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KnightGuard Fury
Warclone's Fabration Initiative
0
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Posted - 2017.06.07 18:01:54 -
[1] - Quote
why do you guys perma dec people for no reason? my other corp has been decked for a few weeks now and its annoying because we have things we want to get done, stuff we need to transfer ownership to etc.
especially when your not even killing us or messing with anything of ours... theres literally no point except wasting our time. |
Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
206
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Posted - 2017.06.07 18:05:47 -
[2] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:why do you guys perma dec people for no reason?
KnightGuard Fury wrote:theres literally no point except wasting our time.
Is it no reason, or are they wasting your time? Please don't contradict yourself.
Also, last I checked some people like shooting spaceships without having to travel far from Jita. |
KnightGuard Fury
Warclone's Fabration Initiative
0
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Posted - 2017.06.07 18:11:12 -
[3] - Quote
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:KnightGuard Fury wrote:why do you guys perma dec people for no reason? KnightGuard Fury wrote:theres literally no point except wasting our time. Is it no reason, or are they wasting your time? Please don't contradict yourself. Also, last I checked some people like shooting spaceships without having to travel far from Jita.
yes, but when the people deccing dont kill most the people they war dec, why even dec at all? |
ScanAlt
Imperian Sciences
10
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 18:19:44 -
[4] - Quote
Apparently they catch enough folks for it to be enjoyable for them, or I don't think they'd bother shelling out the ISK for the wardec fees. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6565
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 18:20:33 -
[5] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:Zanar Skwigelf wrote:KnightGuard Fury wrote:why do you guys perma dec people for no reason? KnightGuard Fury wrote:theres literally no point except wasting our time. Is it no reason, or are they wasting your time? Please don't contradict yourself. Also, last I checked some people like shooting spaceships without having to travel far from Jita. yes, but when the people deccing dont kill most the people they war dec, why even dec at all?
It is a numbers game. You dec lots of people, hopefully some show up in a trade up or on the trade lanes. You then shoot them.
Your beef is with CCP, they have made various changes to the game that have made this style of play much more prevalent than in the past.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Delta122
Pew Squad
18
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Posted - 2017.06.07 18:22:39 -
[6] - Quote
You will also find some people who will do it to **** a corp off enough to pay the Waring corp to leave them alone.
Pew Squad, 0.0 PvP for the fun of it!
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Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
1267
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Posted - 2017.06.07 18:25:52 -
[7] - Quote
Some wardecs are opportunistic - looking for cheap kills. Some are mercenary - people pay them to do it. Maybe you have a competitor who wants you out of the way for a while.
Learn how to live with wardecs. Ships like the Astero can be used to travel safely and out of corp ALTS can do your hauling.
Another option is move to sovereign nullsec - they are unlikely to chase you there! |
Toxic Yaken
The Dickwad Squad Rote Kapelle
191
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Posted - 2017.06.07 18:30:56 -
[8] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:Zanar Skwigelf wrote:KnightGuard Fury wrote:why do you guys perma dec people for no reason? KnightGuard Fury wrote:theres literally no point except wasting our time. Is it no reason, or are they wasting your time? Please don't contradict yourself. Also, last I checked some people like shooting spaceships without having to travel far from Jita. yes, but when the people deccing dont kill most the people they war dec, why even dec at all?
Because there is odd the chance that they will get a kill and the victim will post on the forums about it.
Seriously though, the reason may not be clear to you but most wardeccers will have a reason to declare war, be it reviewing a corporation/alliance's killboards to see if they are easy prey, seeing them using in corp freighters/orcas, flying blinged out mission fits, smack talking, contracts, you name it. Wars exist in their current form because CCP wants them to be open to interpretation and storytelling, even if they often times don't have any interesting context.
tl;dr They want content.
Curator of the Wardec Project - Join our Discord to join the discussions about Wardecs
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KnightGuard Fury
Warclone's Fabration Initiative
0
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Posted - 2017.06.07 18:35:26 -
[9] - Quote
well, their original reason was "join us or get decc'd" but at this point in time they really still have no reason to lol. and if they dec any corps i create im just purposely wasting their isk |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16027
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Posted - 2017.06.07 18:42:04 -
[10] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Your beef is with CCP, they have made various changes to the game that have made this style of play much more prevalent than in the past.
I'm going to take this opportunity to grind an axe (what? who me? no one would ever expect that! ). This goes out to all those "CHANGE IT' people.
CCP made those changes, changes that many people asked for and agreed with when told about them, in an attempt to make the situation "better". People complained to high heavens about war decs, and CCP obliged them by making changes that forum posters were sure would curb the bad things about war decs while amplifying the good. The"Change it now" folks not only rejoiced, they looked at war deccers and basically said "haw, take that, your pitiful war dec status quo is about to CHANGE ha ha".
Turns out that those changes made things worse. Not for the War Deccers mind you, they just adapted to the new war dec rules. No, the changes made it worse for everyone else, no instead of war deccers analysing trade and system traffic and finding vulnerable corps to war dec, they just random war dec EVERYONE and how something shakes out. And it does, the past changes to war decs not only made things worse for the people who were supposed to be helped, they probably made life easier and more lucrative for the war deccers....
I always like to recall how this happened with Goons and Dominion sov and how the 'small group' anti Goon types were sooo sure that DOMINION SOV was going to kick Goons right in the pants when in fact it turned out to be such a serious boon to Goons that their empire lasted years longer than it would have under the old pre-Dominion system. Those "goons are gonna get it now" folks who were celebrating the idea of dominion helping 'the little guy) actually turned into freaking GOON SLAVES (renters).
Which leads me to the whole point of the ranting above. You simply cannot make the naive, utopian, overly optimistic "CHANGE IT" types understand that sometimes "change" is more likely to screw you than help you., and that you cannot 'change' human nature.
Every time someone tries to explain to the change crowd that it won't work the way they think it will ( that the most probable outcome is that everyone BUT the targeted people will get screwed if the crack pot idea they)hold onto ever comes to fruition), you get the exact same responses.
"You are just afraid of change"
"You just want to maintain the status quo because you benefit from it"
"you hate the new players who will flood the game when the big change to 'X" (X being the bad/evil thing,. war decs, ganking, cloaky camping, scams, awoxxing, etc etc) happens"
At this point I've learned to just let it happen for the most part, because while I don't like a lot of what CCP is doing with EVE, I've learned that it is at least enjoyable to watch the "change it!" crowd get screwed over when CCP gives them the exact thing they were asking for... |
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16027
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 18:45:59 -
[11] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:well, their original reason was "join us or get decc'd" but at this point in time they really still have no reason to lol. and if they dec any corps i create im just purposely wasting their isk
i get that they want content but they arent getting it from us.
That depends. If they War decced you to get a response from you, your post on this forum just handed them a win.
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KnightGuard Fury
Warclone's Fabration Initiative
0
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Posted - 2017.06.07 18:49:53 -
[12] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:KnightGuard Fury wrote:well, their original reason was "join us or get decc'd" but at this point in time they really still have no reason to lol. and if they dec any corps i create im just purposely wasting their isk
i get that they want content but they arent getting it from us. That depends. If they War decced you to get a response from you, your post on this forum just handed them a win.
but its not to get a responce from us. that was their main reason... im just asking why people do this sort of thing
also i think war decs should be a ships destroyed per decc kind of thing. if you kill a certain amount of ships depending on the corp/alliance size of the people you dec then you can keep the war dec. |
Skorpynekomimi
702
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Posted - 2017.06.07 18:49:55 -
[13] - Quote
My corp was hit by them a while ago, and I figured out their model.
It is, basically, griefing. They wardec multiple corps at once, forcing you to shut down missioning and mining and hauling. This costs you money in loss of income and in courier fees. Then, every so often, some dumbass undocks from a trade hub while they're online in something expensive and untanked, and they get a shiny kill with lots of loot drops. Maybe they've ganked your Noctis coming back from a mission loaded with meta4 items, maybe they get a shiny mission boat with a hole in it's resists due to rats, or maybe they get a hauler full of trade goods. That's what keeps 10+ people logged in and watching trade hubs in expensive faction hulls.
Economic PVP
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KnightGuard Fury
Warclone's Fabration Initiative
0
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Posted - 2017.06.07 18:55:53 -
[14] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote:My corp was hit by them a while ago, and I figured out their model.
It is, basically, griefing. They wardec multiple corps at once, forcing you to shut down missioning and mining and hauling. This costs you money in loss of income and in courier fees. Then, every so often, some dumbass undocks from a trade hub while they're online in something expensive and untanked, and they get a shiny kill with lots of loot drops. Maybe they've ganked your Noctis coming back from a mission loaded with meta4 items, maybe they get a shiny mission boat with a hole in it's resists due to rats, or maybe they get a hauler full of trade goods. That's what keeps 10+ people logged in and watching trade hubs in expensive faction hulls.
well besides me making our KB horrible we dont really give them ANY content as of like a week or 2 ago...
https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98487371/
and my people dont even log in all too much so im the only one thats super active because im actually doing things in industry and mining. other than that they never going to get content out of us. also we rarely go to jita unless its for selling things, let alone undocking in something expensive lol |
KnightGuard Fury
Warclone's Fabration Initiative
0
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Posted - 2017.06.07 18:56:46 -
[15] - Quote
^^^ that was me having fun welping ships btw |
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1903
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 18:57:31 -
[16] - Quote
Moved to Crime and Punishment.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1504
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 19:03:47 -
[17] - Quote
Do Little wrote:Another option is move to sovereign nullsec - they are unlikely to chase you there! Anything that requires leaving highsec is enough
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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KnightGuard Fury
Warclone's Fabration Initiative
0
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Posted - 2017.06.07 19:05:37 -
[18] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:Do Little wrote:Another option is move to sovereign nullsec - they are unlikely to chase you there! Anything that requires leaving highsec is enough
actually low sec is right next door but were not ready to legit move in yet. |
Murlocs IN EVE
Murl0c Invasion
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 19:10:45 -
[19] - Quote
What u mean not ready? Just pack your luggage and move in. Pirates are very helpful in eve, die a few times and make friends. Sooner or later you will realise just how fun eve can be once you leave highsec.
Yarrr!!
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1728
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 21:06:31 -
[20] - Quote
You're calling them Carebears, but you're the ones not doing what you want to do?
Typical Carebear right there. Too dumb to see how arse backwards they have it.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Baaldor
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Solyaris Chtonium
483
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 21:11:08 -
[21] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:why do you guys perma dec people for little to no reason? my other corp has been decked for a few weeks now and its annoying because we have things we want to get done, stuff we need to transfer ownership to etc.
especially when your not even killing us or messing with anything of ours... there's not much of a point except wasting our time.
Someone has a very specific reason to Wardec you. And not sure if you understand MERCs? but normally they are HIRED as in PAID to war dec you as you must have pissed someone off enough to war dec.
Not sure how hard is that to grasp. |
KnightGuard Fury
Warclone's Fabration Initiative
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 21:23:13 -
[22] - Quote
Baaldor wrote:KnightGuard Fury wrote:why do you guys perma dec people for little to no reason? my other corp has been decked for a few weeks now and its annoying because we have things we want to get done, stuff we need to transfer ownership to etc.
especially when your not even killing us or messing with anything of ours... there's not much of a point except wasting our time. Someone has a very specific reason to Wardec you. And not sure if you understand MERCs? but normally they are HIRED as in PAID to war dec you as you must have pissed someone off enough to war dec. Not sure how hard is that to grasp. i get that but VERY FEW people really know of us and i have talked with them personally. no one has hired them to do this |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
2308
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 21:27:41 -
[23] - Quote
How do you know?
You don't.
You were probably war decced because they were bored and they saw you flying by.
Or maybe you ticked somebody off and touched what they consider their internet space rocks.
Tons of reasons.
You can either fight, run away, or log off and go play World of Tanks for abit.
Learn to fight. Have a standing fleet. Kill them in t1 attack frigates. Put up a citadel and dare them to go after it.
Or go be nullbears.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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KnightGuard Fury
Warclone's Fabration Initiative
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 21:28:07 -
[24] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:You're calling them Carebears, but you're the ones not doing what you want to do?
Typical Carebear right there. Too dumb to see how arse backwards they have it.
i never said anything about me not being a carebear... i said i cant get much done. i have other ways to deal with getting things done but corp wise i cant. im saying that its just stupid to do this.
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KnightGuard Fury
Warclone's Fabration Initiative
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 21:29:09 -
[25] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:How do you know?
You don't.
You were probably war decced because they were bored and they saw you flying by.
Or maybe you ticked somebody off and touched what they consider their internet space rocks.
Tons of reasons.
You can either fight, run away, or log off and go play World of Tanks for abit.
Learn to fight. Have a standing fleet. Kill them in t1 attack frigates. Put up a citadel and dare them to go after it.
Or go be nullbears. i already said i personally talked to them ffs. they wanted us to join them but we said no. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1660
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 21:31:19 -
[26] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:KnightGuard Fury wrote:well, their original reason was "join us or get decc'd" but at this point in time they really still have no reason to lol. and if they dec any corps i create im just purposely wasting their isk
i get that they want content but they arent getting it from us. That depends. If they War decced you to get a response from you, your post on this forum just handed them a win. but its not to get a responce from us. that was their main reason... im just asking why people do this sort of thing also i think war decs should be a ships destroyed per decc kind of thing. until you kill a certain amount of ships depending on the corp/alliance size of the people you dec the war dec keeps going. I've slightly adapted your text for better content ratio.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1660
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 21:34:29 -
[27] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:How do you know?
You don't.
You were probably war decced because they were bored and they saw you flying by.
Or maybe you ticked somebody off and touched what they consider their internet space rocks.
Tons of reasons.
You can either fight, run away, or log off and go play World of Tanks for abit.
Learn to fight. Have a standing fleet. Kill them in t1 attack frigates. Put up a citadel and dare them to go after it.
Or go be nullbears. i already said i personally talked to them ffs. they wanted us to join them but we said no.
Who would want to herd a bunch of unwilling industrialists?
Remove standings and insurance.
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Baaldor
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Solyaris Chtonium
483
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 21:36:18 -
[28] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:Baaldor wrote:KnightGuard Fury wrote:why do you guys perma dec people for little to no reason? my other corp has been decked for a few weeks now and its annoying because we have things we want to get done, stuff we need to transfer ownership to etc.
especially when your not even killing us or messing with anything of ours... there's not much of a point except wasting our time. Someone has a very specific reason to Wardec you. And not sure if you understand MERCs? but normally they are HIRED as in PAID to war dec you as you must have pissed someone off enough to war dec. Not sure how hard is that to grasp. i get that but VERY FEW people really know of us and i have talked with them personally. no one has hired them to do this
Check it, so this is what happens.
someone sees all of a sudden a mass injection of Salvagers hit the market and the pricing has plummeted. So the Indy Bear gets his/her/it's panties in a twist, see who is listing the products, calls up a MERC group and war decs said competing indy bear,
So, somewhere in Jita, this dude advertises moving stuff, and someone somewhere gets wind that their hated foe, is having their crap moved and then finds out who is doing it and is war dec'd. |
KnightGuard Fury
Warclone's Fabration Initiative
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 21:54:55 -
[29] - Quote
ok to clear some things up:
1. some of my people are pvp'ers and some indy/miners 2. i have not been in the market in a while but have een building things and saving up. 3. we live in a low competition market and everyone and thier mothers are mostly miners/indy/mission runners. 4. our region is MH, the most lack luster region around.
no one has a real reason to hate us whether its me or anyone or thing else. **** all if i know why someone would really dec us besides looking for easy kills or just to annoy us. |
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
107
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 22:53:59 -
[30] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:why do you guys perma dec people for little to no reason? my other corp has been decked for a few weeks now and its annoying because we have things we want to get done, stuff we need to transfer ownership to etc.
especially when your not even killing us or messing with anything of ours... there's not much of a point except wasting our time.
We've been on the recieving end of many of these wardecs and they've all been dropped one after the other. As best we can work out, it is typically multi-boxing setups camping the major tradehubs and their approaches. You need to be careful with them because we have identified numerous neutral alts, whcih, they use to spy on gates.
Futhermore, even if you do catch one on their own they will quickly scramble everything to that fight - and they can easily ship up into faction battleships and Lord knows what else. On the rare occasion they do loose a ship you will discover that they are bling fit to buggery - often with fitting costs well in excess of 1 Billion ISK. So taking one of their ships out is a major coup.... The problem is that you probably wont be able to.
All this aside. Those corps who do this are often the wost kind of carebear. They love to make easy kills. But as soon as you start hunting them with enough ships on the field to hurt them, they will drop the wardec like a hot potato...
In short, they are cowards. |
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Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries Vendetta Mercenary Group
456
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 23:07:54 -
[31] - Quote
Fight back. Hire someone else asap. Eve is Eve. Become better. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
21523
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 23:21:30 -
[32] - Quote
https://imgur.com/mej2mKI
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
=]|[=
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Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries Vendetta Mercenary Group
456
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 23:30:10 -
[33] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:KnightGuard Fury wrote:why do you guys perma dec people for little to no reason? my other corp has been decked for a few weeks now and its annoying because we have things we want to get done, stuff we need to transfer ownership to etc.
especially when your not even killing us or messing with anything of ours... there's not much of a point except wasting our time. We've been on the recieving end of many of these wardecs and they've all been dropped one after the other. As best we can work out, it is typically multi-boxing setups camping the major tradehubs and their approaches. You need to be careful with them because we have identified numerous neutral alts, whcih, they use to spy on gates. Futhermore, even if you do catch one on their own they will quickly scramble everything to that fight - and they can easily ship up into faction battleships and Lord knows what else. On the rare occasion they do loose a ship you will discover that they are bling fit to buggery - often with fitting costs well in excess of 1 Billion ISK. So taking one of their ships out is a major coup.... The problem is that you probably wont be able to. All this aside. Those corps who do this are often the wost kind of carebear. They love to make easy kills. But as soon as you start hunting them with enough ships on the field to hurt them, they will drop the wardec like a hot potato... In short, they are cowards.
Confirming high sec war drivers are cowards . Come fight and we run as away! |
CMDR-HerpyDerpy Hurishima
Debitum Naturae Goonswarm Federation
78
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 00:33:48 -
[34] - Quote
You could have some fun by getting your entire corp together in cheap pvp fit ships and going out on a fuckfest on them XD say gf in local if you lose and **** :p would be a fun investment in their time and they might leave you alone if you **** on them |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
2309
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 02:32:06 -
[35] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote: So taking one of their ships out is a major coup.... The problem is that you probably wont be able to...
EWAR and cap warfare.......plus numbers.....says you are wrong.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
580
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 09:07:21 -
[36] - Quote
Since the mercs have multiple wardecs you can always contact the others involved. Organize, set up a strategy, bait them and have fun. Or pay another merc alliance to deal with them.
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
2309
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 09:23:44 -
[37] - Quote
Gimme Sake wrote:Since the mercs have multiple wardecs you can always contact the others involved. Organize, set up a strategy, bait them and have fun. Or pay another merc alliance to deal with them.
^^^^
This.
Never underestimate the power of diplomacy.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
Cypherous
Cypherous Corporation
251
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 11:20:25 -
[38] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:well, their original reason was "join us or get decc'd" but at this point in time they really still have no reason to lol. and if they dec any corps i create im just purposely wasting their isk
i get that they want content but they arent getting it from us.
The cost to dec a corp is cheap, hell most level 4 missions will pay for a wardec or five :P
Or just do what i did, leave corp until they get bored of shooting nobody and then drop the war and move back, just leave an alpha alt to hold the corp :P |
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries Vendetta Mercenary Group
458
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 11:23:15 -
[39] - Quote
CMDR-HerpyDerpy Hurishima wrote:You could have some fun by getting your entire corp together in cheap pvp fit ships and going out on a fuckfest on them XD say gf in local if you lose and **** :p would be a fun investment in their time and they might leave you alone if you **** on them
So true. Fight back and have some fun. |
Ix Method
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
519
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 12:17:56 -
[40] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:why do you guys perma dec people for little to no reason? KnightGuard Fury wrote:its annoying because we have things we want to get done, stuff we need to transfer ownership to etc. One of these things is not like the other one. It's quite rare for the wardec system to work as hoped but on the face of it this appears to be one of those occasions.
Travelling at the speed of love.
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gnshadowninja
Back Passage Explorer's Vendetta Mercenary Group
370
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 12:55:01 -
[41] - Quote
The issue is that your all too lazy to do anythung, you spend the majority of the time whining on the forums or reddit about how were "carebear pvpers", "hub campers", "griefers", "cowards" yet do NOTHING actually ingame.
If were so bad then come fight us, Cavemen alliance did and they won!
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Ro Fenrios
Armilies Corporation Circle-Of-Two
235
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 13:30:01 -
[42] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:ok to clear some things up:
1. some of my people are pvp'ers and some indy/miners 2. i have not been in the market in a while but have een building things and saving up. 3. we live in a low competition market and everyone and thier mothers are mostly miners/indy/mission runners. 4. our region is MH, the most lack luster region around.
no one has a real reason to hate us whether its me or anyone or thing else. **** all if i know why someone would really dec us besides looking for easy kills or just to annoy us.
Story time.
I am sympathetic to your position since long time ago my corp was facing similar problem. We were high sec mining corp in Caldari high sec, dreaming of becoming local industrial giant some day. Not really looking trouble, minding our own business. Our plans soon were ruined by persistant high sec wardeccing group whom had targeted for no particular reason. We had no idea bout wardec mechanics, no idea how they could find us every day even when we changed systems or how to fight them. One of them were hunting us in legion, a ship that seemed bizarry alien for us but also very squishy (if you check legion attributes it has like 100shield/armor/Hull HP without rigs(?))
We setup a war plan. We were going to ambush that legion! We had 2 destroyers and 1 Moa, cruiser that has so much more hitpoints than puny legion! It was a good plan, perfect plan and we executed it without fail... up until the point we engaged. Even our mighty flagship, that Moa class cruiser we had could not put a dent to legion's armor. We lost the fight almost immidietly and ran away. What could we do now? There was no way we could fight these Guys and if they came to chase us every single day, what could we do? Our future Eve career seemed hopeless and to add salt to the wound, one of the deccers even said we should quit the game cause we are so bad.
Another day running from wardeccers. A Loki is chasing My little t1 trasher around high sec. If he wants to kill Me I Will at least make him work for it. And he does. We make over 20 jumps from Caldari high sec to southern Amarr. This Dude has some kind of hate boner for me. I accidentally warp to low sec Gate. Warning message pops up. Danger! Only way out from here is back through the route I came and the Loki is already in system. Loki lands on gate. I panic and Press jump..
...
Loki does not follow.
That panic jump was propably most inportant decision I made in my early Eve career. Up to this point almost anyone Outside our corp had either tried to kill us or did not care, but in low sec we met people whom - after killing us first of course - soon were teaching us and protecting us. By the time next random wardec landed not only did we know how to defend ourselves, but we also had some veterans willing to back us up. It felt strange to watch our wardeccers run or dock up for exchange as soon as our New friends showed up.
That one low sec jump propelled our corp forward by a mile and also sparked pvp hunger in us. Sure we still built stuff but we were also roaming and now killing things ourselves. This also proved to be surprising good recruitment method. I ENCOURAGE you to go to low sec, to learn and to meet new people. Make friends and allies and train your members to defend themselves. Even if you live hybrid life with one foot in high and other in low, this will help you. Especially when you get seriously into manufacturing. You want someone to be there help defend your citidels after all.
TLDR GO LOW SEC. POWER UP. |
Toxic Yaken
The Dickwad Squad Rote Kapelle
192
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 14:48:43 -
[43] - Quote
Ro Fenrios wrote:KnightGuard Fury wrote:ok to clear some things up:
1. some of my people are pvp'ers and some indy/miners 2. i have not been in the market in a while but have een building things and saving up. 3. we live in a low competition market and everyone and thier mothers are mostly miners/indy/mission runners. 4. our region is MH, the most lack luster region around.
no one has a real reason to hate us whether its me or anyone or thing else. **** all if i know why someone would really dec us besides looking for easy kills or just to annoy us. Story time. I am sympathetic to your position since long time ago my corp was facing similar problem. We were high sec mining corp in Caldari high sec, dreaming of becoming local industrial giant some day. Not really looking trouble, minding our own business. Our plans soon were ruined by persistant high sec wardeccing group whom had targeted for no particular reason. We had no idea bout wardec mechanics, no idea how they could find us every day even when we changed systems or how to fight them. One of them were hunting us in legion, a ship that seemed bizarry alien for us but also very squishy (if you check legion attributes it has like 100shield/armor/Hull HP without rigs(?)) We setup a war plan. We were going to ambush that legion! We had 2 destroyers and 1 Moa, cruiser that has so much more hitpoints than puny legion! It was a good plan, perfect plan and we executed it without fail... up until the point we engaged. Even our mighty flagship, that Moa class cruiser we had could not put a dent to legion's armor. We lost the fight almost immidietly and ran away. What could we do now? There was no way we could fight these Guys and if they came to chase us every single day, what could we do? Our future Eve career seemed hopeless and to add salt to the wound, one of the deccers even said we should quit the game cause we are so bad. Another day running from wardeccers. A Loki is chasing My little t1 trasher around high sec. If he wants to kill Me I Will at least make him work for it. And he does. We make over 20 jumps from Caldari high sec to southern Amarr. This Dude has some kind of hate boner for me. I accidentally warp to low sec Gate. Warning message pops up. Danger! Only way out from here is back through the route I came and the Loki is already in system. Loki lands on gate. I panic and Press jump.. ... Loki does not follow. That panic jump was propably most inportant decision I made in my early Eve career. Up to this point almost anyone Outside our corp had either tried to kill us or did not care, but in low sec we met people whom - after killing us first of course - soon were teaching us and protecting us. By the time next random wardec landed not only did we know how to defend ourselves, but we also had some veterans willing to back us up. It felt strange to watch our wardeccers run or dock up for exchange as soon as our New friends showed up. That one low sec jump propelled our corp forward by a mile and also sparked pvp hunger in us. Sure we still built stuff but we were also roaming and now killing things ourselves. This also proved to be surprising good recruitment method. I ENCOURAGE you to go to low sec, to learn and to meet new people. Make friends and allies and train your members to defend themselves. Even if you live hybrid life with one foot in high and other in low, this will help you. Especially when you get seriously into manufacturing. You want someone to be there help defend your citidels after all. TLDR GO LOW SEC. POWER UP.
Is ARMIL recruiting?
Curator of the Wardec Project - Join our Discord to join the discussions about Wardecs
|
Ro Fenrios
Armilies Corporation Circle-Of-Two
238
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 15:27:09 -
[44] - Quote
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Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
656
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 18:01:34 -
[45] - Quote
Reasons I've wardecced:
1) I wardecced my own alliance for kicking me out for being an Agent (and a Christian). 2) For interfering with New Order ganking. 3) For refusing to buy permits after being ganked. 4) For being insufficiently respectful after being ganked. 5) For bringing a mining fleet to Kino and refusing to follow the Code. 6) For botting. (These are good ones as finding the mining fleet while under a wardec is like Vikings finding an unguarded English village.) 7) For accepting an anti-ganker as a new member after I warn them not to. 8) For attempting to gank my bumping ship. 9) For putting up a POS without defenses. 10) For being Space Nazi's. (They really exist. Amazing corp bio.) 11) For taking my fittings after a gank. 12) For calling me "insignificant". 13) For the comment "And there's NOTHING you can do about it!". 14) For ganking another New Order Agent. 15) For being Druids. This one was more complicated and related to people who fled my old alliance (see #1).
Before CCP nerfed the Watchlist these were all perfectly good reasons to wardec corps and alliances. I could determine who I felt umbrage against and go after them. I could give them the terms of surrender and they could accept them or have their organization destroyed. Good times.
I see why the wardec corps have to now just wardec the universe and hope somebody screws up. This is what the current situation has led to. If the wardec targets don't like it, well, as others have pointed out, they chose it.
Better were the days when mastery of highsec came not from bargains struck with CCP but from the sweat on a man's keyboard and his mastery of the Watchlist. You all know this to be true!
TLDR: I WANT MAH WATCHLIST!
Highsec is worth fighting for.
By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
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Freya Sertan
Amarrian Einherjar
762
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 19:04:03 -
[46] - Quote
You could, I dunno, try fighting back?
New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.
Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
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Kaely Tanniss
Commonwealth Mercenaries Vendetta Mercenary Group
974
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 01:18:57 -
[47] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:You're calling them Carebears, but you're the ones not doing what you want to do?
Typical Carebear right there. Too dumb to see how arse backwards they have it. i never said anything about me not being a carebear... i said i cant get much done. i have other ways to deal with getting things done but corp wise i cant. im saying that its just stupid to do this.
And THIS is exactly why you got decced..for them, your inability to conduct business is a tactical win. Just because you don't understand the reason, doesn't mean there is no reason. There's always a reason.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8562
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 01:39:37 -
[48] - Quote
Best way to deal with it is not to fight them. Blankey highsec deccing is bottom feeding highsec PVP. Imagine gate camping with no risk of BLOPS/Super drops and bubbles. Highsec deccers are in highsec for the same reason their prey is: they can't handle low and null.
(Those that can handle null because their mains are in null are likely too bored out there and need some easy pew)
Fighting back will only garner you more decs because now you have "provided content". So the only thing you can do is deny them that one thing they bothered to care about.
And THAT is Eve after all: winning the game by denying the playing of the game.
Disband the corp or find some other game to sub to.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Ro Fenrios
Armilies Corporation Circle-Of-Two
243
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 05:35:55 -
[49] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Best way to deal with it is not to fight them. Blankey highsec deccing is bottom feeding highsec PVP. Imagine gate camping with no risk of BLOPS/Super drops and bubbles. Highsec deccers are in highsec for the same reason their prey is: they can't handle low and null.
(Those that can handle null because their mains are in null are likely too bored out there and need some easy pew)
Fighting back will only garner you more decs because now you have "provided content". So the only thing you can do is deny them that one thing they bothered to care about.
And THAT is Eve after all: winning the game by denying the playing of the game.
Disband the corp or find some other game to sub to.
What if you like your corp or its name? Disbanding or curling up into a ball will get you nowhere. To progress in this game one has to adapt, find solution to obstacles and learn from experience. Especially if these guys are decced by CODE, which is like +û tier threat at best as an wartarget.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8562
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 07:32:28 -
[50] - Quote
Ro Fenrios wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Best way to deal with it is not to fight them. Blankey highsec deccing is bottom feeding highsec PVP. Imagine gate camping with no risk of BLOPS/Super drops and bubbles. Highsec deccers are in highsec for the same reason their prey is: they can't handle low and null.
(Those that can handle null because their mains are in null are likely too bored out there and need some easy pew)
Fighting back will only garner you more decs because now you have "provided content". So the only thing you can do is deny them that one thing they bothered to care about.
And THAT is Eve after all: winning the game by denying the playing of the game.
Disband the corp or find some other game to sub to. What if you like your corp or its name? Disbanding or curling up into a ball will get you nowhere. To progress in this game one has to adapt, find solution to obstacles and learn from experience. Especially if these guys are decced by CODE, which is like +û tier threat at best as an wartarget.
It's all just space pixels, we are told.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Circle-Of-Two
4397
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 09:37:46 -
[51] - Quote
I heard Armil is infact recruiting?
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
3207
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 10:59:35 -
[52] - Quote
Reasons I have been war decked 1. Because I was spotted webbing an Orca by a CEO who thought I was dumb enough to do it when at war. 2. Because I took out a Ganker POS and people thought I would give content, sadly my fellow players were not interested 3. Because I was in local and Tora decided to go on a mass war dec spree, followed by a CODE war dec two minutes later 4. Because I posted in C&P 5. Ages ago because someone was mining in a system and the guy thought it was a good idea, he regretted it...
Since that time my little stalker tried to get me war decked but the mercs refused because I was not worth it, in other words difficult to catch, don't take stupid risks and am very capable of blowing them up, he seemed to think that telling me that would annoy me, when in fact I knew why I was not war decked.
One of the war decs, I analysed them and then played with them on the Jita undock in their weakest period cutting down their number of kills on the undock to hardly any, they dropped that war dec, though they did tell me it was good resistance which I respected them for that, I was in admiration of their Nestor ball too.
During my war dec after the ganker POS was taken down I had something in space and the POS managed to get two kills on war deckers.
Reasons I have war decked 1. To remove a gankers POS in Niarja, well that was more joining in as allies to remove that POS 2. To get a POCO owner to reduce their tax rate which worked.
Anyway, it depends what you can do in the game, if you can PvP then speak to others that are war decked and work together, use neutral logi killers to take out their neutral RR, if you have no PvP skills and don't have friends then avoid, close corp etc. And for the love of space pixels do not use the pipes, main hubs and main mission hubs...
And a big shout out to Cavemen for showing how it can be done, and a respectful wave at NaturalClonekiller for giving them respect for that.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
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Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
149
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 11:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ro Fenrios wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Best way to deal with it is not to fight them. Blankey highsec deccing is bottom feeding highsec PVP. Imagine gate camping with no risk of BLOPS/Super drops and bubbles. Highsec deccers are in highsec for the same reason their prey is: they can't handle low and null.
(Those that can handle null because their mains are in null are likely too bored out there and need some easy pew)
Fighting back will only garner you more decs because now you have "provided content". So the only thing you can do is deny them that one thing they bothered to care about.
And THAT is Eve after all: winning the game by denying the playing of the game.
Disband the corp or find some other game to sub to. What if you like your corp or its name? Disbanding or curling up into a ball will get you nowhere. To progress in this game one has to adapt, find solution to obstacles and learn from experience. Especially if these guys are decced by CODE, which is like +û tier threat at best as an wartarget.
Dude told you why dropping corp, or otherwise dodging the intended distraction is, in his opinion, the best action. You're denying peoples content. (In exactly the same way they wish to deny you yours.)
I'm not knocking EvE's playerbase here, but... let's for a brief moment stop gilding the lilly: People who play this MMO, specifically those playing "da bad gui" in highsec, are not doing it to be someones story about how "getting blown up that first time turned me on to pvp, and the greatness that is the games intricate community'.
No, they're playing specifically, and emphatically, to be a ****. To annoy, and to be a pain in someone else's life, however briefly.
It's a fair argument that the most appropriate counter is to frustrate the people trying to frustrate you, by passively denying them your attention. |
Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Circle-Of-Two
4399
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 17:34:58 -
[54] - Quote
Clockwork Robot wrote:Ro Fenrios wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Best way to deal with it is not to fight them. Blankey highsec deccing is bottom feeding highsec PVP. Imagine gate camping with no risk of BLOPS/Super drops and bubbles. Highsec deccers are in highsec for the same reason their prey is: they can't handle low and null.
(Those that can handle null because their mains are in null are likely too bored out there and need some easy pew)
Fighting back will only garner you more decs because now you have "provided content". So the only thing you can do is deny them that one thing they bothered to care about.
And THAT is Eve after all: winning the game by denying the playing of the game.
Disband the corp or find some other game to sub to. What if you like your corp or its name? Disbanding or curling up into a ball will get you nowhere. To progress in this game one has to adapt, find solution to obstacles and learn from experience. Especially if these guys are decced by CODE, which is like +û tier threat at best as an wartarget. Dude told you why dropping corp, or otherwise dodging the intended distraction is, in his opinion, the best action. You're denying peoples content. (In exactly the same way they wish to deny you yours.) I'm not knocking EvE's playerbase here, but... let's for a brief moment stop gilding the lilly: People who play this MMO, specifically those playing "da bad gui" in highsec, are not doing it to be someones story about how "getting blown up that first time turned me on to pvp, and the greatness that is the games intricate community'. No, they're playing specifically, and emphatically, to be a ****. To annoy, and to be a pain in someone else's life, however briefly. It's a fair argument that the most appropriate counter is to frustrate the people trying to frustrate you, by passively denying them your attention. I beg to differ sir. I specifically went through my kill mails and struck up conversations with all newer players in an attempt to get them to understand the game and PvP. With a semi reasonable success rate too
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
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Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
150
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 18:20:49 -
[55] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Clockwork Robot wrote:Ro Fenrios wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Best way to deal with it is not to fight them. Blankey highsec deccing is bottom feeding highsec PVP. Imagine gate camping with no risk of BLOPS/Super drops and bubbles. Highsec deccers are in highsec for the same reason their prey is: they can't handle low and null.
(Those that can handle null because their mains are in null are likely too bored out there and need some easy pew)
Fighting back will only garner you more decs because now you have "provided content". So the only thing you can do is deny them that one thing they bothered to care about.
And THAT is Eve after all: winning the game by denying the playing of the game.
Disband the corp or find some other game to sub to. What if you like your corp or its name? Disbanding or curling up into a ball will get you nowhere. To progress in this game one has to adapt, find solution to obstacles and learn from experience. Especially if these guys are decced by CODE, which is like +û tier threat at best as an wartarget. Dude told you why dropping corp, or otherwise dodging the intended distraction is, in his opinion, the best action. You're denying peoples content. (In exactly the same way they wish to deny you yours.) I'm not knocking EvE's playerbase here, but... let's for a brief moment stop gilding the lilly: People who play this MMO, specifically those playing "da bad gui" in highsec, are not doing it to be someones story about how "getting blown up that first time turned me on to pvp, and the greatness that is the games intricate community'. No, they're playing specifically, and emphatically, to be a ****. To annoy, and to be a pain in someone else's life, however briefly. It's a fair argument that the most appropriate counter is to frustrate the people trying to frustrate you, by passively denying them your attention. I beg to differ sir. I specifically went through my kill mails and struck up conversations with all newer players in an attempt to get them to understand the game and PvP. With a semi reasonable success rate too
I did not state that the "newbro shepherding" experience was entirely ficticious... Merely that it was rare enough to be the "proof" of its absence.
And Ive personally mailed everyone that ever exploded me, and never gotten a reply. :-( I'd be willing to accept your anti-matter, Nor. |
Moon Moon Burdy
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
261
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 19:46:30 -
[56] - Quote
Clockwork Robot wrote:Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Clockwork Robot wrote:Ro Fenrios wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Best way to deal with it is not to fight them. Blankey highsec deccing is bottom feeding highsec PVP. Imagine gate camping with no risk of BLOPS/Super drops and bubbles. Highsec deccers are in highsec for the same reason their prey is: they can't handle low and null.
(Those that can handle null because their mains are in null are likely too bored out there and need some easy pew)
Fighting back will only garner you more decs because now you have "provided content". So the only thing you can do is deny them that one thing they bothered to care about.
And THAT is Eve after all: winning the game by denying the playing of the game.
Disband the corp or find some other game to sub to. What if you like your corp or its name? Disbanding or curling up into a ball will get you nowhere. To progress in this game one has to adapt, find solution to obstacles and learn from experience. Especially if these guys are decced by CODE, which is like +û tier threat at best as an wartarget. Dude told you why dropping corp, or otherwise dodging the intended distraction is, in his opinion, the best action. You're denying peoples content. (In exactly the same way they wish to deny you yours.) I'm not knocking EvE's playerbase here, but... let's for a brief moment stop gilding the lilly: People who play this MMO, specifically those playing "da bad gui" in highsec, are not doing it to be someones story about how "getting blown up that first time turned me on to pvp, and the greatness that is the games intricate community'. No, they're playing specifically, and emphatically, to be a ****. To annoy, and to be a pain in someone else's life, however briefly. It's a fair argument that the most appropriate counter is to frustrate the people trying to frustrate you, by passively denying them your attention. I beg to differ sir. I specifically went through my kill mails and struck up conversations with all newer players in an attempt to get them to understand the game and PvP. With a semi reasonable success rate too I did not state that the "newbro shepherding" experience was entirely ficticious... Merely that it was rare enough to be the "proof" of its absence. And Ive personally mailed everyone that ever exploded me, and never gotten a reply. :-( I'd be willing to accept your anti-matter, Nor.
This was funny for me to read. I'm one of those "rare" people who got newbro shepherded by the Devils back in 2015. There's a nifty write up of the experience. Check it out!
I'll bet it happens a lot more than you think.
Things that went boom
Storytime with Moon Moon New stories semi frequently-ish!
Promising Young Murderer, Education Appreciated.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8565
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 23:29:28 -
[57] - Quote
Ro Fenrios wrote:Loki does not follow.
And that one sentence right there should be the shining monument that everything a highsec wardeccer is all about and what they are made of.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8565
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 23:35:30 -
[58] - Quote
Clockwork Robot wrote:Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Clockwork Robot wrote:Ro Fenrios wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Best way to deal with it is not to fight them. Blankey highsec deccing is bottom feeding highsec PVP. Imagine gate camping with no risk of BLOPS/Super drops and bubbles. Highsec deccers are in highsec for the same reason their prey is: they can't handle low and null.
(Those that can handle null because their mains are in null are likely too bored out there and need some easy pew)
Fighting back will only garner you more decs because now you have "provided content". So the only thing you can do is deny them that one thing they bothered to care about.
And THAT is Eve after all: winning the game by denying the playing of the game.
Disband the corp or find some other game to sub to. What if you like your corp or its name? Disbanding or curling up into a ball will get you nowhere. To progress in this game one has to adapt, find solution to obstacles and learn from experience. Especially if these guys are decced by CODE, which is like +û tier threat at best as an wartarget. Dude told you why dropping corp, or otherwise dodging the intended distraction is, in his opinion, the best action. You're denying peoples content. (In exactly the same way they wish to deny you yours.) I'm not knocking EvE's playerbase here, but... let's for a brief moment stop gilding the lilly: People who play this MMO, specifically those playing "da bad gui" in highsec, are not doing it to be someones story about how "getting blown up that first time turned me on to pvp, and the greatness that is the games intricate community'. No, they're playing specifically, and emphatically, to be a ****. To annoy, and to be a pain in someone else's life, however briefly. It's a fair argument that the most appropriate counter is to frustrate the people trying to frustrate you, by passively denying them your attention. I beg to differ sir. I specifically went through my kill mails and struck up conversations with all newer players in an attempt to get them to understand the game and PvP. With a semi reasonable success rate too I did not state that the "newbro shepherding" experience was entirely ficticious... Merely that it was rare enough to be the "proof" of its absence. And Ive personally mailed everyone that ever exploded me, and never gotten a reply. :-( I'd be willing to accept your anti-matter, Nor.
It used to be more common during the golden age of MMOs but it does still happen. Depends on who you are dealing with. Sometimes you get people who come to play a game and want everybody to enjoy it and sometimes you get people who are off their meds.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Circle-Of-Two
4401
|
Posted - 2017.06.10 00:07:13 -
[59] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
It used to be more common during the golden age of MMOs but it does still happen. Depends on who you are dealing with. Sometimes you get people who come to play a game and want everybody to enjoy it and sometimes you get people who are off their meds.
Can't we be a bit of both?
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8568
|
Posted - 2017.06.10 08:13:08 -
[60] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
It used to be more common during the golden age of MMOs but it does still happen. Depends on who you are dealing with. Sometimes you get people who come to play a game and want everybody to enjoy it and sometimes you get people who are off their meds.
Can't we be a bit of both?
oh pshaw
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
111
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 11:40:53 -
[61] - Quote
Natural CloneKiller wrote:CMDR-HerpyDerpy Hurishima wrote:You could have some fun by getting your entire corp together in cheap pvp fit ships and going out on a fuckfest on them XD say gf in local if you lose and **** :p would be a fun investment in their time and they might leave you alone if you **** on them So true. Fight back and have some fun.
Not really. In this siduation the defenders have nothing to gain by combat. In most cases we are talking about hisec corps with low skilled characters and small wallets. Even if they did field a viable composition to effectively engage, there is still the sticking point in that they have no clear objectives which can be secured through such actions. Espeically when the impact of the wardec can be ENTIERLY MITIGATED by using neutral or NPC alts for trade and haulage.
EVE is one of those games which seems to accept and even encourage mismatched engagements - and this is in part due to the attitudes of it's player base. Who seem to worship their killboards without any consideration of the respective combat effectiveness of the beligerents. In such a game knowing which fights to take, and evading those you shouldn't are necessary combat skills.
By engaging the mercs you are giving them exactly what they want. The simplest and wisest course of action is simply to evade their efforts and let them die of boredom.
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Aeryn Maricadie
Doin It Wrong Late Night Overheating
34
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 13:31:59 -
[62] - Quote
I thought wardecs cost like 50mil |
Toxic Yaken
The Dickwad Squad Rote Kapelle
203
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 13:34:43 -
[63] - Quote
Aeryn Maricadie wrote:I thought wardecs cost like 50mil
They can range from 50m to 500m based on the size of the corporation/alliance getting wardec'd.
Curator of the Wardec Project - Join our Discord to join the discussions about Wardecs
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Omar Alharazaad
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3458
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 15:11:24 -
[64] - Quote
It gets better than that. If you're actively hunting a corp for example, I dunno, because you've been paid to... the costs go up. Say your target corp has 100 members. Also, lets suppose that the wardeccing corp has 10 active members at any given time... generous, i know... but let's go there. Hunting corp wants to find people. Watchlist is gone. Hunting corp uses locator agents. Each of their ten people online uses two characters twice an hour to locate from two different agents each. That's 250k per use. So, speaking of course completely hypothetical... or maybe from direct experience, each player is burning 2 million isk per hour trying to find someone who is not docked in a station.... because you don't know if they are online or not, so docked tells you jack. They're madly rolling the dice in hopes of finding someone who is in space. Now that 2 million isk only gets you the lowdown on 8 people, for that hour (or within five minutes). So, with ten and their altts, you can get the passive location of 80 of the 100 players in that corp for a mere cost of 20 million ISK. Unfortunately, most of these people are offline, so if you do not by some miracle score a hit with your locator you repeat the process, prioritizing the few that you missed in the first place. This is for a 100 man corp. Now... let it sink in the effort and ISK sink for trying to find a viable target in a corp of 300... or maybe 500, or a thousand?
It's not worth it anymore. Before the watchlist changes the ISK sink for locates are significant but manageable. Now, screw it, don't bother, just hump the pipes and hubs or find someone with a structure.... maybe they'll scout out the system your corp has it's office in and see what's going on there. Maybe a browse on the killboards to see where you like to die.
If you die to a war dec in high sec now you are bad and you should feel bad for being so bad. Douse yourself in shamepoo and cry in the corner of the shower because you suck. I don't mean that metaphorically, it can be proven mathematically on a freaking Etch A Sketch.
It Is Your Fault.
The only fix that will correct this is for you to stop being bad.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Omar Alharazaad
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3459
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 15:24:44 -
[65] - Quote
Addendum. BUT MAH STRUCTURE!!!!
Devils and Cavemen have already very eloquently demonstrated what happens if you organize a coordinated defense of your structure. The evil mercs and their super heretical neutral logi DIE.
There is a catch, though. You have to WORK to make this happen. As a former merc who took part in many a structure bash I can tell you with absolute certainty that 19 out ot 20 of those structures died unmanned, alone in the dark... wailing for help from their owners. Said owners decided to dock up for the war and play GTA or world of tanks or some other ****... They lost their things because they couldn't be arsed to put for the effort to keep them. And the people who tore em down are the villains?
Hardly.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
2327
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 02:43:53 -
[66] - Quote
Addendum To Omar's Rant:
And what makes it even harder to use locater agents is that As Far As I Know, if someone is docked up in a Citadel or Engineering Complex, they might as well be in a wormhole system.
IE, the locater agent reports 'out of area of influence'.
Which makes level 3/4 locater agents USELESS.
Also also, structure bashes and gate camps are the PVP version of mining........they are Teh Ebil.
Thanks, CCP.
*gives Hilmar The Bird*
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
Omar Alharazaad
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3469
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 03:40:16 -
[67] - Quote
Huh. Did not know that bit about locators and citadels. Sounds like they just haven't touched the code for locator agents since before they added wormholes, so if they get a response they don't understand it's just 'out of my area of influence'. It's too bad, because when they work properly they make for a viable and well-used isk sink. As it stands now, they are broken to the point of non-functionality due to the continued addition of new things that they don't understand.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Erin Davis
Commonwealth Mercenaries Vendetta Mercenary Group
86
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 05:04:45 -
[68] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Huh. Did not know that bit about locators and citadels. Sounds like they just haven't touched the code for locator agents since before they added wormholes, so if they get a response they don't understand it's just 'out of my area of influence'. It's too bad, because when they work properly they make for a viable and well-used isk sink. As it stands now, they are broken to the point of non-functionality due to the continued addition of new things that they don't understand.
Not true. It simply says they are in X system in space. |
Omar Alharazaad
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3470
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 05:17:18 -
[69] - Quote
ah, my learny bits are all aquiver.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
3225
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 05:51:57 -
[70] - Quote
I did post a few times in GD that people should go and sit in a WH system to be extra annoying when war decked, perhaps people are taking that advice, I just hope they are in something cloaky with a probe launcher with probes... I suggested it as part of the avoidance approach which was to wind up the merc trying to hunt because they would get unknown areas of space back when they looked and would think nah, won't war dec again because the target has access to WH space and can hang out there.
Also it would perhaps open up more interesting game play for them.
As almost all war deckers do no real target selection as such it is quite effective... And I did suggest that before the watch lists were removed by the way.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
|
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
2328
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 06:43:26 -
[71] - Quote
Erin Davis wrote: Not true. It simply says they are in X system in space.
Glad they fixed it.
Helps abit.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
Molly Metal
Project Alpha. A L P H A
23
|
Posted - 2017.06.18 13:00:26 -
[72] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:Zanar Skwigelf wrote:KnightGuard Fury wrote:why do you guys perma dec people for no reason? KnightGuard Fury wrote:theres literally no point except wasting our time. Is it no reason, or are they wasting your time? Please don't contradict yourself. Also, last I checked some people like shooting spaceships without having to travel far from Jita. yes, but when the people deccing dont kill most the people they war dec, why even dec at all?
Even though we haven't killed you guys often... we have killed you... and will continue to do so... warfare isn't just about blowing up a ship...sometimes it's more fun to "starve" your opponent until they submit... |
Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy The Bastard Cartel
699
|
Posted - 2017.06.18 21:20:04 -
[73] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Erin Davis wrote: Not true. It simply says they are in X system in space.
Glad they fixed it. Helps abit. I seem to remember reading this is on the 'fix it' list of structure fixes. That is, when you are docked in a citadel, you should show as 'docked up'.
Join Celtic Anarchy!
Sneaky bastard.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8600
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 17:02:43 -
[74] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Huh. Did not know that bit about locators and citadels. Sounds like they just haven't touched the code for locator agents since before they added wormholes, so if they get a response they don't understand it's just 'out of my area of influence'. It's too bad, because when they work properly they make for a viable and well-used isk sink. As it stands now, they are broken to the point of non-functionality due to the continued addition of new things that they don't understand.
This might explain why the graphic for entrance into a citadel is rather "wormholish". Chances are it's the same mechanic, being in a wormhole or in a citadel, as far as the locator agent is concerned. Appears it may have been addressed.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Dungheap
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2017.06.23 00:05:10 -
[75] - Quote
KnightGuard Fury wrote:ok to clear some things up:
1. some of my people are pvp'ers and some indy/miners 2. i have not been in the market in a while but have een building things and saving up. 3. we live in a low competition market and everyone and thier mothers are mostly miners/indy/mission runners. 4. our region is MH, the most lack luster region around.
no one has a real reason to hate us whether its me or anyone or thing else. **** all if i know why someone would really dec us besides looking for easy kills or just to annoy us.
5. you announce in teon local , you've cleared bosena of pirates , and it's now safe for missions and mining .. it sounds like you're an RP corp , who's looking for some pew . either of those are a good reason to be war dec'd ..
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Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
122
|
Posted - 2017.06.23 01:41:44 -
[76] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:It gets better than that. If you're actively hunting a corp for example, I dunno, because you've been paid to... the costs go up. Say your target corp has 100 members. Also, lets suppose that the wardeccing corp has 10 active members at any given time... generous, i know... but let's go there. Hunting corp wants to find people. Watchlist is gone. Hunting corp uses locator agents. Each of their ten people online uses two characters twice an hour to locate from two different agents each.
That's 250k per use. So, speaking of course completely hypothetical... or maybe from direct experience, each player is burning 2 million isk per hour trying to find someone who is not docked in a station.... because you don't know if they are online or not, so docked tells you jack. They're madly rolling the dice in hopes of finding someone who is in space. Now that 2 million isk only gets you the lowdown on 8 people, for that hour (or within five minutes).
....
Methinks your hunting skills need improvement if you require total reliance on locator agents to do your work for you. Finding out what sort of corporation you're dealing with, which systems they inhabit, and the activity levels of their membership is quite simple. All it requires is some zkillboard and statistics research on the corporation and it's members. Which should narrow your search to a selection of regions and likely systems.
With the additional use of some cargo scanning at major tradehubs to determine cargo types, and following said cargo ships back to their home system. Then putting some cloaking eyes on grid and in system it should be very easy to learn their movements and habits. Where they mine, and what sort of operations they run, and what assets they have. Follow this up with putting a spy in their corporation for best resutls in the weeks prior... If you aren't putting this level of effort into your reconnisance then your wardecs wont achieve the desired results.
I think you need to think less like a "PvP'er" and more like a war-fighter - and the basic fundamental of war is that intelligence is king. You can't shoot what you can't see. Futhermore, the lack of information, during war, can kill you.
|
Khromius
Commonwealth Mercenaries Vendetta Mercenary Group
109
|
Posted - 2017.06.23 02:48:13 -
[77] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:It gets better than that. If you're actively hunting a corp for example, I dunno, because you've been paid to... the costs go up. Say your target corp has 100 members. Also, lets suppose that the wardeccing corp has 10 active members at any given time... generous, i know... but let's go there. Hunting corp wants to find people. Watchlist is gone. Hunting corp uses locator agents. Each of their ten people online uses two characters twice an hour to locate from two different agents each.
That's 250k per use. So, speaking of course completely hypothetical... or maybe from direct experience, each player is burning 2 million isk per hour trying to find someone who is not docked in a station.... because you don't know if they are online or not, so docked tells you jack. They're madly rolling the dice in hopes of finding someone who is in space. Now that 2 million isk only gets you the lowdown on 8 people, for that hour (or within five minutes).
.... Methinks your hunting skills need improvement if you require total reliance on locator agents to do your work for you. Finding out what sort of corporation you're dealing with, which systems they inhabit, and the activity levels of their membership is quite simple. All it requires is some zkillboard and statistics research on the corporation and it's members. Which should narrow your search to a selection of regions and likely systems. With the additional use of some cargo scanning at major tradehubs to determine cargo types, and following said cargo ships back to their home system. Then putting some cloaking eyes on grid and in system it should be very easy to learn their movements and habits. Where they mine, and what sort of operations they run, and what assets they have. Follow this up with putting a spy in their corporation for best resutls in the weeks prior... If you aren't putting this level of effort into your reconnisance then your wardecs wont achieve the desired results. I think you need to think less like a "PvP'er" and more like a war-fighter - and the basic fundamental of war is that intelligence is king. You can't shoot what you can't see. Futhermore, the lack of information, during war, can kill you.
And you speak from experience? |
Omar Alharazaad
Dissidence Dawn The-Culture
3500
|
Posted - 2017.06.23 03:25:08 -
[78] - Quote
This method isn't bad, if you're just going to war with a single established entity for an extended period of time. I thoroughly endorse it if it's just your corp dealing with a rival for reasons.
However, in the case of merc alliances that have anywhere from a handful to several dozen wars active at the same time... this just doesn't work.
Also, there is the whole factor of an employer wanting a war put on their competition and you coming back to them with 'sure, it'll only be two to three weeks of legwork and then we can start'. I'm sure they'll be overjoyed.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
164
|
Posted - 2017.06.23 10:13:29 -
[79] - Quote
Khromius wrote:Marcus Binchiette wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:It gets better than that. If you're actively hunting a corp for example, I dunno, because you've been paid to... the costs go up. Say your target corp has 100 members. Also, lets suppose that the wardeccing corp has 10 active members at any given time... generous, i know... but let's go there. Hunting corp wants to find people. Watchlist is gone. Hunting corp uses locator agents. Each of their ten people online uses two characters twice an hour to locate from two different agents each.
That's 250k per use. So, speaking of course completely hypothetical... or maybe from direct experience, each player is burning 2 million isk per hour trying to find someone who is not docked in a station.... because you don't know if they are online or not, so docked tells you jack. They're madly rolling the dice in hopes of finding someone who is in space. Now that 2 million isk only gets you the lowdown on 8 people, for that hour (or within five minutes).
.... Methinks your hunting skills need improvement if you require total reliance on locator agents to do your work for you. Finding out what sort of corporation you're dealing with, which systems they inhabit, and the activity levels of their membership is quite simple. All it requires is some zkillboard and statistics research on the corporation and it's members. Which should narrow your search to a selection of regions and likely systems. With the additional use of some cargo scanning at major tradehubs to determine cargo types, and following said cargo ships back to their home system. Then putting some cloaking eyes on grid and in system it should be very easy to learn their movements and habits. Where they mine, and what sort of operations they run, and what assets they have. Follow this up with putting a spy in their corporation for best resutls in the weeks prior... If you aren't putting this level of effort into your reconnisance then your wardecs wont achieve the desired results. I think you need to think less like a "PvP'er" and more like a war-fighter - and the basic fundamental of war is that intelligence is king. You can't shoot what you can't see. Futhermore, the lack of information, during war, can kill you. And you speak from experience?
Poor form, man. Argue the concept, not the poster. If you have experience and know that his plan isn't viable, just say that. What you're doing here is about as interesting as Armoury Trolling. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
2360
|
Posted - 2017.06.23 12:11:08 -
[80] - Quote
Khromius wrote:Marcus Binchiette wrote:wisdom And you speak from experience?
I can, and he's right.
But right now the best way is to simply infiltrate the target corp with a spai.
There are also workarounds to losing watchlist ( you can still find out if someone is online...) but they are...tedious.
But yes, all of this takes time, and if you are McDeccing half the trade hub, you probably are going to have problems.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
|
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
123
|
Posted - 2017.06.23 12:24:42 -
[81] - Quote
Sure, I understand that. I'm just saying that you get what you put into it. So, if you're going for quantity over quality of wardecs then you're more likely to be engaged in a 'fishing expedition'. Whereby you camp target rich systems in the hopes of finding a kill.
If that works for you then by all means go for it. Though, it always amazes me how susceptible we all are to our own habits. A little knowledge, a little luck, and some educated guesswork can go a long way.
I mean. Heck, if you gave each of your members the assignment of scoping out a target. Maybe a couple of hours work with an alt over a week or two. You might get some pretty damned interesting results - and if you pay your hunters a bonus based on the outcomes of their respective wars the incentive would be there... Maybe if your merc corp got known for the ferocity of its wardecs people would pay more for your services. Just a thought. |
Lord Razpataz
Dissidence Dawn The-Culture
572
|
Posted - 2017.06.23 23:34:53 -
[82] - Quote
Marcus Binchiette wrote:Sure, I understand that. I'm just saying that you get what you put into it. So, if you're going for quantity over quality of wardecs then you're more likely to be engaged in a 'fishing expedition'. Whereby you camp target rich systems in the hopes of finding a kill.
If that works for you then by all means go for it. Though, it always amazes me how susceptible we all are to our own habits. A little knowledge, a little luck, and some educated guesswork can go a long way.
I mean. Heck, if you gave each of your members the assignment of scoping out a target. Maybe a couple of hours work with an alt over a week or two. You might get some pretty damned interesting results - and if you pay your hunters a bonus based on the outcomes of their respective wars the incentive would be there... Maybe if your merc corp got known for the ferocity of its wardecs people would pay more for your services. Just a thought.
In a perfect world.. yes.
But... from experience from running Devils for 6 years doing highsec merc jobs I have to say it is not that simple. And I've had this discussion with people several times over the last year.. that apparently know better how mercs in eve operate.
But since you seem to know how it should done I have some questions:
(hypothetically, you are a CEO of a well known 50 man alliance with 10-20% activity)
1, How many contracts would you take on at the same time? 2, How many wars would you need to keep your guys fed with content/kills? Or what other content to keep them busy? 3, How long would you need for you research period before you could dec the target? 4, How much would you pay your hunters? 5, And finally.. how much would all that work cost per contract?
I tried my best holding on to the old school hunting but for the last 3 years most merc entities have chosen the easy way, aka blanket decs. That trend started way before the watchlist change, but after now the only viable way to do wardecs. Your way.. my way.. is just to much work for the members. Trust me.. I've tried. |
Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
3328
|
Posted - 2017.06.24 08:39:51 -
[83] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Marcus Binchiette wrote:Sure, I understand that. I'm just saying that you get what you put into it. So, if you're going for quantity over quality of wardecs then you're more likely to be engaged in a 'fishing expedition'. Whereby you camp target rich systems in the hopes of finding a kill.
If that works for you then by all means go for it. Though, it always amazes me how susceptible we all are to our own habits. A little knowledge, a little luck, and some educated guesswork can go a long way.
I mean. Heck, if you gave each of your members the assignment of scoping out a target. Maybe a couple of hours work with an alt over a week or two. You might get some pretty damned interesting results - and if you pay your hunters a bonus based on the outcomes of their respective wars the incentive would be there... Maybe if your merc corp got known for the ferocity of its wardecs people would pay more for your services. Just a thought. In a perfect world.. yes. But... from experience from running Devils for 6 years doing highsec merc jobs I have to say it is not that simple. And I've had this discussion with people several times over the last year.. that apparently know better how mercs in eve operate. But since you seem to know how it should done I have some questions: (hypothetically, you are a CEO of a well known 50 man alliance with 10-20% activity) 1, How many contracts would you take on at the same time? 2, How many wars would you need to keep your guys fed with content/kills? Or what other content to keep them busy? 3, How long would you need for you research period before you could dec the target? 4, How much would you pay your hunters? 5, And finally.. how much would all that work cost per contract? I tried my best holding on to the old school hunting but for the last 3 years most merc entities have chosen the easy way, aka blanket decs. That trend started way before the watchlist change, but after now the only viable way to do wardecs. Your way.. my way.. is just to much work for the members. Trust me.. I've tried.
I was telling people that the trend started long before the watch list changes and I got told I was talking pap, I am glad to see you say that.
And I would agree that this is a lot of work, having done the research observation part myself on a few targets that a friend wanted blown up for revenge.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
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Omar Alharazaad
Dissidence Dawn The-Culture
3506
|
Posted - 2017.06.24 09:19:53 -
[84] - Quote
The full on deep legwork approach to war is a great idea in my opinion when it comes to a planned out long-term conflict with perhaps a rival corp that's making life unpleasant for you. This is exactly how you deal with matters on your own terms. As far as merc work it just doesn't work.
Raz hit on an important point there when it comes down to the payment of hunters.
Analogy, years ago my father (who you may recall from the semi-infamous squirrel post) was running a T-shirt graphics design business. He took great pride in the quality of his work, which to be fair was superb. Unfortunately he was using vinyl transfers for ALL of his shirts. Now, to process a proper vinyl transfer requires a patient individual who is willing to take a razor sharp knife and excise everything that is not part of the design from the transfer plate. This was time consuming, to the tune of nearly an hour per transfer. Eventually I had to ask, after spending many hours hunched over and picking away with my little knife, 'hey... dad? How much do you charge per shirt on these?'. His response was that of a very reasonable price when it came to such shirts. I blinked. I braced myself. I spoke. 'Dad, you do realize that what you charge for one of these shirts is less than what a menial laborer would expect as compensation for the time it took them to finish the job?' He just looked at me. Then comprehension set in. There was literally no way for him to turn a profit this way unless he either did the job himself or conscripted family to perform the labor for free. Fortunately, I had previous experience on the matter and explained the concept of screen printing to him... but I digress.
Folks talk about opportunity cost when referring to mining. This whole notion that the time you spend gathering those minerals is EXACTLY what makes them not actually free. The same can be applied when it comes to wardec costs. Eventually the labor costs to properly prosecute an effective war become so high that the consumer will no longer be able to afford it.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
3328
|
Posted - 2017.06.24 10:10:39 -
[85] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:The full on deep legwork approach to war is a great idea in my opinion when it comes to a planned out long-term conflict with perhaps a rival corp that's making life unpleasant for you. This is exactly how you deal with matters on your own terms. As far as merc work it just doesn't work.
Raz hit on an important point there when it comes down to the payment of hunters.
Analogy, years ago my father (who you may recall from the semi-infamous squirrel post) was running a T-shirt graphics design business. He took great pride in the quality of his work, which to be fair was superb. Unfortunately he was using vinyl transfers for ALL of his shirts. Now, to process a proper vinyl transfer requires a patient individual who is willing to take a razor sharp knife and excise everything that is not part of the design from the transfer plate. This was time consuming, to the tune of nearly an hour per transfer. Eventually I had to ask, after spending many hours hunched over and picking away with my little knife, 'hey... dad? How much do you charge per shirt on these?'. His response was that of a very reasonable price when it came to such shirts. I blinked. I braced myself. I spoke. 'Dad, you do realize that what you charge for one of these shirts is less than what a menial laborer would expect as compensation for the time it took them to finish the job?' He just looked at me. Then comprehension set in. There was literally no way for him to turn a profit this way unless he either did the job himself or conscripted family to perform the labor for free. Fortunately, I had previous experience on the matter and explained the concept of screen printing to him... but I digress.
Folks talk about opportunity cost when referring to mining. This whole notion that the time you spend gathering those minerals is EXACTLY what makes them not actually free. The same can be applied when it comes to wardec costs. Eventually the labor costs to properly prosecute an effective war become so high that the consumer will no longer be able to afford it.
Omar, what that tells me is that a hunter killer group like DWA should be part of a larger less focused group such as VMG, where your more time expensive and difficult work would be supported by their blanket war decs and you would add value by the sheer fear factor that this large merc group does actually hunt instead of saying that they do and never in fact hunt except if it is a JF. There are such things as loss leaders that give value to the overall brand.
When I first started playing I was not aware of how much data was just handed to people on a plate, I was in NPC null and I was ratting, I thought well I need to hide my activity, so I blew up my wrecks, a week later while checking the map for kills I noticed that there was data on the number of NPC kills in system, I was pretty annoyed because it was just free intel enabling people to zero in on targets and I realised that this game was not quite what I thought it was, so at that point I monitored that map so that my kill rate of rats looked less attractive as compared to other systems.
It then becomes a matter of prespective in terms of what you are used to within the games mechanics. If the watch list had never existed in the prior format would you have developed into a hunter killer?
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
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Saeger1737
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2266
|
Posted - 2017.06.24 10:34:29 -
[86] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:The full on deep legwork approach to war is a great idea in my opinion when it comes to a planned out long-term conflict with perhaps a rival corp that's making life unpleasant for you. This is exactly how you deal with matters on your own terms. As far as merc work it just doesn't work.
Raz hit on an important point there when it comes down to the payment of hunters.
Analogy, years ago my father (who you may recall from the semi-infamous squirrel post) was running a T-shirt graphics design business. He took great pride in the quality of his work, which to be fair was superb. Unfortunately he was using vinyl transfers for ALL of his shirts. Now, to process a proper vinyl transfer requires a patient individual who is willing to take a razor sharp knife and excise everything that is not part of the design from the transfer plate. This was time consuming, to the tune of nearly an hour per transfer. Eventually I had to ask, after spending many hours hunched over and picking away with my little knife, 'hey... dad? How much do you charge per shirt on these?'. His response was that of a very reasonable price when it came to such shirts. I blinked. I braced myself. I spoke. 'Dad, you do realize that what you charge for one of these shirts is less than what a menial laborer would expect as compensation for the time it took them to finish the job?' He just looked at me. Then comprehension set in. There was literally no way for him to turn a profit this way unless he either did the job himself or conscripted family to perform the labor for free. Fortunately, I had previous experience on the matter and explained the concept of screen printing to him... but I digress.
Folks talk about opportunity cost when referring to mining. This whole notion that the time you spend gathering those minerals is EXACTLY what makes them not actually free. The same can be applied when it comes to wardec costs. Eventually the labor costs to properly prosecute an effective war become so high that the consumer will no longer be able to afford it. Omar, what that tells me is that a hunter killer group like DWA should be part of a larger less focused group such as VMG, where your more time expensive and difficult work would be supported by their blanket war decs and you would add value by the sheer fear factor that this large merc group does actually hunt instead of saying that they do and never in fact hunt except if it is a JF. There are such things as loss leaders that give value to the overall brand. When I first started playing I was not aware of how much data was just handed to people on a plate, I was in NPC null and I was ratting, I thought well I need to hide my activity, so I blew up my wrecks, a week later while checking the map for kills I noticed that there was data on the number of NPC kills in system, I was pretty annoyed because it was just free intel enabling people to zero in on targets and I realised that this game was not quite what I thought it was, so at that point I monitored that map so that my kill rate of rats looked less attractive as compared to other systems. It then becomes a matter of prespective in terms of what you are used to within the games mechanics. If the watch list had never existed in the prior format would you have developed into a hunter killer? Hunter killer would've still existed but would of just been for a specific time zone, making them the go to guy for time off the day and based off their successes so would the Merc corp or alliance reputation. If there was no watchlist prior I think there would be more goon Titans alive, I believe this is pretty much why the watchlist was changed, save the capitals, save the whales screw Everyone else.
MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
3328
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Posted - 2017.06.24 11:03:19 -
[87] - Quote
Saeger1737 wrote:Hunter killer would've still existed but would of just been for a specific time zone, making them the go to guy for time off the day and based off their successes so would the Merc corp or alliance reputation. If there was no watchlist prior I think there would be more goon Titans alive, I believe this is pretty much why the watchlist was changed, save the capitals, save the whales screw Everyone else.
It was more to do with stopping fights because people would stand down when all the caps started logging in, not to save capitals, in effect it did make null sec more interesting, but was another kick in the teeth for hisec. I keep hoping that CCP do something for those that actually hunt.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
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Lord Razpataz
Dissidence Dawn The-Culture
574
|
Posted - 2017.06.24 11:56:43 -
[88] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:The full on deep legwork approach to war is a great idea in my opinion when it comes to a planned out long-term conflict with perhaps a rival corp that's making life unpleasant for you. This is exactly how you deal with matters on your own terms. As far as merc work it just doesn't work.
Raz hit on an important point there when it comes down to the payment of hunters.
Analogy, years ago my father (who you may recall from the semi-infamous squirrel post) was running a T-shirt graphics design business. He took great pride in the quality of his work, which to be fair was superb. Unfortunately he was using vinyl transfers for ALL of his shirts. Now, to process a proper vinyl transfer requires a patient individual who is willing to take a razor sharp knife and excise everything that is not part of the design from the transfer plate. This was time consuming, to the tune of nearly an hour per transfer. Eventually I had to ask, after spending many hours hunched over and picking away with my little knife, 'hey... dad? How much do you charge per shirt on these?'. His response was that of a very reasonable price when it came to such shirts. I blinked. I braced myself. I spoke. 'Dad, you do realize that what you charge for one of these shirts is less than what a menial laborer would expect as compensation for the time it took them to finish the job?' He just looked at me. Then comprehension set in. There was literally no way for him to turn a profit this way unless he either did the job himself or conscripted family to perform the labor for free. Fortunately, I had previous experience on the matter and explained the concept of screen printing to him... but I digress.
Folks talk about opportunity cost when referring to mining. This whole notion that the time you spend gathering those minerals is EXACTLY what makes them not actually free. The same can be applied when it comes to wardec costs. Eventually the labor costs to properly prosecute an effective war become so high that the consumer will no longer be able to afford it. Omar, what that tells me is that a hunter killer group like DWA should be part of a larger less focused group such as VMG, where your more time expensive and difficult work would be supported by their blanket war decs and you would add value by the sheer fear factor that this large merc group does actually hunt instead of saying that they do and never in fact hunt except if it is a JF. There are such things as loss leaders that give value to the overall brand. When I first started playing I was not aware of how much data was just handed to people on a plate, I was in NPC null and I was ratting, I thought well I need to hide my activity, so I blew up my wrecks, a week later while checking the map for kills I noticed that there was data on the number of NPC kills in system, I was pretty annoyed because it was just free intel enabling people to zero in on targets and I realised that this game was not quite what I thought it was, so at that point I monitored that map so that my kill rate of rats looked less attractive as compared to other systems. It then becomes a matter of prespective in terms of what you are used to within the games mechanics. If the watch list had never existed in the prior format would you have developed into a hunter killer?
From experience people choose the easy way.. If a group of hunters have the option to have more content by sitting still and wait, they tend to do that.. Even the most skilled hunter will end up on a hub/gate with the other lazy *******...
There is a reason most merc groups these days have over 100 wars going, that is keep their lazy members fed with content. How long do you think you would work your ass off while seeing your buddies blapping low hanging big juicy fruit without moving a finger before joining them?
This is why we (Devils) prided ourself on just doing the old school hunting instead of joining the "new trend", just because our guys didnt have any other option.. with the few focused wars sitting still and wait was not an option, you would get less content by doing that. (I lost alot of players joining other mercs over the years because of that.) But I would claim I had the most dedicated hunters in highsec.
I would say the former hunters using watchlist as a tool was content creators, without said tool... less content is made for the guys who cant bother to put some work into their kills.
Oh and Drac.. I have never said the "Trend" is a new thing, the point of our previous discussions has been that its now the only viable option. How can I claim to have been against hubcamping and blanket decs since I've started without it being there? The "Trend" started with Privateers I think, then 0rphanage, then Marmite, and now eventually everyone |
Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
3328
|
Posted - 2017.06.24 12:28:31 -
[89] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:The full on deep legwork approach to war is a great idea in my opinion when it comes to a planned out long-term conflict with perhaps a rival corp that's making life unpleasant for you. This is exactly how you deal with matters on your own terms. As far as merc work it just doesn't work.
Raz hit on an important point there when it comes down to the payment of hunters.
Analogy, years ago my father (who you may recall from the semi-infamous squirrel post) was running a T-shirt graphics design business. He took great pride in the quality of his work, which to be fair was superb. Unfortunately he was using vinyl transfers for ALL of his shirts. Now, to process a proper vinyl transfer requires a patient individual who is willing to take a razor sharp knife and excise everything that is not part of the design from the transfer plate. This was time consuming, to the tune of nearly an hour per transfer. Eventually I had to ask, after spending many hours hunched over and picking away with my little knife, 'hey... dad? How much do you charge per shirt on these?'. His response was that of a very reasonable price when it came to such shirts. I blinked. I braced myself. I spoke. 'Dad, you do realize that what you charge for one of these shirts is less than what a menial laborer would expect as compensation for the time it took them to finish the job?' He just looked at me. Then comprehension set in. There was literally no way for him to turn a profit this way unless he either did the job himself or conscripted family to perform the labor for free. Fortunately, I had previous experience on the matter and explained the concept of screen printing to him... but I digress.
Folks talk about opportunity cost when referring to mining. This whole notion that the time you spend gathering those minerals is EXACTLY what makes them not actually free. The same can be applied when it comes to wardec costs. Eventually the labor costs to properly prosecute an effective war become so high that the consumer will no longer be able to afford it. Omar, what that tells me is that a hunter killer group like DWA should be part of a larger less focused group such as VMG, where your more time expensive and difficult work would be supported by their blanket war decs and you would add value by the sheer fear factor that this large merc group does actually hunt instead of saying that they do and never in fact hunt except if it is a JF. There are such things as loss leaders that give value to the overall brand. When I first started playing I was not aware of how much data was just handed to people on a plate, I was in NPC null and I was ratting, I thought well I need to hide my activity, so I blew up my wrecks, a week later while checking the map for kills I noticed that there was data on the number of NPC kills in system, I was pretty annoyed because it was just free intel enabling people to zero in on targets and I realised that this game was not quite what I thought it was, so at that point I monitored that map so that my kill rate of rats looked less attractive as compared to other systems. It then becomes a matter of prespective in terms of what you are used to within the games mechanics. If the watch list had never existed in the prior format would you have developed into a hunter killer? From experience people choose the easy way.. If a group of hunters have the option to have more content by sitting still and wait, they tend to do that.. Even the most skilled hunter will end up on a hub/gate with the other lazy *******... There is a reason most merc groups these days have over 100 wars going, that is keep their lazy members fed with content. How long do you think you would work your ass off while seeing your buddies blapping low hanging big juicy fruit without moving a finger before joining them? This is why we (Devils) prided ourself on just doing the old school hunting instead of joining the "new trend", just because our guys didnt have any other option.. with the few focused wars sitting still and wait was not an option, you would get less content by doing that. (I lost alot of players joining other mercs over the years because of that.) But I would claim I had the most dedicated hunters in highsec. I would say the former hunters using watchlist as a tool was content creators, without said tool... less content is made for the guys who cant bother to put some work into their kills. Oh and Drac.. I have never said the "Trend" is a new thing, the point of our previous discussions has been that its now the only viable option. How can I claim to have been against hubcamping and blanket decs since I've started without it being there? The "Trend" started with Privateers I think, then 0rphanage, then Marmite, and now eventually everyone
Yeah I agree, I prefer to hunt people coming into our pocket rather than going hunting out and about, which is more difficult.
Sorry if you thought I meant you, you never said it was not a trend before the watch list change, but Ralph did in previous threads that I talked about this happening before the watch list change and I had other people saying I was wrong, just good to see you state it so directly which I liked a lot. I should point out that I knew people who were in the Privateers and Orphanage.
Have you had anything back from CCP on this?
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
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Lord Razpataz
Dissidence Dawn The-Culture
575
|
Posted - 2017.06.24 13:09:58 -
[90] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Have you had anything back from CCP on this? Well.. after months of bitching on a respons on the feedback thread we got this a year ago. Since then its been there's nothing new.. other than repeats of the previous statement. |
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
3329
|
Posted - 2017.06.24 13:16:21 -
[91] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Have you had anything back from CCP on this? Well.. after months of bitching on a respons on the feedback thread we got this a year ago. Since then its been there's nothing new.. other than repeats of the previous statement.
Yeah I saw that and noted this:
Quote: We think there is some potential for the return of similar, but counterable, functionality in the future. When we have concrete designs we'll share them with you and be very interested in your feedback.
I was hoping they had moved a bit more on this, oh well...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
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