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DRDNOUGHT
Virtual Warriors
Axiom Vocation Alliance
14
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Posted - 2017.03.28 17:16:07 -
[1] - Quote
A New Beginning
So, you like playing Eve-Online ?
Is it because you like to shoot stuff, getting the kill is fun yes ?
Does that include shooting guys who don't want to PVP ?
Care Bears or industrialists who play the game for the mining and building stuff or trading ?
They have the right to play eve too don't they ?
Who said they had to be PVP'ers to Play Eve-Online ?
All games, just like real life have risks, the ganker can sneak up on you at any moment, social misfits or someone enjoying their freedom to act in a way they could never get away with in real life. That's the fun behind immersing one self in the virtual world so as to get away with the actions and activities we could never experience in real life.
Now think about this, If you where to go onto Face Book or Twitter, choose an individual or individuals and continuously harass them, troll the life out of them and generally make their lives a misery to the point they couldn't continue to use those social media sites....
Would you be allowed to get away with it ?
Wait, the ganker rarely bothers the same guys more than once, a couple of times in rare circumstances. Surely this doesn't relate to them.....that may be correct.
War deccers, now that's a different matter.
Many war deccers will declare war on corps who have no experience or no interest in pvp. Corps with new players with low skills and no experience. Forcing them to take the only option available to them and that is to stop playing till the war dec is finished.
What then ? A new war dec, same guys or different ones, maybe two together.
How does our player deal with this one....that's right.....he stops playing again till the war dec is over.
Are you now seeing a pattern.....how long is this guy going to put up with this....Alpha or Omega no difference.....if he can't enjoy his game he is going to quit. FACT !
And they do Quit, I know, I've been playing now for 12 years and the numbers of guys I've Known who have stopped playing for that reason alone is phenomenal.
Even Players that join with PVP as their career path are not going to be skilled enough for several months to be able to defend themselves in a war situation. No amount of enthusiasm is going to overcome the boredom of being station bound or being unable to play due to a wardec that could potentially last for weeks.
Me? doesn't bother me, I have 4 accounts, always one of them in a situation where there is no war, so not a problem for me to play.
Not quite the same for "Joe New Guy" though is it, or the guy who doesn't want to, or is unable to pay for multiple accounts.
So why is CCP sponsoring activities that are driving a large proportion of their customer base out of the game.
But the war deccer corps and alliances will complain if you try and change it. The bullies will always complain that they have the right to beat up on the new guys or the nerdy guys or those with different interests to their own, just for their own pleasure.
That is ok is it ? .... No ?
So what are you going to do about it.
Thats income that CCP will lose or isn't going to see, it's also a lot of potential lifelong friends and corp mates that we will never meet or see again, gone, Just so some bullies can have their fun.
OK let's look at this a bit more carefully, EVE-ONLINE is a very diverse game that needs to satisfy a great many people and in many ways it does. On the Empire War declaration it falls down.
The new solo players are protected, but as we all know, few players enjoy playing solo permanently. Eve's strength lies in it's team play. So the new player needs to join a Corp / Alliance where he can play and learn alongside other players. It's at this point he/they become vulnerable to wars and we could lose them. There is also the situation where a war dec runs continuously week after week....yes it does happen....my record is over 6 months.....crazy isn't it. Well you can imagine how many guys gave up and left the game during that period from my corp alone.
we need an invulnerability system where a corp or alliance can only be wardecced a set number of times in any time period. wardec maximum of one week, then grace period before any more wardecs can be declared unless mutually agreed between parties. Suggest one war dec per month then no decs at all until the new period. Plus get out of jail facility...fixed payment to Concord ( bullies don't get a dime) to declare the war dec void. This should make the bully boys think again before they go wasting their isk declaring war on easy targets. Shouldn't effect the pvp corps they can carry on fighting their wars to their hearts content. The Industrials, traders and PVE'ers can do their thing in relative safety as was originally intended within the bounds of High Sec Empire.
Over to you CCP
Time to start backing "all" your players instead of just the ones with the biggest voices.
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Moonlit Raid
State War Academy
Caldari State
324
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Posted - 2017.03.28 17:19:32 -
[2] - Quote
Take your feminist liberalist bullshit somewhere else. I hear Canada is a good place to start if you're looking for somewhere to be a massive pussy.
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
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DRDNOUGHT
Virtual Warriors
Axiom Vocation Alliance
14
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Posted - 2017.03.28 17:24:29 -
[3] - Quote
That pretty much confirms what I have written about, doesn't it.
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Kieron VonDeux
224
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Posted - 2017.03.28 17:27:12 -
[4] - Quote
The point of Eve Online when it was released was that it pushed the boundaries of acceptable game-play.
That was the point, and why Eve remains that to this day.
It isn't for everyone though. |
DRDNOUGHT
Virtual Warriors
Axiom Vocation Alliance
14
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Posted - 2017.03.28 17:31:45 -
[5] - Quote
Agreed, my post was about those that wanted to play, but where pretty much hounded out of the game by empire wars that are running out of control. |
Kieron VonDeux
224
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Posted - 2017.03.28 17:38:10 -
[6] - Quote
DRDNOUGHT wrote:Agreed, my post was about those that wanted to play, but where pretty much hounded out of the game by empire wars that are running out of control.
And where that line should be has been a running battle between the fascist masochists and the liberal care-bears since launch.
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DRDNOUGHT
Virtual Warriors
Axiom Vocation Alliance
14
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Posted - 2017.03.28 17:42:10 -
[7] - Quote
The PVP guys have many ways they can practise their art without bullying the Care Bears and new guys, Low Sec and Null where designed with them in mind. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
20789
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Posted - 2017.03.28 17:43:26 -
[8] - Quote
All corporations and alliances have the same risks
All corporations and alliances are responsible for their own safety,
be it through force of arms or leveraging your isk generation capacity,
you can and you should defend anything you want to keep.
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
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DRDNOUGHT
Virtual Warriors
Axiom Vocation Alliance
14
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Posted - 2017.03.28 17:49:50 -
[9] - Quote
you talk about the expectations of a seasoned player like you or myself, surely to guarantee the future of our game we need to keep those new players and allow them to develop into guys that can stand on their own two feet.....that's what empire is about....they have the options there if they want to war but should be protected if they don't..... |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
20789
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Posted - 2017.03.28 17:58:02 -
[10] - Quote
I talk of the expectations placed upon a corporation
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
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Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - Razorback Roadhouse
72
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Posted - 2017.03.28 17:58:38 -
[11] - Quote
CCP's own survey has showed that new players who have been ganked are more likely to stay than those who mine all days in peace. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
636
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:03:26 -
[12] - Quote
Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:CCP's own survey has showed that new players who have been ganked are more likely to stay than those who mine all days in peace.
[Topic closed]
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
334
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:05:11 -
[13] - Quote
DRDNOUGHT wrote:you talk about the expectations of a seasoned player like you or myself, surely to guarantee the future of our game we need to keep those new players and allow them to develop into guys that can stand on their own two feet.....that's what empire is about....they have the options there if they want to war but should be protected if they don't.....
Think of the children...
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3408
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:05:58 -
[14] - Quote
This is a game. It's pretend.
If someone is getting bullied in RL... harassed... even unreasonably Doxxed, there is a process to deal with it and the offending party will probably get banned. That's as it should be.
In game, however, you are just meat for the grinder. Capsuleers will try to take what is "yours". You're going to get blown up over and over again. If you need security beyond CONCORD, you need to make that happen yourself. I agree that it's not always easy, but as the saying goes 'if it were easy everybody would be doing it.' In a game where we compete for resources, position, and pretty much everything, 'easy' just isn't possible. Anything that starts out 'easy' players will make hard.
I mean... that's a fundamental design principal of EvE.
You should get it into your head that "bullying" is not "a thing" in game. There are CCP game rules, there is the EULA, there are game mechanics, and that is pretty much it. Out of game is an entirely different matter, but in-game space is really dangerous. That's also as it should be.
Signatures should be used responsibly...
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Jacques d'Orleans
3037
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:07:41 -
[15] - Quote
I'll take some cheese to the whine.
Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
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MadMuppet
A Better Corp Name
1288
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:12:04 -
[16] - Quote
If you fail to realize that the entire success of this game and its living economy are based on everybody having a gun to their head then I am very sorry to tell you it is true. To allow players anymore protection than they have now will destabilize the game.
This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.
"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
3804
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:14:39 -
[17] - Quote
Calm down miner.
As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining...
I mean why would anyone just start to excavate ore without even asking who owns the place? Seams a bit strange to me if you then come to the forums because your illegal equipment was confiscated.
Who is the real criminal here?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2716
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:18:33 -
[18] - Quote
welcome to eve where nothing is risk free, honestly that is really the biggest thing that makes eve interesting to many people.
I do feel a bit bad for new players that don't know any better and end up in a worthless corp, however I feel like they probably wouldn't have lasted long anyways.
I'd say something about adding a warning, but most people don't seem to read those either.
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
62
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:24:37 -
[19] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Calm down miner.
As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining...
I mean why would anyone just start to excavate ore without even asking who owns the place? Seams a bit strange to me if you then come to the forums because your illegal equipment was confiscated.
Who is the real criminal here?
You know, I actually like CODE, but this role playing stuff outside of the game is just weird. |
Jacques d'Orleans
3038
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:34:15 -
[20] - Quote
You being a player since 2005 and after checking your and your Corps/Alliance ZKillboards your OP makes absolutely no sense at all.
So what was it? RMTed Account or bought at the Character Bazar or just a YouTube level troll attempt?
Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
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DRDNOUGHT
Virtual Warriors
Axiom Vocation Alliance
14
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:35:10 -
[21] - Quote
you guys all have different points of view and that is what Eve is all about, My point is that guys who come into eve and then are driven out by more experienced players before they get the chance to mature in game is losing potential real life income for ccp and fellow players for the future.....once we have done our time we can all understand the ups and downs ins and outs of Eve.... We don't need unbound empire wars to enjoy our game play. |
DRDNOUGHT
Virtual Warriors
Axiom Vocation Alliance
14
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:41:09 -
[22] - Quote
Im the original Player, I have no need to hide behind forum alts, and yes I've been there too and have all the T shirts. My introduction to this subject was my difficulty in keeping newer members while in empire due to the excessive amount of random war decs we received. Some of those guys where nice people but they didn't see the sense of not being able to play the game fully. Advice is allways given but most choose to switch off and wait till the dec ends....until one day it didn't end........ |
Lara Agnon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:41:16 -
[23] - Quote
Why do you want to stay in highsec? Go to low or null or live with all the highsec game mechanics.
When I started eve I joined a nullsec corp just after finishing the career agents - more coincidence than my own choice. But now I can tell everyone that it is possible to go to null right away. In Pvp I wasn't worth more than bait and flew back in my pod more often than not. But not everyone wants to solo pvp anyway. For pve, I couln't do more than salvage the wreckage. But we all had fun together.
So instead of whining start your career right away.
If you do not like pvp - why join a pvp-centric game in the first place?
As was stated before, eve is not for everyone and imho it should be just like that. If you change that, it will be like any other game and die. |
Jacques d'Orleans
3038
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:42:47 -
[24] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Calm down miner.
As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining...
I mean why would anyone just start to excavate ore without even asking who owns the place? Seams a bit strange to me if you then come to the forums because your illegal equipment was confiscated.
Who is the real criminal here? You know, I actually like CODE, but this role playing stuff outside of the game is just weird.
There is nothing weird about the most honorable Agents of his Excellency James 315, the Saviour of High Sec.
They are the beacon of light for every law-abiding citizen of New Eden!
Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
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Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University
Ivy League
397
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:44:56 -
[25] - Quote
I'm willing to bet that just about every single person who plays eve for any length of time has been ganked, or caught in a gate camp, etc at least once in their eve career.
I'm also willing to bet that there are plenty of people who tried the game out, never lost a ship, but still left the game.
so if 100% of people who keep with the game have been ganked.
but 100%> of people who leave the game have been ganked. its pretty clear that pvp itself, consentual or otherwise, is at worst not the primary factor in people leaving the game. (otherwise no one would be left playing) or at best is actually a positive factor towards retaining players. (which is what ccps own studies have shown)
op, if the game isn't for you, then it simply isnt the right fit for you. there is nothing wrong with that. but don't go trying to break the game that thousands of other players have been enjoying the way it is for almost two decades, just because its not a good fit for you. |
Djsaeu
Xx-illuminati-xX
55
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:49:53 -
[26] - Quote
Batman and Robin did what? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
20794
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:50:07 -
[27] - Quote
DRDNOUGHT wrote:
Im the original Player, I have no need to hide behind forum alts, and yes I've been there too and have all the T shirts. My introduction to this subject was my difficulty in keeping newer members while in empire due to the excessive amount of random war decs we received. Some of those guys where nice people but they didn't see the sense of not being able to play the game fully. Advice is allways given but most choose to switch off and wait till the dec ends....until one day it didn't end........
And?
Those newbros are a resource just like everything else,
if you takeGÇï newbros in then it's your responsibility to defend them or facilitate them doing so themselves.
Ffs there's literally a handful of aggressive entitys in empire that leave the hubs, if you can't keep your newbros alive you don't deserve them.
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
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Sere O'Asis
Summer Evenings and Autumn Skies
161
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:51:48 -
[28] - Quote
DRDNOUGHT wrote:you talk about the expectations of a seasoned player like you or myself, surely to guarantee the future of our game we need to keep those new players and allow them to develop into guys that can stand on their own two feet.....that's what empire is about....they have the options there if they want to war but should be protected if they don't.....
but should be protected if they don't
I understand your position, and many in this game agree new players, many players, should be helped. That help currently encompasses many forms. The nullsec newbro centric groups, like Pandemic Horde, or help chats, like EVE an Hour on discord, managed by Kael Decadence, or Mike Azariah's "free ships for rookies" initiative. I, myself, have spent hours of my game time chatting with new players in and around the rookie systems, and I have witnessed many others, like Xadiran do the same.
But, you, you have an opportunity, and the drive, evidenced by this post, to help in a way most of us do not. You are the CEO of a corporation, in an active alliance. Why not organize like minded pilots within your group and take the fight to those you feel need reining in. Why not use the tools CCP has provided and war dec the highsec merc corps you feel so strongly about, right now, while advocating for these changes from CCP.
Help protect new players by fighting the corps you feel are abusing the current system and alienating new players. War dec them. Get in the trenches and fight back. You've got the numbers to fight. Organize and fight.
Don't wait around for CCP to correct something you feel needs attending, when you have the tools at hand to take effective action yourself. Go into a rookie system, talk to the new players there, find out who needs to be war decced and explain what you're planning on doing. That would provide an invaluable experience to those you want to help, by showing them how to help themselves in this game.
You are a CEO and you have numbers, and game experience, and passion. Do it!
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DRDNOUGHT
Virtual Warriors
Axiom Vocation Alliance
14
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Posted - 2017.03.28 18:53:27 -
[29] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:I'm willing to bet that just about every single person who plays eve for any length of time has been ganked, or caught in a gate camp, etc at least once in their eve career.
I'm also willing to bet that there are plenty of people who tried the game out, never lost a ship, but still left the game.
so if 100% of people who keep with the game have been ganked.
but 100%> of people who leave the game have been ganked. its pretty clear that pvp itself, consentual or otherwise, is at worst not the primary factor in people leaving the game. (otherwise no one would be left playing) or at best is actually a positive factor towards retaining players. (which is what ccps own studies have shown)
op, if the game isn't for you, then it simply isnt the right fit for you. there is nothing wrong with that. but don't go trying to break the game that thousands of other players have been enjoying the way it is for almost two decades, just because its not a good fit for you.
I suggest you read my original post again, this time all the way through. My post is not about gankers and pirates, its about the rules of war deccing and the loss of potential players who never got the chance to experience the game to its full or those that where unable to play as they wished due to un-ending empire wars that where not of their choosing. Nothing about breaking the game.
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Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University
Ivy League
398
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Posted - 2017.03.28 19:03:55 -
[30] - Quote
DRDNOUGHT wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:I'm willing to bet that just about every single person who plays eve for any length of time has been ganked, or caught in a gate camp, etc at least once in their eve career.
I'm also willing to bet that there are plenty of people who tried the game out, never lost a ship, but still left the game.
so if 100% of people who keep with the game have been ganked.
but 100%> of people who leave the game have been ganked. its pretty clear that pvp itself, consentual or otherwise, is at worst not the primary factor in people leaving the game. (otherwise no one would be left playing) or at best is actually a positive factor towards retaining players. (which is what ccps own studies have shown)
op, if the game isn't for you, then it simply isnt the right fit for you. there is nothing wrong with that. but don't go trying to break the game that thousands of other players have been enjoying the way it is for almost two decades, just because its not a good fit for you. I suggest you read my original post again, this time all the way through. My post is not about gankers and pirates, its about the rules of war deccing and the loss of potential players who never got the chance to experience the game to its full or those that where unable to play as they wished due to un-ending empire wars that where not of their choosing. Nothing about breaking the game.
War deccing IS a part of the game, one that not everyone actually does get a chance to experience.
Eve is a hostile universe, and everywhere you go (with the exception of HS) you are CONSTANTLY under threat, trade hubs are dangerous for EVERYONE not just new players, in low-sec and null-sec, you are never safe unless you are alone or in a system full of blues. and not always even then. In WH's you don't even have the advantage of local for intel making things even riskier again.
coddling players, and keeping them safe does absolutely nothing to prepare them for the game outside of HS. where you are constantly under threat. wardecs and gankers give you that opportinity, with the added layer of safety that at least in HS you only really need to keep a watch out for known gankers (who should be set red to you anyways) and wartargets.
if you do get decced, use it as a teaching experience, teach your newbros how to operate with hostiles in the area, teach them how to fight back, or if you don't have the numbers or the skill to fight back effectively, teach them that sometimes relocation is the best option and move somewhere safer (I practically guarantee you that unless you have done something major to **** the deccers off personally, they aren't going to follow you to another region) teach them how to use out of corp alts to do their shopping. if they don't have out of corp alts, then set one up yourself and offer corp logistics and hauling.
if you doing all of that, and they still leave, then they never would have survived in eve to begin with.
and if you are unable, or unwilling to provide that, then maybe you shouldn't be leading a newbro corp. |
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