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Quafe Convoy Destroyed By Caldari Forces On Caldari-Gallente Border

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Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 850	Posted - 2017.03.25 19:32:52 - [31] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: They said they'll close borders. Then they actually closed borders and enforced it. Now everyone is shocked. You should read the border closure notice more carefully. These were State citizens leaving the State, not Federation citizens entering the State which is what was prohibited. Quote: In addition to this, passage of all Gallente non-capsuleer traffic across the Caldari-Gallente border has been suspended by Caldari Customs, and the Chief Executive Panel has warned Caldari corporations currently engaged in business with Gallente registered organizations that no non-capsuleer traffic will be permitted to cross the border into the State, regardless of any pre-approved customs and immigration documentation. These State citizens were not crossing into the State but into the Federation, which was never prohibited. At first it disgusted me how eager every Caldari pilot was to blame anything other than their own State but, with reflection I have realized that you are all shocked and looking for another explanation and not simply trying to spin a narrative. Well, except for the clear provists but no one I think expects anything at all from them. I pray you Caldari do find another explanation or that there is one now. For the sake of the State and for the sake of those pilots who hoped such things died with Heth. As strength goes.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3199	Posted - 2017.03.25 19:34:44 - [32] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: They said they'll close borders. Then they actually closed borders and enforced it. Now everyone is shocked. There's a little difference between closing the border and, "Welcome to the border. Please stand by for summary execution." That last seems just a tiny bit strange. Usually there's at least a little bit of, like, gun-pointing and comms-yelling before anybody actually starts blowing people up. At least you'd hope so. Well, at least I'd hope so....
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office Electus Matari 767	Posted - 2017.03.25 19:36:27 - [33] - Quote Where did you get the idea that there were none? Let the bridges we burn light the way.
Saya Ishikari Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 590	Posted - 2017.03.25 19:46:02 - [34] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Where did you get the idea that there were none? That's the information we're missing, at this time. One would hope that unarmed freighters would not try to run a blockade if said blockade pointed a few dozen launchers their way and called for a halt. And if there were some vast mitigating circumstance, why hasn't it been used as propaganda at the very least? Personally, I'm hoping to hear more on this soon. "At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3203	Posted - 2017.03.25 19:48:53 - [35] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Where did you get the idea that there were none? I didn't, but that's sort of the tone that's being set. There are questions any way we look at it. If the convoy was ordered to turn back, and didn't, why? If they were just summarily destroyed at the border, why? The whole thing's just bleeding weirdness. It's not so much shocking as ... bizarre. My best current guess is that they were trying to smuggle something out in the most innocuous-looking of innocuous-looking convoys and called the border guards' bluff, hoping the State would rather see them get away than create such an obviously awful public incident. "We're going through. If you want an incident where you're responsible for blowing up a bunch of unarmed transports full of soda bottles and everybody aboard, well, obviously we can't stop you! But that's your call." --Sadly Deceased Convoy Commander, miscalculating. ... that would seem to fit. But there's too little information.
Agiri Falken Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 288	Posted - 2017.03.25 19:53:07 - [36] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Where did you get the idea that there were none? I didn't, but that's sort of the tone that's being set. There are questions any way we look at it. If the convoy was ordered to turn back, and didn't, why? If they were just summarily destroyed at the border, why? The whole thing's just bleeding weirdness. It's not so much shocking as ... bizarre. My best current guess is that they were trying to smuggle something out in the most innocuous-looking of innocuous-looking convoys and called the border guards' bluff, hoping the State would rather see them get away than create such an obviously awful public incident. "We're going through. If you want an incident where you're responsible for blowing up a bunch of unarmed transports full of soda bottles and everybody aboard, well, obviously we can't stop you! But that's your call." --Sadly Deceased Convoy Commander, miscalculating. ... that would seem to fit. But there's too little information. Never. EVER... Try to bluff a serious checkpoint. They're there to keep you from passing, not ensure your safety while doing so. If that was the case, I guarantee whichever freight lugger made that call was never a FedNav man. They're not that stupid. My question now is; Was there any communication at all?
Jade Blackwind 1296	Posted - 2017.03.25 20:11:36 - [37] - Quote I wonder what, or who, actually was in those freighters.
James Syagrius Humble Trader Company 1573	Posted - 2017.03.25 20:29:59 - [38] - Quote Makoto Priano wrote: Let's get past the 'destroyed unarmed freighters' part because that's very easy to get stuck on. Yes, killing 4,000 people on unarmed transports can be a bit distracting. We were discussing bias earlier.... Now I know what you meant and understand your comments were more nuanced, I just wanted to remind you of how easy it is making cheap points on serious comments. I would also invite you to reread the 'excuses' given thus far by our State friends, they basically come down to, 'it's the Federations fault.' GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Aradina Varren Alexylva Paradox 115	Posted - 2017.03.25 20:35:00 - [39] - Quote Not sure which thread you're reading, so far I've seen "There's probably more to this", "The freighter pilots should have ignored warnings", "The customs officials massively overreacted" and "Quafe were trying to smuggle something out". Overall, people are being reasonable. Waiting for more information before jumping to a conclusion. Feels Pretty Soft to Me.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3920	Posted - 2017.03.25 20:40:59 - [40] - Quote Makoto Priano wrote: The sticking point, from a legal perspective, is that the vessel and cargo belong to a Federation-registered corporation. It may be that the closure is interpreted to be not just or personnel, but materiel. Quafe would also happen to be a Caldari registered corporation as far as I'm aware. Somewhat odd in that regard to be sure. But really..... That just makes shooting them even worse.

Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2037	Posted - 2017.03.25 21:06:16 - [41] - Quote I, for one, am surprised that Quafe products are so volatile as to explode with sufficient force, that there would be no survivors from a ship carrying a cargo of Quafe products. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt The Scope Gallente Federation 410	Posted - 2017.03.25 21:15:56 - [42] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: I, for one, am surprised that Quafe products are so volatile as to explode with sufficient force, that there would be no survivors from a ship carrying a cargo of Quafe products. This caught me, too. Even in cruiser-class vessels, a sufficiently destructive event still leaves a few crewmen who were lucky enough to reach secure panic-room bulkheads or otherwise. Someone means to tell me that trade vessels - first off, unsupported by even a meager escort fleet that wouldn't have had to even follow them out - have no security against attack? Do you mean to tell me that seven freighters died so quickly that no one survived? Killing a freighter takes time. Especially if one fleet is trying to down seven, all at the same time, without primary. And if there was primary, the others would have had some time to get to relative safety, or escape pods. So. Just wondering 'bout the whole "let's make sure there aren't survivors" thing. I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Agiri Falken Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 289	Posted - 2017.03.25 21:26:17 - [43] - Quote Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: I, for one, am surprised that Quafe products are so volatile as to explode with sufficient force, that there would be no survivors from a ship carrying a cargo of Quafe products. This caught me, too. Even in cruiser-class vessels, a sufficiently destructive event still leaves a few crewmen who were lucky enough to reach secure panic-room bulkheads or otherwise. Someone means to tell me that trade vessels - first off, unsupported by even a meager escort fleet that wouldn't have had to even follow them out - have no security against attack? Do you mean to tell me that seven freighters died so quickly that no one survived? Killing a freighter takes time. Especially if one fleet is trying to down seven, all at the same time, without primary. And if there was primary, the others would have had some time to get to relative safety, or escape pods. So. Just wondering 'bout the whole "let's make sure there aren't survivors" thing. Know what looks a lot like Quafe? Binary liquids. An out there theory, but it would fit what you're thinking here. It does take a lot to just outright gut an Obelisk, doesn't it? And how didn't anyone get into an escape pod in that time?
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 850	Posted - 2017.03.25 21:55:20 - [44] - Quote Torpedo ships, high power blaster platforms, and supercarriers are all capable of destroying a freighter in seconds. It does not necessarily mean that the State fired upon escape pods that no one escaped, they could simply have not had enough warning. As strength goes.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt The Scope Gallente Federation 413	Posted - 2017.03.25 22:32:55 - [45] - Quote Ayallah wrote: Torpedo ships, high power blaster platforms, and supercarriers are all capable of destroying a freighter in seconds. It does not necessarily mean that the State fired upon escape pods that no one escaped, they could simply have not had enough warning. Doesn't a fleet like that take time to prepare, to assemble, and organize? This would have most likely meant they would have been warned, if not threatened, ahead of time. Things still aren't adding up. I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Jade Blackwind 1296	Posted - 2017.03.25 22:33:08 - [46] - Quote Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: I, for one, am surprised that Quafe products are so volatile as to explode with sufficient force, that there would be no survivors from a ship carrying a cargo of Quafe products. This caught me, too. Even in cruiser-class vessels, a sufficiently destructive event still leaves a few crewmen who were lucky enough to reach secure panic-room bulkheads or otherwise. Someone means to tell me that trade vessels - first off, unsupported by even a meager escort fleet that wouldn't have had to even follow them out - have no security against attack? Do you mean to tell me that seven freighters died so quickly that no one survived? Killing a freighter takes time. Especially if one fleet is trying to down seven, all at the same time, without primary. And if there was primary, the others would have had some time to get to relative safety, or escape pods. So. Just wondering 'bout the whole "let's make sure there aren't survivors" thing. When I was 14, I survived the destruction of a deadspace facility. A case of your generic "civilian in a can". So, just thinking based on my own experience. When a large enough structure, be it an Obelisk, or a Wreathe, or an Angel brothel, explodes, there will be a few survivors in the pods or in the wreck. For a while. If there are none, then a doomsday class weapon was used, or there was no rescue operation at all, or it was withheld for 2+ hours until the survivors were out of oxygen. So. Either those freighters were full of explosives, or our Caldari friends deliberately ensured that there are no one left to tell the tale.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3920	Posted - 2017.03.25 22:51:07 - [47] - Quote Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote: Doesn't a fleet like that take time to prepare, to assemble, and organize? This would have most likely meant they would have been warned, if not threatened, ahead of time. Things still aren't adding up. Capsuleers routinely destroy freighters in seconds all day every day around the trade hubs and routes. Why are you surprised that a force capable of destroying freighters rapidly is deployed on a border between two empires currently at high tensions..... Also surviving in a 'can' in a facility is quite different to surviving in a wreck where the warp core is breached and goes critical. If you aren't in a suit, and don't make a pod... well.... bad things. Compared to the warheads or ammunition that get thrown at things, conventional planetary explosives also aren't significantly damaging. So yeah, not buying into this whole 'they were carrying bombs' thing here.
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 853	Posted - 2017.03.25 23:34:53 - [48] - Quote Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote: Doesn't a fleet like that take time to prepare, to assemble, and organize? This would have most likely meant they would have been warned, if not threatened, ahead of time. Things still aren't adding up. I assume they were already pre-staged at the border. I should mention also that a supercarrier can comfortably alpha strike a freighter. A few seconds worth of warning is not a lot of time especially for the crew of a soft drinks company. These are not combat ships and not capsuleer crews, the fact there were no survivors does not automatically have to mean that there is anything more to this than overwhelming force used. As strength goes.
Teinyhr Ourumur 810	Posted - 2017.03.26 00:00:59 - [49] - Quote Supercarriers aren't standard border security at least where I come from. There were 7 freighters, so certainly some of them would have caught a whiff of what happened to the others and managed to alert and save at least a few of their people. The "no survivors at all" simply smells too damn fishy to completely ignore. Something about this is just not right, but as usual, we just have to wait and see what it was.
Claudia Osyn Non-Hostile Target 2338	Posted - 2017.03.26 00:37:50 - [50] - Quote Well, if nothing else, the market for capsuleer trading between the Federation and the State is solidly in our favor. I wonder just how much Quafe will pay us to make those runs now that nobody else can... A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Charles Cambridge Schmidt The Scope Gallente Federation 414	Posted - 2017.03.26 01:14:00 - [51] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: Well, if nothing else, the market for capsuleer trading between the Federation and the State is solidly in our favor. I wonder just how much Quafe will pay us to make those runs now that nobody else can... EDIT -- I was censored, woe is me. I'll call you what it wouldn't let me, but sterilized: Butthead. I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2038	Posted - 2017.03.26 10:04:12 - [52] - Quote My point is based on principles of naval architecture, and should stand regardless of the firepower used. Compartmentalisation and bulkhead design should mean there would always be some survivors in some compartments of the ship, even in the event of a catastrophic internal explosion. The exception, is extreme volatile cargoes, which could crush internal bulkheads in a catastrophic internal explosion of sufficient force. I have prepared a simple diagram for this lecture. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3116	Posted - 2017.03.26 12:53:45 - [53] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Diana Kim wrote: That will show them how to ignore Caldari orders on Caldari border! Glory to the State! You mean the orders saying 'Federation vessels can't come in'? Because these were Caldari citizens engaged in the still totally legal act of taking ships out of State space. Whaaat? "Caldari citizens"? Because Quaffe said so? Listen to them more, and you'll go massacre babies in the name of Freedom. But you know what, Quaffe got popped. Glory to the State! Arrendis wrote: Sounds like it was the Caldari Navy who needs to learn how to follow orders. Will give lessons about gatecamping for 300m isk/hour. Not to the Navy of course, to you. They know what they are doing. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3116	Posted - 2017.03.26 13:09:08 - [54] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: They said they'll close borders. Then they actually closed borders and enforced it. Now everyone is shocked. Not everyone. Just pro-gallentean oriented pilots. Just as Quafe does a drama from it, so do Makotos, Sayas and other inconvenient for the State personalities. For Caldari, it was just a work on Saturday. Though, admit it, the kills were pretty good! I wish I could catch something like that myself! So, good job! And Glory to the State! Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Salome Arran Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2017.03.26 13:12:36 - [55] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: My point is based on principles of naval architecture, and should stand regardless of the firepower used. Compartmentalisation and bulkhead design should mean there would always be some survivors in some compartments of the ship, even in the event of a catastrophic internal explosion. The exception, is extreme volatile cargoes, which could crush internal bulkheads in a catastrophic internal explosion of sufficient force. I have prepared a simple diagram for this lecture. I can think of a few scenarios where there wouldn't be survivors... But all of them have to do with actual efforts to deliberately make a ship internally unsound, and a literally absolute dedication to zero preparation on the part of every single member of the crew. The cruiser I served on took a magazine hit once. That was a lot of Boom on a MUCH smaller, less heavily reinforced ship. But most of the crew survived, and the ship was still spaceworthy thanks to blowout channels, panels, and internal compartmentalization. So what the HELL were those ships hauling? Or are State missile payloads just THAT deadly?
Deitra Vess Non-Hostile Target 1821	Posted - 2017.03.26 14:04:45 - [56] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Though, admit it, the kills were pretty good! I wish I could catch something like that myself! So, good job! And Glory to the State! You can't land tackle on a freighter? I'll admit several at once is an accomplishment for a single tackle pilot, but i highly doubt it was one tackle pilot.
Julianus Soter Moira. Villore Accords 380	Posted - 2017.03.26 14:26:08 - [57] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: My point is based on principles of naval architecture, and should stand regardless of the firepower used. Compartmentalisation and bulkhead design should mean there would always be some survivors in some compartments of the ship, even in the event of a catastrophic internal explosion. The exception, is extreme volatile cargoes, which could crush internal bulkheads in a catastrophic internal explosion of sufficient force. I have prepared a simple diagram for this lecture. The alternative, of course, is that there were survivors, and that they were detained and relocated to holding facilities without any notification to Quafe Company. For interrogation. I have posted a denouncement of this action on the official Kyonoke Inquest communications channels. I expect all loyal members of Wiyrkomi and Ishukone corporation to immediately denounce this inhuman and savage act of interstellar piracy. Regards, Soter Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 732	Posted - 2017.03.26 15:00:17 - [58] - Quote Julianus Soter wrote: I expect all loyal members of Wiyrkomi and Ishukone corporation to immediately denounce this inhuman and savage act of interstellar piracy. Or.. what, exactly? I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2039	Posted - 2017.03.26 15:13:36 - [59] - Quote Jev North wrote: Julianus Soter wrote: I expect all loyal members of Wiyrkomi and Ishukone corporation to immediately denounce this inhuman and savage act of interstellar piracy. Or.. what, exactly? Or a Strong Letter of Condemnation will be sent to you. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Julianus Soter Moira. Villore Accords 380	Posted - 2017.03.26 15:18:09 - [60] - Quote History will judge those that stand beside those that killed the people in those freighters. I need not lift a finger. Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/



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