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Why is the Falcon's recon bonus gimped vs other recons?

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Ashaz	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:44:00 - [31] Originally by: Rylet VanDorn Lachesis: 20% bonus scram range + 5% Missile ROF bonus (btw, wtf? Missile bonus on gallente recon?) Arazu: 20% bonus scram range + CovOps cloak. Loss: 5% missile ROF bonus. just gona comment on this. Yes missiles on a gallente ship. all of the pink T2 ships have missiles. it's their thing. They suck at guns tho, not to mention the microscopic dronebay on agallente ship. The arazu can't realy do anything either, except find and look at people while cloaked. Even if you skip the cloak and the probes, you'll only do 100dps with that thing. it's not a solomobile. it's a recon. Recognicense you know. (pardon the spelling :P )
Titano Rinaldo	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:53:00 - [32] Yes, the Falcon should get the same bonus as the Rook. ECM is ok, just the prob is even on a rook u need to offer at least 4 mids and 2 lows for ecm moduls to be effective. My corpmate tryed on me his rook yesterday(i need say i like ecm ships, and i use too. are great just need to know how to fit), he had 4 multispec ecm II's on and he had recon 3. i know is not the best fitting, after reconfiguring was much much better, but with 4 ecm II's he had not even 50% the time jammed my arbi. and thats bad. really bad. if u have offer 4 mod slots for t2 modules, and u cant jam a same class ship properly... However, the ship can be fitted much better and can permajam the same class, even a bigger ship right. The problem is as someone sad before me the eccm. if the enemy ship offer just 1 tiny little slot to fit an eccm, u have no chance, u died and thats not right. if u have a t2 specialised ship, full of ecm modules and have no chance to do the job becouse 1 module fitted on enemy thats wrong.... So think about PS. : Change this +kinetic damage to something usefull. it is bad enough that missiles have the less dps, and than to give such crappy bonus... Who's * idee was that??? Caldari can fit all the damage types, but kin is the mostly tanked one. how about than just giv kin damage bonus to the gallante or just thermal to amarr. See how * is the idee :)
Ashaz	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:02:00 - [33] Originally by: Rylet VanDorn Ehm... is that why the Amarr, the "oldest" race in the game, are stuck in the stone age in terms of ship bonuses and weapons systems? PS: Boost Amarr. ahem. this is a thread about recons, right? And you're saying boost amarr? There is one single black ship that is the reason I'm training amarr cruiser 5, on a gallente character. Quote: Also, I'd like to point out that Recons are technically new concepts in general, and Caldari are supposedly the best with fielding new concepts and bleeding-edge technology. Take a look at the Scorpion and Blackbird descriptions if you don't believe me. Correction. The only reason the caldari won the war over the technologicaly supperior gallente, was cause of their much greater numbers. Read the lore if you're gona use it as arguments.
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:19:00 - [34] Quote: Lastly ECCM modules need to be seriously toned down, they were balanced before the ECM nerf. Now they are grossly overpowered. ECCM is okay on frigates (as if anyone would fit ECCM on a frigate though) and cruisers, it's its application to bigger ships, those already with decent sensor strength, that it seems overpowered. Maybe a change to a flat bonus, instead of a %, would be better? I still don't understand your point about a 50% jam chance at max skills against the same ship class though. I don't have max skills, and my jam chances against frigates and cruisers are better than that. Using a single best-named racial mod, that is.
Morreia The Celestial Element	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:41:00 - [35] Originally by: Ashaz Originally by: Rylet VanDorn Lachesis: 20% bonus scram range + 5% Missile ROF bonus (btw, wtf? Missile bonus on gallente recon?) Arazu: 20% bonus scram range + CovOps cloak. Loss: 5% missile ROF bonus. just gona comment on this. Yes missiles on a gallente ship. all of the pink T2 ships have missiles. it's their thing. They suck at guns tho, not to mention the microscopic dronebay on agallente ship. The arazu can't realy do anything either, except find and look at people while cloaked. Even if you skip the cloak and the probes, you'll only do 100dps with that thing. it's not a solomobile. it's a recon. Recognicense you know. (pardon the spelling :P ) Lol, I'm not sure what your flying but the drones alone from an arazu can over 120dps against hull.
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:57:00 - [36] Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 25/05/2007 10:56:11 Originally by: Arushia Originally by: Rylet VanDorn Lachesis: 20% bonus scram range + 5% Missile ROF bonus (btw, wtf? Missile bonus on gallente recon?) That's Roden **yards for you. Originally by:** Morreia Originally by: Christopher Dalran Gallente pilot here Exchange the 40% vamp/neut range bonus with a bonus to projectile ROF and we'll talk. D WTF does that have to do with the falcon? It has everything to do with the Lachesis and how it needs love moreso than the Falcon. Lachesis is fine. If you have skills to fly it you'll find it high up on killmals for damage. ROF bonus is the win. It's the Arazu that can't shoot its way out of a paper bag. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
Sailon	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:32:00 - [37] dont underestimate falcon it can take bhaalgron down which curse or pilgrim cant it can also take other factions bs:es as well
Tozmeister Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:55:00 - [38] Thank you, i'm glad someone has brought this up as i was about to start a thread my self. 2 things about ECM and the Falcon; 1, Why does the Falcon only get 2 of it's primary weapon system's hardpoints with no ship bounuses at all? Why is the Falcon the only recon to get a damage reduction compered to its T1 parent? The Arazu and Rapier get 3 of their primary weapon systems with a bonus plus a 40m3 drone bay. the Pilgrim gets 3 hardpoints and a 75m3 dronebay with a damage and durability bonus. End result is the other 3 cloaking recons can put out 175 to 200 dps and the Falcon can only manage 50. 2, why does it need 3 ship bonuses just to bring Caldari's own brand of ewar upto to a competative level? All the other cloaking recons only need one ship bonus to their ewar, then they get a second ship bonus to (a form of) tackling (I include NOS as a from of tackling) and finaly a bonus to damage output. 3 needed ship bonuses on the best caldari ewar ships just to be equal/slightly better tells me that ECM has been over-nerfed. My Solution:- 1, Give all ECM modules a flat 100% buff to their optimal range. they get this from having Caldari cruiser 5 anyway so it's not going to bring any drastic changes and won't effect jamming strength at all. It'll still be useless on non-specific ewar ships. 2, replace the +20% optimal range bonus per level on all Caldari ewar ships to a +10% per level bouns to missile velocity. this will give missiles the range to partner their ecm range without increasing their DPS. 3, give the Falcon 4 missile harpoints and drop a low slot for an extra highslot. This will double its DPS to a whopping 100, Still half of the other cloaking recons but more flexible with it's new range bonus. +++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
Milton Keynes	Posted - 2007.05.25 16:26:00 - [39] Originally by: Ashaz The only reason the caldari won the war over the technologicaly supperior gallente, was cause of their much greater numbers. Read the lore if you're gona use it as arguments. WTF? Are you trying to be sarcastic? The Caldari State is (and always has been) MUCH SMALLER than the Gallente Federation. The reason the Caldari-Gallente war ended in a stalemate was because the Caldari were given pod technology by the Jovians. These allowed them to man their ships with much smaller crews and thereby field as many ships as the Gallente and fight them to a stand still. Also, the pods allowed those Caldari pilots who survived the pod installation procedure (which was much riskier in those early days) to return to the fight in a clone soon after being shot down. As a result the Gallente Federation found itself repeatedly fighting the Caldari's best pilots and realised that although it might win the war eventually, the cost of doing so would be horrific. So they offered a truce. After the war ended the commercially minded Caldari sold the Jovian pod technology to the other races. In conclusion, I quote your own words back at you... "Read the lore if you're gona use it as arguments."
Cletus Graeme Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.05.25 16:27:00 - [40] Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 25/05/2007 16:32:44 Sorry - above post was mine - this stupid account defaults to my alt instead of my main EDIT: I reply to the OP - yes, the Falcon badly needs some ECM love. Infact, so do all force recons in general. They need to be much better than other ships at what they are supposed to be specialised for which is scouting cloaked, making cynos, and racial ewar. As penalties they should have sucky dps and poor tanks - which is indeed already the case.
Rylet VanDorn Pastafarians Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.05.25 16:28:00 - [41] Edited by: Rylet VanDorn on 25/05/2007 16:27:03 Originally by: Ashaz ahem. this is a thread about recons, right? And you're saying boost amarr? There is one single black ship that is the reason I'm training amarr cruiser 5, on a gallente character. Ok I should have qualified my remark. Boost Amarr ships, except for Amarr Recons and Cap ships. Those are fine. Quote: Correction. The only reason the caldari won the war over the technologicaly supperior gallente, was cause of their much greater numbers. Read the lore if you're gona use it as arguments. The Gallente/Caldari war ENDED 93 years before the current state of things in the EvE Universe. Reference: http://www.eve-online.com/races/caldari_timeline.asp In the present, the Caldari possess the most technologically advanced military of all the 4 races, as evidenced in this excerpt from the racial description: "Even if the Caldari have not engaged in war for many decades, they still strive to be at the cutting edge of military technology and their vessels, weapons and fighting methods are inferior to none but the enigmatic Jovians." Reference: http://www.eve-online.com/races/caldari.asp No offense, but I suggest you make damn sure you know what you're talking about before accusing others of ignorance.
Milton Keynes	Posted - 2007.05.25 16:39:00 - [42] Originally by: Rylet VanDorn In the present, the Caldari possess the most technologically advanced military of all the 4 races, as evidenced in this excerpt from the racial description: "Even if the Caldari have not engaged in war for many decades, they still strive to be at the cutting edge of military technology and their vessels, weapons and fighting methods are inferior to none but the enigmatic Jovians." Reference: http://www.eve-online.com/races/caldari.asp This description is supported by the fact that when ganged the caldari are indeed fearsome. To those who complain that missiles have poor dps and Caldari suck at solo pvp - next time you are primaried by 3 drakes and have 21 missiles on their way to you within seconds, you might want to rethink those statements
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.25 17:14:00 - [43] Edited by: NIkis on 25/05/2007 17:20:07 Falcon should have at least 15%/lvl ECM strength bonus.. putting it at 10% is crap. If you gonna do the blinking trick you need speed so instead of a third utterly nerfed (to half usefulness) SDA, an overdrive would be a much better option IMO (or a lowslot targeting booster, or basically anything else except weapon upgrade modules). Not to mention it has utter crap DPS compared to all other recons. To prove the pointless addition of a third sda : rook (with a bit of low skills) + +1 hypnos SDA +2 PDA (rig with 10% bonus to jam strength) -> 6.5516 on racial jammer +2 hypnos SDA +2 PDA -> 7.2757 on racial jammer Dare checking the difference between a falcon with 2 SDA + 2 PDA versus 3 SDA + 2 PDA ? I'm sure it would be pitiful (something like 0.1 strength or less).
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.25 17:39:00 - [44] Edited by: NIkis on 25/05/2007 17:39:34 Well I checked it myself falcon + 2 hypnos SDA + 2 PDA -> 6.67 falcon + 3 hypnos SDA + 2 PDA -> 7.10 And I still think the overdrive is worth it Originally by: Milton Keynes Originally by: Rylet VanDorn In the present, the Caldari possess the most technologically advanced military of all the 4 races, as evidenced in this excerpt from the racial description: "Even if the Caldari have not engaged in war for many decades, they still strive to be at the cutting edge of military technology and their vessels, weapons and fighting methods are inferior to none but the enigmatic Jovians." Reference: http://www.eve-online.com/races/caldari.asp This description is supported by the fact that when ganged the Caldari are indeed fearsome. To those who complain that missiles have poor dps and Caldari suck at solo pvp - next time you are primaried by 3 drakes and have 21 missiles on their way to you within seconds, you might want to rethink those statements I don't get your point man .. you should pit 3 brutix vs 3 drake if you want to make a fair comparison. But it sure as hell wouldn't be a fair fight either.
R3s1d3nt 3v1L Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.25 18:35:00 - [45] The reason why the Falcon is so gimped now and that ECCM is so strong is that a while back, ECM was much stronger than it is today. Any ship without ECM bonuses could use racial jammers at about strength 8, and multispectral jammers at around 5 or 6. CCP first tried to fix this by boosting ECCM (all ECCM sensor strength increased by 50-100% I think). When people still complained, CCP then cut down the base strength of each ECM module, introduced signal distortion amplifiers, and increased the bonus of every ECM-specialized ship. The problem now is that after ECM-specialized ships fit every low slot with distortion amplifiers and every midslot with jammers, their jam strengths are still somewhat lower than they would have been before the patch. Falcons fit with multispectral and racial jammers before the patch would have had jam strengths of about 8 and 12 respectively. The 5% bonus was more than adequate then. Now the jam strengths are down to about 6.7 and 10, despite the 10% bonus. This ~20% loss in jam strength, combined with the loss of the use of lowslots and the vast improvement of ECCM, make the Falcon much less viable in combat than before. At least ECM modules are now much cheaper than before...
Rylet VanDorn Pastafarians Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:22:00 - [46] Originally by: R3s1d3nt 3v1L The reason why the Falcon is so gimped now and that ECCM is so strong is that a while back, ECM was much stronger than it is today. Any ship without ECM bonuses could use racial jammers at about strength 8, and multispectral jammers at around 5 or 6. CCP first tried to fix this by boosting ECCM (all ECCM sensor strength increased by 50-100% I think). When people still complained, CCP then cut down the base strength of each ECM module, introduced signal distortion amplifiers, and increased the bonus of every ECM-specialized ship. The problem now is that after ECM-specialized ships fit every low slot with distortion amplifiers and every midslot with jammers, their jam strengths are still somewhat lower than they would have been before the patch. Falcons fit with multispectral and racial jammers before the patch would have had jam strengths of about 8 and 12 respectively. The 5% bonus was more than adequate then. Now the jam strengths are down to about 6.7 and 10, despite the 10% bonus. This ~20% loss in jam strength, combined with the loss of the use of lowslots and the vast improvement of ECCM, make the Falcon much less viable in combat than before. At least ECM modules are now much cheaper than before... Even back when ECM was overpowered... it still doesn't make sense to have this bonus different between the rook and the falcon. None of the other force recons have their recon ship bonus lowered vs their combat recon counterparts. As for ECM modules being cheap... lol well, I hear enemy ammo is cheap too. It even comes with free delivery! To the person asking for the cruiser bonuses, here they are (I'll just list by race, since these don't change between combat and force recons): Amarr Cruiser: 5% Tracking Disruptor Effect/10% Drone HP/Damage Gallente Cruiser: 5% Med Hybrid Damage/5% Sensor Damp Effect Minmatar Cruiser: 5% Med Projectile ROF/7.5% Target Painter effect Caldari Cruiser: 10% less cap use for ECM/20% ECM optimal range While it is my opinion that the Rook/Falcon bonuses are incongruent with the others (no damage bonus at all), it truly cements the Caldari Recon as a ship that is 100% useless in combat while solo. This is perfectly fine, since it fits the "theme" of the Caldari: Less effective solo, more effective grouped.
AbdullahAhmed	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:50:00 - [47] I`ll speak from the point of view of a rook pilot with recon level 4 and signal dispersion level 4. The rook really isn't much in solo. To be effective in solo you need to dedicate three mid slots to MWD/AB, Scram and web, leaving you with 4 slots for ECM usage. 4 multispecs in there give you a good chance at jamming the enemy but even one missed cycle leaves you very vulnerable to enemy drones which will chew you up in an instant if allowed to lock on you (since you dont really have a tank at all). If you use faction / officer ECM's (who the heck has that kind of money to waste on a 60mil ship) then you may get away with three multispecs when taking on solo targets and therefore be able to fit one large shield extender II to get a slightly stronger tank. Where the rook REALLY shines though , is in gang combat. Dont bother with the DPS, focus on the jamming. In gangs the rook can fit 6 multispecs and one large t2 shield extender giving it moderate survivability and very good ECM capability. In that case you can comfortably sit at 40+km and jam your enemy (2-3). The falcon has pathetic dps, but its role really isn't the DPS. I would love to have a falcon pilot in my gang who can warp around cloaked, find targets for us and then have us warp onto the target while he jams it to infinity. Its ECM bonus is weaker (i agree, they should give it at least 15% more bonus) but It can also place 3 distortion amps in bottom which gives it a slight boost compared to rooks 2 amps. It can also place a 1600mm plate in the lows and not need to sacrifice its mid slot which can now be used for 7 multispecs instead of six (each multispec helps..take it from a rook pilot who's seem just too many close calls). Now for ecm modules... Use hypnos or compulsive named variety..don't go for the T2 kind as they use too much capacitor and the hypnos is just as good as the t2 while using less cap. And don't forget the rigs..they are relatively cheap to buy now and even cheaper to build. I have a big beef with CCP for nerfing ECM though, because as noted by everyone, a single ECCM module (useable on ANY KIND OF SHIP) can pretty much negate all the awesomeness of our recons.....sensor boosters also give trouble ot lachesis and arazu, but it seems the minmatar and ammar recons arnt 'nerfed' by any such module. I think there needs to be a serious discussion on this and CCP needs to do something about it. If you nerf the caldari ability, please nerf other race abilities too to balance it out, don't just leave one of us hanging behind because too many people whine.
Cletus Graeme Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.05.25 21:34:00 - [48] Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 25/05/2007 21:38:53 Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 25/05/2007 21:35:10 Originally by: NIkis I don't get your point man .. you should pit 3 brutix vs 3 drake if you want to make a fair comparison. But it sure as hell wouldn't be a fair fight either. Ooops did I say brutix ? I meant myrm with its better passive shield tank The 3 drake example was purely for illustration purposes. A gang made up solely of 3 caldari ships of the same type is actually pretty silly as it doesn't utilise the fact that their ships are super-specialised to perform a single role very well. That's why they suck at solo pvp where you have to tackle, do damage and tank all by yourself. Take those 3 drakes, add some ewar (rook/bb!), some tacklers (crows!) and some additional firepower (cara/cerb) and you have a formidable gang indeed. Caldari shield tanks can withstand a lot of damage over a short period and their missiles can do variable damage over a wide range regardless of transversal. These are both good for gang warfare but less useful/important when solo. In short, if you're a team player they have a lot to offer. Just don't undock without a buddy, or two EDIT: And as a follow to the excellent post from the rook pilot above, I have flown a BB for almost a year now and am finally also in a rook and I agree with him completely. ECM got nerfed, not fixed. It needs relooking at - specifically, the Falcon and ECCM badly need changes, as has already been stated in previous posts.
T'ni Iommi	Posted - 2007.05.25 21:36:00 - [49] http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:47:00 - [50] Originally by: Morreia Originally by: Arushia Originally by: Morreia Originally by: Christopher Dalran Gallente pilot here Exchange the 40% vamp/neut range bonus with a bonus to projectile ROF and we'll talk. D WTF does that have to do with the falcon? It has everything to do with the Lachesis and how it needs love moreso than the Falcon. But why is he talking about an amarr ship and saying it should be given a minmatar bonus? Because it makes exactly as much sense as giving the Lachesis a Caldari bonus. Nova Labs and Empire Research
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:41:00 - [51] Edited by: Ogul on 26/05/2007 07:39:57 Originally by: Arushia Because it makes exactly as much sense as giving the Lachesis a Caldari bonus. If you look at it that way, the Curse already has a Gallente bonus.
Mudkest MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:18:00 - [52] Originally by: Rylet VanDorn Not to mention the 40% vamp/neut is an Amarr bonus, and projectiles are intended to be Minmatar weaps (despite Amarr fitting autos instead) that's beause amar lazors are gimed and theye recognize superior minmatar technology :D
Veryez	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:11:00 - [53] Originally by: AbdullahAhmed I have a big beef with CCP for nerfing ECM though, because as noted by everyone, a single ECCM module (useable on ANY KIND OF SHIP) can pretty much negate all the awesomeness of our recons.....sensor boosters also give trouble ot lachesis and arazu, but it seems the minmatar and ammar recons arnt 'nerfed' by any such module. Considering that the best setups for the Huginn and the Rapier don't even bother fitting a target painter, I would say that having a target painting bonus on a ship is nerf enough...
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:50:00 - [54] guys, dont expect any buff to caldari, the fourum warriors are sure to prevent it. Yes, ECM ships need a minor buff, will it happen.. no? Its kinda sad that an ecm ship must use al its low and medium slots to become effective, while the gallente recons can fit just 2 sensordampeners and damp any target to ****. DOn't forget that eccm COMPLETELY renders ecm useless while a sensorbooster wont help you much against dampening........ My advice if you want recons is to train ammarr or gallente period.
Rylet VanDorn Pastafarians Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:49:00 - [55] Originally by: Fluffernator guys, dont expect any buff to caldari, the fourum warriors are sure to prevent it. Yes, ECM ships need a minor buff, will it happen.. no? Its kinda sad that an ecm ship must use al its low and medium slots to become effective, while the gallente recons can fit just 2 sensordampeners and damp any target to ****. DOn't forget that eccm COMPLETELY renders ecm useless while a sensorbooster wont help you much against dampening........ My advice if you want recons is to train ammarr or gallente period. Eh, even this being the case... Even given the gimped bonus, the low dps, etc... I'll probably still go with the falcon, primarily because A) I already have Caldari Crusier 50% of the way to rank 5 (switched to carrier training before it completed) B) I have a friend who will be flying a curse. Me in a falcon, I find the target, give him a warp-in spot as well as ECM support... he gets there and takes care of business. This will be for invading enemy territory.
velmistr Ecco Caldari InNova Tech Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 19:59:00 - [56] Falcon is good as it is. The only thing I don't understand is that falcon costs more than rook (73M vs 59M) and about 2 month ago falcon's price was 40M and rook's around 50-60M. Every falcon pilot would like to see his ship to get some bonuses however it is not a good reason to do so
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:05:00 - [57] The falcon was ok before the hard hit ECM nerf..... they didnt readjust its bonus, I'm ok with the falcon's nerf, I'd just like to see gallente get a similar nerf to sensor dampeners. They only require 2-3 mods to be effective while a caldari ecm boat sacrafices all mid and high slots essentially. Behold the BOD Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots Quote: [ 2007.03.20
Rylet VanDorn Pastafarians Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.05.29 06:26:00 - [58] Originally by: velmistr Ecco Falcon is good as it is. The only thing I don't understand is that falcon costs more than rook (73M vs 59M) and about 2 month ago falcon's price was 40M and rook's around 50-60M. Every falcon pilot would like to see his ship to get some bonuses however it is not a good reason to do so Probably just supply vs demand. Demand has gone down, but so has supply. All the T2 cruiser manufacturers figure it's not worth building falcons/rooks because they suck. As for it not being sufficient reason to change the ship... I'd say the things discussed in this thread are more than just "we want the ship boosted", and more "why is this so drastically different from all other recons?"
Rania Serlia World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.05.29 06:31:00 - [59] Edited by: Rania Serlia on 29/05/2007 06:30:02 As a side note, a Falcon pilot with recon 4 will get better jam strength in a blackbird than an actual Falcon due to the strength bonus being a recon ships skill bonus.
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.29 06:45:00 - [60] Some of my friends will disagree on the uselessness of the falcon.

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