| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
LORD IZE
   |
Posted - 2007.05.18 13:05:00 -
[1]
CCP when are you going to acknowledge AFK Cloakers are the same as macro users, ie, people "playing" eve while actually NOT playing EVE? ITs BS that people can turn on their cloak and leave for the day immune to any form of interaction from people actually playing the game while they impact them.
At least give us a probe that may take 30 minutes for results so that this practice can be stopped. I have no problem with cloakers but AFK players are cheats and should be treated as such. |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 13:32:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: LORD IZE
CCP when are you going to acknowledge AFK Cloakers are the same as macro users, ie, people "playing" eve while actually NOT playing EVE? ITs BS that people can turn on their cloak and leave for the day immune to any form of interaction from people actually playing the game while they impact them.
At least give us a probe that may take 30 minutes for results so that this practice can be stopped. I have no problem with cloakers but AFK players are cheats and should be treated as such.
Why are they cheats? Because you can't shoot them? What is the point of being cloaked if you can be found? The game mechanics are fine and ships that fit a cloak are already nerfed.
Nor can they hurt you. If you are "afraid" of a cloaked ship in your 0.0 space or something like that do what you tell all of us Carebears in Empire to do: Don't fly afk and bring a friend for cover. I have zero sympathy for whining about not being able to do something because "we don't know where they are" or any such BS.
Enough of this game gets nerfed, leave it alone.
<----------->
Factional Warefare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Kramer Verone
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 18:27:00 -
[3]
a perfect example of someone abusing local
perhaps, ccp should investigate if cloakers that are a certain a.u away from stargates should be removed from local.
|
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 18:52:00 -
[4]
Great.. as usual we're going to have lots of people who use it arguing in favour and people who don't use it arguing against it, eh?
So much for that, and 'objectivity' in particular.
If CCP decides to change local, this issue will probably go away with it.
If CCP doesn't change local in a way that makes 'afk scouting' unfeasible, some means to detect afk cloakers might be needed.
I daresay 30min or 1h scan time would hardly make cloakers useless.
_________________________________
- People are people wherever you go - |
Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 19:42:00 -
[5]
Ummmm I cloak. Not AFK, mind you. Part of me feels dirty when I go take a bio break or whatever and KNOW that I can't be touched even if I'm the only blue in the system. I can chill out 500km off a stargate and monitor traffic and I can be 100% certain I won't get touched. Ever.
I think that's silly. Even the backstory doesn't really support it. Two of the three cloaks are imperfect prototypes. They shouldn't be perfect. The covert ops cloak... I'm torn. It SHOULD be a perfect cloak. But nothing in the game should be unbeatable.
I use NOS also but that doesn't mean i don't think it's overpowered against small ships.
------
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Drizit
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 00:17:00 -
[6]
So what is the difference between an AFK cloaker and someone who has docked and gone AFK? They are still logged in but still not playing. Are they also cheats? I run a mission and clear out a level but before I take the acceleration gate to the next level, I go and make a coffee. Am I a cheat as well then since I am effectively well off the normal routes or SS positions so it's extremely hard, if not impossible to scan me out?
In every case above, the player is in local, is AFK and pretty much out of scan range. So that makes a good 60% of Eve players cheats at some time or other according to your logic.
There is even a good chance that the player isn't cloaked, maybe they have found a near perfect SS that you have yet to figure out. I once sat in my alt account just off the grid above their POS and it took 5 hours for them to finally find me because nobody though to look that close to their own POS. Even then it was only because someone opened their ship scanner and saw me soon after they undocked (before the standard ship scanners were nerfed). Also probes only look on the horizontal plane so anything bove or below isn't seen. Take an inty and fly up or down on MWD for long enough and there's no probe that will find you, it doesn't need to be cloaked. What it needs is for probes to scan a globe rather than a flat plane.
Just because you can't find them, it doesn't mean they are cloaked at all so why nerf cloakers on an assumption?
--
|
Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 01:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Drizit
So what is the difference between an AFK cloaker and someone who has docked and gone AFK? They are still logged in but still not playing. Are they also cheats? I run a mission and clear out a level but before I take the acceleration gate to the next level, I go and make a coffee. Am I a cheat as well then since I am effectively well off the normal routes or SS positions so it's extremely hard, if not impossible to scan me out?
In every case above, the player is in local, is AFK and pretty much out of scan range. So that makes a good 60% of Eve players cheats at some time or other according to your logic.
There is even a good chance that the player isn't cloaked, maybe they have found a near perfect SS that you have yet to figure out. I once sat in my alt account just off the grid above their POS and it took 5 hours for them to finally find me because nobody though to look that close to their own POS. Even then it was only because someone opened their ship scanner and saw me soon after they undocked (before the standard ship scanners were nerfed). Also probes only look on the horizontal plane so anything bove or below isn't seen. Take an inty and fly up or down on MWD for long enough and there's no probe that will find you, it doesn't need to be cloaked. What it needs is for probes to scan a globe rather than a flat plane.
Just because you can't find them, it doesn't mean they are cloaked at all so why nerf cloakers on an assumption?
I will not speak or answer about your *views* as I don't feel strongly for either side of the argument.
But the information you provide is half false, half outdated, nothing accurate.
For starters, there is no "perfect safespot". Observators will find you anywhere given time. That has ALWAYS been the case and they always did work spherically, so the rest is moot anyway, BUT...
Second, someone that doesn't scan outside his own station to find you is an idiot, you're not smart hiding there. I know it's the first thing I scan.
Third, probes work spherically, not horizontally, at least not for a few months now - what a REVELATIONS that was I can only understand how you missed that if you have been away from the game. Even so, reading patch notes every now and then couldn't hurt.
Fourth, since the multiple-mwd nerf, an inty would take a few WEEKS at least to travel any meaningful distance talking about astronomic units (of course, since probes DO NOT scout horizontally but spherically, it is pointless anyway)
In short, I would suggest dusting off the new info and patch notes a bit...
|
Drizit
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 01:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Neuromandis
Third, probes work spherically, not horizontally, at least not for a few months now - what a REVELATIONS that was I can only understand how you missed that if you have been away from the game. Even so, reading patch notes every now and then couldn't hurt.
I was away for about 6 months with no internet. Prior to that, they always worked horizontally so they obviously changed things. I tried probes to find some things before my time offline and decided that my time spent training the skills was wasted since I couldn't get on the plane that I needed to scan on. Maybe it's time to dust off that probe launcher again and check the expiry date on those probes I packed away in the bottom of the station container.
Therefore it's possible to scan near the station now but unless you used the ship scanner before and looked in the right direction, it was near impossible before. The observator probe didn't operate back then as it does now either, drones were visible on ship scanner but not possible to probe for as an example.
It still doesn't alter the fact that someone AFK isn't really a risk so what does it matter if they are cloaked or not?
--
|
Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 08:48:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Neuromandis on 19/05/2007 08:46:45
Originally by: Drizit
I was away for about 6 months with no internet. Prior to that, they always worked horizontally so they obviously changed things. I tried probes to find some things before my time offline and decided that my time spent training the skills was wasted since I couldn't get on the plane that I needed to scan on. Maybe it's time to dust off that probe launcher again and check the expiry date on those probes I packed away in the bottom of the station container.
/me hands you the vacuum cleaner. Probes work like a charm now.
In fact I would say that they work too good. You can create practically system wide coverance in many cases, you need but a single probe to find anything and generally, they are a very very nice toy now. Of course now it is mainly character skill-based and not player skill-based, but you can't have everything. Happy probing.
|
BluOrange
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 10:12:00 -
[10]
AFK cloakers and logoffskis are two sides of the same coin, IMO.
I'd be in favour of being able to track down an AFK cloaker if we could also track down a logoffski.
------
Agony Unleashed is recruiting. |
|
|
Meditril
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 11:35:00 -
[11]
How do you know that a cloaker is AFK? Remove cloakers from Local and the problem is solved.
|
Major Stallion
The Dark Horses
Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 15:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Meditril
How do you know that a cloaker is AFK? Remove cloakers from Local and the problem is solved.
remove cloakers from local...lmfao. I can see the new FOTM now. Fully cloak fitted gangs disappearing from local. Your answer is most definitely NOT the solution.
|
PastaMadaFaka
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 16:44:00 -
[13]
Originally by: LORD IZE
CCP when are you going to acknowledge AFK Cloakers are the same as macro users, ie, people "playing" eve while actually NOT playing EVE? ITs BS that people can turn on their cloak and leave for the day immune to any form of interaction from people actually playing the game while they impact them.
At least give us a probe that may take 30 minutes for results so that this practice can be stopped. I have no problem with cloakers but AFK players are cheats and should be treated as such.
looolz
whats a cloak good for if u cant hide?
dont forget that a cloak kills ir scan resolution and ur speed if a cloaked bs uncloaks in ur mining belt u got 15 seconds to warp out assuming u are paying attention to ur overview and assuming that the bs cloaked pilot has the cloak skill at lvl5 so u got 15 secs + the targeting time of the said bs to start moving out ( if hes using a cheap cloak ie prototype version )
if its a cov ops ship well if ur mining in a hulk a buzzard would prob die from ur drones as for a bomber if u have decent resists and a decent booster on ur hulk u can always hold on and call help same goes if its a bs now if u are mining in a mining barge and not an exhumer its ur own fault for not having protection near u...
|
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 16:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Meditril
How do you know that a cloaker is AFK? Remove cloakers from Local and the problem is solved.
remove cloakers from local...lmfao. I can see the new FOTM now. Fully cloak fitted gangs disappearing from local. Your answer is most definitely NOT the solution.
Actually lets discuss this concept a bit. I'm basing my thoughts on these points.....
1) I do NOT want cloaks nerfed in any way. Contrary to the comment posted about me above, I *DO* use cloaks, but in exploration not 0.0 harrassment.
2) I don't care if they come up with a method of kicking AFK players, as long as it doesn't harm game-play for legitimate players
3) When someone logs in or logs out there is a moment in time that they can be probed. For login its about 45 seconds after you get the indication in Local. For logouts its about a minute before they "disappear". At least to my experience and comments from others.
4) Thje most common "beginning player" AFK ship is a Badger or other hauler fitted with a single miner1/2. This ship can fill its cargo hold with ore in about 1.5 hours and requires no interaction to do it. Hence 1.5 hours is the "baseline" for AFK detection.
5) Having a program push keys for you is a EULA violation
Based on the above, I would recommend an AFK timer that detects keyboard strokes. If there is no interaction in 1.5 hours (chat windows, module activation, market, etc) it performs a disconnect, forcing the player into emergency warp and standard one minute logout. They can be probed in this time if you are positioned correctly. They ALSO disappear from local when this happens, letting you KNOW that they are shifting from normal to AFK mode.
Known fact: When they log back in, they show up in local and are vulnerable to probing until they can re-activate their cloak module. Add a slight change to the module would prohibit it from being activated within 60 seconds of login, giving the chance to be able to be scanned/probed. This can give quick acting defenders the chance to find them.
This keeps an AFK player from being AFK; they have to interacrt periodically. But it does keep the system from nerfing "legitimate" uses of the cloak and doesn't punish newer players that are still trying to get their first few millions of ISK. If you have a ship that is CONSTANTLY in local then: They are either usign a macro (petition them), are account sharing (petition them) or are taking a nap and waking up every hour to click a key (petition them anyways, the GMs will hopefully try to contact them in the middle of their nap and apply the ban stick when they don't respond; ie macro).
In short I don't think that ACTIVE PLAYERS should get a nerf because the cloak is doing its job, but AFK players aren't "playing"; I don't care about them 
<----------->
Factional Warefare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
LORD IZE
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 21:35:00 -
[15]
Edited by: LORD IZE on 19/05/2007 21:41:53
This isn't a complaint against cloaks. IT is a complaint against AFK cloakers which is no different than using a macro to play the game when you are not at your comp. People who enter a system, cloak then leave their comp for an extended period of time( ie. > 30 minutes), simply as a means to harrass people actually in the system and playing the game is not right. IF macro users are doing something wrong by setting up side programs to play eve while they are not present at their computers than afk cloakers are soing the same thing by taking advantage of a flaw in the game mechanics.
I also don't think active players need to get a nerf. A specialized three probe idea, first probe, detectes all cloaked in system, takes 30 minutes for scan results, allows warp to within 5 au, second probe takes 30 minutes, scan range 6 au, allows warp to within 1 au, third probe takes 10 seconds, scan range 1.5 au, allows warp to 0. This process would allow any active player to avoid detection with very little effort(simply can't sit at same spot for an hour) and would allow finding afk cloakers that have been away for an hour or more. These would be specialize probes that have to be used in sequence, each being a prerequisiste for use of the other. wouldn't take a lot for ccp to implement and shouldn't change the game for cloakers as they current are used except for allowing a means to find afk cloakers. |
Angelus Xenotov
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 01:03:00 -
[16]
I mean, c'mon guys, use abit of that grey matter your mother gave you.
Afk cloaked in a system is the same as docking in a station and going Afk.
But, patently, if you're cloaked and afk, you're as bad as someone AUTOMATING MONEY MAKING OPERATIONS!
Duh!
|
LORD IZE
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 04:45:00 -
[17]
Edited by: LORD IZE on 20/05/2007 04:44:08
Originally by: Angelus Xenotov
Afk cloaked in a system is the same as docking in a station and going Afk. quote]
No its not the same. Docking in station and going afk is no big deal and has no impact on the game except to annoy corpies from time to time  |
Awox
Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 06:10:00 -
[18]
The only people who even care about AFK cloakers are macrominers and the like who want to be able to afk arkonor in "their 0.0 space" with a single BC/assaultfrig permatank to gang warp to the POS.
Or morons who think NPCing should be easy. There is no other reliable way to catch an NPCer other than to terrorize him with a cloak, so please STFU.
-
BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
Hittler's Borther
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 07:39:00 -
[19]
Ya i do agree that it make me mad to see afk cloakers we've spent hours trying to find em but no luck at all...Why not just add in a trigger for this problem...
Triger/ if "in 0.0-0.4"+Triger/ "if cloaked" "while no imput" for "time 180s"=Task/ "log off"
Simpe as that... I even use these parameter in my program and they show it works 100% no errors. PS: way different program too im sure of that though.
|
Cosmos Serendipity
Unfinium Corp
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 08:08:00 -
[20]
Damn......so I guess the guys who have a family and have a sudden emergency like "Kid just broke his leg, gotta run to the hospital no time to warp to a station...hey cloak button!" deserves and really needs to have his ship found and destroyed?
Not sure what the problem is if someone really needs to go afk for a little while and doesn't have time to dock. 
|
|
|
Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 12:27:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Neuromandis on 20/05/2007 12:25:38
Originally by: Cosmos Serendipity
Damn......so I guess the guys who have a family and have a sudden emergency like "Kid just broke his leg, gotta run to the hospital no time to warp to a station...hey cloak button!" deserves and really needs to have his ship found and destroyed?
Not sure what the problem is if someone really needs to go afk for a little while and doesn't have time to dock.
Nonsense. That's the worst defense of afk cloaking I have ever heard.
I sincerely hope that someone whose kid has just broken it's leg is not very interested if he lost a billion or 50 in a ******* game, even one as well-desiged and immersing as EVE.
Apart from that, what if he DOESN'T have a cloak? Maybe we should add an "invulnerability" button in case of family emergencies.
Don't mix eve with RL in this way please, that's bad, bad, bad.
|
Angelus Xenotov
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 13:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: LORD IZE
Originally by: Angelus Xenotov
Afk cloaked in a system is the same as docking in a station and going Afk.
No its not the same. Docking in station and going afk is no big deal and has no impact on the game except to annoy corpies from time to time
So...your argument against AFK cloakers and not afk docked people is 'Atleast I can camp their station, but I can't do that with afk cloakers?'
|
LORD IZE
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 13:53:00 -
[23]
No Angelus, my argument is people should not be able to "IMPACT" the game afk, like macro users do and afk cloakers do. People docked in a station are either in "their" system or at npc system and their location identifiable. Thus people know where they are. AFK cloakers that impact people negatively come to hostile system, cloak at ss, then leave for an extended period of time simple to harass people actually playing the game. That is BS and should not be allowed. All that I am seeking is to allow those playing the game the opportunity to "interact" with that specific player who is harassing me but not actively playing eve because they are gone and off doing something else. I also think that a method, such as the one I suggested, can be found that, 1) requires an effort on my part, and 2) Has no real impact on the way cloaks are used today(with this topics' subject being the one exception.). |
Angelus Xenotov
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 14:20:00 -
[24]
Ugh, this is going to be one of those threads.
What is the 'IMPACT(!)' of an AFK cloaker? What can someone, who is AFK and cloaked, do to you? I'll tell you what, nothing, that's right, NOTHING. The only 'IMPACT(!!)' an AFK cloaker has is psychological, there is no actual threat until the cloaker comes out of afk and either decides to attack or buggers off.
That said, who decides if a cloaker has gone 'afk'? Do we get a probe that tells you that there is an afk cloaker in the system? (Then, oh look, a simple keystroke and I'm off the scan!) A probe that says there is a definitive cloaker in system who may or may not be afk?
Oh wait:
Quote:
People docked in a station are either in "their" system or at npc system and their location identifiable
IE. Campable.
Case rested.
|
Cosmos Serendipity
Unfinium Corp
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 15:02:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Neuromandis
Edited by: Neuromandis on 20/05/2007 12:25:38
Originally by: Cosmos Serendipity
Damn......so I guess the guys who have a family and have a sudden emergency like "Kid just broke his leg, gotta run to the hospital no time to warp to a station...hey cloak button!" deserves and really needs to have his ship found and destroyed?
Not sure what the problem is if someone really needs to go afk for a little while and doesn't have time to dock.
Nonsense. That's the worst defense of afk cloaking I have ever heard.
I sincerely hope that someone whose kid has just broken it's leg is not very interested if he lost a billion or 50 in a ******* game, even one as well-desiged and immersing as EVE.
Apart from that, what if he DOESN'T have a cloak? Maybe we should add an "invulnerability" button in case of family emergencies.
Don't mix eve with RL in this way please, that's bad, bad, bad.
We'll that would be one extreme, but not sure that someone should loose their ship even if they have to run off in a hurry and don't have time to log off. (Even if it's something as trivial as your wife walking in wearing nothing to get your attention)
If you don't have a cloak and don't have time to dock, then you just log off. But still should be some sort of safty buffer for such situations.
|
Shaemell Buttleson
Darwin With Attitude
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 15:39:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cosmos Serendipity
Damn......so I guess the guys who have a family and have a sudden emergency like "Kid just broke his leg, gotta run to the hospital no time to warp to a station...hey cloak button!" deserves and really needs to have his ship found and destroyed?
Not sure what the problem is if someone really needs to go afk for a little while and doesn't have time to dock.
Don't be a Tard. If that happened to me and I was sitting a Titan in a middle of an OP I'd log. There are some things in RL more important than a game with spaceships in it!
Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo |
Riddick Valer
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 16:02:00 -
[27]
As for the person that wanted cloaked people removed from local, NO.
Of course, Covops cloakers should be removed. Thats the definition of covert ops.
|
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 17:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Angelus Xenotov
I mean, c'mon guys, use abit of that grey matter your mother gave you.
Afk cloaked in a system is the same as docking in a station and going Afk.
Uhm, no need to insult or troll, don't you think?
Especially since that statement is wrong.
- A player who has gone afk in a station can be located, as opposed to someone who's afk in system.
- Most 0.0 systems don't have a station to begin with.
As for the impact, you can't tell whether some char is afk or not. So in doubt you have to handle the situation as if that char is online and a possible threat.
If that char is at a station, you can locate and monitor him - no more doubt. If he's in space you can't.
The impact of a cloaker who has gone AFK in space is posing a possible threat without effort and without the possibility to verify it.
What is being asked for is an instrument to do just that, tell apart AFK cloakers from active players. Tell apart threat from non threat.
There's enough room to do that without hurting active players. Long scan times for example. An active player would merely have to change position every 30min or even more. I guess that's the least you could expect of a good scout.
_________________________________
- People are people wherever you go - |
PastaMadaFaka
|
Posted - 2007.05.20 18:30:00 -
[29]
lololz
the more i read the more i laugh at it, cloaks are ingame for long time and now u guys decided to start whining about it now lol
whats a cloak good for if the enemy can find u?
cloaks are ok as it is if u got problems with peeps getting in ur system thats ur problem for letting them in
|
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
|
Posted - 2007.05.21 00:15:00 -
[30]
Originally by: PastaMadaFaka
lololz
Don't know if it's just me but.. stopped reading here.
Could you please at least try to be constructive? Yes? Thanks.
_________________________________
- People are people wherever you go - |
|
|
Drizit
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.05.21 10:02:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Originally by: PastaMadaFaka
lololz
Don't know if it's just me but.. stopped reading here.
Could you please at least try to be constructive? Yes? Thanks.
I believe it was pretty constructive since it re-iterated what has been said time and time again about cloaks.
Quote:
whats a cloak good for if the enemy can find u?
And also the point:
Quote:
cloaks are ok as it is if u got problems with peeps getting in ur system thats ur problem for letting them in
In addition, both points I agree to.
--
|
Cosmos Serendipity
Unfinium Corp
|
Posted - 2007.05.21 12:00:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Cosmos Serendipity on 21/05/2007 12:07:19
I guess the easiest way to fix this without compromising the cloak or forcing everyone offline each time they turn their back for a few minutes is to set an idle status bar that shows up next to a persons name in local.
My main point here is that there is sometimes legitimate reasons for someone to be afk without intending to grief someone.
|
Hugh Ruka
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.05.21 13:24:00 -
[33]
1. thing: I have never used a cloak (but I know the stats and mechanics). I have never used probes.
let's flame :-]]
Let's make cloaks imperfect. They are generaly hidden in the background noise of the systems own radiation (stars etc) and when they are moving, they are impossible to trace.
Once they stand still, they produce a pattern in the noise background of the system. The longer they stand still, the more the pattern shows an probes can gradualy start picking them up. Now to make this complicated, simple thrusters movement is not enough to hide your signature. You need to warp.
This means an active cloaker is safe, he usualy travels around the system (or has to to avoid detection). An AFK cloaker will be gradualy visible to probes after some time.
Now if we add precision to probes, the ones with lowest range are most accurate, so they can pick up the signature early, observators take time for the signature to grow.
Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls.... 
|
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.05.21 13:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
You need to warp.
This is directly against how cloaks work in all SciFi literature (and logic). It is easier to emulate the background if you are sitting still, the power emitted from a warp jump is much harder to hide.
Besides, only the Covert Ops cloak on a Covert Ops or Recon ship allows you to warp while cloaked, all other cloaks/ships require you to de-cloak to warp.
It would effectively destroy cloaks if you HAD to warp to stay hidden.
<----------->
Factional Warefare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
|
Posted - 2007.05.21 16:29:00 -
[35]
Quote:
whats a cloak good for if the enemy can find u?
Ask the Romulans and Klingons 
Ok now, seriously. A cloaking device is good for not being seen or detected at a glance.
It's good for raiding. It's good for surprise attacks and traveling unseen.
But it should not be good for staying undetectable even under thorough scanning and probing.
All cloaking devices I can remember had some flaws and were detectable in some way or another. I think that's for a reason, because otherwise the concept is a bit overpowered.
_________________________________
- People are people wherever you go - |
PastaMadaFaka
|
Posted - 2007.05.21 16:47:00 -
[36]
Edited by: PastaMadaFaka on 21/05/2007 16:49:05
Originally by: Drizit
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Originally by: PastaMadaFaka
lololz
Don't know if it's just me but.. stopped reading here.
Could you please at least try to be constructive? Yes? Thanks.
I believe it was pretty constructive since it re-iterated what has been said time and time again about cloaks.
Quote:
whats a cloak good for if the enemy can find u?
And also the point:
Quote:
cloaks are ok as it is if u got problems with peeps getting in ur system thats ur problem for letting them in
In addition, both points I agree to.
u said it all :P
"almost forgot if they change cloaks the way u peeps want u just gona kill 0.0 exploration"
|
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
|
Posted - 2007.05.21 16:59:00 -
[37]
Originally by: PastaMadaFaka
"almost forgot if they change cloaks the way u peeps want u just gona kill 0.0 exploration"
Why?
Would you care to elaborate?
Let's say scanning would take a minimum of 1 hour, just to give you something to work with and to get you started.
_________________________________
- People are people wherever you go - |
PastaMadaFaka
|
Posted - 2007.05.21 17:02:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Originally by: PastaMadaFaka
"almost forgot if they change cloaks the way u peeps want u just gona kill 0.0 exploration"
Why?
Would you care to elaborate?
Let's say scanning would take a minimum of 1 hour, just to give you something to work with and to get you started.
try to do some then some sites are hard to find sometimes it takes more 1h just to get the first sig of it not to mention sometimes u have to do alot of warping arround just to place ur probes right by the time i had the site i would be probed down and killed
|
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.05.21 18:34:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Ask the Romulans and Klingons
And I quote out of the original Star Trek Klingon Ship Recognition Manual:
"Of the 81 K22Bs built, one has been captured by the Federation, one has been destroyed, and the other 79 are believed to be in active service, their where-abouts unknown".
Notice how almost all the cloaked ships that the Romulans or Klingons lost were due to stupidity...
<----------->
Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
PastaMadaFaka
|
Posted - 2007.05.21 20:32:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Ask the Romulans and Klingons
And I quote out of the original Star Trek Klingon Ship Recognition Manual:
"Of the 81 K22Bs built, one has been captured by the Federation, one has been destroyed, and the other 79 are believed to be in active service, their where-abouts unknown".
Notice how almost all the cloaked ships that the Romulans or Klingons lost were due to stupidity...
nice one :P
|
|
|
Ramashek
|
Posted - 2007.05.22 13:53:00 -
[41]
Just a random post onto this, but what about removing cloaked people from local entirely? (although they will appear there to non locals, just not able to see the uncloaked populus) with like a 10 minutes of not being allowed back in when uncloaking... they still have their directional scanner to find people...
the cloaked person will not lose out, as they can't be found all the same, and the residents will be happy as they can't be spied on so efficiently...
and then maybe a passive pulse scanner from a gate in a system you have sovereinity of, kind of like radar, it will pulse out for 500km or whatever every 10 seconds, giving like a blip, then the cloaked player isnt revealed, but will atleast have to move about to maintain any ability to not be found...
*prepares for the ideas to be shot down all the same*
the problem with probes would be, how do u determine someone is afk? cus they havent moved in 30mins? or if they havent changed direction? what if they're orbitting something while cloaked? it's just a huge problem stopping them going afk, but not messin it up for cloakers who aren't afk :| maybe it will be cleared up with rev 2.0? they might give pos scanning stations that negate a cloaked ships advantage?
|
PastaMadaFaka
|
Posted - 2007.05.22 15:58:00 -
[42]
do u know what a cov ops ship is? its a flying cloak very easy to shoot down if u add those said probes nobody will use them anymore basicly cloaks and cov ops ships die cuz nobody will want to risk them since they cant tank anything... btw try to read the other posts :P
|
LORD IZE
|
Posted - 2007.05.25 04:34:00 -
[43]
Lets stick to topic, ALL i have asked is that something being added to the game to detect AFK cloakers. NOT active cloakers. The deference would be defined as time away from your comp. One possible method is the one I suggested that would require at least an HOUR to locate a cloaker in your systems and the cloaker has to be relatively stationary(with the exception of moving in while cloaked but not warping).
What is your real objection to allowing detection of someone that has logged on and left his char in space cloaked simply to harrass active players? |
MotherMoon
|
Posted - 2007.05.25 04:37:00 -
[44]
sry but this being made into the ulimate sci-fi game ever.
and even somelike me who knows just a bit of sci-fi knownledge knows that if it's cloaked, and not moving, you can't find it.
no w if it was moving it would be giving something off.
it's like being in a sub underwater with everything off.
impossable to find unless sonar picks up noise form a crew member.
|
Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.05.25 12:03:00 -
[45]
Originally by: MotherMoon
impossable to find unless sonar picks up noise form a crew member.
You said it all.
Impossible -> *unless*
Add this *unless* to cloaking (there isn't an "unless" now) and you have your analogy.
As for the exploration part above:
If it took 1 hour of you STANDING STILL to be probed, you would be safe. Even if it took you 4 hours to find that damned radar signature, it is not so much of a trouble to warp every hour or so is it? In fact you would NEED to to replace your probes. You're safe...
|
Trovax
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.05.25 12:35:00 -
[46]
OMG!!! NOT ANOTHER NERF CLOAKS POST!!!
A cloak is for hiding, covert ops, espionage, and a few other things too.
This means staying invisible for long periods of time. As ive mentioned in other posts, sometimes i spend hours just sitting within visible range of a gate not talking to anyone, takking notes.
Surveillance does not require....
Interaction with other players
Talking in local, or any other channel
Running risks (the very reason you get a cloak is to reduce the risk while in enemy territory, by not being spotted.
Just because you cant find them dosent mean the are afk
Just becasue they declined your chat dosent mean they are afk
Just because you cant see them dosent mean they are afk
Just because you cant shoot them dosnet mean they are afk
Just because they are not talking in local dosent mean they are afk, or even in a cloaked vessel. In fact it might not even have a cloak on it. They might just be in a buzzard with loads of jammers fitted...and no cloak.
The only reason peeps what cloaks nerfed is so they can sit waiting for a ship to run out of cloak, knowing it cant warp until it uncloaks, with the exception of the Buzzard and counterparts from other races. So they can pop it and maybe get the cloak device as loot, because we all know how expensive they are and what they are worth.
A cloaker gains no advantage if he goes AFK cloaked. And the pathetic excuses most of you nerfers are commin up with are total B*****KS!!!
A cloaker cant.....
Fire when cloaked
Target when cloaked
Scan your cargo when cloaked
Scan your ship when cloaked
So you are actually safer while they are cloaked than when they are not. I doubt any solo Bomber pilot would attack anyone unless he had backup, and if he does have backup, chances are he isnt afk, and that hes actually acting a spotter for his corp.
If your in a low sec where a COVOPS pilot can freely shoot you, then you should be watchin your back anyways.
There is no difference in a cloaker being afk and a docked hauler being afk.
Most peeps that play also have a real life too, and sometime they may be required to go afk, to, for example, put the kids to bed, the wife/gf/bf/husband want a hug, dinner time, unexpected guest that stayed longer than s/he thought and in talking to the guest forgot all about eve being online, or maybe even the dog is on fire and had to be rushed to the vet's. IMHO rl takes precendence.
The "IDK if he is afk or not" is the worst of them all. It holds no relevance in the argument. How do you know that half of Jita arnt afk?? Im sure at least 25% of them are. And none of them use cloaks (i dont think).
To sum it up, those of you trying to nerf cloaks just want to be able to get a good kill thats gonna drop potentially good loot, with the minimus of effort and resistance because the pilot is unable to defend him/her self, and maximum profit.
I think you nerfers selfish, lazy and greedy. Get a grip.
Out of all the posts about this subject, i have yet to see a single LEGIT argument about the cloak........ maybe one day someone will come up with somthing. but i doubt it.
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" |
Major Stallion
The Dark Horses
Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.25 12:47:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Cosmos Serendipity
Damn......so I guess the guys who have a family and have a sudden emergency like "Kid just broke his leg, gotta run to the hospital no time to warp to a station...hey cloak button!" deserves and really needs to have his ship found and destroyed?
Not sure what the problem is if someone really needs to go afk for a little while and doesn't have time to dock.
ctrl+q...if you feel the need to say "OMG I CANT LOG OUT OF EVE" then theres a serious problem
|
Cosmos Serendipity
Unfinium Corp
|
Posted - 2007.05.26 02:24:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Cosmos Serendipity
Damn......so I guess the guys who have a family and have a sudden emergency like "Kid just broke his leg, gotta run to the hospital no time to warp to a station...hey cloak button!" deserves and really needs to have his ship found and destroyed?
Not sure what the problem is if someone really needs to go afk for a little while and doesn't have time to dock.
ctrl+q...if you feel the need to say "OMG I CANT LOG OUT OF EVE" then theres a serious problem
Almost forgot about this thread.....
When your afk, your not actually playing the game....playing the game while afk would require the use of a macro, which is against the rules. Just floating lifelessly in space is not (Attack someone who's afk at a gate in empire then petition CCP when you loose your ship just to test it out.)
IMO it doesn't matter if your in space or in station when afk, if one is against the rules the other should be too, but CCP realizes that at least a large majority of people playing eve has a rl and not all are just a bunch of zombies sitting in front of a monitor all day.
|
Trustus
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
|
Posted - 2007.05.26 12:06:00 -
[49]
Afk cloakers must be removed some how, or at least give the players some kind of penalty of being cloaked longer period of time.
so that we can get a change to find them and kill them.
/T
|
Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
The Suicide Kings
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2007.05.26 12:24:00 -
[50]
With all the talk of HEAT, why not risk damage to your cloak for extended periods of cloaking.
People want cloak fuel, but it'll just end up making all the covert-ops fliers fit cargo expanders so they can cloak for 5-6 hours in system bugging the hell out of players.
10 minutes cloaked and then there is a risk of damage unless the cloak (ANY CLOAK) is deactivated for a certain time period modified by your skill level of cloaking. Maybe a cooling down period is required and you can't activate the cloak.
just an idea
THUKKER -Be Paranoid
 |
|
|
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.05.26 17:46:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Futher Bezluden
With all the talk of HEAT, why not risk damage to your cloak for extended periods of cloaking.
People want cloak fuel, but it'll just end up making all the covert-ops fliers fit cargo expanders so they can cloak for 5-6 hours in system bugging the hell out of players.
10 minutes cloaked and then there is a risk of damage unless the cloak (ANY CLOAK) is deactivated for a certain time period modified by your skill level of cloaking. Maybe a cooling down period is required and you can't activate the cloak.
just an idea
And you just nerfed exploration.
Exploration in LowSec or 0.0 takes sometimes HOURS to scan sites down, during which time you are sitting still, can't warp until the scan completes, etc.
Remove cloaks from the equation every 10 minutes and you just made explorers sitting ducks.
The problem IS NOT CLOAKS. They should not be nerfed. The problem is AFK players, and if they are AFK they cannot hurt you.
Most of the "nerf cloak" threads are people whining that they might be attacked and can't solo rat/mine in 0.0 space. I swear most 0.0 alliances/Corps are more carebear than us dedicated Empir e Dwellers.
<----------->
Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
PastaMadaFaka
|
Posted - 2007.05.26 18:00:00 -
[52]
do u guys know what weapons a buzzard can fit? it would be 2 light launchers now what dmg does that do thats like getting hit by a rat belt in 0.0 not to mention that like i said above that thing is a flying cloak a merlin tanks better than a buzzard :P
no fuel cuz theyr cargo is barely enough for our probes
no dmg cuz cloaks are a bit expensive and when im probing sometimes it takes a couple hours to get something in the scanner
if u dont like cov ops pilots start protecting ur own space better
if a bs shows up in ur space and cloaks and pops a barge from time to time thats also ur problem for mining alone in 0.0
guys cloaks are fine they got enough penalties as it is
|
LORD IZE
|
Posted - 2007.05.29 04:49:00 -
[53]
Well it looks like cloaks are gettng nerfed next patch and it will probably be a nerf instead of something reasonable that just allows players to detect the afk cloaker. too bad more people didnt' support working to end the afk cloaker, now all will suffer. |
Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.05.29 09:54:00 -
[54]
Originally by: LORD IZE
Well it looks like cloaks are gettng nerfed next patch and it will probably be a nerf instead of something reasonable that just allows players to detect the afk cloaker. too bad more people didnt' support working to end the afk cloaker, now all will suffer.
I don't know where you're coming from. I am a coverts pilot and sure as hell this isn't gonna nerf me at all.
If they implemented something that DECLOAKS me so I cannot bust gatecamps and gather intel, then we would be talking about the permanent parking of the buzzard. Now? I'll just be probing people more, cause I know a cloak itself isn't gonna save them, and they'll actually need some skill to escape.
|
Draec Sjet
Dark Knights of Deneb
|
Posted - 2007.05.29 10:53:00 -
[55]
afk cloaking only happens with ships that are not designed to have a cloak. the usual culprits are battleships.
but please, think about this. they can't move anywhere fast cloaked, they can't warp, they can't fire or anything, and the moment the y decloak, they're going to be visible on scanner.
taking viewable standings away from local does nothing
taking cloakers entirely out of local is the worst idea i have ever heard
it's a tactic people can use when using cloaks, just deal with it. if yo have an afk cloaker in your mining system, instead of wasting time on here trolling about it; think about how you could disuade them; protect your miners with ships of your own!
this game is brilliant in that there are so many different things you can do, so stop whinging and start playing this beautifully diverse game that is eve!
|
Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari
Hammers Academy
|
Posted - 2007.05.29 11:41:00 -
[56]
so tell me something here
if i was to be watching a station without interacting with my ship to monitor people passing through, lets say in low sec (which face it, is as dangerous as 0.0) and i'm after a guy but im looking to find out what he flies, what do i do? i dont want him seeing me spying on him.
i could be sat there for 40 mins watching. i dont want to be kicked off at a vital moment as they undock do i now?
how can you determine if someone is afk in a cloak?
|
Azirapheal
Amarr
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.05.29 16:31:00 -
[57]
1. im active on the old espionage front - and am very happy sitting for hours watching and spotting.
what appears to be the issue is johnny risk free 00
the raven, ratting out in 00.
that warps to SS and cloaks untill local is clear again.
this isnt RISK v Reward - and even a well organised gang will struggle to find him in time in a system with plenty of belts, and of course once hes out of warp in his SS he hits cloak and becomes immune to probing.
heres an idea for you.
cloaking modules may not be fitted on a battlecruiser/battleship/capital
reason : cloaking technology is imprecise and intensive, leading to severe field instability when attempting to cloak an overly large ship.
OR - scientists have been unable to create a cloaking device which can create a stable field large enough to cover a battleship
Azi
Hango touched me in the night! I also stole all of your socks. |
Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.29 16:38:00 -
[58]
I can't find the link but one of the devs stated in the forums recently that in Kali there will be scan probes that can find cloaked ships. I imagine it will take a great deal of time. It's exactly what we wanted. If you are playing the game, you're safe. Who sits still for 4 hours in hostile space anyway? If you're watching a gate, it's pretty easy to orbit the gate at 100km or warp around the gate without losing any LOS or info. People who play the game won't even be bothered by this. People who log an alt into a hostile system then go to work or to play EQ or something just to make the locals skittish will have to find a new hobby.
People who play don't get hurt. People who don't play... keep not playing?
------
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Trovax
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.05.29 16:49:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Trovax on 29/05/2007 16:49:42
Edited by: Trovax on 29/05/2007 16:48:29
Originally by: Azirapheal
1. im active on the old espionage front - and am very happy sitting for hours watching and spotting.
what appears to be the issue is johnny risk free 00
the raven, ratting out in 00.
that warps to SS and cloaks untill local is clear again.
this isnt RISK v Reward - and even a well organised gang will struggle to find him in time in a system with plenty of belts, and of course once hes out of warp in his SS he hits cloak and becomes immune to probing.
heres an idea for you.
cloaking modules may not be fitted on a battlecruiser/battleship/capital
reason : cloaking technology is imprecise and intensive, leading to severe field instability when attempting to cloak an overly large ship.
OR - scientists have been unable to create a cloaking device which can create a stable field large enough to cover a battleship
Azi
So the player that has been playing for say 3 years and dosent want to get involved in PVP and just wants to play the content of the game, IE ratting and missions, is to be penalized because PVP'rs cant force him into PVP??
And before anyone says 'stick to Empire' what if he dosent want to. What if he wants to get a carrier next, or a titan? And the best way for HIM/HER in relation to their skills is to go kill 0.0 rats?
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" |
Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
The Suicide Kings
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2007.05.29 21:34:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 29/05/2007 21:47:16
Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 29/05/2007 21:44:45
Why not just require a certain amount of cap per x amount of time for cloaking devices? The greater your sensor strength, target range, shield levels, armor amounts, your MASS, propulsion strength, warp core strength, cap recharge rate, shield recharge rate the greater energy consumed per cycle. Many things can contribute.
Cloaking Devices on Capitals... if you fit one, it should require an absolutely sick amount of cap per cycle or a Capital Cloaking Device that still uses a great deal of energy and makes you easier to scan compared to the largest non-covert ops cloak users. Would almost be better for you to log or find a friendly pos.
A covert ops frig or force recon using a covert ops cloaking device would receive a role bonus that reduces the capacitor needed for the covert ops cloaking device to negligle levels. However, any other ship using protocloaks, which by there very nature are the most basic cloak, the cap per cycle would be higher than the improved cloaking device II. Improved cloaking devices would use half as much cap per cycle as the Prototype.
Scanning for non-covert ops and force recon ships would still be difficult and could be dependent on the aforemented things that contribute to how much cap per cycle a proto or improved cloak requires per cycle. Depending on which cloaking device the player has fit can also affect the time needed to probe them out. Prototype cloaking device users would be more vulnerable to being probed out than Improved Cloaking Device II users.
The larger the ship, the more cap required per cycle to stay cloaked and the greater chance of being probed out by probes that can only be used by covert ops and force recon ships and in recon probe launchers.
For Covert Ops and Force Recon Ships, a specific module such as Emission Suppressors for the midslots and Displacement Supressor for the lowslots should be required to prevent scanning. This weakens them combatwise, but makes them impervious to being scanned out as their emissions and displacement are at levels below what probes are able to detect. Maybe as a drawback, the Emission Suppressor weakens the lock range, scan res, shield resistances, sensor strength and the Displacement Suppressor reduces speed, ab and mwd effectiveness, weakens armor resistances.
If the covert pilot doesn't want to fit them so they can be of more use in combat, fine, but they risk being probed. The explorers who want to avoid combat fit them up and can do their exploration.
Would require a lot of calculations and extensive testing, but could be a very good system. Also, people could go to their POS and cloak outside the bubble and laugh as coverts bounce off the shield and recloak asap.
THUKKER -Be Paranoid
|
|
|
Trustus
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 11:17:00 -
[61]
I just wanna point out that cloak are intended for a few ships and therefore we should not be able to see cloak bs's or other ships like this.
Having people flying like cowards looking for an easy hauler to kill, or just sit afk in a hostile sysetm is not what this game is about.
/T
|
Trovax
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 11:25:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Trovax on 30/05/2007 11:24:15
Who is the bigger coward?
The lone manti preying on haulers in 0.0, activly doing what a covops ship was designed for?
Or the uncloaked/cloaked gate camp also preying on haulers in 0.0? Not actually moving about, just sitting on the bubbled up gate waiting for kill mails, just for kicks. Sorry, but thats not what the game is about either.
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" |
Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 11:56:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Neuromandis on 30/05/2007 11:59:56
"What threat is an afk cloaker?"
An "afk" cloaker is gathering intel undisturbed behind enemy lines.
The "gathering intel" part is swell, that's what cloaks and covops are for.
The "undisturbed" part is not - gathering intel for use against someone is a hostile act and as such should be counterable. No matter if the whole eve community, devs icluded, comes and shouts otherwise till they're blue in the face, gathering intel against someone is still a hostile act. (Added for emphasis only: as an example, wartime spies are executed, not even imprisoned. It's THAT hostile to spy on womeone)
Someone that believes that a 23/7 cloaker (afk or not) is no threat is simply naive, and if balance and tactics should be served, and that's the part that is under question, all hostile acts should be in some way counterable. That a covops job is to gather intel does not mean that no-one should be able to stop it. It is like saying that because the Hulk's job is to mine it should be immune to ganking while mining. Or that because the Mega's job is to gank people, it should be invulnerable when it actvates its guns. In short, it's a load of crap.
Now, as far as force recons go - these fellas do what covops do, only a little slower, and with a little punch and a lot of EW to add a few killmails on top. The problem with these fellas is that being unprobeable and unscannable even while mobile, they can 100% dictate their fights. They don't even have to run away if thing's don't go as planned (as an interceptor, the other ship that dictates fights, has to do). They are the one ship that has the most might (firepower, EW capabilities, high speed, high warp speed) in a combination with the ability to 100% dictate their fights. Other ships can dictate fights as well (interceptors and covops) but don't pack its punch. Other ships pack a lot more firepower and/or defense (combat recons, battleships), but they cannot 100% dictate fights and scout.
This makes them imbalanced even if they cannot beat every other ship 1 vs 1 - basically they are an I-win button any way you look at it. Gathering a gang against them only removes you from the target list - it does not even increase the risk factor for the recon.
That's your problems with cloaking in a nutshell, and why it should be possible to probe down anyone and everyone, with varying degrees of difficulty taking into consideration their role.
|
Trustus
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 12:23:00 -
[64]
Iam not saying they should remove cloakers, what i say they should stop is for other ships not intended to cloak to actually cloak.
If you wanna cloak get your self a cov ops/reacon and do what ever you like.
Having cloacking bs/bc or other ships is not how this have is supposed to be played.
/T
|
Galack Fyar
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 15:53:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Neuromandis
Edited by: Neuromandis on 30/05/2007 11:59:56
"What threat is an afk cloaker?"
An "afk" cloaker is gathering intel undisturbed behind enemy lines.
Tell me, how exactly does somebody gather intel while afk? Does their ship computer shout things at them from the other side of their house?
The only way somebody in system cloaked can be a threat is if they are AT the computer.
|
Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 21:16:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Galack Fyar
Tell me, how exactly does somebody gather intel while afk? Does their ship computer shout things at them from the other side of their house?
The only way somebody in system cloaked can be a threat is if they are AT the computer.
Originally by: Galack Fyar
Originally by: Neuromandis
Edited by: Neuromandis on 30/05/2007 11:59:56
"What threat is an afk cloaker?"
An "afk" cloaker is gathering intel undisturbed behind enemy lines.
Tell me, how exactly does somebody gather intel while afk? Does their ship computer shout things at them from the other side of their house?
The only way somebody in system cloaked can be a threat is if they are AT the computer.
Really, does that need an answer? That was the quotes for... That I am not speaking about a guy that has gone for coffee.
Also, afk is not a permanent state of being. You can go to your computer, leave it and return. Your screen does still display stuff. Your keyboard is not even needed if you just need people's names and numbers from local, or when a specific guy undocks and where he went.
In any case, when I say "afk" cloakers, and not afk cloakers without the quotes, I mean exactly what I outlined in my post: people that just sit there motionless gathering intel for long amounts of time. When they are really afk or not is irrelevant. Because their job usually does not require them do do anything but watch. It's not like you can see if the guy actually moves to determine if he's afk, and it's not the problem I outlined anyway.
|
LORD IZE
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 02:00:00 -
[67]
AFK cloaking is akin to macro mining. Its a way to play eve while not at your computer. It really doesnt' matter IF you can't understand how afk cloaking can be used to advantage and i'm not gonna explain that to you here so you and anyone else not in the know can go try it. What I hope to convey is that playing eve, through means other than direct input into the game is something less than desireable and thus should be eliminated. I hope ccp, when it finally takes action, just gives us the tools to seek out the afk cloaker and kill him. For those cloakers not afk but actively playing I hope their cloaks continue to offer them the protection they offer today. |
Trovax
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 08:58:00 -
[68]
OK. Firstly Cloaking afk is NOTHING like macro mining. Macro mining involves setting up a piece of out of game code to make your miners/haulers do all the work while your not there which results in a profit. It is an OUT OF GAME piece of code and is not availible IN GAME for obvious reason and is therethere fore deemed to be CHEATING. And not allowed.
Cloaking IS! Somthing that is availible to all in game. CCP made it that way. And if CCP made it availible then it cant be deemed as cheating. Cheating would be finding a way of firing while cloaked, know as a bug or 'exploit'.
AFK cloaking gains no advantage at all. Sure you might get the odd o/ in local but what intel does that provide? That someone flew thru the system? That same intel can be gathered in a shuttle sitting in an SS. Most people setup and use private channels, some others dont type at all and make it a requirement that everyone must use TeamSpeak/Ventrillo. And unlike Macro Miners, they do not make any isk at the end of each session. They cant fight solo either and we all know why. For those that dont, its basically because they wont last 2 seconds solo.
Now im all for a system and/or module for Hunting out cloaked ships. Someone even came up with a great idea here. But not for one to just nerf the cloak so that those that want to hunt cloaked ships dont have to sacrifice weaponry. How is that fair? Someone whos spent the time training for covert ops (and it does take a while) should happily sit back and watch all his hard work just explode after 2 shots from a sniperthron? Me thinks not. If you want to be able to hunt cloaked ships you should have a specific hunter Killer skill/module/or even ship. And if you dont want to fit the module, or train for the ship, find a friend that does and work as a team to hunt out cloaked vessels, instead of all trying to train everything. Choose a role and stick to it. I started training CovertOps from day one. Because thats what i knew i wanted to play before the game had even finnished installing. You i can tell you now, i've done some nice work for alliances in the past, collecting intellignce. And i can tell you that i made alot more isk than those silly gate campers. In fact i even flew thru several and laughed once i was thru. I'm not the best, but it is a challenge. One i enjoy. And i have lost some too. For example i've been 3000m from a Domi while trying to get to a gate, only i wasnt expecting him to release his dronage and i got WTFPWN'd. Unlucky.
(if you read this all the way thru put a at the end of your reply)
Now lets put this NERF cloaks thing into real life scenario.
I did 7 years in the Armed Forces, came out just under a year ago. We did on occaision do some surveillance operations. Now if this nerf scenario was to be implemented in real life, what your all saying is that after 2 or 3 hours of being in the harbour area, a big fat arrow should appear above my head saying 'HERE HE IS'. So that you can all just sit and wait until the arrow appears (I.E. pops up on scanner) and not actually have to use your eyes and equipment to hunt the spy down. Because thats basically what your all askin.
Anyways, back to scanning this POS i found....
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" |
Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 20:43:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Trovax
Now im all for a system and/or module for Hunting out cloaked ships. Someone even came up with a great idea here. But not for one to just nerf the cloak so that those that want to hunt cloaked ships dont have to sacrifice weaponry. How is that fair? Someone whos spent the time training for covert ops (and it does take a while) should happily sit back and watch all his hard work just explode after 2 shots from a sniperthron? Me thinks not. If you want to be able to hunt cloaked ships you should have a specific hunter Killer skill/module/or even ship. And if you dont want to fit the module, or train for the ship, find a friend that does and work as a team to hunt out cloaked vessels, instead of all trying to train everything. Choose a role and stick to it.
Basically, what is on the verge of happening (cloaks being probeable, check the test server) seems to exactly describe what you suggest - i.e. people with specialized ships (covops and generally probeing ships) and equipment (probe launchers) and skills (4 expensive skills for probing plus the relevant ship skills), and sacrificing weapons for it, will be able to hunt you down.
:o
|
PastaMadaFaka
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 00:57:00 -
[70]
u guys make me laugh alot everyday i see at least 2 new topics about cloaks nobody gives a dam to read the forum they just drop in what they have in mind and that is pure whining on most of the topics yes u "whiners"
as for cloaks dam i dont know how many times i have said this and others also but here goes again do u guys know how many weapons a cov ops got onboard if hes on spy duty?
2 light launchers is that enough to kill anything in 0.0? i guess not unless u are a complete tard and are flying an ibis and i think u can still outrun it lol
now the best part what about a cov ops that its being used for exploration?
1 light launcher cuz the other 2 slots will be full with a cloak and a probe launcher now what dmg does that make loool
and last but not least what about theyr armor/shields basicly any combat ship can pop it easy
if u guys want any nerf or mods to kill cloak users do that on peeps that use the other cloaks not cov ops stuff or most will drop exploration
|
|
|
Camilo Cienfuegos
Caldari
EP0CH
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 01:58:00 -
[71]
Quote:
Nor can they hurt you. If you are "afraid" of a cloaked ship in your 0.0 space or something like that do what you tell all of us Carebears in Empire to do: Don't fly afk and bring a friend for cover. I have zero sympathy for whining about not being able to do something because "we don't know where they are" or any such BS.
The problem doesn't lie in not knowing where they are - the paranoia brought about by having cloaked hostiles in system is something that is priceless in my opinion, and second only to the palputations brought about whilst tanking right on the brink in combat. The problem is people coming into system, activating the cloak and leaving the computer idle.
If the cloaker actually stayed at the keyboard and picked off targets now and again I wouldn't mind. Here though, we're discussing completely AFK cloaking. The simple solution is the same one as rats whilst mining: require a recalibration of the cloak after a pseudo-random interval, modified by your skills. Like mining, you might be able to go afk and idle for over an hour with nothing happenening, or your cloak could require recalibration twice in as many minutes. Like the people you hunt, you never know when you might become exposed...
|
Camilo Cienfuegos
Caldari
EP0CH
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 01:59:00 -
[72]
Quote:
as for cloaks dam i dont know how many times i have said this and others also but here goes again do u guys know how many weapons a cov ops got onboard if hes on spy duty?
If a recon pilot times it right, he can make mincemeat of an NPCer as he engages a triple battleship spawn - and even a covert ops frigate could tear a barge apart.
|
Trovax
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:17:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
Quote:
as for cloaks dam i dont know how many times i have said this and others also but here goes again do u guys know how many weapons a cov ops got onboard if hes on spy duty?
If a recon pilot times it right, he can make mincemeat of an NPCer as he engages a triple battleship spawn - and even a covert ops frigate could tear a barge apart.
The way youve 'said' the above makes it sound like its a 2 seconds job. If it is please explain how, because i fly a manti with 3 cruise launchers, a strike range of 212km, and avg dmg per cruise missile approx 600/missile....and it takes me a good 3 or 4 minutes per BS. In fact, on a 3 BS (drone) spawn, i kill one and move on to the second. Half way thru the second the first has re-spawned.
If i had seven cruise launchers like the drake (hmm now theres a nice thought), then yeah. Bombers cant do that much dmg to a BS solo, and have been designed to work in teams or 'squadrons'. 5 x manti for example = 15 launchers. Enough to take down any BS nice ans fast. But solo........i dont think so.
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" |
Camilo Cienfuegos
Caldari
EP0CH
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:11:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Trovax
The way youve 'said' the above makes it sound like its a 2 seconds job. If it is please explain how, because i fly a manti with 3 cruise launchers, a strike range of 212km, and avg dmg per cruise missile approx 600/missile....and it takes me a good 3 or 4 minutes per BS. In fact, on a 3 BS (drone) spawn, i kill one and move on to the second. Half way thru the second the first has re-spawned.
I'm not talking about Stealth Bombers.
I'm not talking about killing NPCs.
I'm talking about Recon Cruisers.
I'm talking about PVP.
I'm talking about execution of those who do item 2 by those in item 3.
|
PastaMadaFaka
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 19:22:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
Originally by: Trovax
The way youve 'said' the above makes it sound like its a 2 seconds job. If it is please explain how, because i fly a manti with 3 cruise launchers, a strike range of 212km, and avg dmg per cruise missile approx 600/missile....and it takes me a good 3 or 4 minutes per BS. In fact, on a 3 BS (drone) spawn, i kill one and move on to the second. Half way thru the second the first has re-spawned.
I'm not talking about Stealth Bombers.
I'm not talking about killing NPCs.
I'm talking about Recon Cruisers.
I'm talking about PVP.
I'm talking about execution of those who do item 2 by those in item 3.
dont go solo mining in a barge then :P
also if u rat for a living u better off with a wing man and if u cant get a wing to go with u why dont ur ally protect ur own space better?
also recon ships dont have much tank
|
Sir Zippy
Black Lotus Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 21:08:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Azirapheal
heres an idea for you.
cloaking modules may not be fitted on a battlecruiser/battleship/capital
Agreed.
|
Camilo Cienfuegos
Caldari
EP0CH
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 23:30:00 -
[77]
Originally by: PastaMadaFaka
dont go solo mining in a barge then :P
also if u rat for a living u better off with a wing man and if u cant get a wing to go with u why dont ur ally protect ur own space better?
also recon ships dont have much tank
Either my communication skills are appalling today, everyone else has suddenly become much more dense than normal, or this is some kind of sick joke...
|
Sun Crusher
|
Posted - 2007.06.03 20:51:00 -
[78]
i don't see any point in changing how cloak works right now
|
LORD IZE
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 21:01:00 -
[79]
Edited by: LORD IZE on 10/06/2007 21:00:43
The point of this thread isn't to change cloaks. Its exactly the OPPISITE. Not to change cloaks but also come up with a method of finding afk cloakers. |
Breathing
Mork Incorporated
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 21:29:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Breathing on 10/06/2007 21:33:18
I love cloaks. I use them frequently. AFK? Go for it. Gate recon for 5 or 6 hours, while untouchable? Fine. Do it. Its a niche and its a good part of the game.
My frustration, and what I want to see changed, is that currently a cloaker can sit in a system using a cloak for an unlimited amount of time, WEEKS (Ive seen it happen) from DT to DT, permentantly untouchable. Im not complaining about hours. Im complaining about days.
It just doesnt quite sit right that someone can leave a character running a cloaking module in a system for an infinite amount of time, with no need to dock, no need to refuel, no need for any support... for days on end.
Im not a carebear complaining about threats in local. Cloaked ships should not be able to be found, I agree. And I use cloaks for exactly the same reasons the other pro-cloakers in this thread do. But I just think there should be some limit put in to place somehow, to stop a cloaked ship being able to cloak from DT to DT for days on end with no need to dock, re-fuel, or otherwise require support.
|
|
|
aaron 619
Gallente
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 22:56:00 -
[81]
Wow, that was a wast of time, Cloaks will not be changed, If you don't like it, Just drop off your stuff in jita for me and quit, Thanks
|
Lord Xavius
|
Posted - 2007.06.11 05:32:00 -
[82]
Cloaks are fine, they have been for years (except that little mistake they made way back with them but luckily fixed it within days).
Now, if you could find a cloaked ship it would totally kill the whole idea of cloaking and covert ops which would be incredibely stupid...
Now for non-covert cloaks, the penalties are quite harsh and is enough to balance it out.
|
BigWhale
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.06.11 07:19:00 -
[83]
Originally by: PastaMadaFaka
ur speed if a cloaked bs uncloaks in ur mining belt u got 15 seconds to warp out
You obviously never tried to warp out in a hulk. :)
--
R, U, Y are letters...
|
LORD IZE
|
Posted - 2007.06.11 13:06:00 -
[84]
People having an impact on the game while they leave their computer idle and are off doing something else will never be fine. AFK cloakers need to go. Its cheating, period. |
Lord Xavius
|
Posted - 2007.06.11 23:00:00 -
[85]
Originally by: LORD IZE
People having an impact on the game while they leave their computer idle and are off doing something else will never be fine. AFK cloakers need to go. Its cheating, period.
In what way is it cheating, that's just ridiculous.
It's called cloaking, not cheating.
And maybe they aren't AFK maybe they are hunting you, that's the beauty of the device.
Also being AFK and cloaked is a really efficient way to run psychologic warfare, now this is the thing that bothers the miners and 0.0 ratters but ya someone said you had 15sec to warp out, not quite but almost and should be enough if you aren't AFK yourself.
|
LORD IZE
|
Posted - 2007.06.16 15:37:00 -
[86]
its cheating and needs to be fixed. |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |