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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:13:00 -
[2581]
Any new posts from ark? I can't scan 100 pages...
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ssorion
Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:13:00 -
[2582]
Originally by: OozoO that screen wasnt altered, I guess he's still ig but you cant find him via p&p
Well, i hope CCP IA shed some light on that matter, cause if he is actual CCP employee, and is DBA as he claimed in his bio, it makes titan comments and ISD reporter IRC logs very fishy coincidence. Technically that would assume that DBA (or better to say guy-with-direct-unlimited-and-almost-untrackable-database-access) is affiliated with group of players and sometimes do them some favors even when matters are not within his authority (IRC log), surely if he is CCP DBA, and he was involved in firing that ISD guy, which is yet to be confirmed/denied by CCP.
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Elmo Noguchi
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:14:00 -
[2583]
Originally by: Namingway Any new posts from ark? I can't scan 100 pages...
All new posts are linked to in the original post.
Short answer: not really anything worthwhile.
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Jovius Marginus
Black Avatar Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:18:00 -
[2584]
Originally by: OozoO
Originally by: Tomas Ysidro What a thread...
qft
qft
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Oohwha Schipperman
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:19:00 -
[2585]
Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are.
That's a pretty transparent misreading of Stahlgren's post.
As for "discrediting" BoB and CCP -- they would have to have some shred of credibility left in order to discredit them. The t20 incident pretty much took that off the table.
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Alice Cholmondeley
Christine.
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:19:00 -
[2586]
Originally by: Elmo Noguchi
Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley
Originally by: Stahlregen
Originally by: Dominique Parr
Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:28:49
Originally by: OverKill
words
You'll have to help me out here, I'm not quite seeing why the fact that a game does not have an endgame makes cheating and developer misconduct something not worth caring about.
You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. And before you go saying "They did it in the past." (A lame arguement if you ask me.) Since when does one person's guilt encompass an entire group?
I'm pretty sure since bob tried to grief goonswarm out of the game for having a signature on their own private forums that we now get to do that to them.
So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are.
You're saying that Goons targetting CCP for things that don't relate to BoB at all is somehow...an attack to get back at BoB? You're not helping your case much here.
No i'm not, Stahlregen is. I'm agreefng with him, and it's pretty obvious he's right. It's just a way for the goons to get back at BoB. All for the lulz huh. |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:20:00 -
[2587]
100 pages, my god. It's unfortunate this whole thing has blown up to this proportion, but I trust the matter will be investigated thoroughly, and the community will be kept in the loop on the facts surrounding the matter.
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Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:21:00 -
[2588]
Edited by: Xeliya on 27/05/2007 07:20:09
Originally by: Tomas Ysidro What a thread...
What thread
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Alice Cholmondeley
Christine.
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:21:00 -
[2589]
Originally by: Oohwha Schipperman
Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are.
That's a pretty transparent misreading of Stahlgren's post.
As for "discrediting" BoB and CCP -- they would have to have some shred of credibility left in order to discredit them. The t20 incident pretty much took that off the table.
Nothing has been misread. You know it looks bad for goons, trying to save your allies looks desperate. |
raven415
Caldari Special Projects Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:23:00 -
[2590]
Originally by: Tomas Ysidro What a thread...
thats not what id call it.
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Elmo Noguchi
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:23:00 -
[2591]
Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley
Originally by: Elmo Noguchi
Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley
Originally by: Stahlregen
Originally by: Dominique Parr
Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:28:49
Originally by: OverKill
words
You'll have to help me out here, I'm not quite seeing why the fact that a game does not have an endgame makes cheating and developer misconduct something not worth caring about.
You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. And before you go saying "They did it in the past." (A lame arguement if you ask me.) Since when does one person's guilt encompass an entire group?
I'm pretty sure since bob tried to grief goonswarm out of the game for having a signature on their own private forums that we now get to do that to them.
So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are.
You're saying that Goons targetting CCP for things that don't relate to BoB at all is somehow...an attack to get back at BoB? You're not helping your case much here.
No i'm not, Stahlregen is. I'm agreefng with him, and it's pretty obvious he's right. It's just a way for the goons to get back at BoB. All for the lulz huh.
READ WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!!! You seem to be acknowledging that attacking CCP is the SAME as attacking BoB, which is what goonies and friends have been insinuating all along!
Is this what you actually mean to say??!
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Jovius Marginus
Black Avatar Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:24:00 -
[2592]
Originally by: Winterblink 100 pages, my god. It's unfortunate this whole thing has blown up to this proportion, but I trust the matter will be investigated thoroughly, and the community will be kept in the loop on the facts surrounding the matter.
If we hit 300 people can yell "THIS IS EVE-O!!!!!" and talk of the 300 mains who fought the great armies of alt.
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Dominique Parr
Taggart Transdimensional
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:24:00 -
[2593]
I think some people took this too seriously.
Quote: Rule #5: Believe in conspiracies. The Truth is out there!
This rule was the best.
Good night everyone. I hope this matter can be discussed with much needed civility. I think enough stones have been thrown, maybe it's time to try a new tactic?
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Incantare
Caldari Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:25:00 -
[2594]
What a train wreck.
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Dasani Waters
Kensei Mercenaries
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:25:00 -
[2595]
Originally by: 1337tong
Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it.
2nd
also i am very interested to see how ccp will resolve this issue. i can understand why sharkbait would probably be in a corp taking the director role for a short period of time and im sure anyone with a ounce of common sense could see that it was more then likely down to them making a petition in the first place and sharkbait was doing his job to fix their issue.
There is a certain element in this game that somehow feels tarnished because of all this public aired laundry, weather it is true or not remains to be confirmed by ccp themselves. as for those who are looking to leave the game all i can say is maybe it is better for eve that you do go, if some of you feel the need to try and distroy what is left of eve to get at BoB. i do hope that this issue is resolved quickly for ccp's sake.
as for those of you who feel that spamming the forums attention seeking is the way to go, i feel that ccp has been rather soft allowing this to continue. 2 strikes down so far, When and IF there is a 3rd strike i hope that ccp deals with this in a more aggressive approach then they have up till now.
I sincerely hope CCP doesn't follow your advice. You are in effect saying that CCP should go so far as to silence customers who are complaining about not getting the service they were promised. Not only is such a course of action wrong, but it would motivate that "particular element of the player base" to lower the reputation of CCP and its products. Definitely not good for business.
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raven415
Caldari Special Projects Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:25:00 -
[2596]
if you dont trust ccp just leave,thoes that do can stay. if you continue to ***** cry moan groan your only proving that your trying to ruin the game for others.
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Valdis Corick
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:26:00 -
[2597]
Edited by: Valdis Corick on 27/05/2007 07:25:36 Edited by: Valdis Corick on 27/05/2007 07:25:14
Originally by: Tholarim I'd say bob is the one of the few with honour
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Seriously, that made me c-rack up. BoB has ALREADY been PROVEN that their members cheated. And now their own members are talking about being buddy buddy with CCP devs and getting special privelages (like instant response to their petitions via MSN) and yet their members STILL CLAIM TO HAVE HONOR?
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
CCP needs to do something fast to put a stop to this "old boys club" they have by allowing such blatant violations of ethical conduct to continue
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Reithan
Caldari Zero Team
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:26:00 -
[2598]
Originally by: Kaoyama Ameko 3000 GET
awaiting an update!
You didn't hear? They're on vacation. They'll be back on Monday...maybe Tuesday.
The beach was calling a LITTLE louder than their 180,000 paying customers.
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Dubh Faol
Widowmaker Innovations
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:27:00 -
[2599]
This is all a load of garbage, I'm sorry.
Look at this- nobody really wants to give CCP a chance to explain something that seems to be highly innocous.
They just want to go off half-cocked like morons. Which is fine, it's a fundamental human right to be a ******.
The very fact of what the Goonies released is telling, in and of itself. Look what isn't mentioned: any harm done to them or the corp involved. You all should know as well as I do that if they thought a single round of ammo was missing it would have been screamed over. None of that is there.
The biggest "ammo" they have in there is a story from a former ISD member who openly contradicts himself in his statement. Either he's lying, or mistaken, but it blows his credibility.
On the former ISD regarding the Arcs, I'll address simply as follows: anyone who's actually played a role playing game in real life (ie D&D, etc) knows that no matter how lax and liberal the GM is, he or she will always end up pushing you in certain directions and making, even if you tried to avoid it, certain things happen in the game to set certain triggers off for the next phase of the game, adventure, etc. To think that in something like EVE, in which so much money is invested, would be any different whatsoever, is naive at best and idiotic at worst.
Regardless that some outcomes are pre-determined, the community at least has a chance to influence things, far more than they did in most MMOs, such as World of Warcraft or Everquest. Even Horizons, which offered large amounts of community influence as far as the genre goes, was far more restrictive and forced along than EVE-Online.
As to members of BoB other players in other corps and alliances having friends up the chain in EVE... did you expect differently? For god's sake! A lot of these guys have played since day 1, since before that and in the beta, even some in the closed. It's natural that when you play a game, especially in early, developing phases, that sometimes people will form friendships between the "ranks" of player and employee. We've also seen that people who play the game sometimes get hired into the corporation at various levels, and we really shouldn't expect that just because person A is now hired, he's doing to delete the rest of the alphabet of friends from his MSN just because they're still 'merely' players. In most cases, no favouritism is shown, and often times these people are harder on their old friends than they are on 'normal' players.
Does corruption happen? Obviously, yes at times it does. It'd happen regardless, however.
Here's the two biggest concerns I have:
#1 That CCP complete their investigation and relay the information generally to the playerbase.
#2 That CCP deal with the disruptive influences, mostly members of Goonswarm, who spammed the crap out of the forums in what appears to be a blatant and orchestrated attempt to cause database crashes and bring down the servers. If this results in 100-3000 bans of accounts over the violation of the EULA/TOS, the law if it was even semi-orchestrated, and generally acceptable internet behaviour, then so be it- let the worst, most immature players be evicted from the game for the good of all.
And have their ISPs notified of the activities which violates their service contracts. ___________________________________ Aut Pacem, Aut Bellum |
Stahlregen
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:28:00 -
[2600]
Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley
Originally by: Oohwha Schipperman
Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are.
That's a pretty transparent misreading of Stahlgren's post.
As for "discrediting" BoB and CCP -- they would have to have some shred of credibility left in order to discredit them. The t20 incident pretty much took that off the table.
Nothing has been misread. You know it looks bad for goons, trying to save your allies looks desperate.
I was trolling by slamming an exaggerated and insane post with another even more exaggerated and insane post, the sarcasm is not really even intended- it's more like seasoning.
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MrJordanIOI
Minmatar The Lantern Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:28:00 -
[2601]
Edited by: MrJordanIOI on 27/05/2007 07:29:31 Ultima Online has seen similar scandals back then.
It is time to act now and do something clever to ensure this situation is resolved, rather than ideologically bled out. Simple damage control wont do it, obviously
BoB - being one the biggest online lobbies I know - simply has no other choice as to defend themselves. GOONs likewise.
So - this thread has run its course it seems - Kudos to CCP that it was allowed to grow to 100 pages.
Also obvious is that the game community has developed a memory and quite a sense of demanding justice. Please bring us such, ensure that this cannot happen again (the cheat part, not the finding out) and then let us move on.
Thanks, IOI
(Edited for spelling)
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Elmo Noguchi
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:34:00 -
[2602]
Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 07:37:08 Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 07:35:30
Originally by: Dubh Faol
The very fact of what the Goonies released is telling, in and of itself. Look what isn't mentioned: any harm done to them or the corp involved. You all should know as well as I do that if they thought a single round of ammo was missing it would have been screamed over. None of that is there.
So corruption is only worth mentioning if it directly effects a group? No skin off my back? What a cowardly way of viewing ethical responsibilities.
Quote:
Regardless that some outcomes are pre-determined, the community at least has a chance to influence things, far more than they did in most MMOs, such as World of Warcraft or Everquest. Even Horizons, which offered large amounts of community influence as far as the genre goes, was far more restrictive and forced along than EVE-Online.
Hey, other things suck so it's okay that RPers were lied to here!
Quote:
As to members of BoB other players in other corps and alliances having friends up the chain in EVE... did you expect differently? For god's sake! A lot of these guys have played since day 1, since before that and in the beta, even some in the closed. It's natural that when you play a game, especially in early, developing phases, that sometimes people will form friendships between the "ranks" of player and employee. We've also seen that people who play the game sometimes get hired into the corporation at various levels, and we really shouldn't expect that just because person A is now hired, he's doing to delete the rest of the alphabet of friends from his MSN just because they're still 'merely' players. In most cases, no favouritism is shown, and often times these people are harder on their old friends than they are on 'normal' players.
Does corruption happen? Obviously, yes at times it does. It'd happen regardless, however.
I really did expect 'differently' (sic). Anywhere else I pay money I don't have to worry about unprofessional relationships like this. PERIOD! It doesn't even matter if favoritism is shown. The appearence of favoritism is unacceptable.
Corruption is inevitable, so shut up? Is that how I'm supposed to interpret that last line?
Quote:
Here's the two biggest concerns I have:
#1 That CCP complete their investigation and relay the information generally to the playerbase.
#2 That CCP deal with the disruptive influences, mostly members of Goonswarm, who spammed the crap out of the forums in what appears to be a blatant and orchestrated attempt to cause database crashes and bring down the servers. If this results in 100-3000 bans of accounts over the violation of the EULA/TOS, the law if it was even semi-orchestrated, and generally acceptable internet behaviour, then so be it- let the worst, most immature players be evicted from the game for the good of all.
And have their ISPs notified of the activities which violates their service contracts.
Why were the forums spammed? Because goon's attempts to use in-game channels and to create ONE well-worded thread were deleted out of hand and ignored. Did the spamming suck? Yes. I want to know what you would have had them do in that situation.
Also, I'd imagine that the servers were taken down of CCP's own voilition to delete all the posts and post this thread in an orderly manner- if they went down forcibly, would they have been back up in less than an hour? Serious question- I don't know much about that stuff.
Actually, I'll be a bit less civil on that last point. Spamming a forum is not a DDOS, and wishing you had something to hold against the whistleblowers doesn't make it one.
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Dubh Faol
Widowmaker Innovations
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:38:00 -
[2603]
No, the very fact that nothing negative to them was done is telling. It means that CCP's story holds water, and they're trying to raise a ruckus to cover their own failings.
That, sir, was my point.
And no, corruption isn't acceptable, and we shouldn't like it, merely to realise that it is inevitable and deal with it when it arises. So far no corruption in this case has been pointed out or proven. Only in past cases, where CCP has acknowledged it and pledged that something would be done about it. ___________________________________ Aut Pacem, Aut Bellum |
MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:39:00 -
[2604]
Originally by: Incantare What a train wreck.
guess the rapetrain derailed :P
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Shinigami
Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:41:00 -
[2605]
Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:48:16
Originally by: Dominique Parr
You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs.
Also all that pesky "evidence" stuff but hey, let's just ignore that for now.
Edit: damnit, so close
How about trust and credibility? Goons are a group of players that come from a community that takes pride in it's ability to destroy other communities. They achieve this through means such as DDOS attacks, forum "raids", hacking websites, and posting false information on other sites. The very same things you are attempting to do to the eve community. --- Dianabolic speaks about BoB's developer relationship. Lag Killer
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Mica Swanhaven
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:42:00 -
[2606]
I'd like to pint out once it became mainstream no goon has even thought of making more needless threads.
seems like proof they were just trying to get it to light.
now that it is we wait.
and if they don't give answers well... nothing is stopping the goons form doiung it again with alts free-tairl alts that get baned and then they will spam again and again and again local will never be useful again if they say the wrong thing. but the point is I'm glad the goons haven't been spaming. I undertand why you did. and I'm glad you did. do I agree with everything? no. but I understand your reasons
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Elmo Noguchi
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:42:00 -
[2607]
Originally by: Dubh Faol No, the very fact that nothing negative to them was done is telling. It means that CCP's story holds water, and they're trying to raise a ruckus to cover their own failings.
That, sir, was my point.
And no, corruption isn't acceptable, and we shouldn't like it, merely to realise that it is inevitable and deal with it when it arises. So far no corruption in this case has been pointed out or proven. Only in past cases, where CCP has acknowledged it and pledged that something would be done about it.
CCP's story holds water because the problems didn't effect the goons??
CCP hasn't even RELEASED a story yet! The one story that addressed 1/3 of the charges was said to be inaccurate by the CEOs of the corporation involved.
Nothing negative was done to the goons, but negative stuff sure was done. I don't see how they COULDN'T report this stuff if they believe it to be true.
I'd also argue that the admissions by BoB members in this thread that they have communication access to developers that other players don't is an example of unprofessional and unacceptable behavior, since you say that nothing has been 'proven.'
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F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:51:00 -
[2608]
Originally by: OverKill
*snip*
Simply put; who cares if they are cheating, who cares if they are not?!?!
*snip*
Are you serious? Are you fraking SERIOUS????
This is one of the most important events in Eve history. Cheating has alway been (at least officially) a bannable oofense. Are you really trying to say that someone, ANYONE, cheating in this game is acceptable?
That just blows my mind.
I really have nothing more to say. I'm speechless.
I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:53:00 -
[2609]
Originally by: OverKill Ok (climbs on the box) time for me to chime in...
...
Simply put; who cares if they are cheating, who cares if they are not?!?! There is no endgame in EVE. You can never "win" like so many people claim. EVE is designed to be an everlasting labor of love for her developers iand for those of us who play in this universe. It is an idea, a dream and a realization of that dream that persists whether you are online or not.
They killed my dreadnaught! So what, buy another one. They have access to T2 BPOs! So what, invent some of your own and don't buy from them. They have 1000 0.0 systems and we only have 550! So what, how much room do you honestly think you need? I saw XYZ talking to GM SuperKalaFragaListic! So what, how does it REALLY affect you?
---
Perhaps some of you need to take a good hard look at exactly what you are playing and what type of game you WANT to play. If you want an endgame then maybe you should be looking elsewhere. If you want to analyze, adapt and overcome then this is the place for you.
The only issue that the players should be concerned with (most of you are, even hidden under 98 pages of somewhat murky waters) is the issue of a player being banned by a GM without a VERY thorough investigation. CCP does need to institute a policy in regards to banning, perhaps a two tier response system. GM 1 opts to ban a player for whatever reason, he needs someone else to execute said ban. (nuke missile keys anyone?!?!). Banning should require a fair bit of thought and investigation before its done!
IF the allegations are true, then someone else has inside info, has insider connections and has a far more fluid set of options than I do to react to changes.
This means the game is fundamentally biased to one set of players over another. This means that my monthly fee has less meaning than theirs.
Presumably, the whole reason to play an online, multiplayer, risk based game is so we can compete with others. However, the presumption IS that I can 'win' at some points. Not because of SP... I'm only 2 years old, with only one account... I'll never equal Dr Caymus or be better than most at PVP. However... I expect the *system* to be fair. I don't expect the result to be; if I choose to compete with those better skilled and experienced than me, well I deserve a beating
BUT, if the system is always rigged to benefit one group over me, I can have NO expectations of fairness at ANY point, because there is always a part of the game totally outside of my control that I can neither control nor predict. All I can do is roll the dice and hope that the gods favor me.
This is not how Eve is/was presented. If poker was 'rigged' to favor a group over another, you would have a different demographic playing it. Probably the Roulette crowd
There is an obvious difference, is there not?
It's not that it's unfair, it's that it's falsely presented.
I.E. I play poker. If someone were to suddenly beat my 4 of a kind with a pair AND WIN THAT HAND, I wouldn't be happy. Indeed, I'd never play with that sod ever again and I would call him a cheater. Why? Poker has rules, even if there is never a final hand you can win and thus win Poker categorically.
Similarly, Eve is supposed to have rules. If those rules don't apply to everyone, why play? It's represented as having a fundamental coherance, so it should live up to that billing. Plain and simple.
There is no reason to *pay* for access to a rigged game, whatever it's called.
Perhaps you could tell me why you are content to do so? I'm serious and I actually am curious. We don't have the same intuitions, and your point about 'imagination' isn't really expressed fully.
For me, it's not about having a better <insert e-peen here>, it's about having the opportunity to try for any goal allowed by the game mechanics.
I guess I play a game to avoid the 'it's not what you do (necessarily!) but whom you know'. God knows RL is full of that crap.
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20.
Hmm, still waiting. |
Hrin
Minmatar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.05.27 07:54:00 -
[2610]
Seems to me Goons are quite a bit more trustworthy than BoB. Goons do everything in game by legit game mechanics. They don't call in devs via MSN nor do they need to blatantly lie about their opposition. BoB have been trying to deflect the issues in this thread left and right by attacking the messengers. This isn't about goonswarm, its about CCP and their cozy relationship with BoB.
Isn't it weird that the goons are the good guys?
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