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Tacitus Krekt
The Phoenix Rising
Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.05.16 02:17:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Tacitus Krekt on 16/05/2007 02:15:34
The stealth bombers as they stand on Tranquility serve little to no role (other than a good alpha on an afk/stupid inty pilot). So, we see them going the route of "blob" busters. Any reason? I don't logistically see this as an effective change to blob warfare.
A massive number of ships in an area groups up - and a corresponding group forms up a few jumps out. Ultimately you've got a numbers game going. So the solution: AE them?
If the bomb launchers work similarly to their probe/bubble counterparts - then the pilot will be required to maneuver their ship into position for maximum effectiveness. Not too hard, but let's say he's able to do it.
Their next goal is to deploy the bomb to decimate the opposing force. Upon doing so, he's alligned himself to wherever and is close to entering warp by the time your average pilot is able to ctrl+click him in the overview. We'll assume he gets away.
Now the "bombed" blob has 2 choices if I'm understanding this correctly: either they can jump out, or dps the bomb before it detonates.
The problem you see here, clearly, is that a single stealth bomber is not going to do much to any fleet that is capable of watching their overview, or understands how to remain aligned. However...
Take this same scenario, and add in a few buddies - each flying a bomber. Your odds of destroying the hostiles are marginally increased if their decision is to dps said bombs. Is your chance of success higher? No. They can still warp.
So what we have is something that is going to be tested quite thoroughly. I'm thinking that range, fuse duration, ROF, bomb hp, and overall damage need to be looked at carefully; otherwise a gang of 4 SB's and a dictor will go to town in blob warfare. Granted they'll be suicidal - but the overall possibility of taking out an entire fleet via a coordinated detonation will make quite the thread in CAOD someday.
Do we need another worry on our minds when we're considering what can, will, and might happen when staging a battle? Perhaps. I don't necessarily like the potential of having people training bomber alts - quickly gaining the ability to nuke an entire fleet while a T1 fleet clutters your overview.
Time will tell.
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Leikung
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Posted - 2007.05.16 05:47:00 -
[62]
You just dont fly into a fleet and uncloak.
The only reason the SB stays alive is its massive range.
If they take away the range factor, a ship with 400 shield will not be the price they cost.
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MinRray
Minmatar
FireTech
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Posted - 2007.05.16 05:54:00 -
[63]
Bombs will finish the deployed drones of a fleet in one shot . This will practically make logistic drones next to useless if a bomber pilot knows what target the choose .
Anyway cool stuff , cant wait to finish testing .
"war ... war never changes" |
EangleOne
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Posted - 2007.05.16 06:58:00 -
[64]
A good idea to deal DPS against capital ship: actural damage = base damage x sign rad x (1-harden rat).
Bigger the ship is, more damage it take from bomb, makes sense to real bomb effect.
Nuclear bomb for Titan....... HOHOHO 
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Rabbitual Ferrier
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Posted - 2007.05.16 11:00:00 -
[65]
Yay Submarine style warfare... Das Boot in a Stealth Bomber
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.05.16 15:15:00 -
[66]
ECM bomb is gonna rule. Takes an entire section of the fleet out of the picture to pick off. This is where blob warefare is going to take a hit. If you are all together, blobbing a station, gate, pos, etc.... and they ECM bomb you over and over again, you will lose, BADLY. The capacitor bomb is also pretty damn cool, keeps capitals from using their jump drive for starters.
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Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden
YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.05.16 15:23:00 -
[67]
If you think the idea is using them while the enemy is blobbed and not engaged then yeah, they're a dumb idea. But in the midst of a fleet battle, very few are going to notice, and once people do, you'd have a huge break in coms on TS and the like that will give your guys a huge advantage, primaries stop being called, all teh snipers are worried about a pesky little bomb in their midst.
The idea isn't that you could pwn a fleet on your own in a stealth bomber, but when engaging during an active fleet battle I expect they could be quite effective.
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Leikung
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Posted - 2007.05.17 17:35:00 -
[68]
Wait until u read some of the posts on how they are gonna nerf the power on the manticore only, and give a third launcher to all the others.
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Rigsta
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.05.17 17:56:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Rigsta on 17/05/2007 17:53:41
 Originally by: Leikung
Wait until u read some of the posts on how they are gonna nerf the power on the manticore only, and give a third launcher to all the others.
Welcome to Singularity, where the sky is always falling.
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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Trovax
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.18 12:09:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Trovax on 18/05/2007 12:08:28
From what ive read and what i know from being a covops bomber pilot myself, i got a feelin that these new bombs are gonna be a passing 'fashion' item. People will try them and then after a month no one will use them. Why? Because the sum of everything ive read indicated that they are going to be pre nerfed.
For example...
If what is being said is true (although may change), then if a bomb get launched at the same velocity of the launch platform, a manticore being 300m/s for arguments sake, then the bomb will have a lax range of 300/ms x 10sec = 3km. ?? Does that mean we have to get within 3k to launch one of theses bombs? Not only that but you would have to wait almost 7 seconds for the probe to clear you cloak area (2000m), before you were able to cloak again. This is more than enough time for any AF pilot to lock and WTFBBQPWN your bomber. Not to mention the fact that s/he has probably started to lock you the moment you uncloaked.
Now someone mentioned inertia. As we all know, an object will maintain constant velocity until an outside force acts upon said object. This means that when the bomb leaves the ship, it no longer has 'thrust' so to speak. therefore will not gain any more inertia. Unless they stick rocket motors on them, in which case they would no longer be bombs but become nothing more than uber missiles.
If they can only be released at short range, why not just make bigger smart bombs that fit on the SB's?
Ive been a covops pilot for a little over a year, and with the cost of the rigs and launchers fitted atm, i dont think that 1 bomb every 160seconds at point blank range weighs up the risk v potential result balance.
I have a strike range of 212km with implants/rigs, and standard cruise missiles. I was a bit annoyed after training T2 cruise to find out that that strike range was reduced to approx 65km with T2 cruise fitted, as well as a speed nerf, and a couple other little nerfs. now i can understand the point in not makkin it so a single weapon PWN's all. But the idea of training somthing (with the exception of rigs) would be IMHO to make them better, not worse.
Anyways, guess we'll just have to wait and see. the bombs are still in development but i thought id mention it in case someone reads and thinks 'oh yeah...never thought of that'....or tho i seriously doubt it.
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" |
Psorion
Absolute Wrath Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 12:22:00 -
[71]
Im a new manticore pilot. I find it only useful for watching for hostile movement in my home system. Even then, the best use for me is watching our bubbles in .0 Then I can get a target of opportunity (Say a frigate trying to make it to the gate...) Very limited role. This ship as it stands have very very low survivability if you uncloak and get targeted inside 50-60km range. As it stands the only useful way I can see to use this bomb is jumping into a gate camp, launching your bomb and trying to jump back through before it explodes/u get aggressed. If the act of deploying the bomb is considered aggression then that idea wont work. But why nerf the only advantage caldari StealthBomberss have? This makes me fly my harpy even more :(
Stealth bombers should be able to warp cloaked IMO, and/or lock targets cloaked, so u uncloak to fire and recloak.
Cloaked and AFK at a system near you... |
Santa Anna
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Posted - 2007.05.18 13:18:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Psorion
This makes me fly my harpy even more :(
This will be (one) effect of the new stealth bombers, no doubt. One of the best ways to counter them is with a dedicated sniper in an AF such as a Harpy or an Enyo, or perhaps a destroyer. I haven't seen a sig radius for the bombs yet but presumably they're very small, making frigs much better snipers against them. This means when a fleet blobs it will need to have one or two antibomb snipers with bombs on their overview (perhaps only bombs). If one side in a medium gang/fleet engagement wishes to use stealth bombers, it may bring along some ships tasked specifically with picking off these anti-bomb sniper frigs. This depends a bit on engagement range, but something like an Eagle, a Muninn, or a Zealot. If implemented well, this could lead to much more diverse fleets with more tactical maneuvering and battlefield decision making. It would change the dynamic a bit from bigger blob = win to better/smarter/faster blob = win.
Simply warping out when the bombs show up likely wouldn't work. Remote DDD blasts kill plenty of ships and the warning there is pretty obvious. If half the fleet manages to warp out and the other half gets hit by the bomb, the bombing side will likely still has an advantage when they meet back up.
Something like this could also be used to kill bubbles and, perhaps most importantly, macro miners.  |
Trovax
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.18 15:15:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Trovax on 18/05/2007 15:15:54
Actualyl i just had another thought. The SB's cant warp cloaked, unlike their spotter couter-parts. Therefore, i reckon that before a Covops bomber pilot even gets a chance to lock a target to execute a bombing run, the 'blob' is gonna see it commin a mile away. An easy target for any sniper-geddon/sniper-thron.
In fact, if any bomber pilot manages to get a bomb off, it will more than likley be cos the enitre blob was sleepin, which in itself is highly unlikley.
Now im not askin for Bomber to be able to warp cloaked, but what i am saying is that they are gonna go down pretty fast.
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" |
De'Zori
PILGRIMS
Insane Asylum
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Posted - 2007.05.22 11:35:00 -
[74]
I was on sise last night too test out lvl 5 missions when i spotted theese bombs for the sb's
on stats of the bombs it said explosion radius 125m.
but further below it said explosion range 15km or something like that...
so wich one is it?
dez |
Parallax Error
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.22 11:47:00 -
[75]
Explosion Range = the maximum distance from the center of the explosion where you will feel its effect. Ie. 15km explosion range means that you will be hit if you are within 15km of the bomb when it goes off.
Explosion Radius = A fudge factor used for missiles to lessen the damage that a large warhead does to a smaller ship. Ie. a torpedo with 400m explosion radius wont do full damage to a cruiser with 125m sig radius.
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Harotak
The Burning Orphans
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.22 11:50:00 -
[76]
LOL, gotta love all the ppl talking about the targetting something to launch the bomb and the bomb moving after its fired. Read the dev posts on this, the bombs are going to work lide scan probes that blow up. In other words you hit the button and the bomb appears next to your ship, its completely stationary, and does not need to be targeted, just like a smartbomb/scanprobe/warpdisrupprobe.
I would say its most like a warp disrup probe that blows up instead of creating a bubble. The launching of them are going to work exactly the same, with the exception that bombs are targetable and dictor bubbles are not.
On another note, I wonder how well bombers will be able to counter bombers :P
If you have a decent idea where the enemy bomber force is on the grid, you can use a dictor to bubble them up, and then drop a few bombs on them, sorta like depth charges. One bomb wont kill a bomber (especialy if they have a plate/extender), but a couple/few might, and at the least it should decloak them.
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Tseran
Taggart Transdimensional
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Posted - 2007.05.22 14:02:00 -
[77]
The only problem I see is that an enemy has to be asleep or fairly stupid to actually get hit by a bomb. With 10 seconds (or more) until the bomb detonates and only 250hp, any large ship or gang of ships should be able to pop it. Smaller ships just need to hit the gas and move out of the bomb's range. The only way I could see these being useful is if the stealth bomber can drop them cloaked and then try to run. That way there is at least a CHANCE the target won't act in time.
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Rigsta
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.05.22 14:30:00 -
[78]
The more I hear about the bombs acting like timed mines the more I'm intruiged about how it will work out.
Yes the bombers are slow and vulnerable to small ships and snipers, but if you have a wing/squad of 3 bombers sneak in and drop 3 bombs each, it'd be a pretty suicidal inty pilot who goes in to catch the bomber. They could also probably just warp immediately after dropping the bombs.
Again, none of this is confirmed since it's still early days but I am getting more interested.
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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Angus Torg
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Posted - 2007.05.22 15:45:00 -
[79]
I assume that they will prohibit the usage of bombs in Empire. Otherwise ... well, there is usually a large blob in Jita at this place they call station. Or was it a gate?
And it would be even worse if the Stealth Bomber could cloak after deploying it - or does Concord have a uncloak device?
By the way, will it be an act of aggression if someone would attack your bomb (placed in front of a station)?
In the end, it will be probably be that way that you cannot deploy bombs in Empire. And you cannot cloak after deploying it (since you are in the 2000m proximity of the bomb). And it will not be used for un-blobbing, but for camping gates in small bomber gangs.
Can we get EVE back? Please. |
Tseran
Taggart Transdimensional
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Posted - 2007.05.22 15:47:00 -
[80]
Rigsta, you will never have bombers come in and drop 3 bombs each. They have already updated it on SISI so that each bomber is limited to one launcher. Thats why single bombers will never be feasable. To easy to pop the single bomb dropped.
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Lrrp
Minmatar
Gallente Mercantile Exchange
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Posted - 2007.05.25 01:43:00 -
[81]
So the bomb will also damage friendly ships as well as enemy. So now a friendly fleet protecting a gate will have to plan for area of effect (AoE) in setting up formation around gate. While the chess like manuvering is interesting I'm not sure that many will want to use a SB for claimed space defence. Only use may be in breaking up a pirate gate gank but like others say, without a covert ops cloak the SB will be toast before it can set it's bomb.
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Santa Anna
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Posted - 2007.05.25 02:00:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Lrrp
So the bomb will also damage friendly ships as well as enemy. So now a friendly fleet protecting a gate will have to plan for area of effect (AoE) in setting up formation around gate. While the chess like manuvering is interesting I'm not sure that many will want to use a SB for claimed space defence. Only use may be in breaking up a pirate gate gank but like others say, without a covert ops cloak the SB will be toast before it can set it's bomb.
Not if the targets aren't bubbled...
Set F1= cloak
F2 = bomb
Get into position, align to warp-out, F1/F2 spam warp button.
Anyone who tries to lock you is just wasting time -- they should be trying to lock and shoot the bomb (or warping out) instead. |
Unearthly
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Posted - 2007.05.25 02:35:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Unearthly on 25/05/2007 02:37:52
Most of the counters to bombers that people have mentioned say "have specific ships set with overview only showing bombs to blow them up" or some such
My question is, even if the bomb acts like a probe when it comes to deployment, who's to say that bombs will show up on overview? Not everything does, and other weapons like missiles dont... (Oh and i haven't read any info regarding bombs aside from whats in this thread, so if what im saying has been contradicted by official info, please ignore me  )
so who's to say that the bomb itself cant need to be visually found and locked (fun fun fun amidst the lag of a blob - thus encouraging less blob tactics) in order to be destroyed? So then, you'd have snipers watching for incoming SB's, yes, and probably telling everyone to run like crazy when the SB cloaks - SB may not get any kills from the bomb if this happens, but the blob's broken up, and you'd see less blobs and more small gangs...
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Santa Anna
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Posted - 2007.05.25 02:44:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Unearthly
Edited by: Unearthly on 25/05/2007 02:37:52
Most of the counters to bombers that people have mentioned say "have specific ships set with overview only showing bombs to blow them up" or some such
My question is, even if the bomb acts like a probe when it comes to deployment, who's to say that bombs will show up on overview? Not everything does, and other weapons like missiles dont... (Oh and i haven't read any info regarding bombs aside from whats in this thread, so if what im saying has been contradicted by official info, please ignore me )
so who's to say that the bomb itself cant need to be visually found and locked (fun fun fun amidst the lag of a blob - thus encouraging less blob tactics) in order to be destroyed? So then, you'd have snipers watching for incoming SB's, yes, and probably telling everyone to run like crazy when the SB cloaks - SB may not get any kills from the bomb if this happens, but the blob's broken up, and you'd see less blobs and more small gangs...
If bombs aren't on overview, I may have a new favorite toy... |
Tssa
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2007.05.25 04:38:00 -
[85]
k, am I the only one that sees the very obvious tactic of warping a dictor in with several bombers?
1. warp squad into blob
2. bombers deploy weapon, initiate warp, dictor drops bubble
3. ???
4. profit!
Would take some practice to get the timing dead on, and most likely some voice coordination with big blob lag, but could be fairly devestating even to a well prepared fleet.
Let's have a traditional thanks giving this year...invite the neighbors over for dinner..then kill them and take their T2 stuff!!
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2007.05.25 08:09:00 -
[86]
I wonder if bombs work like missiles.
missles won't hit their target if the launcher ship warps off, cloaks or dies before they hit. there is a short grace period though.
so if this applies to bombs as well, probably the SB will uncloak very close to their target in order to warp of as fast as possible.. or if they're launching from far, they will have to wait while bombs get there. either way assumes huge risk for the bombers.
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Aleric Vikyz
Shadow Of The Light
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.05.25 08:48:00 -
[87]
I don't think people realise how massive a nerf this will be to droneboats... 
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Trovax
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.25 14:21:00 -
[88]
I still think its exaclty the same as a Smart Bomb. Warp in, in a Raven for example, and just MSB the spam outta everything. Same amount of dmg. Smaller range. but get 10 ravens all fitted with Smart bombs and you can cover 50km radius. Raven would probably last longer than the bomber too seing as the bomber is made of balsa wood and recycled toilet-roll.
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" |
Trovax
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.25 14:27:00 -
[89]
Originally by: EangleOne
A good idea to deal DPS against capital ship: actural damage = base damage x sign rad x (1-harden rat).
Bigger the ship is, more damage it take from bomb, makes sense to real bomb effect.
Nuclear bomb for Titan....... HOHOHO
If i dropped a nuke on a oil tanker in rl, then there would be no oil tanker left. If i dropped that same nuke on a 8ft wooden sailing boat, you can be damed sure there will be no 8ft wooden sailing boat anymore. Not even for forensics. So no.... not real bomb effect at all.
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" |
Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
Ihatalo Internal Security
Ihatalo Cartel
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Posted - 2007.05.25 15:18:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Ogdru Jahad on 25/05/2007 15:17:08
I see jita... 4-4... 10 of the same race SB's come along each drop a bomb at 10km from docking bay warp off cloak..
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