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Solution to AFK Cloakers?

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ImYourMom Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution. 126	Posted - 2017.07.14 20:28:34 - [1] - Quote Can cloaks have a drain cap amount attribute, so that eventually cap runs out and decloaks? any cap mods regen/ bonuses are negated whilst cloak is activated so that people can just fill up on cap regen wouldn't this just be an easy, simple fix?
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 1216	Posted - 2017.07.14 20:42:10 - [2] - Quote Saddly, your thread is doomed to be locked and redirected to the several years old sticky at the top of the page. You should read and participate in that, though the usual trolls will wear you down in short order. Still, go there, new threads are pointless and silly.
ImYourMom Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution. 126	Posted - 2017.07.14 20:44:56 - [3] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Saddly, your thread is doomed to be locked and redirected to the several years old sticky at the top of the page. You should read and participate in that, though the usual trolls will wear you down in short order. Still, go there, new threads are pointless and silly. with 496 pages It would only get lost....
Old Pervert Perkone Caldari State 156	Posted - 2017.07.14 20:48:41 - [4] - Quote ImYourMom wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: Saddly, your thread is doomed to be locked and redirected to the several years old sticky at the top of the page. You should read and participate in that, though the usual trolls will wear you down in short order. Still, go there, new threads are pointless and silly. with 496 pages It would only get lost.... And rightly so. Your idea has been suggested about a billion times as a solution to something that isn't a problem. Stop being a coward. If someone's in local with you, either move to a different system or get a response fleet ready and bait them. The problem with AFK cloakers has never been the cloakers, it has always been the risk-averse cowards that won't even chance an encounter.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 1216	Posted - 2017.07.14 20:51:43 - [5] - Quote The problem is really the lack of options. With no way to force any action upon the cloaker, much less a fight, it creates a one sided "I Win" scenario where you can waste multiple peoples time indefinitely or simply leave the space entirely by either moving systems or logging off.
Old Pervert Perkone Caldari State 157	Posted - 2017.07.14 20:56:06 - [6] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: The problem is really the lack of options. With no way to force any action upon the cloaker, much less a fight, it creates a one sided "I Win" scenario where you can waste multiple peoples time indefinitely or simply leave the space entirely by either moving systems or logging off. So your solution to a pvp game is to avoid pvp? See my previous post about being a coward. If you want space, be prepared to fight for it. Sheep or wolf, you choose which you are. EDIT: Start ratting in this for a while. When they drop on you... you counter-drop on them. Sure your ticks will suck, but you aren't sitting in a station, and as soon as they DO drop on you, the problem goes away and you can go back to your max-tick fit. [Vexor Navy Issue, VNI Cynobait] Damage Control II 1600mm Steel Plates II Adaptive Nano Plating II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II 100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner Warp Scrambler II Warp Scrambler II Warp Disruptor II Cynosural Field Generator I Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Ancillary Current Router II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Praetor II x5 Liquid Ozone x500
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 3553	Posted - 2017.07.14 21:03:57 - [7] - Quote ImYourMom wrote: All cloaking modules to have a new cap drain amount attribute, once cloak is activated, cap depletes and eventually runs out and decloaks? any cap regen/ bonus mods are negated whilst cloaked, so that people cant just fill up on cap regen mods to overcome this. wouldn't this just be an easy, simple fix? There is nothing to be fixed. AFK cloaking is working as intended. CCP intends for nullsec to have risk, and while they seem to be failing a bit at that with how safe ratting and mining has become there, they certainly aren't going to make nullsec more safe by removing cloaky camping as a tactic to harass your opponents. I think the traditional advice for you is to "get gud", both in defending your space in nullsec, and in your ability to post suggestion in the forums in the proper place. The 8 Golden Rules of Eve Why Do They Gank?
Revis Owen The Conference Elite CODE. 547	Posted - 2017.07.14 21:25:23 - [8] - Quote What is the issue some people have with AFK cloakers? If they're AFK, they can't do anything to anyone. Also, IB4L. Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 1216	Posted - 2017.07.14 23:09:11 - [9] - Quote Old Pervert wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: The problem is really the lack of options. With no way to force any action upon the cloaker, much less a fight, it creates a one sided "I Win" scenario where you can waste multiple peoples time indefinitely or simply leave the space entirely by either moving systems or logging off. So your solution to a pvp game is to avoid pvp? See my previous post about being a coward. If you want space, be prepared to fight for it. Sheep or wolf, you choose which you are. EDIT: Start ratting in this for a while. When they drop on you... you counter-drop on them. Sure your ticks will suck, but you aren't sitting in a station, and as soon as they DO drop on you, the problem goes away and you can go back to your max-tick fit. [Vexor Navy Issue, VNI Cynobait] Damage Control II 1600mm Steel Plates II Adaptive Nano Plating II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II 100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner Warp Scrambler II Warp Scrambler II Warp Disruptor II Cynosural Field Generator I Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Ancillary Current Router II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Praetor II x5 Liquid Ozone x500 In the afk cloaker scenario, it is the cloaker that is hiding from pvp. There are no options for hunting him, which is why he is able to go afk. When he comes, he might come alone, or he might cyno in friends. If you get a defense fleet ready, he won't come at all... and then you are just wasting everyone's time. Or, you can just leave the space, either by logging or moving systems. Either way, the cloaker wins uncontested. The system is disrupted, it's value to those that would use it degraded, and no options to recoup that loss exist.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 1216	Posted - 2017.07.14 23:13:00 - [10] - Quote Revis Owen wrote: What is the issue some people have with AFK cloakers? If they're AFK, they can't do anything to anyone. Also, IB4L. So Clever! Oh, wait... The people he's 'fighting' have to stay at peak readiness at all times with no recourse to mitigate the danger he represents, despite having moved into the ass end of nowhere, taken the system, set up defense fleets, etc... Or they can just leave the system, either by logging or moving somewhere else. Either way, the cloaker wins uncontested, so safe he can do it while afk.

Empire Raider Spicy Onion Rings 3	Posted - 2017.07.14 23:36:04 - [11] - Quote IB4 topic locked... Yeah this thing about AFK cloakers has been posted over and over. If there's something this tells us is that CCP should do something about it, one way or another. Personally I don't think forcing them out of cloak is the solution, sometimes people just have to go AFK and there's nothing wrong about it. I don't think a perfect solution for this problem will ever exist, but they could start by the directional scanner. Being able to tell if there are cloaked ships around even if you remain oblivious to their hull type or exact position would be a great start. And if even that is too much to ask, make a specialized ship with that ability. This way cloaked ships can still prowl on solo targets but a fleet or a resident corporation with this specialized ship will be able to at least detect the threat.
grgjegb gergerg School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 70	Posted - 2017.07.14 23:38:58 - [12] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: There are no options for hunting him, which is why he is able to go afk. When he comes, he might come alone, or he might cyno in friends. If you get a defense fleet ready, he won't come at all... and then you are just wasting everyone's time. Or, you can just leave the space, either by logging or moving systems. Either way, the cloaker wins uncontested. The system is disrupted, it's value to those that would use it degraded, and no options to recoup that loss exist. This is one of the best assessments I've heard in a while. I can't quite put my finger on specifics, but the logic behind the cloaker being unable to do anything to anyone seems off, to me. Then they call the people farming cowards for avoiding pvp, unlike the... noble cloaker, hiding in cloak from pvp?
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3279	Posted - 2017.07.14 23:50:52 - [13] - Quote There's no consensus that AFK cloakers are a problem. Better start with establishing that before you start coming up with a solution. That aside, I doubt we can expect Big Things from you if you weren't bright enough to find the sticky thread. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 1274	Posted - 2017.07.15 01:53:32 - [14] - Quote Why is there a problem with a module that when activated you can't kill anyone and can't earn any ISK? Only PvE-ers in sov null complain about cloaking, and if they were on comms and in a standing defense fleet when online it would be a non-issue.
Empire Raider Spicy Onion Rings 3	Posted - 2017.07.15 03:00:23 - [15] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: Why is there a problem with a module that when activated you can't kill anyone and can't earn any ISK? Playing dumb wont earn you any points. You know very well why it's a problem.
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 3085	Posted - 2017.07.15 06:58:01 - [16] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: The problem is really the lack of options. With no way to force any action upon the cloaker, much less a fight, it creates a one sided "I Win" scenario where you can waste multiple peoples time indefinitely or simply leave the space entirely by either moving systems or logging off. No option to force interaction or a fight? Put ratting ships out and fit them properly and with a cyno and have a defense fleet ready, something that you have to have ready these days in any case because of all the Rorqs. If they don't bite, you can keep ratting, if they bite, you have your fight and they get dunked (ideally). UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3985	Posted - 2017.07.15 12:23:20 - [17] - Quote ImYourMom wrote: with 496 pages It would only get lost.... Your idea is on the first ******* page of that thread already. This thread doesn't just deserved to be locked, it should be fed to the dogs! EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
ImYourMom Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution. 126	Posted - 2017.07.15 13:09:10 - [18] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: ImYourMom wrote: with 496 pages It would only get lost.... Your idea is on the first ******* page of that thread already. This thread doesn't just deserved to be locked, it should be fed to the dogs! wow grow up and stop being such a drama queen, whats up with you....
ImYourMom Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution. 126	Posted - 2017.07.15 13:10:17 - [19] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: The problem is really the lack of options. With no way to force any action upon the cloaker, much less a fight, it creates a one sided "I Win" scenario where you can waste multiple peoples time indefinitely or simply leave the space entirely by either moving systems or logging off. No option to force interaction or a fight? Put ratting ships out and fit them properly and with a cyno and have a defense fleet ready, something that you have to have ready these days in any case because of all the Rorqs. If they don't bite, you can keep ratting, if they bite, you have your fight and they get dunked (ideally). You know that they fit cynos, and cynos jump in caps or blops etc? You know that right?
ImYourMom Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution. 126	Posted - 2017.07.15 13:11:42 - [20] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: There's no consensus that AFK cloakers are a problem. Better start with establishing that before you start coming up with a solution. That aside, I doubt we can expect Big Things from you if you weren't bright enough to find the sticky thread. Oh cmon with that stupid comment, honestly wtf... go play another game if you think that. 496 pages means theres a problem and even ccp states its a problem. it is a problem.

ImYourMom Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution. 126	Posted - 2017.07.15 13:14:30 - [21] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: ImYourMom wrote: All cloaking modules to have a new cap drain amount attribute, once cloak is activated, cap depletes and eventually runs out and decloaks? any cap regen/ bonus mods are negated whilst cloaked, so that people cant just fill up on cap regen mods to overcome this. wouldn't this just be an easy, simple fix? There is nothing to be fixed. AFK cloaking is working as intended. CCP intends for nullsec to have risk, and while they seem to be failing a bit at that with how safe ratting and mining has become there, they certainly aren't going to make nullsec more safe by removing cloaky camping as a tactic to harass your opponents. I think the traditional advice for you is to "get gud", both in defending your space in nullsec, and in your ability to post suggestions in the forums in the proper place. Stop, please just stop right there. CCP even state they know it s a problem. The problem aint afk cloaking, its the fact they can cyno in caps etc. Sorry i disagree wholeheartedly with your comments, we clearly and MANY others dont either.... Oh and someone who hides in highsec, and does lame ganking really hasnt got a clue what hes talking about. Why dont you come do some proper pvp?
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 3279	Posted - 2017.07.15 13:28:46 - [22] - Quote ImYourMom wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: There's no consensus that AFK cloakers are a problem. Better start with establishing that before you start coming up with a solution. That aside, I doubt we can expect Big Things from you if you weren't bright enough to find the sticky thread. Oh cmon with that stupid comment, honestly wtf... go play another game if you think that. 496 pages means theres a problem and even ccp states its a problem. it is a problem. Uh, when have CCP ever said that? 486 pages of a small handful of mewling candyasses who refuse to quit crying. HTFU. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 1216	Posted - 2017.07.15 14:28:52 - [23] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: The problem is really the lack of options. With no way to force any action upon the cloaker, much less a fight, it creates a one sided "I Win" scenario where you can waste multiple peoples time indefinitely or simply leave the space entirely by either moving systems or logging off. No option to force interaction or a fight? Put ratting ships out and fit them properly and with a cyno and have a defense fleet ready, something that you have to have ready these days in any case because of all the Rorqs. If they don't bite, you can keep ratting, if they bite, you have your fight and they get dunked (ideally). How exactly does that force any sort of non-consensual action on the cloaker? You can't make him attack. You can't make him run. You can't make him do anything he does not want to do. All you can do is raise his barrier of entry to initiate an attack--- wasting everyone's time. Or you can leave. Either way, he won uncontested.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 3554	Posted - 2017.07.15 14:40:43 - [24] - Quote ImYourMom wrote: Stop, please just stop right there. CCP even state they know it s a problem. The problem aint afk cloaking, its the fact they can cyno in caps etc. Sorry i disagree wholeheartedly with your comments, we clearly and MANY others dont either.... Sigh. Everyone acknowledges that campy cloaking is not ideal, but every single time when CCP discusses it, they point out that the problem that nullsec is suppose to be dangerous and they are not happy with the intel, and thus safety afforded by local and view cloaky camping as a counter to that. Do you really think, that if it was as simple as making cloaks turn off after some time, CCP might have gotten around to fixing it sometime in the last decade? Just kept slipping their mind, huh? If you are going with that, you must be more simple than your name would leave one to believe. You are suppose to be at risk. You are not suppose to be able to 100% secure your space. It's all working as intended. Feel free to continue to impotently whine on these forums, but there is not going to be a fix for cloaky camping that is so one-side and carebear friendly as to make nullsec PvE near invulnerable. A fix, if and when it ever comes, will put some risk into your nullsec grinding, not just make the "bad people" who scare you go away, and that is something this game desperately needs at this point. The 8 Golden Rules of Eve Why Do They Gank?
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 3086	Posted - 2017.07.15 14:52:00 - [25] - Quote ImYourMom wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: The problem is really the lack of options. With no way to force any action upon the cloaker, much less a fight, it creates a one sided "I Win" scenario where you can waste multiple peoples time indefinitely or simply leave the space entirely by either moving systems or logging off. No option to force interaction or a fight? Put ratting ships out and fit them properly and with a cyno and have a defense fleet ready, something that you have to have ready these days in any case because of all the Rorqs. If they don't bite, you can keep ratting, if they bite, you have your fight and they get dunked (ideally). You know that they fit cynos, and cynos jump in caps or blops etc? You know that right? I am well aware. I live in Null sec and I (used to) bait hunters regularly. It does not matter what they bring if you know it beforehand. That may require a sacrifice or two of your own to find out, it may only require a look at their killboard. It obviously also means that you need to know your surroundings and at least know from how far away BLOPS/caps can reach you or if there is a WH in the area with known droppers. Furthermore, not every cloaky camper has cynos, some just sit in your system to psychologically prevent you from doing something or make your defense fleets feel bored. Some cloaky campers are also completely useless because they sit somewhere in a ship that cannot warp cloaked, in other words, you know when they do something because you see them coming. I have done some extensive note taking on campers/hunters in my ratting areas and can tell with a great level of confidence what someone is going to do. This also helps a log against cloaky campers. Obviously, having competent neighbors who check signature for wormholes, roll them, or sacrifice themselves to campers so that you can find out what's going on helps a lot. @SurrenderMonkey It got mentioned again last Fanfest in one of the panels and (recollection from memory) Fozzy's team admitted that the camping in itself is not a problem but the psychological barrier it creates is problematic, and that they are thinking about how to tackle this. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 1290	Posted - 2017.07.15 16:21:01 - [26] - Quote -1 - there is no problem to be solved, that is why CCP has done nothing about it in the 7 years I have been in this game. Going with my standard here, you cannot see them, you cannot scan them, how do you know the player controlling that ship is AFK? ImYourMom wrote: wouldn't this just be an easy, simple fix? Been in EvE since 2010 and people have been complaining about AFK cloakers since I started. Yes you are right cap use would be simple to do, and over the over the years it has been suggested many times. Other people have suggested timers of one sort or another, heat build up in the module from use ultimately leading to failure due to overheating. Changing the probes back to a time when you could scan cloaked ships or adding a new type of probe that can only detect cloaked ships. And yet others have gone with a module or probes that can scan for heat with the logic being that any ship and it's systems would create heat and that heat could be easily detected against the cold backdrop of empty space. Still others have suggested magnetic anomaly detection systems like those used to hunt submarines in real life. So let us look at this from a different perspective. Several of these would be extremely simple to implement (cap and heat specifically). People have been suggesting them for all my time in the game. Any or all of them would control this AFK cloaking scourge you speak of. Despite how easy many of these would be to implement CCP has chosen NOT to do any of them. Simple elementary level logic dictates that there is only one answer here. CCP DOES not consider AFK cloaking to be a problem they need to solve. Which gets me back to where I started -1 to your idea it simply is not needed.
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 1274	Posted - 2017.07.15 17:59:02 - [27] - Quote Empire Raider wrote: Playing dumb wont earn you any points. You know very well why it's a problem. I actually don't. I'm in a fleet and on comms all the time I'm outside of HS. I always have a point fit to my PvE ships, so if I'm tackled I just lock the guy down, ask for help and 15 seconds later the fleet shows up and gets a kill. Standard doctrine for mining ships includes a point, yes you lose some yield, but you're not in HS. Fit your ships to defend yourself.
Cindy the Sewer School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 10	Posted - 2017.07.16 18:06:41 - [28] - Quote Congrats, you have submiited an idea that has been submitted 999,999 times before and so we hit the millionth time mark! btw.... YOU: Dear CCP, i have a great anti-camper idea ! CCP: Whatever it is the answer is NO ! Searing destruction of your viewpoint is incoming and no you won't win the discussion or even walk away with anything resembling a win, so bail out early or suffer repeated embarrassments. You have been warned.
Old Pervert Perkone Caldari State 165	Posted - 2017.07.16 18:24:23 - [29] - Quote How has this pointless thread not been locked yet? OP has some serious voodoo going on. You are very right, you can't force the cloaker to try and engage you. Just means you need to be smarter. While they're camping you, they aren't camping someone else. Consider their motivations: 1) Killing ships 2) Killing ships 3) Killing ships They cloaky camp space because they want someone to be overconfident, fit a max tick ratting ship, and start making isk. Then they drop in, kill it, and get their jollies. How much fun are they going to have when every time they drop on something, they get counter-dropped? How much fun are they going to have when they're the ones losing their gank-fit ships to a conventional pvp fleet? After the first couple drops, they're going to realize you're just ratting in bait ships, and that you have a response fleet ready. They will leave, because there are easier systems with stupid fucks in them that can't seem to figure this little bit out.
Daichi Yamato Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass 3985	Posted - 2017.07.16 23:01:30 - [30] - Quote Old Pervert wrote: How has this pointless thread not been locked yet? OP has some serious voodoo going on. Weekend. And these are no longer the proper forums. Isd's may be more focused on the discord forums. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs



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