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heavyg
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Posted - 2004.01.07 12:45:00 -
[61]
Signed
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TIvian
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Posted - 2004.01.07 12:56:00 -
[62]
AGAIN I say leave the missles alone. They are the Main Stay Weapon of the Caldari. and no matter what you do to the other class of missles they won't compare.
In order for me to keep up with those that use gunz I have to hit hard. and the onley way to do it is through cruise missles or torps......AND THOSE DON'T ALWAYS HIT!!!
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) Teh Uber Asheron's Call Bunny Booty WTFPWNZ you!! |
Seleene
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Posted - 2004.01.07 13:19:00 -
[63]
Signed. Leave my missiles alone!!! 
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Tano
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Posted - 2004.01.07 13:19:00 -
[64]
/signed
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MSDborris
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Posted - 2004.01.07 13:27:00 -
[65]
/signed
*****
" MSDborris, " Baka!, Hentia! "
***** |
TomB
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Posted - 2004.01.07 14:01:00 -
[66]
Missile volume will not go on Tranquility like they are currently on Chaos, I'll start a threat on modules & ships forum when tuning starts.
"Where is my hat?" |
Dell
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Posted - 2004.01.07 14:23:00 -
[67]
Victory! nice1, does that mean you will be changing chaos back soon 
RN Killboard
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.01.07 14:30:00 -
[68]
 Quote:
Missile volume will not go on Tranquility like they are currently on Chaos, I'll start a threat on modules & ships forum when tuning starts.
Quote:
TomB > But we are removing the feature for frigates to be able to shoot cruise missiles for sure
Hope the 'why' is good on that. We're not NPCs capable of sending streams of heavies.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
McWatt
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Posted - 2004.01.07 17:13:00 -
[69]
Edited by: McWatt on 07/01/2004 17:14:02
Quote:
TomB > But we are removing the feature for frigates to be able to shoot cruise missiles for sure
the real problem (as has been said before) is the use of cruise missiles against frigates, not by them.
(and i still believe that the whole agility thing needs some looking into..)
this "fix" will make frigates less worthy for combat again, and i m kind of fed up with this "to and fro".
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SithEwok
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Posted - 2004.01.07 17:14:00 -
[70]
STOP HIRING MARK MCGUIRE TO SWING THAT NERF BAT!!
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Brukhai Khan
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Posted - 2004.01.07 17:34:00 -
[71]
TomB, for clarification could you please tell us why using cruises on frigates is not ok? And what the intended direction of the changes will be?
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fluffle
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Posted - 2004.01.07 17:42:00 -
[72]
signed, most definitely.
as someone who flies kestrels a *lot*, i think this will render them fairly useless. i can't see any real reason why you shouldn't be able to fit cruise missiles (in m-12 launchers) to a kestrel, this seems like an utterly pointless nerf to me.
--
Go Here if my sig looks grey, and next time use a good browser.
This is the way things have to be, the wise men wisely said.
So we believed... but some did not,
and though we never knew, the wise men wisely had them shot. |
TomB
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Posted - 2004.01.07 22:48:00 -
[73]
Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4.
Missiles will get tweaking, more ideas have come on how tweaking them will be possible.
Thread will start in ships & modules when it starts.
"Where is my hat?" |
Red Six
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Posted - 2004.01.07 22:54:00 -
[74]
Signed.
Don't mess with the missles. Quit screwing the game up.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.01.07 23:00:00 -
[75]
"Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4."
... Doesn't it mean then the real problem is with cruise missiles being far too effective weapon against the frigates?
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Brukhai Khan
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:55:00 -
[76]
Quote:
Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4.
I agree, that¦s not a thing that should be possible. But personally I would favor an approach that would prohibit cruise missiles from hitting Frigates (at all), while leaving the Frigates ability to deal out (comparatively) large amounts of damage to bigger ships.
A possible way to solve this via missile volumes is to lower the sizes of heavy and light missiles accordingly, allowing "bombers" to retain their DoT output - but that doesn¦t really address the issue of frigate vs frigate combat.
lowering the scan resolution of the dedicated missile boats would probably help tho.
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Ardus Brintar
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Posted - 2004.01.08 03:00:00 -
[77]
I fail to understand why the kestrel firing 2 cruise missiles and being able to take out any other frigate is a problem. It has a huge target range, one appropriate only to cruise missiles. However, 4 heavy missiles would accomplish the same result and cheaper, would it not? Missiles are expensive and the game provides numerous ways to defend against them - they should inflict significant damage when they hit.
That aside, a number of frigates can fire 2-3 missiles at a time and accomplish the same result. A number of them are only viable combat options in regions of space where npc rats spawn at challenging rates now with heavy missiles because it takes so long to launch missiles unless you use a launcher that has seriously nerfed capacity and requires your constant attention. In a lot of cases I would really like to be able to put a turret gun where I have to put a missiles launcher now because player fired missiles are crap when compared to the costs and chance of hitting an asteriod or getting shot down.
I have lost far more ships to npc pirates successfully hitting me with missiles fired at fast rate from double to triple my range for the same type of missile and without regard for all asteroids between us that prevent my larger missiles from getting to them. Why not nerf the NPC's missiles instead?
Leave player missiles alone and leave it so frigates can fire cruise missiles. You can only fire one per M-12 and have to wait the deactive time, lag and reload time.
In a traditional navy a Battleship all alone at sea would be easy pickings for a dedicated missile cruiser or frigate carrying the appropriate weapons. In fact, if you look at current naval ships, specialized missile cruisers carry far more firepower (missiles) than the battleship they escort.
Enough things have been made "harder" as is (the ores you can safely mine in mining configured ship, forcing players to runs agent missions if they want any tech 2 stuff, key ores and thus cruisers and battleships at vastly increase prices, etc) and CCP will be the ultimate loser as subscriptions like mine that are actively played at the moment run out and are not renewed.
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NeoMorph
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Posted - 2004.01.08 06:49:00 -
[78]
Signed
Just finished training up Cal BS lvl 2 and was about to build my Raven... think I will hold off now.
In the meantime I'm gonna build another Apoc 
-------------------------------------------
<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.01.08 07:16:00 -
[79]
Quote:
Signed
Just finished training up Cal BS lvl 2 and was about to build my Raven... think I will hold off now.
In the meantime I'm gonna build another Apoc
Did you read the thread and realize TomB posted these changes won't go on to TQ?
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.08 07:29:00 -
[80]
Quote:
Quote:
Signed
Just finished training up Cal BS lvl 2 and was about to build my Raven... think I will hold off now.
In the meantime I'm gonna build another Apoc
Did you read the thread and realize TomB posted these changes won't go on to TQ?
H-50 Capacity might get nerfed though..
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.01.08 08:27:00 -
[81]
Quote:
Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4.
There is only one module a combat frigate needs to counter cruise missiles. It's name start with Micro and ends in Warpdrive.
Of course it also requires some manual navigating. But so far from the moment Castor got imped anything that had to do with manual navigating is gettting nerfed.
Yeah readuce pvp to 3 right clicks 2 left clicks and a bunch of F1-8 button presses.
An incursus with blasters on can destroy any other frigate way faster than a kestrel can, why not nerf that as well?
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Kaylon Syi
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Posted - 2004.01.08 10:28:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Kaylon Syi on 08/01/2004 10:31:14
Edited by: Kaylon Syi on 08/01/2004 10:28:54
Quote:
Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4.
Missiles will get tweaking, more ideas have come on how tweaking them will be possible.
Thread will start in ships & modules when it starts.
Absolutely not the problem TomB. To use cruise missiles you must undergo serious training. The only problem that is BEING addressed is only 1 aspect of the game ... people who choose to fly frigates versus frigates. However, your changes affect EVERYONE. I fly Breachers, Rifters, Inquisitors, Celestis, Bellicose, Megathron, Apoc, Typhoon ( current ) and Tempest and never once have i faced anything less than a Blackbird in my frigates. So now I am being penalized, as players like me, because someone chooses to not equip their frigate that is built for defense against Kestrel, aka Tristan, Vigil, Incursus and the others similar in loadout ) with the proper gear. That seems to me you are ruining the PvP aspect of frigates, Cruisers, and Battleships to hand feed a certain group of people.
This doesn't mean H-50s and Siege and M-12s shouldn't recieve some love... but not like this. I think that would really make me use my dominix for PvP if you ever did major changes like this... because I would loadout 4 425mm, 1 Heavy Nuetron and 1 Medium 'Notos' and spank most Battleships to HELL and back PERIOD.
Moral to my ramble is --
One good nerf deserves another.
/signed
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QuantumX
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Posted - 2004.01.08 14:12:00 -
[83]
dont nerf missiles
but DO NERF Npc missile spam, they should not be able to use missiles quicker that player controlled character. (i'm talking about the Guristas here)
/signed
==========================
I came i saw i got blown up!
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Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2004.01.08 16:08:00 -
[84]
*signed*
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Siphol Kalarth
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Posted - 2004.01.08 17:14:00 -
[85]
Seems to me that the reason for the size change is to stop kestrels and other missile capable frigates from killing frigates with cruise missiles. Why not tweak the agility, turning radius of cruise missiles so that the only way a cruise missile can hit a frigate is if the frigate pilot is stupid enough to fly slowly in a line.
I remember a time when missiles used to circle my merlin forever and never hit, yet got my blackbird regularly.
This would also stop cruiser/battleship's from just shooting frigates with missiles to kill them. (turret ships have the tracking issue already in theory)
I keep faith, it's only what I believe in that changes.
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TMX
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Posted - 2004.01.08 17:43:00 -
[86]
plz dont change it
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Live fast die young, clone and take revenge! |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.01.08 17:46:00 -
[87]
Quote:
Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4.
Missiles will get tweaking, more ideas have come on how tweaking them will be possible.
Thread will start in ships & modules when it starts.
Means I only have to intercept 2 out of 4 missiles from the Kestrel and feed it one of my own.
No problem 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Ruffles
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Posted - 2004.01.08 20:13:00 -
[88]
TomB: Frigates using only afterburners, and without missiles launchers will have issues, unless they have the PG to fit micro smarts.
Turret only cruiers may have a hard time too, but then again they have more high slots, and often drones to eat the frigates at least.
But wasn't that why missiles were used against these races? Because they were effective against them?
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Kapernik
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Posted - 2004.01.08 21:41:00 -
[89]
/singed
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Adliger Krieger
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Posted - 2004.01.08 22:01:00 -
[90]
This is easy to solve CCP. Make Launchers have sizes like Turrets. S, M, L. Frigs can fit small(A-3), Cruisers fit small and medium(H-50, Malkouth), BS gets all (S-110, etc). Penalize the launchers and you will have some very pi$$ed hombres on your hands.
Personally, I dont think it has anything to do with concerns over frigs firing Cruise Missiles. I think CCP just wants to nerf Caldari and this is a lame, and transparent, excuse.
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