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(#15 - 2007.04) BMBE Shareholder Report (version 2)

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TornSoul BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.06 23:00:00 - [1] www.BIG-EVE.com/BMBE This is the fiftteenth BMBE shareholder report. (And it's yet again on time) Advertisement Dividend BMBE re-investment Average- and "End of Period" loans amounts Action Report BMBE Capital Advertisement From the start of May the BMBE has started advertising on http://www.eve-files.com and http://ineve.net The total expense of this is 300M ISK, and will be subtracted from the profit of May (ie. not this time), before dividend etc is calculated. The expense is monthly - And we will continue the arrangement, if it's felt that it helps the BMBE businees. And in that case, we will try to broker a discount on the price for a long term arrangement. Dividend April dividend : 2,778,252,200 ISK This equals 1,389,126.10 ISK per share Dividend will be paid out in the comming week Worth noticing is that this is the 5th month in a row with dividends in the 3B range. BMBE re-investment April BMBE re-investment : 1,389,126,100 ISK Average- and "End of Period" loans amounts Average : 41,395,833,333 ISK End of Period : 38,875,000,000 Action Report 2 new loans 1 loan refinanced 1 loan paid out in full BIG Lottery
TornSoul BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.06 23:00:00 - [2] BMBE Capital Wow... Just wow... What a circus the last couple of days huh Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: David Brooks, New York Times ... The conflict of interest charge is out of proportion to the hubbub. But scandals are like that - they are never about what they purport to be about. ... Most scandals are a pretense for members of an establishment to destroy people they don't like. In most scandals, people adjust their standards of rectitude, depending on whether they support or oppose the person at issue. The subject's enemies whip themselves into a fever of theatrical outrage, and the subject's defenders summon up fits of indignation at the lies of the accusers. Scandals are the playgrounds for partisans, and everybody else gets to play the role of junior high school bully, ganging up on whoever seems weakest and most alone. We'll here it is from the horses mouth then. Yes - A 30B ISK loan has defaulted, and the collateral was 2 Skiff BPO's. This was announced nearly a year ago here : (#4 - 2006.05) BMBE Shareholder Report Granted - Not in as much detail as now done. And in hindsight, which famously is 20/20, that was a grave mistake. Most seemed to be more concerned about the new dividend split method at the time however. I'll have to quote shar again.. Originally by: Shar Tegral however this knowledge wasn't secret. It just wasn't flaunted. Major difference. A distinct difference. As illustrated on this forum, it was known by many people, namely those that had asked the right questions. Now why havent I been more open about this in the past? Mostly becuase nothing have happened... - ie. the prints havent been sold. Posting each month that the prints still hadnt been sold, seems kinda moot. Apparently not everyone seems to think that. The only thing that has really happened is that the prints have been further researched, and we've tried to make a bit of ISK selling some of the ships (see below for numbers). Now, I cant quite figure out what the forum mob here is most upset about: The fact that the defaulted loan hasnt been publiced more or The insinuation that I should have lied about it. The first I cant do any more about than I've done in this post, ie. spell it out for everyone to see, and admit that it's been a grave mistake not earlier having plasted this all over the place. The second however, I can, and will do something about. But not in this post. You should however be able to find the relevant post easily... But let me just conclude that bit with saying that I have never lied, scammed, stolen or engaged in any other "illegal" activities in my time in EVE. Nor will I ever. Let me conclude with the numbers 101,440,000,000 ISK Total value of all shares sold 9,157,328,100 ISK total re-invested in the BMBE 1,300,000,000 ISK made from the skiff BPO's sofar ================================================== 111,897,328,100 ISK Total Subtract from that the defaulted loan and you get 81,897,328,100 ISK Total To that the value of the two Skiff BPO's should be added. This is the total capital that the BMBE has available for loans as of this writting. In case of liquidation this makes each share (not counting the skiff prints for simplicity) worth 40,948,664 ISK If you are one of the lucky ones having had shares since the beginning, you will per share have made 13,637,328 ISK in dividends Total beeing 54,585,992 ISK So if you paid below that amount for your, share, then you won't loose any ISK, and will even make a little bit. Ofc, the later you've gotten your shares (and hence had less dividend) the less of a chance you have of not loosing a bit of ISK. That's all folks. BIG Lottery
TornSoul BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.06 23:01:00 - [3] reserved BIG Lottery
Tami Auryn Natural Evolution	Posted - 2007.05.06 23:09:00 - [4] 1st :) reserved It's about time, never on time tss tss
TornSoul BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.06 23:16:00 - [5] Originally by: Tami Auryn 1st :) reserved It's about time, never on time tss tss It's on time. Go back to your troll cave until you have learned to tell the time. On time = First weekend of a new month. We still have that so STFU. BIG Lottery
Rthor Gallente Smugglers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.06 23:38:00 - [6] Not even an "I am sorry" and back to attack mode.
TornSoul BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.06 23:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Rthor Edited by: Rthor on 06/05/2007 23:48:57 Not even an "I am sorry" and back to attack mode. Rhtor - Yes I'll attack this particular individual, it's simply paying back in kind. Be civil to me, and you'll get civil back. Tami however has long long long ago given up on that. Originally by: Rthor But I think that the numbers you give are not what they are purported to be. What I think people are asking is how much money is currently in the bank and not how much money was invested in it over the year. How much ISK is currently in the back is what I have posted 81,897,328,100 ISK Total Some of that is on loan, as can be read by the End of Period : 38,875,000,000 ISK amount BIG Lottery
Rthor Gallente Smugglers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:03:00 - [8] The reason why I am asking is that you can simply add available cash to current loans and get a number. Is that number the same or within a few billions of what you calculated the value of BMBE to be?
TornSoul BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:08:00 - [9] Edited by: TornSoul on 07/05/2007 00:07:04 Rthor - The ISK is kept in my wallet (and Ray's). The only way to find out the value of the BMBE is to calculate it - I have other ISK in my wallet as well. So it's not a matter of "seeing how much is there" and then add it to what is on loan. Hope that clears it up. For what it's worth. To minimize the risk of me screwing up the books (for calculating the BMBE ISK) I'm actually doing two seperate books - Each set up differently. The idea beeing, a mistake done in one, will be cought, as it then wont give the same numbers as the other. BIG Lottery
Firid Soulbane Empyreum	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:30:00 - [10] Quote: Total BMBE capital now : 102.788B ISK Taken from BMBE report #6 How can you report that the total capital is 102.788b isk when its not?
TornSoul BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Firid Soulbane Quote: Total BMBE capital now : 102.788B ISK Taken from BMBE report #6 How can you report that the total capital is 102.788b isk when its not? Good question. If anything it should have said "worth" and not capital - The skiff's counting as "paper ISK" - still having their "book value" (which they still do) as they arent liquidated. One of the reasons why I havent put any value on them in the above - To avoid that differentation. But what I posted there should definatly not have been posted as it was - It's misleading. My apologies for that. BIG Lottery
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Firid Soulbane Quote: Total BMBE capital now : 102.788B ISK Taken from BMBE report #6 How can you report that the total capital is 102.788b isk when its not? Tornsoul, can you fix your numbers? --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:46:00 - [13] Originally by: TornSoul I'll have to quote shar again.. Originally by: Shar Tegral however this knowledge wasn't secret. It just wasn't flaunted. Major difference. A distinct difference. As illustrated on this forum, it was known by many people, namely those that had asked the right questions. TS, that's crap and you know it. If it's something that doesn't need to be kept a secret, then clearly there's no problem posting it on the forum. Otherwise if it needs to be kept a secret, why are you telling your buddies? Small investors seem to be getting shafted here hard; we're being marginalized for some reason, probably because it's easier. Every last one of us that own shares in BMBE deserve the same access to the same information as everyone else, anything else is dishonest and immoral. Withholding this information from selective people is selectively lying by acting as if you have no other information that you can state. Quote: Now, I cant quite figure out what the forum mob here is most upset about: The fact that the defaulted loan hasnt been publiced more or The insinuation that I should have lied about it. Why does it need to be either/or? It's both. Quote: But let me just conclude that bit with saying that I have never lied, scammed, stolen or engaged in any other "illegal" activities in my time in EVE. Nor will I ever. You lied. Your intentions may not have been mustache-twisting evil, but you lied by selectively withholding information. Quote: If you are one of the lucky ones having had shares since the beginning, you will per share have made 13,637,328 ISK in dividends Total beeing 54,585,992 ISK So if you paid below that amount for your, share, then you won't loose any ISK, and will even make a little bit. Ofc, the later you've gotten your shares (and hence had less dividend) the less of a chance you have of not loosing a bit of ISK. That's all folks. Gee, a whole 8% return on my investment in nearly a year and a half; I could have purchased a fleet of suicide Kessies and blown up T1 indys and have made more money than this. I trusted you as the custodian of my money, I want to know how you think it's acceptable to lose 30% of the capital and still charge a management fee. I want you to be held responsible, because quite frankly you're doing everything you can to avoid it. Oh, and how much money have you lost from this whole thing? Do you hold any shares that are still underwater like the rest of us, or are you in a position that you're shareless and just enjoying the nice payoff that is your management fee? If you don't have any risk in this operation, then you're not acting in the best interests of the rest of us who do. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
TornSoul BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:53:00 - [14] Originally by: Verite Rendition I trusted you as the custodian of my money, I want to know how you think it's acceptable to lose 30% of the capital and still charge a management fee. I want you to be held responsible, because quite frankly you're doing everything you can to avoid it. Oh, and how much money have you lost from this whole thing? Do you hold any shares that are still underwater like the rest of us, or are you in a position that you're shareless and just enjoying the nice payoff that is your management fee? If you don't have any risk in this operation, then you're not acting in the best interests of the rest of us who do. Firstly - It took an enourmous amount of shareholder preassure before I even agreed to use t2 BPO's as collateral. There has been many ups and downs in the T2 BPO market... I really really really didnt want to do it - It's just so damn risky. But I did it, and the risk hit us right smack in the face. We ourself have a good sized share amount. At a guess I'd think we are in the top 5 of major shareholders. So yes this influences us as well. BIG Lottery
Firid Soulbane Empyreum	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:56:00 - [15] Originally by: TornSoul Originally by: Firid Soulbane Quote: Total BMBE capital now : 102.788B ISK Taken from BMBE report #6 How can you report that the total capital is 102.788b isk when its not? Good question. If anything it should have said "worth" and not capital - The skiff's counting as "paper ISK" - still having their "book value" (which they still do) as they arent liquidated. One of the reasons why I havent put any value on them in the above - To avoid that differentation. But what I posted there should definatly not have been posted as it was - It's misleading. My apologies for that. Thats creative accounting and is both illegal (rl) and a lie. I cant understand that you are trying to "get away" with this when clearly there have been made some grave mistakes. Why not just come clean and tell your shareholders what really happened so that everyone can get on :)
TornSoul BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.07 01:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Firid Soulbane clearly there have been made some grave mistakes. Why not just come clean and tell your shareholders what really happened so that everyone can get on :) Grave mistakes indeed : I agree, and I even bolded that in my first post, so no one would miss my acknowledgement of that. Tell the shareholders what really happened.. ermm... Thats what I've just done in the first posts... ?? BIG Lottery
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.07 01:07:00 - [17] Originally by: TornSoul Originally by: Verite Rendition I trusted you as the custodian of my money, I want to know how you think it's acceptable to lose 30% of the capital and still charge a management fee. I want you to be held responsible, because quite frankly you're doing everything you can to avoid it. Oh, and how much money have you lost from this whole thing? Do you hold any shares that are still underwater like the rest of us, or are you in a position that you're shareless and just enjoying the nice payoff that is your management fee? If you don't have any risk in this operation, then you're not acting in the best interests of the rest of us who do. Firstly - It took an enourmous amount of shareholder preassure before I even agreed to use t2 BPO's as collateral. There has been many ups and downs in the T2 BPO market... I really really really didnt want to do it - It's just so damn risky. But I did it, and the risk hit us right smack in the face. We ourself have a good sized share amount. At a guess I'd think we are in the top 5 of major shareholders. So yes this influences us as well. I don't seem to recall being asked if the BMBE should loan out 30bil for 2 Skiff BPOs, this would be a management situation. The fact of the matter is that given that you were holding not 1 but 2 at the time indicates to me that at the time someone had to have an idea that Skiffs were being devalued (though I think anyone with an ounce of in them should have seen that as being inevitable). How is it that you guys were so unaware of the nerf? When we as shareholders approved T2 loans, we had an expectation that you'd use due diligence in making out loans against them. From my POV, it doesn't appear that BMBE used such diligence in making these loans, and I want to know why. Oh, and thank you for answering the share question. I'd still like to know however how your management fees relate to what you've lost (i.e. have your management fees shielded you from taking the full brunt of this loss?). ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Chris Smith	Posted - 2007.05.07 01:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Verite Rendition Originally by: TornSoul Originally by: Verite Rendition I trusted you as the custodian of my money, I want to know how you think it's acceptable to lose 30% of the capital and still charge a management fee. I want you to be held responsible, because quite frankly you're doing everything you can to avoid it. Oh, and how much money have you lost from this whole thing? Do you hold any shares that are still underwater like the rest of us, or are you in a position that you're shareless and just enjoying the nice payoff that is your management fee? If you don't have any risk in this operation, then you're not acting in the best interests of the rest of us who do. Firstly - It took an enourmous amount of shareholder preassure before I even agreed to use t2 BPO's as collateral. There has been many ups and downs in the T2 BPO market... I really really really didnt want to do it - It's just so damn risky. But I did it, and the risk hit us right smack in the face. We ourself have a good sized share amount. At a guess I'd think we are in the top 5 of major shareholders. So yes this influences us as well. I don't seem to recall being asked if the BMBE should loan out 30bil for 2 Skiff BPOs, this would be a management situation. The fact of the matter is that given that you were holding not 1 but 2 at the time indicates to me that at the time someone had to have an idea that Skiffs were being devalued (though I think anyone with an ounce of in them should have seen that as being inevitable). How is it that you guys were so unaware of the nerf? When we as shareholders approved T2 loans, we had an expectation that you'd use due diligence in making out loans against them. From my POV, it doesn't appear that BMBE used such diligence in making these loans, and I want to know why. Oh, and thank you for answering the share question. I'd still like to know however how your management fees relate to what you've lost (i.e. have your management fees shielded you from taking the full brunt of this loss?). Proton POwers Alt - I dont think its fair to say its TS's fault and they should take the 30bil loss. Many IPO's have lost isk doing stupid things including PCT and never once did it come out of my isk. If CCP loses money this year, its employee's still get paid if they did the work. Period.
Firid Soulbane Empyreum	Posted - 2007.05.07 01:15:00 - [19] Originally by: TornSoul Originally by: Firid Soulbane clearly there have been made some grave mistakes. Why not just come clean and tell your shareholders what really happened so that everyone can get on :) Grave mistakes indeed : I agree, and I even bolded that in my first post, so no one would miss my acknowledgement of that. Tell the shareholders what really happened.. ermm... Thats what I've just done in the first posts... ?? You fail to tell us the reasoning behind choosing to keep the Skiff BPO's rather than selling them as you state in report #4. Neither have you given any info on what will happen to those prints now. Will you continue top produce from them or will they be sold?
TornSoul BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.07 01:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Verite Rendition I don't seem to recall being asked if the BMBE should loan out 30bil for 2 Skiff BPOs No we dont do a shareholder vote each time a prospective new client comes along... ??? You dont mean we should do that do you??? Originally by: Verite Rendition The fact of the matter is that given that you were holding not 1 but 2 at the time indicates to me that at the time someone had to have an idea that Skiffs were being devalued (though I think anyone with an ounce of in them should have seen that as being inevitable). How is it that you guys were so unaware of the nerf? In hindsight... The whole timing of that loan stinks - More than you perhaps at first think. I would dearly love if someone could come up with a excact date for when the nerf was made public. As I remember it - I was not aware of the nerf at the time of the loan. Originally by: Verite Rendition When we as shareholders approved T2 loans, we had an expectation that you'd use due diligence in making out loans against them. From my POV, it doesn't appear that BMBE used such diligence in making these loans, and I want to know why. And we definatly try to use due dilligence, which among other things involves thrawling the damn sell forums for auctions etc... We've gotten it wrong once - BIG time unfortunatly... Originally by: Verite Rendition Oh, and thank you for answering the share question. I'd still like to know however how your management fees relate to what you've lost (i.e. have your management fees shielded you from taking the full brunt of this loss?). I'm not sure I understand the question... The management fees has nothing to do with how many shares we have or not... ie. theres no correlation between the two. ??? BIG Lottery
TornSoul BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.07 01:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Firid Soulbane You fail to tell us the reasoning behind choosing to keep the Skiff BPO's rather than selling them as you state in report #4. Neither have you given any info on what will happen to those prints now. Will you continue top produce from them or will they be sold? Right after the loan was taken out, or around the time of the first payment (I can no longer recall which) the price of the prints fell through the bottom - To around 3-5B if I recall. We decided to hold on to the prints, based on the idea that at least a large part of the price drop was due to patch panic, and we hoped taht by holding on to the shares for some time, the prices would raise again - Meaning less or no loss for shareholders. Over the next monts we where encouraged in this belief by the prices going up again - But never enough to be able to sell them without a substantial loss. And then it happened again - Another patch, another drop. And this is where we are now.... In hindsigth, we should ofc have sold them when they topped, before the patch - But... Hindsight is just that - Hindsight ------- We will continue to produce from them - At their current value theres not much point in selling them. The capital influx will be marginal, and is unlikely to have any effect on BMBE's ISK making posibilities. With the prints in production, at least ther'll be a trickle. BIG Lottery
Votee	Posted - 2007.05.07 01:46:00 - [22] TS Do you think its fair that you have 40% management fee, even after loosing 25-30B shareholder ISK? regards, Votee
Rthor Gallente Smugglers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.07 02:05:00 - [23] Originally by: TornSoul Edited by: TornSoul on 07/05/2007 00:07:04 Rthor - The ISK is kept in my wallet (and Ray's). The only way to find out the value of the BMBE is to calculate it - I have other ISK in my wallet as well. Do you think its a good idea that your personal wallet is also a public company's wallet?
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.07 04:16:00 - [24] Originally by: TornSoul Originally by: Verite Rendition The fact of the matter is that given that you were holding not 1 but 2 at the time indicates to me that at the time someone had to have an idea that Skiffs were being devalued (though I think anyone with an ounce of in them should have seen that as being inevitable). How is it that you guys were so unaware of the nerf? In hindsight... The whole timing of that loan stinks - More than you perhaps at first think. I would dearly love if someone could come up with a excact date for when the nerf was made public. As I remember it - I was not aware of the nerf at the time of the loan. You're likely right about it not being public in published notes at the time of the loan (I don't have a timeline here, so I'll give you credit for that). However I don't consider due diligence to just be aware of changes that CCP makes public (which these days often aren't announced until days before the patch) but also things that are known without being published by CCP. The Skiff trick was a massive rule-bending effort, it was highly likely from day 1 that CCP was going to do something about it. I wager that at the time of the loan, the Skiff has been nerfed on Sisi but no note published; when the carrier owners and BPO owners noticed it they offloaded their T2 BPOs on you. This is what I'd consider due diligence on the part of BMBE management. If you're just watching the patch notes you're going to get scammed again and again; a failure to watch Sisi is a failure to exercise due diligence. It's the futures market of EVE. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.07 04:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Rthor Originally by: TornSoul Edited by: TornSoul on 07/05/2007 00:07:04 Rthor - The ISK is kept in my wallet (and Ray's). The only way to find out the value of the BMBE is to calculate it - I have other ISK in my wallet as well. Do you think its a good idea that your personal wallet is also a public company's wallet? I ran my IPO through my personal wallets. Not a great idea, but much easier.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.07 04:49:00 - [26] And frankly ANYONE "in the know" was fully aware of the Skiff nerf weeks ahead of time. I seem to recall it bieng generally known several weeks ahead of time. And frankly if your valuing those Skiff BPO's anywhere above 2-3b I've got a bridge to sell you. A great big space bridge.
DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.07 04:56:00 - [27] Originally by: Montaire And frankly ANYONE "in the know" was fully aware of the Skiff nerf weeks ahead of time. I seem to recall it bieng generally known several weeks ahead of time. And frankly if your valuing those Skiff BPO's anywhere above 2-3b I've got a bridge to sell you. A great big space bridge. Is this the auction for the bridge, if so 100bil isk :)
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.07 09:57:00 - [28] TornSoul, considering recent drama partly arising from missing information, could you add a bit more information on monthly reports? I reckon you have to keep tally of this numbers for your accounting anyway: Namely, 1a) total actual capital of BMBE (after the reinvestment) 1b) book value of other assets, with major items listed 2) Total operating profits (instead of having us to calculate it from dividends) Also kind of interested to hear which entity did took the loan against Skiff BPOs.. -Lasse waiting to hear about the planned buyback plan
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:15:00 - [29] Originally by: Votee TS Do you think its fair that you have 40% management fee, even after loosing 25-30B shareholder ISK? regards, Votee I have the same question. If STUFF made a big loss due to my mistake and say lost 30% of its value, I would eschew all salary until the NAV was back up to normal. Tornsoul has plenty of money; I'd think such a thing would be expected, to convert one's salary into NAV. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:35:00 - [30] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Votee TS Do you think its fair that you have 40% management fee, even after loosing 25-30B shareholder ISK? regards, Votee I have the same question. If STUFF made a big loss due to my mistake and say lost 30% of its value, I would eschew all salary until the NAV was back up to normal. Tornsoul has plenty of money; I'd think such a thing would be expected, to convert one's salary into NAV. I discussed this with TS. If we used our admin fee to shore up the equity loss it would amount to the same thing as us increasing our admin fee if collateral was sold for a profit. An option was also discussed whereby both dividends, admin fee and re-investment be used to shore up the equity (a la EMFI); but that is currently not within the business plan. At the moment, any gain or loss from the sale of collateral affects overall capital. We could also follow extraneous activities to regain equity (as was suggested for FIN to increase security) but that may tie up ISK that could be needed for loans. Now I'm not looking to get into an argument over what should have been done differently. I am also not interested in getting into a flaming match over how this information came to light. I am looking for viable options to rectify the current situation. At best we're looking at a combination of all possible options. \| Get A Loan For That Must Have Ship / Module \| BMBE ISK Loans \|

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