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Hanns
   |
Posted - 2004.01.07 01:27:00 -
[1]
If you think the changes to missiles on the test server is the wrong way of sorting out balance issues post your comments here, please keep it constructive and no trolling and flaming,
ALSO DO NOT POST HERE IF YOU ARE ALL FOR THE NEW CHANGES, PLEASE START YOUR OWN THREAD "I LOVE NEW CHANGES WOOT"
for thos of you who dont know, thye have changed the size of cruise and torps, so now you can only fir 2 cruise in a H-50 launcher!
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Znaei
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Posted - 2004.01.07 01:34:00 -
[2]
Signed.
They need to find a new way of stopping frigates using cruise missiles. This penelizes all the cruiser and Bs pilots wayyy too much.
clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh |
Masi
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Posted - 2004.01.07 01:40:00 -
[3]
signed! Was on Chaos today, suxs :/
-------------------------
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Valeria
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Posted - 2004.01.07 01:43:00 -
[4]
Almost done training for the Tempest... Scorpion will still serve a purpose as a sentry tank though. :(
In other words, these changes suck.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Valeria
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Posted - 2004.01.07 01:46:00 -
[5]
Also, they really really need to implement ship class limitations as statistics for modules. CCP seems to be against it and rather solve it by crunching numbers, but it would be so much easier to get things balanced.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.01.07 01:55:00 -
[6]
Dont like it one bit 
Spawn of the Devil
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Lhyda Souljacker
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Posted - 2004.01.07 01:58:00 -
[7]
Agreed . . . find another way if it's the Kestral that's the issue (although some would argue that the idea of a frigate with cruise missiles is inline with reality- think air launched anti-ship missiles). Wrong to penalize missile users even more by taking thier cargo hold away.
Also give us some better blasters. If Megathron pilots are going to have to fly down another BS's throat, we'd like to have the assurance that we are going to do more than 400 damage a pop.
... That's when I reach for my revolver ... |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.01.07 01:58:00 -
[8]
aye!
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
M0RIARTY
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Posted - 2004.01.07 01:59:00 -
[9]
Dont nerf the missiles CCP
Noo sig comming SOONÖ
===================================================
What are we going to do about all this ignorance and apathy?.... I don't know and I don't care! |
KIAInkZ
|
Posted - 2004.01.07 02:01:00 -
[10]
I just posted this in patch review. I like to try and give things a go before I dismiss them, so here's what I thought.
-------------------------
ok, I've just been playing with some loadouts on chaos.
Lasers are pretty much out of the question on a raven now. If you use large hybrids, it's a lot friendlier on the power requirements.
CPU is too high on siege. I had to fit 2 cpu enhancers (with electronics 5) to be about to mount 6 siege. Power grid is spot on.
The only boosters I needed to mount a decent loadout were 2 cpu enhancers, which still left 3 low slots free.
If the CPU requirement could be lowered slightly, then I don't think it will be as bad as I initially thought. The power usage is spot on, it means that lasers are out of the question now, but they can be replaced with 425's which are much friendlier on requirements.
Lower the CPU requirement, and it's kinda practical, but there's not much room for flexibility.
-------------------------------
---
Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
Sara Kerrigan
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Posted - 2004.01.07 02:03:00 -
[11]
/me signs. Already takes a lot of missiles to operate in a battle, increasing the size will further limit the number we can carry.
______________
The Kerrigan Chronicles |
Endorphin
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Posted - 2004.01.07 02:06:00 -
[12]
Why bother trying. CCP doesnt listen to a word you say. They only change things they think are important.
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Ganja
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Posted - 2004.01.07 02:10:00 -
[13]
Signed..
Even though you should have put this in Ships & Modules, as TomB monitors that forum, and he is the one responsible for the missile changes.
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.01.07 02:14:00 -
[14]
As it is implemented right now on Chaos, NO WAY. There are ways that it could be acceptable (e.g., weapons bay) but without further changes this cannot happen. Missiles suck right now why make them suckier?
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Mongo Peck
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Posted - 2004.01.07 02:19:00 -
[15]
Signed ...
Balance the ships and not "hump" the game ..
Mongo speaks !!
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Brukhai Khan
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Posted - 2004.01.07 02:25:00 -
[16]
Signed.
and I have looked at both sides of the medal. right now CM-loading Kestrels are good enough to make a dent, if they come in large numbers. but you need a lot of them to make a difference, since missile defense (even though defenders still aren¦t optimal) works fairly ok.
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Lord ofRedemption
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Posted - 2004.01.07 02:33:00 -
[17]
****STOP THE NERFING****
This is lame lame lame
_____________
Retirement closing in .
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Pann
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Posted - 2004.01.07 02:34:00 -
[18]
Moved from General Discussion.
Eve Community Manager
[email protected]
CCP |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.01.07 02:38:00 -
[19]
signed, sealed, and pondering having it etched onto every missile I own.
Stay away from my fieyapowah!
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Power
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Posted - 2004.01.07 02:41:00 -
[20]
Signed
|
Torvus Jay
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Posted - 2004.01.07 02:41:00 -
[21]
Signed.
In the very least the H-50s need to be need to be adjusted to compensate and make then carry the same numbers as now.
This change will kill frigates haveing any hope of being viable in battle.
______________
Aim careful, and look the devil in the eye. |
voogru
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Posted - 2004.01.07 02:47:00 -
[22]
Signed.
IMO, Put the sizes back to the way they were and make the cruise missile size 2.0 (Same size as torp) Problem solved.
-------
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes Guardian Enforcer, wrecking for 827.3 damage. |
Jael Markinsen
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Posted - 2004.01.07 03:21:00 -
[23]
Signed
|
Blade Durrant
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Posted - 2004.01.07 03:38:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Blade Durrant on 07/01/2004 03:38:58
Signed.
If they would multiply the damage on the missile by 2.5x just like the size then maybe not, but as it stands **** NO!!!
-"Podkilling is more than a hobby, Its a way of life."
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.07 04:10:00 -
[25]
Signed. These changes are the complete ruination of Caldari ships.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.01.07 04:26:00 -
[26]
... Kinda pointless attmept am afraid, but /signed because those changes cause so many bad sideeffects 'tis simply absurd.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.01.07 04:47:00 -
[27]
pointless but /signed
AAF way of "balancing" things...but whadda WE know eh? We only play the darn game.
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Tank CEO
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Posted - 2004.01.07 04:58:00 -
[28]
/SIGNED
---
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Fedaykin Naib
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Posted - 2004.01.07 06:10:00 -
[29]
/signed this is a bad idea
"Long Live the Fighters!"
"The weak come and go with time. The strong have remained" - v ger
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Golgrath
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Posted - 2004.01.07 06:18:00 -
[30]
/signed
They should instead decrease hold of of a3 and m-12 launchers and, to compensate, decrease size of rockets, defenders, light and heavy missiles.
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GrendelPrime
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Posted - 2004.01.07 07:04:00 -
[31]
signed... what a way to make every missile using ship in the game worthless. Please leave missiles alone
"Though you may die, do not give up your honor"
-- Miyamoto Musashi
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.01.07 07:23:00 -
[32]
Signed.
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Asma
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Posted - 2004.01.07 07:37:00 -
[33]
SIGNED
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Zaxx
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Posted - 2004.01.07 07:42:00 -
[34]
signed |
Radogor
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Posted - 2004.01.07 07:49:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Radogor on 07/01/2004 07:51:10
Signed.
To not touch M12, to not touch a cruise missile and a torpedo. Will suffice.
STOP STUPID CALDARIAN NERF
________________________________________________
Sorry no speak Engl =)
F1.F2.F3......F8
RUS-CORP
________________________________________________ |
Zen Later
|
Posted - 2004.01.07 08:01:00 -
[36]
Signed
Don't think missles need any changes what-so-ever here.
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Vultair
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Posted - 2004.01.07 08:03:00 -
[37]
Signed
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Dweia
|
Posted - 2004.01.07 08:13:00 -
[38]
/signed
so there goes the usefulness of my BB, Caracal and Scorp? all in the same month. |
Cara 'Than
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Posted - 2004.01.07 08:32:00 -
[39]
/signed
Limit Missles to launchers but don't increase their volume. If u have to.
__________________
"Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to suffering." |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.01.07 08:55:00 -
[40]
Why on earth should frigates not be able to launch cruises?
Apart from any RP reasons. I can't simply think of why?
Are they imbalanced? that would imply that they cannot be countered.
Can they be countered? you bet they can. There are loadouts for the Incursus, Rifter, Merlin that can cream a Kestrel or Inquisitor. It's even easier for Cruisers to tackle them.
So where is the problem?
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.01.07 08:58:00 -
[41]
Hi, I'm TomB. On tonights show, I'll be showing you how to REALLY **** over the Caldari ships.
/signed.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Drachir
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Posted - 2004.01.07 09:06:00 -
[42]
/signed
|
Johnson McCrae
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Posted - 2004.01.07 09:11:00 -
[43]
/signed
Here's a better idea, change the H-50 class launchers so they cant be mounted on frigates. You nerfed Sieges so they can't be mounted on cruisers, so what's the problem?
It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya!
[ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
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Dell
|
Posted - 2004.01.07 09:17:00 -
[44]
/Signed!
==>WTS<== Raven Indy! will swap for homeless!
RN Killboard
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ThunderBolt
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Posted - 2004.01.07 09:30:00 -
[45]
/Signed !!!
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Greyfang
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Posted - 2004.01.07 09:34:00 -
[46]
signed...
<img src="http://www.otics.org/Eve/sigs/greyfang-sig1.gif"> |
Ruffles
|
Posted - 2004.01.07 09:46:00 -
[47]
/signed
Please have people test with some stock kit too - M12 Launcher 1's, H50 Launcher 1's, not just Arblest all the time.
I am not sure you would have given the missile launchers the 25% refire rate change in Castor if you had. 
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EvilDoomer
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Posted - 2004.01.07 10:19:00 -
[48]
 Quote:
If you think the changes to missiles on the test server is the wrong way of sorting out balance issues post your comments here, please keep it constructive and no trolling and flaming,
ALSO DO NOT POST HERE IF YOU ARE ALL FOR THE NEW CHANGES, PLEASE START YOUR OWN THREAD "I LOVE NEW CHANGES WOOT"
for thos of you who dont know, thye have changed the size of cruise and torps, so now you can only fir 2 cruise in a H-50 launcher!
PLEASE Dont do this.....
You would be killing Caldari ships firepower.
If a different race cannot beat Caldari dont nerf us make them stronger not us weaker.
VOTE NO!!!! NO Changes to my H50.
Thanks
EvilDoomer
Chicago Mobsters
** Ghost Fleet Pilot **
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Siphol Kalarth
|
Posted - 2004.01.07 10:29:00 -
[49]
/signed
races = races - 1
I keep faith, it's only what I believe in that changes.
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Artean
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Posted - 2004.01.07 10:41:00 -
[50]
signed. |
Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.01.07 11:09:00 -
[51]
signed.
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Psy Corp
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Posted - 2004.01.07 11:11:00 -
[52]
SIGNED P0w3r t0 t3h p30pl3 
I Have The Power Of The Mighty Lo.0lipop..
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Nordmann
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Posted - 2004.01.07 11:22:00 -
[53]
i love the change
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DAViiD
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Posted - 2004.01.07 11:41:00 -
[54]
/signed
D.
Lokan > This is more boring as listening to golf on radio! |
Grut
|
Posted - 2004.01.07 11:46:00 -
[55]
Signed
Mostly harmless |
Jacen Solo
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Posted - 2004.01.07 12:02:00 -
[56]
Signed.
My poor Typhoon will become useless with new Cruise nerf...
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Erim Kaluk
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Posted - 2004.01.07 12:08:00 -
[57]
Just a weird thought here. Maybe they're going to drop Tech 2 launcher BP's that can carry more?
Just a thought though.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.01.07 12:22:00 -
[58]
Dont nerve missiles again! Boost all weapons! Most 1 vs 1 combats in BS are simple ammo waste - nearly impossible to destroy a good fitted tank.
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Chris
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Posted - 2004.01.07 12:34:00 -
[59]
Signed.
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Zeith
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Posted - 2004.01.07 12:44:00 -
[60]
SUX big time. Makes Caldari BS rather useless exept if u fit'em out as tanks.
Think twice before doing this CCP. |
heavyg
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Posted - 2004.01.07 12:45:00 -
[61]
Signed
|
TIvian
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Posted - 2004.01.07 12:56:00 -
[62]
AGAIN I say leave the missles alone. They are the Main Stay Weapon of the Caldari. and no matter what you do to the other class of missles they won't compare.
In order for me to keep up with those that use gunz I have to hit hard. and the onley way to do it is through cruise missles or torps......AND THOSE DON'T ALWAYS HIT!!!
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) Teh Uber Asheron's Call Bunny Booty WTFPWNZ you!! |
Seleene
|
Posted - 2004.01.07 13:19:00 -
[63]
Signed. Leave my missiles alone!!!
-
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Tano
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Posted - 2004.01.07 13:19:00 -
[64]
/signed
|
MSDborris
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Posted - 2004.01.07 13:27:00 -
[65]
/signed
*****
" MSDborris, " Baka!, Hentia! "
***** |
TomB
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Posted - 2004.01.07 14:01:00 -
[66]
Missile volume will not go on Tranquility like they are currently on Chaos, I'll start a threat on modules & ships forum when tuning starts.
"Where is my hat?" |
Dell
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Posted - 2004.01.07 14:23:00 -
[67]
Victory! nice1, does that mean you will be changing chaos back soon 
RN Killboard
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.01.07 14:30:00 -
[68]
Quote:
Missile volume will not go on Tranquility like they are currently on Chaos, I'll start a threat on modules & ships forum when tuning starts.
Quote:
TomB > But we are removing the feature for frigates to be able to shoot cruise missiles for sure
Hope the 'why' is good on that. We're not NPCs capable of sending streams of heavies.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
McWatt
|
Posted - 2004.01.07 17:13:00 -
[69]
Edited by: McWatt on 07/01/2004 17:14:02
Quote:
TomB > But we are removing the feature for frigates to be able to shoot cruise missiles for sure
the real problem (as has been said before) is the use of cruise missiles against frigates, not by them.
(and i still believe that the whole agility thing needs some looking into..)
this "fix" will make frigates less worthy for combat again, and i m kind of fed up with this "to and fro".
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SithEwok
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Posted - 2004.01.07 17:14:00 -
[70]
STOP HIRING MARK MCGUIRE TO SWING THAT NERF BAT!!
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Brukhai Khan
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Posted - 2004.01.07 17:34:00 -
[71]
TomB, for clarification could you please tell us why using cruises on frigates is not ok? And what the intended direction of the changes will be?
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fluffle
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Posted - 2004.01.07 17:42:00 -
[72]
signed, most definitely.
as someone who flies kestrels a *lot*, i think this will render them fairly useless. i can't see any real reason why you shouldn't be able to fit cruise missiles (in m-12 launchers) to a kestrel, this seems like an utterly pointless nerf to me.
--
Go Here if my sig looks grey, and next time use a good browser.
This is the way things have to be, the wise men wisely said.
So we believed... but some did not,
and though we never knew, the wise men wisely had them shot. |
TomB
|
Posted - 2004.01.07 22:48:00 -
[73]
Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4.
Missiles will get tweaking, more ideas have come on how tweaking them will be possible.
Thread will start in ships & modules when it starts.
"Where is my hat?" |
Red Six
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Posted - 2004.01.07 22:54:00 -
[74]
Signed.
Don't mess with the missles. Quit screwing the game up.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.01.07 23:00:00 -
[75]
"Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4."
... Doesn't it mean then the real problem is with cruise missiles being far too effective weapon against the frigates?
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Brukhai Khan
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:55:00 -
[76]
Quote:
Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4.
I agree, that¦s not a thing that should be possible. But personally I would favor an approach that would prohibit cruise missiles from hitting Frigates (at all), while leaving the Frigates ability to deal out (comparatively) large amounts of damage to bigger ships.
A possible way to solve this via missile volumes is to lower the sizes of heavy and light missiles accordingly, allowing "bombers" to retain their DoT output - but that doesn¦t really address the issue of frigate vs frigate combat.
lowering the scan resolution of the dedicated missile boats would probably help tho.
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Ardus Brintar
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Posted - 2004.01.08 03:00:00 -
[77]
I fail to understand why the kestrel firing 2 cruise missiles and being able to take out any other frigate is a problem. It has a huge target range, one appropriate only to cruise missiles. However, 4 heavy missiles would accomplish the same result and cheaper, would it not? Missiles are expensive and the game provides numerous ways to defend against them - they should inflict significant damage when they hit.
That aside, a number of frigates can fire 2-3 missiles at a time and accomplish the same result. A number of them are only viable combat options in regions of space where npc rats spawn at challenging rates now with heavy missiles because it takes so long to launch missiles unless you use a launcher that has seriously nerfed capacity and requires your constant attention. In a lot of cases I would really like to be able to put a turret gun where I have to put a missiles launcher now because player fired missiles are crap when compared to the costs and chance of hitting an asteriod or getting shot down.
I have lost far more ships to npc pirates successfully hitting me with missiles fired at fast rate from double to triple my range for the same type of missile and without regard for all asteroids between us that prevent my larger missiles from getting to them. Why not nerf the NPC's missiles instead?
Leave player missiles alone and leave it so frigates can fire cruise missiles. You can only fire one per M-12 and have to wait the deactive time, lag and reload time.
In a traditional navy a Battleship all alone at sea would be easy pickings for a dedicated missile cruiser or frigate carrying the appropriate weapons. In fact, if you look at current naval ships, specialized missile cruisers carry far more firepower (missiles) than the battleship they escort.
Enough things have been made "harder" as is (the ores you can safely mine in mining configured ship, forcing players to runs agent missions if they want any tech 2 stuff, key ores and thus cruisers and battleships at vastly increase prices, etc) and CCP will be the ultimate loser as subscriptions like mine that are actively played at the moment run out and are not renewed.
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NeoMorph
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Posted - 2004.01.08 06:49:00 -
[78]
Signed
Just finished training up Cal BS lvl 2 and was about to build my Raven... think I will hold off now.
In the meantime I'm gonna build another Apoc 
-------------------------------------------
<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Jarjar
|
Posted - 2004.01.08 07:16:00 -
[79]
Quote:
Signed
Just finished training up Cal BS lvl 2 and was about to build my Raven... think I will hold off now.
In the meantime I'm gonna build another Apoc
Did you read the thread and realize TomB posted these changes won't go on to TQ?
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.08 07:29:00 -
[80]
Quote:
Quote:
Signed
Just finished training up Cal BS lvl 2 and was about to build my Raven... think I will hold off now.
In the meantime I'm gonna build another Apoc
Did you read the thread and realize TomB posted these changes won't go on to TQ?
H-50 Capacity might get nerfed though..
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.01.08 08:27:00 -
[81]
Quote:
Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4.
There is only one module a combat frigate needs to counter cruise missiles. It's name start with Micro and ends in Warpdrive.
Of course it also requires some manual navigating. But so far from the moment Castor got imped anything that had to do with manual navigating is gettting nerfed.
Yeah readuce pvp to 3 right clicks 2 left clicks and a bunch of F1-8 button presses.
An incursus with blasters on can destroy any other frigate way faster than a kestrel can, why not nerf that as well?
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Kaylon Syi
|
Posted - 2004.01.08 10:28:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Kaylon Syi on 08/01/2004 10:31:14
Edited by: Kaylon Syi on 08/01/2004 10:28:54
Quote:
Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4.
Missiles will get tweaking, more ideas have come on how tweaking them will be possible.
Thread will start in ships & modules when it starts.
Absolutely not the problem TomB. To use cruise missiles you must undergo serious training. The only problem that is BEING addressed is only 1 aspect of the game ... people who choose to fly frigates versus frigates. However, your changes affect EVERYONE. I fly Breachers, Rifters, Inquisitors, Celestis, Bellicose, Megathron, Apoc, Typhoon ( current ) and Tempest and never once have i faced anything less than a Blackbird in my frigates. So now I am being penalized, as players like me, because someone chooses to not equip their frigate that is built for defense against Kestrel, aka Tristan, Vigil, Incursus and the others similar in loadout ) with the proper gear. That seems to me you are ruining the PvP aspect of frigates, Cruisers, and Battleships to hand feed a certain group of people.
This doesn't mean H-50s and Siege and M-12s shouldn't recieve some love... but not like this. I think that would really make me use my dominix for PvP if you ever did major changes like this... because I would loadout 4 425mm, 1 Heavy Nuetron and 1 Medium 'Notos' and spank most Battleships to HELL and back PERIOD.
Moral to my ramble is --
One good nerf deserves another.
/signed
|
QuantumX
|
Posted - 2004.01.08 14:12:00 -
[83]
dont nerf missiles
but DO NERF Npc missile spam, they should not be able to use missiles quicker that player controlled character. (i'm talking about the Guristas here)
/signed
==========================
I came i saw i got blown up!
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Raven DeBlade
|
Posted - 2004.01.08 16:08:00 -
[84]
*signed*
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Siphol Kalarth
|
Posted - 2004.01.08 17:14:00 -
[85]
Seems to me that the reason for the size change is to stop kestrels and other missile capable frigates from killing frigates with cruise missiles. Why not tweak the agility, turning radius of cruise missiles so that the only way a cruise missile can hit a frigate is if the frigate pilot is stupid enough to fly slowly in a line.
I remember a time when missiles used to circle my merlin forever and never hit, yet got my blackbird regularly.
This would also stop cruiser/battleship's from just shooting frigates with missiles to kill them. (turret ships have the tracking issue already in theory)
I keep faith, it's only what I believe in that changes.
|
TMX
|
Posted - 2004.01.08 17:43:00 -
[86]
plz dont change it
-------------------------------------------
Live fast die young, clone and take revenge! |
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2004.01.08 17:46:00 -
[87]
Quote:
Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4.
Missiles will get tweaking, more ideas have come on how tweaking them will be possible.
Thread will start in ships & modules when it starts.
Means I only have to intercept 2 out of 4 missiles from the Kestrel and feed it one of my own.
No problem 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Ruffles
|
Posted - 2004.01.08 20:13:00 -
[88]
TomB: Frigates using only afterburners, and without missiles launchers will have issues, unless they have the PG to fit micro smarts.
Turret only cruiers may have a hard time too, but then again they have more high slots, and often drones to eat the frigates at least.
But wasn't that why missiles were used against these races? Because they were effective against them?
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Kapernik
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Posted - 2004.01.08 21:41:00 -
[89]
/singed
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Adliger Krieger
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Posted - 2004.01.08 22:01:00 -
[90]
This is easy to solve CCP. Make Launchers have sizes like Turrets. S, M, L. Frigs can fit small(A-3), Cruisers fit small and medium(H-50, Malkouth), BS gets all (S-110, etc). Penalize the launchers and you will have some very pi$$ed hombres on your hands.
Personally, I dont think it has anything to do with concerns over frigs firing Cruise Missiles. I think CCP just wants to nerf Caldari and this is a lame, and transparent, excuse.
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MoorePhy
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Posted - 2004.01.09 11:52:00 -
[91]
Signed |
Khal St
|
Posted - 2004.01.09 12:08:00 -
[92]
/scribble
Leave 'dem Kessies alone....
Only the insane prosper, only those who prosper can truly judge what is sane...
Try TXI's Cal-afeÖ - That Caldari Power Taste!
and now..
Tri-StarsiÖ - Power, Wealth & Revenge!
|
Jaabaa Prime
|
Posted - 2004.01.09 17:52:00 -
[93]
*Signed*
If this is just about stopping instant kills with a kestrel on indys, then giving indys the option of mounting an M12 (or like ilk) with defenders could be a better way to go. |
Kaylon Syi
|
Posted - 2004.01.09 18:42:00 -
[94]
Quote:
*Signed*
If this is just about stopping instant kills with a kestrel on indys, then giving indys the option of mounting an M12 (or like ilk) with defenders could be a better way to go.
Its about Kestrels only needing 2 of their 4 high slots to kill another frigate. That said... its rediculous. I only need 2 of my 4 highs on my Breacher too... though 1 is a turret. I just don't see the problem. Remember the TIE-Bomber from Starwars... obviously other sci-fi genre's understand the small, high powered ships.
On a side note... Indies should get the choice of a launcher point and should be able to use cruise as well. They are huge ships and should be able to defend against Cruisers. And I down right fancy the idea of my Mammoth unloading some Frigate Using cruise Missiles on me in 0.0.
Leave everything alone TomB. And bring out the other Missile Launchres ( aka the ones on EVE-DB that we haven't seen yet ) because your nerfing now may need renerfing in the future with their release... and we will be here yet again complaining.
- One good nerf deserves another
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KrapYl
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Posted - 2004.01.10 02:46:00 -
[95]
some said missiles stinks currently... HMMM!
how come ANY and i do mean ANY person going into PvP, has more launchers on his scorp, then turrets... every caldari ship u see, u know has max launchers on it... no question asked...
i do believe Kestrel shouldnt fire of cruisemissiles... but it has nothing to do with the size of the missiles, or the other higherclassed ships... dont touch anything else but the kestrel and other frigates firing these highpowered missiles...
Make launchers/missiles grouped like Turrets/ammo currently is... S for S, M for M, L for L...
/Signed ¢
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Slave Miner
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Posted - 2004.01.10 09:35:00 -
[96]
Quote:
some said missiles stinks currently... HMMM!
how come ANY and i do mean ANY person going into PvP, has more launchers on his scorp, then turrets... every caldari ship u see, u know has max launchers on it... no question asked...
/Signed ¢
There is a reason, it's because they can't fit more turrets than launchers.
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Slithereen
|
Posted - 2004.01.10 11:57:00 -
[97]
Please no changes.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Fan Basto
|
Posted - 2004.01.10 12:25:00 -
[98]
signed
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CT BadIronTree
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Posted - 2004.01.10 13:17:00 -
[99]
I LOVE THIS NEW CHANGES
All other BS suck in pvp
give some love to Gallende to :P
caldary BS must be a electronic war ship not the perfect pvp ship :(
you want fire power drive amar or gallende ship..
you want electronic war buy caldary
============================================
Colossus Technologies
The first and oldest corp in eve!
BadIronTree Head of Production
CSM Chat Log September 25, 2003:
Fuhry> Some things we simply cannot test, and therefore we just put it on Tranq. cross our fingers and then get into panic mode.
---------------------------------------
playing (or beta testing)since Sat, 2 Nov 2002 16:06 (beta 5)
---------------------------------------
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KrapYl
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 01:44:00 -
[100]
Quote:
Quote:
some said missiles stinks currently... HMMM!
how come ANY and i do mean ANY person going into PvP, has more launchers on his scorp, then turrets... every caldari ship u see, u know has max launchers on it... no question asked...
/Signed ¢
There is a reason, it's because they can't fit more turrets than launchers.
so a scorp doesnt have 6 high points.... 4 launchers, 4 turrets ?... and every isnt using 4 launchers along with 2 turrets ?..... IS THAT WHAT UR SAYING ?
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Buddrow
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Posted - 2004.01.11 01:45:00 -
[101]
signed,
what are ya trying to do to caldari here, come on now...... 4 turrets with 4 launchers cannot compete with 8 turrets. and we can't use launchers if you do this now. or i guess we could try......
----------------------------------
"Give me but one firm spot on which to stand, and I will move earth."
Archimedes c.287 - 212 BC
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Bared Bel'Medar
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Posted - 2004.01.11 02:33:00 -
[102]
I hate it. CCP needs subly.
I am Jack's broken moral compass. I am Jack's STILL trapped in eve limbo. maybe not for much longer... |
Nervar
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 02:36:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Nervar on 11/01/2004 02:56:10
For the love off God roll back this change, It accomplishes NOTHING. Well it does actually, it KILLS the raven wich have a hard time fitting anny siege as it is.
Cant see why one would want to take away frigs to use cruise, its not like there is allot off frig pvp out there, making example the kessie owerpowered.
If you really want to kill frigs abillety to use cruise:
1:Decrease m-12`s and bellow inn capacity
2:Decrease size off heavyes,lights,rockets and defenders inn size.......
Voila, """problem solved"""
And last: Why fix something that is allready working.....
Oh and the people crying about all other ships are crap compared with the raven/scorp... get a grip. There are NO major imbalances inn BS todate. Only bad setups, i sugest you wiiner babys learn how to equip a ship, before screaming for a nerf cause you dont have the IQ to come up with a good setup.
And for the guy that wiined about the caldari dont use more guns is: First off all rails suck duck on CALDARI ships.
Second have you ever tryed to fit a 4 rails and 4 launchers while maintaining a god medium and low slot setup on a raven..... didnt think so
The Scorp, dosnt get hit this hard as it can actually fit 4 siege while maintaining a good low and med slot setup
------------------------------------------------->
What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
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ElDiabloRojo
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Posted - 2004.01.11 14:38:00 -
[104]
Edited by: ElDiabloRojo on 11/01/2004 14:48:36
Edited by: ElDiabloRojo on 11/01/2004 14:44:45
dont like the sound of that 1 bit :(
*signs*
whats the point of having an S-110 if u can only use 5 missiles in it, thus leaving 1 capasity that will never get used? gonna rename them to S-100s?
Or maybe we should start putting 6 launchers with Heavy missiles in???
If u really must do this to stop Frigates boost the ravens CPU and give it a new type of launcher so we can fit 6 of them with more then 5 cruise missiles in (11 would be nice ) and thus keep it the same in terms of fire power whilst nerfing the frigates?
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.01.11 14:56:00 -
[105]
leave my bloody kestrel alone.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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hazeb
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 14:56:00 -
[106]
signed
|
Luvsto Haight
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Posted - 2004.01.11 16:02:00 -
[107]
and leave my inquisitor alone to
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ChaosOne
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Posted - 2004.01.11 18:13:00 -
[108]
Edited by: ChaosOne on 11/01/2004 18:15:47
signed
why nerf an entire races ships cos of 1 ship. find another way ccp.
------------------------------------------------
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Rangar
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:18:00 -
[109]
I hate it too
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Shania Twain
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:19:00 -
[110]
bad changes, very bad
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 22:24:00 -
[111]
Quote:
bad changes, very bad
They don't impress you much?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Star Nove
|
Posted - 2004.01.11 23:24:00 -
[112]
Signed
Missiles are cool. CCP DONT KILL THEM!!!
-nove
-------------------------
The great comic WDA |
James McGowen
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 02:04:00 -
[113]
Edited by: James McGowen on 12/01/2004 02:05:28
Edited by: James McGowen on 12/01/2004 02:05:11
Makeing frig launchers and missles smaller, not torps/crusies/siege launchers bigger would be a better idea imho....
*signed*
----------------------------------------
"To err is human"
To really foul up requires a computer. |
Tank CEO
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 09:56:00 -
[114]
/Signed again
Tomb if you do this nerf, your new nick name with be dumbass. 
---
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Nephlite
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 10:17:00 -
[115]
signed
|
Atea
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 11:51:00 -
[116]
did i sign already? nm.
/signed
I think the changes might come out nicely with a few adaptions, what I¦d love to see is more variety when it comes to missiles. Like ship class specific ones (same as ammo), or special launchers, or more missile types....
if heavies were to be decreased in size that would encourage kestrel pilots to stay in the fight for longer, not unload and warp out instantly.
xxx
Atea. |
zincol
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 15:00:00 -
[117]
w00t!
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Uuldahan
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 15:22:00 -
[118]
I think you guys should go in the "Ships and Modules" channel of the forum and discuss changes in the new thread created by TomB
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Shayden
|
Posted - 2004.01.12 19:34:00 -
[119]
Signed..
Plz dont let the other children laugh at me in my raven, plzzz i wont go back there! 
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Methesda
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Posted - 2004.01.13 04:02:00 -
[120]
If the kestrel really is the issue, then a few defenders in an a3, would sort it out, while you beat the s**t out of it with BigGuns(tm)...
If there is more than one kestrel, then thats tactics ain't it?
Or do defenders still not work right?
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Sarena Sparrow
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:41:00 -
[121]
Quote:
Maybe the reason being Kestrel able to take out any other frigate with 2 cruise missiles from two launchers when it has 4.
Missiles will get tweaking, more ideas have come on how tweaking them will be possible.
Thread will start in ships & modules when it starts.
I heard there was something called "Defender Missiles" and "Smartbombs" that will actually blow up cruise missiles!
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Synapse
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 14:10:00 -
[122]
singed.
what r ccp trying to do ? Nerf caldari (the missle bosts) even more ?
- + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + -
In a future where freedom is outlawed,
outlaws will become heros |
Mon Palae
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 17:34:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 13/01/2004 18:12:34
Quote:
... every caldari ship u see, u know has max launchers on it... no question asked...
Considering the Kestrel has 4 launcher slots only there isn't much choice there. The ONLY way I will ever try to fight anything bigger than a frigate while using a frigate is if it can fling cruise missiles. Anything else is sheer suicide and relegate frigs back to mothballed status. I can see making other frigs potentially too nimble to get hit by a cruise...that would make some sense.
As for those going on about the Raven being just fine and everyone else just needs to learn a good config obviously isn't paying attention. So far I see no push for mixed ship armadas except perhaps a Scorpion/Raven mix. I have an EVE-mail from CONCORD after getting blown to hell by Space Invaders. 10 ships were there of which 9 were Ravens and 1 Blackbird (not sure how he snuck in there). CLEARLY the Raven is the PvP ship of choice mayeb only equalled by the Scorpion. The ONLY other pirate BS I have ever had attack me is a Tempest gate camping 60+ km out.
Indeed, I partly blame CCP for showing us all the way. I do not recall nearly as many Raven's being around pre-Castor. Once everyone saw the ease with which Guristas ate up ships by missile spamming Ravens started popping up everywhere. I seriously doubt Space Invaders fielded 9 Ravens in one system because that is all that had to scrounge up. They did it because there is no good answer to that and they are devastating. Those 9 ships can dish 18,900 points of damage every 15-20 seconds (near 25,000 if they used torps) AND they can do so from darn near any range they deem best. NOTHING will put up with that for long! Even if you shield tank with hardeners and such and reduce damage to just 10% you're still sucking up 1,890 damage...say bye-bye to that ship pretty fast since of course once you start getting hit you likely won't be going to warp. Best you can do is an SBomb tank which they can either ignore because it cannot do much else or merely wait it out as the cap disappears.
There is no good defense against missile spamming except running away very very fast. Gurista's have show us that. If Defenders are working well now I haven't seen it (tried a Defender laden Caracal against Gurista...just delayed the inevitable by a few seconds and I was ripple firing Defenders all over the place). Time and again people have gone out with different configs to hunt Gurista and time and again had their a$$es handed to them. That includes very experienced PvP players who know what they are doing.
I have a Caracal and Kestrel and do not like the missile changes as they stand...especially not allowing frigates to carry cruise...but get real on what is going on out there.
Seems to me a better approach would be better ways to defend against missiles. Sbombs are tricky to time right and defenders are fine against only a few incoming missiles and are far too easily overwhelmed (although overwhelming one should always be a possibility). They both need to be better. Maybe Defenders should have a greater range to allow for missile screening ship to better escort other ships. Maybe sbombs should cycle faster or be a bit easier on the cap usage. Just ideas...
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Gavriel Giscard
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Posted - 2004.01.13 18:45:00 -
[124]
I'm just a noob, but I long for the day when CCP implements point-defense short-range laser turrets. Balancing would be required, of course, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be workable in principle.
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Morlocke
|
Posted - 2004.01.13 21:44:00 -
[125]
Yeah, I agree on the point-defense issue. Some discussions I've had with corp-mates lean towards a mid-slot targeter that a laser turret is tasked to, so you spend a slot on the PD effect and a turret slot on the defense itself.
Could actually turn out to be pretty cool, but we'll have to wait and see how things fall out everywhere else before that comes to pass, I'm sure.
M
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.01.13 21:45:00 -
[126]
Quote:
I'm just a noob, but I long for the day when CCP implements point-defense short-range laser turrets. Balancing would be required, of course, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be workable in principle.
Yes you are a noob.
Look, you either have to have limited anti missile tech, or you have to make missiles support weapons only, and not such a large part of the caldari/mimn fleet balance. Fine, give ravens another 5k grid and give em 6 turret slots.. Just what we need, another apoc clone...
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Gavriel Giscard
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Posted - 2004.01.14 00:30:00 -
[127]
Who the hell talked about making missiles secondary weapons? Hell, I have ONLY missiles. I ride a Kestrel, it's my only ship.
BUT I don't like the whole smartbomb thing. I see space fighting as a mostly longrange affair, and smartbombs go against that. My preferred model would be one without smartbombs, with 2 different antimissile technologies. One launcher-based, fire-and-forget style - Defenders. And one turret-based, with a lot shorter range but slightly bigger rate-of-fire. That solution of slaving a turret to a midslot targeter is nice, but I feel the ROF would be too high. I just want to kill smartbombs as an antimissile, especially reflex-based.
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Aldelphius
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Posted - 2004.01.14 01:46:00 -
[128]
/signed
at least tomb responded to us.
missile agility is all that needs to be looked at.
as for frigs arrying cm and torps..why not. most people must not like history, otherwise they would remember the PT boats the US used to harass the hell outa the jap's in WWII. hek, they were almost as effetive as submarines.
but the idea of a cm hitting a frig is like a RL torp being able to hit a speedboat. theres only a chance if the driver goes straight and slow.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.14 16:06:00 -
[129]
Everyone is on about shooting missiles down. Why not something like chaff and flare launchers that have a chance of spoofing the missile?
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Nagarutu Mishima
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Posted - 2004.01.24 02:00:00 -
[130]
Stop the damn nerf..
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Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.01.24 06:01:00 -
[131]
Quote:
Everyone is on about shooting missiles down. Why not something like chaff and flare launchers that have a chance of spoofing the missile?
It's called a defender missile.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Zarthan
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Posted - 2004.01.24 08:04:00 -
[132]
it's not the missels taht need tweaked. simply tweak the m12 launcher to not fit cruise missels. Or if you want to increase the volume of a cruise missel then increase the holding capacity of the h 50 launcher. 5 missels run out extremly fast as it is already (for that reason i don't use torpedos) personally i think an h50 should hold 10 and a 110 should hold 15-20. Not to mention missels are still extremly slow.
_______________________________________________________
Get custom sigs and graphics done here
Unforgivn Website
|
Brolly
|
Posted - 2004.01.24 14:20:00 -
[133]
No nerf purlease, nerfing is not the intelligent way forward, it's just a cop-out.
So, maybe the good old Kestrel can carry some heavy ammo, their are a myriad of ways this can be addressed besides cutting down the stats. You can create more modules for Anti missile defense, or maybe (yeah, this prolly sounds stupid) but give the option of locking onto missiles so you can shoot them.
From a gaming point of view it's F**cking annoying living in fear that all the time you invested in a game could be flushed down the pan tommorow.
Besides, there is never any ingame reason why items/ships change. I know it's just a game and all, but when the BS's got nerfed, there was no plot ingame which stated the reasons why they changed, the pilots just woke up one morning to find their ships ran like slugs.
So, there you have it, nerfing=no!, new ways to counter missiles=maybe 
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Lallante
|
Posted - 2004.01.25 01:36:00 -
[134]
I originally made this for the first major weapons nerf, but I think it hold now:
http://www.bartho.fsnet.co.uk/eve.gif
...no offence Pann
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.01.25 01:38:00 -
[135]
H-50s hold 5 cruise missles on Chaos now, the H-50 Arbalest holds 6 again.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Gess
|
Posted - 2004.01.25 15:26:00 -
[136]
signed!
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ViolatngUall
|
Posted - 2004.01.25 17:29:00 -
[137]
Blah blah blah, all these changes keep making the game more and more boring. Leave things alone for awhile, I'm totally against the change.
http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/2128t6G6B/19882.jpg |
Jarjar
|
Posted - 2004.01.25 18:16:00 -
[138]
Quote:
signed!
Umm, check the post before yours ^_^
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