but should be protected if they don't

I understand your position, and many in this game agree new players, many players, should be helped. That help currently encompasses many forms. The nullsec newbro centric groups, like Pandemic Horde, or help chats, like EVE an Hour on discord, managed by Kael Decadence, or Mike Azariah's "free ships for rookies" initiative. I, myself, have spent hours of my game time chatting with new players in and around the rookie systems, and I have witnessed many others, like Xadiran do the same.

But, you, you have an opportunity, and the drive, evidenced by this post, to help in a way most of us do not. You are the CEO of a corporation, in an active alliance. Why not organize like minded pilots within your group and take the fight to those you feel need reining in. Why not use the tools CCP has provided and war dec the highsec merc corps you feel so strongly about, right now, while advocating for these changes from CCP.

Help protect new players by fighting the corps you feel are abusing the current system and alienating new players. War dec them. Get in the trenches and fight back. You've got the numbers to fight. Organize and fight.

Don't wait around for CCP to correct something you feel needs attending, when you have the tools at hand to take effective action yourself. Go into a rookie system, talk to the new players there, find out who needs to be war decced and explain what you're planning on doing. That would provide an invaluable experience to those you want to help, by showing them how to help themselves in this game.

You are a CEO and you have numbers, and game experience, and passion. Do it!

coddling players, and keeping them safe does absolutely nothing to prepare them for the game outside of HS. where you are constantly under threat. wardecs and gankers give you that opportinity, with the added layer of safety that at least in HS you only really need to keep a watch out for known gankers (who should be set red to you anyways) and wartargets.

[quote=DRDNOUGHT][quote=Bjorn Tyrson]
War deccing IS a part of the game, one that not everyone actually does get a chance to experience.
Eve is a hostile universe, and everywhere you go (with the exception of HS) you are CONSTANTLY under threat, trade hubs are dangerous for EVERYONE not just new players, in low-sec and null-sec, you are never safe unless you are alone or in a system full of blues. and not always even then. In WH's you don't even have the advantage of local for intel making things even riskier again.

coddling players, and keeping them safe does absolutely nothing to prepare them for the game outside of HS. where you are constantly under threat. wardecs and gankers give you that opportinity, with the added layer of safety that at least in HS you only really need to keep a watch out for known gankers (who should be set red to you anyways) and wartargets.

if you do get decced, use it as a teaching experience, teach your newbros how to operate with hostiles in the area, teach them how to fight back, or if you don't have the numbers or the skill to fight back effectively, teach them that sometimes relocation is the best option and move somewhere safer (I practically guarantee you that unless you have done something major to **** the deccers off personally, they aren't going to follow you to another region) teach them how to use out of corp alts to do their shopping. if they don't have out of corp alts, then set one up yourself and offer corp logistics and hauling.

if you doing all of that, and they still leave, then they never would have survived in eve to begin with.
and if you are unable, or unwilling to provide that, then maybe you shouldn't be leading a newbro corp.

Calm down miner.

As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining...

I mean why would anyone just start to excavate ore without even asking who owns the place? Seams a bit strange to me if you then come to the forums because your illegal equipment was confiscated.

Who is the real criminal here?

Your advice is sound and you have my respect for it, in the real world though fighting back and even if you win, attracts more war decs and defeats the object..... Ive done it many times in my eve career.

During the many times I've spent time in Empire I and my corp/alliance has been involved in many wars, some we lost some we won. There was never a problem beyond the normal inconvenience it caused. But when they go to the extremes they do now then that is not I believe what was originally intended. Permanent wardecs happen regularly for one and that is not what the game was originally intended for....these guys are trying to recreate Null sec in empire the only difference is they can pick and choose their victims. You have played eve almost as long as me so you should remember how it was originally. War decs happened and then they finished, and everyone went about their normal business.

I'm grateful for all your opinions guys, but they are based on your own experiences, most of you want to pvp....hell I want to pvp too.......I don't need empire to do it I do it low sec or null. I also agree war decs are a learning experience for those that wish to embrace it.....none of you mention about the players that play eve for some of the other careers available. Its all well and good to belittle these guys and tell them to get out if its too hot for them. there are a lot of them, how many industrial corporations do you have in your alliances....yes most can shoot too, many don't. Im not suggesting big changes here just idea's on improvements that may help to keep some of those players in game who otherwise would move on.

And where that line should be has been a running battle between the fascist masochists and the liberal care-bears since launch.

Hi!

As a seasoned meat for meat-grinding-machine I must agree with DRDNOUGHT (don't stop reading yet though )

I think many of the posts in this thread are using "ganking" and "wardec" almost interchangable. Being ganked is the spirit of the EvE and is desired. Having ad-hoc fight - even lost one - is exciting. You loose you (sometimes) learn you fly again in too expensive ship in to low/null you get podded again (we will eventually get you Jane Bourne!) The gatecamps suicide gangs and roams I see just as variation of ganking. It is FUN regardless which side you are on.

Now, when it come to the wardecs things aren't that smooth. Usually on one side we have one of big grinding seasoned corps. On the other side we have a small gang who have no chance to really fight back. Even if there are some seasoned players capable of serious pvp in this corp assembling carebears to be able to put some serious fight agains well-coordinated-pvp-gang is just not realistic. Also most of the fights are just not winnable due to amount of resource each side can muster (regarding both number of accounts and pure isk). In short best option if you don't want to get frustrated by impossible fights is just avoid them. But f you can't play after few weeks at most you start to ask "why am I paying for that"?

Being ganked and having fights will make player to stay and play. Constantly hitting the wall of wdec most likely will not. I would say wdecs in current shape ARE broken and ARE harming game. If this is sandbox why we don't have orthogonal mechanic to wardec? Have you ever read about peacedec idea ?

o111
Alioth.

Am I late for "will someone just think of the children New Players, and by children New Players I mean me!!!" thread # 1,905,312?

I... Im not suggesting big changes here just idea's on improvements that may help to keep some of those players in game who otherwise would move on.

Am I late for "will someone just think of the children New Players, and by children New Players I mean me!!!" thread # 1,905,312?

Thanks for the interesting link! Let me just say that I agree that even hi-sec should not be 100% safe yet I also don't think we should have mechanics which - from my perspective - are just supporting lazy griefers ... There are probably better ways to make hi sec interesting place Yulai incident Although it would seem this particular one was not warmly welcomed by the CCP ... My argument would be - why we have invicible concord and annoying wdecs? Aren't these kind of contradictory? Wouldn't that make hisec more interesting (and still bearable for carebears) if there would be no wdecs but concord would not be as efficient in preventing gankers?

o111

/.../
whats stopping the ceo of one corp from reaching out to the ceo of another that is currently under the wardec and joining forces? and another, and another.
wardecs go both ways, by opening up a bunch of targets for themselves, these corps are also opening themselves up to even more reprisal.
/.../
there is absolutely nothing stopping HS corps under threat of wardec from doing the exact same thing.

hell even if those corps can't put together enough of a combat fleet themselves, surely between the combined wallets of 4 or 5 corps they can come up with enough isk to hire some mercs to come to their aid.
/.../
And why is it that HS is the only place where "oh but we would have to move" is seen as a bad thing?
in low and null, if a bigger fish moves into your pond, you either stay and fight or you get pushed out and find somewhere else to settle.
.

I also don't think we should have mechanics which - from my perspective - are just supporting lazy griefers

That was well written.

Still a strange approach if you want to keep as many new
players as possible.

This is after all a game, not a Navy Seals recruiting program.

Seems CCP is struggling, should we stick to the original
concept or try to make it more compelling.