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Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:59:00 - [1] Edited by: Xeliya on 25/05/2007 20:00:42 Anyone who knows anything about Capitals, knows Caldari is very handicapped when it comes to fitting. This screen shot will give you a good idea why and it will also show you how tight a fit the Chimera is with the lowest CPU mods are with max skills. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0705/cap-stuff.jpg You will see the Capital shield mods require 4x more CPU where armor mods have 2x PG on average. Now you will see a normal Armour tanking carrier the Thanatos has 2x more PG but the Chimera only has a slight boost in CPU. There are 2 options here; Option 1) Reduce the Capital Shield Mods CPU by 50%. Option 2) Greatly increase the CPU on all Caldari Caps. (20% atleast) Just a further note the Phoenix, Wyvern and Leviathan even need to fit CPU mods to fit with freedom or fit in a similar fashion as the Chimera in the SS with very low CPU mods. Not one other race has issues like this. Hell they can even fit high CPU/PG Officer mods with freedom. Please give Caldari caps some love!
Trass	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:27:00 - [2] Edited by: Trass on 25/05/2007 20:30:03 Edited by: Trass on 25/05/2007 20:28:25 Originally by: Xeliya There are 2 options here; Option 1) Reduce the Capital Shield Mods CPU by 50%. Option 2) Greatly increase the CPU on all Caldari Caps. (20% atleast) Option 3) Drop that 3 Power Diagnostic System, and put Co-Procesor's on one of 4 low slots (you have med slot tank). BTW Chimera have one slot more for tank (than thanatos for example), and you have great resists bonus to tank. And you want more? Nothing for free mate.
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:40:00 - [3] Edited by: Xeliya on 25/05/2007 20:44:19 Originally by: Trass Edited by: Trass on 25/05/2007 20:28:25 Option 3) Put Co-Procesor on one of 4 low slots (you have med slot tank). BTW Chimera have one slot more for tank (than thanatos for example), and you have great resists bonus to tank. And you want more? How do we get another spot? Dual sensor booster is a must or you are useless (not to mention you don't have the CPU). Thus we are down to 5 spots and if we want to fit a scram down to 4 spots (oh wait we can't as we don't have the CPU). Thanatos does not need to use his mids to fit any upgrades they go towards sensor boosters, cap recharger's (massively important) and a sram so it can actually hold something form warping. Fitting a Co-Proc nukes my tank just as much as removing a hardener as I have less cap/cap recharge/shield/shield recharge or less resistances. Next tanking bonus cannot be brought into this as the Thanatos gets a Damage bonus. And I am only using the Thantos as an example. On a further note I am not talking about tanks I am talking about fitting properly. I don't see an Archon having to fit a PG upgrade or needing to go 100% low PG faction mods that give the same bonus as T2 but cost 100x more.
Trass	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:59:00 - [4] Edited by: Trass on 25/05/2007 21:02:24 If u want to have on board dual sensor booster, web, scrambl, why u choose caldari capitals? Answer is on your screenshots. U want med slots for toys? Then you need armor tanked carrier (Achron or Thanatos). Sorry mate, caldari isn't a drone race (np fighter dmg bonus), and armor tanked race (shield tank).
Haffrage Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:57:00 - [5] You hear the man! You need to be flying the Correct CarrierÖ ----- Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers
Neuromandis Novastorm Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:19:00 - [6] Edited by: Neuromandis on 26/05/2007 00:18:31 Originally by: Trass Edited by: Trass on 25/05/2007 21:02:24 If u want to have on board dual sensor booster, web, scrambl, why u choose caldari capitals? Answer is on your screenshots. U want med slots for toys? Then you need armor tanked carrier (Achron or Thanatos). Sorry mate, caldari isn't a drone race (np fighter dmg bonus), and armor tanked race (shield tank). I have no clue about capital particulars. Not one. Not even a show info. I only know what they are supposed to do in combat. That said, if YOU have a clue about them and what you say is correct, I am convinced the OP is correct as well. Because, if a carrier is not about fighters, what the bloody, bloody hell is it about???
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:54:00 - [7] Originally by: Trass Edited by: Trass on 25/05/2007 21:02:24 If u want to have on board dual sensor booster, web, scrambl, why u choose caldari capitals? Answer is on your screenshots. U want med slots for toys? Then you need armor tanked carrier (Achron or Thanatos). Sorry mate, caldari isn't a drone race (np fighter dmg bonus), and armor tanked race (shield tank). And this means they shouldn't be able to fit there ships? Right enough that makes sense. Not meaning to cause offence or anything, but you've shown you don't at all comprehend the issue here. When you look at fitting the other Carriers, then look at the Chimera you realize that there is a big problem. I agree with the OP. Just hope sombody at CCP agrees too. -----
Reatu Krentor Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:31:00 - [8] Edited by: Reatu Krentor on 26/05/2007 01:30:17 It's not just the Chimera that has issues with the cpu requirements of capital shield boosters, Nidhoggur has issues too. I know you're thinking that it armor tanks but that's not entirely correct, it can tank both ways(and I've found the shield tank to be slightly better then similar armor tank). The nid is easier to fit with armor tank however only because the cpu need of the capital shield booster appears to be imbalanced. So I vote option 1, reduce the cpu requirement of capital shield modules. Please give Nidhoggur some love (too)! Crystal-Slave, that way?
Icome4u Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:01:00 - [9] Boost Chimera CPU... cant properly fit it EVEN with max skills... wtf Kill its pg... we have to much of it anyway... ______ Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Reatu Krentor Edited by: Reatu Krentor on 26/05/2007 01:30:17 It's not just the Chimera that has issues with the cpu requirements of capital shield boosters, Nidhoggur has issues too. I know you're thinking that it armor tanks but that's not entirely correct, it can tank both ways(and I've found the shield tank to be slightly better then similar armor tank). The nid is easier to fit with armor tank however only because the cpu need of the capital shield booster appears to be imbalanced. So I vote option 1, reduce the cpu requirement of capital shield modules. Please give Nidhoggur some love (too)! QFT I think option one is the only way to fix it TBH. Also niddy should get a cap reduction bonus for remote reps as that would make it one hell of a fleet ship. But that is for another thread

Tony Unrau Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:56:00 - [11] Simply put, Couldn't Agree More.
Auron Shadowbane	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:53:00 - [12] flying gally caps and looking at capital's slots I think NO capital should have fitting issues with PG and CPU in any form. so whatz the heck give every carrier 1500 cpu or what so they are happy. as long as you cant touch the 10 000cpu mark that makes things like covops & strip miners *****ble its cool
Niah Kent Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:59:00 - [13] Couldn't agree more. Caldari needs some love indeed.
Kramer Verone Amarr TeamMX	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:59:00 - [14] Edited by: Kramer Verone on 27/05/2007 02:03:29 Edited by: Kramer Verone on 27/05/2007 01:59:43 Originally by: Xeliya How do we get another spot? Dual sensor booster is a must or you are useless (not to mention you don't have the CPU). Thus we are down to 5 spots and if we want to fit a scram down to 4 spots (oh wait we can't as we don't have the CPU). that's the whole problem, you're using your capitals as a capital gank blob. Support is nearby, but never needed. No, I say you should be using support to remote sensor boost capital ships, and support should be the ones warp scrambling. The capital ships aren't broken, you are not using them as intended. MC have a reputation for having the best logistics, nerfing the capital blob will ensure no one else can out blob you. Your skills would make you the most formidable alliance, even more formidable than an alliance with larger pockets and cap ship pilots. CCP, end the CAPITAL BLOB and the SOLO I-WIN BUTTONS. Make it so that capital ships become useless without support enhancing their attributes.
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:15:00 - [15] Edited by: Xeliya on 27/05/2007 02:21:16 Originally by: Kramer Verone that's the whole problem, you're using your capitals as a capital gank blob. Support is nearby, but never needed. No, I say you should be using support to remote sensor boost capital ships, and support should be the ones warp scrambling. The capital ships aren't broken, you are not using them as intended. MC have a reputation for having the best logistics, nerfing the capital blob will ensure no one else can out blob you. Your skills would make you the most formidable alliance, even more formidable than an alliance with larger pockets and cap ship pilots. CCP, end the CAPITAL BLOB and the SOLO I-WIN BUTTONS. Make it so that capital ships become useless without support enhancing their attributes. You don't see the whole point of this post as it is not just about the Chimera or balances or about tanking, it's about Caldari fitting issue that no other race has or should have on capitals. Also as mentioned I can't fit anything in those 2 slots anyways without a CPU upgrade, thus nerfing my tank to boost my tank. Just a reminder of what this thread is for is to fix Caldari caps so they can be fitted like the rest of the capitals. aka not spending 2 days trying to think of the best fitting so you don't need to waste a spot on a CPU, having the ability to change setups with easy and not have to spend an arm and a leg on mods that are the same as T2 just alot less CPU. Why should I spend billions of isk and months of training when all of our capitals are Gimped because CCP overlooked the CPU issues. Since you changed your post up; if you have an issue with capital blobs come up with a solution and post it in it's own thread by all means but please don't hijack my thread which is not about that.
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:24:00 - [16] Originally by: Kramer Verone Edited by: Kramer Verone on 27/05/2007 02:06:27 Originally by: Xeliya --- that's the whole problem, you're using your capitals as a capital gank blob. Support is nearby, but never needed. No, I say you should be using support to remote sensor boost capital ships, and support should be the ones warp scrambling. The capital ships aren't broken, you are not using them as intended. MC have a reputation for having the best logistics, nerfing the capital blob will ensure no one else can out blob you. Your skills would make you the most formidable alliance, even more formidable than an alliance with larger pockets and cap ship pilots. CCP, end the CAPITAL BLOB and the SOLO I-WIN BUTTONS. Make it so that capital ships become useless without support enhancing their attributes. Nerf the rest of the capitals to be in line with the caldari ones This is the only way to close the gap between high skill point pilots and newcomers who are forced to BUY ISK to buy an older character. You overlook the fact that even if you don't attempt to fit Sensor Boosters and Warp Scramblers, you still cannot fill all your slots without 1-2 Co-Processors. There is no denying there is an issue here, let me explain simply: Chimera CPU with Electronics 5: 968.75 TF 2x Capital Shield Transporters: 350 CPU 3x Drone Control Units: 225 CPU 1x Capital Shield Booster: 300 CPU Grand total: 875 CPU / 968.75 CPU - 93.75 CPU to fit 6 Mids and 4 Lows. A single T2 Hardener alone takes up 44 CPU. Still think theres no problem here? -----
Kramer Verone Amarr TeamMX	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:36:00 - [17] Edited by: Kramer Verone on 27/05/2007 02:36:59 I don't agree at all. You're trying to do everything with your carrier instead of specializing in one or two tasks. It's either shield transporting and providing a swarm of fighters, but not also tanking. Like i said, the Caldari caps were done right, the others need to be nerfed. Nerfing is never pleasant, and you will resist, but right now, blob warfare in the capital age is still rewarded over superior logistical management.
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Kramer Verone Edited by: Kramer Verone on 27/05/2007 02:36:59 I don't agree at all. You're trying to do everything with your carrier instead of specializing in one or two tasks. It's either shield transporting and providing a swarm of fighters, but not also tanking. Like i said, the Caldari caps were done right, the others need to be nerfed. Nerfing is never pleasant, and you will resist, but right now, blob warfare in the capital age is still rewarded over superior logistical management. If what you say is the truth then just about every ship in the game needs a 'nerf'. Starting with the Raven. -----
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:49:00 - [19] Edited by: Xeliya on 27/05/2007 02:52:41 Originally by: Kramer Verone I don't agree at all. You're trying to do everything with your carrier instead of specializing in one or two tasks. It's either shield transporting and providing a swarm of fighters, but not also tanking. If I were to "specialize" (devote all my slots to 2 things) I can't tank and put 5 Drone Control Unit's on. (not enough CPU) I can't tank and put 5 remote reps on (God that would drain my cap fast). (not enough CPU or cap) Remind me how I am to specialize and why would I? Why would people spend a good year of training pointless skills (most don't help you till you can fly a cap ship), billions of ISK for a ship and books that would be the same as a damage dealing BS or Logistic ship just to have extra HP and you cannot go though stargates. Unless you have flown a cap or been to a cap fight which by the age of your character says you haven't how can you know how "easy" capitals are. To be used effectively you need very good logistics (fuel, cynos, replacing fighters), a lot of ISK (skill books, mods, fighters, fuel, etc) and knowing every time you bring it out you stand to lose a good 2-3b if the enemy is prepared. It's not like going out and getting a Vaga (worth like 200m fitted) and hunting for people to gank and warping to a SS if it gets to hot and flying straight up with a MWD on. Also you are still forgetting I am also talking about Dreads and other Cap Ships. So a Dread should only Tank or Shoot stuff?
Kramer Verone Amarr TeamMX	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:03:00 - [20] Edited by: Kramer Verone on 27/05/2007 03:09:23 Edited by: Kramer Verone on 27/05/2007 03:08:03 I can certainly appreciate your stance, and to answer your two questions. Remind me how I am to specialize As I said, that would require a re-balancing of capital ships. This is a game in development if you didn't know, training for anything is a risk, plenty of people have had their favorite ships nerfed and their training wasted, but as combat now makes it mandatory to have capital ships, I dont't for a second that nerfing capital ships would render them useless. and why would I? My opinion on caldari carrier boosting wasn't a suggestion for you to consider. It's an idea I threw out there, if a dev takes interest, then you're stance really doesn't matter. Look at the game and where's pos warfare is heading. CCP went the wrong way with the current system and the next system promises to be a capital blob system where all other ships are limited to the most boring part of eve, pos warfare. Even a goon will be able to manage to take down pos defenses in this new system. Warfare isn't challenging enough. I hope I don't come off as too arrogant, my intentions are to discuss the issue, not sidestep it or ignore you. From my point of view, you stand to gain considerably in the long run.

Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:15:00 - [21] Edited by: Chronus26 on 27/05/2007 03:14:17 Just to veer off-popic for a sec, i'm not sure where this 'Capitals are mandatory for PVP' is coming from. Granted I am a Capital pilot, but I don't fly my Carrier all the time, and still manage to find plenty of fights that don't involve Capitals at all. I try only to use my Carrier when I feel it is neccisary, maybe elsewhere things are different. -----
Kramer Verone Amarr TeamMX	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Chronus26 maybe elsewhere things are different. they are. of course other ships will still be used, but they can't be used to conquer territory from a large alliance like we used to be able to do with battleships alone.
Terradoct Gallente shock-WAVE corp. Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:23:00 - [23] I think guys we should just ignor him. On the topic, I sing this. All shield trasportes not only capital need to be cut on cpu fitting req. Chimera can't use 2 cap trasportes even if put same tank in med slot. This is not an issue for Archon or Thanatos.
Kramer Verone Amarr TeamMX	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:39:00 - [24] Originally by: Terradoct I think guys we should just ignor him. On the topic, I sing this. All shield trasportes not only capital need to be cut on cpu fitting req. Chimera can't use 2 cap trasportes even if put same tank in med slot. This is not an issue for Archon or Thanatos. that's why the archon and thanatos need to be nerfed in my opinion
Axhind Caldari Ex Coelis	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:13:00 - [25] O great. Figures I found about CPU issue now. Oh well time to switch to a capital ship that can actually be used on the front. Is it me or does CCP really think that Caldari should not be used for PvP (with few exceptions)? CPU is always a problem, no tackling or ewar if you want any kind of tank...
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:43:00 - [26] Capital shield modules needs to be cut in the amount of CPU they require... Also please boost fighters (they REALLY need some loving). Fix Drone AI bugs (that also affects some other drones). 2 biggest problem is them not MWD back to the carrier/MS AND them not shooting when ordered to shoot. TY ______ Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
Arcadia1701 Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:52:00 - [27] I to have serious fitting issues on the phoenix and chimera, yet my 2nd account has no problem fitting nearly any kind of setup i want on the moro / thantos. The capital shild boosters uses way to much cpu and needs reduceing. My sig> Post with your main, or don't post at all.
N0ob21	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:49:00 - [28] Urf, hopefully i dont make a complete noob of myself as i dont have any real experience with capital ships...but i like/want to express my thoughts on it and maybe a viable solution/setup for you. For fun and like. Capacitor power relays, if i remember correct the Shield boost penalty doesn't affect the Shield transporters(right?). Can't check with my main right now, but thats what i recall. So, instead of shield boosting it, you rely more on Shield transporters from your gang members and instead use those slots for upping the shield resistance. I guess its a bit of a risk taking especially if you get primary and when there is also lag involved. The reaction time will suffer and it might become the big bottleneck of it all and the destruction of the ship and the endurance. But you will have more shield transporters to put on those in need and help out. Anyway, how about this: High: 2/3xCapital Shield Transporters(not sure if 3 fits, probably not/maybe), 2x of those Drone Control Units(CPU use?) that you have. Mid: Act. EM/T/K hardners and 2 Invu or more DG Invu,s :S , 2x Sensor Booster II,s/F-90(8 instead of 10). Low: DC, 3 CPR,s. Not sure if that all fits and all, being lazy and busy. But sht, comparing to the smaller/minor versions of the mods, the Capital Shield booster gives almost 3x of the cap you inject compared to the minor ones(T2) that gives almost 2x.But the shield transporters ain't even near that. Unless they put T2 versions of it in and it reflects about the same stats as the Small/M/Large one. Funky sht, minmatar getting shield transport bonus when caldari got their support ship and got those x/2 slot layout ships where *ST fits well in and make a viable/functional setup. Funky indeed. Thats my take on it. I hope i dont get BBQ'd viciously // No21
Will Stronghold	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:50:00 - [29] I am currently training for Caldari cap ships. I have played eve for half a year and don't really know if i'm knowledgeable enough to comment this. Well here goes. I totally agree that the CPU requirements for shield mods put the Caldari carriers at a disadvantage so it would be nice if that was adjusted. The CPU requirements reduction or giving some extra cpu for caldari cap ships as trade off for the PG might be the easiest way to fix this. Another way might be to introduce another cap ship skill that reduces cap shield mods cpu need like 10% per level or so. Or could add a ship bonus to caldari cap ships that reduces the shield mods cpu usage by a percentage per caldari carrier skill level. Some of those suggestions might influence the game balance so might not be the best ideas but as I see there are plenty of ways to fix this without influencing the the games balance. If the problem also is with Minmatar cap ships, then the same adjustments could be applied there. I do hope CCP will look at this and find a good solution.
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:35:00 - [30] CCP needs to: #1 Reduce CPU need from Capital Shield modules #1 Fix Support Carrier Cap (Triage Module = Death in 2-3 mins) #1 Fix Fighters/Drones Will they do it? Yeah... in 1-2 years ______ Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?



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