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Jacques Archambault Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:40:00 - [1] This is the thread for discussing the following news item: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1464&tid=1 Posted by CCP Arkanon Your feedback and comments are welcomed. Whilst many of you feel strongly about this issue, we kindly request that you please keep your replies civil, constructive and on-topic. Flames and attempts at trolling will be removed. Please also do not start additional threads on this topic as they will be locked and referred to this one. Jacques Archambault forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website!

Myk Taison GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:41:00 - [2] I don't like it one bit!
Epyik Caldari DarkStar 1	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:43:00 - [3] You know this kind of stuff wouldn't happen if we could get some responses once and awhile ...
nickky01 The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:43:00 - [4] so like, whats this all about then. I mean, i KNOW what its about, but lets hear CCP's side of the story
Drused eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:44:00 - [5] Well, hopefully the member of Darkstar 1 that made the petition will confirm that there is indeed a real petition. That would head off this whole forum drama bomb before it gets started in earnest. Shouldn't be too hard.
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:44:00 - [6] depending on the outcome this might be the end of eve for me at least
Soren PAK	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:45:00 - [7] makes for a good friday night? ☠-->-->--
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:46:00 - [8] Basic failures in this instance by CCP... - Petition filed about the issue was deleted with no feedback. - Any other attempts to make contact failed. - Forum post regarding the issue was deleted within 30 seconds of being posted with no response, feedback or anything else. The news item failed to address or acknowledge some of the other issues that were raised in the forum posts as well. Oh and this is not some official post on behalf of anyone, it's just my own thought's about the whole debacle.
Gutsani Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:47:00 - [9] Edited by: Gutsani on 25/05/2007 23:50:26 Where are the findings done by internal affairs in the past? .. My point exactly.. Also, let me post some log. [ 2007.05.25 23:21:02 ] GM Zhainius > We will always have a log of the petition in our system still [ 2007.05.25 23:21:16 ] Gutsani > but who maintains the logs .. [ 2007.05.25 23:21:44 ] Gutsani > isnt that, the database admin? cause, thats the guy thats getting blamed for being a bob-alt .. Seriously, its really fancy and stuff having a IA-department, but as long as i dont know who does what there and actually see some results, you can keep your "empty box". ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
Imager GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:47:00 - [10] Originally by: ArmyOfMe depending on the outcome this might be the end of eve for me at least The fact that I don't trust the OP pretty much solidifies my reason for quiting. I don't trust the creators of this game to play fair. They also didn't address the rigging of in game contests. Surprise.
Hebachica	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:47:00 - [11] "Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened what simply a developer doing his job ingame. He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, which was bugged." LOOOL!!!!! Yea right.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:48:00 - [12] To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Blog
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:49:00 - [13] Edited by: Incantare on 25/05/2007 23:48:20 I liked the "sensationalist allegations" bit , but out of three issues the 'news item' only mentioned one.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:49:00 - [14] Uh, there were two separate accusations, IA responded to one of them. Really, the joining the corp one pales in comparison to the other one. Can you please investigate both of the complaints? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Still Hart Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:49:00 - [15] What about all the other major allegations? BoB = CCP makes me sad. :(
matty01 Minmatar Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:49:00 - [16] Originally by: nickky01 so like, whats this all about then. I mean, i KNOW what its about, but lets hear CCP's side of the story this __________________________
Mr Xerox	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:50:00 - [17] While Sharkbait posted in 2006 about something similar to this, he made it clear in that post he always emailed the corp when doing this to inform them of the action. Also, no comment on the other part of the allegations?
Jesters Knight Eclipse Enterprises Empire Research	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:50:00 - [18] Originally by: Hebachica "Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened what simply a developer doing his job ingame. He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, which was bugged." LOOOL!!!!! Yea right. While this did happen in my corporation as well (and <3 to sharkbait for fixing it) i think that it would have been better for that to have been said in the first place. however that dosent answer for ALOT of the other stuff that was said as well Highsec POS labs with no risk of scamming
Myk Taison GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. This is serious business too, can we have a dev in here to address these issues please, thanks in advance.
TrevorReznik Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:50:00 - [20] I am mostly concerned with the complaint about roleplaying. Why was this not addressed?
Jake Stevens The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:50:00 - [21] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. qft. ------------- yarr :(
HatfulOfHollow	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:50:00 - [22] Let's see... A CCP employee joined DS1 and gives himself Director roles without warning The CEO of DS1 files a petition asking why this occured when he sees it in the audit logs The petition is instantly deleted I dunno. Sounds pretty fishy to me. Faith in ISD to give us a straight answer? laffo
Andree Preneur	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:51:00 - [23] Why would we, again, want to trust CCP. They misused the trust given by its players a few times now. I find this statement very weak. Low time or not.
oniplE Aliastra	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:51:00 - [24] How can I, as paying customer, trust any member of CCP, including internal affairs, if you respond to these kind allegations with censorship? Thats right, i can't. Once again you damaged your reputation, and again you have only yourselfs to blame.
Mr Xerox	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:51:00 - [25] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Considering the actions of that same player are the ones that brought the original scandal to light, I would think nothing?
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:51:00 - [26] I feel sorry for those at CCP and ISD that have to put up with this bll***. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Might that be cause they feel the right to do so after such things comes out in the open
Imager GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:51:00 - [28] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Oddly enough this bloc of players haven't had a dev cheat for them in the past. Say what you will, but all we're looking for is equal footing and instead we keep playing against a stacked deck. This is the only proven way to get a response from CCP and if it keeps working I'm sure the folks that continue to play in this rigged sandbox will continue to use it. It's not like a complex that respawns every hour or a few t2 bpos stopped us before.
Methodius	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:52:00 - [29] Edited by: Methodius on 25/05/2007 23:51:20 A thread such as this one should've been created from the start, instead of gagging people left right and center.
Vasant	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:52:00 - [30] Quote: Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened what simply a developer doing his job ingame. He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, ~~which was bugged~~ to determine what it was building and relay the info to his alliance mates." fixed
Sabahl Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:52:00 - [31] I thought lagbombs only worked in-game? :D Poor bard, I must give you a cookie!- Tirg
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:53:00 - [32] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. People are spamming the forums because the original, constructive thread got deleted.
Miz Cenuij OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:53:00 - [33] LOL, just so its clear to everyone, im still not a GM and had nothing to do with this incident either ! "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:53:00 - [34] Hey look on the bright side, At least we know there is no way in hell that CCP is going to stuff this up as badly as they they did last time.. right guys? You know with all the 3rd party news sources now clamouring over yet another CCP controversy isn't it about time you decided to scrap it all and actually hire a staff with a single shred of professionalism who aren't completely obsessed with blatant cheating and someone who is capable of investigating these allegations without keeping the results hidden away, you know, the thing that he's getting paid for?
Gilbert Drillerson DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:53:00 - [35] On may 9 we didnt have any POS issues, infact im 99% sure we didnt have a pos. However we did have some BPO's that stubbornly didnt want to lock down, so if this is all a misunderstanding, that may have been the issue the Dev was trying to fix. However it doesnt explain the deleted petition and the other failed attempts to get an explanation. I am one of the two actual CEO's of Darkstar 1, so this is not guesswork. Dont get mad - Get even
R3dSh1ft FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:53:00 - [36] and what about the banning of the ISD reporter (of 1.5 years no less) without an explanation to him? _________________________________________________________ FIRMA - a drinking corp with an EVE problem
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:54:00 - [37] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Yeah, cause that's far worse than what BoB has done. Besides, if you guys never cheated in the first place, this spamming wouldn't have happend. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Iwone	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:54:00 - [38] I would love to ask CCP ppl to tell us how many more times we need to "trust" them. You ppl are ruining your own game.
Ryunosuke Kusanagi	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:54:00 - [39] that took care of the corporation issue, what about the other issues in the letter? :)
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:54:00 - [40] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. /signed That they have an axe to grind fine. Word got out well enough. To continue with the spam to the point these forums are taken down goes too far even if you agree with their "drama llama" (liked that one).
Chaomos Skynard The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:54:00 - [41] People for sending petitions on the subject are being insta banned. What kind of customer service is this!!! I know of 6 already We are paying customers or does CCP forget this? I love this game but not the people running it. Not sure how much of allegations are in fact true, but certain some of them are. And just pointing at bob is not answer, they just most noticeable, this prob is all throughout the game and is just ****
Dalaakita Vendro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:54:00 - [42] That's funny because everyone in DS1 including the CEO had no knowledge of any 'bugged POS' and didn't file any petitions regarding it?
Miz Cenuij OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:54:00 - [43] Anyone wishing to discuss these allogations in game, use the channel dramabomb, where arguments are being made for both sides of said argument. "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Guy Noir	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:54:00 - [44] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Someone needs a hug
Mr Xerox	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:54:00 - [45] Originally by: Vasant Quote: Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened what simply a developer doing his job ingame. He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, ~~which was bugged~~ to determine what it was building and relay the info to his alliance mates." fixed Yes, he couldn't possibly have been looking for a Titan building POS :)
Kalahari Wayrest	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:54:00 - [46] Well I understand why it's brief... But why does it only deal with one of the concerns raised? I'm not suggesting they're valid or invalid concerns, but they should have at least been acknowleged (even briefly ) __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus
Angry Sheep Amarr Aur0ra	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:54:00 - [47] Ive read the open letter from another internet site as its not allowed here, quite shocked really, in fact gob smacked. It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
Charleton Heston Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:55:00 - [48] So, what about the more relevant question, how BOB got a CCP employee to intervein in an ISD doing his job within a minute, and then subsequently fired? Because that is a lot more important than the GM joining and leaving a corp.
Laura Faorun	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:55:00 - [49] Why can BoB summon Admiral CHarmarjarajhkjshdf to fire ISD at will? Just curious, cause you know, it's pretty much the major issue here.
Guff Dandy	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:55:00 - [50] Why did this response specifically ignore the BoB/ISD complaint? Because I'm pretty sure I know why.
Zy'or Tealon Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:55:00 - [51] Originally by: R3dSh1ft and what about the banning of the ISD reporter (of 1.5 years no less) without an explanation to him? That's a seperate issue and of no concern to us. Originally by: Clementina If you bug report it, you get ignored. If you post about it on the forums, you get banned. If you exploit it, you get rich.
Emrod Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:55:00 - [52] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Bob are honest and dont cheat. I sell some logoff t2 module,improved forum flamming tachyon beam and Bob Lag generator faction item, contact me ingame for more info :P
Toujours Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:55:00 - [53] nothing ***es people off more than paying money , following the rules of the game and then getting hosed with no recourse. Whether this really happened or not , we have fraps of a bob titan pos bowling 3 times in less than 15 minutes. Oh imagine that a gm showed up and he quit. 3 times he did this and if he claims ignorance and you start banning people for voicing our displeasure over the way you run the game that we pay to play is a bit disheartening. We want some answers and if it happened like the T2 lottery that devs rigged for their buddies in BoB then they need to be handled a bit more than a tap on the wrist. asskick productions* Sylph Alliance
Igus	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:55:00 - [54] Quote: We humbly ask our players to trust that the internal monitoring of our employers is being taken seriously. The current allegations will be fully investigated and we will publish our findings at the first opportunity. Please understand that this may not be today or tomorrow, but this issue will not be ignored. LOl is that a joke?
Wanmeili	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:55:00 - [55] Originally by: R3dSh1ft and what about the banning of the ISD reporter (of 1.5 years no less) without an explanation to him? THIS. Why were the other two issues brought up by the open letter not addressed?
deadtear GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:56:00 - [56] Originally by: Laura Faorun Why can BoB summon Admiral CHarmarjarajhkjshdf to fire ISD at will? Just curious, cause you know, it's pretty much the major issue here.
Myk Taison GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:56:00 - [57] also why haven't the other issues been addressed that were raised tia
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:56:00 - [58] Originally by: Hebachica "Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened what simply a developer doing his job ingame. He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, which was bugged." LOOOL!!!!! Yea right. I would think if a Dev with all their Dev Powers available to them could easily be more circumspect if they were up to no good rather than leaving an audit trail a mile wide for anyone to spot.
Mister Wednesday	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:56:00 - [59] Edited by: Mister Wednesday on 25/05/2007 23:55:11 Why are you ignoring the Raekhan stuff? Also why are all RP events rigged? Way to develop a thriving community there, jerks.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:56:00 - [60] hmmmph no idea what to make of it, if ccp's customer service could'nt make me quit eve though I doubt there cheating would either :) Join The Fight With Promo Today
Beastoria Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:56:00 - [61] CCP I for one will wait for your excuse for this ... and I don't really care about the corp joining thing ... Im more interested in the ISD thing. Please investigate BOTH accusations and release two seperate new items. --------------------------------------------------
Halkin Locus Solus	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:56:00 - [62] Edited by: Halkin on 25/05/2007 23:59:45 meh
Test84984949	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:56:00 - [63] The sad part is for the loyal player base of 3+ years that find out in the end that their was really no level playing field in Eve. The entities that we've worked our butts off to challenge are cheaters, and developers of this game. Sorry Bob, your success in game will always have the dark shadow of cheating over it. The people that fight against you win in the end. Take over all of 0.0, doesn't really matter. You will always be known as the alliance that cheated/exploited their way to the top.
TrevorReznik Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:56:00 - [64] It's unfortunate that we don't have the MSN addresses of devs to talk to when people bump us. Unfortunately we have to use these forums instead.
Oohwha Schipperman Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:56:00 - [65] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Well, of course that's what you'd be more interested in.
Emrod Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:57:00 - [66] To be serious... CCP much do something or face the reality and the consequence of this... The end of Eve. I sell some logoff t2 module,improved forum flamming tachyon beam and Bob Lag generator faction item, contact me ingame for more info :P
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:57:00 - [67] Originally by: Zy'or Tealon Originally by: R3dSh1ft and what about the banning of the ISD reporter (of 1.5 years no less) without an explanation to him? That's a seperate issue and of no concern to us. It's off concern to every paying player. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Remielle	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:57:00 - [68] What about the issues with Raekhan and people being banned left and right over this? And why didn't this dev contact the corporation in question about this at first? Their petition was deleted too- what about that? The newspost doesn't address any of the issues adequately, if at all.
Hidiyoshi	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:57:00 - [69] I'll no longer pay any subscription fees due to this scandal. CCP lost me as a customer for life.
saadi	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:57:00 - [70] blacklight go pis your self you already of doing that for some time now
Kasigi Yabu	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:57:00 - [71] Why are you only addressing one issue and not the others?
Jesters Knight Eclipse Enterprises Empire Research	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:57:00 - [72] Originally by: Methodius Edited by: Methodius on 25/05/2007 23:51:20 A thread such as this one should've been created from the start, instead of gagging people left right and center. agree Highsec POS labs with no risk of scamming
Asuka Asami	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:58:00 - [73] The way these things are handled speaks tons of how unprofessional CCP really are. No mention of the other allegations - as per usual with you guys - and once again you resort to banning people who expose your true nature. Good job CCP.
Mae West Odessa Operations Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:58:00 - [74] Edited by: Mae West on 25/05/2007 23:57:20 http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html It's all right there... rigged events ccp involvement.... sad sad Edited for me being silly ========================== I need a sig yo
Lavanyaa Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:58:00 - [75] Edited by: Lavanyaa on 25/05/2007 23:57:24 I call BS. In an earlier post from the former ISD member that got banned, he said ISD had the power to teleport their ships instantaneously. Assuming this was a full fledged GM they have even more power than ISD members do in regards to the game. And why outright delete the petition, the least you could do is set the CEO's mind at ease about it by promptly replying and explaining what happened. Christ CCP you guys are making some really stupid decisions as of late. A quick response explaining the situation and it wouldn't have even been an issue for DS1 (probably).
Mister Wednesday	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:58:00 - [76] Also why wasn't the corporation informed of the dev joining it to fix a bug? And why are you ignoring the Raekhan stuff? Why was the petition about the Dev joining DS1 deleted?
Ja'kar Vendetta Underground	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:58:00 - [77] So is BOB gonna split up?
Nicolas Tesla	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:58:00 - [78] Originally by: Laura Faorun Why can BoB summon Admiral CHarmarjarajhkjshdf to fire ISD at will? Just curious, cause you know, it's pretty much the major issue here.
Scrutt5 Visual I.D GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:59:00 - [79] Humm Dev Misconduct... Unforutunatly we live in a corrupt society, however even goverments nip it in the bud quickly, CCP seem to let it roll. "No smoke without fire" your dealing with an fairly intelegent player base (generaly).
Keeran Caldari Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:59:00 - [80] BoB members blind to the fact that just about everyone is behind this.
oniplE Aliastra	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:59:00 - [81] Originally by: Halkin Originally by: oniplE How can I, as paying customer, trust any member of CCP, including internal affairs, if you respond to these kind allegations with censorship? Thats right, i can't. Once again you damaged your reputation, and again you have only yourselfs to blame. bye then, and no i dont want yuor cheap ass alt stuff Bye then? Who's leaving? You? Can i have your stuff? Since im a poor cheap ass alt as you put it, i might need it.
Karim alRashid Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:59:00 - [82] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest That sounds .. strange.
Guff Dandy	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:59:00 - [83] Why did you delete the petition?
Volyte	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:59:00 - [84] Its not just about the Sharkbait incident. That is just frosting on top of the cake. What is bothersome is the fact that you got one of your own ISD's banned for doing his freaking job. And now, to top it all off, you are banning people while they inform other community members of the situation. How can you go around with the ban stick and not expect a public outcry? I guarantee you, several thousand accounts will probably cancel because of your mundane attempt to cover this up. I love this game, and play it constantly. Its one of a kind. But incidents like this will bring it down, much sooner than later.
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:59:00 - [85] Why am I not suprised?
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:59:00 - [86] I read the letter in its entirety and frankly am disturbed, any player including Sir Molle should not have CCP as their personal ban stick. Covering it up is going to be the order of the day i guess. ------------- Hadean Drive Yards The EvE inflation, 80 Macro miners, 1.5b isk/day
Xalorn Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:59:00 - [87] Whatever happens, its not going to be swept under the rug. Its on ign.com & digg.com (main page) so far.
Keeran Caldari Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.25 23:59:00 - [88] Anyone want to buy my characters?
Emsee S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:00:00 - [89] Why didn't CCP just answer Darkstar 1's petitions? It was a perfectly valid reason for Sharkbait to access director roles, if its true.
Vrabac Amarr Shadowed Souls	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:00:00 - [90] So a developer had to access a corp in order to solve a bug? What's the word... dumb? Yes, that's the one. That's one dumb statement.
More money Erasers inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:00:00 - [91] How long CCP needs time to cover this up? Why to close whole forums to delete that topic..
Chan Zargrim Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:00:00 - [92] This might be the end of Eve for this account and my other. CCP, What the hell?
Hail Xenu	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:00:00 - [93] Edited by: Hail Xenu on 25/05/2007 23:59:36 Originally by: Kasigi Yabu Why are you only addressing one issue and not the others? Because that's hard. No explanation on why the petitions were deleted though, or why none of the people in corp knew about the bugged pos, or why a dev needed to join the corp to fix it unlike normal when GMs fix the POS with their magic. Actually why is a dev doing GM work anyway? edit, oh i see, short term bs explanation, gg ccp, gg.
Methodius	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:00:00 - [94] The fraternizing between the Devs and the players at Fanfests is the main reason for this corrupt behaviour that's been surfacing lately.
WildSide Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:00:00 - [95] u doesnt need to answer on thsi goonies..but was it a Capital building POs we was talking about or jsut a ordinary Pos? if its the first its definaly fishy. Signature Your signature exceeds the height limitation for the forums (120 pixels) -Darth Patches ---Living In Norway--- ---Made In Thailand---
Eurb	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:00:00 - [96] It seems pretty pointless for anyone to play EVE at all if one group of players can just phone up the developpers and get anything they want. Why would anyone want to play a rigged game full of cheats? Hopefully many people decide not to.
Suez Newton GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:00:00 - [97] How hard is it to get logs of this broken POS and of the letter to the CEO letting him know that a GM was going to be entering the Corp?
TrevorReznik Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:00:00 - [98] If we can't trust ISD to deliver news for fear of BoB intimidation, how will we trust the newsposts?
Tananda Vaakaja	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:01:00 - [99] Edited by: Tananda Vaakaja on 26/05/2007 00:00:29 The lack of response and silence is rather telling, any attempts in general discussions get locked or deleted. The payment of monies and the eula we have to agree to constitute a binding legal agreement which does NOT include misconduct, misinformation, and outright FRAUD. When you take my money and then misrepresent a service you are committing fraud. Which is at the last time I looked illegal in every country on the globe.. (with the possible exception of Nigeria). This is shameful conduct my CCP management, and is NOT doing a lot to restore player faith in their abilities. Will we get an honest answer.. it has been given already.. we will be mislead...misinformed... and hushed up as quickly as possible. If this in indicitive of business practises in Iceland I'll be dammed if I'm having MY company invest anything there.
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:01:00 - [100] Edited by: General Windypops on 26/05/2007 00:01:24 Well I guess today is the day that Goons went too far, spammed the forums to the point they were taken offline and lost the credibility of the Eve community. Pretty pathetic to try to debase an entire game with so many uncorped alts simply because of their desire to win a forum war. If you read between the lines of the drama bomb there's not a shred of actual evidence whatsoever. A sad day indeed. I just wish Goons could have conducted themselves with a bit more honour, instead of ruining the game for the entire eve community to further their own political ends. Deliberately spoiling / derailing / spamming every single in game channel and legitimate thread on the forums was a step too far. Learn to respect your community, Goonswarm. If you want to be treated with credibility behave in a way that people respect, don't grief the game for innocent players.
Jonis Sinmaker Valiant Logistics Inc. Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:01:00 - [101] Reminds me of old Curse/Stain war....hmmmm nothing happened then that made a difference...why would anything happen now. -------- Semper Fi, Jonis Sinmaker
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:01:00 - [102] I cant find the words... Un ******* belivable.. Extremely nice done. Hoooraaay.. So, we need to get our raincoats on awaiting the whitewash?
Demlor McKell	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:01:00 - [103] This post doesnt even come close to answering the majority of issues raised by the playerbase. Try again.
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:02:00 - [104] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Considering what your alliance has been involved in (firing of an ISD, spawning BPOs, Dev running the cap fleet, etc.) I'm pretty sure you shouldn't use the word "honest" in any post, on any subject, in any form of the word.
Dave White coracao ardente	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:02:00 - [105] Edited by: Dave White on 26/05/2007 00:02:25 Looking forward to a more detailed 'report' and further investigation results... CORA. Killboard Personal Killboard
Yunitsa	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:02:00 - [106] I realise that you haven't had much time yet, but this response is completely inadequate. Two of the issues raised haven't even been acknowledged.
NotJayKay Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:03:00 - [107] There is nothing to see here, please ignore the blatant cheating and look at the DS1 issue. I repeat, there is nothing to see here.
BlacksouI	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:03:00 - [108] You guys jump to a conclusion too soon and give Arkanon a great stress to do his job. Now that everyone at CCP can monitor their employers :) Quote: We humbly ask our players to trust that the internal monitoring of our employers
Manfred Sideous 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:03:00 - [109] This game becomes more riddled each day with more BS. Im about reaching my fill please ban me and give me a excuse to not play anymore!
Grytok German Kings FROST Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:03:00 - [110] A lot of people loose trust into CCP, when such things happen again and again. Can we please get rid of it, by just not allowing employees of CCP to have active accounts in any Corp or Alliance other than CCPs own like ISD, Polaris, etc.? This will only lead into bad critique and you, CCP, can't get this solved by any chance, as many people wont listen anymore, to what you say defending your actions. Bad critique spreads alot faster, then you can build up your reputation again. I've seen this many times allready: Bad critique ruins business, damn fast. .
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:03:00 - [111] The initial response is ALWAYS damage control and information management, isn't it? Petitions get instantly deleted, accounts get permanantly banned, forum threads are deleted without being addressed and people are put under NDAs just so they won't say stuff like that open letter when the find out. I have said this before and I will continue to say this. Information Management is NEVER going to work as policy. Transparancy and full disclosure of internal events is the only way to work this and you wll have to find a way to work that around the laws that stop you discussing things like the reason someone left the company. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Lady Branwen Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:03:00 - [112] well it was pretty obvious what was up last time around, you covered that up (or tried to) pretty shoddily, you really believe this is a suprise to anyone with half a brain ??? what those of us with half a brain are wondering is when you gimps are going to understand the customers pay for a level playing field theory
Pax Uranus Sofa.Kingdom	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:03:00 - [113] I'll be the first to point out that, based on previous incidents and responses, the procedural model calls for this thread to be left open with no significant official responses until it hits anywhere from 50-100 pages. At this point, the thread will be locked and noone will ever hear anything else about it.
Brianna Sydney	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:03:00 - [114] my main accoutn got banned for asking in help channel what this was about (honestly dident know) and they baned me. complete BS. idk about this issue. i am ****ed cuz i got banned for absolutly no reason. i understand ccp has to make a point about this, but random banning just makes ccp come off badly. Reason: EULA Violation - Disruption of ingame channels
Johanen Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:03:00 - [115] I would like to know why the original threads were deleted without reason given, and why the press release is the same generic side stepping and hand waving that was given to the player base the LAST time CCP was caught cheating, then later caught LYING about it. It seems only overwhelming evidence and massive negative media attention will motivate CCP to do anything other than ignore the problem.
Lsf XXi Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:03:00 - [116] Why can BoB summon someone to fire ISD at will?
Natas Dog Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:03:00 - [117] I'd feel a lot more confident if there was less sidestepping on the other two issues raised in the open letter. I'm anxiously awaiting the impending thread crapping that happens anytime something negative is implicated towards a certain alliance that trolls these forums more than the goons do though. _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last... is usually the one the joke was about.
CmdrJamesStarbucks	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:03:00 - [118] CCP, You're going to have to let people go for this.. The first time should have been a clear sign to all CCP Employees as to not abuse their roles. You're going to have to let everyone go who is in anyway related to this event (which I imagine would be at least 5 employees).
Sen Xia GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:04:00 - [119] I think some people need to consider that this news affects everybody who plays this game, from goonswarm members to bob members and everybody in between. If this scandel turns out to be true, and that some BOB players are found to be guilty of cheating, it would really suck for the other players who have done nothing wrong. They have put in just as much work and to have that work disgraced by this would really suck. People who come into this thread complaining that the goon response was the more morally offensive aspect of this scandal really need to examine their priorities. They clearly do not care about a fair game if they ignore a potential problem like this.
8ObliVioN8 InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:04:00 - [120] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. I would have thought you would be more interested to know if there is indeed any truth in these accusations. If they turn out to be false, then - and only then - should you be interested in what action would be taken against this element of the player base. To suggest that action should be taken without the truth implies you are directing the focus of attention away from the matter at hand. Being a normal paying customer (ie. not a GM, Dev or anything else), I want the truth first, justice later.
Cyllaina Gallente Fallen Angel's Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:06:00 - [121] I read the letter, I don't see anything in there that would constitute a label of " cheating "... A careful read will allow one to see that the ISD guy was clearly bias against BoB in the instance he spoke about, he even admitted to Warping within 1 " Foot " as he put it, of the dread. Come on now, we all know if you warp right ontop of someone, be it a few hundred meters or a thousand, the likelyhood that you're going to bump them is high. So whats the big deal here? Jerk of an ISD reporter got his privledges taken away, -claps- CCP being contacted via MSN rather than petition? Who cares? You all wish you could do such a thing, I don't see any instance in that entire letter than says Orange Species did anything to " Cheat " or change the " State of the game " or the " Course of his pvp operation " By reporting that ***** to someone he might call friend, who just happens to be on CCP staff. Come on now people, all this instigating and calling to arms from the community is what will ruin this game, not the fact BoB has CCP staff on MSN lists. CCP is not a local government, theyre not elected officals, if you don't like the way things are handled, stop paying them, it's not like taxes, you have a choice. They do NOT have to answer to the customer, simply stop being a customer and go play vanguard or something singleplayer so you dont have to interact with other people.
Bob Socko GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:06:00 - [122] If it was just to fix a POS, he would have let the CEO know. If he really did forget, it all could have been cleared up by responding to the petition - rather than deleting the petition outright. I'm very disappointed that the initial response ignores the fact that a BoB pilot got an ISD reporter fired via out-of-game channels because he refused to leave a system. The response also ignores the rigged roleplaying events. I'm very, very disappointed.
Humperdinc	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:06:00 - [123] I got banned on my other account wew !! CCP it's time to get your act cleaned up (not get it together, cause you done plenty of that). Get all your DEVS ISDS out of the game and focus on what is needed for the playersbase, in other words the people that pay our paycheck... The playerbase doest just fine without your divine intervention. You've created a great game, just let the players use it, and get yourselves the f*ck out ! We don't need you ingame we REALLY REALLY don't need u in game.
Rudos	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:06:00 - [124] Originally by: Lsf XXi Why can BoB summon someone to fire ISD at will?
Phoenixhawk Caldari Farscape Mining Hitchhiker's Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:06:00 - [125] None of this really surprises me. Bob's been known as BoD ever since their last time getting busted. If i remember correct someone got banned for bringing that to light too, probably gonna be mass bans with this one too. Stay Chilly & Watch Your Six! Space Vampire
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:07:00 - [126] please ban all goons. see my msg on MSN, k thanks ccp.
Myk Taison GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:07:00 - [127] Originally by: General Windypops Edited by: General Windypops on 26/05/2007 00:01:24 Well I guess today is the day that Goons went too far, spammed the forums to the point they were taken offline and lost the credibility of the Eve community. Pretty pathetic to try to debase an entire game with so many uncorped alts simply because of their desire to win a forum war. If you read between the lines of the drama bomb there's not a shred of actual evidence whatsoever. A sad day indeed. I just wish Goons could have conducted themselves with a bit more honour, instead of ruining the game for the entire eve community to further their own political ends. Deliberately spoiling / derailing / spamming every single in game channel and legitimate thread on the forums was a step too far. Learn to respect your community, Goonswarm. If you want to be treated with credibility behave in a way that people respect, don't grief the game for innocent players. general windypops we are trying to keep this discussion on topic please be serious!
Cyanagen	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:07:00 - [128] Follow the money.
JaegerNZ	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:07:00 - [129] Quote: We humbly ask our players to trust that the internal monitoring of our employers is being taken seriously. Well i can say for most players i have talked with about this topic that there is a firm belief that this will not happen. the main reason for this is that it is in CCP's best interests to say that they have sorted maybe even burn a GM or two but in the greater part do nothing. this sort of in depth corruption would mean a fundimental shift in the way CCP staff interact with their clients and other parts on the community and i cannot see this occurring. Quote: The current allegations will be fully investigated and we will publish our findings at the first opportunity. Please understand that this may not be today or tomorrow, but this issue will not be ignored. The general understanding of this statement is that you do not have enough time to prepare a decent enough cover story, for the actions, while you will indeed find out what will and has occurred making that known to us will not happen, as with all companies you will need to find a way to release the information while appearing to be hard done by. This situation would not have come to past if the correct procedures and checks had been in place. we will all look forward to see what happens will players/corps who have benefited by corrupt GMs behaviors be penalized, will players/corps who had the opposite get compensation? WIll those players who have been banned for this get thier accounts opened again?
jeffb GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:07:00 - [130] Im going to have to agree with Blacklight, interweb forums are so much more important than developer miscoduct.
Lady Spanky Perkone	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:07:00 - [131] Really pathetic goonswarm. Hijacking every forum thread and public channel, forcing forums to be closed for what - a paper thin conspiracy theory? Way to go... losers.
Ouroboron Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:07:00 - [132] Originally by: Laura Faorun Why can BoB summon Admiral CHarmarjarajhkjshdf to fire ISD at will? Just curious, cause you know, it's pretty much the major issue here. This. Also, wasn't he the one who congratulated BoB in local immediately following a titan kill? I think he maybe needs to have his Instant Messenger priviledges revoked, and a key logger installed on any computer he has access to at CCP. This stuff is starting to get out of hand. Chowdown fights with honor.
WildSide Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:08:00 - [133] any goons able to answer (or tell me its secret) if the POS was a capital Pos or not. :) would make things a bit clearer. Signature Your signature exceeds the height limitation for the forums (120 pixels) -Darth Patches ---Living In Norway--- ---Made In Thailand---
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:08:00 - [134] Originally by: Bob Socko If it was just to fix a POS, he would have let the CEO know. If he really did forget, it all could have been cleared up by responding to the petition - rather than deleting the petition outright. I'm very disappointed that the initial response ignores the fact that a BoB pilot got an ISD reporter fired via out-of-game channels because he refused to leave a system. The response also ignores the rigged roleplaying events. I'm very, very disappointed. Dont choke on all that meat
Anton Marx Caldari Bulgarian Mafia Squad The OSS	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:08:00 - [135] But really, if I were BoB, I wouldn't even think of posting in this thread. One BoB post will get at least 10 anti-BoB responses within a blink of an eye... And tbh, arguing (and stating) that ppl should be "dealt with" because they want to express thir frustration of developers (allegedly) cooperating in-game with alliances, is simply outrageous. So BoB, really, just don't bother - you'll get more hated than you already are.
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:08:00 - [136] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. I too am worried about this. How will I be able to cheat if this continues?
Fabienne Runestar Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:08:00 - [137] You can't sweep this one under the rug like you swept the BoB T2 Cynonet chain accessible to BoB directors set up by their then director of capital ships known as T20. Oh wait you changed the EULA on that, that password sharing is at your own risk, and made it seem like it had always been the caae. We demand answers beyond what's been given to us. --- Eve has taught me that Evil will always triumph, because Good is mysteriously unable to log in to defend it's assets.
MacromediaDocumentFormat	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:09:00 - [138] Originally by: 8ObliVioN8 I want the truth first, justice later. True justice can only be had when the truth is known by all.
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:09:00 - [139] Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 26/05/2007 00:08:58 nm
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:09:00 - [140] So I assume all of goon has been forum banned....
Sen Xia GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:09:00 - [141] Originally by: Bob Socko If it was just to fix a POS, he would have let the CEO know. If he really did forget, it all could have been cleared up by responding to the petition - rather than deleting the petition outright. I think there is another big lesson to be learned here. The only reason goons had to blitz the forums is because CCP has shown us we have no other viable ways to make these issues heard. If people want this behavior to stop, then CCP needs to figure out a better way to handle its PR disasters that doesn't involve deleting threads and disabling forums.
Astasia Orian Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:10:00 - [142] A bunch of people (Hi Goonies) emo-declaring the "END OF EVE AAAAAAAA" is cute when most of them have only been around 5 months and were attracted to it for the very reason that it's full of anarchic sillyness. On a t20 scale of scandalness this is about a 0.00001. Credit for being able to make dramamountains out of molehills though!
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:10:00 - [143] The stuff about the POS is only one part of the complaint. Seems like CCP is doing what they did when the t20 **** hit the fan and pretending the more serious allegations didn't happen. I wonder how many subscribers this round of BoB cheating will cost CCP?
Caligulus Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:10:00 - [144] /me awaits to hear what clever spin the PR department will put on it. Not that i'll ever believe a lickin' word CCP says ever again. I feel sorry for CCP's business partners. They're all going down in flames. it's been my experience that you just NEVER trust anything a PR person says on behalf of a company. It all smacks of lies and agendas. As soon as I find a new game to play i'm gone. ** this **.
CmdrJamesStarbucks	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:10:00 - [145] I think it's pretty clear that this is true, given CCP's acknowledgment of the issue. If it wasn't true, they would have not deleted the petition, and secondly they would not have had to take down the forums to hide/deny the issue, and then continue by lying in their press/news release. You don't need director access to fix a POS (that doesn't have a problem).
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:10:00 - [146] This is the dumbest thread I have ever seen. There isn't even any misconduct to report. Please do everyone a favor and just ban every ip that goons have posted with from posting on the forums. Hell, ban them in-game, they do nothing but buy GTCs to fund their alliance and are a detriment to every aspect of the game. Shoot their drama llama in the face too, put it out of it's misery. @goonies: Go here, stay there.
SuperSarge The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:10:00 - [147] Edited by: SuperSarge on 26/05/2007 00:09:35 CCP for the lose. I cancelled my account :) @above poster, its what i'm probably doing
Hebachica	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:11:00 - [148] We no longer play EVE Online We now play Corruption Online
Xalorn Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:11:00 - [149] This still doesn't address the ISD scandal. If someone in bob has the ability to directly influence someones termination, that person has extreme influence to do other things as well.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:11:00 - [150] Oh yeah, just to show how 1337 and aw3s0/\/\3 they are, they continue to spam THIS thread with their non-corp alts. YOU GUYS ARE WINNERS AND I LOVE YOU.
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:11:00 - [151] Originally by: Tod Klemp Looks like tardswarm is looking for a reason to leave. They can't deal with being squished like the bugs they are in 0.0. Cya tardswarm ..l.. you sir, are a moron. now go play wow
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:11:00 - [152] All I see is some wild accusations with proof for only the smallest of them (Sharkbait in DS1). If true, even partially, I admit the matters are serious. But it could also just be social engineering, for all we know. And quite frankly I trust CCP enough to give them the benefit of the doubt. ---
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:11:00 - [153] Originally by: Banana Torres The stuff about the POS is only one part of the complaint. Seems like CCP is doing what they did when the t20 **** hit the fan and pretending the more serious allegations didn't happen. I wonder how many subscribers this round of BoB cheating will cost CCP? Just say no to cheating
Humperdinc	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:11:00 - [154] It's not about BoB it's about DEV misconduct. And now it's proven. http://digg.com/pc_games/EVE_Creators_CCP_Under_Fire_Again_for_Alleged_Corruption_Open_Letter_Made
Biswen hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:12:00 - [155] Well I think this is the end of EvE for me. I'll stay couple of days to see how CCP handles this, but I've really had enough now. And yes ... you can have my stuff when I quit.
goober GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:12:00 - [156] i am wondering what it will take to get my money back from the 2 years of playing a game in which the devs themselves were in violation of almost every rule created to keep this game inline
Kirjava Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:12:00 - [157] Edited by: Kirjava on 26/05/2007 00:11:40 Madness.
Kraken Sra'vik	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:12:00 - [158] Nah for you it works out of game too. Pretty much any bomb for that matter.
hybridundertaker Amarr coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:12:00 - [159] lol a guy posts a nice write up with only 2 jpegs as proofs and the forums get crashed. 1st i dont trust that guy, whoever he claims to be (why came out of closet now, with so many projects and games why even care?) 2nd i dont give a ** if a ccp member enters my corp to test if the bug has been removed or whatevah 3rd bob guys in local vanting about how they can get ccp to do stuff for them is more like a joke (did u notice they name their ship DEVS, u forgot to mention that hard proof) then any proof at all 4th can i have your stuff guys? 5th WTB cheap high sp chars! 6th LOOsers bitter very much? 7th forums deteriorate evn more (i never thought that would be possible) with goons posting, can they pls go back to their own forums... pls... EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER**
Horsepower Antitheft	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:12:00 - [160] Band of Developers tbqh imho
Kaiser Sozay	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:13:00 - [161] Whether there is "dev misconduct" or not is one issue, the fact that CCP allows conditions to exist that would enable this behaviour to occur is another issue. CCP management had better soon come up with a solution to this. For the record, CCP behaviour to this letter is appalling, banning people for posting? I would expect that there will be a public accounting for this.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:13:00 - [162] Originally by: Astasia Orian A bunch of people (Hi Goonies) emo-declaring the "END OF EVE AAAAAAAA" is cute when most of them have only been around 5 months and were attracted to it for the very reason that it's full of anarchic sillyness. On a t20 scale of scandalness this is about a 0.00001. Credit for being able to make dramamountains out of molehills though! ENGAGE BoB DAMAGE CONTROL
Steam Pipe	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:13:00 - [163] "A bunch of people (Hi Goonies) emo-declaring the "END OF EVE AAAAAAAA" is cute when most of them have only been around 5 months and were attracted to it for the very reason that it's full of anarchic sillyness. On a t20 scale of scandalness this is about a 0.00001. Credit for being able to make dramamountains out of molehills though!" cheating is cheating regardless of its magnitude.
ihk	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:14:00 - [164] hello. hello interstellar services department slash internal affairs department at ccp. have you read through the open letter end to end and noted that there were three matters to be handled i know the wall of text after the sharkbait allegations(which i personally was sceptical about as even various goonfleet members put the good word out for him) might seem very threatening to the company with representatives like kieron who have absolutely no goddamn handle on the english language. here let me spell it out in simple english. there were three different allegations. your response is a ******* smoke screen as is everything else you have ever been able to throw at your ever so increasingly aggravated playerbase.
Glengrant Minmatar TOHA Heavy Industries FROST Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:14:00 - [165] Hm, somebody with internal access needs to use tactics like making himself a member, with the high risk of being noticed? How does that make sense? If I were a cheating dev I'd just do a quick SQL query on the DB, get the data without anybody ever noticing it. And why is what CCP says always fishy, while what others say is assumed to be the whole truth? Also the idea that CCP actively helps BoB is plain silly. It's not in their interest to have one dominating alliance - much less the one they are already accused of being in bed with. I'm sure a couple of abuses did happen - but I trust that CCP isn't nearly stupid enough to destroy their own business by allowing their employees to cheat all the time. Take off your tinfoiil hats and don't always assume the worst. You might get a more sensible picture of things. just my 2 cents
PriestWithKnives	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:14:00 - [166] Why did Raekhan get reprimanded by someone within minutes of BoB saying they were going to msn CCP employees and then three hours later get banned from his accounts and access to forums while all petitions he sent get summarily declined. I thought the ability to have a petition sent up the chain to actually get an answer was now accepted. Didn't they set up the new department to look at CCP employee behavior just to help avert this amount of backhanded tactics? We know there have been scandals in the recent past do we really need to have CCP continue destroying their game in this fashion?
Jenesti	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:14:00 - [167] Originally by: Jin Entres All I see is some wild accusations with proof for only the smallest of them (Sharkbait in DS1). If true, even partially, I admit the matters are serious. But it could also just be social engineering, for all we know. And quite frankly I trust CCP enough to give them the benefit of the doubt. and why ccp delete the forum posts about that issue ?
Shema	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:14:00 - [168] ?
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:14:00 - [169] zzzzz
Kalahari Wayrest	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:15:00 - [170] Quote: Also why are all RP events rigged? Way to develop a thriving community there, jerks. Some peoples "rigged" are other peoples "well defined storylines." Personally, I prefer a more open ended adaptive approach (which they may or may not also do?) But that, in itself, isn't really an indication of corruption. Also, your chin is abnormally large. Which isn't a personal attack, merely an observation. __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus
Path Finder	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:15:00 - [171] I dont know if this has been mentioned. I haven't bothered to read the entire thread. This is not the first time that BoB has been caught with their hand in the CCP cookie jar. IMHO, the corp should be disbanded and all holdings eliminated. Its clear that they have a significant advantage in the alliance with CCP. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice shame on CCP.
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:15:00 - [172] Heheh. This is all gold. --- Originally by: Blacklight To be honest
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:19:00 - [173] Originally by: Jayder Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. I think its kind of insulting to all eve players who are affected by dev misconduct for you to sit there and pretend like your corporation is distant to the whole fiasco, when infact you're buried in it. If you really understood the implications that the allegations in the open letter have for your corporation you probably wouldn't be so quick to condescend to the people that are making this good intentioned and well supported accusation. What's your corporations take on... OH WAIT YOU'RE POSTING WITH AN ALT!!!!!! lol
Myk Taison GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:19:00 - [174] Originally by: Wykler Oh did he say new people shouldn't play? I'm pretty sure he said quit being stupid. ok sorry forums poster Wykler
MacromediaDocumentFormat	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:19:00 - [175] I find it remarkable that supposedly this thread is supposed to be closely moderated against trolling and off-topic posts, and yet BoB posters have done nothing but whine about how Goons should be banned for forcing this into the light of day. Hummmmmmmmm...
Mahavy Seth Amarr Vure Ultio Animi Causa	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:19:00 - [176] Originally by: KSUDruid The first thing I thought when I saw the goons posting this was, "Wow, they're just looking for a way to bow out of the game and have an excuse." The responses of this thread prove it. Will be seeing you guys, the door is that way. It seems anyway that any event where a developers is involved, have BoB inside also... like also CCP admitted.
Sral TBear letter of marque	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:20:00 - [177] ¿What to say....there is no chance in hell that ccp will regain trust now....it will colide with there privacy policy..... Im still here, and im proberbly here for a long time. But i realy do understand the fuzz.... We are humans. Its werry simple...did she have sex with another man...?? who knows...who will tell....but it will always tease your brain.... Se ya all in space.... Signature Removed
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:20:00 - [178] Originally by: Wylker Oh yeah, just to show how 1337 and aw3s0/\/\3 they are, they continue to spam THIS thread with their non-corp alts. YOU GUYS ARE WINNERS AND I LOVE YOU. People are only posting on alts because they are getting banned from the forums for posting legitimate replies in this thread. Our forums have tons of discussion about people getting banned. People who only posted legit posts in this thread. It's a shame, honestly. This a great open-ended game but certain people can't keep their hands off the scale. At this point I'd almost rather see the universe wiped and have CCP pay someone competent to police it.
1337tong Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:20:00 - [179] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. 2nd also i am very interested to see how ccp will resolve this issue. i can understand why sharkbait would probably be in a corp taking the director role for a short period of time and im sure anyone with a ounce of common sense could see that it was more then likely down to them making a petition in the first place and sharkbait was doing his job to fix their issue. There is a certain element in this game that somehow feels tarnished because of all this public aired laundry, weather it is true or not remains to be confirmed by ccp themselves. as for those who are looking to leave the game all i can say is maybe it is better for eve that you do go, if some of you feel the need to try and distroy what is left of eve to get at BoB. i do hope that this issue is resolved quickly for ccp's sake. as for those of you who feel that spamming the forums attention seeking is the way to go, i feel that ccp has been rather soft allowing this to continue. 2 strikes down so far, When and IF there is a 3rd strike i hope that ccp deals with this in a more aggressive approach then they have up till now.
Supermarket Su Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:20:00 - [180] to funny, i press quote on this Originally by: Tod Klemp Looks like tardswarm is looking for a reason to leave. They can't deal with being squished like the bugs they are in 0.0. Cya tardswarm ..l.. so upon writing a rightous reply, i find that the quoted text i'm replying to has changed to this :- Originally by: Shadow Elk Will something be done this time around or will it be more promises of employing more BoB personell for various CCP tasks such as internal affairs, PR and so on? nothing stinks round here tho right ?
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:20:00 - [181] Well it was handled incorrectly by both sides. On Non-Anwsered Petitions If CCP didn't respond to the petitions made (if any were made), then CCP was wrong. CCP should have acknowledged the petition, and handled any issues in a private matter. Petitions are the only way the playerbase has to resolve issues, if the petition system doesn't work, then the response is a non-public response by the player. After the issue went public then CCP was right for not answering petitions. (due to the bias of the original poster). On a dev joining the corporation. I don't think this is a real issue, devs should be able to move about freely to fix problems. The only problem i see here is that devs should have better tools so that they don't have to join a corporation to fix issues, or that there is no log that the dev joined or left the corp. On any player claiming to know a developer. Any player claiming to know a dev, or any player who impersonates a dev should be punished according to the eula. If a corp member in bob claimed to be able to know a dev, impersonated a dev, or anything similar to that. That player should be banned if there is any evidence of this, any action taken that even suggests that any CCP staff may be involved should also be investigated. (like if a bob member claims that ccp is going to ban someone, if they do get banned, such action should be looked into) Make Mining Better
Mazuel Grettistak	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:20:00 - [182] I am extremely disappointed in the manner in which CCP has handled these allegations. To censor and restrict the flow of information is simply inexcusable. There is no situation in which this should occur. We're talking about a game here, not National Security. Furthermore, to comment on these allegations in such a manner as to call them "sensationalist"... How dare you? How dare you try to attack this person's credibility when your own is in question? And; to address one single issue to the exclusion of the others, in an attempt to further diminish the post's credibility... Really? Have you been backed in to a corner so far as to need these underhanded tactics? Why not show some professionalism, address the issues up front, and give the accusations the creditability they deserve. This "statement" of yours tells me one thing: You've already decided to sweep this under the rug and ignore the elephant sitting next to you. Please, please, please show us, your paying customers the respect we disserve. Handel this properly. Fear not what lurks in the shadows and dark places of the world. For they who would remain hidden fear you.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:21:00 - [183] Edited by: Jonas Vance on 26/05/2007 00:20:08 You think this is only about goons? You're blind.
Mitawyn Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:21:00 - [184] Originally by: WildSide u doesnt need to answer on thsi goonies..but was it a Capital building POs we was talking about or jsut a ordinary Pos? if its the first its definaly fishy. I can answer that one. There was no "bugged" pos of DS1 in game at that time, or now either.
SuperSarge The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:21:00 - [185] Anyone notice in the response the only thing thats mentioned is Goons getting the forums disabled? Anyway thanks CCP, i've cancelled my account and plan on moving onto a new game. If something ever changes to the point where a person can not go on msn to call up is friend to get an ISD member kicked out, let me know. k thx.
JamnOne Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:21:00 - [186] Originally by: Xalorn Whatever happens, its not going to be swept under the rug. Its on ign.com & digg.com (main page) so far. I must be blind because I don't see this story on either site.
Mayojin Import Export Ltd.	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:21:00 - [187] i wanted to quote someone... but his post was delted g get you employes out of the game - asap trust me - it will solve most prob's me
Natas Dog Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:21:00 - [188] Originally by: Cyllaina I read the letter, I don't see anything in there that would constitute a label of " cheating "... A careful read will allow one to see that the ISD guy was clearly bias against BoB in the instance he spoke about, he even admitted to Warping within 1 " Foot " as he put it, of the dread. Come on now, we all know if you warp right ontop of someone, be it a few hundred meters or a thousand, the likelyhood that you're going to bump them is high. So whats the big deal here? Jerk of an ISD reporter got his privledges taken away, -claps- CCP being contacted via MSN rather than petition? Who cares? You all wish you could do such a thing, I don't see any instance in that entire letter than says Orange Species did anything to " Cheat " or change the " State of the game " or the " Course of his pvp operation " By reporting that ***** to someone he might call friend, who just happens to be on CCP staff. Come on now people, all this instigating and calling to arms from the community is what will ruin this game, not the fact BoB has CCP staff on MSN lists. CCP is not a local government, theyre not elected officals, if you don't like the way things are handled, stop paying them, it's not like taxes, you have a choice. They do NOT have to answer to the customer, simply stop being a customer and go play vanguard or something singleplayer so you dont have to interact with other people. Yes, god forbid we actually want parity in this game. We can all learn a lesson from your words, you should probably put in for a position in ISD about it; I hear there's at least one open as of recently. _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last... is usually the one the joke was about.
Oofig VanDoogan The Return FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:21:00 - [189] Congrats Goons on bringing this to attention, and to the ISD guy as well who called out some of his co-workers and got banned for it. So, how long till the BoB forum gag again? ----------------------------------------------- Recruitment Thread Human Resources Director, RXA
Subflict GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:22:00 - [190] Originally by: KSUDruid The first thing I thought when I saw the goons posting this was, "Wow, they're just looking for a way to bow out of the game and have an excuse." The responses of this thread prove it. Will be seeing you guys, the door is that way. Band of Developers lol
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:22:00 - [191] Originally by: Kuseka Adama First off. Speaking as a former FC player and an ex citizen of Rubi-ka (Anarchy online) i can assure you that when it comes to rigging events nothing can compare not even this to what former ARK events director Lornavash is accused of. A personal vendetta breaking every code that organization had was pursued against one player and was one of the reasons i came to eve. That story is one that would make this pale in comparision. The events team there plays out the events no matter what we try to do. Nothing ever changes there you are at their mercy. So quite frankly i am used to it. I hope this gets sorted and ends with the proper result for all involved. If that means people being fired publicly so be it. If it means a public apology by those involved so be it. But quite frankly i know from personal experiences posts like this do little if anything about the problem. Most dont even bother to listen. Especially on issues like this. It will be done when its done. I do know this aint the only game this happens at sorry to say. Rumors like this have spiraled about many games. Anarchy Online and others have had simular problems. There is no cause so noble as to not attract the *******. indeed wise words chronus, but with the things happend in the past regarding bob it makes it a lot harder not to belive this but i can honestly say i hope its not true since id rather continue to play this game
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:22:00 - [192] The glitched pos makes sense. I'm more concerened aout the wrongful termination of the ISD correspondant and the allegation that BoB is able to reach CCP staff with a simple MSN message, bypassing the petition system used by honest players. Nova Labs and Empire Research
Groox Enterprise Estonia	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:22:00 - [193] Hi goonies, can I have your stuff? I know it's cheesy, but I just could not resist.
Montero Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:22:00 - [194] That's right guys. Blame the goons. They were the ones cheating right? Right? Guys? --------- Scrapheap Challenge
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:22:00 - [195] Originally by: Miz Cenuij LOL, just so its clear to everyone, im still not a GM and had nothing to do with this incident either ! You being a GM would be the single worst business decision any MMO company could ever take.
Ysira Amarr Mortis et Excidium Cold Steel Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:23:00 - [196] Edited by: Ysira on 26/05/2007 00:22:32 This (and the other incidents before) is exactly why anybody with additional powers should be banned from playing on TQ with normal accounts. GMs, Devs and even most of the ISD people. Of course all those people need access TQ with their special roles and abilities. But they should have no further interest on TQ. It is fine that they want to play their game, experience their vision. They can do so on Singularity. It might not be the same as TQ, but at least it is EVE. If there is a private character on TQ and you still have "super powers", there will always be a conflict of interests. Example: Of course that guy got reported for exploiting... But you knew him well. He is in your corp after all. Oh, it was only one time. Better speak to him over TS... And what should we do with that petition? Oh, closed without response. What a pity. I do not say that all GMs (Devs, ISD, and so on) act like this or that even a single GM acts like this. All GMs I had contact to were always helpful and friendly and I greatly appreciate their help and the support they bring to EVE. Outside influence and metagaming is cheating. Just as influencing the game via real life money. You might not be able to eliminate metagaming entirely, but you can limit at least CCP involvement. It leaves a bad mark on your company, even if you investigate each "internal affair". There would be no need for such investigations if you eliminate the cause. I do not know why Devs need to be able to play the game with their own private characters. You can create every situation and even long time gameplay on the test server and nobody cares. You don't need a char in a player corp on TQ to see the effects of your gameplay or develop the game. If you need to check situations or gameplay on TQ, get your developer account and watch battles or go mine some scordite in Hisec. You will be clearly identified as a developer and gather a large crowd, but there will be no accusations of secret behavior or involvement in the "larger alliances". About GMs: I understand that they need knowledge of the game, the gameplay and such things to resolve issues. Why must this knowledge come from a private char on TQ? Is it not enough to play on Singularity and observing TQ gameplay? ISD: Your access to your private chars on TQ should be restricted according to your powerlevel. CRC? Yeah, go on playing on TQ, noone cares for some disappearing threads. AURORA / ISC? Well, flying around in invulnerable ships and observing everything for news purposes. This provides a great deal of metagaming possibilities. No TQ for you, you should have fun with your ISD chars and your events. I knew that the ISD consists of volunteers and that it might not be fair to everyone. But in the end it would be better for the game. (Give me a polaris frig and something to do with news reporting / events, and I would gladly stop playing on TQ with my private chars!) I will not comment on "rigged events" at the moment, but I would appreciate some sort of Dev explanation. Edit: OMG! When I started typing this post I should have been first page... WTF. I should seriously improve my english typing skills.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:23:00 - [197] Originally by: ghosttr Well it was handled incorrectly by both sides. On Non-Anwsered Petitions If CCP didn't respond to the petitions made (if any were made), then CCP was wrong. CCP should have acknowledged the petition, and handled any issues in a private matter. Petitions are the only way the playerbase has to resolve issues, if the petition system doesn't work, then the response is a non-public response by the player. After the issue went public then CCP was right for not answering petitions. (due to the bias of the original poster). On a dev joining the corporation. I don't think this is a real issue, devs should be able to move about freely to fix problems. The only problem i see here is that devs should have better tools so that they don't have to join a corporation to fix issues, or that there is no log that the dev joined or left the corp. On any player claiming to know a developer. Any player claiming to know a dev, or any player who impersonates a dev should be punished according to the eula. If a corp member in bob claimed to be able to know a dev, impersonated a dev, or anything similar to that. That player should be banned if there is any evidence of this, any action taken that even suggests that any CCP staff may be involved should also be investigated. (like if a bob member claims that ccp is going to ban someone, if they do get banned, such action should be looked into) And no one really cares what you have to say anymore.
Kuang Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:23:00 - [198] Originally by: Rudos It's amazing that CCP can still ask us to trust them after so many dishonest and suspicious actions on their part. I have lost any trust that I may ever have had for not only EVE, for the the CCP company as well. BEST POST IN THIS THREAD ... People need to give people time ... and if you don't want to wait THEN GIVE ME YOUR STUFF AND QUIT
Nighlighted Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:23:00 - [199] From the massive Mod lockdown in General to the fact that this has been posted on DIGG I'd say that a major response is needed. Not like last time, since it seems that every few months something shakes this game to it's core group of players.
Kata Amentis Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:23:00 - [200] so let me get this straight, after all the other problems, debacles and scandles... a member of ccp staff has interacted with players without communication... then they covered it up (tbh thats the only way ccp's reaction is going to be taken)... have they not learnt yet that being open and completely honest is the only way they are going to dig themselves out of the hole they have dug for themselves? humbly asking for us to believe them... do they seriously think anyone who has played recently is going to do that?? prove to us that things like this are getting sorted, that there is a zero tolerance policy for ccp staff messing with players... and maybe we will in the (far distant) future. But the mirror is broken. (that'd be trust for those not used to my analogies now they are in trouble for ages, see it does make sense) "Up and up, how far can we go? and how far must we fall to get there?"
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:23:00 - [201] Originally by: Jenesti and why ccp delete the forum posts about that issue ? How do you know who deleted the posts? Moderators are volunteers, and work according to a set of rules. Last time I checked redundant topics were forbidden. While it's possible that a corrupt employee is responsible, in the absence of proof that can not be assumed. We can only wait for the internal examination. It would also be foolish to assume that one or even several possibly corrupt employees represent an organisation and that CCP would not have the best intentions of cleaning the house and clarifying the matter. I see a lot of disappointment and bandwagoners. Some undoubtedly people just looking for an excuse to give the finger and get out. I myself am disappointed, too, but at two things: the possibility that some of the allegations are in fact true, and the way people have disregarded common sense in responding to this "drama llama". ---
Useless alt	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:24:00 - [202] No mater how bugged a POS might be CCP should always at least send a corp mail to the corp it is invading explaining why they are doing this. Not doing this is a thing that is just beond me, and I hope that if the story told is true CCP needs to make a very clear appology to both the corp and the comunity about this incident. I would also suggest a "bug fix" to the whole developer hopping in the driver seat set of commands. Make them automaticaly mail the corp every time this is done this way you as developers that need to: ??gain full access to a corp to be able to check a malfunctioning POS?? (should look at it from logs and DB point of view makes if no sense that you would have to look at it thrue a game interface) As for the story arc having been set in stone and only minor things changable by player interaction... of course that is logical every role player should have realized that by now. How else could CCP tell us that the major factions are going to go to war? As for "a certain" alliance having full access to at least one and quite posibly more CCP staf members both via in game and out of game communications well I guess that this confirms the suspisions that have been made public by several people ever since the first rigged alliance tournament and the second. Oh and the T2 BP incident, the appearant getting rid of an ISD member and the numerous references and threads that various members of the alliance utter during battles and encounters. I guess CCP needs to start putting all staff members accounts under much much strickter survailance. Simply log their every command and in cases like this publish all logs and evidence not just saying we are looking at the data but providing the proof of inocense or guild to their subscribers. Because even though EVE is just a game it is a game that feeds all members of staff in the CCP offices, therefor we as your subscribers have the right to know what is going on so please CCP do not just post a GUILTY/NOT GUILTY news bulletin but provide the means for us to verify your findings.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:27:00 - [203] Lol, this thread is getting epic. I want to make sure I understand what is going on. Some random ISD guy is likely doing something stupid and gets in trouble. In bitterness he goes DIRECTLY to hackerfag and makes up something about jorgu being in touch with BoB on MSN. Everyone bites into hackerfags line of crap because GOONSWARM (<--- here to break the game) has a problem with a GM entering their corp in response to a petition. Best Reaction EVAH. I love these forums. To everyone who's leaving, set up 7 day contracts for your stuff to Wylker please, It'll help with my IPO :)
Daveydweeb	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:27:00 - [204] Edited by: Daveydweeb on 26/05/2007 00:26:12 Originally by: Arushia I'm more concerened aout the wrongful termination of the ISD correspondant and the allegation that BoB is able to reach CCP staff with a simple MSN message, bypassing the petition system used by honest players. Quite right on this point.
Jojo Yohan Gallente Cskillzone DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:27:00 - [205] Originally by: Cyllaina A careful read will allow one to see that the ISD guy was clearly bias against BoB in the instance he spoke about, he even admitted to Warping within 1 " Foot " as he put it, of the dread. Come on now, we all know if you warp right ontop of someone, be it a few hundred meters or a thousand, the likelyhood that you're going to bump them is high. Perhaps you didn't read the part that said that doing that was normal for any member of ISD and then orbiting at 80KM. I didn't see in the teleport code any attribute that states how far away you teleport from a dread or anything else.
Sen Xia GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:28:00 - [206] Originally by: hybridundertaker lol a guy posts a nice write up with only 2 jpegs as proofs and the forums get crashed. 1st i dont trust that guy, whoever he claims to be (why came out of closet now, with so many projects and games why even care?) 2nd i dont give a ** if a ccp member enters my corp to test if the bug has been removed or whatevah 3rd bob guys in local vanting about how they can get ccp to do stuff for them is more like a joke (did u notice they name their ship DEVS, u forgot to mention that hard proof) then any proof at all 4th can i have your stuff guys? 5th WTB cheap high sp chars! 6th LOOsers bitter very much? 7th forums deteriorate evn more (i never thought that would be possible) with goons posting, can they pls go back to their own forums... pls... You just possibly can't understand how this isn't just the "goonies" problems can you? Your pubbie hatred of us doesn't let you see a major problem that affects you just as much as it does us. You don't understand because you are a pinhead who lacks the ability to critically engage anything that doesnt include ****** forum smileys. Just wait till you are affected by corruption. Just wait till you send the petitions and make the threads only to have them ignored and deleted. Then come back to this thread and make the first informed post of your internet life.
Milesofun	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:28:00 - [207] Seems a bit odd, that no ones petioned sharkbait's char since we now, KNOW he's in the Goonswarm so when's he getting deleted? CCP's plicy is not negatible or so they tell us. Get found out get deleted, so nomore sharkbait But on a more serous note It's odd to fix a petion that the corp in question says does not exist, and the other alegations are worse, seems like an info raid at best CCP i know it's a long weekend, but call the boss in and get this resovled, the last time you messed this up big time. So make yourselves look good and do this right
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:28:00 - [208] Originally by: ZeroForce AS A POINT OF FACT i posted the link to the letter http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html my main accoount has now been temporary banned for the next 24hours from the forums for purely posting a few posts with that link in the forums...allegedly i have had "warnings" BS total and utter BS furthermore this shows that CCP is trying to cover this up by silencing people who post the link.....so CCP knows THIS WILL NOT REST....I WILL NOT LET THIS REST GOOD FOR YOU. GO DOWN FIGHTING! YOU ARE WINNER! PUSH BUTTON. RECEIVE BACON. CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL.
ignisgunner Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:29:00 - [209] Originally by: Astasia Orian A bunch of people (Hi Goonies) emo-declaring the "END OF EVE AAAAAAAA" is cute when most of them have only been around 5 months and were attracted to it for the very reason that it's full of anarchic sillyness. On a t20 scale of scandalness this is about a 0.00001. Credit for being able to make dramamountains out of molehills though! why even open your mouth, bob has lost ne crediblity it ever had, ccp lost theres a long time ago, and no matter what happens in this game you will always be rembrered as losers who had to cheat to win. Your like a pimple faced twelve year old playing a first person shooter with a aim bot giggling. this is my Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:29:00 - [210] Originally by: KSUDruid The first thing I thought when I saw the goons posting this was, "Wow, they're just looking for a way to bow out of the game and have an excuse." The first thing I thought when I saw you posting this was "why exactly is this guy so keen to divert everyone's attention?" Questions I still want answered: Why was CEO Pyrex not informed that Sharkbait would make himself a director in his corp? Why were Pyrex's petetions asking for an explanation deleted and further attempts to obtain an explanation treated hostilely? At the very least there's a serious issue of a serious breakdown in communication and customer relations that needs to be addressed. Also it would be great if everything else not-DS1 related could be addressed.
Kam SingDu'k Singularity. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:29:00 - [211] Originally by: Cyllaina I read the letter, I don't see anything in there that would constitute a label of " cheating "... A careful read will allow one to see that the ISD guy was clearly bias against BoB in the instance he spoke about, he even admitted to Warping within 1 " Foot " as he put it, of the dread. Come on now, we all know if you warp right ontop of someone, be it a few hundred meters or a thousand, the likelyhood that you're going to bump them is high. So whats the big deal here? Jerk of an ISD reporter got his privledges taken away, -claps- CCP being contacted via MSN rather than petition? Who cares? You all wish you could do such a thing, I don't see any instance in that entire letter than says Orange Species did anything to " Cheat " or change the " State of the game " or the " Course of his pvp operation " By reporting that ***** to someone he might call friend, who just happens to be on CCP staff. Come on now people, all this instigating and calling to arms from the community is what will ruin this game, not the fact BoB has CCP staff on MSN lists. CCP is not a local government, theyre not elected officals, if you don't like the way things are handled, stop paying them, it's not like taxes, you have a choice. They do NOT have to answer to the customer, simply stop being a customer and go play vanguard or something singleplayer so you dont have to interact with other people. wtb glasses for this guy who claims not to see any cheating! hahaahaha what a joke First of all, EVEN IF the ISD member was caught bumping the dread, nothing happened to it in the end did it? Further more if the dread was in seige mode IT CANT GET BUMPED. Thirdly, is simply bumping a dread worth a lifetime ban? No. It was actually the exposT of the Bob/GM relationship that got them banned! This was also AFTER the t20 incident... lol... Please stop posting wortless posts in order to defend your bosses and play the game on a level playing field. And to the guys who said that everything was solved after the t20 coverup please eat your hats.
Raedeon Gallente VNTR Labs	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:29:00 - [212] Lame. good DRAMABOMB for a Friday \o/, saw a post in CAOD early this week about an incoming DRAMABOMB, thought it would be about something else tbh, i thought it would be about ....... Oh maybe save that one for later, mayhaps next FRIDAY!!! pretty silly crap if the accusations are true. Holding off from saying or jumpin to conclusions. Off to get ****ed up now, ya'll have fun now.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:30:00 - [213] One thing that is clear from the hatred and howling that accompinined the probable innocent action from the Dev - is that elements of CCP are percieved by a large percentage of their player base as untrustworthy and are 'lived with' as someone in a peasant village would live with a corrupt dictator who lived in the capital many miles away. The attitude that "if you dont like it - quit" is simplistic and defeatist. Players have invested a lot of time and isk into the game - and the game has a lot going for it. What has been proven though - is that mud sticks - and CCPs initial decision to try to stuff the rabit back into the hat was patronising and ill thought out. SKUNK
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:30:00 - [214] Just a quick update from DS1, whom the GM joined, gave himself roles and left just confirmed that they only have three POSs, and no one petitioned. I'd really like to see how the GM explains this.
Barwinius Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:30:00 - [215] For shame, CCP. I thought you would have figured out how to handle this by now.
ikhi	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:30:00 - [216] Originally by: Wylker Lol, this thread is getting epic. I want to make sure I understand what is going on. Some random ISD guy is likely doing something stupid and gets in trouble. In bitterness he goes DIRECTLY to hackerfag and makes up something about jorgu being in touch with BoB on MSN. Everyone bites into hackerfags line of crap because GOONSWARM (<--- here to break the game) has a problem with a GM entering their corp in response to a petition. Best Reaction EVAH. I love these forums. To everyone who's leaving, set up 7 day contracts for your stuff to Wylker please, It'll help with my IPO :) man the biggest problem with you f5'ing every thread on earth just to post about goonswarm is that you've probably never even seen one on local that and your posting is an incredibly horrible sight way beyond what one could expect from even the most illiterate members of dice
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:30:00 - [217] Disappointing and yet completely unsurprising set of allegations. Bottom line, CCP has mucked this game up quite a bit in various different ways, corruption being only one. The player base is getting justifiably jaded. I can't even be bothered to act shocked or appalled at news like this anymore.
Pringlescan	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:31:00 - [218] Originally by: General Windypops Edited by: General Windypops on 26/05/2007 00:01:24 Well I guess today is the day that Goons went too far, spammed the forums to the point they were taken offline and lost the credibility of the Eve community. Pretty pathetic to try to debase an entire game with so many uncorped alts simply because of their desire to win a forum war. If you read between the lines of the drama bomb there's not a shred of actual evidence whatsoever. A sad day indeed. I just wish Goons could have conducted themselves with a bit more honour, instead of ruining the game for the entire eve community to further their own political ends. Deliberately spoiling / derailing / spamming every single in game channel and legitimate thread on the forums was a step too far. Learn to respect your community, Goonswarm. If you want to be treated with credibility behave in a way that people respect, don't grief the game for innocent players. Have you been reading the thread? Did you read the allegations? Do you think ccp had an emergency meeting due to some desire of ours "to win a forum war' Im pretty sure the answer to that is no because if YOU had you and the bob members are the only ones to immediatly dismiss this from out of hand. You can not possibly tell if were right or wrong yet you automatically assume that we are without giving a chance for the evidence to surface. That is an example of being politacly motived hands down. We didnt want to spam the forums but since ccp deleted the orginal thread we were forced to, so that everyone would know that there were allegations against CCP that it tried to hide from. If you read the posts so far the only people to lose credulity from this is CCP and BOB itself. Remember this is whats being accused. 1. A gm joined a corp without ANY warning to the pos owners, gave himself director roles and left again without giving any notice. His petion was deleted without any reason given. 2. A former RP volunteer has given evidence that RP events are being rigged and CCP is trying to cover it up. 3. The same man was kicked and fired for allegdly bumping a bob dreadnaught while performing his duties as a reporter in a completly legit way, and not obeying the BOB fc who had no authority over him at all and called in a GM to deal with it through freaking MSN. That is whats at issue here and i might as well add of course CCPs typical reaction when asked for answers.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:31:00 - [219] Quote: Originally by: hybridundertakerlol a guy posts a nice write up with only 2 jpegs as proofs and the forums get crashed. 1st i dont trust that guy, whoever he claims to be (why came out of closet now, with so many projects and games why even care?) 2nd i dont give a ** if a ccp member enters my corp to test if the bug has been removed or whatevah 3rd bob guys in local vanting about how they can get ccp to do stuff for them is more like a joke (did u notice they name their ship DEVS, u forgot to mention that hard proof) then any proof at all 4th can i have your stuff guys?YARRRR!! 5th WTB cheap high sp chars!ugh 6th LOOsers bitter very much? LaughingLaughingLaughing 7th forums deteriorate evn more (i never thought that would be possible) with goons posting, can they pls go back to their own forums... pls... You just possibly can't understand how this isn't just the "goonies" problems can you? Your pubbie hatred of us doesn't let you see a major problem that affects you just as much as it does us. You don't understand because you are a pinhead who lacks the ability to critically engage anything that doesnt include ****** forum smileys.Twisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil Just wait till you are affected by corruption. Just wait till you send the petitions and make the threads only to have them ignored and deleted. Then come back to this thread and make the first informed post of your internet life. Signed, THIS IS NOT JUST A GOONIE ISSUE. I think BoB and CCP should issue formal appologies. BoB needs to pay for their arrogance. (Oh and CHEATING)
Obron Mettlo Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:31:00 - [220] Originally by: 1337tong Can you step out of your BoB persona for a second and consider a few things? What else, when IA is implicated, petitions are deleted, valid posts are locked and erased, are we supposed to do? Write an evemail to the accused about how they themselves are accused of cheating? Give me a break. When was the last time a dev/GM EVER had to join a corporation to fix a bugged POS? What's the point of being a GM if you have to join the corporation to resolve something a simple and buggy as POSs. Surely if this were common practice, we would have heard of a GM joining a corporation before considering POSs are consistently the buggest part of the game. You don't find it at all suspicious that on top of all that, neither CEO of DS1 knew of any such bugged POS until it was brought up in this thread?
KeratinBoy	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:31:00 - [221] Dear CCP, I realize that the publishing of Goonfleets open letter has caused your weekend to be ruined. Two days of non-work fun gone down the drain is depressing. However, the players of Eve would like some response addressing their concerns about the following: 1) The rigging of RP events. Why bother Rping if your contributions are going to be ignored if you are not from a favoured alliance? See also "railroading". 2) A Dev using his powers to join DS1, become a director, then leave, all in 20 minutes. Why did he not contact the relevant parties beforehand and why did he need to do it on the first place? What was he not able to do without joining the Corp? 3) The incident apparently leading to the banning of Raekhan. What did he do that required termination of his account? I realise that you have been overwhelmed by the Threadnaught previous to this thread but censorship of ideas will lead to drastic responses, especially on the internet. With all the current attention you have garnered over your behaviour, this would be an excellent time to show many, many people that you are capable of addressing their concerns in a transparent and thorough fashion.
Mad Wasp	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:31:00 - [222] banning people for posting the link http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html is straight un called for and unessary, THis by no means a breach of the user liscense agreement. And banning people for 24 hours just because you don't like the infomation that has, and will continue to be posted, is BS!. cause guess what, we don't like the information either. If these accusations are even remotly true it is the responsibilty of the game develpers and staff to take legal and affirmative action against their employee's.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:31:00 - [223] Also can someone tell me who Aftermath Alliance are thx
Adell Al'Tahlal GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:31:00 - [224] Spamming only occurs when CCP and forum moderators remove threads asking for genuine answers and discussion. When the topic at hand is blindly swept under the rug in hopes of hiding it from the public is when drastic measures need to be taken. Unfortunately things like this have a huge impact on the faith people as players put into the company in charge of running the game we all play as an outlet for entertainment, whatever form that may be you get from Eve. The topic brings up valid questions that *ALL* need to be answered, not moderated.
Igus	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:32:00 - [225] http://digg.com/pc_games/EVE_Creators_CCP_Under_Fire_Again_for_Alleged_Corruption_Open_Letter_Made
Lady Branwen Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:32:00 - [226] Originally by: Kata Amentis Edited by: Kata Amentis on 26/05/2007 00:24:19 so let me get this straight, after all the other problems, debacles and scandles... a member of ccp staff has interacted with players without communication... then they covered it up (tbh thats the only way ccp's reaction is going to be taken)... have they not learnt yet that being open and completely honest is the only way they are going to dig themselves out of the hole they have dug for themselves? humbly asking for us to believe them... do they seriously think anyone who has played recently is going to do that?? prove to us that things like this are getting sorted, that there is a zero tolerance policy for ccp staff messing with players... and maybe we will in the (far distant) future. But the mirror is broken. (that'd be trust for those not used to my analogies now they are in trouble for ages, see it does make sense) As i haven't got the foggiest about any of the other event being discussed, thats the only bit i'm going to comment on.. Considering the past Kuang I'm sorry but your optimism seems a tad out of place m8.
Marketcheck2	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:32:00 - [227]
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:32:00 - [228] Pringlescan, don't forget that the corp the GM joined are pretty damn surprised, as they never asked for his assistance.
perfeus Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:32:00 - [229] Umm, So let me get this straight. I am supposed to take it at someones word that they were an ISD member who uncovered a "super secret" conspiracy in which CCP would put their own real life jobs and company on the line in order to help an imaginary alliance in an online space game? And that when he "uncovered this truth" he was fired by the big bad corporation CCP. Sounds like a low rate hollywood movie to me. And then "the goons" are going to try to force the issue by having a million alts post on various forums and in here? I don't know much about BOB or all of this crap, but seriously, this is some of the dumbest crap to hit these forums. Give it a rest already As for the GM entering a corp unexpected, yeah, I would agree that's crap and mishandled if in fact it was handled the way we are hearing that it was handled.
Qece	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:32:00 - [230] Originally by: General Windypops Edited by: General Windypops on 26/05/2007 00:01:24 Well I guess today is the day that Goons went too far, spammed the forums to the point they were taken offline and lost the credibility of the Eve community. Pretty pathetic to try to debase an entire game with so many uncorped alts simply because of their desire to win a forum war. If you read between the lines of the drama bomb there's not a shred of actual evidence whatsoever. A sad day indeed. I just wish Goons could have conducted themselves with a bit more honour, instead of ruining the game for the entire eve community to further their own political ends. Deliberately spoiling / derailing / spamming every single in game channel and legitimate thread on the forums was a step too far. Learn to respect your community, Goonswarm. If you want to be treated with credibility behave in a way that people respect, don't grief the game for innocent players. Goonfleet is full with role-players. Shame for you that we all roleplay as useless, honourless****gots. This is not a signature.
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:33:00 - [231] Well, I will repost my thoughts on this matter. Hopefully the spam train will stop soon so some logical, unbiased discussion on the issue may occur. Well i think it was handled incorrectly by both sides. On Non-Anwsered Petitions If CCP didn't respond to the petitions made (if any were made), then CCP was wrong. CCP should have acknowledged the petition, and handled any issues in a private matter. Petitions are the only way the playerbase has to resolve issues, if the petition system doesn't work, then the response is a non-public response by the player. After the issue went public then CCP was right for not answering petitions. (due to the bias of the original poster). On a dev joining the corporation. I don't think this is a real issue, devs should be able to move about freely to fix problems. The only problem i see here is that devs should have better tools so that they don't have to join a corporation to fix issues, or that there is no log that the dev joined or left the corp. On any player claiming to know a developer. Any player claiming to know a dev, or any player who impersonates a dev should be punished according to the eula. If a corp member in bob claimed to be able to know a dev, impersonated a dev, or anything similar to that. That player should be banned if there is any evidence of this, any action taken that even suggests that any CCP staff may be involved should also be investigated. (like if a bob member claims that ccp is going to ban someone, if they do get banned, such action should be looked into) Make Mining Better
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:34:00 - [232] Its wonderful to finally get to see the CCP/BoB spin live. I never seen anything like this befor. Its highly entertaining and impressive.
Buttercup Sedai	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:34:00 - [233] Congrats CCP, you made the front page of Digg.com! Tell your mom, I know she'll be proud. http://www.digg.com/
Jebe Noyon Exotic Dancers Club Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:34:00 - [234] If this whole crap comes out to be true how is CCP going to refund guys who were playing in aliances like ASCN and others who were pwned by CCP friends? Cuz I somehow think that paying equal amount of money and getting not equal chances might feel a person a bit robbed.
Parsil	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:34:00 - [235] Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why can BoB summon Admiral CHarmarjarajhkjshdf to fire ISD at will? Just curious, cause you know, it's pretty much the major issue here. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:34:00 - [236]
Mad Wasp	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:39:00 - [237] i like how fast the pages are vanishing
Mortecai Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:40:00 - [238] CCP employees messed up again? Nothing new here. IA will conduct a little check and will find that IA did nothing wrong. The moment there are petitions and forum threads deleted and no response from CCP things get fishy. And this is what you get CCP. Another fan-full of brown sticky/messy stuff to clean up. And all you needed to to was to get a grip on your workers in this game. Guess you dont care/are not interested. Have fun shoveling ...
Fiendish Lo Eve University	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:40:00 - [239] What's really sad is that because of CCP's past handling of misconduct, their word is worth less than that of corporations coming from the forum that made the term "Photoshop Friday" famous. And for what it's worth, that's probably justified.
PastaMadaFaka	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:40:00 - [240] well with all these posts arround i wana see what ccp is gona say about it?
Silus Fromme	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:40:00 - [241] I have played EVE for nearly two years. I have never made a forum post before. I have only made 1 alt ever, who is used to hold open my one-man corp. This is undoubtedly the only post I ever will make on this forum. Subscription cancelled. It took several instances of me turning the other cheek, but CCP has eventually driven home the point that they are not worth my money. No, you can't have my stuff. I'd prefer if my character and all assets become unavailable to the game as a whole. Consider it SP- and isk-drain from a game that seems to be in serious need of a public drubbing.
8ObliVioN8 InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:40:00 - [242] Originally by: Cyllaina CCP being contacted via MSN rather than petition? Who cares? I care. It favours CCP's privileged "friends" over the rest of the fee paying player base. The petition system is the only FAIR method of contacting CCP for in game issues. It's also inappropriate contact like this that's exposing CCP to conflicts of interest like this in the first place. No player should ever receive any form of preferential treatment over another. Period.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:41:00 - [243] Back in REALITY we realize that a GM could easily see what's building in a POS without the need to join that corp. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Tomcatt Amarr STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:41:00 - [244] Originally by: JamnOne Originally by: Xalorn Whatever happens, its not going to be swept under the rug. Its on ign.com & digg.com (main page) so far. I must be blind because I don't see this story on either site. It's on Digg.com; I've read it there myself. Not so sure about IGN; haven't seen it there. http://www.digg.com/pc_games/EVE_Creators_CCP_Under_Fire_Again_for_Alleged_Corruption_Open_Letter_Made Waiting to see if it gets put on /.
Mahavy Seth Amarr Vure Ultio Animi Causa	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:41:00 - [245] CCP Tomorrow Response To All This: BoB POS was bugged in the ion cell augmentaion idrodynamic propeller piston, and need a CCP developer to join the alliance as a director because in no other way we was able to solve the problem. Regarding all other allegations, it seems that some peoples take great delight to uncover what they think it is true. The fact that BoB is always involved is merely an unlicky event. We close this topic and we will ban everyone will again talk about this.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:42:00 - [246] People can't post Digg links? Now THAT is censorship at it's finest. Glad I live in a semi free country.
Uruko Minmatar North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:42:00 - [247] Why don¦t goons just quit the game pls.
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:42:00 - [248] Originally by: Silus Fromme I have played EVE for nearly two years. I have never made a forum post before. I have only made 1 alt ever, who is used to hold open my one-man corp. This is undoubtedly the only post I ever will make on this forum. Subscription cancelled. It took several instances of me turning the other cheek, but CCP has eventually driven home the point that they are not worth my money. No, you can't have my stuff. I'd prefer if my character and all assets become unavailable to the game as a whole. Consider it SP- and isk-drain from a game that seems to be in serious need of a public drubbing. You don't even want a proper CCP-endorsed response yet? What if it's all horsesht and the Goons are just trying to kill the game for some reason or whatever? If there's more to this that isn't apparent? You're going to throw away two years of work for that? You're pathetic. --- Originally by:* Blacklight To be honest
Mad Wasp	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:42:00 - [249] could someone please get the the 3rd link in http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html i have been uable to get this information can someone please post on where or how to get this information
Jesters Knight Eclipse Enterprises Empire Research	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:42:00 - [250] Originally by: Cyllaina I read the letter, I don't see anything in there that would constitute a label of " cheating "... A careful read will allow one to see that the ISD guy was clearly bias against BoB in the instance he spoke about, he even admitted to Warping within 1 " Foot " as he put it, of the dread. Come on now, we all know if you warp right ontop of someone, be it a few hundred meters or a thousand, the likelyhood that you're going to bump them is high. So whats the big deal here? Jerk of an ISD reporter got his privledges taken away, -claps- CCP being contacted via MSN rather than petition? Who cares? You all wish you could do such a thing, I don't see any instance in that entire letter than says Orange Species did anything to " Cheat " or change the " State of the game " or the " Course of his pvp operation " By reporting that ***** to someone he might call friend, who just happens to be on CCP staff. Come on now people, all this instigating and calling to arms from the community is what will ruin this game, not the fact BoB has CCP staff on MSN lists. CCP is not a local government, theyre not elected officals, if you don't like the way things are handled, stop paying them, it's not like taxes, you have a choice. They do NOT have to answer to the customer, simply stop being a customer and go play vanguard or something singleplayer so you dont have to interact with other people. i am sad to say i was once Xelas. from your words i wish i could strike that from my record. Highsec POS labs with no risk of scamming
Imuran	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:43:00 - [251] Originally by: Arushia The glitched pos makes sense. I'm more concerened aout the wrongful termination of the ISD correspondant and the allegation that BoB is able to reach CCP staff with a simple MSN message, bypassing the petition system used by honest players. Agreed
Wikkid	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:43:00 - [252] I just listened to Eris Concordia and the others for an hour talking about storylines and roleplaying. What's sad is that all of their work and all of their efforts will be forever tainted by all of this.
Death Priest Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:43:00 - [253] Originally by: Milano II Originally by: Iwone I would love to ask CCP ppl to tell us how many more times we need to "trust" them. You ppl are ruining your own game. /Signed Counter Signed
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:43:00 - [254] So.. I pay to play.. Do I get a refund?
Daveydweeb	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:43:00 - [255] Originally by: Tomcatt Originally by: JamnOne Originally by: Xalorn Whatever happens, its not going to be swept under the rug. Its on ign.com & digg.com (main page) so far. I must be blind because I don't see this story on either site. It's on Digg.com; I've read it there myself. Not so sure about IGN; haven't seen it there. http://www.digg.com/pc_games/EVE_Creators_CCP_Under_Fire_Again_for_Alleged_Corruption_Open_Letter_Made Waiting to see if it gets put on /. It's probably worth mentioning that the story is now on the front page of Digg.
Mad Wasp	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:44:00 - [256] same in 1 year of playing i have not posted before, this is simple unacceptable and no i can't spell :-)
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:44:00 - [257] Originally by: perfeus Umm, So let me get this straight. I am supposed to take it at someones word that they were an ISD member who uncovered a "super secret" conspiracy in which CCP would put their own real life jobs and company on the line in order to help an imaginary alliance in an online space game? Nobody is demanding you accept anyone's word, this is about raising legitimate concerns (and a former CCP-employee alleging corruption, devs entering corps unanounced, GMs deleting petitions and evidence suggestion RP events are fixed are legitimate concerns whatever you may think of the validity of the claims) and ensuring that this time around we get an open and honest account of the events and actual concrete repercussions if any CCP employess are guilty of misconduct.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:44:00 - [258] Originally by: Shinigami Back in REALITY we realize that a GM could easily see what's building in a POS without the need to join that corp. We also realize that a GM could easily remove that record if he was doing something wrong. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Death Priest Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:44:00 - [259] Originally by: Phoenixhawk None of this really surprises me. Bob's been known as BoD ever since their last time getting busted. If i remember correct someone got banned for bringing that to light too, probably gonna be mass bans with this one too. Take my word it wont be any BOB that gets banned though
Xor tacnell	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:45:00 - [260] Originally by: General Windypops Edited by: General Windypops on 26/05/2007 00:01:24 A sad day indeed. I just wish Goons could have conducted themselves with a bit more honour, instead of ruining the game for the entire eve community to further their own political ends. If we goons had the devs on speed dial for quick fixes, explainations (and firings), we wouldn't need to make noise. As it stands, e-honor in eve is dead. Just ask BoB, pretending to ave e-honor is easy when you quietly solve your problems in collusion with CCP.
TheOnePunisher Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:53:00 - [261] DO YOU THINK Were **in stupid? That entire letter explains how ISD members or people who spoke about your **** up staff got banned.. So do your really want us to email you.. sayin hey well i know this.. then the next 3 mins wam im banned.. jesus.. do you think where morons? -------------------------------------------- I take No Prisoners... and i Dont spare the Weak!
Fiendish Lo Eve University	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:53:00 - [262] Originally by: CCP Arkanon Thank you for your input, we are following this thread and would very much like to ask for your cooperation in verifying some of the statements made, particularly those directly involving CCP staff or volunteers. Please note that we will need some details to be able to investigate, the more the better. I'd be very interested in knowing what Sharkbait and the employee who banned Raekhan have to say about it. Any news?
mr unpleasantry	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:53:00 - [263] This type of news comes up far too often. It is disturbing as well. If we are supposed to TRUST your internal processes then remember this ENRON, AOL/TimeWarner, and MCI Worldcom said the same thing. Then they filed for 3 of the largest accounting scandals in US history. Fear your "flawless" internal auditing and beware of the monitors monitoring the monitors. Though no system is ever perfect in one way or another it catches up with everyone.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:54:00 - [264] Originally by: Wylker I predict that you'll find a lot of smoke, mirrors, and noise, and very little fact or proof. Like the t20 thing ?
Mad Wasp	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:54:00 - [265] AS i do not believe in spamming, as a result of ccp deleting post and banning accounts, please post 1 thread topic in many sections throughout the forum. I post per person shouldn't be a breatch of the terms and service agreement, please make it your own and bring up some of the sad issues here, please do not copy and past
Scouty McPiperunner	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:54:00 - [266] Originally by: Hallowed Point All BoB members might want to refrain from posting; when the t20 scandal came out, BoB members posted early and often about how it was all lies. Then, it turned out to be true, and those BoB members looked very silly indeed. If BoB members don't care about their Alliance being involved in scandal after scandal because winning is everything, they don't care about looking silly on a message board.
Kesslar Znel Exegesis Aerospace GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:55:00 - [267] I'm an ex-member of the Aegis Militia, now in Goonswarm. Between this, the rigging of RP events, and the stuff about the ISD guy getting fired- apparently at the request of someone in BoB, this is all pretty disturbing and hits really close to home on all fronts. I haven't really been playing much because of the super-capital situation in 0.0, this might just be it for me.
Sir Mole	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:55:00 - [268] Look, fools, this is the way it works: Step one, purge the forums of the posts. Step two, post a non-responsive answer and set up a thread so you all can vent. Step three, wait 48 or so hours, lock the thread (without bothering to read it) and post some blather about how "we've dealt with it but we can't tell you how for obvious reasons." Step four, begin to issue warnings and subsequently forum bans to anyone who continues to press the issue. We know you will continue to pay us, er CCP, your money. It doesn't effect you enough to risk the time investment you've put into your characters. So why are you waisting your time? Mole
busta nut Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:55:00 - [269] BoD and CCP accused of cheating? surely not? CCP admitted to the last accusation of helping bod, we should believe that this time is different because....?
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:56:00 - [270] Originally by: Wylker I predict that you'll find a lot of smoke, mirrors, and noise, and very little fact or proof. Whether it's smoke and mirrors or not I'd hope you agree that an ex-CCP employee publicly alleging misconduct, information being leaked that RP events are rigged (not storyline guided, rigged) and a CEO having petitions asking why a developer took on director roles in his corp deleted are matters that should simply be ignored.
Superbus Maximus Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:56:00 - [271] Haha these get better and better cant wait for the next one. It will probably keep me laughing for weeks. How many times does ccp have to stick its hands on the grill before the brain senses the pain Please do not edit moderator sig comments. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Daveydweeb	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:56:00 - [272] Originally by: Ezra Maybe YOU should read the letter more carefully. It is the job of ISD ICs to cover battles. To do that, they need to be at the battle. This is why ISD ICs have the teleport command available to them. The fact that this teleport command (Remember, TELEPORT, not warp) places the ISD member right on top of the target ship is not the fault of the ISD member - It is the fault of whoever coded that tool. An ISD member should in no way be punished for flaws in the tools given to them BY CCP. From reading the letter, Raekhan made every effort to avoid interfering with the battle, short of simply not covering it at all. (Such as immediately moving out to a range of 80+km from the blob after teleporting). Why does the ISD teleport tool drop the ISD member right on top of the target? Why doesn't it have a range option just like warping? Why do ISD ships have a physical detectable presence in the game? Why is it even possible for a Polaris frigate to bump a normal ship? Why is an ISD member being held accountable for clear insufficiencies in tools provide by CCP? Excellent post. Those questions really are just as important as the ones relating to the DS1 POS, and demand equal attention.
Stellar Vix	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:56:00 - [273] Other than 4000 goons trying to post of the fourms about once little thing a spy in their corp could have gotten just as easily I dont see to much wrong with the shark bait incident. There is evidence the dev did indeed get into thier corp and quit not to much afterwards. Now Sharkbait in a directors positions could have done alot more damage such as screwing with standigns, cancelling jobs, emptying wallets, disbanding the allaince, firing the other two directors so there wouldnt been any evidence in logs. As for Petition Deletions it probably is a GM standard to delete petitions handeled by developers because whatever the developer fix or tyring to fix is above and beyond the GM's ability. Then again im no gm so i dont know. However the ISD incident is rather well... interesting. I however feel the blogger although as lengthy the story is, he/she isnt telling all of the story, espeically bout CCPs orders on the roleplay flow chart. CCP may want certain events rigged due to well story line requirements, remember all 4 empires will be going to war soon and they have to progress the events to coincide with this fact. Also what the ISD member did would have gotten him removed for his roles for interfering with fleet momvents. Im sure AAA would make the same complaints if an ISD member got in the way of thier titan preventing it from warping off. Had the ISD member said sorry give me a moment to reposition elsewhere to watch the battle or something along those lines im sure that allaince wouldnt have been to ****ed off. The only thing of interest it seems though is the amount of access bob has directly with the devs, i mean sure i can talk with sharkbait on a daily basis in the help chat room but these guys know thier proviate chat channels it seems. \ So I ask internal affairs group to encourage the use of ingame chat channels for ISD/Aurora members and disallow guests from joining. This wont stop folks from all corners of the universe from joining the Concord brunch crew but it will cut down on metagaming a tad bit. It also gives hard evidence to internal affairs and IRC logs belonging to ISD could be private and seperate from CCp making it harder to track down. Other than that its another thing people will blindly take sides in and will burn it into thier memories to thier grave. And im still waiting on all those peopel who said they would quit from up to four incidents ago to this one to do so, I still see alot of them on today still carrying on thier grudges and still getting angry.
Iraf Thaiberd GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:56:00 - [274] Edited by: Iraf Thaiberd on 26/05/2007 00:57:04 Hi. I'm a Goonswarm director. What's below was posted on our internal forum by the CEO of DS1 a few minutes ago. Although several of us have urged him to post it here, I fear he is afraid to do so. See, we've had several alliance member perma-banned for linking to the open letter on our website in various channels. Some of them were probably spamming it (although I thought that muting was the usual corrective action there) but several were simply putting the link, ONCE, into a channel because someone else asked what everyone was talking about. So, as you can probably surmise, we've quickly moved from "Good ole boys club cheatin again" to "Be careful what you say because the coverup appears to be out for blood." Anyway, here's what Pyrex had to say on our forum: Quote: for the record, Darkstar1 has 3 pos in game only and they have always worked fine and have never been petitioned by anyone in the corp for not working, the statement given by CCP is incorrect and simply not true as far as i can tell. I am certain that the developer joining our corp is above board and no malice intended but frankly the manner in which he did it in these times of little trust and confidence in certain parties leads to a high level of suspision and drama. Too much of the actions are clouded and fogged, all it would of taken was an explanation via a mail or something to say he was going to do what he did. This incident shows clearly that there is still a lack of trust when it comes to the developers of this game acting in a trustworthy unbaised manner, i remind you all that the ISD bias and events issues are still unaccounted for...... Our biggest fear now is that pretty much most of ds1 will be made a scapegoat and banning will start so that the questionable cover story can be maintained. As of this moment i have ordered all DS1 to cease all communications on this topic thru total and abject fear of the way CCP handle legitimate challanges to their actions thru sweeping banning and account suspension. Naturally enough, the ISD and RP event concerns are MUCH greater than this, but learning of those two along with this whole "Dev in one of our alliance's corps refusing to explain himself" thing at the same time has forced us to make an issue of all three as a collective example.
Mamba Lev Caldari The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:56:00 - [275] Anyone CCP related in any way should not be allowed to play EVE, give them their own 200 slot server so they can cheat without effecting our enjoyment.
TSELLIOT	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:56:00 - [276] Originally by: Kesslar Znel I'm an ex-member of the Aegis Militia, now in Goonswarm. Between this, the rigging of RP events, and the stuff about the ISD guy getting fired- apparently at the request of someone in BoB, this is all pretty disturbing and hits really close to home on all fronts. I haven't really been playing much because of the super-capital situation in 0.0, this might just be it for me. Troo Dat
Kasigi Yabu	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:57:00 - [277] good one
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:57:00 - [278] Originally by: Fiendish Lo Originally by: CCP Arkanon Thank you for your input, we are following this thread and would very much like to ask for your cooperation in verifying some of the statements made, particularly those directly involving CCP staff or volunteers. Please note that we will need some details to be able to investigate, the more the better. I'd be very interested in knowing what Sharkbait and the employee who banned Raekhan have to say about it. Any news? Prolly wont be any.. We get fed garbage and have to resort to outside resources for anything resembeling the truth.
Malverik	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:57:00 - [279] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. "Nah no petition" "msn chat is enough" Amirite!?
Mari Onette	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:58:00 - [280] When you lock down the forums, and people start posting in help about it, banning people is not the right answer. The standard answer in help from ISD and GM's was that help is not the place for discussing this issue. At the same time, you had taken away every ligitimate avenue for us to discuss the alegations. If the forums are down, you get banned for talking about it in local, and you get banned for asking about it in help, where ARE we supposed to go to discuss the alegations? up until now there was no ligitimate method of discussing these events and you were banning people over it. I dont really care if the alegations are true or not, it doesnt effect me. I think this does highlight the fact that eve has reached a point where people with admin rights to the game can no longer be taking part in it, unless you want these PR nightmares to keep happening. As long as GM's have alts in large alliances, people are going to continue to make these sorts of alegations whenever things don't go the way they want, and the masses will continue to take them at face value. Even if there was never any developer or GM misconduct again, you have already lost the trust of your players. I don't see any other way of restoring this trust except for not allowing people with admin rights to the game to play in alliances. Do I think there was misconduct here? Hell yes I do, I've lost trust in you. I have no doubt that GM's powers get abused, but not nearly to the extent that is claimed in the open letter. The letter itself full of hearsay and stinks of someone with a personal ax to grind. but inside every single story there is a grain of truth. In parting, I would like to ask all of you considering leaving the game one simple question I want you all to think hard about... . . . Can I have your stuff?
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:59:00 - [281] Can I haev CCP msn too, plz? I have plenty of things I need to quick petition. No more waiting two weeks for a ship refund! Yeay!
Manta Avoid	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:59:00 - [282] I wouldn't worry about it too much. Let them deal with it. Sure, it's an issue for discussion, but we don't have to be so negative towards the parties involved, just on the rumours we've heard on what's actually happened. Get the facts from the horse's mouth, not someone else's. GG CCP - Manta
Samuel Freedom Minmatar Ramdon Industries corporation	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:59:00 - [283] 'shocking news today we have the alliance BoB cheating ... again' This is old news BoB have had DEV help in the past and will continue to have it as some of the DEV's are not mature enough to seperate 'playing' from there actual job. Really though I have just come to accept it and when it comes to big alliances to much unorthodox DEV input and 'meta gaming' is involved so I doubt I will ever go there. I will stick with small corp and allainces as it seems people in these don't have to much trouble seperating real life and a game . CCP needs to get rid of the self involved DEV's/GM's. I feel sorry for all the STAFF at CCP that work hard and are committed to there jobs but I can just see a conversation like this in 10 years time. ex CCP empoyee going for a job interview at new upcoming gaming company; ex CCP empoyee : So what do you think ? New Boss : It says here you used to work at CCP on EVE-ONLINE, I remember that game it had alot of potential, what happened Robert? ex CCP empoyee : well some DEV's were getting a tad involved to much with playing the game, everybody new at CCP, like an open secret but you don't grass your mates up do you, so I kept my mouth shut didn't rock the boat we had well over 100k of subsribers you know Robert reflects who would of thought they would all join that new sci fi game Eternal Space so quickly New Boss : O.K. let me stop you there Robert ex CCP empoyee : Call me BoB New Boss : No Robert I won't, don't call us we'll call you
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:59:00 - [284] This whole situation is entirely unacceptable. When is Band of Brothers going to be disbanded? They have constantly abused both the rules of the game and the other players who participate in it. They have no respect for dignity, manners or rules - they simply insult, assault and demean other players, both in the game and, more worryingly, in real life (I've heard credible reports of GoonSwarm members getting death threats via email). Band of Brothers should not be. When are you going to get rid of it?
Ronzo Walrus Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:00:00 - [285] Hey look, my post about goons getting forum banned is gone!
Dixon Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:00:00 - [286] Originally by: Scrutt5 your dealing with an fairly intelegent player base
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:00:00 - [287] Disgusting that you think that the monthly fee you pay entitles you to disrupt the gaming of the rest of us. Guess you're really acting like goons. Creating alts to post here and make it appear as if this isn't planned harassment of CCP and us is pathetic. If you don't like CCP or EVE, then don't play the game. No need to act like a spoiled brat and demand special treatment from a company that you've tried your best to blackmail and ruin. If Goonswarm showed as much coordination ingame as they do with their forum and defamation attacks, you'd actually win battles, and maybe not be so miserable that you'd try and pull something off like this.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:01:00 - [288] Originally by: Rebellion Disgusting that you think that the monthly fee you pay entitles you to disrupt the gaming of the rest of us. Guess you're really acting like goons. Creating alts to post here and make it appear as if this isn't planned harassment of CCP and us is pathetic. If you don't like CCP or EVE, then don't play the game. No need to act like a spoiled brat and demand special treatment from a company that you've tried your best to blackmail and ruin. If Goonswarm showed as much coordination ingame as they do with their forum and defamation attacks, you'd actually win battles, and maybe not be so miserable that you'd try and pull something off like this. Just say NO to cheating!
Supermarket Su Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:01:00 - [289] Edited by: Supermarket Su on 26/05/2007 01:00:41 Originally by: Shinigami Back in REALITY we realize that a GM could easily see what's building in a POS without the need to join that corp. oh you do do you ? got personal experience have you ???
Orange Species Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:01:00 - [290] The community is a disgrace to itself. ----------------------------
Sook Mi	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:01:00 - [291] Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Shinigami Back in REALITY we realize that a GM could easily see what's building in a POS without the need to join that corp. We also realize that a GM could easily remove that record if he was doing something wrong. Yeah, because there has never been an incident where a developer got caught cheating after not covering his tracks, oh wai.... Wonder what alliance he was helping that time
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:01:00 - [292] Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. Just say NO to cheating!
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:02:00 - [293] ok , everyone who want to quit , pliz set a contract for my name with all ur stuff - Inturist -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
jeffb GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:03:00 - [294] Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. Much like your posting.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:04:00 - [295] Originally by: Stellar Vix Other than 4000 goons trying to post of the fourms about once little thing a spy in their corp could have gotten just as easily I dont see to much wrong with the shark bait incident. There is evidence the dev did indeed get into thier corp and quit not to much afterwards. Now Sharkbait in a directors positions could have done alot more damage such as screwing with standigns, cancelling jobs, emptying wallets, disbanding the allaince, firing the other two directors so there wouldnt been any evidence in logs. u just an idiot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
Supermarket Su Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:05:00 - [296] Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. hands orange a spare pair of asbestos undies, i fear your rhetorical statement, may, rhetorically bite you in the ass this time dear
Fiendish Lo Eve University	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:05:00 - [297] Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. I didn't quite understand what you mean by that. Can you repeat on MSN instant messaging?
Ronzo Walrus Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:05:00 - [298] Originally by: Rebellion Disgusting that you think that the monthly fee you pay entitles you to disrupt the gaming of the rest of us. Guess you're really acting like goons. Creating alts to post here and make it appear as if this isn't planned harassment of CCP and us is pathetic. If you don't like CCP or EVE, then don't play the game. No need to act like a spoiled brat and demand special treatment from a company that you've tried your best to blackmail and ruin. If Goonswarm showed as much coordination ingame as they do with their forum and defamation attacks, you'd actually win battles, and maybe not be so miserable that you'd try and pull something off like this. How does the forum going down hurt your ability to play eve itself? And I'm sure if super caps were balenced right, the goons would fight back much more effectivly
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:05:00 - [299] Will there be any CCP replies adressing the current situation?
mr unpleasantry	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:06:00 - [300] Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. I'm sorry but isn't your attempt to engage in this discussion slightly misguided and a conflict of interest? If you're wondering the answer is yes. Please redouble your efforts to remain quiet.
Jayder	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:06:00 - [301] Originally by: wylker Sigh, all of my posts are gone. Here I'll try to be more constructive. I don't see how a GM joining a corp is an exploit. If he had to do so to do ANYTHING, it is within his purview. Go ahead, join all the corps. Theres nothing he can't do not in your corp to hurt you that he can do in corp to hurt you. The ISD thing strikes me as someone who messed up, and lost his highly rewarding volunteer position because of it. The rest is bitterness and want for revenge using a mechanism that has already been proven to show half-truths that are designed to discredit a certain alliance and the CCP staff. I'd either stop trying to turn every single thing that you don't agree with into a giant drama bomb or go find another game to play if this one is SO evil and SO corrupt. in thanks, here's a constructive answer, as best as I can manage: GM in corp: 1) possibility for sketchy behavior 2) no communication 3) petitions deleted 4) convos ignored it seems like it would be so easy to notify the CEO if you were going to do something that requires something on the same level as his power. That he didn't wasn't the issue, that he joined the corp isn't neccessarily the issue yet. The issue is that all attempts at obtaining a reasonable explaination were met with silence. It should seem suspicious under any circumstances, it would make sense to CYA in his position. It almost seems like he went out of his way not to. As far as what he can and can't do in corp and out, I'm not familiar with GM powers but that further supports the arguement that if he had a legitimate task he wouldn't have needed to join and grant roles. But again, not familiar with extent of GM powers. ISD issue/thing Whatever happened, what we know for certain is that they were reprimanded by someone with supposedly no authority over them, supported by their superior, and then consequently banned and completely cut off with no explaination given what-so-ever. Even for a volunteer after one and half years thats extremely cold. This is the bottom line, without even talking yet about the possibility of BoB/GM collusion. Once you get in there it starts getting a little dicey. MSN communication with development/GMs? Preferential treatment among paying customers is EXTREMELY unprofessional. Once people start getting the feeling that they're not getting the same thing for their $15 as someone else, they start thinking about an alternative entertainment, or they try to get in on the benefits which just causes more problems. Overall: The reason for the threadnaught was simply that in resolving this the people involved started at the bottom, as they were supposed to. They petitioned, they asked GMs, they were ignored, rejected. Before the forums got spammed a civil and reasonable post was made on the subject, which was immidiately deleted. The fact is that we were moved to our last resort to get attention to this issue, which is in fact not what we wanted to do, despite what a lot of people would have you believe. Are we enjoying it now? sure, we didn't have a choice anyway, why not. Honestly I would say this is more about getting the CCP staff to play fair than to police BoB or any other corporation. In any mmo players are going to stretch the limits of fairness, its up to the GMs to keep it in check and solve problems when they get out of hand. When the GMs themselves cheat, what do you do?
Mahavy Seth Amarr Vure Ultio Animi Causa	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:06:00 - [302] Originally by: Shadow Elk Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. Just say NO to cheating! Years ago I left a game because all players was cheating like mads... and in every online server all was hacking with bots and so on... I joined eve because I was sure that no one can cheat here, and yes, I was right! No player can cheat here... just the devs
Katchoo The Black Guards Solaris Consortium	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:06:00 - [303] Originally by: Ysira GMs, Devs and even most of the ISD people. Of course all those people need access TQ with their special roles and abilities. But they should have no further interest on TQ. [...] All GMs I had contact to were always helpful and friendly and I greatly appreciate their help and the support they bring to EVE. So, albeit you have only had positive experience with the GMs, you have no probems blaing them for something you have no direct experience with. Are you a Slashdotter ? Originally by: Ysira I do not know why Devs need to be able to play the game with their own private characters. [...] If you need to check situations or gameplay on TQ, get your developer account and watch battles or go mine some scordite in Hisec. Ah yes. That's the only part of gameplay we want the Devs to address, no point in having them experience anything else. Originally by: Ysira About GMs: I understand that they need knowledge of the game, the gameplay and such things to resolve issues. Why must this knowledge come from a private char on TQ? Is it not enough to play on Singularity and observing TQ gameplay? Singularity, the mirror of the soul... last time I checked it wasn;t actually thriving with a 10k+ population... Originally by: Ysira AURORA / ISC? Well, flying around in invulnerable ships and observing everything for news purposes. This provides a great deal of metagaming possibilities. No TQ for you, you should have fun with your ISD chars and your events. I knew that the ISD consists of volunteers and that it might not be fair to everyone. But in the end it would be better for the game. Since "no TQ gameplay for volunteers" might well lead to "no more volunteers" I don't see how this can lead to a better game for everyone.
Ozzman Cometh Amarr AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:06:00 - [304] Originally by: Shadow Elk Will there be any CCP replies adressing the current situation? CCP's reply is to delete threatening posts and ban members for pointing out the truth
Cosy Porandor	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:06:00 - [305] CCP Arkanon me and many ppl don't believe u, better resign the job ? IF Ouver will handle this MAYBE MAYBE will trust again in CCP snip - not a appropriate link - hutch hutch is a pet :P hutch now is ?
Kesslar Znel Exegesis Aerospace GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:07:00 - [306] Originally by: Rebellion Disgusting that you think that the monthly fee you pay entitles you to disrupt the gaming of the rest of us. Guess you're really acting like goons. Creating alts to post here and make it appear as if this isn't planned harassment of CCP and us is pathetic. If you don't like CCP or EVE, then don't play the game. No need to act like a spoiled brat and demand special treatment from a company that you've tried your best to blackmail and ruin. If Goonswarm showed as much coordination ingame as they do with their forum and defamation attacks, you'd actually win battles, and maybe not be so miserable that you'd try and pull something off like this. This is pretty blatant and obvious alliance trolling in a thread that has nothing to do with who is fighting whom. It's about strong indications of developer misconduct. As a member of an alliance that has been proven to be involved in past cheating scandals, you should probably keep an eye on what you have to say here, since it's all going to be taken as you protecting your "buds" at CCP, even if it's not true. The fact that you consider allegations of developer misconduct to be harassment of both CCP and your alliance is pretty telling, though.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:07:00 - [307] So now posts are being deleted, asking why Goons are getting banned specifically for posting in this thread. CCP/ISD, you should seriously reconsider your moderation and PR strategy. Moderating to keep content PG is one thing; moderation to cover up moderation, corruption, and fair debate is another.
mr unpleasantry	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:07:00 - [308] Originally by: Shadow Elk Will there be any CCP replies adressing the current situation? It doesn't appear that there will be.
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:07:00 - [309] Originally by: Sen Xia Originally by: Bob Socko If it was just to fix a POS, he would have let the CEO know. If he really did forget, it all could have been cleared up by responding to the petition - rather than deleting the petition outright. I think there is another big lesson to be learned here. The only reason goons had to blitz the forums is because CCP has shown us we have no other viable ways to make these issues heard. If people want this behavior to stop, then CCP needs to figure out a better way to handle its PR disasters that doesn't involve deleting threads and disabling forums. Yes because as we know, you can only spam the Eve-Online forums. EVE players will only know of it if you DOS THE WEBSITE.
Krystian Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:07:00 - [310] Edited by: Krystian on 26/05/2007 01:06:26 Wtf? Get this dam corruption business sorted and guilty people permabanned.
Stoned Celt Bloodnok Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:07:00 - [311] Originally by: Zekk Pacus Originally by: hybridundertaker 3rd bob guys in local vanting about how they can get ccp to do stuff for them is more like a joke (did u notice they name their ship DEVS, u forgot to mention that hard proof) then any proof at all Whilst that may be tongue in cheek, why is that allowed? I'm fairly sure if I did it I'd have someone breathing down my neck...(one of my old corpies nearly got banned for having a name similar (NOT the same) to an NPC, so...) So you think that entitling a thread "CCP Sharkbait is a Douche - With Cheese" is conducive to a constructive debate about the matter? I also had the pleasure of watching several Goons trying to spam the Rookie help channel and being almost totally ignored or scoffed at by the people in there who just got on with trying to enjoy the game. Personally I think the Goon HC have just found the exit strategy they've been looking for. You've discovered you're not going to win, your Alliance is debt ridden, your HC aren't going to be able to pay back the famous war bonds so you blow this event completely out of proportion and will probably threaten to cancel your subscriptions if it is sorted to your satisfaction. Seems the swarm is being led around by the nose by the very people who will benefit most from any eventual Goonswarm mass resignation. No debts to pay back and a nice little 40 billion Titan fund "nest-egg" for someone to play with. Bye Bye Goons
Cpt Placeholder	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:08:00 - [312] I probably wouldn't have believed it, if it wasn't for the fact that they're trying to conceal it this hard.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:08:00 - [313] Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. Considering your name is on the chatlogs in part of this story, could you perhaps comment on that rather than simply voicing your discontentment with every single other eve player? Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Daveydweeb	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:08:00 - [314] Edited by: Daveydweeb on 26/05/2007 01:09:51 Edited by: Daveydweeb on 26/05/2007 01:07:49 The story has been Slashdotted. That means it has now received coverage there, at Digg and IGN
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:09:00 - [315] Appalling behavior on part of CCP employees once again. Really embarrassed for your company. Get your act together.
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:09:00 - [316] Originally by: Biswen Well I think this is the end of EvE for me. I'll stay couple of days to see how CCP handles this, but I've really had enough now. And yes ... you can have my stuff when I quit. Contract it all to me in kisogo please? If you have capitals then just tell me where to pick those up.
kurtFury	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:10:00 - [317] Edited by: kurtFury on 26/05/2007 01:09:57 Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Spam? i think the customers have a right to post there questions and comments on the forums, do you not? i for one did not agree to pay for a game that i have no chance in succeeding at. this issue could be conflicts with the description giving of the game as said in writing on the game front. i think paying customers not only have a right to state there thoughts but also have the right to play in a cheat free atmosphere.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:10:00 - [318] Originally by: Fiendish Lo corporations coming from the forum that made the term "Photoshop Friday" famous. i hate to be the bearer of bad news but that term is not famous - ive never heard of it before you ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Blablabla1	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:10:00 - [319] TBH, of course storyline events are rigged... They are fking rigged because they are scripted. OH NOES THE SIMPSONS IS RIGGED. Get a life.. Seriously though, who cares? BoB cheat? Bob Dont Cheat? Goons cheat? Goons dont cheat? Waaaaaa There is never any RELIABLE proof that ANY wrongdoing has even occured. Yet everyone is so quick to start a witch hunt and blabla on the forums and all blame bob and stuff. If you can Proove that Sharkbait did something wrong in DS1 and you can PROOVE that ISD are corrupt cause they pre-write their events. Then i will remove my post. Until that time, log in to game, go play eve and get over it..
WildAmishRose Caldari Vale Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:11:00 - [320] I don't think anyone should get in trouble at all. If someone cheated, oh well. If I had infinite isk, I'd never go through an 'oh no, I'm broke' episode. Chalk it up to human nature, everyone takes what they want, need, or can lay hands on.
ihk	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:12:00 - [321] Originally by: Rebellion Disgusting that you think that the monthly fee you pay entitles you to disrupt the gaming of the rest of us. Guess you're really acting like goons. Creating alts to post here and make it appear as if this isn't planned harassment of CCP and us is pathetic. If you don't like CCP or EVE, then don't play the game. No need to act like a spoiled brat and demand special treatment from a company that you've tried your best to blackmail and ruin. If Goonswarm showed as much coordination ingame as they do with their forum and defamation attacks, you'd actually win battles, and maybe not be so miserable that you'd try and pull something off like this. kiih of goonfleet, pleased to make your acquintance alts are often due to the smoke screen/anti-spam mass forum bannings and as for the disrupting, i kind of wish we were the ones doing the most of that. at least then we wouldn't have both the isd and developers, while detached from the common playerbase, communicating with the people for whom this game is as much of a job as it is to them
Manta Avoid	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:12:00 - [322] Where's the love? Shut up and play, jebus!
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:13:00 - [323] It just keeps happening... shakes head. Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:13:00 - [324] Originally by: Marquis Dean *What if it's all horsesht and the Goons are just trying to kill the game for some reason or whatever?** If there's more to this that isn't apparent? You're going to throw away two years of work for that? You're pathetic. my sentiments exactly ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:14:00 - [325] So what do the BoB guys think about this? Anyone thinking of quitting over it? Are you all still in denial and ignorance? Or did you all join BoB because you were hoping for an unfair advantage anyway?
luminoll AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:15:00 - [326] you know, I would call for a mass account cancellation to make CCP get it together. but if we did that, we would log back in and BoB would own everthing. So in a way, if youre really angry, theres nothing left to do than to quit playing. We wont have any resolution. What kills me is how much I love EVE.
evil penguin DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:15:00 - [327] The lack of response or even acknowledgement to the 2nd(far more serious) allegation doesnt look good. It makes it seem like CCP are avoiding the issue, which in turn makes it seem more likely that it is true. Please give us an official response to this, even if you dont have much info to share at this time. I dont know anything about this situation but I hope it is not true.
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:15:00 - [328] Originally by: Mahavy Seth CCP Tomorrow Response To All This: BoB POS was bugged in the ion cell augmentaion idrodynamic propeller piston, and need a CCP developer to join the alliance as a director because in no other way we was able to solve the problem. Regarding all other allegations, it seems that some peoples take great delight to uncover what they think it is true. The fact that BoB is always involved is merely an unlicky event. We close this topic and we will ban everyone will again talk about this. Your post isn't exactly funny. I think some people are taking a game to far, lighten up.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:15:00 - [329] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. Considering your name is on the chatlogs in part of this story, could you perhaps comment on that rather than simply voicing your discontentment with every single other eve player? You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Borasatar	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:16:00 - [330] So what exactly is my motivation to go to 0.0 space again when it seems that CCP allows corrupt devs to play the game in god mode so if you aren't in their alliance, you're just fodder?
Jarah Tatarin Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:16:00 - [331] Just a question, if CCP is right, how many of you will say sorry? I for one trust CCP before I get concrete evidence that tells me not to trust them. Im not a rasist, I got a color Teve!
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:16:00 - [332] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi everyone. Thank you for your input, we are following this thread and would very much like to ask for your cooperation in verifying some of the statements made, particularly those directly involving CCP staff or volunteers. Please note that we will need some details to be able to investigate, the more the better. Our direct email address is [email protected] We will investigate the allegations made in this thread and update the playerbase as we can. This is a holiday weekend, as luck would have it, but we'll do what we can. I predict that you'll find a lot of smoke, mirrors, and noise, and very little fact or proof. The FACT is that CCP has been banning accounts for LINKING A PAGE The FACT is that there are Chat logs of people IN EVE saying they have means of DIRECT communication to the developers. The FACT is there are chat logs of people THREATENING ISD pilots because they wouldn't listen. The FACT is something like this has happened before so it's no unprecedented. The FACT is that EVERYONE (MC, Aftermth, BoB themselves...) who's posted AGAINST the allegations is in a favorable position with BoB or is a little empire n00b. The FACT is that CCP acknowledges it's developers plays the game which gives rise to a whole basket of possible problems. Imagine how f*cked the US stock market would be if the Chairman of the Federal Reserve could invest in the stock market? People who can directly affect (for better or worse), in a LARGE way, systems are restricted from doing so in one way or another.
Kaylana Syi The Nest	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:17:00 - [333] Why would you use Sharkbait fixing a bug to use information to once again try to destroy CCP. The whole BoD thing is old. We all know T20 cheated and it would be business suicide to allow cheating in this game. Band of Brothers have re-entered the community, via low profile on EVE-O and having officials on those on the Team Minmatar to heal that reputation. If you got beef with the game mechanics then join the club. If you can't beat BoB in space then quit the game or turtle up until it changes. Its quite obvious that you don't care for EVE if you continue to disrupt the community and its services. Even if this is found to be an example of cheating you have handled it in a horrid way. Team Minmatar
bigfatbird New Justice Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:18:00 - [334] Oh well I wish I could say that I am surprised by this but sadly I cant.
8 D	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:18:00 - [335] How about some democracy? Ban all involved ISD and fire any CCP employees Ban all item recepients for a 6month period. Victims are too many to count. - They've been raped.
MagicCommander United Task Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:18:00 - [336] Some persons doesnt stand for all persons. CCP did do a good job in making the game and put alot of effort into it, but sometimes acts/events do get in the way of that good creation. I love the game and always will.
Gorfob	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:18:00 - [337] Edited by: Gorfob on 26/05/2007 01:20:24 I have been in this game for just under 2 months. I am a member of Goonfleet. Some say we are the most hated people in EvE. When I started I had missed all the drama and I actually refused to believe that the dev's of any game would interfere in such a way. I even went out of my way to ask all sorts of questions and it didn't seem to make sense why. Now I know. All it does is fuel the anger. No doubt I will be banned after posting this for just being a member of Goonfleet. But hey more fuel for the fire. MORE SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE. Oh yeah. Siddy is a furry.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:18:00 - [338] Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming.
jeffb GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:19:00 - [339] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Exactly what aspects of your gaming are being disrupted? t2 production
Buttercup Sedai	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:20:00 - [340] It just made the front page of Slashdot as well. I somehow don't think people will read it and click on the banner ads though :lol: http://slashdot.org/
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:20:00 - [341] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:20:00 - [342] Originally by: KeratinBoy Dear CCP, I realize that the publishing of Goonfleets open letter has caused your weekend to be ruined. Two days of non-work fun gone down the drain is depressing. However, the players of Eve would like some response addressing their concerns about the following: 1) The rigging of RP events. Why bother Rping if your contributions are going to be ignored if you are not from a favoured alliance? See also "railroading". Because i get bored with all this stupidity that runs around. Graelyn who proclaims to be a big RP person most probably hasn't been RP anywhere else other than EVE-Online. Or else he would be aware that the storyline is always outlined (with a certain sense of liberty to change the ending according to actions of the players) by the DUNGEON MASTER. Any RPG session that respects itself (and has a semi competent DM) has this storyline where the players are there to unfold a plot that already exists in the mind (or scripts) of the DM. So the rigging that Graelyn is talking about (with the exception of some mischiefs another member did) are in fact the outlining of the plot and where the DUNGEON MASTER (CCP in this case) wants to lead the storyline. It's perfectly logical for this to exist. And some around here fail to grasp that simple logic. Trying to raise a fuss about it only shows how ignorant you are, and how much venom you keep in your mouth trying to spit it all over not considering where and why. As for the whole deal with him getting the ban from ISD i am sorry to hear that and i would expect that somehow CCP will make sure that none of the personnel hired by CCP is abusing (and/or being abused by players that know him/her) his powers over anything. And someone who said about the Dread being in siege mode. Hey the letter says nothing about that only that he double checked that he didn't bump it. Also 1ft away is never a good idea since that means 0m and in fact can be considered bumping, i guess. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Kriz Lupin North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:22:00 - [343] Originally by: Jarah Tatarin Just a question, if CCP is right, how many of you will say sorry? I for one trust CCP before I get concrete evidence that tells me not to trust them. Thanks. Now you know when this goes onto public forums eve will die slowly, good job...hope you are proud. CCP, get your act sorted NOW. This is the second time it has been made known you are fixing your own game. You really need to sort this, you have already lost 5k players in prime time. This is going to go public yet again, and you will get no new players....this sucks Keep eve alive and stop being such idiots.
Arl GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:24:00 - [344] I'll be interested to read the offical response to all the points raised.
Stoned Celt Bloodnok Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:24:00 - [345] Originally by: Poolpy Originally by: Daveydweeb Edited by: Daveydweeb on 26/05/2007 01:09:51 Edited by: Daveydweeb on 26/05/2007 01:07:49 The story has been Slashdotted. That means it has now received coverage there, at Digg and IGN \o/ yay, front page on slashdot, gg CCP. Continue like this, and your customer will be only farmer and BoB player! I find it disturbing that you find that this is something to celebrate. You only seem interested in destroying what is essentially a great game.
Jirad TiSalver Caldari 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:24:00 - [346] This sucks. As a player that's been in even since beta, I'm canceling all accounts. these things happen to often in eve for there not to be some element of truth.
Sen Xia GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:26:00 - [347] Edited by: Sen Xia on 26/05/2007 01:28:40 Edited by: Sen Xia on 26/05/2007 01:27:46 Edited by: Sen Xia on 26/05/2007 01:27:03 Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. This almost makes you guys look completly innocent because if I were cheating I would NEVER EVER EVER tell people that myself and many of my corpmates are personal friends with the developers of the game. Because it's one thing to say that devs are in bob and help them. But its a whole new can of worms to say that members of bob are good friends with CCP developers and that this in no way could possible represent a conflict of interest. I mean really. I just can't imagine how your post, especially in this thread, was in anyway a good idea in regards to Bob PR.
Zingo Aleig	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:28:00 - [348] We all love eve, or else we wouldn't be here paying to play. In no other MMO have I seen developers actively involved with characters in the worlds they develop. Why? They know how everything runs, tricks, and there is a great deal of opportunities to give themselves an unfair advantage. I believe that, although it would suck horribly for those developers that have worked hard and played the game since the beginning, this rule should be upheld as well in Eve. I think that the life of the company is infinitely more important than the developers being able to play the game. Just my opinion.
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:28:00 - [349] Originally by: Dianabolic Stuff Youve lied to many times to be trusted. Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Kesslar Znel Exegesis Aerospace GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:29:00 - [350] Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. There is no problem with devs having friends in alliances. (Though when a CCP developer post on the Goonfleet forums once, he was told to cut all contact... but that's a different story for another time.) I'm fine with that, I'm a game developer myself and if I got a job at CCP I'd hate to have to stop talking to my friends who also play EVE. I have friends at Blizzard who, similarly, still talk to me, even though I occasionally play WoW and my roommate is a member of the Elitist Jerks. That's cool, daddy-o. The apparent difference, though, is that if I contacted my friends at Blizzard and asked for free stuff, heads up on what's going to be in the Black Temple, or for the firing of a GM, I'd be told, with the deadly seriousness that is usually reserved for the death of a family member, "Dude, I can't do that, I'd lose my job." That's apparently not the case at CCP, and that's a shame, because they've got a better game than Blizzard does.
Nadarius Chrome Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:29:00 - [351] Good to see plenty of people who obviously have zero knowledge of the whole affair beyond what they've read in this thread piping up with what they thought happened. I'd love to be able to confidently say CCP will tell us what's going on, but history doesn't favor that as the likely option. Arkanon: There had better be some EXTREMELY thorough explanations coming. The first scandal may have caused a dip in subscriptions. This one will kill Eve for many many people. __________ The opinion(s) expressed above are mine alone and are not necessarily endorsed or supported by my Corporation or Alliance.
Ela Deldora	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:30:00 - [352] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. Considering your name is on the chatlogs in part of this story, could you perhaps comment on that rather than simply voicing your discontentment with every single other eve player? You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). That's strange. No one I know of in any other alliances have direct communications with the Developers on a regular basis. I can say for a fact that I know Goonfleet does not. You would think that an alliance 5 times the size of yours would find bugs at least equally as quickly as yours does, if not faster... no? Interestingly enough, when we want to get the Developers attention we have to write a ~30 page "Manifesto" before it even gets acknowledged. Or, you know, we could always post a thread about something and then have it get deleted and then have to "spam" the forums.
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:30:00 - [353] Edited by: Muff Joos on 26/05/2007 01:30:15 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. T^hat's the second time you've said that BoB has a special friendship with the devs. I thankyou again for confirming it.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:31:00 - [354] Originally by: Sen Xia Originally by: Shinigami Back in REALITY we realize that a GM could easily see what's building in a POS without the need to join that corp. Here is your homework for tonight. Take your post, and then put it into conversation with the allegations that are being made in the open letter, NOT the stupid rabble you see in this thread. Find in that open letter where we are complaining that a GM cheated to figure out what was building inside of a POS. You shouldn't be able to. Do you know why? BECAUSE YOU ENTIRELY MISSED THE POINT OF OUR COMPLAINT AND HAVE FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THE LETTER POST, just like a whole bunch of your corpmates and other worthless pubbies on this stupid forum. Because you have demostrated to eve-o that you can't exercise basic reading comprehension, you really should refrain from posting here. Maybe consider night school? Nope , it's ur homework for tonight , and its u who MISSED THE POINT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
George Costanza Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:31:00 - [355] I especially like the fact that BoD has contact with Devs through MSN and CCP doesn't even talk about that. CCP, account will be cancelled at the end of my current GTC, only way to get you to listen...and my corp is getting my stuff so don't ask.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:32:00 - [356] Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. It seems that BoB are the only Devs friends Oh really? Seleene doesn't speak to the dev team? Virtuozzo? TRIGGER never did? How about CYVOK? All of those people have Dev (and higher) contacts on their msn. What do you have to say to that? Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Poke InTheEye Anti-BoB Flash Mob	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:32:00 - [357] Edited by: Poke InTheEye on 26/05/2007 01:33:06 So when does my corp get it's own dev friend to chat with about game mechanics and up and coming patches/changes and who knows what else? Seriously, I can think of a few times when IMing a dev would have solved quite a few problems for us. Having devs in your pocket creates a HUGELY unfair advantage that possibly you cant understand having never been on the other side of that coin. Comments like, hey, sell your t2 bpos now because invention is coming, or train these skills so that you will be ready for x can make a huge difference in the outcome of an event. Admitting you have conversations with devs about game mechanics is admitting "WE HAVE AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE IN THIS GAME". NO BOB!!!!
MetalZero Minmatar Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:32:00 - [358] Under the carpet is FULL ... they must find another place ___________ ThunderCats
Shinjuro ToXiC. Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:33:00 - [359] you have got to be kidding me.. This crap again? What is this, the third legit accusation @ dev misconduct? Hell even CCP can't deny this one. LOGS FTW!
Nicolas Tesla	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:33:00 - [360] Originally by: Arl I'll be interested to read the offical response to all the points raised.
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:33:00 - [361] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Marquis Dean *What if it's all horsesht and the Goons are just trying to kill the game for some reason or whatever? If there's more to this that isn't apparent? You're going to throw away two years of work for that? You're pathetic. my sentiments exactly Aww, and to think I tried to get you banned. --- Originally by:** Blacklight To be honest
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:33:00 - [362] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. It seems that BoB are the only Devs friends Oh really? Seleene doesn't speak to the dev team? Virtuozzo? TRIGGER never did? How about CYVOK? All of those people have Dev (and higher) contacts on their msn. What do you have to say to that? They shouldn't.
Wandarna	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:34:00 - [363] Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. If you are so disapointed from the community, then please, just leave. I am thinking about ending my account and it is not because i do not like eve anymore, but it is because of this unbeleavable things that seem to happen. CCP please stop your employees to interfere with the game, or you will lose many customers, at least you will lose me.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:34:00 - [364] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? You don't see there being any problem with members of your alliance being close friends with game developers? You don't see there being a problem with you using that friendship to help your members during conflicts and get members of staff fired? Can you not even see why such relationships would be viewed very sceptically by other players? If it interferes with internal stuff, ofc there is a problem. If that is the case then yes, something is wrong. But you're trying to villify us for just KNOWING them. Can YOU not see there is something wrong with that? Quote: Originally by: Dianabolic Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? We don't have the same intimate ties to the developers you do so we're not privy to such information, sorry. It's hard to keep abreast of who is responsible for fixing which bugs when you don't have the luxury of daily chats with CCP employees. And what difference does it make to your gaming experience WHO fixes / contributes to fixing bugs? None? Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Enaria Ferenic Amarr Ordo Ministorum	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:34:00 - [365] DEV misconduct/cheating/odd goings on....surely i've heard of this before??? As has been posted numerous times before...this thread will be allowed to grow for 24-28 hours and then it will be locked with some banal statement from CCP. We (the people who actually pay for the game and give the DEV's such an interesting playground), deserve better than this. DEV's/GM need to be whiter than white in their behaviour and totally above suspicion. With DEV's active in major alliances and a long history of odd GM/DEV related 'incidents', it is only natural that the player base is once again annoyed and dismayed by what looks like a total lack of regard and respect by CCP for them.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:34:00 - [366] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. Considering your name is on the chatlogs in part of this story, could you perhaps comment on that rather than simply voicing your discontentment with every single other eve player? You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). Just say NO to cheating! Shame on you nber cheater!
Sen Xia GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:38:00 - [367] Originally by: Dianabolic Seleene doesn't speak to the dev team? Virtuozzo? TRIGGER never did? How about CYVOK? All of those people have Dev (and higher) contacts on their msn. What do you have to say to that? 1.)That the possibility of developer conflict of interest has been proven before. 2.)That this thread seems to suggest it is still a problem. 3.)That you have come into this thread and have further supported our argument that there exists a conflict of interest between CCP developers and major entities of 0.0 So please, keep posting because you are really just making Bob and CCP look bad.
Acabou Se	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:38:00 - [368] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? You don't see there being any problem with members of your alliance being close friends with game developers? You don't see there being a problem with you using that friendship to help your members during conflicts and get members of staff fired? Can you not even see why such relationships would be viewed very sceptically by other players? If it interferes with internal stuff, ofc there is a problem. If that is the case then yes, something is wrong. But you're trying to villify us for just KNOWING them. Can YOU not see there is something wrong with that? Quote: Originally by: Dianabolic Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? We don't have the same intimate ties to the developers you do so we're not privy to such information, sorry. It's hard to keep abreast of who is responsible for fixing which bugs when you don't have the luxury of daily chats with CCP employees. And what difference does it make to your gaming experience WHO fixes / contributes to fixing bugs? None? Please, keep posting. The hole you are digging yourself into is quite humorous. That hourly spawning 10/10 complex bug in your space sure did take a while to "fix".
Fray Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:38:00 - [369] Does anyone else find this really quite sad that all the posts are still split down the usual lines. Whatever the outcome, its fascinating/depressing to watch. On another note, I'm sure there are a bunch of people like me, who really aren't that bothered about the goings on - and just accept there will be misdeeds done on all sides eventually. What's really the problem is how everyone is always such*****s about it. BoBites just come out full of arrogance and spouting crap like 'they're only doing it cos they're losing/beat/dead/broke' and the other side is just 'omg BoD!"ú?!ú?!ú?!' - it'd just be nice if everyone would be a bit more civil and thoughtful, maybe the boards wouldn't make me what to break down and pray for mass genocide :/ Pointless I know, but then reading #e-o for many hours tonight has killed many braincells. - <@Cf'DigitalCommunist> D2, if you go to za'ha'delve, you will die. -
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:38:00 - [370] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic Stuff Youve lied to many times to be trusted. Proof or stfu. Just say NO to cheating!
Jarryn Kell	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:38:00 - [371] Look, the fact of the matter is that this whole episode is symptomatic. I've only been playing this game for a couple of months, and already seen more allegations and evidence of developer misconduct than in the entire 20+ other years I've been playing games. From WWIV door games to MUDs to UO EQ and up through today, I've never even considered that such things as this would be an issue, for one simple reason: this kind of stuff KILLS games, KILLS companies. And CCP has allowed it to happen. As far as I'm concerned, whatever the truth of this, to even have these things come up AT ALL is a failure of leadership at the highest levels. And pretty sad, as I like this game, and am most likely going to quit over it.
Nicolas Tesla	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:39:00 - [372] why are you ignoring the Raekhan stuff? Why can BoB summon Admiral CHarmarjarajhkjshdf to fire ISD at will?
luminoll AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:39:00 - [373] Quote: You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? have you guys ever heard of ethics? This is a harsh game. No player can be friends with anyone who might give them an advantage. Its a conflict of interest. Even if this is all BS, CCP screwed themselves but allowing employees to fraternize with players.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:39:00 - [374] Originally by: Dianabolic All of those people have Dev (and higher) contacts on their msn. What do you have to say to that? It seem that you are quite sure about that, proof of stfu.
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:39:00 - [375] It saddens me to say that I've run into two occasions where I'm almost certain a dev or GM was assisting BoB and their lackeys. The first was during the F-T siege where CCP imposed a 700-player cap without telling anyone (except BoB, it seems), resulting in us jumping 200-odd capitals into the system and our support fleet being unable to even attempt to fulfill their role - they couldn't even jumnp into the system. The second was when we moved into Fountain to attack Xelas (who hold the area for BoB). We put three POS in BYXF into reinforced, and when they came out 3 days later it was at FULL shields. Xelas was even able to put in more strontium, allowing them to go right back into reinforced. There was definitely no chance for Xelas to use shield transporters to recharge the shields - the 5 minutes between them coming out of reinforced and our capital gang sieging them wouldn't have been long enough to get anywhere near full shields; moreover, one of our allies, a SNIGG pilot, was in a covops an WATCHING as reinforced ended. There have been a number of other instances where I suspected something was amiss, but I'm almost certain of these two. I sincerely hope that the recent outcries have been heard and that CCP gives the state of their game and their relationship with the playerbase a good, hard look. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:39:00 - [376] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? You don't see there being any problem with members of your alliance being close friends with game developers? You don't see there being a problem with you using that friendship to help your members during conflicts and get members of staff fired? Can you not even see why such relationships would be viewed very sceptically by other players? If it interferes with internal stuff, ofc there is a problem. If that is the case then yes, something is wrong. But you're trying to villify us for just KNOWING them. Can YOU not see there is something wrong with that? Quote: Originally by: Dianabolic Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? We don't have the same intimate ties to the developers you do so we're not privy to such information, sorry. It's hard to keep abreast of who is responsible for fixing which bugs when you don't have the luxury of daily chats with CCP employees. And what difference does it make to your gaming experience WHO fixes / contributes to fixing bugs? None? Could you please change the name of your alliance to "Band of Bunch of Really Great Guys who are only on msn ingame talking to Devs while fighting you to help with bug fixes."
Edwin VonPoopenScoop	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:40:00 - [377] CCP, you ask us for our trust. I ask you why should we trust you? The people who are in charge of keeping the game fair have a vested intrest in keeping their alts corp powerful. This is a conflict of interest pure and simple and it must end. I realise that eve is your game too, and that you want to be able to play it and have fun with all of us, and we would like you to be able to do so as well but this cannot continue. It MUST end or you will kill your golden goose. The simple fact is that with the current system there will continue to be misconduct by paid employees of CCP. Perhaps it is not malicious, but access to the knowledge and power that GM's, devs have WILL be abused. It's a part of human nature to use their own knowledge to benefit themselves, and that does not change no matter how nice of a person you are.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:40:00 - [378] This is why you do not recruit your employees from your player base and allow them to retain their status as active participants in player groups who can and will come into conflict with other player groups. Blizzard, for example handles employee cheating and misconduct correctly. They fire employees who transgress instead of trying to make it disappear. The funny part is that GM cheating in WoW has almost no impact on other player's game experiences (dying in pvp barely matters) while any cheating or information sharing in EVE can have massive impact on hundreds of players due to the player driven nature of EVE itself. So why does blizzard handle it professionally and CCP not? Has it gotten to the point where too many of the CCP employees and volunteers were recruited from the players? If so, there needs to be some serious restructuring. Certain people need to take a step back and have a critical look at what they are doing and what effect it is having on a game that thousands of people are trying to enjoy fairly.
BuyN Sell	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:40:00 - [379] Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So you have a direct method of contact to CCP to fix bugs? Does this method bypass the petition system? If so don't you think this constitutes a significant advantage that the "normal" player base does not get? The fact that a "normal" player base and some sort of priveleged friends of CCP player base exists is terrible. Blacklight during the last scandal you knowingly permitted CCP employees to stay in your corporation. Your words on this matter are the last that anyone should listen to. You have no credibility left and have not for a long time.
Zindzhi	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:40:00 - [380] Okay, I want to quit and get a full refund for time played. I feel completely cheated by CCP, and this invalidates all time, money and effort spent on Eve. Who do I contact for my refund? Thanks. PS: CCP: Grow some professionalism. You have utterly disqualified yourself, for the last time. Thanks.
Kesslar Znel Exegesis Aerospace GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:41:00 - [381] Originally by: Dianabolic If it interferes with internal stuff, ofc there is a problem. If that is the case then yes, something is wrong. But you're trying to villify us for just KNOWING them. Can YOU not see there is something wrong with that? The problem is that apparently it did cause a problem and got an ISD guy banned. I know a lot of people here think that there should be an iron curtain between CCP and the players. I don't think there should be. But it certainly appears that it goes beyond that. But right, that could never happen because of NDAs, they'd loose their job, "proof or stfu", etc. Could never ever ever (t20) ever happen. Could it?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:41:00 - [382] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/05/2007 01:40:28 Originally by: Wrayeth It saddens me to say that I've run into two occasions where I'm almost certain a dev or GM was assisting BoB and their lackeys. The first was during the F-T siege where CCP imposed a 700-player cap without telling anyone (except BoB, it seems), resulting in us jumping 200-odd capitals into the system and our support fleet being unable to even attempt to fulfill their role - they couldn't even jumnp into the system. Local never exceeded 500 in F-TE, as far as I know. The cap was a myth made up by the Coalition. Yes, the lag was absolutely absurd, but there was no cap as anyone who got in the system can tell you. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:42:00 - [383] Edited by: Shadow Elk on 26/05/2007 01:42:12 Adress the Raekhan situation would you? Then adress the fiddeling with goons.. Bout damn time anything that didnt smell of menour came out of ccp.
luminoll AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:43:00 - [384] CCP allowing fraternization with players. See thats the problem. The damage is done.
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:43:00 - [385] Originally by: Stoned Celt Originally by: Poolpy Originally by: Daveydweeb Edited by: Daveydweeb on 26/05/2007 01:09:51 Edited by: Daveydweeb on 26/05/2007 01:07:49 The story has been Slashdotted. That means it has now received coverage there, at Digg and IGN \o/ yay, front page on slashdot, gg CCP. Continue like this, and your customer will be only farmer and BoB player! I find it disturbing that you find that this is something to celebrate. You only seem interested in destroying what is essentially a great game. When drastic change is needed, drastic steps must be taken. What you're failing to realize is that the majority of people who play eve LOVE eve. It's a one of a kind game. It's visually amazing, tactically stimulating, and unfortunately as rigged as Vegas. What the Goons have done is back CCP into a wall where it's only option is to acknowledge that there is a problem, resolve it, and regain the trust of the player-base and the general public, or deny it/cover it up and lose all it's gone so far to gain. Consider this a revolution of sorts. Watch V for Vendetta if you still can't understand.
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:43:00 - [386] The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. Or at the real world angle to the gaming activities of the people you ally yourselves with. Why am I not surprised that SA goons have also started spamming sladhdot and digg too? If you're really interested in the truth, you'd wait for CCP to post their side before spamming this all over the place. You would even be able to wait until CCP says something that you supposedly have "proof" otherwise, and make them look all the more like liars. But no, it's much better to raise hell and get as much attention as you can, and keep spamming the allegations for the off chance that people that read take it at face value, you'd even create these people if you had to, if only to make it appear that 3rd party individuals actually do believe something wrong is going on. If you really hated how CCP run EVE for legitimate reasons, you'd just quit and stop paying them. But no, you have a real axe to grind, and want to take the game down. It's not enough that you stop paying CCP for their game, you want other people to stop paying too, so that CCP gets hurt more. Would you get geek cred by being able to claim that you pwned EVE? Most of you play this game because of a desire to ridicule the stereotype of the playerbase, just like what you did with Second Life. At this point, I don't know of CCP even thinks it's worth putting up with goon antics just for their monthly subscriptions. Perhaps goons anticipate that too, and thus want to make their monthy subscription worth more in that they would seek to influence other players to make their pressure group weigh more in the eyes of CCP. At any rate, when you do leave EVE, I hope it would be after your fleets learn to focus fire on primaries. It requires the same discipline as copying and pasting the same text all over the forums.
KeratinBoy	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:43:00 - [387] Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra Any RPG session that respects itself (and has a semi competent DM) has this storyline where the players are there to unfold a plot that already exists in the mind (or scripts) of the DM. True, to a given value of true. PCs will always do the unexpected, as any competent GM knows. Quote: So the rigging that Graelyn is talking about (with the exception of some mischiefs another member did) are in fact the outlining of the plot and where the DUNGEON MASTER (CCP in this case) wants to lead the storyline. It's perfectly logical for this to exist. And some around here fail to grasp that simple logic. True. That is where they would like to see the storyline lead but rigged is not the same as guided. Quote: Trying to raise a fuss about it only shows how ignorant you are, and how much venom you keep in your mouth trying to spit it all over not considering where and why. An irrelevant personal attack. Quote: As for the whole deal with him getting the ban from ISD i am sorry to hear that and i would expect that somehow CCP will make sure that none of the personnel hired by CCP is abusing (and/or being abused by players that know him/her) his powers over anything. Ideally true. Quote: And someone who said about the Dread being in siege mode. Hey the letter says nothing about that only that he double checked that he didn't bump it. Also 1ft away is never a good idea since that means 0m and in fact can be considered bumping, i guess. Possibly, although CCP have an horrendous track-record in these matters.
Dyeadmheet Caldari Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:43:00 - [388] The sad fact here is that this kind of distrust with CCP is going to continue until everyone who's a developer or has any kind of special access to the database or anything within the game is disallowed from playing it. I hate to say that since I'd like to be a developer if I could, and I'd still want to play, but there's just no way to really resolve all of this and still allow developers to play the game. There's a deep conflict of interests here and everyone knows it. The problems are NOT going to go away until the conflict of interests is removed. As long as the conflict of interests continues, distrust and suspicion will continue. No amount of reassuring PR talk is going to make any real difference. Really, people don't need access to the database to abuse their privileges as developers. The simple knowledge of the invention success rate function would allow one to make a MASSIVE profit especially before the restrictions on datacores were removed.
Aramark Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:44:00 - [389] well after being banned for all week for asking questions about something simlar in the week. i'm afraid to add more than that cus i think CCP will premaban all my accounts....... CCP is bob bob is CCP this has been known for months. and CCP will not do anything about it. --------------------------------------------------- "Roses are red, Violets are blue, I'm a developer, are you one too?"
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:47:00 - [390] Edited by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on 26/05/2007 01:46:42 Originally by: Vozzek Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. You received preferential treatment from CCP and your best excuse is that you are friends with them? I'll have to keep that one in mind if I'm ever accused of rigging a game in my favor in collusion with the people running the game as, "but they were my friends!" seems like a totally airtight defense. If you can't see why this amounts to a total lack of professionalism on CCP's part I don't know what to say to you. Enjoy your delusion, I guess. Hey, listen, the Bush Administration may have made some corrupt deals with Halliburton, but a lot of them are friends! It's totally ok!
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:47:00 - [391] Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. Or at the real world angle to the gaming activities of the people you ally yourselves with. Why am I not surprised that SA goons have also started spamming sladhdot and digg too? If you're really interested in the truth, you'd wait for CCP to post their side before spamming this all over the place. You would even be able to wait until CCP says something that you supposedly have "proof" otherwise, and make them look all the more like liars. But no, it's much better to raise hell and get as much attention as you can, and keep spamming the allegations for the off chance that people that read take it at face value, you'd even create these people if you had to, if only to make it appear that 3rd party individuals actually do believe something wrong is going on. If you really hated how CCP run EVE for legitimate reasons, you'd just quit and stop paying them. But no, you have a real axe to grind, and want to take the game down. It's not enough that you stop paying CCP for their game, you want other people to stop paying too, so that CCP gets hurt more. Would you get geek cred by being able to claim that you pwned EVE? Most of you play this game because of a desire to ridicule the stereotype of the playerbase, just like what you did with Second Life. At this point, I don't know of CCP even thinks it's worth putting up with goon antics just for their monthly subscriptions. Perhaps goons anticipate that too, and thus want to make their monthy subscription worth more in that they would seek to influence other players to make their pressure group weigh more in the eyes of CCP. At any rate, when you do leave EVE, I hope it would be after your fleets learn to focus fire on primaries. It requires the same discipline as copying and pasting the same text all over the forums. Stop embarressing yourself, its only a game, just say NO to cheating!
Kesslar Znel Exegesis Aerospace GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:47:00 - [392] Originally by: Rebellion quick guys, there's a fire, mention gtc sales and what awful, awful people goons are divert divert divert
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:48:00 - [393] Edited by: Mithrantir Ob''lontra on 26/05/2007 01:47:32 Originally by: Buttercup Sedai Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra So the rigging that Graelyn is talking about (with the exception of some mischiefs another member did) are in fact the outlining of the plot and where the DUNGEON MASTER (CCP in this case) wants to lead the storyline. It's perfectly logical for this to exist. And some around here fail to grasp that simple logic. It's not logic - they had a contest (in this case a scavenger hunt) and gave the list of items to who they wanted to win beforehand, then rewarded them with a mothership. If CCP would have just given them the ship that would be one thing, but how many people's time/effort did they waste by rigging the contest? If you can't perceive the difference, go look up the word "fixed" as it relates to sporting events and come back. In case you're too lazy, I'll just tell you what it means... It's cheating. First of all read the open letter. Secondly try to understand it, i did and English is not my first language, so i guess you can too. It specifically talks about the Tetrimon arc and Miriam cheating on it, followed by the statement that the head of AURORA send him the whole scenario which in the end was saying that they wanted a specific side to prevail. Unless you can't understand English there was no mention of the Mothership event (which may as well have been rigged, but i don't know and honestly is not my task to clear that out) or any other event. If you want to spin what Graelyn is saying try to do it in a more clever way at least and not by shooting yourself in the foot. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Tinky Winkey	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:48:00 - [394] Originally by: Rebellion Disgusting that you think that the monthly fee you pay entitles you to disrupt the gaming of the rest of us. Guess you're really acting like goons. Creating alts to post here and make it appear as if this isn't planned harassment of CCP and us is pathetic. If you don't like CCP or EVE, then don't play the game. No need to act like a spoiled brat and demand special treatment from a company that you've tried your best to blackmail and ruin. If Goonswarm showed as much coordination ingame as they do with their forum and defamation attacks, you'd actually win battles, and maybe not be so miserable that you'd try and pull something off like this. Paying good money to CCP and not having a level field of play is what is disgusting. Its not a question of liking CCP but one of trusting them and its obvious to all but the mentally challenged that people like Eve or they wouldn't play! It makes no difference what coordination you have ingame you will not win battles that are heavily weighed against you and not just in the regards to numbers or skills ! I find it interesting that it only seems to be Bob and members of their allies that think there is no problem with this type of behaviour !! I am not saying that all these allegations are true but all accusations of wrongdoing always lead back to the same alliance.Coincidence ?? let each decide on their own.
luminoll AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:48:00 - [395] fraternization between CCP employees and players should not be allowed and strictly enforced. This policy would have avoided this.
Hallowed Point State War Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:48:00 - [396] Whatever the nature of the relationship between members of BoB and CCP employees, it is wildly inappropriate to use that relationship to pursue any ingame goal. Pleading friendship doesn't make it right.
Driven Caldari Mass Produced Venturi Starea	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:49:00 - [397] Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi everyone. Thank you for your input, we are following this thread and would very much like to ask for your cooperation in verifying some of the statements made, particularly those directly involving CCP staff or volunteers. Please note that we will need some details to be able to investigate, the more the better. Our direct email address is [email protected] We will investigate the allegations made in this thread and update the playerbase as we can. This is a holiday weekend, as luck would have it, but we'll do what we can. Hi Arkanon I'm hopeful you guys will be able to really give this one the full looksee, and provide a seriously long and detailed explanation to the player community. I really like this game. I've played it for 4 years now with multiple accounts and I'd hate for the negative publicity this latest event is causing to hurt the game's reputation. In case you guys haven't noticed, this news is flying around the internet on a number of gaming websites and blogger sites like wildfire. I'd recommend you wake up the boss, bring in some extra crew and pay some serious attention to it, or by Tuesday CCP may have lost the opportunity to repair the damage. I don't know who's right or who's not, but this kind of thing sure hurts T2 sales when experienced players quit, you know? Best regards, Driven Part of the evil Tech 2 BPO cartel
Cz Fia Caldari Kobol Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:49:00 - [398] cancle your accounts..
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:49:00 - [399] Originally by: Midgath Stallsman Being friends with CCP still not explain how a "friend" can get ISD agents fired at will. Indeed it does not, and if that IS the case then something is indeed, as I (and many others) have already said, there is something wrong. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Zylatis Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:49:00 - [400] Edited by: Zylatis on 26/05/2007 01:48:57 This just proves that BoB/CCP are nothing more than a bunch of mafia thugs. its pathetic.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:49:00 - [401] Originally by: Arthur Miller Blacklight if I need an urgent petition answered quickly can I get your MSN? msn -> [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:49:00 - [402] Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. As your buddy said earlier. "Proof or STFU."
squidgee GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:49:00 - [403] Originally by: Arthur Miller Blacklight if I need an urgent petition answered quickly can I get your MSN? I could really use some dev MSNs too. I've got a couple of **** reimbursements I'd like chat about.
Enaria Ferenic Amarr Ordo Ministorum	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:49:00 - [404] Originally by: Vozzek Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. You received preferential treatment from CCP and your best excuse is that you are friends with them? I'll have to keep that one in mind if I'm ever accused of rigging a game in my favor in collusion with the people running the game as, "but they were my friends!" seems like a totally airtight defense. If you can't see why this amounts to a total lack of professionalism on CCP's part I don't know what to say to you. Enjoy your delusion, I guess. JFC....has this Dianabolic loon ever heard about 'chinese walls', has CCP ever heard of 'em???? 'Chinese walls' is a term used to describe compartmentalisation in companies so that comercially sensitive information does not reach those that could benifit from it (especially those internal to the company). The best example is in a merchant bank with depetments that deal with share offerings and trading of stocks and shares. The members of these two departments are officially seperated in the organisation and are specifically discouraged from having any contacts with each other, either professionally or socially, to prevent the leaking of sensitive information. So the argument that its OK to talks to DEV's casue they are your friends is nonsense, if CCP was a bank in the US, the SEC would have shut it down years ago for multiple breaches of trading standards.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:50:00 - [405] Originally by: luminoll fraternization between CCP employees and players should not be allowed and strictly enforced. This policy would have avoided this. Joined a police state recently? Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:50:00 - [406] If honesty is the goal here, why don't you start posting with your mains?
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:50:00 - [407] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Midgath Stallsman Being friends with CCP still not explain how a "friend" can get ISD agents fired at will. Indeed it does not, and if that IS the case then something is indeed, as I (and many others) have already said, there is something wrong. Just say NO to cheating!
Wikkid	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:51:00 - [408] Something is rotten in the state of Iceland.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:51:00 - [409] Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. As your buddy said earlier. "Proof or STFU." Apparently all you need to do is ask the IRS, that's easier for you to do than it is for us, enjoy. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Zylatis Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:51:00 - [410] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: luminoll fraternization between CCP employees and players should not be allowed and strictly enforced. This policy would have avoided this. Joined a police state recently? Uhhh being gagged for revealing the truth? sounds like we're already in one.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:51:00 - [411] Originally by: luminoll fraternization between CCP employees and players should not be allowed and strictly enforced. This policy would have avoided this. LOL thats crazy thats liek if you work at sup[ermarket you can never be friends with any of the customers. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Sen Xia GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:52:00 - [412] Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. Or at the real world angle to the gaming activities of the people you ally yourselves with. Everybody exploits holes in the system. Just as GS exploited (and you could argue that this isn't an exploit) time card sales to make a proft, so does Bob POS bowl. That an Alliance does everything it can to secure an advantage really isn't a suprise, just ask OS. The difference is that we make sure our exploits are within the mechanics of the game and the mechanics of the games CCP approved support services. It appears however that certain members of your corp cannot say the same.
Jackal79	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:52:00 - [413] This is mildly upsetting to me but I don't understand why its such a big deal to you all? So a dev joins some po-dunk corp and plays god with it. Its not good, and I definitely wouldn't want it to happen to me, but I don't think its a game breaking issue. And if devs can't play the game, how can they make it any better?
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:52:00 - [414] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic Stuff Youve lied to many times to be trusted. Proof or stfu. Just stop talking. Yet another BoB linked CCP drama bomb. Lightning may strike twice, but how many times has it been now? Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
squidgee GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:52:00 - [415] Originally by: Rebellion If honesty is the goal here, why don't you start posting with your mains? Quick, look over there! Ignore our cheating!
Phaethon Prime Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:52:00 - [416] Props to The Mittani for an excellent setup. This sort of spin is the best part of EVE.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:52:00 - [417] Edited by: Inturist on 26/05/2007 01:52:35 is it not easier to just wait till what CCP will say ? , and AFTER that start saying bull** or make any ***** decisions ? it's rly sad to c most of the replies here , people, just wait for answer from CCP , gheeez , u people r damn insane >_< -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
Kesslar Znel Exegesis Aerospace GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:52:00 - [418] Originally by: Rebellion If honesty is the goal here, why don't you start posting with your mains? I am and none of you guys are replying to me. If I post on an alt at least I'll get a "proof or stfu".
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:53:00 - [419] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic Stuff Youve lied to many times to be trusted. Proof or stfu. typical
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:53:00 - [420] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. As your buddy said earlier. "Proof or STFU." Apparently all you need to do is ask the IRS, that's easier for you to do than it is for us, enjoy. Proof or STFU.
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:53:00 - [421] Originally by: Dianabolic Oh really? Seleene doesn't speak to the dev team? Virtuozzo? TRIGGER never did? How about CYVOK? All of those people have Dev (and higher) contacts on their msn. What do you have to say to that? I thought this was all overblown until Rebellion and you came out and admitted that you really do talk to the dev teams and have special lines that we don't. When GS has a major problem due to a bug, we have to use the petition system. A system filled with quite a few people who don't have a full understanding of game mechanics. We wait weeks for reimbursements, and sometimes never get the proper (and obvious) outcome. Same with LV, same with nearly every other alliance in the game. When the server resets and POSes can be refueled with stront while in reinforce, we have to send petitions to fix it. And then we get told that they don't have server logs of it going into reinforce and therefore can not be helped (even as the POSes are coming out of reinforce in front of our eyes). You get to contact your own dev and say "hey there's this stront bug sure is weird could you help us out?" We don't get to give input to the devs directly. One of our members had to post a freaking manifesto on Titans, only to get the response of "thanks for all the work" weeks later. Sure would help just to send a quick IM to a buddy and say "hey these Titan things are unbalanced!" You have systematically lied to the eve community about your relationship with the developers. You have lied about t20. You lie, lie, and lie some more. You had GM events leaked to you PERSONALLY Dianabolic, and yet you are still unapologetic. (Who leaked them, anyway? Now is a good time to say, since we're all here talking about corruption. Maybe Internal Affairs would be interested.) Are you truly unable to figure out how disgusting it is that one alliance is allowed to have the ear of the developers while everyone else is excluded? I mean, I didn't realize that playing for a long time gives you such special privileges. It's time to end this. It's time for CCP to come clean, and it's time for the lies to stop.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:53:00 - [422] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. As your buddy said earlier. "Proof or STFU." Apparently all you need to do is ask the IRS, that's easier for you to do than it is for us, enjoy. Just say NO to cheating!
Blablabla1	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:54:00 - [423] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: luminoll fraternization between CCP employees and players should not be allowed and strictly enforced. This policy would have avoided this. Joined a police state recently? USA = police state :P (ok george bush im kidding, you really arent an idiot) But CCP can have friends, why the fk not? Go work for a game company Boss Says, "Oh yeah btw you cant have any mates" - Good luck with that!
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:54:00 - [424] Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. Or at the real world angle to the gaming activities of the people you ally yourselves with. Why am I not surprised that SA goons have also started spamming sladhdot and digg too? If you're really interested in the truth, you'd wait for CCP to post their side before spamming this all over the place. You would even be able to wait until CCP says something that you supposedly have "proof" otherwise, and make them look all the more like liars. But no, it's much better to raise hell and get as much attention as you can, and keep spamming the allegations for the off chance that people that read take it at face value, you'd even create these people if you had to, if only to make it appear that 3rd party individuals actually do believe something wrong is going on. If you really hated how CCP run EVE for legitimate reasons, you'd just quit and stop paying them. But no, you have a real axe to grind, and want to take the game down. It's not enough that you stop paying CCP for their game, you want other people to stop paying too, so that CCP gets hurt more. Would you get geek cred by being able to claim that you pwned EVE? Most of you play this game because of a desire to ridicule the stereotype of the playerbase, just like what you did with Second Life. At this point, I don't know of CCP even thinks it's worth putting up with goon antics just for their monthly subscriptions. Perhaps goons anticipate that too, and thus want to make their monthy subscription worth more in that they would seek to influence other players to make their pressure group weigh more in the eyes of CCP. At any rate, when you do leave EVE, I hope it would be after your fleets learn to focus fire on primaries. It requires the same discipline as copying and pasting the same text all over the forums. This isn't the Goons that are raging. This is EVE.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:54:00 - [425] Originally by: Zylatis Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: luminoll fraternization between CCP employees and players should not be allowed and strictly enforced. This policy would have avoided this. Joined a police state recently? Uhhh being gagged for revealing the truth? sounds like we're already in one. Ever read the TOS? Except you are still free to voice your "truth", just not on here - and nowhere on these forums, in the eula or the TOS does it say you have any rights to say anything what so ever. Read them, they're enlightening. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:55:00 - [426] Edited by: Virtuoso DeToure on 26/05/2007 01:55:34 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. As your buddy said earlier. "Proof or STFU." Apparently all you need to do is ask the IRS, that's easier for you to do than it is for us, enjoy. Nice try. The IRS doesn't care if that money is used for things to benefit the alliance (forums, Teamspeak, killboard, Wiki, etc.) or Remedial's pocket. I can tell you for a fact that Remedial has never made money off GTC sales. But you already knew that, being "spymaster" and all.
Reverend Moon	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:55:00 - [427] Is CCP going to address or acknowledge the ability for an alliance to use MSN to talk to ISD leaders and ultimately get ISD people banned? Also is CCP going to respond regarding the allegations of the RP events being rigged? Saying the only "misconduct" is related to sharkbait ninja joining, grabbing director roles for 21 minutes and leaving would be incredibly short sighted and would only be an insult to everyone.
Bertram Russel	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:56:00 - [428] Tomorrow me and my mates will buy vodka. Then go throu this thread and read all bob posts. Everytime bob tries the usual logical fallacys we will have a shot of vodka. Wish us luck, we might die
squidgee GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:56:00 - [429] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Zylatis Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: luminoll fraternization between CCP employees and players should not be allowed and strictly enforced. This policy would have avoided this. Joined a police state recently? Uhhh being gagged for revealing the truth? sounds like we're already in one. Ever read the TOS? Except you are still free to voice your "truth", just not on here - and nowhere on these forums, in the eula or the TOS does it say you have any rights to say anything what so ever. Read them, they're enlightening. Does it mention MSN contact with CCP staff anywhere in those TOS?
Kesslar Znel Exegesis Aerospace GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:56:00 - [430] Originally by: Jackal79 This is mildly upsetting to me but I don't understand why its such a big deal to you all? So a dev joins some po-dunk corp and plays god with it. Its not good, and I definitely wouldn't want it to happen to me, but I don't think its a game breaking issue. And if devs can't play the game, how can they make it any better? For those of us who play in 0.0 this sort of stuff is a game-breaking issue.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:56:00 - [431] Originally by: Bu Jinkan I thought this was all overblown until Rebellion and you came out and admitted that you really do talk to the dev teams and have special lines that we don't. Of course you didn't. And, if you guys for one minute tried to engage with the community rather than turn it in to your (self coined phrase) "goons in space" you may actually get that kind of contact. As it is you pull stunts like this. Way to win friends and influence people? Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Badhands Gallente DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:57:00 - [432] taken from the in game bio of the DS1 CEO Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Statement on dev misconduct: for the record, Darkstar1 has 3 pos in game only, both are and have always worked fine and have never been petitioned by anyone in the corp for not working, the statement given by CCP is incorrect and simply not true, LUCASWV, - CEO of Darkstar1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Statement on dev misconduct: for the record, Darkstar1 has 3 pos in game only, both are and have always worked fine
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:57:00 - [433] Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. As your buddy said earlier. "Proof or STFU." Apparently all you need to do is ask the IRS, that's easier for you to do than it is for us, enjoy. Nice try. The IRS doesn't care if that money is used for things to benefit the alliance (forums, Teamspeak, killboard, Wiki, etc.) or Remedial's pocket. I can tell you for a fact that Remedial has never made money of GTC sales. and so , goonies paying 9$ or something a month to be able lose as many T1 ships as possible ? Now look - GTC sales -> isk - minerals , 10$ from member . = ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
Krystal Foxglove Caldari Subach-Tech FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:58:00 - [434] I don't know much about this topic though I've read through all fourteen pages (at the time of this post). This is kinda getting ridiculous... the shouts of "You did this..." and "BoB did that..." and "Can I have your stuff?" is getting a bit ridiculous. One of the posts here said that we have an intelligent player-base but the only intelligent players I see are either the one's who are NOT posting to this topic... trying to get on with their everyday lives in EVE... or actually MAKING some sort of effort in trying to clear up an issue. I was told by some people (while I was in a 0.0 sec area for the first time) to stay away from any BoB people for fear that they'd pop me and my guide for "stealing." Now, I can understand that, BUT (yes, a BIG BUT here), wouldn't BoB have a bit of common sense not to pop anyone who was in a Caracal being lead to 0.0 by an interceptor and NOT pop them? Sure.. that last paragraph may have been off-topic but kinda makes a bit of sense. Common sense that is. I've also seen those screen shots.. did anyone realize that with the right tools... they can be edited flawlessly to sway a story to someones favor? I say that we let this thread die a peaceful death... not get overworked and go back to enjoying the game? Oh. I don't want your stuff... I want to earn it myself. =3 Cheers from the Foxy Missile Fighter and Mining Vixen. Krystal Foxglove.
Blablabla1	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:58:00 - [435] Originally by: Badhands taken from the in game bio of the DS1 CEO Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Statement on dev misconduct: for the record, Darkstar1 has 3 pos in game only, both are and have always worked fine and have never been petitioned by anyone in the corp for not working, the statement given by CCP is incorrect and simply not true, LUCASWV, - CEO of Darkstar1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, in ASCN DS1 lied and cheated their whole way through.. Would take what they said, specifically Gilbert and CEO pyrex with a pinch of salt mate
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:58:00 - [436] Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Edited by: Virtuoso DeToure on 26/05/2007 01:55:34 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. As your buddy said earlier. "Proof or STFU." Apparently all you need to do is ask the IRS, that's easier for you to do than it is for us, enjoy. Nice try. The IRS doesn't care if that money is used for things to benefit the alliance (forums, Teamspeak, killboard, Wiki, etc.) or Remedial's pocket. I can tell you for a fact that Remedial has never made money off GTC sales. But you already knew that, being "spymaster" and all. Actually it does, it's an "income". Which is also why your new ceo, The Mittani, posted the "we're ass broke" thread. Crying much? Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Kesslar Znel Exegesis Aerospace GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:59:00 - [437] Originally by: Dianabolic Read them, they're enlightening. They are pretty long, maybe you could get GM Eris to write a summary for me.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:59:00 - [438] Originally by: Midgath Stallsman Being friends with CCP still not explain how a "friend" can get ISD agents fired at will. I would like to know how this works as well.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:00:00 - [439] Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. Or at the real world angle to the gaming activities of the people you ally yourselves with. Why am I not surprised that SA goons have also started spamming sladhdot and digg too? If you're really interested in the truth, you'd wait for CCP to post their side before spamming this all over the place. You would even be able to wait until CCP says something that you supposedly have "proof" otherwise, and make them look all the more like liars. But no, it's much better to raise hell and get as much attention as you can, and keep spamming the allegations for the off chance that people that read take it at face value, you'd even create these people if you had to, if only to make it appear that 3rd party individuals actually do believe something wrong is going on. If you really hated how CCP run EVE for legitimate reasons, you'd just quit and stop paying them. But no, you have a real axe to grind, and want to take the game down. It's not enough that you stop paying CCP for their game, you want other people to stop paying too, so that CCP gets hurt more. Would you get geek cred by being able to claim that you pwned EVE? Most of you play this game because of a desire to ridicule the stereotype of the playerbase, just like what you did with Second Life. At this point, I don't know of CCP even thinks it's worth putting up with goon antics just for their monthly subscriptions. Perhaps goons anticipate that too, and thus want to make their monthy subscription worth more in that they would seek to influence other players to make their pressure group weigh more in the eyes of CCP. At any rate, when you do leave EVE, I hope it would be after your fleets learn to focus fire on primaries. It requires the same discipline as copying and pasting the same text all over the forums. Again, you think Goon's are the only one's that are on board with this. Everyone is against you. Face it, you're done. Thanks for ruining the game for everyone else. Make money from timecards doesn't affect us as much as CHEATING.
Ishur Gallente Ore Diggers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:00:00 - [440] Staying in Employment 101- Do NOT **** where you eat. There is a approx 3-4 million euro flowing into CCP every month. A CEO who lets someone on his payroll risk that kinda revenue will come under serious questioning from shareholders. I can only hope that that is a sufficient spur to end this kind of conduct from within. A barman gets fired for taking a drink- why not the same here..? ''I know that human beings and fish can coexist peacefully'' - George W Bush.
squidgee GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:00:00 - [441] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Edited by: Virtuoso DeToure on 26/05/2007 01:55:34 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. As your buddy said earlier. "Proof or STFU." Apparently all you need to do is ask the IRS, that's easier for you to do than it is for us, enjoy. Nice try. The IRS doesn't care if that money is used for things to benefit the alliance (forums, Teamspeak, killboard, Wiki, etc.) or Remedial's pocket. I can tell you for a fact that Remedial has never made money off GTC sales. But you already knew that, being "spymaster" and all. Actually it does, it's an "income". Which is also why your new ceo, The Mittani, posted the "we're ass broke" thread. Crying much? Spies?! Where is you honor?!
Kesslar Znel Exegesis Aerospace GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:00:00 - [442] Originally by: Dianabolic Way to win friends and influence people? Influence people... you mean like CCP devs? Man, if only we had played this game the way BoB thinks we should, we could also have GMs in our pockets. Guys, guys, we screwed up. We should have been kissing ass this whole time instead of playing the game.
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:01:00 - [443] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Bu Jinkan I thought this was all overblown until Rebellion and you came out and admitted that you really do talk to the dev teams and have special lines that we don't. Of course you didn't. And, if you guys for one minute tried to engage with the community rather than turn it in to your (self coined phrase) "goons in space" you may actually get that kind of contact. As it is you pull stunts like this. Way to win friends and influence people? 1. I'm not "you guys." I'm a GS member who likes to play eve. 2. Are you sharing developer MSNs now? Are we supposed to suck up to developers so we can get their ear? Is there a "developer friend" lottery? Will they hire more developers so we can all get our very own? We're not playing this game to influence the devs. You don't get to talk privately with the referee when you don't like a call.
Dranoel	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:01:00 - [444] When I GM in other games, I like to help my fiends out. But when you are running a business, and a game with this many players, such things should not happen. People pay to play this game, you are providing a service.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:01:00 - [445] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Bu Jinkan I thought this was all overblown until Rebellion and you came out and admitted that you really do talk to the dev teams and have special lines that we don't. Of course you didn't. And, if you guys for one minute tried to engage with the community rather than turn it in to your (self coined phrase) "goons in space" you may actually get that kind of contact. As it is you pull stunts like this. Way to win friends and influence people? Liek influence isd/ccp ? =)) ps. I love the dichotomy eve playerbase -> {goon , rest of community}. Like goonfleet isn't part of the community...
Foopadoo	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:01:00 - [446] Originally by: Dianabolic And, if you guys for one minute tried to engage with the community rather than turn it in to your (self coined phrase) "goons in space" you may actually get that kind of contact. Apparently they didn't know the community they were supposed to engage with was the dev community
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:02:00 - [447] Originally by: Dark Shikari Local never exceeded 500 in F-TE, as far as I know. The cap was a myth made up by the Coalition. No, it was not. I was there, and it most definitely exceeded 500, though some people's local count didn't update properly due to lag. Quote: Yes, the lag was absolutely absurd, but there was no cap as anyone who got in the system can tell you. I was in the system in a phoenix dreadnought, so I don't need someone else to tell me. Moreover, my corpmates who were in fleet BS COULD NOT JUMP IN - not due to lag, but because the system had reached maximum capacity. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:02:00 - [448] Edited by: Virtuoso DeToure on 26/05/2007 02:01:16 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Edited by: Virtuoso DeToure on 26/05/2007 01:55:34 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. As your buddy said earlier. "Proof or STFU." Apparently all you need to do is ask the IRS, that's easier for you to do than it is for us, enjoy. Nice try. The IRS doesn't care if that money is used for things to benefit the alliance (forums, Teamspeak, killboard, Wiki, etc.) or Remedial's pocket. I can tell you for a fact that Remedial has never made money off GTC sales. But you already knew that, being "spymaster" and all. Actually it does, it's an "income". Which is also why your new ceo, The Mittani, posted the "we're ass broke" thread. Crying much? Both examples get flagged as "income," thus my point. X dollars a month gets made through affiliate programs, that same X dollars a month goes towards Goonfleet infrastructure (forums, etc, etc). No profit is made by anyone. Not Remedial, not Mittani. Would you like me to do the basic math for you? Supporting a community of 4,000+ players is not free. In fact, it's quite expensive. But again, you already knew that. ;)
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:02:00 - [449] Originally by: Rebellion If you don't like CCP or EVE, then don't play the game. No need to act like a spoiled brat and demand special treatment from a company that you've tried your best to blackmail and ruin. So you dare to talk about how goons shouldn't demand special treatment when other members of your alliance talk about how they get special treatment and it isn't a big deal?
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:02:00 - [450] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Bu Jinkan I thought this was all overblown until Rebellion and you came out and admitted that you really do talk to the dev teams and have special lines that we don't. Of course you didn't. And, if you guys for one minute tried to engage with the community rather than turn it in to your (self coined phrase) "goons in space" you may actually get that kind of contact. As it is you pull stunts like this. Way to win friends and influence people? 1) People who don't buddy up to developers, moderators, GMs, and the Eve public at large deserve to be left at a disadvantage? 2) Goons are far from the only alliance who cannot call devs/mods/GMs their "friends," or have them on MSN. Your alliance is apparently the exception, not the rule. Nice attempt to sidestep with more character attacks to deflect attention here though. It's not getting old at all.
Valdis Corick GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:03:00 - [451] Now here are a couple problems (and proposed solutions) that are also being overlooked as well. Petition System - Causal deletions: If petitions are unfounded or not applicable, they need to be responded to, not casually deleted. Every petition needs to be treated in a serious manner, and it is highly suspicious when petitions, even ones of harmless actions like a CCP-Staff adding him (or her)self as a Director to a corp without asking permission first. Every petition should be responded to, even if it's a simple cut and paste response of "This matter is being looked into" although canned responses are a far cry from ideal, it's a lot less sinister and dissapointing for a customer to have their petitions outright deleted. Summary/Solution: Every petition should be responded to. GM's should not be allowed to close petitions without giving a response first. Real-World Example: I worked for an IT support group in college, and there was a reoccuring problem where people would accidentally close work order requests without responding to the customer first. They hardcoded into the system a policy that the customer must be contacted before the order can be closed. Worked like a charm and then there was always a paper trail to refer to decisions. EVE-O Banning/Closed Threads - CCP's policy of not allowing players to discuss GM decisions or possible exploits needs to be looked into, especially with the notorious problems involving the petition system. There also needs to be an official sotre of GM decisions to prevent mixed messages being sent about questionable in-game activity. The most obvious example is the difference of opinions heard about what is commonly referred to as "POS Bowling". First it's considered an exploit, then it's grey area, then it's acceptable. Summary: CCP needs to create an official "rule book." A place where GM decisions are recorded and can be referenced. This will help CCP create a more unified front and protect against claims of "favoritism" IA's Cloak and Dagger Effect: - Constantly saying "we'll look into it, actions will be taken" will not help the problem at this point. The only way to regain trust and confidence in the consumer base is a full disclosure of the actions being taken. Of course nitty gritty details of actual punishments or even names can be ommited (or changed) but we need to see proof that this is being taken care of and not being swept under the carpet only to reamerge later. With the T20 incident, we were led to believe that IA would keep anything like this from happening again. And we all see how that went. Summary: CCP needs to address all accusations head on. If the accusations are unfounded and false then tell us (and even better providing proof). Give us a real reason why Admiral Cad;jklfal;kj banned the ISD guy. Give us a real reason why Sharkbait was poking around as a director in a corp. These are a list of problems that I think are well-founded enough to demand action, and are also not targeted against any particular playerbase, just against CCP. IN CONCLUSION, PLEASE MAKE CHANGE TO PETITION SYSTEM SO PETITIONS CANNOT BE CLOSED WITHOUT A RESPONSE TO THE PETITIONER.
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:03:00 - [452] Tbh... The truth has been spinned and mixed and some bull** has been added just to make the goons/coalition look better than they do now. They are using the "omgdevtheyhax" excuse because they are loosing the war. They can't stand the fact that even though they gathered most of eve against us, they still failed and are failing horribly at bringing us down. This is just a **poor excuse to why they are loosing the war. We have worked hard and dedicated us to winning this war. And now, you have set a new benchmark for being the most sorriest players in cyperworld. --- Reikoku for the motherf00kin life.
LiquidSteele Exit 13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:03:00 - [453] Edited by: LiquidSteele on 26/05/2007 02:02:32 Thank God that Eve has Goonswarm to look out for the rest of us. BoB want to win Eve and Goons want to destroy Eve. Believe who u want i guess. LS
Natas Dog Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:04:00 - [454] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Bu Jinkan I thought this was all overblown until Rebellion and you came out and admitted that you really do talk to the dev teams and have special lines that we don't. Of course you didn't. And, if you guys for one minute tried to engage with the community rather than turn it in to your (self coined phrase) "goons in space" you may actually get that kind of contact. As it is you pull stunts like this. Way to win friends and influence people? Silly us making friends with other players instead of devs. We've been doing it all wrong guys. _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last... is usually the one the joke was about.
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:04:00 - [455] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Midgath Stallsman Being friends with CCP still not explain how a "friend" can get ISD agents fired at will. Indeed it does not, and if that IS the case then something is indeed, as I (and many others) have already said, there is something wrong. I would like to hold this post, however poorly written and riddled with, horribly, comma, usage, as the first logical thing a BoB person has said. $10 says you get kicked from the corp
Smuca Comando Vermelho R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:04:00 - [456] CCP did not respect people who pay to play this game... that is sad.
busta nut Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:04:00 - [457] Originally by: Rebellion Disgusting that you think that the monthly fee you pay entitles you to disrupt the gaming of the rest of us. Guess you're really acting like goons. Creating alts to post here and make it appear as if this isn't planned harassment of CCP and us is pathetic. If you don't like CCP or EVE, then don't play the game. No need to act like a spoiled brat and demand special treatment from a company that you've tried your best to blackmail and ruin. If Goonswarm showed as much coordination ingame as they do with their forum and defamation attacks, you'd actually win battles, and maybe not be so miserable that you'd try and pull something off like this. demand special treatment - would that be like having devs on msn? or spawning bpos for your mates? - the monthly fee doesnt entitle goons to spam everything like they have, but what it does entitle them to is the exact same treatment as everyone else, bob included - get the message, stop cheating, or at least stop pretending that your cheating is less harmful/devious/wrong than the goons
Danzir Kasnov	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:04:00 - [458] Originally by: Rebellion Why am I not surprised that SA goons have also started spamming sladhdot and digg too? If you're really interested in the truth, you'd wait for CCP to post their side before spamming this all over the place. You would even be able to wait until CCP says something that you supposedly have "proof" otherwise, and make them look all the more like liars. Ah yes because third party neutral comment is a terrible thing.
Sali Ennt	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:04:00 - [459] I just love reading about EVE scandals on Slashdot. What pride I feel when people say "Oh - you play the most corrupt MMO in existence".
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:04:00 - [460] Originally by: Bertram Russel Tomorrow me and my mates will buy vodka. Then go throu this thread and read all bob posts. Everytime bob tries the usual logical fallacys we will have a shot of vodka. Wish us luck, we might die Your deaths will not be in vain!! Eat lots of toast on sunday morning... --- Originally by: Blacklight To be honest
Orohime	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:04:00 - [461] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Bu Jinkan I thought this was all overblown until Rebellion and you came out and admitted that you really do talk to the dev teams and have special lines that we don't. Of course you didn't. And, if you guys for one minute tried to engage with the community rather than turn it in to your (self coined phrase) "goons in space" you may actually get that kind of contact. As it is you pull stunts like this. Way to win friends and influence people? That's just the thing though. Either every player should have a direct channel to those in charge, or no player should. We shouldn't have to get buddy-buddy with devs just go get things done.
Robert Denby	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:05:00 - [462] Edited by: Robert Denby on 26/05/2007 02:06:18 Isn't it funny how BoB and pets LOVE to call everyone "crybabies" and "whiners," yet someone lands next to one of their ships, and they go crying ON MSN to the developers? Instantly? OOOOOOOOOOOhhhhh, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, someone scratched my indestructible death machine, quick, get mommy on the phone, I want him grounded for the weekend. They have a ***train steamrolling over everything in their path, they strut about it like the biggest***s on the planet, and then whine over something this goddamn stupid? Seriously, what a bulging sac of wusses.
Psyllus Ktenas Amarr BlackHole Entertainment	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:05:00 - [463] Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 26/05/2007 02:06:54 Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 26/05/2007 02:04:46 To all the people who are posting here from the narrowed viewpoint of their ingame alliance: Take a step back and look at the whole picture. This inst about your little alliance or even about EVE anymore cause this kind of "screw up`s" have started to scratch at the paint of CCP`s reputation as a serious business. If that goes through the game press what do you think will come first to people`s mind if they hear of CCP or EVE? People tend to remember the negative things for lot longer then the positive stuff if it comes to corporations. And I dont think potential investors like to give their money to a company that acts like this. Please CCP start acting like professionals. Thank you
Factor Benz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:05:00 - [464] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Bu Jinkan I thought this was all overblown until Rebellion and you came out and admitted that you really do talk to the dev teams and have special lines that we don't. Of course you didn't. And, if you guys for one minute tried to engage with the community rather than turn it in to your (self coined phrase) "goons in space" you may actually get that kind of contact. As it is you pull stunts like this. Way to win friends and influence people? Some of us don't feel the need to get devs involved to accomplish our objectives.
Cabadrin Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:06:00 - [465] All I have to say about this incident is that you only ever hear one half of the story. If Sharkbait was actually fixing an issue, then the goons are stupid for bringing it up. The ISD thing is fishy because he was a reporter, not an event producer or senior producer. The events team has a whole web page open to the public; it was probably a storyline event where CCP wanted it to end a certain way. Certainly smells like a bad egg trying to ruin the whole bunch. _______________________________________________
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:06:00 - [466] Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. Or at the real world angle to the gaming activities of the people you ally yourselves with. Why am I not surprised that SA goons have also started spamming sladhdot and digg too? If you're really interested in the truth, you'd wait for CCP to post their side before spamming this all over the place. You would even be able to wait until CCP says something that you supposedly have "proof" otherwise, and make them look all the more like liars. But no, it's much better to raise hell and get as much attention as you can, and keep spamming the allegations for the off chance that people that read take it at face value, you'd even create these people if you had to, if only to make it appear that 3rd party individuals actually do believe something wrong is going on. If you really hated how CCP run EVE for legitimate reasons, you'd just quit and stop paying them. But no, you have a real axe to grind, and want to take the game down. It's not enough that you stop paying CCP for their game, you want other people to stop paying too, so that CCP gets hurt more. Would you get geek cred by being able to claim that you pwned EVE? Most of you play this game because of a desire to ridicule the stereotype of the playerbase, just like what you did with Second Life. At this point, I don't know of CCP even thinks it's worth putting up with goon antics just for their monthly subscriptions. Perhaps goons anticipate that too, and thus want to make their monthy subscription worth more in that they would seek to influence other players to make their pressure group weigh more in the eyes of CCP. At any rate, when you do leave EVE, I hope it would be after your fleets learn to focus fire on primaries. It requires the same discipline as copying and pasting the same text all over the forums. So you are admitting to cheating and justifying it because of something legal that goonfleet is doing. Right.
Kristina Parker	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:06:00 - [467] Edited by: Kristina Parker on 26/05/2007 02:07:43 With such a TEENY, TINY player base for an MMO, you'd think that CCP would have the forethought to exclude its employees from playing in the general population. Things like this would and could have been easily avoided. *spelling edit
Jimbob McKracken Caldari The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:07:00 - [468] Maybe it is CCP's intention to cheat BoB into "winning eve" by controlling all of 0.0. That way they can have some amazing story line about a small group of rebels rising up and overthrowing the evil empire and its tyrannical ruler......... Apparently in Rev 3 BoB will be able to build a "Deathstar" and simply remove outposts with a single volley from its giant "laser beam" I hope when planet flying comes in we get Ewoks too........
FarmerJimbo GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:08:00 - [469] Hi. I only started playing a few months ago. Yes I'm a goon and I got bored with my other MMO so I started playing (and paying for) Eve. It's a fun game, I like it. Previous scandals were cool to read about cause I wasn't affected. This one is not cool to read about. I would like a detailed, coherent and public explanation/reply to ALL the issues raised by this silliness. This will allow me to continue to have fun getting my ships blown up and paying you money.
squidgee GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:08:00 - [470] Edited by: squidgee on 26/05/2007 02:07:17 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Rebellion If you don't like CCP or EVE, then don't play the game. No need to act like a spoiled brat and demand special treatment from a company that you've tried your best to blackmail and ruin. So you dare to talk about how goons shouldn't demand special treatment when other members of your alliance talk about how they get special treatment and it isn't a big deal? No, he's right. There's no need to act like spoiled brats on the forum. I'll just ask my buddy in BoB to fire up MSN and we'll get this whole thing straightened out. When are you going to address this, CPP?
Kesslar Znel Exegesis Aerospace GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:08:00 - [471] GUYS You are missing the point here! Remedial may or may not have made money on GTC sales! Why can't you see the big picture??? This is RUINING EVE and you guys are going on and on about "dev midconduct"! This community sickens me. I'm MSNing Hilmar right now to have you all banned.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:09:00 - [472] Originally by: Kesslar Znel GUYS You are missing the point here! Remedial may or may not have made money on GTC sales! Why can't you see the big picture??? This is RUINING EVE and you guys are going on and on about "dev midconduct"! This community sickens me. I'm MSNing Hilmar right now to have you all banned. You are not bob... You dont have the autorothy to ban anyone.
Kristina Parker	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:10:00 - [473] With such a TEENY, TINY player base for an MMO, you'd think that CCP would have the forethought to exclude its employees from playing in the general population. Things like this would and could have been easily avoided.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:10:00 - [474] Originally by: Cheng Tbh... The truth has been spinned and mixed and some bull** has been added just to make the goons/coalition look better than they do now. In all honesty we don't need to spin and mix that much, your members are doing a far better job than we ever could: Originally by:** Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:10:00 - [475] Originally by: WhitePhantom Originally by: Mahavy Seth CCP Tomorrow Response To All This: BoB POS was bugged in the ion cell augmentaion idrodynamic propeller piston, and need a CCP developer to join the alliance as a director because in no other way we was able to solve the problem. Regarding all other allegations, it seems that some peoples take great delight to uncover what they think it is true. The fact that BoB is always involved is merely an unlicky event. We close this topic and we will ban everyone will again talk about this. Your post isn't exactly funny. I think some people are taking a game to far, lighten up. Well i think the last part could be true, cuz if u raise your voice u will being made shut up once and for all. I more and more loose my trust to CCP. although i love this game so much. And again i have to say its not just a game, because its people interacting with each other and again they not doing it in a mature and proper way!
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:11:00 - [476] It's cute to see BOB pretty much unable to actually respond to allegations, but have to resort to their own (which they can't prove, and I personally have never given a single thin real US minted dime to goonswarm for anything. Might get a poster though). Face it. You guys have tried to pin all sorts of crap on us Goons. How many have EVER stuck? You've never proven a damn thing. Perhaps there's a reason for this (it ain't true). However, a LOT of the accusations against you guys were true. Dev's leading fleets, spawned BPOs, and hey, now you admit you have an open chat line to the Devs that somehow lets you get stuff fixed before the rest of us. So, proven accusations against goons = 0. I didn't bother counting how many accusations against BOB have been shown true. More than us goons though.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:11:00 - [477] Originally by: Kesslar Znel GUYS You are missing the point here! Remedial may or may not have made money on GTC sales! Why can't you see the big picture??? This is RUINING EVE and you guys are going on and on about "dev midconduct"! This community sickens me. I'm MSNing Hilmar right now to have you all banned. Please, don't derail this obvious and blatant Goonswarm propaganda ideated by The Mittani to destroy ccp!
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:11:00 - [478] Originally by: squidgee Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Edited by: Virtuoso DeToure on 26/05/2007 01:55:34 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. As your buddy said earlier. "Proof or STFU." Apparently all you need to do is ask the IRS, that's easier for you to do than it is for us, enjoy. Nice try. The IRS doesn't care if that money is used for things to benefit the alliance (forums, Teamspeak, killboard, Wiki, etc.) or Remedial's pocket. I can tell you for a fact that Remedial has never made money off GTC sales. But you already knew that, being "spymaster" and all. Actually it does, it's an "income". Which is also why your new ceo, The Mittani, posted the "we're ass broke" thread. Crying much? Spies?! Where is you honor?! This is pretty ridiculous given that GS's leader is a self-titled "spymaster"
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:11:00 - [479] tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:11:00 - [480] Dianabolic, if you came back here and said your account was stolen, I'd believe it. How could you be abysmally stupid enough to ADMIT part of the allegations that had the least proof? Are you TRYING to sabotage your alliance?
Amthrianius Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:12:00 - [481] blaming all your own failures on someone else is so much easier isn't it? ---------------
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:12:00 - [482] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? giev msn
Foopadoo	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:12:00 - [483] EVE is the next Star Wars Galaxies, I'm calling it right now
MetalZero Minmatar Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:13:00 - [484] Originally by: Shadow Elk Originally by: Kesslar Znel GUYS You are not bob... You dont have the autorothy to ban anyone. LOL !!!!! .... you win ___________ ThunderCats
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:13:00 - [485] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Are you going to back up that IRS statement? Or now that you've got no proof you're just going to ignore it? Where is that IRON dude's signature when you need it? What was it again? "CCP made me swear to absolutely secrecy?" Indeed.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:13:00 - [486] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like ***es. Your choice, right? I like crying like a ***. Hello, you have contributed 0 to this thread with this message (like me). PS. can I build a relation with you ? <3
Kesslar Znel Exegesis Aerospace GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:14:00 - [487] Originally by: Dianabolic Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Well I tried crying to Eris, but I don't have her MSN, so I'll just cry here instead. OK?
Danzir Kasnov	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:14:00 - [488] Originally by: Dianabolic Way to win friends and influence people? Ye thats more your thing really :/
Ratio Legis	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:14:00 - [489] Edited by: Ratio Legis on 26/05/2007 02:19:19 When the T2 BPO affair came into light, I (being new to the game) thought - well, nobody's perfect, apparently an isolated individual at CCP got too involved in matters and couldn't resist the temptation to help his long time buddies. We're all too human. This time however what comes to the public attention is not an isolated case but points to an ongoing relationship between players and people with power over the game. And this time I'm not inclined to dismiss it as a display of human weakness. It reveals a trend and I find it very disturbing - both the fact of such occurrences in the game, and the way CCP is trying to handle the matter. Giving half-baked explanations to a quarter of all the issues placed before them is not what I'd expect from somebody who's trying to be open and fair when dealing with his customers. I won't say I'm quitting the game, I won't threaten and I won't foretell the end of EVE. Instead I'll only say I'm very disappointed. And I'm not the only one. At this point the only thing that can possibly restore a measure of my faith in the fairness of EVE is an open and honest account by a CCP official what really sparked all the things mentioned in the open letter. I don't need another PR excuse, I don't need another coverup and I don't need comforting. I want to know what really happened there. I can understand human error and human weakness. I can't stand being purposefully deceived and told what somebody thinks I need to hear to be comforted. Though somehow I do not believe I'll receive this kind of fair treatment. Edit: ... and I'm not an anonymous alt either. I'm in E-Uni, no matter that my corp tag won't display on the forums.
Natas Dog Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:14:00 - [490] Originally by: Amthrianius blaming all your own failures on someone else is so much easier isn't it? Deflecting the focus off the original post's content (or lack thereof) is so much easier isn't it? _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last... is usually the one the joke was about.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:14:00 - [491] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? I think the point is that people are "offended" by the fact that you use a relationship with the devs to obtain special favors rather than playing the game on an even playing field.
Over There	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:14:00 - [492] Ban the goons, save the universe!
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:14:00 - [493] Originally by: LiquidSteele Edited by: LiquidSteele on 26/05/2007 02:02:32 Thank God that Eve has Goonswarm to look out for the rest of us. BoB want to win Eve and Goons want to destroy Eve. Believe who u want i guess. LS Goons want to destroy Eve because they put this stuff in the open? Goons have spent as much (or more...buying dread pilots, anyone?) on the game as everyone else. Do you think they want to see it destroyed? Why would they put all this time into trying to get titans fixed if they were only going to 'destroy' the game. HOW EXACTLY WILL THIS DESTROY THE GAME? I can only see it hurting the unprofessional relationship between BoB and the Devs and causing CCP to communicate like adults- that isn't destroying the game. Explain exactly how this is an attempt to destroy the game.
squidgee GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:15:00 - [494] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Originally by: squidgee Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Edited by: Virtuoso DeToure on 26/05/2007 01:55:34 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. As your buddy said earlier. "Proof or STFU." Apparently all you need to do is ask the IRS, that's easier for you to do than it is for us, enjoy. Nice try. The IRS doesn't care if that money is used for things to benefit the alliance (forums, Teamspeak, killboard, Wiki, etc.) or Remedial's pocket. I can tell you for a fact that Remedial has never made money off GTC sales. But you already knew that, being "spymaster" and all. Actually it does, it's an "income". Which is also why your new ceo, The Mittani, posted the "we're ass broke" thread. Crying much? Spies?! Where is you honor?! This is pretty ridiculous given that GS's leader is a self-titled "spymaster" Apparently you BoB alts don't catch sarcasm. Too busy MSNing the devs to try and get me banned?
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:15:00 - [495] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Bu Jinkan I thought this was all overblown until Rebellion and you came out and admitted that you really do talk to the dev teams and have special lines that we don't. Of course you didn't. And, if you guys for one minute tried to engage with the community rather than turn it in to your (self coined phrase) "goons in space" you may actually get that kind of contact. As it is you pull stunts like this. Way to win friends and influence people? You know, you really should think before you post, Diana. Simply put, there are many groups who have NEVER "pulled stunts like this" and lack a special line of communication with the devs despite that. Moreover, if you think the game should be about about "winning friends and influencing people" among the devs to get ahead instead of succeeding on your own merits in-game, then you are as morally bankrupt as the rumors try to make you out to be. The bottom line: * By your own admission, you have a line of contact to the devs that others do not. * It has been proven that CCP has given BoB direct assistance on at least two occasions (T20 and the mothership incident) * Strange things keep happening that tend to favor BoB and their allies * BoB often seem to have foreknowledge of changes to game mechanics, and exploit that prior knowledge to attain advantage The more you rant on about having friendships and special lines of communication with the devs, the more you solidify the case against you. It doesn't help that you're often arrogant and...well, I guess impolite is the best term that I can use that won't get my post deleted. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:15:00 - [496] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? GUYS WE TOLD CCP WE WANT YOU TO STOP PLAYING SO CCP IS GOING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN! Why are you crying? Stop crying! It's not even your game! :V
PriestWithKnives	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:15:00 - [497] Edited by: PriestWithKnives on 26/05/2007 02:19:03 So according to Dianabolic, one of the higher ups in bob, alot of BoB higher ups are friends with CCP employees and talk to them on msn all the time, same for a couple of other people he named. I'm just wondering do you guys use the petition system at all or just get on MSN and say, "Hey admiral you mind getting rid of this ISD guy we told him to leave and he wouldn't, yeah I know seriously what's up with that, yeah banned would be good thanks." We should just give out their msn names to make it easier for everyone in the playerbase to get to know the gms, make friends, and have them take care of their friends whenever something doesn't go their way.
Phocas Lebournes Minmatar New Justice Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:15:00 - [498] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic Stuff Youve lied to many times to be trusted. Proof or stfu. LMFAO Should I point you to the thread about t20`s bpo spawning and all the other crap you pulled off yet told us it were not true.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:15:00 - [499] Originally by: Amthrianius blaming all your own failures on someone else is so much easier isn't it? This is about how the game is run, not our e-honour.
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:16:00 - [500] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? I didn't play during beta. I guess I never got a chance to make friends with the devs. I guess I didn't know that being a real 0.0 power required having dev friends on MSN. You want me to engage with the devs to make this game how it ought to be? Okay, here we go: no alliance has a special relationship with the devs because they've played for four years. No alliance gets free T2 BPOs. No alliance gets advance knowledge of GM Events (still waiting for you to give us that name, since you surely value a non-corrupt CCP as much as us). How is that for engaging the developers?
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:16:00 - [501] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like ***es. Your choice, right? Oh, I get it now. You are not only cheating, but you should be allowed to cheat because you have been playing for 4 years. Hmm my character was made in 2003, when do I get my dev hotline, dev BPO spawns and dev cheat tools? Please let me know!** Ark - can you hurry up on this work item? Thanks!
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:17:00 - [502] Originally by: Kristina Parker With such a TEENY, TINY player base for an MMO, you'd think that CCP would have the forethought to exclude its employees from playing in the general population. Things like this would and could have been easily avoided. Must you post the exact samething twice?
Midgath Stallsman GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:17:00 - [503] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Nothing wrong with being friends. It is when your able to get people fired because they may or may not have bumped one of your dreads that it becomes an issue. o.0
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:18:00 - [504] Originally by: PriestWithKnives So according to Diabolik alot of BoB higher ups are friends with CCP employees and talk to them on msn all the time, same for a couple of other people he named. I'm just wondering do you guys use the petition system at all or just get on MSN and say, "Hey admiral you mind getting rid of this ISD guy we told him to leave and he wouldn't, yeah I know seriously what's up with that, yeah banned would be good thanks." We should just give out their msn names to make it easier for everyone in the playerbase to get to know the gms, make friends, and have them take care of their friends whenever something doesn't go their way. No, we actually just complain about ugly women winning miss iceland and how we can rig next years competition :) Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:18:00 - [505] Originally by: Kesslar Znel Originally by: Dianabolic Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Well I tried crying to Eris, but I don't have her MSN, so I'll just cry here instead. OK? Lol thats good. Good point.
Orion Intaki	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:18:00 - [506] Edited by: Orion Intaki on 26/05/2007 02:19:58 To be honest, I don't really care about the BOB and CCP relationship, the thing that bothers me is that the RP events could have been fixed. That really bothers me because one of the things, or gimmicks as has been shown now, of EVE is that people can make a difference. And I'm bored so I'm searching the EULA for strange reasons to be banned. 1.You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System. And I will bet you any amount of ISK that CCP will site this clause from the Code of Conduct. We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation. That's a legal boiler plate kiddes.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:18:00 - [507] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Amthrianius blaming all your own failures on someone else is so much easier isn't it? This is about how the game is run, not our e-honour. Sure , cuz maybe u dont have the - * E-thingy *? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:18:00 - [508] Originally by: Midgath Stallsman Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Nothing wrong with being friends. It is when your able to get people fired because they may or may not have bumped one of your dreads that it becomes an issue. As I've said, I completely agree. No sensible person can argue any different, wouldn't you agree? Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:19:00 - [509] Dianabolic are you a sleeper goon agent? Seriously.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:20:00 - [510] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like ***es. Your choice, right? - I deserve special treatment because I've been playing for four years - People who think the playing field should be fair (aka, people shouldn't have devs as their e-bffs) are kiddie whining ***es - Anyone blowing the whistle on corruption is "sacrificing them for your own gains" Did I miss anything? You're the bestest diplomat ever ever (except for Siddy, because furries are funny)
Magritz	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:20:00 - [511] I love "post away" threads like this one. It's akin to letting a child cry and scream. "He'll get over it.." Like t20.. there's outrage and people go back to their business. I honestly don't understand why CCP isn't forthcoming. They don't seem to take much stock in their credibility. Is it cultural? An Icelandic thing?
Ace101 Dark Knights of Deneb	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:20:00 - [512] where there is money and power there is corruption imho Brute Force Film
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:21:00 - [513] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic Stuff Youve lied to many times to be trusted. Proof or stfu. Try www.eve-search.com sailorboy Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:21:00 - [514] A few suggestions for CCP: 1. A petition should NEVER be deleted or closed without the authorization of the player. This is like rule #1 of customer service. 2. Players should never be friends with ISD/GM/Devs while they are performing their duties for CCP. The fact that BoB members themselves have stated that they have friends on staff and can contact them outside of the means of every other player speaks volumes about what is wrong with your company. 3. You only fuel the fire when you close down the lines of communication. Deleting threads and banning players for posting their concerns only reinforces the distrust. The fact is you aren't going to stop the information from being made public, but instead it will spread throughout other more widespread channels rather than being confined to these forums. 4. You seriously need to establish a concrete code of conduct for your staffers and make it public. Such as the only appropriate means of contacting a GM are via the petition system. -------------------------------------
Analog Chaos	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:21:00 - [515] Edited by: Analog Chaos on 26/05/2007 02:21:14 Un freakin believable, a bob pet is actrully trying to defend this simply because he honors their in game alliance. Get real man, this goes beyond allegiances. It's appalling you would sandbag the issue for sake of defending the team you play for in game. Originally by: Cyllaina CCP being contacted via MSN rather than petition? Who cares? That's hilarious, oh.. you were serious? Well, Uhm.. me? HELLO! omg, that's comical. "Come on now people, all this instigating and calling to arms from the community is what will ruin this game, not the fact BoB has CCP staff on MSN lists." o rly? Well you do have a point, public outrage will kill the game. I guess the cause of the public outrage doesn't matter tho, we should just focus on removeing the public outrage then everything will be ok then. Right? Is that what your saying? Because it sure as hell sounds like it. "CCP is not a local government, theyre not elected officals, if you don't like the way things are handled, stop paying them, it's not like taxes, you have a choice. " We have a choice to voice what we don't like the way things are handled. In the hope that things will change. Which is exactly what the past few hundred post obviously have said. I don't like the way my car steers to the left should I just stop putting gas in it? No, I go get that crap aligned "They do NOT have to answer to the customer, simply stop being a customer and go play vanguard or something singleplayer so you dont have to interact with other people." Yes, they do actrully. Little bit of advice - don't bother trying to work out of the house or start your own buisness... Wait a minute, are you a CCP employee?
Midgath Stallsman GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:22:00 - [516] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Midgath Stallsman Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Nothing wrong with being friends. It is when your able to get people fired because they may or may not have bumped one of your dreads that it becomes an issue. As I've said, I completely agree. No sensible person can argue any different, wouldn't you agree? Currently the evidence points to that happening. I welcome evidence that disproves it. So when are you going to leave BoB due to their dubious actions? o.0
Morrath	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:22:00 - [517] Quote: Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? What difference does it make when you "lot" obviously get things done without the "top" ppl anyway? I'm having a hard time with statements like this, as it clearly admitts guilt, but its supposed to be ok because mom and pop don't know whats goin down. The more BoB posts I see, the more horse **** gets revealed.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:23:00 - [518] While allegations such as this about misconduct as well as RP being "rigged" are disturbing I hope CCP operates with full disclosure whether they are factual or not and keeps us informed. Until then what we have is circumstantial evidence and only one side of the story. Becoming all upset about it does no one good. If the events are factual and there was misconduct CCP should "come clean" and issue punishment to those involved but moreso communicate with the player base fully so we can have confidence in the system. While there was a previous event with T20 I realize there are many people at CCP in Iceland who work hard to feed their families and pay the bills. While there may be a few employees/players abusing the system I have to believe most of them are working hard to provide this outstanding game for us. Those who feel the need to "cheat" to get ahead in a game shouldn't be working there anyway. I once read there were over 50 families that "depend on Eve to eat". That's alot of people working to give us a good game and I doubt they're all corrupt. Those at CCP who run the company and have invested money in this need to take charge and lay down the law and reassure the player base that the system is good. I await the verdict of the investigations in this matter. Until then I keep playing and I'm not going to worry about it. It is a game after all. Archie PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP'S BLOG
Orion Intaki	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:23:00 - [519] You may not publish private communications from CCP, their agents or representatives or EVE Online volunteers without authorization. There's another goodie,
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:24:00 - [520] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? So now you get preferential treatment because of seniority? What I find to be funny is that you are unwilling to accept the fact that having Dev assistance is unfair. Instead of saying "you're right, it's unfair" you say "your fault for not having it"
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:24:00 - [521] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Thank you for confirming one of the allegations. I'm sure your buddies at CCP will appreciate it that you admit you have a relationship with CCP that allows you to get preferential treatment. -------------------------------------
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:24:00 - [522] Originally by: squidgee Apparently you BoB alts don't catch sarcasm. Too busy MSNing the devs to try and get me banned? I'm not with bob, stfu CCP has already given you tards an answer. The dev was in your corp to fix a bug. You goons really need to gtfo and stop ruining this great game. All of your lag exploits (hey guyz lets get 200 noob frigs into the system to siege poses! ) and whining is ruining the game. Leave eve to the people who have been playing since beta and know what their doing. You goonies can go blob warcraft with lvl 1 characters if you want to, but eve is a game of skill. Noobs like you are not meant to be in 0.0, and all your whining proves that. "Wah wah CCP I cant beat bob they must be cheating!!!1"
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:25:00 - [523] Edited by: Wrayeth on 26/05/2007 02:30:45 Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? Would you like to give us some dev contact info so we have a method with which to engage in discussions directly with CCP? No? I thought not. I've wanted to directly engage CCP in conversation on any number of matters over the last three years, but have never found a way to do so. I've posted requests for dialogues on the forums on four or five separate occasions and always received nothing in response (which isn't surprising, since CCP can hardly sit down and talk with every disgruntled member of their playerbase individually). Now we find out (for certain - it's been something long suspected) that you have a line of communication to do the very same things we've been TRYING to do for years, and all you have to say is that we should follow your example? That just doesn't make logical sense. US: "We haven't been able to open a dialogue with the devs." YOU: "Well, then open a dialogue with the devs!" US: "Can you even read?" -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:25:00 - [524] Originally by: Amthrianius blaming all your own failures on someone else is so much easier isn't it? Taking credit for all your successes because of having help from other people is so much easier than earning them isn't it?
Beka Rosselin Minmatar Upright Citizens Brigade	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:26:00 - [525] I'll hold off comment on the basic issues until we hear more, but one thing I will say.. springing this the way you did, and at the end of the business day on a Friday no less, has no doubt put CCP into the perfect frame of mind to deal with your case in a fair and balanced manner. To everyone demanding that CCP respond to all allegations in full detail immediately, take into account when/how this was dropped on them. They need to gather information, get all the people involved to give their sides of the story, etc. And what do you want to bet that many of them had already gone home for the weekend when this whole issue came up?
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:26:00 - [526] Originally by: Midgath Stallsman Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Midgath Stallsman Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Nothing wrong with being friends. It is when your able to get people fired because they may or may not have bumped one of your dreads that it becomes an issue. As I've said, I completely agree. No sensible person can argue any different, wouldn't you agree? Currently the evidence points to that happening. I welcome evidence that disproves it. So when are you going to leave BoB due to their dubious actions? I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I thought that CCP handled the whole T20 affair absolutely horribly - I think CCP handle alot of stuff horribly, but I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. It's a nice thing to throw around of course, that some of us knew certain peoples' identities but, tbh, we got that prior to this event anyway so it really makes no difference to us. The people in BoB are my friends, I trust my friends to play the game, as a game (it's why we rejected Kugs blackmail attempts) - I can't really see myself leaving. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Orion Intaki	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:26:00 - [527] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Originally by: squidgee Apparently you BoB alts don't catch sarcasm. Too busy MSNing the devs to try and get me banned? I'm not with bob, stfu CCP has already given you tards an answer. The dev was in your corp to fix a bug. You goons really need to gtfo and stop ruining this great game. All of your lag exploits (hey guyz lets get 200 noob frigs into the system to siege poses! ) and whining is ruining the game. Leave eve to the people who have been playing since beta and know what their doing. You goonies can go blob warcraft with lvl 1 characters if you want to, but eve is a game of skill. Noobs like you are not meant to be in 0.0, and all your whining proves that. "Wah wah CCP I cant beat bob they must be cheating!!!1" Acutally, BOB characters could have been banned for overloading the system. But they weren't; but to be fair, I'm sure GoonSwarm people could have been banned for delibriately putting a large strain upon the system.
Shivalla Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:26:00 - [528] Just came from bar, went throught the whole thread (yes, spare me from the insults), and I still think we are living the phase where Goons are now out of their EVE-O blackout (All who have access might know), and what this whole Threadnaught thing is aimed to do towards the community. What they are doing is just making more accusations towards CCP that THEY (yes game makers, who make the game) are biased and making the game world not working. THINK AGAIN. This is a fricking capitalistic venture, where CCP needs you all to pay for your monthly fee... WHO WOULD WANT TO RISK THAT. You cant all be so simple minded, that you just accept the fact that since goons go out from their EVE-O blackout that it would be the truth. We have had our situations with DEV:s wanting to be a part of a winning team, (how much do ya think we have isk, SHOULD WE BE ABLE TO BUY EVERY T2 BPO WE NEED) who wouldn. But thing is still, they have NO FRICKIN intrest on making the game BoB "friendly". You are just silly, plain old silly. How low can people really go without actually thinking...
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:26:00 - [529] Any user that attempted to help or took part in actions to spam this forum, should be banned for not any knowing better, that spamming the forum was a bad idea. Granted I feel sorry for the people who might have posted it once, but those people I hope will get unbanned when the issues cause by the actions of a small miniority of the users who spammed the forums. If you spammed the channels with a link, well then you should have stayed in the channel loner to hear the polite requests of the ISD not to post those links.
Biatchen	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:27:00 - [530] Edited by: Biatchen on 26/05/2007 02:26:33 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic Stuff Youve lied to many times to be trusted. Proof or stfu. He Cant! The threads,logs and evidence have been deleted by Friends LOL
Fiendish Lo Eve University	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:27:00 - [531] Edited by: Fiendish Lo on 26/05/2007 02:26:15 Originally by: "Dianabolic" tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. They tried to engage, in this case, by using the petition system, as they're told to do in the rules. Their petitions were deleted. Have any of your petitions ever been deleted? Have you ever had to use the petition system?
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:27:00 - [532] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Originally by: squidgee Apparently you BoB alts don't catch sarcasm. Too busy MSNing the devs to try and get me banned? I'm not with bob, stfu CCP has already given you tards an answer. The dev was in your corp to fix a bug. You goons really need to gtfo and stop ruining this great game. All of your lag exploits (hey guyz lets get 200 noob frigs into the system to siege poses! ) and whining is ruining the game. Leave eve to the people who have been playing since beta and know what their doing. You goonies can go blob warcraft with lvl 1 characters if you want to, but eve is a game of skill. Noobs like you are not meant to be in 0.0, and all your whining proves that. "Wah wah CCP I cant beat bob they must be cheating!!!1" Agreed , well u know , about frigs , they keep loosing them alot , and hey , why not ? They only paying 9$ a month for it - 9$ - blew up as many frigates as u want ^^ good idea !! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
Kadka STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:27:00 - [533] This is perhaps the most interesting and immature thread ever posted. Feels like kindergarden recess: There's a big kid on the playground. By himself, I'm sure he's a nice guy, but whenever he's around anyone else, he's a pompous *****. His name is BoB. One day he and his croonies decided to play dodgeball with all the other little kids. It was a fun sporting game, but the little kids were confused because all the balls BoB threw found their mark, some even curving outrageously to do so. The little kids are angered by this, but the teacher tells them they can play or quit, and that he/she saw nothing wrong. The game continues with the occasional lucky throw from the little guys and the consistantly lucky throws from BoB and his "friends." After a particulary well thrown shot, little Jimmy, a bit of a goon, notices the teacher throwing some of the balls for BoB! He cries out in outrage, and all of his fellow teamates take up the cry. Soon even spectaters join in the rabble, pointing fingers of shame. BoB valiently tries to defend the teacher, pointing the finger back and reciting such stories as, "You remember when you found that quarter? That was probably someone's lunch money you jerk!" Meanwhile, the teacher is feigning ignorance and doing his/her best to look busy while sending the loudest rebels to timeout. And on top of it all, we have little Miz, the poor narcissist everyone knows about who desperately wants to be loved and can never quite get anything right, dancing on the side lines yelling, "Hey guys, look at me!" Sad, isn't it? WHY WOMEN ARE BETTER THEN BOB: -only a 50% chance of cheating. -When they get screwed they actually shut up. -You can enjoy their presence once in a while. -They have friends. [center][img]http
Loyal Servant Caldari The Short Bus Squad The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:28:00 - [534] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? BOB@#$%@#$%! You guys look like complete IDIOTS by posting! I have to ask this in defense of BOB... 1. Where did BOB come into this stuff with the dev/gm joining DS1? I see allegations of misconduct, and it is ASSUMED to be BOB spying on DS1. The ISD thing - go look on slashdot, someone posted an IRC log (possibly faked, who knows) It is interesting that BOB managed to get someone on that guy within seconds, tho - tells me that there was influence there. I think the issues are being morphed together into one large ball of crap. CCP - you need to address them all, separately. Grow up as a company, stop being another Enron. TSBS - Eve's Premier podding service!
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:28:00 - [535] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? No one is offended that anyone has built up a relationship with CCP but the fact that ccp owns more shares in bob and bob more shares in CCP then any other corp is very troubeling... It almost seems as if... Space is being given to you by... Unfair means. But that cannot be can it? Everything that has been brought to light in recent months is jsut bull Right? You are jsut THAT good.. ^-^
Saanen Alsistani	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:29:00 - [536] My advice to the parties affected is to talk to a lawyer and go over the entire contract pertaining to this matter.. I beleave that there might be a breach of contract. also if that does not work, i have contact at the new your times and Major PC Gaming magizines that i can put u in touch with to get your story out.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:30:00 - [537] Originally by: Shivalla What they are doing is just making more accusations towards CCP that THEY (yes game makers, who make the game) are biased and making the game world not working. THINK AGAIN. This is a fricking capitalistic venture, where CCP needs you all to pay for your monthly fee... WHO WOULD WANT TO RISK THAT. You cant all be so simple minded, that you just accept the fact that since goons go out from their EVE-O blackout that it would be the truth. [...] How low can people really go without actually thinking... Wow, it seem that everyone who doesn't think like you, don't think correctly and are simple minded ? When the t20 affair was out, who tought that ccp would allow somebody to ruin their fricking capitalistic venture, where CCP needs you all to pay for your monthly fee... WHO WOULD WANT TO RISK THAT. You cant all be so simple minded, that you just accept the fact that since Bob go out from their EVE-O blackout that it would be the truth.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:30:00 - [538] Originally by: Shivalla This is a fricking capitalistic venture, where CCP needs you all to pay for your monthly fee... WHO WOULD WANT TO RISK THAT. You cant all be so simple minded, that you just accept the fact that since goons go out from their EVE-O blackout that it would be the truth. Heres the problem there... so far the people crying "dev misconduct" and such have proven to be correct more than CCP crying "nothing to see here" have in these matters.
Xalorn Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:30:00 - [539] Edited by: Xalorn on 26/05/2007 02:31:49 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. Dianabolic, you seem like a reasonable person that maybe has lost perspective on the situation. I implore you to reread what you just said & take a step back & re-evaluate your viewpoint Ignore the war with goonswarm/D2. Ignore the crude on this forum & this thread. Ignore the current politics & just take a step back & try to see this from everyone elses perspective. I'm not typing this to hurt you or upset you. Its a genuine request. On a side note, this series of posts is not like you at all.
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:31:00 - [540] Originally by: Dianabolic I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I thought that CCP handled the whole T20 affair absolutely horribly - I think CCP handle alot of stuff horribly, but I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. So what was it again that You were sworn to absolute secrecy about? Never seen any form of cheating... of course not Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:31:00 - [541] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Originally by: squidgee Apparently you BoB alts don't catch sarcasm. Too busy MSNing the devs to try and get me banned? I'm not with bob, stfu CCP has already given you tards an answer. The dev was in your corp to fix a bug. You goons really need to gtfo and stop ruining this great game. All of your lag exploits (hey guyz lets get 200 noob frigs into the system to siege poses! ) and whining is ruining the game. Leave eve to the people who have been playing since beta and know what their doing. You goonies can go blob warcraft with lvl 1 characters if you want to, but eve is a game of skill. Noobs like you are not meant to be in 0.0, and all your whining proves that. "Wah wah CCP I cant beat bob they must be cheating!!!1" Might want to check up on the facts before you speak in public again. DS1 never had a POS that didn't work, they never petitioned and asked for a GM to check it. So as of right now, the "GM fixing a POS bug" excuse isn't exactly high on the truth list.
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:31:00 - [542] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Dianabolic are you a sleeper goon agent? Seriously. Is there only BoB and Goon?
Bratu Alteis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:31:00 - [543] Please to be addressing the more important issue here, why was an ISD member banned without notification or explanation based on an apparent request by a BoB member directly to CCP staff? In this very thread we've seen it stated by a member of BoB: Quote: Quote: So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. And in local chat: Quote: [ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her [ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition [ 2007.03.20 06:31:00 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough [ 2007.03.20 06:31:05 ] D4kkon > rgr So to summarize: * A CCP DEVELOPER(t20), acting as head of BoB's capital fleet, was found to be cheating in conjunction with BoB by spawning Tech 2 Blueprint Originals. That CCP Developer was not fired for his actions, an outcome that is completely unacceptable. * Several members of BoB have stated that they have direct lines via MSN to CCP Developers/GMs. * We have testimony from a former ISD member that BoB member(s) used these connections to get him fired without explanation or reasonable cause. This testimony is accompanied by actual chat logs to that effect which theoretically should be verifiable by CCP. One of the supposedly corrupt CCP employees has been identified, making it even easier to investigate. * Evidence and testimony from multiple sources indicates the Aurora, the group in charge of RP events, has been rigging the outcome of these events. There are also indications that Nebulai, the head of Aurora, was a former BoB member. You need to investigate these events fully and transparently, notifying the EVE community of your complete findings. At best they indicate an unhealthy cultural link between CCP employees and the BoB alliance, at worst they are indicators of outright cheating. Any corruption/tampering discovered must result in the perpetrators being fired. This is not going away. The world is watching.
Fray Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:31:00 - [544] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/05/2007 01:40:28 The cap was a myth made up by the Coalition. Yes, the lag was absolutely absurd, but there was no cap as anyone who got in the system can tell you. Small point but it kinda relates to what I said in my other post... From memory, it was a myth originally started by someone on the 'alliance' side, there was then a post pointing everyone to a dev blog entry on the subject - this was being put forward as a reason that the coalition cap ships couldn't get into f-t - a few posts later/around it was debunked/withdrawn/proved false by either the same dude or someone related - but by that time horse, bolted and its been around since. - <@Cf'DigitalCommunist> D2, if you go to za'ha'delve, you will die. -
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:31:00 - [545] Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Are you going to back up that IRS statement? Or now that you've got no proof you're just going to ignore it? Where is that IRON dude's signature when you need it? What was it again? "CCP made me swear to absolutely secrecy?" Indeed. Enjoy "...the irs thing messed us up..." Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:31:00 - [546] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Originally by: squidgee You goons really need to gtfo and stop ruining this great gaAll of your lag exploits (hey guyz lets get 200 noob frigs into the system to siege poses! ) and whining is ruining the game. Leave eve to the people who have been playing since beta and know what their doing. You goonies can go blob warcraft with lvl 1 characters if you want to, but eve is a game of skill. Noobs like you are not meant to be in 0.0, and all your whining proves that. "You are not allowed in these regions (to beat this player, own this outpost, fly this ship) as your account is only 18 months old. Please try again in another 18 months when you mature."
Foopadoo	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:32:00 - [547] Originally by: Dianabolic I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I thought that CCP handled the whole T20 affair absolutely horribly - I think CCP handle alot of stuff horribly, but I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. It's a nice thing to throw around of course, that some of us knew certain peoples' identities but, tbh, we got that prior to this event anyway so it really makes no difference to us. The people in BoB are my friends, I trust my friends to play the game, as a game (it's why we rejected Kugs blackmail attempts) - I can't really see myself leaving. Do you honestly think anyone believes this?
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:32:00 - [548] does anyone else find RKK's ego boosting back patting thread humorous? Are you really discussing anythign or just telling yourselves how awesome you are? I bet you shower together too
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:32:00 - [549] Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Are you going to back up that IRS statement? Or now that you've got no proof you're just going to ignore it? Where is that IRON dude's signature when you need it? What was it again? "CCP made me swear to absolute secrecy?" Indeed. Dianabolic, you're doing so well addressing all the other posts in this thread. Care to address this one? Or were you just going to make claims you can't back up, like usual? "I've never seen any members of my alliance cheat" and "CCP made me swear to absolute secrecy" coming from the same guy? That's rich.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:32:00 - [550] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch You don't see there being any problem with members of your alliance being close friends with game developers? You don't see there being a problem with you using that friendship to help your members during conflicts and get members of staff fired? Can you not even see why such relationships would be viewed very sceptically by other players? If it interferes with internal stuff, ofc there is a problem. If that is the case then yes, something is wrong. But you're trying to villify us for just KNOWING them. Can YOU not see there is something wrong with that? Actually we're "villifying" you (or rather just trying to get answers) for having a member of ISD fired by contacting your CCP friends.
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:33:00 - [551] The link in the OP isn't working for me :(, it says when I click on it: No news available for this section Was it taken down? If so, why? Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Stoned Celt Bloodnok Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:33:00 - [552] Originally by: ApathyKills Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. Or at the real world angle to the gaming activities of the people you ally yourselves with. Why am I not surprised that SA goons have also started spamming sladhdot and digg too? If you're really interested in the truth, you'd wait for CCP to post their side before spamming this all over the place. You would even be able to wait until CCP says something that you supposedly have "proof" otherwise, and make them look all the more like liars. But no, it's much better to raise hell and get as much attention as you can, and keep spamming the allegations for the off chance that people that read take it at face value, you'd even create these people if you had to, if only to make it appear that 3rd party individuals actually do believe something wrong is going on. If you really hated how CCP run EVE for legitimate reasons, you'd just quit and stop paying them. But no, you have a real axe to grind, and want to take the game down. It's not enough that you stop paying CCP for their game, you want other people to stop paying too, so that CCP gets hurt more. Would you get geek cred by being able to claim that you pwned EVE? Most of you play this game because of a desire to ridicule the stereotype of the playerbase, just like what you did with Second Life. At this point, I don't know of CCP even thinks it's worth putting up with goon antics just for their monthly subscriptions. Perhaps goons anticipate that too, and thus want to make their monthy subscription worth more in that they would seek to influence other players to make their pressure group weigh more in the eyes of CCP. At any rate, when you do leave EVE, I hope it would be after your fleets learn to focus fire on primaries. It requires the same discipline as copying and pasting the same text all over the forums. This isn't the Goons that are raging. This is EVE. LOL get over yourself There's what 600 posts (some reposters and not all anti-CCP) or something out of a player base of 100,000. This is not "EVE" it's mainly the players who are getting their arses kicked by BoB and its Allies.
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:33:00 - [553] Originally by: Beka Rosselin I'll hold off comment on the basic issues until we hear more, but one thing I will say.. springing this the way you did, and at the end of the business day on a Friday no less, has no doubt put CCP into the perfect frame of mind to deal with your case in a fair and balanced manner. To everyone demanding that CCP respond to all allegations in full detail immediately, take into account when/how this was dropped on them. They need to gather information, get all the people involved to give their sides of the story, etc. And what do you want to bet that many of them had already gone home for the weekend when this whole issue came up? That's probably the intent here. To pull this antic on a weekend so that it stays up longer. During the weekend there are more people browsing stuff and reading things, and less CCP to do investigation. If they really wanted quick resolution from CCP, they'd have timed this during CCP work hours on a weekday. I don't even have to cite proof that the main reason for this stunt is controversy. None of us even know what really happened, but the goons believe it's their godgiven right to have a onesided soapbox by inundating the forums and other sources of information with themselves. Can't you even wait until next week for CCP to finish their investigation? What's with the urgency? Is this some life threatening issue that needs to get resolved by people working overtime?
Orion Intaki	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:34:00 - [554] Goonswarm black out?
Myk Taison GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:34:00 - [555] drink every time a member of BoB casually mentions they have access to GF forums!
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:35:00 - [556] Edited by: w0rmy on 26/05/2007 02:34:46 Originally by: Rebellion the goons believe it's their godgiven right to have a onesided soapbox by inundating the forums and other sources of information with themselves. And members of your alliance think that after 4 years of gaming, theyve earnt the right to special treatment. Originally by: Rebellion Can't you even wait until next week for CCP to finish their investigation? What's with the urgency? Is this some life threatening issue that needs to get resolved by people working overtime? I PAY for an even playing field, so if that field is infact not even, youre damned right I want to knwo about it now. Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness. Originally by: Dianabolic I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:35:00 - [557] Originally by: Xalorn Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. Dianabolic, you seem like a reasonable person that maybe has lost perspective on the situation. I implore you to reread why you just said & take a step back & re-evaluate your viewpoint Ignore the war with goonswarm/D2. Ignore the crude on this forum & this thread. Ignore the current politics & just take a step back & try to see this from everyone elses perspective. I'm not typing this to hurt you or upset you. Its a genuine request. On a side note, this series of posts is not like you at all. Xalorn, I've said twice now, if someone got fired, without due dilligence and investigation, purely due to a conversation initiated by "their mate" (regardless of what alliance they represent) then something IS wrong. No one is arguing that. Somehow this thread has, as many threads are nowadays, been turned towards "omg bob cheat ALL the time", whereas that is NOT the case (according to CCP... which, we know, many people do not accept, but whatever, they are the ultimate power to make that decision in this world). Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Foopadoo	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:35:00 - [558] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Beka Rosselin I'll hold off comment on the basic issues until we hear more, but one thing I will say.. springing this the way you did, and at the end of the business day on a Friday no less, has no doubt put CCP into the perfect frame of mind to deal with your case in a fair and balanced manner. To everyone demanding that CCP respond to all allegations in full detail immediately, take into account when/how this was dropped on them. They need to gather information, get all the people involved to give their sides of the story, etc. And what do you want to bet that many of them had already gone home for the weekend when this whole issue came up? That's probably the intent here. To pull this antic on a weekend so that it stays up longer. During the weekend there are more people browsing stuff and reading things, and less CCP to do investigation. If they really wanted quick resolution from CCP, they'd have timed this during CCP work hours on a weekday. I don't even have to cite proof that the main reason for this stunt is controversy. None of us even know what really happened, but the goons believe it's their godgiven right to have a onesided soapbox by inundating the forums and other sources of information with themselves. Can't you even wait until next week for CCP to finish their investigation? What's with the urgency? Is this some life threatening issue that needs to get resolved by people working overtime? It's no "dread getting bumped by a polaris frigate", that's for sure...
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:35:00 - [559] Originally by: Stoned Celt Originally by: ApathyKills This isn't the Goons that are raging. This is EVE. LOL get over yourself There's what 600 posts (some reposters and not all anti-CCP) or something out of a player base of 100,000. This is not "EVE" it's mainly the players who are getting their arses kicked by BoB and its Allies. The first two threads started on this subject in Eve General were by a SMASH member.
Robert Denby	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:35:00 - [560] Originally by: Cyllaina CCP being contacted via MSN rather than petition? Who cares? You all wish you could do such a thing Thank you for illustrating what a "non-level playing field" is. If you can't see the issue there, you're in denial.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:35:00 - [561] Originally by: Myk Taison drink every time a member of BoB casually mentions they have access to GF forums! Who doesn't have GF forum access ?
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:36:00 - [562] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Are you going to back up that IRS statement? Or now that you've got no proof you're just going to ignore it? Where is that IRON dude's signature when you need it? What was it again? "CCP made me swear to absolutely secrecy?" Indeed. Enjoy "...the irs thing messed us up..." Yes, and that post clearly shows that the money earned through the GOONFLEET affiliate program goes back into GOONFLEET, not Remedial's pocket. You're not really that stupid, right? You're just playing dumb, right?
squidgee GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:36:00 - [563] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad I'm not with bob, stfu CCP has already given you tards an answer. The dev was in your corp to fix a bug. You goons really need to gtfo and stop ruining this great game. All of your lag exploits (hey guyz lets get 200 noob frigs into the system to siege poses! ) and whining is ruining the game. Leave eve to the people who have been playing since beta and know what their doing. You goonies can go blob warcraft with lvl 1 characters if you want to, but eve is a game of skill. Noobs like you are not meant to be in 0.0, and all your whining proves that. "Wah wah CCP I cant beat bob they must be cheating!!!1" Look, BoB has admitted to cheating: Originally by: Dianabolic you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game" The fact of the matter is BoB is cheating. They cheated with T20. They fact that they're people banned illustrates the level of influence they have over CCP. Their relationship with CCP, which Dianabolic openly admits to, results in favors and opportunities (BPOs, anyone?) that are not available to other alliances. This constitutes an unfair advantage, and thus is cheating. If anything, GS is good for EVE. Offering newbies the opportunity to experience 0.0 is a good thing, regardless of what your old boys club wants.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:36:00 - [564] Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I thought that CCP handled the whole T20 affair absolutely horribly - I think CCP handle alot of stuff horribly, but I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. So what was it again that You were sworn to absolute secrecy about? Never seen any form of cheating... of course not I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:36:00 - [565] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Midgath Stallsman Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Nothing wrong with being friends. It is when your able to get people fired because they may or may not have bumped one of your dreads that it becomes an issue. As I've said, I completely agree. No sensible person can argue any different, wouldn't you agree? Wow.. this is just too much. I can only agree that Diana is a goon, or a very drunk Dev who is very bitter his weekend was ruined.
DeadWeight Minmatar Botox Bandits	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:37:00 - [566] Edited by: DeadWeight on 26/05/2007 02:38:58 I'm surprised how Dianabolic tries to deflect the issue by describing it in terms of simple friendship. Having friends is cool. If I sent an MSN message to a dev friend of mine and said "man wanna grab a couple of beers later, you in?" that would be cool. However if I said "Some ISD dude is bumping our dreads, can you get him to stop..." I would expect the response to be "Please file a petition and follow the proper channels..." If you are known to the devs as someone who files lots of bug reports and asked on #eve-chaos or MSN'd for skill xyz to magically appear to test an issue, that would be fine. I used to do Customer Service for a software company, and when a friend asked me to get my hands on a specific manual you have to order through the company, I told him to follow the proper channels. If that dev wants to act on MSN messages to get in game matters resolved, then by all means. Just be sure that everyone has his MSN handle.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:37:00 - [567] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Beka Rosselin I'll hold off comment on the basic issues until we hear more, but one thing I will say.. springing this the way you did, and at the end of the business day on a Friday no less, has no doubt put CCP into the perfect frame of mind to deal with your case in a fair and balanced manner. To everyone demanding that CCP respond to all allegations in full detail immediately, take into account when/how this was dropped on them. They need to gather information, get all the people involved to give their sides of the story, etc. And what do you want to bet that many of them had already gone home for the weekend when this whole issue came up? That's probably the intent here. To pull this antic on a weekend so that it stays up longer. During the weekend there are more people browsing stuff and reading things, and less CCP to do investigation. If they really wanted quick resolution from CCP, they'd have timed this during CCP work hours on a weekday. I don't even have to cite proof that the main reason for this stunt is controversy. None of us even know what really happened, but the goons believe it's their godgiven right to have a onesided soapbox by inundating the forums and other sources of information with themselves. Can't you even wait until next week for CCP to finish their investigation? What's with the urgency? Is this some life threatening issue that needs to get resolved by people working overtime? yah because we totally have control over when a DEV decides to infiltrate our alliance.
Foopadoo	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:37:00 - [568] Originally by: Dianabolic Somehow this thread has, as many threads are nowadays, been turned towards "omg bob cheat ALL the time", whereas that is NOT the case (according to CCP... which, we know, many people do not accept, but whatever, they are the ultimate power to make that decision in this world). I agree, BoB doesn't cheat ALL the time.
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:37:00 - [569] Originally by: Foopadoo It's no "dread getting bumped by a polaris frigate", that's for sure... You'd have a lot more credibility if you posted with your main instead of an alt that posts stuff like this: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=479711&page=4#92 Credibility would be good for your side, it'll help your argument. If you really believe that CCP is out to get you, why bother posting with an alt?
Zingo Aleig	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:38:00 - [570] I wonder if the bob guy knows he's getting sited on slashdot.com as "proof" between the relationship between BOB players and the DEVs.....
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:39:00 - [571] Originally by: Rebellion Credibility would be good for your side, it'll help your argument. If you really believe that CCP is out to get you, why bother posting with an alt? Bob members are not entitled to talk about credibility. kthxbye.
Hcraes Er Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:39:00 - [572] hey here's something you can inject into the database instead of spawning another sabre BPO $CCPMonthlyIncome = $CCPMonthlyIncome - 15*2
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:39:00 - [573] Originally by: Dianabolic Xalorn, I've said twice now, if someone got fired, without due dilligence and investigation, purely due to a conversation initiated by "their mate" (regardless of what alliance they represent) then something IS wrong. No one is arguing that. Somehow this thread has, as many threads are nowadays, been turned towards "omg bob cheat ALL the time", whereas that is NOT the case (according to CCP... which, we know, many people do not accept, but whatever, they are the ultimate power to make that decision in this world). More generally it should be said that, if ANYTHING GAME RELATED got done specifically due to the relationship between bob and the devs that wouldn't have been done otherwise (e.g. priority in petetion related matters, tips being given, etc) then something is wrong.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:39:00 - [574] Originally by: Dianabolic Somehow this thread has, as many threads are nowadays, been turned towards "omg bob cheat ALL the time", whereas that is NOT the case (according to CCP... which, we know, many people do not accept, but whatever, they are the ultimate power to make that decision in this world). Are you prepared to state categorically that BoB members have not, in fact, contacted their friends in CCP via out of game means in order to get quicker responses to issues as they arise?
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:39:00 - [575] Originally by: squidgee The fact of the matter is BoB is cheating. The only fact here is that goons have issued an order for as many of their members to start spamming the EVE forums and anything they can get their hands on.
Rongar Maximus	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:39:00 - [576] All I have to say is I hope this is handled with more transparency than the whole t20 affair.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:39:00 - [577] Originally by: Shadow Elk No one is offended that anyone has built up a relationship with CCP but the fact that ccp owns more shares in bob and bob more shares in CCP then any other corp is very troubeling... It almost seems as if... Space is being given to you by... Unfair means. But that cannot be can it? Everything that has been brought to light in recent months is jsut bull Right? You are jsut THAT good.. ^-^ No, I'm highly offended that there is a relationship between player characters and staff characters performing their duties. -------------------------------------
synor	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:39:00 - [578] I sincerely hope that the information listed at http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html is wrong, that CCP deals with this issue quickly, professionally, and openly. There's an old cliche,though, that states "where there's smoke, there's fire". These frequent complaints of conflict of interest and punishing whistle-blowers is of such a level that I can't tell where the smouldering is coming from. I want to know that I am spending money on a game that is ostensibly fair. I want to know that I can entertain myself by working towards the eventual, though unrealistic, goal of running the universe. After all, isn't half the point of playing trying to win? These constant allegations, though, leave me worried that I can't possibly win unless I am getting paid to work for the company. I sincerely hope that this time CCP is completely open about what happened. I hope that CCP doesn't threaten paying customers such as myself from discussing this. I hope that CCP seriously investigates what happens. I hope that CCP is very, very public about what it finds. I hope, if something wrong is found, that CCP fires any and all employees that participated either directly, or indirectly. Finally, it's my hope that CCP prevents the possibility of these sorts of allegations by removing these potential conflicts of interest. It's time for the fine people at CCP to decide whether they wish to play the game for fun, or want to work on the game for a living. Good luck everyone.
Foopadoo	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:39:00 - [579] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Foopadoo It's no "dread getting bumped by a polaris frigate", that's for sure... You'd have a lot more credibility if you posted with your main instead of an alt that posts stuff like this: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=479711&page=4#92 Credibility would be good for your side, it'll help your argument. If you really believe that CCP is out to get you, why bother posting with an alt? I think you are an idiot because that post was great
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:40:00 - [580] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I thought that CCP handled the whole T20 affair absolutely horribly - I think CCP handle alot of stuff horribly, but I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. So what was it again that You were sworn to absolute secrecy about? Never seen any form of cheating... of course not I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you. Who leaked the Serpentis GM event to you? Why are you afraid of answering? Why don't you even acknowledge it?
SULAN BARHIR United League of Independents	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:40:00 - [581] I think what needs to be done is clear here. CCP if you want to regain any kind of trust from your paying customers, you need to make your staff transparent. What I mean by that is, you HAVE TO MAKE IN-GAME DEV ALTS activities PUBLIC. Yes, you have to, if you want to rake in OUR MONEY. It doesn't really mater if these allegations are true or false. The fact of the matter is that if players can't trust the creators of this great game, they will not pay you. To be trusted, there can't be ANY secrecy. So what is it going to be? I wish you guys luck. Because if I quit this game because of the screwup of one of your staff, I will not quit empty handed. I WILL be reimbursed of the money that I've been paying you guys for the past two years. So make your decision.
Celestal	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:40:00 - [582] I have no side in this , but I do remember a while back when one of my accs was in 3fa , LFC corp was having some problems with a pos , sharkbait joined LFC took on roles and fixed the problem then left . I saw him in space once flying to the tower , saw him in alliance channel a few times . I also remember there were some accusations that 3fa were receiving dev `combat` assistance , totally untrue
Meh Feh	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:40:00 - [583] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Your reward for playing for 4 years are the skills you've trained and the resources you've collected. You know, stuff you've worked for. Claiming that you're entitled to some additional relationship with developers because of that is simple arrogance. The "special relationship" should be reserved for folks in organizations like ISD that commit their own time to the entire Eve communtity, not just their own elitist bunch of cronies. BoB wonders why they are loathed outside their own circles. Its not just for the cheating.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:40:00 - [584] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Foopadoo It's no "dread getting bumped by a polaris frigate", that's for sure... Credibility would be good for your side, it'll help your argument. If you really believe that CCP is out to get you, why bother posting with an alt? I dunno man, Maybe because THEY ARE AFRAID OF BEING BANNED? Also laffaux at your comment on credibility. Who's the only alliance in the history of eve to have been caught receiving unfair advantages from CCP?
Gil Panzar	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:40:00 - [585] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. /signed That they have an axe to grind fine. Word got out well enough. To continue with the spam to the point these forums are taken down goes too far even if you agree with their "drama llama" (liked that one).
Hail Xenu	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:41:00 - [586] Originally by: Dianabolic Xalorn, I've said twice now, if someone got fired, without due dilligence and investigation, purely due to a conversation initiated by "their mate" (regardless of what alliance they represent) then something IS wrong. No one is arguing that. Somehow this thread has, as many threads are nowadays, been turned towards "omg bob cheat ALL the time", whereas that is NOT the case (according to CCP... which, we know, many people do not accept, but whatever, they are the ultimate power to make that decision in this world). If this was Blizzard all the devs/GMs mentioned in this case would have been fired years ago for this behaviour, sadly CCP doesn't appreciate the value of a level playing field, if only perceived as level at least. And after you've admitted for bob that you have direct contact with CCP while people hear about the t20 thing, the serpentis core-x pinata event and manipulation of GMs/ISDs etc...I mean, don't you see the problem here?
MIa Bonet	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:41:00 - [587] One thing CCP needs to realize and act on is: perception > reality. It doesn't matter if there wasn't misconduct, they need to work as hard as they can to restore subscriber faith to overcome any bad perceptions. New players already feel disadvantaged with the notion they will never be able to catch up to the 60 million sp chars, they don't need to hear about deserved relationships with devs over the years (as someone posted before). I don't know of other mainstream MMOs where this has been a known issue and that's a good thing.
EzSnake Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:41:00 - [588] CCP -- hope you fall so hard on ur keister, and NEVER make another game!! NEXT MMO ANYONE!!!!!!!! ________________________________________________ Corrupt Company of Ploiters
Angus McDorble Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:42:00 - [589] Originally by: Myk Taison drink every time a member of BoB casually mentions they have access to GF forums! You're going to get people killed. KILLED. Look, I don't know about everybody else, I just want those that have been cheating/wrongdoing/buddybuddying this whole time to own up to it, fix the problems, and take EVE back to what made it great. All of this BoB posturing, dev secrecy, and absolute insanity is making me wish I never quit playing UO. ------------------------------- Sorry I stunk up the factory. 19d, 2h, 18m, and 12s until Caldari Industrial V is finished. Watch out, EVE. You're about to get HAULED.
Hcraes Er Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:42:00 - [590] Edited by: Hcraes Er on 26/05/2007 02:41:03 Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Beka Rosselin I'll hold off comment on the basic issues until we hear more, but one thing I will say.. springing this the way you did, and at the end of the business day on a Friday no less, has no doubt put CCP into the perfect frame of mind to deal with your case in a fair and balanced manner. To everyone demanding that CCP respond to all allegations in full detail immediately, take into account when/how this was dropped on them. They need to gather information, get all the people involved to give their sides of the story, etc. And what do you want to bet that many of them had already gone home for the weekend when this whole issue came up? That's probably the intent here. To pull this antic on a weekend so that it stays up longer. During the weekend there are more people browsing stuff and reading things, and less CCP to do investigation. If they really wanted quick resolution from CCP, they'd have timed this during CCP work hours on a weekday. I don't even have to cite proof that the main reason for this stunt is controversy. None of us even know what really happened, but the goons believe it's their godgiven right to have a onesided soapbox by inundating the forums and other sources of information with themselves. Can't you even wait until next week for CCP to finish their investigation? What's with the urgency? Is this some life threatening issue that needs to get resolved by people working overtime? Excuse me but for the vast, vast majority of the time, Goons are not allowed (at least on their mains, on pain of fines/kicking from the corp) to post on these forums except for sell orders and maybe a couple of orders, so you speaking about having the forums as a "one-sided soapbox" is borderline masturbational.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:43:00 - [591] Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I thought that CCP handled the whole T20 affair absolutely horribly - I think CCP handle alot of stuff horribly, but I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. So what was it again that You were sworn to absolute secrecy about? Never seen any form of cheating... of course not I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you. Who leaked the Serpentis GM event to you? Why are you afraid of answering? Why don't you even acknowledge it? LOL, the one that we didn't know about until we got a convo from Seleene of the MC to state that they were escorting the titan to serp prime and would we help? All of this AFTER we had teamed up with FIX to go destroy the thing? That event? rofl. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
HatfulOfHollow	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:43:00 - [592] Quote: Admiral_Chamrajnagar: ok anyone know an ISD named rekan? Macayle: why? [IC]Raekhan: I'm right here. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you need to leave that system Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you are making an ass of yourself Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and of ccp [IC]Raekhan: ? Admiral_Chamrajnagar: enticing the player base is not actions that you want to do [IC]Raekhan: What..are...you.... [IC]Raekhan: ? Cortes feels a facepalm coming on [EA]Aristaqis: enticing? Was he putting on a strip show or something? [IC]Tsuki facepalms Admiral_Chamrajnagar: the local player base asked him to politly stop pushing dreads Admiral_Chamrajnagar: that were undergoing a siege operation [IC]Raekhan: I was not pushing a dread. [IC]Raekhan: I'm 70KM away. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: it does not matter.. posting in local "no" Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and that "your not going away" Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and that all you hear is "static" Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and to complain to eris discordia Admiral_Chamrajnagar: is not helpfull at all Cortes: which wouldn't do much good given I'm the IC VA
Yankee Rebellion	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:44:00 - [593] Wow... I go away for a month or so and a buddy tells me "Hey! Check out the Digg site!" Here we go again. I'm not going to take sides on this, but one thought does come to my pointed little head.... Supposing that a Dev would actually need to join a corp to fiddle-fix a bugged POS, would he really be so stupid as to be up to monkey business with a name as well known as CCP Sharkbait? I am sure the Devs are as capabale of creating alts as any of us are and said alts would likely have the CCP suffix as well. Plus, we have all seen what happens in the chat when a dev shows up - that's big news and it isn't long before at least the entire constellation knows about it. That is what doesn't make sense to me, at least. Sneaking is done quietly to have good effect. Using a dev account for sneaking is like setting off a string of hand grenades.
Kam SingDu'k Singularity. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:44:00 - [594] Originally by: Foopadoo Originally by: Dianabolic And, if you guys for one minute tried to engage with the community rather than turn it in to your (self coined phrase) "goons in space" you may actually get that kind of contact. Apparently they didn't know the community they were supposed to engage with was the dev community Bull----, If you don't see the problem glaring you in the face then let me re-iterate. Players with GM/Devs/ISD on their msn and various mediums OTHER than eve client is bad. It eliminates the point of accountability in the game (not like much has been evident anyhow sorry ccp). With chats with various CCP employees and helpers the senior administration can refer back to logs as evidence. However, when two people chat on msn there are no logs kept. Anything can be said without much fear of reprisal. THAT is the problem. I don't mind professional relationships between ccp staff and members of the gaming community. I do mind CCP staff freely giving out their emails to players for talking out of game. CCP staff do need friends, but they should not risk the game for it. Dianabolic, your shifts over, time for the other BoB HC to take over
BuyN Sell	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:44:00 - [595] Originally by: Dianabolic I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I thought that CCP handled the whole T20 affair absolutely horribly - I think CCP handle alot of stuff horribly, but I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. So you didn't know that a CCP employee was in your company in the past? You also didn't know that he left BPO's when he suddenly left your company? Interesting, the trail of evidence that led to T20 being outed also divulged your knowledge of these events. Please, continue to openly lie.
conation	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:45:00 - [596] Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: Dianabolic Oh really? Seleene doesn't speak to the dev team? Virtuozzo? TRIGGER never did? How about CYVOK? All of those people have Dev (and higher) contacts on their msn. What do you have to say to that? I thought this was all overblown until Rebellion and you came out and admitted that you really do talk to the dev teams and have special lines that we don't. When GS has a major problem due to a bug, we have to use the petition system. A system filled with quite a few people who don't have a full understanding of game mechanics. We wait weeks for reimbursements, and sometimes never get the proper (and obvious) outcome. Same with LV, same with nearly every other alliance in the game. When the server resets and POSes can be refueled with stront while in reinforce, we have to send petitions to fix it. And then we get told that they don't have server logs of it going into reinforce and therefore can not be helped (even as the POSes are coming out of reinforce in front of our eyes). You get to contact your own dev and say "hey there's this stront bug sure is weird could you help us out?" We don't get to give input to the devs directly. One of our members had to post a freaking manifesto on Titans, only to get the response of "thanks for all the work" weeks later. Sure would help just to send a quick IM to a buddy and say "hey these Titan things are unbalanced!" You have systematically lied to the eve community about your relationship with the developers. You have lied about t20. You lie, lie, and lie some more. You had GM events leaked to you PERSONALLY Dianabolic, and yet you are still unapologetic. (Who leaked them, anyway? Now is a good time to say, since we're all here talking about corruption. Maybe Internal Affairs would be interested.) Are you truly unable to figure out how disgusting it is that one alliance is allowed to have the ear of the developers while everyone else is excluded? I mean, I didn't realize that playing for a long time gives you such special privileges. It's time to end this. It's time for CCP to come clean, and it's time for the lies to stop.
Stoned Celt Bloodnok Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:45:00 - [597] Originally by: Magritz I love "post away" threads like this one. It's akin to letting a child cry and scream. "He'll get over it.." Like t20.. there's outrage and people go back to their business. I honestly don't understand why CCP isn't forthcoming. They don't seem to take much stock in their credibility. Is it cultural? An Icelandic thing? No it's probably a morning thing, it's around 3 a.m. there atm.. perhaps they are sleeping. I don't know how many of you work at 3 a.m. in the morning.
Dalaakita Vendro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:46:00 - [598] Oh, and CCP, I hope you're not counting on keeping your income once Age of Conan / PotbS come out because son the only goddamn reason a lot of people are playing EVE is because of the cutthroat PvP, and once there's a competitor for that with a, you know, level playing field (and that isn't ten years old I'm looking at you UO), you nordic motherfuckers is screwed.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:46:00 - [599] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I thought that CCP handled the whole T20 affair absolutely horribly - I think CCP handle alot of stuff horribly, but I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. So what was it again that You were sworn to absolute secrecy about? Never seen any form of cheating... of course not I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you. Who leaked the Serpentis GM event to you? Why are you afraid of answering? Why don't you even acknowledge it? LOL, the one that we didn't know about until we got a convo from Seleene of the MC to state that they were escorting the titan to serp prime and would we help? All of this AFTER we had teamed up with FIX to go destroy the thing? That event? rofl. Dian, I tried to teach my 21 month old kid how to do physics the other day. It was about as useful as you trying to use logic, reason, or facts on the forums. Trust me, just stick to flaming them, it's all they understand.
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:46:00 - [600] Originally by: Stoned Celt Originally by: ApathyKills Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. Or at the real world angle to the gaming activities of the people you ally yourselves with. Why am I not surprised that SA goons have also started spamming sladhdot and digg too? If you're really interested in the truth, you'd wait for CCP to post their side before spamming this all over the place. You would even be able to wait until CCP says something that you supposedly have "proof" otherwise, and make them look all the more like liars. But no, it's much better to raise hell and get as much attention as you can, and keep spamming the allegations for the off chance that people that read take it at face value, you'd even create these people if you had to, if only to make it appear that 3rd party individuals actually do believe something wrong is going on. If you really hated how CCP run EVE for legitimate reasons, you'd just quit and stop paying them. But no, you have a real axe to grind, and want to take the game down. It's not enough that you stop paying CCP for their game, you want other people to stop paying too, so that CCP gets hurt more. Would you get geek cred by being able to claim that you pwned EVE? Most of you play this game because of a desire to ridicule the stereotype of the playerbase, just like what you did with Second Life. At this point, I don't know of CCP even thinks it's worth putting up with goon antics just for their monthly subscriptions. Perhaps goons anticipate that too, and thus want to make their monthy subscription worth more in that they would seek to influence other players to make their pressure group weigh more in the eyes of CCP. At any rate, when you do leave EVE, I hope it would be after your fleets learn to focus fire on primaries. It requires the same discipline as copying and pasting the same text all over the forums. This isn't the Goons that are raging. This is EVE. LOL get over yourself There's what 600 posts (some reposters and not all anti-CCP) or something out of a player base of 100,000. This is not "EVE" it's mainly the players who are getting their arses kicked by BoB and its Allies. I challenge you to find a thread that has increased from 0-20 pages this fast. This is the current EVE playerbase that is online on the forums. Numerous other people have said that this is the first time they've ever posted on EVE-O. Rethink your thoughts, assuming they qualified to be labeled as such. BTW I'm in no way involved in the war. At all. Don't assume, it makes you look bad
Ian Graeme	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:47:00 - [601] It seems to me that all of the accusations have CCP in a fairly bad spot. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Anything they say is going set off part of the commiunity. If they come back and say there was no developer misconduct, there is at least a third of the community that will crucify them. If they say there WAS misconduct the another third of the community that will crucify them. On the other hand, the remaining third will chime in on just because it's CCP and they are looking for a reason to bash them. Guys, I have only been playing for about 6 months but I have heard it all. From the accusations of the devs trying to nerf someone's weapon system of choice to even that BOB is cheating because some are freinds with the devs. Hell, some folks have even told that BOB is the devs. I think that everyone needs to chill and let CCP figure out what went wrong. Also realize that things may change as they dig further into the issue.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:47:00 - [602] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Beka Rosselin I'll hold off comment on the basic issues until we hear more, but one thing I will say.. springing this the way you did, and at the end of the business day on a Friday no less, has no doubt put CCP into the perfect frame of mind to deal with your case in a fair and balanced manner. To everyone demanding that CCP respond to all allegations in full detail immediately, take into account when/how this was dropped on them. They need to gather information, get all the people involved to give their sides of the story, etc. And what do you want to bet that many of them had already gone home for the weekend when this whole issue came up? That's probably the intent here. To pull this antic on a weekend so that it stays up longer. During the weekend there are more people browsing stuff and reading things, and less CCP to do investigation. If they really wanted quick resolution from CCP, they'd have timed this during CCP work hours on a weekday. I don't even have to cite proof that the main reason for this stunt is controversy. None of us even know what really happened, but the goons believe it's their godgiven right to have a onesided soapbox by inundating the forums and other sources of information with themselves. Can't you even wait until next week for CCP to finish their investigation? What's with the urgency? Is this some life threatening issue that needs to get resolved by people working overtime? The usual BoB one-sided soapbox is just awesome. How dare the people who have played the game for four years and have a direct line to the devs in their IM contacts not get to dictate the course of conversation. Every BoD post just makes you people look sillier.
Hcraes Er Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:47:00 - [603] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Poolpy Bob members are not entitled to talk about credibility. kthxbye. Oh, and you are? So I'm suppposed to be gagged? What's with all the outrage at goon spammers - I mean honest, unpremeditated 3rd party outrage - having their spam threads locked - i mean censored? Why would I even believe that you had the truth as your objective when all of you lot have spammed this same thread with one-liners for the purpose of trolling, in the hope of getting a response from us that you can then twist into a bigger troll? Hey man I know how we can solve the problem, we can make a minimum 10m SP required to post on the forums or else you're hard-locked out, that'll put them goddamn Goonies in their place.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:48:00 - [604] Edited by: Stahlregen on 26/05/2007 02:47:37 Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Poolpy Bob members are not entitled to talk about credibility. kthxbye. Oh, and you are? So I'm suppposed to be gagged? What's with all the outrage at goon spammers - I mean honest, unpremeditated 3rd party outrage - having their spam threads locked - i mean censored? Why would I even believe that you had the truth as your objective when all of you lot have spammed this same thread with one-liners for the purpose of trolling, in the hope of getting a response from us that you can then twist into a bigger troll? Unless you got your own delorean sitting in your garage that you can use to go back in time and prevent the t20 scandal from ever getting out and help your parents get together at the school prom then you are not allowed to have a credible opinion on this matter.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:48:00 - [605] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I thought that CCP handled the whole T20 affair absolutely horribly - I think CCP handle alot of stuff horribly, but I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. So what was it again that You were sworn to absolute secrecy about? Never seen any form of cheating... of course not I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you. Who leaked the Serpentis GM event to you? Why are you afraid of answering? Why don't you even acknowledge it? LOL, the one that we didn't know about until we got a convo from Seleene of the MC to state that they were escorting the titan to serp prime and would we help? All of this AFTER we had teamed up with FIX to go destroy the thing? That event? rofl. Dian, I tried to teach my 21 month old kid how to do physics the other day. It was about as useful as you trying to use logic, reason, or facts on the forums. Trust me, just stick to flaming them, it's all they understand. If by flaming, you mean post by post admitting he and other BOB people have personal relations with CCP staff, then yes, please continue flaming.
Myk Taison GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:49:00 - [606] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Poolpy Bob members are not entitled to talk about credibility. kthxbye. Oh, and you are? So I'm suppposed to be gagged? What's with all the outrage at goon spammers - I mean honest, unpremeditated 3rd party outrage - having their spam threads locked - i mean censored? Why would I even believe that you had the truth as your objective when all of you lot have spammed this same thread with one-liners for the purpose of trolling, in the hope of getting a response from us that you can then twist into a bigger troll? calm down
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:49:00 - [607] Originally by: Dalaakita Vendro Oh, and CCP, I hope you're not counting on keeping your income once Age of Conan / PotbS come out because son the only goddamn reason a lot of people are playing EVE is because of the cutthroat PvP, and once there's a competitor for that with a, you know, level playing field (and that isn't ten years old I'm looking at you UO), you nordic motherfuckers is screwed. Why so much anger? CCP doesn't force you to play EVE.
Arthur Miller GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:49:00 - [608] Originally by: Dianabolic I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. It's ok we have and CCP has already documented that fact once in the past.
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:49:00 - [609] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Xalorn Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. Dianabolic, you seem like a reasonable person that maybe has lost perspective on the situation. I implore you to reread why you just said & take a step back & re-evaluate your viewpoint Ignore the war with goonswarm/D2. Ignore the crude on this forum & this thread. Ignore the current politics & just take a step back & try to see this from everyone elses perspective. I'm not typing this to hurt you or upset you. Its a genuine request. On a side note, this series of posts is not like you at all. Xalorn, I've said twice now, if someone got fired, without due dilligence and investigation, purely due to a conversation initiated by "their mate" (regardless of what alliance they represent) then something IS wrong. No one is arguing that. Somehow this thread has, as many threads are nowadays, been turned towards "omg bob cheat ALL the time", whereas that is NOT the case (according to CCP... which, we know, many people do not accept, but whatever, they are the ultimate power to make that decision in this world). That's not the issue at all. The issue is that you HAVE cheated. It was acknowledged. In the real world when organizations cheat they are forced to disband. That's just how it goes, so suck it up and deal with it that since you haven't been forced to break apart you ARE being given preferential treatment and it ISN'T fair/right.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:49:00 - [610] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I thought that CCP handled the whole T20 affair absolutely horribly - I think CCP handle alot of stuff horribly, but I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. So what was it again that You were sworn to absolute secrecy about? Never seen any form of cheating... of course not I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you. Who leaked the Serpentis GM event to you? Why are you afraid of answering? Why don't you even acknowledge it? LOL, the one that we didn't know about until we got a convo from Seleene of the MC to state that they were escorting the titan to serp prime and would we help? All of this AFTER we had teamed up with FIX to go destroy the thing? That event? rofl. Dian, I tried to teach my 21 month old kid how to do physics the other day. It was about as useful as you trying to use logic, reason, or facts on the forums. Trust me, just stick to flaming them, it's all they understand. It would appear that your 21 month old diapermonkey is reciprocating by teaching you how to post.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:49:00 - [611] Originally by: Rebellion Why would I even believe that you had the truth as your objective when all of you lot have spammed this same thread with one-liners for the purpose of trolling, in the hope of getting a response from us that you can then twist into a bigger troll? Relax, we are just having a friendly chat with Dianabolic here, go farm a broken 10/10, spawn some T2 bpos or whatever makes you BoB guys relax.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:50:00 - [612] Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends ... Seleene doesn't speak to the dev team? Virtuozzo? TRIGGER never did? How about CYVOK? All of those people have Dev (and higher) contacts on their msn. What do you have to say to that? Dianabolic, listen to an old enemy and calm down before you post any more. You are alienating most players with your comments. I might be on the other side in the war, but I am with you in my love for the game. Let's not spoil it. And with dev friendships, you and the devs you are friends with have an especially hard responsibility: Be friends all you want, that is good. But use normal in-game channels for everything, including bug reporting etc. Have a laugh with the devs on how long it took to get your petition on whatever answered, like other players do. MSN for any in-game matters should be an absolute NONO! EVE in general is a great game. The community has grown over the years, but I still think most in the community want nothing than the best for EVE. That is the reason for the outcry we see in situations like this one. People want the great game they play to be fair. I hope you will agree it should be. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Dalaakita Vendro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:50:00 - [613] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Dalaakita Vendro Oh, and CCP, I hope you're not counting on keeping your income once Age of Conan / PotbS come out because son the only goddamn reason a lot of people are playing EVE is because of the cutthroat PvP, and once there's a competitor for that with a, you know, level playing field (and that isn't ten years old I'm looking at you UO), you nordic motherfuckers is screwed. Why so much anger? CCP doesn't force you to play EVE. No, the currently live MMOs do. CCP has quite honestly - I don't intend offense this is just what I've seen - one of, if not the most incompetent staffs of any MMO developer.
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:50:00 - [614] Originally by: Zchiavo So were you the person playing Orange Species at the time that the ISD member was fired, or was it someone else in BoD? No no, its was the account holder for that character, because sharing it is an EULA violation, and that would be bad Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness. Originally by: Dianabolic I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
LancerSix Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:50:00 - [615] Hey goons! Now that your little train has derailed bigtime, you'd rather cry than fight. See you in hell.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:51:00 - [616] Edited by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on 26/05/2007 02:52:44 Originally by: squidgee Look, BoB has admitted to cheating: Originally by: Dianabolic you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game" The fact of the matter is BoB is cheating. They cheated with T20. They fact that they're people banned illustrates the level of influence they have over CCP. Their relationship with CCP, which Dianabolic openly admits to, results in favors and opportunities (BPOs, anyone?) that are not available to other alliances. This constitutes an unfair advantage, and thus is cheating. If anything, GS is good for EVE. Offering newbies the opportunity to experience 0.0 is a good thing, regardless of what your old boys club wants. That is not cheating it is making friends. Goonies wouldn't know about friends since they just ruin games, but bob likes to be friends with people because they like the game. So they happen to make friends with GMs and devs? So what? Maybe if you goonies had been in the game as long as they had you would be friends with devs too. Bob is just doing what any normel humans would do. Because we are normal human beings who just enjoy eve, unlike you t1 goonies who just want to ruin it. Stop whining and go back to syndicate and come back once you have the SP to take bob on instead of trying to drag their good name through the mud. Originally by: Kaldaine "You are not allowed in these regions (to beat this player, own this outpost, fly this ship) as your account is only 18 months old. Please try again in another 18 months when you mature." That is how eve works, get over it.
AngryCanuk Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:51:00 - [617] Edited by: AngryCanuk on 26/05/2007 02:52:53 Double Post Honor does not have to be defended. - Robert J. Sawyer
Myk Taison GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:52:00 - [618] Originally by: LancerSix Hey goons! Now that your little train has derailed bigtime, you'd rather cry than fight. See you in hell. ok buddy :)
AngryCanuk Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:52:00 - [619] The word comes out...again.....about ccp and bob. Everyone knew it was true before, and now we are getting more and more proof. Sad really, extreamly sad.... Guess i know why that titan wasnt moved out of system, and just "asked" to move after POS bowling a CVA tower 6 times.... Honor does not have to be defended. - Robert J. Sawyer
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:52:00 - [620] Originally by: Stahlregen Unless you got your own delorean sitting in your garage that you can use to go back in time and prevent the t20 scandal from ever getting out and help your parents get together at the school prom then you are not allowed to have a credible opinion on this matter. What part about t20 saying that he was alone in what he did escapes you? My credibility is not for me to dictate or for you to decide. People decide what they want to believe. If they don't believe what I say then that's their decision. You goons should understand this. After all, you're not interested in proving anything, you just want people to believe the allegations, because as long as they believe unsubstantiated accusations, it's enough.
Hail Xenu	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:52:00 - [621] Originally by: LancerSix Hey goons! Now that your little train has derailed bigtime, you'd rather cry than fight. See you in hell. Why dont you surrender to bob about it.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:53:00 - [622] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Poolpy Bob members are not entitled to talk about credibility. kthxbye. Oh, and you are? So I'm suppposed to be gagged? What's with all the outrage at goon spammers - I mean honest, unpremeditated 3rd party outrage - having their spam threads locked - i mean censored? Why would I even believe that you had the truth as your objective when all of you lot have spammed this same thread with one-liners for the purpose of trolling, in the hope of getting a response from us that you can then twist into a bigger troll? Yes, I'm credible. Why ? Because I'm not in an alliance that had some history about cheating (t20?). It's simple at that. Anyways, try to spin that if you like to troll and spam this thread with you wall of text.
Korr E'Hahnah Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:53:00 - [623] Originally by: TrevorReznik It's unfortunate that we don't have the MSN addresses of devs to talk to when people bump us. Unfortunately we have to use these forums instead. Agreed. Signed, Paying (for now) Customer
Kuga Kita Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:54:00 - [624] /me grabs another handful of popcorn OM***ingGawd... i love you people... I dont think i could quit eve... gotta have my stories* I ♥
Vaustrien	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:54:00 - [625] Maybe CCP really is looking out for our best interests. I mean, all the time you spend on an internet spaceships game takes away from constructive things you can be doing for yourself in real life. They are helping you leave so you can go on with your life, so you can obtain a well paying job, not be (too) overweight, at least, maybe get laid here and there, and just generally be a contributing member of society. Then there are those who are incapable of the above, but there's gotta be something you can give them to make their lives feel rewarding. Hi, Dianabolic, how are you feeling today?
Mith'raw'nuruodo	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:55:00 - [626] I am highly worried about CCP's deletion of the initial thread concerning BOB's involvement in an ISD member losing his job, the news that the RP events are rigged, and the abuse of power by CCP Sharkbait when he made himself a director in DS1. I'm not a fan of spamming forums relentlessly and threadnaughting, but when a well thought out and sensible argument is instantly deleted I see no other choice than radical action. The attempts at silencing and banning all people who present an opposing opinion or that want answers for what CCP has done is disturbingly similar to the alien and sedition acts. The instance of Band of Brothers players being able to get a ISD player fired in less than a few minutes is a very shocking thing to hear. I was quite used to hearing "lol bob=ccp" and never really took it seriously because I considered the t20 incident to be a thing of the past. Learning about this drastically changed the way I think about CCP, and I would very much like an explanation for this because it was never addressed. The idea that CCP intentionally rigs RP events is another shocking concept. The fact that CCP thinks that it is a good idea for them to decide the final outcome of a competition is nothing more than making a fancy process for giving away very valuable ships and items to the corporation that they like most. By rigging RP events CCP is making sanctioned events that are very similar to the t20 incident: they give valuable assets to the corporation they like the most. If CCP would be so kind as to explain the logic behind this I'm sure that many of us would appreciate it greatly. While I'm glad that the DS1 incident was addressed, I feel that we are not getting the full story. I would like to believe that CCP Sharkbait was simply doing his job, but there is too much unexplained evidence. First off, there was no petition filed in the first place to alert CCP about a bug. The second suspicious part is that he promoted himself to the position of director almost immediately which strikes me as odd because I don't see how that is relevant to fixing a bug, and then the fact that he never told anyone that he had done anything. The icing on the cake is the ignored unanswered petitions regarding the incident. The excuse that he "was just fixing a bug" comes across as a pale lie and many of us would gladly appreciate a more in-depth explanation. I had a good amount of respect for CCP before this and had put the t20 incident behind me. The fact that CCP could only respond by throwing up an incredibly vague response to the CCP Sharkbait incident and the complete sidestepping of the other two issues has shaken my trust in them severely. I'm not alone in wanting answers for these questions. The amount of effort it took to get CCP to even respond to these allegations is appalling and I wish that threadnaughting wasn't our only option, but without it the questions would never be answered.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:56:00 - [627] Relax guys !! BoB is a cheater NOT GOONIES Read local channel near the end Well i know , it will be like that : Goons member : LOL u edited Local Goons member Nr 2 : HA we ****** u up Goons member nr 2141: LOL , we dont cheat , its BOD who cheats , we only using RL $ , but not cheating with devs. Another goon member : u suck , u lamer ------------- Let the flames begins !!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:57:00 - [628] Originally by: Rebellion My credibility is not for me to dictate or for you to decide. People decide what they want to believe. If they don't believe what I say then that's their decision. You goons should understand this. After all, you're not interested in proving anything, you just want people to believe the allegations, because as long as they believe unsubstantiated accusations, it's enough. You're the ones in trouble here, not us. Your damage control mode is entertaining, but it's pretty worthless when we have an alliance member of yours admitting pretty much everything a few pages back.
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:58:00 - [629] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Poolpy Bob members are not entitled to talk about credibility. kthxbye. Oh, and you are? So I'm suppposed to be gagged? What's with all the outrage at goon spammers - I mean honest, unpremeditated 3rd party outrage - having their spam threads locked - i mean censored? Why would I even believe that you had the truth as your objective when all of you lot have spammed this same thread with one-liners for the purpose of trolling, in the hope of getting a response from us that you can then twist into a bigger troll? nonononono you clearly have reading issues, let me quote what you quoted without a forum quote but quotations (i REALLY hope you understood that because you're seriously lacking today), in fact I'll explain as I go along, "Bob members," people like you, "are not entitled," this means you can't do something, "to talk about credibility," i really can't make this any more idiot-proof, if you can't understand this I suggest you take some 3rd grade english classes or something. "kthxbye," the end.
arghy steelwill GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:58:00 - [630] Will all your findings be publicly posted or will you try to hide it again and let us find out your lyeing to us again?.
Myk Taison GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:58:00 - [631] Originally by: Inturist Relax guys !! BoB is a cheater NOT GOONIES Read local channel near the end Well i know , it will be like that : Goons member : LOL u edited Local Goons member Nr 2 : HA we ****** u up Goons member nr 2141: LOL , we dont cheat , its BOD who cheats , we only using RL $ , but not cheating with devs. Another goon member : u suck , u lamer ------------- Let the flames begins !!! are you high or something
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:58:00 - [632] Originally by: Poolpy Yes, I'm credible. Why ? Because I'm not in an alliance that had some history about cheating (t20?). It's simple at that. Anyways, try to spin that if you like to troll and spam this thread with you wall of text. I've intentionally avoided quoting entire lengths of posts to make my replies readable. I'm also using proper punctuation and avoiding run-ons. I'm not writing walls of text, and I'm also not writing short diatribes with the intent to create an argument. The problem with your account is that it's an alt. I'm not sure if I even have to elaborate on that along being bereft of credibility enough. Let us assume that you are right, and that CCP has this overall goal of making BoB win, and making it rain all the time on the goons. Why would you even be afraid of being banned when using your main account, they'd know it anyway. Why bother posting with an alt? By posting with your main, you let everyone know that your opinion is backed by the wealth of experience that is proven by your affiliation and corp history. It then becomes their decision to judge your credibility. This is, of course, assuming you're interested in anything but provoking an argument, just to make the issue more blown up.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:58:00 - [633] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Stahlregen Unless you got your own delorean sitting in your garage that you can use to go back in time and prevent the t20 scandal from ever getting out and help your parents get together at the school prom then you are not allowed to have a credible opinion on this matter. What part about t20 saying that he was alone in what he did escapes you? My credibility is not for me to dictate or for you to decide. People decide what they want to believe. If they don't believe what I say then that's their decision. You goons should understand this. After all, you're not interested in proving anything, you just want people to believe the allegations, because as long as they believe unsubstantiated accusations, it's enough. Dian seems to have substantiated it just fine thank you very much.
Hail Xenu	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:59:00 - [634] Originally by: Inturist Relax guys !! BoB is a cheater NOT GOONIES Read local channel near the end Well i know , it will be like that : Goons member : LOL u edited Local Goons member Nr 2 : HA we ****** u up Goons member nr 2141: LOL , we dont cheat , its BOD who cheats , we only using RL $ , but not cheating with devs. Another goon member : u suck , u lamer ------------- Let the flames begins !!! In case you even care about completely unrelated and nonsensical matters then at least take into account that D-L is a BoB slave alliance living in Period Basis, just to keep things fair and balanced.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:59:00 - [635] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Stahlregen Unless you got your own delorean sitting in your garage that you can use to go back in time and prevent the t20 scandal from ever getting out and help your parents get together at the school prom then you are not allowed to have a credible opinion on this matter. What part about t20 saying that he was alone in what he did escapes you? My credibility is not for me to dictate or for you to decide. People decide what they want to believe. If they don't believe what I say then that's their decision. You goons should understand this. After all, you're not interested in proving anything, you just want people to believe the allegations, because as long as they believe unsubstantiated accusations, it's enough. Nuh uh, You don't get to do that. If you want to lump all those goonies together like you freaking love to do. Right, You know what i'm talking about don't you? Hell, you even refer to it by refering to us as "you goons" Your alliance cheated and was proved to have accepted help from CCP, you have admitted to having private discourse with CCP employees therfore according to your own logic because one of your corp members who also happened to be a Dev was caught cheating the rest of your alliance are cheaters. And why are you toting your credibility (That is purely judged accordingly to the posts in this thread, like you say) when, by easily seeing from the majority of the outraged posts directed right at you show that your credibility is absolutely ****house?
Xiaodown Lyran Procurement	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:00:00 - [636] Posted on Slashdot a while ago: Quote: As a member of ISD (Score:4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25, @09:24PM (#19278713) Sharkbait story has no merit. Other one really happened on irc: Admiral_Chamrajnagar: ok anyone know an ISD named rekan? Macayle: why? [IC]Raekhan: I'm right here. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you need to leave that system Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you are making an ass of yourself Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and of ccp [IC]Raekhan: ? Admiral_Chamrajnagar: enticing the player base is not actions that you want to do [IC]Raekhan: What..are...you.... [IC]Raekhan: ? Cortes feels a facepalm coming on [EA]Aristaqis: enticing? Was he putting on a strip show or something? [IC]Tsuki facepalms Admiral_Chamrajnagar: the local player base asked him to politly stop pushing dreads Admiral_Chamrajnagar: that were undergoing a siege operation [IC]Raekhan: I was not pushing a dread. [IC]Raekhan: I'm 70KM away. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: it does not matter.. posting in local "no" Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and that "your not going away" Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and that all you hear is "static" Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and to complain to eris discordia Admiral_Chamrajnagar: is not helpfull at all Cortes: which wouldn't do much good given I'm the IC VA That was the last I've seen of Raekhan. Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Reading that and adding in the chat logs from local on "HIS" site, it seems like the ISD guy was being confrontational, and if he's not supposed to do that (saying the stuff about hearing static, and saying "no", etc...) - if that's against the ISD rules, then that's the end of that. ~X -- Lyran procurement is offering trit and mixed-min compression services to 0.0 alliances. Free transport to 0.5+ systems, 1 jump 0.4 sys for 10M. Contact me for details. Minimums apply.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:00:00 - [637] Originally by: arghy steelwill Will all your findings be publicly posted or will you try to hide it again and let us find out your lyeing to us again?. I'm guessing it'll be something like: "Oh my we had quite a misunderstanding at the office, but everything is ok now, we promise. Really."
invaderzim Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:00:00 - [638] Seriously 23 pages so far? Gj ppl. The only people with any credibility on this issue are members of DS1. The whole of this thread (as stated by a previous poster) is to give members of the eve community a controlled environment to vent their frustrations... in a place that can be controlled and contained. ----------------- "Oh, he's very popular Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, **s, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, **heads - they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude."
B'reanna	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:00:00 - [639] Frankly, I think that the only way to resolve this issue is the Breakup of BoB. Separate the parties allegedly involve. If BoB is to continue then let it be done on equal term with other alliances. As a "paying" customer It is not only wrong but breeches any good faith on the part of our "purchase". People seem to have forgotten how to truly take care of ALL of us not a selected few.
James 315 Yet Another CAOD-Inspired 1-Man Alt Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:00:00 - [640] Originally by: Rebellion My credibility is not for me to dictate or for you to decide. People decide what they want to believe. If they don't believe what I say then that's their decision. Don't take this the wrong way, this isn't a personal swipe. I think you have done a good job in the past at debating, speech-writing, spin, PR, whatever you want to call it. But at this point, you are carrying around a lot of unnecessary baggage. Look at the press secretaries in American politics. They have to tow the party line all the time, but eventually their credibility gets used up and they get replaced every few years. I think you should consult with SirMolle tomorrow about whether it's time for someone else to step in and take up the burden. That doesn't mean you haven't done a good job, it just means your name has been attached to too much stuff that gets in the way of your message.
Dyeadmheet Caldari Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:01:00 - [641] I have, as my preliminary response to this lingering conflict of interests, canceled the autorenewal on my account.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:01:00 - [642] Originally by: Hail Xenu Originally by: Inturist Relax guys !! BoB is a cheater NOT GOONIES Read local channel near the end Well i know , it will be like that : Goons member : LOL u edited Local Goons member Nr 2 : HA we ****** u up Goons member nr 2141: LOL , we dont cheat , its BOD who cheats , we only using RL $ , but not cheating with devs. Another goon member : u suck , u lamer ------------- Let the flames begins !!! In case you even care about completely unrelated and nonsensical matters then at least take into account that D-L is a BoB slave alliance living in Period Basis, just to keep things fair and balanced. U can call us BoB slaves , ect , we do live in PB , but u also accept the fact -> 9$ . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:01:00 - [643] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I thought that CCP handled the whole T20 affair absolutely horribly - I think CCP handle alot of stuff horribly, but I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. So what was it again that You were sworn to absolute secrecy about? Never seen any form of cheating... of course not I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you. Who leaked the Serpentis GM event to you? Why are you afraid of answering? Why don't you even acknowledge it? LOL, the one that we didn't know about until we got a convo from Seleene of the MC to state that they were escorting the titan to serp prime and would we help? All of this AFTER we had teamed up with FIX to go destroy the thing? That event? rofl. No. Not that event. Keep spinning though. Pretty much everyone knows the real story. You and your alliance are all out of credibility. You admitted to having a special relationship with the devs. That's the equivalent of maybe buying the ref some beers every once and awhile.
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:02:00 - [644] Originally by: ApathyKills nonononono you clearly have reading issues, let me quote what you quoted without a forum quote but quotations (i REALLY hope you understood that because you're seriously lacking today), in fact I'll explain as I go along, "Bob members," people like you, "are not entitled," this means you can't do something, "to talk about credibility," i really can't make this any more idiot-proof, if you can't understand this I suggest you take some 3rd grade english classes or something. "kthxbye," the end. Why can I talk about credibility? If I have no credibility then my words would have no weight anyway, so there's no harm in my speaking. English isn't my first language, but I try my best to make myself understood. I'd say more, but you're just another alt. I get the feeling that I'm just talking to the same person.
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:02:00 - [645] Originally by: Myk Taison Originally by: LancerSix Hey goons! Now that your little train has derailed bigtime, you'd rather cry than fight. See you in hell. ok buddy :) I got me some dinner reservations there, should be a classy event
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:02:00 - [646] Originally by: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Stahlregen Unless you got your own delorean sitting in your garage that you can use to go back in time and prevent the t20 scandal from ever getting out and help your parents get together at the school prom then you are not allowed to have a credible opinion on this matter. What part about t20 saying that he was alone in what he did escapes you? My credibility is not for me to dictate or for you to decide. People decide what they want to believe. If they don't believe what I say then that's their decision. You goons should understand this. After all, you're not interested in proving anything, you just want people to believe the allegations, because as long as they believe unsubstantiated accusations, it's enough. Dian seems to have substantiated it just fine thank you very much. Mind showing us where? Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Hail Xenu	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:02:00 - [647] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Poolpy Yes, I'm credible. Why ? Because I'm not in an alliance that had some history about cheating (t20?). It's simple at that. Anyways, try to spin that if you like to troll and spam this thread with you wall of text. I've intentionally avoided quoting entire lengths of posts to make my replies readable. I'm also using proper punctuation and avoiding run-ons. I'm not writing walls of text, and I'm also not writing short diatribes with the intent to create an argument. The problem with your account is that it's an alt. I'm not sure if I even have to elaborate on that along being bereft of credibility enough. Let us assume that you are right, and that CCP has this overall goal of making BoB win, and making it rain all the time on the goons. Why would you even be afraid of being banned when using your main account, they'd know it anyway. Why bother posting with an alt? By posting with your main, you let everyone know that your opinion is backed by the wealth of experience that is proven by your affiliation and corp history. It then becomes their decision to judge your credibility. This is, of course, assuming you're interested in anything but provoking an argument, just to make the issue more blown up. As you know, having GS forum access and all, most goons are banned from eve-o forums and have to use trial account alts to post. Using an alt does not make the points made less valid, decent way to divert the argument when you are losing, I guess. Well, maybe not.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:03:00 - [648] Originally by: Bu Jinkan No. Not that event. Keep spinning though. Pretty much everyone knows the real story. You and your alliance are all out of credibility. You admitted to having a special relationship with the devs. That's the equivalent of maybe buying the ref some beers every once and awhile. So do you mean the serpentis event where we lost 2(?) dreadnoughts and got a load of crappy shadow serp loot? C'mon, be specific, because you DO know what you're talking about, don't you? Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:03:00 - [649] I really hope this makes goons leave eve, I got my fingers crossed. Take your nerd rage somewhere else kthx. The are getting owned in the face so bad they got nerd rage coming out of every pore of their teenage bodies. As for everyone else, go to delve and get some. Oh wait.
Igus	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:03:00 - [650] My simple question is what can be done, I've already canceled my other account and I'm tempted to do it here. But what in all honestly can be done about it? - Ban all bob? probably wouldn't be right because I'm sure somewhere in there there are those that had no part of this. - Breakup the alliance? that would be pointless could just reform. but i see all the talk about how its all bad and everything but what can be done other than us just canceling our accounts?
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:03:00 - [651] Originally by: James 315 Originally by: Rebellion My credibility is not for me to dictate or for you to decide. People decide what they want to believe. If they don't believe what I say then that's their decision. Don't take this the wrong way, this isn't a personal swipe. I think you have done a good job in the past at debating, speech-writing, spin, PR, whatever you want to call it. But at this point, you are carrying around a lot of unnecessary baggage. Look at the press secretaries in American politics. They have to tow the party line all the time, but eventually their credibility gets used up and they get replaced every few years. I think you should consult with SirMolle tomorrow about whether it's time for someone else to step in and take up the burden. That doesn't mean you haven't done a good job, it just means your name has been attached to too much stuff that gets in the way of your message. Are you suggesting that I create and alt and do what you do?
Takusan	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:03:00 - [652] Conclusion: Goonswarm losing in game, choose to win on forums.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:05:00 - [653] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Stahlregen Unless you got your own delorean sitting in your garage that you can use to go back in time and prevent the t20 scandal from ever getting out and help your parents get together at the school prom then you are not allowed to have a credible opinion on this matter. What part about t20 saying that he was alone in what he did escapes you? My credibility is not for me to dictate or for you to decide. People decide what they want to believe. If they don't believe what I say then that's their decision. You goons should understand this. After all, you're not interested in proving anything, you just want people to believe the allegations, because as long as they believe unsubstantiated accusations, it's enough. Dian seems to have substantiated it just fine thank you very much. Mind showing us where? I'm sorry perhaps I misunderstood you when you admitted to chatting up devs on MSN, which is the basis of at least one of the accusations. Maybe you meant that you didn't have a private line to the devs by stating you had a private line to the devs?
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:06:00 - [654] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad That is not cheating it is making friends. Goonies wouldn't know about friends since they just ruin games, but bob likes to be friends with people because they like the game. So they happen to make friends with GMs and devs? So what? Maybe if you goonies had been in the game as long as they had you would be friends with devs too. Bob is just doing what any normel humans would do. Because we are normal human beings who just enjoy eve, unlike you t1 goonies who just want to ruin it. Stop whining and go back to syndicate and come back once you have the SP to take bob on instead of trying to drag their good name through the mud. That is how eve works, get over it. Making friends is perfectly acceptable when those friends don't start rigging the game. People have a reasonable expectation that the game they're paying for on a monthly basis isn't rigged in favour of someone or a group of people. Cheating isn't normal. Trying to validate cheating by calling it 'human nature' is a goddamn lie and I hope you don't honestly believe anything you're saying.
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:06:00 - [655] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Stahlregen Unless you got your own delorean sitting in your garage that you can use to go back in time and prevent the t20 scandal from ever getting out and help your parents get together at the school prom then you are not allowed to have a credible opinion on this matter. What part about t20 saying that he was alone in what he did escapes you? My credibility is not for me to dictate or for you to decide. People decide what they want to believe. If they don't believe what I say then that's their decision. You goons should understand this. After all, you're not interested in proving anything, you just want people to believe the allegations, because as long as they believe unsubstantiated accusations, it's enough. Dian seems to have substantiated it just fine thank you very much. Mind showing us where? Since someone already beat me to answering you, how bout you do us a favor and reply to that IRS comment you seem so determined to wiggle out of?
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:07:00 - [656] Originally by: Jonas Vance Please stop ignoring the rest of the community and making this a political issue BoB. This is about CHeATING, EXPLOITING and having illicit dealings with GM's. All proven so far. But they have played for 4 years, they should be allowed to cheat.
scabbsssjr Gallente M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:07:00 - [657] Wow, goons blobed the forums to the point they were taken down. Wait tell all the facts are out goonies. ANY intelligent person will read that open letter and see the following: 1. A BOB member knows an ISD's msn account. If you think about this you might figure out BOB members have gone to fan feast and may have had a beer or two with someone and swapped msn names to keep in touch. I am sure 1 person on the coalition side knows and ISD guy. 2. The so called proof that BOB are ISD is so funny. A qoute from local? Here let me go to jita local and claim to ceo of goonfleet and RKK, it must come true. Wait tell the facts are in tell you spam a forum down. What a former employee says (Who was fired btw) is not the word of god. This is not just about BOB, its about the RP community and I hope anyone with a brain will wait tell we hear CCPs side before they make a decision. --------------------------- Originally by: Ductoris At this rate I'm going to ask for a BOB sub-forum.
Kesslar Znel Exegesis Aerospace GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:08:00 - [658] Originally by: Rebellion That's probably the intent here. To pull this antic on a weekend so that it stays up longer. During the weekend there are more people browsing stuff and reading things, and less CCP to do investigation. If they really wanted quick resolution from CCP, they'd have timed this during CCP work hours on a weekday. I don't even have to cite proof that the main reason for this stunt is controversy. None of us even know what really happened, but the goons believe it's their godgiven right to have a onesided soapbox by inundating the forums and other sources of information with themselves. Can't you even wait until next week for CCP to finish their investigation? What's with the urgency? Is this some life threatening issue that needs to get resolved by people working overtime? Well, to be fair here, if we had CCP employees on our MSN I doubt we'd have to post on Eve-O.
James 315 Yet Another CAOD-Inspired 1-Man Alt Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:08:00 - [659] Originally by: Rebellion Are you suggesting that I create and alt and do what you do? I think you're smart enough to know exactly what I was suggesting. I also think that the more BoB protests and attempts to defend itself here, the guiltier they will look. I think SirMolle made exactly the right decision some months back when he put the muzzle on. What I'm saying will probably be dismissed or lost among the torrent of posts in this thread, but at least I'll be on record. Up to you guys, anyway.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:08:00 - [660] Originally by: Rebellion The problem with your account is that it's an alt. I'm not sure if I even have to elaborate on that along being bereft of credibility enough. Interesting, now the I'm an alt ? Well, this is the (gosh) unique account I have, with 1 main (me, ~21M sp), 2 alt for checking teh market. Flawed point. Quote: Let us assume that you are right, and that CCP has this overall goal of making BoB win, and making it rain all the time on the goons. Why would you even be afraid of being banned when using your main account, they'd know it anyway. Why bother posting with an alt? Uh ? Wrong post quoted ? I've never said that ccp want BoB to win. And I repeat, I'm not a alt. I really don't understand what you try to say, maybe it's a tactic for spamming this thread with unrelated information to the main problem (also called diversion, damage control)? Quote: By posting with your main, you let everyone know that your opinion is backed by the wealth of experience that is proven by your affiliation and corp history. It then becomes their decision to judge your credibility. This is my main (again). Obviously you didn't even checked my corp history... If your argumentation it's based on the false assumption that I'm an alt, you are effectively contributing like 0 to this thread, and letting the real concern flooded. ps. this is my main. pps. seriously.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:08:00 - [661] Originally by: Takusan Conclusion: Goonswarm losing in game, choose to win on forums. QFT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:09:00 - [662] Originally by: Hail Xenu As you know, having GS forum access and all, most goons are banned from eve-o forums and have to use trial account alts to post. Using an alt does not make the points made less valid, decent way to divert the argument when you are losing, I guess. Well, maybe not. You goons have no one else to blame for your accounts being banned from posting in the forums, after the antics you've continually pulled on EVE, and attacks made to CCP outside of the community. There has to be a special kind of depravity that makes one seek to ruin a company's reputation just because of failure in a game. Not wanting to be confrontational, there is a way to achieve change in EVE without harassing CCP. If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better.
Jargoon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:10:00 - [663] Edited by: Jargoon on 26/05/2007 03:10:38 Originally by: Inturist Relax guys !! BoB is a cheater NOT GOONIES Read local channel near the end Well i know , it will be like that : Goons member : LOL u edited Local Goons member Nr 2 : HA we ****** u up Goons member nr 2141: LOL , we dont cheat , its BOD who cheats , we only using RL $ , but not cheating with devs. Another goon member : u suck , u lamer ------------- Let the flames begins !!! Goons don't use AOL speak, first of all. Well maybe Arghy, but he was sponsored.
bluebandit Dark Knights of Deneb	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:10:00 - [664] Edited by: bluebandit on 26/05/2007 03:09:23 Originally by: Cyllaina I read the letter, I don't see anything in there that would constitute a label of " cheating "... A careful read will allow one to see that the ISD guy was clearly bias against BoB in the instance he spoke about, he even admitted to Warping within 1 " Foot " as he put it, of the dread. Come on now, we all know if you warp right ontop of someone, be it a few hundred meters or a thousand, the likelyhood that you're going to bump them is high. So whats the big deal here? Jerk of an ISD reporter got his privledges taken away, -claps- CCP being contacted via MSN rather than petition? Who cares? You all wish you could do such a thing, I don't see any instance in that entire letter than says Orange Species did anything to " Cheat " or change the " State of the game " or the " Course of his pvp operation " By reporting that ***** to someone he might call friend, who just happens to be on CCP staff. Come on now people, all this instigating and calling to arms from the community is what will ruin this game, not the fact BoB has CCP staff on MSN lists. CCP is not a local government, theyre not elected officals, if you don't like the way things are handled, stop paying them, it's not like taxes, you have a choice. They do NOT have to answer to the customer, simply stop being a customer and go play vanguard or something singleplayer so you dont have to interact with other people. Simple Sentence: IMPARTIALITY FROM CCP STAFF TOWARDS ALL PLAYERS !!!
Lil Mule	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:10:00 - [665] Originally by: Stoned Celt Originally by: ApathyKills Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. Or at the real world angle to the gaming activities of the people you ally yourselves with. Why am I not surprised that SA goons have also started spamming sladhdot and digg too? If you're really interested in the truth, you'd wait for CCP to post their side before spamming this all over the place. You would even be able to wait until CCP says something that you supposedly have "proof" otherwise, and make them look all the more like liars. But no, it's much better to raise hell and get as much attention as you can, and keep spamming the allegations for the off chance that people that read take it at face value, you'd even create these people if you had to, if only to make it appear that 3rd party individuals actually do believe something wrong is going on. If you really hated how CCP run EVE for legitimate reasons, you'd just quit and stop paying them. But no, you have a real axe to grind, and want to take the game down. It's not enough that you stop paying CCP for their game, you want other people to stop paying too, so that CCP gets hurt more. Would you get geek cred by being able to claim that you pwned EVE? Most of you play this game because of a desire to ridicule the stereotype of the playerbase, just like what you did with Second Life. At this point, I don't know of CCP even thinks it's worth putting up with goon antics just for their monthly subscriptions. Perhaps goons anticipate that too, and thus want to make their monthy subscription worth more in that they would seek to influence other players to make their pressure group weigh more in the eyes of CCP. At any rate, when you do leave EVE, I hope it would be after your fleets learn to focus fire on primaries. It requires the same discipline as copying and pasting the same text all over the forums. This isn't the Goons that are raging. This is EVE. LOL get over yourself There's what 600 posts (some reposters and not all anti-CCP) or something out of a player base of 100,000. This is not "EVE" it's mainly the players who are getting their arses kicked by BoB and its Allies. There you are very wrong. I have nothing to do with the war, and while Im not willing to pass full judgement yet, it certainly doesnt not look good for CCP or Bob. Making an arrogant statement like that certainly makes me think that the allegations are correct. I would say a very large percentag of the EVE community are indeed watching this issue, although most of them dont post about it.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:10:00 - [666] Originally by: scabbsssjr Wow, goons blobed the forums to the point they were taken down. Wait tell all the facts are out goonies. ANY intelligent person will read that open letter and see the following: 1. A BOB member knows an ISD's msn account. If you think about this you might figure out BOB members have gone to fan feast and may have had a beer or two with someone and swapped msn names to keep in touch. I am sure 1 person on the coalition side knows and ISD guy. 2. The so called proof that BOB are ISD is so funny. A qoute from local? Here let me go to jita local and claim to ceo of goonfleet and RKK, it must come true. Wait tell the facts are in tell you spam a forum down. What a former employee says (Who was fired btw) is not the word of god. This is not just about BOB, its about the RP community and I hope anyone with a brain will wait tell we hear CCPs side before they make a decision. You should read the thread first. Dianabolic has admitted everything saying that they have the right to cheat since they know the devs and have played for so long. Which sounds reasonable, right?
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:10:00 - [667] Oh yeah, and just a refresh: none of this has anything to do with the Coalition, especially GS. None of it at all. We simply reported it, and then took our reporting to the next level when CCP tried to shut us out. Don't try pinning BoB/CCP's failures on us in an attempt to save face. But I guess it's fair, though. I mean, BoB have been in the game since Beta - they DESERVE to cheat. I mean hell, why don't we start handing BoB a bunch of Polaris frigates so they can wipe out the entire game in peace? They're vets - they DESERVE victory, at any cost.
LiquidSteele Exit 13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:11:00 - [668] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: LiquidSteele Edited by: LiquidSteele on 26/05/2007 02:02:32 Thank God that Eve has Goonswarm to look out for the rest of us. BoB want to win Eve and Goons want to destroy Eve. Believe who u want i guess. LS Goons want to destroy Eve because they put this stuff in the open? Goons have spent as much (or more...buying dread pilots, anyone?) on the game as everyone else. Do you think they want to see it destroyed? Why would they put all this time into trying to get titans fixed if they were only going to 'destroy' the game. HOW EXACTLY WILL THIS DESTROY THE GAME? I can only see it hurting the unprofessional relationship between BoB and the Devs and causing CCP to communicate like adults- that isn't destroying the game. Explain exactly how this is an attempt to destroy the game. Post with your main big man and then we can talk
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:11:00 - [669] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Hail Xenu As you know, having GS forum access and all, most goons are banned from eve-o forums and have to use trial account alts to post. Using an alt does not make the points made less valid, decent way to divert the argument when you are losing, I guess. Well, maybe not. You goons have no one else to blame for your accounts being banned from posting in the forums, after the antics you've continually pulled on EVE, and attacks made to CCP outside of the community. There has to be a special kind of depravity that makes one seek to ruin a company's reputation just because of failure in a game. Not wanting to be confrontational, there is a way to achieve change in EVE without harassing CCP. If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better. I can't recall Goonfleet ever getting caught carousing with the devs or having items spawned for them. If posting threads is a crime then I suppose they'll be held guilty as charged. If that's all you folks did this thread wouldn't exist. You don't have a high horse to ride on so I'd suggest you stop posting from one.
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:12:00 - [670] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: ApathyKills nonononono you clearly have reading issues, let me quote what you quoted without a forum quote but quotations (i REALLY hope you understood that because you're seriously lacking today), in fact I'll explain as I go along, "Bob members," people like you, "are not entitled," this means you can't do something, "to talk about credibility," i really can't make this any more idiot-proof, if you can't understand this I suggest you take some 3rd grade english classes or something. "kthxbye," the end. Why can I talk about credibility? If I have no credibility then my words would have no weight anyway, so there's no harm in my speaking. English isn't my first language, but I try my best to make myself understood. I'd say more, but you're just another alt. I get the feeling that I'm just talking to the same person. Gj quoting out of context. What was meant wasn't that you have no credibility, but rather than you can't say whether people do or do not have credibility. And even if you don't have credibility people can still choose to beleive you.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:12:00 - [671] Originally by: Jargoon Originally by: Inturist Relax guys !! BoB is a cheater NOT GOONIES Read local channel near the end Well i know , it will be like that : Goons member : LOL u edited Local Goons member Nr 2 : HA we ****** u up Goons member nr 2141: LOL , we dont cheat , its BOD who cheats , we only using RL $ , but not cheating with devs. Another goon member : u suck , u lamer ------------- Let the flames begins !!! Goons don't use AOL speak, first of all. I think they WILL start using any crap to post here , including AOL speak -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:12:00 - [672] Edited by: Stahlregen on 26/05/2007 03:11:57 Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Hail Xenu As you know, having GS forum access and all, most goons are banned from eve-o forums and have to use trial account alts to post. Using an alt does not make the points made less valid, decent way to divert the argument when you are losing, I guess. Well, maybe not. You goons have no one else to blame for your accounts being banned from posting in the forums, after the antics you've continually pulled on EVE, and attacks made to CCP outside of the community. There has to be a special kind of depravity that makes one seek to ruin a company's reputation just because of failure in a game. Not wanting to be confrontational, there is a way to achieve change in EVE without harassing CCP. If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better. Once again, Goons are ruining eve because they don't want to put up with blatant cheating and just want to get to the bottom of the truth. Stop using this old line, It's making you look like a moron. edit: If you had actually paid attention to the thread (don't worry i know you did really read it, you're just hoping that the rest of the people reading your post didn't) you would see that we had already tried to address this situation BUT WAS SHUT DOWN BY THE GMs
Sen Xia GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:13:00 - [673] Originally by: Rebellion Are you suggesting that I create and alt and do what you do? His alt's identity is not what is at stake here. The credibility of your **** alliance is however.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:13:00 - [674] My prediction: Handled (slightly) better than the T20 fiasco. Gnashing of teeth and beating of breats over "restructuring", "investigations of allegations". A couple token ISD wrist slaps or some other weaksauce. FanBoys and Dev Alts congratulate CCP on their stellar behavior. Buisness as usual till the NEXT misconduct. Rinse repeat add nauseaum till some other space MMO comes out, then everyone but BoD and their MSN buddies leaves. Oh and you can forget about me even looking at WoD or any other title with CCP's name on it. This is getting frackin ridiculous, I'm fkin PAYING for this sort of stacked deck? No I'm not in D2 or Ra or Goon and I almost never see any BoB at all. I cancelled one account over random assinineness, their handling of this will dictate what happens to my last account. I dont hold much hope though, it would take RADICAL actions to cure the problem. After all they are friends you know...I mean it's not like it's a buisness, with a reputation to uphold or anything. "Level playing field" my skinny Achura ass.
Keldjos Falzir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:13:00 - [675] Originally by: LiquidSteele Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: LiquidSteele Edited by: LiquidSteele on 26/05/2007 02:02:32 Thank God that Eve has Goonswarm to look out for the rest of us. BoB want to win Eve and Goons want to destroy Eve. Believe who u want i guess. LS Goons want to destroy Eve because they put this stuff in the open? Goons have spent as much (or more...buying dread pilots, anyone?) on the game as everyone else. Do you think they want to see it destroyed? Why would they put all this time into trying to get titans fixed if they were only going to 'destroy' the game. HOW EXACTLY WILL THIS DESTROY THE GAME? I can only see it hurting the unprofessional relationship between BoB and the Devs and causing CCP to communicate like adults- that isn't destroying the game. Explain exactly how this is an attempt to destroy the game. Post with your main big man and then we can talk Want to talk about this with a "main" fine. This is my main, and I'll repeat: "Goons want to destroy Eve because they put this stuff in the open? Goons have spent as much (or more...buying dread pilots, anyone?) on the game as everyone else. Do you think they want to see it destroyed? Why would they put all this time into trying to get titans fixed if they were only going to 'destroy' the game. HOW EXACTLY WILL THIS DESTROY THE GAME? I can only see it hurting the unprofessional relationship between BoB and the Devs and causing CCP to communicate like adults- that isn't destroying the game. Explain exactly how this is an attempt to destroy the game."
Ela Deldora	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:14:00 - [676] Originally by: Rebellion If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better. People who play longer play better? Is that with or without GM help? Honestly, I'm just not sure about that whole "people who play longer play better" thing. It certainly didn't work for V/LV and the handful of other alliances GoonSwarm has killed.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:14:00 - [677] Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Friends or not, when you contact a CCP representative as a paying customer, it should be by the official CCP in-game channels available to every other paying customer. You feel you are entitled to this luxury because you have made friends with staff. You are wrong. If you are playing on your normal player character, there should be no unofficial out-of-game contact made with a GM character regarding and in-game problem. Plain and simple. There's a petition system, mail system, and private chat system built right into the game for these very reasons. That you feel the need to use an out-of-game method to get in-game issues handled only makes us think that you don't want to leave a trail of evidence by using in-game means. If you feel you must use an out-of-game means to reach a specific staff member to handle your issue, why is that staff member any more special than the others? Because he is your "friend"? This is wrong again. If your buddy is going to handle it differently than any other GM that isn't your buddy, then that is a serious conflict of interest. -------------------------------------
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:14:00 - [678] Originally by: Rebellion You goons have no one else to blame for your accounts being banned from posting in the forums, after the antics you've continually pulled on EVE, and attacks made to CCP outside of the community. There has to be a special kind of depravity that makes one seek to ruin a company's reputation just because of failure in a game. Not wanting to be confrontational, there is a way to achieve change in EVE without harassing CCP. If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better. So what's the way to change the game? Because our threads get deleted, our petitions get deleted, our complaints get form generated responses and are usually ignored. I guess we should have tried MSN. Maybe you just aren't used to not being the center of CCP's attentions and don't remember what it's like. We aren't ruining CCP's reputation. CCP is ruining CCP's reputation, and you (Dian & Rebellion) are only accelerating its swirling down the drain.
Hail Xenu	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:14:00 - [679] Originally by: Rebellion You goons have no one else to blame for your accounts being banned from posting in the forums, after the antics you've continually pulled on EVE, and attacks made to CCP outside of the community. There has to be a special kind of depravity that makes one seek to ruin a company's reputation just because of failure in a game. Not wanting to be confrontational, there is a way to achieve change in EVE without harassing CCP. If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better. More damage control in action. Petitions failed, emails failed and the lone, well-reasoned forum post was deleted in seconds, since not everyone has the devs in their MSN then we had to get through somehow. Oh well, keep trying to avoid the real issues here, it's amusing while waiting for the next Dianabolic posts.
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:17:00 - [680] Originally by: Inturist U can call us BoB slaves , ect , we do live in PB , but u also accept the fact -> 9$ . Hey man, I think your keyboard is broken.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:17:00 - [681] Originally by: Ela Deldora Originally by: Rebellion If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better. People who play longer play better? Is that with or without GM help? Honestly, I'm just not sure about that whole "people who play longer play better" thing. It certainly didn't work for V/LV and the handful of other alliances GoonSwarm has killed. Using tactics - crash node eh ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:17:00 - [682] Originally by: Inturist I think they WILL Are bob pet posts even more invalid than alt posts, Rebellion? Or are those OK?
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:17:00 - [683] Originally by: ApathyKills Gj quoting out of context. What was meant wasn't that you have no credibility, but rather than you can't say whether people do or do not have credibility. And even if you don't have credibility people can still choose to beleive you. You were the one doing the quoting. I just quoted your entire post without alterations. Furthermore the original clearly suggested that I had no credibility assuming that what you suggest about BoB cheating, and therefore me cheating being a member of BoB, was anything more than just a repeated baseless allegation. That topic had been gone over ages ago, and up to now you goons have not managed to convince anyone that didn't already have some other reason to hate us. Even without credibility, people really do choose whether to believe or not. Spoken truly. Isn't that the entire reason why you created as many threads as you can, even with alts, just to paste the same thing over and over again?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:17:00 - [684] Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Friends or not, when you contact a CCP representative as a paying customer, it should be by the official CCP in-game channels available to every other paying customer. You feel you are entitled to this luxury because you have made friends with staff. You are wrong. If you are playing on your normal player character, there should be no unofficial out-of-game contact made with a GM character regarding and in-game problem. Plain and simple. There's a petition system, mail system, and private chat system built right into the game for these very reasons. That you feel the need to use an out-of-game method to get in-game issues handled only makes us think that you don't want to leave a trail of evidence by using in-game means. If you feel you must use an out-of-game means to reach a specific staff member to handle your issue, why is that staff member any more special than the others? Because he is your "friend"? This is wrong again. If your buddy is going to handle it differently than any other GM that isn't your buddy, then that is a serious conflict of interest. I wonder if dev msn accounts are monitored by the awesome CCP IA team? Wait, that's not possible. There could be no appearance of shadiness in the least here from 2 entities who have been shown time and time again to cheat.
Welfare State GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:17:00 - [685] You know besides the endless argument between Goonswarm/BoB a little transperency on CCP's side would have gone a long way to ease suspicions. Of course, this thread has been very revealing.
Fiendish Lo Eve University	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:18:00 - [686] Originally by: "Rebellion" You goons have no one else to blame for your accounts being banned from posting in the forums, after the antics you've continually pulled on EVE, and attacks made to CCP outside of the community. He means that the Goons choose not to participate in this forum. They haven't been banned. They just don't want to talk with you (or me), except on special occasions. This was a special occasion. Quote: There has to be a special kind of depravity that makes one seek to ruin a company's reputation just because of failure in a game. On the contrary, your alliance is the most powerful in all of Eve.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:18:00 - [687] Eve Population has decline by around 8,000 people during prime-time since the last developer misconduct. It will be interesting to see over the next few weeks/months to watch how this affects how many people are online during primetime. I really wish developers would get out of the game and institute a hands off policy. In Everquest, when stuff like this was found out, I hate to say it, but every player was banned and all the GMs were fired. They had to do that maybe all of three times in seven years that I heard about, because everyone knew the consequences and Sony did not screw around and try to cover things up and make lame excuses for their employees. I have no idea what really did happen here, but just having CCP involvement looks bad and in light if the events that came out a few months ago I think CCP really needs to reevaulute exactly how they should be interacting with players. I know I personally expect unbiased professional etheical conduct from them for my $15 a month and thats it (Well, and fixing bugs and fixing the lag problems).
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:18:00 - [688] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Inturist I think they WILL Are bob pet posts even more invalid than alt posts, Rebellion? Or are those OK? Well, to determine that you need to understand the reason why people post with alts. What's yours?
Dufas Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:18:00 - [689] oh Noe's the sky is fallin
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:18:00 - [690] Here's a basic table of logic for BoB/BoB Pets: 1. BoB Gets Caught Cheating. 2. GoonSwarm Is Somehow Responsible. Makes sense to me. »\(¦_o)/»
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:19:00 - [691] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: ApathyKills That topic had been gone over ages ago, and up to now you goons have not managed to convince anyone that didn't already have some other reason to hate us. You are clueless. You've done more damage to CCP than the rest of eve could do combined. You're on the side that gets all the advantages and you're admitting it - even trying to justify it.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:20:00 - [692] Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Inturist U can call us BoB slaves , ect , we do live in PB , but u also accept the fact -> 9$ . Hey man, I think your keyboard is broken. Didnt thought something better ? Lets try it one more time sugar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:21:00 - [693] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Inturist I think they WILL Are bob pet posts even more invalid than alt posts, Rebellion? Or are those OK? No balls left to post with main ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
squidgee GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:21:00 - [694] Edited by: squidgee on 26/05/2007 03:20:35 Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad That is how eve works, get over it. This is the problem with BoB. Right here. Cheating? That's how EVE works. MSN contact with devs? That's how EVE works. Devs spying for you? That's how eve works. Bend over and take it, because apparently corruption and cheating are just how eve works. And before you try to deny you're bob again: Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Bob is just doing what any normel humans would do. Because we are normal human beings who just enjoy eve, unlike you t1 goonies who just want to ruin it. Nice typo. Colluding with Devs and GMs isn't "being normal human beings," it's cheating.
Capt Tripps	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:21:00 - [695] Communication between the customers and CCP personnel has not been good, from my standpoint. If anything I hope CCP learns that being uncommunicative with your players is not in your best interest in spite of what you still seem to think. The poor communication starts with Arkanon and works it's way down through the ranks. Better communication would perhaps stop problems like this before they occur. Why is it online game companies think they can treat their customers so poorly, with very little communication and many other issues I'll not bring up here? Online game companies need to get better at customer service. If not eventually consumer laws will finally be changed and companies like CCP will be forced to treat their customers like human beings.
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:21:00 - [696] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Hail Xenu As you know, having GS forum access and all, most goons are banned from eve-o forums and have to use trial account alts to post. Using an alt does not make the points made less valid, decent way to divert the argument when you are losing, I guess. Well, maybe not. You goons have no one else to blame for your accounts being banned from posting in the forums, after the antics you've continually pulled on EVE, and attacks made to CCP outside of the community. There has to be a special kind of depravity that makes one seek to ruin a company's reputation just because of failure in a game. Not wanting to be confrontational, there is a way to achieve change in EVE without harassing CCP. If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better. I would point out every fallacy in your argument but...o what the hell. You cite the Goons "antics" and how they deserve to be banned, well guess who's pulled bigger "antics" and hasn't been banned? Lotsa Bobbites. You speak of a special kind of depravity that makes one seek to ruin a company's reputation...well, THIS ENTIRE F*CKING POST is about a special kind of depravity that makes an alliance seek to destroy a game so that they can win. You say that because people pay they have a right to demand a game in accordance to their specifications, again, I implore you to read. Their specifications are that a game exists that is FAIR and BALANCED, and that is something that everyone has the right to demand if they pay for a game. Stop being an idiot and think. I'm not saying all of BoB is bad, a lot of you are probably honest people. The fact remains that several of you have direct connections to god-like entities within the game and that one person who uses this direct contact to bring down a "Hand of God" ruins it for an untold number of people. This needs to be stopped. PS. I swear to God I'm not a Goon alt. PPS. People who play with 12 men on the pitch tend to play better than those with 11, but that's cheating. Or at least it is unless the ref chooses to ignore it/facilitate it.
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:22:00 - [697] Originally by: Yuki Nagato Here's a basic table of logic for BoB/BoB Pets: 1. BoB Gets Caught Cheating. 2. GoonSwarm Is Somehow Responsible. Makes sense to me. »\(¦_o)/» So you've decided that for CCP even before the investigation began? Again, what's with the urgency in creating such a big controversy? This will be resolved by next week. The only reason to create such a big ruckus is if the controversy was all you wanted to achieve to begin with.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:22:00 - [698] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Inturist I think they WILL Are bob pet posts even more invalid than alt posts, Rebellion? Or are those OK? Well, to determine that you need to understand the reason why people post with alts. What's yours? Banned main account for posting one of the first links to this page in General: http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html You are still sidestepping the real issues though, which speaks volumes to anyone reading your posts.
Valdis Corick GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:22:00 - [699] The Situation: Us: Upset because we may be paying money towards a game rigged against us (3 card monty anyone?) Them: Claiming that we're just whining because we're a) losing a spaceship game or b) aren't as "experienced" as they are. And we're the ones who are taking this game too seriously? I'm not upset about losing systems or ships. I'm not upset that BoB is proving to be a more formidable opponent then others we've faced in the past. I'M UPSET BECAUSE I'M PAYING $15 A MONTH FOR A GAME THAT IS POTENTIALLY RIGGED. I'm (we're) upset because the supposedly impartial omnipotent power that is CCP is looking like it plays favorites. And before any "proof or stfu" let us address the - T20 blueprint issue (which was proven as a CCP employee cheating to help BoB) - BoB having access to GM/Devs through external (and apparently more reliable) channels then the rest of the eve community (as admited by BoB members themselves claiming it's just "friendship")
Xalorn Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:22:00 - [700] Dianabolic, in other MMO games, simply having "improper" access to a dev/GM/guide is considered cheating, even if you dont get any 'inside infoz' from that person. Especially if its to facilitate bug fixing or exploit finding. When you say you speak with a dev on MSN, it might not sound like a big deal, but from people that come from other MMO games, that is a huge breach. As you can see from the replies it has gotten, its really shocking to hear of a player openly admitting to having such a connection to a dev. Some of them are probably fully expecting you & said dev(s) to get banned pretty soon for admitting to the connection. Perhaps CCP holds a different view on the subject than most other MMOs, & when they decide against taking action on you or the dev(s) involved, its going to get really ugly around here. Personally, I can see how the situation innocently came about. Seeing as how the game started out really small & balloned seemingly overnight. Unfortunately, the players it acquired with the balloning, were from other MMOs & those players have viewpoints on gaming that might not jive with the 'small community' feeling eve-online had.
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:23:00 - [701] Originally by: Inturist Didnt thought something better ? Lets try it one more time sugar If you really believe we pay $10 in hard (real) cash for our frigates, you should probably get your head checked and stop reading BoB propaganda. Oh yeah, and go outside.
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:23:00 - [702] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: ApathyKills Gj quoting out of context. What was meant wasn't that you have no credibility, but rather than you can't say whether people do or do not have credibility. And even if you don't have credibility people can still choose to beleive you. You were the one doing the quoting. I just quoted your entire post without alterations. Furthermore the original clearly suggested that I had no credibility assuming that what you suggest about BoB cheating, and therefore me cheating being a member of BoB, was anything more than just a repeated baseless allegation. That topic had been gone over ages ago, and up to now you goons have not managed to convince anyone that didn't already have some other reason to hate us. Even without credibility, people really do choose whether to believe or not. Spoken truly. Isn't that the entire reason why you created as many threads as you can, even with alts, just to paste the same thing over and over again? Not a goon, don't assume. You make yourself look dumb. Not that you don't do that enough already.
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:23:00 - [703] Originally by: ApathyKills PS. I swear to God I'm not a Goon alt. Then whose alt are you? Those who demand honesty must adhere to it themselves.
Heaven Crest	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:24:00 - [704] I've figured it all out. None of this is real. Goon squad, BoB, they're all actors playing their parts to make eve more interesting. How to papers sell copies? Scandal of course. So EVE does the same thing. Pour a little scandal into the brew and see what happens. Or maybe I'm wrong. Either way, this can of worms is going to be quite entertaining. Look at the heavens. Beautiful, aren't they? Take a good look, they wont be like that when I'm through.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:24:00 - [705] Originally by: Inturist Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Inturist I think they WILL Are bob pet posts even more invalid than alt posts, Rebellion? Or are those OK? No balls left to post with main ? No unbanned mains to post with, GS mains were banned on sight a few hours ago. Can you post a link to that video again, it really made GS looks silly.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:25:00 - [706] Could the BOB directors get back to telling us about their close relationship with CCP? Because that was awesome.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:26:00 - [707] Edited by: Poolpy on 26/05/2007 03:24:44 Originally by: Rebellion So you've decided that for CCP even before the investigation began? Again, what's with the urgency in creating such a big controversy? This will be resolved by next week. The only reason to create such a big ruckus is if the controversy was all you wanted to achieve to begin with. Let's just make a little step back when first appened the t20 story. If nobody spammed the forum, creating a big ruckus, would CCP have done anything ? It seems that there are 2 systems to communicate to ccp that works: - spam the forums, controversy, drama llama, etc... - msn the dev. Note: the second option is not accessible for everybody. Edit: i fail at quoting
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:26:00 - [708] Originally by: Inturist Should i turn on my Sony VEgas again and strat editing more movies with VERY NICE conversations with Goonies in local , and some private ones ? Please do.
Pinnk Floyd	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:26:00 - [709] Originally by: Inturist Originally by: Yuki Nagato Originally by: Inturist Didnt thought something better ? Lets try it one more time sugar If you really believe we pay $10 in hard (real) cash for our frigates, you should probably get your head checked and stop reading BoB propaganda. Oh yeah, and go outside. Should i turn on my Sony VEgas again and strat editing more movies with VERY NICE conversations with Goonies in local , and some private ones ? Maybe you should go post in a thread about Goonswarm.
D1ck Jones Old Detroit Crime Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:27:00 - [710] by goons, better luck next time o7
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:27:00 - [711] Originally by: Hail Xenu Originally by: Rebellion You goons have no one else to blame for your accounts being banned from posting in the forums, after the antics you've continually pulled on EVE, and attacks made to CCP outside of the community. There has to be a special kind of depravity that makes one seek to ruin a company's reputation just because of failure in a game. Not wanting to be confrontational, there is a way to achieve change in EVE without harassing CCP. If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better. More damage control in action. Petitions failed, emails failed and the lone, well-reasoned forum post was deleted in seconds, since not everyone has the devs in their MSN then we had to get through somehow. Oh well, keep trying to avoid the real issues here, it's amusing while waiting for the next Dianabolic posts. So people should spam the forums at that point, and make life for everyone else worst, because the servers have to keep up with the increased load. Give me a break everyone involved in spamming the forums should be banned. Everyone involved in any action found to be unfair should be banned. Spamming the forums is a childish thing to do, and I don't care if you have 18 accounts, spamming the forum is an idiotic thing to do.
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:28:00 - [712] Originally by: Inturist Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Inturist U can call us BoB slaves , ect , we do live in PB , but u also accept the fact -> 9$ . Hey man, I think your keyboard is broken. Didnt thought something better ? Lets try it one more time sugar I think what you intended to type was: Quote: Couldn't think of anything better? Let's try it one more time sugar. I could be wrong though. I mean, you could have Down's Syndrome or something. That would explain your failure to notice that "$9 free frigs" was a troll. Really, man. If you have Down's or something I will totally apologize for insulting you. It's okay. Many of you manage to lead pretty full lives.
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:28:00 - [713] Originally by: Rebellion So you've decided that for CCP even before the investigation began? Again, what's with the urgency in creating such a big controversy? This will be resolved by next week. The only reason to create such a big ruckus is if the controversy was all you wanted to achieve to begin with. You might have forgotten, but CCP deleted and ignored the first attempt at posting our case to these forums. That's why we started spamming - because apparently the only way to get a reaction out of CCP is to force their hand. I have little doubt CCP will come up with a passive-aggressive way to pin all of the blame on us and make it seem like they're the victims in all of this, but c'est la vie. Oh yeah, and I said "BoB", not "CCP", but I can understand why people like yourself might get confused about making that kind of distinction, considering dianabolic apparently does business with them on a daily basis.
Arthur Miller GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:28:00 - [714] Originally by: Rebellion Not wanting to be confrontational, there is a way to achieve change in EVE without harassing CCP. If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better. I have a lot easier time understanding how people who have more inside knowledge and friends in the company play better thank you very much. Keep up the ad hominem attacks on goons please. In the meantime can you tell me why you think having direct contact with CCP employees is alright? Also please explain to me how this contact does not constitute a significant advantage for you and your corporation.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:28:00 - [715] Originally by: Aryth Lets focus on two facts. Goons have never been acknowledged cheaters by CCP Bob have been acknowledged cheaters by CCP Sooo. Spin Spin That doesn't proof that u r not cheating in some different ways -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:28:00 - [716] Personally, I don't want anyone banned, I don't want any alliance broken up, and I don't want anyone fired. I want it fixed. CCP's rules and policies need to be overhauled with a focus on customer service and strict guidelines for dealing with player problems. And you might want to reference rules of customer service as well. -------------------------------------
Osiris Warp E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:29:00 - [717] oh snap lol well that was an interesting read. I dont see why everyone is freaking out though. All this crap as already proven. Or did you actually think it was all done with ?? lol no way it will be around for years to come -------------------------------------------------- "ACHTUNG! Osiris Warp may actually be a spider-human hybrid Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Torhas Veto.	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:29:00 - [718] Originally by: Aryth Lets focus on two facts. Goons have never been acknowledged cheaters by CCP Bob have been acknowledged cheaters by CCP Sooo. Spin Spin But you had a dev in your alliance just now Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:29:00 - [719] Edited by: Virtuoso DeToure on 26/05/2007 03:28:16 Originally by: Inturist Originally by: Yuki Nagato Originally by: Inturist Didnt thought something better ? Lets try it one more time sugar If you really believe we pay $10 in hard (real) cash for our frigates, you should probably get your head checked and stop reading BoB propaganda. Oh yeah, and go outside. Should i turn on my Sony VEgas again and strat editing more movies with VERY NICE conversations with Goonies in local , and some private ones ? Honestly, just about anything would be better than your last movie. I'm not quite sure what the hell I was supposed to be watching, but it certainly wasn't entertaining / informative. Someone bring back Dianabolic. Watching him squirm was much more interesting.
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:29:00 - [720] Shouldnt matter how long gamers have played the game or have "known" the devs etc, the gamers should not be able to kiss the arse of anyone that has power ingame and get away with it. Makes a mockery of the so called "player driven" game system. Makes matter worse if devs/people with power have that much of a god complex or a need to suck up to their ingame pals that their willing to resort to stuff like this. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Arenis Xemdal Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:29:00 - [721]
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:29:00 - [722] Originally by: Inturist Originally by: Yuki Nagato Originally by: Inturist Didnt thought something better ? Lets try it one more time sugar If you really believe we pay $10 in hard (real) cash for our frigates, you should probably get your head checked and stop reading BoB propaganda. Oh yeah, and go outside. Should i turn on my Sony VEgas again and strat editing more movies with VERY NICE conversations with Goonies in local , and some private ones ? Yeah, Because you getting trolled by goons and your near illiterate responses are really making this thread go places.
Lil Mule	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:29:00 - [723] Originally by: ApathyKills Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Hail Xenu As you know, having GS forum access and all, most goons are banned from eve-o forums and have to use trial account alts to post. Using an alt does not make the points made less valid, decent way to divert the argument when you are losing, I guess. Well, maybe not. You goons have no one else to blame for your accounts being banned from posting in the forums, after the antics you've continually pulled on EVE, and attacks made to CCP outside of the community. There has to be a special kind of depravity that makes one seek to ruin a company's reputation just because of failure in a game. Not wanting to be confrontational, there is a way to achieve change in EVE without harassing CCP. If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better. I would point out every fallacy in your argument but...o what the hell. You cite the Goons "antics" and how they deserve to be banned, well guess who's pulled bigger "antics" and hasn't been banned? Lotsa Bobbites. You speak of a special kind of depravity that makes one seek to ruin a company's reputation...well, THIS ENTIRE F*CKING POST is about a special kind of depravity that makes an alliance seek to destroy a game so that they can win. You say that because people pay they have a right to demand a game in accordance to their specifications, again, I implore you to read. Their specifications are that a game exists that is FAIR and BALANCED, and that is something that everyone has the right to demand if they pay for a game. Stop being an idiot and think. I'm not saying all of BoB is bad, a lot of you are probably honest people. The fact remains that several of you have direct connections to god-like entities within the game and that one person who uses this direct contact to bring down a "Hand of God" ruins it for an untold number of people. This needs to be stopped. PS. I swear to God I'm not a Goon alt. PPS. People who play with 12 men on the pitch tend to play better than those with 11, but that's cheating. Or at least it is unless the ref chooses to ignore it/facilitate it. What he said. I think thats the best Ive seen it said. It seems to me that BoB doesnt really have a leg to stand on here due to past impropriety. I still think we need a full investigation, but Im not sure the players of EVE trust the objectivity of it anyways.
Factor Benz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:30:00 - [724] Originally by: Inturist Originally by: Yuki Nagato Originally by: Inturist Didnt thought something better ? Lets try it one more time sugar If you really believe we pay $10 in hard (real) cash for our frigates, you should probably get your head checked and stop reading BoB propaganda. Oh yeah, and go outside. Should i turn on my Sony VEgas again and strat editing more movies with VERY NICE conversations with Goonies in local , and some private ones ? Please don't. I don't know if we would be able to withstand the community rebellion about a few conversations with whoever you are. It'd be so much worse than cheating.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:30:00 - [725] Originally by: WhitePhantom Originally by: Hail Xenu Originally by: Rebellion You goons have no one else to blame for your accounts being banned from posting in the forums, after the antics you've continually pulled on EVE, and attacks made to CCP outside of the community. There has to be a special kind of depravity that makes one seek to ruin a company's reputation just because of failure in a game. Not wanting to be confrontational, there is a way to achieve change in EVE without harassing CCP. If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better. More damage control in action. Petitions failed, emails failed and the lone, well-reasoned forum post was deleted in seconds, since not everyone has the devs in their MSN then we had to get through somehow. Oh well, keep trying to avoid the real issues here, it's amusing while waiting for the next Dianabolic posts. So people should spam the forums at that point, and make life for everyone else worst, because the servers have to keep up with the increased load. Give me a break everyone involved in spamming the forums should be banned. Everyone involved in any action found to be unfair should be banned. Spamming the forums is a childish thing to do, and I don't care if you have 18 accounts, spamming the forum is an idiotic thing to do. I'm truely sorry that you were unable to read EVE-O for 15 minutes. Problem is that when you use the official channels, they have a habit of not working (see deleted petition mentioned quite a few pages back).
D1ck Jones Old Detroit Crime Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:30:00 - [726] Originally by: Aryth Lets focus on two facts. Goons have never been acknowledged cheaters by CCP Bob have been acknowledged cheaters by CCP Sooo. Spin Spin rofl How about editing your clients? Yeah so pls stfu.
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:30:00 - [727] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Inturist I think they WILL Are bob pet posts even more invalid than alt posts, Rebellion? Or are those OK? Well, to determine that you need to understand the reason why people post with alts. What's yours? Banned main account for posting one of the first links to this page in General: http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html You are still sidestepping the real issues though, which speaks volumes to anyone reading your posts. So you admit to ban evasion, I hope your altnernate account is banned.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:30:00 - [728] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: ApathyKills PS. I swear to God I'm not a Goon alt. Then whose alt are you? Those who demand honesty must adhere to it themselves. This is my main. This is the only character I have posted with in this thread. At the start of the thread, I was disappointed but prepared to wait for Ark and the IA team's investigation: two of the three issues posed by the Open Letter are from an ex-ISD member, who certainly may have motive to lie or skew the facts. Posts from you and especially Dianabolic have made that largely irrelevant. This entire "we have devs as MSN buddies because they are our friends CERTAINLY NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST THERE" line of converstation is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and I hope the larger Eve community doesn't let that point drop. You guys have done more damage in this thread to CCP than the Open Letter itself may have.
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:31:00 - [729] Stock up on your GTC's boys. If the IRS doesnt get them first, the nerd rage will.
Foopadoo	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:32:00 - [730] Originally by: Inturist Should i turn on my Sony VEgas again and strat editing more movies with VERY NICE conversations with Goonies in local , and some private ones ? Yes please do if it will make you stop posting
Kagurazaka Asuna Caldari Gears of Ore	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:32:00 - [731] I just recently started playing this game, hoping that the things I heard about with t20 in the past would be the last time. But apparently they're not. Apparently the game is still so biased towards BoB it isn't even funny. I'm only a few weeks old. But CCP is making it increasinly more obvious that they do not want new players to accomplish anything in this game unless they want to join a certain few alliances. It's like a brick wall of accomplishment, and I don't like it one bit. And I'm sure I'm not alone. And before any wise guy tries to call me on it, I'm not a goon, not in that alliance, or anything. I've never left empire space. I'm just fed up with the state of matters. I just want the game to be fair. And it should be.
Inturist Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:32:00 - [732] Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Inturist Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Inturist U can call us BoB slaves , ect , we do live in PB , but u also accept the fact -> 9$ . Hey man, I think your keyboard is broken. Didnt thought something better ? Lets try it one more time sugar I think what you intended to type was: Quote: Couldn't think of anything better? Let's try it one more time sugar. I could be wrong though. I mean, you could have Down's Syndrome or something. That would explain your failure to notice that "$9 free frigs" was a troll. Really, man. If you have Down's or something I will totally apologize for insulting you. It's okay. Many of you manage to lead pretty full lives. Strange , maybe it is something wrong with my head Ou wait Only if u gave order to ALL goonies to troll like that ABout Down's sindrome , u know about it from urself expirience ? Or the doctors can't help u anymore with that ? i'll quote u Really, man. If you have Down's or something I will totally apologize for insulting you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't dare to cross that line ^ dont discuss moderator actions on the forums - and i wanted only to talk :S
1337tong Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:32:00 - [733] Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate Here is the problem with you and Blacklights argument: 1. DS1 petitioned this as soon as they saw a GM had been in their corp. That petition was deleted. That's right, a guy asking why a GM had roles in their corp and then left didn't recieve an answer, his question was deleted. 2. As of right now, no members of DS1 have stepped forward saying they petitioned this. The CEO stepped forward and said he didn't even think they had any POSs needing investigation. So we tried taking this directly to CCP, but instead of an answer, our petitions were deleted, which forced this. so let me get this straight none of ds1 members stepped forward? did you bother to ask each and everyone of those who had starbase control about it to confirm that they didnt petition it before starting the spam parade? sometimes petitions dont work there is a escalating option where you could of e-mailed one of them to ask them to check on this. Did your alliance even consider that before spaming as many threads as they could?? as for the ISD incident my only comment about that is following your alliance not only brought the T20 incident publicly to the eve populace but also used it as a means to increase your chances at taking bobs space after LV by trying to bandwagon as many as you could. to say that your reason for releasing this information from an unbiased point of view would be a understatment as you have a very biased perspective of us (BoB) already. What i am getting at, is that i doubt the ISD incident about Raehkan's so called story being true and in actual fact it was a total fabrication of the truth. he was probably banned for other malicious acts that were done by him (probably in your favor or RA's) and as a goonie holds a grudge against bob and now ccp for banning him. this gave him his just cause to write what he has in your "Open Letter to CCP" then again im wondering if he even wrote it at all maybe it was another member who thought it would be a good idea to try and attack BOB through discrediting CCP even more either way we will find out once CCP makes their official statment about this
Kyguard Fire Mandrill	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:32:00 - [734] bleh One thing's clear.. this sucks - Latest Video
RadioWombat	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:33:00 - [735] Originally by: Robert Denby Edited by: Robert Denby on 26/05/2007 02:06:18 Isn't it funny how BoB and pets LOVE to call everyone "crybabies" and "whiners," yet someone lands next to one of their ships, and they go crying ON MSN to the developers? Instantly? OOOOOOOOOOOhhhhh, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, someone scratched my indestructible death machine, quick, get mommy on the phone, I want him grounded for the weekend. They have a ***train steamrolling over everything in their path, they strut about it like the biggest***s on the planet, and then whine over something this goddamn stupid? Seriously, what a bulging sac of wusses. Bullies are like that, man.
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:33:00 - [736] Edited by: Louis DelaBlanche on 26/05/2007 03:32:47 For those crying fowl of CCPs aparent lack of professionalism, Its important to remember that most GMs & indeed even Developers are not Professionals, theyre gamers. Unfortunately this means there will always be some who are unable to make the leap. Its same idealistic fallacy with the flawed business idea that someone good at their job will be good at managing others at that job. Having read the 14 pages of this (with hindsight a waste of 40minutes ) I personally only see one thing in here worth "investigating" & that is, not the ISD character being repremanded for getting too close to the BoB dreads (y he needed to get that close is not well explained in his explination); but how his subsequent ban (if it went how he says he did which as of yet is unfounded) came about. The darkstar1 affair? unfortunately handled no doubt but seemingly perfectly innocent in intent. Theres no REAL way for DS1 to know nobody petitioned a buggy pos, even if there wasnt really one. Wouldnt be the first time alts have been used to file petitions, for example. The "rigging" of rp events? in cases like that Angel Hel exchange, where there is no real seriousness to the consequence of who "wins", yes there is no excuse for "rigging" it & those responsible should be repremanded accordingly. But in instances like the Tetrimon Cult, the story has to be assured to progress in a way the game programmers can ensure its effects on the game at large are controlled & beneficial & in line with what they want as well as what those players involved might wish. the RP community is a small subset of EVE after all, & what they might see as good for them may not be to the benefit of the community at large. After all. what if, for example, there was a Guristaa invasion of Caldari space only the Guristas won? that would require some pretty serious changes to how the game plays & no doubt would really hurt many players game experience, & consequently were it ever to become a storyline, the result would be predetermined to come out in the states favor. EVE is only a sandbox in a rather broad sense. You can do what you want, as long as its withing the defined & confined series of rules & options given to you. Storylines are there to let you become immersed in, but its upto the writers, not the actors, to decide on its outcome. For me at least this latest "scandal" will be just another interesting read. I enjoy playing this game with those i do too much to simply click the cancel subscription button over it. Could this game be run better? certainly. But from what ive seen heard & read with issues like this; each time CCP is accused of reaching a new low, a group of those accusing them manages to drag themselves even lower in response. Employees of CCP should act professionally &, dare i say it, "grown up". But on those instances where someone gets it wrong, that shouldnt mean we as paying players can start acting like children about it, with the justification that our tantrums get responses. Its good that these things are brought to light to be discussed & debated; its unfortunate what a spontanious, runaway & depressingly predictable response soon occurs when they do. edit: omg jumped 10 pages since i started writing this
Drago Vanguard	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:34:00 - [737] The complete lack of any form of professionalism in CCP is mind boggling. Anybody know when Pirates of the Burning Sea is released?
Dtar Yarl	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:34:00 - [738] Listen, stop hassling them, they did the what was needed, was to stop what the problem was, and try to fix....Let's credit that to their account!
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:34:00 - [739] Originally by: 1337tong Did your alliance even consider that before spaming as many threads as they could?? Yeah, actually, they did. Read, comprehend, then post.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:34:00 - [740] Originally by: squidgee Edited by: squidgee on 26/05/2007 03:20:35 Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad That is how eve works, get over it. This is the problem with BoB. Right here. Cheating? That's how EVE works. MSN contact with devs? That's how EVE works. Devs spying for you? That's how eve works. Bend over and take it, because apparently corruption and cheating are just how eve works. And before you try to deny you're bob again: Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Bob is just doing what any normel humans would do. Because we are normal human beings who just enjoy eve, unlike you t1 goonies who just want to ruin it. Nice typo. Colluding with Devs and GMs isn't "being normal human beings," it's cheating. I'm not bob, I just made a typo besidies, you need to stfu until your alliance can actually hold your space Bob has just tried to be friendly to the people who made this game nad you're trying to destroy it. if you really liked eve you'd shut up and get in touch with eve before whining on the forums. Your alliance is already ruining hte game with spies and lag exploits and crapping up 0.0 with your noobs who don't deserve to be there, you don't need to do any more to hurt the game. All of you goonies need to stop posting and hyurting eve.
Crimson Ghostly	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:35:00 - [741] When can we expect a reply on this CCP?
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:35:00 - [742] Originally by: Inturist Are you drunk?
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:36:00 - [743] Originally by: 1337tong Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate Here is the problem with you and Blacklights argument: 1. DS1 petitioned this as soon as they saw a GM had been in their corp. That petition was deleted. That's right, a guy asking why a GM had roles in their corp and then left didn't recieve an answer, his question was deleted. 2. As of right now, no members of DS1 have stepped forward saying they petitioned this. The CEO stepped forward and said he didn't even think they had any POSs needing investigation. So we tried taking this directly to CCP, but instead of an answer, our petitions were deleted, which forced this. so let me get this straight none of ds1 members stepped forward? did you bother to ask each and everyone of those who had starbase control about it to confirm that they didnt petition it before starting the spam parade? sometimes petitions dont work there is a escalating option where you could of e-mailed one of them to ask them to check on this. Did your alliance even consider that before spaming as many threads as they could?? as for the ISD incident my only comment about that is following your alliance not only brought the T20 incident publicly to the eve populace but also used it as a means to increase your chances at taking bobs space after LV by trying to bandwagon as many as you could. to say that your reason for releasing this information from an unbiased point of view would be a understatment as you have a very biased perspective of us (BoB) already. What i am getting at, is that i doubt the ISD incident about Raehkan's so called story being true and in actual fact it was a total fabrication of the truth. he was probably banned for other malicious acts that were done by him (probably in your favor or RA's) and as a goonie holds a grudge against bob and now ccp for banning him. this gave him his just cause to write what he has in your "Open Letter to CCP" then again im wondering if he even wrote it at all maybe it was another member who thought it would be a good idea to try and attack BOB through discrediting CCP even more either way we will find out once CCP makes their official statment about this For anyone not willing to read this wall of text: Yes, we have CCP contacts, yes, most of the allegations are 100% factual but making it public was the wrong thing to do IMO.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:36:00 - [744] Edited by: Stahlregen on 26/05/2007 03:35:23 Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Originally by: squidgee Edited by: squidgee on 26/05/2007 03:20:35 Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad That is how eve works, get over it. This is the problem with BoB. Right here. Cheating? That's how EVE works. MSN contact with devs? That's how EVE works. Devs spying for you? That's how eve works. Bend over and take it, because apparently corruption and cheating are just how eve works. And before you try to deny you're bob again: Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Bob is just doing what any normel humans would do. Because we are normal human beings who just enjoy eve, unlike you t1 goonies who just want to ruin it. Nice typo. Colluding with Devs and GMs isn't "being normal human beings," it's cheating. I'm not bob, I just made a typo besidies, you need to stfu until your alliance can actually hold your space Bob has just tried to be friendly to the people who made this game nad you're trying to destroy it. if you really liked eve you'd shut up and get in touch with eve before whining on the forums. Your alliance is already ruining hte game with spies and lag exploits and crapping up 0.0 with your noobs who don't deserve to be there, you don't need to do any more to hurt the game. All of you goonies need to stop posting and hyurting eve. Nah, I'm pretty sure you're bob edit: or the best reverse troll i have ever seen
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:36:00 - [745] Originally by: Inturist Strange , maybe it is something wrong with my head Ou wait Only if u gave order to ALL goonies to troll like that ABout Down's sindrome , u know about it from urself expirience ? Or the doctors can't help u anymore with that ? i'll quote u Wow. Just, wow. Is it really that hard to use your "shift", "y", "o", "spacebar", and "Enter" key properly? I mean, really, man. You are displaying a serious lack of effort here. Display some self respect. It's almost sad.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:36:00 - [746] Originally by: Drago Vanguard Anybody know when Pirates of the Burning Sea is released? It sucks. It is terrible. Sorry, but place your hopes elsewhere. You heard it here first.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:36:00 - [747] Originally by: 1337tong Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate Here is the problem with you and Blacklights argument: 1. DS1 petitioned this as soon as they saw a GM had been in their corp. That petition was deleted. That's right, a guy asking why a GM had roles in their corp and then left didn't recieve an answer, his question was deleted. 2. As of right now, no members of DS1 have stepped forward saying they petitioned this. The CEO stepped forward and said he didn't even think they had any POSs needing investigation. So we tried taking this directly to CCP, but instead of an answer, our petitions were deleted, which forced this. so let me get this straight none of ds1 members stepped forward? did you bother to ask each and everyone of those who had starbase control about it to confirm that they didnt petition it before starting the spam parade? sometimes petitions dont work there is a escalating option where you could of e-mailed one of them to ask them to check on this. Did your alliance even consider that before spaming as many threads as they could?? DS1 has investigated the matter, and all three POSs were working as intended, and there is no information at this time about a POS malfunction. The petition worked fine, it was just deleted.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:36:00 - [748] Edited by: Jonas Vance on 26/05/2007 03:35:56 Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Originally by: squidgee Edited by: squidgee on 26/05/2007 03:20:35 Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad That is how eve works, get over it. This is the problem with BoB. Right here. Cheating? That's how EVE works. MSN contact with devs? That's how EVE works. Devs spying for you? That's how eve works. Bend over and take it, because apparently corruption and cheating are just how eve works. And before you try to deny you're bob again: Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Bob is just doing what any normel humans would do. Because we are normal human beings who just enjoy eve, unlike you t1 goonies who just want to ruin it. Nice typo. Colluding with Devs and GMs isn't "being normal human beings," it's cheating. I'm not bob, I just made a typo besidies, you need to stfu until your alliance can actually hold your space Bob has just tried to be friendly to the people who made this game nad you're trying to destroy it. if you really liked eve you'd shut up and get in touch with eve before whining on the forums. Your alliance is already ruining hte game with spies and lag exploits and crapping up 0.0 with your noobs who don't deserve to be there, you don't need to do any more to hurt the game. All of you goonies need to stop posting and hyurting eve. This has nothing to do about e-peen or holding space, it's about cheating Dev's and players, stop deflecting the real issue.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:36:00 - [749] Originally by: 1337tong Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate Here is the problem with you and Blacklights argument: 1. DS1 petitioned this as soon as they saw a GM had been in their corp. That petition was deleted. That's right, a guy asking why a GM had roles in their corp and then left didn't recieve an answer, his question was deleted. 2. As of right now, no members of DS1 have stepped forward saying they petitioned this. The CEO stepped forward and said he didn't even think they had any POSs needing investigation. So we tried taking this directly to CCP, but instead of an answer, our petitions were deleted, which forced this. so let me get this straight none of ds1 members stepped forward? did you bother to ask each and everyone of those who had starbase control about it to confirm that they didnt petition it before starting the spam parade? sometimes petitions dont work there is a escalating option where you could of e-mailed one of them to ask them to check on this. Did your alliance even consider that before spaming as many threads as they could?? as for the ISD incident my only comment about that is following your alliance not only brought the T20 incident publicly to the eve populace but also used it as a means to increase your chances at taking bobs space after LV by trying to bandwagon as many as you could. to say that your reason for releasing this information from an unbiased point of view would be a understatment as you have a very biased perspective of us (BoB) already. What i am getting at, is that i doubt the ISD incident about Raehkan's so called story being true and in actual fact it was a total fabrication of the truth. he was probably banned for other malicious acts that were done by him (probably in your favor or RA's) and as a goonie holds a grudge against bob and now ccp for banning him. this gave him his just cause to write what he has in your "Open Letter to CCP" then again im wondering if he even wrote it at all maybe it was another member who thought it would be a good idea to try and attack BOB through discrediting CCP even more either way we will find out once CCP makes their official statment about this Can GS open up a convo to you guys next time so you can IM the devs? The only reason this thread is about BoB is because you are using back channels to cheat. If you don't want to get dirt on your hands stay out of the mud. Your attempts at deflecting the issue are hilarious.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:38:00 - [750] Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche Edited by: Louis DelaBlanche on 26/05/2007 03:32:47 For those crying fowl of CCPs aparent lack of professionalism, Its important to remember that most GMs & indeed even Developers are not Professionals, theyre gamers. Unfortunately this means there will always be some who are unable to make the leap. Its same idealistic fallacy with the flawed business idea that someone good at their job will be good at managing others at that job. Having read the 14 pages of this (with hindsight a waste of 40minutes ) I personally only see one thing in here worth "investigating" & that is, not the ISD character being repremanded for getting too close to the BoB dreads (y he needed to get that close is not well explained in his explination); but how his subsequent ban (if it went how he says he did which as of yet is unfounded) came about. The darkstar1 affair? unfortunately handled no doubt but seemingly perfectly innocent in intent. Theres no REAL way for DS1 to know nobody petitioned a buggy pos, even if there wasnt really one. Wouldnt be the first time alts have been used to file petitions, for example. The "rigging" of rp events? in cases like that Angel Hel exchange, where there is no real seriousness to the consequence of who "wins", yes there is no excuse for "rigging" it & those responsible should be repremanded accordingly. But in instances like the Tetrimon Cult, the story has to be assured to progress in a way the game programmers can ensure its effects on the game at large are controlled & beneficial & in line with what they want as well as what those players involved might wish. the RP community is a small subset of EVE after all, & what they might see as good for them may not be to the benefit of the community at large. After all. what if, for example, there was a Guristaa invasion of Caldari space only the Guristas won? that would require some pretty serious changes to how the game plays & no doubt would really hurt many players game experience, & consequently were it ever to become a storyline, the result would be predetermined to come out in the states favor. EVE is only a sandbox in a rather broad sense. You can do what you want, as long as its withing the defined & confined series of rules & options given to you. Storylines are there to let you become immersed in, but its upto the writers, not the actors, to decide on its outcome. For me at least this latest "scandal" will be just another interesting read. I enjoy playing this game with those i do too much to simply click the cancel subscription button over it. Could this game be run better? certainly. But from what ive seen heard & read with issues like this; each time CCP is accused of reaching a new low, a group of those accusing them manages to drag themselves even lower in response. Employees of CCP should act professionally &, dare i say it, "grown up". But on those instances where someone gets it wrong, that shouldnt mean we as paying players can start acting like children about it, with the justification that our tantrums get responses. Its good that these things are brought to light to be discussed & debated; its unfortunate what a spontanious, runaway & depressingly predictable response soon occurs when they do. edit: omg jumped 10 pages since i started writing this To keep things fair and balanced and save you from another wall of text, this is a BoB pet and the post doesn't even deny anything. Another "it's just some dev misconduct, nothing serious, right guys?".
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:39:00 - [751] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Drago Vanguard Anybody know when Pirates of the Burning Sea is released? It sucks. It is terrible. Sorry, but place your hopes elsewhere. You heard it here first. I saw a link for this "Infinity" space game on "THAT GUY'S WEBSITE". It looked pretty cool on YouTube. It's twitch based like a flight sim, though. Not sure how well that would work. Still in development as well I guess.
Farham AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:39:00 - [752] Quote: the allegation that BoB is able to reach CCP staff with a simple MSN message, bypassing the petition system used by honest players. If nothing else turns out to be true we know for a fact with Dianabolic's admission, regardless of reason, BOB directors boast of being able to directly contact CCP Devs via MSN chat. I have played almost all the MMOs to come down the pipe and while every game has had "fan fest" type situations where people know each other the most "contact" that was ever permitted was forum play. The reason? Because the moment you cross the line and become IRC chat buddies or real life contacts you lose any and all integrity. EVE is a game. Friendships are common and are the point of playing a game like EVE. CCP is a company. Business relationships are business and I don't care if you know members of CCP the relationship between CCP and its paying customers should never, ever go beyond business only. Intrepid Crossing Diplomat and All Around Major Idiot
Ryunosuke Kusanagi	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:39:00 - [753] a question does arise though, CAN hypothetically CCP be held accountable for said actions? (ie. causing undo hardships upon themselves by doing this stuff in the first place?)
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:40:00 - [754] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Jonas Vance Please stop ignoring the rest of the community and making this a political issue BoB. This is about CHeATING, EXPLOITING and having illicit dealings with GM's. All proven so far. But they have played for 4 years, they should be allowed to cheat. and here i thought or read that CCP werent giving away 4 year old birthday presents to old players. Damn im from 2003, unfortunatly i avoided the high drama alliance rubbish, could be why im not recieving freebies, maybe i should reconsider and join erm "an" alliance. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Pusher Bott GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:40:00 - [755] Originally by: ApathyKills That's not the issue at all. The issue is that you HAVE cheated. It was acknowledged. In the real world when organizations cheat they are forced to disband. That's just how it goes, so suck it up and deal with it that since you haven't been forced to break apart you ARE being given preferential treatment and it ISN'T fair/right. Forcing BoB to disband is a pointless exercise, and fails to address the real issue here. Disbanding BoB wouldn't immediately force CCP to be upstanding and forthright. They could just as easily continue to assist their friends wherever they end up, and it would likely be far easier to bury the evidence if it isn't localized in one corp. Simple fact of the matter is, there is only one way for CCP to regain full credibility and absolve themselves of further allegations, and I guaran-effing-tee you that it will not ever happen. And that way is: Full disclosure and ongoing audit by an independent third party organization (that's right, White Wolf can't do the audit). I know I'd feel a lot better about this game if there was a nerd(ier) version of Deloitte & Touche monitoring CCP employee actions. Given that there are ongoing issues which are not being addressed publicly, it's obvious that Arkanon's new position was merely lip service to quell a distrusting fan base. And that, friends, leaves an even more bitter taste in my mouth (not to cast aspersions on Arkanon's character or credibility; if his bosses are the ones pulling the strings his hands are effectively tied). If CCP was truly interested in putting their past improprieties behind them, they'd take the further step of proving their commitment to running a clean operation. I can guarantee you this will not happen. And please, spare me the 'financial implications' argument. Financial penalty is the result of impropriety and as far as I'm concerned, it's a small penalty to pay to restore the game they claim to love so much to it's former glory.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:40:00 - [756] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Drago Vanguard Anybody know when Pirates of the Burning Sea is released? It sucks. It is terrible. Sorry, but place your hopes elsewhere. You heard it here first. I'm mostly waiting on that warhammer 40k mmog. I hope it doesn't get messed up.
Stoic Champion	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:40:00 - [757] I have read the posts, the open letter and the Dev Responce and all I can say is: The Coalition Train has finally ran off its tracks. These so called allegations are as yet just that allegations. The letter by Goons and quote of the Dev is one of the most vague pieces I have ever heard. It jumps to conclusions and assumes everything its wants to be correct is correct. REally this whole affair makes me sick. Sick that so many young men of my generation are so frantic when faced with something they cant deal with. For Months I have seen the forums completly dominated by Coalition Smack. Whats worse is not only is most of the smack Pro-Coalition but most Trolls illegalize dissent. If their ever is someone who has the guts to disagree with Goons or the Coalition they are immediatly shot down as Bob Alt or Newb or whatever childish name is in style at the time. I admit the COAD war is important but maybe why the Coalition is getting smashed in the teeth everywhere is that they spend all their time in COAD while BOB and Friends spend their time on the battlefield. Truely, most of the posts from the Coalition are just plain lies. Claiming kills that didnt happen, attributing BOB victories to the Devs and sticking to propagada abotu BoBs allies being dead or pets. Well folks, theses lies are finally catching up to you, limiting your battlefuiled soulubility. Coalition Regions are falling like dominoes before a much smaller force. Why, because the coalition is being outthought, outfought AND BOB doesnt run around screaming DEV hacks, Deve hacks Listen, battles are won by preparation and thought not running around screaming ZMG DEV HACks. I am a meritcrat and it is literally beyond my comprehension that people could dillute their intelligence so much. Stop obsessing over the hack thing and go fight, u do or did outnumber them. Stop whining and think. When faced with a challenge it is up to you to deal with it. It is up to you to come up with a soultion. It is up to you to come up with a tactic or strategy. If you really dont like BOB, and really believe all the lies you tell about them, then go out their act like men and use your heads for more then "Zomg we killed a carrier"
Asimov Machinow	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:41:00 - [758] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/05/2007 01:40:28 Originally by: Wrayeth It saddens me to say that I've run into two occasions where I'm almost certain a dev or GM was assisting BoB and their lackeys. The first was during the F-T siege where CCP imposed a 700-player cap without telling anyone (except BoB, it seems), resulting in us jumping 200-odd capitals into the system and our support fleet being unable to even attempt to fulfill their role - they couldn't even jumnp into the system. Local never exceeded 500 in F-TE, as far as I know. The cap was a myth made up by the Coalition. Yes, the lag was absolutely absurd, but there was no cap as anyone who got in the system can tell you. BS, I have screenshot of trying to login in the system next door which says something akin to "the cluster has reached limit". I don't think it said specific number but it did refer to either cluster or node which suggests more than one system. So whatever the cap was, it affected 2 systems away from F-T which is where most of the support fleet got stuck jumping in, presumably the "edge" of the affected node/cluster.
Foopadoo	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:41:00 - [759] Originally by: 1337tong Edited by: 1337tong on 26/05/2007 03:35:40 Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate Here is the problem with you and Blacklights argument: 1. DS1 petitioned this as soon as they saw a GM had been in their corp. That petition was deleted. That's right, a guy asking why a GM had roles in their corp and then left didn't recieve an answer, his question was deleted. 2. As of right now, no members of DS1 have stepped forward saying they petitioned this. The CEO stepped forward and said he didn't even think they had any POSs needing investigation. So we tried taking this directly to CCP, but instead of an answer, our petitions were deleted, which forced this. so let me get this straight none of ds1 members stepped forward? did you bother to ask each and everyone of those who had starbase control about it to confirm that they didnt petition it before starting the spam parade? sometimes petitions dont work there is a escalating option where you could of e-mailed one of them (CCP/Devs)to ask them to check on this. Did your alliance even consider that before spaming as many threads as they could?? as for the ISD incident my only comment about that is following your alliance not only brought the T20 incident publicly to the eve populace but also used it as a means to increase your chances at taking bobs space after LV by trying to bandwagon as many as you could. to say that your reason for releasing this information from an unbiased point of view would be a understatment as you have a very biased perspective of us (BoB) already. What i am getting at, is that i doubt the ISD incident about Raehkan's so called story being true and in actual fact it was a total fabrication of the truth. he was probably banned for other malicious acts that were done by him (probably in your favor or RA's) and as a goonie holds a grudge against bob and now ccp for banning him. this gave him his just cause to write what he has in your "Open Letter to CCP" then again im wondering if he even wrote it at all maybe it was another member who thought it would be a good idea to try and attack BOB through discrediting CCP even more either way we will find out once CCP makes their official statment about this Calm down.
Zylatis Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:41:00 - [760] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Zylatis Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: luminoll fraternization between CCP employees and players should not be allowed and strictly enforced. This policy would have avoided this. Joined a police state recently? Uhhh being gagged for revealing the truth? sounds like we're already in one. Ever read the TOS? Except you are still free to voice your "truth", just not on here - and nowhere on these forums, in the eula or the TOS does it say you have any rights to say anything what so ever. Read them, they're enlightening. Doesn't say we cant either.
KSUDruid Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:42:00 - [761] Goodbye Goons.. It's been great knowing ya. Now you've got your excuse to leave, because it's impossible you could have gotten bear fair and square. POTBS is that way, go zerg another game and claim you're uber, no one here cares anymore. -Druid Current RKK Ranking: (CAL11) Sabre
Orange Species Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:42:00 - [762] i don't think anyone else needs to post here tbh, just let goons/goon alts go on a rampage, they make themselves look more like idiots than any of us could make them look :) No wonder you normally have a perm-forum ban :) *awaits replies from goons of wargh off-topic wargh, deflection,wargh but but but but but" Quit whilst your not ahead. ----------------------------
Zylatis Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:42:00 - [763] Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche Edited by: Louis DelaBlanche on 26/05/2007 03:32:47 For those crying fowl of CCPs aparent lack of professionalism, Its important to remember that most GMs & indeed even Developers are not Professionals, theyre gamers. Unfortunately this means there will always be some who are unable to make the leap. Its same idealistic fallacy with the flawed business idea that someone good at their job will be good at managing others Not the point. If they want to be paid like professionals, they gotta act like it.
DiuxDium Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:42:00 - [764] Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Thank you for confirming one of the allegations. I'm sure your buddies at CCP will appreciate it that you admit you have a relationship with CCP that allows you to get preferential treatment. Nothing coming from a BoB members mouth has said anything about preferential treatment. Actually, he said that any such case should be delt with harshly. Your attempts to put words in his mouth not only undermines your supposed moral high ground, but makes up 'fence sitters' consider you just another face in the 'drama idiots' crowd. Grats on undermining your own cause. ------------- The above user should never be taken seriously.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:42:00 - [765] Originally by: Stoic Champion The Coalition Train has finally ran off its tracks. Much like your posting.
Caztra Tor	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:43:00 - [766] Well, slap my monkey and call him shorty ain't this some stuff! I would appreciate it if they would stop helping Bob. Now that does irritate me a tad. Ah well, perhaps with all those leaving, we will have less lag before Eve goes down on me. I will wait it out to see how things go, but when it is just me and Bob; I'm outta here. Caztra Tor
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:44:00 - [767] Originally by: DiuxDium Nothing coming from a BoB members mouth has said anything about preferential treatment. Really? Because I don't have dev access. So maybe the treatment is just a little preferential?
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:45:00 - [768] Originally by: Orange Species i don't think anyone else needs to post here tbh, just let goons/goon alts go on a rampage, they make themselves look more like idiots than any of us could make them look :) No wonder you normally have a perm-forum ban :) *awaits replies from goons of wargh off-topic wargh, deflection,wargh but but but but but" Quit whilst your not ahead. I don't think anyone looks more like an idiot than Dian with his multiple posts admitting to BOB having direct contact with CCP staff, and basically justifying his cheating by having played for a long time. I wonder if Molle told him to stop posting.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:45:00 - [769] Originally by: 1337tong Edited by: 1337tong on 26/05/2007 03:35:40 Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate Here is the problem with you and Blacklights argument: 1. DS1 petitioned this as soon as they saw a GM had been in their corp. That petition was deleted. That's right, a guy asking why a GM had roles in their corp and then left didn't recieve an answer, his question was deleted. 2. As of right now, no members of DS1 have stepped forward saying they petitioned this. The CEO stepped forward and said he didn't even think they had any POSs needing investigation. So we tried taking this directly to CCP, but instead of an answer, our petitions were deleted, which forced this. so let me get this straight none of ds1 members stepped forward? did you bother to ask each and everyone of those who had starbase control about it to confirm that they didnt petition it before starting the spam parade? sometimes petitions dont work there is a escalating option where you could of e-mailed one of them (CCP/Devs)to ask them to check on this. Did your alliance even consider that before spaming as many threads as they could?? as for the ISD incident my only comment about that is following your alliance not only brought the T20 incident publicly to the eve populace but also used it as a means to increase your chances at taking bobs space after LV by trying to bandwagon as many as you could. to say that your reason for releasing this information from an unbiased point of view would be a understatment as you have a very biased perspective of us (BoB) already. What i am getting at, is that i doubt the ISD incident about Raehkan's so called story being true and in actual fact it was a total fabrication of the truth. he was probably banned for other malicious acts that were done by him (probably in your favor or RA's) and as a goonie holds a grudge against bob and now ccp for banning him. this gave him his just cause to write what he has in your "Open Letter to CCP" then again im wondering if he even wrote it at all maybe it was another member who thought it would be a good idea to try and attack BOB through discrediting CCP even more either way we will find out once CCP makes their official statment about this The DS1 issue is minor in comparison to members of your alliance admitting that they have open out-of-game channels of resolving in-game issues because they have "friends" on the staff. You can keep deflecting the blame on Goons for their behavior, but their means has been proven by CCP to be the only way to get these issues the attention they deserve, both in this case, and also with the T20 incident. For those that missed it, that drama llama was also deleted, modded, and banned away until it was spammed to hell and back and CCP was forced to address it in their own ineffective way. -------------------------------------
deadtear GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:45:00 - [770] Originally by: Orange Species i don't think anyone else needs to post here tbh, just let goons/goon alts go on a rampage, they make themselves look more like idiots than any of us could make them look :) No wonder you normally have a perm-forum ban :) *awaits replies from goons of wargh off-topic wargh, deflection,wargh but but but but but" Quit whilst your not ahead. Not a damn thing we say can make us look worse than Dianabolic did for you.
DiuxDium Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:45:00 - [771] Originally by: Angelus Damelon Originally by: Stoic Champion The Coalition Train has finally ran off its tracks. Much like your posting. Ohh god more please. How about the old zinger "Just like you" or perhaps the classic "Much like your posting"...ohh drat, we've gone over that one already. Hey guys. ITT DRAMA. Let's inflate our non existent post count, e-fame awaits in the drama llama camp. ------------- The above user should never be taken seriously.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:46:00 - [772] Originally by: Stoic Champion These so called allegations are as yet just that allegations. Let me stop you right there, Dianabolic already admitted pretty much everything so let's stop the "Oh it's just allegations!" spin, it's "but guys, we've played for a long time, know the devs in person and should be allowed some perks..and t2 bpos, and bugged 10/10 complexes...oh and strange serpentis events that drop billions in core-x gear and god knows what else" spin line we are doing now. Dianabolic is doing pretty well with it, you should get on it.
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:46:00 - [773] Originally by: DiuxDium Nothing coming from a BoB members mouth has said anything about preferential treatment. Er... I think you're wrong on that one. Regularly chatting with developers on MSN about the game is by definition preferential treatment. Certainly none of us get the same treatment?
DiuxDium Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:46:00 - [774] Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: DiuxDium Nothing coming from a BoB members mouth has said anything about preferential treatment. Really? Because I don't have dev access. So maybe the treatment is just a little preferential? No, it isn't. ------------- The above user should never be taken seriously.
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:47:00 - [775] Originally by: Orange Species i don't think anyone else needs to post here tbh, just let goons/goon alts go on a rampage, they make themselves look more like idiots than any of us could make them look :) No wonder you normally have a perm-forum ban :) *awaits replies from goons of wargh off-topic wargh, deflection,wargh but but but but but" Quit whilst your not ahead. http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html Your move.
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:47:00 - [776] Originally by: DiuxDium Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: DiuxDium Nothing coming from a BoB members mouth has said anything about preferential treatment. Really? Because I don't have dev access. So maybe the treatment is just a little preferential? No, it isn't. You might want to look up "preferential" there, champ.
Metal Face	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:47:00 - [777] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Since, as you say we should "engage" with the devs, can you list their MSN names so the entire community can "ENGAGE" with them? Please?
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:47:00 - [778] Edited by: Virtuoso DeToure on 26/05/2007 03:46:49 Originally by: DiuxDium Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: DiuxDium Nothing coming from a BoB members mouth has said anything about preferential treatment. Really? Because I don't have dev access. So maybe the treatment is just a little preferential? No, it isn't. Yes, yes it is. http://www.answers.com/preferential&r=67
Inspiration	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:47:00 - [779] I just like to make a posting telling I refuse to read a zillion pages of trash talk. Nothing of what might could/has happened even affected me in any way noticable. Let the CCP peeps do their job, they must be well aware by now on how some players feel about "smoke".
Welfare State GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:47:00 - [780] Edited by: Welfare State on 26/05/2007 03:47:43 Originally by: KSUDruid Goodbye Goons.. It's been great knowing ya. Now you've got your excuse to leave, because it's impossible you could have gotten bear fair and square. POTBS is that way, go zerg another game and claim you're uber, no one here cares anymore. I know it's hard to believe, but is it possible for you to even understandthat we actually like to play this game and want it to be fair for everyone? I know it's a stretch, but come on. :( I get that you hate us, think we're a cancer on EVE/the internet/the world blah blah blah, but to be quite honest, I can't understand how you people think we hate this game when we constantly encourage our friends to give EVE a try. if a group of people wanted to leave a game because of cheating they'd...leave, they wouldn't try to make people aware of the misconduct.
DiuxDium Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:48:00 - [781] Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: DiuxDium Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: DiuxDium Nothing coming from a BoB members mouth has said anything about preferential treatment. Really? Because I don't have dev access. So maybe the treatment is just a little preferential? No, it isn't. You might want to look up "preferential" there, champ. You may wish to look up "friends" there, champ. No real life experience is no excuse for ignorance. ------------- The above user should never be taken seriously.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:48:00 - [782] Edited by: Jita TradeAlt on 26/05/2007 03:47:21 Originally by: DiuxDium Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: DiuxDium Nothing coming from a BoB members mouth has said anything about preferential treatment. Really? Because I don't have dev access. So maybe the treatment is just a little preferential? No, it isn't. Yes, it is. By the way, Dixum is another Bob pet-
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:48:00 - [783] Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:48:00 - [784] Originally by: DiuxDium Originally by: Angelus Damelon Originally by: Stoic Champion The Coalition Train has finally ran off its tracks. Much like your posting. Ohh god more please. How about the old zinger "Just like you" or perhaps the classic "Much like your posting"...ohh drat, we've gone over that one already. Hey guys. ITT DRAMA. Let's inflate our non existent post count, e-fame awaits in the drama llama camp. Calm down.
Dufas Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:48:00 - [785] Apparently goons r so afraid of bob that before goonies go to bed they have orders to check their closet to be sure molle wont jump out at them
Lart Arja Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:48:00 - [786] This whole situation is sad. Eve is a great game but it is really starting to look like there are some in CCP who would rather have an MMO emulator with just them and their elite friends playing on a private server. Apparently the rest of us 'noobs' just don't know our places since we dare to expect competence, honesty, and a level playing field.
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:49:00 - [787] Edited by: Shar''Tuk TheHated on 26/05/2007 03:49:22 Originally by: Kuang Edited by: Kuang on 26/05/2007 00:25:59 Originally by: Chronus26 Just one piece of advice for anybody following this drama: Never forget that not everything you read is the truth, personal accounts can be biasd, they can be edited, rearranged, fabricated even to distort the truth to sombodys advantage. We do not have the whole story infront of us, we have only the testimony of one person with his/her own agenda. Just dont pass judgment till you've heard all there is to hear, and try to make up your own mind instead of just hopping on yet another bandwagon. BEST POST IN THIS THREAD /signed
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:49:00 - [788] Originally by: Welfare State Originally by: KSUDruid Goodbye Goons.. It's been great knowing ya. Now you've got your excuse to leave, because it's impossible you could have gotten bear fair and square. POTBS is that way, go zerg another game and claim you're uber, no one here cares anymore. I know it's hard to believe, but is it possible for you to even understandthat we actually like to play this game and want it to be fair for everyone? I know it's a stretch, but come on. :( I get that you hate us, think we're a cancer on EVE/the internet/the world blah blah blah, but to be quite honest, I can't understand how you people think we hate this game when we constantly encourage our friends to give EVE a try. welp, No, no. Don't you understand? We actively recruit thousands of our friends so that Remedial can buy more ham. Not even Goons like playing with Goons. :forumsmiley:
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:50:00 - [789] Originally by: Dufas Apparently goons r so afraid of bob that before goonies go to bed they have orders to check their closet to be sure molle wont jump out at them (bob pet, according to bob internal forums then they don't like them much for losing so many battleships, but finding replacements is proving to be hard)
DiuxDium Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:50:00 - [790] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: DiuxDium Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: DiuxDium Nothing coming from a BoB members mouth has said anything about preferential treatment. Really? Because I don't have dev access. So maybe the treatment is just a little preferential? No, it isn't. Yes, it is. Ohh good grief, the Jita trade alt disagrees with me! Woe my ability to understand that being friends with the creators of the game is in no way 'special' treatment so long as an abuse of power does not occur. The abuse of powers that have/may have happened are disgraceful to say the least, but in no way impact the ideas of friendship. Simply put, treatment is not preferential if the relationship was simply that between friends, and not of one based upon exploitation of power. ------------- The above user should never be taken seriously.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:51:00 - [791] Originally by: Pusher Bott Forcing BoB to disband is a pointless exercise, and fails to address the real issue here. Agreed. There's a lot of vitriol being aimed at BoB but this really is not BoB's fault and punishing BoB won't fix the issue (as removing the T2 BPOs didn't fix things after the last scandal). Yes, BoB used their out of game contacts with devs to circumvent the in game mechanics but the fault doesn't lie with them. Let's be honest, we're all familiar with how hard it can be to get even clear cut petitions answered at times, if we all had a group of devs we could IM to sort things out I'm sure plenty of us would. The real issue, and the real fault, lies with CCP for not adequately policing their staff and allowing them to develop close ties with certain alliances and corps in the game. Evidently they were operating under the assumption that their staff, even those (of which there are many) recruited from the player base, would be able to act with impartiality even while maintaining friendships with powerful players in the game. It's becoming pretty clear that this is simply not the case. There needs to be hard and fast rules put in place that devs and GMs must disclose any real life friendships or past game relationships they have with alliances, corps and players and they then should be completely removed from being involved in decisions related to and divulging information to those groups.
Welfare State GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:51:00 - [792] Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Welfare State Originally by: KSUDruid Goodbye Goons.. It's been great knowing ya. Now you've got your excuse to leave, because it's impossible you could have gotten bear fair and square. POTBS is that way, go zerg another game and claim you're uber, no one here cares anymore. I know it's hard to believe, but is it possible for you to even understandthat we actually like to play this game and want it to be fair for everyone? I know it's a stretch, but come on. :( I get that you hate us, think we're a cancer on EVE/the internet/the world blah blah blah, but to be quite honest, I can't understand how you people think we hate this game when we constantly encourage our friends to give EVE a try. welp, No, no. Don't you understand? We actively recruit thousands of our friends so that Remedial can buy more ham. Not even Goons like playing with Goons. :forumsmiley: I forgot to pay my tithe to the Hamlord and he ate my goat.
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:51:00 - [793] Originally by: KSUDruid Goodbye Goons.. It's been great knowing ya. Now you've got your excuse to leave, because it's impossible you could have gotten bear fair and square. POTBS is that way, go zerg another game and claim you're uber, no one here cares anymore. Who said we were quitting? We want a little retribution, that's all. Maybe a little blood, too.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:52:00 - [794] Originally by: Orange Species i don't think anyone else needs to post here tbh, just let goons/goon alts go on a rampage, they make themselves look more like idiots than any of us could make them look :) No wonder you normally have a perm-forum ban :) *awaits replies from goons of wargh off-topic wargh, deflection,wargh but but but but but" Quit whilst your not ahead. right on
Visakoth	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:52:00 - [795] Originally by: Metal Face Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? Since, as you say we should "engage" with the devs, can you list their MSN names so the entire community can "ENGAGE" with them? Please? I agree with this!
Gavin Dropbear Dropbear Army	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:52:00 - [796] Originally by: Angelus Damelon Originally by: DiuxDium Originally by: Angelus Damelon Originally by: Stoic Champion The Coalition Train has finally ran off its tracks. Much like your posting. Ohh god more please. How about the old zinger "Just like you" or perhaps the classic "Much like your posting"...ohh drat, we've gone over that one already. Hey guys. ITT DRAMA. Let's inflate our non existent post count, e-fame awaits in the drama llama camp. Calm down. Calm up.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:52:00 - [797] Originally by: DiuxDium Ohh good grief, the Jita trade alt disagrees with me! Woe my ability to understand that being friends with the creators of the game is in no way 'special' treatment so long as an abuse of power does not occur. The abuse of powers that have/may have happened are disgraceful to say the least, but in no way impact the ideas of friendship. Simply put, treatment is not preferential if the relationship was simply that between friends, and not of one based upon exploitation of power. So you agree that Bob abused their relationship with CCP? Very well then, good of you to be honest at last.
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:52:00 - [798] Originally by: DiuxDium Simply put, treatment is not preferential if the relationship was simply that between friends, and not of one based upon exploitation of power. Yes except CCP have taken the "relationship" beyond "friends" in the past. This is where I namedrop t20.
Iraf Thaiberd GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:53:00 - [799] Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. Afternoon OrangeSpecies is the only one that can DD competently though. Really you guys should use VNC instead of RDP so you can at least monitor each other for cross-training purposes.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:53:00 - [800] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Originally by: Orange Species i don't think anyone else needs to post here tbh, just let goons/goon alts go on a rampage, they make themselves look more like idiots than any of us could make them look :) No wonder you normally have a perm-forum ban :) *awaits replies from goons of wargh off-topic wargh, deflection,wargh but but but but but" Quit whilst your not ahead. right on
Shihuangdi	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:55:00 - [801] If we do not have the whole truth it's because CCP has been sidestepping the issue. As a new customer, this is extremely disappointing from an ostensibly professional company. The fact of the matter is, would investors or other companies want to work with a company that can't even keep its own staff under some basic control? I have played several MMORPGs and I have never seen such atrocious behaviour. CCP isn't even keeping up the illusion of creating a bias-free environment. Yes, the rest all suck too, but I've never seen any lose such complete authority, and this is what will happen to CCP if they don't settle this issue in a decisive manner.
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:55:00 - [802] Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. Afternoon OrangeSpecies is the only one that can DD competently though. Really you guys should use VNC instead of RDP so you can at least monitor each other for cross-training purposes. VNC has quite a bit more latency than RDP. Personally, I've always prefered DameWare.
Arric Rohr The Knights Templar Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:55:00 - [803] It's a shame, this is a great game. However, it feels corrupted, because there is too much of this kind of thing. Whether it actually is corrupted or not is almost immaterial. CCP needs to take a strong action, now, to fix this. There can be no hint of the people running the game being involved in any way with what is going on inside. I think all people who work for CCP should not be allowed to have characters, nor should they have contact about the game with players. Sorry if that seems like an infringement on your personal life, but, you know, too bad. If you want to make a sandbox for you and your friends to play in, go ahead, but don't charge other people money for it. AR Where do I get one of those cool signatures?
DiuxDium Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:56:00 - [804] Originally by: Yuki Nagato Originally by: DiuxDium Simply put, treatment is not preferential if the relationship was simply that between friends, and not of one based upon exploitation of power. Yes except CCP have taken the "relationship" beyond "friends" in the past. This is where I namedrop t20. Stop using diversionary tactics to avoid the point. Is that irony? I'm not sure, because you see, I'm not a smart man. What I do know, is that the MSN issue is a non issue. I think it's a well known fact that BoB (being here for 4 years) have in that time developed deep bonds with the creators, and staff of this game. In no way is that a bad thing I suggest. Yet when this relationship is exploited it is a negative, as we've very well seen. One again though, I'm forced to point out that there has never been a BoB post on these forums indicating that they don't believe such actions should be punished. inb4 1 sentence :iceburn: ------------- The above user should never be taken seriously.
JeevesBond	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:56:00 - [805] Originally by: Dianabolic And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Stop whining and go back to syndicate and come back once you have the SP to take bob on instead of trying to drag their good name through the mud. That is how eve works, get over it. So, unless I'm mistaken, these posts are the closest to an official response we, the Eve community, has recieved. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Is this what I have been paying CCP for? We ask for transparency, accountability and some customer service. The response? 'Get over it.' I'm taking these quotes as offical due to their ties with CCP. That would be unfair under normal circumstances, however CCP staff have chosen to be affiliated with these people, that affiliation implies endorsement in my opinion. Originally by: dianabolic Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? I have never been asked to comment, nor was I aware that bugs were fixed due to your relations with CCP. I'd like to complain now that I am aware though, bitterly. No bug fixed is worth this scandal or the anger and disgust felt by so many honest players. Bugs can be worked around and fixed, the loss of trust caused by this cannot. No matter how much you deny it, or try to spin this scandal, you have ruined this game for a lot of people. Myself included.
Invidious Malinigvious Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:56:00 - [806] Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. Afternoon OrangeSpecies is the only one that can DD competently though. Really you guys should use VNC instead of RDP so you can at least monitor each other for cross-training purposes. any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady.
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:57:00 - [807] Oh, God. Not again, CCP... Please, tell me we donpt have to get through all this again... Whoever is in charge up-there... Start firing the **-heads that are ruining EvE... I hope this will be resolved quickly and efficiently. "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!**" -Culex (SMRPG)
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:57:00 - [808] Edited by: WhitePhantom on 26/05/2007 03:56:41 Originally by: Arric Rohr It's a shame, this is a great game. However, it feels corrupted, because there is too much of this kind of thing. Whether it actually is corrupted or not is almost immaterial. CCP needs to take a strong action, now, to fix this. There can be no hint of the people running the game being involved in any way with what is going on inside. I think all people who work for CCP should not be allowed to have characters, nor should they have contact about the game with players. Sorry if that seems like an infringement on your personal life, but, you know, too bad. If you want to make a sandbox for you and your friends to play in, go ahead, but don't charge other people money for it. AR We don't even know what happen. So how can there be "to much of it" happening? We have one side, a side that could be not telling the truth for all we know, who will do anything to "defeat" the otherside. I think both sides are wrong, mainly the people who spammed the forum
Welfare State GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:59:00 - [809] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. You know I don't even want to know how you know that. Jesus Christ.
Arthur Miller GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:59:00 - [810] Can you tell me why you think having direct contact with CCP employees is alright? Also please explain to me how this contact does not constitute a significant advantage for you and your corporation.
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:59:00 - [811]
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:59:00 - [812] Originally by: WhitePhantom Edited by: WhitePhantom on 26/05/2007 03:56:41 Originally by: Arric Rohr It's a shame, this is a great game. However, it feels corrupted, because there is too much of this kind of thing. Whether it actually is corrupted or not is almost immaterial. CCP needs to take a strong action, now, to fix this. There can be no hint of the people running the game being involved in any way with what is going on inside. I think all people who work for CCP should not be allowed to have characters, nor should they have contact about the game with players. Sorry if that seems like an infringement on your personal life, but, you know, too bad. If you want to make a sandbox for you and your friends to play in, go ahead, but don't charge other people money for it. AR We don't even know what happen. So how can there be "to much of it" happening? We have one side, a side that could be not telling the truth for all we know, who will do anything to "defeat" the otherside. I think both sides are wrong, mainly the people who spammed the forum You've been in this thread for how long? and you don't know what happened? Do you really need links to the Dian posts stating that "Yes we have direct contact with the people who are supposed to be objective, we are cheating, get over it".
SenorApples The Clearwater Society Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:00:00 - [813] Part of fighting a war is thinking like your enemy. For me this isnt too hard as I am living in Former Coalition stations and using mods in my ships that we stripped from the cold corpses of 100 Coalition Wrecks. Goons came to Querious, Goons left Querious with a bloody mouth. Not bad for a dead alliance. After their abysmal showing in this war I had the lowest opinion of GoonFleet. Until Now. I really cant top what Orange Species said but I will add this. Stop whining you 2 year olds. Grow up and be a man. Apples have Many Uses and Many more things that they cannot be used for. An apple is not a Football Flanker, an Apple is not a Fossil Fuel.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:00:00 - [814] Originally by: DiuxDium One again though, I'm forced to point out that there has never been a BoB post on these forums indicating that they don't believe such actions should be punished. You know how people say that it's usually a good idea to read the thread before posting? Yeah, this is one of those times.
Farham AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:00:00 - [815] Quote: Not a damn thing we say can make us look worse than Dianabolic did for you. I have to admit, I was kind of shocked BOB would let him be so candid. He essentially took a small spark and dumped gas refinery on it. Intrepid Crossing Diplomat and All Around Major Idiot
Jodie Amille Sadist Faction	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:00:00 - [816] Originally by: Chronus26 Just one piece of advice for anybody following this drama: Never forget that not everything you read is the truth, personal accounts can be biasd, they can be edited, rearranged, fabricated even to distort the truth to sombodys advantage. We do not have the whole story infront of us, we have only the testimony of one person with his/her own agenda. Just dont pass judgment till you've heard all there is to hear, and try to make up your own mind instead of just hopping on yet another bandwagon. ENOUGH!!! We will not have common sense and level headedness on these forums!! Now onto the bandwagon with you! Originally by: Shadow Elk Originally by: SiJira i love all the people who jump on the band wagon when something like this is announced - obviously this stuff is fake and only someones poor attempts to grief CCP Yep and that is why the forums where offlined and the guys in white coats where brought out. I for one am getting my raincoat for the major whitewashing that has begun. Maybe that was to clean it so the rest of us wouldn't have to read eleventy-billion goon spam-posts? Just a thought.... Originally by: Andreus Ixiris This whole situation is entirely unacceptable. When is Band of Brothers going to be disbanded? They have constantly abused both the rules of the game and the other players who participate in it. They have no respect for dignity, manners or rules - they simply insult, assault and demean other players, both in the game and, more worryingly, in real life (I've heard credible reports of GoonSwarm members getting death threats via email). Band of Brothers should not be. When are you going to get rid of it? But spamming the game forums to the point where they have to be closed to be cleaned is a-ok? Originally by: Kaylana Syi Why would you use Sharkbait fixing a bug to use information to once again try to destroy CCP. The whole BoD thing is old. We all know T20 cheated and it would be business suicide to allow cheating in this game. Band of Brothers have re-entered the community, via low profile on EVE-O and having officials on those on the Team Minmatar to heal that reputation. If you got beef with the game mechanics then join the club. If you can't beat BoB in space then quit the game or turtle up until it changes. Its quite obvious that you don't care for EVE if you continue to disrupt the community and its services. Even if this is found to be an example of cheating you have handled it in a horrid way. QFT /dons tinfoil hat I personally think it's social engineering by the goons to gain favour cause they're getting their bums spanked. If they win, they get all kinds of allies and maybe even pulls away some of BoB's allies. If it fails, no one believes a word CCP says anyways so they're no worse off and still probably got a few paranoid supporters. It's genious to be honest. /tinfoil off Oh and PS: I love this thread(courtesy of some eve player I don't remember posting it some months ago PPS. Everyone that's leaving can you send me a couple of mil and help a new yarrbear afford to replace her ships plz? ------
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:01:00 - [817] Originally by: SenorApples Stop whining you 2 year olds. Grow up and be a man. Bob pet, cheating is ok, just be a man about it.
Ela Deldora	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:01:00 - [818] Originally by: Welfare State Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. You know I don't even want to know how you know that. Jesus Christ. Talk about irony. =D I'm pretty sure normal GMs don't tell you when you're being investigated for account sharing.
manimani Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:03:00 - [819] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. Afternoon OrangeSpecies is the only one that can DD competently though. Really you guys should use VNC instead of RDP so you can at least monitor each other for cross-training purposes. any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. HOLY ****, YOU CAN EVEN READ OUR PETITIONS?!?!?!
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:03:00 - [820] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. Afternoon OrangeSpecies is the only one that can DD competently though. Really you guys should use VNC instead of RDP so you can at least monitor each other for cross-training purposes. any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. Well, Beyond the assumption that the player of orange species is a cyborg with no need to sleep or in fact attend to any other responsibilities in life aside from flying a spaceship around the clock, no, i guess not. And we all know how helpful petitioning is, You know.. in a massive thread that only originated because of the simple fact that petitioning does indeed not work. Oh snap son, Let's see you pick yourself up from that one.
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:04:00 - [821] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. Afternoon OrangeSpecies is the only one that can DD competently though. Really you guys should use VNC instead of RDP so you can at least monitor each other for cross-training purposes. any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. a)We've seen him be online for extremely long periods of time. Even longer than Chowdown (who I figure isn't account sharing since he almost failed out of Uni flying his titan. o7). b)Oddly enough, after that was noticed CCP let everybody know that account sharing isn't actually illegal (just don't whine if your stuff gets ganked). So, clams down, son.
Micore	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:04:00 - [822] Hi everyone, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. I'v been playing for only few months so I didn't get a chance to witness previous offenses by developers or how those were resolved. But lets set aside for a second the guessing game of what is going to happen and how it is going to play out. I think everyone who is screaming on the forums "how we can trust CCP" or "CCP favors bob" or "it happens again and again" and so on and so forth, should slow down for a min and think about it logically. As much as CCP loves the the game as its creation, which is I am sure we all agree is amazing, equally important is the fact thats its a huge business, a big fun money making machine. I doubt that CCP as a whole prefers making ISK instead of $. So really we are talking few developers and not CCP as a whole. Having developers mess around with the game is bad for business and I am sure CCP will always do everything they can to eliminate such risks, get rid of bad apples, even if the the whole apple tree is rotten, they will take care of it to save the company. So I as a vast majority of gamers will hang and this will not ruin the experience to warrant quiting. As to their Internal Affairs department I think CCP is smart enough to hire ppl that are not playing the game and even probably prohibited from playing. And I really really hope that once instigation is complete not only developers but also players / corps that benefited from cheating should be punished severely so next time nobody is tempted to take advantage of eager developers' help. And, yes I am way out on the limb here, but if its a huge alliance that constantly encourages overworked programmers and db admins to cheat, hell, blow up a moon or two in their region, wipe them out, let them start from scratch!!!! Ok if anyone actually read all this, I am sorry for a long post! Thanks.
Laephis Brinn Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:04:00 - [823] Originally by: KSUDruid Edited by: KSUDruid on 26/05/2007 03:44:40 Goodbye Goons.. It's been great knowing ya. Now you've got your excuse to leave, because it's impossible you could have gotten beat fair and square. POTBS is that way, go zerg another game and claim you're uber, no one here cares anymore. There haven't been Goons in the game for months now. They were kicked out of 0.0 and not allowed to come back. Don't you remember?
Dreadnub Tin Foil Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:05:00 - [824] If goons put half as much effort into pvp as they did spamming drivel on the forums they might actually accomplish something.
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:06:00 - [825] Originally by: Dreadnub If goons put half as much effort into pvp as they did spamming drivel on the forums they might actually accomplish something. If BoB stopped cheating maybe we'd shut up about it.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:06:00 - [826] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: manimani Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. Afternoon OrangeSpecies is the only one that can DD competently though. Really you guys should use VNC instead of RDP so you can at least monitor each other for cross-training purposes. any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. HOLY ****, YOU CAN EVEN READ OUR PETITIONS?!?!?! About the answer I expected from your ilk. Guess denying it isn't even worth the effort anymore?
InnerDrive	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:06:00 - [827] Edited by: InnerDrive on 26/05/2007 04:10:52 Major health issues and this crap going on in game have resulted in me putting eve asside for the time being, i came to check up on some the things goin on when i say the news topic about this. Im still of the same oppinion as i was before and i know hellmar will strongly disagree but commen sense dictates otherwise. How can u justifie developers playing a mmorpg thats so much about information and isk? This question u have to ask urselfs. what kinda inside information can devs use to become super ultra rich in the game. And think about the impact of say a dev being a director in a corp organising construction and trade while at the same time working at ccp developing new stuff into the game. Woud it be completely unpluasable to think that when ccp personel plays eve, they play it like anyone else, to get rich, to see their corp gain power in the universe? And woudent they use their knowledge in their heads to reach those goals? (small example: @ccp office, average day at work: we are putting those and those complexes and stations there in that region that drop those and those items @live servers: WAIT at work we just put those uber expensive items in those new complexes in that region over there so we will get our characters that are directors to order my alliance to conquer that specific region DING) The sources of dev players knowledge: can they seperate the knowledge they gained from developing the game and working at ccp from their knowledge from just playing? And is it at all defendable that they are getting involved in pulling the strings in alliances that have eve global impact?
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:07:00 - [828] Originally by: Dreadnub If goons put half as much effort into pvp as they did spamming drivel on the forums they might actually accomplish something. Completely on topic.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:07:00 - [829] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: manimani Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. Afternoon OrangeSpecies is the only one that can DD competently though. Really you guys should use VNC instead of RDP so you can at least monitor each other for cross-training purposes. any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. HOLY ****, YOU CAN EVEN READ OUR PETITIONS?!?!?! About the answer I expected from your ilk. Does it shock you to see an answer which actually has context in the thread you're posting in which isn't an abject admission of guilt?
Welfare State GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:08:00 - [830] Edited by: Welfare State on 26/05/2007 04:07:15 Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious About the answer I expected from your ilk. My real concern is do you actually think this is normal procedure, or are you aware that it isn't normal for GMs to provide this sort of information to players? I mean, if you do think it's normal then it's like you guys play a different game. Which is really funny if you think about it.
Ela Deldora	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:08:00 - [831] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious About the answer I expected from your ilk. I know you are but what am I?!?!
Sinfull 1	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:09:00 - [832] this is qll i will say http://digg.com/pc_games/EVE_Creators_CCP_Under_Fire_Again_for_Alleged_Corruption_Open_Letter_Made#c6873627 Full story
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:09:00 - [833] What a lot of noise over what is essentially - until CCP get back to us with the results of their investigation - absolutely nothing. /Ben How to fix Eve
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:10:00 - [834] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: manimani Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. Afternoon OrangeSpecies is the only one that can DD competently though. Really you guys should use VNC instead of RDP so you can at least monitor each other for cross-training purposes. any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. HOLY ****, YOU CAN EVEN READ OUR PETITIONS?!?!?! About the answer I expected from your ilk. Good work falling for the most obvious of obvious trolls.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:10:00 - [835] Originally by: Ben Derindar What a lot of noise over what is essentially - until CCP get back to us with the results of their investigation - absolutely nothing. /Ben Being in Axiom you would be an authority on "absolutely nothing". I'll take your word for it.
manimani Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:10:00 - [836] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: manimani Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. Afternoon OrangeSpecies is the only one that can DD competently though. Really you guys should use VNC instead of RDP so you can at least monitor each other for cross-training purposes. any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. HOLY ***, YOU CAN EVEN READ OUR PETITIONS?!?!?! About the answer I expected from your ilk. Oh **** i've been quoted saying something damning, quick act all uppity*
Draygo Korvan Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:11:00 - [837] Originally by: Ben Derindar What a lot of noise over what is essentially - until CCP get back to us with the results of their investigation - absolutely nothing. /Ben But BoB is doing such a good job of adding more fuel to the already fusion powered hot problem.
SenorApples The Clearwater Society Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:11:00 - [838] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: SenorApples Stop whining you 2 year olds. Grow up and be a man. Bob pet, cheating is ok, just be a man about it. Dont make me laugh, at least i have the stones to post with my main. Also Some of these allegations might have happened, and a Giant Taco might have built the Empire States Building Apples have Many Uses and Many more things that they cannot be used for. An apple is not a Football Flanker, an Apple is not a Fossil Fuel.
Invidious Malinigvious Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:12:00 - [839] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: manimani Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. Afternoon OrangeSpecies is the only one that can DD competently though. Really you guys should use VNC instead of RDP so you can at least monitor each other for cross-training purposes. any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. HOLY ****, YOU CAN EVEN READ OUR PETITIONS?!?!?! About the answer I expected from your ilk. Guess denying it isn't even worth the effort anymore? lol, its the same guy on ts, he isnt dumb enough to share his login. It shows the depth of your paranoia quite well though.
BleuJoJo	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:12:00 - [840] Originally by: Crimson Ghostly When can we expect a reply on this CCP? Yes please! We, The EVE Players With No Real Life, demand that the devs respond to these accusations immediately! We also demand that the devs never sleep again, ever, and in fact never even leave CCP's HQ, so that they can respond to future accusations in a more reasonable amount of time. More than FOUR hours have passed already, after all!
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:12:00 - [841] Originally by: SenorApples Also Some of these allegations might have happened, and a Giant Taco might have built the Empire States Building So BoB do not in fact keep in regular contact with devs via out of game means?
Penea	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:12:00 - [842] Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. An ISD member accidently uses an indestructible ship (as allegedly by a certain, unnamed party) to disrupt gameplay and they are terminated as per the request of that certain party; meanwhile, the same certain party purposefully use (for all effective purposes) an indestructible ship to disrupt gameplay and it is catagorically not called an exploit and nothing is done (although the majority of the EVE community disagrees on CCP's ruling on POS bowling.) The irony is lost on me, but the reality is not; it's not how you play the game, but rather, who you know in the game. I salute you Goons, the true heroes of EVE.
Nathaniel Hull Caldari 808 Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:13:00 - [843] The fact is the devs should not for reasons of conflict of intrest play the game as characters in player corporations and alliances. They can adaquetly do their job without such involvement. More direct contact can be made to gain insight without playing a charcter aiding or taking sides. Frankly CCP needs to start acting like a real company instead of a gaggle of buddies out for drinks in Rekyavik and London.
Aramark Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:14:00 - [844] Originally by: KSUDruid Edited by: KSUDruid on 26/05/2007 03:44:40 Goodbye Goons.. It's been great knowing ya. Now you've got your excuse to leave, because it's impossible you could have gotten beat fair and square. POTBS is that way, go zerg another game and claim you're uber, no one here cares anymore. what is this "fair and square" you speak of? --------------------------------------------------- "Roses are red, Violets are blue, I'm a developer, are you one too?"
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:20:00 - [845] unless most of you are alts 99% of people in here arent affected by any of this crap - wich is still find to be a false story spammed by sad kids ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:21:00 - [846] Originally by: SenorApples Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: SenorApples Also Some of these allegations might have happened, and a Giant Taco might have built the Empire States Building So BoB do not in fact keep in regular contact with devs via out of game means? Are you off your meds? Learn to read 'might' is not a synonm for is or proof or fact. O wait Goonswarm Cant Read On the pro-side, at least they can spell.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:21:00 - [847] Originally by: SenorApples Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: SenorApples Also Some of these allegations might have happened, and a Giant Taco might have built the Empire States Building So BoB do not in fact keep in regular contact with devs via out of game means? Are you off your meds? Learn to read 'might' is not a synonm for is or proof or fact. No but BoB's chief diplomatic saying they do comes pretty damn close.
PriestWithKnives	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:22:00 - [848] Wow it's like a mini coad in here. Alright points of note without all the posturing. Three different stories but the one that's gotten the most attention thanks to bob posts would be: ISD guy gets close to BoB dreads and takes pictures for his news report, BoB gets annoyed with him there and tells him to leave the system he's too close if people wanted news reports they can hear it from the combatants, no one knows if this is true or not as far as how close he was to the dreds. The ISD tries to make a joke after being talked to rudely by orange species who then gets on MSN and gets GM Admiral something into the ISD IRC within a minute who then tells the ISD person to go and that he is embarrassing CCP by telling Orange Species, "no" when Orange Species demands that he leave the area. It's the ISD and as far as I know they're allowed to be at 270+ fleet engagements to report on them. After a few hours he's also summarily banned from all of his accounts by this same GM. Later on in this thread Dianabolic lets everyone know that BoB higher ups talk to GMs regularly and they're friends and do chat on MSN. This has caused fallout pretty much everywhere as there are clear conflict of interests presented by this such as what happened to the ISD guy. BoB has mostly been saying it's fine for them to be friends with GMs and that nothing is wrong with that at all. Quite a few people have been bringing up points against it when it leads to instant action taken in EVE and completely circumventing the petition system which also helps to make a log of events to help the Internal affairs department of CCP actually do it's job, read t20 and fallout from there.
Akelorian Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:22:00 - [849] All I will say is if this turns into another covered up scandal like with the t2 bpo's I am done with eve. No point playing a game where the dev's favour one side and crap on the other. Then once something is uncovered they go right ahead, close the forums, delete the posts, and put out some garbage reply to the issue's. Once was acceptable, twice is just a shame. I expect my post to be deleted like last time, and a lovely little e-mail telling me that voicing my opinion isn't allowed and that next time I will be banned from posting on the forums. Thank you for that mods :)
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:22:00 - [850] Originally by: SenorApples Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: SenorApples Also Some of these allegations might have happened, and a Giant Taco might have built the Empire States Building So BoB do not in fact keep in regular contact with devs via out of game means? Are you off your meds? Learn to read 'might' is not a synonm for is or proof or fact. Did you miss BoB Chief Diplomat Dianabolic's posts?
BuyN Sell	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:23:00 - [851] Originally by: SenorApples Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: SenorApples Also Some of these allegations might have happened, and a Giant Taco might have built the Empire States Building So BoB do not in fact keep in regular contact with devs via out of game means? Are you off your meds? Learn to read 'might' is not a synonm for is or proof or fact. O wait Goonswarm Cant Read Why don't you answer the question?
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:24:00 - [852] Originally by: Akelorian All I will say is if this turns into another covered up scandal like with the t2 bpo's I am done with eve. No point playing a game where the dev's favour one side and crap on the other. Then once something is uncovered they go right ahead, close the forums, delete the posts, and put out some garbage reply to the issue's. Once was acceptable, twice is just a shame. I expect my post to be deleted like last time, and a lovely little e-mail telling me that voicing my opinion isn't allowed and that next time I will be banned from posting on the forums. Thank you for that mods :) No, you'll probably get away with this one since CCP has diverted all discussion to this info forum that, really, no one reads anyway.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:24:00 - [853] Originally by: SiJira unless most of you are alts 99% of people in here arent affected by any of this crap - wich is still find to be a false story spammed by sad kids Perception is important. If you know that in the game you play somenone have a unfair advantage, even if you will never interact with him, would you still play it? PS. they said the same thing about the t20 thingy about the "false story", with ccp, you never know (sadly)...
Metal Face	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:24:00 - [854] Originally by: JeevesBond Originally by: Dianabolic And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Stop whining and go back to syndicate and come back once you have the SP to take bob on instead of trying to drag their good name through the mud. That is how eve works, get over it. So, unless I'm mistaken, these posts are the closest to an official response we, the Eve community, has recieved. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Is this what I have been paying CCP for? We ask for transparency, accountability and some customer service. The response? 'Get over it.' I'm taking these quotes as offical due to their ties with CCP. That would be unfair under normal circumstances, however CCP staff have chosen to be affiliated with these people, that affiliation implies endorsement in my opinion. Originally by: dianabolic Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? I have never been asked to comment, nor was I aware that bugs were fixed due to your relations with CCP. I'd like to complain now that I am aware though, bitterly. No bug fixed is worth this scandal or the anger and disgust felt by so many honest players. Bugs can be worked around and fixed, the loss of trust caused by this cannot. No matter how much you deny it, or try to spin this scandal, you have ruined this game for a lot of people. Myself included. YES
Filthy Pierre Gallente Laughing Fox Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:26:00 - [855] Dear CCP, these problems with allegation of company interference in the game, etc. are starting to become a little unsettling. One thing that's definitely contributing to the problem is CCP's mishandling of the situation and seeming lack of "openess" in responses, remedial actions and keeping the customer base informed. You guys could be absolutely innocent of all charges this time around but the nature of your responses are such that they make you seem to be trying to shovel the kitty litter over the mess and hoping that nobody notices. I worked in software technical support and sales support for many years and I have to admit I cringe when I see some of the ways you handle customer dissatisfaction - it only takes one negative experience with a company for a customer to develop an extremely bad opinion of said company. A minute's lack of thought can make an enemy out of a customer and it can take months, if not years, to repair the damage done. If all that CCP wants to do is to polish the company and game to maximize the size of the buyout offer when it's made, that's one thing - but if CCP really does care about the game and the customer you need to take some drastic action in order to repair the damage your reputation has suffered thus far and to convince the customer base that you really do care about them. No, this is not about 'OMGnerfBoD!" or anything like that, this is about putting tools and systems in place that can help restore a company's professional reputation with its customer base and give that customer base the reassurance that it needs that they do, in fact, matter to CCP and that the customer's satisfaction and game experience is the most important thing to CCP bar none! Look, please, get some professional help in setting up a functional customer relations department. Add real time handling of problems, not just petitions and email, add a window into what you're doing for the customer that he/she can use to both be informed and to be reassured that they're not being ignored. Developer blogs were a step in that direction but developers, with all the goodwill in the world, are NOT the best thing to have as your sole interface with the customer. You need to acquire dedicated professionals who will go to bat for the customer against those developers if necessary and who understand that ultimately it's the customer who keeps the electric bill paid and pays your salary that keeps you able to pay your rent or mortgage. C'mon guys, time to be more than just a developer's company with a great game - time to grow some more and become a software company with a great game and terrific customer support! I love the game, that's why I'm still playing it even though I don't fully trust it. As a customer support professional I have to wonder what the hell CCP is thinking and hope that they'll at least buy a few guides to customer support or something...anything to start them getting clued in. My rule - Customer is number one - always - he pays my rent! Make that yours too and you won't go far wrong. Regards, FP
Davlin Lotze STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:26:00 - [856] Originally by: Orange Species i don't think anyone else needs to post here tbh, just let goons/goon alts go on a rampage, they make themselves look more like idiots than any of us could make them look :) No wonder you normally have a perm-forum ban :) *awaits replies from goons of wargh off-topic wargh, deflection,wargh but but but but but" Quit whilst your not ahead. From the "dial a Dev\GM man" himself. Compelling /sarcasm off
HoTTACP Gallente SOTI Inc. FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:29:00 - [857] This entire story is disheartening. I for one want to hear a response that speaks to the relatively intelligent nature of the EVE community. Also, it's just in poor taste to refrain from communicating the intentions or grounds for your actions to the people whom those actions affect! If this is true, I believe someone should have to answer.. Oh well, while I hope that this isn't true, I don't know that I'll ever be able to think about paying my subscription as happily and quickly as before. To self: Please don't let this be true!
Teadrinker	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:29:00 - [858] I don't know exactly what happened, but this is ridiculous. The solution is obvious: you don't let CCP developers play, except on the test server. The only CCP employees who play on the real server are GMs who work under strict supervision from a big room in CCP's office, and who have no other role than to deal with player complaints. Do this or die. It's that simple.
squidgee GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:29:00 - [859] Edited by: squidgee on 26/05/2007 04:28:18 Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad I'm not bob, I just made a typo besidies, you need to stfu until your alliance can actually hold your space Bob has just tried to be friendly to the people who made this game nad you're trying to destroy it. if you really liked eve you'd shut up and get in touch with eve before whining on the forums. Your alliance is already ruining hte game with spies and lag exploits and crapping up 0.0 with your noobs who don't deserve to be there, you don't need to do any more to hurt the game. All of you goonies need to stop posting and hyurting eve. I'm pretty tired of this tactic. We're not hurting EVE. You are. BoB hurts EVE every time they cheat and collude with CCP. They hurt the game by getting an unfair advantage and making players like me want to quit. If enough people get disgusted with this game because of your actions you won't have an old boys club to run to, because EVE won't exist anymore. The fact is that a dev was in a GS corp for some reason. That reason was not a customer service request. There was no bugged POS. The fact is that BoB is in touch with Devs and GMs. The fact is that BoB gets preferential treatment and favors from those CCP employees. Spin it however you want to, but the fact is that BoB is cheating. It needs to stopped.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:30:00 - [860] Well, this is a game breaking scandal as far as I am concerned. Unless the serious issues brought up are not dealt with in a transparent manner that fully explores Developer/Player involvement and permanently severs the tie between Dev's and their alleged friends, this game is not worth my time or money. I understand Dev's have in game friends etc, but ALL contact between a Dev and a non-dev that relates to gameplay advantages (rather than something like bug-reporting), MUST follow official lines of communications that ALL players have equal access to. I can't just call up a Developer and have a quick 'chat'. If I can't, neither should anyone else. Remember: I pay for the game, too. Not knowing a Dev personally should not matter AT ALL vis a vis gameplay advantages. Originally by: Ductoris In any case I fully support the need for large diameter projectiles for Rodent disposal. Those little buggers are crafty.
Krakcheese	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:31:00 - [861] This is the 3rd offense by a CCP employee in the last few months that I've heard about. And at no time have I felt CCP is doing the right thing in any of the cases. I'm voting with my money. Bye.
Arric Rohr The Knights Templar Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:32:00 - [862] Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate Originally by: WhitePhantom Edited by: WhitePhantom on 26/05/2007 03:56:41 Originally by: Arric Rohr It's a shame, this is a great game. However, it feels corrupted, because there is too much of this kind of thing. Whether it actually is corrupted or not is almost immaterial. CCP needs to take a strong action, now, to fix this. There can be no hint of the people running the game being involved in any way with what is going on inside. I think all people who work for CCP should not be allowed to have characters, nor should they have contact about the game with players. Sorry if that seems like an infringement on your personal life, but, you know, too bad. If you want to make a sandbox for you and your friends to play in, go ahead, but don't charge other people money for it. AR We don't even know what happen. So how can there be "to much of it" happening? We have one side, a side that could be not telling the truth for all we know, who will do anything to "defeat" the otherside. I think both sides are wrong, mainly the people who spammed the forum You've been in this thread for how long? and you don't know what happened? Do you really need links to the Dian posts stating that "Yes we have direct contact with the people who are supposed to be objective, we are cheating, get over it". Yeah. Clearly something happened, and that's the point. All this goon/BoB namecalling and finger pointing is clouding a simple issue. I pay $15 or so a month to play a game. One of the things I pay for is knowing that the rules of the game apply to everyone the same. Twice now, that I know of, CCP has admitted that they don't. There are unsubstantiated claims that it happens more than that, but two is still two many. AR Where do I get one of those cool signatures?
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:32:00 - [863] Lets make a quick summary of the last 6 months events uncovered and proven in eve and BoB's and CCP's reactions about them: 1) It is uncovered that a director of RKK (a member corp of BoB) was actually a Dev and the other directors as well as the CEO were aware of it. - BoB strongly denied this at the forums and tried to discredit the person who disclosed the information; - Sirmolle reveals real life information about the said person in the forums and make a real life threat against him; - After the community showed outrage T20 ended confessed it was true. - CCP banns the guy who disclosed the information and leaves Sirmolle, who croke the EULA, alone; 2) It comes to light that BoB received illegal T2 bpos - BoB denied and called the people who where outraged by it "Tinfoil Bandwagers" trying to disregard the allegation with a "ad hominem" fallacy; - The community does not buy it and T20 posts an oppen letter confessing the spawn and the previous allegation; - CCP does nothing about the matter - BoB changes the line from "no we never received anything." to "It does not make any difference" Now it is shown that they still have unfair advantages in the form of CCP contacts and information that shouldn't be available to them. A kind of information that could be the motive they blew ASCN and D2 Titans. But that is just speculation on my part. But it is undenyable that BoB's relations with CCP employees brought to light are inadequate. There is no such a thing as recurring coincidences. Your name can't appear multiple times by accident as the lottery winner or as a falsary if you are not one. To all those that are [n]not[/n] cheater or exploiters and are members or allies of BoB. The fact that you unconditionally defend those that are, to the point of lying, denying the obvious and trying to discredit their accusers, makes you pathetic. Have some dignity and kick them out of your lives. Or admit at least that you like to win so much that cheating and knowinly benefiting from cheater advantages is ok to you. As long as you can beat your chest and say, "Look how ubber I am" To CCP, the way you are dealing with this is sickening. Just do as everybody else in this world who runs a serious company and take your employees from situations where they have conflicts of interest. You want they playing the game, nice, place them in their own corp in Jovian space, or doing missions in Empire. It is impossible to prevent people entwined with factions in a highly competitive game from cheating to their benefit. Especially when the most effective and utterly untraceable cheating in this game is just to reveal ingame information. I trully hope one of 2 things happen. Either you start to act as adults and a serious company, instead of behaving as a bunch of kids playing a game, or you fail as company and bankrupt. This way you will serve at least as an example to future developers of games.
Elmo Zumwalt	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:33:00 - [864] This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Period. CCP, be more professional.
G Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:35:00 - [865] All these BoB posts defending CCP assure me the allegations have no merit. Even though they admitted to having IM-relations with the devs and GMs, BoB flies with eHonor and would never abuse those privledges.
Zchiavo	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:35:00 - [866] Originally by: squidgee Edited by: squidgee on 26/05/2007 04:28:18 Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad I'm not bob, I just made a typo besidies, you need to stfu until your alliance can actually hold your space Bob has just tried to be friendly to the people who made this game nad you're trying to destroy it. if you really liked eve you'd shut up and get in touch with eve before whining on the forums. Your alliance is already ruining hte game with spies and lag exploits and crapping up 0.0 with your noobs who don't deserve to be there, you don't need to do any more to hurt the game. All of you goonies need to stop posting and hyurting eve. I'm pretty tired of this tactic. We're not hurting EVE. You are. BoB hurts EVE every time they cheat and collude with CCP. They hurt the game by getting an unfair advantage and making players like me want to quit. If enough people get disgusted with this game because of your actions you won't have an old boys club to run to, because EVE won't exist anymore. The fact is that a dev was in a GS corp for some reason. That reason was not a customer service request. There was no bugged POS. The fact is that BoB is in touch with Devs and GMs. The fact is that BoB gets preferential treatment and favors from those CCP employees. Spin it however you want to, but the fact is that BoB is cheating. It needs to stopped. No see, the Dev was just doing his job. He was getting ready to play a game of 'Hot and cold' with a few BoB scouts as to the location of some POSes. You see, the dev's job is to ensure that the people who have played this game for FOUR WHOLE YEARS don't get bored, and morning shift Orange Species loves games of hot and cold.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:36:00 - [867] Edited by: Karlemgne on 26/05/2007 04:39:59 Wow. I mean really, wow. Tbh, this looks really bad, guys. I'm not going to make any grandiouse statements like, "I'm leaving EvE," but I will say that you'd never ever see this kind of thing on any other major commercial MMO. -K Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Gjs312 Caldari Black Lance NBSI Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:37:00 - [868] I can help but find it hilarously entertaining that this managed to get turned into a bob vs coalition flamewar. Developer cheating and game rigging is bad for everybody people; not just for ds1, not just for goonswarm, not just for "the coalition". Everyone. CCP: you guys need to get on this stat and prove to your paying customer base that they are not just peons that the game creators can beat in a rigged game, and that your own internal investigation is more then just damage control when something like this leaks to the public. You will be losing a lot more subscribers then just goonswarm over this. I've heard lord of the rings online is pretty good...
Diomedes Godshill Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:38:00 - [869] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. The account sharing of Orange Species is a lot like gravity (lol analogy). Everyone knows what's going on but there's no mathematical proof.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:38:00 - [870] Sigh... guess its time to bring back my signature which mysteriously disappeared awhile ago... -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
John Iliad	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:38:00 - [871] Edited by: John Iliad on 26/05/2007 04:38:57 I say, and please dont jump me \o/, get rid of the Band of Brothers Alliance all together. Why do such a thing? Rather simple. How many problems have been created and closely related to BoB? How many times have Developers and other forms of CCP Staff been caught doing something wrong with a corp tied to BoB? Not fare to the ones who didnt do anything, right? Wrong. They are still part of the Alliance, meaning they know what is happening within it. You cant get rid of all the problems with EvE and CCP, but you can damn sure get rid of one.
Kathtrine	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:38:00 - [872] Sorry to say this but I am a new player with arround 2 months in.. So I have a to make up my mind on whether or not my $30 us dollars spent so far are worth it for this game. CCP clean house and kick all devs out of BoB before you loose the game and your livelyhoods. Its not the scandal itself but the fact that it arose in the first place. Count the number of accounts you have lost becuase of scandals like these and the number of customers you are looseing and ask yourselves is it worth the cost? Hmm ... Your lucky with me... I will give one more month maybe but I get the feeling I will be disappointed in this company not becuase of the game you made but the way you handled the complaints. Captolamia Gaming for 20+ years.
nickky01 The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:38:00 - [873] Originally by: Inturist Originally by: Yuki Nagato Originally by: Inturist Didnt thought something better ? Lets try it one more time sugar If you really believe we pay $10 in hard (real) cash for our frigates, you should probably get your head checked and stop reading BoB propaganda. Oh yeah, and go outside. Should i turn on my Sony VEgas again and strat editing more movies with VERY NICE conversations with Goonies in local , and some private ones ? i could do the same thing with what i've seen some bob say in local, whats your point
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:41:00 - [874] CCP are you ***** STUPID !!???!! Are you trying to lose customurs on purpose is this your new way to reduce lag on the servers ... if so I am sure it is going to work very well. WTF were you thinking !!!!!! pity I have already been here for a year cos otherwise I would quite *** cheating basterds yes I AM ED OPFF Originally by:** Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
Robert Denby	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:41:00 - [875] Originally by: Rebellion Not wanting to be confrontational, there is a way to achieve change in EVE without harassing CCP. Right, you just fire up your MAN client.... Oh, wait, that doesn't work for the rest of us. Originally by: Rebellion If you just treated EVE as a game that CCP made, and you pay to play, instead of thinking that because you pay you are entitled to demand that CCP create a game according to your specifications, you would have a little less goon rage at being unable to understand why people who have been playing longer play better. Right, like you guys have had NO effect on changes in the game, your friendships haven't led to stuff you'd like to see in the game become reality, and you have no sway whatsoever. The only "specification" people are asking for here is a level playing field. Let me state this plainly: *You openly admitted that you don't have to use the petition system that the rest of us do.* You keep telling us that you're very intelligent, so think about that last sentence and if you still can't see why people are ****ed, then you're deeply in denial.
Maj Woodcock Minmatar United Space Aillance USA	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:42:00 - [876] No need to disband BoB. Just make all CCP connected players not be able to join corps or alliances and take their "tools" away. Said it before CCP does not understand ethics. Put the booze down and buy a clue. This isn't your playground anymore. It is a business, run it like one. PROMISES MADE > PROMISES KEPT *SO SAY WE ALL*
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:42:00 - [877] CCP, control your employees... And yes: Employees, that`s all they are. If you pay them, they are your personal slaves, with no rights nor priviledges inside the game. Fix this now. Seriously, I`m guessing the community won`t stand another "Nothing is going on, please move along..." kind response now... On the other hand... CCP`s people in charge can solve this, if we give them time. "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!" -Culex (SMRPG)
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:42:00 - [878] Originally by: Poolpy Originally by: SiJira unless most of you are alts 99% of people in here arent affected by any of this crap - wich is still find to be a false story spammed by sad kids Perception is important. If you know that in the game you play somenone have a unfair advantage, even if you will never interact with him, would you still play it? PS. they said the same thing about the t20 thingy about the "false story", with ccp, you never know (sadly)... its false and the spam of the forums was proof of this - the lie that a single post was deleted is just part of the whole myriad of lies and the "L" that was written was fully manufactured out of pure hate and malice ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
GrimHunter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:46:00 - [879] Originally by: Rikeka CCP, control your employees... And yes: Employees, that`s all they are. If you pay them, they are your personal slaves, with no rights nor privileges inside the game. Fix this now. Seriously, I`m guessing the community won`t stand another "Nothing is going on, please move along..." kind response now... This. CCP, seriously what are you doing? Do you have no control over your employees?
ExplodingBears	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:46:00 - [880] Ugh, this is disgusting. It's almost unbearable to watch those that try to reveal and make public a scandal such as this become disenfranchised on the sole basis of background. If evidence such as the preceding exists and has been confirmed, it should be investigated, regardless of who brought it to light or who calls for its publicity. I don't understand how players can just ignore it when something like this happens, be they directly affected or not. I'll leave the judgment of morality of CCP itself to others, but I honestly expected better from the playerbase. Can you really let something like this blow over, attributing discontent to those uppity goons, always ready to raise a ruckus? I would expect this from a member of BoB or CCP, but from other unaffiliated parties? Can't you all just step back and look at this objectively? The evidence has never been clearer and the problem has never been more obvious. There's really no reason to let this blow over.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:47:00 - [881] This bears repeating: ================================= CCP has fired staff before for in game misconduct. Yep, you read that right. And if the situation warrents it, I've no doubt they will again. But if CCP has any balls, they'll tell the howling lynch mob to go to hell. They will probably do so politely, but it will be the same thing. You'll have to do some digging, but the incident was all over the forums for a short while. If there is a firing warrented, I have no doubt it will happen. But I dont trust howling lynch mobs.
Zenst Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:48:00 - [882] Originally by: Bu Jinkan Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Dianabolic I've never seen anyone around me do anything wrong, Midgarth. I thought that CCP handled the whole T20 affair absolutely horribly - I think CCP handle alot of stuff horribly, but I've never seen my own alliance mates cheat. So what was it again that You were sworn to absolute secrecy about? Never seen any form of cheating... of course not I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you. Who leaked the Serpentis GM event to you? Why are you afraid of answering? Why don't you even acknowledge it? LOL, and this would be the one were they ganged up with alot of people hostile to BOB, all organised in advance, bring ships and aid to there attack force upon us. Coz if thats the one your on about, then it was you. Ignorant/aragant hostiles usualy give there game away and crying sour milk about it by chucking mud is a lamentable side-effect we see alot. Facts are I've not seen one bit of proof. I'm not aware of anybody who's a GM, nor do I care to know who is who in real life as remarkably enough; And this is the real gotcha. It is....A game. Though why people keep on role playing bitter tissue wax is frankly, well - there problem. Now if we could only had SLASHDOT style forums, then the more inteligent could see the facts from the bogless wonders. PS we are also not responsible for global arming - I'd just like to get that in now, before we waste more peoples time and valuable braincells
Arl GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:48:00 - [883] I guess when BoB couldn't communicate with the devs using corp chat anymore they decided to use msn. Is there a tech II msn version planned?
Haurik Tagelston	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:49:00 - [884] Originally by: Sergeant Spot This bears repeating: ================================= CCP has fired staff before for in game misconduct. Yep, you read that right. And if the situation warrents it, I've no doubt they will again. But if CCP has any balls, they'll tell the howling lynch mob to go to hell. They will probably do so politely, but it will be the same thing. You'll have to do some digging, but the incident was all over the forums for a short while. If there is a firing warrented, I have no doubt it will happen. But I dont trust howling lynch mobs.
Karia Icehawk	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:49:00 - [885] Tempted, sooo tempted to post a reply to all the aggrieved people... and then this guy gets there first: Originally by: Glengrant Hm, somebody with internal access needs to use tactics like making himself a member, with the high risk of being noticed? How does that make sense? If I were a cheating dev I'd just do a quick SQL query on the DB, get the data without anybody ever noticing it. And why is what CCP says always fishy, while what others say is assumed to be the whole truth? Also the idea that CCP actively helps BoB is plain silly. It's not in their interest to have one dominating alliance - much less the one they are already accused of being in bed with. I'm sure a couple of abuses did happen - but I trust that CCP isn't nearly stupid enough to destroy their own business by allowing their employees to cheat all the time. Take off your tinfoiil hats and don't always assume the worst. You might get a more sensible picture of things. just my 2 cents ...and my 2 cents. Karia
John Iliad	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:49:00 - [886] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 26/05/2007 04:45:14 Originally by: John Iliad Edited by: John Iliad on 26/05/2007 04:38:57 I say, and please dont jump me \o/, get rid of the Band of Brothers Alliance all together. AS I said before that won't fix anything. The players will still be there as will their dev friends. The structural problems will still exist and the only people who would benefit is those fighting against BoB and even then it's a really, really ****ty way to "win". It will also only punish those who took advantage of a situation 99% of Eve players would take advantage of (as well as scores of players who no doubt had nothing to do with it) rather than punishing those who abused their powers. What's needed is a cleaning of house and ironclad rules against devs and GMs being involved with players, corporations and alliances in the game other than on a strictly professional level. Sure, the players and devs will still be there, but it wont be one of the largest alliances in EvE holding the 'Hey, I have Dev Friends!' card. Getting rid of BoB will be a rather nice start to EvE and CCP's problem, and they can surely follow up with a weeding out of the corrupt CCP Staff. There are many serious problems that have sprung up with CCP, and it will eventualy destroy EvE if they cannot get a handle on it.
SenorApples The Clearwater Society Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:50:00 - [887] Originally by: BuyN Sell Originally by: SenorApples Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: SenorApples Also Some of these allegations might have happened, and a Giant Taco might have built the Empire States Building So BoB do not in fact keep in regular contact with devs via out of game means? Are you off your meds? Learn to read 'might' is not a synonm for is or proof or fact. O wait Goonswarm Cant Read Why don't you answer the question? I did answer the question. Its not my fault if you cant comprehend it. I already answered it, from my perspective, the operative word is 'might'. IE an unconfirmed potentiality, just like its possible a Cactus built the Pyramids, but that that possibility doesnt mean a cactus actual did. Apples have Many Uses and Many more things that they cannot be used for. An apple is not a Football Flanker, an Apple is not a Fossil Fuel.
BuyN Sell	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:50:00 - [888] Originally by: Sergeant Spot This bears repeating: ================================= CCP has fired staff before for in game misconduct. Yep, you read that right. And if the situation warrents it, I've no doubt they will again. But if CCP has any balls, they'll tell the howling lynch mob to go to hell. They will probably do so politely, but it will be the same thing. You'll have to do some digging, but the incident was all over the forums for a short while. If there is a firing warrented, I have no doubt it will happen. But I dont trust howling lynch mobs. Be happy. You'll find out about it on MSN before we do.
BuyN Sell	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:51:00 - [889] Originally by: SenorApples Originally by: BuyN Sell Originally by: SenorApples Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: SenorApples Also Some of these allegations might have happened, and a Giant Taco might have built the Empire States Building So BoB do not in fact keep in regular contact with devs via out of game means? Are you off your meds? Learn to read 'might' is not a synonm for is or proof or fact. O wait Goonswarm Cant Read Why don't you answer the question? I did answer the question. Its not my fault if you cant comprehend it. I already answered it, from my perspective, the operative word is 'might'. IE an unconfirmed potentiality, just like its possible a Cactus built the Pyramids, but that that possibility doesnt mean a cactus actual did. You didn't answer the question, you just asked another one, reiterated your original non answer and threw an ad hominem in for good measure.
Tony Unrau Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:54:00 - [890] Originally by: Teadrinker I don't know exactly what happened, but this is ridiculous. The solution is obvious: you don't let CCP developers play, except on the test server. The only CCP employees who play on the real server are GMs who work under strict supervision from a big room in CCP's office, and who have no other role than to deal with player complaints. Do this or die. It's that simple. Couldn't agree more! CCP Employee's should NOT be allowed to play the game. As sad as it is before these scandals I would have no problem with them playing. The few screwed over the many as in many cases in life and therefore privileges to play should be taken away. Or if not that extreme, possibly taken away to only those who were involved. Any with a clean record should still be allowed to participate. Update: Fix expected "Within the next 1 1/2 to 2 years"
Robert Denby	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:02:00 - [891] Edited by: Robert Denby on 26/05/2007 05:03:30 I've got $20 that says one of the first angry reactions at CCP will be: "WHY did he say he was on MSN?" It won't be our reaction, which is "why does he have that access in the first place," it will be "why did he let the world know that they can contact us on MSN." THAT right there is, in a nutshell, what CCP doesn't understand. That's the disconnect. And judging by the constant Dianbolic and Rebellion replies, they just don't get it either.
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:03:00 - [892] Originally by: Aries Acheron I for one, think CCP isn't like a certain few parties on this thread. They won't do such stupid, irrational things to give one or another side an advantage at the risk of undermining their whole company. Either you're new here or you don't have a very good memory. It already has been done before.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:04:00 - [893] Edited by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on 26/05/2007 05:02:41 Originally by: John Iliad You seem to forget that there are several occasions with BoB and their 'friends' from the higher ups doing something that gave them a very unfair advantage.. that only happened once and has already been taken care of soI dont see what your complaning about
Gee Lok	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:04:00 - [894] I believe this whole affair can be explained by psychology. In particular, something called Attribution Theory. Here is a quote from the Wikipedia article: Quote: People often make self serving attributions. So, if something good happens to themselves or someone they like, they tend to see it as a result of their own, stable dispositions. ("I managed the test because I'm so intelligent"), and when bad things happen to themselves or people they like they are more likely to make external unstable attributions ("I did badly on the test because it was so hard, and I had a headache"). Goonfleet is all but defeated. The alliance is broke, unable to fulfil its financial obligations. It is incapable of controlling space or winning fleet battles. Just this week goonfleet abandoned Omist handing 5 stations to their enemies. In the minds of the goons this enormous failure cannot be due to any external factors. It can not be their fault. It must be an external factor. Someone MUST be cheating. In their desperation they are furiously lashing out to find the cause of their problems. Because their problems are so large, the cause must be equally large. This whole issue is a deamon conjured in the minds of the goons. The reality is that CCP is pretty much ethical in its behaviour. The devs and GMs are fair in their treatment of players.
Laius	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:04:00 - [895] Originally by: Tony Unrau Originally by: Teadrinker I don't know exactly what happened, but this is ridiculous. The solution is obvious: you don't let CCP developers play, except on the test server. The only CCP employees who play on the real server are GMs who work under strict supervision from a big room in CCP's office, and who have no other role than to deal with player complaints. Do this or die. It's that simple. Couldn't agree more! CCP Employee's should NOT be allowed to play the game. As sad as it is before these scandals I would have no problem with them playing. The few screwed over the many as in many cases in life and therefore privileges to play should be taken away. Or if not that extreme, possibly taken away to only those who were involved. Any with a clean record should still be allowed to participate. Signed
FatHed Eye of the Abyss	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:05:00 - [896] Quote: Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVEÖ is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVEÖ. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited. CCP, breaking it's own EULA. ISD members act on the behalf of CCP, and CCP forgot to exclude themselves from the rules they made. Quote: You shall defend, indemnify and hold harmless CCP and its affiliates, licensors and suppliers, and their respective employees, contractors, officers and directors, from any and all claims, loss, damages and demands, including reasonable attorneys' fees, arising out of: (i) your use or misuse of the Software; (ii) your access to the System; (iii) any activities conducted through your Account (whether by you or another person); and (iv) your playing of the Game. I guess most of your customers are now violating the EULA, since we aren't indemnifying, and hopefully, not holding you harmless. There is a solution, but based on the circumstantial evidence, you won't like it. Release the logs of the chats, all of them, ISD, MSN, in game. Explain what the "bug" was with the POS. Explain how, with help from the logs, that BoB was able to order an ISD member out of a system. Explain how this helps the community. I don't expect any of that to happen, since I have lost faith in your ability to be honest. Sadly, since you have partnered with Whitewolf, this really deters me from playing a potential werewolf or vampire game. I ignored the issue the first time, hoping it was an isolated case that could be potentially solved with your internal audits, but I doubt you're even doing those. And, does it really matter? Someone higher up on the org chart can trump the internal investigation, really means that someone has a useless job. I hope that all of us decide to not let you slide again. If all of your attempts are "for the good of the game", I'd implore you to reconsider, since the game will suffer if you have a mass quitting. In short, post the logs, or just shut up, don't placate us with more "we're looking into it". I highly doubt your staff will take the time to read all of these comments, and at this point, since I'm not a BoB member, I fully expect to be ignored.
Hubris Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:05:00 - [897] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? I would like to take a minute to respond to this little quote here. Nothing against you personally Dianabolic but there are people in this game that have done way more for the game they love than you or anyone in bob. But do they have direct line of communication with CCP or would they use it, how about a no on that one. Some people have higher moral standards they live by. Since i don't want to speak for anyone else i will use myself as an example. Not trying to toot my own horn, because there are people i know that have way outdone my efforts. People that have spent hundreds and thousands of hours in the help channel for example. I was going to make a list but i think this post would get truncated if i did. I just don't like to speak for others in case i misrepresent things. SO don't mind all the I's below. Anyway, I have been playing since week 2 of eve. I helped put together about 10% of the las vegas gathering for eve. Did my best in sharing the recordings and broadcasting the event discussions to the rest of the world. There were others that were the brainchilds of it that did way more I was just a worker bee in that instance. The Vegas event was outstanding. But it was very disheartening to watch it be torn apart later by other players with connections to CCP out of hate for an event that was better than they did. Much back stabbage occurred after that by a certain other group that was way out of bounds. I put together and paid for the broadcast bandwidth for a radio show (wasn't the best but i know i had fun) that lasted nearly a year. Not to mention developing and paying for bandwidth for an internet tv version of that show, only to scrap it because of a few CCP staff that couldn't get over themselves. That was thousands of US dollars i spent for a game that i enjoyed and wanted to share with others. Now the big question after all that typing is: Should I get special treatment for doing any of it. I would have to say a big "insert four letter word here" NO! Nothing i did should ever allow me to get any sort of special treatment. I had access to contact one person in the community relations department due to interviewing him. Shortly after that i deleted his phone# out of our studio phone logs. I would never want anyone to think i would use it for any gain. Did you catch that last part. Even the thought that others would THINK i had that access would sicken me. Some of you may hate me and not put any thought into what i wrote due to me being a founding member of SN1GG. OR any connection i have or don't have with a certain "social engineer with a blog". I guess it gets pretty bad when a big bad pirate griefer has higher morals than others in this game............. Oh ya sorry to the rest of SN1GG for being a forum ****** for once in a few years. -
goze GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:06:00 - [898] Originally by: Sergeant Spot This bears repeating: ================================= CCP has fired staff before for in game misconduct. Yep, you read that right. And if the situation warrents it, I've no doubt they will again. But if CCP has any balls, they'll tell the howling lynch mob to go to hell. They will probably do so politely, but it will be the same thing. You'll have to do some digging, but the incident was all over the forums for a short while. If there is a firing warrented, I have no doubt it will happen. But I dont trust howling lynch mobs. You need to re-read the allegations - Raekhan wasn't fired for game misconduct, he was fired at BoB's explicit request.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:07:00 - [899] Originally by: Aries Acheron This is a witch hunt. Well so far we've established that witches exist, they're on MSN Messenger and they may or may have not sacrificed at least one goat and possibly a small chicken.
ExplodingBears	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:07:00 - [900] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad YOU GOONIES JUST DONT GET IT Having friends in ccp isn't cheating, it's just being normal and social. It doesn't hurt the game, and so what if bob does haev friends in ccp? It doesn't matter. Your so caled cheating is pretty dumb imo, since apparently you goonies can't even remember when you petitioned ccp to fix things for you. And the bpo thing was fixed alrady so I dont even see why you are ocmplaining about that really. The only thing that hurts the game is you goonies and your blobbing . You are just mad bob has more sp and has been playign the game for longer than you. You can't beat them, so you complain. Shut up about bob cheating already, and try to beat them in game instead. Of course you'll fail because you only have t1 frigs and have to rely on your masters in ra for dreads. It's this kind of post that I find hardest to stomach. Instead of addressing the issue, you try to discredit the sources of the information, and you are using the same goddamn 'goon blob sp complain t1 frig' bull**** that exists in every page of this thread. This is not about goons, this is about CCP. I'd be more likely to accept these tactics if the truth weren't so obvious and undeniable, but just spewing the same discrediting buzz words won't work. Please, just once I ask you to rack your brain for a valid argument, or at least a reply that addresses the issue rather than diverting attention away from it.
Elle Owurl	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:08:00 - [901] Dear CCP, Your staff needs to stay well above reproach at all times. The incidents as reported -- even if only containing part of the truth -- show suspicious, questionable, and dishonest behaviour. Show some transparency, end any behaviour that could even be misconstrued as improper, and then you might have our trust back.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:08:00 - [902] It's clear from the constant smacktalk here that Band of Brothers know they've been caught out, and are now just getting as much abuse and discord out of it as they can.
Dumuzi	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:08:00 - [903] maybe CCP Sharkbait was just a bit stoned and forgot to tell the "customer" that he's coming to fix the cable.
Ryunosuke Kusanagi	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:10:00 - [904] a second question arises. Is BoB's e-p33n so small, and they are so scared of goonswarm, that they have to actually HAVE TO HAVE inside help to beat them? :)
GrimHunter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:10:00 - [905] Edited by: GrimHunter on 26/05/2007 05:09:23 Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad YOU GOONIES JUST DONT GET IT Having friends in ccp isn't cheating, it's just being normal and social. It doesn't hurt the game, and so what if bob does haev friends in ccp? It doesn't matter. Your so caled cheating is pretty dumb imo, since apparently you goonies can't even remember when you petitioned ccp to fix things for you. And the bpo thing was fixed alrady so I dont even see why you are ocmplaining about that really. The only thing that hurts the game is you goonies and your blobbing . You are just mad bob has more sp and has been playign the game for longer than you. You can't beat them, so you complain. Shut up about bob cheating already, and try to beat them in game instead. Of course you'll fail because you only have t1 frigs and have to rely on your masters in ra for dreads. No, apparently you don't get it. Its called a conflict of interest and it is blatantly clear here. Perhaps you would like to remove that blindfold over your eyes?
MacromediaDocumentFormat	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:10:00 - [906] ITT People sidestep the issues and use ad-hominm attacks to silence the truth of developer corruption in the game. Also, BoB finally admits that in return for getting to pre-test (have prior experence with more like it) patches and new releases, they get help from the devs in-game. So... to balance an unfair advantange (knowing about and getting to use items and features before everyone else) you think that's balanced by, what? Oh! of course! your getting another unfair advantage! how charming! And of course if anyone else disagrees with you, then they dont have a right to play your game because they're just noobs right? Makes perfect sense to me. Personally I dont really see the need for this thread anymore. BoB has admitted to having an unfair advantage in the game, as well as shown their prowness for being unsufferable arrogant unspeakables, and CCP has yet again shown their inept inability to find even an economically sensible outcome to this game. Good job. Make sure BoB owns the whole map. Because you know, they'll have won. And whenever one side wins, it's game over. And when it's game over, People stop playing. And when people stop playing, you stop getting paid. So yes, actually either outcome from this is wonderful. Either this is openly and fairly resolved, or BoB gets to increase their E-peen by being the biggest baddest kids on the block in an internet game that's populated by... well... them. Well them and their alts anyway. Good game.
Garrett Smith ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:10:00 - [907] I have officially decided to cancel my subscription. Developer misconduct and CCP doing nothing shows that this whole thing is rigged. If this post is deleted then I know even further that the company doesn't deserve my money. Originally by: El Yatta they shouldnt have gotten involved in supercaps, because on the whole they are very dull, except for 2-3 people in the alliance who get to go "wheee, i cant be scrambled, pwn pwn".
Iiva	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:10:00 - [908] This only proves one thing: Goons are sensationalist drama queens and attention *****s. At least /b/tards have some self-respect.
Zagum Darkfin Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:12:00 - [909] With the amount of the tin foil hats being worn in this thread, I think we are going blind from all that shinny stuff. I have never seen a bunch of Drama Queens in one thread. What's the new game plan now, If you cant win in the game, ruin peoples reputation by liable comments and unfound accusations? Proof or STFU!
MacromediaDocumentFormat	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:12:00 - [910] Oh also, to BoB. Next time you're in court, and the opposing side is best buddies with the judge. Just remember, it's not a conflict of interest, or even unfair, because after all, they spent all that time to get to know the judge before you did.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:12:00 - [911] Originally by: Gee Lok I believe this whole affair can be explained by psychology. In particular, something called Attribution Theory. Likewise your post could be explained by Confirmation Bias. Here is a quote from the Wikipedia article: Quote: In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias is a tendency to search for or interpret new information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions and avoid information and interpretations which contradict prior beliefs. It is a type of cognitive bias and represents an error of inductive inference, or as a form of selection bias toward confirmation of the hypothesis under study or disconfirmation of an alternative hypothesis. Of course thats all conjecture on both of our parts... -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:13:00 - [912] im still loving everyone on the bandwagon ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Eryx Terayen Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:13:00 - [913] It all comes down to one thing... everyone in this game pays the same subscription fee. Everyone is entitled to the same level of service, whether that be good or bad, and whether they are BoB, Goon, RA, D2 or just some scordite mining empire newbie. Systems were designed and put in place for contacting GMs, moderators, and developers. When players are given the ability to bypass these systems and communicate directly with those in power, that gives them a huge advantage. Nobody deserves a VIP pass to EVE. Not Goons, not BoB, nobody. That's all I have to say on the "dev friendship" garbage. I, personally, don't care if RP events are rigged. What good does one mothership do an alliance like BoB? Not a whole lot, they can build them themselves, and that Hel sure as heck did not help LV when they won it. I'd prefer if physical prizes weren't given out for rigged events, but honestly I can't see it happening on a scale grand enough to upset any balances. The Darkstar 1 issue is the biggest, I think. In the best case scenario, the GM was careless, ignorant and communication was terrible. Even if we weren't in the midst of the whole "Band of Developers" garbage, joining someone's corporation and giving yourself director roles is not something that should be done without communicating to the CEO at all. That action alone should bring into question GM Sharkbait's judgment. I'm not saying anyone should be fired over it, of course. Everyone makes mistakes, including GMs and developers. Just that caution should be used in the future, and policies be implemented/made known to the GM team. It's REALLY hard to have any kind of civil and non-partisan discussion now. Remember that there's really only two sides to things these days: Goons & Co(I say this because, I'll admit, we usually bring it up), and BoB & Co. The fact that both parties are engaged in heated conflict in-game makes everything both sides say look partisan, but it's important that both players and CCP staff try to view these events with as neutral an outlook as possible.
BuyN Sell	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:14:00 - [914] Originally by: Zagum Darkfin With the amount of the tin foil hats being worn in this thread, I think we are going blind from all that shinny stuff. I have never seen a bunch of Drama Queens in one thread. What's the new game plan now, If you cant win in the game, ruin peoples reputation by liable comments and unfound accusations? Proof or STFU! Haha I thought a goon wrote this to BoB at first.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:15:00 - [915] Originally by: Gee Lok In the minds of the goons this enormous failure cannot be due to any external factors. It can not be their fault. It must be an external factor. Someone MUST be cheating. No, we're pretty good at admitting that pretty much everything that goes wrong is our fault. If there's one thing that Goonfleet prides itself it's making stupid mistakes on a truly colossal scale. That's why this issue has anything whatsoever to do with us other than the fact that we were the ones who got public discussion of it going. We want CCP to sort out their broken procedures as regards customer service and the relationships their staff have with players in the game. That is all. If you're not convinced by the evidence, even that offered by BoB directors, then feel free to ignore the problem but don't try to take the easy way out by pretending this is our fault.
Endarri al'Malik	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:16:00 - [916] All back and forth between Goonswarm Members and BoB aside, the simple fact remains that allowing Devs and GMs to run alt characters in Player-controlled alliances constitutes a conflict of interest. This isn't hard to see, and it certainly isn't impossible to stop. The consequences of allowing such conflicts to continue are evident in this thread: customer dissatisfaction and cancellations, the community flaming each other on the forums, and, most importantly, the community demanding answers and solutions. What is equally appalling is that it seems that the CCP leadership are unable to recognize the conflict, and rather than simply stopping their employees from running characters in the game, they actually try to find a way to justify their doing so (and with their supporters within the EVE community eagerly cheering them on). Yes, EVE is a great game, and it is clearly tons of fun to play (or I wouldn't be here), but part of working for CCP should be that your out-of-work play should be confined to the Test Server or somewhere other than Tranquility; if you are an employee of CCP, then the cost of earning a paycheck should be that your access to the player-controlled sections of EVE are limited. There are literally thousands of companies in the world which have anti-nepotism policies written into their corporate framework in order to 'nip in the bud' such conflicts of interests before they arise. These companies understand that were their directorate allowed to hire/work with/grant contracts or favors to family or friends, the damage to both their reputations and their corporations would be devastating. Even the idea that they would possess the power to engage in such practices - should they wish to - would be damaging. If such a relationship exists between CCP and BoB - or any EVE corp or alliance, a simple, commonsense review of the ethics of the situation would determine that any such relationship cease. No one is saying that CCP devs shouldn't have friends or 'are robots'; but CCP staff developing relationships with the customer base should be discouraged. As with any other business, it's best to keep your work and your private life separate. As the manager of a large company myself, I can say this with some confidence. I, as many others in the community, eagerly await CCP's reply to the issues addressed by the 'open letter', and hope that some honest, and, if the allegations prove to be true, would expect to see serious consequences applied to the offenders, and some serious self-reflection to occur by the CCP executives. Here's hoping we all find out the truth of the matter - and soon; the cost of CCP silence on the matter could soon be measured by the decline of sales. Endarri al'Malik Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys Alliance
Alesia Nanasawa	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:17:00 - [917] Edited by: Alesia Nanasawa on 26/05/2007 05:16:41
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:17:00 - [918] Again...? Goodbye Eve
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:17:00 - [919] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Orange Species Quit whilst your not ahead. You're a much better troll than the OrangeSpecies that works the morning shift. He's a better POS bowler though. Afternoon OrangeSpecies is the only one that can DD competently though. Really you guys should use VNC instead of RDP so you can at least monitor each other for cross-training purposes. any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. How do you know?
Johnny Rook Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:18:00 - [920] clearly this is CCP's latest plan to tackle the server lag caused by overpopulation. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:18:00 - [921] Originally by: ExplodingBears It's this kind of post that I find hardest to stomach. Instead of addressing the issue, you try to discredit the sources of the information, and you are using the same goddamn 'goon blob sp complain t1 frig' bull**** that exists in every page of this thread. This is not about goons, this is about CCP. I'd be more likely to accept these tactics if the truth weren't so obvious and undeniable, but just spewing the same discrediting buzz words won't work. Please, just once I ask you to rack your brain for a valid argument, or at least a reply that addresses the issue rather than diverting attention away from it. Its you goonies not addressing the issue, not me. What did CCP do? Talk to people on MSN? Well then you beter lock up the entire internet b/c almost everyone has MSN.
Dapanman1 Amarr Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:20:00 - [922] HEY GUYS LOOK NOTHING HAS HAPPENED YET LETS KEEP TALKING ABOUT NOTHING HAPPENING YET god damnit... im going to bed, hope eve is stll here when i wake up
FatHed Eye of the Abyss	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:20:00 - [923] Dear BoB members, please stay out of the conversation. You are accused, and even without solid evidence, your comments are condemning you. If you don't understand what I mean, that's just further evidence that you should keep your mouth shut.
Raznarok Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:21:00 - [924] Not cool people. CCP give you a great game and you pay them back by stirring ** like this up. You have no idea the amount of time your wasting or people paying for their subscriptions. I reckon they should ban all the ** stirriers tbh.
Niton Stormrider HCD	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:21:00 - [925] Heh. Makes me glad I'm in a 16 man corp in empire. Buncha newbies chomping rocks and pew pewing in lowsec. We get to play the game without getting all butthurt about flying dutchman BPOs and tinfoil hats. IT'S A GAME FOLKS, JUST PLAY THE ******* THING!
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:21:00 - [926] Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. haha Dian, you made the whole thing even worse -------------- My name is oozoo and my sig is yellow!
Raznarok Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:22:00 - [927] Originally by: FatHed Dear BoB members, please stay out of the conversation. You are accused, and even without solid evidence, your comments are condemning you. If you don't understand what I mean, that's just further evidence that you should keep your mouth shut. And you have no evidence yourself. Maybe its you that should keep quiet. kthx.
Skrypt Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:22:00 - [928] "Hi. I'm a goonie. I'm getting wtfpwned. In turn, I'm going to whine on the forums about whatever I can because that's the only place we can win. omg w00t. gooniefleet 4 life!" Too bad CCP values their monthly income too much to ban each one of them just for the sake of having done it. <3 "I know. I know you can fight. But it's our wits that make us men." ~ Malcolm Wallace (Braveheart)
Shadow Steel	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:23:00 - [929] I'd say the most amusing, and perhaps most useful, turn of events would be widespread in-game military action against BoB. If carried out on a large enough scale, BoB will either be crushed or their CCP 'friends' will save them. Both events would be quite useful and entertaining.
TinyPirate	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:23:00 - [930] Originally by: JeevesBond Originally by: Dianabolic And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Stop whining and go back to syndicate and come back once you have the SP to take bob on instead of trying to drag their good name through the mud. That is how eve works, get over it. So, unless I'm mistaken, these posts are the closest to an official response we, the Eve community, has recieved. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Is this what I have been paying CCP for? We ask for transparency, accountability and some customer service. The response? 'Get over it.' I'm taking these quotes as offical due to their ties with CCP. That would be unfair under normal circumstances, however CCP staff have chosen to be affiliated with these people, that affiliation implies endorsement in my opinion. Originally by: dianabolic Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? I have never been asked to comment, nor was I aware that bugs were fixed due to your relations with CCP. I'd like to complain now that I am aware though, bitterly. No bug fixed is worth this scandal or the anger and disgust felt by so many honest players. Bugs can be worked around and fixed, the loss of trust caused by this cannot. No matter how much you deny it, or try to spin this scandal, you have ruined this game for a lot of people. Myself included. I wanted to bring this post up again, absolutely brilliant. I'd love to see a full summary of the various BOB 'admissions' so far in this thread, someone, go to it! I like the recent one where the BOB guy mentions how many times a BOB member has been petitioned.
Tahmee Bhakeur	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:24:00 - [931] Good job CCP. Nothing like scandal to wake up a community. GM/DEV players have over time done a number of things that have really ****ed people off. The last BPO scandal ended with "They are gone and we took back crap bpo's". Another GM/DEV was removed from their corp, lost their job with CCP, but still kept their character... like allowing the embezzler to stay with the company, but as a janitor. Dump them. Firing the GM/DEV's is appropriate, but allowing them to keep their characters? Delete them. Track down all their assets, and those given to anyone, and delete them -any ship, bpo, isk... anything. Simply erase all evidence of them from the game. Sadly, these people will also have multiple characters/accounts, so delete all you can find. It would almost be better if CCP eliminated all T2 BPO's (RolePlay angle: Data hacking by some sinister group), compensate owners some isk or invention resources and force invention. GM/DEV's should not be cheating. Even the hint of it is enough to topple consumer confidence. It's really fobbing off EVE that so far, all misconduct seems centered around a small group. The community needs CCP to restore the public's trust. So act swiftly, harshly, and post the killmails.
Brunswick2 eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:24:00 - [932] Edited by: Brunswick2 on 26/05/2007 05:24:18 I'm disappointed by pretty much everyone atm. CCP, BoB, Goonies, and everyone else have all handled this very poorly.
Novina Agrari	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:25:00 - [933] Originally by: Endarri al'Malik All back and forth between Goonswarm Members and BoB aside, the simple fact remains that allowing Devs and GMs to run alt characters in Player-controlled alliances constitutes a conflict of interest. This isn't hard to see, and it certainly isn't impossible to stop. The consequences of allowing such conflicts to continue are evident in this thread: customer dissatisfaction and cancellations, the community flaming each other on the forums, and, most importantly, the community demanding answers and solutions. Bingo! Correct. Give this man some officer loot. Shouldn't be hard - just hold another IC event. Har har har! C'mon, CCP. Tell us again how valuable it is for employees to play the game, explain to us how it is vitally important that employee characters remain unknown to the players - and how, at the same time, it's natural and above suspicion that said characters are known openly by the upper echelon of what is largely considered CCP's pet alliance. You guys are ruining your own game. And poor BoB! They've accomplished a lot, and it keeps getting stained by this kind of thing. How long is it before 'Bobbing' is MMO slang for 'cheating at a multiplayer game through host/op connections'?
Foopadoo	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:25:00 - [934] It's not a "witch hunt" if the witch admits to witchery
Laephis Brinn Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:26:00 - [935] Originally by: ExplodingBears Good god, can you not see you are fighting a a battle that's already over? It's been admitted that there is a direct line of communication between BoB and CCP. Not only that, it has been clearly admitted that the correspondance is nothing close to neutral. If you read nothing else, read this. Twice.
Dumuzi	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:27:00 - [936] A lot of this coming from people not know how the internal ccp stuff works. To some it may be normal that players and devs chat on msn if they are friends, but to some it will look like an advantage waiting to happen. Both sides are right. At some point you have to trust CCP to have honest employees, but do people trust CCP to do that? Not at this point. To me CCP sounds like a fairly laid back company...they're able to chat on MSN. Why not and take that away? If they need to have internal comms, create and internal IRC channel or something. Just a thought. There should not be a way for a player to contact a dev faster then other players, that's cheating as far as I can tell. I work for a web hosting company and it would be very messed up if customers could contact us by means other then phones or tickets. There needs to be accountability from employees and their actions should be traced. Just like noting accounts when customers call in or open tickets, it is a common customer service practice and should be enforced. You gotta have your community's trust. It's very important. Ads don't sell games as much as word of mouth and it costs a lot more to sign up a new customer then to keep one.
Necro EvilZombie North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:27:00 - [937] this thread rocks
G Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:28:00 - [938] Originally by: Raznarok Not cool people. CCP give you a great game and you pay them back by stirring ** like this up. You have no idea the amount of time your wasting or people paying for their subscriptions. I reckon they should ban all the ** stirriers tbh. That's right, ban those evil whistleblowers. We can't have them ruining our entertainment with nasty things like truth.
FatHed Eye of the Abyss	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:28:00 - [939] Quote: And you have no evidence yourself. Maybe its you that should keep quiet. kthx. And you have no evidence that nothing happened, perhaps everyone should shut up. I'd agree if CCP would have some "balls", as the BoB players like to put it, and post the chat logs.
Froting	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:28:00 - [940] I can't wait for the offical response be 'okay, OKAY, we slapped the offenders wrist! are you happy now?!'
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:29:00 - [941] Originally by: Raznarok Not cool people. CCP give you a great game and you pay them back by stirring ** like this up. You have no idea the amount of time your wasting or people paying for their subscriptions. I reckon they should ban all the ** stirriers tbh. Aside from your hilarious call for people to get banned this post, much like the Axiom alliance, makes no sense.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:29:00 - [942] Originally by: Skrypt Too bad CCP values their monthly income too much to ban each one of them just for the sake of having done it. This is the real coruption tbqh. Goonies get away with ddosing eve because ccp wants their money but bob can't even takl to their friends on msn.
ExplodingBears	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:29:00 - [943] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Originally by: ExplodingBears It's this kind of post that I find hardest to stomach. Instead of addressing the issue, you try to discredit the sources of the information, and you are using the same goddamn 'goon blob sp complain t1 frig' bull** that exists in every page of this thread. This is not about goons, this is about CCP. I'd be more likely to accept these tactics if the truth weren't so obvious and undeniable, but just spewing the same discrediting buzz words won't work. Please, just once I ask you to rack your brain for a valid argument, or at least a reply that addresses the issue rather than diverting attention away from it. Its you goonies not addressing the issue, not me. What did CCP do? Talk to people on MSN? Well then you beter lock up the entire internet b/c almost everyone has MSN. Formal Presentation of the Issue of the Relationship Between CCP and BoB** 1. CCP and members of the BoB alliance share a correspondence that is not nearly neutral and has been admitted as such. 2. The communication between BoB and CCP has directly resulted in the furthering of BoB causes. 3. CCP has made a concerted effort to cover up these happenings. I would ask that you please respond to these points in order to hold an intelligent and legitimate discussion.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:31:00 - [944] Originally by: Skrypt "Hi. I'm a goonie. I'm getting wtfpwned. In turn, I'm going to whine on the forums about whatever I can because that's the only place we can win. omg w00t. gooniefleet 4 life!" Too bad CCP values their monthly income too much to ban each one of them just for the sake of having done it. <3 If they valued their income so much they wouldn't be chatting with you on IM's or gifting you t2 bpo's. I guess if you can't refute the claim you awesome chaps have to stoop to trying clever insults. I can assure you this was neither clever, nor insulting.
Shadow Steel	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:31:00 - [945] Originally by: ExplodingBears Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Originally by: ExplodingBears It's this kind of post that I find hardest to stomach. Instead of addressing the issue, you try to discredit the sources of the information, and you are using the same goddamn 'goon blob sp complain t1 frig' bull** that exists in every page of this thread. This is not about goons, this is about CCP. I'd be more likely to accept these tactics if the truth weren't so obvious and undeniable, but just spewing the same discrediting buzz words won't work. Please, just once I ask you to rack your brain for a valid argument, or at least a reply that addresses the issue rather than diverting attention away from it. Its you goonies not addressing the issue, not me. What did CCP do? Talk to people on MSN? Well then you beter lock up the entire internet b/c almost everyone has MSN. Formal Presentation of the Issue of the Relationship Between CCP and BoB** 1. CCP and members of the BoB alliance share a correspondence that is not nearly neutral and has been admitted as such. 2. The communication between BoB and CCP has directly resulted in the furthering of BoB causes. 3. CCP has made a concerted effort to cover up these happenings. I would ask that you please respond to these points in order to hold an intelligent and legitimate discussion. Simple solution: Attack BoB-- I'd say the most amusing, and perhaps most useful, turn of events would be widespread in-game military action against BoB. If carried out on a large enough scale, BoB will either be crushed or their CCP 'friends' will save them. Both events would be quite useful and entertaining.
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:31:00 - [946] Originally by: Skrypt "Hi. I'm a goonie. I'm getting wtfpwned. In turn, I'm going to whine on the forums about whatever I can because that's the only place we can win. omg w00t. gooniefleet 4 life!" Too bad CCP values their monthly income too much to ban each one of them just for the sake of having done it. <3 your ignorance is epic. I get the impression to be allowed to join bob you gotta be a high-skilled douchebag in the first place who isnt able to use his own mind and just replies the drivel from their CEOs. -------------- My name is oozoo and my sig is yellow!
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:33:00 - [947] Originally by: Shadow Steel Simple solution: Attack BoB While it might accomplish something... the real problem is on the other end of MSN. So long as CCP employees are willing to play favoritism the issue will remain, be it with BoB or a different group. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Jessica Sartuenski	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:34:00 - [948] Originally by: Orange Species i don't think anyone else needs to post here tbh, just let goons/goon alts go on a rampage, they make themselves look more like idiots than any of us could make them look :) No wonder you normally have a perm-forum ban :) awaits replies from goons of wargh off-topic wargh, deflection,wargh but but but but but" Quit whilst your not ahead. Just fyi, you're the worst POS bowlers I've ever seen. Actually, I'll change that to 'on-par with chowdown'. It's not that hard to hit at least one of 30 ospreys out of a shield, and hell, you even managed to bounce a carrier _into_ the shield. Anyway, slightly more on-topic, Molle is probably going to be pretty ***ed with Diana and Rebel when he wakes up / reads this thread. :\ Way to make your own alliance look bad.
Froting	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:37:00 - [949] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Originally by: Skrypt Too bad CCP values their monthly income too much to ban each one of them just for the sake of having done it. This is the real coruption tbqh. Goonies get away with ddosing eve because ccp wants their money but bob can't even takl to their friends on msn. no u cause rly BoDDosing is all you do to the nodes and then PoS spam tbqh
Factor Benz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:37:00 - [950] Edited by: Factor Benz on 26/05/2007 05:36:24 Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Originally by: Skrypt Too bad CCP values their monthly income too much to ban each one of them just for the sake of having done it. This is the real coruption tbqh. Goonies get away with ddosing eve because ccp wants their money but bob can't even takl to their friends on msn. We can't help it if there's a lot of us and we feel compelled to post on the matter. I'd hardly call it a ddos. BoB can talk to their friends all they want. They just shouldn't be able to use back channel communications to developers to accomplish things in a fashion every other subscriber to the game cannot. The writing's on the wall in this thread and if you choose not to read it that's your problem. I think it's pretty apparent what's happened here to most. Perhaps large corporations shouldn't be allowed to post. That would fix the problem....
Xazier Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:38:00 - [951] All I know is it's all bull** Bob cheated, the Devs allowed it and thats all there is too it. Really it doesn't bother me because I know in my heart from now on anytime BoB does something you never know if it was by "legal" means or by cheating so they'll always be cheaters period. So good Job CCP, bob whoever you ruined the game for the rest of us that play it right. On a lighter note come on guys lets go play Pirates of the Burning Sea maybe that company won't ** us over! Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
MightyGuy	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:39:00 - [952] Originally by: Raznarok Not cool people. CCP give you a great game and you pay them back by stirring ** like this up. You have no idea the amount of time your wasting or people paying for their subscriptions. I reckon they should ban all the stirriers tbh. Wow you are a complete fool. Can you not see how many people are **ed about this issue. If they ban all the people who are "stirring this up" only BoB will be left you fool. It doesnt really matter whether they ban us or not, because I am voting with my wallet. Subscription cancelled, good riddance, you have proved yourself to not care YET AGAIN CCP. Have fun on the empty servers BoB, oh wait... they will be shut down due to lack of funds unless CCP gets their act together. I bet this post will be moderated... yet again will prove that I cant trust ISD or CCP.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:39:00 - [953] Originally by: Raznarok Edited by: Raznarok on 26/05/2007 05:36:41 Originally by: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Originally by: Raznarok Not cool people. CCP give you a great game and you pay them back by stirring ** like this up. You have no idea the amount of time your wasting or people paying for their subscriptions. I reckon they should ban all the ** stirriers tbh. Aside from your hilarious call for people to get banned this post, much like the Axiom alliance, makes no sense. Like yourself not posting with your main. Wimp. No need to get snitty. I can't help it if your alliance is irrelevant.
Rellana	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:40:00 - [954] If BOb can summon up CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar whenever they feel like it in local chat,this is abuse of the worse kind.I understand that we only have one side of the story at the moment so how about explaining why BOB got a ISD member banned at there call?
God Chaser	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:40:00 - [955] Edited by: God Chaser on 26/05/2007 05:41:06 Edited by: God Chaser on 26/05/2007 05:40:21 I have tried to get some friends to join eve but they said the forums they have read shows that the game is fixed. And so a waste of hard earned money.Its sad that eve is destroying itsself and doing nothing about it but covering it up.Must be nice when your paying customers are of no concern.... guess the reference is true we play BOB Online...
Dop Sutol	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:41:00 - [956] Originally by: Raznarok Not cool people. CCP give you a great game and you pay them back by stirring ** like this up. You have no idea the amount of time your wasting or people paying for their subscriptions. I reckon they should ban all the ** stirriers tbh. Because it really worked in SWG, UO, etc... You must be new to MMORPGs. Bans will make everything worse, you DON'T want to create martyrs.
Shadow Steel	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:41:00 - [957] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Shadow Steel Simple solution: Attack BoB While it might accomplish something... the real problem is on the other end of MSN. So long as CCP employees are willing to play favoritism the issue will remain, be it with BoB or a different group. Yes, he issue of CCP corruption would still remain, however it would force the issue on BoB's end, and perhaps certain members of CCP. Working under the assumption that the entirity of CCP is not corrupt, and that they do want to make money still, it can be concluded that such an allergic community reaction would cause CCP to conduct a bit of house-cleaning. Also, with BoB dissolved, it would take away a fair bit of in-game power the players and their CCP friends can wield. And, if CCP attempts to intervene to save BoB, it would only cause further pain for them.
Tempus Fugitive	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:41:00 - [958] I am not an alt, this is my main character. I am a neutral. Also, I admit I stopped reading this thread after just five pages. Forgive me if this has all been said, just voicing my opinion for the record. I don't know anything about BoB or Goons or who did what, for the most part I don't even care. What concerns me is CCPs response of silence. It brings back awful memories of my own petitions that were deleted without explanation because, maybe they were in the wrong catagory or something. I wouldn't know because no one bothered to tell me. I can also recall many times going to the forums hoping for some explanation on why the game was not functioning properly, to find only screaming hordes wanting some kind of news, and no news to be found. My advice to CCP is to learn to communicate to its customers. Now, to everyone that wants heads to roll and see it broadcast live, it won't happen. While Eve is a game to you and I, CCP is a business. Businesses have real world legal responsibilities, like not firing people based on popular opinion and not disclosing employee discipline. Last thing, Eve is a market game, above all else. It's why we all love it and play it. If you really want to hurt someone, you hit them in the wallet. We all know this. I'm just saying that it's okay to voice your opinion, but in the end your voice is worth exactly US$14.95 per month.
ExplodingBears	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:41:00 - [959] Damn uppity goons, always starting ***. Why can't they just sit back and realize that there's no real* problem. They need to know when they should just submit to the will of the dominant alliance.
Karasuma Akane Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:41:00 - [960] Originally by: Ysira Edited by: Ysira on 26/05/2007 00:22:32 This (and the other incidents before) is exactly why anybody with additional powers should be banned from playing on TQ with normal accounts. GMs, Devs and even most of the ISD people. If there is a private character on TQ and you still have "super powers", there will always be a conflict of interests. Originally by: Mari Onette eve has reached a point where people with admin rights to the game can no longer be taking part in it, unless you want these PR nightmares to keep happening. As long as GM's have alts in large alliances... Even if there was never any developer or GM misconduct again, you have already lost the trust of your players. I don't see any other way of restoring this trust except for not allowing people with admin rights to the game to play in alliances. Originally by: Samuel Freedom some of the DEV's are not mature enough to seperate 'playing' from there actual job. CCP needs to get rid of the self involved DEV's/GM's. Originally by: ApathyKills The FACT is that CCP acknowledges it's developers plays the game which gives rise to a whole basket of possible problems. People who can directly affect (for better or worse), in a LARGE way, systems are restricted from doing so in one way or another. Originally by: Kesslar Znel if I contacted my friends at Blizzard and asked for free stuff, heads up on what's going to be in the Black Temple, or for the firing of a GM, I'd be told, with the deadly seriousness that is usually reserved for the death of a family member, "Dude, I can't do that, I'd lose my job." That's apparently not the case at CCP, and that's a shame... Originally by: luminoll have you guys ever heard of ethics? This is a harsh game. No player can be friends with anyone who might give them an advantage. Its a conflict of interest. Even if this is all BS, CCP screwed themselves but allowing employees to fraternize with players. Originally by: Edwin Von**enScoop The people who are in charge of keeping the game fair have a vested intrest in keeping their alts corp powerful. This is a conflict of interest pure and simple and it must end. The simple fact is that with the current system there will continue to be misconduct by paid employees of CCP. Originally by: Dyeadmheet The sad fact here is that this kind of distrust with CCP is going to continue until everyone who's a developer or has any kind of special access to the database or anything within the game is disallowed from playing it. there's just no way to really resolve all of this and still allow developers to play the game. There's a deep conflict of interests here and everyone knows it. The problems are NOT going to go away until the conflict of interests is removed. As long as the conflict of interests continues, distrust and suspicion will continue. No amount of reassuring PR talk is going to make any real difference. CCP employees need to decide what is more important: doing their job and earning their real livelihood, or playing the game and their corporation and alliance 'friendships'. Until a strict policy along these lines is instituted and enforced, more instances of undue influence, unfair advantage, favoritism, corruption and cheating will continue to occur. Besides, Devs and GMs should be busy fixing bugs, creating content, and massacring macros while online... not benefiting their buddies. Have some professional responsibility and personal honor, and don't place yourself in positions where your work and your play come into conflict. Any CCP employee found to have contributed to cheating should be terminated, since such actions show and prove that they are not only willing to compromise their own job duties, but also undermine (further) CCP's reputation as a company and the entire game of Eve by tilting what should be the unbiased and impartial playing field rightly expected by all players. ----- The possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3,720 to 1.
synor	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:41:00 - [961] Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche Edited by: Louis DelaBlanche on 26/05/2007 03:32:47 For those crying fowl of CCPs aparent lack of professionalism, Its important to remember that most GMs & indeed even Developers are not Professionals, theyre gamers. Unfortunately this means there will always be some who are unable to make the leap. Its same idealistic fallacy with the flawed business idea that someone good at their job will be good at managing others at that job. Well, the thing is, as CCP tells it, in order to do their job of providing this game to consumers, that they have to play. This makes them professional, paid for play, in every sense of the word. The problem for more typical players are the consistant complaints that CCP is gaming (pardon the pun) the system for a subset of users. The claimed advantages, ranging from rare blueprints, to extra attention on bugs, to banning people that claim to have caught wrongdoing, misbalance the game to the point that any paying customer is merely fodder for developers that like to play games. These claims are akin to several American baseball teams complaining that the NY Yankees paid the salaries of doctors that did drug testing. The temptation to let your own players slide on steroid testing while banning others from the game for doing the same would be a strong one. This is why people such as I deeply believe that developers should be banned from play. There is an inherent conflict of interest in developers playing, as any developer is interested in not just doing a good job at work, but wants to do a good job at play too.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:42:00 - [962] Edited by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on 26/05/2007 05:42:20 Originally by: ExplodingBears Formal Presentation of the Issue of the Relationship Between CCP and BoB 1. CCP and members of the BoB alliance share a correspondence that is not nearly neutral and has been admitted as such. 2. The communication between BoB and CCP has directly resulted in the furthering of BoB causes. 3. CCP has made a concerted effort to cover up these happenings. I would ask that you please respond to these points in order to hold an intelligent and legitimate discussion. 1. ccp and bob talked as friends so what? Are people not allowed to have friends now? 2. All that hapepned was the bpo thing and that was alrady taken care of so what is your problem. 3. No they havent ccp took care of it and set up that arknon guy to make sure no other corrupiton happened, which it hasn't. All thats happened is a bunch of whiney goonies have ddosed eve b/c they cant beat bob. The real problem is goonies who blob and exploiut eve and then whine when they cant win with those tactics. Maybe if goonies had some honor they could beat bob, but i guess they have to whine on eveo instead.
Cudaya Ebsldes	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:44:00 - [963] I didn't read all the pages (about 15 of them)but I suppose it all comes down to if: 1. We trust CCP to tell the truth. 2. If yes or no is the game worth the money. Due to certain other events I have stumbled into, I do not trust CCP. I don't think it is worth supporting gameplay of the elite, when I have no chance to advance to such an exaulted rank. And this rankles me the most. What they develop due to their policies of allowing the blurring of the line between the CCP corporation and the "user experience" has become merely their own private playpen -- no others need apply.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:52:00 - [964] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Ccp had to take downtheir forums because of you goonies, I think that speaks for itself. To be fair it could be argued that if the initial thread wasn't locked right away and if CCP had taken the charges seriously to begin with the spamming operation may not have been necessary. Sadly that seemed to be what was required to get CCP to take the issue seriously. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Diomedes Godshill Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:53:00 - [965] Edited by: Diomedes Godshill on 26/05/2007 05:52:49 Originally by: Skrypt "Hi. I'm an ex-LV that got wtfpwned by GoonSwarm and joined BoB forsaking all my former allies because of my friendship with ex-LV cap ship pilots. In turn, I'm going to whine on the forums about whatever I can because that's the only place we can win. omg w00t. ex-LV 4 life! I'm also hoping to impress my BoB overlords whom I welcome." <3 That's more accurate.
Uumii	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:53:00 - [966] Originally by: Blind Rebel Happy FANFEST lol
TinyPirate	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:54:00 - [967] Originally by: Foopadoo It's not a "witch hunt" if the witch admits to witchery Genius, absolute genius!
BuyN Sell	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:55:00 - [968] Originally by: Skrypt "Hi. I'm a goonie. I'm getting wtfpwned. In turn, I'm going to whine on the forums about whatever I can because that's the only place we can win. omg w00t. gooniefleet 4 life!" Too bad CCP values their monthly income too much to ban each one of them just for the sake of having done it. <3 You were making comments like that in your last alliance too weren't you?
Zippy Pinno Damage Unlimited Inc	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:57:00 - [969] Originally by: Factor Benz Originally by: Zippy Pinno Its one thing to complain here - spam this forum, whine and scream. It is quite another to out on the net and actively try to undermine the game like so: http://digg.com/pc_games/EVE_Creators_CCP_Under_Fire_Again_for_Alleged_Corruption_Open_Letter_Made/who It seems the goons cant win and now they just plain want to kill EVE. News articles have this thing called "content". If CCP and BoB weren't providing the article with "content" then the article wouldn't exist. I'm not sure how you can equate bringing to light an injustice with goons killing eve. Goons did not perform the acts described in that article. That was all BoB and CCP. If there was no mud there'd be nothing to sling. Your statement is silly. CCP is acting rather silly - the dev should have been fired after the first incident. This incident is just pure theatrics - published by the goons. Trying to put pressure on CCP by actively campaigning against EVE itself - bad form.
FatHed Eye of the Abyss	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:58:00 - [970] Originally by: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Originally by: Raznarok Edited by: Raznarok on 26/05/2007 05:36:41 Originally by: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Originally by: Raznarok Not cool people. CCP give you a great game and you pay them back by stirring ** like this up. You have no idea the amount of time your wasting or people paying for their subscriptions. I reckon they should ban all the ** stirriers tbh. Aside from your hilarious call for people to get banned this post, much like the Axiom alliance, makes no sense. Like yourself not posting with your main. Wimp. No need to get snitty. I can't help it if your alliance is irrelevant. It's foolish comments like that, that at this point, would make me question whether you are a BoB member, or a CCP employee, the sad part is, neither would surprise me at this point. That should be sad for you too, but if you want a game of nothing but bob and the macro miners, have fun.
sladin Marks	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:58:00 - [971] The whole situation is sad, I am convinced that CCP is acting dishonorably and my faith in their ability to stay subjective and not help their friends has been shaken. I speak for myself in this, but I'm bothered by the way this game is being administered.
Maniva Lakona	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:59:00 - [972] Wonder if BoB knew all the enemy ship setups in the torney? /puts on her tin foil hat!
ExplodingBears	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:59:00 - [973] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Edited by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on 26/05/2007 05:42:20 Originally by: ExplodingBears Formal Presentation of the Issue of the Relationship Between CCP and BoB 1. CCP and members of the BoB alliance share a correspondence that is not nearly neutral and has been admitted as such. 2. The communication between BoB and CCP has directly resulted in the furthering of BoB causes. 3. CCP has made a concerted effort to cover up these happenings. I would ask that you please respond to these points in order to hold an intelligent and legitimate discussion. 1. ccp and bob talked as friends so what? Are people not allowed to have friends now? 2. All that hapepned was the bpo thing and that was alrady taken care of so what is your problem. 3. No they havent ccp took care of it and set up that arknon guy to make sure no other corrupiton happened, which it hasn't. All thats happened is a bunch of whiney goonies have ddosed eve b/c they cant beat bob. The real problem is goonies who blob and exploiut eve and then whine when they cant win with those tactics. Maybe if goonies had some honor they could beat bob, but i guess they have to whine on eveo instead. People are allowed to have friends, but professional moderators and developers are not allowed to have favorites. I'm not talking about the BPO ordeal, I'm talking about BoB's ability to summon a member of CCP to do their bidding. In no moral spectrum is this acceptable. At times I wonder if you yourself can believe the bile you're coughing up. If you are really too blind to see that CCP is playing favorites, even after multiple scandals favoring one group, then you have no right to influence the opinions of others. And again you go with those goon blob buzzwords. I've so far refrained from any such meaningless name-calling. I won't let this devolve into BoD vs BlobSwarm because that is not the present issue. The problem is within CCP.
Dop Sutol	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:02:00 - [974] If BoB really is up to their eyeballs with this corruption, then they are showing what type of friends they are to CCP. CCP may not be able to come clean because they would be held liable, but BoB can come clean though and not be held liable at all. If BoB is hiding behind their "friends" at CCP allowing them to take a fall for their greed, well, then I would rather be friends with a ****** fiend and give em the keys to my house, personally. And if the goons are making this up, then you are some real ba$tards for trying to destroy someone's livelihood. Either way, my opinion of guilds has been confirmed by this: they are the most destructive force in MMORPGs.
Fivo Asia	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:03:00 - [975] Originally by: God Chaser Edited by: God Chaser on 26/05/2007 05:41:06 Edited by: God Chaser on 26/05/2007 05:40:21 I have tried to get some friends to join eve but they said the forums they have read shows that the game is fixed. And so a waste of hard earned money.Its sad that eve is destroying itsself and doing nothing about it but covering it up.Must be nice when your paying customers are of no concern.... guess the reference is true we play BOB Online... I just noticed that I'm 4 days from being on EVE a year with two accounts. I've tried to get many of my former MMO players to come to EVE but the number two reasons I cannot bring many over are the length of time required to have a somewhat functional toon that can actually do more than one thing, and the continual cheating by player devs that is promulgated outside this forum for a variety of reasons. CCP should decide which course they're gonna take. If you (devs) want to have a private server for your friends, please tell us all now so we can cancel and wait till something else comes along with a shot at a decent space opera.
Maskface	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:03:00 - [976] They wouldn't have a blurb about Dev cheating on every major tech news website if CCP would just use a little discretion and transparency when dealing with players. The T20 thing was a ridiculous farce, in which the whole community was completely lied to until the facts simply couldn't be ignored anymore, and only then were the bpo's finally removed, and now we have allegations of not only role playing rigging, but also of mass banninations, and cover-ups galore. And let us not forget the fact that T20 wasn't even removed from the game after committing some of the most egregious violations and completely destroying CCP's credibility with the player community. And now we have the latest bull**** allegations, in which once again we the players come to find that EVE isn't the fair and balanced place it's supposed to be, and the goons, though living up to their reputation as griefers, really have no choice but to bomb the boards with their open letter, because exactly how else are they supposed to achieve justice when the it's become patently obvious the SOME developers are in league with their alliances? Cheating has now become the norm rather than the exception. Even now as I post this, I'm almost waiting for my ban, because that's how far down the rabbit hole this stupid game has fallen. Congratulations CCP, your universe is officially dead, and who would have thought you yourselves would be the one to kill it.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:03:00 - [977] Edited by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on 26/05/2007 06:02:37 Since bob always gets called band of developers how about we start callign goonswarm whineswarm
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:05:00 - [978] If these are the rules And if these are the laws Then I will play falsely Cos they're filled with flaws I won't play your game Cos I think that it's lame And if you feel just like a do Oh! You can become a cheater too Cheater, cheater, cheater, cheater If you feel just like I do You can become a cheater too, yeah! I'm a brick through your window A stick in your machinery A time bomb ready to blow I'm friday thirteen on your diary Cheater, cheater, cheater, cheater And if you feel just like I do You can become a cheater too, all along you cheater sing Oh yeah! - Oh yeah! You can become a cheater too If you feel just like a do Yeah! I promise that it's true You can become a cheater too Cheater, cheater, cheater, cheater -------------- My name is oozoo and my sig is yellow!
Ingress AFK	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:06:00 - [979] CCP, pay attention. Your reputation is gained in inches and lost in miles.
Sacrosanctus	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:07:00 - [980] Allow me to use an lolanalogy. Imagine we're playing a professional level sport. Let's say football. A championship level game is being held, let's say between Britain and France. Now, a member of British team was found out last season to be using steroids his entire career, but wasn't caught before because he had a social connection with a guy who processed the drug testings. The man working with the drug tests was not fired but moved to another job. Eventually public outrage subsided and no one really cared anymore. Now imagine it's the middle of the championship game, and news breaks that the entire British team was out drinking the previous night with the company responsible for the drug testings for the game. what the ****. Do you people not get 'conflict of interest'?
ExplodingBears	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:08:00 - [981] Originally by: Ingress CCP, pay attention. Your reputation is gained in inches and lost in miles. I'm afraid that this is no longer true. There are only inches left to lose.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:08:00 - [982] Suggestion: If you're going to delete threads and petitions bringing up concerns about Dev/GM/Mod corruption, moderate out references like BoD (which is a stupid term, but snipping it out is even stupider), and lock things up tight into a single thread while doing an investigation.... Perhaps tell your GMs not to offer up their personal opinions on the matter in Jita local? GM Kutsu, I'm looking at you.
FatHed Eye of the Abyss	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:09:00 - [983] Edited by: FatHed on 26/05/2007 06:08:55 Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Edited by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on 26/05/2007 06:02:37 Since bob always gets called band of developers how about we start callign goonswarm whineswarm If you were an American, I'd say that you must be a Bush supporter, because only his goonies can continually flood polarizing comments out with such effectiveness. For the record, I work at a competing game development corporation. If I was even accused of doing what is accused here, I would be fired. I have friends at other competing corporations, and the same would happen there. Again, there is only 1 way to "solve" this problem, and that is to post the unedited chat logs, including MSN. Edit: Missed a word.
microant	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:09:00 - [984] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Bu Jinkan I thought this was all overblown until Rebellion and you came out and admitted that you really do talk to the dev teams and have special lines that we don't. Of course you didn't. And, if you guys for one minute tried to engage with the community rather than turn it in to your (self coined phrase) "goons in space" you may actually get that kind of contact. As it is you pull stunts like this. Way to win friends and influence people? I think you will find if ANYONE other than BOD tried this, it would get them no where. ALL CCP INVOLVMENT WITH BoB (and any other alliance/corp) MUST STOP, AND STOP NOW. It is grossly unfair for you to know all advantages about the game and blah blah blah. Not to mention T20 and now having an inocent reporter fired. YOU AND YOUR ALLIANCE make CCP look bad. NOT GOON for bringing this crap up. Go cram it up your *** BOB and CCP, if this isn't resolved correctly, no more money from me.
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:10:00 - [985] Posting in a Epic Thread ______ Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:11:00 - [986] Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Edited by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on 26/05/2007 06:02:37 Since bob always gets called band of developers how about we start callign goonswarm whineswarm How about you start putting some relevant content in your awful posts?
Burly SpaceFilth	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:12:00 - [987] The allegations and handling of the issues are all disappointing so far. I unfortunately expect that these things will happen sometimes because that's human nature, but I also expect issues to be handled professionally and conflicts of interest fixed, not hidden and/or left for mistakes to be repeated. As a dev/mod, power comes with responsibility, and if abused you might as well turn your guns on yourself. Although I enjoy EVE, I can spend money and time in other ways that are equally enjoyable and don't leave me wondering if I'm being scammed. I agree that the best way to voice dissatisfaction with this is with the wallet, pending CCP's side of the story. If I go, I'd like my ashes scattered over the Rens station campers so as to obstruct their vision.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:12:00 - [988] wait why is an isd member banning even a player issue yall are really lovin the soap box its a lie by goonswarm - they just dont want eve to exist anymore ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Factor Benz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:14:00 - [989] Originally by: SiJira wait why is an isd member banning even a player issue yall are really lovin the soap box its a lie by goonswarm - they just dont want eve to exist anymore A complete fabrication. It's all an elaborate ruse designed to get BoB to admit that they talk to the devs via backchannel instant messages. In fact, we hate Eve so much that we've brought 4000+ people to the game and continue to pay our monthly fees.
Dark Morphling	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:14:00 - [990] By the way, if anyone wants to read the article of accusation with screenshots included as evidence, let me know and I'll send you the link to the website ingame. You could easily search for it yourself, but if you're lazy I will help you. I read the article carefully, and am saddened by it. -DM
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:14:00 - [991] Originally by: Zippy Pinno Edited by: Zippy Pinno on 26/05/2007 05:49:09 Its one thing to complain here - spam this forum, whine and scream. It is quite another to out on the net and actively try to undermine the game like so: http://digg.com/pc_games/EVE_Creators_CCP_Under_Fire_Again_for_Alleged_Corruption_Open_Letter_Made/who It seems the goons cant win and now they just plain want to kill EVE. if the goons wanted to kill eve they wouldn't be clamoring for change. People like you who only see one side of the situation are the problem. Either 1) CCP does nothing and EVE implodes 2) CCP is clever and most of the community quits 3) CCP fixes the problems and everyone is happy, except the stupid fcks who got laid off because they were stupid fcks.
Quartz Mine	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:15:00 - [992] Edited by: Quartz Mine on 26/05/2007 06:15:54 Edited by: Quartz Mine on 26/05/2007 06:14:47 Originally by: SiJira wait why is an isd member banning even a player issue yall are really lovin the soap box its a lie by goonswarm - they just dont want eve to exist anymore oh hey...wow thats a lot of posts...ehhh...nah, I don't think I'll read it all and just put in my own comments. surely my ideas will be thoughtful, deep, and insightful. as well as current with the topic at hand and in no way look like I simply skimmed a few lines e: i splel gud
Straw Man	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:15:00 - [993] Glad to see the Iraqi information minister got a new job.. guess hes' working at CCP now. -- "It is a rare mind indeed that can render the hitherto non-existent blindingly obvious." - Doug Adams --
FatHed Eye of the Abyss	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:15:00 - [994] Originally by: SiJira wait why is an isd member banning even a player issue yall are really lovin the soap box its a lie by goonswarm - they just dont want eve to exist anymore Certain of that, well, it could be determined, CCP, post the logs. If it is true, then quite frankly, I wouldn't care if Eve existed anymore or not.
Gee Lok	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:16:00 - [995] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Likewise your post could be explained by Confirmation Bias. Here is a quote from the Wikipedia article: Quote: In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias is a tendency to search for or interpret new information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions and avoid information and interpretations which contradict prior beliefs..... Of course thats all conjecture on both of our parts... The very next paragraph says: Quote: Confirmation bias is an area of interest in the teaching of critical thinking... And yet you just throw the Conformation bias wildcard on the table and claim that it trumps whatever I said. No discussion, no argument, nothing. What type of deluded critical thinking is that? Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch No, we [Goons] are pretty good at admitting that pretty much everything that goes wrong is our fault. If there's one thing that Goonfleet prides itself it's making stupid mistakes on a truly colossal scale. That's why this issue has anything whatsoever to do with us other than the fact that we were the ones who got public discussion of it going. Do you really expect people to believe that? That goons pride themselves on having their fleets destroyed time after time, on loosing or on being incompetent. Are goons doing this out of the goodness of their hearts for the benefit of the community? I doubt it. Afte all, the goon franchise openly prides itself on griefing people and ruining their gaming experiences. Goons want to succeed as much as everyone else. To pretend otherwise is foolish.
Leonard Darwin Rosewood Productions	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:17:00 - [996] Yikes... at the start of this thread it was pure speculation. Goonies putting forth something that may or may not have had a thread of truth woven in it. Totally skeptical. An interesting read, but nothing more there until more information was revealed. And information is then revealed... really, I'd have thought some of you would have thought about the implications of your posts before posting in a hot topic, perhaps rereading them before submitting. BoB, you damned yourself in this thread and it wasn't even about you! But now you have stirred the hornets nest and you yourselves backed the allegations against your very 'friends' by admitting you have instantaneous contact with them. Alas, regardless of the truth of this, I'm not sure what people expect the outcome to be. The very people investigating the situation are the ones that may or may not have allowed this to happen. It's like finding out those at a police station are taking a 'cut' from drug busts and then marching into that very police station and reporting them... their investigation might tend to be a tad biased. The only truths one can currently pull from this thread is that a Dev temporarily joined a player corp for reasons unknown (at least to the public) and that certain players have questionable relationships with those who play the game. One of those truths is very disconcerting for me As it should be for everyone. This isn't just about The War and us peons in empire are not affected by what happens/happened. This affects, directly or indirectly, all subscribers to the game. Some people may not care - fair enough. However, I've seen first hand during previous gaming experiences what having relationships with GMs/Coders opens up. For the time being, however, I'll assume CCP was smart enough to hire a third party, who don't play EvE, for Internal Affairs to handle investigations of employee misconduct. Otherwise, the players have no hope for resolution. Good luck to all involved. Whatever happens, this is going to be a bumpy ride for everyone.
Maskface Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:17:00 - [997] Originally by: SiJira wait why is an isd member banning even a player issue yall are really lovin the soap box its a lie by goonswarm - they just dont want eve to exist anymore Pfft, Nice try, but when any player is banned for nefarious reasons, it's all our problem. Especially when we find out BOB players have MSN contact with Dev's, or that fact that the RP stuff has been shown to be completely rigged.
Iiva	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:17:00 - [998] Originally by: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Edited by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on 26/05/2007 06:02:37 Since bob always gets called band of developers how about we start callign goonswarm whineswarm How about you start putting some relevant content in your awful posts? Yeah, I mean... that post sure was Something Awful, there, huh!
Vladimir Tinakin Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:17:00 - [999] Originally by: SiJira wait why is an isd member banning even a player issue yall are really lovin the soap box its a lie by goonswarm - they just dont want eve to exist anymore That the ISD guy was fired in less than an hour because a bob member fired up MSN is the primary concern here...NO ONE should have that kind of access, period. It SCREAMS favoritism and lack of objectivity at best. It also lends accusations of collusion and conspiracy weight. If theres a problem with the guy, submit a petition like all us other paying *******s and wait for a response. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards
SF Killage	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:19:00 - [1000] Alright CCP, everybody hates you and your all gonna loose your jobs. There's only one way outa this. Sell the game to LucasArts.
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:19:00 - [1001] To be frank, I think Arkanon is front with little credibility, designed to manage our anger and prevent loss of customers. Time for ISD to be filled by paid staff or be subject to public review to prevent these kinds of things.
TinyPirate	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:20:00 - [1002] What's scary is that the BEST POSSIBLE description of current events reads like this: -A CCP employee needs to fix something in DarkStar1, but because of crappy dev. tools, the only way he can do this it by joining the Corp in such a way that he also gains access to all their secret information. He doesn't tell anyone in DS1 that he is doing this, and deletes their petition when they ask about what happened. -Some prankster seizes on comments Orange Species made in local chat about how BoB has CCP bigwigs on speed-dial, and claims that those comments were serious. OS isn't punished for those comments, but Goons who makes similar jokes about developer corruption in local chat are banned. -The same prankster, in claiming the RP-events are corrupt, draws on our memories of a past incident where Orange Species' former Corp, LV, managed to complete a major RP-event in an impossibly quick time. CCP really, really needs to work on their customer relations. If this is much ado about nothing then the drama is no one's fault but CCP's.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:21:00 - [1003] Originally by: Leonard Darwin Yikes... at the start of this thread it was pure speculation. Goonies putting forth something that may or may not have had a thread of truth woven in it. Totally skeptical. An interesting read, but nothing more there until more information was revealed. And information is then revealed... really, I'd have thought some of you would have thought about the implications of your posts before posting in a hot topic, perhaps rereading them before submitting. BoB, you damned yourself in this thread and it wasn't even about you! But now you have stirred the hornets nest and you yourselves backed the allegations against your very 'friends' by admitting you have instantaneous contact with them. Alas, regardless of the truth of this, I'm not sure what people expect the outcome to be. The very people investigating the situation are the ones that may or may not have allowed this to happen. It's like finding out those at a police station are taking a 'cut' from drug busts and then marching into that very police station and reporting them... their investigation might tend to be a tad biased. The only truths one can currently pull from this thread is that a Dev temporarily joined a player corp for reasons unknown (at least to the public) and that certain players have questionable relationships with those who play the game. One of those truths is very disconcerting for me As it should be for everyone. This isn't just about The War and us peons in empire are not affected by what happens/happened. This affects, directly or indirectly, all subscribers to the game. Some people may not care - fair enough. However, I've seen first hand during previous gaming experiences what having relationships with GMs/Coders opens up. For the time being, however, I'll assume CCP was smart enough to hire a third party, who don't play EvE, for Internal Affairs to handle investigations of employee misconduct. Otherwise, the players have no hope for resolution. Good luck to all involved. Whatever happens, this is going to be a bumpy ride for everyone. You assumed wrong. There was no third party, nor even one versed in investigations of any kind hired. A developer was selected from the pack.
Lindsay Bluth	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:21:00 - [1004] Wow...that GM Kutsu chatlog from Jita local is just....wow.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:22:00 - [1005] Hmm. During BoB/ASCN war, I was sitting at POS in TCAG, when a dev showed up with ASCN corp ticker (CLS-F). He was, seemingly, "fixing" POS bug too. I was just there watching the show, so I don't know the details, but some of ex CLS-F people should be able to give details, I guess. Oh yes, try to guess which dev it was But I don't think anyone took it as a bob-dev-hax event at the time, I think we all geniunely thought he was there to fix something. I still beleive it. But DS1 story is waaaay different, so... let's see what CCP has to say. There might be an explanation for DS1 situation. Not so sure about ISD thing, I'd love to hear what CCP has to say about it. Is it a lie or not? Just a "yes" or "no" would be nice, no need to wrap it up, like you're giving it to 12yrs olds. And another minor thing bugs me... Do all 4 year players have "private links" to EVE developers? I mean, if it is so normal for a people that play the game for 4 years (as Dian puts it), to establish a relationship with developers, does it mean all these 4-year old players/corps also have direct links to devs? Or only members of certain corps/alliances got to have that privilege? I play for little more than a year. Could I have a private link to some low ranking GM, for start, then? You can "upgrade" me to devs in 3 years, it's ok. I can wait.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:22:00 - [1006] Originally by: Aries Acheron People need to start posting with their mains. Actually it would be great if everyone posted with alts if just to counterract the attempt to spin this as an issue of in-game politics when it's really a matter of how the game is run.
Sir Emi Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:22:00 - [1007] I have read the open letter and I have to admit that the evidence and facts point out a big flaw in the relation between devs and players. Even if a dev is friends with a player, this relations should _not_ span to a level where the dev turns his back on the whole community and fairness of the virtual world and follows the orders of a player to the extent of banning the best members of that community. It's eighter that, or those players are the devs or staff members or their relatives but even so, Eve is _not_ a family game. Those players are acting like they own the game, and we all others that play it are just bugs that need to be fixed or deleted. :) If they want to play like that and ban members at will for favoritism, like that poor reporter they can make a special cluster just for them or something. Oh well, hope they sort it out. Serves an example of what not to do. Space Odyssey Maker...
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:23:00 - [1008] its amazing how all the nameless nobody alts come out and blame goonswarm for this developer corruption. It makes no sense! All goonswarm did was bring this to light, because we all know CCP's stance on misconduct: If nobody makes a fuss, it never happened. It takes actions like these to get results, like IA. Stop trying to deflect the issue. The issue is not goonswarm, but the actions of select CCP staff that risked the reputation of their company to get ahead in an internet spaceship game. The issue is how people will do anything, take advantage of everything, and risk the livelihood of their 'friends' to get ahead. This corruption is somehow acceptable? And many posters here blame goonswarm for this? This thread is about the allegations of developer misconduct, not your petty sour grapes over failed alliances and destroyed internet spaceships. Stick to the message, not the messenger.
Tyrrhena Maxus Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:23:00 - [1009] No matter what anybody says, this is utterly disgusting. CCP obviously thinks EVE is its own personal playground, where they can make and break the rules at will, and try and cover it up. When are they going to realise that WE THE PLAYERBASE fund this adventure, and we won't tolerate dev scandal after scandal. This is in fact why we are at war with BoD, the most 'high and mighty' alliance in the game full of talented players, yet when their alliance burns into nothing but ash they will always be remembered as a bunch of idiotic cheaters that were scared to lose their internet spaceships. poor form. poor form indeed.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:24:00 - [1010] Originally by: Gee Lok Do you really expect people to believe that? That goons pride themselves on having their fleets destroyed time after time You're not very familiar with the corporation known as "Goonfleet" are you?
Sacrosanctus	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:32:00 - [1011] Originally by: Xade It seems goonswarm and co are the most paranoid alliance in eve. Why if a Dev or GM does something like this, does it become a BoB cheating thread ? For all you know they might be in your alliance and trying to use their powers to assist your alliance - still this isn't a good thing but not all devs and GM's are in BoB. One thing your alliance should have done was kept this under wraps because the massive amount of complaining might point to the fact that the pos's in question do infact contain something worth this amount of complaining. i'm looking forward to maybe seeing the insigators of these accusations being banned or atleast getting some sort of warning because it needs to stop and always seems to be the same people and alliances doing the complaining. complaining because of cheating is one thing, but complaining purely to discredit CCP and certain alliances in-game is another - you guys decide what it is your actually doing. Read the thread. All of your points have already been refuted.
Diomedes Godshill Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:33:00 - [1012] Edited by: Diomedes Godshill on 26/05/2007 06:32:56 Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? This needed to be quoted again. The "we" is BoB. They want the game developed in their image.
Shipzz	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:35:00 - [1013] PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:36:00 - [1014] I've been sitting here trying to think of exactly what I can say. The events that I learned about shortly before going to bed have really dampened my spirit today. It is sad that CCP has not yet learned from past mistakes. The fact that Dianabolic has admitted in this thread that BoB has been the benefactors of a line of communication not afforded to the majority of players, BoB constituting between 1 and 2% of the game population, is really not helpful to BoB as a whole and not helpful to CCP. This is a clear line of communication that exists solely to circumvent the normal petition and bug system. One that has only been given to a very small minority of the playerbase. This is highly inappropriate. This line of communication needs to be shut down immediately. CCP should have closed it when they enabled the integral voice chat into EVE, after that there was really no need to continue with MSN, Yahoo or other chat programs. Plus the integral voice chat would assist IA in keeping tabs on what is going on. From evidence seen it is clear this exploit has been used by Dianabolic, Orange Species and D4kkon. They should be banned effective immediately. CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar has been shown as a facilitator of this inappropriate line of communication. He needs to be terminated as an employee and all of his characters deleted. I am willing given past precedent to see the CCP Sharkbait issue as one that was perhaps just a misunderstanding and poorly handled mess. He has a clear precedent for entering corps for petition purposes, however the petition should not have been immediately deleted, nor should efforts by the CEO been ignored. New rules need to be firmly in place regarding the handling of entering a corp. I'm surprised the database administrator couldn't pull any logs needed for a petition to be answered without need to enter a corp since all such logs are server side. It is clear an investigation of previous Aurora events needs to occur. Any employee found to have given information on events to any player needs to be terminated immediately. Any player who received such information and used it needs to be banned. The ships being tossed to and fro by the storm, and its in danger of sinking beneath the waves. Someone at CCP needs to step up to the plate, take the necessary actions to restore order and calm and let the ship resume a safe and prosperous journey before it is too late. Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Tyrrhena Maxus Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:37:00 - [1015] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Aries Acheron People need to start posting with their mains. Actually it would be great if everyone posted with alts if just to counterract the attempt to spin this as an issue of in-game politics when it's really a matter of how the game is run. quoting dis for truth
xinndo jagged Caldari Anvil	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:37:00 - [1016] summary player base - p***ed off that this has happened yet again - yup! player base - will keep playing in majority due to fact they are addicted to the business/game model (yup u know ur gf is cheating on but you've already got the mortage on ur house and theres' no way your getting to keep the last 3 years+ of payments ) genius! stay and lose? leave and lose? play in the full knowledge that everything you do in game will not amount to anything but supporting a biased space game that was designed to be player base strong. thats the failure imo - BoD win eve \o/ what next? Are BoD planning to make eve2? enjoy your time in sun ccp/BoD and impressing the 14 trial characters in jita that "i won eve btw in 2007" play games - win without cheating, you get respect of your gaming peers. but hey noob(insert BoD/whatever) with +4 years dev access and this is all you've managed to achieve? lol. covering up an open letter to the community and posting with fanbois to an already discontented playerbase is brilliant move - really... see you in jita next year when you can tell me how amazing you are.
Nnozzz	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:37:00 - [1017] WOW I read all of these posts, visited the pages to review the material in question and the gaming sites posting these incidents. I am fairly new to Eve but i do honestly enjoy it, First MMO I have ever paid for Dual accounts, it is an incredible MMO compared to any other on the market. Other issues aside ie... latency issues/delays from recent patches. I have to repeat what has all ready been stated This incident needs Transparency. No matter where you reside in Eve, Empire or 0.0, you need to be asured that all should be fair and equal, I have heard of BOB/Alliance issues before this, the T20 issue for one. But this new information and the confirmation that BOB/Alliance have direct access to Developers and devs who play in any of the alliances is unacceptable. From your last T20 issue you should of realized this, No MMO with integrity allows this to occur they too have seen the issues of collusion. It remains a very Depressing issue to read and evaluate. I am not pleased with the responses I have seen on the forums from BOB/Alliance members, as a new player you can easily see they have little respect for the game and treat any others opinion with undue disrespect. If they had respect we would see more interest in a balanced game, and not the "its for the good of eve we have direct access to devs attitude." I pay my dues for dual accounts, and I fight to reside in 0.0. I have to show my paper trail in all my Eve actions, how can EVE ever be taken serious if you allow others to create there own rules. This should never of been allowed to take place, anymore than the other cheating issue, T20. End it and seek an open transparent, outside investigation and bring Pride back to EVE. The alternative is Auto Renewal = OFF. and no you cant have my stuff... I will Trash my stuff so you can not have it.
Danthomir	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:38:00 - [1018] :-\ I came to this game from WoW, seeing that CCP was a caring and sensible company that paid attention to everyone's opinions and needs. Balance was done with the players in mind, the players were informed of what was happening, and there was even a server that stuff could be tested on prior to implementation. Big, happy community where the game-makers are buddy-buddy with the game-players. In some cases, too buddy-buddy, it seems. Friends are cool, but extensive influence exerted through those friends? Blizzard's practices kept something as huge as Starcraft 2 hidden from the public. If they can do that, they sure as hell can keep WoW GMs from showing favoritism. Since WoW's the big MMO out right now, it's the standard by which other games can be measured. In many, many, many things, EVE surpasses WoW by leaps and bounds. Why did it fail in this? Writing this, it occurs to me that this thread is probably a safety valve, meant to relieve pressure without getting any work done. Does anyone in a position of power care and pay attention? Are all the announcements and devblogs merely empty words? Where did the trust I once had in CCP go?
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:38:00 - [1019] Originally by: Viktor Bout Goons go and play POTBS. In POTBS you have a Dev whos a member of SA/Goons. You are searching for an excuse to leave eve coz you ruined nearly every mmporg youve joined exept eve. You assimilated nearly every corp in your area and you still cant win this game. You cant win by blobbing and you cant win by leaving drama bombs. Zerg away... NO DAMNNIT! We're going to ruin this game if it's the last thing we do!
Iraf Thaiberd GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:38:00 - [1020] Originally by: Xade One thing your alliance should have done was kept this under wraps because the massive amount of complaining might point to the fact that the pos's in question do in fact contain something worth this amount of complaining. Believe me, we bring dislike dragging CCP's trash out into the public as much as you appear to dislike being reminded that it exists. Doing so forces us to deal with people like you, who can't read for content, and are somehow unaware (even though it's been said) that DS1 has 3 POSes, all for logistics, about which they have filed zero petitions. Again though, that's basically a sideshow compared to the ISD member banning via BoB MSN'ing a Dev and the fixing (AGAIN, has everyone forgotten the Hel competition won in 10 minutes flat by LV or the faction fitted "npc" capital assaults in BoB space?) of RP events in favor of old school alliances. There's a saying in Tennessee, maybe Texas, but I know it's in Tennessee, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice... can't be fooled again."[sic]
spiecies 2478	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:39:00 - [1021] im finding it funny to finally see goonswarm freaking out even though their the cause of this massive forum blackout. otherwise, i think that the GM and CCP Employees that are in the BoB alliance should see Goonswarm as a threat. their massive recruiting, their already the biggest alliance in the game. I think that the capital war has just started.
spiecies 2478	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:41:00 - [1022] i also think that every single account of goonswarm should be banned from the game. thanks to them, the whole game is in complete disarray.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:41:00 - [1023] Originally by: spiecies 2478 im finding it funny to finally see goonswarm freaking out even though their the cause of this massive forum blackout. otherwise, i think that the GM and CCP Employees that are in the BoB alliance should see Goonswarm as a threat. their massive recruiting, their already the biggest alliance in the game. I think that the capital war has just started. There was no need for a forum blackout unless CCP did something wrong and knows it.
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:41:00 - [1024] Originally by: FatHed Edited by: FatHed on 26/05/2007 06:08:55 Originally by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Edited by: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on 26/05/2007 06:02:37 Since bob always gets called band of developers how about we start callign goonswarm whineswarm If you were an American, I'd say that you must be a Bush supporter, because only his goonies can continually flood polarizing comments out with such effectiveness. For the record, I work at a competing game development corporation. If I was even accused of doing what is accused here, I would be fired. I have friends at other competing corporations, and the same would happen there. Again, there is only 1 way to "solve" this problem, and that is to post the unedited chat logs, including MSN. Edit: Missed a word. ex-Sony here. No Dev, but GM. You? Now... lol. Remember this: You`ve been on the other side. So maybe CCP has an excuse. "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!" -Culex (SMRPG)
WCPistolPete	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:41:00 - [1025] Is there a CliffNotes vesion of this thread?
Lindsay Bluth War-Mart	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:43:00 - [1026] Edited by: Lindsay Bluth on 26/05/2007 06:42:16 I think the devs quit moderating this thread ages ago
Factor Benz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:44:00 - [1027] Originally by: spiecies 2478 i also think that every single account of goonswarm should be banned from the game. thanks to them, the whole game is in complete disarray. I missed the part where we im'd GMs outside of the game who were our "friends" to handle something for us. That is the topic of discussion and that has caused the disarray. All we've done is post what happened. I'm sure you know that though because you read the thread...
Sickari	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:46:00 - [1028] after reading the original letter i only can say... this is sooo fked up... in every game some players try to get advantage fair or unfair ..but when the game staff is doing it...i think ur trying to see how much the community can take before u go bankrupt.. u should rethink your strategy because last i knew the predominant age of peeps playing eve is 20+ and were not stupid and wont turn a blind eye forever..fuk this game if it uneven...either we all cheat or noone cheat...if not let it die like soo many other games. R.I.P. u mofos
Shadow Steel	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:46:00 - [1029] BoB is a bastion of heresy! Only large scale military action will cleanse this world of their wickedness. Attack now, all! Rise up, and strike them down! Destroy them before their blasphemy and blight can spread further! (In-game military action/guerilla warfare For-The-Win.)
JeanColbert	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:46:00 - [1030] Misstakes are made everywhere, crooks and rotten appels are also everywhere. We should give ccp the opportunity to correct any mistakes made. Let them show they can deal just and fairly and with credibility. I would advice them to let the ceo himself (or a thrustwhorthy outsider) underwrite the report of the investigation.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:47:00 - [1031] Originally by: spiecies 2478 i also think that every single account of goonswarm should be banned from the game. thanks to them, the whole game is in complete disarray. Blame the victims why don't you? I bet you are one of those guys who blames girls for getting raped cause they dressed like a ****?
Razor Jaxx Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:48:00 - [1032] I'm not going to comment on the allegations themselves. Whether they are true or not has little bearing on my personal capsuleer career, and I have ceased to have blind faith in CCP a long time ago. What I DO find really appalling, however, is the absolute decay of this gamer community. Why is it that some people cannot accept to play the game within its well-defined framework? Why can't you simply accept your own limitations, be it skill, time, or wealth, and just enjoy the challenge of making a life for yourself in the EvE galaxy, within the accepted set of rules? Why can't you just, you know, have fun within the accepted context? Metagaming? Cheating? Exploiting? Spamming? Ego-tripping? Is a game of exploding pixels really all that important to you that you absolutely need to gain the upper hand whatever the cost? BoB this, Goon that. In the end you (and all other interested parties) are equally guilty in ruining what used to be a very enjoyable community. Keep it up, it'll make it easier for those of us that still play the game for, you know, ****s & giggles to actually call it a day and leave.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:48:00 - [1033] Originally by: JeanColbert Misstakes are made everywhere, crooks and rotten appels are also everywhere. We should give ccp the opportunity to correct any mistakes made. Let them show they can deal just and fairly and with credibility. I would advice them to let the ceo himself (or a thrustwhorthy outsider) underwrite the report of the investigation. A good start would be having an actual investigator do the investigating.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:49:00 - [1034] Originally by: goze Originally by: Sergeant Spot This bears repeating: ================================= CCP has fired staff before for in game misconduct. Yep, you read that right. And if the situation warrents it, I've no doubt they will again. But if CCP has any balls, they'll tell the howling lynch mob to go to hell. They will probably do so politely, but it will be the same thing. You'll have to do some digging, but the incident was all over the forums for a short while. If there is a firing warrented, I have no doubt it will happen. But I dont trust howling lynch mobs. You need to re-read the allegations - Raekhan wasn't fired for game misconduct, he was fired at BoB's explicit request. Dude, Raekhan basically told the guy to STFU in Local--read the logs, not his biased personal account of it!. That's blatant misconduct. Raekhan is supposed to be a neutral reporter on the news; he's not supposed to affect it in any way. As soon as someone suggested he was, the correct thing to do would have been to move FAR away and cloak, while asking a higher-up on IRC what to do next. Instead, he smacked in Local. I'd have fired him, too. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Maskface Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:49:00 - [1035] Totally inappropriate..... 2007.05.26 04:56:54 ] Nipild Ziomek > http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html [ 2007.05.26 04:56:54 ] Minkz0r > thx [ 2007.05.26 04:56:55 ] Agrilad > http://www.EmpireResearch.org [ 2007.05.26 04:57:39 ] DBW > wow thats way to long to read i dont really care that much [ 2007.05.26 04:57:42 ] PMA > wtb guardian-vexor [ 2007.05.26 04:57:48 ] DBW > thanks anyway though [ 2007.05.26 04:58:00 ] Death'giver > lol,guardian vexor [ 2007.05.26 04:58:19 ] SipeoM > Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer (Item Exchange) [ 2007.05.26 04:58:30 ] GM Kutsu > there is a proper thread for that on the forums.. keep it there [ 2007.05.26 04:58:36 ] ManniXXX > WTS Projectile metastasis Adjuster II [ 2007.05.26 04:58:37 ] The Internets > You can get em for 100 isk on the test server PMA [ 2007.05.26 04:59:03 ] The Internets > Roger that =x [ 2007.05.26 04:59:29 ] Amber Leonne > Hehehe, Kutsu has a silly face =) Like an Ammarrian Homer Simpson, I like it =P [ 2007.05.26 04:59:33 ] Allinput > Kutsu the proper place for that is not to happen at all dont you think? [ 2007.05.26 04:59:43 ] Khal > allinput, bad idea [ 2007.05.26 04:59:58 ] Khal > wait a week, some people will quit, other wont, just wait it out [ 2007.05.26 05:00:11 ] GM Kutsu > true. people shouldn't spread rumours, but should take it up with the proper channels and wait for them to respond [ 2007.05.26 05:00:23 ] Allinput > agreed [ 2007.05.26 05:00:49 ] Allinput > hope it turns out better than the last few [ 2007.05.26 05:00:57 ] Mazare Mircea > tbh, it's getting kinda hard to trust the proper channels, all GS spamming of the forums aside [ 2007.05.26 05:01:02 ] GM Kutsu > its just a moutain out of a molehill [ 2007.05.26 05:01:08 ] The Internets > I'd just like to say that a very large number of people do not read the EVE forums and that I believe using local channels to discuss such important issues should not be frowned upon [ 2007.05.26 05:01:30 ] GM Kutsu > discussion.. fine.. dont spam out of game links [ 2007.05.26 05:01:51 ] The Internets > I wasnt spamming =o [ 2007.05.26 05:01:59 ] Khal > sigh [ 2007.05.26 05:02:02 ] GM Kutsu > hence you are still talking here [ 2007.05.26 05:02:04 ] GM Kutsu > [ 2007.05.26 05:02:06 ] The Internets > Ill just stfu and go back to cowering [ 2007.05.26 05:02:07 ] Kakihara > you can't really say it's a mountain out of a molehill until we all hear the verdict on this [ 2007.05.26 05:02:10 ] The Internets > /emote cowers [ 2007.05.26 05:02:35 ] GM Kutsu > I've seen the petitions in question... [ 2007.05.26 05:02:37 ] Mazare Mircea > SISI is getting nicer and nicer to play ... [ 2007.05.26 05:02:42 ] GM Kutsu > its a mountain out of a molehill [ 2007.05.26 05:03:23 ] The Internets > But what about the ISD issue that wasnt addressed (to my knowledge)? [ 2007.05.26 05:03:29 ] Khal > i dont believe that is the part of the allegation epople are being most angered by [ 2007.05.26 05:03:45 ] GM Kutsu > unlikely but I will wait to hear from Arkanon. [ 2007.05.26 05:03:51 ] The Internets > The checking POS stuff with bugs seems like a simple misunderstanding [ 2007.05.26 05:03:54 ] Mazare Mircea > that's another mountain out of a molehill internets [ 2007.05.26 05:03:54 ] Khal > ok fair enough [ 2007.05.26 05:04:06 ] Khal > agreed internets [ 2007.05.26 05:04:19 ] GM Kutsu > I doubt it, but have no clue about that particular case, so "no comment" [ 2007.05.26 05:04:32 ] Mazare Mircea > like the t20 incident, like the faction fited RS, like the way LV got a hel ms in an event [ 2007.05.26 05:04:41 ] Mazare Mircea > all mountains out of molehills .... [ 2007.05.26 05:05:02 ] The Internets > Well, tbh [ 2007.05.26 05:05:10 ] Mazare Mircea > this allegation doesn't need to be true Kutsu, the fact that it is there ... ****es ppl more than if it is true or not [ 2007.05.26 05:05:15 ] The Internets > In the end its still an 'internet spaceship pewpew videogame' [ 2007.05.26 05:05:2
Chib Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:49:00 - [1036] tbh i think the worst part is that for the most part the reputations of both BOB and CCP have been ruined and the actions of a few has marked the many which im sure would not involve themselves with this since the t20 incident first came to light people who get beaten by bob will always have the argument they were beaten by CCP..whether or not its the case still remains to be proven for the most part but i truly hope for the sake of the game that the allegations made turn out to be innocent\false i happen to know alot of good guys in bob who are excellent pvp'rs, infact its probably the single biggest collection of hardcore vets in the game so its a shame for them and a shame for the game as a whole ---------------------------------------------
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:49:00 - [1037] And on it goes. Sort out your ******* employees ccp. Maybe you should start to run it professionally instead of hiring all these bloody players that work for less than minimum wages and will kill your game with their hobnobbing with other players releasing information and helping just so they can be cool for 5mins. Other games have died from this disease, I hope you realise the threat you are standing infront of and that nothing apart from total openness and some pretty serious banning will help you.
spiecies 2478	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:51:00 - [1038] aldo im not allowed to say it, but i think that with recent events, CCP really screwed up and goonswarm only helped that. you also see some messages from goonswarm that they dont care about the game. then why the hell are they paying? its a fact that EVE - Online is the biggest MMORPG game in the world. its also a fact that EVE - Online isnt going to survive for another year if all this is happening.
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:51:00 - [1039] Originally by: Danthomir :-\ I came to this game from WoW, seeing that CCP was a caring and sensible company that paid attention to everyone's opinions and needs. Balance was done with the players in mind, the players were informed of what was happening, and there was even a server that stuff could be tested on prior to implementation. Big, happy community where the game-makers are buddy-buddy with the game-players. In some cases, too buddy-buddy, it seems. Friends are cool, but extensive influence exerted through those friends? Blizzard's practices kept something as huge as Starcraft 2 hidden from the public. If they can do that, they sure as hell can keep WoW GMs from showing favoritism. Since WoW's the big MMO out right now, it's the standard by which other games can be measured. In many, many, many things, EVE surpasses WoW by leaps and bounds. Why did it fail in this? Writing this, it occurs to me that this thread is probably a safety valve, meant to relieve pressure without getting any work done. Does anyone in a position of power care and pay attention? Are all the announcements and devblogs merely empty words? Where did the trust I once had in CCP go? Comparing Blizzard and CCP is a nono. "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!" -Culex (SMRPG)
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:51:00 - [1040] Originally by: Razor Jaxx Why is it that some people cannot accept to play the game within its well-defined framework? I'd love to, but unfortunately different players seem to be playing within completely different "well-defined framework[s]" which is rather annoying in a PvP game. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:53:00 - [1041] lets make a mountain out of a mowlhill cake! --------------
Best	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:54:00 - [1042] well well well...this time seems like the shat is going to hit the fan... ccp get your shat together... you can't be confident about this game any longer...whats so difficult about being forthright and honest???
Lith Fael Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:56:00 - [1043] I wonder how many of ccp's top people are in secretly in BoB? Anyway CCP should make an amendment to their EULA somewhere along the lines of "customer is hereby ensured that ccp employees do not take part in the game and thus ccp ensures a level playing field for all players", that way all players can have a legal document to give them back their faith in CCP No ccp employee should be in any way able to play the game as a standard player, especially if they are privvy to future events/changes. In the real world taking advantage of insider info to gain advantages gets people put in jail in some situations, such as money trading.. Tho I guess they dont need to worry about that unless someone decides the timecard trading thing is a form of legal, real currency. Note: Views expressed are my own and are no way a reflection of any corporation or alliance ties that may be involved.
Baron Dots	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:59:00 - [1044] Take a look at every BOB and friend's posts that try to suppress the quest for the truth, it's written by immature people who can't help throwing insults. Cheating and smacking is all they know apparently.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 06:59:00 - [1045] Originally by: JeanColbert Misstakes are made everywhere, crooks and rotten appels are also everywhere. We should give ccp the opportunity to correct any mistakes made. Let them show they can deal just and fairly and with credibility. I would advice them to let the ceo himself (or a thrustwhorthy outsider) underwrite the report of the investigation. Unfortunately CCP so far has failed any attempt to police themselves to the point where it takes a threadnought and a downing of the forums on both occasions just to get CCP to even acknowledge any wrong doing. People are really ****ed and want blood, Like right this second. Seriously, If the backlash from the last cover-up was such an embarrassing (Yet somewhat hilarious) state of affairs i cannot wait for their response this time around. Yeah we already know BoB and CCP employees are cheaters, maybe not all of them but we know that its happened, this has already been confirmed when everyone last started throwing allegations around and the scapegoat owned up, yet for some reason was not punished. Yeah we also know that we don't have a Dev's admission of guilt to these new set of allegations, Because now CCP is meant to prove to us that they are in fact not completely and utterly corrupt. CCP's truthfulness and professionalism is now seriously doubted and you can expect to see more and more of these threads until the issue of transparency is solved by CCP once and for all. Or they at least manage to successfully convince us that they are actually trying to help, Which obviously is not working if we are having this problem, Again.
Gee Lok	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:02:00 - [1046] Originally by: Leonard Darwin Yikes... at the start of this thread it was pure speculation. Goonies putting forth something that may or may not have had a thread of truth woven in it. Totally skeptical. An interesting read, but nothing more there until more information was revealed. Anyone who any of the accusations on this thread at face value is being foolish.
Torhas Veto.	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:03:00 - [1047] To be fair to the devs, many devs for many MMOs play their own game and may even be biased about it. The problem lies with the nature of EVE: it's a game where cheating can gain much more than just "epic l00tz," there is actually something hinging on it. The line is definitely grayer in this sort of situation than, say, WoW or City of Heroes. In fact, the only game coming close is UO, and we all know that CCP devs were all cheating griefers in that. :p Disclaimer: not saying CCP cheat Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Simon Sairtonic	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:04:00 - [1048] I was really hoping this sort of stuff was resolved by now. Guess I won't be handing my money over.
Dav0r	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:21:00 - [1049] Edited by: Dav0r on 26/05/2007 07:19:55 So were the three main questions answered yet? I'm tired of waiting.
Jessica Sartuenski	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:22:00 - [1050] Originally by: Price Checking The **** just keeps comin' "For pure hilarity, I petitioned about GM policy concerning the allegations, that they should keep their trap shut until the investigation has been carried out. Guess who responded to my petition Yep. Edit: Yes that's right, dev conduct by GM Kutsu is being handled by.....GM Kutsu." That there is a GM handling a petition filed about his own inappropriate behaviour. are you trying to suggest that there might be a conflict of interest within ccp
Freddie Freeloader	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:24:00 - [1051] If I was a member of the management team at CCP, I would be absolutely mortified that my employees were continually engaged in embarrasing and unethical behavior that threatened the health and well being of the company and its one and only product. Seriously. I'd go berserk and have the offenders heads on a platter. I've been playing MMO's for like 10 years, and there have been little squabbles and minor scandals, but never - NEVER - anything as sordid and ridiculous as what goes on with EVE. And it all stems from one thing - CCP staff members being personally involved with the player base (and their corporations and alliances) resulting in a clear, obvious, and blatant conflict of interest that is so out in the open that it is exposed in public again and again and again, to the detriment of CCP and EVE. You can shoot the messengers all you'd like, but the problem isn't that people are exposing all of this, the problem is... THE ACTUAL PROBLEM - i.e. - the misconduct that is taking place and that you are apparently having trouble sorting out within your company. CCP - you should be ashamed that of all the games on the market, it is yours and yours alone that is generating these kinds of troubling disputes on a regular basis. If you want to kill the goose laying your golden eggs, then by all means, please keep employing your pals or whoever these gaming "professionals" are that engage in this behavior. If you'd like your company to have any kind of serious future, start firing them and hiring people that you might not think are all that super cool to hang with or who even play EVE, but are able to be employed in a business capacity and who work in an ethical manner. The point (every imaginable point) has been made by many others in this thread, but ... SERIOUSLY. Have you never worked for any other business or corporation before? Do you not understand that if you work for CCP, then EVE is really your JOB first and your hobby second? That you have an obligation to thousands of paying customers to behave yourselves? That if you don't you may not survive in the crowded MMO market? And not because your product stinks - it's great - but because you hired a bunch of a-holes and let them sink your company? Sad. If you worked for me and did anything comparable to the "misconduct" that has been exposed in the past, you'd have been fired yesterday. And when customers petition you with a complaint or query (as in why did a GM join my corp as a director etc) and you just delete it and ignore their attempts at communication - then what the **** do you think they are going to do? Yeah, they are going to raise hell and shut down your forums. Too bad. That's what gets your attention, and nothing else apparently. Fire "Sharkbait" for creating an appearance of impropriety, even if there wasn't one (and I'm not too sure that's established). Fire whoever deleted DS1's petition and tried to ignore the issue. Fire "Admiral Chugalug" or whoever the hell for acting unethically when he responded personally to his buddies complaint and banned an ISD member. Fire T20 for the whole T2 BP thing, even if you said you weren't going to because he's such a tight bro of yours and you'd feel bad seeing him at the big annual Iceland Whale Hunting Festival or Bjork concerts or whatever it is you people do up there. That would be a good start, a nice clean slate.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:24:00 - [1052] snip Play nice and don't flame. -Rauth
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:25:00 - [1053] I posted this as a reply to a now locked thread, so I'll repost part of it here. Sorry if it doesn't make sense at first: While there is nothing inherently wrong with Sharkbait's actions, it is suspicious, particularly because one wonders why a Dev would even need to join the corp in the first place to access the POS. Surely dev powers allow them access to anything in the game at any time. Plus if he really were doing something untoward, one would think he could use a DB query to find out what was there, if he really were trying to get information to pass on the DS1's enemies. Furthermore, suspicions are compounded when DS1's normal, proper response of filing a petition to learn why Sharkbait was there was immediately deleted with no response at all. Surely if he were doing normal maintenance on the POS there would have been a standard response of what he did and why. So, really, there is no one to blame for this than CCP. Like many things, it's not the crime, or possibility of a crime that gets you, it's the (attempted) cover up. Just look at Martha Stewart. Sharkbait may have done nothing wrong at all, but the way it was handled has (at least partly) caused this whole mess. CCP really blew the way they reacted to this part of the problem, and that is clearly their fault. One must ask why such illogical, almost panicky, steps were taken for what the news claims is a routine duty of CCP staff. And given the whole T20 episode, which is still fresh in many people's minds, it was in CCP's best interest not to draw attention to what could very probably be a non-issue. There is simply too little trust in the community, as this whole episode shows, to warrant CCP's handling of the matter. And that's also CCP's fault, as it's of their own making. Distrust was sewn in the community, and CCP has done little to mend that problem. And whether or not anything really happened that was in violation of game rules, many people have already left Eve because of the T20 scandal, and many more are likely to leave because of this one. And they won't return because they won't know that nothing really happened (if it didn't). This whole situation, no matter the outcome, will have bad consequences for Eve and CCP, both in the trust of the remaining playerbase, and those who quit and spread bad word of Eve to friends, and those who won't join the game because they read about possible misconduct on other sites. I hope this works out well for all parties, and we get a lengthy response about what happened and why, but the fact of the matter is that Eve is once again tainted, and that may never leave it, no matter what happens. I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
Sickari	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:26:00 - [1054] Originally by: Price Checking The **** just keeps comin' "For pure hilarity, I petitioned about GM policy concerning the allegations, that they should keep their trap shut until the investigation has been carried out. Guess who responded to my petition Yep. Edit: Yes that's right, dev conduct by GM Kutsu is being handled by.....GM Kutsu." That there is a GM handling a petition filed about his own inappropriate behaviour. thats soo sad...ccp justice style...judge/prosecutor/jury/defence lawyer...well in short..YOURE FKED! i have an ideaa for the ccp bullies and bob fanboys....ban everybody on this thread then go jita and ban everybody talkin bout this ..then go into private/corp chats and start baning everybody...and in the end go delve and ask bob to pay up
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:26:00 - [1055] Originally by: Bigby This is (IMO) just goonies and friends metagaming because they're losing the game and want to fsck CCP over hard before they all quit /canihaveyourstuff? A bob slave saying this? What a shock!
OoNoO	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:26:00 - [1056] mods have a signature lock - awesome feature tbfh (Your signature has been locked by the moderation team, please email [email protected] should you have any questions.) I have a question - why doesnt that work for my alts? :)
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:27:00 - [1057] Edited by: Krasnij Okjabre on 26/05/2007 07:27:34 Edited by: Krasnij Okjabre on 26/05/2007 07:25:44 Without sounding flippant, I think CCP should try and understand that the sense of trust between the provider of a service (CCP in this case) the subscriber (ourselves) is much like a fragile piece of glass. If it gets broken, it can be stuck back together, but the damage will forever be there for all to see. Not much more I can say than that but we all know where I'm coming from. Light is faster than sound... this is why some people appear bright until you speak to them...
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:28:00 - [1058] Random thought of the night... How much damn cash was spent on developing EVE Voice from Vivox that could have been spent on professional GMs or ISD personnel?
Biatchen	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:29:00 - [1059] Seriously, how can CCP employees remain neutral and unbiased if it only takes a quick MSN pop from their "Friend's" Dianobolic, Blacklight etc etc to get a problem solved? I mean if they are good buddies with BOB leadership don't tell us they wont answer the page to help BOB. Yet every other single alliance or player has to wait sometimes weeks for a response? Friends or no friends this MSN Crap is rotten to the core and BIASED as hell.
nlun Grumpy Old Men	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:30:00 - [1060] I believe 'the boss' of ,CCP Internal Affairs, wil give us, EVE players, a open (everybody can read it), honest and fear answer. The facts, as i can see now, 1) The ICD reporter did answer, while he was told to do not. 'no?' is responce!! no fact ---->I think a little more tolleration for someone who work 1,5 year and did some good reports should be nice. 2) The dev. did his work, -or the pos -or not locking BPO's. *Did someone in corps look at the shares in that 40 min?. You need shares to vote and lock. probably CCP can see that in corporation overview log or something like that.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:30:00 - [1061] FEAR NOT FRIENDS!!!! KIERON WILL BE ALONG SHORTLY TO FEED US SOME BOB SAVING LIES!!!
outlaw1968	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:32:00 - [1062] I would like to say maybe it is time for someone to take leagle action agians ccp and the exploits that have alloud because they do not care in the past since this is now the third time this has happened! I have stoped playing this game for some time because I was discusseded of what ccp alloud seems they havent learned anything!
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:32:00 - [1063] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 26/05/2007 07:31:40 Originally by: Stahlregen Unfortunately CCP so far has failed any attempt to police themselves to the point where it takes a threadnought and a downing of the forums on both occasions just to get CCP to even acknowledge any wrong doing. People are really ****ed and want blood, Like right this second. Seriously, If the backlash from the last cover-up was such an embarrassing (Yet somewhat hilarious) state of affairs i cannot wait for their response this time around. Yeah we already know BoB and CCP employees are cheaters, maybe not all of them but we know that its happened, this has already been confirmed when everyone last started throwing allegations around and the scapegoat owned up, yet for some reason was not punished. Yeah we also know that we don't have a Dev's admission of guilt to these new set of allegations, Because now CCP is meant to prove to us that they are in fact not completely and utterly corrupt. CCP's truthfulness and professionalism is now seriously doubted and you can expect to see more and more of these threads until the issue of transparency is solved by CCP once and for all. Or they at least manage to successfully convince us that they are actually trying to help, Which obviously is not working if we are having this problem, Again. Trying to disrupt a real life business to get your way in-game is sad.
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:33:00 - [1064] Edited by: OozoO on 26/05/2007 07:32:42 Originally by: umop 3pisdn FEAR NOT FRIENDS!!!! KIERON WILL BE ALONG SHORTLY TO FEED US SOME BOB SAVING LIES!!! there is no lies in ccp, there is no devs in bob, psyduck isnt for real and most important: and my signature hasnt been altered, it has always been like this Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
Sister Jenny	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:33:00 - [1065] I have a stupid idea , i know that , but why not make sure no1 can grow that big like BoB or goons ? lets put max numbers of players that can be in a corp or alliance ? Say like 100 players per corp max, and 1,000 players max for alliance. its just an idea
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:34:00 - [1066] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Trying to disrupt a real life business to get your way in-game is sad. Hope to see you at the fanfest stahl, i wonder if you still act ******** when there are real life consequences to it.. Is this a real-life threat?
Kaoyama Ameko	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:34:00 - [1067] This entire ordeal is the biggest pile of FUD I've seen in the EVE-O forums in a while.
De Bru	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:34:00 - [1068] It is such a shame to see sometihing like this happen time and time again and the lack of a trusable response. Does Iceland not have such a thing as trading standards or ombudsmen. For shame
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:36:00 - [1069] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Trying to disrupt a real life business to get your way in-game is sad. Hope to see you at the fanfest stahl, i wonder if you still act ******** when there are real life consequences to it.. Is this a real-life threat? Heh. And it begins to get ugly.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:37:00 - [1070] Originally by: Price Checking The **** just keeps comin' "For pure hilarity, I petitioned about GM policy concerning the allegations, that they should keep their trap shut until the investigation has been carried out. Guess who responded to my petition Yep. Edit: Yes that's right, dev conduct by GM Kutsu is being handled by.....GM Kutsu." That there is a GM handling a petition filed about his own inappropriate behaviour. Just to recap, because the hits keep on coming: - A corp in Goonswarm discovers that Sharkbait joined their corp, made himself director, then left after 20 minutes. Petitions regarding the issue were closed/deleted with no explanation offered. - A former ISD reporter came forward about an instance where a BoB member ordered him to leave a system, threatening to get his CCP buds on MSN to do something if he didn't. Said ISD reporter was almost instantly reprimanded in private channels, and later banned. Said ISD reporter also claims that many RP events involving valuable loot/rewards were rigged (an accusation that has been around for some time). This entire section is probably the most distressing, but also subject to the most bias (comes from a fired volunteer). - Lack of response from CCP to these issues prompts Goon threadnaught. Multiple characters are temp-banned, gagged in-game, and outright banned. Forums pulled down. - Forums return, with Ark's news post "addressing" the issue. Discussion limited to this thread. - Diabolic outright admits to having private communication access (such as MSN, see the ISD reporter incident) to devs/GMs in this thread, and says that it's Goons fault they aren't e-bffs with CCP. - After all the gagging on the issue, mere hours later GM Kutsu openly discusses his personal opinion in Jita local. When petitioned about how inappropriate this is, he himself responds to the petition and closes it. At best, the performance of CCP and all associated employees/volunteers has been incredibly unprofessional. At worst, all the tinfoilhattery turns out to be not so far off.
OoNoO	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:37:00 - [1071] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Trying to disrupt a real life business to get your way in-game is sad. Hope to see you at the fanfest stahl, i wonder if you still act ******** when there are real life consequences to it.. Is this a real-life threat? he was quick editing it (Your signature has been locked by the moderation team, please email [email protected] should you have any questions.) I have a question - why doesnt that work for my alts? :)
Biatchen	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:38:00 - [1072] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 26/05/2007 07:31:40 Originally by: Stahlregen Unfortunately CCP so far has failed any attempt to police themselves to the point where it takes a threadnought and a downing of the forums on both occasions just to get CCP to even acknowledge any wrong doing. People are really ****ed and want blood, Like right this second. Seriously, If the backlash from the last cover-up was such an embarrassing (Yet somewhat hilarious) state of affairs i cannot wait for their response this time around. Yeah we already know BoB and CCP employees are cheaters, maybe not all of them but we know that its happened, this has already been confirmed when everyone last started throwing allegations around and the scapegoat owned up, yet for some reason was not punished. Yeah we also know that we don't have a Dev's admission of guilt to these new set of allegations, Because now CCP is meant to prove to us that they are in fact not completely and utterly corrupt. CCP's truthfulness and professionalism is now seriously doubted and you can expect to see more and more of these threads until the issue of transparency is solved by CCP once and for all. Or they at least manage to successfully convince us that they are actually trying to help, Which obviously is not working if we are having this problem, Again. Trying to disrupt a real life business to get your way in-game is sad. Posting with a BOB Alt is Sadder.
Marcus TheDealer	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:38:00 - [1073] Why would an employee of CCP go and join a customer's corp without giving prior communication to that corporation? If it is indeed to fix a petition then it would make sense to inform them beforehand. CCP has said it was to fix a POS, interesting that last year this was posted to be a way of fixing something from the accused CCP person. Give CCP a few days to look at a good way of trying to answer this pretty stupid event. The most annoying part is, if it was indeed a legitimate task by the CCP employee, why is that employee not talking about it? If another CCP employee posts that it was to fix a petition then obviously someone told him. I look forward to reading about CCP's reasoning for this and would recommend that they have the CEO of the affected corporation post his/her reply after theirs. Then the public can make up their minds on whom to believe. Really do not think CCP employees should be allowed to hold high positions in this game
Biatchen	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:38:00 - [1074] Originally by: Kaoyama Ameko This entire ordeal is the biggest pile of FUD I've seen in the EVE-O forums in a while. Hi BOB Alt.
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:43:00 - [1075] the only thing that is missing is this bee image with the giant sting Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
Biatchen	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:43:00 - [1076] Edited by: Biatchen on 26/05/2007 07:44:19 Originally by: BuIIseye I find it funny that Goonswarm is releaseing this now that they are loseing the war, using it to max propaganda value and without remorse because they clearly said: Originally by: The Mittani Its either us or BoB that gets to ruin this game Actually it wouldnt matter if it was Goons-BOB-Outbreak-whoever. CCP need to put a real stop to this infection fast. Now to see if they are using the three days to investigate for real or using them to come up with a horseapples damage control plan. GOT MSN?
Sacrosanctus	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:44:00 - [1077] Originally by: BuIIseye I find it funny that Goonswarm is releaseing this now that they are loseing the war, using it to max propaganda value and without remorse because they clearly said: Originally by: The Mittani Its either us or BoB that gets to ruin this game Yeah Goonswarm totally waited until now to cause CCP to do these things!
BoeserBiber	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:46:00 - [1078] Quote: GOT MSN? why cant we all just get along ... and use icq?! sorry -Rauth , I'm drunk
PunkRoadkill	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:48:00 - [1079] ha, do you laugh or cry, i just don't know anymore
TOGAKURE Daisuke Occam's Razor Combine R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:49:00 - [1080] Edited by: TOGAKURE Daisuke on 26/05/2007 07:52:06 I think CCP board should really read thru this article from Wired magazine: The See-Through CEO So CCP, start get naked. Start opening up in a real way, not just polished and approved blogs and stuff. And those people that call for firings, this is not US. You can't fire people on spot in any EU country unless they pretty much directly do criminal stuff. Even if their contract says otherwise, the contract doesn't override the Law of the Country. No courts would easily rule this kind of stuff as any grounds of immediate contract termination, and I bet most staff in CCP has permanent contracts. It's really difficult to get rid of people after they get permanent contracts. Easiest way is to just pressurize the individual to do it himself but even in this case the individual has quite a lot of power to come back against the corp in courts and score his salary for many many months.
Gama24 Gallente No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:49:00 - [1081] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Trying to disrupt a real life business to get your way in-game is sad. Snip Inappropriate content. -Rauth snip Sooner or later, this bad blood is going to spill into real life. Its not a matter of "if" but "when", as EVE is progressing. I might get banned for stating the obvious but these episodes, because this is starting to look like a freakin bad soap, only make people choose the extreme sides of the issues and they will either give up on EVE or take it to another level. And that is a level I might not want to be around when it happens. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) g24
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:50:00 - [1082] Originally by: TOGAKURE Daisuke And those people that call for firings, this is not US. You can't fire people on spot in any EU country unless they pretty much directly do criminal stuff. Even if their contract says otherwise, the contract doesn't override the Law of the Country. I was unaware that Iceland is part of the EU... -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
BoeserBiber	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:51:00 - [1083] snip Images are not allowed. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected] sorry -Rauth , I'm drunk
Darkstar BP Caldari eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:52:00 - [1084] Originally by: Sergeant Spot This bears repeating: ================================= CCP has fired staff before for in game misconduct. Yep, you read that right. Yep, wasn't it Lemonde at the beginning of this year? Wasn't he given the choice between CCP and BoB, and he chose BoB? We're talking about Lemonde, the organizer of the Alliance Tournaments, in which your alliance scored multiple Motherships. We know that CCP normally condones having their peeps in BoB as long as they don't cheat or more accurately get caught cheating, so their must have been some misconduct in Lemonde's case. So big, they for once decided to force someone one out, without the public knowledge of his misdeeds. This begs the simple questions: What was the misconduct? Signature removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Kaoyama Ameko	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:54:00 - [1085] Originally by: Biatchen Originally by: Kaoyama Ameko This entire ordeal is the biggest pile of FUD I've seen in the EVE-O forums in a while. Hi BOB Alt. First time I post in these damn forums with my main and I get called an alt, great. Seriously, though. The allegations ARE pretty scary, but I gotta admit there is no evidence for anything beyond two screenshots (which are not really about the main issue here). FUD is a well-known tactic for dealing with competitors, and I wouldn't put it beyond goons to try and hurt BoB (and CCP) by using it. After all, their reputation honestly sucks after previous debacles. While I'm not saying that the claims are complete bull, I have to stress that no one on these forums should be taking them as truth. I mean, look at the damn structure of it. It starts off with one semi-scandalous thing (and they push us to their own conclusion with it, too...). Then, they pick something fairly unrelated, but with no evidence whatsoever, and make a big scandal out of that. Good job, Goons, you're being jerks again. I know you like being internet tough guys and causing a fuss, but seriously, quit it, that's enough. I'll totally salute you, though, if you get some evidence (some real stuff) for the latter claim. Oh, and BoB should get shut down regardless of all this. It's about time.
TOGAKURE Daisuke Occam's Razor Combine R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:54:00 - [1086] Originally by: Azerrad InExile I was unaware that Iceland is part of the EU... Pretty much the same.
neovita	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:54:00 - [1087] Originally by: "Biatchen" Posting with a BOB Alt is Sadder. And you are not a alt of someone? lol a hero here
Captain Havoc Caldari Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:55:00 - [1088] You know i really don't give a flying frack about this so long as the Dev in question personally explains what he was doing there and it's a reasonable explanation, also.. If this is a way to reduce player numbers i am all for it, i'm sick of all the stupid kids who have started playing this game in the last year, go back to WoW damn it!. Also, can i have your stuff :P
Takahashi Arran coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:56:00 - [1089] Originally by: Darkstar BP Yep, wasn't it Lemonde at the beginning of this year? Wasn't he given the choice between CCP and BoB, and he chose BoB? We're talking about Lemonde, the organizer of the Alliance Tournaments, in which your alliance scored multiple Motherships. We know that CCP normally condones having their peeps in BoB as long as they don't cheat or more accurately get caught cheating, so their must have been some misconduct in Lemonde's case. So big, they for once decided to force someone one out, without the public knowledge of his misdeeds. This begs the simple questions: What was the misconduct? LE Monde / Vegeta didn't cheat. He decided to leave his low end job at ccp and go back to school because the fact that vegeta / le monde was a terribly kept secret. He was given the choice between his job at ccp and his character an so he decided to go back and finish his education and not mess with his character. no tinfoil here people
JINX HSC Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:56:00 - [1090] Originally by: Uruko I still see goons posting in this topic why? If the game is so ebil and corrupt why haven¦t all you goons left it ages ago? Hey get on msn you noob - KLADDKAKA -
Sickari	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:58:00 - [1091] theres something "FISHY" in iceland! do u know what it is?
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:58:00 - [1092] Originally by: JINX HSC Hey get on msn you noob qft Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
dan 1 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:58:00 - [1093] Why would you create a game, only to play it yourself and cheat all day long with it? Really it sounds like a good deal, people actually pay money to play in your ******** game of hardcore cheating.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:58:00 - [1094] Edited by: Shinigami on 26/05/2007 07:58:08 I for one want to thank CCP for the excellent job they are doing in handling this situation. I'm sure they didn't want to be here on a holiday weekend. Keep up the good work! --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Darkstar BP Caldari eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:59:00 - [1095] Originally by: Takahashi Arran He was given the choice between his job at ccp and his character Why, as there is no official policy prohibiting having a job in CCP and having a character in BoB? Signature removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Kaoyama Ameko	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:59:00 - [1096] Originally by: dan 1 Why would you create a game, only to play it yourself and cheat all day long with it? Really it sounds like a good deal, people actually pay money to play in your ******** game of hardcore cheating. translation: "I'm helping I'm helping drr drr drr"
Rabb Darktide Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:00:00 - [1097] Disappointed... again... ---- Rabb Darktide Cirrius Technologies / O X I D E High Council
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:01:00 - [1098] Originally by: Fred0 And on it goes. Sort out your ******* employees ccp. Maybe you should start to run it professionally instead of hiring all these bloody players that work for less than minimum wages and will kill your game with their hobnobbing with other players releasing information and helping just so they can be cool for 5mins. Other games have died from this disease, I hope you realise the threat you are standing infront of and that nothing apart from total openness and some pretty serious banning will help you. That was a little bit harsh. I OBJECT! They may work for pennies - but is in a fabulous luxury living environment where all their needs are taken care of. And trained cor-don-bleur chefs rustles them up luxury sandwiches on tuesdays and fridays SKUNK
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:01:00 - [1099] Jacques: your news link in your GD post is still borked :) ---------
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:02:00 - [1100] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn snip response to moderated post.- Rauth Actually it was not, but since i know what it would look like i editted it right after, but you are too fast :) I meant that in real life you will have to argue with real facts when you're standing face to face with someone. No more anonymous trolling without consequences.
L4NC3R Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:02:00 - [1101] Ya know, I read....about 5 of the beginning pages and a few before this page and I have to say, I have played many MMO's over the years too. From FFXI to WoW to EQ (seems like all of them though :P) and I would have to say that Eve is most likely the best of them all. But after reading what has been going on, I might have to say screw Eve. I love this game, but if the head honchos are gonna kill the experience for us all, then I would like to leave. GM's and Dev's arent supposed to be a major part of the game. Friends or not, everything should be professional. I know this is what this whole thread is saying but geeze man, give us some news. Did you all ** up? Yes or No? Be truthful. Is there something going on? Yes or No. And are you all at least doing something about it? Thats all we ask. But if there are some answers in this 30 page long thread please link me and sorry for the **. But I would rather suck at a game then play a game with unbeatable cheaters that actually affect me. /end rant --------------------------------------------------
Sickari	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:02:00 - [1102] Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 26/05/2007 07:58:08 I for one want to thank CCP for the excellent job they are doing in handling this situation. I'm sure they didn't want to be here on a holiday weekend. Keep up the good work! the 12y old kids in bob are helping ccp cause again...keep it up..u both will play wow soon
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:03:00 - [1103] Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 26/05/2007 07:58:08 I for one want to thank CCP for the excellent job they are doing in handling this situation. I'm sure they didn't want to be here on a holiday weekend. Keep up the good work! They are here? SKUNK
BuIIseye Amarr Pax Amarria Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:03:00 - [1104] Originally by: Biatchen CCP need to put a real stop to this infection fast. Agreed, tbh neither BoB or Goonswarm are better in this whole mess and i'm happy for not being a member of any of their alliance. Its sad thou to see people threatening to leave the game because of a handfull of people playing this game at a metagaming level, from both sides.
Eron Lygera Gallente Sharded Awareness	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:03:00 - [1105] I've had it with all you "omg cheat devhax we must have truuuuuttttthhhh" crusaders. Understand that you are not entitled to anything, contrary to what you may think. I seriously hope that you will remove your characters, accounts and your complaining asses from this game and make it more fun for the rest of us. Stop playing seriously! That goes to the goonswarm guys, and s******dly especially. You are so biased towards conspiracy that your mind is seriously clouded. Leave this game. Please. Ps. Dont nerf WCS!
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:04:00 - [1106] Originally by: Kaoyama Ameko Originally by: Biatchen Originally by: Kaoyama Ameko This entire ordeal is the biggest pile of FUD I've seen in the EVE-O forums in a while. Hi BOB Alt. First time I post in these damn forums with my main and I get called an alt, great. Seriously, though. The allegations ARE pretty scary, but I gotta admit there is no evidence for anything beyond two screenshots (which are not really about the main issue here). FUD is a well-known tactic for dealing with competitors, and I wouldn't put it beyond goons to try and hurt BoB (and CCP) by using it. After all, their reputation honestly sucks after previous debacles. While I'm not saying that the claims are complete bull, I have to stress that no one on these forums should be taking them as truth. I mean, look at the damn structure of it. It starts off with one semi-scandalous thing (and they push us to their own conclusion with it, too...). Then, they pick something fairly unrelated, but with no evidence whatsoever, and make a big scandal out of that. Good job, Goons, you're being jerks again. I know you like being internet tough guys and causing a fuss, but seriously, quit it, that's enough. I'll totally salute you, though, if you get some evidence (some real stuff) for the latter claim. Oh, and BoB should get shut down regardless of all this. It's about time. Dear Kaoyana, there is more than enough proof and evidence. Evidence given by a dev's confession, multiply BoB less than smart allegations in this very thread and CCP behavior over this and previous matters. BoB guys are poor dellusioned kids who need to cheat to think they are good in something, which obviously they are not if they need to resort to cheating. The only feeling they should provoke is pity from this community, not even outrage. But CCP has no such excuse. They are a real world money making company and as such are liable for such absurdities.
Cramps Fungal Infection	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:04:00 - [1107] Originally by: TOGAKURE Daisuke And those people that call for firings, this is not US. You can't fire people on spot in any EU country unless they pretty much directly do criminal stuff. Even if their contract says otherwise, the contract doesn't override the Law of the Country. No courts would easily rule this kind of stuff as any grounds of immediate contract termination, and I bet most staff in CCP has permanent contracts. It's really difficult to get rid of people after they get permanent contracts. Breach of contract terms can constitute grounds for immediate termation, said "breach of contract" does not have to be a criminal act, and in the end it doesn't really matter if you're in the US or the EU, but I like how you managed to deliver a low blow to America in your post. Regardless, if you want to play on words, people can still be "let go" the nice way (i.e. not the immediate way) and surely there has to be a clause in CCP's contracts on staff interaction with the player base.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:04:00 - [1108] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 26/05/2007 07:58:08 I for one want to thank CCP for the excellent job they are doing in handling this situation. I'm sure they didn't want to be here on a holiday weekend. Keep up the good work! They are here? SKUNK I'm sure they are hard at work behind the scenes. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Kaoyama Ameko	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:05:00 - [1109] Originally by: L4NC3R Ya know, I read....about 5 of the beginning pages and a few before this page and I have to say, I have played many MMO's over the years too. From FFXI to WoW to EQ (seems like all of them though :P) and I would have to say that Eve is most likely the best of them all. But after reading what has been going on, I might have to say screw Eve. I love this game, but if the head honchos are gonna kill the experience for us all, then I would like to leave. GM's and Dev's arent supposed to be a major part of the game. Friends or not, everything should be professional. I know this is what this whole thread is saying but geeze man, give us some news. Did you all ** up? Yes or No? Be truthful. Is there something going on? Yes or No. And are you all at least doing something about it? Thats all we ask. But if there are some answers in this 30 page long thread please link me and sorry for the **. But I would rather suck at a game then play a game with unbeatable cheaters that actually affect me. /end rant FUD FUD FUD
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:05:00 - [1110] Originally by: Sickari Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 26/05/2007 07:58:08 I for one want to thank CCP for the excellent job they are doing in handling this situation. I'm sure they didn't want to be here on a holiday weekend. Keep up the good work! the 12y old kids in bob are helping ccp cause again...keep it up..u both will play wow soon The only 12 year olds come from GoonSwarm. So shoo.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:05:00 - [1111] read something interesting "rather emphasising that it was all for 'The Greater Good'." hit fuzz anyone?\ CCP did you lose your wife to someone not letting bob be the ultimate corp? and now they must be. and it's ok because you still make new stuff? and you fix more bugs? for the "greater good"?? Is CCP a cult?
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:06:00 - [1112] As a old eve player. I dont see this incident as a suprize. I rather see it missfortunate that CCP is in the position on making the hard dicision on how to address this kind of situation. LIke many have said the aproach means alot. What comes to lots of posts in this thread. I dont like ppl who try to fuel certain opinions. Id like people to be the judges them selves not based on some ones elses thinking of the matter. The network of ppl that surrounds a game like this is huge and naturally its unfortunate that this kind of incidents happen. But in the end we are all human we do mistakes and all. So who made the bigest mistake here.. I wont go throwing stones against anyone. Just trying to understand the underlying complexities in decision making regarding deveploment of the game it self. Its complex. I can see BOB as the evil theme as a very intriguing setting for a game play let the players unite against evil power etc. CCP transparency, talking about it, showing your cards and honesty overall. Playerbase emotional subject, rational personal view (is it possible), comprehending the scale developing a game of this magnitude, understanding human error is possible,
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:06:00 - [1113] So... who's going to FANFEST!!!!! HELL YEAH!! PARTY! Has bob been gagged again yet?
BoeserBiber	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:06:00 - [1114] s*****dly being censored?! tests* Do not troll in your signature and do not repost a signature that was removed by a moderator. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:07:00 - [1115] Edited by: Flaming Lemming on 26/05/2007 08:06:51 Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 26/05/2007 07:58:08 I for one want to thank CCP for the excellent job they are doing in handling this situation. I'm sure they didn't want to be here on a holiday weekend. Keep up the good work! They are here? SKUNK I'm sure they are hard at work behind the scenes. Whining on MSN are they? I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either. there's no such thing as bad press
Lith Fael Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:07:00 - [1116] Originally by: F'nog Plus if he really were doing something untoward, one would think he could use a DB query to find out what was there, if he really were trying to get information to pass on the DS1's enemies. Actually an out of game DB query would definitely raise flags, whereas a corp director accessing a pos through the in game interface is just another common thing that would get lost in the clutter... In other words as a means of cheating, a direct DB query would be more suspicious to anyone monitoring the logs. Note: Views expressed are my own and are no way a reflection of any corporation or alliance ties that may be involved.
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:07:00 - [1117] Originally by: BoeserBiber s*****dly being censored?! tests* haha Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
Necro EvilZombie North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:09:00 - [1118] kekekekekekekeke this thread rocks
Nox Aeterna	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:11:00 - [1119] Perhaps, someone could explain to me what the big deal is? I have read the open letter, and here are my observations. 1) The issue with a dev joining a corp is a non-issue. Logically, any malicious intent would have been better executed if the dev would have remained outside of the corp, and did his dirtywork there. Joining a corp, for any other reason than to fix a bug, simply looks too suspicious (as the current hysteria illustrates). No one is that stupid. 2) The ISD character. It is apparent from reading the chat logs, that he ignored ISD rules, and an instruction to leave system. Both are acts of insubordination...which is and should be sufficient grounds for termination from any company. 3) Rigged storylines. This is the only legitimate complaint as far as I can see it.
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:11:00 - [1120] Originally by: Eron Lygera I've had it with all you "omg cheat devhax we must have truuuuuttttthhhh" crusaders. Understand that you are not entitled to anything, contrary to what you may think. I seriously hope that you will remove your characters, accounts and your complaining asses from this game and make it more fun for the rest of us. Stop playing seriously! That goes to the goonswarm guys, and s******dly especially. You are so biased towards conspiracy that your mind is seriously clouded. Leave this game. Please. I'm so sorry, want my stuff?
Kaoyama Ameko	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:13:00 - [1121] Originally by: Nox Aeterna 2) The ISD character. It is apparent from reading the chat logs, that he ignored ISD rules, and an instruction to leave system. Both are acts of insubordination...which is and should be sufficient grounds for termination from any company. cough the instructions to leave system were from Bob cough
Thempress	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:14:00 - [1122] haha MASS HYSTERIA!!! This thread is so amusing. Bob's responses to it are even more funny. It'll be interesting to see the outcome of this.
Necro EvilZombie North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:14:00 - [1123] Originally by: Gneeznow Originally by: Eron Lygera I've had it with all you "omg cheat devhax we must have truuuuuttttthhhh" crusaders. Understand that you are not entitled to anything, contrary to what you may think. I seriously hope that you will remove your characters, accounts and your complaining asses from this game and make it more fun for the rest of us. Stop playing seriously! That goes to the goonswarm guys, and s******dly especially. You are so biased towards conspiracy that your mind is seriously clouded. Leave this game. Please. I'm so sorry, want my stuff? sure...
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:15:00 - [1124] Edited by: Plutoinum on 26/05/2007 08:16:52 What bothers me is that we, who didn't read what was going on yesterday, get no info what it's all about. Now I have to get those infos from the site that isn't to be mentioned again, which is hosted by a guy, who has still some beef with CCP. Guess all infos are colored by Goonswarm, who are surely more than happy to trigger a big dramabomb at this time in their war against BoB. CCP better comes out with the truth fast. Think I can't stand another few months with all this whining about devs+cheats again and people creating big stories about what might have happened and suddenly it becomes a fact for them and all that idiot stuff that was happening in the beginning of this year on the forums. ( Dunno, if the athmosphere gets worse and we see another dirty propaganda war on a 'meta-level', it's maybe time for me to get my CoV key now and relax there a bit, until the dust settles and Goons, BoBs etc. are done with their war and have found out, who is the top dog in EVE and things go back to normal. )
eeeweeezeee Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:15:00 - [1125] Edited by: eeeweeezeee on 26/05/2007 08:15:26 im on page 42! btw, global warming is a goon conspiracy too! so is the whole spoon concept. ok, mabey thats a bit harsh, but i just want to have a post on page 42 and cant think of anything constructive to say, because there isn't much constructive to say
Gerard Deneth	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:15:00 - [1126] Well, figured I'd throw in my .02 ISK. Won't say as much about some other issues, but the sheer b**yness about the fact that CCP orchestrates events is pretty, well SAD. Has no one here EVER played an RPG with pen and paper, and some overlording GM? No? Sad. Well, the basic deal is this: The PCs (that's you guys) go and do stuff. The GM has this overarching plot that he may want you guys to deal with (the standard parents slain by evil overlord yadda yadda) as the campaign progresses. Now, if he feels you're wandering away from this too far, he may begin to exert subtle and not so subtle controls to force you back. Important events my suddenly tie back to villains, you may find roads closed by avalanches, etc etc. As well, if you're fighting some monster that is just kicking your a, the GM may end up fudging some rolls here and there. He's got that screen thing, so you can't see that the critical hit he rolled has been turned into a miss, or that somehow an attack hit when it shouldn't have. But he makes those choices (Ideally anyhow) for the sake of player enjoyment and plot development. Guess what kids, CCP does the same. They just don't have a screen to hide behind, and when they do choose to fudge some things, they might not be doing it in quite as neat and invisible manner as possible. Sadly, the game itself forces them to do so. They can't fudge damage rolls on the sly, or make it so that a few ships get distracted and wander off somewhere. Or fall into a pit. Or anything else that a pen and pencil RP can do. As well, they've got this MASSIVE (or I presume they do anyhow) back story and intertwined plot that they'd verymuch like to get out there, a plot that I'll bet dollars to donuts has much to do with some improved hardware that may come out. Heck, it might bring something forward like actual faction warfare (IE this big war that's been steadily building up as time goes by). And we can only wonder, but at least realize that the GMs may have reasons they want certain RP factions to win. Anyhow, that's my .02 ISK. I'm not a stinking alt, I don't HAVE one, and I'm not involved with any CCP decision making crud. I'm just a old school paper and pencil GameMaster who's seen this drek before.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:16:00 - [1127] Originally by: Thempress haha MASS HYSTERIA!!! This thread is so amusing. Bob's responses to it are even more funny. It'll be interesting to see the outcome of this. That's what you goons are about huh, having 'fun' at the expense of others. go go goons!
Ashen Brarn Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:16:00 - [1128] This thread is awesome. Goonswarm take use their numbers to Digg/Slashdot because they don't understand the game. Even now, they're clinging onto an unsubstantiated account of someone who may or may not have been in CCP. The trouble with groupthink lads, is that it has to cater to the lowest common denominator. If this game was about flipping burgers, perhaps you'd have a chance. I'd pay per view of the CCP director jumping into the boxing ring with Lowtax. It'd be fun watching his face get caved in again.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:17:00 - [1129] no not this time this is somethign that started to simple and that they have admited to. it's in the news post. a GM did join a corp and take rights fixed something and then left. that GM did ignore tons of people form the corp trying to ask what was up. If he said. oh something was bugged I fixed it. instead of ignoring them. this would all be over. what were they expecting? I mean if you ignore players asking "Why were you the CEO of my corp?" then the **** is going to hit the fan. I don't know if the cheating is real or not. but some times you ask for it CCP, you just ask to be acused
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:17:00 - [1130] Originally by: Test84984949 Sorry Bob, your success in game will always have the dark shadow of cheating over it. The people that fight against you win in the end. Take over all of 0.0, doesn't really matter. You will always be known as the alliance that cheated/exploited their way to the top. This is true and it makes me a little sad for all of the members of BoB who ARE honest... probably the vast majority.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:20:00 - [1131] Originally by: Kaoyama Ameko Originally by: L4NC3R Ya know, I read....about 5 of the beginning pages and a few before this page and I have to say, I have played many MMO's over the years too. From FFXI to WoW to EQ (seems like all of them though :P) and I would have to say that Eve is most likely the best of them all. But after reading what has been going on, I might have to say screw Eve. I love this game, but if the head honchos are gonna kill the experience for us all, then I would like to leave. GM's and Dev's arent supposed to be a major part of the game. Friends or not, everything should be professional. I know this is what this whole thread is saying but geeze man, give us some news. Did you all ** up? Yes or No? Be truthful. Is there something going on? Yes or No. And are you all at least doing something about it? Thats all we ask. But if there are some answers in this 30 page long thread please link me and sorry for the **. But I would rather suck at a game then play a game with unbeatable cheaters that actually affect me. /end rant FUD FUD FUD WOAH! fud you you fuding fuder unnessasy that was just a player asking for help. they even said if they are wrong they are sry in advance. and you go off on them. bob alt I assume
Thempress Hyrule Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:21:00 - [1132] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Thempress haha MASS HYSTERIA!!! This thread is so amusing. Bob's responses to it are even more funny. It'll be interesting to see the outcome of this. That's what you goons are about huh, having 'fun' at the expense of others. go go goons! sue me i'm not goon
Nox Aeterna	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:21:00 - [1133] Originally by: Kaoyama Ameko Originally by: Nox Aeterna 2) The ISD character. It is apparent from reading the chat logs, that he ignored ISD rules, and an instruction to leave system. Both are acts of insubordination...which is and should be sufficient grounds for termination from any company. cough the instructions to leave system were from Bob cough Take a look at the open letter, where the posters were generous enough to post a convo. You can clearly see a CCP admin telling him to leave. Whether it was just or not, should have been addressed to that particular admin's superiors.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:24:00 - [1134] Originally by: Gerard Deneth Well, figured I'd throw in my .02 ISK. Won't say as much about some other issues, but the sheer b**yness about the fact that CCP orchestrates events is pretty, well SAD. Has no one here EVER played an RPG with pen and paper, and some overlording GM? No? Sad. Well, the basic deal is this: The PCs (that's you guys) go and do stuff. The GM has this overarching plot that he may want you guys to deal with (the standard parents slain by evil overlord yadda yadda) as the campaign progresses. Now, if he feels you're wandering away from this too far, he may begin to exert subtle and not so subtle controls to force you back. Important events my suddenly tie back to villains, you may find roads closed by avalanches, etc etc. As well, if you're fighting some monster that is just kicking your a, the GM may end up fudging some rolls here and there. He's got that screen thing, so you can't see that the critical hit he rolled has been turned into a miss, or that somehow an attack hit when it shouldn't have. But he makes those choices (Ideally anyhow) for the sake of player enjoyment and plot development. Guess what kids, CCP does the same. They just don't have a screen to hide behind, and when they do choose to fudge some things, they might not be doing it in quite as neat and invisible manner as possible. Sadly, the game itself forces them to do so. They can't fudge damage rolls on the sly, or make it so that a few ships get distracted and wander off somewhere. Or fall into a pit. Or anything else that a pen and pencil RP can do. As well, they've got this MASSIVE (or I presume they do anyhow) back story and intertwined plot that they'd verymuch like to get out there, a plot that I'll bet dollars to donuts has much to do with some improved hardware that may come out. Heck, it might bring something forward like actual faction warfare (IE this big war that's been steadily building up as time goes by). And we can only wonder, but at least realize that the GMs may have reasons they want certain RP factions to win. Anyhow, that's my .02 ISK. I'm not a stinking alt, I don't HAVE one, and I'm not involved with any CCP decision making crud. I'm just a old school paper and pencil GameMaster who's seen this drek before. right! but, have you ever played in a pen and paper where the GM plays one of the PC's? that is my only gripe oh and I ahve it made me want to hang my head in shame.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:25:00 - [1135] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 26/05/2007 08:29:10 Right. What did we do this time ? So, to recap the whole mess you idiots made of this so far: The sources: - disgruntled ex-volunteer with a mission - kugut-youknowwho - DS1 (we all know how well they hold up when there's an excuse to go tinfoil). The accusations: - ISD sucks and events are rigged (BoB did it !) - Sharbait infiltrated DS1 to spy (for BoB, duh) - BoB called a buddy in CCP on MSN/Skype/whatever to get 'disgruntled ex-volunteer with a mission' kicked out of ISD. My conclusions: - Events are probably played out with an end result in mind yes. I've always wondered how they dealt with the open- endedness and never quite got how that could ever work well for them. I don't really care tho, as events have next to no impact on the player-created arcs we are involved in. - hmm yes tinfoil to the rescue ! petitions deleted, peitions ignored, mails sent and not sent, whaahaa. So DS1 goes ballistic (the usual) and threadnought rears its head, ign etc. get informed (by way of MSN maybe ) and CCP are **** no matter what explanation they will give. Hullo thar ? How about giving them a chance to tell their side of it before employing the internet-weapons-of-mass-destruction ? - People from CCP/ISD/Q&A have friends. Some of them maybe use msn, and some of those may know people that aren't ISD/CCP/Q&A. Sometimes some actions of some people may or may not be discussed by some of the above with someone else on something like msn. There may be some result coming forward from said conversation, thus bypassing the regular channels, which isn't particularly smart imo no. But neither does it mean that it's corrupt. Remember who gave you this mud before you sling it. Again, wait for CCP, then whine, pillage and threaten them (not to mention accuse BoB yet again of whatever it is this time) - The threadnought was a up of epic proportions and way** premature, and is going to end up with a lot of people banned, and they should be glad if that's all CCP does to them. You don't do mass spamming with intent to disrupt services, period. Let alone without giving em a chance first. Chances involve waiting for more then two hours on an answer, capiche ? You're causing real damage here, without informing yourself correctly beforehand. That makes it your responsibility, wether CCP can force you to accept it or not. Some counter-tinfoil: How come the **** always starts flying on a friday eh ? Last day before the weekend, noone at the office at CCP to investigate and reply. In short: the tinfoil ball can gather momentum unchallenged for a full three days. How come it's always BoB supposedly behind it all ? We don't do events or RP, we are really not interested in DS1's cap ship yard in this way, there's alot of equally old and equally icelandic people in some notable other corporations and alliances that have been semi-involved with certain actions that lend themselves to tinfoilism. And finally, we'd win anyway, we don't need to do any of this to be better then you at Eve. /i Now, I cba to really take this whole mess seriously again and come out feeling dumber again while seeing the legion of ****s succeed in their mission to cause damage where none is warranted again**. So i'm not gooing to be following this debacle further. Enjoy your witchhunt, I don't quite get why you're not all already banned but eh, I'm not a dev am I. [center] Old blog
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:25:00 - [1136] Originally by: Inturist Using tactics - crash node eh ? Yes. BoB has been crashing nodes all day long, during ASCN/BoB war. I am glad you remember that. Oh wait, you were trying to imply that someone else was crashing nodes too?
King Fury Caldari Fury Corp.	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:26:00 - [1137] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. stop cheating dude, and it wouldnt have been necessary
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:27:00 - [1138] Originally by: Nox Aeterna Originally by: Kaoyama Ameko Originally by: Nox Aeterna 2) The ISD character. It is apparent from reading the chat logs, that he ignored ISD rules, and an instruction to leave system. Both are acts of insubordination...which is and should be sufficient grounds for termination from any company. cough the instructions to leave system were from Bob cough but then again It's the job of ISD members to sit 70km away and watch stuff. THIER JOB. maybe BoB couldn't cheat while an ISD member was watching? pint is, they do this all of the time. they are eyes . and you aren't suppose to able to tell someone whos is montering the nod of a 270 fleet battle to leave. THey are suppose to be there... that's what they do! Take a look at the open letter, where the posters were generous enough to post a convo. You can clearly see a CCP admin telling him to leave. Whether it was just or not, should have been addressed to that particular admin's superiors.
Gerard Deneth	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:28:00 - [1139] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Gerard Deneth Well, figured I'd throw in my .02 ISK. Won't say as much about some other issues, but the sheer b**yness about the fact that CCP orchestrates events is pretty, well SAD. Has no one here EVER played an RPG with pen and paper, and some overlording GM? No? Sad. Well, the basic deal is this: The PCs (that's you guys) go and do stuff. The GM has this overarching plot that he may want you guys to deal with (the standard parents slain by evil overlord yadda yadda) as the campaign progresses. Now, if he feels you're wandering away from this too far, he may begin to exert subtle and not so subtle controls to force you back. Important events my suddenly tie back to villains, you may find roads closed by avalanches, etc etc. As well, if you're fighting some monster that is just kicking your a, the GM may end up fudging some rolls here and there. He's got that screen thing, so you can't see that the critical hit he rolled has been turned into a miss, or that somehow an attack hit when it shouldn't have. But he makes those choices (Ideally anyhow) for the sake of player enjoyment and plot development. Guess what kids, CCP does the same. They just don't have a screen to hide behind, and when they do choose to fudge some things, they might not be doing it in quite as neat and invisible manner as possible. Sadly, the game itself forces them to do so. They can't fudge damage rolls on the sly, or make it so that a few ships get distracted and wander off somewhere. Or fall into a pit. Or anything else that a pen and pencil RP can do. As well, they've got this MASSIVE (or I presume they do anyhow) back story and intertwined plot that they'd verymuch like to get out there, a plot that I'll bet dollars to donuts has much to do with some improved hardware that may come out. Heck, it might bring something forward like actual faction warfare (IE this big war that's been steadily building up as time goes by). And we can only wonder, but at least realize that the GMs may have reasons they want certain RP factions to win. Anyhow, that's my .02 ISK. I'm not a stinking alt, I don't HAVE one, and I'm not involved with any CCP decision making crud. I'm just a old school paper and pencil GameMaster who's seen this drek before. right! but, have you ever played in a pen and paper where the GM plays one of the PC's? that is my only gripe oh and I ahve it made me want to hang my head in shame. As have I. On both sides of the fence. Dosen't change my arguments. Hell, having a GM secretly play as a PC can be useful for them shaping the plot. A little sneaky, but as said, CCP doesn't have the traditional methods of forcing plot congruity.
Ciras Shelby	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:28:00 - [1140] Originally by: Eron Lygera I've had it with all you "omg cheat devhax we must have truuuuuttttthhhh" crusaders. Understand that you are not entitled to anything, contrary to what you may think. I seriously hope that you will remove your characters, accounts and your complaining asses from this game and make it more fun for the rest of us. Stop playing seriously! That goes to the goonswarm guys, and s******dly especially. You are so biased towards conspiracy that your mind is seriously clouded. Leave this game. Please. Yes, let's marginalize the importance of integrity in this or any game and just not look into this any further. To seek the truth is just paranoia, let's just not ask any questions and accept the silence and deleted petitions as their having better things to do as we should. Lastly, if this game is corrupt there will be no NEED to ask people to leave - there will be EVE:EXODUS as in canceled subscriptions on a grand scale.
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:30:00 - [1141] Rod, noone accuses you of anything yet, just chill the **** out. - BH
TOGAKURE Daisuke Occam's Razor Combine R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:30:00 - [1142] Originally by: MotherMoon right! but, have you ever played in a pen and paper where the GM plays one of the PC's? Well, lets call this game big LARP because it's definitely more that than P&P. All GM's in LARPs I know are players themselves (works because there's like 10+ GM's...). I bet some poor wage-slave wrote a nice script for the event which the players try to torpedo from the first second. Honestly I don't like railroading/scripting the event myself. But I can also imagine in this kind if game you might have to do so (to code all the stuff in). In P&P it's much easier to let people do what they want to.
St Juste The Choir Eternal	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:30:00 - [1143] Hmmm... Its getting to the point where this reminds me of good old fashioned Tabloid Journalism style hysteria. So far it seems the 'proof' is the equivalent of a blurry paparazzi photo. Next up, lets attack some paediatricians!
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:31:00 - [1144] Oh My God .. again! "No, bad CCP! Don't touch that fire! It will burn you!" "But moooooooooooooooooooom!" .. Why do we even bother to logon? "to be honest it makes me wonder about the mental state of a person who would join a corp called Space Perverts and Forum warriors"
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:31:00 - [1145] "And finally, we'd win anyway, we don't need to do any of this to be better then you at Eve. /i Now, I cba to really take this whole mess seriously again and come out feeling dumber again while seeing the legion of *****s succeed in their mission to cause damage where none is warranted again. So i'm not gooing to be following this debacle further. Enjoy your witchhunt, I don't quite get why you're not all already banned but eh, I'm not a dev am I." wait... again???? did you just say that the whole free BPO's never happen? IT did happen!there was a dev blog someone got sry I can't stand how wrong all of this is. again?> again? again? again? shakes head
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:32:00 - [1146] Originally by: Beyond Horizon Rod, noone accuses you of anything yet, just chill the **** out. Try again.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:32:00 - [1147] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 26/05/2007 08:32:48 Why any non-sided-with-Bob player who play in 0.0 Alliances looks at GMs and think "They are against us" ? That is not normal. - edit - The GM players I talk about includes these "I wanna film your fleet guys, only this : who is the FC of your blob ?" ----- History is made by whinners Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
Necro EvilZombie North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:32:00 - [1148] quit posting with alts, all of you positive to me and negative, its really lame
Merc998	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:32:00 - [1149] So that I can be on a level playing field with certain other players can the GM's, ISD , and Devs please send me their MSN so I can circumvent the petition system that everyone else has to use and call in favours when I need too ---------------- Also I am going to start to Role Play soon , via the MSN can you tell me when you are going to give away another mothership on a RP arc so I can get everything ready to ensure I win it -------------- And BTW I would like to know where XXX's capital shipyards are hidden, could you just quickly log in as a director to their corps and see ( dont do a Database query as Internal affairs might spot that)
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:32:00 - [1150] Originally by: Nox Aeterna 2) The ISD character. It is apparent from reading the chat logs, that he ignored ISD rules, and an instruction to leave system. Both are acts of insubordination...which is and should be sufficient grounds for termination from any company. Well I don't think thats entirely true. If he was there on business, (because of a petition, etc) he needs to stay there to get his job done, a player shouldn't be able to tell a staff member to leave. And a staff member shouldn't have to explain his actions. Lets say an enemy of BOB filed an exploit petition (the guy thats in the pos thats being sieged), and that a BOB was using an exploit. The CCP staff have the right to be there to keep an eye on things. Logs tell them alot but somethings need to be witnessed first hand. Make Mining Better
capt robn0id Caldari Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:33:00 - [1151] Let me see if I can address the arguments and counter arguments. 1) DEvh4x omg joined our corp, gave himself director axs for 20 mins then left all without a word. 1 - retort) He was probably fixing a bugged pos...they do this all the time. sorry, there were no petitioned pos, the corp only had 3 and they all work fine. 2)Isd reporter banned because bob and co said so 2 - retort) The guy did bump the dread and should have left when told to if this bump caused any problems i'm sure it would have been petitioned. Getting banned without a chance to explain onesself, based totally on the msn messages sent by a regular player, is an odd result to this. I dont personally have msn contacts of CCP staf, and therefor, this is itself creates a skewed playing field irrespective of what goes on in this correspondence. 3) rp stuff 3-retort) who knows. I dont rp Now, until the facts actually come to light I dont think anyonew should make any grand statements however, as it stands now, none of these issues have been answered sufficiently
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:34:00 - [1152] Originally by: 1337tong What i am getting at, is that i doubt the ISD incident about Raehkan's so called story being true and in actual fact it was a total fabrication of the truth. he was probably banned for other malicious acts that were done by him (probably in your favor or RA's) and as a goonie holds a grudge against bob and now ccp for banning him. this gave him his just cause to write what he has in your "Open Letter to CCP" then again im wondering if he even wrote it at all maybe it was another member who thought it would be a good idea to try and attack BOB through discrediting CCP even more Wtf? "I doubt... in actual fact it was total fabrication... he was probably banned... probably in your favor... im wondering... all maybe..." You bring pain. Please, don't post. Ever again.
Kaoyama Ameko	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:35:00 - [1153] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Kaoyama Ameko Originally by: L4NC3R Ya know, I read....about 5 of the beginning pages and a few before this page and I have to say, I have played many MMO's over the years too. From FFXI to WoW to EQ (seems like all of them though :P) and I would have to say that Eve is most likely the best of them all. But after reading what has been going on, I might have to say screw Eve. I love this game, but if the head honchos are gonna kill the experience for us all, then I would like to leave. GM's and Dev's arent supposed to be a major part of the game. Friends or not, everything should be professional. I know this is what this whole thread is saying but geeze man, give us some news. Did you all ** up? Yes or No? Be truthful. Is there something going on? Yes or No. And are you all at least doing something about it? Thats all we ask. But if there are some answers in this 30 page long thread please link me and sorry for the **. But I would rather suck at a game then play a game with unbeatable cheaters that actually affect me. /end rant FUD FUD FUD WOAH! fud you you fuding fuder unnessasy that was just a player asking for help. they even said if they are wrong they are sry in advance. and you go off on them. bob alt I assume erm, FUD = Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. I'm not a BoB alt, I'm accusing GoonSwarm of using FUD (a particularly cheap way to go after an opponent).
Skyson Teelf	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:36:00 - [1154] The problem is that NOTHING will be done about this except for it being swept under a rug. As a previous poster said, it's gonna get locked and possibly deleted. Its all just rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble-rabble and of course everyone hates that. So what is going to be done? See first sentence. NOTHING. And for everyone else, just fuggedaboutit cause if it gets 'fixed' its as good as taking your kid to the petting zoo for a check up. WORTHLESS. Sorry goonswarm for the accusations of trolling and sorry (legitimate role playing) BoB players for the storm created by this. May this game R.I.P.
Ian Logalus 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:36:00 - [1155] Haven't read a single post in this topic I will have to agree with all the BoB people before me, since I'm a bob pet DUH!. In the time I had to judge sources for good information I have come up with realy weird stories which were true or realy normal stories which were all made up. The way this is handed to CCP is not the way it should have been done. I have had a ISD member join a corp of my chars as well to check some stuff out which was stuck, it's nothing new at all. What do you want, a stuck BPO/bugged POS for instance or someone helping you out asap even if he has to join your corp. I haven't read the full open letter yet either but it wouldn't be the first made up/twisted story coming from goons. I have heared loads of stories about goon buying isk by selling GTC to RA in mass, but still I don't believe that why would I believe those people which have been whining and petitioning their opponents for every small thing over and over again in the past when they try to 'bust' another CCP employe or volunteer. GL with solving this 'issue' CCP. I have full trust in what you do (besides fixxing the drone interface :P ) and hope you can take care of this in a propper way. may it be banning players or kicking a employee in the butt.
suza Prison Break Inc. FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:37:00 - [1156] Let us not forget that this is not the first time that solid accusations have been made regarding developer/gm relationships with BoB. Back to the days of the ASCN wars, questions about how BoB member accounts were able to by-pass the login throuttle process when nodes collapsed was asked. Only someone with a CCP registered IP is able to do this, not a complete allience. Also about how system wide pos's suddenly offline etc. With any game where developers/gms play a certain amount of fixing happens, dropping epic armour in wow, a faction ship in eve etc. It does no harm and to a certain degree is a perk for the hours they put in. What has happened here is where it has simply got out of hand. There is clearly a culture with some in CCP that "you can do what you want", however when you open your doors to the paying customer that is not totally so. GM's and developers need to step out of the game for a couple of months, play on the sisi server spawning themselves titans to play with and let the player base solve the situation. What that means for BoB having to for once fight on an equal footing, well anyone can guess. - Fly Hard, Fly fast for tomorrow is another day for Killing!
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:38:00 - [1157] Originally by: TOGAKURE Daisuke Originally by: MotherMoon right! but, have you ever played in a pen and paper where the GM plays one of the PC's? Well, lets call this game big LARP because it's definitely more that than P&P. All GM's in LARPs I know are players themselves (works because there's like 10+ GM's...). I bet some poor wage-slave wrote a nice script for the event which the players try to torpedo from the first second. Honestly I don't like railroading/scripting the event myself. But I can also imagine in this kind if game you might have to do so (to code all the stuff in). In P&P it's much easier to let people do what they want to. ah but this is not a larp it's a PC game and this is not about events. it's about real player sov and losses. the same thing that makes EvE great makes the GM's effecting something that much wrose. when you lose a titan while it's building it's gone. you don't respawn. Lets say the Gm wasn't cheating. he is still playing for a corp that is on good terms with bob. he is still trying to fix a buged POS Thus he will see everything being built in the POS wether he likes it or not he now has information that he could use unfairly because he is playing a GM and PC And because that POS will effect his corp it must be hard to not tell because the loss of ships and mods is real
Brain Sweep	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:38:00 - [1158] NOOBs alt speaking. 1. Since u pay EVE in reall money so u can say it is Real Life. Also here a lot of people make rl money selling isk or EVE time codes. 2. Reall money -> Reall life -> Realltime = EVE 3. CCP allows ingame alt characters spying, stealing etc...(our small corp was allready infested :) i was not mad at the guy i told him Good game for it since as u all say its the part of the game. 4. SO i dont see the problem with b..., g...,or any other alliance alts join CCP and spy, help or ... i think it should be done more often also. EVE is RL. Only logical solution i see on these issues is make EVE free game
PC5 ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:38:00 - [1159] Edited by: PC5 on 26/05/2007 08:39:50 Nice, really nice and im not suprised. Opinion will follow. Tell me how should i trust now that CCP is good company and BoB dosent have special rights and 'powers'? Nothing will explain that. Dianabolic can work hard in this thread, responding, saying his stuff but it dosent change much, except that we know he have to push that reply button a lot. At last i have good comedy show. Maybe if i would be one of pets i will say same thing as Xelas guy, something like 'i dont see anything wrong here...' Where are we heading with such crap ingame? Edit : "No, bad CCP! Don't touch that fire! It will burn you!" "But moooooooooooooooooooom!" Thats funny, id like to see some movie about it! :D
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:39:00 - [1160] Originally by: capt robn0id Let me see if I can address the arguments and counter arguments. 1) DEvh4x omg joined our corp, gave himself director axs for 20 mins then left all without a word. 1 - retort) He was probably fixing a bugged pos...they do this all the time. sorry, there were no petitioned pos, the corp only had 3 and they all work fine. 2)Isd reporter banned because bob and co said so 2 - retort) The guy did bump the dread and should have left when told to if this bump caused any problems i'm sure it would have been petitioned. Getting banned without a chance to explain onesself, based totally on the msn messages sent by a regular player, is an odd result to this. I dont personally have msn contacts of CCP staf, and therefor, this is itself creates a skewed playing field irrespective of what goes on in this correspondence. 3) rp stuff 3-retort) who knows. I dont rp Now, until the facts actually come to light I dont think anyonew should make any grand statements however, as it stands now, none of these issues have been answered sufficiently I think everyone (except some enemies of bob) is getting tired of the attemped wannabe drama bombs by goonswarm. The timing of their open letter suggests they are having a hard time fighting the war in-game.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:41:00 - [1161] Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/05/2007 08:40:35 erm, FUD = Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. I'm not a BoB alt, I'm accusing GoonSwarm of using FUD (a particularly cheap way to go after an opponent). haha ...ops. hides lets jusat edit those 2 posts out :P
Valan	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:43:00 - [1162] I've come to the conclusion Goons, BoB and CCP between them are doing their best to wreck this game for everyone else. IF CCP have screwed up again can they really admit it after last time? Just have to wait and see. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:43:00 - [1163] Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. How would you know what? Oh wait...
FatHed Eye of the Abyss	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:45:00 - [1164] For those of you still not understanding the problem. Ignore the petition and POS issue. Ignore the events issue. Ignore all the thoughts of better spawns in BoB space. Ignore the fact that CCP has friends in corporations. Ignore the fact that they will use their friends to help test things before they are deployed. The only issue, is the abuse of the friendship to accomplish whatever task you wanted to at the time. It's not about reporting bugs via MSN, nor is it about asking for advice from the people who made the game. It's about abusing that relationship. Sure, the other issues compound this problem, but this is the main issue, and sadly, it's the very players telling everyone to shut up, that confirmed this.
Gerard Deneth	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:47:00 - [1165] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Invidious Malinigvious any proof? You know your idiot corp members have petitioned him about 10 times aleady. How would you know what? Oh wait... lol lol wonderful catch I think bob and goons should stop posting they are boht just digging deeper holes I say we get a proper faction war: Get either the Ammar, Caldari, or whoever's nearest to em and have them conquer BOB space for their own empires :D
PriestWithKnives	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:47:00 - [1166] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley I think everyone (except some enemies of bob) is getting tired of the attemped wannabe drama bombs by goonswarm. The timing of their open letter suggests they are having a hard time fighting the war in-game. Yes because you know the last time that goons brought up drama nothing happened and everything was right with the world...oh wait...
Thor Payne ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:47:00 - [1167] Originally by: Charleton Heston So, what about the more relevant question, how BOB got a CCP employee to intervein in an ISD doing his job within a minute, and then subsequently fired? Because that is a lot more important than the GM joining and leaving a corp. Proof? Oh that's right. There is no proof...
Vladt	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:48:00 - [1168] another T20 ? Well guess what they will cover it up as the last time. They will close the Thread if the counter hits 100 and Kieron urges us to write "personal" to him and that will be the end to it. T20 was a no-no and that incendent now doesnt help either, me as a player seems to be only a "moneypart" in the game , if Im joing a differnt Party then the well beloved BOB Party , i will see and expirience all kind of Problems as a lot of the GM seems to have STRONG feelings for the BOB site. As a money spending player I dont like that , it is like the referee of a game is in a fanclub of one of the teams ! So if the GM want to play there BOB - EVe - Game, do it , but keep in mind that you NEED the others for your play and that they are "upset" ( so much that the server went down of the forums post !? ) CCP Sort it out or you have a critical buisness related Problem on your Hand !! I would urge CCP to do "Press Conference" like in RL, there is need of information and the time is ticking, the T20 Incident made already headlights on other IT Sites .....
HordeZla Domination.	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:49:00 - [1169] EVE comunity needs to grow TBH
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:49:00 - [1170] Originally by: Valan I've come to the conclusion Goons, BoB and CCP between them are doing their best to wreck this game for everyone else. This is the core point of this entire mess. Since these three groups seem to be in bed together, and constitute a large portion (?) of activity in the game right now... us little people are the ones sitting on the sidelines wondering if the entire game is corrupt and worth playing. CCP needs to realize that they are very quickly losing street cred (Digg, Slashdot, IGN) over crap like this. I know of 4 co-workers that will not even look at this game because of the bad press it is getting, both last time and this time. I know 5 players who have left because of events like this, specifically. If crap like this keeps happening, it wouldn't be unthinkable that people will start leaving in droves... if they aren't already.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:50:00 - [1171] Having MSN at work is not normal. I repeat : being able to chat with buddies at work is not normal. When at work you must work, period. When at house you can do whatever you want. ----- History is made by whinners Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:50:00 - [1172] Originally by: BuIIseye Originally by: Biatchen CCP need to put a real stop to this infection fast. Agreed, tbh neither BoB or Goonswarm are better in this whole mess and i'm happy for not being a member of any of their alliance. Its sad thou to see people threatening to leave the game because of a handfull of people playing this game at a metagaming level, from both sides. They are leaving, of course, not due to the actions of players as much as the alleged actions of the god's of the game. Current alligations are unproven - and being a friday night and many will be ****ed i would urge people to wait a few days afore burning their clones. In my opinion the real questions are: Is dev misconduct the new Mo0? What is this doing to the noob revenue stream? Is CCP sharkbait involved in freighter ganking at any level? These should be looked into IMMEDITALY SKUNK
Eve Innovative Eve Innovative Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:50:00 - [1173] EVE is just a game! I play EVE to have a good time with friends and have a little R&R after a ****ty day at work. I think most players are going to cheat if they have a chance of getting away with it.... scammers, exploiters, isk sellers, isk buyers and others. Why should EVE be any different than other games. This "special line to our FRIENDS" is just a new version. But I do think that it is the best I have seen so far My question is, how do I get one too
Trac3rt GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:50:00 - [1174] The problem is that BoB have an unfair advantage by having direct contact with the DEVs, who appear quite willing to bend to their will. Something no other group has. If BoB has a problem in-game, they get on MSN and ask whats up directly, anyone else has their petitions deleted, forum threads deleted within seconds, and steonwalled at every turn by those same Devs - how is this even remotely fair? If you consider the devs as BoBs friends (which has been stated by BoB), you have the following situation occur: BoBs friend joins your corp, gives themselves Directorship, then leaves and deletes almost all logs showing they were there without any invitation or explanation. Do you trust them? Of course not! I don't mind the Devs having in-game friends, but those friends should NEVER be allowed to know that the character is actually a Dev. Call us the Tinfoil hat brigate all you want, but we have a past precedent of currption and current admission of guilt from BoB members claiming they have a direct MSN hotline to the Devs. Frankly this stinks, and CCP should really clean up their act. ___
Helmut 314 Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:50:00 - [1175] This is all so sad. Did you really not learn anything from the t20 corruption scandal ? ________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
Frabala Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:50:00 - [1176] Don't know if it's already posted, but this admiral whatever is the same guy who was on site of D2's Titan kill minutes after the kill, congratulating everyone involved. Screen Thread
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:51:00 - [1177] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 26/05/2007 08:50:54 Originally by: Vaeldan Athargan Originally by: Valan I've come to the conclusion Goons, BoB and CCP between them are doing their best to wreck this game for everyone else. This is the core point of this entire mess. Since these three groups seem to be in bed together, and constitute a large portion (?) of activity in the game right now... us little people are the ones sitting on the sidelines wondering if the entire game is corrupt and worth playing. CCP needs to realize that they are very quickly losing street cred (Digg, Slashdot, IGN) over crap like this. I know of 4 co-workers that will not even look at this game because of the bad press it is getting, both last time and this time. I know 5 players who have left because of events like this, specifically. If crap like this keeps happening, it wouldn't be unthinkable that people will start leaving in droves... if they aren't already. +1 - edit - I know 2 guys that left because of the first problem. Also I know 2 other guys that don't join because of the first problem. ----- History is made by whinners Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:54:00 - [1178] Originally by: Frabala Don't know if it's already posted, but this admiral whatever is the same guy who was on site of D2's Titan kill minutes after the kill, congratulating everyone involved. Screen Thread oh god creepy
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:54:00 - [1179] Originally by: Frabala Don't know if it's already posted, but this admiral whatever is the same guy who was on site of D2's Titan kill minutes after the kill, congratulating everyone involved. Screen Thread Well, CCP now I'll ask blood. ----- History is made by whinners Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
Shme Fun Inc	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:54:00 - [1180] CCP needs to retract all Devs, GMs and its employees from participating in any unsanctioned alliance or corp. That is, they can only be members of CCP corps or alliances, not anyone elses; thus allowing them to take part in the game at a transperant level for their testing and enjoyment, thus limiting possible impacts on the game we have seen. Although this is but a game and some might think we taking this far too seriously, you must think about the time and effect that people have put into the game in order to establish themselves. It is very hard to have this all swept aside in a matter of moments cause one group of people are not playing the game but rather the dynamics of the game. It's just bloody unprofessional CCP, surely you must see this? I'll try put it another way, any real gamer that CCP Devs, GMs or Employees has directly or indirectly helped in the past will now have less respect for the company than before the event. You have compromised yourselves and this needs to be fixed or nothing you do will be taken seriously, just known as some chumps from Iceland that had a great game but couldn't help themselves. Thats about as plain as I can make it.
jonfr Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:56:00 - [1181] CCP needs to do some serious security overhaul and patching. Under a new name and new look.
Captain Howdy001	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:57:00 - [1182] lol i read a lot of this and i don't see what the gm did that made every one mad. just what did he do?
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:57:00 - [1183] Originally by: Trac3rt The problem is that BoB have an unfair advantage by having direct contact with the DEVs, who appear quite willing to bend to their will. Something no other group has. If BoB has a problem in-game, they get on MSN and ask whats up directly, anyone else has their petitions deleted, forum threads deleted within seconds, and steonwalled at every turn by those same Devs - how is this even remotely fair? If you consider the devs as BoBs friends (which has been stated by BoB), you have the following situation occur: BoBs friend joins your corp, gives themselves Directorship, then leaves and deletes almost all logs showing they were there without any invitation or explanation. Do you trust them? Of course not! I don't mind the Devs having in-game friends, but those friends should NEVER be allowed to know that the character is actually a Dev. Call us the Tinfoil hat brigate all you want, but we have a past precedent of currption and current admission of guilt from BoB members claiming they have a direct MSN hotline to the Devs. Frankly this stinks, and CCP should really clean up their act. The problem lies with people like you and the people in Goonswarm. People that distrust everyone and everything that might influence their way of playing in some way. You won't stop until everything goes your way, it does not matter if you're right or wrong you're just doing it for the lulz. That's the real problem in this game.
Malloc Memrel	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:00:00 - [1184] This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase.
Mel Nalsek	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:01:00 - [1185] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Frabala Don't know if it's already posted, but this admiral whatever is the same guy who was on site of D2's Titan kill minutes after the kill, congratulating everyone involved. Screen Thread oh god creepy Wow... Just... wow. That's quite a coincidence.
Drahcir Nasom Independent Manufacturers	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:02:00 - [1186] Originally by: sableye Originally by: luminoll fraternization between CCP employees and players should not be allowed and strictly enforced. This policy would have avoided this. LOL thats crazy thats liek if you work at sup[ermarket you can never be friends with any of the customers. I used to work at a supermarket, and one of the rules they had was that checkout staff were specifically banned from serving their friends and relatives. In the case that it was unavoidable for a member of checkout staff to serve a friend or relative then a supervisor had to be present to check that nothing untoward was going on. I have a friend (a former Eve player and a former member of my corp in fact) who works in a call centre for a major utility company here in the UK, a company of which I am a customer. He told me that if he answered the phone to me when I called the company, he would immediately have to transfer me to another member of staff as he was not allowed to process my call. A colleague of mine at work, her sister works in the local branch of the bank my company uses. If my colleague goes into the bank for any reason be it personal or for our company, her sister is not allowed to serve her. These are what is generally known as CONFLICTS OF INTEREST and most companies have rules regarding avoiding them, it appears however that CCP do not. Drahcir
doyoulikemytightsweater	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:02:00 - [1187] Just in a nutshell - can anyone explain what exactly really happened ? I ve tried reading through the thread but couldnt find it - well, I m still reading but curious as I am I d like to know now :o)
Thor Payne ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:03:00 - [1188] Originally by: Chalana Arroy This is free advice CCP. You, as a company, need to get to the bottom of this and answer these allegations NOW, truthfully, and in a manner that assures your playerbase that problems like T20 won't happen again. I work in a job that requires me to deal with other people's crises. The worst thing you can do is let this problem fester over the weekend, stonewall it, or have low-level staff (as has already happened in this thread) giving out answers that don't answer the questions. Bad news isn't like wine. It doesn't get better with age. The longer your players wait without a definitive answer from someone like Keiron, who has enough invested in the game that we can be sure he isn't playing for one side or another in a little internet spaceship wargame, the worse this will get. You're going to be slashdotted soon if you haven't been already. And it will get further than that if you don't solve these problems. These allegations may have a perfectly reasonable explanation, but whether they do or not CCP as a company needs to answer them sooner, rather than later. It takes time to look through allegations like this. CCP has clearly stated this in the first post of this thread. After reading the first 3 pages of this thread I see alot of people asking why it has only been the Darkstar thing that has been adressed so far. The answer, obviously, is because it is the only thing that doesn't take alot of time to look into. Why do people have a problem with letting CCP look into this PROBERLY before they make a statement about it?
FatHed Eye of the Abyss	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:03:00 - [1189] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Trac3rt The problem is that BoB have an unfair advantage by having direct contact with the DEVs, who appear quite willing to bend to their will. Something no other group has. If BoB has a problem in-game, they get on MSN and ask whats up directly, anyone else has their petitions deleted, forum threads deleted within seconds, and steonwalled at every turn by those same Devs - how is this even remotely fair? If you consider the devs as BoBs friends (which has been stated by BoB), you have the following situation occur: BoBs friend joins your corp, gives themselves Directorship, then leaves and deletes almost all logs showing they were there without any invitation or explanation. Do you trust them? Of course not! I don't mind the Devs having in-game friends, but those friends should NEVER be allowed to know that the character is actually a Dev. Call us the Tinfoil hat brigate all you want, but we have a past precedent of currption and current admission of guilt from BoB members claiming they have a direct MSN hotline to the Devs. Frankly this stinks, and CCP should really clean up their act. The problem lies with people like you and the people in Goonswarm. People that distrust everyone and everything that might influence their way of playing in some way. You won't stop until everything goes your way, it does not matter if you're right or wrong you're just doing it for the lulz. That's the real problem in this game. That really makes no sense. So, let me get this straight. You would gladly pay to play a game, use WoW for instance, and spend hours raiding each week, multiple times in a week. Then, you finally get all this epic loot, and your standing in town, and some other player, that started before, and for some reason he didn't do the instances, is handed the same set of epic loot as yours by a developer? And you think that is a system we should trust? That's the problem? Our lack of trust? Your right, CCP had it, and they threw it away to help their friends have more toys.
Yesh	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:04:00 - [1190] Is there a link to CCP's internal investigation procedures? If not would CCP be willing to publish them so we can all see how they go about addressing these problems and what action they should take?
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:06:00 - [1191] Originally by: doyoulikemytightsweater Just in a nutshell - can anyone explain what exactly really happened ? I ve tried reading through the thread but couldnt find it - well, I m still reading but curious as I am I d like to know now :o) A GM made himself the CEO of darksatr to Fix a buggy POS he then quit a few mins later and didn't answer any of the CEOs or players form darkstar going "wait, what? why was he our CEO? while this would be all fine because he is a GM, he is also a PC. and thus it's the same as PC going into your corp and getting full reign. Darkstars hidden capital building POS is now no longer hidden to one dev/Gm at least. will he tell bob? or will there be more twists??
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:06:00 - [1192] Originally by: Sen Xia Originally by: Bob Socko If it was just to fix a POS, he would have let the CEO know. If he really did forget, it all could have been cleared up by responding to the petition - rather than deleting the petition outright. I think there is another big lesson to be learned here. The only reason goons had to blitz the forums is because CCP has shown us we have no other viable ways to make these issues heard. If people want this behavior to stop, then CCP needs to figure out a better way to handle its PR disasters that doesn't involve deleting threads and disabling forums. I call bull** on you. Did you try and Email Keiron? Or the IA department? Did you try anything other then being the selfish *****s GS is known to be? Or did you post a thread, not get it answered the way you want, and attempt to bring down the forums like you folks have in other games as well, hmm cybernations, Astroempires, any others? __________________________________________
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:07:00 - [1193] Originally by: Captain Howdy001 will some one please post what happend! It has been posted and discussed/explained ad nauseum. Read the thread for yourself.
Jargoon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:08:00 - [1194] Edited by: Jargoon on 26/05/2007 09:06:55 Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. This is an excellent post, and if your irl nickname is snip Don't use racial epithets. -Rauth then sup brah
FatHed Eye of the Abyss	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:08:00 - [1195] Originally by: Thempress This thread is just a tool in taming the pathetic herd that is the community. It won't make any difference for the players. Yeah, cause no on that reads these boards plays the game. Yeah, that makes sense.
Aries Acheron Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:08:00 - [1196] Originally by: Malloc Memrel (I used to work for Blizz, other completely random stuff... Sorry. But people on the Internet's qualifications are automatically suspect, and using that to establish one's authority is very unreliable. It is true however, that conflicts of interest must be anticipated and prevented. Question: Was Orange Species joking about 'having Bob on the MSN'? Anyone have any evidence aside from an off-hand remark he made? ~~~ Action! Suspense! Jita! Eve Tribune
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:09:00 - [1197] Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. QFT. It's unprofessional, unconscionable, unbelieveable. "Have to know how to play the game" is the biggest crock ever. No other game devs I know think this is anything other than madness and a path to ruin. Human beings are fallable, "power corrupts..." and all that. ---
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:09:00 - [1198] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 26/05/2007 09:11:46 Originally by: FatHed Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Trac3rt The problem is that BoB have an unfair advantage by having direct contact with the DEVs, who appear quite willing to bend to their will. Something no other group has. If BoB has a problem in-game, they get on MSN and ask whats up directly, anyone else has their petitions deleted, forum threads deleted within seconds, and steonwalled at every turn by those same Devs - how is this even remotely fair? If you consider the devs as BoBs friends (which has been stated by BoB), you have the following situation occur: BoBs friend joins your corp, gives themselves Directorship, then leaves and deletes almost all logs showing they were there without any invitation or explanation. Do you trust them? Of course not! I don't mind the Devs having in-game friends, but those friends should NEVER be allowed to know that the character is actually a Dev. Call us the Tinfoil hat brigate all you want, but we have a past precedent of currption and current admission of guilt from BoB members claiming they have a direct MSN hotline to the Devs. Frankly this stinks, and CCP should really clean up their act. The problem lies with people like you and the people in Goonswarm. People that distrust everyone and everything that might influence their way of playing in some way. You won't stop until everything goes your way, it does not matter if you're right or wrong you're just doing it for the lulz. That's the real problem in this game. That really makes no sense. So, let me get this straight. You would gladly pay to play a game, use WoW for instance, and spend hours raiding each week, multiple times in a week. Then, you finally get all this epic loot, and your standing in town, and some other player, that started before, and for some reason he didn't do the instances, is handed the same set of epic loot as yours by a developer? And you think that is a system we should trust? That's the problem? Our lack of trust? Your right, CCP had it, and they threw it away to help their friends have more toys. They never had the trust, CCP should be trusted in doing the right thing (which they are). Just petition, or maby even an open letter. Now it's forum bombs, spam, drama and other lame tactics. No sympathy points there. edit to prove point: Originally by: Sen Xia I think there is another big lesson to be learned here. The only reason goons had to blitz the forums is because CCP has shown us we have no other viable ways to make these issues heard. If people want this behavior to stop, then CCP needs to figure out a better way to handle its PR disasters that doesn't involve deleting threads and disabling forums.
Ace Frehley Minmatar Fist of the Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:09:00 - [1199] Edited by: Ace Frehley on 26/05/2007 09:10:21 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. Considering your name is on the chatlogs in part of this story, could you perhaps comment on that rather than simply voicing your discontentment with every single other eve player? You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). Just great..... Honestly that made me scared CCP, please put a ban on your staff makin relations with players. Do you know anything about group dynamics etc etc? It¦s the reason why I and many more dont want to party with their boss, coach on a regualry basis (When you win champions leauge it is oki to party with your manager ) etc tec, cuz you develop an informal relationship that in the longterm hurts company, team.. by favorism developed by the informal relationship... BACK THE SCHOOLDESK AGAIN CCP!!! _______________________________________________ Beer, Eve and no shaved babes!!! is that oki then? My slogans always gets nerfed \o/ Oh a new one: Beer, eve and play neekid!!
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:11:00 - [1200] Edited by: HankMurphy on 26/05/2007 09:10:13 fact: goonswarm will sensationalize anything they can to further their agenda (edit to add: in this game or any other) you can cut the political rhetoric in this thread w/ a knife
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:11:00 - [1201] Originally by: Mel Nalsek Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Frabala Don't know if it's already posted, but this admiral whatever is the same guy who was on site of D2's Titan kill minutes after the kill, congratulating everyone involved. Screen Thread oh god creepy Wow... Just... wow. That's quite a coincidence. There are no coincidences in life..... Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:12:00 - [1202] Originally by: Aries Acheron Question: Was Orange Species joking about 'having Bob on the MSN'? Anyone have any evidence aside from an off-hand remark he made? Whether he was joking or not, the "coincidental" chain of events leading to the banning of the ISD volunteer seem suspect. But judging from other commentary from BoB players about being friends with the Devs and QA people, I for one believe that yes, they do have out-of-game inroads to official CCP employees that others do not have. I don't know if CCP can ever "prove" anything now, since public opinion is firmly entrenched (45 pages of posts later)... so we may never know.
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:12:00 - [1203] Originally by: Aries Acheron Originally by: Malloc Memrel (I used to work for Blizz, other completely random stuff... Sorry. But people on the Internet's qualifications are automatically suspect, and using that to establish one's authority is very unreliable. It is true however, that conflicts of interest must be anticipated and prevented. Question: Was Orange Species joking about 'having Bob on the MSN'? Anyone have any evidence aside from an off-hand remark he made? Dianabolic's comments in this very thread support that the upper echelon in BoB does in fact have an MSN contact with the Devs..... Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Cynogesic	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:12:00 - [1204] Originally by: Aries Acheron Originally by: Malloc Memrel (I used to work for Blizz, other completely random stuff... Sorry. But people on the Internet's qualifications are automatically suspect, and using that to establish one's authority is very unreliable. It is true however, that conflicts of interest must be anticipated and prevented. Question: Was Orange Species joking about 'having Bob on the MSN'? Anyone have any evidence aside from an off-hand remark he made? Our CEO has/had CCP people on MSN, so it wouldn't surprise me that other might.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:12:00 - [1205] Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf Originally by: Mel Nalsek Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Frabala Don't know if it's already posted, but this admiral whatever is the same guy who was on site of D2's Titan kill minutes after the kill, congratulating everyone involved. Screen Thread oh god creepy Wow... Just... wow. That's quite a coincidence. There are no coincidences in life..... something is up that GM's account is very new as. looks like it was made... when the ISD member was kicked wait could someone look into the 4 month old?
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:13:00 - [1206] Originally by: HankMurphy Edited by: HankMurphy on 26/05/2007 09:10:13 fact: goonswarm will sensationalize anything they can to further their agenda (edit to add: in this game or any other) you can cut the political rhetoric in this thread w/ a knife Fact, people like you just ignore the facts when it is convenient to you. I understand that there are no arguments to defend CCP or BoB here, but ad hominem fallacies are getting really old...
Kayl Breinhar Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:14:00 - [1207] Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 26/05/2007 09:15:27 Originally by: Valan I've come to the conclusion Goons, BoB and CCP between them are doing their best to wreck this game for everyone else. IF CCP have screwed up again can they really admit it after last time? Just have to wait and see. You know, I can only speak for myself, but I really wish none of this crap was necessary to begin with, Valan. But with this war going on, it is. For as much as BoB has a right to enjoy this game, so do we - and the only thing we ask for is a level playing field on which to fight. More and more, it seems like no matter how hard we jump on our side, the field is always slanted towards the same people. But a level playing field is a tough thing to have when the other side has a direct line past the middle-man-heavy GM system. Even if the Devs they speak to don't directly intervene on their behalf, they can make certain through their position that their "friend's" petitions get served before others' or that their petitions receive extra scrutiny. None of us are naive enough to believe that said communications will stop even after today. No one logs Messenger. In fact, I'd expect there's probably been some laughs shared between "friends" over all of this and how nothing lasting will come of it. Furthermore, several times in this thread members of the "opposing side" have all but implied/said their in-game veterancy allows them that priviledge to skip the petition system the rest of us are bound to. This should anger you as much as it angers me. Earlier in this thread Dianabolic namedropped several people who supposedly have had direct contact to Devs outside the game. To my knowledge the only direct contact Goonswarm has ever had with the Dev staff has been at the Fanfest, a few instances when we've been asked to help stress test (which to my knowledge nothing has ever come of), and a single instance in XZH-4X local where Oveur was talking during one of the big battles there against D2. That's it. So, to answer the long-ago asked question - "who doesn't talk to the Devs," it's "us."
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:14:00 - [1208] fallacy ? no, i believe i said fact.
Carin K Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:14:00 - [1209] oh boy is fanfest gonna be fun :) /me readies crowbar in threatining position question 1, to CCP sharkbait, is dianabolic secretly your lover? question 2, to CCP sharkbait, tell us the truth behind the allegations of joining my friends at DS1 and happening to overhear a very sensitive conversation? question 3, also to CCP sharkbait, do u like the taste of crowbar? i think CCP should be glad I didnt honestly waste my money on tickets to see hairy icelandic men talk c* about how their game is soo fair. PS. anyone up for living a live on the test server?? lets just hope CCP arent cheating that too, o wait, let me look back, yes, someone took the BOB station in nol to do some research, they did it fair and square with pos and firepower, but within hours CCP had given the station back to BOB claiming bob were using it for research first, people spent their time fighting for it, but it was useless, WHY BOTHER FIGHTING BOB WHEN THEY CANNOT BE BEAT BECAUSE THEY ARE** ISD... and now, looks like their even ccp, people who work in the same place as the ones who make there living from my subscription, just get out, please or give me solid evidence that all the stuff i just typed was rong, and sincerel hope you can because i love this game i just dont know if i can love it some more after this??
Carin K Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:16:00 - [1210] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: doyoulikemytightsweater Just in a nutshell - can anyone explain what exactly really happened ? I ve tried reading through the thread but couldnt find it - well, I m still reading but curious as I am I d like to know now :o) A GM made himself the CEO of darksatr to Fix a buggy POS he then quit a few mins later and didn't answer any of the CEOs or players form darkstar going "wait, what? why was he our CEO? while this would be all fine because he is a GM, he is also a PC. and thus it's the same as PC going into your corp and getting full reign. Darkstars hidden capital building POS is now no longer hidden to one dev/Gm at least. will he tell bob? or will there be more twists?? one thing i do hate is OVEREXAGGERATION - he wasnt ceo, he was director, i know theres not much difference but if ure telling an innocent bystander what happened, just get it right
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:16:00 - [1211] Originally by: Carin K oh boy is fanfest gonna be fun :) devs gonna be armed w/ tasers
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:17:00 - [1212] Originally by: HankMurphy fallacy ? no, i believe i said fact. Yes you did. The fact you said it does not make it a fact though. Look up in your friendly dictionary in case you are confused. ;)
ShadowlordUK	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:17:00 - [1213] Yep anything text based could be a lie... yes we USED to trust CCP when things like this came up. Ironically, as a previous poster pointed out... Its all the bob alts and devs ADMITTING that they immediately abused out of game contacts to affect in game matters. Thats makes me.. sad i guess... If im playing a game with my friends, or running one. I dont feel the need to 'fix' stuff, so one player has an advantage over another. So why do CCP employees continue to do it?! Once trust has been lost its very tough to get back. And no matter how hard people try. There are certain elements of these stories (as usual only the minor ones are admitted.), that can never be denied. (How do you tell a player who just saw an isd ship self destruct with his own eyes - that it never happened. for instance?... you cant...) But whats really sad is that instead of admitting a minor mistake and being honourable, as you would expect. The initial first reaction is cover up and lie... It doesnt matter how honourable or honest people like Oveur and Hammerhead are.... if the people in middle management are corrupt (eg lacking in the basic desire to be fair to people, that hopefully most humans have) then nothing is ever going to change. 'Hey its only a game, dont you have a life, why are you bothering with this post.... etc...'? WHY? Because I, and many others put a LOT of hours (and less importantly money), into this game.... if you added up all the man hours spent playing this game and took a very very rough estimate of a westerner's hourly wages you will realise why people get so upset. For some its almost a quarter of their LIVES for the last 2 or 3 years!!! CCP needs a code of conduct for its employees that places integrity at the center of its business. And it needs to enforce this code on its employees. Otherwise this game will continue to go 'inactive', one person at a time, until everybody moves to a newer game.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:19:00 - [1214] Edited by: Vaeldan Athargan on 26/05/2007 09:18:44 Originally by: HankMurphy Edited by: HankMurphy on 26/05/2007 09:10:13 fact: goonswarm will sensationalize anything they can to further their agenda (edit to add: in this game or any other) you can cut the political rhetoric in this thread w/ a knife It is quite clear to many people following this fiasco that this is clearly a large part of metagaming propogandizing by BoB/Goon. They are publicizing this in order to draw attention for their own personal reasons. We get that. But it is also irrelevant, so you can stop trying to divert the focus. This does not change the "fact" that the events uncovered and publicized are very detrimental to the community of the game. A large portion of players are rather torqued off right now and either leaving, considering leaving, or whatever. The bottom line is that the respectability of this game has seriously dropped after the combination of the "T20" episode and now this. Sites like IGN, Slashdot and Digg are following this thread, and public opinion is shifting against Eve/CCP. That means, political rhetoric or metagaming propoganda or not, this game is in jeopardy of losing subscriptions, either current or potential because of loss of respectability. Get over the BoB vs Goon aspect of the argument. Some players are so close to this crap that they can't see the forest for the trees.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:21:00 - [1215] Originally by: Carin K oh boy is fanfest gonna be fun :) /me readies crowbar in threatining position question 1, to CCP sharkbait, is dianabolic secretly your lover? question 2, to CCP sharkbait, tell us the truth behind the allegations of joining my friends at DS1 and happening to overhear a very sensitive conversation? question 3, also to CCP sharkbait, do u like the taste of crowbar? i think CCP should be glad I didnt honestly waste my money on tickets to see hairy icelandic men talk c* about how their game is soo fair. PS. anyone up for living a live on the test server?? lets just hope CCP arent cheating that too, o wait, let me look back, yes, someone took the BOB station in nol to do some research, they did it fair and square with pos and firepower, but within hours CCP had given the station back to BOB claiming bob were using it for research first, people spent their time fighting for it, but it was useless, WHY BOTHER FIGHTING BOB WHEN THEY CANNOT BE BEAT BECAUSE THEY ARE** ISD... and now, looks like their even ccp, people who work in the same place as the ones who make there living from my subscription, just get out, please or give me solid evidence that all the stuff i just typed was rong, and sincerel hope you can because i love this game i just dont know if i can love it some more after this?? Question. Why are you here in this thread? Answer: you know you are guilty. Otherwise you wouldn't care. You, and by you I mean all bobsters here, are vehemently denying it, in all the other occasions, until there is no way to deny anymore. Then, when you cannot deny it anymore you will deny the next thing, attack the people who exposed you and say that yes you did it, but it was irrelevant. Grow up!
Captain Crimson CoreTech Industries E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:21:00 - [1216] Goonswarm ftl Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
Chelone	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:22:00 - [1217] Threefold solution: 1.) Ban BoB from Eve 2.) Ban Goonswarm from Eve 3.) Fire the entire CCP staff. Then the rest of us can get back to the game. Thanks.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:23:00 - [1218] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: HankMurphy fallacy ? no, i believe i said fact. Yes you did. The fact you said it does not make it a fact though. Look up in your friendly dictionary in case you are confused. ;) ah, you think what i said wasn't fact, however i contend that what i did say is fact! and i can support it w/ multiple incidents in which they have done ANYthing possible to achieve their goals. proof! compared to your silly tinfoil hatteries relating any action by a dev in this game to fixing it against them and theirs. to contend my claim you would need evidence to prove that goon wouldn't do anything they could 'including crashing a games' forums ' to make an incident blow up out of preportions. now tell me goons wouldn't do something like that! love to hear it! their reputation is by far (and not just in eve) regarded as the lowest possible amongst any gaming community. its not even an argument
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:24:00 - [1219] Why dont you guys just fight your f***ing war with fair weapons, without spoiling the game for everyone else?
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:25:00 - [1220] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: HankMurphy fallacy ? no, i believe i said fact. Yes you did. The fact you said it does not make it a fact though. Look up in your friendly dictionary in case you are confused. ;) ah, you think what i said wasn't fact, however i contend that what i did say is fact! and i can support it w/ multiple incidents in which they have done ANYthing possible to achieve their goals. proof! compared to your silly tinfoil hatteries relating any action by a dev in this game to fixing it against them and theirs. to contend my claim you would need evidence to prove that goon wouldn't do anything they could 'including crashing a games' forums ' to make an incident blow up out of preportions. now tell me goons wouldn't do something like that! love to hear it! their reputation is by far (and not just in eve) regarded as the lowest possible amongst any gaming community. its not even an argument Hmm, even in EVE I don't hold Goonswarm at the bottom. ---
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:26:00 - [1221] Originally by: Avrunath Why dont you guys just fight your f***ing war with fair weapons, without spoiling the game for everyone else? Who are you talking to? --- Dianabolic speaks about BoB's developer relationship. Lag Killer
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:27:00 - [1222] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Question. Why are you here in this thread? Answer: you know you are guilty. Otherwise you wouldn't care. You, and by you I mean all bobsters here, are vehemently denying it, in all the other occasions, until there is no way to deny anymore. Then, when you cannot deny it anymore you will deny the next thing, attack the people who exposed you and say that yes you did it, but it was irrelevant. Grow up! bobsters? you just replied to a goonswarm member lol
Nikotine Knights of Liberty Lupus Caerulus	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:28:00 - [1223] I've actually got nothing to add here. I just want to be in the most famous thread ever.
Comstr Technology Acquisition Collective Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:29:00 - [1224] Several questions MUST be answered: Are roleplaying storylines rigged enforcing one side to win and one to lose? If so, are people who participate warned of this? If not, why not? Did a player have direct access to a senior CCP employee to get a ISN reporter fired? Why was this done without going via the petition system? What sanction was done to the CCP employee who took the call without going through normal channels? Is it an allowed procedure for individual players to contact CCP employees directly, without going via official email address or in game petitions? What was the CCP employee doing giving himself director roles to the player corp? Why was player petitions asking this deleted? What sanction will be done to the employee?
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:29:00 - [1225] One things for sure. I expect a riot at the fanfest, and frankly it's something I would laugh my arse off about if it happened. Many people I know from every corner of the game are leaving because of all this. As if borked game mechanics and terrible lag aren't bad enough, you have crooked devs to go along with it. Corruption like this make me ill. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Kadarin Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:29:00 - [1226] Originally by: Trac3rt The problem is that BoB have an unfair advantage by having direct contact with the DEVs, who appear quite willing to bend to their will. Something no other group has. If BoB has a problem in-game, they get on MSN and ask whats up directly, anyone else has their petitions deleted, forum threads deleted within seconds, and steonwalled at every turn by those same Devs - how is this even remotely fair? If you consider the devs as BoBs friends (which has been stated by BoB), you have the following situation occur: BoBs friend joins your corp, gives themselves Directorship, then leaves and deletes almost all logs showing they were there without any invitation or explanation. Do you trust them? Of course not! I don't mind the Devs having in-game friends, but those friends should NEVER be allowed to know that the character is actually a Dev. Call us the Tinfoil hat brigate all you want, but we have a past precedent of currption and current admission of guilt from BoB members claiming they have a direct MSN hotline to the Devs. Frankly this stinks, and CCP should really clean up their act. I agree completely; we should all be playing on a level field, and it's pretty clear that this is not even remotely the case. I was very much disenchanted with EVE over the T20 scandal, and now I think CCP's response to the above will determine whether I continue to pay for four accounts.
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:30:00 - [1227] Wow 46 pages. Don't any of you sleep? --- Originally by: Blacklight To be honest
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:31:00 - [1228] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: HankMurphy fallacy ? no, i believe i said fact. Yes you did. The fact you said it does not make it a fact though. Look up in your friendly dictionary in case you are confused. ;) ah, you think what i said wasn't fact, however i contend that what i did say is fact! and i can support it w/ multiple incidents in which they have done ANYthing possible to achieve their goals. proof! compared to your silly tinfoil hatteries relating any action by a dev in this game to fixing it against them and theirs. Please do. Anything possible is a very silly term. Anything possible includes kiling people and kidnaping the CCP CEO. LOL. But if you go to this stage I would say that BoB has gone much forther in the "anything possible" than anybody else. Goons and many other factions may have done anything possible inside the game. BoB went many steps further, like Dianabolic enlighted us in this thread. Quote: to contend my claim you would need evidence to prove that goon wouldn't do anything they could 'including crashing a games' forums ' to make an incident blow up out of preportions. now tell me goons wouldn't do something like that! love to hear it! their reputation is by far (and not just in eve) regarded as the lowest possible amongst any gaming community. its not even an argument Oh my, they crashed a game forum so people could read their claims. Oh wait. If the forum is crashed nobody will read. Damn! You my friend, is the lowest form of life possible in any game. You are a mindless drone defending your big boss who is quite corrupt in the fear of losing your big daddy. There is very few things I can think that are more lamentable than being a cheater's brownose. Very sad... (see that is how a proper ad hominem argument is made. Now train at home and come back when you are ready.)
Jotan Veer HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:32:00 - [1229] I would love to see the goons voting with their feet and walking out. Until then it is just hot air.
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:33:00 - [1230] Edited by: Krasnij Okjabre on 26/05/2007 09:31:42 Possibly the best game ever conceived coming apart at the seams. Cancelled subscriptions, distrust, arrogance, finger pointing... I could go on but whats the point? To all involved (whoever you may be) I hope you are all very happy with y'selves. You've destroyed a place for some to escape, and for others just a great game. I hope you all get what you deserve. Karma ftw. Light is faster than sound... this is why some people appear bright until you speak to them...
Hauler's Gal Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:33:00 - [1231] Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Shinigami Back in REALITY we realize that a GM could easily see what's building in a POS without the need to join that corp. We also realize that a GM could easily remove that record if he was doing something wrong. Maybe the fact he got caught before he could ? Personally I find the possibility of this happening abhorrent. As for BoB being able to bypass game mechanics and talk to the DEVS real time outside the game. Hmm. Legally speaking you're walking a tightrope. I believe that the old definition of an exploit was 'using a system to circumvent the in-game mechanics...'; not sure if that holds. Now, the petition system is in-game mchanics. And you circumvent it my using MSN to talk to 'freinds' who happen to be the coders, developers and GM's of the game. CONFLICT OF INTERESTS. I've seen court cases based on this kind of thing. LOL CCP may also ban this posting or snip it after what I say next, cos they won't like it I'm sure. The difference between rigging a RL lottery which a person pays for and a virtual lottery that a person pays (albeit indirectly) to take part in is very blurry. You could sue someone like Camelot (UK lottery provider - I reckon they are as corrupt as Enron but that's a personal opinion) if it was proved they rigged the lottery, don't be surprised if the same could be applied in EVE. I've already started looking into it... So tell your office in Slough a summons might come their way. After this I'll never play an MMO again.
R0ger Wilco	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:34:00 - [1232] I sincerely hope CCP learn a hard lesson from this and that the poo really hits the fan.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:34:00 - [1233] Originally by: Avrunath Why dont you guys just fight your f***ing war with fair weapons, without spoiling the game for everyone else? /signed
doyoulikemytightsweater	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:35:00 - [1234] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: doyoulikemytightsweater Just in a nutshell - can anyone explain what exactly really happened ? I ve tried reading through the thread but couldnt find it - well, I m still reading but curious as I am I d like to know now :o) A GM made himself the CEO of darksatr to Fix a buggy POS he then quit a few mins later and didn't answer any of the CEOs or players form darkstar going "wait, what? why was he our CEO? while this would be all fine because he is a GM, he is also a PC. and thus it's the same as PC going into your corp and getting full reign. Darkstars hidden capital building POS is now no longer hidden to one dev/Gm at least. will he tell bob? or will there be more twists?? Thanks MotherMoon !
Won Swunglow Caldari Dead By Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:35:00 - [1235] I predict several more months of BoB silence to follow, allong with this all being deleted and forgoton about, until the next time it happens. Lets just face facts, were all human and open to corruption --
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:36:00 - [1236] Originally by: QwaarJet Corruption like this make me ill. seriously though, despite the obvious mistakes, how do you draw the line between corruption and simply working on their own damn game? if you want to draw that line, define it. dont just ramble about crooked devs and other tinfoil bs. there is a point when you need to get into the game and work it from a certain aspect to know whats going on i'm sure. ccp has proven time and time again they want to provide a great gaming experience to their best. in game political interests are beyond them, despite what desperate attention ****es spew. ITS THEIR GAME and i believe their interests are simply to continue running this game for everyone to the best of their ability. they continue to get my money, feel free to take your business elsewhere if you feel otherwise, i for one continue my membership knowing i'm part of the best gaming experience available.
Freddie Freeloader	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:37:00 - [1237] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley = You would not even dare to come to the fanfest and even if you did, i doubt you would have the courage to ask those questions. It's typical of people like you. You know what is "typical of people like you"? Trolling forums and posting reply after reply attacking other people's posts and disparaging their opinions because you're either angling to get a job as Press Secretary for CCP or because you're such a dyed-in-the-wool fanboy (or girl) apologist that it hurts you deep inside whenever anyone is critical of one of your favorite obsessions. You've had your say, now dry your eyes and write a long love letter to CCP with a collage of your favorite EVE screen shots attached. I'd suggest logging off the internet entirely but I don't want to rush you into any new territory after such a traumatic "thread" for you.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:37:00 - [1238] Originally by: Avrunath Why dont you guys just fight your f***ing war with fair weapons, without spoiling the game for everyone else? Because some weapons are better than others. My Blaster Cannons perform very poorly compared to SQL statements.
Link Kadeshi Gallente Shinko Setsuei	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:37:00 - [1239] I dare not speak of awful things like BoB being allowed to cheat, for I fear banning. Plus, I feel we should all listen to someone in a corp named Hyrule.... Just makes sense to me. Nothing will ever get better, CCP will give BoB Tech 4 mods, set all BoB opposition forces to have 10 armor hp, and make the monkeys attack us in our sleep. And if a corp/alliance gets strong enough to take out BoB, I'm sure CCP wont release the Jovians to "accidently" wipe out the opposition.... Never. - "Whaaa! Don't hit me!" ---- ----- The Garden of Kadesh was just the start.
Xamini	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:39:00 - [1240] Edited by: Xamini on 26/05/2007 09:39:10 Hey CCP, ffs give this great game into the hands of people who are able to deal with corruption and internal affairs, because obviously u aren¦t edit:spelling
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:39:00 - [1241] Originally by: R0ger Wilco I sincerely hope CCP learn a hard lesson from this and that the poo really hits the fan. A thought occurs. What if everyone that is concerned about this didn't log in for a while? Do you think CCP would take it seriously? Maybe see the impact it might be having on the game as a community? Because without showing CCP a measure of resolve, a player strike of sorts, then there is no 'hard lesson' to be learned. This is the second time these allegations have arose, and while they are investigating it, the outcry and upset/interest seems to be much higher this time.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:40:00 - [1242] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Oh my, they crashed a game forum so people could read their claims. Oh wait. If the forum is crashed nobody will read. Damn! so again, why would they do it??? =attention wh**ing. nothing else thx
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:41:00 - [1243] Originally by: HankMurphy there is a point when you need to get into the game and work it from a certain aspect to know whats going on i'm sure. No, there is not. All other companies in this world don't. Certainly they are wrong and only ccp is right... Quote: ccp has proven time and time again they want to provide a great gaming experience to their best. in game political interests are beyond them, despite what desperate attention **es spew. ITS THEIR GAME and i believe their interests are simply to continue running this game for everyone to the best of their ability. It is OUR GAME. We pay for it. Monthly. If you have no self-respect kindly don't extend your spineless behavior to everyone else. Quote:** they continue to get my money, feel free to take your business elsewhere if you feel otherwise, i for one continue my membership knowing i'm part of the best gaming experience available. You feel free to do whatever you like. Just don't try to tell me what I should do or anyone else.
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:42:00 - [1244] woot pg 45 of a thread that sucked long ago vote with your wallet. if you dont like the game quit. and no thanks i got my own stuff. from a bob peon standpoint i dont know if any of my corp/ alliance mates are devs and dont want to know.that is there job and eve is the farthest place from work i can imagine. i do however want to pew pew. Originally by: MrTripps combat in Jita is as slow and ugly as watching senior citizens copulate.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:44:00 - [1245] Originally by: Eskalin woot pg 45 of a thread that sucked long ago vote with your wallet. if you dont like the game quit. and no thanks i got my own stuff. from a bob peon standpoint i dont know if any of my corp/ alliance mates are devs and dont want to know.that is there job and eve is the farthest place from work i can imagine. i do however want to pew pew. Wouldn't you rather know that they aren't devs? Seems like that'd be better than just saying you don't want to know.
Trilli Shaw	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:44:00 - [1246] I'm disappointed. I thought CCP would have learned from their past and the mistakes they did there. Obviously they now try AGAIN to sweep everything under the carpet. "Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened was simply a developer doing his job ingame. He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, which was bugged." And why were the petitions deleted asking why he joined? Why the forum posts deleted? And much more important: what is with the other accusations? Why can BoB go around the petition system while others can't? What about those RP events? CCP, you asked me to trust you in the last big dev misconduct. I trusted you that you will work hard to make the game fair again. But now, half a year later, you ask again! What did you do in the time between that deserves you again and again giving you more trust? I have lost my faith that you will make eve anytime soon a fair game again. What a pity! And I do NOT pay my money that some corrupt devs can enjoy eve game with their bob buddies and chat away with them on MSN. Because yes, it is ME who pays all their paychecks and who pays for the hardware and all. Me and all the other players who don't have special friends at ccp.
Shirazz Amarr Original Pirating Material	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:45:00 - [1247] There have been rumours that linking the website with these allegations ingame has been made a bannable offence and has already been put into practice. I would appreciate it if this could be confirmed/denied and if confirmed why. If this is confirmed, this might be slightly irrational on the part of the devs to say the least. =please dont pwn this one meow :(=
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:46:00 - [1248] Originally by: Eskalin woot pg 45 of a thread that sucked long ago vote with your wallet. if you dont like the game quit. and no thanks i got my own stuff. from a bob peon standpoint i dont know if any of my corp/ alliance mates are devs and dont want to know.that is there job and eve is the farthest place from work i can imagine. i do however want to pew pew. You are in BoB. You don't want to pew pew. You want to win. Against no opposition if possible. Because, you know, if there is opposition you may lose. But then again, you would only have to call for your personal GM to fix things for you. And now they are available in MSN too. Yes you are in BoB. :)
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:46:00 - [1249] Originally by: HankMurphy there is a point when you need to get into the game and work it from a certain aspect to know whats going on i'm sure. At least CCP got one person to believe this. It's a load of horse-hooey. No other game company believes this. ---
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:48:00 - [1250] Originally by: Eskalin woot pg 45 of a thread that sucked long ago vote with your wallet. if you dont like the game quit. and no thanks i got my own stuff. from a bob peon standpoint i dont know if any of my corp/ alliance mates are devs and dont want to know.that is there job and eve is the farthest place from work i can imagine. i do however want to pew pew. Because when 4000 goons all leave at once, you can just take the territory that they leave behind, further accomplishing your goals, not to mention possibly strengthening your relationship with CCP. Good luck there buddy.
Gegi Wau Minmatar Liberty Labs	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:49:00 - [1251] 1. If CCP Sharkbait really wanted to spy on DS1, don't you think he would have chosen a slightly more secretive way? Come on people, switch on your brains. 2. RP "rigging": Anyone who has ever played pen & paper RPGs knows that one of the most difficult tasks of a Game Master is getting the players to follow the story that he has planned for them. Sometimes he'll have to give them a little nudge in the right direction. Sometimes, the freedom of choice will be only an illusion, but a cunning Game Master will not make it too obvious that the players are, in fact, kept on a leash. Of course, some Game Masters are better at this than others. Some Game Masters just ditch the story arc they had painstakingly planned and make up a new one on the fly. The Aurora team seems to have had a certain outcome in mind when organising their events, and were probably less than subtle in making sure that this outcome would be achieved. 3. BoB getting an ISD member fired: For me, this one is the only news-worthy element of this whole drama bomb. It looks like a BoB member got angry at an ISD guy, ordered him to leave system (!), and subsequently, since he had the cheek to say no, contacted one of his pals at CCP to have him fired (!!). Mind you, I said "looks like", since we only have the ISD guy's word for it at the moment, and we don't know what went on behind the scenes. AMARRES EUNT DOMUS
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:50:00 - [1252] SELECT STARSYSTEM,MOON,OWNER FROM EVEDB.POS_PRODUCTION WHERE USED_BP=TITAN_BP; If a dev wants info about titans currently building, this is a far easier way (and undetectable too). If a dev wants to investigate an issue in-game, looking at the database is not efficient (needle in haystack?), but looking at it from the player perspective is..... Damn, NOW I wish I'd invested in that tinfoil factory Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:51:00 - [1253] All of this would be moot if CCP banned their members from playing the game. ---
Cynogesic	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:51:00 - [1254] Originally by: Kerfira SELECT STARSYSTEM,MOON,OWNER FROM EVEDB.POS_PRODUCTION WHERE USED_BP=TITAN_BP; If a dev wants info about titans currently building, this is a far easier way (and undetectable too). If a dev wants to investigate an issue in-game, looking at the database is not efficient (needle in haystack?), but looking at it from the player perspective is..... Damn, NOW I wish I'd invested in that tinfoil factory The guy was in QA. I'm guessing he wouldn't have a ton of access to the database and what not.
Zerv Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:53:00 - [1255] man, something needs to be done... scandal after scandal... players really don't have confidence in the devs anymore.
New Hampshire Caldari Antares Frontier The Fifth Race	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:55:00 - [1256] Edited by: New Hampshire on 26/05/2007 09:56:04 What strikes me is that these allegations (at least some of which, T20, have been admitted and are therefore no longer mere allegations) of employee misconduct appear to always revolve around BoB, which just happens to be arguably the most successful alliance in the game. I'm having a REAL hard time believing that to be a coincidence. And I wonder about secondary effect of these allegations. In other words, how many BoB enemies have quit the game due to these issues, thereby further strengthening BoB?
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:55:00 - [1257] A wise man once said that when you have to resort to personal attacks, you have realized that you have lost the argument and simply cannot debate on the same intellectual level any further.
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:56:00 - [1258] Edited by: Mortania on 26/05/2007 09:55:21 Originally by: Vaeldan Athargan A wise man once said that when you have to resort to personal attacks, you have realized that you have lost the argument and simply cannot debate on the same intellectual level any further. That guy was an idiot. edit: ---
Sacrosanctus	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:57:00 - [1259] Originally by: Kerfira SELECT STARSYSTEM,MOON,OWNER FROM EVEDB.POS_PRODUCTION WHERE USED_BP=TITAN_BP; If a dev wants info about titans currently building, this is a far easier way (and undetectable too). If a dev wants to investigate an issue in-game, looking at the database is not efficient (needle in haystack?), but looking at it from the player perspective is..... Damn, NOW I wish I'd invested in that tinfoil factory Ok now why did the petitions asking about it get closed, and what about the other allegations?
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:57:00 - [1260] Originally by: Mortania Edited by: Mortania on 26/05/2007 09:55:21 That guy was an idiot. edit: HAHA! Nice one. Intellectual humor. Gotta love it!
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 09:58:00 - [1261] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 26/05/2007 09:57:37 Originally by: New Hampshire What strikes me is that these allegations (at least some of which, T20, have been admitted and are therefore no longer mere allegations) of employee misconduct appear to always revolve around BoB, which just happens to be arguably the most successful alliance in the game. I'm having a REAL hard time believing that to be a coincidence. Ever wonder why it's always the people fighting BoB (and losing) that come up with the allegations? I'm having a REAL hard time believing that to be a coincidence.
insanebe Caldari G.H.O.S.T	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:00:00 - [1262] the problem here lies in bad handling of the incident, - deleting petitions without feedback etc knowledge is power.... guard it well
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:00:00 - [1263] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 26/05/2007 09:57:37 Originally by: New Hampshire What strikes me is that these allegations (at least some of which, T20, have been admitted and are therefore no longer mere allegations) of employee misconduct appear to always revolve around BoB, which just happens to be arguably the most successful alliance in the game. I'm having a REAL hard time believing that to be a coincidence. Ever wonder why it's always the people fighting BoB (and losing) that come up with the allegations? I'm having a REAL hard time believing that to be a coincidence. While that may have been intended as tongue-in-cheek sarcasm, you have just proven the point made by the first poster.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:00:00 - [1264] Edited by: Shinigami on 26/05/2007 09:59:52 Originally by: Avon I am absolutely sick to the back teeth of certain parts of our "community" using their one sided tales and accusations to attack CCP, or BoB, or Eve, through widespread internet posting. You have to realize that this part of the community came from a forum. They are even willing to pay money to use a forum. When things aren't going their way they will retreat and fight on their home territory. --- Dianabolic speaks about BoB's developer relationship. Lag Killer
Malloc Memrel	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:01:00 - [1265] Originally by: Jargoon Edited by: Jargoon on 26/05/2007 09:06:55 Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. This is an excellent post, and if your irl nickname is snip Don't use racial epithets. -Rauth then sup brah Er, kinda got snipped before I could see it. Is there a half-censored version? What's it start with?
Wod Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:01:00 - [1266] I'm seriously concidering closing my EVE account(s?). The only matter I'd like a clairfication on is the ISD guy getting "banned". I think most people missunderstand PVP. I think most people abuse the term PVP. Player versus Player. Get it?
R0ger Wilco	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:02:00 - [1267] Originally by: Merc998 Lets play a new game... Guess Arkanons reponses.. My Entries Issue 1. Sharkbait in DS1 Corps as a director. Arkanons answer " In the course of his work Sharkbait stumbled apon a bug in DS1 POS's and took it on hmself to fix them without informing DS! leaders, he has been reminded that he should inform the corps CEO's in future this issue is now closed" Issue 2. DS1 Petition Arkanons answer "A new GM accidently deleted the petition he has been reprimanded for not bringing the accident to a higher GM, This issue is now closed" Issue 3. Arkanons answer RP arcs rigged "The ISD Aurora team has been completely revamped since this issue happened and we have complete confidence in the current team that situations like this will never happen again, Issue closed" Issue 4. Arkanons answer Corps/alliances having higher access to GM's/ISD/DEVS. "I do not have access to MSN logs from individuals or CCP employee's as they are not part of the CCP infrastructure, so I cannot confirm or deny that this interaction took place, therefore I cannot persue any further enquiries into this issue, Issue closed" You work at CCP don't you
Lanfear's Bane kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:03:00 - [1268] INTERNET - SERIOUS BUSINESS. That's how much I care. CCP's stance on nondiscussion of GMss / Devs etc etc is a crock of proverbial. When it comes down to it all they are interested in is raking in cash and they will do this by any means possible and use any means possible to keep this cash flow pouring in. They don't care about us, the RP element or 'fair play'. So they have mae some stupid mistakes recently, we can't however judge that these events will hurt their bank balances more than the events they prevented through their actions. You just have to learn to accept this and without sounding cliched - It's their universe, we just fly in it. Notice how their wall of silence unless their hand is totally forced is coming back to bite them time and time again? Delicious irony is that is has spawned a huge mistrust within the EVE community. Lanfear's Bane. - - - - - - - - - - - Got Killboard?
Voidster	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:03:00 - [1269] Fastest petion response ever? :P
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:03:00 - [1270] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Wouldn't you rather know that they aren't devs? Seems like that'd be better than just saying you don't want to know. no cause if i made the game I'd want to play it too. but i see things from inside the big scary bob. if a dev is going to be dirty cover them with seals and make him play with polar bears but the witch hunts have to end. the fact that so many of you are having a hard time with someone separating work(ie.. their job as a ccp dev) and their player account shows the lack of ethics in your own lives. but that may just be a comment on the world in general reflected in the microcosm of eve. I'm going to trust the Icelandic drunk ****s that brought me this game. this litigiousness is going too far i'm a sad donkey for all of you Originally by:** MrTripps combat in Jita is as slow and ugly as watching senior citizens copulate.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:04:00 - [1271] Yes, logs and images can be faked. Aside from any accusations of misconduct by CCP; it's pretty lame to see BoB threatening pilots and volunteers with "I'll go talk to my mate in CCP and he'll stop you". Whether they actually have any influence or not. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Darkwolfi Conisor Excavations Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:04:00 - [1272] After 47 pages i doubt i have much new to ad, but i guess.. .. Those who wins this forum war wins eve? I just have a bad taste in my mouth when BoB can file 'petitions' through msn instead of having to use the ingame petitioning system where logs are stored and available to the rest of ccp. Also this give said players and alliance an ingame 'advantage' over other players and in my eyes should be considered an exploit and both employee and player should not be part of this game anymore.
Yankee Uprising	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:07:00 - [1273] hate hate hate... why so much of it? The very core of these problems is collectively sitting around a big table in CCP's building. I think if anyone actually thinks about it, we can all agree on that. But everybody hates BoB. Why? Because they are, simply, the best and the strongest alliance. Yes, they have been involved in a few shenanigans, the effects of which can't really be guessed at. Oh yeah - and they have a stated mission of making the whole EVE galaxy BoB space. And everybody hates the Goons. Why? Because they want to play their way. Seems to me that everybody does. And they have had their shenanigans as well. And they want to make the whole EVE galaxy Goon space. Sound familiar? This thread was intended as a discussion place for the subject of this Open Letter and the DS POS. As pper usual, it has degraded into yet another flamewar that BOTH sides have proven very adept at fanning compleely out of porportion. Goons have a problem with BoB? Bob has problems with Goons? Fine. Take it back to the game and fight it out IF you can both stop *****ing and whining long enough to decide on a battlefield. Stain is about halfway between you. Put up and shut up
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:07:00 - [1274] Originally by: Cynogesic Originally by: Kerfira SELECT STARSYSTEM,MOON,OWNER FROM EVEDB.POS_PRODUCTION WHERE USED_BP=TITAN_BP; If a dev wants info about titans currently building, this is a far easier way (and undetectable too). If a dev wants to investigate an issue in-game, looking at the database is not efficient (needle in haystack?), but looking at it from the player perspective is..... Damn, NOW I wish I'd invested in that tinfoil factory The guy was in QA. I'm guessing he wouldn't have a ton of access to the database and what not. Even if he did, there are these magical things called logs. There's also this magical thing called 'proper security policy' which would forbid people who have the authority to futz with the database from having any other access to the system(s) the database is running on. 'Undetectable', feh. Then again, CCP is using Microsoft products if I remember correctly. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:07:00 - [1275] Originally by: Eskalin Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Wouldn't you rather know that they aren't devs? Seems like that'd be better than just saying you don't want to know. no cause if i made the game I'd want to play it too. but i see things from inside the big scary bob. if a dev is going to be dirty cover them with seals and make him play with polar bears but the witch hunts have to end. the fact that so many of you are having a hard time with someone separating work(ie.. their job as a ccp dev) and their player account shows the lack of ethics in your own lives. but that may just be a comment on the world in general reflected in the microcosm of eve. I'm going to trust the Icelandic drunk ******s that brought me this game. this litigiousness is going too far i'm a sad donkey for all of you wouldn't be a problem if CCP didn't allow their employees to play normal accounts. ---
nlun Grumpy Old Men	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:08:00 - [1276] Originally by: Chelone Threefold solution: 1.) Ban BoB from Eve 2.) Ban Goonswarm from Eve 3.) Fire the entire CCP staff. Then the rest of us can get back to the game. Thanks. Sure a 17 days old char has the solution. I wonder who need to think about that. I have seen crazy poste but this is not right. This has nothing to do with the dev and reporter issue as discussion. i agree with ppl that the reporter didnot follow the rules, say something in local and for that reason must leave. The dev did his job, else he better used a 17 old day char for spy work.
Merc998	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:08:00 - [1277] Originally by: R0ger Wilco Originally by: Merc998 Lets play a new game... Guess Arkanons reponses.. My Entries Issue 1. Sharkbait in DS1 Corps as a director. Arkanons answer " In the course of his work Sharkbait stumbled apon a bug in DS1 POS's and took it on hmself to fix them without informing DS! leaders, he has been reminded that he should inform the corps CEO's in future this issue is now closed" Issue 2. DS1 Petition Arkanons answer "A new GM accidently deleted the petition he has been reprimanded for not bringing the accident to a higher GM, This issue is now closed" Issue 3. Arkanons answer RP arcs rigged "The ISD Aurora team has been completely revamped since this issue happened and we have complete confidence in the current team that situations like this will never happen again, Issue closed" Issue 4. Arkanons answer Corps/alliances having higher access to GM's/ISD/DEVS. "I do not have access to MSN logs from individuals or CCP employee's as they are not part of the CCP infrastructure, so I cannot confirm or deny that this interaction took place, therefore I cannot persue any further enquiries into this issue, Issue closed" You work at CCP don't you Not CCP but something similar, and my role is very much like Arkanons, To ensure that any negative comments by customers/ unsound activities by employees have as little impact on the company as possible. eerrrr I mean to persue corruption within the workplace
Visakoth	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:08:00 - [1278] Originally by: Mortania All of this would be moot if CCP banned their members from playing the game. snip Off-topic. -Rauth
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:09:00 - [1279] Originally by: SebieV i work with and build computers for 14 years now i have seen many strange stuff and beliefe me they are doing a hell of a jop !! What? CCP can play their game all they want, their GM's can play all they want, but when RP storylines are rigged, employees are fired over FALSE accusations, it's time to get down to business. Realize that not everyone cheats, but some do, and there needs to be STRICT, NO TOLERANCE rules for the type of things that have happened. Do BoB or Goonswarm or D2 have CCP employees in their ranks? I bet they do, you want to know why? Because they like to play the game, but when they step over the line, and start to influence in-game events in their corp/alliance/personal favor, things need to be done.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:09:00 - [1280] Anyway what ever happend.. i now hope all GOONS will just quit the game.. comon you can do it.. ^^ ->My Vids<-
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:10:00 - [1281] Originally by: Zekk Pacus Originally by: Mortania All of this would be moot if CCP banned their members from playing the game. And then the only information on balance and other game issues would come from the community? No thanks. yeah. balance can only come from being a hidden player at the top of an alliance. data can only be gathered from a limited set of data from playing the game. /sarcasm playing in game as an alliance leader isn't needed for game balancing. ever. ---
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:11:00 - [1282] Originally by: Visakoth Originally by: Mortania All of this would be moot if CCP banned their members from playing the game. snip Off-topic. -Rauth Hhaha, I just saw this tonight, so no spoiler tags for me. ---
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:12:00 - [1283] Originally by: Mortania Originally by: HankMurphy there is a point when you need to get into the game and work it from a certain aspect to know whats going on i'm sure. At least CCP got one person to believe this. It's a load of horse-hooey. No other game company believes this. and do you work for every mmo company? Sorry but if your the one making the game it kind of makes sense that your going to play it. -------- Robbie Rotten left me
Commanders Heaven Terran Nova Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:12:00 - [1284] As for me who is not involved into the 0.0 battle i have only one thing to say. Hopfully CCP has done it the honoust way, It would be a shame if the community cant trust the game developers due to the current proves of what is going on. Hopefully CCP has the Balls to come out with open hands and show us whats going on. If the game is beeing unballanced due to CCP involment of the game to one side like BOB, then this game has no more worth playing. So CCP i urge you not to keep anything hidden in this matter, since it will only do you bad in this case. CH r-ise It's the members who make the corp, and not the other way around...
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:13:00 - [1285] So Dianabolic says Goonswarm should have made buddies with CCP like BoB did. The funny thing is, at the last fanfest some goons made friends with a CCP employee by the name of GM eldini. One thing led to another and we ended up giving him a forum account to our private forums. Within a few hours of this happening BoB spies were crying about it to CCP (via msn amirite?) and said GM got in big trouble with his superiors and had to be banned from our forums. Dianabolic makes it sound like anyone can have special e-best friend forever relationships with CCP employees to "build a better eve together" or whatever. This is a complete lie. BoB ->CCP connections will never be matched by another alliance since those two entities are already so sickeningly entwined at every level. I'm not just saying "at every level" to sound fancy, the Devs, GM's, ISD, and Aurora have all been corruptly involved with BoB in some way. And for people saying "proof or stfu", you have your proof. Between our own forum records and what Dianabolic has admitted here you have a clear case of favoritism. It's okay for BoB to chat it up with their dev buddies on msn and to have GM's letting them know in advance about job openings at CCP on their private forums. But it's not okay for an anti-BoB alliance to chat with a GM about the fanfest they had just attended.
aquontium Gallente Fourth Circle	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:14:00 - [1286] Please could we have an explanation of how Admiral's character seems to have been biomassed on less than 24h notice? Interesting. The community and the corp concerned do trust Sharkbait, but it's the other accusations that are concerning. Especially as the ISD member concerned contributed a lot to storylines, was generally well respected, and disappeared without a trace. While a number of people here are saying "proof or shut up", that can be directed at both sides. While I trust Arkanon, Internal Affairs should publish full results of their investigations for the community. We're (mostly) adults and to be told 'this is the truth, so believe it' is something I wouldn't even tell children. Explain reasoning and the framework, then elaborate as to how you come to your conclusions.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:14:00 - [1287] Originally by: Anatolius Originally by: Cynogesic Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... The guy was in QA. I'm guessing he wouldn't have a ton of access to the database and what not. Even if he did, there are these magical things called logs. There's also this magical thing called 'proper security policy' which would forbid people who have the authority to futz with the database from having any other access to the system(s) the database is running on. 'Undetectable', feh. 'Undetectable' from a player point of view, yes. As for access rights.... Since the DB has to be accessible from the game code, that most likely mean that there is a master account for that, with the account name and pwd easily readable inside the code. The large majority of companies internal data security sux bigtime, and CCP is probably no different on this... Originally by: Anatolius Then again, CCP is using Microsoft products if I remember correctly. We're doomed, DOOMED I tell ya'! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:14:00 - [1288] Originally by: Araxmas Originally by: Mortania Originally by: HankMurphy there is a point when you need to get into the game and work it from a certain aspect to know whats going on i'm sure. At least CCP got one person to believe this. It's a load of horse-hooey. No other game company believes this. and do you work for every mmo company? Sorry but if your the one making the game it kind of makes sense that your going to play it. Playing the games you make to test and make them better and playing the games you make as a normal regular player are two entirely different affairs. The former is required for any game to be good, the latter is entirely unnecessary and opens your game up to the exact problems CCP faces now. ---
Captain Howdy001	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:15:00 - [1289] well if a gm abused his power and cost any one isk due to it, ccp needs to pay up and fire the GM! ban him/her from the game and just move on. face it t he GM are human and they have flaws. the bad ones need to go! the good ones need to stay. the cost??? who know what it will be in the long run. millions of isk, perhaps thousands in real money. due to word of mouth and people quiting over this.perhaps the real problem is too many gm's. i play other online games where the gm's actions are recorded and if they even come close to getting out of line there gone. i even know of a gm that was fried for comments made on ventrilo a 3rd party program.
Gutsani Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:16:00 - [1290] Has a dev/someone important actually already replied to this thread or is it deemed the same course as the last one's? Dying due to lack of information. Cause, its no snip Do NOT evade the profanity filter. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) use if we bias here if your not gonna read it anyway .. (and that is read with your brain, not with your eyes) I am personally not affected by this at all, i just wanne know if it is true or not and what you are actually doing about it. It seems like your whole dev/gm team is biased towards bob and is using their powers to get information and what more.. And now you can whine and do whatever you like about dev's being in all alliances, well then why arnt they causing incidents like this? All i have to say, and you better make sure i can find your answers somewhere easely, no hair on my head is thinking about reading 47 pages of crap to see what ccp's opinion is about this all. ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:18:00 - [1291] :) ->My Vids<-
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:19:00 - [1292] Originally by: Gutsani Has a dev/someone important actually already replied to this thread or is it deemed the same course as the last one's? Dying due to lack of information. Cause, its no snip Do NOT evade the profanity filter. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) use if we bias here if your not gonna read it anyway .. (and that is read with your brain, not with your eyes) I am personally not affected by this at all, i just wanne know if it is true or not and what you are actually doing about it. It seems like your whole dev/gm team is biased towards bob and is using their powers to get information and what more.. And now you can whine and do whatever you like about dev's being in all alliances, well then why arnt they causing incidents like this? All i have to say, and you better make sure i can find your answers somewhere easely, no hair on my head is thinking about reading 47 pages of crap to see what ccp's opinion is about this all. This is soley a thread for the nerd rage to come out. Like the last one, there have been no Dev responses in the thread. Use eve-search for easier browsing for dev replys. ---
Visakoth	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:19:00 - [1293] snip Trolling. -Rauth
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:20:00 - [1294] snip quoted post and response. -Rauth ---
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:20:00 - [1295] Originally by: Mortania This is soley a thread for the nerd rage to come out. Like the last one, there have been no Dev responses in the thread. Use eve-search for easier browsing for dev replys. NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD RRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:21:00 - [1296] I dunno... I just can't see past all of the accusations to be able to say "must be a coincidence". Judging from the commentary out on the Net about this, I'm thinking I'm not alone here. So, BoB players can defend and attempt to deflect the points that many here are trying to make... but it doesn't change the fact that the points are being made. And not disputed. Oh, and it's great that BoB is happy with the game as it is. But do the rest of us get to pressure CCP into forming/enforcing a policy much like some sort of anti-monopoly measure? Because I think many people would agree that the power of BoB's apparent leverage (both IC and OOC) leaves any sort of opposition far behind. At what point does CCP decide that one entity in the game is too powerful and acts to curtail that entity using the game's theme to check them? At what point do the Empire factions take note of this massive territory under one flag and start to view it as a threat. Not to mention the NPC corporations that live in the spaces that BoB is taking over? Therein lies the apparent conflict of interest. The very people responsible for same game theme balance and enforcement have been accused of being part of these corruption allegations. So what is a normal, non-involved player to think?
doyoulikemytightsweater	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:22:00 - [1297] Originally by: Anatolius Originally by: Cynogesic Originally by: Kerfira SELECT STARSYSTEM,MOON,OWNER FROM EVEDB.POS_PRODUCTION WHERE USED_BP=TITAN_BP; If a dev wants info about titans currently building, this is a far easier way (and undetectable too). If a dev wants to investigate an issue in-game, looking at the database is not efficient (needle in haystack?), but looking at it from the player perspective is..... Damn, NOW I wish I'd invested in that tinfoil factory The guy was in QA. I'm guessing he wouldn't have a ton of access to the database and what not. Even if he did, there are these magical things called logs. There's also this magical thing called 'proper security policy' which would forbid people who have the authority to futz with the database from having any other access to the system(s) the database is running on. 'Undetectable', feh. Then again, CCP is using Microsoft products if I remember correctly. You see - this is funny: Logs - yes they are there - but any backup taken and stored on say the test server can be accessed as well. Sure, there is a time that backup lags behind but a Titan takes time to build ya'know ? So - I m sure there is a lot of ways to get the info without showing up on the radar.
Quixeh Gallente Guiding Star Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:23:00 - [1298] Is it so hard for CCP employees to stay out of an alliance? Do you really miss the huge elephant that occurs in the room when you as a Dev start playing around in the PAYING customer's affairs? Simple way to avoid this, is to ban any employees from joining an alliance. Problem solved. If they need to in order to solve a problem, let the character be CLEARLY LABELED and have the entire alliance know.
John MacCoy Amarr Arcana Imperii Ltd. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:26:00 - [1299] The way to look at this whole thing is this: The fact that a GM joined a corp to check out a problem with the POS that was possible bugged. GM's have done it before and will do it again. They kinda have to in order to make sure that POS is running correctly and if it is not then it can be repaired by the GM. As to the deleting of the petition by the GM, that is a weird one no doubt. But like it has bee said by many people so far there is only the word of the CEO of the Corp in question that has made the complaint, and no offence to him be he does have his own agenda against BoB. Lets not forget that this game is made, maintained and controlled by CCP and they can basically do what ever they like with it. Everything in the game is their poperty and not yours. You play by their rules, not the other way around. And finally, everyone here my be pritty ****ed off about this whole situation but remember this. You may moan or complain all you want with CCP and each other but there is not a damn thing you can do to help with the situation. You may say that you can never trust CCP again. If that is the case then you should quit Eve. But you know you wont quit and Eve and everyone else knows you wont quit Eve. You'll just grunt under your breath and continue to play as if nother ever happened. Eve controls you. You dont control Eve. -------------------- John MacCoy Arcana Imperii Ltd. The Cartel "Those who are prideful and refuse to bow down shall be laid low and made unto dust."
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:28:00 - [1300] Originally by: Gneeznow I wonder how long before BoB leadership tells their members to shut up on the forums for another 4 months until this all ''blows over'' I say within 18 hours :-P Those were good days, no? --- CCP: Please disallow your employees from playing normal player accounts.
Trilli Shaw	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:28:00 - [1301] Originally by: Eskalin Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Wouldn't you rather know that they aren't devs? Seems like that'd be better than just saying you don't want to know. the fact that so many of you are having a hard time with someone separating work(ie.. their job as a ccp dev) and their player account shows the lack of ethics in your own lives. Erm, might I remind you only at the t20 incident? Yes? WE lack ethics? Funny...

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:28:00 - [1302] Originally by: Gutsani Has a dev/someone important actually already replied to this thread or is it deemed the same course as the last one's? Dying due to lack of information. FYI, It's holiday weekend in US and many parts of Europe. Therefore CCP staff may be on holidays or taking a break. Not completely sure though. ___ Questions/Complaints/Opinions/Bree \| Forum Rules \| Our Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER

HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:28:00 - [1303] Originally by: PunkRoadkill Goon and BOB should just join forces, take over the whole of 0.0, declare war of every corp in game and then camp every empire gate they can forcing everyone in EVE to either leave or bow to them. then no one will care what BOB get up to with CCP as there will be no one left to complain you severely over-estimate goons. they aren't worth much more than spamming. whether it be forums or a solar system....
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:29:00 - [1304] Originally by: Kerfira 'Undetectable' from a player point of view, yes. Naturally, but I'd be hoping that shiny new IA division would be doing audits to watch for funky database queries. Originally by: Kerfira As for access rights.... Since the DB has to be accessible from the game code, that most likely mean that there is a master account for that, with the account name and pwd easily readable inside the code. There are ways to secure that as well, but I'll concede based on the following: Originally by: Kerfira The large majority of companies internal data security sux bigtime, and CCP is probably no different on this... True enough. I'm still unable to make sense of this though, either way. Have to say, after the last scandal, if I was going around fixing bugs and had to do something to a POS in game, I'd sure as hell mention it to the corp whose POS I was investigating before popping in and granting myself directorship. Then again, I read the forums, and am aware of the current level of paranoia among the playerbase. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:30:00 - [1305] Originally by: Eldo Davip Originally by: Gutsani Has a dev/someone important actually already replied to this thread or is it deemed the same course as the last one's? Dying due to lack of information. FYI, It's holiday weekend in US and many parts of Europe. Therefore CCP staff may be on holidays or taking a break. Not completely sure though. I'll be working this weekend, and I don't have 200,000 live paying customers questioning my integrity this weekend. --- CCP: Please disallow your employees from playing normal player accounts.
Captain Crimson CoreTech Industries E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:31:00 - [1306] It's a game, there's bound to be cheats in it like any other. Like hackers on Source. Some people just stop at nothing to have a complete control over the game, as that's human nature at it's worst. Unfortunately some people let this megalomaniac inside of them turn them into selfish monsters who cause things like this and lots of time wasting on everyone part, as well as a lot of trust lost. On topic.... I say just set all the members at -10 and keep them in the south to war forever more Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
tessssssssssst	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:32:00 - [1307] Edited by: tessssssssssst on 26/05/2007 10:32:32 i don't know what the hell they are thinking nor if they are all drugged but WTF some week ago we had kieron and co who's giving a little hope to reach better day and now that. again and again we can't trust ccp... i think you don't realise something... your doing fanfest heh? don't be suprised if someone in the party come to you with BAD will but that's not my taste. I think i'll write to liberation about this event, they have wrote something about eve anniversary, i think this will be a good story for them, i can't let them fool the customer. opss posted with an alt, expect to be sniped sry
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:32:00 - [1308] What I do not understand is the ambiguous way communications between CCP and some of the players are handled. To communicate between the playerbase and GM's there is a petitioning system available. It is the door to get in touch with eachother and it has the same set of rules for everyone. But more importantly, it has trackable communications. Someone's MSN has not direct tracable communications for Internal affairs of CCP. Mr. Arkanon, you'd beter close these backdoor's. It is even the possibility that awkward unrecorded messages will pass your means of scrutinizing that can damage credibility of this game. RB join us today!
Captain Crimson CoreTech Industries E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:33:00 - [1309] Originally by: Eron Lygera I've had it with all you "omg cheat devhax we must have truuuuuttttthhhh" crusaders. Understand that you are not entitled to anything, contrary to what you may think. I seriously hope that you will remove your characters, accounts and your complaining asses from this game and make it more fun for the rest of us. Stop playing seriously! That goes to the goonswarm guys, and s****dly especially. You are so biased towards conspiracy that your mind is seriously clouded. Leave this game. Please. QFT. Originally by:** Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:33:00 - [1310] Edited by: Avon on 26/05/2007 10:32:54 Originally by: Mortania I'll be working this weekend, and I don't have 200,000 live paying customers questioning my integrity this weekend. It is almost as if the whole thing has been timed to have the maximum impact, before it can be addressed .. or am I just being cynical? I'm going to start selling dramallama milk. I'll make a fortune the way everyone here laps the stuff up. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:34:00 - [1311] Edited by: Mortania on 26/05/2007 10:34:10 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Mortania I'll be working this weekend, and I don't have 200,000 live paying customers questioning my integrity this weekend. It is almost as if the whole thing has been timed to have the maximum impact, before it can be addressed .. or am I just being cynical? I'm going to start selling dramallama milk. I'll make a fortune they way everyone here laps the stuff up. It crossed my mind as I was typing it too. It's no less tinfoily than some of the other stuff people mention. Edit: it doesn't change the fact that just because it's a long weekend CCP can ignore this until Tuesday. That would be a big PR misstep. --- CCP: Please disallow your employees from playing normal player accounts.
Lockon VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:35:00 - [1312] Here is what I think CCP, get some transparency in your affairs and deal with the conflicts of interest you seem to create. Even if this is not true, you have lost alot of peoples faith.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Glauxian Brothers Ground Zeero	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:35:00 - [1313] Originally by: luminoll Quote: CCP being contacted via MSN rather than petition? Who cares? Thats favoritism plain and simple. I work as a systems admin. I have had people ask me how much vacation time they had left. I could tell them but that would be unethical. They have to go through proper channels, namely human resources. Abusing my privelidge to access all files is unethical. If I have to go through a petition process, then everyone should. I am bit concerned about this too, if "big" alliances (not necessarily bob) are "in terms" with the ccp staff there's certain danger that things get out of hand like it really seems to have happened here. Specially if initial "petition" about said pos thingy was kind of ignored. Generally people want fair treatment and equal rights. Common reason for revolutions.
Barbaro55a Caldari Os Lobos Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:36:00 - [1314] WOW! long thread, took me ages to read it all and the open letter is very disturbing, if proven true, its a shame, and quite frankly embaresing for CCP if it's found that after numerous scandles and accusations they still havn't got their house in order. They even set up an internal investigation department, allthough this now seems like an empty gesture when their is a club within BoB and CCP that deem it "normal" to get in game favours from the GM, and Devs.. Its akin to getting free goals or at least preferential treatment for being friends with a referee, actions that only a minority would consider moral. I hope CCP sorts this out, or i'm afraid that the cancelation of my accounts may be the only way forwad. Their is really no point playing, on what seems to be a one sided playng field. Eve as a game rocks, but their MUST be a line between the player base and the developers. I know they must play the game in order to develope it further, but if they can't make the distinction between fair play and cheating, i'm not sure their the sort of people that i'd want handling my bank account details, personal details, and the content of a game i (up to now) have enjoyed massivly. Not to mention, how can CCP want staff working for them that missuse company assets and power in such a way when it is clearly damaging their reputation. Please sort this out CCP, after years of gaming, we the players deserve more than the current silence and censorship stance that your taking. .......................................... We come in peace - My sig and your sig would make cute baby sigs.
Katamaranus	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:37:00 - [1315] snip Ranting is not constructive. -Rauth
Barbaro55a Caldari Os Lobos Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:42:00 - [1316] snip Please don't discuss moderator actions on the forums. Thanks, Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) .......................................... We come in peace - My sig and your sig would make cute baby sigs.
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:42:00 - [1317] Originally by: Captain Crimson It's a game, there's bound to be cheats in it like any other. Like hackers on Source. Some people just stop at nothing to have a complete control over the game, as that's human nature at it's worst. Unfortunately some people let this megalomaniac inside of them turn them into selfish monsters who cause things like this and lots of time wasting on everyone part, as well as a lot of trust lost. On topic.... I say just set all the members at -10 and keep them in the south to war forever more Hackers in source is a pretty poor comparison. There are hackers/exploiters in eve as well and they eventually meet their punishment. A better comparison to source would be if Valve employees were helping the counter terrorists beat the terrorists despite once before getting called on it and nearly driving everyone from the game. Also, people are expected to pay $15 a month to play the game this way.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:43:00 - [1318] Edited by: Vaeldan Athargan on 26/05/2007 10:42:24 disregard
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:51:00 - [1319] I hereby demand Catalysm Enterprises' Erebus titan back, dear bob-friend Admiral_Chamrajnagar!! Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
Jotan Veer HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:51:00 - [1320] Edited by: Jotan Veer on 26/05/2007 10:51:15 Originally by: Eaiaden How hard can it be?, other MMORPG's out there can do it, just look at the grand old one EverQuest, or WoW for that matter, EQ been running 8 years now and never a corrupition scandal. Meh, I played EQ for almost 3 years (was a fansite forum mod for 2), there were SOE employees fired for abusing their powers, several times.
Comstr Technology Acquisition Collective Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:51:00 - [1321] Edited by: Comstr on 26/05/2007 10:51:23 Originally by: Eldo Davip FYI, It's holiday weekend in US and many parts of Europe. Therefore CCP staffmay be on holidays or taking a break. Not completely sure though. Well I'm sure after the last Fiasco that happened over a holiday period, CCP has policies and procedures to get answers and things done, over a holiday period unlike last time.
Barbaro55a Caldari Os Lobos Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:52:00 - [1322] I can imagine CCP all sat in a big room, on the pone to BoB. "So BoB, how do you want us to handle this one....?" .......................................... We come in peace - My sig and your sig would make cute baby sigs.
Snake Jankins Minmatar Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:53:00 - [1323] Originally by: Mortania Originally by: Gneeznow I wonder how long before BoB leadership tells their members to shut up on the forums for another 4 months until this all ''blows over'' I say within 18 hours :-P Those were good days, no? You mean the days, when every idiot alt was posting his drivel and the constant whineage on the forum by guys like LiquidVision and others, who hopefully got banned ? ( I don't see him posting anymore, now he's posting on the site that isn't to be mentioned. ) ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
Airata	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:57:00 - [1324] Originally by: squidgee I don't know what thread you've been reading, but this isn't even about the T20 BPO saga. This is about devs possible spying on alliances using their in-game powers. This is about the fact that BoB and CCP are so buddy buddy that a mere MSN conversation can get someone banned from the game. This sort of preferential treatment amounts to an unfair advantage on the part of BoB. Furthermore, it is completely unprofessional for CCP employees to be actively engaged in tipping the balance of their game in favor of one group of players or another. It's CCP's job to run the game, not to fix it. We don't pay $15 every month to play a rigged, and thus unfun, game. We pay $15 every month to compete with each other on a level playing field. I have no problem with CCP having friends in the game. I have a serious problem with CCP giving those friends any sort of preferential treatment, which appears to be the case with BoB. This is exactly what i think
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:57:00 - [1325] Originally by: Xordus Edited by: Xordus on 26/05/2007 10:51:16 Goons... Please stop whining and just quit the game already. Enough threats, enough blubbery propaganda. Just quit. I have no idea why the community is ignorant enough to listen to these deranged and exaggerated accusations but please just leave the game and take the stupidity with you. We'd much rather see you/BoB quit. We rather enjoy the game, just not the cheaters and those that support them (you).
Sickari	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:57:00 - [1326] bahh i think ccp will let us bore to death! go home everybody ... "Please understand that this may not be today or tomorrow....." maybe in...2020?
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:59:00 - [1327] I don't know what to make of this. I know people in BoB and they're nice guys and i'm sure work hard in game and have fun. But that doesn't prove anything one way or the other... Now two key corpmates are threatening to quit Eve on the basis of this and past incidents (well one was leaving already). I just want to have fun and play, and now my corp is in direct danger of falling apart. That isn't fun Khaldari
justcheckingthemarket	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:59:00 - [1328] personally my problem (and i gues many people will agree) is that there just isn't a alternative to eve. there simply is no other game that has the oppurtunities and the freedoms thas eve offers, unfortunately! if another company (one that actually knows how to put up a mmorpg) would make a game compareable to eve, would develop it properly (not flood new content in instead of fixing long existing issues), a company that knows how to handle theyr employees ^^ i am shure this would give eve a very hard time surviving (not that i whis this game to die, i just want to play a propper game) but due to the lack of alternatives i'll stick with eve (as well as most of the people complaining in this post) eventhougt ist's absolutely obvious that a LOT of this went wrong (maybe they still do, but hey there's no proof so who cares).
Robin Sherwood	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:00:00 - [1329] Originally by: Orange Species i don't think anyone else needs to post here tbh, just let goons/goon alts go on a rampage, they make themselves look more like idiots than any of us could make them look :) No wonder you normally have a perm-forum ban :) *awaits replies from goons of wargh off-topic wargh, deflection,wargh but but but but but" Quit whilst your not ahead. Admitting that your post is off-topic and deflection by no means prevents it from being off-topic and deflection. -1/10
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:00:00 - [1330] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 26/05/2007 10:32:54 Originally by: Mortania I'll be working this weekend, and I don't have 200,000 live paying customers questioning my integrity this weekend. It is almost as if the whole thing has been timed to have the maximum impact, before it can be addressed .. or am I just being cynical?
Kian Jorry Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:00:00 - [1331] Well, I had my doubts once, but I became convinced that devs need to play the game when I found out how superbly balanced supercaps are.
Shogie Etiene Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:01:00 - [1332] I'll wait for the IA reply before I draw any conclusions on this. I have always thought it a good thing that the devs play their own game, whether for entertainment or getting a feel for what the players experience. The only concern I have in all this is the MSN thing (and I imagine CCP is reading Dianabolic's posts and cringing a little). That is another catch22 all together. Granted it shouldn't be a big deal to be friends with CCP staff and be able to chit chat with them on MSN. But for anything concerning the game it should be handled through the petition system. Well because, frankly, it probably isn't the guys job at the other end of MSN to handle those things, and for them to take any action to correct that kind of situation would be out of the ordinary and shines of impropriety. I'd imagine that kind of situation is exactly what will get a dev in trouble. Here's hoping it all turns out for the better. Oh, and for the record I take no side in the fight out there.. yet :P Work is easy, laziness is an artform.
SirDregann IV Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:01:00 - [1333] Maybe nows a time to take a break from eve
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:01:00 - [1334] Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. This is a fantastic post btw.
Eaiaden	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:01:00 - [1335] I totally agree, i am also in the war on the goon side alliance, and im not saying this is BoB's fault, its the GM's that do this, and they are prolly only a minority, but still, one cheating GM will ruin the fun for thousands, think about that CCP. Stop CCP staff from being on the live server, staff members should imo only be on the test server.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:03:00 - [1336] Originally by: Jotan Veer Edited by: Jotan Veer on 26/05/2007 10:51:15 Originally by: Eaiaden How hard can it be?, other MMORPG's out there can do it, just look at the grand old one EverQuest, or WoW for that matter, EQ been running 8 years now and never a corrupition scandal. Meh, I played EQ for almost 3 years (was a fansite forum mod for 2), there were SOE employees fired for abusing their powers, several times. Yep, exactly, they were fired. There is a world of difference in how companies discipline their employees. Some fire them, some give them a very harsh talking to. Which approach do you think prevents future corruption the most?
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:05:00 - [1337] Originally by: Kerfira Lots of years ago, I was a founder/developer on a MUD. It was a fairly succesful one too, with 1000's of players, and often 100+ online at the time. Small by EVE standards I know, but large for 1992... Now, we tried to keep devs out of the game, but found it simply didn't work. To put it as it was, our devs couldn't create balanced/good game content unless they played it too! We could create all kind of wonderful stuff, which worked perfectly in our own minds and theories, but once it was released in game and interacted with other parts, the flaws showed up quickly. The only way we had to make the game a good one was to play the game ourselves in all aspects. That meant we had to kill stuff, we had to PvP, we had to be guild members, we had to fight in gangs etc..... I believe CCP can do no different. The devs HAS to play the game (including the alliance parts) to keep the game viable. For every hour they spent playing the game they could have gathered data on 1000s of players interacting with the same content and gotten data that represented more than just thier experience. If they need face time, they could do this in a test arena and not influenced the events that normal customers had. --- CCP: Please disallow your employees from playing normal player accounts.
Alidartu A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:06:00 - [1338] Edited by: Alidartu on 26/05/2007 11:05:53 Edited by: Alidartu on 26/05/2007 11:05:17 I wanted to stay out of this but I canÆt resist. I said at the time of the T20 incident that this is just the tip of the iceberg. This only goes to prove I was right. Do you really this that this event is the only other thing to have happened with BOD's favour... HELL NO! Is it really any surprise to us that itÆs happened again? Nothing anyone in BOD or CCP can say will now make any difference to what we all think sitting on this side of the fence. This game is BROKEN and whatÆs worse is we still have to pay for it! Thanks CCP!
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:06:00 - [1339] Originally by: Eaiaden I totally agree, i am also in the war on the goon side alliance, and im not saying this is BoB's fault, its the GM's that do this, and they are prolly only a minority, but still, one cheating GM will ruin the fun for thousands, think about that CCP. Stop CCP staff from being on the live server, staff members should imo only be on the test server. How can you experience a big fleet battle (with lag from the TQ setup) on the test server? How can you experience a functional market on the test server? How can you monitor EXISTING conditions on TQ on the test server? Look at my above post on how your solution is nice in theory, but doesn't work in reality. It's quite simple actually: TQ != SISI Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Necro EvilZombie North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:06:00 - [1340] Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. exactly
Juliette Red Jags Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:06:00 - [1341] Same old same old. Id bet every last ISK that Sharkbait wouldnt do anything to jeopardise his job. Hell he could execute one SQL statement and only a select few would know about it and everything could be gone. If you seriously think that someone would log on to a corp and fix their BPOs that CANT be locked down due to a bug is doing it to try and improve any alliance his part of then you are a **in idiot. As to all the Goons posting e , usual ****s from SA , more forum warrior than game player. Strange how this has all come out when GS are starting to lose space again ?? Wonder if these stories are manufactured and spun to make sure that the "OMG we are all n00bs we blob u in our ibis LOLOL" wits look as squeaky clean as possible. The GS PR machine is in full effect once more , **in idoits IMO game will be better off if they leave.
BuIIseye Amarr Pax Amarria Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:07:00 - [1342] Originally by: Mortania I'll be working this weekend, and I don't have 200,000 live paying customers questioning my integrity this weekend. If you think me and alot of people i know that live in 0.0 who shoot at BoB are going to stop playing this game because GoonSwarm are loseing their space and want to finish off this war and eventualy the game in the way it started by throwing crap at CCP, then you are insane, no doubt about it.
PunkRoadkill	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:08:00 - [1343] Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. This is a fantastic post btw. i have to agree, a rather well put post.
Damares Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:09:00 - [1344] Edited by: Damares on 26/05/2007 11:07:50 This is why God doesnt interfere, its like living under a dictatorship, you can do nothing but face the fact that you cant do ANYTHING about it.... its quite sad actualy, getting dev's to cheat for you (i accept not all, but those that do) is like marking your own practice exam paper and changing wrong answer to right ones.... where the sense? it doesnt mean anything, its just stupid, plain and simple, the cheater might think people are impressed with how they can get their own way, like a little spoilt child, but really, no one has one drop of respect for them... ccp, you really need to punish cheating staff more severely, with very limited concequences theyll risk getting caught anyway because all thats going to happen is a little naming and shaming....
Katamaranus	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:09:00 - [1345] OK, NOW I UNDERSTAND, EVERYONE WHO SAYS TRUTH AND DEMAND FAST ACTIONS, THEIR POSTS GET DELETED. YOU SAY RANTING IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE? WELL, IT WAS VERY CONSTRUCTIVE TO MY MIND, AS IT WAS REALLY TO THE POINT. SITUATION IN THIS GAME COULD NOT BE DESCRIBED AS "CONSTRUCTIVE" EITHER. Ok, I will say it in other words. CCP employees playing this game make a room for cheating and exploiting, by helping certain alliances. I kindly ask to remove them from the game. Me personally and, I believe, most of the community, are insulted by such cases.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:10:00 - [1346] Originally by: doyoulikemytightsweater Just in a nutshell - can anyone explain what exactly really happened ? It's fairly simple. We all know that you can't have your cake, and eat it too. CCP think they can.
Verulam Gallente Capital Experiments	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:10:00 - [1347] What I'd like to see is a representation of just how many GM's/Devs are related directly to BOB compared to how many there are in the game vs. total amount of players. Right now things are overly suspicious in terms to how BOB is represented. It has been suggested to me by numourous players that BOB is overly respresented - I would like to seean official differentiation ( a Breakdfown if you will ) of how true this is. I feel this is important as that no matter how long after the last CCP intervention with BOB was - People do not forget such matters easily!
TheHornet Gallente Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:11:00 - [1348] Edited by: TheHornet on 26/05/2007 11:12:27 OMG - this one grows faster than a tellurian womprat can whistle serious, CCP, you have to handle this as fast as possible apart from all "mud-throwing", apart from all fact's in detail, the playerbase is in a bad phase of non-trust the "ones above" for a lot of us, EVE is our own "second life", we are here hours after hours and from this fact, we mean to have a right to know the truth we all are humans, with the right to make mistakes - no one blames you IF you "feed" us with the truth a lot of us lost this "childish" kind of trust reinstate it (as good as possible) and hope - if there is something - for our forgiving remember (and that goes to all of us) - forgiving is also a part of humanity (like trust) - after all - it is a game - you can turn around and play something else
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:13:00 - [1349] Originally by: Mortania Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... For every hour they spent playing the game they could have gathered data on 1000s of players interacting with the same content and gotten data that represented more than just thier experience. That is true... but only PROVIDING that their data collection and analysis tools are up to the job!!!! It is also only true for purely techical matters, like in "How many DPS does the average Raven do?" How do you gather opinions about how people perceive certain features in the game? How do you identify what annoys people? How do you identify what new content is desired in the game? How do you identify imbalances in the game caused by unforeseen interactions between features? The best (and probably only) way is to be in a corp/alliance where things are discussed and experienced.... ....and don't mention the forum as a reliable source of information on these issues, filled with whiners as it is... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Hermosa Diosas	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:13:00 - [1350] Originally by: Kerfira Lots of years ago, I was a founder/developer on a MUD. It was a fairly succesful one too, with 1000's of players, and often 100+ online at the time. Small by EVE standards I know, but large for 1992... Now, we tried to keep devs out of the game, but found it simply didn't work. To put it as it was, our devs couldn't create balanced/good game content unless they played it too! We could create all kind of wonderful stuff, which worked perfectly in our own minds and theories, but once it was released in game and interacted with other parts, the flaws showed up quickly. The only way we had to make the game a good one was to play the game ourselves in all aspects. That meant we had to kill stuff, we had to PvP, we had to be guild members, we had to fight in gangs etc..... I believe CCP can do no different. The devs HAS to play the game (including the alliance parts) to keep the game viable. Agreed . However this isnt the point people are happy theat devs/staff play, the point being made is devs are given other people like BoB 'special treatment' why do they get msn access and no one else? free t2 blueprints, special favours, its strange ASCN a massive alliance just 'disappeared' and stuff like that. I dont feel eve is a game now its seems too serious and too political etc, ffs IT IS A GAME, isnt it? Ive been in some big alliances and well its scary sometimes how serious this game is being taken, really these guys really do believe they are intergalatic warloards or powerful ceos, it is really that scary sometimes. But onto the topic, if you was a dev wouldnt you be doing the same? giving your 'mates' some nice mods or cash, i mean whos gonna know eh? hack the database, change a value to back 1000 billion instead of 10, tweak some skills and wallets? t2 bpo here and there. I mean its only a small thing isnt it!?? We NO its not! not when there are people paying cash to get forward in this game, not when people already struggle with the mechanics, and overpriced market and unbalanced world etc. Why should others get a leg up? i mean these alliances are already rich and own their spaces they dont need anymore, they have cap ships, titans, everything. This isnt a single player game where you stick a trainer on to give more cash etc, this is multiplayer with real player, paying money to play!! However lets look at the evidence..a letter, and a electronic one at that, what does that prove? absolutely naff all, anyone could type up a letter and say its real, thats all the evidence we have nothing more nothing less, im not saying it isnt true or false but how can you really have a opinion on just a letter that may not be real. More evidence is needed as this just isnt good enough, you took this to court they would laugh at you, as its CIRCUMSTANTIAL there is not concrete proof (as yet) this actually took place.. I hope for CCP and the players sake its an elaborate scheme by Goons (which are another massive alliance however).
General Apocalypse Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:14:00 - [1351] Edited by: General Apocalypse on 26/05/2007 11:13:36 Dear whiners i have only one Request ? Can I have your stuff/Isk/chars ? /me opens tinfoil hat shop . Realy give CCP a god dam chance , goons spaming on the EVE-O it's not going to help anyone. And it won't make Rev 2 come faster to save RA from the Alliance Thank You SkyFlyer
Eaiaden	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:15:00 - [1352] Originally by: Jotan Veer Edited by: Jotan Veer on 26/05/2007 10:51:15 Originally by: Eaiaden How hard can it be?, other MMORPG's out there can do it, just look at the grand old one EverQuest, or WoW for that matter, EQ been running 8 years now and never a corrupition scandal. Meh, I played EQ for almost 3 years (was a fansite forum mod for 2), there were SOE employees fired for abusing their powers, several times. So true, same as players got banned for using hax and cheats making them god like with dps in the millions or the one and only "no-KoS" macro making u able to run to hard to get bosses easily with mobs ignorring you, yea i too know of theese incidents. And do u really compare a few indivudals cheating for their own gain with this, here in EVE, witch inpacts on thousnads in both alliances ?
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:16:00 - [1353] Edited by: Avrunath on 26/05/2007 11:17:48 Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Avrunath Why dont you guys just fight your f*ing war with fair weapons, without spoiling the game for everyone else? Who are you talking to? I am talking to whom ever takes the war over the usual game mechanics and dont give ** about the others. Everybody participating in acts like this happening is taking part in ruining the game. Why would anybody want that from us? We are supposed to not forget that we kinda sit in the same boat. I dont take sides in this one, well i might take the side of the whole community. And you cant just say that there was nothing happening, there where things in the past happening and there still are things happening. I dont like it at all, i love this game and i would like to have everybody think about what effects their acting will have in the end. Nobody can get away with cheating, sorry but i dont believe a word CCP said in the statement. And its a giveaway that you guys from the big alliances not only BoB, but mainly benefit from your contacts to CCP personal and i dont think this should be in the way it is done. Please dont tell me you get absolutely nothing out of it, it happenend in the past and i think its still happening. I hope we all be smart about this, stop pointing fingers and stop ruining the game for everyone. This is my believe, if you dont share it, well its a free world. I can have mine and you can have yours. But still i hope we all can find a base and fight our wars in the game with fun, not with a grudge against anyone that is not the same opinion than himself. And not with the will to destroy the opponent's real life, some guys taking this game really over the edge. Have Fun guys and think about this.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:17:00 - [1354] Edited by: Garia666 on 26/05/2007 11:17:05 The problem with CCP is that they arent professionals running a buisness. The most are friends playing a game to gether making good money out of it. You can see that in everything they do.. Improfessional behavior \ dev blogs \actions all around.. Having devs playing the game as normal players which is asking fro problems.. They have created an envoirment which is impossible to stay true and honest. People should wake up quickly... Thinking that CCP is an honest organisation. Its not.. There people playing a game.. ->My Vids<-
Tahmee Bhakeur	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:18:00 - [1355] Complete transparency and honesty are needed now more than ever. 49 pages with probably half calling for podding and half of the remaining just enjoying the drama with the remainder being as constructive as a grenade in corn silo. At this point, the heads of the company will probably have to do a full series of EVE TV about everything found and make all logs a matter of public record. If bound by law to keep the employees around, turn all their characters into members of various starter and secondary npc corps. This way they keep their precious jobs, but the only way to play is as a true member of the community assisting new players and those in the npc corps after players have left player created corps/alliances. These players are never allowed to join player corporations or give items/isk to anyone and their tools gone. If something requiring uber tools is necessary, someone else can do it. There should be at least 3 GM/DEV's required to employ GM/DEV tools, logs showing who, what, when, where, why and how so that inappropriate usage vanishes or if it does occur those responsible can be held accountable. No GM/DEV should have a character in a player corporation or alliance. Neither should they have to join a corp/alliance to deal with issues. All problems so far have been caused by GM/DEV's having characters in player alliances. That most of the problems all seem to involve the same group time and time again is what puts people off, convinces them to cancel accounts, tell their friends in other forums (there are tons of "other" eve forums) to avoid EVE due to impropriety (real or imagined), and regardless of who is involved taints community perception that all play by the rules and mechanics of the game. Too many believed the T2 BPO lottery was rigged - allegation of GM/DEV misconduct resulted in T2 BPO's being taken away from a certain group -crappy ones it seems, but still T2 BPO's. If one group was assisted in this manner, certainly others may have. Complaints that ships inside POS force fields were being hit by aggressors outside the POS... showed to be that all in the invasion fleet were fitted with passive targeters -something quickly fixed, but again GM/DEV misconduct in the air. Complexes in certain territories being geared to respawn in extremely short time periods for insane amounts of isk/mods, when found and petitioned the complexes were shutdown and retooled without any public statement by CCP as to what was discovered or why the complexes were so distinctly different from comparable complexes. SPAWNS/LOOT -again, there are those who believe that this too is something manipulated by GM/DEV characters for certain parties or just for themselves (which benefits their corp/alliance) in isolated areas beyond prying eyes. Events -who knows what goes on behind closed doors. Some believe some events are rigged because groups seem to have been handed incredible rewards. Again, nobody knows, but it is the public perception -right or wrong- that matters. GM/DEV toons being caught in the act of doing things they definitely shouldn't be doing. Claims of them warping players to unintended locations, dropping them out of warp, disabling their ships, crashing them to desktop, warping themselves in ways that are obviously outside normal mechanics, etc... rumors, perhaps, but only transparency can disspell such things. For all the screaming here, one thing is being screamed the loudest. Be Honest.
Galtan Deus	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:18:00 - [1356] Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post.
Pie Cakes	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:18:00 - [1357] Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Xordus Edited by: Xordus on 26/05/2007 10:51:16 Goons... Please stop whining and just quit the game already. Enough threats, enough blubbery propaganda. Just quit. I have no idea why the community is ignorant enough to listen to these deranged and exaggerated accusations but please just leave the game and take the stupidity with you. We'd much rather see you/BoB quit. We rather enjoy the game, just not the cheaters and those that support them (you). In all fairness, if a significant portion of the playerbase leaves, it will be the end of EVE.
Hermosa Diosas	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:19:00 - [1358] Edited by: Hermosa Diosas on 26/05/2007 11:18:42 Originally by: Pie Cakes Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Xordus Edited by: Xordus on 26/05/2007 10:51:16 Goons... Please stop whining and just quit the game already. Enough threats, enough blubbery propaganda. Just quit. I have no idea why the community is ignorant enough to listen to these deranged and exaggerated accusations but please just leave the game and take the stupidity with you. We'd much rather see you/BoB quit. We rather enjoy the game, just not the cheaters and those that support them (you). In all fairness, if a significant portion of the playerbase leaves, it will be the end of EVE. I dont think people will leave, ony a few perhaps, it happened before, it got brushed under the carpet, life and eve went on..
Adam Weishaupt Minmatar Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:21:00 - [1359] Either there is documented precedence for doing what the GM did, and this is a political incident, or there is not, and he either took an unauthorized shortcut or did something deliberately malicious and either way he's royally screwed and must, positively must, be fired. And just for the record, I don't think GMs should be running full-time characters in game, too. The chance for corruption is too great, and the potential loss of face from an incident, well, you see what an internet lynch mob can do. It's a shame they might be right. We work harder, we care more. I believe it. Time to show it.
Karim alRashid Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:21:00 - [1360] To CCP Internal Affairs Department: In the light of recent confirmation of friendly relationship between CCP staff and certain elements of the player base and the allegations from the recent past of a CCP employee giving in-depth game mechanics advice to subsets of players (Corelum Corp. if I remember correctly), as opposed to properly documenting it in "EVE Online Player Guide": 1. What are the technical or other measures, employed by IA dept for preventing the conveying of internal game information from CCP staff to players? Do these measure cover both in-game and out-of-game information channels? 2. Is IA dept aware of the "Doctrine of Inevitable Disclosure" (and does it recognize its applicability to online gaming) and the concept of "conflict of interest" and is there a policy and concrete measures to deal with them ? 3. What are technical or other measures for preventing interested parties from obtaining "trade secret" information about game competitors ? Do developer players have also SQL query level access to EVE "database" ? Thank you.
Kesc	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:22:00 - [1361] Edited by: Kesc on 26/05/2007 11:22:03 Originally by: Kayl Breinhar Earlier in this thread Dianabolic namedropped several people who supposedly have had direct contact to Devs outside the game. To my knowledge the only direct contact Goonswarm has ever had with the Dev staff has been at the Fanfest Ooh I don't know about that. GM Sunshine? Personal account on your private forums before he got his hand slapped? How do you suppose he had the arrangement for that account setup for him hmm? Some sort of messenger application contact with Remedial perhaps? Bet he is not the only one Remedial used to talk to either. So let's all agree that if CCP have no rules about old players and alliance leaders having some sort of contact and leeway for talking with the staff at CCP, it is okay and not necessarily indicative of cheating. All of this bitterness and determination to find excuses for losing to BoB
mardburg	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:23:00 - [1362] Im waiting the official statement. But is sure funny to see how many alts those goons use to throw more petrol to the fire.
Mahavy Seth Amarr Vure Ultio Animi Causa	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:23:00 - [1363] Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post. /signed
Red Gabba Use Of Weapons	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:23:00 - [1364] 50 Pages of drama 1) Goons start to lose in the south 2) Goons see something they don't like 3) Goons spam forums and bring them down (well done) 4) lots of goons quit (can i have your stuff please?) If there has been misconduct im sure ccp will deal with it, if no misconduct happened then sadly Goons will still not be happy until the devs head is on a platter, im sure they will call for the banning of members of Bob, CCP know this and thanks to them are put in a difficult situation I hope CCP will deal with this as they see fit and not listen to the many drama queens, I also hope they consider handing out perma bans for the idiots that spammed the forums.. There are many reasons to dislike the goonswarm membership, this has now been added to that list
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:24:00 - [1365] Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post. /signed i fully agree ->My Vids<-
TeufelsBeitrag Academy of Decadence	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:24:00 - [1366] Please notice: My character is only two month old, i am not an alt. I am not amused about this. CCP is losing credibility through actions like that, credibility they will never get back. And things like "it's holidays, wait till we decide to be professionals" dont speak in their favor. "Working on weekends just because we may loose a big chunk of our playerbase? No way!" I think adressing this issue was the right thing to do, spamming the forums was probably not. But when threads got deleted, people tend to go into nerd rage. No goon is destroying EvE for me, corruption and ignorance (hi KSDruid) does.
Telkanes Serkant Caldari Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:25:00 - [1367] This is terrible, If BoB have access to information from CCP directly and can have people removed from ISD....Then they MUST be broken up and it starts to prove everyone's thoerys right :\| I dont want to play a game where its weighted towards the Dev's Chums there's no point to playing if Someone rings up CCP and says "BTW can you check a corp out for us, we might lose a battle!" This needs to be addressed ASAP or EVE may be tainted im afraid BoB already is by the comments posted, I suggest they and thier "friends" sort this one big time, im afraid "everythings ok" in a day or so is not going to cut it this time. Time to Step up CCP -Telk
ElAurens Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:33:00 - [1368] Unbelievable. This stuff just keeps coming out and CCP/ISD keep trying to cover up. Where there is smoke there is fire. CCP get your house in order and disassociate yourselves from BoB or this game is meaningless for those who've fought for 0.0 space against BoB because you played against them with BoB. Unless you bring full transparency to this issue you're killing your own game. Heavy handed moderation, suppression, vague statements about how you've 'addressed' the issue, denial of involvement aren't going to cut it this time or anytime in the future. I don't believe you anymore and neither do lots of other people.

CCP Arkanon	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:34:00 - [1369] Hi again. While I fully understand that people want information and answers to their questions, please consider that there is still considerable work to be done in compiling and investigating the various allegations posted in this thread and elsewhere. Updates will be posted as we go on, I simply can not guarantee exactly when we'll have this matter sewn up and ready as a coherent report. I will report in as often as I can, provided there are confirmed news to share with you. There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. CCP Arkanon CCP Internal Affairs [email protected]

Neo Rainhart Caldari kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:34:00 - [1370] Edited by: Neo Rainhart on 26/05/2007 11:33:13 I must write something regarding this issue although i promised myself to give a flying something about it. This wont change my opinion of eve online being the best game ever..as long as the poor ratters and carebears are not receiving help from dev's, i couldnt care less about issues like this. Now, people, don't stick your heads WHERE ITS NOT NEEDED I wish the best of luck for you guys in CCP..my trust for you will never fade!
Teinyhr Minmatar Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:35:00 - [1371] Originally by: General Apocalypse Edited by: General Apocalypse on 26/05/2007 11:13:36 Dear whiners i have only one Request ? Can I have your stuff/Isk/chars ? /me opens tinfoil hat shop . Realy give CCP a god dam chance , goons spaming on the EVE-O it's not going to help anyone. And it won't make Rev 2 come faster to save RA from the Alliance /signed I want your ISK and stuff, chars you can leave to rot for all I care. ------------------- Originally by: Smagd Besides, specialization is for insects.
Noogy Minmatar Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:36:00 - [1372] Originally by: Garia666 Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post. /signed i fully agree This. Such a good product, such a bad management. Not the first time, not the last :(
Jack Kidd	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:37:00 - [1373] If you are so incensed by this, the simplest course of action would be to pool your resources against BoB and let your fists do the talking in game. There are plenty of people who feel the same way that you do. Maybe you need to have a word with them in quiet corners and share your dissent and resources and angst and anger. I am sure there are many more players here who are not in BoB or their affiliates than are. In a simple numbers game you'd win. I'm not sure how many ibises it would take to take down a POS or Titan but it might be fun one day to find out. Or other cheap, easily replaced ships against higher value targets, ships or stations. Just make sure it costs them more than it costs you. Echos of swarm tactics, or "borg assimilation" here. many small targets are harder to take down than one big one. Especially if you think smart and stay outside of smart bomb radii :) If BoB or their affiliates are being assisted and you take this action you will soon obtain your clear proof. Or not, as the case may be. You have an account, you have a vote, you have action you can take in game. Why not do so. And if you decide to, i may have an alt "somewhere" that would be prepared to help. Could be a fun thing to do. After all it is only a game....Is it not? :) Kidd.
Ratzap Gallente Old Farts	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:38:00 - [1374] Originally by: Sc0rpion You know...I played Everquest for 7 years. Sony did some pretty crappy things during that time, but one thing I never worried about was staff misconduct. I'm disgusted. Again. QFT, my feeling exactly! I left EQ after over 7 years to escape to a better game. The game IS great but the way it is run makes Sony look squeaky clean. The last year and a bit here have just been one stupid avoidable scandal after another. Devs (or employees period) and players should not have any contact at all, let alone "MSN me if you need". If your people are lonely, employ a shrink to listen to them but this crosstalk to the player base is plain wrong. Show some cajones CCP and fix this mess. Ratzap
Merc998	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:39:00 - [1375] Edited by: Merc998 on 26/05/2007 11:41:09 Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi again. , I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. Given this statement Could you then explain the following: 1. Why the original post was deleted without warning causing the goons to spam the forums to get the issue addressed 2. Why accounts have been banned trying to ensure this was addressed 3. Why issues from the T20 affair adressed time and time again in that thread were ignored/not answered by yourself 4. Why E-mails to you have been constantly ignored/unanswered on dev misconduct 5. Why requests to you to investigate the LV mothership RP arc have been 100% ignored Seriosly Arkanon, given the current track record of the IA dept I have very little faith you will do anything except what you are really paid for, DAMAGE CONTROL to save you the effort here is your responses already for you to use as white wash.. Issue 1. Sharkbait in DS1 Corps as a director. Arkanons answer " In the course of his work Sharkbait stumbled apon a bug in DS1 POS's and took it on hmself to fix them without informing DS! leaders, he has been reminded that he should inform the corps CEO's in future this issue is now closed" Issue 2. DS1 Petition Arkanons answer "A new GM accidently deleted the petition he has been reprimanded for not bringing the accident to a higher GM, This issue is now closed" Issue 3. Arkanons answer RP arcs rigged "The ISD Aurora team has been completely revamped since this issue happened and we have complete confidence in the current team that situations like this will never happen again, Issue closed" Issue 4. Arkanons answer Corps/alliances having higher access to GM's/ISD/DEVS. "I do not have access to MSN logs from individuals or CCP employee's as they are not part of the CCP infrastructure, so I cannot confirm or deny that this interaction took place, therefore I cannot persue any further enquiries into this issue, Issue closed"
Telkanes Serkant Caldari Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:41:00 - [1376] Originally by: anubis deathbringer complaining only makes people ignore you more and more. imo if they "hide" this then well they might loose 10 or 20 people. however those people will probably leave anyway. so no worries. imo in a few days this will have been forgotten. we need to move past this. gawd how many people are directly affected by this? i mean ok its bad however Bob might end up being disaplined for his actions. the people who call for his termination are just being crazy. the hate mongers need to chill. CCP isnt going to fired a DEv over this. its hard to find Devs willing to help out. yes most of us would volunteer, however no offence but they dont need us. they need Bob he already knows how it all works. and yes i agree there have been issues galor in 2 days. however i would perfer to have the game and the people @ccp getting issues all at once then having this continue for a year. at least things will return to normal in 2 or 3 days. so in other words stop your whining and wait to see what happens before saying it might end EVE or that your leaving or that CCP are cheaters blah blah. for those of you who think END OF EVE. please by all means leave NOW! it might fix the lag issue if your gone and all your stuff is boff the server. chances are you people will be back in less then a week, playing and hate to say it, enjoying EVE again. U really dont see the point DO you? We PAY for this game and we are entitled to have a fair chance of "winning" the game However, if one set of players are getting freebies from CCP staff including POS intel, then that no longer becomes balanced and it means unless you are with those people you will lose. ISD SHOULD NEVER be threatend by Players like BoB people and for someone to lose there ISD membership from an MSN Convo that is blatant Conflict of interest, as there is no way to track the trail of the complaint.
Steve Holt coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:43:00 - [1377] I want devs on my msn list :( and lonely GMs/Devs looking for a fun time hit me up :D
Ratzap Gallente Old Farts	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:43:00 - [1378] Originally by: Jack Kidd In a simple numbers game you'd win. I'm not sure how many ibises it would take to take down a POS or Titan but it might be fun one day to find out. Or other cheap, easily replaced ships against higher value targets, ships or stations. Just make sure it costs them more than it costs you. You've never met a titan in the field have you? Or a locked system with a player cap? Go take 2000 out to fight, maybe a few hundred actually get into the system and you get converted into killmails while you lag at the gate. CCP are anti-Blobbing remember? It does not work. Ratzap
Ebil Girl	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:43:00 - [1379] On wiki: In February 2007, a player using the alias "Kugutsumen" who is known for getting hold of information through metagaming posted allegations of developer misconduct in relation to one of the ingame alliances, Band of Brothers. Later that week, CCP admitted that they had in fact known of the wrongdoing for over 6 months and apologized for it. The incident involved t20 (one of the software developers), using his developer access to obtain valuable in-game items to benefit Band of Brothers, in which he was part of the leadership. Despite CCP CEO Hilmar PTtursson stating publicly that any conduct of this sort would result in immediate termination, t20 as yet remains at CCP. CCP banned Kugutsumen's accounts for posting real-life info of the developer in question and the use of possibly illegal (hacking) means to retrieve the info. Kugutsumen replied to the accusations of using hacking as means of retrieving the info; CCP's final input in the matter was that Kugutsumen caused CCP unwanted work-load (technically, a violation of the end-user license agreement) and that was enough reason to ban him. Kugutsumen has since continued to post material on his website, and there is considerable debate amongst the player base as to the appropriateness of CCP's response. In response to this incident, CCP set up a Internal Affairs division, dedicated to monitoring the activites of CCP employees in-game, and preventing further incidents. On May 25, 2007 new allegations of developer misconduct were brought to light. These new allegations consist of three main contentions: * the infiltration of a corporation by a CCP employee, who then elevated himself to a directorship position and resigned immediately after entering one of the corporation's stations. * the predetermination of in-game roleplaying events, contrary to CCP's assertion that such events are player-influenced * the alleged use of player influence causing the banning of a volunteer reporter who was present during a major player versus player fleet battle. The players' alliance "Goonswarm" and former player "Kugutsumen" presented these issues to the community in the form of an open letter and blog posts . After massive spamming of Goonswarm's open letter on the forums, the developers shut the forums down completely. Half an hour later, the forums were restored. CCP had also created a news item and forum thread for discussion.
RogerWilco Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:43:00 - [1380] CCP plz ban the goonswarm for: 1. Being sore loosers. 2. Trying by social engineering, to spread mistrust in CCP 3. Failing at EVE. Thank you
AshrakTheWhite Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:44:00 - [1381] i think the whole ingame thing is lovely and all. but how does anyone here know that arkaron of IA isnt oevur of doom, for that matter, how can you distinguish between 2 people on the interenet? do you recognize theyr typing style 100%? heh, think bout that if anything. btw conspiracy theorys ftw. - Ash
Cheval Blanc	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:44:00 - [1382] I apologize ahead for the lack of succinctness in my post. My first emphasis is that this affects all EVE players, regardless of race, faction, corporation, status, and affiliation. The issue at hand is simply not what is or has been said, but rather what has not. This thread has already revealed the extent of BoB-CCP (BoD?) ties, in essence, from the pure nonchalance of BoB members arrogantly flailing, even in moments of spite, of their personal ties built up between "their friends" and them for the past four years of playing EVE. Their accusations of "metagaming" amongst the accusers stops here - for they would be the biggest hypocrites of them all. Unfortunately, this extends to the other side of the relationship - light has been shed on and off that CCP has cheated on their professional company-customer conduct. Allegations in the past have been whitewashed - from the (previously) greatest scandal involving CCP t20, to today's poor management by CCP Arkanon. Scandals are not stopped by censorship; scandals are stopped by reconciliation. This will be one of the pivotal points in EVE history, as has been the last. And it will be a dent to what would otherwise be a celebration of a fourth anniversary - for the only thing that will be remembered is how a company cheated for their players to end a four year relationship. Inarguably the greatest damage to come out of such a scandal is not the monetary figures that will affect quarterly earnings -- CCP is a private company; it has no shareholders. Its only obligation is a community of players to whom it serves -- to whom each and every player pays an equal amount of money to partake in a universe of pewpew. Players are the life and blood of CCP. By extension, all players must be treated equally, and any responsible company treats all its subscribers the same -- for they all pay the same subscription. There should be no distinction based on seniority. Any businessman with common sensibility would know the problems of hiring friends into a business. When business goes wrong, you not only lose a worker, but you lose a friend. Let it be no mistake that many BoB and CCP members are friends -- in fact, there have been further allegations of BoB knowing in advance of CCP openings. So now CCP has a very difficult decision to make -- will they keep their friends, or will they keep their clients. Imagine, you are in a car with your friend and you have run over a child. Your friend decides to make a hit and run. Will you keep silent, loyal to your friend, or will you stand up for what is morally right? A proper business model knows, in this age, that customer is always the bottom line. But quite frankly, there has been too many allegations of collusion between the development of EVE and the development of 0.0 Alliances. Since the creation of Goonfleet and the popularization of fleet warfare, the "anti-blobbing" developments have not gone without notice in its association to specific political agendas. So I return to my original point of what is not said. If CCP funded BoB 100 billion ISK, who would know? If CCP Sharkbait did not leave a trace, who would know he was ever there? If no one caught CCP t20 giving out T2 blueprints, would it have continued? The fact is that players cannot ever know what CCP is doing, for they are Gods of a universe. And the only thing between us, the unwashed masses, and their powers of smite is trust - trust that they would not abuse their powers, and be able to seperate friends from business, especially when their hiring practices are of in-game, 0.0 partisan participants. These allegations are founded allegations - three scandals in one day is nothing to turn a blind eye to. Two scandals brought down Worldcom and Enron. How CCP reacted to an open letter was panic and suppression. This only made it appear as it they had something to hide.
Hugo Maxum	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:45:00 - [1383] Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi again. While I fully understand that people want information and answers to their questions, please consider that there is still considerable work to be done in compiling and investigating the various allegations posted in this thread and elsewhere. Updates will be posted as we go on, I simply can not guarantee exactly when we'll have this matter sewn up and ready as a coherent report. I will report in as often as I can, provided there are confirmed news to share with you. There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. So, the T20 fiasco ended up as a violation of the eula. How many BOB members had their accounts banned? As they recieved the BPO's in a manner that was considered cheating, Who was banned? No one, And you can say no cover up again? I say that is very dishonest. I have paid for two accounts for over two years to keep finding out that you(not you personally)CCP has been breaking the rules and helping others do the same. So now i would like to know, as i am not like some others that just want to cancel the accounts, but i want a refund for my two accounts. I have been cheated for that time period as it is not a level playing field. I do research and get nothing, no dev sending me prints i need. I don't get an instant responce from a dev, or there msn for that matter. I have nothing against any alliance in this game as i have been in a few. But since it is good for some, either make it good for all or give me my money back. As it seems wasted now. Think about that and you may find the views of many who left big alliances to get away from this type of cheating. Well, there is my 2 cents worth.
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:47:00 - [1384] Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi again. While I fully understand that people want information and answers to their questions, please consider that there is still considerable work to be done in compiling and investigating the various allegations posted in this thread and elsewhere. Updates will be posted as we go on, I simply can not guarantee exactly when we'll have this matter sewn up and ready as a coherent report. I will report in as often as I can, provided there are confirmed news to share with you. There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. As much as I respect the Dev team it doesn't look like you are not trying to silence the unhappy ones, pretty much when you failed to lock and counter the goon threadnaught you just went with the flow. Can we hear the reason why the first constructive thread was DELETED? It wasn't breaking any forum violations. Goons had strict orders from The Mittani not to engage the threadnaught mode UNLESS the first thread is closed. You brought it upon yourselves. Also, you have the names of all the people who have violated their power limits, why don't you just ask them instead of giving us void promises about investigating the matter? There is still no proof that bob are involved in this, and I still believe they have nothing to do with this until I'm told otherwise. So everyone please stop your stupid accusations. This is not about BoB, this is about some of the Dev members not doing their work correctly. - BH
TUMBLING TWIN	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:47:00 - [1385] subscription = cancelled do what u like now, bob, devs, whoever. as long as im not paying u for it.
Steve Holt coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:50:00 - [1386] Originally by: TUMBLING TWIN subscription = cancelled do what u like now, bob, devs, whoever. as long as im not paying u for it. Stuff. can i have?
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:51:00 - [1387] Originally by: RogerWilco CCP plz ban the goonswarm for: 1. Being sore loosers. 2. Trying by social engineering, to spread mistrust in CCP 3. Failing at EVE. Thank you Umm, Dianabolic in this thread and apparently Orange Species in some local chat ingame are doing much more to spread mistrust in CCP than Goons ever could. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Hugo Maxum	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:51:00 - [1388] Originally by: RogerWilco CCP plz ban the goonswarm for: 1. Being sore loosers. 2. Trying by social engineering, to spread mistrust in CCP 3. Failing at EVE. Thank you CCP, please Ban BOB for cheating: 1. Being afraid to lose so they need devine intervention. 2. Trying by social engineering, to spread mistrust in CCP 3. Failing at EVE by cheating. Thank you. P.S. Wow, attacking people on forums is easy, grow up.
Gloria Hunnyford Amarr Navy Runners	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:52:00 - [1389] Perhaps someone can set up a seperate forum for the whiners well away from the official ones where you can spam it to your hearts content without it effecting the majority of people who actually enjoy playing the game. You would be amongst fellow whingers with lots of useless polls on how unfair things are especially for you, along with a news page with various hot half baked, misread accusations and leave comments blowing them out of proportion. It could also be censored just to get your backs up even more as thats what you all like the best. Sound good?
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:52:00 - [1390] Originally by: Ebil Girl On wiki: In February 2007, a player using the alias "Kugutsumen" who is known for getting hold of information through metagaming posted allegations of developer misconduct in relation to one of the ingame alliances, Band of Brothers. Later that week, CCP admitted that they had in fact known of the wrongdoing for over 6 months and apologized for it. The incident involved t20 (one of the software developers), using his developer access to obtain valuable in-game items to benefit Band of Brothers, in which he was part of the leadership. Despite CCP CEO Hilmar PTtursson stating publicly that any conduct of this sort would result in immediate termination, t20 as yet remains at CCP. CCP banned Kugutsumen's accounts for posting real-life info of the developer in question and the use of possibly illegal (hacking) means to retrieve the info. Kugutsumen replied to the accusations of using hacking as means of retrieving the info; CCP's final input in the matter was that Kugutsumen caused CCP unwanted work-load (technically, a violation of the end-user license agreement) and that was enough reason to ban him. Kugutsumen has since continued to post material on his website, and there is considerable debate amongst the player base as to the appropriateness of CCP's response. In response to this incident, CCP set up a Internal Affairs division, dedicated to monitoring the activites of CCP employees in-game, and preventing further incidents. On May 25, 2007 new allegations of developer misconduct were brought to light. These new allegations consist of three main contentions: * the infiltration of a corporation by a CCP employee, who then elevated himself to a directorship position and resigned immediately after entering one of the corporation's stations. * the predetermination of in-game roleplaying events, contrary to CCP's assertion that such events are player-influenced * the alleged use of player influence causing the banning of a volunteer reporter who was present during a major player versus player fleet battle. The players' alliance "Goonswarm" and former player "Kugutsumen" presented these issues to the community in the form of an open letter and blog posts . After massive spamming of Goonswarm's open letter on the forums, the developers shut the forums down completely. Half an hour later, the forums were restored. CCP had also created a news item and forum thread for discussion. hehe, that kinda reminded me Warren Commission :D - BH
Laudicia Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:52:00 - [1391] Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 26/05/2007 11:17:05 The problem with CCP is that they arent professionals running a buisness. The most are friends playing a game to gether making good money out of it. You can see that in everything they do.. Improfessional behavior \ dev blogs \actions all around.. Having devs playing the game as normal players which is asking fro problems.. They have created an envoirment which is impossible to stay true and honest. People should wake up quickly... Thinking that CCP is an honest organisation. Its not.. There people playing a game.. signed
pipvac Sacred Templars DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:53:00 - [1392] After reading the vast majority of the posts in this thread there is one very alarming thing missing from the tone of all of the replies regarding misconduct...thats shock and surprise. Chilling.
Bobafeit The SMITE Brotherhood Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:53:00 - [1393] Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post. signed
jeffb GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:54:00 - [1394] Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi again. While I fully understand that people want information and answers to their questions, please consider that there is still considerable work to be done in compiling and investigating the various allegations posted in this thread and elsewhere. Updates will be posted as we go on, I simply can not guarantee exactly when we'll have this matter sewn up and ready as a coherent report. I will report in as often as I can, provided there are confirmed news to share with you. There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. Right that explains why the first mentions of this were deleted from the forums in about 30 seconds and also explains why people have had their accounts banned for talking about it in game.
Airata	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:58:00 - [1395] Originally by: RogerWilco CCP plz ban the goonswarm for: 1. Being sore loosers. 2. Trying by social engineering, to spread mistrust in CCP 3. Failing at EVE. Thank you CCP plz ban BoB for cheating and smacktalking. Oh wait, you cant ban yourself
Murkelost Swedish Aerospace Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:59:00 - [1396] Lets move the battle in game or is forum warfare the new thingy?
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:59:00 - [1397] Originally by: RogerWilco Originally by: Hugo Maxum Originally by: RogerWilco CCP plz ban the goonswarm for: 1. Being sore loosers. 2. Trying by social engineering, to spread mistrust in CCP 3. Failing at EVE. Thank you CCP, please Ban BOB for cheating: 1. Being afraid to lose so they need devine intervention. 2. Trying by social engineering, to spread mistrust in CCP 3. Failing at EVE by cheating. Thank you. P.S. Wow, attacking people on forums is easy, grow up. 1: prof or stfu - im a atheist btw 2: prof or stfu - i have no problem with CCP what so ever. 3: prof or stfu - care to carefully explain when i cheated, and then make a formal complaint to CCP - oh you fialed at that too.. and on the PS, we really try to fight u, but u decided to log off and have a go at CCP, hopeing that it will benefit you in some way. Can i have your stuff now? Think you'll get bbqed by your leadership, advise you to take a chill pill. - BH
SirDregann IV Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:59:00 - [1398] Originally by: RogerWilco CCP plz ban the goonswarm for: 1. Being sore loosers. 2. Trying by social engineering, to spread mistrust in CCP 3. Failing at EVE. Thank you Dont you mean bob?
Dana Serenity	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:59:00 - [1399] First of all, a quick comment; This post is NOTHING to do with anybody's opinion of BoB or Goons or anybody's like or dislike of them. I will not make any accusations of CCP, rigging or anything like that. I am just posting commenting on the letter sent to CCP and the reply we all got. What Apparently Happened A Dev joined a corporation and promoted himself to director, shortly (approx 15mins) after he resigned from that corp. The corp in question did not know about this until they checked their audit logs and discovered what that dev did. CCP has stated that the Dev was just doing his job and joined the corp as a director to fix a bug. This caused uproar within that corp/alliance and petitions were apparently sent to CCP and the forums were bombarded with posts regarding the incident. The temporary closing of the forums and the apparent deletion of filed petitions regarding this incident has lead to even further distrust of CCP and the Devs. Brief comment So if the Dev was indeed fixing a bug by temporarily joining the corp, fine!. Anybody who programs games will know that some minor bugs can be fixed temporarily ingame and the root cause of that problem can be fixed at a later date in a patch. Personally, if this is the case, then the Dev was indeed doing his job as he should however the way he went about it caused the majority of these problems. Had he followed simple procedures which should be in place (and if not in place, WHY NOT CCP?) most of this would never have happened. If these procedures are in place and the Dev simply did not follow them, then he should be in trouble for that though obviously not such a severe reprimand is needed if this is the case. What should have happened? A Dev discovers a problem which is fixable ingame temporarily but requires him to join a corporation as a director to fix. First and foremost, he should have sent an Evemail to that corporation notifying them exactly what he is about to do, why he is doing it and what they should notice when they check everything including what will show up in the audit logs. Only after the evemail is sent should he then join the corp as a director and do his job. Once done, he himself should open a petition to the directors/CEO of that corp allowing for feedback, comments and even complaints for a limited time. By following these simple procedures laid above, the corporation would not only have expected what they discovered but also would know exactly why it happened. Suspicions would not have grown to the level it has. Don't get me wrong, there would still be suspicions. The fact that CCP was not deemed very forthcoming about this situation and other ones like it, has lead to even more distrust which needs to be addressed by CCP directly. Hopefully CCP you can learn from this experience and from now on make sure that simple procedures are in place so this sh*tstorm doesn't happen again.
Templer Relleg Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:59:00 - [1400] Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. Wait.. Im sorry Arkanon, while i think your doing the best you can, the above statsment is not true. The forum was taken offline last night. People got muted, as far as i were told, or even got booted from eve, from posting the link to the open letter. I find the forums to be higly censored, sadly.
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:00:00 - [1401] Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 26/05/2007 11:59:50 Originally by: Murkelost Lets move the battle in game or is forum warfare the new thingy? No limit to human stupidity, it's been said millions of times over and over again, read and repeat: THIS IS NOT ABOUT BOB THIS IS ABOUT SOME OF THE DEV TEAM MEMBERS VIOLATING THEIR POWER LIMITS - BH
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:02:00 - [1402] Edited by: QuantumX on 26/05/2007 12:03:29 Pages to this Thread are increasing at a staggering rate, and 99% of the posts are from people whho want answers. I remember reading about the first "T20" incident when i was taking a break from EvE, and my first reactions was errrmm nothing i was'nt surprised. CCP, need to get their act together if they think that this is not damaging their player base they are fools, even if people dont cancel subscriptions, they will change the way they play. Why bother fighting a foe ingame why you even have a single doubt that they have access to developer based powers.. This is a business for CCP, yet many of their employees act as if its a play ground with no real world consequences, but there are! The line has been crossed too many times by CCP employees, and thats just what they are employee's. I know if I was my connections in my job to ensure that someone one wins bid or soemthing within my company i would at the VERY least be fired, and at worst be prosecuted.. CCP needs to do REAL damage control, not white wash, regardless of the investigation outcomes they need to do something DRASTIC to get players trust back into the game, and secure their future loyalty and therefore payment into the CCP company. Personally i would like to see the removeal of ALL players accounts from GM's Dev's and anybody that has powers to look at, changes or interact in any way with real players accounts from a level of responsibility above what a normal players has. This for me is the only way i will trust CCP fully again. And if a person with responsibiltiy breaks those rules they they should have their employement TERMINATED... without delay. Will i leave EvE today over this, nope, will i leave EvE if something comes along that is Equal but not superior, Bet yer ass. EvE is tainted with the small of absue of power and only radical change in CCP internal policies restore it. ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:03:00 - [1403] Edited by: Vaeldan Athargan on 26/05/2007 12:02:45 Originally by: Beyond Horizon Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 26/05/2007 11:59:50 Originally by: Murkelost Lets move the battle in game or is forum warfare the new thingy? No limit to human stupidity, it's been said millions of times over and over again, read and repeat: THIS IS NOT ABOUT BOB THIS IS ABOUT SOME OF THE DEV TEAM MEMBERS VIOLATING THEIR POWER LIMITS This actually makes sense, BH, if you consider for a moment that it is possible that this is an upset/defensive/***ed dev posting "in character". dons tinfoil hat*
Smith Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:04:00 - [1404] I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about.
D'Artagnan Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:04:00 - [1405] Taken from the open letter. "Doing so teleports a polaris frig to that players ship...at 1 FOOT distance." 1 foot distance = bumpage, that player was totally in his right to get annoyed with this ISD member The ISD members reply to being asked to leave local having interfered with the combat was no. I am surprised he lasted 1.5 years. A long time ago when i used to be fighting BoB i used to have direct comms access to the GM's (i don't anymore). Guess what people BoB are not the only people that have this access, probably every allaince in the game has it.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:04:00 - [1406] Edited by: Kerfira on 26/05/2007 12:05:38 Originally by: Vincent S Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi again. There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. Can you please explain why a mass spamming of the forums is necessary in order for you to even acknowledge an issue? Why the christ are you in full North Korea mode when it comes to forum posts asking legitimate questions from the leader of the largest alliance in the entire game? Why the cencorship? Maybe because said post was carefully timed (at the start of a holiday weekend no less) to be made when only junior GM's were on watch? And the resulting spamming just as carefully timed to occur at the time said junior GM locked the thread (which makes it temporarily invisible on the forum) to get advice from senior GM's/Dev's..... EDIT: Yes, I know, I'm not wearing enough tinfoil to be a proper forum warrior... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:04:00 - [1407] Originally by: CCP Arkanon There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. For the moment, I've got a different feeling about that.
Blind Rebel	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:05:00 - [1408] Ban here, Ban there ... that is no solution for this problems. Mayby is CCP grow to fast, i play World of Warcraft too and they got no problems like CCP
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:05:00 - [1409] Originally by: Smith I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about. Of course you don't. You're in BoB.
JForce Black Lance NBSI Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:06:00 - [1410] Originally by: Noogy Originally by: Garia666 Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase.
Faye Valerii Caldari Eve Defence Force Pure.	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:06:00 - [1411] I'll just say that it seems somewhat implausible that a dev could be so stupid ... Sharkbait would know about the resignation message appearing in the corp log, so why would he do this with malicious intent ? I'm not saying it's impossible, it would just be extremely stupid.
Leingod legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:06:00 - [1412] All I can say to this is: I love EVE Online, but I feel like I'm being robbed of my money more and more. I'm paying for entertainment, thats what this game is SUPPOSED to be for people fun and entertainment. But I feel that is no long possible. All CCP wants to do is fatten their wallets with our hard earned money and then be gods in the game. They don't care about the customers, they care about their friends and themselves. To say the least CCP is in for a rude awakening, soon they'll be no more customers, no players but their friends. I HIGHLY doubt a few 100 paying subscribers that are their friends, is enough to keep them in business. Then EVE will disappear, a great game but ruined by a company that doesn't seem to have a moral fiber in their body. Sometimes I wish EVE was created by a company like Blizzard, Sony, etc etc. They could leave from this companys, of course they have problems too, but Nothing to the extent of GM's cheating supporting their friends. Like said earlier, if this happened in any other MMO those GM's would of been canned so fast their heads would spin. Thats all I got to rant about, but know CCP. Soon you won't have anybody paying for this game. Who wants a game where a group of Dev friends are Gods and can do whatever they want. There is no fun in that. And for that being said, soon, if nothing is fixed about this and no punishments are handed out. The same slap on the wrist is given out like with the T20 incident, where the people that brought the problem to light of day are punished and banned, instead the ones that are causing and involved. You can kiss my money good buy and I'll be more then happy to pay another company like Sony or Blizzard my money, because mainly - I CAN TRUST THOSE COMPANYS! I can't trust CCP anymore, you have lost the players trust, IMO.
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:07:00 - [1413] Originally by: Vaeldan Athargan Originally by: Smith I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about. Of course you don't. You're in BoB. Which funny enough are the only people bar a few alts saying nothing is wrong with how things are done. BoB should be the loudest shouting for any abuse by CCP employees to be stamped out and removed, because atm their reputation is getting lower by each post to this thread. ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
Iwone	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:07:00 - [1414] Originally by: Noogy Originally by: Garia666 Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post. /signed i fully agree This. Such a good product, such a bad management. Not the first time, not the last :( Truly an EXCELENT post.
Smith Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:08:00 - [1415] Originally by: Vaeldan Athargan Originally by: Smith I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about. Of course you don't. You're in BoB. How has my being in BoB got anything to do with this?
necronarcosis Fury Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:09:00 - [1416] DISGUSTED, i had faith that ccp were past this. How can we take anything ccp has to say seriously?
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:09:00 - [1417] Originally by: D'Artagnan Taken from the open letter. "Doing so teleports a polaris frig to that players ship...at 1 FOOT distance." 1 foot distance = bumpage, that player was totally in his right to get annoyed with this ISD member The ISD members reply to being asked to leave local having interfered with the combat was no. I am surprised he lasted 1.5 years. A long time ago when i used to be fighting BoB i used to have direct comms access to the GM's (i don't anymore). Guess what people BoB are not the only people that have this access, probably every allaince in the game has it. I agree that what the ISD did was extremely clumsy. According to himself, he never bumped the BOB member, but going so close was still stupid. The problem is this: An ISD member potentially bumps a BOB ship, that is not engaged in combat, so it has no relevance to the gameplay. Clumsy? yes, did it have any effect on the game? No. Result: ISD fired by what seems like a direct order from BOB. T20 hands out T2 BPOs to his friends. Result: CCP do their best to cover it up, and when it finally gets out, he recieves a slap on the wrist. The way internal matters have been handled in CCP have been a farce so far, and if they are surprised they are the only company with regular scandals, it only takes a few seconds to find out why. That a BOB member can get support from the staff that takes other players hours, days weeks is simply grotesque.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:09:00 - [1418] Originally by: Smith I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about. /me shakes head silently. Not seeing what is wrong seems to be a general problem with some people. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:09:00 - [1419] Originally by: Smith Originally by: Vaeldan Athargan Originally by: Smith I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about. Of course you don't. You're in BoB. How has my being in BoB got anything to do with this? lol your joking right. ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
BCBArclight Odessa Operations Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:09:00 - [1420] I've tried to read these post but there are just two many to completely get through so I'm just going to post my thoughts on the issue. Points that interest me: DOS Attack on the forums CCP lack of decision making and openness Dev corruption Goon being blamed for this Couple of things donÆt sit right with me on this issue: 1) DOS Attack on the forums? - This just doesnÆt seem right to me. Any thread regarding this issue was instantly deleted until it was clear that this would be possible to grab all of them so they shut down the server. If it was a DOS Attack why were only threads regarding to this issue deleted and others from other forums not? If it was just an effort to stop posting then why not disable the posting feature rather than remove the information completely? To me it looks like something was trying to be covered up. 2) CCP lack of decision making and openness - I'm sorry to say I understand that there is a process that must be made before anything is said back to the players, but with something like this which affects the whole game something should be said. And when I say a reply be made I donÆt mean a one line "We are looking into it"..."We have sorted it" sort of reply. 3) Dev corruption - Im sorry to say it is easy to cheat when you have the power to I mean it is only a game and shouldnÆt be taken seriously.... however paying ú10 a month to play a game I expect that everyone else plays by the same rules. I know BOB has been found to have been given BPOs of T2 items and that have been given favours for things they shouldnÆt have. Now being the "biggest" alliance in the game changes everything, if the Devs gave a small alliance help and it only affected a small area then so be it, itÆs bad and should be punished but itÆs not too bad. However giving the biggest alliance help when they have their fingers in so many pies, stands to reason they only got there because of the help? Devs shouldnÆt be allowed to play in alliances and their movements constantly monitored so this sort of event doesnÆt have chance to occur. 4) Goon being blamed - lol, sorry but goon only posted the link the other 50+ pages on this thread are made up of players/BOB and BOB alts (guess the bob alts if you can) So what should be done about this then? Devs being fired? BOB dissolved for their involvement in it? Move openness from CCP on events rather than the dribble that comes from them atm? From what I expect this will be swept under the rug by the powers that be and they will hope that too many people wonÆt leave because of it. I doubt any Devs will be fired they cost too much to train up and get into work. I personally think all members in the "evidence" given should be investigated and banned if found of using means to accomplish actions that shouldnÆt be possible as a normal player (e.g. telling a Dev to carry out actions that affect the game) As the customers of the company we donÆt get enough information from the company we are buying a service from. Please excuse the grammar and IÆve probably missed something out but IÆm in a rush, I need to log back on and get my newly spawned Titanààà. Oh wait damn forgot IÆm not in BOB >_< Odessa Operations are Recruiting
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:09:00 - [1421] Originally by: Smith Originally by: Vaeldan Athargan Originally by: Smith I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about. Of course you don't. You're in BoB. How has my being in BoB got anything to do with this? Wow. Just.... wow. Never mind. Apparently the 50+ pages of posts before mine didn't clarify the issue sufficiently to make my snarky comment painfully obvious.
Nohl Faugh a Ballagh	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:11:00 - [1422] Originally by: Smith I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about. Of course you do, boblet.
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:11:00 - [1423] Originally by: Faye Valerii I'll just say that it seems somewhat implausible that a dev could be so stupid ... Sharkbait would know about the resignation message appearing in the corp log, so why would he do this with malicious intent ? I'm not saying it's impossible, it would just be extremely stupid. My thoughts exactly. That's why I never came to blame bob, it was too stupidly obvious. - BH
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:12:00 - [1424] Originally by: RogerWilco CCP plz ban the goonswarm for: 1. Being sore loosers. 2. Trying by social engineering, to spread mistrust in CCP 3. Failing at EVE. Thank you Add these to that list: Damaging the community. Planning attacks on the official forums. Hurting the image of CCP by spreading these lies to community and news sites. --- Dianabolic speaks about BoB's developer relationship. Lag Killer
Akrinos LuCont Gallente Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:12:00 - [1425]
Marine Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:12:00 - [1426] Originally by: TheHornet for a lot of us, EVE is our own "second life", we are here hours after hours and from this fact, we mean to have a right to know the truth Ill go straight : ive told to my step son (13) that all this sh*** will end in tears and screams when a player will come to CCP's bureau in Iceland and shooting all people there because of a game event he can't endure. That's why i dont want him playing Eve. Solutions are however simple : Dont allow to CCP employees to play teh game only on SISI, or a restricted area of TQ in a CCP Corp. If CCP continue the same way they won't have to cry : it's their fault.
Cheval Blanc	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:12:00 - [1427] Originally by: QuantumX BoB should be the loudest shouting for any abuse by CCP employees to be stamped out and removed, because atm their reputation is getting lower by each post to this thread. Assuming they cared about their reputation to begin with - who needs reputation when you're rich enough to buy pets/friends/allies. BoB seems to pretty much have carte blanche these days.
SirDregann IV Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:12:00 - [1428] Originally by: Templer Relleg People got muted, as far as i were told, or even got booted from eve, from posting the link to the open letter. I find the forums to be higly censored, sadly. I also heard of people being perma-banned from the forums and a ban ingame.
Leingod legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:13:00 - [1429] Originally by: Iwone Originally by: Noogy Originally by: Garia666 Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post. /signed i fully agree This. Such a good product, such a bad management. Not the first time, not the last :( Truly an EXCELENT post. Read this CCP, and learn from it. If you don't, EVE will go down in flames. /signed
Elmo McMo	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:13:00 - [1430] Edited by: Elmo McMo on 26/05/2007 12:18:28 Edited by: Elmo McMo on 26/05/2007 12:16:33 I'am working as Administrator in Europes biggest Internet Service Provider, and i must realy the kind like some CCP worker do their work is absolutely terrible. only thought this CCP lost much trust of their customer.. and is their anything more worser than a company that have no trust? It's not only the product eve-online, this affects their future products too like Vampires Online. I think its very clear that CCP Staff cant tell us the real **** that some of their workers do.. cause it makes them attackable for legal affairs. But realy you should instand give strict polocies. Denie CCP - Staff in Gamemaster/Developer/ISD and Administration Positions to play in Superpowerblocks like (RA/GOON+STUFF) and (BOB+STUFF). Make your internal monitoring public and transparent Give ISD the order to stop delete all stuff "that says something against ccp worker" sorry but were are not in china your censor ship is totaly ill, remember the guys that accout you blocked cause he linked a eve news on a gemran newssite that was about the t20 BPO spawning history and this one say very very much... http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20070216181949tv8.png This is not to kick someone in the ass, that is for get back trust of your own customers.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:13:00 - [1431] Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi again. While I fully understand that people want information and answers to their questions, please consider that there is still considerable work to be done in compiling and investigating the various allegations posted in this thread and elsewhere. Updates will be posted as we go on, I simply can not guarantee exactly when we'll have this matter sewn up and ready as a coherent report. I will report in as often as I can, provided there are confirmed news to share with you. There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. If what you wrote about not silencing your players is true, I assume that you will be unbanning our people that were banned ingame for speaking about this situation? If you'd like, I can forward a list of the account names to you.
Yvory Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:13:00 - [1432] We will not forget
Jenna Bush	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:14:00 - [1433] Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi again. There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. Yes it certainly isn't possible to cover up any in game events, except for those that have been covered up. Remember how there was a huge scandal last time there was confirmed cheating, and how it was with the ease of Hercules labors that said cheating came to light? No please, don't look behind the curtain, despite past events we swear we're on the level! Quote: I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. Yes after locking any thread attempting to discuses the matter as it came out, to the point where only a goonswarm "threadnaught" was able to force the issue, and after banning people for discussing it in game this thread is certainly proof that you don't censor or attempt to silence customers. Certainly, you must value our input ever so much, since you must be forced via meta gaming to in anyway address the issue.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:14:00 - [1434] Edited by: Vaeldan Athargan on 26/05/2007 12:14:13 Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate An ISD member potentially bumps a BOB ship, that is not engaged in combat, so it has no relevance to the gameplay. Clumsy? yes, did it have any effect on the game? No. Result: ISD fired by what seems like a direct order from BOB. (Bold emphasis mine.) I had wondered if they were even engaged and/or aligned. Posts/letters make it sound like they were rallying to move out to another system, possibly to a fight. And they erupted on Local with screaming at this ISD fellow. Over what, a bump? He gets fired for bumping a non-aligned/non-engaged ship?! Is that factual?
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:14:00 - [1435] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Sorry, but a 'direct MSN line to your friends at CCP' is just wrong. If they'd be professionals they'd ask you to go the way EVERYONE has to go (aka petitions) and would close the chat. End of the story. Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam.
Hugo Maxum	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:15:00 - [1436] Originally by: RogerWilco Edited by: RogerWilco on 26/05/2007 11:57:35 Originally by: Hugo Maxum Originally by: RogerWilco CCP plz ban the goonswarm for: 1. Being sore loosers. 2. Trying by social engineering, to spread mistrust in CCP 3. Failing at EVE. Thank you CCP, please Ban BOB for cheating: 1. Being afraid to lose so they need devine intervention. 2. Trying by social engineering, to spread mistrust in CCP 3. Failing at EVE by cheating. Thank you. P.S. Wow, attacking people on forums is easy, grow up. 1: prof or stfu - im a atheist btw 2: prof or stfu - i have no problem with CCP what so ever. 3: prof or stfu - care to carefully explain when i cheated, and then make a formal complaint to CCP - oh you failed at that too.. and on the PS, we really try to fight u, but u decided to log off and have a go at CCP, hopeing that it will benefit you in some way. Can i have your stuff now? No, you can not have my stuff. no no and no
Pesadel0 Ordem dos Templarios	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:17:00 - [1437] I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:19:00 - [1438] Originally by: Vaeldan Athargan Edited by: Vaeldan Athargan on 26/05/2007 12:14:13 Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate An ISD member potentially bumps a BOB ship, that is not engaged in combat, so it has no relevance to the gameplay. Clumsy? yes, did it have any effect on the game? No. Result: ISD fired by what seems like a direct order from BOB. (Bold emphasis mine.) I had wondered if they were even engaged and/or aligned. Posts/letters make it sound like they were rallying to move out to another system, possibly to a fight. And they erupted on Local with screaming at this ISD fellow. Over what, a bump? He gets fired for bumping a non-aligned/non-engaged ship?! Is that factual? First he bumps a dread, then he sticks around watching what is going on, with no apparent valid reason for being there.... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and ask him to leave..... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Nohl Faugh a Ballagh	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:19:00 - [1439] Originally by: Shinigami Add these to that list: Damaging the reputation of my precious little alliance of cheaters. Planning attacks on the official forums where only bob gets to ***** it up. Hurting the image of BoB by spreading these lies to community and news sites. Come on, be honest. That's why you really posted, isn't it? Poor thing. Thinks we give a frack about him.
D Julez Xynomorph Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:19:00 - [1440] Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. My thoughts exactly, the only way to get rid of these accusations (false or true) is the put up a border between GM/Devs and the TQ playerbase. I feel sad when i read this kind of posts and they do make me doubt if this is worth my free time, maybe there's is not much proof (or none at all) but i dont think these kinds of accusations/stories are made up completely. My two cents. Xynomorph is recruiting
Airata	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:19:00 - [1441] Originally by: Shinigami Hurting the image of CCP by spreading these lies to community and news sites. T2 bpos that you guys got earlier was a lie also? Lets wait for CCP official post about latest issue. I personally think that BoB has much more to hide than we ever could imagine
Stakhanov kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:20:00 - [1442] Hey , I think this CCP employee might have helped my enemy. He needs to lose his job over this ! Or I'm gonna do my worst to hurt the game. How petty can you get ?
Phoenix Britannian Gallente Virtue Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:20:00 - [1443] Being an old Trade Wars 2002 BBS Sysop, I only have one thing to say about this whole matter: Sysops should never be allowed in their own universes outside of their administrative duties. You play other peoples' games but not your own. - Phoenix Britannian
Verulam Gallente Capital Experiments	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:21:00 - [1444] Again, any chance we can have a breakdown of how many Dev's/GM's are directly associated with BOB? It certainly seems that per each member of the EVE playing members, that BOB is overly represented. Who's sleeping in whos' bed?
Zazie llelele	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:21:00 - [1445] I remember ccp said the same with the T2 bpo affair, who can we trust you now ?
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:22:00 - [1446] Originally by: Kerfira First he bumps a dread, then he sticks around watching what is going on, with no apparent valid reason for being there.... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and ask him to leave..... What part of the word 'correspondent' don't you understand? Gathering news and stuff... Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam.
Captain Eflame	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:22:00 - [1447] I believe the great Brick Tamland once said "Loud noises!"
cptgone	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:22:00 - [1448] - why all the censorship, and banning to hush people up - again? - why did CCP only react to 1 of the accusations? as a customer, i'd like to get some answers. the previous dev cheating episode left me disgusted, and suspicious of Events etc.
Fenix Dragoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:24:00 - [1449] I am a relatively new player (2 months) and I am quite disturbed by what I have seen and heard. BOB is this big alliance who runs the show. CCP backs them, a guy hands out T2 BPO's, they get taken back because it was wrong. Hmm, not really making a impression upon me. I spend my hard earned money just like everyone else playing this game, and a game cant run without users. CCP, are you really ready to lose your customers cause you cant see straight? Come on, help us enjoy the game, not hate it so we close accounts and never come back. Maybe taking accountablity, and a non bias look at things will help out. Or wait, corporation - Money = profits. I dont expect results from this. 54 pages and nothing yet? Pretty pathetic
Vergil 577 Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:24:00 - [1450] This is not the way EVE-online should be run. All players need to follow the rules CCP needs to reomve ties with all game Alliances, Corperations, etc. as this causes a conflict of interest. Also your customers pay to play and should expect a fair game without influence on groups of players including but not limited to Alliances and Corpeations. And about this "bugged PoS" how was it bugged? What was fixed? How long did it take? Is this an Isolated case? And was anything acutally wrong? a bugged PoS sounds like a cover up like saying you can't go to work today because you died. It becomes very hard to believe excuses after reading about previous affairs with CCP influencing Alliance movments in the game which should NEVER happen. Still you seem to have a very large number of angry customers CCP, big problem because even if they are wrong which I doubt now they still have to choice to stick their money somewhere else. --Vergil
jellybird Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:24:00 - [1451] Originally by: Smith I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about. Signed
Borazlak	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:25:00 - [1452] WELL!! what can i say. ccp designed, own and run the game, if the so called intrusion happened then so be it. maybe they should of informed the ceo, the fact that they didnt is just an admin slip up. happens every day in every business in the world. yes im defending them! eve is a fantastic game huge and complex, all of you that are complaning over this mix up should go find the unsubscribe button!!
Josephine Archer	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:26:00 - [1453] omfg bad devs, bad bob, bad game.. zzzZZZzZzZzz Signing up for the "can i have your stuffÖ" train. People tend to see, what they want to see. Why giving CCP the chance to make a statement after they looked into it? Its so much more fun to spam the forums with destructive statements and CCP BOB chetaaaah posts. Oh well, have fun with one of the other thousand Sci-fi based MMOs with ONE live server and awesome PVP ♥
flearider Minmatar Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:26:00 - [1454] easy way to stop all the fuss..NO CCP EMPLOYEE SHOULD BE ABLE TO PLAY EVE ....they don't need to play to fix things ..they don't need to play to come up with content ..there job is to create a game for us to play in ...
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:27:00 - [1455] Edited by: Kerfira on 26/05/2007 12:30:41 Originally by: Tharrn Originally by: Kerfira First he bumps a dread, then he sticks around watching what is going on, with no apparent valid reason for being there.... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and ask him to leave..... What part of the word 'correspondent' don't you understand? Gathering news and stuff... And yet... it appears (given the origin of these accusations) that his affiliation WAS to the enemy side.... possibly the suspicion was right? TBH, I don't know either way. I just know of no major alliance who are happy having ISD people around when they're doing ops, specifically because of the impossibility of determining whether they're spies or not... If I understand correctly, he was asked to leave because he was ACTIVELY interfering with ops (bumping), and suspected to be a spy. He then went on an ego-trip because nobody should tell HIM what to do, and got kindly reminded by his boss (banning him), that ISD is NOT supposed to interfere! What is the real story? Impossible to know, but my interpretation above is just as plausible as anything else. Actually, considering all the fuss his friends are kicking up about it, a lot more plausible... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
PaPaDesAster	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:27:00 - [1456] CCP, this is getting out of control, a quote from my alts corp-board: "so... who's applying for GM-status? sooner or later the BoB(its) will come and then we're gonna need him for sure." I suggest, you take this opportunity to solve the GM-problem one and for all.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:28:00 - [1457] Originally by: Tharrn Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Sorry, but a 'direct MSN line to your friends at CCP' is just wrong. If they'd be professionals they'd ask you to go the way EVERYONE has to go (aka petitions) and would close the chat. End of the story. I don't think anyone is arguing that point. What people are trying to do is purposely confuse two issues in order to make some sort of "political" gain. Let me perfectly clear on my position on this: Players having CCP staff on MSN is absolutely fine. IT is no different to going to the fanfest and downing a few drinks with CCP staff. It doesn't tell you their ingame identities, and it gives no advantage. Lots of players (of all affiliations) have CCP staff on their MSN. Alas I am not one of those players, because I think it would be fun .. but then I don't actually use MSN, so meh. Players using their CCP MSN contacts to bypass the usual lines of communication is not acceptable (with certain exceptions I guess, like "Hey, your server just kersploded, its on the news!). However, there are other possibilities which we will just have to wait for clarification on. For example, did the MSN convo actually happen (because, as the goons have already pointed out, you can't believe everything you read in local), and if it did, was that MSN between a player and CCP/ISD, or was it maybe an CCP/ISD to CCP/ISD thing? Jumping to conclusions may be fun for the drama llamas, but it is damaging to the community, and to CCP, and seriously jeapardises the future of the game itself. It is clear that this whole event has been orchestrated to cause the maximum possible impact and disruption, with no thought to the damage it will cause (or willfull intent, but I don't want to believe that). So, I ask again, can we not just wait to hear both sides, rather than pushing things too far based on accusations and innuendo? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Thomas Torquemada Minmatar Universal Peace Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:28:00 - [1458] Originally by: PriestWithKnives Wow it's like a mini coad in here. Alright points of note without all the posturing. Three different stories but the one that's gotten the most attention thanks to bob posts would be: ISD guy gets close to BoB dreads and takes pictures for his news report, BoB gets annoyed with him there and tells him to leave the system he's too close if people wanted news reports they can hear it from the combatants, no one knows if this is true or not as far as how close he was to the dreds. The ISD tries to make a joke after being talked to rudely by orange species who then gets on MSN and gets GM Admiral something into the ISD IRC within a minute who then tells the ISD person to go and that he is embarrassing CCP by telling Orange Species, "no" when Orange Species demands that he leave the area. It's the ISD and as far as I know they're allowed to be at 270+ fleet engagements to report on them. After a few hours he's also summarily banned from all of his accounts by this same GM. Later on in this thread Dianabolic lets everyone know that BoB higher ups talk to GMs regularly and they're friends and do chat on MSN. This has caused fallout pretty much everywhere as there are clear conflict of interests presented by this such as what happened to the ISD guy. BoB has mostly been saying it's fine for them to be friends with GMs and that nothing is wrong with that at all. Quite a few people have been bringing up points against it when it leads to instant action taken in EVE and completely circumventing the petition system which also helps to make a log of events to help the Internal affairs department of CCP actually do it's job, read t20 and fallout from there. this is pretty much the best quick summary ive read so far. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:28:00 - [1459] Edited by: QuantumX on 26/05/2007 12:27:35 Changes need to happen.... CCP sop being corrupt. Stop "Playing" your own game ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
Reactivator	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:28:00 - [1460] As a customer I wish to have transparent information from CCP internal affairs. ...Not only for this case. It would be nice to somehow see how the developer/GM control mechanism(s) work practically - Some kind of visible flowchart from internal affairs, understandable by customers and players. "Who controls who, who takes care of this and that,which CCP developer or GM can do xyz in the game" Thank you
Psyllus Ktenas Amarr BlackHole Entertainment	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:29:00 - [1461] Originally by: Uruko Originally by: Karim alRashid To CCP Internal Affairs Department: In the light of recent confirmation of friendly relationship between CCP staff and certain elements of the player base and the allegations from the recent past of a CCP employee giving in-depth game mechanics advice to subsets of players (Corelum Corp. if I remember correctly), as opposed to properly documenting it in "EVE Online Player Guide": 1. What are the technical or other measures, employed by IA dept for preventing the conveying of internal game information from CCP staff to players? Do these measure cover both in-game and out-of-game information channels? 2. Is IA dept aware of the "Doctrine of Inevitable Disclosure" (and does it recognize its applicability to online gaming) and the concept of "conflict of interest" and is there a policy and concrete measures to deal with them ? 3. What are technical or other measures for preventing interested parties from obtaining "trade secret" information about game competitors ? Do developer players have also SQL query level access to EVE "database" ? Thank you. A request to all goons. Quit the game allready. A request to you. STFU already if you cant argue.
Taldarian	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:29:00 - [1462] Edited by: Taldarian on 26/05/2007 12:30:21 Hmmmm.... hard to say this but in some ways I envy you that he actually took some initiative. Our corp filled a petition because our pos has been acting weird, we've several lost bs'es which our POS had shot down. They haven't even replied or answered. And when we petitioned for reimbursement all I was told was "It was outside of POS, and there was no found bug at the time of the incident" <-- Okay tell me what I can use this for? There may be no bug found at the time, EXEPT OUR POS FOR NOT WORKING AT ALL!. I lost a set of +5 implants and a t2 fitted Raven, sitting afk in POS for 15 minutes.
A Archer Gallente RSP Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:31:00 - [1463] Originally by: Josephine Archer omfg bad devs, bad bob, bad game.. zzzZZZzZzZzz Signing up for the "can i have your stuffÖ" train. People tend to see, what they want to see. Why giving CCP the chance to make a statement after they looked into it? Its so much more fun to spam the forums with destructive statements and CCP BOB chetaaaah posts. Oh well, have fun with one of the other thousand Sci-fi based MMOs with ONE live server and awesome PVP ♥ POST WITH YOUR MAIN :p
Airata	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:31:00 - [1464] Originally by: flearider easy way to stop all the fuss..NO CCP EMPLOYEE SHOULD BE ABLE TO PLAY EVE ....they don't need to play to fix things ..they don't need to play to come up with content ..there job is to create a game for us to play in ... Im ok with devs playing since it gives them understanding on how to make EVE better (look at other pathetic mmorpgs where devs have no clue about their game). But they obviously should make strict control of their whole team. So that noone even thought about helping allies (read BOB) using their powers or interfer in gameplay an any other way.
papamikeforthewin Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:32:00 - [1465] Edited by: papamikeforthewin on 26/05/2007 12:38:58 After reading the goon open letter and most of this thread I have to say I am just so disappointed in eve atm. If metagaming is what is necessary for either side to "win" this conflict than, quite frankly eve is already dead- we just arent admitting it. I completely agree with the previous poster who stated he worked for Blizzard or some crap. This level of involvement really reeks of corruption, lets not kid ourselves. Perhaps this really is a matter of "a fool and his money" being parted on a large scale. The call for more transparency in issues such as these is valid. As a consumer of a product, I feel that it simply is just good business to know what it is im purchasing. Just as it is the responsibility of, say, a canning factory to release information to the public regarding a contemination of their product, so too is it in ccp's interest to inform us of misuse of power. I think there is some merit in the claims on this thread of people feeling abandoned by ccp. It would appear that ccp's focus is on obtaining new accounts to the playerbase, not looking after the current customers. Look at the amount of effort going into new content while we still cant get server stability. New content= new interest, to hell with the current playerbase. I think ccp realise that the sad truth is that the majority of the playerbase wont leave despite these scandles and the lack of consumer relations. The majority of us will throw our hands up, have a big ol' *****fest and than simply go back to the game. If I was heading ccp's corporate team I would be banking on the same reaction. Screw the current playerbases concerns, we might loose 5% of em at most- we are going to gain that back with the new content anyway. Most of these suckers are hooked on this game so bad after investing 2-3 years of thier lives into it they wont leave. We are but junkies strung out on pixilated c-rack.
jeffb GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:33:00 - [1466] Originally by: Kerfira And yet... it appears his affiliation WAS to the enemy side.... possibly the suspicion was right? TBH, I don't know either way. I just know of no major alliance who are happy having ISD people around when they're doing ops, specifically because of the impossibility of determining whether they're spies or not... If you would read the open letter you would see that he was in Aegis Militia Alliance, an empire roleplaying alliance with no connection to 0.0...
DirtyHarry Caldari Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:34:00 - [1467] lol ccp (again) Havocide - DirtyHarryF-E Homepage F-E Killboard
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:34:00 - [1468] Originally by: Kerfira First he bumps a dread, then he sticks around watching what is going on, with no apparent valid reason for being there.... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and ask him to leave..... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and start screaming demands at him to leave. When that doesn't work, they call in their dev friends to have him forcibly ejected not only from the system, but from his 'job' in the game and banlock all of his accounts. There, fixed that for you. Yeah, you're right. Banning for a bump? Hell, that's definately not retribution or escalation. Thanks for clearing that up for us little people.
Rennard Aku Soku Zan	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:36:00 - [1469] Oh I wish someone make an alternative for this game like ELITE Online or something, that way we can quit this s.h.i.t.
Karim alRashid Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:37:00 - [1470] Originally by: RogerWilco 1: prof or stfu - im a atheist btw 2: prof or stfu - i have no problem with CCP what so ever. 3: prof or stfu - care to carefully explain when i cheated, and then make a formal complaint to CCP - oh you failed at that too.. Mate, your organization have long lost the right to be presumed innocent. I feel really sorry for all of you, honest players, it really sucks to be branded cheater. Perhaps you should do something within your alliance ...
KenDoll	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:38:00 - [1471] Originally by: flearider easy way to stop all the fuss..NO CCP EMPLOYEE SHOULD BE ABLE TO PLAY EVE ....they don't need to play to fix things ..they don't need to play to come up with content ..there job is to create a game for us to play in ... thats not particularly fair on the honest cpp devs, all Gm/dev powers should be removed from there ingame (playing) characters.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:38:00 - [1472] Originally by: Vaeldan Athargan Originally by: Kerfira First he bumps a dread, then he sticks around watching what is going on, with no apparent valid reason for being there.... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and ask him to leave..... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and start screaming demands at him to leave. When that doesn't work, they call in their dev friends to have him forcibly ejected not only from the system, but from his 'job' in the game and banlock all of his accounts. There, fixed that for you. Yeah, you're right. Banning for a bump? Hell, that's definately not retribution or escalation. Thanks for clearing that up for us little people. If I read the information provided correctly (this is the logs leaked by goons), he was banned for not following ISD procedures, i.e. that he is not supposed to in any way interfere in how EVE is played when using his ISD account. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:38:00 - [1473] Originally by: jellybird Originally by: Smith I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about. Signed Now that's surprising, isn't it? :P Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam.
Captain Crimson CoreTech Industries E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:38:00 - [1474] I know who we need... ryysa. Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:39:00 - [1475] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 26/05/2007 12:30:41 Originally by: Tharrn Originally by: Kerfira First he bumps a dread, then he sticks around watching what is going on, with no apparent valid reason for being there.... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and ask him to leave..... What part of the word 'correspondent' don't you understand? Gathering news and stuff... And yet... it appears (given the origin of these accusations) that his affiliation WAS to the enemy side.... possibly the suspicion was right? TBH, I don't know either way. I just know of no major alliance who are happy having ISD people around when they're doing ops, specifically because of the impossibility of determining whether they're spies or not... If I understand correctly, he was asked to leave because he was ACTIVELY interfering with ops (bumping), and suspected to be a spy. He then went on an ego-trip because nobody should tell HIM what to do, and got kindly reminded by his boss (banning him), that ISD is NOT supposed to interfere! What is the real story? Impossible to know, but my interpretation above is just as plausible as anything else. Actually, considering all the fuss his friends are kicking up about it, a lot more plausible... Having a little experience with that from the BoB-ASCN war on the ASCN side, reporters never let anyone tell them what to do. Or let me put it this way, those reporters need those polaris frigs or they would get podded daily. The ISD reporters action is extremely recognizable for me (and typical of CCP really, Sharkbait responded even more vicious once when he got bumped ingame in TPAR), as is Orange Species demand he leave local. The only surprising this is that apparently BoB managed to get another ISD honcho to actually call off the ISD guy, which is something that we never succeeded in back in the day. Perhaps good to ask clarification from ISD about this policy change, can warring parties now demand that ISD leave any system they are fighting in? signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Calvin Firenze Minmatar Subach-Tech FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:39:00 - [1476] Edited by: Calvin Firenze on 26/05/2007 12:40:50 Quote: Guys, guys, we screwed up. We should have been kissing ass this whole time instead of playing the game. 16 pages in, the first post to make me laugh cheers! EDIT: All jokes aside, I'm going to avoid the back and forth *****ing about what happened. Until CCP responds, I'm neutral. Flame me if it helps you sleep at night. We make sure everyone die...when we ride on our enemies - 2Pac
Draconian Arcane Minmatar Praetorian BlackGuard	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:40:00 - [1477] I'm sure CCP employee's are doing what they think is best. Sometimes you just have to make judgement calls on such things. This seems to have escalated to a level beyond what it deserves.
Drake Mezcal eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:40:00 - [1478] Edited by: Drake Mezcal on 26/05/2007 12:38:49 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. First of all, you are the worst diplomat i have ever seen. Second of all, lol
Thomas Torquemada Minmatar Universal Peace Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:40:00 - [1479] Originally by: Sergeant Spot This bears repeating: ================================= CCP has fired staff before for in game misconduct. Yep, you read that right. And if the situation warrents it, I've no doubt they will again. But if CCP has any balls, they'll tell the howling lynch mob to go to hell. They will probably do so politely, but it will be the same thing. You'll have to do some digging, but the incident was all over the forums for a short while. If there is a firing warrented, I have no doubt it will happen. But I dont trust howling lynch mobs. moot points considering said banned persons would undoubtedly just rejoin the game with a new char/account and continue any influence they have with their "buddys". A player should remain what he is, a simple player, not a dev wielding maniac able to bend the rules to how they see fit. TBH i cant see how CCP are able to reprimand players for their innactions when their own tend to get swept up with penaltys that dont amount to much at all (ie: char/account removal, it stops nothing...) GM's/ISD players should by default have no other account/characters that are involved with any alliance politics, the simple gamer who plays eve and has fun should hold those roles not alliance bigshots with influencial friends. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:40:00 - [1480] Originally by: jeffb Originally by: Kerfira And yet... it appears his affiliation WAS to the enemy side.... possibly the suspicion was right? TBH, I don't know either way. I just know of no major alliance who are happy having ISD people around when they're doing ops, specifically because of the impossibility of determining whether they're spies or not... If you would read the open letter you would see that he was in Aegis Militia Alliance, an empire roleplaying alliance with no connection to 0.0... And what has that to do with anything? Afaik, ISD characters don't show their mains alliance/corp, so the only info avail was an ISD guy acting suspiciously and maybe in a way that made him look like he was spying... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Sarafi The 2nd Coming	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:41:00 - [1481]
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:41:00 - [1482] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Vaeldan Athargan Originally by: Kerfira First he bumps a dread, then he sticks around watching what is going on, with no apparent valid reason for being there.... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and ask him to leave..... TBH, I would suspect that he was spying for whoever my enemies were too, and start screaming demands at him to leave. When that doesn't work, they call in their dev friends to have him forcibly ejected not only from the system, but from his 'job' in the game and banlock all of his accounts. There, fixed that for you. Yeah, you're right. Banning for a bump? Hell, that's definately not retribution or escalation. Thanks for clearing that up for us little people. If I read the information provided correctly (this is the logs leaked by goons), he was banned for not following ISD procedures, i.e. that he is not supposed to in any way interfere in how EVE is played when using his ISD account. No argument there. However, the guy clearly didn't act like someone who realized that he was interfering with how EVE is played. Do you get that impression from the logs? I don't. He was flat-out surprised by the questioning at first, the conversation with his boss shows that. The banning was injury atop insult. BoB mimes calling a Dev + Dev/CCP shows up and starts berating ISD guy for "interfering" in a non-combat gathering = Suspicious interaction in my book.
Amanda Shadowsword Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:42:00 - [1483] Is it me or has this turned into a mass beat up CCP post. But as far as CCP playing with players i think it's wrong, if they need to enter the public servers for any reason then make it known to all that see him such ideas as make them Jove and change there box in local to bright orange or make them a CONCORD fleet captain as to fit in with the role players but they should not be able to influence the game at all this means either killing players, joining corps or allegedly fixing competitions
Okane Kudasai	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:42:00 - [1484] Well - I'm going to add my bit - don't expect to be read or understood but here goes.... To the Eve Community that responded angrily to this incident .... FACT: People, it is a GAME. So .. Why do you get emotive about storms in tea-cups? In the scheme of your life and the reason you play, how does this matter? You play NOT for destroying things or earning fake money but for sharing. This most basic of human requirements, is the basis for this type of game to exist and thrive. If you are the type of human to get over excited by percieved inconsistancies (and it is your perception we are refering to) then the way you can deal with is is by DIS-ASSOCIATION. What this means is you have to step back from the situation and ask some simple "grounding" questions which could go like so.... Why does this situation cause this reaction in me? Who is being affected by my reaction, and does it feature in a positive way to those affected? Is this reaction going to affect the quality of my life and those closest to me? How does this reaction affect me physically - could this make me ill? Can I let this go and move on? So, lets move on .... Now, on the game and the interaction of developers with players and BALANCE... Real life is not balanced and I would love to see some reality injected into this game, where there is competing and secrecy, domination and retribution on a MASSIVE scale, for example - Jovians enslave the Eve community and get them to work for the Jovian dictators - something that requires all of us to overcome and triumph. I see these little glitches in the game as the natural unbalance the we have in life struggling to break through the constraints we place around the game. Natures concept of balance is violent and unforgiving, prey is eaten by predator and in turn killed by something else. In the midst of this carnage and depravity, we find golden moments that brings with it, personal fulfilment and contentment and time enough to play a game...Eve Share and let go .... life is too short
Steve ShutupSteve	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:42:00 - [1485] What the heck is going one here? Yes I am a Newbie. Dude I am a cheater. Not in this game(Yet(No single payer yet)). There are some things you just don't cheat at. Massive Mutiplayer Role Playing Games are on the list of things not to cheat on. Stats games too are victim to this idea. If dumb jerks wanna cheat. Well yank there rights and do what a real face less corporation will do. Anchor there ships in high sec 0.4-1.0 paint them as hostile. Then let everyone shoot at them. When all items and assets have been destroyed. Then put them to work for the rest of their contracts debugging tax software. Fare no but the dumb jerks would still feed their kin and have to deal with the hostile workplace for violation of what is fare and not fair. Then for the players would killed the forum which I think is also against the rules. Give their locations to newbies as a starter mission for hard or some thing. Then have them pod the jerks with high(God like) stat bonus modifiers. To not make targets of the newbie players have them show as concord ships coming to get them for spamming the forums. Newbie gets to blow up a dread and the spammers get dead. Lots of fun and justice all the way around.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:44:00 - [1486] Originally by: Calvin Firenze Edited by: Calvin Firenze on 26/05/2007 12:40:50 Quote: Guys, guys, we screwed up. We should have been kissing ass this whole time instead of playing the game. 16 pages in, the first post to make me laugh cheers! EDIT: All jokes aside, I'm going to avoid the back and forth *****ing about what happened. Until CCP responds, I'm neutral. Flame me if it helps you sleep at night. Heh, missed that post on the first read-through, funny comment indeed. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:45:00 - [1487] Okane, I think people are upset because they are seeing the little man behind the curtain. Some people have invested hundreds of dollars in their characters, and now see no reason to continue or to trust CCP or the Devs or to not see conspiracy everywhere they turn. In short, the magic, the trust and the hope is gone in many.
Thomas Torquemada Minmatar Universal Peace Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:47:00 - [1488] In short i do honestly believe 99.9% of CCP dont want this stuff to happen and id hope wouldnt let it, their core problem is recruiting "helpers" from the core playerbase, thats where these problems arise, giving power to people who already influence the game. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:47:00 - [1489] Edited by: Kerfira on 26/05/2007 12:48:21 Originally by: Vaeldan Athargan Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... No argument there. However, the guy clearly didn't act like someone who realized that he was interfering with how EVE is played. Do you get that impression from the logs? I don't. He was flat-out surprised by the questioning at first, the conversation with his boss shows that. The banning was injury atop insult. Maybe he was surprised or maybe he was a good actor... We'll never know exactly what was going on, and the forum is (even at best of times and this certainly isn't) not a good source of information. I see little, if any, PROOF in these 50+ pages of any misconduct by anyone. I certainly see things CCP needs to look into, but this being a holiday weekend I understand why it might take them a while.. I see lots of accusations, and a lot of people jumping to conclusions without any real facts to base them on though.... Modern day lynch-mob ftw!!! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
n0thing Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:47:00 - [1490] Edited by: n0thing on 26/05/2007 12:46:35 Originally by: QuantumX Edited by: QuantumX on 26/05/2007 12:27:35 Changes need to happen.... CCP sop being corrupt. Stop "Playing" your own game Ok well, but thats where they get all info from. Or at least biggest part of it. Would you be happy with wrong balancings? Bugged to no end new content even more then it ever was/is/will be? They play it also in order to make sure you dont get stuck with your ship flying upside down and your weapon firing on you. Oh no, a POS being altered, one POS. Thats rather dumb to put all other issues under same line. Its like saying whole truck of apples is corrupt if one got a bad spot on it. Seriosly, yeah, it would seem bad if you know that someone takes use of some unfair abilities. But if it would really happen like people describe here, all wars will be a complete win. I mean you seriosly dont think that all who plays EVE from CCP play for one certain party? That would be rather bad thing to do since it would lead to no result of 'gathering info on gameplay'. Meaning, im certainly sure they are more then scattered over all levels of play, over most of professions. Meaning, if at very least part of them was using their abilities, that would be VERY visible. In any case, to improve how stuff is done, Id rather suggest tighten the req`s for ISD volunteers, would only increase quality of the help/work provided and done by them. Even tho they still seem fine to me, theres always a room for improvement, in any work/organization/society. Good day. edit: typos. ---
Darnoth El'lyan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:47:00 - [1491] CCP cheat? Well I NEVER! Seriously, this sort of stuff should never be "covered up." All it does is erode trust and...o wai this is what happens. I've never heard of company killing their own game before by being this stupid.
pricecheck8	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:48:00 - [1492] lol rennard i so agree with you. since the first time i've canceled 2 of my 3 accounts. i also wish there was another space mmorpg like this out, id cancel my last 1 in a heartbeat. and bottom line, if their staff is truly guilty of doing any of these things, do you think HONESTLY they will admit to any or all of it except some things which can be proven without a doubt. jus wondering how far has this gone, has any1 posted on the game forums.where they post info on other games. especially ones when theres been reviews of the game. ign/gamespot, etc etc
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:49:00 - [1493] Originally by: Thomas Torquemada In short i do honestly believe 99.9% of CCP dont want this stuff to happen and id hope wouldnt let it, their core problem is recruiting "helpers" from the core playerbase, thats where these problems arise, giving power to people who already influence the game. I think most people here would agree with you, even begrudgingly. It is the isolated incidents of this sort of thing happening, however, that tear apart good things. Look at real world political scandals that take down leaders of corporations, countries, governments. These "small things" can have huge impact. Go out and read what sites like Slashdot, IGN are saying. Eve does not have a good, solid standing in the eyes of many gamers because of past issues, and now this happens. Proof or not, truth or not, this is going to have big ripple effects for all players of the game.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:50:00 - [1494] Posted - 2007.05.26 11:34:00 - [1532] - Quote "I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. CCP Arkanon CCP Internal Affairs Well, thats interesting. Why did you cancel the first tread about the allegations from the Goons then? Around 23 GMT a guy ask: Why are the forums down? I answered: Because an open letter from the Goonfleet to CCP, with link to the allegations. 10 Sec later my account was deleted! Hmm, that don't mean that you silence ppl? I got NO warning before, i got NO explaination after. My account is banned with no reason given nor explained to me, its payed already till July 14. Keep the money for the next 6 weeks, because its the last you will get from me. I am done with this really nice Game i honestly enjoied a lot in the past....
zombu2 Caldari Gangsters of EVE Ash's to Ash's	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:50:00 - [1495] Whats the point of discussing this here we have 55 pages of OMFG i stop playing and CCP sucks GET OVER IT Everytime something like this happens ppl get ****ed off but its no excuse for writing random crap in the forums for where there is no proof or anything else i m no friend of bob either but if you guys want to do something to get rid of bob GET ALL OTHER NON BOB EVE PLAYERS TOGETHER AND FIGHT EM
Ironnight Caldari x13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:51:00 - [1496] Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our friends Priceless and Eve becomes the joke of the MMORPG world, again.
Thomas Torquemada Minmatar Universal Peace Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:51:00 - [1497] Originally by: Hubris Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? I would like to take a minute to respond to this little quote here. Nothing against you personally Dianabolic but there are people in this game that have done way more for the game they love than you or anyone in bob. But do they have direct line of communication with CCP or would they use it, how about a no on that one. Some people have higher moral standards they live by. Since i don't want to speak for anyone else i will use myself as an example. Not trying to toot my own horn, because there are people i know that have way outdone my efforts. People that have spent hundreds and thousands of hours in the help channel for example. I was going to make a list but i think this post would get truncated if i did. I just don't like to speak for others in case i misrepresent things. SO don't mind all the I's below. Anyway, I have been playing since week 2 of eve. I helped put together about 10% of the las vegas gathering for eve. Did my best in sharing the recordings and broadcasting the event discussions to the rest of the world. There were others that were the brainchilds of it that did way more I was just a worker bee in that instance. The Vegas event was outstanding. But it was very disheartening to watch it be torn apart later by other players with connections to CCP out of hate for an event that was better than they did. Much back stabbage occurred after that by a certain other group that was way out of bounds. I put together and paid for the broadcast bandwidth for a radio show (wasn't the best but i know i had fun) that lasted nearly a year. Not to mention developing and paying for bandwidth for an internet tv version of that show, only to scrap it because of a few CCP staff that couldn't get over themselves. That was thousands of US dollars i spent for a game that i enjoyed and wanted to share with others. Now the big question after all that typing is: Should I get special treatment for doing any of it. I would have to say a big "insert four letter word here" NO! Nothing i did should ever allow me to get any sort of special treatment. I had access to contact one person in the community relations department due to interviewing him. Shortly after that i deleted his phone# out of our studio phone logs. I would never want anyone to think i would use it for any gain. Did you catch that last part. Even the thought that others would THINK i had that access would sicken me. Some of you may hate me and not put any thought into what i wrote due to me being a founding member of SN1GG. OR any connection i have or don't have with a certain "social engineer with a blog". I guess it gets pretty bad when a big bad pirate griefer has higher morals than others in this game............. Oh ya sorry to the rest of SN1GG for being a forum **** for once in a few years. this is how things should be. UPC** - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Clennel	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:51:00 - [1498] Why is anybody surprised at CCP's behavior? They market and promote the game using the terms "Lying", "Betrayal", and "Deceit"! Do you honestly think they picked those words out of thin air? :-) Clen
Tramlaw	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:53:00 - [1499] I personally would like to see this issue resolved by having CCP take several steps in regards to this matter. In no way do I think it will seem fair to all those involved but I think it might help return faith in the devs and GMs. 1) Full disclosure of the situation publicly and the sacking of all parties involved with in game interference. 2) Reinstatement of those accounts that were banned for discussion of suspicions of dev interference within the game, if the allegations are found to be true. 3) New guidelines that strictly prohibit any CCP staff member of any level from belonging to any corporation/alliance that has anything to do with the actually 'playing' of the game and the perma-banning of all accounts associated with those employees and anything that was provided by these accounts to their corporations to give them a step up on other corps. 4) The disolving of BoB as it has become abundantly clear to the vast majority of players that BoB is/has been directly involved with the developers in this game. The involvement is perceived to be the main reason why people hate BoB and feel there is no possible way for anyone to mount any effective opposition to such a Mega Alliance. The devs inabilty or unwillingness to address exploit issues that BoB has shown to use to an advantage against all enemies is more than proof positive that BoB is favored by CCP. Any tournaments that I have been aware of or broadcasts of Eve TV have always shown a slant towards BoB's favor. Should be an interesting time at the Fan Fest since this hit the fan. Hopefully the devs will do something to correct what has happened and restore faith in subscribers. Also think if BoB is disolved and the space they control goes up for grabs what fun we will all have again! But I digress because the disolving of BoB will never happen and I doubt CCP will ever MAN UP and admit to any responsibilty in this matter. And forget full disclosure. Man I live in a dream world!
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:53:00 - [1500] Anyone seen This game before? I tried it out a bit on Linux and it's kinda fun. It's more Wing Commander style dogfighting, but interesting.
moschka	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:56:00 - [1501] Originally by: Smith I for one trust CCP will resolve these minor issues as soon as possible. TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about. Trust? U know what that is? Im only 4 months old and first thing i meet is scamming. contractsscamming that obviusoly is allowed "soo easy to stop with programming" from ccp side. Next thing is macrominers, a sort of scamming too i belive, that also is allowed by ccp so far. Then i read about BOB killing a titan that dont shoot back, =) and brag about it? Then u hear about DeV that help BOB with stuff? And now again, deleted petions and posts? I played a lot of games but never stumbled on so much unfair play or what u should call it. I just want to play this game but i prob have to be worried about to who i can trust. Someone said, "dont trust anyone in EVE" Im sorry but i have to belive that.As u know, no smoke without a fire. mos
Karsten Caldari LoneWolf Mining	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:57:00 - [1502] Originally by: Stakhanov Hey , I think this CCP employee might have helped my enemy. He needs to lose his job over this ! Or I'm gonna do my worst to hurt the game. CCP opened this can of worms because they allowed their people to do exactly this (".. helped my enemy ..") over a long time. The lack of CCP to take deceive actions against bad apples in their own rows makes this approach possible. This is amplified because CCPs 1st and often only (at least seen) reaction is to shoot the messenger instead of cleaning out thier own shop. CCPs damage control concerning such events is absolutely inadequate and a PR disaster. This might kill the game soon. Karsten "All your ISK belong to the Viking Brewery"
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:58:00 - [1503] Originally by: Kerfira Maybe he was surprised or maybe he was a good actor... We'll never know exactly what was going on, and the forum is (even at best of times and this certainly isn't) not a good source of information. I see little, if any, PROOF in these 50+ pages of any misconduct by anyone. I certainly see things CCP needs to look into, but this being a holiday weekend I understand why it might take them a while.. I see lots of accusations, and a lot of people jumping to conclusions without any real facts to base them on though.... Modern day lynch-mob ftw!!! Lynch-mobs are effective when there is no process in place for impeachments or recall votes or whatever the real world political equivalent you want to use. I think the core of the issue is that there seems to be a clear connection, to the point of players being able to get staffers fired with a single message to a well-placed CCP employee. Even if it is only 50% truth and 50% embellishment, I think that is a problem. From what I am reading from others, this bothers other players too. I've already said that, from a neutral standpoint, the whole BoB vs Goon FUD needs to be ignored and the core complaints/issues need to be addressed. The extenuating circumstances shouldn't matter when you are talking about a breach of policy of any sort. Every breach should be investigated and handled the same way. I think it is a problem that a BoB player makes a "single call" and gets a person fired, no questions asked. The Admiral ISD player didn't even get a second side of the story, just started going off on the ISD reporter player. That is unprofessional team management, and in the real world would invite trouble in a brick and mortar company.
John Darke	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:58:00 - [1504] This is quite a big deal, yes, but we shouldn't be ending the game over it. These issues can be resolved without mass-cancellations, forum and chat flooding or screaming irrationally about the space aliens. I generally don't like to just outline the bad parts of a situation, so here goes. Good - BoB has Dev's as friends. This alone isn't bad at all. I'm sure the dev's love hearing about the game from some of it's long time players. And close contact with it's players can generate insight on the game that might not have been thought of otherwise. Bad - Using said friendship for personal gain. That speaks for itself really. BoB should have to use the petitions to accomplish change the way any player should. Also, is it said that ONLY BoB players recieve this treatment? It should be explored as to wether or not others are in on this too, rather than only targetting the largest of them. The extent of damage could be WELL beyond just BoB. Good - Goonswarm wants to bring these transgressions into light. They and everyone have every right to try and get this game fixed before abandoning hope. A lot of you WILL agree that this is a wonderful game and worth a little effort to keep it going. Bad - "Threadnaught" (Though I think the word is funny) A calmer approach is suprisingly effective versus flooding, even though it may have seemed to be the only route at the time, a torrent of information and speculation all at once is hardly constructive. I do not see a "right" side in this entire situation. Perhaps if we spent less time flaming each other and speculating conspiracy theories we could come up with some way to move beyond this and see it doesn't happen again. The solutions won't be simple or soon, but I'd rather gut it out and see that they work. I dislike BoB and Goonswarm just as much as any other guy (both sides seem to present themselves as self-righteous jerks, but this is coming from a self-righteous jerk ) but I fail to see how hating on each other in this thread will solve anything. Two last points Good - Eve Online Bad - No Eve Online PS: I hope that I haven't just repeated everything everyone else has said but with 54+ pages, it's likely that I did, LOL... Oh, well. My two cents
AshrakTheWhite Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:59:00 - [1505] Originally by: zombu2 Whats the point of discussing this here we have 55 pages of OMFG i stop playing and CCP sucks GET OVER IT Everytime something like this happens ppl get ****ed off but its no excuse for writing random crap in the forums for where there is no proof or anything else i m no friend of bob either but if you guys want to do something to get rid of bob GET ALL OTHER NON BOB EVE PLAYERS TOGETHER AND FIGHT EM this is gonna be massivly below the belt but whats stopping bob from "/heal 0" our entire combined fleet?
Llyando Autora Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:59:00 - [1506] Edited by: Llyando Autora on 26/05/2007 12:58:31 Out of curiosity, did CCP Sharkbait do anything to the POS (or any other aspect of the corp) that warrents a claim of cheating? Assuming (which may or may not be a big assumption) the reason given is true, i.e. a bugged POS, then remotly fixing the problem may or may not work/correctly identify the problem. If the original complaint was "My POS is bugged, fix it" then proper diagnosis would be required to fix it. The easiest method of doing this is to recreate the problem under monitered conditions. aka Join the Corp with req rols, expt on the problem, find the problem, fix it. This explination works for me, as for the reason of denial, knee jerk reaction to 'OMG CCP R Teh Hax0rz!' 99% of the time these claims are BS, why would now be any different? And finally as for the reason no other problems are being addressed in this thread, maybe the reason is that there is no proof to make these claims different from any others. Read the letter again, all you have is a letter 'supposedly' written by an ex CCP employee, where is the proof of authenticity/screenshots? Goonies, you complain bitterly whenever someone related to CCP comes close to ~~seeing your tactics~~ affecting your operations, why can't bob get annoyed? /me remembers the fuss that was made when goonfleet was unable to jump noob ships into a combat system to crash the node (sorry partake in the battle) To the rest of eve, just remember to look at evidence supplied before choosing a side in this witch hunt.
Adreanna Akira	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:59:00 - [1507] Statement: I hate to say it, But maybe its time for CCP to remove Devs from the game, PERIOD. It seems they cant be trusted at all to make good choices. If the devs are playing merely to test out game content for themselves to make the game better, i'd refer them to the test server.(I thought thats what it was for anyways...) Solution: If you work for CCP you don't PLAY the game, You WORK on the game. Keep business separate from pleasure and things will start to improve. I honestly wonder how much longer EvE's player base is going to put up with this BS before their subscriptions start dropping off dramatically. I'd really hate to see a game like this die, but when the creators are doing the killing, what can i do?
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:59:00 - [1508] Edited by: Plutoinum on 26/05/2007 13:01:24 Originally by: Vincent S Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi again. There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. Can you please explain why a mass spamming of the forums is necessary in order for you to even acknowledge an issue? Why the christ are you in full North Korea mode when it comes to forum posts asking legitimate questions from the leader of the largest alliance in the entire game? Why the cencorship? Was it needed ? Did they really need to mass-spam the forum, instead of a few more subtile approaches first and give CCP some time for a proper response. It's not that this issue was about to run away, if you not immediately mass-spam the forums ! And I also wonder of course, why these three issues needed to be brought up on a friday. Afaik the ones, who revealed it, knew about it already longer, but seems they wanted to use it with maximum effect. I better don't say what I think about that. I certainly also want to know, what Sharkbait was doing there at the pos and why he needs to join the corp to do it. Makes no sense to me. Guess he could do anything, what he likes already, without joining a corp and without being noticed at all. Anyway, I'm waiting for an offical answer and don't believe, what some frustrated players make up now. I want to know the truth, and don't care much what some lynch mob makes out-of-it, who is biased anyway. If they want to quit, before they have more info, let them do it. Bye bye. Less whining, more chance to solve this in an appropriate way in the end.
Eldred Cain	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:00:00 - [1509] Edited by: Eldred Cain on 26/05/2007 13:01:33 Wow, this is s bad for ccp. But it has to be sorted out or before we know it weve all wasted countless $`s on what appears to be a completely rigged game, im still young but dream of making it up to the big wars and so on, but with this kind of thing going on i am starting to wonder if its time to just cut my losses and get out befor i waste any more time and money on this. and i am sure i am not alone in thinking like this, its such a shame, EVE has so much potential but fails with the devs, its going to take a long time to regain the trust of its members...if it has any left
Dumuzi	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:00:00 - [1510] Originally by: Leingod Originally by: Iwone Originally by: Noogy Originally by: Garia666 Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post. /signed i fully agree This. Such a good product, such a bad management. Not the first time, not the last :( Truly an EXCELENT post. Read this CCP, and learn from it. If you don't, EVE will go down in flames. /signed /Signed as well.
Smith Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:14:00 - [1511] Edited by: Smith on 26/05/2007 13:15:44 Originally by: Tramlaw I personally would like to see this issue resolved by having CCP take several steps in regards to this matter. In no way do I think it will seem fair to all those involved but I think it might help return faith in the devs and GMs. 1) Full disclosure of the situation publicly and the sacking of all parties involved with in game interference. 2) Reinstatement of those accounts that were banned for discussion of suspicions of dev interference within the game, if the allegations are found to be true. 3) New guidelines that strictly prohibit any CCP staff member of any level from belonging to any corporation/alliance that has anything to do with the actually 'playing' of the game and the perma-banning of all accounts associated with those employees and anything that was provided by these accounts to their corporations to give them a step up on other corps. 4) The disolving of BoB as it has become abundantly clear to the vast majority of players that BoB is/has been directly involved with the developers in this game. The involvement is perceived to be the main reason why people hate BoB and feel there is no possible way for anyone to mount any effective opposition to such a Mega Alliance. The devs inabilty or unwillingness to address exploit issues that BoB has shown to use to an advantage against all enemies is more than proof positive that BoB is favored by CCP. Any tournaments that I have been aware of or broadcasts of Eve TV have always shown a slant towards BoB's favor. Should be an interesting time at the Fan Fest since this hit the fan. Hopefully the devs will do something to correct what has happened and restore faith in subscribers. Also think if BoB is disolved and the space they control goes up for grabs what fun we will all have again! But I digress because the disolving of BoB will never happen and I doubt CCP will ever MAN UP and admit to any responsibilty in this matter. And forget full disclosure. Man I live in a dream world! Brilliant post. I still dont see however this has anything to do with a DEV fixing a bugged POS though?! Its a shame our enemies lack this level of passion ingame. See you in NOL in 3 weeks everyone?
Karsten Caldari LoneWolf Mining	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:14:00 - [1512] Originally by: Avon Here we go again with the drama. I am absolutely sick to the back teeth of certain parts of our "community" using their one sided tales and accusations to attack CCP, or BoB, or Eve, through widespread internet posting. What was the name of the Alliance that got free BPs from a CCP guy? BoB or? Well no wonder that you don't complain about it. And avoid claiming that a few bps don't matter. Every help from outside the normal game is a advantage the normal paying customers off ccp didnt get. One more thing: No one is so stupid to give such easily traceable things like BPos as 1st step. I am sure there have been more then enough other "small" favors before the guy got so bold (and arrogant/stupid/...) to spawn also free BPos. Karsten "All your ISK belong to the Viking Brewery"
iskies	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:14:00 - [1513] I have three accounts; after reading this I think I am going to cancel them - I have been playing for several years and the corrupt staff at CCP discussions in the past were ignored. I think they must come clean and stop the game playing 100%. Draw a line between what the devs/gm's are allowed to do. Is this really what happened to ASCN? The talk of BoB cheating then was also rampant; The GM joining the corp for the short time was most likely trying to see if a capital ship or capital ship parts were being built, spying to see what BoB's next target would be. Cynical comments?? Maybe.... but I am getting sick of the allegations that are for the most part well founded.
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:19:00 - [1514] Originally by: Smith Its a shame our enemies lack this level of passion ingame. See you in NOL in 3 weeks everyone? This isn't directed solely at Smith, but is a reaction to most of the posts by BoB players in this thread: Is anyone else put off by the level of glee exhuded by these guys over this?
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:19:00 - [1515] Originally by: Avon I don't think anyone is arguing that point. What people are trying to do is purposely confuse two issues in order to make some sort of "political" gain. Let me perfectly clear on my position on this: Players having CCP staff on MSN is absolutely fine. IT is no different to going to the fanfest and downing a few drinks with CCP staff. It doesn't tell you their ingame identities, and it gives no advantage. Lots of players (of all affiliations) have CCP staff on their MSN. Alas I am not one of those players, because I think it would be fun .. but then I don't actually use MSN, so meh. Players using their CCP MSN contacts to bypass the usual lines of communication is not acceptable (with certain exceptions I guess, like "Hey, your server just kersploded, its on the news!). However, there are other possibilities which we will just have to wait for clarification on. For example, did the MSN convo actually happen (because, as the goons have already pointed out, you can't believe everything you read in local), and if it did, was that MSN between a player and CCP/ISD, or was it maybe an CCP/ISD to CCP/ISD thing? Jumping to conclusions may be fun for the drama llamas, but it is damaging to the community, and to CCP, and seriously jeapardises the future of the game itself. It is clear that this whole event has been orchestrated to cause the maximum possible impact and disruption, with no thought to the damage it will cause (or willfull intent, but I don't want to believe that). So, I ask again, can we not just wait to hear both sides, rather than pushing things too far based on accusations and innuendo? That was a very sensible post I can fully agree with - although I know Graelyn and don't see a reason why he should make stuff up. The Mirial thing happened some months ago and he could already have made it public if he would have been out for trouble only. When we (the Amarrian RPers) asked AM about that incident they wouldn't answer though for the sake of not stirring the pot. They rather accepted that people thought the worst about their former comrade. Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam.
Jine Tass	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:20:00 - [1516] Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi again. While I fully understand that people want information and answers to their questions, please consider that there is still considerable work to be done in compiling and investigating the various allegations posted in this thread and elsewhere. Updates will be posted as we go on, I simply can not guarantee exactly when we'll have this matter sewn up and ready as a coherent report. I will report in as often as I can, provided there are confirmed news to share with you. There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. This could take a long time to carry out properly and I doubt that we'll ever have a closure. In the meanwhile, how about this - you let the whole community know what are the detailed security rules and processes within CCP that would prevent the alleged offenses. There is no reason to keep this kind of information confidential, unless there are holes in the system. To go one step further, someone from outside CCP should do a full audit of your company and you should publish the report. There are plenty of companies that specialise in this area and most IT companies undergo a due dilligence process once in a while (I've been through it many times), so I don't see why CCP would be an exception. Alternatively, let the devil's advocate do it - e.g. one of the top Goonie alliance members. If they come up satisfied with the findings, it should be good enough for everyone else. Why I'm saying this is that from everything I've read it's extremely difficult to conclusively determine what actually happened and what's BS. In the end, we may never know, but to reiterate, the point is that there must be a well-documented, detailed and most importantly publicly accessible policy on data security and player-to-GM/DEV relationships. This is IMHO the only way forward for CCP to regain the trust of the players who are questioning your integrity. Even if you find that there was misconduct and even if some heads roll, people will still doubt (rightfully so) what can prevent this from happening in 3 months.
Elmicker Unscoped Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:21:00 - [1517] Did sharkbait actually do anything while in DS1, or did he just join, give roles, then leave? Something about this whole thing just SCREAMS goon setup. We've even seen the goon leadership appealing for their members to whine and spam CCP employees' inboxes with appeals to change the game. Sharkbait has been seen to join corps previously to fix problems directly, so is there any evidence at all that this is any different? Apart from, of course, anecdotal evidence from (ooh, shock horror) the goons, that their petitions were deleted. I think we all need to wait until the evidence is presented in a fair manner before making rash judgements and dropping drama bombs such as "** CCP, I can't trust them, I'm leaving." You all need to calm down and ask yourselves, "did any of the alleged misconduct actually affect me?" If you still insist on leaving, can i have your stuff? And on the other allegations, I honestly dont see any problems there at all. An ISD reporter jumped directly to a dreadnought pilot, bumping him. This might not seem like much, but a dread in siege suffers a massive tracking penalty, so if they get bumped, they can't hit anything for love nor money. Dreads also tend to group together, if one dread was bumped, it was likely other dreads were, which could result in the dread gang losing upwards of half of its firepower for an entire siege cycle. This is an ISD member interfering with the progress of the game, and is absolutely unacceptable. The BoB FC then used personal connections to have the problem sorted and the ISD member reprimanded, rather than relying on an unreliable, uncertain petition system, which probably would have resulted in a 3-week wait before getting "Our logs did not show anything at the time..." What other EVE player would do any different in the situation, when you have hundreds of people relying on your leadership and planning, and an ISD member has just blundered in and **** everything up? As for the ISD member's other allegations about the RP world being led around on a string, well... They're RPers, they'll get over it.
Tarrick	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:22:00 - [1518] Nobody associated with CCP should be allowed to be active in any part of EvE without that there identity and association with CCP be readily apparent to all the (Fee paying) customers. There would not then be any oppertunity for them to abuse thier position. There is no element of game development that needs to be secret from the customers. come on CCP get it together and stop the rot
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:23:00 - [1519] Originally by: iskies I have three accounts; after reading this I think I am going to cancel them - I have been playing for several years and the corrupt staff at CCP discussions in the past were ignored. I think they must come clean and stop the game playing 100%. Draw a line between what the devs/gm's are allowed to do. Is this really what happened to ASCN? The talk of BoB cheating then was also rampant; The GM joining the corp for the short time was most likely trying to see if a capital ship or capital ship parts were being built, spying to see what BoB's next target would be. Cynical comments?? Maybe.... but I am getting sick of the allegations that are for the most part well founded. Can i have your stuffs?
Major Stormer Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:24:00 - [1520] Gl with the investagtion IA.
Wuubaa Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:26:00 - [1521] Don't troll please. -Hango
Ling Xiao Prism Project Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:27:00 - [1522] Originally by: PunkRoadkill Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. This is a fantastic post btw. i have to agree, a rather well put post. Indeed, probably the best put argument in the whole thread. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:29:00 - [1523] Originally by: Tarrick Nobody associated with CCP should be allowed to be active in any part of EvE without that there identity and association with CCP be readily apparent to all the (Fee paying) customers. There would not then be any oppertunity for them to abuse thier position. There is no element of game development that needs to be secret from the customers. come on CCP get it together and stop the rot I fail to see how all this "CCP should not play" stuff has come about from this thread. Sharkbait joined a corp WITH HIS DEV CHARACTER, as part of his job. What on earth does that have to do with CCP playing on TQ? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Martin Silenius Gallente Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:29:00 - [1524] Well, for the life of me I cant understand why would CCP permit things like this ever taking place ! When you see something like - get out of here or I will phone up my bit*hes in CCP - it just makes you cry. How or why would a supposedly mature company of some reputation allow to be draged through mud like this, so theire employees can chat in game and kiss behind of an alliance - doesnt matter wich, what matters is thats whats happening. Im sorry, but I just began to like this game and in 4 months I have heard 2 missconduts like this. As former customer of SOE and Blizzard - I can say CCP falls in my eyes as a company lead by 40+ year old teenagers that make good games, but cheat at it at the same time .. Get youre act together or start loosing loyal customers !
maria stallion Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:30:00 - [1525] Edited by: maria stallion on 26/05/2007 13:32:13 It would be so cool if the whiners in this thread quit eve, that would mean eve would only have people with intelligence left. That way it would be like when I first started playing the game :)
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:30:00 - [1526] Originally by: Smith Edited by: Smith on 26/05/2007 13:15:44 Originally by: Tramlaw I personally would like to see this issue resolved by having CCP take several steps in regards to this matter. In no way do I think it will seem fair to all those involved but I think it might help return faith in the devs and GMs. 1) Full disclosure of the situation publicly and the sacking of all parties involved with in game interference. 2) Reinstatement of those accounts that were banned for discussion of suspicions of dev interference within the game, if the allegations are found to be true. 3) New guidelines that strictly prohibit any CCP staff member of any level from belonging to any corporation/alliance that has anything to do with the actually 'playing' of the game and the perma-banning of all accounts associated with those employees and anything that was provided by these accounts to their corporations to give them a step up on other corps. 4) The disolving of BoB as it has become abundantly clear to the vast majority of players that BoB is/has been directly involved with the developers in this game. The involvement is perceived to be the main reason why people hate BoB and feel there is no possible way for anyone to mount any effective opposition to such a Mega Alliance. The devs inabilty or unwillingness to address exploit issues that BoB has shown to use to an advantage against all enemies is more than proof positive that BoB is favored by CCP. Any tournaments that I have been aware of or broadcasts of Eve TV have always shown a slant towards BoB's favor. Should be an interesting time at the Fan Fest since this hit the fan. Hopefully the devs will do something to correct what has happened and restore faith in subscribers. Also think if BoB is disolved and the space they control goes up for grabs what fun we will all have again! But I digress because the disolving of BoB will never happen and I doubt CCP will ever MAN UP and admit to any responsibilty in this matter. And forget full disclosure. Man I live in a dream world! Brilliant post. I still dont see however this has anything to do with a DEV fixing a bugged POS though?! The POS was bugged? Funny you should say that, as the POS owners have on several occasions stated that the POS was not bugged, no one petitioned the GM and they were pretty damn surprised to see a GM in their corp.
Darnoth El'lyan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:30:00 - [1527] Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 26/05/2007 13:10:01 Can you please explain why a mass spamming of the forums is necessary in order for you to even acknowledge an issue? Why the christ are you in full North Korea mode when it comes to forum posts asking legitimate questions from the leader of the largest alliance in the entire game? Why the cencorship? Was it needed ? Did they really need to mass-spam the forum, instead of a few more subtile approaches first and give CCP some time for a proper response. It's not that this issue was about to run away, if you not immediately mass-spam the forums ! And I also wonder of course, why these three issues needed to be brought up on a friday. Afaik the ones, who revealed it, knew about it already longer, but seems they wanted to use it with maximum effect. I better don't say what I think about that. I certainly also want to know, what Sharkbait was doing there at the pos and why he needs to join the corp to do it. Makes no sense to me. Guess he could do anything, what he likes already, without joining a corp and without being noticed at all. Anyway, I'm waiting for an offical answer and don't believe, what some frustrated players make up now. I want to know the truth, and don't care much what some lynch mob makes out of it, who is biased anyway. If they want to quit, before they have more info, let them do it. Bye bye. Less whining, more chance to solve this in an appropriate way in the end. I think you're missing the point that there was a calm approach taken first, and it was immediately deleted. If the calm approach doesn't work, more drastic measures are taken. Obviously they will not respond to the calm approach, they just continue to cover up and deny.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:30:00 - [1528] Subscription Status: Active Cancellation Pending Expires: 08.June.2007 It is the only thing CCP will understand.
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:31:00 - [1529] Originally by: Wuubaa LOL 57 pages of uninformed self-righteous opinionated witch hunting based on the creative journalism of a bitter ex employee and the spam biggest group of petulant idiots ingame. Simply awesome! And 57 pages of BoB making asses of themselves. you may be the biggest alliance, but your NOT the majority of the playerbase. This has **** all to do with BoB, this has to do with a underlying mistrust the community has with CCP and they inetractions with the playerbase. CCP has foster this, and made the bed they are in atm.. They need to sort it, or expect the mistruct to contiune to fester, and have everything they do views with mistrust. Simple solotuion bad ccp comployees from having any relations from a game play persepctive with the player base.. This is afterall their business, and not they play ground. ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:31:00 - [1530] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Edited by: Sentinel Eeex on 26/05/2007 13:06:40 Edited by: Sentinel Eeex on 26/05/2007 13:05:25 Originally by: Avon It is almost as if the whole thing has been timed to have the maximum impact, before it can be addressed .. or am I just being cynical? I'm going to start selling dramallama milk. I'll make a fortune the way everyone here laps the stuff up. Avon, small question. Have you ever used MSN (or any other instant chat/messaging/communication program) in order to communicate with CCP employees (devs, GMs, ISD, whatever)? Thanks for an honest answer. EDIT2: rephrased some more, yay As I already stated, I don't use MSN (or any other IM service). Since IRC (or TS/Vent) don't fit into IM, I'll just assume "no" was given for those too. Good to know that there are respected BoB players that never communicated with CCP employees, using out of game means (except fanfest, I guess) Thanks.
Orange Species Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:35:00 - [1531] This thread has deteriorated into one big Chinese whisper. Next thing you know it will be something like "dev steals all of goons t1 frigate bpo's whilst simultaneously offlining all pos and stealing the xetic and CA minerals from Foyle and CYVOK to build a Jovian titan" ---------------------------- Please do not discuss moderator actions in your sig. Email us at [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
Thomas Torquemada Minmatar Universal Peace Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:36:00 - [1532] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: jeffb Originally by: Kerfira And yet... it appears his affiliation WAS to the enemy side.... possibly the suspicion was right? TBH, I don't know either way. I just know of no major alliance who are happy having ISD people around when they're doing ops, specifically because of the impossibility of determining whether they're spies or not... If you would read the open letter you would see that he was in Aegis Militia Alliance, an empire roleplaying alliance with no connection to 0.0... And what has that to do with anything? Afaik, ISD characters don't show their mains alliance/corp, so the only info avail was an ISD guy acting suspiciously and maybe in a way that made him look like he was spying... No-one should second guess an ISD members motives, their ISD for a reason, ISD doesnt mean your just an alt with power, their there for a job, and no player should be able to strongarm an ISD player away then wield the power to ban them on a whim. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Arl GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:36:00 - [1533] Some people talked about this in-game and had their accounts permanently banned. Given the number of replies here I don't think this is a secret anymore, any chance of a statement on if CCP intend lifting the permanent game account bans imposed?
Hermia HIVE X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:37:00 - [1534] Not really happy with BOB and GOONS. As far as i'm concerned they both progressed the "Mega Game" to unprecedented levels forcing everyone (everyone involved in the competitive game - 0.0 empires) to tread in dangerous waters. Its the only way to remain competitive. Important to note that: Their are really only a couple of real contenders, everyone else is a side show. So are we really surprised where the BOB/GOON antics take us? Mud slinging and high emotional exchange is not cool, really not cool, im worried. I do acknowledge that only a very small portion of the CCP/BOB/GOON circle is involved. I sincerely hope that everything is put right
Smith Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:37:00 - [1535] Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate The POS was bugged? Funny you should say that, as the POS owners have on several occasions stated that the POS was not bugged, no one petitioned the GM and they were pretty damn surprised to see a GM in their corp. Damn I been found out. See you in NOL in 3 weeks?
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:38:00 - [1536] Originally by: Arl Some people talked about this in-game and had their accounts permanently banned. Given the number of replies here I don't think this is a secret anymore, any chance of a statement on if CCP intend lifting the permanent game account bans imposed? Tbh, the rest of the spamming goons should be banned too.
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:38:00 - [1537] Originally by: Arl Some people talked about this in-game and had their accounts permanently banned. Given the number of replies here I don't think this is a secret anymore, any chance of a statement on if CCP intend lifting the permanent game account bans imposed? If thats not abuse of power what is... They should have accounts reinstated immediatly and get an apology from CCP. ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
Chirinako Caldari Legionari Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:38:00 - [1538] A GM joined a Goon corp to fix a faulty POS so of course Sirmolle obviously phoned up the high honchoes at CCP beforehand asking him to do this to get Bob top secret info. ^Look at yourselves lmao. CCP have no affiliation with Bob. Just because you're too weak and unorganised to beat them with 3/4 of Eve on your side, doesn't mean you have to resort to more l33td3vh4x allegations. Face it, you're losing because Bob are better than you, not because they're cheating. The GM in question has done this sort of thing before, it's his JOB. He didn't do that to give any priveledged information to anyone.
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:40:00 - [1539] Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 26/05/2007 13:39:59 Originally by: Chirinako CCP have no affiliation with Bob. Diana confirmed himself that they do, but you know better ofc! Oh my god the ******ation heh r3t4rd is in the filter, strange :D idiot is not ghm - BH
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:42:00 - [1540] Originally by: Orange Species This thread has deteriorated into one big Chinese whisper. Next thing you know it will be something like "dev steals all of goons t1 frigate bpo's whilst simultaneously offlining all pos and stealing the xetic and CA minerals from Foyle and CYVOK to build a Jovian titan" I see where you're coming from orange, next thing you know they'll be saying something like the devs are giving bob free t2 bpos or some other nonsense. I dont understand why CCP dont silence anyone who thinks bob are cheats.
Sujin Kai Starship Direct	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:42:00 - [1541] Originally by: Avon I fail to see how all this "CCP should not play" stuff has come about from this thread. Sharkbait joined a corp WITH HIS DEV CHARACTER, as part of his job. What on earth does that have to do with CCP playing on TQ? Well first of all, it remains to be seen whether that was above board, even though it probably was. It's strange that the petitions about his entry into the corp were instantly deleted. But actually I think the "CCP shouldn't play" thing has more to do with an ISD member possibly being fired as a result of back-channel pressure by BoB members. It's funny that so many BoB people are saying "let's wait for the investigation :rolleyes:", since by the sound of it you guys could find out whether or not the allegations are true just be consulting your own memories.
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:43:00 - [1542] cry more, whineswarm -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Xooja The Illucian Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:43:00 - [1543] Point 1 ------- CCP Internal affairs department was created to respond to reports of, and look for instances of cheating involving CCP staff. Any instance of grievance involving CCP staff should be sent to the CCP Arkanon or the IA contact address. However... Point 2 ------- People will always tend towards becoming the same as their environment. We have seen already that there are a few people in game that use underhand tactics to get the edge: 1) Requesting CCP employees do things via MSN when they know this will cause damage to CCP if it gets out 2) Accepting gifts from CCP employees rather than reporting that employee to CCP for misconduct etc. So anyone playing in this environment will think this kind of behaviour is ok, and do the same, like making information public and making an enemey alliance look bad instead of doing everything possible to keep it internal with CCP. The only people who can change the environment are CCP and the EVE Community.
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:43:00 - [1544] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Orange Species This thread has deteriorated into one big Chinese whisper. Next thing you know it will be something like "dev steals all of goons t1 frigate bpo's whilst simultaneously offlining all pos and stealing the xetic and CA minerals from Foyle and CYVOK to build a Jovian titan" I see where you're coming from orange, next thing you know they'll be saying something like the devs are giving bob free t2 bpos or some other nonsense. I dont understand why CCP dont silence anyone who thinks bob are cheats. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Class, n1, made my day - BH
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:44:00 - [1545] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Orange Species This thread has deteriorated into one big Chinese whisper. Next thing you know it will be something like "dev steals all of goons t1 frigate bpo's whilst simultaneously offlining all pos and stealing the xetic and CA minerals from Foyle and CYVOK to build a Jovian titan" I see where you're coming from orange, next thing you know they'll be saying something like the devs are giving bob free t2 bpos or some other nonsense. I dont understand why CCP dont silence anyone who thinks bob are cheats. /vote best post in thread.
Psilocin Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:44:00 - [1546] Originally by: Orange Species This thread has deteriorated into one big Chinese whisper. Next thing you know it will be something like "dev steals all of goons t1 frigate bpo's whilst simultaneously offlining all pos and stealing the xetic and CA minerals from Foyle and CYVOK to build a Jovian titan" What is it like to post with a blindfold on and cotton in your ears?? Really I'd like to know. Either way I must express my utter contempt for CCP's handling of this matter and their obvious attempts to quiet those who object to it. The Blizzard employee's post pretty much sums up my entire opinion on the matter, as well. CCP has to either fix this or sink like the already defunct rock they are. Just look at SWG.
Aya Drunken And Disorderly	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:45:00 - [1547] Quote: A GM joined a Goon corp to fix a faulty POS so of course Sirmolle obviously phoned up the high honchoes at CCP beforehand asking him to do this to get Bob top secret info. ^Look at yourselves lmao. CCP have no affiliation with Bob. Just because you're too weak and unorganised to beat them with 3/4 of Eve on your side, doesn't mean you have to resort to more l33td3vh4x allegations. Face it, you're losing because Bob are better than you, not because they're cheating. The GM in question has done this sort of thing before, it's his JOB. He didn't do that to give any priveledged information to anyone. I think this is the BoB and pet corp screening process 1. "Will you believe every lie we ever tell you?" 2. "Will you defend our lies to the death on the forums" Seriously how can you say they have NO affiliation with GM's when they just admitted several times to having them all on MSN, and not just BoB members but Seleene and others as well. I mean did you even read half of these responses? Or will you just blindly follow BoB off a cliff no questions asked. www.evedady.com
Trilli Shaw	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:45:00 - [1548] Originally by: maria stallion It would be so cool if the whiners in this thread quit eve [...] It would be so much cooler if bob & buddies would stop to cheat then there would be no need for 'whining'. But obviously they haven't changed even a tiny bit since the t20 incident. They still use every legal and illegal way to 'win' this game. Instead that they made some internal rules against cheating and enforcing them strictly they only cheat more and more, and now you have the face to tell the honest player something about whining?!
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:45:00 - [1549] In response to a BoB's moderated post about wishing everyone would quit so there would only be intelligence left. You mean there would only be people left that were ignorant of your cheating and collusion?
Hobart Springsforth	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:46:00 - [1550] Originally by: Okane Kudasai Well - I'm going to add my bit - don't expect to be read or understood but here goes.... To the Eve Community that responded angrily to this incident .... FACT: People, it is a GAME. So .. Why do you get emotive about storms in tea-cups? In the scheme of your life and the reason you play, how does this matter? You play NOT for destroying things or earning fake money but for sharing. This most basic of human requirements, is the basis for this type of game to exist and thrive. If you are the type of human to get over excited by percieved inconsistancies (and it is your perception we are refering to) then the way you can deal with is is by DIS-ASSOCIATION. What this means is you have to step back from the situation and ask some simple "grounding" questions which could go like so.... Why does this situation cause this reaction in me? Who is being affected by my reaction, and does it feature in a positive way to those affected? Is this reaction going to affect the quality of my life and those closest to me? How does this reaction affect me physically - could this make me ill? Can I let this go and move on? So, lets move on .... Now, on the game and the interaction of developers with players and BALANCE... Real life is not balanced and I would love to see some reality injected into this game, where there is competing and secrecy, domination and retribution on a MASSIVE scale, for example - Jovians enslave the Eve community and get them to work for the Jovian dictators - something that requires all of us to overcome and triumph. I see these little glitches in the game as the natural unbalance the we have in life struggling to break through the constraints we place around the game. Natures concept of balance is violent and unforgiving, prey is eaten by predator and in turn killed by something else. In the midst of this carnage and depravity, we find golden moments that brings with it, personal fulfilment and contentment and time enough to play a game...Eve Share and let go .... life is too short Another fact: games have rules, just like monopoly and cleudo and any other game you care to mention so that someone does not ruin the game for everyone else. Imagine if the banker in monopoly secretly started giving himself 100 dollar bills everytime he passed go, because he thought it would be good for competition, he starts taking up lots of properties, before you know it the other players have no property cards left are deep in debt and wonder how they lost.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:46:00 - [1551] Edited by: Victor Vision on 26/05/2007 13:48:42 Originally by: maria stallion Edited by: maria stallion on 26/05/2007 13:32:13 It would be so cool if the whiners in this thread quit eve, that would mean eve would only have people with intelligence left. So people who criticise have no intelligence? Quite the contrary. It is critical people who are inventors, engineers, philosophers, CEOs, journalists, designers etc. The usual way to better something is to critically analyze what is status quo, find and announce the flaws and then make improvements from there. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Jack Malus Gallente Phoenix Wing The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:46:00 - [1552] Sad to see Graelyn leave the game in this fashion. He was prominent personality in the Eve RP community and I have alot of respect for him. ---
Ektor	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:47:00 - [1553] can anyone send to me a msn of a gm? I would be pleased to have a personnal petitionnal service as everyone seems to have how much does it cost? we can consider it as a feature of the game, not really a bug, as a lot of people seems to used it regurlary, so it's like the titan bowling, etc maybe we can find these msn adresses at jita in contract? it's stange to learn that in the game you're paying for some people have these advantages, that some people do never pay their subscription (300M for a 90 gdc card, when you have a feature like 1h repop of biggest loot in the game, it's a joke), and that they have the best support : a friend. why should I continue to pay for these gamers? I feel cheated. if ccp does not answer, will cancel all my accounts.
Major Stallion The Dark Horses Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:47:00 - [1554] every other game i've played, the devs and gms have either their own guilds to stay apart of, or they stay strictly on test server. I'm sorry but CCP by allowing your admins and devs the freedom to join whatever corp they wish is a little tainted. END THIS NOW. They arent here to play the game like everyone else, theyre here to develop it and test it. Now am i saying that even their personal accounts should be barred from doing what they want, NO. But to see the way these devs and gms in question have acted by abusing their powers with their "CCP (dev name)" names is a disgrace and a blemish on a rather impeccable game and dev crew. These employees in question shouldnt even be given a "warning" or a "second chance". Let them pay for their stupid ass mistakes by firing them. They are not here to PWN it up with BoB or any other Alliance/Corporation. They are here to help develop this game to see that we all have fun, and by allowing them free reign over the game, CCP is making a big mistake. Fire said employees if they're found guilty....bottom line.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:47:00 - [1555] I think a lot of people are missing out on Graelyns revelations. Which incidentally fit exactly with what I know and I knew him in game and he was a man of honour to the best of my knowledge. There has been massive cheating favouring BOB since they first appeared. The tournaments have been fixed in their favour. (This is why my alliance (CVA) don't enter the alliance tournaments.) The purpose of this thread is to get all the complaints in one place so soon they can close the thread and try and pretend it didn't happen as they did with the last revelations. I don't believe for one minute CCP intend to try and stop this cheating. Cover up is the only game they know. Only drastic action could save Eve now and CCP don't yet understand how serious these things are.
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:48:00 - [1556] Maybe EVE is so buggy because the Devs spend more time playing the game than actually fixing it O.o?
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:49:00 - [1557] Originally by: Victor Vision Edited by: Victor Vision on 26/05/2007 13:46:05 Originally by: maria stallion Edited by: maria stallion on 26/05/2007 13:32:13 It would be so cool if the whiners in this thread quit eve, that would mean eve would only have people with intelligence left. So people who criticise have no intelligence? Actually it is critical people who are inventors, engineers, philosophers, CEOs, journalists, designers etc. The usual way to better something is to critically analyze what is status quo, find and announce the flaws and then make improvements from there. Conspiracy theorists are not critics, as much as they would like to believe they are. No, inventors, engineers etc are usually not conspiracy theorists.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:49:00 - [1558] Originally by: Beyond Horizon Diana confirmed himself that they do, but you know better ofc! Oh my god the ******ation Talking to someone is not the same as being affiliated with them. Stop trying to twist things in order to score e-points, the level of discussion is poor enough already. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:49:00 - [1559] Originally by: Victor Vision Edited by: Victor Vision on 26/05/2007 13:46:05 Originally by: maria stallion Edited by: maria stallion on 26/05/2007 13:32:13 It would be so cool if the whiners in this thread quit eve, that would mean eve would only have people with intelligence left. So people who criticise have no intelligence? Attacking the poster instead of the issue is the lowest form of debate (Oh yeah? Well..... you're stupid!). Let them. It shows their maturity level.
Milesofun	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:49:00 - [1560] LMAO We had a isd frigate try to bump a corpmate off a gate in zero, petioned = we will look into it. So why not the istaban? Thats right, me is not in BoB, what are you doing about the msn contacts to avoid the petion sytem, please send out the contact points to all player so i can avoid the petionsystem, thanks for your time, and fire the Gm's/Dev's who can't get the fact this is a job and not help my friends out and get paid for it. If they want a relationship get a girlfriend or married. If you can't get this sorted just make this a free game, that way i know i'm getting hosed, but i'd have no expection of getting a fair chance. Show the nice people the door who can't play by the rule's. Then they can be mates with anyone and it won't change the gameplay or the outcome of any battles. If they want a job be a professional of they want to be a player helping out their friends then work for another company.
Trelbourne	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:50:00 - [1561] I love the way some people here are willing to give up playing Eve just to make a point. God, CCP would have to come around personally and beat me half to death before I considered giving up Eve :-) They're obviously not addicted enough lol.... James
Karma Gallente Mos Eisley Consortium	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:50:00 - [1562] hmmm... seems it's about time I did some work around here for once. _________________ "No Worries" Karma, fool on the hull.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:52:00 - [1563] Originally by: Aralis I think a lot of people are missing out on Graelyns revelations. Which incidentally fit exactly with what I know and I knew him in game and he was a man of honour to the best of my knowledge. There has been massive cheating favouring BOB since they first appeared. The tournaments have been fixed in their favour. (This is why my alliance (CVA) don't enter the alliance tournaments.) Since you're so sure the tournaments were fixed, i am sure you can explain to us how they were fixed. Otherwise you wouldn't know that of course. So go ahead.
breadcat	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:52:00 - [1564] CCP employees, you better stop playing your game, otherwise you will become unemployed.
RevJim	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:52:00 - [1565] I like being a Devils Advocate... Ok, from what I gather, an ISD member went to a system where BoB were attacking a PoS, I won't go into 'bowling' issues... the ISD pilot was asked to go away by BoB, he didn't and there were accusations of the ISD member bumping dreads with his polaris friggie. A short time later a GM/Dev removed the ISD member and banned all his accounts (I think I have that correct?) The chatter then was about how BoB used MSN to contact a GM/Dev and get them to remove the ISD pilot. BOOM!! big disscusion and accusations of cheating. Well, look at the same situation from the opposite side (kinda) Goonfleet alliance is taking down a BoB pos, an ISD pilot turns up in system to watch... I suspect that Goonfleet would go appoplectic and scream 'BoB spy!!.... BoB have ISD/GM/Dev help!... cheaters!...' ad nauseam. I am not a fan of BoB, but I am losing respect for Goonfleet. I think they just want to break the game, using whatever means necessary, metagaming, accusations of GM/Dev cheating whatever. This is my main
ThanatosGOD	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:56:00 - [1566] There are several things that are upsetting with this scenario. First is the fact that you only address Sharkbait's issue and not the other MAJOR issues that are discussed in further detail. Also the other thing that is very disturbing is that your banning accounts for posting links to PUBLISHED sites stating the allegations! So i guess that freedom of speach doesnt exist in eve? Is eve more like Germany in WWII where they killed people who spoke out about what was going on? And yes, to some people banning their account is like killing them. The way it seems to me is that you have a serious problem on hand. No body is trusting the CCP now, and everyone belives that CCP is with BOB. So no matter what you do, the gamming public will still belive that you are with BOB no matter what you say. I feel sorry for the ccp employees that are actually doing their jobs that have to deal with the mess that these "BOB" lovers created. Best of luck fixing this fubar because i think your going to need it! ThanatosGOD
EvilSyKOSkitzo Durus Scelus	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:56:00 - [1567] Ok, fine. If CCP employees want to play this game. Let us see their characters, let us see what their characters skills are, their assets, ships and stick them all into one corporation or alliance so that we know who they are and what we are playing against. And do not let them play in player owned corporations or alliance because that skews the playing field. I have seen developers and admins play against other players in other games like Darkspace. You always knew who you where fighting against and no one received preferential, even if you where friends. Now, wouldn't that relieve a lot of problems and allow the developers/admins play the game they have developed? - Evil
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:57:00 - [1568] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Beyond Horizon Diana confirmed himself that they do, but you know better ofc! Oh my god the *****ation Talking to someone is not the same as being affiliated with them. Stop trying to twist things in order to score e-points, the level of discussion is poor enough already. Avon, Dianabolic said he was friends with devs, and he said he has their MSN. If you had an unbiased view, you would agree that this is problemactic concidering his position in the game, combined with the position of devs in the game. Judging by many BoB posts in this thread it almost leaves the impression some have completely lost their feeling of what fairplay is. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)*
Elmicker Unscoped Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:58:00 - [1569] Originally by: Beyond Horizon Diana confirmed himself that they do, but you know better ofc! Oh my god the ******ation I saw Dianabolic saying that members of BoB maintain friendly relations with employees of CCP. That is not the same as the two entities working together, to cheat at internet spaceships.
Sperrzone Stardust Heavy Industries Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:58:00 - [1570] GM¦s shouldn¦t be allowed to Play. It¦s very sad that such stuff comes up again and again. You screw you own Game with such things. Kick you staff immideatly when they do so, because they damage you company. How can we trust in CCP when you put up a Smokescreen and let the evidence fall under the Table. And NO player should be able to IM ANY!!! CCP staff, as its an advantage that NOONE should ever have
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:58:00 - [1571] Posted - 2007.05.26 11:34:00 - [1532] - Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. CCP Arkanon CCP Internal Affairs I disagreed politely with his opinion in post Nr.1660 because the truth is that a lot of people got banned only because they linked an OPEN letter to guys who asked whats up - and i got censored nice work, very quick. I don't expect that this post last long, bye
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:58:00 - [1572] Can't stop the signal CCP. ---------------- If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a browser that supports .png.
Katchoo The Black Guards Solaris Consortium	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:59:00 - [1573] Originally by: Victor Vision The usual way to better something is to critically analyze what is status quo, find and announce the flaws and then make improvements from there. Wow, I thought "analyze what is status quo" meant more than just blaming for what you read on forums posts - but I guess looking for facts is not a requirement anymore ?
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:59:00 - [1574] I remember Eve in 2003/2004. I miss Eve 2003/2004. I'd happily give up all the content, expansions, fixes and improvements that have come about since to go back to the gaming experience and community feeling of 03 and 04. All this crap is getting out of hand, from both sides of the fence. >>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:02:00 - [1575] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Beyond Horizon Diana confirmed himself that they do, but you know better ofc! Oh my god the ******ation I saw Dianabolic saying that members of BoB maintain friendly relations with employees of CCP. That is not the same as the two entities working together, to cheat at internet spaceships. I see a lot of pets and arse lickers ! - BH
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:03:00 - [1576] Originally by: Sujin Kai Originally by: Avon I fail to see how all this "CCP should not play" stuff has come about from this thread. Sharkbait joined a corp WITH HIS DEV CHARACTER, as part of his job. What on earth does that have to do with CCP playing on TQ? Well first of all, it remains to be seen whether that was above board, even though it probably was. It's strange that the petitions about his entry into the corp were instantly deleted. But actually I think the "CCP shouldn't play" thing has more to do with an ISD member possibly being fired as a result of back-channel pressure by BoB members. It's funny that so many BoB people are saying "let's wait for the investigation :rolleyes:", since by the sound of it you guys could find out whether or not the allegations are true just be consulting your own memories. Somebody was fired based on hearsay.... I still don't believe the open letter to be valid.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:03:00 - [1577] I only want truth now, justice done and the problems get fixed. If the ISD and aurora stories are true, justice means that CCP should officially admit their mistakes and openly apologize to the guy, who was kicked out of ISD and reveal the whole aurora story and apologize there also to the one, who wanted to clean up and got kicked out. Besides that it's surely time then that the contact between players and their ISD/dev buddies gets more professional and formal. This 'I call my ISD or dev friend' is totally crap and should never happen ! If someone contacts you and wants your help, because he knows that you are CCP employee and have power, then your answer should be: 'Can't do that. Go the usual way and write a petition !' It can only work this way. If you violate this rule, the scandals are really no wonder. Imho it's already unprofessional, if you let players know, that your player char belongs to a dev or ISD member. It's stupid, can only lead to trouble. But like I said, if those things are true, it's time for CCP to apollogize to those ISD/aurora members, who got kicked/silenced.
Daqinson The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:04:00 - [1578] Originally by: Iwone I would love to ask CCP ppl to tell us how many more times we need to "trust" them. You ppl are ruining your own game. /Signed ---- ---- ---- ---- [center][b]Yes, I am better than you... Who says? My Masters Degree... Now continue to cook my fries...
Aya Drunken And Disorderly	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:05:00 - [1579] So far the excuses i have seen from BoB are: -You guys are stupid, just quit -We talk to them but we arent affiliated with them -GMs need friends too -We arent the only ones doing it, Seleene does it to -You have no proof, stfu (isnt the above statements proof enough, you basically just said GUILTY) Please keep your lame excuses coming, I would expect more from the number 1 trolling, flaming, smacktalking group in the game www.evedady.com
Big Al The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:07:00 - [1580] Edited by: Big Al on 26/05/2007 14:08:42 Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. It only took a threadnaught to completely disable the forums before you would say anything about this issue. A single thread was posted, and immediately deleted. That sounds pretty much like silencing to me tbh. CCP it's your game, do what you want, but don't blow smoke up our asses about it being 'fair' It also continues to show that forum spam = results, which is sad for the community at large.
Jita MarketWhore	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:09:00 - [1581] Edited by: Jita Market**** on 26/05/2007 14:13:24* Adj.1.vitriolic - harsh or corrosive in tone;"a barrage of acid comments";"bitter words"; "blistering criticism"; etc.. etc.. While criticism is good and health to do here we have 59 + pages of this vitriolic mentality .... I have a Question why would a CCP employee will log with his DEV account to do something BAD to a virtual corporation (dont forget this is his job and he gets RL money for it), when he has the GOD access and he can see what they have , do ,done.. etc.. maybe cause he wanted to check something that maybe was wrong ? (i cannot see me doing something like this if i was a dev or member from this RL corporation.) So is hard for me to beleive that this is the case. I am not saying that there is no coruption (t20 incident) but hey this getting out of hand my opinion on this ..if i had a problem with this action of CCP i will give my stuff and leave the game BUT i have not this problem and to be ownest i care little for something like this insident cause i see no real problem with what sharkbait did .. Sharkbait if you ever want please join my corp any time you want mate.. i will make you director as well and dont let this silly attitude from the people you try to help bother you.. And NO i have absolute NOTHING to do with CCP i am NOT a DEV or CCP empoyee just a player in this game and i have more good thinks to say then bad ones about CCP and there stuff.. If you want you can FLAME this post you can call me CCP fun boy but...i really dont care about.. cause i give them more hell in my petitions that you will ever imagine. Also CCP get your act and clean the game from the macros,comlpex farmers, exploiters, isk sellers for real life currency...
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:09:00 - [1582] Originally by: Big Al Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. It only took a threadnaught to completely disable the forums before you would say anything about this issue. A single thread was posted, and immediately deleted. That sounds pretty much like silencing to me tbh. CCP it's your game, do what you want, but don't blow smoke up our asses about it being 'fair' Yeah, just conveniently forget the fact that this was carefully timed to friday night before a holiday weekend when nobody senior was a work More tinfoil plz! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
RaYaa Gallente Inferus Gens Militis	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:09:00 - [1583] I really hope Start Trek Online will be worth playing ... and to finally cancel all EVE-O acc's. Its kinda makes me sick when i see CCP spiting in face their customers over and over again ... your face, your ass -- what's the difference?
Hauler's Gal Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:10:00 - [1584] Originally by: Smith Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate The POS was bugged? Funny you should say that, as the POS owners have on several occasions stated that the POS was not bugged, no one petitioned the GM and they were pretty damn surprised to see a GM in their corp. Damn I been found out. See you in NOL in 3 weeks? If there was a petition then it would be extremely easy and quick for the GM's or CCP to say 'Oh my yes, there was a petition...' They wouldn't have to name and shame the individual, they could easily blot out the name of the creator (if this petition exists) Lol Wuubaa, slapped by the forum mods again ? You did say you had a habit of that :P
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:12:00 - [1585] Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 26/05/2007 11:17:05 The problem with CCP is that they arent professionals running a buisness. The most are friends playing a game to gether making good money out of it. You can see that in everything they do.. Improfessional behavior \ dev blogs \actions all around.. Having devs playing the game as normal players which is asking fro problems.. They have created an envoirment which is impossible to stay true and honest. People should wake up quickly... Thinking that CCP is an honest organisation. Its not.. There people playing a game.. That about sums EVE, tbh.
Pherusa Plumosa Minmatar Freedom for All The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:12:00 - [1586] From my odd grammar and diction you might reason that I am German and therefore a D¦ fan/pet. But I am quite new to this game, I have no old friendships or vendetti which would influence me in any way, so let's try to be logic The main problem is, that developers, game masters have to be neutral in such a highly political game like Eve. Imagine a Football (Soccer) World Cup Final between Italia and France with French referees. That's a loose-loose situation for the referees and the French Team. If they loose, they loose. If they win, they will be accused of cheating. Or a judge who has to adjudge a close friend of him, wouldn't he tend to be more forbearing with his penalty? Yes, he would shurely. Employees playing Eve are biased, so CCP founded the Internal Affairs team, but now they are accused to be also involved in some fishy occurrences? That is very critical, since CCP looses more and more credibility. Who wants to play a game which is influenced by nepotism and arbitrariness? The solution is hard, but simple. Prohibit employees of CCP to influence Eve-politics. I know, employees are playing Eve to know the odds & ends of their game, but where is the use of playing characters which affect the political landscape of Eve that massive? A small 0.0 Alliance has the same problems as D¦. Ok, no 700 ppl capital blobls with 3 Titans firering, but Capital warfare affect less than 5% of the players. Alliance politics has nothing to do with game developement, it should be a matter of the player base. Just withdraw the employees accounts from big alliances like bob, d¦, ra, goon, whatever. If they start moaning and complaining, they are biased anyway. Another solution: Employees are allowed to play in big alliances, but are not allowed to make friends. But both, employees playing taking part in big Eve business and having close friends within those alliances, that can only lead from one misconduct to another, because CCP staff is human. And what if another misconduct occurs? Simple. Punish them, remove them from staff. You would also fire an employee who missapplies corporate possession, for example money or real estate. But Eve is a game and CCPs wealth is the huge player base paying for gtcs. CCP has to understand that dev misconduct is no peccadillo, but it is highly criminal. Leaking information, spawning items, treating players favored is a serious delict. Bad publicity and an angry player base are deadly for a Game Company. I know, keeping contact with the playerbase is a good thing, but that should involve also the community, not just single players. Friendships are a good thing, but they always make you less objective. So if you want feedback from the player base, why not ask the community? Start polls and discussions or just pick a random pilot flying lvl4 missions, is flying 0.0 campaigns or camping systems. I bet he will be happy and grateful to respond to your questions about Eve. I know, Eve is a very thrilling and absorbing game. The employees should know that best and stay out of it, because it is too tempting to influence the history of New Eden. Pherusa
Dyeadmheet	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:12:00 - [1587] Originally by: Aralis Only drastic action could save Eve now and CCP don't yet understand how serious these things are. Effective form of protest: CANCEL THE AUTORENEWAL on your account! Just go here and click "cancel account" in the upper right corner. This will stop any autorenewal you have set up but won't cancel your account immediately. (It will still work until the end of the period that you've paid for.) Beyond that I'd say let your account lapse for at least a day once that period is over, if you're still not happy with CCP's response.
alpheon Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:12:00 - [1588] Edited by: alpheon on 26/05/2007 14:13:32 Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. -- from --> http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=526462&page=44#1311 /signed CCP, read this, learn from it.
Sevarus James Minmatar Meridian Dynamics FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:12:00 - [1589] Originally by: Verone I remember Eve in 2003/2004. I miss Eve 2003/2004. I'd happily give up all the content, expansions, fixes and improvements that have come about since to go back to the gaming experience and community feeling of 03 and 04. All this crap is getting out of hand, from both sides of the fence. Couldn't have said it better myself. Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE
Stork DK Red 42	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:13:00 - [1590] I present the solution!! Every single eve player will be reguired to join Band Of Brothers. Now we're all cheating and noone gets offended. This also means that we have noone to fight, then slowly BoB will tear itself apart from the inside by backstabbing and greed for greater power over the allience members. In the end the BoB alliance will shatter and fractions of the old BoB will Rise and crush the remains of BoB...
ns10	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:13:00 - [1591] Makes me feel a bit pooh after all the long fights with Bob when I was in ascn might not have been fair. There was allways talks about bob cheating, after reading http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html all that it makes me sad. This totally put's CCP's integeraty (however you spell it), in question. I love eve for the fact that you can make a difference, you can change the outcome of events. Doesn't hold so true after reading all of this :( I think CCP need to really look into this or else people will move on soon.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:13:00 - [1592] Originally by: RaYaa I really hope Start Trek Online will be worth playing ... and to finally cancel all EVE-O acc's. Its kinda makes me sick when i see CCP spiting in face their customers over and over again ... Can i have your stuffs?
Polemos	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:14:00 - [1593] I have been playing off and on since the game was released...and now finally... I just completed giving away all my assets and my characters are in the biomass. This evening I will delete them. I am done here. This event has proven to me that CCP has no concept of how to treat their customer base. The way all of this has been handled is worse than the event itself. I have never heard of a MMO company taking down its forums to silence the protests. Whatever CCP says after the 'look into these matters', I can't trust. CCP, you can't practice draconian censorship while asking people to 'trust you' and expect good results.
Beyond Horizon Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:14:00 - [1594] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: RaYaa I really hope Start Trek Online will be worth playing ... and to finally cancel all EVE-O acc's. Its kinda makes me sick when i see CCP spiting in face their customers over and over again ... Can i have your stuffs? For some strange reason I really hate this saying.. maybe because every r3tard in this game thinks it's his duty to say it? - BH
ITBob	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:16:00 - [1595] Nothing less than full disclosure of all fact findings and methods is the best course of action. Even then there will always be those that doubt and the conspiracy theorists taking shots. Unfortunately, if it means a blemish for CCP then we will most likely never see a full disclosure rather a press release style statement about unfounded allegations. If there was wrong doing or shady behavior, please disclose it, deal with the issue and put measures in place to help prevent it in the future.
ns10	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:16:00 - [1596] Anything against or about a dev in a forum gets censored instantly, and we are told to contact devs about it instead of forums...but I don't believe we can trust them....so where is our voice? How do we put cros our concerns?
Vaeldan Athargan Caldari Navy 'Black Knights' VFA-154	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:16:00 - [1597] Originally by: Beyond Horizon Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: RaYaa I really hope Start Trek Online will be worth playing ... and to finally cancel all EVE-O acc's. Its kinda makes me sick when i see CCP spiting in face their customers over and over again ... Can i have your stuffs? For some strange reason I really hate this saying.. maybe because every r3tard in this game thinks it's his duty to say it? /signed
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:17:00 - [1598] Originally by: Beyond Horizon Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: RaYaa I really hope Start Trek Online will be worth playing ... and to finally cancel all EVE-O acc's. Its kinda makes me sick when i see CCP spiting in face their customers over and over again ... Can i have your stuffs? For some strange reason I really hate this saying.. maybe because every r3tard in this game thinks it's his duty to say it? I make it my business in this thread to acquire as much wealth as possible. Now is the right opportunity with alot of people saying they will quit. Let's hope they do.
Sweet Majoram	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:17:00 - [1599] Edited by: Sweet Majoram on 26/05/2007 14:22:50 59 pages CCP 59 pages! Look what you've done. You're killing your child in its infancy and stearalizing yourself. You think anyone's going to try the new MMO you're coming out with when you can't even keep your employees from causing mass desertions? You better think again. You have some people you pay or give free acounts to in exchange for their service... and their killing your business. I suggest you better get your self a ******* lawyer and let them SOB's know you will come after them for every penny they cause your business to loose. That will snap the childish BS'ing right the F out of them. What else are you going to do, huh? it's obvious that the abuse of power is a workplace community. You're not going to do squat about that by being quiet and presenting one person like that T-20 joke you told us. We're done laughing. You're not funny. You're under the microscope and you're not going to get away with this or anything else. there's over 100,000 interested eve players. how many employees you got? you got about 1000 players per each of one of you guys just waiting for you to pee crooked so they can chop your.... Edit: all things that may sound like physical threats are meant metaphorically (should have proofread)
Meira Iskais	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:18:00 - [1600] Lets just lag bomb jita and other hub systems with thousands of shuttles until they give in to our demands Terrorism FTW!!
Lil Mule	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:19:00 - [1601] Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post. /signed I fully and completely agree with this post /signed
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:21:00 - [1602] Edited by: Vantras on 26/05/2007 14:19:47 The game is a cesspool at every level. Devs cheat, CCP lies, blocks threads, deletes, ignores major game issues etc. They act with an extreme level of arrogance and a remarkable lack of understanding of good business sense or public relations. The players follow suit. We have massive logoffski, log in traps, pos bowling, folks spying, stealing, accessing each others forums, causing lag bombs, crashing nodes, doing virtually anything they can to "win".. The game has turned dark and negative from the top down and from the bottom up. I fear for its future-I think we might have a case study of a game that was a wild success that ate itself from within rather then being defeated by competition or an inferior product etc. Total self destruction in progress atm. CCP needs to do a Rudy Guliani here. Clean up your own shop, have full transparency from a dev/gm/corporate perspective. and then CLEAN UP THE GAME! Get rid of ** tactics like logoffski, node crashing, pos bowling...and other griefer-meta gaming bull**. Lets get back to enjoying the game. I think Verone nailed it--give us our eve from 2003/4. Take away all the fancy ships, pos's, titans etc--gladly! for a sense of community, fairness, and wonder that we all shared for so long.
Hoegen	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:21:00 - [1603] Originally by: Meira Iskais Lets just lag bomb jita and other hub systems with thousands of shuttles until they give in to our demands Terrorism FTW!! /Signed with a big S Now CCP... I want a titan!
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:21:00 - [1604] Edited by: Kerfira on 26/05/2007 14:22:35 Originally by: ns10 Anything against or about a dev in a forum gets censored instantly, and we are told to contact devs about it instead of forums...but I don't believe we can trust them....so where is our voice? How do we put cros our concerns? If you don't trust them, why do you insist on playing a game you believe is rigged??? When all is said and done, there's nothing in this thread remotely resembling proof. A lot of tinfoilhattery, allegations and accusations, but no PROOF of misconduct! The argument that CCP, a 200-man commercial company, should be there to favorise a certain part of the playerbase is pretty ridiculous when you look at it with unclouded eyes (and not obscured by tinfoil helmets).... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Bigby angels of darkness LTD Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:22:00 - [1605] Originally by: Verone I remember Eve in 2003/2004. I miss Eve 2003/2004. I'd happily give up all the content, expansions, fixes and improvements that have come about since to go back to the gaming experience and community feeling of 03 and 04. All this crap is getting out of hand, from both sides of the fence. this is the truth. right here ^^ people taking this game too seriously will kill it stone dead :(
Dreadnub Tin Foil Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:22:00 - [1606] 60 pages of newb corp alts presumably goons saying they are gonna quit. Please do, but with your mains.
JADE DRAG0NESS Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:22:00 - [1607] One of the main things i dont like about these incidents we have been having recently is the climate of feat thats arrisen. I remember when you could post about anything on these forums and not be afraid that you might get a perma ban from eve. Nowadays im actually scared to post on some subjects as i have heard of severall people getting banned because of this . As to the main subject of this thread i feel the main problem lies in the T20 incident it was hadled badly and it was still in the public mind when this incident happened. I hope CCp are inoccent as i do love eve but i do worry nowadays about eve. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:23:00 - [1608] Originally by: Verone I remember Eve in 2003/2004. I miss Eve 2003/2004. I'd happily give up all the content, expansions, fixes and improvements that have come about since to go back to the gaming experience and community feeling of 03 and 04. All this crap is getting out of hand, from both sides of the fence. This man speaks the truth. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Sha4d13	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:23:00 - [1609] Do folk really think that it is right to post endless, as yet entirely unproven and scarecely supported allegations about all sorts of others? Surely the appropriate thing is to wait for a proper investigation. On that subject, the suggestion that delay in making announcement is somehow a sign of guilt, is absurd. It would be utterly negligent for CCP to start making half arsed comments without having properly looked at matters and spoken to everyone. The allegations (which is all they are) at present appear to amount to- 1- Sharkbait did his job but didn't mention to the ceo of darkstar that he was doing it. 2- Bob members know some of the gms / devs and have contact details. Point one, without a hell of a lot more, is meaningless and certainly does not provide grounds for the crazy conclusions of sinister intent and of a BOB connection. No evidence of either whatsoever. Point 2 is hardly surprising. Many members of other alliances also know devs or gms. Again it doesnt amount to evidence of any significant wrongdoing. In fct its just an offensive assumption by people that both CCP and BOb are dishonest. Again- no evidence at all. A lot of folk are trying to fit facts to their conspiracy theory rather than vice versa. For god's sake people- wait for the proper information. Right now you have one side- and lots and lots of innuendo. Nothing more. Wait and see what is concluded by those in charge. I fear however- whatever the conclusion, and however valid or reasonable- there is a band of folk in this game who will be determined not to be believe it. Its a bit like moon landings, and the death of Princess Diana....
JADE DRAG0NESS Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:24:00 - [1610] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: ns10 Anything against or about a dev in a forum gets censored instantly, and we are told to contact devs about it instead of forums...but I don't believe we can trust them....so where is our voice? How do we put cros our concerns? If you don't trust them, why do you insist on playing a game you believe is rigged??? When all is said and done, there's nothing in this thread remotely resembling proof. A lot of tinfoilhattery, allegations and accusations, but no PROOF! The argument that CCP, a 200-man commercial company, should be there to favorise a certain part of the playerbase is pretty ridiculous when you look at it with unclouded eyes (and not obscured by tinfoil helmets).... You seem to forget that early in this topic a BoB member admited he and others have personall comunication lines to eve devs. And he admited the devs and BoB members are good friends so its not a large stretch of the imagination to support some of the alligations after all. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:24:00 - [1611] Interesting that the only defenders in this thread are BOB folks...with the occasional MCbob adding to the convo.. I'll post with my main <waves>. The game has a cancer, it'll kill it sooner rather then later. If you think 1500 posts is just a bunch of alts..wait till the gamer sites pick it up etc etc. The last scandal already permeated the entire gaming community-if you think this isnt negatively impacting the future of EVE you sir are naive....
Mr Bigglesworth Maza Nostra	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:25:00 - [1612] Edited by: Mr Bigglesworth on 26/05/2007 14:24:01 Originally by: Lil Mule Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post. /signed I fully and completely agree with this post /signed Take note CCP, there is the problem and theres only one fix. /signed
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:26:00 - [1613] Edited by: Kerfira on 26/05/2007 14:25:28 Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... You seem to forget that early in this topic a BoB member admited he and others have personall comunication lines to eve devs. And he admited the devs and BoB members are good friends so its not a large stretch of the imagination to support some of the alligations after all. So knowing someone is proof of misconduct, even when no such misconduct has been proven??? Lets see, I have one of my friends working in the tax authorities and have him in my IM..... OMG!!! I must be a tax cheater! Advice: Remove tinfoil hat! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Sha4d13	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:27:00 - [1614] " You seem to forget that early in this topic a BoB member admited he and others have personall comunication lines to eve devs. And he admited the devs and BoB members are good friends so its not a large stretch of the imagination to support some of the alligations after all." They are by no means alone in this. Does this mean that everyone who knows a dev or gm, and has contact details, must be dishonest and cheating? What nonsense! Perhaps all devs and gms should be banned from the outside world and locked in an ivory tower somewhere? Or perhaps people should actually work form the assumption that they do their job in a professional manner UNLESS there is something to show otherwise. Which, bar the t20 thing which was some time ago, there is not.
JADE DRAG0NESS Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:28:00 - [1615] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 26/05/2007 14:25:28 Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... You seem to forget that early in this topic a BoB member admited he and others have personall comunication lines to eve devs. And he admited the devs and BoB members are good friends so its not a large stretch of the imagination to support some of the alligations after all. So knowing someone is proof of misconduct, even when no such misconduct has been proven??? Lets see, I have one of my friends working in the tax authorities and have him in my IM..... OMG!!! I must be a tax cheater! Advice: Remove tinfoil hat! No its NOT definate proof... but it is sujestive, and they are only human and humans make mistakes aftereall. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Mr Bigglesworth Maza Nostra	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:28:00 - [1616] Originally by: Dreadnub 60 pages of newb corp alts presumably goons saying they are gonna quit. Please do, but with your mains. You are an idiot. Open your eyes
Miner Refiner Amarr Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:28:00 - [1617] Disclaimer: I am not an employee of CCP nor a BoB pet, but I do play Eve for a corporation which is in an alliance that is on good terms with BoB and works in space under BoB control. I am not in the management of FIX or of Black Avatar. Now ... The "optics" of this situation are deplorable. If no wrong has been done, nevertheless the confidence of paying customers has eroded to such an extent that mollification (that's kind of a funny word, isn't it?) will not work. Restoring confidence in the authorities managing this game will require drastic action. Therefore, I request that CCP divulge the names of all characters on the Tranquility server that are played by CCP employees. I request that players who want to manage RP arcs escrow their player accounts for the duration of their involvement in official CCP-sanctioned roleplay. I request that CCP employees refrain from playing Eve in player-owned corporations. I am appalled at the prospect of having spent how-many-hundreds of dollars only to find that the company in charge of all of this cannot manage its own household well enough to appear clean-handed. And of course, being clean-handed would be nice as well. But I suppose only a public forensic audit of gameplay by CCP employees and their close friends would demonstrate the aforesaid, at this point. ---
Sha4d13	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:29:00 - [1618] Jade- its not suggestive at all. You simply are making that suggestion because it suits an agenda. The point above about a friend in the tax dept is a perfect example. Ive a friend who's a policeman- does that mean i exert undue influence over the dept? Of course not- neither he nor i would contemplate it.
Eudare Meswime	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:31:00 - [1619] TheirPOS was bugged? Not anybody else's? My 30 years programming experience tells me that if one POS is bugged, all pos's are bugged, at least those of same type and size. Unless the BoB POS had special routines or settings.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:31:00 - [1620] Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... No its NOT definate proof... but it is sujestive, and they are only human and humans make mistakes aftereall. It is not anything remotely close to proof. It is hearsay and non-proven accusations. I could make some of those too, but that wouldn't make what I'm was accusing people of doing the truth.... You might want to study a few legal definitions.... and maybe stop being easily led by people with their own agenda.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Tananda Vaakaja	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:31:00 - [1621] I think.. when all is said and done this may be the final blow for me. No this is NOT a whine, rant, crybaby post at all. It is a sad one, I have been in the game since RELEASE, I've created characters, given characters to friends had fun etc. I run TWO accounts.. both paid with real life hard earned money. Now I find that the money I work for during the day is being sent to fund a game that used to be something special. Now apparently turned to a quasi - totalitarian entity. We used to log on to see what was new.. what was exciting... now we log on to see if anyone has managed to expose another allegation of misconduct by CCP. IF this ever gets read by an actual person with decision making ability at CCP (99% chance this thread is a convienent "dumping ground" for ignored posts) ask yourself this.. HOW can it possible be good to ignore a massively damaging situation like this? Especially after the T20 incident? BoB has yet again shown collusion with people that can and DO make changes in game which they should be expressily forbidden to.. and if they DO they need to be fired. BoB needs to be disbanded.. period. They have been caught cheating with the assistance of CCP staff. IF they reform under another name so be it.. but the Entity of BoB and a significant portion of their assets (ALL member corps of BoB) need to be returned to the game and those of us that HAVE NOT cheated, lied, or otherwise ignored the EULA (hello BoB / CCP remember the EULA that wonderful document that is used as a reason for banning in channels etc?) I have spent several thousand dollars over the years in EVE playing in a skewed environment where the odds were stacked against the average player who does not cheat.. THAT IS FRAUD.. taking RL money and misrepresenting a service. How I wish I knew a Lawyer. The shame lies on uncontrolled CCP staffers and BoB leadership for this fiasco. Will they do anything to fix it? From what I've seen the answer will be NO .. unless a large number of players suspend their accounts they will ignore it as per usual. We await ANY official response from CCP.. any at all
Princess Maria	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:31:00 - [1622] My 2 cents: Stop fighting about ingame issues. As I see it the issues presented are all about how CCP handles the players. 1) IF some ingame entity has a hotline to a dev, the dev should handle it in a way that would be equal to every other player. That ISD guy should've been petitioned, not beign hotline-booted. 2) Informing players sucks big time. There was no information about the corp directorate hijack, no info about deleted petitions, no info why the ISD guy got booted and 3) Censored posts (and no info why) that try to solve things in better manner. Even better, players that get too angry are rewarded with bans (I don't know about their length, but a temporary ban should be max without further history). Sure bans are inevitable at certain point. Your credibility is bit weak atm as the actions strongly imply to some sort of coverup. That is also why people go and use other forums to get their cause forward. I truly hope you'll get it sorted and maybe even get better communication out of CCP. GL Arkanor & IA team for solving it. GL BoB, Goons and others ingame.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:32:00 - [1623] Edited by: Poolpy on 26/05/2007 14:32:39 Originally by: Eudare Meswime TheirPOS was bugged? Not anybody else's? My 30 years programming experience tells me that if one POS is bugged, all pos's are bugged, at least those of same type and size. Unless the BoB POS had special routines or settings. There is so much of the "random" (read: bad doc, bad code (?)) factor in eve that you never know if a game mechanic is intended or not... and bug can appear only in one case.
JADE DRAG0NESS Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:33:00 - [1624] Originally by: Sha4d13 Jade- its not suggestive at all. You simply are making that suggestion because it suits an agenda. The point above about a friend in the tax dept is a perfect example. Ive a friend who's a policeman- does that mean i exert undue influence over the dept? Of course not- neither he nor i would contemplate it. Post with your main at least. As for my point you will have to be either simple minded or an alt of someone who is obviously pro BoB. It has been shown there are problems in the honesty of CCp staff or otherwise why did they form a Watchdog department HMMMM. So please no blind support. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Malcom Hash	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:34:00 - [1625] I'm not a BoB! Ban me!
Microsoft Sam Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:35:00 - [1626] it always amazes me whey these threads are propagated by goons
Mordrake MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:35:00 - [1627] So I hope this isn't true, but it is starting to look like the general population of EVE outside BOB and its "Serfs" are realy just a replacement for AI driven NPC's for the Dev and their hand picked closest friends to kill off. The Events team have everything planned out so any BOD and friends who like to RP can go have some fun with that in mind and the story will paralell BOB's slow relentless march through the cosmos, bending the once rebelious peasents into good BOB "Pets". It seems there is only an outcry from us pawns when its discovered an extra little help is given to BOB. Please try to keep these leaks under control CCP so I can maintain my illusion as I am forced slowly into a corner with the other Die hard fighters who refuse to be absorbed into BOB's domain. Thanks ; ] "Arte et Marte"
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:35:00 - [1628] Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Sha4d13 Jade- its not suggestive at all. You simply are making that suggestion because it suits an agenda. The point above about a friend in the tax dept is a perfect example. Ive a friend who's a policeman- does that mean i exert undue influence over the dept? Of course not- neither he nor i would contemplate it. Post with your main at least. As for my point you will have to be either simple minded or an alt of someone who is obviously pro BoB. It has been shown there are problems in the honesty of CCp staff or otherwise why did they form a Watchdog department HMMMM. So please no blind support. Ahh, the good old classical defence against good arguments..... Go for the personal attack!!!!!! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
JADE DRAG0NESS Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:36:00 - [1629] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... No its NOT definate proof... but it is sujestive, and they are only human and humans make mistakes aftereall. It is not anything remotely close to proof. It is hearsay and non-proven accusations. I could make some of those too, but that wouldn't make what I'm was accusing people of doing the truth.... You might want to study a few legal definitions.... and maybe stop being easily led by people with their own agenda.... You really do need to learn to comprehend what yu read a Member of BoB said on This forum that he has friends in CCP and ways to contact them DIRECTLY. That is hardly hearsay and non-proven accusations. My theory is its possable becasue of this to ask a dev for a favour via this direct communication. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
JADE DRAG0NESS Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:37:00 - [1630] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Sha4d13 Jade- its not suggestive at all. You simply are making that suggestion because it suits an agenda. The point above about a friend in the tax dept is a perfect example. Ive a friend who's a policeman- does that mean i exert undue influence over the dept? Of course not- neither he nor i would contemplate it. Post with your main at least. As for my point you will have to be either simple minded or an alt of someone who is obviously pro BoB. It has been shown there are problems in the honesty of CCp staff or otherwise why did they form a Watchdog department HMMMM. So please no blind support. Ahh, the good old classical defence against good arguments..... Go for the personal attack!!!!!! Its hardly persoanll as its not your main is it. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Sha4d13	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:37:00 - [1631] Edited by: Sha4d13 on 26/05/2007 14:37:27 That is nonsense Jade. Im a lawyer in real life- and therefore am pretty good at assessing evidence, and pretty appalled when I see people leaping to conclusions and accusations without any. No one is denying that people have personal contacts- as many others in this game do (I can think of two - totally unconnected with BOB, straightaway). But that is an utterly different thing to proof or evidence of dishonesty. I am concerned you cannot see that distinction. There is no evidence of any dishonesty on the basis of what is currently int he public domain. Simple as that. There may be dishonesty- and if so I hope that the investigation finds and deals with it. As matters stand however, there is no such evidence- just hearsay and supposition. What is interesting is that goon appear to have waited to compile 3 entirely seperate issues and hit the forums with them at the same time. Why is that? Why is it that people are trying so hard to taint BOB with all 3 elements of this "open letter" when there is only an apparent connection with one?
JADE DRAG0NESS Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:39:00 - [1632] Edited by: JADE DRAG0NESS on 26/05/2007 14:39:44 Originally by: Sha4d13 That is nonsense Jade. Im a lawyer in real life- Proof pls. Anyway im going to stop replying now as this topic is largly pointless to me i just hope CCP get there act togethere as in my opinion EvE is the best MMO around. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Sha4d13	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:39:00 - [1633] Thats ridiculous.
RedClaws Amarr Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:41:00 - [1634] Well IMO (nobody cares but still). The GM was terrible : replying with "no" in local? That just plain asking for people to get angry at him. A good GM would state why he is there and what he's doing. If they would have done this from the start we wouldn't be in the situation where the players are suspiscious of a GM's actions all the time. Secondly : I know Cyvok also had contacts to Devs and GM's very much like this. He talked about them on ASCN TS in the leadership channels. Bob just uses the (very valuable) information better. Theres probebly loads more famous eve players that have close contacts with the devs and ofthen I believe that the gm's and dev's might not know the value of the information they are giving out. If one of the devs hadn't mention to cyvok that they were planning to include sentry guns on gates and include constellation sovereignity he probebly never would have put building outposts on such a high priority.
Atari Commodore	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:41:00 - [1635] Regarding contact with "friends" by MSN. Of course there is nothing wrong with CCP employees being in contact with members of the playerbase. The fact that CCP employees deign to mix with the plebeians is one of the thing I like about this game. However, there are boundaries. I have worked in customer support (banking and mobile telephone companies) and the policy there was always that if you knew someone even as a passing acquaintance you were not permitted to access anything regarding their account. Discussing problems with the service is of course commendable; everyone wants the game to work more smoothly, but a GM or Dev should never become directly involved with a petition or any other situation pertaining to a person they know personally. It isn't enough to be free of corruption (and frankly from the evidence you aren't), you must also appear to be free of corruption.
Boliknar The Shadow Order Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:41:00 - [1636] Edited by: Boliknar on 26/05/2007 14:40:45 Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Of course your more interested in what affects you more than you are about something that has the potential to yet again ruin the game. Typical short sighted self serving BOB as usual.
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:41:00 - [1637] Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 26/05/2007 14:40:41 On the plus side, *58 pages in less than* 24 hours!!** Edit: i stand corrected, 61! Khaldari
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:42:00 - [1638] Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Kerfira My stuff.. You really do need to learn to comprehend what yu read a Member of BoB said on This forum that he has friends in CCP and ways to contact them DIRECTLY. That is hardly hearsay and non-proven accusations. My theory is its possable becasue of this to ask a dev for a favour via this direct communication. Wow, so having friends and being able to contact them is wrong??? So CCP people have friends outside CCP, and actually TALK (heavens forbid!) to them??? And some of them play EVE!!!!! Aarg, run for the hills! I see no problem in that. In fact, I'd find it pretty damn odd if tings were any different.... However, no PROOF (lookup the definition of this word if it is still so hard for you to comprehend), has been presented in these 60 pages, only weak accusations and slander... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Sc0rpion Minmatar MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:42:00 - [1639] Hey, I've been around nearly as long as Dianabolic, when do I get my MSN contact with the devs? You know, this couldn't have come at a better time either. You see, I've had this petition in the queue for a couple of days now. It would certainly make my life easier if I could just bypass it completely. The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously. -Friedrich Nietzsche Killmails are for pooftas.
MuthaTrucka Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:43:00 - [1640] Originally by: Sha4d13 Thats ridiculous, I stayed at a holiday inn last night. There fixed it for you. --------------- Don't Call me a Carebear, I don't really care about much at all.
Vergatario	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:44:00 - [1641] CCP need change employers polices, any CCP employed cant play EVE. The work is solve the problems, not help the friend. every GM of EVE need have a tracker for see all actions. This a game, but now is a real life politics problem, +This can cause legal problems to CCP? Read the law.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:44:00 - [1642] Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Edited by: JADE DRAG0NESS on 26/05/2007 14:39:44 Originally by: Sha4d13 That is nonsense Jade. Im a lawyer in real life- Proof pls. Anyway im going to stop replying now as this topic is largly pointless to me i just hope CCP get there act togethere as in my opinion EvE is the best MMO around. Ahhh! the good old classical defence when being proven wrong on the forums!!! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Gridcrash Slacker Strip Mining Operation	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:45:00 - [1643] When you boil everything down, one of the biggest problems CCP faces with these incidents is that there are a number of players who simply will not ever believe anything that CCP says no matter what, but will always believe anything anyone says that "proves" CCP is corrupt. There is no "truth" to be had, because the truth is stupid and mundane, and therefore is not worth believing. It is considerably more entertaining to believe that CCP is constantly lying, constantly cheating, and is doing so intentionally and maliciously. For this reason, the cries for "the truth" and "justice" are completely empty, because no amount of truth or justice will be good for that portion of the player base. This is the magic of mob justice! CCP may well have some issues with the separation of dev/gm accounts and players, but even if it is completely fixed, no one will ever believe it. And this is why all of these incidents are addressed with "damage control," because there is nothing else that CCP can really do to appease anyone. Honestly, the thought that there is intentional, widespread cheating is ridiculous. But it sure is seductive to believe! -Grid
JADE DRAG0NESS Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:45:00 - [1644] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Kerfira My stuff.. You really do need to learn to comprehend what yu read a Member of BoB said on This forum that he has friends in CCP and ways to contact them DIRECTLY. That is hardly hearsay and non-proven accusations. My theory is its possable becasue of this to ask a dev for a favour via this direct communication. Wow, so having friends and being able to contact them is wrong??? So CCP people have friends outside CCP, and actually TALK (heavens forbid!) to them??? And some of them play EVE!!!!! Aarg, run for the hills! I see no problem in that. In fact, I'd find it pretty damn odd if tings were any different.... However, no PROOF (lookup the definition of this word if it is still so hard for you to comprehend), has been presented in these 60 pages, only weak accusations and slander... Once again i say read what i post i never at any point said there was something wrong with having friends in the dev community nor is there anything wrong with taklking to them i just said that as they have a relationship with a dev or 2 its entirely within the realms of reason that sometimes friends will ask friends for help or for news of future changes. I never said it happened i just said it could happen. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
bellator militaris	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:45:00 - [1645] I myself have full faith in CCP managment to get to the roots of this problem, if in fact any. We as players trust CCP in keeping our game fair. Bellator Militaris.
Flicky G the Organ Grinder and Company	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:45:00 - [1646] Firstly - there's nothing wrong with contacting RL firends via MSN - the problem is said friends pulling strings on their behalf without the due process the player base is now forced to endure. Clearly - if, as a player, one can influence the game in this way it is a marked advantage over other players. In plain English this is called cheating. No one's mentioed this: In reference to the ISD incident and the rather odd lack of communication between DS1 and the GM who invaded their corp: Clearly - no one at CCP takes the new internal affairs department seriously - otherwise they would be more careful to at least be seen to be doing the Right Thing. The IA department should be seen as a threat to those bending to rules...... but as is obvious from their latest behaviour - these people do not consider it a threat at all. Obvoiusly - some people need to loose their jobs - THEN perhaps their so called 'friends' in-game will realise it is more than 'just' a game. o/ Flicky
Souvera Corvus Gallente Vaapad Shinobis Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:46:00 - [1647] Apologies if I'm repeating something that someone else has pointed out but I feel the need to voice the concern that CCP's official notice makes no mention of what I see as the far more serious allegations raised by Graelyn. Whatever the truth of the matter at hand, and I admit that I'm more than a little convinced by the tale relayed by Cougar Mathias amongst others, I would say that CCP's taking down of the forums and their deletion of posts detailing or related to, Graelyn's allegations, is evidence of appalling communication skills at best and gives credence to the allegations at worst. In view of the prevailing view of a large portion of the playerbase, which is that BoB are in possession of fairly substantial Dev/GM assitance in the way they play the game, CCP needs to examine the playing rights of their employees. Dev/GM assitance in favour of BoB has been proven in the past and been dealt with in a far from transparent manner. These allegations , which to my mind are far more serious, cannot fail to be viewed with increased fury and dismay. I will make no dramatic quit gesture as of yet as I believe that CCP, emboldened by their glut of subscriptions, couldn't care less, unless the actions of one or two become a torrent of disaffection and they are forced to change the way they police their own product. I will however, be looking very carefully at the way they handle this affair and would expect that they demonstrate that they have learned from previous errors and make serious efforts to regain the trust of their playerbase. We do after all, represent a fairly large section of their income stream. The impression I get however, from their actions regarding this and past events regarding similar allegations, is that they shall demonstrate their complacency by sweeping the details of the events concerned under a mucky rug, announce that all is well and fiddle whilst their playerbase gradually dwindles. This,I would suggest, is fairly bloody serious and needs to be dealt with in a fairly serious manner.
Wanten RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:46:00 - [1648] Why would the internal affairs department deliver a verdict that ccp were infact guilty of misconduct....whats the point a company making bad publicty for itslef? The fact that your internal affairs is on your payrole says many things. Another issue that will slide down the forums and be forgotten about with no real action i think RONA Corporation
Space Hound	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:47:00 - [1649] i am probobly the oldest person playing eve .and having read all these very good comments i feel i should say some thing .its not easy to build a game like eve that so many people enjoy . dont please let your employees spoil it by being like so many people these days obusive of the power you give them thank you very much for very good game :)))))
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:50:00 - [1650] Edited by: eleuthereus on 26/05/2007 14:50:04 Originally by: Kerfira So knowing someone is proof of misconduct, even when no such misconduct has been proven??? Lets see, I have one of my friends working in the tax authorities and have him in my IM..... OMG!!! I must be a tax cheater! Advice: Remove tinfoil hat! Originally by: Sha4d13 Does this mean that everyone who knows a dev or gm, and has contact details, must be dishonest and cheating? What nonsense! Perhaps all devs and gms should be banned from the outside world and locked in an ivory tower somewhere? Or perhaps people should actually work form the assumption that they do their job in a professional manner UNLESS there is something to show otherwise. Are you guys ALTs for BOB? Are you kidding? You must be kidding. Either that, or you haven't been reading the last 60 pages. For anyone who is still confused, or is unable/unwilling to grasp the issue. The problem is NOT, is NOT, is NOT that a bunch of guys in Band of Brothers may have some friends who are devs, or GMs (or ARE devs, GMs, etc.). Mmmkay. Or that anyone in any corp/alliance may have some friends who are devs, GMs, whatever. The problem is it SEEMS (and is getting more apparent as time passes) that these "friends" are crossing the boundary between professional, objectivity and their in-game buddies has been, and is continuing to be crossed. THAT is the problem. And it is a problem that appears to be ongoing and proven by some very odd in-game dev behavior/actions, and statements by various players with knowledge of such inappropriate behavior. So PUH-LEEZE, people, no more "I know cops, does that make me have sway over police departments" or "I know IRS agents in the U.S., does that mean they let me cheat on my taxes" silly arguments. The answers to those questions are obvious and have notihng to do with what is going on here. I like what the WOW ex-employee said in a post a few pages back: "With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired." This is VERY professional and insures a rock-solid level of fairness for everyone. This is how Eve needs to be run -- or else, if devs/GMs and others want to stay their alliances and play with their "buddies," there MUST MUST MUST be such stringent rules/penalties for using their positions to assist their alliances that they will not dare do it. I LOVE EVE. It's a huge part of my life. But, really, who wants to even play a game where you know your working for goals and playing within a system that others can circumvent because a few of their alliance guys are devs or GMs. Orange Species needs to send in a petition and wait for an answer just as long as any of us need to wait, for example. Enough CCP. Stop it. Don't kill a promising future for Eve. Let the universe you created live and everyone in it turn it into what it will naturally become without unfair interferance. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:50:00 - [1651] Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Kerfira My stuff Once again i say read what i post i never at any point said there was something wrong with having friends in the dev community nor is there anything wrong with taklking to them i just said that as they have a relationship with a dev or 2 its entirely within the realms of reason that sometimes friends will ask friends for help or for news of future changes. I never said it happened i just said it could happen. Any person COULD be a cold-blooded psycho murderer too, but is that enough to lock them up for life? According to your way of thinking, it seems to... You seem to not understand the concept of 'proof'. Please read up on it.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:52:00 - [1652] Wow, I went to bed and this thread was at 30 pages, and now its up to 60. Since the T20 "scandal" (lol), the way that CCP has decided to handle the community has struck me as very odd. Perhaps it is a cultural gap between my US views on things and a Euro view, or maybe it is just the corporate culture that exists at CCP. What I am talking about is how far CCP is trying to bend over backwards to make everyone happy. Of course, common sense tells us that this is impossible, but for some reason CCP tries to do it. Then, when they are being transparant, and most likely legitimately trying to find a truth that they will never discover, they have to deal with a concerted attack on their forums by the S-A community (which they should all be perma-banned for), and a 60 page thread filled with baseless and unproven accusations and everyone and their mother threatening to quit the game. On a quick side note, this is what many people (myself included) have been saying about the Goons for a long time. They like to play a game, and then when it doesn't work out for them or they get bored, they try to destroy it. Back on topic. CCP obviously wants to make money on their product. They wouldn't allow anything to so alienate their community that it would potentially ruin their ability to do business. I can not accept anything besides this statement to be true or else we'd be dealing with the dumbest business entity on earth, which CCP is not, believe me. I have a ton of experience in the customer service industry, and I can not believe how far CCP is going to try to answer these allegations. Now, it appears that there is some kind of breakdown with addressing customer concerns, but the level of it is impossible to decipher because the amount of people trying to go outside the bounds of the community to discredit others that play and the GM/Dev teams. Now, in addition to having problems with how an in game issue is being dealt with, people that are complaining are also short-circuiting the methods to deal with the problems, basically creating a downward spiral of issues that prevents the initial issue from being dealt with, and most likely making people lose sight of the original problem completely. Personally, if I was a PR person or a community manager for CCP, I would have handled both the T20 problem and this bit of nonsense completely differently. As I have already said, individuals that made a concerted attack on one of my companies key systems (the forums) would face SEVERE consequences. I would also not make any effort to defend or rationalize my internal processes. There simply is no way that CCP can say ANYTHING that will make people that wish to make noise stop doing so. If there are problems from a customer service / response standpoint those should be addressed, but not in a public way and not in a way that "bows" to the demands of anyone in the community. We are so used to dev/gm/ISD involvement on the fourms that people now seem to think it is their right to demand answers/change via the forums, and unfortunately for CCP they have been more and more willing to do this. The answer is most definately NOT what is happening in this thread, as well as many others. At this point CCP will spend as much time on damage control and dealing with non-issues raised in this thread as they will making our game better and helping the community grow. I can only hope that the community at large will come to understand exactly what is going on, how much of it is truth vs. BS, and will either take a constructive, supportive stance around the game they love; or if they can't they should simply go away. To CCP: look what happened when the Devs at SWG (probably the MMO with the most potential that has been released in the last 10 years) when they tried to acceed to the rediculous demands of the community. Granted, that game had problems of its own, but hopefully you can learn from the mistakes that were made there. See you in space, or not!
Weatherman Gallente Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:52:00 - [1653] To all of you who plan to quit because of this: Can I have your stuff?
Ponticus Amarr White Castel Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:52:00 - [1654] Innocent until proven guilty.....in ALL accounts. Please people, remove the tinfoil hats, they don't suit you at all. It's like with starcraft2, (apologize for bringing this up, but I feel it's situation and this one are relevant and similar) all the SC buffs are complaining that this unit should be nerfed or that unit should be buffed, from watching 1 game play demo video. They haven't even played the game, yet their complaining, and the units were altered anyway for the sake of demonstration. Wait until more information becomes available before you start all this saber rattling, no one has said much except that CCP is investigating accusations made by members of cheating by the devs and GM's. Sheesh sometimes I feel like I am playing a game filled with paranoid "CIA is watching me" guys and "Government is planning world takeover" or "The aliens are coming" people. Sometimes I wish I could dump a bucket of cold water over your heads and welcome you back to reality. ----------- Serving the three basic food groups since 2007 Quote: I got the three basic food groups, BEANS BACON WHISKEY AND LARD!!!
JADE DRAG0NESS Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:53:00 - [1655] Originally by: JIm Calhoun Well, without any official reply from CCP what else is there to do for the community at large to do but to discuss these serious allegations amongst themselves. And the servers suddenly can't handle that load? Right....... Whatever the outcome of some "proper" investigation (done probably by the same ppl that these allegations are leveled at), it has already become painstakingly clear that CCP has not grown along with the size of its subscriber base. The current lack of response and openness has "amateurism" written all over it. CCP - Please, hire some real professionals and get your entire member outreach program reviewed by outsiders or stay stuck in the small company mentality where the current behavior belongs. Just my 2 cents as one of your customers. To be fare this started at 2AM i belive and its a holiday weekend right now. Im sure we will get some feedback later tho. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:53:00 - [1656] Ok, this is one of the very reasons I have stayed out of the 0.0 space PvP. Whether the allegations are true or not CCP, it's so very simple, devs should not be "playing" the game. Ponder this analogy. Devs have the power of Judges. Judges do not, cannot, in mid trial, come down from the bench and start presenting legal and factual arguments for one side or another. It's one of the prices for becoming a judge. You no longer get the excitement of the fray. You do get a different excitement. You get to deliberate amongst each other the larger view. You can even have continued education conferences with each other where you can test out arguments on issues. But your role as a judge is no longer trying to help a "side" "win", or even place yourself in a position where it could be suspected that you are helping a side win. Likewise, Judges are not supposed to have ex parte communications with a litigant or litigant's attorney about a dispute upon which they are being or may be called upon to rule. Sure judges and attorneys can be friends, they can talk about baseball, even very general politics and law, but they cannot talk about the issues or facts of a trial in which they are engaged unless the attorneys for all sides are present. Eve is a situation where there are constant trials, and constant litigants (alliances and the individual pilots) and attorneys (corp CEOs and directors) representing those litigants. Dev's have too much power to be allowed to have, and trusted with, the fun of being in player corporations. It's that simple. They could have their own space to test out ideas. Maybe, with very stringent sa***uards and redundant oversight there might be a way to have paid QA employees in player corps that can discuss issues with devs (would have to make sure that all communications are monitored by many others imo, and really isn't that what the forums for players are for anyway?). Additionally, ex parte communications between players and devs better be about baseball, or maybe even the merits or lack of them with stealth bombers, but not about how some ISD reporter bumped my ship and i want him fired. That issue should go through the established official channels like a petition. This smells very bad CCP, even if the worst did not occur. You have a very serious structural flaw with how you run "testing" of your product. Fix it now by getting devs out of "playing" the game with your customers. (and what is with jovian devs hooking up with player pirate corps in low sec and ganking a "newb" friend of mine?, but I digress). You will end up destroying the very wonderful game you have created if you do not realize that your old QA model can no longer function the way it has been. Time to change, probably has been for a long while.
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:54:00 - [1657] Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Avon Originally by: Beyond Horizon Diana confirmed himself that they do, but you know better ofc! Oh my god the ******ation Talking to someone is not the same as being affiliated with them. Stop trying to twist things in order to score e-points, the level of discussion is poor enough already. Avon, Dianabolic said he was friends with devs, and he said he has their MSN. You do realize that eve is running for 4 years and hence some ppl who started out as players joined staff over the time? Those ppl prolly did not delete their msn (and friends) from the time before they became staff. However they might be decent enough to differenciate between msn m8s and their rl job paying the rent. Afterall if you have a m8 in a bank and you have him on msn you dont get accused of stealing or him cheating either just based on the fact ure on msn together. Ppl need to calm down and see what the facts are. We have some witty chatlogs which prove absolutely nothing. Everyone can say in local whatever he likes. I could claim to be George W. Then we have the case of sharkbait joining a corp. A normal GM action, prolly reacting on some petition to fix something. By ccps own rules their employees dont have to explain anything to uninvolved users. So if someone petitioned a pos stuck only this person would know why sharkbait joined the corp. Lets be real if sharkbait wanted to spy, he could have used the admin tools and be done with it without joining the corp or getting caught. So maybe the masses are just abit exaggerating here. As for the reporter getting sacked, ive a problem with black sheep doing a smearing campaign after they got sacked. We dont know the full story just what the guy tells us. Which is surely not 100% accurate either, especially since he violated some basic reporter rules. If a reporter is asked to leave by an involved party he has to comply. The dude failed to do that and infact did either on purpose or by accident(with lag involved or not) bump a dread, something which can easily influence a fight. A second violation of the reporter rules. That he got sacked rather quickly and without a notification is indeed suspicious but at times petitions get handled quickly at other times not and lets not forget we only have the word of one person on it who might indeed have a bill open with ccp. Last but not least the rigged RP events. Those events are usually rigged in my perception. Afterall they have a clear goal, to drive the storyling forward and they have clear rules about the "npc actors" winning. That the guy in question actually hacked himself into an isd account and spoiled a storyline is nothing to be proud of. The remarks "the amarr must win this one" or something along the line clearly fall in the intention to push the official story forward. You cant characterize the amarr empire as the uberstrong evil of the galaxy if the players lose every event against the minmatar isd-actors. However the outcome of those events is usually quiet "low" compared to the grand scheme of things. 2 bln free isk for an empire alliance without 10/10 complexes wont shift the power and are nothing to cry about if they actually participate well in the event. They also have to spend their online time as profitable as possible. You wont see the majority of ppl participating in events if they are not worth the time and there is no chance for phat loot. Rigged or not.
Adreanna Akira	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:54:00 - [1658] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Tarrick Nobody associated with CCP should be allowed to be active in any part of EvE without that there identity and association with CCP be readily apparent to all the (Fee paying) customers. There would not then be any oppertunity for them to abuse thier position. There is no element of game development that needs to be secret from the customers. come on CCP get it together and stop the rot I fail to see how all this "CCP should not play" stuff has come about from this thread. Sharkbait joined a corp WITH HIS DEV CHARACTER, as part of his job. What on earth does that have to do with CCP playing on TQ? Does sharkbait have a character in the game that would benifit from the information gained by joining a corp for 14 minutes and then leaving? IMO, rules should be in place so this question never even comes up in the first place. So answering your question, it has everything to do with ccp playing on TQ.
JADE DRAG0NESS Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:55:00 - [1659] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Kerfira My stuff Once again i say read what i post i never at any point said there was something wrong with having friends in the dev community nor is there anything wrong with taklking to them i just said that as they have a relationship with a dev or 2 its entirely within the realms of reason that sometimes friends will ask friends for help or for news of future changes. I never said it happened i just said it could happen. Any person COULD be a cold-blooded psycho murderer too, but is that enough to lock them up for life? According to your way of thinking, it seems to... You seem to not understand the concept of 'proof'. Please read up on it.... Considering that you are a BoB alt i have to say your arguments are lacking in strength. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:57:00 - [1660] Edited by: Karlemgne on 26/05/2007 14:57:55 Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Kerfira My stuff.. You really do need to learn to comprehend what yu read a Member of BoB said on This forum that he has friends in CCP and ways to contact them DIRECTLY. That is hardly hearsay and non-proven accusations. My theory is its possable becasue of this to ask a dev for a favour via this direct communication. Wow, so having friends and being able to contact them is wrong??? So CCP people have friends outside CCP, and actually TALK (heavens forbid!) to them??? And some of them play EVE!!!!! Aarg, run for the hills! I see no problem in that. In fact, I'd find it pretty damn odd if tings were any different.... However, no PROOF (lookup the definition of this word if it is still so hard for you to comprehend), has been presented in these 60 pages, only weak accusations and slander... In the grand scheme of things, where there is smoke, there is usually a fire. Developer in-game misconduct has come up almost continuously since I've started playing this game, which says quite a bit. Further, as someone most deftly pointed out, in the past similar issues have come up, to a chorous of denial by members of BoB, just to have CCP admit misconduct actually occured. Now to the meat of your statement, "devs" should be allowed to play EvE with their "friends" in real life. There are a number of problems with this, such as conflict of interest. I am sorry, but I know enough to know that a petition submitted by your "friends" gets preferncial treatment, even if you are making an effort to be impartial. That's why GMs for other games are not allowed to answer tickets (petitions) for a server that their play character is on. The fact that EvE exists as a single server seriouslly complicates the ability of CCP employees to play, and have the air of impartiality. And again, I've said it a million times before, having actually worked for a company that publishes an MMO, I can tell you exactly what would happen were anything like what's happened over the last 12 months happened in other games. First, the develepor/GM character in question would be forced to change servers immediately. If an investigation showed even a hint of wrong doing, the employee in question would be immediately fired, and the guild they belonged to forced to disban. What does this mean for CCP? I don't know, but one thing is for certain, you never read about scandels like this in any other game. Yet it seems every two moths or so, another EvE-O scandel makes the round of industry websites and publications. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Telkanes Serkant Caldari Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:58:00 - [1661] If they need an Impartial Manager to go to Iceland and Join IA Ill relocate! I would have gone to that workstation where mateyboy was inside that QA dept and got him to clear his desk straightaway with a post within 1 hour of this coming to light saying a suspension and investigation had happened/begun. Then taken a statement from the ISD lad who was banned and gone through the server logs. If found guilty the Employee would have been disiplined to the appropriate level and the ISD lad reinstated. But thats how the company I work for runs ! -Telk
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:58:00 - [1662] Originally by: Weatherman This seems like a classic case of "I'm taking my ball and going home" to me. Accusing others of cheating is generally what people who suck at games do. This whole dev conspiracy thing is flimsy at best. And even if the allegations are true, who cares? I don't see how anybody benefited from it. If the employee was actually doing something that he thought was wrong, I'm sure he would have been a lot sneakier about it. I'm comfortable allowing CCP to investigate and monitor their own employees. TBH I think goonswarm is just clutching at straws here. And for some reason, I don't trust that the goons have the best interest of the gaming community at heart here like they claim. That is very interesting, since this whole flap has de javu written all over it for me. T20 anyone? It is not one huge incident, but many many small incidents it seems.
Halkin Locus Solus	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:59:00 - [1663] Originally by: Darnoth El'lyan CCP cheat? Well I NEVER! Seriously, this sort of stuff should never be "covered up." All it does is erode trust and...o wai this is what happens. I've never heard of company killing their own game before by being this stupid. much more a case of goons influencing the game than anything else, its what you do.
Vergatario	Posted - 2007.05.26 14:59:00 - [1664] maybe need stop pay to CCP, But how many ppl is agree to stop pay to CCP, stop pay accounts for 1 month or more, this is a solution is CCP feel this in the Own Wallet. This a Business. The money change everything. that is the point.
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:01:00 - [1665] Originally by: Vantras Edited by: Vantras on 26/05/2007 14:19:47 The game is a cesspool at every level. Devs cheat, CCP lies, blocks threads, deletes, ignores major game issues etc. They act with an extreme level of arrogance and a remarkable lack of understanding of good business sense or public relations. The players follow suit. We have massive logoffski, log in traps, pos bowling, folks spying, stealing, accessing each others forums, causing lag bombs, crashing nodes, doing virtually anything they can to "win".. The game has turned dark and negative from the top down and from the bottom up. I fear for its future-I think we might have a case study of a game that was a wild success that ate itself from within rather then being defeated by competition or an inferior product etc. Total self destruction in progress atm. CCP needs to do a Rudy Guliani here. Clean up your own shop, have full transparency from a dev/gm/corporate perspective. and then CLEAN UP THE GAME! Get rid of ** tactics like logoffski, node crashing, pos bowling...and other griefer-meta gaming bull**. Lets get back to enjoying the game. I think Verone nailed it--give us our eve from 2003/4. Take away all the fancy ships, pos's, titans etc--gladly! for a sense of community, fairness, and wonder that we all shared for so long. Sad but true. CCP the ball is in your court you need to clean house and clean it fast and well. You may survive this with little change, but this has damaged your reputation.. Dont be fooled to think otherwise. Do the right thing, which is ther toughest choice and give your PAYING customers full disclosure about what players ingame are CCP employees, and then Delete them ALL.. People who make the game should never actaully playthe game as part of player controlled corps/guilds its asking for trouble. ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
ITBob	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:01:00 - [1666] Ok, enough of this morbid curiosity for me. Those asteroids aren't going to mine themselves.....come to think of it, the grass isn't going to cut itself either.
Kali Cortez coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:03:00 - [1667] lol somehow its rly disturbing to see what I thought are MEN cryin' like that over something in a computer .. omg ... just quit EVE problem solved flavor
Halkin Locus Solus	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:03:00 - [1668] Originally by: QuantumX Originally by: Vantras Edited by: Vantras on 26/05/2007 14:19:47 The game is a cesspool at every level. Devs cheat, CCP lies, blocks threads, deletes, ignores major game issues etc. They act with an extreme level of arrogance and a remarkable lack of understanding of good business sense or public relations. The players follow suit. We have massive logoffski, log in traps, pos bowling, folks spying, stealing, accessing each others forums, causing lag bombs, crashing nodes, doing virtually anything they can to "win".. The game has turned dark and negative from the top down and from the bottom up. I fear for its future-I think we might have a case study of a game that was a wild success that ate itself from within rather then being defeated by competition or an inferior product etc. Total self destruction in progress atm. CCP needs to do a Rudy Guliani here. Clean up your own shop, have full transparency from a dev/gm/corporate perspective. and then CLEAN UP THE GAME! Get rid of ** tactics like logoffski, node crashing, pos bowling...and other griefer-meta gaming bull**. Lets get back to enjoying the game. I think Verone nailed it--give us our eve from 2003/4. Take away all the fancy ships, pos's, titans etc--gladly! for a sense of community, fairness, and wonder that we all shared for so long. Sad but true. CCP the ball is in your court you need to clean house and clean it fast and well. You may survive this with little change, but this has damaged your reputation.. Dont be fooled to think otherwise. Do the right thing, which is ther toughest choice and give your PAYING customers full disclosure about what players ingame are CCP employees, and then Delete them ALL.. People who make the game should never actaully playthe game as part of player controlled corps/guilds its asking for trouble. you may be correct that the devs etc shouldnt play the game in corps, but the reputation is being 'damaged' by as yet unproven claims. maybe you should step back a minute and see what comes from this, oh wait you cant because your mind is already made up before the full facts are out
Starfinder Firing Squad Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:04:00 - [1669] Why oh why am I not suprised? It would seem CCP is so corrupted with involvement with Bob that to separate themselves and root it out would destroy the company's ability to maintain the game. Hopefully there will soon be a new space based mmorp that is worth playing. Then, we can dump this worthless company called CCP.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:04:00 - [1670] Originally by: eleuthereus The problem is it SEEMS (and is getting more apparent as time passes) that these "friends" are crossing the boundary between professional, objectivity and their in-game buddies has been, and is continuing to be crossed. THAT is the problem. And it is a problem that appears to be ongoing and proven by some very odd in-game dev behavior/actions, and statements by various players with knowledge of such inappropriate behavior. I also advice you to read up on the definition of the word 'proven', and especially on how that definition is different for the definitions of the words 'accused' and 'slandered'. Given who posted the first thread, it must be viewed as potentially biased, and can thus not be considered 'proof' of anything, but only as an possible lead for CCP to investigate. Originally by: eleuthereus So PUH-LEEZE, people, no more "I know cops, does that make me have sway over police departments" or "I know IRS agents in the U.S., does that mean they let me cheat on my taxes" silly arguments. The answers to those questions are obvious and have notihng to do with what is going on here. As far as I see, they're exactly the same since there is no PROOF (again, read up on the word)!!!! CCP will investigate this, and their findings will be publicised and will be the 'PROOF' as far as EVE is concerned. If you do not accept CCP as impartial, tbh I don't know why you play at all. I wouldn't play a game I thought was rigged..... Your alliance has already tainted the case by the way you orchestrated this. Deliberately posting your initial post on a friday evening just before a holiday weekend when you were pretty sure most/all senior CCP people was away was pretty sneaky, and the speed with which you started your spamming afterwards point to a high degree of duplicity (highly indicative of you not really wanting justice, but just wanting a forumstorm to hurt the game). I don't like such underhanded tactics, which is why I've dived deeper into your (lack of) evidence.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:12:00 - [1671] Edited by: Karlemgne on 26/05/2007 15:12:10 Originally by: Weatherman This seems like a classic case of "I'm taking my ball and going home" to me. Accusing others of cheating is generally what people who suck at games do. This whole dev conspiracy thing is flimsy at best. And even if the allegations are true, who cares? I don't see how anybody benefited from it. If the employee was actually doing something that he thought was wrong, I'm sure he would have been a lot sneakier about it. I'm comfortable allowing CCP to investigate and monitor their own employees. TBH I think goonswarm is just clutching at straws here. And for some reason, I don't trust that the goons have the best interest of the gaming community at heart here like they claim. That'd be all well and good, but the funny thing is the last time this happened (T20) people said the same thing. That it was slander, there was no proof, people are just complaining because BoB is so uber, etc, etc, etc. Then there was an official announcement by CCP and low and behold, the aqusations were accurate. Devs really did help out BoB by doing stuff like spawning tech 2 bpos. What was done about it? Nothing. BPOs removed, everyone look elsewhere, nothing further to see here. And now more news about possible developer/CCP misconduct as it relates to employee in-game alliance participation. Weird, isn't it? All I can say is that we only have past experiences with which to judge the events surrounding our day-to-day lives. And judging from past experience, I find it very difficult to just dismiss these alligations as nonsense made up by people who 'suck at eve.' Sadly, because of the history of this game, the burden is on CCP, imo, to prove that there was no misconduct this time. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:13:00 - [1672] So CCP people have friends outside CCP, and actually TALK (heavens forbid!) to them??? And some of them play EVE!!!!! Aargh, run for the hills! Its not that, Kerfira, maybe your eyes are closed or maybe not and it is intentional what you are doing, i am neutral, i am in no alliance but i have some allegations if a GM admit he was in a POS to fix a problem which the CEO and POS owner denied, because the POS worked fine and no petition was filed. After that he filed a petition to ask what was this all about and it was deleted without response? Go on a walk with your german sheppard dog, my eyes are open
Niska Deschain	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:14:00 - [1673] Edited by: Niska Deschain on 26/05/2007 15:13:15 Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Kerfira My stuff You seem to not understand the concept of 'proof'. Please read up on it.... You keep saying "proof" this and "proof" that, but tell us, oh noble law scholar, how is proof established in an EVE court of law? As it stands right now, there are a number of accusations made by players, they have some evidence to back up those accusations, screen shots, corporate logs, and frankly the fact that these issues keep happening. What kind of proof do you need? Oh right, you want CCP to say they've done nothing wrong, without showing anyone anything to prove as such, but their word doesn't seem to be worth much anymore. CCP's response partially addresses only one of the accusations. Unless they show server logs or something, it'll end up being their word against the accusers. The accusers have some evidence rather than just their word, so at this time I'm inclined to believe the accusations rather than CCP. My question to you is, what constitutes proof in your mind?
Weatherman Gallente Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:14:00 - [1674] I was skeptical at first, but now I think some of you guys might be right. There must be tons of devs helping BoB and we don't even know about it, so what point is there to playing the game? I'm sure that goonswarm have the best interest of the gaming community in mind with this whole forum drama event, so we should accept their claims without any real proof and go ahead and condemn CCP and BoB and quit eve. Unfortunatly, I've invested too much time in my character so I won't be quiting. But if any of you do, feel free to contract me all your valuables or send me your isk. I promise that I will use it to fight against evil dev corruption in all its forms.
LLucan Dleaur The Praxis Initiative FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:15:00 - [1675] Frankly, the timing of this whole affair (a weekend AND a long weekend for a significant percentage of the membership) smells too fishy to me. Considering the Goons' love of metagaming lameness, all this smacks of a typical tactic to take advantage of the paranoid immaturity of the forum community and CCP's ability to make things look worse. Everyone needs to STFU, wait for a response once the CCP office can do something about all this (next week), and if you are going to quit, DO SO and leave us in peace.
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:15:00 - [1676] Edited by: eleuthereus on 26/05/2007 15:15:07 Originally by: Wylker On a quick side note, this is what many people (myself included) have been saying about the Goons for a long time. They like to play a game, and then when it doesn't work out for them or they get bored, they try to destroy it. Unecessary and ludicrous. Really, now, was it necessary to take such a foolish swipe at those who simply tried to find a way to point out what seems to be inappropriate behavior on the part of several players/devs? Your above assertion/accusation doesn't even make sense. There are actually very few "goons" as such, since the alliance is made up of all kinds of folks now who joined goons from other corps/alliances. I myself was originally in ASCN (against BOB), and Lotka (with BOB), and now I am in goons (against BOB). So, please, save your broad brush strokes for some other game. Likewise, I would be the first "GOON" to say that if there is indeed cheating going on between BOB and devs/ccp, one cannot and should not blame all BOB members. Various individuals and CCP policies are what need to be dealt with here. Stop contributing meaningless accusations to the thread -- the LAST thing I want is to destroy this game. And I know of no "Goons" who want to destory it either. Ridiculous. Quote: CCP obviously wants to make money on their product. They wouldn't allow anything to so alienate their community that it would potentially ruin their ability to do business. I can not accept anything besides this statement to be true or else we'd be dealing with the dumbest business entity on earth Companies make mistakes all the time. Quote: Now, in addition to having problems with how an in game issue is being dealt with, people that are complaining are also short-circuiting the methods to deal with the problems, basically creating a downward spiral of issues that prevents the initial issue from being dealt with Untrue. When an internal problem is raised to those who fail to deal with it -- like deleting a petition for no reason -- there is no otehr recourse but to take it public. Again, this occurs all the time in business, corps, religious cults, the government (oh goodness, don't get me started on that). Quote: At this point CCP will spend as much time on damage control and dealing with non-issues raised in this thread as they will making our game better and helping the community grow. This actually would have all been avoided if sa***uards had been set up previously to not allow what seems to be inappropriate meddling by devs/GMs with in-game play. (see WOW ex-employee post for Blizzard's policy). Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Kallikor Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:15:00 - [1677] Mob mentality ftl. Will all the whiney emo crybabies who are going to continue to believe CCP are corrupt no matter what happens please just quit now so we can have less lag in Jita kthxbye!
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:16:00 - [1678] Just a thought. You know what I find funny? A year ago we were praising CCP for their ability to communicate with the community and get things done correctly. -- Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:17:00 - [1679] The evidence is everywhere. Why not just come out and admit the game is corrupt. At least then people can decide whether they want to play with the odds stacked against them..... Admiral_Chamrajnagar: ok anyone know an ISD named rekan? Macayle: why? [IC]Raekhan: I'm right here. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you need to leave that system Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you are making an ass of yourself Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and of ccp [IC]Raekhan: ? null [ 2007.03.20 06:28:33 ] Orange Species > do i really have to talk to eris? [ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her [ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition [ 2007.03.20 06:30:59 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20070216181949tv8.png http://graham.elitistjerks.com/bobsigzz3.jpg
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:18:00 - [1680] Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. I bow to your english skills, this is what i wanted to point out in the previous incident with the T2 BPO's and the DEV & ALLIANCE that got away without any actions being taken against the parties. Sadly i was flamed to death by various BOB trolls that were never warned for their inappropriate responses. /Signed To the Devs: please remove the bulk of GM's from TQ, if not all, we don't need them, bugfix on SiSi snip - Image not appropriate for eve-o forums - hutch true amarr tank shields!
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:18:00 - [1681] Edited by: Kerfira on 26/05/2007 15:22:15 Originally by: Niska Deschain My question to you is, what constitutes proof in your mind? Pretty simple. First of all, the truth certainly isn't in any posts on the forum, and most certainly not in posts from possibly biased posters (both sides). I do find the timing of this quite suspicious though... 'Proof' in the EVE world is whatever CCP tells/shows us when they've investigated the issue. They are after all the highest authority in the game. If we don't believe them, we're free to not play the game. I do happen to believe that they will investigate and will report back if any misconduct is found. Anything else would be pretty stupid for a money-earning company. The tinfoil hatters believing otherwise probably needs a big dose of 'Reality Check'.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:19:00 - [1682] The evidence is everywhere. Why not just come out and admit the game is corrupt. At least then people can decide whether they want to play with the odds stacked against them..... Admiral_Chamrajnagar: ok anyone know an ISD named rekan? Macayle: why? [IC]Raekhan: I'm right here. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you need to leave that system Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you are making an ass of yourself Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and of ccp [IC]Raekhan: ? null [ 2007.03.20 06:28:33 ] Orange Species > do i really have to talk to eris? [ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her [ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition [ 2007.03.20 06:30:59 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20070216181949tv8.png Linkage
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:20:00 - [1683] Originally by: Mortania Hmm, even in EVE I don't hold Goonswarm at the bottom. what do you mean even in eve ? do they exist anywhere else ? never heard of them anywhere else to this day so obviously they must suck at everything else ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Welfare State GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:21:00 - [1684] In order to understand BoB posts, try to realize that they've been playing this game for four years and don't understand what it's like to start out as a newbie otherwise. They're playing a completely different game, removed from the rest of the EVE community. They don't understand that people have to wait for petitions, that GMs don't always treat them fairly, or that sometimes CCP can, in fact, ignore you through the normal means of communication. They certainly don't have GMs *****ing about their alliance in Jita local, or think that it's wrong that they can recieve the status of someone else's petition about their account from a GM. Once you realize this, it's easier to understand their posts and their disbelief, bluster and downright hostility towards people who are concerned about the accusations. Certainly, some of them must be grounded in the real EVE game, just like most employees at CCP are innocent of cheating just like, believe it or not, most Goonswarm members actually enjoy the game.
Ironnight Caldari x13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:22:00 - [1685] Originally by: RevJim I like being a Devils Advocate... Ok, from what I gather, an ISD member went to a system where BoB were attacking a PoS, I won't go into 'bowling' issues... the ISD pilot was asked to go away by BoB, he didn't and there were accusations of the ISD member bumping dreads with his polaris friggie. A short time later a GM/Dev removed the ISD member and banned all his accounts (I think I have that correct?) The chatter then was about how BoB used MSN to contact a GM/Dev and get them to remove the ISD pilot. BOOM!! big disscusion and accusations of cheating. Well, look at the same situation from the opposite side (kinda) Goonfleet alliance is taking down a BoB pos, an ISD pilot turns up in system to watch... I suspect that Goonfleet would go appoplectic and scream 'BoB spy!!.... BoB have ISD/GM/Dev help!... cheaters!...' ad nauseam. I am not a fan of BoB, but I am losing respect for Goonfleet. I think they just want to break the game, using whatever means necessary, metagaming, accusations of GM/Dev cheating whatever. This is my main I am not a fan of any of them, but when a ISD is banned within hours of one side in a battle complaining about him, without giving him a chance to give his side of the story, then something is wrong, its a lack of respect towards those that spend their time helping CCP run their game, if this is the way it went down.
Toyal Wiulaz Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:23:00 - [1686] Originally by: Weatherman I was skeptical at first, but now I think some of you guys might be right. There must be tons of devs helping BoB and we don't even know about it, so what point is there to playing the game? I'm sure that goonswarm have the best interest of the gaming community in mind with this whole forum drama event, so we should accept their claims without any real proof and go ahead and condemn CCP and BoB and quit eve. Unfortunatly, I've invested too much time in my character so I won't be quiting. But if any of you do, feel free to contract me all your valuables or send me your isk. I promise that I will use it to fight against evil dev corruption in all its forms. Useless post. Go back to wow kid! If you have nothing to say about the issus, then stfu and get lost baby! We are talking about the future of Eve, we dont care about isk and interweb spaceship fighting. And I'm pretty others members of others alliance feel the same as me. We want a free cheaters game is that too hard to get? ----------------------------------------- I speak QC tabarnak! QC 4tw! :)
Taliac Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:23:00 - [1687] Originally by: Eviloution After reading 62 pages of rubbish I can sum this up and save others the time. Dev doing his job. BoB member joking in local and it being taken seriously. Goons loosing their battle in-game, realising it and trying to take eve with them down the gutter. Seriously Goons I cant wait for your 4k subs to be cancelled EvE will be a better place and will probably start to grow again. Evo out Bob pet?
haulinnass	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:23:00 - [1688] i was so hopeing starcraft 2 would have been a space based mmorpg but nope oh well im sure i cant get ccp to refund my year subscription
Weatherman Gallente Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:23:00 - [1689] Edited by: Weatherman on 26/05/2007 15:22:37 Admiral_Chamrajnagar: Weatherman is the most amazing person ever. Macayle: I agree, he is awesome. [IC]Raekhan: I let him sleep with my wife! Admiral_Chamrajnagar: I'm going to save these chat logs guys Admiral_Chamrajnagar: so that I have documentation and absolute proof Admiral_Chamrajnagar: that weatherman is awesome. [IC]Raekhan: It is now undeniable. The truth is out there.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:24:00 - [1690] Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara The evidence is everywhere. Why not just come out and admit the game is corrupt. At least then people can decide whether they want to play with the odds stacked against them..... Admiral_Chamrajnagar: ok anyone know an ISD named rekan? Macayle: why? [IC]Raekhan: I'm right here. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you need to leave that system Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you are making an ass of yourself Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and of ccp [IC]Raekhan: ? null [ 2007.03.20 06:28:33 ] Orange Species > do i really have to talk to eris? [ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her [ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition [ 2007.03.20 06:30:59 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20070216181949tv8.png http://graham.elitistjerks.com/bobsigzz3.jpg We have fraps earlier in the thread of the goons stating in local that they all pay $9 per month for an unlimited supply of tech1 frigates. They deny it. Is it possible that not everything that you read is actually true? A screenshot of local does not prove what was said is true, just that it was said (assuming it is genuine, but that is not the discussion here). The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Fate Decided	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:31:00 - [1691] I think 9 dollars worth of ISK will buy you enough ISK that you buy like 3000 rifters
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:32:00 - [1692] Originally by: D'Artagnan Taken from the open letter. "Doing so teleports a polaris frig to that players ship...at 1 FOOT distance." 1 foot distance = bumpage, that player was totally in his right to get annoyed with this ISD member The ISD members reply to being asked to leave local having interfered with the combat was no. I am surprised he lasted 1.5 years. A long time ago when i used to be fighting BoB i used to have direct comms access to the GM's (i don't anymore). Guess what people BoB are not the only people that have this access, probably every allaince in the game has it. So, guy (allegedly) bumping a dread because he (allegedly) had no choice is reason enough to lose a job (and he didn't comply with BoB dev "order"), but GMs having "direct comms access" to players is perfectly fine, I guess? Unreal. CCP, could you please let me know where can I apply for direct comms access to GMs, and MSN access to devs? I mean, all players are playing by the same rules, so we should all have link to GMs/devs. Thanks.
Haptic Roach	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:32:00 - [1693] Oh this sucks ass - entire conversations were ripped out of this thread. Why bother opening a thread at all if you are just going to delete the contents? Maybe we should find a neutral forum
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:33:00 - [1694] Originally by: Weatherman Accusing others of cheating is generally what people who suck at games do. This whole dev conspiracy thing is flimsy at best. And even if the allegations are true, who cares? First, devs and bob cheated not for the first time and ccp admitted the cheating. In the t20 incident it was also the same 'no, we didn't do anything. there are no devs doing favours for us. proof or stfu. you only accuse us because you suck blah blah blah'. Strange who those voices suddenly stopped when the cheating was admitted. So don't try to say that bob is all innocent and did never do anything wrong - they did. And since they didn't cooperate in the past they have no credit to be trusted now: they even never said sorry! Well, I guess they aren't sorry about the cheating - only sorry that it was discovered. Second, yes ccp must really do something. If large parts of the playerbase believe that ccp staff and the devs are capable of such cheating then there is something really wrong. And third, you asked who cares? Certainly you don't! And certainly you do not care that people want an equal and fair playground for everyone. But actually most of the people pay for this game. And they expect a certain quality of service and they for sure don't pay their money so that a few selected people can have all the best 'service' (something wrong? just call your buddies at ccp via msn and they help... not to mention spying etc.) but they and the large remaining part can't have this good service.
Ruoska	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:34:00 - [1695] The little-guy reads the Tabuloid... Shocking discovery - developer rights exist in production server(cluster)! (Malloc compares to WoW in his post) Sir Molle is not some Swedish bloke, but in reality, the Pope! (can't google this up anymore, wonder what happened to it ^^) CCP caught with the hand in the cookie jar again - Petition deleted (even if supposely impossible)! (this very thread claims) Mother gasp in horror as disgruntled MMO nerd leaves Eve and starts to date (real) girls! (it's true, so does the rumor have it) BoB developer friends abusing their position for in-game alliance! (from the open letter to CCP) It's colorful reading, alright... And I simply cannot place the above headlines into any kind of order of propability - let alone categorily dismiss or assertain them. Granted, I am not even supposed to be able to.. The Threadnought rolling on is by no means a bad thing, and I wish everyone would see it like I do. It's a by product of civilized and democratic way of handling issues, sometimes referred as open "discussion". Something that I find missing from so many so-called western societies (not pointing fingers, as I have only 10). But I do feel for the forum moderators - they must be developing serious cramps in their mouse hand... In addition to allowing people to express themselves, I also believe an uproar of the player base is a positive because, regardless if misconduct has taken place or not, it shows that customers are sensitive to this side of the game, and instills people involved with a sense of severity, perhaps even making potential future perpetrators decide otherwise. We just need to be listening as well, when the case has been investigated and material indicating one way or the other is represented But for now, I would wish everyone posting would first type it in their notepad, sit back breathe and read it, perhaps editing it before posting.... The little-guy puts the tabuloid down and waits for the newspaper to appear...
Igus	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:34:00 - [1696] Edited by: Igus on 26/05/2007 15:34:52 I know its still in development but the its looking to be a great alternative to eve. Infinity
Dyeadmheet	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:34:00 - [1697] Originally by: Dianabolic The people in BoB are my friends, I trust my friends to play the game, as a game (it's why we rejected Kugs blackmail attempts) - I can't really see myself leaving. Give me a break. I wouldn't even trust my own SELF to play the game fairly if I were a dev! Should I beat myself on the head after work each day so I forget the internal workings of the game before I play it? Just the fact that a situation exists where people can make these kinds of acusations seem plausable is a problem. That situation needs to go away. Is there not one single person in BoB who will come forth and say "yes, having developers in BoB (or anywhere else) creates a conflict of interests and I want no part of it"?
Dr Apple	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:35:00 - [1698] Edited by: Dr Apple on 26/05/2007 15:34:00 for those that are quitting, could you send your stuff my way? I'm one that's still going to try and fight BoB and their, well you know what I'm talking about, and it's going to take a lot of resources to afford capital stuff to do so. thanks in advanced edit: yes I'm an alt
Nina Kharn	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:36:00 - [1699] CCP im asking myself how can you gain back the trust? Have I played 4 years to find heaps of my ingame friends talking about leaving if some major overhauls dont happen (some have already made the decision). Needless to say Im staying open minded as i have invested 4 years of solid gameplay but this whole thing seems to stink. Just incase you missed this CCP thousands are very ****ed off about this it might be an idea listen. A direct line to CCP for some but not all should not be tolarated.
Taliac Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:36:00 - [1700] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 26/05/2007 15:24:15 Originally by: Kerfira 'Proof' in the EVE world is whatever CCP tells/shows us when they've investigated the issue. Really? So what about the last time when they tried to sweep it under the carpet? Or the fact they didn't pick up the T20 incident until 6 Months later when someone else brought it up? Which was why they started their internal affairs unit... They saw something wrong in their procedures and moved to fix it. Eh, not really
Kesc	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:38:00 - [1701] Originally by: Eviloution After reading 62 pages of rubbish I can sum this up and save others the time. Dev doing his job. BoB member joking in local and it being taken seriously. Goons loosing their battle in-game, realising it and trying to take eve with them down the gutter. Seriously Goons I cant wait for your 4k subs to be cancelled EvE will be a better place and will probably start to grow again. Evo out Agreed. I just don't see what the fuss is all about. It seems like a bunch of people who are way too involved in the game desperately trying to find evidense of the the whole world being against them because that is what they believe true. The crap about BoB members talking to MSN is complete drivel. The stuff about corrupt events is legitimate because it has happened before. I am sure CCP is aware and annoyed by security issues over this. The ISD member being banned seems like manufactured drama, based mostly desperate wishes and leaps of conclusion.
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:38:00 - [1702] Avon - in this context it is difficult to believe that there is nothing rotten here. But even if there wasn't - it would be incredibly stupid for any GM to engage in any sort of in-game banter that could be misinterpreted as anything but completely above-board behavior. If nothing else - the GM should be fired for stupidity. This game is pointless without trust in the infrastructure of the game - both with regards to actual game mechanics and design as well as in the people running/monitoring it.
Kallikor Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:38:00 - [1703] There is no corruption. There is no cheating. There is nothing going on that is out of the ordinary. Goons finally just got tired of BoB constantly winning forum pvp and figured out how to steal their thunder. Nothing to see here...move along....
perfeus Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:40:00 - [1704] This whole deal still doesn't sound right. The major scandal in this issue is revolves around "events" being fixed, but all of this is based upon conjecture and hearsay. From reading the supposed "transcripts" it looked like the ISD member was making inappropriate comments in local. I had heard a similar story that happened to ASCN in which the GM or ISD member made inappropriate comments and generally acted in an inappropriate manner that GM/ISD member was fired. Now we have an ISD member who was let go who could be possibly looking to ôtake revengeö on CCP. I just have a hard time believing all this conspiracy theory ôcloak & daggerö crap that I am reading on these forums. I think this is all a power trip by some very disturbed individuals, who have over the last several months been making a concerted effort to disrupt the business operations of CCP. Further I find it disturbing that none of the correct procedures were followed, and that the timing of all of this over a holiday weekend seems a bit off. Rather then contact Arkonos, GoonSwarm decided to flood the forums with thousands of posts filled with nothing more then speculation at this point. If the correct procedures were followed I would probably be more likely to believe more of this story then I actually do. As for sharkbait entering a corporation with his GM account, I fail to see the scandal in that. If he was truly involved in a sinister plot then I am sure there would be plenty of ways in which he could have disrupted that corporation and left little or no trail. I also find it odd that I keep hearing reference from GoonSwarm that DS1 never petitioned a bugged POS, yet DS1 has not (to my knowledge) posted that to these forums themselves. Is this some sort of a plausible deniability effort on part of DS1? This way if CCP come up with definitive proof that DS1 did indeed file a petition on a bugged POS that DS1 can come back and say ôwe never stated that we didnÆt file a petitionö. If DS1 in fact never had a bugged POS and did not file a petition I would challenge them to post that same message here themselves on these forums. Not on a third party forum in which you could not be held responsible if your statements were to be found untrue at a later date. I, like everyone else, anxiously await the results from Arkonos. Though I expect the answers to be very different then conspiracy theories that fill these forums.
Valhan Children of the Dying Sun	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:40:00 - [1705] Tell you what all the people who cry like fools instead of waiting for the facts go play WOW it was made for people like you. You can all level up in a week, get all the best items in a few days and all the gold etc you need in a few hours, it is easy. Most of the crap on this forum post is people to damn lazy to work thier way up screaming every few minutes when they think they can get something on the people who have played and earned what they have. Don't get me wrong I hate BoB, they are smug a'holes but they earned what they have and they built it up from nothing by putting the time in not by cheating. My bets are that most of the people moaning here have brought isk or used a Macros. If you don't like it leave, Valhan
Tagan	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:41:00 - [1706] hiyas all yup im just like most veteran players out here and dont normally post about anything. But yet Again this game gets dragged through the dirt because DEVS and BOB type alliances have relationships which creates a massive miss trust in this online game.. BOB has been well know in the past for the first people to complain about things that dont go there way. So its nothing new to hear that the Devs have had there fingers in the cookie Jar again with everyone in Eve picking up the peices and pointing fingers. IRC originally became one of Bobs pets when ASCN fell, but soon went back to war with them after we relised how much cheating and bad gamemanship they used to win the game, Like haveing Devs in there corp`s, TS cheating and corp spys :( Heres a BOB statement youve all probably heard before in local "we Play to win" which means basically they will go to any lengths to win including cheating, like skittles in a POS which a DEV said was part of the game machanics and didnt mind BOB useing there titan to slam ships out of POS sheilds, just another good example how they "play to win" lol Anyays enough of that, Back to buisness.. IRC are no longer neutral to BOB or any of there associates.. I look forward to blowing more of BOB p in the near future.. And a quick one for Dianabolic, remember when you booted us out of our outpost and said "what proof can we provide to ensure IRC doesnt shoot bob down the Line if you let us get our stuff out of the outpost you stole off us? IRC real answer is: you cheat at everything you get in the eve universe and use all the bad tactics which this game seems to attract, you are the masters of that for sure.. So you will be seeing more IRC very soon :) (IRC Fleet Commander) Krool
Natas Dog Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:41:00 - [1707] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara stuff We have fraps earlier in the thread of the goons stating in local that they all pay $9 per month for an unlimited supply of tech1 frigates. They deny it. Is it possible that not everything that you read is actually true? A screenshot of local does not prove what was said is true, just that it was said (assuming it is genuine, but that is not the discussion here). No, it does not prove that what was said is true; but the fact that the ISD member in question was relieved of his position shortly afterwards is quite telling. _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last... is usually the one the joke was about.
Commander Stringer Caldari InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:41:00 - [1708] Damn I'm glad I've had my head buried in Guild Wars for the last month. Bottom line, unless there's independant investigation of this by non-CCP employees. CCP will distort/hide/bend/cover-up etc etc and we will still be playing in a flawed set of game rules for the playerbase. I like the post earlier by the ex-Blizzard guy. Members of Aurora/ISD have CONSIDERABLE power in-game that does not require a separate version of the game client, just a user/pass like Mr Blizzard said, fundamentally flawed. Only way the playerbase is going to make a point is a mass cancellation of game accounts. 20K+ players online at any given time. take away half that and I think you'll get your message across. ........ 'Blow your own trumpet 'cuz no other fecker is going to do it for you'
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:41:00 - [1709] Nothing to see here......? Except for 63 pages of outrage, and CCP officially acknowledging that impropriety has occured and that they are 'looking into it'......for months...... Bravo Sherlock.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:41:00 - [1710] Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Avon - in this context it is difficult to believe that there is nothing rotten here. But even if there wasn't - it would be incredibly stupid for any GM to engage in any sort of in-game banter that could be misinterpreted as anything but completely above-board behavior. If nothing else - the GM should be fired for stupidity. This game is pointless without trust in the infrastructure of the game - both with regards to actual game mechanics and design as well as in the people running/monitoring it. Sorry, which GM are we talking about here? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
JADE DRAG0NESS Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:42:00 - [1711] Originally by: NereSky By removing BOB the name from the game you maybe able to remove the 'shame' It shouldn't pay to cheat anywhere but in Eve its encouraged sadly. I kind of agree here if BoB was disbanded by CCp it would go a long way to fixing EvE's reputation. Tho i feel Disbanding BoB is perhaps a step too far. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
ns10	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:43:00 - [1712] Originally by: Weatherman To all of you who plan to quit because of this: Can I have your stuff? Man think before you engage brain!
Nina Kharn	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:43:00 - [1713] Could this be the EVE killer ? I hope not im praying CCP suprise us all.
Boogerbuster	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:44:00 - [1714] Originally by: Dianabolic tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you should start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be? That's all we want it to be, regardless of what you think of us or how we or CCP go about it, but instead you go in to "threadnaught" mode. It might be something for you all to consider. Or, you can all continue crying like *****es. Your choice, right? ______________________________________________________ Having a relationship=maybe ok. Asking for special favors=corruption. Having the special friends handle petitions=corruption. Getting free t2 bpo's from "special friends that rigged the lottery=cheating. Need I go on?
Kroolish	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:44:00 - [1715] Whoops used wrong character sorry :) 3yrs nd still a newb :) /me Emotes Group Hug
Nina Kharn	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:50:00 - [1716] Originally by: Jeff Drake CCP knows not enough players are going to leave bcs of this. It's one incident among many, and in a week's time no one will remember it. How sure are you about this? Im not sure at all.
Aramark Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:50:00 - [1717] still waiting for bob\CCP to start up a www.moveon.org website --------------------------------------------------- "Roses are red, Violets are blue, I'm a developer, are you one too?"
Oam Mkoll Caldari Unseen Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:52:00 - [1718] Guys.. this is so out of my league.. If you're really going to quit because of this, send your ISKies and capitals my way. I'd be deligthed to buy myself the missing learning skills and keep enjoying the game :).
DUFFMANX Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:54:00 - [1719] The big question im asking myself here is "What does CCP gain from protecting\helping BOB. Why are BOB so important to them" Originally by: dimensionZ The biggest threat we ever had was xirtam mining plagioclase in aridia ...
Adlewyrchiad Amarr Power Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:55:00 - [1720] I would simply like to ask ccp to reconsider the way they are dealing with the situation, it seems that the reaction is out of proportion to the incident at hand, i hear story's (which are always taken with a pinch of salt) of permanent account bans as a result of this i know of one totally unrelated ban wich is a result of ccp steeping up there measures in light of recent events. I am not here to cause trouble of controversy , but i believe it would do the situation well to try talking to its player base about the situation and try not to worry about people spamming the forums for blood, they are but a vocal minority.
Dyeadmheet	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:55:00 - [1721] Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin Edited by: Vladimir Tinakin on 26/05/2007 05:54:52 The part that disturbs me the most is the "Hi, CCP? Yeah, its <bob member>...we got an ISD guy in local who's not doing what we say....I KNOW! Anyhoo, can you, y'know...great, thanks. Same time on wednesday for that thing?" The premise that long-term players should have a relationship with the developers/GMs as is only natural to happen is, at best, troublesome. Sure, forum familiarity is to be expected, maybe playing a non-eve game together sometimes, but eve-related stuff should remain on a professional level. If for no other reason so that CCP's bugtracking database is accurate or their internal oversight controls are properly maintained. Find a bug? File a ***** bug report and wait for a response like the rest of us. Have a problem with ISD/Aurora/misc player? File a ***** petition and wait for a response like the rest of us. Its not rocket science. Collusion--or the appearance of collusion will RUIN the game worse than titans remaining unchecked. Of course, this is all assuming that the IA division actually has teeth. But that's another problem...easy solution though: transparency and responses that don't sound like they're trying to evade/duck-and-cover the issue. Oh, free tip: having the forum mods delete the initial threads inquiring about the issue issue is like ramming your fist into a hornet's nest. If the claims don't hold water, state that. Even if the claim is eventually found to be baseless, blanket censorship only tends to add credence to the poster, not take it away. And then the snowball runs downhill... My personal jury is still out for the reported issues, but I have to admit that the Goons (and the playerbase as a whole) have more than sufficient reason to be royally aggravated--especially given the T20 incident. I'll wait for the followups, but I'm not sure if the game will see me continue with it if the devs take an Officer Barbrady approach. AMEN And so far all I've read from BoB members is condescending BS that isn't much better than the stuff from the goons and doesn't get to the real problem. Seems like at least one BoB member would understand the real problem, but I haven't seen evidence of it yet.
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:59:00 - [1722] Khorian you *****.....
TDPR	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:00:00 - [1723] Guys, After reading this thread I am appalled. CCP you need player interaction to investigate these allegations, you need to establish an independent body to investigate all allegations against CCP. NOT CCP... I for one will not trust CCP to investigate itself no matter what the situation or the result. J
Darkside007	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:00:00 - [1724] My primary concern is that BoB can have people reprimanded with moments, and banned within hours. BoB admits to having members of the development team on instant messanging lists. So what's to stop BoB from disconnecting opposing players in firefights BoB is losing, or block log-ins during raids, or resetting POS's that leave reinforced? BoB's response is, "Don't like it? Leave. Or get devs to hack the game like we do." Wtf is this? BoB is accused of cheating through the devs, and their response is "We've earned it"? Is this game even worth playing, or no?
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:00:00 - [1725] Do folks in Iceland celebrate American holidays? Should just be another working weekend for the good folks of CCP! I puzzle why the BOB/CCP defenders are so shocked. You have BOB crushing everyone in EVE atm. Clearly the overwhelming force in our universe. You have BOB erasing billions of isk worth of work on a daily basis due to thier prowess AND you also have that same BOB with a proven history of receiving Dev created BPO's, that same BOB with an admitted backchannel directly to Dev's, gm's and CCP employees, that same BOB with MSN account info for DEV's. You are somehow shocked that the player base is recoiling at a cozy and in some cases "illegal" relationship with the developers at the very same time BOB is destroying virtually every entity in space? CCP's actions in the past have forced them to the present situation. Once you are caught cheating, lying, and being dishonest (caught once) you are forever a liar. The burden of proof shifts to the accused rather then to the accuser once you are an admitted and guilty liar/cheat. Thats that way of the world. Fair? who cares--real? you bet.
Leonard Darwin Rosewood Productions	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:02:00 - [1726] Originally by: DUFFMANX The big question im asking myself here is "What does CCP gain from protecting\helping BOB. Why are BOB so important to them" IMO, it's not BoB at all. They are just the ones under current discussion. CCP directly gains nothing, but CCP has already stated that Devs and other staff play in the top alliances in the game (just read the interview last night, will try to find it if you don't believe me). Again, there is likely someone in each of the top alliances in this war that work for CCP. Some, however, just like in real life, might be willing to exploit to get ahead as we know weak moral fiber is not something rare. Having weak moral fiber in EvE is not a problem as the game supports that. The problem comes when those with the weak morals also have the power to alter the game with said power. This problem should not even be a problem - it shouldn't have been allowed to happen in the first place.
Quintus Carnifex	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:03:00 - [1727] Originally by: ApathyKills Imagine how fcked the US stock market would be if the Chairman of the Federal Reserve could invest in the stock market? People who can directly affect (for better or worse), in a LARGE way, systems are restricted from doing so in one way or another. Is this your way of saying that the US stock market is "fcked"? The Chairman of the Federal Reserve is not barred from investing in the stock market, other than in banks, trust companies, or banking institutions (USC 244). Your logic is as flawed as your analogy: it's extremely common to have people who can positively affect something be rewarded for such improvements. It's called aligning of interests, and it's one reason that options, commissions, and profit-sharing are such popular forms of compensation. I think EVE developers, GMs, volunteers, contractors, outside PR and counsel, and the cleaning staff should be rewarded for the success of the game, because I want them to be as motivated as possible to improve it. I think there are unfortunately a number of people in influential positions who either don't know how to do their jobs (cover-up is worse than the crime, don't just delete petitions about suspicious privileged-user activities unanswered, hello) or have personal motivations that outweigh their motivations to improve the game as a whole (T20, etc.). Occam's Razor, as well as my own general optimist leanings, has me believing that we're dealing with ignorance and error rather than conspiracy and malice. I was wrong about the T20 case, though, in the same way, so maybe I just need to learn from my mistakes? Certainly, I think CCP needs to find a better way to deal with complaints and accusations of misconduct, and generally raise the transparency of their operation quite a bit, if they want to operate a game that, by their own admission, they want people to be politically and personally invested in. That you can't even discuss moderator actions and thereby learn passively what behaviour is actually expected, punished, or remedied makes it extremely hard to develop trust in the motivations and capabilities of those who police and operate the game "in the trenches". I understand that it's awkward to have people pointing out mistakes and inconsistencies, but that's the price of scale and having many humans using their judgment in interpreting policies. If you are willing and able to back up your staff when they're right, and help them gracefully recover when they're wrong (free advice: sweeping under the rug is neither graceful nor recovery), then they will be able to do their own jobs better, and the community will be able to adapt to the demonstrated norms. We players will be able to self-police better, help others understand what to expect, and know when we should bring to CCP's attention something that is counter to the health of the game. I like EVE a lot, and have ever since I first played it in 2003. Even when I don't have time to play, I have started to keep my subscriptions active in part because I want to support what I think is excellent and visionary work in MMO operation and development. But right now there's a stink about the place that only CCP can dispel, and I'm very much afraid that they won't take the bold and painful steps required to do so. Mike
LungDung	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:04:00 - [1728] "We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS." Maybe CCP should do away with the petition system. This MSNing seems to get more results. This entire affair is disappointing, but all together unsurprising.
Haptic Fowl	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:05:00 - [1729] Originally by: Jeff Drake Most likely, the only thing that will emerge out of this event is a very long forum thread. That's common PR practice- "containment": Give the standard "We are on it" message and let the angry voices vent in a secure and monitored environment. The problem here is that its not just played out in this forum - the goons are trying to discredit the game by publishing it widely on the net: goons digg EVE down CCP is making it really easy for the goons to scorch the game before quitting like the sore losers they are.
Jim Sharpe	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:10:00 - [1730] Eve has the appearance of being run by CCP for the benefit of a few. CCP show us that is not true.
Pherusa Plumosa Minmatar Freedom for All The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:10:00 - [1731] Edited by: Pherusa Plumosa on 26/05/2007 16:14:31 Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Nina Kharn Could this be the EVE killer ? I hope not im praying CCP suprise us all. I don't think so, why quit over nothing? I still haven't seen anything in here that would legitimate this scale of outrage. It's madness. Poor CCP, its long holiday weekend and they have to deal with this silly affair. If they don't investigate those "silly affairs", players will run away. It is no question of proof & evidence or Bob vs. Goons, it's a simple matter of business. If the "Internal Affairs" team's purpose is to conceal incidents by quietening the ppl who revealed misconducts, they lost their new introduced tool to gain more credibility. I think CCP should make a clean cut, forgive the former misconducts, because the employees could use them to silence their coworkers or hinder them to investigate new incidents. After this absolution, they should introduce new, strict rules about misconducts. If an employee leaks information, fire him, if he preferes players, fire him, if he spawns items, fire him...In a normal company you wouldn't keep an employee who uses the Corperation's trust to missapply money. CCP has to grow up and understand, that Eve is a product, players are their customers and that enmeshment between players and staff always result in a disaster. They have to bid farewell to their own romantic image of a small garage company. In a few hours the gaming sites will be on it. Not the kind of publicity CCP would like to have.
Kukki Gallente ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:12:00 - [1732] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Nina Kharn Could this be the EVE killer ? I hope not im praying CCP suprise us all. I don't think so, why quit over nothing? I still haven't seen anything in here that would legitimate this scale of outrage. It's madness. Poor CCP, its long holiday weekend and they have to deal with this silly affair. Poor CCP, its long holiday weekend and they have to deal with this affair. Im happy that they seemd to sleeped well the weeks and month before we were able to know what happened. Now they woke up and can go fresh to work. Hope you will unban all the people you baned for posting the link of the Open Letter to CCP. It didnt worked out. You can let them come into this game again. Or do you think that Goon has to much player and that you have to help BoB by baning some Goons and their friends? _________________________________________________________________ Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Svaha Norbu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:12:00 - [1733] Edited by: Svaha Norbu on 26/05/2007 16:12:10 Originally by: Kerfira How can you experience a big fleet battle (with lag from the TQ setup) on the test server? How can you experience a functional market on the test server? How can you monitor EXISTING conditions on TQ on the test server? Look at my above post on how your solution is nice in theory, but doesn't work in reality. It's quite simple actually: TQ != SISI You know, I would agree with you, but looking over the notes for the last couple of patches, I have to wonder how much net benefit we actually receive from CCP actively playing the game alongside regular players. If you compare the number of actual bugfixes and improvements in the patchnotes to pretty much any other MMO out there, CCP ends up looking rather pathetic in their commitment to fixing the game. The latest patch is a good example. When I first saw it all I could think was: It took over a month, and this is all?! ...and then the server crashed continuously for 2 days. It leads me to wonder if it would be more productive if CCP spent more time actually writing code and investigating problems rather than pewpewing around with their alliance buddies. In other words, I think you vastly overestimate the value of CCP personally participating in player run alliances. I'll concede that it must have some benefit, but if this thread proves anything, it's that the perceived benefit is vastly outwieghed by the cost.
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:13:00 - [1734] It should be spread around the net...it' will force CCP to clean up their game. IMHO its a healthy thing that gaming magazines and gaming sites are asking the devs in thier interviews about the scandals, about accountability etc. Its just about the ONLY way that CCP is likely to clean up thier game. Virtually every interview ive seen since the BPO scandal has included questions about transparency. ITs got to make CCP nuts..but its also got to make them nervous. Force them to spend some real money and effort cleaning up the cesspool that theyve created. Post it everywhere as far as I am concerend. If the rumors/screenshots/msn chat/logs are ALL false then the truth will prevail.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:14:00 - [1735] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Nina Kharn Could this be the EVE killer ? I hope not im praying CCP suprise us all. I don't think so, why quit over nothing? I still haven't seen anything in here that would legitimate this scale of outrage. It's madness. Poor CCP, its long holiday weekend and they have to deal with this silly affair. Other than the bit where some proof finally appeared of Aurora fixing all the story line events... Something thats been said for years, not only by those who didnt win events, but by people who are/were in ISD. It's a shame that goon chose to put the easily explainable chunk about the dev and the POS at the top of their letter. Either way, CCP will just ignore ignore ignore, then have kieron feed us some lies... again... then just ignore it or try to make those accusing them look bad, again. Either way it will probably go away with nothing more than a public facade of caring (IA department?)
Scavok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:16:00 - [1736] Edited by: Scavok on 26/05/2007 16:14:56 Originally by: Haptic Fowl Originally by: Jeff Drake Most likely, the only thing that will emerge out of this event is a very long forum thread. That's common PR practice- "containment": Give the standard "We are on it" message and let the angry voices vent in a secure and monitored environment. The problem here is that its not just played out in this forum - the goons are trying to discredit the game by publishing it widely on the net: goons digg EVE down CCP is making it really easy for the goons to scorch the game before quitting like the sore losers they are. Yet we also still have a recruitment thread up on somethingawful.com where we bring in dozens of newbies every month. CCP is only discrediting themselves, and we want nothing more than for these problems to be fixed.
Lister ofSMEG	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:16:00 - [1737] Perhaps i was blind to this for to long. But learning today that Eve employees are using GM accounts in the Live player enviroment makes me sick. How dare you corrupt and dirty the playing enviroment with your filthy admin accounts and command lines and blatent disreguard for to paying players enviroment.........makes me sick to the stomach and embarressed that i have recommended this game to people. Given the development enviroment available to them to test ideas, plus other dev enviroments which must exist to test products on, GM should never need to join the live enviroment for anything. There have to be other methods to repair problems that dont require intervention by Admin accounts. If they are found to have, and its a big "IF", done something to benifit one player over another, then, anything short of "ISD/GM" accounts/holders will no longer be able to access the live game enviroment, will be unacceptable for me. 63+ pages in 24hours should tell you that we are not amused at the mere thought that this is taking place. Players will vote with their $$$. If found to be true: The CCP staff member who responded outside normal channels in 40seconds, should be sacked - i dont care who they are. Their actions while speedy and probably correct, were massively inappropriate. How many other players needed Petition help at the same time but have to wait because they dont have the same connections that certain players have.......I hope they pay more per month to have a CCP lacky on call The account that by-passed normal channels should be very closely monitored also. The ISD that responded in local......well what can you say to that....why is this a practice that CCP uses at all. A petition capturing the conversation would have resulted in the same outcome for the ISD member and would have been considerably more transparent to all+ plus would have been the correct way to address this. Bumping a Dread in Seige a smart talking the local......Why is the reporter there anyways......in a way that could impact the live enviroment and it's crap to say "if we knew a way to contact them outside of the game we would too.......". Give me a break. The reason we pay for a game like this is that we expect a certain level of service and professionalism and above all a level playing field. I dont want to hear that anyone has an advantage over another through connections in the company.......A mis placed comment lending knowledge to one player by the staff member, could change the balance in a playing enviroment for 1000's of paying players. You might own the house we play in CCP, but we rent it from you and that means it's ours to play with and live in, not yours. Hanging around the house, Looking over the back fence, letting yourself in when we aren't home, reguardless of whether you interact with anything, instantly taints you and makes you a target for all. Why leave that opening there at all.......
Hauler's Gal Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:16:00 - [1738] Originally by: Pherusa Plumosa Imagine a Football (Soccer) World Cup Final between Italia and France with French referees. That's a loose-loose situation for the referees and the French Team. If they loose, they loose. If they win, they will be accused of cheating. Or a judge who has to adjudge a close friend of him, wouldn't he tend to be more forbearing with his penalty? Yes, he would surely. Pherusa Excellent example which proves the point - THEY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO. Like football, judges, doctors, they are not allowed to have a family as patients, sit judgement on friends and cannot referee their own country in an international sport of any kind. Once personal ties are made with a player, no matter how unintentional they are, there will always be a sense of obligation to do well by your friends.
Dr Noc	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:16:00 - [1739] Why acting as a GM, when a CEO petition asking this GM why and what he was doing in his corp, this Ceo didn t get any reply and got his petition just deleted with No Answer. If the GM was acting to fix a known bug, no reason to be quite and just delete petition... CCP you asking help. Use your brain. About the T20, the MSN stuff, and GM are not Robots, well, a friend talk, and gives advise to his friends... No relationships with dev or GM is the key. 1 server test full runing with Dev playing only on it is the key. No way you could get any trust back but asking your Employees delete their MSN and char and get back to ANON, for the best of the game, and for the trust u just lost withing the last 6 months... I am waiting not your Answer, but some ACTING. Something else than BAN, /ignore, /delete.. GL ccp, but one more incident like that one, and you could say Gbye to you financial Partner, and bye to your future... PS: Sad, one of the best MMO with Everquest i ever played (EQ for about 8 years, and GM are not allowed to friendrelationship or get banned...)
Haptic Fowl	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:18:00 - [1740] How will the truth prevail - its a smear campaign based on rumor and hearsay. I am not saying there is nothing wrong here - i have issues with the way the goons are doing this - it will be bad for the game (which i like) in the long run.
Weatherman Gallente Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:18:00 - [1741] Originally by: Haptic Fowl Originally by: Jeff Drake Most likely, the only thing that will emerge out of this event is a very long forum thread. That's common PR practice- "containment": Give the standard "We are on it" message and let the angry voices vent in a secure and monitored environment. The problem here is that its not just played out in this forum - the goons are trying to discredit the game by publishing it widely on the net: goons digg EVE down CCP is making it really easy for the goons to scorch the game before quitting like the sore losers they are. Exactly, which is why I'm baffled that anyone is taking this seriously. The goons can't win and so they're trying to ruin the game for everyone. Even if this does trigger a round of people quitting, at least it'll clear out the chaff imo. All the conspiracy theory nuts and the sore losers. It sucks for CCP because they lose revenue, but it might actually be good for the community.
Vergatario	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:18:00 - [1742] BOB Planig take CCP Headquearters in Next Fanfest, with this can change the name of game to BOB Online, and you can continue pay 15$ at month and 100m of Isk more/moth. All space move to BOB hands. All South and North Coalition members will be banned.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:20:00 - [1743] Originally by: Haptic Fowl Originally by: Jeff Drake Most likely, the only thing that will emerge out of this event is a very long forum thread. That's common PR practice- "containment": Give the standard "We are on it" message and let the angry voices vent in a secure and monitored environment. The problem here is that its not just played out in this forum - the goons are trying to discredit the game by publishing it widely on the net: goons digg EVE down CCP is making it really easy for the goons to scorch the game before quitting like the sore losers they are. I havent seen goon losing just yet... What happened last time? Kieron denied it... T20 was proven guilty... CCP admitted it WAS true and it eventually came out that they had known about it for months and left the cheated BPOs and dev in place in game. What did they do next... head in the sand until everything cools down, same thing they will do this time, the goons have found a something that CCP cant ignore, they will actually have to act for a change. Good for the goons, I dont really care if they take eve to hell with them in a ball of fire anymore... the corruption needs to end.
Chevy Prefect	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:22:00 - [1744] Why is anyone at all surprised or shocked? The BoB incest with CCP became public with the BPO issue and continues to fortify. Bottom line is BoB cheats and CCP is a servant of BoB not of the general customer population
Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:22:00 - [1745] As a customer, I want full disclosure. I want to know what the rules of this game are. No secret rules that only the devs and their anointed player buddies know. If CCP's vision of Eve involves manipulating the playerbase by putting devs in player corps, then just admit it. Let us know which corps have that "special advantage". I want to know what I'm up against and I want to know what I'm paying for. Or better yet...just let normal players play the game without interference. I fail to see how it's necessary for the devs to manipulate alliances other than for their own damned amusement. If you absolutely must have devs in the game, then make a dev-only corp or alliance. Play the Jovians or something. Sure, the players of every mmo are always upset with the developers about something. Every game has bugs and shortcomings and players who cheat. But Eve is the only game I know of where you can't trust the devs as players. Something is seriously wrong here. It's like a gang of coke dealers who can't stop snorting their own product, and that never ends well.
Alty MacAlterson Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:24:00 - [1746] Be a man, post with your main!
Hauler's Gal Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:24:00 - [1747] Originally by: Svaha Norbu You know, I would agree with you, but looking over the notes for the last couple of patches, I have to wonder how much net benefit we actually receive from CCP actively playing the game alongside regular players. ... It leads me to wonder if it would be more productive if CCP spent more time actually writing code and investigating problems rather than pewpewing around with their alliance buddies. Good point - especially when the GM's turn round and say that there is no such thing as lag in Jita or Saila. They need to play the game on every level if they are going to play, not just sit with their BoD mates in 0.0. No lag in Jita? LMFAO - it's like saying there isn't any atmosphere on this damn planet... I undocked one evening, went to bed, woke up the next day and it was still a black screen. Eight fricking hours. But of course that's not lag... my ar*e.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:25:00 - [1748] Originally by: Haptic Fowl Originally by: Jeff Drake Most likely, the only thing that will emerge out of this event is a very long forum thread. That's common PR practice- "containment": Give the standard "We are on it" message and let the angry voices vent in a secure and monitored environment. The problem here is that its not just played out in this forum - the goons are trying to discredit the game by publishing it widely on the net: goons digg EVE down CCP is making it really easy for the goons to scorch the game before quitting like the sore losers they are. Well, about Goons publishing it outside of Eve, there is a good explanation. There are different aspects of customer 'management' that come into play here, one is churn rate. Churn rate is about the rate at which people leave the game. Some CCP guy once said EVE retained subscribers for an average of something like 7 or 9 months. That means that with what, 170k subscribers, they would lose about 20.000 a month and get 20.000 new ones. Anyway, the exact number is not important. Now when you want to get someone's attention, you have to make sure they notice you. A guy sitting at his computer in England screaming at a Dev in Iceland won't get noticed. He will get noticed a bit more when he posts on the Eve internal forums. But there, he is only potentially affecting people who are already subscribed/hooked to the game. For him to make the biggest impact, and thus the biggest chance of actually getting noticed by CCP, its smartest to go outside of the forums. Potential new subscribers, not hooked on the game, potentially interested. If you can reach those and turn them off from the game CCP will feel the biggest impact. Its just how the system works. And it works the same with every MMO out there. SOE never reacted to criticism seriously when it was on their own forum, they only started to react when it spilled out of their private forums onto Gamezone and other sites. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Malena VXXI Amarr The Templiers	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:26:00 - [1749] Hu ? again Miner \| Trader
Aramark Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:26:00 - [1750] so we can use BoD now.. --------------------------------------------------- "Roses are red, Violets are blue, I'm a developer, are you one too?"
Doc Imp	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:27:00 - [1751] Subscription successfully canceled
Camilo Cienfuegos Caldari EP0CH	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:29:00 - [1752] Sorry, this whole thing doesn't wash. I'll eat my hat if it comes out as misconduct, but as far as I can see it's another "omg bob hax0r whine whine I'm quitting" moment. Had anyone but goonswarm come forward with this, I might be able to credit it with some validity, but the goons have shown themselves to be distrusworthy in-game, so why should we assume them to be trustworthy outwith the game? The way I see it, the war ain't going so well for the goons anymore - instead of admitting defeat like any honourable soldier would, they're crying wolf and bailing out. As I say, I'm far from infallable - but indignation is often used by the disingenuous to cover their tracks whilst they escape, and the prejudice agsainst bob is widely held and an easy tool to use as a means to this end. Au revoir!
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:29:00 - [1753] Is it conceivable that someone would actually try to join CCP in order to favour his alter ego in-game? Well - I suppose there sin't a hell of a lot of other things to do in Iceland......
Mineral Xchange	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:30:00 - [1754] Quote: ... We humbly ask our players to trust that the internal monitoring of our employees is being taken seriously. The current allegations will be fully investigated and we will publish our findings at the first opportunity. Please understand that this may not be today or tomorrow, but this issue will not be ignored. The forums will be brought up again as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience and understanding. Please use this forum thread if you wish to discuss this matter. Arkanon CCP Internal Affairs Oh ... one thing that was omitted - if you post a link to the website describing the allegations to allow other paying subscribers to form their own opinion, you will get banned from posting on the forums. Way to go, CCP. This type of policy makes me even more trusting of you. Talk about transparency
Penthus Mal devastation mining inc Hell Hounds	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:31:00 - [1755] Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. This hits the nail on the head exactly
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:31:00 - [1756] Quote: He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, which was bugged. How come this sounds really funny? -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
Arenis Xemdal Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:35:00 - [1757] When you're all done mewling, I guess we'll be seeing you in NOL next week, right?
Pherusa Plumosa Minmatar Freedom for All The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:36:00 - [1758] Originally by: Calvin Firenze /me decides to speak up and not joke around...or at least try not to joke around CCP employees have been tied up in playing unfairly before (note I say "employees" and not CCP as a corporate entity), such as the whole T20 thing. However, this is NO REASON WHATSOEVER to assume they would purposefully get rid of their player base and future players by spying and relaying intel to a player owned corp/alliance. (unless of course its CCP's way of reducing lag ) Anyways, I am still blissfully neutral on the subject. I'll admit that there are some rather fishy elements in all the allegations that have been put forth, but the foul play in this, if any, would be on the part of an employee of CCP, not CCP itself. And all you people that say you're quitting because of the actions of one man, with absolutely no proof of wrongdoing, I have two words for you. Good Riddance Oh, and no, I don't want your stuff. I have too much of my own, thanks. (what the hell am I gonna do with 63 125mm Gatling Autocannon II's) Maybe this is the real "Need for Speed" Campaign. Scare off the player base = lagfree capital blobbs.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:37:00 - [1759] Originally by: Vantras Post it everywhere as far as I am concerend. If the rumors/screenshots/msn chat/logs are ALL false then the truth will prevail. But unfortunately then damage will already have been done. That is exactly why it is the WRONG thing to do. There was a case recently in the UK where a man had been accused of a rather unpleasant crime. The press decided to push to make information public, revealing the evidence of their investigations, fighting between each other to prove that their newspaper was the genuine crusader for justice! Eventually it turned out that the accused man was innocent. Unfortunately, the proof which showed he was innocent was not found until he had been murdered in a revenge killing for a crime he had not been involved in - before the case went to trial. Still, the press got their sales, and the public felt as if justice had been done - until they found out it hadn't. Another high profile case recently saw a group of kids jailed for killing a man they thought was a child molester. They were wrong too. Lifes ruined or ended because people thought that they knew best. The lynch mob mentality is not a sign of a civilised society, and it is something to be frowned upon. It is not cool, or clever, or helpful to think that just because you don't like the system you have the right to take the law in to your own hands. The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out. But that is not the goal here, is it? This isn't about justice and fairness, is it? It is about serving a broader agenda, and that is what is so frustrating. Even my kids have grown out of the "play my way or I'll take my ball back" mentality. This thread is an example of people stoming their feet because they aren't getting their own way. It is akin to blackmailing CCP. "Do what we say or we'll ruin your image, blackening your name throughout the entire internet." Cheating is wrong, but when revealed it should be dealt with in the correct manner. There really is no excuse for the "threadnaught" approach. If anything it only serves to polarise the community, rather than bringing them together in the interests of honesty and fair-play. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Natas Dog Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:38:00 - [1760] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal When you're all done mewling, I guess we'll be seeing you in NOL next week, right? If I try hard enough to put a political spin on this, I might be able to deflect everyone away from the real problem everyone wants to see addressed, right? _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last... is usually the one the joke was about.
xDaKewlGuyx	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:38:00 - [1761] Anyone remember Cyvok's complaints about losing his titan due to suddenly crashing and not being able to disconnect? Given these recent developments, mabye he wasn't lying after all, hmm...
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:39:00 - [1762] Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Quoted for emphasis.
Calvin Firenze Minmatar Subach-Tech FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:40:00 - [1763] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Vantras Post it everywhere as far as I am concerend. If the rumors/screenshots/msn chat/logs are ALL false then the truth will prevail. But unfortunately then damage will already have been done. That is exactly why it is the WRONG thing to do. There was a case recently in the UK where a man had been accused of a rather unpleasant crime. The press decided to push to make information public, revealing the evidence of their investigations, fighting between each other to prove that their newspaper was the genuine crusader for justice! Eventually it turned out that the accused man was innocent. Unfortunately, the proof which showed he was innocent was not found until he had been murdered in a revenge killing for a crime he had not been involved in - before the case went to trial. Still, the press got their sales, and the public felt as if justice had been done - until they found out it hadn't. Another high profile case recently saw a group of kids jailed for killing a man they thought was a child molester. They were wrong too. Lifes ruined or ended because people thought that they knew best. The lynch mob mentality is not a sign of a civilised society, and it is something to be frowned upon. It is not cool, or clever, or helpful to think that just because you don't like the system you have the right to take the law in to your own hands. The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out. But that is not the goal here, is it? This isn't about justice and fairness, is it? It is about serving a broader agenda, and that is what is so frustrating. Even my kids have grown out of the "play my way or I'll take my ball back" mentality. This thread is an example of people stoming their feet because they aren't getting their own way. It is akin to blackmailing CCP. "Do what we say or we'll ruin your image, blackening your name throughout the entire internet." Cheating is wrong, but when revealed it should be dealt with in the correct manner. There really is no excuse for the "threadnaught" approach. If anything it only serves to polarise the community, rather than bringing them together in the interests of honesty and fair-play. /signed very good points this is not a signature, whatever anyone has told you is false. look away
Newbie99	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:49:00 - [1764] It is sort of ironic that I have to read outside websites to find out about the developer corruption in Eve. Then here I am limited to a single thread which will be conveniently disposed of in a few days by the forum moderators. The last time I asked to see the code of conduct by which the developers play the game my post was locked and deleted. Now we have more of the same stuff involving developers assigning themselves director positions and assigning themselves access to POSs. Didn't you guys learn anything from the last developer incident! Of course I realized you took no action on it, so I assume the political manipulations of the developers in Bob is just game on as usual. I really am totally disgusted by the developer corruption in this game. WHY ARE DEVELOPERS IN DIRECTOR POSITIONS IN THE ALLIANCES. We already learnt from the last incident that they have no compulsion in breaking the game rules for their friends. Now I have to listen to a b*******t story about a bugged pos. Please, last time I hoped for the best and it turned out for the worst. This time you have no credibility with me. What was a developer doing assigning himself and director role and giving himself access to a POS, breaking the game rules in not requesting those roles from the corporation he was in. I guess he must be really scared of consequences from the "monitoring team", because it is probably just public relations fiction.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:49:00 - [1765] It really doesn't matter what anyone thinks about how it should of been handled. This is how we are handling it and will continue to do so.
Joskken Inx PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:49:00 - [1766] Almost a couple years I've been here, after leaving one dying game (AO) where I never, ever saw this conflict of interest of developer/GMs and players. I didn't even come into Alliance politics until last year. And even then, somethings just didn't jive. EVE brings a smarter player to the table, one who plays not to "win" but for enjoyment of the details. And those details now speak to the effect that this game, too, is dying. From self-inflicted wounds nonetheless. I can put up with the endless BoB sycophantic rabble. I've been a member of SA.com for 7 years, so internet toughguys aren't new to me. The prattle of how they go on and on, that's ok-that's what internet toughguys do. What I'm just not going to do is pay for someone(s) to keep typing /GODMODE on against me and anyone who isn't on their friend list. Not going to pay for someone to use exploits...ahem, "undocumented features" on a regular basis and feign their concern. And I'm not going to pay to play my game, fair and square and by the motherfugging rules while you've got this massive sandbox-is-all-ours attitude and playstyle by BoB, whomever. I'm not done playing because I won't win, but because I see it now-0.0 gets pushed into BoB's pocket, coincidently CCP changes sovereignty and POS warfare making it impossible to get back. Eve will be dead by Christmas 2008. Hope it was worth it CCP. And please, BoB, keep up the sycophantic back-clapping Always a good read.
Lissaee	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:51:00 - [1767] something from the Eve online TERMS OF SERVICE: 22.You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website. Now for manny things i have read here some people have provided others with means to gain advantage over other players and some have the "Power" to do this as they want whenever they want to whoever they want.i dont know but that kinda takes the fun out of everything. And well solving the issue will not be right away as you need to look into things?! come on do you really think we are a bunch of idiots who dont know whats going on or something? We are youre customers ffs start treating us as sutch we pay the bills. Clear it up we as customers DEMAND it
Fiendish Lo Eve University	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:51:00 - [1768] Originally by: "Avon" Cheating is wrong, but when revealed it should be dealt with in the correct manner. Your post is generally dead-on, and unlike most of your compatriots here (Orange Species, Dianabolic, that other Evolution guy - everybody except you and Blacklight, who's a really smart guy), you're actually addressing the problem rather than issuing schoolyard taunts about who's winning a spaceship war. But given the widely believed allegations of petition ticket dumping, and other allegations raised on a certain website I must not name, do you believe that CCP has handled this situation, itself, in the correct manner?
little blossom	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:51:00 - [1769] Originally by: Pepperami Originally by: Avon Originally by: Vantras Post it everywhere as far as I am concerend. If the rumors/screenshots/msn chat/logs are ALL false then the truth will prevail. But unfortunately then damage will already have been done. That is exactly why it is the WRONG thing to do. There was a case recently in the UK where a man had been accused of a rather unpleasant crime. The press decided to push to make information public, revealing the evidence of their investigations, fighting between each other to prove that their newspaper was the genuine crusader for justice! Eventually it turned out that the accused man was innocent. Unfortunately, the proof which showed he was innocent was not found until he had been murdered in a revenge killing for a crime he had not been involved in - before the case went to trial. Still, the press got their sales, and the public felt as if justice had been done - until they found out it hadn't. Another high profile case recently saw a group of kids jailed for killing a man they thought was a child molester. They were wrong too. Lifes ruined or ended because people thought that they knew best. The lynch mob mentality is not a sign of a civilised society, and it is something to be frowned upon. It is not cool, or clever, or helpful to think that just because you don't like the system you have the right to take the law in to your own hands. The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out. But that is not the goal here, is it? This isn't about justice and fairness, is it? It is about serving a broader agenda, and that is what is so frustrating. Even my kids have grown out of the "play my way or I'll take my ball back" mentality. This thread is an example of people stoming their feet because they aren't getting their own way. It is akin to blackmailing CCP. "Do what we say or we'll ruin your image, blackening your name throughout the entire internet." Cheating is wrong, but when revealed it should be dealt with in the correct manner. There really is no excuse for the "threadnaught" approach. If anything it only serves to polarise the community, rather than bringing them together in the interests of honesty and fair-play. Very good post, basically this one and the one from the guy claiming to be ex-blizzard has been the only two insightful posts in this epic thread of alts, out of context admissions and nerd rage. seconded.. Goons- 'Our thread spam will blot out the sun!' Rest of eve - 'Then we will post in the shade..'
Taliac Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:51:00 - [1770] Edited by: Taliac on 26/05/2007 16:50:18 Originally by: Avon This isn't about justice and fairness, is it? I think it is. But the problem is many people don't trust ccp anymore
Reithan Caldari Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:53:00 - [1771] Originally by: Leingod Originally by: Iwone Originally by: Noogy Originally by: Garia666 Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post. /signed i fully agree This. Such a good product, such a bad management. Not the first time, not the last :( Truly an EXCELENT post. Read this CCP, and learn from it. If you don't, EVE will go down in flames. /signed Wow, I think says it all
BuIIseye Amarr Pax Amarria Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:53:00 - [1772] Originally by: DUFFMANX The big question im asking myself here is "What does CCP gain from protecting\helping BOB. Why are BOB so important to them" From my point of view, they aren't, some Goonswarm members are trying to make it look like it and by the looks of this thread, they are achiving that. Threatening to quit the game, making it all look dramatic ... I normaly laugh at such paranoia/obsesion/propaganda that this thread generates but seeing other people saying they will leave makes me sad. I mean, they wanted a pitchfork and torch revolt against BoB, they got it. When BoB surprisingly repelled it and are now sitting at their doorstep, they have nothing better to do than leave the game for something else, even if temporarely and they spread crap and decay to ruin the game while their at it ... It sux
Nina Kharn	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:53:00 - [1773] Originally by: Calvin Firenze Oh, and no, I don't want your stuff. I have too much of my own, thanks. (what the hell am I gonna do with 63 125mm Gatling Autocannon II's) . 125 mm rule! miny 4TW! Sorry couldnt help it
Camilo Cienfuegos Caldari EP0CH	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:53:00 - [1774] Quote: I want to know if MSN is an authorized 3rd party programme in relation to the game. If not I want whomever reported the ISD incident to CCP banned as they have broken the rules of player conduct. :) Such statements are disclaimers, used in the same way that laws like "Breach of the Peace" are in the UK - as a preventative measure to ensure that they do have the power to eject individuals lawfully from the game should it come to light that they are using software that gives them an ADVANTAGE within the game. If there is misconduct through MSN, then it's not the software that causes this but the individuals relationship. If you are to follow your post to it's conclusion, the use of our web browsers to access this site infringes upon the disclaimer you mentioned, as would the use of ANY application on your machine that was not developed by CCP. Now, I know this statement was made in good humour, but there's enough people misinterpreting things in this incident that even this requires clarification.
Svaha Norbu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:55:00 - [1775] Originally by: Hauler's Gal Originally by: Svaha Norbu You know, I would agree with you, but looking over the notes for the last couple of patches, I have to wonder how much net benefit we actually receive from CCP actively playing the game alongside regular players. ... It leads me to wonder if it would be more productive if CCP spent more time actually writing code and investigating problems rather than pewpewing around with their alliance buddies. Good point - especially when the GM's turn round and say that there is no such thing as lag in Jita or Saila. They need to play the game on every level if they are going to play, not just sit with their BoD mates in 0.0. No lag in Jita? LMFAO - it's like saying there isn't any atmosphere on this damn planet... I undocked one evening, went to bed, woke up the next day and it was still a black screen. Eight fricking hours. But of course that's not lag... my ar*e. Yeah. If the whole premise behind ccp playing alongside alliances is to identify and squash bugs, then they are failing miserably by any reasonable measure. I haven't been in EvE for as long as many people, (5-6 months) but there have been glaring, obvious, frequently identified, and totally reproducible bugs that have persisted through the entire time I have played. Camera reset bug anyone? How about drones? The lag infested buggy fleet system? rats spawning inside asteroids and shooting off the grid at 6km/s? Shooting through PoS shields and bumping through shields with supercaps is now a "feature" and not a bug, you say? It reeks of a total lack of effort. I would be more convinced that the we were getting something useful out of CCP playing in alliances if there was actually some sort of tangible benefit in bug fixes, but sadly this does not seem to be the case. I can look at the last few patches and they look a positively anemic effort in comparison to the legions of easily reproduced bugs that persist for months or even years in this game.
Morning Maniac Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:55:00 - [1776] I hope that CCP will address each and every issue that has been raised and also implements a policy and procedures to prevent things like this happening again. Or even to stay ahead of accusations. We at EVE University see a lot of new players. They ask us about these things, "are the makers of this game I'm trying out cheating?" We don't lie we say it as we see it, so make sure we can say "no" to that question. CCP: say no to cheating! MM http://eve-ivy.com EVE University commercial
Leonard Darwin Rosewood Productions	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:55:00 - [1777] Originally by: Avon Cheating is wrong, but when revealed it should be dealt with in the correct manner. There really is no excuse for the "threadnaught" approach. If anything it only serves to polarise the community, rather than bringing them together in the interests of honesty and fair-play. I agree with everything you said. However, apparently (as was evidenced by the initial thread deletion), the "correct" routes of handling this had not worked. They were ignored, diverted, deleted - NOT handled. Both sides of this are in the wrong. CCP should not be allowing the deletion of threads that bring up possible internal exploiting. Such a thread should be locked, a statement saying "We are investigating this matter and will unlock this thread with further updates" posted. But that's not how it ran its course. Unfortunately, and I slightly feel bad for the moderator as it was likely just a bad call on his part, the whole problem of the threadnaught could have been avoided. I suspect the silencing of their last outlet pushed them over the edge. Wrong? Yes, both parties were equally wrong in this entire thing. I'd MUCH rather have the revelations of this open to the public. Simply quietly informing IA may have resulted in employee discipline, but they would not have posted publicly about the misconduct (if there was any) if no one knew the wiser. The customers deserve to know if they are playing a rigged game. The past incident, at least for me, was forgivable. They are entitled to one mistake, so long as they took measures to remedy the game so it could never happen again. In this, they did no such thing. Absolutely nothing is stopping something like this from happening again, and again, and again except the thread of the all-seeing IA. However, when the individuals who do this have access to the game infrastructure, it makes me wonder just how easy it would be to get away with it. Again, putting individuals in the situation where they have the power to manipulate the game and at the same time have the know-how and ability to cover it up is not a good situation. Regardless if any of this actually happened, the situation should NOT exist. Period.
Shiina	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:55:00 - [1778] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Natas Dog So what approach do you advocate exactly when your petitions are deleted, and the rest of the 'proper' communications channels result in dead ends? Not all of us have the devs on our MSN buddy list, you know? I would have tried to get in contact with GM Arkonon who is head of IA. Doesn't change anything if he is involved in the whole thing. Who knows in the end? Its easy to see that is post in the News "Allegations of developer misconduct" Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened was simply a developer doing his job ingame. Seems to be a simple lie.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:56:00 - [1779] Originally by: Pogmashon 60+ pages,... I'm curious, has a single Official replied in any kind to any of the statements, alligations, or denials in the previous 60 pages? As a brand new EVE player (just over a month) I would like to know if I am wasting my time even starting to get into a game that could potentially be entirely biased to certain people/corps playing it. Afterall, what is the point in playing a game you cannot hope to succeed at? Even the vague notion that some players may have access to an IWIN button (via direct contact with GM/Devs) makes the game a pure shambles. God along knows just how much espionage has been commited & covered up, unbeknownst to the victims in the past. Even if some of the facts may not be true, nobody should be able to talk to a GM directly without using a petition system, also no GM should be able to use any knowledge gained while working to benefit any character/corp in game. Its a major breach of code of conduct & ethics. I have an incline that this may be a wasted post, however I still wanted to say my piece. I'll be perfectly honest with you, yes you should play the game. Of all the MMO's I've ever played (I've even worked on a couple) this game is the best. Its like the Ingmar Bergman of MMOs. Having said that, I'm sure there are those who live in 0.0 and have to deal with this kind of stuff more often who might disagree with me. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Helmut 314 Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:56:00 - [1780] Originally by: Avon The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out. But that is not the goal here, is it? This isn't about justice and fairness, is it? It is about serving a broader agenda, and that is what is so frustrating. Even my kids have grown out of the "play my way or I'll take my ball back" mentality. This thread is an example of people stoming their feet because they aren't getting their own way. It is akin to blackmailing CCP. "Do what we say or we'll ruin your image, blackening your name throughout the entire internet." Very true on some levels, at least from a certin point of view. CCP and certain people in BoB are to blame for the manner in which the issue is raised though. Some of the worst and most inflammatory posts come from the BoB leadership like Dianabolic, who enjoys rubbing everyones nose in the fact that hes friendly with people who make the game and regularly chat with them. That coupled with CCP:s very dubious handling of past problems and the emotional investment people have in Eve makes for things like threadnaughts. The widespread kneejerk forum bans and post lockings that we see for the second time that allegations of misconducts surfaces doesnt exactly help either, one wonders who did that and who really profits from it. CCP are REALLY bad at handling public relations when its not gamehype-related and doesnt seem to want to learn from past mistakes. They dont seem to need much assistance in "blackening their name across the internet" either, their own volunteers and employees do a good job of that... ________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:57:00 - [1781] Originally by: Haptic Fowl The problem here is that its not just played out in this forum - the goons are trying to discredit the game by publishing it widely on the net: goons digg EVE down CCP is making it really easy for the goons to scorch the game before quitting like the sore losers they are. goons scorch games period. its their purpose in life. they dont play games, they break them. before quitting? quitting? nah, thats just part of their act. its phase three (see below) your talking about an organization that is nothing short of a plague on games. Aside from some personal spite towards RA, its a big reason i am fighting where i am in this war. they kick, they scream, they post w/ alts and say they will quit... as i said 10 pages or so ago.... they will sensationalize ANYTHING to further their own agenda. thats all any of this is. besides the site crash, only thing that occured here was a dev doing his job. goons... i mean, with their resources they could actually be a great group of players. but instead their leadership points them in the opposite direction they know they dont have the skill, ability, patience or anything involved in being successful in this or any other game, so they get as many ppl together as they can and go from there... not stopping for anything, no line in the sand. where most of us would draw teh line at decency, they have just begun. their game is ruining yours, understand yet? metagaming..... and then they wanna cry "only reason bob wins is they cheat" , rofl. and ppl still support them. people like this guy.... Originally by: Beyond Horizon Goons had strict orders from The Mittani not to engage the threadnaught mode UNLESS the first thread is closed. You brought it upon yourselves. how BOS had remained in goons this long i'll never know. i'd be shamed out of the game myself... but i guess thats why none of you show your alliance name when you post on forums. how can ANY ONE OF YOU come in here and preach ANYTHING when you sit back and take orders to break someones website forums? way to be a part of the community i, like many, read the SA forums, and its disgusting. you spew your anti-bob hate, cry and cry about how they cheat (w/ baseless accusations) then turn around and say "hey! we are **ed, lets go ruin the game for everyone else" as a group you openly admit to it! you accuse others of everything under the sun but at the end of the day you are the very thing you claim to despise. YOU are the worst part of this community.** while most ppl attempt to be somewhat courteous on the forums, while most ppl want the game to get better and better, you just want to see it come to a screeching halt. like the michael moore puppet in team america, screaming "bring it all down!" ... whether it be a node or a thread... your actions are always the same. we are here to create a game environment, you are here to destroy it. snip you Mittani:"ok guys, we dont get our way you kick and scream and break teh website" yeah, real nice. ok, whats phase two? Mittani:"get on other websites and slander ccp" sweet, whats phase three? Mittani:"get back to the forums and post that your gonna quit the game" at what point do you actually play the game? you dont! well, not unless you can crash a node... it sucks all the goons that threaten to leave in this thread are nothing but hollow threats. god knows i wish they would just delete every goon member from the game, period. I hate mass punishment, but would be a HUGE step towards returning this community to what it once was. well, only thing i can take away from this entire event is a bit more comfort knowing i'm fighting on the right side in this war. when we win, perhaps the goons will finally get bored and go ruin a different game?
Darkstar BP Caldari eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:57:00 - [1782] Originally by: Khorian Edited by: Khorian on 26/05/2007 16:49:22 Originally by: Natas Dog So what approach do you advocate exactly when your petitions are deleted, and the rest of the 'proper' communications channels result in dead ends? Not all of us have the devs on our MSN buddy list, you know? I would have tried to get in contact with GM Arkonon who is head of IA. [email protected] That doesn't help, why don't you share some CCP MSN names so we can happily chat all together.... Signature removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Halock	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:58:00 - [1783] Has there been any ccp response in this thread at all? This is troubling to say the least, i would hate to think that if i were in a corp and started a war that i'd have no chance of winning because the dev's were on the other guys side........ For the first time in 3 years my subscription is in question :(
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.26 16:59:00 - [1784] Seems to me that people believe too much of what they read. The "facts" in this case are sketchy at best, especially since we don't know the source and there are KNOWN individuals that have been proven to make up anything just to get back at CCP for percieved wrong-doings. Does anyone else find it slightly humorous that this happens only a few days after the IA team gives us their official email address to report suspicious behavior to? And that the avenue wasn't even tried? Now we will never get honest truth or results because the whole thing is so tainted by perceptions and everyone's screaming that you have made internal affair's job impossible. For those that are leaving over things that you don't know are true or not, those that are unwilling to to even let them assertain whether the accusations are true, AND those that have purposely caused disruptions in service and sensationalizim to forward their own agendas: Good riddance. And remember, its just a game <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Ruoska	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:00:00 - [1785] Originally by: Kukki Hope you will unban all the people you baned for posting the link of the Open Letter to CCP. It didnt worked out. You can let them come into this game again. Or do you think that Goon has to much player and that you have to help BoB by baning some Goons and their friends? What?!? They did that? You must be mistaken, for sure. It's commercial company, not North Korea we're speaking about. Seriously? nah, has to be a misunderstanding...
Larice Minmatar 1st Angel Wing	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:02:00 - [1786] Not surprised really, even without the T20 incident. An alliance that prides itself for it's accomplishments with out-of-game mechanics and corrupt employees. And they work together too. Woah never saw that coming. To the BoD's and fanbois: Leave the messenger alone and grow up.
Shivalla Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:02:00 - [1787] Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Viktor Bout Goons go and play POTBS. In POTBS you have a Dev whos a member of SA/Goons. You are searching for an excuse to leave eve coz you ruined nearly every mmporg youve joined exept eve. You assimilated nearly every corp in your area and you still cant win this game. You cant win by blobbing and you cant win by leaving drama bombs. Zerg away... NO DAMNNIT! We're going to ruin this game if it's the last thing we do! Hmmm... And now I can see it all clearly. You are RUINING THE GAME for us all. Stop. Please.
RaYaa Gallente Inferus Gens Militis	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:03:00 - [1788] Originally by: Avon There really is no excuse for the "threadnaught" approach. If anything it only serves to polarise the community, rather than bringing them together in the interests of honesty and fair-play. Afaik, first thing they done, they've sent petitions about this issue but petitions got deleted, why? noone knows. They dont have GM's on MSN to ask them why, so after beign totaly ignored making threadnought was next and logical step for them to get answers that they want to know and let rest of communitiy to know whats going on here. your face, your ass -- what's the difference?
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:03:00 - [1789] Originally by: Halock Has there been any ccp response in this thread at all? This is troubling to say the least, i would hate to think that if i were in a corp and started a war that i'd have no chance of winning because the dev's were on the other guys side........ For the first time in 3 years my subscription is in question :( I doubt they'll reply. They just collect any and all posts related to this issue in this topic. At some point they'll close it and warn everyone who starts a new topic because the discussion wasn't over yet. Forsch Defender of the empire
Pherusa Plumosa Minmatar Freedom for All The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:03:00 - [1790] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Vantras Post it everywhere as far as I am concerend. If the rumors/screenshots/msn chat/logs are ALL false then the truth will prevail. But unfortunately then damage will already have been done. That is exactly why it is the WRONG thing to do. There was a case recently in the UK where a man had been accused of a rather unpleasant crime. The press decided to push to make information public, revealing the evidence of their investigations, fighting between each other to prove that their newspaper was the genuine crusader for justice! Eventually it turned out that the accused man was innocent. Unfortunately, the proof which showed he was innocent was not found until he had been murdered in a revenge killing for a crime he had not been involved in - before the case went to trial. Still, the press got their sales, and the public felt as if justice had been done - until they found out it hadn't. Another high profile case recently saw a group of kids jailed for killing a man they thought was a child molester. They were wrong too. Lifes ruined or ended because people thought that they knew best. The lynch mob mentality is not a sign of a civilised society, and it is something to be frowned upon. It is not cool, or clever, or helpful to think that just because you don't like the system you have the right to take the law in to your own hands. The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out. But that is not the goal here, is it? This isn't about justice and fairness, is it? It is about serving a broader agenda, and that is what is so frustrating. Even my kids have grown out of the "play my way or I'll take my ball back" mentality. This thread is an example of people stoming their feet because they aren't getting their own way. It is akin to blackmailing CCP. "Do what we say or we'll ruin your image, blackening your name throughout the entire internet." Cheating is wrong, but when revealed it should be dealt with in the correct manner. There really is no excuse for the "threadnaught" approach. If anything it only serves to polarise the community, rather than bringing them together in the interests of honesty and fair-play. You found the rotten side of the apple. A court is objective. A judge would never adjudge close friends and there are a couple of good reasons why this is forbidden by law. According to this open letter, the IA team is also involved in this incidents. You are claiming justice and fairness, but how can the playerbase trust employees who are not objective because they are close friends with eve-players or are actively taking part in Eve alliance pollitics? You know the source of lynch mob mentality? It arises when a huge amount of people feel angry and helpless and see their only possibility to change fate by rotting together to be heard. I can only repeat myself: Make a clean cut, forgive former misconducts to make employes not influencable by coworkers, clean this enmashment between ccp staff and big Eve-alliances and punish all further misconducts. Pherusa
grapfter	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:04:00 - [1791] So, anyone plays wow?
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:05:00 - [1792] Originally by: HankMurphy goons scorch games period. its their purpose in life. they dont play games, they break them. before quitting? quitting? nah, thats just part of their act. its phase three (see below) your talking about an organization that is nothing short of a plague on games. Aside from some personal spite towards RA, its a big reason i am fighting where i am in this war. they kick, they scream, they post w/ alts and say they will quit... as i said 10 pages or so ago.... they will sensationalize ANYTHING to further their own agenda. thats all any of this is. besides the site crash, only thing that occured here was a dev doing his job. goons... i mean, with their resources they could actually be a great group of players. but instead their leadership points them in the opposite direction they know they dont have the skill, ability, patience or anything involved in being successful in this or any other game, so they get as many ppl together as they can and go from there... not stopping for anything, no line in the sand. where most of us would draw teh line at decency, they have just begun. their game is ruining yours, understand yet? metagaming..... and then they wanna cry "only reason bob wins is they cheat" , rofl. and ppl still support them. people like this guy.... Originally by: Beyond Horizon Goons had strict orders from The Mittani not to engage the threadnaught mode UNLESS the first thread is closed. You brought it upon yourselves. how BOS had remained in goons this long i'll never know. i'd be shamed out of the game myself... but i guess thats why none of you show your alliance name when you post on forums. how can ANY ONE OF YOU come in here and preach ANYTHING when you sit back and take orders to break someones website forums? way to be a part of the community i, like many, read the SA forums, and its disgusting. you spew your anti-bob hate, cry and cry about how they cheat (w/ baseless accusations) then turn around and say "hey! we are **ed, lets go ruin the game for everyone else" as a group you openly admit to it! you accuse others of everything under the sun but at the end of the day you are the very thing you claim to despise. YOU are the worst part of this community.** while most ppl attempt to be somewhat courteous on the forums, while most ppl want the game to get better and better, you just want to see it come to a screeching halt. like the michael moore puppet in team america, screaming "bring it all down!" ... whether it be a node or a thread... your actions are always the same. we are here to create a game environment, you are here to destroy it. snip you Mittani:"ok guys, we dont get our way you kick and scream and break teh website" yeah, real nice. ok, whats phase two? Mittani:"get on other websites and slander ccp" sweet, whats phase three? Mittani:"get back to the forums and post that your gonna quit the game" at what point do you actually play the game? you dont! well, not unless you can crash a node... it sucks all the goons that threaten to leave in this thread are nothing but hollow threats. god knows i wish they would just delete every goon member from the game, period. I hate mass punishment, but would be a HUGE step towards returning this community to what it once was. well, only thing i can take away from this entire event is a bit more comfort knowing i'm fighting on the right side in this war. when we win, perhaps the goons will finally get bored and go ruin a different game? Excellent post.
Nina Kharn	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:06:00 - [1793] Originally by: grapfter So, anyone plays wow? LoLers maybe a fair few soon.
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:08:00 - [1794] Originally by: Avon The lynch mob mentality is not a sign of a civilised society, and it is something to be frowned upon. It is not cool, or clever, or helpful to think that just because you don't like the system you have the right to take the law in to your own hands. The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out. I agree with you here on several points. Normally, an approach to IA would have been appropriate. HOWEVER, it appeared as if all atttempts would have gone ignored, since the original petition about Sharkbait infiltrating Darkstar 1 was deleted. Also, given past scandals, I think some goons felt as if waiting would be too late -- since a war is ongoing and waits for no one. Finally, it appeared as if BOB was enjoying immediate/instant responses, whereas others were being made to wait. So, a thread deluge seeemed the only recourse to get noticed -- it obviously worked. I think it was the only way several players believed there might be some response in a timely manner. Sort of like when a business whistleblower goes to the press because they believe the guts of an organization are corrupt. Hope this helps explain. Quote: But that is not the goal here, is it? This isn't about justice and fairness, is it? It is about serving a broader agenda, and that is what is so frustrating. Even my kids have grown out of the "play my way or I'll take my ball back" mentality. This thread is an example of people stomping their feet because they aren't getting their own way. It is akin to blackmailing CCP. "Do what we say or we'll ruin your image, blackening your name throughout the entire internet." There are certainly a lot of accusations in here -- have any proof of your so-called "broader agenda"? Any documentation that goons want ANYTHING other than simply fair-play when it comes to ALL the alliances -- including goons? You speak of growing out of "play my way" -- hmmm, are you referring to goons screaming about playing fair as opposed to your way of playing, which includes dev involment in things? That would be an interesting statement. It seems to practically be an admission that the devs DO indeed help BOB, but that we who are yelling for that NOT to happen are children who simply have not grown out of the "play my way" stage. If this is not what you were saying please explain our way of wanting to play (i.e., fair, no dev help) vs. your way that you play. Quote: Cheating is wrong, but when revealed it should be dealt with in the correct manner.There really is no excuse for the "threadnaught" approach. If anything it only serves to polarise the community, rather than bringing them together in the interests of honesty and fair-play. Fair enough. But I would ask: If cheating IS wrong, but the only way to actually get someone to notice is to go public, then is it still wrong to go public? In a perfect world, all one has to do is notify IA of Eve and everything is made better. Restraining orders should help protect women, too. Politicians representing the people should be honest, too. Drug companies should make safe drugs, too. Car mannufacturers should make cars with tires that don't blow out and kill peopel, too. But sadly, we don't live in a perfect world. people are just people. They make mistakes. But mistakes can be correted. I am not sure if I, personally, would have ordered the threadnaught approach. And, you will notice, I did not post on the forums per that order. I took other approaches with various emails I sent behind the scenes. So, clearly, it is not the goal of every goon to destroy Eve, or want all to play as they do, whatever -- just like it is not all BOB members who cheat. Like you, I would VERY MUCH hope for notihng more than the community come "together in the interests of honesty and fair-play." Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Pudgy d'Noob	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:09:00 - [1795] Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. They could fire all of their customers I guess. But, it would make more sense to just ban you.....
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:10:00 - [1796] Originally by: Pepperami Originally by: Avon Originally by: Vantras Post it everywhere as far as I am concerend. If the rumors/screenshots/msn chat/logs are ALL false then the truth will prevail. But unfortunately then damage will already have been done. That is exactly why it is the WRONG thing to do. There was a case recently in the UK where a man had been accused of a rather unpleasant crime. The press decided to push to make information public, revealing the evidence of their investigations, fighting between each other to prove that their newspaper was the genuine crusader for justice! Eventually it turned out that the accused man was innocent. Unfortunately, the proof which showed he was innocent was not found until he had been murdered in a revenge killing for a crime he had not been involved in - before the case went to trial. Still, the press got their sales, and the public felt as if justice had been done - until they found out it hadn't. Another high profile case recently saw a group of kids jailed for killing a man they thought was a child molester. They were wrong too. Lifes ruined or ended because people thought that they knew best. The lynch mob mentality is not a sign of a civilised society, and it is something to be frowned upon. It is not cool, or clever, or helpful to think that just because you don't like the system you have the right to take the law in to your own hands. The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out. But that is not the goal here, is it? This isn't about justice and fairness, is it? It is about serving a broader agenda, and that is what is so frustrating. Even my kids have grown out of the "play my way or I'll take my ball back" mentality. This thread is an example of people stoming their feet because they aren't getting their own way. It is akin to blackmailing CCP. "Do what we say or we'll ruin your image, blackening your name throughout the entire internet." Cheating is wrong, but when revealed it should be dealt with in the correct manner. There really is no excuse for the "threadnaught" approach. If anything it only serves to polarise the community, rather than bringing them together in the interests of honesty and fair-play. Very good post, basically this one and the one from the guy claiming to be ex-blizzard has been the only two insightful posts in this epic thread of alts, out of context admissions and nerd rage. Oh my, nerd rage. Any other colorful expression there, peppy? Are you trying to defend your bobit friends again? Well, this will give you lots of opportunity to do so, in the whole Internet... Avon, the one who is afraid of publicity is always the wrong one. In this case, you. There is no excuse for cheating, no excuse for covering it and above all no excuse for banning people for disclosing it. If any damage is done it is not the fault of Goons or anyone else in the player base. It is CCPs fault. If things don't get resolved in any remotely serious way CCP will have to deal with its name going down the grate in every internet game forum and every game magazine in the market for this and any future products they make. And I confess I will enjoy it. Any self-inflicted suffering is deserved suffering.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:10:00 - [1797] Originally by: HankMurphy Long Post. I disagree. There would be no issues if CCP had not be found of cheating in the past and are still doing shady things either way. This wouldn't occur in WoW, or any other professionally run MMOG. CCP is opening themselves up to this by their very own behavior and have no one to blame but themselves. This is not a BoB or Goonswarm issue, this is a CCP issue.
Joskken Inx PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:11:00 - [1798] To paraphrase: I see wrongdoing. And to me it is wrong. And you would call the matter wrong as well. And we would agree on this. But is the matter you see as wrong the same degree I see as wrong? The perception here, leaving out all this turning around of the matter to waht the goons are doing, is that there is something wrong and there have been several incidents of not just sorta toe the line wrong-this is over that line. It's done and over. Don't know why people would sit here and say "why leave?" when I've been asking "why stay?" for some time now.
Reithan Caldari Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:12:00 - [1799] Originally by: Avon There was a case recently in the UK where a man had been accused of a rather unpleasant crime. ... Lifes ruined or ended because people thought that they knew best. That is a very overblown, exaggerated and almost wholly not-applicable example. it sounds good at first, but the details of the two seperate them enough to make it moot. Originally by: Avon The lynch mob mentality is not a sign of a civilised society, and it is something to be frowned upon. It is not cool, or clever, or helpful to think that just because you don't like the system you have the right to take the law in to your own hands. The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out. Actually, a large portion of CCP's userbase comes from a country FOUNDED on the principle that if you don't like the system you should take matters into your own hands. It's called the USA. Many other countries were founded under revolution conditions, as well. Though, like your previous example, this too, isn't really relevant. Neither is your "lynch-mob" comment. Originally by: Avon But that is not the goal here, is it? This isn't about justice and fairness, is it? It is about serving a broader agenda, and that is what is so frustrating. Even my kids have grown out of the "play my way or I'll take my ball back" mentality. This thread is an example of people stoming their feet because they aren't getting their own way. Why not just address the facts, rather than trying to guess everyone else's motives? Originally by: Avon It is akin to blackmailing CCP. "Do what we say or we'll ruin your image, blackening your name throughout the entire internet." They'd have to have an image worth preserving, first, for that arguement to be valid. Even before this, almost every non-CCP board lists the EVE Devs as dishonest and untrustworthy. At best this will just be viewed as "more of the same." Originally by: Avon Cheating is wrong, but when revealed it should be dealt with in the correct manner. There really is no excuse for the "threadnaught" approach. If anything it only serves to polarise the community, rather than bringing them together in the interests of honesty and fair-play. Welll, when your petitions are deleted, your threads are deleted, your members are banned and muted...sometimes you go to crazy lengths just to be heard. I completely understand GS's actions here and I blame CCP, not GS...though, I'll agree that having to use a 'Threadnought' is ridiculous.
Camilo Cienfuegos Caldari EP0CH	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:13:00 - [1800] Quote: they've sent petitions about this issue but petitions got deleted, why? noone knows. I would presume becaue they either got a group of people to all file the same petition (against the rules), or they filed it under the "stuck" section (again, against the rules). To allow themselves to remain credible, they should've spent this week attempting to get it rectified through all the official channels (petitions in proper sections, emails to internalaffairs) - but by crying wolf, they have thrown any credibility they had into the wind. Had they taken their time and "exposed" this incident with some credible evidence after attempting to do things the right way, I'd be 100% behind them. As it is, I'm 100% amused by the petty nature of this thread, the childish attitude of the anti-bob squad and the running around shouting "WE DIDN'T LISTEN! WE DIDN'T LISTEN!" about the apalling t20 affair. Besides: Could someone please explain to me what a GM checking a bugged pos has to do with cheating, BOB or in fact anyone other than the GM, the pos and the corp in question? No - because it doesn't. Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq anyone?
Hauler's Gal Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:15:00 - [1801] Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos Quote: I want to know if MSN is an authorized 3rd party programme in relation to the game. If not I want whomever reported the ISD incident to CCP banned as they have broken the rules of player conduct. :) Such statements are disclaimers, used in the same way that laws like "Breach of the Peace" are in the UK - as a preventative measure to ensure that they do have the power to eject individuals lawfully from the game should it come to light that they are using software that gives them an ADVANTAGE within the game. If there is misconduct through MSN, then it's not the software that causes this but the individuals relationship. If you are to follow your post to it's conclusion, the use of our web browsers to access this site infringes upon the disclaimer you mentioned, as would the use of ANY application on your machine that was not developed by CCP. Now, I know this statement was made in good humour, but there's enough people misinterpreting things in this incident that even this requires clarification. Sorry I didn't realize I was being as vague as it turned out. What I meant to say was that if they are using MSN instead of the petition system to contact people outside of the chain of the petition system then surely using MSN in that context is a breach of the player conduct rules. Now the web browser can be used to create a petition and has been designed to do so by CCP, so that is within the chain of the petition system. But if only a select few can use the batphone to Oveur or whomever it was then surely that is a staggering abuse of privilege, essentially saying that the petition system is for the poor people, we uber types can just chat with the devs when we want an issue resolved. Assuming that it was true that this happened.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:17:00 - [1802] Originally by: Svaha Norbu Originally by: Hauler's Gal Originally by: Svaha Norbu You know, I would agree with you, but looking over the notes for the last couple of patches, I have to wonder how much net benefit we actually receive from CCP actively playing the game alongside regular players. ... It leads me to wonder if it would be more productive if CCP spent more time actually writing code and investigating problems rather than pewpewing around with their alliance buddies. Good point - especially when the GM's turn round and say that there is no such thing as lag in Jita or Saila. They need to play the game on every level if they are going to play, not just sit with their BoD mates in 0.0. No lag in Jita? LMFAO - it's like saying there isn't any atmosphere on this damn planet... I undocked one evening, went to bed, woke up the next day and it was still a black screen. Eight fricking hours. But of course that's not lag... my are. Yeah. If the whole premise behind ccp playing alongside alliances is to identify and squash bugs, then they are failing miserably by any reasonable measure. I haven't been in EvE for as long as many people, (5-6 months) but there have been glaring, obvious, frequently identified, and totally reproducible bugs that have persisted through the entire time I have played. Camera reset bug anyone? How about drones? The lag infested buggy fleet system? rats spawning inside asteroids and shooting off the grid at 6km/s? Shooting through PoS shields and bumping through shields with supercaps is now a "feature" and not a bug, you say? It reeks of a total lack of effort. I would be more convinced that the we were getting something useful out of CCP playing in alliances if there was actually some sort of tangible benefit in bug fixes, but sadly this does not seem to be the case. I can look at the last few patches and they look a positively anemic effort in comparison to the legions of easily reproduced bugs that persist for months or even years in this game. The whole premise is not* that CCP needs to play the game to find bugs. If CCP is anything like any other MMO company (and it is or EVE wouldn't work period) there is a full-time QA staff numbering at least 30 who do nothing but look for bugs. I think the argument is, not to give it merit because I disagree with it, that CCP needs its staff to play the game so they can have first hand information about game balancing, as well as putting themselves in a better position to understand how they'd like to change and improve the game in the future. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Pehova Mindtriq Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:17:00 - [1803] I think CCP is trying to be emo, why else would they try to inflict so much damage to themselves.
Kasean	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:17:00 - [1804] I consider myself a pretty nuetral person. Everything I do, I do in Empire space. I mostly lvl 4 mission run, and sometimes I mine and arbitrage. I know I have a minor impact on this game. I have never joined a corp with anyone other then a small group of RL friends. I have no bias towards or against BoB or anyone else. First I think CCP really messed up how they dealt with the T20 incident. But their human and everyone is allowed to make mistakes. Were I think the real problem lies is that they didn't put anything in place to prevent it happening with BoB again. It seems to me that you guys hugely profited from the BPOs and information enough so that it tipped the scales in your favor. So be it. But CCP should have had any employees who had ties with BoB move somewhere else. Yes, BoB could be innocent, but once your caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you will always be suspected of doing it. Cry all you want about accusations against you, but when you were caught the first time, you opened yourself up to this. Also Bob, just a word of advice, if you said something like 'an unfortanate incident occured and were going to get to the bottom of this and remove anyone who has been cheeting or whatever from BoB.' I would have been happy and not cancled my accounts. Again, I have no dillusions of my impact in this game. But I do know that I can impact CCPs bottom line, and hopefully they will realise they need to take a harder approach to these situations. Just thought I would post the thoughts of someone who isn't tied to any organisations invovled. 3 Accounts canceled ps. BoB, just a word of advice(from someoen who ran a endgame guild in another game), I would advice you to have your members shutup. Everytime they respond they just dump gas on the fire, even if they are well thought out constructive arguments. Nothing you can say here will help you, trust me on that one.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:18:00 - [1805] This is most disturbing. The damage is already spreading throughout the internet and I had to go look around to see what the fuss was about this time. It is clear that CCP Sharkbait did indeed make himself a member of a player corporation. It is fact that he also made himself a director. For what purpose we can't be sure. It has been stipulated that he was working on a petition, however the corporation in question has said they had no petitions concerning their POSs in operation. So if a petition did exist it was not by the owning corporation, which is possible. CCP Sharkbait has done similar operations in the past citing it as a more efficient method to gain information. It is deplorable that the CEO's petition asking about this situation was summarily deleted. That SHarkbait ignored efforts by the CEO of the corporation to find out what was going on. What I find most interesting is he's made no public ascertion that he indeed was working on a petition, or a bug report. He has remained silent. That is perhaps the biggest mistake. I'm still willing to give him a bit of the benefit of the doubt but it does look on the surface to be somewhat suspicious. The next problem has been established as fact in this very thread by Dianabolic, a member of the Band of Brothers. It is clear by his posts early on in this thread that members of the Band of Brothers have MSN contact information for members of the development and ISD staff. This is inappropriate. Noone, certainly not a group that represents less than 2% of the game population, should have a means to circumvent normal tools provided to the player base. It is also clear that this information has been used to circumvent the normal system. There is enough evidence to support such, and Dianabolic's post also cast little doubt that such has happened. From what previously was established after t20 incident, it is clear that this is a violation of revealing identity information on the part of CCP staff and volunteers. Anyone that has established such a communication link needs to be removed, they have compromised the trust of the player base. Caused an even greater rift than existed beforehand. Evidence some ask for. Well most corporations monitor your email and your im use from their computers. There should be logs if any such contact occured. Only a matter of someone pulling them from the company network. Shouldn't take more than a day. That's assuming adequate protocols were introduced after the previous incidents which we were assured they had been. Any player found to have circumvented normal petition or bug reporting, or to have received inappropriate information through this communication link, needs to be removed from the game. It'll be in those same logs if CCP did as they promised last time and introduced appropriate measures to monitor their employees. It is the existance of this communication link that has really caused the most damage. It is possible that it was done originally in the most innocent terms. That it was indeed meant for friendly banter, but if it is being used in a manner that allows an advantage for a group that constitues less than 2% of the player base then it is clearly wrong and exploitive. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:18:00 - [1806] Originally by: "HankMurphy" Science and win. Will you marry me?
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:18:00 - [1807] Edited by: Cheng on 26/05/2007 17:19:14 Originally by: Pudgy d'Noob Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. They could fire all of their customers I guess. But, it would make more sense to just ban you..... How does it make more sens to ban BL? On what grounds? And why on earth fire their customers? - WTF Are you talking about? Don't act more stupid than you already are. - Why don't you post with your alliance ticker on? --- Reikoku for the motherf00kin life.
Mortamas	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:19:00 - [1808] goons are loosing and iron has already lost so bob must be cheating..... seams to be all ime seeing out of goons. really do we beleve everything ccp says ? then why beleve anything goons say there just getting ****ed that there cheats dont work anymore.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:21:00 - [1809] Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Viktor Bout Goons go and play POTBS. In POTBS you have a Dev whos a member of SA/Goons. You are searching for an excuse to leave eve coz you ruined nearly every mmporg youve joined exept eve. You assimilated nearly every corp in your area and you still cant win this game. You cant win by blobbing and you cant win by leaving drama bombs. Zerg away... NO DAMNNIT! We're going to ruin this game if it's the last thing we do! Hmmm... And now I can see it all clearly. You are RUINING THE GAME for us all. Stop. Please. And by "Us all" you mean BoD. Cry more pleaze. Your tears make me laugh.
REALITY X	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:21:00 - [1810] They wouldn't be working for the U.S. Justice Department or the Bush Administration too, would they? Because then this would all make sense...
Tanaka Kharn	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:21:00 - [1811] Quote: Now the web browser can be used to create a petition and has been designed to do so by CCP, so that is within the chain of the petition system. But if only a select few can use the batphone to Oveur or whomever it was then surely that is a staggering abuse of privilege, essentially saying that the petition system is for the poor people, we uber types can just chat with the devs when we want an issue resolved. Assuming that it was true that this happened. For me this is the nail right on the head.
General Xenophon Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:24:00 - [1812] I think it should be very clear by the response of the play base, that this issue needs to be addressed. This kind of thing will only hurt Eve's image overall, and will NOT help attract more business to the game. The stockholders in CCP should also seriously consider this issue, as it undermines their very investment potential. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men." - Boondock Saints
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:31:00 - [1813] Originally by: AngryCanuk Someone suggested this in another forum....and the more i Think about it, the more I like the idea... Format the database, and start everything over. Who knows how much corruption has allowed for this game to be skewed in favor of certain people..... /signed
Weatherman Gallente Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:31:00 - [1814] My roommate works in the video game industry and I was just talking with him about this whole situation. We both feel really bad for the guy who was probably just doing his job who now has a bunch of children from the something awful forums screaming for him to be fired. I mean, just take a step back and realize that a dude is probably worried about losing his job right now because there are some sore losers posting on alt accounts. I mean, I'm competitive when it comes to games, but that's messed up.
ElweSingollo Starlancers Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:31:00 - [1815] Ignoring the BoB are cheaters 1110110 angle etc which even if the actions in this case were proved to be wrong doesn't constitute that my own feeling on the matter is this. ElweSingollo > if I was going to quit it would have been over the T2o fisasco ElweSingollo > now I basically put it as read that some of the dev's/GM's/ISD are going to take the ** and cheat but I am past caring Being honest I am sad that it hjas to be that way but hey wtf you going to do I either play this game and enjoy what parts of it I can't or don't. CCP and Eve Online... It's not a bug, it's a feature**
Khorian Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:32:00 - [1816] There is something wrong. CCP needs to control their Dev/GM commands better. The new IA seems to work as crime prevention and also they will now investigate this case. what I can see this case is not about BoB. It's about a GM who handled his job poorly. He should have done it invisible to the players. Or he should have informed the Ceo if the corp. We don't know what he did so we can not argue about that. Logical thinking leads me to belive that it was nothing harmful and infact just his job, because he was visible to the Ceo. That is all about that part of the open letter. ISD Events.... well. I have never been in one, but I would guess CCPs story department sets a rough outline for the events, concerning the outcome. So they can move the story in the direction they want it to go. BoB members have MSN contact to CCP, so they say. Maybe some do, maybe they don't. I know as much as you about this (nothing). My last petition took 5 days to be handled, but it was handled in a good professional way. CCP CS is very good compared to other games btw. Who knows what other Alliances have contact to ex-players in CCP? We don't know and probably will never know. BoB is definately not the only alliance from which players became CCP volunteers / employes. I agree that CCP needs to monitor Dev/GM commands better. From what I can see it seems to work lately. This "affair" seems to consist mostly of hot air. There are some accusations, but no real proof. Avon is right when he says there are certain procedures to follow when dealing with crimes in game as in real life. Else we would live in anarchy and mayhem and drumhead court-martial. Like in the Middle Ages when they burned poor women and men as witches for shady reasons. Please, please wait what comes out of this. CCP will investigate and inform us about what happened. Then make your decisions about leaving or staying. If this game is no fun to you there really is no point in playing. Lastly I would like to point out that I am a lowly BoB grunt, since often people mistake the postings of BoB members as the general opinion of BoB as a whole. I want a cheat free game just as the next guy. --------------------- This is the signature
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:34:00 - [1817] Originally by: HankMurphy The series of events that led up never needed to occur, but its not like they logged on and deleted someones fleet... the guy just picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something. He did? That's all that happened? He just "picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something." Where did you read this in an offical response from CCP? Or, did Darkstar 1 just recieve some notification from CCP this is what Sharkbait was officially doing and he simply forgot top tell someone he was doing it? I was under the imporession as of 17:30 GMT that no offcial reply had been made by CCP and that Darkstar 1 had still not received an answer as to why Sharkbait had infiltrated the corp. Thanks in advance for supplying us with your information and its source. If you were referring to something else, please specify. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
SaIIy Minmatar X1 Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:34:00 - [1818] From the information I have seen on Goon forums their whole game is basedon believing they are hard done by because they started playing the game late. They truly believe that others have a major advantage over them becuase they had a chance to win T2 BPOs, or theystarted the game 2 years earlier than they did. If they were sensible and actually played as a cohesive unit then they could of easily made enough isk with their numbers to have the best T2 BPO library in the game. Instead of doing it the hard way they just accuse everyone else of impropriety and constantly demand that the elements of the game that require some effort to achieve are nerfed. Best thing any goon could do in my opinion is log into character selection and choose "Terminate" for all their characters ... come back a day later and confirm for each too, then ask mummy and daddy to stop paying for the account.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:34:00 - [1819] Originally by: Weatherman My roommate works in the video game industry and I was just talking with him about this whole situation. We both feel really bad for the guy who was probably just doing his job who now has a bunch of children from the something awful forums screaming for him to be fired. I mean, just take a step back and realize that a dude is probably worried about losing his job right now because there are some sore losers posting on alt accounts. I mean, I'm competitive when it comes to games, but that's messed up. Your roommate working in a particular industry makes you an authority on nothing. I don't really care who's concerned about their job righ tnow any more than I'd care about some guy who broke any particular law being worried about going to jail. If you're not prepared to accept the consequences of your actions then don't do them. You'd know this of course, being an "adult" and all.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:34:00 - [1820] Originally by: Khorian There is something wrong. CCP needs to control their Dev/GM commands better. The new IA seems to work as crime prevention and also they will now investigate this case. what I can see this case is not about BoB. It's about a GM who handled his job poorly. He should have done it invisible to the players. Or he should have informed the Ceo if the corp. We don't know what he did so we can not argue about that. Logical thinking leads me to belive that it was nothing harmful and infact just his job, because he was visible to the Ceo. That is all about that part of the open letter. ISD Events.... well. I have never been in one, but I would guess CCPs story department sets a rough outline for the events, concerning the outcome. So they can move the story in the direction they want it to go. BoB members have MSN contact to CCP, so they say. Maybe some do, maybe they don't. I know as much as you about this (nothing). My last petition took 5 days to be handled, but it was handled in a good professional way. CCP CS is very good compared to other games btw. Who knows what other Alliances have contact to ex-players in CCP? We don't know and probably will never know. BoB is definately not the only alliance from which players became CCP volunteers / employes. I agree that CCP needs to monitor Dev/GM commands better. From what I can see it seems to work lately. This "affair" seems to consist mostly of hot air. There are some accusations, but no real proof. Avon is right when he says there are certain procedures to follow when dealing with crimes in game as in real life. Else we would live in anarchy and mayhem and drumhead court-martial. Like in the Middle Ages when they burned poor women and men as witches for shady reasons. Please, please wait what comes out of this. CCP will investigate and inform us about what happened. Then make your decisions about leaving or staying. If this game is no fun to you there really is no point in playing. Lastly I would like to point out that I am a lowly BoB grunt, since often people mistake the postings of BoB members as the general opinion of BoB as a whole. I want a cheat free game just as the next guy. Wow. A BoB guy without an ego? I must be dreaming. Please tell more BoB members like you to post. The one's we have now are broken.
BuckWild The Arrow Project	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:35:00 - [1821] Perception = Reality, but not necessarily the Truth. Regardless of the truth, CCP needs to address the Perception.
Red Gabba Use Of Weapons	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:35:00 - [1822] Originally by: Etien Aldragoran Originally by: Jack Target Goonfleet are hypocrites because they have a bad reputation. They thought of a way of lagging the server during battle by typing in local "ofofofofofofo..." You're an idiot. Fofofofo was a victory cry that other idiots used as an excuse to petition the Swarm when they lost, because they couldn't handle being beaten. Was a victory cry, but used many times by the swarm during battle, which in turn is flooding local and considered a exploit.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:36:00 - [1823] Edited by: Karlemgne on 26/05/2007 17:35:06 Originally by: Jack Target Goonfleet are hypocrites because they have a bad reputation. They thought of a way of lagging the server during battle by typing in local "ofofofofofofo..." That doesn't even make sense. Goonfleet are hypocrits because they have a bad reputation? What is the causal link between having a bad reputation and being a hypocrit? Just curious, I mean, I can see how being a hypocrit can cause you to have a bad reputation, but I'm kind of lost about how a bad reputation makes you a hypocrit. Please explain. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Dyeadmheet Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:36:00 - [1824] Originally by: Avon The lynch mob mentality is not a sign of a civilised society, and it is something to be frowned upon. It is not cool, or clever, or helpful to think that just because you don't like the system you have the right to take the law in to your own hands. The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out. But that is not the goal here, is it? Not really, no. I'm not sure I really care to see this investigated or anyone punished. I just want to see the system changed such that there is no longer a conflict of interest because developers and other "insiders" are no longer allowed to play the game. Or, if they are, their characters are publically identified as belonging to CCP employees or ISD members and are not allowed to be in corporations or alliances that have normal non-CCP/ISD people in them. There's no bickering. There's no lynch mob. No need for investigation. Just fix the conflict of interests! It's simple!
Apple Boy Gallente Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:36:00 - [1825] This thread is so can any dev post a a brief summery at the beginning with some Q&A for those that don't have time to read 69 pages of text?
Camilo Cienfuegos Caldari EP0CH	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:38:00 - [1826] Quote: What I meant to say was that if they are using MSN instead of the petition system to contact people outside of the chain of the petition system then surely using MSN in that context is a breach of the player conduct rules. /Signed If the direct contact between players and developers is resulting in a benefit to the player, then there should be a flat policy that CCP employees cannot disclose any insider information (much like the competition laws in the UK) on the game in any way shape or form through all out-of-game forms of communication on the threat of dismissal. It'd be deeply unfair to enact such a policy retroactively, but I'd like to see that line drawn in the sand. As I've made clear, I think this is a storm in a teacup - but such actions would go a long way to mitigate the damage caused by the short sighted so-called "whistleblowers" here and would help bring back the trust within the eve community as a whole.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:38:00 - [1827] Originally by: Apple Boy This thread is so can any dev post a a brief summery at the beginning with some Q&A for those that don't have time to read 69 pages of text? That picture is win.
Factor Benz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:38:00 - [1828] Edited by: Factor Benz on 26/05/2007 17:38:35 Originally by: Red Gabba Originally by: Etien Aldragoran Originally by: Jack Target Goonfleet are hypocrites because they have a bad reputation. They thought of a way of lagging the server during battle by typing in local "ofofofofofofo..." You're an idiot. Fofofofo was a victory cry that other idiots used as an excuse to petition the Swarm when they lost, because they couldn't handle being beaten. Was a victory cry, but used many times by the swarm during battle, which in turn is flooding local and considered a exploit. Fofofo was not used during battle, but rather as a victory cry. Believe whatever you want but it's been proven and said time and time again that talking in local has no impact on lag, regardless. I suppose those of you that have lost can keep telling yourself it's because of some text you saw in local after the battle. Nevermind that during combat the only text you will usually see in local is from whomever you're fighting. You should probably stick to the topic so you can not only post in a fashion that belings in this thread, but maybe with the subject matter so fresh in your mind you can acheieve a small degree of factual accuracy. Just sayin'
Etien Aldragoran GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:39:00 - [1829] Originally by: Red Gabba Originally by: Etien Aldragoran Originally by: Jack Target Goonfleet are hypocrites because they have a bad reputation. They thought of a way of lagging the server during battle by typing in local "ofofofofofofo..." You're an idiot. Fofofofo was a victory cry that other idiots used as an excuse to petition the Swarm when they lost, because they couldn't handle being beaten. Was a victory cry, but used many times by the swarm during battle, which in turn is flooding local and considered a exploit. No moron, we got told not to use it anymore after a sandy vaginaed moron petitioned it, and some other idiot took his whining at face value. It never was an exploit intended to flood local because the mechanics of chat don't work like that anyway, and only idiots ever believed that. Still we took the high road and stopped, because its pretty obvious, especially from you and your comrade that the general game public will believe anything about "goons."
Slykette	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:39:00 - [1830] This game has been flawed by in game "rule and policy makers" for some time. Everyone knows it and nothing does anything about it. The fact that you can not talk to CCP in ANY way is beyond stupid. I have called CCP's office, the "receptionist" hangs up on you. Funny eh? We pay these people money and can't discuss injustice being done in game with anyone other than in game GM's. Needless to say my days playing this are numbered unless the rules are applied evenly and you have a method of going over in game GM's when there is an issue with a serious matter in the game you are PAYING for.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:41:00 - [1831] Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: HankMurphy The series of events that led up never needed to occur, but its not like they logged on and deleted someones fleet... the guy just picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something. He did? That's all that happened? He just "picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something." Where did you read this in an offical response from CCP? Or, did Darkstar 1 just recieve some notification from CCP this is what Sharkbait was officially doing and he simply forgot top tell someone he was doing it? I was under the imporession as of 17:30 GMT that no offcial reply had been made by CCP and that Darkstar 1 had still not received an answer as to why Sharkbait had infiltrated the corp. Thanks in advance for supplying us with your information and its source. If you were referring to something else, please specify. Nice, you found one sentence in all my postings you can actually reply to. Well done I talk from what i see. Do you see anything malicious? What was he doing? 'Fixing' the entire war from that pos so you can never win right? lol, Fact is you have no idea! Neither one of us do. But that does not stop you and yours from doing everything to blow it completely out of preportion. Nope, goons dont care what they know. They dont care about facts or any of it. They want to see heads roll, they want to see 404 messages from crashing websites... because when their down on their luck and losing, they will make sure NO ONE had a good time.... ask yourself, why? Why do it? ....er, i should say, why do you blindly follow the ppl that do it?
xDaKewlGuyx	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:41:00 - [1832] Originally by: Red Gabba Originally by: Etien Aldragoran Originally by: Jack Target Goonfleet are hypocrites because they have a bad reputation. They thought of a way of lagging the server during battle by typing in local "ofofofofofofo..." You're an idiot. Fofofofo was a victory cry that other idiots used as an excuse to petition the Swarm when they lost, because they couldn't handle being beaten. Was a victory cry, but used many times by the swarm during battle, which in turn is flooding local and considered a exploit. The idiot, sir, is you. A few k of text arn't going to lag anything.
mechtech Entropy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:42:00 - [1833] The solution is simple to me, if any CCP member gets their player account revealed as a Dev, that character should be deleted. CCP needs to play their own game, but they need to mix in, and not be known that they are a dev. Also, Devs should never leave the petition system that they set up. If they feel that sometimes alliances need direct help, they should create a type of petition for large alliances that get fast responses. Just popping into random corps and alliances just ends up looking fishy, and has the potential to explode into what we have now. No player should have contact with the devs through MSN, personal email, or anything like that unless they are a RL friend as well, that's really unprofessional. In the end, CCP is just going through growing pains. As a small company, they used personal Q+A to fix lots of problems. As they are getting bigger, they need to tighten up regulations and rules a bit. Everyone loves the dev blogs, fanfest, ect. And CCP never keeps the players out of the loop, we always know what's going on. Give them credit for doing that, and realize that lessons such as these misconduct allegations are going to have to be learned the hard way by CCP. Thus is the price of having such an open company. I for one, will give them a 3rd chance to fix this mess once and for all.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:42:00 - [1834] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: HankMurphy The series of events that led up never needed to occur, but its not like they logged on and deleted someones fleet... the guy just picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something. He did? That's all that happened? He just "picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something." Where did you read this in an offical response from CCP? Or, did Darkstar 1 just recieve some notification from CCP this is what Sharkbait was officially doing and he simply forgot top tell someone he was doing it? I was under the imporession as of 17:30 GMT that no offcial reply had been made by CCP and that Darkstar 1 had still not received an answer as to why Sharkbait had infiltrated the corp. Thanks in advance for supplying us with your information and its source. If you were referring to something else, please specify. Nice, you found one sentence in all my postings you can actually reply to. Well done I talk from what i see. Do you see anything malicious? What was he doing? 'Fixing' the entire war from that pos so you can never win right? lol, Fact is you have no idea! Neither one of us do. But that does not stop you and yours from doing everything to blow it completely out of preportion. Nope, goons dont care what they know. They dont care about facts or any of it. They want to see heads roll, they want to see 404 messages from crashing websites... because when their down on their luck and losing, they will make sure NO ONE had a good time.... ask yourself, why? Why do it? ....er, i should say, why do you blindly follow the ppl that do it? Silly boy declares that social group talks about what they don't know, pretending as if he knows what the social group knows. The circle of stupidity has been completed.
Kyle Hammer	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:43:00 - [1835] I do not have problem with developers playing the game, I have problem with un ethical actions. That should lead to them being banned to test server only! OR FIRED!
Camilo Cienfuegos Caldari EP0CH	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:43:00 - [1836] Quote: Goonfleet are hypocrits because they have a bad reputation? What is the causal link between having a bad reputation and being a hypocrit? Just curious, I mean, I can see how being a hypocrit can cause you to have a bad reputation, but I'm kind of lost about how a bad reputation makes you a hypocrit. The OP meant that they are hypocritical by shouting "OMG HAX!" given that many within the community consider them to have used exploits themselves. Personally, I've always quite liked the goons up until this debacle - good allies, good enemies and a good laugh on voice comms.
EvilBart	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:44:00 - [1837] I hope that all people who used theyr "political connections" will be banned permanently from the game and this kind of actions will be threated as worst possible cheating. I Hope that corrupted admins/moderators/ISD would be thrown out from the game too. Permanently. I heard about ships being given back to you_know_who by admins because of "bugs" (haha!). My friend has been bugged multiple times and lost many ships and never got any back via petition. you_know_who get ships back in 10 minutes. punishement for the cheaters !
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:44:00 - [1838] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: HankMurphy The series of events that led up never needed to occur, but its not like they logged on and deleted someones fleet... the guy just picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something. He did? That's all that happened? He just "picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something." Where did you read this in an offical response from CCP? Or, did Darkstar 1 just recieve some notification from CCP this is what Sharkbait was officially doing and he simply forgot top tell someone he was doing it? I was under the imporession as of 17:30 GMT that no offcial reply had been made by CCP and that Darkstar 1 had still not received an answer as to why Sharkbait had infiltrated the corp. Thanks in advance for supplying us with your information and its source. If you were referring to something else, please specify. Nice, you found one sentence in all my postings you can actually reply to. Well done I talk from what i see. Do you see anything malicious? What was he doing? 'Fixing' the entire war from that pos so you can never win right? lol, Fact is you have no idea! Neither one of us do. But that does not stop you and yours from doing everything to blow it completely out of preportion. Nope, goons dont care what they know. They dont care about facts or any of it. They want to see heads roll, they want to see 404 messages from crashing websites... because when their down on their luck and losing, they will make sure NO ONE had a good time.... ask yourself, why? Why do it? ....er, i should say, why do you blindly follow the ppl that do it? This is ignorant tripe. As was stated before the Goon's are made up of a diverse group, some who have been playing EVE for years, and alot of new people. They ruin games that generally suck or have alot of e-peen flashing. Second Life for instance is one of the most morally void games I've ever seen and I applaud goons kicking the ** out of it. Goonswarm (at least those who come from the SA forums) see this game as the exception to the rule, it is cool, it is not ****** like WoW. They want to see it flourish and become better. This can not happen one there is partial treatment and the community at large is ostracized when they complain about it.
Nicola Sardonicus	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:45:00 - [1839] To CCP: Closing down the forums because you don't like what people are saying (because, after all, that's all you're doing) is misguided and counter-productive. It makes you look like you have something to hide, and believe me, this is being talked about a LOT on other forums (like MMPORPG.com) over which you have no control. This latest action merely fuels the fires of outrage and negative attention on those forums. Just take action quickly, decisively and openly, and be done with it. Most of this could have been avoided had a detailed explanation been immediately provided, and any guilty parties punished appropriately (i.e., employment terminated immediately). Your current dithering just makes things worse.
Darnoth El'lyan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:50:00 - [1840] Originally by: Weatherman Exactly, which is why I'm baffled that anyone is taking this seriously. The goons can't win and so they're trying to ruin the game for everyone. Even if this does trigger a round of people quitting, at least it'll clear out the chaff imo. All the conspiracy theory nuts and the sore losers. It sucks for CCP because they lose revenue, but it might actually be good for the community. Yes, because OBVIOUSLY us not being able to win has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that the ISD guy got fired and banned for doing his job and not sucking up to bob, the fact that a gm joined DS1 with no word and no reason, gave himself director access, and left again without saying anything. This makes perfect sense. I see it so clearly now. We want to destroy the game because we can't beat bob, so we're posting........something that other people have discovered. People who are in no way affiliated with goonswarm (apart from this DS1 incident, which is no where close to the real problem). Care to explain how it's our whining and moaning that's the cause of the whole T20 thing?
Hajyt	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:50:00 - [1841] This is starting to resemble the 9/11 conspiracy discussions on digg/shoutwire. "Your're a ******* sheep!!11, omg Open your mind! CCP is evil!! More like CCCP!!11 zomgz" But seriously, don't make friends with players CCP. Just keep it on a professional level. Community FTW and all, but even if you don't intend to make things unfair, it might slip out. Eve is a great game and a nice hobby for me, please don't mess it up
Etien Aldragoran GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:51:00 - [1842] Originally by: NG4ge Originally by: Etien Aldragoran You're an idiot. Fofofofo was a victory cry that other idiots used as an excuse to petition the Swarm when they lost, because they couldn't handle being beaten. Funny how your alliance released this in a friday night when they are losing most of the 0.0 space they owned doesn't it? But i guess i'm a idiot too ... Indeed you are, because you believe we did this to divert attention from our "losing" instead of outrage at the game we play being turned into crap by the very people we pay to upkeep it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:52:00 - [1843] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Silly boy declares that social group talks about what they don't know, pretending as if he knows what the social group knows. The circle of stupidity has been completed. i don't pretend to know anything. but its still my guess of what happened. i give a dev trying to earn his paycheck the benefit of the doubt. Everyone's trying to earn a paycheck. Getting up and going to work on a videogame doesn't make you any more trustworthy than a gorcery store clerk. The first time something happens I'd probably give it the benefit of the doubt. After corruption is shown repeatedly that is no longer the case. You're entitled to your rose colored glasses, just don't be surprised if you're one of the few people seeing in pink.
Shivalla Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:52:00 - [1844] Originally by: Elmicker Did sharkbait actually do anything while in DS1, or did he just join, give roles, then leave? Something about this whole thing just SCREAMS goon setup. We've even seen the goon leadership appealing for their members to whine and spam CCP employees' inboxes with appeals to change the game. Sharkbait has been seen to join corps previously to fix problems directly, so is there any evidence at all that this is any different? Apart from, of course, anecdotal evidence from (ooh, shock horror) the goons, that their petitions were deleted. I think we all need to wait until the evidence is presented in a fair manner before making rash judgements and dropping drama bombs such as "** CCP, I can't trust them, I'm leaving." You all need to calm down and ask yourselves, "did any of the alleged misconduct actually affect me?" If you still insist on leaving, can i have your stuff? And on the other allegations, I honestly dont see any problems there at all. An ISD reporter jumped directly to a dreadnought pilot, bumping him. This might not seem like much, but a dread in siege suffers a massive tracking penalty, so if they get bumped, they can't hit anything for love nor money. Dreads also tend to group together, if one dread was bumped, it was likely other dreads were, which could result in the dread gang losing upwards of half of its firepower for an entire siege cycle. This is an ISD member interfering with the progress of the game, and is absolutely unacceptable. The BoB FC then used personal connections to have the problem sorted and the ISD member reprimanded, rather than relying on an unreliable, uncertain petition system, which probably would have resulted in a 3-week wait before getting "Our logs did not show anything at the time..." What other EVE player would do any different in the situation, when you have hundreds of people relying on your leadership and planning, and an ISD member has just blundered in and **** everything up? As for the ISD member's other allegations about the RP world being led around on a string, well... They're RPers, they'll get over it. 10/10 Nuff¦said.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:52:00 - [1845] Originally by: Wylker I love how everyone is jumping on these "chat logs" from KUGUTSUMEN of all people and just accepting that they are fact. I also love how everyone is just accepting the goonsquad line that there was no open petition and that they had no POS. I mean seriously, if you guys haven't figured out the MO of the goonies yet, there is NO WAY they would say "oh yeah someoen had a petition just forget about the dramabomb." And anyone that accepts kugut's biased crap is just delusional. Now, I am not saying that something bad may not have happened, all I'm saying is that there is exactly ZERO evidence one way or the other. On a side note, someone from goon swarm posted that they are not associated with all the metagaming, forum whoring, and general asshattery of the SA.com community. It did strike me that I definately do have the tendancy to paint all of GS with the same brush, but at the end of the day, you have aligned yourselves with a terrible group. If you don't want to be associated with SA.com, then you can't associate with the goons. fin. Maybe CCP should wonder why people believe a guy like Kugutsumen more than the producers of the game we all love. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Slykette	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:53:00 - [1846] Originally by: Nicola Sardonicus To CCP: Closing down the forums because you don't like what people are saying (because, after all, that's all you're doing) is misguided and counter-productive. It makes you look like you have something to hide, and believe me, this is being talked about a LOT on other forums (like MMPORPG.com) over which you have no control. This latest action merely fuels the fires of outrage and negative attention on those forums. Just take action quickly, decisively and openly, and be done with it. Most of this could have been avoided had a detailed explanation been immediately provided, and any guilty parties punished appropriately (i.e., employment terminated immediately). Your current dithering just makes things worse. They do even more than close down the forums all the time mate. They "moderate" out ANYTHING they feel is said against CCP or Eve. you are only allowed to say NICE things. LoL Freedom of speach doesn't exist in Iceland I guess.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:53:00 - [1847] Originally by: Wylker And anyone that accepts kugut's biased crap is just delusional. Sadly he's been right more often than not. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Cristian Zabala	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:54:00 - [1848] Ok guys.. Please dont hate me now but could someone sum up what has happened here and what it is that has upset everyone? I just got back into EVE and im confused by this. Hope its not something terrible. Thanks for any answers!
Weatherman Gallente Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:55:00 - [1849] Originally by: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Originally by: Weatherman stuff Your roommate working in a particular industry makes you an authority on nothing. I don't really care who's concerned about their job righ tnow any more than I'd care about some guy who broke any particular law being worried about going to jail. If you're not prepared to accept the consequences of your actions then don't do them. You'd know this of course, being an "adult" and all. LOL I didn't say it made me an authority--It does make me able to have empathy for the guy. I'm sorry that a virtual world is more important to you and your friends than someone's real life. I wouldn't be willing to try to get someone fired based off of such flimsy evidence and hearsay. As for my comment regarding children posting on alts, I think your posts pretty much speak for themselves.
Razor Jaxx Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:56:00 - [1850] Originally by: Verone I remember Eve in 2003/2004. I miss Eve 2003/2004. I'd happily give up all the content, expansions, fixes and improvements that have come about since to go back to the gaming experience and community feeling of 03 and 04. All this crap is getting out of hand, from both sides of the fence. Hear, hear !!
Talaris EveningStar Caldari APEX Unlimited APEX Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:56:00 - [1851] Edited by: Talaris EveningStar on 26/05/2007 17:56:24 Edited by: Talaris EveningStar on 26/05/2007 17:55:39 Originally by: Darnoth El'lyan Yes, because OBVIOUSLY us not being able to win has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that the ISD guy got fired and banned for doing his job and not sucking up to bob, the fact that a gm joined DS1 with no word and no reason, gave himself director access, and left again without saying anything. This makes perfect sense. I see it so clearly now. We want to destroy the game because we can't beat bob, so we're posting........something that other people have discovered. People who are in no way affiliated with goonswarm (apart from this DS1 incident, which is no where close to the real problem). Care to explain how it's our whining and moaning that's the cause of the whole T20 thing? I do have to say the guy was probably just doing his job. CCP failed to communicate this with DarkStar 1's people and that was a mistake on their behalf. Mind you a minor one. However, I agree with the ISD incident that was also reported. If it is fact, that is the worst case of sheer misconduct and ignorant behavior I have ever heard of with a company that claims to be supportive of its player-base. As noted earlier, if this sort of thing ever even was hinted at in Blizzard, we'd be fired faster then you can say 'gone'. -- "Democracy is for the gullible, Tyrrany is for the weak. We, the State, are the answer to both."
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:58:00 - [1852] Edited by: HankMurphy on 26/05/2007 17:56:59 Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: HankMurphy The series of events that led up never needed to occur, but its not like they logged on and deleted someones fleet... the guy just picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something. He did? That's all that happened? He just "picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something." Where did you read this in an offical response from CCP? Or, did Darkstar 1 just recieve some notification from CCP this is what Sharkbait was officially doing and he simply forgot top tell someone he was doing it? I was under the imporession as of 17:30 GMT that no offcial reply had been made by CCP and that Darkstar 1 had still not received an answer as to why Sharkbait had infiltrated the corp. Thanks in advance for supplying us with your information and its source. If you were referring to something else, please specify. Nice, you found one sentence in all my postings you can actually reply to. Well done I talk from what i see. Do you see anything malicious? What was he doing? 'Fixing' the entire war from that pos so you can never win right? lol, Fact is you have no idea! Neither one of us do. But that does not stop you and yours from doing everything to blow it completely out of preportion. Nope, goons dont care what they know. They dont care about facts or any of it. They want to see heads roll, they want to see 404 messages from crashing websites... because when their down on their luck and losing, they will make sure NO ONE had a good time.... ask yourself, why? Why do it? ....er, i should say, why do you blindly follow the ppl that do it? This is ignorant tripe. As was stated before the Goon's are made up of a diverse group, some who have been playing EVE for years, and alot of new people. They ruin games that generally suck or have alot of e-peen flashing. Second Life for instance is one of the most morally void games I've ever seen and I applaud goons kicking the ** out of it. Goonswarm (at least those who come from the SA forums) see this game as the exception to the rule, it is cool, it is not ****** like WoW. They want to see it flourish and become better. This can not happen one there is partial treatment and the community at large is ostracized when they complain about it. Ignorant tripe? So mittani DIDN'T tell them all to crash the website? Then they DIDN'T proceed to do it right? I have no idea why they let any goons play the game . Should be grateful their isn't some mass culling/account deleting. (and again, i hate mass punishment) but seriously, how many times do you have to spam a site into the ground before someone says 'why do we even let these guys log in?' Believe me, i'm KNOW some of them are good guys. I HAVE GOON FRIENDS as hard as that may be to believe. But this does not negate the fact ppl in goonswarm seem hell bent on ruining this game under that flag. If you and they dont like the image, perhaps somone should ask their leader why they dont work to improve it? (it certainly doesn't' seem like they really care to) Crap rolls down a hill, not up it, and i cant see any part of their collective response to this incident as wanting to see something "flourish and become better". Perhaps Mittani would like to come in here and give his view on things? Clear it all up for me as I seem to have it all wrong.....
Commander Stringer Caldari InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:59:00 - [1853] Edited by: Commander Stringer on 26/05/2007 17:59:06 We actually going to get an official reply or is the trolling just going to get worse btw Infinity 4tw..methinks gunna be an eve killa! http://fl-tw.com/Infinity/infinity_combat_proto.php ........ 'Blow your own trumpet 'cuz no other fecker is going to do it for you'
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:59:00 - [1854] Originally by: Weatherman Originally by: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Originally by: Weatherman stuff Your roommate working in a particular industry makes you an authority on nothing. I don't really care who's concerned about their job righ tnow any more than I'd care about some guy who broke any particular law being worried about going to jail. If you're not prepared to accept the consequences of your actions then don't do them. You'd know this of course, being an "adult" and all. LOL I didn't say it made me an authority--It does make me able to have empathy for the guy. I'm sorry that a virtual world is more important to you and your friends than someone's real life. I wouldn't be willing to try to get someone fired based off of such flimsy evidence and hearsay. As for my comment regarding children posting on alts, I think your posts pretty much speak for themselves. When someone's real life job is working on a virtual world then it better be important enough to them to not screw it up, just like anything else. Simply because you're working on a videogame does not mean you do not have to exercise basic ethics and responsibility. It stopped being hearsay when Dian admitted having the MSN contacts. I guess only children can reason or think for themselves.
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:01:00 - [1855] Originally by: HankMurphy I talk from what i see. Do you see anything malicious? What was he doing? 'Fixing' the entire war from that pos so you can never win right? lol, Fact is you have no idea! Neither one of us do. uhm, er .... yeah, that's what all of us are saying. You talk what you see, but do you talk what you read? You seem to not have actually read the last 60+ pages which says exactly this -- and gives reasons why a number of goons, including leadership felt it was necessary to spam forums. Advice - read from p. 1. - We don't know WHAT he was doing - including you. - Goon attempts to find out were rebuffed. - Some goons thought it necessary to make a stink in order to be heard. The actions by Sharkbait, coupled with other controversial behavior by BOB/devs has created this tempest. I will grant you that there may indeed be wonderfully simple little explanations to each of the issues raised (read them again), but at the very least there seems to be a serious lack of trust on the part of MANY players from various corps regarding CCP due to past problems and clearly inappropriate contact between players/devs that is unprecedented in other games (per those who have worked for other games). Quote: But that does not stop you and yours from doing everything to blow it completely out of preportion. Read from p. 1 Quote: Nope, goons don't care what they know. They dont care about facts or any of it. They want to see heads roll, they want to see 404 messages from crashing websites... because when their down on their luck and losing, they will make sure NO ONE had a good time.... uhhh, yeah, right. Well, I can tell you from being a goon, and also from being ex-ASCN and ex-Lotka, that goons do NOT want to destroy Eve. It's a game, and it's a game they want to play. Now, I will grant you, Goons are a bunch of sick, bizarre, wierdo freaks on many levels, mmmkay, but from what i have seen, they're not really into wanting to cheat or destroy Eve. They want a level playing field. Quote: ask yourself, why? Why do it? ....er, i should say, why do you blindly follow the ppl that do it? Actually, I didn't follow anybody. I didn't post anything to forums until this official thread was opened. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
maximus babbarus Freelance Economics Astrological resources	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:01:00 - [1856] i havnt read this whole 70 page + but just gona vioce my opinion ^^ to me i couldnt care less if members of bob have dev friends they talk to on msn, i have friends in possitions of power as such and that doesnt make a friendship a bad things, also helping make this game better is a good thing and been able to talk to them is great on such matter. what isnt cool is when bob members openly say they will exercise a friendship with members within ccp to ruin the game for another person that i cinsider a little uncalled for. as far the the rp been rigged i think a sertain lvl of knowing were you want to take it is needed, but ive always found a good gm what ever the game either mmorpg or pen and paper has the ability to work with the player base and take it were they want it to go. the "pos" thing well ive had problems with my pos and ive had no member of ccp join my corp?!? but tbh i dont buy it start caring about your player base more than how you will get more players in (im talking grander scale meaning recent server problems instead of marketing)or you will loose more players than you get in as your best marketing is word of mouth within the player base
Plim Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:02:00 - [1857] Originally by: Khorian There is something wrong. CCP needs to control their Dev/GM commands better. The new IA seems to work as crime prevention and also they will now investigate this case. what I can see this case is not about BoB. It's about a GM who handled his job poorly. He should have done it invisible to the players. Or he should have informed the Ceo if the corp. We don't know what he did so we can not argue about that. Logical thinking leads me to belive that it was nothing harmful and infact just his job, because he was visible to the Ceo. That is all about that part of the open letter. ISD Events.... well. I have never been in one, but I would guess CCPs story department sets a rough outline for the events, concerning the outcome. So they can move the story in the direction they want it to go. BoB members have MSN contact to CCP, so they say. Maybe some do, maybe they don't. I know as much as you about this (nothing). My last petition took 5 days to be handled, but it was handled in a good professional way. CCP CS is very good compared to other games btw. Who knows what other Alliances have contact to ex-players in CCP? We don't know and probably will never know. BoB is definately not the only alliance from which players became CCP volunteers / employes. I agree that CCP needs to monitor Dev/GM commands better. From what I can see it seems to work lately. This "affair" seems to consist mostly of hot air. There are some accusations, but no real proof. Avon is right when he says there are certain procedures to follow when dealing with crimes in game as in real life. Else we would live in anarchy and mayhem and drumhead court-martial. Like in the Middle Ages when they burned poor women and men as witches for shady reasons. Please, please wait what comes out of this. CCP will investigate and inform us about what happened. Then make your decisions about leaving or staying. If this game is no fun to you there really is no point in playing. Lastly I would like to point out that I am a lowly BoB grunt, since often people mistake the postings of BoB members as the general opinion of BoB as a whole. I want a cheat free game just as the next guy. If only more BoB members had the sense to post like this, you would have a much better rep. You do not seem overtly defensive and have a fairly balanced argyment. I don't agree with the 'correct procedures' argument though. I think that argument often shows a latent disdain for democracy. You should not have faith in a system which has already been shown to fail. Like people have said, other avenues don't have any effect. Don't forget that after the t20 incident there was supposed to be an internal investigation. We must assume that those who carried it out were either incompetant, or biased if even 50% of this stuff is true. You are right though, it isn't about BoB. It's about CCP allowing corruption to happen. The failure of CCP's part is expressed through BoB. If CCP was managed properly, it would not matter how much certain members of BoB, or anyone else for that matter wanted to corrupt the game and thier staff, it just wouldn't happen. There has been a system in place to foster this kind of stupidity.
NG4ge Gallente Knights of The Round CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:02:00 - [1858] Edited by: NG4ge on 26/05/2007 18:02:55 Originally by: Etien Aldragoran Indeed you are, because you believe we did this to divert attention from our "losing" instead of outrage at the game we play being turned into crap by the very people we pay to upkeep it. Oh spare me your crap, i remember quite well your alliance leader saying as a moral boost alliance mail that its either you (Goonswarm) or BoB that gets the "privilege" of ruining the game. As a comunity known as being dedicated to ruining MMORPG's, that spams forums on command when things don't go your way and that use anything damageing to your in-game "enemys" to max propaganda value, you realy fail at makeing me belive that you are just upset about a corrupt CCP.
Factor Benz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:02:00 - [1859] Originally by: HankMurphy Edited by: HankMurphy on 26/05/2007 17:56:59 Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: HankMurphy The series of events that led up never needed to occur, but its not like they logged on and deleted someones fleet... the guy just picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something. He did? That's all that happened? He just "picked a bass ackwards way of fixing something." Where did you read this in an offical response from CCP? Or, did Darkstar 1 just recieve some notification from CCP this is what Sharkbait was officially doing and he simply forgot top tell someone he was doing it? I was under the imporession as of 17:30 GMT that no offcial reply had been made by CCP and that Darkstar 1 had still not received an answer as to why Sharkbait had infiltrated the corp. Thanks in advance for supplying us with your information and its source. If you were referring to something else, please specify. Nice, you found one sentence in all my postings you can actually reply to. Well done I talk from what i see. Do you see anything malicious? What was he doing? 'Fixing' the entire war from that pos so you can never win right? lol, Fact is you have no idea! Neither one of us do. But that does not stop you and yours from doing everything to blow it completely out of preportion. Nope, goons dont care what they know. They dont care about facts or any of it. They want to see heads roll, they want to see 404 messages from crashing websites... because when their down on their luck and losing, they will make sure NO ONE had a good time.... ask yourself, why? Why do it? ....er, i should say, why do you blindly follow the ppl that do it? This is ignorant tripe. As was stated before the Goon's are made up of a diverse group, some who have been playing EVE for years, and alot of new people. They ruin games that generally suck or have alot of e-peen flashing. Second Life for instance is one of the most morally void games I've ever seen and I applaud goons kicking the ** out of it. Goonswarm (at least those who come from the SA forums) see this game as the exception to the rule, it is cool, it is not ****** like WoW. They want to see it flourish and become better. This can not happen one there is partial treatment and the community at large is ostracized when they complain about it. Ignorant tripe? So mittani DIDN'T tell them all to crash the website? Then they DIDN'T proceed to do it right? I have no idea why they let any goons play the game . Should be grateful their isn't some mass culling/account deleting. (and again, i hate mass punishment) but seriously, how many times do you have to spam a site into the ground before someone says 'why do we even let these guys log in?' Believe me, i'm KNOW some of them are good guys. I HAVE GOON FRIENDS as hard as that may be to believe. But this does not negate the fact ppl in goonswarm seem hell bent on ruining this game under that flag. If you and they dont like the image, perhaps somone should ask their leader why they dont work to improve it? (it certainly doesn't' seem like they really care to) Crap rolls down a hill, not up it, and i cant see any part of their collective response to this incident as wanting to see something "flourish and become better". Perhaps Mittani would like to come in here and give his view on things? Clear it all up for me as I seem to have it all wrong..... There was never an order given to crash any website. If you have magical "goon friends" telling you otherwise than you should probably stop listening to their sensationalist tripe. If you were in any way worth talking to I'm sure Mittani would already be doing so. Perhaps you can open a back channel via one of your multiple goon contacts.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:04:00 - [1860] Originally by: eleuthereus uhhh, yeah, right. Well, I can tell you from being a goon, and also from being ex-ASCN and ex-Lotka, that goons do NOT want to destroy Eve. It's a game, and it's a game they want to play. Now, I will grant you, Goons are a bunch of sick, bizarre, wierdo freaks on many levels, mmmkay, but from what i have seen, they're not really into wanting to cheat or destroy Eve. They want a level playing field. Sorry bud, you may not have seen it yet. But you are wrong. They have done it before, they always resort to it in the end. You may not want what they want, but at the end of the day, the GS leadership/SA community doesn't give a crap about fair play. They want to steamroll/meta/win on forums, and when they can't or get bored, they burn games down. Being ex-ASCN and ex-LV in no way means you have a clue about what GS is all about.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:04:00 - [1861] Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos I would presume Yeah, thats your problem. -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
Factor Benz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:12:00 - [1862] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Factor Benz Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Factor Benz There was never an order given to crash any website. If you have magical "goon friends" telling you otherwise than you should probably stop listening to their sensationalist tripe. If you were in any way worth talking to I'm sure Mittani would already be doing so. Perhaps you can open a back channel via one of your multiple goon contacts. Yeah im sure it was just coincidence that 2938742398743928 different people posted in 208934023984093284 different threads a link to a goonswarm hosted file. Every single post was either by someone wearing a GS tag or a noob corp alt. Something stinks, and I think its your arguement. Ah yes, you have cleverly dismantled my arguement with reason, logic... er wait, nope just a personal attack disguised as.. something. Again, why would hundreds of posts show up within 5 minutes of eachother all from goons or from their alts? <--- is that more clear for you? I can try smaller words if that would help. And no, I'm not above flaming the **** out of you for being intentionally obtuse. I would say "you seem like an intelligent lad" to preface this, but you don't. There's a major difference between ordering a website to be crashed and people posting on said website. I don't expect you to be able to tell the difference, but I would expect someone with an ability to reason to do so. People posting on a website do not constitute an order to crash said website. When you can change logic and make it otherwise you'll have a point. Until then you'll just continue to look like a silly lil goose.
Welfare State GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:13:00 - [1863] Originally by: Wylker Ah yes, you have cleverly dismantled my arguement with reason, logic... er wait, nope just a personal attack disguised as.. something. Again, why would hundreds of posts show up within 5 minutes of eachother all from goons or from their alts? <--- is that more clear for you? I can try smaller words if that would help. And no, I'm not above flaming the **** out of you for being intentionally obtuse. Why do thousands of people show up to protest something? Why not just one person show up with a sign and leave it at that.
ApathyKills	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:14:00 - [1864] Edited by: ApathyKills on 26/05/2007 18:16:06 Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Elmicker Did sharkbait actually do anything while in DS1, or did he just join, give roles, then leave? Something about this whole thing just SCREAMS goon setup. We've even seen the goon leadership appealing for their members to whine and spam CCP employees' inboxes with appeals to change the game. Sharkbait has been seen to join corps previously to fix problems directly, so is there any evidence at all that this is any different? Apart from, of course, anecdotal evidence from (ooh, shock horror) the goons, that their petitions were deleted. I think we all need to wait until the evidence is presented in a fair manner before making rash judgements and dropping drama bombs such as "** CCP, I can't trust them, I'm leaving." You all need to calm down and ask yourselves, "did any of the alleged misconduct actually affect me?" If you still insist on leaving, can i have your stuff? And on the other allegations, I honestly dont see any problems there at all. An ISD reporter jumped directly to a dreadnought pilot, bumping him. This might not seem like much, but a dread in siege suffers a massive tracking penalty, so if they get bumped, they can't hit anything for love nor money. Dreads also tend to group together, if one dread was bumped, it was likely other dreads were, which could result in the dread gang losing upwards of half of its firepower for an entire siege cycle. This is an ISD member interfering with the progress of the game, and is absolutely unacceptable. The BoB FC then used personal connections to have the problem sorted and the ISD member reprimanded, rather than relying on an unreliable, uncertain petition system, which probably would have resulted in a 3-week wait before getting "Our logs did not show anything at the time..." What other EVE player would do any different in the situation, when you have hundreds of people relying on your leadership and planning, and an ISD member has just blundered in and ** everything up? As for the ISD member's other allegations about the RP world being led around on a string, well... They're RPers, they'll get over it. 10/10 Nuff¦said. Your ignorance knows no bounds. Perhaps you should look into history and reassess what you've said and highlighted. Now, I'm not saying this issue is ANYWHERE near the magnitude of my analogy, but the implications are the same. Back in the late 30's there was a ** state that was rounding up Jewish people and putting them in confined areas. The majority of Europe was like "ehhh this doesn't affect me, we should all calm down and just ignore it." Let's ask history how well that worked out. It f*cking didn't. Apathy and laziness are the scourge of mankind and by extension the EVE universe. Realizing that there is a problem and then saying it doesn't matter because it doesn't affect you is the worst mindset ANYONE can have in life. It gets people killed. In regards to your post 1/10. Comments: While your post was entirely devoid of any critical thought you did spell right (assuming Nuff' is considered to be an acceptable colloquialism) and that earns you a point. PS check out my name, Apathy Kills
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:14:00 - [1865] Edited by: Soporo on 26/05/2007 18:14:03 This is the point:(ripped from another post) So to summarize:* A CCP DEVELOPER(t20), acting as head of BoB's capital fleet, was found to be cheating in conjunction with BoB by spawning Tech 2 Blueprint Originals. That CCP Developer was not fired for his actions, an outcome that is completely unacceptable.* Several members of BoB have stated that they have direct lines via MSN to CCP Developers/GMs.* We have testimony from a former ISD member that BoB member(s) used these connections to get him fired without explanation or reasonable cause. This testimony is accompanied by actual chat logs to that effect which theoretically should be verifiable by CCP. One of the supposedly corrupt CCP employees has been identified, making it even easier to investigate.* Evidence and testimony from multiple sources indicates the Aurora, the group in charge of RP events, has been rigging the outcome of these events. There are also indications that Nebulai, the head of Aurora, was a former BoB member.You need to investigate these events fully and transparently, notifying the EVE community of your complete findings. At best they indicate an unhealthy cultural link between CCP employees and the BoB alliance, at worst they are indicators of outright cheating. Any corruption/tampering discovered must result in the perpetrators being fired.
Etien Aldragoran GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:15:00 - [1866] Originally by: NG4ge Edited by: NG4ge on 26/05/2007 18:02:55 Originally by: Etien Aldragoran Indeed you are, because you believe we did this to divert attention from our "losing" instead of outrage at the game we play being turned into crap by the very people we pay to upkeep it. Oh spare me your crap, i remember quite well your alliance leader saying as a moral boost alliance mail that its either you (Goonswarm) or BoB that gets the "privilege" of ruining the game. As a comunity known as being dedicated to ruining MMORPG's, that spams forums on command when things don't go your way and that use anything damageing to your in-game "enemys" to max propaganda value, you realy fail at makeing me belive that you are just upset about a corrupt CCP. Uh huh, want to try again? I don't think you could look much more bitter or stupid, but you're welcome to try. The whole "ruining" the game thing is just you and your ****** cronies taking the fact that we LIKE playing the bad guys and all your hate about us making the game fun. We were accused of "ruining" the game so long ago and so many times since, by people who can't handle a different point of view than their own, that its turned into a funny catchphrase for the general Swarm population, meant to mean deriving pleasure and playtime from your incessant whining about what we're doing "wrong." As far as "spamming on command" the only thing I see about the whole matter on the Swarm forums basically boils down to a "Hey guys, some really ** up happened, our attempts at getting a response were blackballed, we're lifting the eve-o forums ban, have at it with all your goonishness." Of course goons being goons the collective we went ****** and overboard, causing the "forums crash." Which, oh so coincidentally, actually getting a real response out of it instead of the information blackout CCP seems to prefer to use in any case where they might be in the wrong. Of course since then theres been diddly squat in the way of updates, so things have been escalated further, but yeah, we're out to ruin the game... Grow up, you aren't any better than your average goon, in fact, I'd say your dumbass is worse.
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:15:00 - [1867] Edited by: eleuthereus on 26/05/2007 18:15:15 Originally by: Wylker Sorry bud, you may not have seen it yet. But you are wrong. Always teachable. That's me. So, if you can give me an example or two, that would be great. Quote: They have done it before, they always resort to it in the end. You may not want what they want, but at the end of the day, the GS leadership/SA community doesn't give a crap about fair play. They want to steamroll/meta/win on forums, and when they can't or get bored, they burn games down. Ok, fine. I'm open, please provide documention and examples of that. As I said, I'm always open to listening to whomever. Quote: Being ex-ASCN and ex-LV in no way means you have a clue about what GS is all about. Yeah, very true. I can only talk about what I have seen in my short time as a goon. So, as I have said, enlighten me. Even so, it doesn't change: 1. BPO scandal 2. Ongoing close connections between BOB and devs 3. Infiltration of Darkstar 1 by CCP Sharkbait w/ no explanation prior to, or after, said infiltration 4. Comments by BOB suggesting they circumvent natural petition process 5. Allegations of RP event rigging. ------ Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:15:00 - [1868] Originally by: SaIIy Best thing any goon could do in my opinion is log into character selection and choose "Terminate" for all their characters ... come back a day later and confirm for each too, then ask mummy and daddy to stop paying for the account. I thought the Goons were the imature morons in this game? -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
Camilo Cienfuegos Caldari EP0CH	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:16:00 - [1869] Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 26/05/2007 18:17:57 Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos I would presume Yeah, thats your problem. And that's rather presumptuous! Make a point or leave, troll. Edited to remove my own profanity.
Led Vistro Iron Dragon Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:17:00 - [1870] I dont know what really happend and dont care... CCP has created this mistrust by themselves..No one can deny that. But whats funny is that BoB is right there defending them... LOL By defending CCP you futher escalate the BoB+CCP or the BoB=CCP rumors. My 2 cents..
Lian To	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:17:00 - [1871] I'm having problems forming my own opinion about this at the moment, since I can't seem to find any hard "evidence", other than what was posted on the goons page. Has CCP admitted or denied to any of this yet? Which bits do we know are true? I'm not trying to start drama or anything (I'm not a member of a corp yet for starters), it just seems to me that this is one of the type of things that people love to hate, and will get blown out of proportion no matter if it's true or not.
R0ot InNova Tech Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:17:00 - [1872] Originally by: Factor Benz People posting on a website do not constitute an order to crash said website. When you can change logic and make it otherwise you'll have a point. Until then you'll just continue to look like a silly lil goose. But was there an order or a request by Goons leadership to spam the forums in the way they did with that link and/or story? ------------------------------------------------------------------
Kalestra Cable Faust Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:19:00 - [1873] I'm pretty new to this game only played a couple months so I guess I my opinion doesn't count for a whole lot at the moment but this seems to stink. I really am kind of glad I've not invested too much time in this game at this point.. I look forward to a hopefully full and detailed explanation from CCP on what the hell is going on with this game. Kal
Shivalla Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:20:00 - [1874] Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Viktor Bout Goons go and play POTBS. In POTBS you have a Dev whos a member of SA/Goons. You are searching for an excuse to leave eve coz you ruined nearly every mmporg youve joined exept eve. You assimilated nearly every corp in your area and you still cant win this game. You cant win by blobbing and you cant win by leaving drama bombs. Zerg away... NO DAMNNIT! We're going to ruin this game if it's the last thing we do! Hmmm... And now I can see it all clearly. You are RUINING THE GAME for us all. Stop. Please. And by "Us all" you mean BoD. Cry more pleaze. Your tears make me laugh. By us all, I mean the whole EVE-ONLINE community of players. As it has been said many times b4, these un-constructive trolls and flames, are only making this thread, and for example CAOD in sense utterly disappointing. And in general the WHOLE COMMUNITY feels sick and tired of people who aims to break the community. You sir, aint helping.
ElweSingollo Starlancers Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:20:00 - [1875] Originally by: Wylker I love how everyone is jumping on these "chat logs" from KUGUTSUMEN of all people and just accepting that they are fact. I also love how everyone is just accepting the goonsquad line that there was no open petition and that they had no POS. I mean seriously, if you guys haven't figured out the MO of the goonies yet, there is NO WAY they would say "oh yeah someoen had a petition just forget about the dramabomb." And anyone that accepts kugut's biased crap is just delusional. Now, I am not saying that something bad may not have happened, all I'm saying is that there is exactly ZERO evidence one way or the other. On a side note, someone from goon swarm posted that they are not associated with all the metagaming, forum whoring, and general asshattery of the SA.com community. It did strike me that I definately do have the tendancy to paint all of GS with the same brush, but at the end of the day, you have aligned yourselves with a terrible group. If you don't want to be associated with SA.com, then you can't associate with the goons. fin. Only problem is that were it not for Kuuguts the whole T20 fiasco would never have been found out or resolved in any manner... are you saying T20's misconduct was delusional crap that CCP never admitted or setup a QA to "iN THEORY" deal with again? CCP and Eve Online... It's not a bug, it's a feature
General Xenophon Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:20:00 - [1876] Originally by: Khorian There is something wrong. CCP needs to control their Dev/GM commands better. The new IA seems to work as crime prevention and also they will now investigate this case. what I can see this case is not about BoB. It's about a GM who handled his job poorly. He should have done it invisible to the players. Or he should have informed the Ceo if the corp. We don't know what he did so we can not argue about that. Logical thinking leads me to belive that it was nothing harmful and infact just his job, because he was visible to the Ceo. That is all about that part of the open letter. ISD Events.... well. I have never been in one, but I would guess CCPs story department sets a rough outline for the events, concerning the outcome. So they can move the story in the direction they want it to go. BoB members have MSN contact to CCP, so they say. Maybe some do, maybe they don't. I know as much as you about this (nothing). My last petition took 5 days to be handled, but it was handled in a good professional way. CCP CS is very good compared to other games btw. Who knows what other Alliances have contact to ex-players in CCP? We don't know and probably will never know. BoB is definately not the only alliance from which players became CCP volunteers / employes. I agree that CCP needs to monitor Dev/GM commands better. From what I can see it seems to work lately. This "affair" seems to consist mostly of hot air. There are some accusations, but no real proof. Avon is right when he says there are certain procedures to follow when dealing with crimes in game as in real life. Else we would live in anarchy and mayhem and drumhead court-martial. Like in the Middle Ages when they burned poor women and men as witches for shady reasons. Please, please wait what comes out of this. CCP will investigate and inform us about what happened. Then make your decisions about leaving or staying. If this game is no fun to you there really is no point in playing. Lastly I would like to point out that I am a lowly BoB grunt, since often people mistake the postings of BoB members as the general opinion of BoB as a whole. I want a cheat free game just as the next guy. I would like to say that I very much appreciate your thoughtful and level-headed response to this issue. In response to what you said though, Goonswarm claims that they did not lodge a petition about some issue which would prompt a GM to do this kind of thing, so this seems really weird. Secondly, in a thread like this, and past corruptions with T20 and the like, it's not a stretch to imply BoB somehow - not that I like the thought of it (really I don't- mudslinging is disgusting)... As much as I completely hate all forms of cheating, I must say that not all BoB are cheaters or bad people! As in RL it just takes a couple rotten apples to screw it up for the rest, unforunately in this case corruption seems to be accepted and promoted within BoB tactics and the like as in the T20 case where BoB people allowed the BPOs to be used and accepted the cheating. Also I am not sure if this has already been addressed, but the image http://homepage.ntlworld.com/simon.moore650/CCP%20charkbait%202.png has a couple of options on the screen which may be from the Sisi server? Particularly 'Polictics' and 'Accounts'. Has this been addressed? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men." - Boondock Saints
Emrod Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:20:00 - [1877] Originally by: WildSide any goons able to answer (or tell me its secret) if the POS was a capital Pos or not. :) would make things a bit clearer. ((off topic Bob pets you are!)) its the answer. I sell some logoff t2 module,improved forum flamming tachyon beam and Bob Lag generator faction item, contact me ingame for more info :P
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:21:00 - [1878] Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Elmicker Did sharkbait actually do anything while in DS1, or did he just join, give roles, then leave? Something about this whole thing just SCREAMS goon setup. We've even seen the goon leadership appealing for their members to whine and spam CCP employees' inboxes with appeals to change the game. Sharkbait has been seen to join corps previously to fix problems directly, so is there any evidence at all that this is any different? Apart from, of course, anecdotal evidence from (ooh, shock horror) the goons, that their petitions were deleted. I think we all need to wait until the evidence is presented in a fair manner before making rash judgements and dropping drama bombs such as "** CCP, I can't trust them, I'm leaving." You all need to calm down and ask yourselves, "did any of the alleged misconduct actually affect me?" If you still insist on leaving, can i have your stuff? And on the other allegations, I honestly dont see any problems there at all. An ISD reporter jumped directly to a dreadnought pilot, bumping him. This might not seem like much, but a dread in siege suffers a massive tracking penalty, so if they get bumped, they can't hit anything for love nor money. Dreads also tend to group together, if one dread was bumped, it was likely other dreads were, which could result in the dread gang losing upwards of half of its firepower for an entire siege cycle. This is an ISD member interfering with the progress of the game, and is absolutely unacceptable. The BoB FC then used personal connections to have the problem sorted and the ISD member reprimanded, rather than relying on an unreliable, uncertain petition system, which probably would have resulted in a 3-week wait before getting "Our logs did not show anything at the time..." What other EVE player would do any different in the situation, when you have hundreds of people relying on your leadership and planning, and an ISD member has just blundered in and **** everything up? As for the ISD member's other allegations about the RP world being led around on a string, well... They're RPers, they'll get over it. 10/10 Nuff¦said. Nuff said, if you'll listen. And besides perhaps some ISD members with a grudge especially good RP'ers can tell a story in a very interesting way even if it's not that interesting to begin with. Gimme a fecking break, being outraged that story arcs have a intended ending. how fecking stupid can you be.
Foopadoo	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:22:00 - [1879] STOP HIRING PLAYERS YOU IDIOTS
Farham AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:24:00 - [1880] Quote: " You all need to calm down and ask yourselves, "did any of the alleged misconduct actually affect me?" Thats the thing, we don't know. Lets look at two of the accusations through total hypothetical and how it might appear to be very little on the surface but in fact could be game changing. The Sharkbait incident. 1. It could have been exactly as CCP is saying early on with him joining the corp to fix a POS. He might have just forgot to follow normal procedure and notify the corp first. The petition he was responding to might have been lost. Hey, crap happens, people make mistakes. This has no affect on me. or 2. The other hypothetical extreme as someone posted, he was looking to see if Darkstar1 had a capital POS and if so what was cooking and for how long. Lets also suppose he finds a Titan cooking. This information then gets handed to "friends of Devs" and walah...they are able to properly plan a 3 day siege ahead of time, moving all the needed ships, materials etc and take out that capital POS via a mega camp. Bam, huge effect for everyone in 0.0..for some beneficial, some disastrous. The Dinabolic admission that BOB higher ups have close relationships and direct contact with CCP Devs. 1. This could be completely on the up and up. No information is ever whittled out of the Devs ahead of time that could help BOB direct their resources in terms of ship building, outpost building etc. No ability to get around the petition system is available and the IRC and MSN chat is completely benign. This doesn't affect me in a real sense. or 2. Picture a screwy POS that BOB is sieging and instead of having to roll the dice with a petition that might take 2 minutes to get responded to or also might take 30+ thus exposing them to a defense build up...they pop on MSN and BAM...fixed POS no exposure. Imagine the reverse...TCF and UL are sieging a BOB POS and it goes all buggy, they petition and it takes 30 minutes...enough time for BOB to get in support and super capitals turning the siege into a failure and costing them 20 capital ships because they didn't have the direct back Dev access. This affects all of 0.0. You simply can not have corporate employees being on anything more than a professional level relationship in a game like this...because otherwise there will always be doubt. Intrepid Crossing Diplomat and All Around Major Idiot
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:44:00 - [1881] Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Viktor Bout Goons go and play POTBS. In POTBS you have a Dev whos a member of SA/Goons. You are searching for an excuse to leave eve coz you ruined nearly every mmporg youve joined exept eve. You assimilated nearly every corp in your area and you still cant win this game. You cant win by blobbing and you cant win by leaving drama bombs. Zerg away... NO DAMNNIT! We're going to ruin this game if it's the last thing we do! Hmmm... And now I can see it all clearly. You are RUINING THE GAME for us all. Stop. Please. And by "Us all" you mean BoD. Cry more pleaze. Your tears make me laugh. By us all, I mean the whole EVE-ONLINE community of players. As it has been said many times b4, these un-constructive trolls and flames, are only making this thread, and for example CAOD in sense utterly disappointing. And in general the WHOLE COMMUNITY feels sick and tired of people who aims to break the community. You sir, aint helping.
An Anarchyyt	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:48:00 - [1882] Originally by: eleuthereus Over the top, my friend. Really, i think the only thing most players, indlucing goons want, is a simply, clear, dividing line between all powerful devs/Gms who can affect the game and all alliances, to be specific Band of Brothers, whose reputation it seems at this point, has been tarnishe forever in teh eyes of many players (not just goons). Something needs to happen. Something needs to change. I don't have all the answers. But I am hoping that someone or several persons at CCP will fix things for ALL of us - including, i would assume, the majority of BOB pilots. It is good to know that 72 pages into this novella, we still have intelligent responeses like this here.
Miss Ion	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:48:00 - [1883] i have been playing Eve over the last 1 1/2 yrs. approximately..and i have never had so much fun. But i have also come to realize that there seems to be a pall over our great Gaming Universe..I realy feel there is no such thing as coincidence..in every Rumor there is an ounce or iota of truth. It would be a great disappointment for this issue to be ignored minimized or otherwise "side railed" simply to avoid "opening a can worms....yours truly Miss Ion
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:49:00 - [1884] Here we go again... Questions for the bandwagon *****s 1) Would it be any different if BoB wasn't supposedly involved somehow? Yes, it would be much different. I'm getting a little fed up with seeing as much bob related dirt as possible dug up without much in the way of other alliance dirt. Some semblance of impartiality would be a good thing as far as these "scandals" go. But there's definately a lack of that. It all seems rather obviously NOT* impartial. So... Why are we listening? And more importantly, why are we wanting CCP to listen to obviously not impartial sources? Did anyone notice how the http://www.digg.com/ story made it apparent that the ISD reporter guy left some bits out of his letter in their irc "log" they posted at the end of it. He said-She said to the max. Why should BoB get special treatment? Sure, good question. Why should Goons get special treatment? ... Hmm, no one considering that one? Is this how Eve is won now? Cry the loadest in out of game ways? 2) Would it be any different if Goons wasn't the offended party? Yes, it would be much different. To the person saying, "If it was my small alliance blah blah", give me a break. Goons turn on the spam-o-tron and they get CCP to respond. You think you're small alliance could do the same? Not likely. But tbfh why the heck should anyone be able to? People have got their heads spinning at max RPM because of allegations of "special treatment", but yet they are wanting that sort of thing fixed by creating situations in order to get... special treatment. As bad as allegations of inappropriate dev behavior is, I find the "Goon model" of getting satisfaction just as, if not more, offensive. Get some headlines on slashdot and get the rest of the Eve sheep bleating with you. Who cares what it does to the game as a whole. No one seems to mind this much because it's pointed at big old bad BoB. But what if... What if there came a day when BoB was no more and suddenly the Goon way was pointed at your alliance? You sure you want that sort of precedent made? I think CCP needs to clean house. But I want it to be done in a way that treats the entire house equally, not just those rooms occupied by the "winning" alliance. And I definately don't want them listening to people who want to point to only one or two rooms or listening to only the people who can "scream" the loudest. I refuse to play along with obviously politically motivated sewage slinging. Bandwagoners, why are you? ------------------- Say What?
Price Checking	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:49:00 - [1885] Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Factor Benz Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Factor Benz Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Factor Benz There was never an order given to crash any website. If you have magical "goon friends" telling you otherwise than you should probably stop listening to their sensationalist tripe. If you were in any way worth talking to I'm sure Mittani would already be doing so. Perhaps you can open a back channel via one of your multiple goon contacts. Yeah im sure it was just coincidence that 2938742398743928 different people posted in 208934023984093284 different threads a link to a goonswarm hosted file. Every single post was either by someone wearing a GS tag or a noob corp alt. Something stinks, and I think its your arguement. Ah yes, you have cleverly dismantled my arguement with reason, logic... er wait, nope just a personal attack disguised as.. something. Again, why would hundreds of posts show up within 5 minutes of eachother all from goons or from their alts? <--- is that more clear for you? I can try smaller words if that would help. And no, I'm not above flaming the **** out of you for being intentionally obtuse. I would say "you seem like an intelligent lad" to preface this, but you don't. There's a major difference between ordering a website to be crashed and people posting on said website. I don't expect you to be able to tell the difference, but I would expect someone with an ability to reason to do so. People posting on a website do not constitute an order to crash said website. When you can change logic and make it otherwise you'll have a point. Until then you'll just continue to look like a silly lil goose. I remember hearing from a Finnish goon, that there is quite a few ex-RAZOR1911, and few "known" hackers in GS. That implies to me that they KNOW how DDOS attacks can be made, and one form which I know is called forum spam. As knowing this, and "ordering" (I do NOT know if the order was given, but as the evidence is starting to come up from all around, it seems that it is concluded that there was a call that people should post) people to do such thing with their mains/alts, constitutes as a DDOS attack against the forums. So I come to my point now: There is members who knows how to DDOS in GS. There is a valid reason to suspect that these members have indulged their knowledge to those, who have the power to make people do such thing. There is a more or less proof about Login/Logoffing in middle of fights, which ALSO constitutes as DDOS attack towards LOGIN SERVER. There is proof of ships with thousands of Bookmarks in cargo, to cause tremendous lagbombs when exploding. A attack similar to DDOS, by gamemechanic flaws. SOOOO. This is my conclusion: Goons have members who know how to DDOS inside the gamemechanics, and without being directly accusable by their knowledge of internet/game structure. I Myself dispise all of those actions, and see em as a cowardly way to accomplish something nothing more than RUINING A GAME. As some of goon said: We just want to ruin the game! Hey, looks like BoB knows how to DDOS too. Guess by your logic you're just as suspect of wrongdoing as Goonswarm.
heidrun Caelli-Merced	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:51:00 - [1886] so it was true all along.BOB did have a GODbutton....how fun it is to play a game where your opponent have "cheat codes"
Metrius	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:51:00 - [1887] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Metrius All I know is that one of my mates was banned for posting a link. My ire wil not settle untill he is restored and recieves and apology for the bananation. It was a little extreme and heavy handed and makes me very displeased. You should probably quit the game over it.. that'll teach em! I would ask why you are being such a jerk, but that would probably fall on deaf ears. CCP has asked us for our opinion and I gave mine. I am not being rash or using language that would be considered rude or uncoth. I don't see your reason for personally attacking me.
Sickari	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:52:00 - [1888] i perosnally know alot of peeps that play this game because they love the comunity and ccp seems to give a rats ass about us...so ccp guess what we will do eventually....----->>>CANCEL.
Emrod Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:53:00 - [1889] Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Viktor Bout Goons go and play POTBS. In POTBS you have a Dev whos a member of SA/Goons. You are searching for an excuse to leave eve coz you ruined nearly every mmporg youve joined exept eve. You assimilated nearly every corp in your area and you still cant win this game. You cant win by blobbing and you cant win by leaving drama bombs. Zerg away... NO DAMNNIT! We're going to ruin this game if it's the last thing we do! Hmmm... And now I can see it all clearly. You are RUINING THE GAME for us all. Stop. Please. And by "Us all" you mean BoD. Cry more pleaze. Your tears make me laugh. By us all, I mean the whole EVE-ONLINE community of players. As it has been said many times b4, these un-constructive trolls and flames, are only making this thread, and for example CAOD in sense utterly disappointing. And in general the WHOLE COMMUNITY feels sick and tired of people who aims to break the community. You sir, aint helping. Eve community gonna still alive after this scandale anyways. But i am begin to think that some powerfull members of this same community have fear of something hum...but what...who know ?! And yes the communty of Eve feel sicks, true....sick about people like you trying to make morale post and try to defend cheater.Thats disgusting! We dont need to see what BOB have to say about this because we dont care about your silly opinions....we want to see the reaction of the direction of CCP and only them. We want a TRUE investigation. We want that the corrupt GM or DEv or whatever their high position in this Game can't be kick out and be judge about their silly actions against all the Eve community by take game mecanic for their personal purpose againts or for help another player/corp/alliance ingame,whatever the names! We want justice for the case for the ISD employee Raekhan who have kick out for strange reason by the intervention of some Bob ego maniacs member who take their friendly relation with some DEvs to made unsual move in this game. and finally WE PAY TO PLAY THIS GAME AND WE WANT TO KNOW WHY WE STILL CONTINUES AFTER WHEN CCP always try to denied everything! Its not about win or loose a forum war, ingame war or another personal stuff...its only because the community its sick about all of this strange behavior in the CCp team with some palyer/corp or alliance ingame. its just all about this you moron! I sell some logoff t2 module,improved forum flamming tachyon beam and Bob Lag generator faction item, contact me ingame for more info :P
Tesen	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:54:00 - [1890] You know, after reading the thread, I do have a couple questions for CCP; do you in fact believe it is appropriate for any player, whether it to be a BoB member or otherwise, to directly contact GM's or Developers via non-game mechanisms for assistance? Your answer, will determine whether or not CCP is sincere about allowing the game to flow naturally and be fair. The past T2 BPO scandal and CCP's token response did not highlight one way or another, whether CCP is serious about allowing the game to flow naturally, with out CCP staff members playing favorites (and yes, a GM/DEV responding to a MSN message for assistance is playing favorites, don't kid yourself - if it were not, then that GM or Dev would of told the IMer to use the internal petition system. If they were truely friends, the player would understand this...). If CCP is serious about preventing GM/DEV power abuse, or favorites being played, What auditing do you perform of your Dev/GM's internal game powers? Do in game actions of a GM/Dev require that action to be associated with a petition ticket? If not, why not? If it is game maintenance not related to a particular petition, what actions does CCP employ to prevent internal abuse? Does a superior at CCP create a petition and assign it to a particular GM/DEV to work on internally? If so, is the log reviewed (random audit sampling perhaps) of that staff members activities? Tes
Xroxor Minmatar Marines 5th Column	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:58:00 - [1891] Give it up folks, you'll never find out what really happened since the official "Press Release" will be candy coated to save face and help keep CCP stocks up. I really donÆt care about any of this, however it a little concerning that IÆve been playing for +2 years now and to know that CCP staff may or may not be on the up and up. Sorta gives you an unfair feeling. The following days to come will dictate if I continue to be a part of the Eve community ____________________________
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:01:00 - [1892] Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Factor Benz Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Factor Benz Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Factor Benz There was never an order given to crash any website. If you have magical "goon friends" telling you otherwise than you should probably stop listening to their sensationalist tripe. If you were in any way worth talking to I'm sure Mittani would already be doing so. Perhaps you can open a back channel via one of your multiple goon contacts. Yeah im sure it was just coincidence that 2938742398743928 different people posted in 208934023984093284 different threads a link to a goonswarm hosted file. Every single post was either by someone wearing a GS tag or a noob corp alt. Something stinks, and I think its your arguement. Ah yes, you have cleverly dismantled my arguement with reason, logic... er wait, nope just a personal attack disguised as.. something. Again, why would hundreds of posts show up within 5 minutes of eachother all from goons or from their alts? <--- is that more clear for you? I can try smaller words if that would help. And no, I'm not above flaming the **** out of you for being intentionally obtuse. I would say "you seem like an intelligent lad" to preface this, but you don't. There's a major difference between ordering a website to be crashed and people posting on said website. I don't expect you to be able to tell the difference, but I would expect someone with an ability to reason to do so. People posting on a website do not constitute an order to crash said website. When you can change logic and make it otherwise you'll have a point. Until then you'll just continue to look like a silly lil goose. I remember hearing from a Finnish goon, that there is quite a few ex-RAZOR1911, and few "known" hackers in GS. That implies to me that they KNOW how DDOS attacks can be made, and one form which I know is called forum spam. As knowing this, and "ordering" (I do NOT know if the order was given, but as the evidence is starting to come up from all around, it seems that it is concluded that there was a call that people should post) people to do such thing with their mains/alts, constitutes as a DDOS attack against the forums. So I come to my point now: There is members who knows how to DDOS in GS. There is a valid reason to suspect that these members have indulged their knowledge to those, who have the power to make people do such thing. There is a more or less proof about Login/Logoffing in middle of fights, which ALSO constitutes as DDOS attack towards LOGIN SERVER. There is proof of ships with thousands of Bookmarks in cargo, to cause tremendous lagbombs when exploding. A attack similar to DDOS, by gamemechanic flaws. SOOOO. This is my conclusion: Goons have members who know how to DDOS inside the gamemechanics, and without being directly accusable by their knowledge of internet/game structure. I Myself dispise all of those actions, and see em as a cowardly way to accomplish something nothing more than RUINING A GAME. As some of goon said: We just want to ruin the game! Wow, just wow. Every one of those accusations is wrong, baseless, and stupid. Yes, logging onto a game is a DDOS as is logging off. So is sharing bookmarks, spamming warp bubbles and fighters. Or did GS not do those last two? Why don't you try a little common sense before your vomit on your keyboard. Besides, what does any of that have to do with with the devs inserting themselves into a director level of a GS corp, rigging RP events for the profit of their friends, and firing ISD personel at the wim of a BoB IM?
Dewayne Hicks Alcohol Fueled Brutality X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:01:00 - [1893] Well all I can say is CCP, you'd better put a chain around your necks, hook it to a very powerfull truck, and yank your collective heads out of your &^%*&. Because this isn't the 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd time this kinda of thing (developer misconduct) has happened. You have lost peeps over the incidents in the past, and you're losing peeps to the newest situation. I mean your forgetting what will be coming out soon, and they have already posted in very strong language this type of thing will not be tolerated at all. What am I talking about? In a word, Infinity. Personally I have already liquidated 2 of my accounts, and have just cancelled 3 more pending the outcome and resolution of this latest incident. And like so many others, I am seriously thinking about cancelling the other 3 I have left. CCP, you guys and gals better get your act together and cleaned up, before you wake up one day and stroll into your office and find out Tranquilty has no lag issues because there is no one logged in anymore. But hey at that point, look at the bright side of things, McDonald's is always hiring :) ------------------ If You Can't Rely On Your Friends, Who Can You Rely On?
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:02:00 - [1894] Originally by: Lana Bird Do you guys at CCP actualy think one second what your actions mean to the reputation of your corporation or their identiti before you do such stupid stuff? Want to kill your own game or are you just stuck on stupid? Meh ... They are playing a game they designed the way they like it and you are paying both for the game and their salaries. It's a win-win situation for them :)
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:04:00 - [1895] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Lana Bird Do you guys at CCP actualy think one second what your actions mean to the reputation of your corporation or their identiti before you do such stupid stuff? Want to kill your own game or are you just stuck on stupid? Meh ... They are playing a game they designed the way they like it and you are paying both for the game and their salaries. It's a win-win situation for them :) Not when everyone quits in disgust. Then they won't be able to do either. --- Originally by: Blacklight To be honest
Fivo Asia	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:05:00 - [1896] Originally by: Won Swunglow I predict several more months of BoB silence to follow, allong with this all being deleted and forgoton about, until the next time it happens. Lets just face facts, were all human and open to corruption Why not! I believe SOE just deleted the last 4 years of forums retention from their past mistakes. CCP should follow the leader!
Tetsujin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:07:00 - [1897] Originally by: Shivalla I remember hearing from a Finnish goon, that there is quite a few ex-RAZOR1911, and few "known" hackers in GS. You were lied to and went on to type 15 lines of text after it, bravo.
Laelee	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:08:00 - [1898] As someone who has seen this type of witch hunt bring down a game before, I would ask that you all listen to some reason. This situation is being addressed and investigated. The information will be presented to us. When that happens you can read the results and make your decisions about your role in the game. Until then your posts demanding someone's head on a platter or threatening to never play again are just inciting riot amongst the player base. As in any riot once the crowd gets going destruction and mayhem follow. Nothing good ever comes from blood lust. Let it go for now. Play the game or don't. Just give them time to gather information and sort through the bs. This is a great game and I believe that it will continue to be one. That is unless the player base gets sucked into a flame-fest with speculation and fabrication as the weapons of choice. Don't you think they have enough to do in sorting through this mess without people adding to it?
D'Artagnan Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:08:00 - [1899] Originally by: Tharrn Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Sorry, but a 'direct MSN line to your friends at CCP' is just wrong. If they'd be professionals they'd ask you to go the way EVERYONE has to go (aka petitions) and would close the chat. End of the story. yes if you wanted to meet your friends in the pub for a pint you would send them a petition!!!!! like i said earlier probably every alliance in this game has direct contact with CCP get over it. If this was none BOB related it would be a non issuse
Abdullah al'Weyouni	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:09:00 - [1900] Originally by: Fivo Asia Why not! I believe SOE just deleted the last 4 years of forums retention from their past mistakes. CCP should follow the leader! Sisters of EVE?
Cheeba Don Viscosity	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:09:00 - [1901] I wonder how many people who has posted in this forum were affected or just love a good public lynching? Its being investigated. Deal with it. Even if the dev was at wrong, then he will be dealt with now. I can't believe people would cancel accounts over some tiny event which doesn't even affect them, and those that do cancel their accounts, go play WOW and join the plethora of whiny spoilt 10 year olds. jeez, chillax people. its a game.
Sickari	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:12:00 - [1902] Originally by: D'Artagnan Originally by: Tharrn Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. Sorry, but a 'direct MSN line to your friends at CCP' is just wrong. If they'd be professionals they'd ask you to go the way EVERYONE has to go (aka petitions) and would close the chat. End of the story. yes if you wanted to meet your friends in the pub for a pint you would send them a petition!!!!! like i said earlier probably every alliance in this game has direct contact with CCP get over it. If this was none BOB related it would be a non issuse but it is a bob related issue for the 4976 frikiest time and were sick about u and ur buddies meeting for a pint and planning a rigged game we all play.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:21:00 - [1903] Originally by: zombu2 now we have 72 pages and still nothing grow up and accept that there will be always corruption in or out of this game thats the way it is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. I don't have to put up with it anywhere else I pay money, why do I have to here?
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:22:00 - [1904] if i were wanting to do some underhanded stuff and had the ability to do it i wouldnt be doing it with a ccp named avatar. i would conjour one up and give him that power and do it all from him. implying that someone in ccp wouldnt have the brains to do this is just silly. if i wanted to smear them id make a alt with the name ccp something to give a impression of wrong doing. as for bob cheating that was delt with. as for goons crying that bobs cheating im forced to wonder if this has anything to do with the inability of goons to defend thier space. or if its about ccp stoping goons from causing node death in bob space, where thier "support" fleet would keep people that were in system from loggin in wile they jumped more members in. they will tell you this is using a game mechanic not cheating. so it comes down to bobs beating goons so goons complain to everybody that ccp is helping bob. tbh ccp loves fighting and thats what there seeing. so it would seam that one alliance taking over all of eve isnt something ccp would want. so why would ccp help bob. as to someone getting fired it takes more then someone saying they were fired for some reason for me to beleve it. if your beleving everything you read stop and think for a secound about it. there are plenty of viewpoints but i look for who has the most to gain by the slander they post. to players getting baned if there making attacks on the servers to get a crash then they deserve what they have earned. it is well known that the ccp games and fourm are linked, so an attack ment to overload one will also bring the other down. this is something goons have used befor and thats more then just words.
D'Artagnan Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:23:00 - [1905] Edited by: D''Artagnan on 26/05/2007 19:27:06 Originally by: Tetsujin Originally by: D'Artagnan If this was none BOB related it would be a non issuse You are deluded. There are 76 pages of people posting their opinions and concerns and I'm sure many of them don't care which group is involved, only that there is a potential involvement. No you are deluded 50 pages of this post are your allaince mates posting on alt, trust me i have seen this a long time before you eve started plaing eve from my own alliance about how bob cheat etc, sooner or later you will understand they beat you because they are better. Edit: Dear GS If you had bothered to read my last post you would know that its not just only Bob that have direct access to GMs its most alliances in this game but you decided to ignore that!!!!
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:24:00 - [1906] Originally by: Damon Ra Edited by: Damon Ra on 26/05/2007 19:20:12 Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. ORLY? What about the first thread that appeared here in the forums yesterday that was immediately removed and the bans that were handed out to anyone who even mentioned this issue here or in-game? So you are saying no threads were deleted (censored), and no one was banned (silenced)? Wasn't it exactly the the censorship and attempt to silence players that unleashed the threadnaught and created the necessity for this, a now epic thread? I have no affiliation to any side of this debate, but I was whorum foring when this all went down yesterday and saw exactly how CCP handled things. If you want to convince me that CCP does not attempt to censor or silence its customers, I want some of that kool-aid they are giving you first. This bears repeating. *THE THREADNAUGHT DID NOT BEGIN UNTIL A CAREFULLY WORDED, SINGLE POST WAS DELETED OUT OF HAND*
Kw4h Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:24:00 - [1907] Originally by: Fubarski If boB was concerned about what was building at that POS, I'm pretty sure they'd know. So the whole "dev" jumping into the corp to fix something could have been exactly that. Regardless of if it was requested, noticed or not, looking over the game IS their job. On top of that, someone with "real ultimate power" wouldn't even need to join the corp to see any in game information. No, really... They wouldn't have to worry about fiddling with roles, or even load the game to do so. This kind of over-dramatization, without proper reasoning, or thought processes behind it remind me more, and more, every single day, of the WoW forums. Maybe... just maybe... the Dev was actually, you know... fixing a bug. And it could have been a bug you didn't see yourselves. Fubar There's 2 sides on this. Because of them being a dev, they don't need to be in a corp to fix a bug. And if that's the case, what DID he do in that corp? Because he's a dev, he doesn't need to be in that corp to find out the info he needs. I'm actually confused now. _ Planet Sight Wallpaper - EvE map
Ce Domina	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:25:00 - [1908] While I'm not quitting over this, I know several people who have. I'm tired of seeing these scandals break. However, its not the goons fault for posting it, its CCP's fault for letting it happen. Get your employees in line, or else we'll just be repeating this dance again in 3 months.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:25:00 - [1909] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 19:27:07 Originally by: D'Artagnan Originally by: Tetsujin Originally by: D'Artagnan If this was none BOB related it would be a non issuse You are deluded. There are 76 pages of people posting their opinions and concerns and I'm sure many of them don't care which group is involved, only that there is a potential involvement. No you are deluded 50 pages of this post are your allaince mates posting on alt, trust me i have seen this a long time before you eve started plaing eve from my own alliance about how bob cheat etc, sooner or later you will understand they beat you because they are better. So anyone who posts here who disagrees with you is a goon? How do you know this? The sad thing about this is that the last sentence is right. BoB does seem to be better. Too bad that doesn't matter anymore and never will. The goons will never "sooner or later understand," because in their minds you guys are cheaters. The jury is still out, but it certainly seems more likely than not.
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:26:00 - [1910] CCP : Also do you notice any "lag" or anything that hinders your game play? Greatest joke ever... the only problem is that posts will be deleted constantly.
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:28:00 - [1911] I think the Goons are just DRAMA queens. End of story.
Midgath Stallsman GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:28:00 - [1912] Originally by: Fubarski If boB was concerned about what was building at that POS, I'm pretty sure they'd know. So the whole "dev" jumping into the corp to fix something could have been exactly that. Regardless of if it was requested, noticed or not, looking over the game IS their job. On top of that, someone with "real ultimate power" wouldn't even need to join the corp to see any in game information. No, really... They wouldn't have to worry about fiddling with roles, or even load the game to do so. This kind of over-dramatization, without proper reasoning, or thought processes behind it remind me more, and more, every single day, of the WoW forums. Maybe... just maybe... the Dev was actually, you know... fixing a bug. And it could have been a bug you didn't see yourselves. Fubar Yes, that is a possibility, However wouldn't it have been easier to inform the directors of corp why you are joining and what you are fixing before or as you are doing it? If it was something that simple I am sure CCP would have made a statement about that portion of the claims. o.0
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:29:00 - [1913] Edited by: Bartholomeus Crane on 26/05/2007 19:29:45 Arkanon asked us for time so he can give us an answer to the allegations. Given previous experience I don't expect it to be an answer I'm gonna like. I'm willing to give him, and thus CCP, a chance though. A last one. I just paid for this month. I'll only be logging on to switch skills, I'm setting long ones. If I don't like Arkanon's answer it will be my last month. There's nothing I dislike more than cheaters, and I don't see the need to play in a rigged game. Maybe it is time to move on ... --
D'Artagnan Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:31:00 - [1914] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 19:27:07 Originally by: D'Artagnan Originally by: Tetsujin Originally by: D'Artagnan If this was none BOB related it would be a non issuse You are deluded. There are 76 pages of people posting their opinions and concerns and I'm sure many of them don't care which group is involved, only that there is a potential involvement. No you are deluded 50 pages of this post are your allaince mates posting on alt, trust me i have seen this a long time before you eve started plaing eve from my own alliance about how bob cheat etc, sooner or later you will understand they beat you because they are better. So anyone who posts here who disagrees with you is a goon? How do you know this? The sad thing about this is that the last sentence is right. BoB does seem to be better. Too bad that doesn't matter anymore and never will. The goons will never "sooner or later understand," because in their minds you guys are cheaters. The jury is still out, but it certainly seems more likely than not. ok as you have been around for under 24 hours i will ignore your pointless comments.
DoctorBautz	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:31:00 - [1915] Since i am quite new to the game at all i hope for for ccp and bob that all the accusations are false in the end. CCP would use reputation and bob would loose it too. all the stuff about bob beeing good organized and good pvpers and good tacticians would be blown to dust if thoose things reveal themselves as true. how could you be excited and proud of yourselves when you allways got the shadows of cheating above your head? from my point of view bob might be good enough and proud enough to win the fights without the devs. just imagine using trainers in the old c64 times... you can win the game but without any fun in the end. since you wont get payed for winning the game i think bob is playing this game for fun as we all do. in the end all of us want to pew pew and be superior by using good tactics setups and teamplay. to rule a game via cheating wont be fun for bob too i think. if there is something like devs helping bob they would basicly hurt themselves. every won battle would end be reminded as: " well the devs helped " . this wont help the morale nor the tactical discipline. but never the less this case needs to be investigated. when i would be within bob and fight with honor and without all the meta stuff and then all my reputation would go to dust cause of some guys feeling the need for dev help i would be officaly ****ed. the biggest pleasure you can get in this game is to win a fight due to a good teamplay a good tactic and stuff. When you just want to be the "UBER" you should defintaly go to some singleplayer games since form my point of view a mmo is ment to be a group experience and not a one man show at all. concusion: for me winning by cheating is not winning and i think it is no win for the bobs or goons as well. i know game ethics arent standart, but me myself woudnt even use any game mechanic like posbowling or all the other still legal things which were never ment to be possible. i thought eve is a game which is more for the grown up ppl, but sometimes i doubt it. wait for an offical announcement from ccp. analyse it compare, then draw your conclusions.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:32:00 - [1916] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Edited by: Bartholomeus Crane on 26/05/2007 19:29:45 Arkanon asked us for time so he can give us an answer to the allegations. Given previous experience I don't expect it to be an answer I'm gonna like. I'm willing to give him, and thus CCP, a chance though. A last one. I just paid for this month. I'll only be logging on to switch skills, I'm setting long ones. If I don't like Arkanon's answer it will be my last month. There's nothing I dislike more than cheaters, and I don't see the need to play in a rigged game. Maybe it is time to move on ... Will "we are investigating the issue but preliminary reports indicate nothing is wrong, the issue is closed" be satisfactory to you?
Rockbox Exit 13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:33:00 - [1917] Originally by: nickky01 Edited by: nickky01 on 26/05/2007 15:12:39 Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. from here This **** Exploads in Exit 13
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:33:00 - [1918] Originally by: D'Artagnan Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 19:27:07 Originally by: D'Artagnan Originally by: Tetsujin Originally by: D'Artagnan If this was none BOB related it would be a non issuse You are deluded. There are 76 pages of people posting their opinions and concerns and I'm sure many of them don't care which group is involved, only that there is a potential involvement. No you are deluded 50 pages of this post are your allaince mates posting on alt, trust me i have seen this a long time before you eve started plaing eve from my own alliance about how bob cheat etc, sooner or later you will understand they beat you because they are better. So anyone who posts here who disagrees with you is a goon? How do you know this? The sad thing about this is that the last sentence is right. BoB does seem to be better. Too bad that doesn't matter anymore and never will. The goons will never "sooner or later understand," because in their minds you guys are cheaters. The jury is still out, but it certainly seems more likely than not. ok as you have been around for under 24 hours i will ignore your pointless comments. My main character (I am not even a goon) got banned for posting in one of the early threadnaught threads, asking if it was true. How long would it take to respond to my short and quick points? You're a disgrace.
Den en0gde	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:36:00 - [1919] so the corruption still goes on , how surprising. or not
Shivalla Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:36:00 - [1920] Originally by: Emrod Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Viktor Bout Goons go and play POTBS. In POTBS you have a Dev whos a member of SA/Goons. You are searching for an excuse to leave eve coz you ruined nearly every mmporg youve joined exept eve. You assimilated nearly every corp in your area and you still cant win this game. You cant win by blobbing and you cant win by leaving drama bombs. Zerg away... NO DAMNNIT! We're going to ruin this game if it's the last thing we do! Hmmm... And now I can see it all clearly. You are RUINING THE GAME for us all. Stop. Please. And by "Us all" you mean BoD. Cry more pleaze. Your tears make me laugh. By us all, I mean the whole EVE-ONLINE community of players. As it has been said many times b4, these un-constructive trolls and flames, are only making this thread, and for example CAOD in sense utterly disappointing. And in general the WHOLE COMMUNITY feels sick and tired of people who aims to break the community. You sir, aint helping. Eve community gonna still alive after this scandale anyways. But i am begin to think that some powerfull members of this same community have fear of something hum...but what...who know ?! And yes the communty of Eve feel sicks, true....sick about people like you trying to make morale post and try to defend cheater.Thats disgusting! We dont need to see what BOB have to say about this because we dont care about your silly opinions....we want to see the reaction of the direction of CCP and only them. We want a TRUE investigation. We want that the corrupt GM or DEv or whatever their high position in this Game can't be kick out and be judge about their silly actions against all the Eve community by take game mecanic for their personal purpose againts or for help another player/corp/alliance ingame,whatever the names! We want justice for the case for the ISD employee Raekhan who have kick out for strange reason by the intervention of some Bob ego maniacs member who take their friendly relation with some DEvs to made unsual move in this game. and finally WE PAY TO PLAY THIS GAME AND WE WANT TO KNOW WHY WE STILL CONTINUES AFTER WHEN CCP always try to denied everything! Its not about win or loose a forum war, ingame war or another personal stuff...its only because the community its sick about all of this strange behavior in the CCp team with some palyer/corp or alliance ingame. its just all about this you moron! Ok, so now you refer on starting to calling people moron. I did what I think was appropriate to adress a thing which seemed like a proper way to approach the situation, saying: That this dirt throwing and calling names, and trolling/flaming isnt helping. And how do you respond. You do the thing which actually is the fricking plaque. You refer to troll/flame, and call names. Sorry, but I dont have much sympathy for people like you.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:37:00 - [1921] So anyone who posts here who disagrees with you is a goon? How do you know this? There. want to ignore me? I fully agee with this statement. it's just sad that your right in a way, there are quite a good number of goons posting with alts. but all of them? don't make me laugh
Tananda Vaakaja	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:37:00 - [1922] Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi again. While I fully understand that people want information and answers to their questions, please consider that there is still considerable work to be done in compiling and investigating the various allegations posted in this thread and elsewhere. Updates will be posted as we go on, I simply can not guarantee exactly when we'll have this matter sewn up and ready as a coherent report. I will report in as often as I can, provided there are confirmed news to share with you. There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. Fair enough... I actually do have some faith in Arkannon. he's been at least honest to date.. we'll see what falls out I guess. pray that it solves this mess
Price Checking	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:37:00 - [1923] If you aren't with BoB/CCP, you're a goon. Obviously.
Obron Mettlo Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:38:00 - [1924] Edited by: Obron Mettlo on 26/05/2007 19:39:02 Edited by: Obron Mettlo on 26/05/2007 19:38:20 Originally by: D'Artagnan Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 19:27:07 Originally by: D'Artagnan Originally by: Tetsujin Originally by: D'Artagnan If this was none BOB related it would be a non issuse You are deluded. There are 76 pages of people posting their opinions and concerns and I'm sure many of them don't care which group is involved, only that there is a potential involvement. No you are deluded 50 pages of this post are your allaince mates posting on alt, trust me i have seen this a long time before you eve started plaing eve from my own alliance about how bob cheat etc, sooner or later you will understand they beat you because they are better. So anyone who posts here who disagrees with you is a goon? How do you know this? The sad thing about this is that the last sentence is right. BoB does seem to be better. Too bad that doesn't matter anymore and never will. The goons will never "sooner or later understand," because in their minds you guys are cheaters. The jury is still out, but it certainly seems more likely than not. ok as you have been around for under 24 hours i will ignore your pointless comments. If CCP wasn't issuing 3-day in-game bans for people who post ONCE constructively and who have never been issued a warning before, people would not feel the need to alt-post or do the trial-account posting trick. There is a thread on our forums where people list their bans so this is not just an isolated incident either. Quote: I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Quoting this from Arkanon so I don't get banned too.
Svaha Norbu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:40:00 - [1925] Originally by: Karlemgne The whole premise is not that CCP needs to play the game to find bugs. If CCP is anything like any other MMO company (and it is or EVE wouldn't work period) there is a full-time QA staff numbering at least 30 who do nothing but look for bugs. I think the argument is, not to give it merit because I disagree with it, that CCP needs its staff to play the game so they can have first hand information about game balancing, as well as putting themselves in a better position to understand how they'd like to change and improve the game in the future. -Karlemgne Again, this is great in theory, but how many balance issues have you seen patched lately? Even less than bug fixes.
Letti Casta	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:40:00 - [1926] Edited by: Letti Casta on 26/05/2007 19:42:42 wow, looks like this subject has caught the attention of some gaming news sites http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=75215 Edited by: Letti Casta on 26/05/2007 19:40:29 wow, looks like this subject has caught the attention of some gaming news sites http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=75215 http://www.gamese****ch.com/2007/02/eve_online_trouble_in_deep_spa.php http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/68591-Jumpgate-EVEs-Devs-and-the-Friends-They-Keep http://digg.com/gaming_news/EVE_Online_Trouble_in_Deep_Space_Corruption_in_MMORPG http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/68591-Jumpgate-EVEs-Devs-and-the-Friends-They-Keep http://digg.com/gaming_news/EVE_Online_Trouble_in_Deep_Space_Corruption_in_MMORPG
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:41:00 - [1927] Originally by: D'Artagnan Originally by: Elmo Noguchi So anyone who posts here who disagrees with you is a goon? How do you know this? The sad thing about this is that the last sentence is right. BoB does seem to be better. Too bad that doesn't matter anymore and never will. The goons will never "sooner or later understand," because in their minds you guys are cheaters. The jury is still out, but it certainly seems more likely than not. ok as you have been around for under 24 hours i will ignore your pointless comments. Drop the Ad Hominems and you might be taken more seriously... -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:41:00 - [1928] Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi again. While I fully understand that people want information and answers to their questions, please consider that there is still considerable work to be done in compiling and investigating the various allegations posted in this thread and elsewhere. Updates will be posted as we go on, I simply can not guarantee exactly when we'll have this matter sewn up and ready as a coherent report. I will report in as often as I can, provided there are confirmed news to share with you. There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. I wish you'd left that part out, friend. Try being someone who had their account banned for mentioning the open letter to CCP in game. Try mentioning this event anywhere but this thread, conveniently tucked away in the least-travelled forum. Try being everyone who you tried to silence and failed before and during the threadnaught.
Novina Agrari	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:42:00 - [1929] Another thing I'd love to hear the answer to: Is threatening to call up some CCP "friends" to handle a problem with another player, fair game in EVE? If so, please let me know - I love to metagame as much as the next person, and will be using the tactic accordingly! If not - and let's face it, citing dev connections to intimidate people and staff seems like a violation - can you please let us know when the offending characters will be disciplined? Thanks! (By the way: Tell that 'you are ruining the image of ISD and CCP the company!!!!!!' genius that coming off as being at the beck and call of an alliance oft accused of CCP favoritism does a lot more to 'ruin the image' of CCP than being curt with some short-tempered kids who are freaking out that maybe a dread was bumped once.)
justcheckingthemarket	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:48:00 - [1930] Originally by: Letti Casta wow, looks like this subject has caught the attention of some gaming news sites only farir enough. actually it certainly IS ccp's falut that there is so much mistrust among the playing community, now they gotta pay the price for it. they should be very happy if it will only be a little bit of bad publicity!
Sickari	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:48:00 - [1931] wtf??!! in what world these bobits live? the frikin police cant have drinks with the crooks dammit as long as we pay them to behave like professionals...if they want pints with bobits leave game behind and go play buddies
Tholarim Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:51:00 - [1932] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Haptic Fowl Originally by: Jeff Drake Most likely, the only thing that will emerge out of this event is a very long forum thread. That's common PR practice- "containment": Give the standard "We are on it" message and let the angry voices vent in a secure and monitored environment. The problem here is that its not just played out in this forum - the goons are trying to discredit the game by publishing it widely on the net: snip CCP is making it really easy for the goons to scorch the game before quitting like the sore losers they are. Well, about Goons publishing it outside of Eve, there is a good explanation. There are different aspects of customer 'management' that come into play here, one is churn rate. Churn rate is about the rate at which people leave the game. Some CCP guy once said EVE retained subscribers for an average of something like 7 or 9 months. That means that with what, 170k subscribers, they would lose about 20.000 a month and get 20.000 new ones. Anyway, the exact number is not important. Now when you want to get someone's attention, you have to make sure they notice you. A guy sitting at his computer in England screaming at a Dev in Iceland won't get noticed. He will get noticed a bit more when he posts on the Eve internal forums. But there, he is only potentially affecting people who are already subscribed/hooked to the game. For him to make the biggest impact, and thus the biggest chance of actually getting noticed by CCP, its smartest to go outside of the forums. Potential new subscribers, not hooked on the game, potentially interested. If you can reach those and turn them off from the game CCP will feel the biggest impact. Its just how the system works. And it works the same with every MMO out there. SOE never reacted to criticism seriously when it was on their own forum, they only started to react when it spilled out of their private forums onto Gamezone and other sites. You don't see what's so sad about this whole ordeal? Everyone in the alliance warfare side of things plays this game to win. The goons have realised that they cannot win by beating us ingame, simply becus we beat them on the field. I'm sure this will be blaimed on devh4x and cheating and all sorts, but in the end no amount of cheating would make a **** alliance a really good one. Not without it being blatently obvious. And in all fairness i have not seen any solid proof for the bob accusations once again. So far all i have seen is some very circumstancial evidence with the only amount of proof being the timing of it. Now I know ppl in goonswarm which i have flown with in the past (being mostly BOS guys), and i would be shocked down to the bone if those people even believed me or any1 in my corp (orange species) had to call in any kind of CCP favours to get some annoying ISD guy fired. And ontop of it announce it in local so you guys knew we had a direct line to CCP? no1 believes that i hope? rofl And would an ISD get fired over something like this? I doubt it. I think there is something else that he maybe forgot to mention to you guys. Since all the people crying hax are assuming the story they hear from a disgruntled ISD member to be true, without any substantial proof being supplied what so ever. IT's why we have courts in RL, since one side of the story is not always true, the other sides story might be true as well, but sadly in eve the only truth comes from kugutsumen and goonswarm. Yes there was a t20 incident, ccp owned up to it eventually. If there was an incident here, ccp will own up to it to. the only thing happening here is goons trying to discredit the game only so they get to save their face and say: "look BOB only beat us tcus there was DEVS helping em!!" They can keep trying to bring us down, we don't care, but all i hope for is that they don't destroy a brilliant game trying to do just that.
Countess Markievicz	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:52:00 - [1933] As someone who is about to join EVE, I can have, and do not have an opinion as to the truth of the allegations. However, I want to believe that the company will follow the correct procedures and act accordingly. If the allegations are proved to be correct, then, just as with the disciplinary procedures in the company I work for, I would not expect to hear the names of those involved, but would expect that we would be given an overview of the outcome and how the alleged abuses are to be prevented in future. The company needs to, and indeed must be seen to do the right thing, to earn the right to be believed, trusted and respected.
Hcraes Er Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:53:00 - [1934] Since any negative posts seem to be marked for deletion in minutes, I will stick to HAPPY THOUGHTS, HAPPY THOUGHTS, DEVS NOT CORRUPT, DEVS NOT CORRUPT, NOSSIR. ALL HAIL CCP. PLEASE, CHEAT AND TAKE OUR SPACE! WAIT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE YOU DON'T CHEAT. HAPPY THOUGHTS. HAPPY THOUGHTS...
anta baka	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:55:00 - [1935] Edited by: anta baka on 26/05/2007 19:54:24 Originally by: Tholarim You don't see what's so sad about this whole ordeal? Everyone in the alliance warfare side of things plays this game to win. The goons have realised that they cannot win by beating us ingame, simply becus we beat them on the field. I'm sure this will be blaimed on devh4x and cheating and all sorts, but in the end no amount of cheating would make a **** alliance a really good one. Not without it being blatently obvious. And in all fairness i have not seen any solid proof for the bob accusations once again. So far all i have seen is some very circumstancial evidence with the only amount of proof being the timing of it. Now I know ppl in goonswarm which i have flown with in the past (being mostly BOS guys), and i would be shocked down to the bone if those people even believed me or any1 in my corp (orange species) had to call in any kind of CCP favours to get some annoying ISD guy fired. And ontop of it announce it in local so you guys knew we had a direct line to CCP? no1 believes that i hope? rofl And would an ISD get fired over something like this? I doubt it. I think there is something else that he maybe forgot to mention to you guys. Since all the people crying hax are assuming the story they hear from a disgruntled ISD member to be true, without any substantial proof being supplied what so ever. IT's why we have courts in RL, since one side of the story is not always true, the other sides story might be true as well, but sadly in eve the only truth comes from kugutsumen and goonswarm. Yes there was a t20 incident, ccp owned up to it eventually. If there was an incident here, ccp will own up to it to. the only thing happening here is goons trying to discredit the game only so they get to save their face and say: "look BOB only beat us tcus there was DEVS helping em!!" They can keep trying to bring us down, we don't care, but all i hope for is that they don't destroy a brilliant game trying to do just that. sore losers eh?
Natas Dog Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:55:00 - [1936] Edited by: Natas Dog on 26/05/2007 19:54:37 Originally by: Tholarim You don't see what's so sad about this whole ordeal? Everyone in the alliance warfare side of things plays this game to win. The goons have realised that they cannot win by beating us ingame, simply becus we beat them on the field. I'm sure this will be blaimed on devh4x and cheating and all sorts, but in the end no amount of cheating would make a **** alliance a really good one. Not without it being blatently obvious. And in all fairness i have not seen any solid proof for the bob accusations once again. So far all i have seen is some very circumstancial evidence with the only amount of proof being the timing of it. Now I know ppl in goonswarm which i have flown with in the past (being mostly BOS guys), and i would be shocked down to the bone if those people even believed me or any1 in my corp (orange species) had to call in any kind of CCP favours to get some annoying ISD guy fired. And ontop of it announce it in local so you guys knew we had a direct line to CCP? no1 believes that i hope? rofl And would an ISD get fired over something like this? I doubt it. I think there is something else that he maybe forgot to mention to you guys. Since all the people crying hax are assuming the story they hear from a disgruntled ISD member to be true, without any substantial proof being supplied what so ever. IT's why we have courts in RL, since one side of the story is not always true, the other sides story might be true as well, but sadly in eve the only truth comes from kugutsumen and goonswarm. Yes there was a t20 incident, ccp owned up to it eventually. If there was an incident here, ccp will own up to it to. the only thing happening here is goons trying to discredit the game only so they get to save their face and say: "look BOB only beat us tcus there was DEVS helping em!!" They can keep trying to bring us down, we don't care, but all i hope for is that they don't destroy a brilliant game trying to do just Did you see any solid proof of the bob accusations when the t20 incident came to light? A lot of people were singing the exact same song then too; it's getting to be like groundhog day around here. _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last... is usually the one the joke was about.
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:55:00 - [1937] Edited by: ToxicFire on 26/05/2007 19:55:24 Last time I was with the general community on issues like this, this time around im with CCP, heck this time even if the ISD is corrupt i'd be with CCP, why because of the way goons released the info, if they'd have posted perhaps once or twice in a formal manner not made a big deal about it people would have listened, yet because of the way it was handled most people now don't give a toss about the issue. I notice no ones brought up the issue of dev's who might be in the goons. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
Price Checking	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:58:00 - [1938] Edited by: Price Checking on 26/05/2007 19:58:13 Originally by: ToxicFire Edited by: ToxicFire on 26/05/2007 19:55:24 Last time I was with the general community on issues like this, this time around im with CCP, heck this time even if the ISD is corrupt i'd be with CCP, why because of the way goons released the info, if they'd have posted perhaps once or twice in a formal manner not made a big deal about it people would have listened, yet because of the way it was handled most people now don't give a toss about the issue. I notice no ones brought up the issue of dev's who might be in the goons. They did. The formal well-worded post was deleted out of hand. Hence Threadnaught and game site news. edit: as far as anyone knows there are no devs in goonswarm and if there are, they're smart enough not to do stupid **** like cheat. If you have evidence to the contrary please speak up.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:59:00 - [1939] Originally by: Tholarim And in all fairness i have not seen any solid proof for the bob accusations once again. So far all i have seen is some very circumstancial evidence with the only amount of proof being the timing of it. Now I know ppl in goonswarm which i have flown with in the past (being mostly BOS guys), and i would be shocked down to the bone if those people even believed me or any1 in my corp (orange species) had to call in any kind of CCP favours to get some annoying ISD guy fired. And ontop of it announce it in local so you guys knew we had a direct line to CCP? no1 believes that i hope? rofl Dianabolic admitted in this thread that you have inappropriate connections with CCP that others don't. Who to believe, if not your chief diplomat? Quote: And would an ISD get fired over something like this? I doubt it. I think there is something else that he maybe forgot to mention to you guys. Since all the people crying hax are assuming the story they hear from a disgruntled ISD member to be true, without any substantial proof being supplied what so ever. IT's why we have courts in RL, since one side of the story is not always true, the other sides story might be true as well, but sadly in eve the only truth comes from kugutsumen and goonswarm. Yes there was a t20 incident, ccp owned up to it eventually. If there was an incident here, ccp will own up to it to. Think hard now- what caused CCP to own up to it last time? Only a massive player outcry and push from the community, a lot like we're experiencing now, isn't it? Quote: the only thing happening here is goons trying to discredit the game only so they get to save their face and say: "look BOB only beat us tcus there was DEVS helping em!!" They can keep trying to bring us down, we don't care, but all i hope for is that they don't destroy a brilliant game trying to do just that. Goons ALREADY say that since T20. Why would they need to do it again? They've invested more time and money than anyone, they don't want to destroy the game. The only destruction I can see coming from this is the destruction of inappropriate relationships or the appearance of inappropriate relationships. How does pushing these allegations into the open 'destroy the game?'
Ragnar Black Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 19:59:00 - [1940] Originally by: Tesen You know, after reading the thread, I do have a couple questions for CCP; do you in fact believe it is appropriate for any player, whether it to be a BoB member or otherwise, to directly contact GM's or Developers via non-game mechanisms for assistance? Your answer, will determine whether or not CCP is sincere about allowing the game to flow naturally and be fair. The past T2 BPO scandal and CCP's token response did not highlight one way or another, whether CCP is serious about allowing the game to flow naturally, with out CCP staff members playing favorites (and yes, a GM/DEV responding to a MSN message for assistance is playing favorites, don't kid yourself - if it were not, then that GM or Dev would of told the IMer to use the internal petition system. If they were truely friends, the player would understand this...). If CCP is serious about preventing GM/DEV power abuse, or favorites being played, What auditing do you perform of your Dev/GM's internal game powers? Do in game actions of a GM/Dev require that action to be associated with a petition ticket? If not, why not? If it is game maintenance not related to a particular petition, what actions does CCP employ to prevent internal abuse? Does a superior at CCP create a petition and assign it to a particular GM/DEV to work on internally? If so, is the log reviewed (random audit sampling perhaps) of that staff members activities? Tes Great post one of the best To CCP I look forward to reading Pc games mag's about this saw the T20 in PCGAMER and PCZONE.
Cory Trevor The Lawn Wranglers	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:00:00 - [1941] Originally by: ToxicFire if they'd have posted perhaps once or twice in a formal manner not made a big deal about it people would have listened, yet because of the way it was handled most people now don't give a toss about the issue. They tried that, the simple single post was deleted instantly. It's a safe bet the Goons knew that was going to happen, but still, when their only options are "email CCP and hope/pray that it all works out" and "cause enough of a ****storm to force a response", it's easy to see why they went with #2, since the level of passive you'd need to even kid yourself into thinking the first option was worth bothering with would mean you probably didn't care about this issue in the first place.
Tholarim Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:01:00 - [1942] Originally by: Natas Dog Edited by: Natas Dog on 26/05/2007 19:54:37 Originally by: Tholarim You don't see what's so sad about this whole ordeal? Everyone in the alliance warfare side of things plays this game to win. The goons have realised that they cannot win by beating us ingame, simply becus we beat them on the field. I'm sure this will be blaimed on devh4x and cheating and all sorts, but in the end no amount of cheating would make a ** alliance a really good one. Not without it being blatently obvious. And in all fairness i have not seen any solid proof for the bob accusations once again. So far all i have seen is some very circumstancial evidence with the only amount of proof being the timing of it. Now I know ppl in goonswarm which i have flown with in the past (being mostly BOS guys), and i would be shocked down to the bone if those people even believed me or any1 in my corp (orange species) had to call in any kind of CCP favours to get some annoying ISD guy fired. And ontop of it announce it in local so you guys knew we had a direct line to CCP? no1 believes that i hope? rofl And would an ISD get fired over something like this? I doubt it. I think there is something else that he maybe forgot to mention to you guys. Since all the people crying hax are assuming the story they hear from a disgruntled ISD member to be true, without any substantial proof being supplied what so ever. IT's why we have courts in RL, since one side of the story is not always true, the other sides story might be true as well, but sadly in eve the only truth comes from kugutsumen and goonswarm. Yes there was a t20 incident, ccp owned up to it eventually. If there was an incident here, ccp will own up to it to. the only thing happening here is goons trying to discredit the game only so they get to save their face and say: "look BOB only beat us tcus there was DEVS helping em!!" They can keep trying to bring us down, we don't care, but all i hope for is that they don't destroy a brilliant game trying to do just Did you see any solid proof of the bob accusations when the t20 incident came to light? A lot of people were singing the exact same song then too; it's getting to be like groundhog day around here. so it's true now, becus it was true then? I applaud your logic. Since in short you just said that any accusation involving bob would be true, without any evidence what so ***** ever. There's the typical mob mentality for you.
Price Checking	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:04:00 - [1943] Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: Natas Dog Edited by: Natas Dog on 26/05/2007 19:54:37 Originally by: Tholarim You don't see what's so sad about this whole ordeal? Everyone in the alliance warfare side of things plays this game to win. The goons have realised that they cannot win by beating us ingame, simply becus we beat them on the field. I'm sure this will be blaimed on devh4x and cheating and all sorts, but in the end no amount of cheating would make a ** alliance a really good one. Not without it being blatently obvious. And in all fairness i have not seen any solid proof for the bob accusations once again. So far all i have seen is some very circumstancial evidence with the only amount of proof being the timing of it. Now I know ppl in goonswarm which i have flown with in the past (being mostly BOS guys), and i would be shocked down to the bone if those people even believed me or any1 in my corp (orange species) had to call in any kind of CCP favours to get some annoying ISD guy fired. And ontop of it announce it in local so you guys knew we had a direct line to CCP? no1 believes that i hope? rofl And would an ISD get fired over something like this? I doubt it. I think there is something else that he maybe forgot to mention to you guys. Since all the people crying hax are assuming the story they hear from a disgruntled ISD member to be true, without any substantial proof being supplied what so ever. IT's why we have courts in RL, since one side of the story is not always true, the other sides story might be true as well, but sadly in eve the only truth comes from kugutsumen and goonswarm. Yes there was a t20 incident, ccp owned up to it eventually. If there was an incident here, ccp will own up to it to. the only thing happening here is goons trying to discredit the game only so they get to save their face and say: "look BOB only beat us tcus there was DEVS helping em!!" They can keep trying to bring us down, we don't care, but all i hope for is that they don't destroy a brilliant game trying to do just Did you see any solid proof of the bob accusations when the t20 incident came to light? A lot of people were singing the exact same song then too; it's getting to be like groundhog day around here. so it's true now, becus it was true then? I applaud your logic. Since in short you just said that any accusation involving bob would be true, without any evidence what so ***** ever. There's the typical mob mentality for you. It's true now because Dianabolic admitted to it. Think about it.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:04:00 - [1944] Don't just respond to the easy ones, now... Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Tholarim And in all fairness i have not seen any solid proof for the bob accusations once again. So far all i have seen is some very circumstancial evidence with the only amount of proof being the timing of it. Now I know ppl in goonswarm which i have flown with in the past (being mostly BOS guys), and i would be shocked down to the bone if those people even believed me or any1 in my corp (orange species) had to call in any kind of CCP favours to get some annoying ISD guy fired. And ontop of it announce it in local so you guys knew we had a direct line to CCP? no1 believes that i hope? rofl Dianabolic admitted in this thread that you have inappropriate connections with CCP that others don't. Who to believe, if not your chief diplomat? Quote: And would an ISD get fired over something like this? I doubt it. I think there is something else that he maybe forgot to mention to you guys. Since all the people crying hax are assuming the story they hear from a disgruntled ISD member to be true, without any substantial proof being supplied what so ever. IT's why we have courts in RL, since one side of the story is not always true, the other sides story might be true as well, but sadly in eve the only truth comes from kugutsumen and goonswarm. Yes there was a t20 incident, ccp owned up to it eventually. If there was an incident here, ccp will own up to it to. Think hard now- what caused CCP to own up to it last time? Only a massive player outcry and push from the community, a lot like we're experiencing now, isn't it? Quote: the only thing happening here is goons trying to discredit the game only so they get to save their face and say: "look BOB only beat us tcus there was DEVS helping em!!" They can keep trying to bring us down, we don't care, but all i hope for is that they don't destroy a brilliant game trying to do just that. Goons ALREADY say that since T20. Why would they need to do it again? They've invested more time and money than anyone, they don't want to destroy the game. The only destruction I can see coming from this is the destruction of inappropriate relationships or the appearance of inappropriate relationships. How does pushing these allegations into the open 'destroy the game?'
NereSky Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:07:00 - [1945] Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Haptic Fowl Originally by: Jeff Drake Most likely, the only thing that will emerge out of this event is a very long forum thread. That's common PR practice- "containment": Give the standard "We are on it" message and let the angry voices vent in a secure and monitored environment. The problem here is that its not just played out in this forum - the goons are trying to discredit the game by publishing it widely on the net: Utter Drivel What ever proof is shown you and your Band of whatevers will deny it, if this gets swept under the carpet again , you lot won't be able to help yourself and yet again you will behave in a manner to bring more shame i would say 'just leave' and salvage some honour from this debacle' but you wont you will keep denying it try to misdirect and attempt to get away with it until all what will be left is a game developers alliance playing with yourselves. where can you hide you heads in shame now? back in the sand or CCP HQ?
Tolarus Aonyma	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:08:00 - [1946] Regardless of the outcome, unfortunately this now in the court of public opinion. I believe CCP when they say they will not tolerate any type of manipulation by members of the team, and I believe them when they say they will have zero tolerance for this kind of behavior from their employees. The last thing CCP would want to happen is anger the player base, the paying subscribers. We bring CCP a ton of money every month so anyone claiming that the entire development team is behind some shady deals to support BoB isn't seeing the whole picture. All we can do is wait and see what happens, I have faith that CCP will 'do the right thing' in this recent incident to make things right or at least offer a complete and very detailed explanation of what happened and why. Once there are doubts among players it's going to be an uphill climb to regain trust from those effected by it. I myself am rather indifferent at the moment, but I do not feel this is a widespread conspiracy cover up in the least. If the past has anything to prove it shows that CCP is very concerned with the player base, more so than any other mmo out there. They listen to us and make changes based on what we have to say. Still you cant please all the people all the time. The bad reputation that this has caused is based on the previous incident, no doubt about that. I know that CCP will do what needs to be done in an attempt to make things right again, I will be very surprised if they don't.
Jinmie	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:10:00 - [1947] Edited by: Jinmie on 26/05/2007 20:09:01 Originally by: D'Artagnan Edited by: D''Artagnan on 26/05/2007 19:27:06 Originally by: Tetsujin Originally by: D'Artagnan If this was none BOB related it would be a non issuse You are deluded. There are 76 pages of people posting their opinions and concerns and I'm sure many of them don't care which group is involved, only that there is a potential involvement. No you are deluded 50 pages of this post are your allaince mates posting on alt, trust me i have seen this a long time before you eve started plaing eve from my own alliance about how bob cheat etc, sooner or later you will understand they beat you because they are better. Edit: Dear GS If you had bothered to read my last post you would know that its not just only Bob that have direct access to GMs its most alliances in this game but you decided to ignore that!!!! Most alliance in this game? People that write "most" when quoting figures on a internet post are making it up. Or are you actually going to quote us realistic numbers that represent MOST of the EVE Alliances in the game that ACTUALLY have the same GM / Dev connections as BoB? I think not, I bet you couldn't name more than 10 assuming there are even that many. Therefore nothing of what you say can be trusted because all you do is make up information to suit your point of view, the truth that you and the rest are protecting, your "special edge".
Kalestra Cable Faust Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:10:00 - [1948] I don't know about the other issues raised in this thread but the part where the Band of Brothers member said how they had friends in CCP bothers me. I really don't care if other alliances have friends in CCP either, I'm new to the game people having a direct contact with the developers where I don't puts me at a disadvantage. I'm wasting time and isk guessing the best way to do invention (something I'm looking to get into) while someone with a dev friend can just ask exactly how it works in between carrying on a normal conversation regarding the latest ep of 24/Lost etc with their mate..
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:11:00 - [1949] Originally by: Tholarim so it's true now, becus it was true then? I applaud your logic. Since in short you just said that any accusation involving bob would be true, without any evidence what so ******* ever. There's the typical mob mentality for you. I think it's sad that no matter whether or not bob win, they have been helped by devs spawning them tech II bpo's, running their capships (for sure) and a whole host of other cheats that haven't be proven (and probably cant be)... therefore if you win, it'll be an empty victory... We'll never know if you could have become so strong without CCP spawning things for you, or your ability to MSN ccp at will. If I were you, and I believed I could have been in the same position without CCP's help, I'd be furious with the people that are MSNing CCP, or spawning me BPO's, because it makes everything I could have achieved, worthless.
Hr84xor	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:14:00 - [1950] BoB, Goon, all the same 0.0 laser fights to me. What bothers me is that, essentially, a small group of players runs the game and the rest of us don't get a say about it because we don't "Know people". I don't care who goes drinking what with a dev, or a GM, I don't care if you hang out togeather, heck, I dont' care if your married. I do care if the people *We Payto run a Fair and balancedgame in which Everyone has a chance*allow their personal friendships/relations to alter their behavior and treatment of players.
Khlaatu Nikto Karma Niyama	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:16:00 - [1951] The CCP employee was probably fixing a problem petitioned by Darkstar1 (the BPOs that wouldn't lock down or whatever). The ISD guy said himself he wasn't supposed to respond to players in local. But he engaged in an argument. So CCP was probably right to tell him to leave the system. So what if it was a BoB member who called this to their attention? Don't get me wrong. I agree that there should be more of a wall between CCP employees in-game and regular subscribers. That seems obvious. But the actions by CCP seem like routine matters intended to serve the interests their customers, and nothing more. Until proven otherwise, this is an awfully big overreaction by those participating in this thread.
General Furyan Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:16:00 - [1952] Finally, i am out of this game, CCP is just going in the wrong direction, it took me several scandal to finally put me down. There was not much MMO to compete Eve in the last 2 years, thing will change in 2007. CCP is forcing poeple to blob and stay stuck in POS with Titan, you ignore players who are not capital pilots making them absolute in most situation. No mather how good you are in pvp, this activity have not much influence on war now, everything rely on witch alliance have the most capitals ships (including titan). I just miss the time where 1 pvper where able to close a system by it's pilot ability, not because of his ship type. Have fun guys, this game was really awesome until mid 2006. - General Furyan
Tholarim Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:17:00 - [1953] Originally by: NereSky What ever proof is shown you and your Band of whatevers will deny it, if this gets swept under the carpet again , you lot won't be able to help yourself and yet again you will behave in a manner to bring more shame i would say 'just leave' and salvage some honour from this debacle' but you wont you will keep denying it try to misdirect and attempt to get away with it until all what will be left is a game developers alliance playing with yourselves. where can you hide you heads in shame now? back in the sand or CCP HQ? while there's still people like you in eve, i still have a purpose, and that is to kill your alliances. I'd say bob is the one of the few with honour in this game, since we don't blame any1 else wheen we lose. That's the difference. You on the other hand would grasp any straw provided to you. I won't try and reason with any of you anymore, since it won't help in the slightest. Come try and take us down ingame, where this **** belongs.
Meepie	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:19:00 - [1954] Where did you get your definition of honour? The Devil's Dictionary?
NereSky Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:21:00 - [1955] Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: NereSky What ever proof is shown you and your Band of whatevers will deny it, if this gets swept under the carpet again , you lot won't be able to help yourself and yet again you will behave in a manner to bring more shame i would say 'just leave' and salvage some honour from this debacle' but you wont you will keep denying it try to misdirect and attempt to get away with it until all what will be left is a game developers alliance playing with yourselves. where can you hide you heads in shame now? back in the sand or CCP HQ? while there's still people like you in eve, i still have a purpose, and that is to kill your alliances. I'd say bob is the one of the few with honour in this game, since we don't blame any1 else wheen we lose. That's the difference. You on the other hand would grasp any straw provided to you. I won't try and reason with any of you anymore, since it won't help in the slightest. Come try and take us down ingame, where this **** belongs. then learn to enjoy Eve without cheating :)and BOB is the only Alliance without honour - time and time again you are met with allegations and time and time again you deny it and misdirect everyone, find that char erase button and use it , you may feel the hefty weight of guilt leaving you.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:21:00 - [1956] Edited by: Jonas Vance on 26/05/2007 20:20:58 Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: NereSky What ever proof is shown you and your Band of whatevers will deny it, if this gets swept under the carpet again , you lot won't be able to help yourself and yet again you will while there's still people like you in eve, i still have a purpose, and that is to kill your alliances. I'd say bob is the one of the few with honour in this game, since we don't blame any1 else wheen we lose. That's the difference. You on the other hand would grasp any straw provided to you. I won't try and reason with any of you anymore, since it won't help in the slightest. Come try and take us down ingame, where this **** belongs. behave in a manner to bring more shame i would say 'just leave' and salvage some honour from this debacle' but you wont you will keep denying it try to misdirect and attempt to get away with it until all what will be left is a game developers alliance playing with yourselves. where can you hide you heads in shame now? back in the sand or CCP HQ? BoB has been without honor for a very long time... before Goonswarm ever came. Keep this kind of witty banter in CAOD where it belongs. This thread is to discuss the possible misconduct of players and GM's.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:22:00 - [1957] Originally by: ToxicFire ...this time around im with CCP, heck this time even if the ISD is corrupt i'd be with CCP, why because of the way goons released the info, if they'd have posted perhaps once or twice in a formal manner not made a big deal about it... But you realize that 'the goons' actually first wrote several petitions which got instantly deleted without any reply, they tried to contact sharkbait without success (my advice to the goons: get msn, then this wouldn't have happened and you would have gotten instant reply) and then they wrote a polite and constructive post on the forums here asking for some explanation which got as well deleted instantly. You say you would have posted once or twice in a formal way. Well, the goons did that with the result that their posts were deleted and the posters got a ban. Now what else would you have done? Going back, muttering about an unfair treatment and that was it? I am very thankful that at least someone has the spine TO STAND UP against those insert nasty curse cheaters and that at least someone CANNOT BE MOBBED TO SILENCE as it happened so often in the past. Read the forums, especially bob members are very good at mobbing other people so that those people speaking out about exploits and cheating in the end give up. In the t20 incident that mobbing didn't work, though bob and ccp tried first very hard, good luck to no avail. Do you really thing that anything would have happend if not for some people shouting out loud? Would t20 be removed from bob, the t2 blueprints? Now is the time for the IA department to prove their worth and if they really have some power or if they are just a puppy which can be called around. Arkanon used strong language that no one should even dare to threaten him and that he is not accepting any orders from no one except from his boss, ccp ceo Hellmar. Well, let's see if he stands to his word or if that was all only nice talk.
Bootsey Collins	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:22:00 - [1958] If you aren't happy with the way this was brought to these forums, why don't you go make a thread about it? BoB members can't seem to unify behind any point other than "blame the whistleblowers." Why don't you offer some comments on the actual allegations that your members were involved in? In particular, do you feel that receiving immediate responses and assitance from developers over IM is cheating or is it acceptable gameplay? Are you denying the allegations, or do you just feel this is a perk you've somehow earned?
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:23:00 - [1959] Originally by: General Furyan Finally, i am out of this game, CCP is just going in the wrong direction, it took me several scandal to finally put me down. There was not much MMO to compete Eve in the last 2 years, thing will change in 2007. CCP is forcing poeple to blob and stay stuck in POS with Titan, you ignore players who are not capital pilots making them absolute in most situation. No mather how good you are in pvp, this activity have not much influence on war now, everything rely on witch alliance have the most capitals ships (including titan). I just miss the time where 1 pvper where able to close a system by it's pilot ability, not because of his ship type. Have fun guys, this game was really awesome until mid 2006. sure its not just your stark raving mad alliance mates pulling you down? seriously! Only thing that makes this game playable for me is my friends in game. There is no point past them, thats why i am here. For fun. If i had to log in and listen to 200+ ppl in alliance chan screaming about cheating and hax and sploits.... spamming forums out of game as my stations were losing sov. in game.... i'd get pretty down too. Maybe you just need to shack up with a crew thats about having fun? Go pwn in some low sec ? (there one pilot can still be god)..... if not, (god, i'm sorry, i cant resist..) can i have your stuf?
Obron Mettlo Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:23:00 - [1960] Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto The CCP employee was probably fixing a problem petitioned by Darkstar1 (the BPOs that wouldn't lock down or whatever). The ISD guy said himself he wasn't supposed to respond to players in local. But he engaged in an argument. So CCP was probably right to tell him to leave the system. So what if it was a BoB member who called this to their attention? Don't get me wrong. I agree that there should be more of a wall between CCP employees in-game and regular subscribers. That seems obvious. But the actions by CCP seem like routine matters intended to serve the interests their customers, and nothing more. Until proven otherwise, this is an awfully big overreaction by those participating in this thread. No. We've been told by CCP it was to fix a bugged POS, but DS1 only has 3 small POSs up and running. According to their CEOs, they have very few mods and are not building anything (I figure they are for logistics and capital safe-spots). There was no petition filed regarding these POSs as none of them have ever been bugged. Pyrex and Gilbert Drillerson both have confirmed this.
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:24:00 - [1961] Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: NereSky What ever proof is shown you and your Band of whatevers will deny it, if this gets swept under the carpet again , you lot won't be able to help yourself and yet again you will behave in a manner to bring more shame i would say 'just leave' and salvage some honour from this debacle' but you wont you will keep denying it try to misdirect and attempt to get away with it until all what will be left is a game developers alliance playing with yourselves. where can you hide you heads in shame now? back in the sand or CCP HQ? while there's still people like you in eve, i still have a purpose, and that is to kill your alliances. I'd say bob is the one of the few with honour in this game, since we don't blame any1 else wheen we lose. That's the difference. You on the other hand would grasp any straw provided to you. I won't try and reason with any of you anymore, since it won't help in the slightest. Come try and take us down ingame, where this ** belongs. Because exploiting to kill not one but two titans, otherwise an invincible *machine, is somehow fair. Oh cant mention the numerous occasions of CONFIRMED help from Devs, GM's and ISD. But hey, who am I to talk, I just want to ruin the game right? Get out, and take your ty propaganda with you, **weasel.
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:24:00 - [1962] Originally by: NereSky Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: NereSky What ever proof is shown you and your Band of whatevers will deny it, if this gets swept under the carpet again , you lot won't be able to help yourself and yet again you will behave in a manner to bring more shame i would say 'just leave' and salvage some honour from this debacle' but you wont you will keep denying it try to misdirect and attempt to get away with it until all what will be left is a game developers alliance playing with yourselves. where can you hide you heads in shame now? back in the sand or CCP HQ? while there's still people like you in eve, i still have a purpose, and that is to kill your alliances. I'd say bob is the one of the few with honour in this game, since we don't blame any1 else wheen we lose. That's the difference. You on the other hand would grasp any straw provided to you. I won't try and reason with any of you anymore, since it won't help in the slightest. Come try and take us down ingame, where this **** belongs. then learn to enjoy Eve without cheating :)and BOB is the only Alliance without honour - time and time again you are met with allegations and time and time again you deny it and misdirect everyone, find that char erase button and use it , you may feel the hefty weight of guilt leaving you. One thing I will say here. I have flown with thol before and whilst some of his alliance have cheated, and some others MAY have. Thol has never done anything of the sort to my knowledge.
Khlaatu Nikto Karma Niyama	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:25:00 - [1963] Quote: Dianabolic admitted in this thread that you have inappropriate connections with CCP that others don't. Who to believe, if not your chief diplomat? He didn't admit "inappropriate" connections. He said the relationship he has with game devs is the kind anyone could develop over time, and encouraged others to follow suit for the betterment of the game in general. I agree that such relationships are, in fact, inappropriate. But you are twisting the facts and misquoting.
maria stallion Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:25:00 - [1964] Edited by: maria stallion on 26/05/2007 20:24:35 Is this thread really neccesary to start the great eve war part 2? you guys can just fight us without a stupid reason you know :) anywayz I hope this will end up in a group of 20k people trying to kill us once again, I could use a bit more action :)
phillie blunt State War Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:26:00 - [1965] Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto The CCP employee was probably fixing a problem petitioned by Darkstar1 (the BPOs that wouldn't lock down or whatever). The ISD guy said himself he wasn't supposed to respond to players in local. But he engaged in an argument. So CCP was probably right to tell him to leave the system. So what if it was a BoB member who called this to their attention? Don't get me wrong. I agree that there should be more of a wall between CCP employees in-game and regular subscribers. That seems obvious. But the actions by CCP seem like routine matters intended to serve the interests their customers, and nothing more. Until proven otherwise, this is an awfully big overreaction by those participating in this thread. exactly
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:26:00 - [1966] If is smells like a witch hunt, it probably IS a witch hunt, and should be told to go to hell. This is true EVEN IF THE WITCH HUNTERS HAVE SOME TRUE FACTS. True facts in an accusation do mean that the accusation itself is true. CCP, over the last year or so in North Carolina, at Duke University, there has been a legal circus that bears looking at. A powerful ranking elected offical, District Attorney Michael Nifong, allowed the lynch mob to influence him. When the gapping holes in logic and reason finally forced NiFong to let independent legal teams investigate, the findings did not merely result in charges against the accused being dropped (normal when such things happen and improper conduct is found), instead the accused were, in firm terms leaving no room for doubt, declared "innocent". Furthermore, the findings against NiFong have permanently ruined his career. He has not been brough to trial "yet", but even if he escapes trial, his political career is over. He pandered to a lynch mob in order to win an up coming election. He won that election and then lost everything. Dont pander to lynch mobs, even if it means taking a hit. In the long run pandering to lynch mobs is always a bad idea. As for the "innocent" boys at Duke, they were guilty of behaving as jerks (I'd use worse words except for your filter), but thats it. Lynch mobs and witch hunters are bad company and bad leaders.
Monsieur Zorc	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:27:00 - [1967] Originally by: Tolarus All we can do is wait and see what happens, I have faith that CCP will 'do the right thing' in this recent incident to make things right or at least offer a complete and very detailed explanation of what happened and why. CCP screwed up dealing with similar things in the past (t20) and did not do the right things then, so I don't have faith anymore. Push all that political BS like BoB vs. everyone aside and have a look at it: GM / dev involvement in the game is out of control in my opinion. The measures taken (some IA dept formed with "old" CCP buddies in it) do not fit the size of the issue. The correct measure would be to get all CCP staff from playing the game (which does NOT mean they shouldn't log on TQ to help solve problems).
Khlaatu Nikto Karma Niyama	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:27:00 - [1968] often the first reports of a situation get the facts slightly wrong. It could have been when CCP questioned the guy he misremembered and it was in fact the BPOs he was fixing. Originally by: Obron Mettlo Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto The CCP employee was probably fixing a problem petitioned by Darkstar1 (the BPOs that wouldn't lock down or whatever). The ISD guy said himself he wasn't supposed to respond to players in local. But he engaged in an argument. So CCP was probably right to tell him to leave the system. So what if it was a BoB member who called this to their attention? Don't get me wrong. I agree that there should be more of a wall between CCP employees in-game and regular subscribers. That seems obvious. But the actions by CCP seem like routine matters intended to serve the interests their customers, and nothing more. Until proven otherwise, this is an awfully big overreaction by those participating in this thread. No. We've been told by CCP it was to fix a bugged POS, but DS1 only has 3 small POSs up and running. According to their CEOs, they have very few mods and are not building anything (I figure they are for logistics and capital safe-spots). There was no petition filed regarding these POSs as none of them have ever been bugged. Pyrex and Gilbert Drillerson both have confirmed this.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:27:00 - [1969] Originally by: maria stallion Edited by: maria stallion on 26/05/2007 20:24:35 Is this thread really neccesary to start the great eve war part 2? you guys can just fight us without a stupid reason you know :) anywayz I hope this will end up in a group of 20k people trying to kill us once again, I could use a bit more action :) No wants to fight people accused of cheating....
Price Checking	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:28:00 - [1970] Honor - honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions: a man of honor. Cheating - To violate rules deliberately, as in a game BoB is the only alliance in the game to be confirmed by CCP as having no honor.
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:28:00 - [1971] Originally by: Sergeant Spot If is smells like a witch hunt, it probably IS a witch hunt, and should be told to go to hell. This is true EVEN IF THE WITCH HUNTERS HAVE SOME TRUE FACTS. True facts in an accusation do mean that the accusation itself is true. CCP, over the last year or so in North Carolina, at Duke University, there has been a legal circus that bears looking at. A powerful ranking elected offical, District Attorney Michael Nifong, allowed the lynch mob to influence him. When the gapping holes in logic and reason finally forced NiFong to let independent legal teams investigate, the findings did not merely result in charges against the accused being dropped (normal when such things happen and improper conduct is found), instead the accused were, in firm terms leaving no room for doubt, declared "innocent". Furthermore, the findings against NiFong have permanently ruined his career. He has not been brough to trial "yet", but even if he escapes trial, his political career is over. He pandered to a lynch mob in order to win an up coming election. He won that election and then lost everything. Dont pander to lynch mobs, even if it means taking a hit. In the long run pandering to lynch mobs is always a bad idea. As for the "innocent" boys at Duke, they were guilty of behaving as jerks (I'd use worse words except for your filter), but thats it. Lynch mobs and witch hunters are bad company and bad leaders. I agree however CCP's dealing of the t20 event has left little faith in them to deal with things without a drama bomb
Vozzek	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:28:00 - [1972] Originally by: Obron Mettlo Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto The CCP employee was probably fixing a problem petitioned by Darkstar1 (the BPOs that wouldn't lock down or whatever). The ISD guy said himself he wasn't supposed to respond to players in local. But he engaged in an argument. So CCP was probably right to tell him to leave the system. So what if it was a BoB member who called this to their attention? Don't get me wrong. I agree that there should be more of a wall between CCP employees in-game and regular subscribers. That seems obvious. But the actions by CCP seem like routine matters intended to serve the interests their customers, and nothing more. Until proven otherwise, this is an awfully big overreaction by those participating in this thread. No. We've been told by CCP it was to fix a bugged POS, but DS1 only has 3 small POSs up and running. According to their CEOs, they have very few mods and are not building anything (I figure they are for logistics and capital safe-spots). There was no petition filed regarding these POSs as none of them have ever been bugged. Pyrex and Gilbert Drillerson both have confirmed this. In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response.
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:29:00 - [1973] Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: maria stallion Edited by: maria stallion on 26/05/2007 20:24:35 Is this thread really neccesary to start the great eve war part 2? you guys can just fight us without a stupid reason you know :) anywayz I hope this will end up in a group of 20k people trying to kill us once again, I could use a bit more action :) No wants to fight people accused of cheating.... That must be why nobody fights BoB, RA, or aAa.
Biosman ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:30:00 - [1974] To the community of Eve, BoB has CCP in their pocket Anything you do in this game amounts to s* You will never win,always lose. CCP doesn't give a s* and laughs at you Bob laughs at you as well on MSN with their CCP mates. If your fighting Bob (or even MC now) and see a GM in local...youre done. log off and go invent a longer lasting light bulb or something. Infinity (new space mmo) is looking good. CCP's next patch should be called "Exodus part II From here to Infinity" GG BoB,enjoy your ill gotten gains,the stain is permanent,you could try vanish, oh wait,this CCP responce is just that.
James Potkukelkka Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:30:00 - [1975] Originally by: Vozzek In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response. :O What manners.. --
Lei Dong	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:31:00 - [1976] Originally by: Sickari wtf??!! in what world these bobits live? the frikin police cant have drinks with the crooks dammit as long as we pay them to behave like professionals...if they want pints with bobits leave game behind and go play buddies 'sup wylker
Hr84xor	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:31:00 - [1977] Edited by: Hr84xor on 26/05/2007 20:31:58 From the recent dev blog on eve isk purchasing: "EVE is intended to be a level playground where people either make it or not based solely on their abilities and hard work INSIDE EVE, not outside of it." Doubtless this can be extrapolated to also mean "Not who your RL Friends are" Edit. In other news: Sharkbait seems to be sticking his ring-finger at you? Or did he perhaps suffer some horrible carpentry accident? Four-fingered bird.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:32:00 - [1978] Quote: I won't try and reason with any of you anymore, since it won't help in the slightest. Come try and take us down ingame, where this **** belongs. Why bother? It's obviously not even close to a level playing field. Tell ya what, loan me a DEV/GM or two and we can maybe work something out. I can see the MSN messages fly! It'll be great!
Marovinchian Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:32:00 - [1979] Goonfleet forums: "Guys, we are getting absolutely annihilated out here...it's time now to deploy our only means of defense....SPAM, SPAM THE FORUMS, SPAM YOUR LOCAL CHANNELS, BOB ARE CHEATERS, EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN GAME IS THEM CHEATING AND CCP HELPING THEM, WITH ALL YOU HAVE SPAM THE VERY DEPTHS OF OUTER SPACE UNTIL ALL OF EVE IS DESTROYED" seriously guys...lose with some class
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:32:00 - [1980] Originally by: James Potkukelkka Originally by: Vozzek In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response. :O What manners.. lol wait is this real?? or someone messing with the game :P
Khlaatu Nikto Karma Niyama	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:33:00 - [1981] Quote: In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response. Now THAT makes me angry.
UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:34:00 - [1982] i sugest we set a date where we all log off for 10 minuts to show ccp we dont like there ways of working... Sig removed, Email mods@ccpgames to find out why -Scyd
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:34:00 - [1983] Originally by: Marovinchian Goonfleet forums: "Guys, we are getting absolutely annihilated out here...it's time now to deploy our only means of defense....SPAM, SPAM THE FORUMS, SPAM YOUR LOCAL CHANNELS, BOB ARE CHEATERS, EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN GAME IS THEM CHEATING AND CCP HELPING THEM, WITH ALL YOU HAVE SPAM THE VERY DEPTHS OF OUTER SPACE UNTIL ALL OF EVE IS DESTROYED" seriously guys...lose with some class yeah bob win with some class.. oh wait
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:34:00 - [1984] Originally by: Marovinchian Goonfleet forums: "Guys, we are getting absolutely annihilated out here...it's time now to deploy our only means of defense....SPAM, SPAM THE FORUMS, SPAM YOUR LOCAL CHANNELS, BOB ARE CHEATERS, EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN GAME IS THEM CHEATING AND CCP HELPING THEM, WITH ALL YOU HAVE SPAM THE VERY DEPTHS OF OUTER SPACE UNTIL ALL OF EVE IS DESTROYED" seriously guys...lose with some class Huh, are you one of the mongoloids without SGBS access? Seriously, learn to read brosef.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:37:00 - [1985] Originally by: Karsten Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto Quote: In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response. Now THAT makes me angry. Is this the way CCP treats paying customers? I know I'm posting again.. but can someone post a link to the log of this please? I want to download the proof.
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:37:00 - [1986] Originally by: D'Artagnan "Dianabolic admitted in this thread that you have inappropriate connections with CCP that others don't. Who to believe, if not your chief diplomat?" As i said earlier other alliances have the same connection, i used to have one when i was anti bob but none in my corp at the time knew about it. I beg you not to be as stupid as you are acting at the moment. Bypassing the petition system by being buddies with a CCP employee is ridiculous. I don't care if you chat with them whenever, but for the love of god, keep it out of the game.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:37:00 - [1987] Originally by: D'Artagnan "Dianabolic admitted in this thread that you have inappropriate connections with CCP that others don't. Who to believe, if not your chief diplomat?" As i said earlier other alliances have the same connection, i used to have one when i was anti bob but none in my corp at the time knew about it. I beg you not to be as stupid as you are acting at the moment. Proof or stfu. Which alliances have GM connections. If one of the largest alliances in the game doesn't have them then I think you're full of it. Oh and make sure you get them to admit it.
Merc998	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:39:00 - [1988] Originally by: Marovinchian seriously guys...lose with some class And IF BoB are to win, do it on your own without Dev/GM help, seriously guys.... have some honour
Marovinchian Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:39:00 - [1989] it's the same with you people all the time, you can't win with what the game provides you so you attempt to manipulate the population and the developers of the game with your massive numbers and carefully manipulated half-truths constructed to turn things in your favor, ive played this game for near to 4 years, and i can honestly say ive never complained about the way it was ran or attempted to cheat or manipulate the system. I also used to be able to make the statement that i was playing a game with other mature individuals.....then goonfleet came along, if this is what it takes to get all of your type of people to leave the game though, thank god.....it was a far better place before you arrived
Al Zheimer	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:40:00 - [1990] Originally by: Vozzek Originally by: Obron Mettlo Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto The CCP employee was probably fixing a problem petitioned by Darkstar1 (the BPOs that wouldn't lock down or whatever). The ISD guy said himself he wasn't supposed to respond to players in local. But he engaged in an argument. So CCP was probably right to tell him to leave the system. So what if it was a BoB member who called this to their attention? Don't get me wrong. I agree that there should be more of a wall between CCP employees in-game and regular subscribers. That seems obvious. But the actions by CCP seem like routine matters intended to serve the interests their customers, and nothing more. Until proven otherwise, this is an awfully big overreaction by those participating in this thread. No. We've been told by CCP it was to fix a bugged POS, but DS1 only has 3 small POSs up and running. According to their CEOs, they have very few mods and are not building anything (I figure they are for logistics and capital safe-spots). There was no petition filed regarding these POSs as none of them have ever been bugged. Pyrex and Gilbert Drillerson both have confirmed this. In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response. that seems like even more quality handling of the problem by CCP. i enjoyed my trial but i will not become a customer to a company that so blatantly treats their paying customers in this manner. a game like this needs to have all sides playing on a level playing field and not with certain people having advantages like Developers helping them with things they should not have help with or even be so close to people that the integrity and fairness of the game is being called into question. that is even so more important in a pvp game with such political and social grouping aspects that EvE-Online have. i would urge everyone to walk with their own cash instead of giving it away to people who cheat and frankly steals it. its a whole new world out there the sun shines and new and interesting MMORPG's are being made wich will be a more level playing field then eve is.
maria stallion Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:41:00 - [1991] Originally by: Karsten Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto Quote: In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response. Now THAT makes me angry. Is this the way CCP treats paying customers? no this is how BOB wins eve :P
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:42:00 - [1992] Originally by: Marovinchian it's the same with you people all the time, you can't win with what the game provides you so you attempt to manipulate the population and the developers of the game with your massive numbers and carefully manipulated half-truths constructed to turn things in your favor, ive played this game for near to 4 years, and i can honestly say ive never complained about the way it was ran or attempted to cheat or manipulate the system. I also used to be able to make the statement that i was playing a game with other mature individuals.....then goonfleet came along, if this is what it takes to get all of your type of people to leave the game though, thank god.....it was a far better place before you arrived Sorry honeybuns, we're not leaving because of some half-assed cheating. Infact, we're not leaving at all. We're infecting your game with half-truths, oh wai-
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:42:00 - [1993] Originally by: D'Artagnan As i said earlier other alliances have the same connection, i used to have one when i was anti bob but none in my corp at the time knew about it. I beg you not to be as stupid as you are acting at the moment. And thats at least two. Anyone keeping track of all the people admitting to inappropriate connections with the devs? -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:42:00 - [1994] Originally by: Al Zheimer Originally by: Vozzek Originally by: Obron Mettlo Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto The CCP employee was probably fixing a problem petitioned by Darkstar1 (the BPOs that wouldn't lock down or whatever). The ISD guy said himself he wasn't supposed to respond to players in local. But he engaged in an argument. So CCP was probably right to tell him to leave the system. So what if it was a BoB member who called this to their attention? Don't get me wrong. I agree that there should be more of a wall between CCP employees in-game and regular subscribers. That seems obvious. But the actions by CCP seem like routine matters intended to serve the interests their customers, and nothing more. Until proven otherwise, this is an awfully big overreaction by those participating in this thread. No. We've been told by CCP it was to fix a bugged POS, but DS1 only has 3 small POSs up and running. According to their CEOs, they have very few mods and are not building anything (I figure they are for logistics and capital safe-spots). There was no petition filed regarding these POSs as none of them have ever been bugged. Pyrex and Gilbert Drillerson both have confirmed this. In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response. that seems like even more quality handling of the problem by CCP. i enjoyed my trial but i will not become a customer to a company that so blatantly treats their paying customers in this manner. a game like this needs to have all sides playing on a level playing field and not with certain people having advantages like Developers helping them with things they should not have help with or even be so close to people that the integrity and fairness of the game is being called into question. that is even so more important in a pvp game with such political and social grouping aspects that EvE-Online have. i would urge everyone to walk with their own cash instead of giving it away to people who cheat and frankly steals it. its a whole new world out there the sun shines and new and interesting MMORPG's are being made wich will be a more level playing field then eve is. We never wanted your business anyways.
Kasilof	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:51:00 - [1995] Not again. I have been playing about 6 months and this is the second major outbreak of CCP employee misconduct. I have been playing other games since 2000ish and never seen even one such situation before. EVE is a good game and I enjoy it. However, I must ask why continue to play? It will not be fun if I suspect CCP employees are assisting one side in the sandbox. It certaily appears they have been and continue to do so. It is obviouse the relationship between CCP and BOB is inappropriate. I guess I will wait to see what they do this time. I thought their response for the last incident was weak. Hopefully they get it this time. IMHO CCP employees should not be members of Player made organizations ever. They can come and observe the action anytime they choose however.
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:52:00 - [1996] Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Argh, that screenshot way predates any of this. Hey, that's not the punchline.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:52:00 - [1997] Originally by: D'Artagnan Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto Quote: In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response. Now THAT makes me angry. BUT if sharkbait is in BOB's pocket what is he doing in immensea as we are not in operations their at the moment, he is now fired. I don't care if he's working for you BoB! I don't care about the goons! it doesn't matter who's side who is on, I don't care. He was the one who entered the corp he is the one who unpluged himself he is the one who ignored all of everyone trying to talk to him. do you think non-goons really care if it's you who cheats? I don't care who it is. if this is what sharkbait had to said it's just fedup
Akisall	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:52:00 - [1998] lol but the finger was pretty funny. IMagine if you had 500 some odd people trying to tell you what you "supposedly" did wrong. I would get annoyed too if I were him.
Lee Bian Amarryan Nations GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:53:00 - [1999] Originally by: D'Artagnan Hey read my previous posts and you will know i used to have them when i was in KIA, at the time i knew of people in the PA and G that had similar contact, but as i said i dont have that contact anymore but i am sure people do as its part of the game. No. No it's not.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:54:00 - [2000] Originally by: D'Artagnan Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: D'Artagnan "Dianabolic admitted in this thread that you have inappropriate connections with CCP that others don't. Who to believe, if not your chief diplomat?" As i said earlier other alliances have the same connection, i used to have one when i was anti bob but none in my corp at the time knew about it. I beg you not to be as stupid as you are acting at the moment. Proof or stfu. Which alliances have GM connections. If one of the largest alliances in the game doesn't have them then I think you're full of it. Oh and make sure you get them to admit it. Hey read my previous posts and you will know i used to have them when i was in KIA, at the time i knew of people in the PA and G that had similar contact, but as i said i dont have that contact anymore but i am sure people do as its part of the game. Again, I see no proof other than your word. If it's part of the game, I want my own GM connection.
Don Hicks Dirty Labs	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:54:00 - [2001] CCP, can we have closure to this investigation pls!!! I really don't care any more who cheated, exploited, ..., blablabla,... . I am simply getting tired of this bull****. I am paying money to play and I want to enjoy it, but I can't when the only thing I read or hear about is this kind of crap. Off to pod someone... if i dont get podded
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:55:00 - [2002] Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Argh, that screenshot way predates any of this. yay a goon said it has no relavance! I can rest easy
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:56:00 - [2003] Edited by: Sochin on 26/05/2007 20:55:42 Originally by: DARKLING NEXT STEPS : 1. Remove all ccp backed pod based characters from game now, not tommorrow, not next week, not whenever their chattles have been redistributed........NOW. 2. Flood the market with more sought after bpo's, make it possible to build supercaps in 0.4 or at least other than 0.0 space. 3. Limit ISD actions or those of other CCP based chars TO SPECIFIC STORYLINE ACTIVITIES { I miss seeing oveur and the Jovians !!!} It's a start..... Are. You. *******. 1. The only reason EVE is as good as it is today is BECAUSE CCP plays the game. EVE is an extremely complicated game, and if the developers themselves were not rapid fans themselves we would end up with idiotic and bland stuff like Star Wars Galaxies. This is ESPECIALLY relevant in relation to alliance warfare. Why do you think the Alliance system was even implemented in game? Because developers played in the alliances and realized the necessity for ingame support of a phenomenon that they had never anticipated (massive player alliances vying for control of space, instead of individual corporations). 2. You only say this because you just lost all your stations to "BoB pets" and need to be able to build motherships in empire. And what the hell would flooding the market with BPOs accomplish other then completely ruin EVE's economy? 3. I don't even know what you mean by this point. Edit: They censored the word r.etarded?!?!?! Christ, this game is so stupid now. Nemo me impune lacessit*
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:57:00 - [2004] Originally by: Marovinchian Goonfleet forums: "Guys, we are getting absolutely annihilated out here...it's time now to deploy our only means of defense....SPAM, SPAM THE FORUMS, SPAM YOUR LOCAL CHANNELS, BOB ARE CHEATERS, EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN GAME IS THEM CHEATING AND CCP HELPING THEM, WITH ALL YOU HAVE SPAM THE VERY DEPTHS OF OUTER SPACE UNTIL ALL OF EVE IS DESTROYED" seriously guys...lose with some class seriously guys, stop cheating and fight with some class? Oh wait... that is getting lame, right? Why don't you say anything at all to the accusations and only throw dirt an the messenger instead of replying to the message? This makes you (looking) really stupid.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:57:00 - [2005] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: DARKLING NEXT STEPS : 1. Remove all ccp backed pod based characters from game now, not tommorrow, not next week, not whenever their chattles have been redistributed........NOW. 2. Flood the market with more sought after bpo's, make it possible to build supercaps in 0.4 or at least other than 0.0 space. 3. Limit ISD actions or those of other CCP based chars TO SPECIFIC STORYLINE ACTIVITIES { I miss seeing oveur and the Jovians !!!} It's a start..... Are. You. ********. 1. The only reason EVE is as good as it is today is BECAUSE CCP plays the game. EVE is an extremely complicated game, and if the developers themselves were not rapid fans themselves we would end up with idiotic and bland stuff like Star Wars Galaxies. This is ESPECIALLY relevant in relation to alliance warfare. Why do you think the Alliance system was even implemented in game? Because developers played in the alliances and realized the necessity for ingame support of a phenomenon that they had never anticipated (massive player alliances vying for control of space, instead of individual corporations). 2. You only say this because you just lost all your stations to "BoB pets" and need to be able to build motherships in empire. And what the hell would flooding the market with BPOs accomplish other then completely ruin EVE's economy? 3. I don't even know what you mean by this point. I agree with you but you shouldn't know that a player in your corp is a Dev.
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:57:00 - [2006] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Iraf Thaiberd Argh, that screenshot way predates any of this. yay a goon said it has no relavance! I can rest easy The screenshot is from like 4 months ago, of course it has no relevance. It's a joke, don't get too angry over it.
Aramark Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:58:00 - [2007] what that picture can prove is that sharkbait has had neg thoughts and feelings for anyone but bob. --------------------------------------------------- "Roses are red, Violets are blue, I'm a developer, are you one too?"
Karunel Princeps Corp YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:58:00 - [2008] After 5 1/2 years the time to move on from EVE may be finally coming. Seriously, this is beyond pathetic. One scandal, can happen to anyone. But this? All the Goonswarm BS aside, wish they never discovered EVE, this stuff is really destroying the image of CCP. I used to think of CCP as a really cool bunch of guys making a really cool game, but... Sad panda. ____ Originally by: elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:58:00 - [2009] I'm pretty much done after this subscription period runs out. To those who will ask if they can have my stuff: I will be taking it to Jita and posting each piece in local as I trash it individually. All the while I will laugh maniacally. Or perhaps I will drop it all in a jetcan and see if I can destroy it before someone takes any.
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:58:00 - [2010] :( Although it saddens me the forums were spammed to death, I can understand why it was done if you get stonewalled by CCP like allegedly happened. I really do not understand CCP's reaction in this. The whole trust issue is bust. Couple people left the game again. Will be a few more over the weekend, nothing like a long weekend to try out some trials some will say. The open letter.. if true, disgraceful. Some of the responses in here, utterly disgraceful. Especially in a thread like this you should leave your in game politics out of it imho. As mentioned before, there are black clouds of disgrace over CCP and BoB and other groups because of just a few individuals clearly being stupid. The reactions by these groups aren't actually helping. I feel sorry for all the fair and honest people in EvE.. gd it's hard not to rant angrily about all this **zle in a thread like this I used to ask for the fixing of all the 'features' before releasing new features.. am I now forced to ask for cleaning up your act before this?? a very disappointed baka All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:58:00 - [2011] Edited by: Victor Vision on 26/05/2007 20:58:52 Originally by: D'Artagnan "Dianabolic admitted in this thread that you have inappropriate connections with CCP that others don't. Who to believe, if not your chief diplomat?" As i said earlier other alliances have the same connection, i used to have one when i was anti bob but none in my corp at the time knew about it. Favoritism is bad. If you do something wrong, then others doing the same wrong -> does not make it right. Simple principle, that many learn as a child. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:59:00 - [2012] Originally by: Sochin 1. The only reason EVE is as good as it is today is BECAUSE CCP plays the game. EVE is an extremely complicated game, and if the developers themselves were not rapid fans themselves we would end up with idiotic and bland stuff like Star Wars Galaxies. This is ESPECIALLY relevant in relation to alliance warfare. Why do you think the Alliance system was even implemented in game? Because developers played in the alliances and realized the necessity for ingame support of a phenomenon that they had never anticipated (massive player alliances vying for control of space, instead of individual corporations). Playing the game and providing special favors for your corpmates in the game are two completely different things. The first one is acceptable while the second clearly crosses the line. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
heidrun Caelli-Merced	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:01:00 - [2013] Originally by: D'Artagnan "Dianabolic admitted in this thread that you have inappropriate connections with CCP that others don't. Who to believe, if not your chief diplomat?" As i said earlier other alliances have the same connection, i used to have one when i was anti bob but none in my corp at the time knew about it. I beg you not to be as stupid as you are acting at the moment. well if you cant beat em,join em..right dartagnan??? you truely are a man of honor and you belong in the honorable alliance that is bob....
George Petsch Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:02:00 - [2014] Originally by: Sochin Edited by: Sochin on 26/05/2007 20:55:42 1. The only reason EVE is as good as it is today is BECAUSE CCP plays the game [...] qft, but there you have it, the sharpest double edged sword ever. Hopefully things can be worked out, seeing one of the best games i've ever played going down because of such crap would really suck.
Calvin Firenze Minmatar Subach-Tech FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:03:00 - [2015] I'm waiting for that one goon to come clean and say...my bad, I got drunk, screen was blurry...I filed a petition. No, really, my bad y'all. Unfortunately, I don't expect any of them to have that kind of integrity. Shame this is not a signature, whatever anyone has told you is false. look away
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:04:00 - [2016] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Marovinchian Goonfleet forums: "Guys, we are getting absolutely annihilated out here...it's time now to deploy our only means of defense....SPAM, SPAM THE FORUMS, SPAM YOUR LOCAL CHANNELS, BOB ARE CHEATERS, EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN GAME IS THEM CHEATING AND CCP HELPING THEM, WITH ALL YOU HAVE SPAM THE VERY DEPTHS OF OUTER SPACE UNTIL ALL OF EVE IS DESTROYED" seriously guys...lose with some class seriously guys, stop cheating and fight with some class? Oh wait... that is getting lame, right? Why don't you say anything at all to the accusations and only throw dirt an the messenger instead of replying to the message? This makes you (looking) really stupid. Noone has actually been shown to have cheated. BoB is being accused of contacting a dev to get an ISD reporter to stop bumping our dreads while they were shooting a pos. That action did not give BoB any advantage over our enemies. The worst you can say is that it might be inappropriate, but obviously it is not "cheating". Nemo me impune lacessit
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:08:00 - [2017] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Playing the game and providing special favors for your corpmates in the game are two completely different things. The first one is acceptable while the second clearly crosses the line. You really, really need to get over the t20 incident and get a life. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Don Hicks Dirty Labs	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:08:00 - [2018] Originally by: Ashail Originally by: Karsten Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto Quote: snip Don't troll. -Rauth Now THAT makes me angry. Is this the way CCP treats paying customers? I think so, Wow- that's a pretty messed up response. Really goes to show just how unprofessional CCP really is if they think this is an appropriate response. Absolutely DISGUSTING. isnt that againt EULA?
Price Checking	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:09:00 - [2019] Originally by: Aries Acheron Originally by: Karsten Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto Quote: snip Don't troll. -Rauth . Now THAT makes me angry. Is this the way CCP treats paying customers? That shot was from when Maelstrom owned I-N, about... five months ago? It's not this case, and SHAME on anyone who tries to use it to condemn CCP. It's misleading and from MONTHS AGO. It's relevant now because the professionalism of CCP employees is called into question. I don't think spamming public chat with your costumers with a middle finger is ever professional.
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:11:00 - [2020] Originally by: Price Checking Originally by: Aries Acheron Originally by: Karsten Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto Quote: snip Don't troll. -Rauth . Now THAT makes me angry. Is this the way CCP treats paying customers? That shot was from when Maelstrom owned I-N, about... five months ago? It's not this case, and SHAME on anyone who tries to use it to condemn CCP. It's misleading and from MONTHS AGO. It's relevant now because the professionalism of CCP employees is called into question. I don't think spamming public chat with your costumers with a middle finger is ever professional. I think you and the people who think a middle finger is not professional are weeping vaginas.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:12:00 - [2021] Originally by: Frug Originally by: Azerrad InExile Playing the game and providing special favors for your corpmates in the game are two completely different things. The first one is acceptable while the second clearly crosses the line. You really, really need to get over the t20 incident and get a life. Imho its a great sig that supports what CCP should be doing.. trying to enforce a level playing field for all, sadly they have shown very very little commitment to that goal. The fact that it was originally by t20 is fairly meaningless to me, but admittedly does add some comedic effect. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:12:00 - [2022] I think someone smells defeat in the air tbh. At least the other coalition folks didnt go make a big stink about it. North may have all but lost the war but at least they had honour in defeat. Sorry, I just dont Trust/respect Goons word nor actions. I for one will wait before picking up the pitch fork and give CCP a chance. Oh and for anyone leaving... can I have your stuff? /me Puts on flamesuit. /me watches goonswarm bandwagon go by. /me waves bye.
Lobo13 Beyond-Redemption	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:12:00 - [2023] Originally by: Don Hicks Originally by: Ashail Originally by: Karsten Originally by: Khlaatu Nikto Quote: In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response. Now THAT makes me angry. Is this the way CCP treats paying customers? I think so, Wow- that's a pretty messed up response. Really goes to show just how unprofessional CCP really is if they think this is an appropriate response. Absolutely DISGUSTING. isnt that againt EULA? That picture has been edited, I have tried to paste that finger picture in local many times and it never lines up right! Lobo13. My sig is under contruction. If you look closely you can see the little men working on it.
Aramark Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:13:00 - [2024] bumping a dread is seige is bad.. but it's ok to knock ships out of the pos shield right bob.. --------------------------------------------------- "Roses are red, Violets are blue, I'm a developer, are you one too?"
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:13:00 - [2025] Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated I think someone smells defeat in the air tbh. At least the other coalition folks didnt go make a big stink about it. North may have all but lost the war but at least they had honour in defeat. Sorry, I just dont Trust/respect Goons word nor actions. I for one will wait before picking up the pitch fork and give CCP a chance. Oh and for anyone leaving... can I have your stuff? /me Puts on flamesuit. /me watches goonswarm bandwagon go by. /me waves bye. Yet you trust BoB? Get out.
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:13:00 - [2026] For those who somehow might be new to the game and not really aware of what happened in the so-called "T20 Incident" see http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/68591-Jumpgate-EVEs-Devs-and-the-Friends-They-Keep Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Halock	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:14:00 - [2027] Quote: Noone has actually been shown to have cheated. BoB is being accused of contacting a dev to get an ISD reporter to stop bumping our dreads while they were shooting a pos. That action did not give BoB any advantage over our enemies. The worst you can say is that it might be inappropriate, but obviously it is not "cheating". inappropriate? Being able to contact a dev and ask for favours is just inappropriate? who knows what else they called up a dev and asked for, intel goes a very veyr long way in this game, fi all they did was get intel that would be a major cause for concern, and frankly, if even that was all that was done, i'm pretty sure i'll be out of eve if they dont do something about it, and somethign major. Playing a game when the game itself is against you is just a waste of time, and you sir, for thinking theres nothign wrong with that is just.....i have no words.
Don Hicks Dirty Labs	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:15:00 - [2028] snip Quote and response to moderated post. -Rauth
Kukki Gallente ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:15:00 - [2029] Lol Link snipped for trolling - Karass Sayfo is realy hard. Even if its 5 or 6 month ago. But it shows how intelligent even the GM's are in this Game. And I got a warning by GM's for using offensive language. Jea. You are the best Gm's. _________________________________________________________________ Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Sextus Licinius Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:16:00 - [2030] Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: NereSky What ever proof is shown you and your Band of whatevers will deny it, if this gets swept under the carpet again , you lot won't be able to help yourself and yet again you will behave in a manner to bring more shame i would say 'just leave' and salvage some honour from this debacle' but you wont you will keep denying it try to misdirect and attempt to get away with it until all what will be left is a game developers alliance playing with yourselves. where can you hide you heads in shame now? back in the sand or CCP HQ? while there's still people like you in eve, i still have a purpose, and that is to kill your alliances. I'd say bob is the one of the few with honour in this game, since we don't blame any1 else wheen we lose. That's the difference. You on the other hand would grasp any straw provided to you. I won't try and reason with any of you anymore, since it won't help in the slightest. Come try and take us down ingame, where this **** belongs. Well you sure we won't have to get past CCP first to kill you? Or is it really a bit too late i wonder... . I mean with the T20 thingy you already managed to attract alot of people into your alliance which only led to even more manpower and assets and so on... ,one thing leads to another, how can CCP fix this? We know way too much already of your cheating, but how about the stuff that we don't know? I tell you what; it leads to wondering. I remember when we were invited to join BoB in the making when Blacklight said "this is bigger than us" i still wonder what he meant by that, was that the moment when CCP+BOB got married? but of course i'm rambling. IMO if you don't manage to actually kill this game, you can feel proud that you came very very close. "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man"
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:16:00 - [2031] Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated I think someone smells defeat in the air tbh. At least the other coalition folks didnt go make a big stink about it. North may have all but lost the war but at least they had honour in defeat. Sorry, I just dont Trust/respect Goons word nor actions. I for one will wait before picking up the pitch fork and give CCP a chance. Oh and for anyone leaving... can I have your stuff? /me Puts on flamesuit. /me watches goonswarm bandwagon go by. /me waves bye. What a courageous post -- post with your main - Sir Bobbit. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Cafu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:16:00 - [2032] As disheartening as it is to see CCP employees once again implicated in incidents that seem to suggest favoritism and cheating, I am most disappointed in their reaction to these allegations. What kind of corporate culture exists in this company that makes it immediately leap into cover-up mode when questions are raised? How can we expect any kind of honest resolution when CCP's response to issues like this is to delete posts and ban users? A major problem exists when one entity has a direct IM line to game developers and GMs while others have to resort to crashing a message board to be acknowleged after legitimate queries are deleted and ignored.
Aleisha Liao Caldari IGHN	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:17:00 - [2033] Okay, I'll put my two cents in, so the big alliance types and CCP can see what this looks like from the non-power-player groups out there. I'm not a Goon, and I'm certainly not low enough to be a BOB member. I'm part of a small corp, in a small alliance, and I've been playing EVE for almost 3 months. Let me be straight on this, I love this game. EVE has all the trademarks of greatness, and the depth of play, the storyline, and the players themselves make up a killer combination. I'm really glad that the hubby showed me this game, and I've been happy with it until yesterday. Yesterday, I got an email from one of my friends at work, pointing out this new problem with CCP/BOB/Goons. She said, "This is that game you play all the time, right?" Yeah...and now I have to go read up on this BS. It took me about 2 hours to accumulate about 200 pages of posts, developer notes, Digg and Slashdot articles, and I finally stopped printing it all out and started reading. Here's what I've come to think about the three major parties involved. The Goons over-react, CCP covers up, and BoB hides behind whatever CCP says. No one is innocent on this. BoB members release all kinds of poorly thought-out vile drek all over the forums in a bad attempt to defend what they see as a personal attack, while their leaders add nothing of substance. The Goon folks with a few exceptions follow the same path. CCP seems worthy of pity, but for a different reason. CCP's most glaringly obvious problem is that they allow devs to play at all. Human nature being what it is, some of those devs will INEVITABLY succumb to temptation and will want to help out their buddies. It's been a long time since this game was launched, and now those developers are naturally going to be highly reluctant to give up characters that they have so much invested in. That's years of their lives tied up on both sides of the gaming fence. As a result I do pity them, but these accusations they face are an inevitable result of a ****-poor policy of allowing the developers to act for years as uberplayers. I won't quote any posts here, because the spammers have done quite enough of that already. I won't single out any players, either, because someone has to draw the line. But hear me well on this: I've started talking to other Joe Average types, like myself, with far less time and money invested in this game. The response is damn near unanimous, that folks like us are sick of playing a game we've associated our good names with. Our friends know we play this, and some of them play it too. The sense in the gaming community that EVE is hopelessly corrupt is growing, because CCP does nothing of great consequence to change their policies. An IA department is no longer viable if its OWN MEMBERS can perpetuate this problem. A CEO who slaps wrists is not trusted. CCP, you can do much to restore our broken faith. Be dramatic about it. Do something drastic. Anything else will leave your game gutted and abandoned by its player base.
Radgun Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:17:00 - [2034] Edited by: Radgun on 26/05/2007 21:15:43 I guess a little common sense goes a long way. If my station somewhere is bugged, I don't have a problem with a GM coming to fix it, but he should tell me. You wouldn't want repairmen breaking into your home to fix stuff, would you? And if the guy whose home you broke into to fix something asks you why you broke in (because he's unaware of the problem) you, CCP worker, should have the decency to tell him. And CCP should post what the allegations are. Stop the ambiguity for crying out loud! Ambiguity is hurting your player base!
Merc998	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:17:00 - [2035] The very fact remains that BoB should NOT be able to summon a GM to solve an issue via out of game means, it gives BoB an unfair advantage over everyone else that plays the game. And raises the question on how many other occassions have BoB exploited their "freindship" to gain such an advantage. To be able use this out of game communication with CCP employees to gain faster responses to probleams shows a high level of collusion and support for BoB that is simply unavailable to the huge majority of Eve residents. That in itself shows that CCP Employees are assisting BoB still even after the T20 affair. Shout and bluster all you want BoB it is still WRONG
Erik Amirault Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:17:00 - [2036] This thread is great [and by that I mean a JOKE]. Let's put all the serious allegations into a single thread and then never really deal with the issue seriously. You are an idiot if you believe that developers can be close with players in a game as competitive as this and NOT give perks to their friends. Oh wait, we have a bunch of Mother Theresa's here right.. right. Wonder what other perks [ISK, Ships etc.] they've received.
Neue Ziel	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:19:00 - [2037] The fundamental problem here is even if CCP is 100% right; and this was in fact an innocent action the way in which it was done presents the appearance of impropriety. CCP has an image problem. It at least looks like to many that something corrupt has happened in the past and in this case. There's just enough innuendo going around to seriously damage CCP's credibility. Yes; spinning is going on here but you need something to spin. There is a root problem that a developer did something in a manner that suggested cheating. Let's face it. Would you go and play games of chance at a Casino where you just suspected that the games might be rigged? Even if you had no way of proving it conclusively one way or another? That's the issue here we're not sure whether Developer authored cheating occurred here and we can't be; it's almost impossible for anyone outside the company to prove; and difficult for the company to demonstrate as long as your staff continues to play the game. As long as that factor is in play; trust is always going to be an issue. IA has failed, like it or not; to prevent another scandal from occurring. That's inevitable. Taking it back to the Casino analogy if you were playing a game of black jack against a guy you'd seen dealing earlier that evening wouldn't you at least imagine he might have some kind of unfair advantage? This is the demon CCP has to grapple with. This is the 800lb Gorilla in the room. It has to be dealt with or at the very least you're going to see account cancellations; lost revenue and that will hurt the game. So how do you deal with this? You have to restore our confidence in the impartiality of mods. It's not realistic to expect that CCP staff will stop playing; however IA is a different story. The job of internal affairs is to keep the people with power honest. What we need is confidence that they do not play the game and have no stake in in-game politics. The individual(s) in this IA have to sign legally binding agreements not to play the game and CCP needs to post copies of these agreements where we can read them and see that the people appointed to be the "Cheat police" are aren't going to be fraternizing with the players OR the Developers. They need to be responsible solely for any allegations of cheating and exploits by players in game. The petition system is NOT an adequate measure in a case where the accused has access beyond that of the player(s) accusing them of wrong doing. Complaints of this nature must go directly to IA who will review it and act accordingly and more importantly inform us of the offense, the actions taken and the reasons why Total transparency, image, and player confidence are key. Without those elements any attempts to make this go away are going to fail horribly. The absolute worst thing CCP can do right now is draw in their horns, say the problem is dealt with and not give us any details. We need to see every step of the process and be assured the outcome; whatever it is; is fair. In the absence of that the rumors will continue to feed on themselves endlessly. I belive Arkanon means what he says in his blog; but this position should not be held by someone in house for good reason: It's hard to do bad things to people you call friends. That's just human nature. It's easy to cut them a break, let things slide or hand out second chances. The fact that certain indviduals kept their jobs after the earlier scandals has only made CCP look more corrupt then it did when the scandal first broke. For this reason; the position must be held by a consultant outside of CCP corporate culture and who we can be absolutely sure is not an EVE player. Yes, this is harsh on Arkanon but again this is an image problem; and in light of that it is necessary. Nothing more then a total audit of all the parties involved by a disintrested third party is going to squash the specter of corruption that has been haunting the game for some time now.
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:19:00 - [2038] Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated I think someone smells defeat in the air tbh. At least the other coalition folks didnt go make a big stink about it. North may have all but lost the war but at least they had honour in defeat. Sorry, I just dont Trust/respect Goons word nor actions. I for one will wait before picking up the pitch fork and give CCP a chance. Oh and for anyone leaving... can I have your stuff? /me Puts on flamesuit. /me watches goonswarm bandwagon go by. /me waves bye. What a courageous post -- post with your main - Sir Bobbit. Paranoia FTL tbh.
Gallentis III	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:19:00 - [2039] Well I agree with ST on this one. It should not have happened but it did.
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:20:00 - [2040] Originally by: Erik Amirault This thread is great [and by that I mean a JOKE]. Let's put all the serious allegations into a single thread and then never really deal with the issue seriously. You are an idiot if you believe that developers can be close with players in a game as competitive as this and NOT give perks to their friends. Oh wait, we have a bunch of Mother Theresa's here right.. right. Wonder what other perks [ISK, Ships etc.] they've received. I believe there are a few who could do it, but I don't want it happening regardless.
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:20:00 - [2041] Originally by: Haloskeeter Edited by: Haloskeeter on 26/05/2007 21:08:40 Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Marovinchian Goonfleet forums: "Guys, we are getting absolutely annihilated out here...it's time now to deploy our only means of defense....SPAM, SPAM THE FORUMS, SPAM YOUR LOCAL CHANNELS, BOB ARE CHEATERS, EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN GAME IS THEM CHEATING AND CCP HELPING THEM, WITH ALL YOU HAVE SPAM THE VERY DEPTHS OF OUTER SPACE UNTIL ALL OF EVE IS DESTROYED" seriously guys...lose with some class seriously guys, stop cheating and fight with some class? Oh wait... that is getting lame, right? Why don't you say anything at all to the accusations and only throw dirt an the messenger instead of replying to the message? This makes you (looking) really stupid. Noone has actually been shown to have cheated. BoB is being accused of contacting a dev to get an ISD reporter to stop bumping our dreads while they were shooting a pos. That action did not give BoB any advantage over our enemies. The worst you can say is that it might be inappropriate, but obviously it is not "cheating". Actually, if I have read correctly. A BoB member gave orders to the ISD Reporter to get the hell out of dodge, and then the reporter was subsequently banned. BoB says dreads were bumped, the reporter stated it was impossible. Sorry buddies, but I take the ISD Reporters words over yours. Edit: Oh wait no I don't they're the same thing. Did you even read your "Open Letter"? The reporter specifically states that he teleported to within 1 FOOT of the dreads. You don't think that will bump them? ISD Reporters are also required to leave an area if requested, and this reporter refused to do so. Also, only his ISD character was banned, which I imagine is pretty standard when you are fired from ISD. He specifically states that his player character was NOT banned, he just had to start paying for it again instead of getting a free ride (oh the horror!) Nemo me impune lacessit
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:20:00 - [2042] Originally by: Slykette Originally by: Nicola Sardonicus To CCP: Closing down the forums because you don't like what people are saying (because, after all, that's all you're doing) is misguided and counter-productive. It makes you look like you have something to hide, and believe me, this is being talked about a LOT on other forums (like MMPORPG.com) over which you have no control. This latest action merely fuels the fires of outrage and negative attention on those forums. Just take action quickly, decisively and openly, and be done with it. Most of this could have been avoided had a detailed explanation been immediately provided, and any guilty parties punished appropriately (i.e., employment terminated immediately). Your current dithering just makes things worse. They do even more than close down the forums all the time mate. They "moderate" out ANYTHING they feel is said against CCP or Eve. you are only allowed to say NICE things. LoL Freedom of speach doesn't exist in Iceland I guess. Point 1:The game and forum servers are in the UK, not Iceland. Point 2:Freedom of Speech concerns government censorship in public spaces. CCP is not a government (it's a private company) and the game and its forums are not public spaces. Put simply:CCP have as much right to delete posts and control discussions on here as you do to prevent people from entering your home. Your remedy under the law is not to participate if you don't like it. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] *This is not* a signature**
Red Gabba Use Of Weapons	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:21:00 - [2043] Edited by: Red Gabba on 26/05/2007 21:20:09 Moderated myself as it was in relation to a deleted quote.... Thanks for being understanding. -Rauth
Numi Ming	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:22:00 - [2044] To be quite honest this is not about BoB. Nor should it be. The fact is any Developer involvement in the player side aspects of this game should be viewed at best as an open invitation to suspicion mistrust and disillusionment among the Eve community..This is about player trust,game integrity..e.i you leave the door open anything can enter. In any case after 1.5 years of game play i have never had any dealings..good or bad with BoB. So for me they aren't the issue.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:22:00 - [2045] [snip Quote and response to moderated post. -Rauth snip Please don't flame. -Rauth this isn't the time or place for sarcasm- both sides are slinging attempted sarcasm at each other as proof. You should know better.
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:23:00 - [2046] Originally by: Sochin Did you even read your "Open Letter"? The reporter specifically states that he teleported to within 1 FOOT of the dreads. You don't think that will bump them? ISD Reporters are also required to leave an area if requested, and this reporter refused to do so. Also, only his ISD character was banned, which I imagine is pretty standard when you are fired from ISD. He specifically states that his player character was NOT banned, he just had to start paying for it again instead of getting a free ride (oh the horror!) Infact, I did read it. You do realise that ISD has the ability to instantly stop ships in their tracks right? I assumed he did that before he teleported. It also stated he warped the the dread that was furthest away from the rest of the fleet, I assume to minimize any bumping that could have occured. Sorry for making assumptions.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:23:00 - [2047] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Marovinchian Goonfleet forums: "Guys, we are getting absolutely annihilated out here...it's time now to deploy our only means of defense....SPAM, SPAM THE FORUMS, SPAM YOUR LOCAL CHANNELS, BOB ARE CHEATERS, EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN GAME IS THEM CHEATING AND CCP HELPING THEM, WITH ALL YOU HAVE SPAM THE VERY DEPTHS OF OUTER SPACE UNTIL ALL OF EVE IS DESTROYED" seriously guys...lose with some class seriously guys, stop cheating and fight with some class? Oh wait... that is getting lame, right? Why don't you say anything at all to the accusations and only throw dirt an the messenger instead of replying to the message? This makes you (looking) really stupid. Noone has actually been shown to have cheated [...] Oh, right! And the whole t20 incident was conjured up by ascn as a late revenge because they are sore loosers? I think you bob people should be a BIT more careful in playing innocent. And how do you call a hot wire (msn) directly to the devs/GMs other than cheating? Quickly resolving problems if some arise or asking quickly for some clarification if some special gameplay is allowed or forbidden. All that is CHEATING! All that no normal player can do. I for example asked on the forums about this shooting through pos shields weeks and weeks ago. There is still no answer from anyone. Bob just can ask their buddies at ccp if that is legal or not and get exclusive knowledge other players don't have. How do you call this if not cheating? Above is fact, about the accusations hopefully the IA will post something soon substancially...on the other hand who cares? Eve is dead anyway now: thank you bob.
Arl GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:24:00 - [2048] It was a SMASH member who brought the latest MSN & RP issues to light, his two threads were deleted, that was well before goons started posting.
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:24:00 - [2049] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi [snip Quote and response to moderated post. -Rauth snip Please don't flame. -Rauth this isn't the time or place for sarcasm- both sides are slinging attempted sarcasm at each other as proof. You should know better. I thought you quit.
Barbicus	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:25:00 - [2050] do not know why googswarm should be upset since the developers allowed them to exploit against LV by intentionally crash the network. CCP needs to take a long good look at how their employees blow off major exploiyts that lead to major changes in the games. I do not beleive in coincidental that developers allow shortcoming that come with a large network game like Eve that are exploitative per EULA and then a major take over is on the news. I was one of many that was shut out from goonfleet intentional sucessiful attempt to crash defenders out from access to game. That is how they got JV1 and LV capital ship building POS. So, the recent developer problem is not an isolated event. I am hoping the Federal Trade Commission is inflitrating the game. Some of us requested FTC to investigate CCP compliance with their policies and also international, federal regulations as well.
Erik Amirault Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:25:00 - [2051] Originally by: Numi Ming To be quite honest this is not about BoB. Nor should it be. The fact is any Developer involvement in the player side aspects of this game should be viewed at best as an open invitation to suspicion mistrust and disillusionment among the Eve community..This is about player trust,game integrity..e.i you leave the door open anything can enter. In any case after 1.5 years of game play i have never had any dealings..good or bad with BoB. So for me they aren't the issue. Wrong. snip Don't troll. -Rauth .
Phoebus Athenian Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:25:00 - [2052] Hrm this indeed seems pretty fishy... I thought CCP promised to have a "Paladin to fight corruption" Arkannon... and for a while I was relieved... but now here we go again? ---
Erik Amirault Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:25:00 - [2053] snip Don't troll. -Rauth
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:26:00 - [2054] I love the fact that in post after post after post the BOB guys simply dont get it. We have a new series of posting not denying that they privately contacted a GM and had him there in 40 seconds...but instead--JUSTIFYING IT! the guy was "bumping us"...."and now he has to pay for his account boo hoo"... We also have the tactic of "your losing and this is just meta gaming", "the timing is fishy" "goonies are bad too" and on and on.... The fact remains BOB has a cozy relationship with the DEV's that allow them access to info, intervention, BPO's, and god knows what else-that the rest of the community doesnt have. In a competitive game this is patently unfair. If BOB cant grasp that concept then I guess it comes as no surpise that CCP cannot either.
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:27:00 - [2055] Originally by: Barbicus do not know why googswarm should be upset since the developers allowed them to exploit against LV by intentionally crash the network. CCP needs to take a long good look at how their employees blow off major exploiyts that lead to major changes in the games. I do not beleive in coincidental that developers allow shortcoming that come with a large network game like Eve that are exploitative per EULA and then a major take over is on the news. I was one of many that was shut out from goonfleet intentional sucessiful attempt to crash defenders out from access to game. That is how they got JV1 and LV capital ship building POS. So, the recent developer problem is not an isolated event. I am hoping the Federal Trade Commission is inflitrating the game. Some of us requested FTC to investigate CCP compliance with their policies and also international, federal regulations as well. Post with your main, also, uh-huh we intentionally crashed the node. Because you know, one thousand plus players in a system wasn't enough.
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:28:00 - [2056] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Marovinchian Goonfleet forums: "Guys, we are getting absolutely annihilated out here...it's time now to deploy our only means of defense....SPAM, SPAM THE FORUMS, SPAM YOUR LOCAL CHANNELS, BOB ARE CHEATERS, EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN GAME IS THEM CHEATING AND CCP HELPING THEM, WITH ALL YOU HAVE SPAM THE VERY DEPTHS OF OUTER SPACE UNTIL ALL OF EVE IS DESTROYED" seriously guys...lose with some class seriously guys, stop cheating and fight with some class? Oh wait... that is getting lame, right? Why don't you say anything at all to the accusations and only throw dirt an the messenger instead of replying to the message? This makes you (looking) really stupid. Noone has actually been shown to have cheated. BoB is being accused of contacting a dev to get an ISD reporter to stop bumping our dreads while they were shooting a pos. That action did not give BoB any advantage over our enemies. The worst you can say is that it might be inappropriate, but obviously it is not "cheating". Can you give any evidence that noone was cheating? On the whole I think noone has shown himself to be a lot more trustworth than BoB, although his actual involvement into this afair is somewhat obscure. At least noone never calls his powerful dev friends to get other players of the game kicked out. Apparently noone doesn't have their MSN information. --
oodin Biohazzard Task Force Mass Destruction.	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:28:00 - [2057] Originally by: Karunel After 5 1/2 years the time to move on from EVE may be finally coming. Seriously, this is beyond pathetic. One scandal, can happen to anyone. But this? All the Goonswarm BS aside, wish they never discovered EVE, this stuff is really destroying the image of CCP. I used to think of CCP as a really cool bunch of guys making a really cool game, but... Sad panda. im afraid i agree with you there karunel...this is just getting to a point where there is no more reason to spend money on playing a game anymore...
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:28:00 - [2058] Originally by: Haloskeeter Originally by: Sochin Did you even read your "Open Letter"? The reporter specifically states that he teleported to within 1 FOOT of the dreads. You don't think that will bump them? ISD Reporters are also required to leave an area if requested, and this reporter refused to do so. Also, only his ISD character was banned, which I imagine is pretty standard when you are fired from ISD. He specifically states that his player character was NOT banned, he just had to start paying for it again instead of getting a free ride (oh the horror!) Infact, I did read it. You do realise that ISD has the ability to instantly stop ships in their tracks right? I assumed he did that before he teleported. It also stated he warped the the dread that was furthest away from the rest of the fleet, I assume to minimize any bumping that could have occured. Sorry for making assumptions. So, your position is that D4kkon just decided he didn't want ISD around to document our spectacular victory, and in order to remove the reporter made up a story about bumping so he could ask a dev to make the reporter leave? ... Yeah, that makes alot of sense. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that the reporter was wrong, or is not telling the entire truth. Just because what he says supports your "z0mg bob cheats!" point of view doesn't mean you should completely disengage your critical thinking and deductive logic circuits. Nemo me impune lacessit
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:30:00 - [2059] Originally by: Haloskeeter Originally by: Sochin Did you even read your "Open Letter"? The reporter specifically states that he teleported to within 1 FOOT of the dreads. You don't think that will bump them? ISD Reporters are also required to leave an area if requested, and this reporter refused to do so. Also, only his ISD character was banned, which I imagine is pretty standard when you are fired from ISD. He specifically states that his player character was NOT banned, he just had to start paying for it again instead of getting a free ride (oh the horror!) Infact, I did read it. You do realise that ISD has the ability to instantly stop ships in their tracks right? I assumed he did that before he teleported. It also stated he warped the the dread that was furthest away from the rest of the fleet, I assume to minimize any bumping that could have occured. Sorry for making assumptions. He also clearly stated that the command jumps a ship to within a foot. Now if that's the case it presumably bumps the ship..although 'a foot' is a weird thing to say given that the game is metric. Tbh I see two explanations for that incident:One is the tin-foil hat brigade suggesting an organised conspiracy by CCP to damage their game and destroy a mult-million pound business quite possibly laying the management open to real-life legal action (it would be a criminal offense against the share holders). The other explanation is that an ISD reporter bumped a dread (and he admits he was close and at risk of doing that). When challenged he ignores the challenger and refuses to leave. His boss sees what he did and that he refused to back down so he sacks him. The reporter gets a case of the blues and decides to take revenge by spinning the story. So put simply we have two possible explanations: 1.A bizarre conspiracy risking jobs, a business and a criminal investigation. 2.Some ISD reporter making a mistake, refusing to admit it then getting fired and making up crap to get back at his ex-employers. I know which sounds more likely to me. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] *This is not* a signature**
Kalestra Cable Faust Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:30:00 - [2060] The important part is you shouldn't be able to get on MSN and get someone from CCP to sort your problems in 5 mins when I'd have to petition and wait 5 days.
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:30:00 - [2061] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Haloskeeter Originally by: Sochin Did you even read your "Open Letter"? The reporter specifically states that he teleported to within 1 FOOT of the dreads. You don't think that will bump them? ISD Reporters are also required to leave an area if requested, and this reporter refused to do so. Also, only his ISD character was banned, which I imagine is pretty standard when you are fired from ISD. He specifically states that his player character was NOT banned, he just had to start paying for it again instead of getting a free ride (oh the horror!) Infact, I did read it. You do realise that ISD has the ability to instantly stop ships in their tracks right? I assumed he did that before he teleported. It also stated he warped the the dread that was furthest away from the rest of the fleet, I assume to minimize any bumping that could have occured. Sorry for making assumptions. So, your position is that D4kkon just decided he didn't want ISD around to document our spectacular victory, and in order to remove the reporter made up a story about bumping so he could ask a dev to make the reporter leave? ... Yeah, that makes alot of sense. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that the reporter was wrong, or is not telling the entire truth. Just because what he says supports your "z0mg bob cheats!" point of view doesn't mean you should completely disengage your critical thinking and deductive logic circuits. Actually, I believe it could go either way. It's not the point that the ISD member possible bumped one dread, ONE WHOLE DREAD. It's the fact that YOUR ALLIANCE got HIM banned for no real good reason.
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:30:00 - [2062] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Marovinchian Goonfleet forums: "Guys, we are getting absolutely annihilated out here...it's time now to deploy our only means of defense....SPAM, SPAM THE FORUMS, SPAM YOUR LOCAL CHANNELS, BOB ARE CHEATERS, EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN GAME IS THEM CHEATING AND CCP HELPING THEM, WITH ALL YOU HAVE SPAM THE VERY DEPTHS OF OUTER SPACE UNTIL ALL OF EVE IS DESTROYED" seriously guys...lose with some class seriously guys, stop cheating and fight with some class? Oh wait... that is getting lame, right? Why don't you say anything at all to the accusations and only throw dirt an the messenger instead of replying to the message? This makes you (looking) really stupid. Noone has actually been shown to have cheated. BoB is being accused of contacting a dev to get an ISD reporter to stop bumping our dreads while they were shooting a pos. That action did not give BoB any advantage over our enemies. The worst you can say is that it might be inappropriate, but obviously it is not "cheating". Can you give any evidence that noone was cheating? On the whole I think noone has shown himself to be a lot more trustworth than BoB, although his actual involvement into this afair is somewhat obscure. At least noone never calls his powerful dev friends to get other players of the game kicked out. Apparently noone doesn't have their MSN information. When you have to resort to criticizing someone's grammar or spelling in order to try and win an argument, it means you have already lost. Nemo me impune lacessit
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:31:00 - [2063] Originally by: Sochin Did you even read your "Open Letter"? The reporter specifically states that he teleported to within 1 FOOT of the dreads. You don't think that will bump them? ISD Reporters are also required to leave an area if requested, and this reporter refused to do so. Also, only his ISD character was banned, which I imagine is pretty standard when you are fired from ISD. He specifically states that his player character was NOT banned, he just had to start paying for it again instead of getting a free ride (oh the horror!) You kind of omitted the part where Orange Species said he'd contact CCP staff members over MSN and then moments a dev completely unrelated to the "bumping" events turns up in the ISD channel to chew the reporter out. That to me is the most interesting part of the whole event.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:33:00 - [2064] Nikto: So CCP was probably right to tell him to leave the system. So what if it was a BoB member who called this to their attention? Well, in that case it would take 40 Sec to get a response from CCP, if the regular joe has the same problem it might be 40 days... Do you see a difference ?
Biswen hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:33:00 - [2065] The Solution
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:34:00 - [2066] Originally by: Andrue So put simply we have two possible explanations: 1.A bizarre conspiracy risking jobs, a business and a criminal investigation. 2.Some ISD reporter making a mistake, refusing to admit it then getting fired and making up crap to get back at his ex-employers. I know which sounds more likely to me. Uhm, no. Did you happen to read the IRC logs that were included in the incident in question? A mysterious man appeared seemingly out of nowhere, after a BoB user said he would "call up a buddy" and get him removed from the system. The IRC logs were provided independently of the source in question. So yeah, I'm going with the first.
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:34:00 - [2067] Originally by: Haloskeeter Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Haloskeeter Originally by: Sochin Did you even read your "Open Letter"? The reporter specifically states that he teleported to within 1 FOOT of the dreads. You don't think that will bump them? ISD Reporters are also required to leave an area if requested, and this reporter refused to do so. Also, only his ISD character was banned, which I imagine is pretty standard when you are fired from ISD. He specifically states that his player character was NOT banned, he just had to start paying for it again instead of getting a free ride (oh the horror!) Infact, I did read it. You do realise that ISD has the ability to instantly stop ships in their tracks right? I assumed he did that before he teleported. It also stated he warped the the dread that was furthest away from the rest of the fleet, I assume to minimize any bumping that could have occured. Sorry for making assumptions. So, your position is that D4kkon just decided he didn't want ISD around to document our spectacular victory, and in order to remove the reporter made up a story about bumping so he could ask a dev to make the reporter leave? ... Yeah, that makes alot of sense. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that the reporter was wrong, or is not telling the entire truth. Just because what he says supports your "z0mg bob cheats!" point of view doesn't mean you should completely disengage your critical thinking and deductive logic circuits. Actually, I believe it could go either way. It's not the point that the ISD member possible bumped one dread, ONE WHOLE DREAD. It's the fact that YOUR ALLIANCE got HIM banned for no real good reason. Fired, not banned. Once again, he specifically stated that his player character was NOT banned, he just had to start paying for it again. And consider the possibility that this was not the first time someone had complained about him. If CCP thought that he was being rude in local or embarrassing the company, they have every right to fire him, especially if he had any prior offenses. That is frankly alot easier to swallow then your scenario of a dev firing someone and risking his RL job just because his e-buddies told him to. Nemo me impune lacessit
FiNAL FiGHT	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:40:00 - [2068] Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men. - Lord Acton I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you. We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us. A thought, even a possibility, can shatter and transform us. He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Rauth Kivaro Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:40:00 - [2069] Edited by: Rauth Kivaro on 26/05/2007 21:41:23 Folks, it's obvious that tempers are very high at the moment. This is understandable. Please remember that the posts to the forums must remain within the rules. Please don't flame, troll, evade the profanity filter or abuse other players. Also, don't post images inline or links to images that are flamebait/trolling. It will be snipped on sight and you will likely receive a warning. Links to other sites are fine as long as they on topic, are work and age-appropriate sites, and do not link to or refer to links that are not allowed on these forums. The CRC team is watching this thread and the rest of the forums closely and as ISD staff are EVE players ourselves we share your concerns regarding this matter. Please help us out and keep this thread civil. Thanks. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

Crapod	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:41:00 - [2070] Should be fun to know the new exploits of the day and been able to use them as game mechanic without having to think you'll be banned for this. Nahh Cpp have nothing to do with Bob and no one is cheating huh btw, no rush for nerfing the capitals bug, take your time, eve is not over bob control yet.
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:42:00 - [2071] Originally by: Sweet Majoram Quote: In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response. Now, I may be wrong here... but when sharkbait shows up in game isn't his name displayed as " CCP Sharkbait " ??? Hoaxes do suck a**... if this is a hoax please own up to it and not try to ruin something that could have lead to an improvement in gameplay! Read the thread before replying.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:42:00 - [2072] Originally by: Sochin Fired, not banned. Once again, he specifically stated that his player character was NOT banned, he just had to start paying for it again. And consider the possibility that this was not the first time someone had complained about him. If CCP thought that he was being rude in local or embarrassing the company, they have every right to fire him, especially if he had any prior offenses. That is frankly alot easier to swallow then your scenario of a dev firing someone and risking his RL job just because his e-buddies told him to. The fact that the ISD guy lost his ISD accounts is trivial in the end. The issue is that people in BoB (and presumably other alliances) have and do not hessitate to use out of game communication channels to get the devs to do things for them while the vast majority of the player base properly files petetitions and waits. Its a question of blatant favoritism on the part of CCP employees that worries me, not an ISD account being deleted. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:43:00 - [2073] Originally by: Sochin ... Perhaps you should consider the possibility that the reporter was wrong, or is not telling the entire truth. Just because what he says supports your "z0mg bob cheats!" point of view doesn't mean you should completely disengage your critical thinking and deductive logic circuits... Did you overlook all the posts criticising the direct link of BoB to the devs? That is part of the problem, no matter if the ISD member was innocent or not. I'll say it again: Favoritism is bad. But I do not expect a reply from you. You know why. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Witty Moniker Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:43:00 - [2074] Edited by: Witty Moniker on 26/05/2007 21:41:47 CBA reading 80 pages, so I'll just post my opinion here. Do you know how silly all this sounds. Are you trying to say that no one who works for a customer support company is allowed to play their own game? People have to play their own games so they can keep up with things. Do you have any idea how fast this whole game world evolves? Wake up. If all these people play, it is not unlikely that they will be in the bigger and better Corporations, for the same reason I just wrote down in the previous paragraph. It is really narrow minded of you guys to think that these employees use any of the tools or rights they have access to. There are probably loads of CCP employees all over the EVE universe. You see a CCP employee investigating something and you go mental, you see something that seems a little rough on the outside, and you go nuts. In fact, CCP don't even need to respond to all of this crap anyway. IN FACT no one even cares what you think. And will players know CCP employees? Of course some people will know. Do you expect all employees to live like hermits? Does that mean that those specific players get free stuff, and goodies? Hell no. You can you even suggest that with a straight face? Anyway ... Even though all this nonsense here is somewhat amusing, it's also very lame.
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:43:00 - [2075] 1 hour remaining! how many more pages can we get? P.s. i've come to my own conclusions about ISD event rigging. Looks like the Goon thing is mighty suspect, even if the dev has an excuse of sorts. However, the Raehkan stuff sounds really out of order, especially if the way the removal of an ISD member is dealt with is as described Khaldari
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:44:00 - [2076] Originally by: Sochin Um, I omitted it because it wasn't relevant to the point I was making. My point in that post was that it is more then probable that the ISD reporter had indeed bumped a dread at least once, and then refused to leave the grid or system after being formally requested to. Well that's all fine and dandy but it's the fact that your alliance apparently has the capacity to influence internal CCP workings via out of game means that's interesting to the rest of us, not whether or not a dread was in fact bumped.
Quilty	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:44:00 - [2077] Cancel Fanfest,explosive situation on the forums this year which may well lead to a Punchfest 2007.Dunno how big CCP's liability insurance is at these events but it aint big enough,just too much ill feeling about this place all year and dont think anyone would be surprised with the added ingredient of beer if this all kicked off,theres just no way these guys on either side of the argument can be trusted to behave.
Calvin Firenze Minmatar Subach-Tech FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:44:00 - [2078] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Calvin Firenze I'm waiting for that one goon to come clean and say...my bad, I got drunk, screen was blurry...I filed a petition. No, really, my bad y'all. Unfortunately, I don't expect any of them to have that kind of integrity. Shame Even if that were to happen it would have no bearing on the charges of the devs playing favorites over MSN. And that's all they are at this time. Charges. There is zero proof. If you go by the chat logs in that letter as proof, I pray to god you are never serve on any jury anywhere. Chat logs are easier to modify than a screenshot. I understand that BoB members have admitted to having a personal relationship with devs/GM's on MSN. This also proves nothing beyond the fact that people have engendered a relationship with other people that have created a game they enjoy. It's the same as if you have a waiter/waitress that you're friends with at a restaurant you frequent, its not immoral, its not unethical and its hardly unprofessional. Until solid proof is seen that BoB is receiving special favors as a result of these personal relationships, my stance will remain unchanged. Am I sympathizing with either side? No, I am not. What I am doing is taking things into perspective and regarding given evidence before coming to a conclusion rather than jumping on the "zomg BoB is cheating" bandwagon. Additionally, if you take past occurrences as proof of foul play now, you need to step back away from the computer, take a deep breath, and wait for CCP's response before logging back on to the eve-o forums. Everyone wants to believe CCP and BoB are in the wrong here, its the human mentality. CCP is "the man" so to speak and its a natural human reaction to feel hostility towards any figure of authority.(so many times I wanted to punch my Drill Sgt. in the face when I was in basic training) It also shocks me that everyone is believing Goonswarm right off the bat with zero evidence other than a letter that may or may not have been doctored and a couple screenshots. The screenshots prove nothing beyond the fact that Sharkbait entered DS1. Remember, I'm trying to be objective here and look at all possibilities. I suggest that others do the same. Yeah, I've made jokes in this thread. That's how I am, I like to make people laugh and I generally try to make light of damn near any subject matter. If that bothers you, too bad. this is not a signature, whatever anyone has told you is false. look away
Merc998	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:45:00 - [2079] Originally by: Rauth Kivaro Edited by: Rauth Kivaro on 26/05/2007 21:41:23 Folks, it's obvious that tempers are very high at the moment. This is understandable. Please remember that the posts to the forums must remain within the rules. Please don't flame, troll, evade the profanity filter or abuse other players. Also, don't post images inline or links to images that are flamebait/trolling. It will be snipped on sight and you will likely receive a warning. Links to other sites are fine as long as they on topic, are work and age-appropriate sites, and do not link to or refer to links that are not allowed on these forums. The CRC team is watching this thread and the rest of the forums closely and as ISD staff are EVE players ourselves we share your concerns regarding this matter. Please help us out and keep this thread civil. Thanks. Just out of interest did a BoB member MSN you and ask you to intervene as they are having a hard time on here ? Nope. -Rauth
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:46:00 - [2080] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Sochin Did you even read your "Open Letter"? The reporter specifically states that he teleported to within 1 FOOT of the dreads. You don't think that will bump them? ISD Reporters are also required to leave an area if requested, and this reporter refused to do so. Also, only his ISD character was banned, which I imagine is pretty standard when you are fired from ISD. He specifically states that his player character was NOT banned, he just had to start paying for it again instead of getting a free ride (oh the horror!) You kind of omitted the part where Orange Species said he'd contact CCP staff members over MSN and then moments a dev completely unrelated to the "bumping" events turns up in the ISD channel to chew the reporter out. That to me is the most interesting part of the whole event. Um, I omitted it because it wasn't relevant to the point I was making. My point in that post was that it is more then probable that the ISD reporter had indeed bumped a dread at least once, and then refused to leave the grid or system after being formally requested to. Supposing the ISD reporter in question did, accidentally "bump" a dread when he /commanded to the area to view the fight. In this case, I find it hard to believe that one accidental bump is worth demanding that he leave the system, especially when he's doing his job. Further, as a player I never feel that demands of "leave the system" or "move out of the region" from other players are binding. If what you are saying is a correct statement about how the game functions, i.e. commands from BoB leaders are as binding as direct orders from CCP employees, then I think you've proven the point of everyone you are arguing against. Frankly, it should never be the case that a player can demand something and those they are making the demands of have to obey. If you have a problem with a particular player, you are certainly free to ask them to leave a system, you are even free to open a petition, like everyone else in the game. The moment, in any MMO, that you can simply "MSN" an employee of the game, who is your friend, and say "get rid of X," thereby completely circumventing the proper petition process, and X is then gotten rid of a few minutes later, there is something seriouslly wrong with how the game is functioning. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Kian Jorry Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:47:00 - [2081] Out of interest, who are CCP's shareholders and what is their position on this? Or are they all in BoB too?
Tieger Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:47:00 - [2082] Ive heard that if you cry another 100 pages, a jump portal to Jove space will appear somewhere in curse. You can do it! Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:47:00 - [2083] Originally by: Witty Moniker Edited by: Witty Moniker on 26/05/2007 21:41:47 CBA reading 80 pages, so I'll just post my opinion here. Do you know how silly all this sounds. Are you trying to say that no one who works for a customer support company is allowed to play their own game? People have to play their own games so they can keep up with things. Do you have any idea how fast this whole game world evolves? Wake up. If all these people play, it is not unlikely that they will be in the bigger and better Corporations, for the same reason I just wrote down in the previous paragraph. It is really narrow minded of you guys to think that these employees use any of the tools or rights they have access to. There are probably loads of CCP employees all over the EVE universe. You see a CCP employee investigating something and you go mental, you see something that seems a little rough on the outside, and you go nuts. In fact, CCP don't even need to respond to all of this crap anyway. IN FACT no one even cares what you think. And will players know CCP employees? Of course some people will know. Do you expect all employees to live like hermits? Does that mean that those specific players get free stuff, and goodies? Hell no. You can you even suggest that with a straight face? Anyway ... Even though all this nonsense here is somewhat amusing, it's also very lame. As has been said by myself before, they can play all they damn well please. When they start helping out their buddies, it becomes a problem. As shown with the many BoB scandals as of late, it doesn't work. CCP employees out of everyone should respect their game and not **** it up for everyone except a select group.
Letti Casta	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:47:00 - [2084] ok fine, I'll just post a google link, should be fine for all ages, safe search is even on. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=eve-online+corruption&spell=1
Raketenkaese	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:47:00 - [2085] Originally by: Andrue I know which sounds more likely to me. You seem to be forgetting that CCP already have a history with this kind of incidents. Which makes it more or less likely?
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:48:00 - [2086] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 21:47:09 Originally by: Merc998 Originally by: Rauth Kivaro Edited by: Rauth Kivaro on 26/05/2007 21:41:23 Folks, it's obvious that tempers are very high at the moment. This is understandable. Please remember that the posts to the forums must remain within the rules. Please don't flame, troll, evade the profanity filter or abuse other players. Also, don't post images inline or links to images that are flamebait/trolling. It will be snipped on sight and you will likely receive a warning. Links to other sites are fine as long as they on topic, are work and age-appropriate sites, and do not link to or refer to links that are not allowed on these forums. The CRC team is watching this thread and the rest of the forums closely and as ISD staff are EVE players ourselves we share your concerns regarding this matter. Please help us out and keep this thread civil. Thanks. Where can we find out what links "aren't allowed on these forums?" Thanks in advance.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:48:00 - [2087] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 26/05/2007 21:46:50 Originally by: Witty Moniker Are you trying to say that no one who works for a customer support company is allowed to play their own game? Of course they can play their own game. But they shouldn't play it with the general playerbase and/or maintain personal friendships with small sections of the playerbase as it's become abundantly clear that it is impossible for them to do so and remain wholly impartial.
Vozzek	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:48:00 - [2088] Originally by: Sweet Majoram Quote: In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response. Now, I may be wrong here... but when sharkbait shows up in game isn't his name displayed as " CCP Sharkbait " ??? Hoaxes do suck a**... if this is a hoax please own up to it and not try to ruin something that could have lead to an improvement in gameplay! As I said a few pages ago, the screenshot is real, but it is from several months ago. Sharkbait was "responding" to people complaining about lag.
Katarina Hetiako Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:50:00 - [2089] This is all pretty sad... I guess BoB could ask that CCP and their associates remove any accounts associated with the alliance? I assume this would hit BoB hard at the top and so don't think it is likely. I wish BoB would make a stand for the good of the playerbase instead of standing their saying 'proof or stfu'... Yup, I'm an alt... if only you could see my main... he's so strong and tough!
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:50:00 - [2090] Originally by: Quilty Cancel Fanfest,explosive situation on the forums this year which may well lead to a Punchfest 2007.Dunno how big CCP's liability insurance is at these events but it aint big enough,just too much ill feeling about this place all year and dont think anyone would be surprised with the added ingredient of beer if this all kicked off,theres just no way these guys on either side of the argument can be trusted to behave. If you believe this you are a moron, fanfest is a party to get drunk and discuss the game with other players and CCP. It wont turn into a giant fight. If anything a more intelligent, closer discussion with CCP will happen.
Nullity Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:50:00 - [2091] Originally by: Merc998 Originally by: Rauth Kivaro Edited by: Rauth Kivaro on 26/05/2007 21:41:23 Folks, it's obvious that tempers are very high at the moment. This is understandable. Please remember that the posts to the forums must remain within the rules. Please don't flame, troll, evade the profanity filter or abuse other players. Also, don't post images inline or links to images that are flamebait/trolling. It will be snipped on sight and you will likely receive a warning. Links to other sites are fine as long as they on topic, are work and age-appropriate sites, and do not link to or refer to links that are not allowed on these forums. The CRC team is watching this thread and the rest of the forums closely and as ISD staff are EVE players ourselves we share your concerns regarding this matter. Please help us out and keep this thread civil. Thanks. Just out of interest did a BoB member MSN you and ask you to intervene as they are having a hard time on here ? Nope. -Rauth You have the best signature... ever.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:51:00 - [2092] Originally by: Calvin Firenze And that's all they are at this time. Charges. There is zero proof. If you go by the chat logs in that letter as proof, I pray to god you are never serve on any jury anywhere. Chat logs are easier to modify than a screenshot. I understand that BoB members have admitted to having a personal relationship with devs/GM's on MSN. This also proves nothing beyond the fact that people have engendered a relationship with other people that have created a game they enjoy. I'd say theres enough evidence for a prima facie case at this point. Granted thats a completely different standard than beyond a resonable doubt, but as it stands the evidence for is looking stronger than the evidence against. And for the record I've never stated that any of this has been proven (assuming that term is taken to mean beyond a resonable doubt), so please don't try to argue assuming that I have. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Letti Casta	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:53:00 - [2093] Originally by: Haloskeeter It wont turn into a giant fight. sure would be interesting if it did though, lol
Kalestra Cable Faust Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:54:00 - [2094] Originally by: Haloskeeter If you believe this you are a moron, fanfest is a party to get drunk and discuss the game with other players and CCP. It wont turn into a giant fight. If anything a more intelligent, closer discussion with CCP will happen. LOL.. Tbh get drunk start a fight and it's a decent Friday night.
Calvin Firenze Minmatar Subach-Tech FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:54:00 - [2095] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Calvin Firenze And that's all they are at this time. Charges. There is zero proof. If you go by the chat logs in that letter as proof, I pray to god you are never serve on any jury anywhere. Chat logs are easier to modify than a screenshot. I understand that BoB members have admitted to having a personal relationship with devs/GM's on MSN. This also proves nothing beyond the fact that people have engendered a relationship with other people that have created a game they enjoy. I'd say theres enough evidence for a prima facie case at this point. Granted thats a completely different standard than beyond a resonable doubt, but as it stands the evidence for is looking stronger than the evidence against. And for the record I've never stated that any of this has been proven (assuming that term is taken to mean beyond a resonable doubt), so please don't try to argue assuming that I have. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't pointing the finger at you specifically, but the collective eve community that has assumed so. Yes, I agree there's evidence to look into it, but not the evidence to wave the pink slips around the CCP office without investigation. I apologize that it sounded as if I made an attack on you -.- this is not a signature, whatever anyone has told you is false. look away
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:54:00 - [2096] Originally by: Letti Casta Originally by: Haloskeeter It wont turn into a giant fight. sure would be interesting if it did though, lol BoB versus GoonSwarm versus CCP Who will win this epic showdown, tune it at 7 o' clock to find out!
dralid M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:56:00 - [2097] In my personal opinion, GOONS are just a bunch of whiners who look for all reasons to try to explain their failures. Comon, go annoy WoW please, and let the real boys play here! Where do the wild roses grow?
Kukki Gallente ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:57:00 - [2098] Originally by: Kukki Lol Link snipped for trolling - Karass Sayfo is realy hard. Even if its 5 or 6 month ago. But it shows how intelligent even the GM's are in this Game. And I got a warning by GM's for using offensive language. Jea. You are the best Gm's. Im not trolling at this point. This is not funny in every single way. So as you read this put the link back to it's place in an instant. This is Zensur. We live in a free land and in my opinion other people have to know how the GM's ***** around. _________________________________________________________________ Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:57:00 - [2099] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch You kind of omitted the part where Orange Species said he'd contact CCP staff members over MSN and then moments a dev completely unrelated to the "bumping" events turns up in the ISD channel to chew the reporter out. That to me is the most interesting part of the whole event. Um, I omitted it because it wasn't relevant to the point I was making. My point in that post was that it is more then probable that the ISD reporter had indeed bumped a dread at least once, and then refused to leave the grid or system after being formally requested to. If you don't like how someone acts you should petition him like every other player has to do also. Or if that is too much work to you then you must silence up. What you MUST NOT do, and that is simply cheating, is bypassing the game mechanics and just call your friends at ccp via msn and avoiding all game-mechanics to get an instant response. The normal player CANNOT do that! Is this so difficult to understand or what? The normal player has to wait days or even longer. I had to wait once 2 weeks for a reply, i couldn't unanchor my pos because the guns were buggy. Of course I would have liked some friend there at ccp whom i could call and ask him if he could look at the problem. But no, I had to wait like everyone else and that is how it should be. Your reply shows only how rotten you are. For you it seems perfectly normal that you use msn to communicate with the devs/GMs to get some quick in-game results. For you it is already that normal that you don't even feel bad about doing it! Interesting, but somehow not really surprising.
Miusho Hyrule Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:57:00 - [2100] Edited by: Miusho on 26/05/2007 21:56:22 lol. I've lost hope for humanity by reading this thread.
Iron McFly CHAF tech	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:58:00 - [2101] Origanally by Malloc Memrel - Quote: "As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good reason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. "And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. - end Quote My take: -) We have screen shots of CCP bugging a corp's POS without so much as a petition for cause. snip Inappropriate link. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) -) Someone in game's largest alliance called someone in CCP via MSN and the result was an ISD was banned for little or no reason - while other players and corps wait weeks on petitions through normal channels - STINK. We'd all be idiots not to wonder if such influence goes to collusion affecting battles, not just BPO. -) Mirial discovered CCP was rigging in game events -and- CCP has a history of cover up - STINK. Are we suppose to have patience while CCP continues a lock-ban-delete or 'quarentine to one thread and ignore it' behavior ? Maybe it is too late - can anything be done to undo the special knowledge and possible influence of some players, BoB or other, have through personal lines of comm to CCP insiders ? Would it take 10-20 firings to purge CCP of collusion ? CCP has to deal with this Openly and Severly. Otherwise EVE is Polluted to Ruin by the repeat of Dev misconduct. From game magazines to gamer websites to EVE's locals all CCP will have is Flames and Rants that the game is not Open Ended, but in fact Rigged and Manipulated !
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 21:58:00 - [2102] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 22:01:54 Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 21:59:31 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 21:47:09 Originally by: Merc998 Originally by: Rauth Kivaro Edited by: Rauth Kivaro on 26/05/2007 21:41:23 Folks, it's obvious that tempers are very high at the moment. This is understandable. Please remember that the posts to the forums must remain within the rules. Please don't flame, troll, evade the profanity filter or abuse other players. Also, don't post images inline or links to images that are flamebait/trolling. It will be snipped on sight and you will likely receive a warning. Links to other sites are fine as long as they on topic, are work and age-appropriate sites, and do not link to or refer to links that are not allowed on these forums. The CRC team is watching this thread and the rest of the forums closely and as ISD staff are EVE players ourselves we share your concerns regarding this matter. Please help us out and keep this thread civil. Thanks. Where can we find out what links "aren't allowed on these forums?" Thanks in advance. I've just reviewed the forum rules- there isn't any indication of which websites can't be linked. Is it just kugutsumen? Or does it include the Open Letter on goon's forums Could you guys clarify how it's decided? Cause I'm going to be honest, deleting posts and warning people for committing offenses that they aren't even aware of isn't really in line with the 'no censorship' thing that Arkanon was crowing about near the beginning of the thread. Whoops, missed your earlier response, thanks.
Merc998	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:01:00 - [2103] Could you guys clarify how it's decided? at a guess if it makes CCP or BoB look bad dont post the link unless you dont mind losing your forum posting rights... as I said its only a guess but seeing as how we are not given a list of "Acceptable" websites its a lottery really Good luck snip Do not troll with your signature please -Eldo ([email protected])
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:02:00 - [2104] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Marovinchian Goonfleet forums: "Guys, we are getting absolutely annihilated out here...it's time now to deploy our only means of defense....SPAM, SPAM THE FORUMS, SPAM YOUR LOCAL CHANNELS, BOB ARE CHEATERS, EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN GAME IS THEM CHEATING AND CCP HELPING THEM, WITH ALL YOU HAVE SPAM THE VERY DEPTHS OF OUTER SPACE UNTIL ALL OF EVE IS DESTROYED" seriously guys...lose with some class seriously guys, stop cheating and fight with some class? Oh wait... that is getting lame, right? Why don't you say anything at all to the accusations and only throw dirt an the messenger instead of replying to the message? This makes you (looking) really stupid. Noone has actually been shown to have cheated. BoB is being accused of contacting a dev to get an ISD reporter to stop bumping our dreads while they were shooting a pos. That action did not give BoB any advantage over our enemies. The worst you can say is that it might be inappropriate, but obviously it is not "cheating". Can you give any evidence that noone was cheating? On the whole I think noone has shown himself to be a lot more trustworth than BoB, although his actual involvement into this afair is somewhat obscure. At least noone never calls his powerful dev friends to get other players of the game kicked out. Apparently noone doesn't have their MSN information. When you have to resort to criticizing someone's grammar or spelling in order to try and win an argument, it means you have already lost. Yep, agreed. It's a bit like all the ad hominem arguments you have been leveling again the goons ... Then again, it doesn't seem like you had a tenable position anyway, especially after Dianabolic gave it all away ... Kudos for showing up in this thread though, personally, I wouldn't have attached my reputation to such a losing cause ... Guess you mustn't have much of a reputation to lose ... --
Soto ShinDo Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:04:00 - [2105] Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Viktor Bout And by "Us all" you mean BoD. Cry more pleaze. Your tears make me laugh. By us all, I mean the whole EVE-ONLINE community of players. As it has been said many times b4, these un-constructive trolls and flames, are only making this thread, and for example CAOD in sense utterly disappointing. And in general the WHOLE COMMUNITY feels sick and tired of people who aims to break the community. You sir, aint helping. And you, lady, how of all people dare you speak in the name of the community. If you can read you should've noticed that the vast majority of the community is rather opposed to BOB and the strange relationship between some of BOBs members and CCP GMs/DEVs. Let me tell you - you do not speak in my name.
Yakti Hedion University	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:04:00 - [2106] Grow up Goons, and don't come crying all the time, jeez ...
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:04:00 - [2107] Edited by: Poolpy on 26/05/2007 22:03:21 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Cause I'm going to be honest, deleting posts and warning people for committing offenses that they aren't even aware of isn't really in line with the 'no censorship' thing that Arkanon was crowing about near the beginning of the thread. The "no censorship" thingy in Arkanon post it's only for the lulz. How can he post something like that without laughing his ass off ?
Nighlighted Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:05:00 - [2108] Originally by: Witty Moniker Edited by: Witty Moniker on 26/05/2007 21:41:47 CBA reading 80 pages, so I'll just post my opinion here. Do you know how silly all this sounds. Are you trying to say that no one who works for a customer support company is allowed to play their own game? Just a quick note or two here. I really did not want to post anything on this, but I feel that Witty (or the person behind the character) has forgotten something. I don't feel that there is anything wrong with DEVs and GMs playing the game. The problem I have and most people have is that really there is no way of stopping them from using their advanced powers to make the outcome more favorable for them. Thats the real problem here. No amount of spin, rumor control, or threats can change that. Granted all these allegations will have to be looked into by a database admin, but if true they could be very damaging. The main point I'm trying to make here is that CCP should be working for CCP and not some in game alliance. How are they going to attract new players if the potential noobs find out that the company only lets one group of people win. Not to speak of how many of us who play already will continue to play when time after time we hear that BOB has the Devs on MSN and can get ISD members fired. At that point, why not have BOB run ISD and everything else. But the company is not named BOB, its named CCP, and must face down the potential PR loss. It is CCP who must answer for the allegations and to those who place them forward. And CCP will take the brunt of people's criticisms both here, and probally in a board room somewhere. The only thing BOB should be worried about is the Goons 1,000 Tech 1 frigate attack of doom. To Summerize: BOB should let CCP come to the conclusions, and deal with the outcome while BOB should focus on the GoonFleets waves of doom by using a Titan.
Phoebus Athenian Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:06:00 - [2109] On the other hand, here's an easy fix... BAN all CCP staff or related peoples from the game. We're paying YOU to play a game where you're king? If so all the talk about a "sandbox" for players is false. BoD already owns most of the sand, what castles are we to build then? ---
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:06:00 - [2110] Originally by: dralid In my personal opinion, GOONS are just a bunch of whiners who look for all reasons to try to explain their failures. Comon, go annoy WoW please, and let the real boys play here! You're just bitter you're not training our newbies anymore.
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:07:00 - [2111] Originally by: Sweet Majoram Quote: In related news, GM sharkbait has finally given DS1 a response. Now, I may be wrong here... but when sharkbait shows up in game isn't his name displayed as " CCP Sharkbait " ??? Hoaxes do suck a**... if this is a hoax please own up to it and not try to ruin something that could have lead to an improvement in gameplay! Yes, he shows up as CCP sharbait now, but a few months ago, which is when that pic was taken, he was just 'sharkbait'. Look at the sov in that picture. TCF own I-N, not Maelstrom.
Yunii Freedom Builders Inc. Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:07:00 - [2112] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 21:47:09 Originally by: Merc998 Originally by: Rauth Kivaro Edited by: Rauth Kivaro on 26/05/2007 21:41:23 Folks, it's obvious that tempers are very high at the moment. This is understandable. Please remember that the posts to the forums must remain within the rules. Please don't flame, troll, evade the profanity filter or abuse other players. Also, don't post images inline or links to images that are flamebait/trolling. It will be snipped on sight and you will likely receive a warning. Links to other sites are fine as long as they on topic, are work and age-appropriate sites, and do not link to or refer to links that are not allowed on these forums. The CRC team is watching this thread and the rest of the forums closely and as ISD staff are EVE players ourselves we share your concerns regarding this matter. Please help us out and keep this thread civil. Thanks. Where can we find out what links "aren't allowed on these forums?" Thanks in advance. I've just reviewed the forum rules- there isn't any indication of which websites can't be linked. snip Please see your previous post for an answer to your question. -Rauth Rauth, Why did you remove his last sentence with your edit? He didn't link, he didn't say anything that should have been removed imo. I didn't precive anything wrong with it ? Is even mentioning that name a crime with a capital punishment ?
Dharmista	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:08:00 - [2113] i guess this sorta makes a mateas saying somewhat true We arnt Pve'ing or PVP'ing.... we are PVCCP'ing
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:09:00 - [2114] Thre possible cases. 1. Your all wrong and should step it down a bit (let CCP hande their own company and don't be such omggovernmentconspiracyhiddenufoproject as the guy at the corner tugging his tinfoilwrapped shoppingcart around). 2. You'r all right and the creators of EvE are willingly and deliberatly destroying their playerbase. 3. You'r partially right. CCP wants certain alliances to grow strong and fat (BoB is one example). To what end? Well I for one would stick to the game just to find out. EvE is the best invention since...well Eve (the part with the collarbone from Adam seems kinda fishy to me though). If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:10:00 - [2115] This is getting scary... Hell even if the 2nd part (the banned ISD guy) was false this doesn't explain the 'BoB and CCP are buddies' thing... I mean hi ranking bob members posting this themselves? ccp please don't turn this game into 'BoB online' i like it too much for that. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:10:00 - [2116] Originally by: Thargat Thre possible cases. 1. Your all wrong and should step it down a bit (let CCP hande their own company and don't be such omggovernmentconspiracyhiddenufoproject as the guy at the corner tugging his tinfoilwrapped shoppingcart around). 2. You'r all right and the creators of EvE are willingly and deliberatly destroying their playerbase. 3. You'r partially right. CCP wants certain alliances to grow strong and fat (BoB is one example). To what end? Well I for one would stick to the game just to find out. EvE is the best invention since...well Eve (the part with the collarbone from Adam seems kinda fishy to me though). Nuh-uh, WoW is the best thing to happen ever you don't know what you're talking about - Haloskeeter 70 Hunter Deathwing
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:12:00 - [2117] Originally by: D'Artagnan you will understand they beat you because they are better. Did you beat them before or after you got t2 bpo's spawned by a gm? -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:13:00 - [2118] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 22:12:35 Originally by: Merc998 Originally by: Rauth Kivaro I've just reviewed the forum rules- there isn't any indication of which websites can't be linked. snip Please see your previous post for an answer to your question. -Rauth Rauth, Why did you remove his last sentence with your edit? He didn't link, he didn't say anything that should have been removed imo. I didn't precive anything wrong with it ? Is even mentioning that name a crime with a capital punishment ? I just sent [email protected] an email asking about a number of websites, including this question: "If not [cannot be posted], why not? I have reviewed the forum rules and would be happy to refer to whatever section of them prohibits these sites from being posted. Just give me a place or section # to look at!" I am sure the mods will get back to me in good time, with logical reasons and not stonewall this. I would truly hate for Arkanon to be shown to have been dishonest.
Constantine Arcanum IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:19:00 - [2119] Another? Well ****in' done CCP.
An Anarchyyt	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:20:00 - [2120] Originally by: Andrue CCP is not a government (it's a private company) and the game and its forums are not public spaces. Put simply:CCP have as much right to delete posts and control discussions on here as you do to prevent people from entering your home. Your remedy under the law is not to participate if you don't like it. To go on a minor unrelated tangent, for no reason at all... This would actually be a large grey area, and I can only speak from the US Perspective, and I won't even touch the fact that CCP is based in Iceland, but the Server is in the United Kingdom, thus falling into some weird area of international law, so just bear with me. So, while the company is private, the internet is not a private venture, the server doesn't do much good without the internet backbone. And, the US government has indeed ruled the internet as a whole is a frespeech zone, given to at least the same protection as newspapers, books, and the like (See: Reno v. ACLU). I am trying to keep everything brief here, and not go indepth on anything. But basically, even though the above is true, and that you are entitled to free speech on the internet, and a private company still has to grant people certain rights, there is one thing here that makes this point moot, and this whole post worthless. When you signed on to EVE, and agreed the TOS, pretty much, it just says you are here at the pleasure of CCP. So while you did begin with these rights, you pretty much signed them all away. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if sometime in the next 10-15 years there was some kind of court case brought up about this type of case, especially as MMOs become more and more popular among mainstream pop culture. So now, back to your regularly scheduled flames, rants, and ad hominems.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:21:00 - [2121] Then again, it would be nice to know why so many people got banned yesterday without warning, after they spoke out allegations? And this Helmar guy was talking about transparency and changes after the T20 incident. Bannig everyone how speak it out? Censoring?
Merc998	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:23:00 - [2122] Originally by: Illiya So this thread is CCP's proof to the community that you're being open and honest and want to discuss things with the community but moderators won't allow websites to be linked, gm chatlogs to be posted, or gm decisions to be discussed? Am I reading this right? Of Course not Arakanon said in this very thread that CCP dont censor... Thats right isnt it Eldo.. YOU did read that part from your IA guy didnt YOU? Unless of course that doesnt apply to Eldo , did you get an MSN message from someone that this thread wasnt going the way they wanted ? snip Don't discuss moderation and don't troll -Eldo ([email protected])
Damon Ra Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:24:00 - [2123] Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Could I please get someone at CCP to define what the following two terms mean exactly in the context used in the above quoted statement. 1) Censor 2) Silence I am asking because it seems that I must be using a different definition of these terms and want to be on the same page as CCP. Current Tranquility status: SELECT production_code FROM SISI WHERE testers = 'players' AND testers <> 'ccp_staff' AND testing_duration <> 'sufficient';
Caldarin	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:24:00 - [2124] Rauth Kivaro ISD Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department, I appreciate your comments to keep this discussion calm but I hope you are seeing from the overwhelming response that your players, lets call them clients, for the purposes of this conversation are not happy with the mismanagement of Eve. I have now played pretty much all the mmorpgs. Starting with UO and watching the infamous execution as the game breathed life, and life has passed me some very interesting opportunities over the last 10+ years. Invites to beta test new games, even joining a renowned Korean clan for guild wars and nothing has compared to Eve. But thatÆs why Eve is all the more important to protect. I have also seen games wither through a lack of basic respect for the client base. SWG imploded itself, UO changed its format and others committed equally naive acts. We will not let that happen to Eve and we will make sure you address this second time round! I thought you had learned from your mistake but this goes to show that you neither considered the last abuse of trust by your employees serious enough to deal with or worthy of placing significant protocols in place to ensure that we as your clients continue to trust you as custodians of the world of eve, by saying this must never happen again. You may think you own Eve but it lives and dies by our hands. I am extremely disappointed, no disgusted, at the team that is responsible for evolving mmorpg to the next level for such a basic mistake and them making it again. You need to with immediate effect remove any doubt from our minds as to the way you behave when entering the world of eve. While a lot of what has been said so far in previous posts reads between lines of a grey situation it is clear from our response that we are losing faith in your ability to manage the game we all commit huge hours too. æWe will come back in a day or twoÆ is not an acceptable response. You have undermined our faith in many elements within the Eve world and countless doubts exist for some of the more well known groups. We need a clear time frame when the outcome of this investigation will be published. A clear time frame for the issue and implementation of new policies and a clear and visible separation of staff from the player base.
Orion Intaki	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:24:00 - [2125] Originally by: Mindlles Why not stay online and fight goonies. So manny goon players i have had logged under my scramble i just insane. Yes we now goons sucks, yes we know ur a rastic bunch off players that cant succed in this game. But plz, plz plz. Stay online insteed of that bloody metagaming. And if ccp have failed or cheat i hope staff get thier punisment, but reading that open mail, i see one dude that is a worthless reporter wich i would personlay called primary for bumping my dreads, and alot off bitter goons that just fail and thats why they complain. Bob die just as easy as annyone els in this game if u know how to play the game.. Translated somewhat Why not stay online and fight goonies. So manny goon players that have logged off when I have warp scrambled them. Yes we know goons sucks, yes we know you are a ??rastic?? bunch off players that cannot succeedin this game. But plz, plz plz. Stay online insteed of that bloody posting on the forums (metagaming). And if CCP has failed or cheated I hope that those staff recive thier punishment, but after reading that open mail, I see only one person that is a worthless reporter which ??I would personally think responisble and blame for bumping my dread??, and a lot of bitter goons complain because they have failed at the game. BOB players die just as easy as anyone else in this game if you know how to play the game.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:25:00 - [2126] Originally by: Illiya So this thread is CCP's proof to the community that you're being open and honest and want to discuss things with the community but moderators won't allow websites to be linked, gm chatlogs to be posted, or gm decisions to be discussed? Am I reading this right? it is THEIR website. why would they want to proliferate your witch hunt by allowing you to link every single website your running around trying to drum up anti-ccp sentiment at? you have something awful, go wild, its but an address bar away! i dont suppose all this has anything to do with all that yellow beside us that just turned blue on the auto-sov map?? not even a bit? all your members are simply 'concerned for the community'. goons. trying to burn ccp's reputation and game to the ground and make everyone believe its for the betterment of the community. you can try to sell stupid. but you should know.. not everyone is gonna buy
Lucre STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:25:00 - [2127] Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. Very carefully chosen words I see. Except some of us remember the "last time" when people were given a thread to talk openly in without censor or silencing (whilst being censored and silenced everywhere else). And then after 100 or so pages of comment, much of it hitting the nail on the head, CCP proceeded to lock the thread, regurgitate the announcement people had spent 100 pages telling you was inadequate and then censored and silenced any further comment... I see nothing in your statement above promising that you won't do exactly the same again here. We don't need you to "read and consider" the (good) advice you're being given. We need you to act on it. No more "just trust us" - it won't work now. Clean your act up and eliminate this secrecy and censorship culture. Because otherwise this may well be the last straw for very many of us. I'm sure we're not the only corp where people are actively saying "okay, what other games are there we could go to as a corp?". That didn't happen last time. Now it is...
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:27:00 - [2128] Originally by: "Dianabolic" You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). As a professional data warehouser and semi-hobby game developer, I have many things to say about this. For those who don't have some history of confirmed CCP Developer misconduct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EVE_Online#Developer_Misconduct Now, we have yet another confirmed case of developer misconduct. In this instance, it is freely admitted and flaunted that specific alliance(s) have Devs/GM's at their beckon call. My response to the points: 1. Rigged RP story lines. Well, this really does not matter. I've seen rigged RP story lines before, and I've participated in them. Its not that big a deal, and might even be considered an industry standard. Where the line gets drawn, though, is the rewards that get given out. 2. CCP Sharkbait joining a corp, getting director access, visiting a POS, and leaving the corp. This is slightly more interesting and entertaining than the above issue. This is in all likelihood a simple case of insufficient communication with paying customers. 3. The subsequent petition being deleted without being answered. This should not even be possible - let alone happening. Even if the above item were complete above-board (which had a 95%/5% ratio of being true), this action alone reeks of poor customer service and a cover-up. Of course, now the odds are much more akin to 25%/75% that this was above board. 4. The abstract issue that BOB had an ISD member fired: Not really important. What's really much more important is the manner in which this happened. MSN is enough to get someone fired? Really? I have to use a petition if there's something amiss and I disagree with what CCP/ISD/a GM has done. As a software developer, I have contacts in certain companies and industries. I went to school with some, had drinks with some, laughed, and joked with some. But if I ever suggested to one of those people that they should somehow favor me or my company in such a manner, we would both be fired. 5. MSN access to Devs/GM's. This is the main sticking point, really. Certain groups of players should not have GM/Dev access that other groups do not have, ever. Yet, this is calmly confirmed and flaunted. Furthermore, its "justified" because they've been playing the game for years. This is simply unacceptable. Its always been said that money talks and BS walks. I think that's not quite true in this case. It seems that BS talks and money walks now. I think that I will delay a tiny bit and see how CCP handles this particular disaster before walking with my money. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Dana Topal	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:27:00 - [2129] can anyone say WOHO?! less people will be playing on a sunday night! less lag! woho!
Haloskeeter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:28:00 - [2130] Originally by: Mindlles Why not stay online and fight goonies. So manny goon players i have had logged under my scramble i just insane. Yes we now goons sucks, yes we know ur a rastic bunch off players that cant succed in this game. But plz, plz plz. Stay online insteed of that bloody metagaming. And if ccp have failed or cheat i hope staff get thier punisment, but reading that open mail, i see one dude that is a worthless reporter wich i would personlay called primary for bumping my dreads, and alot off bitter goons that just fail and thats why they complain. Bob die just as easy as annyone els in this game if u know how to play the game.. I love how you accuse goons of logging at every situation, 0utbreak has done it plenty of time, so has BoB. snip Do not evade the profanity filter and please do not attack other players in that manner. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Orion Intaki	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:29:00 - [2131] Originally by: Haloskeeter Originally by: Mindlles Why not stay online and fight goonies. So manny goon players i have had logged under my scramble i just insane. Yes we now goons sucks, yes we know ur a rastic bunch off players that cant succed in this game. But plz, plz plz. Stay online insteed of that bloody metagaming. And if ccp have failed or cheat i hope staff get thier punisment, but reading that open mail, i see one dude that is a worthless reporter wich i would personlay called primary for bumping my dreads, and alot off bitter goons that just fail and thats why they complain. Bob die just as easy as annyone els in this game if u know how to play the game.. I love how you accuse goons of logging at every situation, 0utbreak has done it plenty of time, so has BoB. removed snipped parts of quoted post. -Hango. I guess I didn't need to translate that into English.
Seaborgium	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:30:00 - [2132] Quote: If you have questions about whether a link is allowed, please send it to [email protected] and we'll provide a response. Thanks for your understanding. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) Can't I just have your MSN address and do it that way? It'd be a lot faster, and apparently all the other players get them. I mean, I'm supposed to have direct access to you right? I've been playing for almost a year.
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:31:00 - [2133] Originally by: dralid Originally by: Haloskeeter Originally by: dralid In my personal opinion, GOONS are just a bunch of whiners who look for all reasons to try to explain their failures. Comon, go annoy WoW please, and let the real boys play here! You're just bitter you're not training our newbies anymore. And you people are just bitter tout court! Dear dralid, First, I don't think anyone's "whining" about anything. We are, however, asking questions -- as are many players now from many different coprs/allainces. Second, as for failures, the questions being asked have nothing to do with Goon failures, which if you look at the political map, do not seem to be all that numerous since the GS has taken over quite a bit of 0.0 space. GS has had both failures and victories -- like any alliance. And now, it seems, at least according to the map, they've had far more victories than failures. Soooo, it seems GS is not trying to do anytihng but get some answers. Third, not quite sure whose bitter in Goons. They all seem a bit insane to me, but not really all that bitter since they've crushed just about everything and everyone in their path. The stalmate now with BOB and the recent loss of 9-9 soverignty is hardly reason for a whole alliance to whine and make up false charegs out of thin air -- especially when that alliance has huge chunks of space. Think befor eyou accuse. What we're talking about here -- let me say it again for you -- is apparent unfairness and inappropriate actions on the part of SOME devs helping one particular alliance. I don't care who the alliance is, TBH, whether its BOB, Goons, ASCN, LV, Rule of Three, Roadkill, blah blah blah. I don't care. Heck, if BOB were to win this game fair and square, take over all of 0.0, I'd be the first to say, "Man, you guys ROCK! Awesome. I cn'at believe you did this. Great accomplishment." But the qualifying words are "fair and square." Do you get this at all??? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Soto ShinDo Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:31:00 - [2134] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 22:06:19 Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 21:59:31 Could you guys clarify how it's decided? Cause I'm going to be honest, deleting posts and warning people for committing offenses that they aren't even aware of isn't really in line with the 'no censorship' thing that Arkanon was crowing about near the beginning of the thread. Please see the response in your first post asking this question and do not post this question again, as you are cluttering the thread. Email [email protected] if you aren't sure a link is appropriate. Thank you. -Rauth LOOOOOOOL Sorry, but that's the most ridiculous thing I've read in this whole post. Email the mods to ask if a link is appropriate? Come on, you're joking, no? This is as close to censorship as anything can possibly be.
Plim Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:31:00 - [2135] Originally by: dralid In my personal opinion, GOONS are just a bunch of whiners who look for all reasons to try to explain their failures. Comon, go annoy WoW please, and let the real boys play here! How about you actually try and deal with the information provided, instead of making some irrelevant dig at goons? You would think that there is one thing that the entire player base could agree on, that we should do something about exploitation and dev corruption. Apparantly not. Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
Doctor West	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:33:00 - [2136] Originally by: HankMurphy goons. trying to burn ccp's reputation and game to the ground and make everyone believe its for the betterment of the community. They burned that rep themselves, don't shoot the messenger. Also I'm appalled that IA hasn't responded to this in more detail yet, if only to calm down the riot that is at hand. At my company we'd have everyone in working right now, not just a few moderators sniping posts. This is already starting to cost CCP alot more that it had to. But I guess this general mismanagement is simply symptomatic of the current corporate climate.
Elspeth Vigneron Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:33:00 - [2137] Originally by: WhitePhantom Originally by: Mahavy Seth CCP Tomorrow Response To All This: BoB POS was bugged in the ion cell augmentaion idrodynamic propeller piston, and need a CCP developer to join the alliance as a director because in no other way we was able to solve the problem. Regarding all other allegations, it seems that some peoples take great delight to uncover what they think it is true. The fact that BoB is always involved is merely an unlicky event. We close this topic and we will ban everyone will again talk about this. Your post isn't exactly funny. I think some people are taking a game to far, lighten up. Give me back my $160... Phoenix Logistics Industries
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:35:00 - [2138] Edited by: Death Kill on 26/05/2007 22:34:31 Originally by: Marovinchian Goonfleet forums: "Guys, we are getting absolutely annihilated out here...it's time now to deploy our only means of defense....SPAM, SPAM THE FORUMS, SPAM YOUR LOCAL CHANNELS, BOB ARE CHEATERS, EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN GAME IS THEM CHEATING AND CCP HELPING THEM, WITH ALL YOU HAVE SPAM THE VERY DEPTHS OF OUTER SPACE UNTIL ALL OF EVE IS DESTROYED" seriously guys...lose with some class lol worst propaganda attempt ever
Merc998	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:35:00 - [2139] Don't troll please. Thanks, Hango snip Don't discuss moderation and don't troll -Eldo ([email protected])
Novina Agrari	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:36:00 - [2140] Originally by: Rauth Kivaro The CRC team is watching this thread and the rest of the forums closely and as ISD staff are EVE players ourselves we share your concerns regarding this matter. Which is why, even though ISD knew all about this incident, it was kept quiet and without apparent investigation until logs were offered up for public consumption and enough posts flooded the forum that the matter couldn't be locked, erased, and waited out? As far as many of us are concerned, you guys don't share the concerns of most of us. Not even a little. We don't trust Ark because he seems more and more like the guy in charge of damage control rather than the guy in charge of keeping the game's playing field level. We don't trust ISD because, well, you figure that one out. We don't trust CCP at large because of the laughable way these things have been handled for a long time - it's clear the main hope when this happens isn't that CCP gets its act in gear. It's that people get distracted by the latest dev blogs or worn out by the stonewalling and move on without CCP having to give up their favoritism or endure some transparency. Either way, stop blowing smoke about how ISD shares our concerns. Right or wrong, no one believes it anymore.
Holocene	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:36:00 - [2141] Edited by: Holocene on 26/05/2007 22:36:17 snip please do not discuss moderator actions -Conuion Meow ([email protected]) Fine, friggin Gestapo
dralid M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:37:00 - [2142] Originally by: Plim Originally by: dralid In my personal opinion, GOONS are just a bunch of whiners who look for all reasons to try to explain their failures. Comon, go annoy WoW please, and let the real boys play here! How about you actually try and deal with the information provided, instead of making some irrelevant dig at goons? You would think that there is one thing that the entire player base could agree on, that we should do something about exploitation and dev corruption. Apparantly not. Says the guy who got his Please do not bypass the profanity filter. Thanks, Hango kicked by BoB and is trying to make sure the blame is not their own failing, but rather some tinfoilhattery story about Dev misconduct and is going now alongside with the goonies Where do the wild roses grow?
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:38:00 - [2143] Originally by: Doctor West Originally by: HankMurphy goons. trying to burn ccp's reputation and game to the ground and make everyone believe its for the betterment of the community. They burned that rep themselves, don't shoot the messenger. Also I'm appalled that IA hasn't responded to this in more detail yet, if only to calm down the riot that is at hand. At my company we'd have everyone in working right now, not just a few moderators sniping posts. This is already starting to cost CCP alot more that it had to. But I guess this general mismanagement is simply symptomatic of the current corporate climate. i dont hate messengers. in fact, whistle blowers are an important check against corruption what you guys is a little past 'messenger' in fact, totally uncalled for comes to mind. so yeah, when the messenger is under orders to tear your house apart as a means of delivery.... try to destroy a companies reputation with rumors on every media they have access to on the internet (that will listen to them anyways). All before internal CCP investigation is complete. That kinda throws your 'i'm just a messenger' argument in the bin yes i WOULD shoot the messenger in that case. many times till i ran out of ammo
Elspeth Vigneron Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:39:00 - [2144] Originally by: Rebellion The goon rage for the sake of righteousness would be believable if you showed equal outrage at your leadership making real money profit from your time cards. Or at the real world angle to the gaming activities of the people you ally yourselves with. I hate to break it to you, but people have said the same thing about you. That you're actively profiteering in the isk=game-card=cash trade. And while I don't care, just don't throw stones from what, from my perspective, appears to be a glass house. Phoenix Logistics Industries
Merc998	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:41:00 - [2145] Edited by: Merc998 on 26/05/2007 22:41:11 Again, please don't discuss moderation on the forums. We have this really nifty email address and we'd love to hear from you, but please use the proper channels. Thanks, Hango snip Don't discuss moderation and don't troll -Eldo ([email protected])
Doon Khan	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:41:00 - [2146] I am a newbie player in Eve-online(14d). If I understand it correctly there is a lot of suspicion towards CCP for helping BoB in an unfair way. Many (and I) seem to feel: Should i really continue playing this game when so many seems to think the allegations towards CCP or BoB are true. Why should I invest money and time if indeed BoB has such an advantage. It doesnt seem fun to play either by myself (in safer space) or in 0.0 on either side. I would very much like to get the facts sorted out. There are statements made discrediting BoB and CCP: # Some members got banned for "revealing" cheating between BoB and CCP # CCP employees gave BoB members information about news in releases ensuring BoB got advantages in securing new items # A CCP employee logged on to a corporation without their knowledge and left, either to do his work or to spy on what was going on # CCP members hunt ISK buyers from one side and not the other (BoB) # CCP admins congratulate BoB members for distroying a titan # CCP closed forums to delete entries or try to stop information/rumours from spreading # CCP employess closing servers in battles to provide advantages to one side etc There are other statements: # Some members started rumours on forums just to discredit BoB and CCP # CCP saying that the admin logging on and off a POS was indeed just doing his normal job # CCP saying that forums are closed for the reason of being spammed creating too much info # Silence from BoB and CCP which could be interpreted as not commenting since these are only rumours anyway etc My conclusion is that most statements are not based on facts and could be interpreted in many ways. I want to know facts in order to draw conclusions if this game is stable and sound. It is obvious that CCP needs to handle rumours quickly. I think it is very much in their own interest since it definately will impact their member base, their income and ultimately their jobs (short or long term). Please sort out facts. There must be of statistics that could be analysed and published that would allow players to draw conlusions based on facts (since these facts can be verified also by players). For example: # If BoB players actually had information about new items being released causing pilots to position themselves in the right area to access items short after a release. Then this could be analysed by calculating what percentage of new items went to BoB and to other groups. # What was the distribution of server downs in battles and how did this impact either side (more BoB or other side?) # Is it normal that CCP admins congratulate players after battle regardless of side (give examples) # What specifically was done technically to fix the bug in the POS for the corporation in question. If a detailed technical specification of this is published i am sure it can be verified by lots of technically skilled players. # How many players where banned from each side as a percentage of their total number etc etc Some of these facts may of course not be possible to check from a player standpoint. But having worked in companies in crises situations I know that the basic rule is to answer all questions, rumours or not. CCP has to provide information and statements commenting on these facts and rumours. Not doing so is essentially telling one of three things: 1. CCP lack knowledge about crisis management and PR 2. CCP know that some rumours are true which means they cannot clear themselves and are laying low hoping it will pass 3. CCP does not prioritise to answer these questions thinking other work is more important I am waiting for CCP to get involved in this discussion to sort out facts. Not doing so could cause distrust for CCP. I think CCP could provide some more updates about what is planned regarding this issue. I am hoping these are rumours and misunderstandings since I think this seems to be a supergreat game!!!
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:42:00 - [2147] Edited by: eleuthereus on 26/05/2007 22:42:32 Originally by: dralid Says the guy who got his Please don't bypass the profanity filter. Thanks, Hango kicked by BoB and is trying to make sure the blame is not their own failing, but rather some tinfoilhattery story about Dev misconduct and is going now alongside with the goonies What are you? -- like 10 years old. Either contribute rational arguments to this important thread, or go away. This is not an issue of na na na na, we can beat you up, we got bigger ships, you're just mad cause you lost a system. [rolls eyes] We're talking about serious issues regarding ethics, morality, game play, and apparent distrust of ccp by lots more pilots than those in GS. Not to mention some really odd actions/behavior and relationships between devs/BOB members. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Plim Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:42:00 - [2148] Originally by: dralid Originally by: Plim Originally by: dralid In my personal opinion, GOONS are just a bunch of whiners who look for all reasons to try to explain their failures. Comon, go annoy WoW please, and let the real boys play here! How about you actually try and deal with the information provided, instead of making some irrelevant dig at goons? You would think that there is one thing that the entire player base could agree on, that we should do something about exploitation and dev corruption. Apparantly not. Says the guy who got his Please do not bypass the profanity filter. Thanks, Hango kicked by BoB and is trying to make sure the blame is not their own failing, but rather some tinfoilhattery story about Dev misconduct and is going now alongside with the goonies Huh? Not only is that incorrect (ass kicked by BoB? you high?). But in game crap is irrelevant. We are discussing corruption in a product that we pay for. Now go play with you lego bricks you ******* moron. Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:42:00 - [2149] has this silly notion to humm 'Human behaviour' by 'Bjork' Of u don't know this song i suggest u go look it up cuz it's a good song impo Anyways, 82 pages while posting this.. where are the devs or top ranking ccp staff, true or false i think it's time the ccp ceo took a stand on this, cmon dude, tell us ccp and BoB are not buddies atleast and any ccp member that is found fraternizing with BoB Wil get an instaomgwtfpwnbbq back to the unemployment office. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:43:00 - [2150] Originally by: Richard Johannson Then again, it would be nice to know why so many people got banned yesterday without warning, after they spoke out allegations? And this Helmar guy was talking about transparency and changes after the T20 incident. Bannig everyone how speak it out? Censoring? lets see proof of the bannings how about posting with your main
dralid M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:44:00 - [2151] Please guys, go cry in woW, let us aloneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ... you are sore loosers!! Where do the wild roses grow?
Doctor West	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:45:00 - [2152] Edited by: Doctor West on 26/05/2007 22:45:42 Originally by: HankMurphy i dont hate messengers. in fact, whistle blowers are an important check against corruption ... All before internal CCP investigation is complete. ... yes i WOULD shoot the messenger in that case. many times till i ran out of ammo Apparently they were stonewalled when mailing CCP. The first sensible post on the forums was deleted. I believe it's a good thing that they spammed the forum silly, so that the rest of EVE got to know - forcing CCP to act. And how's that for customer support and transparancy? Abysmal, pitiful and revolting. From my POV this has nothing about destroying CCP's reputation or the game - it looks to me like the exact opposite. I'm so sorry if your in-game affiliation prevents you from seeing this.
Vio Geraci Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:45:00 - [2153] I'd appreciate it if Arkanon could address the real scandal here. The DS1 issue isn't nearly as important as ISD's job security existing at the pleasure of BoB.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:45:00 - [2154] Originally by: dralid Please guys, go cry in woW, let us aloneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ... you are sore loosers!! Please, stop polluting this thread. At least, keep your smack in topic...
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:45:00 - [2155] Originally by: An Anarchyyt So, while the company is private, the internet is not a private venture, the server doesn't do much good without the internet backbone. And, the US government has indeed ruled the internet as a whole is a frespeech zone, given to at least the same protection as newspapers, books, and the like (See: Reno v. ACLU). I am trying to keep everything brief here, and not go indepth on anything. But basically, even though the above is true, and that you are entitled to free speech on the internet, and a private company still has to grant people certain rights, there is one thing here that makes this point moot, and this whole post worthless. You're actually wrong on your points on free speech.... Whenever free speech is mentioned in any constitutions and laws, it is to define that the GOVERNMENT can not interfere with free speech. In no way can any private entity be forced to publish your view with a free speech argument. If that was the case, I'd expect The Times to be 829562843 pages every day from people demanding they print something... So no, a company doesn't HAVE to grant their customers any rights above which is in the EULA, apart from normal statutory rights like right of return of faulty goods etc., none of which covers free speech (afaik)... Not judging whether people should or should not be allowed to post anything, just saying there's no legal requirement for a private company to allow so... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
crice Caldari CRICE Corporation Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:46:00 - [2156] Originally by: Dalaakita Vendro That's funny because everyone in DS1 including the CEO had no knowledge of any 'bugged POS' and didn't file any petitions regarding it? ya um... you got 77S- through a bug and JV1V- through a crash not allowing us to login in for hours. Sorry? What was your issue again?
Yunii Freedom Builders Inc. Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:47:00 - [2157] Originally by: dralid In my personal opinion, GOONS are just a bunch of whiners who look for all reasons to try to explain their failures. Comon, go annoy WoW please, and let the real boys play here! It's not just the goons that are saying, "Wait a minute. We all want a level and even playing field" If you can't see that, then you sir, are a Tool. Maybe if I had the devs and or an ISD member on MSN, I would have been able to get their attention to come to L-5JCJ the other night and witness for themselves a BOB Titan, piloted by Chowdown I believe,(i can check my logs if you'd really want me to) POS bowling and them stealing the ships first hand. But thats not an exploit, right? Thats just using the faultly game mechanics to your advantage, right?
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:47:00 - [2158] Edited by: Victor Vision on 26/05/2007 22:46:41 Originally by: HankMurphy ...what you guys is a little past 'messenger' in fact, totally uncalled for comes to mind... Hank, since you are posting a lot in this thread - just to clear things up a bit on where you stand: Do you endorse favoritism by devs towards certain alliances or not? Do you concider a 'direct connect' via MSN to devs, that a few seem to have, favoritism - if that connection is used for in-game matters? Just like from the BoB posters, I am not realy expecting an answer from you. But would be interesting to hear your point of view on this. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:47:00 - [2159] Originally by: crice Originally by: Dalaakita Vendro That's funny because everyone in DS1 including the CEO had no knowledge of any 'bugged POS' and didn't file any petitions regarding it? ya um... you got 77S- through a bug and JV1V- through a crash not allowing us to login in for hours. Sorry? What was your issue again? Uh, and what's the connection with the allegation from goonfleet of dev misconduct & others fishy things ?
Elspeth Vigneron Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:49:00 - [2160] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: luminoll fraternization between CCP employees and players should not be allowed and strictly enforced. This policy would have avoided this. Joined a police state recently? Like the US military which prohibits fraternization between officers and enlisted? Guards and prisoners? Psychologists and patients? Like Auditors and clients? Like many, many Fortune 500 Companies that simply prohibit this kind of fraternization to prevent these problems? Dude, get a grip. Really. Yours is one of the lamest comment on this thread with it's fascist-implication argument. Keeping employees and clients separate, and uninvolved, beyond a normal, equal professional relationship is the normal course of business in most of the first world. Phoenix Logistics Industries
Tholarim Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:50:00 - [2161] Edited by: Tholarim on 26/05/2007 22:49:29 Originally by: Plim Originally by: dralid Originally by: Plim Originally by: dralid In my personal opinion, GOONS are just a bunch of whiners who look for all reasons to try to explain their failures. Comon, go annoy WoW please, and let the real boys play here! How about you actually try and deal with the information provided, instead of making some irrelevant dig at goons? You would think that there is one thing that the entire player base could agree on, that we should do something about exploitation and dev corruption. Apparantly not. Says the guy who got his Please do not bypass the profanity filter. Thanks, Hango kicked by BoB and is trying to make sure the blame is not their own failing, but rather some tinfoilhattery story about Dev misconduct and is going now alongside with the goonies Huh? Not only is that incorrect (ass kicked by BoB? you high?). But in game crap is irrelevant. We are discussing corruption in a product that we pay for. Now go play with you lego bricks you ******* moron. On a discussion note. Does any1 actually believe orange species would tell any1 in local the minute he was contacting a gm on msn? If he even had the ability to do so? You guys really have all gone so far of the deep end you can't even see straight cus of your blind hate for an alliance that beat most of you ingame here or there.
Graisse	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:53:00 - [2162] Edited by: Graisse on 26/05/2007 22:52:25 BoB words mean very little dude, some of your boys did something for you all to gain that reputation. Oh btw I'm not a goon/alt and I also been banned yesterday for posting the link to the letter.
Nighlighted Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:53:00 - [2163] Edited by: Nighlighted on 26/05/2007 22:52:15 Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: Plim Originally by: dralid Originally by: Plim Originally by: dralid In my personal opinion, GOONS are just a bunch of whiners who look for all reasons to try to explain their failures. Comon, go annoy WoW please, and let the real boys play here! How about you actually try and deal with the information provided, instead of making some irrelevant dig at goons? You would think that there is one thing that the entire player base could agree on, that we should do something about exploitation and dev corruption. Apparantly not. Says the guy who got his Please do not bypass the profanity filter. Thanks, Hango kicked by BoB and is trying to make sure the blame is not their own failing, but rather some tinfoilhattery story about Dev misconduct and is going now alongside with the goonies Huh? Not only is that incorrect (ass kicked by BoB? you high?). But in game crap is irrelevant. We are discussing corruption in a product that we pay for. Now go play with you lego bricks you ******* moron. On a discussion not. Doies any1 actually believe orange species would tell any1 in local the minute he was contacting a gm on msn? If he even had the ability to do so? You guys really have all gone so far of the deep end you can't even see straight cus of your lind hate for an alliance that beat most of you ingame here or there. Someone is mad.. I suggest leaving the anger out of this. There is an IRC chat transcript as well as someone from outside Goonfleet who gave them the story. Now wither there is any evidence or not to back it up, that is up to others to decide. EDIT: Must remember space after t, not before it
Froting	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:53:00 - [2164] Originally by: Tholarim Edited by: Tholarim on 26/05/2007 22:49:29 Originally by: Plim Originally by: dralid Originally by: Plim Originally by: dralid In my personal opinion, GOONS are just a bunch of whiners who look for all reasons to try to explain their failures. Comon, go annoy WoW please, and let the real boys play here! How about you actually try and deal with the information provided, instead of making some irrelevant dig at goons? You would think that there is one thing that the entire player base could agree on, that we should do something about exploitation and dev corruption. Apparantly not. Says the guy who got his Please do not bypass the profanity filter. Thanks, Hango kicked by BoB and is trying to make sure the blame is not their own failing, but rather some tinfoilhattery story about Dev misconduct and is going now alongside with the goonies Huh? Not only is that incorrect (ass kicked by BoB? you high?). But in game crap is irrelevant. We are discussing corruption in a product that we pay for. Now go play with you lego bricks you ******* moron. On a discussion note. Does any1 actually believe orange species would tell any1 in local the minute he was contacting a gm on msn? If he even had the ability to do so? You guys really have all gone so far of the deep end you can't even see straight cus of your blind hate for an alliance that beat most of you ingame here or there. there is such a thing as arrogance.
Fluffy Kitten Mont Pelerin Society	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:53:00 - [2165] Originally by: Tholarim You guys really have all gone so far of the deep end you can't even see straight cus of your blind hate for an alliance that beat most of you ingame here or there. Right back at ya.
Yunii Freedom Builders Inc. Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:53:00 - [2166] Originally by: dralid Please guys, go cry in woW, let us aloneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ... you are sore loosers!! If you have to cheat to win, then you really can't compete..
Tholarim Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:54:00 - [2167] Originally by: Graisse BoB words mean very little dude, some of your boys did something for you all to gain that reputation. you mean as little as goon words who talk more crap then bob by a big margin?
NereSky Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:58:00 - [2168] Originally by: Tholarim Edited by: Tholarim on 26/05/2007 22:49:29 Originally by: Plim Originally by: dralid Originally by: Plim Originally by: dralid In my personal opinion, GOONS are just a bunch of whiners who look for all reasons to try to explain their failures. Comon, go annoy WoW please, and let the real boys play here! How about you actually try and deal with the information provided, instead of making some irrelevant dig at goons? You would think that there is one thing that the entire player base could agree on, that we should do something about exploitation and dev corruption. Apparantly not. Says the guy who got his Please do not bypass the profanity filter. Thanks, Hango kicked by BoB and is trying to make sure the blame is not their own failing, but rather some tinfoilhattery story about Dev misconduct and is going now alongside with the goonies Huh? Not only is that incorrect (ass kicked by BoB? you high?). But in game crap is irrelevant. We are discussing corruption in a product that we pay for. Now go play with you lego bricks you ******* moron. On a discussion note. Does any1 actually believe orange species would tell any1 in local the minute he was contacting a gm on msn? If he even had the ability to do so? You guys really have all gone so far of the deep end you can't even see straight cus of your blind hate for an alliance that beat most of you ingame here or there. say that enough times u may convince more people than yourself day is night and night is day lmfao. Cheating in games is bad for you - take a pill
Merc998	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:59:00 - [2169] Originally by: hango Hey guys, as per the forum rules please don't discuss moderator actions on the forums. If you do discuss them here we have to snip your post. Of course you can ask us why we sniped your post or any other forum-related question, but please use the proper communications channels for that - fire off an email to [email protected]. Posting about it here or editing your posts after a mod has edited it won't do anyone any good, all it does is clutter up the forums briefly. I'm sure that a lot of you who posted are waiting for answers or comments on their posts, and you're not making it easier by being purposefully disruptive. So please, do yourselves, your fellow posters and the forum mod team a favor and abide by the rules. For the guys asking for our MSN addresses, let me tell you that while we're really flattered we'd prefer it if you used email. Thank you. You have E-mail please try to answer it sometime within the next 40 seconds, as that seems to be the new response time to requests for help by BoB and if they can have that sort of response I am sure its only fair that the rerst of us do too snip Don't discuss moderation and don't troll -Eldo ([email protected])
Van'Klomp Minmatar FireStar Inc FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:59:00 - [2170] Edited by: Van''Klomp on 26/05/2007 22:58:19 CCP should conduct their investigations behind closed doors and not allow any further posting, debate or FLAMING (yes, that's what you're all doing, your flaming... It's a GAME!) until their investigations have reached conclusion. Once CCP release their findings then civilised discussion should take place, about the FACTS. Quote: It's a GAME! Keep that in mind. :) Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Hango ([email protected])
Illiya Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:00:00 - [2171] When people bring up "well he may have bumped a dread!" as an excuse it's important to point out that while this time, you may claim to have a valid reason for contact, the logs showed that it was no big deal to go ahead and ring up a dev. Diana himself admitted that it's no big deal to them. It's not difficult to infer from this that contacting a dev via MSN is not unusual for, at the very least, certain high ranking members of BoB. I would be concerned with this even if I weren't a member of Goonswarm. I'd be interested to know if other leaders of fairly large alliances have direct and instant access to members of the Dev team. It would be interesting to note how many of that number are or have in the past been aligned with BoB. Would it prove anything, no, but the results would probably be of some interest to the community at large. Sig removed - Filesize too large exceeding 24000 maximum bytes - Uly
Tholarim Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:00:00 - [2172] Originally by: NereSky Originally by: Tholarim Edited by: Tholarim on 26/05/2007 22:49:29 Originally by: Plim Originally by: dralid Originally by: Plim Originally by: dralid In my personal opinion, GOONS are just a bunch of whiners who look for all reasons to try to explain their failures. Comon, go annoy WoW please, and let the real boys play here! How about you actually try and deal with the information provided, instead of making some irrelevant dig at goons? You would think that there is one thing that the entire player base could agree on, that we should do something about exploitation and dev corruption. Apparantly not. Says the guy who got his Please do not bypass the profanity filter. Thanks, Hango kicked by BoB and is trying to make sure the blame is not their own failing, but rather some tinfoilhattery story about Dev misconduct and is going now alongside with the goonies Huh? Not only is that incorrect (ass kicked by BoB? you high?). But in game crap is irrelevant. We are discussing corruption in a product that we pay for. Now go play with you lego bricks you ******* moron. On a discussion note. Does any1 actually believe orange species would tell any1 in local the minute he was contacting a gm on msn? If he even had the ability to do so? You guys really have all gone so far of the deep end you can't even see straight cus of your blind hate for an alliance that beat most of you ingame here or there. say that enough times u may convince more people than yourself day is night and night is day lmfao. Cheating in games is bad for you - take a pill I find it hilarious everyone looks right past the obvious and into the ridiculous.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:00:00 - [2173] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Nighlighted Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Vio Geraci I'd appreciate it if Arkanon could address the real scandal here. The DS1 issue isn't nearly as important as ISD's job security existing at the pleasure of BoB. Its pretty simple see. As a reporter you HAVE to leave if someone asks you to. Its part of the agreement and paperwork you have to read when you take the job (the letter says the guys didnt read it, or didnt return it or something). If you disrupt players you get a warning, do it again you get fired. If you talk smack to someone in local about it, you get banned real quick. The reporters are not to be disrespectful to the players ever. It doesnt really matter how BoB contacted the staff, either by petitions, MSN, phone, email, whatever means they have to get a disruptive ISD member out of the way. MSN is faster then petitions, just like spamming gaming forums to the point people take them down is faster then emailing people to get your point across right? So I should by your logic be able to contact a GM out of game through MSN and get someone spamming me to buy isk to stop. #eve-chaos on irc.coldfront.net you can catch dev's and GM's in there most of the time, now you too can contact them whenever you want. Wasnt that simple? That isnt very private now is it.. Cant really ask devs and gms to cheat for me in a public chat channel, now can I? :P
cheephough	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:00:00 - [2174] Hrm, weird. I would like to know what the different technological areas there are at CCP. Most organizations are setup as follows: Server administrators Network administrators Database administrators Application development So, when you say developers, do you mean database admins, application developers, server admin... Most companies dont allow app dev into the prod databases, so I could see why a developer would be doing something in game to check something out. Why the corp wasn't notified, I dunno. Couldn't the developer just have given himself the items needed to test things out and done it himself, without using a player's corp? Again, in most companies, they have an account in the production environment that allows them to test things in production without affecting their true production data. Is CCP a publicly traded company? SOX compliant? Quick! Call Ernst & Young to do a full corporate audit!!!
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:01:00 - [2175] Originally by: Marovinchian Goonfleet forums: "Guys, we are getting absolutely annihilated out here...it's time now to deploy our only means of defense....SPAM, SPAM THE FORUMS, SPAM YOUR LOCAL CHANNELS, BOB ARE CHEATERS, EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN GAME IS THEM CHEATING AND CCP HELPING THEM, WITH ALL YOU HAVE SPAM THE VERY DEPTHS OF OUTER SPACE UNTIL ALL OF EVE IS DESTROYED" seriously guys...lose with some class goons have class ?? you cant be for real
Fluffy Kitten Mont Pelerin Society	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:02:00 - [2176] Originally by: Tholarim but why announce it in local? So ppl could go ape** about it like now and find out? makes sense to you? seems a little ****** to me, but hey, the goons say it is so! Dude, Orange Species really doesn't come off as being the sharpest knife in the drawer, and Dianabolic has already confirmed the MSN; so yeah, it seems very plausible. There's no need for personal attacks. -Hango
Aryth Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:03:00 - [2177] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Nighlighted Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Vio Geraci I'd appreciate it if Arkanon could address the real scandal here. The DS1 issue isn't nearly as important as ISD's job security existing at the pleasure of BoB. Its pretty simple see. As a reporter you HAVE to leave if someone asks you to. Its part of the agreement and paperwork you have to read when you take the job (the letter says the guys didnt read it, or didnt return it or something). If you disrupt players you get a warning, do it again you get fired. If you talk smack to someone in local about it, you get banned real quick. The reporters are not to be disrespectful to the players ever. It doesnt really matter how BoB contacted the staff, either by petitions, MSN, phone, email, whatever means they have to get a disruptive ISD member out of the way. MSN is faster then petitions, just like spamming gaming forums to the point people take them down is faster then emailing people to get your point across right? So I should by your logic be able to contact a GM out of game through MSN and get someone spamming me to buy isk to stop. #eve-chaos on irc.coldfront.net you can catch dev's and GM's in there most of the time, now you too can contact them whenever you want. Wasnt that simple? Obviously not since it took 83 pages for someone to say that.
Cerui Tarshiel Minmatar Fabulous Soulcatchers Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:07:00 - [2178] Now, there seems to be less mob mentality going on than the last time (granted I did not read the entire thread) but as always there are people speaking out of their rear end on both sides with misinformation and such going on. But there are a few question I have. 1) If Graelyn doesn't care about the NDA and he specificly states that he sent Mr K the document that contained the rigged storyline arc then why hasn't that been disclosed? 2) I would really like to see Graelyn reactivate his account (and I'm sure that plenty of people would be willing to send him a timecode or two) to confirm that he indeed composed that letter and sent it. 3) Why not even try (futile as it might've turned out) to contact IA and if that didn't work then send it to mr K On the flipside however I would really like to hear exactly the procedures ISD-Aurora has for situations like these (even if it didn't happen then it's certain to happen in one form or another) and generally the procedures for every day operations. Also, less important though, the reason Sharkbait entered the corp (not calling for blood mind you, just a simple explanation). I am eagerly awaiting the answear to all this (and for the people screaming why there isn't an answear yet I would like to remind you this all came to the light not even one and half day ago)
Arconite	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:08:00 - [2179] Originally by: Grytok Can we please get rid of it, by just not allowing employees of CCP to have active accounts in any Corp or Alliance other than CCPs own like ISD, Polaris, etc.? Amen to that comment. Seems that's the only answer to me!
Kalestra Cable Faust Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:08:00 - [2180] Originally by: Tholarim I find it hilarious everyone looks right past the obvious and into the ridiculous. Truth be told you should always look beyond the obvious otherwise you miss all the good stuff in life.
Svaha Norbu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:08:00 - [2181] Originally by: Tholarim On a discussion note. Does any1 actually believe orange species would tell any1 in local the minute he was contacting a gm on msn? If he even had the ability to do so? You guys really have all gone so far of the deep end you can't even see straight cus of your blind hate for an alliance that beat most of you ingame here or there. Yes it's complete and utter wild speculation. Oh wait... Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. We also have logs of the event in question. So do a number of members of your alliance, I would imagine. Who is talking crap again?
Tholarim Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:10:00 - [2182] Edited by: Tholarim on 26/05/2007 23:09:24 Originally by: Svaha Norbu Originally by: Tholarim On a discussion note. Does any1 actually believe orange species would tell any1 in local the minute he was contacting a gm on msn? If he even had the ability to do so? You guys really have all gone so far of the deep end you can't even see straight cus of your blind hate for an alliance that beat most of you ingame here or there. Yes it's complete and utter wild speculation. Oh wait... Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. We also have logs of the event in question. So do a number of members of your alliance, I would imagine. Who is talking crap again? i hear alot about logs. let's see them then.Must be some damn convincing proof.
FaggotyRoleplayingName	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:12:00 - [2183] Edited by:**gotyRoleplayingName on 26/05/2007 23:10:49 Originally by: HankMurphy you can try to sell stupid. but you should know.. not everyone is gonna buy Of course not. Some individuals have their own private stockpiles.
Arl GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:12:00 - [2184] Originally by: Tholarim i hear alot about logs. let's see them then.Must be some damn convincing proof. On msn?
Loalita	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:13:00 - [2185] I say that CCP did a mistake by acting unfairly, because BOB is going to control the 0.0 and then many coalition players will simply stop playing the game because they won't be able to play with their friends and people who speak the same language has them in the 0.0 space. So they are going to loose money if they don't act. But what I say is this thread is done to control the crowd, so don't think it's a good thing to post here. Only old players will read so they don't loose money from new players. It's also used to expel your frustration.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:14:00 - [2186] Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Tholarim On a discussion note. Does any1 actually believe orange species would tell any1 in local the minute he was contacting a gm on msn? If he even had the ability to do so? You guys really have all gone so far of the deep end you can't even see straight cus of your blind hate for an alliance that beat most of you ingame here or there. Well, if you have a direct connection to the devs via MSN, it would be tempting to use it from time to time for in-game matters, would it not? but why announce it in local? So ppl could go ape** about it like now and find out? makes sense to you? seems a little ****** to me, but hey, the goons say it is so! I take it you agree that the MSN connection would be tempting to use for in-game matters, since you did not say it would not be. On your question: I do not know if OS announced this in local or not. But I do know what Diana posted in this thread. I honestly thought he was out of his mind to openly post this here. Maybe OS had a similar momentary lapse of reason? In the end I hope you agree that favoritism is not a good thing, and the neccessary steps should be taken to prevent this from happening. Actually most of the EVE playerbase as well as most of CCP will probably agree on this. I think most of us in this thread have the common grounds that we love EVE. Lets work together to end any unfair advantages that may or may not be given to anyone. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Tholarim Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:21:00 - [2187] Originally by: Vozzek Originally by: Tholarim i hear alot about logs. let's see them then.Must be some damn convincing proof. We posted them? Not my problem if you can't be bothered to read them. so the 5 lines of local chat are your proof? don't make me laugh harder.
Arl GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:22:00 - [2188] Originally by: Tholarim sure, i'll msn a dev now to offline your pos k? SO if a pos in goon space goes offline tonight, you'll have more proof. you lot make me chuckle Are you sure you are high enough in BoB to be able to do that? I'm calling your bluff.
Holocene	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:22:00 - [2189] Originally by: Miang Hawwa Many persons that answered to this topic are quite troublesome. There's nothing else to discuss here for what I care. CCP is investigating the issue and the problem is solved. I don't know what you're looking for here besides complainning. We already know what happened, we already know how it's been solved, we already know the responsible is being punished, yet you keep blabbing misserably. Go back play EVE so you can spend your time better than this. It's not solved, we, the playerbase, haven't seen someone responsible for this mess lynched yet.
Svaha Norbu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:23:00 - [2190] Originally by: Tholarim yeh favouritism in a game ppl pay for is bad. But with ccp's hands on approach regarding to game development they put themselves at risk as is shown here. The problem is that ppl like the goons are blatantly exploiting that risk for some perverted sense of justice. While in reality there is no proof anything out of the ordinary happend. Evidence was presented. The fact that you continue to ignore it does not mean it doesn't exist.
Vio Geraci Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:24:00 - [2191] Originally by: Tholarim but why announce it in local? So ppl could go ape** about it like now and find out? makes sense to you? seems a little ****** to me, but hey, the goons say it is so! He was "kidding on the square".
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:26:00 - [2192] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 26/05/2007 23:25:39 Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 26/05/2007 23:24:57 Originally by: Tholarim yeh favouritism in a game ppl pay for is bad. But with ccp's hands on approach regarding to game development they put themselves at risk as is shown here. The problem is that ppl like the goons are blatantly exploiting that risk for some perverted sense of justice. While in reality there is no proof anything out of the ordinary happend. Actually for most of us in the game being able to contact developers via MSN to sort out any problems we have in the game is pretty out of the ordinary. Originally by: Tholarim so the 5 lines of local chat are your proof? don't make me laugh harder. The proof would be that very shortly after those 5 lines in local a developer completely unrelated to the incident appeared in the ISD channel to chastise the ISD member accused of bumping BoB dreads.
Nighlighted Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:26:00 - [2193] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Nighlighted Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Vio Geraci I'd appreciate it if Arkanon could address the real scandal here. The DS1 issue isn't nearly as important as ISD's job security existing at the pleasure of BoB. Its pretty simple see. As a reporter you HAVE to leave if someone asks you to. Its part of the agreement and paperwork you have to read when you take the job (the letter says the guys didnt read it, or didnt return it or something). If you disrupt players you get a warning, do it again you get fired. If you talk smack to someone in local about it, you get banned real quick. The reporters are not to be disrespectful to the players ever. It doesnt really matter how BoB contacted the staff, either by petitions, MSN, phone, email, whatever means they have to get a disruptive ISD member out of the way. MSN is faster then petitions, just like spamming gaming forums to the point people take them down is faster then emailing people to get your point across right? So I should by your logic be able to contact a GM out of game through MSN and get someone spamming me to buy isk to stop. #eve-chaos on irc.coldfront.net you can catch dev's and GM's in there most of the time, now you too can contact them whenever you want. Wasnt that simple? Well other then from the report it was on MSN... So your saying all the Goons had to do was give this complaint to the GMs in the chat room and all of this could of been avoided? I'll remember that the next time I receive a tell advertising isk for money. All other things aside, I don't think the Devs want us to petition them outside of the game, beg for stuff from them, and flame them in the IRC chat room. For official business players should use the petition system, thats why its there in the first place. Anything else, leads us to this situation here where it's possible to have people in major trouble, and only one side of the story that has any evidence. Hence why IA is looking into these complaints.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:28:00 - [2194] Raven 415: lets see proof of the bannings how about posting with your main... lol, you are the man raven415! I have no alt, and my main was deleted as a guy ask: why are the forums down? I answered: because an open letter from the goonfleet to CCP, thats all. 10 Sec later my account was deleted. Without warning, without explaination. I am on a trial, downloaded today. So how can i post with a banned char? lol, fool
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:30:00 - [2195] Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Tholarim On a discussion note. Does any1 actually believe orange species would tell any1 in local the minute he was contacting a gm on msn? If he even had the ability to do so? You guys really have all gone so far of the deep end you can't even see straight cus of your blind hate for an alliance that beat most of you ingame here or there. Well, if you have a direct connection to the devs via MSN, it would be tempting to use it from time to time for in-game matters, would it not? but why announce it in local? So ppl could go ape** about it like now and find out? makes sense to you? seems a little ****** to me, but hey, the goons say it is so! I take it you agree that the MSN connection would be tempting to use for in-game matters, since you did not say it would not be. On your question: I do not know if OS announced this in local or not. But I do know what Diana posted in this thread. I honestly thought he was out of his mind to openly post this here. Maybe OS had a similar momentary lapse of reason? In the end I hope you agree that favoritism is not a good thing, and the neccessary steps should be taken to prevent this from happening. Actually most of the EVE playerbase as well as most of CCP will probably agree on this. I think most of us in this thread have the common grounds that we love EVE. Lets work together to end any unfair advantages that may or may not be given to anyone. yeh favouritism in a game ppl pay for is bad. But with ccp's hands on approach regarding to game development they put themselves at risk as is shown here. The problem is that ppl like the goons are blatantly exploiting that risk for some perverted sense of justice. While in reality there is no proof anything out of the ordinary happend. There is proof enough for an investigation. The goons want an even playing field. Why does BoB hate that? Why must so many of BoB + company attack GS for making this issue public where it can get the attention it deserves. IF you had your way, this would never have seen the light of day and it would be cheating as normal. This is justice, and not just for Goonswarm, but everyone. I'm sorry if this is against your sense of entitlement. This thread and allegations do nothing for GS in-game, but keep the devs honest about their involvement.
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:30:00 - [2196] Originally by: Miang Hawwa Many persons that answered to this topic are quite troublesome. There's nothing else to discuss here for what I care. CCP is investigating the issue and the problem is solved. I don't know what you're looking for here besides complainning. We already know what happened, we already know how it's been solved, we already know the responsible is being punished, yet you keep blabbing misserably. Go back play EVE so you can spend your time better than this. If you're so bothered by it, why don't you go back to play EVE and stop bothering us with your head-in-the-sand attitude? It'd save us the trouble of having to decipher your posts ... --
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:33:00 - [2197] Someone just told me that their alt was banned for accidentally linking this new barrel of fun in a public channel... Is this true? Does CCP really intend to just wave the banstick to keep people in line? Once upon a time i would have had a hard time believing this, but now... well, which one of you do we call ****. Please confirm or deny whether free speech is now a legitimately bannable offense. Originally by:** Dr Cupid Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!
Elspeth Vigneron Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:34:00 - [2198] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Dalaakita Vendro Oh, and CCP, I hope you're not counting on keeping your income once Age of Conan / PotbS come out because son the only goddamn reason a lot of people are playing EVE is because of the cutthroat PvP, and once there's a competitor for that with a, you know, level playing field (and that isn't ten years old I'm looking at you UO), you nordic motherfuckers is screwed. Why so much anger? CCP doesn't force you to play EVE. Give me back my money. I wouldn't have started playing if I knew CCP was cheating. Now I feel ripped off, having paid for two accounts for 6 months only to find out that I was never going to be allowed to have a chance. Not that I didn't have a chance. But that I was never going to be allowed to have a chance. Phoenix Logistics Industries
Jareth Siann	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:34:00 - [2199] Sadly with all of this now coming to light, I distinctly remember an aurora event where MC was paid to stop an inferior force from hijacking a Charon loaded with Zyd , amusingly, MC had all three routes camped heavily. Since MC is a bob alt corp.. kinda makes you wonder. Just how much did MC get paid by aurora for that operation? Maybe that nice charon freighter full of zyd? ... naaahhhh never happen. Right? BUt this really does need to be addressed, and having a hotline to ccp via out of game mechanics is kind of disturbing if found true. oh well.. so much for rp.. now back to the pew pew.
bloody johnroberts Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:36:00 - [2200] if these alligations are true then it is a sad day for eve. part of me hopes its all a misunderstanding. i dont care what bob or goon have to say in the matter i want the truth for the player base to be able to trust the devs again. if these issues with msn contact is untrue why have we not had a statement from orange species telling us his story of the facts
Tholarim Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:39:00 - [2201] Originally by: bloody johnroberts if these alligations are true then it is a sad day for eve. part of me hopes its all a misunderstanding. i dont care what bob or goon have to say in the matter i want the truth for the player base to be able to trust the devs again. if these issues with msn contact is untrue why have we not had a statement from orange species telling us his story of the facts You honestly think any1 here would believe anything he said if it wasn't exactly what the goons wanted to hear? nah we'll get our fun out of taking goon stations ingame.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:43:00 - [2202] Originally by: Tholarim You honestly think any1 here would believe anything he said if it wasn't exactly what the goons wanted to hear? nah we'll get our fun out of taking goon stations ingame. Could you please take the CAOD-level smacking to CAOD?
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:44:00 - [2203] Originally by: Miang Hawwa Many persons that answered to this topic are quite troublesome. There's nothing else to discuss here for what I care. CCP is investigating the issue and the problem is solved. I don't know what you're looking for here besides complainning. We already know what happened, we already know how it's been solved, we already know the responsible is being punished, yet you keep blabbing misserably. Go back play EVE so you can spend your time better than this. Move along, nothing to see here? "Many persons that answered to this topic are quite troublesome." Ofcourse they are, thats why the BoBsters are out doing "Proof or STFU", "Leave and let us play the game like we want" and "So what if we got personal contact with devs and gm's, you can all chat with them in the public channels" kinds of stuffs. Until there is a belivable report from CCP about whay has and hasnt happened this thread is very much alive. ^-^
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:45:00 - [2204] Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: bloody johnroberts if these alligations are true then it is a sad day for eve. part of me hopes its all a misunderstanding. i dont care what bob or goon have to say in the matter i want the truth for the player base to be able to trust the devs again. if these issues with msn contact is untrue why have we not had a statement from orange species telling us his story of the facts You honestly think any1 here would believe anything he said if it wasn't exactly what the goons wanted to hear? nah we'll get our fun out of taking goon stations ingame. Thats it... like every other bob member... "If you hate us so much take us on IN the game" Bit of a rich message when, again and again, the deck is shown to be stacked against us. No need for msn, just link this post in alliance chat and get me moderated.
MegaNewb	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:48:00 - [2205] Edited by: MegaNewb on 26/05/2007 23:47:03 http://images.redial.net/goons_forum.JPG
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:48:00 - [2206] Edited by: Stahlregen on 26/05/2007 23:51:46 Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: Vozzek Originally by: Tholarim i hear alot about logs. let's see them then.Must be some damn convincing proof. We posted them? Not my problem if you can't be bothered to read them. so the 5 lines of local chat are your proof? don't make me laugh harder. You are squabbling with alts and trolls while sitting back, laughing and going on about how much of a good time you are having all the while fruitlessly hand waving, ad hominem attacking freaking everything and trying to drown everyone's logic with stupid. Hey dude, Now i know this thread might be a bit confusing, seeing as how for some incomprehensible reason the majority of posters in it aren't pandering to your counter-propaganda, because newsflash, it's illogical and everyone has already agreed that your team sucks at debating. You were trolled like eighty pages back right in the OP, You fell for it and responded. The beauty of the troll is compounded by the fact that here you are, 80 pages later still squabbling with alts and trolls, laughing at them laughing at you, laughing at them, laughing at you, laughing at them. You are not enjoying yourself, It's painfully obvious by the way you are stabbing wildly at every lurking shadow of disent against the matrimony between CCP and certain alliances all the while keeping you distracted and ultimately unable of forming even a somewhat counter argument beyond "SOUR GRAPES LOL ******* LOL GOONS ARE NOOOBS SEE YOU IN SPACE HAAAAAAAAAAH!" You've been had chief.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.26 23:58:00 - [2207] Edited by: Victor Vision on 26/05/2007 23:59:49 Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Tholarim On a discussion note. Does any1 actually believe orange species would tell any1 in local the minute he was contacting a gm on msn? If he even had the ability to do so? You guys really have all gone so far of the deep end you can't even see straight cus of your blind hate for an alliance that beat most of you ingame here or there. Well, if you have a direct connection to the devs via MSN, it would be tempting to use it from time to time for in-game matters, would it not? but why announce it in local? So ppl could go ape** about it like now and find out? makes sense to you? seems a little ****** to me, but hey, the goons say it is so! I take it you agree that the MSN connection would be tempting to use for in-game matters, since you did not say it would not be. On your question: I do not know if OS announced this in local or not. But I do know what Diana posted in this thread. I honestly thought he was out of his mind to openly post this here. Maybe OS had a similar momentary lapse of reason? In the end I hope you agree that favoritism is not a good thing, and the neccessary steps should be taken to prevent this from happening. Actually most of the EVE playerbase as well as most of CCP will probably agree on this. I think most of us in this thread have the common grounds that we love EVE. Lets work together to end any unfair advantages that may or may not be given to anyone. yeh favouritism in a game ppl pay for is bad. But with ccp's hands on approach regarding to game development they put themselves at risk as is shown here. The problem is that ppl like the goons are blatantly exploiting that risk for some perverted sense of justice. While in reality there is no proof anything out of the ordinary happend. You might be surprised to hear that I agree that some have been pushing a bit too far with what they posted in this thread. This concerns many posts from all sides unfortunatly. Still I think an investigation makes sense, as well as an open discussion, within the boundaries of good manners and decency of course. The main problem I currently see is how CCP can restore trust lost. You know, I have been playing EVE for close to 4 years now. I understand friendships between players and devs developed. Especially looking at the almost private atmosphere EVE had in the beginning, it seemed natural and right for this to happen in the early stages of EVE. It also seemed right the devs were joining in the fun on TQ. Verone said earlier in this thread he misses the atmosphere of EVE in those days. I honestly do as well. But EVE has changed. Many more people are playing EVE today. To them, the friendships of some in EVE to the devs seem like a possibility for an unfair advantage, same goes for devs playing on TQ. I think the post by Malloc Memrel sums up the concerns fairly well, and also points to possible solutions. I personally am still hesitant to say devs should not play on TQ though. They made this wonderfull game and should enjoy it. This is what my heart says. But my logic tells me that devs playing on TQ obviously can cause problems, and unfortunatly has done so (t20). On the issue of the MSN, I have a very clear opinion. MSN for out of game matters is ok. But MSN for in-game matters is just plain wrong. The problem we now face is HOW can be ensured that a) devs dont cheat b) MSN is only used for out of game matters c) favoritism to any one side, or any players is prevented d) trust is restored That is the challenge. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Casper Ozymandias	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:00:00 - [2208] Edited by: Casper Ozymandias on 27/05/2007 00:00:22 Originally by: MegaNewb Edited by: MegaNewb on 26/05/2007 23:47:03 http://images.redial.net/goons_forum.JPG Yeah.. We know man. It's a threadnought. HURF BLURF WHAT'S A THREADNOUGHT GUYZ?
Farham AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:00:00 - [2209] Quote: #eve-chaos on irc.coldfront.net you can catch dev's and GM's in there most of the time, now you too can contact them whenever you want. Knowing where to find them is irrelevant. There should not be publicly accessible chat channels for players to interact with CCP employees...period. We have forums. If something needs discussing keep it transparent. Let everyone be able to access the information given and comment if necessary. If the CCP folks want to have a private CCP only chat to shoot the breeze or what not fine...but there should not be a place to "ring up a dev". Human nature shines through loud and clear with EVE as to why Devs should not be on any basis with players other than professional. T20 should have ended all discussion on the matter. CCP has some serious professional conduct problems that regardless of what did or did not take place in this example need addressing and need it now. Intrepid Crossing Diplomat and All Around Major Idiot
Bi Tor	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:00:00 - [2210] So I have a question. Are all of the ISK and all of the advantages gained by the admitted elicited contacts going to be removed from the game? Does this mean that the greater portion of BoB's ISK and Much of its assets need to be destroyed in place? That this also applies to MC because BoB fed them so many credits over the duration of their current contract. What about all of the credits given out to BoBÆs pet corporations. The Illegal contacts are/were a violation of the EULA and have damaged the game play of many people not just the poor suckers that got steam rolled like ASCN and the others getting it now. What is to be done for the victims inside BoB and friendÆs that have no clue that they are being cheated of a true victory? I think the real question is how does CCP respond to the fact that it has been publicly started that at least 2 high ranking members of BoB have direct out of game contact with the Development Team. In either case CCP is going to take damage; 1.If it fires the Developer for inappropriate behavior, they potentially delay one or more projects that the individual was working on. Also there is a potential for more scandal like this as more info become public. 2.If they destroy the illegally acquired credits and those items developed from them and any credits or assets disbursed, just as if this was any other violation of the EULA, then they will anger their friends/Co-workers in BoB and potentially lose consumers. 3.They can do nothing and **** off the little guys like us. A few of us may even quit over an issue like this one. In any case CCP will do the thing that does the least amount of short term damage, they are a corporation after all. However, I will say this, I am very saddened by these events. It makes me wonder if it is even possible to compete in this game. Sadly I have friends on all sides, East, West and North, and this shows that it was never possible for many of them to have a fair fight. Well the fights were never fair at the Alliance level. Good luck guy if you are fighting BoB and Friends I guess the cheat worst than the NPCÆs do. Bite Me! Bi`Tor
Aramark Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:00:00 - [2211] how long can this go on? --------------------------------------------------- "Roses are red, Violets are blue, I'm a developer, are you one too?"
Nazdarovie Minmatar Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:01:00 - [2212] Edited by: Nazdarovie on 27/05/2007 00:00:37 So can we all have Devs msn addys? Or is it limited to Band Of Developers only? Don't use your signature to troll. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:02:00 - [2213] MegaNewsb, what would you do if the first,polite,constructive post is deleted within seconds, don't care and go to bed ?
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:03:00 - [2214] Originally by: MegaNewb Edited by: MegaNewb on 26/05/2007 23:47:03 http://images.redial.net/goons_forum.JPG Yeah, we know. It's called trolling. Mostly done by BoD-alts. --
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:04:00 - [2215] Originally by: Nazdarovie Edited by: Nazdarovie on 27/05/2007 00:00:37 So can we all have Devs msn addys? Or is it limited to Band Of Developers only? You need to have been playing for atleast 3 years and have OMG Firends trained to lvl 3 for GM msn and lvl 5 for Dev MSN.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:06:00 - [2216] Originally by: Victor Vision Edited by: Victor Vision on 26/05/2007 22:46:41 Originally by: HankMurphy ...what you guys is a little past 'messenger' in fact, totally uncalled for comes to mind... Hank, since you are posting a lot in this thread - just to clear things up a bit on where you stand: Do you endorse favoritism by devs towards certain alliances or not? Do you concider a 'direct connect' via MSN to devs, that a few seem to have, favoritism - if that connection is used for in-game matters? Just like from the BoB posters, I am not realy expecting an answer from you. But would be interesting to hear your point of view on this. i got stuck at work this holiday... so i'm hittin the forums absolutely not. i don't endorse favoritism in any way. ppl may think i'm a bob lackey, but i used to fight against bob! wasn't until i (and my corp) fell in love with our hatred towards RA that we picked this side of the war. do i consider the MSN stuff a bit iffy? I'd be quick to say yes actually. But, in a game of this size, after so many years, many contacts are made. You cant demonize someone because of who they know, only their actions. How do you then draw the line to inappropriate here? Anything relating to in-game matters? Nah. I kinda like the idea someone has a dev's ear when things in game are not going as they should. "yo, your node crashed" , "hey, you got a volunteer isd guy harassing a capital fleet and refusing to leave". These things i would consider appropriate. ... naturally its inappropriate if they are receiving some type of in-game advantage. In this incident, did bob somehow receive some unfair advantage via this contact? No. There was a dumb isd reporter that was refusing to leave an active combat fleet as they are supposed to. He needed to be canned and he was. They could have easily used many other channels/mediums to relay this. The MSN was probably the quickest and easiest. Doesn't make it proper, but it doesn't make it criminal. I agree bob and anyone else should have to go through the same channels as the rest of this community for something like this! 110%. But again, in this case, nothing was used for any type of in-game advantage, so i dont buy the 'bob devHAXsploit!' crap. Bob could have done things differently. I'm sure after this they (and MANY others) will be forced to from here on. ------------------ Goons also could have done things VERY differently as well! I think their demonizing of CCP and spamming of every forum on the internet is only hurting this community and this game. As they so obviously intend. This (and the POS incident) is hardly worthy of the witch hunt and slander goons are trying to fuel right now. Justifying borderline criminal actions they deployed against the website when they get in a tizzy? *Remember, they were ordered by their leadership to come in here and spam spam spam till the site crashed. Shameful. I cant imagine being associated with ppl like this. Two wrongs hardly make a right despite whatever rhetoric they can come up with. We never saw anything of this caliber before goons came to eve. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see the ill effects this crap has on our entire community. It really does suck for everyone when ppl are running around the internet screaming CCP is totally corrupt and rigging their game. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they are straight bitter about losing this war. They goin down and they want to take as much with them as possible while providing a self fueled forum riot to help them save face. Blurring what happened here with the last black eye CCP got from dev misconduct and any other accusations they can drum up. "Bob cheats! They have MSN! We woulda won the war if they didn't get that ISD guy fired. We woulda won the war if that dev didn't fix that pos!" If you aren't familiar with the goons, now you know what they are all about
G Barker	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:07:00 - [2217] I find this to be a sad posting. I read repeatedly where BoB members are trying to goad people into posting with primary characters instead of alts, like posting with an alt means that you lack courage. The fact is, there have been mass bannings by CCP in order to try and cover this up. Therefore, people are forced to post with alts in order to prevent bannings. Are they being banned for saying excessive swearing? No! Are they being banned for posting dirty pictures? No! Why are they being banned? For stepping forward and pointing out CCP's unethical behaviour. That's why they're getting banned. I was pretty angry after the T20 scandal. I was stunned that he wasn't fired. I'm still stunned that he wasn't fired. CCP created a new IA division. Oh, boy. Great fix CCP. CCP staff can not play this game with other players and expect to maintain a level playing field. CCP employees can not make friends with an alliance in this game and remain unbiased. No one could. It's just not within the capabilities of human nature. That's why game developers in any other MMO on the net, developers do not play with paying customers! It's an unethical action. You can't do that! I'm cancelling both of my accounts. And the only way that I will ever come back to EVE, is if CCP sells it to a company that can run it without interfering. CCP is obiously not capable of running an MMO, and they will never, ever, get my business again. Oh, and one more thing. I've never been in contact with any member of GS, BoB, or the developers. I'm completely outside the situation in aspects except that I am an EVE player. For all of you who are criticizing GS for spamming the forum, consider this. If CCP hadn't started the mass bannings and message board deletions to try and shut them up, they wouldn't have had to use such a drastic measure. GS was doing what they had to do to bring truth to the playerbase. CCP was trying to use brute force to shut them up. CCP, I hope you're business is in bankruptcy by the end of the month. To anyone who doesn't quit after this, you deserve what you get.
Jeval Met'markand	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:09:00 - [2218] People are forgetting that Raekhan was already in violation of CCP's (or any other corporation's) employment policy by not submitting his paperwork in full. That is reason enough to fire someone on it's own. He also posted in a public channel during a battle, after admitting he was within a foot of another ship, 70km is nothing, we all know that. I haven't been here very long, so maybe I'm a step back from you all who have been playing for months or years, but IMHO, anyone writing from the perspective of a fired employee is not necessarily to be trusted completely, whether they were wronged or not. The bottom line is, CCP exists to make money. When it's players are upset, they stop playing and paying for memberships, and the company makes less money. Not only is there no better way to get back at CCP than raising exactly this kind of ruckus, but CCP has all the motivation in the world to correct the problem and deal with it accordingly. When publicity is the only thing that can interrupt the flow of new players into the game, and cause older players to quit, it makes perfect sense that part of damage control is limiting what is posted/published on the subject. Simply because a petition was not responded to, or a post was deleted, or an email ignored does not mean they are trying to hide or ignore the problem, it means they don't want to start any more rumors than there already are. Silence is an open invitation to talk and vent, but a single poorly-worded sentence can do far more harm, even when the intent is to placate. You cannot hold corporations to the same moral expectations as individuals. They are not individuals. So be patient.
Jareth Siann	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:12:00 - [2219] Originally by: Shadow Elk Originally by: Nazdarovie Edited by: Nazdarovie on 27/05/2007 00:00:37 So can we all have Devs msn addys? Or is it limited to Band Of Developers only? You need to have been playing for atleast 3 years and have OMG Firends trained to lvl 3 for GM msn and lvl 5 for Dev MSN. OMG now see that is funny
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:13:00 - [2220] Originally by: Jeval Met'markand People are forgetting that Raekhan was already in violation of CCP's (or any other corporation's) employment policy by not submitting his paperwork in full. That is reason enough to fire someone on it's own. He also posted in a public channel during a battle, after admitting he was within a foot of another ship, 70km is nothing, we all know that. I haven't been here very long, so maybe I'm a step back from you all who have been playing for months or years, but IMHO, anyone writing from the perspective of a fired employee is not necessarily to be trusted completely, whether they were wronged or not. The bottom line is, CCP exists to make money. When it's players are upset, they stop playing and paying for memberships, and the company makes less money. Not only is there no better way to get back at CCP than raising exactly this kind of ruckus, but CCP has all the motivation in the world to correct the problem and deal with it accordingly. When publicity is the only thing that can interrupt the flow of new players into the game, and cause older players to quit, it makes perfect sense that part of damage control is limiting what is posted/published on the subject. Simply because a petition was not responded to, or a post was deleted, or an email ignored does not mean they are trying to hide or ignore the problem, it means they don't want to start any more rumors than there already are. Silence is an open invitation to talk and vent, but a single poorly-worded sentence can do far more harm, even when the intent is to placate. You cannot hold corporations to the same moral expectations as individuals. They are not individuals. So be patient. Welp, Looks like you missed the entire point of the thread, go read the last 80 pages and try again.
Hanns Choibman GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:13:00 - [2221] The unbalanced nature of Band of Brothers and their role in the game, that has gone past a balanced playing field, is so extremely obvious to anyone that understands how investing works.. That is, from a logical point of view. And what freebies they started with, back before any investigations started. Not just their freebies, but their Tier 1 players relationship's with the creators of the game that 99% of the rest of the player base does not have. When you compound these factors and their derivative advantages you get a result; that you see today in reality, coincidence? The answers are in the details if anyone at CCP were bright enough, or bold enough to find. ----------------------------------------------
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:14:00 - [2222] Originally by: Jeval Met'markand People are forgetting that Raekhan was already in violation of CCP's (or any other corporation's) employment policy by not submitting his paperwork in full. That is reason enough to fire someone on it's own. He also posted in a public channel during a battle, after admitting he was within a foot of another ship, 70km is nothing, we all know that. I haven't been here very long, so maybe I'm a step back from you all who have been playing for months or years, but IMHO, anyone writing from the perspective of a fired employee is not necessarily to be trusted completely, whether they were wronged or not. The bottom line is, CCP exists to make money. When it's players are upset, they stop playing and paying for memberships, and the company makes less money. Not only is there no better way to get back at CCP than raising exactly this kind of ruckus, but CCP has all the motivation in the world to correct the problem and deal with it accordingly. When publicity is the only thing that can interrupt the flow of new players into the game, and cause older players to quit, it makes perfect sense that part of damage control is limiting what is posted/published on the subject. Simply because a petition was not responded to, or a post was deleted, or an email ignored does not mean they are trying to hide or ignore the problem, it means they don't want to start any more rumors than there already are. Silence is an open invitation to talk and vent, but a single poorly-worded sentence can do far more harm, even when the intent is to placate. You cannot hold corporations to the same moral expectations as individuals. They are not individuals. So be patient. Well. he has never lied to me before. CCP has. BoB has. Who should I trust?
Nazdarovie Minmatar Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:16:00 - [2223] Edited by: Nazdarovie on 27/05/2007 00:16:30 Don't troll please. -Hango Don't use your signature to troll. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Haven Allroon	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:16:00 - [2224] Edited by: Haven Allroon on 27/05/2007 00:15:27 Kuld old anyone ever remember something like this? gut's instinct is to mistrust, I wonder why sum of the situation sounds familier en-d I wish I had dev's I felt like I could trust
Dominique Parr Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:17:00 - [2225] Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Jeval Met'markand People are forgetting that Raekhan was already in violation of CCP's (or any other corporation's) employment policy by not submitting his paperwork in full. That is reason enough to fire someone on it's own. He also posted in a public channel during a battle, after admitting he was within a foot of another ship, 70km is nothing, we all know that. I haven't been here very long, so maybe I'm a step back from you all who have been playing for months or years, but IMHO, anyone writing from the perspective of a fired employee is not necessarily to be trusted completely, whether they were wronged or not. The bottom line is, CCP exists to make money. When it's players are upset, they stop playing and paying for memberships, and the company makes less money. Not only is there no better way to get back at CCP than raising exactly this kind of ruckus, but CCP has all the motivation in the world to correct the problem and deal with it accordingly. When publicity is the only thing that can interrupt the flow of new players into the game, and cause older players to quit, it makes perfect sense that part of damage control is limiting what is posted/published on the subject. Simply because a petition was not responded to, or a post was deleted, or an email ignored does not mean they are trying to hide or ignore the problem, it means they don't want to start any more rumors than there already are. Silence is an open invitation to talk and vent, but a single poorly-worded sentence can do far more harm, even when the intent is to placate. You cannot hold corporations to the same moral expectations as individuals. They are not individuals. So be patient. Welp, Looks like you missed the entire point of the thread, go read the last 80 pages and try again. Yes, the last 80 or so pages are GS trying to tie BoB to a Dev trying to correct a possible glitch/bug/error and a re-hash of past events.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:18:00 - [2226] Originally by: Dominique Parr Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Jeval Met'markand People are forgetting that Raekhan was already in violation of CCP's (or any other corporation's) employment policy by not submitting his paperwork in full. That is reason enough to fire someone on it's own. He also posted in a public channel during a battle, after admitting he was within a foot of another ship, 70km is nothing, we all know that. I haven't been here very long, so maybe I'm a step back from you all who have been playing for months or years, but IMHO, anyone writing from the perspective of a fired employee is not necessarily to be trusted completely, whether they were wronged or not. The bottom line is, CCP exists to make money. When it's players are upset, they stop playing and paying for memberships, and the company makes less money. Not only is there no better way to get back at CCP than raising exactly this kind of ruckus, but CCP has all the motivation in the world to correct the problem and deal with it accordingly. When publicity is the only thing that can interrupt the flow of new players into the game, and cause older players to quit, it makes perfect sense that part of damage control is limiting what is posted/published on the subject. Simply because a petition was not responded to, or a post was deleted, or an email ignored does not mean they are trying to hide or ignore the problem, it means they don't want to start any more rumors than there already are. Silence is an open invitation to talk and vent, but a single poorly-worded sentence can do far more harm, even when the intent is to placate. You cannot hold corporations to the same moral expectations as individuals. They are not individuals. So be patient. Welp, Looks like you missed the entire point of the thread, go read the last 80 pages and try again. Yes, the last 80 or so pages are GS trying to tie BoB to a Dev trying to correct a possible glitch/bug/error and a re-hash of past events. Yes, I am pretty sure it is only Goonswarm not ALL the players that are not associated with BoB. Who exactly are you trying to fool Miss Dominique?
Malloc Memrel	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:21:00 - [2227] Originally by: Victor Vision I think the post by Malloc Memrel sums up the concerns fairly well, and also points to possible solutions. I personally am still hesitant to say devs should not play on TQ though. They made this wonderfull game and should enjoy it. This is what my heart says. But my logic tells me that devs playing on TQ obviously can cause problems, and unfortunatly has done so (t20). In light of this and several other comments, I should explain that no one expects developers not to play their game. I'd say a good 80-90% of Blizzard employees play WoW just because they're into it, not out of a sense of duty or anything. I would expect no less from CCP, obviously they're behind the game and its premise or they wouldn't have made it in the first place. What should never, ever happen, however, is these developers playing on the public servers with even a hint, even the barest indication of their private, employee-granted privileges and rights. The minute you step from "I am doing company-sanctioned work on a server that could have no posible influence on our paying customers" to "I am playing for my personal enjoyment amongst all the regular players" you should have nothing at all that grants you power or indicates you even have an alt that does. Every WoW character starts at level one, period, be you developer, customer, publisher, whatever. No favors, no tricks, no magically spawned items. You are the same pathetic newbie scum that everyone else starts as. So when I outlined the seperation of developer and player in my last post, I never intended that to insinuate developers not playing their own game. But to do so in the public server where everyone is playing for keeps instead of the mirror-world test server that cannot negatively impact your paying customers in any way, shape, or form is the height of absurdity. To continue my analogy from before, you could bypass the wall, the moat, etc. and play with everyone else, but only if you stripped down to your underwear first.
Raal Throx Minmatar Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:21:00 - [2228] What to say. I worked in the industry for about 7 years started as a GM for Shadowbane and then moved on to EQ when the former kinda went downhill. Did that for a good 5 years, then worked as a QA team lead. To be honest I would of thought something like this would never happen in a pretty popular MMO, especially not to the extend it has been going as in having the Dev's/Gm's MSN???? WTF seriously CCP. The one time something kind of like this happend(GM spawning himself some runes for shadowbane etc) he got fired about 10 minutes after people checked the logs, that is in Ubisoft it was dealt with fast I assume there are different business practises at work in Iceland. Kinda sad since there is no other option other then Eve.
Yunii Freedom Builders Inc. Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:22:00 - [2229] Originally by: Richard Johannson If you feel that one of your chars has been unjustly banned please open a petition (for ingame bans) or mail [email protected] (for forum bans). -Hango If his account is banned won't they need an outside way to contact gm's ? ------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers.
Zerv Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:23:00 - [2230] Edited by: Zerv on 27/05/2007 00:21:52 the fact that t20 is still working for CCP says volumes about the company. Reminds me of governments and their sad politics, not a solid company.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:24:00 - [2231] Originally by: G Barker If CCP hadn't started the mass bannings and message board deletions to try and shut them up, they wouldn't have had to use such a drastic measure. GS was doing what they had to do to bring truth to the playerbase. CCP was trying to use brute force to shut them up. lol, i dont get tired of hearing that broken logic. Thats the measure for their 'justice' huh? I'm sure there is no way possible any of the ppl that were 'shut up' were acting inappropriately themselves... How is it a huge cover up when CCP tries to handle things internally ESPECIALLY when its obviously an internal issue? Was anyone in game effected in any way by what has happened? Nothing goons pulled can be justified, its a joke to pose otherwise. Anyone that maliciously spams these forums to take them down are being selfish attention snip and should be perma-banned. Thats justice! Anyone trying to damage CCP as a company because they are think they are on some crusade should be perma-banned. Thats justice. So now that its out, all the goons will just let CCP deal with it right? Not going to run around the internet trashing our game and our community? right? I hope every player threatening to quit makes good on their threats. If you think THIS is evidence the game is rigged against you, you definitely should.
Dominique Parr Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:25:00 - [2232] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Yes, I am pretty sure it is only Goonswarm not ALL the players that are not associated with BoB. Who exactly are you trying to fool Miss Dominique? I'm not trying to fool anyone. My post was not filled with propoganda, merely my opinion as to how the last 50+ pages of unabated name calling, unsubstantiated evidence, and hersay that I have read through unraveled and I can't help but wonder why people won't just let CCP handle the investigation and let them post their results before throwing this unneccessary tantrum?
Zion Lior GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:27:00 - [2233] That ex-blizzard employee post was probably the best of the entire thread and encapsulated the entire issue. There is not anything more to discuss. CCP how you respond to this will decide whether this game has ANY future at all.
Haven Allroon	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:27:00 - [2234] Originally by: Dominique Parr I'm not trying to fool anyone. My post was not filled with propoganda, merely my opinion as to how the last 50+ pages of unabated name calling, unsubstantiated evidence, and hersay that I have read through unraveled and I can't help but wonder why people won't just let CCP handle the investigation and let them post their results before throwing this unneccessary tantrum? The last time someone dug up evidence, 5 of his accounts were banned, what are they supposed to do?
An Anarchyyt	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:27:00 - [2235] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: An Anarchyyt So, while the company is private, the internet is not a private venture, the server doesn't do much good without the internet backbone. And, the US government has indeed ruled the internet as a whole is a frespeech zone, given to at least the same protection as newspapers, books, and the like (See: Reno v. ACLU). I am trying to keep everything brief here, and not go indepth on anything. But basically, even though the above is true, and that you are entitled to free speech on the internet, and a private company still has to grant people certain rights, there is one thing here that makes this point moot, and this whole post worthless. You're actually wrong on your points on free speech.... Whenever free speech is mentioned in any constitutions and laws, it is to define that the GOVERNMENT can not interfere with free speech. In no way can any private entity be forced to publish your view with a free speech argument. If that was the case, I'd expect The Times to be 829562843 pages every day from people demanding they print something... So no, a company doesn't HAVE to grant their customers any rights above which is in the EULA, apart from normal statutory rights like right of return of faulty goods etc., none of which covers free speech (afaik)... Not judging whether people should or should not be allowed to post anything, just saying there's no legal requirement for a private company to allow so... One thing first, I am not referring to anything outside of things outside of the internet. But about The Times, if they have comments enabled on their articles on line (I don't know), and they just deleated things they didn't like (aside from hate speech and the like), then that would be what I'm referringto. While you can make the argument in terms of it infringing on "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," The argument that I see carrying more weight, in setting up a precedent is that the entity referred to as the internet, is not solely a private venture, and a heafty part of it is a government infrastructure. But then again, once a corporation is created, the corparation is legally a citizen of that state, so that opens up a further can of worms. Basically, all I am saying here is that this is, infact, a major grey area. I am not a lawyer though, and the business I have is not incorporated, so take this for what it is worth.
Neue Ziel	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:28:00 - [2236] Originally by: Witty Moniker Edited by: Witty Moniker on 26/05/2007 21:41:47 CBA reading 80 pages, so I'll just post my opinion here. Do you know how silly all this sounds. Are you trying to say that no one who works for a customer support company is allowed to play their own game? Yes. I think that's what a lot of us are saying largely because it's not the first time it's happened. Baring that it's arguable that they nobody should know that they are developers when they do play the game for their own enjoyment; that knowledge seems to have been abused by other PCs. I would submit that Developers should only play their own game on accounts without developer privileges/powers/abilities that can be so easily exploited; and when they DO log on as Developers with those powers they should only do so in a manner where their actions are carefully documented and limited to de-bugging and system testing. It should also be obvious to other PCs that these are developers with special powers above those of regular players. That keeps everybody reasonably honest. Status quo is not acceptable here. This is at least the second scandal where Developers have been accused of cheating. Something needs to be done.
Jack Bowers Caldari K.O.R.	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:28:00 - [2237] First off, I rarely post anything of these forums, but the above topic is too good to pass up. I have no vested interest in Goons, or BoB, or whoever. I agree 100% that those who work for CCP should NOT be allowed to play. Too much can happen because of this...the dev's are human just like us, and can be interfering in an unfair way without even realizing it or breaking rules set forth by CCP. As for the reporter bumping a dread...who cares...did he scratch your paint? Telling a reporter to bugger off when he isn't directly involved in the combat isn't even a ligitimate request, and the reporter responding to the insults in local is equally rediculous. As for a BoB member contacting a dev through msn, that would be fine if they were to discuss something not involved in eve because they are friends in RL. But to discuss an eve related topic is unfair...can't tell you how many times I would have loved an immediate response to my concerns in times I deemed them an emergency. A reporter bumping a dread is NOT an emergency, he is there to do a job, and thinking that you can order him around is just more arrogance on BoB's part. I mean, BoB clearly admits in many local channels, "We are going to take over all of 0.0", and they've even declared that they wouldn't allow the Goons to exist in Eve, even though they hold just as much right to as BoB does. Who are they to decide that anyway?! As for CCP controlling the outcome of RP events. That is screwed up, as CCP stated that they'd be putting the storyline in the hands of the players. There is a bigger problem here than just isolated incidents...and it is the classic "older player vs. newer player" conflict that is becoming more of a problem. Not to mention, CCP DOES NOT give all the needed info needed to play this game to begin with. How about making a more specific public player guide that explains all the rules and exceptions for once, instead of making it the responsibility of players to try and make guides in the forums. For one, I hate forums, lol. Back to the first issue, if I had known that all the 4 year old players pretty much hold dominion over EVE, I would not have gotten interested. Especially when I learned that BoB pretty much controls a section of space greater than any other alliance, and has all the oldest players in the game pretty much. If this isn't clear to anyone yet, but BoB only cares about themselves, hence why LV paid the price for backing them up. It was extremely logical on BoB's part tho...why betray an ally when they can just allow thier enemies to rip them apart, so later on down the line, BoB can just move in and take the territory once owned by thier allies later...makes too much sense right? ;) And who would be the wiser? Regardless, if 100% of 0.0 is taken over by BoB, then where is the fun in playing this game? What grand goals would anyone have aside from being an empire based corp/alliance? In America, when a company grows too powerful, we break them apart into smaller competing companies so the "little guy" can still stand a chance. I for one didn't start playing eve because I wanted to live in the shadow of some guy who has been playing for a couple more years. As it is, my RP'er friends are talking about leaving Eve all together just on the fixed-outcome stuff. If CCP favors BoB so much, when BoB controls all of 0.0, I hope they can enjoy it as they'll have angered every pilot in eve, and ruined the game. A solution regarding the older player vs. newer player conflict must be arranged, and soon, and those smart enough to see my logic can understand how fixing this will solve ALOT of the banter that has occured in this thread. CCP can eliminate all future allegations by simply making it illegal for thier employees to play, simple as that. Not like they pay to play anyway like the rest of us. As for reporters, I am sure CCP is clever enough to make thier reporters more covert. My opinions do not reflect my corp.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:29:00 - [2238] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 00:27:59 Originally by: Dominique Parr Yes, the last 80 or so pages are GS trying to tie BoB to a Dev trying to correct a possible glitch/bug/error and a re-hash of past events. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure no-one in Goonfleet/swarm has alleged that Sharkbait was working for BoB, we're simply trying to find out why he decided to join the DS1 and make himself director without ever informing their CEO and why petitions asking for explanation were deleted. Not everything revolves around your alliance this is simply a case of very, very poor customer support that needs a full explanation. As for the "re-hash of past events" BoB directors admitting they maintain contact with developers via out of game means is a pretty new event.
odduin	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:29:00 - [2239] I'll be watching to see what the results are but this is the final straw for me. It removes any desire i have to keep paying/playing.
dynamic lady	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:30:00 - [2240] Originally by: Ling Xiao Originally by: PunkRoadkill Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. This is a fantastic post btw. i have to agree, a rather well put post. Indeed, probably the best put argument in the whole thread. best post, CCP READ THIS and learn. also pls for your sake and eve's sake, dont ignore the other issue and enough covering up....
Di modial	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:30:00 - [2241] Recruitments belong in the recruitment forum. -Hango
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:31:00 - [2242] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: G Barker If CCP hadn't started the mass bannings and message board deletions to try and shut them up, they wouldn't have had to use such a drastic measure. GS was doing what they had to do to bring truth to the playerbase. CCP was trying to use brute force to shut them up. lol, i dont get tired of hearing that broken logic. Thats the measure for their 'justice' huh? I'm sure there is no way possible any of the ppl that were 'shut up' were acting inappropriately themselves... How is it a huge cover up when CCP tries to handle things internally ESPECIALLY when its obviously an internal issue? Was anyone in game effected in any way by what has happened? Nothing goons pulled can be justified, its a joke to pose otherwise. Anyone that maliciously spams these forums to take them down are being selfish attention snip and should be perma-banned. Thats justice! Anyone trying to damage CCP as a company because they are think they are on some crusade should be perma-banned. Thats justice. So now that its out, all the goons will just let CCP deal with it right? Not going to run around the internet trashing our game and our community? right? I hope every player threatening to quit makes good on their threats. If you think THIS is evidence the game is rigged against you, you definitely should. Because we are accusing them of being unable to police themselves, which would as i'm sure you already know, ultimately make anything an internal investigation turns up meaningless. But hey, Go on about broken logic as much as you want, i'm sure there are still maybe one or two eve-o browsers that were ultimately unaffected by this whole deal that aren't convinced that you're full of stupid.
Scouty McPiperunner	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:31:00 - [2243] Every last one of you CAOD rejects trying to minimalize this into BoB vs goons need to DIAF. If I wanted blind punditry trying to drown out legitimate impropriety, I'd watch Fox News.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:32:00 - [2244] Originally by: Hanns Choibman The unbalanced nature of Band of Brothers and their role in the game, that has gone past a balanced playing field, is so extremely obvious to anyone that understands how investing works.. That is, from a logical point of view. And what freebies they started with, back before any investigations started. Not just their freebies, but their Tier 1 players relationship's with the creators of the game that 99% of the rest of the player base does not have. When you compound these factors and their derivative advantages you get a result; that you see today in reality, coincidence? The answers are in the details if anyone at CCP were bright enough, or bold enough to find. yeah, the fact bob is so good has nothing to do with the hard work and determination they have put into this game. the fact your losing a war has nothing to do with your inability to adapt, pull allied forces, and beat them at their own game. i remember when i fought bob in fountain.. something like 5 bob caldari ships plugged up one of the pipes, killed anything that came up to them. Up to 3-4v1 odds, they held their ground... i dont remember a dev in a polaris shield boosting their ships? They were simply that good. Its that ability that keeps them winning. Not some tinhat conspiracy. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.
Cory Trevor The Lawn Wranglers	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:32:00 - [2245] Originally by: Dominique Parr My post was not filled with propoganda, merely my opinion as to how the last 50+ pages of unabated name calling, unsubstantiated evidence, and hersay that I have read through unraveled and I can't help but wonder why people won't just let CCP handle the investigation and let them post their results before throwing this unneccessary tantrum? After T20 I think i'm more surprised that anyone would seriously expect CCP to even put on the show of taking a serious look at this issue without public pressure to at least acknowledge that something might not be right.
Steph Wing Gallente The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:33:00 - [2246] Not much to say that hasn't been said already. Really, CCP, I was disappointed before. Now I'm just...I dunno, I'm seriously considering canceling my account. Which is a shame, because I love this game. I would have thought you guys learned something from the T20 incident. Sure, you went and created the Internal Affairs Department - which we haven't heard from since about a week after T20's infractions were brought to light. Then you arbitrarily decided that the discussion was over and closed the topic. So, CCP, how long until you close this topic too? How can you hope to regain the player trust if you won't even let them TALK about your massive blunders on the EO forums? Closing topics and deleting threads is an extremely bad move, and will only serve to further increase distrust. Besides, if the discussion is occurring here rather than ingame corp channels/IM chats/Kugutsumen's forum, you'll at least know what's being said. I mean, come on; isn't it kinda hard to listen to your players when you won't let them talk? About TGRAD
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:34:00 - [2247] So, you have a friend, that said friend then gets a job at ccp, and what, your suddenly supposed to completely blank him, and hes suppose to blank you? Get real. You have no proof or evidence to suggest that because certain people have admitted having dev's msn address's that they have cheated with the help of the dev. Ever heard of socialising? Also, the ISD member getting fired : 1. He was a reporter 2. He moved himself next to a bob dread "1 foot". Surely this corroborates with the fact that he did infact bump a bob dread. 3. His comments in local, firstly he was a reporter, and iirc if you are asked to leave you must do so, not reply "um.. no". You moan about CCP, saying their customer handling isnt good enough, but when they sack someone for being rude to the playerbase you don't moan? You guys need to stop contradicting youselves and wake up and stop bull****ing yourselves and spamming these forums.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:35:00 - [2248] Originally by: Stahlregen Because we are accusing them of being unable to police themselves, which would as i'm sure you already know, ultimately make anything an internal investigation turns up meaningless. But hey, Go on about broken logic as much as you want, i'm sure there are still maybe one or two eve-o browsers that were ultimately unaffected by this whole deal that aren't convinced that you're full of stupid. that makes goons judge jury and executioner right? cause you 'believe' ccp cant police themselves. why the hell do you even play this game if thats how you feel? you even gave them ample time to deal with the incident right? before you and yours maliciously crashed the website with no regard to teh other players in the game that were using it? must be a proud day for goons
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:36:00 - [2249] Originally by: Steph Wing I mean, come on; isn't it kinda hard to listen to your players when you won't let them talk? last i checked your coming through loud and clear. oh, right, this thread would have never happened if goons didn't 'save the day'
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:38:00 - [2250] Originally by: Mitch Manus So, you have a friend, that said friend then gets a job at ccp, and what, your suddenly supposed to completely blank him, and hes suppose to blank you? (...) People who work are not suposed to use MSN at work. ESPECIALLY to talk with friends. And ESPECIALLY ingeneers. Period. ----- History is made by whinners Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
Steph Wing Gallente The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:38:00 - [2251] Originally by: HankMurphy last i checked your coming through loud and clear. oh, right, this thread would have never happened if goons didn't 'save the day' No need to put words in my mouth. That's called a "straw man". About TGRAD
Jeval Met'markand	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:38:00 - [2252] Originally by: Stahlregen Edited by: Stahlregen on 27/05/2007 00:17:15 Originally by: Jeval Met'markand People are forgetting that Raekhan was already in violation of CCP's (or any other corporation's) employment policy by not submitting his paperwork in full. That is reason enough to fire someone on it's own. He also posted in a public channel during a battle, after admitting he was within a foot of another ship, 70km is nothing, we all know that. I haven't been here very long, so maybe I'm a step back from you all who have been playing for months or years, but IMHO, anyone writing from the perspective of a fired employee is not necessarily to be trusted completely, whether they were wronged or not. The bottom line is, CCP exists to make money. When it's players are upset, they stop playing and paying for memberships, and the company makes less money. Not only is there no better way to get back at CCP than raising exactly this kind of ruckus, but CCP has all the motivation in the world to correct the problem and deal with it accordingly. When publicity is the only thing that can interrupt the flow of new players into the game, and cause older players to quit, it makes perfect sense that part of damage control is limiting what is posted/published on the subject. Simply because a petition was not responded to, or a post was deleted, or an email ignored does not mean they are trying to hide or ignore the problem, it means they don't want to start any more rumors than there already are. Silence is an open invitation to talk and vent, but a single poorly-worded sentence can do far more harm, even when the intent is to placate. You cannot hold corporations to the same moral expectations as individuals. They are not individuals. So be patient. Welp, Looks like you missed the entire point of the thread, go read the last 80 pages and try again. edit: I'll spell the hell out of it for you It's not about what the ISD guy was doing. It's not about how awesome CCP's business model is (And the jury is still out on that one) It's the allegations that CCP will fire your ass if you so much as look at bob the wrong way. It's the allegations that BoB are also very buddy buddy with ccp It's the allegations that CCP cannot police themselves in regards to this buddy buddy stuff Only the first part of my post was about the individual writing the open letter, and just a warning to question the source. The rest of my post was precisely about the last 80 pages, and setting aside the emotional uproar to pay attention to the people involved and what their motivations are to act in one way or the other. They're not going to ban everyone that posts against them in this topic, or risk any further loss of players. On a side note, if you're really peeved at BoB, think about how much stronger they'll get when all their opposition quits. What if you're wrong about Dev involvement? If you're right, it'll come out in the wash. If you're wrong, you're leaving the rest of us (noobs included) without defense, or hope of resolution.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:39:00 - [2253] Originally by: Mitch Manus So, you have a friend, that said friend then gets a job at ccp, and what, your suddenly supposed to completely blank him, and hes suppose to blank you? No but you're not supposed to ask them to do you favours like putting pressure on other members of staff.
Jareth Siann	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:39:00 - [2254] Well, Since i cant quote something i thought funny, i will post something on topic and not funny. i HATED privateers. However, they played within the games mechanics, and i imagine didnt have a line to dev's via msn. Chances are if they had, they wouldnt have been nerfed. ( yes yes you fixed game mechanics but we all know it was aimed at the privateers actions ) there are How many pages of player discontent over this subject and bob's apparent advantage... will we see bob nerfed. No, i seriously doubt it. Why? well heck they have dev and gm friends on internet speed dial. Privateers get nerfed for working within game mechanics - Band of Brothers get to prosper because they have made friendships to those with power.. eh, chances are the majority of bob arent the problem, just players, its just the ones who have the hotline to get things done out of game approved mechanics, thats the problem here. oh and the aurora allegations too, amusing enough it was zoolkhan himself who told me that many many players from the u'k alliances move on to bob ( recruited ) and bob does host some other rp groups. coincidence? possibly but how many times can coincidence continue to be coincidence? However this could be part of the need for speed initiative, causing so much contraversey that people start quitting.. reduced server stress and lag issues solved in a single incident! /sarcasam/ expects to see the nerf bat applied to his account shortly
Wesley Baird Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:39:00 - [2255] Originally by: Mitch Manus So, you have a friend, that said friend then gets a job at ccp, and what, your suddenly supposed to completely blank him, and hes suppose to blank you? Get real. You have no proof or evidence to suggest that because certain people have admitted having dev's msn address's that they have cheated with the help of the dev. Ever heard of socialising? In an environment like EVE, all communication related to the game would need to be done through a method where logs are able to be kept, hence the petition system.
Nazdarovie Minmatar Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:40:00 - [2256] CCP heres more proof of damage this is causing just received this 2007.05.27 00:37 i saw you post in the current ccp **** (my edit) up thread all my post are getting deleted so if you kindly inform ccp on the thread that my 15 man corp has canceled their subcription renewals i would be most gratefull. Promethian child ex-ceo of UDT Don't troll please. -Hango Don't troll please. -Hango Don't use your signature to troll. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:40:00 - [2257] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Hanns Choibman The unbalanced nature of Band of Brothers and their role in the game, that has gone past a balanced playing field, is so extremely obvious to anyone that understands how investing works.. That is, from a logical point of view. And what freebies they started with, back before any investigations started. Not just their freebies, but their Tier 1 players relationship's with the creators of the game that 99% of the rest of the player base does not have. When you compound these factors and their derivative advantages you get a result; that you see today in reality, coincidence? The answers are in the details if anyone at CCP were bright enough, or bold enough to find. yeah, the fact bob is so good has nothing to do with the hard work and determination they have put into this game. the fact your losing a war has nothing to do with your inability to adapt, pull allied forces, and beat them at their own game. i remember when i fought bob in fountain.. something like 5 bob caldari ships plugged up one of the pipes, killed anything that came up to them. Up to 3-4v1 odds, they held their ground... i dont remember a dev in a polaris shield boosting their ships? They were simply that good. Its that ability that keeps them winning. Not some tinhat conspiracy. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. You didn't fully comprehend what he was hinting at, BoB has been recorded as having cheated, Meaning their abilities are tainted. Now go crunch some numbers and do some crazy hypothesis on what advantages they may or may not have gotten from CCP. He's saying that having such a close relationship with CCP allows for advantages that are incalculable, This is the single biggest flaw in the game currently. In a game where knowledge is key which through that you can attain all else, Any mention that an employee colludes with a player should not happen. Ever.
Mokita Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:41:00 - [2258] Goons are the whine! Dead to all Goons! Goons are spammers, trollers, but no fighters! Anyway, this is a welexecuted plan to derail the EVE community, thanks Goons for your efford, but you will fail! Go to WoW ! We don't want you here!
Hambulance ftw	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:42:00 - [2259] Edited by: Hambulance ftw on 27/05/2007 00:42:31 Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Hanns Choibman The unbalanced nature of Band of Brothers and their role in the game, that has gone past a balanced playing field, is so extremely obvious to anyone that understands how investing works.. That is, from a logical point of view. And what freebies they started with, back before any investigations started. Not just their freebies, but their Tier 1 players relationship's with the creators of the game that 99% of the rest of the player base does not have. When you compound these factors and their derivative advantages you get a result; that you see today in reality, coincidence? The answers are in the details if anyone at CCP were bright enough, or bold enough to find. yeah, the fact bob is so good has nothing to do with the hard work and determination they have put into this game. the fact your losing a war has nothing to do with your inability to adapt, pull allied forces, and beat them at their own game. i remember when i fought bob in fountain.. something like 5 bob caldari ships plugged up one of the pipes, killed anything that came up to them. Up to 3-4v1 odds, they held their ground... i dont remember a dev in a polaris shield boosting their ships? They were simply that good. Its that ability that keeps them winning. Not some tinhat conspiracy. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. I did not post to argue with your assumptions on my meaning, You obviously missed the point, or are diverting, or are incredibly naive. Either/or I don't care to argue for. I said my opinion and that's that. Edit: damn missed my main selection box
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:42:00 - [2260] Originally by: Mokita (...) trolling is forbidden, kthxbye ----- History is made by whinners Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
Leonard Darwin Rosewood Productions	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:43:00 - [2261] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Steph Wing I mean, come on; isn't it kinda hard to listen to your players when you won't let them talk? last i checked your coming through loud and clear. oh, right, this thread would have never happened if goons didn't 'save the day' I wouldn't say save the day, but if you honestly think this thread would have appeared going through behind the scenes measures (ie email) then... well, I guess there is nothing really to respond to if you are really that naive. A company, at least any with good business sense, would not come out, of their own volition, and say they caught employee misconduct unless a great number of the public caught wind of it. That's just common sense. From the sounds of it, certain staff members attempted to make this disappear. Did any of the alleged actually happen? Hell if I know, and I really don't care. There are more disconcerting things happening. Regardless of what the turnout of this situation is, MANY of you people should be ashamed of yourselves. Those on both sides of the issue. It's ridiculous to see you guys bantering over the issue like school girls arguing over which shade of lip gloss is the best this week.
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:47:00 - [2262] Originally by: hango For the guys asking for our MSN addresses, let me tell you that while we're really flattered we'd prefer it if you used email. Thank you. Precisely what should have been said to ALL players by ALL CCP staff. Yet staff is allowed to play with the customers, to fly around in ships with a ôgod modeö button. Free to change, modify, alter, take sides, and manipulate the game environment at will, because were all just pals? What did you expect would happen? Now the customers are waiting. Will there be professionalism, integrity, and impartial management in action? I truly hope you impress us all for I suspect many are on the fence.
Andris Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:47:00 - [2263] " Originally by: Malloc Memrel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase." CCP, this is what you got to live by, if not, i cant see how this is going to end. Too many insidents in too short time. So Hilmar, get your company straight, clear rules, follow them strictly, and you will have no problems with us, the ones that pays your monthly salary. I just hope that the board of directors are following this...
Timple Smythe	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:48:00 - [2264] Edited by: Timple Smythe on 27/05/2007 00:52:35 Wow 87 pages and still going. I guess my only question is why? If it bothers you so much that you lose sleep or allow your blood pressure to rise, then it is no fun. Just cancel your subsciption! Voice your protest that way. If it is no big deal to you then great. You understand that after all is said and done , someone will be chastised, and in the future they will be more careful to keep these things hidden. The big Corps will continue to run things because they have the largest paying base, but they will be more discreet. I hope anyway. I for one enjoy this GAME( It is a game, not real life ), and am about to go back to my blissfully ingnorant noob existence and have fun. I will admit to have been a idiot rubbernecker. Its like that horrible wreck on the highway, you just have to slow down and look at it, to see if there is blood on the pavement. I will definately check back for the updates, just to see if they sprayed off the dashboard. Happy Hunting
Steph Wing Gallente The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:48:00 - [2265] Forgot to add: Anybody interested in a betting pool to see who can correctly guess when CCP will lock this thread? About TGRAD
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:49:00 - [2266] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Mitch Manus So, you have a friend, that said friend then gets a job at ccp, and what, your suddenly supposed to completely blank him, and hes suppose to blank you? No but you're not supposed to ask them to do you favours like putting pressure on other members of staff. And wheres your proof to suggest that MSN was used to ask for a favour on putting pressure on members of staff? O Wait, YOU DONT HAVE ANY
Cailais Amarr VITOC The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:49:00 - [2267] 199951 reads - is that a record? C. Idea: Diplomacy - sig designer - eve mail
Nazdarovie Minmatar Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:49:00 - [2268] Originally by: Thesas Originally by: hango For the guys asking for our MSN addresses, let me tell you that while we're really flattered we'd prefer it if you used email. Thank you. So how come you guys didnt say that to orange and rest of bob then hango ? Don't troll please. -Hango Don't troll please. -Hango Don't use your signature to troll. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Ori hauler	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:50:00 - [2269] To CCP My opinion is simple on this matter . Devs have amazing GOD like powers in the game to do their job. As a result the player base needs to be able to trust them to not abuse these powers. As can be seen by the recent forum shut down its clear that a large percentage of the player base does not trust the devs. Now in the 6 years of MMORGS ive played i have NEVER envountered this problem on this scale before which makes me believe that there is possibly some substance behind it. Now im not going to jump up and down and yell but isnt it now CCP's job to rebuild the lost trust between the devs and the players by taking action. Im not sure what the result from CCP's investigation is going to be but i hope its not going to be asimple document written up to placate the player base .. it needs to have actions and results attached to it. So CCP the choice on what you do now is yours, and i can bet that a peercentage of your player accounts futures depends on it.
Dominique Parr Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:50:00 - [2270] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 00:27:59 Originally by: Dominique Parr Yes, the last 80 or so pages are GS trying to tie BoB to a Dev trying to correct a possible glitch/bug/error and a re-hash of past events. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure no-one in Goonfleet/swarm has alleged that Sharkbait was working for BoB, we're simply trying to find out why he decided to join the DS1 and make himself director without ever informing their CEO and why petitions asking for explanation were deleted. Not everything revolves around your alliance this is simply a case of very, very poor customer support that needs a full explanation. As for the "re-hash of past events" BoB directors admitting they maintain contact with developers via out of game means is a pretty new event. Someone at one point in this thread said that DS1 was spying for BoB. My apologies as i can not point this post out to you, it was last night in the first 50 or so pages. As for this "we're simply trying to find out why he decided to join the DS1 and make himself director without ever informing their CEO and why petitions asking for explanation were deleted."(copy pasted) I'm fairly certain the majority of the posts found in this particular topic do not even address this. And I do admint I have missed quite a many posts, and could have overlooked it, but I have not seen where it is officially stated that the petition was deleted. To make it clear. I have no contact with BoB. If I'm too fly in their space, I fall under the NBSI category. However I have been on and off with EVE since Beta and the one thing that's always kept me coming back was the fact the Developers were interacting with the player base. Eve has come along way in the 4+ years I've been around it and I suspect it is mostly to do with the informal contact between player and developer. Yes I do believe there are limits to "proffesional contact" but as you've stated this is not the core case of this particular topic and this should be addressed. But I would like to also point out, just because "BoB" (I use quotes, cause I suspect others are on friendly terms with the Devs as well) has MSN contacts of friends who happen to be Devs, does not equal to cheating. Since everyone but CCP lacks the resources to investigate this matter wholely. GS (and others) should not jump to forgone conclusions on only half the story.
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:51:00 - [2271] Originally by: Wesley Baird Originally by: Mitch Manus So, you have a friend, that said friend then gets a job at ccp, and what, your suddenly supposed to completely blank him, and hes suppose to blank you? Get real. You have no proof or evidence to suggest that because certain people have admitted having dev's msn address's that they have cheated with the help of the dev. Ever heard of socialising? In an environment like EVE, all communication related to the game would need to be done through a method where logs are able to be kept, hence the petition system. Ye i can see using the petition function as a perfect way to talk to a friend. Send petition -> "Hi m8, how are you?"
Rule2k Fate.	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:51:00 - [2272] oh the drama.....
Ragnar Anchor Minmatar Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:52:00 - [2273] Not to kick a dead horse here but to say that I also am watching this thread as 2 paid for toons and 1 GTC toon are somewhat hanging on a string here CCP. You just may need to offer up a sacrificial lamb. I for one am not interested in playing a game that is ran by an MMO Mafia.
Mika Meisk Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:53:00 - [2274] The issue at hand is important. The majority of replies isnt. I lost like 3 hours of sleep before my finals (ho 3hours of total sleep o,O), monitoring this thread cause I read the original post by goons just too see it deleted over and over again. I dont know any goons and I have rather low expextations regarding them. Regardless this thread caught my attention. The only noteworthy premise in this thread, regarding players as of yet is that outbreak and MC keep their heads cool and are respectful, like in all other forum threads. BOB is inflamatory, coalition is baited. But why are there so few ccp respondes? I agree my first response was when theese facts/fictions were disclosed, was that eve had lost the appeal. this is a game that made me start playing any game again after a 7 year hiatus on the gaming scene. But on the other hand as ccp has, as of yet, not responded and they have allowed this thread (even though their primary response was to lock it) I agree with keeping this of the forums. But they need to respond quic cause players ARE loosing their incentive to play. GL ccp and plz disclose any and ALL information regarding this case. //sry for my poor english but im drunk and tired
gutterslut	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:56:00 - [2275] see niccky01 can u say hanndle it that way??? seems all the other things you say are completely unbelievable this has happened so many time we are all truly sick of it. we pay to play a fair game, doesn't seem like alto to ask for does it? this is what needs to be done if orange species and all the like can chat up ccp instantly and get what they want ban them........... now . show the payers/players u can actually do something positive.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:56:00 - [2276] CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. BoB vs the coalition of family values
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:56:00 - [2277] Originally by: Steph Wing I would have thought you guys learned something from the T20 incident. Sure, you went and created the Internal Affairs Department - which we haven't heard from since about a week after T20's infractions were brought to light. Not quite true; IA jumped on the report of a GM using the name of Miz (of OctoberSnow) in a channel gag about a week ago and resolved that situation quickly and succinctly, IMHO. I have not heard anyone yet say that this incident was reported to IA for investigation before being posted. Given that one of the allegations was disputed on page 2 by the CEO of the corp in question, I have to wonder if they followed any due diligence at all. GOON has a vested interest in anti-BoB dramabombs, and the way they have handled this situation has been deplorable. Consider how much more effective this would have been if paired with cold, hard facts (like all the relevant chatlogs, rather than just the snippets Kae elected to post). I therefore conclude that this attack, while rooted in a good-faith attempt to clear out corruption, was conducted in the least-productive way possible so as to advance in-game political goals, which is kind of sad. Yes, I'm posting with my main, and yes, I'm BoB-affiliated, but check my post history if you think I'm some sort of propaganda-pusher. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Col Grumpy	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:57:00 - [2278] Originally by: Cailais 199951 reads - is that a record? C. No the last one on Bob cheating still holds it, not for long, methinks
Jeval Met'markand	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:57:00 - [2279] Originally by: Richard Johannson " but CCP has all the motivation in the world to correct the problem and deal with it accordingly. When publicity is the only thing that can interrupt the flow of new players into the game, and cause older players to quit, it makes perfect sense that part of damage control is limiting what is posted/published on the subject. Simply because a petition was not responded to, or a post was deleted, or an email ignored does not mean they are trying to hide or ignore the problem, it means they don't want to start any more rumors than there already are " That is no difference, you are hiding BECAUSE you don't want rumor. If a companie lies 6 month to cover something up, do you consider that as "hiding" then? (BPO Incident) The difference is disclosure. Damage control ends with disclosure, cover ups simply don't end. I'm not discussing the BPO incident here, which did end with disclosure (albeit vague).
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:57:00 - [2280] Originally by: Mitch Manus So, you have a friend, that said friend then gets a job at ccp, and what, your suddenly supposed to completely blank him, and hes suppose to blank you? Get real. You have no proof or evidence to suggest that because certain people have admitted having dev's msn address's that they have cheated with the help of the dev. Ever heard of socialising? Also, the ISD member getting fired : 1. He was a reporter 2. He moved himself next to a bob dread "1 foot". Surely this corroborates with the fact that he did infact bump a bob dread. 3. His comments in local, firstly he was a reporter, and iirc if you are asked to leave you must do so, not reply "um.. no". You moan about CCP, saying their customer handling isnt good enough, but when they sack someone for being rude to the playerbase you don't moan? You guys need to stop contradicting youselves and wake up and stop bull****ing yourselves and spamming these forums. Hey fella, noone's disputing the fact that the ISD guy may have been rude. The issue is that BoB got it taken care of through a direct line of communication to CCP that the rest of the player base doesn't have.
Loyal Servant Caldari The Short Bus Squad The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:58:00 - [2281] I am hearing from other players that users are being banned for discussing any of this in game. A person I know was banned supposedly for this. Someone I have known IRL for years... He said they were talking about this in a private conversation... CCP, are you banning people for talking about this in private chats? You did this with the T20 incident... don't start that again. TSBS - Eve's Premier podding service!
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 00:59:00 - [2282] Originally by: Muff Joos Originally by: Mitch Manus So, you have a friend, that said friend then gets a job at ccp, and what, your suddenly supposed to completely blank him, and hes suppose to blank you? Get real. You have no proof or evidence to suggest that because certain people have admitted having dev's msn address's that they have cheated with the help of the dev. Ever heard of socialising? Also, the ISD member getting fired : 1. He was a reporter 2. He moved himself next to a bob dread "1 foot". Surely this corroborates with the fact that he did infact bump a bob dread. 3. His comments in local, firstly he was a reporter, and iirc if you are asked to leave you must do so, not reply "um.. no". You moan about CCP, saying their customer handling isnt good enough, but when they sack someone for being rude to the playerbase you don't moan? You guys need to stop contradicting youselves and wake up and stop bull****ing yourselves and spamming these forums. Hey fella, noone's disputing the fact that the ISD guy may have been rude. The issue is that BoB got it taken care of through a direct line of communication to CCP that the rest of the player base doesn't have. But you don't have any proof of BoB getting it taken care of through a direct line of communication to CCP. And dian admitting some BoB have ccp in their buddylist on msn is not proof.
Julee Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:00:00 - [2283] I think what needs to come out of this is a policy by CCP that anyone bragging about their dev contacts in-game gets banned. That garbage is gonna drag CCP down fast.
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:00:00 - [2284] Edited by: Phelan Driscoll on 27/05/2007 01:01:20 Originally by: Mitch Manus Also, the ISD member getting fired : 1. He was a reporter 2. He moved himself next to a bob dread "1 foot". Surely this corroborates with the fact that he did infact bump a bob dread. 3. His comments in local, firstly he was a reporter, and iirc if you are asked to leave you must do so, not reply "um.. no". You moan about CCP, saying their customer handling isnt good enough, but when they sack someone for being rude to the playerbase you don't moan? You guys need to stop contradicting youselves and wake up and stop bull****ing yourselves and spamming these forums. I'm going to use as many small words in this post as I can. It does not matter that the reporter bumped a dread, if he did. Fine, let's say he bumped a dread, insulted everybody in local, and posted fraps of himself raping a kitten. Fine, fire the guy. Whatever. Quite frankly, I really dislike the reporter guys (you can't shoot them after all). So I could care less that they fired one. The problem with the ISD reporter incident is that the incident was fixed THROUGH OUT OF GAME MEANS. If Chowdown, whoever, had FILED A PETITION sying "this guy's bumping our stuff and effecting gameplay", that's totally cool. The problem is that they have an information/petition channel that 99% of the other folks in this game don't. And we don't know what else has been passed along that. Again, the problem isn't bumping dreads and firing reporters. The problem is personal instant contact to get things fixed outside the normal in game channels. If you read ALL the BOB related "Of COURSE we talk to devs" posts, combined with this, there's enough evidence going around. They've admitted to it. They just think they deserve it and it's all okay.
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:01:00 - [2285] Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Mitch Manus Also, the ISD member getting fired : 1. He was a reporter 2. He moved himself next to a bob dread "1 foot". Surely this corroborates with the fact that he did infact bump a bob dread. 3. His comments in local, firstly he was a reporter, and iirc if you are asked to leave you must do so, not reply "um.. no". You moan about CCP, saying their customer handling isnt good enough, but when they sack someone for being rude to the playerbase you don't moan? You guys need to stop contradicting youselves and wake up and stop bull****ing yourselves and spamming these forums. I'm going to use as many small words in this post as I can. It does not matter that the reporter bumped a dread, if he did. Fine, let's say he bumped a dread, insulted everybody in local, and posted fraps of himself raping a kitten. Fine, fire the guy. Whatever. Quite frankly, I really dislike the reporter guys (you can't shoot them after all). So I could care less that they fired one. The problem with the ISD reporter incident is that the incident was fixed THROUGH OUT OF GAME MEANS. If Chowdown, whoever, had FILED A PETITION sying "this guy's bumping our stuff and effecting gameplay", that's totally cool. The problem is that they have an information/petition channel that 99% of the other folks in this game don't. And we don't know what else has been passed along that. Again, the problem isn't bumping dreads and firing reporters. The problem is personal instant contact to get things fixed outside the normal in game channels. And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ?
Prismatica Gallente The Praxis Initiative FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:03:00 - [2286] Edited by: Prismatica on 27/05/2007 01:03:09 There's a long history of corruption between BoB and unscrupulous employees. Is it any surprise that it's still happening? This is only the stuff that's getting out. Imagine what's happening behind the scenes that we never see. What corrective actions were taken on those previous proven and admitted scandals? Nothing! Of course it's going to keep happening! CCP leadership has already shown that you can be corrupt and get away with it. This is the last straw. I've been playing two accounts since '03, and they'll both be canceled if nothing is done again. What's the point in playing in a universe that's been PREDESTINED by corrupt employees to be ruled by BoB?
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:03:00 - [2287] Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Let me ask you this... what kind of "proof" would you accept? -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:04:00 - [2288] Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:03:22 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Let me ask you this... what kind of "proof" would you accept? Actual proof, instead of Weak assumptions and Post Hoc thoughts that are being used so far.
Lonewolf274PD	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:06:00 - [2289] Hmm this reminds me of that movie (A Few Good Men)!!! You can't handle the truth!! So when we actually learn the truth we will probably see that we are little mice running blindly around the labrynth while they the DEVS watch their little pawns fight each other. It seems to me that we are here just for their amusement as tools within their own little office wars using EvE as their battle ground. This is just a Hypothetical conclusion. Other than that BoB aka BoD needs to be broken apart and all devs if needing to fix issues here should be given a specific ship period when they need to be ingame. If they want to play thats fine play as a regular character without cheating so it's fun for everyone!!!!!!
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:07:00 - [2290] Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Chain of events: 1)Reporter bumps dread. 2)BOB member basically tells reporter to get out or he'll "talk to Eris" over MSM and get rid of them. 3)Reporter refuses. 4)In a very short time span, reporter is fired. That's enough to start a court case right there.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:07:00 - [2291] Edited by: HankMurphy on 27/05/2007 01:06:39 /me looks up Phelan, i'm gonna take a guess and say you never went to law school. Originally by: Leonard Darwin Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Steph Wing I mean, come on; isn't it kinda hard to listen to your players when you won't let them talk? last i checked your coming through loud and clear. oh, right, this thread would have never happened if goons didn't 'save the day' I wouldn't say save the day, but if you honestly think this thread would have appeared going through behind the scenes measures (ie email) then... well, I guess there is nothing really to respond to if you are really that naive. A company, at least any with good business sense, would not come out, of their own volition, and say they caught employee misconduct unless a great number of the public caught wind of it. That's just common sense. From the sounds of it, certain staff members attempted to make this disappear. Did any of the alleged actually happen? Hell if I know, and I really don't care. There are more disconcerting things happening. Regardless of what the turnout of this situation is, MANY of you people should be ashamed of yourselves. Those on both sides of the issue. It's ridiculous to see you guys bantering over the issue like school girls arguing over which shade of lip gloss is the best this week. your right, i do believe ccp would have investigated it and made us aware. Thats exactly what i would expect from them. they have made many measures to ensure the outright misconduct that occured in the past would not occur again. i dont believe their current business model has room for making a practice of sweeping things under the rug. We can speculate all we want, we will never know what CCP 'would have done'. You can call me naive for my need to see proof of any wrong doing even close to the scale of the t20 incident before i screamed bloody murder on the company as a whole. In this case, its almost laughable as NOTHING occurred to give anyone an in-game advantage. Does it get anymore witch hunt -esqe? if I didn't trust ccp, i wouldn't be giving them my money every month. am i naive for that? perhaps. I would be more likely to consider the ppl shelling out $$ for a game they have convinced themselves is rigged as just plain dumb.
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:07:00 - [2292] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Wesley Baird Originally by: Mitch Manus So, you have a friend, that said friend then gets a job at ccp, and what, your suddenly supposed to completely blank him, and hes suppose to blank you? Get real. You have no proof or evidence to suggest that because certain people have admitted having dev's msn address's that they have cheated with the help of the dev. Ever heard of socialising? In an environment like EVE, all communication related to the game would need to be done through a method where logs are able to be kept, hence the petition system. Ye i can see using the petition function as a perfect way to talk to a friend. Send petition -> "Hi m8, how are you?" Rubbish, My secretary is my friend, yet when I am conducting business, she will refer to me as ôSirö After hours is when formalities drop, not during business, and certainly not in the company of clients.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:08:00 - [2293] Originally by: Mitch Manus Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:03:22 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Let me ask you this... what kind of "proof" would you accept? Actual proof, instead of Weak assumptions and Post Hoc thoughts that are being used so far. they would settle on the neighbours sisters mums cat as being proof coz it purred. They are so blinded by hatred and there inability to do anything in game that they will do ANYTHING, to hurt bob and ccp. They certainly don't like this game like normal folks, instead they are hellbent on there crusade of chasing shadows because 1 man made a mistake in the past so it must mean they are all devs . It's so ridiculous it's sad BoB vs the coalition of family values
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:08:00 - [2294] Originally by: Mitch Manus Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:03:22 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Let me ask you this... what kind of "proof" would you accept? Actual proof, instead of Weak assumptions and Post Hoc thoughts that are being used so far. Care to be a little more specific? It seems the typical community reaction to chat logs is something along the lines of "those can be forged", same with screen shots, videos, game logs, etc. In light of that, what sort of proof can be given for ANYTHING that happens in game.. or out of game for that matter? -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Grox	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:09:00 - [2295] this is bussiness, caught tried by youre peers and found guilty. now enact judgement ccp.. just like enron, all and any one invlved supsepended locked out till found out, and you need to hire a third party , you cannot trust yourself, and we dont, and your;e pr staff should be advising this now. or fired. all assets of any corps found to have ever had any, contact or supsicions should have all assets locked down, pos;s etc till find out, if found guilty. then banned. plz handle this like bussiness,,, 3/4 of eve are mature players and have lawyers to call themselves,
Phocas Lebournes Minmatar New Justice Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:10:00 - [2296] Originally by: Mitch Manus Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:03:22 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Let me ask you this... what kind of "proof" would you accept? Actual proof, instead of Weak assumptions and Post Hoc thoughts that are being used so far. Define "actual proof" please.
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:11:00 - [2297] Originally by: HankMurphy Edited by: HankMurphy on 27/05/2007 01:06:39 /me looks up Phelan, i'm gonna take a guess and say you never went to law school. I said it's enough to start one. I'm figuring that you never did either. And not just because you type like a 5 year old.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:11:00 - [2298] Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Originally by: Mitch Manus Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:03:22 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Let me ask you this... what kind of "proof" would you accept? Actual proof, instead of Weak assumptions and Post Hoc thoughts that are being used so far. Define "actual proof" please. Well seeing as your lot are banging on about the msn, how about ' proof ' of the msn, hmmmm BoB vs the coalition of family values
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:12:00 - [2299] Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:11:43 Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Chain of events: 1)Reporter bumps dread. 2)BOB member basically tells reporter to get out or he'll "talk to Eris" over MSM and get rid of them. 3)Reporter refuses. 4)In a very short time span, reporter is fired. That's enough to start a court case right there. No, thats a way to lose a court case. Your assuming that one thing caused another to occur, also known as post hoc. Its a flaw mate, not strong evidence.
Bullitnutz Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:12:00 - [2300] Just a question, how many people here watch, or know someone who watches G4TV?
Baron Dots	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:13:00 - [2301] Seriously, BOB is a disgrace. They were handed the best region in game, they did not need to conquer it. That region then had the best plexes added to them. They had very rewarding events occur in their space. They were handed T2 BPO's. They pump out titans as if they were dev-spawned. I can only imagine the no-talent players that flog that alliance to reap the benefits of cheating.
Dominique Parr Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:18:00 - [2302] Originally by: Baron Dots Seriously, BOB is a disgrace. They were handed the best region in game, they did not need to conquer it. That region then had the best plexes added to them. This is coming from a 3 month old alt that wasn't even around at the time BoB was started probably over a year and a half ago. Which I happened to be around for, they weren't given it, they aggressivlly took it. The previous inhabitants met an unfortunate chain of events; BoB, [5] and the fleeing lot of 0.0 miners.
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:18:00 - [2303] Originally by: Octin Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Originally by: Mitch Manus Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:03:22 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Let me ask you this... what kind of "proof" would you accept? Actual proof, instead of Weak assumptions and Post Hoc thoughts that are being used so far. Define "actual proof" please. Well seeing as your lot are banging on about the msn, how about ' proof ' of the msn, hmmmm Umm Dianabolic said himself that he uses MSN to contact DEVS/GMS. Yes, he admitted to talking to Devs etc in social manner. No where did he say he used it to make a Dev put pressure on a ISD member and get him fired.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:19:00 - [2304] Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: HankMurphy Edited by: HankMurphy on 27/05/2007 01:06:39 /me looks up Phelan, i'm gonna take a guess and say you never went to law school. I said it's enough to start one. I'm figuring that you never did either. nah, i'm an engineer. i shudder at the thought of working in the US legal system. anyway, i never heard of a court case based on someone getting fired from their volunteer job for not following explicit rules. nor do i think you can take legal action against someone for knowing another person and messaging them on MSN. so i'm not too sure how your gonna get that case off the ground. Originally by: Phelan Driscoll And not just because you type like a 5 year old. OH SNAP! you goons got me again!
Sir Emi Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:19:00 - [2305] Edited by: Sir Emi on 27/05/2007 01:18:16 hahaha, from what I read here I understand that they opened up this thread so they can tag all of us complaining here and then ban us all in one go and be done with it. Execution style Space Odyssey Maker...
CyberChick The Dogs Danglies Strength in Numbers.	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:27:00 - [2306] I think too many posts are ignoring the main issue here, that an bob alliance has external links of communication to ccp that are not open to everyone else thus giving an unfair advantage and that regardless of whether or not the isd person acted wrongly and bounced a dread, the response from a developer was instant, and not via the petition system that the rest of us have to go through. Whether or not this line of communication offers some sort of unfair in game advantage, its got to be clear that bypassing the proper channels and getting instant results via one of your friends is not fair on the other subscribers! If i have an issue, i have to petition it and wait, why does bob's leadership have special rights via msn?
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:28:00 - [2307] Originally by: Farham Quote: #eve-chaos on irc.coldfront.net you can catch dev's and GM's in there most of the time, now you too can contact them whenever you want. Knowing where to find them is irrelevant. There should not be publicly accessible chat channels for players to interact with CCP employees...period. We have forums. If something needs discussing keep it transparent. Let everyone be able to access the information given and comment if necessary. If the CCP folks want to have a private CCP only chat to shoot the breeze or what not fine...but there should not be a place to "ring up a dev". No. Just no. Thats not the way eve was built, sorry. For the last hmm, 5 years maybe there has ALWAYS been interaction between the community and the devs outside of the forums. If its MSN, IRC, Fanfest email, whatever, its the bond that makes eve work. Im sorry you feel left out that you dont know where to find a dev if you want to talk to one, but if you open you eyes you can find them everywhere. Considering how much of the GM/dev hiring is done from the community and how easy it is to contact a dev/gm does it shock you that people have the IM names of dev's and GM's? It really shouldnt. I agree that using MSN for topics that should go thru petitions might be a bit much. As a reporter if someone petitions you for being there, you have to leave. If you don't leave, and you put up smack about it you lose your job. Its all in the agreements that the person who wrote the letter said he never read or returned. Most people think its cool that there is a reporter there, but sometimes its not a good thing. If you play to strike at someone or something, and then spin the truth in order to turn the tide of the war or something (sneaky yes, but well within the rules of war ;p ) you cant have a reporter there, because then its no longer your word versus theirs. If any party request the reporter leaves, and the reporter doesn't they can open a petition about it and get that reporter removed. Who is to say that the member of bob didn't open a petition first, then ask someone at ccp to look at it faster, or anything of the sort. I dont think we have the whole story, I think the bits and pieces we have were put there in order to stir up drama. But the sharkbait thing, which this topic is about, is a bit troubling, only because there was no communication as to why it was done. I really dont think post T20gate that a dev would visible enter a corp like that especially one that resides within the biggest crybaby alliance in game, and cheat... Its just asking for way to much trouble, imo. __________________________________________
Red Gabba Use Of Weapons	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:29:00 - [2308] With so many people leaving it looks like the lag issue will finally be fixed
Phocas Lebournes Minmatar New Justice Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:29:00 - [2309] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Originally by: Mitch Manus Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:03:22 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Let me ask you this... what kind of "proof" would you accept? Actual proof, instead of Weak assumptions and Post Hoc thoughts that are being used so far. Define "actual proof" please. Well seeing as your lot are banging on about the msn, how about ' proof ' of the msn, hmmmm Dianabolic already admitted that this line of communication exists between certain BoB members and the Dev staff.
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:30:00 - [2310] Originally by: CyberChick I think too many posts are ignoring the main issue here, that an bob alliance has external links of communication to ccp that are not open to everyone else thus giving an unfair advantage and that regardless of whether or not the isd person acted wrongly and bounced a dread, the response from a developer was instant, and not via the petition system that the rest of us have to go through. Whether or not this line of communication offers some sort of unfair in game advantage, its got to be clear that bypassing the proper channels and getting instant results via one of your friends is not fair on the other subscribers! If i have an issue, i have to petition it and wait, why does bob's leadership have special rights via msn? And yet another person, who has NO proof that bob leadership has special rights via msn to get instant results.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:31:00 - [2311] Umm Dianabolic said himself that he uses MSN to contact DEVS/GMS. Yes, he admitted to talking to Devs etc in social manner. No where did he say he used it to make a Dev put pressure on a ISD member and get him fired. He certainly implied it when he stated (paraphrased)'the non-long-term players don't complain when the outcome is beneficial in terms of bug-hunting etc'. It implies it is not just limited to 'bug hunting'. This admits a personal connection that directly connects a player with a Dev. Further, he implies that because he has been playing for 4 years (approx), he has a personal and meaningful connection to Devs. When was the last time that if a 'boss' had to choose to act on the concerns between someone he knew persoanally for 4 years and the concerns of a person he has never interacted with, that the boss didn't side with the known guy? Come on... There's giving the benefit of the doubt, and then there is burying your head in the sand. Nerf ALL 'unofficial' routes for players to interact with CCP employees/volunteers. PERIOD. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:32:00 - [2312] Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Originally by: Mitch Manus Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:03:22 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Let me ask you this... what kind of "proof" would you accept? Actual proof, instead of Weak assumptions and Post Hoc thoughts that are being used so far. Define "actual proof" please. Well seeing as your lot are banging on about the msn, how about ' proof ' of the msn, hmmmm Dianabolic already admitted that this line of communication exists between certain BoB members and the Dev staff. He admitted that they have MSN addys. However he has not said, that they were used to get ISD member fired like all you people are assuming happened. Stop jumping to conclusions and assuming the worst. It is not how strong arguments are based.
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:34:00 - [2313] Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame.
BlueOrca Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:34:00 - [2314] You don't like what is happening now? You do not like CPP and EVE? Do you hate BOB? Do you think this game is not faire? Stop posting and just cancel your subscription! Sell everything you have, give your ISK to a noob and leave! I will not miss you! Just leave and let me play the game that I like.
Ciras Shelby	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:34:00 - [2315] So this is the SECOND time CCP's integrity has been called into question? Very disturbing. CCP launches Favoritism and strikes your Trust perfectly, wrecking their reputation.
Docteur Xentav Minmatar Varietas Acquisition	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:35:00 - [2316] Originally by: Baron Dots Seriously, BOB is a disgrace. They were handed the best region in game, they did not need to conquer it. That region then had the best plexes added to them. They pump out titans as if they were dev-spawned. You are very misinformed. -They fought for and won the regions they now control (this occured before your account was even created...) -They posted and argued quite loudly against the changes made to their region -BoB have only produced 2 titans, a third came to them from another alliance. D2 have infact out produced them with reguards to titans (3 in total) I'm neither pro bob or pro goon but I am very anti "3 month old attention seeking randoms" spouting hyperbole and fallacies = ]
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:36:00 - [2317] Edited by: Sigmorhair on 27/05/2007 01:35:50 Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Originally by: Mitch Manus Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:03:22 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Let me ask you this... what kind of "proof" would you accept? Actual proof, instead of Weak assumptions and Post Hoc thoughts that are being used so far. Define "actual proof" please. Well seeing as your lot are banging on about the msn, how about ' proof ' of the msn, hmmmm Dianabolic already admitted that this line of communication exists between certain BoB members and the Dev staff. He admitted that they have MSN addys. However he has not said, that they were used to get ISD member fired like all you people are assuming happened. Stop jumping to conclusions and assuming the worst. It is not how strong arguments are based. Actually he said they were friends and had a special relationship built up over time and were entitled to it and the benefits that came from it. Learn to read.
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:36:00 - [2318] Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:35:52 Originally by: Mr Friendly He certainly implied it when he stated (paraphrased)'the non-long-term players don't complain when the outcome is beneficial in terms of bug-hunting etc'. It implies it is not just limited to 'bug hunting'. This admits a personal connection that directly connects a player with a Dev. Further, he implies that because he has been playing for 4 years (approx), he has a personal and meaningful connection to Devs. Nerf ALL 'unofficial' routes for players to interact with CCP employees/volunteers. PERIOD. However, it does NOT imply that msn was used to get a member of ISD fired.
Mistress Evita Caldari Booze and Hookers	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:36:00 - [2319] Quote: With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good reason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. Say what you want about WoW but it seems that they have a handle on corruption in their game. CCP should take a lesson from it and implement it.
Zebi Aqua	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:37:00 - [2320] There are 3 main responses to any problem, which one will you chose? 1. Do something about it. 2. Ignore it and hopefully it will go away. 3. Leave. If there is another response then things get hairy. 4. Call my mate the Dev [integrity-less moron] and get more options because the first three stink! Just a thought There are good people and not so good people, which is why Game Masters or police or DevÆs should not play the game period. If you made the move to work for CCP then you wanted to BUILD A GAME! If you made the move to pay your subscription each month then you wanted to PLAY THE GAME! In life we all no the adage you canÆt have your cake and eat it too right? So thatÆs why companies of substance force there employees to choose which position they want to fill, ôSo, do you want to be a builder of a legacy or player in someone elseÆs legacy?ö In closing CCP: Your time looks to be running out, Consumes are indeed a fickle lot and where there is smoke there is fire. DonÆt let it all slip from your grasp now just because your human resources people are giving you poor advise, if any? Good luck, and to those staff and volunteers who are working hard to make this work, keep up the master piece you are painting, we love it and appreciate you all. Marakish Kalar
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:38:00 - [2321] Originally by: Mitch Manus And wheres your proof to suggest that MSN was used to ask for a favour on putting pressure on members of staff? O Wait, YOU DONT HAVE ANY Quote: [ 2007.03.20 06:30:15 ] Orange Species > isd reporters are not to interfere with gameplay [ 2007.03.20 06:30:22 ] Orange Species > that includes getting too close [ 2007.03.20 06:30:25 ] Orange Species > to our ships [ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her [ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition [ 2007.03.20 06:31:00 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough Quote: Admiral_Chamrajnagar: ok anyone know an ISD named rekan? Macayle: why? [IC]Raekhan: I'm right here. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you need to leave that system Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you are making an ass of yourself Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and of ccp
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:38:00 - [2322] Originally by: Mitch Manus Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:35:52 Originally by: Mr Friendly He certainly implied it when he stated (paraphrased)'the non-long-term players don't complain when the outcome is beneficial in terms of bug-hunting etc'. It implies it is not just limited to 'bug hunting'. This admits a personal connection that directly connects a player with a Dev. Further, he implies that because he has been playing for 4 years (approx), he has a personal and meaningful connection to Devs. Nerf ALL 'unofficial' routes for players to interact with CCP employees/volunteers. PERIOD. However, it does NOT imply that msn was used to get a member of ISD fired. Yes it was all a conincidence. Just like all the other cheating bob does. The whole t20 bpo thing, well we just won't mention that.
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:38:00 - [2323] Originally by: CCP Arkanon we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. Hahahahahahahahahahah gasp Hahahahahahahahahahahaha Locked threads, deleted posts, bans for posting links to out of forum info on the subject...absolutely right, that's neither censorship or an attempt to silence customers. Let's not even talk about forum bans I've been hearing about. Words say one thing, actions another....and actions speak louder than words. Mod or Banhammer approaching in 5...4...3...2... I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either. there's no such thing as bad press
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:38:00 - [2324] Originally by: Toffles Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame. No, bob arent the ones spamming the forums causing it to have to be taken down. Bob arent the ones spamming mindless assumptions around on game websites, getting bad publicity for the game.
Phocas Lebournes Minmatar New Justice Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:39:00 - [2325] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Originally by: Mitch Manus Edited by: Mitch Manus on 27/05/2007 01:03:22 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Mitch Manus And yet again, Where is the proof that this was "fixed through out of game means" ? Let me ask you this... what kind of "proof" would you accept? Actual proof, instead of Weak assumptions and Post Hoc thoughts that are being used so far. Define "actual proof" please. Well seeing as your lot are banging on about the msn, how about ' proof ' of the msn, hmmmm Dianabolic already admitted that this line of communication exists between certain BoB members and the Dev staff. He admitted that they have MSN addys. However he has not said, that they were used to get ISD member fired like all you people are assuming happened. Stop jumping to conclusions and assuming the worst. It is not how strong arguments are based. However its looks very suspect if one minute after OrangeSpecies posted his "MSN quote" in local this Admiralwhatever guy jumps into ISD chat, and three hours later the reporter guy was already fired. At least my petitions never got adressed inside of 1 minute.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:39:00 - [2326] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Originally by: Mitch Manus So, you have a friend, that said friend then gets a job at ccp, and what, your suddenly supposed to completely blank him, and hes suppose to blank you? (...) People who work are not suposed to use MSN at work. ESPECIALLY to talk with friends. And ESPECIALLY ingeneers. Period. Every one of my friends, everyone I went to school with, ever developer every sysadmin guy, every comsci teacher, everyone in internet marketing, they are all on my buddy list that I use AT WORK, and we all bull** about NON WORK related ** while we are "WORKING". Not to mention, where anywhere in any sort of evidence (circumstantial or not) does it say the person who joined the ISD room was actually at work, and not at home joining up from there? You know, people can join IRc rooms from all over the world, not just from work.... __________________________________________
Morgain dVher Minmatar The Rat Pack	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:41:00 - [2327] Originally by: fire 59 they would settle on the neighbours sisters mums cat as being proof coz it purred. They are so blinded by hatred and there inability to do anything in game that they will do ANYTHING, to hurt bob and ccp. They certainly don't like this game like normal folks, instead they are hellbent on there crusade of chasing shadows because 1 man made a mistake in the past so it must mean they are all devs . It's so ridiculous it's sad fire 59 - some of us are aware of The Big Lie propagada method. For the rest of you, please see - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie And then check out this great quote: we do not, and never have tolarated to even a slight degree, any cheating within EVE. We are much too fully aware of the possible consequences of allowing any cheating to go on among the GM's.
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:41:00 - [2328] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Toffles Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame. No, bob arent the ones spamming the forums causing it to have to be taken down. Bob arent the ones spamming mindless assumptions around on game websites, getting bad publicity for the game. Yes because having the forums down temporarily is causing people to cancel subscriptions, not blatant favoritism and corruption. As for bad publicity, CCP has no one to blame but themselves for that.
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:41:00 - [2329] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Toffles Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame. No, bob arent the ones spamming the forums causing it to have to be taken down. Bob arent the ones spamming mindless assumptions around on game websites, getting bad publicity for the game. Actually Bob spams the forums all the time. I guess you never read the corp & alliances forum. And yes mindless assumptions like t20 spawning blueprints - that was picked up by other websites as well - but hey it's bob right?
Duff Ray	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:42:00 - [2330] Quote: "That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind." End quote I totaly agree with this statement. Also I'd like to know who is Arkanons' boss? He should be a separate auditing entity that has power over the devs, not the other way around. He should not be working for the devs themselves, that would put any of his public statements at risk, since we wouldn't know if his statements are being influanced by the ones paying his paycheck. I would hope that this audinting job is his only job and that he is constantly watching GM and DEV activities that are irregular or have a high risk of personnal gain and not only when a player notices something strange.
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:44:00 - [2331] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Quote: [ 2007.03.20 06:30:15 ] Orange Species > isd reporters are not to interfere with gameplay [ 2007.03.20 06:30:22 ] Orange Species > that includes getting too close [ 2007.03.20 06:30:25 ] Orange Species > to our ships [ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her [ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition [ 2007.03.20 06:31:00 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough Quote: Admiral_Chamrajnagar: ok anyone know an ISD named rekan? Macayle: why? [IC]Raekhan: I'm right here. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you need to leave that system Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you are making an ass of yourself Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and of ccp Theres no proof to suggest orange species was lying or telling the truth with that comment, and theres also no proof to suggest the second chatlog was caused by the first. He could of heard complaints in channels in-game, on irc channel that many devs and ccp members of staff visit frequently. Lots of Ifs and Buts but no definitve evidence to suggest Bob used a private line of communication direct to CCP to rectify this problem.
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:45:00 - [2332] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Quote: [ 2007.03.20 06:30:15 ] Orange Species > isd reporters are not to interfere with gameplay [ 2007.03.20 06:30:22 ] Orange Species > that includes getting too close [ 2007.03.20 06:30:25 ] Orange Species > to our ships [ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her [ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition [ 2007.03.20 06:31:00 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough Quote: Admiral_Chamrajnagar: ok anyone know an ISD named rekan? Macayle: why? [IC]Raekhan: I'm right here. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you need to leave that system Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you are making an ass of yourself Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and of ccp Theres no proof to suggest orange species was lying or telling the truth with that comment, and theres also no proof to suggest the second chatlog was caused by the first. He could of heard complaints in channels in-game, on irc channel that many devs and ccp members of staff visit frequently. Lots of Ifs and Buts but no definitve evidence to suggest Bob used a private line of communication direct to CCP to rectify this problem. Really? No proof? How about t20? He was in bob - spawned bpo - bob players knew about it. Keep up the lies there bud.
Psyllus Ktenas Amarr BlackHole Entertainment	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:46:00 - [2333] Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 27/05/2007 01:45:02 Originally by: BlueOrca . . . Just leave and let me play the game that I like. How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? Just hit that red X on the top right of your screen, maximise the EVE client and go play.
Atreus Minmatarius Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:46:00 - [2334] Originally by: Mitch Manus Lots of Ifs and Buts but no definitve evidence to suggest Bob used a private line of communication direct to CCP to rectify this problem. for some the evidence will never be enough. EVER what i say is my own opinion and does not represent any entity other than myself
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:48:00 - [2335] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Toffles Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame. No, bob arent the ones spamming the forums causing it to have to be taken down. Bob arent the ones spamming mindless assumptions around on game websites, getting bad publicity for the game. Yeah dude, We've been over this before. Once again, The only reason the forums were threadnoughted was to draw attention to allegations that CCP cannot police themselves. Also it's not a mindless assumption, It's an allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation.
Svaha Norbu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:49:00 - [2336] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Quote: [ 2007.03.20 06:30:15 ] Orange Species > isd reporters are not to interfere with gameplay [ 2007.03.20 06:30:22 ] Orange Species > that includes getting too close [ 2007.03.20 06:30:25 ] Orange Species > to our ships [ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her [ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition [ 2007.03.20 06:31:00 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough Quote: Admiral_Chamrajnagar: ok anyone know an ISD named rekan? Macayle: why? [IC]Raekhan: I'm right here. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you need to leave that system Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you are making an ass of yourself Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and of ccp Theres no proof to suggest orange species was lying or telling the truth with that comment, and theres also no proof to suggest the second chatlog was caused by the first. He could of heard complaints in channels in-game, on irc channel that many devs and ccp members of staff visit frequently. Lots of Ifs and Buts but no definitve evidence to suggest Bob used a private line of communication direct to CCP to rectify this problem. Which is why CCP says they are investigating it, because it has no merit whatsoever? What do you want us to do, break into CCP HQ in the dead of night and steal their MSN logs? In addition, your own head diplomatic monkey freely admitted to it, so I suggest that if you want to keep your story straight, you talk with him about it.
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:50:00 - [2337] Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Toffles Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame. No, bob arent the ones spamming the forums causing it to have to be taken down. Bob arent the ones spamming mindless assumptions around on game websites, getting bad publicity for the game. Yeah dude, We've been over this before. Once again, The only reason the forums were threadnoughted was to draw attention to allegations that CCP cannot police themselves. Also it's not a mindless assumption, It's an allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Ok then, an allegation. But it still doesn't stop the fact that your evidence is based on assumptions.
FatHed Eye of the Abyss	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:50:00 - [2338] Quote: BoB vs the coalition of family values Man, if you only knew how much that statement shows your ignorance, and naivety. Let me try to explain, it's not family values driving the anger towards your alliance, or CCP. It's economics, pure and simple. Why would I pay the same amount of money as you do, but not have the same access as you do? Why would I let you get BPOs worth plenty of isk, and I not get the same? I pay the same monthly rate, I deserve the same treatment. I don't mind that some BoB members are friends with CCP employees. I mind that the employees, who are acting on behalf of CCP, a corporation I used to gladly pay to play a game they made, are actively deleting petitions, and have admittedly given your alliance an advantage in the past. Now, ignoring all of the accusations, the fact that it has happened before, and that there are still CCP employees that have characters in BoB, strengthens the possibility that it would, and will happen again. Sorry, I just don't want to pay for CCP to write the game with BoB winning. So, your sig would make more sense if it was "BoB vs the coalition of capitalist".
XFreedomX	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:52:00 - [2339] I would like to ask Officals from BoB to release a statement about these accusations. I think those members of BoB who can not officially speak for their Alliance should stop posting flaming attacks against goons, don't think you are helping the situation. Thanks.
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:52:00 - [2340] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Toffles Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame. No, bob arent the ones spamming the forums causing it to have to be taken down. Bob arent the ones spamming mindless assumptions around on game websites, getting bad publicity for the game. Yeah dude, We've been over this before. Once again, The only reason the forums were threadnoughted was to draw attention to allegations that CCP cannot police themselves. Also it's not a mindless assumption, It's an allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Ok then, an allegation. But it still doesn't stop the fact that your evidence is based on assumptions. Actually it's based on several admissions in this very thread plus chat logs. Lie faster you are way behind!
BlueOrca Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:53:00 - [2341] Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 27/05/2007 01:45:02 Originally by: BlueOrca . . . Just leave and let me play the game that I like. How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? Just hit that red X on the top right of your screen, maximise the EVE client and go play. Next time pls quote my entire post. And just underline the part that you want.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:54:00 - [2342] Originally by: Toffles Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame. Im prett sure if all of Goonswarm canceled their subs, CCP could layoff all the ISD staff and GMS's they have to keep employed to handle the volumes of **** that get thrown at them because as an alliance GS cant take the fight ingame. I think laying off the probably numerous people they have to pay to keep SA members in check (both in game and out of game) is probably more then the amount of money they get from selling the GTC's to resellers who SA members buy from... __________________________________________
Paula Roscarai	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:54:00 - [2343] Wow, when i first came to this game i heard alot of stuff about BoB being cheaters and whatnot but i dismissed it as nerd jelousy, but the more of this stuff i read the more convinced i become that they truly ARE cheaters. Oh well.. i guess some peoples 15 a month is worth more then others.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:54:00 - [2344] Originally by: Mitch Manus Theres no proof to suggest orange species was lying or telling the truth with that comment, and theres also no proof to suggest the second chatlog was caused by the first. He could of heard complaints in channels in-game, on irc channel that many devs and ccp members of staff visit frequently. So it's pure coincidence that BoB are in contact with devs via MSN, BoB say they will contact a dev via MSN and immediately after they do a dev does exactly what BoB said they were going to ask them to do? But you're right, it could have been done via ingame means, either petitions or an in game channel. It's just that apparently nobody in BoB has any logs of these ingame conversations.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:54:00 - [2345] Originally by: Mitch Manus Ok then, an allegation. But it still doesn't stop the fact that your evidence is based on assumptions. No, the evidence is based on chat logs and bans as well as admissions by certain members. The conclusions may be based on assumptions about that evidence. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Atreus Minmatarius Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:54:00 - [2346] Originally by: Mitch Manus Ok then, an allegation. But it still doesn't stop the fact that your evidence is based on assumptions. this is prob the right time to inform you that this is not the court of law, more of a "court of puplic opinion" what i say is my own opinion and does not represent any entity other than myself
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:57:00 - [2347] Originally by: Paula Roscarai Wow, when i first came to this game i heard alot of stuff about BoB being cheaters and whatnot but i dismissed it as nerd jelousy, but the more of this stuff i read the more convinced i become that they truly ARE cheaters. Oh well.. i guess some peoples 15 a month is worth more then others. just becous you read it doesnt mean its true.
Saori Rei Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:58:00 - [2348] Good lord... so many pages of finger pointing! Honestly the only thing we can do right now is wait for CCPs oficial response from this matter. Once we know that we can decide where to go from here, whether it is a proverbeal lynch mob or everything is just fine and we can get back to playing EvE. Yes the fact that CCPs integrity is in question -again- is very very worrying.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:59:00 - [2349] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Toffles Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame. No, bob arent the ones spamming the forums causing it to have to be taken down. Bob arent the ones spamming mindless assumptions around on game websites, getting bad publicity for the game. Yeah dude, We've been over this before. Once again, The only reason the forums were threadnoughted was to draw attention to allegations that CCP cannot police themselves. Also it's not a mindless assumption, It's an allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Allegation. Ok then, an allegation. But it still doesn't stop the fact that your evidence is based on assumptions. Yeah, Logical and rational assumptions. As in: 1. Bob has had contact with ccp in the past and t20 admitted to it. 2. Screenshots which seem to imply that bob do infact have contact with CCP 3. Dianabolic and other bob members admitting to their contact with CCP and in some cases even trying to rationalise said contact. Resulting in the Allegation being made that bob have unfair contact with CCP So now tell me again, What the **** are you talking about? You've got nothing besides "goons spam forums" "assumptions" and some crap about what dianabolic was really trying to say when they said that they had contact with CCP emplyoees.
FatHed Eye of the Abyss	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:59:00 - [2350] Originally by: raven415 Originally by: Paula Roscarai Wow, when i first came to this game i heard alot of stuff about BoB being cheaters and whatnot but i dismissed it as nerd jelousy, but the more of this stuff i read the more convinced i become that they truly ARE cheaters. Oh well.. i guess some peoples 15 a month is worth more then others. just becous you read it doesnt mean its true. But it is, it's been admitted by CCP in the past, so it is true.
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:59:00 - [2351] Originally by: raven415 Originally by: Paula Roscarai Wow, when i first came to this game i heard alot of stuff about BoB being cheaters and whatnot but i dismissed it as nerd jelousy, but the more of this stuff i read the more convinced i become that they truly ARE cheaters. Oh well.. i guess some peoples 15 a month is worth more then others. just becous you read it doesnt mean its true. Just because you say it isn't doesn't mean it's not. I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either. there's no such thing as bad press
Psyllus Ktenas Amarr BlackHole Entertainment	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:59:00 - [2352] Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 27/05/2007 01:45:02 Originally by: BlueOrca . . . Just leave and let me play the game that I like. How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? Just hit that red X on the top right of your screen, maximise the EVE client and go play. Next time pls quote my entire post. And just underline the part that you want. There is no need for that. Again: How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much?
Sir Render	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:00:00 - [2353] True. We only have the word of a BoB member. And we know what that's worth.
Svaha Norbu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:00:00 - [2354] Originally by: Mitch Manus Ok then, an allegation. But it still doesn't stop the fact that your evidence is based on assumptions. It's not just based on assumptions. It's based on Chatlogs, Past behavior, and openly admitting to it by BoB leaders. This constitutes evidence, but only CCP (and possibly BoB) has access to the whole truth. So the ball is in their court now. But please continue with your self administered cranially implemented colonoscopy. Your repeated denials remind me of a certain amusing Iraqi information minister.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:01:00 - [2355] This is sickening. My large post was eaten by the forums... grr. Anyways, regardless of the outcome of this alleged scandal, CCP needs to change their corporate model. Many other MMO's have structures in place so that players know that if Dev X does A, Dev X gets fired. If player Y does B, player Y gets banned. Further, given the t20 fiasco, CCP should already have fired him, made that public, and enacted a robust and transparent IA system that guarantees (to players) that Dev haxxors carry significant RL penalties. They haven't even done that. That's stupid. He cheated... he also undermined a significant part of the Eve high-end system, and did so with a major power block. Yet, all that happened was he was moved to another department. Good God. From a player's perspective, that means CCP has zero accountability. That's not a good rep, guys. In fact, that's a very poor rep. Very poor. FFS, if a McDonald's employee gave free food to his friends, he'd be fired very quickly. If it became public knowledge that McD was giving out free food contrary to their corporate model, they'd publish a big notice that protected the pricing and availability model they are careful to protect. In short, they would protect their corporate image by reassuring customers that their hard earned dollars were being spent to the same effect as everyone else's. CCP needs to do this. They have not. If they don't, they WILL bleed out more established customers, lose many new customers that only hear 'CCP are cheaters', and limit further subscriptions. That's a stupid business model. I used to love this game, but the last 6 months of CCP screwups have made me disinterested. Frankly, I have 6 days to go on my renewal and I am avidly waiting on CCP's response to this issue before I pay for something else. Become more accountable, transparent and trustworthy, CCP, or you won't just lose my subscription (and those of my friends), but will be left in the dust of other MMO's. Jeez, even WoW is perceived to be more trustworthy than this. Level out your sandbox, noObs. NOW. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:01:00 - [2356] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Mitch Manus Theres no proof to suggest orange species was lying or telling the truth with that comment, and theres also no proof to suggest the second chatlog was caused by the first. He could of heard complaints in channels in-game, on irc channel that many devs and ccp members of staff visit frequently. So it's pure coincidence that BoB are in contact with devs via MSN, BoB say they will contact a dev via MSN and immediately after they do a dev does exactly what BoB said they were going to ask them to do? But you're right, it could have been done via ingame means, either petitions or an in game channel. It's just that apparently nobody in BoB has any logs of these ingame conversations. So if OS came up with some petition logs, you would take that as evidence because thats the evidence your using? If that happened, and OS did open a petition to get rid of the reporter, can we expect an apology from the SA members that took the forums down, and started yet another witch hunt? Can we expect that apology to be circulated thru the MMO websites, can we expect the truth to be circulated thru the MMO websites, or are you SA guys only here to cause harm to the community, and when it turns out you were wrong, and there was no fire, can we expect you to be responsible and mature? excuse me while I laugh my ass off at the last question. __________________________________________
FatHed Eye of the Abyss	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:02:00 - [2357] Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 27/05/2007 01:45:02 Originally by: BlueOrca . . . Just leave and let me play the game that I like. How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? Just hit that red X on the top right of your screen, maximise the EVE client and go play. Next time pls quote my entire post. And just underline the part that you want. There is no need for that. Again: How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? By being ********? Yeah, that must be it. it couldn't be cheating, no, cheating doesn't hold us back, it propels you forward.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:02:00 - [2358] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Toffles Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame. Im prett sure if all of Goonswarm canceled their subs, CCP could layoff all the ISD staff and GMS's they have to keep employed to handle the volumes of ** that get thrown at them because as an alliance GS cant take the fight ingame. I think laying off the probably numerous people they have to pay to keep SA members in check (both in game and out of game) is probably more then the amount of money they get from selling the GTC's to resellers who SA members buy from... So then why are you trying to keep stirring ** in a thread that is in your best interested to have stagnate and disappear off the forums? Oh and again with the baseless attacks about us using GTCs? Come on dude, We're not the ones in bed with the guys who make the godamn game here.
BlueOrca Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:03:00 - [2359] Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 27/05/2007 01:45:02 Originally by: BlueOrca . . . Just leave and let me play the game that I like. How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? Just hit that red X on the top right of your screen, maximise the EVE client and go play. Next time pls quote my entire post. And just underline the part that you want. There is no need for that. Again: How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? I like to read the forums and play, but now I can't play because there is so much to read.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:07:00 - [2360] Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 27/05/2007 01:45:02 Originally by: BlueOrca . . . Just leave and let me play the game that I like. How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? Just hit that red X on the top right of your screen, maximise the EVE client and go play. Next time pls quote my entire post. And just underline the part that you want. There is no need for that. Again: How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? I like to read the forums and play, but now I can't play because there is so much to read. Then don't read it, Especially if it pains you as much as you say it does. Why am i telling you what you want to do?
Reifahal Gallente Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:08:00 - [2361] Edited by: Reifahal on 27/05/2007 02:08:13 Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 27/05/2007 01:45:02 Originally by: BlueOrca . . . Just leave and let me play the game that I like. How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? Just hit that red X on the top right of your screen, maximise the EVE client and go play. Next time pls quote my entire post. And just underline the part that you want. There is no need for that. Again: How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? I like to read the forums and play, but now I can't play because there is so much to read. lol nice one - ffs players of eve - play the game - i dont get any fecking ships nor any other advantage when playing. So wipe off those tears - fight - do what eve was meant to be - pvp. U want small gangs - join the fun - u say we're ebil - join the fight - but stop fecking whining about things bob members never seen and u've never seen. Deal with the time beeing - do sumthing or start the hulk production. Your choice - not the devs, bob's or anyone else's. JUST YOURS!!!! Have fun guys
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:09:00 - [2362] Originally by: Svaha Norbu Originally by: Mitch Manus Ok then, an allegation. But it still doesn't stop the fact that your evidence is based on assumptions. It's not just based on assumptions. It's based on Chatlogs, Past behavior, and openly admitting to it by BoB leaders. This constitutes evidence, but only CCP (and possibly BoB) has access to the whole truth. So the ball is in their court now. But please continue with your self administered cranially implemented colonoscopy. Your repeated denials remind me of a certain amusing Iraqi information minister. a bob member might say something to play with opponets minds.
BlueOrca Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:09:00 - [2363] Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 27/05/2007 01:45:02 Originally by: BlueOrca . . . Just leave and let me play the game that I like. How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? Just hit that red X on the top right of your screen, maximise the EVE client and go play. Next time pls quote my entire post. And just underline the part that you want. There is no need for that. Again: How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? I like to read the forums and play, but now I can't play because there is so much to read. Then don't read it, Especially if it pains you as much as you say it does. Why am i telling you what you want to do? Yes, why do you tell me what to do?
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:10:00 - [2364] I think a reason that this issue is bigger this time is that CCP confirmed that cheating had occurred, and a dev had given bob some very valuable t2 bpos. And not action was taken whatsoever, bob even kept their ill gotten bpos! The cheating issue is one thing, but I think the players of eve dont want bob to get off freely a second time, it was wrong to the bob off the first time. And there is no way inhell bob should get off this time if these accusations are true. (im talking about the ones using their 'friendship' with the devs to get preferential treatment.) Make Mining Better
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:10:00 - [2365] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 02:11:12 Originally by: Popsikle So if OS came up with some petition logs, you would take that as evidence because thats the evidence your using? If that happened, and OS did open a petition to get rid of the reporter, can we expect an apology from the SA members that took the forums down, and started yet another witch hunt? Can we expect that apology to be circulated thru the MMO websites, can we expect the truth to be circulated thru the MMO websites, or are you SA guys only here to cause harm to the community, and when it turns out you were wrong, and there was no fire, can we expect you to be responsible and mature? Somehow I don't think this is an issue we'll ever have to worry about but if it were to ever come about I hearby pledge to the entire Eve community that I would pay my own way to Fanfest, dress up in a fursuit and let Siddy have his wicked way with me.
Leodeus	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:11:00 - [2366] Originally by: raven415 Originally by: Paula Roscarai Wow, when i first came to this game i heard alot of stuff about BoB being cheaters and whatnot but i dismissed it as nerd jealousy, but the more of this stuff i read the more convinced i become that they truly ARE cheaters. Oh well.. i guess some peoples 15 a month is worth more then others. just because you read it doesn't mean its true. Yeah, I guess someone Photoshop'd all those screen shots too. And CCP created a special thread for this topic to be discussed, so I'm sure they did that because they know there is no merit to it whatsoever. No one needs to tell me to 'just stop playing' - my account has already been canceled. To give money to a company you cannot trust is just stupid - it's just a game. Find a new one if this one makes you unhappy, and hit them where it counts - in the wallet.
Bi Tor	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:12:00 - [2367] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Quote: [ 2007.03.20 06:30:15 ] Orange Species > isd reporters are not to interfere with gameplay [ 2007.03.20 06:30:22 ] Orange Species > that includes getting too close [ 2007.03.20 06:30:25 ] Orange Species > to our ships [ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her [ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition [ 2007.03.20 06:31:00 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough Quote: Admiral_Chamrajnagar: ok anyone know an ISD named rekan? Macayle: why? [IC]Raekhan: I'm right here. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you need to leave that system Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you are making an ass of yourself Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and of ccp Theres no proof to suggest orange species was lying or telling the truth with that comment, and theres also no proof to suggest the second chatlog was caused by the first. He could of heard complaints in channels in-game, on irc channel that many devs and ccp members of staff visit frequently. Lots of Ifs and Buts but no definitve evidence to suggest Bob used a private line of communication direct to CCP to rectify this problem. I would like to find proof for you but since I have not been able to find proof of your existence Mitch, I have chosen to give up. There will be no more proof then the proof that this forum is unaltered. Bite Me! Bi`Tor
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:12:00 - [2368] Originally by: BlueOrca You don't like what is happening now? You do not like CPP and EVE? Do you hate BOB? Do you think this game is not faire? Stop posting and just cancel your subscription! Sell everything you have, give your ISK to a noob and leave! I will not miss you! Just leave and let me play the game that I like. Actually, since I have paid.. that's right... PAID hundreds of dollars to play I think I'm entitled as much as anyone else to comment. So, allegations of Dev misconduct, admissions from members of major alliances, proven fixing of certain high-end bpo's etc. All of these topics are ripe for comment and need further explanation. Or would you rather all the people with LEGITIMATE complaints to unsubscribe, so that the cheaters can play by themselves? It may yet come to that, but in the meantime I want to remain in game and have my concerns dealt with. After all, I DO pay for access, and I think my grievances are legitimate. Why don't you leave? Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
BlueOrca Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:12:00 - [2369] Originally by: Leodeus Originally by: raven415 Originally by: Paula Roscarai Wow, when i first came to this game i heard alot of stuff about BoB being cheaters and whatnot but i dismissed it as nerd jealousy, but the more of this stuff i read the more convinced i become that they truly ARE cheaters. Oh well.. i guess some peoples 15 a month is worth more then others. just because you read it doesn't mean its true. Yeah, I guess someone Photoshop'd all those screen shots too. And CCP created a special thread for this topic to be discussed, so I'm sure they did that because they know there is no merit to it whatsoever. No one needs to tell me to 'just stop playing' - my account has already been canceled. To give money to a company you cannot trust is just stupid - it's just a game. Find a new one if this one makes you unhappy, and hit them where it counts - in the wallet. Good for you. Can we have more like him?
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:13:00 - [2370] Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 27/05/2007 01:45:02 Originally by: BlueOrca . . . Just leave and let me play the game that I like. How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? Just hit that red X on the top right of your screen, maximise the EVE client and go play. Next time pls quote my entire post. And just underline the part that you want. There is no need for that. Again: How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? I like to read the forums and play, but now I can't play because there is so much to read. Then don't read it, Especially if it pains you as much as you say it does. Why am i telling you what you want to do? Yes, why do you tell me what to do? Going out on a limb with this one, but is it because your corporation actually tried to sue one of our members over infiltrating your forums. Like for real? As in you are hear by ordered to stand trial in the case of finfleet versus internet goon spy? Like with lawyers and everything? Did i actually get that right or was it all a misunderstanding?
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:13:00 - [2371] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/05/2007 08:12:53 "For pure hilarity, I petitioned about GM policy concerning the allegations, that they should keep their trap shut until the investigation has been carried out. Guess who responded to my petition Yep. Edit: Yes that's right, dev conduct by GM Kutsu is being handled by.....GM Kutsu." JUst wanted to mention this again too..hey Arkanon, is this kosher? I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either. there's no such thing as bad press
BlueOrca Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:15:00 - [2372] Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Psyllus Ktenas Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 27/05/2007 01:45:02 Originally by: BlueOrca . . . Just leave and let me play the game that I like. How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? Just hit that red X on the top right of your screen, maximise the EVE client and go play. Next time pls quote my entire post. And just underline the part that you want. There is no need for that. Again: How exactly are we holding you back from playing the game you like so much? I like to read the forums and play, but now I can't play because there is so much to read. Then don't read it, Especially if it pains you as much as you say it does. Why am i telling you what you want to do? Yes, why do you tell me what to do? Going out on a limb with this one, but is it because your corporation actually tried to sue one of our members over infiltrating your forums. Like for real? As in you are hear by ordered to stand trial in the case of finfleet versus internet goon spy? Like with lawyers and everything? Did i actually get that right or was it all a misunderstanding? I don't know, I was in Delta at that time.
jely	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:15:00 - [2373] Edited by: jely on 27/05/2007 02:18:05 Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius Originally by: Mitch Manus Lots of Ifs and Buts but no definitve evidence to suggest Bob used a private line of communication direct to CCP to rectify this problem. for some the evidence will never be enough. EVER The evidence has been spoken directly from a BoB member Linkage at the bottom of the letter is stsaements of said communications Click the large heading on the top it send you to the goonfleet letten and some other stuff on the bototm
BlueOrca Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:16:00 - [2374] Edited by: BlueOrca on 27/05/2007 02:15:27 twin post
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:18:00 - [2375] Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Toffles Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame. Im prett sure if all of Goonswarm canceled their subs, CCP could layoff all the ISD staff and GMS's they have to keep employed to handle the volumes of ** that get thrown at them because as an alliance GS cant take the fight ingame. I think laying off the probably numerous people they have to pay to keep SA members in check (both in game and out of game) is probably more then the amount of money they get from selling the GTC's to resellers who SA members buy from... So then why are you trying to keep stirring in a thread that is in your best interested to have stagnate and disappear off the forums? Oh and again with the baseless attacks about us using GTCs? Come on dude, We're not the ones in bed with the guys who make the godamn game here. I think I remember seeing a GS member post just a few hours ago in eve general forums. It was a response to someone who just got thier life savings blown up by high sec pirates, I think its ratter fitting to say back to you now. It was something along these lines: "I think you are forgetting this is a game. If you don't like something about it, there is nothing keeping you here. Complaining about it wont make it change. If you don't like it, the game wasnt made for you. Id ask for all your stuff, but since you got it all blown up, there is not much left I would want." I think its rather fitting pointed back at you considering your performance in the war no? ;p P.S. I used to like goonies, hell I used to be a goonie (not in eve), Ive even went to war with LUEsers (who I still cant stand for the very thing I dislike goonies for now) for goonies but in the end SA members are selfish. They have their own site, their own community, ect which means they dont really care what happens to communities that SA members ruin. That imo put SA's in the same boat as LUEsers. Thats why im slingin the mud back at you, because as a whole you guys give ** all about anything outside of your own. __________________________________________
Korillia	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:18:00 - [2376] I'm a pretty new player here. While these sorts of issues don't directly affect my level of game play, I find these allegations and the manner in which they were handled concerning. There is an old adage, 'There's no smoke without fire.' While I do not know enough to be able to say what happened here I can say this. These continued allegations of corruption, let's face it that is what we are dealing with here, wouldn't be popping up for no reason at all. I do not believe that the player base as a whole are a pack of lairs, I do believe that advantage has been by some corps from CCP actions. I'm a WOW convert and while Blizzard had their issues, corruption was never one of them. CCP, take your player base seriously. It is us who make you money, keep it fair, keep it transparent and be willing to admit you are wrong and provide redress when you are. Do this and you'll have not only the largest MMO universe but the most loyal player base.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:21:00 - [2377] Originally by: Leodeus Originally by: raven415 Originally by: Paula Roscarai Wow, when i first came to this game i heard alot of stuff about BoB being cheaters and whatnot but i dismissed it as nerd jealousy, but the more of this stuff i read the more convinced i become that they truly ARE cheaters. Oh well.. i guess some peoples 15 a month is worth more then others. just because you read it doesn't mean its true. Yeah, I guess someone Photoshop'd all those screen shots too. And CCP created a special thread for this topic to be discussed, so I'm sure they did that because they know there is no merit to it whatsoever. No one needs to tell me to 'just stop playing' - my account has already been canceled. To give money to a company you cannot trust is just stupid - it's just a game. Find a new one if this one makes you unhappy, and hit them where it counts - in the wallet. Obligitory Shopped Link. __________________________________________
Ishara Da'Ahn Amarr Emanation Of Malevolent Outcries	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:23:00 - [2378] Wow... this thread is like an intellectual car wreck.... You just have to stop and look.
jely	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:26:00 - [2379] I cant wait to see the thread the stems from the CCP response to the investigation, Question, WHY HAVE POSTS BEEN REMOVED??? some i read yesterday are not here today
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:28:00 - [2380] Originally by: jely I cant wait to see the thread the stems from the CCP response to the investigation, Question, WHY HAVE POSTS BEEN REMOVED??? some i read yesterday are not here today Anything that discusses moderation will be removed. If you have a question about moderator actions or in game bans, there is a post a few pages back with an email addy. Most of those posts and non coherent dribble was removed ;p __________________________________________
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:30:00 - [2381] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Toffles Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame. Im prett sure if all of Goonswarm canceled their subs, CCP could layoff all the ISD staff and GMS's they have to keep employed to handle the volumes of ** that get thrown at them because as an alliance GS cant take the fight ingame. I think laying off the probably numerous people they have to pay to keep SA members in check (both in game and out of game) is probably more then the amount of money they get from selling the GTC's to resellers who SA members buy from... So then why are you trying to keep stirring ** in a thread that is in your best interested to have stagnate and disappear off the forums? Oh and again with the baseless attacks about us using GTCs? Come on dude, We're not the ones in bed with the guys who make the godamn game here. I think I remember seeing a GS member post just a few hours ago in eve general forums. It was a response to someone who just got thier life savings blown up by high sec pirates, I think its ratter fitting to say back to you now. It was something along these lines: "I think you are forgetting this is a game. If you don't like something about it, there is nothing keeping you here. Complaining about it wont make it change. If you don't like it, the game wasnt made for you. Id ask for all your stuff, but since you got it all blown up, there is not much left I would want." I think its rather fitting pointed back at you considering your performance in the war no? ;p So the zinger you've been saving was the same thing that alts have been posting on quite literally every second page in this thread so far "If you don't like it, Quit"? If we didn't care for this community and we didn't care for this game why are we going through so much effort to try and shape it into how we believe it should be: A fair and level playing field? If we didn't care for all of this why wouldn't we have quit and gone played pirates of the burning sea like you say we should, seeing as how complaining is futile and that the most obvious exit is to quit now that our time in the 0.0 spotlight is over? And why are you trying to put a rift between you and us? Last time i checked we are an alliance in the game of eve and part of the community, not some interloper from the black abyss of the internets.
Phocas Lebournes Minmatar New Justice Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:31:00 - [2382] Originally by: jely I cant wait to see the thread the stems from the CCP response to the investigation, Question, WHY HAVE POSTS BEEN REMOVED??? some i read yesterday are not here today They didnt meet the required level of manlove.
Countess Kari Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:32:00 - [2383] I said it before and I'll say it again, personaly I do not see how CCP can allow their employees to play a game that they developed. There will always be a shadow of doubt, and from what I've seen this is the 2nd time something has popped up that makes people wonder. CCP's staff have all the insights to the game, know the ins and outs of the game, I feel that is not that fair over all. I realize rumors are just rumors, and I'll see what happens, but I am not really feeling that great about this game anymore knowing/thinking that CCPs allowing this. If CCP employees were not allowed to play Eve, I think it would make alot of the paying playerbase feel better, but at the same time, we all know Eve is a fantastic game, and CCPs guys love to play it too. If all this stuff they are saying about how this went down with a CCP employee joining a player Corp and all that without prior notification would be ok with me IF he was not also someone who played the game, because there is no way anything he saw while being in the player Corp could be concidered endangered.
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:32:00 - [2384] Originally by: jely I cant wait to see the thread the stems from the CCP response to the investigation, Question, WHY HAVE POSTS BEEN REMOVED??? some i read yesterday are not here today Posts that linked to digg, slashdot, Kugu, etc..any third party site that was tallking about this issue...gone, at least they were dropping within minutes last night. I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either. there's no such thing as bad press
Sperrzone Stardust Heavy Industries Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:34:00 - [2385] I feel very sorry for every legit BoB Member and their Residents/ Pets/ Allies whatever. Every effort you made now has the bitter taste of possibly having a DEV helping you, just because some of your Directors have direct contact to CCP staff or are CCP Staff theirself. If i were a member of that alliance or a friend of them i would feel ashamed now...
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:42:00 - [2386] This saddens me..... I really like the game but due to corrupt GMS I might be forced to quit.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:43:00 - [2387] Originally by: Sperrzone I feel very sorry for every legit BoB Member and their Residents/ Pets/ Allies whatever. Don't worry about me. I'd worry about how you are going to be spending a lot of time in Empire and won't be able to enjoy any of the new constellation sovreingty stuff if I were you, or maybe you could worry about how CCP has horrible policies and how they really need to fix something. But please, don't worry about me.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:47:00 - [2388] OK,, I'll admit some error on my half, I havent been following the story, but if you havent noticed there's over 1000 posts, 95% of which can be filed as rhetoric ******s. But I've finally worked it out. Regardless of how true this statement is or not, this is about a BoB dreadnaught being bumped by an ISD reporter, and the fact that BoB was able to turn round to a dev over msn and get the ISD member kicked. WTF? This is not* worth the 91 pages that have been written. I'm going to continue paying for my account and enjoying eve and not read this thread again. What an utter load of ****. I was expecting something worthwhile following this at least of the calibur of the t20 accusations,, now I know what's going on I'm expecting someone to say 'Poo poo you smell like wiss' to the next poster. Christ,,,,
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:49:00 - [2389] Edited by: Mr Friendly on 27/05/2007 02:49:00 Quote: It was something along these lines: "I think you are forgetting this is a game. If you don't like something about it, there is nothing keeping you here. Complaining about it wont make it change. If you don't like it, the game wasnt made for you. Id ask for all your stuff, but since you got it all blown up, there is not much left I would want." I think its rather fitting pointed back at you considering your performance in the war no? ;p P.S. I used to like goonies, hell I used to be a goonie (not in eve), Ive even went to war with LUEsers (who I still cant stand for the very thing I dislike goonies for now) for goonies but in the end SA members are selfish. They have their own site, their own community, ect which means they dont really care what happens to communities that SA members ruin. That imo put SA's in the same boat as LUEsers. Thats why im slingin the mud back at you, because as a whole you guys give ** all about anything outside of your own. Wow... just wow... a) the goon's comment was likely directed in local reaffirming CCP's rules. That is, the goon blew people up using game mechanics (whether lame or not, they were game machanics) b)comparing this to Goon comments on actions of Dev's that allegedly contravene CCP's rules of acceptable in-game is simply laughable. Obviously the issue at hand is Dev's acting OUTSIDE of acceptable game mechanics. why are you comparing the two? they don't match up. Originally by:** Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Tara Diltani	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:50:00 - [2390] Curious, I know of the t2 lottery scandal, and have read half this thread, But long ago, was there not the exact same allegations leveled at dev help to the BoB of he time Mo0? I have heard varying degrees of support for the same behavior towards Mo0.. From old Mo0 members as well. Is this just a cycle of the devs wanting strong pirate corps? And doing anything to ensure they have them?
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:50:00 - [2391] Originally by: Sperrzone I feel very sorry for every legit BoB Member and their Residents/ Pets/ Allies whatever. Every effort you made now has the bitter taste of possibly having a DEV helping you, just because some of your Directors have direct contact to CCP staff or are CCP Staff theirself. If i were a member of that alliance or a friend of them i would feel ashamed now... I feel bad for those loosing thier space without a fight If I were a member of that alliance or a friend of them i would feel ashamed now... __________________________________________
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:51:00 - [2392] lol, 90+ pages Still smells like a witch hunt. But at least I know the Goon debate technique. Bombard with posts, scream "PROOF!!", and if anyone debates and if even just for sake of argument accepts part of what you say, start screaming "FULL confession" Keep the waters so muddy and so loud that no one can be sure where the argument is going or has been, and SCREAM that any confusion on the part of those trying to dig through it is further PROOF. Having said all that, the only thing I see from this that MIGHT be true ("Might" as in "maybe, but NOT for sure") is that CCP employee allowed a player to accelarate a petition when contacted using an out of game chat. Because it is goons screaming, I have my doubts, but if true, its definately something that should not have happened. "If" it did happen, I'm sure there will be some additional rules laid down at CCP. But feel free to use it as an excuse to say "We cant win ONLY because the game company is against us!!! We quit!!!" and please send me your stuff if you do. Oh, and having the game company against you might just end up being a self fulfilling prophecy. From what I hear, you've trashed games before. Combine that with your treatment of CCP and you just might manage to generate real hostility. They are human too.
jely	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:51:00 - [2393] Edited by: jely on 27/05/2007 02:52:25 Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: jely Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Sperrzone I feel very sorry for every legit BoB Member and their Residents/ Pets/ Allies whatever. Every effort you made now has the bitter taste of possibly having a DEV helping you, just because some of your Directors have direct contact to CCP staff or are CCP Staff theirself. If i were a member of that alliance or a friend of them i would feel ashamed now... Pls don't be sorry for me! I dont feel sorry for them, if a BoB member knows of the scandal but chooses to stay in that alliance then thats just something they have to live with, if you were a true legit player you would leave the alliance and not repp benifits from underhanded deals I am in no Alliance at the momment. And I am a legit player. then you have nothing to worry about, i also am not in any alliance and judgeing by the look of things i dont know if i want to, i have said it before this issue is a major conflict of intrest issue, THIS IS A BUISNESS and buisness and pleasure should not mix much like sex in the workplace should not neither should BOB be msn'ing with DEVS sorry CCP but if you work for the company you should cut all ties, and if they do how will we know if it's being done, that would be a trust issue and how many people on these forums can seriously trust CCP????? really it boils down to that, ask yourself if you trust CCP if so continue to play if not the quit, kinda like a relationship if you trust the girl/guy then they are a keeper of not let them go
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:54:00 - [2394] Originally by: Stahlregen So the zinger you've been saving was the same thing that alts have been posting on quite literally every second page in this thread so far "If you don't like it, Quit"? If we didn't care for this community and we didn't care for this game why are we going through so much effort to try and shape it into how we believe it should be: A fair and level playing field? If we didn't care for all of this why wouldn't we have quit and gone played pirates of the burning sea like you say we should, seeing as how complaining is futile and that the most obvious exit is to quit now that our time in the 0.0 spotlight is over? And why are you trying to put a rift between you and us? Last time i checked we are an alliance in the game of eve and part of the community, not some interloper from the black abyss of the internets. Actually the zinger is, I really don't care what you do. Play the game you want to play, try and complain loud and clear, whatever. There is no need however, to interrupt MY SERVICE THAT I PAY FOR to the forums because you have a vendetta against something. Your actions and THREADNAUGHT was uncalled for, disruptive and could have been avoided. Because you have a question the forums had to be shut down, which infringes on what I want to do with my playtime. If you think BoB infringes on what you do with your play time and thats why your panties are in a bunch, whats the difference between that now? Considering you infringed upon what thousands of people wanted to do but couldn't because you guys were to busy being *******s. __________________________________________
Cheval Blanc	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:55:00 - [2395] The response for RISE, FATAL, and BoB have been close to pathetic. Throwing ad hominem attacks at Goonswarm does not make this scandal go away. Instead of defending your reputation and arguing for what is right, you antagonize Goonswarm par usual. What do you take us, the EVE community, to be? We are no fools, and we will not pay a game run by scandals.
BMWM6	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:57:00 - [2396] Cliff notes please ? Between on going CCP Server problems, Lag problems, GM problems, Keep this up CCP looks like alot of you guys will be leaving Iceland and out of a job.
Lauren Evia	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:57:00 - [2397] Edited by: Lauren Evia on 27/05/2007 02:57:59 Quote: Actually the zinger is, I really don't care what you do. Play the game you want to play, try and complain loud and clear, whatever. There is no need however, to interrupt MY SERVICE THAT I PAY FOR to the forums because you have a vendetta against something. Your actions and THREADNAUGHT was uncalled for, disruptive and could have been avoided. Because you have a question the forums had to be shut down, which infringes on what I want to do with my playtime. If you think BoB infringes on what you do with your play time and thats why your panties are in a bunch, whats the difference between that now? Considering you infringed upon what thousands of people wanted to do but couldn't because you guys were to busy being *******s. aaaaaand.... the topic that they posted first, which was resonable, calm, and just asked a question, was deleted... why?
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 02:59:00 - [2398] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Having said all that, the only thing I see from this that MIGHT be true ("Might" as in "maybe, but NOT for sure") is that CCP employee allowed a player to accelarate a petition when contacted using an out of game chat. I don't suppose you'd have a copy of that petition to hand would you?
BlueOrca Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:00:00 - [2399] Originally by: Cheval Blanc The response for RISE, FATAL, and BoB have been close to pathetic. Throwing ad hominem attacks at Goonswarm does not make this scandal go away. Instead of defending your reputation and arguing for what is right, you antagonize Goonswarm par usual. What do you take us, the EVE community, to be? We are no fools, and we will not pay a game run by scandals. I know you are not a fool. And you do not represent the EVE community. So pls stop paying and go play some other game that has no scandals.
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:00:00 - [2400] Yeah, I think Its time to cancel my account..... Is it fair a BOB member can get a petition answered immediatly by msn and I have to wait two weeks?..... its kinda sad that ccp is meta gaming their own creation!
jely	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:01:00 - [2401] Originally by: Flaming Lemming Originally by: jely I cant wait to see the thread the stems from the CCP response to the investigation, Question, WHY HAVE POSTS BEEN REMOVED??? some i read yesterday are not here today Posts that linked to digg, slashdot, Kugu, etc..any third party site that was tallking about this issue...gone, at least they were dropping within minutes last night. the link was a post on the eve forums and the other links or atleast the link i posted has the Goonfleet letter aswell as screenys of a BOB member admiting of BOB/DEVS friendships and also includes IRC snipits this is what started it all isn't it? so this should not be removed because censorship is BAD BAD BAD
Morgain dVher Minmatar The Rat Pack	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:01:00 - [2402] Edited by: Morgain dVher on 27/05/2007 03:00:54 Originally by: Sergeant Spot lol, 90+ pages Still smells like a witch hunt. But at least I know the Goon debate technique. Bombard with posts, scream "PROOF!!", and if anyone debates and if even just for sake of argument accepts part of what you say, start screaming "FULL confession" Keep the waters so muddy and so loud that no one can be sure where the argument is going or has been, and SCREAM that any confusion on the part of those trying to dig through it is further PROOF. Having said all that, the only thing I see from this that MIGHT be true ("Might" as in "maybe, but NOT for sure") is that CCP employee allowed a player to accelarate a petition when contacted using an out of game chat. Because it is goons screaming, I have my doubts, but if true, its definately something that should not have happened. "If" it did happen, I'm sure there will be some additional rules laid down at CCP. But feel free to use it as an excuse to say "We cant win ONLY because the game company is against us!!! We quit!!!" and please send me your stuff if you do. Oh, and having the game company against you might just end up being a self fulfilling prophecy. From what I hear, you've trashed games before. Combine that with your treatment of CCP and you just might manage to generate real hostility. They are human too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie Keep it up, it might work. we do not, and never have tolarated to even a slight degree, any cheating within EVE. We are much too fully aware of the possible consequences of allowing any cheating to go on among the GM's.
antientity	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:01:00 - [2403] I hope to touch some new logical issues here. I really can't believe this many people think BOB would even want help from CCP. Do we really think they would have fun playing if everything was manipulated for their benefit. And the amount of cheating to make them win would have to be daily for months and years now. And i don't think that could do as much as having 1,000+ 30mill sp players. Just like how goons like the propaganda war BOB likes sitting back and letting the goons make them selfs look dumb. It is now safe to say that forum propaganda is a game mechanic same as a fleet warfare. Running an alliance is all teamwork, logistics, and people period and that is not something ccp can cheat into the game. Just logically speaking any feasible cheating cant replace teamwork. You would have to devise a plan to help last gain an unfair advantage. So say if the dev's gave ascn 200 billion before the war could they of lasted without teamwork. To all those who cancel their accounts i would like to have some of whatever you are smoking. Or just keep replying with your 7 alts saying you are canceling to further your agenda. To really think most dev's would do favors for an online buddy at the risk of their job they love and the game world they highly respect is a bit crazy. To the goons who seek a level playing ground while standing on it, it is slowly washing away with less and less respect from the community. I once considered joining the battle against bob and now i consider joining them with my dread accounts :P We just have to remember how player driven eve really is and get past the delusion that there is not that much that can be manipulated. I believe this propaganda here can go further then any single dev at changing eve. So mission accomplished as bush says.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:02:00 - [2404] Originally by: Cheval Blanc The response for RISE, FATAL, and BoB have been close to pathetic. Throwing ad hominem attacks at Goonswarm does not make this scandal go away. Instead of defending your reputation and arguing for what is right, you antagonize Goonswarm par usual. What do you take us, the EVE community, to be? We are no fools, and we will not pay a game run by scandals. Whats the scandal again? The sharkbait thing might be cause for some concern, but I doubt it considering how visable it was. The fact that an ISD member got fired for being rude to the customers... Thats in their agreement when they become ISD, so thats no scandal. The fact that BoB may have accelerated a petition by alerting someone at CCP that a petition exists is really the only thing left, and on its own its not really that gamebreaking is it? I mean its not slanting sides anyhow, in any direction because the petition was going to be answered by someone at some point right? Granted if thats the case, it does cause a small issue in regards to someone being able to seperate work from personal, but its really not worth of the "scandal" title. __________________________________________
Akelorian Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:02:00 - [2405] Originally by: CCP Arkanon Hi again. While I fully understand that people want information and answers to their questions, please consider that there is still considerable work to be done in compiling and investigating the various allegations posted in this thread and elsewhere. Updates will be posted as we go on, I simply can not guarantee exactly when we'll have this matter sewn up and ready as a coherent report. I will report in as often as I can, provided there are confirmed news to share with you. There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out. I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. Actually that is a blatent lie, my previous posts about issues have been edited or removed by the forum police based on things that ccp had attempted to cover up. like I said earlier I absolutely love how I got a warning for saying what I did, when I did. I don't expect anything to be done about this since what was done last time was nothing at all. I guess being friends with the accused is a benefit, Cover ups are all part of the business world, and I doubt this will change. For a game where there is what? 30k+ people playing a day, how many people are subscribed and pay 15 a month? Lets look at the figures based on a daily ratio of players. (roughly 30k based on times ect.) 30,000 x 15.00 = 450,000 / month thats 5.4 million a year And the devs want to ruin a game that is pulling in that ammount of money for a few buddies in the BoB alliance? Its a shame that the people involved in the t2 scandal are still playing and have benefitted from this. I really want to see the excuses and lies from ccp this time. It will be interesting to say the least. (waits for the evil ccp mods to slap me with another e-mail)
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:02:00 - [2406] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Stahlregen So the zinger you've been saving was the same thing that alts have been posting on quite literally every second page in this thread so far "If you don't like it, Quit"? If we didn't care for this community and we didn't care for this game why are we going through so much effort to try and shape it into how we believe it should be: A fair and level playing field? If we didn't care for all of this why wouldn't we have quit and gone played pirates of the burning sea like you say we should, seeing as how complaining is futile and that the most obvious exit is to quit now that our time in the 0.0 spotlight is over? And why are you trying to put a rift between you and us? Last time i checked we are an alliance in the game of eve and part of the community, not some interloper from the black abyss of the internets. Actually the zinger is, I really don't care what you do. Play the game you want to play, try and complain loud and clear, whatever. There is no need however, to interrupt MY SERVICE THAT I PAY FOR to the forums because you have a vendetta against something. Your actions and THREADNAUGHT was uncalled for, disruptive and could have been avoided. Because you have a question the forums had to be shut down, which infringes on what I want to do with my playtime. If you think BoB infringes on what you do with your play time and thats why your panties are in a bunch, whats the difference between that now? Considering you infringed upon what thousands of people wanted to do but couldn't because you guys were to busy being *****s. Quote: allegations of developer misconduct reported by CCP Arkanon \| 2007.05.26 21:35:26 \| NEW Dear players. Forgive us for being brief, but there has not been much time to prepare this statement. Our forums have now been taken down due to the load generated by player response to allegations of developer misconduct.** What is your point?
BlueOrca Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:02:00 - [2407] Originally by: Fluffernator Yeah, I think Its time to cancel my account..... Is it fair a BOB member can get a petition answered immediatly by msn and I have to wait two weeks?..... its kinda sad that ccp is meta gaming their own creation! Another one sees the light! Come on people, I know that you can do it! Just cancel your petition and you are free.
Cheval Blanc	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:03:00 - [2408] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Cheval Blanc The response for RISE, FATAL, and BoB have been close to pathetic. Throwing ad hominem attacks at Goonswarm does not make this scandal go away. Instead of defending your reputation and arguing for what is right, you antagonize Goonswarm par usual. What do you take us, the EVE community, to be? We are no fools, and we will not pay a game run by scandals. Whats the scandal again? The sharkbait thing might be cause for some concern, but I doubt it considering how visable it was. The fact that an ISD member got fired for being rude to the customers... Thats in their agreement when they become ISD, so thats no scandal. The fact that BoB may have accelerated a petition by alerting someone at CCP that a petition exists is really the only thing left, and on its own its not really that gamebreaking is it? I mean its not slanting sides anyhow, in any direction because the petition was going to be answered by someone at some point right? Granted if thats the case, it does cause a small issue in regards to someone being able to seperate work from personal, but its really not worth of the "scandal" title. With geniouses like yourself, why do we even need to bother waiting for CCP response?
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:03:00 - [2409] Originally by: BMWM6 Cliff notes please ? Some people might have done some inappropriate stuff. People associated with those people flatly deny this. People that don't like those people are convinced it happens. I'd give you a link to the evidence so you can decide for yourself, but it sounds as if thats not allowed despite promises from the people investigating the other people who also might be involved as those people saying that they want everything as open and honest without censorship as possible. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Cheval Blanc	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:09:00 - [2410] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Cheval Blanc The response for RISE, FATAL, and BoB have been close to pathetic. Throwing ad hominem attacks at Goonswarm does not make this scandal go away. Instead of defending your reputation and arguing for what is right, you antagonize Goonswarm par usual. What do you take us, the EVE community, to be? We are no fools, and we will not pay a game run by scandals. It is pointless to debate goons. I'll drop my comments in as I feel like, but dont expect it a debate. ESPECIALLY not on goon terms. If you dont like that, then please quit and send me your stuff. We win by killing you in game. The SA community exists as screaming howling accusing on line lynch mob. We really have no reason to fight your fight. If this angers you please come in game and kill us. By all means, GTFO of the thread. You won't debate on goon terms, yet you have played in a game rigged in your favour for four years and you whine about people whining.
Adam C 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:11:00 - [2411] hehe... drama llama... on a serious note: 92 pages woot ~3000 replies and 20k reads. prolly 5k of folk just hitting refresh 15k times. I have faith in you CCP. But i really think u guys should ban msn and other things that you cant administer.
Cheval Blanc	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:13:00 - [2412] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Cheval Blanc Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Cheval Blanc The response for RISE, FATAL, and BoB have been close to pathetic. Throwing ad hominem attacks at Goonswarm does not make this scandal go away. Instead of defending your reputation and arguing for what is right, you antagonize Goonswarm par usual. What do you take us, the EVE community, to be? We are no fools, and we will not pay a game run by scandals. Whats the scandal again? The sharkbait thing might be cause for some concern, but I doubt it considering how visable it was. The fact that an ISD member got fired for being rude to the customers... Thats in their agreement when they become ISD, so thats no scandal. The fact that BoB may have accelerated a petition by alerting someone at CCP that a petition exists is really the only thing left, and on its own its not really that gamebreaking is it? I mean its not slanting sides anyhow, in any direction because the petition was going to be answered by someone at some point right? Granted if thats the case, it does cause a small issue in regards to someone being able to seperate work from personal, but its really not worth of the "scandal" title. With geniouses like yourself, why do we even need to bother waiting for CCP response? At least I can answer questions, or at least attempt to, rather then creating an alt, and trying to start flames without having any gas to back it up. If you are indeed not an alt, and are posting with some balls on your main let me introduce you to the forums. Hello, welcome to the eve forums, if your going to try and start talking **, please bring some backing and some arguments. It doesnt matter how flawed they are, one line "witty" responses are not as witty as you think ,and you end up looking like a moron to everyone. In which case your word is worth , and people will just ignore you. Thanks! Perhaps you should start posting on an alt as well. I'm tired of The Alliance's e-peen being engorged with blood from spinning things into anti-Goonfleet threads. Please gain some ***** common sense and get off your high horse.
Grader	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:13:00 - [2413] didnt aftermath fight bob at one time? wow u guys love to be beatebn down ? then serve them as meatshields on forums? another child runs to the guys house who has the cheatcode to play : /
alpheon Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:13:00 - [2414] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Vantras Post it everywhere as far as I am concerend. If the rumors/screenshots/msn chat/logs are ALL false then the truth will prevail. But unfortunately then damage will already have been done. That is exactly why it is the WRONG thing to do. ... snip for character limit ... Lifes ruined or ended because people thought that they knew best. The lynch mob mentality is not a sign of a civilised society, and it is something to be frowned upon. It is not cool, or clever, or helpful to think that just because you don't like the system you have the right to take the law in to your own hands. The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out. But that is not the goal here, is it? This isn't about justice and fairness, is it? It is about serving a broader agenda, and that is what is so frustrating. Even my kids have grown out of the "play my way or I'll take my ball back" mentality. This thread is an example of people stoming their feet because they aren't getting their own way. It is akin to blackmailing CCP. "Do what we say or we'll ruin your image, blackening your name throughout the entire internet." Cheating is wrong, but when revealed it should be dealt with in the correct manner. There really is no excuse for the "threadnaught" approach. If anything it only serves to polarise the community, rather than bringing them together in the interests of honesty and fair-play. The problem Avon, is that when it was presented in the right manner, it was ignored, deleted, and censored. Petitions were erased, and closed. CCP has a great history of trying to brush the dirty secrets under the covers, when the past repeats its self, the only way to be sure that the story gets out is to make sure EVERYONE sees it. The susprising number of ALT accounts posting here is because a lot of Goonswarm forum accounts were suspended. They're actions though made sure that this was brought to the wide attention of the community. This is NOT the first time CCP and BoB have been caught kissing behind the barn. Repeatedly we've been told that "things will be cleaned up" and "you should trust us to make the right decisions" and repeatedly we've been burned. The Threadnaught is not something I approve of personally, but when you've got to break the ice around a company that does a damn good job of keeping secrets like this, its probably the only way to get the word out. Again, as I've said each time CCP&BoB get caught in a fishy situation, I would be a lot more of a skeptic if it was the first time. But its not, and you can't deny it. CCP is a company. IF the paying customers leave, what course do they have but to fire the employees who are harming the profit margin. This is a business, based on rules and trust between the customers and the people who run it. Not a happy-joy-club where its a shame someone gets fired cause they wore green on a blue only day. I don't pay for two accounts so my chosen opponents in the game get to change the rules and call on their "friends" to make things easier for them. Its already been acknowledged that the DEV's and GM's have done wrong in the past, forgive the masses for not being surprised that its happened again. In fact, demand the truth, demand that the money you pay for your play time each month is FAIRLY spent, for the benefit of the whole community, not your own in-game success, fairly won, or not. It disgusts me to see soley the BoB members stand up and try to defend the supposed innocence of a company already known to allow this behavior in the past, when everyone else, even your listed allies in the game are saying how dissapointing it is for this type of news to have come out again. Remember this is a game, that we all play, not a playground for one bully and his sycophants to rule over.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:15:00 - [2415] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Stahlregen Quote: allegations of developer misconduct reported by CCP Arkanon \| 2007.05.26 21:35:26 \| NEW Dear players. Forgive us for being brief, but there has not been much time to prepare this statement. Our forums have now been taken down due to the load generated by player response to allegations of developer misconduct. What is your point? Im sure this had nothing to do with it eh? I think this has been rebutted in the previous page oh and the one before that and the one before that right up to where CCP deleted the original thread which brings us to the point we are at in this thread. Speaking of points, Again, What is yours?
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:16:00 - [2416] Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn on 27/05/2007 03:16:23 Originally by: Popsikle Im sure this had nothing to do with it eh? Give me a break, they posted on the forums. Oh noes! Shut them down! Can't let anyone find out what we have done! Another scandel is really going to hurt our pocketbook! Once again, the only people who care that this involved BoB is their enemies, in an attempt to make themselves look better because they are getting their asses handed to them in-game. The fact is, the only thing that matters here is that CCP has allowed this to happen through their policies. If anyone of you had a developer friend who would let you MSN them, you would. The problem is that CCP should not allow anyone at all in any alliance anywhere in game ever ever become "friends" with developers and if those relationships are exposed, and especially if they are being abused, the employee must be immediately terminated. I can't stress this enough, this is not a BoB or Goonswarm issue, and I can't believe so many people are clouding it as one. It is a CCP issue and they are to blame and the only ones who can held accountable. Players are expected to do whatever they can do get ahead, and I can not blame anyone who takes advantage of every opportunity they are given, but I can blame CCP for allowing those opportunities to occur.
alpheon Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:17:00 - [2417] Originally by: Sergeant Spot It is pointless to debate goons. I'll drop my comments in as I feel like, but dont expect it a debate. ESPECIALLY not on goon terms. If you dont like that, then please quit and send me your stuff. We win by killing you in game. The SA community exists as screaming howling accusing on line lynch mob. We really have no reason to fight your fight. If this angers you please come in game and kill us. We do, quite often in fact. BoB has suffered its worst losses in capital ships to RA/GS. The war is far from over, no matter what side you're on, but I know for sure that you can't claim you're winning it. As for a debate. Not all of goonswarm is populated by 14 year old forum *****s. Theres a large number of us who have college degrees and are up for a good discussion. So, we'll keep killing your ships, you keep forum whoring with the 14 year olds.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:17:00 - [2418] Edited by: Popsikle on 27/05/2007 03:16:00 Originally by: Grader didnt aftermath fight bob at one time? wow u guys love to be beatebn down ? then serve them as meatshields on forums? another child runs to the guys house who has the cheatcode to play : / LOL no, they didnt. If you do an eve-search for me, you would see ive been on the side against goonies long before I joined an alliance that was part of the BoB allies. In fact fighting goonies was one of the reasons it was easy to follow some IRL buddies of mine to SoD. __________________________________________
Wloire	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:17:00 - [2419] Originally by: Flaming Lemming Originally by: CCP Arkanon we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. Hahahahahahahahahahah gasp Hahahahahahahahahahahaha Locked threads, deleted posts, bans for posting links to out of forum info on the subject...absolutely right, that's neither censorship or an attempt to silence customers. Let's not even talk about forum bans I've been hearing about. Words say one thing, actions another....and actions speak louder than words. Mod or Banhammer approaching in 5...4...3...2... It would seem you have come out pretty well unscathed by any such moderations. The fact that THIS thread is up for us to discuss the allegations is more proof to me that CCP is trying to route this out than you lot are putting up to show how their corrupt and censoring us. Have you ever considered maybe the threadnaught that the Goon's put up was detrimental to the forums and should have been taking down anyways? Knowing them to be the whiniest bunch in game IÆm sure it was a good thing their threads were locked. Personally I have yet to see any proof whatsoever of these allegations, minus idiotic BoB diplomats admitting to having connection to some DEV's and trying to justify these connections. There is no proof whatsoever of the former ISD employee's tale being completely factual. There is no proof whatsoever that Sharkbait had not received a petition before hand whether it be about unlockable BPO's or a glitchy POS. There is no proof that petitions were ignored afterwards. Every allegation is based on word of mouth. And then of course there are those of you who believe because of the T20 event that this must be true as well. There is no reason that after being caught by the player base once this company would allow themselves to be caught cheating again. "The right thing to do would be to fire all the GM's involved and make a public statement about this!" I donÆt know about the laws elsewhereÆs, but IÆm almost entirely sure that here in North America if you were to fire an employee for "aiding an in game entity through the creation of high end imaginary blueprints that have no value in real life" or " having direct connections to a client through an instant messaging service and possibly being on friendly relations with them " would land you in a lawsuit for improper discharge. That would be a lawsuit CCP would most likely lose. The Dev's do not crash the node to save BoB capitals, they donÆt put other alliance's POS's offline, they donÆt use their powers to scout out useless POS's that belong to whiny corps. They didnÆt give BoB their territory and they didnÆt help BoB become the superpower they are today, just like they didnÆt help the goon's become the super power they are. And just because they didnÆt address the two other issues presented doesent mean anything. Their either A) Investigating still just as they said, or B) Place no weight in the two other allegations as they have no more proof then word of mouth. Remember folks your leaving the game you apparently love because of unproven actions which may or may not have happened as described.
Caztra Tor	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:19:00 - [2420] Edited by: Caztra Tor on 27/05/2007 03:20:29 Here is an interesting analysis as to what is to be done to prevent such things from happening as are referred to in this thread and elsewhere: http://www.playnoevil.com/serendipity/index.php?/archives/1122-Absolute-Power-Corrupts-Absolutely-Considering-Countermeasures-for-CCP-Games-Eve-Online.html Now, I also liked the article in the Escapist. It provides a ton of apparently well researched information. But; really, unless the "Owners" of eve want to kill the Cash Cow, eve itself, then doesn't bob have to go? I mean, one way or another that Gig has to go, right? If given no other alternative doesn't the balance of the Eve community, that hasn't been cheating, have a moral obligation to stamp out bob? If we want that friendship and complicity that is alleged to exist to be no more, shouldn't we reduce it to smoking rubble? After all, no one would stop us, would they? Now, I'd like to add one more thing. The basic of premise of Eve is that we get to express ourselves through firepower. Isn't the logical thing to do is go shoot bob this Holiday Season. Good Hunting!
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:19:00 - [2421] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Stahlregen So the zinger you've been saving was the same thing that alts have been posting on quite literally every second page in this thread so far "If you don't like it, Quit"? If we didn't care for this community and we didn't care for this game why are we going through so much effort to try and shape it into how we believe it should be: A fair and level playing field? If we didn't care for all of this why wouldn't we have quit and gone played pirates of the burning sea like you say we should, seeing as how complaining is futile and that the most obvious exit is to quit now that our time in the 0.0 spotlight is over? And why are you trying to put a rift between you and us? Last time i checked we are an alliance in the game of eve and part of the community, not some interloper from the black abyss of the internets. Actually the zinger is, I really don't care what you do. Play the game you want to play, try and complain loud and clear, whatever. There is no need however, to interrupt MY SERVICE THAT I PAY FOR to the forums because you have a vendetta against something. Your actions and THREADNAUGHT was uncalled for, disruptive and could have been avoided. Because you have a question the forums had to be shut down, which infringes on what I want to do with my playtime. If you think BoB infringes on what you do with your play time and thats why your panties are in a bunch, whats the difference between that now? Considering you infringed upon what thousands of people wanted to do but couldn't because you guys were to busy being *****s. Fair enough... a denial of posting abilities for all is bad. The goons responsible should be given temp bans for that, no question. However, it's much like civil disobedience. You stand up for what you think is wrong in your society, and you accept a nominal punishment so that others have the issue at hand highlighted for them. I came to the forums after a few days off from the usual Eve empty-drama issues to find that there was an issue worth of my time. Bravo for their time spent. However, if this issue ends up being shown to have merit, I allege you will not think their actions had no merit; insofar as you pay for access to the game, the forum access is a periphral benefit, one that is open to all interested... not just those who pay for the game. Whereas, the current 'scandal' involves much more than someone who is 'only' trying to access the forums. Indeed, if true, the incestuous relationship between high-level players and the Devs matters much more (to me and hopefully to you) than a mere inability to read/post in the forums for a day. Originally by:** Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
TinyPirate	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:21:00 - [2422] Just had a funny thought. The evidence for misconduct seems greater than the evidence for WMDs in Iraq (back in 2003) bahaha :)
Cheval Blanc	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:21:00 - [2423] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Popsikle Im sure this had nothing to do with it eh? Give me a break, they posted on the forums. Oh noes! Shut them down! Can't let anyone find out what we have done! Another scandel is really going to hurt our pocketbook! Once again, the only people who care that this involved BoB is their enemies, in an attempt to make themselves look better because they are getting their asses handed to them in-game. The fact is, the only thing that matters here is that CCP has allowed this to happen through their policies. If anyone of you had a developer friend who would let you MSN them, you would. The problem is that CCP should not allow anyone at all in any alliance anywhere in game ever ever become "friends" with developers and if those relationships are exposed, and especially if they are being abused, the employee must be immediately terminated. Unfortunately many in CCP & BoB are buddy-buddies that go out for drinks and what not. Metagaming at its finest? CCP has gotten itself in this mess, from hiring staff from its player pool, amongst friends and family. You can tell me "proof or stfu", but it's fairly evident that many in BoB are the first to know of positions open at CCP. Like the post by an ex-Blizzard employee, there are reasons why such in-game mechanisms are put in place. The fact is that people are people, and a bunch of nerds addicted to an internet spaceship game will have rage and eventually exploit their power. They cannot be responsible for the respect and power of being a GM. With other games like WoW there is hell to pay if you even try to abuse your responsibilities; with EVE, you are only in trouble if you get caught. If t20 did not get caught, BoB would still be playing as if nothing has happened. The arguments they make today and yesterday are the same they made months ago.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:21:00 - [2424] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn on 27/05/2007 03:16:23 Originally by: Popsikle Im sure this had nothing to do with it eh? Give me a break, they posted on the forums. Oh noes! Shut them down! Can't let anyone find out what we have done! Another scandel is really going to hurt our pocketbook! Once again, the only people who care that this involved BoB is their enemies, in an attempt to make themselves look better because they are getting their asses handed to them in-game. The fact is, the only thing that matters here is that CCP has allowed this to happen through their policies. If anyone of you had a developer friend who would let you MSN them, you would. The problem is that CCP should not allow anyone at all in any alliance anywhere in game ever ever become "friends" with developers and if those relationships are exposed, and especially if they are being abused, the employee must be immediately terminated. I can't stress this enough, this is not a BoB or Goonswarm issue, and I can't believe so many people are clouding it as one. It is a CCP issue and they are to blame and the only ones who can held accountable. Players are expected to do whatever they can do get ahead, and I can not blame anyone who takes advantage of every opportunity they are given, but I can blame CCP for allowing those opportunities to occur. Do you have any idea why I linked that? I linked that because I personally was ***ing that Goonswarms antics shut down yet another forum. A forum that I pay monthly to post on, a forum that I expect to be shutdown only when it has to be, and not because of some selfish players. It sounds awfully alot like goonswarms reasoning to THREADNAUGHT doesn't it? So on one hand its ok for GOONIES to with something that I pay for monthly (there is proof the forums were shut down), but its not alright for someone to maybe (there is no proof that the petition was not sent via normal means) ** with something they pay for. Thanks my point. __________________________________________
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:22:00 - [2425] Originally by: Popsikle Edited by: Popsikle on 27/05/2007 03:16:00 Originally by: Grader didnt aftermath fight bob at one time? wow u guys love to be beatebn down ? then serve them as meatshields on forums? another child runs to the guys house who has the cheatcode to play : / LOL no, they didnt. If you do an eve-search for me, you would see ive been on the side against goonies long before I joined an alliance that was part of the BoB allies. In fact fighting goonies was one of the reasons it was easy to follow some IRL buddies of mine to SoD. Do you really think there was any doubt you were a Bob propoganda tool? I doubt you needed to confirm it to anyone. You are just bleating the same weak sauce excuses over and over.
Bi Tor	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:22:00 - [2426] Originally by: Grader ccp plz pay your;e bills and make a eve division made in america where u have to follow the law... start a new eve with no involvement. plz give bob , the ccps devs that cant work but can play eve 24 hrs to the chinese,, goodbye,, im looking at my eve box right now, 4 yrs old. been on sice beta. i know no devs,says open ended player driven enviroment,, there is so much room for the first mmo company to have a class action lawsuit agaisnt it im very surprised u havnt started recieving phonecalls at thi momment to prepare your;e legal team. and im sure ever person you have helped or some dev has helped in this game will be quick to sell all of you out for profit. fix my game. id prefer us based company nothing besides the actual product seems to be professional.. total mismanagement of a great dream,, and as other said. conan is coming,, so is darkfall . gluck competing Grader, I'm afraid to take out my box. I can understand the need for the storyline to be guided but if it states anywhere on that box that it is a Player Driven Environment or Player Determined Story Line then CCP is Instantly in violation of the Truth in Advertising Laws in the USA. I refuse to go find my box. Bite Me! Bi`Tor
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:23:00 - [2427] Originally by: Wloire Originally by: Flaming Lemming Originally by: CCP Arkanon we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. Your comments are read and considered, as always. Hahahahahahahahahahah gasp Hahahahahahahahahahahaha Locked threads, deleted posts, bans for posting links to out of forum info on the subject...absolutely right, that's neither censorship or an attempt to silence customers. Let's not even talk about forum bans I've been hearing about. Words say one thing, actions another....and actions speak louder than words. Mod or Banhammer approaching in 5...4...3...2... It would seem you have come out pretty well unscathed by any such moderations. The fact that THIS thread is up for us to discuss the allegations is more proof to me that CCP is trying to route this out than you lot are putting up to show how their corrupt and censoring us. Have you ever considered maybe the threadnaught that the Goon's put up was detrimental to the forums and should have been taking down anyways? Knowing them to be the whiniest bunch in game IÆm sure it was a good thing their threads were locked. Personally I have yet to see any proof whatsoever of these allegations, minus idiotic BoB diplomats admitting to having connection to some DEV's and trying to justify these connections. There is no proof whatsoever of the former ISD employee's tale being completely factual. There is no proof whatsoever that Sharkbait had not received a petition before hand whether it be about unlockable BPO's or a glitchy POS. There is no proof that petitions were ignored afterwards. Every allegation is based on word of mouth. And then of course there are those of you who believe because of the T20 event that this must be true as well. There is no reason that after being caught by the player base once this company would allow themselves to be caught cheating again. "The right thing to do would be to fire all the GM's involved and make a public statement about this!" I donÆt know about the laws elsewhereÆs, but IÆm almost entirely sure that here in North America if you were to fire an employee for "aiding an in game entity through the creation of high end imaginary blueprints that have no value in real life" or " having direct connections to a client through an instant messaging service and possibly being on friendly relations with them " would land you in a lawsuit for improper discharge. That would be a lawsuit CCP would most likely lose. The Dev's do not crash the node to save BoB capitals, they donÆt put other alliance's POS's offline, they donÆt use their powers to scout out useless POS's that belong to whiny corps. They didnÆt give BoB their territory and they didnÆt help BoB become the superpower they are today, just like they didnÆt help the goon's become the super power they are. And just because they didnÆt address the two other issues presented doesent mean anything. Their either A) Investigating still just as they said, or B) Place no weight in the two other allegations as they have no more proof then word of mouth. Remember folks your leaving the game you apparently love because of unproven actions which may or may not have happened as described. All I know is that I could see the posts disappearing quickly last night, in this thread that linked to OOG sources. check Eve-search, you'll find lots of stuff that used to be in this thread that isn't anymore. I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either. there's no such thing as bad press
Kingtemplar	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:24:00 - [2428] I posted this on general but afraid for some reason it will be censored even so it doesn't really talk about the drama directly. Solution Found! Create a totally NEW server. A server where NO CCP employee or GMs or even friends of CCP can play. One this solves the problem of abuse allegations and MOST important of all you can get a new influx of players wanting to stake a claim in this new universe. The people who already have long term characters in the old universe will stay (you will lose some players going to new universe but as new players come some will want to go to the older universe and fill in the ranks) . Anyway thatÆs my idea and I am sticking with it. IT would help both players and CCP!
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:24:00 - [2429] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn on 27/05/2007 03:16:23 Originally by: Popsikle Im sure this had nothing to do with it eh? Give me a break, they posted on the forums. Oh noes! Shut them down! Can't let anyone find out what we have done! Another scandel is really going to hurt our pocketbook! Once again, the only people who care that this involved BoB is their enemies, in an attempt to make themselves look better because they are getting their asses handed to them in-game. The fact is, the only thing that matters here is that CCP has allowed this to happen through their policies. If anyone of you had a developer friend who would let you MSN them, you would. The problem is that CCP should not allow anyone at all in any alliance anywhere in game ever ever become "friends" with developers and if those relationships are exposed, and especially if they are being abused, the employee must be immediately terminated. I can't stress this enough, this is not a BoB or Goonswarm issue, and I can't believe so many people are clouding it as one. It is a CCP issue and they are to blame and the only ones who can held accountable. Players are expected to do whatever they can do get ahead, and I can not blame anyone who takes advantage of every opportunity they are given, but I can blame CCP for allowing those opportunities to occur. Do you have any idea why I linked that? I linked that because I personally was ***ing that Goonswarms antics shut down yet another forum. A forum that I pay monthly to post on, a forum that I expect to be shutdown only when it has to be, and not because of some selfish players. It sounds awfully alot like goonswarms reasoning to THREADNAUGHT doesn't it? So on one hand its ok for GOONIES to with something that I pay for monthly (there is proof the forums were shut down), but its not alright for someone to maybe (there is no proof that the petition was not sent via normal means) ** with something they pay for. Thanks my point. There is plenty of proof. The t20 incdent just happens to be the one part you can't just deny away. Oh course you and your ilk said that there was no proof during the t20 thing as well.
Yawgmoth Amarr Solar Storm	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:32:00 - [2430] Originally by: Wloire snip Personally I have yet to see any proof whatsoever of these allegations, minus idiotic BoB diplomats admitting to having connection to some DEV's and trying to justify these connections. There is no proof whatsoever of the former ISD employee's tale being completely factual. There is no proof whatsoever that Sharkbait had not received a petition before hand whether it be about unlockable BPO's or a glitchy POS. There is no proof that petitions were ignored afterwards. Every allegation is based on word of mouth. And then of course there are those of you who believe because of the T20 event that this must be true as well. There is no reason that after being caught by the player base once this company would allow themselves to be caught cheating again. "The right thing to do would be to fire all the GM's involved and make a public statement about this!" I donÆt know about the laws elsewhereÆs, but IÆm almost entirely sure that here in North America if you were to fire an employee for "aiding an in game entity through the creation of high end imaginary blueprints that have no value in real life" or " having direct connections to a client through an instant messaging service and possibly being on friendly relations with them " would land you in a lawsuit for improper discharge. That would be a lawsuit CCP would most likely lose. Well, it depends on what sort of employment agreement the employee signed. If they were fully aware that giving imaginary blueprints for unreal objects was grounds for firing, they could easily be let go. While I agree we don't have any rock-solid proof that Sharkbait was doing something he shouldn't. the CEO of the affected corp has come forward to say they did not have a petition for any POS, plus when he petitioned to find out why Sharkbait did what he did, his petition was deleted. Why would the CEO of ds1 want to fabricate a story like that? What possible benefit could that give them? I agree, this thread is definitely a step in the right direction. I do want to see what CCP finds for all three issues. I am willing to let their Internal Auditing department do their job. I do like this game, and stuff like this makes me sad. Whoever is right or wrong, we all lose. /plus if you leave can I have your stuff? I will put it to good use. "So how did you survive this long in 0.0 with no MWD?" 'I didn't. I died. Alot'
BlueOrca Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:32:00 - [2431] Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Mass canceling of EVE accounts tomorrow, whos with me? Maybe CCP will take notice. I'm not with you, but I can show you how to do that.
Farham AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:34:00 - [2432] Anastasia Heron you expressed the exact sentiment most of the player base posting in this thread are trying to get across. 10/10 Intrepid Crossing Diplomat and All Around Major Idiot
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:34:00 - [2433] Originally by: Sigmorhair I am fairly certain what you will be doing tonight is repeating the same tired excuses on behalf of the cheaters. Proove me wrong. So If someone agrees with someone, they become a meat shield for them? People aren't allowed to have an opinion on something if someone already has that opinion? And how does my opinion matching some of BoB's opinion on this mean It always will? __________________________________________
antientity	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:34:00 - [2434] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 03:05:37 Originally by: antientity I really can't believe this many people think BOB would even want help from CCP. It might have something to do with the fact that they've been proven to have done so in the past. We still don't know the details. Person who knew that it was a dev may of not been the person who got the blueprints, could of not been leadership. We seem to think a few top people in a 2000 person alliance knows every last thing that goes on. I get lost between accusations and truth. As any person they could also assume that the dev won them in the lottery legitimately. In any event i think its a drop in the bucket vs their full t2 production. How about i transfer 20 billion to bob leadership right to give them some help. They would probably send it back and say "keep your change our massive pos mining, t2 production, renters and members mining endlessly are no match for your 20 bill. Besides our recent mining op/outpost fulfilled the minerals for the next 3 titans" :P. I am just saying any help they could receive is minimal vs player driven eve. They could probably do a fund raiser and get 100+ billion in a few minutes. With all their members rating safely in protected space for the last 2 years. So getting perspective helps. Its also the weekend so i didn't expect a reply. They have to carefully respond since some have already made up their mind based on possibly false testimony and info.
Promethian child Amarr United Dutch Trading	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:37:00 - [2435] We just cancelled 15 accounts no renewal untill we get an decent answer CCP . -------------------- One Empire, One Emperor, One Faith, One Amarr... A Whole Universe Under One rule. Keter of the Ordo Quaesitoris.
benzss Templar Securities and Holdings Lupus Caerulus	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:37:00 - [2436] ok i can't be arsed reading all this thread what exactly happened?
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:38:00 - [2437] Originally by: Promethian child We just cancelled 15 accounts no renewal untill we get an decent answer CCP . bye
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:38:00 - [2438] Originally by: antientity They have to carefully respond since some have already made up their mind based on possibly false testimony and info. People made up their mind a long time ago, and no matter what CCP posts about it people will still complain that its not enough, or that they are covering something up about it. go look at the Oktober Snow GM thread a few threads down for proof of that ;( __________________________________________
BlueOrca Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:39:00 - [2439] Originally by: Promethian child We just cancelled 15 accounts no renewal untill we get an decent answer CCP . Only 15? I know you can do better then that! Cancel all your accounts!
Marovinchian Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:40:00 - [2440] Edited by: Marovinchian on 27/05/2007 03:41:35 Originally by: Fluffernator Yeah, I think Its time to cancel my account..... Is it fair a BOB member can get a petition answered immediatly by msn and I have to wait two weeks?..... its kinda sad that ccp is meta gaming their own creation! I think you are missing the flipside of this coin, Is it fair that goons have one of thier members in isd bumping bob dreadnaughts in a very hostile situation while being invincible? From what ive been able to decipher without my eyes bleeding...it seems everyone is up in arms about bob getting an issue with cheating and ccp employee's abusing thier power handled in a timely manner...i mean....sheesh You see the accusations whichever way you want to see them, but in the end this situation was caused by goons abusing the people THEY have working for THEM in the departments of ccp
Cheval Blanc	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:42:00 - [2441] Originally by: Marovinchian Originally by: Fluffernator Yeah, I think Its time to cancel my account..... Is it fair a BOB member can get a petition answered immediatly by msn and I have to wait two weeks?..... its kinda sad that ccp is meta gaming their own creation! I think you are missing the flipside of this coin, Is it fair that goons have one of thier members in isd bumping bob dreadnaughts in a very hostile situation while being invincible? You see the accusations whichever way you want to see them, but in the end this situation was caused by goons abusing the people THEY have working for THEM in the departments of ccp Nice spin, but ANY Goonfleet<->ISD connection is SUPERBLY overwhelmed by BoB having instant access to the top echelons of EVE and managing to get him kicked from a volunteer organization. And this is coming from the alliance that has perfected "POS bowling".
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:43:00 - [2442] Originally by: benzss ok i can't be arsed reading all this thread what exactly happened? Well the OP is about Sharkbait joining a goonswarm corp, giving himself director access and then leaving the corp. There was no communication regarding why Sharkbait did that, however there was an open petition about blueprints. It appears the CEO petitioned why sharkbait was in the corp, and it was immediately deleted. The lack of communication between the dev and the people he joined the corp is causing an uproar and people are drawing all sorts of conclusions. The thread however is about BoB being able to get a harrasment petition answered within a few minutes by means of talking to someone who knew a GM/ISD member or was a GM/ISD member via MSN. __________________________________________
Anastasia Heron Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:43:00 - [2443] Originally by: Farham Anastasia Heron you expressed the exact sentiment most of the player base posting in this thread are trying to get across. 10/10 Thanks. I, too, am worried about the current scandal(s), but I'm more worried about the culture that allowed them to come up in the first place.
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:43:00 - [2444] Originally by: benzss ok i can't be arsed reading all this thread what exactly happened? a bunch of sore losers who cant handle dealing with getting ritcheously pwn'd -in-the-face manufactured some fake crisis about bob. In the process they spammed the forums and many got permabanend finally.
DeTox MinRohim Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:44:00 - [2445] 93 pages and still no proof of anything (related of course), only allegations and lack of patience to let the concerned people do their job. Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Mass canceling of EVE accounts tomorrow, whos with me? Maybe CCP will take notice. The hamsters and I will thank you. ------ ~~Proud member of the !s~~ I take no responsability for your paranoia ! This sig space is Read-only ! omgalink
LymeM Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:44:00 - [2446] So CCP released the revelations 2.0 info simply to draw attention from this.. Kinda sad.
DeTox MinRohim Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:52:00 - [2447] Originally by: Cheval Blanc At least in the US, numbers get treated equally. And believe me, I thought I'd be the last person to be defending American capitalism. LOZL... please... let's not go into that. It'll get snipped anyway. ------ This sig space is Read-only ! omgalink
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:52:00 - [2448] Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: Cheval Blanc Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: LymeM So CCP released the revelations 2.0 info simply to draw attention from this.. Kinda sad. So you did all this on the forums only to draw attention from you losing the war? Kinda sad. So you cheated in so many ways to win the war? Kinda sad. except there is no proof of bob cheating to beat your face in. there is proof though you are getting rolled up though. see the difference? again... POS bowling? anyone? and I'm not that worried about cheating I don't care if they have or haven't been cheating it's the fact that They can get a ISD member fired and his PC account deleted or when the goons post ONE tread it gets deleted not locked mind you it was wiped off the face of the forums I don't like this one bit
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:52:00 - [2449] Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Cheval Blanc Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: LymeM So CCP released the revelations 2.0 info simply to draw attention from this.. Kinda sad. So you did all this on the forums only to draw attention from you losing the war? Kinda sad. So you cheated in so many ways to win the war? Kinda sad. LV lost the war, so if we cheated, we did something wrong. But if you thing that we cheated why don't you quit? haha, exactly!
D1ck Jones Old Detroit Crime Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:54:00 - [2450] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: Cheval Blanc Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: LymeM So CCP released the revelations 2.0 info simply to draw attention from this.. Kinda sad. So you did all this on the forums only to draw attention from you losing the war? Kinda sad. So you cheated in so many ways to win the war? Kinda sad. except there is no proof of bob cheating to beat your face in. there is proof though you are getting rolled up though. see the difference? again... POS bowling? anyone? so wait, only BOB does that?
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:54:00 - [2451] Originally by: Cheval Blanc At least in the US, numbers get treated equally. And believe me, I thought I'd be the last person to be defending American capitalism. Ive done a good job at ignoring your posts, but this is another pet peave of mine. We get treated equally here? http://www.affirmativeaction.org/ Linkage There a whole slew of pages on how white americans get the short end of the stick, so no, Americas not fair. __________________________________________
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:55:00 - [2452] Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: LymeM So CCP released the revelations 2.0 info simply to draw attention from this.. Kinda sad. your tinfoil hattery no no bounds. lolz it's been more than a week it was due anyways A dev even posted about writting the heat one far before any of this same with POS warfare. if your heavy on the GD forum and test server you'd know this statement is silly
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:55:00 - [2453] Originally by: Arric Rohr The thing is, this is not about BoB specifically, or the goons, or even the particular event(s) that started all this mania. It's about trust in a product. Everyone points the finger at BoB, but how do we know it stops there? Lately, I've been having my behind handed to me by Burn Eden. I was assuming that they are much better at PvP than me, but what if that isn't true at all? What if they have a developer helping them too? (Don't flame me, it's hypothetical.) Sure, they probably don't, but how do I really know??? I don't,and it's because something that has been shown to have happened once, might happen again. I have over a year invested, two accounts, and I really like the game. But if I can't trust the people who run it to treat me the same way they treat everyone else, then I don't think I can continue playing. Please, BoB and Goons, stop the arguing in this thread. It's not about you. AR QFT. For me, and I suspect a lot of other people, this is about how CCP badly, BADLY mishandled the situation. Now, just think of what may have happened had they kept the original thread open and posted the news response about routine GM work in a POS there? I'd feel safe betting a lot of money that none of this would have happened. There may have been some fallout when it was reported that DS1 didn't have a petition, and that would have led to some investigating of why he was there. But there would have been none of this drama and overreaction from the community. We don't know if the other items about the ISD guy and BoB-Dev connections would have come to light, and that may have caused their own problems, but they would be far more limited than this 94 page thread that's only about 24 hours old. So what really upsets me is that instead of making a simple statement, CCP tried to make a cover up of what is likely a non-issue as far of why the GM/dev was there. But they overreacted with panic and a total lack of logic and now the **'s really hit the fan. So CCP have mismanaged and bungled this whole episode, and they have no one to blame but themselves. Had they not tried to cover it up, there would have possibly been some concern why the GM was there when he wasn't asked, which could have been a simple mistake of choosing the wrong POS, but now most people will never believe that if it's the truth. And there may have been the issue of making such a mistake, as well as the possible issue of mistakenly deleting the petition asking why he was there, but again most won't believe these answers if they're true. But anyway, that's an awful lot of mistakes to be made in such a short time, and that's what really makes me mad. CCP is being incredibly stupid in the way they handle this, and the way they started it all. Basically we're left with staggering incompetence from one or more GMs (maybe trying to cover his/their asses for making a stupid mistake in the first place) or there really was misconduct. Either way, this has turned into an unstoppable cluster** that only hurts CCP, even if nothing untoward actually started it all off. And that just scares me, that such a great company with so much talent can be so mismanaged/inept at handling things. But lets just look at Vanguard and Sigil. It's apparently not that uncommon. I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:56:00 - [2454] Edited by: MotherMoon on 27/05/2007 03:57:48 Originally by: D1ck Jones Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: Cheval Blanc Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: LymeM So CCP released the revelations 2.0 info simply to draw attention from this.. Kinda sad. So you did all this on the forums only to draw attention from you losing the war? Kinda sad. So you cheated in so many ways to win the war? Kinda sad. except there is no proof of bob cheating to beat your face in. there is proof though you are getting rolled up though. see the difference? again... POS bowling? anyone? so wait, only BOB does that? sorry, this is very true :P I was pointing out the fact that he got mad that a goony might of been bumping as a ISD member without saying they love to do the same thing :P then again it's been said before and it's my views as well. I don't care about the goons vs. BoB this is picture as a whole. and BoB, your the best, so you get to be the scapegoat speaking of which... if you have cheated, I don't understand way, you'd win in the end like you keep saying.. so why even do it. that's why I don't believe in the cheating as far as being anle to msn devs and get people baned... well you yourself told me that and I think that's messed up. and if it's not true I hope BoB kicks you out of BoB for making them look bad
Marovinchian Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:56:00 - [2455] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Marovinchian Edited by: Marovinchian on 27/05/2007 03:41:35 Originally by: Fluffernator Yeah, I think Its time to cancel my account..... Is it fair a BOB member can get a petition answered immediatly by msn and I have to wait two weeks?..... its kinda sad that ccp is meta gaming their own creation! STOP digging your self in deeper! do these show what your whole corp feels? if they do tell them the stuff your posting see if your superoirs like it Bumping in a jove ship? wait... no? you can't bump by jumping! you dumb BOB member you poor thing speaking of bumping... pos bowling? I think you are missing the flipside of this coin, Is it fair that goons have one of thier members in isd bumping bob dreadnaughts in a very hostile situation while being invincible? From what ive been able to decipher without my eyes bleeding...it seems everyone is up in arms about bob getting an issue with cheating and ccp employee's abusing thier power handled in a timely manner...i mean....sheesh You see the accusations whichever way you want to see them, but in the end this situation was caused by goons abusing the people THEY have working for THEM in the departments of ccp is this supposed to be an actual post? i was there, im quite sure you weren't.....you toss out words like dumb, poor thing, and try to attack a perspective that doesn't support what YOU decide to believe. btw, jumping to may not cause bumping, but the several minutes the pilot spent being an ass in local while piling into our dreadnaughts sure did. your post is merely blind ignorance at it's best kiddo
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:57:00 - [2456] Edited by: Krasnij Okjabre on 27/05/2007 03:57:12 This is the best game most of us have ever seen or ever will see. After 'ELITE' and to a degree 'FREELANCER',this is where it's at. A open ended, free-roaming, interactive space shooter. Now most of you seem hell-bent on wanting to kill it. Freelancer (albeit a MS product) tried to take the mantle and failed. Elite rocked (those of us that ACTUALLY remember it), the original but technically limited, and others. Freelancer did it's best it gave a (albeit semi) open endedness to a linear format. ELITE was completely open ended, though linear due to the technical limitations at the time... but we all wanted summin like this. So,now we have EVE, a game that evidently was everything Elite and Freelancer (possibly also X and Freespace) should have been combined but couldn't have been... and what happens? You lot. 'You lot' encompassing all this that has taken place. 'You lot' encompassing T20 (I hate mentioning that as I'd forgiven that as a slip on CCP's part, You lot for fuelling this... what is becoming an.... ffs X-Files of a GAME (note GAME) get over yourselves and each other. Light is faster than sound... this is why some people appear bright until you speak to them...
An Anarchyyt	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:58:00 - [2457] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: An Anarchyyt Much of the employment in the US is at-will employment. Now, at-will employment is defined as: "any hiring is presumed to be "at will"; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals "for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all," and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work." (Mark A. Rothstein, Andria S. Knapp & Lance Liebman, Cases and Materials on Employment Law (New York: Foundation Press, 1987), 738.) Now of course there are exceptions, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will Basically what this means is that an employee can quit at any time, but on the other side, an employer can fire at any time (within the confines of the link above), so something that you could probably call "conduct unbecomming a developer" is certainly not protected. As an aside, thanks to MMOs we are starting to get "Virtual Property laws". The first case was in China, back in Dec '03, which you can read about right here: http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/fun.games/12/19/china.gamer.reut/index.html CCP is in Iceland. In Iceland people still get treated like people, and not like numbers, unlike here in the US. This is true, and for all I know things can be completely different, or not. And the EEA probably further complicates things. But I like my uncomplex life where I can become the next Rockefeller.
xxShadexx Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:58:00 - [2458] Interesting... I wonder how many more cases are like this...
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:59:00 - [2459] Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Cheval Blanc Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: LymeM So CCP released the revelations 2.0 info simply to draw attention from this.. Kinda sad. So you did all this on the forums only to draw attention from you losing the war? Kinda sad. So you cheated in so many ways to win the war? Kinda sad. LV lost the war, so if we cheated, we did something wrong. But if you thing that we cheated why don't you quit? You did at least a thousand things wrong. I saw many of them myself. Cheating is no guarantee of victory. You have to at least be reasonably competent to profit on the cheating. This BoB has been. Everyone is good at something. They are in cheating and doublethinking. It is quite a gift :)
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 03:59:00 - [2460] Originally by: F'nog Originally by: Arric Rohr The thing is, this is not about BoB specifically, or the goons, or even the particular event(s) that started all this mania. It's about trust in a product. Everyone points the finger at BoB, but how do we know it stops there? Lately, I've been having my behind handed to me by Burn Eden. I was assuming that they are much better at PvP than me, but what if that isn't true at all? What if they have a developer helping them too? (Don't flame me, it's hypothetical.) Sure, they probably don't, but how do I really know??? I don't,and it's because something that has been shown to have happened once, might happen again. I have over a year invested, two accounts, and I really like the game. But if I can't trust the people who run it to treat me the same way they treat everyone else, then I don't think I can continue playing. Please, BoB and Goons, stop the arguing in this thread. It's not about you. AR QFT. For me, and I suspect a lot of other people, this is about how CCP badly, BADLY mishandled the situation. Now, just think of what may have happened had they kept the original thread open and posted the news response about routine GM work in a POS there? I'd feel safe betting a lot of money that none of this would have happened. There may have been some fallout when it was reported that DS1 didn't have a petition, and that would have led to some investigating of why he was there. But there would have been none of this drama and overreaction from the community. We don't know if the other items about the ISD guy and BoB-Dev connections would have come to light, and that may have caused their own problems, but they would be far more limited than this 94 page thread that's only about 24 hours old. So what really upsets me is that instead of making a simple statement, CCP tried to make a cover up of what is likely a non-issue as far of why the GM/dev was there. But they overreacted with panic and a total lack of logic and now the **'s really hit the fan. So CCP have mismanaged and bungled this whole episode, and they have no one to blame but themselves. Had they not tried to cover it up, there would have possibly been some concern why the GM was there when he wasn't asked, which could have been a simple mistake of choosing the wrong POS, but now most people will never believe that if it's the truth. And there may have been the issue of making such a mistake, as well as the possible issue of mistakenly deleting the petition asking why he was there, but again most won't believe these answers if they're true. But anyway, that's an awful lot of mistakes to be made in such a short time, and that's what really makes me mad. CCP is being incredibly stupid in the way they handle this, and the way they started it all. Basically we're left with staggering incompetence from one or more GMs (maybe trying to cover his/their asses for making a stupid mistake in the first place) or there really was misconduct. Either way, this has turned into an unstoppable cluster** that only hurts CCP, even if nothing untoward actually started it all off. And that just scares me, that such a great company with so much talent can be so mismanaged/inept at handling things. But lets just look at Vanguard and Sigil. It's apparently not that uncommon. Communication on why sharkbait was in the corp, and communication to that ISD member abotu why he was fired probably would have prevent all this jibberish. I think thats what CCP needs to learn out of all this, and out of the t20 thing, communication needs to be better. __________________________________________
Evelgrivion Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:00:00 - [2461] On a completely different tangent, this thread has done wonders for CAOD This isn't the signature you're looking for.
CaffCeo	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:00:00 - [2462] Originally by: Krasnij Okjabre Edited by: Krasnij Okjabre on 27/05/2007 03:57:12 This is the best game most of us have ever seen or ever will see. After 'ELITE' and to a degree 'FREELANCER',this is where it's at. A open ended, free-roaming, interactive space shooter. Now most of you seem hell-bent on wanting to kill it. Freelancer (albeit a MS product) tried to take the mantle and failed. Elite rocked (those of us that ACTUALLY remember it), the original but technically limited, and others. Freelancer did it's best it gave a (albeit semi) open endedness to a linear format. ELITE was completely open ended, though linear due to the technical limitations at the time... but we all wanted summin like this. So,now we have EVE, a game that evidently was everything Elite and Freelancer (possibly also X and Freespace) should have been combined but couldn't have been... and what happens? You lot. 'You lot' encompassing all this that has taken place. 'You lot' encompassing T20 (I hate mentioning that as I'd forgiven that as a slip on CCP's part, You lot for fuelling this... what is becoming an.... ffs X-Files of a GAME (note GAME) get over yourselves and each other. <3 Elite.
Promethian child Amarr United Dutch Trading	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:01:00 - [2463] Originally by: xxShadexx Interesting... I wonder how many more cases are like this... More than you want to know about. -------------------- One Empire, One Emperor, One Faith, One Amarr... A Whole Universe Under One rule. Keter of the Ordo Quaesitoris.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:01:00 - [2464] Originally by: CaffCeo Originally by: Krasnij Okjabre Edited by: Krasnij Okjabre on 27/05/2007 03:57:12 This is the best game most of us have ever seen or ever will see. After 'ELITE' and to a degree 'FREELANCER',this is where it's at. A open ended, free-roaming, interactive space shooter. Now most of you seem hell-bent on wanting to kill it. Freelancer (albeit a MS product) tried to take the mantle and failed. Elite rocked (those of us that ACTUALLY remember it), the original but technically limited, and others. Freelancer did it's best it gave a (albeit semi) open endedness to a linear format. ELITE was completely open ended, though linear due to the technical limitations at the time... but we all wanted summin like this. So,now we have EVE, a game that evidently was everything Elite and Freelancer (possibly also X and Freespace) should have been combined but couldn't have been... and what happens? You lot. 'You lot' encompassing all this that has taken place. 'You lot' encompassing T20 (I hate mentioning that as I'd forgiven that as a slip on CCP's part, You lot for fuelling this... what is becoming an.... ffs X-Files of a GAME (note GAME) get over yourselves and each other. <3 Elite. <3 elite. <X3 stupid forums that cant remember what my default toon is. __________________________________________
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:02:00 - [2465] Originally by: Marovinchian Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Marovinchian Edited by: Marovinchian on 27/05/2007 03:41:35 Originally by: Fluffernator Yeah, I think Its time to cancel my account..... Is it fair a BOB member can get a petition answered immediatly by msn and I have to wait two weeks?..... its kinda sad that ccp is meta gaming their own creation! STOP digging your self in deeper! do these show what your whole corp feels? if they do tell them the stuff your posting see if your superoirs like it Bumping in a jove ship? wait... no? you can't bump by jumping! you dumb BOB member you poor thing speaking of bumping... pos bowling? I think you are missing the flipside of this coin, Is it fair that goons have one of thier members in isd bumping bob dreadnaughts in a very hostile situation while being invincible? From what ive been able to decipher without my eyes bleeding...it seems everyone is up in arms about bob getting an issue with cheating and ccp employee's abusing thier power handled in a timely manner...i mean....sheesh You see the accusations whichever way you want to see them, but in the end this situation was caused by goons abusing the people THEY have working for THEM in the departments of ccp is this supposed to be an actual post? i was there, im quite sure you weren't.....you toss out words like dumb, poor thing, and try to attack a perspective that doesn't support what YOU decide to believe. btw, jumping to may not cause bumping, but the several minutes the pilot spent being an ass in local while piling into our dreadnaughts sure did. your post is merely blind ignorance at it's best kiddo ok I'm willing to believe he was actully being an ass. then way do you POS bowl? I mena I guess it's hard not to if the option is there.. I don't know. I believe only what I'm told has happen and I know that you can msn devs as far as what he was doing I wish someone had fraped this whole thing. P.s. second half of that wasn't me posting
Benzo Diazepine	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:02:00 - [2466] Originally by: Iwone I would love to ask CCP ppl to tell us how many more times we need to "trust" them. You ppl are ruining your own game. /Signed
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:02:00 - [2467] just out of curiosity, what does sharkbait have to do with bob? Its not like they are a hard corp to get into.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:04:00 - [2468] Originally by: Tod Klemp just out of curiosity, what does sharkbait have to do with bob? Its not like they are a hard corp to get into. /me shrugs. T20 was in BoB so all the devs must be in bob, duh, rational thinking! __________________________________________
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:04:00 - [2469] Originally by: Marovinchian Edited by: Marovinchian on 27/05/2007 03:41:35 Originally by: Fluffernator Yeah, I think Its time to cancel my account..... Is it fair a BOB member can get a petition answered immediatly by msn and I have to wait two weeks?..... its kinda sad that ccp is meta gaming their own creation! I think you are missing the flipside of this coin, Is it fair that goons have one of thier members in isd bumping bob dreadnaughts in a very hostile situation while being invincible? From what ive been able to decipher without my eyes bleeding...it seems everyone is up in arms about bob getting an issue with cheating and ccp employee's abusing thier power handled in a timely manner...i mean....sheesh You see the accusations whichever way you want to see them, but in the end this situation was caused by goons abusing the people THEY have working for THEM in the departments of ccp 1) a goon member? from what I've read, he isn't. I could very well be wrong, but where are you getting your info from? 2)from what I can tell, he MAY have bumped a dread for a short time. Noob Q here, does that matter to a beseiging Dread who was probably in Siege mode? I don't know either way, so this is really a request for info. If one dread DID get bumped, how might that have changed the outcome of the siege? Admittedly, if ISD is intefering with normal gameplay, that's not good. However, did the interference change anything(if it happened at all)? Compare that with the alleged near-immediate firing of the ISD employee. That reeks of BoB/CCP collusion (if it's true). 3)from what I can tell, after having read the thread (I think) plus the ahem linked stuff, the issue is NOT "about bob getting an issue with cheating and ccp employee's abusing thier power handled in a timely manner." It's that BoB (in this case) was flipping out about stuff that they probably shouldn't have (understandable if you are in battle and have big stakes), but more about BoB using means of communication not available to the non-BoB characters to get a non-issue resolved using their Dev-access powers(in this example) and about CCP employees/volunteers essentially serving at the tolerance of BoB. Frankly, this is more serious, by far, than a flippant comment on your part followed by a 'sheesh' emote. It is certainly NOT merely an issue of "goons abusing the people THEY have working for THEM in the departments of ccp." That's about as diametrically opposed to the issues at hand I can think of, while still being in the same context. Maybe read before you post? Thanks. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Talon Olthta	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:04:00 - [2470] It seems as though a flame war has been sparked by this, and truly nothing really will come of it. Those who believe that Goonswarm is truthful and not trying to simply stir things up will continue to do so, and those who wish to believe that this business is nothing more than an attempt to be bothersome, will most likely continue to do so. Unfortunatly, I must say that there seems to be a great deal of evidence (circumstantial or no) pointing to some sort of misconduct here. What CCP should be doing is let us know that they really ARE doing something, rather than what became of the t20 incident, where it was simply waved off with the creation of a investigatory branch (one which should have exsisted in the first place, and one which may have not been doing such a good job, due to the events of late). Also an unfortunate problem is what kind of repurcussions can be implemented here? Can we take away the blueprints? Can we change history, history possible changed by these items? Can we get the ISD member his job back? Not really. What we can do, however, is get a sense that there is no longer an unbalanced or corrupt game, which is something I'm not so sure of right now. Simply my 2 isk, take from it what you will
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:05:00 - [2471] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Cheval Blanc Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: LymeM So CCP released the revelations 2.0 info simply to draw attention from this.. Kinda sad. So you did all this on the forums only to draw attention from you losing the war? Kinda sad. So you cheated in so many ways to win the war? Kinda sad. LV lost the war, so if we cheated, we did something wrong. But if you thing that we cheated why don't you quit? You did at least a thousand things wrong. I saw many of them myself. Cheating is no guarantee of victory. You have to at least be reasonably competent to profit on the cheating. This BoB has been. Everyone is good at something. They are in cheating and doublethinking. It is quite a gift :) um http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXr9Z5YHr88 you allready told us why LV is gone you let them die it was a good tatic it ture EVE-evil captalstic glory and if BoB didn't want this out you better get them to take it down I for one say it was a great tactic but it countertics a lot sry about spellign it's not important anyways
Xalorn Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:06:00 - [2472] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn The fact is, the only thing that matters here is that CCP has allowed this to happen through their policies. If anyone of you had a developer friend who would let you MSN them, you would. The problem is that CCP should not allow anyone at all in any alliance anywhere in game ever ever become "friends" with developers and if those relationships are exposed, and especially if they are being abused, the employee must be immediately terminated. The above was written by an ingame BoB allied corporation & he echos the voice of some goonfleet players in this thread. Stop making this an 'goon versus bob' issue. It is MUCH bigger than that. Don't you people get it? We are talking about the end of eve as we know it unless this unethical 'player to dev' contact is severed. And no, im not being melodramatic, as much as some here would like to believe that only goons care about this, you are wrong. This is all over the internet & non aligned corporations (mine included) are seriously considering leaving the game based upon how CCP handles this situation. Have you seen the server numbers since this broke? Maybe this 'special certain players to dev' connection wasn't a problem when the game was tiny with a tiny community, but the game has gotten big. A lot of the players are from other MMO communities where if a player and a dev had a conversation about the game in an unofficial manner, the dev would get fired & the player would be banned. CCP, you are in the MMO big leagues now, you have to drop the MMO little league behavior.
Acron Ishtal Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:13:00 - [2473] I've cancelled all 4 of my accounts. I know such statements don't mean much to most, people run around saying stuff like that whenever the nerfbat swings on their favorite race/ship/mod/tactic... but I've always rolled with the punches as far as that stuff goes. I play this game for fun, for the challenge, and for the excitement. Somehow, playing a rigged game detracts from it. Nothing I achieve or fail really matters, as it is all externally influenced somehow, even if I can't see it. If the rules aren't the real rules, the outcomes can't be real outcomes. Why bother playing at all? I've seen alot of great times here, and I'll miss the game. I won't miss the management. Operation Reciprocity
antientity	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:18:00 - [2474] Originally by: Xalorn Have you seen the server numbers since this broke? Well it is memorial day weekend. Thus people are traveling or getting very drunk in the US. So without historical figures its not much to say. But if people are reading the forums they are still playing.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:20:00 - [2475] That pos was looking at me funny... i petitioned it. SKUNK
Marovinchian Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:23:00 - [2476] Originally by: Mr Friendly Originally by: Marovinchian Edited by: Marovinchian on 27/05/2007 03:41:35 Originally by: Fluffernator Yeah, I think Its time to cancel my account..... Is it fair a BOB member can get a petition answered immediatly by msn and I have to wait two weeks?..... its kinda sad that ccp is meta gaming their own creation! I think you are missing the flipside of this coin, Is it fair that goons have one of thier members in isd bumping bob dreadnaughts in a very hostile situation while being invincible? From what ive been able to decipher without my eyes bleeding...it seems everyone is up in arms about bob getting an issue with cheating and ccp employee's abusing thier power handled in a timely manner...i mean....sheesh You see the accusations whichever way you want to see them, but in the end this situation was caused by goons abusing the people THEY have working for THEM in the departments of ccp 1) a goon member? from what I've read, he isn't. I could very well be wrong, but where are you getting your info from? 2)from what I can tell, he MAY have bumped a dread for a short time. Noob Q here, does that matter to a beseiging Dread who was probably in Siege mode? I don't know either way, so this is really a request for info. If one dread DID get bumped, how might that have changed the outcome of the siege? Admittedly, if ISD is intefering with normal gameplay, that's not good. However, did the interference change anything(if it happened at all)? Compare that with the alleged near-immediate firing of the ISD employee. That reeks of BoB/CCP collusion (if it's true). 3)from what I can tell, after having read the thread (I think) plus the ahem linked stuff, the issue is NOT "about bob getting an issue with cheating and ccp employee's abusing thier power handled in a timely manner." It's that BoB (in this case) was flipping out about stuff that they probably shouldn't have (understandable if you are in battle and have big stakes), but more about BoB using means of communication not available to the non-BoB characters to get a non-issue resolved using their Dev-access powers(in this example) and about CCP employees/volunteers essentially serving at the tolerance of BoB. Frankly, this is more serious, by far, than a flippant comment on your part followed by a 'sheesh' emote. It is certainly NOT merely an issue of "goons abusing the people THEY have working for THEM in the departments of ccp." That's about as diametrically opposed to the issues at hand I can think of, while still being in the same context. Maybe read before you post? Thanks. Maybe THINK before YOU post, basically you are saying that ccp employees interfering with bob gameplay = ok, but bob members having the interfering employee dealt with = not ok? I get that you feel the SUPPOSED line of communication used makes for an uneven level of timely resolution to seperate situations...but seriously...having a problem dealt with being a bigger deal than the person causing the problems? In reference to your actual non flame latent question, the dreads in question were not in seige, and when aligned to warp into a very hostile/outnumbered engagement it would prove EXTREMELY useful for them to have an isd member bumping a couple guys out of alignment to catch them away from the others when a warp command was given or if an escape was needed. Also in regards to the employee being fired, he was a volunteer working in a "right to work" sort of situation, he screwed up and was let go in a timely manner, much like any screw up that gets canned. Flippant?.....yeah i am. Everyone needs some external reason why bob win at eve...facts are (having spent over 3 years outside bob) that they simply do everything better, and have more dedication and will to win than anyone else out there, and attract the majority of like minded people. The witch hunt as to why they win need only look at this fact
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:29:00 - [2477] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 27/05/2007 04:29:18 Proof I'd leave BoB if the charges are true "as stated" by goons: Way back in May 0f 2004 after getting back from the desert I started to play Eve. I knew Blacklight and few other BNC from a previous game. Some friends, some enemies, but all on good terms and with respect(yep, it IS possible to actively war with folks for RL YEARS in online games, and yet still respect them). Not long after starting Eve, I joined BNC (then part of NORAD's military arm) I discovered that even as a noob, I could make top quality Bookmarks, and that the veterans LOVED my Bookmarks. I was popular, and felt great about pulling my wieght even with my low skill points. I even managed to fire my launchers now and then, but while it was fun, I was a minnow among sharks, but a minnow with useful talent that made me valuable. Then something happned. I wont go into details, as it is now a dead issue, but I left BNC over a matter of principle. The day after I left I added the following to my bio: "If you are standing on a vital point of principle, and your friends tell you to stop, what would you do?" It was "not" a sudden leaving (took well over a month), and I was warned repeatedly to stop pressing the issue, but as I said repeatedly at the time, as much as I liked the folks I was playing with, I would not compromise, even it meant leaving corp. Turned out it meant leaving corp (I suspect I know who was behind the brick wall I ran into, but as stated, it is a dead issue now. To this day I dont know "why" I ran into a brick wall, but as it is no longer an issue, I dont worry about it.) A number of months latter I was invited to help form BNC.E. My first act was to see if the issue that concerned me was still an issue. Turned out that a few months after I left the corp did exactly what I had been asking for. In short, I HAVE left corp and alliance over something smaller than what the goon accuse BoB of. If what the goons said was true, I would know. (There may be a grain of truth "within" what they accuse, but what they accuse is completely untrue as stated (They accuse extensive deliberate favoratism by CCP)). Further proof that the accusations "as stated" are untrue: It does not take a lot of reading on the forums to realize that Blacklight is HIGHLY respected as a straight player, including by many enemies. If what the goons accuse was true as they state it, he would be all over it. It would NOT be tolerated. (Again, there might be a tiny true grain in there, of someone accelerating a petition improperly, and please note I used the word "might" and not the word "is", but what the goons accuse is a flat out lie. As for my extreme doubt, if the goons said the sun was up, I'd have my doubts even it was high noon and I was outside. I remember the last (and only) time I debated goons.)
Proxay Gallente Fallen Angel's Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:30:00 - [2478] Originally by: Marovinchian Stuff Dont bother, this whole thing is pointless; people dying irl over an internet game and some scandal makes no sense to me. The game is just fine for me, and my corp, and we think everyone who is flaming ccp is seriously mentally incapacitated to take a game this seriously. I'm not cancling my accounts because someone posts some drivel...get over it, all of you. Fallen Angel's Recruitment
Wloire	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:34:00 - [2479] Originally by: Xalorn Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn The fact is, the only thing that matters here is that CCP has allowed this to happen through their policies. If anyone of you had a developer friend who would let you MSN them, you would. The problem is that CCP should not allow anyone at all in any alliance anywhere in game ever ever become "friends" with developers and if those relationships are exposed, and especially if they are being abused, the employee must be immediately terminated. The above was written by an ingame BoB allied corporation & he echos the voice of some goonfleet players in this thread. Stop making this an 'goon versus bob' issue. It is MUCH bigger than that. Don't you people get it? We are talking about the end of eve as we know it unless this unethical 'player to dev' contact is severed. And no, im not being melodramatic, as much as some here would like to believe that only goons care about this, you are wrong. This is all over the internet & non aligned corporations (mine included) are seriously considering leaving the game based upon how CCP handles this situation. Bye. Quote: Have you seen the server numbers since this broke? Maybe this 'special certain players to dev' connection wasn't a problem when the game was tiny with a tiny community, but the game has gotten big. A lot of the players are from other MMO communities where if a player and a dev had a conversation about the game in an unofficial manner, the dev would get fired & the player would be banned. CCP, you are in the MMO big leagues now, you have to drop the MMO little league behavior. Well its currently 4:27 EVE standard time, 9:30 in the earliest american time zone. Hardly primtime, and brigning up my login window I see... just under 19 000 online players, hardly a weak showing late saturday night/early sunday morning. Not as many people as you think are leaving. Generally people who have lives like to go out saturday nights as well. Please dont fabricate doom and gloom stories as filler for your posts.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:35:00 - [2480] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 04:34:18 Originally by: Marovinchian I get that you feel the SUPPOSED line of communication used makes for an uneven level of timely resolution to seperate situations...but seriously...having a problem dealt with being a bigger deal than the person causing the problems? Yes, because it gives those with the right MSN addresses advantages that the rest of the game lacks. Also, no, Raehkan is not and has never been a goon. Originally by: Sergeant Spot Proof I'd leave BoB if the charges are true "as stated" by goons: Just out of curiosity did you say the same thing the last time "untrue" allegations about a dev being a member of BoB were floating about? Or the time there were those "untrue" allegations of the self same dev spawning BPOs for your alliance?
Sujin Kai Starship Direct	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:37:00 - [2481] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 27/05/2007 04:29:18 Proof I'd leave BoB if the charges are true "as stated" by goons: Way back in May 0f 2004 after getting back from the desert I started to play Eve. I knew Blacklight and few other BNC from a previous game. Some friends, some enemies, but all on good terms and with respect(yep, it IS possible to actively war with folks for RL YEARS in online games, and yet still respect them). Not long after starting Eve, I joined BNC (then part of NORAD's military arm) I discovered that even as a noob, I could make top quality Bookmarks, and that the veterans LOVED my Bookmarks. I was popular, and felt great about pulling my wieght even with my low skill points. I even managed to fire my launchers now and then, but while it was fun, I was a minnow among sharks, but a minnow with useful talent that made me valuable. Then something happned. I wont go into details, as it is now a dead issue, but I left BNC over a matter of principle. The day after I left I added the following to my bio: "If you are standing on a vital point of principle, and your friends tell you to stop, what would you do?" It was "not" a sudden leaving (took well over a month), and I was warned repeatedly to stop pressing the issue, but as I said repeatedly at the time, as much as I liked the folks I was playing with, I would not compromise, even it meant leaving corp. Turned out it meant leaving corp (I suspect I know who was behind the brick wall I ran into, but as stated, it is a dead issue now. To this day I dont know "why" I ran into a brick wall, but as it is no longer an issue, I dont worry about it.) A number of months latter I was invited to help form BNC.E. My first act was to see if the issue that concerned me was still an issue. Turned out that a few months after I left the corp did exactly what I had been asking for. In short, I HAVE left corp and alliance over something smaller than what the goon accuse BoB of. If what the goons said was true, I would know. (There may be a grain of truth "within" what they accuse, but what they accuse is completely untrue as stated (They accuse extensive deliberate favoratism by CCP)). Further proof that the accusations "as stated" are untrue: It does not take a lot of reading on the forums to realize that Blacklight is HIGHLY respected as a straight player, including by many enemies. If what the goons accuse was true as they state it, he would be all over it. It would NOT be tolerated. (Again, there might be a tiny true grain in there, of someone accelerating a petition improperly, and please note I used the word "might" and not the word "is", but what the goons accuse is a flat out lie. As for my extreme doubt, if the goons said the sun was up, I'd have my doubts even it was high noon and I was outside. I remember the last (and only) time I debated goons.) If what you quit over was the t20 affair, then that's good, but it means that BoB people knew that BoB was using a cheating developer to their advantage. If what you quit over wasn't the t20 affair then you should have quit again when it was publicly revealed that t20 was known to be a developer and a source of secret information ("sworn to secrecy") and that he gave cheated-for T2 blueprints to BoB when he was forced to depart (i.e. when interaction between him and BoB was officially supposed to cease, instead of just not interacting with BoB any more he decided to go all out and give BoB all the stuff that he could so easily cheat to replace). So which was it? Did BoB knowingly cheat at around the same time that they were loudly proclaiming that BoB never cheats and there were no devs in BoB, or did you knowingly not quit BoB when you were forcibly made aware of the most disgraceful dev corruption scandal in Eve's history?
Proxay Gallente Fallen Angel's Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:37:00 - [2482] Edited by: Proxay on 27/05/2007 04:38:17 Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Ramblings and trolling The Std. Bob member didn't know, and i'm sure no-one in leadership knew. Stop trying to sell fear and doom when there is none. Quote: If what you quit over was the t20 affair, then that's good, but it means that BoB people knew that BoB was using a cheating developer to their advantage. If what you quit over wasn't the t20 affair then you should have quit again when it was publicly revealed that t20 was known to be a developer and a source of secret information ("sworn to secrecy") and that he gave cheated-for T2 blueprints to BoB when he was forced to depart (i.e. when interaction between him and BoB was officially supposed to cease, instead of just not interacting with BoB any more he decided to go all out and give BoB all the stuff that he could so easily cheat to replace). So which was it? Did BoB knowingly cheat at around the same time that they were loudly proclaiming that BoB never cheats and there were no devs in BoB, or did you knowingly not quit BoB when you were forcibly made aware of the most disgraceful dev corruption scandal in Eve's history? This issue is over, go read an existing thread for your pitiful questions. Fallen Angel's Recruitment
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:41:00 - [2483] Originally by: Marovinchian Everyone needs some external reason why bob win at eve...facts are (having spent over 3 years outside bob) that they simply do everything better, and have more dedication and will to win than anyone else out there, and attract the majority of like minded people. The witch hunt as to why they win need only look at this fact Wow - there it is again. The elitism I spoke about several pages back that keeps coming from BOB. And, if anyone missed it, the entire Eve player base has just been summarily dissed - no matter what corp your in, no matter what alliance you're in, no matter what level of experience you're at. This is unreal. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Stephar The High Priest	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:42:00 - [2484] What a thread! One little comment: It's not in CCP's best interest for BoB to wipe everyone else out of 0.0. For EVE to survive, it needs new players... and they won't play if it appears that an alliance has already won the game. So if there's any corruption, it's not at the top. The big guys at CCP are not dumb, they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them. CCP will deal with the developers & staff that have crossed the line. That being said, my account is temporarily cancelled. I'll reactivate when this is sorted.
Drake Dracoli	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:43:00 - [2485] I don't get what the fuss is about. "OMG CCP IS CORRUPT!11! THE GAME IS DOOMED! EVE IS AT ITS END!!!" What?! For a sheer majority of people, this incident hasn't affected them whatsoever. Its just a bunch of sensational forums posts that people are wailing about. EVE Online is a fun game, and I'm going to keep playing it, I don't seem to see the "crashing and burning" of it going on around me. So get over it and stop being drama queens. CCP is trying to do its job, and people aren't perfect.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:44:00 - [2486] Originally by: Proxay The Std. Bob member didn't know, and i'm sure no-one in leadership knew. So if the average BoB member didn't know they were cheating last time why should we believe them when they claim they're not cheating this time?
Bal Rokko Caldari The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:45:00 - [2487] Well the psychological damage has been done. Whatever the outcome of the enquiry, even more people will have a dim view of CCP and BoB with what has happened. There was an excellent reply posted from a chap who said he worked at Blizzard, stating how the dev team interfaced with the game, and the obvious restrictions put in place. We don't seem to have the same setup here. In fact, with all the bugs, lag, poor design and implementation in areas, cheating, and further allegations - i wonder if CCP are a bunch of 20 year old amateurs who somehow stumbled across great gameplay at some point, which hit the market at the right time, and created a great userbase. It seems like their inexperience shows through with the bad decisions that have been made both patch wise and behaviour wise. It scares me that the future of this game is in these people's hands.....
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:45:00 - [2488] col+lu+sion (kə-lōō'zhən) Pronunciation Key n. A secret agreement between two or more parties for a fraudulent, illegal, or deceitful purpose. cor+rup+tion (kə-rŭp'shən) Pronunciation Key n. lack of integrity or honesty (especially susceptibility to bribery); use of a position of trust for dishonest gain
antientity	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:46:00 - [2489] Originally by: Marovinchian Also in regards to the employee being fired, he was a volunteer working in a "right to work" sort of situation, he screwed up and was let go in a timely manner, much like any screw up that gets canned. Yeah, we do not know if the person had prior offenses, which lead to immediate removal. So i think nobody has a right to say it was unjust yet. I remember getting responses to petitions within a minute it all depends how busy the day is. And since everyone assumes BOB talks via MSN and assuming he MSNed, the reply to that bob member could of been PETITION. And i imagine an exploit petition stating that a ISD is bumping gets escalated. We can also assume that in normal situations more then one person will petition in a issue like that. Originally by: Drake Dracoli I don't get what the fuss is about. "OMG CCP IS CORRUPT!11! THE GAME IS DOOMED! EVE IS AT ITS END!!!" What?! For a sheer majority of people, this incident hasn't affected them whatsoever. Its just a bunch of sensational forums posts that people are wailing about. EVE Online is a fun game, and I'm going to keep playing it, I don't seem to see the "crashing and burning" of it going on around me. So get over it and stop being drama queens. CCP is trying to do its job, and people aren't perfect. I agree.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:46:00 - [2490] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 04:34:18 Originally by: Marovinchian I get that you feel the SUPPOSED line of communication used makes for an uneven level of timely resolution to seperate situations...but seriously...having a problem dealt with being a bigger deal than the person causing the problems? Yes, because it gives those with the right MSN addresses advantages that the rest of the game lacks. Also, no, Raehkan is not and has never been a goon. Originally by: Sergeant Spot Proof I'd leave BoB if the charges are true "as stated" by goons: Just out of curiosity did you say the same thing the last time "untrue" allegations about a dev being a member of BoB were floating about? Or the time there were those "untrue" allegations of the self same dev spawning BPOs for your alliance? goony I don't want to bring it up again but a Dev never spawned the BPos. He didnsomething just as bad. Once it was found he was a Dev and he was letting PC's know and other stuff. He was told to leave the corp. before he left he gave his BPO's to BoB. He gave BPO's he used for testing and just has for months. it's still not cool but get your facts straight. there is a good chance thatr top member thought it was sweet to get the BPO's without knowing they were being favored.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:49:00 - [2491] Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: Marovinchian Everyone needs some external reason why bob win at eve...facts are (having spent over 3 years outside bob) that they simply do everything better, and have more dedication and will to win than anyone else out there, and attract the majority of like minded people. The witch hunt as to why they win need only look at this fact Wow - there it is again. The elitism I spoke about several pages back that keeps coming from BOB. And, if anyone missed it, the entire Eve player base has just been summarily dissed - no matter what corp your in, no matter what alliance you're in, no matter what level of experience you're at. This is unreal. I agree, why won't BoB keep it's flame war to being better than you goon's? I keep feeling like 'm getting slaped in the face. If I could before a goon now I would. just to fight BoB. I still don't think anyone is cheating really. but this high and mighty we rule you all crap is getting to me big time.
antientity	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:49:00 - [2492] Originally by: Stephar What a thread! One little comment: It's not in CCP's best interest for BoB to wipe everyone else out of 0.0. For EVE to survive, it needs new players... and they won't play if it appears that an alliance has already won the game. So if there's any corruption, it's not at the top. The big guys at CCP are not dumb, they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them. CCP will deal with the developers & staff that have crossed the line. That being said, my account is temporarily cancelled. I'll reactivate when this is sorted. It should also be said that its not in BOB's best interest to wipe everyone out either, nor would it make the game any better for them, there goal at this point is to remove all people who in their mind are idiots.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:50:00 - [2493] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 04:49:26 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 22:20:14 Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 26/05/2007 22:12:35 Originally by: Merc998 Originally by: Rauth Kivaro I've just reviewed the forum rules- there isn't any indication of which websites can't be linked. snip Please see your previous post for an answer to your question. -Rauth Rauth, Why did you remove his last sentence with your edit? He didn't link, he didn't say anything that should have been removed imo. I didn't precive anything wrong with it ? Is even mentioning that name a crime with a capital punishment ? I just sent [email protected] an email asking about a number of websites, including this question: "If not [cannot be posted], why not? I have reviewed the forum rules and would be happy to refer to whatever section of them prohibits these sites from being posted. Just give me a place or section # to look at!" I am sure the mods will get back to me in good time, with logical reasons and not stonewall this. I would truly hate for Arkanon to be shown to have been dishonest. Since emailling is the proper channel for this and is presented as the only option by the moderation staff, I expect this to be quickly dealt with. I just wanted to note that is now been just over 6 hours since I sent an email to the [email protected], just like I was directed- surprise, surprise, no response at all yet. It's almost like I was directed there so I would shut up and be ignored. I STILL have no idea which websites can't be posted or any good reason why they can't. Thanks for your transparency, CCP!!
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:50:00 - [2494] When I can talk to the devs on the same level as bob, I will reactivate my account.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:52:00 - [2495] ugh also, all this altposting is extremely annoying..if you have something to say that is worth saying, use your damn main
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:52:00 - [2496] Hi well, i've read all the frickin 4 quadrillion posts in here and i would not be surprised if eve will be shut down in the next 1 or 2 years. The incompetence of CCP just reached a critical mass and cant sustain its current form any longer. Its not the "favouritism of Bob" that players make to quit. Its the combination of: 1. Poor and often unlogic game design. 2. Poor game performance 3. Server Issues / Lag 4. T20 incident / CCP's lies about it 5. Unwanted features (walking in stations) before the code has been optimized 6. Bugs all around the game (personaly i never played a game with a monthly fee with that much bugs... i've played several Emulations of mmorpgs that runs better, smoother than this.) 7. Poor Customer Support -> Petitions answered with mass mails or stay completely unanswered for several months. 8. Banning players who adress critisms to CCP and deleting post with the same stuff. 9. Employees play the game too and noone can proof if they use the aquired wisdom for they own / alliance use. And on Top: 10. CCP is best friend with the winning Alliance ingame and they have some sort of "special connection" to them. Others have to wait until christmas to get CCP's attention but not BOB / BOD. Summary for me is: This game has no future and will be replaced by a company who is competent enough to develop a mmorpg without the stuff from above. Greez And btw. this is my alt.
Fiendish Lo Eve University	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:53:00 - [2497] Originally by: "Stahlregen" If we didn't care for this community and we didn't care for this game why are we going through so much effort to try and shape it into how we believe it should be: A fair and level playing field? I do have to say that I find some of the protests by various Goons (not you specifically) about how much the Goons care for the community a bit disingenuous in light of the fact that anyone can open up a publicly viewable Something Awful thread in which a number of Goons were discussing the merits of flying en masse into Empire space and ganking every newbie they can point a gun at, until either the Goonfleet is banned or every corporation in Eve is against them. God only knows what some of your people are discussing on the private Goon forum, where the pubbies can't see what they're saying. Jokes like Remedial's about the war being a contest over whether the Goons or BoB will get to ruin the game are only half jokes. As are comments to the effect that the Goons aren't going to destroy the game over this scandal. First they're going to win the war, then they're going to destroy the game. Quote: If we didn't care for all of this why wouldn't we have quit and gone played pirates of the burning sea like you say we should, seeing as how complaining is futile and that the most obvious exit is to quit now that our time in the 0.0 spotlight is over? Because Pirates of the Burning Sea isn't being released in June after all? Mind you, I like Goonfleet, or at least the idea of it, and far more than I like BoB, whose public face is that of a gang of loutish (and often stupid) nerds as proud of their mastery of this form of geekery as the Comic Book Shop guy on the Simpsons is of his ability to quote the entire screenplay of Star Wars. But some of you protest too much of your care for the community. Again, I'm not speaking of you specifically. Just some tendencies I've seen in your space guild.
Sujin Kai Starship Direct	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:54:00 - [2498] Originally by: MotherMoon goony I don't want to bring it up again but a Dev never spawned the BPos. T20 admitted that he didn't come by those BPOs legitimately. He didn't actually spell out that he spawned them, but it was clear that he spawned them, or rigged the lottery, or did something behind the scenes to get them inappropriately. And then he handed them to BoB, and BoB took them, knowing who he was (because he had given them secret CCP information before).
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:58:00 - [2499] Originally by: antientity Originally by: Stephar What a thread! One little comment: It's not in CCP's best interest for BoB to wipe everyone else out of 0.0. For EVE to survive, it needs new players... and they won't play if it appears that an alliance has already won the game. So if there's any corruption, it's not at the top. The big guys at CCP are not dumb, they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them. CCP will deal with the developers & staff that have crossed the line. That being said, my account is temporarily cancelled. I'll reactivate when this is sorted. It should also be said that its not in BOB's best interest to wipe everyone out either, nor would it make the game any better for them, there goal at this point is to remove all people who in their mind are idiots. I don't think/hope BoB wants to own all of ).)
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:00:00 - [2500] Originally by: Sujin Kai Originally by: MotherMoon goony I don't want to bring it up again but a Dev never spawned the BPos. T20 admitted that he didn't come by those BPOs legitimately. He didn't actually spell out that he spawned them, but it was clear that he spawned them, or rigged the lottery, or did something behind the scenes to get them inappropriately. And then he handed them to BoB, and BoB took them, knowing who he was (because he had given them secret CCP information before). yeah, I tried to edit my post but it wouldn't let me I guess it's like arguing the same point. sorry
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:00:00 - [2501] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Butzewutze Hi Its not the "favouritism of Bob" that players make to quit. Its the combination of: 5. Unwanted features (walking in stations) before the code has been optimized oh really? unwanted by you maybe wanted by everyone else Hm... so u want to tell me this game isnt really bugged and walking in stations is "the feature" we want to stay ingame? I dont think so. Its like a car that drives 10 miles and then shut down from itself... not a problem... i will add a spoiler on top to compensate.
banton	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:00:00 - [2502] I have no idea what your policies are at CCP. However, the removing of petitions and forum threads....if true. At My Company would get you fired no questions asked. Everyone can make a mistake, join a corp. without telling the CEO first lets say. But to try to cover the up the fact that this happened. That is a problem, I am a DBA by trade. I would never use my permissions to alter information for myself or my friends. In fact, if it was proved, I would not only be fired. I would go to prison. That all said, full disclosure is a problem because this is an HR matter and the people involved has a right to that information remaining private. But I would like to see either a statement of policy by CCP regarding what is permitted and what is not. That you can and should do.
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:00:00 - [2503] Originally by: Butzewutze Hi well, i've read all the frickin 4 quadrillion posts in here and i would not be surprised if eve will be shut down in the next 1 or 2 years. The incompetence of CCP just reached a critical mass and cant sustain its current form any longer. Its not the "favouritism of Bob" that players make to quit. Its the combination of: 1. Poor and often unlogic game design. 2. Poor game performance 3. Server Issues / Lag 4. T20 incident / CCP's lies about it 5. Unwanted features (walking in stations) before the code has been optimized 6. Bugs all around the game (personaly i never played a game with a monthly fee with that much bugs... i've played several Emulations of mmorpgs that runs better, smoother than this.) 7. Poor Customer Support -> Petitions answered with mass mails or stay completely unanswered for several months. 8. Banning players who adress critisms to CCP and deleting post with the same stuff. 9. Employees play the game too and noone can proof if they use the aquired wisdom for they own / alliance use. And on Top: 10. CCP is best friend with the winning Alliance ingame and they have some sort of "special connection" to them. Others have to wait until christmas to get CCP's attention but not BOB / BOD. Summary for me is: This game has no future and will be replaced by a company who is competent enough to develop a mmorpg without the stuff from above. Greez And btw. this is my alt. Speak for yourself, and post with your main, have the curage to speak your mind with your main. Otherwise your thought is worthless. As far as I am concerned I hope Bob and Goons both quit, the bickering between them is out of control, and I think both groups are a bunch of dribbling children who think they are better then everyone else for some unexplainable reason.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:03:00 - [2504] Originally by: barry warzght Yea CCP seriously needs to look at this cause it makes for bad reviews and a bad game in genral. If they dont have anything to hide then why did SharkBait not respond to the petition this is what really worries me... EvE used to be on the top of sites like MMORPG.com but now it's plauged by people who give 0's over and over again because of this one thing. it's like 6th now gives us a bad image I was getting, "eVe? you mean the game that the Dev's cheat in?" I hate it so much. Please think about what the gaming communty and I mean the whoiloe gaming communty of millions think about EvE. please take it into consideration. I don't want to be bashed on the side when I'm not playing EvE. well it's not me that is bashed but it still hurts a little when you liek something so much and your nerdy friends don't like it.
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:04:00 - [2505] Originally by: WhitePhantom Originally by: Butzewutze Hi well, i've read all the frickin 4 quadrillion posts in here and i would not be surprised if eve will be shut down in the next 1 or 2 years. The incompetence of CCP just reached a critical mass and cant sustain its current form any longer. Its not the "favouritism of Bob" that players make to quit. Its the combination of: 1. Poor and often unlogic game design. 2. Poor game performance 3. Server Issues / Lag 4. T20 incident / CCP's lies about it 5. Unwanted features (walking in stations) before the code has been optimized 6. Bugs all around the game (personaly i never played a game with a monthly fee with that much bugs... i've played several Emulations of mmorpgs that runs better, smoother than this.) 7. Poor Customer Support -> Petitions answered with mass mails or stay completely unanswered for several months. 8. Banning players who adress critisms to CCP and deleting post with the same stuff. 9. Employees play the game too and noone can proof if they use the aquired wisdom for they own / alliance use. And on Top: 10. CCP is best friend with the winning Alliance ingame and they have some sort of "special connection" to them. Others have to wait until christmas to get CCP's attention but not BOB / BOD. Summary for me is: This game has no future and will be replaced by a company who is competent enough to develop a mmorpg without the stuff from above. Greez And btw. this is my alt. Speak for yourself, and post with your main, have the curage to speak your mind with your main. Otherwise your thought is worthless. As far as I am concerned I hope Bob and Goons both quit, the bickering between them is out of control, and I think both groups are a bunch of dribbling children who think they are better then everyone else for some unexplainable reason. I wrote that is the summary for "me" but i guess it hits the nail on top for more then just me. And btw. i dont care if u dont like my alt or if u think my words are worthless.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:05:00 - [2506] Originally by: Butzewutze Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Butzewutze Hi Its not the "favouritism of Bob" that players make to quit. Its the combination of: 5. Unwanted features (walking in stations) before the code has been optimized oh really? unwanted by you maybe wanted by everyone else Hm... so u want to tell me this game isnt really bugged and walking in stations is "the feature" we want to stay ingame? I dont think so. Its like a car that drives 10 miles and then shut down from itself... not a problem... i will add a spoiler on top to compensate. But the walking isn't coming untill the new cilent is released. and don't you dare bring up the one carrier as an example it's allready been fixed a while ago.
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:05:00 - [2507] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Tod Klemp just out of curiosity, what does sharkbait have to do with bob? Its not like they are a hard corp to get into. /me shrugs. T20 was in BoB so all the devs must be in bob, duh, rational thinking! No T20 was never in BoB. Read all the posts of BoB's members at that time. I believe in them! Don't you dare to say that T20 was in BoB your tinfoil bandwagoner. Ya, T20 was never in bob. He had an alt in bob. See how easy it is to play semantics liek the rest of you tardswarm guys? Again, what did sharkbait have to do with bob? What did bob actually do? Has anything been proven? Would you like a nice witch? Here you go
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:08:00 - [2508] Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 05:09:38 Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 05:08:45 Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 05:07:29 A very interesting public post from Sharkbait a while ago in response to an Eve Tribune article on GM intervention (see here). Sharkbait Posted: "i read the 1st 3 lines for the GM artical and got bored. it's written based on rumors and complete crap spread by others. the stuff the GM's do is for a reason, not just something they decide to do to lighten up there lives. there is much talk between the senior GM's about getting involved with ingame stuff before they get involved." (found here). Sooooo, given Sharkbait's infiltration of Darkstar 1 for some as yet unconfirmed or xplained reason, it seems that there must have been "much talk" about his getting involved in such a way. If there was NOT much talk, then perhaps it was a rogue act of his. Which was it -- and why? That's all we really want toknow about that. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:08:00 - [2509] Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Tod Klemp just out of curiosity, what does sharkbait have to do with bob? Its not like they are a hard corp to get into. /me shrugs. T20 was in BoB so all the devs must be in bob, duh, rational thinking! No T20 was never in BoB. Read all the posts of BoB's members at that time. I believe in them! Don't you dare to say that T20 was in BoB your tinfoil bandwagoner. Ya, T20 was never in bob. He had an alt in bob. See how easy it is to play semantics liek the rest of you tardswarm guys? Again, what did sharkbait have to do with bob? What did bob actually do? Has anything been proven? Would you like a nice witch? Here you go go to the front page of EvE-online click devblog look to your right look a news post open it oh look "Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened was simply a developer doing his job ingame. He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, which was bugged." why does a Dev have to join a corp to fix something? can't you use your magical poweres of being a dev? To do the same thing and not get cuaght?
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:08:00 - [2510] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Butzewutze Hi Its not the "favouritism of Bob" that players make to quit. Its the combination of: 5. Unwanted features (walking in stations) before the code has been optimized oh really? unwanted by you maybe wanted by everyone else no, I don't think anyone wants that.
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:09:00 - [2511] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Butzewutze Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Butzewutze Hi Its not the "favouritism of Bob" that players make to quit. Its the combination of: 5. Unwanted features (walking in stations) before the code has been optimized oh really? unwanted by you maybe wanted by everyone else Hm... so u want to tell me this game isnt really bugged and walking in stations is "the feature" we want to stay ingame? I dont think so. Its like a car that drives 10 miles and then shut down from itself... not a problem... i will add a spoiler on top to compensate. But the walking isn't coming untill the new cilent is released. and don't you dare bring up the one carrier as an example it's allready been fixed a while ago. Hm... fire all the guys who worked on this feature and get more dudes in with knowledge of database / network issues and get the problems worked out before adding new features. I dont want a new client with old bugs and new bugs implemented from "walking in stations". But i guess thats not the right thread to discuss it.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:10:00 - [2512] Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 05:07:29 A very interesting public post from Sharkbait a while ago in response to an Eve Tribune article on GM intervention (see http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=1_19&page=7). Sharkbait Posted: "i read the 1st 3 lines for the GM artical and got bored. it's written based on rumors and complete crap spread by others. the stuff the GM's do is for a reason, not just something they decide to do to lighten up there lives. there is much talk between the senior GM's about getting involved with ingame stuff before they get involved." (found at http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=1_20&page=print). Sooooo, given Sharkbait's infiltration of Darkstar 1 for some as yet unconfirmed or xplained reason, it seems that there must have been "much talk" about his getting involved in such a way. If there was NOT much talk, then perhaps it was a rogue act of his. Which was it -- and why? That's all we really want toknow about that. I hope this brings to light how the goons aren't even saying anything about BoB. the BoB thing is a whole different story. with the ISD member. I bet you more than 70% of the goons care more about the lack of information and answers than BoB cheating.
Talis'har Spliffs	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:11:00 - [2513] Completely off topic, but is anyone offering a cash prize for the first post on page 100?
barry warzght Band of Devs	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:11:00 - [2514] 1,000,000 GET
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:12:00 - [2515] So I don't have to re-read 20 pages, could someone repost the proof that the ISD guy was in Goonfleet? All of the BoB guys are taking that for granted now and it wasn't even being considered before I took a break from reading a while ago.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:13:00 - [2516] Originally by: Talis'har Completely off topic, but is anyone offering a cash prize for the first post on page 100? The prize is the thread getting locked and CCP telling us to shut up
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:22:00 - [2517] Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Tod Klemp just out of curiosity, what does sharkbait have to do with bob? Its not like they are a hard corp to get into. /me shrugs. T20 was in BoB so all the devs must be in bob, duh, rational thinking! No T20 was never in BoB. Read all the posts of BoB's members at that time. I believe in them! Don't you dare to say that T20 was in BoB your tinfoil bandwagoner. Ya, T20 was never in bob. He had an alt in bob. See how easy it is to play semantics liek the rest of you goonswarm guys? Again, what did sharkbait have to do with bob? What did bob actually do? Has anything been proven? Would you like a nice witch? Here you go snip go to the front page of EvE-online click devblog look to your right look a news post open it oh look "Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened was simply a developer doing his job ingame. He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, which was bugged." why does a Dev have to join a corp to fix something? can't you use your magical poweres of being a dev? To do the same thing and not get cuaght? Ok, now open you mind and do some thinking. What the hell can a dev do IN THE CORP that he cant do OUT OF THE CORP? I mean seriously. Stop and think. thank you for backing my main point. I don't know you don't know NO ONE KNOWS
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:23:00 - [2518] Originally by: CaffCeo Originally by: Elmo Noguchi I just wanted to note that is now been just over 6 hours since I sent an email to the [email protected], just like I was directed- surprise, surprise, no response at all yet. It's almost like I was directed there so I would shut up and be ignored. I STILL have no idea which websites can't be posted or any good reason why they can't. Thanks for your transparency, CCP!! Hmm, 6 hours which would put the email at what, 2AM eve time? On a sunday? Or 7pm EST on a holiday weekend in the US. Do you think they have time to answer emails within 6 hours on a weekend night, or holiday weekend, within 6 hours? Normally when I email mods, or any of the dev's it takes a good 2-3 days for a response, and thats during slower periods.... Have some F'in patience. You raised a good point. Since the devs can't be arsed to answer questions, here are some links for whoever is confused by what is going on. Hopefully they'll last a few minutes, though since the rules don't say a thing about it, I have NO REASON TO THINK THEY'LL BE DELETED. http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?t=832 http://digg.com/pc_games/EVE_Creators_CCP_Under_Fire_Again_for_Alleged_Corruption_Open_Letter_Made http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/26/0016226 Farewell, Eve O forum members! Remember me next time Arkanon talks about how CCP doesn't censor the community.
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:23:00 - [2519] That's what I've been saying all along.
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:24:00 - [2520] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi stuff anyone that goes to kugfag's site can expect intrusions into their pc. So, better stash the **** and bank accounts.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:25:00 - [2521] Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 05:07:29 A very interesting public post from Sharkbait a while ago in response to an Eve Tribune article on GM intervention (see http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=1_19&page=7). Sharkbait Posted: "i read the 1st 3 lines for the GM artical and got bored. it's written based on rumors and complete crap spread by others. the stuff the GM's do is for a reason, not just something they decide to do to lighten up there lives. there is much talk between the senior GM's about getting involved with ingame stuff before they get involved." (found at http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=1_20&page=print). Sooooo, given Sharkbait's infiltration of Darkstar 1 for some as yet unconfirmed or xplained reason, it seems that there must have been "much talk" about his getting involved in such a way. If there was NOT much talk, then perhaps it was a rogue act of his. Which was it -- and why? That's all we really want toknow about that. I hope this brings to light how the goons aren't even saying anything about BoB. the BoB thing is a whole different story. with the ISD member. I bet you more than 70% of the goons care more about the lack of information and answers than BoB cheating. So, the goons lump it all together in one big letter so the general idiots out there draw the conclusion bob had something to do with it. I mean it isnt rocket science to see their motives. Bob is absolutly decimating them ingame. Anyone with a shred of objectivity can see that. who gives a ****
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:25:00 - [2522] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: CaffCeo Originally by: Elmo Noguchi I just wanted to note that is now been just over 6 hours since I sent an email to the [email protected], just like I was directed- surprise, surprise, no response at all yet. It's almost like I was directed there so I would shut up and be ignored. I STILL have no idea which websites can't be posted or any good reason why they can't. Thanks for your transparency, CCP!! Hmm, 6 hours which would put the email at what, 2AM eve time? On a sunday? Or 7pm EST on a holiday weekend in the US. Do you think they have time to answer emails within 6 hours on a weekend night, or holiday weekend, within 6 hours? Normally when I email mods, or any of the dev's it takes a good 2-3 days for a response, and thats during slower periods.... Have some F'in patience. You raised a good point. Since the devs can't be arsed to answer questions, here are some links for whoever is confused by what is going on. Hopefully they'll last a few minutes, though since the rules don't say a thing about it, I have NO REASON TO THINK THEY'LL BE DELETED. http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?t=832 http://digg.com/pc_games/EVE_Creators_CCP_Under_Fire_Again_for_Alleged_Corruption_Open_Letter_Made http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/26/0016226 Farewell, Eve O forum members! Remember me next time Arkanon talks about how CCP doesn't censor the community. I will!
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:27:00 - [2523] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 05:07:29 A very interesting public post from Sharkbait a while ago in response to an Eve Tribune article on GM intervention (see http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=1_19&page=7). Sharkbait Posted: "i read the 1st 3 lines for the GM artical and got bored. it's written based on rumors and complete crap spread by others. the stuff the GM's do is for a reason, not just something they decide to do to lighten up there lives. there is much talk between the senior GM's about getting involved with ingame stuff before they get involved." (found at http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=1_20&page=print). Sooooo, given Sharkbait's infiltration of Darkstar 1 for some as yet unconfirmed or xplained reason, it seems that there must have been "much talk" about his getting involved in such a way. If there was NOT much talk, then perhaps it was a rogue act of his. Which was it -- and why? That's all we really want toknow about that. I hope this brings to light how the goons aren't even saying anything about BoB. the BoB thing is a whole different story. with the ISD member. I bet you more than 70% of the goons care more about the lack of information and answers than BoB cheating. So, the goons lump it all together in one big letter so the general idiots out there draw the conclusion bob had something to do with it. I mean it isnt rocket science to see their motives. Bob is absolutly decimating them ingame. Anyone with a shred of objectivity can see that. who gives a ** The point is clealry an attempt at guilt by association. Because they can't win ingame they decide to manufacture a scandel involving bob. They mix a load of rubbish with two parts bull** and the mob eats it up like it is candy. I personally hope everyone that says they are quitting in this thread actually does. The eve communities IQ will be going up steeply.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:30:00 - [2524] Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 05:07:29 A very interesting public post from Sharkbait a while ago in response to an Eve Tribune article on GM intervention (see http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=1_19&page=7). Sharkbait Posted: "i read the 1st 3 lines for the GM artical and got bored. it's written based on rumors and complete crap spread by others. the stuff the GM's do is for a reason, not just something they decide to do to lighten up there lives. there is much talk between the senior GM's about getting involved with ingame stuff before they get involved." (found at http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=1_20&page=print). Sooooo, given Sharkbait's infiltration of Darkstar 1 for some as yet unconfirmed or xplained reason, it seems that there must have been "much talk" about his getting involved in such a way. If there was NOT much talk, then perhaps it was a rogue act of his. Which was it -- and why? That's all we really want toknow about that. I hope this brings to light how the goons aren't even saying anything about BoB. the BoB thing is a whole different story. with the ISD member. I bet you more than 70% of the goons care more about the lack of information and answers than BoB cheating. So, the goons lump it all together in one big letter so the general idiots out there draw the conclusion bob had something to do with it. I mean it isnt rocket science to see their motives. Bob is absolutly decimating them ingame. Anyone with a shred of objectivity can see that. who gives a ** The point is clealry an attempt at guilt by association. Because they can't win ingame they decide to manufacture a scandel involving bob. They mix a load of rubbish with two parts bull** and the mob eats it up like it is candy. I personally hope everyone that says they are quitting in this thread actually does. The eve communities IQ will be going up steeply. so if they left out the part about BoB then what song would you be playing?
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:30:00 - [2525] Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 05:07:29 A very interesting public post from Sharkbait a while ago in response to an Eve Tribune article on GM intervention (see http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=1_19&page=7). Sharkbait Posted: "i read the 1st 3 lines for the GM artical and got bored. it's written based on rumors and complete crap spread by others. the stuff the GM's do is for a reason, not just something they decide to do to lighten up there lives. there is much talk between the senior GM's about getting involved with ingame stuff before they get involved." (found at http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=1_20&page=print). Sooooo, given Sharkbait's infiltration of Darkstar 1 for some as yet unconfirmed or xplained reason, it seems that there must have been "much talk" about his getting involved in such a way. If there was NOT much talk, then perhaps it was a rogue act of his. Which was it -- and why? That's all we really want toknow about that. I hope this brings to light how the goons aren't even saying anything about BoB. the BoB thing is a whole different story. with the ISD member. I bet you more than 70% of the goons care more about the lack of information and answers than BoB cheating. So, the goons lump it all together in one big letter so the general idiots out there draw the conclusion bob had something to do with it. I mean it isnt rocket science to see their motives. Bob is absolutly decimating them ingame. Anyone with a shred of objectivity can see that. who gives a ** The point is clealry an attempt at guilt by association. Because they can't win ingame they decide to manufacture a scandel involving bob. They mix a load of rubbish with two parts bull** and the mob eats it up like it is candy. I personally hope everyone that says they are quitting in this thread actually does. The eve communities IQ will be going up steeply. Look at it from the goon perspective. They have 3 things they view as scandals. How would you have had them release it, if not together? You know the community as well as them, wouldn't there have been mass confusion? Even more attempts to ignore 1 or 2 issues and focus on the third? More general chaos? Give us some credit. Most of us non-goonswarmers recognize the issues are different from one another and BoB is only involved with a couple. Maybe people would think BoB was less involved if they didn't bust onto these forums with elitist and condescending crap that WORSEN the situation...but then I suppose the goons do too.
James VanRijkdom	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:31:00 - [2526] Now , the ccp employees being able to play the game w/ inside knowledge or helping others out w it is unprofessional yes, (Mcdonald's employees cant play the Monopoly sticker game for a top-o-the-head example), but I do agree w ones here who say basically Quit freaking out and being so melodramatic and acting like its the end of the world when a guy/ couple of company employees want to get in on the action. Its a game for Pete's sake. It's fun and theres a lot of quality features, there will always be something complain about. Don't act all righteous and say you never cheated at anything or used some kind of slightly unfair advantage over another person. (in a Gaming Sense) I personally hate cheating, but please get off the high-horse "I'm going to quit now" pseudo-principledness. Whatever. I'm rolling my eyes continuessly reading some of these posts by people who need to realize there are many more important things in life, and many more "Actuall" injustices in the world rather than you feeling bad because someone got a little bonus over you. Overcome it and be better than them. Stop Whining. It's been a pleasure.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:31:00 - [2527] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 05:29:49 Originally by: Tod Klemp So, the goons lump it all together in one big letter so the general idiots out there draw the conclusion bob had something to do with it. Can you please get it through your head that not everything is about BoB? We want to know why a dev chose to make himself director of a corp in our alliance without informing anyone, not make BoB look bad. Their directors do a far better job of that than we ever could.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:33:00 - [2528] Originally by: James VanRijkdom Now , the ccp employees being able to play the game w/ inside knowledge or helping others out w it is unprofessional yes, (Mcdonald's employees cant play the Monopoly sticker game for a top-o-the-head example), but I do agree w ones here who say basically Quit freaking out and being so melodramatic and acting like its the end of the world when a guy/ couple of company employees want to get in on the action. Its a game for Pete's sake. It's fun and theres a lot of quality features, there will always be something complain about. Don't act all righteous and say you never cheated at anything or used some kind of slightly unfair advantage over another person. (in a Gaming Sense) I personally hate cheating, but please get off the high-horse "I'm going to quit now" pseudo-principledness. Whatever. I'm rolling my eyes continuessly reading some of these posts by people who need to realize there are many more important things in life, and many more "Actuall" injustices in the world rather than you feeling bad because someone got a little bonus over you. Overcome it and be better than them. Stop Whining. It's been a pleasure. wow after reading this I think I done with sitting read reading every post made :P I got stuff to do in the morning and it's allready 1:30 in the morning how did I read forums for 2 hours? ow
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:34:00 - [2529] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 05:29:49 Originally by: Tod Klemp So, the goons lump it all together in one big letter so the general idiots out there draw the conclusion bob had something to do with it. Can you please get it through your head that not everything is about BoB? We want to know why a dev chose to make himself director of a corp in our alliance without informing anyone, not make BoB look bad. Their directors do a far better job of that than we ever could. ok I'll go to bed right after I hug you
antientity	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:34:00 - [2530] Originally by: Butzewutze Hi Its not the "favouritism of Bob" that players make to quit. Its the combination of: 1. Poor and often unlogic game design. 2. Poor game performance 3. Server Issues / Lag 4. T20 incident / CCP's lies about it 5. Unwanted features (walking in stations) before the code has been optimized 6. Bugs all around the game (personaly i never played a game with a monthly fee with that much bugs... i've played several Emulations of mmorpgs that runs better, smoother than this.) 7. Poor Customer Support -> Petitions answered with mass mails or stay completely unanswered for several months. 8. Banning players who adress critisms to CCP and deleting post with the same stuff. 9. Employees play the game too and noone can proof if they use the aquired wisdom for they own / alliance use. And on Top: 10. CCP is best friend with the winning Alliance ingame and they have some sort of "special connection" to them. Others have to wait until christmas to get CCP's attention but not BOB / BOD. Summary for me is: This game has no future and will be replaced by a company who is competent enough to develop a mmorpg without the stuff from above. Greez 11. Negative people. 12. MSSQL REALLY? Ill give credit to CCP: The positives of 1 server makes up for half the stuff you complain about, the other half isn't valid or unique to eve. Eve cant be replaced unless someone makes a single game world better in every way and in space. So lets be less destructive and more helpful. So good side is: 1. Single game world. +++ 2. DEV Blogs 3. People have a voice in the end. 4. Player Driven - Market, PVP etc. 5. Real risk/loss. 6. Propaganda machine/Political side 7. Free form playing. 8. Real Greifing 9. Massive Player groups 10. Ability to get so ****ed off. 11. Ability to inflict great losses and cause people to leave who expect no losses ever. 12. Ability to make a forum post and make a big uproar across all of eve. 13. Ability to lie to further your political agenda and maybe cause something to happen irreversible and go down in history. 14. Ability to have a history in game 15. Ability to be well known throughout the entire game world(try that in wow, or a single server). 16. 5+ other things i am forgetting.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:36:00 - [2531] Originally by: antientity Originally by: Butzewutze Hi Its not the "favouritism of Bob" that players make to quit. Its the combination of: 1. Poor and often unlogic game design. 2. Poor game performance 3. Server Issues / Lag 4. T20 incident / CCP's lies about it 5. Unwanted features (walking in stations) before the code has been optimized 6. Bugs all around the game (personaly i never played a game with a monthly fee with that much bugs... i've played several Emulations of mmorpgs that runs better, smoother than this.) 7. Poor Customer Support -> Petitions answered with mass mails or stay completely unanswered for several months. 8. Banning players who adress critisms to CCP and deleting post with the same stuff. 9. Employees play the game too and noone can proof if they use the aquired wisdom for they own / alliance use. And on Top: 10. CCP is best friend with the winning Alliance ingame and they have some sort of "special connection" to them. Others have to wait until christmas to get CCP's attention but not BOB / BOD. Summary for me is: This game has no future and will be replaced by a company who is competent enough to develop a mmorpg without the stuff from above. Greez 11. Negative people. 12. MSSQL REALLY? Ill give credit to CCP: The positives of 1 server makes up for half the stuff you complain about, the other half isn't valid or unique to eve. Eve cant be replaced unless someone makes a single game world better in every way and in space. So lets be less destructive and more helpful. So good side is: 1. Single game world. +++ 2. DEV Blogs 3. People have a voice in the end. 4. Player Driven - Market, PVP etc. 5. Real risk/loss. 6. Propaganda machine/Political side 7. Free form playing. 8. Real Greifing 9. Massive Player groups 10. Ability to get so ****ed off. 11. Ability to inflict great losses and cause people to leave who expect no losses ever. 12. Ability to make a forum post and make a big uproar across all of eve. 13. Ability to lie to further your political agenda and maybe cause something to happen irreversible and go down in history. 14. Ability to have a history in game 15. Ability to be well known throughout the entire game world(try that in wow, or a single server). 16. 5+ other things i am forgetting. Too bad CCP allowed (yes, allowed) all of Butzewutze's negative stuff to happen. We know the positive side- we shouldn't HAVE to justify the game to ourselves.
James VanRijkdom	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:37:00 - [2532] Originally by: antientity Originally by: Butzewutze Hi Its not the "favouritism of Bob" that players make to quit. Its the combination of: 1. Poor and often unlogic game design. 2. Poor game performance 3. Server Issues / Lag 4. T20 incident / CCP's lies about it 5. Unwanted features (walking in stations) before the code has been optimized 6. Bugs all around the game (personaly i never played a game with a monthly fee with that much bugs... i've played several Emulations of mmorpgs that runs better, smoother than this.) 7. Poor Customer Support -> Petitions answered with mass mails or stay completely unanswered for several months. 8. Banning players who adress critisms to CCP and deleting post with the same stuff. 9. Employees play the game too and noone can proof if they use the aquired wisdom for they own / alliance use. And on Top: 10. CCP is best friend with the winning Alliance ingame and they have some sort of "special connection" to them. Others have to wait until christmas to get CCP's attention but not BOB / BOD. Summary for me is: This game has no future and will be replaced by a company who is competent enough to develop a mmorpg without the stuff from above. Greez 11. Negative people. 12. MSSQL REALLY? Ill give credit to CCP: The positives of 1 server makes up for half the stuff you complain about, the other half isn't valid or unique to eve. Eve cant be replaced unless someone makes a single game world better in every way and in space. So lets be less destructive and more helpful. So good side is: 1. Single game world. +++ 2. DEV Blogs 3. People have a voice in the end. 4. Player Driven - Market, PVP etc. 5. Real risk/loss. 6. Propaganda machine/Political side 7. Free form playing. 8. Real Greifing 9. Massive Player groups 10. Ability to get so ****ed off. 11. Ability to inflict great losses and cause people to leave who expect no losses ever. 12. Ability to make a forum post and make a big uproar across all of eve. 13. Ability to lie to further your political agenda and maybe cause something to happen irreversible and go down in history. 14. Ability to have a history in game 15. Ability to be well known throughout the entire game world(try that in wow, or a single server). 16. 5+ other things i am forgetting. Thank You for that. Yes and I'll be going to bed shortly also.

Rauth Kivaro Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:39:00 - [2533] Folks, only certain members of ISD are authorized to respond directly to your emails. This is intended to keep confusion from arising from inconsistent responses. As has been noted- it is a Saturday, and in the US, very late at night. Let me reassure you that requests to [email protected] are NOT being ignored. Your patience in this matter is deeply appreciated by all of us on the CRC team. Thanks and regards, Rauth Kivaro forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:42:00 - [2534] Quote: Maybe THINK before YOU post, basically you are saying that ccp employees interfering with bob gameplay = ok, but bob members having the interfering employee dealt with = not ok? I get that you feel the SUPPOSED line of communication used makes for an uneven level of timely resolution to seperate situations...but seriously...having a problem dealt with being a bigger deal than the person causing the problems? In reference to your actual non flame latent question, the dreads in question were not in seige, and when aligned to warp into a very hostile/outnumbered engagement it would prove EXTREMELY useful for them to have an isd member bumping a couple guys out of alignment to catch them away from the others when a warp command was given or if an escape was needed. Also in regards to the employee being fired, he was a volunteer working in a "right to work" sort of situation, he screwed up and was let go in a timely manner, much like any screw up that gets canned. Flippant?.....yeah i am. Everyone needs some external reason why bob win at eve...facts are (having spent over 3 years outside bob) that they simply do everything better, and have more dedication and will to win than anyone else out there, and attract the majority of like minded people. The witch hunt as to why they win need only look at this fact LoL 1)a bump to a dread by a frigate (accidental or not), over a very short timeframe (from what I can tell), has the same effect as allegedly having CCP dev's on speedial, leading to unfair resolutions of problems vs the rest of us? Are you on drugs? First you claimed he was a goonie, now he's a ccp employee screwing over the dread operation? GG on not answering my question on your information source and a great try at minimizing the potential outfall from the issue being discussed. You also still haven't explained how BoB apparently got the guy canned over a trivial incident(from what I can tell; pardon my ignorance, but bumping while you take a screenshot or 3 is hardly gsmebreaking); having dev's on msn to confer immediate gameplay advantages is, or else nearly 100 pages of forum space in the past 2 days don't mean anything. 2)You are claiming the ISD employee was deliberately inteferring with the ongoing BoB operation. I don't know this either way. From what I can tell, he may have bumped the Dread he moved to. Again, though, it looks like his inteference was brief, inadvertant and non-malicious. Again, comparing this to incestuously close player/dev relations is simply blind at best. 3)if "he was a volunteer working in a "right to work" sort of situation, he screwed up and was let go in a timely manner, much like any screw up that gets canned" is true, why does he allege all of the action taken against him occurred overnight, was completely thorough and seemingly WAY overpowered when measured against what may have happened in the system? Dude... think it through... even if he bumped the dread DELIBERATELY (which we don't have any proof of, I might add)... is 'firing him' and nuking all of his official connections to CCP in line with his hypothetical actions? If that was 'in-line', t20 should have been drawn and quartered in front of all of eve, burnt to death, then, all of his bloodline tracked down and podded into the stone age. 4) there's only one dread mentioned AFAIK. you're exagerating for effect. Also, unless there was a hostile fleet in system actively engaging the fleet, there was no danger to the dread unless it wads a prologned bumping. Facts first, please. You're conjecturing in order to try to show the ISD member posed a larger threat than he MAY have. 5) I don't need an 'external' reason to show why BoB is winning. I'm not in 0.0, I have no stakes in 0.0... likely, if BoB could spawn titans whenever they wanted, it wouldn't effect me AT ALL. That's right... I don't care that BoB seems to be aided by CCP.... IT'S THAT CCP IS HELPING ANYONE!!! It's about CCP, not BoB. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:43:00 - [2535] Originally by: Rauth Kivaro Folks, only certain members of ISD are authorized to respond directly to your emails. This is intended to keep confusion from arising from inconsistent responses. As has been noted- it is a Saturday, and in the US, very late at night. Let me reassure you that requests to [email protected] are NOT being ignored. Your patience in this matter is deeply appreciated by all of us on the CRC team. Thanks and regards, Rauth Kivaro huazzah! I never thought you were but being told this make me happy inside because the transpreny reminds me of my job at city year. greater than most but sometime you know nothing it's this contrast that get everyone so crazy so thank you for considering the feeling of those would think otherwise in this moment of high-strung end-of-thier rope...ness?. I'm to tired for this
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:44:00 - [2536] I hate to put it as crassly as this, for the BoB members and their defenders here it is. You are right, perhaps it is unfair to instantly assume that CCP staff colluded with BoB to give the BoB alliance unfair advantage. However, having CCP employees who retain membership in BoB seems kind of like a child abuser living across the street from an elementary school. When rumors of possible abuse by a stranger appears amongst the parents of the kids at the school, it might not be the guy who's moved in across the street. However, it isn't strange that the first place people might look is that new neighbour. Meaning, CCP employees have acted improperly in the past by helping[/b] BoB. When it appears that there might be more misconduct by CCP employees with a loose connection to BoB, its only natural that people suspect that suggested misbehavior has something to do with someone, again, giving BoB an unfair advantage. -Karlemgne [i] Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Rex Hargrove	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:45:00 - [2537] This whole situation sucks, and for more than the people who are "whining on the forums." You know who I REALLY feel sorry for? Those poor fools in BoB who really didn't have anything to do with this whole situation. Those guys who were just hardcore to the point of being slightly crazy, by waking up in the middle of the night to siege systems, training 4 and 5 capital ship alts at a time, and had no idea that they were getting the hook up on the side. I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for the CCP employees who did their job and worked hard to make a great game. It is a shame they are being lumped in with the bad apples. I feel sorry for the players who feel cheated. However, I don't feel sorry for the people who think that "having connections" isn't wrong. Ever try having "connections" on the stock exchange? Did you see how well that worked out for Martha Stewart? DoesnÆt it ** you off when an idiot gets promoted over you because he has "connections" by being the CEO's nephew? That's fair to you too right? To be honest, itÆs really your fault for not making friends with the CEO and thinking that your promotion would be based on merit instead of friendship. What about the war though? It's obvious that the goons are losing and that within 4 hours every goon station will fall, all of our ships will be blown up at once, and weÆll die in real life for being horrible people who all happen to be less than 14 years old. These threads are an attempt to draw attention from our inability to be competent enough to fit enough ibises to lag out a node. Yeah, go smash your head into a wall now. I play(ed) this game under the impression that the results of the 0.0 wars were a result of tactics and/or dedication. (Five points for the first genius who claims the goons have knowledge of neither tactics nor dedication to try to make a comeback to this post) It was an awesome feeling knowing that the people I killed and got podded by would fight tooth and nail for virtual space. If I was BoB, and I had the ambition to take over all 0.0, wouldn't it make sense to distance myself as far away from the Dev's as possible? I mean, seriously, why would I do anything that would possibly add an asterisk to your accomplishments? If IÆm all ôI want a good fight,ö and ôI want to prove that IÆm the best,ö why do stupid like what has happened over the past six months to bring clouds of doubt over your accomplishments? So when we hear that you can just MSN someone to get something fixed, you are ** right it **es us off. So what some ISD dude got fired because he bumped a dread. That's seriously not the issue. The issue is that there's no telling what ELSE has been "fixed" by a MSN message. Add in the constantly changing policies by CCP regarding issues such as account sharing (remember 2 weeks ago when within the span of 4 days account sharing wasn't okay, it was okay, then it wasn't, then it was do it at your own risk without us knowing?) and broken game mechanics (POS Bowling anyone?) and what we as a player base don't know seems pretty scary. Imagine a wife who was caught in an act of adultery once. Whether it's fair or not, any time she ends up somewhere she shouldn't be she is going to be accused of adultery again. For those of you who can't quite grasp the subtle meaning of metaphors, CCP, you're the desperate housewife here. So you HAVE to be more than honest in everything now, because you've been caught in the sack multiple times now. Heck, if you really wanted to do something, you could offer some disclosure on what devs have been in other alliances and how they've hooked them up? You donÆt have to give player names, just give some facts. I mean, you have done this for someone other BoB right? Or are they all out of luck because they didn't become your friends (read: suck up to you)? To everyone on the "developers" side, if you were NOT on "developers" side (read: All of you there's nothing wrong with this), then you would have the same complaints. But because you are, you will swear up and down on these forums that you wouldn't complain if the tables were turned. Nevertheless, nothing on these forums makes a difference. Here's hoping that my post does not fall into the Bermuda triangle and that some decent dialogue happens because of it. DB Preacher is a man. Use MSN for the petition if it gets me banned faster.
R0ger Wilco	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:49:00 - [2538] Isnt it funny that all the bob members that post in this thread arent nearly as arogant as they usually are ? And CCP You really have lost my trust this time I hope you feel proud of yourself.
Boliknar The Shadow Order Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:49:00 - [2539] Originally by: antientity Originally by: Butzewutze Hi Its not the "favouritism of Bob" that players make to quit. Its the combination of: 1. Poor and often unlogic game design. 2. Poor game performance 3. Server Issues / Lag 4. T20 incident / CCP's lies about it 5. Unwanted features (walking in stations) before the code has been optimized 6. Bugs all around the game (personaly i never played a game with a monthly fee with that much bugs... i've played several Emulations of mmorpgs that runs better, smoother than this.) 7. Poor Customer Support -> Petitions answered with mass mails or stay completely unanswered for several months. 8. Banning players who adress critisms to CCP and deleting post with the same stuff. 9. Employees play the game too and noone can proof if they use the aquired wisdom for they own / alliance use. And on Top: 10. CCP is best friend with the winning Alliance ingame and they have some sort of "special connection" to them. Others have to wait until christmas to get CCP's attention but not BOB / BOD. Summary for me is: This game has no future and will be replaced by a company who is competent enough to develop a mmorpg without the stuff from above. Greez 11. Negative people. 12. MSSQL REALLY? Ill give credit to CCP: The positives of 1 server makes up for half the stuff you complain about, the other half isn't valid or unique to eve. Eve cant be replaced unless someone makes a single game world better in every way and in space. So lets be less destructive and more helpful. So good side is: 1. Single game world. +++ 2. DEV Blogs 3. People have a voice in the end. 4. Player Driven - Market, PVP etc. 5. Real risk/loss. 6. Propaganda machine/Political side 7. Free form playing. 8. Real Greifing 9. Massive Player groups 10. Ability to get so ****ed off. 11. Ability to inflict great losses and cause people to leave who expect no losses ever. 12. Ability to make a forum post and make a big uproar across all of eve. 13. Ability to lie to further your political agenda and maybe cause something to happen irreversible and go down in history. 14. Ability to have a history in game 15. Ability to be well known throughout the entire game world(try that in wow, or a single server). 16. 5+ other things i am forgetting. What the hell game have you been playing that you actually think that number three actually exists? Come on man the "people" have had absolutley no say in anything. Just look at all the censored posts in this thread to see how much of a voice we do not have.
Inspiration	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:56:00 - [2540] Are we going for a record number of postings here, or what?
Butzewutze	Posted - 2007.05.27 05:56:00 - [2541] Dont discuss moderation in here... beaware teh mighty snip :P
antientity	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:00:00 - [2542] 16. Oh ya ISD etc. Now they may not be perfect, nor paid. I am glad they keep my eyes clear of the lowest form of forum replies. So a shout out to ISD. Also to those few people who want to quit go out go play some MMORPG's, and attempt to enjoy privileges of eve there, and good luck finding something. I am just posting all this stuff cause i care about it all. I do not think it is as bad as people make it out to be. Here we are running a double standard, since we are holding ccp up to the accountability and asking for honest information, however we don't expect the same from various governments. The said thing is we will receive it from ccp far sooner then any real government. Originally by: Boliknar What the hell game have you been playing that you actually think that number three actually exists? Come on man the "people" have had absolutley no say in anything. Just look at all the censored posts in this thread to see how much of a voice we do not have. Well for example Daily Show has civilized discourse. The mods like civilized discourse. However there may be some people who watch fox here, who prefer the yelling method. Which accomplishes much less.
Doctor Draw The Greater Goon The OSS	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:02:00 - [2543] CCP's response to these allegations have been pretty shameful. First they attempt to conceal or destroy evidence related to the accusations and then they release a vague and weak denial. That sort of PR game might have worked last time around, but these continuing incidents should and have shaken the confidence of a lot of players. CCP needed to react immediately and with full disclosure to make right what has been going wrong with their game. They haven't done anything of the sort and I have a feeling this is going to cost them a lot of previously happy customers. Good luck to all the customers that enjoy playing an honest game.
antientity	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:11:00 - [2544] Edited by: antientity on 27/05/2007 06:11:16 Edited by: antientity on 27/05/2007 06:10:41 Edited by: antientity on 27/05/2007 06:10:16 Originally by: Doctor Draw CCP's response to these allegations have been pretty shameful. First they attempt to conceal or destroy evidence related to the accusations and then they release a vague and weak denial. That sort of PR game might have worked last time around, but these continuing incidents should and have shaken the confidence of a lot of players. CCP needed to react immediately and with full disclosure to make right what has been going wrong with their game. They haven't done anything of the sort and I have a feeling this is going to cost them a lot of previously happy customers. Good luck to all the customers that enjoy playing an honest game. From my point of view they could be sifting logs for hours or days looking for something they cant find. If they post too soon and then find something then that makes everything much more difficult. They must be sure that it is a full review of events. I would rather wait then to have them say something too soon that could be inaccurate. I know this is not ENRON, since that's like waiting for everyone to die or forget. But it is the weekend and they may not want call in every last person to a lie detector test. Saying this, i am not sure what standard i should hold them to.
minmof	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:14:00 - [2545] well even when this "might" not be true, i'm canceling my 4 accounts as now, in part because of all this BS and in part because who in his right mind would think that someone with power playing the game as everyone else won't be tempted to use his/her powers to get a little bit of help in the game? i've done it before, not in a game but in RL, and i thought i was the kind of guy that is always correct and won't cheat over anything, so even if this is not true and anything that has been aid before about CCP changing the way of the game, i can't and won't pay top $ for a top game where their devs have equal rights as everone else but with a bit"" of power, so unless CCP puts their people out of regular accounts this game is not worth for me.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:16:00 - [2546] Originally by: minmof well even when this "might" not be true, i'm canceling my 4 accounts as now, in part because of all this BS and in part because who in his right mind would think that someone with power playing the game as everyone else won't be tempted to use his/her powers to get a little bit of help in the game? i've done it before, not in a game but in RL, and i thought i was the kind of guy that is always correct and won't cheat over anything, so even if this is not true and anything that has been aid before about CCP changing the way of the game, i can't and won't pay top $ for a top game where their devs have equal rights as everone else but with a bit"" of power, so unless CCP puts their people out of regular accounts this game is not worth for me. Can i have your stuffs?
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:18:00 - [2547] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: minmof well even when this "might" not be true, i'm canceling my 4 accounts as now, in part because of all this BS and in part because who in his right mind would think that someone with power playing the game as everyone else won't be tempted to use his/her powers to get a little bit of help in the game? i've done it before, not in a game but in RL, and i thought i was the kind of guy that is always correct and won't cheat over anything, so even if this is not true and anything that has been aid before about CCP changing the way of the game, i can't and won't pay top $ for a top game where their devs have equal rights as everone else but with a bit"" of power, so unless CCP puts their people out of regular accounts this game is not worth for me. Can i have your stuffs? You're so smart!! It's original and funny people like you who really contribute to this discussion. I especially like your 'big picture' view that grasps the real advantages of having people quit - because they don't agree with you! You're my hero.
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:23:00 - [2548] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley can i have your stuffs? shut the **** up, stupid alt bastard Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
OverKill Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:24:00 - [2549] Ok (climbs on the box) time for me to chime in... Some of you may know of me, and most of you probably do not. Sufficed to say, I have been here since before EVE was even released to the public. No, I'm not a fanboi, a dev or any other person except myself. I've been here since Alpha, Beta and day 1 of release. I can honestly say that aside from the 20-30 times that I've had all the devs over for a BBQ at my place (levity, humor, all that), I haven't had a single interaction with any of them ingame (that I am aware of) and it really makes no difference to me whether I do or not. Simply put; who cares if they are cheating, who cares if they are not?!?! There is no endgame in EVE. You can never "win" like so many people claim. EVE is designed to be an everlasting labor of love for her developers and for those of us who play in this universe. It is an idea, a dream and a realization of that dream that persists whether you are online or not. They killed my dreadnaught! So what, buy another one. They have access to T2 BPOs! So what, invent some of your own and don't buy from them. They have 1000 0.0 systems and we only have 550! So what, how much room do you honestly think you need? I saw XYZ talking to GM SuperKalaFragaListic! So what, how does it REALLY affect you? The corp I am a member of has been here since day 1, we've had our shares of up and down and we've never once resorted to any kind of dev assisted advancement, even if it does exist. We'll never be the richest most powerful bunch of uber players but that suits us just fine and we enjoy the game for what it is, an extension of our imaginations. Perhaps some of you need to take a good hard look at exactly what you are playing and what type of game you WANT to play. If you want an endgame then maybe you should be looking elsewhere. If you want to analyze, adapt and overcome then this is the place for you. The only issue that the players should be concerned with (most of you are, even hidden under 98 pages of somewhat murky waters) is the issue of a player being banned by a GM without a VERY thorough investigation. CCP does need to institute a policy in regards to banning, perhaps a two tier response system. GM 1 opts to ban a player for whatever reason, he needs someone else to execute said ban. (nuke missile keys anyone?!?!). Banning should require a fair bit of thought and investigation before its done! Anyways, I came, I saw, I said my peace... For the record, I am wearing asbestos underwear and am hereby flameproof. Regards, OK - Building With Tomorrow's Technology, Today! Hadean Drive Yards
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:25:00 - [2550] snip No need to attack other players. Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:27:00 - [2551] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Toffles Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Couldn't agree more. Now if only this entity would break it's ties with CCP and stop seeking out unfair advantages from the developers maybe we could stop the torrent of people canceling their subscriptions. BoB, through cheating, has done more to hurt this game than any other alliance. One more big scandal like this and Eve is over with no one but CCP and your alliance to blame. No, bob arent the ones spamming the forums causing it to have to be taken down. Bob arent the ones spamming mindless assumptions around on game websites, getting bad publicity for the game. So by your definition, Nixon wasn't the guilty guy at Watergate, it was Woodward? Brilliant! signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:29:00 - [2552] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:28:49 Originally by: OverKill words You'll have to help me out here, I'm not quite seeing why the fact that a game does not have an endgame makes cheating and developer misconduct something not worth caring about.
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:32:00 - [2553] Originally by: Tod Klemp anyone that goes to kugfag's site can expect intrusions into their pc. So, better stash the ** and bank accounts. it is still libel and mods are showing ***** favoritism for censoring only my posts! Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
Holocene	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:35:00 - [2554] About to break the 100 page mark
Miz Cenuij OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:37:00 - [2555] Am i on page 100 yet? "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Miz Cenuij OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:38:00 - [2556] no :( "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:38:00 - [2557] Originally by: Miz Cenuij Am i on page 100 yet? no, neither am I. btw. everyone who keeps playing will spend another 92,97$ this year for bob online :) Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
Nikos Iscariot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:43:00 - [2558] Originally by: OverKill Ok (climbs on the box) time for me to chime in... Simply put; who cares if they are cheating, who cares if they are not?!?! There is no endgame in EVE. You can never "win" like so many people claim. EVE is designed to be an everlasting labor of love for her developers and for those of us who play in this universe. It is an idea, a dream and a realization of that dream that persists whether you are online or not. They killed my dreadnaught! So what, buy another one. They have access to T2 BPOs! So what, invent some of your own and don't buy from them. They have 1000 0.0 systems and we only have 550! So what, how much room do you honestly think you need? I saw XYZ talking to GM SuperKalaFragaListic! So what, how does it REALLY affect you? The corp I am a member of has been here since day 1, we've had our shares of up and down and we've never once resorted to any kind of dev assisted advancement, even if it does exist. We'll never be the richest most powerful bunch of uber players but that suits us just fine and we enjoy the game for what it is, an extension of our imaginations. Hey friend, you should come chill with us in 0.0 sometime. :)
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:49:00 - [2559] Edited by: Stahlregen on 27/05/2007 06:50:56 Page 100 Snipa FNLN FOR CEO In regards to the whole situation regarding the dev scandal i'd love for nothing more than a full and swift investigation.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:49:00 - [2560] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:48:16 Originally by: Dominique Parr You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. Also all that pesky "evidence" stuff but hey, let's just ignore that for now. Edit: damnit, so close
Nymos Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:50:00 - [2561] woot, page 100 -- Every time a carebear dies an angel gets their wings (murder one)
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:50:00 - [2562] Originally by: Stahlregen I'm going to get the sniper and then auction the post off on the goonfleet forums, i reckon i could get a couple hundred mil at the very least for it. noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, damnit Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:50:00 - [2563] MMORPG REvies of EVE-O Cast your votes, lets tank CCPS ratings for their abuse of their own player base........
ssorion Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:50:00 - [2564] Respect to GS for this 'threadnoughting'. It takes some effort to organise such forum-blob, and some courage to risk your account getting banned. Afterall, something happening is always better than nothing happening. Boredom kills faster than abuse/drama. 2 Whoever-manages-that-open-letter, please keep updating it, and preferrably with summary and list of questions to CCP. Reading 100-page long thread is not something casual gamer will do, and its too easy to evade inconvient questions for CCP IA in this mess. BTW, tried to search for that 'Admiral Chamrajnagar', who claimed to be CCP DBA, and EVE said no such character... Yet on the screeine D2 presented he congrats BoB with killed titan in local... Renamed char ? Fake screenie ? lol P.S. Post on page 100 of the Epic Thread, yay ! P.P.S This thread definitely goes in my favs in category 'examples how NOT to handle bewildered players'. No idea whether any cheating happened or not, but deleting petitions and trying to silence the crowd never works. Afterall, people pay the money, and deserve the right to be heard and answered, even if they are wrong.
Aleek	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:50:00 - [2565] CCP has done nothing to build player trust. I know no one in game that doesnÆt think the T20 fiasco was handled horribly and amounted to a slap on the wrists at best. CCP now faces players assuming that CCP is guilty of breaking its own rules again because of the way T20 was handled. The current players I know think that CCP is doing nothing about this current situation and feel that even if wrongdoing is found the punishment will be another slap on the wrists. Players are quitting because of the way CCP handled T20, not so much of this incident. This incident pushed people over on the game. Sad because if T20 was handled better these players might trust the company to finish the investigation before deciding on their moves. Now factor in the Slashdotting, DIGGs, and other Internet posts. CCP is building its own nightmare and appears to be arrogant enough to believe that there is no backlash. They could be right, but not forever. They have basically burned the trust card and probably will never get that back.
FireFox McProwler Caldari Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:51:00 - [2566] Originally by: OverKill Ok (climbs on the box) time for me to chime in... Some of you may know of me, and most of you probably do not. Sufficed to say, I have been here since before EVE was even released to the public. No, I'm not a fanboi, a dev or any other person except myself. I've been here since Alpha, Beta and day 1 of release. I can honestly say that aside from the 20-30 times that I've had all the devs over for a BBQ at my place (levity, humor, all that), I haven't had a single interaction with any of them ingame (that I am aware of) and it really makes no difference to me whether I do or not. Simply put; who cares if they are cheating, who cares if they are not?!?! There is no endgame in EVE. You can never "win" like so many people claim. EVE is designed to be an everlasting labor of love for her developers and for those of us who play in this universe. It is an idea, a dream and a realization of that dream that persists whether you are online or not. They killed my dreadnaught! So what, buy another one. They have access to T2 BPOs! So what, invent some of your own and don't buy from them. They have 1000 0.0 systems and we only have 550! So what, how much room do you honestly think you need? I saw XYZ talking to GM SuperKalaFragaListic! So what, how does it REALLY affect you? The corp I am a member of has been here since day 1, we've had our shares of up and down and we've never once resorted to any kind of dev assisted advancement, even if it does exist. We'll never be the richest most powerful bunch of uber players but that suits us just fine and we enjoy the game for what it is, an extension of our imaginations. Perhaps some of you need to take a good hard look at exactly what you are playing and what type of game you WANT to play. If you want an endgame then maybe you should be looking elsewhere. If you want to analyze, adapt and overcome then this is the place for you. The only issue that the players should be concerned with (most of you are, even hidden under 98 pages of somewhat murky waters) is the issue of a player being banned by a GM without a VERY thorough investigation. CCP does need to institute a policy in regards to banning, perhaps a two tier response system. GM 1 opts to ban a player for whatever reason, he needs someone else to execute said ban. (nuke missile keys anyone?!?!). Banning should require a fair bit of thought and investigation before its done! Anyways, I came, I saw, I said my peace... For the record, I am wearing asbestos underwear and am hereby flameproof. Regards, OK - I agree with this. I was a gm for the Lineage 2 privet server Eternal Sin. You need to put some thought into what is required to ban some. When someone with the ability to ban someone is in a bad mood the person is going to be harsher then normal. Plus the reasons for banning someone i think need a little work. but in the end you must remember your on there service. They have the right to remove you without a reason. So them giving you a reason is there choice. AXE is looking for members!! Clicky for info.
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:53:00 - [2567] Originally by: ssorion Respect to GS for this 'threadnoughting'. It takes some effort to organise such forum-blob, and some courage to risk your account getting banned. Afterall, something happening is always better than nothing happening. Boredom kills faster than abuse/drama. 2 Whoever-manages-that-open-letter, please keep updating it, and preferrably with summary and list of questions to CCP. Reading 100-page long thread is not something casual gamer will do, and its too easy to evade inconvient questions for CCP IA in this mess. BTW, tried to search for that 'Admiral Chamrajnagar', who claimed to be CCP DBA, and EVE said no such character... Yet on the screeine D2 presented he congrats BoB with killed titan in local... Renamed char ? Fake screenie ? lol that screen wasnt altered, I guess he's still ig but you cant find him via p&p Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
Zephirz Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:53:00 - [2568] The biggest dramabomb ever tbh :) zephirz
BoeserBiber	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:55:00 - [2569] 20 posts til 3000 Do not troll in your signature and do not repost a signature that was removed by a moderator. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Subflict GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:58:00 - [2570] postin
Iiva	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:59:00 - [2571] To be fair: I'm sure there's plenty of people within CCP that are ***ed off at the one or two people who have caused such a number of the playerbase to lose trust in the company. I wonder if this whole discussion could be routed a bit, talking more about ways that CCP could help prevent stuff like this from happening (because I'm sure they're not ALL behind it), instead of trash talking every single person in the company because of the sins of a couple. I guess they're really starting to feel the effects of one scandal now... and the "wrath" that is a swarm of self-proclaimed "internet warriors" like Goons. Saddest part is that everyone just falls for what seems to be a well planned-out troll/flamebait set by people who do this all the time. shakes fist* Shame on you, and for all of you supposedly canceling your accounts over this: Good riddance, Darwin strikes again :>
Dominique Parr Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:00:00 - [2572] Edited by: Dominique Parr on 27/05/2007 07:00:27 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi snip Do NOT post images in this forum. And if you can say that either side, as a whole, has been civil, you're so woefully biased that it's not even worth talking about. There's plenty you can say about the Goons and friends and about BoB, but if you try to say either side is being polite and well-reasoned here your word is worthless. Please forgive me, but I don't feel an alt character created after this thread was started has any credibility. As for my bias. I don't know BoB and I don't know Goons. So my opinions after reading most of this thread are determined from a very unbiased point of view. There are always the few from each side who lack a civil tongue in an open discussion. Maybe the Goons should ask theirs to not post? This way an open active dialogue can be achieved and this matter could have been resolved a more expedited manner.
Qutan	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:02:00 - [2573] Whats required here is quick and truthful action from ccp, sadly this has not happened, as in real politcs you should never leave a void, it will only be filled by the masses with truth, half truth, rumour and lies and this then leads to loss of confidence in a leader , a leader should lead, ccp has failed at this issue . Lets hope its not too late to repair the damage I for one really hope so, I love the game and have waited many years since elite to play this type of game So come on all at CCP get your act together we know you are all computer geeks with a less than real world business attitude (Ive watched some of you on eve tv yeah before the broadcast times, got a god idea what you guys are like ) get your act together and show some strong LEADERSHIP !
Jovius Marginus Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:03:00 - [2574] Anyone wanna eve-mail me some pics of a certain t-naught I missed it =/ Oh and CCP refused my Mach reimbursment(seriously deserved it) and closed it when I said "Its cool I know Sir Molle" so I'm gonna ask the important question noone else has asked. wtf d4vh4x?!?!/?? Its a tough quetion I hope CCP can find an answer for.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:06:00 - [2575] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 07:06:12 Originally by: Dominique Parr Edited by: Dominique Parr on 27/05/2007 07:00:27 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi snip Do NOT post images in this forum. And if you can say that either side, as a whole, has been civil, you're so woefully biased that it's not even worth talking about. There's plenty you can say about the Goons and friends and about BoB, but if you try to say either side is being polite and well-reasoned here your word is worthless. Please forgive me, but I don't feel an alt character created after this thread was started has any credibility. As for my bias. I don't know BoB and I don't know Goons. So my opinions after reading most of this thread are determined from a very unbiased point of view. There are always the few from each side who lack a civil tongue in an open discussion. Maybe the Goons should ask theirs to not post? This way an open active dialogue can be achieved and this matter could have been resolved a more expedited manner. This character was created because my main was banned for posting in (just posting in, asking for clarification) one of the threads while CCP was still feverishly trying to delete all of the posts about the subject. As for the rest about how unbiased you are and therefore you can see that the Goons are doing wrong but the BoB responders are A-OK...well. That can stand or fall on it's own merits. Originally by: Jovius Marginus Anyone wanna eve-mail me some pics of a certain t-naught I missed it =/ Oh and CCP refused my Mach reimbursment(seriously deserved it) and closed it when I said "Its cool I know Sir Molle" so I'm gonna ask the important question noone else has asked. wtf d4vh4x?!?!/?? Its a tough quetion I hope CCP can find an answer for. The threadnaught wasn't actually a single thread. After the single thread got quickly deleted without response, the goons spammed every forum with posts with a link to their open letter. Not too screenshot worthy, but I guess it worked.
Pie Cakes	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:08:00 - [2576] Originally by: Dominique Parr Edited by: Dominique Parr on 27/05/2007 07:00:27 Please forgive me, but I don't feel an alt character created after this thread was started has any credibility. As for my bias. I don't know BoB and I don't know Goons. So my opinions after reading most of this thread are determined from a very unbiased point of view. There are always the few from each side who lack a civil tongue in an open discussion. Maybe the Goons should ask theirs to not post? This way an open active dialogue can be achieved and this matter could have been resolved a more expedited manner. Not gonna happen. Once BoB/Goons/alts start posting, the thread instantly becomes CAOD.
Jovius Marginus Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:09:00 - [2577] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 07:06:12 Originally by: Dominique Parr Edited by: Dominique Parr on 27/05/2007 07:00:27 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi snip Do NOT post images in this forum. And if you can say that either side, as a whole, has been civil, you're so woefully biased that it's not even worth talking about. There's plenty you can say about the Goons and friends and about BoB, but if you try to say either side is being polite and well-reasoned here your word is worthless. Please forgive me, but I don't feel an alt character created after this thread was started has any credibility. As for my bias. I don't know BoB and I don't know Goons. So my opinions after reading most of this thread are determined from a very unbiased point of view. There are always the few from each side who lack a civil tongue in an open discussion. Maybe the Goons should ask theirs to not post? This way an open active dialogue can be achieved and this matter could have been resolved a more expedited manner. This character was created because my main was banned for posting in (just posting in, asking for clarification) one of the threads while CCP was still feverishly trying to delete all of the posts about the subject. As for the rest about how unbiased you are and therefore you can see that the Goons are doing wrong but the BoB responders are A-OK...well. That can stand or fall on it's own merits. Originally by: Jovius Marginus Anyone wanna eve-mail me some pics of a certain t-naught I missed it =/ Oh and CCP refused my Mach reimbursment(seriously deserved it) and closed it when I said "Its cool I know Sir Molle" so I'm gonna ask the important question noone else has asked. wtf d4vh4x?!?!/?? Its a tough quetion I hope CCP can find an answer for. The threadnaught wasn't actually a single thread. After the single thread got quickly deleted without response, the goons spammed every forum with posts with a link to their open letter. Not too screenshot worthy, but I guess it worked. Thats disappointing. Last one is the only thing I ever found funny about the goons. Sry to say but Goons just went from potentially funny to /fail
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:11:00 - [2578] Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Dominique Parr Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:28:49 Originally by: OverKill words You'll have to help me out here, I'm not quite seeing why the fact that a game does not have an endgame makes cheating and developer misconduct something not worth caring about. You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. And before you go saying "They did it in the past." (A lame arguement if you ask me.) Since when does one person's guilt encompass an entire group? I'm pretty sure since bob tried to grief goonswarm out of the game for having a signature on their own private forums that we now get to do that to them. So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are.
EFF ONEF1 Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:11:00 - [2579] while i may be a noob. (played for a few, quit, then just came back) i can see no resolution to this. only thing i can suggest is that ALL non-bob alliances make peace and assault their space immediately. even single empire pilots and rats put their differences aside and destroy the ingame symbol of this favortism. a witch hunt, yes. but given the past with ccp intervention in regards to bob, alot of what has transpired is hard to ignore. some of it circumstantial, yes, but most no. and given the past precedent and lack of communication and not-so-subtle sweeping under the rug, history is repeating itself. we can turn this forum madness into ingame construction and show all of EVE (indeed the game industry as this is widely known) that even with this allegeded favortism, EVE is about players and we can over come this, TOGETHER. first by removing the very mechanism this favortism uses. BoB. the stage is set for possibly THE largest conflict in gaming history. i forsee many a youtube video upcomming! its a long weekend in america. and im sure that the various alliance leaders (even those who cancled and still have time left) can make this happen. forget the boards, settle it in space. ill throw my noob 4mil sp caracal into the action! ----------------------------------------------- Micheal Schumacher will retire with 8.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:12:00 - [2580] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 07:12:02 Originally by: Jovius Marginus Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 07:06:12 Originally by: Dominique Parr Edited by: Dominique Parr on 27/05/2007 07:00:27 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi snip Do NOT post images in this forum. And if you can say that either side, as a whole, has been civil, you're so woefully biased that it's not even worth talking about. There's plenty you can say about the Goons and friends and about BoB, but if you try to say either side is being polite and well-reasoned here your word is worthless. Please forgive me, but I don't feel an alt character created after this thread was started has any credibility. As for my bias. I don't know BoB and I don't know Goons. So my opinions after reading most of this thread are determined from a very unbiased point of view. There are always the few from each side who lack a civil tongue in an open discussion. Maybe the Goons should ask theirs to not post? This way an open active dialogue can be achieved and this matter could have been resolved a more expedited manner. This character was created because my main was banned for posting in (just posting in, asking for clarification) one of the threads while CCP was still feverishly trying to delete all of the posts about the subject. As for the rest about how unbiased you are and therefore you can see that the Goons are doing wrong but the BoB responders are A-OK...well. That can stand or fall on it's own merits. Originally by: Jovius Marginus Anyone wanna eve-mail me some pics of a certain t-naught I missed it =/ Oh and CCP refused my Mach reimbursment(seriously deserved it) and closed it when I said "Its cool I know Sir Molle" so I'm gonna ask the important question noone else has asked. wtf d4vh4x?!?!/?? Its a tough quetion I hope CCP can find an answer for. The threadnaught wasn't actually a single thread. After the single thread got quickly deleted without response, the goons spammed every forum with posts with a link to their open letter. Not too screenshot worthy, but I guess it worked. Thats disappointing. Last one is the only thing I ever found funny about the goons. Sry to say but Goons just went from potentially funny to /fail Yeah, goons, how come you couldn't expose allegations of corruption AND be hilarious Shame on you goons Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Dominique Parr Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:28:49 Originally by: OverKill words You'll have to help me out here, I'm not quite seeing why the fact that a game does not have an endgame makes cheating and developer misconduct something not worth caring about. You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. And before you go saying "They did it in the past." (A lame arguement if you ask me.) Since when does one person's guilt encompass an entire group? I'm pretty sure since bob tried to grief goonswarm out of the game for having a signature on their own private forums that we now get to do that to them. So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are. You're saying that Goons targetting CCP for things that don't relate to BoB at all is somehow...an attack to get back at BoB? You're not helping your case much here.
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:13:00 - [2581] Any new posts from ark? I can't scan 100 pages...
ssorion Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:13:00 - [2582] Originally by: OozoO that screen wasnt altered, I guess he's still ig but you cant find him via p&p Well, i hope CCP IA shed some light on that matter, cause if he is actual CCP employee, and is DBA as he claimed in his bio, it makes titan comments and ISD reporter IRC logs very fishy coincidence. Technically that would assume that DBA (or better to say guy-with-direct-unlimited-and-almost-untrackable-database-access) is affiliated with group of players and sometimes do them some favors even when matters are not within his authority (IRC log), surely if he is CCP DBA, and he was involved in firing that ISD guy, which is yet to be confirmed/denied by CCP.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:14:00 - [2583] Originally by: Namingway Any new posts from ark? I can't scan 100 pages... All new posts are linked to in the original post. Short answer: not really anything worthwhile.
Jovius Marginus Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:18:00 - [2584] Originally by: OozoO Originally by: Tomas Ysidro What a thread... qft qft
Oohwha Schipperman Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:19:00 - [2585] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are. That's a pretty transparent misreading of Stahlgren's post. As for "discrediting" BoB and CCP -- they would have to have some shred of credibility left in order to discredit them. The t20 incident pretty much took that off the table.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:19:00 - [2586] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Dominique Parr Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:28:49 Originally by: OverKill words You'll have to help me out here, I'm not quite seeing why the fact that a game does not have an endgame makes cheating and developer misconduct something not worth caring about. You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. And before you go saying "They did it in the past." (A lame arguement if you ask me.) Since when does one person's guilt encompass an entire group? I'm pretty sure since bob tried to grief goonswarm out of the game for having a signature on their own private forums that we now get to do that to them. So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are. You're saying that Goons targetting CCP for things that don't relate to BoB at all is somehow...an attack to get back at BoB? You're not helping your case much here. No i'm not, Stahlregen is. I'm agreefng with him, and it's pretty obvious he's right. It's just a way for the goons to get back at BoB. All for the lulz huh.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:20:00 - [2587] 100 pages, my god. It's unfortunate this whole thing has blown up to this proportion, but I trust the matter will be investigated thoroughly, and the community will be kept in the loop on the facts surrounding the matter. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:21:00 - [2588] Edited by: Xeliya on 27/05/2007 07:20:09 Originally by: Tomas Ysidro What a thread... What thread
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:21:00 - [2589] Originally by: Oohwha Schipperman Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are. That's a pretty transparent misreading of Stahlgren's post. As for "discrediting" BoB and CCP -- they would have to have some shred of credibility left in order to discredit them. The t20 incident pretty much took that off the table. Nothing has been misread. You know it looks bad for goons, trying to save your allies looks desperate.
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:23:00 - [2590] Originally by: Tomas Ysidro What a thread... thats not what id call it.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:23:00 - [2591] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Dominique Parr Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:28:49 Originally by: OverKill words You'll have to help me out here, I'm not quite seeing why the fact that a game does not have an endgame makes cheating and developer misconduct something not worth caring about. You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. And before you go saying "They did it in the past." (A lame arguement if you ask me.) Since when does one person's guilt encompass an entire group? I'm pretty sure since bob tried to grief goonswarm out of the game for having a signature on their own private forums that we now get to do that to them. So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are. You're saying that Goons targetting CCP for things that don't relate to BoB at all is somehow...an attack to get back at BoB? You're not helping your case much here. No i'm not, Stahlregen is. I'm agreefng with him, and it's pretty obvious he's right. It's just a way for the goons to get back at BoB. All for the lulz huh. READ WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!!! You seem to be acknowledging that attacking CCP is the SAME as attacking BoB, which is what goonies and friends have been insinuating all along! Is this what you actually mean to say??!
Jovius Marginus Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:24:00 - [2592] Originally by: Winterblink 100 pages, my god. It's unfortunate this whole thing has blown up to this proportion, but I trust the matter will be investigated thoroughly, and the community will be kept in the loop on the facts surrounding the matter. If we hit 300 people can yell "THIS IS EVE-O!!!!!" and talk of the 300 mains who fought the great armies of alt.
Dominique Parr Taggart Transdimensional	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:24:00 - [2593] I think some people took this too seriously. Quote: Rule #5: Believe in conspiracies. The Truth is out there! This rule was the best. Good night everyone. I hope this matter can be discussed with much needed civility. I think enough stones have been thrown, maybe it's time to try a new tactic?
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:25:00 - [2594] What a train wreck.
Dasani Waters Kensei Mercenaries	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:25:00 - [2595] Originally by: 1337tong Originally by: Blacklight To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it. 2nd also i am very interested to see how ccp will resolve this issue. i can understand why sharkbait would probably be in a corp taking the director role for a short period of time and im sure anyone with a ounce of common sense could see that it was more then likely down to them making a petition in the first place and sharkbait was doing his job to fix their issue. There is a certain element in this game that somehow feels tarnished because of all this public aired laundry, weather it is true or not remains to be confirmed by ccp themselves. as for those who are looking to leave the game all i can say is maybe it is better for eve that you do go, if some of you feel the need to try and distroy what is left of eve to get at BoB. i do hope that this issue is resolved quickly for ccp's sake. as for those of you who feel that spamming the forums attention seeking is the way to go, i feel that ccp has been rather soft allowing this to continue. 2 strikes down so far, When and IF there is a 3rd strike i hope that ccp deals with this in a more aggressive approach then they have up till now. I sincerely hope CCP doesn't follow your advice. You are in effect saying that CCP should go so far as to silence customers who are complaining about not getting the service they were promised. Not only is such a course of action wrong, but it would motivate that "particular element of the player base" to lower the reputation of CCP and its products. Definitely not good for business.
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:25:00 - [2596] if you dont trust ccp just leave,thoes that do can stay. if you continue to ***** cry moan groan your only proving that your trying to ruin the game for others.
Valdis Corick GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:26:00 - [2597] Edited by: Valdis Corick on 27/05/2007 07:25:36 Edited by: Valdis Corick on 27/05/2007 07:25:14 Originally by: Tholarim I'd say bob is the one of the few with honour WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Seriously, that made me c-rack up. BoB has ALREADY been PROVEN that their members cheated. And now their own members are talking about being buddy buddy with CCP devs and getting special privelages (like instant response to their petitions via MSN) and yet their members STILL CLAIM TO HAVE HONOR? WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA CCP needs to do something fast to put a stop to this "old boys club" they have by allowing such blatant violations of ethical conduct to continue
Reithan Caldari Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:26:00 - [2598] Originally by: Kaoyama Ameko 3000 GET awaiting an update! You didn't hear? They're on vacation. They'll be back on Monday...maybe Tuesday. The beach was calling a LITTLE louder than their 180,000 paying customers.
Dubh Faol Widowmaker Innovations	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:27:00 - [2599] This is all a load of garbage, I'm sorry. Look at this- nobody really wants to give CCP a chance to explain something that seems to be highly innocous. They just want to go off half-cocked like morons. Which is fine, it's a fundamental human right to be a *****. The very fact of what the Goonies released is telling, in and of itself. Look what isn't* mentioned: any harm done to them or the corp involved. You all should know as well as I do that if they thought a single round of ammo was missing it would have been screamed over. None of that is there. The biggest "ammo" they have in there is a story from a former ISD member who openly contradicts himself in his statement. Either he's lying, or mistaken, but it blows his credibility. On the former ISD regarding the Arcs, I'll address simply as follows: anyone who's actually played a role playing game in real life (ie D&D, etc) knows that no matter how lax and liberal the GM is, he or she will always end up pushing you in certain directions and making, even if you tried to avoid it, certain things happen in the game to set certain triggers off for the next phase of the game, adventure, etc. To think that in something like EVE, in which so much money is invested, would be any different whatsoever, is naive at best and idiotic at worst. Regardless that some outcomes are pre-determined, the community at least has a chance to influence things, far more than they did in most MMOs, such as World of Warcraft or Everquest. Even Horizons, which offered large amounts of community influence as far as the genre goes, was far more restrictive and forced along than EVE-Online. As to members of BoB other players in other corps and alliances having friends up the chain in EVE... did you expect differently? For god's sake! A lot of these guys have played since day 1, since before that and in the beta, even some in the closed. It's natural that when you play a game, especially in early, developing phases, that sometimes people will form friendships between the "ranks" of player and employee. We've also seen that people who play the game sometimes get hired into the corporation at various levels, and we really shouldn't expect that just because person A is now hired, he's doing to delete the rest of the alphabet of friends from his MSN just because they're still 'merely' players. In most cases, no favouritism is shown, and often times these people are harder on their old friends than they are on 'normal' players. Does corruption happen? Obviously, yes at times it does. It'd happen regardless, however. Here's the two biggest concerns I have: #1 That CCP complete their investigation and relay the information generally to the playerbase. #2 That CCP deal with the disruptive influences, mostly members of Goonswarm, who spammed the crap out of the forums in what appears to be a blatant and orchestrated attempt to cause database crashes and bring down the servers. If this results in 100-3000 bans of accounts over the violation of the EULA/TOS, the law if it was even semi-orchestrated, and generally acceptable internet behaviour, then so be it- let the worst, most immature players be evicted from the game for the good of all. And have their ISPs notified of the activities which violates their service contracts. ___________________________________ Aut Pacem, Aut Bellum
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:28:00 - [2600] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Oohwha Schipperman Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are. That's a pretty transparent misreading of Stahlgren's post. As for "discrediting" BoB and CCP -- they would have to have some shred of credibility left in order to discredit them. The t20 incident pretty much took that off the table. Nothing has been misread. You know it looks bad for goons, trying to save your allies looks desperate. I was trolling by slamming an exaggerated and insane post with another even more exaggerated and insane post, the sarcasm is not really even intended- it's more like seasoning.
MrJordanIOI Minmatar The Lantern Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:28:00 - [2601] Edited by: MrJordanIOI on 27/05/2007 07:29:31 Ultima Online has seen similar scandals back then. It is time to act now and do something clever to ensure this situation is resolved, rather than ideologically bled out. Simple damage control wont do it, obviously BoB - being one the biggest online lobbies I know - simply has no other choice as to defend themselves. GOONs likewise. So - this thread has run its course it seems - Kudos to CCP that it was allowed to grow to 100 pages. Also obvious is that the game community has developed a memory and quite a sense of demanding justice. Please bring us such, ensure that this cannot happen again (the cheat part, not the finding out) and then let us move on. Thanks, IOI (Edited for spelling)
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:34:00 - [2602] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 07:37:08 Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 07:35:30 Originally by: Dubh Faol The very fact of what the Goonies released is telling, in and of itself. Look what isn't mentioned: any harm done to them or the corp involved. You all should know as well as I do that if they thought a single round of ammo was missing it would have been screamed over. None of that is there. So corruption is only worth mentioning if it directly effects a group? No skin off my back? What a cowardly way of viewing ethical responsibilities. Quote: Regardless that some outcomes are pre-determined, the community at least has a chance to influence things, far more than they did in most MMOs, such as World of Warcraft or Everquest. Even Horizons, which offered large amounts of community influence as far as the genre goes, was far more restrictive and forced along than EVE-Online. Hey, other things suck so it's okay that RPers were lied to here! Quote: As to members of BoB other players in other corps and alliances having friends up the chain in EVE... did you expect differently? For god's sake! A lot of these guys have played since day 1, since before that and in the beta, even some in the closed. It's natural that when you play a game, especially in early, developing phases, that sometimes people will form friendships between the "ranks" of player and employee. We've also seen that people who play the game sometimes get hired into the corporation at various levels, and we really shouldn't expect that just because person A is now hired, he's doing to delete the rest of the alphabet of friends from his MSN just because they're still 'merely' players. In most cases, no favouritism is shown, and often times these people are harder on their old friends than they are on 'normal' players. Does corruption happen? Obviously, yes at times it does. It'd happen regardless, however. I really did expect 'differently' (sic). Anywhere else I pay money I don't have to worry about unprofessional relationships like this. PERIOD! It doesn't even matter if favoritism is shown. The appearence of favoritism is unacceptable. Corruption is inevitable, so shut up? Is that how I'm supposed to interpret that last line? Quote: Here's the two biggest concerns I have: #1 That CCP complete their investigation and relay the information generally to the playerbase. #2 That CCP deal with the disruptive influences, mostly members of Goonswarm, who spammed the crap out of the forums in what appears to be a blatant and orchestrated attempt to cause database crashes and bring down the servers. If this results in 100-3000 bans of accounts over the violation of the EULA/TOS, the law if it was even semi-orchestrated, and generally acceptable internet behaviour, then so be it- let the worst, most immature players be evicted from the game for the good of all. And have their ISPs notified of the activities which violates their service contracts. Why were the forums spammed? Because goon's attempts to use in-game channels and to create ONE well-worded thread were deleted out of hand and ignored. Did the spamming suck? Yes. I want to know what you would have had them do in that situation. Also, I'd imagine that the servers were taken down of CCP's own voilition to delete all the posts and post this thread in an orderly manner- if they went down forcibly, would they have been back up in less than an hour? Serious question- I don't know much about that stuff. Actually, I'll be a bit less civil on that last point. Spamming a forum is not a DDOS, and wishing you had something to hold against the whistleblowers doesn't make it one.
Dubh Faol Widowmaker Innovations	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:38:00 - [2603] No, the very fact that nothing negative to them was done is telling. It means that CCP's story holds water, and they're trying to raise a ruckus to cover their own failings. That, sir, was my point. And no, corruption isn't acceptable, and we shouldn't like it, merely to realise that it is inevitable and deal with it when it arises. So far no corruption in this case has been pointed out or proven. Only in past cases, where CCP has acknowledged it and pledged that something would be done about it. ___________________________________ Aut Pacem, Aut Bellum
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:39:00 - [2604] Originally by: Incantare What a train wreck. guess the rapetrain derailed :P
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:41:00 - [2605] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:48:16 Originally by: Dominique Parr You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. Also all that pesky "evidence" stuff but hey, let's just ignore that for now. Edit: damnit, so close How about trust and credibility? Goons are a group of players that come from a community that takes pride in it's ability to destroy other communities. They achieve this through means such as DDOS attacks, forum "raids", hacking websites, and posting false information on other sites. The very same things you are attempting to do to the eve community. --- Dianabolic speaks about BoB's developer relationship. Lag Killer
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:42:00 - [2606] I'd like to pint out once it became mainstream no goon has even thought of making more needless threads. seems like proof they were just trying to get it to light. now that it is we wait. and if they don't give answers well... nothing is stopping the goons form doiung it again with alts free-tairl alts that get baned and then they will spam again and again and again local will never be useful again if they say the wrong thing. but the point is I'm glad the goons haven't been spaming. I undertand why you did. and I'm glad you did. do I agree with everything? no. but I understand your reasons
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:42:00 - [2607] Originally by: Dubh Faol No, the very fact that nothing negative to them was done is telling. It means that CCP's story holds water, and they're trying to raise a ruckus to cover their own failings. That, sir, was my point. And no, corruption isn't acceptable, and we shouldn't like it, merely to realise that it is inevitable and deal with it when it arises. So far no corruption in this case has been pointed out or proven. Only in past cases, where CCP has acknowledged it and pledged that something would be done about it. CCP's story holds water because the problems didn't effect the goons?? CCP hasn't even RELEASED a story yet! The one story that addressed 1/3 of the charges was said to be inaccurate by the CEOs of the corporation involved. Nothing negative was done to the goons, but negative stuff sure was done. I don't see how they COULDN'T report this stuff if they believe it to be true. I'd also argue that the admissions by BoB members in this thread that they have communication access to developers that other players don't is an example of unprofessional and unacceptable behavior, since you say that nothing has been 'proven.'
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:51:00 - [2608] Originally by: OverKill snip Simply put; who cares if they are cheating, who cares if they are not?!?! snip Are you serious? Are you fraking SERIOUS???? This is one of the most important events in Eve history. Cheating has alway been (at least officially) a bannable oofense. Are you really trying to say that someone, ANYONE, cheating in this game is acceptable? That just blows my mind. I really have nothing more to say. I'm speechless. I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:53:00 - [2609] Originally by: OverKill Ok (climbs on the box) time for me to chime in... ... Simply put; who cares if they are cheating, who cares if they are not?!?! There is no endgame in EVE. You can never "win" like so many people claim. EVE is designed to be an everlasting labor of love for her developers iand for those of us who play in this universe. It is an idea, a dream and a realization of that dream that persists whether you are online or not. They killed my dreadnaught! So what, buy another one. They have access to T2 BPOs! So what, invent some of your own and don't buy from them. They have 1000 0.0 systems and we only have 550! So what, how much room do you honestly think you need? I saw XYZ talking to GM SuperKalaFragaListic! So what, how does it REALLY affect you? --- Perhaps some of you need to take a good hard look at exactly what you are playing and what type of game you WANT to play. If you want an endgame then maybe you should be looking elsewhere. If you want to analyze, adapt and overcome then this is the place for you. The only issue that the players should be concerned with (most of you are, even hidden under 98 pages of somewhat murky waters) is the issue of a player being banned by a GM without a VERY thorough investigation. CCP does need to institute a policy in regards to banning, perhaps a two tier response system. GM 1 opts to ban a player for whatever reason, he needs someone else to execute said ban. (nuke missile keys anyone?!?!). Banning should require a fair bit of thought and investigation before its done! IF the allegations are true, then someone else has inside info, has insider connections and has a far more fluid set of options than I do to react to changes. This means the game is fundamentally biased to one set of players over another. This means that my monthly fee has less meaning than theirs. Presumably, the whole reason to play an online, multiplayer, risk based game is so we can compete with others. However, the presumption IS that I can 'win' at some points. Not because of SP... I'm only 2 years old, with only one account... I'll never equal Dr Caymus or be better than most at PVP. However... I expect the system to be fair. I don't expect the result to be; if I choose to compete with those better skilled and experienced than me, well I deserve a beating BUT, if the system is always rigged to benefit one group over me, I can have NO expectations of fairness at ANY point, because there is always a part of the game totally outside of my control that I can neither control nor predict. All I can do is roll the dice and hope that the gods favor me. This is not how Eve is/was presented. If poker was 'rigged' to favor a group over another, you would have a different demographic playing it. Probably the Roulette crowd There is an obvious difference, is there not? It's not that it's unfair, it's that it's falsely presented. I.E. I play poker. If someone were to suddenly beat my 4 of a kind with a pair AND WIN THAT HAND, I wouldn't be happy. Indeed, I'd never play with that sod ever again and I would call him a cheater. Why? Poker has rules, even if there is never a final hand you can win and thus win Poker categorically. Similarly, Eve is supposed to have rules. If those rules don't apply to everyone, why play? It's represented as having a fundamental coherance, so it should live up to that billing. Plain and simple. There is no reason to pay for access to a rigged game, whatever it's called. Perhaps you could tell me why you are content to do so? I'm serious and I actually am curious. We don't have the same intuitions, and your point about 'imagination' isn't really expressed fully. For me, it's not about having a better <insert e-peen here>, it's about having the opportunity to try for any goal allowed by the game mechanics. I guess I play a game to avoid the 'it's not what you do (necessarily!) but whom you know'. God knows RL is full of that crap. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:54:00 - [2610] Seems to me Goons are quite a bit more trustworthy than BoB. Goons do everything in game by legit game mechanics. They don't call in devs via MSN nor do they need to blatantly lie about their opposition. BoB have been trying to deflect the issues in this thread left and right by attacking the messengers. This isn't about goonswarm, its about CCP and their cozy relationship with BoB. Isn't it weird that the goons are the good guys?
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:56:00 - [2611] Originally by: Hrin Isn't it weird that the goons are the good guys? dunno if I'd go that far
UmnaHun	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:56:00 - [2612] CCP! Remove your employees from the game, and give better training for them or your business will be ruined! You must decide: losing only hundreds or losing the faith of all the players! You are all living from us! You should listen to the crowd! The crowd want "blood" the blood of BOB and your corrupt developers & GMs! DO SOMETHING, UNTIL WE ALL PUSH THE "BIG RED" BUTTON!!!
Nikos Iscariot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:58:00 - [2613] Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 07:57:39 Originally by: Subflict postin replyin constructively
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:00:00 - [2614] I am a very, very loyal CCP supporter... and it really pains me to admit that things have gotten to the state where the best possible solution if for CCP employee's at any level to not be allowed to play on the main server, and that BOB be disbanded and all if its assets liquidated and equally distributed to its members. I don't really see people forgiving this any other way... then again, I seriously doubt that either of those things will happen either. I'm not very happy at this moment.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:00:00 - [2615] Edited by: Moving Along on 27/05/2007 07:59:08 Originally by: Hrin Seems to me Goons are quite a bit more trustworthy than BoB. Goons do everything in game by legit game mechanics. They don't call in devs via MSN nor do they need to blatantly lie about their opposition. BoB have been trying to deflect the issues in this thread left and right by attacking the messengers. This isn't about goonswarm, its about CCP and their cozy relationship with BoB. Isn't it weird that the goons are the good guys? Don't go into "legit game mechanics". Goons have been known to crash nodes on purpose. That's not what I (or any intelligent) person call a game mechanic. I'm not bashing goons here, just stating my point of view. Originally by: UmmaHun DO SOMETHING, UNTIL WE ALL PUSH THE "BIG RED" BUTTON!!! Speak for yourself
Dasani Waters Kensei Mercenaries	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:01:00 - [2616] Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Bears repeating again. This is the concern that I seem to share with many other customers. Am I paying $20 a month for a virtual environment where everyone is bound by the same rules? Or am I paying for a virtual playground where only people with the right "connections" get to play demigod?
Treelox Amarr Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:01:00 - [2617] Originally by: Hrin Isn't it weird that the goons are the good guys? Or is it maybe just a bit of social engineering to make us think that? Neither side in this latest event has provided any proof of the matter one way or the other that couldnt have been fabricated. I find it especially amusing that this "open letter to CCP" was released after normal CCP business hours on a Friday, so CCP would be at a disadvantage to release any public statement until Monday. Before we all get our undies in a twist, try to realise that its the weekend and them CCP bigwigs might be off duty. Wait till the monday business day has come and gone before we all fly off the handle. -- Sadly Not many who are still following this thread will even read nor comprehend my post, and most will just lable me as a supporter of one side or the other. /me sigh -- FTEK \| Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Omber Zombie's Wet Work
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:04:00 - [2618] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Hrin Isn't it weird that the goons are the good guys? Or is it maybe just a bit of social engineering to make us think that? Neither side in this latest event has provided any proof of the matter one way or the other that couldnt have been fabricated. I find it especially amusing that this "open letter to CCP" was released after normal CCP business hours on a Friday, so CCP would be at a disadvantage to release any public statement until Monday. Before we all get our undies in a twist, try to realise that its the weekend and them CCP bigwigs might be off duty. Wait till the monday business day has come and gone before we all fly off the handle. -- Sadly Not many who are still following this thread will even read nor comprehend my post, and most will just lable me as a supporter of one side or the other. /me sigh Sadly CCP doesn't seem to think it's important enough to come in on a Saturday to fix the problem, so I guess it just isn't that important that it get dealt with now.
Nikos Iscariot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:04:00 - [2619] Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:05:01 Originally by: Moving Along Don't go into "legit game mechanics". Goons have been known to crash nodes on purpose. That's not what I (or any intelligent) person call a game mechanic. I'm not bashing goons here, just stating my point of view. I remember that time we self destructed 1200 smartbombing rookie ships with bookmarks in the cargo around a titan at the undock in Jita while bumping freighters and crashing the game by talking in local. Good times.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:04:00 - [2620] Originally by: Dasani Waters Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, snip snip for easy readin Bears repeating again. This is the concern that I seem to share with many other customers. Am I paying $20 a month for a virtual environment where everyone is bound by the same rules? Or am I paying for a virtual playground where only people with the right "connections" get to play demigod? That is true with any MMO; everyone is bound by the same rules, people just choose to break them sometimes. Someone will ALWAYS have the right connections, don't delude yourself there. Also, I don't think you pay $20 a month.
HR Paperstacks	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:04:00 - [2621] Originally by: Dubh Faol As to members of BoB other players in other corps and alliances having friends up the chain in EVE... did you expect differently? For god's sake! A lot of these guys have played since day 1, since before that and in the beta, even some in the closed. It's natural that when you play a game, especially in early, developing phases, that sometimes people will form friendships between the "ranks" of player and employee. We've also seen that people who play the game sometimes get hired into the corporation at various levels, and we really shouldn't expect that just because person A is now hired, he's doing to delete the rest of the alphabet of friends from his MSN just because they're still 'merely' players. In most cases, no favouritism is shown, and often times these people are harder on their old friends than they are on 'normal' players. Does corruption happen? Obviously, yes at times it does. It'd happen regardless, however. The point is that it has happened. The results from the last "investigation" were hush hush, what's to say the same won't happen with this one? While I agree with your argument about treating your older customers a bit better, you never completely alienate your new customers. If you and I go into a supermarket, and you've been shopping there for three years, you might get a coupon or two that I don't get. You might get a handshake from the manager. He's not going to give you a free truck full of groceries. You're not the equivalent of an open mouthed kiss from a pretty girl (read: metaphor edited for forum usage, read between the lines). He's definetely not gonna go fire an employee within an hour without investigating the incident because you sent him a text message, 'cause he's in your fav five. Originally by: Dubh Faol Here's the two biggest concerns I have: #1 That CCP complete their investigation and relay the information generally to the playerbase. #2 That CCP deal with the disruptive influences, mostly members of Goonswarm, who spammed the crap out of the forums in what appears to be a blatant and orchestrated attempt to cause database crashes and bring down the servers. If this results in 100-3000 bans of accounts over the violation of the EULA/TOS, the law if it was even semi-orchestrated, and generally acceptable internet behaviour, then so be it- let the worst, most immature players be evicted from the game for the good of all. And have their ISPs notified of the activities which violates their service contracts. Oh, I'm sorry. Because we have a lot of members in our alliance who are upset with the way a company is handling matters and they decide to post, then we're evil spammers. You know, I hear the same thing over and over everytime people talk about Goons, "It's so many of them." "They are just trying to crash the node." "They are trying to spam the forums to kill the servers." Give. It. Up. I wonder if you read what you posted when you said "for the good of all." You mean the good of you, 'cause obviously if someone is getting banned, then your solution isn't good for them now is it? :pysduck:
Kanitsu Hiyaboosa	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:05:00 - [2622] Originally by: UmnaHun CCP! Remove your employees from the game, and give better training for them or your business will be ruined! You must decide: losing only hundreds or losing the faith of all the players! You are all living from us! You should listen to the crowd! The crowd want "blood" the blood of BOB and your corrupt developers & GMs! DO SOMETHING, UNTIL WE ALL PUSH THE "BIG RED" BUTTON!!! Ay men to that, I left the game last time this crap happened, now its happening again. Typical of BOB to cheat again and let CCP just turn a blind EYE , well CCP i hope like hell you loose big time over this, ur little pet BOB has grown into a monster that has finally bitten off more than it can chew, well i hope it hits you right in the hip pocket and cost you big dollars. This is the only way you understand, and now as im writing, this scandal has gone out to hundreds of game dev sites and forums. COME and join eve and play a game where not only do the DEVS take your cash every month, but we will cheat as well to make sure we WIN. Im totally disgusted at this, if tranquility was a living thing it would set its self on fire and burn to the ground in defiance. you make me sick DEVS
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:05:00 - [2623] I can only reiterate what I stated at the time of the t20-incident: As a RL professional and certified crisis planner and crisis management leader, I'm unfortunately used to poor crisis management, especially poor crisis communication management. However, the continusly poor performance of CCP in crisis communication is astonishing, appearently there was nothing learned from the t20-disaster. Making a failure once is everybodies right, making it twice is dumb. This adds to my still very small stock of examples of dumb crisis management, which I can use for my crisis management trainings. Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:06:00 - [2624] Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:03:17 JV1V ... end of story
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:06:00 - [2625] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stahlregen Originally by: Dominique Parr Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:28:49 Originally by: OverKill words You'll have to help me out here, I'm not quite seeing why the fact that a game does not have an endgame makes cheating and developer misconduct something not worth caring about. You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. And before you go saying "They did it in the past." (A lame arguement if you ask me.) Since when does one person's guilt encompass an entire group? I'm pretty sure since bob tried to grief goonswarm out of the game for having a signature on their own private forums that we now get to do that to them. So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are. You're saying that Goons targetting CCP for things that don't relate to BoB at all is somehow...an attack to get back at BoB? You're not helping your case much here. No i'm not, Stahlregen is. I'm agreefng with him, and it's pretty obvious he's right. It's just a way for the goons to get back at BoB. All for the lulz huh. READ WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!!! You seem to be acknowledging that attacking CCP is the SAME as attacking BoB, which is what goonies and friends have been insinuating all along! Is this what you actually mean to say??! damn, that post is esthetically quite pleasing. Just thought I'd stop my bickering for a moment to comment Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:06:00 - [2626] Ok lets look at the allegations: #1: the GM/DEV/CCP staff/whatever joining a corp making himself a director and then quitting without informing the corp in question. Was this spying, was it maintinence, was it response to a petition? I dont know but it should have been easy enough for Sharkbite to nip the issue in the bud if he when asked simply told the corp what he was doing there. Additionally who was the airbrain GM that deleted the corps petition to find out? At this point there is no real evidence of somthing being wrong but there is plenty of signs that we should worry and demand an in depth answer. No, it is not a non issue that has been blown out of proportion by the Goonswarm. It is a minor issue that has been blown out of proportion (possibly) by the actions of CCP. #2: The allegations of insider info leaking out in events. This is a very serious charge and if true could have devastating effects on the game community. I have no way of knowing what is true here so I will give CCP a few days to investigate the allegations. Sadly past experience has supplied an ample ammount of circumstantial evidence that there has been insider info leaking out. Thus if this issue is not adressed in depth CCP will loose more of their credibility and lets face it, after the T20 scandal that is not somthing CCP has in abundence. #3: The ISD pilot banning. As far as I undersatand it ISD should go to where stuff is happening, the odd thing (if indeed true) is how it all has transpired. Now I have no Idea of what actually happened but between the ISD pilots statement and what people have written/admitted here it looks very grim for CCP, I am very much looking forward to hearing an official comment from CCP on this issue. Finally then, I have no plans atm to quit EvE, Im not involved in 0.0 warfare on a personal level and I dont really get involved much in the storylines. However the T20 scandal seriously shook my belief in this game, not so much what T20 did but what the response from CCP was. I am now in the same position as I was then, my belief in the game has been shaken seriously but now it is upp to CCP to decide how well I recover from it. If its another coverup and whitewash then I may tip over the edge. We need to get the claims illuminated and thourougly examined and the community must this time be allowed to find out what became of it.
Nikos Iscariot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:08:00 - [2627] Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:06:44 Originally by: Moving Along JV1V ... end of story That wasn't much of a story.
Kayl Breinhar Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:08:00 - [2628] Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 27/05/2007 08:07:39 Originally by: Ranger 1 I am a very, very loyal CCP supporter... and it really pains me to admit that things have gotten to the state where the best possible solution if for CCP employee's at any level to not be allowed to play on the main server, and that BOB be disbanded and all if its assets liquidated and equally distributed to its members. Uhm...no? I'm on one of the extreme sides of this issue, and I wouldn't want the war to end this way. Just because a lot of officers of BoB may/may not have unbuffered access to Dev/GMs outside of the game doesn't mean I want to see players who just want to play the game like me penalized on a level such as this. And yes, even the accused. Fairness. That's all that I want. The knowledge that I can go into a battle with BoB and only have to worry about the traditional dangers - doomsdays, fighter blobs, and faction/officer modules - not outside intelligence and/or help that no one else is entitled to.
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:10:00 - [2629] Originally by: UmnaHun The crowd want "blood" the blood of BOB and your corrupt developers & GMs! I think you know where they live. go get some
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:10:00 - [2630] Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:06:44 Originally by: Moving Along JV1V ... end of story That wasn't much of a story. You should probably ask your buddies in your alliance. Maybe they will tell you what their tactics were to clear the supercamp in JV1V.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:10:00 - [2631] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 08:10:10 Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:03:17 JV1V ... end of story Did goons do it to crash the node or did they just post something that said "FIGHT TONIGHT!! COME KICK ASS!!!!" and the game couldn't handle it? Inquiring minds want to know It's also not Goon's fault if LV morons get resetting themselves to the end of the queue by relogging when they got kicked and couldn't get back on.
Tod Klemp Gallente K-Street Project	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:10:00 - [2632] Originally by: Ranger 1 I am a very, very loyal CCP supporter... and it really pains me to admit that things have gotten to the state where the best possible solution if for CCP employee's at any level to not be allowed to play on the main server, and that BOB be disbanded and all if its assets liquidated and equally distributed to its members. I don't really see people forgiving this any other way... then again, I seriously doubt that either of those things will happen either. I'm not very happy at this moment. translation: bob's owned us ingame so please defeat them for us
Treelox Amarr Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:12:00 - [2633] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Sadly CCP doesn't seem to think it's important enough to come in on a Saturday to fix the problem, so I guess it just isn't that important that it get dealt with now. Maybe they have, but sometimes a serious investigation, into events that happened months past takes some time. -- FTEK \| Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Omber Zombie's Wet Work
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:13:00 - [2634] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 08:12:34 Originally by: Tod Klemp Originally by: Ranger 1 I am a very, very loyal CCP supporter... and it really pains me to admit that things have gotten to the state where the best possible solution if for CCP employee's at any level to not be allowed to play on the main server, and that BOB be disbanded and all if its assets liquidated and equally distributed to its members. I don't really see people forgiving this any other way... then again, I seriously doubt that either of those things will happen either. I'm not very happy at this moment. translation: bob's owned us ingame so please defeat them for us How does this involve defeating BoB???!! 2/3 of it doesn't involve BoB at all and the other 1/3 involves BoB but all the wrongdoing was on the side of CCP? This argument doesn't hold water with me- what about the goonies releasing this on here will help them in their in-game war? Serious quesiton- someone please respond. Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Sadly CCP doesn't seem to think it's important enough to come in on a Saturday to fix the problem, so I guess it just isn't that important that it get dealt with now. Maybe they have, but sometimes a serious investigation, into events that happened months past takes some time. True
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:13:00 - [2635] The core of this issue is still hiring some incompetent employees who ruins customers trust in the product. There has been many enough instances of this now whether is Orange Species who does it or the RKK leadership who gossips about what tidbits ccp employees have leaked to them. The corruption just needs to ***** stop whoever is the beneficiary and I personally think that more entities might have access to this kind of information. It's just that right now BOB is kinda under the spotlight like any entity at the top. The offenders needs to be banned. And if the beneficiary has been active in obtaining this information he needs to be banned too. No need to play ***** innocent on this issue. It should be clear enough what's going on here. That this even has cropped up as an issue reeks of incompetence from Iceland.
Nikos Iscariot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:13:00 - [2636] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Did goons do it to crash the node or did they just post something that said "FIGHT TONIGHT!! COME KICK ASS!!!!" and the game couldn't handle it? Inquiring minds want to know When someone came into the club house and said "Hay guys lets go abort a baby titan!", few if any active pilots decided to stay back and mine space rocks.
Carolina Lunatta GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:16:00 - [2637] Originally by: Hrin Isn't it weird that the goons are the good guys? It's more surreal for us, trust me.
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:16:00 - [2638] Originally by: Tod Klemp translation: bob's owned us ingame so please defeat them for us Stupid punk post with your main. Get on CAOD and boast about your accomplishments there this is a discussion about something totally else.
Isis Dea Minmatar Aspi-Vore Xenosaders North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:17:00 - [2639] All I can say is: dang... My love for Eve just took a blow to the groin and after "only" 2 years of playing, I'm starting to feel like none of it meant anything in the ingame world. ___
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:17:00 - [2640] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 08:21:55 Edit: double post
HR Paperstacks	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:18:00 - [2641] Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 08:10:10 Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:03:17 JV1V ... end of story Did goons do it to crash the node or did they just post something that said "FIGHT TONIGHT!! COME KICK ASS!!!!" and the game couldn't handle it? Inquiring minds want to know It's also not Goon's fault if LV morons get resetting themselves to the end of the queue by relogging when they got kicked and couldn't get back on. Actually, there was no way for them to end up in the queue near the front because the goons on the nearby node were able to get in first by spamming the jump button. To respond to your question; they did do it to crash the node. Thats why there were tons of noobships that jumped in. Why are you arguing the FACT that they did this? A GM even acknowledged it. At the risk of derailing a thread, were you there? 'cause I was, and I stared a black screen for hours that night. I can tell you for certain, there were a TON of real ships there. Where all those noobships were, I don't know. I can also tell you that the ~15 large bubbles on the gate didn't help the node at all either. Participate in a battle to complain about it.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:19:00 - [2642] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Sadly CCP doesn't seem to think it's important enough to come in on a Saturday to fix the problem, so I guess it just isn't that important that it get dealt with now. Maybe they have, but sometimes a serious investigation, into events that happened months past takes some time. That, and it's a holiday weekend for them. I'm quite willing to give them a bit of time to iron this out. Last time my boss asked me to come in to the office on a long weekend, I just laughed and made a beeline for my car. So long as they give an honest effort and give a better response than "nothing to see here, move along", I'm willing to listen. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Isis Dea Minmatar Aspi-Vore Xenosaders North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:20:00 - [2643] And what of what I'm told of these mass ingame bannings against folks bearing links to such allegations against CCP? ___
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:21:00 - [2644] Originally by: HR Paperstacks Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 08:10:10 Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:03:17 JV1V ... end of story Did goons do it to crash the node or did they just post something that said "FIGHT TONIGHT!! COME KICK ASS!!!!" and the game couldn't handle it? Inquiring minds want to know It's also not Goon's fault if LV morons get resetting themselves to the end of the queue by relogging when they got kicked and couldn't get back on. Actually, there was no way for them to end up in the queue near the front because the goons on the nearby node were able to get in first by spamming the jump button. To respond to your question; they did do it to crash the node. Thats why there were tons of noobships that jumped in. Why are you arguing the FACT that they did this? A GM even acknowledged it. At the risk of derailing a thread, were you there? 'cause I was, and I stared a black screen for hours that night. I can tell you for certain, there were a TON of real ships there. Where all those noobships were, I don't know. I can also tell you that the ~15 large bubbles on the gate didn't help the node at all either. Participate in a battle to complain about it. Yes, I was there. There is a video showing all the noobships and frigs jumping in. Not a single ship larger than a frig jumped in until AFTER the node crash.
Alexander Torinian	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:22:00 - [2645] Originally by: General Windypops Edited by: General Windypops on 26/05/2007 00:01:24 Well I guess today is the day that Goons went too far, spammed the forums to the point they were taken offline and lost the credibility of the Eve community. Pretty pathetic to try to debase an entire game with so many uncorped alts simply because of their desire to win a forum war. If you read between the lines of the drama bomb there's not a shred of actual evidence whatsoever. A sad day indeed. I just wish Goons could have conducted themselves with a bit more honour, instead of ruining the game for the entire eve community to further their own political ends. Deliberately spoiling / derailing / spamming every single in game channel and legitimate thread on the forums was a step too far. Learn to respect your community, Goonswarm. If you want to be treated with credibility behave in a way that people respect, don't grief the game for innocent players. wow are you misinformed, their is evidence and major articles outside of game. This is something they can't hush up no matter how hard they try, I am disapointed myself
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:22:00 - [2646] Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: HR Paperstacks Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 08:10:10 Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:03:17 JV1V ... end of story Did goons do it to crash the node or did they just post something that said "FIGHT TONIGHT!! COME KICK ASS!!!!" and the game couldn't handle it? Inquiring minds want to know It's also not Goon's fault if LV morons get resetting themselves to the end of the queue by relogging when they got kicked and couldn't get back on. Actually, there was no way for them to end up in the queue near the front because the goons on the nearby node were able to get in first by spamming the jump button. To respond to your question; they did do it to crash the node. Thats why there were tons of noobships that jumped in. Why are you arguing the FACT that they did this? A GM even acknowledged it. At the risk of derailing a thread, were you there? 'cause I was, and I stared a black screen for hours that night. I can tell you for certain, there were a TON of real ships there. Where all those noobships were, I don't know. I can also tell you that the ~15 large bubbles on the gate didn't help the node at all either. Participate in a battle to complain about it. Yes, I was there. There is a video showing all the noobships and frigs jumping in. Not a single ship larger than a frig jumped in until AFTER the node crash. When did a GM acknowledge it? Lots of goons ARE noobs- how do you know it just wasn't goons trying to get into the fight? How does this square up with what the goon above this said? I know they did cause the crash, it just seems unlikely to me that they did it intentionally. If you have real answers to these, I'm honestly interested- please don't take my skepticism for disbelief.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar The Suicide Kings FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:23:00 - [2647] Taking the weekend to determine what happened, though the community wants full disclosure 20s after the incident is reported, is probably necessary to get all the information possible. Regardless of the outcome, the damage is done. I remember my father telling me at age 10 what "Integrity" meant, Quote: "Doing the right thing even when no one is looking." A few CCP Employees missed this lesson, poisoning community trust. The only way now to salvage it's reputation and prevent future allegations is to either completely prevent CCP Employee Player Characters from accessing the GM/DEV tools or completely terminate all CCP Employee Player Characters leaving them only their "Official" CCP GM/DEV characters and strictly monitoring GM/DEV tool usage and communications between GM/DEV characters and the community. THUKKER -Be Paranoid
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:23:00 - [2648] I went to try Vendetta Online last night. While doing tutorials and asking some questions in chat, people asked me where I found out about the game. I told them eve-online forums. Just about everyone there bursted out laughing, and welcomed me even more. Guess why...
Leodeus	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:25:00 - [2649] Originally by: BlueOrca Originally by: Promethian child We just cancelled 15 accounts no renewal untill we get an decent answer CCP . Only 15? I know you can do better then that! Cancel all your accounts! It's clearly stated that flamebating is not allowed in this thread. BlueOrca, your last half dozen or so posts have no content other than to stir the conflict with other members and lack any intellectual thought whatsoever. Just because this is a game, doesn't mean we all have to act like kids. Thank you.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:26:00 - [2650] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi When did a GM acknowledge it? Lots of goons ARE noobs- how do you know it just wasn't goons trying to get into the fight? How does this square up with what the goon above this said? I know they did cause the crash, it just seems unlikely to me that they did it intentionally. If you have real answers to these, I'm honestly interested- please don't take my skepticism for disbelief. The GM acknowledged through a petition. I know lots of goons are noobs. Why would you send in waves of frigs until just after the node crashes? It was intentional. I'm not complaining at all about it. What's done is done. I'm just saying that goons aren't as innocent as the poster, who I originally replied to, was claiming.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:28:00 - [2651] The allegations that Goons were intentionally trying to crash the JV1V node is pretty laughable. I was on the op that night, and when performance started suffering Goon FCs were pleading for smaller ships to stop trying to log in. Node crashes and lag are INCREDIBLY unpredictable and nearly impossible to manipulate or exploit for an advantage. I realize that anyone posting "lolo goonies exploitz remember jv1v!!!" is either trolling or stupid, but I just want to make this clear: when you're attacking or defending a Titan-building POS, everyone wants to be there. In JV1V, LV's defense alone would have strained the node. Any sort of serious attack was going to crash that node, with no malicious intent needed. I'm not pointing blame at LV either; actually, events like that simply illustrate how broken POS and sov mechanics are and how much they can encourage blobbing (even with the "anti-blob" Titan in the fray). But as a rank-and-file guy flying with RSF and allies that night, I got NO indication that Goons were deliberately trying to crash the node -- quite the opposite.
Avalloc GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:28:00 - [2652] Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:03:17 JV1V ... end of story You mean when LV had a TITAN being cooked in a POS? LV made the diplomatic error of aggressing multiple Alliances and they all wanted that Titan destroyed. It isn't the fault of defenders or attackers that the servers couldn't handle the load. Actually wait, it was LV's fault. ****ing off that many Alliances was a grave error. You can't expect to have a fair field when there are 400+ defenders in system already. Was CCP supposed to say "only 400 attackers may enter, no more." Oh wait, they did that once too. And it destroyed the invader's ability to have a fair chance. That wasn't an intentional node crashing.
Vasili Z Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:32:00 - [2653] Edited by: Vasili Z on 27/05/2007 08:32:11 This entire thing is a huge zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... Goonswarm needs to stfu, for once. ---- Everything I say represents my corporation and their views.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:33:00 - [2654] Originally by: Vasili Z This entire thing is a huge zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... Thanks for this insightful contribution. It's good to see that you care about integrity and fair play, regardless of who is harmed or benefited.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:34:00 - [2655] Originally by: Angelus Damelon The allegations that Goons were intentionally trying to crash the JV1V node is pretty laughable. I was on the op that night, and when performance started suffering Goon FCs were pleading for smaller ships to stop trying to log in. Node crashes and lag are INCREDIBLY unpredictable and nearly impossible to manipulate or exploit for an advantage. I realize that anyone posting "lolo goonies exploitz remember jv1v!!!" is either trolling or stupid, but I just want to make this clear: when you're attacking or defending a Titan-building POS, everyone wants to be there. In JV1V, LV's defense alone would have strained the node. Any sort of serious attack was going to crash that node, with no malicious intent needed. I'm not pointing blame at LV either; actually, events like that simply illustrate how broken POS and sov mechanics are and how much they can encourage blobbing (even with the "anti-blob" Titan in the fray). But as a rank-and-file guy flying with RSF and allies that night, I got NO indication that Goons were deliberately trying to crash the node -- quite the opposite. They are NOT nearly impossible to manipulate. I don't call it an exploit; I call it unsportsmanlike. LV's defense wasn't actually straining the node to any serious extent. The massive wave after wave of frigs (and JUST frigs) is what crashed the node, thus allowing the full goon fleet to make it into the node before any LV player could have logged in, thanks to bad mechanics. I will agree with you on one point though; POS and sov mechanics need lovin.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:40:00 - [2656] Originally by: Tholarim You don't see what's so sad about this whole ordeal? Everyone in the alliance warfare side of things plays this game to win. The goons have realised that they cannot win by beating us ingame, simply becus we beat them on the field. I'm sure this will be blaimed on devh4x and cheating and all sorts, but in the end no amount of cheating would make a ** alliance a really good one. Not without it being blatently obvious. Your post is pointless. Not everyone plays the game to "win" it (after 'winning' at work 8 hours per day, some people want to have ***** FUN - is it that hard to grasp?) Your perception that people are upset because BoB is winning is flawed. People are upset because CCP acts like a bunch of kids, not like professional business. At the end of the day, the fact BoB members are so 'defensive' (even if this was not about BoB, but about CCP) about everything is... well, interesting. Btw - have you ever used (or are still using) out-of-game means of communication directly with CCP employees? Thanks.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:40:00 - [2657] Originally by: Moving Along Edited by: Moving Along on 27/05/2007 08:17:53 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 08:10:10 Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:03:17 JV1V ... end of story Did goons do it to crash the node or did they just post something that said "FIGHT TONIGHT!! COME KICK ASS!!!!" and the game couldn't handle it? Inquiring minds want to know It's also not Goon's fault if LV morons get resetting themselves to the end of the queue by relogging when they got kicked and couldn't get back on. Actually, there was no way for them to end up in the queue near the front because the goons on the nearby node were able to get in first by spamming the jump button. To respond to your question; they did do it to crash the node. Thats why there were tons of noobships that jumped in. Why are you arguing the FACT that they did this? A GM even acknowledged it. Btw, its a pity that you result to name calling. I said before I wasn't bashing goons. You are a sad person :( What's funny is you believe this without being there. You believe this because the moment it happened LV started posting on the forums that they were sending in "T1 frigs and cruisers". What LV never figured out (probably because their alliance fell the hell apart after wards) was how many fighters died in that first wave that they allegedly "kicked the ass of". Now I forget here, how much is a fighter compared to the T1 cruiser killing it?
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:41:00 - [2658] Originally by: boeses frettchen Originally by: Vasili Z Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Vasili Z This entire thing is a huge zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... Thanks for this insightful contribution. It's good to see that you care about integrity and fair play, regardless of who is harmed or benefited. Ya, because you were harmed so much, your entire reason to play is ruined, you better quit now. You will never recover from this, ever. God, go play a new spaceship game.... You sir fail to see the point of this thread, its not bout BoB/goons and BoB fanbois defending BoB, its about game mechanics that allow such allegations. i clearly hope ccp realizes that they have to solve this once and for all. Telling all ppl to quit game that are not happy with this stuff makes u look like a fool tbh To mostly every point in this post, I agree.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:41:00 - [2659] Originally by: Zenst Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:05:01 Originally by: Moving Along Don't go into "legit game mechanics". Goons have been known to crash nodes on purpose. That's not what I (or any intelligent) person call a game mechanic. I'm not bashing goons here, just stating my point of view. I remember that time we self destructed 1200 smartbombing rookie ships with bookmarks in the cargo around a titan at the undock in Jita while bumping freighters and crashing the game by talking in local. Good times. See if you were in BOB you would be frontpage on slashdot by now and probably having peeps spamming Jita to get people to fly your flag. I have a life, and I dont have MSN so. Have fun. Are you trying to claim Dianabolic was making a joke when he admitted BoB has contact with the devs that the rest of Eve doesn't?
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:42:00 - [2660] Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:48:16 Originally by: Dominique Parr You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. Also all that pesky "evidence" stuff but hey, let's just ignore that for now. Edit: damnit, so close How about trust and credibility? Goons are a group of players that come from a community that takes pride in it's ability to destroy other communities. They achieve this through means such as DDOS attacks, forum "raids", hacking websites, and posting false information on other sites. The very same things you are attempting to do to the eve community. Every one of these things would be worthy of a permaban on the SA forums. You don't know what you're talking about.
Kukki Gallente ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:43:00 - [2661] Originally by: FatHed CCP, since you keep moderating this, that shows you are reading. Look, you've decieved your customers. You've added to the EULA no way for people who have already paid to get any of the prepaid time back. There is a simple solution to get this thread to stop. POST THE CHAT LOGS, it shouldn't take long, so stop delaying. It takes a time to change these Chatlogs that CCP stands in a better light in the end. So give em their time they need. _________________________________________________________________ Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:44:00 - [2662] Originally by: Kukki Originally by: FatHed CCP, since you keep moderating this, that shows you are reading. Look, you've decieved your customers. You've added to the EULA no way for people who have already paid to get any of the prepaid time back. There is a simple solution to get this thread to stop. POST THE CHAT LOGS, it shouldn't take long, so stop delaying. It takes a time to change these Chatlogs that CCP stands in a better light in the end. So give em their time they need. You sir, are a troll.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:47:00 - [2663] Edited by: Mr Friendly on 27/05/2007 08:49:23 Originally by: Stitcher I think the bigger problem I have with this thing is not that it happened, but actually the player response. This is a situation where one or two members of CCP have operated outside the allowed remit of their job, and yet this somehow calls into doubt the integrity of CCP as a whole? Yup. Sure does. Sorry to inject some sanity and basic business ethics into the discussion. The company is responsible for the actions of its employees. Period. If a GM bans me for no good reason, I deserve to have my ban lifted. If t20 gives BoB some t2 bpos, damned right CCP is held accountable. Chaos ensues otherwise, m8. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Alexander Torinian	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:50:00 - [2664] Originally by: Glengrant Hm, somebody with internal access needs to use tactics like making himself a member, with the high risk of being noticed? How does that make sense? If I were a cheating dev I'd just do a quick SQL query on the DB, get the data without anybody ever noticing it. And why is what CCP says always fishy, while what others say is assumed to be the whole truth? Also the idea that CCP actively helps BoB is plain silly. It's not in their interest to have one dominating alliance - much less the one they are already accused of being in bed with. I'm sure a couple of abuses did happen - but I trust that CCP isn't nearly stupid enough to destroy their own business by allowing their employees to cheat all the time. Take off your tinfoiil hats and don't always assume the worst. You might get a more sensible picture of things. just my 2 cents ah but that's the problem, people will always try to believe the best in a game they like to play, this doesn't mena however that the developers believe the same thing...
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:52:00 - [2665] Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Moving Along Edited by: Moving Along on 27/05/2007 08:17:53 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 08:10:10 Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:03:17 JV1V ... end of story Did goons do it to crash the node or did they just post something that said "FIGHT TONIGHT!! COME KICK ASS!!!!" and the game couldn't handle it? Inquiring minds want to know It's also not Goon's fault if LV morons get resetting themselves to the end of the queue by relogging when they got kicked and couldn't get back on. Actually, there was no way for them to end up in the queue near the front because the goons on the nearby node were able to get in first by spamming the jump button. To respond to your question; they did do it to crash the node. Thats why there were tons of noobships that jumped in. Why are you arguing the FACT that they did this? A GM even acknowledged it. Btw, its a pity that you result to name calling. I said before I wasn't bashing goons. You are a sad person :( What's funny is you believe this without being there. You believe this because the moment it happened LV started posting on the forums that they were sending in "T1 frigs and cruisers". What LV never figured out (probably because their alliance fell the hell apart after wards) was how many fighters died in that first wave that they allegedly "kicked the ass of". Now I forget here, how much is a fighter compared to the T1 cruiser killing it? you clearly wherent there so dont talk B*llSh!t ->My Vids<-
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:52:00 - [2666] Originally by: Moving Along They are NOT nearly impossible to manipulate. I don't call it an exploit; I call it unsportsmanlike. LV's defense wasn't actually straining the node to any serious extent. The massive wave after wave of frigs (and JUST frigs) is what crashed the node, thus allowing the full goon fleet to make it into the node before any LV player could have logged in, thanks to bad mechanics. They weren't JUST frigs. I know, because I spent 40 minutes at the JV1V gate in M-R in the middle of a big heap of ships trying to jump in. There were a lot of frigs, because Goonfleet always has a large contingent of newer players and that's probably all they could afford to fly at the time. But there were plenty of battleships and battlecruisers and other ships there too. As for LV being unable to log on, perhaps the initial order to restart Eve instead of waiting out the black screen of death may have had something to do with that. Originally by: Moving Along I will agree with you on one point though; POS and sov mechanics need lovin. I still need to closely read the changes to POS and sov that are expected in Rev 2, and see them in action. But given how horribly thought-out current POS, sov, and supercap mechanics are -- PARTICULARLY at reducing node-crushing blob warfare -- I don't expect much. Which sums up how I feel about this entire controversy too. Potential GM misconduct, inequal communication with devs, perhaps even dev misconduct -- I don't expect much. But I honestly and truly would like to see Arkanon surprise me with an in-depth investigation.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:52:00 - [2667] Originally by: Garia666 Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Moving Along Edited by: Moving Along on 27/05/2007 08:17:53 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 08:10:10 Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:03:17 JV1V ... end of story Did goons do it to crash the node or did they just post something that said "FIGHT TONIGHT!! COME KICK ASS!!!!" and the game couldn't handle it? Inquiring minds want to know It's also not Goon's fault if LV morons get resetting themselves to the end of the queue by relogging when they got kicked and couldn't get back on. Actually, there was no way for them to end up in the queue near the front because the goons on the nearby node were able to get in first by spamming the jump button. To respond to your question; they did do it to crash the node. Thats why there were tons of noobships that jumped in. Why are you arguing the FACT that they did this? A GM even acknowledged it. Btw, its a pity that you result to name calling. I said before I wasn't bashing goons. You are a sad person :( What's funny is you believe this without being there. You believe this because the moment it happened LV started posting on the forums that they were sending in "T1 frigs and cruisers". What LV never figured out (probably because their alliance fell the hell apart after wards) was how many fighters died in that first wave that they allegedly "kicked the ass of". Now I forget here, how much is a fighter compared to the T1 cruiser killing it? you clearly wherent there so dont talk B*llSh!t It's hilarious because I was.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:53:00 - [2668] Originally by: Moving Along They do have a system in place. People break rules all the time. You can't literally tie their hands. Don't be so blatantly ignorant. The system they have in place is clearly inadequate, the rules governing dev conduct are clearly too loose and while people break rules all the time people actually developing a game should not do so and expect paying customers just to put up with it. It's become abundantly clear that the benefits stemming from CCP employees having characters actively involved in the game on Tranquility and maintaining close ties with certain members of the playerbase are far outweighed by the downsides as far as impartiality and an even playing field are concerned.
Kage Psychodin Caldari The Empire Nation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:54:00 - [2669] all I can say so far is simply...wow. Lots of noise making on both sides. I wouldn't be surprised if it were entirely true. it's hard not to favor the "winningest" side in a game when they provide so much in the form of subscription fees, but in general I really do think Devs should keep completely seperate from their players in the casual-social nature as opposed to purely informative. Another one bites the dust.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:56:00 - [2670] Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Garia666 you clearly wherent there so dont talk B*llSh!t It's hilarious because I was. confirmin' dis (I always take note when James Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuar shows up on TS)
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:57:00 - [2671] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Moving Along They do have a system in place. People break rules all the time. You can't literally tie their hands. Don't be so blatantly ignorant. The system they have in place is clearly inadequate, the rules governing dev conduct are clearly too loose and while people break rules all the time people actually developing a game should not do so and expect paying customers just to put up with it. It's become abundantly clear that the benefits stemming from CCP employees having characters actively involved in the game on Tranquility and maintaining close ties with certain members of the playerbase are far outweighed by the downsides as far as impartiality and an even playing field are concerned. I believe it was (very clearly) stated that dev misconduct (of the T20 style for example) is punishable by job termination.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:58:00 - [2672] Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Moving Along They do have a system in place. People break rules all the time. You can't literally tie their hands. Don't be so blatantly ignorant. The system they have in place is clearly inadequate, the rules governing dev conduct are clearly too loose and while people break rules all the time people actually developing a game should not do so and expect paying customers just to put up with it. It's become abundantly clear that the benefits stemming from CCP employees having characters actively involved in the game on Tranquility and maintaining close ties with certain members of the playerbase are far outweighed by the downsides as far as impartiality and an even playing field are concerned. I believe it was (very clearly) stated that dev misconduct (of the T20 style for example) is punishable by job termination. T20 wasn't fired
Faith Black Minmatar Rolls Roids	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:59:00 - [2673] Edited by: Faith Black on 27/05/2007 09:00:06 1) The question about the arc is: 'What was about to be given away as prices during that and was it in the script, who gets it ?' If nothing was about to be given away, then there is no problem with it. It's a storyline and needs to end in a certain way, so that the next part can happen. I think these storylines are written and planned over months, so events need to follow a certain plot. What shouldn't happen of course is: 'Alliance X gets a mothership in the end.' Don't know, if that was in the plot. That would be a bad joke. 2) Sharkbait: Purpose of this whole thing unknown. Have to wait for the answer. Don't see any relation to BoB. That's just goon fantasy at the moment. 3) Contacting dev-friends or GM-friends via MSN alone isn't cheating. But what definitely shouldn't happen is that: 'I call my GM/dev friend and he solves it for us.' and what also shouldn't happen is that the GM or dev friend immediately takes your side against another ISD member without much asking, because you are friends. That's crap and the main problem is not that BoB was mentioned here, it's a CCP problem and their employees' unprofessional behaviour CCP employees can do whatever in their sparetime and have chit-chat like they want, but when they are doing their job, they need to treat every customer equally and not: 'Ok, you're my best buddy, don't worry, I solve it for you.' There should be only one way to get your problems solved as a player and that's the way via petition, where everyone should be treated equally. And a GM, who's best friend with the petitioner, should also NOT work on that petition, if he can't stay neutral. It's as easy as that. Otherwise it seems like corrupt politics in a little banana republic to me. ------ No.1 reason to post with an alt: Avoiding that your main looks too silly.
General Furyan Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:59:00 - [2674] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: General Furyan Finally, i am out of this game, CCP is just going in the wrong direction, it took me several scandal to finally put me down. There was not much MMO to compete Eve in the last 2 years, thing will change in 2007. CCP is forcing poeple to blob and stay stuck in POS with Titan, you ignore players who are not capital pilots making them absolute in most situation. No mather how good you are in pvp, this activity have not much influence on war now, everything rely on witch alliance have the most capitals ships (including titan). I just miss the time where 1 pvper where able to close a system by it's pilot ability, not because of his ship type. Have fun guys, this game was really awesome until mid 2006. sure its not just your stark raving mad alliance mates pulling you down? seriously! Only thing that makes this game playable for me is my friends in game. There is no point past them, thats why i am here. For fun. If i had to log in and listen to 200+ ppl in alliance chan screaming about cheating and hax and sploits.... spamming forums out of game as my stations were losing sov. in game.... i'd get pretty down too. Maybe you just need to shack up with a crew thats about having fun? Go pwn in some low sec ? (there one pilot can still be god)..... if not, (god, i'm sorry, i cant resist..) can i have your stuf? I am in Goon since 1 month, so nothing related to them. We at LDLQ where in DBRN in Fountain 1.5 year ago, at that time, Bob for me was a nice bunch of poeple. But it sadly turn down when they shut down our POS with 2 days of strontium in a few hours. We lost several bilion in that adventure. We did a petition to know why it was possible. We never get any answer except that GM was saying they didn't cheat. At that time, we have supposed that we did something wrong, but i doubt it. I still think that the majority of Bob pilots are honest and have a sense of honor, but i also think that some of them have acces to critical information about bug and game exploit witch they use in there favor. I cant tell about all the other story on this forum, all i can talk about is my own experience, and that is anought for me! - General Furyan
Zenst Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:59:00 - [2675] so How about as a way forward and peace of mind that there is a channel ingame created were a representative of each alliance can sit and be feriendly and civil and CCP can sit and WHEN there is an issue. It can be discussed and THEN relevent petitions raised as and when needed. Would sort alot of concerns out and also help CCP to help us instead of blob A raising X exploits about blob B to the extent which we have today :(. That is that petitions are not a highslot weapon. Also my take on this ISD chap. Well one logical explanation would be given the number that he had an overview bug were he was rightly from his perspective neveer near ANY dreads etc. But to the rest he was. From that premise you can easily get to were it ended. As for the we have DEV/Gm's on speedial, well I'm not aware of it at all and happily sign something to that effect if it will make anybody happier. Though one thing to concider, we `BOB` are probably the most petitioned alliance/players ingame, why. Well were at the cutting edge of war and that always causes friction. Also hostiles do get upset, it happens. Anyhow, given this I wouldn;t be supprised if some people were practicaly on first name terms with some GM's. If I was a GM and I'm not, and I was dealing with the same people time after time, any form of expertited communication would be darn useful for my job. Communication works both ways, so. Also If you goto the help channel and ask for a GM, remarkably enough you can get a pretty darn instant response, same with petitions. though from my experience it has been petitioning macro miners and one chap that realy shouldn;t of been let lose in local. But hey life in bob is colourful, in my past I've been accused of exploits like login traps in M0o so much it was a running joke, and guess what. People latch on and also assume that nomater what. We had people accuse us when were we jumped into a gate camp once and killed them. Had we not kileld them then we would never of been accused. You see a trend in human nature here. I accept people always dislike the top dogs, heck how many people complain about windows, yet even when given a choice they still go with it. Nothing is ever perfect, if it was then it would be boring. So whats needed to appease peoples minds, well a open policey and a ingame channel were representatives sit would make life for CCP and the players allround alot more fun, and we like fun. Well if there is anything I could personaly do to help, let me know. But beyond this being my last post upon the matter, thats it. Discuss in evemail if you feel the need. i shall not be held responsible for the death of a marketing persons eyesite anymore :>>
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:00:00 - [2676] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Moving Along They do have a system in place. People break rules all the time. You can't literally tie their hands. Don't be so blatantly ignorant. The system they have in place is clearly inadequate, the rules governing dev conduct are clearly too loose and while people break rules all the time people actually developing a game should not do so and expect paying customers just to put up with it. It's become abundantly clear that the benefits stemming from CCP employees having characters actively involved in the game on Tranquility and maintaining close ties with certain members of the playerbase are far outweighed by the downsides as far as impartiality and an even playing field are concerned. I believe it was (very clearly) stated that dev misconduct (of the T20 style for example) is punishable by job termination. T20 wasn't fired That is true. He was punished though. Many people were on vacation at the time and those who were in charge didn't know how far they should have gone. Why would you punish someone twice for the same 'crime'? It was stated that he would have been fired if the (sorry to say it this way) proper staff was there.
Toggzter	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:01:00 - [2677] Hmmm... this realy stinks. Im a new player putting a lot of time into EVE right now. But if this if how EVE works im not going to continue playing thats for sure. Should it be CCCP maybe ?
Biatchen	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:03:00 - [2678] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 27/05/2007 04:29:18 Proof I'd leave BoB if the charges are true "as stated" by goons: Way back in May 0f 2004 after getting back from the desert I started to play Eve. I knew Blacklight and few other BNC from a previous game. Some friends, some enemies, but all on good terms and with respect(yep, it IS possible to actively war with folks for RL YEARS in online games, and yet still respect them). Not long after starting Eve, I joined BNC (then part of NORAD's military arm) I discovered that even as a noob, I could make top quality Bookmarks, and that the veterans LOVED my Bookmarks. I was popular, and felt great about pulling my wieght even with my low skill points. I even managed to fire my launchers now and then, but while it was fun, I was a minnow among sharks, but a minnow with useful talent that made me valuable. Then something happned. I wont go into details, as it is now a dead issue, but I left BNC over a matter of principle. The day after I left I added the following to my bio: "If you are standing on a vital point of principle, and your friends tell you to stop, what would you do?" It was "not" a sudden leaving (took well over a month), and I was warned repeatedly to stop pressing the issue, but as I said repeatedly at the time, as much as I liked the folks I was playing with, I would not compromise, even it meant leaving corp. Turned out it meant leaving corp (I suspect I know who was behind the brick wall I ran into, but as stated, it is a dead issue now. To this day I dont know "why" I ran into a brick wall, but as it is no longer an issue, I dont worry about it.) A number of months latter I was invited to help form BNC.E. My first act was to see if the issue that concerned me was still an issue. Turned out that a few months after I left the corp did exactly what I had been asking for. In short, I HAVE left corp and alliance over something smaller than what the goon accuse BoB of. If what the goons said was true, I would know. (There may be a grain of truth "within" what they accuse, but what they accuse is completely untrue as stated (They accuse extensive deliberate favoratism by CCP)). Further proof that the accusations "as stated" are untrue: It does not take a lot of reading on the forums to realize that Blacklight is HIGHLY respected as a straight player, including by many enemies. If what the goons accuse was true as they state it, he would be all over it. It would NOT be tolerated. (Again, there might be a tiny true grain in there, of someone accelerating a petition improperly, and please note I used the word "might" and not the word "is", but what the goons accuse is a flat out lie. As for my extreme doubt, if the goons said the sun was up, I'd have my doubts even it was high noon and I was outside. I remember the last (and only) time I debated goons.) Do you guys brainstorm these long FUD posts? We will see if CCP finally grows a Pair and does the right thing regardless of the FUD your organization is spewing here. GOT MSN?
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:03:00 - [2679] Edited by: Moving Along on 27/05/2007 09:02:50 Originally by: Toggzter Hmmm... this realy stinks. Im a new player putting a lot of time into EVE right now. But if this if how EVE works im not going to continue playing thats for sure. Should it be CCCP maybe ? You don't even know what's going on, do you? Eve works fine. There are only accusations at the moment. Not a single shred of proof for anything.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:04:00 - [2680] More than anything else, there is one simple reason I flat out dont believe that BoB is corrupt: Blacklight runs BNC, and I've not heard anything about there being a corruption problem in BoB. Long ago I left BNC over a matter of principle, but even then, even in my anger, I knew exactly what Blacklight was focused on, and is focused on to this day. (as for the reason I left BNC, it is a dead issue, unrelated to any of this) Even on that day, when I was ROYALLY ****ed at BNC, I could not delude myself to a certain truth. Blacklight is focused on making BNC into the best PvP team possible. Nothing more, nothing less. And not just roaming gang pvp, but the full spectrum of pvp, everything from roaming frig gangs rampaging for random to fun, to huge capital fleets bent on total conquest. Corruption simply would not be tolerated. Corruption in the corp does not lead to being the best. At best it leads to faking it, and that is simply not good enough. I dont know the other BoB ceos anywhere like I know Blacklight, but he and the other BNC/BNC.E leaders do know them, and they've worked closely for years now, and known each other long before that. The other BoB corps have goals similar to BNC's. If there was a corruption problem, it would be purged. It is that simple. As for corruption at the top, it is simply NOT possible. Underhanded, dirty, sneaky, and bazzare at the top, YES, but they simply will not tolerate anything that gets between them being the best they can be. (and before any idiot suggests it, they don't give a damn "appearing" to be the best to the masses. The people who's opinions they care about will know, the masses can be ignored except when within weapon range) As for CCP, cant speak on them in any detail, except to state that if they offered to be partisan, it would be aggressively turned down. All this leaves is the possibilty (and I'm not going accept goon word, not after the dealings I've been victim of) that an ISD was contacted by non-standard methods in order to accelerate a petition. (Obvious as BoB can be yelled at, this is more signifcant then an ISD actually working against BoB, which the goons are strangly silent about). Such non-standard contact methods (be they chat, phone, smake signal or whatever) should, and probably will, be prohibited (no one is debating that), HOWEVER, they DO NOT constitute the omghaxorbobcheatbobsaregmsriggedgame conspiracy that some would have you believe. I simply do not believe, cannot believe, that Blacklight would even THINK of tolerating corruption contaminating the thing he has worked on so hard and so successfully these last several years, YET, for the goon charges to be true, he could not help but know about it, THUS the charges cannot be true. And no, this is not blind loyalty. When you've worked with folks for years, you learn a few things about them, their strengths and weaknesses. The charges, as stated, CANNOT be true.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:04:00 - [2681] Originally by: Zenst so How about as a way forward and peace of mind that there is a channel ingame created were a representative of each alliance can sit and be feriendly and civil and CCP can sit and WHEN there is an issue. It can be discussed and THEN relevent petitions raised as and when needed. Would sort alot of concerns out and also help CCP to help us instead of blob A raising X exploits about blob B to the extent which we have today :(. That is that petitions are not a highslot weapon. Also my take on this ISD chap. Well one logical explanation would be given the number that he had an overview bug were he was rightly from his perspective neveer near ANY dreads etc. But to the rest he was. From that premise you can easily get to were it ended. As for the we have DEV/Gm's on speedial, well I'm not aware of it at all and happily sign something to that effect if it will make anybody happier. Though one thing to concider, we `BOB` are probably the most petitioned alliance/players ingame, why. Well were at the cutting edge of war and that always causes friction. Also hostiles do get upset, it happens. Anyhow, given this I wouldn;t be supprised if some people were practicaly on first name terms with some GM's. If I was a GM and I'm not, and I was dealing with the same people time after time, any form of expertited communication would be darn useful for my job. Communication works both ways, so. Also If you goto the help channel and ask for a GM, remarkably enough you can get a pretty darn instant response, same with petitions. though from my experience it has been petitioning macro miners and one chap that realy shouldn;t of been let lose in local. But hey life in bob is colourful, in my past I've been accused of exploits like login traps in M0o so much it was a running joke, and guess what. People latch on and also assume that nomater what. We had people accuse us when were we jumped into a gate camp once and killed them. Had we not kileld them then we would never of been accused. You see a trend in human nature here. I accept people always dislike the top dogs, heck how many people complain about windows, yet even when given a choice they still go with it. Nothing is ever perfect, if it was then it would be boring. So whats needed to appease peoples minds, well a open policey and a ingame channel were representatives sit would make life for CCP and the players allround alot more fun, and we like fun. Well if there is anything I could personaly do to help, let me know. But beyond this being my last post upon the matter, thats it. Discuss in evemail if you feel the need. i shall not be held responsible for the death of a marketing persons eyesite anymore :>> Great post, we need more like it from both sides.
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:07:00 - [2682] Originally by: Sergeant Spot More than anything else, there is one simple reason I flat out dont believe that BoB is corrupt: Blacklight runs BNC, and I've not heard anything about there being a corruption problem in BoB. Long ago I left BNC over a matter of principle, but even then, even in my anger, I knew exactly what Blacklight was focused on, and is focused on to this day. (as for the reason I left BNC, it is a dead issue, unrelated to any of this) Even on that day, when I was ROYALLY ****ed at BNC, I could not delude myself to a certain truth. Blacklight is focused on making BNC into the best PvP team possible. Nothing more, nothing less. And not just roaming gang pvp, but the full spectrum of pvp, everything from roaming frig gangs rampaging for random to fun, to huge capital fleets bent on total conquest. Corruption simply would not be tolerated. Corruption in the corp does not lead to being the best. At best it leads to faking it, and that is simply not good enough. I dont know the other BoB ceos anywhere like I know Blacklight, but he and the other BNC/BNC.E leaders do know them, and they've worked closely for years now, and known each other long before that. The other BoB corps have goals similar to BNC's. If there was a corruption problem, it would be purged. It is that simple. As for corruption at the top, it is simply NOT possible. Underhanded, dirty, sneaky, and bazzare at the top, YES, but they simply will not tolerate anything that gets between them being the best they can be. (and before any idiot suggests it, they don't give a damn "appearing" to be the best to the masses. The people who's opinions they care about will know, the masses can be ignored except when within weapon range) As for CCP, cant speak on them in any detail, except to state that if they offered to be partisan, it would be aggressively turned down. All this leaves is the possibilty (and I'm not going accept goon word, not after the dealings I've been victim of) that an ISD was contacted by non-standard methods in order to accelerate a petition. (Obvious as BoB can be yelled at, this is more signifcant then an ISD actually working against BoB, which the goons are strangly silent about). Such non-standard contact methods (be they chat, phone, smake signal or whatever) should, and probably will, be prohibited (no one is debating that), HOWEVER, they DO NOT constitute the omghaxorbobcheatbobsaregmsriggedgame conspiracy that some would have you believe. I simply do not believe, cannot believe, that Blacklight would even THINK of tolerating corruption contaminating the thing he has worked on so hard and so successfully these last several years, YET, for the goon charges to be true, he could not help but know about it, THUS the charges cannot be true. And no, this is not blind loyalty. When you've worked with folks for years, you learn a few things about them, their strengths and weaknesses. The charges, as stated, CANNOT be true. Your personal assurance unfortunately can't really mean much to me and others who have seen things that run counter to what you're saying.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:12:00 - [2683] Before I go for the night, I will say one more thing: This thread just needs to be locked until the investigation is completed. People just keep repeating what has been said before. Everyone just needs to learn patience (We all can do that I'm sure). "Patience? This has gone on for too long." ... I won't even bother responding to those types of arguments. I hope everyone here can find some for of patience within them so that this can be resolved peacefully. I'm definitely going to keep playing this game, hopefully everyone else here does as well. I'll see those of you on the battlefield who actually care about the game more than having a dev get fired for unproven accusations. o7 good luck and please don't make the forum explode again
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:17:00 - [2684] Originally by: Moving Along "Patience? This has gone on for too long." ... I won't even bother responding to those types of arguments. Why not?
Strepsils	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:18:00 - [2685] Originally by: Tholarim On a discussion note. Does any1 actually believe orange species would tell any1 in local the minute he was contacting a gm on msn? Uhm... yes? I had a chance to see 'powerdrives' in LOCAL before (very high-ranking BoB member telling me what was wrong with my POS setup, and why it wouldn't shoot - same member that was talking about using GM account to do other things earlier, but I always took it as a joke, until he really told me what was wrong with my POS setup ). Then again, even after he told me what was wrong with my POS setup, I took it as him knowing "game mechanics" very well (although nothing is documented, so I won't ask where he learned it), and not him really being a GM. Because CCP told us so many times that devs/GMs should never reveal if they're GMs/devs (on player accounts), and they'd be suspended/recycled/whatever. However, I am now having second thoughts, thanks to all the CCP scandals. You know, maybe he is a GM, and he really was abusing his power. Maybe BoB really know how many times Orange Species was petitioned? Maybe BoB really did get IP addresses of certain people (as leaked from that kugutsu guy before)? Maybe devs = BoB leadership? Maybe devs = MC leadership? What do I know... All I know is that there are way too many coincidences. And if CCP does actually investigate this properly (ha, ha, ha), I'd beg them to investigate if any other alliances/corps also get 'preferential' status, by also having direct links to GMs/devs. I don't care if it's BoB, AAA, RA, Goons - noone should be able to have such advantages. For all we know, this whole damn game might be a joke - a war between devs at high-ranking positions at different alliances, trying to show off their ****s, thus ruining the game. You know, some devs in BoB, some devs in D2, some devs in AAA - all joking about that in the office, and saying "Yeah, sure, we're going to investigate ourselves and take action - hahahaa..."
Toggzter	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:20:00 - [2686] Originally by: Moving Along Edited by: Moving Along on 27/05/2007 09:02:50 Originally by: Toggzter Hmmm... this realy stinks. Im a new player putting a lot of time into EVE right now. But if this if how EVE works im not going to continue playing thats for sure. Should it be CCCP maybe ? You don't even know what's going on, do you? Eve works fine. There are only accusations at the moment. Not a single shred of proof for anything. Ok..well.. I sure hope this is a "missunderstanding" as i like EVE. I wasnt there so no, I dont realy know whats going on thats true.
Thaddius Smith	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:22:00 - [2687] The logging on of a GM/DEV into a player corporation POS is a central issue to player concerns. All the posts seem to assume that this action is nefarious because no petition from the member corp has been produced. Why is it assumed that the petition originated from a member of the Corp that owned the POS? Could the petition have originated from outside the Corp by some one who suspected an exploit was being utilized by some member or members of the Corp? Investigating a petition alleging the utilization of an exploit would involves a number of pitfalls. 1) Confidentiality-Petitioner could be/have: A) Disgruntled loser. B) Fishing for intelligence via a new GM/Dev. C) Uncovered a glaring flaw in game mechanics. D) Reporting a new (soon to be) illegal exploit. E) A whistleblower within the corp. F) An employee giving unfair advantage to friends. Numerous complications and permutations can be imagined beyond that above, so I am withholding judgement for now. Honestly I can well understand why in each case CCP might be unlikely to be fully transparent in its accounting of what transpired. Unfortunately due to past known occurrences of "F" confidentiality maintained for any reasons is now suspect. Full disclosure and even exoneration of the actions of the CCP employee with regard to happen with DS1 WILL NOT resolve the Player/Employee Fraternization issue. For this reason I thimk it is important to decouple the specifics of the events at the DS1 POS and the larger issue of Player/Employee fraternization. CCP, events of the past and some current actions have warped the psychological environment you must now navigate. I think expecting to be told everything is unrealistic, but I expect to be shown that the larger issue of excessive Player/Employee fraternization is resolved. I am watching with interest. Afterall the cancellation cannon can only be fired once, but I am keeping my powder dry. Amen and Out
Elmo Noguchi	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:23:00 - [2688] Originally by: Toggzter Originally by: Moving Along Edited by: Moving Along on 27/05/2007 09:02:50 Originally by: Toggzter Hmmm... this realy stinks. Im a new player putting a lot of time into EVE right now. But if this if how EVE works im not going to continue playing thats for sure. Should it be CCCP maybe ? You don't even know what's going on, do you? Eve works fine. There are only accusations at the moment. Not a single shred of proof for anything. Ok..well.. I sure hope this is a "missunderstanding" as i like EVE. I wasnt there so no, I dont realy know whats going on thats true. There are plenty of shreds. Nothing is CERTAIN yet, though. All we know for sure is that a Dev joined DS1 without permission and then wouldn't explain himself, then CCP lied about what happened, and that BoB has admitted to having out of game contact with CCP. The second part makes the accusation of the ISD firing more suspicious but no more true, and there's no real proof on the RP tampering yet.
one2one	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:24:00 - [2689] Originally by: Sir Mole Look, fools, this is the way it works: Step one, purge the forums of the posts. Step two, post a non-responsive answer and set up a thread so you all can vent. Step three, wait 48 or so hours, lock the thread (without bothering to read it) and post some blather about how "we've dealt with it but we can't tell you how for obvious reasons." Step four, begin to issue warnings and subsequently forum bans to anyone who continues to press the issue. We know you will continue to pay us, er CCP, your money. It doesn't effect you enough to risk the time investment you've put into your characters. So why are you waisting your time? Mole
Dunescatan Rex Amarr Crimson Council	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:25:00 - [2690] I started playing EVE because I read in a magazine about the Guiding Hand Social Club plot and raid on Ubiqua Seraph, and I was awed by the versatility of the game to allow such an impressive player organised event. I am a massive fan of roleplay in RL, and finding a computer game that allows me to change the universe so directly and reap my rewards and failures on their own merits was an alluring prospect. Since I started playing, however, I have chased RP events around like a dog, always arriving too late to catch events hinted at in news articles, or not being able to penetrate 0.0 long enough to participate due to locals aggressing me. Sucks to be me... I know. My point is this: I tried to make friends with Devs. I followed hints and rumours of a hidden gate into Jove space for a month trying to make my introductions. I'd go to the fanfests, but I'm broke. Winterblank (think I got that spelling right) crashed his car and got a signed poster from the Dev team wishing him well. I had my guts torn open last year by an exploding calor gas bottle, I got nothing from them. Reason being they knew him and not me, so that kind of interaction I don't mind. I'd love some buddies in the Dev team, if for no other reason than to occassionally beg for an elite tormentor being added to a future content expansion (Tug boat/ tractor ship... can tractor enemy BS!! We so need this! ) I have no problem with this state of affairs. What I have a problem with is that it took me a month and a half to get a response to a petition about a macro miner in my home system and a month to get one concerning a missing market transaction, yet some guy with a Dev on MSN can call in an official arse kicking in 2 minutes flat. He wasn't directed to petitions or guided through the process (as I think would have been a reasonable approach) he was listened to because he was an amigo. That worries me. I used to work for the police as a civi adjunct. I have many friends who are serving police officers. It is acceptable for me to call my friends and pick their brains about their work, if something is technically illegal etc and what my rights are. But there is a line they can't cross. I could not ask my friend to come arrest a guy who is standing next to my car and expect it to happen, let alone in moments of my request. Similarly, if I asked my friend for details held on the PNC about someone, or I asked for details of a current classified operation, I'd not only expect him to say no, but also to report the matter to a superior to cover his own arse. That CCP insta-banned an ISD reporter on the request of a personal buddy is worrying. That story arc details are leaked out showing that CCP predetermined the outcome of an RP event is devestating. That T2 BPO's were first created and handed to BOB players by CCP staff, then the lottery was cancelled, so we have no method of getting an actual T2 BPO to compete (invention is not a method of competition with a BPO, before anyone says it is) is a crushing blow. Finally, that a GM used his powers to enter a corp, spy on a POS and its contents and then leave to give the details to a buddy in a rival corp is just disgraceful. I can think of no other reason for that action, given that the CEO and members of the corp in question catagorically state that they never had a POS glitch, nor were consulted about the GM entering their corp, and finally having their petitions over that conduct deleted without response. I joined this game because I wanted to play in a game that permitted me to alter and change the world around me via my actions in a meaningful way. That BOB and a few others have the ear of the Devs and there is consistant abuse of that relationship means I cannot play this game in the way I wanted. There is nothing left for me to do, I'm not going to quit, I'm just going to have to join BOB. It's ugly and unseemly, but it is the only way
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:25:00 - [2691] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 09:27:09 Originally by: Thaddius Smith The logging on of a GM/DEV into a player corporation POS is a central issue to player concerns. All the posts seem to assume that this action is nefarious because no petition from the member corp has been produced. Why is it assumed that the petition originated from a member of the Corp that owned the POS? Could the petition have originated from outside the Corp by some one who suspected an exploit was being utilized by some member or members of the Corp? Investigating a petition alleging the utilization of an exploit would involves a number of pitfalls. 1) Confidentiality-Petitioner could be/have: A) Disgruntled loser. B) Fishing for intelligence via a new GM/Dev. C) Uncovered a glaring flaw in game mechanics. D) Reporting a new (soon to be) illegal exploit. E) A whistleblower within the corp. F) An employee giving unfair advantage to friends. Numerous complications and permutations can be imagined beyond that above, so I am withholding judgement for now. Honestly I can well understand why in each case CCP might be unlikely to be fully transparent in its accounting of what transpired. Unfortunately due to past known occurrences of "F" confidentiality maintained for any reasons is now suspect. This also still doesn't explain why CCP deleted DS1 petitions and refused DS1 conversation requests. The truth will set us free
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:27:00 - [2692] Oh - and that small issue of CCP emploees (with or without management approval) rigging Titan 'draws' to favour their mates in BoB. Nice.... Anyway - the issue here is that CCP seem to have a knee jerk reaction of covering things up - which is interesting in itself...
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:28:00 - [2693] Originally by: Mr Friendly Edited by: Mr Friendly on 27/05/2007 09:17:13 Originally by: Kage Psychodin all I can say so far is simply...wow. Lots of noise making on both sides. I wouldn't be surprised if it were entirely true. it's hard not to favor the "winningest" side in a game when they provide so much in the form of subscription fees, but in general I really do think Devs should keep completely seperate from their players in the casual-social nature as opposed to purely informative. This is a small point I don't want too make much of (off topic and really not helpful--- however). How many guys in 0.0 actually PAY for Eve? In empire, I can make a lot of isk very quickly while only running lvl 4 high-sec missions. The only reasons I pay RL cash for Eve is because a) I'm too lazy to buy gtc's with isk b) I'd rather spend my isk on flashy ships and modules and c) the monthly sub fee (for me) is really unnoticable... my beer and cigarettes crush the sub's cost.... So, I'd be interested in knowing how many of the 0.0 players actually pay RL cash. Missions, ratting, complexes and PVP are all potentially lucrative for at least the experienced/high-level players. I only mention this because the current discussion in part revolves around perceived unfairness about access the the game for certain customers of major alliances in 0.0 vs the rest of us. It would be very ironic if, the very people who benefited from Dev 'unfairness' did not actually pay for the game with RL cash but instead, the non 0.0 players have been paying those high prices for all that great officer stuff, indirectly subsidizing and promulgating the 'cheaters' edit: Does that make us partly responsible for the actions of the cheaters? I'm inclined to think so, if we know our actions support theirs, and we know their actions are questionable (at best). Transitive logic ftw. Please note, I'm really not pushing this as a point, I'm just pointing out an odd possibility. And having a bit of fun, too I dont know the percent (never really cared), but I know I pay RL money (I've no doubt I could earn the isk needed for cards, but, I'm not the most hard core at farming, and it would really dent my isk for other stuff). I also know that a number of folks DO use isk to get cards. I'd not be shocked if was 90% paying cash, or 70% paying isk, or anywhere in between. My "guess" is that most pay RL money, but a modarately healthy minority (maybe 30%) use isk.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:29:00 - [2694] Originally by: Sergeant Spot I dont know the percent (never really cared), but I know I pay RL money (I've no doubt I could earn the isk needed for cards, but, I'm not the most hard core at farming, and it would really dent my isk for other stuff). I also know that a number of folks DO use isk to get cards. I'd not be shocked if was 90% paying cash, or 70% paying isk, or anywhere in between. My "guess" is that most pay RL money, but a modarately healthy minority (maybe 30%) use isk. The 70-30 sounds likely to me also The truth will set us free
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:31:00 - [2695] Originally by: Zenst so How about as a way forward and peace of mind that there is a channel ingame created were a representative of each alliance can sit and be feriendly and civil and CCP can sit and WHEN there is an issue. It can be discussed and THEN relevent petitions raised as and when needed. Unfortunately this solution does nothing to create a level playing field, it at best increases the number of players with privileged access by a small amount without solving the underlying problem with governance at CCP. What's needed is stricter policies and greater transparency within CCP.
Scarlett Yo'Mason Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:32:00 - [2696] Edited by: Scarlett Yo''Mason on 27/05/2007 09:32:09 Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. Words on many lips atm are "Bob have to be stopped, how do we stop bob" - most replies I hear are, Bob will destroy themselves. If all that is claimed he is true is this the begining of the END for BOB/EVE ? unless CCP validate and clarify, maybe it's time to move on.
Merinne Gallente Inquest	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:33:00 - [2697] So, thenà What we have here is a very basic violation of business ethics. Based upon the readings I have done in regards to the events with T20 and the current debacle, this is a textbook case of conflict of interest. Mind you, I have not read (as of this writing) all 105 PAGES of forum posts. I donÆt want to murder myself. ThereÆs a company here in the states called Boeing û hell, we all know who they are. They had such a severe case of conflict of interest that each employee in the company is now required to undergo several hours of ethics training every 4-6 months Invariably, it happens to all businesses at some point, sometimes repeatedly. I am as uninvolved and uninterested in the BoB/Goon/whatever conflict as one can be. I live in my little bubble, run missions, explore, etc, etc. I believe itÆs called a carebear. I donÆt care who wins what out in whatever system on what particular day. I DO care about violations in business ethics, because I am a stakeholder in the EVE product û I am a customer. WeÆve read here (somewhere) that CCP believes that the DEVs need to play the game in order to understand it. I agree. Unfortunately, this is in and of itself a conflict of interest in terms of business ethics. The Developers of Eve can create or re-create almost any scenario we encounter in EvE. All they need is the information to do so. If they want to know what happens when 300 ships all start fighting in the same system on the live server, they can create that situation. In fact, they can do better; take that number and multiply it by 3, spawn that many NPCs, and fight your way out of it. Get ISD involved, make it a meeting. IÆd imagine they could muster a respectable fleet of ships. They have Sisi, and they do their æstressÆ tests. Granted itÆs not live, but it paints a picture. Hop in the GM-Mobile and go out to a live battle and watch it on TQ. Bottom line is that Devs shouldnÆt be involved in anything that shapes, dictates, or influences the PLAYER created political environment of EvE. They're DEVs. Run Missions. Explore. Form a little Dev corp, fight empire wars. DonÆt get involved in the political dynamics of eve beyond reporting/observing it. That is where the conflict of interest is at, specifically, and weÆve all now seen what happens when that goes south. The best way to solve ethical issues is to remove the issue entirely and repeatedly train employees in ethical business practices. If fortune 500 companies do it, so can CCP. Additionally, MSN, Yahoo, AIM, Skype, ICQ, and (insert messenger here) should not be allowed on work computers. We (and they) have petitions, in-game chat, and EvE voice (I think? ..lol). There is no justifiable reason to use anything else, with the exception of mIRC for the GMs to communicate with the volunteers. DEVs should play the game from WORK computers. If they are playing for specific game mechanic information, then they are working. It doesnÆt eliminate unethical behavior, but it removes a lot of vehicles. As for EvE, itÆs not a sandbox community, and EvE itself is not ethical. It is in all actuality a true to live living social structure, complete with deviants, do-gooders, and everyone in between. Part of that is finding the most efficient way of achieving a goal. If the channel is shady, so what? EvE is sometimes shady, very much so at times. Not a defense of an action by anyone, be it BoB or Goon or CCP or Santa Claus, just stating a fact about the community in general. ItÆs all ethics, from æallegedlyÆ crashing a server with forum posts to kicking an ISD or accepting kickbacks or gifts.. you get the idea. ItÆs not just CCP that needs to evaluate its behavior. Unfortunately for them, though, they are the ones who own the vehicle for this all to take place. They are people, too. I urge you all to let them sort it out in a reasonable timeframe. If the end result is not desirable, then just move on to something else.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:34:00 - [2698] Originally by: Scarlett Yo'Mason Edited by: Scarlett Yo''Mason on 27/05/2007 09:32:09 Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. Words on many lips atm are "Bob have to be stopped, how do we stop bob" - most replies I hear are, Bob will destroy themselves. If all that is claimed he is true is this the begining of the END for BOB/EVE ? unless CCP validate and clarify, maybe it's time to move on. The first part of this post was already made earlier in the thread and the second part doesn't even make sense- CCP is the one doing wrong, BoB is only possibly an accesory to a small part of it.
Toggzter	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:39:00 - [2699] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Toggzter Originally by: Moving Along Edited by: Moving Along on 27/05/2007 09:02:50 Originally by: Toggzter Hmmm... this realy stinks. Im a new player putting a lot of time into EVE right now. But if this if how EVE works im not going to continue playing thats for sure. Should it be CCCP maybe ? You don't even know what's going on, do you? Eve works fine. There are only accusations at the moment. Not a single shred of proof for anything. Ok..well.. I sure hope this is a "missunderstanding" as i like EVE. I wasnt there so no, I dont realy know whats going on thats true. There are plenty of shreds. Nothing is CERTAIN yet, though. All we know for sure is that a Dev joined DS1 without permission and then wouldn't explain himself, then CCP lied about what happened, and that BoB has admitted to having out of game contact with CCP. The second part makes the accusation of the ISD firing more suspicious but no more true, and there's no real proof on the RP tampering yet. Thanks Elmo, yes thats about what Ive "heard". ttfn and have a nice day/night
Lump Hammer	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:41:00 - [2700] Well as a low-profile empire based player, even I am stirred to make a forum post on this one... If you have a player account and are a dev as well, this should be considered a EULA violation of the highest degree, and a breach of CCP employment/engagement contract. How can you possibly play impartially when you have access to insider information in a game that has such a high-stake currency and political element to game-play. It just wrecks the whole principle of fair play. Either this is a regulated and fair game for the public to subscribe to, or it is a self-indulgent and biased ego trip for CCP employees and their friends, at everyone elses expense. If this issue is not addressed very quickly, I anticipate a massive exodus of the player-base and CCP's business model will fail dramatically. If you are very lucky, it might only manifest itself in some form of in-game player protest. Another uneasy player here.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:42:00 - [2701] Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:48:16 Originally by: Dominique Parr You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. Also all that pesky "evidence" stuff but hey, let's just ignore that for now. Edit: damnit, so close How about trust and credibility? Goons are a group of players that come from a community that takes pride in it's ability to destroy other communities. They achieve this through means such as DDOS attacks, forum "raids", hacking websites, and posting false information on other sites. The very same things you are attempting to do to the eve community. LOL, I bet that is what galls you the most isn't it? Some upstart loudmouthed newbies, and people believe them ten times more than they believe you. Because face it, Goons have more credibility than BoB and CCP combined. And that is not because Goons are the most credible group out there. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Stork DK Red 42	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:43:00 - [2702] Originally by: Merinne So, then... ...then just move on to something else. ^ what he said -------------- Minmatar Are The Awesome Race Idiots
Midshipman Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:43:00 - [2703] Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Moving Along They do have a system in place. People break rules all the time. You can't literally tie their hands. Don't be so blatantly ignorant. The system they have in place is clearly inadequate, the rules governing dev conduct are clearly too loose and while people break rules all the time people actually developing a game should not do so and expect paying customers just to put up with it. It's become abundantly clear that the benefits stemming from CCP employees having characters actively involved in the game on Tranquility and maintaining close ties with certain members of the playerbase are far outweighed by the downsides as far as impartiality and an even playing field are concerned. I believe it was (very clearly) stated that dev misconduct (of the T20 style for example) is punishable by job termination. T20 wasn't fired That is true. He was punished though. Many people were on vacation at the time and those who were in charge didn't know how far they should have gone. Why would you punish someone twice for the same 'crime'? It was stated that he would have been fired if the (sorry to say it this way) proper staff was there. I'm not sure why you keep clinging to the "punishment" of T20 as being a shining example of CCP properly policing themselves. If the only authorities around at the time felt themselves not empowered enough to hand out the proper punishment for his offenses (which CCP has even admitted would have been the proper thing), then they damn well shouldn't feel empowered enough to absolve him of his crime. Any institution that took integrity and the enforcement of its own rules seriously would have put T20 on suspension or at least postponed judgement until the higher ups had a chance to review the case. If I was the absent boss, I would have damn well fired someone upon my return. If not T20, I would have fired the incompetent managers who should have been keeping things under control in my absence. Instead of behaving responsibly as a company, CCP decided to sweep the whole affair under the carpet, not once, but twice (when T20 was first caught and again when the public became aware of the scandal). Up to this point, CCP has shown themselves to be totally incapable of policing the actions of anyone entrusted with positions of power and influence. CCP employees feel so bold that they allow their friends to brag about their connections and influence. Blatant violations of their own rules are carried out in broad daylight by CCP employees as they fear no consequences for their misdeeds (an example being GMs handling petitions that are directed against themselves). I challenge CCP to salvage what little they have left of their credibility. They can only get away with their current tactics for so long before the playerbase finds a company that actually cares about their customers. But who knows, maybe CCP doesn't care about running a successful business and would rather just play with their good friends and the few others that get suckered into being living NPCs for their little sandbox.
Forums Troll	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:44:00 - [2704] http://www.sharethatsong.com/node/3233
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:46:00 - [2705] Originally by: fire 59 CCP, you have made a wonderful game which is thoroughly enjoyable to play. It has been infested with an entity who doesn't care about the community because they are there own community and will stop at nothing to kill the game it seems. Keep up the good work and don't let all teh assclowns get to you. Yes, blame the goons for all the **. It makes sense. Last time crap happened, many players were being angry about devs playing in player corps/alliances. CCP was ignoring that. Now ** happens again, and let's focus on Goons whining, and not on devs playing in player corps, devs having direct contacts to players, devs possibly abusing their powers/privileges. Let's just focus on how Goons are guilty for everything, and how devs and player corps are ***** saints. I've said this before, and I'll repeat it over and over again: CCP, you can't have your cake and eat it.** (or, more logical, "you can't eat your cake and have it") It won't be Goons that will bring the game down, it won't be BoB that will bring the game down - it will be CCP.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:47:00 - [2706] Quote: That is true. He was punished though. Many people were on vacation at the time and those who were in charge didn't know how far they should have gone. Why would you punish someone twice for the same 'crime'? It was stated that he would have been fired if the (sorry to say it this way) proper staff was there. Err, you are assuming businesses work like a court of law where 'double-jeopardy' applies. It isn't a court of law, and it doesn't. I've run my own business, yet been on vacation when significant decisions had to be made. When I came back, I rectified the errors that weren't in line with my ethos. It's business, it's not personal. I've reversed poor decisions and have fired people that should have been fired in the first place. I've also reversed reprimands and promoted people whom were punsihsed in my absence. That's business. Competence and merit apply always, not some sort of 'oh well, my foreman made a decision and I guess that decision stands regardless of how poor the decision was'. Nope. Dude got canned, and my foreman was given more training detailing what constituted a firing offence and what didn't. It wasn't the foreman's fault, because he didn't know for sure and erred on the side of caution. Good for him. If HE had of kept doing it when I wasn't available, despite the updates, HE would have been canned. It's business. CCP's problem in part seems to be that they haven't moved into 'corporate accountability' over 'he's my colleague, so...' T20 should have been canned. Then, the entire company's employment practices should have been restructured by a professional HR department. Additionally, the CEO should have thrown all their weight behind the restructuring just so everyone knew things were different, now. It's not like CCP are operating out of a garage, guys. They're not still living at their parent's house. That they only recently formed an IA department (AFTER merging with White Wolf and AFTER the t20 scandal) demonstrates they still have a lurking 'garage mentality'). Actually, it's ironic that the publisher of one of the most rigourous and personally loss-driven MMO's out there are still high-sec noobs when it comes to business ethics. They're currently getting war decced left right and centre and are floundering because of it Given the underlying quality of their product, I really do hope they get their business ethics in line with the MMO reality. Else, they really are toast. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Malloc Memrel	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:50:00 - [2707] Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: Malloc Memrel As an ex-Blizzard employee... Did they wire a bomb into your head as well? I love that CCP staff play their own game and keep in touch with the playerbase - it leaves us with a game where we can get a GM response promptly, are always kept abreast of what the devs have planned, and can exert tangible influence on alterations to the game (Logoffski, anyone? Don't hear anyone complain about that nowadays...). Things may not always happen as swiftly as an impatient playerbase may like, but I actually find myself consistently impressed with the speed with which CCP responds not only to in-game issues, but also scandals like this one - and I honestly don't believe that would be possible unless they were intimately connected with the playerbase in a way that other games developers usually aren't. Haha, no, we're just good at keeping secrets. You see a lot of PA comics on desktops and cube walls, though. I am, however, going to have to take issue with your assertion that CCP has to have developer-level players on the public servers. We dealt with bugs day after day numbering in the hundreds at Blizzard, and there was never any reason, ever, ever, EVER to do any sort of testing on the public server. If someone reported the problem, we would bring up the build that the bug occurred in, reproduce the bug, figure out the fix, and apply it in the next patch. If it was a prticularly greivous bug, we would implement a hotfix and patch it ASAP. That a game which has scheduled downtime every single day where patches could be inserted claims to need to test things on the live public servers is absurd, especially when you can get all the numbers you need on the massive test server, which is the only time any mmo would ever need to include regular players in the testing cycle. There's scant few things you could test with 30 people you couldn't test with two or three, there's absolutely no excuse for people with developer tool access to be within a mile of regular paying customers. And to be honest, even having read this entire thread and seen the same tired nonsense from people here that I saw over every other petty squabble on the WoW boards, the group that I think has acted most poorly is CCP. When t20 admitted wrongdoing, CCP should have made a public professional execution out of him, because he by his personal selfish actions cast a bad light on everyone that works for CCP, which I find abhorrent because I know some wonderful people who work there. And though I'm loathe to take anything resembling a "Side" in all of this, BoB should have been right there with the noose. That a single employee could cast a shadow of doubt over developers and players alike and not be fired for it, further degenrating the client-developer trust bonds, boggles my mind. I don't know how things are in Europe, but if someone from Blizzard pulled a stunt like that and admitted to it, they'd never have a game industry job in California again. Probably the entire West Coast. Bottom line, someone is going to swing for this, and there's two options. Option one is that CCP gets to the bottom of this quickly, efficiently, and most of all transparently, and the culprit (Of either the allegations or of falsely instigating them, again I don't want to take side) gets lynched in CCP's internal court. Option two is that nothing happens and CCP as a whole will swing for it, judgement passed in the court of public opinion, which I'm sorry to say is becoming far and away more public as time progresses. Everybody gets one freebie in the game industry before they have to answer for it. Whether it's making a crappy game, sticking your PR foot in your mouth, whatever, gamers will forgive anyone of just about anything once. CCP has had their once, and I really, really don't want to see them go for twice.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:08:00 - [2708] Originally by: Mr Friendly Quote: That is true. He was punished though. Many people were on vacation at the time and those who were in charge didn't know how far they should have gone. Why would you punish someone twice for the same 'crime'? It was stated that he would have been fired if the (sorry to say it this way) proper staff was there. Err, you are assuming businesses work like a court of law where 'double-jeopardy' applies. It isn't a court of law, and it doesn't. I've run my own business, yet been on vacation when significant decisions had to be made. When I came back, I rectified the errors that weren't in line with my ethos. It's business, it's not personal. I've reversed poor decisions and have fired people that should have been fired in the first place. I've also reversed reprimands and promoted people whom were punsihsed in my absence. That's business. Competence and merit apply always, not some sort of 'oh well, my foreman made a decision and I guess that decision stands regardless of how poor the decision was'. Nope. Dude got canned, and my foreman was given more training detailing what constituted a firing offence and what didn't. It wasn't the foreman's fault, because he didn't know for sure and erred on the side of caution. Good for him. If HE had of kept doing it when I wasn't available, despite the updates, HE would have been canned. It's business. CCP's problem in part seems to be that they haven't moved into 'corporate accountability' over 'he's my colleague, so...' T20 should have been canned. Then, the entire company's employment practices should have been restructured by a professional HR department. Additionally, the CEO should have thrown all their weight behind the restructuring just so everyone knew things were different, now. It's not like CCP are operating out of a garage, guys. They're not still living at their parent's house. That they only recently formed an IA department (AFTER merging with White Wolf and AFTER the t20 scandal) demonstrates they still have a lurking 'garage mentality'). Actually, it's ironic that the publisher of one of the most rigourous and personally loss-driven MMO's out there are still high-sec noobs when it comes to business ethics. They're currently getting war decced left right and centre and are floundering because of it Given the underlying quality of their product, I really do hope they get their business ethics in line with the MMO reality. Else, they really are toast. This is right on the money. When senior management last summer returned, they should have immediately fired t20 as an example. I also find it hard to believe that no member of senior management could be raised. In this day of cell phones, email, etc it is highly unlikely they weren't contacted. It was just a cop out saying someone else made a bad decision but we aren't going to do anything about it. CCP needs to get the ship in order. I don't think the player base is going to take the same kind of approach well this time. If the allegations of a special line of communications is proven then someone is going to have to be fired and some player accounts are going to have to be banned. This would show that you will not tolerate employees fostering inappropriate relationships with players. It will also show players the cost of circumventing proper lines of communication. Right now CCP doesn't have a lot of competition but that is going to change over the next year. As newer games come out it is inevitable that some will leave to try them, the more dissatisfied your player base, the greater chance of them leaving. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:09:00 - [2709] Originally by: R3dSh1ft Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Malloc Memrel ... I love how some random guy says he worked at blizzard and people just believe whatever he says. like you have any credibility being in BoB - did you even read the open letter? Why yes I did, but what does that have to do with what I said? --- Dianabolic speaks about BoB's developer relationship. Lag Killer
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:09:00 - [2710] Shinigami - I am sorry, but with a name like 'Reikoku' on your charecter, frankly your opinion counts for ****....
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:10:00 - [2711] Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 10:10:41 the only thing funny about these continuing bob posts is that all evidence is ignored or not even mentioned, and they continue to talk as if the core if this corruption issue is a war in an internet spaceship game this has to do with players not trusting CCP i've already posted it but i'll post it again col+lu+sion (kə-lōō'zhən) Pronunciation Key n. A secret agreement between two or more parties for a fraudulent, illegal, or deceitful purpose. cor+rup+tion (kə-rŭp'shən) Pronunciation Key n. lack of integrity or honesty (especially susceptibility to bribery); use of a position of trust for dishonest gain and there is a substantial amount of proof that has been confirmed and REconfirmed...and is piling up more and more
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:11:00 - [2712] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 10:11:08 Originally by: Avon Originally by: alpheon Originally by: Avon Originally by: Vantras Post it everywhere as far as I am concerend. If the rumors/screenshots/msn chat/logs are ALL false then the truth will prevail. But unfortunately then damage will already have been done. That is exactly why it is the WRONG thing to do. ... snip for character limit ... Lifes ruined or ended because people thought that they knew best. The lynch mob mentality is not a sign of a civilised society, and it is something to be frowned upon. It is not cool, or clever, or helpful to think that just because you don't like the system you have the right to take the law in to your own hands. The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out. But that is not the goal here, is it? This isn't about justice and fairness, is it? It is about serving a broader agenda, and that is what is so frustrating. Even my kids have grown out of the "play my way or I'll take my ball back" mentality. This thread is an example of people stoming their feet because they aren't getting their own way. It is akin to blackmailing CCP. "Do what we say or we'll ruin your image, blackening your name throughout the entire internet." Cheating is wrong, but when revealed it should be dealt with in the correct manner. There really is no excuse for the "threadnaught" approach. If anything it only serves to polarise the community, rather than bringing them together in the interests of honesty and fair-play. The problem Avon, is that when it was presented in the right manner, it was ignored, deleted, and censored. Petitions were erased, and closed. CCP has a great history of trying to brush the dirty secrets under the covers, when the past repeats its self, the only way to be sure that the story gets out is to make sure EVERYONE sees it.Its already been acknowledged that the DEV's and GM's have done wrong in the past, forgive the masses for not being surprised that its happened again. I beg to differ. It has already been stated that the Goons decided NOT to use the correct method of raising this issue (which, with any allegation involving CCP misconduct, is to email the IA department directly - not petitions or forum posting). The goal was to generate public outcry, not over misconduct, but over an allegation of misconuct. Ironic that one of the claims which is central to their arguement is people using inappropriate methods of communication with CCP, when that is exactly what they are doing here. This isn't about getting answers, otherwise why post at the end of business on a Friday? The "dramabomb" has been, from all accounts, been incomming for quite a while (it is mentioned in other threads for quite a while now). This is about manipulation of the community to put pressure on CCP based on allegations, and to rally the community to the call of a Goon Jihad. And, let's be honest, it is attaining the desired goal. We see people claiming to have cancelled their accounts, we see other websites proclaiming the ongoing corruption of CCP, and we witness the rage (of what was once the best MMOG community I have ever been part of) that people are being whipped up to feel - and all over some allegations. That is why this was done, not because the correct avenues were closed. Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe it is) that they're true? What's the REAL harm in having a public discussion?
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:12:00 - [2713] Originally by: Avon Ironic that one of the claims which is central to their arguement is people using inappropriate methods of communication with CCP, when that is exactly what they are doing here. Except that we have to resort to our inappropriate method of communication because we, like 99.99% of the game, are not privileged enough to have access to your inappropriate method of communication.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:12:00 - [2714] Edited by: Shinigami on 27/05/2007 10:12:20 Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Shinigami - I am sorry, but with a name like 'Reikoku' on your charecter, frankly your opinion counts for **.... So that means your two man alt corp character counts for less than ** right? --- Dianabolic speaks about BoB's developer relationship. Lag Killer
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:17:00 - [2715] Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 27/05/2007 10:12:20 Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Shinigami - I am sorry, but with a name like 'Reikoku' on your charecter, frankly your opinion counts for **.... So that means your two man alt corp character counts for less than ** right? how about ignore the alts and talk to the mains it's sickening watching this game of "smoke & mirrors" being played...having the real issues be ignored....have any and all proof ignored rather than DISPROVED with undeniable facts
Indomitus Rex Amarr H.Y.D.R.A. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:17:00 - [2716] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Hrin Isn't it weird that the goons are the good guys? Or is it maybe just a bit of social engineering to make us think that? Neither side in this latest event has provided any proof of the matter one way or the other that couldnt have been fabricated. I find it especially amusing that this "open letter to CCP" was released after normal CCP business hours on a Friday, so CCP would be at a disadvantage to release any public statement until Monday. Before we all get our undies in a twist, try to realise that its the weekend and them CCP bigwigs might be off duty. Wait till the monday business day has come and gone before we all fly off the handle. -- Sadly Not many who are still following this thread will even read nor comprehend my post, and most will just lable me as a supporter of one side or the other. /me sigh Seems to me like we Goons are the only ones bothering to report any shady stuff going down these days. Remember, Goons didn't put CCP Admiral Loser in as their director. . .he did. Goons didn't immediately ban an ISD guy for not running around like a slave for Bobbits in local. CCP did. Isn't this the same lame tactics BOB and their fanbois always use tho? Use ad hominem attacks. . .attack the messenger. . .claim innocence (after sticking their foot in their mouths w/ one of their top dimwits like Diana or dbp). . .and then spam the forums worse than Goons w/ their alts while blaming Goons for spam themselves and trying to kill EVE? And btw. . .I hope your sig gets cut since it's quite a bit over the line. Unless we're just going to all collectively decide that rules don't matter and hey, if you have devs on MSN chat 24/7 to help you out it ain't no big deal. Deutschland. And ya just don't get it. . .keep it copacetic. . .and ya learn to accept it. . .and oh you're so pathetic....
Saphert Kronitius	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:17:00 - [2717] Well, I only got to page 46 before I choose to stop reading any further. From what I gather is there's some crap between BoB and GS, and I could care less. The thing that gets me going, and as a new player, causes certain questions to come to mind that have not been answered yet is this. A BoB member admitted that they are "friends" with the dev's and chat with them via a service OUTSIDE of EVE for EVE related items. This is a HUGE disparity and gives the players with that access an unfair advantage, period. I don't care if it was used with good or selfish intentions, the simple fact that it WAS/IS used and it is NOT available to other players is unprofessional and unethical of the CCP employees. The people that provided this exterior channel need to be reprimanded as well as those that used that channel. Period. CCP needs to do something to regain the players trust, as it is we, the players, who pay their wages, and deserve answers to this issue. The only way I see that happening is by letting us know what the outcome of this all is. I'm neither for nor against BoB or GS, this is not an Alt, this is my main and only character.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:17:00 - [2718] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:18:00 - [2719] Originally by: Marovinchian I think you are missing the flipside of this coin, Is it fair that goons have one of thier members in isd bumping bob dreadnaughts in a very hostile situation while being invincible? ... Quote: Maybe THINK before YOU post, basically you are saying that ccp employees interfering with bob gameplay = ok, but bob members having the interfering employee dealt with = not ok? Maybe READ before you post? Or is it new BoB directive, to spin story into "goon member bumping BoB dread"?
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:18:00 - [2720] Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 27/05/2007 10:12:20 Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Shinigami - I am sorry, but with a name like 'Reikoku' on your charecter, frankly your opinion counts for **.... So that means your two man alt corp character counts for less than ** right? Check my employment history; I am no alt - how low can BoB go.....?
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:18:00 - [2721] Edited by: Stahlregen on 27/05/2007 10:17:23 Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 27/05/2007 10:12:20 Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Shinigami - I am sorry, but with a name like 'Reikoku' on your charecter, frankly your opinion counts for **.... So that means your two man alt corp character counts for less than ** right? Yeah that's exactly what it means What do you mean?
SFShootme The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:18:00 - [2722] fix to everything: CCP should not play their own game. Tho shall give Life, for Life.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:19:00 - [2723] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? if petitions are private, then why do orange species and other leading bob heads know exactly how many times and exactly which players were petitioning them?
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:21:00 - [2724] Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Malloc Memrel ... I love how some random guy says he worked at blizzard and people just believe whatever he says. sigh I believe the man because what he says a)makes intuitive sense b) makes business sense c)makes ethical sense. Do you expect him to send you his CV in the mail? Why not look at his experience and advice he is relating? He rings true to me. Whereas your disavowal of his posting lacks content, reasons, or... anything really. If he's not what he represents himself as, he certainly fakes it rather well. If you have some constructive info to add or critique, by all means feel free. He's adding to the discussion, whereas you are currently not. Sorry. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:22:00 - [2725] Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Check my employment history; I am no alt - how low can BoB go.....? You have been in a 2 man corp your entire eve career. Smells like an alt to me. --- Dianabolic speaks about BoB's developer relationship. Lag Killer
Captain Thunk Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:23:00 - [2726] Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Malloc Memrel ... I love how some random guy says he worked at blizzard and people just believe whatever he says. No idea who he works for, but what he's saying makes a lot of sense I think that's why people give merit to what he's saying. Avon: The correct methods of emailing or petitioning seem to be bypassed by your alliance using MSN, therein lies the problem. You need to understand that you can't pass this off with "Goons are destroying Eve" propaganda - step back and take a look at the big picture - it's not goons, it's your alliance thats doing a good job of annihilating trust and faith in CCP. It's always your alliance at the centre of these allegations. It's your alliance that intentionally inflame the situation with "devs are our pals, so what?"(nice sig btw Shinigami). You're the ones who have forum signatures inferring GM cheating. What we have here is a two tier system, which is not acceptable to the majority of people playing the game as is made clear by this forum thread. BoB are the cancer of Eve, I'm just hoping people will see that before it's too late CAPTAIN THUNK See this hook? variable speed and five alternate attatchments baby.
Straw Man	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:25:00 - [2727] Bottom line is this: No Matter the outcome, there will ALWAYS be the question now of "Is there DEV involvement in <insert corp here>" this will apply to ANY corp from this moment forward. This will be hard to scrub clean, if not impossible for CCP. It takes forever to get a good reputation, but only seconds to ruin it. For me, this game has gone downhill as of this point because of the above question that will always linger... We work hard to earn the stuff we get in game to play the game and having someone cheat or even the lingering question IF someone is cheating ruins that completely. This isn't like other MMO's where you die, you get XP debt and have to work it off. You die here, you have to build up your stuff again, pay to update your clone if you get podded, and if you don't - your shafted more. In the end, EVE will endure - the player base is too large to have a mass exodus and CCP knows this. I predict only about 2-4 months until another CCP/DEV scandal. Regardless of the outcome of this one. -- "It is a rare mind indeed that can render the hitherto non-existent blindingly obvious." - Doug Adams --
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:27:00 - [2728] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? I see where you're coming from, but as a student of history and government, I'll always trust transparency and the dissemination of knowledge over trust in a corporation that has shown itself to be self-interested and censor happy in the past (CCP, not you). Ideally, you're right. However, where does it say that allegations of in-game abuses must be dealt with via email? Was it mentioned in the first goon post on the subject? No, that thread was deleted out of hand. One inappropriate method of communication is getting or has the potential to get special favors for an in-game group. Another one is being used to get the first one investigated. While both unfortunate, there isn't really parity there. I think we can both agree that this situation sucks, but it'd be nice to see a bigger commitment on the part of your group to find out the truth of the matter and eliminate any wrongdoing or appearance of wrongdoing rather than trying to spin it some other way. The spin isn't going to take; the quickest way to get this over with is to have CCP get the investigation and ACTIONS rolling.
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:27:00 - [2729] Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Check my employment history; I am no alt - how low can BoB go.....? You have been in a 2 man corp your entire eve career. Smells like an alt to me. Shinigami - you have a motive - I don't. I have posted less than 10 times in this forum since I signed up 3 years ago. I have enjoyed going about my business exploring EVE as a solo player, and have actually been able to access all content without whoring for some major corp. But this 'development' (no pun intended) is making me sick. Even if it doesn't affect my playing experience in a major way (being solo!!), it is a matter of principle - pure and simple. Why don't you stay out of the discussion when you are clearly neither constructive nor unbiased? Jeez - this a a kindergarden.......
Pirate Logistics	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:29:00 - [2730] you know what in my real life I wish you could see that this happens!!! its life. A off duty doctor treats a friend who just got i'll, people will still complain as they have been waiting months and not been seen. It is the way of life not just EvE, in the jobs I do I can't count the amount of times ive been asked for favours!!! you could then say this is just a game and is nothing like real life, yet as gamers we are looking for realistic graphics and gameplay. Does anyone here listen to radio 1, do you moan when chris moyles rings his mates live on air to talk too!!!! I must say for people moaning about this alot of u cheat/exploit eve. I have seen multiple times GOONS dropping cans around stations in 0.0 if you do this what other exploits have you done!!! I was only in 0.0 a few days and i saw this
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:30:00 - [2731] Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Malloc Memrel ... I love how some random guy says he worked at blizzard and people just believe whatever he says. What reason would he have to lie? Is it really that unbelievable to you that other companies are professionals where this crap doesn't fly? WHY?
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:30:00 - [2732] Originally by: SFShootme fix to everything:CCP should not play their own game. Allthough i understand it would suck not beeing able to play ones own game i'm starting to agree. Sadly i also fear this is a double edged sword, on 1 side it would be good if ccp employees have no ingame involvement whatsoever so no favoritism on the other side i'm afraid that detachment will make them lose connection too much with the playerbase which in the end might hurt the quality of the game even more (if they consider it just another job then why bother going the extra distance to introduce that cool feature and so on) CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:31:00 - [2733] Originally by: Pirate Logistics you know what in my real life I wish you could see that this happens!!! its life. A off duty doctor treats a friend who just got i'll, people will still complain as they have been waiting months and not been seen. It is the way of life not just EvE, in the jobs I do I can't count the amount of times ive been asked for favours!!! you could then say this is just a game and is nothing like real life, yet as gamers we are looking for realistic graphics and gameplay. Does anyone here listen to radio 1, do you moan when chris moyles rings his mates live on air to talk too!!!! I must say for people moaning about this alot of u cheat/exploit eve. I have seen multiple times GOONS dropping cans around stations in 0.0 if you do this what other exploits have you done!!! I was only in 0.0 a few days and i saw this dropping cans is an exploit?
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:33:00 - [2734] Originally by: Avon No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:33:00 - [2735] Originally by: Stradiot it's sickening watching this game of "smoke & mirrors" being played...having the real issues be ignored....have any and all proof ignored rather than DISPROVED with undeniable facts You are perfectly aware of what GoonSwarm is trying to accomplish. Indeed, smoke & mirrors.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:33:00 - [2736] Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Check my employment history; I am no alt - how low can BoB go.....? You have been in a 2 man corp your entire eve career. Smells like an alt to me. Shinigami - you have a motive - I don't. I have posted less than 10 times in this forum since I signed up 3 years ago. I have enjoyed going about my business exploring EVE as a solo player, and have actually been able to access all content without whoring for some major corp. But this 'development' (no pun intended) is making me sick. Even if it doesn't affect my playing experience in a major way (being solo!!), it is a matter of principle - pure and simple. Why don't you stay out of the discussion when you are clearly neither constructive nor unbiased? Jeez - this a a kindergarden....... A lot of people enjoying EVE in small corps or groups or even solo. As hard as it may be for BoB members to accept, their brand of play isn't even aspired to by a wide section of the player base. I still am somewhat confused why alt posting isn't allowed to stand or fall on the basis of it's ideas, not how old it is. Ignoring arguments because someone might be an alt strikes me as a copout with timebased elitism as the basis. What other explanation is there? And for the third time, for those of you who didn't read, my main got banned for posting in one of the early goon threads yesterday. It'll be unbanned soon now. Maybe I'll bring it here...or maybe I'll keep posting with Elmo and let you guys make yourself look real good by ignoring me based solely on when I joined.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:34:00 - [2737] Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Check my employment history; I am no alt - how low can BoB go.....? You have been in a 2 man corp your entire eve career. Smells like an alt to me. Shinigami - you have a motive - I don't. I have posted less than 10 times in this forum since I signed up 3 years ago. I have enjoyed going about my business exploring EVE as a solo player, and have actually been able to access all content without whoring for some major corp. But this 'development' (no pun intended) is making me sick. Even if it doesn't affect my playing experience in a major way (being solo!!), it is a matter of principle - pure and simple. Why don't you stay out of the discussion when you are clearly neither constructive nor unbiased? Jeez - this a a kindergarden....... it's too late, bob have already proven themselves to be immune to logic, facts, or reason..just as supercapitals are currently immune to ewar...unless they decide to see this issue in the proper context (broken trust between players and the company), rather than seeing this as an issue that is relating to a fictional war in a fictional universe of internet spaceships, their responses will continue to be the same
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:34:00 - [2738] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stradiot it's sickening watching this game of "smoke & mirrors" being played...having the real issues be ignored....have any and all proof ignored rather than DISPROVED with undeniable facts You are perfectly aware of what GoonSwarm is trying to accomplish. Indeed, smoke & mirrors. I'm not. Please explain.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:35:00 - [2739] Originally by: Stradiot dropping cans is an exploit? Actually, yes. You can leave the cans of people you kill, but you are not allowed to drop cans at station exits. However, I don't see how accusations of Goons cheating makes much difference in this thread. We know they do / have done, and much worse than dropping cans. But, if you want to have a thread about goon exploits, start a new one, because this one is bad enough already. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:35:00 - [2740] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stradiot it's sickening watching this game of "smoke & mirrors" being played...having the real issues be ignored....have any and all proof ignored rather than DISPROVED with undeniable facts You are perfectly aware of what GoonSwarm is trying to accomplish. Indeed, smoke & mirrors. hey look, another alt post with no facts in it
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:36:00 - [2741] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Stradiot dropping cans is an exploit? Actually, yes. You can leave the cans of people you kill, but you are not allowed to drop cans at station exits. However, I don't see how accusations of Goons cheating makes much difference in this thread. We know they do / have done, and much worse than dropping cans. But, if you want to have a thread about goon exploits, start a new one, because this one is bad enough already. Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Avon No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace.
mephistophelian	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:37:00 - [2742] hmm i dont like this one bit imho none of the CCP employees should be able to join a "proper" corp, simply because this is the outcome admittedly it wouldnt stop the exploits/scams etc etc i have had no involvement with any part of the big war and i couldnt care less who wins but when CCP are swinging the favour towards BoB it simply sickens me well i have heard that (in the future) SERENITY (firefly series) is being made into an MMORPG (still working on the licensing atm) along the lines of EvE and the original SWG (before sony messed it up) so anybody who is thinking of leaving maybe take a look in that direction i certainly will
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:37:00 - [2743] Originally by: 000Hunter000 Allthough i understand it would suck not beeing able to play ones own game i'm starting to agree. We're not saying they shouldn't be able to play the game, they just shouldn't be playing it alongside fee paying customers. It would be trivial for CCP to set up an internal server and run the "devs vs GMs" war to end all wars. As to keeping connection with customers, that's also relatively trivial to maintain and should be no problem as long as the channels for doing so are public and well advertised.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:37:00 - [2744] Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 10:37:58 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Stradiot dropping cans is an exploit? Actually, yes. You can leave the cans of people you kill, but you are not allowed to drop cans at station exits. However, I don't see how accusations of Goons cheating makes much difference in this thread. We know they do / have done, and much worse than dropping cans. But, if you want to have a thread about goon exploits, start a new one, because this one is bad enough already. if dropping cans at a station undock is considered an exploit (although it is within the games mechanics to do so), then please explain why "pos-bowling" WASN'T considered an exploit (seeing as how nobody was punished for it) edit: we're going off topic, let's go back to the issue of how bob can disprove that there is collusion and corruption going on..and if they CAN'T disprove it, then what will be done about this..and even IF something will be done about this..will it be enough?
George Petsch Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:37:00 - [2745] Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stradiot it's sickening watching this game of "smoke & mirrors" being played...having the real issues be ignored....have any and all proof ignored rather than DISPROVED with undeniable facts You are perfectly aware of what GoonSwarm is trying to accomplish. Indeed, smoke & mirrors. hey look, another alt post with no facts in it fyi, it's blacklight.
Perseus D'Solos	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:38:00 - [2746] No matter how all this plays out, what is true and what is not, one thing is clear: CCP REALLY needs to send the people who're responsible for dealing with all this, on a PR crisis management course, ASAP. AAAA = Acknowledge, Act and Adapt, Apologize. Acknowledge there is a problem; do not come with lame attempts to explain away the situation, or to downplay any statements made. You will only anger alot of people that way. Also, do not apply heavy handed censorship; this, if anything, will make alot of people very angry. Transparency is your friend; the opposite makes people feel that you have something to hide. Act. Take action, real quick, and do it right. Again, transparency is your friend. Adapt. Make sure nothing similar can happen again. Censure employes, change policies, rules, tools, access... Do what needs to be done. Every satisfied customer is worth a new customer, every disgruntled customer loses you ten, or perhaps more, potential customers. A bad reputation spreads faster than gaseous gangrene. Apologize, even when there is little to apologize for. Humility is your friend.
Solothores Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:39:00 - [2747] Edited by: Solothores on 27/05/2007 10:38:17 Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Malloc Memrel ... I love how some random guy says he worked at blizzard and people just believe whatever he says. Originally by: Lum The posting by the ex-Blizzard GM tracks with the Acceptable Use Policies most MMO companies have. They're almost all identical - never log into a live server with extra access unless it's strictly necessary for your job, various levels of "don't tell people you work for the company" (which are ignored more often than not, since people like to talk, but do usually serve to prevent trading on your position for in-game favors), and above all never, never, ever affect in-game play with your knowledge and/or abilities gained outside the game itself. I'm somewhat surprised that CCP would ever have GMs log into the game visibly. When I was at a seminar with some CCP folks they were quite proud of the fact that the game could essentially be played completely from a SQL client. Most games today have specialized CS tools (writing one of these was my first job for Mythic, actually) that keep GMs from having to actually log into the game to do their jobs... it's a lot quicker to have a centralized tool to talk to players, examine data, etc. Now, if a GM wanted to mad cheatz0r for his friends by looking up factory builds or whatever, there's no reason why he'd ever need to be visible to players to do that. He should be able to analyze that level of data without ever logging in. Of course I'm completely talking out of my ass, and have no idea what level of tool support Eve has, or what AUP they have. But they do seem to have a problem - at a bare minimum, a problem with perception, if naught else. Which makes that last little tidbit - a GM smacktalking in public chat - so worrisome. In any game whatsoever that would be utterly, utterly beyond the pale. In Eve given the current hullaballoo, it's either malicious rumormongering or it's suicidal.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:39:00 - [2748] Originally by: Avon Originally by: alpheon Originally by: Avon Originally by: Vantras Post it everywhere as far as I am concerend. If the rumors/screenshots/msn chat/logs are ALL false then the truth will prevail. But unfortunately then damage will already have been done. That is exactly why it is the WRONG thing to do. ... snip for character limit ... Lifes ruined or ended because people thought that they knew best. The lynch mob mentality is not a sign of a civilised society, and it is something to be frowned upon. It is not cool, or clever, or helpful to think that just because you don't like the system you have the right to take the law in to your own hands. The correct action here would have been to raise your concerns with the IA department, and to wait for an investigation to be carried out. But that is not the goal here, is it? This isn't about justice and fairness, is it? It is about serving a broader agenda, and that is what is so frustrating. Even my kids have grown out of the "play my way or I'll take my ball back" mentality. This thread is an example of people stoming their feet because they aren't getting their own way. It is akin to blackmailing CCP. "Do what we say or we'll ruin your image, blackening your name throughout the entire internet." Cheating is wrong, but when revealed it should be dealt with in the correct manner. There really is no excuse for the "threadnaught" approach. If anything it only serves to polarise the community, rather than bringing them together in the interests of honesty and fair-play. The problem Avon, is that when it was presented in the right manner, it was ignored, deleted, and censored. Petitions were erased, and closed. CCP has a great history of trying to brush the dirty secrets under the covers, when the past repeats its self, the only way to be sure that the story gets out is to make sure EVERYONE sees it.Its already been acknowledged that the DEV's and GM's have done wrong in the past, forgive the masses for not being surprised that its happened again. I beg to differ. It has already been stated that the Goons decided NOT to use the correct method of raising this issue (which, with any allegation involving CCP misconduct, is to email the IA department directly - not petitions or forum posting). The goal was to generate public outcry, not over misconduct, but over an allegation of misconuct. Ironic that one of the claims which is central to their arguement is people using inappropriate methods of communication with CCP, when that is exactly what they are doing here. This isn't about getting answers, otherwise why post at the end of business on a Friday? The "dramabomb" has been, from all accounts, been incomming for quite a while (it is mentioned in other threads for quite a while now). This is about manipulation of the community to put pressure on CCP based on allegations, and to rally the community to the call of a Goon Jihad. And, let's be honest, it is attaining the desired goal. We see people claiming to have cancelled their accounts, we see other websites proclaiming the ongoing corruption of CCP, and we witness the rage (of what was once the best MMOG community I have ever been part of) that people are being whipped up to feel - and all over some allegations. That is why this was done, not because the correct avenues were closed. Didnt the corp that got humped by the ccp employee petition it and try to talk to them with out any respons and deleted petitions? Is it then not safe to assume that it will also be pointless to e-mail CCP to get answeres? Had the corp had devs on MSN they might have gotten a answere but not all are so fortunate, eh?
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:40:00 - [2749] Edited by: Stahlregen on 27/05/2007 10:41:22 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? Again, Everything you bring up in this post has already been adressed many, many times over many, many pages in this thread. The proper channels were tried, petitions were deleted and the original thread was outright deleted. The only reason you are now ***ing about us bringing these allegations into the public is because they were covered up by CCP in the begining. Again, The allegations put forth were that CCP is unable or unwilling to police itself and ensure that there is no corruption- if a private internal investigation was carried out the result would be utterly meaningless because you can't use your own internal staff investigate something that they, as a whole have been accused of. Nice choice of wording, But again, We don't think** the right method will not work. We went for it and tried it but surprise! It didn't work! (The existence of this thread is the proof) You then go off on some tangent to try and rationalise using MSN because we threadnoughted, even though the threadnought was a direct result of you being caught using MSN? This is really the fundamental difference between us here: Your arguments are not constructed with any real sense of logic and therefore fall to pieces as soon as anyone takes the slightest bit of effort to debate you on it. And you of course end it by saying that we think it's okay to use threadnoughts and MSN to talk to CCP employees. Allow me to retort, Yes we do think it's okay to use threadnoughts for reasons as i have stated in this post. No we don't support using MSN as that's what we are accusing you of, not the other way around chief.
Caoim Fearghul Caldari Fearghul Corp Dark Synergy	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:40:00 - [2750] Originally by: Pirate Logistics you know what in my real life I wish you could see that this happens!!! its life. A off duty doctor treats a friend who just got i'll, people will still complain as they have been waiting months and not been seen. Except, if the off duty doctor just wandered in and used the hospital facilities for thier friend and bypassed all the normal procedures, cut the queue for the operating theatre or whatever...they'd be up in front a disciplinary committee and have a good chance of having thier license to practice revoked by an ethics committee. Quote: It is the way of life not just EvE, in the jobs I do I can't count the amount of times ive been asked for favours!!! You'll find that doing favours for friends can get you into a world of trouble if you have some kind of official standing. If you want a real world example, take a look at the history of David Blunkett. Quote: you could then say this is just a game and is nothing like real life, yet as gamers we are looking for realistic graphics and gameplay. And a fair playing field. Quote: Does anyone here listen to radio 1, do you moan when chris moyles rings his mates live on air to talk too!!!! Jebus Frellin' Crimbo, could you manage anything more of a non-sequiter? Chris Moyles provides an entertainment service, it is a show...you do not directly participate in it, and there is no pretense that you are on a level field with his friends when it comes to getting on the show. Quote: I must say for people moaning about this alot of u cheat/exploit eve. I have seen multiple times GOONS dropping cans around stations in 0.0 if you do this what other exploits have you done!!! I was only in 0.0 a few days and i saw this Oh yeah...that's a major exploit right there...not like getting T2 BPO's or having people banned for failing to follow your commands...no siree... Prodesse Non Nocere
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:40:00 - [2751] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? One thing to keep in mind Avon. Every other channel for giving the information was tried before the threadnaught was launched and came back with nothing but silence, not even a basic acknowledgement. The petition filed asking about the issue was deleted with no response, feedback or well...anything. Convo's and pms to the GMs in question got no response (although ths in itself isn't that unusal I'll admit). A well written non flame bait forum post was made asking about the situations involved wasn't just modded, it was outright locked and delete within 30 seconds of being posted with again, no feedback or response. The threadonaught may not have been the preferable way to get this information out and get a response but so far it has been the only proven way that actually works even while CCP harps on about transparancy and so on. Any other attempt is met with silence and cenorship and even forum/ingame bannings for anyone that even mentions it.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:41:00 - [2752] Originally by: Stradiot if dropping cans at a station undock is considered an exploit (although it is within the games mechanics to do so), then please explain why "pos-bowling" WASN'T considered an exploit (seeing as how nobody was punished for it) I have no idea. I know that IAC pretty much invented it. BoB did it for a while (as did others). Shrike was asked to stop by a GM, and did so. Evil Thug was apparently told that in fact it wasn't an exploit and that bowling was a legitimate game mechanic. Shirke, upon hearing that it was allowed, resumed bowling. I guess if anyone had a GM in their pocket over that one it wasn't BoB. More likely, however, is that different GMs handled the same situation in different ways, and the most senior descision became policy. Personally I think it is dumb, but I don't make the rules. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:41:00 - [2753] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex I went to try Vendetta Online last night. While doing tutorials and asking some questions in chat, people asked me where I found out about the game. I told them eve-online forums. Just about everyone there bursted out laughing, and welcomed me even more. Guess why... Oooo is it good? I used to spend ages talking people into trying eve.. i've brought a lot of my friends and co workers into the game... Since the T20 issue i havent asked anyone else to play, and now im reconsidering if its worth playing myself as well. To those saying "We should wait till the long weekend is over, give the devs time to investigate!!" remember, none of these rumors are in anyway new. They are old. A lot of people have known about aurora being dodgy for a long time. The guy who stepped down recently as head of aurora is reported to be high up in bob... surprised anybody? As with T20.. at least some of the Devs/Head GMs are fully aware of not only the accusations but a lot of the truths behind the events that are being revealed now. Once again I think we will discover that CCP found out about this a long time ago and chose not to tell the customers anything. If i was to take a guess, I would say that they will say that the old head of Aurora was found out for cheating and asked to resign and that everything now is all a-ok. It is not. I was in pure blind for the last "event" that it had seen, the only one it had seen for years, BoB playing with aurora and then going home cash in hand...
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:41:00 - [2754] Originally by: George Petsch Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stradiot it's sickening watching this game of "smoke & mirrors" being played...having the real issues be ignored....have any and all proof ignored rather than DISPROVED with undeniable facts You are perfectly aware of what GoonSwarm is trying to accomplish. Indeed, smoke & mirrors. hey look, another alt post with no facts in it fyi, it's blacklight. i should've guessed, considering his post amounted to nothing more than the equivalent of "i know you are but what am i"
Dray Caldari Endgame.	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:42:00 - [2755] The rights or wrongs of this issue come down to one thing, and one thing only, will it affect subscriptions. If it does then something will probably be done, if not then it will be brushed under the carpet like last time. Personally this issue and the last dosent trouble me or how i play the game, but it was worrying nonetheless. The t20 affair left a bad taste in the mouth but ive got 3 acc's 2 of which are 57M and 60M sp's, as much as it f**ked me off how the t20 affair was handled I dont want to lose 2 highly skilled chars that I invested my time and money in to play a game I still enjoy, albeit not as much. Bottom line is that if the player base remains pretty much constant, ie no mass cancellations, then they will do as they please and you will just have to suck it up. I have never been part of any big ingame alliance for almost 2 years because i have no faith in the game being 100% fair and unbiased where gm's/devs are allowed to play, I know that their participation makes a difference to how the game developes but now its time to look at the benefits of that decision againts the drawbacks.
Naddz	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:42:00 - [2756] God.... after reading all of this from scratch came up with two conclusions. 1: EvE Online will endure all BoB and Dev Scandals, because the game is about more than just an arrogant alliance 2: EvE Online is a GAME open to the public. This means ANYONE be they prince, pauper or prat can play it.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:44:00 - [2757] Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? One thing to keep in mind Avon. Every other channel for giving the information was tried before the threadnaught was launched and came back with nothing but silence, not even a basic acknowledgement. The petition filed asking about the issue was deleted with no response, feedback or well...anything. Convo's and pms to the GMs in question got no response (although ths in itself isn't that unusal I'll admit). A well written non flame bait forum post was made asking about the situations involved wasn't just modded, it was outright locked and delete within 30 seconds of being posted with again, no feedback or response. The threadonaught may not have been the preferable way to get this information out and get a response but so far it has been the only proven way that actually works even while CCP harps on about transparancy and so on. Any other attempt is met with silence and cenorship and even forum/ingame bannings for anyone that even mentions it. So the claims in this very thread that IA was not emailed directly (as Arkanon could not be trusted to police this fairly) are lies? So how much of the rest of this are lies? Was the IA department emailed directly (as is the correct reporting method) before the threadnaught or not? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Don Hicks Dirty Labs	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:44:00 - [2758] Originally by: Pirate Logistics you know what in my real life I wish you could see that this happens!!! its life. A off duty doctor treats a friend who just got i'll, people will still complain as they have been waiting months and not been seen. It is the way of life not just EvE, in the jobs I do I can't count the amount of times ive been asked for favours!!! you could then say this is just a game and is nothing like real life, yet as gamers we are looking for realistic graphics and gameplay. Does anyone here listen to radio 1, do you moan when chris moyles rings his mates live on air to talk too!!!! I must say for people moaning about this alot of u cheat/exploit eve. I have seen multiple times GOONS dropping cans around stations in 0.0 if you do this what other exploits have you done!!! I was only in 0.0 a few days and i saw this i play eve bcause it is not like rl... and when Chris Moyles rights his mates you can switch to another channel if u dont like it, or stay tuned bcause most of times its a good laugh...
Dwaggysnaxx	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:45:00 - [2759] Fanfest is going to ~kick ass~
Pirate Logistics	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:45:00 - [2760] dropping cans is not a exploit however the manner goons and others do it outside stations is.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:46:00 - [2761] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? One thing to keep in mind Avon. Every other channel for giving the information was tried before the threadnaught was launched and came back with nothing but silence, not even a basic acknowledgement. The petition filed asking about the issue was deleted with no response, feedback or well...anything. Convo's and pms to the GMs in question got no response (although ths in itself isn't that unusal I'll admit). A well written non flame bait forum post was made asking about the situations involved wasn't just modded, it was outright locked and delete within 30 seconds of being posted with again, no feedback or response. The threadonaught may not have been the preferable way to get this information out and get a response but so far it has been the only proven way that actually works even while CCP harps on about transparancy and so on. Any other attempt is met with silence and cenorship and even forum/ingame bannings for anyone that even mentions it. So the claims in this very thread that IA was not emailed directly (as Arkanon could not be trusted to police this fairly) are lies? So how much of the rest of this are lies? Was the IA department emailed directly (as is the correct reporting method) before the threadnaught or not? 1: Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace. 2: I am not a goon, so don't take anything I said about whether they emailled or not as gospel truth.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:46:00 - [2762] Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 10:48:14 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Stradiot if dropping cans at a station undock is considered an exploit (although it is within the games mechanics to do so), then please explain why "pos-bowling" WASN'T considered an exploit (seeing as how nobody was punished for it) I have no idea. I know that IAC pretty much invented it. BoB did it for a while (as did others). Shrike was asked to stop by a GM, and did so. Evil Thug was apparently told that in fact it wasn't an exploit and that bowling was a legitimate game mechanic. Shirke, upon hearing that it was allowed, resumed bowling. I guess if anyone had a GM in their pocket over that one it wasn't BoB. More likely, however, is that different GMs handled the same situation in different ways, and the most senior descision became policy. Personally I think it is dumb, but I don't make the rules. just because you don't make the rules doesn't mean you shouldn't question them frankly, i don't care if bob wins and goonfleet disbands, if it's the only way to force CCP to fire every single person that was involved with collusion and corruption..and create a new system in which it can be guaranteed that nobody gets perks or secret information from employees/insiders, and all rules enforced by CCP are enforced equally and consistently edit: as well as preventing insiders and employees from getting themselves into a position where their insider information or dev/gm privileges can be abused also the other way around..where loyal people of ANY faction end up in a CCP job where their past ties to other players or groups of players would be a conflict of interests
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:47:00 - [2763] Originally by: Vasili Z Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Vasili Z This entire thing is a huge zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... Thanks for this insightful contribution. It's good to see that you care about integrity and fair play, regardless of who is harmed or benefited. Ya, because you were harmed so much, your entire reason to play is ruined, you better quit now. You will never recover from this, ever. God, go play a new spaceship game.... When you grow up, you will learn that in real-world it doesn't only matter if someone harmed YOU or did something bad that affected only YOU. Some people gave their lives trying to make sure others can have same rights and privileges. But I guess "ME, ME, ME" is the only thing that matters these days. If it affected only ME, then it's bad. If it didn't affect ME - I don't give a flying ****. I am more upset if that reporter got fired in the way it is described, than if someone cheated to kill me. Me dying to cheaters - I can live with. Someone getting fired/banned because of 'friendly ties' - I can't live with. For all I know, I could be next...
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:48:00 - [2764] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Stradiot if dropping cans at a station undock is considered an exploit (although it is within the games mechanics to do so), then please explain why "pos-bowling" WASN'T considered an exploit (seeing as how nobody was punished for it) I have no idea. I know that IAC pretty much invented it. BoB did it for a while (as did others). Shrike was asked to stop by a GM, and did so. Evil Thug was apparently told that in fact it wasn't an exploit and that bowling was a legitimate game mechanic. Shirke, upon hearing that it was allowed, resumed bowling. I guess if anyone had a GM in their pocket over that one it wasn't BoB. More likely, however, is that different GMs handled the same situation in different ways, and the most senior descision became policy. Personally I think it is dumb, but I don't make the rules. So why would you bring up an accusation that goonfleet uses cans to spam undocks and much worse when you acknowledge that pretty much everyone, even your own members have left cans at undocks and then go into no detail about the "and much worse" bit beyond the line itself?
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:52:00 - [2765] Edited by: Stahlregen on 27/05/2007 10:52:47 Edited by: Stahlregen on 27/05/2007 10:51:40 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? One thing to keep in mind Avon. Every other channel for giving the information was tried before the threadnaught was launched and came back with nothing but silence, not even a basic acknowledgement. The petition filed asking about the issue was deleted with no response, feedback or well...anything. Convo's and pms to the GMs in question got no response (although ths in itself isn't that unusal I'll admit). A well written non flame bait forum post was made asking about the situations involved wasn't just modded, it was outright locked and delete within 30 seconds of being posted with again, no feedback or response. The threadonaught may not have been the preferable way to get this information out and get a response but so far it has been the only proven way that actually works even while CCP harps on about transparancy and so on. Any other attempt is met with silence and cenorship and even forum/ingame bannings for anyone that even mentions it. Was the IA department emailed directly (as is the correct reporting method) before the threadnaught or not? It was, Several times.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:58:00 - [2766] Originally by: Retsil Evad Originally by: Cheval Blanc At least in the US, numbers get treated equally. And believe me, I thought I'd be the last person to be defending American capitalism. Damn dude, whatever you are smoking is obviously some very strong stuff! Ypou could sell at $1000 an ounce! i don't disagree with you, but you're off topic cease and desist
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:59:00 - [2767] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? One thing to keep in mind Avon. Every other channel for giving the information was tried before the threadnaught was launched and came back with nothing but silence, not even a basic acknowledgement. The petition filed asking about the issue was deleted with no response, feedback or well...anything. Convo's and pms to the GMs in question got no response (although ths in itself isn't that unusal I'll admit). A well written non flame bait forum post was made asking about the situations involved wasn't just modded, it was outright locked and delete within 30 seconds of being posted with again, no feedback or response. The threadonaught may not have been the preferable way to get this information out and get a response but so far it has been the only proven way that actually works even while CCP harps on about transparancy and so on. Any other attempt is met with silence and cenorship and even forum/ingame bannings for anyone that even mentions it. So the claims in this very thread that IA was not emailed directly (as Arkanon could not be trusted to police this fairly) are lies? So how much of the rest of this are lies? Was the IA department emailed directly (as is the correct reporting method) before the threadnaught or not? I didn't mention the IA department aspect since I don't have the full story in that regard and wasn't going to start making up "facts". From what I gather people basically don't trust a simple e-mail to IA not to disappear into oblivion - make of that what you will, I've my own opinions.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:00:00 - [2768] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Stradiot i know you're trying to prove a point, but you're still ignoring evidence..it's one thing if you can solidly and concretely disprove the evidence provided..but it's another thing if you start talking about a non-issue that has nothing to do with collusion/corruption and all evidence surrounding those circumstances I'm just trying to ascertain what is actually evidence rather than fabrication. I'm sure you understand. i do understand..but you also have to understand that you can't disprove evidence through defamation of character
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:00:00 - [2769] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Stahlregen It was, Several times. So the statements that it wasn't were lies? So, how do we work out which goon claims are true, and which are inventions? Better reading comprehension and less clutching at straws, see here http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=526462&page=107#3203
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:00:00 - [2770] Originally by: Verone Page 107 \o/ Woo! Starts Looting What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:02:00 - [2771] Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Malloc Memrel ... I love how some random guy says he worked at blizzard and people just believe whatever he says. Because what he has to say sounds reasonable? At least he's not using ad hominem attacks like you are ... --
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:03:00 - [2772] Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 11:02:40 Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Malloc Memrel ... I love how some random guy says he worked at blizzard and people just believe whatever he says. Because what he has to say sounds reasonable? At least he's not using ad hominem attacks like you are ... quotin dis, because you're right..even if he didn't say anything about who he worked for, his post was logical, rational, and reasonable he understands what a "conflict of interests" is..and that's more than i can say for a lot of posters in this thread
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:09:00 - [2773] Originally by: Avon Thing is, it is actually pretty key to the allegations made, isn't it? I thought the keys to the allegations were that CCP clearly have problems policing their staff to ensure they remain unbiased and maintaining proper levels of customer support but clearly it's actually that goons post a lot.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:10:00 - [2774] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Wild Rho I didn't mention the IA department aspect since I don't have the full story in that regard and wasn't going to start making up "facts". From what I gather people basically don't trust a simple e-mail to IA not to disappear into oblivion - make of that what you will, I've my own opinions. Thing is, it is actually pretty key to the allegations made, isn't it? It is okay for some people to use the wrong avenues because they don't trust the right ones, but not for others? this issue isn't about whether goonfleet's threadnaughting was the right way to reach ccp...it's about the evidence that has been provided..it certainly doesn't help that in these last 108 pages, not a single person has been able to disprove any of it
Corvin Demeter	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:10:00 - [2775] Massive EVE Subscription Price Rise? I am on a trial account...two days ago the monthly sub was E14.99 or $14.99. Now it is one price on the website E19.95 (inc vat). The equivalent of nearly $28!! What is going on???
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:11:00 - [2776] Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 27/05/2007 11:07:50 Edited by: Shinigami on 27/05/2007 11:06:56 Originally by: Stradiot it's too late, bob have already proven themselves to be immune to logic, facts, or reason..just as supercapitals are currently immune to ewar...unless they decide to see this issue in the proper context (broken trust between players and the company), rather than seeing this as an issue that is relating to a fictional war in a fictional universe of internet spaceships, their responses will continue to be the same What do you want us to do? All we can do is wait and see what the result of the investigation is. The only other thing we can do for now is agree to disagree. Continuously aguing over inconclusive (possibly fake) evidence will get us nowhere. The only real evidence is in the logs stored on CCP's servers. I'm not going to take some bob hating ex ISD guy's rant seriously. Nor do I care about pasted chat logs. i know what inconclusive means..but the thing is that it isn't inconclusive
Fry Fortune Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:11:00 - [2777] No offense Avon, but everyone realises your just trying to make goons look as bad as bob on this one . The problem is, the rules should be the same for everyone, not 1 rule for goons, 1 rule for bob, and a third rule for everyone else. I honestly believe the rank and file of bob don't quite realise that in addition to being better than everyone else at fleet fights, spying, tactics etc, their leaders are aware of, and use their special relationship with ccp in ways 100% of the eve public object to. Winning is fun, everyone can agree on that. Winning by killing the game you love to win? I don't agree with that. (btw on the can dropping thingy, I believe a gm asked people to stop doing it in local, however, it is only an exploit if you drop the cans directly obstructing the undock, can art isn't an exploit unless you then classify it as an exploit under the "you may not create lag" thing.)
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:12:00 - [2778] Originally by: Corvin Demeter Massive EVE Subscription Price Rise? I am on a trial account...two days ago the monthly sub was E14.99 or $14.99. Now it is one price on the website E19.95 (inc vat). The equivalent of nearly $28!! What is going on??? this is the wrong thread for your post
Eaiaden	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:12:00 - [2779] How about all just stop the "quoting" and stay on the facts. FACT is, A GM accessed a POS without consent of the corp. FACT is, an ISD reporter has been banned after apparently BoB said in local he would call his dev friend on MSN and get him dealth with. Anything else i been reading on the last 108 pages is just mud throwing. @BoB - what do you expect, offcourse anyone will react the way they do if a GM joins your corp, gives himself director role and then leaves shortly after, no one can blame them ! @anti-BoB - Chill for a minute, this isent the work of BoB, they are just easy targets, the real problem is the GM that abuse his powers, not the gamer, dosent matter what side you are on. I am on the goon side in the war, and lets say just for sake of argument that it was goons that had the GM's in their pocket, wouldent you use them same way BoB does ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The only way to stop this from happening again is to stop the GM's from being active gamers on their GM accounts. Sure let them play, but on normal accounts.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:14:00 - [2780] Originally by: Corvin Demeter Massive EVE Subscription Price Rise? I am on a trial account...two days ago the monthly sub was E14.99 or $14.99. Now it is one price on the website E19.95 (inc vat). The equivalent of nearly $28!! What is going on??? You have to pay $19.95 for the client + 1 month free game time. --- Dianabolic speaks about BoB's developer relationship. Lag Killer
OhDaesu	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:14:00 - [2781] Originally by: Avon It is okay for some people to use the wrong avenues because they don't trust the right ones, but not for others? So, you're saying that Goons using a public forum threadnaught, is worse than BoB's CCP private hotline via MSN?
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:14:00 - [2782] Originally by: Eaiaden How about all just stop the "quoting" and stay on the facts. FACT is, A GM accessed a POS without consent of the corp. FACT is, an ISD reporter has been banned after apparently BoB said in local he would call his dev friend on MSN and get him dealth with. Anything else i been reading on the last 108 pages is just mud throwing. @BoB - what do you expect, offcourse anyone will react the way they do if a GM joins your corp, gives himself director role and then leaves shortly after, no one can blame them ! @anti-BoB - Chill for a minute, this isent the work of BoB, they are just easy targets, the real problem is the GM that abuse his powers, not the gamer, dosent matter what side you are on. I am on the goon side in the war, and lets say just for sake of argument that it was goons that had the GM's in their pocket, wouldent you use them same way BoB does ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The only way to stop this from happening again is to stop the GM's from being active gamers on their GM accounts. Sure let them play, but on normal accounts. allowing them to play on normal accounts doesn't stop them from sharing insider information with specific factions (doesn't matter if it's bob or goon)...sharing of insider information should not happen, period
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:15:00 - [2783] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? You're like Nixon complaining Woodward published the Watergate story instead of going to the FBI with it, you know that right? signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:16:00 - [2784] Originally by: OhDaesu Originally by: Avon It is okay for some people to use the wrong avenues because they don't trust the right ones, but not for others? So, you're saying that Goons using a public forum threadnaught, is worse than BoB's CCP private hotline via MSN? No, I am saying that the correct avenues are in place, and they should be used. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:16:00 - [2785] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? I wonder how bob would done in this war without their bugged complexes, spawned t2 bpo's and dev lead cap ship fleets.
Corvin Demeter	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:16:00 - [2786] Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Corvin Demeter Massive EVE Subscription Price Rise? I am on a trial account...two days ago the monthly sub was E14.99 or $14.99. Now it is one price on the website E19.95 (inc vat). The equivalent of nearly $28!! What is going on??? You have to pay $19.95 for the client + 1 month free game time. relief ...thanks...i'll shut-up now
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:16:00 - [2787] Originally by: Avon Originally by: OhDaesu Originally by: Avon It is okay for some people to use the wrong avenues because they don't trust the right ones, but not for others? So, you're saying that Goons using a public forum threadnaught, is worse than BoB's CCP private hotline via MSN? No, I am saying that the correct avenues are in place, and they should be used. They were, and deleted. How do you suggest that's dealt with?
Kay Han Caldari Friendship 7 Corporation YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:16:00 - [2788] WOW 3200+ postings in less then 36 hrs. You guys are really really awesome. What about stop *****ing around here, and let CCP do the investigestions (sp?). Ohhhhh wait.. CCP = BoB. forgot this.. my fault Maybe there was a bugged POS. Maybe not. The peeps in DS1 will know it. And just to give you something to think about. IF Sharki wanted to spy out GS / Ds1. Why should he join via a devcommand. And leave via a devcommand without deleting the auditinglogs? I mean.. sharki is like God. he can do anything. He can read your corpchat, your alliancechat. damn he can even see your wet dreams... and you wouldn¦t even notice that he is around ___________________________________________ A wise man said once: 'Violence is the escape of the mentaly poor guys.'
Reverand Phoenix	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:18:00 - [2789] Well as of now , I trust em {wink } Anyone in BOB or CCP wana exchange MSN info and be friends ? LOL
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:18:00 - [2790] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Wild Rho I didn't mention the IA department aspect since I don't have the full story in that regard and wasn't going to start making up "facts". From what I gather people basically don't trust a simple e-mail to IA not to disappear into oblivion - make of that what you will, I've my own opinions. Thing is, it is actually pretty key to the allegations made, isn't it? It is okay for some people to use the wrong avenues because they don't trust the right ones, but not for others? Really a matter of opinion I guess. I think the current situation came from the reaction of CCP or members of CCP ignoring and/or actively supressing any attempt to get information without even directing people to the appropriate channel - not exactly the fabled transparancy CCP claims to pride itself on. I'm not going to comment on the IA avenue further because I just don't know enough to say anything with any certainty and it'd be down to the people involved, but personally if I didn't believe one channel couldn't be trusted (especially considering it's secretive nature) I wouldn't feel too encouraged to use it.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:18:00 - [2791] Edited by: Stahlregen on 27/05/2007 11:17:08
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:19:00 - [2792] Originally by: Kay Han WOW 3200+ postings in less then 36 hrs. You guys are really really awesome. What about stop *****ing around here, and let CCP do the investigestions (sp?). Ohhhhh wait.. CCP = BoB. forgot this.. my fault Maybe there was a bugged POS. Maybe not. The peeps in DS1 will know it. And just to give you something to think about. IF Sharki wanted to spy out GS / Ds1. Why should he join via a devcommand. And leave via a devcommand without deleting the auditinglogs? I mean.. sharki is like God. he can do anything. He can read your corpchat, your alliancechat. damn he can even see your wet dreams... and you wouldn¦t even notice that he is around the CEO of ds1 has already posted on our private forums about this bugged pos issue, there simply was no bugged pos at all
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:20:00 - [2793] Originally by: Avon Originally by: OhDaesu Originally by: Avon It is okay for some people to use the wrong avenues because they don't trust the right ones, but not for others? So, you're saying that Goons using a public forum threadnaught, is worse than BoB's CCP private hotline via MSN? No, I am saying that the correct avenues are in place, and they should be used. We already explained this. The correct avenues failed.
Lee Bian Amarryan Nations GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:20:00 - [2794] Originally by: Avon No, I am saying that the correct avenues are in place, and they should be used. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. There, or did you just skip this post as well?
goze GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:21:00 - [2795] Originally by: Avon Thing is, it is actually pretty key to the allegations made, isn't it? It is okay for some people to use the wrong avenues because they don't trust the right ones, but not for others? You know, you're absolutely right, and clearly Goonswarm is the truly guilty party for abusing the system and demanding accountability and openess from CCP rather than chumming it up with the devs and then demanding firings and severances over MSN. Shame on you, Goonswarm! Your hasty, Chicken Little attitude is a terrible black mark on EvE's otherwise impeccable record of ethical business behavior!
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:21:00 - [2796] Originally by: Malachon Draco You're like Nixon complaining Woodward published the Watergate story instead of going to the FBI with it, you know that right? Yeah, I'm just like Nixon. Clearly. Honestly Malachon, that isn't even the first time that analogy has been used in this thread, I would have though you could have come up with something more creative. The policy is that any allegation of CCP misconduct is dealt with by emailing the IA department. If you want an issue resolved or addressed, then that is what you do. Should that policy apply to everyone equally or not? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:22:00 - [2797] Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Kay Han WOW 3200+ postings in less then 36 hrs. You guys are really really awesome. What about stop *****ing around here, and let CCP do the investigestions (sp?). Ohhhhh wait.. CCP = BoB. forgot this.. my fault Maybe there was a bugged POS. Maybe not. The peeps in DS1 will know it. And just to give you something to think about. IF Sharki wanted to spy out GS / Ds1. Why should he join via a devcommand. And leave via a devcommand without deleting the auditinglogs? I mean.. sharki is like God. he can do anything. He can read your corpchat, your alliancechat. damn he can even see your wet dreams... and you wouldn¦t even notice that he is around the CEO of ds1 has already posted on our private forums about this bugged pos issue, there simply was no bugged pos at all It was also stated several times over the course of this thread.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:22:00 - [2798] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Sadly, I would not have known about this issue w/o the mass postings on the forum. As a paying customer I am indebted to the goonies for doing the whole drama bomb. Their mess has given me important issues relating to CCP I should think about. You are certainly correct in pointing out that it is a procedural abuse to present the information in the way that it was done. Indeed, 2 wrongs don't make it right (yay for cheesy folk sayings) ;P However, in this case, the small amount of direct evil done is outweighed by the righteous ruckus it's caused. Even if the allegations are totally unfounded, CCP needs to refocus on the ethics brought up so prominently in this thread. In retrospect, the t20 cafuffle should never have died. NOT because BoB was involved, but because CCP was shown to have inadequately prepared for modernity in business. As for : "No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed.". Where else in RL (and this is most certainly a RL issue), does a lack of transparency for business benefit the consumer? In Canada, a voluntary membership is the Chamber of Commerce and the Better Business Bureau. Collectively, these 2 organizations record complaints and maintain records for local businesses. In turn, these records are available to the consumer, should they choose to access it. Additionally, these organizations offer mediation services between businesses and dissatisfied consumers. Though membership is voluntary and the mediation is non-binding, it does serve to highlight, maintain and promulgate ethics in business. Naturally, not every resolution is satisfactory to either the business, the consumer, or both. However, it tends to be. Indeed, membership in these sorts of organizations generally promote fair business practices and increase consumer satisfaction, even when conflicts are resolved via mediation. That's right... even when people conflict in business, the process of mediation promotes consumer confidence and promotes a business caring about its customers. After all, when records are kept about a business and are consumer-researchable, businesses have a vested interest in avoiding initial complaints. Contrast this with totally opaque 'black-box' customer service. Other customers have no idea whom can be trusted out of a field of businesses that offer the same services. Personally, I want information about a company before they screw me over. ASSUMING that a business always operates above board is terribly naive, particularly when it is an internet based business that has no 'on-site' customer feedback pages. This is one of the reasons Newegg or other online retailers have feedback pages available from their pages. It's to reassure the customer. 'Star chamber' tactics when addressing Dev misconduct is not only foolhardy, it is insulting to the playerbase. "we have taken care of it"; "no you cannot have any details about a fundamental trust issue" is inadequate and undeserved trust. Really, why trust them? They've already screwed up with t20 and should be on probation, not given the keys to your house. I won't trust CCP until they stop acting like a secret spy agency. Either transparently ensure the game mechanics are open and fair for all, or deal with trust-crisises until the game is dead. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:22:00 - [2799] Originally by: Avon Originally by: OhDaesu Originally by: Avon It is okay for some people to use the wrong avenues because they don't trust the right ones, but not for others? So, you're saying that Goons using a public forum threadnaught, is worse than BoB's CCP private hotline via MSN? No, I am saying that the correct avenues are in place, and they should be used. you're off topic, if you want to discuss this non-issue, create another thread for it
Boksering Amarr M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:22:00 - [2800] Edited by: Boksering on 27/05/2007 11:22:01 Maybe this investigation would go alot faster if people only posted facts, and not opinions,empty allegations, understandings and EVe history. I mean for every new allegation made there is one more thing to investigate. be it true or false CCP has to verify it. Lets all wait and see what happens. What IA finds out. And all people that actually have something constructive/real to say could mail them :)... I mean statements like: bod/bob sux and or are all cheaters ccp are lousy Goons hacked the client and are doing illegal stuff outside game IAC are a bunch of Ctrl q-ers They just arent bringing this further. And I doubt that its easing the investigation. I just read a few of these pages and I already feel like my iq has gone below 80. PS. couldnt we get a rule about those annoying poor impersonations who isnt doing anything but adding gasoline to the fire. I mean chars like Sir Molly, Sir mole etc...
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:23:00 - [2801] Edited by: QuantumX on 27/05/2007 11:23:13 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Wild Rho I didn't mention the IA department aspect since I don't have the full story in that regard and wasn't going to start making up "facts". From what I gather people basically don't trust a simple e-mail to IA not to disappear into oblivion - make of that what you will, I've my own opinions. Thing is, it is actually pretty key to the allegations made, isn't it? It is okay for some people to use the wrong avenues because they don't trust the right ones, but not for others? You talk about wrong Avenues, for things to be done, well thats the pot calling the Kettle black.. BoB have been using wrong avenues for a long time. Personally i dont care about BoB, i know a few players and they are good people. what i do care about is CCP not "seeming" to be honest, while anything is yet to be proven, what has come out is very damaging to them from a business focus, and will affect subscriptions. CCP has done nothing since these alligations have been made, and something like this should get all high level CCP employees / directors in, even on an Holiday weekend, because its their business and any damage to it affects the bottom line, that being their cash flow and consumer confidence. But I find as in real life that where there is smoke there is fire, lets see how big the fire is. This is not about BoB, Goons or any other ego based groups, this is about consumer confidence in CCP's product.
hellhathnofury	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:23:00 - [2802] This is madness! All CCP need to do is say: "We're sorry, something happened."
Kay Han Caldari Friendship 7 Corporation YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:24:00 - [2803] Originally by: Stahlregen It was also stated several times over the course of this thread. and you really think i really read 108 pages of mostly bull****? ___________________________________________ A wise man said once: 'Violence is the escape of the mentaly poor guys.'
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:26:00 - [2804] Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Avon No, I am saying that the correct avenues are in place, and they should be used. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. There, or did you just skip this post as well? No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:27:00 - [2805] Edited by: Stahlregen on 27/05/2007 11:29:31 Edited by: Stahlregen on 27/05/2007 11:27:55 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Malachon Draco You're like Nixon complaining Woodward published the Watergate story instead of going to the FBI with it, you know that right? Yeah, I'm just like Nixon. Clearly. Honestly Malachon, that isn't even the first time that analogy has been used in this thread, I would have though you could have come up with something more creative. The policy is that any allegation of CCP misconduct is dealt with by emailing the IA department. If you want an issue resolved or addressed, then that is what you do. Should that policy apply to everyone equally or not? Nope, Still not getting it. CORRECT AVENUES FAILED REQUIRING DRASTIC COURSE OF ACTION IN ORDER TO BRING TO LIGHT ALLEGATIONS. What part of the original threads and petitions deleted do you not understand? **** I thought you were not quite all there but this is just ridiculous, you need to book yourself back into elementary school. I'm not kidding, Either that or you're just trolling us. I'm just disappointed that Goonswarm is seemingly the only alliance unable to be truly swept under the rug by CCP (Aside from bob that is) when they come to the discovery that the correct channels fail them.
Cabal Leader	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:27:00 - [2806] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Avon No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace. Quite possibly if CCP pull's the plug on allowing Employees to play the game he and alot of other BOB pilots might disappear?
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:28:00 - [2807] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 11:26:53 Originally by: KIATolon I wonder how bob would done in this war without their bugged complexes, spawned t2 bpo's and dev lead cap ship fleets.
Jexxa Black Lance NBSI Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:28:00 - [2808] Well, for my two-penneth, can I call for a little sanity here? I've been playing this game (alts included) for over 3 years and for 2 of those years been relatively happy with it. However, knowing the character of the ISD member who was burned (I was part of AM) and believing what screenies I see the Goons produce, compiled with past stains vs. CCP, I'm doing the only thing I CAN do, and voting with my feet - 3 accounts won't matter that much to CCP, but I strongly urge anyone who is as p*ssed off as me to do the same. We pay for this game to have fun at the end of the day. ATM i'm not......
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:29:00 - [2809] Originally by: hellhathnofury This is madness! All CCP need to do is say: "We're sorry, something happened." sorry but that's not even close to enough...they had a chance to fix things the first time around with t20..but instead they created an IA department that apparently does absolutely nothing..and downplayed the events that took place in order to enhance their damage control..unless they can take actions that guarantee every single player that these cases of collusion and corruption will never be allowed to take place again (rather than just trying to make it so we don't learn about them) they will not regain anybody's trust in them as a business entity
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:30:00 - [2810] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Avon No, I am saying that the correct avenues are in place, and they should be used. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. There, or did you just skip this post as well? No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. off topic, take this to another thread
Lee Bian Amarryan Nations GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:30:00 - [2811] Originally by: Avon No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. Emails where sent to Arkanon and petitions where created. Neither yielded anything. Speaking about putting your fingers in your ears...
BobFromMarketing Amarr H.Y.D.R.A. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:31:00 - [2812] Originally by: Boksering Edited by: Boksering on 27/05/2007 11:22:01 Maybe this investigation would go alot faster if people only posted facts, and not opinions,empty allegations, understandings and EVe history. I mean for every new allegation made there is one more thing to investigate. be it true or false CCP has to verify it. Lets all wait and see what happens. What IA finds out. And all people that actually have something constructive/real to say could mail them :)... I mean statements like: bod/bob sux and or are all cheaters ccp are lousy Goons hacked the client and are doing illegal stuff outside game IAC are a bunch of Ctrl q-ers They just arent bringing this further. And I doubt that its easing the investigation. I just read a few of these pages and I already feel like my iq has gone below 80. PS. couldnt we get a rule about those annoying poor impersonations who isnt doing anything but adding gasoline to the fire. I mean chars like Sir Molly, Sir mole etc... Im not sure what's worse, your logic or or your...no it's your logic. So you're saying comments like BoB sucks make CCP actually look into BoB sucking to ensure their investigation is thorough? Hell in that case Minmatar War Academy sucks. What you really wanted to say was "Stop posting senseless bs and the flamewars." Ya see that? Your entire post summed up in one line. I can sum my post up in one line too "Don't be dumb"
Forums Troll	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:31:00 - [2813] Originally by: Avon Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. ahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahaahaha
ssorion Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:32:00 - [2814] Originally by: Kay Han And just to give you something to think about. IF Sharki wanted to spy out GS / Ds1. Why should he join via a devcommand. And leave via a devcommand without deleting the auditinglogs? I mean.. sharki is like God. he can do anything. He can read your corpchat, your alliancechat. Are you GM ? Do you know who have what kind of powers and what can/cannot he do ? After t20 incident, i'd believe CCP would make their best to not let anyone mis-use his powers, including limiting the powers. Since theres no publically avaiable list of powers CCP employes possess, and no details on auditing of these powers, theres a fair chance that using in-game mechanics and joining the corp was safer than using GM/dev tools, if there are any in the possession of questioned staff member.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:32:00 - [2815] Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Avon No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. Emails where sent to Arkanon and petitions where created. Neither yielded anything. Speaking about putting your fingers in your ears... Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Now, as you have told us that some of the posts in this thread were just lies, could you be so kind as to take the time to tell us which other ones we should ignore? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:32:00 - [2816] Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: hellhathnofury This is madness! All CCP need to do is say: "We're sorry, something happened." sorry but that's not even close to enough...they had a chance to fix things the first time around with t20..but instead they created an IA department that apparently does absolutely nothing..and downplayed the events that took place in order to enhance their damage control..unless they can take actions that guarantee every single player that these cases of collusion and corruption will never be allowed to take place again (rather than just trying to make it so we don't learn about them) they will not regain anybody's trust in them as a business entity So, did you find any prove of any wrongdoing yet? You keep complaining no one has disproven the allegations, but no proof of misconduct has been given either. The only thing i see you do is cry about no one doing anything about (something). I see one person say a thing, and 200 goons repeat it, suddenly it's an issue. You're acting like there already is a guilty part, but you don't even know that. But that's ok, goonswarm is fighting the good fight :/
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:34:00 - [2817] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Stradiot if dropping cans at a station undock is considered an exploit (although it is within the games mechanics to do so), then please explain why "pos-bowling" WASN'T considered an exploit (seeing as how nobody was punished for it) I have no idea. I know that IAC pretty much invented it. BoB did it for a while (as did others). Shrike was asked to stop by a GM, and did so. Evil Thug was apparently told that in fact it wasn't an exploit and that bowling was a legitimate game mechanic. Shirke, upon hearing that it was allowed, resumed bowling. I guess if anyone had a GM in their pocket over that one it wasn't BoB. More likely, however, is that different GMs handled the same situation in different ways, and the most senior descision became policy. Personally I think it is dumb, but I don't make the rules. I think you've pretty much nailed the problem on the head. there's no uniformity in judgement going on. there doesn't seem to be any clear company policy, and GMs are just going with their gut. which is all fine and well if it's the first time an issue is raised. but after a while, you need to set a firm policy that all GMs and DEVs follow. the ex-blizzard guy who was quoted had alot of truth to tell, and made some valid points. i don't believe everything i'm told, however the volume of circumstantial evidence of shady goings on makes me feel that the line between players and developers has been somewhat blurred. i think this incident will end in two things: - a fixed policy will form and GM descisions will be alot more uniform. - developers will stop involving themselves in-game and there will be none of this blurring of the line. i know developers for most MMORPGs also play the game in their spare time, i know i did when i worked for an MMO, but there were rules: no interaction with your main and your work account. no revealing your secret identity. hell on my work account i told players i had a main, and that i played, but never revealed his identity. and on my main, i never said a word about working for the company. i like that this thread was created, and i like that CCP seem to be trying to A) acknowledge they screwed up and B) fix it whilst keeping the players in the loop. there's hope for them yet. ========================================== Iy please remember: I AM a sarcastic ******* and nothing i say has ever represented the thoughts or feelings of my corp, alliance, or anyone really. read
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:34:00 - [2818] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Avon No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. Emails where sent to Arkanon and petitions where created. Neither yielded anything. Speaking about putting your fingers in your ears... Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Now, as you have told us that some of the posts in this thread were just lies, could you be so kind as to take the time to tell us which other ones we should ignore? the ones without proof...proof is proof until it's disproved..no proof has been disproved so you can't dismiss anything
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:34:00 - [2819] Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Avon No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. Emails where sent to Arkanon and petitions where created. Neither yielded anything. Speaking about putting your fingers in your ears... so did -you- petition? or is this all hearsay?
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:34:00 - [2820] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: hellhathnofury This is madness! All CCP need to do is say: "We're sorry, something happened." sorry but that's not even close to enough...they had a chance to fix things the first time around with t20..but instead they created an IA department that apparently does absolutely nothing..and downplayed the events that took place in order to enhance their damage control..unless they can take actions that guarantee every single player that these cases of collusion and corruption will never be allowed to take place again (rather than just trying to make it so we don't learn about them) they will not regain anybody's trust in them as a business entity So, did you find any prove of any wrongdoing yet? You keep complaining no one has disproven the allegations, but no proof of misconduct has been given either. The only thing i see you do is cry about no one doing anything about (something). I see one person say a thing, and 200 goons repeat it, suddenly it's an issue. You're acting like there already is a guilty part, but you don't even know that. But that's ok, goonswarm is fighting the good fight :/ the proof is all in our open letter, go read it
BobFromMarketing Amarr H.Y.D.R.A. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:35:00 - [2821] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Avon No, I am saying that the correct avenues are in place, and they should be used. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. It's been repeated for several, several times that the correct channels where tried and ignored. There, or did you just skip this post as well? No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. Petitions were made, they were deleted, not closed. Emails were sent, no response. Now, according to CCP those are the correct avenues, but according to you they arent. Which means only one thing. Goonswarm! Download MSN! We have been doing this wrong all along,
ShinChan	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:35:00 - [2822] So we have so far: 1. ISD member from Goon bumping BOB dread fleet 2. ISD Goon told to move away, but he refuses and goes berserk on local. 3. ISD Goon been expeled from ISD. 4. GM doing his job and fixing a goon POS. 5. Goons DDSoing the EVE-O forums. 6. Goons spamming EVE-O. 7. Goons going berserker on EVE-O forums. 8. Goon mass creating trial accounts to insult on EVE-O forums. 9. Goons finally leaving EVE with their tails between their legs?
Zeph1rus Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:35:00 - [2823] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Avon No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. Emails where sent to Arkanon and petitions where created. Neither yielded anything. Speaking about putting your fingers in your ears... Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Now, as you have told us that some of the posts in this thread were just lies, could you be so kind as to take the time to tell us which other ones we should ignore? We should ignore any posts made by you.
Abdullah al'Weyouni	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:39:00 - [2824] Why can't they just ban that goddam Goonswarm scum and delete the alliance and all the assets of those worthless piece of ****s?? No one likes those childsh mofos anyway, and that would solve all probs at once.
Zion Lior GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:39:00 - [2825] If I understand correctly, the arguement CCP is presenting is that they have contact with the leaders of BoB so that they can troubleshoot bugs. However, if that is the case, then why were those bugged 10/10 complexes in BoB space never fixed until they got outed?
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:39:00 - [2826] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 11:40:20 Originally by: Avon Now, as you have told us that some of the posts in this thread were just lies, could you be so kind as to take the time to tell us which other ones we should ignore? Generally those with the words "Reikkoku", "Black Nova", "Evolution" or "Black Ellipse" immediately to the left of them.
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:39:00 - [2827] Edited by: Stahlregen on 27/05/2007 11:40:29 Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: hellhathnofury This is madness! All CCP need to do is say: "We're sorry, something happened." sorry but that's not even close to enough...they had a chance to fix things the first time around with t20..but instead they created an IA department that apparently does absolutely nothing..and downplayed the events that took place in order to enhance their damage control..unless they can take actions that guarantee every single player that these cases of collusion and corruption will never be allowed to take place again (rather than just trying to make it so we don't learn about them) they will not regain anybody's trust in them as a business entity So, did you find any prove of any wrongdoing yet? You keep complaining no one has disproven the allegations, but no proof of misconduct has been given either. The only thing i see you do is cry about no one doing anything about (something). I see one person say a thing, and 200 goons repeat it, suddenly it's an issue. You're acting like there already is a guilty part, but you don't even know that. But that's ok, goonswarm is fighting the good fight :/ the proof is all in our open letter, go read it I read it, but it just says something might be fishy about a DEV joining a corp. The rest is some writing from ex-volunteers. Nothing in there is anything else then accusations, but you make it sound like there is actually something wrong already. No facts about wrongdoing in that letter, that's one thing that's obvious. Yeah but when you couple this with the fact that Dian admitted to having CCP employees on MSN call and that it wouldnt be the first time CCP have been found to be dealing with alliances unfairly it's really not that much of a stretch is it now?
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:39:00 - [2828] Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 11:39:13 Originally by: QuantumX Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: hellhathnofury This is madness! All CCP need to do is say: "We're sorry, something happened." sorry but that's not even close to enough...they had a chance to fix things the first time around with t20..but instead they created an IA department that apparently does absolutely nothing..and downplayed the events that took place in order to enhance their damage control..unless they can take actions that guarantee every single player that these cases of collusion and corruption will never be allowed to take place again (rather than just trying to make it so we don't learn about them) they will not regain anybody's trust in them as a business entity So, did you find any prove of any wrongdoing yet? You keep complaining no one has disproven the allegations, but no proof of misconduct has been given either. The only thing i see you do is cry about no one doing anything about (something). I see one person say a thing, and 200 goons repeat it, suddenly it's an issue. You're acting like there already is a guilty part, but you don't even know that. But that's ok, goonswarm is fighting the good fight :/ And your doing the opposite.. Why do people think this is about goon, bob and co, get off yer high horse, and realise this is about consumer confidence in a CCP product. Basically there isn't any.. People base their view ad prior experience and prior experience says CCP has alot to do in the honesty department. you've hit the nail on the head..it has nothing to do with the hatred between bob and goon..it has to do with consumer confidence in: A) ccp's ability to maintain neutrality and fairplay in their own game B) ccp's ability to ensure that their employees (or players) aren't put into a position where they will have a conflict of interests C) ccp's ability to ensure that nothing like this will ever happen again (just making sure that the players don't find out about it happening isn't the same thing obviously) D) ccp's ability to ensure that all who are involved with the previous wrongdoings are removed from their positions completely and totally
Teinyhr Minmatar Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:40:00 - [2829] Once again, I'd like to remind you, if you're quitting, I'd like to have your stuff & ISK. Even just ISK is fine but I wouldn't mind a Muninn or two. ---- As for the whole ordeal.. Well. I think people are gathering lynchmobs too hastily. I myself don't believe anything shady is happening regards of the Goonswarm incident; I mean, why the fc would be an employee so stupid to leave the "corp quitting" -message if it was supposed to be something bad he was doing? As for the other parts of this internet drama, I don't really have an opinion as I don't personally really care too much about those things. Yeah and anyone who says I'm BoB -friendly is sorely mistaken and will get a kick in the face. ------------------- Originally by:** Smagd Besides, specialization is for insects.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:41:00 - [2830] Originally by: Cabal Leader Maybe if you Twist and spin the dialogue enough you will make people forget about the real Problem here ehh? So, I should accept the allegations at face value, with no attempt to find out if they are factual, otherwise I am "twisting and spinning"? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:41:00 - [2831] Originally by: ShinChan So we have so far: 1. ISD member from Goon bumping BOB dread fleet When your first point is wrong it's generally best to stop there.
Nikodaemonicus Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:42:00 - [2832] Originally by: ShinChan So we have so far: 1. ISD member from Goon bumping BOB dread fleet 2. ISD Goon told to move away, but he refuses and goes berserk on local. 3. ISD Goon been expeled from ISD. 4. GM doing his job and fixing a goon POS. 5. Goons DDSoing the EVE-O forums. 6. Goons spamming EVE-O. 7. Goons going berserker on EVE-O forums. 8. Goon mass creating trial accounts to insult on EVE-O forums. 9. Goons finally leaving EVE with their tails between their legs? Thanks for summing it up.
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:42:00 - [2833] Originally by: Avon Originally by: OhDaesu Originally by: Avon It is okay for some people to use the wrong avenues because they don't trust the right ones, but not for others? So, you're saying that Goons using a public forum threadnaught, is worse than BoB's CCP private hotline via MSN? No, I am saying that the correct avenues are in place, and they should be used. The Goonies did. The emails were ignored/deleted. Then they tried a post on the forums. It was deleted as well. CCP tried stonewalling the issues. Only a threadnaught seemed to work. Guess what. It did. And because CCP chose to stonewall the issue, the threadnaught is now doing its work all over the Internets. Well done CCP. Splendid community handling. Again. But you know all this, don't you Avon? You're just called up by BoB to do some damage control, aren't you? That is your current position in BoB isn't? Well, you've got you work cut out for you. There are some interesting admissions by Dianabolic at the beginning of this thread to massage away. Good luck. You're going to need it. --
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:42:00 - [2834] Originally by: Abdullah al'Weyouni Why can't they just ban that goddam Goonswarm scum and delete the alliance and all the assets of those worthless piece of ****s?? No one likes those childsh mofos anyway, and that would solve all probs at once. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we shouldn't allow alt posts. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:43:00 - [2835] Originally by: Teinyhr Once again, I'd like to remind you, if you're quitting, I'd like to have your stuff & ISK. Even just ISK is fine but I wouldn't mind a Muninn or two. ---- As for the whole ordeal.. Well. I think people are gathering lynchmobs too hastily. I myself don't believe anything shady is happening regards of the Goonswarm incident; I mean, why the f**c would be an employee so stupid to leave the "corp quitting" -message if it was supposed to be something bad he was doing? As for the other parts of this internet drama, I don't really have an opinion as I don't personally really care too much about those things. Yeah and anyone who says I'm BoB -friendly is sorely mistaken and will get a kick in the face. this issue has nothing to do with being bob-friendly or anti-bob..it has to do with the ability to see that there is no transparency or checks and balances in CCP..they operate like the communist party of china or putin's party..that by itself is bad enough, but then it comes to light (on multiple occasions) that CCP can not be trusted to do things as a professional business should
Xooja The Illucian Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:43:00 - [2836] Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Avon Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? One thing to keep in mind Avon. Every other channel for giving the information was tried before the threadnaught was launched and came back with nothing but silence, not even a basic acknowledgement. The petition filed asking about the issue was deleted with no response, feedback or well...anything. Convo's and pms to the GMs in question got no response (although ths in itself isn't that unusal I'll admit). A well written non flame bait forum post was made asking about the situations involved wasn't just modded, it was outright locked and delete within 30 seconds of being posted with again, no feedback or response. The threadonaught may not have been the preferable way to get this information out and get a response but so far it has been the only proven way that actually works even while CCP harps on about transparancy and so on. Any other attempt is met with silence and cenorship and even forum/ingame bannings for anyone that even mentions it. So the claims in this very thread that IA was not emailed directly (as Arkanon could not be trusted to police this fairly) are lies? So how much of the rest of this are lies? Was the IA department emailed directly (as is the correct reporting method) before the threadnaught or not? i know you're trying to prove a point, but you're still ignoring evidence..it's one thing if you can solidly and concretely disprove the evidence provided..but it's another thing if you start talking about a non-issue that has nothing to do with collusion/corruption and all evidence surrounding those circumstances This is not a non issue. I'll leave it up to others to work out why.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:43:00 - [2837] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Originally by: Abdullah al'Weyouni Why can't they just ban that goddam Goonswarm scum and delete the alliance and all the assets of those worthless piece of ****s?? No one likes those childsh mofos anyway, and that would solve all probs at once. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we shouldn't allow alt posts. quotin dis, because it's so true, and because mods should be busy enforcing this instead of censorship
Cabal Leader	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:44:00 - [2838] Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 27/05/2007 11:07:50 Edited by: Shinigami on 27/05/2007 11:06:56 Originally by: Stradiot it's too late, bob have already proven themselves to be immune to logic, facts, or reason..just as supercapitals are currently immune to ewar...unless they decide to see this issue in the proper context (broken trust between players and the company), rather than seeing this as an issue that is relating to a fictional war in a fictional universe of internet spaceships, their responses will continue to be the same What do you want us to do? All we can do is wait and see what the result of the investigation is. The only other thing we can do for now is agree to disagree. Continuously aguing over inconclusive (possibly fake) evidence will get us nowhere. The only real evidence is in the logs stored on CCP's servers. I'm not going to take some bob hating ex ISD guy's rant seriously. Nor do I care about pasted chat logs. And what guarantees do we have that there isn't a Damage Control dialogue going on right now between BOB and CCP over MSN? What guarantees do we have that CCP will Not lie or Censor their way out of it once again, So you BOB guy's can proclaim to the masses that Tinfoil hats are now on sale? I don't hate BOB but We all hate Cheaters and Colussionist's thats evident on the number of pages in this thread. Even if you Win Eve your Victory will always be Tainted by these developments wont they?
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:50:00 - [2839] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Avon No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. Emails where sent to Arkanon and petitions where created. Neither yielded anything. Speaking about putting your fingers in your ears... Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Now, as you have told us that some of the posts in this thread were just lies, could you be so kind as to take the time to tell us which other ones we should ignore? You can play obtuse for only so long before people start thinking you're an idiot. --
drillerkiller2004	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:50:00 - [2840] Originally by: John McCreedy I've read the accusation and I'd like to stress that at this moment, that's all it is. It is however an extremely serious accusation and one that should be taken seriously and with a cool head. However, it's all to plain to see that these accusations are tearing this game and more importantly, this game's community apart. When I first started, enemies we may of been on the server but here on the forums we where far more united. To be frank, I see the only way CCP can put these allegations to bed once and for all is to hand its employees a simple choice. You're either a CCP employee or you're a CCP Customer. In other words, you either develop the game or you play the game. You can't have your cake and eat it like you can now. No Develeopers playing on the live server, no allegations of bias can be levied. Harsh I know but somewhat less harsh from both a Gamer and a Coporate perspective of Eve being torn apart by these constant allegations leading to people cancelling their subscriptions. I totally agree! Developers playing the game = conflict of interests
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:51:00 - [2841] Originally by: Abdullah al'Weyouni Why can't they just ban that goddam Goonswarm scum and delete the alliance and all the assets of those worthless piece of ****s?? No one likes those childsh mofos anyway, and that would solve all probs at once. I dont like Goonswarm at all, but i tell you what, thats exactly what BoB (CCP) wants because Goons are getting to big, like ASCN did. If you wanna have peace play the game dont get to big and let BoB rule everything. But is this right? I dont think so.
Yunii Freedom Builders Inc. Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:51:00 - [2842] Originally by: Flaming Lemming Originally by: jely I cant wait to see the thread the stems from the CCP response to the investigation, Question, WHY HAVE POSTS BEEN REMOVED??? some i read yesterday are not here today Posts that linked to digg, slashdot, Kugu, etc..any third party site that was tallking about this issue...gone, at least they were dropping within minutes last night. Quite honestly I can't for the life of me understand why your post hasn't been edited yet. Someone else who did the exact same thing has his post edited. Guess i should send an email asking about that bacause I don't have their MSN either... ------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers.
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:52:00 - [2843] Originally by: Fayed Nwani CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. The t20 incedent has already proven that is not always the case. It's really more a case of if employees believe they can get away with it.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:53:00 - [2844] Originally by: Fayed Nwani CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. Unfortunately T20 proved this wrong. As CCP stated, normally he would have been terminated. He 'lucked out' in the sense that it was discovered when all the headhonchos were away. So we clearly have at least 1 developer who put his job on the line for 'ingame shenanigans' as you put it so eloquently. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
D'Artagnan Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:53:00 - [2845] I am interested to know what would have happened if the situation had been reversed. Now lets see what would have happened if a ISD frigate had bumped a GS dread. GS pilot: leave local ISD pilot: No GS pilot writes a petition. GM reads the petition checks the logs the ISD pilot gets fired. The end result is a CCP employee gets fired for misconduct, as they are not meant to influence the game (bumping is influencing it) and if requested they are meant to leave local. Now GS pilot post thread on the forums stating how ISD were helping BoB and the community goes in to anti BoB overdrive. Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Does this effect the end result? Nope Does this effect the in game balance? Nope believe it or not the firing of the ISD member had zero effect on the outcome of the fight/war Maybe if CCP had spawned 100 titans to BoB you would have a case, but as it stands there is no case here just a load of what ifs.
WarMongeer	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:54:00 - [2846] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Avon Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Tell us with a straight face that you think privately emailling an issue like this would have gotten anything done. Also, do you believe the community deserves to know about these sorts of allegations when it's possible (and I guess the goons believe) that they're true? Yes, I think it would have been the correct thing to do, and the issues would have been addressed. No, I don't think the community has a right to know about any such allegations, or the resolution - just in the same way that petitions and about players are private. What matters is that issues are addressed. Your arguement that it is okay to use the wrong method because you don't think the right method will work is kinda like saying that it is okay to MSN someone if you don't trust petitions, non? Personally I believe in using the appropriate channels. I don't favour threadnaughts over emails to IA, and I don't support MSNs in place of petitions. I guess you think it is okay though? One thing to keep in mind Avon. Every other channel for giving the information was tried before the threadnaught was launched and came back with nothing but silence, not even a basic acknowledgement. The petition filed asking about the issue was deleted with no response, feedback or well...anything. Convo's and pms to the GMs in question got no response (although ths in itself isn't that unusal I'll admit). A well written non flame bait forum post was made asking about the situations involved wasn't just modded, it was outright locked and delete within 30 seconds of being posted with again, no feedback or response. The threadonaught may not have been the preferable way to get this information out and get a response but so far it has been the only proven way that actually works even while CCP harps on about transparancy and so on. Any other attempt is met with silence and cenorship and even forum/ingame bannings for anyone that even mentions it. So the claims in this very thread that IA was not emailed directly (as Arkanon could not be trusted to police this fairly) are lies? So how much of the rest of this are lies? Was the IA department emailed directly (as is the correct reporting method) before the threadnaught or not? Nothing personal Avon, but your forum stance here stands in pretty stark relief to your alliance strategies in (and most especially out) of game. Why are you asking the goons if they follow the rules when your alliancemates can't seem to? Were you aware of your people MSNing a dev OOG? Was there a good reason for the ISD person to be fired? These are the sort of questions that pop to mind when someone from BOB posts about following proper procedure. The Goons post here because they think you've got an unfair advantage out of game. Until proof comes out to the contrary, many of us will be forced to agree.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:55:00 - [2847] Originally by: D'Artagnan Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Thank you ever so much for confirming that this was in fact what took place.
Morning Maniac Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:55:00 - [2848] I wish everyone would give some time for the investigation to take place. The accusations are serious and they should be investigated. The only thing that we can take as a fact is that some people in BoB have CCP devs on their msn shortlist, since Dianabolic said he did. Now this may be just for banter and bug fixing but we may ask ourselves if this is appropriate. This might be a situation where friendly relations are not appropriate because we deal with a competitive environment. It may be intended for the greater good of the game but in my opinion it does the reputation of the game and it's developers more harm then good. Now for my bad rl analogy: I wouldn't feel happy playing a game of tennis or football where my opponent would be best buddies with the referee and have numerous private chats during the game. MM http://eve-ivy.com EVE University commercial
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:55:00 - [2849] Originally by: Abdullah al'Weyouni Why can't they just ban that goddam Goonswarm scum and delete the alliance and all the assets of those worthless piece of ****s?? No one likes those childsh mofos anyway, and that would solve all probs at once. Why don't they just ban you from the forums. You are, after all, contributing nothing to the thread and are here clearly to troll. Also, post with your main ... --
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:56:00 - [2850] Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Fayed Nwani CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. The t20 incedent has already proven that is not always the case. It's really more a case of if employees believe they can get away with it. agreed..what fayed nwani is saying is the equivalent of A) humans beings try to survive B) in order to survive in the modern day, human beings require a job/career/source of income so in conclusion C) ALL human beings have the safety of their jobs at CCP as their top priority in life
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:57:00 - [2851] Edited by: Poolpy on 27/05/2007 11:55:43 Originally by: D'Artagnan Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Does this effect the end result? Nope Gniiiiii. You can't be serious O_O. edit: page 111 \o/
drillerkiller2004	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:57:00 - [2852] Originally by: D'Artagnan Maybe if CCP had spawned 100 titans to BoB you would have a case, but as it stands there is no case here just a load of what ifs. I think 5 titans was enough, dont you?
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:57:00 - [2853] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Wild Rho I didn't mention the IA department aspect since I don't have the full story in that regard and wasn't going to start making up "facts". From what I gather people basically don't trust a simple e-mail to IA not to disappear into oblivion - make of that what you will, I've my own opinions. Thing is, it is actually pretty key to the allegations made, isn't it? It is okay for some people to use the wrong avenues because they don't trust the right ones, but not for others? Well, you're correctly pointing out the logical similarity between the two. Point taken. Can you now please address the marked dissimilarity between the two? That's the substantive issue at hand, and continued failure on your part to treat equally the two issues is beginning to looking at least disingenuous. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:57:00 - [2854] Originally by: Malachon Draco .. I know why the lynch mob exists, but that does not justify it. I guess I am just a stickler for the rules (boy do I know that is going to be flamed, but it is true). I guess that what comes from being a home owning father of two in England. Maybe I should be more revolutionary, but it just isn't in my nature. I think that society works because it is bound by rules, and when you bypass those rules for whatever reason, society suffers. Look at this thread as a perfect example of that. It may be a quest for justice (which I honestly don't think it is), but can you say that is doing more good than harm? If IA were allowed to handle this in the correct way then the eventualy outcome would probably be the same, but without the drama and the pitchforks. Without the bad publicity and community bile. I'm not against justice being done, but I think there is a right way to go about it. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:57:00 - [2855] Originally by: D'Artagnan I am interested to know what would have happened if the situation had been reversed. Now lets see what would have happened if a ISD frigate had bumped a GS dread. GS pilot: leave local ISD pilot: No GS pilot writes a petition. GM reads the petition checks the logs the ISD pilot gets fired. The end result is a CCP employee gets fired for misconduct, as they are not meant to influence the game (bumping is influencing it) and if requested they are meant to leave local. Now GS pilot post thread on the forums stating how ISD were helping BoB and the community goes in to anti BoB overdrive. Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Does this effect the end result? Nope Does this effect the in game balance? Nope believe it or not the firing of the ISD member had zero effect on the outcome of the fight/war Maybe if CCP had spawned 100 titans to BoB you would have a case, but as it stands there is no case here just a load of what ifs. this issue has nothing to do with the war you are off topic if you wish to discuss this further this, create your own thread for it
Zellyn	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:58:00 - [2856] Originally by: Fayed Nwani We are the whiniest gaming community on the internet. So whiny, in fact, that our whining gets us on Slashdot. All these arguments for this huge conspiracy forget about one unavoidable problem: CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. If someone asked me if I'd rather backstab an online enemy, or say, have a place to sleep at night, my choice would be a roof over my head, especially if I was living in Iceland. My favorite part of this entire thread, though, was when everyone started aggrandizing the guy pretending to be a former Blizzard employee. "Bottom line, CCP doesn't care." A penetrating analysis by an industry insider. Pointless ranting, you say? No, surely not, he worked for Blizzard! Regardless of whether or not he actually was an employee at Blizzard, nothing he said is wrong. Blizzard goes to insane lengths to prevent any kind of exploitation. However, having played WoW for the better part of three years, I can safely say that it is definitely true that Blizzard does their damnedest to keep the corporation and the players seperate. So, the fact that the it is even possible for GMs, Devs and whatever other assorted admin-esque entities populate EVE can interact in these ways with the player-base is an insult to every player who was inticed to play this game based on the lure of a world controlled (for the most part) by the players.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:58:00 - [2857] This ISD 'bumping' the dreads. According to his post, the GM tools themselves bring you within bumping distance of a target ship. If this is the case, then the ISD member was banned for the wrong reason. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
DeTox MinRohim Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:59:00 - [2858] Posting again in an epic boring thread but after a lot of sleepy thinking into it, I found a good reason: I wish to congratulate the forum Mods (Rauth in particular) for keeping up reading all this crap and snipping the trolling and stuff. Your patience is a gift that not many have. You guys are awesome to keep up like this. For the others that keeps whining and quitting Eve before there is anything worth reading from the concerned people, I still feel a bit of lag, please keep up. Hamsters will send you a "Thank you" card. ------ This sig space is Read-only ! omgalink
Sujin Kai Starship Direct	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:59:00 - [2859] Originally by: D'Artagnan I am interested to know what would have happened if the situation had been reversed. Now lets see what would have happened if a ISD frigate had bumped a GS dread. GS pilot: leave local ISD pilot: No GS pilot writes a petition. GM reads the petition checks the logs the ISD pilot gets fired. The end result is a CCP employee gets fired for misconduct, as they are not meant to influence the game (bumping is influencing it) and if requested they are meant to leave local. Now GS pilot post thread on the forums stating how ISD were helping BoB and the community goes in to anti BoB overdrive. Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Does this effect the end result? Nope Does this effect the in game balance? Nope believe it or not the firing of the ISD member had zero effect on the outcome of the fight/war Maybe if CCP had spawned 100 titans to BoB you would have a case, but as it stands there is no case here just a load of what ifs. BoB MSN their dev friends and an ISD guy gets fired for allegedly bumping a dread. Goons stage a massive campaign to create public awareness of a dev corruption issue in which a dev literally cheated for free T2 BPOs and then gave them to his friends in BoB, who knew he was a dev, and the dev in question doesn't get fired. IT'S A TOTALLY LEVEL PLAYING FIELD!
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:00:00 - [2860] Originally by: Vasili Z Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Vasili Z This entire thing is a huge zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... Thanks for this insightful contribution. It's good to see that you care about integrity and fair play, regardless of who is harmed or benefited. Ya, because you were harmed so much, your entire reason to play is ruined, you better quit now. You will never recover from this, ever. God, go play a new spaceship game.... We all are affected from this, doesnt matter if we are Goons, BoB, or whatever. I dont like both of those alliances but i want to play in a fair game and not seing other people being victim of censorship like it is done in China. We live in the western Hemisphere for Christ's Sake and if CCP doesnt take this one very serious and do the RIGHT things, then you guys finally reach your goal. Destroying the game, but oh wait, ****e no other players to play with anymore.
Kahor Minmatar Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:00:00 - [2861] Proof or STFU ? The open letter provided no proof apart a few chat logs, that if true, only serve to proove that BoB had a direct link to contact CCP after the t20 fiasco, that do not prove that BoB abused it, or that the ISD was wrongly banned, It doesn't prove either that GOON really had a petition for sharkbait or that they really contacted IA instead on coming on those forums. If nothing, the complete chat log of the affair posted on kugut web site, if true, show that the ISD acted like a*****, defo not professional by adding fuel to fire the smack. That is all. ---------------- An eye for an eye make a whole world blind.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:01:00 - [2862] Edited by: Mr Friendly on 27/05/2007 12:02:56 Originally by: Corvin Demeter Massive EVE Subscription Price Rise? I am on a trial account...two days ago the monthly sub was E14.99 or $14.99. Now it is one price on the website E19.95 (inc vat). The equivalent of nearly $28!! What is going on??? Odd, mine's still at 14.95 USD, but I'm in Canada. CCP's bilking Europe? Weird. edit: ahh, Shin cleared it up. NM Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:02:00 - [2863] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Malachon Draco .. I know why the lynch mob exists, but that does not justify it. I guess I am just a stickler for the rules (boy do I know that is going to be flamed, but it is true). I guess that what comes from being a home owning father of two in England. Maybe I should be more revolutionary, but it just isn't in my nature. I think that society works because it is bound by rules, and when you bypass those rules for whatever reason, society suffers. Look at this thread as a perfect example of that. It may be a quest for justice (which I honestly don't think it is), but can you say that is doing more good than harm? If IA were allowed to handle this in the correct way then the eventualy outcome would probably be the same, but without the drama and the pitchforks. Without the bad publicity and community bile. I'm not against justice being done, but I think there is a right way to go about it. no one was defaming your character so it was not necessary to say that you own property and have two children..that and it doesn't make anything that you say any more or less credible if anything, you were defaming goonfleet's character..implying that because we used an illegitimate way to bring light to this issue, that it automatically gives way to everything we do and say being illegitimate..and all evidence provided to be illegitimate as well
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:02:00 - [2864] Originally by: Avon I'm not against justice being done, but I think there is a right way to go about it. And you can even download it for free from http://messenger.live.com! Also, I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace.
Haurik Tagelston	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:03:00 - [2865] Edited by: Haurik Tagelston on 27/05/2007 12:02:39 This is the most ******** thread ever, even for being eve-o. No proof no anything and ccp saying they looking into it. Just have some patience. You no longer have to prove that you are stupid. I'm convinced. Edit: Above poster obviously already qualified. He got me convinced.
Junkie Beverage	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:03:00 - [2866] Originally by: D'Artagnan Maybe if CCP had spawned 100 titans to BoB you would have a case, but as it stands there is no case here just a load of what ifs. How about 10 t2 bpos?
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:04:00 - [2867] Originally by: Avon Originally by: BobFromMarketing Petitions were made, they were deleted, not closed. Emails were sent, no response. Now, according to CCP those are the correct avenues, but according to you they arent. Just to be absolutely clear, those emails were sent to the IA department, right? I look forward to them confirming that. Fight the good fight you mighty forum warrior. Let's see, Goonswarm is putting forth only 1 of the 3 allegations here. It's not even "our" thing as you try to make it. Even if it was our duty to report the allegations to IA, when has CCP proven itself trustworthy enough to handle a scandal like this professionally? They haven't. With the t20 issue CCP made a huge effort in covering up, denying, and lieing until they simply couldn't do it anymore and had to come clean. Afterwards their response was to give a slap on the wrist, and then act more angry at the fact that they got caught than the fact that something wrong had been done by one of their employees. So when the same thing happens again, and they respond in the same exact manner as they did before, by trying to cover it up with petition deletion, thread deletion, and banning we're expected to just send them an email and think anything is really going to come from it?
Jorix Amarr Phoenix Logistics Industries	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:05:00 - [2868] Hmmmm whether these allegations are true or not, it doesn't look good for CCP. If the allegations in Goonswarms letter are forged or made up, then I think they did a particularly good job of it. Either way CCP, please don't let something like this kill Eve online. Unfortunately, these allegations are now all over the web on MMO gaming sites, and will likely turn away many potential Eve players. I really believe you need to take strong action to show that Eve developers do not have an unfair advantage when playing the game. I am not suggesting that developers should be banned from playing the game because that would be ridiculous - nearly every other game has its developers playing it, including most MMORPGs. And I think having developers playing Eve mostly benefits the game as they can see areas where the game might need improvement. However, if it becomes necessary to prevent bad publicity killing off Eve online, perhaps the developers should be limited to what they can do when they play the game, and how they can communicate with the player community. Even if this means limiting developers to playing on the test server only. I will for the moment continue to play Eve online because its a great game, but if CCP thinks that the target of 300,000 subscribers by the end of 2008 is realistic, then I think they will need to take some strong actions to clean up their act.
D'Artagnan Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:06:00 - [2869] Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: D'Artagnan I am interested to know what would have happened if the situation had been reversed. Now lets see what would have happened if a ISD frigate had bumped a GS dread. GS pilot: leave local ISD pilot: No GS pilot writes a petition. GM reads the petition checks the logs the ISD pilot gets fired. The end result is a CCP employee gets fired for misconduct, as they are not meant to influence the game (bumping is influencing it) and if requested they are meant to leave local. Now GS pilot post thread on the forums stating how ISD were helping BoB and the community goes in to anti BoB overdrive. Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Does this effect the end result? Nope Does this effect the in game balance? Nope believe it or not the firing of the ISD member had zero effect on the outcome of the fight/war Maybe if CCP had spawned 100 titans to BoB you would have a case, but as it stands there is no case here just a load of what ifs. this issue has nothing to do with the war you are off topic if you wish to discuss this further this, create your own thread for it You are missing the point, this whole post is about how BoB have a unfair advantage, but i am asking you how? as the firing of a ISD member for not doing his job has not provided any advantages to BoB. BoB having contact with the GMs is a non-issue in less it has been exploited which as far as i can see it has not. And i am referring to this issue not the T20 issue.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:06:00 - [2870] Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Avon Originally by: BobFromMarketing Petitions were made, they were deleted, not closed. Emails were sent, no response. Now, according to CCP those are the correct avenues, but according to you they arent. Just to be absolutely clear, those emails were sent to the IA department, right? I look forward to them confirming that. Fight the good fight you mighty forum warrior. Let's see, Goonswarm is putting forth only 1 of the 3 allegations here. It's not even "our" thing as you try to make it. Even if it was our duty to report the allegations to IA, when has CCP proven itself trustworthy enough to handle a scandal like this professionally? They haven't. With the t20 issue CCP made a huge effort in covering up, denying, and lieing until they simply couldn't do it anymore and had to come clean. Afterwards their response was to give a slap on the wrist, and then act more angry at the fact that they got caught than the fact that something wrong had been done by one of their employees. So when the same thing happens again, and they respond in the same exact manner as they did before, by trying to cover it up with petition deletion, thread deletion, and banning we're expected to just send them an email and think anything is really going to come from it? Sorry, was that a "yes" the email was sent to IA, or "no", it wasn't? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
AceOfSpace Pineapple Blunder	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:07:00 - [2871] Edited by: AceOfSpace on 27/05/2007 12:06:05 Originally by: Sujin Kai ... Goons stage a massive campaign to create public awareness of a dev corruption issue in which a dev literally cheated for free T2 BPOs and then gave them to his friends in BoB, who knew he was a dev, and the dev in question doesn't get fired. IT'S A TOTALLY LEVEL PLAYING FIELD! My impression of this was that he didn't get fired because he was such close friends with Oveur, and it would have been too disruptive at the top. Didn't think it was to do with BoB. Anyway that was before their new rules and the internal investigations department, so I was personally okay with letting it go and moving on. Really don't know what to make of this new thing, except that it's upsetting. -it's my job to do it-
Fayed Nwani Minmatar The Legitimate Nigerian Businessmans Club	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:07:00 - [2872] Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Fayed Nwani CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. The t20 incedent has already proven that is not always the case. It's really more a case of if employees believe they can get away with it. agreed..what fayed nwani is saying is the equivalent of A) humans beings try to survive B) in order to survive in the modern day, human beings require a job/career/source of income so in conclusion C) ALL human beings have the safety of their jobs at CCP as their top priority in life Nope, you grossly and purposely mischaracterized my argument. You, among others, are claiming that CCP employees are currently engaged in cheating at the risk of their jobs even after one employee was very nearly fired and the consequence of cheating was made abundantly clear. So I'm not misunderstood again, lets keep it to two syllables or less: Why with so much to lose and so little to gain would they do that? -----------------------------
Sir MilBanacky Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:08:00 - [2873] I for one hope that we do not get a repeat of the lat scandal. CCP Answer situation #1 but totally ignore #2 #3 #4 then go on Slashdot and blow smoke up their butt's answering everything but the direct scandal questions :( Now there are alot of good folk's in CCP Im sure but they need to stop letting their employees play in this game and they need to put a Stop to any and all personal contact with the playerbase Except when they are interacting at FanFest!
ssorion Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:08:00 - [2874] Originally by: D'Artagnan Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Key difference is, "open letter" assumes that BoB asked IT dept staff to interrupt in things, which are not within his authority. Each matter should be handled by appropriate people, and in appropriate ways. Sorry, but its awful if IT guys are handling staff issues, next logical step is IA handling DB/IT issues, QA writing the code, and coders testing and approving it... :P
NeoTech Minmatar Furious Vendetta FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:09:00 - [2875] Disgusting!
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:09:00 - [2876] Hmm, just to see if one conspiracy theory could hold ground... If I was to petition something, then wait for Sharkbait to come and start doing his thing, and then I delete the petition - does the petition gets wiped out from the DB completely, or it remains in DB (with whatever flags set to make it removed/inactive/etc) so it can still be accessed for later audit? I mean, if CCP would really wipe out the record when player deletes petition... Could some of BoB guys quickly check this, over MSN, with their buddies, and let us know? (yeah, it was ebil ^^ - sorry, couldn't resist :)
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:09:00 - [2877] Originally by: Fayed Nwani So I'm not misunderstood again, lets keep it to two syllables or less: Why with so much to lose and so little to gain would they do that? Because human are not completely rational being.
Deaken Fiss GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:09:00 - [2878] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Avon Originally by: BobFromMarketing Petitions were made, they were deleted, not closed. Emails were sent, no response. Now, according to CCP those are the correct avenues, but according to you they arent. Just to be absolutely clear, those emails were sent to the IA department, right? I look forward to them confirming that. Fight the good fight you mighty forum warrior. Let's see, Goonswarm is putting forth only 1 of the 3 allegations here. It's not even "our" thing as you try to make it. Even if it was our duty to report the allegations to IA, when has CCP proven itself trustworthy enough to handle a scandal like this professionally? They haven't. With the t20 issue CCP made a huge effort in covering up, denying, and lieing until they simply couldn't do it anymore and had to come clean. Afterwards their response was to give a slap on the wrist, and then act more angry at the fact that they got caught than the fact that something wrong had been done by one of their employees. So when the same thing happens again, and they respond in the same exact manner as they did before, by trying to cover it up with petition deletion, thread deletion, and banning we're expected to just send them an email and think anything is really going to come from it? Sorry, was that a "yes" the email was sent to IA, or "no", it wasn't? oh god... avon do us all a favour and stay silent ok? going after ccps reaction of the past even if you ask the IA if there was a letter they'll say no, as it helps covering things up no? just let it drop... you are beating a dead horse here...
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:11:00 - [2879] Originally by: D'Artagnan You are missing the point, this whole post is about how BoB have a unfair advantage, but i am asking you how? Well you yourself have confirmed that if your alliance wants something accomplished, even to the point of getting a staff member fired, they can MSN a dev friend to do it for them instantly. For those of us stuck waiting a week or so on the off chance a petition will actually get answered positively that's a pretty significant advantage.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:11:00 - [2880] Originally by: Abdullah al'Weyouni Why can't they just ban that goddam Goonswarm scum and delete the alliance and all the assets of those worthless piece of **s?? No one likes those childsh mofos anyway, and that would solve all probs at once. inspiring and informative. please, never post again. Originally by:** Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:12:00 - [2881] Originally by: D'Artagnan Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: D'Artagnan I am interested to know what would have happened if the situation had been reversed. Now lets see what would have happened if a ISD frigate had bumped a GS dread. GS pilot: leave local ISD pilot: No GS pilot writes a petition. GM reads the petition checks the logs the ISD pilot gets fired. The end result is a CCP employee gets fired for misconduct, as they are not meant to influence the game (bumping is influencing it) and if requested they are meant to leave local. Now GS pilot post thread on the forums stating how ISD were helping BoB and the community goes in to anti BoB overdrive. Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Does this effect the end result? Nope Does this effect the in game balance? Nope believe it or not the firing of the ISD member had zero effect on the outcome of the fight/war Maybe if CCP had spawned 100 titans to BoB you would have a case, but as it stands there is no case here just a load of what ifs. this issue has nothing to do with the war you are off topic if you wish to discuss this further this, create your own thread for it You are missing the point, this whole post is about how BoB have a unfair advantage, but i am asking you how? as the firing of a ISD member for not doing his job has not provided any advantages to BoB. BoB having contact with the GMs is a non-issue in less it has been exploited which as far as i can see it has not. And i am referring to this issue not the T20 issue. it's not only about bob having an unfair playing advantage..it's about the collusion and corruption of a FEW, bring able to affect the game for MANY..even 1 corrupt gm/dev is 1 too many...even 1 bob member with a private connection with a dev/gm is 1 too many..because all it takes is 1 person's actions to destroy the entire game
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:12:00 - [2882] Originally by: Deaken Fiss just let it drop... you are beating a dead horse here... It certainly would seem that getting a straight answer could be equated to said metaphor. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Junkie Beverage GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:12:00 - [2883] Originally by: Fayed Nwani Why with so much to lose and so little to gain would they do that? a slap on the wrist doesn't actually hurt that much just sayin'
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:12:00 - [2884] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 12:11:21 Originally by: Avon It certainly would seem that getting a straight answer could be equated to said metaphor. Man, it's horrible when people keep dodging questions isn't it. Incidentally, I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace.
Ovale KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:12:00 - [2885] Yawn... 99.9% of EVE accounts don't care about this. Including me.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:13:00 - [2886] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Malachon Draco .. I know why the lynch mob exists, but that does not justify it. I guess I am just a stickler for the rules (boy do I know that is going to be flamed, but it is true). I guess that what comes from being a home owning father of two in England. Maybe I should be more revolutionary, but it just isn't in my nature. I think that society works because it is bound by rules, and when you bypass those rules for whatever reason, society suffers. Look at this thread as a perfect example of that. It may be a quest for justice (which I honestly don't think it is), but can you say that is doing more good than harm? If IA were allowed to handle this in the correct way then the eventualy outcome would probably be the same, but without the drama and the pitchforks. Without the bad publicity and community bile. I'm not against justice being done, but I think there is a right way to go about it. I'll let the easy score about following rules slide From a point of view of being a 'stickler for rules', I can see what you're saying. But I think I am a bit more practical. Lets take a look for a second at a democracy. I've read quite a few books about how democracy works and why it works (now I know EVE/CCP is not a democracy, but bear with me for a second). Democracy works because the basic principle of involving people in the decisionmaking process increases their willingness to abide by the results of that decisionmaking process, even when they don't agree with it. Now of course, CCP is not a democracy, but that doesn't mean certain basic principles don't apply elsewhere as well. CCP sets a set of rules. People PERCEIVE (whether true or not is irrelevant) that that set of rules is not being used evenhandedly or even that the rules are wrong. Because of that, the value of the rules in terms of making people abide by them without enforcement, diminishes. And thus the cost of enforcement rises as more and more people disregard the rules. Which is exactly what we have here. CCP set in place a number of rules and procedures. People abided by them for the most part, until the T20 thing happened, and then distrust set in. When distrust set in, enforcement of the rules became more problematic. Then the subsequent incidents, and the responses from Dianabolic, and the rules were suddenly irrelevant. Or perhaps to put it in less words, CCP and perhaps also BoB should have recognized that what happened in the past eroded the confidence of the playerbase. CCP should have realized they have been walking on eggshells for the past 3 months. And they didn't. And just to put it in an example. Imagine you're a Ku Klux Klan member, you put on your white dress and pointy white hat, step into a car and drive to Brooklyn and start running down the street with a burning cross in his hands. Perfectly legal of course. But I am pretty sure no policeman would risk trying to keep this guy alive when half the neighbourhood comes out to lynch his ass. You can point at 'the rules' all you want in a situation like this, but even rules have their limits. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:13:00 - [2887] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 12:11:21 Originally by: Avon It certainly would seem that getting a straight answer could be equated to said metaphor. Man, it's horrible when people keep dodging questions isn't it. It is almost as if they have something to hide, isn't it? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:14:00 - [2888] Originally by: Fayed Nwani Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Fayed Nwani CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. The t20 incedent has already proven that is not always the case. It's really more a case of if employees believe they can get away with it. agreed..what fayed nwani is saying is the equivalent of A) humans beings try to survive B) in order to survive in the modern day, human beings require a job/career/source of income so in conclusion C) ALL human beings have the safety of their jobs at CCP as their top priority in life Nope, you grossly and purposely mischaracterized my argument. You, among others, are claiming that CCP employees are currently engaged in cheating at the risk of their jobs even after one employee was very nearly fired and the consequence of cheating was made abundantly clear. So I'm not misunderstood again, lets keep it to two syllables or less: Why with so much to lose and so little to gain would they do that? why with so much to lose, would orange species show that he knew exactly who petitioned him and exactly how many people petitioned him..why, with so much to lose, would a bob member reveal to everybody in local that he can have the ISD reporter FIRED AT WILL...why, with so much to lose, would a dev leave behind bpos for an alliance?
Graisse	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:20:00 - [2889] Edited by: Graisse on 27/05/2007 12:18:52 http://www.f13.net/?itemid=563 f13.net: Now, on the other side of that same fence, we have CCP. Have you watched CCP's latest debacle? With the developers playing and cheating? Raph: Yeah, I watched it, it's like "here we go again". f13.net: What do you mean, "here we go again"? Raph: This has happened before! f13.net: On the same scale? In the same way? And in what games? Raph: Yeah, on the same scale in the same way! Do I have to muckrake ten year old history? Does no one remember GM Darwin? f13.net: Well, I don't, personally... Raph: You don't remember GM Darwin. You have some Googling to do. Yeah, there's been plenty of cases historically of admin abuse, even for financial gain. And usually the companies want to deal with it very quietly, right, because nobody wants to admit it... f13.net: No-one wants to drag each other's reputations through the mud. Raph: The company, from a liability point of view, can't! They run the risk of being sued. So the company's always... there's no good reason for the company to want it out there, right? Selfishly, on many different angles. I think that there is a level of responsibility to the public to come clean and say "Hey, this won't happen again." But they really can't delve into what happened, exactly! f13.net: Even if the public is screaming and wants that, they really can't do it, legally... Raph: They REALLY can't do it, legally. It's a tricky line. They can't tell you... it's the same thing, they can't tell you why somebody left the company. There's all kinds of things companies can't do. So, you know, I feel for the CCP guys because I'm sure they never intended for it to happen, I'm sure as soon as it did happen, they moved on it, but they're between a rock and a hard place. f13.net: They're in a particular situation because they have a relatively zero-sum PVP game. If someone gives someone else the best armor in WoW, it doesn't affect your play, in general... Raph: I'm not sure, in terms of the public perception, that even matters. The players still feel screwed over, zero-sum or not. So... (shrugs)
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:22:00 - [2890] Originally by: Avon Sorry, was that a "yes" the email was sent to IA, or "no", it wasn't? Does it matter? And to who? Let's try "yes" and "no" too. Avon, are you aware (or have you even been aware) if any of your corp/alliance mates have ever established out-of-game communications with CCP employees/volunteers, during your stay in BoB? Are you aware if any of your corp/alliance mates have ever received any information from those contacts, that are in any way related to EVE?
Crux Australis Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:23:00 - [2891] I stopped reading at page 90-something. The highlights that I have worked out are: - bob cheats (ingame and out of game) - bob has preferential treatment (ingame and out of game) - ccp condones/supports bob cheating (ingame and out of game) - ccp is aligned in first person with bob (ingame and out of game) - the game is rigged - non bob aligned entities cannot win since the deck is stacked against them - at this point nothing that ccp does can restore the trust of a part of the player base whish is feeling betrayed/cheated/etc I am not going to debate anything here, but just to add my 0,02 isk: - If you feel that you are victims of a/many wrongdoing/s - If you think that ccp doesn't care and hence will try to cover up/unjustly ban/silence and then continue in its behaviour Then you have only one option left (I don't know if lawsuits are an option in this case and I'm not an e-lawyer (or rl lawyer)). This option is: hurt them where it matters, deny them income, cancel subscription. There is no point in paying who is making hell of your free, chill out time. Right? I for one would/will do it if/when the time comes. Am I biased because I am a bobbit? Probably, but hey. Have a nice day. Originally by: Tuxford Sure play gallente and caldari if you like, just don't be upset when I waste your ass in a hurricane.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:24:00 - [2892] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Avon Sorry, was that a "yes" the email was sent to IA, or "no", it wasn't? Does it matter? And to who? Let's try "yes" and "no" too. Avon, are you aware (or have you even been aware) if any of your corp/alliance mates have ever established out-of-game communications with CCP employees/volunteers, during your stay in BoB? Does it matter? Quote: Are you aware if any of your corp/alliance mates have ever received any information from those contacts, that are in any way related to EVE? And to who? Not a helpful approach, is it? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:25:00 - [2893] Originally by: D'Artagnan I The end result is a CCP employee gets fired for misconduct, as they are not meant to influence the game (bumping is influencing it) and if requested they are meant to leave local. Can anyone verify if ISD is supposed to leave if requested? The ISD-whistleblower implies this is NOT the case, and frankly it seems stupid that would be required to leave. After all, reporting seems a thankless job in thankless circumstances, but would need a fair bit of autonomy to accomplish the job. Second, can anyone verify if the GM 'move to' command is indeed ONLY move to within 1 foot of Ship X (as the isd guy also implies), or if it has more than one distance? These 2 issues seem to be part of the heart of the discussion. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Lori Carlyle LuthorCorp Combat Division	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:26:00 - [2894] TBH This won't keep me from playing the game, it will keep me from ever going into 0.0 or joining an alliance again.. Empire appears to be a kinda level gaming ground, Alliances appear to be who's got the most Dev's in there back pocket, I'm not saying these things are true or not, but if Dev's can't keep there sticky fingers out of player alliances, then I want nothing else to do with them. ----------------- FIX THE FREAKING DRONES ALREADY
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:26:00 - [2895] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Avon Originally by: BobFromMarketing Petitions were made, they were deleted, not closed. Emails were sent, no response. Now, according to CCP those are the correct avenues, but according to you they arent. Just to be absolutely clear, those emails were sent to the IA department, right? I look forward to them confirming that. Fight the good fight you mighty forum warrior. Let's see, Goonswarm is putting forth only 1 of the 3 allegations here. It's not even "our" thing as you try to make it. Even if it was our duty to report the allegations to IA, when has CCP proven itself trustworthy enough to handle a scandal like this professionally? They haven't. With the t20 issue CCP made a huge effort in covering up, denying, and lieing until they simply couldn't do it anymore and had to come clean. Afterwards their response was to give a slap on the wrist, and then act more angry at the fact that they got caught than the fact that something wrong had been done by one of their employees. So when the same thing happens again, and they respond in the same exact manner as they did before, by trying to cover it up with petition deletion, thread deletion, and banning we're expected to just send them an email and think anything is really going to come from it? Sorry, was that a "yes" the email was sent to IA, or "no", it wasn't? It's a "I can't ask 4000 people whether they did or didn't mail IA about an issue not even specific to goonswarm but it doesn't matter anyway and you know it". You're simply trying to turn the focus off of yourself and on to us and you're failing more miserably at it with every passing intellectually dishonest debate tactic.
King Hopy	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:27:00 - [2896] I wouldnt mind someone having direct connection to the developers as long as it doesnt give them an advantage that bends the rules of the game. If they could tell the developers to disconnect f.e xx amount of people from x alliance it would make a difference. If they however can directly contact the developers about bugs or someone acting against the rules of conduct etc etc how does it affect other people's playing? As long as they cant get something to happen that normally wouldnt.. well I dont see any harm in it. How do you know if someone got fired because bob asked? Or was it just because the things he was doing were a reason to fire the person? (if that even did happen?) Just let them investigate... If you dont believe that they can investigate it without bending the truth.. well then its honestly your time to quit.
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:28:00 - [2897] Originally by: Avon In other words, no, I am not an official forum poster for BoB. That must be the reason then that you always show up to massage away the horrible mess your alliance leaders consistently make of their public statements. As the long-standing 'forum celeb' that you are, I'm sure you'll indulge us with some more obtuse word-play regarding the admissions of Dianabolic earlier in this thread? As the self-proclaimed 'forum hero' that (think) you are, you'll no doubt infuse it with some ill-conceived threaths to do some pew-pew to yours truly (always welcome), as well as some heart-touching references to your family-life (parents, kids, you'll think of something). On the whole though, there are some on this forum who find your integrity and sincerity somewhat lacking of late. Must be something to do with your blind support and membership of an alliance that gets caught repeatedly cheating in this game. Personally, I think you're nothing but a hand-puppet and that your perceived 'fair' stance on matters only exists in your own head, but who cares about that right? --
Dray Caldari Endgame.	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:30:00 - [2898] Originally by: Fayed Nwani CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. If someone asked me if I'd rather backstab an online enemy, or say, have a place to sleep at night, my choice would be a roof over my head, especially if I was living in Iceland. T20 cared more about his job than ingame shennanigans which is why hes still working for CCP, I mean no, he didnt which is why hes still working for CCP, I mean no, I mean, f**k knows what I mean, but T20 cheated and still works for CCP
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:31:00 - [2899] Originally by: Toffles It's a "I can't ask 4000 people whether they did or didn't mail IA about an issue not even specific to goonswarm but it doesn't matter anyway and you know it". You're simply trying to turn the focus off of yourself and on to us and you're failing more miserably at it with every passing intellectually dishonest debate tactic. My failure is clearly indcated by the number of people trying to shut me up / derail me. If no-one knows if IA was emailed, and that is the correct way to report this, then why do we keep hearing that all the correct avenues were tried, but they were closed, and that is why the threadnaught was required? If you want parity, everyone to be treated equally, you don't do that by lowering yourself to the level of those you accuse. If, however, you want a drama-bomb... The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Bruno Capri Minmatar The Scarecrows	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:34:00 - [2900] Originally by: D'Artagnan Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: D'Artagnan I am interested to know what would have happened if the situation had been reversed. Now lets see what would have happened if a ISD frigate had bumped a GS dread. GS pilot: leave local ISD pilot: No GS pilot writes a petition. GM reads the petition checks the logs the ISD pilot gets fired. The end result is a CCP employee gets fired for misconduct, as they are not meant to influence the game (bumping is influencing it) and if requested they are meant to leave local. Now GS pilot post thread on the forums stating how ISD were helping BoB and the community goes in to anti BoB overdrive. Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Does this effect the end result? Nope Does this effect the in game balance? Nope believe it or not the firing of the ISD member had zero effect on the outcome of the fight/war Maybe if CCP had spawned 100 titans to BoB you would have a case, but as it stands there is no case here just a load of what ifs. this issue has nothing to do with the war you are off topic if you wish to discuss this further this, create your own thread for it You are missing the point, this whole post is about how BoB have a unfair advantage, but i am asking you how? as the firing of a ISD member for not doing his job has not provided any advantages to BoB. BoB having contact with the GMs is a non-issue in less it has been exploited which as far as i can see it has not. And i am referring to this issue not the T20 issue. I think the issue most ppl have with this is that by using MSN to contact a GM/Dev, the proper channels were by-passed with immediate action by the GM/Dev. This could be considered an unfair advantage due to the short time it took for a GM/Dev to intervene. If you reverse the scenario and a GS pilot petitioned the ISD member for misconduct then would it have taken such a short time to get actioned? _______________ Fight the Power
Starfinder Firing Squad Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:34:00 - [2901] Originally by: Fayed Nwani Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Fayed Nwani CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. The t20 incedent has already proven that is not always the case. It's really more a case of if employees believe they can get away with it. agreed..what fayed nwani is saying is the equivalent of A) humans beings try to survive B) in order to survive in the modern day, human beings require a job/career/source of income so in conclusion C) ALL human beings have the safety of their jobs at CCP as their top priority in life Nope, you grossly and purposely mischaracterized my argument. You, among others, are claiming that CCP employees are currently engaged in cheating at the risk of their jobs even after one employee was very nearly fired and the consequence of cheating was made abundantly clear. So I'm not misunderstood again, lets keep it to two syllables or less: Why with so much to lose and so little to gain would they do that? Because being threatened with firing and actually being fired are very far apart on the scale of how people percieve things. If CCP employees learned anything from the t20 incident, it is that they can break the rules and get away with it if the are very valuable employees or have close relationships with the people in charge.
Chr0nosX The Good Fellas The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:35:00 - [2902] I usually wouldn't believe something like this but after the t20 scandal it is highly possible. I thought CCP would of sorted out any sign of BOB corruption. It is a bit fishy this happened just when goons started being destroyed by BOB.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:35:00 - [2903] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Avon Sorry, was that a "yes" the email was sent to IA, or "no", it wasn't? Does it matter? And to who? Let's try "yes" and "no" too. Avon, are you aware (or have you even been aware) if any of your corp/alliance mates have ever established out-of-game communications with CCP employees/volunteers, during your stay in BoB? Does it matter? Quote: Are you aware if any of your corp/alliance mates have ever received any information from those contacts, that are in any way related to EVE? And to who? Not a helpful approach, is it? If I was a Goon, then it'd make sense. But I can't answer your questions to Goons, so no need to use your logic for Goons on my questions. I was only asking does it matter and to who. You could've simply answered to who does it matter, and then you could've answered other 2 questions. But you choose not to.
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:37:00 - [2904] Edited by: Effei Gloom on 27/05/2007 12:38:23 Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 27/05/2007 12:18:32 Originally by: D'Artagnan I am interested to know what would have happened if the situation had been reversed. Now lets see what would have happened if a ISD frigate had bumped a GS dread. GS pilot: leave local ISD pilot: No GS pilot writes a petition. GM reads the petition checks the logs the ISD pilot gets fired. The end result is a CCP employee gets fired for misconduct, as they are not meant to influence the game (bumping is influencing it) and if requested they are meant to leave local. Now GS pilot post thread on the forums stating how ISD were helping BoB and the community goes in to anti BoB overdrive. Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Does this effect the end result? Nope Does this effect the in game balance? Nope believe it or not the firing of the ISD member had zero effect on the outcome of the fight/war Maybe if CCP had spawned 100 titans to BoB you would have a case, but as it stands there is no case here just a load of what ifs. This looks fun, let me try: Coalition puts a bunch of pos's into reinforced. The next day they show up to finish them as they exit reinforced. However, a bug has struck and all the towers are exiting reinforced with full shields. The coalition files petitions frantically as the towers slowly do this same behavior one after the other. Finally a GM shows up and says he can't help you because his logs don't show anything. Tough luck. Now, BoB does the exact same thing. Sees the same bug happening, gets GM buddy to show up right away and the issue is fixed before every tower has exited reinforced. POS towers that are back to full shield instead of leaving reinforced mode, i remember this was petitioned during the ASCN <-> BOB war. - next minnie Outpost bpc me:5 available in 25 days -
drillerkiller2004	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:38:00 - [2905] Originally by: Crux Australis Am I biased because I am a bobbit? Probably, but hey. Have a nice day. Enough said really.
The Dokter 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:41:00 - [2906] First if you don't trust CCP and want to quiet the game, do it, donÆt post in this thread anymore and just go too account details and quiet. Second; the way Goons handled this where was as always, way out of proportion. If you think something is wrong, petition it, if that isnÆt working petition it again (And no donÆt spam petition with all your alliance, like you have stated on your forums). If then again the petition is deleted or nothing happens. Mail ccp, mail the isd, mail the devs. And so on, when even then you problem isnÆt handled. Make one, I state this again, one forum post about it in general discussion and see what happens. Spamming in all the forums, is not the way to go and seems more you wanted to grief 100k players. Third: If something has been done by one dev, or one isd member that isnÆt oke. Let CCP have some time to fix it. I agree with a lot of people on this forum, that I would have loved to see a bit more information about the handling of the T20 problem and also about other problems. So yes, if there is something wrong, post the whole story one eve-o and say what you have done about it. Forth: People donÆt jump the gun so fast. I could be that there is nothing happened. And that this is all one big forum drama. An dev joining a corp to fix something,. Oke he should have mailed the corp in advance. An isd member being, kicked because he was bumping a dread, if it was my dread I would be rather upset. Kicking is going rather far but oke, maybe there where other things happening we donÆt know. So some info would be nice about it. And last, rigging the events, do we actually know what this rigging was about. Maybe it was about bloodraiders having to win from gallente otherwise the story line for the next patch wouldnÆt work? The ISD team are volunteers, so we donÆt know how much they know about certain stuff. my 2 cents "It is a good idea to "shop around" before you settle on a doctor. He can kill you."
Druadan Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:42:00 - [2907] Why do CCP not understand that in an MMO you need to hire GMs who are not only good at the job, but have the moral rectitude to carry out the charge of that job without cheating? CCP, you screwed up last time with the t20 fiasco, because your senior staff weren't around to handle it. Try not to give us the same bull this time around, I don't think it washed with many people last time, and it certainly won't wash with me this time. Let some heads roll. Look at the situation. We have a BoB guy logging into his CCP GM char to get an ISD guy banned because he didn't follow an order. And order he shouldn't have followed because it was from a player. We have a CCP GM putting himself into a GoonSwarm corp as Director, to look at what a POS was building, and then trying to claim he was fixing a bug with the POS, when the POS was working fine. We have the Aurora roleplaying arcs being fixed to bring a result that CCP have already pre-ordained. What the hell are you doing? In 12 months time I'm going to graduate from university with a Software Engineering degree, and I'm fairly sure by that point I will have crossed CCP off my list of places I want to work. I would like to work with some professional staff, not this bunch of incompetents. Start culling your useless GMs, who, in their petition responses, routinely show they know very little about the workings of the game, and your corrupt GMs, and start applying some god damned standards to your recruitment process. Christ on a technicolour dreambike, guys, get a clue! __________________________________________________ "A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:46:00 - [2908] Originally by: D'Artagnan You are missing the point, this whole post is about how BoB have a unfair advantage, but i am asking you how? as the firing of a ISD member for not doing his job has not provided any advantages to BoB. BoB having contact with the GMs is a non-issue in less it has been exploited which as far as i can see it has not. And i am referring to this issue not the T20 issue. You seem to be glossing over the allegations that the ISD in question was allegedly gagged and then fired nearly immediately and ALL of his Eve related stuff was removed because a member of BoB suppossedly MSN'd a Dev. If true, how does that NOT mean BoB had an unfair advantage in that particular situation? Further, if BoB had that sort of pull then, why should I NOT believe BoB USUALLY has that sort of pull. In logic, the instantiation of one CERTAINLY implies the possibility of more than one, and DEFINATELY opens the door to more than one all the way to ALL. That's a basic tenet. I suggest you take Logic 101. Come on now, we're not mentally handicapped. If you can't see that, I fear that you are willfully ignoring basic logical structures. Shame on you. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Kingtemplar	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:49:00 - [2909] What happen if we all just surrender to BoB! If every corp did ally with them what would happen (we become a police state?)? Does the game end due to boredom? Personaly, I think CCCP should could solve this WHOLE drama and make more money with this idea. Create a NEW server that is CCP free (no gms devs accounts other then to work there) NO friends or family members either. This would keep the older players happy that were going to leave over this drama, CREATE a whole new market of new players wanted to start in this new server.
Diana deVos	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:50:00 - [2910] The more BoB forum warriors try to explain it away, the stupider they look. You're just going backwards between your arrogant, contemptous put down of your cheating and those that have called you and CCP on it.
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:51:00 - [2911] Originally by: Crux Australis I stopped reading at page 90-something. The highlights that I have worked out are: - bob cheats (ingame and out of game) - bob has preferential treatment (ingame and out of game) - ccp condones/supports bob cheating (ingame and out of game) - ccp is aligned in first person with bob (ingame and out of game) - the game is rigged - non bob aligned entities cannot win since the deck is stacked against them - at this point nothing that ccp does can restore the trust of a part of the player base whish is feeling betrayed/cheated/etc I am not going to debate anything here, but just to add my 0,02 isk: - If you feel that you are victims of a/many wrongdoing/s - If you think that ccp doesn't care and hence will try to cover up/unjustly ban/silence and then continue in its behaviour Then you have only one option left (I don't know if lawsuits are an option in this case and I'm not an e-lawyer (or rl lawyer)). This option is: hurt them where it matters, deny them income, cancel subscription. There is no point in paying who is making hell of your free, chill out time. Right? I for one would/will do it if/when the time comes. Am I biased because I am a bobbit? Probably, but hey. Have a nice day. Another Bob admits to cheating - I guess this is sort of refreshing really.
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:51:00 - [2912] Edited by: Toffles on 27/05/2007 12:52:57 Originally by: Avon My failure is clearly indcated by the number of people trying to shut me up / derail me. People are telling you to shut up because you are trolling and being intellectually dishonest in your arguments. Quote: If no-one knows if IA was emailed, and that is the correct way to report this, then why do we keep hearing that all the correct avenues were tried, but they were closed, and that is why the threadnaught was required? If you want parity, everyone to be treated equally, you don't do that by lowering yourself to the level of those you accuse. If, however, you want a drama-bomb... ... ^^ oh man, dot dot dot, I should use that more. As much as you don't want it to be this thread is at 100 pages because it looks like once again CCP and BoB have been caught in bed with each other, not because goons had to make a threadnought to get the matter dealt with.
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:53:00 - [2913] Originally by: The Dokter First if you don't trust CCP and want to quiet the game, do it, donÆt post in this thread anymore and just go too account details and quiet. Second; the way Goons handled this where was as always, way out of proportion. If you think something is wrong, petition it, if that isnÆt working petition it again (And no donÆt spam petition with all your alliance, like you have stated on your forums). If then again the petition is deleted or nothing happens. Mail ccp, mail the isd, mail the devs. And so on, when even then you problem isnÆt handled. Make one, I state this again, one forum post about it in general discussion and see what happens. Spamming in all the forums, is not the way to go and seems more you wanted to grief 100k players. Third: If something has been done by one dev, or one isd member that isnÆt oke. Let CCP have some time to fix it. I agree with a lot of people on this forum, that I would have loved to see a bit more information about the handling of the T20 problem and also about other problems. So yes, if there is something wrong, post the whole story one eve-o and say what you have done about it. Forth: People donÆt jump the gun so fast. I could be that there is nothing happened. And that this is all one big forum drama. An dev joining a corp to fix something,. Oke he should have mailed the corp in advance. An isd member being, kicked because he was bumping a dread, if it was my dread I would be rather upset. Kicking is going rather far but oke, maybe there where other things happening we donÆt know. So some info would be nice about it. And last, rigging the events, do we actually know what this rigging was about. Maybe it was about bloodraiders having to win from gallente otherwise the story line for the next patch wouldnÆt work? The ISD team are volunteers, so we donÆt know how much they know about certain stuff. my 2 cents The only thing this post proves is that you can't tell the difference between the words "Quit" and "Quiet." ******.
Junkie Beverage GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:01:00 - [2914] Edited by: Junkie Beverage on 27/05/2007 13:00:40 Edited by: Junkie Beverage on 27/05/2007 13:00:02 Originally by: kioraa high trees catch a lot of wind. I think the phrase you were looking for was actually "don't let the fox guard the henhouse." :page114snypa:
Junkie Beverage GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:04:00 - [2915] Edited by: Junkie Beverage on 27/05/2007 13:06:58 Originally by: Junkie Beverage Originally by: kioraa high trees catch a lot of wind. I think the phrase you were looking for was actually "don't let the fox guard the henhouse." eve is da henhouse in da qp
Nostic Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:05:00 - [2916] Edited by: Nostic on 27/05/2007 13:09:04 Originally by: kioraa First off, CCP personel will not need to join a corp in order to see what they're building in a POS to relay that info to "their corp mates". They will have first hand access to the game databases no doubt so those allegations are big big bull****. I don't know what position sharkbait holds, so I'm just throwing this out there, but it's possible that he DOESN'T have access to the database and didn't ask a coworker for the information because he knows it's unethical. This will likeley be easy for CCP to clear up for us, either he has a legitimate reason or he's fired. However, it's the other allegations that are most disturbing as it seems systematic from years of recruiting from the playerbase, and there are no valid excuses for such conduct, only promises that they'll gain some professionalism.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:08:00 - [2917] What if the Dev enters the POS to make some screenshots, of what DS1 is building there, fuel etc. Then e-mailed it out of game to his BoB buddies? Conspirathy theory ^^
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:08:00 - [2918] Originally by: Avon My failure is clearly indcated by the number of people trying to shut me up / derail me. There's a difference between derailing and rerailing. On that note I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace.
Pesadel0 Ordem dos Templarios	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:08:00 - [2919] Originally by: The Dokter First if you don't trust CCP and want to quiet the game, do it, donÆt post in this thread anymore and just go too account details and quiet. Second; the way Goons handled this where was as always, way out of proportion. If you think something is wrong, petition it, if that isnÆt working petition it again (And no donÆt spam petition with all your alliance, like you have stated on your forums). If then again the petition is deleted or nothing happens. Mail ccp, mail the isd, mail the devs. And so on, when even then you problem isnÆt handled. Make one, I state this again, one forum post about it in general discussion and see what happens. Spamming in all the forums, is not the way to go and seems more you wanted to grief 100k players. Third: If something has been done by one dev, or one isd member that isnÆt oke. Let CCP have some time to fix it. I agree with a lot of people on this forum, that I would have loved to see a bit more information about the handling of the T20 problem and also about other problems. So yes, if there is something wrong, post the whole story one eve-o and say what you have done about it. Forth: People donÆt jump the gun so fast. I could be that there is nothing happened. And that this is all one big forum drama. An dev joining a corp to fix something,. Oke he should have mailed the corp in advance. An isd member being, kicked because he was bumping a dread, if it was my dread I would be rather upset. Kicking is going rather far but oke, maybe there where other things happening we donÆt know. So some info would be nice about it. And last, rigging the events, do we actually know what this rigging was about. Maybe it was about bloodraiders having to win from gallente otherwise the story line for the next patch wouldnÆt work? The ISD team are volunteers, so we donÆt know how much they know about certain stuff. my 2 cents I think the goons petitioned ,but the petition was deleted?Then they made a forum post ,got locked .Then they spammed the forums. But the thing that pain's me more is the RP being rigged ,or the possibility of being rigged ,that for me is the biggest piece dishonesty . Now people in BoB leadership openly telling us that they contact with devs on MSN ,and saying in local that they only need to contact them true MSN to "fix" stuff,i as a gamer feel a little cheated but hey ...... I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.
AlphaMeridian Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:08:00 - [2920] Quote: How about as a way forward and peace of mind that there is a channel ingame created were a representative of each alliance can sit and be feriendly and civil and CCP can sit and WHEN there is an issue. It can be discussed and THEN relevent petitions raised as and when needed. I'd like to ++ this (ironically, posted by a BoB member). It's a possible solution - maybe not the best, but it's constructive. -Alpha
Finn Yr	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:10:00 - [2921] "Allegations...." Yeah, right. CCP has 2 problems, basically: 1) Not enough respect for their customers (who pay their salary, btw, hello??) 2) Lack of ethics, both ingame and out Of course DEVs should NOT be able to play the game. Does power corrupt? Is it hard to give up? Time to hit the presses and tell the world the truth about CCP. Oh, btw...has anyone noticed that the player base has STOPPED growing? Hmm...wonder why? Finn....quitting eve, for good
Ventosus x13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:11:00 - [2922] CCP employees should'nt be playing the game - period Let's get it out in the open. Who are devs, and close their accounts. Let the paying players play the game and the rest focus on developing the game. ............... I will win Eve
Xooja The Illucian Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:11:00 - [2923] Edited by: Xooja on 27/05/2007 13:11:05 Originally by: Stradiot i know you're trying to prove a point, but you're still ignoring evidence..it's one thing if you can solidly and concretely disprove the evidence provided..but it's another thing if you start talking about a non-issue that has nothing to do with collusion/corruption and all evidence surrounding those circumstances Originally by: Xooja This is not a non issue. I'll leave it up to others to work out why. Originally by: Stradiot it's a non-issue for this thread in particular arguing this as an issue is like arguing in favor of letting a corrupt politician off the hook just because the proof had to be forcefully brought to the public eye by putting posters up everywhere instead of directly approaching the government (which would be impossible if the government "stonewalled" you at every turn) Every turn was not taken. CCP internal affairs, which CCP set up after the t20 incident specifically to address the type of issue Darkstar 1 has but they were not contacted. Darkstar never gave IA a chance. I am not Pro BOB, i am Pro EVE. Sections of Goonfleet's actions risk damaging EVE, regardless of perceived good intention. There are multiple posts by Goon members in this thread that agree that this should have been restricted to just the Darkstar incident and that should have probably contacted IA. I would urge you to change the advisors that advised against contacting IA as there are better ways to achieve what you are trying to do, i.e. help CCP actively prevent any kind of cheating involving CCP staff.
Crux Australis Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:12:00 - [2924] Originally by: Sigmorhair Originally by: Crux Australis I stopped reading at page 90-something. The highlights that I have worked out are: - bob cheats (ingame and out of game) - bob has preferential treatment (ingame and out of game) - ccp condones/supports bob cheating (ingame and out of game) - ccp is aligned in first person with bob (ingame and out of game) - the game is rigged - non bob aligned entities cannot win since the deck is stacked against them - at this point nothing that ccp does can restore the trust of a part of the player base whish is feeling betrayed/cheated/etc I am not going to debate anything here, but just to add my 0,02 isk: - If you feel that you are victims of a/many wrongdoing/s - If you think that ccp doesn't care and hence will try to cover up/unjustly ban/silence and then continue in its behaviour Then you have only one option left (I don't know if lawsuits are an option in this case and I'm not an e-lawyer (or rl lawyer)). This option is: hurt them where it matters, deny them income, cancel subscription. There is no point in paying who is making hell of your free, chill out time. Right? I for one would/will do it if/when the time comes. Am I biased because I am a bobbit? Probably, but hey. Have a nice day. Another Bob admits to cheating - I guess this is sort of refreshing really. Hehe, not so clever attemp at trolling. I bolded the part that should interest you more. Originally by: Tuxford Sure play gallente and caldari if you like, just don't be upset when I waste your ass in a hurricane.
Junkie Beverage GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:13:00 - [2925] Originally by: Xooja I am not Pro BOB, i am Pro EVE. Sections of Goonfleet's actions risk damaging EVE, regardless of perceived good intention. much like your posting
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:14:00 - [2926] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Avon My failure is clearly indcated by the number of people trying to shut me up / derail me. There's a difference between derailing and rerailing. On that note I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace. I'm curious as to what possible reason GoonSwarm could have for wanting to make allegations look like facts.
Uruko North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:14:00 - [2927] Originally by: Finn Yr Finn....quitting eve, for good contract your stuff to me and everyone else leaving do the same pls.
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:16:00 - [2928] Originally by: Carl Bowmore Goon T2 Dramabomb hitts forum wrecking for OMGWTFBBQ dmg. Get a life and some perspective ppl. So its Goons fault that CCP is corrupt....odd logic. Shoot the messenger and hope the problem goes away. It worked last time around, just ban all those that dare to expose the cheating and bias that goes on. All GM and DEV's should stop playing on TQ. If if makes so little difference to alliances like BOB, then they wont complain will they There is absolutely no need for GM to play on TQ. It is ironic that one reason they claim is "to improve the playing experience" No wonder the Lag is never addressed with all the DEVs playing the game instead of working on it
Uagen Save our Souls	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:17:00 - [2929] My 10 pence, allowing ISD or employes of CCP to actualy play there products as members of the community will always put them in danger of this sort of thing, you know what to do CCP dont allow employes to play the game.... leave that to us. How are u ever going to regain the trust of your playing clients is beyond me, roumor after roumor is all ive heard playing this game and im just about sick of it... We are 505
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:17:00 - [2930] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley I'm curious as to what possible reason GoonSwarm could have for wanting to make allegations look like facts. Allegations like these you mean? Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Originally by: D'Artagnan Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it.
Xiang Zuma	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:17:00 - [2931] So many pages .. So many accusations .. The one constant in this thread is the BoB bits going on and on about how it is ok for them to have GMs on their MSN contacts. CCP, this is no way to run a game company. Just by appearances it reeks of favoritism. I see no practical purpose of any CCP employee having out of game contacts of any kind with the player base period. It totally defeats the in game lines of communication (you know - the ones with logs that CCP can track) - what good is your IA dept if there are no logs to check ? One doesn't even need hard evidence to launch a witch hunt when such conditions exist. CCP, if you are going to rig a game in favor of one side and charge money for said game - please place disclaimer on sign up page so people are not deceived about fair equal treatment under the eula ..
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:18:00 - [2932] Originally by: Effei Gloom Edited by: Effei Gloom on 27/05/2007 12:38:23 Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 27/05/2007 12:18:32 Originally by: D'Artagnan I am interested to know what would have happened if the situation had been reversed. Now lets see what would have happened if a ISD frigate had bumped a GS dread. GS pilot: leave local ISD pilot: No GS pilot writes a petition. GM reads the petition checks the logs the ISD pilot gets fired. The end result is a CCP employee gets fired for misconduct, as they are not meant to influence the game (bumping is influencing it) and if requested they are meant to leave local. Now GS pilot post thread on the forums stating how ISD were helping BoB and the community goes in to anti BoB overdrive. Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Does this effect the end result? Nope Does this effect the in game balance? Nope believe it or not the firing of the ISD member had zero effect on the outcome of the fight/war Maybe if CCP had spawned 100 titans to BoB you would have a case, but as it stands there is no case here just a load of what ifs. This looks fun, let me try: Coalition puts a bunch of pos's into reinforced. The next day they show up to finish them as they exit reinforced. However, a bug has struck and all the towers are exiting reinforced with full shields. The coalition files petitions frantically as the towers slowly do this same behavior one after the other. Finally a GM shows up and says he can't help you because his logs don't show anything. Tough luck. Now, BoB does the exact same thing. Sees the same bug happening, gets GM buddy to show up right away and the issue is fixed before every tower has exited reinforced. POS towers that are back to full shield instead of leaving reinforced mode, i remember this was petitioned during the ASCN <-> BOB war. Did anybody find out what happened to all the EDF poses which mysteriously went off line in that war?I mean,BoB suggested it was a spy/disgruntled EDF member but with all the stuff thats been going on I'm starting to wonder if it could have been done by some other means. Let us suppose a Dev in BoB says to Molle "I have a spy in EDF.He can offline POSes for us" but instead he abuses his powers to offline them. Would BoBs MSN contacts within CCP allow them to know about system caps for example? Do paying customers think it's right for other players to have a hotline to CCP and be able to instantly contact a GM/ISD and get immediate action while the rest of the paying customers have to use a petition system which,at best,is inconsistent and slow? Does any normal paying customer have the ability to have ISD members dismissed at the drop of a hat? I'm sure that many members of BoB are ignorant to most of the stuff that happens but someone in BoB knows.Maybe only a few know exactly how far this goes but they themselves and CCP employees MUST be held accontable for the grief and bad publicity they have brought to this game. CCP and BoB have a 'special' relationship-I accept that. But how 'special' is it?
ssorion Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:20:00 - [2933] Originally by: kioraa First off, CCP personel will not need to join a corp in order to see what they're building in a POS to relay that info to "their corp mates". They will have first hand access to the game databases no doubt so those allegations are big big bull****. Once again, different personel have different access levels. Only complete moron would give everyone direct database access. Usually its restricted to as few people as possible, making all 'support' personel use some kind of UI and 'tools'. Do you have the proof that questioned staff member have other ways of getting sensitive information, and that these ways are less audited than in-game corp joining ? In fact, joining corp in-game lets you evade the situation with 'just fixing the pos' excuse. Noone knows what exactly did he do, unless CCP logs each mouse move and each key pressed, which i seriously doubt. So technically, even if staff member have more-direct way of getting something, he have 2 variants. 1) Use some direct tool, which is logged and audited, and would let IA easily detect WHAT EXACTLY was looked up. 2) Use in-game mechanics, with only corp joining/leaving being logged, and dropping 'fixing the pos' excuse if busted. IA have no proof of anything happened. Being a staff member who wants to help his friends cause they are blobbing my msn, i'd go with 2nd variant, since neither i want to lose my job. P.S. I am NOT saying that Sharkbait did anything wrong. Neither i am accussing him in anything. This is nothing more than theoretical reasoning why would someone use in-game mechanics over direct access.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:20:00 - [2934] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 13:19:40 Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley I'm curious as to what possible reason GoonSwarm could have for wanting to make allegations look like facts. Allegations like these you mean? Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Originally by: D'Artagnan Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. No, allegations of wrongdoing. Talking to someone on msn is not wrongdoing. But please, answer the question.
Krigg	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:24:00 - [2935] Originally by: Druadan Why do CCP not understand that in an MMO you need to hire GMs who are not only good at the job, but have the moral rectitude to carry out the charge of that job without cheating? CCP, you screwed up last time with the t20 fiasco, because your senior staff weren't around to handle it. Try not to give us the same bull this time around, I don't think it washed with many people last time, and it certainly won't wash with me this time. Let some heads roll. Look at the situation. We have a BoB guy logging into his CCP GM char to get an ISD guy banned because he didn't follow an order. And order he shouldn't have followed because it was from a player. We have a CCP GM putting himself into a GoonSwarm corp as Director, to look at what a POS was building, and then trying to claim he was fixing a bug with the POS, when the POS was working fine. We have the Aurora roleplaying arcs being fixed to bring a result that CCP have already pre-ordained. What the hell are you doing? In 12 months time I'm going to graduate from university with a Software Engineering degree, and I'm fairly sure by that point I will have crossed CCP off my list of places I want to work. I would like to work with some professional staff, not this bunch of incompetents. Start culling your useless GMs, who, in their petition responses, routinely show they know very little about the workings of the game, and your corrupt GMs, and start applying some god damned standards to your recruitment process. Christ on a technicolour dreambike, guys, get a clue! I agree 100% with the sentiments echoed here. CCP you don't need your employee's playing on Tranquility. You have a perfectly good test server and a very responsive playerbase who feedback information to your developers all the time on just how the eveverse is going. You have a cancer within your company and its going to kill your game and confidence in any other games you have plans to produce. CCP's name is already being dragged through the mud on various gaming websites thanks to the feeble way you handled the last incident. Don't make it any worse.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:26:00 - [2936] Originally by: Xooja Every turn was not taken. CCP internal affairs, which CCP set up after the t20 incident specifically to address the type of issue Darkstar 1 has but they were not contacted. Darkstar never gave IA a chance. I am not Pro BOB, i am Pro EVE. Sections of Goonfleet's actions risk damaging EVE, regardless of perceived good intention. There are multiple posts by Goon members in this thread that agree that this should have been restricted to just the Darkstar incident and that should have probably contacted IA. I would urge you to change the advisors that advised against contacting IA as there are better ways to achieve what you are trying to do, i.e. help CCP actively prevent any kind of cheating involving CCP staff. Are you kidding? they did this themselves. I could not bring myself to tell people how great eve is anymore. Pro eve or not, this ** has to stop. I dont care if goon destroy eve in game. So be it. It will be sad but thats how things are. I do care if bob destroy eve and their constant cheating is rewarded.. if goon cheat, CCP will be there to ban, declare exploits, make public addresses, release hot fixes... but if bob cheat.... well... Arkonor may be one of the most experienced GMs and very good at his job, but he is still part of the old crew... and with that come s the same misstrust that most of CCP can expect from those who havent been here since beta... and those who have, but not with bob. And yet this venting is pointless. Because in another 20 or so pages one of the ISD heads will close this thread saying it is a flame fest and has no relevance anymore... then they will release tiny chunks of "information" and a press release trying to cover the asses of everyone still working for them (though im sure, they will shovel plenty of ** at those who have left, those with contracts that do not permit them to reply.) and then they will go back into turtle mode and wait it out. Maybe they will get some work on rev 2.0 done finally... then again bob is sieging systems so im sure they'll be far to busy for work.
Skrewface	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:27:00 - [2937] Do BoB have Sharkbaits MSN adress?Did they have T20s?Who else can they get instant contact to?Why do you use someones MSN to complain about in game stuff? You should use petition system like everyone else. MSN is for private 'friends' chat. Petition is for game related stuff. Go figure!
La Tortura Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:27:00 - [2938] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Talking to someone on msn is not wrongdoing. Yes it is, in that case. It is called "using insider". Back on topic. It almost looks like CCP managing staff is getting paid by SOE or some other competitor, as it they are doing their best to kill the good game lately. -- ignorance is bliss
Nazdarovie Minmatar Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:28:00 - [2939] Edited by: Nazdarovie on 27/05/2007 13:27:50 Jeez CCP isnt 114 pages enough time to come up with a coverup ? Don't troll please. -Hango Don't troll please. -Hango Don't use your signature to troll. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Redora Gallente Minmatar Ship Construction Services	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:28:00 - [2940] Edited by: Redora on 27/05/2007 13:28:16 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Orange Species The community is a disgrace to itself. Considering your name is on the chatlogs in part of this story, could you perhaps comment on that rather than simply voicing your discontentment with every single other eve player? You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. So does that mean because a close friend of mine is a police officer, I should get away with Murder? Capitalizing on your 'friendship' with CCP Devs is equivilant to this, like it or not. If the relationship you admittedly have with Devs held true outside EVE, society as we know it would self-destruct. And unless CCP gets their ***** act together and fixes this damn problem, EVE will self destruct as well. And then guess what? BoB, Goons, and NOBODY ELSE can "win" Eve. Having a special conduit doesn't mean you should make use of it, and even if you tried, I would expect the person in power to have the common sense, decency, and respect for the playerbase to say "You know, I really can't do that for you." Because it's not only good for HIM (he gets to keep his job) but good for US (non-Bobbitts) because we don't get a hot metal poker up the ass. This is ridiculous, and needs to be fixed ASAP. I, personally, am calling for Dev Heads to roll and for the ISD Reporter to get his post back. Anything less is bull. "Justice delayed is justice denied." So get it sorted CCP. --- Redora Quote:** # Logging off immediately after jumping into a warp disruptor bubble no longer grants invulnerability, much to the delight of gate campers everywhere.
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:29:00 - [2941] ban bob... seriously.. --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Kiyano Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:32:00 - [2942] People here can really be pathetic... ban bob? lol yeah like thats a good idea. If you start down that road it just allows for any significant amount of whining to ban anyone and everyone. Yup using that logic we may as well all stop playing. I really think people need to understand that there are things in this game that aren't fair simply because of human impact and as long as humans are the ones playing it, it'll never be honest, fair or decent. Get used to it I say.
Junkie Beverage GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:36:00 - [2943] Edited by: Junkie Beverage on 27/05/2007 13:36:26 Originally by: Kiyano People here can really be pathetic... ban bob? lol yeah like thats a good idea. If you start down that road it just allows for any significant amount of whining to ban anyone and everyone. Yup using that logic we may as well all stop playing. I really think people need to understand that there are things in this game that aren't fair simply because of human impact and as long as humans are the ones playing it, it'll never be honest, fair or decent. Get used to it I say. :page115synpa: booya! Two in a row
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:36:00 - [2944] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 13:19:40 Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley I'm curious as to what possible reason GoonSwarm could have for wanting to make allegations look like facts. Allegations like these you mean? Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Originally by: D'Artagnan Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. No, allegations of wrongdoing. Talking to someone on msn is not wrongdoing. But please, answer the question. you're wrong, it's highly implicit of wrongdoing
Creh Ester	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:37:00 - [2945] Edited by: Creh Ester on 27/05/2007 13:38:12 Having taken some time over the last 3 days to read much of this thread I can't say it has much changed my opinion of CCP. I've already lost my trust in them. I also see that a lot of things have already been said. Still I strongly feel I want to make a couple of points: What disturbs me mostly about this affair are BoB's responses in this thread. They very starkly, mercilessly expose the naked mindset of some BoB players. And it is the mindset of addiction to cheating. Addiction to cheating for years. They don't even realize that it is cheating anymore. Heck, they don't even realize how disastrous their own comments on this affair are for themselves. Instead of being concerned about the issue of cheating, which would be normal and like everyone else, they come down heavily on one side and generally try to deflect the issue and treat this as if it was a conflict with Goon. But this most certainly isn't about BoB. Or Goon. It's about CCP. And it's about those old privilaged players who have for years been able to use either CCP employment or close fraternization with CCP employees to secure various goodies for themselves, in the face of the rest of the player community. Disbanding BoB won't solve the problem. Those players will still be around. CCP must build some kind of watertight bulkheads between players and CCP. This is absolutely necessary if CCP wants to survive and wants EVE to survive. BoB members have repeatedly shamelessly confirmed very close ties to CCP. Thus this is a fact. Not an allegation, not a rumour. And here's the catch: If players have such connections to GMs, developers or any CCP employee, it's certain - absolutely 100% certain - that they will be regularly used for cheating! No doubt whatsoever! Please don't insult me with any crap about ethics of high standard, "Internal Affairs" or other nonsense. If you want to safe guard the game you must implement a system of firewalls between players and game company employees. CCP have done nothing of the sort. No not at all. They are one happy bunch of cavorting chums. " - What a great game we have built for ourselves to play!". "BTW, how is that new 'heat' game mechanics against blobs to better deal with Goon swarms coming along?".
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:40:00 - [2946] Originally by: Kiyano People here can really be pathetic... ban bob? lol yeah like thats a good idea. If you start down that road it just allows for any significant amount of whining to ban anyone and everyone. Yup using that logic we may as well all stop playing. I really think people need to understand that there are things in this game that aren't fair simply because of human impact and as long as humans are the ones playing it, it'll never be honest, fair or decent. Get used to it I say. you might not realize it, but you're implicitly stating that you don't mind if democratic elections are rigged in one candidate's favor..ya know, since democracy is just a political system being run by humans..and i'm gonna take a wild guess that you were brought up in western society..which makes this even more pathetic
Mordrake MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:40:00 - [2947] Originally by: Ovale Yawn... 99.9% of EVE accounts don't care about this. Including me. ORLY... wasn't aware 99.9% of the playerbase were BOB puppets already ; \ "Arte et Marte"
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:42:00 - [2948] Originally by: Kiyano People here can really be pathetic... ban bob? lol yeah like thats a good idea. If you start down that road it just allows for any significant amount of whining to ban anyone and everyone. Get used to it I say.. Get used to it.... thats a great plan. To be honest once BoD are gone I think a large portion of eve will be content to leave of their own accord. Too many good players are quitting over this and more simply want to see bod die before they follow them out the door.
Ravoc Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:45:00 - [2949] BoB should be dissolved and stripped from all its resources. There have been too many BoB related corruptive issues now. It has to stop or it will ruin the game.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:46:00 - [2950] Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate T20 hands out T2 BPOs to his friends. Result: CCP do their best to cover it up, and when it finally gets out, he recieves a slap on the wrist. The way internal matters have been handled in CCP have been a farce so far, and if they are surprised they are the only company with regular scandals, it only takes a few seconds to find out why. Can not agree more with you They say we are against coruption, but they act exatly opposite
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:47:00 - [2951] Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 13:46:31 Originally by: Richard Johannson Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate T20 hands out T2 BPOs to his friends. Result: CCP do their best to cover it up, and when it finally gets out, he recieves a slap on the wrist. The way internal matters have been handled in CCP have been a farce so far, and if they are surprised they are the only company with regular scandals, it only takes a few seconds to find out why. Can not agree more with you They say we are against coruption, but they act exatly opposite they're like the communist party of china
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:50:00 - [2952] Edited by: MissileRus on 27/05/2007 13:49:32 Originally by: Kiyano People here can really be pathetic... ban bob? lol yeah like thats a good idea. If you start down that road it just allows for any significant amount of whining to ban anyone and everyone. Yup using that logic we may as well all stop playing. I really think people need to understand that there are things in this game that aren't fair simply because of human impact and as long as humans are the ones playing it, it'll never be honest, fair or decent. Get used to it I say. well theres way to mutch relations between "bob" and "GMs/Devs" for it to be healthy for the game imo.. "guilds" do get banned all over in the virtual worlds of other games because their "connected" with GMs or Developers in someway thats drawing attention and/or giving them advantages. in eve reputation is one of the larger advantages imo, and bob sure gets tons when GMs spawn items for them, and join their corps... i dont hate them, its just way to wierd to have so many "incidents".. they should dispand and redo their alliance from scratch, get rid of all that "GM smell" tbh edit: i dont know how the GMs smell but you get it i hope.. lol! --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
manimani Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:52:00 - [2953] Edited by: manimani on 27/05/2007 13:52:00 Originally by: Stradiot Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 13:46:31 Originally by: Richard Johannson Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate T20 hands out T2 BPOs to his friends. Result: CCP do their best to cover it up, and when it finally gets out, he recieves a slap on the wrist. The way internal matters have been handled in CCP have been a farce so far, and if they are surprised they are the only company with regular scandals, it only takes a few seconds to find out why. Can not agree more with you They say we are against coruption, but they act exatly opposite they're like the communist party of china Well, at least the Chinese are changing, they even have death penalties for corrupted officials..... CCP just gives them a slap on the wrist
Uruko North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:59:00 - [2954] Pls goons, leave the game allready!
Chepe Nolon Core Domination Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:59:00 - [2955] My post will drown in all the mess anyway. But I'll add a post to this thread to voice my concern over recent news and conspiracy theories adding to the length of the thread. CCP is not acting like an established company of a certain size. Having a such a large customer base, involving over 100k paying users they really have to be more professional in their contact with the communities. Getting involved in relations with some of the factions is IMHO a very bad move. Like many others here on eve, I've worked several years hosting server environments for medium sized corporations. I know that just altering and gaining access to certain parts of the customers systems without letting them know first is the same as a lawsuit. There are many ways of informing the customers. Contracts, Request for changes, meetings etc. Deleting incoming request for informations is NOT a way. I would compare this to hosting two rival corporations, and using your administrative accounts to gain information on one of them for the other to use. Afaik, if some of the playerbase organized and paid for a team of lawyers, ccp could have a less free way to change (enter, administer, gain info from, patch etc) than they have today. They could even end up having to pay back a lot of their customers when they do a less well-thought action. Chepe Nolon -- My notes about agent missions.
Aramark Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:01:00 - [2956] Originally by: Benzo Diazepine Edited by: Benzo Diazepine on 27/05/2007 04:05:13 Edited by: Benzo Diazepine on 27/05/2007 04:04:07 Originally by: Iwone I would love to ask CCP ppl to tell us how many more times we need to "trust" them. You ppl are ruining your own game. the question remains: WHY CAN BOB SUMMON SOMEONE TO FIRE ISD AT WILL? WHY IS CCP BEHAVING LIKE THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT?? CENSORSHIP IS NO WAY TO DEAL WITH PROBLEMS. what is your beef about the american government? the US has help more countries around the world more than anyother country in the world. given hundreds of billions in money in loans around the world. and not one has been returned, our market is the best that it has ever been in the history of the planet. USA is the most free out spoken non cersorship place on the planet as well. and i can only assume you are talking about the Iraq war, where our troops would leave if the Iraq government want us to, do you know what they said, cus this was brought up just a couple days ago? there Government said STAY we need you!! and if you say CCP is acting like USA government that is a lie aswell. if this was a USA there would be so many meetings and questions be asked for weeks if not months. just like the firing of the 8 US attornies. when clintion came to office he fired all of them. and the USA courts are *****ing about just 8.. so there you go. not knowing what you are talking about. on the topic at head it is SIMPLY if only have the OP says is true, Bob have cheated in this game alot. T20=techtwo bpos=alot of isk, broken complexs that were found in bob space (and a few others) making BILLIONS of isk. GM's and DEV's on personal chat channels. CCP and Bob have now been proven to be working together to make Bob the strongest allinace in the game. and when Bob says "fight in game not forums." they are really stupid, THATS WHERE YOU CHEAT. you have your GM buddies cap the system, rig t2 bpos lottery, you crash the node. all these are in the open and at the end of the day CCP will "find little" to nothing wrong about this. t20 would of been fired and now sharkbait, but nothing will come of it, that is another fact. Bob you ask for people to fight you in game.. when you stop cheating and learn to play fair you will get that. but you have been cheating for so long i don't think you know how to play fair at all --------------------------------------------------- "Roses are red, Violets are blue, I'm a developer, are you one too?"
Akrinos LuCont Gallente Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:01:00 - [2957] Edited by: Akrinos LuCont on 27/05/2007 14:00:56 1. I looked upto BoB at the beginning of game. 2. i respect CCPs laws/aknowledgement of illigal ISK sales. 3. and to think i wanted togo to Fanfest 07! (to meet a bunch of cheaters?- it would have gotten ugly) no thanks!
Al Zheimer	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:01:00 - [2958] Originally by: XoojEvery turn was not taken. CCP internal affairs was not contacted. [/quote you mean the very same person that called another person a "hacker" in a official manner despite the person being called "hacker" had never been judged by a court of law for hacking. that is called defamation of character and slander by CCP as the person calling him that posted that on the official website of CCP's computergame eve-online. is that the person you trust implicitly to not try and pull a cover over your eyes? the very same person that in this thread said that said Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. and all the time CCP and Arkanon is banning people left and right to pull that cover over all your eyes. what CCP does and what CCP says are 2 different things.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:02:00 - [2959] Originally by: Creh Ester And here's the catch: If players have such connections to GMs, developers or any CCP employee, it's certain - absolutely 100% certain - that they will be regularly used for cheating! No doubt whatsoever! Please don't insult me with any crap about ethics of high standard, "Internal Affairs" or other nonsense. If you want to safe guard the game you must implement a system of firewalls between players and game company employees. CCP have done nothing of the sort. So, let's just ban anyone who has any CCP employee or anyone affiliated with CCP on their MSN contact list, because they are all automatically cheats? You know what, go for it. And, let's also make a list of all the people who got banned. Sure some BoB may get banned, and that would be a shame, but if you imagine that only BoB names would be on that list then you are clearly deluded. Some of the biggest names in Eve, and the leaders of more than one alliance would be banned. Still, it is for the best, right? Yeah, do it. I'll still be here. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:03:00 - [2960] I love how there are 115 pages of people trying to voice an opinion interspersed with goon swarm and noob corp alts saying "disband bob and split up all their stuff". You guys are the only true winners I will ever meet. I love you. Please let me be your friend.
Maj Woodcock Minmatar United Space Aillance USA	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:05:00 - [2961] Edited by: Maj Woodcock on 27/05/2007 14:08:35 Edited by: Maj Woodcock on 27/05/2007 14:06:27 Edited by: Maj Woodcock on 27/05/2007 14:05:09 Originally by: Creh Ester Edited by: Creh Ester on 27/05/2007 13:38:12 Having taken some time over the last 3 days to read much of this thread I can't say it has much changed my opinion of CCP. [bold]I've already lost my trust in them. [/bold]...They don't even realize that it is cheating anymore. ... [bold] But this most certainly isn't about BoB. Or Goon. It's about CCP. And it's about those old privilaged players who have for years been able to use either CCP employment or close fraternization with CCP employees to secure various goodies for themselves, in the face of the rest of the player community. Disbanding BoB won't solve the problem. Those players will still be around. CCP must build some kind of watertight bulkheads between players and CCP. This is absolutely necessary if CCP wants to survive and wants EVE to survive. BoB members have repeatedly shamelessly confirmed very close ties to CCP. Thus this is a fact. Not an allegation, not a rumour.[/bold] And here's the catch: If players have such connections to GMs, developers or any CCP employee, it's certain - absolutely 100% certain - that they will be regularly used for cheating! No doubt whatsoever! Please don't insult me with any crap about ethics of high standard, "Internal Affairs" or other nonsense. If you want to safe guard the game you must implement a system of firewalls between players and game company employees. CCP have done nothing of the sort. No not at all. They are one happy bunch of cavorting chums. " - What a great game we have built for ourselves to play!". "BTW, how is that new 'heat' game mechanics against blobs to better deal with Goon swarms coming along?". Man I can't with you agree more. You hit it right on the head!! Amazing they haven't shut this thread down by saying ôno rules were broke, please move onö. We need to get back to the game we made for ourselves. Thanks for your financial backing!! Please take a look at my tag. Food for though CCP! PROMISES MADE > PROMISES KEPT *SO SAY WE ALL*
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:07:00 - [2962] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 14:06:20 Originally by: Stradiot you're wrong, it's highly implicit of wrongdoing When something is implied, which is usually subjectively, it does not make it a fact.
Mordrake MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:13:00 - [2963] Ok here is a proposal: 1: All CCP staff delete characters presently in player run Alliances and inactivate all accounts with characters not in Player Run Alliances until no longer employed by CCP. 2: Aurora sets up CCP run Alliances for all the major NPC enteties/Factions in game. All staff are kept abreast of these Factions present Modivations and Mindset along with overview of presently running Arcs. 3: CCP/Aurora Staff can freely create characters in any CCP run Alliance with a set ammount of skillpoints (say 30Mil) and these characters do not train new skills. 4: When Staff are playing EVE they will act according to what the Faction the character presently being played belongs to. 5: Equipment needed for these characters will be drawn from Alliance hangers and will be closely monitered and resupplied by members of CCP's Internal Affairs Staff. "Arte et Marte"
Proxay Gallente Fallen Angel's Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:15:00 - [2964] Originally by: Wylker I love how there are 115 pages of people trying to voice an opinion interspersed with goon swarm and noob corp alts saying "disband bob and split up all their stuff". You guys are the only true winners I will ever meet. I love you. Please let me be your friend. STOP CHEATING FFS. Fallen Angel's Recruitment
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:16:00 - [2965] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Creh Ester And here's the catch: If players have such connections to GMs, developers or any CCP employee, it's certain - absolutely 100% certain - that they will be regularly used for cheating! No doubt whatsoever! Please don't insult me with any crap about ethics of high standard, "Internal Affairs" or other nonsense. If you want to safe guard the game you must implement a system of firewalls between players and game company employees. CCP have done nothing of the sort. So, let's just ban anyone who has any CCP employee or anyone affiliated with CCP on their MSN contact list, because they are all automatically cheats? You know what, go for it. And, let's also make a list of all the people who got banned. Sure some BoB may get banned, and that would be a shame, but if you imagine that only BoB names would be on that list then you are clearly deluded. Some of the biggest names in Eve, and the leaders of more than one alliance would be banned. Still, it is for the best, right? Yeah, do it. I'll still be here. tbh WHY do they have CCP staff on their contact lists? thats completely messed up.. --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Kam SingDu'k Singularity. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:17:00 - [2966] Originally by: Wylker I love how there are 115 pages of people trying to voice an opinion interspersed with goon swarm and noob corp alts saying "disband bob and split up all their stuff". You guys are the only true winners I will ever meet. I love you. Please let me be your friend. does this guy ever post something constructive? Every post I have seen him make has been flaming. It isn't actually goonswarms opinion we are following it is public opinion. The reason why goonswarm seems to correlate with the majority of eve players MIGHT be because that opinion is wellfound?
Rod Steel	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:21:00 - [2967] Edited by: Rod Steel on 27/05/2007 14:20:36 The ironic/sad part about all this is that in the face of all this 'corruption' on CCP's and/or their employees part, they still have the gall to insist all we paying customers take careful note of, and follow the EULA....kind of moot now, isn't it??
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:22:00 - [2968] CCP has to deal with this situation decisively. Problems like this need to be gassed before they can be a burden. Concentration on the issue is a must. Hopefully CCP will implement some sort of final solution to deal with the situation.
Rysio Joint Espionage and Defence Industries	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:23:00 - [2969] im disgusted and shocked at ccp. thats all i can say.
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:24:00 - [2970] Originally by: Breaky Rules CCP has to deal with this situation decisively. Problems like this need to be gassed before they can be a burden. Concentration on the issue is a must. Hopefully CCP will implement some sort of final solution to deal with the situation. Not at all funny. I hope you get permabanned. --- Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:24:00 - [2971] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 14:06:20 Originally by: Stradiot you're wrong, it's highly implicit of wrongdoing When something is implied, which is usually subjectively, it does not make it a fact. which is why it's going to be investigated by arkanon p.s. post with your main you spineless coward, if you have anything worth saying, it's worth saying with your main
Wheelchair Demagogue	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:24:00 - [2972] Just read this guys, it tells the whole story: Events that shocked EVE community after Kugutsmen got busted are the main of ever happened on the backstage in the world of EVE since its creation. - Guilty? - Oh yeah, he is. But he is the first and the last., - said CCP. Well, thats a typical form of sacrifice to stay untoched by potatoes and eggs that can be thrown at the big man. We all have people that we like, and some that we hate or ignore. So, don't you want to help your beloved in any way? So, there some people that have enpugh power to make some dreams come true. In EVE they be GMs and Devs. We will call them super-pilots in this story. They can help theirselves, by the way, too. But they have to operate "the masquerade" ( o/ White Wolf) so the Kugutsmen's fate would not repeat. T20 wasnt punished for his deeds but for his fail to remain stealthy. One director loved to say phrase "I fire you not because you got drunk but beacause you got caught" before firing an employee that came to work drunk. So, stages of big love and most beloved. In the beginning of the EVE there were not so many strong corporations and time was needed for some corporations and pilots to fade others. And the super-pilots was in need of a corporation that could be their hands in EVE. That existed and were famous as skilled and strong. Like legendary m0o Corp or unnoficial Stain Alliance. Do you remember antic Greek myths? The one where gods argued which mortal is the best? Well, you got it right here. But the war needs to be supported materially. Its hard to imagine a PvP pilot sitting on his barge and chocking on veldspar so he could make himself a battleship. "Pfft", you will say, "you can get 'nuf money to buy a bs just killing npc in zeroes for 12 hours!". Yes, you can. Nowadays. But in 2003 year the best bounty you could find in zeroes was... 50k isk! This isn't too much, i'll say you. The favourite Apocalypse' price was floating around 125m isk and the BPC's one was 9m isk. But m0o had no problems with stuff. They were not hunting or mining. Their work was to shoot people. And the supplies were made by powerfull industrial corporation Asgard Industries, that had all the ship BPOs within the first month of EVE running official. Far before the Hadeyan Drive Yards. And the CEO of this corp was just an Iceland guy named Mjolnir. m0o was and still is a legendary corporation, famous for their's actions like mass genocide of CONCORD and other fun :) They were banned for such "exploits". But who said that they were removed from the game? Super-pilots understood that these guys saw EVE's world from the different position. Hell yeah, they even did that CPP wasnt thinking about when they were creating the game. But m0o could not tackle a whole alliance, if there would be one. So a triad was made - m0o/RUS/Sinister, that could not be defeated by any force in known EVE. Except the Stain Alliance... That was a "favourite" too, but for some other big men... So, what was the Stain Alliance? It was a pack of corportions that controlled three regions: Stain and two other regions, that were named with letters and digitals (they are known now as Estoria and Paragon Soul). And there were no lots of ways to get from one region to another. Everyone had to go through DSS-EZ system, that were blobbed for 23 hours in a day. The strongest of the alliance were MASS, The Collective, Omega Corp, Seraphin Technologies, Everlasting Vendetta and some others. Heh, The Collective was 95% icelandic corporation and one of the first in SA (Stain Alliance). The Hand of this alliance wasnt too silent and stealthy. They even killed some Jovian admiral that dropped an item called Miner V "Nibelung". Yes, V is for 5. FIVE. He was a main figure in the event that was planned for explaining of how this item got into EVE. But admiral got lost 50 jumps away from his target system and was ganked. Noob :P
Hypatia Iola Caldari Central Defiance Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:24:00 - [2973] alright i'm late arriving to this party, i've scanned te thread but the "response" doesn't really say wtf is going on, anyone willing to enlighten me? and what's this other allegation? tyvm I represent only my own views, they just happen to be the right ones.
Witty Moniker Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:25:00 - [2974] Edited by: Witty Moniker on 27/05/2007 14:24:27 Originally by: Haloskeeter As has been said by myself before, they can play all they damn well please. When they start helping out their buddies, it becomes a problem. As shown with the many BoB scandals as of late, it doesn't work. CCP employees out of everyone should respect their game and not **** it up for everyone except a select group. You don't know that. You know nothing about CCP or BoB, and that includes how either of them work. So why don't you chill with the slander, defamatory, random rumors and trashtalk you're littering everything with. So many BoB scandels. You are linking trash that happened in the past to us, even though it has been stated by ALL parties, that we were not involved, nor had any knowledge about what was going on. Everything has been removed, and we moved on. It's time for you to do the same. You keep hammering the same nail over and over. Get over it. Before you go post crap and spam the entire forum with your BS, you might want to have another look at your so called evidence, or anything at all to back up these accusations. You have nothing on us, you have nothing on CCP, in fact, you don't even own your space anymore. So be quiet now.
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:25:00 - [2975] Originally by: manimani Edited by: manimani on 27/05/2007 13:52:00 Originally by: Stradiot Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 13:46:31 Originally by: Richard Johannson Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate T20 hands out T2 BPOs to his friends. Result: CCP do their best to cover it up, and when it finally gets out, he recieves a slap on the wrist. The way internal matters have been handled in CCP have been a farce so far, and if they are surprised they are the only company with regular scandals, it only takes a few seconds to find out why. Can not agree more with you They say we are against coruption, but they act exatly opposite they're like the communist party of china Well, at least the Chinese are changing, they even have death penalties for corrupted officials..... CCP just gives them a slap on the wrist So, what your saying is, T20 should of received the death penalty? Ironic seeing as goons always use the excuse of "you take the game to seriously" to their enemies
Flashmob 21	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:25:00 - [2976] Are you sure that it was the only such item in EVE? Think twice. Everyone that was accepted into SA received a gift - fully fitted battleship. Well, that lasere was soon traded-in for Miner II BPC. A very, very worthy item. I bet noone knew about Techell corporation before they received a Miner II BPO for their "great sucess in production and science sphere". Online database of items that Taggart Transdimensional had looks even more strange. There were info's of ALL devices, through to tech level 5 (five) ones. They did a long way to kill the Jovian guy too. From their home region Venal to Stain, to assist MASS in the "event". But the superiors of this alliance soon abandoned SA, so they could focus on other, more interest people. Sinister and RUS soon joined the CA (Curse Alliance). And their struggle with SA got some new fuel to burn. Some even forgot about the earlier deeds, done by the super-pilots. m0o was flying around with their old friends for some time and then flew to Querious and future Delve and Period Basis regions. Now thats familiar, isnt it? There lived the "flower children" - hippies of EVE named Coalition of Free Stars. Deafeated by 30 pilots, alliance consisted of 1500 members, had to give up their terrytory. m0o sold the regions back for 4 billion isk and went into cryogenic sleep for unknown time. Meanwhile corporations named Reikoku and Evolution (Evol was the main corp in Fountain Alliance, along with BIG and Xanadu) became very powerful, really fast. Well, they had some smart guys at the wheel from m0o, Finite Horizon and CoW. Two of them were second and third m0o's labels. So, why m0o was closed? "Personal motives of their leader". Then, part of m0o quits it for other corporation that lives in Fountain. Thats 40 jumps from m0o's home systems that were located in south. So, what for? This looks very strange. If you dont know future. Time - the day before THE patch. It will add trans-regional "highways" and captureable outposts (three for every region). In the very southern part of Fountain where highway will be opened three hundred pilots are waiting for something. Maybe for another Jovian admiral? Nope. Shortly after the server was brought online the spot divides and captures all the three regions, under the claim of Reikoku and Fountain Alliance. CFS tried to resist, but they were dealt with swiftly. So they had to mine under 50% refining tax. Thats when BoB started to hoard money. Soone, Evolutions quits FA to make a new alliance with Reikoku. Band of Brothers be its name. Fully official, baby yeah! CFS splits into corporations that create two new alliances, Firmus Ixion and Xelas. They still serve their master, BoB. Now the empire had to raise their finances. Delve was ideal for it. It had NPC and plexes (bugged as we know now) and all the deep zeroes minerals like Ark, Merc and moons fully stocked with resources. Just 5 jumps between these money bags. Say hello to Delve region. Why not Esoteria or Detorid? Well, maybe someone didnt like their names or something? Here comes ISS and MC. ISS (amen) was a hydra with a very sharp eyes and sensible ears that could support empire with info of whats going on in every region, every outpost and plex. Also, ISS maintainined web of jump POSes that can take BoB fleet of any size to any end of the galaxy. Now thats an alliance that can satisfy a super-pilot! Meanwhile, war raged on south-east. After the end of CA, RUS Team lagalized its existance as Red Alliance. Aracane Technologies, Black Omega Security, Black Reign, Shinra and Supremacy created an alliance named The Five [5]. They were believed to be the future second to BoB force. Well, they were believed. XETIC was done with by The Five, fast enough to boast. Some XETIC survivors created Ascendant Frontier [ASCN] alliance.
Ozzie Asrail Exploited	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:26:00 - [2977] Edited by: Ozzie Asrail on 27/05/2007 14:24:45 Originally by: MissileRus tbh WHY do they have CCP staff on their contact lists? thats completely messed up.. Just because you don't have any friends and a blank msn contact list doesn't mean everyone is like that -----
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:26:00 - [2978] Originally by: Breaky Rules CCP has to deal with this situation decisively. Problems like this need to be gassed before they can be a burden. Concentration on the issue is a must. Hopefully CCP will implement some sort of final solution to deal with the situation. This is quite clever, actually. I felt a smile tug at my lips. But you're still a bastard.
Flashmob 21	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:26:00 - [2979] The Five was supposed be the enemies for BoB in future. But. Their greed was the spark that started the war with RA. It was the war of great dedication, fore some. But other saw the faded side as one-way lagfest and chained POS shutdowns. I do not believe in coinsedences or server's priorities in processing of data. The Five lost the war anyway, and ATUK (that believed to be the main losers) rename as Destructive Inluence and goes to BoB. Also, the Lotka Volterra alliance was formed out of ruins. Lotka and Volterra are second names of scientists that found out predator bacteries' reproducing mechanics. Soon after they returned to their homewolrd they set up a coalition with Veritas Immortalis (former SA) and some forceless alliances like KOS (trash from SA, mostly Omist MASS' slaves), RISE (remains of former FA that simply died without Evolution) and so on. The Story repeats - war with REDs including old and proved lagfests, pos shutdowns and GMs all over the battlefield. Lets wave them. So, who is the puppetmaster? SirMolle? Hah, he is a very odious figure, famous for its alomost Gebbels speeches. But he wasnt a good PvP pilot, neither he was a good leader. HE is the puppet. Strategy is still made by smart boys from m0o like DigitalCommunist, TWD, Stavros and some others. They are trusted to make an empire that must crush even new formed anti-bob coalition (we all know "who is who" here).
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:26:00 - [2980] Originally by: Uruko Pls goons, leave the game allready! It's pretty damning of the moderation of these boards that goonfleet posts get edited and deleted but this crap is fine.
benzss Templar Securities and Holdings Lupus Caerulus	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:27:00 - [2981] Originally by: Hypatia Iola alright i'm late arriving to this party, i've scanned te thread but the "response" doesn't really say wtf is going on, anyone willing to enlighten me? and what's this other allegation? tyvm search for 'open letter eve' in google...i think that's what you need.
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:27:00 - [2982] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: manimani Edited by: manimani on 27/05/2007 13:52:00 Originally by: Stradiot Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 13:46:31 Originally by: Richard Johannson Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate T20 hands out T2 BPOs to his friends. Result: CCP do their best to cover it up, and when it finally gets out, he recieves a slap on the wrist. The way internal matters have been handled in CCP have been a farce so far, and if they are surprised they are the only company with regular scandals, it only takes a few seconds to find out why. Can not agree more with you They say we are against coruption, but they act exatly opposite they're like the communist party of china Well, at least the Chinese are changing, they even have death penalties for corrupted officials..... CCP just gives them a slap on the wrist So, what your saying is, T20 should of received the death penalty? Ironic seeing as goons always use the excuse of "you take the game to seriously" to their enemies No but being fired would have been good. Like pretty much every other company that runs games like this out there.
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:28:00 - [2983] Originally by: Rod Steel Edited by: Rod Steel on 27/05/2007 14:20:36 The ironic/sad part about all this is that in the face of all this 'corruption' on CCP's and/or their employees part, they still have the gall to insist all we paying customers take careful note of, and follow the EULA....kind of moot now, isn't it?? Most top-end alliances - especially those with multiple supercapitals - tend to ignore certain parts of the EULA & TOS anyway; namely the "account sharing is forbidden" part. But that's a whole different kettle of fish: this thread's about the open letter to CCP, and the pending response. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:28:00 - [2984] Originally by: MissileRus Originally by: Avon Originally by: Creh Ester And here's the catch: If players have such connections to GMs, developers or any CCP employee, it's certain - absolutely 100% certain - that they will be regularly used for cheating! No doubt whatsoever! Please don't insult me with any crap about ethics of high standard, "Internal Affairs" or other nonsense. If you want to safe guard the game you must implement a system of firewalls between players and game company employees. CCP have done nothing of the sort. So, let's just ban anyone who has any CCP employee or anyone affiliated with CCP on their MSN contact list, because they are all automatically cheats? You know what, go for it. And, let's also make a list of all the people who got banned. Sure some BoB may get banned, and that would be a shame, but if you imagine that only BoB names would be on that list then you are clearly deluded. Some of the biggest names in Eve, and the leaders of more than one alliance would be banned. Still, it is for the best, right? Yeah, do it. I'll still be here. tbh WHY do they have CCP staff on their contact lists? thats completely messed up.. As some of your fellow goon alts have posted, have you not read the thread? The answer to why they have CCP staff on their contact lists is in the thread
Hypatia Iola Caldari Central Defiance Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:29:00 - [2985] holy ****! hot topix much? c;mon i'd still like an explanation if i can get it I represent only my own views, they just happen to be the right ones.
Cassiuss Minmatar STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:29:00 - [2986] This just proves how intense this game is. A dev(s) willing to risk his RL income/job/name for some virtual rewards is laughable. You know your too caught up in a game when. Anyways, I am hoping CCP deal with this behaviour harshly, this **** needs to be nipped in the bud. Its gone on far to long. All people want in game the invest in is fairness and some fun. Cheating ruins both. Cassiuss, STK-S Recruitment Officer
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:30:00 - [2987] Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 14:06:20 Originally by: Stradiot you're wrong, it's highly implicit of wrongdoing When something is implied, which is usually subjectively, it does not make it a fact. which is why it's going to be investigated by arkanon p.s. post with your main you spineless coward, if you have anything worth saying, it's worth saying with your main So you're saying this thread is not needed then. Arkanon was going to investigate it before, but for some reason GoonSwarm didn't find the lack of drama satisfying.
Trishan Minmatar Green Men Incorporated The Threshold	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:31:00 - [2988] Originally by: D'Artagnan Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Does this effect the end result? Nope Does this effect the in game balance? Nope believe it or not the firing of the ISD member had zero effect on the outcome of the fight/war That is NOT a game I want to play. In fact at this point I've read enough rubbish in this thread that the open letter issues have been moved to the background. Too many coincidences involving a certain alliance (I don't care what it's name is) and the devs. Either I get convinced these kind of situations won't happen (and why they can't) or I'll unfortunately leave.
Minaras Laentic	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:32:00 - [2989] Im not taking sides here, just stating a couple opinions and questions , so no offence intended to anyone. Eve is the only online mmorpg where developers and similar are allowed to have any affiliation with the game outside work. Simply because it creates an aura of mistrust in the game. Im not saying that anyone is cheating here, as i dont know all the facts. But u must be able to see the mistrust knowing dev's will enevitably create? Especially with previous cases of "unautherized help". I wouldnt wanna make a GREAT game and then not be allowed to play it myself, so i can see it from the dev's point of view. But im not sure i could resist the temptation of helping out my friends just a little if i where in that position and with the amount of dev's involved, i just cant believe that NONE at all have used their position to some degree. But the case where a dev joined as director and "scouted" the corp is an indicator that something fishy is going on, to what degree i have no idea, and its just sad that a few guys are ruining it for many(a few meaning the actual people that made bpo's and "scouted", not by any means all of bob/all dev's)
Creh Ester	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:32:00 - [2990] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Creh Ester And here's the catch: If players have such connections to GMs, developers or any CCP employee, it's certain - absolutely 100% certain - that they will be regularly used for cheating! No doubt whatsoever! Please don't insult me with any crap about ethics of high standard, "Internal Affairs" or other nonsense. If you want to safe guard the game you must implement a system of firewalls between players and game company employees. CCP have done nothing of the sort. So, let's just ban anyone who has any CCP employee or anyone affiliated with CCP on their MSN contact list, because they are all automatically cheats? You know what, go for it. And, let's also make a list of all the people who got banned. Sure some BoB may get banned, and that would be a shame, but if you imagine that only BoB names would be on that list then you are clearly deluded. Some of the biggest names in Eve, and the leaders of more than one alliance would be banned. Still, it is for the best, right? Yeah, do it. I'll still be here. -ROTFL! One: I did most certainly point out that this is not at all about BoB! Where in your quote do you see me even mention BoB? Two: Where do I call for widespread banning? I'm sure you're used to be able to ban all wistle blowers, just like you're used to be able to rationalize away why the real culprits shouldn't be punished, but I didn't call for any banning at all. Three: You again so emphatically demonstrate the BoB 'addiction to cheating' -mindset that I preliminary mentioned. You don't even take time to consider and understand the post you responded to. Nope, Just a spinal column reaction to defend cheating practices.
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:33:00 - [2991] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: MissileRus Originally by: Avon Originally by: Creh Ester And here's the catch: If players have such connections to GMs, developers or any CCP employee, it's certain - absolutely 100% certain - that they will be regularly used for cheating! No doubt whatsoever! Please don't insult me with any crap about ethics of high standard, "Internal Affairs" or other nonsense. If you want to safe guard the game you must implement a system of firewalls between players and game company employees. CCP have done nothing of the sort. So, let's just ban anyone who has any CCP employee or anyone affiliated with CCP on their MSN contact list, because they are all automatically cheats? You know what, go for it. And, let's also make a list of all the people who got banned. Sure some BoB may get banned, and that would be a shame, but if you imagine that only BoB names would be on that list then you are clearly deluded. Some of the biggest names in Eve, and the leaders of more than one alliance would be banned. Still, it is for the best, right? Yeah, do it. I'll still be here. tbh WHY do they have CCP staff on their contact lists? thats completely messed up.. As some of your fellow goon alts have posted, have you not read the thread? The answer to why they have CCP staff on their contact lists is in the thread You are right! First time you told the truth so far - it's so they can cheat! Grats for finally catching up to dianabolic's posts!
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:35:00 - [2992] Originally by: Sigmorhair Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: MissileRus Originally by: Avon Originally by: Creh Ester And here's the catch: If players have such connections to GMs, developers or any CCP employee, it's certain - absolutely 100% certain - that they will be regularly used for cheating! No doubt whatsoever! Please don't insult me with any crap about ethics of high standard, "Internal Affairs" or other nonsense. If you want to safe guard the game you must implement a system of firewalls between players and game company employees. CCP have done nothing of the sort. So, let's just ban anyone who has any CCP employee or anyone affiliated with CCP on their MSN contact list, because they are all automatically cheats? You know what, go for it. And, let's also make a list of all the people who got banned. Sure some BoB may get banned, and that would be a shame, but if you imagine that only BoB names would be on that list then you are clearly deluded. Some of the biggest names in Eve, and the leaders of more than one alliance would be banned. Still, it is for the best, right? Yeah, do it. I'll still be here. tbh WHY do they have CCP staff on their contact lists? thats completely messed up.. As some of your fellow goon alts have posted, have you not read the thread? The answer to why they have CCP staff on their contact lists is in the thread You are right! First time you told the truth so far - it's so they can cheat! Grats for finally catching up to dianabolic's posts! No, i was actually refering to the point that they had them as contacts before they even became devs but keep on trying to twist my words
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:37:00 - [2993] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Sigmorhair Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: MissileRus Originally by: Avon Originally by: Creh Ester And here's the catch: If players have such connections to GMs, developers or any CCP employee, it's certain - absolutely 100% certain - that they will be regularly used for cheating! No doubt whatsoever! Please don't insult me with any crap about ethics of high standard, "Internal Affairs" or other nonsense. If you want to safe guard the game you must implement a system of firewalls between players and game company employees. CCP have done nothing of the sort. So, let's just ban anyone who has any CCP employee or anyone affiliated with CCP on their MSN contact list, because they are all automatically cheats? You know what, go for it. And, let's also make a list of all the people who got banned. Sure some BoB may get banned, and that would be a shame, but if you imagine that only BoB names would be on that list then you are clearly deluded. Some of the biggest names in Eve, and the leaders of more than one alliance would be banned. Still, it is for the best, right? Yeah, do it. I'll still be here. tbh WHY do they have CCP staff on their contact lists? thats completely messed up.. As some of your fellow goon alts have posted, have you not read the thread? The answer to why they have CCP staff on their contact lists is in the thread You are right! First time you told the truth so far - it's so they can cheat! Grats for finally catching up to dianabolic's posts! No, i was actually refering to the point that they had them as contacts before they even became devs but keep on trying to twist my words no need to twist anything friend. You and your lies are obvious to all.
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:38:00 - [2994] Originally by: Mordrake Ok here is a proposal: 1: All CCP staff delete characters presently in player run Alliances and inactivate all accounts with characters not in Player Run Alliances until no longer employed by CCP. 2: Aurora sets up CCP run Alliances for all the major NPC enteties/Factions in game. All staff are kept abreast of these Factions present Modivations and Mindset along with overview of presently running Arcs. 3: CCP/Aurora Staff can freely create characters in any CCP run Alliance with a set ammount of skillpoints (say 30Mil) and these characters do not train new skills. 4: When Staff are playing EVE they will act according to what the Faction the character presently being played belongs to. 5: Equipment needed for these characters will be drawn from Alliance hangers and will be closely monitered and resupplied by members of CCP's Internal Affairs Staff. Which will solve what exactly? Face it, CCP will always allow their employees to play EVE on the TQ server. It's been said over and over again. There is no problem with that as far as I'm concerned. It is what these employees seem to get away with while they're playing on TQ. It is what these employees do for other players on TQ. That's were the problem is. What CCP should do, in my opinion, is do a full, no limits, investigation into what is going on, and let the chips fall where they may fall. If they find wrong-doing with a player, he should be perma-banned. If they find wrong-doing with an employee player he should be perma-banned and fired. No more excuses this time, everyone was warned after the t20 afair. If BoB has any integrity they should welcome this! Who would want to be part of what is now known as the 'cheaters' alliance? The problem is that, as it looks now, this process would lead to a lot of banned BoB players and fired employees. And whatever your sentiments, it is hard to ban your friends. I don't see how CCP has a choice though. The 'slap-on-the-wrist'-trick only works once (and badly at that). If there's any truth in this, and it sure looks compelling, heads must roll. Any perceived half-measures will mean the end of EVE as we know it. Only after EVE is thoroughly cleaned out will any future policies have any use. It is useless to institute strict policies while you can't trust the institute that enforcesses them. sed quis custodiat ipsos custodes qui nunc lasciuae furta puellae hac mercede silent? --
Heintron Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:39:00 - [2995] I believe the worst thing about this mess for me is being told by BoB that: "this is the way it is, if you don't like it quit". And: "they are our friends if you were as leet as us youd be friends with them as well" So... the rest of the thousands of eve-players should do as you or quit? Lets just forget the fact that this is practically impossible, we already have a petition system in place for these matters. When bob can fire away an msn mess instead of using the ordinary channels like everyone else the game is imbalanced. I hate it when arrogant people tell me that the game I love and pay good money for is supposed to be in a certain way that favours them and that my only choice is to accept or go away. That sucks.
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:41:00 - [2996] Originally by: Heintron I believe the worst thing about this mess for me is being told by BoB that: "this is the way it is, if you don't like it quit". And: "they are our friends if you were as leet as us youd be friends with them as well" So... the rest of the thousands of eve-players should do as you or quit? Lets just forget the fact that this is practically impossible, we already have a petition system in place for these matters. When bob can fire away an msn mess instead of using the ordinary channels like everyone else the game is imbalanced. I hate it when arrogant people tell me that the game I love and pay good money for is supposed to be in a certain way that favours them and that my only choice is to accept or go away. That sucks. Exactly. You pile to Bob sycophants and the cheating on top of this and it makes it that much worse.
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:42:00 - [2997] Originally by: Sigmorhair Originally by: Uruko Pls goons, leave the game allready! It's pretty damning of the moderation of these boards that goonfleet posts get edited and deleted but this crap is fine. Indeed, the moderation is so one-sided, it rediculous. If this is the way things are going, it doesn't look good. --
Frater Perdurabo Amarr The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:42:00 - [2998] Hmmmm, the whole sharkbait thing seems a bit odd, but hardly OMGDEVHAX! style cheating, yet arkonons statement only covers that issue. Personally i'd be much more worried about the dodgy rp stuff that was in that open letter (and i might add was very convincing) Sig-> Good isnt it.
Cedori Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:42:00 - [2999] I figured I would post something as this whole thing has begun to stink. First off, the original post has very little evidence, but the atmosphere created after the T20 event, and it's absolutely unacceptable resolution has truly left a bad taste in the mouths of many, myself included. This bad taste leads to a suspicion of CCP, of their motives and actions in general, so when another set of events comes up, of course everyone's reaction is going to be one of anger. This, all of this, is not just about the accusations made in the open letter, it's a symptom of something deeper. That after the T20 affair, CCP lost the trust of a large portion of it's playerbase, and had to re-earn that trust. Unfortunately, this happened before they were able to re-earn that trust, so the damage may well be irrepairable. That said, I do feel there is something being left out. The fact that there isn't any real comment from CCP yet. People have said "It's a weekend", or "It's a holiday", and I for one think this little bomb was released on purpose on a holiday weekend, but that's missing something. If you work in a customer service field, and something goes wrong, you go to work to fix it. That is, if it's important, and if it's a rather major screwup. I was once called in to work on Christmas because the billing system at the place I worked got screwed up, and I was one of 10 people called in to try to fix it. The fact that CCP haven't come in. That they haven't tried to fix it, implies to me that their weekend/holiday is more valuable then my, and 180,000 other people's money. It's the IMPLICATION of "meh, that can wait for Tuesday" that to me at least, is as damning as the original accusations. I'm waiting at this time for the response of CCP before I decide to do what's next. Which is a shame, I love this game, but if I don't think that an actual investigation has been carried out(regardless of outcome, as I said, these are accusations and may very well be wrong), but if I don't think a real, actual, and unbiased investigation has been carried out, then I will quit. And no, you may not have my stuff. Which is a stupid and sad comment on the state of the community itself I gotta admit.
Iskender Kebab Kebab Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:43:00 - [3000] Originally by: Heintron I believe the worst thing about this mess for me is being told by BoB that: "this is the way it is, if you don't like it quit". And: "they are our friends if you were as leet as us youd be friends with them as well" So... the rest of the thousands of eve-players should do as you or quit? Lets just forget the fact that this is practically impossible, we already have a petition system in place for these matters. When bob can fire away an msn mess instead of using the ordinary channels like everyone else the game is imbalanced. I hate it when arrogant people tell me that the game I love and pay good money for is supposed to be in a certain way that favours them and that my only choice is to accept or go away. That sucks. I'll second that!
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:43:00 - [3001] Originally by: Mordrake Ok here is a proposal: 1: All CCP staff delete characters presently in player run Alliances and inactivate all accounts with characters not in Player Run Alliances until no longer employed by CCP. ... It's too late for that, actually. You can delete all the dev chars from the game. You can ban them from ever even joining player server. You can monitor every keystroke they make at work. They'll go home, open MSN, start a chat with their "friend" (big names and/or alliance leaders), and tell them all the info they want to know. As that ex-Blizzard employee said (and it really doesn't even matter if he worked there or not) - player pool has been "contaminated". Too many people know the devs, too many people know GMs. No matter what, there will always be 'doubts', as long as same people keep developing/GMing the game. For all we know, those same devs/GMs and big names have been chatting for past 48 hours, all they wanted. Maybe they chatted about girls, maybe about weather, and maybe about EVE. And you can't prevent it. Unless you fire all devs and GMs, and hire new ones. Yeah, I see that one coming. The question is will people keep playing the game with all those doubts "floating around" forever
Minaras Laentic	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:43:00 - [3002] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Originally by: Mordrake Ok here is a proposal: 1: All CCP staff delete characters presently in player run Alliances and inactivate all accounts with characters not in Player Run Alliances until no longer employed by CCP. 2: Aurora sets up CCP run Alliances for all the major NPC enteties/Factions in game. All staff are kept abreast of these Factions present Modivations and Mindset along with overview of presently running Arcs. 3: CCP/Aurora Staff can freely create characters in any CCP run Alliance with a set ammount of skillpoints (say 30Mil) and these characters do not train new skills. 4: When Staff are playing EVE they will act according to what the Faction the character presently being played belongs to. 5: Equipment needed for these characters will be drawn from Alliance hangers and will be closely monitered and resupplied by members of CCP's Internal Affairs Staff. Which will solve what exactly? Face it, CCP will always allow their employees to play EVE on the TQ server. It's been said over and over again. There is no problem with that as far as I'm concerned. It is what these employees seem to get away with while they're playing on TQ. It is what these employees do for other players on TQ. That's were the problem is. What CCP should do, in my opinion, is do a full, no limits, investigation into what is going on, and let the chips fall where they may fall. If they find wrong-doing with a player, he should be perma-banned. If they find wrong-doing with an employee player he should be perma-banned and fired. No more excuses this time, everyone was warned after the t20 afair. If BoB has any integrity they should welcome this! Who would want to be part of what is now known as the 'cheaters' alliance? The problem is that, as it looks now, this process would lead to a lot of banned BoB players and fired employees. And whatever your sentiments, it is hard to ban your friends. I don't see how CCP has a choice though. The 'slap-on-the-wrist'-trick only works once (and badly at that). If there's any truth in this, and it sure looks compelling, heads must roll. Any perceived half-measures will mean the end of EVE as we know it. Only after EVE is thoroughly cleaned out will any future policies have any use. It is useless to institute strict policies while you can't trust the institute that enforcesses them. sed quis custodiat ipsos custodes qui nunc lasciuae furta puellae hac mercede silent? The smartest thing said on the topic so far imo. and would u guys, both BoB/whatever and goonswarm and friends plz stop the stone-throwing and name calling? its so 4th grade, seriously. nobody wants innocent people banned/firedand this discussion has gone way off line a long time ago
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:47:00 - [3003] Originally by: Avon So, let's just ban anyone who has any CCP employee or anyone affiliated with CCP on their MSN contact list, because they are all automatically cheats? That's not what he was saying in the slightest. In other news I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace. Originally by: Witty Moniker You have nothing on us, you have nothing on CCP, Well we have what your members have given us which is plenty to be going on with: Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Originally by: D'Artagnan Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it.
Levrin Atischa	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:49:00 - [3004] Originally by: Nikodaemonicus Originally by: ShinChan So we have so far: 1. ISD member from Goon bumping BOB dread fleet 2. ISD Goon told to move away, but he refuses and goes berserk on local. 3. ISD Goon been expeled from ISD. 4. GM doing his job and fixing a goon POS. 5. Goons DDSoing the EVE-O forums. 6. Goons spamming EVE-O. 7. Goons going berserker on EVE-O forums. 8. Goon mass creating trial accounts to insult on EVE-O forums. 9. Goons finally leaving EVE with their tails between their legs? Thanks for summing it up. The above statement sums it up nicely indeed although it misses: - resorting to mass slander because all other attempts to make a stamp on the game by other means have failed and then leaving for lotro. pffff the childish behavior, all this mass posting only makes painfully clear that most of the goonies need some serious help with learning how to place real live, in game reality and corporate politics in perspective to each other. I mean is this much fuzz over such a small thing, is it really worth it? Even if all the proposed allegations where true then it still isn't worth this much fuzz. Stop for 3 seconds and think about it for a bit. Do you really want to hurt a company and the ppl that work there and the ppl that enjoy the game? Just because you are angry and can do it safely and anonymously on the net? most people here have the feeling that you've been done a great injustice? what injustice has been done? the perceived misconducts(which are small imho) or is this about not winning or getting something done in a 'in-game environment'? please go play somewhere else, we don't need you here! p.s. can i have your stuff and isk?
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:50:00 - [3005] Originally by: Sigmorhair no need to twist anything friend. You and your lies are obvious to all. Im lying? Excuse me but if you actually read what was said earlier you will see that not once did dian say msn was used to cheat but did infact state that he had contact with devs from knowing them BEFORE they became devs. So no, its you who is the liar
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:51:00 - [3006] modDamageControl is already DamageControl, amirite?
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:55:00 - [3007] Originally by: Witty Moniker Edited by: Witty Moniker on 27/05/2007 14:24:27 Originally by: Haloskeeter As has been said by myself before, they can play all they damn well please. When they start helping out their buddies, it becomes a problem. As shown with the many BoB scandals as of late, it doesn't work. CCP employees out of everyone should respect their game and not **** it up for everyone except a select group. You don't know that. You know nothing about CCP or BoB, and that includes how either of them work. So why don't you chill with the slander, defamatory, random rumors and trashtalk you're littering everything with. So many BoB scandels. You are linking trash that happened in the past to us, even though it has been stated by ALL parties, that we were not involved, nor had any knowledge about what was going on. Everything has been removed, and we moved on. It's time for you to do the same. You keep hammering the same nail over and over. Get over it. Before you go post crap and spam the entire forum with your BS, you might want to have another look at your so called evidence, or anything at all to back up these accusations. You have nothing on us, you have nothing on CCP, in fact, you don't even own your space anymore. So be quiet now. Hehehe.... Oh dude. Reading your post I can't work out whether you are BoB, CCP, BoD or whatever.... You guys have exactly zero credibility - not least as a result of your posts on this thread.
Ediz Daxx FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:55:00 - [3008] Originally by: ShinChan So we have so far: 1. ISD member from Goon bumping BOB dread fleet 2. ISD Goon told to move away, but he refuses and goes berserk on local. 3. ISD Goon been expeled from ISD. 4. GM doing his job and fixing a goon POS. 5. Goons DDSoing the EVE-O forums. 6. Goons spamming EVE-O. 7. Goons going berserker on EVE-O forums. 8. Goon mass creating trial accounts to insult on EVE-O forums. 9. Goons finally leaving EVE with their tails between their legs? qft
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:56:00 - [3009] So the ISD member was a goon? I never heard that before. Sounds like bob is taking a few liberties with the facts.
Bishop 5 Gallente Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:57:00 - [3010] Absolutely sickening. All of it. From T20 to this... Grow some balls and start looking for replacement staff or start looking for a new playerbase... and I guarantee the latter option is a lot harder. Players getting volunteers banned, developers handing out free stuff worth a lot of ISK, banning people on the forums and ingame for trying to bring this to the attention of all (which I find the most sickening), spying, cheating, lying, stealing... it's just not worth it anymore. Eve is a great game but it's not going to be for much longer if this sort of **** keeps happening, which makes me sad panda. Ergh... it took every ounce of self restraint i've got not to write swear words all over this. ------------- meh
dennyreborn	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:57:00 - [3011] the solution is CCP need to hire me at 150,000 a year to ensure fairness. If CCP does that there will be not even the appearance of Dev misconduct.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:58:00 - [3012] Originally by: Levrin Atischa Originally by: Nikodaemonicus Originally by: ShinChan So we have so far: 1. ISD member from Goon bumping BOB dread fleet 2. ISD Goon told to move away, but he refuses and goes berserk on local. 3. ISD Goon been expeled from ISD. 4. GM doing his job and fixing a goon POS. 5. Goons DDSoing the EVE-O forums. 6. Goons spamming EVE-O. 7. Goons going berserker on EVE-O forums. 8. Goon mass creating trial accounts to insult on EVE-O forums. 9. Goons finally leaving EVE with their tails between their legs? Thanks for summing it up. The above statement sums it up nicely indeed although it misses: ... For the life of me, I can't figure out how you all managed to conclude it was "ISD Goon" that (allegedly) bumped that dread? In few more pages, story will be distorted so much, it will be whoever_is_the_goon_leader_now, who bumped that dread. On page 135, it will probably be common knowledge that CYVOK himself was actually ISD reported who (allegedly) bumped the dread, as a revenge to BoB... No predictions for page 170, though
Lobo Noturno	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:03:00 - [3013] It seems we have four types of posters in this thread: 1) BoB people, in defense of CCP, saying that whatever they do is for the good of the game and therefore right and fair. Based on recent events, it is clear that BoB ties to developers and GMs within CCP have gone way beyond the good of the game or fairness torwards other alliances. So these posters are just ignoring the facts or really have very twisted notions of ethics. 2) BoB people saying goons are just crying cause they can't win in game. Although it might or not be true, the fact is it has nothing to do with the main issue that this thread is supposedly to handle, which is not goon crying or excessive forum posting. This thread is about allegations on GM misconduct and unfairness in Gm/Dev communications with specific alliances or players about in-game stuff. Any sane person would know that, while it is possible for GMs and Devs to be friends with players, communicating bugs, asking for fixes or petitioning through MSN is NOT acceptable. Most people have to wait for hours, perhaps days to get an answer from a petition, and some people can just MSN a GM and have it fixed instantly. This is an unfair gameplay advantage, on a game that is essentially player-driven PVP... 3) Goons trying to burn CCP and BoB on the stake and showing extreme repulse to CCP actions, even though IA has be called to look into it, and these kinds of things can't and shouldn't be handled without proper investigation and applying of valid policies. In this specific case, it is very likely that CCP might be forced to add more policies to what is acceptable or not for their employees, and policies, just like laws in real life, should be thought over before implemented. 4) Players worried with both the accusation and the fact that there are people that think this is acceptable. I do hope those turns out to be the majority, or else EVE would be on it's way to extinction regardless... Lobo
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:05:00 - [3014] Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 15:03:53 Originally by: Cassiuss This just proves how intense this game is. A dev(s) willing to risk his RL income/job/name for some virtual rewards is laughable. You know your too caught up in a game when. Anyways, I am hoping CCP deal with this behaviour harshly, this **** needs to be nipped in the bud. Its gone on far to long. All people want in game the invest in is fairness and some fun. Cheating ruins both. except there is no risk of being fired, because ccp won't fire someone over this, they've already proven it before
Karim alRashid Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:05:00 - [3015] Originally by: kioraa First off, CCP personel will not need to join a corp in order to see what they're building in a POS to relay that info to "their corp mates". They will have first hand access to the game databases no doubt so those allegations are big big bull****. There's really no way you could be sure of that. It might be that that particular employee did not have access to the database. It might be that that particular employee had access, but this access had audit log. And it might be none of the above and this particular event was completely innocent. In any case, it 100% warrants an investigation.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:07:00 - [3016] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 14:06:20 Originally by: Stradiot you're wrong, it's highly implicit of wrongdoing When something is implied, which is usually subjectively, it does not make it a fact. which is why it's going to be investigated by arkanon p.s. post with your main you spineless coward, if you have anything worth saying, it's worth saying with your main So you're saying this thread is not needed then. Arkanon was going to investigate it before, but for some reason GoonSwarm didn't find the lack of drama satisfying. still too much of a spineless coward to post on your main i see
Grader	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:12:00 - [3017] this is just crazy... they were caught cheating before,, did nothing told us nothing, there going to do nothing again,, as a matter of fact they have hired ppl from the game, so u know bobs in the actual employment of ccp now.. this is all fine, go ahead cheat, etc, and yes \ we a;; know its not all bob etc ,, but one appl spoiuls the barrel etc. but can u plz stopp spamming locals with trash at every engagement beatinbg ur chest etc. cheaters cheat, then they want to be adored as if theyve conquered the world? go earn ur isk dont buy it or sell it.go buy a ship dont steral it or buy it from ebay.. meet me anywhwere anythime win or lose gf. but no eve is done, totaLLY corrupt and run by children.... just like bob who has probbaly 25 badasss's then 25k children running to play at the guys house who has the cheatcoodes.. jut6s shutup if u are in bob or any of bobs pets... the on;ly reaSON u have anyone to fight at all is because even thpo we all know u have cheated us , and made ur selves all have the invincible button we dont care, we want to fight evil pumped upp jerks,,, so this equals u as the evil cheating pumped up badwagon boys that are just flat crap to ever know or be around,,, gl u buncha criminals... and yes ccp bob anhd all associated are just6 criminals.. cmon stop the isk sales, stop cheating, get out of ccp go get a damn job.... and ccp lock all assetes of every corp allaince in eve thats in o.0 get rifd of them all,,, bob and coalition,, we nbeed a restart. u sucked u screwed up and are njot mature enought to care.
Cudeiro Amarr Princeps Corp YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:12:00 - [3018] BOOST AMARR!!! err miss thread.. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Maj Woodcock Minmatar United Space Aillance USA	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:13:00 - [3019] Originally by: dennyreborn the solution is CCP need to hire me at 150,000 a year to ensure fairness. If CCP does that there will be not even the appearance of Dev misconduct. and for $150,000.00 US plus housing in Iceland 6 months out of the year I'll run thier HR and Ethics depatment. Tell you the true CCP needs one badly! PROMISES MADE > PROMISES KEPT *SO SAY WE ALL*
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:14:00 - [3020] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 15:13:37 Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 14:06:20 Originally by: Stradiot you're wrong, it's highly implicit of wrongdoing When something is implied, which is usually subjectively, it does not make it a fact. which is why it's going to be investigated by arkanon p.s. post with your main you spineless coward, if you have anything worth saying, it's worth saying with your main So you're saying this thread is not needed then. Arkanon was going to investigate it before, but for some reason GoonSwarm didn't find the lack of drama satisfying. still too much of a spineless coward to post on your main i see It seems that the time has come that you can no longer defend your position. So you just strike at the person, right on.
Straw Man	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:15:00 - [3021] Heh, one good thing about this thread... Shows who all the bob slave corps are, along with their fanboi's.. -- "It is a rare mind indeed that can render the hitherto non-existent blindingly obvious." - Doug Adams --
Necessitas Postverta	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:15:00 - [3022] Originally by: Lobo Noturno even though IA has be called to look into it Frankly it's rather sad that IA has to be 'called' to look into it. Under logical circumstances, they shouldn't need players to tell them when things are being abused. CCP seems to have set up a useless division that can't even be bothered to notice when GMs abuse their powers in suspicious ways. Keeping logs of EVERY usage of GM/Dev commands in game should be a simple task and one that a small IA department could easily review daily. BoB's direct connection with the developers is a tangental matter to the first point, also involving IA. Once again, why isn't IA keeping an eye on employee usage of company systems - with internal IRC and presumably other networks, it seems strange that nobody notice at least some important staff were in direct contact with the playerbase. Blindly allowing this only harms the game, it's players, and in the end the company itself.
manimani Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:18:00 - [3023] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: manimani Edited by: manimani on 27/05/2007 13:52:00 Originally by: Stradiot Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 13:46:31 Originally by: Richard Johannson Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate T20 hands out T2 BPOs to his friends. Result: CCP do their best to cover it up, and when it finally gets out, he recieves a slap on the wrist. The way internal matters have been handled in CCP have been a farce so far, and if they are surprised they are the only company with regular scandals, it only takes a few seconds to find out why. Can not agree more with you They say we are against coruption, but they act exatly opposite they're like the communist party of china Well, at least the Chinese are changing, they even have death penalties for corrupted officials..... CCP just gives them a slap on the wrist So, what your saying is, T20 should of received the death penalty? Ironic seeing as goons always use the excuse of "you take the game to seriously" to their enemies hahaha, so not falling for that
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:18:00 - [3024] Originally by: Maj Woodcock Originally by: dennyreborn the solution is CCP need to hire me at 150,000 a year to ensure fairness. If CCP does that there will be not even the appearance of Dev misconduct. and for $150,000.00 US plus housing in Iceland 6 months out of the year I'll run thier HR and Ethics depatment. Tell you the true CCP needs one badly! I'll sign up too. I have multple convictions for fraud, theft and whatnot...
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:19:00 - [3025] No, i suggest: 1. You fire everyone who was involved in cheating, even in spy out intelligence and relayed that info to Goons or BoB. 2. You take away all belongings,Ships,Mods of BoB or Goons which were involved in cheating. P.S. Can CCP ban itself ?
Trind2222 Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:20:00 - [3026] I read like 50 pages is long tread, i don't like cheating i have not cheated in this game i have logged out to save the pod yes i can amit doing that. I agree whit the goons for once and i hate the goons much, but have to argee that cpp ignored them and did not awswer why this hapend. The repoter was most unlucky if any players can msn a gm him and get person banded whit out invsigation is wrong ccp. Hope they find out exactly what happend here.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:21:00 - [3027] Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 15:22:51 Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 15:21:50 Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 15:20:59 Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 15:13:37 Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Stradiot Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 14:06:20 Originally by: Stradiot you're wrong, it's highly implicit of wrongdoing When something is implied, which is usually subjectively, it does not make it a fact. which is why it's going to be investigated by arkanon p.s. post with your main you spineless coward, if you have anything worth saying, it's worth saying with your main So you're saying this thread is not needed then. Arkanon was going to investigate it before, but for some reason GoonSwarm didn't find the lack of drama satisfying. still too much of a spineless coward to post on your main i see It seems that the time has come that you can no longer defend your position. So you just strike at the person, right on. do you even know what my position is? i've already said in this thread that i don't care if fixing eve means causing all 0.0 alliances to implode (including goonswarm), i want the rampant corruption and collusion to end and for those involved to be publically held accountable, and i want a system to be put in place where none of this behind the curtains palm-greasing can happen again now get on your main if you actually give a damn about saving eve from behind the curtains corruption, or you can prove that you care most about letting people continue to benefit from abusing their connections and positions and nothing else matters to you aside from that by continuing to hide behind an alt
manimani Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:22:00 - [3028] Originally by: Ediz Daxx Originally by: ShinChan So we have so far: 1. ISD member from Goon bumping BOB dread fleet 2. ISD Goon told to move away, but he refuses and goes berserk on local. 3. ISD Goon been expeled from ISD. 4. GM doing his job and fixing a goon POS. 5. Goons DDSoing the EVE-O forums. 6. Goons spamming EVE-O. 7. Goons going berserker on EVE-O forums. 8. Goon mass creating trial accounts to insult on EVE-O forums. 9. Goons finally leaving EVE with their tails between their legs? qft Hhahahahhaa
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:23:00 - [3029] Guys lets make one thing straight here.... CCP has cheated before with bob, and they did nothing about it. This situation might not amount to anything huge other then the firing of a volunteer, but lets thing about the implications of this. Bob has direct lines via msn, to the top of command. They circimvent the whole petition system and speak directly to the devs and get petitions taken care of immediatly. This is not fair to the rest of the player base and has other implications. As far as we know the devs sit in teamspeak with bob, answer their every whim via msn. There are probably MANY more cases of corrupt actions between bob and the GMS, I mean really if this stuff keeps coming to light their must be some truth to it, and their is probably much more as well. Goonswarm, I applaud you for bringing the truth to light, don't listen to anyone else when they throw a bunch of sand in your eyes for this.
Mordrake MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:23:00 - [3030] Wheelchair Demagogue / Flashmob 21 Thanks a bunch man!! Its refreshing to get a spoonfull of truth instead of a shovel full of lies. Respect ; ] "Arte et Marte"
Valheru Meator	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:27:00 - [3031] sad .. sad sad,What liitle faith in CCP i had is finally over, I think I am finaly going to buy an account on Lord of the Rings online. nothing more to add, but this is truly a sad day indeed.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:28:00 - [3032] My suggestion is: 1. Fire everyone who was involved in Cheating, even in spy out intelligence and relay that to Goons or BoB. 2. Take away all ships and belongings of the Goons and BoB, whichever was involved in cheating. 3. Ban the cheaters. Thanks P.S. Can CCP ban itselve?
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:29:00 - [3033] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 15:27:50 Originally by: Stradiot do you even know what my position is? i've already said in this thread that i don't care if fixing eve means causing all 0.0 alliances to implode (including goonswarm), i want the rampant corruption and collusion to end and for those involved to be publically held accountable, and i want a system to be put in place where none of this behind the curtains palm-greasing can happen again Why don't you wait until the investigation is over? Much easier then this supposed dramabomb.
Valkador	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:32:00 - [3034] Originally by: HatfulOfHollow Edited by: HatfulOfHollow on 25/05/2007 23:53:45 Let's see... A CCP employee joined DS1 and gives himself Director roles without warning The CEO of DS1 files a petition asking why this occured when he sees it in the audit logs The petition is instantly deleted I dunno. Sounds pretty fishy to me. Faith in ISD to give us a straight answer? laffo edit, taken from the in game bio of the DS1 CEO Quote: Statement on dev misconduct: for the record, Darkstar1 has 3 pos in game only, both are and have always worked fine and have never been petitioned by anyone in the corp for not working, the statement given by CCP is incorrect and simply not true, LUCASWV, - CEO of Darkstar1 Maybe you're not as important as you think you are and should just suck it up and let the guy do his job.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:33:00 - [3035] Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Guys lets make one thing straight here.... CCP has cheated before with bob, and they did nothing about it. This situation might not amount to anything huge other then the firing of a volunteer, but lets thing about the implications of this. Bob has direct lines via msn, to the top of command. They circimvent the whole petition system and speak directly to the devs and get petitions taken care of immediatly. This is not fair to the rest of the player base and has other implications. As far as we know the devs sit in teamspeak with bob, answer their every whim via msn. There are probably MANY more cases of corrupt actions between bob and the GMS, I mean really if this stuff keeps coming to light their must be some truth to it, and their is probably much more as well. Goonswarm, I applaud you for bringing the truth to light, don't listen to anyone else when they throw a bunch of sand in your eyes for this. It's amazing what the human mind can make up from thin-air. You know, nowhere has anything you've written above been stated and not a single shred of prove. But you still manage to add things to it, just like that. It's like that circle whispering game.. whatcha callit? ...
Rysio Joint Espionage and Defence Industries	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:35:00 - [3036] I canÆt believe what im reading in this forum and others. I give money to this company who are deceitful, corrupt and dishonourable? I mean what the hell??? Firstly ccp and alliance members openly consorting with each other isnÆt that in legal words a "breach of interest". Then removing people and threads discussing whatÆs going on this is ridiculous. Ive been playing eve for 4 years now and ive never felt so let down. CCP I read somewhere in the forums that youÆll be limiting what information you release on the issues on corruption, this in my mind is totally wrong I strongly beg you to allow full disclosure as to whatÆs happening or else all faith in Eve's 'fairness' and playability will be lost and what is an awesome game will lose its fan base.
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:36:00 - [3037] Originally by: Avon No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. It amazes me to see this kind of . . . "thinking" being done by posters like Avon. Actually, let us say that Goons did NOT follow proper channels for bringing this to the public. For example, let us say they did not email IA first, or send a petition at all. Well, fine, let's say this for the sake of discussion. It does NOT logically follow that the charges made are wrong, incorrect, or dismissable. It just means Goons should have been more patient. And given CCp's prior handling of issues, it may have ended up the same way anyway, albeit further down the road. SO, your remark, "both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread" makes no rational sense. There is an overall long-standing link between BOB and devs/GMs that is causing mistrust among players and is supported by the kind of actions/behavior brought up in this thread. Dear BOB posters -- stick to the issues, the actual events, the points being made. Stop trying to deflect thread readers from the main issues by cryin and whinin and wimpering like little girls about: 1. Goons wanting to just ruin game, 2. Goons are sore losers and lost now they want to blame something/someone (odd, since Goons still hold a huge amount of 0.0 space), 3. Goons are just mad cause they don't have dev/GM friends like we do (actually the very point everyone is angry at you about). To be CLEAR ---------This is NOT an issue of who is winning/losing game. To be honest, I don't care who wins or loses. Someone has to win, someone has to lose. Whichever side I am on, that's fine with me, it's all fun. HOWEVER, what does matter is HOW someone wins or loses. I want to win (or lose) fair and square. Not receive preferential treatment in the universe by being able to ring up a dev/GM anytime I need something down NOW, or be handed T2 BPOs under the table without working for them, or get 0.0 plexes spawning every hour to farm, or ...... you get the idea. Whether goons were correct to threadnaught the forukms is certainly an issue for debate. And I can see both sides of thhat particular argument. But whichever side of that you coem down on, it doesn't change the issues Goons raised or the behavior/actions of BOB and their dev/GM buddies. At least now everyone can see that there was quite a bit of mistrust for CCP under the surface of the whole community. And it has also been shown that Band of Brothers, for al of their 0.0 space and uber T2 pilots, have one of the poorest reputations in Eve -- i.e., they cheat and take advantage of inside contacts to achieve their goals. Kind of a hollow victory, IMHO. And no - not all BOB are cheaters. There, i said it. And no - not all Goons are wild-eyed, foul-mouthed freaks. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
hendo001 Caldari Guardian Heroes Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:37:00 - [3038] I've been reading some of the replies in this thread but it seems there is too much bickering and acusations flying around. Would ccp create an independant body of some of the eve players and ask them to review the evidence and aligations and decide what is fact and fiction, much like a real jury. I think this would help to resolve alot of the arguments and bickering. Also would it be possible for some more information about what happened, be it released from ccp and the corps directly involved.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:38:00 - [3039] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Guys lets make one thing straight here.... CCP has cheated before with bob, and they did nothing about it. This situation might not amount to anything huge other then the firing of a volunteer, but lets thing about the implications of this. Bob has direct lines via msn, to the top of command. They circimvent the whole petition system and speak directly to the devs and get petitions taken care of immediatly. This is not fair to the rest of the player base and has other implications. As far as we know the devs sit in teamspeak with bob, answer their every whim via msn. There are probably MANY more cases of corrupt actions between bob and the GMS, I mean really if this stuff keeps coming to light their must be some truth to it, and their is probably much more as well. Goonswarm, I applaud you for bringing the truth to light, don't listen to anyone else when they throw a bunch of sand in your eyes for this. It's amazing what the human mind can make up from thin-air. You know, nowhere has anything you've written above been stated and not a single shred of prove. But you still manage to add things to it, just like that. It's like that circle whispering game.. whatcha callit? ... Hi Aneu...errr...Blacklight signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:38:00 - [3040] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex For the life of me, I can't figure out how you all managed to conclude it was "ISD Goon" that (allegedly) bumped that dread? In few more pages, story will be distorted so much, it will be whoever_is_the_goon_leader_now, who bumped that dread. On page 135, it will probably be common knowledge that CYVOK himself was actually ISD reported who (allegedly) bumped the dread, as a revenge to BoB... No predictions for page 170, though On page 200 remedial will have actually gone over to the guy's house and punched him in the face and unplugged his computer
Nehalennia Mellona GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:39:00 - [3041] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Guys lets make one thing straight here.... CCP has cheated before with bob, and they did nothing about it. This situation might not amount to anything huge other then the firing of a volunteer, but lets thing about the implications of this. Bob has direct lines via msn, to the top of command. They circimvent the whole petition system and speak directly to the devs and get petitions taken care of immediatly. This is not fair to the rest of the player base and has other implications. As far as we know the devs sit in teamspeak with bob, answer their every whim via msn. There are probably MANY more cases of corrupt actions between bob and the GMS, I mean really if this stuff keeps coming to light their must be some truth to it, and their is probably much more as well. Goonswarm, I applaud you for bringing the truth to light, don't listen to anyone else when they throw a bunch of sand in your eyes for this. It's amazing what the human mind can make up from thin-air. You know, nowhere has anything you've written above been stated and not a single shred of prove. But you still manage to add things to it, just like that. It's like that circle whispering game.. whatcha callit? ... Back in my day kids used to call it Telephone. These days with all the technology and such, they probably call it MSN.
noob123	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:39:00 - [3042] Honestly, I start to regret that I upgraded my account to paid account. :/
CitzNo 097864 Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:40:00 - [3043] Additionally to my first post Nobody can possibly defend CCP against this evidence. Nobody can possibly disagree about cheating now, Either BoB or GoonFleet Frankly, Responding to this thread is a waste. And responding to this thread is worthless. Neither CCP or forum reader will pay attention. Kurtis Magnum. Initally, I felt that i could let CCP slide, but thats changed So I made this post. A So I'll aim my statement Loosely, so I don't get banned Under any circumstances a company should never work to make a player win, its Totally screwed up.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:41:00 - [3044] Originally by: noob123 Honestly, I start to regret that I upgraded my account to paid account. :/ yeah your not an alt lol
Makran Caldari Rome SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:43:00 - [3045] So... So far what I can gather from this thread is that BoB and GoonSwarm and CCP had something going on. Judging from what I've read, BoB has been somehow linked to "cheating" by exploiting a connection within CCP. In my time in EVE I think that I've heard similar allegations about BoB two other times, for a total of three different instances of similar accusations. Seems like there's an underlying and persistant problem that hasn't been addressed yet as far as employment screening for conflicts of interest. Kinduv a bummer really. ===== Space-Ninjas are mammals too.
Luv Trucker	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:43:00 - [3046] Whole thread is just goonies being like a lot of crybabies who wants attentions. If were really wanting to fix things not ruin game goonies would just convo CCP peeps on instant messenger instead of starting such a thread. Goonies must adapt to instant messenger or else they ruin this very good game.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:43:00 - [3047] Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn on 27/05/2007 15:42:52 Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Why don't you wait until the investigation is over? Much easier then this supposed dramabomb. Are you honestly going to believe anything CCP says? The only way I will possibly believe them is if people get fired, and even then they could just lie to us some more and not actually fire anyone, just change their name.
MoxMox	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:43:00 - [3048] Had fun playing at different levels in this game, but why bother? My 3 accounts closed
TartarSauce	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:46:00 - [3049] Originally by: Scrutt5 Humm Dev Misconduct... Unforutunatly we live in a corrupt society, however even goverments nip it in the bud quickly, CCP seem to let it roll. "No smoke without fire" your dealing with an fairly intelegent player base (generaly). um spelt intelligent? :) i hope we dont lose everyone over these problems, but what kinda games are there to run to. EVE is one of a kind, and other games just dont cut it
wuditamao	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:47:00 - [3050] Originally by: Luv Trucker Whole thread is just goonies being like a lot of crybabies who wants attentions. If were really wanting to fix things not ruin game goonies would just convo CCP peeps on instant messenger instead of starting such a thread. Goonies must adapt to instant messenger or else they ruin this very good game. qft!!!!!
Dr Cron Northern Lights Number 5	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:47:00 - [3051] Why have power if you cant abuse it?
Pappadope	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:48:00 - [3052] Originally by: Noogy Originally by: Garia666 Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post. /signed i fully agree This. Such a good product, such a bad management. Not the first time, not the last :( /signed
Cazziel Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:48:00 - [3053] Account closed. Thanks for your time CCP.
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:49:00 - [3054] Arkanon, i think it's time for some heads to roll; gm, player and dev alike. This list of heads includes but is not limited to: T20, admiral crajdasjfgsdkjfsd, orange species, sharkbait and the various other players/devs that have direct contact with the opposed parties to manipulate the way EVE's sandbox evolves. I have no problem with EVE devs having various friends, or even gamer friends, i do have a problem however when the friends of devs are eve players that, due to their buddy buddy relationship, can get the devs to act in their interest, to boost the players e-peen or whatever. Things like "checking the contents of a pos to see what is building" and all that bull can be done after downtime or on the test server and supervised by other GM's, also the one to be given such an assignment should be chosen at random from the GM's in charge to reduce suspicion of ill doing ( thus if a gm/dev has no assignment he should have no developer powers whatsoever! ). There's no need for GM's/DEV's to have the ability to spy/manipulate game contents. These abilities the DEV's/GM's have serve nothing but take down all that 'player driven sandbox' and turn it into a game based on nepotism/favorism. T20 screwed with the playerbase, why the hell is he still a developing staff member/someone with GM powers? Please reassign him to tea boy/door man. Same for all the other players / gm's / dev's that have been accused of being involved with breaking the 'sandbox' , they should be banned until the allegations are given a proper and professional investigation followed by a clear resoning of the investigations conclusions. Also, all the wrong doing that various dev's/gm's may have caused in havor of some players should be fixed, examples would be: removing the profit those T2BPO's gave to BoB, banning of the players/devs/gms that knew of the plot and kept it a secret and so on... snip - Image not appropriate for eve-o forums - hutch true amarr tank shields!
Anehra X-Fire	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:50:00 - [3055] Originally by: nickky01 Edited by: nickky01 on 27/05/2007 02:40:43 not from me: Originally by: Malloc Memrel snip from here I have similar experiences from being GM in an (now closed, but anyway) asian MMO. We had different divisions and levels, but we always had our GM characters not interact with players - in a case we found a GM had done and he was promptly fired and his GM character deleted - but he got to keep his other, normal, account. Why CCP are using covering things up and not giving all necessary information is beyond me. What comes to mind is that this is generally common by fascist regimes or in corrupt environments to 'silence' people - why would that happen if CCP really likes this game and is serious about keeping it alive, for the players? If they want a good reputation and to create future games? Their silence - and ways of silencing people - just tells me they really are involved and that they only care about benefiting their friends, rather than taking their job seriously. Yesterday I was guttered and thought "ah well, the game is still great, who cares what alliance rules what" but after considering their behaviour towards the community I seriously wonder why I should PAY them for this? In fact, in my opinion the only way they can correct this is by doing following steps: * come perfectly clean with everything, involving all information they discover when investigating the matter * give players a period of time of free play, as they failed to deliver what is the core and strong side of eve: the political, economical and structural side where players actions really affects the game (which ironicly, seems not to be the case, but a fascade) * realise that a dev and a GM is two different things.. devs watch, create and alter, GM's help players with issues like broken missions, resolve bugs, report to devs. GM's shouldn't have any power more than necessary, and devs should never play a part in politics or economics, they can very well be bystanders and get the same effect from playing it. No devs nor GM's should have contact with players and the player knowing their role, they need to be separised or favourism will be an effect. Having devs/GM's on MSN? That's outrageous. I would've been fired if my company would've found out I did something like that! Their current behaviour makes no sense at all for an ex-GM that lived and breathed "customer service". No more lies and coverups, come clean, give me a reason to keep my subscription open.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:50:00 - [3056] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley It's amazing what the human mind can make up from thin-air. You know, nowhere has anything you've written above been stated and not a single shred of proof. There's not a shred of proof of BoB having out of game contacts with devs and using that ability to circumvent petitions? Really? Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Originally by: D'Artagnan Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it.
noob123	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:52:00 - [3057] [18:47:59] CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar > be safe.. enjoy killing some D2
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:52:00 - [3058] Edited by: MissileRus on 27/05/2007 15:51:27 me ate F5 button --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
hendo001 Caldari Guardian Heroes Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:58:00 - [3059] Originally by: hendo001 I've been reading some of the replies in this thread but it seems there is too much bickering and acusations flying around. Would ccp create an independant body of some of the eve players and ask them to review the evidence and aligations and decide what is fact and fiction, much like a real jury. I think this would help to resolve alot of the arguments and bickering. Also would it be possible for some more information about what happened, be it released from ccp and the corps directly involved. As I have already said, an independant enquiry would be the way to go on this. Also I think many people are overreacting and do not have the facts at hand, mostly people are going OTT with hearsay and rumors. I also think people should calm down a little and wait to see what happens.
Iron McFly CHAF tech	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:59:00 - [3060] A bad employee is one thing, bad policy is another. CCP has developers close to players by design, maybe too close. Fact - EVE News item: "Hilmar Petursson, Chief Executive Officer of CCP Games, will deliver a keynote address at Nordic Game 2007 entitled, ôTao of Virtual World Societiesö. "Petursson will discuss the importance of achieving a balance between the development teamÆs vision and the communityÆs desires, resulting in successful game design and game play." EVE is by design not WoW, where "there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts - there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire." Flame on WoW all you want - but in the game between MMOGs - EVE Online policy is flawed and inferior on this matter. And that EVE is un-sharded makes it worse - no place for players to run. They either play the one EVE or consider quitting (after extended forum bombing in hopes CCP gets this corrected). EVE prides itself on Superior PvP and Depth, with less PvE and "No End Game." Ironically these are exactly what is hurt by even the suspition of collusion. CareBears and casual 3-6 month tried-the-game players might just think this is amusing, but it's not so funny for "One Shard Forever or I'll Quit" crowd. I see romantic posts longing for EVE of 2003 an 4, when the battles were in the game and the forums were of one mind towards a better, even the best, MMORPG ever. To get back there we need players with sportsmanship, even thieves and pirates of some honor, who want to win but not ruin the game. Anyone and everyone in CCP, Goons, BoB, Aegis Militia need open the logs, get the truth out, and get the people and policy fixed.
Lissaee	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:59:00 - [3061] Pretending that it is all fine and ok to have personal contact true MSN with devs and so on is plain ignorend. That is not right what makes the guys in BOB more and beter then the other players of eve? why do we have to make petitions that at times take hours even days before they get answerd? Are they beter then us? my answer is clear on that, They are not beter then the rest of us stop this favoritism its time it ends. and yes it is favoritism.
Boogerbuster	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:59:00 - [3062] You can't help but wonder if the top leaders of Bob(Bod) and the dev's/GM's of CCP are not in a vent channel or msn chat right now trying to decide how to best cover this up and sweep it under the rug. Then they can get on with their rigging ogf the game for their and their buddies pleasure.
Grader	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:01:00 - [3063] Originally by: Luv Trucker Whole thread is just goonies being like a lot of crybabies who wants attentions. If were really wanting to fix things not ruin game goonies would just convo CCP peeps on instant messenger instead of starting such a thread. Goonies must adapt to instant messenger or else they ruin this very good game. this is th4e main problem,,, for four years we say they cheat... ppl go hey just do this u can win. no u cant win.. < scenario> lets all suicide on bobs titan... ok maybe 3000 of us can do it. 15 jumps before targte system 5 coalition alone in system trying to advance,,, u hit black wall of lag..for 2 hours... ur killed by rats. devs send ur petition back< after 5 days> and says nothing was wrtong to bad for ur loss. did bob msn devs say to shut down all systems within 20 jumps of home? not 750 in those systems. im talking 5 to 10 ppl. we cyno in... only way< after getting suiociude cynoers in advance for a week or 2> it only way in system,, 300 of bob kill off 100;s of coalitioon dreads, can we believe that ccp wasnt invoolved? no. can we make any tactic without fi9rst thinking of dev involvement... no, and then the sheep go,,, hey jusyt do this or that u can win..no u cant. heyt sheep.. how boput u believe ur wife is cheating on u... the friend of urs is stealing from the till. srry imn american we travel around the world to destroy wannabes who cheat.. even if we just think ur a cheater were coming. now for the coalition , they are fighting against true odds. they are han solo , fighting cheaTERS TRICKERY ETC,, AND ALL THE TIME TRYING TO DO IT legal and fair. and plz quit saying to just do this or that and u can beat bob and there snowball of juveniles who run to the friends house with the cheat code.. coalition has won . as an american its all just sad, i am just happy and thankfull i was lucky enought to be born american where this isnt common.. i guess in iceland and some european countrys this is common place and its sad . are we funding alquida in some way by playing this game? is this a terrorist attack? the common thing in america at the momment , the theme is, why does noone in the world take responsibility for anyhting? as i said im american and southern at that, we are so pridefuull even if i screw up im ready to stand up and take the blame,, its my fault dammmit l;ets get iut fixed.. the rest of the world? ice;landers it seems for sure? its not me,, my lil brother did it. pretty pathetic . slap ur mothers plz they failed. criminals , are criminals, and yes fan fest? what faNS DO ccp have? plz call it eve fest and dont freaking show up. for one if im there yes i would puch a dev,,, for all i know he's t20. u have done nothing sell ur comapany to some us based organization plz. and im sure wow lotr and other mmorpgs are calling u the same thing,, and are probbaly going to enact some laws to prevent fledgling cheater complanys from producing games that will make there nichs look corrupt. and yes u are corrupt. total and complete, oh im hitting blackjk wall of lag... im only 55 jumps from bobs home , alone in system and i have hit the ccp bob defence again? shoot only 6 more years and 50 jumps ill make to there home base.
Stradiot Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:02:00 - [3064] Edited by: Stradiot on 27/05/2007 16:01:32 Originally by: Boogerbuster You can't help but wonder if the top leaders of Bob(Bod) and the dev's/GM's of CCP are not in a vent channel or msn chat right now trying to decide how to best cover this up and sweep it under the rug. Then they can get on with their rigging ogf the game for their and their buddies pleasure. the irony if that were true sadly, it's not too far fetched
Monde Gallente TOG Empire	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:03:00 - [3065] What is starting to worry me (and I am not the only one) is that this sort of "problem" is becoming more and more common in Eve. While I understand why CCP would like to keep a certain amount of control of their product it is startng to become a little controlled. All of these "scandals" are starting to hurt Eve and it will not be long before the impact starts being felt in player numbers. I am not a BoB or Eve Fanboi or even a basher but I do work in the online space and Eve's liquidity is going to fall and then there will be problems. This game is meant to be an open sandbox game. If CCP is controlling the events as claimed then it is not a sandbox and is a waste of money. The question that comes to mind is if this is coming out what is happening behind the scene? What don't we know? CCP has lost a lot of trust and is going to continue to do so until they can step up and do what they claim. From what I see is that this is NOT a sandbox game, it IS controlled and CCP DOES take steps to influence the world and the outcome. Firing Dev's is not the answer as either they are doing what they were told or there is a problem internally that needs to be corrected. These are my thoughts so flame if you want but I am seriously worried.
Agmar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:04:00 - [3066] 3,548th in a BoB thread.... Pupppppppppppppppppppy. Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
OverKill Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:05:00 - [3067] Originally by: Mr Friendly Perhaps you could tell me why you are content to do so? I'm serious and I actually am curious. We don't have the same intuitions, and your point about 'imagination' isn't really expressed fully. I had this huge long post all done up, quoting your various parts and responding to those that required it but this damn forum software is very limited with the amount of space that it allows you to use (characters left and all that blah blah). For that, I appologize as your post was well thought out and deserving of a response. So if you do want to discuss this contact me ingame and I'll give you an email address that we can discuss further. As for the last bit... My imagination? Sure, I'll express further. I enjoy making ships, I enjoy selling ships to players who wish to use my services, I enjoy the organizational aspects of running a Corporation, I enjoy the interaction with both clients and associate corp members, I enjoy researching new technologies, I enjoy fighting when I have to and leading groups of men into battle (win or lose), I enjoy the hunt of a lone pirate, I enjoy the achievement of skill progression beyond 52m sp, I enjoy having major players in the universal wars approach HDY and negotiate for ship supply deals, I enjoy all the facets that make EVE what it is for me, a great and ever evolving experience. Someone cheating doesn't detract from any of this, at least not for me. You see, whether the developers give you 10 titans with which to kill 2,000 ships I know that they aren't my ships, nor that of my Corporation. I know that someone is going to be looking to purchase no vessels and I know that I supply them. For me, I find out what the system is and I work with it. "He who walks in the river downstream will walk a lot further than he who attempts to walk against the current" and all that sort of jazz. - Regards, OverKill Building With Tomorrow's Technology, Today! Hadean Drive Yards
Fabienne Runestar Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:06:00 - [3068] Wow We're back at this again so soon after the last scandal. This thread has gone 100+ pages just like the last one. I was vocal then and I will be vocal now. CCP You are digging yourself a very large grave, some 100k players deep if you do not respond to these allegation. Even more so if you continue to only partially address them as you've done in the past. I was and still am very upset at T20 for his blatant abuse of his responsibilities to this game and to the company he works for. Your slap on the wrist was an insult but I believe in the simple principle of shame me once shame on you. Shame me twice, I'm a fool. Well you've done it again, your IA division is a farce. Your commitment to fair play as long as it doesn't involve a developer is absurd. I should have quit a long time ago, but I haven't. Not because of anything that CCP has done, but because of my commitment to my corpmates. They are my friends, and my associates. I'd no sooner leave then than I would leave a brother in arms wounded on the battlefield. So shape up CCP, come clean, stop your employees from being louses and cheats, and you will make me very happy. Until I see that starting t be done you can count on 30 dollars a amonth less in revenue very soon. --- Eve has taught me that Evil will always triumph, because Good is mysteriously unable to log in to defend it's assets.
An Anarchyyt	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:07:00 - [3069] Originally by: Butzewutze 1. Poor and often unlogic game design. 100 Billion pages, and this sentence made me laugh.
Fuglife The Movement	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:08:00 - [3070] http://www.darkfallonline.com/ I know Welsh Wizard! 3rd Best pvper in Eve
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:10:00 - [3071] Edited by: Andrue on 27/05/2007 16:09:30 Originally by: Fayed Nwani We are the whiniest gaming community on the internet. So whiny, in fact, that our whining gets us on Slashdot. All these arguments for this huge conspiracy forget about one unavoidable problem: CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. If someone asked me if I'd rather backstab an online enemy, or say, have a place to sleep at night, my choice would be a roof over my head, especially if I was living in Iceland. My favorite part of this entire thread, though, was when everyone started aggrandizing the guy pretending to be a former Blizzard employee. "Bottom line, CCP doesn't care." A penetrating analysis by an industry insider. Pointless ranting, you say? No, surely not, he worked for Blizzard! Qft. It just shows how immature a fair %ge of the playerbase and (quelle surprise) how out of touch with reality they are. Some of them seem to actually think that CCP and its staff would risk their jobs, their company and their personal freedom (people go to jail for corporate sabotage and if there are share holders the directors go to jail for lack of due care) just to..what..blow up some virtual objects? An alternative explanation is:A member of ISD screwed up, refused to admit it, got taken to task and ultimately sacked. They are so disgruntled over it that they write an inflamatory letter in an attempt to damage the company. At the end of that diatribe we see an admission that the writer doesn't care about NDAs. No way in hell am I going to trust someone with that attitude. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] *This is not* a signature**
troubaduor	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:13:00 - [3072]
Earthan Gallente The Absolutely Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:14:00 - [3073] Im not decided on my final judgement and i will listen to what ccp says , but i do see it as fishy , specially that the petition got deleted/ - Killing Eve bullies all over the galaxy
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:16:00 - [3074] Originally by: Andrue It just shows how immature a fair %ge of the playerbase and (quelle surprise) how out of touch with reality they are. Much like your posting.
Anille Kole Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:18:00 - [3075] Edited by: Anille Kole on 27/05/2007 16:18:34 Well, the issue is that this whole thing is hysteria. People are ignoring the facts in front of them to try to scapegoat the whole issue. Blame BoB! Blame CCP! Blame Guristas! ...but the fact of the matter is: we don't have all of the facts. We know a few things, sure, that Sharkbait joined the corp, for instance. However, did he do anything? Not as far as I know. Who deleted the petition? Someone who thought it was probably just a joke? I mean, why believe someone when they tell you that a dev has joined their corp without a reason? And in the case of the ISD guy, why is it such a big deal? From what I've gathered on the page declaring it(with a healthy bias for the people whining in this thread), A) CCP likes to bias events so that they follow their planned arcs. A big deal? Not really. I know I'd want to bias things a bit instead of having to drastically rewrite planned events so that an entire story isn't wrecked because the CEO of the corp the event relied on was sick that day. B) An ISD member was fired after he started talking in local with a BoB guy. It's interesting to note that the original letter says that the ISD member only said "Um...no" in local, however the IRC logs posted from the ISD IRC say that they basically started an e-peen fight with the BoB member(who was also being an idiot). Pretty nice of them to include that little detail on their page, considering it derails their whole argument. It's to my understanding that anyone in power is responsible for their actions, and that if an ISD member starts flaming in local, they're generally not long for the group. I mean, sure, there's probably SOME bias, but would it really have mattered any if they got booted out from an MSN chat or a petition? I've also heard there's a third one, but I'm really not reading through 120 pages to find it.
Skrypt Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:18:00 - [3076] Originally by: Agmar 3,548th in a BoB thread.... Pupppppppppppppppppppy. dawg, yo hood is weak. "I know. I know you can fight. But it's our wits that make us men." ~ Malcolm Wallace (Braveheart)
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:21:00 - [3077] The ISD guy had nothing to do whatsoever with Goonswarm. As a matter of fact Aegis Milita (the ISD guy) is likely KOS to Goonies due to Goonies "free firing" policies in space. and...to actually craft a defense like "they know how bad it would be form them if they did it-so therefor they must not have"..is rather silly dont ya think? Things we know as FACT: They (ccp) did have an employee that spawned t2 bpo's for BOB. This person was forced to issue an apology and still works for ccp. BOB and the leaders of BOB share a comfortable relationship in and out of game as evidenced by the fact that they share MSN addresses and chat about things that "friends" talk about out of the game. A CCP employee took a director role in a corp that is currently at war with BOB. The employee never notified the corp as to why this happened. These appear to be rather factual based on the evidence provided as well as the BOB guys bragging about thier relationship and CCP admitting to the t2 bpo scam.
Tai Paktu	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:22:00 - [3078] Wow, 119 pages. I promised myself upon first hearing of the "BoD" drama when I started playing that I'd keep out of it buy since this threadnaught seems to have gone into siege mode, I'll drop my two cents. First off, it needs to be said that without question EvE is the best game I've ever played and that I plan to continue playing into the forseeable future. Second, CCP: I feel you on this. I help run an annual concert of between 10,000 and 12,000 people. There are some things that customers don't get to know, regardless of what they think they're entitled to. NDAs, situations beyond the control of organisers etc. are not things that stay in the family, so to speak. THAT BEING SAID, an attempt needs to be made to clear up allegations of misconduct (i.e. an Internal Affairs investigation). Now, I've read the open letter and the logs provided. Some people will say that there's no way to prove the CCP I.A. investigation happened or is being straight with us. That coin has two sides so if you want to go all conspiracy theorist on this, there's really no way to prove the logs from the letter are legit except to TRUST the person posting. CCP still has my trust, flame me if you feel the need to but I'm willing to trust this investigation and will be anticipating the report being published. I understand Devs need friends too but I agree with what's been said by a lot of people before me, GM's and Devs should really be invisible and intangible in Game. I'm hoping the next patch will have some sort of mechanism (I'm not a programmer so forgive me if I blow this) to limit or prevent Dev powers from being utilised in a manner that is less than absolutley necessary. I've got no problem with a BoB dread pilot chatting to an ISD admiral OOG but if it can be shown that that managed to acelerate his petition, I'm (as your folks used to say)dissapointed. Finally, CCP you're asking us for trust and I'm willing to trust you. But I think you need to trust your employees and your volunteers. People of character who are willing to help you for no pay are few and far between and when you find them it's vital to look after them. My only suggestion is to trust that ISD reporter. If he says he didn't bump that dread then I'm inclined to believe him. Anyways, those are my thoughts adding to this now thread-titan. Again, I plan to keep on playing this game and to keep on enjoying it. If this makes my suggesion toothless than so be it. Fly safe kids and thanks for the kickass game CCP. Tai This post reflects my personal views and not the views of my corp or my alliance. Feel free to chat with me ingame if yo feel the need to my opinions further.
Vrabac Amarr Shadowed Souls	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:25:00 - [3079] Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 27/05/2007 16:09:30 Originally by: Fayed Nwani We are the whiniest gaming community on the internet. So whiny, in fact, that our whining gets us on Slashdot. All these arguments for this huge conspiracy forget about one unavoidable problem: CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. If someone asked me if I'd rather backstab an online enemy, or say, have a place to sleep at night, my choice would be a roof over my head, especially if I was living in Iceland. My favorite part of this entire thread, though, was when everyone started aggrandizing the guy pretending to be a former Blizzard employee. "Bottom line, CCP doesn't care." A penetrating analysis by an industry insider. Pointless ranting, you say? No, surely not, he worked for Blizzard! Qft. You forget humans dont behave based on logic or maximum gain, we aren't machines. People do mistakes, hell they do big BIG mistakes, that certainly dont lead to their direct welfare.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:25:00 - [3080] Originally by: Andrue It just shows how immature a fair %ge of the playerbase and (quelle surprise) how out of touch with reality they are. CCP can blame themselves for that. They started nerfing things all over tailoring the game for ignorant wow kids such as yourself. 100000 roxor sang at fanfest, I bet you their dream is to sing 200000.....but at what price? -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
Skrewface	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:27:00 - [3081] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Creh Ester And here's the catch: If players have such connections to GMs, developers or any CCP employee, it's certain - absolutely 100% certain - that they will be regularly used for cheating! No doubt whatsoever! Please don't insult me with any crap about ethics of high standard, "Internal Affairs" or other nonsense. If you want to safe guard the game you must implement a system of firewalls between players and game company employees. CCP have done nothing of the sort. So, let's just ban anyone who has any CCP employee or anyone affiliated with CCP on their MSN contact list, because they are all automatically cheats? You know what, go for it. And, let's also make a list of all the people who got banned. Sure some BoB may get banned, and that would be a shame, but if you imagine that only BoB names would be on that list then you are clearly deluded. Some of the biggest names in Eve, and the leaders of more than one alliance would be banned. Still, it is for the best, right? Yeah, do it. I'll still be here. Erm...the point is that his 'friendship' with a CCP employee enabled him to by pass the usual rules that everybody else has to abide by. If other people in other alliances are using their friendship with CCP employees to get things done ,'Ingame' as it where,then they should be stopped immediately. How do ISD members feel knowing that if they upset an alliance that a person in said alliance can get them fired?
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:27:00 - [3082] Edited by: Fred0 on 27/05/2007 16:27:27 Originally by: Fayed Nwani CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. "He would never do that because he is not that stupid" is an argument that's been refuted too many times yet it crops up. Multi-millionaires shoplift. Get it into your head that these people do not act logically. They cheat because they can. Orange Species is one of less than 10 people in this game in a titan, everything he does is scrutinized. Yet he seemingly wants the fast lane instead of petitions. Oh and besides so far there's been no reason to think they can't have both. A job and an eve-life as demigods.
2Bad4Ux2	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:28:00 - [3083] If the dev was just doing his job then how come he didn't give any answer or indication as to what he was doing? Secondly, CCP ignored petitions (deleted completely from the allogations) instead of simply saying that this was the case or..."we are going to look into this matter" or something. The shadiness of the responses to this matter initially strongly hint there are an "inside few" running their own agenda in CCP.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:29:00 - [3084] Originally by: Andrue All these arguments for this huge conspiracy forget about one unavoidable problem: CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. Now this is just patently untrue. T20? That rattlesnake GM?
Khorian Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:30:00 - [3085] Edited by: Khorian on 27/05/2007 16:30:00 The real shocking thing about this thread is how many people blatantly generalize. They say BoB(BoD) and CCP, and are actually talking about maybe one or two individuals. It is also shocking to see how people can argue about this for 120 pages without any hard facts or proof or any new statement from CCP about the outcome of the investigations. People are saying they cant trust CCP anymore if no heads roll. Roll heads for what? They are investigating, and if they find people guilty of hady stuff they will fire/ban them in their own best interest. If they can't find anyone guilty they will fire/ban no one, and people will go postal about it because they want to see heads rolling because... well because they are upset... about ... you know... something? People talking about democracies here and constitutional states, where no one is found guilty until his guilt is proven. You are the mob with forks and torches, screaming for heads, even though we don't know anything about the allegations really. How can you form a valid opinion without knowing any facts? I will wait till CCP makes a statement about their findings in these matters, then form an opinion, and I suggest everyone do the same, because right now we are harming our favourite game even if its unclear whats fact and whats fiction. And that is the exact reason why some people here think that this public witchhunt is the wrong way to go about this. It has nothing to do with trying to cover up anything. It's simply because this right here, is tarnishing CCP and EvE without any reason. Like that guy that was accused of being a child molestor and killed in a revenge act, before he was found not guilty. It's wrong. Please calm down. --------------------- This is the signature
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:31:00 - [3086] Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: Avon No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. It amazes me to see this kind of . . . "thinking" being done by posters like Avon. Actually, let us say that Goons did NOT follow proper channels for bringing this to the public. For example, let us say they did not email IA first, or send a petition at all. Well, fine, let's say this for the sake of discussion. It does NOT logically follow that the charges made are wrong, incorrect, or dismissable. It just means Goons should have been more patient. And given CCp's prior handling of issues, it may have ended up the same way anyway, albeit further down the road. Can't you even see the hypocrisy of what you have typed there? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Rakshasa Taisab	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:31:00 - [3087] Originally by: Andrue It just shows how immature a fair %ge of the playerbase and (quelle surprise) how out of touch with reality they are. Some of them seem to actually think that CCP and its staff would risk their jobs, their company and their personal freedom (people go to jail for corporate sabotage and if there are share holders the directors go to jail for lack of due care) just to..what..blow up some virtual objects? It has already happened, even been admitted to have happened. Except there was not jail time nor firings. It is not just the cheating that might or might not have happened that is the main problem. If you can't put in place the proper policies and enforce them, these accusations will re-appear at regular intervals and people will think them plausible... Because they are. Make them implausible, and they'll be relegated to the dark corners of the internet where believers of UFO abductions and magnetic healing live.
El Chico Minmatar BlackHole Entertainment	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:33:00 - [3088] Originally by: Fred0 Edited by: Fred0 on 27/05/2007 16:27:27 Originally by: Fayed Nwani CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. "He would never do that because he is not that stupid" is an argument that's been refuted too many times yet it crops up. Multi-millionaires shoplift. Get it into your head that these people do not act logically. They cheat because they can. Orange Species is one of less than 10 people in this game in a titan, everything he does is scrutinized. Yet he seemingly wants the fast lane instead of petitions. Oh and besides so far there's been no reason to think they can't have both. A job and an eve-life as demigods. qft
Luv Trucker	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:33:00 - [3089] Originally by: Khorian The real shocking thing about this thread is how many people blatantly generalize. They say BoB(BoD) and CCP, and are actually talking about maybe one or two individuals. It is also shocking to see how people can argue about this for 120 pages without any hard facts or proof or any new statement from CCP about the outcome of the investigations. People are saying they cant trust CCP anymore if no heads roll. Roll heads for what? They are investigating, and if they find people guilty of hady stuff they will fire them in their own best interest. If they can't find anyone guilty they will fire no one, and people will go postal about it because they want to see heads rolling because... well because they are upset... about ... you know... something? People talking about democracies here and constitutional states, where no one is found guilty until his guilt is proven. You are the mob with forks and torches, screaming for heads, even though we don't know anything about the allegations really. How can you form a valid opinion without knowing any facts? I will wait till CCP makes a statement about their findings in these matters, then form an opinion, and I suggest everyone do the same, because right now we are harming our favourite game even if its unclear whats fact and whats fiction. And that is the exact reason why some people here think that this public witchhunt is the wrong way to go about this. It has nothing to do with trying to cover up anything. It's simply because this right here, is tarnishing CCP and EvE without any reason. Like that guy that was accused of being a child molestor and killed in a revenge act, before he was found not guilty. It's wrong. Please calm down. yes i am agreeing with this very much. all should wait for after ccp statement to realize that bob and ccp are not doing any wrong.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:33:00 - [3090] Originally by: Luv Trucker Whole thread is just goonies being like a lot of crybabies who wants attentions. If were really wanting to fix things not ruin game goonies would just convo CCP peeps on instant messenger instead of starting such a thread. Goonies must adapt to instant messenger or else they ruin this very good game. Are you high? The Goonies dont destroy the Game, CCP does. They have learned nothing from the last corruption incident. I am, for myself are very glad and thankfull that they brought this allegations and the behavior after first apperance of it to the light. Nothing with changes and transparency like told after last time! http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=423 The fact that people got banned for talking about allegations, speaks for itself. I decided for me that i will not longer pay for a corrupt game.
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:34:00 - [3091] Originally by: Avon Can't you even see the hypocrisy of what you have typed there? I know you're not in RKK but really your alliance should be the last to discuss hypocrisy here.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:34:00 - [3092] Originally by: Khorian People talking about democracies here and constitutional states, where no one is found guilty until his guilt is proven. Objection! Your honor, the accused has more than once been convicted for unfair play.The defence is merely trying to create a smokescreen -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:35:00 - [3093] Originally by: Fuglife a link yea waiting for that too, and so many others.. it "will" kinda suck though as animations arent very good dwarfs look like **** etc.. nice with "skill based" and loot though --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:35:00 - [3094] Edited by: Deus Ex''Machina on 27/05/2007 16:35:37 Originally by: Andrue All these arguments for this huge conspiracy forget about one unavoidable problem: CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. Yes, the problem is that T20 guy is still an employee, he did not risk his job one second helping BoB and by help i mean 'manipulating the sandbox' or 'cheating' in their favor, Andrue. Furthermore they still think their words hold value in anyones eyes except for the various BoB lackeys that still pollute these forums with shameless rambling. snip - Image not appropriate for eve-o forums - hutch true amarr tank shields!
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:35:00 - [3095] Originally by: Khorian Edited by: Khorian on 27/05/2007 16:30:00 The real shocking thing about this thread is how many people blatantly generalize. They say BoB(BoD) and CCP, and are actually talking about maybe one or two individuals. It is also shocking to see how people can argue about this for 120 pages without any hard facts or proof or any new statement from CCP about the outcome of the investigations. People are saying they cant trust CCP anymore if no heads roll. Roll heads for what? They are investigating, and if they find people guilty of hady stuff they will fire/ban them in their own best interest. If they can't find anyone guilty they will fire/ban no one, and people will go postal about it because they want to see heads rolling because... well because they are upset... about ... you know... something? People talking about democracies here and constitutional states, where no one is found guilty until his guilt is proven. You are the mob with forks and torches, screaming for heads, even though we don't know anything about the allegations really. How can you form a valid opinion without knowing any facts? I will wait till CCP makes a statement about their findings in these matters, then form an opinion, and I suggest everyone do the same, because right now we are harming our favourite game even if its unclear whats fact and whats fiction. And that is the exact reason why some people here think that this public witchhunt is the wrong way to go about this. It has nothing to do with trying to cover up anything. It's simply because this right here, is tarnishing CCP and EvE without any reason. Like that guy that was accused of being a child molestor and killed in a revenge act, before he was found not guilty. It's wrong. Please calm down. If you truly cared about the game (as you profess) you and yours would shut down your private channels to the Devs. Pay reparations for the billions earned from the illegally spawned bpo's. Perhaps even post some of your own internal chat logs-designed to clear the air and put this controversy behind us. BOB (the center of much of this) can likely do almost as much as CCP to prove that much of what is occuring is unfounded and not true-assuming thats the case. Nobody would like to see a clean game more then me and those posting here. What many of us fear is what happened last time. A slap on the wrist to the CCP employee, threads deleted. Nothing at all done in game...the community was simply instructed to shut up and move on.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:35:00 - [3096] Originally by: Andrue Some of them seem to actually think that CCP and its staff would risk their jobs, their company and their personal freedom (people go to jail for corporate sabotage and if there are share holders the directors go to jail for lack of due care) just to..what..blow up some virtual objects? One reason we might jump to this outrageous assumption is because we know for a fact that they have done so in the past. That and the fact that one of the allegations has already been verified by BoB members in this very thread.
Abdullah al'Weyouni	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:36:00 - [3097] Originally by: Mr Friendly Originally by: Abdullah al'Weyouni Why can't they just ban that goddam Goonswarm scum and delete the alliance and all the assets of those worthless piece of ****s?? No one likes those childsh mofos anyway, and that would solve all probs at once. inspiring and informative. please, never post again. Make me, nooblet. Bring it on!
Jason C	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:38:00 - [3098] Originally by: Tai Paktu Edited by: Tai Paktu on 27/05/2007 16:26:22 Edit for spelling Wow, 119 pages. I promised myself upon first hearing of the "BoD" drama when I started playing that I'd keep out of it but since this threadnaught seems to have gone into siege mode, I'll drop my two cents. First off, it needs to be said that without question EvE is the best game I've ever played and that I plan to continue playing into the forseeable future. Second, CCP: I feel you on this. I help run an annual concert of between 10,000 and 12,000 people. There are some things that customers don't get to know, regardless of what they think they're entitled to. NDAs, situations beyond the control of organisers etc. are not things that stay in the family, so to speak. THAT BEING SAID, an attempt needs to be made to clear up allegations of misconduct (i.e. an Internal Affairs investigation). Now, I've read the open letter and the logs provided. Some people will say that there's no way to prove the CCP I.A. investigation happened or is being straight with us. That coin has two sides so if you want to go all conspiracy theorist on this, there's really no way to prove the logs from the letter are legit except to TRUST the person posting. CCP still has my trust, flame me if you feel the need to but I'm willing to trust this investigation and will be anticipating the report being published. I understand Devs need friends too but I agree with what's been said by a lot of people before me, GM's and Devs should really be invisible and intangible in Game. I'm hoping the next patch will have some sort of mechanism (I'm not a programmer so forgive me if I blow this) to limit or prevent Dev powers from being utilised in a manner that is less than absolutley necessary. I've got no problem with a BoB dread pilot chatting to an ISD admiral OOG but if it can be shown that that managed to acelerate his petition, I'm (as your folks used to say)dissapointed. Finally, CCP you're asking us for trust and I'm willing to trust you. But I think you need to trust your employees and your volunteers. People of character who are willing to help you for no pay are few and far between and when you find them it's vital to look after them. My only suggestion is to trust that ISD reporter. If he says he didn't bump that dread then I'm inclined to believe him. Anyways, those are my thoughts adding to this now thread-titan. Again, I plan to keep on playing this game and to keep on enjoying it. If this makes my suggesion toothless than so be it. Fly safe kids and thanks for the kickass game CCP. Tai This post reflects my personal views and not the views of my corp or my alliance. Feel free to chat with me ingame if yo feel the need to my opinions further. And there I was trying to formulate something diplomatic and intelligent. Good job, Tai. People need to relax a moment and get perspective. It's a game. Very in depth to be sure but it's a game. I really doubt CCP has a corporate policy to "poison the well". This game is their livelyhood and it's a nice way to make a living I'm sure. So everybody chill and let them work through the logs. I've always regarded EVE as a work in progress... we ALL need to learn and adapt.
Sanguinnus	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:40:00 - [3099] I recall readsing an amusing thread not so long ago about a refining array malfunctioning at a pos. When the array was unanchored it started speeding away from the pos on its own, obviously bugged. A petition was filed and a gm came in exploded the array and spawned them a new one. At no point in the thread was the GM entering the corp mentioned, why does one bugged pos need a GM to fix it yet another doesn't?
Khorian Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:40:00 - [3100] Originally by: Vantras If you truly cared about the game (as you profess) you and yours would shut down your private channels to the Devs. Pay reparations for the billions earned from the illegally spawned bpo's. Perhaps even post some of your own internal chat logs-designed to clear the air and put this controversy behind us. BOB (the center of much of this) can likely do almost as much as CCP to prove that much of what is occuring is unfounded and not true-assuming thats the case. Nobody would like to see a clean game more then me and those posting here. What many of us fear is what happened last time. A slap on the wrist to the CCP employee, threads deleted. Nothing at all done in game...the community was simply instructed to shut up and move on. I don't have any channels to Devs or recieved billions through spawned BPOs. That was part of what I said. I can safely say that i am 100% innocent. --------------------- This is the signature
Digital Solaris	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:41:00 - [3101] What I find absurd about this story is the fact that this is not the first time Goon makes such accusations toward CCP and BoB. And since this obviously has a desired effect on the community and the outsiders of EVE, putting both CCP and EVE in a very negative perspective, they (Goon) really have no reason to stop as it has a devastating effect. In my truthful opinion, the so-called evidence that Goons has provided for us looks to be more of a propaganda coup, written in that way that Goons will be portrayed as a reapeatedly raped victim, that desperately cries for attention to be saved from the brutal and callous minds of CCP and BoB. Do I honestly give a flying ****? No, I don't, because I can log out from the game, and walk out the door for a walk. -- Forum mentality is really like sex, everybody likes to be on top! Me too... although, I prefer doggy.
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:42:00 - [3102] Originally by: Khorian I don't have any channels to Devs or recieved billions through spawned BPOs. That was part of what I said. I can safely say that i am 100% innocent. Can you say the same for your leadership?
Scorched Evil The Silent Rage	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:42:00 - [3103] Look on the bright side here, at least you're going to get another 500 ISD applications from people who actually really care about how CCP operates and want to help this game...
Obron Mettlo Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:42:00 - [3104] Edited by: Obron Mettlo on 27/05/2007 16:41:32 Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Andrue All these arguments for this huge conspiracy forget about one unavoidable problem: CCP Employees care more about their jobs than the in-game shenanigans you're accusing them of. Now this is just patently untrue. T20? That rattlesnake GM? This is all well and good, but none of it comes down someone's job versus their in-game personna. Now, when LeMonde was given the choice to keep his job or give up Vegeta (TOASP) and his mothership...well, have you seen LeMonde since the last alliance tournament?
Judas Lonestar Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:43:00 - [3105] Money talks. Want to make a difference? Want to see change? Quit. CCP DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOU. They care about your wallet. Close your wallet if you want change. Sucks doesnt it? Put up with a fundamentally flawed game or dont play a game you enjoy. Whining wont accomplish anything, and everyone knows it. Find a new space game. Freelancer or something. Either that or accept the fact BOB cheats, accept the fact DEV's steer the game for their own personal pleasure and goals and play the game.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:43:00 - [3106] Originally by: Digital Solaris What I find absurd about this story is the fact that this is not the first time Goon makes such accusations toward CCP and BoB. Remind me what happened last time.
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:44:00 - [3107] Originally by: Digital Solaris What I find absurd about this story is the fact that this is not the first time Goon makes such accusations toward CCP and BoB. And since this obviously has a desired effect on the community and the outsiders of EVE, putting both CCP and EVE in a very negative perspective, they (Goon) really have no reason to stop as it has a devastating effect. In my truthful opinion, the so-called evidence that Goons has provided for us looks to be more of a propaganda coup, written in that way that Goons will be portrayed as a reapeatedly raped victim, that desperately cries for attention to be saved from the brutal and callous minds of CCP and BoB. Do I honestly give a flying ****? No, I don't, because I can log out from the game, and walk out the door for a walk. The last round of "evidence" as you put it left CCP's credibility raped about as bad as Tori Amos. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt seeing as they were right before.
Katherine Howard	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:50:00 - [3108] If CCP doesn't take their players seriously with these kind of accusations why don't the players just chip in money and sue CCP for not providing a level playing ground? I'm sure with the incredibly large player base that enough money could easily be pooled together in a short amount of time to hire a lawyer and handle this professionally.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:50:00 - [3109] Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: Avon Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: Avon No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. It amazes me to see this kind of . . . "thinking" being done by posters like Avon. Actually, let us say that Goons did NOT follow proper channels for bringing this to the public. For example, let us say they did not email IA first, or send a petition at all. Well, fine, let's say this for the sake of discussion. It does NOT logically follow that the charges made are wrong, incorrect, or dismissable. It just means Goons should have been more patient. And given CCp's prior handling of issues, it may have ended up the same way anyway, albeit further down the road. Can't you even see the hypocrisy of what you have typed there? Avon, Do you actually know what the word hyprocrisy and hypocrite mean? They are used to describe a person(s) who condemn one thing while at teh same time doing that very same thing. For example, Goons complain about BOB getting unfair preferential treatment by devs/GMs who they can MSN whenever needed. But at the same time, Goons have dev/GM friends that they MSN whenever needed. -- that is hyprocrisy. For example, Goons complaining about BOB receiving BPOs from a dev for free (which as we all know happened in the T20 incident). But at the same time Goons recieving BPOs for free from their own dev/GM contact. Get it? My post you quoted was not hypocritical. It was attempting to show how your line of tihnking in illogical. Just because Gooons may have made a mistake by jumping-the-gun so to speak with teh threadnaught (which is debateable), it does not dissolve the validity of: 1) the questions Goons raised; 2) the actions (previous and current) of various individuals linked to BOB/CCp; and 3) teh clear statements of BOB members that basically confirm a less-than-appropriate in-game closeness between dev/GMs and BOB. These are the issues -- not whether someone is winning or losing the game or who is who. If it were Goons in place of BOB, I'd BE SAYING THE SAME THING. I have notihng against BOB as an alliance per se. Heck, I fought with you while I was in LV -- AGAINST Goons. I've even had several chats with Blacklight, who I very much enjoyed speaking with, and who I actually like quite a bit from what I know about him and my interaction with him. So, to me, at least. This is all JUST about fair play -- period. FOR ALL OF US -- you included. So, would one person using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue to accuse another person of using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue not qualify as hypocrisy in your eyes? I thought it fell exactly within the definition of hypocrisy. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:51:00 - [3110] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch One reason we might jump to this outrageous assumption is because we know for a fact that they have done so in the past. Goons have done alot in the past, if that would mean everything someone can accuse them of is true because of their past, the goons are in a world of trouble. Do you actually care about the game? Or do you just care about raping goons?
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:51:00 - [3111] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Breaky Rules Originally by: Khorian I don't have any channels to Devs or recieved billions through spawned BPOs. That was part of what I said. I can safely say that i am 100% innocent. Can you say the same for your leadership? I have no insight into the leadership, nor can I speak for my leadership. I am merely a foot soldier that follows orders. Can you speak for your leadership? Nobody is saying that every member of BoB is guilty of receiving spawned BPOs or contacting devs via MSN. It is however pretty clear that some of your members are.
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:55:00 - [3112] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Vantras If you truly cared about the game (as you profess) you and yours would shut down your private channels to the Devs. Pay reparations for the billions earned from the illegally spawned bpo's. Perhaps even post some of your own internal chat logs-designed to clear the air and put this controversy behind us. BOB (the center of much of this) can likely do almost as much as CCP to prove that much of what is occuring is unfounded and not true-assuming thats the case. Nobody would like to see a clean game more then me and those posting here. What many of us fear is what happened last time. A slap on the wrist to the CCP employee, threads deleted. Nothing at all done in game...the community was simply instructed to shut up and move on. I don't have any channels to Devs or recieved billions through spawned BPOs. That was part of what I said. I can safely say that i am 100% innocent. The things is the majority of BoB are likely to not be involved in any wrong doings, and its sad that all are marked with the same brush. But facts of the matter are DEVs have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar before, the playerbase was only starting to recover from that. CCP managed to play down the matter and carry on. Reading the open letter, and other sources of info out of game and forums, (just use google) gives me the impression that wrong doing is afoot again. Now lots of certain BoB members are saying its all just unfounded lies, and that the player base should listen to them and wait to see what CCP says. However the player base trust in CCP's product and its integrity is at an all time low, and many players have no faith in CCP's internal process to stop misuse of employee access. This has gone beyond ingame politics, beyond BoB, Goons and any other alliance, this is about RL misconduct and abuse of power and some CCP employees acting unprofessionally and allowed to get away with it by their employer. Like the saying goes. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:55:00 - [3113] Originally by: Avon So, would one person using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue to accuse another person of using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue not qualify as hypocrisy in your eyes? I thought it fell exactly within the definition of hypocrisy. Not really. Let me give you a better example of hypocritical behaviour: if person A were to accuse person B of avoiding answering a question because they had something to hide while at the same time avoiding answering a question themselves that would be hypocritical. Hope that helps and oh yeah since we're having this nice chat I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:56:00 - [3114] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Nobody is saying that every member of BoB is guilty of receiving spawned BPOs or contacting devs via MSN. It is however pretty clear that some of your members are. Whereas, of course, no goon has ever cheated, ever? Because, if they had, then the entire alliance would be discredited for the actions of some members, right? Or are there different levels of cheating? Actually, I'm quite interested in that. Does the Goon crusade to save us all from cheating apply to all cheating equally, or just that which forwards their agenda? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Khorian Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:56:00 - [3115] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Nobody is saying that every member of BoB is guilty of receiving spawned BPOs or contacting devs via MSN. It is however pretty clear that some of your members are. The thing is, that is exactly what most of the people here say. They say BoB(BoD) and that includes me. It's a generalisation and it's unjustified. This is about a handful of individuals, and not about BoB or Goons or CCP. I just wish people would realize that and stop screaming murder. --------------------- This is the signature
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:57:00 - [3116] Originally by: Avon Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: Avon Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: Avon No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear. Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels. I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread. It amazes me to see this kind of . . . "thinking" being done by posters like Avon. Actually, let us say that Goons did NOT follow proper channels for bringing this to the public. For example, let us say they did not email IA first, or send a petition at all. Well, fine, let's say this for the sake of discussion. It does NOT logically follow that the charges made are wrong, incorrect, or dismissable. It just means Goons should have been more patient. And given CCp's prior handling of issues, it may have ended up the same way anyway, albeit further down the road. Can't you even see the hypocrisy of what you have typed there? Avon, Do you actually know what the word hyprocrisy and hypocrite mean? They are used to describe a person(s) who condemn one thing while at teh same time doing that very same thing. For example, Goons complain about BOB getting unfair preferential treatment by devs/GMs who they can MSN whenever needed. But at the same time, Goons have dev/GM friends that they MSN whenever needed. -- that is hyprocrisy. For example, Goons complaining about BOB receiving BPOs from a dev for free (which as we all know happened in the T20 incident). But at the same time Goons recieving BPOs for free from their own dev/GM contact. Get it? My post you quoted was not hypocritical. It was attempting to show how your line of tihnking in illogical. Just because Gooons may have made a mistake by jumping-the-gun so to speak with teh threadnaught (which is debateable), it does not dissolve the validity of: 1) the questions Goons raised; 2) the actions (previous and current) of various individuals linked to BOB/CCp; and 3) teh clear statements of BOB members that basically confirm a less-than-appropriate in-game closeness between dev/GMs and BOB. These are the issues -- not whether someone is winning or losing the game or who is who. If it were Goons in place of BOB, I'd BE SAYING THE SAME THING. I have notihng against BOB as an alliance per se. Heck, I fought with you while I was in LV -- AGAINST Goons. I've even had several chats with Blacklight, who I very much enjoyed speaking with, and who I actually like quite a bit from what I know about him and my interaction with him. So, to me, at least. This is all JUST about fair play -- period. FOR ALL OF US -- you included. So, would one person using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue to accuse another person of using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue not qualify as hypocrisy in your eyes? I thought it fell exactly within the definition of hypocrisy. Quite sure that the majority of the people spamming the forums where banned for doing it. Will anything be done to the guys using the other inappropriate methods? Nice to see you are acknowledging what your corpmates do is inappropriate though. BoB could use more people like you in their ranks.
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:58:00 - [3117] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Nobody is saying that every member of BoB is guilty of receiving spawned BPOs or contacting devs via MSN. It is however pretty clear that some of your members are. Whereas, of course, no goon has ever cheated, ever? Because, if they had, then the entire alliance would be discredited for the actions of some members, right? Or are there different levels of cheating? Actually, I'm quite interested in that. Does the Goon crusade to save us all from cheating apply to all cheating equally, or just that which forwards their agenda? Same question to you Avon. If you know about cheating within the ranks of BoB would you do anything about it?
Troubadour Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:59:00 - [3118] of course performing a DDoS attack on the forums is perfectly legal both in game and in real life. right? oh wait.
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:00:00 - [3119] Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 16:59:39 Originally by: Khorian Edited by: Khorian on 27/05/2007 16:30:00 People talking about democracies here and constitutional states, where no one is found guilty until his guilt is proven. France isn't a democracy, then? Innocent until proven guilty is based on British law. Not all countries legal systems work the same. There you go, you've learnt something today. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:00:00 - [3120] Anyone who's asking for the dissolution of an alliance is an idiot. I think what most people want to see is a few firings for employees who had a hand in improper communication/ changes in game and probably also a few bans (on any side) for members who abused an outside of game relationship for in game advantages.
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:01:00 - [3121] Originally by: Troubadour of course performing a DDoS attack on the forums is perfectly legal both in game and in real life. right? oh wait. Do you even understand what a DDoS is or does it just make what you say seem more interesting?
Don Hicks Dirty Labs	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:01:00 - [3122] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Nobody is saying that every member of BoB is guilty of receiving spawned BPOs or contacting devs via MSN. It is however pretty clear that some of your members are. The thing is, that is exactly what most of the people here say. They say BoB(BoD) and that includes me. It's a generalisation and it's unjustified. This is about a handful of individuals, and not about BoB or Goons or CCP. I just wish people would realize that and stop screaming murder. i think for many ppl its not about goon or bob. its about dev and ccp abusing our trust.
Tiger Fai Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:01:00 - [3123] For whatever it is worth; Our game deserves better than people like Dianabolic with a direct line to the devs For almost forty-eight hours, CCP has done nothing, and that's disgraceful Only hope now is that a prompt response is forthcoming, and that justice will be dealt -- TOO MANY ENERMY
Scatim Helicon	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:02:00 - [3124] Well, now my forum ban has lapsed... Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina Arkanon, i think it's time for some heads to roll; gm, player and dev alike. This list of heads includes but is not limited to: T20, admiral crajdasjfgsdkjfsd, orange species, sharkbait and the various other players/devs that have direct contact with the opposed parties to manipulate the way EVE's sandbox evolves. In this case, I see no reason why OS has to go (much as I'd like to see one less POS-bowler in our space). If the 'MSN-gate' allegation is true, its hardly Orange Species' fault for using a means of communication made available to him; the fault lies with whoever was on the other end of that communication and acted on it. I can make all sorts of ridiculous and unreasonable requests of my friends (whether its asking a CCP employee to fire ISD members for spurious reasons, or asking a bank manager to slip me a few thousand pounds from the vault), the onus is on them to act responsibly and professionally and tell me to go through the proper channels or get lost. Likewise Sharkbait, right now we have no evidence he's actually done anything malicious. If BoB were to drop a dreadfleet on one of DS1's POS sites next week then his actions will be seen in a different light and I'll be extremely suspicious, but currently the most you can say is that to not inform the members of DS1 of his actions in advance or even respond to their communications afterwards was the wrong way to go about things. T20 of course should have been sacked on the spot when the first misconduct came to light. Quote: I have no problem with EVE devs having various friends, or even gamer friends, i do have a problem however when the friends of devs are eve players that, due to their buddy buddy relationship, can get the devs to act in their interest, to boost the players e-peen or whatever. Agreed, but in hindsight it was extremely niave of CCP to create a game with the ruthless and politicised atmosphere of EVE, and then to recruit their employees and GMs from the various partisan factions within the game and expect them to remain entirely impartial with what seems to be minimal accountability or monitoring. We've all seen how participants on all sides of this game tend to demonise their opponents (a natural phenomenon in all forms of warfare, after all), is it really so unexpected that employees recruited from this atmosphere would carry over their preconceptions as GMs and help out their friends and former corpmates against 'the bad guys'?
Troubadour Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:02:00 - [3125] Originally by: Halca Originally by: Troubadour of course performing a DDoS attack on the forums is perfectly legal both in game and in real life. right? oh wait. Do you even understand what a DDoS is or does it just make what you say seem more interesting? spamming a service with packets in order to take it offline or make it unusable = DDoS. This now includes forum raiding.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:02:00 - [3126] Originally by: Avon Whereas, of course, no goon has ever cheated, ever? Because, if they had, then the entire alliance would be discredited for the actions of some members, right? I'll repeat again, this is not about discrediting BoB it's about getting CCP to fix some serious issues with their internal workings. Two of the three scandals brought up do not involve BoB in the slightest. Thanks for replying to me though now since you've picked up the habit again I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace.
Digital Solaris	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:03:00 - [3127] Originally by: Breaky Rules The last round of "evidence" as you put it left CCP's credibility raped about as bad as Tori Amos. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt seeing as they were right before. You do have a point. But how about this, will you be able to differ from truth and a lie? As I said, this has the desired effect and its nothing but devastating and so, why would Goon ever want to stop throwing dirt in the direction of CCP even if they are lying through their teeth? I mean, it is obvious that they are after propaganda points. Originally by: Wansua Wiku You are absolutely right. The fact that the previous allegations proved true does not in any way lend credence to this claim. Goons, you should be ashamed of yourselves. You miss the point, and therefore I suggest you read what I wrote to Breaky Rules. -- Forum mentality is really like sex, everybody likes to be on top! Me too... although, I prefer doggy.
Khorian Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:03:00 - [3128] Originally by: Itzena Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 16:59:39 Originally by: Khorian Edited by: Khorian on 27/05/2007 16:30:00 People talking about democracies here and constitutional states, where no one is found guilty until his guilt is proven. France isn't a democracy, then? Innocent until proven guilty is based on British law. Not all countries legal systems work the same. There you go, you've learnt something today. Thanks Itzena, I remember you from Vallon Zek btw. Anyway, you are right there. But Constitutional states are still a good thing (here in germany too) --------------------- This is the signature
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:03:00 - [3129] Originally by: Avon So, would one person using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue to accuse another person of using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue not qualify as hypocrisy in your eyes? I thought it fell exactly within the definition of hypocrisy. LOL. I see what you did. This is kinda clever, but also twisted and not really accurate. But I give you 10 points for trying. In truth, what you have just done is take two actions that fall under two different categories, and RE-categorized them together under a THIRD category you invented in order to formulate your hypocrisy accusation. But the two actions you noted do not fall under the same category, or even the third category you invented -- i.e. as you put it, "inappropriate method of communication." 1. BOB using MSN to contact devs/GMs = category: inappropriate in-game contact between devs and players that circumvent game mechanics and rules others play by. 2. GOONS threadnaught = category: choosing an accelerated level of communication w/ public before exhausting all other possible means of communication with CCP. Seee? Two different actions = no hypocrisy. They are different actions. It WOULD have been hypocrisy if Goons complained about BOB, but then turned around and used MSN to do the very same thing. THAT would be hypocrisy. You erroneously re-categorized both actions under a third invented category "inappropriate method of communication." But this style of re-categorization can be used to make ANYTHING into hypocrisy. You might as well have said, "Well, Goons are hypocrites because they used words to convey their accusations just like BOB used words with MSN." Absurd. I hope this helps. I also added another para. in my last post about BNC which I hope shows I bear no animosity toward you, your corp, or even BOB. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:04:00 - [3130] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Nobody is saying that every member of BoB is guilty of receiving spawned BPOs or contacting devs via MSN. It is however pretty clear that some of your members are. The thing is, that is exactly what most of the people here say. They say BoB(BoD) and that includes me. It's a generalisation and it's unjustified. This is about a handful of individuals, and not about BoB or Goons or CCP. I just wish people would realize that and stop screaming murder. I actually believe this. Sooo..lets get them named, shamed and banned. Employee, BOB member, Goonie-anyone that is cheating, manipulating the game, making it an un-level playing field for those of us that just log on and follow the rules.
Arrow Jumpdrive Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:10:00 - [3131] Quote: Our game deserves better than people like Dianabolic with a direct line to the devs This is part of the issue at hand. The original issue was a GM logging into the game, adding himself to a directorship role in a corp under the Guise of a POS issue. Bullocks I say. Quote: I don't see how a GM joining a corp is an exploit. - WHAT ?!, ARE YOU INSANE ?
She Storm Minmatar The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:11:00 - [3132] I am not in either BOB nor Goons, Though I am allied with Goons. Personally, I think ANYONE having a direct, not in game, line of communication with the GMs should not be happening. As for the "Bob Cheats/Goon Whines" forum whoring, It's just Bull**** I could give 2 craps about. If the other mentioned issues happened or not, after past problems, one would think that CCP would have ALREADY taken the step to keep GMs, etc OUT OF PLAYER ALLIANCES. As improprieties have already happened once, it makes it too easy for people to believe they are happening again if CCP employees are allowed to be in player corps/alliances. Simple solutions. #1. Make it a mandate that NO CCP EMPLOYEE MAY COMMUNICATE WITH SUBSCRIBERS OUTSIDE OF THE GAME. (Wouldn't be any different then the thousands of companies who do not allow employee/customer freternization) #2 NO CCP EMPLOYEE MAY BE A MEMBER OF ANY SUBSCRIBER CORPORATION. Those 2 rules would alliviate most if not all of the either truthful, or alleged problems.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:11:00 - [3133] Originally by: Khorian The thing is, that is exactly what most of the people here say. They say BoB(BoD) and that includes me. It's a generalisation and it's unjustified. This is about a handful of individuals, and not about BoB or Goons or CCP. I just wish people would realize that and stop screaming murder. Saying your alliance is guilty of cheating (or at best highly inappropriate actions) is not the same as saying you personally are guilty. That being said I do agree with you that this is not really about BoB but I completely disagree that this is not about CCP, it is their policies and their practicies that allow situations such as these to arise time and time again.
Shivalla Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:11:00 - [3134] Originally by: OverKill Ok (climbs on the box) time for me to chime in... Some of you may know of me, and most of you probably do not. Sufficed to say, I have been here since before EVE was even released to the public. No, I'm not a fanboi, a dev or any other person except myself. I've been here since Alpha, Beta and day 1 of release. I can honestly say that aside from the 20-30 times that I've had all the devs over for a BBQ at my place (levity, humor, all that), I haven't had a single interaction with any of them ingame (that I am aware of) and it really makes no difference to me whether I do or not. Simply put; who cares if they are cheating, who cares if they are not?!?! There is no endgame in EVE. You can never "win" like so many people claim. EVE is designed to be an everlasting labor of love for her developers and for those of us who play in this universe. It is an idea, a dream and a realization of that dream that persists whether you are online or not. They killed my dreadnaught! So what, buy another one. They have access to T2 BPOs! So what, invent some of your own and don't buy from them. They have 1000 0.0 systems and we only have 550! So what, how much room do you honestly think you need? I saw XYZ talking to GM SuperKalaFragaListic! So what, how does it REALLY affect you? The corp I am a member of has been here since day 1, we've had our shares of up and down and we've never once resorted to any kind of dev assisted advancement, even if it does exist. We'll never be the richest most powerful bunch of uber players but that suits us just fine and we enjoy the game for what it is, an extension of our imaginations. Perhaps some of you need to take a good hard look at exactly what you are playing and what type of game you WANT to play. If you want an endgame then maybe you should be looking elsewhere. If you want to analyze, adapt and overcome then this is the place for you. The only issue that the players should be concerned with (most of you are, even hidden under 98 pages of somewhat murky waters) is the issue of a player being banned by a GM without a VERY thorough investigation. CCP does need to institute a policy in regards to banning, perhaps a two tier response system. GM 1 opts to ban a player for whatever reason, he needs someone else to execute said ban. (nuke missile keys anyone?!?!). Banning should require a fair bit of thought and investigation before its done! Anyways, I came, I saw, I said my peace... For the record, I am wearing asbestos underwear and am hereby flameproof. Regards, OK - This might actually be the best post sofar. I have gone through this whole threadnaught, and posted few replies, got slandered. called names, for being BoB obviously. And in general sense, gone through a pile of alt posts, ****cluster of ignorant trolling, flaming those who are opposed side. And in general, a heap of total and utter CRAP. I never have understanded the fact why BoB was so hated, I was in LV; and most of LV were not Pro-BoB, and since we allied with them, when RAGOON/TCF couldnt beat us, and had the train fixed, and +60% eve alliances came and took us down, many in LV left due "allying with BoB". I never have understanded it, and I now do. Anger, Envy, Hate, they all go hand in hand. You hate those who are successful, those are claimed to cheat. Those are claimed to be favored by those in power. Those are rumored to metagame in extent that its not healthy to community. Those are ignorant flaming trolls who dont want to do anything else than anger people. Now I damn right get it. Ok, I have been called a moron, a egoistic, many things. I admit, I have been proud, I still am. Why wouldnt I be? Im ex-LV, we were the second biggest, now I am honored to be invited into BoB. I am fricking PROUD to be part of it, as it is a proof of what I have been doing in EVE. PWNING when ever it has been possible. Hate me, hate us. I want to finish this into. JUST BRING IT ON! 10/10
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:12:00 - [3135] Originally by: Witty Moniker Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley It's amazing what the human mind can make up from thin-air. You know, nowhere has anything you've written above been stated and not a single shred of proof. There's not a shred of proof of BoB having out of game contacts with devs and using that ability to circumvent petitions? Really? Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Originally by: D'Artagnan Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. This means nothing. Are you saying people are not allowed to speak with other people? This doesn't mean at all that those contacts are being used, whenever something needs doing. You are just linking things together without a single shred of evidence. "Oh yes, jst because you know someone who works for CCP you must be cheating. Omg, ban him quickly." Ugh, ok whatever. Do any of you guys in BoB even understand what the term conflict of interest means?
Boogerbuster	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:12:00 - [3136] Originally by: Xalorn This is much bigger than bob versus goon. To all saying 'proof or STFU', read page 12, post 345 of this thread we are in. Regardless of all the other serious allegations, this statement made by one of the top BoB leaders is extremely dangerous to the long term well being of the game. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. The fact that he feels that having that sort of inside line into CCP is 'not a big deal' shows a lot of people exactly how disconnected from standard dev ethical conduct CCP devs are. ---In no other major MMO is such an 'inside line' allowed. ---In all other major MMO games, the existence of such an 'inside line' is grounds for immediate termination for the employee & immediate ban for the player. I'm not advocating the termination/ban of anyone, I am saying that either NOBODY gets 'special access' or EVERYONE gets 'special access'. You may not advocate a ban on these collaborators, but I do. Slaps on the wrist just won't cut it anymore.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:12:00 - [3137] Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 17:03:40 Originally by: Avon So, would one person using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue to accuse another person of using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue not qualify as hypocrisy in your eyes? I thought it fell exactly within the definition of hypocrisy. LOL. I see what you did. This is kinda clever, but also twisted and not really accurate. But I give you 10 points for trying. In truth, what you have just done is take two actions that fall under two different categories, and RE-categorized them together under a THIRD category you invented in order to formulate your hypocrisy accusation. But the two actions you noted do not fall under the same category, or even the third category you invented -- i.e. as you put it, "inappropriate method of communication." 1. BOB using MSN to contact devs/GMs = category: inappropriate in-game contact between devs and players that circumvent game mechanics and rules others play by. 2. GOONS threadnaught = category: choosing an accelerated level of communication w/ public before exhausting all other possible means of communication with CCP. Seee? Two different actions = no hypocrisy. They are different actions. It WOULD have been hypocrisy if Goons complained about BOB, but then turned around and used MSN to do the very same thing. THAT would be hypocrisy. You erroneously re-categorized both actions under a third invented category "inappropriate method of communication." But this style of re-categorization can be used to make ANYTHING into hypocrisy. You might as well have said, "Well, Goons are hypocrites because they used words to convey their accusations just like BOB used words with MSN." Absurd. I hope this helps. I also added another para. in my last post about BNC which I hope shows I bear no animosity toward you, your corp, or even BOB. Nice to see you trying, but sophism isn't going to help. The pot calling the kettle black is hypocritical even without the pot actually being a kettle. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:13:00 - [3138] Originally by: Halca They posted with legitimate accounts onto a forum they are subscribed to. They didn't spam the service with packets in order to take it offline. It does sound more evil though and adds a little spice to your otherwise inane post that is completely off topic. Congrats. No man we're totally hackers, like, late 80's style hackers. We have various colored boxes and mohawks and when we're not using our Fushcia boxes to phreak $outhwe$tern Bell or phreaking the norms then we're spending all our time trying to destroy America by making Time's square start flashing "AVAST YE LANDLUBBERS, BANK OF AMERICA IS ABOUT TO GO BELLY UP" or corrupting the youth of today with our rocking and rolling and dungeons and dragons satan worship
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:14:00 - [3139] Originally by: Witty Moniker This means nothing. Are you saying people are not allowed to speak with other people? This doesn't mean at all that those contacts are being used, whenever something needs doing. Oh really? Originally by: D'Artagnan Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it.
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:15:00 - [3140] Originally by: Khorian I don't have any channels to Devs or recieved billions through spawned BPOs. That was part of what I said. I can safely say that i am 100% innocent. You are quilty by association. The guy buying the gold from bank-robbers is also guilty by association. You had the chance to be principled about cheating. You could have left BoB when you found out about the cheating that was going on. You didn't. From then on you became a cheater yourself. By association. You're now to late to claim innocence. Reputation works strange that way. Khorian == BoB == cheat. People will always see it that way. Can't put it simpler than that. --
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:16:00 - [3141] Originally by: Avon The pot calling the kettle black is hypocritical even without the pot actually being a kettle. So are you saying that members of BoB do not in fact maintain inappropriate lines of communication with devs? And just for old times sake I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:16:00 - [3142] Originally by: Avon Nice to see you trying, but sophism isn't going to help. The pot calling the kettle black is hypocritical even without the pot actually being a kettle. Or you could address the fact that the majority of accounts spamming the forums where banned for their inappropriate use of communications and the onus here was on ISD moderation to see to this and then see how with BoB's inaprropriate friendships there is zero comeback if something inappropriate does occur.
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:17:00 - [3143] Originally by: Avon The pot calling the kettle black is hypocritical even without the pot actually being a kettle. Uhm, yeah. Well, sorry if I confused you with the facts. It's hardly sophism ('a deliberately invalid argument displaying ingenuity in reasoning in the hope of deceiving someone"). You've simply decided in yoru mind that you MUST call Goons hypocrites and invented some bassackward way of justifying it -- one that makes no sense when considering the definition of the term hypocrite and the issue being discussed. Oh well. Whatever. The point in my post is there for anyone to read. As I said, Goons would indeed be hypocrites of they complained about BOB MSNing devs/GMS, but then turned around and did the same thing. That, my friend, is a hypocrite. tata Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Elois Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:17:00 - [3144] This is all kind of funny. In a game this which is obviously rigged against hi sec miners, the low sec highly experienced, privleged alliance characters are screaming like babies about a minor amount of developers playing with powertools in their sandbox. Get a bloody life, eh? Try playing more, crybabying less. You make me sick.
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:19:00 - [3145] hm ... posts repeat themselves on regular basis ... there goes another 100 pages Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
Perry Hope	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:20:00 - [3146] That is all no more fun. Hey guys. This is a game. It shouldn¦t not be more than a game. I love EVE but sometimes it is really bad to hear that someone have more rights ingame than others. WTF??? I mean. Aren¦t we all members of this game? Why did we f*** up each other out of range of the EULA and the ingame strategies??? I feel a bit scared and aggressive about that theme.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:21:00 - [3147] Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: Avon The pot calling the kettle black is hypocritical even without the pot actually being a kettle. Uhm, yeah. Well, sorry if I confused you with the facts. It's hardly sophism ('a deliberately invalid argument displaying ingenuity in reasoning in the hope of deceiving someone"). You've simply decided in yoru mind that you MUST call Goons hypocrites and invented some bassackward way of justifying it -- one that makes no sense when considering the definition of the term hypocrite and the issue being discussed. Oh well. Whatever. The point in my post is there for anyone to read. As I said, Goons would indeed be hypocrites of they complained about BOB MSNing devs/GMS, but then turned around and did the same thing. That, my friend, is a hypocrite. tata So, if any goons have chatted to people over MSN then they are hypocrites? You might want to talk to some people higher up in GS before you answer that. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Lumy Eve University	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:21:00 - [3148] Originally by: eleuthereus 1. BOB using MSN to contact devs/GMs = category: inappropriate in-game contact between devs and players that circumvent game mechanics and rules others play by. 2. GOONS threadnaught = category: intentional damage to CCP reputation in public before exhausting all other possible means of communication with CCP. Fixed for you.
Falco Sparverius Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:21:00 - [3149] Originally by: Itzena Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 16:59:39 Originally by: Khorian Edited by: Khorian on 27/05/2007 16:30:00 People talking about democracies here and constitutional states, where no one is found guilty until his guilt is proven. France isn't a democracy, then? Innocent until proven guilty is based on British law. Not all countries legal systems work the same. There you go, you've learnt something today. Not that its actually relevant to the discussion, but you are not really correct. Bork Bork Bork
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:23:00 - [3150] Originally by: Avon Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: Avon The pot calling the kettle black is hypocritical even without the pot actually being a kettle. Uhm, yeah. Well, sorry if I confused you with the facts. It's hardly sophism ('a deliberately invalid argument displaying ingenuity in reasoning in the hope of deceiving someone"). You've simply decided in yoru mind that you MUST call Goons hypocrites and invented some bassackward way of justifying it -- one that makes no sense when considering the definition of the term hypocrite and the issue being discussed. Oh well. Whatever. The point in my post is there for anyone to read. As I said, Goons would indeed be hypocrites of they complained about BOB MSNing devs/GMS, but then turned around and did the same thing. That, my friend, is a hypocrite. tata So, if any goons have chatted to people over MSN then they are hypocrites? You might want to talk to some people higher up in GS before you answer that. So what you're saying is that it's okay then if someone else does it or that you imply does it.
Ironnight Caldari x13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:28:00 - [3151] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Nobody is saying that every member of BoB is guilty of receiving spawned BPOs or contacting devs via MSN. It is however pretty clear that some of your members are. The thing is, that is exactly what most of the people here say. They say BoB(BoD) and that includes me. It's a generalisation and it's unjustified. This is about a handful of individuals, and not about BoB or Goons or CCP. I just wish people would realize that and stop screaming murder. Well when you stay in an alliance that got caught cheating, like BOB did with t20, then you cant be to surprised that it effects you to.
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:29:00 - [3152] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that? Thanks for confirming. We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. You do realize that stating this you show that the allegations of favoritism are valid and hence you, and every other member who have admitted such should then be banned from the game by your own admission.
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:30:00 - [3153] Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 17:29:13 Originally by: Avon So, if any goons have chatted to people over MSN then they are hypocrites? You might want to talk to some people higher up in GS before you answer that. Hmm, your joking right? Obviously, I am talking about using MSN to contact devs/GMs in-game for preferential/expedited/accelerated actions during game-play. Duh. And yes, any Goons who have done this, but are complaining about BOB doing the same thing would indeed be hypocrites. AND, I might add, would be just as guilty of expoiting their relationships with devs/GMs - I would call for that interaction to stop as well. And for the record, I know of no such interaction taking place between ANY goons and devs/GMS. If you have information to the contrary -- please please please provide it for all of us to see and examine so it, too, can be dealt with. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:31:00 - [3154] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Halca So what you're saying is that it's okay then if someone else does it or that you imply does it. Chatting with people, of course it is okay. Pulling strings or bypassing sytems that other have to use, no. My position hasn't changed one bit. You where the one talking about inappropriate forms of communication. When did it all become oh so innocent?
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:31:00 - [3155] Originally by: Halca Do any of you guys in BoB even understand what the term conflict of interest means? BOB is EVE's version of Haliburton. -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:33:00 - [3156] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Avon [Chatting with people, of course it is okay. Pulling strings or bypassing sytems that other have to use, no. My position hasn't changed one bit. So what's your reaction to this post from one of your corpmates? Originally by: D'Artagnan Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Well, as I don't use MSN, and have no CCP MSN contacts, I would say that as an alliance-wide generalisation it is quite inaccurate. Also, it is badly worded, but I think you are playing on a meaning that was not intended. But still, if that is the best you can do, you hold on to it tight - I'd hate to see what you would be like flailing about for your next bit of hope. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:35:00 - [3157] Originally by: eleuthereus And for the record, I know of no such interaction taking place between ANY goons and devs/GMS. If you have information to the contrary -- please please please provide it for all of us to see and examine so it, too, can be dealt with. Why would I do that? The correct procedure is to email it directly to the IA department, remember? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Amonja Hequintz Amarr High Caliber Industries	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:35:00 - [3158] It's no secreat that CCP are doing weird stuff as helping BOB out.. We saw that clearly during the war with ASCN... And several times before in the past CPP have helped out certain other corps. SO CPP stop denying it! We know, oh we know.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:38:00 - [3159] Originally by: Avon Well, as I don't use MSN, and have no CCP MSN contacts, I would say that as an alliance-wide generalisation it is quite inaccurate. So since you, personally, have not had a chummy, casual relationship with the developers of this game and have not abused those contacts to circumvent the systems in place to get assistance makes everything just hunkie dorie then. No one is calling you, personally, a cheater. A fair number of us are probably calling you dumb, but not a cheater. Your alliance, on the other hand, is more crooked than a Kennedy campaign
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:38:00 - [3160] Originally by: Avon Well, as I don't use MSN, and have no CCP MSN contacts, I would say that as an alliance-wide generalisation it is quite inaccurate. I think everyone is quite prepared to accept that some of your members don't cheat. Originally by: Avon Also, it is badly worded, but I think you are playing on a meaning that was not intended. On second thoughts you're probably right it seems absurd that a member of BoB would confess to something so embarrassing to your cause oh wait Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Still I'll give you personally credit you've been very good about not revealing anything that could be used to build a case against you such as what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace
Gerrard Knight	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:39:00 - [3161] Originally by: Holley Molley Originally by: Katherine Howard If CCP doesn't take their players seriously with these kind of accusations why don't the players just chip in money and sue CCP for not providing a level playing ground? I'm sure with the incredibly large player base that enough money could easily be pooled together in a short amount of time to hire a lawyer and handle this professionally. I will donate $5. i believe that both bob and gs are innocent and the fundamental problem lies with ccp and that the above could be a good way to solve this problem once and for all.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:41:00 - [3162] Originally by: Amonja Hequintz It's no secreat that CCP are doing weird stuff as helping BOB out.. We saw that clearly during the war with ASCN... This is the idiocy i meant in my post a page ago. Does truthfinding about three ossues of which two relatively minor validate giving a platform and audience to people like this poster ? The escalation and forming of chinese whispers about this subject is absolutely insane. Avon nor me will tell you that there is no reason to look into these issues. Both of us are of the opinion however that the slinging of ridiculous filth should not be tolerated. It only serves to cause more damage, without due reason. [center] Old blog
Trask Kilraen The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:41:00 - [3163] Rightly or worngly, there is the impression that BoB got away with cheating and suffered no penalty. More than that, they continue to use their dominance, that some perceive was partly acquired illegitimately. CCP continues to have a creditibility problem. Much of the player base would like more tranparency and and a serious firewall between influencial players and CCP staff. Rumors like the one where a BoB member just IM'd his CCP buddy are all too easy to believe, even if entirely untrue.
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:43:00 - [3164] Originally by: Trask Kilraen Rumors like the one where a BoB member just IM'd his CCP buddy are all too easy to believe, even if entirely untrue. So open admission of this by a BoB member goes from being fact to rumor?
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:43:00 - [3165] Not ONE single BOB member sees ANYTHING wrong? not a single one is concerned about any of this? We really are playing a different game then. Every BOB post here seeks to deflect, minimize, ignore, counter-accuse, or just plain diminish the concerns of the community. If you are innocent-youd want the truth out as much as the next guy. If there are good and proper explanations for the MANY accusations in this thread..and IF the pressure is kept high enough on CCP to respond-then I reckon we will all breathe a huge sigh of relief when the truth prevails! I'll be the first one to line up and apologize if we find out that... BoB doesnt have back channel communications methods to DEV's that result in special treatment. The CCP GM was doing something totally appropriate and it was just an odd miscommunication. BoB had nothing whatsoever to do with an ISD member getting insta banned. When CCP proves all of this i will come back and make an uber apology..
Halock	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:44:00 - [3166] Quote: Keeping allegations under control, not hidden, serves to protect CCP's and Eve's interests for the duration of due investigation of such allegations. Threadnoughts, slashdotting and generally internet **tyness without any possible counter by CCP (because they can't legally, and because everyone knows they won't practically) only serves to fuel the **** hysteria. A question to whomever here likes to think himself as a critic pressuring CCP to open up: Take any ten pages of this thread. Read them and count the number of accusations and insuinations flying around. You'll notice that from three questionable points that merit an internal look-see by CCP Arkanon we've escalated to a complete list of issues and rumours painting CCP and some player groups as the one big vat of pure evil corruption. From "why did someone delete the petition asking about sharkbait's joining of DS1" we've gone to "BoB friendly devs spying on DS1 capital POS and other enemy activities on a regular basis". From "Events are often guided to a pre-determined conclusion" we've gone to "Corrupt ISD staff giving out goodies to ingame friends via rigged events". From "Some people have ways of contacting CCP personell other then via petition" we've gone to "BoB is getting preferential treatment in the form of not waiting for petitions and worse (spawning of items, etc.)" Now, if you're really only interested in getting the truth out, how does this method of getting at it strike you in terms of beign an effective way of truthfinding ? I know how it strikes me tbh. It only makes me feel that mucf of Eve is full of idiots, with the goons and other usual suspects at the top of that ladder. I know that's a silly generalisation, and I don't actually believe it anyway. But it still makes alot of the alts here (what's up with that anyway ?) look like manipulative little whiners only out to damage the game, not out to get an answer. As for the only possible actual serious issue at hand (the accusation of BoB being able to get ISD members fired on a whim). ISD reporters are not to get themselves involved in actual fighting, smack, or other form of player conflict. Furthermore, they are to remove themselves from combat areas when requested to by the involved. Doesn't it seem rather obvious that the reason for hsi removal from ISD has something to do with his attitude displayed and his breaking of these rules rather then some perceived favouritism ? Remember who the source of this accusation is before you judge... So what remains ? There's the possibility that some people in Eve have an extra way of contacting some people at CCP. Wow. I once got a mail from Helmar too, and even sent one back ! So I must be a cheating elitist piece of with oodles of spawned isk in my hangar. And Helmar should obviously be fired because of contacting a player about something ! Think for a minute people. You're collectively going miles off the mark with this thread and it's contents. And what's worse is that you're doing irreperable damage to CCP, damage you might grow to regret later on if you have some form of conscience If it were any other corp it would be different, but seeing aas how BoB HAS been caught cheeting in the past, its a very easy and reasonable assumption that if they continue to have dev friendships and easy access to them, that they are going to get favours and perks, everything blown out of proportion stems from that. You have been caught at one thing, that was very hard to bring to light, what else have you NOT been caught at? Even if its nothign physical as spawned isk bpo's etc, information on Pos's, numbers in local, fleet locations etc are all very valuable and tide turning in eve wars. So now it looks like Bob is still haveing inappropriate relationships with devs, and if thats found to be true once again, i cant see how anyone of you in BoB can get upset at eveyone else bein **ed at you.
Shivalla Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:44:00 - [3167] Originally by: ShinChan So we have so far: 1. ISD member from Goon bumping BOB dread fleet 2. ISD Goon told to move away, but he refuses and goes berserk on local. 3. ISD Goon been expeled from ISD. 4. GM doing his job and fixing a goon POS. 5. Goons DDSoing the EVE-O forums. 6. Goons spamming EVE-O. 7. Goons going berserker on EVE-O forums. 8. Goon mass creating trial accounts to insult on EVE-O forums. 9. Goons finally leaving EVE with their tails between their legs? omg, this might be the conclusion we were looking for. Tho the part 9 wont be happening according to the thread, Goons wont leave until they have ruined the game. That has been said many times already, SomethingAwful is a community which we all know more or less as being a community dedicated to do such acts of deprived griefing. I wont bother myself on it anymore, since Ill just go and pop their ships until they dont have anymore players who will be playing. Or if things blow up of proportions, I hope CCP will intervene and do something to stop the SA community¦s attempt on ruining their awesome product. ¦just my 10 cents.
Ayumi Kuribayashi	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:45:00 - [3168] Frankly, I could care less about the entire topic in general, but it seems clear to me that this all stems from a lack of proper regulations on employee/subscriber relations... That being said, I believe CCP needs to get its act together and work to ensure that there is no improper contact being made between workers and their in-game friends. Plenty of other companies have strict regulations regarding this and it surprises me that CCP seems to not have any regulation whatsoever...
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:46:00 - [3169] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Amonja Hequintz It's no secreat that CCP are doing weird stuff as helping BOB out.. We saw that clearly during the war with ASCN... This is the idiocy i meant in my post a page ago. Does truthfinding about three ossues of which two relatively minor validate giving a platform and audience to people like this poster ? The escalation and forming of chinese whispers about this subject is absolutely insane. Avon nor me will tell you that there is no reason to look into these issues. Both of us are of the opinion however that the slinging of ridiculous filth should not be tolerated. It only serves to cause more damage, without due reason. Prove your alliance's innocence in these matters. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Phocas Lebournes Minmatar New Justice Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:47:00 - [3170] Originally by: Troubadour of course performing a DDoS attack on the forums is perfectly legal both in game and in real life. right? oh wait. Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:47:00 - [3171] Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Avon Well, as I don't use MSN, and have no CCP MSN contacts, I would say that as an alliance-wide generalisation it is quite inaccurate. So since you, personally, have not had a chummy, casual relationship with the developers of this game and have not abused those contacts to circumvent the systems in place to get assistance makes everything just hunkie dorie then. No one is calling you, personally, a cheater. A fair number of us are probably calling you dumb, but not a cheater. Your alliance, on the other hand, is more crooked than a Kennedy campaign I'd urge you to take a look at your own alliance, and more importantly its role in all of this and its goal.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:48:00 - [3172] Originally by: Shivalla omg, this might be the conclusion we were looking for. Tho the part 9 wont be happening according to the thread, Goons wont leave until they have ruined the game. That has been said many times already, SomethingAwful is a community which we all know more or less as being a community dedicated to do such acts of deprived griefing. I wont bother myself on it anymore, since Ill just go and pop their ships until they dont have anymore players who will be playing. Or if things blow up of proportions, I hope CCP will intervene and do something to stop the SA community¦s attempt on ruining their awesome product. ¦just my 10 cents. I don't even have to burn you I can just quote your posts
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:48:00 - [3173] Originally by: Shivalla omg, this might be the conclusion we were looking for. Well aside from the fact that it's almost entirely incorrect yeah.
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:49:00 - [3174] Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: ShinChan So we have so far: 1. ISD member from Goon bumping BOB dread fleet 2. ISD Goon told to move away, but he refuses and goes berserk on local. 3. ISD Goon been expeled from ISD. 4. GM doing his job and fixing a goon POS. 5. Goons DDSoing the EVE-O forums. 6. Goons spamming EVE-O. 7. Goons going berserker on EVE-O forums. 8. Goon mass creating trial accounts to insult on EVE-O forums. 9. Goons finally leaving EVE with their tails between their legs? omg, this might be the conclusion we were looking for. Tho the part 9 wont be happening according to the thread, Goons wont leave until they have ruined the game. That has been said many times already, SomethingAwful is a community which we all know more or less as being a community dedicated to do such acts of deprived griefing. I wont bother myself on it anymore, since Ill just go and pop their ships until they dont have anymore players who will be playing. Or if things blow up of proportions, I hope CCP will intervene and do something to stop the SA community¦s attempt on ruining their awesome product. ¦just my 10 cents. Wow, just wow.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:50:00 - [3175] Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: ShinChan So we have so far: 1. ISD member from Goon bumping BOB dread fleet 2. ISD Goon told to move away, but he refuses and goes berserk on local. 3. ISD Goon been expeled from ISD. 4. GM doing his job and fixing a goon POS. 5. Goons DDSoing the EVE-O forums. 6. Goons spamming EVE-O. 7. Goons going berserker on EVE-O forums. 8. Goon mass creating trial accounts to insult on EVE-O forums. 9. Goons finally leaving EVE with their tails between their legs? omg, this might be the conclusion we were looking for. Tho the part 9 wont be happening according to the thread, Goons wont leave until they have ruined the game. That has been said many times already, SomethingAwful is a community which we all know more or less as being a community dedicated to do such acts of deprived griefing. I wont bother myself on it anymore, since Ill just go and pop their ships until they dont have anymore players who will be playing. Or if things blow up of proportions, I hope CCP will intervene and do something to stop the SA community¦s attempt on ruining their awesome product. ¦just my 10 cents. Quoting for the lulz.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:50:00 - [3176] Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****. A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated.
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:51:00 - [3177] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Avon Well, as I don't use MSN, and have no CCP MSN contacts, I would say that as an alliance-wide generalisation it is quite inaccurate. So since you, personally, have not had a chummy, casual relationship with the developers of this game and have not abused those contacts to circumvent the systems in place to get assistance makes everything just hunkie dorie then. No one is calling you, personally, a cheater. A fair number of us are probably calling you dumb, but not a cheater. Your alliance, on the other hand, is more crooked than a Kennedy campaign I'd urge you to take a look at your own alliance, and more importantly its role in all of this and its goal. Who cares what their goal is, apart from BoB that is. Why are you guys so afraid of something coming out here? Sorry that was rhetorical.
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:51:00 - [3178] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****. A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated. Prove it.
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:53:00 - [3179] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****. A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated. You have no evidence to prove that ISD moderation team took down the forums to stop the inundation of threads to give Arkanon time to post his thread and stop it. There is no denying it was spam but people calling it a DDoS are at best simple and at worse disingenuous shills.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:54:00 - [3180] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). Quote: On the Internet, a distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of compromised systems attack a single target, thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system. The flood of incoming messages to the target system essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. A hacker (or, if you prefer, ***er) begins a DDoS attack by exploiting a vulnerability in one computer system and making it the DDoS "master." It is from the master system that the intruder identifies and communicates with other systems that can be compromised. The intruder loads ***ing tools available on the Internet on multiple -- sometimes thousands of -- compromised systems. With a single command, the intruder instructs the controlled machines to launch one of many flood attacks against a specified target. The inundation of packets to the target causes a denial of service.
javer 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:54:00 - [3181] Originally by: Garia666 Originally by: Mahavy Seth Originally by: Galtan Deus Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. Truly, a great post. /signed i fully agree i cant do more than agree to this, if you ever relate proprietary info as DEV/GM/ISD your arse should be on the way out the front door no matter what, also there is no excuse for the treatment that was accorded to the ISD:IC shaerekan -------------------------------------------- Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:55:00 - [3182] Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****. A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated. You have no evidence to prove that ISD moderation team took down the forums to stop the inundation of threads to give Arkanon time to post his thread and stop it. There is no denying it was spam but people calling it a DDoS are at best simple and at worse disingenuous shills. You mean as disingenuous as the lastest goon replies? And oh, goons calling for proof is hillarious, you should have done that with the OP issue in the first place.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:56:00 - [3183] Originally by: Halock If it were any other corp it would be different, but seeing aas how BoB HAS been caught cheeting in the past, its a very easy and reasonable assumption that if they continue to have dev friendships and easy access to them, that they are going to get favours and perks What exactly was that ? You mean T20 that was caught cheating ? So like, the fact that some people that in 2003 here in a corp that is now in RA were then caught cheating means that it is both a "reasonable and easy assumption" that "they continue to have dev friendships and easy access to them, that they are going to get favours and perks" ? If so then them CCP people got one hell of a lot of friends to favour tbh. From memebers of D2 down to RA, goons, AAA, SA, SE, Iron and a few dozen individual corps out there have been involved in some things that went outside of the rules. In fact, I bet the people behind NAGA, CVA, PIE, and many other valuable parts of the community or designers of valuable third-party tools and sources of information related to Eve Online are or have been in contact with CCP employees at some point in time. Is this really what this is all about ? Knowing the above, does it really look to you that this is about finding out the truth ? Or does it just maybe look a tiny bit like someone is setting up a crusade here ? [center] Old blog
Halock	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:56:00 - [3184] So we have so far: 1. ISD member from Goon bumping BOB dread fleet - he says he didnt 2. ISD Goon told to move away, but he refuses and goes berserk on local. - told to move away when he was already 'moved away' 3. ISD Goon been expeled from ISD. - 40 seconds after Bob said 'you're fired' 4. GM doing his job and fixing a goon POS. - Noone in goon said it was broken Oo, and he could have responded to people saying that he was fixing it, instead of just deleting the petitions. 5. Goons DDSoing the EVE-O forums. - duno if they did this, but it seems that all other attempts to get noticed failed. 6. Goons spamming EVE-O. - Everyones spamming it in the wake fo this mess. 7. Goons going berserker on EVE-O forums. - Not affiliated with them ( dont even really like them tbh ), but i'm pretty upset over this issue as well. 8. Goon mass creating trial accounts to insult on EVE-O forums. - Their own accounts were banned, nothing wrogn with trying to have a voice imo. 9. Goons finally leaving EVE with their tails between their legs? - Maybe someday :)
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:56:00 - [3185] Originally by: OverKill Ok (climbs on the box) time for me to chime in... Simply put; who cares if they are cheating, who cares if they are not?!?! There is no endgame in EVE. You can never "win" like so many people claim. EVE is designed to be an everlasting labor of love for her developers and for those of us who play in this universe. It is an idea, a dream and a realization of that dream that persists whether you are online or not. They killed my dreadnaught! So what, buy another one. They have access to T2 BPOs! So what, invent some of your own and don't buy from them. They have 1000 0.0 systems and we only have 550! So what, how much room do you honestly think you need? I saw XYZ talking to GM SuperKalaFragaListic! So what, how does it REALLY affect you? How does it affect me? Well, if i belive that one of your above listed points of unfair advantages influence the chances of an alliance who fight my alliance to destroy it, then yes then i would say it affect me. If you think the things should run that way in EvE, ok then CCP please make that public that this is common rule its your right, but i guess you will loose a part of the playerbase! Overkill, go and let your head check
Trishan Minmatar Green Men Incorporated The Threshold	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:56:00 - [3186] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated. That is plainly absurd. Think about it, it is in the interest of GoonSwarm to ensure maximum visibility to the thread.
Serpensis Gallente UK Corp FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:56:00 - [3187] In the previous LV-Goonswarm war, a GM jumped in to a certain system "to look at a bugged POS", and all of a sudden all LV POS`es went off-line. Petitioned it of course, but much good that did us, accused of paranoia by the enemy. Perhaps a different set of eyes should look into it again, to see if the same GM/Dev was involved, even though the fight for that system is long lost. Another statement made my CCP in the wake of the t20 scandal, was that no employees had characters in any corps/alliances, which obviously just isnt true. CCP is taking sides in certain wars it seems. -- "Fear accompanies the possibility of death, calm sheperds its certainty."
Lumy Eve University	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:56:00 - [3188] Originally by: Itzena Prove your alliance's innocence in these matters. Wow, "Innocent unless proved otherwise" just got absolutely new meaning.
Phocas Lebournes Minmatar New Justice Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:56:00 - [3189] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****. A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated. No, posting threads on a forum is there intended use. It isnt the Goons problem if CCP cant handle free speech and therefore shut the forums down.
Arrow Jumpdrive Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:57:00 - [3190] The summary thusfar [ a humorous glance at what is ]: Goons are adamant that there is Dev misconduct in some way shape or form. They keep fanning the flames by adding snippets here and there. Drumming up ghosts of the past in a vain attempt to bring down eve ?. BoB as usual are adamant, no misconduct on their part [ although the proud, staunch arrogance is painfully apparent in most of their posts ]. The skinny: - Some DEV logged into a goonie corp, made himself a director to check the status of a [ bugged ? ] POS, after doing so... a Katana and Hari-Kari may have been an appropriate action. The shockwaves: - Finger pointing, badgering, personal attacks, smoke, mirrors, bullocks, and people threatening mass drinking games every time a finger is pointed at dev/gm/aurora misconduct. The accusations: - BoB/Devs sleeping together, first child to be named "CCCP". The current state of affairs: - MC giggling in corner sharpening sticks. - IRON still saying: "HUH, stuff actually HAPPENS in the south ?". - AXIOM asking BoB if its o.k. for them to talk to devs about reforming XETIC. - IAC passing beers/whiskey/bitter/vodka out to the rest of the eve community to keep them "sedated" for duration of cuurent ****storm. Profit margins soar. - Jita STILL has 800 ppl flogging ill gotten gains. - Mission runners getting uber loot drops as most of eve community is watching the current thread like hawks. - Small merc corps hired by "Bistot", to engage "Crokite" in a no holds barred slaughter fest.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:57:00 - [3191] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). Quote: On the Internet, a distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of compromised systems attack a single target, thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system. The flood of incoming messages to the target system essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. A hacker (or, if you prefer, ***er) begins a DDoS attack by exploiting a vulnerability in one computer system and making it the DDoS "master." It is from the master system that the intruder identifies and communicates with other systems that can be compromised. The intruder loads ***ing tools available on the Internet on multiple -- sometimes thousands of -- compromised systems. With a single command, the intruder instructs the controlled machines to launch one of many flood attacks against a specified target. The inundation of packets to the target causes a denial of service. I'm not sure what you are trying here, Denial of Service is as obvious as it gets, no matter by who or how it was performed.
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:57:00 - [3192] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****. A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated. You have no evidence to prove that ISD moderation team took down the forums to stop the inundation of threads to give Arkanon time to post his thread and stop it. There is no denying it was spam but people calling it a DDoS are at best simple and at worse disingenuous shills. You mean as disingenuous as the lastest goon replies? And oh, goons calling for proof is hillarious, you should have done that with the OP issue in the first place. So you can't prove anything and try to direct the post to an ad hominem attack right?
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:58:00 - [3193] Originally by: Itzena Prove your alliance's innocence in these matters. How ? [center] Old blog
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:59:00 - [3194] Originally by: Troubadour of course performing a DDoS attack on the forums is perfectly legal both in game and in real life. right? oh wait. Rofl. I've heard that doing DDoS attack on the forums, in real life is tricky though. Gotta find the hosting provider first, then get in, find the cage, bring buddies in with hammers... tricky. Do you even have a slightest clue what DDoS is, or you heard it somewhere, so you repeat? We have to do something about that Slashdot crowd too, they're a DDoS generator. But one thing made me laugh. If this was a DDoS then Goons were "zombies" (c) NAI (most stupid word to enter security world, ever) EDIT: Originally by: Troubadour spamming a service with packets in order to take it offline or make it unusable = DDoS. This now includes forum raiding. Hahahaha. Thanks for the laughs mate, I needed them
SterlingReps	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:59:00 - [3195] My dear citizens who are you where are you from and where are you going? What is it you hope to hold so tight in your grasp that that thing you would have only continues to slip little by little through your fingers? You call for justice but it is not justice you want. You call for reparations, but it is not reparations you want. It is a reach that exceeds your grasp Comfort without cost. Profit without the unpleasant prospect for risk or loss None of these can be had. A new order is needed and the time long at hand. I submit it is the mediocrity we live, the entropy, the stagnate state we now endure that needs be sluffed off like the dead gangrening stenched skin weÆve far too long clung too. The proof is placed right in front of you; put it to the test then. I fear the gauntlet has been dropped and you neither recognize its fall nor have the will to pick it up! The calls here are for æadministrative measuresÆ, for some perceived slight. And to the developerÆs credit, they resist the temptation. The problem is obvious and the solutions even more so. You have named it, but what will you risk? Your accumulated wealth? Your precious possessions? Will you risk all to change all and start a new? Stir predictable preset economies? Shift the boarders, allow powers to fall and give rise to the new? Will you risk beginning over stronger than before better than before? Will you risk your running position to start again to prove your worth and metal? Easy for me, given my late start and yet with so little and what little hard earned; I and others would risk far more than most. Yet, I am bold enough to think I may know a way, to solve the problem once and take the developers at their words, put the claims of open, player driven, unbiased evolving universe, to the test.
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 17:59:00 - [3196] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****. A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated. You have no evidence to prove that ISD moderation team took down the forums to stop the inundation of threads to give Arkanon time to post his thread and stop it. There is no denying it was spam but people calling it a DDoS are at best simple and at worse disingenuous shills. You mean as disingenuous as the lastest goon replies? And oh, goons calling for proof is hillarious, you should have done that with the OP issue in the first place. First off I'm not a goon. I've been through this with better people than some random bob-alt so unless you fancy posting with your main you can leave that right there. Now, you may continue with your obvious distraction about big bad things like DDoS after you've been proven wrong and or willfully ignorant.
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:01:00 - [3197] Originally by: Vantras Not ONE single BOB member sees ANYTHING wrong? not a single one is concerned about any of this? We really are playing a different game then. Every BOB post here seeks to deflect, minimize, ignore, counter-accuse, or just plain diminish the concerns of the community. If you are innocent-youd want the truth out as much as the next guy. If there are good and proper explanations for the MANY accusations in this thread..and IF the pressure is kept high enough on CCP to respond-then I reckon we will all breathe a huge sigh of relief when the truth prevails! I'll be the first one to line up and apologize if we find out that... BoB doesnt have back channel communications methods to DEV's that result in special treatment. The CCP GM was doing something totally appropriate and it was just an odd miscommunication. BoB had nothing whatsoever to do with an ISD member getting insta banned. When CCP proves all of this i will come back and make an uber apology.. odd isnt it.. like their all bots.. --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Halock	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:01:00 - [3198] Quote: What exactly was that ? You mean T20 that was caught cheating ? So like, the fact that some people that in 2003 here in a corp that is now in RA were then caught cheating means that it is both a "reasonable and easy assumption" that "they continue to have dev friendships and easy access to them, that they are going to get favours and perks" ? If so then them CCP people got one hell of a lot of friends to favour tbh. From memebers of D2 down to RA, goons, AAA, SA, SE, Iron and a few dozen individual corps out there have been involved in some things that went outside of the rules. In fact, I bet the people behind NAGA, CVA, PIE, and many other valuable parts of the community or designers of valuable third-party tools and sources of information related to Eve Online are or have been in contact with CCP employees at some point in time. Is this really what this is all about ? Knowing the above, does it really look to you that this is about finding out the truth ? Or does it just maybe look a tiny bit like someone is setting up a crusade here ? Is it safe to say that bobs stand on this is 'its only cheating if you get caught? '
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:02:00 - [3199] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). Quote: On the Internet, a distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of compromised systems attack a single target, thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system. The flood of incoming messages to the target system essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. A hacker (or, if you prefer, ***er) begins a DDoS attack by exploiting a vulnerability in one computer system and making it the DDoS "master." It is from the master system that the intruder identifies and communicates with other systems that can be compromised. The intruder loads ***ing tools available on the Internet on multiple -- sometimes thousands of -- compromised systems. With a single command, the intruder instructs the controlled machines to launch one of many flood attacks against a specified target. The inundation of packets to the target causes a denial of service. I'm not sure what you are trying here, Denial of Service is as obvious as it gets, no matter by who or how it was performed. Someone should do something about that Denial of Service thing that happens around midday every day then.
Fudgemoss	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:04:00 - [3200] Stop. Calm down. Breathe. Over reactions and overdrama only upsets everyone. It will all work out.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:04:00 - [3201] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 18:03:09 Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****. A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated. You have no evidence to prove that ISD moderation team took down the forums to stop the inundation of threads to give Arkanon time to post his thread and stop it. There is no denying it was spam but people calling it a DDoS are at best simple and at worse disingenuous shills. You mean as disingenuous as the lastest goon replies? And oh, goons calling for proof is hillarious, you should have done that with the OP issue in the first place. First off I'm not a goon. I've been through this with better people than some random bob-alt so unless you fancy posting with your main you can leave that right there. Now, you may continue with your obvious distraction about big bad things like DDoS after you've been proven wrong and or willfully ignorant. It's pretty obvious you haven't proven anything to be wrong and you know that just fine. It's kinda sad you suddenly have the urge to cry about alts when things come up you would rather not answer. Hard isn't it.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:04:00 - [3202] Originally by: Avon So, would one person using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue to accuse another person of using an inappropriate method of communication about an issue not qualify as hypocrisy in your eyes? I thought it fell exactly within the definition of hypocrisy. You like answering with questions, heh. "So, would one person using forum spam in order to accuse BoB member of using MSN messenger to (allegedly) get someone sacked not qualify as hypocrisy?" Erm... no? If they used MSN in order to communicate with a dev (and allegedly ask him to do something), yet accuse BoB of the same thing, then it'd be hypocrisy. Unless you're still so obsessed with emailing to IA, and trying to make it look like not mailing IA is same as talking directly to devs (and allegedly asking for favors, or even allegedly telling him what to do)? Originally by: Avon Or are there different levels of cheating? Erm... yes? Same like crimes. Otherwise, laws would be pretty simple. Even in stupid game like BF2 you get to see different levels of cheating, why would much more complex game limit itself to only 1 level of cheating? But then again, you strike me as a very clever chap, so I guess we'll see endless stream of counter-questions for a while
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:04:00 - [3203] Originally by: Halock Quote: What exactly was that ? You mean T20 that was caught cheating ? So like, the fact that some people that in 2003 here in a corp that is now in RA were then caught cheating means that it is both a "reasonable and easy assumption" that "they continue to have dev friendships and easy access to them, that they are going to get favours and perks" ? If so then them CCP people got one hell of a lot of friends to favour tbh. From memebers of D2 down to RA, goons, AAA, SA, SE, Iron and a few dozen individual corps out there have been involved in some things that went outside of the rules. In fact, I bet the people behind NAGA, CVA, PIE, and many other valuable parts of the community or designers of valuable third-party tools and sources of information related to Eve Online are or have been in contact with CCP employees at some point in time. Is this really what this is all about ? Knowing the above, does it really look to you that this is about finding out the truth ? Or does it just maybe look a tiny bit like someone is setting up a crusade here ? Is it safe to say that bobs stand on this is 'its only cheating if you get caught? ' Care to adress my point when you quote me ? [center] Old blog
Ragnar Black Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:04:00 - [3204] Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. I so love this post. Wouldn't you all love a dev on your msn or yahoo messenger? Could chat about anything, how things are if your out down the pub. How's everything is at work, anything new there. Could even ask for some help with some ingame problems
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:07:00 - [3205] Originally by: Nalf Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Hurrrr Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrr Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. How does that BoB***** taste? Very mature, excellent goon post though. Please come again.
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:08:00 - [3206] Originally by: Avon Originally by: eleuthereus And for the record, I know of no such interaction taking place between ANY goons and devs/GMS. If you have information to the contrary -- please please please provide it for all of us to see and examine so it, too, can be dealt with. Why would I do that? The correct procedure is to email it directly to the IA department, remember? Oh, I see. You have no information. Just made a baseless accusation --- hmmm, exactly what you are accusing Goons of doing. PERFECT -- NOW THAT IS YOUR HYPOCRISY. See, the difference? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Sheha Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:08:00 - [3207] As far as I can see this post Linkage is the one that sparked this massive discussion.. Question: where is the rest of it? If, as I suspect it has been deleted, ahem, "pending inquiries", I truly believe it should be put back. CCP vows to involve players in all aspects of gameplay and the forums are the most active and hitherto honest arenas in which this can take place. Censorship is abhorrent in all its forms, but if it is used to save face it becomes a totalitarian tool, as used by the powerful over centuries. CCP retain what many could call an amateurish approach to their player base in that they fraternize with their customers in an unprecedented way. This certainly will mean that at times the interactions will get personal and bitter... but if you are going to do it, you should really leave everything but the morally offensive, up there and in plain view and let people see for themselves what the fuss was about. Let's face it... though ultimately responsible for clearing up the mess, CCP cannot nanny each and every GM on an hourly basis. We all understand that. What we DO ask though is that when things go calamitously ** Up we may at least be allowed to follow the paper trail. That is the least a friend would do for a friend and 'our friend' is the image that CCP wishes us to perceive of them. Personally I like that I am told what's cooking, what's available and what's going on behind the scenes. Of course it matters to me that a GM plays a fast one, but it matters much more that CCP feel that we, the providers of their employment and who they would like to keep onside, are being kept in the dark about the rare negative happenings that this special relationship occasionally begets. Come on guys... the bigger the staff, the more likely and understandable it is that such abuses will happen. Your duty is twofold... firstly to prevent it if possible and second but more important, to fix it all openly and honestly** when it does. We are not all eight year olds who need sheltering from the scary truth that god is flawed or evolution is just a theory, or indeed that occasionally staff members take advantage of their positions. You (CCP) have made it through three and a half years without major scandal. Don't be afraid to open the books and clean house when it happens. You can't have it both ways. You can't have buddy buddy when things are going well and then clam up at the first sign of trouble. It goes against the apparent ethic of the organisation, against the rules of PVP and against the most basic concepts of the way the game itself is played. Player loyalty is unusually high around here... so don't chicken out over one renegade employee. Just sack them and move on... but do it in the exact same way you do everything else... in the public eye.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:09:00 - [3208] Originally by: Serpensis In the previous LV-Goonswarm war, a GM jumped in to a certain system "to look at a bugged POS", and all of a sudden all LV POS`es went off-line. Petitioned it of course, but much good that did us, accused of paranoia by the enemy. Perhaps a different set of eyes should look into it again, to see if the same GM/Dev was involved, even though the fight for that system is long lost. Another statement made my CCP in the wake of the t20 scandal, was that no employees had characters in any corps/alliances, which obviously just isnt true. CCP is taking sides in certain wars it seems. Actually, sov got bugged in the system, then the GM came in and fixed it, and then you're old alliance leaders decided to offline and online everything in the system, thats why everything went bonkers. At the same time, there was the issue where when we sieged 1v- and the towers went right back into reinforced after they came out. It's really hard to draw the line between terrible coding and bugs and corrupt GMs and Devs
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:09:00 - [3209] Originally by: Avon Originally by: eleuthereus And for the record, I know of no such interaction taking place between ANY goons and devs/GMS. If you have information to the contrary -- please please please provide it for all of us to see and examine so it, too, can be dealt with. Why would I do that? The correct procedure is to email it directly to the IA department, remember? Avon, this whole discussion is tyresome. I told some friends that I play a game in which many devs have good relations to one "guild" and that devs are allowed to play on the one and only main server of that game. The reaction was: why would anyone want to play that game if not in that "guild"? Hardly a surprising reaction, or is it? The IA department is a farce. It is of no importance. EVE is so screwed up atm that I personally think it is beyond fixing. How would or could the IA department 'fix' friendships between leaders and members of your alliance and the devs? How could the IA department prevent exchange of crucial information between these people and their dev friends? After sleeping over it, I do not see any possibility. Even if eve-mail and eve-chat between them were monitored, the devs and players in question could just use private e-mail or the phone after work. EVE is permanently broken. Nothing can be done about it anymore. If you disagree, tell me how this could be fixed. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:10:00 - [3210] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Your replies get worse by the minute, fail. More trolling with zero relevance, lose.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:11:00 - [3211] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). Quote: On the Internet, a distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of compromised systems attack a single target, thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system. The flood of incoming messages to the target system essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. A hacker (or, if you prefer, ***er) begins a DDoS attack by exploiting a vulnerability in one computer system and making it the DDoS "master." It is from the master system that the intruder identifies and communicates with other systems that can be compromised. The intruder loads ***ing tools available on the Internet on multiple -- sometimes thousands of -- compromised systems. With a single command, the intruder instructs the controlled machines to launch one of many flood attacks against a specified target. The inundation of packets to the target causes a denial of service. I'm not sure what you are trying here, Denial of Service is as obvious as it gets, no matter by who or how it was performed. That's a joke right. Are you claiming the forums went down to massive load? As I see it, they were taken offline to remove messages. Something completely different. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:11:00 - [3212] Originally by: Shivalla Originally by: ShinChan So we have so far: 1. ISD member from Goon bumping BOB dread fleet 2. ISD Goon told to move away, but he refuses and goes berserk on local. 3. ISD Goon been expeled from ISD. 4. GM doing his job and fixing a goon POS. 5. Goons DDSoing the EVE-O forums. 6. Goons spamming EVE-O. 7. Goons going berserker on EVE-O forums. 8. Goon mass creating trial accounts to insult on EVE-O forums. 9. Goons finally leaving EVE with their tails between their legs? omg, this might be the conclusion we were looking for. Tho the part 9 wont be happening according to the thread, Goons wont leave until they have ruined the game. That has been said many times already, SomethingAwful is a community which we all know more or less as being a community dedicated to do such acts of deprived griefing. I wont bother myself on it anymore, since Ill just go and pop their ships until they dont have anymore players who will be playing. Or if things blow up of proportions, I hope CCP will intervene and do something to stop the SA community¦s attempt on ruining their awesome product. ¦just my 10 cents. I dont think goons will ruin the game, if that is about to happen BoB and CCP will put their heads together and beat goonies to it. I can allready hear the beeps of MSN alerts in the distance.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:11:00 - [3213] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 18:03:09 Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****. A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated. You have no evidence to prove that ISD moderation team took down the forums to stop the inundation of threads to give Arkanon time to post his thread and stop it. There is no denying it was spam but people calling it a DDoS are at best simple and at worse disingenuous shills. You mean as disingenuous as the lastest goon replies? And oh, goons calling for proof is hillarious, you should have done that with the OP issue in the first place. First off I'm not a goon. I've been through this with better people than some random bob-alt so unless you fancy posting with your main you can leave that right there. Now, you may continue with your obvious distraction about big bad things like DDoS after you've been proven wrong and or willfully ignorant. It's pretty obvious you haven't proven anything to be wrong and you know that just fine. It's kinda sad you suddenly have the urge to cry about alts when things come up you would rather not answer. Hard isn't it. Answer what you ridiculous little troll? Your replies get worse by the minute, fail. Getting in on this pyramid while I can
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:11:00 - [3214] Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Your replies get worse by the minute, fail. More trolling with zero relevance, lose. I'm sorry, i was having a perfectly valid discussion. It was you my dear goon that came in feet first in troll mode. Try to behave and have a nice conversation.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:12:00 - [3215] Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 18:03:09 Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****. A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated. You have no evidence to prove that ISD moderation team took down the forums to stop the inundation of threads to give Arkanon time to post his thread and stop it. There is no denying it was spam but people calling it a DDoS are at best simple and at worse disingenuous shills. You mean as disingenuous as the lastest goon replies? And oh, goons calling for proof is hillarious, you should have done that with the OP issue in the first place. First off I'm not a goon. I've been through this with better people than some random bob-alt so unless you fancy posting with your main you can leave that right there. Now, you may continue with your obvious distraction about big bad things like DDoS after you've been proven wrong and or willfully ignorant. It's pretty obvious you haven't proven anything to be wrong and you know that just fine. It's kinda sad you suddenly have the urge to cry about alts when things come up you would rather not answer. Hard isn't it. Answer what you ridiculous little troll? Your replies get worse by the minute, fail. Getting in on this pyramid while I can Seconded, you might be the only goon i like
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:13:00 - [3216] Originally by: Malachon Draco That's a joke right. Are you claiming the forums went down to massive load? The forums sux so bad that it's quite possible :V
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:13:00 - [3217] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Your replies get worse by the minute, fail. More trolling with zero relevance, lose. I'm sorry, i was having a perfectly valid discussion. It was you my dear goon that came in feet first in troll mode. Try to behave and have a nice conversation. Keep 'em coming little bob-alt. Each post you make is a vindication of why a lot of people hate you and your corp.
Trishan Minmatar Green Men Incorporated The Threshold	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:14:00 - [3218] Originally by: Alias11 It's really hard to draw the line between terrible coding and bugs and corrupt GMs and Devs Specially when you might get the idea that certain bugs may be allowed to live (or put down on the priority list) due to expected strategical advantage in upcoming events, and fixed after they have ceased to be useful.
Kukki Gallente ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:14:00 - [3219] Originally by: Xalorn This is much bigger than bob versus goon. To all saying 'proof or STFU', read page 12, post 345 of this thread we are in. Regardless of all the other serious allegations, this statement made by one of the top BoB leaders is extremely dangerous to the long term well being of the game. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. The fact that he feels that having that sort of inside line into CCP is 'not a big deal' shows a lot of people exactly how disconnected from standard dev ethical conduct CCP devs are. ---In no other major MMO is such an 'inside line' allowed. ---In all other major MMO games, the existence of such an 'inside line' is grounds for immediate termination for the employee & immediate ban for the player. I'm not advocating the termination/ban of anyone, I am saying that either NOBODY gets 'special access' or EVERYONE gets 'special access'. Good to know. There is the prove that there were Chats between BoB and CCP _________________________________________________________________ Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they'
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:14:00 - [3220] Originally by: Lumy Originally by: Itzena Prove your alliance's innocence in these matters. Wow, "Innocent unless proved otherwise" just got absolutely new meaning. I linked the Napoleonic code earlier in the thread - most MMOGs codes of conduct tend to follow that rather than British law, so I thought that it might as well apply between players as well. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:15:00 - [3221] Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Halca Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Your replies get worse by the minute, fail. More trolling with zero relevance, lose. I'm sorry, i was having a perfectly valid discussion. It was you my dear goon that came in feet first in troll mode. Try to behave and have a nice conversation. Keep 'em coming little bob-alt. Each post you make is a vindication of why a lot of people hate you and your corp. First off I'm not a bob-alt. I've been through this with better people than some random goon-alt so unless you fancy posting with your main you can leave that right there.
StarSearcher	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:21:00 - [3222] Originally by: Rod Blaine snip So what remains ? There's the possibility that some people in Eve have an extra way of contacting some people at CCP. *snip I am still gonna wait for what IA find out in their research: Taking quotes and screenshots as bulletproof evidence is stupid. But I do hope you will agree with me that if ANYONE is able to get their complaints/petitions handled within a few minutes, while others has to wait in line for several days - that IS quite simply wrong. If, and I stress IF, that was what happened regarding that ISD reporter, whoever contacted CCP directly either through MSN, IRC or whatever, did a MINOR mistake. The CCP person that acted on it made a rather BIG mistake. No matter what that ISD reporter did - unless he was directly interfering with shooting / scramming / CONTINUOUS bumping of anyone (one ship bumped by accident when jumping into system really don't count imo). Regarding the POS / Sharkbait making himself director - that could really be anything. From totally innocent to really bad. If a petition was deleted without answer, that was also bad. I hope a thorough investigation will be performed - and I really, really, really hope it ends up finding no major cheating went down. If they find some staff members been cheated - major punishment MUST be performed. If said staff member behaved stupidly and gave one side an advantage, lesser punishment could be considered (like 3 month banning of their player characters).
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:22:00 - [3223] Originally by: Sergeant Spot The BoB leadership are hardcore. They always have, and always will, focus on making the best full spectrum PvP alliance possible. Their success drives their enemies to delusional breakdowns. Yes, I see. It's all clear now. Oh, thank you so much. - The T20 incident was all a delusion. - Admissions by assorted BOB members about contacting devs/GMs thru private back-door channels to get things done quicker in-game has all been a delusion. - 10/10 plex spawning at bugged intervals in 0.0 BOB space providing billions of ISk to BOB was all a delusion. Yes, yes, I see now. Thank you, thank you. Everyone go home. This was all a delusion. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Halca Candy Hearts	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:23:00 - [3224] For the record. I am Rick Astley.
Faith Black Minmatar Rolls Roids	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:23:00 - [3225] Originally by: D'Artagnan I am interested to know what would have happened if the situation had been reversed. Now lets see what would have happened if a ISD frigate had bumped a GS dread. GS pilot: leave local ISD pilot: No GS pilot writes a petition. GM reads the petition checks the logs the ISD pilot gets fired. The end result is a CCP employee gets fired for misconduct, as they are not meant to influence the game (bumping is influencing it) and if requested they are meant to leave local. Now GS pilot post thread on the forums stating how ISD were helping BoB and the community goes in to anti BoB overdrive. Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it. Does this effect the end result? Nope Maybe yes ? If you say: 'Ok, I'll call my buddy from CCP and he'll solve it for me !' and then he appears, takes your side immediatly and punishes the ISD guy, then it's not comparable to going the formal way via petition, where you normally should have to deal with a GM, who is not your friend and who investigates neutral, because he doesn't believe you more than the ISD guy. Daakon or so was obviously fully aware that his chance to solve this issue to his convenience fast is much higher, if he calls his CCP buddy via MSN. I think the local talk there was also e-peen measurement. His message is more or less clear: 'You shouldn't have messed with me, now I call my ISD friend per MSN and you are ****** !' and so it happened. That must shows that something is wrong with it and I'm quite sure that CCP comes to the same conclusion next week and that they will stop that way of premium service for friends of ISD-members or devs. I'm not against BoB, but you shouldn't believe that many customers will tolerate this 'I call my personal GM/dev via MSN' special treatment in the future. Wonder why no-one in BoB seems to see the problem with it. If you were in a newbie alliance and had to play against an established alliance, who make use of their close relation to the CCP staff to get things sorted faster, better, more satisfying for them and you wouldn't have that means, then you'd maybe also ask: 'Wtf is going on ?' I would be surprised, if CCP doesn't notice that problem themselves now and change some policies at least that things like that don't happen anymore. Guess the times of the: 'Hi friend, we are in XY- and got a problem. Can you come ?' times are over and you have to write a petition next time. ------ No.1 reason to post with an alt: Avoiding that your main looks too silly.
Devious Syn	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:26:00 - [3226] Edited by: Devious Syn on 27/05/2007 18:27:03 Ok so i'm strolling through the forums and noticed this and thought "oh, it must be one of those old thread of Devs cheating, blah blah blah". Sure enough when I check the date its from 2 days ago and I just busted out laughing thinking "Oh, its ANOTHER one of those threads of Devs cheating for (big surprise) their favorite group of players". Since the original post was deleted (instead of maybe moved) so one no can see another one of their fuk ups I had to put the pieces together from this thread. More of the same, Bob says who cares (ofc they are once again on the good end of DEV relations" while the other folks that pay just as much as them feel like they are getting screwed (ONCE AGAIN). SERIOUSLY can you guys just stop the cheating? Honestly STOP, just STOP talking to your "friends" if fanfest is where you people are developing all these "friendships" then stop fanfest. Find a way to STOP the favoritism that EVERYONE besides those who are benefiting every frckn time HATES. Eve's time is limited, solely because of the DEV's no one else. I dont understand how you can consistantly do this shat. At this point everyone knows (even if we are wrong sometimes) your cheaters please OH PLEASE find better ways of covering it up so no one finds out, ok? Its been how long now and we are still waiting on previous "findings" of Dev misconduct, give ma a flippn break.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:27:00 - [3227] Oh, I'm fairly sure that many of those people I mentioned have CCP employees or volunteers on msn as well. Or maybe not on msn, but on IRC. Or maybe they happen to live in the same street. Or maybe they regularly exchange emails on some subjects related to the game. What I mean to say is that in Eve, you can either cut off CCP from the community completely so that only the petition system and the forums offer methods of communication and feedback, or you can decide that you can trust CCP to do it right in general, and correct or punish the instances in which things go wrong. That's the choice you have. It seems rather silly to me to choose option one, seeing as how many of the content and mechanics you use every day haven't been developed exculsively by CCP, but by CCP in conjunction with players, using methods of communication like e-mail, msn or IRC. And it's not just people in BoB that contribute either. Just like there weren't devs in BoB only either, or like there's also ISD event staff outside of the CVA alliance for example. [center] Old blog
Abandon AllHope Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:27:00 - [3228] There is a good reason this guy is an EX Blizzard employee. Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase.
Denian Crow	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:29:00 - [3229] Edited by: Denian Crow on 27/05/2007 18:30:58 What Victor said. Basically: Denian: "theres this great game called EVE-Online, you gotta try it." Friend: "Oh, that space game, eh? tell me more" Denian: "yeah well, theres a vibrant market, lots of stuff to do, mine, mission, explore, pirate, etc." Friend: "What else?" Denian: "Only thing is, I got to be honest, theres a player Corporation(Guild) that is known to have friends in the Devs and some Devs are in that player Corporation..." Friend: "what the f...?" Denian: "But dont freak out, they ASSURE us no wrong doing hardly ever goes on, it's all on the up and up, every single incident is just a big misunderstanding." Friend: "Get on Rainbow Six real fast." Denian: "Why?" Friend: So I can TK your ass for being a r-e-t-a-r-d for paying for some idiocy like that..."
Devious Syn	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:33:00 - [3230] Originally by: Rod Blaine Oh, I'm fairly sure that many of those people I mentioned have CCP employees or volunteers on msn as well. Or maybe not on msn, but on IRC. Or maybe they happen to live in the same street. Or maybe they regularly exchange emails on some subjects related to the game. What I mean to say is that in Eve, you can either cut off CCP from the community completely so that only the petition system and the forums offer methods of communication and feedback, or you can decide that you can trust CCP to do it right in general, and correct or punish the instances in which things go wrong. That's the choice you have. It seems rather silly to me to choose option one, seeing as how many of the content and mechanics you use every day haven't been developed exculsively by CCP, but by CCP in conjunction with players, using methods of communication like e-mail, msn or IRC. And it's not just people in BoB that contribute either. Just like there weren't devs in BoB only either, or like there's also ISD event staff outside of the CVA alliance for example. LOL ok so, lets give a certian group (COUGHBODCOUGH) the ability to have problems fix by MSNing their "buddy" on the dev or gm team and their problem is fixed in what 2 minutes? While the rest of us who pay the same ammount as you do have to wait 2, 3 weeks someimes a month, sometimes NEVER even getting a answer. Sure I see how the choice is clear for you and the band of cheaters. GO BOD GO!!!!
Devious Syn	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:34:00 - [3231] Originally by: Denian Crow Edited by: Denian Crow on 27/05/2007 18:30:58 What Victor said. Basically: Denian: "theres this great game called EVE-Online, you gotta try it." Friend: "Oh, that space game, eh? tell me more" Denian: "yeah well, theres a vibrant market, lots of stuff to do, mine, mission, explore, pirate, etc." Friend: "What else?" Denian: "Only thing is, I got to be honest, theres a player Corporation(Guild) that is known to have friends in the Devs and some Devs are in that player Corporation..." Friend: "what the f...?" Denian: "But dont freak out, they ASSURE us no wrong doing hardly ever goes on, it's all on the up and up, every single incident is just a big misunderstanding." Friend: "Get on Rainbow Six real fast." Denian: "Why?" Friend: So I can TK your ass for being a r-e-t-a-r-d for paying for some idiocy like that..." lmao
Legolad	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:34:00 - [3232] I've only just started playing EVE again recently. I was hoping to entice some of my friends to join me. Maybe even start our own corp. Then we started seeing all the stories about how CCP employees were cheating in the Role-Playing and PvP events. The stories talk about how CCP QA and Aurora developers were helping the Band of Brothers (aka BoB) corporation rig events. They also talk about how some CCP employees and BoB members are abusing their friendship to harass and even ban some players without ever going through the process of reporting those players. I don't know how much, if any, of this is true. But I will know something about how you run CCP by the way you answer this post. It's time for some sunlight, CCP. If this is all just sour grapes from a few whiners, please show us how you know that. If there's any truth to the stories, please tell and show us exactly what you are doing about it. I have had absolutely nothing to do with any of these corps. I've never even been in an event. I have no stake in any of the outcomes with one singular exception: I play EVE Online and I want to keep playing. I LOVE THIS GAME. I don't want to leave again. I'm so excited to be back. That said, if CCP can't find a way show the entire EVE community that it is free of this alleged corruption, then why should any of us play? Notice, I am not claiming that this has happened. I am only asking CCP to answer these questions: 1. What specifically are you doing to ensure that your employees do not rig the game for their own corps or their friends? 2. How do you investigate charges of corruption? 3. What is your policy regarding employees who rig the game for their own benefit or that of their friends? 4. Have you investigated these allegations of corruption? a. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=405843 b. http://www.digg.com/pc_games/EVE_Creators_CCP_Under_Fire_Again_for_Alleged_Corruption_Open_Letter_Made 5. If you have investigated, what were your findings and what actions, if any, did you take? 6. If corruption was found, what measures are you taking to prevent this from happening again? Thank you for your excellent game and all your hard work. I look forward to your response. Legolad
Lazuri Caldari Pale Riders Incorporated	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:35:00 - [3233] Originally by: Breaky Rules Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****. A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated. Prove it. Just that statement shows that you have no idea who the Goons are. Sucess is never promised to anyone, but failure is certain for those who never try.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:36:00 - [3234] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phocas Lebournes Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you **. A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated. Quickly Blacklight - notify FBI about Slashdot, they are basically a permanent DDoS generator. Don't let them get away! According to you, DDoS'ers are also people who run to news sites when something bad happens, or people who download new version of software as it comes out, blah, blah, blah. Please, don't put up crap you don't really know about. Something is considered DDoS when it's automated** (hell, you can use certain tool that comes with Apache, and not bother even making any scripts/tools), not when many people make requests. By your logic, we are all performing DDoS on DNS servers too. And btw, forum was brought down by mods (from what I understood), it was still SERVING content before it was brought down. Or so it was said, so...
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:37:00 - [3235] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/05/2007 18:38:12 Quote: LOL ok so, lets give a certian group (COUGHBODCOUGH) the ability to have problems fix by MSNing their "buddy" on the dev or gm team and their problem is fixed in what 2 minutes? While the rest of us who pay the same ammount as you do have to wait 2, 3 weeks someimes a month, sometimes NEVER even getting a answer. Sure I see how the choice is clear for you and the band of cheaters. GO BOD GO!!!! sigh... Sure, it's wrong to use these "extra" channels of communication for things that should go via normal petition. However, try petitioning ISD reporter misconduct using the "exploit" category on a weekday at peak time and see wether it takes three weeks before someone answers or not. You'll have an answer within 10 minutes, just like I would. Yes that's the only right way to solve it, but don't turn the possible incorrect usage of another channel into more then it actually is please. That's my contribution for today btw. The length of this thread makes replying useless anyway, but as usual I couldn't leave it alone regardless edit: to the guy saying he was new and all that a few posts above. The stories about the rigged events do not involve BoB at all. Read them more carefully. [center] Old blog

Ivan Kirilenkov Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:38:00 - [3236] Please check out this forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:40:00 - [3237] \o/ Page 126 >>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:40:00 - [3238] Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please check out this Good news. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Makran Caldari Rome SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:41:00 - [3239] Edited by: Makran on 27/05/2007 18:42:03 Edited by: Makran on 27/05/2007 18:40:00 Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please check out this Interesting.... ===== Space-Ninjas are mammals too.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:41:00 - [3240] Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please check out this Nice update. /me counts down to the onset of denial Oh, and how about them apologies goons ? [center] Old blog

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:43:00 - [3241] Originally by: Verone \o/ Page 126 126 ___ Questions/Complaints/Opinions/Bree \| Forum Rules \| Our Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER

Nehalennia Mellona GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:43:00 - [3242] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please check out this Good news. It's funny that the CEO of DS1 was completely confused by the GM's actions, had no idea why the GM would have done it, and all attempts to petition for an answer or ask the GM directly were ignored.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:44:00 - [3243] Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please check out this Rofl. 1. Why was DS1's petition to find out more details deleted? 2. Why noone responded to their petition? 3. blah, blah, blah If DS1 never sent a petition to ask for more details, then say so too. This is a joke...
JonLuc McPew	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:44:00 - [3244] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please check out this Good news. Of course it is to you. To the rest of us it's just the same ole same ole.
John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:46:00 - [3245] Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please check out this Again, I have to ask you: Quote: This instance was brought about as the result of a player-submitted petition. Sharkbait joined the corporation to investigate and resolve an issue reported by a member of the corporation in question. While the method may be viewed as unorthodox, the information gained is vital to the continued QA effort and enjoyment of EVE by the corporation in question. Our investigation shows Sharkbait was not involved in any malicious or nefarious actions requiring administrative action. Regardless of a petition, did Sharkbait advise the CEO/s that the only/best way to solve their problem was to join their corp or did he make an arbitary decision to join to do that? To be honest, I question whether there is actual bias in this case or whether again it was simple niavity on CCP's behalf. You really need to take a look at your procedures and re-evalate them. Whilst you may have someones best interests at heart, you have to look at how your actions are percieved, especially in the current climate. Additionally, removing a thread with allegations on it was just plain foolishness. I understand that the forums went wild with the thread but what should of happend was the thread had a reply with a statement such as is in the news and the thread locked. That way people can see the allegation, see that it's being investigated and await an outcome. Deleting the thread altogether is simply adding fuel to the fire and lends credence to the consipiricy theorists. Make a Difference
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:47:00 - [3246] Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 18:46:50 The update states: "This instance was brought about as the result of a player-submitted petition. Sharkbait joined the corporation to investigate and resolve an issue reported by a member of the corporation in question. While the method may be viewed as unorthodox, the information gained is vital to the continued QA effort and enjoyment of EVE by the corporation in question." Now, obviously, the questions are: WHO in Darkstar 1 petitioned? WHAT was the petitin about and dd it have to be checked out in such a manner? WHY has the Goon, whoever it was, not spoken up and said, "hey guys, I filed a petition about XYZ, maybe he came in about that"? My public request to all fellow Goons -- Did any of you out there send a petition that might have required Sharkbait to join. If you're out there, you better speak up quick, cause you should have spoken up 125+ pages ago. Yoo hoo? Of course, if there really is no such goon out there, then we have more questions. I'm trying to be impartial here. I hope that comes across. And as John McCreedy has rightly stated, even if there was good reason to do what was done, Sharkbait failed to notify Darkstar 1 leaders so all of this oculd have been avoided. So, let's se what shakes out now -- either way. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:47:00 - [3247] Originally by: Eldo Davip Originally by: Verone \o/ Page 126 126 <3 Right about now, I'm so glad I don't have your job >>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:47:00 - [3248] Originally by: Denian Crow Edited by: Denian Crow on 27/05/2007 18:30:58 What Victor said. Basically: Denian: "theres this great game called EVE-Online, you gotta try it." Friend: "Oh, that space game, eh? tell me more" Denian: "yeah well, theres a vibrant market, lots of stuff to do, mine, mission, explore, pirate, etc." Friend: "What else?" Denian: "Only thing is, I got to be honest, theres a player Corporation(Guild) that is known to have friends in the Devs and some Devs are in that player Corporation..." Friend: "what the f...?" Denian: "But dont freak out, they ASSURE us no wrong doing hardly ever goes on, it's all on the up and up, every single incident is just a big misunderstanding." Friend: "Get on Rainbow Six real fast." Denian: "Why?" Friend: So I can TK your ass for being a r-e-t-a-r-d for paying for some idiocy like that..." Can't help but smile at this one --
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:48:00 - [3249] Originally by: boeses frettchen Edited by: boeses frettchen on 27/05/2007 18:43:31 @Avon What would be ur solution to fix broken trust towards ccp? I dunno, would a hug help? The trust is lost because of threads like this. It doesn't matter what the facts are, just so long as some of the mud sticks. Sad really. Now that we have an update we are going to get lots of: "We want the truth .. no, not that truth .. the other truth, the one we wanted, not the actual truth", posts. Why? Becuase there are people in this community who want to foster a sense of unease under the pretense of justice. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
NereSky Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:48:00 - [3250] obviously this depends on the size of the rug , but how much can one actually sweep under there before other stuff emerges from the other side?
DrCous Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:49:00 - [3251] Hilarious, I've quited wow because of the cheating player community and joined eve this year. Now only to find out that the devs/gms' are the cheating community here.
StarSearcher	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:50:00 - [3252] Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/05/2007 18:38:12 Quote: LOL ok so, lets give a certian group (COUGHBODCOUGH) the ability to have problems fix by MSNing their "buddy" on the dev or gm team and their problem is fixed in what 2 minutes? While the rest of us who pay the same ammount as you do have to wait 2, 3 weeks someimes a month, sometimes NEVER even getting a answer. Sure I see how the choice is clear for you and the band of cheaters. GO BOD GO!!!! sigh... Sure, it's wrong to use these "extra" channels of communication for things that should go via normal petition. However, try petitioning ISD reporter misconduct using the "exploit" category on a weekday at peak time and see wether it takes three weeks before someone answers or not. You'll have an answer within 10 minutes, just like I would. Yes that's the only right way to solve it, but don't turn the possible incorrect usage of another channel into more then it actually is please. That's my contribution for today btw. The length of this thread makes replying useless anyway, but as usual I couldn't leave it alone regardless edit: to the guy saying he was new and all that a few posts above. The stories about the rigged events do not involve BoB at all. Read them more carefully. I don't mean to imply that BoB have received "special" care with "MSN Petitions" - I don't even know for a fact IF they even "filled out" such petitions. I would like to stress the importance of any, and I mean ANY, petitions not sent the formal way should be sent to the same queue as all other petitions through ingame system. This does of course not include general stuff, bugs, suggestion and such things - but only stuff VS other ppl or for reimbursements, stuck character and things like that.
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:50:00 - [3253] Originally by: Scatim Helicon Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 27/05/2007 17:04:23 Well, now my forum ban has lapsed... Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina Arkanon, i think it's time for some heads to roll; gm, player and dev alike. This list of heads includes but is not limited to: T20, admiral crajdasjfgsdkjfsd, orange species, sharkbait and the various other players/devs that have direct contact with the opposed parties to manipulate the way EVE's sandbox evolves. In this case, I see no reason why OS has to go (much as I'd like to see one less POS-bowler in our space). If the 'MSN-gate' allegation is true, its hardly Orange Species' fault for using a means of communication made available to him; the fault lies with whoever was on the other end of that communication and acted on it. I can make all sorts of ridiculous and unreasonable requests of my friends (whether its asking a CCP employee to fire ISD members for spurious reasons, or asking a bank manager to slip me a few thousand pounds from the vault), the onus is on them to act responsibly and professionally and tell me to go through the proper channels or get lost. Likewise Sharkbait, right now we have no evidence he's actually done anything malicious. If BoB were to drop a dreadfleet on one of DS1's POS sites next week then his actions will be seen in a different light and I'll be extremely suspicious, but currently the most you can say is that to not inform the members of DS1 of his actions in advance or even respond to their communications afterwards was the wrong way to go about things. T20 of course should have been sacked on the spot when the first misconduct came to light. Quote: I have no problem with EVE devs having various friends, or even gamer friends, i do have a problem however when the friends of devs are eve players that, due to their buddy buddy relationship, can get the devs to act in their interest, to boost the players e-peen or whatever. Agreed, but in hindsight it was extremely niave of CCP to create a game with the ruthless and politicised atmosphere of EVE, and then to recruit their employees and GMs from the various partisan factions within the game and expect them to remain entirely impartial with what seems to be minimal accountability or monitoring. We've all seen how participants on all sides of this game tend to demonise their opponents (a natural phenomenon in all forms of warfare, after all), is it really so unexpected that employees recruited from this atmosphere would carry over their preconceptions as GMs and help out their friends and former corpmates or developers against 'the bad guys'? Edit: bah, damn corp ticker. I'm Goonfleet, in case you hadn't guessed. I understand your feelings perfectly, but to this date my gripe is that the players and devs/gm accused of various ill doings are in no trouble whatsoever, the best we can get at this point is a scapegoat being banned or set on a stake for all to see, with no real impact to the problem. IMO, these accused persons should be locked ( ie. baned ) until the investigation is completed, there's no other way considering how low my trust in CCP has sunk, i'm shure other feel the same way. You don't let a suspected mass murderer run free while you take the legal steps in investigating the accusations against him , now do you ? Regarding T20, you don't keep a bank director that stole from the banks clients and gave to his friends the stolen items? Also the friends could be considered accomplices to theft for not informing the proper authorities and admitting the deed only 6 months later. The police would also start the legal machine to remove the stolen items, fine the theft accomplices and send them to prosecution and eventually even jail depending on the gravity. Only the removal of the stolen item has transpired to the general EVE populace. I could express my feelings all day, the problem is nothing is happening, dead cat under the rug. snip - Image not appropriate for eve-o forums - hutch true amarr tank shields!
Fiendish Lo Eve University	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:51:00 - [3254] Originally by: "Sergeant Spot" Predictions: 1. CCP will add an internal rule that ISD are prohibited from acting on any information recieved by non-standard methods. (all in all, wise. To date, no one has shown any improper pro-bob ISD conduct on the actual execution of their duties in this scandle, the only "improper conduct" was how they were contacted, not anything they did. Still, the non-standard contact was not a good thing (no one debates that in spite of the lies posted here), and something that will no doubt be fixed). (However, improper ANTI-bob conduct was shown, but thats obviously not important) That would be a good thing, and it's to be hoped that your prediction bears fruit. Quote: 2. The anti-bob whining will continue. The BoB leadership are hardcore. They always have, and always will, focus on making the best full spectrum PvP alliance possible. Their success drives their enemies to delusional breakdowns. You realize that I could, because a couple of your leaders are such fools, ask whether your prediction is based on instant messaging discussions with the developers. I won't ask that question, though, because it would be unfair. Really man, your top guys may be the best in-game tacticians and strategists, but this weekend Dianabolic and Orange Species (even showing up in this thread was stupid on his part) have done as much to hurt your cause as the Goons and a hacker who must not be named. That was terrible, terrible public relations on your side's part. One wonders, assuming that Eve recovers from this, how many recruits the Goons will gain from this debacle.
Pampinus Medusae	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:52:00 - [3255] Originally by: Xeus909 Edited by: Xeus909 on 27/05/2007 18:45:21 Originally by: Devious Syn Edited by: Devious Syn on 27/05/2007 18:27:03 Ok so i'm strolling through the forums and noticed this and thought "oh, it must be one of those old thread of Devs cheating, blah blah blah". Sure enough when I check the date its from 2 days ago and I just busted out laughing thinking "Oh, its ANOTHER one of those threads of Devs cheating for (big surprise) their favorite group of players". Since the original post was deleted (instead of maybe moved) so one no can see another one of their fuk ups I had to put the pieces together from this thread. More of the same, Bob says who cares (ofc they are once again on the good end of DEV relations" while the other folks that pay just as much as them feel like they are getting screwed (ONCE AGAIN). SERIOUSLY can you guys just stop the cheating? Honestly STOP, just STOP talking to your "friends" if fanfest is where you people are developing all these "friendships" then stop fanfest. Find a way to STOP the favoritism that EVERYONE besides those who are benefiting every frckn time HATES. Eve's time is limited, solely because of the DEV's no one else. I dont understand how you can consistantly do this shat. At this point everyone knows (even if we are wrong sometimes) your cheaters please OH PLEASE find better ways of covering it up so no one finds out, ok? Its been how long now and we are still waiting on previous "findings" of Dev misconduct, give ma a flippn break. well because you were out of the loop for a few days, here are a few links you should read to get caught back up. First, a well written document that details 3 instances we wanted CCP to address. snip Second, a very brief statement by CCP to try and gain control of their forums. Response 1 Third, a document released today which will undoubtedly cause more grief for CCP than they can possibly imagine! Biggest piece of **** I have ever read! I can't find this 3rd one? Wehre is it?
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:52:00 - [3256] Originally by: Earthan Edited by: Earthan on 27/05/2007 18:45:25 Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/05/2007 18:38:12 Quote: LOL ok so, lets give a certian group (COUGHBODCOUGH) the ability to have problems fix by MSNing their "buddy" on the dev or gm team and their problem is fixed in what 2 minutes? While the rest of us who pay the same ammount as you do have to wait 2, 3 weeks someimes a month, sometimes NEVER even getting a answer. Sure I see how the choice is clear for you and the band of cheaters. GO BOD GO!!!! sigh... Sure, it's wrong to use these "extra" channels of communication for things that should go via normal petition. However, try petitioning ISD reporter misconduct using the "exploit" category on a weekday at peak time and see wether it takes three weeks before someone answers or not. You'll have an answer within 10 minutes, just like I would. Yes that's the only right way to solve it, but don't turn the possible incorrect usage of another channel into more then it actually is please. That's my contribution for today btw. The length of this thread makes replying useless anyway, but as usual I couldn't leave it alone regardless edit: to the guy saying he was new and all that a few posts above. The stories about the rigged events do not involve BoB at all. Read them more carefully. Come on what the heck are you writing here?? I always held you as a reasoanble person. You say that ok it was wrong to use msn channel for this overall, but because it would take ages he did the right thing to call on msn. So basicly others what would experience a problem and dont have buddies in CCP would have to wait 3 weeks but you will get CCP attention in 10 mins cause you got buddies and its all fair and great Whoah, hold on there earthan buddy. Read it again, I said petitions of this type, made by any normal player just like me (i have no msn line to a dev), are typically resolved within ten minutes. What I said is that using msn for it would be wrong imo, but that the difference it makes is not worth this ****storm. Now, if it would be an improper removal of the ISD guy involved (which it probably wasn't, he involved himself in player conflict and broke ISD rules governing interaction of reporters with the playerbase), or if there was something else going on (like actual favouritism with measurable positive result for the favoured person), then there'd be reason to whine. But not now. [center] Old blog
Earthan Gallente The Absolutely Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:52:00 - [3257] Originally by: Avon Originally by: boeses frettchen Edited by: boeses frettchen on 27/05/2007 18:43:31 @Avon What would be ur solution to fix broken trust towards ccp? I dunno, would a hug help? The trust is lost because of threads like this. It doesn't matter what the facts are, just so long as some of the mud sticks. Sad really. Now that we have an update we are going to get lots of: "We want the truth .. no, not that truth .. the other truth, the one we wanted, not the actual truth", posts. Why? Becuase there are people in this community who want to foster a sense of unease under the pretense of justice. well its like this alwys. Dont you feel even a bit worried it might be true??I cant believe no bob has said "looks fishy good they are investigating it".You only ridiculize it... I dont know if itsa case or not but the facts showed here sure sounds fishy imho and worthy of investigation. - Killing Eve bullies all over the galaxy
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:53:00 - [3258] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Eldo Davip Originally by: Verone \o/ Page 126 126 <3 Right about now, I'm so glad I don't have your job I hear if it gets to 150, we all get a T2 Ship; 200 we get a T2 BPO; and 500 is Titan's for all! What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Plim Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:53:00 - [3259] Originally by: Avon Originally by: boeses frettchen Edited by: boeses frettchen on 27/05/2007 18:43:31 @Avon What would be ur solution to fix broken trust towards ccp? I dunno, would a hug help? The trust is lost because of threads like this. It doesn't matter what the facts are, just so long as some of the mud sticks. Sad really. Now that we have an update we are going to get lots of: "We want the truth .. no, not that truth .. the other truth, the one we wanted, not the actual truth", posts. Why? Becuase there are people in this community who want to foster a sense of unease under the pretense of justice. So you are saying these issues should have been ignored and not discussed? Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
Earthan Gallente The Absolutely Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:54:00 - [3260] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Earthan Edited by: Earthan on 27/05/2007 18:45:25 Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/05/2007 18:38:12 Quote: LOL ok so, lets give a certian group (COUGHBODCOUGH) the ability to have problems fix by MSNing their "buddy" on the dev or gm team and their problem is fixed in what 2 minutes? While the rest of us who pay the same ammount as you do have to wait 2, 3 weeks someimes a month, sometimes NEVER even getting a answer. Sure I see how the choice is clear for you and the band of cheaters. GO BOD GO!!!! sigh... Sure, it's wrong to use these "extra" channels of communication for things that should go via normal petition. However, try petitioning ISD reporter misconduct using the "exploit" category on a weekday at peak time and see wether it takes three weeks before someone answers or not. You'll have an answer within 10 minutes, just like I would. Yes that's the only right way to solve it, but don't turn the possible incorrect usage of another channel into more then it actually is please. That's my contribution for today btw. The length of this thread makes replying useless anyway, but as usual I couldn't leave it alone regardless edit: to the guy saying he was new and all that a few posts above. The stories about the rigged events do not involve BoB at all. Read them more carefully. Come on what the heck are you writing here?? I always held you as a reasoanble person. You say that ok it was wrong to use msn channel for this overall, but because it would take ages he did the right thing to call on msn. So basicly others what would experience a problem and dont have buddies in CCP would have to wait 3 weeks but you will get CCP attention in 10 mins cause you got buddies and its all fair and great Whoah, hold on there earthan buddy. Read it again, I said petitions of this type, made by any normal player just like me (i have no msn line to a dev), are typically resolved within ten minutes. What I said is that using msn for it would be wrong imo, but that the difference it makes is not worth this ****storm. Now, if it would be an improper removal of the ISD guy involved (which it probably wasn't, he involved himself in player conflict and broke ISD rules governing interaction of reporters with the playerbase), or if there was something else going on (like actual favouritism with measurable positive result for the favoured person), then there'd be reason to whine. But not now. Ok sorry then mistunderstood. Have you read that open letter?It sure sounds disturbing.. - Killing Eve bullies all over the galaxy
UnIQu3 Amarr DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:56:00 - [3261] Edited by: UnIQu3 on 27/05/2007 18:58:56 Arkonon - could you please send our ceo a mail stating what happened in details? Who petitioned and so on. And no - we didnt have any bugged posses... and further more, shouldnt you do some questions to the CEO? We really want to help out solve this issue... but it seems you guys stonewalled everything :(
waiting	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:57:00 - [3262] Will the corp. be allowed to response to this? Surely if asked they would have been keen to solve to the problem, but giving yourself rights, then deleting a petition enquiring about what is going on!!!!!! CCP Arkanon, sorry your response is just not good enough, surely you can admit to bad practice and agree to change staff procedure, why was the petition deleted and why didn't you keep the corp in the loop as to what is going on, it just makes your reply look all the more lame.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:58:00 - [3263] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 18:59:08 Originally by: Avon Now that we have an update we are going to get lots of: "We want the truth .. no, not that truth .. the other truth, the one we wanted, not the actual truth", posts. Why? Because we still have not had answers to the questions of who made the petition, why the CEO of the corp was not informed and why petitions related to the incident were deleted. Much like we still have not had an answer as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace
boeses frettchen 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:58:00 - [3264] Originally by: Avon Originally by: boeses frettchen Edited by: boeses frettchen on 27/05/2007 18:43:31 @Avon What would be ur solution to fix broken trust towards ccp? I dunno, would a hug help? The trust is lost because of threads like this. It doesn't matter what the facts are, just so long as some of the mud sticks. Sad really. Now that we have an update we are going to get lots of: "We want the truth .. no, not that truth .. the other truth, the one we wanted, not the actual truth", posts. Why? Becuase there are people in this community who want to foster a sense of unease under the pretense of justice. so u telling me, that u have no solution to fix eve? Its all our own fault?
She Storm Minmatar The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:59:00 - [3265] Ok CCP is already replying in the newest news item. BUT They are saying that Sharkbait joined the corp "in response to a player petition" When the corp in question has already stated that there was no petition filed, and there were no pos problems. Basically, We will never get the truth,now either CCP is lying or the corp is lying or the corp doesn't know what it's own members are doing. I don't know..... I think it's time I started trying to find a different place to play, and get rid of my 3 accounts. This just isn't fun anymore, and it really saddens me as I play 10 to 14 hours daily., and now I need to find something else to do with my time. I just can't play a game when you have to wonder at almost every step, if things are on the up and up.
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 18:59:00 - [3266] In response to the update on the investigation just released by CCp (here) I have requested on Goonswarm forums for any and all goons to check their petitions so we can find out what led to this infiltration of Darkstar 1 by Sharkbait. In an effort to be transparent and show good faith, here is my post: ---------- Ok, here is the MAJOR question now ---->> WHO IN DARKSTAR 1 SENT A PETITION IN? WHAT WAS THAT PETITION ABOUT? All Goons -- plz plz plz check you petitions you sent in and check your petition replies to see if any of you were the cause of Sharkbait joining Darkstar 1. This is very very important to find out. ----- Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Necessitas Postverta	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:00:00 - [3267] Scene: The office of CCP Arkanon Arkanon sits at his desk, in front of his computer. He opens an e-mail: Quote: Hey dude, please investigate these allegations against GM Sharkbait Arkanon: Here I come to save the day! Arkanon leaps up, strikes a superhero pose, and rushes off down the hallway. Cut to Sharkbait's office Sharkbait is in his office, in front of his computer, playing EVE. Arkanon rushes into the room, loose papers on Sharkbait's desk rise up in a flurry. Before Sharkbait can even react, Arkanon comes to a dead stop and violently swings one arm in Sharkbait's direction. A single finger is pointed menacingly. Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait: Dude. Arkanon: Okay, yeah, anyways why did you join Darkstar 1 and give yourself directorship? Sharkbait: They petitioned me about something. Arkanon: Oh ok, that's cool, you just saved CCP the company a lot of embarressment. Sharkbait: Yeah dude, any time, btw you really have to see my latest ASCII art. Arkanon: Maybe later, I've got to let people know that things are legit. Arkanon? More like Sherlockanon!
Samuel Freedom Minmatar Ramdon Industries corporation	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:02:00 - [3268] I can't believe we have people from the community defending Meta Gaming
Bi Tor	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:02:00 - [3269] Originally by: Richard Johannson I really dont know, but was the guy who recived the BPO's from T20 banned for Eula violation? I am pretty sure if he were a member of Goonswarm he would. But as i say i dont know if he was banned and if the ISK he gained due to that fraud was collected. Other people get banned if they say the forums are down due to an open letter. -Eula violation- Maybe its a different kind of thing if you make billions of isk due to cheating. -Eula violation- Double judgement? Heres the real kick for this one. Not only should the receivers account be banned but so should all of the accounts of the accomplices. Also all of those BPO's and the ISK generated for those BPO's and every item (mod, hull or action) gained from those BPO's needs to be destroyed in place. The precedent for this is the removal of assets from players that received gifts from a player that purchased ISK on E-Bay. I'm sorry but due to the fact that it appears that this contamination has been an on going action for in access of 18 months this would probably wipe-out the BoB Alliance, its pet Alliance and any hired Mercenary corporation. Unfortunately at a minimum they have received illegal goods and at worst they are party to the illegal acts themselves. Believe me, I firmly believe that this investigation needs to continue into all Dev/Player interaction and this type of judgment needs to happen to ALL offending parties in EVERY Alliance or Corporation that is found to have used elicit Dev/Player contacts to produce inappropriate gains. Due to the rate of profit and the effective use of assets the damage done by not immediately removing the BPO's is staggering. It is possible to make 30%+ profit per hour. That means that the income form just the BPO's is distributed into everything from mining and mission running to PvP to buying those Implants. Now we look at the possibility that they have had extra support to help their cause in the form of information and direct intervention and I start to wonder why these uber-powerful players are undefeatable. When you are protected and favored of the GODS you can and will do anything you want. Which may explain why a certain member of BoB was willing to state publicly that he has direct MSN access to a Dev and to is all he needs to git rids of an ISD pest. Bite Me! Bi`Tor
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:09:00 - [3270] Originally by: Ovale 99.9% of EVE accounts don't care about this. Including me. I can see how you dont care!
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:09:00 - [3271] Originally by: Erik Amirault Oh hey, Erik here. NO ONE SENT A PETITION ABOUT POS'S. So why don't you come up with another horse-**** excuse. To be fair, if you were that goon and you didn't admit it until now, would you? I'd be pretty petrified. CCP should still privately communicate all those details to DS1. Of course, they won't, and this s&&&storm will continue to escalate.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:09:00 - [3272] Originally by: eleuthereus In response to the update on the investigation just released by CCp (here) I have requested on Goonswarm forums for any and all goons to check their petitions so we can find out what led to this infiltration of Darkstar 1 by Sharkbait. In an effort to be transparent and show good faith, here is my post: ---------- Ok, here is the MAJOR question now ---->> WHO IN DARKSTAR 1 SENT A PETITION IN? WHAT WAS THAT PETITION ABOUT? All Goons -- plz plz plz check you petitions you sent in and check your petition replies to see if any of you were the cause of Sharkbait joining Darkstar 1. This is very very important to find out. ----- Perhaps you should have thought about doing so before you set the forum on fire Let us know the result of your internal investigations, but since we don't trust you, if you find no wrongdoings we'll take that as you lying..... (hmmm, why does this sound awfully familiar???) Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Platinum Kitten	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:10:00 - [3273] Originally by: eleuthereus In response to the update on the investigation just released by CCp (here) I have requested on Goonswarm forums for any and all goons to check their petitions so we can find out what led to this infiltration of Darkstar 1 by Sharkbait. In an effort to be transparent and show good faith, here is my post: ---------- Ok, here is the MAJOR question now ---->> WHO IN DARKSTAR 1 SENT A PETITION IN? WHAT WAS THAT PETITION ABOUT? All Goons -- plz plz plz check you petitions you sent in and check your petition replies to see if any of you were the cause of Sharkbait joining Darkstar 1. This is very very important to find out. ----- a reasonable request.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:10:00 - [3274] Originally by: Avon Originally by: eleuthereus And for the record, I know of no such interaction taking place between ANY goons and devs/GMS. If you have information to the contrary -- please please please provide it for all of us to see and examine so it, too, can be dealt with. Why would I do that? The correct procedure is to email it directly to the IA department, remember? I've missed a lot, so could someone tell me where this policy is laid out?
Xeus909 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:11:00 - [3275] CCP lied, EVE died
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:11:00 - [3276] Originally by: OverKill Originally by: Mr Friendly Perhaps you could tell me why you are content to do so? I'm serious and I actually am curious. We don't have the same intuitions, and your point about 'imagination' isn't really expressed fully. I had this huge long post all done up, quoting your various parts and responding to those that required it but this damn forum software is very limited with the amount of space that it allows you to use (characters left and all that blah blah). For that, I appologize as your post was well thought out and deserving of a response. So if you do want to discuss this contact me ingame and I'll give you an email address that we can discuss further. As for the last bit... My imagination? Sure, I'll express further. I enjoy making ships, I enjoy selling ships to players who wish to use my services, I enjoy the organizational aspects of running a Corporation, I enjoy the interaction with both clients and associate corp members, I enjoy researching new technologies, I enjoy fighting when I have to and leading groups of men into battle (win or lose), I enjoy the hunt of a lone pirate, I enjoy the achievement of skill progression beyond 52m sp, I enjoy having major players in the universal wars approach HDY and negotiate for ship supply deals, I enjoy all the facets that make EVE what it is for me, a great and ever evolving experience. Someone cheating doesn't detract from any of this, at least not for me. You see, whether the developers give you 10 titans with which to kill 2,000 ships I know that they aren't my ships, nor that of my Corporation. I know that someone is going to be looking to purchase no vessels and I know that I supply them. For me, I find out what the system is and I work with it. "He who walks in the river downstream will walk a lot further than he who attempts to walk against the current" and all that sort of jazz. - Regards, OverKill Thank you for the response. On a side note, I agree about the forum. I keep finding myself botching up the formating and reaching 0 characters remaining, forcing self-editing. I guess that's for the best as I'd end up with these gigantic rambling walls of text otherwise ;). I suppose in a functional or pragmatic way, there is little difference between people that cheat and people like myself when our separate spheres of activity either don't interact, or only peripheral do so. Indeed, I suppose I could make the same sort of relation between a corrupt game and myself. Both are outside of my control, both can force me to adapt to their conditions and when those 'conditions' don't force me into doing something I loathe, then it isn't a substantive matter whether they 'win' or not via cheating. Certainly I will never control large swathes of 0.0, pilot a titan or do many of the things some 'important' members of Eve do on a regular basis. Regardless of how they achieved those things, they are peripheral to MY game actions and vica versa. Certainly, if I jump into 0.0 and encounter a gate camp, their guns will shoot at me regardless of whether they acquired those guns 'legally' or not. In a real sense, it doesn't matter, except that I am being shot. That said, my intuitions flare up when, in a game, people stoop to cheating. It's not a sense of moral outrage, but is more a sense of pity and disgust. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's like cheating at cards when there's no money on the table. It's made all the more pathetic by its lack of consequences. Anyways, I'm glad you aren't being annoyed by this as much as I. Peace. p.s. this is the most interested I've been in Eve for a good while. Ironic. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:11:00 - [3277] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: eleuthereus In response to the update on the investigation just released by CCp (here) I have requested on Goonswarm forums for any and all goons to check their petitions so we can find out what led to this infiltration of Darkstar 1 by Sharkbait. In an effort to be transparent and show good faith, here is my post: ---------- Ok, here is the MAJOR question now ---->> WHO IN DARKSTAR 1 SENT A PETITION IN? WHAT WAS THAT PETITION ABOUT? All Goons -- plz plz plz check you petitions you sent in and check your petition replies to see if any of you were the cause of Sharkbait joining Darkstar 1. This is very very important to find out. ----- Perhaps you should have thought about doing so before you set the forum on fire Let us know the result of your internal investigations, but since we don't trust you, if you find no wrongdoings we'll take that as you lying..... (hmmm, why does this sound awfully familiar???) They DID already do it! This is a last ditch effort now that CCP is contradicting them in public and appearing to lie in their eyes. I'm glad that they're being this accomodating.
JADE DRAG0NESS Native Freshfood	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:11:00 - [3278] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: eleuthereus In response to the update on the investigation just released by CCp (here) I have requested on Goonswarm forums for any and all goons to check their petitions so we can find out what led to this infiltration of Darkstar 1 by Sharkbait. In an effort to be transparent and show good faith, here is my post: ---------- Ok, here is the MAJOR question now ---->> WHO IN DARKSTAR 1 SENT A PETITION IN? WHAT WAS THAT PETITION ABOUT? All Goons -- plz plz plz check you petitions you sent in and check your petition replies to see if any of you were the cause of Sharkbait joining Darkstar 1. This is very very important to find out. ----- Perhaps you should have thought about doing so before you set the forum on fire Let us know the result of your internal investigations, but since we don't trust you, if you find no wrongdoings we'll take that as you lying..... (hmmm, why does this sound awfully familiar???) I find this funny as we trust you a lot less BoD alt. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:12:00 - [3279] Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 19:12:53 Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 19:11:09 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi A good start, but DS1 still needs some details about how it happened and why CCP is ignoring critical gaps in communication. For information to all -- Goonswarm members are currently sifting thorugh all of their petitions trying to find what petition might have triggered this action by sharkbait -- this includes Darkstar 1 CEOs and other leaders. So far, we are finding no petitions or communications of any kind with CCP. According to Darkstar 1 CEO, "NO ds1 pos needed aid, no petition was filed, nothing was amiss." We are all now double checking, triple checking, quad-rupple checking. CCP --- can you provide us with the name of the pilot who supposedly sent this petition and what it was about? Or, can you provide a screenshot with the pilot's name blurred out? This is not an issue of Goons just wanting to hang BOB or CCp, it is a matter of us truly wanting to know what in the world is going on. And getting this game fair for everyone. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:12:00 - [3280] Originally by: Uruko Exactly what are you goons trying to do by "releasing" this kinda crap @ 12 a clock friday evening? Are you here to play the game or to ruin it for everyone else? Seriously... Seems like 'ruin it' is the honest answer..... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:12:00 - [3281] Originally by: Rod Blaine The msn thing might be something of an issue. One can think differently about dev to player contact and wether it should be there at all, but it's quite clear that msn or other informal channels should not be used to replace the petition system. If however there's no actual gain other then maybe a few mnutes of time involved I don't see much reason to shout for dev or player blood about it. When's the last time you got a petition answered in minutes?
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:13:00 - [3282] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:12:08 Originally by: Kerfira Perhaps you should have thought about doing so before you set the forum on fire Let us know the result of your internal investigations, but since we don't trust you, if you find no wrongdoings we'll take that as you lying..... (hmmm, why does this sound awfully familiar???) Well from what we've been informed the only person with access to the corp's POSes is the CEO himself and he has stated categorically that he did not file any petition. There is also still the question as to why he was not informed that Sharkbait would be joining his corp and making himself a director and why petitions asking for an explanation were deleted. Not to mention the other two issues that have not even been commented upon yet.
Cafu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:13:00 - [3283] How thorough an investigation could it have been if you didn't even speak to DS1's CEO, the one who sent a petition asking for clarification that was apparently deleted. Things the current CCP response lacks: 1) Who sent the original petition? What did the original petition request? 2) A screenshot or other verifiable evidence that this petition does in fact exist. 3) An explanation of why the DS1 CEO's petition asking for clarification was ignored and deleted. I don't think CCP has the kind of credibility necessary to issue a "we've looked into it - it all checks out" type of explanation. I think people want to see the unanswered questions answered. Let's see a little transparency in this investigation.
Ecco Storm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:14:00 - [3284] So basically Sharkbait was just doing his job and didn't give any feedback to the DS1 guys. No wrong doings have gone on barring a lack of communication and yet Sharkbait and CCP are still getting lynched? I swear you people make me sick. No cheating has gone on in this event and the guy was only doing his job. Get off your high god damned horses. Just because you're ****ed in general about all of the potential abuses going on doesn't mean that they're true .. or false. Treat each one as it comes. 1 down. 3 to go. If someone has actually had serious enough misconduct to warrant a firing then by all means, get the gasoline, the rope and whatever other implements you see fit. I'll be there with a lighter and some mashmellows. If, however, a genuine mistake or a bad judgment call has been made then ffs let CCP learn yet another lesson and improve on things. With the events of the T20 issue CCP put in the Internal Affairs group led by Arkanon. CCP learned the hard way they needed to have more policing of their game. They'll learn from this, adapt, improve and move on. If you think for one bloody minute that CCP is secretly trying to screw any player or group over because of some hidden agenda then you're smoking some serious stuff. Mistakes have been made and will be made again in the future because they're human just like the rest of us. It's a weekend folks. Give them time to get back to the office and get the work done. Don't let the momentum of this hate train carry you along for the ride until you have all the facts. Ecco
This Pilot posts for honor	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:14:00 - [3285] THERE ARE NO PETITIONS IN IRAQ
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:15:00 - [3286] Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS Originally by: Kerfira My stuff.. I find this funny as we trust you a lot less BoD alt. Hehehe, still the same old argument when facing facts you don't like.. FYI though, my main is in a 1-man corp in Empire (and shock, that corp is not in BoB), who'm I just don't happen to want war'dec'd when exposing peoples lies and faulty arguments.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:15:00 - [3287] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Uruko Exactly what are you goons trying to do by "releasing" this kinda crap @ 12 a clock friday evening? Are you here to play the game or to ruin it for everyone else? Seriously... Seems like 'ruin it' is the honest answer..... How does bringing allegations of company misconduct to light ruin anything except the misconduct or appearance of misconduct? I have asked this 3 or 4 times in this thread and never gotten an answer.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:16:00 - [3288] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Avon Originally by: eleuthereus And for the record, I know of no such interaction taking place between ANY goons and devs/GMS. If you have information to the contrary -- please please please provide it for all of us to see and examine so it, too, can be dealt with. Why would I do that? The correct procedure is to email it directly to the IA department, remember? I've missed a lot, so could someone tell me where this policy is laid out? Bumping this
TMaxximus ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:17:00 - [3289] time for non-playing independent staff as far as i can see. especially when people are investing so much time and effort into what afterall is a game. with a potential for the unscrupulous to make money from the game, surely having people control the game with a vested interest is not right. making me and several of my fellow corp-members consider wether or not we pay to renew our subscriptions just to help line the pockets of these people. TMaxximus D2
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:17:00 - [3290] Originally by: Ecco Storm So basically Sharkbait was just doing his job and didn't give any feedback to the DS1 guys. No wrong doings have gone on You don't see anything wrong with developers entering corps, giving themselves director roles and refusing to inform anyone within the corp itself why they are doing so?
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:17:00 - [3291] Originally by: Ecco Storm So basically Sharkbait was just doing his job and didn't give any feedback to the DS1 guys. No wrong doings have gone on barring a lack of communication and yet Sharkbait and CCP are still getting lynched? I swear you people make me sick. No cheating has gone on in this event and the guy was only doing his job. Get off your high god damned horses. Just because you're ****ed in general about all of the potential abuses going on doesn't mean that they're true .. or false. Treat each one as it comes. 1 down. 3 to go. If someone has actually had serious enough misconduct to warrant a firing then by all means, get the gasoline, the rope and whatever other implements you see fit. I'll be there with a lighter and some mashmellows. If, however, a genuine mistake or a bad judgment call has been made then ffs let CCP learn yet another lesson and improve on things. With the events of the T20 issue CCP put in the Internal Affairs group led by Arkanon. CCP learned the hard way they needed to have more policing of their game. They'll learn from this, adapt, improve and move on. If you think for one bloody minute that CCP is secretly trying to screw any player or group over because of some hidden agenda then you're smoking some serious stuff. Mistakes have been made and will be made again in the future because they're human just like the rest of us. It's a weekend folks. Give them time to get back to the office and get the work done. Don't let the momentum of this hate train carry you along for the ride until you have all the facts. Ecco Nobody is claiming Sharkbait needs fired. Nobody is even on a high horse. Everyone is still just pointing out that CCP's response continues to ignore serious portions of the issue.
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:19:00 - [3292] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Ecco Storm So basically Sharkbait was just doing his job and didn't give any feedback to the DS1 guys. No wrong doings have gone on You don't see anything wrong with developers entering corps, giving themselves director roles and refusing to inform anyone within the corp itself why they are doing so? BoB doesn't because they already are directors there.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:19:00 - [3293] Originally by: Breaky Rules Originally by: Rod Blaine The msn thing might be something of an issue. One can think differently about dev to player contact and wether it should be there at all, but it's quite clear that msn or other informal channels should not be used to replace the petition system. If however there's no actual gain other then maybe a few mnutes of time involved I don't see much reason to shout for dev or player blood about it. When's the last time you got a petition answered in minutes? Last week, on a non-BoB char account btw. It ttotally depends on the category, as anyone that actually uses the petition system once in a while could tell you. [center] Old blog
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:22:00 - [3294] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Breaky Rules Originally by: Rod Blaine The msn thing might be something of an issue. One can think differently about dev to player contact and wether it should be there at all, but it's quite clear that msn or other informal channels should not be used to replace the petition system. If however there's no actual gain other then maybe a few mnutes of time involved I don't see much reason to shout for dev or player blood about it. When's the last time you got a petition answered in minutes? Last week, on a non-BoB char account btw. It ttotally depends on the category, as anyone that actually uses the petition system once in a while could tell you. Anything outside of a stuck petition takes an average of 4-7 days for me.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:23:00 - [3295] There's only one player in DS1 authorized to handle anything related to POS stuff and he claims no petition was filed. So what pettition was being acted on and why is the CEO of DS1 being stonewalled? Why are we all getting stonewalled again?
Ikthorn Balhar Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:24:00 - [3296] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Originally by: Verone Originally by: Eldo Davip Originally by: Verone \o/ Page 126 126 <3 Right about now, I'm so glad I don't have your job I hear if it gets to 150, we all get a T2 Ship; 200 we get a T2 BPO; and 500 is Titan's for all! I'll take a faction-fitted Astarte please!
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:27:00 - [3297] In response to the news item: That's great, but it doesn't answer a thing. Lets try a petition number, and a brief description of what the petition was about, and how he was hoping to (or did) solve it. I was hoping for a bit more transparency and a bit less white-wash. Furthermore, the real issue here (to me) is that BOB has Devs/GM's on MSN contact. The ISD reporter might have been fired anyway - but there would have been a petition filed. Petitions are paper trails, and provide justification of someone's actions, and MSN is not such a paper trail. Furthermore, petitions go through a chain of command. MSN? Man, I can just go straight to the top! Lets make an illustration in another light. We both have Verizon DSL, and we can't get online to play our favorite game Eve-Online. All things are really equal, and we both have the same problem at 7:30 PM. So, we call up tech support, and both get the same answer: We're booked up until Thursday (4 days away) at 2 PM. And you get ***ed off, and ask for a supervisor, and get batted around from department to department, waste 4-5 hours of your time, and get it moved ot Thursday at 1 PM. Yippie. I, on the other hand, went to high school with the President of Verizon, and call up my buddy (who I have on my MSN list too), and say "Dude, I gotta get online, and they're telling me it won't be til Thursday!". He says.. "WTF? Ok, hold on." .... "Ok, they'll be there in the morning at 8AM sharp." Sure, we both get our DSL fixed, but it happens 3 days sooner for me. If we move this situation into a game, the effects become more than simply having a buddy. Originally by:* "Cheating, definition" any behavior outside the rules intended to give an unfair advantage to one or more players. An unfair advantage is having a faster method of avoiding the petition system altogether (MSN), or getting your petitions that you do file resolved even faster. An unfair advantage is having more input into how Eve should be developed (features, etc) than I do (and I'm even a fellow game developer). An unfair advantage is having the inside scoop on what is/is not against the rules - instantly. Most of us file a petition, while you simply IM the dev and ask "Hey, what's the scoop on POS bowling?" An unfair advantage is having the inside scoop on what to do in the game. So you're MSN'ing your dev friend and you're talking about upcoming additions/features to the game, and he says "Oh, you guys should definitely consider moving to the new system called DE-VCH3T, because there's going to be a nice surprise for whoever gets there first! An unfair advantage is possibly having world builders purposefully rig the game in your favor. Hourly respawning 10/10 complexes for billions of ISK? Cheating is something that is done outside the rules to gain an unfair advantage. MSN is definitely outside the rules, and in the Information Age, information gained in this way is an unfair advantage. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:29:00 - [3298] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Avon Originally by: eleuthereus And for the record, I know of no such interaction taking place between ANY goons and devs/GMS. If you have information to the contrary -- please please please provide it for all of us to see and examine so it, too, can be dealt with. Why would I do that? The correct procedure is to email it directly to the IA department, remember? I've missed a lot, so could someone tell me where this policy is laid out? Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Uruko Exactly what are you goons trying to do by "releasing" this kinda crap @ 12 a clock friday evening? Are you here to play the game or to ruin it for everyone else? Seriously... Seems like 'ruin it' is the honest answer..... How does bringing allegations of company misconduct to light ruin anything except the misconduct or appearance of misconduct? I have asked this 3 or 4 times in this thread and never gotten an answer. Bumping these quick questions. Somebody want to help me out?
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:30:00 - [3299] Originally by: Breaky Rules Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Breaky Rules Originally by: Rod Blaine The msn thing might be something of an issue. One can think differently about dev to player contact and wether it should be there at all, but it's quite clear that msn or other informal channels should not be used to replace the petition system. If however there's no actual gain other then maybe a few mnutes of time involved I don't see much reason to shout for dev or player blood about it. When's the last time you got a petition answered in minutes? Last week, on a non-BoB char account btw. It ttotally depends on the category, as anyone that actually uses the petition system once in a while could tell you. Anything outside of a stuck petition takes an average of 4-7 days for me. Reimbursement does yes, up to a week or more for me too. You're not going to get a reply within 15 mins on an exploit petition involving macrominers or suchlike either. Bugreports or stuck/exploit petitions on for example POS however tend to get quick replies. And exploit petitions involving ISD staff no doubt get near- instant ones. Again, this here crapstorm needs bringing back down to reasonable proportions. CCP have now investigated one of the points in part as you can read. They'll undoubtedly inform us further about the rest in the coming days. It's also pretty logical that they don't name the player that put in the petition as they aren't allowed to by their own rules to do so. They also never said that this particular petition was about POS btw. I'm sure they'll sort it all out with DS1 in due course. It's a bit silly tho to see how many replies have already been made since that news item came out that instantly dismiss it as a coverup. Again, this here thing needs de-escalating. I wonder wether the goons are prepared to take the intitiative to de-escalate now that their message seems to have been clearly heard and is being acted upon. If anything would be telling about their own role in this it would be taking such action. How about proving yourselves to be consciable too goons ? [center] Old blog
Ecco Storm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:30:00 - [3300] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Ecco Storm So basically Sharkbait was just doing his job and didn't give any feedback to the DS1 guys. No wrong doings have gone on You don't see anything wrong with developers entering corps, giving themselves director roles and refusing to inform anyone within the corp itself why they are doing so? We're talking about Sharkbait here yes? Sigh. Just because there's a lot of animosity towards Goons in general doesn't mean that everyone is out to get you. The only thing Sharkbait is guilty of is a lack of communication. Mistake and\or oversight? Sure, why not. That's a long, long way from misconduct however. Something you kids should try to realize before playing the martyr.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:30:00 - [3301] Originally by: Sanguinnus I recall readsing an amusing thread not so long ago about a refining array malfunctioning at a pos. When the array was unanchored it started speeding away from the pos on its own, obviously bugged. A petition was filed and a gm came in exploded the array and spawned them a new one. At no point in the thread was the GM entering the corp mentioned, why does one bugged pos need a GM to fix it yet another doesn't? it started speeding away? actually, that's pretty funny. "Jim! Look out for the array! splut Oh no, poor Jim...." Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:32:00 - [3302] Originally by: Rod Blaine Again, this here thing needs de-escalating. I wonder wether the goons are prepared to take the intitiative to de-escalate now that their message seems to have been clearly heard and is being acted upon. If anything would be telling about their own role in this it would be taking such action. How about proving yourselves to be consciable too goons ? I'll be the first to agree that they ought to de-escalate it...the minute all of their complaints are satisfactorily answered. We now have 3/4 of the answer to 1/4 of the problems. Getting there!
Vaustrien	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:32:00 - [3303] That response by Arkanon still appears insufficient to convince me no wrongdoing went on if that is the last communication with the eve players about it. It explains actions that we could never be able to verify, and doesn't respond to the petition deletion which is highly suspect. It also doesn't say why an eve-mail was not sent in this situation. Considering the past coverup regarding the t20 thing, you can't expect us to just blindly trust these sorts of things. I don't have a goddamn place in the stupid war, I'm just a four month long regular player who wants to know whether the deck will be stacked against me if I ever get into anything big like fleet warfare.
Uruko North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:33:00 - [3304] Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 19:24:46 Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 19:24:38 REQUEST for all you UBER Eve Players to help solve the mystery. Goonswarm is still not finding ANY petitins filed by any Darkstar member. So, I have a request to narrow down the possible reasons why Sharkbait would join. I am not an uber player, or techno-geek. So, plz help. And I don't care if you are a BOB member. The response from ccp reads: "This instance [Sharkbait joining Darkstar 1] was brought about as the result of a player-submitted petition. Sharkbait joined the corporation to investigate and resolve an issue reported by a member of the corporation in question. While the method may be viewed as unorthodox, the information gained is vital to the continued QA effort and enjoyment of EVE by the corporation in question." So, what "VITAL" information needed to continue QA for Darkstar 1 could ONLY be obtained by a dev joining the corp. If you can list such reasons, we can check to see, for example, if there was a problem with a POS, etc etc etc. So far, there appear to have been no problems with anything or anyone. Thank you in advance. We had trouble renting a corp office and a GM joind our corp to try to fix it. That¦s only one example when we¦ve had GM¦s join our corp to try to fix things.
LymeM Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:33:00 - [3305] Arakanon I think you need to post the petition in regards to: "EDIT: For further clarification, the petition (Petition #631627) which prompted CCP Sharkbait to join the corporation was created on the 6th of May. After GMs were unable to fix the issue, an email was sent out asking for developer help. CCP Sharkbait reported the matter as resolved the same day, on the 9th of May." Simply saying the pos was petitioned, does not mean that it was petitioned by DS-1, or that the petitioner has/had the right to petition on that topic.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:33:00 - [3306] Originally by: Ecco Storm Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Ecco Storm So basically Sharkbait was just doing his job and didn't give any feedback to the DS1 guys. No wrong doings have gone on You don't see anything wrong with developers entering corps, giving themselves director roles and refusing to inform anyone within the corp itself why they are doing so? We're talking about Sharkbait here yes? Sigh. Just because there's a lot of animosity towards Goons in general doesn't mean that everyone is out to get you. The only thing Sharkbait is guilty of is a lack of communication. Mistake and\or oversight? Sure, why not. That's a long, long way from misconduct however. Something you kids should try to realize before playing the martyr. So you admit there's a problem that needs to be addressed. It's just wordplay whether it's "midconduct" "mistake" or "oversight." It's a problem that needs a comprehensive answer and fix.

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:35:00 - [3307] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Originally by: Verone Originally by: Eldo Davip Originally by: Verone \o/ Page 126 126 <3 Right about now, I'm so glad I don't have your job I hear if it gets to 150, we all get a T2 Ship; 200 we get a T2 BPO; and 500 is Titan's for all! and what do us mods get? ___ Questions/Complaints/Opinions/Bree \| Forum Rules \| Our Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER

eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:35:00 - [3308] Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 19:37:18 UPDATE -- New Addition to CCP update: "For further clarification, the petition (Petition #631627) which prompted CCP Sharkbait to join the corporation was created on the 6th of May. After GMs were unable to fix the issue, an email was sent out asking for developer help. CCP Sharkbait reported the matter as resolved the same day, on the 9th of May." Unfortunately, this really tells us very little. Still no actual REASON given. ------ Dear CCP, This is great that we now have the petition number. But can you tell us WHAT the petition was about!!? For instance, were you told that a POS was having problems? Were you asked for help in some other area of the corporation?? By divulging such information, we will be able to determine if indeed a legitimate petition was sent or not. If it was NOT a legit petition, this is something that both you and us need to know since it may constitute some flaw in the petition process -- i.e. the ability to send false petitions. [I know you're reading this - hehe] Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:36:00 - [3309] Originally by: LymeM Arakanon I think you need to post the petition in regards to: "EDIT: For further clarification, the petition (Petition #631627) which prompted CCP Sharkbait to join the corporation was created on the 6th of May. After GMs were unable to fix the issue, an email was sent out asking for developer help. CCP Sharkbait reported the matter as resolved the same day, on the 9th of May." Simply saying the pos was petitioned, does not mean that it was petitioned by DS-1, or that the petitioner has/had the right to petition on that topic. Now we're getting somewhere! If CCP can get the little details to DS1, then I'd say this issue is resolved.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:36:00 - [3310] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/05/2007 19:40:14 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Rod Blaine Again, this here thing needs de-escalating. I wonder wether the goons are prepared to take the intitiative to de-escalate now that their message seems to have been clearly heard and is being acted upon. If anything would be telling about their own role in this it would be taking such action. How about proving yourselves to be consciable too goons ? I'll be the first to agree that they ought to de-escalate it...the minute all of their complaints are satisfactorily answered. I disagree. The goons clearly crossd several lines including aengaging in EULA violations in an organised manner to bring this ****storm up to speed. They also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. In all ways possible, they're at the center of the storm here, and fuelling it even now. Wouldn't it make sense to admit their own misconduct and to start making steps towards returning to a somewhat normal and constructive athmosphere ? edit: btw, devs would need to enter corporations for possible issues regarding activities that require corp roles or the corp interface. This includes but is not limited to: soem pops activities, corporation maintenance activities, some production issues, locking and unlocking of bp's, voting and/or starting up corp votes, etc. Good luck finding it, but please excuse me if the outcome of nooone in DS1 coming forward with it at this stage won't shock me greatly... [center] Old blog
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:37:00 - [3311] Originally by: Eldo Davip Originally by: FireFoxx80 Originally by: Verone Originally by: Eldo Davip Originally by: Verone \o/ Page 126 126 <3 Right about now, I'm so glad I don't have your job I hear if it gets to 150, we all get a T2 Ship; 200 we get a T2 BPO; and 500 is Titan's for all! and what do us mods get? The sweet release of death, or a b***job, whichever you prefer.
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:37:00 - [3312] Edited by: MissileRus on 27/05/2007 19:37:40 Originally by: Ecco Storm The only thing Sharkbait is guilty of is a lack of communication. Mistake and\or oversight? Sure, why not. That's a long, long way from misconduct however. Something you kids should try to realize before playing the martyr. ... edit: how can one be so sure.. --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:37:00 - [3313] Originally by: Eldo Davip Originally by: FireFoxx80 Originally by: Verone Originally by: Eldo Davip Originally by: Verone \o/ Page 126 126 <3 Right about now, I'm so glad I don't have your job I hear if it gets to 150, we all get a T2 Ship; 200 we get a T2 BPO; and 500 is Titan's for all! and what do us mods get? MSN access?
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:37:00 - [3314] Originally by: Eldo Davip Originally by: FireFoxx80 Originally by: Verone Originally by: Eldo Davip Originally by: Verone \o/ Page 126 126 <3 Right about now, I'm so glad I don't have your job I hear if it gets to 150, we all get a T2 Ship; 200 we get a T2 BPO; and 500 is Titan's for all! and what do us mods get? headaches
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:40:00 - [3315] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Rod Blaine Again, this here thing needs de-escalating. I wonder wether the goons are prepared to take the intitiative to de-escalate now that their message seems to have been clearly heard and is being acted upon. If anything would be telling about their own role in this it would be taking such action. How about proving yourselves to be consciable too goons ? I'll be the first to agree that they ought to de-escalate it...the minute all of their complaints are satisfactorily answered. I disagree. The goons clearly crossd several lines including aengaging in EULA violations in an organised manner to bring this ****storm up to speed. They also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. In all ways possible, they're at the center of the storm here, and fuelling it even now. Wouldn't it make sense to admit their own misconduct and to start making steps towards returning to a somewhat normal and constructive athmosphere ? The time the goons chose was admittedly a bit suspect. You'll never be able to prove anything one way or another on that one, though. This is how I think of it-Do you really think an undisciplined mob like Goonswarm could sit on news like this for longer than 3 minutes? It HAD to be released the moment they found it. EULA violations were only committed after CCP attempted to stifle controlled attempts at communication. Is posting by registered users on the forums even a EULA violation? They're definitely fuelling the fire. They should admit their misconduct and try to fix things IF AND WHEN their concerns and answered and it turns out they're wrong. We aren't there yet.
Kai'lya Phantom Regiment	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:41:00 - [3316] Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please check out this Umm I don't get it. According to the update CCP says Sharkbait was simply doing his job, temporarily joining DarkStar 1 to fix a problem in response to a petition submitted by one of the members of that corp. Yet every account I've seen from a DarkStar 1 member in this thread thus far has indicated no knowledge of such a petition, hence this even blowing up in the first place. Do we have an update from a Darkstar 1 member to confirm if this is so? I would HOPE that they would have investigated this within their corp internally before letting things get out of hand like this, because if true it does make them look a little silly. Not to let CCP off the hook completely, it does look rather suspicious to have a dev join your corp with no notice to the CEO explaining what's going on, neither before nor after the fact. Suspicions only increased with their inability to get a reply from someone at CCP to explain what had occurred after this was discovered. I belong to a small insignificant corp that's not involved in any alliance politics at whatsoever, but even I would be bothered if I checked my logs to find a dev joining my corp uninvited for no reason that I was aware of. Writing it off as an unorthodox but vital procedure doesn't really make it better. If ANYONE has to join ANY player corp for ANY reason, the CEO of that corp should be notified. If this had been done in the first place this whole episode could have been avoided.
Breaky Rules	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:41:00 - [3317] Hey lets make the goons out to be the bad guys while we investigate legitimate claims against a party shown in the past to have cheated.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:51:00 - [3318] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 19:51:04 Originally by: Ecco Storm Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Ecco Storm Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Ecco Storm So basically Sharkbait was just doing his job and didn't give any feedback to the DS1 guys. No wrong doings have gone on You don't see anything wrong with developers entering corps, giving themselves director roles and refusing to inform anyone within the corp itself why they are doing so? We're talking about Sharkbait here yes? Sigh. Just because there's a lot of animosity towards Goons in general doesn't mean that everyone is out to get you. The only thing Sharkbait is guilty of is a lack of communication. Mistake and\or oversight? Sure, why not. That's a long, long way from misconduct however. Something you kids should try to realize before playing the martyr. So you admit there's a problem that needs to be addressed. It's just wordplay whether it's "midconduct" "mistake" or "oversight." It's a problem that needs a comprehensive answer and fix. No it's not wordplay thank you for not putting words into my mouth. A mistake or oversight is minor as in no malice involved. Hell in this case there was no damage outside of the drama storm the Goons have been fronting. The issue was fixed by Sharkbait pure and simple. Had this issue been with any other corp or alliance this would have been a non issue. The open letter brigade needed more ammunition apparently to bolster their position however. Misconduct IS malicious on the other hand meaning there was intent there to compromise. Are there problems within the game that need fixing beyond bugs? I'm sure there are. Do the current problems going on warrant this lynch mob mentality that is going on? You folks apparently think so even without even getting CCP's side of the story yet. If the proof of misconduct is there then I'll be first in line to say burn the witch. Until then people need to calm down until such time as light is shed on the matters. CCP's IA guys have already handled one of them. Let them handle the rest then take your issues up with them. That's an awful lot of assumptions. I just want answers- I don't want anyone fired, I don't want any witches burned. I don't care if it was a mistake or a willful deception- NEITHER ONE SHOULD BE POSSIBLE. Whether it was malicious or not doesn't matter- if the allegations are true, there are significant flaws in the system. See what I'm saying? Therefore, there is a problem that needs to be fixed. I don't see any goons demanding jobs yet, either. They just want an answer to what happened, why, and why they couldn't communicate about it. What's wrong with that?
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:51:00 - [3319] Edited by: Kerfira on 27/05/2007 19:51:53 Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Rod Blaine hey also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. Timestamp of Kugutsumen's first post on the Raekhan incident 2007-05-25, 02:23 PM (I won't post the link for obvious reasons but it's easily verifiable) Timestamp of CEO Pyrex's first post regarding the Sharkbait incident on Goonfleet forums 2007-05-25, 16:25 (Orange Species will be able to confirm if asked) So, no, this is not been something we've been sitting on for days or weeks waiting to unleash. Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O??? sarcasm on Hmmm, that is a very generous amount of time to give CCP to sort matters out (just before a holiday weekend too...) before taking matters into your own hand.... sarcasm off The timing of this strongly indicate that GS had in fact no intention of seing this resolved as normal, but wanted to harm the game instead. Congrats, you sunk to a new low in EVE history!!!! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:53:00 - [3320] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 19:52:32 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Avon Originally by: eleuthereus And for the record, I know of no such interaction taking place between ANY goons and devs/GMS. If you have information to the contrary -- please please please provide it for all of us to see and examine so it, too, can be dealt with. Why would I do that? The correct procedure is to email it directly to the IA department, remember? I've missed a lot, so could someone tell me where this policy is laid out? Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Uruko Exactly what are you goons trying to do by "releasing" this kinda crap @ 12 a clock friday evening? Are you here to play the game or to ruin it for everyone else? Seriously... Seems like 'ruin it' is the honest answer..... How does bringing allegations of company misconduct to light ruin anything except the misconduct or appearance of misconduct? I have asked this 3 or 4 times in this thread and never gotten an answer. Bumping these quick questions, given the above post. HOW DOES EXPOSING POSSIBLE CORRUPTION HARM THE GAME? I'd also like to repeat my question of how you think the 4000 spoiled, childish goons could have kept a lid on this until Tuesday. Seriously.
Dunescatan Rex Amarr Crimson Council	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:53:00 - [3321] Originally by: Eldo Davip and what do us mods get? Shiny new T2 morphite edged scissors for all that snipping you've been doing?
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:54:00 - [3322] Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please check out this Why is it that he couldnt access that info without joining the corp? doesnt add up tbh.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:54:00 - [3323] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:46:52 Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:45:51 Originally by: Rod Blaine hey also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. Timestamp of Kugutsumen's first post on the Raekhan incident 2007-05-25, 02:23 PM (I won't post the link for obvious reasons but it's easily verifiable) Timestamp of CEO Pyrex's first post regarding the Sharkbait incident on Goonfleet forums 2007-05-25, 16:25 (Orange Species will be able to confirm if asked) So, no, this is not been something we've been sitting on for days or weeks waiting to unleash. I was making an example. I don't actually believe this is a goon conspiracy myself. However, the example shows how easy it is to make allegations, that are then hard to disprove. [center] Old blog
JonLuc McPew	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:55:00 - [3324] Quote: Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O??? Well, seeing as how they dont have any "special friends" at their beck and call on MSN it seems reasonable. I mean, that BoD guy got an answer in what? 30 seconds with HIS special "petition"?
Creh Ester	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:55:00 - [3325] Sadly, CCP don't seem to have read the feedback in this forum. I will assume that Arkonen isn't just plain dum and that he simply hasn't taken time to read all the milage in this damning thread. Well, Arkonen, your last statement is badly formulated and risk blowing up in your face and cause more damage than anything up to this point if it's left to stand that way and no more details are ever added. If you had read this thread, you would have known that members from DS1 and Goon have already repeatedly denied that the POS was bugged or that a petition was made. And you would have presumely understood that a rehash of what you already earlier stated about the DS1 incident is not sufficient. What you should have added is that the petition in question has been found, that the petitioner have been identified, what the problem was, how it was dealt with, and finally that these details have been communicated to DS1 and Goon. ...but I have this overwhelming feeling that none of those added things has ever happened up to this point. But they really should have you know. Before you put up this explanation. Just asking the GM for his version is no longer good after all the heat generated. While a completely different issue, I still maintain that CCP must find a way put walls between employees and interaction in the game. This should be a High priority objective.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:55:00 - [3326] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:46:52 Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:45:51 Originally by: Rod Blaine hey also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. Timestamp of Kugutsumen's first post on the Raekhan incident 2007-05-25, 02:23 PM (I won't post the link for obvious reasons but it's easily verifiable) Timestamp of CEO Pyrex's first post regarding the Sharkbait incident on Goonfleet forums 2007-05-25, 16:25 (Orange Species will be able to confirm if asked) So, no, this is not been something we've been sitting on for days or weeks waiting to unleash. I was making an example. I don't actually believe this is a goon conspiracy myself. However, the example shows how easy it is to make allegations, that are then hard to disprove. But your little thing was just disproven... I understand the point you were trying to make, but it didn't work out too well here, did it?
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:55:00 - [3327] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 27/05/2007 19:51:53 Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Rod Blaine hey also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. Timestamp of Kugutsumen's first post on the Raekhan incident 2007-05-25, 02:23 PM (I won't post the link for obvious reasons but it's easily verifiable) Timestamp of CEO Pyrex's first post regarding the Sharkbait incident on Goonfleet forums 2007-05-25, 16:25 (Orange Species will be able to confirm if asked) So, no, this is not been something we've been sitting on for days or weeks waiting to unleash. Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O??? sarcasm on Hmmm, that is a very generous amount of time to give CCP to sort matters out (just before a holiday weekend too...) before taking matters into your own hand.... sarcasm off The timing of this strongly indicate that GS had in fact no intention of seing this resolved as normal, but wanted to harm the game instead. Congrats, you sunk to a new low in EVE history!!!! Interesting, since goons have been claiming they went the normal way first. Seems they lied.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:56:00 - [3328] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:56:33 Originally by: Kerfira Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O??? No we waited until the first polite message asking for clarification was summarily deleted on Eve-0. Also timezones. Originally by: Kerfira sarcasm on Yeah thanks for that.
Dracko Caldari S Z S Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:56:00 - [3329] Edited by: Dracko on 27/05/2007 19:56:57 So where are we at?? All I know is i read a note that had some pretty strong allegations in it and found it hard to believe someone could make this all up. Maybe embelish a bit but not create. I am left with a doubt, a concern that there is not a level playing field. At this time I still feel this way due to a very quick response to us, the Eve community, and no real detailed explaination as to who did what and how it was investigated. I don't mind loosing a game or fighting a up hill battle,,,if all is fair. I can say, my son, myself and my father all really enjoy this game and thus hold 6 accounts to enjoy even more. We all however are wondering what the future of Eve holds for us now as we feel there are limits placed as to how far you can go based on who you support, by the game creators and not our own bad choices or lack of determination. We hope that there will be a better explaination forth comming and watch in anticipation for a reasonable, believable conclusion to this most unfortunate situation.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:57:00 - [3330] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 27/05/2007 19:51:53 Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Rod Blaine hey also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. Timestamp of Kugutsumen's first post on the Raekhan incident 2007-05-25, 02:23 PM (I won't post the link for obvious reasons but it's easily verifiable) Timestamp of CEO Pyrex's first post regarding the Sharkbait incident on Goonfleet forums 2007-05-25, 16:25 (Orange Species will be able to confirm if asked) So, no, this is not been something we've been sitting on for days or weeks waiting to unleash. Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O??? sarcasm on Hmmm, that is a very generous amount of time to give CCP to sort matters out (just before a holiday weekend too...) before taking matters into your own hand.... sarcasm off The timing of this strongly indicate that GS had in fact no intention of seing this resolved as normal, but wanted to harm the game instead. Congrats, you sunk to a new low in EVE history!!!! Interesting, since goons have been claiming they went the normal way first. Seems they lied. They went the normal way and it was promptly deleted- doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that an escalation was what would be required to get it into the public eye, which I view as a public service. Better for people to know and have it be explained than for it to be covered up.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:58:00 - [3331] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Kerfira Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O??? No we waited until the first polite message asking for clarification was summarily deleted on Eve-0. You should have waited for a petition answer.
Crux Australis Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:58:00 - [3332] Rejoice everyone, for Judge and jury (and executor) have finally expressed the final verdict: *The auditory is silent when the Goon Zerg speaks with a thousand voices in one* 'For the allegations of repeatedly cheating in and out of game, we judge bob: GUILTY !' 'For the allegations of repeatedly supporting bob in cheating in and out of game, we judge ccp: GUILTY !' 'For the allegations of not caring about whoever is not bob-aligned, we judge ccp: GUILTY !' 'For the allegations of not creating a fair environment for everyone, we judge ccp: GUILTY !' 'For the allegations of rigging the game in favour of bob and bob aligned entities, we judge ccp: GUILTY !' 'And while we are at it, for the allegations of biased moderation, we judge isd: GUILTY !' 'Bob and ccp, you are beyond any credibility and any hope of salvation, there will be no forgiveness, just oblivion and eternal e-mockery. You are the supreme evil for The GameÖ ! We sentence that bob shall be banned from eve and their goods confiscated and redistribuited to RA ! Ccp shall fall under the control of the Swarm representative on your pitiful world, The Mittani ! He will make sure that no wrongdoing is done, ever ! Bob aligned entities will disband and be forced to join a Swarm controlled corporation, where they will mine for our Titans till the server shuts down ! So We speak, justice is done !' *At this point, a tiny voice comes from the group of the comdemned* 'But this is not an official tribunal, how can you judge and condemn us, without even having a look at the result of the official investigation! More, you don't have even access to the tools to conduct a proper investigation... This is lynch-mob mentality !!!' The holy wrath of the Swarm now awakens, too long they have been patient, too long they have tolerated these sub-creatures... with the noise of 10^10 thunders, striking blind terror in the heart of the auditory, the voice speaks SHUT UP BOD! SHUT UP CCP! YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO ANY KIND OF DEFENSE, YOU BOTH ARE CHEATERS! THERE WILL BE NO OFFICIAL TRIAL, FOR YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY GUILTY! WE SPEAK BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN THIS ALREADY, WE KNOW, WE ARE THE SWARM! PERISH ALREADY, WE ARE DOING THIS FOR THE GREATER GOOD OF THE GAMEÖ ! *The day ends with the condemned escorted to their fate by a swarm of Ibis and all the minions and the alts dancing naked in an endless orgasm of power* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well it's over in the end. And I can't even say that "You can't have my stuff !"... because RA got it. Originally by: Tuxford Sure play gallente and caldari if you like, just don't be upset when I waste your ass in a hurricane.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:58:00 - [3333] Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:58:41 Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Kerfira Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O??? No we waited until the first polite message asking for clarification was summarily deleted on Eve-0. You should have waited for a petition answer. My MSN client was acting up. Serious answer: the Sharkbait incident had been petitioned and the petitions deleted. Then a polite post was made on Eve-O and deleted. Then matters escalated.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:59:00 - [3334] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi They went the normal way and it was promptly deleted- doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that an escalation was what would be required to get it into the public eye, which I view as a public service. Better for people to know and have it be explained than for it to be covered up. So, how do you know it was deleted? I havent seen any screens of that, is this just hearsay or were you the one petitioning.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:59:00 - [3335] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Kerfira Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O??? No we waited until the first polite message asking for clarification was summarily deleted on Eve-0. You should have waited for a petition answer. My MSN client was acting up Ah yes, when all fails troll. Go goons.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:00:00 - [3336] Originally by: Crux Australis Bullcrap Thanks for the bad fanfic, but it seems to me that everyone in here is venting while they wait for the proof- just because some people may believe CCP is guilty (and you BoB guys might want to stop conflating yourself with that) doesn't mean that they won't listen to reason IF AND WHEN IT IS PROVEN UNTRUE.
Nehalennia Mellona GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:00:00 - [3337] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 27/05/2007 19:51:53 Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Rod Blaine hey also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. Timestamp of Kugutsumen's first post on the Raekhan incident 2007-05-25, 02:23 PM (I won't post the link for obvious reasons but it's easily verifiable) Timestamp of CEO Pyrex's first post regarding the Sharkbait incident on Goonfleet forums 2007-05-25, 16:25 (Orange Species will be able to confirm if asked) So, no, this is not been something we've been sitting on for days or weeks waiting to unleash. Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O??? sarcasm on Hmmm, that is a very generous amount of time to give CCP to sort matters out (just before a holiday weekend too...) before taking matters into your own hand.... sarcasm off The timing of this strongly indicate that GS had in fact no intention of seing this resolved as normal, but wanted to harm the game instead. Congrats, you sunk to a new low in EVE history!!!! Interesting, since goons have been claiming they went the normal way first. Seems they lied. Honest Moderators here can confirm that our CEO made a single post with these claims that was almost immediately censored. Being quiet and polite just gets your concerns censored and ignored.
Wloire Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:01:00 - [3338] Although they havent made any mention of the other 2 events the Sharkbait fiasco can be put to rest. After reading the most recent announcement, I would like to thank Goonswarm for these frantic two days. CCP has officially given more proof then the rumours and heresay could counteract. I hope the other two allegations are proven to be false in short order as well.
perfeus Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:01:00 - [3339] So the goons lied about the initial petition... interesting, though not suprised.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:02:00 - [3340] Originally by: Nehalennia Mellona Honest Moderators here can confirm that our CEO made a single post with these claims that was almost immediately censored. Being quiet and polite just gets your concerns censored and ignored. I'm sorry, but have you not been telling everyone you submitted a actual petition that was deleted? but now you're saying it was a forum post.. oh boy.
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:02:00 - [3341] Look, we know bob has unfair contacts with CCP, noone questions this. There really is no argument here, BOB is at an unfair advantage.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:02:00 - [3342] Originally by: Wloire Although they havent made any mention of the other 2 events the Sharkbait fiasco can be put to rest. After reading the most recent announcement, I would like to thank Goonswarm for these frantic two days. CCP has officially given more proof then the rumours and heresay could counteract. I hope the other two allegations are proven to be false in short order as well. Posting a petition number doesn't prove anything- we still have CCP's word against the word of the corporation.
Ovale KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:02:00 - [3343] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Ovale 99.9% of EVE accounts don't care about this. Including me. I'm confused, does this mean your landlords have or have not passed on their MSN contacts to you? It means they haven't and I don't care. CCP can access my game assets any time they wish. According to the EULA, the assets belong to them. If they are contacted via petition, MSN, email, or telephone, I don't care. It doesn't mean anything. They can work with an asset by running a query on a database or using in game mechanics. It's all the same to me. This is all much ado about nothing.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:02:00 - [3344] Well that was 129 pages of the biggest pile of rubbish I think these forums have seen. The goonies must be really bored but then I guess when we are stripping their stations back one by one, making good on our statement that the goons would not be allowed to claim 0.0 ever again, they have to do something to keep the game interesting. I'm sure this drama will now destroy bob, much like the last pointless bunch of crap did... oh no wait, it just gave us our greatest ingame war. Can't wait to see what this will give us, hehe. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:03:00 - [3345] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:46:52 Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:45:51 Originally by: Rod Blaine hey also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. Timestamp of Kugutsumen's first post on the Raekhan incident 2007-05-25, 02:23 PM (I won't post the link for obvious reasons but it's easily verifiable) Timestamp of CEO Pyrex's first post regarding the Sharkbait incident on Goonfleet forums 2007-05-25, 16:25 (Orange Species will be able to confirm if asked) So, no, this is not been something we've been sitting on for days or weeks waiting to unleash. I was making an example. I don't actually believe this is a goon conspiracy myself. However, the example shows how easy it is to make allegations, that are then hard to disprove. But your little thing was just disproven... I understand the point you were trying to make, but it didn't work out too well here, did it? Haha, if I couldnt argue a circle around that little timestamp I wouldn't be much of a forum ***** now would I I won't tho, I don't believe it's true anyway to why make a fuss about it. Btw, you question re: what could be bad about making noise about allegations of dev corruption. What's bad about it is the negative press. The story landed on several much-read third party sites related to the MMO industry within hours. That's not because the resident authors read the eve-o forums or kugutsumens website. It's because it was brought there by people involved here. People that were angry about not having a reply within hours on a friday afternoon. That negative press impact can't be undone by CCP. they could send another press release, but they won't undo the mud that sticks regardless of wether or not there's any substance to the allegations. Combine that with the incredibly fast and (somewhat) orchestrated escalation of this issue and you've got a problem that's going to cause CCP issues in future too. I would not be surprised if CCP decide to add some words of warning about this to the end statement rearding this debacle. And I would personally totally agree with them. Possibly without reason, there's been damage caused to unknown extent here. Real damage. [center] Old blog
Crux Australis Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:03:00 - [3346] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Crux Australis Bullcrap Thanks for the bad fanfic, but it seems to me that everyone in here is venting while they wait for the proof- just because some people may believe CCP is guilty (and you BoB guys might want to stop conflating yourself with that) doesn't mean that they won't listen to reason IF AND WHEN IT IS PROVEN UNTRUE. It's ok Goon alt, you can dance nekkid in the hall as well, it's your right ! The day is yours !!!!! Originally by: Tuxford Sure play gallente and caldari if you like, just don't be upset when I waste your ass in a hurricane.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:03:00 - [3347] Originally by: Wloire Although they havent made any mention of the other 2 events the Sharkbait fiasco can be put to rest. It can be put to rest only when there is a clear answer given as to why the CEO of DS1 was not informed that Sharkbait would be making himself a director in his corp and why petitions asking for an explanation were deleted.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:03:00 - [3348] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 20:02:42 Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Nehalennia Mellona Honest Moderators here can confirm that our CEO made a single post with these claims that was almost immediately censored. Being quiet and polite just gets your concerns censored and ignored. I'm sorry, but have you not been telling everyone you submitted a actual petition that was deleted? but now you're saying it was a forum post.. oh boy. It was both. Review the thread- Darkstar 1 submitted petitions before any of this came around. Those were ignored. Then a forum post including all of the allegations, including the ISD stuff was posted. It was deleted. Then the threadnaught came. This is all laid out very clearly throughout the thread- you can't twist unclear speech on this page into changing that.
Helmut 314 Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:04:00 - [3349] Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: Rod Blaine The goons clearly crossd several lines including aengaging in EULA violations in an organised manner to bring this ****storm up to speed. They also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. In all ways possible, they're at the center of the storm here, and fuelling it even now. Wouldn't it make sense to admit their own misconduct and to start making steps towards returning to a somewhat normal and constructive athmosphere ? Rod, With all due respect. I see no violation of EULA by Goons in this matter by initiating the threadnaught. Was it the wisest, most civil, patient thing to do? That's a great debate. But was it actually a EULA violation. Don't think so. There was no intention of crashing the eve-O or closing it down. Believe me or not, but if you read my previous posts, you will see that I have tried to be balanced abou this issue. Furthermore, as for your comment, "They also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed" -- talk about conspiracy theorist. Geez. Again, from the posts on Goon forums, you will see nothing indicating that leadership was conspiring to do this on a holiday weekend. It just happened. Have your spies read the forums. Finally, as for admitting our own misconduct and shortcomings, and taking steps for a more constructive atmosphere, go back and read my posts thorughout this day. You dont seem to grasp the BoB spinmachine and how it always works. The high profile Bobbits take turns repeating themselves and counterattacking someone or something for a while and then go quiet, hand over the baton to someone else and keep on doing this until everyone has sores in their ears or eyesockets. Im just waiting for DigitalCommunist to start his shift, but I guess hes busy chatting up CCP staff on IRC. Its a very efficient propaganda tool and also why noone in their right mind believes in anything Bob says or trust them as far as they can throw them. You can find examples of this in every thread that in some way has threatened Bob interests for the past three years at least. Go dig and you will find that its true. ________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:06:00 - [3350] Originally by: DB Preacher Well that was 129 pages of the biggest pile of rubbish I think these forums have seen. You do yourself a disservice.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:06:00 - [3351] Originally by: Crux Australis Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Crux Australis Bullcrap Thanks for the bad fanfic, but it seems to me that everyone in here is venting while they wait for the proof- just because some people may believe CCP is guilty (and you BoB guys might want to stop conflating yourself with that) doesn't mean that they won't listen to reason IF AND WHEN IT IS PROVEN UNTRUE. It's ok Goon alt, you can dance nekkid in the hall as well, it's your right ! The day is yours !!!!! /sigh We've already covered throughout the thread that I'm not a goon, my main was banned for posting in (doing nothing wrong) a threadnaught thread. Are my points wrong? Are you going to ignore them just because this is an alt character? That certainly would fight the stereotype that bob are elitist *****s.
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:07:00 - [3352] Sad. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:07:00 - [3353] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 20:02:42 Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Nehalennia Mellona Honest Moderators here can confirm that our CEO made a single post with these claims that was almost immediately censored. Being quiet and polite just gets your concerns censored and ignored. I'm sorry, but have you not been telling everyone you submitted a actual petition that was deleted? but now you're saying it was a forum post.. oh boy. It was both. Review the thread- Darkstar 1 submitted petitions before any of this came around. Those were ignored. Then a forum post including all of the allegations, including the ISD stuff was posted. It was deleted. Then the threadnaught came. This is all laid out very clearly throughout the thread- you can't twist unclear speech on this page into changing that. I'm not trying to, was merely responding to what i read, but you have already explained it. So how long did Darkstar wait for an answer on their petition before resorting to spam and claiming it was ignored ? And if it was 'ignored' what was the GM response to the petition?
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:07:00 - [3354] Edited by: Alias11 on 27/05/2007 20:11:45 Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Kerfira Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O??? No we waited until the first polite message asking for clarification was summarily deleted on Eve-0. You should have waited for a petition answer. My MSN client was acting up Ah yes, when all fails troll. Go goons. You yourself said that petitions of a great magnitude tend to be answered in short order, minutes even. Originally by: DB Preacher Well that was 129 pages of the biggest pile of rubbish I think these forums have seen. The goonies must be really bored but then I guess when we are stripping their stations back one by one, making good on our statement that the goons would not be allowed to claim 0.0 ever again, they have to do something to keep the game interesting. I'm sure this drama will now destroy bob, much like the last pointless bunch of crap did... oh no wait, it just gave us our greatest ingame war. Can't wait to see what this will give us, hehe. dbp oh man now that you're here all the somewhat reasonable defenses of blacklight c an be cast aside in favor of some sub-par trolls
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:08:00 - [3355] IT can also be put to rest when CCP assures us that bob must use the same channels as EVERY OTHER PLAYER to contact the devs. No special treatment, otherwise its not a level playing field.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:08:00 - [3356] Edited by: Kerfira on 27/05/2007 20:10:40 Originally by: Nehalennia Mellona Honest Moderators here can confirm that our CEO made a single post with these claims that was almost immediately censored. Being quiet and polite just gets your concerns censored and ignored. You know as well as the rest of us that only junior people would be likely to be at work at that time you chose, so you orchestrated it exactly that way.... knowing that those junior people would likely remove the posts and either call senior people or let it wait until a normal workday.. If you'd actually been interested in handling this normally, you'd have given it a week or so, to give CCP the chance to get the right people together and in the office to handle it. I suppose one should say it was well orchestrated, but I don't really feel that generous when you plainly set out to hurt a game that I like playing.... As your only objective with this seems to have been to hurt the game, then yes, NEW LOW FOR EVE!!! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Wloire Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:09:00 - [3357] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 27/05/2007 19:51:53 Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Rod Blaine hey also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. Timestamp of Kugutsumen's first post on the Raekhan incident 2007-05-25, 02:23 PM (I won't post the link for obvious reasons but it's easily verifiable) Timestamp of CEO Pyrex's first post regarding the Sharkbait incident on Goonfleet forums 2007-05-25, 16:25 (Orange Species will be able to confirm if asked) So, no, this is not been something we've been sitting on for days or weeks waiting to unleash. Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O??? sarcasm on Hmmm, that is a very generous amount of time to give CCP to sort matters out (just before a holiday weekend too...) before taking matters into your own hand.... sarcasm off The timing of this strongly indicate that GS had in fact no intention of seing this resolved as normal, but wanted to harm the game instead. Congrats, you sunk to a new low in EVE history!!!! Interesting, since goons have been claiming they went the normal way first. Seems they lied. They went the normal way and it was promptly deleted- doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that an escalation was what would be required to get it into the public eye, which I view as a public service. Better for people to know and have it be explained than for it to be covered up. How is it any better for people to have known and have it explained? The interweb is aflame with news posts of "CCP caught cheating. EVE horrible, horrible game!". People who enjoy this game are cancelling there accounts. Any idiot who deems himself an expert onm EVE is divebombing EVE's reputation anywhere possible and CCP reputation is being tarnished further. This has done no good whatsover for anyone or the game.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:10:00 - [3358] Originally by: DB Preacher Well that was 129 pages of the biggest pile of rubbish I think these forums have seen. The goonies must be really bored but then I guess when we are stripping their stations back one by one, making good on our statement that the goons would not be allowed to claim 0.0 ever again, they have to do something to keep the game interesting. I'm sure this drama will now destroy bob, much like the last pointless bunch of crap did... oh no wait, it just gave us our greatest ingame war. Can't wait to see what this will give us, hehe. dbp Thanks for making yourselves the centerpiece of something that is almost entirely a CCP failure. BoB may be an accessory to some small part of it, and here you are busting in and willfully ignoring the possibility that wrongdoing occured, laughing at it. If you have 2 neurons to rub together, you might consider focussing on the issue at hand in a practical manner instead of showing yourselves to be uncaring in front of all of us younger players who aren't involved in 0.0 wars. Some of your alliance members have done it earlier in the thread- it's possible.
Cafu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:11:00 - [3359] Originally by: Rod Blaine Again, this here thing needs de-escalating. I wonder wether the goons are prepared to take the intitiative to de-escalate now that their message seems to have been clearly heard and is being acted upon. If anything would be telling about their own role in this it would be taking such action. How about proving yourselves to be consciable too goons ? This issue is bigger than Goonswarm. While our in-game enemies have been trying to turn this into a goon issue, the majority of the posts in this thread are from concerned players who have no association with our alliance. People in this game wish to play on equal footing regardless of whether or not they are at war with BoB. The power to de-escalate this situation rests solely in the hands of CCP and its IA department. It's been said, but it bears repeating: A "we checked it out and everything was done by the rules" is not going to suffice this time. Questions remain about the DS1 POS issue and so far no information has been released about the other issues. I don't really care what the final verdict is as long as it is a verdict that everyone here, whether they be BoB, Goon or any other player, can trust. If in the end CPP shows us a record of a petition from the DS1 CEO asking for the POS to be checked out, you can all sit back and laugh at the stupid goons and on our side we will harass the guy on our forum with childish and obscene insults until he cries. I enjoy this game and I am rooting for the IA department to come through here. The way to do that is to be as open as possible with the information from the investigation. The current statement in regards to the DS1 issue is lacking and hopefully will be expanded upon. The questions about some groups of players having instant IM access to GMs and developers must be addressed and even if the allegations are proven to be false, it would be a great opportunity for Arkonon to lay down explicit rules and consequences for players and employees that circumvent the existing petition system. And then, if the IA department comes through and gives us all a warm fuzzy with detailed explanations of the issues in question, there is still the question about why Goonswarm needed to threadnaught the forums in order to have these issues looked into. Why were our petitions deleted? Why was our inital post deleted? We aren't asking for special treatment because we are the largest alliance in the game. Any player should have the right to ask questions without throwing CCP into cover-up mode. They should also have the right to ask questions and express opinions without suffering a forum and/or in-game ban.
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:11:00 - [3360] While I appreciate CCP investigating this matter, I sincerly hope that all allegations will be under falsehood. However, coming from a pilot that will probably never see T2 production, or will probably never become a major player in alliance politics, I could care less about BoB recieving T2 bpo's or outside assistance from corrupt developers. Of course, I hope that BoB does recieve more T2 blueprints, since they will need to transport them.. and I can blow up thier ships =) Those T2 bpo's go for quite a bit of ISK, and I look forward to becoming the future owner of one My opinion is my own, not of my corp or my alliance. If you have problems, we can have a "who can do L4 missions faster" duel >:)
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:12:00 - [3361] Originally by: Wloire The interweb is aflame with news posts of "CCP caught cheating. EVE horrible, horrible game!". People who enjoy this game are cancelling there accounts. Any idiot who deems himself an expert onm EVE is divebombing EVE's reputation anywhere possible and CCP reputation is being tarnished further. This has done no good whatsover for anyone or the game. Unless some part of it is true- then we can all play the game on a level playing field. Even if it isn't true, this MUST cause CCP to create systems to eliminate the appearance of partiality, and that will be a long term win for the community, too. Cheap for the price.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:12:00 - [3362] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley I'm not trying to, was merely responding to what i read, but you have already explained it. So how long did Darkstar wait for an answer on their petition before resorting to spam and claiming it was ignored ? And if it was 'ignored' what was the GM response to the petition? It disappeared. As in there was no record of it that the petition issuer could access. Which could, of course, have a perfectly reasonable explanation. It's just that we're still waiting for that explanation along with many others.
Donna Divine Gilded Goose Brokerage	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:13:00 - [3363] Elmo, i'd delete the bit where you said what your main's status is, if you're on the same IP at least. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gilded Goose Brokerages Trading to order.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:13:00 - [3364] Why are we getting updates to the part of this that looks like a gross misunderstanding and getting no updates on why members of BoB have direct lines of contact to CCP GMs and developers which they can and have used for EVE-related business?
Crux Australis Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:14:00 - [3365] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Crux Australis Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Crux Australis Bullcrap Thanks for the bad fanfic, but it seems to me that everyone in here is venting while they wait for the proof- just because some people may believe CCP is guilty (and you BoB guys might want to stop conflating yourself with that) doesn't mean that they won't listen to reason IF AND WHEN IT IS PROVEN UNTRUE. It's ok Goon alt, you can dance nekkid in the hall as well, it's your right ! The day is yours !!!!! /sigh We've already covered throughout the thread that I'm not a goon, my main was banned for posting in (doing nothing wrong) a threadnaught thread. Are my points wrong? Are you going to ignore them just because this is an alt character? That certainly would fight the stereotype that bob are elitist ***s. It's ok, and when you are done licking windows I am sure that you can find your way to the big room where the party is held ! You can do it ! Go now !!! Back on topic,btw, I am not an elitist *, and you can see how much I posted on these boards via eve-search, read: a handful of times. Sadly now I'm tired of hearing you *** **s pulling e out of your ass just because you are sad failures (you and many other associated with you). I have 10 warnings to spend and if this means spending all of them (or maybe win an insta-ban) in the joyful act of calling you and your ilk for what you are, aka *** **S, then so be it ! off already ! Get the out of this game, you are not wanted. Terminate your accounts, go to infest some other game you dips. Kindly. get. the. . out. And have a nice day ! Originally by:** Tuxford Sure play gallente and caldari if you like, just don't be upset when I waste your ass in a hurricane.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:22:00 - [3366] Originally by: BlacksouI 131 pages with all STUPID comments. why not wait for an official response then make your opions heard. Otherwise, if you thought CCP's staff/employee wouldnt provide a fair service/unprofessional customer service then DO NOT flood the forum but this site instead. P.S. anyone who jump to a conclusion without hearing an official response is a moron. At least give CCP a wk to do a full investigation. What the hell is that site? It looks like virus
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:22:00 - [3367] Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 20:22:16 Originally by: Verone Originally by: eleuthereus With all due respect. I see no violation of EULA by Goons in this matter by initiating the threadnaught. Originally by: EULA Terms Of Service You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world. Verone, No one, not even THE MITTANI, could foresee that Goons posting multiple postings to Eve-O about the allegations would actually shut down the server. I certainly did not envision that. I assumed that a lot of Goons would make posts to various places on Eve-O to get the word out, but I perceived no Goon actually thinking, "hey, let's do this to close down the server or cause lag." In fact, that was exactly what Goons did NOT want!! What was wanted was to get the word out, bot "intentionally" create excessive lag. So, I stand by my original statement that I saw no violation of EULA regarding a deliberate attempt to shut down the forums using a trheadnaught. That would make no sense and go contrary to what the very purpose was -- i.e., notify the player base of concerns. Enough said. While I do agree that the issues at hand are serious and need to be fully investigated and those responsible reprimanded and appropriate, you're wrong with this statement. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:22:00 - [3368] Originally by: Fluffernator Quoted post has been snipped. -Hango Give the mods a few minutes, even the goonies gave more than 2 though not by much
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:23:00 - [3369] Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 20:22:33 Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Legolad	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:23:00 - [3370] In the end, I believe CCP have an ethical obligation and good business reason to establish an open and transparent process for their investigations. Having IA is a good start, but if the result of IA is just more postings saying "Nothing to see here. Move along.", mundane players like me start thinking about putting our money somewhere else. My requirements for playing any MMO include no dev corruption, a well-balanced game for all players, good spam prevention, and low lag; in that order. MMOs that don't measure up, don't get my money. It truly is that simple. The deal-killer for EVE <b>might be</b> trust. If I can't trust CCP to run a fair game, I have to leave. Bottom Line: In all 120+ pages of this posting, I cannot discern who, if anyone, is telling the truth. Result: If I cannot discern the truth, I cannot have trust. Without trust, I cannot enjoy EVE Online. If CCP really wants to trump the nay-sayers, CCP has the tools and the power to reveal everything that has transpired thus far. They are the ONLY ones that can do this. Rational people (the bulk of CCP's income) should demand transparent special investigations. To wit: MODEL FOR SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS Tenet #1: PUBLIC FORUM A special public forum for investigations must be established. This forum must be open to ALL paying customers. The forum must allow for the posting of FOUR kinds of information: TRANSCRIPTS - restricted to the Special Investigators FAIR WITNESS REPORTS - restricted to Fair Witnesses EVIDENCE - Open to All, but moderated by the Investigator and the Fair Witnesses OPINION - Open to All, but restricted to an account's main (i.e. most experienced) persona. Tenet #2: FAIR WITNESS POOL A Fair Witness Pool must be established. The members of the pool are volunteers with 6-month tenures. Once placed in the pool, they cannot be removed from the pool except by their own hand. When a Special Investigation is started, an investigator is assigned and three Fair Witnesses are RANDOMLY chosen from the Fair Witness Pool. The role of Fair Witnesses includes evaluating submissions of EVIDENCE in the forum and investigating Conflicts of Interest. Tenet #3: IDENTIFICATION OF ALL PARTIES The identity of every involved party should be established and published in the Investigation Transcript. Tenet #4: JUST THE FACTS The Transcript must be limited to factual information. Each version of a Transcript must be maintained and publicly available with edits attributed to the editor. This should include, but not be limited to, character names, corporation names, times, dates, places, actions, and other relevant facts. Tenet #5: EVIDENCE Submissions of EVIDENCE by all players must be allowed. Evaluation of this evidence must be performed by both the Investigator and the Fair Witnesses. If accepted, the EVIDENCE must be attached to the transcript. If declined, the reasons must be included with the declined submission. Tenet #6: OPINION Submissions of OPINIONS by all players must be allowed and never censored. This should be a parallel thread to the investigation. Tenet #7: TIMELY UPDATES A schedule must be established and kept for updates, even if the update is to tell people that no further information is yet available. Tenet #8: SPECIFIC RESULTS The results of each investigation must include specific findings, rulings, and punitive actions. The Findings must be electronically signed by the Investigator and the Fair Witnesses and must include closing statements from the accusers and the accused. This would be a methodology I could support. No censorship. No deletions. No bannings. This is freedom of speech and democracy in action. If CCP will not at least try to come up with something like this, it tells me they have no interest in preserving the trust I have or building greater trust in the future. And that, sadly, will lead to me leaving this fantastic and beautiful game. 'nuff said. I won't post again on this topic. I will watch and wait. Peace.
Karim alRashid Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:23:00 - [3371] Originally by: Shivalla Goons wont leave until they have ruined the game. That has been said many times already, SomethingAwful is a community which we all know more or less as being a community dedicated to do such acts of deprived griefing. What's this SomethingAwful thing you keep talking about ?
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:24:00 - [3372] Originally by: eleuthereus Originally by: Verone Originally by: eleuthereus With all due respect. I see no violation of EULA by Goons in this matter by initiating the threadnaught. Originally by: EULA Terms Of Service You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world. Verone, No one, not even THE MITTANI, could foresee that Goons posting multiple postings to Eve-O about the allegations would actually shut down the server. I certainly did not envision that. I assumed that a lot of Goons would make posts to various places on Eve-O to get the word out, but I perceived no Goon actually thinking, "hey, let's do this to close down the server or cause lag." In fact, that was exactly what Goons did NOT want!! What was wanted was to get the word out, bot "intentionally" create excessive lag. So, I stand by my original statement that I saw no violation of EULA regarding a deliberate attempt to shut down the forums using a trheadnaught. That would make no sense and go contrary to what the very purpose was -- i.e., notify the player base of concerns. Enough said. While I do agree that the issues at hand are serious and need to be fully investigated and those responsible reprimanded and appropriate, you're wrong with this statement. I'm pretty sure CCP took their own servers down to remove all the goon posts, post this thread, and post the announcement. Otherwise they would have been down for longer than 45 minutes and it would have taken longer than 5 minutes to go down.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:24:00 - [3373] Originally by: BlacksouI P.S. anyone who jump to a conclusion without hearing an official response is a moron. At least give CCP a wk to do a full investigation. Now now, don't say such things. Goons were PERFECTLY reasonable and gave CCP a generous 4 hours (and 2 minutes) to sort things out before heading to the forums.... PS: In case someone wonders, yes, my sarcasm filter was ON! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Wloire Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:25:00 - [3374] Originally by: Relaria Hossin Why are we getting updates to the part of this that looks like a gross misunderstanding and getting no updates on why members of BoB have direct lines of contact to CCP GMs and developers which they can and have used for EVE-related business? If it looked like it was such a gross misunderstanding then why was it added to Goonswarm's "open letter"? You see the thing is your fellow goons felt horribly wronged when a Gm entered their POS on a petition they aparently made. When they brought said info to the table they felt like it just wasent enough to cause an big enough disruption. To make sure the open letter involved BoB in some way and garnered enough attention they had to throw in semi-plausible, unfactual, imperfectly quoted event from month's ago (one of which,fixed roleplay events, does not effect the other two in any way.) Now CCP getting hit from three sides, specifically on a long weekend, when even game developers go home and be with their families, decides "Well let's explain the one that happened recently, the one that's easy to clear up." Give them some time, I'm doubitng it's all that easy looking into the termination of an ISD reporter that has happened almost 6 month's ago.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:25:00 - [3375] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: BlacksouI P.S. anyone who jump to a conclusion without hearing an official response is a moron. At least give CCP a wk to do a full investigation. Now now, don't say such things. Goons were PERFECTLY reasonable and gave CCP a generous 4 hours (and 2 minutes) to sort things out before heading to the forums.... PS: In case someone wonders, yes, my sarcasm filter was ON! 4 hours and 2 minutes until they posted a single thread. It could have been a thread just like this one, with a week or whatever to do an investigation. Too bad it was deleted.
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:26:00 - [3376] I've never sided with BoB members (i've commented some in Blacklights blogs even) and as far as in-game goes I fight them. I was kinda upset when they posted OT during the ASCN-BoB war (that they couldn't/wouldn't control their forum warriors better), but the coalition (not all, but alot of them) have really proved that they are not one bit better (this thread was the last straw). I hope that this matter will solve itself (I for one wouldn't be even the least suspicious if Sharkbait joined my corp, prolly wouldn't even think twice about it since fixing EvE is his Job) and hope that they playerbase doesn't leave just because someone made something up (and NO I don't belive everything I read, I could make a linky to a site PROVING that G.W. Bush is an alien, by "mob" standards). I personally don't care if DEVs and GMs have friends (or chat with beta testers or players on IRC/MSN/Phone) in any alliance (or if they play the game). I think that playing developers is a good thing. They need to be there, they need to be close and tight with the community. I trust CCP and their employees to give me a good gaming experience for the money I pay them. They do that job, and really good might I add. They reslove issues, they get the servers up and running swiftly after each crash. They fix problems, apply patches and constantly improve gameplay. I have NO reason to distrust CCP as a company, and neither should any of you (though it's your own choice to do so). And I think the community is great (most of the time). Two things that do get me upset though: 1. After plowing through 126 pages of crazy (yes on the borderline to insanity) posts I've come to the normal conclusion. A. People don't actually READ the posts, and/or B. Their reading comprehension skills are worse than mine. There's so much frustration in many of the posts that I don't even know why I bothered to read everything (since 95% of it is a mindless mob mentality outrage). 2. That people who actually pay and play this game have so little faith in CCP that NO MATTER WHAT is said or done, they still flame them (yes flame). If I ran a company and had customers come with such BLATANT accusations as some of the posts I've read I'd sue each and every one of those slandering customers (after banning them till last sunday and then some). Conclusion. 1 Shame on you slandering nerfherders! 2 READ IT TWICE (basic internet tip). 3 Play nice ("constructive" critisism anyone?) 4 Know your facts (never guess or assume the worst). 5 Trust in CCP that they'r doing things right (don't make pointless claims of the opposite without thinking HARD before you do). 6 Read it a third time and think about it (are you doing the game and the community a favour?). This became quite a long post, sorry about that. It reflects only my personal views on the matter. It might have spellingerrors or be considered inflammatory by some. But please read with care (since english isn't my native language there might be some translational/cultural misunderstandings in it). Regards Thargat, an AE for a EvE playing guy from Sweden. If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:27:00 - [3377] Originally by: Wloire Originally by: Relaria Hossin Why are we getting updates to the part of this that looks like a gross misunderstanding and getting no updates on why members of BoB have direct lines of contact to CCP GMs and developers which they can and have used for EVE-related business? If it looked like it was such a gross misunderstanding then why was it added to Goonswarm's "open letter"? You see the thing is your fellow goons felt horribly wronged when a Gm entered their POS on a petition they aparently made. When they brought said info to the table they felt like it just wasent enough to cause an big enough disruption. To make sure the open letter involved BoB in some way and garnered enough attention they had to throw in semi-plausible, unfactual, imperfectly quoted event from month's ago (one of which,fixed roleplay events, does not effect the other two in any way.) Now CCP getting hit from three sides, specifically on a long weekend, when even game developers go home and be with their families, decides "Well let's explain the one that happened recently, the one that's easy to clear up." Give them some time, I'm doubitng it's all that easy looking into the termination of an ISD reporter that has happened almost 6 month's ago. Or maybe all of those things are genuine examples of wrong doing. Do you think that they are ok, if they are true? Goons seem to think that they're true, so they wanted them addressed. Put yourself in their shoes- aren't they supposed to be the ones doing tinfoil hat stuff?
Xalorn Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:27:00 - [3378] Originally by: Rod Blaine What I mean to say is that in Eve, you can either cut off CCP from the community completely so that only the petition system and the forums offer methods of communication and feedback, or you can decide that you can trust CCP to do it right in general, and correct or punish the instances in which things go wrong. Thats the thing, people lost trust in CCP when T20 incident happened. Its not just goons, its a very large part of the community that doesn't feel that CCP employees can be trusted to be ethical. The petition/forums communication method works for every single other major MMO on the market, so why can't it work here?
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:27:00 - [3379] Originally by: Alias11 The EULA is so full of vague muckymuck that it's not even funny. Ganking miners interferes with the ability of other eve online subscribers to enjoy the game, but neither you nor I have been punished The first bolded quote is pretty specific : Originally by: EULA Terms Of Service You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. Pirating someone, killing them ingame legitimately is perfectly within the rules. Eve-Online even advertises the profession of piracy on the reatil box, and displays the warning "Game Experience May Change During Online Play". Having members of your alliance repeatedly spam the same topic on the game's Official site to the point where the site owners have to disable the forums is not within the game rules and is a breach of the EULA and denial of service to legitmate users, as stated. >>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:29:00 - [3380] Originally by: Thargat Conclusion. 1 Shame on you slandering nerfherders! 2 READ IT TWICE (basic internet tip). 3 Play nice ("constructive" critisism anyone?) 4 Know your facts (never guess or assume the worst). 5 Trust in CCP that they'r doing things right (don't make pointless claims of the opposite without thinking HARD before you do). 6 Read it a third time and think about it (are you doing the game and the community a favour?). Indeed, throughout history, blindly trusting the powerful, especially the powerful who have committed transgressions before, is an excellent way to get them to change their ways.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:31:00 - [3381] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Alias11 The EULA is so full of vague muckymuck that it's not even funny. Ganking miners interferes with the ability of other eve online subscribers to enjoy the game, but neither you nor I have been punished The first bolded quote is pretty specific : Originally by: EULA Terms Of Service You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. Pirating someone, killing them ingame legitimately is perfectly within the rules. Eve-Online even advertises the profession of piracy on the reatil box, and displays the warning "Game Experience May Change During Online Play". Having members of your alliance repeatedly spam the same topic on the game's Official site to the point where the site owners have to disable the forums is not within the game rules and is a breach of the EULA and denial of service to legitmate users, as stated. I suppose the forums bans that were passed out for goonies posting threadnaught threads (and for folks like me who posted in them ) was the punishment, don't you? What is it that you think should be done, instead?
Red Gabba Use Of Weapons	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:31:00 - [3382] Originally by: Creh Ester Sadly, CCP don't seem to have read the feedback in this forum. I will assume that Arkonen isn't just plain dum and that he simply hasn't taken time to read all the milage in this damning thread. Well, Arkonen, your last statement is badly formulated and risk blowing up in your face and cause more damage than anything up to this point if it's left to stand that way and no more details are ever added. If you had read this thread, you would have known that members from DS1 and Goon have already repeatedly denied that the POS was bugged or that a petition was made. And you would have presumely understood that a rehash of what you already earlier stated about the DS1 incident is not sufficient. What you should have added is that the petition in question has been found, that the petitioner have been identified, what the problem was, how it was dealt with, and finally that these details have been communicated to DS1 and Goon. ...but I have this overwhelming feeling that none of those added things has ever happened up to this point. But they really should have you know. Before you put up this explanation. Just asking the GM for his version is no longer good after all the heat generated. While a completely different issue, I still maintain that CCP must find a way put walls between employees and interaction in the game. This should be a High priority objective. Originally by: CCP Arkanon EDIT: For further clarification, the petition (Petition #631627) which prompted CCP Sharkbait to join the corporation was created on the 6th of May. After GMs were unable to fix the issue, an email was sent out asking for developer help. CCP Sharkbait reported the matter as resolved the same day, on the 9th of May. Seems that a petition was filed, now are we supposed to believe the CEO of DS1 and the goons (who claim that nothing was filed) or should we believe CCP who seem to have the evidence to hand. Can the CEO of DS1 explain this? I think Goon credibility is now worse than ever
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:32:00 - [3383] This thread needs to die. Yes, CCP has a credability problem, but I'm sure they are aware of it and will do what it takes to keep the game alive. Yes, I'm sure there have been more instances of corruption besides the ones proven. Yes, CCP has taken hardline actions against some whistleblowers and that is wrong. This will probably only stop when whatever authoritarian idiot in ccp realises sooner or later he will ** off somebody wealthy and will end up with a very public lawsuit. I am sure this will happen before any actual lawsuit. Yes, BoB is too dominant, are a bunch of arrogant metagamers that will do anything to win. Luckily eve is big enough for me to ignore them and if you don't share the playground with the bullies, they can't bother you. In the end BoB is something that only affects you if you don't see it coming. But the bottomline is that EVE is a great game with a lot of content and a lot of freedom in how to play it. Sure, a lot of crap does happen, but that's because it is a very grown up game that mirrors life in a very raw way. I chose not to be a part of all this corrupt alliance bullcrap, and for the most part I can. If this ever changes I leave. CCP designs and runs the game as it sees fit. Sure, their PR is a bit crap when something like this happens, but so far they have made up for it in game design and execution. So the bottom line here is I am more **ed with CCP FOR NOT FIXING THE BLOODY DRONES than for this crap. Sure, its a bit bad, but don't blow it out of proportion. As for BoB, if you have to sell your soul to the devil to win... well, you've allready lost. Bye! RtoZ.
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:32:00 - [3384] Originally by: Verone Originally by: eleuthereus With all due respect. I see no violation of EULA by Goons in this matter by initiating the threadnaught. Originally by: EULA Terms Of Service You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world. Enough said. While I do agree that the issues at hand are serious and need to be fully investigated and those responsible reprimanded and appropriate, you're wrong with this statement. Not really, the red part is not applicable since it was CCP itself who brought down the website. The cause was probably the many threads spammed by the goons, true, but they could have kept it up and deleted the threads instead. Personally, I think it is wise that they gave everyone a cool-down period, but that does negate the fact that it was CCP itself that directly interfered with with ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the website. The green bit is not actually applicable, since it is limited by the yellow bit at the end, and the threadnaught wasn't started in the game world, it was on the website. Some goons were banned for inappropriate use of in game public channels by the way. Sorry, but it is not as clear cut as all that ... --
Sickari	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:32:00 - [3385] i think latest statement from ccp arkanon still lacks to adres the growing concern of payer database losing trust overall in ccp staff employess. some actions in this matter should be taken. ccp employees and other peeps having access to informations or powers above usual players shouldnt be allowed to play on tranquility,or at least not in aliances and let alone to have control powers in some player aliance/corp because even thou ccp sharkbait did his job-althou used "unhortodox" means- the knowledge he could have gained could be used in again "unhortodox" manner if for example lets say he is member of bob. so to actually let to every ccp employees morality this matter isnt just enough for the community at this point. ccp has alot to do to gain the trust lost over time.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:40:00 - [3386] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 20:41:38 Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Indeed, throughout history, blindly trusting the powerful, especially the powerful who have committed transgressions before, is an excellent way to get them to change their ways. If you can't trust them to investigate properly, then why ask them to in the first place ? You do have some trust in CCP, even if it's only trust that they might do better with this investigation then with the last one. That one was poo, I agree completely. It left BoB as target for all kinds of random trashtalk (we can live with that tho), and the info that came out of the investigation was lacking at best, the conlcusions not formulated strongly enough by a long shot. I trust that they should investigate, but they can investigate just fine WITH the player community snapping at their heels. My post was in response to someone who wanted the players to shut up and let CCP do what CCP was going to do. Every time that happens, NOTHING GETS DONE. A little bit of pressure here allows the small amount of trust I have to have. And yes, the last investigation did screw you guys over in a major way. It sucks that this one is going in the same direction. I recognize and I hope that many others do too that BoB is not the real issue here. It's all about CCP's practices. (Which do include fraternizing with player corporations- but that's not the corporations' fault)
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:42:00 - [3387] Originally by: Relaria Hossin I think the reason CCP is so inept with giving out information is because it's far too late. Too many CCP employees have been recruited from the players, they don't want to lose their nice positions of power over the game and will never willingly let this messed up situation change. This reeks of truth. Somewhat startled though, I can agree to this line of thought. Reson ? T20 is not the door man/fired yet, why would a CCP employee fear being caught cheating for his friends ? - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait: Dude. True amarr tank shields!
Red Gabba Use Of Weapons	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:42:00 - [3388] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Red Gabba Originally by: Creh Ester Sadly, CCP don't seem to have read the feedback in this forum. I will assume that Arkonen isn't just plain dum and that he simply hasn't taken time to read all the milage in this damning thread. Well, Arkonen, your last statement is badly formulated and risk blowing up in your face and cause more damage than anything up to this point if it's left to stand that way and no more details are ever added. If you had read this thread, you would have known that members from DS1 and Goon have already repeatedly denied that the POS was bugged or that a petition was made. And you would have presumely understood that a rehash of what you already earlier stated about the DS1 incident is not sufficient. What you should have added is that the petition in question has been found, that the petitioner have been identified, what the problem was, how it was dealt with, and finally that these details have been communicated to DS1 and Goon. ...but I have this overwhelming feeling that none of those added things has ever happened up to this point. But they really should have you know. Before you put up this explanation. Just asking the GM for his version is no longer good after all the heat generated. While a completely different issue, I still maintain that CCP must find a way put walls between employees and interaction in the game. This should be a High priority objective. Originally by: CCP Arkanon EDIT: For further clarification, the petition (Petition #631627) which prompted CCP Sharkbait to join the corporation was created on the 6th of May. After GMs were unable to fix the issue, an email was sent out asking for developer help. CCP Sharkbait reported the matter as resolved the same day, on the 9th of May. Seems that a petition was filed, now are we supposed to believe the CEO of DS1 and the goons (who claim that nothing was filed) or should we believe CCP who seem to have the evidence to hand. Can the CEO of DS1 explain this? I think Goon credibility is now worse than ever Why do you believe that CCP has 'proof?' Just because they say so? They should talk to DS1 and give them details about why they did it. Communicate, communicate, communicate- they can't expect trust from the majority of us now. Well its pretty much a choice of believing CCP or believing goons then. and in all honesty, apart from the BPO issue, CCP have far more credibility than a alliance of gamers spawned from the SA forums. Im more inclined to trust CCP on this.
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:43:00 - [3389] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Indeed, throughout history, blindly trusting the powerful, especially the powerful who have committed transgressions before, is an excellent way to get them to change their ways. What on earth are you talking about? If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.
Sy Shi	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:43:00 - [3390] You can't say the press is bad if CCP hasn't fully answered the questions, because if it's all true then they deserve it. In all fairness, they attempted to go through the right channels and were completely ignored. They had the right to ask when their petition and thread post got deleted. So I don't even think, if all of the accusations are false, CCP is fully clear of bad press. The other thing you have to think about is how eve gets new members. The fact is, the majority of people that come to this game come because of word of mouth. So long as people still enjoy the game and recruit people they know, CCP will still have their main draw of newcomers. Goons have recruited thousands of people to eve. If twenty five hundred people only paid for one month at 15$ that's about 37.5k USD. One month. For the record, I was in goonfleet over a year ago and came back in TGG. (a non-GS group of goons. Mostly expatriates from GF that either hate GF or hate POS warfare) Goonfleet has every right to question how things were dealt, and if CCP refuses to deal with it privately, what choice did they have?
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:44:00 - [3391] Originally by: Thargat Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Indeed, throughout history, blindly trusting the powerful, especially the powerful who have committed transgressions before, is an excellent way to get them to change their ways. What on earth are you talking about? You can't think of a single incident where trusting powerful people blindly has caused massive ruination for people? I had heard such good things about the EU's schools, too.
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:44:00 - [3392] Now, I don't like the idea that BoB gets outside help from CCP, and though I don't know all the facts, a lot of the proof I have seen doesn't make me feel too comfortable. In fact, it shocks me. I also don't like the idea that Goons take over MMOs and try to change it to better suit them. I don't know much about this, but what I have seen from their tactics of spamming till it gets changed makes me very worried that it is indeed true. I have played EVE for two and a half years and many times I have loved CCP for what they have been doing to the game, and hated them for what they are doing to the game. However, if the incident regarding BOB, CCP, the ISD volunteer, and player events are true, it would shake me. How could I ever really have faith in CCP if things like that happen. My trust in CCP has been Broken. D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
Mitch Manus Regeneration	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:45:00 - [3393] Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 19:37:18 UPDATE -- New Addition to CCP update: "For further clarification, the petition (Petition #631627) which prompted CCP Sharkbait to join the corporation was created on the 6th of May. After GMs were unable to fix the issue, an email was sent out asking for developer help. CCP Sharkbait reported the matter as resolved the same day, on the 9th of May." Unfortunately, this really tells us very little. Still no actual REASON given. What about the possibility that the member who petitioned it has left DS1 recently? Or is away from the game for few days, or on holiday etc?
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:45:00 - [3394] Originally by: Red Gabba Well its pretty much a choice of believing CCP or believing goons then. and in all honesty, apart from the BPO issue, CCP have far more credibility than a alliance of gamers spawned from the SA forums. Im more inclined to trust CCP on this. So you don't like goons and CCP has committed nearly identical crimes and coverups in the past. What have goons lied about in the past that make you think they're lying now, and more than CCP (who has ADMITTED to it)? Serious question- I usually stay out of this crap.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:46:00 - [3395] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 19:37:18 UPDATE -- New Addition to CCP update: "For further clarification, the petition (Petition #631627) which prompted CCP Sharkbait to join the corporation was created on the 6th of May. After GMs were unable to fix the issue, an email was sent out asking for developer help. CCP Sharkbait reported the matter as resolved the same day, on the 9th of May." Unfortunately, this really tells us very little. Still no actual REASON given. What about the possibility that the member who petitioned it has left DS1 recently? Or is away from the game for few days, or on holiday etc? Hopefully CCP will communicate with DS1 and iron out the truth of this. TODAY.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:49:00 - [3396] Originally by: Mitch Manus What about the possibility that the member who petitioned it has left DS1 recently? Or is away from the game for few days, or on holiday etc? It also could be related to the BPO-related petition made by a member of DS1 mentioned back on page 33/4 (though that was not related to POSes which we're told the petition was about). That being said I still want to hear an explanation for the lack of communication with DS1 and the subsequent disappearance of petitions.
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:51:00 - [3397] Originally by: Red Gabba Originally by: CCP Arkanon EDIT: For further clarification, the petition (Petition #631627) which prompted CCP Sharkbait to join the corporation was created on the 6th of May. After GMs were unable to fix the issue, an email was sent out asking for developer help. CCP Sharkbait reported the matter as resolved the same day, on the 9th of May. Seems that a petition was filed, now are we supposed to believe the CEO of DS1 and the goons (who claim that nothing was filed) or should we believe CCP who seem to have the evidence to hand. Can the CEO of DS1 explain this? I think Goon credibility is now worse than ever Seems that you're easy to convince. You speak of evidence to hand. Where is it please? I only see a petition number. That means nothing to me. Was it DS1 who filed that petition? Who was it in DS1? The only think I see is Arkonon's word to DS1's word. Neither of the two are high on my credibility-list I'm sorry to say. Arkonon should be able to provide clearcut evidence proving his case. Why doesn't he? And what about Sharkbait's the cloak and dagger stuff afterwards? Stupidity? Forgetfulness? This could all be as was described in Arkonon's post. I truly hope it is. Why doesn't he convince me? It should be such an easy thing to do for him. 'Move along, nothing to see here.' is no longer an appropriate reply. Surely you can see that. This was always the easiest thing to check, as well as the easiest issue to clear up. Why not do it? It would defuse a lot of the nonsense we've seen in this thread ... --
Red Gabba Use Of Weapons	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:53:00 - [3398] Edited by: Red Gabba on 27/05/2007 20:52:46 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Red Gabba Well its pretty much a choice of believing CCP or believing goons then. and in all honesty, apart from the BPO issue, CCP have far more credibility than a alliance of gamers spawned from the SA forums. Im more inclined to trust CCP on this. So you don't like goons and CCP has committed nearly identical crimes and coverups in the past. What have goons lied about in the past that make you think they're lying now, and more than CCP (who has ADMITTED to it)? Serious question- I usually stay out of this crap. I dont like the goons, im happy to admit that... ive never said they have lied though im just happy to trust the professionals that run CCP over someone who is no different than me, a player of this game. i will admit that and it is possible that the CEO of DS1 knew nothing about a petition, however they claimed that no petition was filed, someone filed that petition and has not come forward or DS1 leadership are lieng about it being filed. Really I don't expect we as players will ever know who filed the petition, but right now sharkbaits name is cleared imo.
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:53:00 - [3399] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi You can't think of a single incident where trusting powerful people blindly has caused massive ruination for people? I had heard such good things about the EU's schools, too. First, It's a game. You don't have to trust CCP to play it. You don't even have to pay them if you don't like them. Representative democracies however are built on trust (and CCP ain't no democracy, it's a company). If you feel you can't trust CCP, then don't vote for them in the next elections, that simple. If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:53:00 - [3400] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Originally by: Red Gabba Originally by: CCP Arkanon EDIT: For further clarification, the petition (Petition #631627) which prompted CCP Sharkbait to join the corporation was created on the 6th of May. After GMs were unable to fix the issue, an email was sent out asking for developer help. CCP Sharkbait reported the matter as resolved the same day, on the 9th of May. Seems that a petition was filed, now are we supposed to believe the CEO of DS1 and the goons (who claim that nothing was filed) or should we believe CCP who seem to have the evidence to hand. Can the CEO of DS1 explain this? I think Goon credibility is now worse than ever Seems that you're easy to convince. You speak of evidence to hand. Where is it please? I only see a petition number. That means nothing to me. Was it DS1 who filed that petition? Who was it in DS1? The only think I see is Arkonon's word to DS1's word. Neither of the two are high on my credibility-list I'm sorry to say. Arkonon should be able to provide clearcut evidence proving his case. Why doesn't he? And what about Sharkbait's the cloak and dagger stuff afterwards? Stupidity? Forgetfulness? This could all be as was described in Arkonon's post. I truly hope it is. Why doesn't he convince me? It should be such an easy thing to do for him. 'Move along, nothing to see here.' is no longer an appropriate reply. Surely you can see that. This was always the easiest thing to check, as well as the easiest issue to clear up. Why not do it? It would defuse a lot of the nonsense we've seen in this thread ... This is the most angering thing for me. So easy to resolve with a little bit of transparency. And yet...here we are.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:55:00 - [3401] Originally by: Thargat Originally by: Elmo Noguchi You can't think of a single incident where trusting powerful people blindly has caused massive ruination for people? I had heard such good things about the EU's schools, too. First, It's a game. You don't have to trust CCP to play it. You don't even have to pay them if you don't like them. Representative democracies however are built on trust (and CCP ain't no democracy, it's a company). If you feel you can't trust CCP, then don't vote for them in the next elections, that simple. I won't, if they don't come through here. I'd like it if they WOULD come through, though. The post I was replying to was one saying to 'shut up, CCP will do an honest investigation. Trust them because they are CCP.' I don't have any reason to be that trusting. Wish I did, but I have actively seen things here that mean I SHOULDN'T be that trusting.
Princess Maria	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:55:00 - [3402] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Wloire Although they havent made any mention of the other 2 events the Sharkbait fiasco can be put to rest. It can be put to rest only when there is a clear answer given as to why the CEO of DS1 was not informed that Sharkbait would be making himself a director in his corp and why petitions asking for an explanation were deleted. Almost something I can sign on this thread. GMs, Devs, just post those insignificant, time consuming posts like GM to PC: "This issue has been relayed for further investigation" Dev to Corp: "I'm making myself as director in your corporation according to petition #1231231312" Aurora(?) to fired ISD: (he should have proper explanation about the situation) Dev to BoB member on MSN: "Hmm, nope, take that through petitions" Censoring posts and petitions and lack of those small gestures leave things into pending state and the customer has no idea what's going on. I've witnessed a petition where the situation was apparently moved forward, that's just one "wtf is going on" moment when there's no more replies for petition in few days. Respect the players even in bad times, they'll bring the money in when good times come. Still, gl players ingame, gl CCP out of game.
Prall Grosserbauch GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:55:00 - [3403] Originally by: Red Gabba Really I don't expect we as players will ever know who filed the petition, but right now sharkbaits name is cleared imo. Apart from the whole "not bothering to inform the CEO of the corporation he was messing with" issue.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:56:00 - [3404] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/05/2007 20:56:49 Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Mitch Manus What about the possibility that the member who petitioned it has left DS1 recently? Or is away from the game for few days, or on holiday etc? It also could be related to the BPO-related petition made by a member of DS1 mentioned back on page 33/4 (though that was not related to POSes which we're told the petition was about). That being said I still want to hear an explanation for the lack of communication with DS1 and the subsequent disappearance of petitions. That'll be the one. Lockign down of bpo's maybe ? That would require corp roles to try and recreate the bug right ? So there was a petition after all. Hard to think of which one it could have been eh ? Hard to read the first post by arkanon too where he said that POS were one of the possible reasons to join. So we can now conclude safely that at worst this part of the series of three points was at worst a case of not bothering to mail the ceo (which I could imagine tbh, most people wouldn't be very suspecting at all if a dev joined and left corp resulting in a solved petition concerning bpo's). Two to go. Is it time to tone down the hostility level already goons ? [center] Old blog
ThisName IsTaken Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:57:00 - [3405] Wow, look at that--the goons were full of it. I didn't see that coming. What could they possibly gain by making BoB and a dev look like they were cheating?
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:57:00 - [3406] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Seems that you're easy to convince. You speak of evidence to hand. Where is it please? I only see a petition number. That means nothing to me. Was it DS1 who filed that petition? Who was it in DS1? Unfortunately CCP probably can't make that information public because of their privacy rules (which might be in the EULA too, cba to check).... Either you trust CCP, or you don't. If you don't, why are you playing this game? Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:58:00 - [3407] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Mitch Manus What about the possibility that the member who petitioned it has left DS1 recently? Or is away from the game for few days, or on holiday etc? It also could be related to the BPO-related petition made by a member of DS1 mentioned back on page 33/4 (though that was not related to POSes which we're told the petition was about). That being said I still want to hear an explanation for the lack of communication with DS1 and the subsequent disappearance of petitions. That'll be the one. So there was a petition after all. Hard to think of which one it could have been eh ? Hard to read the first post by arkanon too where he said that POS were one of the possible reasons to join. So we can now conclude safely that at worst this part of the series of three points was at worst a case of not bothering to mail the ceo (which I could imagine tbh, most people wouldn't be very suspecting at all if a dev joined and left corp resulting in a solved petition concerning bpo's). Two to go. Is it time to tone down the hostility level already goons ? It'll be time for them to tone it down the moment these explanations are confirmed and not a moment before. Why should goons be credulous about this? Why NOT make CCP deliver convincing proof? There's no skin off your back- this thing doesn't even involve BoB.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:00:00 - [3408] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Red Gabba Really I don't expect we as players will ever know who filed the petition, but right now sharkbaits name is cleared imo. Apart from the whole "not bothering to inform the CEO of the corporation he was messing with" issue. Sorry to tell you, but this actually IS CCP's game. They can do whatever they like without telling you.... You should be happy first of all that they sometime do, and secondly even more happy that they're fixing bugs affecting one of your corps. But noooo, rather use it to hurt the game, ehh? Standard Goon MO ?? Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:00:00 - [3409] Originally by: ThisName IsTaken Wow, look at that--the goons were full of it. I didn't see that coming. What could they possibly gain by making BoB and a dev look like they were cheating? Oh look- the thing with the dev isn't fully resolved, and the stuff with Bbob hasn't even been TOUCHED yet. There's plenty of us who aren't goonies who are interested in this. Why aren't you? I think potential collusion and corruption- or even a system that allows the appearence thereof- should be of concern to everyone above and beyond some ******** 0.0 war.
RossP Zoyka	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:00:00 - [3410] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: Necessitas Postverta Scene: The office of CCP Arkanon Arkanon sits at his desk, in front of his computer. He opens an e-mail: Quote: Hey dude, please investigate these allegations against GM Sharkbait Arkanon: Here I come to save the day! Arkanon leaps up, strikes a superhero pose, and rushes off down the hallway. Cut to Sharkbait's office Sharkbait is in his office, in front of his computer, playing EVE. Arkanon rushes into the room, loose papers on Sharkbait's desk rise up in a flurry. Before Sharkbait can even react, Arkanon comes to a dead stop and violently swings one arm in Sharkbait's direction. A single finger is pointed menacingly. Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait: Dude. Arkanon: Okay, yeah, anyways why did you join Darkstar 1 and give yourself directorship? Sharkbait: They petitioned me about something. Arkanon: Oh ok, that's cool, you just saved CCP the company a lot of embarressment. Sharkbait: Yeah dude, any time, btw you really have to see my latest ASCII art. Arkanon: Maybe later, I've got to let people know that things are legit. Arkanon? More like Sherlockanon! Disclaimer : WHile i found it funny i dont believe it is anything like the truth No way! That's def the way it happened and I wouldn't want it otherwise! lol
Red Gabba Use Of Weapons	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:01:00 - [3411] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Red Gabba Really I don't expect we as players will ever know who filed the petition, but right now sharkbaits name is cleared imo. Apart from the whole "not bothering to inform the CEO of the corporation he was messing with" issue. There is that, perhaps he is not required to do so, if a problem existed i would like to know if had been fixed more than why he was in my corp. but really is a issue like that worth all of the drama that has ensured here?
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:02:00 - [3412] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Red Gabba Really I don't expect we as players will ever know who filed the petition, but right now sharkbaits name is cleared imo. Apart from the whole "not bothering to inform the CEO of the corporation he was messing with" issue. Sorry to tell you, but this actually IS CCP's game. They can do whatever they like without telling you.... You should be happy first of all that they sometime do, and secondly even more happy that they're fixing bugs affecting one of your corps. But noooo, rather use it to hurt the game, ehh? Standard Goon MO ?? WHAT ABOUT REVEALING POTENTIAL CORRUPTION OR THE APPEARENCE THEREOF HURTS THE GAME? The only potential outcome is the removal of the corruption or the appearence of corruption- a win for everyone. I am somewhat worked up about this because I've asked it 5 times now and I don't think I've gotten an answer. I also think it's been YOU that I've had to ask it the last 3 times. Respond!
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:03:00 - [3413] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 21:02:13 Originally by: Red Gabba Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Red Gabba Really I don't expect we as players will ever know who filed the petition, but right now sharkbaits name is cleared imo. Apart from the whole "not bothering to inform the CEO of the corporation he was messing with" issue. There is that, perhaps he is not required to do so, if a problem existed i would like to know if had been fixed more than why he was in my corp. but really is a issue like that worth all of the drama that has ensured here? That and the other 3 issues are worth at least a bit of drama, yeah. Maybe not all of this, true.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:04:00 - [3414] Originally by: Alias11 It's not worth much, but you'll have to take my word Yeah, no kidding. As for the content of your post, if CCP choose to take down their website it's their descision. When the reasoning for the website being taken down is the spamming of the same topic on the forums by members of the same alliance, who are bound under the EULA not to attempt disruption of service to the game or it's site, then it becomes a breach of the EULA by said players. It's been done in the past, when this happened before by the same people. "It wasn't intentional" doesn't hold water at all to be honest. Especially when it's not two or three, but ten or twenty, maybe more people who are spamming constantly. Trying to compare these actions to a corp theif, or a scammer, or someone who causes problems in game by spying is in no way sensible, those are all ingame actions that fall within the possible avenues of play. Whining on the forums about a nerf or scammer? Sure, it's a breach of the forum rules, but it's by one person... so two or three might have the same idea and the same thread comes up? It's taken care of by ISD. Then you get to the point of excessive posting and spam, that's when the site has to be taken down. Sorry mate, but attempting to compare any of the above ingame actions with what GoonSwarm members did, which was a phenomonal amount of spam on the out of game forums in a short time is rediculous. Regardless of what you feel people have done, or regardless of how serious the allegations, the proper channels should have been used and it's not what happened, hence the mess that's happened now. >>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
Ling Xiao Prism Project Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:04:00 - [3415] I find it hilarious how many no-faced "new" players are 100x more vocal in this thread than anyone else __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing?
RossP Zoyka	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:05:00 - [3416] By the by I hate the goons now. They are annoying.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:06:00 - [3417] Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 27/05/2007 21:05:07 Originally by: Kerfira Sorry to tell you, but this actually IS CCP's game. They can do whatever they like without telling you.... This is EXACTLY my point. CCP employees are regularly recruited from EVE's players. These players are allowed to keep their player character intact as long as they do not tell anyone they work for CCP. Why are such major conflicts of interest allowed to exist? No other game allows for this on such an insane scale. It's all made so much worse because there is only a single shard. This is the root of all of this. All of these scandals are just symptoms of this real problem.
Dray Caldari Endgame.	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:07:00 - [3418] For myself im just curious as to what Brian Boitano would do.....
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:08:00 - [3419] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... WHAT ABOUT REVEALING POTENTIAL CORRUPTION OR THE APPEARENCE THEREOF HURTS THE GAME? The only potential outcome is the removal of the corruption or the appearence of corruption- a win for everyone. I am somewhat worked up about this because I've asked it 5 times now and I don't think I've gotten an answer. I also think it's been YOU that I've had to ask it the last 3 times. Respond! Which corruption???? Oh yes, the stuff about Sharkbait fixing bugs as he's paid to do.... I'm sure that was worth orchestrating all this, including all the ** the Goons have been spreading all around every other website they could get their hands on... Face it. They orchestrated this whole thing, not to get it resolved, not to find out what happened. No, they orchestrated and timed it exactly this way because... THEY WANT TO HURT THE GAME! They don't give a damn about EVE. They're in the business of WRECKING games, not playing them. Take a subscription to SA and read whats there. You'll find I'm right. Originally by:** CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
She Storm Minmatar The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:08:00 - [3420] Quote: Stuck is always handled fast, and I suspect others like exploit can alse be handled fast depending on how urgent it is deemed. Yep, our last Stuck petition, where we couldn't remove ammo from pos guns to take them down. was handled in just over 8 hours. 8 Hours of waiting to move our last pos. I wouldn't call that very quick. BUT at least it was on the same day.
Kalitern Tarha Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:09:00 - [3421] Originally by: Ling Xiao I find it hilarious how many no-faced "new" players are 100x more vocal in this thread than anyone else I've got a face if it makes you happy.. and as far as you sig goes, I play rigged games all the time.. Casino's ARE rigged and if this game is as well oh well it's not like I'm poor and I've plenty of spare time The best weapon against an enemy is another enemy. Friedrich Nietzsche
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:09:00 - [3422] WHERE IT STANDS SO FAR - 1. There was T20 incident a few months ago where a CCP dev gave free BPOs to BOB - an action that in turn was discovered and screamed about publicly. The offending CCP employee was slapped on the wrist. This has This has led to widespread mistrust of CCP and has confirmed apparent close connections between devs/GMs and BOB that result in in-game playing favors. 2. "Bugged" 10/10 plex in BOB's space that spawned hourly (I believe) yielded billions in ISK for BOB, and it remaiend quiet until some honest BOB guys (of which there are many, I do not doubt) alerted the proper people at CCP. But by then, it was too late to do anything about the isk already distributed throughout BOB. This has This has led to widespread mistrust of CCP and has confirmed apparent close connections between devs/GMs and BOB that result in in-game playing favors. 3. Members of BOB have admitted (boasted, in fact) on more than one occasion, both in-game and on forum posts, that they enjoy some very close associations with devs/GMs, so close in fact that they can instant message them in-game and get things done almost immediately, unlike the average pilot in other corps/alliances. This has This has led to widespread mistrust of CCP and has confirmed apparent close connections between devs/GMs and BOB that result in in-game playing favors. 4. A GM, by teh name of Sharkbait, put himself into a Goonswarm corp (Darkstar 1), made himself a direcor, then left the corp -- all without prior knowledge or consent of any Darkstar CEO. Because of game-wide distrust, this was interpreted as a possible BOB dev connection doing sometihng nefarious in the corp. Goons reacted by making public all concerns. CCP now claims Sharkbait infiltrated in response to a petition filed -- although they have not released the name of the Darkstar petitioner, nor has Darkstar been able to assertain which, if any, petition was made. 5. Charges about CCp rigging RP events continue to go unanswered but are under investigation. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:09:00 - [3423] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Seems that you're easy to convince. You speak of evidence to hand. Where is it please? I only see a petition number. That means nothing to me. Was it DS1 who filed that petition? Who was it in DS1? Unfortunately CCP probably can't make that information public because of their privacy rules (which might be in the EULA too, cba to check).... Either you trust CCP, or you don't. If you don't, why are you playing this game? Why would they not be able to make a petition public? It's clearly something that's been fixed by now, and not an exploit. I can't possibly see how DS1 could object against publication of it. What possible privacy issue could there be? What kind of private stuff do people put in these petitions? About trusting CCP: I trust them enough to conduct a fair and open investigation into this, otherwise I wouldn't be still here. That does not mean that I'm gullible however. Even CCP has to convince me, and I guess a lot of other players as well, about their findings. Too much has happened to expect otherwise. --
Smith Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:09:00 - [3424] epic
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:10:00 - [3425] Originally by: Rod Blaine Yes it is. They're acting like spoilt children jsut because they feel they have the right to because of an incident from the past. Many of them decide to drag us into it based on that same incident. While all this time, CCP deserve alot more trust from its playerbase then goonswarm does. CCP didn't go out and slandered goonswarm across the internet on this did they ? CCP didn't go and threadnouht SA forums to the degree of the admins taking it down of having to take it down did they ? CCP did not evade forum and ingame bans using alt aco****s just to repeat actions for which the bans were initiated in the first place either. In fact, CCP has so far handled this issue quite exemplary I'd say, apart from maybe needing to communicate a tad more comprehensively, but that's minor at worst. So yes, the onus of de-escalation should lie with the instigators here, not with CCP alone. Perceived injustice does not justify causing monetary damage to the perceived perpetrator. Why do you want de-escalation BEFORE the results are done? A little premature, don't you think? CCP's performance has been fairly exemplary if you don't count censorship and stonewalling beforehand and incomplete answers to 1 out of 4 issues afterwards. You also have to ignore that all of the things the goons did that you talk about weren't just goons but other players as well and that they were done in response to being stonewalled by CCP. Are you saying they DON'T have the right to an answer about 'an incident from the past?' You're happy playing in a game where the company feels free to lie and stonewall? It could be you next time- or that would be the wiser assumption to make, both for yourself and for your PR purposes. I have been impressed by the speed that those answers are coming. Slow but steady wins the race...and we started nice and early compared to last time.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:10:00 - [3426] Originally by: Ling Xiao I find it hilarious how many no-faced "new" players are 100x more vocal in this thread than anyone else Fear of getting banned/re-banned for innocuous comments will do that to a person.
Ling Xiao Prism Project Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:12:00 - [3427] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Ling Xiao I find it hilarious how many no-faced "new" players are 100x more vocal in this thread than anyone else Fear of getting banned/re-banned for innocuous comments will do that to a person. Why don't you try spamming the forum again till it's taken down __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing?
Sral TBear letter of marque	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:13:00 - [3428] everybody should calm down and go play abit OGame for a few days......in there its you and your alliance...cant cheat, cant "realy" help...just wack planets :) Signature Removed
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:14:00 - [3429] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... WHAT ABOUT REVEALING POTENTIAL CORRUPTION OR THE APPEARENCE THEREOF HURTS THE GAME? The only potential outcome is the removal of the corruption or the appearence of corruption- a win for everyone. I am somewhat worked up about this because I've asked it 5 times now and I don't think I've gotten an answer. I also think it's been YOU that I've had to ask it the last 3 times. Respond! Which corruption???? Oh yes, the stuff about Sharkbait fixing bugs as he's paid to do.... I'm sure that was worth orchestrating all this, including all the **** the Goons have been spreading all around every other website they could get their hands on... Face it. They orchestrated this whole thing, not to get it resolved, not to find out what happened. No, they orchestrated and timed it exactly this way because... THEY WANT TO HURT THE GAME! They don't give a damn about EVE. They're in the business of WRECKING games, not playing them. Take a subscription to SA and read whats there. You'll find I'm right. I'm not paying 10 dollars to read goons talk about bob. I'm asking you HOW it hurts the game. WHAT effect is there other than removing the APPEARANCE of corruption even if it doesn't exist. 1) Why are you ignoring the other 3 issues? ISD guy getting fired, RP events rigged, BoB admits to dev contact? 2) Why is your answer to how they 'hurt the game' - "No, they orchestrated and timed it exactly this way because... THEY WANT TO HURT THE GAME." Why would they want that? How does this hurt it? HOW???
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:14:00 - [3430] Originally by: She Storm Originally by: Kerfira Stuck is always handled fast, and I suspect others like exploit can alse be handled fast depending on how urgent it is deemed. Yep, our last Stuck petition, where we couldn't remove ammo from pos guns to take them down. was handled in just over 8 hours. 8 Hours of waiting to move our last pos. I wouldn't call that very quick. BUT at least it was on the same day. Ok, I've never waited more than 1/2 an hour.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:15:00 - [3431] Originally by: eleuthereus No one, not even THE MITTANI, could foresee that Goons posting multiple postings to Eve-O about the allegations would actually shut down the server. I certainly did not envision that. I assumed that a lot of Goons would make posts to various places on Eve-O to get the word out, but I perceived no Goon actually thinking, "hey, let's do this to close down the server or cause lag." In fact, that was exactly what Goons did NOT want!! What was wanted was to get the word out, bot "intentionally" create excessive lag. better get them hip waders on and grab a shovel! its gettin deep!
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:16:00 - [3432] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: eleuthereus No one, not even THE MITTANI, could foresee that Goons posting multiple postings to Eve-O about the allegations would actually shut down the server. I certainly did not envision that. I assumed that a lot of Goons would make posts to various places on Eve-O to get the word out, but I perceived no Goon actually thinking, "hey, let's do this to close down the server or cause lag." In fact, that was exactly what Goons did NOT want!! What was wanted was to get the word out, bot "intentionally" create excessive lag. better get them hip waders on and grab a shovel! its gettin deep! Why would the have stopped attacking when this thread went up if their intention was to attack and cause damage?
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:17:00 - [3433] Originally by: eleuthereus WHERE IT STANDS SO FAR - 1. There was T20 incident Hurt us more then it did us any good. It also hasn't proven any close connection with devs that give is favours at all, that's what you make of it. Quote: 2. plexes They might have respawned alot, they also hardly ever dropped loot due to another bug. No billions, sorry. Oh, and we petitioned them too. Quote: 3. very close associations with devs/GMs Seems true. Not surprising however. There's literally dozens upon dozens of volunteers in Eve that would regularly talk to eachother and CCP employees I imagine. They're not limited to BoB either, in fact, I could point out a couple to you in other alliances, which I won't because thee's nothign wrong witht heri presence. Quote: 4. A GM, by teh name of Sharkbait Wrong, the petition has been found, at worst sharbait didnt mail the ceo, no scandal here boys ! Good you nuked the forums and spread it all over the net tho ! Quote: 5. Charges about CCp rigging RP events continue to go unanswered but are under investigation. They are, and most likely some **** has gone n during events in the past yes. None of it really influences political gameplay much because its mostly emprie allainces involved tho. [center] Old blog
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:19:00 - [3434] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Red Gabba Really I don't expect we as players will ever know who filed the petition, but right now sharkbaits name is cleared imo. Apart from the whole "not bothering to inform the CEO of the corporation he was messing with" issue. Sorry to tell you, but this actually IS CCP's game. They can do whatever they like without telling you.... You should be happy first of all that they sometime do, and secondly even more happy that they're fixing bugs affecting one of your corps. Yes, they can do whatever they like, without telling anyone what-so-ever. But there is also something like common decency, treating your customers with a modicum of respect. Also, take this thread as an extreme example, it might nip those ugly rumours in the bud, keeping all those feathers less ruffled. This might be talking with hindsight, but don't you agree that it would have been better if sharky simply had explained what he was going to do before going in, and/or explained what he had done when coming out? Assuming nothing untoward happened, it would have saved a lot of people a lot of time and aggravation. --
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:19:00 - [3435] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: eleuthereus W 3. very close associations with devs/GMs Seems true. Not surprising however. There's literally dozens upon dozens of volunteers in Eve that would regularly talk to eachother and CCP employees I imagine. They're not limited to BoB either, in fact, I could point out a couple to you in other alliances, which I won't because thee's nothign wrong witht heri presence. Simply amazing.
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:20:00 - [3436] Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 21:19:14 Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Itzena Prove your alliance's innocence in these matters. How ? Yeah, well, that's not my problem. Maybe you and yours should have thought of that before you got into bed with CCP. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
john roe Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:21:00 - [3437] Edited by: john roe on 27/05/2007 21:20:30 do i see it right? is this topic over 130+ pages (sic!) long already? o.0 ...and i though i saw everything. :] anyway, happy posting, folks. adieu
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:22:00 - [3438] Originally by: Rod Blaine Oh, I'm fairly sure that many of those people I mentioned have CCP employees or volunteers on msn as well. Or maybe not on msn, but on IRC. Or maybe they happen to live in the same street. Or maybe they regularly exchange emails on some subjects related to the game. What I mean to say is that in Eve, you can either cut off CCP from the community completely so that only the petition system and the forums offer methods of communication and feedback, or you can decide that you can trust CCP to do it right in general, and correct or punish the instances in which things go wrong. That's the choice you have. It seems rather silly to me to choose option one, seeing as how many of the content and mechanics you use every day haven't been developed exculsively by CCP, but by CCP in conjunction with players, using methods of communication like e-mail, msn or IRC. And it's not just people in BoB that contribute either. Just like there weren't devs in BoB only either, or like there's also ISD event staff outside of the CVA alliance for example. I've said this already, but I think it bears repeating: CCP is suffering from a 'garage mentality'. This, despite being 'all grown up now'. Rod, trusting CCP to do it right obviously doesn't work. Else, Dianabolic wouldn't take for granted he can MSN his friends who just so happen to be Eve developers. Else, Dev's would not have the option of having characters in major power corps. Else, t20 would not have been spawning stuff for his friends. The devs continue to act like Eve is still in closed Beta, and close ties to old playerbase friends is appropriate and indeed preferable. Lines of communication that close are good when you are still developing the game, but as soon as you release it and start charging for it, you have to cut the ties and take several steps back from your players. Because favoritism is likely to happen between 'old friends', is the reason why other gaming companies DON'T allow ties to be maintained. My boss is a woman I've known for 20 years. When I started to work for her, our monthly BBQ's STOPPED. Our phone calls outside of work STOPPED. No more movie nights every so often. Nada. She's my boss, and it's not fair to the other employees for an 'extra' relationship to exist between us that they can't access. We both knew that was a price of establishing a working relationship. For CCP NOT to know this is naive and pitiable. Further, I think you are framing a false dichotomy between no contact and total trust. It is quite possible to maintain highly informative player-developer relations without it smacking of collusion or without freeing CCP of any scrutiny and trusting them totally. An example of this would be an open-to-all weekly irc chat, that was advertised and transparent. We have a test server and a bug hunting program. We have a pretty good forum community (outside of COAD). Obviously, you can claim those aren't used by the majority of Eve players, even when it SHOULD be. Fair enough. That's a problem I guess, though not an insurmountable one. Other games seem to get along just fine w/o having Devs OR players on speed dial. Eve needs to figure out how they do it and copy them. Worse to my mind though is trusting CCP to do the right thing. They don't have a spotless record. They JUST formed an IA department, 4 YEARS after release, ONLY after significant issues cropped up that should not have cropped up to begin with. If they want to be taken seriously, they have to demonstrate they are worthy of respect by having structures already in place to deal with issues before they turn into ugly public nightmares. Goonfleet may be relishing their mess, but had CCP not already been under a dark cloud because of their own inadequate systems, there would have been nothing for the goons to 'hook into'. People would have laughed it off. CCP needs to act like a mature organization with clear cut limits, just like every other company out there. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Iron McFly CHAF tech	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:22:00 - [3439] Originally by: SterlingReps My dear citizens who are you where are you from and where are you going? What is it you hope to hold so tight in your grasp that that thing you would have only continues to slip little by little through your fingers? You call for justice but it is not justice you want. You call for reparations, but it is not reparations you want. It is a reach that exceeds your grasp Comfort without cost. Profit without the unpleasant prospect for risk or loss None of these can be had. A new order is needed and the time long at hand. I submit it is the mediocrity we live, the entropy, the stagnate state we now endure that needs be sluffed off like the dead gangrening stenched skin weÆve far too long clung too. The proof is placed right in front of you; put it to the test then. I fear the gauntlet has been dropped and you neither recognize its fall nor have the will to pick it up! The calls here are for æadministrative measuresÆ, for some perceived slight. And to the developerÆs credit, they resist the temptation. The problem is obvious and the solutions even more so. You have named it, but what will you risk? Your accumulated wealth? Your precious possessions? Will you risk all to change all and start a new? Stir predictable preset economies? Shift the boarders, allow powers to fall and give rise to the new? Will you risk beginning over stronger than before better than before? Will you risk your running position to start again to prove your worth and metal? Easy for me, given my late start and yet with so little and what little hard earned; I and others would risk far more than most. Yet, I am bold enough to think I may know a way, to solve the problem once and take the developers at their words, put the claims of open, player driven, unbiased evolving universe, to the test. lol - thanks dude - that post Blows Hot Air like a Politician pretending he can reconcile two opposing sides in an arguement. It did entertain my imagination as I looked in vain for your point. The solution is "Obvious" ? 1) We all Quit ? 2) EVE is Reset or Sharded ? 3) We suspend this Frenzy of Dialog and just accept whatever BoD+CCP give us after their privy MSN pow-wow ? I choose option 4) Post in this thread again, and again if needed. I may only have 18 months in this game, mostly as a loner, but that certain issues have only been addressed by long nagging threads is clear - and NOT a DDoS Attack just to punish CCP like rouge hackers hating MicroSoft. Example: Fix the New Regions thread. After a month, on page 18, Post 536 Tomb of CCP says, Quote: I must admit I feel stupid not to see the true issue until now and having spend quite a lot of development time into digging holes at wrong locations. But the good part is that we are going to fix this, might take some time though because asteroids seeding is quite an extensive action. So anyway - Thanks - your Hot Air Post will help here too - I Hope Soon(tm)
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:23:00 - [3440] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: eleuthereus WHERE IT STANDS SO FAR - 1. There was T20 incident Hurt us more then it did us any good. It also hasn't proven any close connection with devs that give is favours at all, that's what you make of it. What? You mean getting t2bpo for free isnt proof of giving you favours?
Smith Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:23:00 - [3441] Originally by: Itzena Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 21:19:14 Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Itzena Prove your alliance's innocence in these matters. How ? Yeah, well, that's not my problem. Maybe you and yours should have thought of that before you got into bed with CCP. Are you implying that Rod Blaine is in bed with CCP? Can you prove this?
Ozzie Asrail Exploited	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:23:00 - [3442] Originally by: eleuthereus 2. "Bugged" 10/10 plex in BOB's space that spawned hourly (I believe) yielded billions in ISK for BOB, and it remaiend quiet until some honest BOB guys (of which there are many, I do not doubt) alerted the proper people at CCP. But by then, it was too late to do anything about the isk already distributed throughout BOB. This has This has led to widespread mistrust of CCP and has confirmed apparent close connections between devs/GMs and BOB that result in in-game playing favors. Your more than happy to make use of the exploited billions that RA made from the bugged angel complexes. But i guess your perfectly able to overloook that little issue when it comes to witch-hunting others... -----
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:23:00 - [3443] Edited by: Alias11 on 27/05/2007 21:22:30 Originally by: Verone words go here My point isn't that those things are somehow the same, but the EULA is worded so poorly and makes no distinction between them. It's a poorly written piece of garbage. Nowhere in there does it say that "Piracy, Scamming, Corp theft, etc. are exempt from this rule". your point is watertight, the EULA isn't. The proper channels were used, and ignored, we did what we had to do to get this issue the attention it deserved when standard methods fell through Originally by: Kerfira Sorry to tell you, but this actually IS CCP's game. They can do whatever they like without telling you.... You should be happy first of all that they sometime do, and secondly even more happy that they're fixing bugs affecting one of your corps. But noooo, rather use it to hurt the game, ehh? Standard Goon MO ?? Does the concept of social contract mean ANYTHING to you
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:24:00 - [3444] Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 21:22:46 Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 21:22:39 Originally by: Smith Originally by: Itzena Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 21:19:14 Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Itzena Prove your alliance's innocence in these matters. How ? Yeah, well, that's not my problem. Maybe you and yours should have thought of that before you got into bed with CCP. Are you implying that Rod Blaine is in bed with CCP? Can you prove this? /points at his (and your) Alliance tag. Done. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:25:00 - [3445] Originally by: Smith Originally by: Itzena Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 21:19:14 Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Itzena Prove your alliance's innocence in these matters. How ? Yeah, well, that's not my problem. Maybe you and yours should have thought of that before you got into bed with CCP. Are you implying that Rod Blaine is in bed with CCP? Can you prove this? It's more of BoB that he was talking about, and that ship sailed when T20 provided BPOs and capital ship advice that no one else had. Also there are pictures of Rod in the bed, but that's not fit for polite company.
Bi Tor	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:26:00 - [3446] Originally by: Kalitern Tarha Originally by: Ling Xiao I find it hilarious how many no-faced "new" players are 100x more vocal in this thread than anyone else I've got a face if it makes you happy.. and as far as you sig goes, I play rigged games all the time.. Casino's ARE rigged and if this game is as well oh well it's not like I'm poor and I've plenty of spare time When you play in the Casinos you know the rule of the game BEFORE you start to play. You know that in most game the house is going to win. That is how the game is set up and those are the rules. However, in EvE it was implied that I have as much chance to win as the next guy, given that I apply myself. It appears that this is not true Originally by: eleuthereus WHERE IT STANDS SO FAR - 1. There was T20 incident a few months ago where a CCP dev gave free BPOs to BOB - an action that in turn was discovered and screamed about publicly. The offending CCP employee was slapped on the wrist. This has This has led to widespread mistrust of CCP and has confirmed apparent close connections between devs/GMs and BOB that result in in-game playing favors. 2. "Bugged" 10/10 plex in BOB's space that spawned hourly (I believe) yielded billions in ISK for BOB, and it remaiend quiet until some honest BOB guys (of which there are many, I do not doubt) alerted the proper people at CCP. But by then, it was too late to do anything about the isk already distributed throughout BOB. This has This has led to widespread mistrust of CCP and has confirmed apparent close connections between devs/GMs and BOB that result in in-game playing favors. 3. Members of BOB have admitted (boasted, in fact) on more than one occasion, both in-game and on forum posts, that they enjoy some very close associations with devs/GMs, so close in fact that they can instant message them in-game and get things done almost immediately, unlike the average pilot in other corps/alliances. This has This has led to widespread mistrust of CCP and has confirmed apparent close connections between devs/GMs and BOB that result in in-game playing favors. Elmo, This is why BoB keeps trying to derail this thread. If collusion is proven, then there is reasonable grounds to call for the immediate destruction of their Alliance and all of its assets. This could possibly include the banning of several accounts, most of them being high level BoB members/?Devs? Whatever happens, BoB in it's entirety do not want you or I to know how much information/material they have gained from their contacts with the Devs. So, they will continue to misdirect and slander any and all that post against them. Bite Me! Bi`Tor
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:27:00 - [3447] Edited by: Kerfira on 27/05/2007 21:27:46 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Kerfira My stuff.. I'm not paying 10 dollars to read goons talk about bob. I'm asking you HOW it hurts the game. WHAT effect is there other than removing the APPEARANCE of corruption even if it doesn't exist. Oh, get real.... Tarnishing the games reputation across the net as they've done is directly equivalent to economic damage.... Originally by: Elmo Noguchi 1) Why are you ignoring the other 3 issues? ISD guy getting fired, RP events rigged, BoB admits to dev contact? Not ignoring them. 1. He was fired for abusing his ISD powers and not following ISD rules, which say he is to leave if players request him to, and that he may not interfere in the game (bumping dreads seems like interfering to me). Completely sensible. 2. The RP events were not rigged towards any PLAYER group, they were SCRIPTED (as in a D&D game) so the intended storyline for the game would continue as planned. Completely sensible. 3. I'm sure plenty of people know someone in CCP. I see no harm in that, unless they gain unfair advantage from it. Reporting an ISD member breaking the rules set for ISD seem a well reasoned use for such contacts to me. How anyone can claim that having a rule-breaking, game-interfering ISD member removed as fast as possible is 'Corruption' is beyond me. Originally by: Elmo Noguchi 2) Why is your answer to how they 'hurt the game' - "No, they orchestrated and timed it exactly this way because... THEY WANT TO HURT THE GAME." Why would they want that? How does this hurt it? HOW??? How should I know why the Goons wreck games for their amusement?? Ask them!!! As to how, look above.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:29:00 - [3448] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 27/05/2007 21:27:46 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Kerfira My stuff.. I'm not paying 10 dollars to read goons talk about bob. I'm asking you HOW it hurts the game. WHAT effect is there other than removing the APPEARANCE of corruption even if it doesn't exist. Oh, get real.... Tarnishing the games reputation across the net as they've done is directly equivalent to economic damage.... Originally by: Elmo Noguchi 1) Why are you ignoring the other 3 issues? ISD guy getting fired, RP events rigged, BoB admits to dev contact? Not ignoring them. 1. He was fired for abusing his ISD powers and not following ISD rules, which say he is to leave if players request him to, and that he may not interfere in the game (bumping dreads seems like interfering to me). Completely sensible. 2. The RP events were not rigged towards any PLAYER group, they were SCRIPTED (as in a D&D game) so the intended storyline for the game would continue as planned. Completely sensible. 3. I'm sure plenty of people know someone in CCP. I see no harm in that, unless they gain unfair advantage from it. Reporting an ISD member breaking the rules set for ISD seem a well reasoned use for such contacts to me. How anyone can claim that having a rule-breaking, game-interfering ISD member removed as fast as possible is 'Corruption' is beyond me. Originally by: Elmo Noguchi 2) Why is your answer to how they 'hurt the game' - "No, they orchestrated and timed it exactly this way because... THEY WANT TO HURT THE GAME." Why would they want that? How does this hurt it? HOW??? How should I know why the Goons wreck games for their amusement?? Ask them!!! As to how, look above.... Post with your main, please. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Hermia HIVE X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:29:00 - [3449] Im pleased new information is comming from IA. Just wish everything was kept under wraps initially. Maybe im naive but i always thought it was cool CCP took an interest in the players. Over the years that fact has even been used as a selling point, usually at the expense of companies like Blizzard, SOE, etc. All very easy for me to say ofcourse, im not in the high end game, i dont participate in the main competition.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:29:00 - [3450] Originally by: Alias11 My point isn't that those things are somehow the same, but the EULA is worded so poorly and makes no distinction between them. It's a poorly written piece of garbage. Nowhere in there does it say that "Piracy, Scamming, Corp theft, etc. are exempt from this rule". your point is watertight, the EULA isn't. The proper channels were used, and ignored, we did what we had to do to get this issue the attention it deserved when standard methods fell through EULA is pretty clear actually... well maybe not for a goon... So, when you 'did what we had to do', how was smearing ccp's and eve's good name all over OTHER websites part of helping get your issue escalated. "did what we had to do', you did what you god damn pleased with no regard to the community. anyone w/ half a brain knows this, no matter how many forum bunnies you have come in here and post. I know one thing that is water tight: Originally by: Kerfira Sorry to tell you, but this actually IS CCP's game. Ban ever person linked to escalating this witchhunt. If it were my game, and some cry babies like SA goons were throwing a fit over losing the war and decided to try and hit my pocketbook instead of lose with grace, you wouldn't have a member under your flag with an active account ! that would be ME 'doing what i had to do'
Hajyt	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:32:00 - [3451] Hopefully something is learned from all this in the end. No dev powers on main server unless authorized by a few people above them. When they are used, make them fully documented to avoid situations like this. Frap it or something. Regardless of the staff members intentions, things like joining a corp and using their POS just looks very very very bad. Have an ethics talk with every employee about CCP neutrality on all in-game matters, with employment termination the result of any biased behavior. Hopefully that'll stop any future hundred page forum posts hah
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:33:00 - [3452] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 27/05/2007 21:26:47 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Kerfira My stuff.. I'm not paying 10 dollars to read goons talk about bob. I'm asking you HOW it hurts the game. WHAT effect is there other than removing the APPEARANCE of corruption even if it doesn't exist. Oh, get real.... Tarnishing the games reputation across the net as they've done is directly equivalent to economic damage.... Originally by: Elmo Noguchi 1) Why are you ignoring the other 3 issues? ISD guy getting fired, RP events rigged, BoB admits to dev contact? Not ignoring them. 1. He was fired for abusing his ISD powers and not following ISD rules, which say he is to leave if players request him to, and that he may not interfere in the game (bumping dreads seems like interfering to me). Completely sensible. 2. The RP events were not rigged towards any PLAYER group, they were SCRIPTED (as in a D&D game) so the intended storyline for the game would continue as planned. Completely sensible. 3. I'm sure plenty of people know someone in CCP. I see no harm in that, unless they gain unfair advantage from it. Reporting an ISD member breaking the rules set for ISD seem a well reasoned use for such contacts to me. How anyone can claim that having a rule-breaking, game-interfering ISD member removed as fast as possible is 'Corruption' is beyond me. Originally by: Elmo Noguchi 2) Why is your answer to how they 'hurt the game' - "No, they orchestrated and timed it exactly this way because... THEY WANT TO HURT THE GAME." Why would they want that? How does this hurt it? HOW??? How do I know why the Goons wreck games for their amusement?? Ask them!!! As to how, look above.... I see your points- just disagree. I'd rather have an honest game experience even if it took some economic damage to do it. You can't dismiss any of the charges against CCP because you don't know anything more about them than the goons do. Your word on why it's ok is as empty to me as theirs is to you. Can you see where I'm coming from? Quote: 'm sure plenty of people know someone in CCP. I see no harm in that, unless they gain unfair advantage from it. Reporting an ISD member breaking the rules set for ISD seem a well reasoned use for such contacts to me. How anyone can claim that having a rule-breaking, game-interfering ISD member removed as fast as possible is 'Corruption' is beyond me. Because it was done at the request of players, using methods that other players don't have, and the punishment didn't fit the crime. I'm still flabbergasted that you and BoB people in this thread can say that it's okay to have outside connection to members of CCP. In any other professional business, that sort of thing is never accepted. It's completely out of the pale. Finally, I don't concede that causing publicity that DEBATEABLY caused economic damage in order to get past a stonewall is an attempt to destroy the game. You still haven't shown how the goons are trying to do that other than claiming it's their standard MO. Thanks for your well thought response.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:33:00 - [3453] Originally by: Itzena Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 27/05/2007 21:27:46 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Kerfira My stuff.. I'm not paying 10 dollars to read goons talk about bob. I'm asking you HOW it hurts the game. WHAT effect is there other than removing the APPEARANCE of corruption even if it doesn't exist. Oh, get real.... Tarnishing the games reputation across the net as they've done is directly equivalent to economic damage.... Originally by: Elmo Noguchi 1) Why are you ignoring the other 3 issues? ISD guy getting fired, RP events rigged, BoB admits to dev contact? Not ignoring them. 1. He was fired for abusing his ISD powers and not following ISD rules, which say he is to leave if players request him to, and that he may not interfere in the game (bumping dreads seems like interfering to me). Completely sensible. 2. The RP events were not rigged towards any PLAYER group, they were SCRIPTED (as in a D&D game) so the intended storyline for the game would continue as planned. Completely sensible. 3. I'm sure plenty of people know someone in CCP. I see no harm in that, unless they gain unfair advantage from it. Reporting an ISD member breaking the rules set for ISD seem a well reasoned use for such contacts to me. How anyone can claim that having a rule-breaking, game-interfering ISD member removed as fast as possible is 'Corruption' is beyond me. Originally by: Elmo Noguchi 2) Why is your answer to how they 'hurt the game' - "No, they orchestrated and timed it exactly this way because... THEY WANT TO HURT THE GAME." Why would they want that? How does this hurt it? HOW??? How should I know why the Goons wreck games for their amusement?? Ask them!!! As to how, look above.... Post with your main, please. Mains don't matter! The ideas are all that matter. Don't fall into the BoB elitism on this matter, it's one of the few places you guys are/were genuinely superior to them.
Del ReyII Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:34:00 - [3454] Geek Alert Reminds me of the ST:TNG episode: Drumhead :/
Ozzie Asrail Exploited	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:34:00 - [3455] Originally by: Itzena Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 21:22:46 Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 21:22:39 Originally by: Smith Originally by: Itzena Edited by: Itzena on 27/05/2007 21:19:14 Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Itzena Prove your alliance's innocence in these matters. How ? Yeah, well, that's not my problem. Maybe you and yours should have thought of that before you got into bed with CCP. Are you implying that Rod Blaine is in bed with CCP? Can you prove this? /points at his (and your) Alliance tag. Done. /points at your own Allaince tag. Goons got caught hacking the client, your a member, therefore I have just proved you should get banned. See... It's pretty stupid to generalise. -----
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:35:00 - [3456] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: eleuthereus WHERE IT STANDS SO FAR - 1. There was T20 incident Hurt us more then it did us any good. It also hasn't proven any close connection with devs that give is favours at all, that's what you make of it. Quote: I'm sorry, 'but hasn't proven any close connection with devs that give [us] favors'? I'm hoping you made a simple error here. Otherwise, your grasp on reality is shaky. How does this NOT show favoritism by a Dev towards you? If one dev gave you something, why not others? That's certainly a possibility. Though it doesn't show all devs favor you, it certainly opens the door for that, logically speaking. I think it best if you not try and use this example to disprove allegations of favoritism. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:36:00 - [3457] Originally by: HankMurphy Ban ever person linked to escalating this witchhunt. If it were my game, and some cry babies like SA goons were throwing a fit over losing the war and decided to try and hit my pocketbook instead of lose with grace, you wouldn't have a member under your flag with an active account ! that would be ME 'doing what i had to do' Are you so abysmally dumb that you can't admit the possibility that this is somewhat correct and it would be bad if it was? You're actually so biased that you won't even ADMIT THE POSSIBILITY? You want to ban anyone open-minded enough to push for an investigation? You would have been a ****. Sorry to bring Godwin into it, but you straight up would have been one.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:37:00 - [3458] Originally by: Itzena Originally by: Kerfira My stuff.... Post with your main, please. One of the usual responses on E-O when you see some unpleasant truths being exposed about you that you can't wiggle your way out of.... FYI, no, I'll not post with my main because I'll not have my main war'dec'd.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:38:00 - [3459] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Itzena Originally by: Kerfira My stuff.... Post with your main, please. One of the usual responses on E-O when you see some unpleasant truths being exposed about you that you can't wiggle your way out of.... FYI, no, I'll not post with my main because I'll not have my main war'dec'd.... We agree for once. Attacking the person's character when yo u can't deal with their ideas is pretty silly.
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:38:00 - [3460] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Itzena Originally by: Kerfira My stuff.... Post with your main, please. One of the usual responses on E-O when you see some unpleasant truths being exposed about you that you can't wiggle your way out of.... FYI, no, I'll not post with my main because I'll not have my main war'dec'd.... But we're already fighting BoB.... -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:39:00 - [3461] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: HankMurphy Ban ever person linked to escalating this witchhunt. If it were my game, and some cry babies like SA goons were throwing a fit over losing the war and decided to try and hit my pocketbook instead of lose with grace, you wouldn't have a member under your flag with an active account ! that would be ME 'doing what i had to do' Are you so abysmally dumb that you can't admit the possibility that this is somewhat correct and it would be bad if it was? You're actually so biased that you won't even ADMIT THE POSSIBILITY? You want to ban anyone open-minded enough to push for an investigation? You would have been a **. Sorry to bring Godwin into it, but you straight up would have been one. your calling me dumb and a **? but i guess if i said all Bob players cheat.. that would be ok? I said, if it were my game, thats what i would do. Its not dumb, if you were part of an organization that rallied support on an out of game website against me, then proceeded to ATTACK my website, all of them ALL OF THEM would be gone. period. I'd make an example of you. I'm not putting ppl in gas chambers, i'd be kicking them out of MY game. MY property.
Hachun K'ar	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:39:00 - [3462] Originally by: Itzena Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Itzena Originally by: Kerfira My stuff.... Post with your main, please. One of the usual responses on E-O when you see some unpleasant truths being exposed about you that you can't wiggle your way out of.... FYI, no, I'll not post with my main because I'll not have my main war'dec'd.... But we're already fighting BoB.... He meant BoB lovers war dec'ing him
Khorian Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:40:00 - [3463] Even if CCP refutes all points now, the damage to their image is done. It's all over the internet by now. Good job, you really must like this game. If you don't see whats wrong about this lynch-mob mentality I can't help you. We can be pretty sure by now that Sharkbait just did his job. This first point was blown out of proportion alot. A direct mail to IA would have probably solved the problem without tarnishing CCPs reputation. Lets wait and see about the other points. --------------------- This is the signature
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:40:00 - [3464] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 21:40:45 Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: HankMurphy Ban ever person linked to escalating this witchhunt. If it were my game, and some cry babies like SA goons were throwing a fit over losing the war and decided to try and hit my pocketbook instead of lose with grace, you wouldn't have a member under your flag with an active account ! that would be ME 'doing what i had to do' Are you so abysmally dumb that you can't admit the possibility that this is somewhat correct and it would be bad if it was? You're actually so biased that you won't even ADMIT THE POSSIBILITY? You want to ban anyone open-minded enough to push for an investigation? You would have been a **. Sorry to bring Godwin into it, but you straight up would have been one. your calling me dumb and a **? but i guess if i said all Bob players cheat.. that would be ok? I said, if it were my game, thats what i would do. Its not dumb, if you were part of an organization that rallied support on an out of game website against me, then proceeded to ATTACK my website, all of them ALL OF THEM would be gone. period. I'd make an example of you. I'm not putting ppl in gas chambers, i'd be kicking them out of MY game. MY property. Okay, I understand now. I still think it's pretty silly to punish people who want a fair and level playing field, but I misunderstood the context. You ever been a leader or run a (real) business? You don't have to answer that.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:41:00 - [3465] Originally by: Khorian Even if CCP refutes all points now, the damage to their image is done. It's all over the internet by now. Good job, you really must like this game. If you don't see whats wrong about this lynch-mob mentality I can't help you. We can be pretty sure by now that Sharkbait just did his job. This first point was blown out of proportion alot. A direct mail to IA would have probably solved the problem without tarnishing CCPs reputation. Lets wait and see about the other points. Khorian, this has been a continuing point with you - where is it that CCP recommends emailling the IA? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks for your help.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:43:00 - [3466] Pushing for an investigation doesn't equal causing willfull damage to the company, And certainly not when the normal means of escalating things aren't even used to their full extent yet. Isn't that rather obvious ? [center] Old blog
Khorian Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:44:00 - [3467] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Khorian Even if CCP refutes all points now, the damage to their image is done. It's all over the internet by now. Good job, you really must like this game. If you don't see whats wrong about this lynch-mob mentality I can't help you. We can be pretty sure by now that Sharkbait just did his job. This first point was blown out of proportion alot. A direct mail to IA would have probably solved the problem without tarnishing CCPs reputation. Lets wait and see about the other points. Khorian, this has been a continuing point with you - where is it that CCP recommends emailling the IA? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks for your help. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=475706 The e-mail is [email protected] --------------------- This is the signature
Daveydweeb	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:47:00 - [3468] I notice that Arkanon's latest post on the matter fails to explain (or even mention) why CEO Pyrex's petition was deleted, or why CCP Sharkbait refused to talk to him. I pay by PayPal, so at this rate I'll probably just let my subscription die. I'm not sure I can afford to play EVE at all, and I find even less incentive in doing so when it means giving my money to a company that so profoundly misunderstands the value of transparency, or for that matter, credibility.
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:48:00 - [3469] Edited by: Vantras on 27/05/2007 21:47:16 Page 12, post 345... Post that alone on any major gaming site..with an explanation as to who Dianbolic is and what BOB is in this game..... You dont need anything else. Not the petition about sharkbait, not the ISD guy getting fired, nothing. Just that THE major alliance in EVE, responsible for total domination is completely cozy with thier "FRIENDS" the developers in game and out of game. Add to it CCP's policy of fully encouraging thier devs/gm's to not only play the game but to actively particpate in fleet commanding, politics, trading, building ships, etc etc.. just add that...erase all the goonie accusations--use Dianbolics own words and CCP's own policy...that will be enough for CCP's to enjoy the reputation its currently developing.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:49:00 - [3470] Originally by: Tree Fiddy Looks to me the Goons are getting desperate. They thought numbers would do it for them but they are just to useless. Baseless accusations and poo stirring now seem to be the way forward. Why dont you get back to that slum that you call a forum and find some other MMORPG you can try and take over. You arent wanted here thats for sure. Goons definitely think that the war is more important than the overall level playing field of the game, you're right. Even though most of their issues don't even involve BoB, this must be a way to attack BoB. How could I be so blind!
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:50:00 - [3471] Edited by: Kerfira on 27/05/2007 21:51:50 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... I see your points- just disagree. I'd rather have an honest game experience even if it took some economic damage to do it. You can't dismiss any of the charges against CCP because you don't know anything more about them than the goons do. Your word on why it's ok is as empty to me as theirs is to you. Can you see where I'm coming from? That's true, but what I've done is apply a critical eye to the accusations brought forward (and found them lacking to say the least), noted that Goons gave CCP a paltry 4 hours (and 2 minutes) to handle a petition about it (and we all know that petitions are not handled fast), and also noted their VERY careful timing of this JUST at the end of a friday before a holiday weekend, and then of.c. their carefully orchestrated campaign against EVE outside of E-O. Based on that, and having read SA in the past, I have no doubt as to their real objectives, and they're far from anything like wanting issues resolved. Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Kerfira More of my stuff Because it was done at the request of players, using methods that other players don't have, and the punishment didn't fit the crime. I'm still flabbergasted that you and BoB people in this thread can say that it's okay to have outside connection to members of CCP. In any other professional business, that sort of thing is never accepted. It's completely out of the pale. Depends on how these contacts are used (please note that players across the game, not just in BoB, has contacts in CCP). I don't see a problem about reporting a rule-breaking, game-interfering ISD member by the fastest means possible. As for what punishment he received, that's CCP's decision and we don't know whether he'd infringed before. If you seriously believed that was ordered by a BoB member to a CCP employee, I advise you to lay off the tinfoil Anyway, thanks for your response. I'm off to bed.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Uruko North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:51:00 - [3472] pls goons. leave the game allready.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:52:00 - [3473] Originally by: Liang Nuren (including placing system cap limits in strategic systems so that $50k USD worth of dreadnoughts could be blown up) by GMs/Devs that have out of normal channel contact with BOB/Alliance/Coalition is, in my mind, worth a class action lawsuit. Swing... and miss. There is nor ever has been a system cap in place. Nice example of one of you guys shouting something then others repeating it untill it becomes 'truth'. [center] Old blog
Ozzie Asrail Exploited	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:53:00 - [3474] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Tree Fiddy Looks to me the Goons are getting desperate. They thought numbers would do it for them but they are just to useless. Baseless accusations and poo stirring now seem to be the way forward. Why dont you get back to that slum that you call a forum and find some other MMORPG you can try and take over. You arent wanted here thats for sure. Goons definitely think that the war is more important than the overall level playing field of the game, you're right. Even though most of their issues don't even involve BoB, this must be a way to attack BoB. How could I be so blind! Please... client hacks, bookmark bombs, systematic GTC sales, happy to use RA's exploited complex ISK. Yea goons just want a level playing field -----
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:53:00 - [3475] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Kerfira More of my stuff Because it was done at the request of players, using methods that other players don't have, and the punishment didn't fit the crime. I'm still flabbergasted that you and BoB people in this thread can say that it's okay to have outside connection to members of CCP. In any other professional business, that sort of thing is never accepted. It's completely out of the pale. Depends on how these contacts are used (please note that players across the game, not just in BoB, has contacts in CCP). I don't see a problem about reporting a rule-breaking, game-interfering ISD member by the fastest means possible. As for what punishment he received, that's CCP's decision and we odn't know whether he'd infringed before. If you seriously believed that was ordered by a BoB member to a CCP employee, I advise you to lay off the tinfoil We'll probably never know on this one- re: the IA guy. I still stand by my point that these outside connections (in any alliance) are unprofessional and outlandish.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:54:00 - [3476] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Liang Nuren (including placing system cap limits in strategic systems so that $50k USD worth of dreadnoughts could be blown up) by GMs/Devs that have out of normal channel contact with BOB/Alliance/Coalition is, in my mind, worth a class action lawsuit. Swing... and miss. There is nor ever has been a system cap in place. Nice example of one of you guys shouting something then others repeating it untill it becomes 'truth'. Of course there was a system cap. It wasn't put in there to surprise the goons, it was a method to prevent JV1V style crashes. What a ridiculous thing to say, though.
Ozzie Asrail Exploited	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:55:00 - [3477] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Liang Nuren (including placing system cap limits in strategic systems so that $50k USD worth of dreadnoughts could be blown up) by GMs/Devs that have out of normal channel contact with BOB/Alliance/Coalition is, in my mind, worth a class action lawsuit. Swing... and miss. There is nor ever has been a system cap in place. Nice example of one of you guys shouting something then others repeating it untill it becomes 'truth'. Of course there was a system cap. It wasn't put in there to surprise the goons, it was a method to prevent JV1V style crashes. What a ridiculous thing to say, though. Proof? -----
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:55:00 - [3478] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Tree Fiddy Looks to me the Goons are getting desperate. They thought numbers would do it for them but they are just to useless. Baseless accusations and poo stirring now seem to be the way forward. Why dont you get back to that slum that you call a forum and find some other MMORPG you can try and take over. You arent wanted here thats for sure. Goons definitely think that the war is more important than the overall level playing field of the game, you're right. Even though most of their issues don't even involve BoB, this must be a way to attack BoB. How could I be so blind! Please... client hacks, bookmark bombs, systematic GTC sales, happy to use RA's exploited complex ISK. Yea goons just want a level playing field Bookmark bombs- stopped. GTC sales- legal. Why would RA give them any ISK? They have enough people to farm their own. Could someone link me to info on Goon client hacks? I've always only heard of it 2nd or 3rd hand.
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:55:00 - [3479] Originally by: Vantras Edited by: Vantras on 27/05/2007 21:47:16 Page 12, post 345... Post that alone on any major gaming site..with an explanation as to who Dianbolic is and what BOB is in this game..... You dont need anything else. Not the petition about sharkbait, not the ISD guy getting fired, nothing. Just that THE major alliance in EVE, responsible for total domination is completely cozy with thier "FRIENDS" the developers in game and out of game. Add to it CCP's policy of fully encouraging thier devs/gm's to not only play the game but to actively particpate in fleet commanding, politics, trading, building ships, etc etc.. just add that...erase all the goonie accusations--use Dianbolics own words and CCP's own policy...that will be enough for CCP's to enjoy the reputation its currently developing. There's a lot of truth in this post. I'm getting more and more convinced that the current situation can not continue ... --
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:55:00 - [3480] Originally by: Cheng The bpo/bpo's were removed by CPP - 6 months after the fact, right? Only after somebody blew the whistle, and get all his accounts banned for doing it, right? Well whoopdee-s**t, if that doesn't prove the honesty and efficency of CCP nothing will. I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either. there's no such thing as bad press
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:56:00 - [3481] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 21:56:05 Originally by: Ozzie Asrail Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Liang Nuren (including placing system cap limits in strategic systems so that $50k USD worth of dreadnoughts could be blown up) by GMs/Devs that have out of normal channel contact with BOB/Alliance/Coalition is, in my mind, worth a class action lawsuit. Swing... and miss. There is nor ever has been a system cap in place. Nice example of one of you guys shouting something then others repeating it untill it becomes 'truth'. Of course there was a system cap. It wasn't put in there to surprise the goons, it was a method to prevent JV1V style crashes. What a ridiculous thing to say, though. Proof? Ok, you caught me- I have none. It only makes sense, though, from the perspective that CCP is a reasonable group most of the time. Why not acknowledge this one? I'm confused why you guys don't want to admit it exists. It's not like if it does exist it's some conspiracy against goons OR BoB
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:57:00 - [3482] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/05/2007 21:57:30 No there wasn't elmo. I was there. If there was a system cap (condede I'm not sure, but if later cases i've seen local go higher then there and it never capped out, It also never seems to actually have been patched in, but only gets one reference in a "in development" blog.) then it never got hit anyway, local never got above approximately 350 people while i was there (the entire duration of the fight), only 150 of which were BoB or BoB friendly btw. [center] Old blog
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:57:00 - [3483] Originally by: Cheng They were just regular players, enjoying EvE just like everyone else. And at somepoint, in those 4 years of playing, some got to be devs and some got to be gm's. These players who got hired also were allowed to keep their player accounts. There's the real problem here and like I said, everything else is the symptom of this huge conflict of interest. There is a reason no other company that runs a MMOG allows this to happen the way CCP does.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:58:00 - [3484] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 21:57:33 Originally by: Rod Blaine No there wasn't elmo. I was there. If there was a system cap (condede I'm not sure, but if later cases i've seen local go higher then there and it never capped out) then it never got hit anyway, local never got above approximately 350 people while i was there (the entire duration of the fight), only 150 of which were BoB or BoB friendly btw. I heard the cap was 700 in the system where you guys beat up the coalition dread fleet attacking the capital shipyard? Edit: Whatever- it's neither here nor there.
Trind2222 Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:58:00 - [3485] Originally by: Cheng Edited by: Cheng on 27/05/2007 21:48:25 Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: eleuthereus WHERE IT STANDS SO FAR - 1. There was T20 incident Hurt us more then it did us any good. It also hasn't proven any close connection with devs that give is favours at all, that's what you make of it. What? You mean getting t2bpo for free isnt proof of giving you favours? The bpo/bpo's were removed by CPP - The damage he is talking about is the reputation. That incident caused EvE community to get a wrong impression of BoB. t20 was acting alone, what he did does not reprisent whole of BoB. But hey, most of eve went to war with us... So we get to kill more ***. That's the one good thing that came from this incident.. You realise that when the individuals in BoB got the MSN address from their friends ingame, they were not devs or gm's at the time. They were just regular players, enjoying EvE just like everyone else. And at somepoint, in those 4 years of playing, some got to be devs and some got to be gm's. I live in Iceland, I've lived here all my life. My family is VERY big. And do you know what I found out just a month ago? - I found out that my uncle works for CCP and he is in a very high position there. But I've never talked to the man about EvE, infact I have very little relations with him. Does that make me a cheater? - That my uncle got a job at CCP sometime this year and is now in a high position? That is exactly what happened with those few in BoB who have the MSN address of the few devs/gm's that are their friends. EDIT,ADDED* And do you all honestly think that some induviduals in BoB are the ONLY players ingame that has devs/gm's on their contact list on MSN? - Grow up. EDIT,ADDED qft The bob shoud not be draged in to this to much. The fact is ccp mostly done damage here and loks like they have most the explaing to do.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 21:59:00 - [3486] Originally by: DB Preacher Well that was 129 pages of the biggest pile of rubbish I think these forums have seen. The goonies must be really bored but then I guess when we are stripping their stations back one by one, making good on our statement that the goons would not be allowed to claim 0.0 ever again, they have to do something to keep the game interesting. I'm sure this drama will now destroy bob, much like the last pointless bunch of crap did... oh no wait, it just gave us our greatest ingame war. Can't wait to see what this will give us, hehe. dbp Maybe try reading a bit, hmm? Lots of interesting and salient issues have been brought up. Of course, lots of trolls and flames too... guess which pile YOUR comment goes into? Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:00:00 - [3487] Originally by: Trind2222 qft The bob shoud not be draged in to this to much. The fact is ccp mostly done damage here and loks like they have most the explaing to do. Agreed. While BoB may be in the wrong for having outside of game contacts with CCP, they have NO responsibility to cut it off. That's all on CCP's side.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:00:00 - [3488] Edited by: Death Kill on 27/05/2007 21:59:36 Originally by: Cheng That is exactly what happened with those few in BoB who have the MSN address of the few devs/gm's that are their friends. So basicaly you DONT see the conflict of intrest here? And I doubt anyone care about your lifestory, what people care about on the other hand is if people with POWER that mingle with normal players and LET THEM KNOW that they are DEVS or GM's. That the DEVS or GM's want to play the game is fine, but they shouldnt reveal their identity for ethical reasons. And if a person becomes a dev or gm he/she should recycle their character and start a new one that no one knows about. Quote: And do you all honestly think that some induviduals in BoB are the ONLY players ingame that has devs/gm's on their contact list on MSN? - Grow up. EDIT,ADDED You b0bbies really give this your best dont you? so far, your entire alliance has tried to sweep this under the carpet. You want to make this a bob vs goon thing, when its really a case of pathetic cheaters vs the entire community.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:01:00 - [3489] Originally by: Death Kill You b0bbies really give this your best dont you? so far, your entire alliance has tried to sweep this under the carpet. You want to make this a bob vs goon thing, when its really a case f pathetic cheaters vs the entire community. Calling 8 or 10 idiots their 'whole alliance' is pushing it a little bit, don't you think?
Cassandra Bloom Diamonds inc.	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:02:00 - [3490] Originally by: eleuthereus WHERE IT STANDS SO FAR - 1. There was T20 incident a few months ago where a CCP dev gave free BPOs to BOB - an action that in turn was discovered and screamed about publicly. The offending CCP employee was slapped on the wrist. This has This has led to widespread mistrust of CCP and has confirmed apparent close connections between devs/GMs and BOB that result in in-game playing favors. 2. "Bugged" 10/10 plex in BOB's space that spawned hourly (I believe) yielded billions in ISK for BOB, and it remaiend quiet until some honest BOB guys (of which there are many, I do not doubt) alerted the proper people at CCP. But by then, it was too late to do anything about the isk already distributed throughout BOB. This has This has led to widespread mistrust of CCP and has confirmed apparent close connections between devs/GMs and BOB that result in in-game playing favors. 3. Members of BOB have admitted (boasted, in fact) on more than one occasion, both in-game and on forum posts, that they enjoy some very close associations with devs/GMs, so close in fact that they can instant message them in-game and get things done almost immediately, unlike the average pilot in other corps/alliances. This has This has led to widespread mistrust of CCP and has confirmed apparent close connections between devs/GMs and BOB that result in in-game playing favors. 4. A GM, by teh name of Sharkbait, put himself into a Goonswarm corp (Darkstar 1), made himself a direcor, then left the corp -- all without prior knowledge or consent of any Darkstar CEO. Because of game-wide distrust, this was interpreted as a possible BOB dev connection doing sometihng nefarious in the corp. Goons reacted by making public all concerns. CCP now claims Sharkbait infiltrated in response to a petition filed -- although they have not released the name of the Darkstar petitioner, nor has Darkstar been able to assertain which, if any, petition was made. 5. Charges about CCp rigging RP events continue to go unanswered but are under investigation. All this being true no doubt, as a customer CCP really makes me feel like an IDIOT, why have i spent countless months trading, mining, working to get 0.1 percent of what bob got for free in a day. We are over 30.000 players online in this very minute that must feel the same way, so explain yourselves!! I don't deserve to be treated like that, i just love the game and i wanna have fun, all i want is what i paid for, i have spent years playing BY THE RULES and learning the mechanics, the skills, the maps and i know cheating deserves capital punishment NOT CAPITAL SHIPS IN REWARD!! We need those responsible pointed out, terminated and banned, we will deal with the losses and i'll personally stay away from those that you got ridiculously rich, i'll go to the new regions or you can open a wormhole for me.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:02:00 - [3491] d*** elmo get some sleep
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:02:00 - [3492] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 21:57:33 Originally by: Rod Blaine No there wasn't elmo. I was there. If there was a system cap (condede I'm not sure, but if later cases i've seen local go higher then there and it never capped out) then it never got hit anyway, local never got above approximately 350 people while i was there (the entire duration of the fight), only 150 of which were BoB or BoB friendly btw. I heard the cap was 700 in the system where you guys beat up the coalition dread fleet attacking the capital shipyard? Edit: Whatever- it's neither here nor there. The system got nowhere near 700. The lag was caused by the there being over 200 capitals and other ships in a single grid with a POS that was heavily laden with mods. So many people in a POS grid would make the server struggle anyway, let alone when there's 200 capitals trying to simultaniously lock, lauch drones, repair and activate modules and wepeapons as well as dozens of people trying to either jump in/out or warp in/out of the same grid. The system cap got a mention at some point as a possible explanation, and had become your regular irredicable myth by the time someone that actually was there even got around to contradicting it. [center] Old blog
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:02:00 - [3493] Originally by: Rod Blaine There is nor ever has been a system cap in place. Nice example of one of you guys shouting something then others repeating it untill it becomes 'truth'. Except that there were people that couldn't jump in due to a system cap limit. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:03:00 - [3494] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 22:02:45 Originally by: MotherMoon d*** elmo get some sleep I did, I just got up a little bit before you. Does it look like I've been posting for 12 hours straight?
Bi Tor	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:03:00 - [3495] Originally by: Khorian Even if CCP refutes all points now, the damage to their image is done. It's all over the internet by now. Good job, you really must like this game. If you don't see whats wrong about this lynch-mob mentality I can't help you. We can be pretty sure by now that Sharkbait just did his job. This first point was blown out of proportion alot. A direct mail to IA would have probably solved the problem without tarnishing CCPs reputation. Lets wait and see about the other points. Conceded, Sharkbait was doing his job. His only mistake was a profound lack of communication. CCP's mistake an even greater lack of communication. If Sharkbait had gone in and destroyed the POS and said sorry it was bugged there is absolutely nothing that could have been done about it. He would not even have to replace it, he should but only as a standard PR response. Originally by: Cheng Edited by: Cheng on 27/05/2007 21:48:25 Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: eleuthereus WHERE IT STANDS SO FAR - 1. There was T20 incident Hurt us more then it did us any good. It also hasn't proven any close connection with devs that give is favours at all, that's what you make of it. What? You mean getting t2bpo for free isnt proof of giving you favours? The bpo/bpo's were removed by CPP - The damage he is talking about is the reputation. That incident caused EvE community to get a wrong impression of BoB. t20 was acting alone, what he did does not reprisent whole of BoB. But hey, most of eve went to war with us... So we get to kill more ***. That's the one good thing that came from this incident.. You realise that when the individuals in BoB got the MSN address from their friends ingame, they were not devs or gm's at the time. They were just regular players, enjoying EvE just like everyone else. And at somepoint, in those 4 years of playing, some got to be devs and some got to be gm's. I live in Iceland, I've lived here all my life. My family is VERY big. And do you know what I found out just a month ago? - I found out that my uncle works for CCP and he is in a very high position there. But I've never talked to the man about EvE, infact I have very little relations with him. Does that make me a cheater? - That my uncle got a job at CCP sometime this year and is now in a high position? That is exactly what happened with those few in BoB who have the MSN address of the few devs/gm's that are their friends. EDIT,ADDED* And do you all honestly think that some induviduals in BoB are the ONLY players ingame that has devs/gm's on their contact list on MSN? - Grow up. EDIT,ADDED Then this is the real test, your family member may never (in game or out) ever speak to you about any issue related to the game that you could not have found out during your personal game play. Basically, they can not relay to you any information to you that you have not already acquired through NORMAL game play. This type of Restricted information access is very common but is very hard to enforce. Good luck, I suggest you never talk about the game as you will potentially put someones employment in jeopardy. Bite Me! Bi`Tor
Ciras Shelby	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:04:00 - [3496] Originally by: Rod Blaine I was making an example. I don't actually believe this is a goon conspiracy myself. However, the example shows how easy it is to make allegations, that are then hard to disprove. Based on the evidence, these allegations ARE easy to make AND hard to disprove......Indeed!
Bozse Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:04:00 - [3497] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch PS I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace Underlined the reason for u. Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:46:52 Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:45:51 Originally by: Rod Blaine hey also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. Timestamp of Kugutsumen's first post on the Raekhan incident 2007-05-25, 02:23 PM (I won't post the link for obvious reasons but it's easily verifiable) Timestamp of CEO Pyrex's first post regarding the Sharkbait incident on Goonfleet forums 2007-05-25, 16:25 (Orange Species will be able to confirm if asked) So, no, this is not been something we've been sitting on for days or weeks waiting to unleash. So u waited a whooping 14h for the issue to be investigated and resolved before starting to spam the forums demanding answers. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:04:00 - [3498] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 21:57:33 Originally by: Rod Blaine No there wasn't elmo. I was there. If there was a system cap (condede I'm not sure, but if later cases i've seen local go higher then there and it never capped out) then it never got hit anyway, local never got above approximately 350 people while i was there (the entire duration of the fight), only 150 of which were BoB or BoB friendly btw. I heard the cap was 700 in the system where you guys beat up the coalition dread fleet attacking the capital shipyard? Edit: Whatever- it's neither here nor there. doesn't matter what the cap was, if it was in place, BoB only had like 150-200 ships in system If the cap was there is wasn't hurting the goons anyways why are you talking about this? this is not the tread :P more important things are at foot
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:05:00 - [3499] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 22:02:45 Originally by: MotherMoon d*** elmo get some sleep I did, I just got up a little bit before you. Does it look like I've been posting for 12 hours straight? yeah it does lolz you look like a true forum warroir! rawr
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:05:00 - [3500] Edited by: Death Kill on 27/05/2007 22:07:06 Edited by: Death Kill on 27/05/2007 22:04:43 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Calling 8 or 10 idiots their 'whole alliance' is pushing it a little bit, don't you think? Normally yeah that logic sounds about right, but I have yet to read a bob post on these forums that hasnt been written by a condescending jerk....as Cheng wonderfully proved, when he answered an honest question with 'grow up'.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:07:00 - [3501] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 22:06:11 Originally by: Bozse So u waited a whooping 14h for the issue to be investigated and resolved before starting to spam the forums demanding answers. Posting one thread isn't spam. Too bad(for everyone) the thread got deleted.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:07:00 - [3502] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rod Blaine There is nor ever has been a system cap in place. Nice example of one of you guys shouting something then others repeating it untill it becomes 'truth'. Except that there were people that couldn't jump in due to a system cap limit. Liang Wrong, they couldn't jump in (my second account being one of them) due to the system resources being fully used and thus not accepting additional players that wanted to jump in. Once a node hits 100%, it starts refusing additions untill it has free resources again. The same way a jump queue works. In effect, it works the same as in JV1V, except without the nodecrashing. [center] Old blog
Gurn Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:07:00 - [3503] Originally by: Khorian Introducing Arkanon The e-mail is [email protected] Could you post the msn contact details as well?
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:08:00 - [3504] Originally by: Bozse So u waited a whooping 14h for the issue to be investigated and resolved before starting to spam the forums demanding answers. Some of us can't just hop onto MSN, you know. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:08:00 - [3505] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rod Blaine There is nor ever has been a system cap in place. Nice example of one of you guys shouting something then others repeating it untill it becomes 'truth'. Except that there were people that couldn't jump in due to a system cap limit. Liang Wrong, they couldn't jump in (my second account being one of them) due to the system resources being fully used and thus not accepting additional players that wanted to jump in. Once a node hits 100%, it starts refusing additions untill it has free resources again. The same way a jump queue works. In effect, it works the same as in JV1V, except without the nodecrashing. So why didn't it crash like JV1V did, if not some kind of cap to keep the last few straws from breaking the camel's back? Serious question.
Khorian Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:08:00 - [3506] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rod Blaine There is nor ever has been a system cap in place. Nice example of one of you guys shouting something then others repeating it untill it becomes 'truth'. Except that there were people that couldn't jump in due to a system cap limit. Liang Read what Rod just wrote :) I have never seen an engagement in EvE that got even close to 700 in local. Best i saw was 550 in F-TEIT. If there really is a cap, its so high the hardware crumbles before its reached. --------------------- This is the signature
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:09:00 - [3507] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Poolpy Bob members are not entitled to talk about credibility. kthxbye. Oh, and you are? So I'm suppposed to be gagged? What's with all the outrage at goon spammers - I mean honest, unpremeditated 3rd party outrage - having their spam threads locked - i mean censored? Why would I even believe that you had the truth as your objective when all of you lot have spammed this same thread with one-liners for the purpose of trolling, in the hope of getting a response from us that you can then twist into a bigger troll? By your own words here in this forum you've openned CCP up to massive lawsuits which could totally wipe out the game. I showed this thing to law professors at the college I go to and both of them said it's an open and shut case. Congratulations BoB you openned your big mouths and really ruined the game if anyone decides to pursue it. This game has enough problems as it is. If I was CCP and I read this post I'd pay very close attention to my words here, an international lawsuit would be very messy and totally wipe out your company, not to mention what it would do to Eve, I love eve, I have great respect for the game itself, but right now, BoB has shown they have to go. By their own words they have incriminated the lot of them and CCP along with them. Time to clean the house we want the game not crap.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:11:00 - [3508] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rod Blaine There is nor ever has been a system cap in place. Nice example of one of you guys shouting something then others repeating it untill it becomes 'truth'. Except that there were people that couldn't jump in due to a system cap limit. Liang Wrong, they couldn't jump in (my second account being one of them) due to the system resources being fully used and thus not accepting additional players that wanted to jump in. Once a node hits 100%, it starts refusing additions untill it has free resources again. The same way a jump queue works. In effect, it works the same as in JV1V, except without the nodecrashing. So why didn't it crash like JV1V did, if not some kind of cap to keep the last few straws from breaking the camel's back? Serious question. CCP server structure improvements. Since revelations I ahve experienced one single nodecrash. Before that, they were common. My best guess. [center] Old blog
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:11:00 - [3509] Originally by: Rod Blaine Wrong, they couldn't jump in (my second account being one of them) due to the system resources being fully used and thus not accepting additional players that wanted to jump in. Once a node hits 100%, it starts refusing additions untill it has free resources again. The same way a jump queue works. In effect, it works the same as in JV1V, except without the nodecrashing. Which is why I said any GM/Dev favoritism (including any incident such as this, if it could be proven). I've had multiple people first hand tell me that there was a system player cap limit. I have no reason to doubt these people - I do have reason to doubt you (plural). Mostly, that reason revolves around the fact that many higher-ups in BOB have directly admitted to using out of game, personal communication with the CCP GM's/Dev Team for in-game bugs/favors. You also didn't answer any of the other points I raised in the post - which was entirely directed at you, and how BOB has done more financial harm than the Goonies ever thought of doing. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:13:00 - [3510] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rod Blaine There is nor ever has been a system cap in place. Nice example of one of you guys shouting something then others repeating it untill it becomes 'truth'. Except that there were people that couldn't jump in due to a system cap limit. Liang Wrong, they couldn't jump in (my second account being one of them) due to the system resources being fully used and thus not accepting additional players that wanted to jump in. Once a node hits 100%, it starts refusing additions untill it has free resources again. The same way a jump queue works. In effect, it works the same as in JV1V, except without the nodecrashing. So why didn't it crash like JV1V did, if not some kind of cap to keep the last few straws from breaking the camel's back? Serious question. CCP server structure improvements. Since revelations I ahve experienced one single nodecrash. Before that, they were common. My best guess. Seems logical- let's stop derailling.
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:14:00 - [3511] Hey Goons? Originally by: CCP kieron Originally by: Fofalus Also the response to the deleted petition a separate issue or is just being buried with this one? It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless. KaPow. --- Originally by: CCP Arkanon I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers.
DiuxDium Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:15:00 - [3512] Originally by: Angelyn Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Poolpy Bob members are not entitled to talk about credibility. kthxbye. Oh, and you are? So I'm suppposed to be gagged? What's with all the outrage at goon spammers - I mean honest, unpremeditated 3rd party outrage - having their spam threads locked - i mean censored? Why would I even believe that you had the truth as your objective when all of you lot have spammed this same thread with one-liners for the purpose of trolling, in the hope of getting a response from us that you can then twist into a bigger troll? By your own words here in this forum you've openned CCP up to massive lawsuits which could totally wipe out the game. I showed this thing to law professors at the college I go to and both of them said it's an open and shut case. Congratulations BoB you openned your big mouths and really ruined the game if anyone decides to pursue it. This game has enough problems as it is. If I was CCP and I read this post I'd pay very close attention to my words here, an international lawsuit would be very messy and totally wipe out your company, not to mention what it would do to Eve, I love eve, I have great respect for the game itself, but right now, BoB has shown they have to go. By their own words they have incriminated the lot of them and CCP along with them. Time to clean the house we want the game not crap. Lowtax would **** his pants and cry if he saw this garbage spewed by his own members. ------------- The above user should never be taken seriously.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:16:00 - [3513] Originally by: Angelyn Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Poolpy Bob members are not entitled to talk about credibility. kthxbye. Oh, and you are? So I'm suppposed to be gagged? What's with all the outrage at goon spammers - I mean honest, unpremeditated 3rd party outrage - having their spam threads locked - i mean censored? Why would I even believe that you had the truth as your objective when all of you lot have spammed this same thread with one-liners for the purpose of trolling, in the hope of getting a response from us that you can then twist into a bigger troll? By your own words here in this forum you've openned CCP up to massive lawsuits which could totally wipe out the game. I showed this thing to law professors at the college I go to and both of them said it's an open and shut case. Congratulations BoB you openned your big mouths and really ruined the game if anyone decides to pursue it. This game has enough problems as it is. If I was CCP and I read this post I'd pay very close attention to my words here, an international lawsuit would be very messy and totally wipe out your company, not to mention what it would do to Eve, I love eve, I have great respect for the game itself, but right now, BoB has shown they have to go. By their own words they have incriminated the lot of them and CCP along with them. Time to clean the house we want the game not crap. Nonsense. There is no law that prohibits direct contact with clients in ways that other clients could perceive as improper. I mean, imagine a law prohibiting targeted client satisfaction research. Any company is free to approach any client it has to open a dialogue about product development. Sure, that might lead to another client fearing the product line gets to suit him less and the first client more, but there's nothing inherently wrong with having feedback media not open to your total cleint population, legally speaking. Your professors could do with a course on the issue tbh. [center] Old blog
She Storm Minmatar The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:18:00 - [3514] Quote: Wrong, the petition has been found, at worst sharbait didnt mail the ceo, no scandal here boys ! Good you nuked the forums and spread it all over the net tho ! Ok so far from what I see Ark has said in his news item that Sharkbait was responding to a petition. It sounded to me like he asked Sharkbait and the reply was "I responded to a petition" NOT that any petition had been found. AND the corp in question still states that no petitions were filed. SO for now it's still just one person's word against another's which may be all we ever get. Also: My understanding about the reporters and their Polaris Frigates is that to get to a point in space, they pick a target player, and jump to him... having no control over the fact that they come out right on top of that player. In fact in the Reporter's statement he says he came out of warp 1 foot from the target player and immediatly moved to a good distance away. NOW if it is true that this is the way they get to whatever point in space, (which the last time a GM came to help me he landed right on top of me BTW) then how can the guy be getting all this crap if that is how the game mechanic work. Another question. I know I sure as hell can't bump a Domi or Raven in a rifter or celestis, so exactly how much of a bump can these Polaris frigates deliver ??? Just curious on this one
azul	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:18:00 - [3515] You should not get lost in details now who had done what and why and how. There is a FUNDAMENTAL Problem that CCP HAS to deal with: Facts are: It is a HUGE problem, that developers can and do get involved deeply into gamesplay - using their powers for their own advantage or the advantage of their allies - even if it may be only information.... IT SHOULD NOT BE! NEVER EVER! Humans do make mistakes and humans tend to cheat to have advantages! (just watch news about sports, politics or economics) Solution: Install LAWS and MECHANISMs that make cheating impossible instead of attractive as it is now. No more involvement into gameplay/politics for GMs/devs at all! It might be hard, but is the only right thing in the long run. This is the essential message, the rest of this discussion is just framework...
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:18:00 - [3516] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Rod Blaine No there wasn't elmo. I was there. If there was a system cap (condede I'm not sure, but if later cases i've seen local go higher then there and it never capped out) then it never got hit anyway, local never got above approximately 350 people while i was there (the entire duration of the fight), only 150 of which were BoB or BoB friendly btw. I heard the cap was 700 in the system where you guys beat up the coalition dread fleet attacking the capital shipyard? I was there too (well, in a neighboring system. I couldn't get in either before late in the battle). Afaik though, local never went above 550, and that was later in the battle after most of the killing had been done. A far more likely explanation if you know anything about server-client systems is that the node simply went into overload conditions. Think of it, when the enemy fleet jumped in, they jumped directly to the POS being attacked. At that moment, the system (and node), went from being populated by pretty inactive players (i.e. the node didn't have many player actions to process), to very active players targeting, shooting etc. Most likely this caused the node to hit 100% CPU usage. If CCP has implemented their servers like all other people do, when you hit 100% CPU you do 2 things: 1. You prevent new traffic from putting even more load on the node (in EVE terms, that means preventing more players from entering). 2. You start scheduling existing traffic on a first-in, first-out basis (what we see as lag). Note that this is not a desired consequence (in fact, it sux), but it is the best possible solution since the alternative is a node crash. So yes, I believe CCP DID make some changes to their systems after JV1, but these changes were bug-fixes that prevented the node from crashing, not a system cap. I don't know either way, but seen from a client-server point of view and having seen the episode itself, it all matches up. My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Gurn Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:18:00 - [3517] Originally by: Rod Blaine Nonsense. There is no law that prohibits direct contact with clients in ways that other clients could perceive as improper. I mean, imagine a law prohibiting targeted client satisfaction research. Any company is free to approach any client it has to open a dialogue about product development. Sure, that might lead to another client fearing the product line gets to suit him less and the first client more, but there's nothing inherently wrong with having feedback media not open to your total cleint population, legally speaking. Your professors could do with a course on the issue tbh. So you don't see any reason why BoB shouldn't be allowed to contact their friends on msn while playing the game? Even if their friends are developers of the game?
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:18:00 - [3518] Originally by: Rod Blaine So there was a petition after all. Hard to think of which one it could have been eh ? Hard to read the first post by arkanon too where he said that POS were one of the possible reasons to join. One of the problems, imo, was that Arkanon stated (in first news): He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, which was bugged. ( http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1465&tid=1 ) Would be better if he didn't mention that (I guess he was just guessing at the time, and trying to calm down the situation, knowing Sharkbait joins corps to fix POSes), since that added oil to the fire
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:19:00 - [3519] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rod Blaine Wrong, they couldn't jump in (my second account being one of them) due to the system resources being fully used and thus not accepting additional players that wanted to jump in. Once a node hits 100%, it starts refusing additions untill it has free resources again. The same way a jump queue works. In effect, it works the same as in JV1V, except without the nodecrashing. Which is why I said any GM/Dev favoritism (including any incident such as this, if it could be proven). I've had multiple people first hand tell me that there was a system player cap limit. I have no reason to doubt these people - I do have reason to doubt you (plural). Mostly, that reason revolves around the fact that many higher-ups in BOB have directly admitted to using out of game, personal communication with the CCP GM's/Dev Team for in-game bugs/favors. You also didn't answer any of the other points I raised in the post - which was entirely directed at you, and how BOB has done more financial harm than the Goonies ever thought of doing. Liang So your main point is that if BoB says something you want to believe you will believe it, and if they say something you dont want to believe you wont. Why would you take what BoB members said about MSN as fact iof "I do have reason to doubt you(plural)" was true? __________________________________________
Kai'lya Phantom Regiment	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:19:00 - [3520] Originally by: Mitch Manus Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 19:37:18 UPDATE -- New Addition to CCP update: "For further clarification, the petition (Petition #631627) which prompted CCP Sharkbait to join the corporation was created on the 6th of May. After GMs were unable to fix the issue, an email was sent out asking for developer help. CCP Sharkbait reported the matter as resolved the same day, on the 9th of May." Unfortunately, this really tells us very little. Still no actual REASON given. What about the possibility that the member who petitioned it has left DS1 recently? Or is away from the game for few days, or on holiday etc? Hehehe, imagine if you were that guy. Get back from vacation, check the EVE forums... oh... frack.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:23:00 - [3521] Originally by: Rod Blaine Lots of posts Rod, I am impressed. I left this thread a few hours ago to have some beers with some friends and just came back, and you are still here posting away... Just one small question - already asked it to Avon, but he seems unable to answer: If one alliance has many devs as friends and has direct contact to them, it would seem to most humans (no matter wether they play EVE or not) that it is quite possible this alliance does indeed get preferential treatment. My question is simple. How would you recommend ensuring a level playingfield? Not easy, since friends tend to help each other. Also friends can use private phone, e-mail or MSN to get in contact and talk about new features or confidential information. Anyways you know a solution? EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:23:00 - [3522] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rod Blaine Wrong, they couldn't jump in (my second account being one of them) due to the system resources being fully used and thus not accepting additional players that wanted to jump in. Once a node hits 100%, it starts refusing additions untill it has free resources again. The same way a jump queue works. In effect, it works the same as in JV1V, except without the nodecrashing. Which is why I said any GM/Dev favoritism (including any incident such as this, if it could be proven). I've had multiple people first hand tell me that there was a system player cap limit. I have no reason to doubt these people - I do have reason to doubt you (plural). Your loss, I'm not lying nor have I lied in any post in this thread. Local never hit 700, I don't beleive there was a cap, the majority of people in local at the start of the fight was hostile. I can't help they didn't load because they decided to cyno in straight onto the POS grid instead of working with loading spots. Quote: Mostly, that reason revolves around the fact that many higher-ups in BOB have directly admitted to using out of game, personal communication with the CCP GM's/Dev Team for in-game bugs/favors. Many ? Favours ? Quote: You also didn't answer any of the other points I raised in the post - which was entirely directed at you, and how BOB has done more financial harm than the Goonies ever thought of doing. Liang How ? T20 did you mean ? Don't lay that on BoB, or even on the uninvolved BoB leadership. "Fact" is that escalating this to this stage while we're still talking about allegations, and mostly spurious ones at that, is simply wrong. I'd have not made this point if there was conclusive proof of misconduct. Then escalation would be in place or at least understandeable. Now it's not. [center] Old blog
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:23:00 - [3523] Originally by: DiuxDium Edited by: DiuxDium on 27/05/2007 22:15:49 Originally by: Angelyn Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Poolpy Bob members are not entitled to talk about credibility. kthxbye. Oh, and you are? So I'm suppposed to be gagged? What's with all the outrage at goon spammers - I mean honest, unpremeditated 3rd party outrage - having their spam threads locked - i mean censored? Why would I even believe that you had the truth as your objective when all of you lot have spammed this same thread with one-liners for the purpose of trolling, in the hope of getting a response from us that you can then twist into a bigger troll? By your own words here in this forum you've openned CCP up to massive lawsuits which could totally wipe out the game. I showed this thing to law professors at the college I go to and both of them said it's an open and shut case. Congratulations BoB you openned your big mouths and really ruined the game if anyone decides to pursue it. This game has enough problems as it is. If I was CCP and I read this post I'd pay very close attention to my words here, an international lawsuit would be very messy and totally wipe out your company, not to mention what it would do to Eve, I love eve, I have great respect for the game itself, but right now, BoB has shown they have to go. By their own words they have incriminated the lot of them and CCP along with them. Time to clean the house we want the game not crap. Lowtax would **** his pants and cry if he saw this garbage spewed by his own members. e; Also - I showed this thread to the president elect of the interneting laws in association with the RIAA, NCAAP, RAWWRDAR, and the Fact Association Getters, and they all told me you're full of it, he also made a hilarious family guy joke while eating green pudding. True story Actually I was told that after they looked over the legal documentation contract each and every person agrees to before entering the game, these actions are a direct violation of it
Stoned Celt Bloodnok Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:30:00 - [3524] Originally by: Bozse Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch PS I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace Underlined the reason for u. Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:46:52 Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 19:45:51 Originally by: Rod Blaine hey also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis. Timestamp of Kugutsumen's first post on the Raekhan incident 2007-05-25, 02:23 PM (I won't post the link for obvious reasons but it's easily verifiable) Timestamp of CEO Pyrex's first post regarding the Sharkbait incident on Goonfleet forums 2007-05-25, 16:25 (Orange Species will be able to confirm if asked) So, no, this is not been something we've been sitting on for days or weeks waiting to unleash. So u waited a whooping 14h for the issue to be investigated and resolved before starting to spam the forums demanding answers. And why wait 16 days before announcing the Sharkbait incident. Why announce it at all seeing that somebody in your corp had requested CCP's intervention? You guys knew why he went into your corp all along. Personally I find the same day timing of posting both incidents to be very suspicious. Especially given the fact that you waited over two weeks before expressing your "outrage" at Sharkbait's "invasion" of your Corp. You guys have done more damage to Eve and the community than BoB and its so called cheating have ever done. But then again I'm sure you're feeling very proud of yourselves and are patting yourselves on your backs for a job well done. Hopefully you will all return to that SA sewer you all crawled out of.
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:30:00 - [3525] ahh, but since the players are from multiple countries they are binding in the ones which hold them so, more over in an international court this would be taken into account first and foremost.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:30:00 - [3526] Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Rod Blaine Lots of posts Rod, I am impressed. I left this thread a few hours ago to have some beers with some friends and just came back, and you are still here posting away... Just one small question - already asked it to Avon, but he seems unable to answer: If one alliance has many devs as friends and has direct contact to them, it would seem to most humans (no matter wether they play EVE or not) that it is quite possible this alliance does indeed get preferential treatment. My question is simple. How would you recommend ensuring a level playingfield? Not easy, since friends tend to help each other. Also friends can use private phone, e-mail or MSN to get in contact and talk about new features or confidential information. Anyways you know a solution? Sorry Victor, I wasn't intentionally avoiding you - I had to do some RL family stuff. I have stated repeatedly that I have no objection to anyone chatting to members of CCP on MSN, but I do object to anyone using that communication method in a manner which allows them to bypass the mechanisms that the playerbase in general are expected to use. Lots of people apparently MSN people in CCP (from all parts of the Eve political spectrum), and I just have to trust that they are all doing so in an appropriate manner. Oh, I want to address something that (I think) Plim asked earlier while I was AFK. I don't want anything swept under the carpet. Let me crosspost you something that I wrote on the BoB forums, because I think it accurately portrays my position on this: Originally by: Avon The only thing that annoys me is the threadnaught approach. If something improper happened then the information should have been offered directly to the IA department, and they should have been allowed to handle it. I have no time for cheats, but I have even less time for people who would damage the community, the game, and CCP just for the sake of some political mileage. I hope that helps answer your question. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:31:00 - [3527] Originally by: Liang Nuren Furthermore, they're "friends", and directly admitted to using that access for in-game bug fixes and favors. Erm, no we haven't? We've directly admitted to, wait for it... using MSN to speak with our friends. If you don't think CCP are monitoring those contacts like hawks for acts of impropriety already then no matter of proof or evidence will ever satisfy you. Get over yourselves, whiners. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:31:00 - [3528] Originally by: Rod Blaine MMO EULA's aren't legally binding contracts in many countries, or are untested on that count. They should know that. EULA's are contracts, and contract law is well defined in many countries. You should know that. I wouldn't really want to see CCP sued into the ground, and EvE closed. However, Cheaters Never Prosper. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:32:00 - [3529] Originally by: Liang Nuren My main point is that a certain group of players, with a history of using/abusing the CCP GM/Dev team for "personal gain", have direct, personal access to them. History of using/abusing ? What ? Quote: Furthermore, they're "friends", and directly admitted to using that access for in-game bug fixes and favors. They have ? Quote: My secondary point is that BOB is the one that's doing the financial harm to CCP, via the exact series of statements referenced above. The whole goonie thing would have washed over in a couple of days - and only a few would even have remembered it. The posts you mean weren't brought to IGN, mmorpg, slashdot and an assload of other third party sites. The threadnought was. Quote: If you can't see the conflict of interest with direct, personal, and friendly access to the GM's and Devs, you're blind. Especially when there's a history of corruption and cheating. The history is with CCP, not the players. It's also quite limited. And lastly, a conflict of interest does in itself not have to be reason for escalation. An abuse of it that remains uninvestigated after due process does. There is none. [center] Old blog
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:33:00 - [3530] Originally by: Rod Blaine They're acting like spoilt children jsut because they feel they have the right to because of an incident from the past. Many of them decide to drag us into it based on that same incident. While all this time, CCP deserve alot more trust from its playerbase then goonswarm does. I don't know or care about Goons, but for many players (like myself) most important issue is player <-> dev/GM out-of-game communication. Sharkbait does what he does all the time, and many people assumed he did it because he was doing his job (I watched him fixing CLS-F POS during ASCN/BoB war, and was staring at dev wearing CLS-F tag - was quite amusing :). Some are not convinced, but some will never be. But knowing who the devs are, possibly knowing their character names (not to mention real life names), possibly having them in corp/alliance, and having direct out-of-game means of communication with them - that is an issue. I don't care if it's BoB, MC, RA, Goons, D2 - noone should be able to have such ability. For some (and there is a pattern here, of course), it is normal - for some it is not (pattern here as well, I guess). And for me, IA output on this will determine whether they can be trusted again.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:33:00 - [3531] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Liang Nuren Furthermore, they're "friends", and directly admitted to using that access for in-game bug fixes and favors. Erm, no we haven't? We've directly admitted to, wait for it... using MSN to speak with our friends. If you don't think CCP are monitoring those contacts like hawks for acts of impropriety already then no matter of proof or evidence will ever satisfy you. Get over yourselves, whiners. You did, though. You directly mentioned that you use MSN to get resolution to bug fixes, and your justification was "It doesn't matter who reports it or how, as long as it gets fixed right?" I'd call that a pretty direct admission of guilt. And furthermore, you seriously can't see the conflict of interest there? And you're calling us whiners when you (personally) have a direct history of cheating? And breaking section 7.2 of the EULA? Wow. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:34:00 - [3532] Originally by: Angelyn ahh, but since the players are from multiple countries they are binding in the ones which hold them so, more over in an international court this would be taken into account first and foremost. Yes, US law has them untested in many regards. I assume you referred to US law no ? Seriously, those professors are imaginary aren't they ? [center] Old blog
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:39:00 - [3533] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Angelyn ahh, but since the players are from multiple countries they are binding in the ones which hold them so, more over in an international court this would be taken into account first and foremost. Yes, US law has them untested in many regards. I assume you referred to US law no ? Seriously, those professors are imaginary aren't they ? MSCD student, MSCD professors in charge of the law student that I got the information from. They took the time to actually show me previous juridiction dealing with lawsuits against star wars galaxy, ultima online, and even everquest as reference
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:39:00 - [3534] ITs kinda funny because bob themselves have admitted to using MSN to speak to devs on multiple occasions, but they see no problem in it. Its bob and the devs that are killing this game, not the rest of the community that is upset by this 'gentlemen's' club that has formed between bob and the devs.
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:40:00 - [3535] class action law suit..... should be entertaining.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:40:00 - [3536] Originally by: Khorian Edited by: Khorian on 27/05/2007 21:45:22 Edited by: Khorian on 27/05/2007 21:43:55 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Khorian, this has been a continuing point with you - where is it that CCP recommends emailling the IA? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks for your help. Introducing Arkanon The e-mail is [email protected] "Reporting scams and exploits How can I report scams, cheating and/or exploiting?" https://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=27
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:41:00 - [3537] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Liang Nuren Furthermore, they're "friends", and directly admitted to using that access for in-game bug fixes and favors. Erm, no we haven't? We've directly admitted to, wait for it... using MSN to speak with our friends. If you don't think CCP are monitoring those contacts like hawks for acts of impropriety already then no matter of proof or evidence will ever satisfy you. Get over yourselves, whiners. You did, though. You directly mentioned that you use MSN to get resolution to bug fixes, and your justification was "It doesn't matter who reports it or how, as long as it gets fixed right?" I'd call that a pretty direct admission of guilt. And furthermore, you seriously can't see the conflict of interest there? And you're calling us whiners when you (personally) have a direct history of cheating? And breaking section 7.2 of the EULA? Wow. Liang But didnt you say yourself you have no reason to belive anything BoB says? __________________________________________
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:42:00 - [3538] lol, its funyn bob accuses goonswarm of this 'threadnaught' but yet they muddy the water with ******** comments like the one above....... an admission of guilt is an admission of guilt.!
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:42:00 - [3539] I personally want nothing to do with a lawsuit, I was however curious and showed it to them thinking it was a lark, one of them actually asked if I wanted to pursue a case and was willing to come out of retirement to take it up, told them no thanks
eleuthereus Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:45:00 - [3540] Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 22:46:36 This just in ---- Here's where teh Sharkbait POS fixin scandal will probably stay -- forever. 1. Ark posted allegations of developer misconduct reported by CCP Arkanon \| 2007.05.26 21:35:26 \| NEW "We urge people to wait until the facts are out, rather than taking sensationalist statements at face value. Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened was simply a developer doing his job ingame. He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, which was bugged. 2. Ark posted update on investigation into allegations of misconduct reported by CCP Arkanon \| 2007.05.27 18:03:15 \| NEW "UPDATE: For further clarification, the petition (Petition #631627) which prompted CCP Sharkbait to join the corporation was created on the 6th of May. Note that our policies prohibit us from releasing details of the petition, as well as who filed it. After GMs were unable to fix the issue, an email was sent out asking for developer help. CCP Sharkbait reported the matter as resolved the same day, on the 9th of May." 3. As of this moment, Darkstar 1 CEOs and Goonswarm leadership have no knowledge of any petition sent by a member of Darkstar 1 to CCp for assistance with a POS bug. The only issues at that time that MIGHT have possibly led to a petition of somekind was a failure of certain BPOs to lock down. But this was already stated on page 2 of this thread by Gilbert Drillerson HERE. "On may 9 we didnt have any POS issues, infact im 99% sure we didnt have a pos. However we did have some BPO's that stubbornly didnt want to lock down, so if this is all a misunderstanding, that may have been the issue the Dev was trying to fix. However it doesnt explain the deleted petition and the other failed attempts to get an explanation. I am one of the two actual CEO's of Darkstar 1, so this is not guesswork." This, of course, has nothing to do with a POS. So, we are still left with a mystery. At the time of the infiltration, accordint to Darkstar leader, CEO Pyrex, A bugged POS didn't exist. All was well, and each POS was functioning properly. So, either: 1. CCP is boldly lying. 2. A Goon is lying, and deliberately set up CCP by filing an unecessary petition. 3. A Goon is failing to admit that he/she sent a petition about a POS that he/she thought was bugged, but really wasn't. 4. Many Goons are lying about a POS that actually was bugged, a petition was sent, and poor Sharkbait was just doing his job. Now, all the goons who know about the bugged POS aren't saying anything. 5. A lower-ranking goon is a spy from somewhere, who sent a "Bugged POS" petition into CCP, which in turn would give Sharkbait an excuse to infiltrate Darkstar 1 and .... do something (as yet, also still a mystery.) Pick your option, until CCP releases a copy of the petition that includes the name of sender. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:45:00 - [3541] Originally by: Fluffernator class action law suit..... should be entertaining. I'm not even sure they have a term like that in Iceland.... You know, the island nation where CCP is based.... and which is not a part of the US... All this talk about law-this and law-that is pretty sad really. We're talking about a GAME! My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:45:00 - [3542] Now only the real issues remian. Out of game bat-phones to CCP HQ which now cast a entirely new kind of shadow over just about every battle and cap ship destruction in the past. Ingame reporter getting kicked by the will of BoB's Capfleet. And ofcourse, CCP policeing CCP which puts every released bit of information into doubt as they are part in this Paying Player Base vs. CCP thing. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:46:00 - [3543] Originally by: Victor Vision Rod, I am impressed. I left this thread a few hours ago to have some beers with some friends and just came back, and you are still here posting away... Just one small question - already asked it to Avon, but he seems unable to answer: If one alliance has many devs as friends and has direct contact to them, it would seem to most humans (no matter wether they play EVE or not) that it is quite possible this alliance does indeed get preferential treatment. My question is simple. How would you recommend ensuring a level playingfield? Not easy, since friends tend to help each other. Also friends can use private phone, e-mail or MSN to get in contact and talk about new features or confidential information. Anyways you know a solution? That's the same basic question we had going on in the first incident. The question wether or not CCP employees should be able to play the game. This time it just focuses on wether or not they should even have contact with other players other then through official posts on the forums. I'd say it'd be pretty silly to play Eve without that contact. I mean, there's only so many devs. There's also boatloads of violunteers. Do those too need to stop playing regular accounts and stop having contact with regular players ? Can volunteers be on msn with devs ? Should devs use non-forum methods to ask players for feedback and/or resolve issues ? I think contact by email or msn is fine, as long as the methods are monitored and/or the actions are monitored. The problem of unmonitorable flows like information flows will always remain, even if it is practically restricted to only certain types of information by the monitoring on dev actions. There's simply no way to deal with that information flow without causing more harm then you do good. That's where trust comes in, and relativation of course. [center] Old blog
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:46:00 - [3544] Originally by: Popsikle But didnt you say yourself you have no reason to belive anything BoB says? Well, it comes down to two things: A) BOB has (in the past), been known for cheating. Further admissions of cheating would come as no surprise - thus this is entirely believable. B) BOB is the one doing financial harm to CCP - by directly admitting to cheating (via out of game, privileged, personal, friendly communications with the CCP GM/Dev teams. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Dal Thrax Caldari Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:47:00 - [3545] Originally by: Fluffernator class action law suit..... should be entertaining. Is somebody actually filing? Um I an attorney in RL, I won't say anybody has a slam dunk case again CCP and affiliates but I wouldn't say CCP has zero litigation risk either. If you don't mind me asking is BoB incorporated anywhere. Seems like you guys would be on the defendants list if anybody decided to go to court. Dal Things I learned playing PnP RPGs: 1)Always assume that the players will bring the maximum available firepower against a objective.
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:48:00 - [3546] Linkage This (and earlier) issues seem to be havin an effect...2000 logged players down from last months high, 4000 logged players down from the all time high. NOt good CCP, damage control is needed, please. I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either. there's no such thing as bad press
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:49:00 - [3547] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Fluffernator class action law suit..... should be entertaining. I'm not even sure they have a term like that in Iceland.... You know, the island nation where CCP is based.... and which is not a part of the US... All this talk about law-this and law-that is pretty sad really. We're talking about a GAME! The problem is that CCP is doing business in the United States - where such a term does exist. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:50:00 - [3548] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Victor Vision Rod, I am impressed. I left this thread a few hours ago to have some beers with some friends and just came back, and you are still here posting away... Just one small question - already asked it to Avon, but he seems unable to answer: If one alliance has many devs as friends and has direct contact to them, it would seem to most humans (no matter wether they play EVE or not) that it is quite possible this alliance does indeed get preferential treatment. My question is simple. How would you recommend ensuring a level playingfield? Not easy, since friends tend to help each other. Also friends can use private phone, e-mail or MSN to get in contact and talk about new features or confidential information. Anyways you know a solution? That's the same basic question we had going on in the first incident. The question wether or not CCP employees should be able to play the game. This time it just focuses on wether or not they should even have contact with other players other then through official posts on the forums. I'd say it'd be pretty silly to play Eve without that contact. I mean, there's only so many devs. There's also boatloads of violunteers. Do those too need to stop playing regular accounts and stop having contact with regular players ? Can volunteers be on msn with devs ? Should devs use non-forum methods to ask players for feedback and/or resolve issues ? I think contact by email or msn is fine, as long as the methods are monitored and/or the actions are monitored. The problem of unmonitorable flows like information flows will always remain, even if it is practically restricted to only certain types of information by the monitoring on dev actions. There's simply no way to deal with that information flow without causing more harm then you do good. That's where trust comes in, and relativation of course. I'd agree if it was open to everyone else out there also and not just BoB
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:50:00 - [3549] Edited by: Popsikle on 27/05/2007 22:50:03 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Popsikle But didnt you say yourself you have no reason to belive anything BoB says? Well, it comes down to two things: A) I only belive bob can cheat. I dont belive they can beat me otherwise, if they tell me they are cheating, it must be true. Otherwise they are LIARS and need to be BURNED AT THE STAKE B) Im going to ignore the fact that My alliance made up allegations about Sharkbait, and then posted them everywhere on the internet, caused downtime on Eve-O forums and forced people to work overtime and overnight on a holiday weekend. Then when when they turn up to be nothing will be done to edit the stories posted to slashdot, dig, or anything else and we wont attempt to pay for some of the wages that CCP will have to pay those who worked overtime. Liang Fixed. __________________________________________
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:51:00 - [3550] Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 22:46:36 This just in ---- 6. Arkanon used the POS as an example of what the petition could have been about, while it could actually be about anything that requires corp roles ro re-enact, such as the locking down of blueprints maybe ? In fact, that would be the petition in question most likely, since a similar issue has been handled in the same way in the past by the very same dev as far as I now understand. Of course, this remains to be confirmed, but If I was CEO pyrex I'd take a look at the bpo petition while asking fellow GS memmbers to not pursue the issue anymore for now. [center] Old blog
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:52:00 - [3551] dev contact to players via msn is NOT ok. It is ok for the devs to play the game, but players MUST NOT know who they are. And they must not reaveal anything about the inner workings of the game or offer any assitance other then regular game play. Its inappropraite for BOB to have more direct acsess to the devs then any normal player. Why can't I chit chat with the devs over MSN? you can, I pay the same as you... so why can't I? Why should you have any more voice in any matter concerning the devs then I do? what is fair about that?
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:53:00 - [3552] Originally by: Xandria Foreman Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Victor Vision Rod, I am impressed. I left this thread a few hours ago to have some beers with some friends and just came back, and you are still here posting away... Just one small question - already asked it to Avon, but he seems unable to answer: If one alliance has many devs as friends and has direct contact to them, it would seem to most humans (no matter wether they play EVE or not) that it is quite possible this alliance does indeed get preferential treatment. My question is simple. How would you recommend ensuring a level playingfield? Not easy, since friends tend to help each other. Also friends can use private phone, e-mail or MSN to get in contact and talk about new features or confidential information. Anyways you know a solution? That's the same basic question we had going on in the first incident. The question wether or not CCP employees should be able to play the game. This time it just focuses on wether or not they should even have contact with other players other then through official posts on the forums. I'd say it'd be pretty silly to play Eve without that contact. I mean, there's only so many devs. There's also boatloads of violunteers. Do those too need to stop playing regular accounts and stop having contact with regular players ? Can volunteers be on msn with devs ? Should devs use non-forum methods to ask players for feedback and/or resolve issues ? I think contact by email or msn is fine, as long as the methods are monitored and/or the actions are monitored. The problem of unmonitorable flows like information flows will always remain, even if it is practically restricted to only certain types of information by the monitoring on dev actions. There's simply no way to deal with that information flow without causing more harm then you do good. That's where trust comes in, and relativation of course. I'd agree if it was open to everyone else out there also and not just BoB It is. You can look for volunteers in most RP-oriented alliances out there. I'm not giving names but they're nmot in BoB. In fact, of all the CCP volunteers snd employees I know about none is actually or actively in BoB, nor has been for a good while. [center] Old blog
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:53:00 - [3553] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rod Blaine There is nor ever has been a system cap in place. Nice example of one of you guys shouting something then others repeating it untill it becomes 'truth'. Except that there were people that couldn't jump in due to a system cap limit. Liang Read what Rod just wrote :) I have never seen an engagement in EvE that got even close to 700 in local. Best i saw was 550 in F-TEIT. If there really is a cap, its so high the hardware crumbles before its reached. AFAIK, from a dev blog somewhere, it's a cluster issue. They can't assign multiple cpu's to a grid (or was it system?). When that single blade's load limit is reached, no more soup for you. No ship cap, but a resource cap instead. Factor in drones, cans and the like, and no wonder it a lagfest half the time. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:53:00 - [3554] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 22:53:36 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Liang Nuren Furthermore, they're "friends", and directly admitted to using that access for in-game bug fixes and favors. Erm, no we haven't? We've directly admitted to, wait for it... using MSN to speak with our friends. If you don't think CCP are monitoring those contacts like hawks for acts of impropriety already then no matter of proof or evidence will ever satisfy you. Get over yourselves, whiners. You're amazing. Every time you post about this subject in here you have even odds (at best) of 'winning' over other Eve O forum-goers and really outstanding odds of presenting yourselves as guilty to outside parties. Why are you here?? "Using MSN to speak to our friends" is inappropriate and unprofessional behavior in any business like this anywhere else in the world- even if you don't get direct benefits, admitting to having it creates an equal conflict of interest and appearance of impropriety. Even if you thought it was ok, how could you possibly think it was a good idea to post on here? You are mindboggling. No, I don't want BoB to shut up. I just think you personally might be wise to come up with a new argument to temper what you're saying here- it isn't just goons who see what you're saying as evidence of maybe the worst offense in this thread.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:54:00 - [3555] Originally by: Popsikle A) I only belive bob can cheat. I dont belive they can beat me otherwise, if they tell me they are cheating, it must be true. Otherwise they are LIARS and need to be BURNED AT THE STAKE B) Im going to ignore the fact that My alliance made up allegations about Sharkbait, and then posted them everywhere on the internet, caused downtime on Eve-O forums and forced people to work overtime and overnight on a holiday weekend. Then when when they turn up to be nothing will be done to edit the stories posted to slashdot, dig, or anything else and we wont attempt to pay for some of the wages that CCP will have to pay those who worked overtime. Liang Fixed. Sure, except I am not in an alliance - and this definitely is my main. In fact, this is my main for THREE accounts - or roughly $45 USD/month. How about checking out how many forum posts I've made before being stupid and accusing me of being a Goonie? Now, back to my original point - who the bejeezus cares about the bull**** that the Goonies originally posted. That crap would have washed over in a few days - you and I both know it. What really matters at this point is that there is a line of direct personal contact between certain group(s) of players and the CCP GM/Dev team ("and higher", according to Dianabolic). Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Bi Tor	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:55:00 - [3556] I don't want any part of a class action, I want a game that I can play and have a reasonable change of winning. If I cannot win because others are getting extra help for the game designers then I do not have any reasonable hope of achieving my objectives. Unfortunately this is an unacceptable and pathetic situation. CCP needs to correct the imbalance at any cost using every means necessary. To do otherwise is to admit that their interference inside the politics and play of the Alliance will by the norm for the life of the game. At that point winning the game no long is a matter of how you play, it is a matter of who you know. I guess I'm the stupid one. I chose not to get involved with the debugging and development issues when I joined this game, I just wanted to play a game not manage it. That was stupid of me, after 3 years of not cultivating contacts with the Dev team it appears that I am now incapable of competing against those that have. Bite Me! Bi`Tor
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:55:00 - [3557] Ok, having access to VOLUNTEERS is much difference then being able ot get a volunteer fired in literally seconds via msn....... I want that kind of poewr if you have it.
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:56:00 - [3558] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 22:46:36 This just in ---- 6. Arkanon used the POS as an example of what the petition could have been about, while it could actually be about anything that requires corp roles ro re-enact, such as the locking down of blueprints maybe ? In fact, that would be the petition in question most likely, since a similar issue has been handled in the same way in the past by the very same dev as far as I now understand. Of course, this remains to be confirmed, but If I was CEO pyrex I'd take a look at the bpo petition while asking fellow GS memmbers to not pursue the issue anymore for now. Well then, IF Sharkbait had informed the CEO via Eve-mail that he was joining to do whatever..as appears to be policy, or if someone had given DS1 this info in response to their petition, then the appearance of impropriety would have been avoided...and after the T20 incident, even the appearance of impropriety should be something CCP desperately tries to avoid. Of course, that still leaves the other topics raised. I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either. there's no such thing as bad press
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:58:00 - [3559] Originally by: Flaming Lemming Linkage This (and earlier) issues seem to be havin an effect...2000 logged players down from last months high, 4000 logged players down from the all time high. NOt good CCP, damage control is needed, please. sorry bud its a major holiday weekend here with a lot of people taking the time to be with thier familys. its one of thoes you dont dair miss.but then you knew that
Ragnar Black Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:58:00 - [3560] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Liang Nuren Furthermore, they're "friends", and directly admitted to using that access for in-game bug fixes and favors. Erm, no we haven't? We've directly admitted to, wait for it... using MSN to speak with our friends. If you don't think CCP are monitoring those contacts like hawks for acts of impropriety already then no matter of proof or evidence will ever satisfy you. Get over yourselves, whiners. lol CCP has nothing to do with MSN so why would they be monitoring what is said there?
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:58:00 - [3561] Originally by: Fluffernator dev contact to players via msn is NOT ok. It is ok for the devs to play the game, but players MUST NOT know who they are. And they must not reaveal anything about the inner workings of the game or offer any assitance other then regular game play. Its inappropraite for BOB to have more direct acsess to the devs then any normal player. Why can't I chit chat with the devs over MSN? you can, I pay the same as you... so why can't I? Why should you have any more voice in any matter concerning the devs then I do? what is fair about that? Um, How does having a dev on your buddy list mean you know who they are ingame? You have to remember most of the people who work on eve now a days came form the community, and back when eve started most of the corps were IRL friends or people who had been gaming for years as a group. So when I get a job working at CCP and I move away form all my friends state side, and my family (who plays eve too) im supposed to not talk to anyone of my friends ever again? Im not supposed to talk to my family ever again because they play eve? What the hell kind of draconian culture do you come from where your not allowed to talk to your friends and family if you take a job somewhere? On top of that what do most adults talk about with each other? Oh yea work. We talk about work with each other because its what we do with most of our lifes so most of the interesting stuff that happens in our boring life as a human happens while we are working. I will say however, using MSN to possibly (no proof whatsoever from anyone has been shown yet) to accelerate a petition is over the line, but anything other sort of communication betweens friends about anything should always be allowed. __________________________________________
Dal Thrax Caldari Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:58:00 - [3562] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Fluffernator class action law suit..... should be entertaining. I'm not even sure they have a term like that in Iceland.... You know, the island nation where CCP is based.... and which is not a part of the US... All this talk about law-this and law-that is pretty sad really. We're talking about a GAME! If Iceland is a member of various treaties then an US judgment might be enforcable in Iceland (I do believe that in general US judgments are enforcable in the EU and vice versa). I should add that getting a judgment enforced internatinally is a non-trivial matter. I suppose that they could try to execute against CCP's US based assets. This is difficult as CCP North America is a separate company, chartered in Deleware, from CCP (Iceland). Again it could be possible to seek enforcement but it would be a non-trivial legal matter. The easist thing would probably be to try to garnish CCP's US based revenue through the variou US credit card companies that process payment. Again this is a non trivial issue. Dal Things I learned playing PnP RPGs: 1)Always assume that the players will bring the maximum available firepower against a objective.
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:00:00 - [3563] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Fluffernator class action law suit..... should be entertaining. I'm not even sure they have a term like that in Iceland.... You know, the island nation where CCP is based.... and which is not a part of the US... All this talk about law-this and law-that is pretty sad really. We're talking about a GAME! The problem is that CCP is doing business in the United States - where such a term does exist. Liang This is from the EULA you've signed... Quote: GOVERNING LAW AND EXCLUSIVE FORUM The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods. The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland, (HTra=sd=mur Reykjavfkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland. IANAL, but section 13 and forward in the EULA seem to have pretty well limited CCP's legal responsibility to 0. But all this talk of law-this, law-that is stupid. This is a GAME!!! My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Stoned Celt Bloodnok Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:00:00 - [3564] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Popsikle But didnt you say yourself you have no reason to belive anything BoB says? Well, it comes down to two things: A) BOB has (in the past), been known for cheating. Further admissions of cheating would come as no surprise - thus this is entirely believable. B) BOB is the one doing financial harm to CCP - by directly admitting to cheating (via out of game, privileged, personal, friendly communications with the CCP GM/Dev teams. Liang You're really not well are you... Bob didn't cheat (in the past) the GM did... Where do bob admit to cheating when they chat to their friends on MSN??? Do yourself a favour and cancel your three accounts.. you need a rest.
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:00:00 - [3565] Originally by: raven415 Originally by: Flaming Lemming Linkage This (and earlier) issues seem to be havin an effect...2000 logged players down from last months high, 4000 logged players down from the all time high. NOt good CCP, damage control is needed, please. sorry bud its a major holiday weekend here with a lot of people taking the time to be with thier familys. its one of thoes you dont dair miss.but then you knew that Sorry It's not a holiday here, so I didn't realize. I'll take the hit for this one. I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either. there's no such thing as bad press
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:01:00 - [3566] whats stopping you from talking to your friends about real life...... just dont discuss eve, and sure as hell dont respond to them asking you for bug fixes etc, its a conflict of interest. Doesnt mean you can't be friends, but they can't ask you for help on eve since you have dev powers, and that seems to be whats going on.
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:01:00 - [3567] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Liang Nuren Furthermore, they're "friends", and directly admitted to using that access for in-game bug fixes and favors. Erm, no we haven't? We've directly admitted to, wait for it... using MSN to speak with our friends. If you don't think CCP are monitoring those contacts like hawks for acts of impropriety already then no matter of proof or evidence will ever satisfy you. Get over yourselves, whiners. You'll not be able to talk you out of this one. Either the corruption will be dealt with, or CCP will pay for it dearly with the thousands of accounts that'll be banned/cancelled. You've brought this upon yourselves, now live with the consequences. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:03:00 - [3568] Originally by: Ragnar Black Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Liang Nuren Furthermore, they're "friends", and directly admitted to using that access for in-game bug fixes and favors. Erm, no we haven't? We've directly admitted to, wait for it... using MSN to speak with our friends. If you don't think CCP are monitoring those contacts like hawks for acts of impropriety already then no matter of proof or evidence will ever satisfy you. Get over yourselves, whiners. lol CCP has nothing to do with MSN so why would they be monitoring what is said there? Ive worked sysadmin/network admin at alot of different places. From uni's to retail computer shops, to internet companies, ect. At every single job we monitored and logged every Instant message protocol that wasnt encrypted. This includes student communication between students, between familty, staf/faculty communications in and outside our network, everything. We did it just in case we needed it, and because being able to read other peoples conversations is fun. The amount of cyber "partners" a 22 year old college girl can have at the same time is pretty amazing. We are talking upwards of 15 different people all "cybering" at the same time with one girl. The girl was ugly too, It was kinda sad actually. __________________________________________
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:03:00 - [3569] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Rod Blaine Lots of posts Rod, I am impressed. I left this thread a few hours ago to have some beers with some friends and just came back, and you are still here posting away... Just one small question - already asked it to Avon, but he seems unable to answer: If one alliance has many devs as friends and has direct contact to them, it would seem to most humans (no matter wether they play EVE or not) that it is quite possible this alliance does indeed get preferential treatment. My question is simple. How would you recommend ensuring a level playingfield? Not easy, since friends tend to help each other. Also friends can use private phone, e-mail or MSN to get in contact and talk about new features or confidential information. Anyways you know a solution? Sorry Victor, I wasn't intentionally avoiding you - I had to do some RL family stuff. I have stated repeatedly that I have no objection to anyone chatting to members of CCP on MSN, but I do object to anyone using that communication method in a manner which allows them to bypass the mechanisms that the playerbase in general are expected to use. Lots of people apparently MSN people in CCP (from all parts of the Eve political spectrum), and I just have to trust that they are all doing so in an appropriate manner. No problem Avon, RL is more important than this thread. Hope it was at least something pleasant in RL, as this thread is not realy. Back on topic... The highlighted sentence you wrote is exactly what I think as well. The problem is trust is damaged severly atm, and has been since the t20 issue. If turst does not work, things become complicated. So how to ensure no cheating happens via dev <> player friendships? I have no idea. How can CCP and BoB win back the trust required to make the above question irrelevant? I do not know a solution, either. I do know however that if a solution was found to any one of the two questions above, we could get back to having fun in game. On the other hand, if no solution is found, we have a longterm problem on our hands. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Locar Quilus	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:03:00 - [3570] Edited by: Locar Quilus on 27/05/2007 23:02:50 There is an even greater threat to EVE and all its players... This is not a joke I hope you all take this warning super cereal....
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:03:00 - [3571] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Liang Nuren Furthermore, they're "friends", and directly admitted to using that access for in-game bug fixes and favors. Erm, no we haven't? We've directly admitted to, wait for it... using MSN to speak with our friends. If you don't think CCP are monitoring those contacts like hawks for acts of impropriety already then no matter of proof or evidence will ever satisfy you. Get over yourselves, whiners. Oh, so not only do you have direct out-of-game contact with CCP employees, but you also know their internal practices? Would you mind telling us how EXACTLY are they "monitoring" MSN, please? Have you ever used out-of-game communication (MSN, for example) to talk to CCP employees about EVE related issues?
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:03:00 - [3572] sure CCP can try to put into their EULA that thier company is only responsiple for ice land legal polices etc, but they are doing business in the USA, and hold assets in the USA. Its not that simple for them to cough out of american policy when they are doing business here.
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:04:00 - [3573] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Fluffernator dev contact to players via msn is NOT ok. It is ok for the devs to play the game, but players MUST NOT know who they are. And they must not reaveal anything about the inner workings of the game or offer any assitance other then regular game play. Its inappropraite for BOB to have more direct acsess to the devs then any normal player. Why can't I chit chat with the devs over MSN? you can, I pay the same as you... so why can't I? Why should you have any more voice in any matter concerning the devs then I do? what is fair about that? Um, How does having a dev on your buddy list mean you know who they are ingame? You have to remember most of the people who work on eve now a days came form the community, and back when eve started most of the corps were IRL friends or people who had been gaming for years as a group. So when I get a job working at CCP and I move away form all my friends state side, and my family (who plays eve too) im supposed to not talk to anyone of my friends ever again? Im not supposed to talk to my family ever again because they play eve? What the hell kind of draconian culture do you come from where your not allowed to talk to your friends and family if you take a job somewhere? On top of that what do most adults talk about with each other? Oh yea work. We talk about work with each other because its what we do with most of our lifes so most of the interesting stuff that happens in our boring life as a human happens while we are working. I will say however, using MSN to possibly (no proof whatsoever from anyone has been shown yet) to accelerate a petition is over the line, but anything other sort of communication betweens friends about anything should always be allowed. i think that it was to report misconduct by a reporter. isnt that whats said ? now as a volenteer he wouldnt have been paid and having not followed guidelines thats terms for dismissal. so hes ****ed now seeking revenge supprise supprise eh. we really have no idea how many other complants of misconduct had been filed against the "reporter"
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:05:00 - [3574] Originally by: Popsikle On top of that what do most adults talk about with each other? Oh yea work. We talk about work with each other because its what we do with most of our lifes so most of the interesting stuff that happens in our boring life as a human happens while we are working. I am a software developer, and there are strict rules about who I am and am not allowed to talk to about my work. Imagine that. Originally by: Popsikle I will say however, using MSN to possibly (no proof whatsoever from anyone has been shown yet) to accelerate a petition is over the line, but anything other sort of communication betweens friends about anything should always be allowed. Except that Dianabolic directly admitted to bypassing the petition system via MSN somewhere around pages 12-17. Furthermore, I am OK with them talking about "things", but the moment that they start talking about "work", they are way out of line. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Ragnar Black Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:05:00 - [3575] Originally by: Uruko pls goons. leave the game allready. So your happy with players having dev friends on there msn? Where anything can be said to each other. I'm not. I don't see this happening in games like wow or EQ.
LoveLoveHate	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:05:00 - [3576] You can be friends with CCP all you want. However, that means I can assume they give you special favors like ISK or ships or intell. Fair trade?
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:06:00 - [3577] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Victor Vision Rod, I am impressed. I left this thread a few hours ago to have some beers with some friends and just came back, and you are still here posting away... Just one small question - already asked it to Avon, but he seems unable to answer: If one alliance has many devs as friends and has direct contact to them, it would seem to most humans (no matter wether they play EVE or not) that it is quite possible this alliance does indeed get preferential treatment. My question is simple. How would you recommend ensuring a level playingfield? Not easy, since friends tend to help each other. Also friends can use private phone, e-mail or MSN to get in contact and talk about new features or confidential information. Anyways you know a solution? That's the same basic question we had going on in the first incident. The question wether or not CCP employees should be able to play the game. This time it just focuses on wether or not they should even have contact with other players other then through official posts on the forums. I'd say it'd be pretty silly to play Eve without that contact. I mean, there's only so many devs. There's also boatloads of violunteers. Do those too need to stop playing regular accounts and stop having contact with regular players ? Can volunteers be on msn with devs ? Should devs use non-forum methods to ask players for feedback and/or resolve issues ? I think contact by email or msn is fine, as long as the methods are monitored and/or the actions are monitored. The problem of unmonitorable flows like information flows will always remain, even if it is practically restricted to only certain types of information by the monitoring on dev actions. There's simply no way to deal with that information flow without causing more harm then you do good. That's where trust comes in, and relativation of course. Yea, agreed on most accounts. The missing trust is the problem. Just wrote that in my answer to Avon as well. Somehow the trust has to be restored, that would do the game good. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:06:00 - [3578] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Fluffernator class action law suit..... should be entertaining. I'm not even sure they have a term like that in Iceland.... You know, the island nation where CCP is based.... and which is not a part of the US... All this talk about law-this and law-that is pretty sad really. We're talking about a GAME! The problem is that CCP is doing business in the United States - where such a term does exist. Liang This is from the EULA you've signed... Quote: GOVERNING LAW AND EXCLUSIVE FORUM The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods. The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland, (HTra=sd=mur Reykjavfkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland. IANAL, but section 13 and forward in the EULA seem to have pretty well limited CCP's legal responsibility to 0. But all this talk of law-this, law-that is stupid. This is a GAME!!! I PAY to PLAY this GAME, so please spawn me BPO's, give me direct access to CCP for easy petition! I want all the percs that might come out of direct contact with the developers! I pay as much as Diana and the other to play this game so please, give me the same product. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
NereSky Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:07:00 - [3579] BOB have only got themselves to blame - after their arrogant stance over their last cheating escape and their continued use of borderline exploiting and now this All BOB can do is squirm.misdirect and spin , all this will be hidden away under CCP's magic cover all rug and in a few months the arrogance and complaceny of BOB will set in and another piece of their deep rooted involvement with CCP will be highlighted 'again' atm BOB seem to be clinging on to their seats of power , im just wondering how long they can keep it?
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:07:00 - [3580] Originally by: Tzrailasa This is from the EULA you've signed... Quote: GOVERNING LAW AND EXCLUSIVE FORUM The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods. The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland, (HTra=sd=mur Reykjavfkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland. IANAL, but section 13 and forward in the EULA seem to have pretty well limited CCP's legal responsibility to 0. But all this talk of law-this, law-that is stupid. This is a GAME!!! Originally by: EvE EULA If any part of the EULA is held invalid or unenforceable, that portion shall be construed in a manner consistent with applicable law to reflect, as nearly as possible, the original intentions of the parties expressed in the EULA, and the remaining portions shall remain in full force and effect. This is also from the EULA. The EULA is still subject to laws and previous judgments regarding said laws. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:09:00 - [3581] I like how they think that the devs being their 'friends' makes it ok...... LMAO bob is just unbelieveable. hell so are the devs! they are kiling this game, but maybe thats their purpose. CCP has alreayd made millions upon millions of it, so why does it need to continue?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:13:00 - [3582] Originally by: Fluffernator I like how they think that the devs being their 'friends' makes it ok...... LMAO bob is just unbelieveable. hell so are the devs! they are kiling this game, but maybe thats their purpose. CCP has alreayd made millions upon millions of it, so why does it need to continue? So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? You think it would just be BoB? Are you upset that BoB communicate with Devs, or that anyone does? What next, ban the fanfest - or at least not let any of the players talk to anyone in CCP about Eve while they are there? /me shrugs. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:17:00 - [3583] Originally by: Liang Nuren I am a software developer, and there are strict rules about who I am and am not allowed to talk to about my work. Imagine that. I'm a software developer too.... My boss encourages me to talk to our customers, and develop good relationships with them. It helps our business because we get more information about what our customers need and wants. If a customer points out an error in our software or how we handle it, even though it not be through regular channels, we're happy about it, because it helps us make our product better, for the good of all our customers. If a customer asks me about details for another customer or asks me to harm another customer, I would refuse, as I'm sure 99.9% of all people would (CCP included)... See what I'm getting at? Having good relations and good information exchange with your customers is a GOOD thing, unless abused (and reporting on the inappropriate actions of an ISD member doesn't seem like abuse to me)! My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Kander	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:17:00 - [3584] This is rediculous on so many levels. I personally have no vested interest in either side. There are qualities that i like and dislike on both sides of the fence (Alliance and Coalition). The fact of the matter is that every organization has its bad apples. Including CCP. What matters is how those bad apples are handled. The greater majority of this game just wants to play the best game on the internet and CCP has done a marvelous job in providing that. As the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely and this goes for everyone involved here especially for CCP. CCP's handling of matters has been rather unfortunate. With that being said I prefer to give CCP the benifit of the doubt. I don't think there is a conspiracy to favor of any in game group of players. Are there still a few elements who cross the lines of professionalism, most likely. This game above all others makes that line extreemly blury. As a result there needs to be Transparency. CCP will obviously not satisfy every member of the game but there should be no room for doubt in the handling these manners. I'm no expert on the mechanics of "internal affairs" so I will leave it at that; however, when it is found that a CCP Employee has crossed the line it needs to be brought to light immediately, not hidden for months on end. We as players may not agree with how you handle diciplinary actions but we have a right to know immediately when they happen. Coverups and censorship have been proven over and over throughout history not to solve any problems, they only compound them and make future ones worse as we can clearly see now. If you were open and upfront about everything in the past, most of these current allegations would be a non issue to the majority of this game and could have been handled simply. Now a bit off topic. Every alliance has members whose sole mission is to grief other players. Perhaps childhood issues and the internet is the only place they can vent, who knows. Bob you have em, Goons you have em, Every alliance out there you has them. To every alliance out there, its the alliance's members responsibility to keep these players in check. Abusing questionable game mechanics? Tell em to knock it off. Especially the largest and most powerful alliances out there. You guys are under a spot light. Just because it's allowed or hasn't been discovered yet doesn't mean it's ok. POS Bowling comes to mind and i'm not picking on BoB here because I know if the goons had a titan they would be doing it as well. It's the playerbase in these alliances who hold the responsibility. You have to hold your leadership to account. Comming on to these forums and "threadnaughting them" or talking smack of "tinfoil hattery" or recounting past "exploits" of the opposing side (i.e. no one is sinfree) only drags this game down. Every alliance has elements who will cheat if given the opportunity. Every alliance holds a majority of players who just want to play the game as it's meant to be. It's up to that majority to hold the few accountable. To many paragraphs, to many characters, I'll probably post again in another 3-4 years. - This is my main
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:18:00 - [3585] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 27/05/2007 23:16:52 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Fluffernator I like how they think that the devs being their 'friends' makes it ok...... LMAO bob is just unbelieveable. hell so are the devs! they are kiling this game, but maybe thats their purpose. CCP has alreayd made millions upon millions of it, so why does it need to continue? So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? You think it would just be BoB? Are you upset that BoB communicate with Devs, or that anyone does? What next, ban the fanfest - or at least not let any of the players talk to anyone in CCP about Eve while they are there? /me shrugs. I think the entire community is upset that BOB uses MSN to bypass the petition system for reporting bugs (and more). Furthermore, they (likely) get "more" and "better" information via MSN if they talk about EvE with the developers. We're much more upset that a group of players (BOB, and more) are using MSN to speak to the GM's/Devs about EvE. It's a conflict of interest for the CCP Employee, and cheating for the player. Liang Edit: Grammar My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:19:00 - [3586] no avon, there is no problem haveing 'dev' friends... the problem stems from talking eve with you dev friends and using you dev friends to bypass petitions, and bugs, and have more input on game development. That is the problem, stop construing it to just be casual talk with you friends because its not. Call yoru dev friend on the phone and talk to him about his daughter, that is fine, not eve.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:20:00 - [3587] Originally by: Tzrailasa I'm a software developer too.... My boss encourages me to talk to our customers, and develop good relationships with them. It helps our business because we get more information about what our customers need and wants. If a customer points out an error in our software or how we handle it, even though it not be through regular channels, we're happy about it, because it helps us make our product better, for the good of all our customers. If a customer asks me about details for another customer or asks me to harm another customer, I would refuse, as I'm sure 99.9% of all people would (CCP included)... See what I'm getting at? Having good relations and good information exchange with your customers is a GOOD thing, unless abused (and reporting on the inappropriate actions of an ISD member doesn't seem like abuse to me)! Well, this is excellent news. I am then expecting CCP to provide me with MSN (or whatever) details for developers, so that they can chat with their customer, and vice versa. Thank you for clearing this up.
Kozak Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:20:00 - [3588] I like how people keep saying "It's just a game". We all know this. But if there is cheating, it should not be tolerated, just like in any other sport, which are all still games. It's not tolerated there, nor should it be anywhere else.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:21:00 - [3589] Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Victor Vision Rod, I am impressed. I left this thread a few hours ago to have some beers with some friends and just came back, and you are still here posting away... Just one small question - already asked it to Avon, but he seems unable to answer: If one alliance has many devs as friends and has direct contact to them, it would seem to most humans (no matter wether they play EVE or not) that it is quite possible this alliance does indeed get preferential treatment. My question is simple. How would you recommend ensuring a level playingfield? Not easy, since friends tend to help each other. Also friends can use private phone, e-mail or MSN to get in contact and talk about new features or confidential information. Anyways you know a solution? That's the same basic question we had going on in the first incident. The question wether or not CCP employees should be able to play the game. This time it just focuses on wether or not they should even have contact with other players other then through official posts on the forums. I'd say it'd be pretty silly to play Eve without that contact. I mean, there's only so many devs. There's also boatloads of violunteers. Do those too need to stop playing regular accounts and stop having contact with regular players ? Can volunteers be on msn with devs ? Should devs use non-forum methods to ask players for feedback and/or resolve issues ? I think contact by email or msn is fine, as long as the methods are monitored and/or the actions are monitored. The problem of unmonitorable flows like information flows will always remain, even if it is practically restricted to only certain types of information by the monitoring on dev actions. There's simply no way to deal with that information flow without causing more harm then you do good. That's where trust comes in, and relativation of course. Yea, agreed on most accounts. The missing trust is the problem. Just wrote that in my answer to Avon as well. Somehow the trust has to be restored, that would do the game good. Well on one hand more openness would help. Giving exhaustive explanatino about the current issues could help, especially if thngs turn out to be nothing damaging for CCP. However, in doing that they'd be validating the methods used to pressure them. And that is most certianly something they should try to avoid at great cost. This whole deal has been founded on very suprious grounds, and resulted in some pretty damn excessive actions by certain players and player groups. If CCP where to give these people what they want, without at the same time making clear that this type of action is absolutely intolerable then they'll have a hard time in the future, whenever the next thing happens that people can read wrong and account to outlandish conspiracy theories. (not saying all issues at hand are, but at least two don't merit this reaction based on the available evidence). [center] Old blog
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:21:00 - [3590] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Liang Nuren I am a software developer, and there are strict rules about who I am and am not allowed to talk to about my work. Imagine that. I'm a software developer too.... My boss encourages me to talk to our customers, and develop good relationships with them. It helps our business because we get more information about what our customers need and wants. If a customer points out an error in our software or how we handle it, even though it not be through regular channels, we're happy about it, because it helps us make our product better, for the good of all our customers. If a customer asks me about details for another customer or asks me to harm another customer, I would refuse, as I'm sure 99.9% of all people would (CCP included)... See what I'm getting at? Having good relations and good information exchange with your customers is a GOOD thing, unless abused (and reporting on the inappropriate actions of an ISD member doesn't seem like abuse to me)! Does your boss encourage you to tell your customers exactly how things work? Or does your boss encourage you to bypass the normal "chain of command" for the customers? How about bypassing the paper trail? So you're telling me that if you completely rearranged some stuff in your software, and then deployed it - all without a paper trail - that this would be OK with your boss? WTF? Where do you work, I wanna work there. I have "tasks", and "items", and "meetings", and a paper trail. Wow. Oh, and reporting inappropriate actions of an ISD reporter outside of normal game mechanics and rules is, by definition, cheating. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:22:00 - [3591] there is a good reason why other games will immdediatly BAN players from all servers if caught using a hack or exploit....... why should it be any different here.
Mileionaha GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:22:00 - [3592] Edited by: Mileionaha on 27/05/2007 23:22:08 I don't browse these forums much at all, but with the allegations I also read all these posts about how there won't be cover ups or 'spin', but then lo and behold, people post screenshots of the forums where people are talking about corruption, but if you go to that forum an hour or two later, all the posts are gone. No spin? No cover ups? BS. Here, example: vs http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=526921
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:22:00 - [3593] Originally by: Trishan Originally by: Popsikle Ive worked sysadmin/network admin at alot of different places. From uni's to retail computer shops, to internet companies, ect. At every single job we monitored and logged every Instant message protocol that wasnt encrypted. This includes student communication between students, between familty, staf/faculty communications in and outside our network, everything. We did it just in case we needed it, and because being able to read other peoples conversations is fun. The amount of cyber "partners" a 22 year old college girl can have at the same time is pretty amazing. We are talking upwards of 15 different people all "cybering" at the same time with one girl. The girl was ugly too, It was kinda sad actually. Are you aware reading other people's conversations without justification is both unethical and unprofessional? Point being? The fact that sysadmins read your email, and netadmins read your aim logs is included in most companies IUP (internet usage policy). Most of the times we sat reading it was for a specific reason but something else caught our attention. Human nature I guess. But then again, most of the coalition doesnt complain when Kug reads other peoples forums, or hacks into them, or when someone that was in ISD betrays the agreements that had to abide by. Most of that stuff is unethical and unprofessional too. __________________________________________
Dal Thrax Caldari Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:23:00 - [3594] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Fluffernator class action law suit..... should be entertaining. I'm not even sure they have a term like that in Iceland.... You know, the island nation where CCP is based.... and which is not a part of the US... All this talk about law-this and law-that is pretty sad really. We're talking about a GAME! The problem is that CCP is doing business in the United States - where such a term does exist. Liang This is from the EULA you've signed... Quote: GOVERNING LAW AND EXCLUSIVE FORUM The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods. The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland, (HTra=sd=mur Reykjavfkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland. IANAL, but section 13 and forward in the EULA seem to have pretty well limited CCP's legal responsibility to 0. But all this talk of law-this, law-that is stupid. This is a GAME!!! Hum. Not all international forum selection clauses are applicable in a US court. I'd say that this gives CCP a fair chance of getting any mess bumped to Iceland but I can certainly think of grouds to challenge. Start off by going nuclear, allege fraud, breach of contract and civil RICO (Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organizations), sue both CCP and BoB. If you get lucky BoB will have a CCP employee as a member. Since CCP encourages employees to play CCP would likely be liable under Respondeat Superior for any RICO violations by BoB. Since TS spying violates just a whole host of laws and BoB has admitted to it in the past not a real problem. CCP could probably get a contract matter moved. I'm not sure RICO would be though. We're talking about litterly tens of thousands of dollars in legal research to work this out though. Dal Things I learned playing PnP RPGs: 1)Always assume that the players will bring the maximum available firepower against a objective.
Atreus Minmatarius Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:25:00 - [3595] Edited by: Atreus Minmatarius on 27/05/2007 23:25:31 Originally by: Avon So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? there is absolutely no reason why any player should comunicate with Devs through MSN (on somethng concerning game bussines). There are enough "official" communication established. It can be conflict of interest becouse we have no idea how close you are to them (or anyone else this is not just for bob) there has to be "paper trace" of the comunication between devs and players. If problem araises CCP can go in there archives and establish that there was nothing wrong. It is way easyer. Plus you already have 1 precident so it is not like it has never happened before. have a problem = file a petition in game or out through website have a sugestion = forums found a bug = petition what i say is my own opinion and does not represent any entity other than myself
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:25:00 - [3596] Originally by: Fluffernator there is a good reason why other games will immdediatly BAN players from all servers if caught using a hack or exploit....... why should it be any different here. It shouldn't. A whole section of the community modified the game client in order to obtain an unintended in-game advantage, but none of them were banned. I guess they had dev friends protecting them .. right? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:25:00 - [3597] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Fluffernator I like how they think that the devs being their 'friends' makes it ok...... LMAO bob is just unbelieveable. hell so are the devs! they are kiling this game, but maybe thats their purpose. CCP has alreayd made millions upon millions of it, so why does it need to continue? So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? You think it would just be BoB? Are you upset that BoB communicate with Devs, or that anyone does? What next, ban the fanfest - or at least not let any of the players talk to anyone in CCP about Eve while they are there? /me shrugs. Are you for real? Ban people from the fanfest? There is a lil difference between meeting your developers and have a laugh at a fanfest and having a lil-red phoneline directly to them where you can, in private plot and get just about any information there is. And if anyone still has that kind of line, I hope they are getting rid off it now, or else cut the cost to play the game for everybody who doesnt have that line. Like a Free to play-account without MSN and a PAy to play account for those who want a private moment with the devs. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
mr bighelmet EnTech Pax Familia	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:26:00 - [3598] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 27/05/2007 23:16:52 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Fluffernator I like how they think that the devs being their 'friends' makes it ok...... LMAO bob is just unbelieveable. hell so are the devs! they are kiling this game, but maybe thats their purpose. CCP has alreayd made millions upon millions of it, so why does it need to continue? So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? You think it would just be BoB? Are you upset that BoB communicate with Devs, or that anyone does? What next, ban the fanfest - or at least not let any of the players talk to anyone in CCP about Eve while they are there? /me shrugs. I think the entire community is upset that BOB uses MSN to bypass the petition system for reporting bugs (and more). Furthermore, they (likely) get "more" and "better" information via MSN if they talk about EvE with the developers. We're much more upset that a group of players (BOB, and more) are using MSN to speak to the GM's/Devs about EvE. It's a conflict of interest for the CCP Employee, and cheating for the player. Liang Edit: Grammar you think the entire community is upset? well stop thinking u just failed. im actualy quite **ed off at goons, for the lies they been feeding us, they know sharkbait was doing his job anwering there petition but they twisted it so they could pretend he was cheeting, let put it this way if i'm sharkbait that would have been the last goon petition i would have answered. They didn't try to check it up, i'm mean they could have ask in corp/alliance "did anyone had a petition about regarding the pos?", no what they tried to do is go for the kill, lets make a drama bomb that will hurt BoB, lets publish this right before the weekend so that CCP will not be able to react well and we will gain a few more hours of fame. Maybe u should wake up and start smelling the coffee cuse the ** u smell so far is not doing ur brain any good. If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:26:00 - [3599] Originally by: NereSky BOB have only got themselves to blame - after their arrogant stance over their last cheating escape and their continued use of borderline exploiting and now this All BOB can do is squirm.misdirect and spin , all this will be hidden away under CCP's magic cover all rug and in a few months the arrogance and complaceny of BOB will set in and another piece of their deep rooted involvement with CCP will be highlighted 'again' atm BOB seem to be clinging on to their seats of power , im just wondering how long they can keep it? The scary thing is you actually believe alot of the stuff you say. It's pretty scary stuff to look at from this side of the fence. I've seen alot of funny goings on in this game, from alot of different alliances and corps. Even your own alliance, then G, put a pos into 'godmode during the battle in azn, or so we were told by cyvok at the time. The only thing intelligable to do is let the do there investigation and give us the findings. The first part has already come out and as expected tbh, sharkbait was exonerated. This current witch hunt has degraded into a farce imo. Even if all finding show that we were innocent / cleared of all naughtiness, the goons and co have already done the damage by mass posting everywhere that it is confirmed fact that stuff is happening, before the investigation is even complete. Will they delete all the lies about sharkbait on other forums and admit they were wrong? Not likely you have an unenviable task ahead of you ccp, to please so many different people from so many different backgrounds, all hellbent on certain entities destruction no matter the cost to the game or the community. BoB vs the coalition of family values
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:28:00 - [3600] Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius Edited by: Atreus Minmatarius on 27/05/2007 23:25:31 Originally by: Avon So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? there is absolutely no reason why any player should comunicate with Devs through MSN (on somethng concerning game bussines). There are enough "official" communication established. It can be conflict of interest becouse we have no idea how close you are to them (or anyone else this is not just for bob) there has to be "paper trace" of the comunication between devs and players. If problem araises CCP can go in there archives and establish that there was nothing wrong. It is way easyer. Plus you already have 1 precident so it is not like it has never happened before. have a problem = file a petition in game or out through website have a sugestion = forums found a bug = petition Which is correct petition section for "Hi mate. Are you going to be comming to the Eve meet in London, or are you tied up at work that weekend?". Stuck maybe? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:28:00 - [3601] Originally by: Liang Nuren I think the entire community is upset that BOB uses MSN to bypass the petition system for reporting bugs (and more). Furthermore, they (likely) get "more" and "better" information via MSN if they talk about EvE with the developers. We're much more upset that a group of players (BOB, and more) are using MSN to speak to the GM's/Devs about EvE. It's a conflict of interest for the CCP Employee, and cheating for the player. Liang Edit: Grammar What community is angry about all that stuff? Some of the community might be angry at the accelerated petition thing (I think everyone can agree if the petition was never created, or accelerated via MSN then that is unprofessional and needs to be looked at) but all the rest of the stuff you lumped in there with it I dont think "the entire community" is really angry about. People are angry about bugs getting fixed? And really what sort of "SEKRET INFOZ" do you think anyone that works at CCP can give anybody that is "better" then what anyone can find out by using IRC (coldfront) or hopping on the test server every now and then? __________________________________________
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:29:00 - [3602] Originally by: mr bighelmet Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 27/05/2007 23:16:52 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Fluffernator I like how they think that the devs being their 'friends' makes it ok...... LMAO bob is just unbelieveable. hell so are the devs! they are kiling this game, but maybe thats their purpose. CCP has alreayd made millions upon millions of it, so why does it need to continue? So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? You think it would just be BoB? Are you upset that BoB communicate with Devs, or that anyone does? What next, ban the fanfest - or at least not let any of the players talk to anyone in CCP about Eve while they are there? /me shrugs. I think the entire community is upset that BOB uses MSN to bypass the petition system for reporting bugs (and more). Furthermore, they (likely) get "more" and "better" information via MSN if they talk about EvE with the developers. We're much more upset that a group of players (BOB, and more) are using MSN to speak to the GM's/Devs about EvE. It's a conflict of interest for the CCP Employee, and cheating for the player. Liang Edit: Grammar you think the entire community is upset? well stop thinking u just failed. im actualy quite **ed off at goons, for the lies they been feeding us, they know sharkbait was doing his job anwering there petition but they twisted it so they could pretend he was cheeting, let put it this way if i'm sharkbait that would have been the last goon petition i would have answered. They didn't try to check it up, i'm mean they could have ask in corp/alliance "did anyone had a petition about regarding the pos?", no what they tried to do is go for the kill, lets make a drama bomb that will hurt BoB, lets publish this right before the weekend so that CCP will not be able to react well and we will gain a few more hours of fame. Maybe u should wake up and start smelling the coffee cuse the ** u smell so far is not doing ur brain any good. /signed
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:29:00 - [3603] Edited by: Fluffernator on 27/05/2007 23:30:24 avon, what section of hte community modded the game content? I am curious, they should also be banned. And avon, stop contrring it as just talking to friends, its very veyr different. what about using msn for this: BOB: the volunteer may have bumbed my dread, i want him banned. dev: ok done. that is not appropriate, you should petition like anyone else. If you want to talk to your bud about his weekend plans so be it, thats entirely different though.
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:30:00 - [3604] Alot of people complaining...... can I pleeeease have your stuff and ISK when you leave? Just donate/Contract it to this character and I'll make sure it's put to good use. If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:30:00 - [3605] Originally by: Liang Nuren Oh, and reporting inappropriate actions of an ISD reporter outside of normal game mechanics and rules is, by definition, cheating. First of all, stop putting words in my mouth... Secondly, listen to what you're claiming! You're claiming that the INAPPROPRIATE actions of an ISD member should be allowed to continue! You're claiming that reporting the INAPPROPRIATE actions of an ISD member is cheating? Your logic escapes me For those of us who likes this game, the sooner an ISD member who is doing INAPPROPRIATE stuff is removed, the better! To analogise to jobs again, if one of my customers tells me that one of my colleagues is in fact breaking our rules of conduct, and I bring that to my boss' attention, we investigate and find out the accusation is right and we punish the perpetrator, we're pretty damn happy that our customer informed us, no matter what the route. My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
NereSky Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:30:00 - [3606] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: NereSky BOB have only got themselves to blame - after their arrogant stance over their last cheating escape and their continued use of borderline exploiting and now this All BOB can do is squirm.misdirect and spin , all this will be hidden away under CCP's magic cover all rug and in a few months the arrogance and complaceny of BOB will set in and another piece of their deep rooted involvement with CCP will be highlighted 'again' atm BOB seem to be clinging on to their seats of power , im just wondering how long they can keep it? The scary thing is you actually believe alot of the stuff you say. It's pretty scary stuff to look at from this side of the fence. I've seen alot of funny goings on in this game, from alot of different alliances and corps. Even your own alliance, then G, put a pos into 'godmode during the battle in azn, or so we were told by cyvok at the time. The only thing intelligable to do is let the do there investigation and give us the findings. The first part has already come out and as expected tbh, sharkbait was exonerated. This current witch hunt has degraded into a farce imo. Even if all finding show that we were innocent / cleared of all naughtiness, the goons and co have already done the damage by mass posting everywhere that it is confirmed fact that stuff is happening, before the investigation is even complete. Will they delete all the lies about sharkbait on other forums and admit they were wrong? Not likely you have an unenviable task ahead of you ccp, to please so many different people from so many different backgrounds, all hellbent on certain entities destruction no matter the cost to the game or the community. Any damage i see has been done by BOB/CCP - Remove BOB the name CCP maybe able to get rid of the shame.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:31:00 - [3607] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Liang Nuren Oh, and reporting inappropriate actions of an ISD reporter outside of normal game mechanics and rules is, by definition, cheating. First of all, stop putting words in my mouth... Secondly, listen to what you're claiming! You're claiming that the INAPPROPRIATE actions of an ISD member should be allowed to continue! You're claiming that reporting the INAPPROPRIATE actions of an ISD member is cheating? Your logic escapes me For those of us who likes this game, the sooner an ISD member who is doing INAPPROPRIATE stuff is removed, the better! To analogise to jobs again, if one of my customers tells me that one of my colleagues is in fact breaking our rules of conduct, and I bring that to my boss' attention, we investigate and find out the accusation is right and we punish the perpetrator, we're pretty damn happy that our customer informed us, no matter what the route. He said, and I quote, "outside of normal game mechanics and rules." Please don't try and twist his words.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:31:00 - [3608] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius Edited by: Atreus Minmatarius on 27/05/2007 23:25:31 Originally by: Avon So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? there is absolutely no reason why any player should comunicate with Devs through MSN (on somethng concerning game bussines). There are enough "official" communication established. It can be conflict of interest becouse we have no idea how close you are to them (or anyone else this is not just for bob) there has to be "paper trace" of the comunication between devs and players. If problem araises CCP can go in there archives and establish that there was nothing wrong. It is way easyer. Plus you already have 1 precident so it is not like it has never happened before. have a problem = file a petition in game or out through website have a sugestion = forums found a bug = petition Which is correct petition section for "Hi mate. Are you going to be comming to the Eve meet in London, or are you tied up at work that weekend?". Stuck maybe? Prolly the same as "Hey, we are getting pwned here, crash this system"-channel or MSN ^-^ Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:32:00 - [3609] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Liang Nuren I am a software developer, and there are strict rules about who I am and am not allowed to talk to about my work. Imagine that. I'm a software developer too.... My boss encourages me to talk to our customers, and develop good relationships with them. It helps our business because we get more information about what our customers need and wants. If a customer points out an error in our software or how we handle it, even though it not be through regular channels, we're happy about it, because it helps us make our product better, for the good of all our customers. If a customer asks me about details for another customer or asks me to harm another customer, I would refuse, as I'm sure 99.9% of all people would (CCP included)... See what I'm getting at? Having good relations and good information exchange with your customers is a GOOD thing, unless abused (and reporting on the inappropriate actions of an ISD member doesn't seem like abuse to me)! Actually that would be an idea. If CCP maintained the same close contact to all customers as it seems they do with BoB, we might not have this thread. So yea, direct contact to the customer can be a good thing, but then it needs to be with all customers. Otherwise those that do not have the contact might be a bit displeased and feel cheated. Remember, it seems to be all about trust. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Atreus Minmatarius Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:32:00 - [3610] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius Edited by: Atreus Minmatarius on 27/05/2007 23:25:31 Originally by: Avon So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? there is absolutely no reason why any player should comunicate with Devs through MSN (on somethng concerning game bussines). There are enough "official" communication established. It can be conflict of interest becouse we have no idea how close you are to them (or anyone else this is not just for bob) there has to be "paper trace" of the comunication between devs and players. If problem araises CCP can go in there archives and establish that there was nothing wrong. It is way easyer. Plus you already have 1 precident so it is not like it has never happened before. have a problem = file a petition in game or out through website have a sugestion = forums found a bug = petition Which is correct petition section for "Hi mate. Are you going to be comming to the Eve meet in London, or are you tied up at work that weekend?". Stuck maybe? clever, but that is not "game bussines" what was upseting you with the ISD guy could have been solved through official means just like I file a petition for something you should too. either that or give us all the msn adress and lets do it the way you did it. whichever it is it has to be the same for everyone. your $15 a month should not grant you more than mine $15 but yeah if you don't have a ride (boat) to the fanfest it would be the "stuck" what i say is my own opinion and does not represent any entity other than myself
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:33:00 - [3611] Originally by: Shadow Elk Originally by: Avon Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius Edited by: Atreus Minmatarius on 27/05/2007 23:25:31 Originally by: Avon So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? there is absolutely no reason why any player should comunicate with Devs through MSN (on somethng concerning game bussines). There are enough "official" communication established. It can be conflict of interest becouse we have no idea how close you are to them (or anyone else this is not just for bob) there has to be "paper trace" of the comunication between devs and players. If problem araises CCP can go in there archives and establish that there was nothing wrong. It is way easyer. Plus you already have 1 precident so it is not like it has never happened before. have a problem = file a petition in game or out through website have a sugestion = forums found a bug = petition Which is correct petition section for "Hi mate. Are you going to be comming to the Eve meet in London, or are you tied up at work that weekend?". Stuck maybe? Prolly the same as "Hey, we are getting pwned here, crash this system"-channel or MSN ^-^ I smell a troll.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:33:00 - [3612] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Victor Vision Rod, I am impressed. I left this thread a few hours ago to have some beers with some friends and just came back, and you are still here posting away... Just one small question - already asked it to Avon, but he seems unable to answer: If one alliance has many devs as friends and has direct contact to them, it would seem to most humans (no matter wether they play EVE or not) that it is quite possible this alliance does indeed get preferential treatment. My question is simple. How would you recommend ensuring a level playingfield? Not easy, since friends tend to help each other. Also friends can use private phone, e-mail or MSN to get in contact and talk about new features or confidential information. Anyways you know a solution? That's the same basic question we had going on in the first incident. The question wether or not CCP employees should be able to play the game. This time it just focuses on wether or not they should even have contact with other players other then through official posts on the forums. I'd say it'd be pretty silly to play Eve without that contact. I mean, there's only so many devs. There's also boatloads of violunteers. Do those too need to stop playing regular accounts and stop having contact with regular players ? Can volunteers be on msn with devs ? Should devs use non-forum methods to ask players for feedback and/or resolve issues ? I think contact by email or msn is fine, as long as the methods are monitored and/or the actions are monitored. The problem of unmonitorable flows like information flows will always remain, even if it is practically restricted to only certain types of information by the monitoring on dev actions. There's simply no way to deal with that information flow without causing more harm then you do good. That's where trust comes in, and relativation of course. Volunteers can be made to sign nda's as a condition of their contract. I'd laugh if, as a player, the EULA contained an NDA. The issue isn't so much contact between Dev's and players, it's a matter of contamination during that dev and player interaction. You can limit that with volunteers via nda's, you cannot resonably do so with players. I don't blame <insert random corp/player name here> for trying to get any and all info from a Dev. I would too, of course. I lay the blame at the feet of the developers. CCP management needs to rein them in, and hard. Given human nature, dev's will let things slip to their friends. Please don't tell me otherwise. CCP needs to be brutal in enforcing very nasty penalties to make it a very stupid thing to let anything slip. Then they need to enforce this rigorously using a large IA department. Do you really think WoW has as proportionally small of an IA dept as Eve? I strongly doubt it. That's because they realize how important perception is for the player base. CCP is just learning this (after 4 years...lol). You're right that non-official line of info always exist... however, serious ethics training combined with nasty punishments for transgressions work for other games/companies. It will work for Eve too. CCP has shown no interest as far as the player base can tell that those penalties and training regimines exist. Given the trust issues bandied about, they absolutely need to do this. NOW. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:34:00 - [3613] Originally by: Mileionaha Edited by: Mileionaha on 27/05/2007 23:22:08 I don't browse these forums much at all, but with the allegations I also read all these posts about how there won't be cover ups or 'spin', but then lo and behold, people post screenshots of the forums where people are talking about corruption, but if you go to that forum an hour or two later, all the posts are gone. No spin? No cover ups? BS. Here, example: http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7857/hhhhaaaaaajj0.jpg vs http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=526921 Hmm, considering the responses in that thread were spam and not what the dev was looking for does it surprise you they got deleted? If a dev opens a topic and asks "I need some info from CEO's about the emails they get from POS kills" and a bunch of people respond with "I can show you the loss mail" or "the grass is green on Rens planet 2" you would expect those responses to be deleted right? As they are spam.... The way forums work is each "thread" has a topic, and anything thats not on that topic is "off-topic" and considered "spam" for that thread. __________________________________________
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:35:00 - [3614] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Liang Nuren I am a software developer, and there are strict rules about who I am and am not allowed to talk to about my work. Imagine that. I'm a software developer too.... My boss encourages me to talk to our customers, and develop good relationships with them. CCP dev spotted. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Kalestra Cable Caldari Faust Industries	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:35:00 - [3615] Originally by: Trishan Are you aware reading other people's conversations without justification is both unethical and unprofessional? But typical of standard human behaviour.
Xalorn Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:36:00 - [3616] To those comparing the fanfest to MSN... The fanfest everyone is invited. MSN is only for friends/special people. Thats the difference. Either everyone gets the MSN connections to devs, or nobody does. Pick one.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:36:00 - [3617] Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius Originally by: Avon Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius Edited by: Atreus Minmatarius on 27/05/2007 23:25:31 Originally by: Avon So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? there is absolutely no reason why any player should comunicate with Devs through MSN (on somethng concerning game bussines). There are enough "official" communication established. It can be conflict of interest becouse we have no idea how close you are to them (or anyone else this is not just for bob) there has to be "paper trace" of the comunication between devs and players. If problem araises CCP can go in there archives and establish that there was nothing wrong. It is way easyer. Plus you already have 1 precident so it is not like it has never happened before. have a problem = file a petition in game or out through website have a sugestion = forums found a bug = petition Which is correct petition section for "Hi mate. Are you going to be comming to the Eve meet in London, or are you tied up at work that weekend?". Stuck maybe? clever, but that is not "game bussines" what was upseting you with the ISD guy could have been solved through official means just like I file a petition for something you should too. either that or give us all the msn adress and lets do it the way you did it. whichever it is it has to be the same for everyone. your $15 a month should not grant you more than mine $15 but yeah if you don't have a ride (boat) to the fanfest it would be the "stuck" I think you must have edited to add the "game business" bit while I was typing my reply, so my reply doesn't actually make as much sense. I have said it before (lots of times), that I agree that MSN should not be used to bypass the correct reporting procedures, but I have no problem with other contact (such as my example). Sorry for the confusion caused. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Maj Woodcock Minmatar United Space Aillance USA	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:38:00 - [3618] Edited by: Maj Woodcock on 27/05/2007 23:40:32 Originally by: Popsikle [bold]Ive worked sysadmin/network admin at alot of different places.[/bold] Can't hold a job huh?? Wonder why. Quick question is it accpetable to "fix" other pepole's post?? PROMISES MADE > PROMISES KEPT *SO SAY WE ALL*
Emeline Cabernet Amarr KVA Noble Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:38:00 - [3619] noone saw this 1 coming.
Eric Black	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:38:00 - [3620] wow, 139 pages of pipl saying the same thing again and again and again and again and again and my eyes hurt from reading it. this whole thing seems to be based on a letter written by a fired employee and a pettion about a gm. the fired employee uses obviuosly doctored irc logs as proof. by doctored i mean at best they are copied and pasted then cleaned up, at worst they are wholly fabricated. also the logs are snippets of conversations, not whole conversastions, easily taken out of context. the other thing. if there are logs of this gms activity provide them, if your going to accuse someone of something have the balls to provide the proof before mouthing off. i mean that in the nicest possible way of course.........in one of the best sayings ive heard in this forum, proof or stuff you. this is just a personal observation of mine about goonswarm. ever noticed that when something doesnt go their way this kind of forum bomb happens? think about it, BoBs whipping them in game, check it out if you dont believe it. same thing happened when they had trouble with LV. i do agree that if there is a problem here it needs sorting, i just find the timing very suss. goons, why all the alts? and please stop repeating yourself over and over again, we get it your upset. if yer right so you should be, if not to bad. ccp does know and is investigating. if that isnt good enough for you then leave, no one is forcing you to play something you dont like or agree with for whatever reason. i also feel that thoose howling for ccp staff to not play this game need to rethink this. ive played mmos, rpgs and table top games for nearly 20 years, yes i play with toy soilders, yuk it up but make sure you listen. these games have in ALL cases benefitted immensly from develpoers playing them, those that dont become out of touch with their product and it dies. on a realated note, devs are human, they need friends to. they play the game so some of those friends will be in here, just like you. it helps the game more than than hurts it.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:38:00 - [3621] Originally by: Avon Which is correct petition section for "Hi mate. Are you going to be comming to the Eve meet in London, or are you tied up at work that weekend?". Stuck maybe? Not sure about that one, but I know which one to use for "There is a bug here and here, and it can be reproduced like this". And I even know which one to use for something like "Ban this ISD guy from XXX-XX, he's annoying me". Not so sure about "How do we jump our capital fleet from point A to point B, in most efficient way?", though. That probably had to be done in corpchat...
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:39:00 - [3622] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Liang Nuren Oh, and reporting inappropriate actions of an ISD reporter outside of normal game mechanics and rules is, by definition, cheating. First of all, stop putting words in my mouth... Secondly, listen to what you're claiming! You're claiming that the INAPPROPRIATE actions of an ISD member should be allowed to continue! You're claiming that reporting the INAPPROPRIATE actions of an ISD member is cheating? Your logic escapes me For those of us who likes this game, the sooner an ISD member who is doing INAPPROPRIATE stuff is removed, the better! To analogise to jobs again, if one of my customers tells me that one of my colleagues is in fact breaking our rules of conduct, and I bring that to my boss' attention, we investigate and find out the accusation is right and we punish the perpetrator, we're pretty damn happy that our customer informed us, no matter what the route. I'm saying use a petition - just like the rest of the Eve community. There are paper trails for a reason. Petitions are paper trails. I'm saying, that you have an unfair advantage over the rest of the Eve community, if you talk about "work" (EvE) with any CCP employee. Even information is an unfair advantage - let alone direct actions. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Nevada Tan	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:39:00 - [3623] Originally by: Eric Black goons, why all the alts? Oh, the hypocrisy.
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:41:00 - [3624] Edited by: Tzrailasa on 27/05/2007 23:40:47 Originally by: Itzena Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Liang Nuren I am a software developer, and there are strict rules about who I am and am not allowed to talk to about my work. Imagine that. I'm a software developer too.... My boss encourages me to talk to our customers, and develop good relationships with them. CCP dev spotted. Would very much like to be Games are not my area of expertise though.... Databases are boring to code, games sound more fun (and you get paid to playtest).... My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:41:00 - [3625] Originally by: NereSky Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: NereSky BOB have only got themselves to blame - after their arrogant stance over their last cheating escape and their continued use of borderline exploiting and now this All BOB can do is squirm.misdirect and spin , all this will be hidden away under CCP's magic cover all rug and in a few months the arrogance and complaceny of BOB will set in and another piece of their deep rooted involvement with CCP will be highlighted 'again' atm BOB seem to be clinging on to their seats of power , im just wondering how long they can keep it? The scary thing is you actually believe alot of the stuff you say. It's pretty scary stuff to look at from this side of the fence. I've seen alot of funny goings on in this game, from alot of different alliances and corps. Even your own alliance, then G, put a pos into 'godmode during the battle in azn, or so we were told by cyvok at the time. The only thing intelligable to do is let the do there investigation and give us the findings. The first part has already come out and as expected tbh, sharkbait was exonerated. This current witch hunt has degraded into a farce imo. Even if all finding show that we were innocent / cleared of all naughtiness, the goons and co have already done the damage by mass posting everywhere that it is confirmed fact that stuff is happening, before the investigation is even complete. Will they delete all the lies about sharkbait on other forums and admit they were wrong? Not likely you have an unenviable task ahead of you ccp, to please so many different people from so many different backgrounds, all hellbent on certain entities destruction no matter the cost to the game or the community. Any damage i see has been done by BOB/CCP - Remove BOB the name CCP maybe able to get rid of the shame. The only shame i have seen as of late is certain entities running around frothing at the mouth spreading well timed propoganda for maximum effect and without verification. I have myself had the whole dev/ccp stuff chucked at mei n local before and i find it puzzling. Did i become a dev at a certain point but had a brainwipe so i didn't remember. How often do i cheat, how long do i have to stay in bob to get all these paranoid h4xx weapons i hear of all the time. Where is this node crash button (funniest one considering were fighting the masters of crashing, GS) . Why do no ex bobs say anything about the h4xxing were accused of? Are they brainwiped and forget it. Anyone can accuse anyone of anything at anytime but at least have all the facts in front of yourselves before making a scene. If and when the results come back, you could have some rather large eggs on your face BoB vs the coalition of family values
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:41:00 - [3626] Originally by: Flaming Lemming Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: eleuthereus Edited by: eleuthereus on 27/05/2007 22:46:36 This just in ---- 6. Arkanon used the POS as an example of what the petition could have been about, while it could actually be about anything that requires corp roles ro re-enact, such as the locking down of blueprints maybe ? In fact, that would be the petition in question most likely, since a similar issue has been handled in the same way in the past by the very same dev as far as I now understand. Of course, this remains to be confirmed, but If I was CEO pyrex I'd take a look at the bpo petition while asking fellow GS memmbers to not pursue the issue anymore for now. Well then, IF Sharkbait had informed the CEO via Eve-mail that he was joining to do whatever..as appears to be policy, or if someone had given DS1 this info in response to their petition, then the appearance of impropriety would have been avoided...and after the T20 incident, even the appearance of impropriety should be something CCP desperately tries to avoid. Of course, that still leaves the other topics raised. someone needs to give Sharkbait some lessons in politeness. If he came and started mucking about in my corp w/o so much as a bye your leave, I'd definitely go WTF? and petition him. If I was at war with a major alliance and was having a rough time of it, I'd probably put on my tinfoil hat and have a little freak out, too... Wtf, CCP? you guys need to train your people a wee bit better. We can't read your minds. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Xalorn Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:42:00 - [3627] Originally by: Avon I have said it before (lots of times), that I agree that MSN should not be used to bypass the correct reporting procedures, but I have no problem with other contact (such as my example). I would agree with you but for one problem. You need trust. Trust that CCP tossed out the window during the T20 incident.
Forums Troll	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:42:00 - [3628] "You can't do that to me! That's ILLEGAL. I WILL SUE!". Common phrase uttered during a flame war. Usually with more misspelling. During a big drama meltdown someone claims to have been the victim of some crime such as: slander, defamation, libel, copyright infringement, harassment, spam, forgery, impersonation, whatever. The victim's sock puppets then all rise up to describe and define the alleged crime. In 99.999% of alleged cases what has happened doesn't even come close to meaning what they think it does. To rise to the level of e-lawyer though, requires that one side start spouting off a bunch of legal sounding bull****. The best e-lawyer will use recycled arguments from TV shows like Law & Order or Matlock. The very best e-lawyers practice during their spare time plating Phoenix Wright. Everyone gets a laugh when, on the advice of an e-lawyer, some aggrieved party actually consults a real attorney and has to pay $200 to be made the subject of fun. Another type of e-lawyering is a common occurence on communities such as lj_seattle. Someone will ask for advice on a real legal issue. "How do I break my lease?" is always popular. A number of people who think they have experience with this issue ("I'm the janitor at an apartment complex so I KNOW.") will followup with horribly bad advice. Often drama and hilarity ensues in followup comments to the community. Note that in these kinds of queries the people that followup with references to real laws are those that get ignored.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:42:00 - [3629] Originally by: Moving Along you think the entire community is upset? well stop thinking u just failed. blahblahblah Maybe u should wake up and start smelling the coffee cuse the **** u smell so far is not doing ur brain any good. /signed 4210 responses to this thread, and 285883 views (as of just now). I'd say that's a fair bit of "the whole community". Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Garrett Smith ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:43:00 - [3630] Originally by: Eric Black wow, 139 pages of pipl saying the same thing again and again and again and again and again and my eyes hurt from reading it. this whole thing seems to be based on a letter written by a fired employee and a pettion about a gm. the fired employee uses obviuosly doctored irc logs as proof. by doctored i mean at best they are copied and pasted then cleaned up, at worst they are wholly fabricated. also the logs are snippets of conversations, not whole conversastions, easily taken out of context. the other thing. if there are logs of this gms activity provide them, if your going to accuse someone of something have the balls to provide the proof before mouthing off. i mean that in the nicest possible way of course.........in one of the best sayings ive heard in this forum, proof or stuff you. this is just a personal observation of mine about goonswarm. ever noticed that when something doesnt go their way this kind of forum bomb happens? think about it, BoBs whipping them in game, check it out if you dont believe it. same thing happened when they had trouble with LV. i do agree that if there is a problem here it needs sorting, i just find the timing very suss. goons, why all the alts? and please stop repeating yourself over and over again, we get it your upset. if yer right so you should be, if not to bad. ccp does know and is investigating. if that isnt good enough for you then leave, no one is forcing you to play something you dont like or agree with for whatever reason. i also feel that thoose howling for ccp staff to not play this game need to rethink this. ive played mmos, rpgs and table top games for nearly 20 years, yes i play with toy soilders, yuk it up but make sure you listen. these games have in ALL cases benefitted immensly from develpoers playing them, those that dont become out of touch with their product and it dies. on a realated note, devs are human, they need friends to. they play the game so some of those friends will be in here, just like you. it helps the game more than than hurts it. Lol hi bob alt Originally by: El Yatta they shouldnt have gotten involved in supercaps, because on the whole they are very dull, except for 2-3 people in the alliance who get to go "wheee, i cant be scrambled, pwn pwn".
Eric Black	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:49:00 - [3631] Originally by: Nevada Tan Originally by: Eric Black goons, why all the alts? Oh, the hypocrisy. i arent an alt. and congrats on ignoring the rest of my post.......
Batmonkey Amarr Quantum Empire	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:50:00 - [3632] Edited by: Batmonkey on 27/05/2007 23:50:05 Edited by: Batmonkey on 27/05/2007 23:49:18 Damn alt post. ----------------------------------- THE STREETS WILL FLOW WITH THE BLOOD OF THE NON-BELIEVERS!!!
Borgholio Minmatar Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:51:00 - [3633] Originally by: Eldo Davip and what do us mods get? Fired? ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:51:00 - [3634] Originally by: Maj Woodcock Edited by: Maj Woodcock on 27/05/2007 23:40:32 Originally by: Popsikle [bold]Ive worked sysadmin/network admin at alot of different places.[/bold] Can't hold a job huh?? Wonder why. Quick question is it accpetable to "fix" other pepole's post?? I can hold a job fine thanks. I change jobs to move up the ladder at other places, and I have been in the industry now for hmm, 12 years or so (at least) professionally. Snide personal attacks that are unfounded seem to be in season however. Define fix? I used to admin/mod a few very large boards. I would fix what people wrote all the time. Spelling mistakes, profanity avoidance, people that dont speak english naturally, ect. __________________________________________
Razor Jaxx Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:52:00 - [3635] 1. The Sharkbait issue : I have no reason to doubt Arkanon's findings on this one. A high-ranked member of DS1 hinted at a BPO lockdown issue, which could very well have been petitioned privately, triggering the whole process. Considering how long it took for the issue to be made public, and in what context (that of a political agenda pushed over by the Swarm, which is incidentally the parent alliance of DS1), I doubt that the original petitioner will ever come clean. So, who do I trust? The head of IA, who has nothing to gain and everything to lose in telling us lies, and whose job is under intense scrutiny by all parties involved? Or the goons, who are so obviously non-partial, as this thread demonstrates? 2. The RP Arc issue : There's rigging, and there's rigging. It is common in role-playing for game masters (here, the Aurora team) to establish a storyline, and stick to it. Players can participate in events on one side or the other, but for the storyline to progress and make sense, the end result is usually rigged towards a given faction. In order for chapter 2 of a story arc to take place, you have to rely on chapter 1 ending in an expected fashion. This, however, does not imply that the players on the winning faction side get better rewards than the players on the losing side. So rigging the story is not a problem in itself. Rigging the rewards is. 3. The ISD-IC incident : Probably the most volatile of the allegations. My personal take on this, is that Dread (Orange Species) made a typically off-handed, arrogant, e-peen-waving, I-m-one-of-the-leet-coldfront-kids comment. In short, typical BoB arrogance, which is this particular case pretty much fueled (and continues to fuel, in this very thread) the whole current Goon threadnaught. The point remains that the ISD reporter should have left the system when asked to, whether he bumped a dread or not is actually irrelevant. By refusing to comply, he put his own position in jeopardy. It is however also true that the ISD reporter's subsequent "execution" was rushed, and the penalty very harsh in regard to the actions he was supposedly guilty of. Was any external pressure applied? Were the proper channels followed? If yes, there must exist a trace of due petition process. If not, then there is really a problem regarding priviledged connections.
Eric Black	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:55:00 - [3636] Lol hi bob alt again, no alt here, 1 account with one player character on it. and congrats on ignoring the rst of the post to......
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:55:00 - [3637] hey BOB members, tell me your dev msn contact, I have a petition that hasnt been answered in two weeks........
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:56:00 - [3638] Originally by: PC5 Edited by: PC5 on 27/05/2007 23:47:19 BoB damage control is working hard. Now i see new star here Avon (aparently person who cares much). No matter what will be said damage has been done. I have my own mind and opinion (and many many other ppl that i know ingame thinks same way). No matter what will be said here things wont change. CCP lost my trust, you lost my trust and respect as alliance completly. What 'secrets' are you hiding too? I need to make few friends at CCP maybe we can play at same level then. Actually, if you guys undocked more often, and didnt run away you could play at the same level as bob. They actually pvp, maybe thats the secret info you were looking for? This just in, how not to lose your space: UNDOCK. There, look, I must know a dev, because I know how to play just as well as bob! I jest, but thats all IC, irl I would give you a hug and say sorry for taking your stations. __________________________________________
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:58:00 - [3639] Originally by: Shadow Elk Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Fluffernator Edited by: Fluffernator on 27/05/2007 23:30:24 avon, what section of hte community modded the game content? I am curious, they should also be banned. And avon, stop contrring it as just talking to friends, its very veyr different. what about using msn for this: BOB: the volunteer may have bumbed my dread, i want him banned. dev: ok done. that is not appropriate, you should petition like anyone else. If you want to talk to your bud about his weekend plans so be it, thats entirely different though. All of goonswarm. client cache portrait hacks Wasnt that actually stated not to be a hax/cheat and shortly thereafter implemented in the game? No, it was stated to be an exploit, and a hack as it gave some people an advantage over others. goonswarm then said, well we will still use it as you cant detect it and we wont stop using it, so CCP implemented it. __________________________________________
ZeroForce	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:58:00 - [3640] you need to backoff before you blow this argument up even more ok bob pet?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:59:00 - [3641] Originally by: Mr Friendly To bring this back on track... the allegation is a member of BoB used his msn to directly and immediately contact a Dev who directly and immediately made an alteration in-game, to BoB's benefit. The allegation is not that they were talking about football. try to stay on point and don't setup straw men Have you actually read the thread / allegations? And then you talk about straw men? Superb. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:01:00 - [3642] Edited by: HankMurphy on 28/05/2007 00:01:09 Originally by: Fluffernator bob themselves have admitted to using MSN to speak to devs on multiple occasions, but they see no problem in it. Its bob and the devs that are killing this game lets recap: goonies say all of bob is killing the game because one guy has a RL friend on MSN. Being quick not to mention there was no actual misconduct! The dev did exactly what he should. Someone point out where, IN THIS INCIDENT, someone in game received an unfair IN-GAME advantage over someone else? (No one did. No action was made that shouldn't have been. Just CCP doing their job.) Fact: CCP (especially since t20) has done a remarkable job of being overly professional with the community and as transparent as humanly possible with their actions. They have provided us this game for 4 years now, 4 years of hard work and determination. 4 years of taking a small unpopular and revolutionary idea and transforming it into the best MMO out there. ...and you want me to believe they'd throw away all that to help bob? Because GOONSWARM seems to think so? What actually happened? A volunteer ISD reporter was fired for breaking the rules of his job (his actions: putting a capital fleet at possible risk and refusing to leave when the fleet requested he do so.) Thats it! Where was the misconduct again? Oh, your all just upset you don't have friends at CCP? Because you know.. if you have friends, your automatically rigging the entire game! Burn the witch!! Give me a break. Your all so quick to blur the lines. "they all in bed w/ each other, ruining the game". "every member of bob is a dev and cheats" Now, I dont know about all of you, but I have many friends in life. Many of whom work for companies that are customers of mine. (Very large businesses, lots of money flying around, etc etc..) Now by all means, there are plenty of WRONG things I could do with those relationships. But i like my job my paycheck and my company, so I would be crazy to act on anything blatantly wrong. Me simply having friends, knowing someone, there is nothing wrong with that. If I see a 600Meg customer go down, i may give my buddy a call at that company and give him a heads up to fix it. and vice versa. That DOESN'T, in itself, make my actions inappropriate. Its not misconduct. I just know the guy. How about we start judging ppl on their ACTIONS and not based on who they know? Ahhh... but i guess that wouldn't make for a nice smear campaign in the middle of your losing war Notifying an employee at CCP about the wrong doings of a volunteer ISD is not misconduct. I dont care how you notify them. If they had messaged: "hey, can i get some t2 bpos" and the dev said "sure man, here ya go!" THAT would be misconduct. But that didn't happen (but we can keep bringing up t20 I guess and pretend this is even remotely related ). Fact: The only wrong ACTION taken here that is not drown in speculation and baseless accusations is this: The blatant illegal actions of SA goons. The only action taken that is DEFINITIVELY a crime was the actions taken by these well known game breakers. Its not even the first time they have done it! We want to damn an entire alliance and a company because 2 ppl happen to know each other in RL? That's what is happening here. Fear mongering that because two ppl knew each other, somehow the game is rigged against everyone else. Ridiculous. ...and who is leading the villagers w/ torches and pitchforks? -A group hell bent on destroying every game the become part of. -A group that has gone above and beyond 'notifying the community' and is RIGHT NOW fueling an internet wide smear campaign agains CCP? -A group that happened to lose a lot of territory to bob in past 72hrs (hmmm..) I judge ppl on their actions.... by what they actually DO. These goons were ORDERED by their alliance leader to DO this . Now who is killing the game again?
DoctorGonzo Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:01:00 - [3643] First off, I havenÆt read all 142 pages of this thread, IÆve read about the first 30, so I apologise if I go over ground that has already been posted and discussed. All the accusations of BoB cheating are simply not true - we donÆt cheat. One CCP employee cheated and the whole of BoB have had to shoulder the burden of his actions. CCP have never apologised for their handling of the T20 affair and T20 has never apologised to BoB for the sh*tstorm he alone created. IÆm still waiting for T20 to publicly stand up and apologise to the BoB membership for ruining our well earned respect and achievements. And before I get flamed by people saying the leadership of BoB knew about the bpoÆs and we were given information about the game before everyone else is also rubbish. IÆve been in the upper echelons of the BoB leadership since BNC joined the alliance and have NEVER, EVER come across any wrong doing. Those that know me in game know IÆm a straight up guy; my word is my honour and all that. Unfortunately these scandals about CCP, CCP employees and CCP volunteers will continue until there is unequivocal proof that there has been no wrong doing by CCP staff in game, especially where 0.0 conflict is concerned. I have no idea how they will achieve this. The paranoia created by the T20 / kugustumen scandal is plain to see in this thread. The anti BoB, anti CCP, anti Goon feeling is also plain to see. It seems to me that there is a very small but vocal minority that would like to see the downfall of this game, or the downfall of certain elements of the player base. Personally, I can only presume that jealousy is the overriding emotion of this minority. From my perspective, I see this thread being more about tinfoil asshattery, paranoia and awful customer service than anything else. To try and put things into perspective - In RL I run a successful multi-million pound company. If we ever have a problem then, as sure as eggs are eggs, communication is usually the route cause, be that with our customers or internally. I donÆt see CCP escaping from these same problems û this current drama bomb is more than likely a communication mess-up. GM 39 should have told GM 12 that he was about to do X, at which point the paying customer (corp 1063) should have been told that GM 39 was about to carry out task Y. ItÆs such a simple procedure to mess-up and the kind of mistake that happens in businesses all over the world every day. All this OMGUNFAIRDEVCHEATHAX rubbish just has to stop. People make mistakes and yes it costs the paying customer sometimes. As for the preferential treatment argument û again I just donÆt see it either. If BoB have been given preferential treatment by the game developers then CCP should own up and publicly apologise for their actions, but also clear any innocent party (something they have failed to do in the past). I know it makes me feel sick to the bones to think that we (BoB) æmayÆ have been given special treatment. Again I must stress, I have never witnessed such an act and IÆve been involved in the decision making of BoB, to some degree, for over three years. It also makes me sick that CCP havenÆt cleared the BoB leadership and player base for previous allegations, instead they let mud slinging threads carry on. A simple player X, corp Y and alliance Z have done nothing wrong, one of our own staff that was entirely to blame, would have stopped all this nonsense. Bleh, I donÆt know, I just want this constant witch hunt and paranoia fuelled hatred to stop. I want the game back that I and everyone else loved to play. I want the accusations of cheating and preferential treatment to either be proved or the accused to be exonerated of any wrong doing. This cloud of uncertainty is, in my opinion, breaking the game we all love.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:01:00 - [3644] Originally by: Razor Jaxx The point remains that the ISD reporter should have left the system when asked to, whether he bumped a dread or not is actually irrelevant. By refusing to comply, he put his own position in jeopardy. Ok, since it seems to be common knowledge - can someone point me to documentation that states ISD member has to obey player's wish? I just want to make sure I have something in writing, before I find an ISD guy on server and tell him to leave LOCAL after he allegedly bumps me. Thank you.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:03:00 - [3645] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Shadow Elk Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Fluffernator Edited by: Fluffernator on 27/05/2007 23:30:24 avon, what section of hte community modded the game content? I am curious, they should also be banned. And avon, stop contrring it as just talking to friends, its very veyr different. what about using msn for this: BOB: the volunteer may have bumbed my dread, i want him banned. dev: ok done. that is not appropriate, you should petition like anyone else. If you want to talk to your bud about his weekend plans so be it, thats entirely different though. All of goonswarm. client cache portrait hacks Wasnt that actually stated not to be a hax/cheat and shortly thereafter implemented in the game? No, it was stated to be an exploit, and a hack as it gave some people an advantage over others. goonswarm then said, well we will still use it as you cant detect it and we wont stop using it, so CCP implemented it. And that is how it should be done, even out the odds. Now, will we be given MSN contact to the Devs and GM's? I got lots of great questions and suggestions about the game I pay to play and dont want them to get lost in the petition box. Or will it be made sure that no corp in the future has any chance to get a unfair advantage through unfair interaction with the developers? Coz if the chance is there you can be absolutely sure someone will grab it. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
ZeroForce	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:03:00 - [3646] watch out BoB forum brigade on the loose spreading more crap...sometimes i wonder if you guys look at what you type
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:05:00 - [3647] Dear Band of Brothers, Do not post in this thread anymore. There is no logical reason for you to do so. If your innocence is as self-evident as you claim, then why are you struggling so hard to defend it? If you are guilty, then either CCP is going to disband you, or let it slide completely, in which case you'll be the only people playing the game in three weeks. Thus, there's absolutely no reason for you to be here, abusing people who have a right to talk here. Sincerely, Andreus
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:06:00 - [3648] Edited by: Sentinel Eeex on 28/05/2007 00:04:58 Originally by: DoctorGonzo Bleh, I donÆt know, I just want this constant witch hunt and paranoia fuelled hatred to stop. I want the game back that I and everyone else loved to play. I want the accusations of cheating and preferential treatment to either be proved or the accused to be exonerated of any wrong doing. This cloud of uncertainty is, in my opinion, breaking the game we all love. Hi. Are you aware if any of BoB higher-up have ever used out-of-game (except fanfest) communications in order to contact CCP employees? Do you have any idea if they ever talked about EVE related topics? Thanks. EDIT: and that was a nice post, tbh, forgot to say it first time :)
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:07:00 - [3649] Originally by: DoctorGonzo bla bla bla. Me ubber, me wins. You lose you shut up. Lets face the truth. A good part of BoB cheats. Therefore you either are part of those who cheat and consequently won't confess here, or you are part of those who don't and won't know anything about it. You may try to fool yourself in order to inflate your ego conquered by the results of other people cheating, but in the end it means nothing. It is obvious your alliance is having help for a long time from GMs/Devs in many many ways. Everything you have is tainted by it, and no one will ever know how far you could get in your own legs.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:07:00 - [3650] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Thus, there's absolutely no reason for you to be here, abusing people who have a right to talk here. Sincerely, Andreus I have a right to talk here too, non? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:09:00 - [3651] The issue was petitioned at may 6th. Fixed at may 9. Remedial stepped down from GS leadership on the 10th. And I remember reading somthing about the reason behind it somewhere on these forums (had to do with Remedial not wanting to be drawn into something that might put him in trouble IRL). Something smells fishy..... Just my two cents of tinfoilhattery. If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:09:00 - [3652] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: DoctorGonzo bla bla bla. Me ubber, me wins. You lose you shut up. Lets face the truth. A good part of BoB cheats. Therefore you either are part of those who cheat and consequently won't confess here, or you are part of those who don't and won't know anything about it. You may try to fool yourself in order to inflate your ego conquered by the results of other people cheating, but in the end it means nothing. It is obvious your alliance is having help for a long time from GMs/Devs in many many ways. Everything you have is tainted by it, and no one will ever know how far you could get in your own legs. I assume you are now going to back up your smack, right? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:09:00 - [3653] Originally by: Avon I have a right to talk here too, non? Only if you're not guilty (which is looking fairly unlikely now), and only if you're not the normal BoBbit who constantly flaunts his supposed superiority and belittles everyone else.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:10:00 - [3654] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Dear Band of Brothers, Do not post in this thread anymore. There is no logical reason for you to do so. If your innocence is as self-evident as you claim, then why are you struggling so hard to defend it? If you are guilty, then either CCP is going to disband you, or let it slide completely, in which case you'll be the only people playing the game in three weeks. Thus, there's absolutely no reason for you to be here, abusing people who have a right to talk here. Sincerely, Andreus rofl
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:10:00 - [3655] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Razor Jaxx The point remains that the ISD reporter should have left the system when asked to, whether he bumped a dread or not is actually irrelevant. By refusing to comply, he put his own position in jeopardy. Ok, since it seems to be common knowledge - can someone point me to documentation that states ISD member has to obey player's wish? I just want to make sure I have something in writing, before I find an ISD guy on server and tell him to leave LOCAL after he allegedly bumps me. Thank you. Hmm, its stated somewhere, if you search for it you can probably find it. that would require work on your part however. If a reporter enters the system, and is watching you, you have the right to ask them to leave. Thats the rules the reporters play by. On top of that, as a ISD member you are to never smack in local or insult anyone, which some say happened. And what happens if the truth is revealed this reporter was canned for bumping the dreads, not leaving when they were asked, and smacking bob in local. Then just imagine for a minute what corps/alliances would want to smack bob using any means possible? Hmm, could it be the ISD member was potentially a member of the Coalition? could it be someone on the Coalition was using their special abilities to spy on BoB, or somehow alter the battle in favor of his friends? What happens then if people find out someone from the coalition tried to cheat and got caught? Let me guess, the coalition will keep on with the witch hunt and claim its not true right? __________________________________________
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:12:00 - [3656] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: DoctorGonzo bla bla bla. Me ubber, me wins. You lose you shut up. Lets face the truth. A good part of BoB cheats. Therefore you either are part of those who cheat and consequently won't confess here, or you are part of those who don't and won't know anything about it. Lol, cant see the forest, blinded by trees eh? __________________________________________
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:13:00 - [3657] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Razor Jaxx The point remains that the ISD reporter should have left the system when asked to, whether he bumped a dread or not is actually irrelevant. By refusing to comply, he put his own position in jeopardy. Ok, since it seems to be common knowledge - can someone point me to documentation that states ISD member has to obey player's wish? I just want to make sure I have something in writing, before I find an ISD guy on server and tell him to leave LOCAL after he allegedly bumps me. Thank you. I would like to know this too, because as far as I remember during the ASCN-BoB war, ISD reporters certainly didn't listen to anyone telling them to leave. The real point here that CCP should really take to heart is that they need to figure out how exactly a few incidents like the ones that started this thread can lead to a 140 page thread within 48 hours. If they ever wondered how much hostility and anger towards CCP exists among the playerbase, I think here they have their answer. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
NereSky Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:13:00 - [3658] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: DoctorGonzo bla bla bla. Me ubber, me wins. You lose you shut up. Lets face the truth. A good part of BoB cheats. Therefore you either are part of those who cheat and consequently won't confess here, or you are part of those who don't and won't know anything about it. You may try to fool yourself in order to inflate your ego conquered by the results of other people cheating, but in the end it means nothing. It is obvious your alliance is having help for a long time from GMs/Devs in many many ways. Everything you have is tainted by it, and no one will ever know how far you could get in your own legs. I assume you are now going to back up your smack, right? remembers back over the years to all the allegations which must still be lurking under the magic cover up rug. i remember back to the first public outcry which was never resolved i remember all BOBs past achievements and success's now tainted with the word 'cheat' in a few years ill remember BOB not as the uber pvp alliance but as cheats who got want they wanted by nefarious means.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:14:00 - [3659] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Liang Nuren Oh, and reporting inappropriate actions of an ISD reporter outside of normal game mechanics and rules is, by definition, cheating. First of all, stop putting words in my mouth... Secondly, listen to what you're claiming! You're claiming that the INAPPROPRIATE actions of an ISD member should be allowed to continue! You're claiming that reporting the INAPPROPRIATE actions of an ISD member is cheating? Your logic escapes me For those of us who likes this game, the sooner an ISD member who is doing INAPPROPRIATE stuff is removed, the better! To analogise to jobs again, if one of my customers tells me that one of my colleagues is in fact breaking our rules of conduct, and I bring that to my boss' attention, we investigate and find out the accusation is right and we punish the perpetrator, we're pretty damn happy that our customer informed us, no matter what the route. Are you insane? Or blind? Oh wait, you're trolling. outside of normal game mechanics and rules is the part you seem to have skipped over, despite having quoted it yourself. GG. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Devious Syn	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:15:00 - [3660] Edited by: Devious Syn on 28/05/2007 00:14:58 Originally by: DoctorGonzo First off, I havenÆt read all 142 pages of this thread, IÆve read about the first 30, so I apologise if I go over ground that has already been posted and discussed. All the accusations of BoB cheating are simply not true - we donÆt cheat. Stop right there dude, if it smells like shat, looks like shat, ya know what it's usually shat. DONT try to make it sound like Poor bob had ONE incident happen and all of eve thinks they are cheats, and the only reason why is they are jealous of our uber uberness.... There have been how many VALID (HUGE) post/scandals about your "righteous has no clue about all this cheating" alliance? I've said this b4, all of eve knows whats up, in fact even people who DONT play eve know whats up. I've played MANY MANY MANY MMO's and I know for a fact i've yet to see so many "incidents" involving THE SAME DAMN PEOPLE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. My advice: Try not to get anything else get out for a few months, ffs do a better job on the cover up part.
DoctorGonzo Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:16:00 - [3661] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: DoctorGonzo bla bla bla. Me ubber, me wins. You lose you shut up. Lets face the truth. A good part of BoB cheats. Therefore you either are part of those who cheat and consequently won't confess here, or you are part of those who don't and won't know anything about it. You may try to fool yourself in order to inflate your ego conquered by the results of other people cheating, but in the end it means nothing. It is obvious your alliance is having help for a long time from GMs/Devs in many many ways. Everything you have is tainted by it, and no one will ever know how far you could get in your own legs. Read the last paragraph of my original post again please, it's simple to understand - if we've cheated in anyway, then ban the cheats. If we haven't, then clear us of any wrong doing.
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:20:00 - [3662] Edited by: Vantras on 28/05/2007 00:19:27 DoctorGonzo's post (up there) was amazingly well constructed. IF this is representative of how BOB leaders feel and they are willing to push back a bit at CCP to clean up the game then I am in fact optimistic that its possible. I wish other BOB posters had a simliar-clear thinking way of communicating. I applaud this post.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:21:00 - [3663] Originally by: Popsikle could it be someone on the Coalition was using their special abilities to spy on BoB, or somehow alter the battle in favor of his friends? What happens then if people find out someone from the coalition tried to cheat and got caught? Let me guess, the coalition will keep on with the witch hunt and claim its not true right? I have to agree with you on this one. That's even my analysis of what happened with the ISD reporter too... too bad its a non-issue to me. However, I still claim that the method in which CCP was contacted should have been a petition, and to be anything else, is cheating. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:21:00 - [3664] Originally by: DoctorGonzo Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: DoctorGonzo bla bla bla. Me ubber, me wins. You lose you shut up. Lets face the truth. A good part of BoB cheats. Therefore you either are part of those who cheat and consequently won't confess here, or you are part of those who don't and won't know anything about it. You may try to fool yourself in order to inflate your ego conquered by the results of other people cheating, but in the end it means nothing. It is obvious your alliance is having help for a long time from GMs/Devs in many many ways. Everything you have is tainted by it, and no one will ever know how far you could get in your own legs. Read the last paragraph of my original post again please, it's simple to understand - if we've cheated in anyway, then ban the cheats. If we haven't, then clear us of any wrong doing. I'm afraid, after the endless stream of arrogant posts of BoB's leadership, it won't be that simple. You'll always be marked as cheaters, no matter what the outcome of the investigations. Sucks to be you right now. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
MightyGuy	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:22:00 - [3665] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Mr Friendly To bring this back on track... the allegation is a member of BoB used his msn to directly and immediately contact a Dev who directly and immediately made an alteration in-game, to BoB's benefit. The allegation is not that they were talking about football. try to stay on point and don't setup straw men Have you actually read the thread / allegations? And then you talk about straw men? Superb. Wow are you crazy? Have YOU read the thread? You put together a straw man trying to change peoples perceptions of the GM's and BoB msn communication. The WHOLE ISSUE is that Daakon arrogantly told an ISD member to leave a system because he supposedly bumped a dread using standard warp-to procedure to watch a fight (not possible). He was then promptly banned when he refused to follow a BoB members order. Daakon, the BoB member allegedly had said in local "Well, I guess I'll have to call up my friends in CCP and get you dealt with." shortly before he was banned. BoB helps solidify the accusation by OPENLY ADMITTING they can chat on MSN with the devs whenever they want. I only ask you to please, OPEN YOUR EYES!
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:22:00 - [3666] Edited by: HankMurphy on 28/05/2007 00:21:30 Originally by: Malachon Draco I would like to know this too, because as far as I remember during the ASCN-BoB war, ISD reporters certainly didn't listen to anyone telling them to leave. The real point here that CCP should really take to heart is that they need to figure out how exactly a few incidents like the ones that started this thread can lead to a 140 page thread within 48 hours. If they ever wondered how much hostility and anger towards CCP exists among the playerbase, I think here they have their answer. i imagine a force capable of crashing our whole website with spam would have no problem making this thread as big as possible to make it look like 'the whole community' is up in arms about this. server numbers looked pretty good last night for a holiday weekend. but of course, as we've been told, all the alt posts here are purely made in defiance of bob elitism ...from players in all different factions of the community. It would be silly to think one alliance might be using alot of alts to hide who they really are I wonder which person has the most # of different characters posting in this thread? good stuff
DoctorGonzo Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:24:00 - [3667] Originally by: Devious Syn Edited by: Devious Syn on 28/05/2007 00:14:58 Originally by: DoctorGonzo First off, I havenÆt read all 142 pages of this thread, IÆve read about the first 30, so I apologise if I go over ground that has already been posted and discussed. All the accusations of BoB cheating are simply not true - we donÆt cheat. Stop right there dude, if it smells like shat, looks like shat, ya know what it's usually shat. DONT try to make it sound like Poor bob had ONE incident happen and all of eve thinks they are cheats, and the only reason why is they are jealous of our uber uberness.... There have been how many VALID (HUGE) post/scandals about your "righteous has no clue about all this cheating" alliance? I've said this b4, all of eve knows whats up, in fact even people who DONT play eve know whats up. I've played MANY MANY MANY MMO's and I know for a fact i've yet to see so many "incidents" involving THE SAME DAMN PEOPLE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. My advice: Try not to get anything else get out for a few months, ffs do a better job on the cover up part. I completely agree, there has been waaay tooo many scandals about BoB. However, there has also been very little in the way of proof to back the scandals up. I am with you though, if there's a rat then they need to be found and hung out to dry, but if there hasn't then the accused need to be cleared - once and for all.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:28:00 - [3668] Originally by: MightyGuy Originally by: Avon Originally by: Mr Friendly To bring this back on track... the allegation is a member of BoB used his msn to directly and immediately contact a Dev who directly and immediately made an alteration in-game, to BoB's benefit. The allegation is not that they were talking about football. try to stay on point and don't setup straw men Have you actually read the thread / allegations? And then you talk about straw men? Superb. Wow are you crazy? Have YOU read the thread? You put together a straw man trying to change peoples perceptions of the GM's and BoB msn communication. The WHOLE ISSUE is that Daakon arrogantly told an ISD member to leave a system because he supposedly bumped a dread using standard warp-to procedure to watch a fight (not possible). He was then promptly banned when he refused to follow a BoB members order. Daakon, the BoB member allegedly had said in local "Well, I guess I'll have to call up my friends in CCP and get you dealt with." shortly before he was banned. BoB helps solidify the accusation by OPENLY ADMITTING they can chat on MSN with the devs whenever they want. I only ask you to please, OPEN YOUR EYES! Which part of the allegation was that "a member of BoB used his msn to directly and immediately contact a Dev who directly and immediately made an alteration in-game, to BoB's benefit."? I thought the allegation was that someone in BoB used MSN to report someone in ISD who was then removed from ISD? I didn't see any indication of who the BoB member was alleged to have MSN'd. Adding "facts" to increase the sensationalism doesn't actually make for a good case. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Devious Syn	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:29:00 - [3669] Edited by: Devious Syn on 28/05/2007 00:30:06 Originally by: MightyGuy Originally by: Avon Originally by: Mr Friendly To bring this back on track... the allegation is a member of BoB used his msn to directly and immediately contact a Dev who directly and immediately made an alteration in-game, to BoB's benefit. The allegation is not that they were talking about football. try to stay on point and don't setup straw men Have you actually read the thread / allegations? And then you talk about straw men? Superb. Wow are you crazy? Have YOU read the thread? You put together a straw man trying to change peoples perceptions of the GM's and BoB msn communication. The WHOLE ISSUE is that Daakon arrogantly told an ISD member to leave a system because he supposedly bumped a dread using standard warp-to procedure to watch a fight (not possible). He was then promptly banned when he refused to follow a BoB members order. Daakon, the BoB member allegedly had said in local "Well, I guess I'll have to call up my friends in CCP and get you dealt with." shortly before he was banned. BoB helps solidify the accusation by OPENLY ADMITTING they can chat on MSN with the devs whenever they want. I only ask you to please, OPEN YOUR EYES! Wait is this really what happen? Seriously.... if so I will be canceling my accounts immediately. And for the lamers no you cant have any of my stuff. If this is what REALLY happened, I have no desire to play a game built by cheaters for cheaters and I will be darn sure to discourage any friends of mine from ever paying to play such a game. Is there any screenies of what the bob member actually typed?
Eric Black	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:30:00 - [3670] i remember back to the first public outcry which was never resolved i remember all BOBs past achievements and success's now tainted with the word 'cheat' in a few years ill remember BOB not as the uber pvp alliance but as cheats who got want they wanted by nefarious means. you relise your painting about a 10th of the player base as cheats over the actions of maybe a dozen or so people? and im sure itll be said again, so ill beat yall to it. if im an alt, i work for ccp.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:32:00 - [3671] Originally by: DoctorGonzo Read the last paragraph of my original post again please, it's simple to understand - if we've cheated in anyway, then ban the cheats. If we haven't, then clear us of any wrong doing. QFT, and I'd be down with that. However, it's probably a tricky question to find out who all has MSN access to the CCP GM/Dev team, and who is involved with and/or knows about various other things that BOB at large is accused of cheating over (t20, POS bowling, etc). However, I never saw you make a response to that particular issue. So, what is your take on that? Should any group of players (BOB or otherwise, really) have direct access to the CCP Dev/GM teams ("and higher"), with the ability at all to talk about EvE? Is it cheating to "have the ear" of CCP via MSN for bugs, improvements, and firing of ISD reporters? And would you be OK with banning those have used it in such a manner via section 7.2 of the EULA? Would you further be OK with the permanent removal of the associated GM's/Devs from Eve as players? I personally consider any interaction by a group of players about Eve with CCP outside of the mechanics allowed for by the rules to be cheating. MSN is outside the rules. It is not a petition, it is not a forum post with a suggestion. Talk to the devs all you want on MSN - but do not talk about Eve. At all. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:33:00 - [3672] Originally by: Popsikle Hmm, its stated somewhere, if you search for it you can probably find it. that would require work on your part however. If a reporter enters the system, and is watching you, you have the right to ask them to leave. Thats the rules the reporters play by. On top of that, as a ISD member you are to never smack in local or insult anyone, which some say happened. How do you know all that? http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_10.asp "10.5 But havenÆt there been allegations of abuse of power by the volunteers? Allegations, yes, but upon investigation, nearly all of these cases are proven to be false. To those outside ISD, the program is mysterious and the object of frequent misconceptions about what the volunteers can and cannot do. These misconceptions make the volunteers an easy target. We take accusations of abuse of power or other wrongdoing by the volunteers very seriously and investigate each thoroughly. On the rare occasion when a volunteer has broken the rules, he has been swiftly dismissed." They don't say anything about the rules (since it's "mysterious"). I would then expect CCP not to have any problems quickly letting us know why that ISD reporter was fired so swiftly. Because they "take accusations of abuse of power or other wrongdoing by the volunteers very seriously and investigate each thoroughly.", they must have proper trail of events. I mean, I really really hope that investigation did not seriously last as long as that ISD guy said. Hope we'll find out soon enough. Couldn't find the rules, though, so I don't think any players are competent to guess if his behaviour was allright or not. Any other pointers to ISD rules are much appreciated. I really want to have ISD guy bump me.
MightyGuy	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:33:00 - [3673] http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:34:00 - [3674] I still think Remedial jumping ship is fishy. And I definatly think that this has to end now. I need to go sleep. If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:34:00 - [3675] Originally by: HankMurphy server numbers looked pretty good last night for a holiday weekend. Really? Why this post? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=526921 Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:36:00 - [3676] Originally by: Mileionaha Edited by: Mileionaha on 27/05/2007 23:22:08 I don't browse these forums much at all, but with the allegations I also read all these posts about how there won't be cover ups or 'spin', but then lo and behold, people post screenshots of the forums where people are talking about corruption, but if you go to that forum an hour or two later, all the posts are gone. No spin? No cover ups? BS. Here, example: vs http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=526921 This part hurts me the most, why has CCP sunk so low as to start cutting people off for voicing their concerns? As i said earlier, that guy CCP Admiral Crajgbfnjgbdkfar should be banned from TQ until the investigation gets to a conclusion be it right or wrong, righteous or just a plain cover up. And as i said earlier, you don't let an alleged mass murderer go free, you keep him confined until the investigation is completed, even if the judges let him walk free in the end. For all we know, he could be the one deleting those posts that could potentially hurt his image ( if there's any left ) and not a corrupt forum moderator. - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait: Dude. True amarr tank shields!
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:37:00 - [3677] CCP really needs to make everything public in these affairs. Anything BoB has ever accomplished is allready down the drain. People joke about BoB whenever they are brought up. Everything ever accomplished by BoB is and has been in question for a long time, its only now the evidence start trickeling in. They are more of a NPC fenonema to people then a actual alliance doing something worth while. And BoB needs to clear up their act and stop being so arrogant. I do love how they admit to having direct lines of comunications to CCP and then mock people for questioning the use of those lines.. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Khorian Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:38:00 - [3678] Originally by: eleuthereus 10. Do I agree with how this whole thing was handled by Goons? In all honesty, I just don't know. I can really see both sides of that debate. It was indeed an extreme action. Maybe too extreme. Perhaps far more dramatic that was needed. At the same time, many folks in GS just saw no other alternative. They truly did not. SO, they did what they felt they HAD to do to HELP the game -- not hurt it. As for me, personally, would I have done it this way? No. That's why I didn't participate in the threadnaught. I have only posted in this thread. And now I have said all I have to say. Goodnight, and good luck, I'll see you in space for what I hope will be many years to come. Even tho your motivation in this may be honorable, the way you handled it was not. You claim you like this game, but you also have to admit when you look at this thread that it has turned into a BoB/CCP hate propaganda fest and hurt EVEs reputation throughout the net alot. That will be hard to repair once the dust settles. I have yet to see any evidence that the contacts of a BoB member to CCP via MSN have lead to any wrongdoings. Apart from that, you can't expect people to break up friendships just because one of them is now working for CCP. Would you? And if they banned MSN there would be cellphones. You can't control those things. It's in the hands of CCP alone to make it clear to their employees that any form of preferring treatment for certain groups of players is wrong. Lastly, EVE is CCPs baby. They run it and we play it. If you say you can not trust them anymore there is nothing that can be done for you really. How CCP decides to handle things in EvE is up to them and they do not really have to tell you everything they do and why. Really, if you don't like it, don't play it. I have said it during the T20 incident too, it is CCPs own best interest to keep EVE a level and cheat free playing field. No conspiracy theories required, no cover ups required. CCP is running a business, EVE pays their employees and feeds their families. Why would they want to destroy that? Why can't you trust CCP in this? So, in order to come into a dialogue here, both sides have to make a step forward. I think it's called deescalation. Put down your forks and reach out your hands. I just wan't both sides understand each other. (I should have become a politician) If you complain about BoB members being rude and arrogant it might also be because wherever they go here they are met with hostility, even tho 99,999999% of them never did anything wrong. Because people talk about BoB when they throw around accusations, naturally BoB members feel personally offended. It's a natural reaction. I don't like being called a cheater, do you? --------------------- This is the signature
MightyGuy	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:39:00 - [3679] Originally by: Shadow Elk CCP really needs to make everything public in these affairs. Anything BoB has ever accomplished is allready down the drain. People joke about BoB whenever they are brought up. Everything ever accomplished by BoB is and has been in question for a long time, its only now the evidence start trickeling in. They are more of a NPC fenonema to people then a actual alliance doing something worth while. And BoB needs to clear up their act and stop being so arrogant. I do love how they admit to having direct lines of comunications to CCP and then mock people for questioning the use of those lines.. Honestly, I don't think I could trust CCP with whatever they make public. To me the possibility of it being modified is too great. That is why I have canceled my subscription.
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:40:00 - [3680] Originally by: DoctorGonzo I donÆt see CCP escaping from these same problems û this current drama bomb is more than likely a communication mess-up. GM 39 should have told GM 12 that he was about to do X, at which point the paying customer (corp 1063) should have been told that GM 39 was about to carry out task Y. ItÆs such a simple procedure to mess-up and the kind of mistake that happens in businesses all over the world every day. Just cause it's a frequent and reoccuring problem, doesn't mean it should be acceptable. The business world is a though one, as you should know. One small mistake could start a chain of events that literally destroys a corporation. In this case, a customer doesn't receive the product he's paying for, as it was never stated that CCP employees would abuse their rights and powers, nor that they would interfere with 0.0 politics and allow certain volunteers to rig events in favour of a small part of the memberbase. I wonder if we'd go to court, we would get our money back since CCP failed to deliver the product we paid for? Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:41:00 - [3681] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: HankMurphy server numbers looked pretty good last night for a holiday weekend. Really? Why this post? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=526921 Liang um, because i was replying to this Originally by: Malachon Draco I would like to know this too, because as far as I remember during the ASCN-BoB war, ISD reporters certainly didn't listen to anyone telling them to leave. The real point here that CCP should really take to heart is that they need to figure out how exactly a few incidents like the ones that started this thread can lead to a 140 page thread within 48 hours. If they ever wondered how much hostility and anger towards CCP exists among the playerbase, I think here they have their answer. which suggested the size of this thread is indicative to the amount of the player base upset about this?
phillie blunt State War Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:42:00 - [3682] Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Originally by: DoctorGonzo Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: DoctorGonzo bla bla bla. Me ubber, me wins. You lose you shut up. Lets face the truth. A good part of BoB cheats. Therefore you either are part of those who cheat and consequently won't confess here, or you are part of those who don't and won't know anything about it. You may try to fool yourself in order to inflate your ego conquered by the results of other people cheating, but in the end it means nothing. It is obvious your alliance is having help for a long time from GMs/Devs in many many ways. Everything you have is tainted by it, and no one will ever know how far you could get in your own legs. Read the last paragraph of my original post again please, it's simple to understand - if we've cheated in anyway, then ban the cheats. If we haven't, then clear us of any wrong doing. I'm afraid, after the endless stream of arrogant posts of BoB's leadership, it won't be that simple. You'll always be marked as cheaters, no matter what the outcome of the investigations. Sucks to be you right now. yeah US have a stupid president so all the people how live there are like their president? and I think it sucks more to be iron, they are great forum warriors, sad they are not the same fighting in the game
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:44:00 - [3683] ok khorian, but please at least admit that its wrong for bob to use thier direct ties to the devs to their advantage in game.... You ask for a leval playing field, well you guys currently have a tilted one.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:50:00 - [3684] Originally by: Popsikle How do you know all that? http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_10.asp "10.5 But havenÆt there been allegations of abuse of power by the volunteers? Allegations, yes, but upon investigation, nearly all of these cases are proven to be false. To those outside ISD, the program is mysterious and the object of frequent misconceptions about what the volunteers can and cannot do. These misconceptions make the volunteers an easy target. We take accusations of abuse of power or other wrongdoing by the volunteers very seriously and investigate each thoroughly. On the rare occasion when a volunteer has broken the rules, he has been swiftly dismissed." They don't say anything about the rules (since it's "mysterious"). I would then expect CCP not to have any problems quickly letting us know why that ISD reporter was fired so swiftly. Because they "take accusations of abuse of power or other wrongdoing by the volunteers very seriously and investigate each thoroughly.", they must have proper trail of events. I mean, I really really hope that investigation did not seriously last as long as that ISD guy said. Hope we'll find out soon enough. Couldn't find the rules, though, so I don't think any players are competent to guess if his behaviour was allright or not. Any other pointers to ISD rules are much appreciated. I really want to have ISD guy bump me. I think its somewhere on the forums, maybe a post 3-4 years old now. It might have been on IRC as well or maybe I asked helmar over MSN!? Maybe, I don't know. If you did, could you check the MSN logs and forward me the rules, I'd really like to have them. If not, never mind. I'll ask GMs for a copy. Thanks.
DoctorGonzo Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:50:00 - [3685] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: DoctorGonzo Read the last paragraph of my original post again please, it's simple to understand - if we've cheated in anyway, then ban the cheats. If we haven't, then clear us of any wrong doing. QFT, and I'd be down with that. However, it's probably a tricky question to find out who all has MSN access to the CCP GM/Dev team, and who is involved with and/or knows about various other things that BOB at large is accused of cheating over (t20, POS bowling, etc). However, I never saw you make a response to that particular issue. So, what is your take on that? Should any group of players (BOB or otherwise, really) have direct access to the CCP Dev/GM teams ("and higher"), with the ability at all to talk about EvE? Is it cheating to "have the ear" of CCP via MSN for bugs, improvements, and firing of ISD reporters? And would you be OK with banning those have used it in such a manner via section 7.2 of the EULA? Would you further be OK with the permanent removal of the associated GM's/Devs from Eve as players? I personally consider any interaction by a group of players about Eve with CCP outside of the mechanics allowed for by the rules to be cheating. MSN is outside the rules. It is not a petition, it is not a forum post with a suggestion. Talk to the devs all you want on MSN - but do not talk about Eve. At all. Liang They are difficult questions and I donÆt want to look like IÆm dodging them, however they should be directed to CCP, as it's their own internal procedures that are under scrutiny here and not the actions of the player base. My personal opinion - there are facilities for communicating with CCP to help develop the game and they should be used. However, I wouldnÆt begrudge someone I know well giving me a suggestion on how to improve something. IÆll give you another RL example û I have a customer who I know pretty well (I would call him a friend), who has given me countless suggestions for improving product and service, which IÆve implemented to the benefit of all my customers. Would I have had those suggestions if I didnÆt know him so well, IÆm not so sure. It is a tricky one and something that CCP are going to have to sort out. Basically weÆre asking them û what is your policy on employees talking to customers about the game outside of the forum and petition system?
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:50:00 - [3686] Originally by: DoctorGonzo If we've cheated in anyway, then ban the cheats. If we haven't, then clear us of any wrong doing. I have to ask you, DoctorGonzo, because i dont know it: Was the person who received and used the BPO's gathered by cheating banned? Please tell me. Thanks
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:51:00 - [3687] Originally by: Crux Australis Nonono, it sux more to be you ! SoonÖ in Jita and sent there by the 'pets' (they don't cheat right?) without even a fight ! And CCP wonders why people don't trust them? This guy threw unreal amount of insults some pages ago, and stated he doesn't care if he is banned. And he is not. Yet, people are getting banned for much less. Unreal.
Reangorette Bianie	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:54:00 - [3688] Tip of the Iceberg, Iceland! I'll take tin-foil hat status (can't get any in-game status without ... (well you know)) ----The Great Noob Draft Buy game cards/ sell for isk/ use isk to buy character/ join convenient corps/ elite status for noob/ take over POSes/ And anyone thinks this stuff is just all of it, or can be corrected? How long have the allegations been out there? Any official reply? (an investigation is not a reply -- a reply is a least the promise of swift action -- not "it's the weekend" -- lame and lamerrrr)
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:54:00 - [3689] Originally by: Khorian Even tho your motivation in this may be honorable, the way you handled it was not. You claim you like this game, but you also have to admit when you look at this thread that it has turned into a BoB/CCP hate propaganda fest and hurt EVEs reputation throughout the net alot. That will be hard to repair once the dust settles. BoB will not be lend an ounce of leniency due to your behaviour in the past 2-3 years. BoB has **ed of a lot of people in the past, and now it has come to bit you in the ass. Originally by:** Khorian If you complain about BoB members being rude and arrogant it might also be because wherever they go here they are met with hostility, even tho 99,999999% of them never did anything wrong. Because people talk about BoB when they throw around accusations, naturally BoB members feel personally offended. It's a natural reaction. I don't like being called a cheater, do you? BoB has been lead by oversized ego's for years now, who made the one arrogant post after the other, long before people had any reason to be hostile towards BoB members. If there's anyone to blame for how things are being handled now, blame the BoB leadership, especially people like SirMolle, Dianabolic, DB Preacher, DigitalCommunist, and the likes. Like I said in a different thread, you've brought this upon yourselves, now live with the consequences. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:55:00 - [3690] Originally by: Avon Originally by: MightyGuy Originally by: Avon Originally by: Mr Friendly To bring this back on track... the allegation is a member of BoB used his msn to directly and immediately contact a Dev who directly and immediately made an alteration in-game, to BoB's benefit. The allegation is not that they were talking about football. try to stay on point and don't setup straw men Have you actually read the thread / allegations? And then you talk about straw men? Superb. Wow are you crazy? Have YOU read the thread? You put together a straw man trying to change peoples perceptions of the GM's and BoB msn communication. The WHOLE ISSUE is that Daakon arrogantly told an ISD member to leave a system because he supposedly bumped a dread using standard warp-to procedure to watch a fight (not possible). He was then promptly banned when he refused to follow a BoB members order. Daakon, the BoB member allegedly had said in local "Well, I guess I'll have to call up my friends in CCP and get you dealt with." shortly before he was banned. BoB helps solidify the accusation by OPENLY ADMITTING they can chat on MSN with the devs whenever they want. I only ask you to please, OPEN YOUR EYES! Which part of the allegation was that "a member of BoB used his msn to directly and immediately contact a Dev who directly and immediately made an alteration in-game, to BoB's benefit."? I thought the allegation was that someone in BoB used MSN to report someone in ISD who was then removed from ISD? I didn't see any indication of who the BoB member was alleged to have MSN'd. Adding "facts" to increase the sensationalism doesn't actually make for a good case. wow. I'm having problems picking my jaw off of my chest so I can respond to your colossal arrogance. Flabergasted, really. I've read the whole damned thread, along with the alleged supporting documentation. The whole time I've been careful to use 'alleged' 'supposed' etc. Now, you want to poison the well by implying that I've been asserting all this as categorically true so that you can push aside my point without addressing the issues being debated? Wow. Of course nothing is proven yet. If it was, we'd already know, wouldn't we? I'd forgotten how great you are at 'spinning'. Bravo. Now address the point at hand or be quiet. However, Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Control Panel	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:55:00 - [3691] Originally by: Razor Jaxx 1. The Sharkbait issue : I have no reason to doubt Arkanon's findings on this one. A high-ranked member of DS1 hinted at a BPO lockdown issue, which could very well have been petitioned privately, triggering the whole process. Considering how long it took for the issue to be made public, and in what context (that of a political agenda pushed over by the Swarm, which is incidentally the parent alliance of DS1), I doubt that the original petitioner will ever come clean. So, who do I trust? The head of IA, who has nothing to gain and everything to lose in telling us lies, and whose job is under intense scrutiny by all parties involved? Or the goons, who are so obviously non-partial, as this thread demonstrates? 2. The RP Arc issue : There's rigging, and there's rigging. It is common in role-playing for game masters (here, the Aurora team) to establish a storyline, and stick to it. Players can participate in events on one side or the other, but for the storyline to progress and make sense, the end result is usually rigged towards a given faction. In order for chapter 2 of a story arc to take place, you have to rely on chapter 1 ending in an expected fashion. This, however, does not imply that the players on the winning faction side get better rewards than the players on the losing side. So rigging the story is not a problem in itself. Rigging the rewards is. 3. The ISD-IC incident : Probably the most volatile of the allegations. My personal take on this, is that Dread (Orange Species) made a typically off-handed, arrogant, e-peen-waving, I-m-one-of-the-leet-coldfront-kids comment. In short, typical BoB arrogance, which is this particular case pretty much fueled (and continues to fuel, in this very thread) the whole current Goon threadnaught. The point remains that the ISD reporter should have left the system when asked to, whether he bumped a dread or not is actually irrelevant. By refusing to comply, he put his own position in jeopardy. It is however also true that the ISD reporter's subsequent "execution" was rushed, and the penalty very harsh in regard to the actions he was supposedly guilty of. Was any external pressure applied? Were the proper channels followed? If yes, there must exist a trace of due petition process. If not, then there is really a problem regarding privileged connections. This is pretty much the best synopsis of the entire issue that I've read thus far. I'm glad to see that someone else sees it the same way I see it, and that I'm not completely insane. I've typed and deleted replies to this thread at least 5 times, not being able to find the right words. Disappointed, I gave up trying. I can only make one point of contention though, regarding the Sharkbait issue. It appears that it has been resolved to IA's belief, and I cannot know anymore about it, as they can't or won't provide any information about the petition that caused the GM's actions. The general feeling that I gathered was that this was at worst a red herring, trying to draw attention away from the big issue surrounding the ISD incident, and at best it was simply the easiest/quickest issue on the list to be resolved, or perhaps a little bit of both, as Damage Control kicked in. The second point regarding the Sharkbait issue is the question regarding why the DS1 CEO's petition asking why someone joined and gave themselves directorship deleted/ignored. I mean, if that was answered initially, you probably wouldn't have even seen this issue crop up after the entire ISD incident broke. It was definitely a weird enough incident to scramble to get answers to, but not worthy of an all out forum storm, but honestly I don't think it's what started this entire mess. Personally, I couldn't give two craps about this issue, as I believe if it had happened on its own it would have been resolved in an acceptable time frame. The ISD incident is the biggie though. I guess that's why we're all still here.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:55:00 - [3692] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Fluffernator ok khorian, but please at least admit that its wrong for bob to use thier direct ties to the devs to their advantage in game.... You ask for a leval playing field, well you guys currently have a tilted one. Of course it is wrong, but I also said I have yet to see proof of any wrongdoings through contact via MSN. You prolly wont see any proof either. Nobody ever thought you would be stupid enough to admit having MSN contact to Devs, thus no logs are saved. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
arghy steelwill GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:55:00 - [3693] Wow so you say they dident rig the events? PROOF OR STFU seriously you idiot we are calling you corrupt and your saying "nah we arent its cool!" i dont believe a word out of your mouth. You got caught red handed with T20 and now more proof is comeing up yet you continue to say your innocent..... you lost that ability after T20 mr arkanon if you want us to believe you show some fricken proof instead of spewing the standard coverup assurances. You delete the open letter thread ACCUSEING YOU OF BEING CORRUPT then say hey its cool we dont censor anyone!! even when you could have kept the thread open and moved it to the proper forums with your reponse. I remember when eledini was invited to goonfleet.com after rem met him at the fanfest- he was instantly yelled at and told he couldent talk to us, yet its perfectly fine to talk over MSN ON A PERSONAL BASIS WITH AN ALLIANCE THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN PROVEN TO HARBOR DEVS WHO MISUSE THEIR POWERS. This will continue happening until you idiots realize we arent just going to be quiet because you told us to, you have no trust left with all of EVE every word that comes out of your mouth will now need sustantial proof. CAUSE THATS WHAT CHEATING DEVS DOES TO YOUR GOD DAMN REP
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:55:00 - [3694] Originally by: Crux Australis Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu I'm afraid, after the endless stream of arrogant posts of BoB's leadership, it won't be that simple. You'll always be marked as cheaters, no matter what the outcome of the investigations. Sucks to be you right now. Nonono, it sux more to be you ! Soon™ in Jita and sent there by the 'pets' (they don't cheat right?) without even a fight ! Actually, Empire really seems like a nice place at this point. At least there the fighting field is even. That is, at least until your "friends" put you in the Concord role :)
DoctorGonzo Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:57:00 - [3695] Originally by: Richard Johannson Originally by: DoctorGonzo If we've cheated in anyway, then ban the cheats. If we haven't, then clear us of any wrong doing. I have to ask you, DoctorGonzo, because i dont know it: Was the person who received and used the BPO's gathered by cheating banned? Please tell me. Thanks He was a CCP employee, which is why it hurts so much. I believe CCP stripped him of his in game character, so yes. However he alone has tarnished the perception of BoB, one bad apple and all 2000 BoB accounts are to blame.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:58:00 - [3696] Originally by: Khorian ... I have yet to see any evidence that the contacts of a BoB member to CCP via MSN have lead to any wrongdoings. Apart from that, you can't expect people to break up friendships just because one of them is now working for CCP. Would you? And if they banned MSN there would be cellphones. You can't control those things. It's in the hands of CCP alone to make it clear to their employees that any form of preferring treatment for certain groups of players is wrong. ... I have said it during the T20 incident too, it is CCPs own best interest to keep EVE a level and cheat free playing field. No conspiracy theories required, no cover ups required. CCP is running a business, EVE pays their employees and feeds their families. Why would they want to destroy that? Why can't you trust CCP in this? First and foremost, the problem here comes from the MSN contact containing information about Eve. In the Information age, knowledge is power. Any information passed via MSN (or any other method not clearly defined in the rules) about Eve is unbalancing and making for an unfair advantage. Furthermore, there's one "demonstrated" instance of CCP firing an ISD reporter via MSN. Secondly, people have a history of doing stupid things for stupid reasons. It wouldn't be the first time that I've seen companies laid low by favoritism (and fraud in general). Now, with that said, the real issue here is that there is extra contact and "favoritism" happening here via means that are outside the rules. If any player asks a CCP employee about Eve by any method that is outside the rules, then the CCP employee has a responsibility to make note of that, and tell the player "No!" If any CCP employee acts on his own initiative to favor one group of players over another, then that employee should be fired. It is as simple as that. This is not a "good ole boys" club, it is a business. If any player asks a CCP employee about Eve by any method that is outside of the rules, then the player is cheating, regardless of what the CCP employee answers. This player should be banned from Eve. In summary: any contact between CCP and any group of players should be strictly inside the rules. If the devs play the game (and they should), they should not have GM/Dev access on TQ. Furthermore, the only people who should know who their accounts are, is the IA dept. Absolutely no privileged information should pass on from the Dev/GM to normal players, and it is the Internal Affars department's responsibility to see that this is so. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 00:59:00 - [3697] Originally by: DoctorGonzo Originally by: Richard Johannson Originally by: DoctorGonzo If we've cheated in anyway, then ban the cheats. If we haven't, then clear us of any wrong doing. I have to ask you, DoctorGonzo, because i dont know it: Was the person who received and used the BPO's gathered by cheating banned? Please tell me. Thanks He was a CCP employee, which is why it hurts so much. I believe CCP stripped him of his in game character, so yes. However he alone has tarnished the perception of BoB, one bad apple and all 2000 BoB accounts are to blame. Arent there only 200 BoB accounts and the rest are shared? :P Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
ZeroForce	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:00:00 - [3698] well put gonzo and also correct too many things happen in bob's favour alot
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:02:00 - [3699] Originally by: HankMurphy um, because i was replying to this which suggested the size of this thread is indicative to the amount of the player base upset about this? Everyone I know in game is talking about this, and is upset by it. Some of them even posted here. I'd say there's a very sizable percentage of the community that both knows about this, and is upset by it. Don't make it sound like there's a few goonies making this whole thread - because there is most assuredly a large percentage of the Eve population that is watching, if not posting! Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
arghy steelwill GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:02:00 - [3700] Arent there only 200 BoB accounts and the rest are shared? :P No the titan pilots stayed awake for 48 hours all 3 of them(how hard is it to monitor IP's on the titan char and trace them to dif chars and simply ban your buddy CCP?)
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:03:00 - [3701] Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina And as i said earlier, you don't let an alleged mass murderer go free, you keep him confined until the investigation is completed, even if the judges let him walk free in the end. I accuse you of using a completely undetectable client hack to give you an ingame advantage. There. Now you should be unable to play Eve forever, because your innocence can never be proven. You see how that works? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:05:00 - [3702] Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu BoB will not be lend an ounce of leniency due to your behaviour in the past 2-3 years. BoB has **ed of a lot of people in the past, and now it has come to bit you in the ass.... BoB has been lead by oversized ego's for years now, who made the one arrogant post after the other, long before people had any reason to be hostile towards BoB members. If there's anyone to blame for how things are being handled now, blame the BoB leadership, especially people like SirMolle, Dianabolic, DB Preacher, DigitalCommunist, and the likes. Like I said in a different thread, you've brought this upon yourselves, now live with the consequences. wtf does that have to do with this thread? because bob made ppl angry, its ok to to launch a smear campaign against both them and CCP? because they were successful and arrogant in their success? don't hold back, don't stop for evidence or investigation or anything, just keep going! JUST because they are bob? Thats the sickest part of all of this.** Almost no one cares WHAT happened, almost no one cares about if there was or wasn't any actual misconduct. All they need to hear is 'a bob guy knows a ccp guy in RL'. Thats good enough for them. For gods sakes you can cut the political overtones in this thread w/ a knife! THAT ALONE shows you how politically motivated all this is. This isn't about MSN, or an ISD reporter or a dev repairing a pos. (Atleast not for 95% of the posters in here. ) Its about ppl taking out their frustration against an entity they failed to defeat in game, in an out of game venue. Its about some sore losers creating a witch hunt to save face.
ZeroForce	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:07:00 - [3703] isnt it funny how bob is transparently guilty? if you TRULY WERE innocent you wouldnt be spamming the forums with your utter nonsense
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:07:00 - [3704] Originally by: ZeroForce isnt it funny how bob is transparently guilty? if you TRULY WERE innocent you wouldnt be spamming the forums with your utter nonsense if they truly were guilty, it wouldn't take 150 pages to PROVE it
Morgain dVher Minmatar The Rat Pack	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:08:00 - [3705] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Liang Nuren I am a software developer, and there are strict rules about who I am and am not allowed to talk to about my work. Imagine that. I'm a software developer too.... My boss encourages me to talk to our customers, and develop good relationships with them. It helps our business because we get more information about what our customers need and wants. If a customer points out an error in our software or how we handle it, even though it not be through regular channels, we're happy about it, because it helps us make our product better, for the good of all our customers. If a customer asks me about details for another customer or asks me to harm another customer, I would refuse, as I'm sure 99.9% of all people would (CCP included)... See what I'm getting at? Having good relations and good information exchange with your customers is a GOOD thing, unless abused (and reporting on the inappropriate actions of an ISD member doesn't seem like abuse to me)! But does your boss encourage you to only talk to some of your customers and not others, even though all of your customers pay the same thing? And there is an assumption of facts not in evidence here - no one has shown that there was any bumping by the ISD person in question. And the arrogant way that BoB handled the matter in local, if true, would have gotten any one's hackles up. Then to say, well we don't need to bother with the standard protocols, I'll just call me CCP bud . . . does nothing to help the trust issues that have developed as a result of past events. I agree with you about the choice of laws section of the EULA, though limitations of liability clauses are a bit more iffy. Nonetheless, I would not want to be the attorney going in front of a busy - likely 60 year old - judge and saying we want a remedy for a computer game. Judge likely would sanction the attorney in question or wasting his time. I also would like to say that BoB's three 8 hour a day shifts of arguing, spinning and berating this issue and the players commenting has done more to further hurt CCP's credibility than anything Goon might have done otherwise. It make CCP and you look complicit. At this point, no matter what the truth is the BoB CCP connection has been branded into the game. Somewhere in this post Dark Shikari made a statement that CCP needs to go from a group of guys in a garage to a real corporation. This is probably the most insightful post written. CCP needs to grow up from a corporate stand point. Trust has been destroyed in this game. And BoB members posting every third thread is making it that much harder to fix. Think about it. we do not, and never have tolarated to even a slight degree, any cheating within EVE. We are much too fully aware of the possible consequences of allowing any cheating to go on among the GM's.
Sasakisan	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:09:00 - [3706] The more I think about it, the more I feel that a long-term solution to this problem may need to involve changing how game company employees are permitted to play the game.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:09:00 - [3707] Originally by: DoctorGonzo They are difficult questions and I donÆt want to look like IÆm dodging them, however they should be directed to CCP, as it's their own internal procedures that are under scrutiny here and not the actions of the player base. Fair enough ... and they are hard questions. Originally by: DoctorGonzo My personal opinion - there are facilities for communicating with CCP to help develop the game and they should be used. However, I wouldnÆt begrudge someone I know well giving me a suggestion on how to improve something. IÆll give you another RL example û I have a customer who I know pretty well (I would call him a friend), who has given me countless suggestions for improving product and service, which IÆve implemented to the benefit of all my customers. Would I have had those suggestions if I didnÆt know him so well, IÆm not so sure. I completely understand - however, there are avenues of communication set up for such a method. Even email is more appropriate for submitting ideas than MSN. Most companies I know monitor and keep emails for record keeping purposes (and to avoid scandals like this one now). CCP should keep all "personal" contact with players on a "personal" level - do not speak about Eve on a level that can't be easily replicated in game. Originally by: DoctorGonzo It is a tricky one and something that CCP are going to have to sort out. Basically weÆre asking them û what is your policy on employees talking to customers about the game outside of the forum and petition system? A very well reasoned post - I applaud you, even if I slightly disagree. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:10:00 - [3708] Originally by: Mr Friendly Originally by: Avon Which part of the allegation was that "a member of BoB used his msn to directly and immediately contact a Dev who directly and immediately made an alteration in-game, to BoB's benefit."? I thought the allegation was that someone in BoB used MSN to report someone in ISD who was then removed from ISD? I didn't see any indication of who the BoB member was alleged to have MSN'd. Adding "facts" to increase the sensationalism doesn't actually make for a good case. wow. I'm having problems picking my jaw off of my chest so I can respond to your colossal arrogance. Flabergasted, really. I've read the whole damned thread, along with the alleged supporting documentation. The whole time I've been careful to use 'alleged' 'supposed' etc. Now, you want to poison the well by implying that I've been asserting all this as categorically true so that you can push aside my point without addressing the issues being debated? Wow. Of course nothing is proven yet. If it was, we'd already know, wouldn't we? I'd forgotten how great you are at 'spinning'. Bravo. Now address the point at hand or be quiet. However, I don't think you understood what I posted. I didn't say you were claiming that allegations were fact, but rather the allegations that you are claiming were made are not the same as the allegations that were actually made. You are changing the allegations in order to make them even more dramatic. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:10:00 - [3709] Edited by: Deus Ex''Machina on 28/05/2007 01:11:07 Originally by: Celestal Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina And as i said earlier, you don't let an alleged mass murderer go free, you keep him confined until the investigation is completed, even if the judges let him walk free in the end. jesus get a grip dude , have a valium or a cup of tea or a lie down or have a ** if you think that anything in this game or on these forums warrants that statement of your`s then you are either hysterical of have serious mental issues Really now, would YOU feel all right after being banned seconds after a BoB guy screamed in local to ~leave~ , threatening to call his ~CCP friends~ to ban you? Also, would YOU feel alright if the who banned you, without one reason given, would be allowed to continue being a gm/dev/whatever he is? Incidentally he's performing ~damage control~ on the forums by deleting the posts of people voicing their concerns, including this "Widespread corruption, much of which is centered around yourself, have people canceling their accounts in droves" a reply by a fellow forum dweller to one of Admiral Crajndgsasdadf's posts. He's like shooting the granny for screaming "murderer! murderer!" on the street and the cops just watch, it's ridiculous! - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait*: Dude. True amarr tank shields!*
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:10:00 - [3710] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu BoB will not be lend an ounce of leniency due to your behaviour in the past 2-3 years. BoB has **ed of a lot of people in the past, and now it has come to bit you in the ass.... BoB has been lead by oversized ego's for years now, who made the one arrogant post after the other, long before people had any reason to be hostile towards BoB members. If there's anyone to blame for how things are being handled now, blame the BoB leadership, especially people like SirMolle, Dianabolic, DB Preacher, DigitalCommunist, and the likes. Like I said in a different thread, you've brought this upon yourselves, now live with the consequences. wtf does that have to do with this thread? because bob made ppl angry, its ok to to launch a smear campaign against both them and CCP? because they were successful and arrogant in their success? don't hold back, don't stop for evidence or investigation or anything, just keep going! JUST because they are bob? Thats the sickest part of all of this. Almost no one cares WHAT happened, almost no one cares about if there was or wasn't any actual misconduct. All they need to hear is 'a bob guy knows a ccp guy in RL'. Thats good enough for them. For gods sakes you can cut the political overtones in this thread w/ a knife! THAT ALONE shows you how politically motivated all this is. This isn't about MSN, or an ISD reporter or a dev repairing a pos. (Atleast not for 95% of the posters in here. ) Its about ppl taking out their frustration against an entity they failed to defeat in game, in an out of game venue. Its about some sore losers creating a witch hunt to save face. err, maybe it's just a bunch of paying customers tired of paying for a game that may be fundamentally unequal? The first 80 or so pages (lol, what a monster) were full of outraged people talking about fairness and equal opportunity. It's getting more political now, but we're all about talked out, and so only our flames remain ;) Originally by:** Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:10:00 - [3711] Edited by: Astarte Nosferatu on 28/05/2007 01:09:41 Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu BoB will not be lend an ounce of leniency due to your behaviour in the past 2-3 years. BoB has **ed of a lot of people in the past, and now it has come to bit you in the ass.... BoB has been lead by oversized ego's for years now, who made the one arrogant post after the other, long before people had any reason to be hostile towards BoB members. If there's anyone to blame for how things are being handled now, blame the BoB leadership, especially people like SirMolle, Dianabolic, DB Preacher, DigitalCommunist, and the likes. Like I said in a different thread, you've brought this upon yourselves, now live with the consequences. wtf does that have to do with this thread? because bob made ppl angry, its ok to to launch a smear campaign against both them and CCP? because they were successful and arrogant in their success? don't hold back, don't stop for evidence or investigation or anything, just keep going! JUST because they are bob? Thats the sickest part of all of this. Almost no one cares WHAT happened, almost no one cares about if there was or wasn't any actual misconduct. All they need to hear is 'a bob guy knows a ccp guy in RL'. Thats good enough for them. I'm not approving it, I'm merely stating how a lot of people see BoB. It's called reality. Originally by:** Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:11:00 - [3712] Edited by: Victor Vision on 28/05/2007 01:10:32 Originally by: Etho Demerzel Lets face the truth. A good part of BoB cheats.... OK, enough is enough. Seriously I am getting sick of this kind of posts. If you want to sling mud then go to the CAOD forums, its all fun and e-peen waving around there. Been there, done that. (And might well do it again ) But this thread is way too serious for flat out generalizations like that. Some in BoB may cheat. Some in BoB may get preferential treatment. Currently I wont provide BoB with the fun of fighting them, because I am not sure about this. But all of the BoB members I have talked to in this thread say they are against favoritism, and I happen to believe those who explicitly stated this in this thread. Instead of throwing around insults you should try to be constructive in trying to help find a solution, so favoritism does not happen, trust is restored, and we can go back to having fun. Same goes out to the Goon posters and BoB posters who think this thread is the right place for flaming. After watching this thread since it originated (of course did not read all posts, just too many of them ), I am seeing that all reasonable posters from all sides basically agree on the main issues. - no dev cheating - MSN for out of game matters only, in-game matters via official channels - no dev favoritism - trust in CCP needs to be restored Another issue that comes up again and again in this thread is if devs should be able to play on TQ or not. There is no consensus on this question. There is good arguments pro, and there is good arguments contra. I am undecided in my opinion on this. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Devious Syn	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:14:00 - [3713] Edited by: Devious Syn on 28/05/2007 01:14:11 Ya know when I started playing this game years ago, I really liked it. After the first BoB scandal, I thought to myself even if it was true, so what, **** happens. After the second scandal, I thought to myself, hey no ones perfect. After the third scandal, I thought, hey people are just making up all these things no ONE alliance could possibly have all these connections to a development team, come on.. Now we are on scandal 5400, I'm think I'm done, -watching this community be ripped to shreds because of all the lies and distrust caused by the development team -watching one alliance completely dominate every engagement and thinking wow, they must really be good players to find out they were actually cheating. Not by abusing game mechanics, but being given the game by the developers So yea I'm done, I wont even get a answer to my petition I filed almost 2 weeks ago , and I was thinking with all the "internal investigations" CCP has going on, its no wonder no ones left to do anything else but in reality what I needed was a DEV on my MSN contacts DOHHHH!!! Thanks CCP for a great 2 years REALLY sorry it has to end like this, but I dont like thinking other folks are getting more for their $15 bucks a month than what I get for it. Accounts Canceled.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:14:00 - [3714] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: ZeroForce isnt it funny how bob is transparently guilty? if you TRULY WERE innocent you wouldnt be spamming the forums with your utter nonsense if they truly were guilty, it wouldn't take 150 pages to PROVE it Actually it is 150 pages of arguing the accusation. Only CCP can prove what has happened or not happened ingame(and as they are part of the accusations what ever they publish is tainted), BoB confessed to having MSN relations with CCP so I guess.. Well.. "I did not have MSN relations with that woman, Miss Dianabolic." is pretty much out of the question now. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:16:00 - [3715] New Thread regarding Sharkbait's Issue here Another thread regarding allegations of Event rigging here Please keep the discussion regarding those issues in their respective threads. This will help kieron and Arkanon answer questions and monitor replies/comments/concerns ___ Questions/Complaints/Opinions/Bree \| Forum Rules \| Our Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER

Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:17:00 - [3716] Originally by: Victor Vision After watching this thread since it originated (of course did not read all posts, just too many of them ), I am seeing that all reasonable posters from all sides basically agree on the main issues. - no dev cheating - MSN for out of game matters only, in-game matters via official channels - no dev favoritism - trust in CCP needs to be restored Agree Quote: Another issue that comes up again and again in this thread is if devs should be able to play on TQ or not. There is no consensus on this question. There is good arguments pro, and there is good arguments contra. I am undecided in my opinion on this. I don't think road construction workers should be banned from driving on the roads they repair, and I would be uncomfortable flying on a plane that the makers will not use. There isn't always a conflict of interest, sometimes it is in the customers interest that those who provide a service for a living would also be happy to use that service. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:18:00 - [3717] Originally by: Eldo Davip New Thread regarding Sharkbait's Issue here Another thread regarding allegations of Event rigging here Please keep the discussion regarding those issues in their respective threads. This will help kieron and Arkanon answer questions and monitor replies/comments/concerns Where do we line up to get Dev/GM MSN adressess? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:18:00 - [3718] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Mr Friendly Originally by: Avon Which part of the allegation was that "a member of BoB used his msn to directly and immediately contact a Dev who directly and immediately made an alteration in-game, to BoB's benefit."? I thought the allegation was that someone in BoB used MSN to report someone in ISD who was then removed from ISD? I didn't see any indication of who the BoB member was alleged to have MSN'd. Adding "facts" to increase the sensationalism doesn't actually make for a good case. wow. I'm having problems picking my jaw off of my chest so I can respond to your colossal arrogance. Flabergasted, really. I've read the whole damned thread, along with the alleged supporting documentation. The whole time I've been careful to use 'alleged' 'supposed' etc. Now, you want to poison the well by implying that I've been asserting all this as categorically true so that you can push aside my point without addressing the issues being debated? Wow. Of course nothing is proven yet. If it was, we'd already know, wouldn't we? I'd forgotten how great you are at 'spinning'. Bravo. Now address the point at hand or be quiet. However, I don't think you understood what I posted. I didn't say you were claiming that allegations were fact, but rather the allegations that you are claiming were made are not the same as the allegations that were actually made. You are changing the allegations in order to make them even more dramatic. hmm, seemed to me the poster I was responding to was talking about msn content and the appropriateness of it, which sprang from the allegations that BoB (orange species, I think) used their msn contacts to get the isd reporter fired by a DB dev by the name of Adm Chanblahblahblah/and implied he would get Eris Discordia to lay the smack down. Perhaps you haven't read the suppossed chat logs etc? They seem dramatic enough all by themselves. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:20:00 - [3719] Originally by: Flaming Lemming Note: CCP has un-stickied this thread. Might as well delete it... This is not an issue that concerns the whole EVE community one bit and it should not be linked in the EVE news... Also since the odds are that the devs do not read this, the various suggestions/points of view or genuine intelligent remarks that have been noted here will just wash away, swept under the rug! ...shame - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait: Dude. True amarr tank shields!
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:20:00 - [3720] Originally by: Flaming Lemming Note: CCP has un-stickied this thread. That's really sad, because it reeks even more of whitewash and cover-ups. I hope they re-sticky it... I sent an email to the mods asking them to. I'd really rather see this fixed than find a new game to play. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Elienee	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:21:00 - [3721] This is the ultimate truth: Whatever happens, players guilty or not, this thread is meant from CCP side to let ppl blow out their steam. In the end they hope players will get annoyed/bored or whatever, and will leave this behind. There is NO WAY they will admit anything wrong, and if they punish some of their staff, its no good policy (in real life) to make it public. If you want to get even, make a HUGE front towards BOB and harrash them forever, and in the progress **** of the buddies to CCP staff members As for me, Im loggin off and seeling my ISK on ebay
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:23:00 - [3722] Originally by: Shadow Elk Originally by: Eldo Davip New Thread regarding Sharkbait's Issue here Another thread regarding allegations of Event rigging here Please keep the discussion regarding those issues in their respective threads. This will help kieron and Arkanon answer questions and monitor replies/comments/concerns Where do we line up to get Dev/GM MSN adressess? /signed My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:23:00 - [3723] Originally by: Avon I don't think road construction workers should be banned from driving on the roads they repair, and I would be uncomfortable flying on a plane that the makers will not use. Indeed. However, the road construction workers don't have a special lane they let their friend's use. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
KIZERIAN Caldari SKORPION CORP Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:24:00 - [3724] Originally by: Flaming Lemming Note: CCP has un-stickied this thread. First they unstick it - Then they lock it - Then it just drifts away - Just like the last time. Kiz
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:25:00 - [3725] Originally by: Elienee If you want to get even, make a HUGE front towards BOB and harrash them forever, and in the progress ** of the buddies to CCP staff members You know, we ( me and my friends ) can't ... Some BoB higher up will just call his gm friend on MSN to swing the ban stick a bit. In reality you can't do squat if the gm's are corrupt. - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait*: Dude. True amarr tank shields!*
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:27:00 - [3726] Originally by: KIZERIAN Originally by: Flaming Lemming Note: CCP has un-stickied this thread. First they unstick it - Then they lock it - Then it just drifts away - Just like the last time. Kiz well, it was fun, anyways. Heaps more fun than Eve usually is, tbh. Kinda sad. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:27:00 - [3727] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Avon I don't think road construction workers should be banned from driving on the roads they repair, and I would be uncomfortable flying on a plane that the makers will not use. Indeed. However, the road construction workers don't have a special lane they let their friend's use. Plane makers don't get to sit in the pilot's cabin when travelling, because that's prohibited - unless they're good buddies with pilots. Uhm, wait a moment...
Comrade Fox Gallente The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:28:00 - [3728] Note: as usual my corperation/alliance has nothing to do with my post, i'm sure if any of them have an oppinion I wouldn't be the one to telly ou what it is. In all honesty, I don't see anything more anyone can add. quoting and re-quoting multiple posts, not adding to the thread at all while reitterating previously stated opinions, facts, conjecture, circumstance, accusation, excuses, etc isn't making any diffrence at this point. Would a dev please close/lock this thread? (available for viewing only). This thread has become nothing more than a flame war past page 30 or so. please save yourself some workload so you can fix the problems at hand. Thank you, Fox שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהינו י-ה-ו-ה אחד
Oohwha Schipperman Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:29:00 - [3729] Originally by: Khorian Originally by: Fluffernator ok khorian, but please at least admit that its wrong for bob to use thier direct ties to the devs to their advantage in game.... You ask for a leval playing field, well you guys currently have a tilted one. Of course it is wrong, but I also said I have yet to see proof of any wrongdoings through contact via MSN. Khorian, you seem like a reasonably bright guy, so I'm surprised you still don't get this: the contacts through MSN are the wrongdoing, if by using MSN and their friendship with CCP employees Bobbits seek to get prompt service outside the petition system. And Dianabolic has already admitted that's what happened.
Caldari90210	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:30:00 - [3730] THE THREADNOUGHT IS DRIFTING !!!!
DoctorGonzo Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:30:00 - [3731] Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Originally by: DoctorGonzo I donÆt see CCP escaping from these same problems û this current drama bomb is more than likely a communication mess-up. GM 39 should have told GM 12 that he was about to do X, at which point the paying customer (corp 1063) should have been told that GM 39 was about to carry out task Y. ItÆs such a simple procedure to mess-up and the kind of mistake that happens in businesses all over the world every day. Just cause it's a frequent and reoccuring problem, doesn't mean it should be acceptable. The business world is a though one, as you should know. One small mistake could start a chain of events that literally destroys a corporation. In this case, a customer doesn't receive the product he's paying for, as it was never stated that CCP employees would abuse their rights and powers, nor that they would interfere with 0.0 politics and allow certain volunteers to rig events in favour of a small part of the memberbase. I wonder if we'd go to court, we would get our money back since CCP failed to deliver the product we paid for? I'm not saying it's acceptable, I'm saying it's understandable - two completely different things. Again, and I know I keep saying it, if some of our members have cheated in anyway or have had preferential treatment then it needs to be sorted out. If we haven't, then we need to be cleared of said accusations.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:33:00 - [3732] Originally by: Avon I don't think road construction workers should be banned from driving on the roads they repair, and I would be uncomfortable flying on a plane that the makers will not use. There isn't always a conflict of interest, sometimes it is in the customers interest that those who provide a service for a living would also be happy to use that service. No offense, but I don't think this is a good example. Road workers driving on the road they work on does not help them improve the road. Nor do plane designers make a plane better from flying in it. Heck, some airline engineers may even be afraid to fly. Since GM's "Police" the game, it would be more like the police pulling over some people, but not other's because they are good friends with them. In addition the police would be telling these people how to speed and get away with it, or what to say when pulled over. This happens in real life although I don't believe it should. In terms of game development, it is impossible for a dev to be completely unbiased/non-partial when playing an in-game entity that has to deal with in-game politics. Reguardless of whether they would or would not abuse the ability, the fact that the opportunity is there is more than enough to make me uncomfortable.
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:34:00 - [3733] Edited by: Astarte Nosferatu on 28/05/2007 01:34:15 Originally by: DoctorGonzo Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Originally by: DoctorGonzo I donÆt see CCP escaping from these same problems û this current drama bomb is more than likely a communication mess-up. GM 39 should have told GM 12 that he was about to do X, at which point the paying customer (corp 1063) should have been told that GM 39 was about to carry out task Y. ItÆs such a simple procedure to mess-up and the kind of mistake that happens in businesses all over the world every day. Just cause it's a frequent and reoccuring problem, doesn't mean it should be acceptable. The business world is a though one, as you should know. One small mistake could start a chain of events that literally destroys a corporation. In this case, a customer doesn't receive the product he's paying for, as it was never stated that CCP employees would abuse their rights and powers, nor that they would interfere with 0.0 politics and allow certain volunteers to rig events in favour of a small part of the memberbase. I wonder if we'd go to court, we would get our money back since CCP failed to deliver the product we paid for? I'm not saying it's acceptable, I'm saying it's understandable - two completely different things. Again, and I know I keep saying it, if some of our members have cheated in anyway or have had preferential treatment then it needs to be sorted out. If we haven't, then we need to be cleared of said accusations. And getting cleared of said accusations will be difficult, as the only ones being able to clear BoB's reputation are CCP, and they are accused of misconduct just as you guys. Even if CCP clears BoB of said accusations, the majority will not believe it as it will be coming from CCP, who are now tainted as being corrupt and biased. Only things that could possibly help you to clear your reputation would be a major reform at CCP and time, lots of time. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:35:00 - [3734] Create a frecking thread on the MSN-scandal too and sticky it high up and let it sit there. I pay as much as anyone else and should get the same lines of communications as anyone else, the same opportunity to press my matters. Its a joke that you ignore this matter... "Devs need friends too." For gods sake.. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:37:00 - [3735] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 28/05/2007 01:40:24 Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 28/05/2007 01:39:39 Just wanted to say, if all of these issues are resolved with denials, even if that is because they're simply not true, and there isn't any change in the way CCP operates, I'm done. The trust issue needs to be addressed in a change in the way business is done. That means somebody besides Kieron's insulting and semi-English literate rear doing something MORE than posting condescending reassurances. (On that subject, would you guys hire someone with a degree in public relations? Please?) I know some of your short-sighted simpletons think that customers leaving is a good thing, and I'm glad to have made you happy. I'm sure everyone else doesn't want to hear about how happy you are, though- you already expressed the sentiment with everyone else who's quitting.
CrestoftheStars Perkone	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:38:00 - [3736] all of this just makes you wonder if it's really worth it... ___________________________________________ Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:39:00 - [3737] Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Avon I don't think road construction workers should be banned from driving on the roads they repair, and I would be uncomfortable flying on a plane that the makers will not use. There isn't always a conflict of interest, sometimes it is in the customers interest that those who provide a service for a living would also be happy to use that service. No offense, but I don't think this is a good example. Road workers driving on the road they work on does not help them improve the road. Nor do plane designers make a plane better from flying in it. Heck, some airline engineers may even be afraid to fly. Since GM's "Police" the game, it would be more like the police pulling over some people, but not other's because they are good friends with them. In addition the police would be telling these people how to speed and get away with it, or what to say when pulled over. This happens in real life although I don't believe it should. In terms of game development, it is impossible for a dev to be completely unbiased/non-partial when playing an in-game entity that has to deal with in-game politics. Reguardless of whether they would or would not abuse the ability, the fact that the opportunity is there is more than enough to make me uncomfortable. I am sure its possible because I would hope the developers of other games, are able to play the game, in order to balance said game. Granted Eve is sort of different, but thats besides the point, to claim its not possible is just wrong.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:43:00 - [3738] Khorian: Of course it is wrong, but I also said I have yet to see proof of any wrongdoings through contact via MSN. And how do you suggest should the normal Joe get that PROOF if the cheating is between one Alliance and the keeper of the PROOF's ?
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:44:00 - [3739] Originally by: WhitePhantom Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Avon I don't think road construction workers should be banned from driving on the roads they repair, and I would be uncomfortable flying on a plane that the makers will not use. There isn't always a conflict of interest, sometimes it is in the customers interest that those who provide a service for a living would also be happy to use that service. No offense, but I don't think this is a good example. Road workers driving on the road they work on does not help them improve the road. Nor do plane designers make a plane better from flying in it. Heck, some airline engineers may even be afraid to fly. Since GM's "Police" the game, it would be more like the police pulling over some people, but not other's because they are good friends with them. In addition the police would be telling these people how to speed and get away with it, or what to say when pulled over. This happens in real life although I don't believe it should. In terms of game development, it is impossible for a dev to be completely unbiased/non-partial when playing an in-game entity that has to deal with in-game politics. Reguardless of whether they would or would not abuse the ability, the fact that the opportunity is there is more than enough to make me uncomfortable. I am sure its possible because I would hope the developers of other games, are able to play the game, in order to balance said game. Granted Eve is sort of different, but thats besides the point, to claim its not possible is just wrong. Well then have them in their own corp/alliance..... Or perhaps it's time to shard the server...
New Hampshire Caldari Antares Frontier The Fifth Race	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:50:00 - [3740] Since all these accusations seem to surround BoB, the things I would personally want to know are these: (1) How many active players are in BoB v. the alliances opposing BoB? (2) How many BPOs and POSs does BoB/BoB players own? How many total are in existence? (3) How much ISK is in the hands of BoB/Bob players? How much ISK is currently in circulation among all players? We already know that at least one dev has been willing to cheat on behalf of BoB. That is established fact. It is also established fact that CCP claims that the cheating was limited. The answers to those three questions would help me decide for myself whether or not the cheating was truly limited.
SterlingReps	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:52:00 - [3741] Dorogoy Iron McFly. Dobro pozhalovatÆ sya ôWelcom to complain and commentàö What life and death may be to a turkey is not my business but the soul and body...the ties that bind us all my enemy and your enemy make us all friends of the moment. LetÆs call that enemy by name Band of Brothers let this enemy know that 'Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and stablisheth a city by iniquity! Hab 2:12 BOB wants all of us, eventually and we have all of us together and I say why not give BOB what it wants? A wrong is unredressed when retribution overtakes its redresser. It is equally unredressed when the avenger fails to make himself felt as such to him who has done the wrong. In less ôHot Airö speak, a Call to Arms. Yes I know it has been played out numerous times before but consider doing something different in order to achieve a different result. Attrition is battle beyond the point of which you enemy has no stomach to continue. The soft underbelly, soft periphery alliances held in servitude chains clamoring to be free if onlyà The lightly defended entrails deep within with only connective tissue to hold them in place. The right targets, the indefensible ones. If we can avoid missing the mark, if we can avoid the direct confrontation, the greater the glory the greater the devilÆs cry. This is the stuff of empireÆs fall. We all of us can take our place among the stars rather than petition for that seat. we can teach as has been taught to others before that, " Even if it's free, you can always buy it cheaper".
Hsin	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:53:00 - [3742] Edited by: Hsin on 28/05/2007 01:51:53 It's funny how much this investigation is like the last one. They denied everything for weeks until the pressure finally forced T20 to admit he and Bob were cheaters. And the result? Nothing - more cheating more of the same. Anyone want to take bets on what happens this time? (nothing)
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:55:00 - [3743] Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Edited by: Astarte Nosferatu on 28/05/2007 01:47:09 Exactly because there is no proof Dev's are giving away valuable EvE intel through MSN is enough reason why they should not be talking to paying customers on MSN. For all we know BoB might have gotten loads of advice from CCP other paying customers didn't have access to, and CCP wouldn't be able to be held accountable as there would be no way to prove it. If they aren't guilty, they should have known better. It's their own fault. Well, we already have proof Dev's posing as players have given valuable information to BoB (and who knows who else). (T20/Ishos Rerajan Incident). The medium wasn't as controversial as direct Dev access via MSN. The crime is no less heinous.
ssorion Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:55:00 - [3744] Originally by: Hsin Anyone want to take bets on what happens this time? 10m ISK on that they will deny everything.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:56:00 - [3745] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 28/05/2007 01:55:37 Originally by: Hsin Edited by: Hsin on 28/05/2007 01:51:53 It's funny how much this investigation is like the last one. They denied everything for weeks until the pressure finally forced T20 to admit he and Bob were cheaters. And the result? Nothing - more cheating more of the same. Anyone want to take bets on what happens this time? (nothing) We'll be told that pretty much nothing is wrong and CCP will use that as an excuse to avoid any sort of restructuring to prevent partiality or the appearance of partiality. You can already see how much credence this is being given by Kieron snapping at the goons in the other thread. If you can't maintain your temper with them at a crucial moment like this, God only knows what you'll feel comfortable letting slide when the community's temper calms a bit.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:58:00 - [3746] Originally by: Hsin Edited by: Hsin on 28/05/2007 01:51:53 It's funny how much this investigation is like the last one. They denied everything for weeks until the pressure finally forced T20 to admit he and Bob were cheaters. And the result? Nothing - more cheating more of the same. Anyone want to take bets on what happens this time? (nothing) Just give eve a bad name in the wider world. It does not deserve a good one.
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 01:59:00 - [3747] Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Edited by: Astarte Nosferatu on 28/05/2007 01:47:09 Exactly because there is no proof Dev's are giving away valuable EvE intel through MSN is enough reason why they should not be talking to paying customers on MSN. For all we know BoB might have gotten loads of advice from CCP other paying customers didn't have access to, and CCP wouldn't be able to be held accountable as there would be no way to prove it. If they aren't guilty, they should have known better. It's their own fault. Well, we already have proof Dev's posing as players have given valuable information to BoB (and who knows who else). (T20/Ishos Rerajan Incident). The medium wasn't as controversial as direct Dev access via MSN. The crime is no less heinous. I'm just giving certain BoB members the benefit of the doubt. And they of all people know I have no reason whatsoever to do that after the treatment they've been giving me the last few years. Guess I still have hope for this game . Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
R0ger Wilco	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:01:00 - [3748] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Hsin Edited by: Hsin on 28/05/2007 01:51:53 It's funny how much this investigation is like the last one. They denied everything for weeks until the pressure finally forced T20 to admit he and Bob were cheaters. And the result? Nothing - more cheating more of the same. Anyone want to take bets on what happens this time? (nothing) Just give eve a bad name in the wider world. It does not deserve a good one. Sadly that is pretty much the only thing we can do if we get stonewalled
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:08:00 - [3749] Edited by: Rikeka on 28/05/2007 02:08:41 I just hope CCP does not think we are paying for this game just for them to have fun on their own game... It`s nice they like their own game so much as to play it, though... I can`t trust CCP. I know I should, but all this stuff against them obviously have taken their toll in me... I do believe CCP`s high admins and the sort are probably innocent in all this. It`s the lower GM`s who are ruining this game, the ones among them who can`t separate work and fun, and who believe the rest of the players are paying them, and/or CCP, for their own personal fun. I`m not so stupid to believe BoB alone has profited because of this corrupted GM`s... There is probably dozens of GM`s in other alliances... Who probably helped their own alliances in similar matters. That does not make it all right. That a member of the playerbase can actually discuss with a GM in Local, shows no shame, nor regret: How stupid is that guy? No shame at all. Nor fear of the consequences. All because of a bumped dread, something that seems to not have been done in purpose (or not have been done at all!). I think it`s time for CCP to start changing some things... CCP, probably once seen as a respectable gaming company (and it probably is still seen like that), is now more known for it`s moronic crisis control, for the lack of professionalism on their devs, and for the allegations against them that enetities among their own game can contact them whenever they want, instead of using the system devised for everyone else. Just a final question, CCP: Am I paying the correct fee? Am I paying less than the ones favored by how you run EvE? It`s probably that, I presume. "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!" -Culex (SMRPG)
Royaldo KVA Noble Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:13:00 - [3750] please dear god lets have oveur answer this 1... "OK, I'm getting mildly offended by you now, Bhaal. That's just ridiculous. In june, close to 1000 paying accounts were banned. You do the math on how much that costs us financially."
Oohwha Schipperman Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:21:00 - [3751] Originally by: Royaldo please dear god lets have oveur answer this 1... "OK, I'm getting mildly offended by you now, Bhaal. That's just ridiculous. In june, close to 1000 paying accounts were banned. You do the math on how much that costs us financially." How many of those bans were initiated by BoB members via MSN?
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:24:00 - [3752] Originally by: Relaria Hossin Originally by: Cheng They were just regular players, enjoying EvE just like everyone else. And at somepoint, in those 4 years of playing, some got to be devs and some got to be gm's. These players who got hired also were allowed to keep their player accounts. There's the real problem here and like I said, everything else is the symptom of this huge conflict of interest. There is a reason no other company that runs a MMOG allows this to happen the way CCP does. Yes they are allowed to keep their accounts and they should be able to. Why is it a conflict of interest? - Those who fail are those devs/gm's who reveal their identity. So is that BoB's fault? - No. And what if some revealed their identity to players they trust. - Tbh I don't care... I don't care if someone in Goons, RAZOR etc. have dev/gm's friends on their contact list, it's their friends and they shouldn't be punished only for being true friends. --- Reikoku for the motherf00kin life.
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:24:00 - [3753] CCPs latest answer. I think this finally explains EVERYTHING. there's no such thing as bad press
Boogerbuster	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:25:00 - [3754] Hmm....Lost the sticky for this thread. Next comes the lock and the big sweep this mess under the rug is underway. Geez CCP. Do you think we are idiots?
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:25:00 - [3755] Originally by: Cheng Originally by: Relaria Hossin Originally by: Cheng They were just regular players, enjoying EvE just like everyone else. And at somepoint, in those 4 years of playing, some got to be devs and some got to be gm's. These players who got hired also were allowed to keep their player accounts. There's the real problem here and like I said, everything else is the symptom of this huge conflict of interest. There is a reason no other company that runs a MMOG allows this to happen the way CCP does. Yes they are allowed to keep their accounts and they should be able to. Why is it a conflict of interest? - Those who fail are those devs/gm's who reveal their identity. So is that BoB's fault? - No. And what if some revealed their identity to players they trust. - Tbh I don't care... I don't care if someone in Goons, RAZOR etc. have dev/gm's friends on their contact list, it's their friends and they shouldn't be punished only for being true friends. You don't get it do you? That is against CCPs rules. there's no such thing as bad press
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:27:00 - [3756] Quite amusing, really. I've been waiting, hoping that CCP will release details about ISD guy that got sacked. And instead of it coming first, it'll come last. Why should it come first? "10.5 But havenÆt there been allegations of abuse of power by the volunteers?" "Allegations, yes, but upon investigation, nearly all of these cases are proven to be false. To those outside ISD, the program is mysterious and the object of frequent misconceptions about what the volunteers can and cannot do. These misconceptions make the volunteers an easy target. We take accusations of abuse of power or other wrongdoing by the volunteers very seriously and investigate each thoroughly. On the rare occasion when a volunteer has broken the rules, he has been swiftly dismissed." If it was investigated "thoroughly", CCP should already have all the details available. Yet, they choose not to post anything yet... Only "rules" I could find in relation to ISD reporters are located in this thread: linky "If a reporter approaches you at an ill time then please refer him to someone else or discuss a possible rain check to answer his questions. When a reporter follows your fleet and it makes you extremely nervous then please contact the reporter and tell him that you will contact him or her when there is a battle or that you will update him on where your fleet is heading to. This way the reporter wonÆt follow you around jump after jump. We understand that this may make people very nervous, so please keep us updated on your whereabouts and if something occurs. If you prefer that the IC ignore your alliance or corporation then please have a director contact me ingame, only a director or another leading figure can ask the IC to ignore your alliance and corporation altogether. This will mean we will only talk to people outside your alliance or corporation if there is a conflict in a region. The news will then read that your alliance did not wish to comment on the affairs." Sigh. Can't wait for spin...
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:27:00 - [3757] Edited by: umop 3pisdn on 28/05/2007 02:28:21 Im so sick of people saying "omg this new scandal that new scandal too!" The only new thing was sharkbait apparently fixing a POS, and that is because it happened recently. All of the other **** concerning CCCP=Bob+Devs is not new. But to bring it up previously would get you shouted down by bob/pets/fanbois as a conspiracy theorist. If you think bob having "close" relationships with ccp and many members working for them is anything new you are living in a daze. Its all old. It only becomes "news" when there is proof, something that they are getting better at hiding. I truly doubt that anything, at all, will happen within CCP as a result of this, maybe an office sticky reminding people not to use MSN during work hours... thats about it. CCP know about all of it. As long as you've known of the rumours so have they... they play the game too remember? They dont care if cheating is going on, they just care when its uncovered, as the many bans for posting links to the open letter and k's site will show.
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:30:00 - [3758] Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 27/05/2007 21:59:36 Originally by: Cheng That is exactly what happened with those few in BoB who have the MSN address of the few devs/gm's that are their friends. So basicaly you DONT see the conflict of intrest here? And I doubt anyone care about your lifestory, what people care about on the other hand is if people with POWER that mingle with normal players and LET THEM KNOW that they are DEVS or GM's. That the DEVS or GM's want to play the game is fine, but they shouldnt reveal their identity for ethical reasons. And if a person becomes a dev or gm he/she should recycle their character and start a new one that no one knows about. Quote: And do you all honestly think that some induviduals in BoB are the ONLY players ingame that has devs/gm's on their contact list on MSN? - Grow up. EDIT,ADDED You b0bbies really give this your best dont you? so far, your entire alliance has tried to sweep this under the carpet. You want to make this a bob vs goon thing, when its really a case of pathetic cheaters vs the entire community. Death Kill, what I said about my family is not the point. - The point is that somone I know works for CCP. Does my uncle have to resign from his job? And am I a cheater just becoz I can call him and talk to him? So what that devs/gm's let their FRIENDS know? - I don't care if you know a dev, I don' care if someone in GOONS. know a gm. I just don't care. If the dev/gm's reveals something about the game, then it's the dev/gm's fault. Not the person that got to know the information. You need to start widening your perspective, nobody in BoB (except from t20) has cheated. NOBODY afik. We have been branded cheaters just because of one mans act. Like I said before, grow up. --- Reikoku for the motherf00kin life.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:41:00 - [3759] Originally by: Cheng If the dev/gm's reveals something about the game, then it's the dev/gm's fault. Not the person that got to know the information. You need to start widening your perspective, nobody in BoB (except from t20) has cheated. NOBODY afik. We have been branded cheaters just because of one mans act. Like I said before, grow up. There's scant proof either way beyond the T20 events other than what your own members have admitted to (Ie. Dianabolic). I'm glad you add that afaik at the end because it seems that many people in your alliance have no clue what others are doing. Although it has not been proven yet, raising an in-game issue through MSN by a regular player is not fair play (The adm whateverhisnameis guy issue). All in-game matters should be resolved through the petition system, not by logging into ISD's IRC channel and freaking out over it.
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:42:00 - [3760] Originally by: Cheng Death Kill, what I said about my family is not the point. - The point is that somone I know works for CCP. Does my uncle have to resign from his job? And am I a cheater just becoz I can call him and talk to him? If the dev/gm's reveals something about the game, then it's the dev/gm's fault. Not the person that got to know the information. In most civilized countries, if you know someone is going to, or has commited a crime, and you don't notify the proper authorities, you get sued for aiding a criminal. If a CCP employee breaks CCP rules by giving you classified information, it's your duty to immidiately report it to the right people in CCP, instead of sticking your head in the sand. Of course, if you don't mind getting advantages ingame due to CCP affiliations, you have no right to complain about the memberbase's behaviour towards you. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:46:00 - [3761] Originally by: Cheng Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 27/05/2007 21:59:36 Originally by: Cheng That is exactly what happened with those few in BoB who have the MSN address of the few devs/gm's that are their friends. So basicaly you DONT see the conflict of intrest here? And I doubt anyone care about your lifestory, what people care about on the other hand is if people with POWER that mingle with normal players and LET THEM KNOW that they are DEVS or GM's. That the DEVS or GM's want to play the game is fine, but they shouldnt reveal their identity for ethical reasons. And if a person becomes a dev or gm he/she should recycle their character and start a new one that no one knows about. Quote: And do you all honestly think that some induviduals in BoB are the ONLY players ingame that has devs/gm's on their contact list on MSN? - Grow up. EDIT,ADDED You b0bbies really give this your best dont you? so far, your entire alliance has tried to sweep this under the carpet. You want to make this a bob vs goon thing, when its really a case of pathetic cheaters vs the entire community. Death Kill, what I said about my family is not the point. - The point is that somone I know works for CCP. Does my uncle have to resign from his job? And am I a cheater just becoz I can call him and talk to him? So what that devs/gm's let their FRIENDS know? - I don't care if you know a dev, I don' care if someone in GOONS. know a gm. I just don't care. If the dev/gm's reveals something about the game, then it's the dev/gm's fault. Not the person that got to know the information. You need to start widening your perspective, nobody in BoB (except from t20) has cheated. NOBODY afik. We have been branded cheaters just because of one mans act. Like I said before, grow up. Of course not. But, how can we be sure that your... "uncle" is not helping you? He has helped you before, and he was reprimended by that, yes. But how can we be sure he is not doing it again? We have to, HAHAHAHA, trust your word? See what we refer to? No one here actually trusts CCP because of their poor ill-crisis managament. And no reasonable man actually believes everyone in BoB is cheating. As no reasonable man would think this is limited just to BoB. But if BoB considers it a standard to have CCP Devs on their MSN lists... I want to have their contacts too! Why not? I`m a paying customer too. Friendship has nothing to do with this. I too can talk about bugs and unrelated-EvE stuff. "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!" -Culex (SMRPG)
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:49:00 - [3762] Originally by: Flaming Lemming Originally by: Cheng Originally by: Relaria Hossin Originally by: Cheng They were just regular players, enjoying EvE just like everyone else. And at somepoint, in those 4 years of playing, some got to be devs and some got to be gm's. These players who got hired also were allowed to keep their player accounts. There's the real problem here and like I said, everything else is the symptom of this huge conflict of interest. There is a reason no other company that runs a MMOG allows this to happen the way CCP does. Yes they are allowed to keep their accounts and they should be able to. Why is it a conflict of interest? - Those who fail are those devs/gm's who reveal their identity. So is that BoB's fault? - No. And what if some revealed their identity to players they trust. - Tbh I don't care... I don't care if someone in Goons, RAZOR etc. have dev/gm's friends on their contact list, it's their friends and they shouldn't be punished only for being true friends. You don't get it do you? That is against CCPs rules. I do get it and I just don't care. - Is it my problem that devs/gm's revealed to his friend that he's a dev/gm? No it's not my problem and just to be brutaly honest.. I.. Do.. Not.. Care. Only reason I should care, if someone used his dev/gm friend to grief me. And if the dev/gm actually does something that his friend asked him to do, then I care. But until then, I con't care. --- Reikoku for the motherf00kin life.
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:50:00 - [3763] Originally by: Flaming Lemming CCPs latest answer. I think this finally explains EVERYTHING. The link in your sig... whats it from please? Originally by: Dr Cupid Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!
Local Her0 Minmatar La Mancha Corp	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:51:00 - [3764] i will not pay for an internet-space-ship game anymore where i play against the devs and their friends - i mean are you freaking kidding me bobbit? your uncle is prolly a ccp stuff member - and u don¦t care? oooohhh what a surprise u freak - i do!
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:52:00 - [3765] Originally by: Aphotic Raven Originally by: Flaming Lemming CCPs latest answer. I think this finally explains EVERYTHING. The link in your sig... whats it from please? It's an unrelated YouTube video. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:53:00 - [3766] Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Cheng If the dev/gm's reveals something about the game, then it's the dev/gm's fault. Not the person that got to know the information. You need to start widening your perspective, nobody in BoB (except from t20) has cheated. NOBODY afik. We have been branded cheaters just because of one mans act. Like I said before, grow up. There's scant proof either way beyond the T20 events other than what your own members have admitted to (Ie. Dianabolic). I'm glad you add that afaik at the end because it seems that many people in your alliance have no clue what others are doing. Although it has not been proven yet, raising an in-game issue through MSN by a regular player is not fair play (The adm whateverhisnameis guy issue). All in-game matters should be resolved through the petition system, not by lo gging into ISD's IRC channel and freaking out over it. Can you show me proofs of someone else that is in BoB or was in BoB, cheated? I'm asking for proofs... Not speculations. If you can't give me hard proofs, then don't bother answering. It will only make you look bad. --- Reikoku for the motherf00kin life.
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:54:00 - [3767] As for CCP`s response... I LOVE IT! 1) We may or may not have did something to prevent something like this ever going to happen again. 2) We may or many not have caught the responsible of all this mess. If we did, we will not inform you or their names, nor of what they did... or may not have did. 3) We may show favoritism or not to one side of the EvE community. They may or may not pay more than the rest of the other customers, thus they have special handly talkie talkies to talk to us whenever they feel like it, whenever they feel their ship was unfairly bumped, etc. Comes (or not) with a special "I-Win" button to call-out for a GM whenever he is in Local (or not)! We want certainties, CCP! Disclaimer: I was bored and all this is too funny. "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!" -Culex (SMRPG)
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:57:00 - [3768] Originally by: Cheng Can you show me proofs of someone else that is in BoB or was in BoB, cheated? I'm asking for proofs... Not speculations. If you can't give me hard proofs, then don't bother answering. It will only make you look bad. What, Dianabolic openly admitting it on page 12 doesn't do it for you? Liang Originally by: Dianabolic, of BOB, referring to MSN the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge?
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:57:00 - [3769] Originally by: Cheng Can you show me proofs of someone else that is in BoB or was in BoB, cheated? I'm asking for proofs... Not speculations. If you can't give me hard proofs, then don't bother answering. It will only make you look bad. You appear to not understand that if Dev's/GM's did cheat, they were able to destroy a lot of proof before it leaked out in the public. It's like people claiming to see UFO's, but not being able to prove it. Millions of people claim to have seen 'aliens' but so far, proof is lacking. This might be cause there are no aliens and we're truely alone, or the aliens did their best to ensure no proof of their visits can be found. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:02:00 - [3770] lol, if you ripped out all the text in this thread. how many standard book sized pages do you think it would fill? ...or to say, reading this thread is the equivalent of a how many paged book? I did some rough calculations and came up with 800. Sounds high but wouldn't be suprised if thats being conservative... (Lets just ignore the fact it would be the worst book ever written. I bet, if you read this thread front to back your brains would leak out of your ears. ) oh yeah, and a bit of something to stay on topic... DEVHAXSPLOIT!! i cancel my subscription!11! 2 ppl knowing each other in RL = the ENTIRE GAME being FIXED for bob to win!!! everyone i know is quitting now! CONSPIRACY!!
Devious Syn	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:02:00 - [3771] Just do like me and cancel your subscriptions, Seriously how many more of these "incidents" will it take exactly? Only way anything is gonna happen is if people mass cancel, if anyone thinks differently your nutz.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:02:00 - [3772] Edited by: Jonas Vance on 28/05/2007 03:02:10 Originally by: Cheng Can you show me proofs of someone else that is in BoB or was in BoB, cheated? I'm asking for proofs... Not speculations. If you can't give me hard proofs, then don't bother answering. It will only make you look bad. I can turn it back on you and say, can you show me proof that BoB did NOT cheat? Can I remind you that there is still an ongoing investigation on whether one of your members did or did not abuse his powers of friendship with a dev. As far as prior accounts of cheating, there has only been speculation and conclusions people have drawn from what Kugutsumen has posted. I am not accusing you of cheating I am mearly stating that you cannot rightly say with certainty that BoB has never cheated, you can of course say that no one YOU know has cheated. But that is mearly semantics. Now I can say with certainty a BoB member named Ishos Rerajan did cheat but you use him as an exception in your statement. Hmmmm. Why is he an exception, he was a BoB member, hired fair and square. Others in your alliance knew he was a dev as stated by internal communications. That in itself is cause for speculation of unscrupulous dealings by the leadership.
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:02:00 - [3773] Originally by: Cheng Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Cheng If the dev/gm's reveals something about the game, then it's the dev/gm's fault. Not the person that got to know the information. You need to start widening your perspective, nobody in BoB (except from t20) has cheated. NOBODY afik. We have been branded cheaters just because of one mans act. Like I said before, grow up. There's scant proof either way beyond the T20 events other than what your own members have admitted to (Ie. Dianabolic). I'm glad you add that afaik at the end because it seems that many people in your alliance have no clue what others are doing. Although it has not been proven yet, raising an in-game issue through MSN by a regular player is not fair play (The adm whateverhisnameis guy issue). All in-game matters should be resolved through the petition system, not by lo gging into ISD's IRC channel and freaking out over it. Can you show me proofs of someone else that is in BoB or was in BoB, cheated? I'm asking for proofs... Not speculations. If you can't give me hard proofs, then don't bother answering. It will only make you look bad. T20. But you previously said you did not cared. So what`s the point? You also said that you would only care if someone would use a friendly GM to grief you... So, of course, you won`t care. As that won`t happen to you. A bit over the head, nor I take sides in all this. I know all this too comes with the EvE War turf. As I have no sides there, I don`t care if BoB is truly guilty or not... as much as anyone else would care (not trying second-mean something, I truly mean I don`t care: EvE is just a game) Aside of that, I do hate special priviledges. "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!" -Culex (SMRPG)
Don Bosco Jita Industries	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:03:00 - [3774] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 22:53:36 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Liang Nuren Furthermore, they're "friends", and directly admitted to using that access for in-game bug fixes and favors. Erm, no we haven't? We've directly admitted to, wait for it... using MSN to speak with our friends. If you don't think CCP are monitoring those contacts like hawks for acts of impropriety already then no matter of proof or evidence will ever satisfy you. Get over yourselves, whiners. You're amazing. Every time you post about this subject in here you have even odds (at best) of 'winning' over other Eve O forum-goers and really outstanding odds of presenting yourselves as guilty to outside parties. Why are you here?? "Using MSN to speak to our friends" is inappropriate and unprofessional behavior in any business like this anywhere else in the world- even if you don't get direct benefits, admitting to having it creates an equal conflict of interest and appearance of impropriety. Even if you thought it was ok, how could you possibly think it was a good idea to post on here? You are mindboggling. [...]
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:03:00 - [3775] Originally by: HankMurphy lol, if you ripped out all the text in this thread. how many standard book sized pages do you think it would fill? ...or to say, reading this thread is the equivalent of a how many paged book? I did some rough calculations and came up with 800. Sounds high but wouldn't be suprised if thats being conservative... (Lets just ignore the fact it would be the worst book ever written. I bet, if you read this thread front to back your brains would leak out of your ears. ) oh yeah, and a bit of something to stay on topic... DEVHAXSPLOIT!! i cancel my subscription!11! 2 ppl knowing each other in RL = the ENTIRE GAME being FIXED for bob to win!!! everyone i know is quitting now! CONSPIRACY!! Can't post anything sensible anymore, so you figured posting senseless spam would help your case? Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:08:00 - [3776] Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Originally by: Aphotic Raven Originally by: Flaming Lemming CCPs latest answer. I think this finally explains EVERYTHING. The link in your sig... whats it from please? It's an unrelated YouTube video. I was more interested in this link in his sig Originally by: Dr Cupid Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!
Mud Pandemonium Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:09:00 - [3777] Meanwhile, In Empire..
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:11:00 - [3778] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Cheng Can you show me proofs of someone else that is in BoB or was in BoB, cheated? I'm asking for proofs... Not speculations. If you can't give me hard proofs, then don't bother answering. It will only make you look bad. What, Dianabolic openly admitting it on page 12 doesn't do it for you? Liang Where is the proof? - There are no proofs on page 12 that any other bob member has cheated? - Could you please be more specific, what is it that Dian is admitting to? --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life.
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:13:00 - [3779] Originally by: Mud Pandemonium Meanwhile, In Empire.. Wins thread... "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!" -Culex (SMRPG)
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:15:00 - [3780] Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Cheng Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Cheng If the dev/gm's reveals something about the game, then it's the dev/gm's fault. Not the person that got to know the information. You need to start widening your perspective, nobody in BoB (except from t20) has cheated. NOBODY afik. We have been branded cheaters just because of one mans act. Like I said before, grow up. There's scant proof either way beyond the T20 events other than what your own members have admitted to (Ie. Dianabolic). I'm glad you add that afaik at the end because it seems that many people in your alliance have no clue what others are doing. Although it has not been proven yet, raising an in-game issue through MSN by a regular player is not fair play (The adm whateverhisnameis guy issue). All in-game matters should be resolved through the petition system, not by lo gging into ISD's IRC channel and freaking out over it. Can you show me proofs of someone else that is in BoB or was in BoB, cheated? I'm asking for proofs... Not speculations. If you can't give me hard proofs, then don't bother answering. It will only make you look bad. T20. But you previously said you did not cared. So what`s the point? You also said that you would only care if someone would use a friendly GM to grief you... So, of course, you won`t care. As that won`t happen to you. A bit over the head, nor I take sides in all this. I know all this too comes with the EvE War turf. As I have no sides there, I don`t care if BoB is truly guilty or not... as much as anyone else would care (not trying second-mean something, I truly mean I don`t care: EvE is just a game) Aside of that, I do hate special priviledges. What about t20? - We know he cheated, I asked from PROOFS that SOMONE ELSE cheated. Don't spin around what I have previously stated. I don't care if a dev/gm tells his friend that he is one. I just don't care. What I care about is that people are stating bull**** about BoB and it's players. --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:16:00 - [3781] Edited by: HankMurphy on 28/05/2007 03:15:48 Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Can't post anything sensible anymore, so you figured posting senseless spam would help your case? i dont have "a case". I think this whole thing is laughable. I just hate what goonswarm did to get attention and how they justified it. (its been the topic of most my posts if ya notice) Only those accusers here 'have a case'. A 'case' is something you have against someone, something a prosecution has (right along w/ that bugger of a thing called 'burden of proof') ...and YES, i think just about everything that could be said on the topic has been. Now its just flames/spam/trolling and an eternal point/counter point. of course, when the thread is locked, it will be a CONSPIRACY Does my lack of anger and foaming at the mouth make my spam inappropriate compared to others? I even added that rant at the very end as that seems to be all that required to be considered 'on topic' in here and it was an honest question! Just curious what kind of reading would be involved to make it front to back on this behemoth.... I've tackled a good bit of it and i still dont see where anything blatantly inappropriate OR game effecting has occurred.
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:22:00 - [3782] Originally by: HankMurphy i dont have "a case". I think this whole thing is laughable. I just hate what goonswarm did to get attention and how they justified it. (its been the topic of most my posts if ya notice) This is not a case of Goons vs BoB as it is the case of the customers vs CCP. Only a fraction of the people voicing their distaste of BoB/CCP are Goons, most of us aren't. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:23:00 - [3783] Originally by: Jonas Vance Edited by: Jonas Vance on 28/05/2007 03:02:10 Originally by: Cheng Can you show me proofs of someone else that is in BoB or was in BoB, cheated? I'm asking for proofs... Not speculations. If you can't give me hard proofs, then don't bother answering. It will only make you look bad. I can turn it back on you and say, can you show me proof that BoB did NOT cheat? Can I remind you that there is still an ongoing investigation on whether one of your members did or did not abuse his powers of friendship with a dev. As far as prior accounts of cheating, there has only been speculation and conclusions people have drawn from what Kugutsumen has posted. I am not accusing you of cheating I am mearly stating that you cannot rightly say with certainty that BoB has never cheated, you can of course say that no one YOU know has cheated. But that is mearly semantics. Now I can say with certainty a BoB member named Ishos Rerajan did cheat but you use him as an exception in your statement. Hmmmm. Why is he an exception, he was a BoB member, hired fair and square. Others in your alliance knew he was a dev as stated by internal communications. That in itself is cause for speculation of unscrupulous dealings by the leadership. Innocent until found guilty. - The investigation has revealed that CCP SharkB. was infact doing his job. There was a petition even though Darkstar1 lied there was none. And the petition was not deleted. - So I wonder what else is false in that "Open Letter" ? I could also say there are no proofs that the Goons. have not cheated Or any other for that matter :P Kugutsumen is a jerk, nuff said. The example about "Ishos Rerajan" is valid but it's the devs fault, not BoB :) - So hang the dev. But, the dev has a choice not to use his devpowers to give his alliance the advantage. And until the dev starts cheating then i con't care if he's a dev. ;) --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life.
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:23:00 - [3784] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Liang Nuren Oh, and reporting inappropriate actions of an ISD reporter outside of normal game mechanics and rules is, by definition, cheating. First of all, stop putting words in my mouth... Secondly, listen to what you're claiming! You're claiming that the INAPPROPRIATE actions of an ISD member should be allowed to continue! You're claiming that reporting the INAPPROPRIATE actions of an ISD member is cheating? Your logic escapes me For those of us who likes this game, the sooner an ISD member who is doing INAPPROPRIATE stuff is removed, the better! To analogise to jobs again, if one of my customers tells me that one of my colleagues is in fact breaking our rules of conduct, and I bring that to my boss' attention, we investigate and find out the accusation is right and we punish the perpetrator, we're pretty damn happy that our customer informed us, no matter what the route. It's reporting it thourhg methods nobody else in the game can use were upet about, it's violating the sanctity of the game in doing so were talking about, and in fact it's lying about it and sidesteping the entire situation were talking about. So you report it, fine, but report it like everyone else in the damn game has to, through the proper channels were all forced to use, not your own private devs as seems to be the case.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:25:00 - [3785] Originally by: Cheng What about t20? - We know he cheated, I asked from PROOFS that SOMONE ELSE cheated. Don't spin around what I have previously stated. I don't care if a dev/gm tells his friend that he is one. I just don't care. What I care about is that people are stating bull**** about BoB and it's players. Read the wikipedia definition of cheating. Dianabolic admitted that he has an unfair advantage over other players seeing as he has several Dev's MSN information and that he talks to them regularly. That is PROOF that he has an advantage that many others don't. Is that cheating? I feel it is, because I do not have the same priveleges or permissions. Whether he uses that unfair advantage for personal or in-game gain is merely speculative, but is not out of the realm of reason.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:26:00 - [3786] Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Originally by: HankMurphy i dont have "a case". I think this whole thing is laughable. I just hate what goonswarm did to get attention and how they justified it. (its been the topic of most my posts if ya notice) This is not a case of Goons vs BoB as it is the case of the customers vs CCP. Only a fraction of the people voicing their distaste of BoB/CCP are Goons, most of us aren't. If its an issue of customers versus ccp stop focusing your anger on BoB ;( Stop saying BoB cheated, start saying T20 from CCP cheated. Its not like BoB or any other alliances has full control over their members and knows every detail about what they do and who they are. I mean someone in ds1 probably opened that p[etition to get something fixed, but the CEO's know nothing about it, and they only have to worry about 200 people, not 2000. __________________________________________
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:26:00 - [3787] Originally by: Cheng The investigation has revealed that CCP SharkB. was infact doing his job. There was a petition even though Darkstar1 lied there was none. And the petition was not deleted. - So I wonder what else is false in that "Open Letter" ? It's always handy when the accused are also the judges. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:28:00 - [3788] Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Originally by: HankMurphy i dont have "a case". I think this whole thing is laughable. I just hate what goonswarm did to get attention and how they justified it. (its been the topic of most my posts if ya notice) This is not a case of Goons vs BoB as it is the case of the customers vs CCP. Only a fraction of the people voicing their distaste of BoB/CCP are Goons, most of us aren't. your damn right it is! (and thats why this particular thread will die eventually, its so far off topic its silly. its just to let ppl let off steam) back to the ACTUAL topic it is... (i've said this a couple times but why should we all stop repeating ourselves now?) the real question is, where do we draw the line? what communication out of game is appropriate and what should not be aloud. I see two ways to go... 1) absolutely NO talk of any kind relating to the game between ppl in RL and CCP employees(riiiight, say goodbye to fanfest) OR 2) no communications giving an in-game advantage between CCP staff and ANYONE. (This i would consider bang on!) Of course, nothing here happened that gave anyone an ingame advantage, so most ppl posting in here wont go for that. They would rather continue to make this a BOB/CCP vs everyone else discussion as it has been from the start.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:28:00 - [3789] Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Cheng What about t20? - We know he cheated, I asked from PROOFS that SOMONE ELSE cheated. Don't spin around what I have previously stated. I don't care if a dev/gm tells his friend that he is one. I just don't care. What I care about is that people are stating bull**** about BoB and it's players. Read the wikipedia definition of cheating. Dianabolic admitted that he has an unfair advantage over other players seeing as he has several Dev's MSN information and that he talks to them regularly. That is PROOF that he has an advantage that many others don't. Is that cheating? I feel it is, because I do not have the same priveleges or permissions. Whether he uses that unfair advantage for personal or in-game gain is merely speculative, but is not out of the realm of reason. Hmm, talking to your friends over MSN, or hell talking to your faimly over MSN is an advantage? Nobody ever said that they were talking abotu game breaking stuff, so you came to the conclusion on your own that because they were talking that it makes a difference. Whos to say they werent talking about the weather, or some fine ass girl/guy they saw? __________________________________________
Mud Pandemonium Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:29:00 - [3790] Edited by: Mud Pandemonium on 28/05/2007 03:29:33 Since we all seem to be using this thread to bash alliances, allow me to say "Booo Against All Authorities!" Kicking me out whilst I was in physical rehabilitation for a few months, for shame. I started reading this thread before I left for work this morning, it was around 100 or so pages, when I got home? Around 130ish, now? 147? All it seems to be is BoB bashing Goons, Goons bashing BoB, alts bashing everyone and everyone bashing CCP. BoB, Goons.. you're both more alike than you care to admit, you have good players and you've got bad players, while I understand heated rivalries fuel 0.0 you're really beating a dead horse in this thread. Yes, everyones going to jump on CCP about these issues and you have the right to do so as a consumer..but hey they're trying atleast. Yeah I've been screwed over by CCP before to and yeah, it stings. For all we know Sharkbait had no ill intent and this whole thing could just be a giant snowball of doubt and mistrust. Forgiveness is a tough pill to swallow sometimes and yeah alot of you want to see T20 lynched for what he did. We're human, we all have made bad calls in our lives (Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone and such). This is no different. I've got no problem with anyone having a dev on their GMs, (edit: I mean dev on their MSN) hell I'd love to talk to a few EVE Devs just about anything, some of them seem fairly cool. Yeah it was a bad call on that BoB guys part to ask the guy over MSN to fire the ISD member, it was just bad judgement all around. I'm just trying to look at what was going through their heads at the time, odds are tempers flared and the BoB guy asked his friend for a favour, friends help friends, it might not have been right but it's what happened. It would be cool if CCP would put some rules in place to prevent this sort of thing from happening again and they probably will after this fiasco. I don't know, I figure what can be said has been said already in this thread, bad choices were made by everyone. Goons, that threadnaught was not cool but I totally understand where you were coming from and I can dig it. BoB, I'm not going to razz on you guys for the actions of one of your members, stuff happens and you guys can work to prevent this sort of thing from happening again, I mean the ISD guy didn't even mean to bump your dread, that command just goes to 1 foot, I'm sure it was just an honest mistake. Miscommunication led to anger and so on. If this post seems incoherant I'm dosed up to my eyeballs on 12mg hydromorphcontins for pain. As for the event rigging, well..yeah it's not fair that the ending is predetermined like that, but people work hard on those things and sometimes I like to see BoB win and get stronger.. what would EVE be without the giant powerhouse that is BoB? Goons, it gives you guys your whole "Fighting for the Universe" thing, it gives purpose to have a really strong enemy in my opinion. When it comes down to it, we're all paying a monthly fee to pretend we're spaceship pilots. Pew Pew Pew?
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:30:00 - [3791] Originally by: Cheng Innocent until found guilty. - The investigation has revealed that CCP SharkB. was infact doing his job. There was a petition even though Darkstar1 lied there was none. And the petition was not deleted. - So I wonder what else is false in that "Open Letter" ? I could also say there are no proofs that the Goons. have not cheated Or any other for that matter :P Kugutsumen is a jerk, nuff said. The example about "Ishos Rerajan" is valid but it's the devs fault, not BoB :) - So hang the dev. But, the dev has a choice not to use his devpowers to give his alliance the advantage. And until the dev starts cheating then i con't care if he's a dev. ;) You could also so there is no proof that any alliance has not cheated. But if the shoe was on a different foot and the goons or whoever else cheated because of similar issues my stance would be the same. If they are using any dodgy means to get an unfair advantage I would label them cheaters. Stop letting Dev's into other player alliances, end of story. Let them play in another sandbox. Let me ask you this, if someone in your corp told you he was a dev, would you out him? It is definitley against the rules for a CCP employee to admit this to anyone.
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:30:00 - [3792] Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Cheng What about t20? - We know he cheated, I asked from PROOFS that SOMONE ELSE cheated. Don't spin around what I have previously stated. I don't care if a dev/gm tells his friend that he is one. I just don't care. What I care about is that people are stating bull**** about BoB and it's players. Read the wikipedia definition of cheating. Dianabolic admitted that he has an unfair advantage over other players seeing as he has several Dev's MSN information and that he talks to them regularly. That is PROOF that he has an advantage that many others don't. Is that cheating? I feel it is, because I do not have the same priveleges or permissions. Whether he uses that unfair advantage for personal or in-game gain is merely speculative, but is not out of the realm of reason. So what he has friends on MSN that are dev/gm's ? - They are is his friends. How can it be cheating? Does he get +20 in Perception just becoz he has friends on MSN? Common.. I don't care if someone has someone who is a dev on his contact list. - The dev should be responsible enough to not use his position to do something. Though the fact he told his friend that he is a dev is not allowed. --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life. My sig got nerfed :( waaaaaaaaah!
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:32:00 - [3793] The ones with the biggest mouth usually takes the most heat. BoB has proven to be full of big-mouths, so it's not surprising they are taking the heat for this one. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:32:00 - [3794] Edited by: Cheng on 28/05/2007 03:32:19 Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Originally by: Cheng The investigation has revealed that CCP SharkB. was infact doing his job. There was a petition even though Darkstar1 lied there was none. And the petition was not deleted. - So I wonder what else is false in that "Open Letter" ? It's always handy when the accused are also the judges. Don't trust the IA, then stfu and leave the game. Why are you talking here like you care when you don't trust the IA ? You are not helping anyone.. OFF TOPIC Btw, aren't you the one who got pwnd by Molle? OFF TOPIC --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life. My sig got nerfed :( waaaaaaaaah!
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:33:00 - [3795] Interesting what is known to be true at this point. We know for a fact that Darkstar1 lied. We know for a fact that a pro-goon ISD was bumping bob dreads out of alignment. We know that bob rushed a petition to have CCP "look" at the issue. Somehow I dont feel very bad. Guess what folks, dont expect this to be the end of this crap. So long as some folks (goons and other bob haters) are witch hunting for some excuse they can twist for scandle value, they WILL find stuff now and then. Not even perfect saint behavior can stop a determined inspector from finding something to complain about, and that applies to a heck of a lot more than Eve.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:33:00 - [3796] Originally by: Popsikle Hmm, talking to your friends over MSN, or hell talking to your faimly over MSN is an advantage? Nobody ever said that they were talking abotu game breaking stuff, so you came to the conclusion on your own that because they were talking that it makes a difference. Whos to say they werent talking about the weather, or some fine ass girl/guy they saw? And they very well could have been talking about the weather. But they also could have been talking about the next nerf to X module that has not been stated to the public (Merely an example). This as a paying customer does not make me feel comfortable, and I do not know what can be done to make it better.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:34:00 - [3797] Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. Originally by: definition: cheating any behavior outside the rules intended to give an unfair advantage to one or more players. Originally by: Eve EULA You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. Originally by: Conflict of Interest, definition A conflict between an individualÆs personal interest and his or her public duty. This can exist whether or not money is involved, and whether the conflict is actual or only perceived. A) Dianabolic directly admits to speaking to CCP GM's and Devs about in-game matters via a behavior outside the rules (MSN) B) Dianabolic goes on to say that its ok, because he's been playing the game for four years. C) Dianabolic directly admits to not using the petition system to get bugs fixed. D) Dianabolic outs himself and other BOB/Alliance members as also speaking with CCP via an outside of the rules mechanism. E) Even only information will change the way the game is played. Therefore, any information given via a 3rd party (outside the rules) is a breach of section 7.2 of the Eve EULA F) Anytime a game's developers speak to parties about that game via personal communication (like MSN to their friends), it is a conflict of interest. In most places, the only proper behavior when queried about privileged information is to refer them to the appropriate source of information (a petition, or the Eve-O forums, or one of the many CCP email addresses, in this case). G) The current allegations are that MSN was used as a primary means of communication with CCP (over petitioning, like the rest of us mere mortals)* I'd call issues A-F open and shut (by admission) of cheating. G will be investigated by CCP. The rest? He openly admits it. Liang Originally by: Dianabolic, of BOB, referring to MSN the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge?
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:34:00 - [3798] Thing is we only hear about BoB connections with CCP. We all know those connections exist on aother alliances or entities too, but may be they are smarter and hide it better... :D For example, the guy that whined in Local to a GM because of a bumped dread... I bet he is not very smart. He is probably not in charge of BoB`s Military Intelligance. :P "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!" -Culex (SMRPG)
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:37:00 - [3799] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Interesting what is known to be true at this point. We know for a fact that Darkstar1 lied. We know for a fact that a pro-goon ISD was bumping bob dreads out of alignment. We know that bob rushed a petition to have CCP "look" at the issue. Somehow I dont feel very bad. Guess what folks, dont expect this to be the end of this crap. So long as some folks (goons and other bob haters) are witch hunting for some excuse they can twist for scandle value, they WILL find stuff now and then. Not even perfect saint behavior can stop a determined inspector from finding something to complain about, and that applies to a heck of a lot more than Eve. Whoa whoa whoa, some new evidence come to light about point two? I didn't know this ISD guy was pro-goon, nor have I seen any solid evidence that he bumped anyone. Only what people have said, and THAT is still under investigation. Don't state something as fact that is still under investigation. You'll only make yourself look ignorant.
Astarte Nosferatu Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:38:00 - [3800] Originally by: Rikeka For example, the guy that whined in Local to a GM because of a bumped dread... I bet he is not very smart. He is probably not in charge of BoB`s Military Intelligance. :P He's actually a high ranking Dev and one of the leading figures in BoB if I recall correctly. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:39:00 - [3801] Originally by: Popsikle Hmm, talking to your friends over MSN, or hell talking to your faimly over MSN is an advantage? Nobody ever said that they were talking abotu game breaking stuff, so you came to the conclusion on your own that because they were talking that it makes a difference. Whos to say they werent talking about the weather, or some fine ass girl/guy they saw? In the original post on page 12, Dianabolic says that he talks to CCP GM's and Devs about Eve and in-game material. He further expounds on that to directly state that he bypasses the petition process. Liang Originally by: Dianabolic, of BOB, referring to MSN the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge?
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:42:00 - [3802] Quote: If they are using any dodgy means to get an unfair advantage I would label them cheaters. I agree, and t20 did cheat. - But there's not other proof that anyother has cheated :> If someone in my corp would tell me that he is a dev/gm, I would most certainly not out him. I consider everyone in my corp as my collegue and my friend. I'd be proud if he would trust me enough to tell me that big secret. --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life. My sig got nerfed :( waaaaaaaaah!
Mud Pandemonium Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:42:00 - [3803] Hey hey, can we really say what the BoB guy did was cheating? I dunno, maybe the opiates are getting to me but.. Put yourself in his shoes okay? He gets accidently bumped by an ISD guy, no problem so far..shoulda been a quick apology and such. You know how people on the internet are though eh? Tempers flared up, odds are harsh words were exchanged and in a flight of rage maybe he called upon a friend to do something without thinking it through first? Calling him a cheater is fairly strong don't you think? Maybe his emotions just got the better of him? Think about it for a minute.. how many times have your emotions gotten the better of you whilst fighting with say a girlfriend/boyfriend, spouse, family member, maybe a fight at school that escalated? He made a very poor judgement call but I don't think he had sufficient time to think his actions through. We're all human baby, that's all. And I am shocked at how impressive Goonswarm has become! When I left for physical rehabilitation the last thing I remember was a gigantic glowing red dot on the map where a bunch of frigates got popped by a doomsday (I think) Just checking out your youtube videos and reading more, you guys have come such a far way!, Kudos to all of you. C'mon guys, you're letting your emotions get the better of you, hell if you guys were at Fanfest together you'd be laughing and sharing drinks and such, remember.. it's a game! (Yes, we all do put time and effort into it though, but remember, we're only putting the time, effort and money into it for fun, what else can we hope to gain?) C'mon now, stop being silly and get back to the war, I am interested to see how this one plays out. I'll be watching from Empire.
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:46:00 - [3804] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Interesting what is known to be true at this point. We know for a fact that Darkstar1 lied. We know for a fact that a pro-goon ISD was bumping bob dreads out of alignment. We know that bob rushed a petition to have CCP "look" at the issue. Somehow I dont feel very bad. Guess what folks, dont expect this to be the end of this crap. So long as some folks (goons and other bob haters) are witch hunting for some excuse they can twist for scandle value, they WILL find stuff now and then. Not even perfect saint behavior can stop a determined inspector from finding something to complain about, and that applies to a heck of a lot more than Eve. So it`s not ok for a ISD to be pro-goon? I mean, because of how you said that... And if what you call facts, is what CCP let us know, then those are not facts... Mildly accusations, I daresay (How can someone trust an entity that says "May or may not have happened, none of your damn business" is beyond me...) And though I agree with what you say on the BoB haters... because of the T20 incident, to which everyone was fed that it was a lie, that the accusations against BoB were false, and then it was proven all right... How can we trust? And; I know you, or BoB, does not care if we trust them or not, and you are right: You should not care. Let`s face it, no one is going to believe BoB. Only members of that alliance believe you, and yes, some other alliances that depend on BoB (slaves, pets, call them as you like) And how CCP shows favoritism on some double standards... some which we cannot be mentioned here, or we would probably be gagged/banned/forum banned... and this is coming from no Kugut fan, believe me... (you probably know what I mean now) Again, let`s face it: As you said it, no one will ever believe BoB. "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!" -Culex (SMRPG)
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:47:00 - [3805] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? Do you lot REALLY think that the "top" people, Hillmar and Oveur etc, are party to all of this? Of course they're not, this is their cash cow. Get over yourselves. Ya'll complain when something doesn't go your way, but I don't hear any of you complaining when the conversations any of us have with the very same people lead to bugs being fixed, oh no, because that's a benefit RIGHT? (not directed at you, nyphur, jsut the general idiocy that is prevalent in this thread). Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots. Originally by: definition: cheating any behavior outside the rules intended to give an unfair advantage to one or more players. Originally by: Eve EULA You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. Originally by: Conflict of Interest, definition A conflict between an individualÆs personal interest and his or her public duty. This can exist whether or not money is involved, and whether the conflict is actual or only perceived. A) Dianabolic directly admits to speaking to CCP GM's and Devs about in-game matters via a behavior outside the rules (MSN) B) Dianabolic goes on to say that its ok, because he's been playing the game for four years. C) Dianabolic directly admits to not using the petition system to get bugs fixed. D) Dianabolic outs himself and other BOB/Alliance members as also speaking with CCP via an outside of the rules mechanism. E) Even only information will change the way the game is played. Therefore, any information given via a 3rd party (outside the rules) is a breach of section 7.2 of the Eve EULA F) Anytime a game's developers speak to parties about that game via personal communication (like MSN to their friends), it is a conflict of interest. In most places, the only proper behavior when queried about privileged information is to refer them to the appropriate source of information (a petition, or the Eve-O forums, or one of the many CCP email addresses, in this case). G) The current allegations are that MSN was used as a primary means of communication with CCP (over petitioning, like the rest of us mere mortals)* I'd call issues A-F open and shut (by admission) of cheating. G will be investigated by CCP. The rest? He openly admits it. Liang As I've stated before, I don't care if someone has a dev/gm friend on his contact list. They are friends. Do you know what that is? And plus, how is it a advantige that he has some dev on his msn list? - I'd say it's a advantige to have someone who trusts you enough to even tell you that he is a dev. This is not proof of any ingame cheating. --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life. My sig got nerfed :( waaaaaaaaah!
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:47:00 - [3806] Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Originally by: Rikeka For example, the guy that whined in Local to a GM because of a bumped dread... I bet he is not very smart. He is probably not in charge of BoB`s Military Intelligance. :P He's actually a high ranking Dev and one of the leading figures in BoB if I recall correctly. We are doomed! And I`m probably goona get banned... "I am matter... I am anti-matter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I consume time... And I will consume you!" -Culex (SMRPG)
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:53:00 - [3807] Originally by: Cheng As I've stated before, I don't care if someone has a dev/gm friend on his contact list. They are friends. Do you know what that is? And plus, how is it a advantige that he has some dev on his msn list? - I'd say it's a advantige to have someone who trusts you enough to even tell you that he is a dev. This is not proof of any ingame cheating. WTF man? You don't see how someone having the ability to bypass the petition process is cheating? How about if he talks about a bug that's affecting everyone, and he gets fixed first? Even not going into the infinite possibilities for even unintentional cheating (by gathering information about Eve or future patches that otherwise cannot be gotten), bypassing the petition system by directly contacting a Dev/GM is 100% most assuredly cheating. How is that not cheating? Liang Originally by: Dianabolic, of BOB, referring to MSN the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge?
Krumpit Caldari Madness of Crowds	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:54:00 - [3808] Originally by: Cheng Edited by: Cheng on 28/05/2007 03:32:19 Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Originally by: Cheng The investigation has revealed that CCP SharkB. was infact doing his job. There was a petition even though Darkstar1 lied there was none. And the petition was not deleted. - So I wonder what else is false in that "Open Letter" ? It's always handy when the accused are also the judges. Don't trust the IA, then stfu and leave the game. Why are you talking here like you care when you don't trust the IA ? You are not helping anyone.. OFF TOPIC Btw, aren't you the one who got pwnd by Molle? OFF TOPIC It's quite simple really. "Once bitten, twice shy" You weren't bitten once yet, T20 was in your alliance. So you don't care, as you continually say. Everyone else was bitten.
Mud Pandemonium Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:55:00 - [3809] I'm with Cheng on this one. Friends are important, man I wouldn't break off a friendship because someone said "Oh, he's a dev you can't talk to him" Man, not even CCP should be able to say that. If they're not doing anything wrong fine y'know? Good friends, good times.. maybe this was just one little incident eh? People calling for a firewall between devs/gms and players don't realize that the greatest part about EVE is how much the developers and GMs are involved with the community. Sad to think that a few incidents are gonna spoil that great thing. I'd rather have devs I could talk to, joke around with and poke fun at then the mindless robots you find on other MMO's. There is always gonna be a stigma though because of the actions of T20, but maybe T20 just wanted people to like him more? Maybe he liked the attention he got for giving people stuff? Ahh..you're all way too negative. Bad vibes and such, just relax and have a little fun now and again! CCP, hows about to make up for this big fiasco you hold a giant in-game party event. I'd like to see all the alliance leaders mingling in a chat, that'd be something.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:56:00 - [3810] Originally by: Cheng If someone in my corp would tell me that he is a dev/gm, I would most certainly not out him. Would you report that he divulged his identity to IA/CCP? Because if not... wow. Just wow.
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:57:00 - [3811] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Cheng As I've stated before, I don't care if someone has a dev/gm friend on his contact list. They are friends. Do you know what that is? And plus, how is it a advantige that he has some dev on his msn list? - I'd say it's a advantige to have someone who trusts you enough to even tell you that he is a dev. This is not proof of any ingame cheating. WTF man? You don't see how someone having the ability to bypass the petition process is cheating? How about if he talks about a bug that's affecting everyone, and he gets fixed first? Even not going into the infinite possibilities for even unintentional cheating (by gathering information about Eve or future patches that otherwise cannot be gotten), bypassing the petition system by directly contacting a Dev/GM is 100% most assuredly cheating. How is that not cheating? Liang Don't you "wtf man" me So what if he gets a bug fixed that's affecting everyone? Everyone wins right? lol I have never said that bypassing the petition is okay. But I don't think it's cheating.. --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life. My sig got nerfed :( waaaaaaaaah!
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:00:00 - [3812] Edited by: Cheng on 28/05/2007 04:00:40 Originally by: Krumpit Originally by: Cheng Edited by: Cheng on 28/05/2007 03:32:19 Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Originally by: Cheng The investigation has revealed that CCP SharkB. was infact doing his job. There was a petition even though Darkstar1 lied there was none. And the petition was not deleted. - So I wonder what else is false in that "Open Letter" ? It's always handy when the accused are also the judges. Don't trust the IA, then stfu and leave the game. Why are you talking here like you care when you don't trust the IA ? You are not helping anyone.. OFF TOPIC Btw, aren't you the one who got pwnd by Molle? OFF TOPIC It's quite simple really. "Once bitten, twice shy" You weren't bitten once yet, T20 was in your alliance. So you don't care, as you continually say. Everyone else was bitten. I do care becoz he cheated... - And it did affect me. First I got a little dissappointed. But I got over it. So should the rest of EvE. And it affected me that now (mostly) everyone has this false impression about BoB and (mostly) everyone thinks that every player in BoB is a cheater. And I don't like being called a cheater. EDIT stupid typo EDIT --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life. My sig got nerfed :( waaaaaaaaah!
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:01:00 - [3813] Originally by: Cheng As I've stated before, I don't care if someone has a dev/gm friend on his contact list. They are friends. Do you know what that is? And plus, how is it a advantige that he has some dev on his msn list? - I'd say it's a advantige to have someone who trusts you enough to even tell you that he is a dev. This is not proof of any ingame cheating. Again, having a dev on MSN doesn't prove you have cheated. But it certainly would be easy to do it having the means now would it. It's like playing a casino in which you are friends with the dealer. If you walk out every day with a pile of money people would probably get suspicious. The fact that you were good friends with the dealer doesn't prove he helped you cheat. But it sure wouldn't make the other patrons happy if they found out that he did help you cheat.
Krumpit Caldari Madness of Crowds	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:03:00 - [3814] Originally by: Cheng Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Cheng As I've stated before, I don't care if someone has a dev/gm friend on his contact list. They are friends. Do you know what that is? And plus, how is it a advantige that he has some dev on his msn list? - I'd say it's a advantige to have someone who trusts you enough to even tell you that he is a dev. This is not proof of any ingame cheating. WTF man? You don't see how someone having the ability to bypass the petition process is cheating? How about if he talks about a bug that's affecting everyone, and he gets fixed first? Even not going into the infinite possibilities for even unintentional cheating (by gathering information about Eve or future patches that otherwise cannot be gotten), bypassing the petition system by directly contacting a Dev/GM is 100% most assuredly cheating. How is that not cheating? Liang Don't you "wtf man" me So what if he gets a bug fixed that's affecting everyone? Everyone wins right? lol I have never said that bypassing the petition is okay. But I don't think it's cheating.. No, - the bug that is affecting a specific alliance at that time gets fixed right away, because they have dev friends. You may not gain an advantage through out of game mean, it bears repeating, I think.
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:04:00 - [3815] Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Cheng As I've stated before, I don't care if someone has a dev/gm friend on his contact list. They are friends. Do you know what that is? And plus, how is it a advantige that he has some dev on his msn list? - I'd say it's a advantige to have someone who trusts you enough to even tell you that he is a dev. This is not proof of any ingame cheating. Again, having a dev on MSN doesn't prove you have cheated. But it certainly would be easy to do it having the means now would it. It's like playing a casino in which you are friends with the dealer. If you walk out every day with a pile of money people would probably get suspicious. The fact that you were good friends with the dealer doesn't prove he helped you cheat. But it sure wouldn't make the other patrons happy if they found out that he did help you cheat. "Again, having a dev on MSN doesn't prove you have cheated" - I rest my case. And also, your metaphor just doesn't work, sorry. You can't just always say "if this", "if that", "if he did that", "if you did that", "if.....", "if....". Just endless of "if..". --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life. My sig got nerfed :( waaaaaaaaah!
Etien Aldragoran GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:05:00 - [3816] Strange how the most damaging issue brought up with this to-do is still unresolved, and will probably be swept under the carpet. The fact that BoB actually seems proud of their part in it is more damaging still. HOW can you idiots feel that trading on your so-called "friends" honor, by involving them in these matters outside the correct channels of contact, is a good thing to do? If I had friends like you, we wouldn't be friends for very long, because you people who FLAUNT your connections are *****s of the N'th degree. And on such petty bull** too. How can you call yourselves the Devs/GM's friends when you expose them to at LEAST the illusion of impropriety by continuing on like you do.
Krumpit Caldari Madness of Crowds	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:06:00 - [3817] Originally by: Cheng I do care becoz he cheated... - And it did affect me. First I got a little dissappointed. But I got over it. So should the rest of EvE. Circular argument. You only care because he was found out. If he wasn't found out, you wouldn't care.
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:10:00 - [3818] Originally by: Krumpit Originally by: Cheng I do care becoz he cheated... - And it did affect me. First I got a little dissappointed. But I got over it. So should the rest of EvE. Circular argument. You only care because he was found out. If he wasn't found out, you wouldn't care. Well.. Yes basicly. - I don't care as long the dev is playing fair. When people cheat, it always comes out. Always --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life. My sig got nerfed :( waaaaaaaaah!
Krumpit Caldari Madness of Crowds	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:12:00 - [3819] Originally by: Cheng Originally by: Krumpit Originally by: Cheng I do care becoz he cheated... - And it did affect me. First I got a little dissappointed. But I got over it. So should the rest of EvE. Circular argument. You only care because he was found out. If he wasn't found out, you wouldn't care. Well.. Yes basicly. - I don't care as long the dev is playing fair. When people cheat, it always comes out. Always As I said, once bitten (T20), twice shy.... Your naievite is touching, the rest of us aren't so trusting, because, oh yeah, once bitten...
Gee Lok	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:13:00 - [3820] Originally by: Rikeka Thing is we only hear about BoB connections with CCP. We all know those connections exist on aother alliances or entities too, but may be they are smarter and hide it better... :D I don't think that bob are worse at hiding it. It is more that their enemies are much better at advertising it. This whole affair is a good example of that.
Plim Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:17:00 - [3821] You can't possibly, by any stretch of the word 'logic', expect people to not find it suspicious when people in an alliance which has been proved to have gained an advantage from a cheating dev, claim to have friends who are devs. I mean that would be a little bit out there. Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
Sahriah BloodStone	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:17:00 - [3822] Excuse me for not being up-to-date on this but what exactly happened that was bad? From what ive read Sharbait entered a corp to fix a bug and it was fixed *confused
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:18:00 - [3823] Quote: Your naievite is touching, the rest of us aren't so trusting, because, oh yeah, once bitten... So I'm naive because I tend to trust people? - People should trust one another more often, the world would be a much better place. --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life. My sig got nerfed :( waaaaaaaaah!
Krumpit Caldari Madness of Crowds	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:22:00 - [3824] Originally by: Gee Lok Originally by: Rikeka Thing is we only hear about BoB connections with CCP. We all know those connections exist on aother alliances or entities too, but may be they are smarter and hide it better... :D I don't think that bob are worse at hiding it. It is more that their enemies are much better at advertising it. This whole affair is a good example of that. Another fantastic argument. Bob is an alliance. All alliances are the same. Evidence exists that Bob cheated. Therefore all alliances cheat, to the same level as Bob, and the absence of evidence for this is simply due to the fact that their enemies are better advertisers.
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:26:00 - [3825] ccp you have my full support however my mind has already been made up by the goons. the goons have made it all up. it proves what loosers they are qed
Krumpit Caldari Madness of Crowds	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:29:00 - [3826] Originally by: Cheng Quote: Your naievite is touching, the rest of us aren't so trusting, because, oh yeah, once bitten... So I'm naive because I tend to trust people? - People should trust one another more often, the world would be a much better place. No, - the world would be a worse place if people trusted cheats, knowing that they were cheats. It would be called negligence.
Zesuth	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:31:00 - [3827] Talking to your friends who have later become CCP employees on MSN = understandable and just fine in every way. Talking to your friends who have later become CCP employees on MSN about EVE as Dianabolic admitted even if there has been no abuse or information leaks = unacceptable, completely unprofessional and something that absolutely should change. Even if all these accusations in the open letter prove to be misunderstandings and/or completely baseless, the way CCP handles player-employee relations must change if they intend to keep my money. They have to take these things more seriously and create a strict policy on unofficial communication between players and employees such as MSN. It doesn't matter if Dianabolic or any other players have received insider information or preferential treatment or not, the mere appearance that there is something dubious going on here is enough to hurt the company significantly. I don't think there's been a lot of people who have quit over this issue. I'm taking a firm wait-and-see approach and there just isn't anything like EVE on the market. I'm most certain, however, that by further eroding the public image of EVE CCP will feel this incident in their wallets when it comes to new players joining the game.
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:33:00 - [3828] Originally by: Krumpit Originally by: Cheng Quote: Your naievite is touching, the rest of us aren't so trusting, because, oh yeah, once bitten... So I'm naive because I tend to trust people? - People should trust one another more often, the world would be a much better place. No, - the world would be a worse place if people trusted cheats, knowing that they were cheats. It would be called negligence. So trust noone becoz someone might cheat? --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life. My sig got nerfed :( waaaaaaaaah!
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:35:00 - [3829] Originally by: Cheng Quote: Your naievite is touching, the rest of us aren't so trusting, because, oh yeah, once bitten... So I'm naive because I tend to trust people? - People should trust one another more often, the world would be a much better place. You are naive because you trust blindly in people who commited and infration, when they say that although they have the means to easily do this again they won't. It is the same naivety someone would show in contracting a bank robber to be cash dealer in the bank. Or a falsary to be CEO of his firm. I wouldn't find weird if your corp and allaince leaders are gaining lots of money selling ISK. And it wouldn't surprise me either if their CCP's "friends" are getting part of this money. Everything said in this thread is very difficult to be proven, but money is easy to follow. And if it is indeed happening, if employees from CCP are using their position to do this with the help of some players, that would be a criminal infraction, not a mere EULA violation. And as I said that is much easier to find out...
Mileionaha GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:40:00 - [3830] Edited by: Mileionaha on 28/05/2007 04:40:10 Originally by: Cheng Originally by: Krumpit No, - the world would be a worse place if people trusted cheats, knowing that they were cheats. It would be called negligence. So trust noone becoz someone might cheat? Do you even bother reading what was written? Seriously. He writes 'A', you respond to some imaginary 'B'. Personally, why are we still talking about Darkstar1? It's all a red herring to draw attention from the larger issues of rigging and bias and distrust. Darkstar1 was fishy, sure enough, but it seems that CCP and the Bobbies are desperate that we pay attention to the 'fishy' rather than the 'outrageously corrupt'. I'm sure it has been posted, but this ain't from Goonfleet. We're jus the ones with the cajones to keep bringing it up. http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html
Cheng Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:41:00 - [3831] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Cheng Quote: Your naievite is touching, the rest of us aren't so trusting, because, oh yeah, once bitten... So I'm naive because I tend to trust people? - People should trust one another more often, the world would be a much better place. You are naive because you trust blindly in people who commited and infration, when they say that although they have the means to easily do this again they won't. It is the same naivety someone would show in contracting a bank robber to be cash dealer in the bank. Or a falsary to be CEO of his firm. I wouldn't find weird if your corp and allaince leaders are gaining lots of money selling ISK. And it wouldn't surprise me either if their CCP's "friends" are getting part of this money. Everything said in this thread is very difficult to be proven, but money is easy to follow. And if it is indeed happening, if employees from CCP are using their position to do this with the help of some players, that would be a criminal infraction, not a mere EULA violation. And as I said that is much easier to find out... I'm naive becoz I trust people when t20 cheated? - So everyone in BoB are cheaters? Everyone in eve are cheaters? You are just like those stupid ppl I've been talking about.. No offence though. --- Reikoku for snip Don't do that. -Rauth life. My sig got nerfed :( waaaaaaaaah!
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:45:00 - [3832] Edited by: Deus Ex''Machina on 28/05/2007 04:49:56 Can Orange Species and Admiral Crajfdsjagfajfyj be one and the same guy? They both seem to have the same aggressive bully / e-peen waving mentality. If so will Orange Species get deleted? That would be worth a laugh or two It would also explain the promptitude of the ban somewhat. - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait: Dude. True amarr tank shields!
Mileionaha GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 04:46:00 - [3833] Originally by: Cheng 'Here is my irrelevant statement'. 'Here's some hyperbole' 'here's some more hyperbole' - 'Now I'm going to insult you, but oops! Don't get angry at me' Hmm... I missed the point where you actually addressed anything in a worthwhile fashion. http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html - If you haven't read this, please don't even talk about 'scandal'. Approach all problems with the maximum amount of data you can gather.
Gallien Krueger	Posted - 2007.05.28 05:05:00 - [3834] Originally by: Cheng Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Cheng Quote: Your naievite is touching, the rest of us aren't so trusting, because, oh yeah, once bitten... So I'm naive because I tend to trust people? - People should trust one another more often, the world would be a much better place. You are naive because you trust blindly in people who commited and infration, when they say that although they have the means to easily do this again they won't. It is the same naivety someone would show in contracting a bank robber to be cash dealer in the bank. Or a falsary to be CEO of his firm. I wouldn't find weird if your corp and allaince leaders are gaining lots of money selling ISK. And it wouldn't surprise me either if their CCP's "friends" are getting part of this money. Everything said in this thread is very difficult to be proven, but money is easy to follow. And if it is indeed happening, if employees from CCP are using their position to do this with the help of some players, that would be a criminal infraction, not a mere EULA violation. And as I said that is much easier to find out... I'm naive becoz I trust people when t20 cheated? - So everyone in BoB are cheaters? Everyone in eve are cheaters? You are just like those stupid ppl I've been talking about.. No offence though. You are so extremely boorish. If it's ok for 1 player to have the msn contacts of multiple dev's, then why isn't it ok for everyone to have those contacts. If one gains no advantage from having them, then there is no harm in everyone having them. Then we could just talk to the dev's in chat whenever we come across a bug and they can work on it. They could also build a chat log server to keep track of all the different chats where players submit bugs, so they could go through and keep track of how many people are being affected by which bugs, and maintain a full history of them. Wouldn't it be great if they had something like that set up?
Krumpit Caldari Madness of Crowds	Posted - 2007.05.28 05:26:00 - [3835] Originally by: Cheng I'm naive becoz I trust people when t20 cheated? Conflation. All cheats are people. Most people are not cheats. If you trust ALL people when you know one or more are cheats, you are naive.
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.28 05:36:00 - [3836] Originally by: Cheng Originally by: Relaria Hossin Originally by: Cheng They were just regular players, enjoying EvE just like everyone else. And at somepoint, in those 4 years of playing, some got to be devs and some got to be gm's. These players who got hired also were allowed to keep their player accounts. There's the real problem here and like I said, everything else is the symptom of this huge conflict of interest. There is a reason no other company that runs a MMOG allows this to happen the way CCP does. Yes they are allowed to keep their accounts and they should be able to. Why is it a conflict of interest? - Those who fail are those devs/gm's who reveal their identity. So is that BoB's fault? - No. And what if some revealed their identity to players they trust. - Tbh I don't care... I don't care if someone in Goons, RAZOR etc. have dev/gm's friends on their contact list, it's their friends and they shouldn't be punished only for being true friends. LOOK UP NEAR THE TOP AT POSTS FROM DIAN, ONE OF YOUR OWN MEMBERS, OPENLY ADMITS TO USING MSN FOR THOSE VERY THINGS WHICH IS BY DEFINITION CHETING IN GAME AND IS LISTED HERE BY THEM
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 05:38:00 - [3837] That is a lie, the leaders of bob knew about t20. You guys are on ts with him everyday. It is impossible for someone to keep that to himself for on year. I am absolutely sure that bob leadership knew everything about what t20 did.
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.05.28 05:40:00 - [3838] What does it matter who is friends with whom? Are we ever going to really know what happened here? Honestly people.. we are not going to know. Just separate devs from players and be done with it. Otherwise this will, without doubt, happen again. Strike 3 is generally fatal in most things. The threadnaught was bad, but the spreadnaught is far far worse. This story has spread everywhere now and will probably hit the major game sites by month end. That is what the opportunity, potential, and appearance of impropriety gives you. It is irrelevant if it happened or not as the damage has been done. Fix the root cause and move on CCP.
Igus	Posted - 2007.05.28 05:43:00 - [3839] Edited by: Igus on 28/05/2007 05:41:59 Honestly is anyone surprised by these things. I mean really eve has become a game that the best way to succeed is to lie, cheat, and steal. It doesn't surprise me in the least that players and even devs(potentially) would stoop to these levels to get ahead.
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 05:47:00 - [3840] Edited by: MehTheTrader on 28/05/2007 05:46:37 Devs should be taken out of eve completely. BoB leaders have no integreity and have showed that they will use bugs/cheats/devs to get their way. If devs continue being part of eve, I can only assume that the head of this entire game is a bob leader.
Mileionaha GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 05:51:00 - [3841] Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me. And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that. "But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind. The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault. Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at. The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase. This deserves reposting. snip Don't use your signature to troll. -Rauth
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.05.28 06:00:00 - [3842] Response to the claim of CCP deleting petitions.
Igus	Posted - 2007.05.28 06:03:00 - [3843] Originally by: Namingway Response to the claim of CCP deleting petitions. Yeah imo thats nothing more than a bunch of bs.
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.28 06:24:00 - [3844] I hate to say this but I've had petitions out right deleted by ccp when I've filed them without them being answered so I know their lying out right when they say that can't be done.....
Reithan Caldari Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.28 06:35:00 - [3845] I've had petitions go "bye-bye" or "poof" or whatever you wanna call it, too. I dunno if they get deleted, glitch out and disappear, or are flagged so somehow they're no longer visible to me. But, at times petitions I've create have gone missing from my view. I don't think there was anything sinister at work, as they were fairly un-important petitions...but petitions DO go away sometimes.
Mel Nalsek	Posted - 2007.05.28 06:40:00 - [3846] Originally by: Reithan I've had petitions go "bye-bye" or "poof" or whatever you wanna call it, too. I dunno if they get deleted, glitch out and disappear, or are flagged so somehow they're no longer visible to me. But, at times petitions I've create have gone missing from my view. I don't think there was anything sinister at work, as they were fairly un-important petitions...but petitions DO go away sometimes. That's impossible; you must be lying. Get out.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 06:47:00 - [3847] and the wonderful single shard server shows its soap-opera complications again
Orchestrax Caldari The SMITE Brotherhood Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 06:49:00 - [3848] I smell a cover up coming, CCP are you gonna once again say blah blah can't be proved nothing to see here move along. That is not going to work this time. You have lost a ton of trust here and unless we get a full disclosure of dev activity on all accounts here expect this to happen again and again and again dragging your name into the mud rightly or just by paranoia. Regardless don't try what you did with T20 or your problems will grow 10x, count on it.
ssorion Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.05.28 06:52:00 - [3849] Edited by: ssorion on 28/05/2007 06:51:45 Wheee, page 149. Now really important matter here, will it reach page 200 or not ? Edit, fixed page number. Something wrong with my math O.o
Radar Rat SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2007.05.28 07:03:00 - [3850] Am i the only person that has a problem with internal affairs investigating the allegations ?... They work for CCP, so its a bit like a criminal being the judge at his own court case. We can already guess that the rest of the allegations will be dismissed anyway, probably because of lack of evidence.. there have been allegations against CCP in one shape or form since i joined eve back in 2004, i remember how some Curse alliance members used to talk about CCP having alts in fountain alliance, but nothing was ever proven. And now of course we keep seeing similar allegations concerning BoB, im a great believer in the old saying "theres no smoke without fire", or basically that theres normally atleast some element of truth in the allegations. Its highly unlikely that every single GM is 100% honest 100% of the time, it would be a bit like expecting everyone you meet in RL to be honest, and we know of course thats not the case, and it wouldn't really be an issue if a small amount of corruption was happening at an individual level, but when its at alliance level its a different matter. Unfortunately even if there is corruption in eve, it would be almost impossible to prove, for instance its very unlikely that any GM would admit to having direct links to BoB via MSN, and because its an out of game tool there would be no logs and therefore impossible to prove. I think its highly likely that theres atleast some corruption within eve, its only human nature, and what we are seeing is only the odd ocasion when we find out about it, what about the rest of the time when we never hear about the events. When i was in ASCN, and we were fighting BoB, we kept seeing strange stuff happening, and alot of the time it felt as if the deck was stacked against us regardless of how well or bad we were as an alliance, but whenever BoB were acused of anything the forum warriors would come on and simply deny it, i imagine the goons are now experiancing the same situation. Its a shame if it turns out that BoB are really cheating, it would mean that any alliance that fights them have already lost before the fighting starts, to lose a fight because you've made mistakes is one thing but to lose because CCP are helping the enemy is another matter altogether. ---------------------------------------------- The early bird may catch the worm, but its the second rat that gets the cheese !!!
LeeMajors Disciples Of The Night	Posted - 2007.05.28 07:15:00 - [3851] Honestly, I don't understand the problem that CCP is having. This is an issue of integrity. BoB members openly flaunt the fact that they have developers on IM and use it as an instant petition system. That alone should cause the dev in question and the person who used the IM as a petition system to lose their accounts. In an open sandbox environment where players' actions determine in-game events, direct unmonitored access to the developers is a massive advantage. All contact is one sided without any sort of trail for other developers to at least review. What the hell are you thinking, CCP? That you didn't have any sort of policy in place before the t20 incident is borderline unethical but after allowing even the appearance of impropriety is down right crossing the line you yourselves made. All this press should at the very least scare off potential investors because you don't seem to have control over your own staff, let alone allowing non-investors access to proprietary information prior to release and access to developers that affects the product. How the hell did Band of Brainsurgeons become the wunderkind of the Eve Universe? I mean, they are making you look like chumps for picking them as the golden boys of Eve.
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.28 07:23:00 - [3852] Originally by: Vantras Edited by: Vantras on 27/05/2007 21:47:16 Page 12, post 345... Post that alone on any major gaming site..with an explanation as to who Dianbolic is and what BOB is in this game..... You dont need anything else. Not the petition about sharkbait, not the ISD guy getting fired, nothing. Just that THE major alliance in EVE, responsible for total domination is completely cozy with thier "FRIENDS" the developers in game and out of game. Add to it CCP's policy of fully encouraging thier devs/gm's to not only play the game but to actively particpate in fleet commanding, politics, trading, building ships, etc etc.. just add that...erase all the goonie accusations--use Dianbolics own words and CCP's own policy...that will be enough for CCP's to enjoy the reputation its currently developing. QFT.. its messed up... makes you wonder why bob has been so successfull all this time, a big fleet fight, send a MSN about reinforcing nodes to prepare for them, other "alliances" might have to petition and wait xx hours? huge ingame advantage. also having devs/gms or ISD on msn can provide with very vital information.. "just because" bob denyes it and CCP probably also will doesnt mean it hasnt happened or could, we will never get to see the "real" facts.. i dont hate anyone, i just think its extremely lack of word to have "friends" on MSN like this... did bob earn their success entirely to themselves? realy?? i cant be convinced thats the case when they have a "list of friends" they can "be friends" with.. being friends often means doing something for eatchother.. BJ or backrubb, lending cash or other help.. lending information and/or anything else is serious, yet bob seem to take it with easy as they all know its not true... how do they know that? their CEO says so? ive not seen alliance defence against this kind of thing before but their all like in "we havent done anything" mode... not normal reactions IMO so bob smells for the moment, and worse so does CCP.. they cannot prove this has not happened, and it will hurt. if they acted more like omfg our alliance has cheaters and quit the alliance for the cause or do anything to find out the truth. but their reactions are, ofc we havent done anything, my alliance are angels. sure we got special contacts on our MSN's, its not like its illigal or anything... sure its not, but to me it kinda rings alot of bells basicly hearing that stuff... ill wait for the attemts to prove it has not accured.. personal puppets that gives them information or insta access petitions... it is impossible to prove their innocent and i understand it, but there are ways to help "innocence" come out, and thats not by saying stuff like: yea sure we have a contact list with "friends"... bob will have to get rid of the smell, and its basicly impossible.. i wish you good luck incase its all bull**. but if its not, BOB** ruined eve, not goons, they just revealed the wrongdoings.. i suspect a STFU goon-alt responce from a bob pilot fairly quick because their not even concerned about the real issue.. .... im just an evul alt, neither bob nor goon.. i can be goonbob for 1 bill though... --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 07:27:00 - [3853] Senior GM's can indeed delete petitions. I'm sure i'm not alone in having experienced this myself, Mind you the times i've had them deleted was because i was being an ******* via the petition system but it just goes to show that either Kieron is lying or does not know how his game works.
Wisegirl Core Excavation Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.28 07:29:00 - [3854] Originally by: Stahlregen Senior GM's can indeed delete petitions. I'm sure i'm not alone in having experienced this myself, Mind you the times i've had them deleted was because i was being an ***** via the petition system but it just goes to show that either Kieron is lying or does not know how his game works. Or use your brian goon**s - it was closed NOT deleted
Radar Rat SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2007.05.28 07:33:00 - [3855] Yeah, it seems odd to me as well that internal affairs would make the claim that petitions can't be deleted, what happens when they get flooded with petitions, or after a petition has been addressed, does it just sit on thier computers forever ?... So are we to believe that they still have petitions dating back to when the game was in beta because they can't delete them, it seems unrealistic and doesn't ring true.. ---------------------------------------------- The early bird may catch the worm, but its the second rat that gets the cheese !!!
BrainDrain	Posted - 2007.05.28 07:41:00 - [3856] not gonna post until it's over 150 pages
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:08:00 - [3857] Originally by: Wisegirl Originally by: Stahlregen Senior GM's can indeed delete petitions. I'm sure i'm not alone in having experienced this myself, Mind you the times i've had them deleted was because i was being an ***** via the petition system but it just goes to show that either Kieron is lying or does not know how his game works. Or use your brian goons - it was closed NOT deleted Right, because I totally said closed and not deleted. Quote:** brian Smoooooth
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:08:00 - [3858] Edited by: Alias11 on 28/05/2007 08:06:40 I've had petitions deleted outright. I don't have the character anymore, but I know I've lost them. They were old, closed ones but they were deleted I WILL KILL YOU STAHLREGEN
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:12:00 - [3859] Originally by: Gerrard Knight Originally by: Katherine Howard If CCP doesn't take their players seriously with these kind of accusations why don't the players just chip in money and sue CCP for not providing a level playing ground? I'm sure with the incredibly large player base that enough money could easily be pooled together in a short amount of time to hire a lawyer and handle this professionally. What do the people think of this post? Worthless, pointless, idiotic. And I'm ANTI-CCP in this situation.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:15:00 - [3860] Originally by: Gerrard Knight Originally by: Katherine Howard If CCP doesn't take their players seriously with these kind of accusations why don't the players just chip in money and sue CCP for not providing a level playing ground? I'm sure with the incredibly large player base that enough money could easily be pooled together in a short amount of time to hire a lawyer and handle this professionally. What do the people think of this post? I think that the EULA will protect CCP entirely from any crap like that. This isnt america, home of the ambulance chaser. It's their playground and they can do what they like in it. They dont have to tell you anything that they dont want too. We are customers and have signed away our "rights"
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:16:00 - [3861] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Gerrard Knight Originally by: Katherine Howard If CCP doesn't take their players seriously with these kind of accusations why don't the players just chip in money and sue CCP for not providing a level playing ground? I'm sure with the incredibly large player base that enough money could easily be pooled together in a short amount of time to hire a lawyer and handle this professionally. What do the people think of this post? Worthless, pointless, idiotic. And I'm ANTI-CCP in this situation. Suing CCP is in the trifecta of inconceivably terrible ideas along with "Ban all of bob for being cheaters" and "ban all of Goonswarm for DDoSing/Interweb Slander/Ruining CCP's reputation because we're made we can't beat bob(whichever it is)"
Gerrard Knight	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:16:00 - [3862] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Gerrard Knight Originally by: Katherine Howard If CCP doesn't take their players seriously with these kind of accusations why don't the players just chip in money and sue CCP for not providing a level playing ground? I'm sure with the incredibly large player base that enough money could easily be pooled together in a short amount of time to hire a lawyer and handle this professionally. What do the people think of this post? Worthless, pointless, idiotic. And I'm ANTI-CCP in this situation. Yeah I guess it is a bit drasitc.... Just wanted to know what others thought.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:18:00 - [3863] This is interesting, very interesting! Originally by: ZeroForce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- theres a goddamn good point "GM's are forbidden to handle petitions of alliances they are involved in" oh yeh well they dont they just MSN a dev to sort it dont they? also Kieron WAS a BoB member (possibly still) and DID either lie or be blatently blind about the whole T20 incident i personally think we should have a DIFFERENT communtiy manager for CCP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- keiron was a BoB member? And which char was he? Don't tell me you actually think kieron is that evol guy who's name can be rearranged to spell 'kieron'. That's asking people to swallow a rather large amount of idiot juice. Maybe he owned the account back then but sold it or whatever back when that was still allowed. I know if I had gotten an account and found out TomB or some other dev once owned it, I'd probably have a char named "Tom the hugmaster" or something goofy like that to refer to him. The re-arranging of letters in 'TomB' wouldn't give very good names. Originally by: CCP kieron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:19:00 - [3864] Originally by: Alias11 Edited by: Alias11 on 28/05/2007 08:06:40 I've had petitions deleted outright. I don't have the character anymore, but I know I've lost them. They were old, closed ones but they were deleted I WILL KILL YOU STAHLREGEN You not seeing them in you petition list doesn't mean they're deleted from CCP's systems. Accept that your bosses lied about this to try to hurt the game.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:20:00 - [3865] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Gerrard Knight Originally by: Katherine Howard If CCP doesn't take their players seriously with these kind of accusations why don't the players just chip in money and sue CCP for not providing a level playing ground? I'm sure with the incredibly large player base that enough money could easily be pooled together in a short amount of time to hire a lawyer and handle this professionally. What do the people think of this post? I think that the EULA will protect CCP entirely from any crap like that. This isnt america, home of the ambulance chaser. It's their playground and they can do what they like in it. They dont have to tell you anything that they dont want too. We are customers and have signed away our "rights" EULAs tend to fall apart in any court, no matter where. The case would exist that the product was defective or that the operators of it were criminally negligent, but it would be ********. A case could be made, but you'd be laughed out of court for suing for 15 bucks because the guys who made the internet spaceship game were cheating, just like how ingame spies make use of illegal social engineering methods, but there's no way you'd ever get someone convicted
Iwannah Spankjoo	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:20:00 - [3866] Originally by: MehTheTrader Edited by: MehTheTrader on 28/05/2007 05:46:37 Devs should be taken out of eve completely. BoB leaders have no integreity and have showed that they will use bugs/cheats/devs to get their way. If devs continue being part of eve, I can only assume that the head of this entire game is a bob leader. That is old new that BoB Leaders do that, very, very old news indeed, but CCP never have done anything about it, and when they do (If they do) it will be to late.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:24:00 - [3867] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Alias11 Edited by: Alias11 on 28/05/2007 08:06:40 I've had petitions deleted outright. I don't have the character anymore, but I know I've lost them. They were old, closed ones but they were deleted I WILL KILL YOU STAHLREGEN You not seeing them in you petition list doesn't mean they're deleted from CCP's systems. Accept that your bosses lied about this to try to hurt the game.... If this is the argument you're actually going to make here then I really don't know what to say. The Petition regarding the matter was apparently deleted from CEO Pyrex's petition folder without a response, and at that point there's no real way to get a response since the petition is no longer in the box, hence, for all applicable purposes here, it was deleted, it doesn't matter if that particular string of ones and zeroes is sitting on a server somewhere doing nothing.
Gerrard Knight	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:25:00 - [3868] I just hope CCP solves this problem. Maybe bob and gs should create an alliance?
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:28:00 - [3869] Originally by: Gerrard Knight I just hope CCP solves this problem. Maybe bob and gs should create an alliance? snip Please don't engage in personal attacks. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Sam Reynolds Caldari Blue Sun Holdings Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:29:00 - [3870] Originally by: Radar Rat Am i the only person that has a problem with internal affairs investigating the allegations ?... They work for CCP, so its a bit like a criminal being the judge at his own court case. No offense, but who else would have the ability, the authority, or honestly give a crap to investigate? And who outside of CCP would be able to act upon any findings? IT'S A GAME, albeit a very cool one that players feel passionate enough about to post 150 pages of drivel (myself now included). IMHO, it is at most idiotic and at least a sad waste of time to accuse/attack the makers of a game in such a way. It's their game, they created it. The game is as well developed as it is because the company has been so passionate about the game. Anyone who feels cheated should realize that you are only renting a small amount of server space and bandwidth from CCP, and that you are free to discontinue that arrangement at anytime. And proposals that devs shouldn't be able to play the game they created? Give me a break - if anyone with that thought in their head is even capable of slinging code (I am), how fun would it be to create such a great game and not be able to experience it yourself? I could see dev (and associated role) churn happening at a high level, which always leads to a compromised product. I am glad that employees USE THE PRODUCT and are passionate enough about it to always be improving it, because they want to see it improved. All this CCP bashing is like hating God for giving you a crappy life. This isn't helping any of us. Move on or move out. P.S. Radar Rat - not an attack on you at all, just a good stepping off point for my $.02
Gerrard Knight	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:30:00 - [3871] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Gerrard Knight I just hope CCP solves this problem. Maybe bob and gs should create an alliance? Hi. Stay on topic please. I dont want to know what goes through your brain before you post this kind of crap. With all due respect it was just a random thought. No need to get heated up about it.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:36:00 - [3872] They have a program code of more than 1 billion pages, the developers of that kind of project are for sure top of the planet IT guys and could work for NASA or NSA and now they want to make us belive that this guys can not delete a petition because there is no tool for it! must be really hard to delete data from a computer if you are the database admin. LOL I am speechless, that one saved my day!
MacGrowler III Ginger Corp Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:39:00 - [3873] I don't want to get in the debate of right / wrong or true / false. I decided to post here just to register my concern and say to CCP that YOU HAVE A PROBLEM ! Whether the problem is based in fact OR just a perceived problem, it is still a problem non the less. having, at the time I write this, 150 pages of comments on this issue, it is clear your current procedures do not seem to address the issue or a lack of confidence in your player base. I am quite happy to state that I will NOT immediately cancel my subscription but you should remember that EVE will only continue to be successful while your current player base enjoys EVE and TRUSTS you to operate a fair and just universe. Cheers n Beers MacG PS. Anyone who is leaving - Can I have your Stuff ?
MrJordanIOI Minmatar The Lantern Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:39:00 - [3874] Originally by: Gerrard Knight Originally by: Katherine Howard If CCP doesn't take their players seriously with these kind of accusations why don't the players just chip in money and sue CCP for not providing a level playing ground? I'm sure with the incredibly large player base that enough money could easily be pooled together in a short amount of time to hire a lawyer and handle this professionally. What do the people think of this post? I am not sure whether the EULA makes this request an invalid one or not. Basically what Kieron seems to have said holds true sadly. Originally by: CCP kieron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs. IOI
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:52:00 - [3875] Can atleast idiots stop talking about suing CCP, we all know your talking out of your ass. You havent been scolded by hot coffe at McDonnalds, so stop acting like you are in the US. The EULA pretty much pwns any hope you have of suing so stop barking like a little puppy. -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:58:00 - [3876] What do you all other players think, what we have seen so far is this Arkanoid guy from IA any good? Can he solve the problem? Or is he involved in the cover up?
Eviloution	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:59:00 - [3877] (forums) Your 425mm 'fact' Cannon perfectly strikes Goon Propeganda, wrecking for much tears damage.
Nikos Iscariot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:00:00 - [3878] Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 28/05/2007 09:02:24 Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 28/05/2007 09:01:30 Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 28/05/2007 08:59:14 Originally by: Wisegirl Originally by: Stahlregen Senior GM's can indeed delete petitions. I'm sure i'm not alone in having experienced this myself, Mind you the times i've had them deleted was because i was being an ***** via the petition system but it just goes to show that either Kieron is lying or does not know how his game works. Or use your brian goon**s - it was closed NOT deleted Sounds like we could all afford to use our Brians more.
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:03:00 - [3879] Getting close to 4500 posts at 150 pages. Granted a lot of them are of the RETORT COUNTER-RETORT QUESTIONS ABOUT INTELLIGENCE <CENSORED> BRIAN HURT U-SELF kind but a few really have a point. Heck even with just one valid point per page we have 150 goid points. Obviously, 'noone is being forced to play (well maybe isk farmer slaves) and if you don't like it just leave' is a valid point that many have made. Then again the 'I am paying for this game too, it should be a level playing field' is a pretty valid point too I feel. Everytime you let GM's, Devs, anyone with inside information play in the game they have power over you're just asking for trouble. When you can have influence on the game to benefit you and yours it's kinda human nature to abuse your power in some way. Upbringing and sense of honour and fairness will dampen that nature.. but in the end.. we're all just weak squiashy humans eh.. How can you ever trust CCP again? A few ways: easiest is to just convince yourself nothing bad has happened. You can also just know that there will always be a few rotten apples but most of them are decent people. Same goes for BoB. This of course is a little harder for most of us, especially when the general consensus seems to be that the top is where most of those rotten apples are. Paranoia is also quite a normal trait in most people, so I feel for all the normal people in CCP, BoB and the Goonies, who will be looked at with the most negative impressions at whatever they do. It's a shame really, some people have just blown it for the rest of you. I'm just glad none of this frelled up stuff is happening in high sec, because there are only carebear CCP-ers there, however I'm pretty sad the devs keep pushing everyone to low sec.. Everytime I think of getting back to low sec I'm reminded of all these 'weird' things happening and I just can't be arsed really. All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Gerrard Knight	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:04:00 - [3880] Originally by: Richard Johannson What do you all other players think, what we have seen so far is this Arkanoid guy from IA any good? Can he solve the problem? Or is he involved in the cover up? As far as I can tell from reading the thread(and reading between the lines) is that corps seem to be taking their war beyond the walls of the game into the real world which is creating a lot of hatred between themselves and that it's probably a matter of time until some ****** up lunatic takes a shotgun to CCP and blows the devs and mods apart.
Iron McFly CHAF tech	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:06:00 - [3881] For those who don't get the Law Suit Angle: ( I write this to scare CCP straight - I truely hope no one starts such a thing. ) 1) CCP may headquarter in Iceland but American customers pay through U.S. banking - Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, etc. - all within U.S. Federal jurisdiction. 2) The 'just a game' thing is a non-starter. It's a MMOG Game Business. Anytime a customer pays $ for a product or service that is not what it was represented to be, or even assumed to be, there is a case, like others, day after day in this country saying it is the company that should have made things clear, or not taken the $ under false pretence. Examples range from cigarettes which already had Federally mandated warning labels to Sports Memorabilia that were not labeled completely honestly. When a hungry class action lawyer stands up and says, 'I am filing on behalf of 100,000 U.S. customers who spent $120 last year, I have a 12 Million Dollar case.' your defence had better be more than, 'It's just a game.' or 'Smoke' or 'Baseball Cards.' 3) That "Players agreed to 'bla bla bla' agreement when they installed EVE Online." will not stop an American judge or jury (see above examples). This country is no longer 'corporate friendly.' Now the attitude is that corporations and government need to protect people - even from themselves, even if they signed or clicked something. Any user agreement is pale in the light of questions such as, "Did the MMOG player expect a level and fair playing field ?" "Is a level and fair system 'Ordinary and Customary' in the industry?" "Did CCP fail to meet the standards one might expect ? (without having to read the excuses and exemptions they would like to give themselves in 'the fine print')" 4) Do the math - anytime 35% of the case would pay a U.S. law office's wages for 18-24 months - they smell enough blood to come like wolves. Here in Wisconsin, I got paperwork in the mail this past year because MicroSoft had been sued and lost on some sort of class action against Win-ME being over priced. The case was done and all I had to do was sign on, as they'd got my name and address from MS records, it was 5% or $5 - idk - I tossed it out thinking 'thank God we don't have 3-15 different Op. Sys. on PCs in this country like Amiga, Apple, RadioShack-Tandy, Texas Instruments, yikes.' Anybody with legal experience and knowledge in the U.S. - Please refine these rough 'know-it-all' comments.
szill	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:09:00 - [3882] Hi All, I'm followed this game closely for the last year. Here are some ideas how can the CCP do something with the accusation. As I see the problem is that ther is no transparency in the behavior of the employees in the game. 1. Give a regular log, in which alliances are the CCP employees. Not a list of character names, but numbers (for example: AnAliance: 6 developers, 1 manager, 1 IA and so on) eventually with the total skill points in that alliance. Maybe this would resolve the problem, that some of us thinks all of the employees are in BOB. 2. Give a regular log, what the developers are doing in game during work (when they are payed for doing this) eventually with some links to petition numbers (not revealing the petition content) and the activity (if this list is not against some player/corporation/alliance). Thanks for listening.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:09:00 - [3883] Gee guys, to bad about your witch hunt starting to unravel. Better luck next time. Lucky for you that such conspiracy theor..... I mean detectives can always find some "proof".
Nikos Iscariot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:14:00 - [3884] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Gee guys, to bad about your witch hunt starting to unravel. Better luck next time. Lucky for you that such conspiracy theor..... I mean detectives can always find some "proof". Unravel? Is there some new word about the situation on MSN?
Marisal	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:16:00 - [3885] Seeing as initial accusations made by a player alliance are now starting to unravel can we talk about the repercussions on the player alliance namely deleting said alliances player accounts permanently from the game, or banning those that posted on the forums last week.
Frannkie	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:18:00 - [3886] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Thus, there's absolutely no reason for you to be here, abusing people who have a right to talk here. Sincerely, Andreus I have a right to talk here too, non? I didnt really want to comment on the ping pong thats going back and fro, but would like to pick up on the fact that every single post made by avon has either been flame / trolling. This response is just pure simple 'i am better and more important than you' - forum mods please if you are snipping other posters then you should treat everyone with the same stick... because this guy is doing nothing but winding everyone up. Tbh Avon you are doing BOB no favors with the way you act on these forums. And as for the current situation the questions still need answering 1) why is there a 'link', call it MSN, between ccp & bob members. OR any other alliance member for that ! after the last mess it was made clear that there shouldn't be any link .... This clearly shows favourism towards these people. I and others have to wait days for petitions to be answered and these guys get the 10 min response to an issue ... this is not right and anyone involved should receive perma bans 2) RP being rigged is not fair. I have been on an event where it was clearly obvious that others were in the know about it and appeared at the location where the 'gold' was thus the guys running around doing the stages leading upto the 'rewarsd' moment got feck all There were also some serious issues that got left behind from the last ccp scandal. Most noticably where certain members of BoB had clearly broken game rules are still playing the game a) the issue of real life information being posted on forums b) account sharing c) ebay accounts so no wonder people are going ape over the current affairs when it is clear that older ones have yet to be dealt with in the proper manner. so ccp you are certainly caught between a rock and hard place. if this issue isnt cleared this time as someone already said, the only people left playing will be bob and the bobits ......
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:32:00 - [3887] Originally by: Iron McFly When a hungry class action lawyer stands up and says, 'I am filing on behalf of 100,000 U.S. customers who spent $120 last year, I have a 12 Million Dollar case.' your defence had better be more than, 'It's just a game.' or 'Smoke' or 'Baseball Cards.' Yeah, only US law has no juradiciton in Iceland or anywhere else for that matter. Quote: 3) That "Players agreed to 'bla bla bla' agreement when they installed EVE Online." will not stop an American judge or jury (see above examples). Do you honestly think anyone cares? -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:34:00 - [3888] Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Originally by: Sergeant Spot Gee guys, to bad about your witch hunt starting to unravel. Better luck next time. Lucky for you that such conspiracy theor..... I mean detectives can always find some "proof". Unravel? Is there some new word about the situation on MSN? We "know" that a pro goon ISD was bumping anti goon dreads, getting directly involved in game supporting one group of players (sort of what the goons were accusing CCP and BoB of doing, imagin that.....) We "know" that bob accelerated having that investigated so they could have a clean in game fight. Yeah, I'll accept that. Your side seems strangly selective. Sadly normal for goons. You'll also note that the ONLY charge that was never denied is the only one left, but ALL your other charges have smashed back in your face. And even on the remaining charge, you sure are strangly selective. After, anything that reflects badly on goons is not relavent to the investigation. Go ahead, look back to my first posts here, before your witch started falling apart. You might notice the MSN part is mentioned (although with goons, I'd still want it confirmed and reconfirmed. I remember the first time I chatted with your kind).
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:40:00 - [3889] Goons don't have a leg to stand on tbh when it comes to cheating and as this goes further along, it is becoming increasingly obvious that it is just propoganda to hurt bob. Where was all the paladins of truth and justice when goons hacked there clients to show blues and reds in local before it was an addition to the game? If bob did that you guys would be screaming blue murder. That's pretty much what this all boils down to.I mean seriously, when someone talks of sueing a game because they can't win it, i seriously think that is the time they should step away from the keyboard and go walk and talk with friends about rl and such. I love this game also, have seen many shifty things from my enemies, especially goons but i don't complain about it. That's one of the most peculiar things about this all, the goons are almost famous for cheating / dirty tatics / RL smack but are trying to paint themselves as 'the light' . Disturbing mental picture to be perfectly honest. This propoganda you guys are trying to spin is unravelling at an increasing rate, adn the side claims are getting more fantastic as it goes along. If you don't like the game , leave it. I personally don't care because there are certain elements in this game which do not care about the health of the game or the community at all. I have heard stories of how they have infested other games and griefed people and bought games down 'for a laugh'. This thread has gone 150 odd pages but the same things are being said over and over again, just let IA do there investigation and clear the matter up, one way or another BoB vs the coalition of family values
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:40:00 - [3890] Edited by: Muff Joos on 28/05/2007 09:43:01 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Originally by: Sergeant Spot We "know" that bob accelerated having that investigated Yeah, I'll accept that. You continue to admit to BoB/CCP collusion. Your alliance apears to be so accustomed to it you've forgotten that it's wrong.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:46:00 - [3891] Originally by: Muff Joos Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Originally by: Sergeant Spot Gee guys, to bad about your witch hunt starting to unravel. Better luck next time. Lucky for you that such conspiracy theor..... I mean detectives can always find some "proof". Unravel? Is there some new word about the situation on MSN? We "know" that a pro goon ISD was bumping anti goon dreads, getting directly involved in game supporting one group of players (sort of what the goons were accusing CCP and BoB of doing, imagin that.....) We "know" that bob accelerated having that investigated so they could have a clean in game fight. Yeah, I'll accept that. Your side seems strangly selective. Sadly normal for goons. You'll also note that the ONLY charge that was never denied is the only one left, but ALL your other charges have smashed back in your face. And even on the remaining charge, you sure are strangly selective. After, anything that reflects badly on goons is not relavent to the investigation. Go ahead, look back to my first posts here, before your witch started falling apart. You might notice the MSN part is mentioned (although with goons, I'd still want it confirmed and reconfirmed. I remember the first time I chatted with your kind). You continue to admit to BoB/CCP collusion. Your alliance apears to be so accustomed to it you've forgotten that it's wrong. LOL LOL and LOL AGAIN, such selectivity. If you read back on the old posts, both here and in other parts of the forum, you'll find that I and other pro bob folks have repeatedly called it wrong. Its been called wrong on the bob internal forums. And you ignore the parts that reflect badly on goons AGAIN. Why am I not surprised. Perhaps because if the whole issue was examined, you'd come out looking a lot worse than bob??? Nah, that couldn't be it, not a chance..... To bad about your witch hunt.....
Nevada Tan	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:46:00 - [3892] Edited by: Nevada Tan on 28/05/2007 09:45:31 Originally by: fire 59 BoB don't have a leg to stand on tbh when it comes to cheating... Fixed. T20 got moved to your pet Coreli corp, right? Have they mysteriously acquired any new T2 BPOs recently...out of interest?
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:52:00 - [3893] Originally by: Sergeant Spot We "know" that a pro goon ISD was bumping anti goon dreads, getting directly involved in game supporting one group of players (sort of what the goons were accusing CCP and BoB of doing, imagin that.....) It's amazing how we went from "Unaffiliated Empire RPer on his ISD character may or may not have bumped a (1) dread on accident before orbiting the battlefield at standard distance" to "Goon ISD member bumps bob dreads in deliberate attempt to interfere with the game".
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:54:00 - [3894] Originally by: Nevada Tan Edited by: Nevada Tan on 28/05/2007 09:45:31 Originally by: fire 59 goons don't have a leg to stand on tbh when it comes to cheating... Fixed. T20 got moved to your pet Coreli corp, right? Have they mysteriously acquired any new T2 BPOs recently...out of interest? You just did exactly what i was talking about and i doubt you even noticed you did it. It's a fascinating thing to watch when someone is brainwashed and drowned in there own hatred, the lenghs they will cluch at straws is truly remarkable BoB vs the coalition of family values
OozoO Caldari Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:55:00 - [3895] Originally by: Nevada Tan T20 got moved to your pet Coreli corp, right? Have they mysteriously acquired any new T2 BPOs recently...out of interest? they dont need t2 bpos anymore, you can farm the 1938329382 complexes in delve quite conveniently. oh wait - those stupid russians .. naah, remove static complexes and make them exploration plexes, dianabolic can then do the exploit err .. exploration via MSN Do not discuss moderator actions or troll in your sig. -Kaemonn Email if you understand and your sig will be unlocked.([email protected])
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:56:00 - [3896] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Muff Joos Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Originally by: Sergeant Spot LOL LOL and LOL AGAIN, such selectivity. If you read back on the old posts, both here and in other parts of the forum, you'll find that I and other pro bob folks have repeatedly called it wrong. Its been called wrong on the bob internal forums. It's been called right by Dianabolic, a spokesperson for your alliance.
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.28 10:15:00 - [3897] Originally by: Cheng Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Cheng As I've stated before, I don't care if someone has a dev/gm friend on his contact list. I'd say it's a advantige to have someone who trusts you enough to even tell you that he is a dev. This is not proof of any ingame cheating. Again, having a dev on MSN doesn't prove you have cheated. But it certainly would be easy to do it having the means now would it. "Again, having a dev on MSN doesn't prove you have cheated" - I rest my case. Yes it does. That's exactly what it means.
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.28 10:24:00 - [3898] Originally by: fire 59 Goons don't have a leg to stand on tbh when it comes to cheating and as this goes further along, it is becoming increasingly obvious that it is just propoganda to hurt bob. Where was all the paladins of truth and justice when goons hacked there clients to show blues and reds in local before it was an addition to the game? If bob did that you guys would be screaming blue murder. I have heard stories of how they have infested other games and griefed people and bought games down 'for a laugh'. This thread has gone 150 odd pages but the same things are being said over and over again, just let IA do there investigation and clear the matter up, one way or another Blame CCP for allowing Goons to get away with the local hack.Why was action not taken against those that used this? You've 'heard' that Goons have 'infested' other games and ruined them 'for a laugh'.Would you care to provide proof of this?What games?What have they done?I'm leaving Eve and would like to know which games have not been tainted by the Goon mentality.
Inosin Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.28 10:27:00 - [3899] Bob can intentionally kill a Titan by abusing the logoff mechanic and no Gm come and punish for using exploit he come and congrat them. No one can have Rigs in his Titan , Bob have. No one can ask a gm or dev for a favor and Bob has a special line and gms banned player which where not wanted somewhere Bob got t2 Bpo stuff Bob got informationen (imagine for yourself how often and what) and that is much worse than all other. Alone the possibility of knowing client login mechanics, Plex spawning and game development earlier than other entinities is worth much more then few Titans or Bpo. Now the half of 0.0 dont risk to fight them and hide behind to benefit and everyone who risk to fight them is slaugered again and again with capitalbattles wich are always 10+ to 0 Kills for Bob , (sure the only reason is the "Skill" to hit the highslotbuttons at the right time. Would someone like a Soccer or Tennis mach knowing that the referee is best friend of one party? I have stopped playing eve think some other will too, Bob you can eve Eve for yourself have fun with it but i will not pay for your fun.. A bad feeling stays see ya in Hellgate London.. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed sized of 24000 bytes - Sahwoolo Etoophie
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 10:44:00 - [3900] Originally by: Muff Joos Originally by: Sergeant Spot Stuff, scroll up to read if interested It's been called right by Dianabolic, a spokesperson for your alliance. Yeah, and I and others have been calling it wrong. In my own case I've stated its a pretty mild issue, but still wrong. For those who actually pay attention there is a LONG history of CCP / Player communication using such programs, and that IS fine, even when it is BoB and CCP talking (GASP!!!!!). Whats wrong is rushing a petition. CCP has even mentioned it on Eve TV long before this (and no out cry from ANYONE until goons saw a chance for a propaganda witch hunt, gee, I wonder why......???) Go ahead, milk away on the issue. Its all you have left. Take the tasty bait, you KNOW you can use it to make the ebil bobbits look bad.....
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.28 10:55:00 - [3901] Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 28/05/2007 10:54:09 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Muff Joos Originally by: Sergeant Spot Stuff, scroll up to read if interested It's been called right by Dianabolic, a spokesperson for your alliance. Yeah, and I and others have been calling it wrong. In my own case I've stated its a pretty mild issue, but still wrong. For those who actually pay attention there is a LONG history of CCP / Player communication using such programs, and that IS fine, even when it is BoB and CCP talking (GASP!!!!!). Whats wrong is rushing a petition. CCP has even mentioned it on Eve TV long before this (and no out cry from ANYONE until goons saw a chance for a propaganda witch hunt, gee, I wonder why......???) Go ahead, milk away on the issue. Its all you have left. Take the tasty bait, you KNOW you can use it to make the ebil bobbits look bad..... Ordering ISD around in local then saying in a round about way "Yo do as i say or i'll crack open MSN and get your ass banned" and then 40 seconds later having some other ISD guy down his throat is an ocean away from "Pleasent banter". Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:00:00 - [3902] Dianabolic's gag order continues but the muzzles come off the other BoBbits ITT.
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:01:00 - [3903] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Muff Joos Originally by: Sergeant Spot Stuff, scroll up to read if interested It's been called right by Dianabolic, a spokesperson for your alliance. Yeah, and I and others have been calling it wrong. In my own case I've stated its a pretty mild issue, but still wrong. For those who actually pay attention there is a LONG history of CCP / Player communication using such programs, and that IS fine, even when it is BoB and CCP talking (GASP!!!!!). Whats wrong is rushing a petition. CCP has even mentioned it on Eve TV long before this (and no out cry from ANYONE until goons saw a chance for a propaganda witch hunt, gee, I wonder why......???) Go ahead, milk away on the issue. Its all you have left. Take the tasty bait, you KNOW you can use it to make the ebil bobbits look bad..... You continue to call it "mild" and attempt to downplay the seriuosness of the issue. That issue consists of one group of players having greater access to the game creators than all the other players. It's wrong.
Smith Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:03:00 - [3904] Edited by: Smith on 28/05/2007 11:02:06 I still think this is issue has been blown out of all proportion. For me personally I think CCP will continue to do a good job and will let us know first thing anything of note develops from this investigation. Smith
maria stallion Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:03:00 - [3905] Originally by: Smith I still think this is issue has been blown out of or proportion. For me personally I think CCP will continue to do a good job and will let us know first thing anything of note develops from this investigation. Smith I agree with that totally.
jumpnow	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:05:00 - [3906] Yer what smith said.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:08:00 - [3907] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Muff Joos Originally by: Sergeant Spot Stuff, scroll up to read if interested It's been called right by Dianabolic, a spokesperson for your alliance. Yeah, and I and others have been calling it wrong. In my own case I've stated its a pretty mild issue, but still wrong. For those who actually pay attention there is a LONG history of CCP / Player communication using such programs, and that IS fine, even when it is BoB and CCP talking (GASP!!!!!). Whats wrong is rushing a petition. CCP has even mentioned it on Eve TV long before this (and no out cry from ANYONE until goons saw a chance for a propaganda witch hunt, gee, I wonder why......???) Go ahead, milk away on the issue. Its all you have left. Take the tasty bait, you KNOW you can use it to make the ebil bobbits look bad..... Sooo, BOB actually used MSN/out of game meens to rush a petition? I never thought we would get any answeres on the MSN-scandal and poof, here it is ^-^ Now what other things has MSN yielded BoB, other then stepping in front of just about every other paying player out there in CCP-land standing in line to get their petitions processed? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
sapage1 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:09:00 - [3908] what smith said
Atreus Minmatarius Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:12:00 - [3909] Originally by: Sergeant Spot We "know" that a pro goon ISD was bumping anti goon dreads, getting directly involved in game supporting one group of players (sort of what the goons were accusing CCP and BoB of doing, imagin that.....) uh NO, we don't know that... it is just what you say. there is a difference what i say is my own opinion and does not represent any entity other than myself
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:13:00 - [3910] Originally by: Smith Edited by: Smith on 28/05/2007 11:02:06 I still think this is issue has been blown out of all proportion. For me personally I think CCP will continue to do a good job and will let us know first thing anything of note develops from this investigation. Smith Ofcourse you will know first hand, MSN has no downtime. Nothing has been blown out of propotion, BoB has the red batphone to the CCP cave. BoB's "conquests" in the past have all been questioned befor. I would think it was in BoB's and CCP's interest to get all the cards on the table, not try to play the "Well, what is done is done, it wasnt such a big deal really, we rushed a petition and thats it..". and get the matter swept under the rug. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:13:00 - [3911] BoB guys, please answer just one question: Having a petitioned answered faster than it normally would can present you with an advantage?
Scavok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:13:00 - [3912] Edited by: Scavok on 28/05/2007 11:12:36 Originally by: fire 59 I have heard stories of how they have infested other games and griefed people and bought games down 'for a laugh'. Yes, we're paying CCP on the order of $60,000 a month in subscription fees in order to bring the game down. This make complete sense, thanks for the stunning revelation.
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:14:00 - [3913] I'm amazed those sigs havn't been nerfed tbfh. It's flamebait or the highest order. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
Eviloution	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:20:00 - [3914] Edited by: Eviloution on 28/05/2007 11:19:51 Originally by: Inosin Bob can intentionally kill a Titan by abusing the logoff mechanic and no Gm come and punish for using exploit he come and congrat them. No one can have Rigs in his Titan , Bob have. No one can ask a gm or dev for a favor and Bob has a special line and gms banned player which where not wanted somewhere Bob got t2 Bpo stuff Bob got informationen (imagine for yourself how often and what) and that is much worse than all other. Alone the possibility of knowing client login mechanics, Plex spawning and game development earlier than other entinities is worth much more then few Titans or Bpo. Now the half of 0.0 dont risk to fight them and hide behind to benefit and everyone who risk to fight them is slaugered again and again with capitalbattles wich are always 10+ to 0 Kills for Bob , (sure the only reason is the "Skill" to hit the highslotbuttons at the right time. Would someone like a Soccer or Tennis mach knowing that the referee is best friend of one party? I have stopped playing eve think some other will too, Bob you can eve Eve for yourself have fun with it but i will not pay for your fun.. A bad feeling stays see ya in Hellgate London.. Proof of STFU really it is past the time for re-procussions on accusations of cheating, at the moment D2 are loosing their space as the re-procussion for accusing BoB of cheating constantly, Goons need some serious re-procussions for accusing DEV's CCP of cheating with nothing more than sensationalist propeganda thats been prooven false. I think mass bans are in order.
Kanchou Sakura	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:20:00 - [3915] Originally by: Inosin Bob can intentionally kill a Titan by abusing the logoff mechanic and no Gm come and punish for using exploit he come and congrat them. No one can have Rigs in his Titan , Bob have. No one can ask a gm or dev for a favor and Bob has a special line and gms banned player which where not wanted somewhere Bob got t2 Bpo stuff Bob got informationen (imagine for yourself how often and what) and that is much worse than all other. Alone the possibility of knowing client login mechanics, Plex spawning and game development earlier than other entinities is worth much more then few Titans or Bpo. Now the half of 0.0 dont risk to fight them and hide behind to benefit and everyone who risk to fight them is slaugered again and again with capitalbattles wich are always 10+ to 0 Kills for Bob , (sure the only reason is the "Skill" to hit the highslotbuttons at the right time. Would someone like a Soccer or Tennis mach knowing that the referee is best friend of one party? I have stopped playing eve think some other will too, Bob you can eve Eve for yourself have fun with it but i will not pay for your fun.. A bad feeling stays see ya in Hellgate London.. This sums-up all the stuff i read those couple of days, dev's/gm's playing theyre own game is "instant FAIL"! This is CLEAR favorizm ... No metter how clean the BoB/BoD is, everyone will blame GMs/DEVs for theyre success/failure in the game... You can't be a GOD and his creation in the same time, it doesn't work that way... P.S. Both accounts suspended, till i get some "real" and "official" answers... P.P.S. Sorry for spelling
Eviloution	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:21:00 - [3916] Originally by: Kanchou Sakura Originally by: Inosin Bob can intentionally kill a Titan by abusing the logoff mechanic and no Gm come and punish for using exploit he come and congrat them. No one can have Rigs in his Titan , Bob have. No one can ask a gm or dev for a favor and Bob has a special line and gms banned player which where not wanted somewhere Bob got t2 Bpo stuff Bob got informationen (imagine for yourself how often and what) and that is much worse than all other. Alone the possibility of knowing client login mechanics, Plex spawning and game development earlier than other entinities is worth much more then few Titans or Bpo. Now the half of 0.0 dont risk to fight them and hide behind to benefit and everyone who risk to fight them is slaugered again and again with capitalbattles wich are always 10+ to 0 Kills for Bob , (sure the only reason is the "Skill" to hit the highslotbuttons at the right time. Would someone like a Soccer or Tennis mach knowing that the referee is best friend of one party? I have stopped playing eve think some other will too, Bob you can eve Eve for yourself have fun with it but i will not pay for your fun.. A bad feeling stays see ya in Hellgate London.. This sums-up all the stuff i read those couple of days, dev's/gm's playing theyre own game is "instant FAIL"! This is CLEAR favorizm ... No metter how clean the BoB/BoD is, everyone will blame GMs/DEVs for theyre success/failure in the game... You can't be a GOD and his creation in the same time, it doesn't work that way... P.S. Both accounts suspended, till i get some "real" and "official" answers... P.P.S. Sorry for spelling It also happens to be complete tripe
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:24:00 - [3917] Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Sergeant Spot Interesting what is known to be true at this point. We know for a fact that Darkstar1 lied. We know for a fact that a pro-goon ISD was bumping bob dreads out of alignment. We know that bob rushed a petition to have CCP "look" at the issue. Somehow I dont feel very bad. Guess what folks, dont expect this to be the end of this crap. So long as some folks (goons and other bob haters) are witch hunting for some excuse they can twist for scandle value, they WILL find stuff now and then. Not even perfect saint behavior can stop a determined inspector from finding something to complain about, and that applies to a heck of a lot more than Eve. Whoa whoa whoa, some new evidence come to light about point two? I didn't know this ISD guy was pro-goon, nor have I seen any solid evidence that he bumped anyone. Only what people have said, and THAT is still under investigation. Don't state something as fact that is still under investigation. You'll only make yourself look ignorant. Graeyln was an Amarr Roleplay corporation member -called the Aegis Milita...WAS NOT AN ALLY OR IN ANYWAY AT ALL CONNECTED with GOONS! Simply not true...if anything Graeyln has probably killed a dozen or so of them due to thier free fire policies in Providence where AM spends some time.
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:24:00 - [3918] Do not discuss moderation on the forums please, email us instead ([email protected]). Thanks, Hango Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:27:00 - [3919] CCP should never ever work outside their own petition system, regardless of who, what how or any ingame alliance, corp or person.. It totally makes a mockery of their internal processes, if one can do it all should.. There is no "well we exposed an ISD person blahh blahh blahh", Bob used an inappropiate means of communications to bypass ingame systems that 99.9% of other players are forced to used. There is no excuse for that, personally i dont give a flying ** about ingame politics, this is clear and proven** abuse of friendly connections with Dev's. And this is one time it has come to light, I would bet that this is not the only time.. This on its own has prmpted me like many other players to cancel all of my ingame subscriptions 4 aacounts. Admittedly does it make a big difference to CCP doubt it.
Jazeki	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:28:00 - [3920] Originally by: sapage1 what smith said Up until now, both this and the whole t20 fiasco, I was able to look at it as a few bad apples. But seeing the cute cppphone sigs you guys are coming up with in BoB - just shows absolutely no respect to your fellow players.
Ashraaf Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:31:00 - [3921] Does it's the role of "Admiral something" to: - Determine if a ISD member done wrong or not? and fire him - Determine that a kill is legit and give felicitation to an alliance? then force CCP to accept the kill or go against the decision of one of their dev. All both thing appear that it's a direct communication between people in alliance and a Dev. Each dev have a job and this is very strange that someone go to check lag (Official post on forum) + In charge of ISD member + In charge of validation of a kill in the game. The Out of game communication and immediate intervention of Admiral chan... are very curious. That the point i'm waiting for CCP to give an answer
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:37:00 - [3922] Did they just remove the thread(link) in the general forum and move it over to the EVE Information Portal? I still dont see a sticky on the MSN-affair! Only two stickies I see are Concerning the allegations of event rigging and Update on investigation into allegations of misconduct(sharkbait). Two topics they can easily lie their way out of.. Would someone from CCP please atleast aknowledge the fact that they have MSN contact with BoB and the fact that said contact "can" be used for cheating. They dont have to admit to cheating, although admitting to having direct contact via MSN is pretty much the same thing. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Darkstar BP Caldari eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:38:00 - [3923] This is an utterly fascinating slow motion of a trainwreck as it happens. There is beauty in decay, if you are willing to see it. I see the drama, the anger that is permeating the community at the moment and the rot, the fundamental distrust in CCP, starts to spread out. Did anyone notice that the anger has even begun to seep into CCPÆs responses? Just look at KieronÆs responses in the other thread made on the 27th. Brilliant, that emotion will come back to haunt you. Hide behind rules, delete, lock and ban as much as you canà..every step you hurt yourself. Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. Signature removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Frannkie	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:46:00 - [3924] Do not discuss moderation on the forums please, email us instead ([email protected]). Thanks, Hango
Locar Quilus	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:59:00 - [3925] Do not discuss moderation on the forums please, email us instead ([email protected]). Thanks, Hango Signature image removed. If you wish to inquire, please email [email protected] with a link to your signature. Thanks, Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Komaito Re-Awakened Technologies Inc	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:00:00 - [3926] Since the sigs have been snipped, I'm removing the link here as well. -Hango ------------------------------------ radiation... too much radiation...
Luna Liandri PPN United Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:05:00 - [3927] Originally by: Darkstar BP ... You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. ... You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. ... post wins, nothing else to add.
Local Her0 Minmatar La Mancha Corp	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:10:00 - [3928] fallowing the whole story for years now, with all its 'signs' and 'revelations' its clear now that this game is inacceptable for a 'normal' paying player. I don't happen to know any ccp-stuff members, others claim they do know them and their moms and their dogs. The key to a good game is fairness. And this is why it DOES matter that some players communicate with devs and gms on a frienship basis others not. this is unaccaptable. The key to fairness is transparency. transparency /= ccp good bye 'band of developers' And now i need a new game (wow sucks). any preferences?
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:26:00 - [3929] Hmmm groundless?! In means they go much deeper than we thought they would?
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:27:00 - [3930] Originally by: Darkstar BP This is an utterly fascinating slow motion of a trainwreck as it happens. There is beauty in decay, if you are willing to see it. I see the drama, the anger that is permeating the community at the moment and the rot, the fundamental distrust in CCP, starts to spread out. Did anyone notice that the anger has even begun to seep into CCPÆs responses? Just look at KieronÆs responses in the other thread made on the 27th. Brilliant, that emotion will come back to haunt you. Hide behind rules, delete, lock and ban as much as you canà..every step you hurt yourself. Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. signed - next minnie Outpost bpc me:5 available in 25 days -
Duff Ray	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:35:00 - [3931] Edited by: Duff Ray on 28/05/2007 12:41:21 It doesn't matter if BOB or GOONs or anyone else has cheated, what matters is that the Devs and GMs may side with an individual, corporation or alliance and then give that side an unfair advantage when Billions of isk or territory is at stake. I truely believe that the majority of BOBs, GOONs and etc want to have fun in fair fights. I have witnesed GM favoritism myself back in the ASCN war. ASCN had one POS left in the TCAG system (if I remember the correct system) after their initial push into BOB space, the POS was in reinforced but the timer was nowhere near up. A GM shows up in local, within minutes BOB then manages to bring in dreads and take down the shields and the POS even though the timer was not up. We were later told that the GM had somehow determined that the POS was bugged and made it destroyable before its timer was up, during BOBs peak time. The GM informed BOB of his actions, but failed to inform ASCN. When you see things like that it makes you wonder what else are these GMs, and Devs capable of doing? Perhaps it was a CCP employee that turned off the ASCN POSes (now that we know they can join a corporation and give themselves director rights), maybe a GM is joining corporations to find out where shipyards are at and what they are building, maybe that is why the D2, RKK or the LV ship yards were attacked in the first place. Was he only caught because of carelessness or because of a new patch? It doesn't really matter why he joined the corporation, even if it was for a legitiment use, it was perceived as wrongdoing, and I'm sure that any corporation would have thought the same thing, if it happened to them in the same circumstances. When there is so much at stake in game, the players need to know that the game can't be rigged. The ball is now in CCPs hands, will they reinsure the playerbase and take away all GM and DEV in game God powers and make it obvious whenever a GM or Dev is ingame, perhaps in their own (GM DEV) NPC corp? If they do then when future allegations and truths are uncovered (and they will be) CCP can at least say "that was the old system, that is not possible any longer"
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:39:00 - [3932] Originally by: Effei Gloom Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra “any publicity is good publicity” is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you won’t be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didn’t set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didn’t want your developers and GM’s to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and can’t even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPO’s, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming “Being sworn to secrecy by CCP”, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. I’ll paraphrase what some of you said: “CCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?” Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesn’t help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. signed seconded - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait: Dude. True amarr tank shields!
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:43:00 - [3933] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Interesting what is known to be true at this point. We know for a fact that Darkstar1 lied. We know for a fact that a pro-goon ISD was bumping bob dreads out of alignment. We know that bob rushed a petition to have CCP "look" at the issue. You need to buy a +5 logic implant, mate. We know for a fact that player can petition something corp related, have GM come, and corp (including CEO) never knowing what it was about. I have no idea how you got the "pro-goon ISD" part, but I guess implant will sort it out. BoB didn't "rush" the petition. BoB (allegedly - and that's the issue here) used out-of-game communication directly to GMs/devs. And neither BoB nor us know the ISD rules, and only rules that are available to public (on these forums) don't mention ANYTHING related to player giving orders to ISD, or ISD having to comply. You BoB guys are really amazing... not sure if you or Goons are more annoying.
VInanath Diesel	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:47:00 - [3934] Well I find the the whole situation really disapointing. I've been playing EVE for almost a year now and have no previous mmo experience. I quickly fell in love w/ the graphics and game mechanics. I thought this a game I certainly woudn't mind paying a monthly fee to play. Then I discovered BoB and the allegations leveled against them and CCP. I really wanted to dismiss them as simply pure envy and haters venting, unfortunaly we in the legal community believe firmly in compounding evidence and facts... and these are stacked agaisnt BoB and CCP.
Comrade Fox Gallente The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:53:00 - [3935] Ok, one last word from ME and i'm back into the game never again to read ANY complaint thread EVER again. BUT... CCP IS PLAYING THE GAME DIRECTLY AGAINST YOU! CCP IS PULLING THE STRINGS! THIS IS PART OF THE GAME! THE TIDE OF THIS IN GAME WILL CHANGE BACK AND FOURTH. CCP ISN'T COMPLETELY STUPID. YOU ARE PART OF THE HUGEST STORY ANYBODY'S EVER TRIED TO TELL. WEATHER OR NOT YOU COMPLY MATTERS NOT! CCP WOULD NEVER LET BOB HAVE ALL OF 0.0 SPACE. THIS IS ALL PART OF THE GREATER STORY AND EVRYTHING SEEMS TO BE PLAYING DIRECTLY INTO THE HANDS OF A FEW. THIS IS COMPLETELY NOPRMAL IN EVRY MMORPG I'VE EVER PLAYED, JUST NOT AS OFTEN LEAKED (2-3 TIMES NOW). DO NOT COUNT ON ANYTHING BEING EASY. I HAVN'T BENN BRAINWASHED. AND YES, I'M YEALLING BECAUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND. IF YOU DON'T GET IT BY NOW, YOU'RE HOPLESS. THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDIN', FO **ZLE! STAY THE COURSE, MUTHA**A! I KNOW THAT GOD LOVES ME AND HE'S MUCH MUCH BETTER THAN A DEV. COMRADE FOX שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהינו י-ה-ו-ה אחד
Croesus Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:57:00 - [3936]
Blitzkrieg Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:59:00 - [3937] So this has turn into a BoB vs Goon thread? How am i not surprised... I see Bob posters are trying to deliberatly derail this thread. Well you got it wrong, we aren't after your little group of elitist players, but after the lack of professionalism and clear borders btw (some)Devs and (some) player alliances. I love this game, I see only a simple solution to this mess: Devs shouldn't be allowed to play the game on regular charcters (neither devs be on the MSN friends list of some veterant players). They have many others tools at their disposition, it isn't worth the risk of losing your reputation and thousands and subscribers.
VInanath Diesel	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:03:00 - [3938] Originally by: Blitzkrieg So this has turn into a BoB vs Goon thread? How am i not surprised... I see Bob posters are trying to deliberatly derail this thread. Well you got it wrong, we aren't after your little group of elitist players, but after the lack of professionalism and clear borders btw (some)Devs and (some) player alliances. I love this game, I see only a simple solution to this mess: Devs shouldn't be allowed to play the game on regular charcters (neither devs be on the MSN friends list of some veterant players). They have many others tools at their disposition, it isn't worth the risk of losing your reputation and thousands and subscribers. Amen, Nuff said.
TechnoMag Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:06:00 - [3939] Look i joined BoB 2 months ago and i'm tired to hear every day u cheat u r dev and ** like that. I dont *** care if it is any dev/gm/ ccp CEO in my corp or in my alliance. Im just enjoy the game, having the best mates from my eve history. I'm enjoy'ing because almost everyone know what to do without making silly questions and everyone doing what FC say's. But let's get to the point: if anyone have any proove like any BoB member is cheating come with them on the table. If anyone suspect X'bob player is cheating made petition, put the finger ONLY on his face on the forum, NOT TO AN ENTIRE ALLIANCE? Capisci? Put NAMES not a GROUP? Its clear for your limited mind??? Because when u say BoB is cheating, i'm feeling hurt and maybe i will start to open petition after petition. Personally i was petitioned by someone because my ship had an offensive name and i changed the name. Lots of people made petition about this ISD member ban and lots of you write here about and say u r canceling account (just saying not doing so). Cheap propaganda. I received myself on yahoo links to goon petition. I will not say name's because its againts EULA to make propaganda for mass-petition (and i dont want my friends to be banned) but lets face it GOONS JUST DO THAT! U come here with prove's like what SirMolle says in local (maybe it was simply smack) or what Dianabolic write's here: forumflame maybe? These are your prove's? Be serious and wake up from this farse. Get on the facts... prolly that BoB member with dread bumped was so ** off and he made petition. And the GM responded to that petition... from what i know GM >> ISD reporters. In BoB we cant afford to made any mistake .. i saw many times people get poded (or booted from TS/gang etc) by the own gang because they was in other place than the one supposed to be or they dont followed orders. If we threat our own mates like that why do dont threat a third party even if is an ISD in same way if he interfered with our gang??? EULA 7. CONDUCT A. 1. You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System.
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:12:00 - [3940] Originally by: Comrade Fox Ok, one last word from ME and i'm back into the game never again to read ANY complaint thread EVER again. lies.. --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Comrade Fox Gallente The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:19:00 - [3941] Originally by: MissileRus Originally by: Comrade Fox Ok, one last word from ME and i'm back into the game never again to read ANY complaint thread EVER again. lies.. OK, maybe THAT one was a lie. OOPS! My flatmate already slapped me on the wrist. what are they gonna do? CLOSE THIS THREAD? nah, i'll just sound like a conspiracy theorist in the end, but at least i'm right. שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהינו י-ה-ו-ה אחד
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:29:00 - [3942] Edited by: Effei Gloom on 28/05/2007 13:28:48 Originally by: TechnoMag Look i joined BoB 2 months ago and i'm tired to hear every day u cheat u r dev and ** like that. I dont *** care if it is any dev/gm/ ccp CEO in my corp or in my alliance. Why dont i wonder about that "you dont care about". Originally by:** TechnoMag In BoB we cant afford to made any mistake .. i saw many times people get poded (or booted from TS/gang etc) by the own gang because they was in other place than the one supposed to be or they dont followed orders. If we threat our own mates like that why do dont threat a third party even if is an ISD in same way if he interfered with our gang??? sorry but, this sounds ill to me? its a game you know? - next minnie Outpost bpc me:5 available in 25 days -
Heintron Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:33:00 - [3943] So has there been any official response to why BoB has the devs msn and can get ISD reporters fired after abusing him in local etc? Just asking cuz this thread is way to large for me atm
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:43:00 - [3944] Edited by: Thargat on 28/05/2007 13:53:03 I've seen alot of lies (mostly from goons wich I respected til today) and quick judgementcalls. But nothing that even resembles any kind of real proof in this discussion so far. Proof or STFU. Anf btw, I've been a coalition supporter, but now i'll hunt down every GS char I meet cus their whole alliance (by goonswarm kind of LOGIC) is full of lying WoW devs who only want to bring down eve. If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.
tres testor	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:46:00 - [3945] Originally by: Heintron So has there been any official response to why BoB has the devs msn and can get ISD reporters fired after abusing him in local etc? Just asking cuz this thread is way to large for me atm Folks this is no longer a thread...it has become a full blown quilt of outrage.
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:47:00 - [3946] Originally by: Heintron So has there been any official response to why BoB has the devs msn and can get ISD reporters fired after abusing him in local etc? Just asking cuz this thread is way to large for me atm dont think so.. thats the only thing im worrying about, dont realy care about all the other stuff.. sharkbait can jump around eve all he wants imo he has the right too, aslong as he can be trusted to not do anything for "friends" witch brings it back to the MSN contact list stuff... so yea hmm.. wierd.. --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
NG4ge Gallente Knights of The Round	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:54:00 - [3947] After reading almost all this thread, i have only one question, can i have tuxford's MSN plz?
Pherusa Plumosa Minmatar Freedom for All The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:57:00 - [3948] Originally by: TechnoMag But let's get to the point: if anyone have any proove like any BoB member is cheating come with them on the table. If anyone suspect X'bob player is cheating made petition, put the finger ONLY on his face on the forum, NOT TO AN ENTIRE ALLIANCE? Capisci? Put NAMES not a GROUP? Its clear for your limited mind??? My limited mind links you the devblog of t20/eve-dev/eve-player/reikoku-member/bob-member, who admits that he spawned T2-BPOs for his alliance. If players are accusing you as cheater, the reason is, that your corperation has already gained unfair advantages by CCP staff. That is officially proven and if you feel uncomfortable to be accused as "cheater", don't play alongside Bob. Capisce? CCP staff playing their own game and influencing Eve politics that hard can only lead from one catastrophe to another, as stated in manymanymanymanymany posts before.
Comrade Fox Gallente The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:09:00 - [3949] Edited by: Comrade Fox on 28/05/2007 14:11:49 Originally by: MissileRus Originally by: Heintron So has there been any official response to why BoB has the devs msn and can get ISD reporters fired after abusing him in local etc? Just asking cuz this thread is way to large for me atm dont think so.. thats the only thing im worrying about, dont realy care about all the other stuff.. sharkbait can jump around eve all he wants imo he has the right too, aslong as he can be trusted to not do anything for "friends" witch brings it back to the MSN contact list stuff... so yea hmm.. wierd.. check the news. that IS the responce. then go back to page 152 and check my post. it's esy to find. it's all capps and if you read it, close your eyes and breathe deeply, you will see the light. keep up the good fight. kill BoB. kill GS, kill ER. Run high sec. Own 0.0, Who cares. Just play the fkin' game! This st will play itself out...Or it won't. If i can get a score of 156 kills against a team of CounterStrike cheaters throwing evrything they have at me without dieing and without cheating once before being kickbanned for "having better cheats than us and not sharing," I can do anything I set my mind to. Sometimes it's nice to have a cheater by your side when you know there aren't going to be repercussions, unfortunately even in Counterstrike, the cheaters change sides evry once and a while to balance out the teams. BTW: Nothing i say ever has anything to do with Sideburns, HI or your mother. Let them be, I say. שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהינו י-ה-ו-ה אחד
Sasakisan	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:09:00 - [3950] There have been a few posts where players state that their gameplay has become less enjoyable because of facts and allegations about the organization to which they belong. These posts assert, and I paraphrase, that game accomplishments and victories are Pyrrhic if unaccompanied by community respect. Perhaps organizations in game should be permitted to publically choose to have as their members only players with no affiliation to the game company and have this choice publically designated. This would not solve all problems of this thread but would allow game entities to demonstrate their desire to win this game without game company employee membership in their organizations. Accomplishments earned while a constituent of an organization comprised only of players unaffiliated with the game company should be more enjoyable and likely to meet with the respect of the community than accomplishments attained while a member of an entity not so designated.
Igualmentedos	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:18:00 - [3951] Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina Originally by: Effei Gloom Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. signed seconded signed.clean up your act CCP.
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:19:00 - [3952] Originally by: Sasakisan There have been a few posts where players state that their gameplay has become less enjoyable because of facts and allegations about the organization to which they belong. These posts assert, and I paraphrase, that game accomplishments and victories are Pyrrhic if unaccompanied by community respect. Perhaps organizations in game should be permitted to publically choose to have as their members only players with no affiliation to the game company and have this choice publically designated. This would not solve all problems of this thread but would allow game entities to demonstrate their desire to win this game without game company employee membership in their organizations. Accomplishments earned while a constituent of an organization comprised only of players unaffiliated with the game company should be more enjoyable and likely to meet with the respect of the community than accomplishments attained while a member of an entity not so designated. Wow, you have my respect, this is brilliant! A check box when you create your corp / alliance that obstructs dev's/gm/isd from joining, this in turn would not disclose their playing characters, sheer brilliance. - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait: Dude. True amarr tank shields!
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:32:00 - [3953] Originally by: Elspeth Vigneron Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Elspeth Vigneron I don't buy the "privacy" excuse. Noone should have an expectation of in-game privacy. It sounds like you're trying to sweep this under the rug. I don't trust you. I have no reason to trust you. Every bit of law enforcement and forensic auditor training is saying: dig harder, there's something rotten here. Your training failed. Whatever organisation you may belong to may now hang its head in shame, not because their training failed but because they hired you. Ha, ha, ha.... That's one of the stupidist things I've read in the forum. Refer to alleged "privacy" policy. Present easily available EULA. Point out, TWICE, IN BOLD, there is no expectation of privacy. Get flamed by an idiot too whatever to read the post and too busy protecting BoB or Drama Queening against the Goons. Here's a clue: I don't care about either side, I care that I'm not playing a rigged game. CCP is lying about their ability to present exculpatory evidence. Clearly they can under the provisions of the EULA. Clearly they're not providing the evidence and are, once again, trying to sweep it under the rug. Trust is gone.
Malena VXXI Amarr The Templiers	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:40:00 - [3954] First CCP need to face it. Dev team and owners of CCP shall not be present at the server "playing the game". To prevent this to go further ! Miner \| Trader
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:47:00 - [3955] Edited by: MissileRus on 28/05/2007 14:51:47 dont think so.. thats the only thing im worrying about, dont realy care about all the other stuff.. etc.. check the news. that IS the responce. etc.. well thats concerning the "RP"/"Arc" stuff.. im talking contact networks.. made so many posts now about "my" views about it so i wont make more.. i dont think anyone realy cares what "i" think though as im not part of any big alliance and thus not "control" the future of the game... ill leave it to the "big guys" to battle but they seem more concerned about forum pvp with their enemies then the "contacts and friends" and/or how they might get information leading to faul play witch could apply to several sides and alliances.. im "neutral" but the "contact lists" needs to be clarified/investigated or stopped, faul play or not simply the "risk" of it makes it suspicious and a reputation shredder.. trust is the issue Originally by: Malena VXXI First CCP need to face it. Dev team and owners of CCP shall not be present at the server "playing the game". they should absolutely be allowed to! they need rules and boundries though like other "games" concerning this issue, i do not see those.. there should indeed be "walls" between private char and "work" chars/information.. there might be some walls, but there needs to be more walls, as to not allow "contacts" or letting players know about your "employment" and other info etc.. bah b-ched to death now, denying devs and staff to play their game is laughable though --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Tanti Aglaia	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:57:00 - [3956] Originally by: Malena VXXI Dev team and owners of CCP shall not be present at the server "playing the game". Yeah pls debug me a game where u to test with god'mode on. U r not talking serious right? Dev's need to play this game to see what its wrong or what its not good. Of course with "/dev commands off" just like a regular player.
Aranorn Lucky Hydra Corp SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:57:00 - [3957] I just find it amusing that we're asking an organization that we're accusing of being biased to conduct a "unbiased" investigation. lol. --
Tanti Aglaia	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:57:00 - [3958] Originally by: Malena VXXI Dev team and owners of CCP shall not be present at the server "playing the game". Yeah pls debug me a game where u to test with god'mode on. U r not talking serious right? Dev's need to play this game to see what its wrong or what its not good. Of course with "/dev commands off" just like a regular player.
Aranorn Lucky Hydra Corp SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:57:00 - [3959] I just find it amusing that we're asking an organization that we're accusing of being biased to conduct a "unbiased" investigation. lol. --
Obsidian Reborn	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:01:00 - [3960] Originally by: Arrow Jumpdrive I read up to page 107. No more BoB vs. Goonies. No more finger pointing. No more attempted thread derailments. Alot of CCP's paying customers have some burning questions in their minds, here are some of mine: 1] Why [ now being publica ] do CCP employees/DEVS mingle with the player base and, does this not create a conflict of interest when personal relationships are forged with the player base ?. 2] Who is going to come to the player base and give us an explaination for whats been going on... specifically, why does the player base have apparent personal relationships with the developer team ? 3] How and why do specific groups in EvE have access to information not known to the general player base ?, Is that not akin to insider trading ?. 4] Does CCP not have a CoC that has to be followed when interacting with the player base ?, so far, there seems to be none. 5] When is CCP going to stop the constant smoke and mirrors and accept responsibility for their actions [ I kept quiet when the T20 **** hit the fan, but ive had it, I've been watching this garbage go on for over a year ]. The time for damage control is now CCP, you are going to lose player base at an alarming rate, and have difficulty attracting newer players. I also read something about the "sandbox mentality", and the outright brushing issues under the carpet. Children do that, not multi-million dollar companies. CCP, a huge percentage of your player base are adults. These allegations are serious, and you got your "freebee" with T20. We want adult answers, from an adult spokesperson, who will gives us an adult explaination, with an adult recourse. You image has been damaged in the public eye, including those of your "peers". That was a very good series of points! Ok lets see if CCP's Internal Affairs can do the job they have been given. Arkanon as far as I am concerned this is your last and only chance to show that CCP can be upfront and honest in its dealings with the players. I know a great number of players who have cancelled their auto renewal of their accounts and are waiting to see how this is resolved before continuing. I intend to hold my decision as well but I feel that if BOB had logs that could have cleared them they would have been posted by now. Now it has been too long and anything presented will be considered to have been fabricated by most players. Arkanon good luck with this one. This may be the time you have to tell the boss some cold hard facts to get him to realize that if the GMs and DEVs continue to play then the players will never believe that there is no link between them and various groups. Sorry guys I have met some of you at various conventions and respect all the work you have done on this game. (and no I never asked for anyones MSN) But one cheater (T20) has painted you all with the same broad brush and the only way is to remove your ingame influence once and for all and to institute a very strict and severe code of conduct that is published so everyone knows that it will never happen again or jobs will be lost. Arkannon good luck bud, trust me you need it this time. Obsidian
Obsidian Reborn	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:01:00 - [3961] Originally by: Arrow Jumpdrive I read up to page 107. No more BoB vs. Goonies. No more finger pointing. No more attempted thread derailments. Alot of CCP's paying customers have some burning questions in their minds, here are some of mine: 1] Why [ now being publica ] do CCP employees/DEVS mingle with the player base and, does this not create a conflict of interest when personal relationships are forged with the player base ?. 2] Who is going to come to the player base and give us an explaination for whats been going on... specifically, why does the player base have apparent personal relationships with the developer team ? 3] How and why do specific groups in EvE have access to information not known to the general player base ?, Is that not akin to insider trading ?. 4] Does CCP not have a CoC that has to be followed when interacting with the player base ?, so far, there seems to be none. 5] When is CCP going to stop the constant smoke and mirrors and accept responsibility for their actions [ I kept quiet when the T20 **** hit the fan, but ive had it, I've been watching this garbage go on for over a year ]. The time for damage control is now CCP, you are going to lose player base at an alarming rate, and have difficulty attracting newer players. I also read something about the "sandbox mentality", and the outright brushing issues under the carpet. Children do that, not multi-million dollar companies. CCP, a huge percentage of your player base are adults. These allegations are serious, and you got your "freebee" with T20. We want adult answers, from an adult spokesperson, who will gives us an adult explaination, with an adult recourse. You image has been damaged in the public eye, including those of your "peers". That was a very good series of points! Ok lets see if CCP's Internal Affairs can do the job they have been given. Arkanon as far as I am concerned this is your last and only chance to show that CCP can be upfront and honest in its dealings with the players. I know a great number of players who have cancelled their auto renewal of their accounts and are waiting to see how this is resolved before continuing. I intend to hold my decision as well but I feel that if BOB had logs that could have cleared them they would have been posted by now. Now it has been too long and anything presented will be considered to have been fabricated by most players. Arkanon good luck with this one. This may be the time you have to tell the boss some cold hard facts to get him to realize that if the GMs and DEVs continue to play then the players will never believe that there is no link between them and various groups. Sorry guys I have met some of you at various conventions and respect all the work you have done on this game. (and no I never asked for anyones MSN) But one cheater (T20) has painted you all with the same broad brush and the only way is to remove your ingame influence once and for all and to institute a very strict and severe code of conduct that is published so everyone knows that it will never happen again or jobs will be lost. Arkannon good luck bud, trust me you need it this time. Obsidian
Malena VXXI Amarr The Templiers	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:04:00 - [3962] Originally by: Neo Rainhart Edited by: Neo Rainhart on 26/05/2007 11:33:13 I must write something regarding this issue although i promised myself to give a flying something about it. This wont change my opinion of eve online being the best game ever..as long as the poor ratters and carebears are not receiving help from dev's, i couldnt care less about issues like this. Now, people, don't stick your heads WHERE ITS NOT NEEDED Neo plz we aint talking about EvE and how it's made here ^^. We are talking about "dev/CCP" cheating and destroying our gaming experiance I wish the best of luck for you guys in CCP..my trust for you will never fade! Neo plz we aint talking about EvE and how it's made here ^^. We are talking about "dev/CCP" cheating and destroying our gaming experiance Miner \| Trader
Malena VXXI Amarr The Templiers	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:04:00 - [3963] Originally by: Neo Rainhart Edited by: Neo Rainhart on 26/05/2007 11:33:13 I must write something regarding this issue although i promised myself to give a flying something about it. This wont change my opinion of eve online being the best game ever..as long as the poor ratters and carebears are not receiving help from dev's, i couldnt care less about issues like this. Now, people, don't stick your heads WHERE ITS NOT NEEDED Neo plz we aint talking about EvE and how it's made here ^^. We are talking about "dev/CCP" cheating and destroying our gaming experiance I wish the best of luck for you guys in CCP..my trust for you will never fade! Neo plz we aint talking about EvE and how it's made here ^^. We are talking about "dev/CCP" cheating and destroying our gaming experiance Miner \| Trader
Aurora Spacefarer	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:05:00 - [3964] I am just hearing about this now I have to say any players having a Dev's MSN is wrong as well as any Dev not keeping he's identety a secret is wrong the devs should NOT fratanize with the players and they should keep their Dev accounts from their player accounts with that said it seams that there are some holes in this whole story the clip from the open letter here Admiral_Chamrajnagar: ok anyone know an ISD named rekan? Macayle: why? [IC]Raekhan: I'm right here. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you need to leave that system Admiral_Chamrajnagar: you are making an ass of yourself Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and of ccp [IC]Raekhan: ? Admiral_Chamrajnagar: enticing the player base is not actions that you want to do [IC]Raekhan: What..are...you.... [IC]Raekhan: ? Cortes feels a facepalm coming on [EA]Aristaqis: enticing? Was he putting on a strip show or something? [IC]Tsuki facepalms Admiral_Chamrajnagar: the local player base asked him to politly stop pushing dreads Admiral_Chamrajnagar: that were undergoing a siege operation [IC]Raekhan: I was not pushing a dread. [IC]Raekhan: I'm 70KM away. Admiral_Chamrajnagar: it does not matter.. posting in local "no" Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and that "your not going away" Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and that all you hear is "static" Admiral_Chamrajnagar: and to complain to eris discordia Admiral_Chamrajnagar: is not helpfull at all Cortes: which wouldn't do much good given I'm the IC VA it seams there is ALOT more to what was said in local than what the ISD person want to admit its entirely possible that he engaged in smack talk in local thats kinda sounds what that admiral person is saying it was not just the ISD person saying no in local BoB is the biggest and meanest aliance out there they will have enemy's that will do whatever they can to discredit them so I will for now atleast take this whole issue with a grain of salt Aurora
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:05:00 - [3965] Originally by: Obsidian Reborn Arkannon good luck bud, trust me you need it this time. ill quote that before leaving this mess.. --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:18:00 - [3966] The bickering in this thread has far passed the stage where it addresses any of the issues at the heart of this matter. I suggest that it is time to reign in the rhetoric and distill the substance of this 4000+ post thread down to the basic concerns. The holiday weekend is about to end and you people need to realize that CCP will likely be preparing their response, probably tomorrow. Dose anyone want that response to be a reaction to a flood of rhetoric or would it be better if players concerns at the end stage of this thread, offered reasoned and calm concerns and ideas? The link to this thread is no longer in ôgeneralö. That should indicate that a response is imminent. It would be foolish to think that this thread-naught will be allowed to continue. CCP will have to begin to take control of this forum and assert more moderation after a largely un-moderated weekend of hysteria. Determine root cause of the problems. Leave out emotions and politics. Recommend realistic solutions and ideas. Be part of the solution process, because the game that we all play and love is the victim here. I support CCP because at the end of the day, Eve is a brilliant, unique, masterpiece of the high science fiction game genre. I want it to be well and I want it to be respected because I want to play it for some time. I do not want to walk away because it is too unpalatable to be here. Be reasonable people; work with CCP, not against them. Determine the core problem and offer workable solutions. We want CCP to act, not react.
Gerrard Knight	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:21:00 - [3967] Originally by: Igualmentedos Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina Originally by: Effei Gloom Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. signed seconded signed.clean up your act CCP. signed
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:23:00 - [3968] The MSN thing is really strange. Yet again, another thing that is absolutely not allowed at any other company that produces MMOs. You have a work base IM program open, and only people in the building are allowed to have your contact information. Personal MSN, Yahoo, AIM, whatever is expressly forbiden. If someone so much as opens one of these, they get in trouble, and if a convo about some IN-GAME issue comes in from your "friends" you'd most likely get your ass fired, rather instantly. Oh, well, I guess they do things very different in Iceland. Different isn't always bad, but something about this whole alligation smells really bad. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:28:00 - [3969] Originally by: Gerrard Knight Originally by: Igualmentedos Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina Originally by: Effei Gloom Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. signed seconded signed.clean up your act CCP. signed Sad to say, but: /signed Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Wesley Baird Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:38:00 - [3970] Originally by: Gerrard Knight Originally by: Igualmentedos Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina Originally by: Effei Gloom Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. signed seconded signed.clean up your act CCP. signed signed
Lylesburg	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:40:00 - [3971] this is the end for my stay in the EVE cluster. 3 acounts signing off. o/
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:44:00 - [3972] Originally by: Pherusa Plumosa Originally by: TechnoMag But let's get to the point: if anyone have any proove like any BoB member is cheating come with them on the table. If anyone suspect X'bob player is cheating made petition, put the finger ONLY on his face on the forum, NOT TO AN ENTIRE ALLIANCE? Capisci? Put NAMES not a GROUP? Its clear for your limited mind??? My limited mind links you the devblog of t20/eve-dev/eve-player/reikoku-member/bob-member, who admits that he spawned T2-BPOs for his alliance. If players are accusing you as cheater, the reason is, that your corperation has already gained unfair advantages by CCP staff. That is officially proven and if you feel uncomfortable to be accused as "cheater", don't play alongside Bob. Capisce? CCP staff playing their own game and influencing Eve politics that hard can only lead from one catastrophe to another, as stated in manymanymanymanymany posts before. People will read something anyway they want... Nowhere does he say he spawned them, in fact since he said they were being reintroduced into the raffle, they weren't spawned bpo's they were raffled bpos that he somehow managed to get by "fixing" the raffle, not spawning them. __________________________________________
MrJordanIOI Minmatar The Lantern Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:45:00 - [3973] Originally by: Wesley Baird Originally by: Gerrard Knight Originally by: Igualmentedos Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina Originally by: Effei Gloom Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. signed seconded signed.clean up your act CCP. signed signed This hits the proverbial nail on the head just perfectly. IOI
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:47:00 - [3974] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Pherusa Plumosa Originally by: TechnoMag But let's get to the point: if anyone have any proove like any BoB member is cheating come with them on the table. If anyone suspect X'bob player is cheating made petition, put the finger ONLY on his face on the forum, NOT TO AN ENTIRE ALLIANCE? Capisci? Put NAMES not a GROUP? Its clear for your limited mind??? My limited mind links you the devblog of t20/eve-dev/eve-player/reikoku-member/bob-member, who admits that he spawned T2-BPOs for his alliance. If players are accusing you as cheater, the reason is, that your corperation has already gained unfair advantages by CCP staff. That is officially proven and if you feel uncomfortable to be accused as "cheater", don't play alongside Bob. Capisce? CCP staff playing their own game and influencing Eve politics that hard can only lead from one catastrophe to another, as stated in manymanymanymanymany posts before. People will read something anyway they want... Nowhere does he say he spawned them, in fact since he said they were being reintroduced into the raffle, they weren't spawned bpo's they were raffled bpos that he somehow managed to get by "fixing" the raffle, not spawning them. So he didn't cheat by spawning. He cheated by 'fixing' the T2 lottery. Still sounds like cheating to me. there's no such thing as bad press
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:49:00 - [3975] Originally by: MrJordanIOI Edited by: MrJordanIOI on 28/05/2007 15:45:32 Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. This hits the proverbial nail on the head just perfectly. IOI P.S.: Edited to remove quotes and get rid of the ugly indenting Yeah, I'll sign this one too /signed there's no such thing as bad press
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:58:00 - [3976] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 28/05/2007 15:57:53 Originally by: Darkstar BP This is an utterly fascinating slow motion of a trainwreck as it happens. There is beauty in decay, if you are willing to see it. I see the drama, the anger that is permeating the community at the moment and the rot, the fundamental distrust in CCP, starts to spread out. Did anyone notice that the anger has even begun to seep into CCP’s responses? Just look at Kieron’s responses in the other thread made on the 27th. Brilliant, that emotion will come back to haunt you. Hide behind rules, delete, lock and ban as much as you can…..every step you hurt yourself. Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra “any publicity is good publicity” is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you won’t be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didn’t set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didn’t want your developers and GM’s to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and can’t even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. You are hillarious, how deluded can one be? Do you honestly not see you turned into a conspiracy theorist? Taking things that happened and pulling them out of context does not make it true. From your writing it's obvious what you are upset about: BoB are better then you, but, them winning was because they cheated so you couldn't help it. That's all what one can conclude after reading your little piece of text. Oh, and lol@10 alts /signing. Made my day.
Bobafeit The SMITE Brotherhood Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:17:00 - [3977] Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed
Sirion Fujiwara	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:17:00 - [3978] Originally by: Flaming Lemming Originally by: MrJordanIOI Edited by: MrJordanIOI on 28/05/2007 15:45:32 Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. This hits the proverbial nail on the head just perfectly. IOI P.S.: Edited to remove quotes and get rid of the ugly indenting Yeah, I'll sign this one too /signed Signed. But who cares? - CCP/BoD clearly don't. Why am I paying these guys' mortages again!?
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:18:00 - [3979] Originally by: Thargat Edited by: Thargat on 28/05/2007 13:53:03 I've seen alot of lies (mostly from goons wich I respected til today) and quick judgementcalls. But nothing that even resembles any kind of real proof in this discussion so far. Proof or STFU. Anf btw, I've been a coalition supporter, but now i'll hunt down every GS char I meet cus their whole alliance (by goonswarm kind of LOGIC) is full of lying WoW devs who only want to bring down eve. How is using the bob response attacking the messenger "goonswarm logic?" If you're using the insults bob used, it's more of bob logic, isn't it?
XFreedomX	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:19:00 - [3980] Originally by: Darkstar BP You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed
Luna Liandri PPN United Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:24:00 - [3981] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley From your writing it's obvious what you are upset about: BoB are better then you, but, them winning was because they cheated so you couldn't help it. That's all what one^H^H^H/me little BoB alt can/will conclude/derail after reading your little piece of text. yup. Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Oh, and lol@10 alts /signing. Made my day. yup, post with your main !
Nagatok AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:25:00 - [3982] Originally by: XFreedomX Originally by: Darkstar BP You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed also /signed A good EVE player knows his limits but an True EVE player finds his way around them
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:43:00 - [3983] Originally by: Comrade Fox Edited by: Comrade Fox on 28/05/2007 13:23:39 Originally by: MissileRus Originally by: Comrade Fox Ok, one last word from ME and i'm back into the game never again to read ANY complaint thread EVER again. lies.. OK, maybe THAT one was a lie. OOPS! My flatmate already slapped me on the wrist. what are they gonna do? CLOSE THIS THREAD? nah, i'll just sound like a conspiracy theorist in the end, but I prefer the term PROPHET. You need to get psychiatric help
Spuki Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:44:00 - [3984] Originally by: Darkstar BP This is an utterly fascinating slow motion of a trainwreck as it happens. There is beauty in decay, if you are willing to see it. I see the drama, the anger that is permeating the community at the moment and the rot, the fundamental distrust in CCP, starts to spread out. Did anyone notice that the anger has even begun to seep into CCPÆs responses? Just look at KieronÆs responses in the other thread made on the 27th. Brilliant, that emotion will come back to haunt you. Hide behind rules, delete, lock and ban as much as you canà..every step you hurt yourself. Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:45:00 - [3985] Originally by: TechnoMag U come here with prove's like what SirMolle says in local (maybe it was simply smack) or what Dianabolic write's here: forumflame maybe? These are your prove's? Be serious and wake up from this farse. You really think Dianabolic would forum troll in THIS thread of all the places? On something that, like he said, he's already admitted to in the past? Ok. Sorry you're mad that you joined an alliance full of **socking elitists that don't get the respect you feel you deserve as true **sock kings. Good luck with your in-game war!
Ingress AFK	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:51:00 - [3986] Originally by: Darkstar BP Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. This sums up the situation perfectly. /signed
CaptainGordon Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 16:54:00 - [3987] Originally by: Arkanon investigation I would like to see the contents of that mysteriously filed pos petition, because quite frankly, at the moment the word of CCP/GM's just wont do it for me.
Duff Ray	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:05:00 - [3988] Originally by: Darkstar BP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /signed
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:06:00 - [3989] Originally by: CaptainGordon I would like to see the contents of that mysteriously filed pos petition, because quite frankly, at the moment the word of CCP/GM's just wont do it. If the CCP and the GM staff wont the player trust to be regained, they have to come forward with some stone cold facts instead of "you are going to have to just trust us guys, ok". The stop playing. Nothing somebody "you dont trust" will say will ever be truth to you, so there is no point in you continuing the paranoia. The only thing they would say and you would believe is something you want to here. You wont be able to see the petition, because its a matter of privacy, and then if they do break their own privacy agreement you will *** that they made up that petition, and that you feel abused that they would release private information like that! And yes, I do know thats what you (well maybe not you personally, but your alliance in general) will do. They proved that this weekend by saying "we will never trust bob or ccp" and then trusting bob when they say "omg we us msn to talk to devs" and trusting ccp when they say "t20 cheated". Its a double standard, you will only believe what you want to see and the fact that CCP wasted so much time on little cryababy paranoid skitzos should show you that the company you hate so much goes out of their way to make even the most obnoxious portion of thier community happy, or at least they try their hardest. So quit whining, and give a ***** thank you once in a while for all the havoc you wreak on the people who work for CCP's lives. Working overnight, and throughout the whole holiday weekend because you have a stick up your ass without so much of a thank you. And you wonder why most smaller game companies/creators (like web based mmo's and small games like this) hate dealing with the SA crowd. __________________________________________
Aurora Spacefarer	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:07:00 - [3990] I dont know about the rest of you all but I have yet to see any PROOF that any of this is actually true I see a lot of he said she said but the only thing that seams to be true about all this is that 1 or more BoB leaders got the devs MSN names (wich IS wrong they should never have given those to players) but as for the rest there dont seam to be any proff to it am I missing something ?? Aurora
Amber Road Caldari Caffeine Commodities Company	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:08:00 - [3991] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: CaptainGordon I would like to see the contents of that mysteriously filed pos petition, because quite frankly, at the moment the word of CCP/GM's just wont do it. If the CCP and the GM staff wont the player trust to be regained, they have to come forward with some stone cold facts instead of "you are going to have to just trust us guys, ok". The stop playing. Nothing somebody "you dont trust" will say will ever be truth to you, so there is no point in you continuing the paranoia. The only thing they would say and you would believe is something you want to here. You wont be able to see the petition, because its a matter of privacy, and then if they do break their own privacy agreement you will *** that they made up that petition, and that you feel abused that they would release private information like that! And yes, I do know thats what you (well maybe not you personally, but your alliance in general) will do. They proved that this weekend by saying "we will never trust bob or ccp" and then trusting bob when they say "omg we us msn to talk to devs" and trusting ccp when they say "t20 cheated". Its a double standard, you will only believe what you want to see and the fact that CCP wasted so much time on little cryababy paranoid skitzos should show you that the company you hate so much goes out of their way to make even the most obnoxious portion of thier community happy, or at least they try their hardest. So quit whining, and give a ***** thank you once in a while for all the havoc you wreak on the people who work for CCP's lives. Working overnight, and throughout the whole holiday weekend because you have a stick up your ass without so much of a thank you. And you wonder why most smaller game companies/creators (like web based mmo's and small games like this) hate dealing with the SA crowd. /signed
MrJordanIOI Minmatar The Lantern Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:08:00 - [3992] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley ....... You are hillarious, how deluded can one be? Do you honestly not see you turned into a conspiracy theorist? Taking things that happened and pulling them out of context does not make it true. From your writing it's obvious what you are upset about: BoB are better then you, but, them winning was because they cheated so you couldn't help it. That's all what one can conclude after reading your little piece of text. Oh, and lol@10 alts /signing. Made my day. Hello Alice I am one of those 10 "alts" who signed Darkstar's very clever rehash of this situation and how it may have come to be. When you are done sorting your single (one!) member in your corporation "Christine" and found time to dry your ears please start a conversation in game or mail me so we can get more intimate. I d like to prove I am not an alt. Thank you for your attention, IOI
Stede Bonnet Minmatar Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:09:00 - [3993] Originally by: Amber Road Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: CaptainGordon I would like to see the contents of that mysteriously filed pos petition, because quite frankly, at the moment the word of CCP/GM's just wont do it. If the CCP and the GM staff wont the player trust to be regained, they have to come forward with some stone cold facts instead of "you are going to have to just trust us guys, ok". The stop playing. Nothing somebody "you dont trust" will say will ever be truth to you, so there is no point in you continuing the paranoia. The only thing they would say and you would believe is something you want to here. You wont be able to see the petition, because its a matter of privacy, and then if they do break their own privacy agreement you will *** that they made up that petition, and that you feel abused that they would release private information like that! And yes, I do know thats what you (well maybe not you personally, but your alliance in general) will do. They proved that this weekend by saying "we will never trust bob or ccp" and then trusting bob when they say "omg we us msn to talk to devs" and trusting ccp when they say "t20 cheated". Its a double standard, you will only believe what you want to see and the fact that CCP wasted so much time on little cryababy paranoid skitzos should show you that the company you hate so much goes out of their way to make even the most obnoxious portion of thier community happy, or at least they try their hardest. So quit whining, and give a ***** thank you once in a while for all the havoc you wreak on the people who work for CCP's lives. Working overnight, and throughout the whole holiday weekend because you have a stick up your ass without so much of a thank you. And you wonder why most smaller game companies/creators (like web based mmo's and small games like this) hate dealing with the SA crowd. /signed /signed _______________________________________________ Da time be now, Rise up me enslaved brethren. Rise up and fight, Ye darks time is numbered. SEEEEYYYLLLLAAAAAA!
Dagrin RDM Caldari The Knights of the New Republic Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:12:00 - [3994] Originally by: Duff Ray Originally by: Darkstar BP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /signed and another... /signed
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:13:00 - [3995] Originally by: Popsikle The stop playing. Oh, many people will. Many people are waiting for ISD/MSN thing to come out, then make their decision based on that. No wonder it's taking so long...
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:15:00 - [3996] Btw... Hello CCP. Why is it taking SO LONG to post results about ISD/MSN thing? As per your own FAQ: (linky) "These misconceptions make the volunteers an easy target. We take accusations of abuse of power or other wrongdoing by the volunteers very seriously and investigate each thoroughly." If that investigation was done thoroughly, you already have the detailed report, so just come out with it. Thank you.
Wesley Baird Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:15:00 - [3997] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley You are hillarious, how deluded can one be? Do you honestly not see you turned into a conspiracy theorist? Taking things that happened and pulling them out of context does not make it true. From your writing it's obvious what you are upset about: BoB are better then you, but, them winning was because they cheated so you couldn't help it. That's all what one can conclude after reading your little piece of text. Oh, and lol@10 alts /signing. Made my day. Im no alt...see my corp and alliance ticker... Not everyone is a gutless oneman alt corp...
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:17:00 - [3998] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Popsikle The stop playing. Oh, many people will. Many people are waiting for ISD/MSN thing to come out, then make their decision based on that. No wonder it's taking so long... Thanks to some BoB comments...that's gonna be a HARD one to spin, I can see the reason for the delay. there's no such thing as bad press
Aurora Spacefarer	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:20:00 - [3999] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Btw... Hello CCP. Why is it taking SO LONG to post results about ISD/MSN thing? As per your own FAQ: (linky) "These misconceptions make the volunteers an easy target. We take accusations of abuse of power or other wrongdoing by the volunteers very seriously and investigate each thoroughly." If that investigation was done thoroughly, you already have the detailed report, so just come out with it. Thank you. ERHM HOLIDAY weekeend
CaptainGordon Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:21:00 - [4000] Edited by: CaptainGordon on 28/05/2007 17:21:44 Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: CaptainGordon I would like to see the contents of that mysteriously filed pos petition, because quite frankly, at the moment the word of CCP/GM's just wont do it. If the CCP and the GM staff wont the player trust to be regained, they have to come forward with some stone cold facts instead of "you are going to have to just trust us guys, ok". The stop playing. Nothing somebody "you dont trust" will say will ever be truth to you, so there is no point in you continuing the paranoia. The only thing they would say and you would believe is something you want to here. You wont be able to see the petition, because its a matter of privacy, and then if they do break their own privacy agreement you will *** that they made up that petition, and that you feel abused that they would release private information like that! And yes, I do know thats what you (well maybe not you personally, but your alliance in general) will do. They proved that this weekend by saying "we will never trust bob or ccp" and then trusting bob when they say "omg we us msn to talk to devs" and trusting ccp when they say "t20 cheated". Its a double standard, you will only believe what you want to see and the fact that CCP wasted so much time on little cryababy paranoid skitzos should show you that the company you hate so much goes out of their way to make even the most obnoxious portion of thier community happy, or at least they try their hardest. So quit whining, and give a *** thank you once in a while for all the havoc you wreak on the people who work for CCP's lives. Working overnight, and throughout the whole holiday weekend because you have a stick up your ass without so much of a thank you. And you wonder why most smaller game companies/creators (like web based mmo's and small games like this) hate dealing with the SA crowd. So far I havent seen a single spec of evidence posted by either a CCP representative or a GM. I think the whole thing would go over much better if instead of stonewalling goon represenatives with unnecessary censorship someone would take their time to deal with this situation before it excalated to this point. Also, if a CCP employee or a GM has pm'ed you some facts, please post them here. And please, before you open your mouth next time and start yelling about privacy/corporate policy violations, please consider that logging into someone elses account/corp without at least notifying them of this beforehand IS a violation of privacy AND the CCP corprorate policy. So who is setting the double standart here? Who ya' gonna call?**
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:22:00 - [4001] Edited by: Karlemgne on 28/05/2007 17:23:28 Edited by: Karlemgne on 28/05/2007 17:21:21 Originally by: Aurora Spacefarer Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Btw... Hello CCP. Why is it taking SO LONG to post results about ISD/MSN thing? As per your own FAQ: (linky) "These misconceptions make the volunteers an easy target. We take accusations of abuse of power or other wrongdoing by the volunteers very seriously and investigate each thoroughly." If that investigation was done thoroughly, you already have the detailed report, so just come out with it. Thank you. ERHM HOLIDAY weekeend ERHM... not in Iceland it isn't. Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:31:00 - [4002] Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: MrJordanIOI Hello Alice I am one of those 10 "alts" who signed Darkstar's very clever rehash of this situation and how it may have come to be. When you are done sorting your single (one!) member in your corporation "Christine" and found time to dry your ears please start a conversation in game or mail me so we can get more intimate. I d like to prove I am not an alt. Thank you for your attention, IOI It's hard to distinguish between alts and mains when there is so much wishful thinking going on. It's obvious people are /signing because of their ineptitude to form their own opinion. It will always be easier to just follow someone you can maby remotely relate to and that does not lie -too- much. Sad to see but not much one can do about it. By the way, i don't mind alts with content. I signed it to, and I'm not an alt. Notice the corp and alliance ticker to your left. Thanks, and have a nice day. -Karlemgne LOL, I don't think anyone could possibly be an alt and post as much as you do. Liang Originally by: Dianabolic, of BOB, referring to MSN the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge?
Malashek Vatrii Furious Vendetta FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:32:00 - [4003] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley It's hard to distinguish between alts and mains when there is so much wishful thinking going on. It's obvious people are /signing because of their ineptitude to form their own opinion. It will always be easier to just follow someone you can maby remotely relate to and that does not lie -too- much. Sad to see but not much one can do about it. By the way, i don't mind alts with content. Maybe someone formed a similar opinion and there is no point writing it again with minuscule differences, so /signed is easier. * * * * Iyay antway exysay imetay These views are mine, not my corps nor my alliances.. blahdy blah
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:33:00 - [4004] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: MrJordanIOI Hello Alice I am one of those 10 "alts" who signed Darkstar's very clever rehash of this situation and how it may have come to be. When you are done sorting your single (one!) member in your corporation "Christine" and found time to dry your ears please start a conversation in game or mail me so we can get more intimate. I d like to prove I am not an alt. Thank you for your attention, IOI It's hard to distinguish between alts and mains when there is so much wishful thinking going on. It's obvious people are /signing because of their ineptitude to form their own opinion. It will always be easier to just follow someone you can maby remotely relate to and that does not lie -too- much. Sad to see but not much one can do about it. By the way, i don't mind alts with content. I signed it to, and I'm not an alt. Notice the corp and alliance ticker to your left. Thanks, and have a nice day. -Karlemgne LOL, I don't think anyone could possibly be an alt and post as much as you do. Liang Hehe... it would not be the first time. Karl reflects back on his second month in game, when a corporation his corp had war deced surrended to him because of the "power of his main." He's still trying to figure out who this 'main' was that figured so prominently in a war victory. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:33:00 - [4005] Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: MrJordanIOI Hello Alice I am one of those 10 "alts" who signed Darkstar's very clever rehash of this situation and how it may have come to be. When you are done sorting your single (one!) member in your corporation "Christine" and found time to dry your ears please start a conversation in game or mail me so we can get more intimate. I d like to prove I am not an alt. Thank you for your attention, IOI It's hard to distinguish between alts and mains when there is so much wishful thinking going on. It's obvious people are /signing because of their ineptitude to form their own opinion. It will always be easier to just follow someone you can maby remotely relate to and that does not lie -too- much. Sad to see but not much one can do about it. By the way, i don't mind alts with content. I signed it to, and I'm not an alt. Notice the corp and alliance ticker to your left. Thanks, and have a nice day. -Karlemgne Especially for you i wrote the second reply, you know, the one about your ineptitude to form your own opinion. Try harder.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:35:00 - [4006] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: MrJordanIOI Hello Alice I am one of those 10 "alts" who signed Darkstar's very clever rehash of this situation and how it may have come to be. When you are done sorting your single (one!) member in your corporation "Christine" and found time to dry your ears please start a conversation in game or mail me so we can get more intimate. I d like to prove I am not an alt. Thank you for your attention, IOI It's hard to distinguish between alts and mains when there is so much wishful thinking going on. It's obvious people are /signing because of their ineptitude to form their own opinion. It will always be easier to just follow someone you can maby remotely relate to and that does not lie -too- much. Sad to see but not much one can do about it. By the way, i don't mind alts with content. Just an eff why eye but when you're trying to be condescending and holier-than-thou it really helps if you don't massacre the language with phrases like "their ineptitude to form their own opinion."
MrJordanIOI Minmatar The Lantern Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:35:00 - [4007] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 26/05/2007 04:34:20 Lets make a quick summary of the last 6 months events uncovered and proven in eve and BoB's and CCP's reactions about them: 1) It is uncovered that a director of RKK (a member corp of BoB) was actually a Dev and the other directors as well as the CEO were aware of it. - BoB strongly denied this at the forums and tried to discredit the person who disclosed the information; - Sirmolle reveals real life information about the said person in the forums and make a real life threat against him; - After the community showed outrage T20 ended confessed it was true. - CCP banns the guy who disclosed the information and leaves Sirmolle, who croke the EULA, alone; 2) It comes to light that BoB received illegal T2 bpos - BoB denied and called the people who where outraged by it "Tinfoil Bandwagers" trying to disregard the allegation with a "ad hominem" fallacy; - The community does not buy it and T20 posts an oppen letter confessing the spawn and the previous allegation; - CCP does nothing about the matter - BoB changes the line from "no we never received anything." to "It does not make any difference" Now it is shown that they still have unfair advantages in the form of CCP contacts and information that shouldn't be available to them. A kind of information that could be the motive they blew ASCN and D2 Titans. But that is just speculation on my part. It is undenyable, though, that BoB's relations with CCP employees brought to light are inadequate. There is no such a thing as recurring coincidences. Your name can't appear multiple times by accident as the lottery winner or as a falsary if you are not one. To all those that are not cheater or exploiters and are members or allies of BoB. The fact that you unconditionally defend those that are, to the point of lying, denying the obvious and trying to discredit their accusers, makes you pathetic. Have some dignity and kick them out of your lives. Or admit at least that you like to win so much that cheating and knowinly benefiting from cheater advantages is ok to you. As long as you can beat your chest and say, "Look how ubber I am" To CCP, the way you are dealing with this is sickening. Just do as everybody else in this world who runs a serious company and take your employees from situations where they have conflicts of interest. You want they playing the game, nice, place them in their own corp in Jovian space, or doing missions in Empire. It is impossible to prevent people entwined with factions in a highly competitive game from cheating to their benefit. Especially when the most effective and utterly untraceable cheating in this game is just to reveal ingame information. I trully hope one of 2 things happen. Either you start to act as adults and a serious company, instead of behaving as a bunch of kids playing a game, or you fail as company and bankrupt. This way you will serve at least as an example to future developers of games. Etho: Is there any way you can link to threads backing this. I missed (1) as well as (2) and frankly if those two are facts already why even discuss on this new incident in regards of CCP <-> BoB ? Especially the " Sirmolle reveals real life information about the said person in the forums and make a real life threat against him" is quite an allegation and would in any other game lead to banning of the player. So - as you drop in these points please link to it or even someone who is not that much of a BoB fan will have trouble believing it. Regards, IOI
CaptainGordon Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:36:00 - [4008] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Aurora Spacefarer I dont know about the rest of you all but I have yet to see any PROOF that any of this is actually true I see a lot of he said she said but the only thing that seams to be true about all this is that 1 or more BoB leaders got the devs MSN names (wich IS wrong they should never have given those to players) but as for the rest there dont seam to be any proff to it am I missing something ?? Aurora Honestly, most of the Goon allegations have already washed. 1. CCP Sharkbait joins their corp to fix some BPO issue... ok? 2. CCP rigs storyline events... ok? Industry standard ... move along. 3. CCP fired some ISD reporter for bumping and smacking BOB .... ok? No big deal* Now, comes the big doozie that remains: 4. Certain groups of players have admitted and flaunted to having direct MSN access to the CCP Dev/GM team. Furthermore, they openly admit to bypassing the petition system in the above issue (#3), and frequently rushing and/or bypassing the petition system entirely in conversations with their friends, the Devs. #4 is very, very, very, very much still on the table. Depending on how the MSN issue is handled will determine whether I keep my 3 accounts in Eve, or move on to another MMO. Liang I would have to agree with this, as a player first and a member of Goonswarm second, here is how I would rate the issues: 1. Msn Dev access 2. ISD scandal - yes its internal CCP politics, but goddamnm that was ugly. Also it is directly tied to #1 3. Sharkbait issue - it is still very much unresolved at the moment 4. Storyline event rigging - doesnt bother me as much, but only because of the other issues on hand. *Who ya' gonna call?*
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:36:00 - [4009] Originally by: Aurora Spacefarer Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Btw... Hello CCP. Why is it taking SO LONG to post results about ISD/MSN thing? As per your own FAQ: (linky) "These misconceptions make the volunteers an easy target. We take accusations of abuse of power or other wrongdoing by the volunteers very seriously and investigate each thoroughly." If that investigation was done thoroughly, you already have the detailed report, so just come out with it. Thank you. ERHM HOLIDAY weekeend EHRM - doesn't seem like HOLIDAY weekend affected announcing other two issues, eh?
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:37:00 - [4010] Edited by: Karlemgne on 28/05/2007 17:37:22 Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: MrJordanIOI Hello Alice I am one of those 10 "alts" who signed Darkstar's very clever rehash of this situation and how it may have come to be. When you are done sorting your single (one!) member in your corporation "Christine" and found time to dry your ears please start a conversation in game or mail me so we can get more intimate. I d like to prove I am not an alt. Thank you for your attention, IOI It's hard to distinguish between alts and mains when there is so much wishful thinking going on. It's obvious people are /signing because of their ineptitude to form their own opinion. It will always be easier to just follow someone you can maby remotely relate to and that does not lie -too- much. Sad to see but not much one can do about it. By the way, i don't mind alts with content. I signed it to, and I'm not an alt. Notice the corp and alliance ticker to your left. Thanks, and have a nice day. -Karlemgne Especially for you i wrote the second reply, you know, the one about your ineptitude to form your own opinion. Try harder. Well, if you'd bothered to pay attention to anything that's happened in this thread over the past couple days, you'd know that I have a rather complete, complex opinion about this whole incident. I "/signed" the particular posters thread because he phrased his opinion in a way that I found compeling. Furthermore, I find myself in agreement with him, which I felt I was relating to the community. But I guess I can't expect much understanding from someone who thinks its memorial day in Iceland. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:37:00 - [4011] Originally by: Malashek Vatrii Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley It's hard to distinguish between alts and mains when there is so much wishful thinking going on. It's obvious people are /signing because of their ineptitude to form their own opinion. It will always be easier to just follow someone you can maby remotely relate to and that does not lie -too- much. Sad to see but not much one can do about it. By the way, i don't mind alts with content. Maybe someone formed a similar opinion and there is no point writing it again with minuscule differences, so /signed is easier. That's the problem with eve nowadays, follow the first poster! It will get you somewhere. Some people believe anything to be true as long as it has been repeated multiple times.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:40:00 - [4012] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Malashek Vatrii Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley It's hard to distinguish between alts and mains when there is so much wishful thinking going on. It's obvious people are /signing because of their ineptitude to form their own opinion. It will always be easier to just follow someone you can maby remotely relate to and that does not lie -too- much. Sad to see but not much one can do about it. By the way, i don't mind alts with content. Maybe someone formed a similar opinion and there is no point writing it again with minuscule differences, so /signed is easier. That's the problem with eve nowadays, follow the first poster! It will get you somewhere. Some people believe anything to be true as long as it has been repeated multiple times. Originally by: Alias11 Just an eff why eye but when you're trying to be condescending and holier-than-thou it really helps if you don't massacre the language with phrases like "their ineptitude to form their own opinion." and then keep quoting and repeating it
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:43:00 - [4013] Originally by: Alias11 Just an eff why eye but when you're trying to be condescending and holier-than-thou it really helps if you don't massacre the language with phrases like "their ineptitude to form their own opinion." English is not my first language, my apologies.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:43:00 - [4014] Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Malashek Vatrii Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley It's hard to distinguish between alts and mains when there is so much wishful thinking going on. It's obvious people are /signing because of their ineptitude to form their own opinion. It will always be easier to just follow someone you can maby remotely relate to and that does not lie -too- much. Sad to see but not much one can do about it. By the way, i don't mind alts with content. Maybe someone formed a similar opinion and there is no point writing it again with minuscule differences, so /signed is easier. That's the problem with eve nowadays, follow the first poster! It will get you somewhere. Some people believe anything to be true as long as it has been repeated multiple times. Originally by: Alias11 Just an eff why eye but when you're trying to be condescending and holier-than-thou it really helps if you don't massacre the language with phrases like "their ineptitude to form their own opinion." and then keep quoting and repeating it Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:46:00 - [4015] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley That's the problem with eve nowadays, follow the first poster! It will get you somewhere. Some people believe anything to be true as long as it has been repeated multiple times. And that's exactly why you bobbits are trying to repeat "It's ok to have dev friends on MSN" over and over again, hoping that people will get used to it. Guess what - to many people it's not ok, and never will. But keep trying mate...
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:46:00 - [4016] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Alias11 Just an eff why eye but when you're trying to be condescending and holier-than-thou it really helps if you don't massacre the language with phrases like "their ineptitude to form their own opinion." English is not my first language, my apologies. Well I'm glad that clears the air. Its also gratifying to see that you aren't challenging the notion that you are "condescending and holier-than-thou." Suddenly I understand you much better. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:48:00 - [4017] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 28/05/2007 17:47:08 Originally by: Karlemgne
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:50:00 - [4018] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Alias11 Just an eff why eye but when you're trying to be condescending and holier-than-thou it really helps if you don't massacre the language with phrases like "their ineptitude to form their own opinion." English is not my first language, my apologies. So you admit you're using words that you don't know the meaning of to sound like you're smart?
MrJordanIOI Minmatar The Lantern Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:53:00 - [4019] Originally by: Alias11 Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Alias11 Just an eff why eye but when you're trying to be condescending and holier-than-thou it really helps if you don't massacre the language with phrases like "their ineptitude to form their own opinion." English is not my first language, my apologies. So you admit you're using words that you don't know the meaning of to sound like you're smart? Heya Alias - I think Alice got her (well deserved) verbal beating. What do you think, shall we move back on topic to not get this thread locked ? ;) IOI
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:58:00 - [4020] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 28/05/2007 17:47:08 Originally by: Karlemgne That was posted before I knew you first language wasn't English. Had I known, I might have been more forgiving; However, you were asking for it. Attacking peoples' intelligence because you don't like their opinion, or the opinions of those they are in argreement with is not only a formal fallicy, but it invites people to critque you in a similar way. Just for your information going into the future. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Mercahnt	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:00:00 - [4021] Originally by: Skrypt "Hi. I'm a goonie. I'm getting wtfpwned. In turn, I'm going to whine on the forums about whatever I can because that's the only place we can win. omg w00t. gooniefleet 4 life!" Too bad CCP values their monthly income too much to ban each one of them just for the sake of having done it. <3 banning for posting on forums deserves it you mean ? but cheating is ok ?
Hachun K'ar	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:00:00 - [4022] Edited by: Hachun K''ar on 28/05/2007 18:01:14 One thing you have to realise is what happens if the ties with BoD yes BoD .. not BoB ... BoD (don't think about changing that.. I have my rights!) are cut and everything is sorted out.. We'd have fun.. contested 0.0! Yayyyyyyyyy! Edit: I check for spelling mistakes.. none are here
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:04:00 - [4023] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: CaptainGordon I would like to see the contents of that mysteriously filed pos petition, because quite frankly, at the moment the word of CCP/GM's just wont do it. If the CCP and the GM staff wont the player trust to be regained, they have to come forward with some stone cold facts instead of "you are going to have to just trust us guys, ok". The stop playing. Nothing somebody "you dont trust" will say will ever be truth to you, so there is no point in you continuing the paranoia. The only thing they would say and you would believe is something you want to here. You wont be able to see the petition, because its a matter of privacy, and then if they do break their own privacy agreement you will *** that they made up that petition, and that you feel abused that they would release private information like that! And yes, I do know thats what you (well maybe not you personally, but your alliance in general) will do. They proved that this weekend by saying "we will never trust bob or ccp" and then trusting bob when they say "omg we us msn to talk to devs" and trusting ccp when they say "t20 cheated". Its a double standard, you will only believe what you want to see and the fact that CCP wasted so much time on little cryababy paranoid skitzos should show you that the company you hate so much goes out of their way to make even the most obnoxious portion of thier community happy, or at least they try their hardest. So quit whining, and give a *** thank you once in a while for all the havoc you wreak on the people who work for CCP's lives. Working overnight, and throughout the whole holiday weekend because you have a stick up your ass without so much of a thank you. And you wonder why most smaller game companies/creators (like web based mmo's and small games like this) hate dealing with the SA crowd. Excuse me but your with what alliance again, you side with who? So since you know them and their your friends they can't posibly be lying, even though they have openly admitted to doing so and haven't been punished in any way, shape, or form? Yet here you are defending them and calling everyone else babies for being **ed cause BoB obviously aren't men enough to win their own battles honestly? I'll say this point blank, how dare you come in here with this tripe and think we don't have a god given right to be offended that a gourp of self aknowledged cheats continue to do so and openly admit that they have. How dare you come in here and defend that cheating as being alright. Do as a person have any honor at all?
Shiv Katall Minmatar Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:07:00 - [4024] It is sad what has been happening to EVE within the past months and to the community. I love playing this game with all of the friends I have made in it, especially with my corp mates and they are the only reason why I still continue to play. But there is only so much that I can take. Kieron says that there are simply no tools available to delete petitions and that for DS1 to say it means they were complete fabrications. Ok, I will buy that. But a petition being closed with no response is pretty much the same thing, just different terminology. DS1 filed a petition in february regarding BPO/C's that would not lock down right. At no time did they file one for POS's. When the CEO noticed the mail about Sharkbait, he tried to file a petition to find out why, it was then "closed" without a response. This whole situation could have been easily avoided if handled differently, yet it was not. What else could DS1 have done to find out what was going on when they were not getting answers thru the petition system? Some other player could have submitted a petition about their POS's, yet DS1 maintains that they have never had a problem with all 3 of them. The best thing we can learn from something like this never coming up again is for the DEV who needs to enter the corp drop a mail and say hey, I was here, had to take a look at such and such to make sure it was operating correctly, this was fixed. Thanks and bye. EVENT RIGGING: From what I understand, if CCP wants a specific side to win, then they will. The only problem I have with that is why bother getting players involved if the event arc is scripted so heavily. Event writers should be prepared for either side to win and adapt the story to that outcome. I would rather do that and have it be more exciting instead of write the whole story and make sure that the side you want to win always does so in order to keep in line with what was written down. BoB with "special lines": Just wrong. Something like this should have been very obvious after the whole T20 thing. But what can be done about it? Nothing. If they dont talk on MSN, then it will be mIRC, or private chats in game. Nothing will change regardless of what is done or said about it. Fire him: I would like to hear another ISD member explain about their warp in procedures to view a battle. If what he did is standard, then its not his fault for bumping the poor dread. In this case, ISD should change their distance. At no time should a player be able to tell a member of CCP or its volunteer program what to do. He did appear to be arrogant in his dealings with BoB, but the same is true of them in this case. From what I have seen thus far, it did not warrant him being canned for over 1 1/2 years worth of contribution to the game. A reprimand, sure. But getting Admiral C on the phone and him jumping over to deal with this and having the member fired is extreme and wrong especially coming at the request of a player alliance. A normal petition like the rest of us and an investigation into the the ISD members conduct should have been the normal course of action. But he should not have been fired if he acted within ISD's protocol, such as not taking orders from players, warping to correct location. If ISD wants to be in a system to report whats going on, they have every damn right to be there. I want this game to be fun. I dont want it to be wrecked by drama and scandals. I get enough of that outside of EVE. I like blowing people up, being blown up, and flying thru space with my ARSED mates. I have been fighting BoB for a long time. I love fighting them. They are challenging and constantly force us to adapt. Its great because I have been made a better player from them. Even with all this drama, the majority of my time in EVE has been enjoyable and I would really like it to remain so. See you out in space. ôNobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack and attack some more.ö
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:10:00 - [4025] Lol at Captain Gordon. Best Signature ever. thumbs up
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:26:00 - [4026] Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: CaptainGordon I would like to see the contents of that mysteriously filed pos petition, because quite frankly, at the moment the word of CCP/GM's just wont do it. If the CCP and the GM staff wont the player trust to be regained, they have to come forward with some stone cold facts instead of "you are going to have to just trust us guys, ok". The stop playing. Nothing somebody "you dont trust" will say will ever be truth to you, so there is no point in you continuing the paranoia. The only thing they would say and you would believe is something you want to here. You wont be able to see the petition, because its a matter of privacy, and then if they do break their own privacy agreement you will *** that they made up that petition, and that you feel abused that they would release private information like that! And yes, I do know thats what you (well maybe not you personally, but your alliance in general) will do. They proved that this weekend by saying "we will never trust bob or ccp" and then trusting bob when they say "omg we us msn to talk to devs" and trusting ccp when they say "t20 cheated". Its a double standard, you will only believe what you want to see and the fact that CCP wasted so much time on little cryababy paranoid skitzos should show you that the company you hate so much goes out of their way to make even the most obnoxious portion of thier community happy, or at least they try their hardest. So quit whining, and give a *** thank you once in a while for all the havoc you wreak on the people who work for CCP's lives. Working overnight, and throughout the whole holiday weekend because you have a stick up your ass without so much of a thank you. And you wonder why most smaller game companies/creators (like web based mmo's and small games like this) hate dealing with the SA crowd. Excuse me but your with what alliance again, you side with who? So since you know them and their your friends they can't posibly be lying, even though they have openly admitted to doing so and haven't been punished in any way, shape, or form? Yet here you are defending them and calling everyone else babies for being **ed cause BoB obviously aren't men enough to win their own battles honestly? I'll say this point blank, how dare you come in here with this tripe and think we don't have a god given right to be offended that a gourp of self aknowledged cheats continue to do so and openly admit that they have. How dare you come in here and defend that cheating as being alright. Do as a person have any honor at all? Learn to read dumbass. I never said I defended cheating. What I said was you idiots will never be happy no matter what answer your given unless its the answer you want to hear. So go play something else, and don't ruin this community like you have ruined many other communities in the past. Not to mention, the havoc you guys caused alot of CCp employees without even a single thread of gratification that they attempted to please the whiners you are. Ive only been on this side of the fence for a while, so dont paint me liek you paint all of bob, I joined to shoot Goons. __________________________________________
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:52:00 - [4027] Originally by: Popsikle Learn to read dumbass. I never said I defended cheating. What I said was you idiots will never be happy no matter what answer your given unless its the answer you want to hear. So go play something else, and don't ruin this community like you have ruined many other communities in the past. Not to mention, the havoc you guys caused alot of CCp employees without even a single thread of gratification that they attempted to please the whiners you are. Ive only been on this side of the fence for a while, so dont paint me liek you paint all of bob, I joined to shoot Goons. Wait a sec here, your the one stating stuff which sure enough sounds like a defense to cheating then you turn around and call me a dumbass, I think you really need to look in a mirror first and find your proper outlet here. Not only that but you might want to learn how to spell like, oh and never assume, I think you can break that up and figure out what it means. In either case I read several of your posts which were nothing more than probob anti-goon flames. This being the case I question if your not just another BoB puppet in here trying to do dirt. If you get right down to it, BoB did far more harm to themselves and ccp in here than even goonswarm did, and for your information on this, I'm not a goon, I'm sitting on a fence right now waiting to see how ccp handles this and I'm very upset that they even allowed this to become an issue in the first place when crap hit the fan last time.
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.28 19:21:00 - [4028] CCP will have nothing to say, they assume we will forget about it and it will blow over...... They will also continue to do these things and probably give BOD a slap on the wrist for allowing that juicy bit of information to slip.
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.28 19:29:00 - [4029] A) Dianabolic directly admits to speaking to CCP GM's and Devs about in-game matters via a behavior outside the rules (MSN) B) Dianabolic goes on to say that its ok, because he's been playing the game for four years. C) Dianabolic directly admits to not using the petition system to get bugs fixed. D) Dianabolic outs himself and other BOB/Alliance members as also speaking with CCP via an outside of the rules mechanism. E) Even only information will change the way the game is played. Therefore, any information given via a 3rd party (outside the rules) is a breach of section 7.2 of the Eve EULA F) Anytime a game's developers speak to parties about that game via personal communication (like MSN to their friends), it is a conflict of interest. In most places, the only proper behavior when queried about privileged information is to refer them to the appropriate source of information (a petition, or the Eve-O forums, or one of the many CCP email addresses, in this case). G) The current allegations are that MSN was used as a primary means of communication with CCP (over petitioning, like the rest of us mere mortals)* H) soon after Dianabolic was quoted for saying these very same things their was a surprisingly large lack of statements made by Dianabolic. Is this not rather interesting? I)The other members of bob have gone out of their way to try and cover this up by their statements here, but the fact remains, they have openly admitted to an unfair advantage, a cheat if you will which nobody else in the game has. J) while anyone else in the game is reprimanded severely for even attempting to make the bod bob joke, bob member do freaquently make this joke and even name their ships dev, something so highly inaproriate that anyone else in the game would be banned for doing so. I'd call issues A-F open and shut (by admission) of cheating. G will be investigated by CCP. The rest? He openly admits it.h - J are my additions to this list which was made earlier. These also hold a very high level of interest to me and should be of concern to everyone else in the game as well.
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 19:35:00 - [4030] Edited by: MehTheTrader on 28/05/2007 19:36:57 BoB cheated, they admitted to it involuntarily, why are they allowed to cheat? It is beyond me. You can only suggest that most of the devs are cheating, if this is the reaction ccp takes. LIKE WTF THEY REHIRED T20???? they accept cheating. CCP why do you accept cheating? CCP money stealers, honestly.
Hachun K'ar	Posted - 2007.05.28 19:37:00 - [4031] Originally by: Xandria Foreman A) Dianabolic directly admits to speaking to CCP GM's and Devs about in-game matters via a behavior outside the rules (MSN) B) Dianabolic goes on to say that its ok, because he's been playing the game for four years. C) Dianabolic directly admits to not using the petition system to get bugs fixed. D) Dianabolic outs himself and other BOB/Alliance members as also speaking with CCP via an outside of the rules mechanism. E) Even only information will change the way the game is played. Therefore, any information given via a 3rd party (outside the rules) is a breach of section 7.2 of the Eve EULA F) Anytime a game's developers speak to parties about that game via personal communication (like MSN to their friends), it is a conflict of interest. In most places, the only proper behavior when queried about privileged information is to refer them to the appropriate source of information (a petition, or the Eve-O forums, or one of the many CCP email addresses, in this case). G) The current allegations are that MSN was used as a primary means of communication with CCP (over petitioning, like the rest of us mere mortals)* H) soon after Dianabolic was quoted for saying these very same things their was a surprisingly large lack of statements made by Dianabolic. Is this not rather interesting? I)The other members of bob have gone out of their way to try and cover this up by their statements here, but the fact remains, they have openly admitted to an unfair advantage, a cheat if you will which nobody else in the game has. J) while anyone else in the game is reprimanded severely for even attempting to make the bod bob joke, bob member do freaquently make this joke and even name their ships dev, something so highly inaproriate that anyone else in the game would be banned for doing so. I'd call issues A-F open and shut (by admission) of cheating. G will be investigated by CCP. The rest? He openly admits it.h - J are my additions to this list which was made earlier. These also hold a very high level of interest to me and should be of concern to everyone else in the game as well. Originally by: MehTheTrader BoB cheated, they admitted to it involuntarily, why are they allowed to cheat? It is beyond me. You can only suggest that most of the devs are cheating, if this is the reaction ccp takes. LIKE WTF THEY REHIRED T20???? they accept cheating. CCP why do you accept cheating? CCP money stealers, honestly. /signed
Nicolas Tesla	Posted - 2007.05.28 19:38:00 - [4032] There are far more than 4 allegations that must be investigated. Only when all of those points (A to J) are adressed, will I consider the investigation finish. The answers will be interesting, and will probably determined the future membership of alot of players. Originally by: Xandria Foreman A) Dianabolic directly admits to speaking to CCP GM's and Devs about in-game matters via a behavior outside the rules (MSN) B) Dianabolic goes on to say that its ok, because he's been playing the game for four years. C) Dianabolic directly admits to not using the petition system to get bugs fixed. D) Dianabolic outs himself and other BOB/Alliance members as also speaking with CCP via an outside of the rules mechanism. E) Even only information will change the way the game is played. Therefore, any information given via a 3rd party (outside the rules) is a breach of section 7.2 of the Eve EULA F) Anytime a game's developers speak to parties about that game via personal communication (like MSN to their friends), it is a conflict of interest. In most places, the only proper behavior when queried about privileged information is to refer them to the appropriate source of information (a petition, or the Eve-O forums, or one of the many CCP email addresses, in this case). G) The current allegations are that MSN was used as a primary means of communication with CCP (over petitioning, like the rest of us mere mortals)* H) soon after Dianabolic was quoted for saying these very same things their was a surprisingly large lack of statements made by Dianabolic. Is this not rather interesting? I)The other members of bob have gone out of their way to try and cover this up by their statements here, but the fact remains, they have openly admitted to an unfair advantage, a cheat if you will which nobody else in the game has. J) while anyone else in the game is reprimanded severely for even attempting to make the bod bob joke, bob member do freaquently make this joke and even name their ships dev, something so highly inaproriate that anyone else in the game would be banned for doing so. quote]
Dowey Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 19:39:00 - [4033] 156 pages on.... Anyways, i've gone through the what detailed "Open Letter to CCP" from the goonfleet site. An to be honest, I can't belive what the ** i'm seeing. Not too much Sharkbait joining & leaving the corp, there was probably somewhat a reasonable explination to that, which i'm not sure whether it's been let out. But the fact of the ISD member being banned, I find that amazing and totally out of order. It gives chatlogs of BoB members admitting they or he have/has MSN contact with CCP, well I find that really distrubing. Not only do BoB have pet's (player followers), they also have CCP on tick (which I class as them being pet's aswell). Mod delete this if its not appropriate but Quote:** [ 2007.03.20 06:30:15 ] Orange Species > isd reporters are not to interfere with gameplay [ 2007.03.20 06:30:22 ] Orange Species > that includes getting too close [ 2007.03.20 06:30:25 ] Orange Species > to our ships [ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her [ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition [ 2007.03.20 06:31:00 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough [ 2007.03.20 06:31:05 ] D4kkon > rgr If that does get removed, anyone that wants to read the full artical, just search digg.com (type CCP). I'd like to stay and keep my characters until this is resolved, but once it does and depending on the outcome, im sure it will sway people's mind to look elsewhere, what's a game when it's not fair. (Also i'm going off the artival i've read and to me that seems to explains alot, and gives more detail than what CCP are letting out) Dowey
LordSlay Them Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.28 19:56:00 - [4034] i know 10 people from my alliance have terminated their accounts thanks to this nonsense, I think CCP need to get their acts strait cause this is complete bull. It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 19:56:00 - [4035] So...what time tomorrow is this thread going to be locked and bans start getting handed out for mentioning it in other threads? Purely out of interest. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:00:00 - [4036] Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:04:00 - [4037] Originally by: Itzena So...what time tomorrow is this thread going to be locked and bans start getting handed out for mentioning it in other threads? Purely out of interest. No idea, however they have many other concerns now, even by the laws in iceland their in trouble. If they are condoning cheating at this level their liable, in the US, in their own country, and in several others, if they start handing out bans, I can forsee mass lawsuits down the way which would destroy eve, I happen to like this game a lot even with the mass cheating bob has inadvetantly admitted to, I would be deeply upset by the removal of one of my few outlets in life. I'm a physically handicapped guy who can barely even make ends meet and this game is one of my only outlets for relieving the daily pain that is my current life. This time aronud they can't use teh ban stick, their the ones at stake. By the look of things as it stands if they take that aproachj this time they will have a client population of 200+, just the devs, and bob, can they really make money with just that?
Alois Hammer Minmatar Hammers Slammers Slammer's Republic	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:04:00 - [4038] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Silly boy declares that social group talks about what they don't know, pretending as if he knows what the social group knows. The circle of stupidity has been completed. i don't pretend to know anything. but its still my guess of what happened. i give a dev trying to earn his paycheck the benefit of the doubt. thank god your not pretending , so far all i have been reading from BOB/RISE is nothing but non-intelligent drivel on the way goonswarm plays. at least so far there has been 2 accusations on GS cheating. 2 (two), and BOB and its allies have been in more mud than what the state of florida has swamps. im tired of having to fight assinine alliances like yours , but trying to fight assinine alliances with dev backing is absolutely ********. hell im willing to push the rock uphill like every honest eve-player , but what you and your kind have done is made a mockery of this fine game. Goonswarm had to resort to your level just to shake the status quo BOB&comp has been feeding all of us for the past year i have been playing. BOB and their characters offend my good taste , the CCP"s behaviour in this instance offends me , and the assinine posts i have to read thru just to snap and tell it how it is ofends me. Goonswarm took the basics of this game and have done alot more for it than anyone so far in-game. they exposed this vile and morbid connection of BOB and CCP acting in cahoots only because BOB was losing and they had to expose their cards. its vile. its disgusting. and anyone at CCP should be ashamed of themselves in trying to cover this mockery up. 200 000 accounts speak volumes of the game. but with this kinda drek going on i highly doubt it will last another season of play BOB , suk it up you were being beaten but you had to go hump CCP leg to get rescued ,this game aint yours or CCP's , its ours , all of us toiling away trying to make ends meet with what we perceived as established rules. i as one never would have thought that the game had two different versions of "rules" , not till now , but if this is how EVE will be played then great , put a discaimer "just be aware of insider-interference and dont pee on BOB" did i leave anything out??? ALOIS HAMMER , NOT an ALT and NOT associated with ANYONE
MightyGuy	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:07:00 - [4039] snip Don't discuss moderation on the forum. Read the Forum Rules. Email us if you have questions -Eldo ([email protected])
Dowey Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:10:00 - [4040] snip Don't discuss moderation on the forum. Read the Forum Rules. Email us if you have questions -Eldo ([email protected]) Dowey
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:12:00 - [4041] Edited by: Dianabolic on 28/05/2007 20:12:04 Originally by: Xandria Foreman A) Dianabolic directly admits to speaking to CCP GM's and Devs about in-game matters via a behavior outside the rules (MSN) B) Dianabolic goes on to say that its ok, because he's been playing the game for four years. C) Dianabolic directly admits to not using the petition system to get bugs fixed. D) Dianabolic outs himself and other BOB/Alliance members as also speaking with CCP via an outside of the rules mechanism. No, he didn't. I admitted to speaking to my FRIENDS on MSN. These are people that were in RKK BEFORE they were employed at CCP. At NO point have we ever used those forms of communication to further a petition or other agenda that should not be done through in-game means. Ever. Don't put words in to my mouth, if you wish to quote me then by all means do so, fully. And, whilst I'm here, for those of you too new to the game to remmeber: The original "dev chats" took place on IRC (out of game). CCP Devs have attended "downtime chats" on public teamspeaks. Even up to the point of Kali (iirc, when in-game alliances were first introduced) then you could find gamesmasters and gm's idol on the coldfront network of IRC. I don't know if you still can, I don't go on there, I must be missing out. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:14:00 - [4042] probably, I bet my sig gets moderated Behold the BOD Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:14:00 - [4043] ITS SO FUNNY T20 GOT HIS JOB BACK. BUT THIS ISD GUY DIDN'T. THAT IS JUST TOO FUNNY I HAVE TO WRITE IN CAPS.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:16:00 - [4044] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 28/05/2007 20:16:30 Originally by: Angelyn Originally by: Itzena So...what time tomorrow is this thread going to be locked and bans start getting handed out for mentioning it in other threads? Purely out of interest. No idea, however they have many other concerns now, even by the laws in iceland their in trouble. If they are condoning cheating at this level their liable, in the US, in their own country, and in several others, if they start handing out bans, I can forsee mass lawsuits down the way which would destroy eve, I happen to like this game a lot even with the mass cheating bob has inadvetantly admitted to. What mass-cheating ? Btw, don't be ridiculous. There's not going to be any massive lawsuits, CCP haven't acted improper in any way. They basically have not taken all the action they possibly could to prevent all possibility for conflicts of interest to arise. But most mmo's out there run at least partly on volunteers and people recruited form the customerbase, as do many other organisations. All of those run the risk of situations arising where a conflict of interest could present itself. And even if one does, that doesn not mean that there's actual cheating going on. It just means that the people involved have contacts that could be used improperly. I wish you all the best basing an international lawsuit on that. Oh wait, no I don't, you're being ridiculous. [center] Old blog
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:17:00 - [4045] hey dianabolic, whats the IP of this 'pubplic' teamspeak you speak of that the devs drop in, I relaly want to have a chit chat with them. Mail it to me ingame please. Behold the BOD Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots This sums it up well: [ur
VInanath Diesel Caldari Freedom of Choice	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:18:00 - [4046] Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ /signed snip Don't troll and do not remove moderation comments -Eldo ([email protected])
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:18:00 - [4047] Originally by: Dianabolic Edited by: Dianabolic on 28/05/2007 20:12:04 Originally by: Xandria Foreman A) Dianabolic directly admits to speaking to CCP GM's and Devs about in-game matters via a behavior outside the rules (MSN) B) Dianabolic goes on to say that its ok, because he's been playing the game for four years. C) Dianabolic directly admits to not using the petition system to get bugs fixed. D) Dianabolic outs himself and other BOB/Alliance members as also speaking with CCP via an outside of the rules mechanism. No, he didn't. I admitted to speaking to my FRIENDS on MSN. These are people that were in RKK BEFORE they were employed at CCP. At NO point have we ever used those forms of communication to further a petition or other agenda that should not be done through in-game means. Ever. Don't put words in to my mouth, if you wish to quote me then by all means do so, fully. And, whilst I'm here, for those of you too new to the game to remmeber: The original "dev chats" took place on IRC (out of game). CCP Devs have attended "downtime chats" on public teamspeaks. Even up to the point of Kali (iirc, when in-game alliances were first introduced) then you could find gamesmasters and gm's idol on the coldfront network of IRC. I don't know if you still can, I don't go on there, I must be missing out. oh really? I suggest you go way up to page 12 where you admit circumventing eve petition by using MSN to take care of eve bugs, not only that but you state that even devs have friends their not robots, you very much did use outside lines and admitted it. This has been quoted and requoted several times within the postings here so you now saying to didn't don't mean a thing even if you go back and edit what you said becasue your original words are already everywhere
Nim9i5	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:18:00 - [4048] Edited by: Nim9i5 on 28/05/2007 20:18:23
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:20:00 - [4049] Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy hey dianabolic, whats the IP of this 'pubplic' teamspeak you speak of that the devs drop in, I relaly want to have a chit chat with them. Mail it to me ingame please. That'd be the Burn Eden teamspeak server they use for extended downtime chats. You know, Burn Eden, the corp that used to be in goonswarm. [center] Old blog
Nim9i5	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:20:00 - [4050] Edited by: Nim9i5 on 28/05/2007 20:19:55
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:20:00 - [4051] Originally by: Dianabolic Edited by: Dianabolic on 28/05/2007 20:12:04 Originally by: Xandria Foreman A) Dianabolic directly admits to speaking to CCP GM's and Devs about in-game matters via a behavior outside the rules (MSN) B) Dianabolic goes on to say that its ok, because he's been playing the game for four years. C) Dianabolic directly admits to not using the petition system to get bugs fixed. D) Dianabolic outs himself and other BOB/Alliance members as also speaking with CCP via an outside of the rules mechanism. No, he didn't. I admitted to speaking to my FRIENDS on MSN. These are people that were in RKK BEFORE they were employed at CCP. At NO point have we ever used those forms of communication to further a petition or other agenda that should not be done through in-game means. Ever. Don't put words in to my mouth, if you wish to quote me then by all means do so, fully. And, whilst I'm here, for those of you too new to the game to remmeber: The original "dev chats" took place on IRC (out of game). CCP Devs have attended "downtime chats" on public teamspeaks. Even up to the point of Kali (iirc, when in-game alliances were first introduced) then you could find gamesmasters and gm's idol on the coldfront network of IRC. I don't know if you still can, I don't go on there, I must be missing out. wtf are you talking about?? did you need even read his op. You added nothing that was conclusive the op's arguement. TO be honest you didn't even address his points. BoB leaders knew about t20 and tried to have devs again hide it. Unfortunately it slipped among other things. Your allaince and yourself have done enough lying. Time to stfu cheater.
Alois Hammer Minmatar Hammers Slammers Slammer's Republic	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:22:00 - [4052] Edited by: Alois Hammer on 28/05/2007 20:23:16 Originally by: fire 59 Goons don't have a leg to stand on tbh when it comes to cheating and as this goes further along, it is becoming increasingly obvious that it is just propoganda to hurt bob. Where was all the paladins of truth and justice when goons hacked there clients to show blues and reds in local before it was an addition to the game? If bob did that you guys would be screaming blue murder. That's pretty much what this all boils down to.I mean seriously, when someone talks of sueing a game because they can't win it, i seriously think that is the time they should step away from the keyboard and go walk and talk with friends about rl and such. I love this game also, have seen many shifty things from my enemies, especially goons but i don't complain about it. your right about goons not having a leg to stand on about cheating , thats purely reserved for BOB and its allies. and this "unravelling "that keeps poping up , huh?? oh noes lemme guess , those devs have finaly warmed up their chairs and gonna save your bacon yet again??? no wonders , i want my own scriptwriters!!! this way when i get caught cheating , i can say "i didnt do it it was the bad man with the beanie-hat that did it............" That's one of the most peculiar things about this all, the goons are almost famous for cheating / dirty tatics / RL smack but are trying to paint themselves as 'the light' . Disturbing mental picture to be perfectly honest. This propoganda you guys are trying to spin is unravelling at an increasing rate, adn the side claims are getting more fantastic as it goes along. If you don't like the game , leave it. I personally don't care because there are certain elements in this game which do not care about the health of the game or the community at all. I have heard stories of how they have infested other games and griefed people and bought games down 'for a laugh'. This thread has gone 150 odd pages but the same things are being said over and over again, just let IA do there investigation and clear the matter up, one way or another i love it when BOB talk drivel...........
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:22:00 - [4053] I'm sure several people in here are just like me, in this I mean they took the time to copy every single page of this forum to a private file so even if it is erased their is a record which cannot be denied later on, good luck trying to delete the truth now CCP, that's just not going to happen
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:23:00 - [4054] I'm still waiting for the IA to adress the issue of special contact between BOB and the Devs.... Quote: [ 2007.03.20 06:30:15 ] Orange Species > isd reporters are not to interfere with gameplay [ 2007.03.20 06:30:22 ] Orange Species > that includes getting too close [ 2007.03.20 06:30:25 ] Orange Species > to our ships [ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her [ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition [ 2007.03.20 06:31:00 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough [ 2007.03.20 06:31:05 ] D4kkon > rgr Behold the BOD Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots This sums it up well: [ur
Alois Hammer Minmatar Hammers Slammers Slammer's Republic	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:27:00 - [4055] Originally by: fire 59 Goons don't have a leg to stand on tbh when it comes to cheating and as this goes further along, it is becoming increasingly obvious that it is just propoganda to hurt bob. Where was all the paladins of truth and justice when goons hacked there clients to show blues and reds in local before it was an addition to the game? If bob did that you guys would be screaming blue murder. . your right about goons not having a leg to stand on about cheating , thats purely reserved for BOB and its allies. and this "unravelling "that keeps poping up , huh?? oh noes lemme guess , those devs have finaly warmed up their chairs and gonna save your bacon yet again??? no wonders , i want my own scriptwriters!!! this way when i get caught cheating , i can say "i didnt do it it was the bad man with the beanie-hat that did it............"
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:28:00 - [4056] Originally by: MightyGuy snip Don't discuss moderation on the forum. Read the Forum Rules. Email us if you have questions -Eldo ([email protected]) This was moderated 2mins after posting it not 5 min snip URL nerfed. You should know not to post this by now =/ - Karass Sayfo - next minnie Outpost bpc me:5 available in 25 days -
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:30:00 - [4057] Originally by: MehTheTrader bobbits are tripping over their lies i find it funny how bob has lead the goons around. all it takes is a ill just have my developer friends take care of it. lol there are developers in every alliance. this is to get a jump on the load balance. do you really thing a large blob can travel without knocking every node they hit off line ? . oh goons thats right.
Emeline Cabernet Amarr KVA Noble Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:32:00 - [4058] Originally by: Dianabolic Edited by: Dianabolic on 28/05/2007 20:12:04 Originally by: Xandria Foreman A) Dianabolic directly admits to speaking to CCP GM's and Devs about in-game matters via a behavior outside the rules (MSN) B) Dianabolic goes on to say that its ok, because he's been playing the game for four years. C) Dianabolic directly admits to not using the petition system to get bugs fixed. D) Dianabolic outs himself and other BOB/Alliance members as also speaking with CCP via an outside of the rules mechanism. No, he didn't. I admitted to speaking to my FRIENDS on MSN. These are people that were in RKK BEFORE they were employed at CCP. At NO point have we ever used those forms of communication to further a petition or other agenda that should not be done through in-game means. Ever. Don't put words in to my mouth, if you wish to quote me then by all means do so, fully. And, whilst I'm here, for those of you too new to the game to remmeber: The original "dev chats" took place on IRC (out of game). CCP Devs have attended "downtime chats" on public teamspeaks. Even up to the point of Kali (iirc, when in-game alliances were first introduced) then you could find gamesmasters and gm's idol on the coldfront network of IRC. I don't know if you still can, I don't go on there, I must be missing out. shiva.......please feel free to check it via your msn network. Your friends which are now employed in ccp. you still cant see whats wrong?
Shad0wsFury The Burning Orphans Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:32:00 - [4059] I have to say that I'm shocked by the apparent lack of professionalism by the members of CCP, if these allegations are based in truth. I would have no problem with employees of CCP being "friends" with people they met within EVE, assuming they had the maturity and professionalism to not abuse the powers they have to further their own agendas or those of their corporations or alliances or the agendas of their "friends". Unfortunately those things have already happened, and instead of putting measures in place to see that it wouldn't happen again, it was somewhat brushed under the rug and ignored as a 'one bad apple' incident. Now we find ourselves in the middle of yet another scandal, and the worst part about it is that it could have been avoided by taking a proactive stance on employee/player relations after the last /i] scandal. It's too bad that a few individuals making poor decisions had to bring it to this point, but I think the only way that CCP can resolve this issue is to institute a VERY strong policy regarding employee player accounts, and interaction between employees and players. It would probably also be wise to create new player characters for any characters [i]knownto be employees of CCP, and if they EVER speak of their connection to CCP again (to another player), it should be an instant termination (of course this wouldn't apply to any official accounts, but only those for personal use). I originally decided to check out EVE Online after hearing that it was a space-based MMO. I was pleasantly surprised by the dedication of CCP to provide new content and patches on a frequent basis, and by their overall devotion to just continually making EVE Online a better game on a daily basis. Please do not let this situation get further out of hand and let it further darken all the previous accomplishments made by CCP regarding EVE.
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:44:00 - [4060] Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy I'm still waiting for the IA to adress the issue of special contact between BOB and the Devs.... Please do not post that. Thanks, Hango isd protecting bob, I see nothing wrong in there. Correct me if im wrong. I cannot believe ccp, so corrupt, so corrupt.
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:47:00 - [4061] Edited by: Itzena on 28/05/2007 20:47:12 Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy I'm still waiting for the IA to adress the issue of special contact between BOB and the Devs.... Please do not post that. Thanks, Hango isd protecting bob, I see nothing wrong in there.. Nothing new there. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:49:00 - [4062] i for one, see ccp as being very weak lately in alota aspects of how they run EVE. Would like to see some improvments and not just posts saying that everything under discussion was perfectly legit, when theres obviously something amiss even if its not that big.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:50:00 - [4063] Quote: I was pleasantly surprised by the dedication of CCP to provide new content and patches on a frequent basis, and by their overall devotion to just continually making EVE Online a better game on a daily basis How do you think they are able to do this ? How do you think the reputation for an involved company with excellent feedback communications towards their customers was formed ? It is because of the now over a hundred developers working at CCP, and the probably as numerous volunteers involved in the different ISD disciplines, a majority most likely got recruited from the playerbase. There's all kinds of people involved in bringin this game forward. There's traders, industrialists, pvp'ers etc. A regular cross-section of the playerbase, except for the difference that these people are more dedicated then the average player and started doing for example bughunting or event volunteering. This whole list of issues is now down to one single issue: CCP allows people that help them in the function of volunteer, dev or GM to retain contacts with the freinds they made while they played the game in previous years, or even before that. While I can see how this might make some people uneasy, especially when they feel wronged or perceive all kinds of injustices going on ingame, it is not something that is going to change. You could stop every single CCP employee or volunteer to stop playing. But that would just mean that alot of them stop helping CCP, and that Eve suffers as a result. It is also simply impossible and immoral to demand that people that volunteer or are asked by CCP to help them in some form are required to sever all ties with people still playing. I don't see how this can even be an issue tbh. Emotion is playing mean tricks on alot of people in this thread I guess. There's only one question: what can CCP do to introduce checks and balances into the dev/ISD/GM to player relations where it is needed ? All these 150 pages have amoutned to is a public smearing of CCP's name, undeserved as far as can be discerned, and most certainly off the mark in tone and timing. [center] Old blog
Hachun K'ar	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:50:00 - [4064] Do not remove moderator edits. If you have an issue with how your post was handled, email [email protected] instead. Thank you. -Hango
Dowey Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:51:00 - [4065] Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy I'm still waiting for the IA to adress the issue of special contact between BOB and the Devs.... Please do not post that. Thanks, Hango isd protecting bob, I see nothing wrong in there. Correct me if im wrong. I cannot believe ccp, so corrupt, so corrupt. It was also the same chatlog that was put in my post , it's a sad sad day, my first post thats been moderated in my entire time on EVE (not just this character) Dowey
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:52:00 - [4066] Edited by: Itzena on 28/05/2007 20:52:52 Edited by: Itzena on 28/05/2007 20:52:30 Originally by: Rod Blaine Quote: I was pleasantly surprised by the dedication of CCP to provide new content and patches on a frequent basis, and by their overall devotion to just continually making EVE Online a better game on a daily basis How do you think they are able to do this ? How do you think the reputation for an involved company with excellent feedback communications towards their customers was formed ? It is because of the now over a hundred developers working at CCP, and the probably as numerous volunteers involved in the different ISD disciplines, a majority most likely got recruited from the playerbase. There's all kinds of people involved in bringin this game forward. There's traders, industrialists, pvp'ers etc. A regular cross-section of the playerbase, except for the difference that these people are more dedicated then the average player and started doing for example bughunting or event volunteering. This whole list of issues is now down to one single issue: CCP allows people that help them in the function of volunteer, dev or GM to retain contacts with the freinds they made while they played the game in previous years, or even before that. While I can see how this might make some people uneasy, especially when they feel wronged or perceive all kinds of injustices going on ingame, it is not something that is going to change. You could stop every single CCP employee or volunteer to stop playing. But that would just mean that alot of them stop helping CCP, and that Eve suffers as a result. It is also simply impossible and immoral to demand that people that volunteer or are asked by CCP to help them in some form are required to sever all ties with people still playing. Funny how pretty much every single other MMOG manages fine without the resident uberguilds having the devs in their back pocket, -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:54:00 - [4067] Originally by: Itzena Originally by: Rod Blaine Quote: I was pleasantly surprised by the dedication of CCP to provide new content and patches on a frequent basis, and by their overall devotion to just continually making EVE Online a better game on a daily basis How do you think they are able to do this ? How do you think the reputation for an involved company with excellent feedback communications towards their customers was formed ? It is because of the now over a hundred developers working at CCP, and the probably as numerous volunteers involved in the different ISD disciplines, a majority most likely got recruited from the playerbase. There's all kinds of people involved in bringin this game forward. There's traders, industrialists, pvp'ers etc. A regular cross-section of the playerbase, except for the difference that these people are more dedicated then the average player and started doing for example bughunting or event volunteering. This whole list of issues is now down to one single issue: CCP allows people that help them in the function of volunteer, dev or GM to retain contacts with the freinds they made while they played the game in previous years, or even before that. While I can see how this might make some people uneasy, especially when they feel wronged or perceive all kinds of injustices going on ingame, it is not something that is going to change. You could stop every single CCP employee or volunteer to stop playing. But that would just mean that alot of them stop helping CCP, and that Eve suffers as a result. It is also simply impossible and immoral to demand that people that volunteer or are asked by CCP to help them in some form are required to sever all ties with people still playing. I don't see how this can even be an issue tbh. Emotion is playing mean tricks on alot of people in this thread I guess. There's only one question: what can CCP do to introduce checks and balances into the dev/ISD/GM to player relations where it is needed ? All these 150 pages have amoutned to is a public smearing of CCP's name, undeserved as far as can be discerned, and most certainly off the mark in tone and timing. Funny how pretty much every single other MMOG manages fine. Funny how you are wrong. From the days of Ultima Online eveyr major MMO out there ahs run at elast in part on volunteers. The smaller the title and the more freeform the gameplay, the greater the relative number of people involved. [center] Old blog
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:54:00 - [4068] We want the truth, the full truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god, I'm not fully sure, but you don't seem to be giving this, you have several members of bobo here in this mail area directly contradicting themselves so many times it's like they were given nearly fifty different stories, and before you ask I took the time to read all 150 + pages, every single last one of them.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:54:00 - [4069] Originally by: Alois Hammer Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA Silly boy declares that social group talks about what they don't know, pretending as if he knows what the social group knows. The circle of stupidity has been completed. i don't pretend to know anything. but its still my guess of what happened. i give a dev trying to earn his paycheck the benefit of the doubt. thank god your not pretending , so far all i have been reading from BOB/RISE is nothing but non-intelligent drivel on the way goonswarm plays. at least so far there has been 2 accusations on GS cheating. 2 (two), and BOB and its allies have been in more mud than what the state of florida has swamps. im tired of having to fight assinine alliances like yours , but trying to fight assinine alliances with dev backing is absolutely ******. hell im willing to push the rock uphill like every honest eve-player , but what you and your kind have done is made a mockery of this fine game. Goonswarm had to resort to your level just to shake the status quo BOB&comp has been feeding all of us for the past year i have been playing. BOB and their characters offend my good taste , the CCP"s behaviour in this instance offends me , and the assinine posts i have to read thru just to snap and tell it how it is ofends me. Goonswarm took the basics of this game and have done alot more for it than anyone so far in-game. they exposed this vile and morbid connection of BOB and CCP acting in cahoots only because BOB was losing and they had to expose their cards. its vile. its disgusting. and anyone at CCP should be ashamed of themselves in trying to cover this mockery up. 200 000 accounts speak volumes of the game. but with this kinda drek going on i highly doubt it will last another season of play BOB , suk it up you were being beaten but you had to go hump CCP leg to get rescued ,this game aint yours or CCP's , its ours , all of us toiling away trying to make ends meet with what we perceived as established rules. i as one never would have thought that the game had two different versions of "rules" , not till now , but if this is how EVE will be played then great , put a discaimer "just be aware of insider-interference and dont pee on BOB" did i leave anything out??? ALOIS HAMMER , NOT an ALT and NOT associated with ANYONE 3 years i've spent in this game. 3 years ...and you know all about me dont you? Sure! It says Rise under my name, i must be a dev cheater cause i'm allied w/ bob. What did you say again about us? we made a mockery of the game? Me and mine joined our side of this war after we saw what RA and goons are really all about. I have fought campaigns against BOTH sides of this current war. You really have no idea. You say bob made its way by cheating... yet at least they lost what they gained by t20 cheating, RA still has all their isk from MONTHS AND MONTHS OF EXPLOITS!! "Bob and its allies have been more in mud than..."?? I know I see alot of ppl screaming 'cheaters' for the past year. Besides this incident of them reporting an ISD reporter (again, nothing to do with ANY TYPE of ingame advantage) the ONLY RECORED of any cheating was t20! So yeah, I guess if for you that = ALL BOB AND ALL ITS ALLIES CHEAT! you came to the right thread You do realize you are surrounded by them right? Cheaters. Every corp, every alliance, empire and 0.0 alike, there are cheaters everywhere. But we understand the simple minded** like you need to label one alliance the 'cheaters' , paint em all one color (ignore all their individual accomplishments) just so you have something to scream at. Just go right along barking w/ the goons at the moon. Mob mentality at its finest. and you call MY posts "non-intelligent drivel"?? Just forget about how many of us have legitimately busted our asses for YEARS to accomplish what we have done... write us off. oh....and at what point was Bob losing again?
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:55:00 - [4070] Edited by: Capt Rob on 28/05/2007 20:54:08 Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Itzena Originally by: Rod Blaine Quote: I was pleasantly surprised by the dedication of CCP to provide new content and patches on a frequent basis, and by their overall devotion to just continually making EVE Online a better game on a daily basis How do you think they are able to do this ? How do you think the reputation for an involved company with excellent feedback communications towards their customers was formed ? It is because of the now over a hundred developers working at CCP, and the probably as numerous volunteers involved in the different ISD disciplines, a majority most likely got recruited from the playerbase. There's all kinds of people involved in bringin this game forward. There's traders, industrialists, pvp'ers etc. A regular cross-section of the playerbase, except for the difference that these people are more dedicated then the average player and started doing for example bughunting or event volunteering. This whole list of issues is now down to one single issue: CCP allows people that help them in the function of volunteer, dev or GM to retain contacts with the freinds they made while they played the game in previous years, or even before that. While I can see how this might make some people uneasy, especially when they feel wronged or perceive all kinds of injustices going on ingame, it is not something that is going to change. You could stop every single CCP employee or volunteer to stop playing. But that would just mean that alot of them stop helping CCP, and that Eve suffers as a result. It is also simply impossible and immoral to demand that people that volunteer or are asked by CCP to help them in some form are required to sever all ties with people still playing. I don't see how this can even be an issue tbh. Emotion is playing mean tricks on alot of people in this thread I guess. There's only one question: what can CCP do to introduce checks and balances into the dev/ISD/GM to player relations where it is needed ? All these 150 pages have amoutned to is a public smearing of CCP's name, undeserved as far as can be discerned, and most certainly off the mark in tone and timing. Funny how pretty much every single other MMOG manages fine. Funny how you are wrong. From the days of Ultima Online eveyr major MMO out there ahs run at elast in part on volunteers. The smaller the title and the more freeform the gameplay, the greater the relative number of people involved. tbh i find neither of your errors funny
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:55:00 - [4071] Edited by: Itzena on 28/05/2007 20:54:13 UO doesn't have volunteers in their game any more. Want to know why? One too many corruption scandals, and EA/Origin finally wised up. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:57:00 - [4072] Originally by: Rod Blaine Quote: I was pleasantly surprised by the dedication of CCP to provide new content and patches on a frequent basis, and by their overall devotion to just continually making EVE Online a better game on a daily basis How do you think they are able to do this ? How do you think the reputation for an involved company with excellent feedback communications towards their customers was formed ? It is because of the now over a hundred developers working at CCP, and the probably as numerous volunteers involved in the different ISD disciplines, a majority most likely got recruited from the playerbase. There's all kinds of people involved in bringin this game forward. There's traders, industrialists, pvp'ers etc. A regular cross-section of the playerbase, except for the difference that these people are more dedicated then the average player and started doing for example bughunting or event volunteering. This whole list of issues is now down to one single issue: CCP allows people that help them in the function of volunteer, dev or GM to retain contacts with the freinds they made while they played the game in previous years, or even before that. While I can see how this might make some people uneasy, especially when they feel wronged or perceive all kinds of injustices going on ingame, it is not something that is going to change. You could stop every single CCP employee or volunteer to stop playing. But that would just mean that alot of them stop helping CCP, and that Eve suffers as a result. It is also simply impossible and immoral to demand that people that volunteer or are asked by CCP to help them in some form are required to sever all ties with people still playing. I don't see how this can even be an issue tbh. Emotion is playing mean tricks on alot of people in this thread I guess. There's only one question: what can CCP do to introduce checks and balances into the dev/ISD/GM to player relations where it is needed ? All these 150 pages have amoutned to is a public smearing of CCP's name, undeserved as far as can be discerned, and most certainly off the mark in tone and timing. Yes there are alot of good people in ccp. But with the system they use it allows those apparently many bad workers to CHEAT. your alliance apparently has no integrity and uses devs to CHEAT, so please stfu. T20 GOT REHIRED, AND ISD GUY GOT FIRED DO I NEED SAY MORE! bob your blatant lies are quite ridiculous imho.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:57:00 - [4073] Originally by: Alois Hammer . your right about goons not having a leg to stand on about cheating , thats purely reserved for BOB and its allies. Hey, dont forget every single employee at CCP. All of them are in on it too.
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:57:00 - [4074] is there some sort of rule against posting in game chat logs on the fourums? Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:58:00 - [4075] Edited by: MehTheTrader on 28/05/2007 20:56:58 this guy should be fired honestly. Hango. he is using his power unjustly.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:58:00 - [4076] Originally by: Itzena Edited by: Itzena on 28/05/2007 20:54:13 UO doesn't have volunteers in their game any more. Want to know why? One too many corruption scandals, and EA/Origin finally wised up. It's also a crap game. I used to volunteer in UO btw, and the amount fo scandals was actually pretty minor compared to the amount of exploiting going on through bugged game mechanics that weren't fixed because of lacking testing. Wonder how come EA never got their testing under control there, oh wait ... [center] Old blog
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:58:00 - [4077] EVE-GATE!
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:59:00 - [4078] I've followed this thread closely but I must admit I've lost track of it all after a few hours of pewpewing ingame. Can someone enlighten me on what exactly this so called "scandal" is? First it was supposed to be sharkbait doing something fishy, now that proved not to be a scandal. Both by info presented by CCP and by the logical fallacy of the accusation (lack of motive). Secondly it was the issue where an ISD reporter got sacked for misbehaving. BoB supposedly reported the matter via out of game means, wich could be an issue but hardly a scandal worthy of this kind of attention (it's a totally different issue). I would never belive an employee or "helper" from any company wich have been fired!! That usually says ALOT about that person, you don't get fired for nothing, not even from CCP, wich later instances have shown). Now what is left, what's the next scandal issue? T20? C'mon, that was covered up and down months ago. CCP installed IA department to deal with the problem. People disagree, some even say that the entire BoB alliance should be dissolved (by the way, punishing innocent players, yes most of the Bobbits prolly didn't and most likely have no idea about what goes on up in the higher ranks) now THAT would be a scandal. So besides the Goons going all crazy (somehow since Remedial stepping down from Goon leadership) and making "donkeys" out of themselves. What is the issue? I'm dead serious... If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:02:00 - [4079] Originally by: Thargat I've followed this thread closely but I must admit I've lost track of it all after a few hours of pewpewing ingame. Can someone enlighten me on what exactly this so called "scandal" is? First it was supposed to be sharkbait doing something fishy, now that proved not to be a scandal. Both by info presented by CCP and by the logical fallacy of the accusation (lack of motive). Secondly it was the issue where an ISD reporter got sacked for misbehaving. BoB supposedly reported the matter via out of game means, wich could be an issue but hardly a scandal worthy of this kind of attention (it's a totally different issue). I would never belive an employee or "helper" from any company wich have been fired!! That usually says ALOT about that person, you don't get fired for nothing, not even from CCP, wich later instances have shown). Now what is left, what's the next scandal issue? T20? C'mon, that was covered up and down months ago. CCP installed IA department to deal with the problem. People disagree, some even say that the entire BoB alliance should be dissolved (by the way, punishing innocent players, yes most of the Bobbits prolly didn't and most likely have no idea about what goes on up in the higher ranks) now THAT would be a scandal. So besides the Goons going all crazy (somehow since Remedial stepping down from Goon leadership) and making "donkeys" out of themselves. What is the issue? I'm dead serious... yup, thats about it! You can consider yourself up to speed on the "scandal".
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:02:00 - [4080] EA UO , time warner SWG, and Everquest were all sued and lost in court dealing with cases jsut like you bob types are making here, and your own words in this forum would be ample evidence. As for me, I have no interest in such things I want to play the game, and I want to play a fair game. while you personally may not be using a cheat, several members of a corp your allied with have in the past and are currently using cheats and admit to it even if they then change their words afterword. The fact that T20 was broguht back is even more scandal because he no doubt has those same ties and may well be doing the exact thing yet again. Once burned twice shy.... I've been burned several times in my life over the years. While I may decide to do nothing several other people will look at this and if the correct steps are not taken, they will take them and force the issue.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:04:00 - [4081] Originally by: MehTheTrader Yes there are alot of good people in ccp. But with the system they use it allows those apparently many bad workers to CHEAT. your alliance apparently has no integrity and uses devs to CHEAT, so please stfu. T20 GOT REHIRED, AND ISD GUY GOT FIRED DO I NEED SAY MORE! bob your blatant lies are quite ridiculous imho. You're actually wrong on every count in your post here. T20- wasn't re-hired, he was never fired because of an internal error at CCP. CCP's ceo wasn't there at the time and a wrong decision was made. I'd have rather seen him sacked as well tbh, but that's not legally possible anymore. The ISD guy was a volunteer, hence he has no legal contract of employment, thus he can get sent packing at any time CCP chooses. It's something you agree to when you volunteer. You also don't know wether we use devs to cheat. Apaarently we don't, seeing how there's no evidence of it to be seen anywhere. You also don't know **** about wether or not that ISD guy had any previous marks on his 'record' so to say. For all you know he had been caught interfering or smacking on earlier occasions. All you have to go on is his story after all. But hey, don't let that all stop you. Go ahead and rant some more. It's not people like you that I post here for anyway, it's for those that still have some ability for reasoning left after 157 pages of drivel. [center] Old blog
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:04:00 - [4082] Edited by: MehTheTrader on 28/05/2007 21:03:30 Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Itzena Edited by: Itzena on 28/05/2007 20:54:13 UO doesn't have volunteers in their game any more. Want to know why? One too many corruption scandals, and EA/Origin finally wised up. It's also a crap game. I used to volunteer in UO btw, and the amount fo scandals was actually pretty minor compared to the amount of exploiting going on through bugged game mechanics that weren't fixed because of lacking testing. Wonder how come EA never got their testing under control there, oh wait ... so your saying its okay that devs cheat?? do you not understand that cheating makes a game worthless. There is a test server, so cut the bs.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:07:00 - [4083] Originally by: Xandria Foreman While I may decide to do nothing several other people will look at this and if the correct steps are not taken, they will take them and force the issue. I wish them the best of luck. Please send me an evemail witht he court date and location, I wouldn't want to miss seeing this thread repeated in RL. [center] Old blog
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:08:00 - [4084] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: MehTheTrader Yes there are alot of good people in ccp. But with the system they use it allows those apparently many bad workers to CHEAT. your alliance apparently has no integrity and uses devs to CHEAT, so please stfu. T20 GOT REHIRED, AND ISD GUY GOT FIRED DO I NEED SAY MORE! bob your blatant lies are quite ridiculous imho. You're actually wrong on every count in your post here. T20- wasn't re-hired, he was never fired because of an internal error at CCP. CCP's ceo wasn't there at the time and a wrong decision was made. I'd have rather seen him sacked as well tbh, but that's not legally possible anymore. The ISD guy was a volunteer, hence he has no legal contract of employment, thus he can get sent packing at any time CCP chooses. It's something you agree to when you volunteer. You also don't know wether we use devs to cheat. Apaarently we don't, seeing how there's no evidence of it to be seen anywhere. You also don't know **** about wether or not that ISD guy had any previous marks on his 'record' so to say. For all you know he had been caught interfering or smacking on earlier occasions. All you have to go on is his story after all. But hey, don't let that all stop you. Go ahead and rant some more. It's not people like you that I post here for anyway, it's for those that still have some ability for reasoning left after 157 pages of drivel. If bob played with honor in game, and did not use bugs/scam/bump **** out of pos. Then i might believe, but frankly your alliance has no integrity, srry. And for all I know you made up all that crap. How would you know that are you a dev?
Sensless Killing	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:09:00 - [4085] Originally by: Macro Terrorist Originally by: Darkstar BP This is an utterly fascinating slow motion of a trainwreck as it happens. There is beauty in decay, if you are willing to see it. I see the drama, the anger that is permeating the community at the moment and the rot, the fundamental distrust in CCP, starts to spread out. Did anyone notice that the anger has even begun to seep into CCPÆs responses? Just look at KieronÆs responses in the other thread made on the 27th. Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. And another /signed Yay i can be like bob alt too!, signed
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:10:00 - [4086] Edited by: HankMurphy on 28/05/2007 21:09:26 inappropriate. self snip
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:10:00 - [4087] Originally by: Thargat I've followed this thread closely but I must admit I've lost track of it all after a few hours of pewpewing ingame. Can someone enlighten me on what exactly this so called "scandal" is? First it was supposed to be sharkbait doing something fishy, now that proved not to be a scandal. Both by info presented by CCP and by the logical fallacy of the accusation (lack of motive). Secondly it was the issue where an ISD reporter got sacked for misbehaving. BoB supposedly reported the matter via out of game means, wich could be an issue but hardly a scandal worthy of this kind of attention (it's a totally different issue). I would never belive an employee or "helper" from any company wich have been fired!! That usually says ALOT about that person, you don't get fired for nothing, not even from CCP, wich later instances have shown). Now what is left, what's the next scandal issue? T20? C'mon, that was covered up and down months ago. CCP installed IA department to deal with the problem. People disagree, some even say that the entire BoB alliance should be dissolved (by the way, punishing innocent players, yes most of the Bobbits prolly didn't and most likely have no idea about what goes on up in the higher ranks) now THAT would be a scandal. So besides the Goons going all crazy (somehow since Remedial stepping down from Goon leadership) and making "donkeys" out of themselves. What is the issue? I'm dead serious... A alliance getting a special line to the CCP-cave for petitions and private chats not a scandal? Its a scandal on a massive scale. It basically puts every accusation from the past into a whole new type of shadow. Its no longer about gms or devs scouting ahead of fleets, now its raw data that might have been fed to fleets. Shiptypes, numbers in sorrounding systems, anything can have been fed through MSN and any kind of request can have been made through MSN.. BoBsters have allready confirmed that they used MSN to press petitions around the paying player petition line. Its then not a very long shot to belive they used it to gain other advantages. The T20 matter was never settled. There was a hole dugg, everything concerning that matter was thrown into that hole, Kugu dug it up and displayed it to the world. The illgotten BPO's were removed and nothing more happened. People get banned for using fraud curier missions for god sake! Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:10:00 - [4088] Tehse are the facts as they stand, while some may come out and try to deny and sidetrack them, those who took the time to read over everything and have been follwing it from post one know them to be true, especially since bob themselves provided most of the damining evidence against them in this very thread. Originally by: Xandria Foreman A) Dianabolic directly admits to speaking to CCP GM's and Devs about in-game matters via a behavior outside the rules (MSN) B) Dianabolic goes on to say that its ok, because he's been playing the game for four years. C) Dianabolic directly admits to not using the petition system to get bugs fixed. D) Dianabolic outs himself and other BOB/Alliance members as also speaking with CCP via an outside of the rules mechanism. E) Even only information will change the way the game is played. Therefore, any information given via a 3rd party (outside the rules) is a breach of section 7.2 of the Eve EULA F) Anytime a game's developers speak to parties about that game via personal communication (like MSN to their friends), it is a conflict of interest. In most places, the only proper behavior when queried about privileged information is to refer them to the appropriate source of information (a petition, or the Eve-O forums, or one of the many CCP email addresses, in this case). G) The current allegations are that MSN was used as a primary means of communication with CCP (over petitioning, like the rest of us mere mortals)* H) soon after Dianabolic was quoted for saying these very same things their was a surprisingly large lack of statements made by Dianabolic. Is this not rather interesting? I)The other members of bob have gone out of their way to try and cover this up by their statements here, but the fact remains, they have openly admitted to an unfair advantage, a cheat if you will which nobody else in the game has. J) while anyone else in the game is reprimanded severely for even attempting to make the bod bob joke, bob member do freaquently make this joke and even name their ships dev, something so highly inaproriate that anyone else in the game would be banned for doing so. I'd call issues A-F open and shut (by admission) of cheating. G will be investigated by CCP. The rest? He openly admits it.h - J are my additions to this list which was made earlier. These also hold a very high level of interest to me and should be of concern to everyone else in the game as well.
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:11:00 - [4089] is there some rule against posting in game chat logs into fourums? Im still tring to figure out why I was censored...... Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:13:00 - [4090] Edited by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy on 28/05/2007 21:12:14 Originally by: Shadow Elk A alliance getting a special line to the CCP-cave for petitions and private chats not a scandal? Its a scandal on a massive scale. It basically puts every accusation from the past into a whole new type of shadow. Its no longer about gms or devs scouting ahead of fleets, now its raw data that might have been fed to fleets. Shiptypes, numbers in sorrounding systems, anything can have been fed through MSN and any kind of request can have been made through MSN.. BoBsters have allready confirmed that they used MSN to press petitions around the paying player petition line. Its then not a very long shot to belive they used it to gain other advantages. The T20 matter was never settled. There was a hole dugg, everything concerning that matter was thrown into that hole, Kugu dug it up and displayed it to the world. The illgotten BPO's were removed and nothing more happened. People get banned for using fraud curier missions for god sake! Well put shadow elk...... Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
Doctor West	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:15:00 - [4091] From a SA-poster that alledgedly was an EVE-O moderator; Quote: Posted by: Eponine Astarte Industrial Holdings Unlimited I'm not bothered by there being devs in BoB. There should be devs involved in 0.0 politics, just as there should be devs who are high sec mission runners, low-sec pirates, and Jita industrialsits. But here is what REALLY bothers me: How did Dianbolic know that the person who petitioned Inos was an alt? The person who petitioned Inos did so anonymously because he feared that BoB would find out the identity of his main. The fact that a BoB director was able to identify who the alt was is pretty disturbing. That, more than the mere existence of a BoB GM, shows how they are abusing their positions within CCP and using their jobs to gain an in-game advantage. Dianbolic should never have had any clue whatsoever as to who the petitioner was, yet lo and behold he did. I'll tell you exactly how he did this, because I did it once. Petitions are tied to your account name. Normal forum moderators (like I was) can see your account name when we give you a warning on the forums. We cannot see what other characters are tied to that account name, but obviously it's pretty easy to identify an alt if you check the warning history on two different characters: not only will the warnings all be there (even though the names are blanked out for different characters) but their account name will be there if you try to send them an email. There was once someone we suspected strongly as a traitor in an allied corporation. The enemy we'd been fighting was pretty well-informed as to our movements, and there was a certain character that always seemed to show up at the right time. So what did I do? I looked up both characters on the forum. They were on a different account, sure, but the person behind them hadn't been real smart: one of the accounts simply had a "1" appended to the end of it. Nailed him. We ended up luring his main character out and podding him in Yulai before booting him from the corp. What I did was certainly an abuse of power, but trust me, it happens ALL the time. I had a friend in Aurora (the events program) who would feed me intel about where events would be and what they'd be like. I could just show up at the right time in the correct type of ship, participate, and snag the reward. I got a +4 implant that way before level 4 agents existed, much less loyalty points and rewards. Everyone did this, and they've been doing it since the game came out. About 6 months into the game we were told not to use our Polaris character's /tr commands to scout the game for good mining spots. We still did it because nobody bothered to track us (even if they could--their tools were rudimentary at best back then). Pann's player character was in my corp and she had to leave around that same time because CCP didn't want CCP employee characters to be known. In my IRC chat logs there is a good amount of circumstancial evidence of high-up Polaris members (people with more authority and rights than me) were in BoB (and others. I don't remember perfectly but I believe one of the major players in MC is a Polaris Captain.) A friend and I were able to identify over the course of several months the other Polaris members that were in our alliance and in other alliances--a fun little game. Anyway, it's pretty gratifying to finally see this all exposed. There's a lot more of it happening in lesser degrees, and there always will be, but the CCP I know is only going to take care of stuff that's exposed. Just remember it's all subtle--the people that do this stuff have to be smart and cautious, which is why it took so long to get caught. The stuff I did was incredibly minor, which is why I was never caught. Have fun.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:16:00 - [4092] Originally by: MehTheTrader so your saying its okay that devs cheat?? do you not understand that cheating makes a game worthless. There is a test server, so cut the bs. No it's most obviously not ok. However there's been one proven instance of a cheating dev in 4 years of Eve. Now, just for a minute assume that on average 50 devs have been playing Eve for the last four years. Also just assume that the game knowledge they assembled that way allowed them to stop even one major regular player exploit before it got exploited, or allowed them to make one major gameplay mechanic just 10% more attractive. Then what does that add up to ? [center] Old blog
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:19:00 - [4093] Rod Blaine, your own 'brothers' if you will have admitted towards favoritism. Now BOB damage controll is trying to make it sound ok, but its not. There have been proven cheats, bob has been shown to have unfarily recieved t2 bpos, that they held onto for 6 months. God knows how many t2 ships I fought that bob was flying that came from these bpos! and what happens, just a slap on the wrist. Many people have been banned from game for far less. Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
CaptainGordon Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:20:00 - [4094] Please do not discuss moderation on the forums, email [email protected] if you have questions or comments. Thanks, Hango
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:20:00 - [4095] Please email [email protected] to find out why, moderation will not be discussed on the forums. Thanks, Hango Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:22:00 - [4096] Funny, alot of people claim that the communitys trust in CCP is broken. Alot of people I have spoken to don't distrust CCP, I have in fact not spoken to a single friend or foe in the game that claimed anything even close. So how some of you guys can claim to speak both for me and alot of my friends, that's just beyond me. Anyone who claims that they know what the "community" wants or thinks shouldn't be even taken seriously or be assumed to have a hidden agenda (lobbying). I trust CCP alot more than I trust most other gaming companies. And I sure as "ginnungagap" trust CCP more than some slandering goons. Goonswarm needs to act on these "bad elements" and act NOW before their credability is hurt beyond repair. CCP need to ensure that any CCP-Player contacts are maintained on a strictly professional level (there are several ways to do this wich I won't discuss in here). And the rest of us in the community need to back down a bit. If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:24:00 - [4097] Edited by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy on 28/05/2007 21:23:27 hmm funney because most of the peopel i have talked to have said they are on the verge of cancelation, myself included. This is yet another thing to put them over the top. I have sent an email to the mod, no response. Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:24:00 - [4098] oooo, to late, I already copied page 158 before you deleted it
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:25:00 - [4099] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: MehTheTrader so your saying its okay that devs cheat?? do you not understand that cheating makes a game worthless. There is a test server, so cut the bs. No it's most obviously not ok. However there's been one proven instance of a cheating dev in 4 years of Eve. Now, just for a minute assume that on average 50 devs have been playing Eve for the last four years. Also just assume that the game knowledge they assembled that way allowed them to stop even one major regular player exploit before it got exploited, or allowed them to make one major gameplay mechanic just 10% more attractive. Then what does that add up to ? you want to give the devs the ability to cheat if they desire, because we trust them. Sorry they will cheat and already have if given the oppurtunity. Originally by: MehTheTrader If bob played with honor in game, and did not use bugs/scam/bump **** out of pos. Then i might believe, but frankly your alliance has no integrity, srry. And for all I know you made up all that crap. How would you know that are you a dev?
CaptainGordon Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:27:00 - [4100] Don't troll please. -Hango
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:28:00 - [4101] Originally by: Angelyn oooo, to late, I already copied page 158 before you deleted it I did love that quote about known cheating, I won't put it here though, but it's definately going in my scrap book
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:28:00 - [4102] Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Edited by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy on 28/05/2007 21:23:27 hmm funney because most of the peopel i have talked to have said they are on the verge of cancelation, myself included. This is yet another thing to put them over the top. I have sent an email to the mod, no response. Wait a tic... I'll hold the door for you
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:30:00 - [4103] Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Rod Blaine, your own 'brothers' if you will have admitted towards favoritism. Now BOB damage controll is trying to make it sound ok, but its not. There have been proven cheats, bob has been shown to have unfarily recieved t2 bpos, that they held onto for 6 months. God knows how many t2 ships I fought that bob was flying that came from these bpos! and what happens, just a slap on the wrist. Many people have been banned from game for far less. Again. Yes t2 bpo's were given to bob members. You suppose whoever received them knew they were ill-gotten ? Seems you do, since you consider it cheating by the bob member or corp in question... The bpo's were removed at the same time people learned they were unfairly gotten. How do you suppose we should have returned them earlier ? Hire MJ fox's Delorean and go back in time ? You guys are a stuck record. Is this all you've got to base this idiocy on ? [center] Old blog
DoctorGonzo Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:30:00 - [4104] I've said it earlier in this thread (page 142) and I'll say it again now. If there has been instances of Developers helping BoB then it needs finding and fixing, however if there is no evidence to back the accusations up then the BoB leadership and player base need to be publicly cleared of any wrong doing.
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:32:00 - [4105] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Rod Blaine, your own 'brothers' if you will have admitted towards favoritism. Now BOB damage controll is trying to make it sound ok, but its not. There have been proven cheats, bob has been shown to have unfarily recieved t2 bpos, that they held onto for 6 months. God knows how many t2 ships I fought that bob was flying that came from these bpos! and what happens, just a slap on the wrist. Many people have been banned from game for far less. Again. Yes t2 bpo's were given to bob members. You suppose whoever received them knew they were ill-gotten ? Seems you do, since you consider it cheating by the bob member or corp in question... The bpo's were removed at the same time people learned they were unfairly gotten. How do you suppose we should have returned them earlier ? Hire MJ fox's Delorean and go back in time ? You guys are a stuck record. Is this all you've got to base this idiocy on ? your lying, it is impossible that a alliance member would not tell your leaders. After a year it has to slip on ts. Your leaders knew, and if they say they didnt they are lying.

hango Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:32:00 - [4106] Once more a reminder guys, please do not discuss moderation on the forums. Tempers are running high which results in quite a bit of flaming, and this thread is moving rather quickly, so it may take some time before we get to certain posts. That doesn't mean that we're overlooking infractions on purpose. If you feel that we have missed something or that we have made a mistake, please don't post on the forums. Instead, send an email to [email protected]. Once you have done that please don't go back to the forums five minutes later and post about a lack of response. We get a lot of emails, and while we will read every single one of them it may take a little while until we've gone through them all. Please also remember that we need to sleep and eat and do non-eve-related things now and then, so not every moderator is available 24 hours a day. Thank you for your cooperation. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:33:00 - [4107] Originally by: Angelyn oooo, to late, I already copied page 158 before you deleted it Eerh, you do know that you can find any deleted or modded post on the forum mirror over at eve-search right ? No need to copy anything. And CCP know it damn well, they don't delete it to shut you up, they delete it because you're breaking their forum rules. If they wanted you shut up, you'd ahve been IP banned 150 pages ago. [center] Old blog
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:34:00 - [4108] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Rod Blaine, your own 'brothers' if you will have admitted towards favoritism. Now BOB damage controll is trying to make it sound ok, but its not. There have been proven cheats, bob has been shown to have unfarily recieved t2 bpos, that they held onto for 6 months. God knows how many t2 ships I fought that bob was flying that came from these bpos! and what happens, just a slap on the wrist. Many people have been banned from game for far less. Again. Yes t2 bpo's were given to bob members. You suppose whoever received them knew they were ill-gotten ? Seems you do, since you consider it cheating by the bob member or corp in question... The bpo's were removed at the same time people learned they were unfairly gotten. How do you suppose we should have returned them earlier ? Hire MJ fox's Delorean and go back in time ? You guys are a stuck record. Is this all you've got to base this idiocy on ? Being such good friends with the developers Im betting quite a few knew who T20 was and thus should have raised more then one eyebrow when getting such nice BPO's.. The hole was dug, everybody thought it was deep enough so nobody did anything about anything and then when it all gets dug up its first proof or STFU and then Oh, we didnt know.. What the hell do you people talk about on MSN? The weather? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:41:00 - [4109] Why wasnt the cheating ccp employ fired for giving bob t2 bpos? Why was the reporter fired literally instantiously becuase your player "Orange Species" had a complaint about a bumb, which is unconfirmed and also un proven to have been malicoius? Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:41:00 - [4110] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Rod Blaine, your own 'brothers' if you will have admitted towards favoritism. Now BOB damage controll is trying to make it sound ok, but its not. There have been proven cheats, bob has been shown to have unfarily recieved t2 bpos, that they held onto for 6 months. God knows how many t2 ships I fought that bob was flying that came from these bpos! and what happens, just a slap on the wrist. Many people have been banned from game for far less. Again. Yes t2 bpo's were given to bob members. You suppose whoever received them knew they were ill-gotten ? Seems you do, since you consider it cheating by the bob member or corp in question... The bpo's were removed at the same time people learned they were unfairly gotten. How do you suppose we should have returned them earlier ? Hire MJ fox's Delorean and go back in time ? You guys are a stuck record. Is this all you've got to base this idiocy on ? your lying, it is impossible that a alliance member would not tell your leaders. After a year it has to slip on ts. Your leaders knew, and if they say they didnt they are lying. Stuck record ? How is it impossible for a cehating dev to not inform the guys he gives his bpo's to when he has been find out to be a dev and is forced to remove his character as per usual CCP policy ? The fact that the bpo's were cheated only came out those six months later. You imagine he'd tell his buddies that he cheated ? Yes, clearly impossible that he told noone. Oh wait, no its not. anyone else get any sense out of that, translator please? I still believe the leaders knew about this, one year is a long time . BoB has shown they will use bugs, and devs to kick a isd member from his job. BoB leders arent so honorable, i do believe they knew he cheated, and kept it a secret.
DoctorGonzo Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:41:00 - [4111] Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Rod Blaine, your own 'brothers' if you will have admitted towards favoritism. Now BOB damage controll is trying to make it sound ok, but its not. There have been proven cheats, bob has been shown to have unfarily recieved t2 bpos, that they held onto for 6 months. God knows how many t2 ships I fought that bob was flying that came from these bpos! and what happens, just a slap on the wrist. Many people have been banned from game for far less. Again. Yes t2 bpo's were given to bob members. You suppose whoever received them knew they were ill-gotten ? Seems you do, since you consider it cheating by the bob member or corp in question... The bpo's were removed at the same time people learned they were unfairly gotten. How do you suppose we should have returned them earlier ? Hire MJ fox's Delorean and go back in time ? You guys are a stuck record. Is this all you've got to base this idiocy on ? your lying, it is impossible that a alliance member would not tell your leaders. After a year it has to slip on ts. Your leaders knew, and if they say they didnt they are lying. I'm sorry but you're wrong. I know you won't believe anything I type here, but I'm going to waste my time by doing it anyway. Galavet and Blacklight had to be talked out of cancelling their accounts when T20 admitted his wrong doing - we all thought we were whiter than white. I definitely thought we were clean, I spoke regularly to Blacklight about how it would be fine when we're proved right - we weren't, it made all of us feel sick. So please get over your witch hunt - we didn't know.
Changed	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:41:00 - [4112] Originally by: Rod Blaine This whole list of issues is now down to one single issue: CCP allows people that help them in the function of volunteer, dev or GM to retain contacts with the freinds they made while they played the game in previous years, or even before that. While I can see how this might make some people uneasy, especially when they feel wronged or perceive all kinds of injustices going on ingame, it is not something that is going to change. Are you saying this as a BOB member telling the CCP how to run their business or are you actually capable of speaking for CCP?
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:42:00 - [4113] Originally by: Thargat Funny, alot of people claim that the communitys trust in CCP is broken. Alot of people I have spoken to don't distrust CCP, I have in fact not spoken to a single friend or foe in the game that claimed anything even close. So how some of you guys can claim to speak both for me and alot of my friends, that's just beyond me. Anyone who claims that they know what the "community" wants or thinks shouldn't be even taken seriously or be assumed to have a hidden agenda (lobbying). I trust CCP alot more than I trust most other gaming companies. And I sure as "ginnungagap" trust CCP more than some slandering goons. Goonswarm needs to act on these "bad elements" and act NOW before their credability is hurt beyond repair. CCP need to ensure that any CCP-Player contacts are maintained on a strictly professional level (there are several ways to do this wich I won't discuss in here). And the rest of us in the community need to back down a bit. When this all first broke out I posted about it on my alliance forums with links and all that to the letter and other web sites. I would say the response was about 50/50 between people who don't trust CCP and the people who don't believe a word the Goons are saying. So it is a pretty even spread between those who believe CCP and trust them and those who do not. Not that I am saying a 50% trust ratio is anything that CCP should be proud of in anyway, but that is how it broke down in our alliance of 700+ people.
XFreedomX	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:43:00 - [4114] Originally by: hango Once more a reminder guys, please do not discuss moderation on the forums. Tempers are running high which results in quite a bit of flaming, and this thread is moving rather quickly, so it may take some time before we get to certain posts. That doesn't mean that we're overlooking infractions on purpose. If you feel that we have missed something or that we have made a mistake, please don't post on the forums. Instead, send an email to [email protected]. Once you have done that please don't go back to the forums five minutes later and post about a lack of response. We get a lot of emails, and while we will read every single one of them it may take a little while until we've gone through them all. Please also remember that we need to sleep and eat and do non-eve-related things now and then, so not every moderator is available 24 hours a day. Thank you for your cooperation. I read this post before you removed it and I disagree with its removal. All it stated was Forum Moderator such as yourself can see the account name when you edit and that it can be used as an advantage for spie detection.
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:43:00 - [4115] Originally by: Shadow Elk A alliance getting a special line to the CCP-cave for petitions and private chats not a scandal? Its a scandal on a massive scale. It basically puts every accusation from the past into a whole new type of shadow. Its no longer about gms or devs scouting ahead of fleets, now its raw data that might have been fed to fleets. Shiptypes, numbers in sorrounding systems, anything can have been fed through MSN and any kind of request can have been made through MSN.. BoBsters have allready confirmed that they used MSN to press petitions around the paying player petition line. Its then not a very long shot to belive they used it to gain other advantages. The T20 matter was never settled. There was a hole dugg, everything concerning that matter was thrown into that hole, Kugu dug it up and displayed it to the world. The illgotten BPO's were removed and nothing more happened. People get banned for using fraud curier missions for god sake! First of all you'r making assumptions about something that you nor me knows very little (in fact nothing) about. We know nothing except for a few BoB posts referring to them having friends that work at CCP, we do not of the nature of that friendship or how those kind of friendships are actually "handled" by CCP. Secondly, is a cheating/misbehaving ISD reporter a matter that should even be petitioned? There are several oppinions of this and your claims are rather hasty. "Its then not a very long shot to belive they used it to gain other advantages." Again, assumptions. And assumptions are dangerous since the "facts" are kinda thin. "The T20 matter was never settled. There was a hole dugg, everything concerning that matter was thrown into that hole, Kugu dug it up and displayed it to the world." Again we know NOTHING about this. The source (Kugutsumen) is he trustworthy? What's his motives? Who is he and what makes his information more "belivable" than any other (after all, if a man/company can be judged by his actions, then Kugus oppinion and so called facts are not even fit for a fictionstory). I'm not saying you'r all wrong or don't have rights to expression your oppinion. Just think about the manner in wich you do so and on what you base your accusations. If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:44:00 - [4116] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Rod Blaine, your own 'brothers' if you will have admitted towards favoritism. Now BOB damage controll is trying to make it sound ok, but its not. There have been proven cheats, bob has been shown to have unfarily recieved t2 bpos, that they held onto for 6 months. God knows how many t2 ships I fought that bob was flying that came from these bpos! and what happens, just a slap on the wrist. Many people have been banned from game for far less. Again. Yes t2 bpo's were given to bob members. You suppose whoever received them knew they were ill-gotten ? Seems you do, since you consider it cheating by the bob member or corp in question... The bpo's were removed at the same time people learned they were unfairly gotten. How do you suppose we should have returned them earlier ? Hire MJ fox's Delorean and go back in time ? You guys are a stuck record. Is this all you've got to base this idiocy on ? your lying, it is impossible that a alliance member would not tell your leaders. After a year it has to slip on ts. Your leaders knew, and if they say they didnt they are lying. Stuck record ? How is it impossible for a cehating dev to not inform the guys he gives his bpo's to when he has been find out to be a dev and is forced to remove his character as per usual CCP policy ? The fact that the bpo's were cheated only came out those six months later. You imagine he'd tell his buddies that he cheated ? Yes, clearly impossible that he told noone. Oh wait, no its not. And the record will remain stuck until all the cards are on the table, face up. You have direct lines to CCP. A CCP employee gets found out and has to leave and poof, some T2 bpo's appear. It's very belivable, even probable that you were given information about this. Friends dont keep friends in the dark. Especially when everybodies arses are on the line. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:45:00 - [4117] Originally by: Mister Spanky The original complaint from GS concerned a number of issues, one of which was about BoB. CCP have in some part addressed all of the issues except the one about BoB, and now BoB members are claiming that their replies vindicate BoB and prove that GS were just making it all up. Can someone explain to me how that works, please? We're not claiming CCP has investigated everything. We're just claiming that there's nothing wrong with msn contacts per-se. Abused contacts are wrong. Or at least that's what I am claiming, wouldn't know about the rest of the 1000 people in BoB. GS didn't make anything up. They just went overboard with the three issues already (mostly) resolved. About two shipslengths overboard actually. What we have here is mostly a useless discussion about the semantics GS and co use here. Things like posting the 'fact' that BoB cheat for example, when there is no such fact at all. Or things like lists of issues that aren't actual issues at hand at all. Or nicely embellished stories going back to half a year ago when we had the t20 scandal. You know, the usual **** when people with lacking self-control are let out. And you wonder why we behave arrogantly towards them ? [center] Old blog
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:47:00 - [4118] Originally by: Changed Originally by: Rod Blaine This whole list of issues is now down to one single issue: CCP allows people that help them in the function of volunteer, dev or GM to retain contacts with the freinds they made while they played the game in previous years, or even before that. While I can see how this might make some people uneasy, especially when they feel wronged or perceive all kinds of injustices going on ingame, it is not something that is going to change. Are you saying this as a BOB member telling the CCP how to run their business or are you actually capable of speaking for CCP? I'm saying that was their decisino last time this cropped up. Reaching much ? [center] Old blog
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:47:00 - [4119] Originally by: DoctorGonzo Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Rod Blaine, your own 'brothers' if you will have admitted towards favoritism. Now BOB damage controll is trying to make it sound ok, but its not. There have been proven cheats, bob has been shown to have unfarily recieved t2 bpos, that they held onto for 6 months. God knows how many t2 ships I fought that bob was flying that came from these bpos! and what happens, just a slap on the wrist. Many people have been banned from game for far less. Again. Yes t2 bpo's were given to bob members. You suppose whoever received them knew they were ill-gotten ? Seems you do, since you consider it cheating by the bob member or corp in question... The bpo's were removed at the same time people learned they were unfairly gotten. How do you suppose we should have returned them earlier ? Hire MJ fox's Delorean and go back in time ? You guys are a stuck record. Is this all you've got to base this idiocy on ? your lying, it is impossible that a alliance member would not tell your leaders. After a year it has to slip on ts. Your leaders knew, and if they say they didnt they are lying. I'm sorry but you're wrong. I know you won't believe anything I type here, but I'm going to waste my time by doing it anyway. Galavet and Blacklight had to be talked out of cancelling their accounts when T20 admitted his wrong doing - we all thought we were whiter than white. I definitely thought we were clean, I spoke regularly to Blacklight about how it would be fine when we're proved right - we weren't, it made all of us feel sick. So please get over your witch hunt - we didn't know. Im srry bob is not fair play, they use the pos exploit, not exploit anymore apparently, wonder why. They have admitted to chatting on msn to kick that isd guy apprently. So why trust BoB when they play with no honor?? Why give devs the right to cheat, because we trust them? If you are honestly against cheating why do you want devs to be part of the actual game? there is a test server to "test".
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:52:00 - [4120] Originally by: Thargat Originally by: Shadow Elk A alliance getting a special line to the CCP-cave for petitions and private chats not a scandal? Its a scandal on a massive scale. It basically puts every accusation from the past into a whole new type of shadow. Its no longer about gms or devs scouting ahead of fleets, now its raw data that might have been fed to fleets. Shiptypes, numbers in sorrounding systems, anything can have been fed through MSN and any kind of request can have been made through MSN.. BoBsters have allready confirmed that they used MSN to press petitions around the paying player petition line. Its then not a very long shot to belive they used it to gain other advantages. The T20 matter was never settled. There was a hole dugg, everything concerning that matter was thrown into that hole, Kugu dug it up and displayed it to the world. The illgotten BPO's were removed and nothing more happened. People get banned for using fraud curier missions for god sake! First of all you'r making assumptions about something that you nor me knows very little (in fact nothing) about. We know nothing except for a few BoB posts referring to them having friends that work at CCP, we do not of the nature of that friendship or how those kind of friendships are actually "handled" by CCP. Secondly, is a cheating/misbehaving ISD reporter a matter that should even be petitioned? There are several oppinions of this and your claims are rather hasty. "Its then not a very long shot to belive they used it to gain other advantages." Again, assumptions. And assumptions are dangerous since the "facts" are kinda thin. "The T20 matter was never settled. There was a hole dugg, everything concerning that matter was thrown into that hole, Kugu dug it up and displayed it to the world." Again we know NOTHING about this. The source (Kugutsumen) is he trustworthy? What's his motives? Who is he and what makes his information more "belivable" than any other (after all, if a man/company can be judged by his actions, then Kugus oppinion and so called facts are not even fit for a fictionstory). I'm not saying you'r all wrong or don't have rights to expression your oppinion. Just think about the manner in wich you do so and on what you base your accusations. Actually Im not making assumtions. BoB highups have allready confirmed the nature of their direct lines to CCP. Other BoB members have confirmed that these lines have been used to pass the normal petition lines us regular mortals has to use. The ISD has been kicked so that pretty much sums up how CCP have been handling these MSN contacts. They take them very serious. It is not much of an assumption if their MSN line allready has been abused to think that it has been abused befor. Id say the Proof or STFU-ball is now over at the BoB/CCP corner. Kugu's information was valid and proofed by ccp, as the BPO's was FINALLY removed and a slap on the fingers was issued on T20. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
DoctorGonzo Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:52:00 - [4121] Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: DoctorGonzo Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Rod Blaine, your own 'brothers' if you will have admitted towards favoritism. Now BOB damage controll is trying to make it sound ok, but its not. There have been proven cheats, bob has been shown to have unfarily recieved t2 bpos, that they held onto for 6 months. God knows how many t2 ships I fought that bob was flying that came from these bpos! and what happens, just a slap on the wrist. Many people have been banned from game for far less. Again. Yes t2 bpo's were given to bob members. You suppose whoever received them knew they were ill-gotten ? Seems you do, since you consider it cheating by the bob member or corp in question... The bpo's were removed at the same time people learned they were unfairly gotten. How do you suppose we should have returned them earlier ? Hire MJ fox's Delorean and go back in time ? You guys are a stuck record. Is this all you've got to base this idiocy on ? your lying, it is impossible that a alliance member would not tell your leaders. After a year it has to slip on ts. Your leaders knew, and if they say they didnt they are lying. I'm sorry but you're wrong. I know you won't believe anything I type here, but I'm going to waste my time by doing it anyway. Galavet and Blacklight had to be talked out of cancelling their accounts when T20 admitted his wrong doing - we all thought we were whiter than white. I definitely thought we were clean, I spoke regularly to Blacklight about how it would be fine when we're proved right - we weren't, it made all of us feel sick. So please get over your witch hunt - we didn't know. Im srry bob is not fair play, they use the pos exploit, not exploit anymore apparently, wonder why. They have admitted to chatting on msn to kick that isd guy apprently. So why trust BoB when they play with no honor?? Why give devs the right to cheat, because we trust them? If you are honestly against cheating why do you want devs to be part of the actual game? there is a test server to "test". Please look at all my previous posts on this subject and you'll see what I'm for an against. You maybe surprised.
Fivo Asia	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:53:00 - [4122] Originally by: Sigmorhair Edited by: Sigmorhair on 27/05/2007 01:35:50 Actually he said they were friends and had a special relationship built up over time and were entitled to it and the benefits that came from it. Learn to read. entitled to it and the benefits that came from it Methinks this is the actual problem we keep seeing here. One customer base is entitled to special consideration, selling ISK, BPO's, insider information into market changes, etc. The rest of us are not apparently.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:57:00 - [4123] Originally by: MehTheTrader Im srry bob is not fair play, they use the pos exploit, not exploit anymore apparently, wonder why. They have admitted to chatting on msn to kick that isd guy apprently. So why trust BoB when they play with no honor?? Why give devs the right to cheat, because we trust them? If you are honestly against cheating why do you want devs to be part of the actual game? there is a test server to "test". Can't you just shut up if you can not even a most basic fact right ? POS exploit ? You mean POS bowling, the thing we refrained from doing because we assumed and subsequently got told (by petition) that it was a exploit untill dear old enemy Evil Thug from AAA was kind enough to inform the world that he had been told via petition it wasn't ? Oj jeez, let's wonder why it stopped being an exploit. Or not... The msn thing is under investigation. My opinion is clear, not going to repeat it again. Devs playing the game and us trusting them to do it right ? Yes, by all means, including all the devs in D2, AAA, RA, GS, Razor, Smash, wherever they are. It's fine by me even tho t20 did hurt the trust I have in CCP. Because the "test" server is really no alternative. There's no population, nothing there is player driven, on TQ everything is. Sisi si nice for testing clear mechanics, like contracts for example. But it's useless for testing server load, or getting inspiration on mechanics or feature changes. TQ is the place to be for that. Anyways, i'm out, i'll be back at about page 214 tomorrow night. [center] Old blog
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:59:00 - [4124] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: MehTheTrader Im srry bob is not fair play, they use the pos exploit, not exploit anymore apparently, wonder why. They have admitted to chatting on msn to kick that isd guy apprently. So why trust BoB when they play with no honor?? Why give devs the right to cheat, because we trust them? If you are honestly against cheating why do you want devs to be part of the actual game? there is a test server to "test". Can't you just shut up if you can not even a most basic fact right ? POS exploit ? You mean POS bowling, the thing we refrained from doing because we assumed and subsequently got told (by petition) that it was a exploit untill dear old enemy Evil Thug from AAA was kind enough to inform the world that he had been told via petition it wasn't ? Oj jeez, let's wonder why it stopped being an exploit. Or not... The msn thing is under investigation. My opinion is clear, not going to repeat it again. Devs playing the game and us trusting them to do it right ? Yes, by all means, including all the devs in D2, AAA, RA, GS, Razor, Smash, wherever they are. It's fine by me even tho t20 did hurt the trust I have in CCP. Because the "test" server is really no alternative. There's no population, nothing there is player driven, on TQ everything is. Sisi si nice for testing clear mechanics, like contracts for example. But it's useless for testing server load, or getting inspiration on mechanics or feature changes. TQ is the place to be for that. Anyways, i'm out, i'll be back at about page 214 tomorrow night. How on earth do you know the MSN thing is under investigation, nothing has been said about it O_o Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Changed	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:59:00 - [4125] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Changed Originally by: Rod Blaine This whole list of issues is now down to one single issue: CCP allows people that help them in the function of volunteer, dev or GM to retain contacts with the freinds they made while they played the game in previous years, or even before that. While I can see how this might make some people uneasy, especially when they feel wronged or perceive all kinds of injustices going on ingame, it is not something that is going to change. Are you saying this as a BOB member telling the CCP how to run their business or are you actually capable of speaking for CCP? I'm saying that was their decisino last time this cropped up. Reaching much ? Not reaching, its just that reading your statements on how CCP should run their business seems quite damn arrogant at this time when we are facing probably hundreds, if not more unsubscriptions over a period of a few days now.
Camilo Cienfuegos Caldari EP0CH	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:02:00 - [4126] Let's get some things straight please: 1) ISD Members are volunteers. They are only paid in kind for their work, and so "firing" one is hardly the end of the world, whereas t20 does this for a living. His actions way back when may have been stupid at best, but let's be honest; do you really think depriving a man of his livelihood is the solution, especially after he came clean to the community? 2) The test servers are a completely different environment. It's a different cluster, a different client and a different server, and as such one could easily produce different results trying the same things between Tranquility, Singularity and Chaos - and that's even if they patch the test server back to the same software revision as used on TQ! 3) This particular incident arose on a holiday weekend, when I'm sure CCP were on a skeleton staff. It's only Monday now (and still technically a holiday!) so give them a break - we've been updated all weekend on this, and as the t20 affair CCP are willing to take the hit to their reputation in the name of honesty and integrity. Give it a break - What more can we ask of them than what Arkanor has done, which is to grab the torches and pitchforks and rampage through the CCP offices on a holiday weekend?
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:04:00 - [4127] Just because someone else does it, does not mean you have to do it as well. You guys used this exploit before it was ruled.
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:08:00 - [4128] Just take devs out of game is the only solution I see to cheating.
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:11:00 - [4129] Originally by: Shadow Elk Actually Im not making assumtions. BoB highups have allready confirmed the nature of their direct lines to CCP. Other BoB members have confirmed that these lines have been used to pass the normal petition lines us regular mortals has to use. The ISD has been kicked so that pretty much sums up how CCP have been handling these MSN contacts. They take them very serious. It is not much of an assumption if their MSN line allready has been abused to think that it has been abused befor. Id say the Proof or STFU-ball is now over at the BoB/CCP corner. Kugu's information was valid and proofed by ccp, as the BPO's was FINALLY removed and a slap on the fingers was issued on T20. You need to forgive me for not quoting your entire post (but this thread is long enough as it is). Let me assume some things of my own. A little story: Some really old and experienced EvE players have developed certain connections to the developers of the game. They have developers on MSN and talk to these on matters regarding both personal and in-game issues. The Developers are professional about it and don't let personal contacts influence their work. A volunteer (wich haven't even signed the contract he's required to read, sign and resend) is reported by one of these players for misusing his status and powers. The developer then proceeds to look into the matter, taking safe before unsafe and ordering the ISD volunteer to halt his current actions. After discussing the matter with his fellow developers it's later decided (after discovering several previous misconducts on the record of the voluteer in question) to sack the ISD person (after all he hasn't even signed his contract). The former voluteer (appearently someone who cannot be trusted fully) gets ***ed and decide to trashtalk the ones which he feels have offended him. The Devs (still being professional about it) does not see any problem with the event (after all, why should they, a trustworty person helped them to eliminate a potential "cheater" from the game). If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.*
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:11:00 - [4130] Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 28/05/2007 22:03:50 Let's get some things straight please: 1) ISD Members are volunteers. They are only paid in kind for their work, and so "firing" one is hardly the end of the world, whereas t20 does this for a living. His actions way back when may have been stupid at best, but let's be honest; do you really think depriving a man of his livelihood is the solution, especially after he came clean to the community? If you do, I pity you - and any and all who have to associate with you in the real world. 2) The test servers are a completely different environment. It's a different cluster, a different client and a different server, and as such one could easily produce different results trying the same things between Tranquility, Singularity and Chaos - and that's even if they patch the test server back to the same software revision as used on TQ! 3) This particular incident arose on a holiday weekend, when I'm sure CCP were on a skeleton staff. It's only Monday now (and still technically a holiday!) so give them a break - we've been updated all weekend on this, and as the t20 affair CCP are willing to take the hit to their reputation in the name of honesty and integrity. Give it a break - What more can we ask of them than what Arkanor has done, which is to grab the torches and pitchforks and rampage through the CCP offices on a holiday weekend? Giving out secret information and unfair advantages sure is enough to get someone fired. I know this is a game but last time I checked I payed to play with real money. He put the entire trust in CCP at risk and CCP consecvently fumbled, big time. And it being a holiday? WTF overtime? Call in everybody avalible and needed to handle the situation. The silence heard is... Shovels being redied to bury this tree meters under the ground. Nothing else.. They are doing jack **e about the MSN scandal or else it would have been mentioned by now. Originally by:** Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:13:00 - [4131] LOL, your not depriving the man of his lively hood, your firing him for in apporpiate actions...... You ever notice how enron ceo went to jail... or martha stewart...? Corruption needs to be dealt with SEVERLY otherwise yoursetting a precedent that its acceptable. Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
Mystikos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:17:00 - [4132] Originally by: Thargat A little story: Some really old and experienced EvE players have developed certain connections to the developers of the game. They have developers on MSN and talk to these on matters regarding both personal and in-game issues. The Developers are professional about it and don't let personal contacts influence their work. A volunteer (wich haven't even signed the contract he's required to read, sign and resend) is reported by one of these players for misusing his status and powers. The developer then proceeds to look into the matter, taking safe before unsafe and ordering the ISD volunteer to halt his current actions. After discussing the matter with his fellow developers it's later decided (after discovering several previous misconducts on the record of the voluteer in question) to sack the ISD person (after all he hasn't even signed his contract). The former voluteer (appearently someone who cannot be trusted fully) gets ****ed and decide to trashtalk the ones which he feels have offended him. The Devs (still being professional about it) does not see any problem with the event (after all, why should they, a trustworty person helped them to eliminate a potential "cheater" from the game). That's a nice story. What does it have to do with anything going on here?
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:19:00 - [4133] Originally by: Thargat You need to forgive me for not quoting your entire post (but this thread is long enough as it is). Let me assume some things of my own. A little story: Some really old and experienced EvE players have developed certain connections to the developers of the game. They have developers on MSN and talk to these on matters regarding both personal and in-game issues. The Developers are professional about it and don't let personal contacts influence their work. A volunteer (wich haven't even signed the contract he's required to read, sign and resend) is reported by one of these players for misusing his status and powers. The developer then proceeds to look into the matter, taking safe before unsafe and ordering the ISD volunteer to halt his current actions. After discussing the matter with his fellow developers it's later decided (after discovering several previous misconducts on the record of the voluteer in question) to sack the ISD person (after all he hasn't even signed his contract). The former voluteer (appearently someone who cannot be trusted fully) gets **ed and decide to trashtalk the ones which he feels have offended him. The Devs (still being professional about it) does not see any problem with the event (after all, why should they, a trustworty person helped them to eliminate a potential "cheater" from the game). That is quite a story. Did or did not bob use their MSN channel to pass petition lines? It is not interesting if the ISD had not signed the right papers or not. Did or did not BoB use their MSN channel to get their will through, past the petition line? And does this cast a little shadow of doubt about the rest of their communications with the developers? "They have developers on MSN and talk to these on matters regarding both personal and in-game issues. The Developers are professional about it and don't let personal contacts influence their work." Allready, there, if they talk about in-game issues and thus are able to affect the developers in their favor and thus the balance of the game is crushed. The developers were not professional about it since they did not wait for a petition to work its way through the line but went straight from MSN to firing the ISD. Originally by:** Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Camilo Cienfuegos Caldari EP0CH	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:23:00 - [4134] Quote: They are doing jack ****e about the MSN scandal or else it would have been mentioned by now. Is it a "scandal" befriending the tech support guy at your work? Is it showing "favouritism" when you call him up to tell him there's a system problem on his personal phone because you know he's more inclined to answer that at 3am than the callout phone? You're completely neglecting the human equation! Besides - I'm sure you've all kicked off more than enough of a stink already that it will be touched upon. Stop getting your knickers in a twist about it...
Thargat Caldari S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:31:00 - [4135] Edited by: Thargat on 28/05/2007 22:40:36 Originally by: Shadow Elk Originally by: Thargat You need to forgive me for not quoting your entire post (but this thread is long enough as it is). Let me assume some things of my own. A little story: Some really old and experienced EvE players have developed certain connections to the developers of the game. They have developers on MSN and talk to these on matters regarding both personal and in-game issues. The Developers are professional about it and don't let personal contacts influence their work. A volunteer (wich haven't even signed the contract he's required to read, sign and resend) is reported by one of these players for misusing his status and powers. The developer then proceeds to look into the matter, taking safe before unsafe and ordering the ISD volunteer to halt his current actions. After discussing the matter with his fellow developers it's later decided (after discovering several previous misconducts on the record of the voluteer in question) to sack the ISD person (after all he hasn't even signed his contract). The former voluteer (appearently someone who cannot be trusted fully) gets ***ed and decide to trashtalk the ones which he feels have offended him. The Devs (still being professional about it) does not see any problem with the event (after all, why should they, a trustworty person helped them to eliminate a potential "cheater" from the game). That is quite a story. Did or did not bob use their MSN channel to pass petition lines? It is not interesting if the ISD had not signed the right papers or not. Did or did not BoB use their MSN channel to get their will through, past the petition line? And does this cast a little shadow of doubt about the rest of their communications with the developers? "They have developers on MSN and talk to these on matters regarding both personal and in-game issues. The Developers are professional about it and don't let personal contacts influence their work." Allready, there, if they talk about in-game issues and thus are able to affect the developers in their favor and thus the balance of the game is crushed. The developers were not professional about it since they did not wait for a petition to work its way through the line but went straight from MSN to firing the ISD. I've never claimed that it's right or just. For all we know there could be tons of these so called "friendships" in alot of the major alliances and corps in EvE. Some people apparently does not trust the CCP developers to be professional enough in their client contacts to find this accepteble. Companies wich have close ties to the players usually end up to be the most successful (look at CS for an example). As long as the CCP employees have internal policies (wich we know nothing about, neither pro or con) helping them maintain a unbiased and professional attitude to the players, then I (personally) don't see any problem with this. Edit: corrected spelling and removed some unnessecary stuff. If you don't like what I say, just ignore it, or admit I got to you.*
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:38:00 - [4136] Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos Quote: They are doing jack **e about the MSN scandal or else it would have been mentioned by now. Is it a "scandal" befriending the tech support guy at your work? Is it showing "favouritism" when you call him up to tell him there's a system problem on his personal phone because you know he's more inclined to answer that at 3am than the callout phone? You're completely neglecting the human equation! Besides - I'm sure you've all kicked off more than enough of a stink already that it will be touched upon. Stop getting your knickers in a twist about it... I reread you statement again and all I can say is that there should not exist such a personal phone when this kind of competition going on. If they can have that kind of personal phone number then so should everybody, in the name of fair game. The same game we all pay the same amount to play. Originally by:** Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:41:00 - [4137] Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 28/05/2007 11:17:10 BoB guys, please answer just one question, true or false: Having a petitioned answered faster than it normally would can present you with an advantage? That specific question has been answered, repeatedly. But by all means, keep digging, after all, its all you have left of you witch hunt. So sad.... Never mind that you all, in your own word, will always have any victory you ever get contaminated by the known fact that you get help IN GAME from CCP.
Nazdarovie Minmatar Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:43:00 - [4138] T20 Don't troll please. -Hango Don't use your signature to troll. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:44:00 - [4139] Originally by: Thargat I've never claimed that it's right or just. For all we know there could be tons of these so called "friendships" in alot of the major alliances and corps in EvE. Some people apparently does not trust the CCP developers to be professional enough in their client contacts to find this accepteble. Companies wich have close ties to the developers usually end up to be the most successful (look at CS for an example). As long as the CCP employees have internal policies (wich we know nothing about, neither pro or con) helping them maintain a unbiased and professional attitude to the players, then I (personally) don't see any problem with this. As for BoB, I don't respect or tust them more than any other entity or player in this game. The only person in BoB wich I've encountered before is SirMolle (from HW and Guidestone) and he's so far still trustworthy. I can't even begin to belive the claims that he of all people would endorse cheating. But they have allready shown that they cannot handle this kind of contact to the players by letting BoB slip through the petition system through MSN. And their internal policies where pretty clear when T20 got cought. "If we catch you, we'll try and hide it for as long as we can but if "they" catch you, well give you a slap on the fingers and say Baaad yooou!" Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:48:00 - [4140] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 28/05/2007 11:17:10 BoB guys, please answer just one question, true or false: Having a petitioned answered faster than it normally would can present you with an advantage? That specific question has been answered, repeatedly. But by all means, keep digging, after all, its all you have left of you witch hunt. So sad.... Never mind that you all, in your own word, will always have any victory you ever get contaminated by the known fact that you get help IN GAME from CCP. Quit squerming.. All that is left? Cheating though MSN has been confessed. Now how can we as a community ever belive that anything you accomplished is worth more then the chatlogs MSN keeps?(if you tell MSN to save chatlogs) Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Madphly	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:50:00 - [4141] As I see it, cheating is a part of human nature. Percentage wise it may not be prevalent in everyone, but with a large mass of people such as this one, the percentage works out to find it's way into the system. The game is very idealogical in how people play it and expose themselves to the community, and can often be correlative with how one presents themselves in the real world. I'm not saying someone who cheats in eve is going to rob a bank, or a griefer in eve is going to go buy rental car insurance and start having wrecks with people, but it's quite possible that within the givin mass, chaos will ensue. You just can't control a system so large, and when something such as this happens, why make such a big deal about it? It'd be so easy to compare this to a real world example, that it'd be obvious that some form of regulation needs to be created. Otherwise if there is any question in people's minds about nefarious acts that are out of their control, people -will- become upset and want answers. The devs need to be in there monitoring things and seeing how it works, otherwise they'll be blind to our plethora of problems and probably wouldn't give a flop about fixing anything. All that said, I think this is a matter of damage control, or a reprimand if you will, following the implementation of some sort of regulation. Maybe have the dev tools reserved and announce the usage to the public in the form of some sort of publicly available list of uses of the tools, that way people can check themselves and if there is ever any question of cheating involved, the information is available to the masses so that no-one can question the evidence. Just a few thoughts as I spend my Monday afternoon drinking beer and reading forums/webdesigning. P.S. Try to keep a positive outlook on things. This isn't the end of the world or the game for anybody. This crap happens in the real world on a regular basis, and that's why we make up regulations and reprimand people for their actions. (I personally don't think anyone needs to be reprimanded here, just a stricter eye put in place). And this is a game people, I don't see why some take it so extremely seriously. Do you really expect everything to work in your favor and nothing to ever be put in place by someone else to hinder your prosperity? It happens, that's all I got to say.
Hachun K'ar	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:53:00 - [4142] Would be nice to have a reply from BoD hehe CEO SirMolle... is there one in this thread?
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:55:00 - [4143] Originally by: Hachun K'ar Would be nice to have a reply from BoD hehe CEO SirMolle... is there one in this thread? BoB is only opening the gates for their top propaganda members and those are currently busy loosing their temper. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
sarcasmotron	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:56:00 - [4144] Slate weighs in on the issue
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:57:00 - [4145] For the record, in all seriousness, as long as you cling to the butchered remains of you sad little witch hunt, despirately trying to horse whip a fraction of a little more mileage out of it, I'll keep reminding you that your sad little witch hunt is a FAILURE. but by all means, keep tyring. Only sad part is that as much as I like dancing around the remains of your poor dead witch hunt, its not the way I prefer to play. Something I posted on the BoB forums: --------------------------------------------- Might not be healthy gaming, but I just REALLY dislike goons. I remember playing Mankind long ago, and a long running rivalry between my guild (The @ Alliance), and one of our main enemies (Mordor). While there were days they ****ed me off, I regularly stated I respected the way Mordor gave straight up fights, and put effort into making sure its members fought a straight game. Today Mordor members are corp mates in BNC/BNC.E (Lungo, Gothmog, Fiber Blade, etc...) I know I enjoyed having quality opponents there, and I know in this game, the few times someone has caught me running a hot gauntlet, I've generally sent them a congrats note telling them that I usually dont die, and they did well to get me (no joke either). I usually get an equally upbeat note in return. But Goons just make my skin crawl. ============================================ But on a positive note, even if the positive relationship I, and plenty of others, have had with a variety of enemies in the past (even when we lost. Mordor BEAT @ in the end), does not seem possible in this war due to the witch hunting, at least we can have a lot of fun ruining everything you ever try to accomplish in 0.0. (and it is fun). Have a nice day
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:02:00 - [4146] Originally by: Dianabolic No, he didn't. I admitted to speaking to my FRIENDS on MSN. These are people that were in RKK BEFORE they were employed at CCP. At NO point have we ever used those forms of communication to further a petition or other agenda that should not be done through in-game means. Ever. Don't put words in to my mouth, if you wish to quote me then by all means do so, fully. You don't talk about EVE related topic with CCP "friends" over MSN, ever, right?
Mister Spanky Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:04:00 - [4147] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Mister Spanky The original complaint from GS concerned a number of issues, one of which was about BoB. CCP have in some part addressed all of the issues except the one about BoB, and now BoB members are claiming that their replies vindicate BoB and prove that GS were just making it all up. Can someone explain to me how that works, please? We're not claiming CCP has investigated everything. We're just claiming that there's nothing wrong with msn contacts per-se. Abused contacts are wrong. Or at least that's what I am claiming, wouldn't know about the rest of the 1000 people in BoB. GS didn't make anything up. They just went overboard with the three issues already (mostly) resolved. About two shipslengths overboard actually. What we have here is mostly a useless discussion about the semantics GS and co use here. Things like posting the 'fact' that BoB cheat for example, when there is no such fact at all. Or things like lists of issues that aren't actual issues at hand at all. Or nicely embellished stories going back to half a year ago when we had the t20 scandal. You know, the usual **** when people with lacking self-control are let out. And you wonder why we behave arrogantly towards them ? Thanks for your reasonable and considered response. I understand your position and sympathize to a certain extent as exactly the same thing is done to GoonSwarm on a daily basis, usually by your alliance mates. I have to disagree about your MSN position though. Quite frankly nobody should be able to talk to a Dev outside the appropriate channels and no other games company I know of would ever allow it to happen. It's such a blatantly obvious conflict of interests that I'm staggered that you don't seem able to see that, especially since Dianabolic specifically stated that he and BoB deserved "the benefits it brings." Even with your current stance surely you must realize that even if you guys did absolutely nothing wrong and the Dev appearing in local to fire an ISD volunteer only forty seconds after Orange Species tells everyone that he's calling CCP on MSN has the [i]appearance of improper contact, even if that improper contact never happened. If so, then you must also accept that all such contacts should [i]cease immediately so as not to raise any further doubts and suspicions and to protect the reputation of CCP as well as BoB. ---------------------------------------------------
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:06:00 - [4148] Edited by: Shadow Elk on 28/05/2007 23:06:24 Nobody is clinging to smoldering remaings of any witch hunt. MSN relations have been confirmed by your own leaders. MSN abuse have been confirmed by yet more BoB members. The other issiues have been dismissed by CCP, who are by far a major part in the allegations. Nothing has been settled, the little information that has been published reeks and the MSN part has yet to be even touched by CCP wich brings me to belive that they realised that they can not fabrikate evidence that nothing unfair has been going on, since your memebers allready pointed out that it has, or are coming up with a major piece of circus of a answere or simply are hoping itll go away. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Hachun K'ar	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:07:00 - [4149] I'll post again.. without the trolling, even though CCP have gone overtime on.. yeah you know.. has there been any reply from Sir Molle? Don't you think it would be appropriate for a reply to be posted?
Rayvan Gallente Dirty Deeds Corp.	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:09:00 - [4150] Just looking at some of the things ive read here but it seems to me some ppl have missed have missed a very big coincidence here.... DS1 was in ASCN when they got steam rolled by BoB and there were cries of cheating,spying,offlining PoS, and lest not forget TS infiltration!!! Is it coincidence that now all of a sudden another war in which BoB is winning and here come the allegations of cheating again..... /runs around with hands flailing in the air ZOMG the sky is falling!!!
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:11:00 - [4151] Originally by: Rayvan Just looking at some of the things ive read here but it seems to me some ppl have missed have missed a very big coincidence here.... DS1 was in ASCN when they got steam rolled by BoB and there were cries of cheating,spying,offlining PoS, and lest not forget TS infiltration!!! Is it coincidence that now all of a sudden another war in which BoB is winning and here come the allegations of cheating again..... /runs around with hands flailing in the air ZOMG the sky is falling!!! That there is no smoke without fire? Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:15:00 - [4152] Originally by: Rayvan Just looking at some of the things ive read here but it seems to me some ppl have missed have missed a very big coincidence here.... DS1 was in ASCN when they got steam rolled by BoB and there were cries of cheating,spying,offlining PoS, and lest not forget TS infiltration!!! Is it coincidence that now all of a sudden another war in which BoB is winning and here come the allegations of cheating again..... /runs around with hands flailing in the air ZOMG the sky is falling!!! Hi Sherlock. If you were not too busy running from AAA and whininig about their tactics, you might've had noticed that DS1 actually took offline (by themselves) some towers from VNGJ (and left alliance), thus making lots of us scream at DS1. EDF was the one that had all their towers offlined in 0OY. Probably someone from EDF petitioned (maybe over MSN, who knows ;) he couldn't offline towers, GM came and fixed it, and EDF would never even know about it because guess what - petitions are private, and even if someone petitions corp related stuff, CCP seemingly won't tell CEO or directors who petitioned what. Sweet feature :). Brilliant CCP logic \o/
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:18:00 - [4153] Originally by: Shadow Elk Originally by: Rayvan Just looking at some of the things ive read here but it seems to me some ppl have missed have missed a very big coincidence here.... DS1 was in ASCN when they got steam rolled by BoB and there were cries of cheating,spying,offlining PoS, and lest not forget TS infiltration!!! Is it coincidence that now all of a sudden another war in which BoB is winning and here come the allegations of cheating again..... /runs around with hands flailing in the air ZOMG the sky is falling!!! That there is no smoke without fire? Smoke, but no fire. Good day sir, you lose. __________________________________________
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:19:00 - [4154] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Rayvan Just looking at some of the things ive read here but it seems to me some ppl have missed have missed a very big coincidence here.... DS1 was in ASCN when they got steam rolled by BoB and there were cries of cheating,spying,offlining PoS, and lest not forget TS infiltration!!! Is it coincidence that now all of a sudden another war in which BoB is winning and here come the allegations of cheating again..... /runs around with hands flailing in the air ZOMG the sky is falling!!! Hi Sherlock. If you were not too busy running from AAA and whininig about their tactics, you might've had noticed that DS1 actually took offline (by themselves) some towers from VNGJ (and left alliance), thus making lots of us scream at DS1. EDF was the one that had all their towers offlined in 0OY. Probably someone from EDF petitioned (maybe over MSN, who knows ;) he couldn't offline towers, GM came and fixed it, and EDF would never even know about it because guess what - petitions are private, and even if someone petitions corp related stuff, CCP seemingly won't tell CEO or directors who petitioned what. Sweet feature :). Brilliant CCP logic \o/ Thats the game works. Thats the way the game has word since beta. If you dont like the mechanics of the game, dont play the game. __________________________________________
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:20:00 - [4155] Edited by: Shadow Elk on 28/05/2007 23:20:19 Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Shadow Elk Originally by: Rayvan Just looking at some of the things ive read here but it seems to me some ppl have missed have missed a very big coincidence here.... DS1 was in ASCN when they got steam rolled by BoB and there were cries of cheating,spying,offlining PoS, and lest not forget TS infiltration!!! Is it coincidence that now all of a sudden another war in which BoB is winning and here come the allegations of cheating again..... /runs around with hands flailing in the air ZOMG the sky is falling!!! That there is no smoke without fire? Smoke, but no fire. Good day sir, you lose. Im sorry but there is a huge tire fire here and chances are it has been burning for a very long time. Not even MSN will be able to put it out. Edit: Nor will witty linkage do, it was funny but rather off topic and not really related to the game but then again MSN is neither related to the game so well.. ^-^ Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Changed	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:23:00 - [4156] Originally by: Rayvan DS1 was in ASCN when they got steam rolled by BoB and there were cries of cheating,spying,offlining PoS, and lest not forget TS infiltration!!! So you're saying that implications of blatant cheating keep following BOB around whereever they go? Some of you BOB guys have said you do not condone cheating. How about you start kicking those members off your alliance who clearly have stated they DO cheat and are PROUD of the fact. That might clear up your public image a bit.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:23:00 - [4157] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Rayvan Just looking at some of the things ive read here but it seems to me some ppl have missed have missed a very big coincidence here.... DS1 was in ASCN when they got steam rolled by BoB and there were cries of cheating,spying,offlining PoS, and lest not forget TS infiltration!!! Is it coincidence that now all of a sudden another war in which BoB is winning and here come the allegations of cheating again..... /runs around with hands flailing in the air ZOMG the sky is falling!!! Hi Sherlock. If you were not too busy running from AAA and whininig about their tactics, you might've had noticed that DS1 actually took offline (by themselves) some towers from VNGJ (and left alliance), thus making lots of us scream at DS1. EDF was the one that had all their towers offlined in 0OY. Probably someone from EDF petitioned (maybe over MSN, who knows ;) he couldn't offline towers, GM came and fixed it, and EDF would never even know about it because guess what - petitions are private, and even if someone petitions corp related stuff, CCP seemingly won't tell CEO or directors who petitioned what. Sweet feature :). Brilliant CCP logic \o/ Thats the game works. Thats the way the game has word since beta. If you dont like the mechanics of the game, dont play the game. If the mecanics of the game worked there wouldnt be 160+ pages saying othervise ^-^ Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:29:00 - [4158] Page 160 \o/ >>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
Obsidian Reborn	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:30:00 - [4159] Originally by: DoctorGonzo Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Rod Blaine, your own 'brothers' if you will have admitted towards favoritism. Now BOB damage controll is trying to make it sound ok, but its not. There have been proven cheats, bob has been shown to have unfarily recieved t2 bpos, that they held onto for 6 months. God knows how many t2 ships I fought that bob was flying that came from these bpos! and what happens, just a slap on the wrist. Many people have been banned from game for far less. Again. Yes t2 bpo's were given to bob members. You suppose whoever received them knew they were ill-gotten ? Seems you do, since you consider it cheating by the bob member or corp in question... The bpo's were removed at the same time people learned they were unfairly gotten. How do you suppose we should have returned them earlier ? Hire MJ fox's Delorean and go back in time ? You guys are a stuck record. Is this all you've got to base this idiocy on ? your lying, it is impossible that a alliance member would not tell your leaders. After a year it has to slip on ts. Your leaders knew, and if they say they didnt they are lying. I'm sorry but you're wrong. I know you won't believe anything I type here, but I'm going to waste my time by doing it anyway. Galavet and Blacklight had to be talked out of cancelling their accounts when T20 admitted his wrong doing - we all thought we were whiter than white. I definitely thought we were clean, I spoke regularly to Blacklight about how it would be fine when we're proved right - we weren't, it made all of us feel sick. So please get over your witch hunt - we didn't know. You know there are medical terms for what t20 did. They are poor self image and a illogical sense of entitlement. And it is very possible that he did not tell his corp and alliance mates and did it to puff up his own sense of self importance. t20 was punished when everything was origionally discovered and to come around again and punish him again is known as double jeopardy. It is possible that some devs might not have the ethical character to know when to say "sorry take that to the petitions" or "you know better than that, take it thru the proper channel" but that is for CCP to straighten out. Check the boards they have posted some resultes of their inquiry: event rigging: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=527491 Allegations of Misconduct: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=527435 You know if they responded too fast you would say that Wrangler and Arkanon didnt do a proper investigation. If they take the time to do it right you say they acted too slowly. It is a crappy job to investigate your own co-workers so lets give them a little peace and let them do their job. Ive said it befoe and Ill say it again. Good luck Arkanon you really need it this time. Obsidian
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:33:00 - [4160] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Rayvan Just looking at some of the things ive read here but it seems to me some ppl have missed have missed a very big coincidence here.... DS1 was in ASCN when they got steam rolled by BoB and there were cries of cheating,spying,offlining PoS, and lest not forget TS infiltration!!! Is it coincidence that now all of a sudden another war in which BoB is winning and here come the allegations of cheating again..... /runs around with hands flailing in the air ZOMG the sky is falling!!! Hi Sherlock. If you were not too busy running from AAA and whininig about their tactics, you might've had noticed that DS1 actually took offline (by themselves) some towers from VNGJ (and left alliance), thus making lots of us scream at DS1. EDF was the one that had all their towers offlined in 0OY. Probably someone from EDF petitioned (maybe over MSN, who knows ;) he couldn't offline towers, GM came and fixed it, and EDF would never even know about it because guess what - petitions are private, and even if someone petitions corp related stuff, CCP seemingly won't tell CEO or directors who petitioned what. Sweet feature :). Brilliant CCP logic \o/ Thats the game works. Thats the way the game has word since beta. If you dont like the mechanics of the game, dont play the game. You again Since you seem to know so much about game mechanics, please point me to the place where this game feature is documented? I couldn't find it. Thank you.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:39:00 - [4161] Originally by: Obsidian Reborn Originally by: DoctorGonzo Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Rod Blaine, your own 'brothers' if you will have admitted towards favoritism. Now BOB damage controll is trying to make it sound ok, but its not. There have been proven cheats, bob has been shown to have unfarily recieved t2 bpos, that they held onto for 6 months. God knows how many t2 ships I fought that bob was flying that came from these bpos! and what happens, just a slap on the wrist. Many people have been banned from game for far less. Again. Yes t2 bpo's were given to bob members. You suppose whoever received them knew they were ill-gotten ? Seems you do, since you consider it cheating by the bob member or corp in question... The bpo's were removed at the same time people learned they were unfairly gotten. How do you suppose we should have returned them earlier ? Hire MJ fox's Delorean and go back in time ? You guys are a stuck record. Is this all you've got to base this idiocy on ? your lying, it is impossible that a alliance member would not tell your leaders. After a year it has to slip on ts. Your leaders knew, and if they say they didnt they are lying. I'm sorry but you're wrong. I know you won't believe anything I type here, but I'm going to waste my time by doing it anyway. Galavet and Blacklight had to be talked out of cancelling their accounts when T20 admitted his wrong doing - we all thought we were whiter than white. I definitely thought we were clean, I spoke regularly to Blacklight about how it would be fine when we're proved right - we weren't, it made all of us feel sick. So please get over your witch hunt - we didn't know. You know there are medical terms for what t20 did. They are poor self image and a illogical sense of entitlement. And it is very possible that he did not tell his corp and alliance mates and did it to puff up his own sense of self importance. t20 was punished when everything was origionally discovered and to come around again and punish him again is known as double jeopardy. It is possible that some devs might not have the ethical character to know when to say "sorry take that to the petitions" or "you know better than that, take it thru the proper channel" but that is for CCP to straighten out. Check the boards they have posted some resultes of their inquiry: event rigging: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=527491 Allegations of Misconduct: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=527435 You know if they responded too fast you would say that Wrangler and Arkanon didnt do a proper investigation. If they take the time to do it right you say they acted too slowly. It is a crappy job to investigate your own co-workers so lets give them a little peace and let them do their job. Ive said it befoe and Ill say it again. Good luck Arkanon you really need it this time. Obsidian Actually they have taken their time to comeup with "We hear nothing, we see nothing and we say nothing.". Kind of like when they removed the smokeing gun that was the BPO's in T20's case but let the one holding the gun go scotch free(or hiding the gun for that matter). Yes he had to say godbye to his dear pals(waaa waaa, I had said goodbye to a whole lot of moneys and have yet to even seen a T2 BPO.). I dont care if they were friends, these are professionals(alleged)and should not have made friends that they would later put their livelyhood at risk for. This is exactly why developers should not have in game/out of game relations with paying costumers. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:50:00 - [4162] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Dianabolic No, he didn't. I admitted to speaking to my FRIENDS on MSN. These are people that were in RKK BEFORE they were employed at CCP. At NO point have we ever used those forms of communication to further a petition or other agenda that should not be done through in-game means. Ever. Don't put words in to my mouth, if you wish to quote me then by all means do so, fully. You don't talk about EVE related topic with CCP "friends" over MSN, ever, right? Of course we do, just as a (sports) referee will speak of (sports) topics with the (sport) players. Does that make them "cheats", too? Of course it doesn't. Muppets. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Hachun K'ar	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:52:00 - [4163] Edited by: Hachun K''ar on 28/05/2007 23:52:03 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Dianabolic No, he didn't. I admitted to speaking to my FRIENDS on MSN. These are people that were in RKK BEFORE they were employed at CCP. At NO point have we ever used those forms of communication to further a petition or other agenda that should not be done through in-game means. Ever. Don't put words in to my mouth, if you wish to quote me then by all means do so, fully. You don't talk about EVE related topic with CCP "friends" over MSN, ever, right? Of course we do, just as a (sports) referee will speak of (sports) topics with the (sport) players. Does that make them "cheats", too? Of course it doesn't. Muppets. Referees have no power... its the bloody people in the FA, dunno what american footy have but I know players aren't friends with people in the FA. But then again.. big teams do make the referees bend decisions in their favour.. I'm sure thats done over a chat "over sports".
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:57:00 - [4164] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Dianabolic No, he didn't. I admitted to speaking to my FRIENDS on MSN. These are people that were in RKK BEFORE they were employed at CCP. At NO point have we ever used those forms of communication to further a petition or other agenda that should not be done through in-game means. Ever. Don't put words in to my mouth, if you wish to quote me then by all means do so, fully. You don't talk about EVE related topic with CCP "friends" over MSN, ever, right? Of course we do, just as a (sports) referee will speak of (sports) topics with the (sport) players. Does that make them "cheats", too? Of course it doesn't. Muppets. All atheletes have the same exact access to referees, that's the difference. When do I get my DEV msn buddy?
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:57:00 - [4165] Originally by: Tananda Vaakaja I've tried searching .. admittedly it's one HECK of a chore.. Has there been an offical "Update" as yet? I've looked thru 30 odd pages and havent' seen anything new that's official yet. Cheers Unless i missed one, 2 of 4 accusation thingies have been cleared up so far and were proven groundless. I have total faith in there work and hope for a speed end to this debacle of propoganda and frothing at the mouth hatred. BoB vs the coalition of family values
Nicolas Tesla	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:01:00 - [4166] Originally by: Jazeki Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ signed signed
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:02:00 - [4167] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Tananda Vaakaja I've tried searching .. admittedly it's one HECK of a chore.. Has there been an offical "Update" as yet? I've looked thru 30 odd pages and havent' seen anything new that's official yet. Cheers Unless i missed one, 2 of 4 accusation thingies have been cleared up so far and were proven groundless. I have total faith in there work and hope for a speed end to this debacle of propoganda and frothing at the mouth hatred. What needs to be cleared up? You've already admitted that you have a direct line of communication with the devs through msn. that's the only issue i've ever cared about. It's clear and in the open.
Alois Hammer Minmatar Hammers Slammers Slammer's Republic	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:03:00 - [4168] i love this.........first they laugh , then when they see its serious then they make exuses , whats next? threats? so this is how EVE works?? funny tho , i thought i was playing a GAME!!! well when someone defrauds me my time and money, hmmm your right , i am gonna complain, and you know what?? its gonna work out just like in RL.....oh wait this is RL beacuse the way this has progressed is FRAUD. im paying for a game that has strict rules of conduct. however , when those rules are bent to accomodate other players for their own benefit, those same rules that should apply to all became null and void. huh. wait, so all we have to prove is that BOB actualy gained in-game money during the course of the T20 bpo time to validate our point.i wonder if you can wipe all of the evidence of those transactions from record. can you??
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:07:00 - [4169] Originally by: Muff Joos What needs to be cleared up? You've already admitted that you have a direct line of communication with the devs through msn. that's the only issue i've ever cared about. It's clear and in the open. Lots of people in lots of corps / alliances have the same. Is it just BoB that you think would use them to "cheat", or are you accusing everyone equally? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Pseudothei GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:07:00 - [4170] Originally by: Dianabolic Of course we do, just as a (sports) referee will speak of (sports) topics with the (sport) players. Does that make them "cheats", too? Of course it doesn't. CCP officials have previously been found lacking in moral clout (BoB's involvement in that incident aswell notwithstanding), so would it be unreasonable to harbour the suspicion of them being biased because of friendship and close MSN ties with people in the EVE universe, and thus made unfit to rule in anything that remotely concerned their FRIENDS? (as you so quaintly put it earlier) Can you at all see how anyone outside of yourself would find such behaviour inappropriate? Also, did you read the professed former-Blizzard employee's post (that has been quoted hundreds of times already), and did you object to its content in any way? If so, how and on what grounds?
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:09:00 - [4171] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Muff Joos What needs to be cleared up? You've already admitted that you have a direct line of communication with the devs through msn. that's the only issue i've ever cared about. It's clear and in the open. Lots of people in lots of corps / alliances have the same. Is it just BoB that you think would use them to "cheat", or are you accusing everyone equally? I think it is wrong and unprofessional in general. But you are deflecting, BoB have admitted to it hence the reason we are talking about BoB.
Alois Hammer Minmatar Hammers Slammers Slammer's Republic	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:11:00 - [4172] Originally by: Pseudothei Originally by: Dianabolic Of course we do, just as a (sports) referee will speak of (sports) topics with the (sport) players. Does that make them "cheats", too? Of course it doesn't. CCP officials have previously been found lacking in moral clout (BoB's involvement in that incident aswell notwithstanding), so would it be unreasonable to harbour the suspicion of them being biased because of friendship and close MSN ties with people in the EVE universe, and thus made unfit to rule in anything that remotely concerned their FRIENDS? (as you so quaintly put it earlier) Can you at all see how anyone outside of yourself would find such behaviour inappropriate? Also, did you read the professed former-Blizzard employee's post (that has been quoted hundreds of times already), and did you object to its content in any way? If so, how and on what grounds? cuz in that one cheating was not ok
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:16:00 - [4173] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Sentinel Eeex You don't talk about EVE related topic with CCP "friends" over MSN, ever, right? Of course we do, just as a (sports) referee will speak of (sports) topics with the (sport) players. Does that make them "cheats", too? Of course it doesn't. Of course it doesn't. But this does explain why us mortals have to get 10 different responses from GMs in regards to questions about game mechanics, and you just need to press a button. No wonder GMs couldn't explain why I was able to be killed inside POS shields many many months ago (December 2006, to be exact), but BoB guys in LOCAL could. So, it all makes sense. BoB<->dev private links are benefitial for all of us. After we get spanked because of bugs, we get to hear about it from BoB immediately. No need to wait 10 days for GMs to find out about that. And try meeting with a (sports) referee, as a (sports) player, in private - and see what happens. Originally by: Dianabolic Muppets. I am not a native English speaker, so I don't fully understand the meaning of 'muppets', but I guess if it makes you feel more important, tougher and better allaround - just go ahead, use it more often. I'm used to big tough internet people. Whatever floats your boat mate.
Krumpit Caldari Madness of Crowds	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:17:00 - [4174] Bullsh** sports analogies are pointless. All analogous reasoning is pointless in this context, don't bother posting them and don't bother pointing out the differences between the analogy and the reality. One question: Does the "/tr to a ship" command actually bump a dread or not? If it does, that's CCP's fault, not the ISD's. If it doesn't, then he didn't bump a dread. So why did he get banned? Was the dread actually bumped, or wasn't it?
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:24:00 - [4175] So once again we have a fake internal investigation to prove that BOB and CCP have never cheated/acted corruptly in anyway...ever..honest... The previous "investigation" proved that. After all...t20 still works for CCP, so he obviously did no wrong... That rug that you are sweeping things under, is beginning to bulge a little in the middle. WTS bucket loads of white wash...
Alois Hammer Minmatar Hammers Slammers Slammer's Republic	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:32:00 - [4176] amazing , just read some of the CCP statements.... "nothing found"....""no reason to belive"......... "no wrongdoing"......... "cleared up" never was in the pesimistic camp but this is making the watergate scandal look like a sunday picnic. i have been doing security in RL and the responses CCP is giving us are called "canned" resonses. you have a response for a specific set of circumstances without actualy giving any information i still havent had not one Q answered why was the dev there?? on whos pettition was he working? why was the follow up query removed? who removed it? why was he not in communication in-game when he was politely aproached?? i have more questions than i am getting answers.......
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:39:00 - [4177] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Muff Joos What needs to be cleared up? You've already admitted that you have a direct line of communication with the devs through msn. that's the only issue i've ever cared about. It's clear and in the open. Lots of people in lots of corps / alliances have the same. Is it just BoB that you think would use them to "cheat", or are you accusing everyone equally? * off topic * Rebellion directly stated that he would not divulge that any dev had told him he was a dev. So Rebellion would not have outted t20 in the t20 incident. I wonder how many other BOB'ers are like that? This isn't really a flame about BOB ... its simply that Rebellion has said that he would not ever admit that any Devs/GM's had confided in him - and the rest of BOB holds to that standard. I don't know one way or the other whether BOB members knew about the t20 incident, though. * on topic * I'm accusing everyone equally - anyone that has contact with CCP Employees about Eve via any mechanism outside the rules of the game is cheating. It just so happens that several BOB admitted to cheating. Liang Originally by: Dianabolic, of BOB, referring to MSN the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge?
Rex Mundus League of Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:40:00 - [4178] Originally by: Nicolas Tesla Originally by: Jazeki Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ signed signed /signed
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:42:00 - [4179] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Dianabolic No, he didn't. I admitted to speaking to my FRIENDS on MSN. These are people that were in RKK BEFORE they were employed at CCP. At NO point have we ever used those forms of communication to further a petition or other agenda that should not be done through in-game means. Ever. Don't put words in to my mouth, if you wish to quote me then by all means do so, fully. You don't talk about EVE related topic with CCP "friends" over MSN, ever, right? Of course we do, just as a (sports) referee will speak of (sports) topics with the (sport) players. Does that make them "cheats", too? Of course it doesn't. Muppets. How does this analogy apply. The referees dont hold secrets, devs do. Referees dont/can't cheat for selfish gain, but devs in this game can. This system ccp has is terrible, it promotes cheating. BoB has shown us how easily you can cheat/bug the system, congrats, now fix it. Get the devs out of the game.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:43:00 - [4180] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Muff Joos What needs to be cleared up? You've already admitted that you have a direct line of communication with the devs through msn. that's the only issue i've ever cared about. It's clear and in the open. Lots of people in lots of corps / alliances have the same. Is it just BoB that you think would use them to "cheat", or are you accusing everyone equally? I like how you play with words all the time Everyone equally, btw, but not that it matters atm, since CCP will never publish full list of how many devs/GMs are in which alliances, or who has contact with who. I guess it might look bad for some (and add way more fuel to fire), so one more reason not to ever publicly state it
Isilldur	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:43:00 - [4181] 160+ pages And um to add something useful well ummm... Down with BoB? That and people took what was written as fact before this invstigation even began, I mean I was ****ed to but till CCP actually admit or find any wrong doing all we have to go on is Goons word =/ SO does the entire community trust Goons more than CCP?
Dowey Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:44:00 - [4182] Originally by: Rex Mundus Originally by: Nicolas Tesla Originally by: Jazeki Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ signed signed /signed Can we please break this link lol, this 1 post takes around 3 mouse rolls to get past..... Star Wars entry on EVE forums ftl Dowey
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:49:00 - [4183] Originally by: Dowey Originally by: Rex Mundus Originally by: Nicolas Tesla Originally by: Jazeki Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ signed signed /signed Can we please break this link lol, this 1 post takes around 3 mouse rolls to get past..... Star Wars entry on EVE forums ftl /signed
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:51:00 - [4184] Originally by: Isilldur 160+ pages And um to add something useful well ummm... Down with BoB? That and people took what was written as fact before this invstigation even began, I mean I was ****ed to but till CCP actually admit or find any wrong doing all we have to go on is Goons word =/ SO does the entire community trust Goons more than CCP? It's no longer Goon's word, BoB has admitted several times in this thread to having a special line of communication with the DEVS that bypasses game mechanics.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:52:00 - [4185] Originally by: Isilldur SO does the entire community trust Goons more than CCP? It'll be tough for "entire community" to answer you, though. You might want to rephrase the question (unless someone makes a char named 'entire community' now :). I don't have a reason to trust Goons. I am not paying them a dime, have no connections with them, nor do I care about them. I pay to CCP, and I'd like to be able to trust them. Which I don't, at the moment.
Peri Helion Amarr Omega Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:52:00 - [4186] Edited by: Peri Helion on 29/05/2007 00:52:26 Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: Dowey Originally by: Rex Mundus Originally by: Nicolas Tesla Originally by: Jazeki Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ signed signed /signed Can we please break this link lol, this 1 post takes around 3 mouse rolls to get past..... Star Wars entry on EVE forums ftl /signed /signed
Igualmentedos	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:53:00 - [4187] Originally by: Peri Helion Originally by: Nicolas Tesla Originally by: Jazeki Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ signed signed /signed signed
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:54:00 - [4188] You know, if you really want to quit EVE, you don't have to make a big stink just because you're sour graping. I have a long memory of altercations we've had with CCP. I could bring them up, but it's digging up old stories from EVE so long ago that the game was different. Besides, you guys have already, via kugutsumen, hacked our forums, so you can read about those things yourselves. You complain when a DEV accesses your POS without your permission even though he's just doing his job. We didn't complain when our ships were blown up when we tried to assassinate Doriam Kor-Azor during his coronation ceremony. The main difference between us and you goons is that we have no expectations from CCP other than this: we pay the EVE monthly fee, and we're allowed to play a game. We don't even expect EVE to be a sandbox that the DEVs would leave alone to sink or swim, we just expect them to keep the game running and as long as it's interesting to us, we would keep playing and paying. What part about none of us not owning anything in EVE don't you understand? Your ships, your POS, your blueprints, belong to CCP. They are under no contractual obligations to let you keep them as you wish. When GM Arknanon started his work, he made a statement that most of you probably didn't understand fully. He said that CCP would no longer be permitted to act as the "gods of EVE". This is because prior to that, the general consensus was that anyone CCP was the law in EVE, and thus anyone in CCP could do anything they wanted to EVE. You'd have found this out if you had tried to understand the existing culture in EVE instead of imposing your own ethic into it by brute force of numbers. To some extent this is still true, because CCP still dictates what kind of game EVE will be. But what is clear now is that devs who play EVE during their off hours in order to see what it's like, can no longer instantly create things to experience firsthand how they impact a player. You all attribute odious motivations to what t20 did, but fail to acknowledge that maybe he just wanted to see what EVE looked like from the eyes of its most successful group of players. Perhaps understand if our success was helped or hampered by the systems put into EVE, and then design EVE better. Now you complain about the ability of some of our membership to make friends, and keep friends with people thay have been interacting with in things like fanfests for years. Since when have CCP been forbidden to be human by your paying of the monthly fee? Since when did they have to ask your permission before talking to their friends, or who they choose to make friends with? Since when did Sharkbait have to ask for a corporation's permission before doing his job? And you have the gall to call us arrogant? Have any of you even worked in customer service before? I used to. Although I don't like when customers call me up directly, some of them know me personally that they do call me up to report issues. Do I tell them "I'm sorry, I can't fix this because you didn't create a ticket, even though the problem you're reporting is happening right now"? No, that's stupid. We all WISH we had direct CCP access. But the fact is that they don't know or like most of us. The petition system is there to give everyone a line to CCP, so that those that wouldn't have any means to contact CCP otherwise now have a means to. It's not there to enforce equal delays on everyone, which you seem to be demanding that it should do, along with demanding that CCP employees drop their friends. If CCP changes any of it's policies, it's not because they're inherently wrong. It's because they are not defined in legalese such that people like you misunderstand them, and end up making a big stink in your efforts of getting CCP attention via media blackmail. I know several of you will twist this in order to troll. Go ahead.
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:00:00 - [4189] Originally by: Angelyn a person who opennly admits they are using lines that nobody else has is openly admitting to..... What is it folks, say it with me C H E A T I N G /signed
Borasao	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:02:00 - [4190] Are they going to add the MSN addresses of the various developers in the stickied threads above entitled "DevFinder"? Our corp has had a petition open about a bug that seems to have eaten a couple of our BPOs for several days now with no responses. Too bad we don't have an MSN address or two so we could get sub-one-minute response times to our questions/problems.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:05:00 - [4191] Originally by: Alois Hammer Originally by: Igualmentedos Originally by: Peri Helion Originally by: Nicolas Tesla Originally by: Jazeki Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ signed signed /signed signed signed You missed the bit about the head of Aurora/ISD being in bob... You missed the bit about them using "unplanned roleplaying events" to harm bobs enemys... but. /signed
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:06:00 - [4192] Originally by: Angelyn a person who opennly admits they are using lines that nobody else has is openly admitting to..... What is it folks, say it with me C H E A T I N G they therefore have no leg to stand on, this being the case, CCP they have given you only one choice. Those who are members of BoB and have spoken up here admitting to such fraternization should be imediately banned. The members of bob should be gone over with a fine tooth comb and any member having shown gains from such interactions should either be banned or temporarily suspended. BoB itself with their own words have given you no other real choices in this. not only that but the members of CCP found to have been involved with such activity should I believe be not fired, but suspended without pay for a period of time which will drive home the results of such interaction in a way which will have an impact. This would solve the problem outright and take care of the entire debical. Their could be other answers, however the one I give may well be one of the best involved. if however CCP sees clear to recompense the rest of the community for their past actions this would greatly help to improve things as well. I am not demnding this, nor do I believe that CCP will do such a thing, but I do humbly make the suggestion. I have no links to CCP nor would I wish any. I have however been a victim of BoB manipulation of the game in their favor. I don't care if I get reimbursed for it though as long as the problem is taken care of and everything is taken care of, period. That sort of depends on you allegation that no-one else has access to the same method of communication. How many other people need to have access before it is fair? Also, why sould only BoB members be scrutinised? Surely your fine tooth comb has to be used on everyone, not just a select few? Giving BoB access to a fine tooth comb that not everyone has access to is CHEATING .. or something. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:08:00 - [4193] So, if one of CCP's employee's son wanted to play EVE, you'd tell the kid: IN ORDER TO PLAY EVE, YOU MUST DISOWN YOUR FATHER, YOU CHEATER. CCP's running a game, not running a government. There are no stakes here that matter, because NONE of us actually own ANYTHING in EVE. Not even our accounts. Is this too complicated to understand?
Muff Joos	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:10:00 - [4194] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Angelyn a person who opennly admits they are using lines that nobody else has is openly admitting to..... What is it folks, say it with me C H E A T I N G How many other people need to have access before it is fair? Also, why sould only BoB members be scrutinised? Surely your fine tooth comb has to be used on everyone, not just a select few? Giving BoB access to a fine tooth comb that not everyone has access to is CHEATING .. or something. Everyone playing the game needs to have the access before it is fair. BoB has admitted to it, they need to be scrutinized. When another alliance admits to cheating then they should get the comb, your deflecting again.
Cygnet Lythanea Ninjitsu Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:10:00 - [4195] Pardon me if this seems to be a repete of waht's allready aid, but: I've worked in the past with several MMO dev teams as a tester, back to the original Lineage. And EVE has the worst GM/DEV - Player arraingment imaginable. While GM's do have to hae some in game authority, Devs SHOULD NOT. It is the task of the GM's to deal with ingame bugs and report BACK to the devs, not to have hte devs run wild in game. Further, also brought up: EVEN if a dev does not conciously hand over intel on other players/corps, his knwolege is far and away better then any players. And in a game like EVE where there is NO players guide or manue, that is a HUGE advantage, even if he just mentiones how a certain mathmatical formula to determine npcs spawns works. My 2 isk. Wow: my sig was hijacked! Does that mean I win EVE???
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:11:00 - [4196] who says he has to disown his son, nobody is making that point. What the father CANT do, is hold his son hands, seed him t2 bpos, make servers crash for him, skip other paying customers petition for his son's petitions.... basically he can't favor his son over ALL the other player base. Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:12:00 - [4197] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Angelyn a person who opennly admits they are using lines that nobody else has is openly admitting to..... What is it folks, say it with me C H E A T I N G they therefore have no leg to stand on, this being the case, CCP they have given you only one choice. Those who are members of BoB and have spoken up here admitting to such fraternization should be imediately banned. The members of bob should be gone over with a fine tooth comb and any member having shown gains from such interactions should either be banned or temporarily suspended. BoB itself with their own words have given you no other real choices in this. not only that but the members of CCP found to have been involved with such activity should I believe be not fired, but suspended without pay for a period of time which will drive home the results of such interaction in a way which will have an impact. This would solve the problem outright and take care of the entire debical. Their could be other answers, however the one I give may well be one of the best involved. if however CCP sees clear to recompense the rest of the community for their past actions this would greatly help to improve things as well. I am not demnding this, nor do I believe that CCP will do such a thing, but I do humbly make the suggestion. I have no links to CCP nor would I wish any. I have however been a victim of BoB manipulation of the game in their favor. I don't care if I get reimbursed for it though as long as the problem is taken care of and everything is taken care of, period. That sort of depends on you allegation that no-one else has access to the same method of communication. How many other people need to have access before it is fair? Also, why sould only BoB members be scrutinised? Surely your fine tooth comb has to be used on everyone, not just a select few? Giving BoB access to a fine tooth comb that not everyone has access to is CHEATING .. or something. Avon, please feel free to scrutinise all the other alliances.. look hard.. because sullying their reputations is the only thing that will make bob look decent now. If you find anything on the coalition side feel free to drama bomb us with it. We dont like cheating, not just cheating that is directed at us, but all cheating. Then again... theres only a few groups in eve that have "special" relationships with CCP... so you wont have to look far.
Starfinder Firing Squad Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:13:00 - [4198] After a visit to the K mans site(you know the one we can't link here), I am becoming convinced CCP Arkanon is an empty suit. Either he has no power or his position is a sham to trick us into trusting CCP. If there was any fear of him or his position, we would not be here having this discussion today. CCP employeees would be toeing the line and Bod would not be bragging in local about their msn addressbook.
Borasatar	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:15:00 - [4199] Originally by: Rebellion So, if one of CCP's employee's son wanted to play EVE, you'd tell the kid: IN ORDER TO PLAY EVE, YOU MUST DISOWN YOUR FATHER, YOU CHEATER. CCP's running a game, not running a government. There are no stakes here that matter, because NONE of us actually own ANYTHING in EVE. Not even our accounts. Is this too complicated to understand? You seem to have problems understanding the term "conflict of interest". Here's a wiki link explaining it for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:16:00 - [4200] Edited by: Victor Vision on 29/05/2007 01:17:38 Edited by: Victor Vision on 29/05/2007 01:15:54 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Dianabolic No, he didn't. I admitted to speaking to my FRIENDS on MSN. These are people that were in RKK BEFORE they were employed at CCP. At NO point have we ever used those forms of communication to further a petition or other agenda that should not be done through in-game means. Ever. Don't put words in to my mouth, if you wish to quote me then by all means do so, fully. You don't talk about EVE related topic with CCP "friends" over MSN, ever, right? Of course we do, just as a (sports) referee will speak of (sports) topics with the (sport) players. Does that make them "cheats", too? Of course it doesn't. Muppets. Dianabolic, the referee comparison you made works quite well I think. In sports, if it is known that a referee has many personal friends in team X, he will normaly not be asked to blow the whistle in any game that involves team X. This is to prevent favoritism by the rev towards "his" team, may it be concious or unconcious. It is also to prevent rumors of favoritism, which would be likely to happen if team X where to win in a game where "their" rev was in charge. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Plim Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:20:00 - [4201] Originally by: Muff Joos Originally by: Angelyn a person who opennly admits they are using lines that nobody else has is openly admitting to..... What is it folks, say it with me C H E A T I N G /signed No no! they need friends you see. Thier friends just happen to have an influence over a game they are playing and can afford them special favours. But that's what friends are for right? Influencing the balance of power in an mmorpg? You seeing the logic here right? .... Come back! Seriously, these drugs are good, I can see my house from up here. Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:21:00 - [4202] Originally by: Rebellion So, if one of CCP's employee's son wanted to play EVE, you'd tell the kid: IN ORDER TO PLAY EVE, YOU MUST DISOWN YOUR FATHER, YOU CHEATER. CCP's running a game, not running a government. There are no stakes here that matter, because NONE of us actually own ANYTHING in EVE. Not even our accounts. Is this too complicated to understand? stupid comments ftw. Your analogies are completely off tanget, and make no sense. Do you understand that the system puts forth allows devs to cheat. They should not be given trust. Your saying to trust devs in your quote. I geuss you didnt learn from t20 incident did you. Oh wait he has his job back anyways.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:26:00 - [4203] Uhh... I almost forgot. Hello CCP. Would you be so kind to tell us why is it taking so long to get answers about ISD/MSN issue? As per your own FAQ ( linky ) : "10.5 But havenÆt there been allegations of abuse of power by the volunteers? Allegations, yes, but upon investigation, nearly all of these cases are proven to be false. To those outside ISD, the program is mysterious and the object of frequent misconceptions about what the volunteers can and cannot do. These misconceptions make the volunteers an easy target. We take accusations of abuse of power or other wrongdoing by the volunteers very seriously and investigate each thoroughly. On the rare occasion when a volunteer has broken the rules, he has been swiftly dismissed." Considering ISD reporter was swiftly dismissed, we assume CCP has already detailed report (because it has been already investigated thoroughly), and there is no need to keep details from that report away from us. Thank you.
Plim Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:30:00 - [4204] Originally by: Rebellion So, if one of CCP's employee's son wanted to play EVE, you'd tell the kid: IN ORDER TO PLAY EVE, YOU MUST DISOWN YOUR FATHER, YOU CHEATER. CCP's running a game, not running a government. There are no stakes here that matter, because NONE of us actually own ANYTHING in EVE. Not even our accounts. Is this too complicated to understand? There are stakes that matter. In the real world you see (you might have been there - but maybe not), there is this concept called currency. People earn this thing called currency, then they spend it on various products, or 'commodities'. However when they spend it on something which turns out to be sub standard, or, lets say an mmorpg in which the staff are corrupt, they might feel a bit peeved, because they didn't realise they were paying for that. Is that too complicated to understand? Would you understand these terms: "CCP is selling a product, not running a government." Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:32:00 - [4205] Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy who says he has to disown his son, nobody is making that point. What the father CANT do, is hold his son hands, seed him t2 bpos, make servers crash for him, skip other paying customers petition for his son's petitions.... basically he can't favor his son over ALL the other player base. T20 created BPOs for himself. None of us asked him to create them, or knew he could, or even knew he was a dev. CCP doesn't make servers crash, you might be thinking of the goons, who intentionally bring newbie ships, shuttles and T1 frigates into a system with the full knowledge that no hardware in the world could handle the load. There can be no conflict of interest in a place where there is nothing to gain to begin with. There is no concept of ownership in EVE that extends to the real world. You people take this too seriously because you have difficulties distinguishing where you're playing a game, and where reality is. At any rate, it's clear that the goons have started this brouhaha without intending to see CCP's investigation, as they are now thoroughly poisoning the well. You know, if you don't trust CCP, there's nothing forcing you to keep playing their game.
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:35:00 - [4206] I love the fact that BOB has a total inability to understand that a backchannel to the DEV's is perceived as wrong by a VAST portion of the community. It really shouldnt be that tough a concept. EVE is a competitve game (unlike many/most MMO's) success in EVE largely comes at the destruction of other players. The playing field, quite simply, must either be level, or be perceived as level. If BOB sees nothing at all wrong with its private chat channels to the DEV's and if all the chatter is is bug fixing and general grab assing around, well then id suggest..to help with the perception problem. Invite the heads of all the major alliances to LISTEN in...no chat ability (since as you state the DEV's dont like most of the players)..just the ability to listen to the bugs getting fixed, the game being improved upon by your joint efforts. IF there is nothing to hide-dont hide it....I cant see how BOB wouldnt voluntarily do this. Dont need CCP to require it. You say over and over and over how there is no cheating, no unfair advantage, nothing at all inappropirate about your relationships. Just grant your competitors the ability to listen in...should solve a lot! Were I you..and i cared as much about EVE as all of you BOB posters profess over and over..id certainly be RUSHING to fix this perception issue instead of saying over and over that it doesnt exist.
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:35:00 - [4207] Originally by: Plim Originally by: Rebellion So, if one of CCP's employee's son wanted to play EVE, you'd tell the kid: IN ORDER TO PLAY EVE, YOU MUST DISOWN YOUR FATHER, YOU CHEATER. CCP's running a game, not running a government. There are no stakes here that matter, because NONE of us actually own ANYTHING in EVE. Not even our accounts. Is this too complicated to understand? There are stakes that matter. In the real world you see (you might have been there - but maybe not), there is this concept called currency. People earn this thing called currency, then they spend it on various products, or 'commodities'. However when they spend it on something which turns out to be sub standard, or, lets say an mmorpg in which the staff are corrupt, they might feel a bit peeved, because they didn't realise they were paying for that. Is that too complicated to understand? Would you understand these terms: "CCP is selling a product, not running a government." If you don't like the product, then don't buy it. It's a better and more effective course of action than acting like a drama queen. If you don't like how CCP runs EVE, then create a game like EVE, run it better than CCP, and get all of their customers. Reality is like that.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:38:00 - [4208] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy who says he has to disown his son, nobody is making that point. What the father CANT do, is hold his son hands, seed him t2 bpos, make servers crash for him, skip other paying customers petition for his son's petitions.... basically he can't favor his son over ALL the other player base. T20 created BPOs for himself. None of us asked him to create them, or knew he could, or even knew he was a dev. CCP doesn't make servers crash, you might be thinking of the goons, who intentionally bring newbie ships, shuttles and T1 frigates into a system with the full knowledge that no hardware in the world could handle the load. There can be no conflict of interest in a place where there is nothing to gain to begin with. There is no concept of ownership in EVE that extends to the real world. You people take this too seriously because you have difficulties distinguishing where you're playing a game, and where reality is. At any rate, it's clear that the goons have started this brouhaha without intending to see CCP's investigation, as they are now thoroughly poisoning the well. You know, if you don't trust CCP, there's nothing forcing you to keep playing their game. Actually, your forum snippets provided by the K man show that some of you were well aware that T20 was in bob and some of you knew his specific in game character. Theres lots more fun to be had by all, just wait for it...
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:38:00 - [4209] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy who says he has to disown his son, nobody is making that point. What the father CANT do, is hold his son hands, seed him t2 bpos, make servers crash for him, skip other paying customers petition for his son's petitions.... basically he can't favor his son over ALL the other player base. T20 created BPOs for himself. None of us asked him to create them, or knew he could, or even knew he was a dev. CCP doesn't make servers crash, you might be thinking of the goons, who intentionally bring newbie ships, shuttles and T1 frigates into a system with the full knowledge that no hardware in the world could handle the load. There can be no conflict of interest in a place where there is nothing to gain to begin with. There is no concept of ownership in EVE that extends to the real world. You people take this too seriously because you have difficulties distinguishing where you're playing a game, and where reality is. At any rate, it's clear that the goons have started this brouhaha without intending to see CCP's investigation, as they are now thoroughly poisoning the well. You know, if you don't trust CCP, there's nothing forcing you to keep playing their game. Are you speaking for your alliance. Did your leaders not know about t20?? LOL
ElCholo Minmatar FarCry Inc Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:39:00 - [4210] Originally by: Avon That sort of depends on you allegation that no-one else has access to the same method of communication. How many other people need to have access before it is fair? Also, why sould only BoB members be scrutinised? Surely your fine tooth comb has to be used on everyone, not just a select few? Giving BoB access to a fine tooth comb that not everyone has access to is CHEATING .. or something. Either all have access or none have access, that is fair - anything else isn't fair. Why scrutinize BoB ? BoB shouldnt be blamed for these communications channels - it is the responsibility of the CCP employees to follow all of the rules. Apparently not all of the devs can control themselves and redirect questions / petitions made via msn to the proper channels. Besides .. only certain BoB members have had the audacity to come on these forums and gloat about having such means of communication.
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:39:00 - [4211] Again with the alts. Can't you just post with your mains so that we can be sure we're not talking to just one person using several accounts?
Hachun K'ar	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:39:00 - [4212] Could someone EvE-Mail me the K man website.. thanks ^^
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:40:00 - [4213] Originally by: Rebellion There can be no conflict of interest in a place where there is nothing to gain to begin with. There is no concept of ownership in EVE that extends to the real world. You people take this too seriously because you have difficulties distinguishing where you're playing a game, and where reality is. You really made me laugh mate, thanks Just for fun - who do you think takes this game more seriously (or "too serious") - me or you?
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:42:00 - [4214] Originally by: MehTheTrader Did your leaders not know about t20?? LOL What part about T20 saying he did all that he did alone, do you not understand? Besides the fact that you're yet another alt, the problem with you goons is that you've already made the verdict before understanding the evidence. Nothing CCP says will ever satisfy you because you went into this with the intention of just ruining CCP.
VInanath Diesel Caldari Freedom of Choice	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:42:00 - [4215] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Angelyn a person who opennly admits they are using lines that nobody else has is openly admitting to..... What is it folks, say it with me C H E A T I N G they therefore have no leg to stand on, this being the case, CCP they have given you only one choice. Those who are members of BoB and have spoken up here admitting to such fraternization should be imediately banned. The members of bob should be gone over with a fine tooth comb and any member having shown gains from such interactions should either be banned or temporarily suspended. BoB itself with their own words have given you no other real choices in this. not only that but the members of CCP found to have been involved with such activity should I believe be not fired, but suspended without pay for a period of time which will drive home the results of such interaction in a way which will have an impact. This would solve the problem outright and take care of the entire debical. Their could be other answers, however the one I give may well be one of the best involved. if however CCP sees clear to recompense the rest of the community for their past actions this would greatly help to improve things as well. I am not demnding this, nor do I believe that CCP will do such a thing, but I do humbly make the suggestion. I have no links to CCP nor would I wish any. I have however been a victim of BoB manipulation of the game in their favor. I don't care if I get reimbursed for it though as long as the problem is taken care of and everything is taken care of, period. That sort of depends on you allegation that no-one else has access to the same method of communication. How many other people need to have access before it is fair? Also, why sould only BoB members be scrutinised? Surely your fine tooth comb has to be used on everyone, not just a select few? Giving BoB access to a fine tooth comb that not everyone has access to is CHEATING .. or something. You cannot justify wrong doing by pointing @ ALLEGED wrong doing.
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:43:00 - [4216] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex [Just for fun - who do you think takes this game more seriously (or "too serious") - me or you? It's the ones that spread the allegations all over slashdot without waiting for factual information. You know, the other posters in /. also think you goons are taking this too seriously, and acting too dramatically, demanding government level auditing on a video game.
Hachun K'ar	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:44:00 - [4217] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: MehTheTrader Did your leaders not know about t20?? LOL What part about T20 saying he did all that he did alone, do you not understand? Besides the fact that you're yet another alt, the problem with you goons is that you've already made the verdict before understanding the evidence. Nothing CCP says will ever satisfy you because you went into this with the intention of just ruining CCP. What would be the point in ruining CCP... surely they'd sue them.. that'd be more effective. Its more the fact people want CCP to sort all of this messed up crap once and for all instead of increasing the size of the large bulge under their carpet..
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:48:00 - [4218] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: MehTheTrader Did your leaders not know about t20?? LOL What part about T20 saying he did all that he did alone, do you not understand? Besides the fact that you're yet another alt, the problem with you goons is that you've already made the verdict before understanding the evidence. Nothing CCP says will ever satisfy you because you went into this with the intention of just ruining CCP. Yes t20 said it so it must be true, what kind of proof is that LOL. Ok so t20 was in your alliance for a year and kept the secret of his cheating away from alliance leaders. I do not believe that. He had to slip something to the leaders on ts for sure, there is no way the leaders of bob did not know. I would believe bob if they played fair, but they dont. They do pos bowling, scam, rpthing, sharkbait(not sure if true), and kicking the guy form ISD through MSN. Ok this is why non one trusts bob. BoB alliance has no integrity, and use devs to cheat. Devs need to be taken out of the game, they have abused their position loong enough.
Dowey Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:50:00 - [4219] Quote: You know, if you don't trust CCP, there's nothing forcing you to keep playing their game. hmmm I remember seeing a post saying that CCP wouldn't be where they are without thier player base, so in my opinion it's not thier game, it's both of ours, yes they are the creators, they maintain the game, keep it bug free ect, but WE keep the game running (subscriptions), WE keep the in-game economy running, WE should be able to trust CCP, but with the stuff that's happening now AND in the past, they/people are making it very hard for the majority of people to do exactly that. Dowey
Krumpit Caldari Madness of Crowds	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:52:00 - [4220] Originally by: Rebellion If you don't like the product, then don't buy it. It's a better and more effective course of action than acting like a drama queen. If you don't like how CCP runs EVE, then create a game like EVE, run it better than CCP, and get all of their customers. Reality is like that. Argumentum ad adsurdam. If we don't like Eve, the only option is to not play it. This is simply false. There are several other options, one is, err, to try to improve it. An option which is actively encouraged by the developers. By your logic, you have never found anything you don't like about Eve, since you would have quit by now. You have never sent a petition or ever complained about anything. Because as soon as you find something you don't like, your recommended course of action is to quit. (Or make your own game).
Ronald shootsen	Posted - 2007.05.29 01:58:00 - [4221] Originally by: Rod Blaine Quote: I was pleasantly surprised by the dedication of CCP to provide new content and patches on a frequent basis, and by their overall devotion to just continually making EVE Online a better game on a daily basis How do you think they are able to do this ? How do you think the reputation for an involved company with excellent feedback communications towards their customers was formed ? It is because of the now over a hundred developers working at CCP, and the probably as numerous volunteers involved in the different ISD disciplines, a majority most likely got recruited from the playerbase. There's all kinds of people involved in bringin this game forward. There's traders, industrialists, pvp'ers etc. A regular cross-section of the playerbase, except for the difference that these people are more dedicated then the average player and started doing for example bughunting or event volunteering. This whole list of issues is now down to one single issue: CCP allows people that help them in the function of volunteer, dev or GM to retain contacts with the freinds they made while they played the game in previous years, or even before that. While I can see how this might make some people uneasy, especially when they feel wronged or perceive all kinds of injustices going on ingame, it is not something that is going to change. You could stop every single CCP employee or volunteer to stop playing. But that would just mean that alot of them stop helping CCP, and that Eve suffers as a result. It is also simply impossible and immoral to demand that people that volunteer or are asked by CCP to help them in some form are required to sever all ties with people still playing. I don't see how this can even be an issue tbh. Emotion is playing mean tricks on alot of people in this thread I guess. There's only one question: what can CCP do to introduce checks and balances into the dev/ISD/GM to player relations where it is needed ? All these 150 pages have amoutned to is a public smearing of CCP's name, undeserved as far as can be discerned, and most certainly off the mark in tone and timing. All this "public smearing" as you call it could have been avoided by a proper handling of the T20 incident, that was ACTUALLY something that DID happen. It was proven by a player that was punished severly for publishing it. T20 is still in ccp and as far as I know, Bob members that benefitted from this incident and probaly still do, was never punished in any way. This whole chain of events and the level of information regarding the incident after it was discoverd has created a mistrust that lead to this insane drama... CCP really has to get a LOT better at handling this kind of events and a LOT better at discovering cheating than they are, right now mistrust is rampant. Most of my corpies truely think BOB is lead by developers and GM's and that BOB wealth comes not from hard work, but from illigally aquired T2 BPO's that allow them to pvp and never carebear. Bob Titan pilots being online for 23 hours a day for weeks in a row doesnt help either, it proves that "someone" is protecting them... I have been trying HARD not to fall for this kind of tinfoil thinking, but I have to admit that the last 3 days have made me really sick of it all :/
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:02:00 - [4222] From what Iv'e seen here in this thread I'll say right now, BoB should have a very different name. They are indeed GOONS, the goons however also deserve a different name surprisingly enough. They have shown themselves to be something they are not being credited with. Avatars of Honor, this is because they have shown more honor for the game and the other players then any member of BoB or their entire alliance.
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:23:00 - [4223] Originally by: Xandria Foreman From what Iv'e seen here in this thread I'll say right now, BoB should have a very different name. They are indeed GOONS, the goons however also deserve a different name surprisingly enough. They have shown themselves to be something they are not being credited with. Avatars of Honor, this is because they have shown more honor for the game and the other players then any member of BoB or their entire alliance. roflmao good one goon lover
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:27:00 - [4224] Originally by: raven415 Originally by: Xandria Foreman From what Iv'e seen here in this thread I'll say right now, BoB should have a very different name. They are indeed GOONS, the goons however also deserve a different name surprisingly enough. They have shown themselves to be something they are not being credited with. Avatars of Honor, this is because they have shown more honor for the game and the other players then any member of BoB or their entire alliance. roflmao good one goon lover I'm no goon lover, nor do I care for BoB, however, the actions the goons took did uncover the BoB ugly little secrets by their own little mispoken admissions. I don't like either group, but I despise cheaters even more. When their caught cheating outright then I get even more annoyed. This being the case stfu and stop saying goon lover just because your one of the goons
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:27:00 - [4225] Originally by: Alois Hammer Originally by: Igualmentedos Originally by: Peri Helion Originally by: Nicolas Tesla Originally by: Jazeki Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ signed signed /signed signed signed /signed
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:32:00 - [4226] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 29/05/2007 02:31:45 How goes the witch hunt?? Gee to bad You could always quit Or you could come out and fight bob, and when you lose you can explain it away with "omgbobhaxorcheatsploit". How can you beat an offer like that??? Sorry about your witch hunt
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:39:00 - [4227] Edited by: Angelyn on 29/05/2007 02:38:13 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 29/05/2007 02:31:45 How goes the witch hunt?? Gee to bad You could always quit Or you could come out and fight bob, and when you lose you can explain it away with "omgbobhaxorcheatsploit". How can you beat an offer like that??? Sorry about your witch hunt you do of course know it's posts like this that show just why you have to go don't you?
Reithan Caldari Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:39:00 - [4228] Originally by: Incantare Originally by: Alois Hammer Originally by: Igualmentedos Originally by: Peri Helion Originally by: Nicolas Tesla Originally by: Jazeki Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ signed signed /signed signed signed /signed /signed
Krumpit Caldari Madness of Crowds	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:39:00 - [4229] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 29/05/2007 02:31:45 How goes the witch hunt?? Gee to bad You could always quit Or you could come out and fight bob, and when you lose you can explain it away with "omgbobhaxorcheatsploit". How can you beat an offer like that??? Sorry about your witch hunt Embarrassing. I still don't understand why you think that the only option available to people who don't like cheating is to quit the game (or, as you absurdly suggested, to "make their own game")
Dowey Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:40:00 - [4230] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 29/05/2007 02:31:45 How goes the witch hunt?? Gee to bad You could always quit Or you could come out and fight bob, and when you lose you can explain it away with "omgbobhaxorcheatsploit". How can you beat an offer like that??? Sorry about your witch hunt Grow up imo... Dowey
Alois Hammer Minmatar Hammers Slammers Slammer's Republic	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:43:00 - [4231] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Sentinel Eeex [Just for fun - who do you think takes this game more seriously (or "too serious") - me or you? It's the ones that spread the allegations all over slashdot without waiting for factual information. You know, the other posters in /. also think you goons are taking this too seriously, and acting too dramatically, demanding government level auditing on a video game. naw your right , the government should audit this , its a smaer on iceland and the way it runs businesss , your total inability to comprehend right or wrong is apallling , the way BOB defends their actions is bordeline ****** (and no , not special bus **** , more like ignorant a-hole ******) , the mere fact your head comes out of the hole your corp has themselves dug is absolutely astounding. i would love to know wher does BOB get off telling the entire E-gaming world they are wrong in saying that cheating is the way of gaming.it is not the mere fact you still support this stance smacks of low moral fibre. but then again , maybe this is the way EVE really works , one group has the backing of the gamers while the other the backing of the developers , well if the devs wanna play their game , fine , i want no part in this affair , thers no point in playing if the field is not slanted , but horribly canted towards BOB and their dev-supported buddies. have fun
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:45:00 - [4232] BoB, let's look at it as a game show. If CCP is to survive after looking at your behavior jsut here in this forum they should therefore think the following when it comes to you. BOB, YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK, GOODBYE!!!
Hachun K'ar	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:46:00 - [4233] Originally by: Oliandra Friginia BoB, let's look at it as a game show. If CCP is to survive after looking at your behavior jsut here in this forum they should therefore think the following when it comes to you. BOB, YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK, GOODBYE!!! How about.. BoB... you LOST ME MONEY! You're FIRED!
Okane Man	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:54:00 - [4234] Originally by: Incantare Originally by: Alois Hammer Originally by: Igualmentedos Originally by: Peri Helion Originally by: Nicolas Tesla Originally by: Jazeki Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ signed signed /signed signed signed /signed /signed
Radar Rat SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:56:00 - [4235] I don't believe anything will happen to BoB over this, CCP have already buried most of the allegations with the good old tried and tested "not enough evidence" .. and i imagine after they've finished removing MSN from their computer terminals will probably come on here denying anything happened and close the investigation. Like i said in a previous post, asking members of CCP to conduct a fair investigation is a bit like asking a criminal to act as judge and jury at his own trial.. And notice how the vast majority of the normally vocal BoB (including forum warriors) are silent, who put the gagging order on them, the leadership or CCP, until it all dies down.... I really want to believe CCP but there have been allegations about them asisting alliances for years, and its getting to the point where its impossible to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore... ---------------------------------------------- The early bird may catch the worm, but its the second rat that gets the cheese !!!
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:57:00 - [4236] Originally by: Okane Man Originally by: Incantare Originally by: Alois Hammer Originally by: Igualmentedos Originally by: Peri Helion Originally by: Nicolas Tesla Originally by: Jazeki Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ signed signed /signed signed signed /signed /signed /signed
Reithan Caldari Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:59:00 - [4237] That's just ********. There is no way CCP, or any other gaming company would be able to ban an entire player alliance and stay afloat. EVEN IF 90% of the CEOs and directors in BOB are blantantly and knowingly cheating (big 'if'...I don't beleive it) all the members definitely don't know. I mean, even if they are knowingly cheating, I doubt their leaders are on their forums with a stickied thread that says, "BTW, We cheat at t3h EVEs. It's okay though, we do it for the lulz." And even so, banning people just because they know someone else is cheating and it happens to be in their benefit isn't gonna fly either. This little fubar won't cause thousands of people to quit EVE - maybe a couple hundred...but banned an entire alliance would automatically mean thousands of people were leaving. Then other alliances would quit too, just out of fear and anger, not to mention "friend" alliances that would quit out of sympathy or support. You wanna kill EVE quick and for good? Ban BOB. Ban GS. Bye bye EVE. That being said, banning a few MEMBERS of BOB, or GS or whoever you find out is cheating or adding to the problem would send a message to the rest of said alliances and probably make EVE stronger. Not to mention firing anyone you find to be involved...as well as UNBANNING anyone banned because of this crapstorm. Honestly, if the rumors of people being banned for posting about this prior to the 'threadnought' are true...if the rumors of ISD being banned/fired over MSN convos with devs are true...restoring those people's losses would go a long way to healing your credability.
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:00:00 - [4238] Edited by: MehTheTrader on 29/05/2007 03:00:30 Edited by: MehTheTrader on 29/05/2007 02:59:56 Originally by: Radar Rat I don't believe anything will happen to BoB over this, CCP have already buried most of the allegations with the good old tried and tested "not enough evidence" .. and i imagine after they've finished removing MSN from their computer terminals will probably come on here denying anything happened and close the investigation. Like i said in a previous post, asking members of CCP to conduct a fair investigation is a bit like asking a criminal to act as judge and jury at his own trial.. And notice how the vast majority of the normally vocal BoB (including forum warriors) are silent, who put the gagging order on them, the leadership or CCP, until it all dies down.... I really want to believe CCP but there have been allegations about them asisting alliances for years, and its getting to the point where its impossible to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore... yes bob has tripped up in their lies. They have gone to far in dev misuse. Devs need to be taken out of eve, there is a test server. bob's abuse has gone long enough. If ccp does not take devs out of game, that shows they do not care if people cheat. The system in place allows to devs to cheat. BoB has abused the dev and player relationship, time to stop it, I blame ccp policy more than bob's lack of integrity.
Reithan Caldari Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:07:00 - [4239] Originally by: MehTheTrader Devs need to be taken out of eve, there is a test server. bob's abuse has gone long enough. If ccp does not take devs out of game, that shows they do not care if people cheat. The system in place allows to devs to cheat. BoB has abused the dev and player relationship, time to stop it, I blame ccp policy more than bob's lack of integrity. This will solve nothing. BOB will still have their "DEV Communication Channel" with MSN and they will still have friends in CCP. Wether they're playing on live or not, they'll still be available to help. And really, I've said it before, I've played games where the DEVs & GMs are not allowed to play live before...I'd rather have the corruption, thanks. DEVs and GMs that don't play their own game are as useless as **** on a frog.
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:10:00 - [4240] Actually I said that as a joke more than anything, what I mean is disbanned the BoB alliance and make it taboo, then punish the devs invovled, and ban the BoB members who posted and admitted to cheating then divvy all their loot to the people they cheated
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:12:00 - [4241] Originally by: Reithan Originally by: MehTheTrader Devs need to be taken out of eve, there is a test server. bob's abuse has gone long enough. If ccp does not take devs out of game, that shows they do not care if people cheat. The system in place allows to devs to cheat. BoB has abused the dev and player relationship, time to stop it, I blame ccp policy more than bob's lack of integrity. This will solve nothing. BOB will still have their "DEV Communication Channel" with MSN and they will still have friends in CCP. Wether they're playing on live or not, they'll still be available to help. And really, I've said it before, I've played games where the DEVs & GMs are not allowed to play live before...I'd rather have the corruption, thanks. DEVs and GMs that don't play their own game are as useless as **** on a frog. True, fire all devs affilated with any alliance in game. Past or resent. Only way to get rid of cheating. This is a bit extreme, but only way to prevent cheating. Not going to happen though. CCP doesn;t respect a cheat proof game, they rehired t20, which is very, very odd. Would you not despise someone in you company who cheated your company. The impression I get from ccp is they do not care about cheating.
Eric Black Caldari Tripocalyptic Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:15:00 - [4242] Originally by: Xandria Foreman Originally by: raven415 Originally by: Xandria Foreman From what Iv'e seen here in this thread I'll say right now, BoB should have a very different name. They are indeed GOONS, the goons however also deserve a different name surprisingly enough. They have shown themselves to be something they are not being credited with. Avatars of Honor, this is because they have shown more honor for the game and the other players then any member of BoB or their entire alliance. roflmao good one goon lover I'm no goon lover, nor do I care for BoB, however, the actions the goons took did uncover the BoB ugly little secrets by their own little mispoken admissions. I don't like either group, but I despise cheaters even more. When their caught cheating outright then I get even more annoyed. This being the case stfu and stop saying goon lover just because your one of the goons The man is no lover of Goons, see some other goon posts hes appeared in.
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:30:00 - [4243] Edited by: Xandria Foreman on 29/05/2007 03:30:11 get a load of this, Iceland tax law: ARTICLE 7 Business Profits 1. The business profits of an enterprise of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State unless the enterprise carries on business in the other Contracting State through a permanent establishment situated therein. If the enterprise carries on or has carried on business as aforesaid, the business profits of the enterprise may be taxed in the other State but only so much of them as is attributable to that permanent establishment. oh and CCP does have US offices, oops
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:34:00 - [4244] Originally by: Eric Black Originally by: Xandria Foreman Originally by: raven415 Originally by: Xandria Foreman From what Iv'e seen here in this thread I'll say right now, BoB should have a very different name. They are indeed GOONS, the goons however also deserve a different name surprisingly enough. They have shown themselves to be something they are not being credited with. Avatars of Honor, this is because they have shown more honor for the game and the other players then any member of BoB or their entire alliance. roflmao good one goon lover I'm no goon lover, nor do I care for BoB, however, the actions the goons took did uncover the BoB ugly little secrets by their own little mispoken admissions. I don't like either group, but I despise cheaters even more. When their caught cheating outright then I get even more annoyed. This being the case stfu and stop saying goon lover just because your one of the goons The man is no lover of Goons, see some other goon posts hes appeared in. Of course they quote me, I pay attention and I make sense. I may not like them, and I don't like bob either, I'm mainly neutral, are we to take it that if goonfleet quoted you all the time then you must then be a goon lover by your logic?
ssorion Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:37:00 - [4245] Originally by: MehTheTrader Originally by: Okane Man Originally by: Incantare Originally by: Alois Hammer Originally by: Igualmentedos Originally by: Peri Helion Originally by: Nicolas Tesla Originally by: Jazeki Originally by: Fluffernator Originally by: tres testor Originally by: Bobafeit Originally by: Darkstar BP {...} Everybody loses. CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra ôany publicity is good publicityö is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you wonÆt be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums. You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didnÆt set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didnÆt want your developers and GMÆs to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare. BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and canÆt even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke. That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away. So: A GM in BoB flying a Polaris frigate through an enemy system, is in line with what the game allows, and does not amount to BoB cheating. A Dev in BoB spawning items/BPOÆs, is his problem and his problem alone, does not amount to BoB cheating. A BoB member leading the alliance tournament, does not amount to BoB cheating. Claiming ôBeing sworn to secrecy by CCPö, does not amount to BoB cheating. The list goes on and on. YOU KNOW WHAT, I FULLY AGREE. It will kill CCP, but BoB did not cheat. IÆll paraphrase what some of you said: ôCCP can do what it want, and if CCP wants to allow cheating, tough luck for you. Can I have your stuff, whiner?ö Brilliant smack talk. AND YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. However, it doesnÆt help to counter the rot that permeates Eve, comes to every corp, every alliance. The rot is here and Eve will enter a very dark period. We have not seen the last firestorm, and things can get much much worse before they will get better. That and the fact that the endgame of Eve is now known will turn people away in droves. /signed /signed signed ^^ signed signed /signed signed signed /signed /signed /signed /signed Nice snowball
Eric Black Caldari Tripocalyptic Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:40:00 - [4246] Removing devs and other ccp employees from the game would hurt eve more than this scandal. Having the developers in the game with their own accounts, gm priviliges or otherwise, is a good thing. It helps them to add more content, to fix bugs, to balance things and a whole host of other things because they are in there. This doesnt happen just here in eve but in any large popular game because it helps the game, not hurt it. Sure there should be rules about how far people can go and they should be enforced but dont try to hobble the game, please. A lot of pipl are in here slamming what seems like the entire BoB alliance, get a grip guys, the whole alliance isnt involved in this, your talking about over 2000 player characters, i said pcs cause im sure there are alts in there. Most of those will be just like you, here to play eve and i hope have a good time.
Bi Tor	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:43:00 - [4247] Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy who says he has to disown his son, nobody is making that point. What the father CANT do, is hold his son hands, seed him t2 bpos, make servers crash for him, skip other paying customers petition for his son's petitions.... basically he can't favor his son over ALL the other player base. T20 created BPOs for himself. None of us asked him to create them, or knew he could, or even knew he was a dev. CCP doesn't make servers crash, you might be thinking of the goons, who intentionally bring newbie ships, shuttles and T1 frigates into a system with the full knowledge that no hardware in the world could handle the load. There can be no conflict of interest in a place where there is nothing to gain to begin with. There is no concept of ownership in EVE that extends to the real world. You people take this too seriously because you have difficulties distinguishing where you're playing a game, and where reality is. At any rate, it's clear that the goons have started this brouhaha without intending to see CCP's investigation, as they are now thoroughly poisoning the well. You know, if you don't trust CCP, there's nothing forcing you to keep playing their game. Ok, this is beyond foolish, not to mention off topic, well may the topic is BoB's attempt to deflect from the truth. The question I ask you is, "Would the server have faired any better if they all jumped in, in a mix of T1 Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers?" Probally not. You are peeved because they used sound tacics against you. Face it. Stay on target! Stay on Target! Stay on Topic! Bite Me! Bi`Tor
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:48:00 - [4248] Edited by: MissileRus on 29/05/2007 03:48:57 Bob.. you suck at your defence this is NOT only about you, you were first yes but now you said other alliances have it too. Id like for them to be naimed, not naming them and the "heat" naturaly goes towards you, and only you.. and picking on goonswarm is kinda pointless too, yes they brought it all to light but their not the only ones involved now are they? their not the ones you need to convince, and your hardly convincing anyone by your posts now... theres no point in bob members posting trying to justefice this, it cannot be justefied and it only causes confusion, also it only hurts themselves quite bad trying to justefice something like this now when theres no longer a point to do so.. only CCP can.. im getting very sick of bob posts denying the already obvious and clear, its so sneaky doesnt fit in and/or only defencive mode posts.. dont.. post.. more of those.. if i were a member of bob id wait before posting things and making it worse and worse... just advice and i would have done so if it was any alliance and similar situation.. im on noones side, neither bob nor goons.. but realy this is how it looks like imo! edit: AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP SIGNING THAT THING!!!! --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.29 04:01:00 - [4249] By the wqay guys take another look, I'm quoted by BoB as much or even more then I'm quoted by Goonfleet, oh no I must be a BoBbet!!! seriously now, if you take an even closer look BoB seems to find my posts so threatenning that they go out of the way to make fun of them, while Goonfleet actually takes them seriously and gives them the respect they deserve.
Mister Spanky Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 04:10:00 - [4250] Edited by: Mister Spanky on 29/05/2007 04:12:06 Will the mods who are supposed to be moderating this thread please do something about the idiotic pyramid quoting, please? This is a serious thread covering a serious matter and we don't want it locked for any reason. Forum bans would be issued to any Goon doing a similar thing but I guess warnings will have to do. ---------------------------------------------------
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.29 04:22:00 - [4251] Originally by: Mister Spanky Will the mods who are supposed to be moderating this thread please do something about the idiotic pyramid quoting, please? This is a serious thread covering a serious matter and we don't want it locked for any reason. Forum bans would nice but I guess warnings will have to do. That was before edit. Way to go on asking people banned for showing their support. It wouldn't be bad if the text weren't compressed every time bah. Also I'm sure the mods are gonna ban us all on your suggestion. Oh wait, you're in GS and don't have their MSN, fat chance of that happening .
ssorion Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.05.29 04:28:00 - [4252] Originally by: Mister Spanky Will the mods who are supposed to be moderating this thread please do something about the idiotic pyramid quoting, please? So spamming the forums to the point at which they are getting closed is ok, spamming this very thread with same messages by same players is ok, but signing some wise post is not ? Goonies are mean
Zhukkivah	Posted - 2007.05.29 05:06:00 - [4253] why are you ignoring the Raekhan stuff?
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.29 05:06:00 - [4254] Originally by: ssorion So spamming the forums to the point at which they are getting closed is ok Yes.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 05:15:00 - [4255] Originally by: ssorion Originally by: Mister Spanky Will the mods who are supposed to be moderating this thread please do something about the idiotic pyramid quoting, please? So spamming the forums to the point at which they are getting closed is ok, spamming this very thread with same messages by same players is ok, but signing some wise post is not ? Goonies are mean oh that's bu** and you know it it's a pro-goon post too sign it one at a time
Mister Spanky Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 06:02:00 - [4256] Edited by: Mister Spanky on 29/05/2007 06:01:39 Originally by: Incantare Originally by: Mister Spanky Will the mods who are supposed to be moderating this thread please do something about the idiotic pyramid quoting, please? This is a serious thread covering a serious matter and we don't want it locked for any reason. Forum bans would nice but I guess warnings will have to do. That was before edit. Way to go on asking people banned for showing their support. It wouldn't be bad if the text weren't compressed every time bah. Also I'm sure the mods are gonna ban us all on your suggestion. snip Uncalled for. -Rauth. Pyramid quoting is stupid no matter who does it. If it had been Goons they would all have been banned by now. Seriously. I'm sure everyone appreciates your support but replying to any post with nothing more than /signed is stupid and to do it over and over again is ridiculous. ---------------------------------------------------
Mister Spanky Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 06:11:00 - [4257] Edited by: Mister Spanky on 29/05/2007 06:11:34 Quote: So spamming the forums to the point at which they are getting closed is ok, spamming this very thread with same messages by same players is ok, but signing some wise post is not ? Goonies are mean When your petition has been deleted, (sorry, disappeared without trace), CCP refuse to talk to you about it and delete a reasonable thread asking for an explanation, what else are we supposed to do? Go away quietly like good little Goons? Edit: Sorry about the double post. You guys are slow tonight. ---------------------------------------------------
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.29 06:40:00 - [4258] Darkstar made some excellent points which are worth repeating as to avoid them being lost in a sea of posts. Though I could have quoted him only, fair enough.
Demetrios Atreus	Posted - 2007.05.29 07:22:00 - [4259] Originally by: Rebellion T20 created BPOs for himself. None of us asked him to create them, or knew he could, or even knew he was a dev. This is a damned lie, T20 registered for the BoB forums with his [email protected] e-mail address. Not to mention what K posted from your forums. Nobody knew indeed!
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.29 07:32:00 - [4260] Originally by: Rebellion So, if one of CCP's employee's son wanted to play EVE, you'd tell the kid: IN ORDER TO PLAY EVE, YOU MUST DISOWN YOUR FATHER, YOU CHEATER. CCP's running a game, not running a government. There are no stakes here that matter, because NONE of us actually own ANYTHING in EVE. Not even our accounts. Is this too complicated to understand? Actually, I regularly see product contests, lotteries and such where family of the employees of the company in question are banned from participating. EVE may be a game, it is also a BUSINESS at the same time. Maybe time CCP started to act like that? How would it look if Manchester United had a direct line to the referees and organisers of the Premier League and other soccer teams did not? No problem right, soccer is just a game... signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.29 07:37:00 - [4261] Edited by: Malachon Draco on 29/05/2007 07:36:53 Originally by: Rebellion Originally by: Plim Originally by: Rebellion So, if one of CCP's employee's son wanted to play EVE, you'd tell the kid: IN ORDER TO PLAY EVE, YOU MUST DISOWN YOUR FATHER, YOU CHEATER. CCP's running a game, not running a government. There are no stakes here that matter, because NONE of us actually own ANYTHING in EVE. Not even our accounts. Is this too complicated to understand? There are stakes that matter. In the real world you see (you might have been there - but maybe not), there is this concept called currency. People earn this thing called currency, then they spend it on various products, or 'commodities'. However when they spend it on something which turns out to be sub standard, or, lets say an mmorpg in which the staff are corrupt, they might feel a bit peeved, because they didn't realise they were paying for that. Is that too complicated to understand? Would you understand these terms: "CCP is selling a product, not running a government." If you don't like the product, then don't buy it. It's a better and more effective course of action than acting like a drama queen. If you don't like how CCP runs EVE, then create a game like EVE, run it better than CCP, and get all of their customers. Reality is like that. Actually, if you buy a product of which the producer knows its faulty, or should know its faulty, or it is advertised in a manner that is misleading, there are other recourses open to consumers. Some examples are of course more clearcut than others (Carmanufacturers recalling faulty cars), but what would you do if you hear that in spite what it says on the packaging, Budweiser actually put cow urine in the beer they make? Nobody got really ill, but they certainly didn't get what was advertised. Is the only recourse then to stop buying Budweiser? I think not. Eve may be a game, but it is very much A CONSUMERPRODUCT at the same time, and the same standards apply. (disclaimer, of course Budweiser does not put cow urine in their beer, just a fictitious example) signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 07:42:00 - [4262] dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.29 07:46:00 - [4263] Originally by: DB Preacher dbp You wouldn't be laughing if your paypal account movimentation was examined by justice, DB preacher. It is not very likely to happen, but one can dream, can't him? Who knows, we may have a public attorney here in the forums.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.29 07:50:00 - [4264] Originally by: DB Preacher dbp Question DBP, do you think Hellmar is laughing atm? signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Ammoina University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 07:50:00 - [4265] Edited by: Ammoina on 29/05/2007 07:49:36 The Mob:CCP CHEATED US ALL CCP: Just let me enter your accusations into my IA black box... The Mob:YOU CHEATED US CCP: Ah black box is done. It says we're innocent. The Mob: Oh. Right. Ok Something wrong with that picture? Yeah, the black box. No one who didn't already want to believe CCP's innocence is going to be convinced of anything by 'petition found, but we can't show it to you' and 'already investigated, nothing to see here.' BoB didn't help measures by publicly saying that they've got the MSN contacts for Devs and GMs. Meh. I'll keep playing EVE because there is nothing else on the market that is a replacement. And uh, CCP really, really, really needs to take a closer look at its rules regarding allowing developers into player corps.
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:08:00 - [4266] Originally by: DB Preacher dbp And BoB wonders why its taking flack.. I doubt CCP is laughing.. I bet more then a few account subscriptions have been cancelled over this. Mine have.. I think the defenders of what has happend forget this is a product over 150k people pay real money for. Just by this CCP have a responsibility to its customers. People who think its CCP's game, they can do what they want, are blind to the fact that they provide a service, and if confidence in that service is undermined it affect them in the real world, if any body believes its does not then they are fools. Many of the posts defending CCP, by a certain alliance have done nothing but to further damage CCP. They are currently loosing members left right and center, and worse the negitive press on the various news sites atm is turning would be new members away in droves.
Azuraito Caldari Infestation.	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:12:00 - [4267] BOD up to no good again!
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:12:00 - [4268] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Muff Joos What needs to be cleared up? You've already admitted that you have a direct line of communication with the devs through msn. that's the only issue i've ever cared about. It's clear and in the open. Lots of people in lots of corps / alliances have the same. Is it just BoB that you think would use them to "cheat", or are you accusing everyone equally? Oh come on.. It is so far only BoB and BoB alone that have been stupid enough to confess to having a direct line to CCP-Cave. And on top of that.. You also confessed to abusing that line! Stop waveing your hands around screaming, you wont dumb it down, you wont make it go away, you screwed up and now heads will roll. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:12:00 - [4269] false dichotomies are the new black
QuantumX Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:13:00 - [4270] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 29/05/2007 02:31:45 How goes the witch hunt?? Gee to bad You could always quit Or you could come out and fight bob, and when you lose you can explain it away with "omgbobhaxorcheatsploit". How can you beat an offer like that??? Sorry about your witch hunt And yet this SPAM and TROLLING.. does not get moderated.. Score another one for the BoB and CCP PR Machine.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:29:00 - [4271] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Angelyn a person who opennly admits they are using lines that nobody else has is openly admitting to..... What is it folks, say it with me C H E A T I N G they therefore have no leg to stand on, this being the case, CCP they have given you only one choice. Those who are members of BoB and have spoken up here admitting to such fraternization should be imediately banned. The members of bob should be gone over with a fine tooth comb and any member having shown gains from such interactions should either be banned or temporarily suspended. BoB itself with their own words have given you no other real choices in this. not only that but the members of CCP found to have been involved with such activity should I believe be not fired, but suspended without pay for a period of time which will drive home the results of such interaction in a way which will have an impact. This would solve the problem outright and take care of the entire debical. Their could be other answers, however the one I give may well be one of the best involved. if however CCP sees clear to recompense the rest of the community for their past actions this would greatly help to improve things as well. I am not demnding this, nor do I believe that CCP will do such a thing, but I do humbly make the suggestion. I have no links to CCP nor would I wish any. I have however been a victim of BoB manipulation of the game in their favor. I don't care if I get reimbursed for it though as long as the problem is taken care of and everything is taken care of, period. That sort of depends on you allegation that no-one else has access to the same method of communication. How many other people need to have access before it is fair? Also, why sould only BoB members be scrutinised? Surely your fine tooth comb has to be used on everyone, not just a select few? Giving BoB access to a fine tooth comb that not everyone has access to is CHEATING .. or something. Befor everybody has access to the same method of communictions it will be unfair. If I got to play eve for free and you had to pay, coz of your gold membership in the CCP-Club for special friends, then it wouldnt be unfair that I didnt have the MSN contact. But as it stays now, the only people we now are having and using to cheat, unfair contacts with the devs are BoB and BoB alone. And it sure as daylight aint coz they upgraded their membership to Gold or Platinum. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Karim alRashid Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:48:00 - [4272] Edited by: Karim alRashid on 29/05/2007 08:49:26 Hahaha, BoB/CCP propaganda machine in full speed on COAD. Indeed, why not divert, divert, divert, divert, divert and divert attention. To bad they choose more or less this: Originally by: SirMolle There are no Goons. And this is as personal as it will ever get. Originally by: Blacklight Goons are going to die, no matter what it takes. Originally by: DB Preacher Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again? No. but said (allegedly) by TheMittani. Speaking of being hypocritical... Edit: Changed BoD to BoB and CCP means that Cookies and Pie thing.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:50:00 - [4273] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: DB Preacher dbp Question DBP, do you think Hellmar is laughing atm? One may start to think you live for the forums Malachon. Kinda sad tbh.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:50:00 - [4274] Originally by: DB Preacher dbp You frecked up and you know it Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:50:00 - [4275] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: DB Preacher dbp Question DBP, do you think Hellmar is laughing atm? It's funny but you ask me like you think I give two hoots? I couldn't careless whether hellmar is laughing or not. I certainly am at each and everyone of you crying with false indignation over the game. I'm sure this time, it's the end for eve, just like last time, no really. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:53:00 - [4276] Edited by: DB Preacher on 29/05/2007 08:52:40 Originally by: Karim alRashid Hahaha, BoD/CCP propaganda machine in full speed on COAD. Indeed, why not divert, divert, divert, divert, divert and divert attention. To bad they choose more or less this: Originally by: SirMolle There are no Goons. And this is as personal as it will ever get. Originally by: Blacklight Goons are going to die, no matter what it takes. Originally by: DB Preacher Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again? No. but said (allegedly) by TheMittani. Speaking of being hypocritical... Ye know, just a hint here but when you reply off-topic you do more to divert the actual point than anyone ;) However, since you brought it up, I said a while back when someone posted complaining that goons were taking some 0.0 space that in comedy timing is everything. Right now we're removing you from 0.0 yet again and you have failed to do anything about it again. So no clue what you are blethering about posting the quotes, you might wanna go post them in SA, see if you can get another 1000 members to suicide because you are going to need them. ;) dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Azuraito Caldari Infestation.	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:55:00 - [4277] Originally by: Azuraito BOB up to no good again! Please don't troll. -Hango I wasnt, BOD name their ships DEVS whatever, so i think, BOD is well suited and since they have personel communications with DEVS (orange species+MSN), it's even more suited!
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:08:00 - [4278] Edited by: Avrunath on 29/05/2007 09:07:55 Originally by: MehTheTrader Again, you're welcome to criticise the mod team and tell us if you think that we've done something wrong, but the forums are not the place to do that. Send an email to [email protected]. Thank you. -Hango And again, look at this we being censored again. Are we in bloody China or America? There is something called "Freedom of Speech" dear CCP. This is enough. Stop the bloody censorship, you ruining the game with it. WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMER WITH A VOICE, THAT NEEDS TO BE HEARD IN THE WHOLE COMMUNITY!!!
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:09:00 - [4279] Originally by: Shadow Elk Oh come on.. It is so far only BoB and BoB alone that have been stupid enough to confess to having a direct line to CCP-Cave. And on top of that.. You also confessed to abusing that line! Stop waveing your hands around screaming, you wont dumb it down, you wont make it go away, you screwed up and now heads will roll. In fact BoB are the only ones who threatened people with 'no problem, I will just call my Dev friends' and bragged about it on the board. It's the typical arrogance of some members that makes the whole organization suffer. Pitty really. Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam.
Karim alRashid Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:13:00 - [4280] Originally by: DB Preacher Stuff ... You know, you remind me of a radio. You just talk you talk without even an attempt to maintain the illusion that your words are in anyway connected to what you're replying to.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:13:00 - [4281] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: DB Preacher dbp Question DBP, do you think Hellmar is laughing atm? One may start to think you live for the forums Malachon. Kinda sad tbh. Actually over the past weekend I had at least a dozen absolutely fabulous fleetfights with a worthy opponent, really showed how awesome this game can be in some areas. And got some experience in leading a big fleet \o/ Only 1 fight had terrible lag, but that was with 270 in local. Now back at work Anyway, HI BLACKLIGHT! signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:19:00 - [4282] Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: DB Preacher dbp Question DBP, do you think Hellmar is laughing atm? It's funny but you ask me like you think I give two hoots? I couldn't careless whether hellmar is laughing or not. I certainly am at each and everyone of you crying with false indignation over the game. I'm sure this time, it's the end for eve, just like last time, no really. dbp I know you think that what was being brought up here in the OP are a few minor things, perhaps handled clumsily by CCP, but minor issues really. And I would agree with you. But the fact that these minor issues can snowball into a 165 page thread in one weekend and posts all over the internet smearing EVE will give CCP pause I bet. And maybe it should give you pause as well. No game is invincible, and from where I stand I see anger and distrust that is very much real. Unfounded perhaps, thats an issue we could discuss all day, but very much real nonetheless. And the way it goes now, it will only be worse the next time. And yes, there will undoubtedly be a next time. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:25:00 - [4283] Edited by: DarkFenix on 29/05/2007 09:28:24 I'll confess I've not read the whole thread (let's face it who the hell is gonna trawl through 150+ pages of this drivel), but it does strike me as just the usual Goon, Goon alt, BoB hater and doomsayer bandwagon topic. From what I can tell a bunch off issues have been presented. None of which even have the level of proof the t20 incident did. What I find pretty stupid is that all these whiners in this thread are perfectly willing to believe any old idiot's accusations and take their words at face value, while anything CCP say is immediately disregarded as being a lie or cover up. But that isn't the stupidest thing. I accept that (the majority of) humans love a conspiracy theory and are rather stupid by nature. The stupidest thing is that all these whiners are sticking around and paying CCP. Why are you still here? You say CCP is such a disgrace, and no matter what CCP do to fix the problems you still say they're completely untrustworthy. So quit. CCP own Eve, it's their product. If you don't want it, don't buy it. If all you whiners quit then perhaps we will get a community of the sort of quality we used to. If I ran CCP I would have given up on trying to be reasonable with the community after the farce surrounding the t20 incident. This time round I would have been telling the whiners to stfu or p**s off. I guess it's just as well I'm not running CCP.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:30:00 - [4284] Originally by: Malachon Draco I know you think that what was being brought up here in the OP are a few minor things, perhaps handled clumsily by CCP, but minor issues really. And I would agree with you. But the fact that these minor issues can snowball into a 165 page thread in one weekend and posts all over the internet smearing EVE will give CCP pause I bet. And maybe it should give you pause as well. No game is invincible, and from where I stand I see anger and distrust that is very much real. Unfounded perhaps, thats an issue we could discuss all day, but very much real nonetheless. And the way it goes now, it will only be worse the next time. And yes, there will undoubtedly be a next time. Give me pause? why? What do you think CCP are going to do? Close down the servers because a bunch of newbs spam the forums to complain about some baseless accusations, most of which have already been thrown out as rubbish? The only pause this thread gives me is a pause from work so I can laugh at another dose of crocodile tears. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:36:00 - [4285] Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: Malachon Draco I know you think that what was being brought up here in the OP are a few minor things, perhaps handled clumsily by CCP, but minor issues really. And I would agree with you. But the fact that these minor issues can snowball into a 165 page thread in one weekend and posts all over the internet smearing EVE will give CCP pause I bet. And maybe it should give you pause as well. No game is invincible, and from where I stand I see anger and distrust that is very much real. Unfounded perhaps, thats an issue we could discuss all day, but very much real nonetheless. And the way it goes now, it will only be worse the next time. And yes, there will undoubtedly be a next time. Give me pause? why? What do you think CCP are going to do? Close down the servers because a bunch of newbs spam the forums to complain about some baseless accusations, most of which have already been thrown out as rubbish? The only pause this thread gives me is a pause from work so I can laugh at another dose of crocodile tears. dbp Oh come on.. You know you frecked up the moment you admitted to having unfair communication with the devs. That your people later admitted that it had been used to cheat only sweetens the deal. You keep talking about baseless accusations. They became hard fact at the beginning of this thread when the confessions started to trickle in. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:39:00 - [4286] There is definitely a problem, if some alliances can call their personal dev or isd contact to do something for them ingame and others can not. 1) Friends are biased in a conflict between 2 parties. 2) Friends are willing to invest more effort to solve things for you and make you happy, more effort than a stranger. If I call a GM and ask: 'Can you solve that for me ?' And he might answer: 'No sorry, not possible.' To his friend he might say: 'A bit difficult, but I look what I can do.' Some vets maybe think it's normal to benefit from having dev or ISD friends, but it can't work this way. We all pay money for this. My former alliance didn't have dev or gm contacts, everything needed to be solved via petition. I remember trouble with our enemies, they called a GM and I think the GM decision was stupid that day. ( A few weeks later GMs decided differenly over the same issue. ) Maybe if we had had an ISD mate and had called him before that, he would also have decided differently. And that just can't be. I don't care, if other alliances have this means too that they can call isd or dev friends to solve something for them, but it needs to be stopped. Having a dev or ISD friend shouldn't give you any advantage ingame. --------------------------------------------- snip
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:39:00 - [4287] Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: Malachon Draco I know you think that what was being brought up here in the OP are a few minor things, perhaps handled clumsily by CCP, but minor issues really. And I would agree with you. But the fact that these minor issues can snowball into a 165 page thread in one weekend and posts all over the internet smearing EVE will give CCP pause I bet. And maybe it should give you pause as well. No game is invincible, and from where I stand I see anger and distrust that is very much real. Unfounded perhaps, thats an issue we could discuss all day, but very much real nonetheless. And the way it goes now, it will only be worse the next time. And yes, there will undoubtedly be a next time. Give me pause? why? What do you think CCP are going to do? Close down the servers because a bunch of newbs spam the forums to complain about some baseless accusations, most of which have already been thrown out as rubbish? The only pause this thread gives me is a pause from work so I can laugh at another dose of crocodile tears. dbp Why it should give you pause: One of the EVE developers said I think the average time a player spends in Eve is 7-9 months somewhere. Which means that with 200k active accounts, you're looking at a turnover of about 20k a month. Bad publicity everywhere is gonna discourage people from joining, and won't encourage anyone in staying. Eve's reputation is getting closer to a point where everyone with a clue about MMOs is not gonna join it. Eventually that will choke the life out of it. I have seen the virtual death of SWG as a MMO (I used to lead one of the biggest Imperial Guilds there) and I am seeing parallels here to be honest. And even if this is just a minor incident and mostly just smoke, you know as well as I do that a smear is always on the front page in 48 point bold, rectifications end up on page 14 in small print in a corner. The fact that this blew up to a 165 page thread and plastered over various internet forums is not gonna be helping Eve. And we both know that small incidents will continue to happen, and if they continue to lead to this kind of reactions, eventually Eve will be in serious trouble. Personally I am watching this more with a bit of amusement and perhaps a bit of morbid fascination for what is going on. Outrage, far from it, or to be perfectly honest, not anymore . But just like some of your members, I don't mind tossing a canister of gasoline on a fire every now and again just to see what happens next. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:43:00 - [4288] Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Why wasnt the cheating ccp employ fired for giving bob t2 bpos? Why was the reporter fired literally instantiously becuase your player "Orange Species" had a complaint about a bumb, which is unconfirmed and also un proven to have been malicoius? /signed
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:47:00 - [4289] I just logged in and couldn't help but smile at the client splash screen : "Eve-Online : Revelations" Kind of ironic... given the current situation... >>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
Karim alRashid Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:47:00 - [4290] Edited by: Karim alRashid on 29/05/2007 09:47:08 Originally by: DarkFenix You say CCP is such a disgrace, and no matter what CCP do to fix the problems you still say they're completely untrustworthy. So quit. CCP own Eve, it's their product. If you don't want it, don't buy it. Sure, if I knew an advance of a widespead cheating, rigging and developer favourism I wouldn't buy it, of course. You're right here. But now, I've spend a certain amount of money and a huge amount of time (not to count the developing carpal tunnel syndrome). Also I'm ***** ed off that what appeared a perfectly respectable company[1] in fact scammed me. Why should I quit? Are you going to reimburse me? Apparently not. See, the only thing naturally left is to beat the cheaters until they either quit or the resort to such a blatant amount of cheating that nobody plays EVE anymore And now call the above "whining". [1] yeah, and don't give me the bull** of a few bad apples when the company goes beyond itself to cover up for the "few bad apples".
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:50:00 - [4291] Originally by: Malachon Draco Why it should give you pause: One of the EVE developers said I think the average time a player spends in Eve is 7-9 months somewhere. Which means that with 200k active accounts, you're looking at a turnover of about 20k a month. Bad publicity everywhere is gonna discourage people from joining, and won't encourage anyone in staying. Eve's reputation is getting closer to a point where everyone with a clue about MMOs is not gonna join it. Eventually that will choke the life out of it. I have seen the virtual death of SWG as a MMO (I used to lead one of the biggest Imperial Guilds there) and I am seeing parallels here to be honest. You're not getting it Malachon. I don't care. I'll play until they take the servers down, then I'll play something else. If they take the servers down tomoz, I will stop playing tomoz. My life won't be destroyed, I won't curl up in a ball and cry myself to sleep everynight. I'll simply play something else as all good things come to an end eventually. That's why I don't give "pause" for the banal discussions in here. 165 pages of aimless garbage resulting in nothing. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Xamini	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:51:00 - [4292] Originally by: Rebellion CCP doesn't make servers crash, you might be thinking of the goons, who intentionally bring newbie ships, shuttles and T1 frigates into a system with the full knowledge that no hardware in the world could handle the load. well... if you can¦t fight the software, you have to fight the hardware
Gee Lok	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:53:00 - [4293] Originally by: Avrunath something about "Freedom of Speech" and censorship I think you have an inflated understanding of the definition of free speech. Practically every forum on the internet is moderated. Moreover, the rules for the moderation are clearly set out and the moderators excercise their powers fairly and consistently (i.e. zero tollerance). You have no grounds for complaint.
Hectaire Glade Forum Jockey	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:58:00 - [4294] Originally by: Avrunath And again, look at this we being censored again. Are we in bloody China or America? There is something called "Freedom of Speech" dear CCP. This is enough. Stop the bloody censorship, you ruining the game with it. WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMER WITH A VOICE, THAT NEEDS TO BE HEARD IN THE WHOLE COMMUNITY!!! Err, neither China or America, you are posting on a board based on a server in London owned by a company in Iceland. Say something sensible and you will be heard, rant and cry and your audience will evaporate. You agreed to the terms of service for using this board by logging in with your account, if you don't like it, don't post.
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.29 10:01:00 - [4295] Originally by: DB Preacher Give me pause? why? What do you think CCP are going to do? Close down the servers because a bunch of newbs spam the forums to complain about some baseless accusations, most of which have already been thrown out as rubbish? The only pause this thread gives me is a pause from work so I can laugh at another dose of crocodile tears. dbp i dont know if your some bob political guy or whatever, but as ive said bob should "calm down" and i think im very right about that, especially when you insult the whole forum community for taking this serious thats what i think that said anyways.. the very serious stuff hasnt even been toutched by CCP yet and here you brag about everything being baseless accusations when obviously its quite a stirr! This isnt "only" about bob and goons, just missed my post and should read it.. maybe then might you see why this is serious... faul play is always seriopus and imo bob are throwing stuff from the air to defend themselves. its not only bob and goons on this forum, i dont even play/care or want to care about alliance **** or what bob think do or goons.. i care about the stuff with MSN contacts, direct lines, players having control over staff and being able to ban staff/players or make other things happen for them. witch has not as said even been toutched by CCP yet so if i were you i would ease down with the "our alliance is so innocent we havent done anything" since that is yet to be proven... im on nweither side but i said in other posts that bob should calm down.. and you should tbh, read my post on the previous page i hope you get it and its a friendly advice and another point of view neither bob nor goon. seriously theres been forum bans for bob for stuff before, i think they should make that happen again (bob CEO should command it from members is what i mean).. i dont want to "assult/insult or be like that in any way.. but chill, let CCP tell us how it is, and stop denying/defending things because as my previous post only ones that knows the truth is CCP. its pointless for bob to nag about it, and its pointless for goons to do the same. discuss it sure but dont "claim" things have been solved as the things solved didnt even matter and was not of any importance and not big deals (imo!) while the serious things are yet to be mentioned by CCP... gah.. --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Tanti Aglaia	Posted - 2007.05.29 10:07:00 - [4296] Open letter to Mittani, Dear friend, What will be your next move? Can u put your swarm to fight in-game because we all pay-ing this game to play the game not to fight on forums. First was lots of topics with the "this train is not stopping"... after F-T moment when the war turns against u I saw tons of topics with the titan nerf and now this mega-topic! Can u tell us what u prepare next? Maybe u can put your swarm to made mass-petition to force CCP to born everyone in a t2 ship instead of ibis to give to goons a fair chance againts others? Or can u put your swarm to made mass-petition to force CCP to redistribute t2'bpo's? Or maybe a starting from zero to all? Nice movements until now Mittani. If u cannot win this game or at least to gain respect, destroy him. Now it's your chance u have the man numbers and i see u use them in the most malefic way.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.29 10:09:00 - [4297] Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: Malachon Draco Why it should give you pause: One of the EVE developers said I think the average time a player spends in Eve is 7-9 months somewhere. Which means that with 200k active accounts, you're looking at a turnover of about 20k a month. Bad publicity everywhere is gonna discourage people from joining, and won't encourage anyone in staying. Eve's reputation is getting closer to a point where everyone with a clue about MMOs is not gonna join it. Eventually that will choke the life out of it. I have seen the virtual death of SWG as a MMO (I used to lead one of the biggest Imperial Guilds there) and I am seeing parallels here to be honest. You're not getting it Malachon. I don't care. I'll play until they take the servers down, then I'll play something else. If they take the servers down tomoz, I will stop playing tomoz. My life won't be destroyed, I won't curl up in a ball and cry myself to sleep everynight. I'll simply play something else as all good things come to an end eventually. That's why I don't give "pause" for the banal discussions in here. 165 pages of aimless garbage resulting in nothing. dbp Are you seriously telling me you would not be grumpy if they closed the servers tomorrow? Right... People invested a lot of time and effort into a game, generally that means they care at least to some extent about it. Now I am not implying anyone will cry over Eve closing down (I have some books I'd like to finish still, and I have barely touched my Medieval Total War II game), I bet lots of people will not be happy. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
DeTox MinRohim Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.29 10:13:00 - [4298] Edited by: DeTox MinRohim on 29/05/2007 10:12:08 Originally by: MissileRus stuff... insult the whole forum community for taking this serious thats what i think that said anyways.. FREEZE!!! There... now please... stop pretending the whole community: 1) Reads the forums 2) Agrees with you 3) Cares... There... fixed. You can now carry on. ------ This sig space is Read-only ! omgalink
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.29 10:22:00 - [4299] If you dont like my opinion you can ban me for having one. Im really fed up with you guys, if it wasnt for the game i would be gone already. Man take a look what a good game you have and start to behave like serious Buisnessman.
boeses frettchen 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.29 10:27:00 - [4300] Originally by: DarkFenix The stupidest thing is that all these whiners are sticking around and paying CCP. Why are you still here? You say CCP is such a disgrace, and no matter what CCP do to fix the problems you still say they're completely untrustworthy. So quit. CCP own Eve, it's their product. If you don't want it, don't buy it. If all you whiners quit then perhaps we will get a community of the sort of quality we used to. If I ran CCP I would have given up on trying to be reasonable with the community after the farce surrounding the t20 incident. This time round I would have been telling the whiners to stfu or ps off. I guess it's just as well I'm not running CCP. i am here because i bought this game some years ago, paied it for a long time, invested much time into it, in short i love this game. And i do not want to get this game destroyed... Who are u to tell me to quit this, without at least trying to fix it? Who are u to tell the eve community to ** off? Only coz u was once Evol it does not qualify to such arrogance, but whatever pleases u. Prolly u should ask CCP a private server where u can invite a community that pleases u
Duff Ray	Posted - 2007.05.29 10:33:00 - [4301] In my opinion, they can't ban any accounts that have had direct MSN communications or have had favoritism in other methods, as many players are requesting. That would tick off the players that had the direct MSN communications and they could spill the beans of how deep this relationship really is; and that would really tick off a lot of the playerbase. In other words, if these players exist, they now have power over CCP. Since they can't ban the players, they have to find a different option, whatever that may be.
ZENZATION	Posted - 2007.05.29 10:43:00 - [4302] This is getting really old and boring. Goons accuse bob, bob blames goons, "normal" players just want to play a fair game and ccp moderators dont want you to talk about <CENSORED BY MOD>. Even if some scandal is discovered by CCP, they'll downgrade it to a minor incident, the thread will be closed and people wont even bother talking about it anymore, might aswell get it over with and close this thread right now.
Mystikos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.29 10:49:00 - [4303] Originally by: Duff Ray In my opinion, they can't ban any accounts that have had direct MSN communications or have had favoritism in other methods, as many players are requesting. That would tick off the players that had the direct MSN communications and they could spill the beans of how deep this relationship really is; and that would really tick off a lot of the playerbase. In other words, if these players exist, they now have power over CCP. Since they can't ban the players, they have to find a different option, whatever that may be. Easy: Disband BoB, and enact dev/GM character management rules with teeth behind them. As much as the entirety of BoB looks complicit in these accusations for the actions of a few, so does CCP every second they refuse to take action. They didn't fire T20 when they should have; they simply promised it wouldn't happen again. They have failed in that promise, simply by issuing the standard boilerplate of "move along, nothing to see here." The allegations are that an entire alliance benefited from a special relationship with the developers of the game. Nothing less than a public acknowledgment of this relationship, along with an honest declaration that the circumstances that allowed the relationship to be created won't be allowed to come up again, will truly silence the critics here. Did you know Blizzard banned an entire guild from WoW because a few of the high-end players were using wallhacks to bypass certain content in a dungeon? Bungie regularly bans teammates of hackers from Halo 2, even when those teammates have done nothing wrong themselves. These companies recognize how quickly things can get out of hand when it is perceived that not enough has been done. Simply disband BoB, force all dev/GM player accounts to be renamed and re-historied, forbid any devs/GMs from contacting any other players outside of official channels, forbid any devs/GMs to disclose the names of their characters to the public, forbid any devs/GMS from using @ccpgames.com e-mail addresses on guild/public sites, and announce to the population of the server that any discussion of msn accounts held by any employee of CCP will result in an immediate and permanent ban.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:08:00 - [4304] So now that CCP own White Wolf... will this mean that any Band of Brothers member who plays Vampire: The Requiem will have an automatic +3 dots on all stats, and get twenty extra merit points? You're still trying to cover it up. Pathetic, CCP. I expect better.
Nazdarovie Minmatar Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:12:00 - [4305] Smack with an alt is just lame. Oh and DBP T20 never happened did it ? I remember the bob treadnought denying it then about 10 days of silence once it was proven fact. Don't troll please. -Hango Don't use your signature to troll. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:37:00 - [4306] Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 29/05/2007 11:36:43 So. We've shown that Sharkbait joining the corp in question, was a simple misunderstanding from a oldish petition. We've shown that whilst event's have an intended arc, they can be pushed wildly off course if the community wishes/acts. We've still yet to see: Whether the sacking of the ISD member, was in any way related to the CCP-Hotline that people claim BoB to have. Whether BoB are still being treated preferentially compared to other alliances. My thoughts on the matter: Whether it be 'friendly bander with CCP' or not. BoB pilots publically admitting that they have a CCP-hotline is simply not on. I mean c'mon, how fair does it look to other players when you guys say that? Even more so, do you realise how stupid you look when you threaten someone in the game, that you have that level of power and influence? One of the problems is, that a lot of the important and knowledgeable members of the community (the 23) now fly for BoB or MC (which some argue are one in the same). Whilst I can understand that these members might be taken more seriously by CCP; the fact of the matter is that they all fly under the same banner. There are simply too few 'voices of reason' left in neutral corporations. I am sure that 99% of BoB had nothing to do with the T20 BPO incident. But I am afraid that it is a tarnish that BoB has to live with. That and other alleged borderline exploits, all count against the validity of whatever you do. I am guessing that a large part of the community feels that your alliance, or T20, have not been adequately punished for it. Admittedly the same allegations are made against other alliances, but they have not been involved in anything near the scale of said T20 incident. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Karim alRashid Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:53:00 - [4307] Originally by: DB Preacher Eloquent rhetoric how DB Preacher does not care I see. That explains why you cheat.
Komaito Re-Awakened Technologies Inc	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:55:00 - [4308] Well... The internal investigation is still going on, but I doubt any result CCP will publish will console the people who want to see the heads roll. Maybe it's time for CCP to get some external help? Some support from Blizzard, NCSoft or SOE with no connections to EVE could investigate the allegiations at hand. I think some of the the people who won't believe anything CCP has to say now would believe them. And maybe CCP can regain some trust, if they let themselves monitor by professional outsiders. ------------------------------------ radiation... too much radiation...
Karim alRashid Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:07:00 - [4309] Originally by: Komaito The internal investigation is still going on, but I doubt any result CCP will publish will console the people who want to see the heads roll. CCP can still gain some trust, e.g. if they publish along the results the procedures they used in the investigation. That would put MUCH more weight than statements, "we looked into it, we didn't find anything wrong, the petition number is 0xdeadbeef, move along, nothing to see here, trust us".
Mystikos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:08:00 - [4310] Originally by: Komaito Well... The internal investigation is still going on, but I doubt any result CCP will publish will console the people who want to see the heads roll. Maybe it's time for CCP to get some external help? Some support from Blizzard, NCSoft or SOE with no connections to EVE could investigate the allegiations at hand. I think some of the the people who won't believe anything CCP has to say now would believe them. And maybe CCP can regain some trust, if they let themselves monitor by professional outsiders. That's probably a really bad idea. SOE, as a competitor to CCP in the space-based MMO genre and a dedicated believer in the "we hate our customers" policy, would likely make things worse. Blizzard and NCSoft likewise would have no interest in assisting CCP, and CCP would likely reject any "suggestions" made outright. They can recover from this with an internal investigation, but only a true investigation, not a "how can we spin this as quickly as possible" cover-up. -------------------------------- Fix Eve -- Disband BoB
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:19:00 - [4311] Originally by: DarkFenix Edited by: DarkFenix on 29/05/2007 09:28:24 I'll confess I've not read the whole thread (let's face it who the hell is gonna trawl through 150+ pages of this drivel), but it does strike me as just the usual Goon, Goon alt, BoB hater and doomsayer bandwagon topic. From what I can tell a bunch off issues have been presented. None of which even have the level of proof the t20 incident did. What I find pretty stupid is that all these whiners in this thread are perfectly willing to believe any old idiot's accusations and take their words at face value, while anything CCP say is immediately disregarded as being a lie or cover up. But that isn't the stupidest thing. I accept that (the majority of) humans love a conspiracy theory and are rather stupid by nature. The stupidest thing is that all these whiners are sticking around and paying CCP. Why are you still here? You say CCP is such a disgrace, and no matter what CCP do to fix the problems you still say they're completely untrustworthy. So quit. CCP own Eve, it's their product. If you don't want it, don't buy it. If all you whiners quit then perhaps we will get a community of the sort of quality we used to. If I ran CCP I would have given up on trying to be reasonable with the community after the farce surrounding the t20 incident. This time round I would have been telling the whiners to stfu or p**s off. I guess it's just as well I'm not running CCP. oh but I did read all 160 pages, and what's got me upset is Dian admitting on page 12 that they do have an MSN line to the devs which nobody else in the game has
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:21:00 - [4312] Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: Malachon Draco I know you think that what was being brought up here in the OP are a few minor things, perhaps handled clumsily by CCP, but minor issues really. And I would agree with you. But the fact that these minor issues can snowball into a 165 page thread in one weekend and posts all over the internet smearing EVE will give CCP pause I bet. And maybe it should give you pause as well. No game is invincible, and from where I stand I see anger and distrust that is very much real. Unfounded perhaps, thats an issue we could discuss all day, but very much real nonetheless. And the way it goes now, it will only be worse the next time. And yes, there will undoubtedly be a next time. Give me pause? why? What do you think CCP are going to do? Close down the servers because a bunch of newbs spam the forums to complain about some baseless accusations, most of which have already been thrown out as rubbish? The only pause this thread gives me is a pause from work so I can laugh at another dose of crocodile tears. dbp since your own people have admitted accidentally to some of those so called basely accusations I think you got a problem
Frygok Minmatar Mean Anglo-Danes	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:25:00 - [4313] Have to, pretty impressive that you actually posted what you did regarding the MSN, Dianabolic. Respect for that. I am intrigued by why you did it though? I don't give a flying hoot if it's BOB or any other alliance who have GM's and Devs on MSN. It just screams to high heavens that Devs and GM's actually have old EVE friends on MSN, who apparently are AWARE that these people are now GM's and devs. I thought there was supposed to be some anonymity to the role of GM/Dev? If you wanted to keep the contact with your Eve buddies, then don't freakin' tell them that you are going to join the CCP team, as apparently they have been doing, if Dianobolics post is to be believed(I am actually still uncertain whether your posts are genius trolling ). The issue is not with BOB, the issue is with CCP. The fact that it happened to be BOB who had them on MSN is irrelevant. And if BOB-gone-Dev/GM's keep in contact with old friends who are aware of them being devs/GM's, then it's very likely other alliances have the same. And then we are back to the lack of transparency on what GM's and devs are actually allowed to participate in regarding to EVE.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:27:00 - [4314] Originally by: Angelyn oh but I did read all 160 pages, and what's got me upset is Dian admitting on page 12 that they do have an MSN line to the devs which nobody else in the game has You need to read them all again and check the "which nobody else in the game has" bit. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:30:00 - [4315] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Angelyn oh but I did read all 160 pages, and what's got me upset is Dian admitting on page 12 that they do have an MSN line to the devs which nobody else in the game has You need to read them all again and check the "which nobody else in the game has" bit. Nobody else in the game has been so stupid as to admit to it so until then Prooof or STFU. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:39:00 - [4316] Originally by: Angelyn oh but I did read all 160 pages, and what's got me upset is Dian admitting on page 12 that they do have an MSN line to the devs which nobody else in the game has Yes but is that admittal in itself any evidence of wrongdoing? I don't see anything wrong with being friends with devs/GMs, so long as that doesn't result in consistent preferential treatment to BoB. Incidentally, there isn't any solid evidence of CCP's supposed helping of BoB. Sure, t20 spawned himself some BPO's which were then given to BoB, but he is just one guy. And this thing about the ISD member CCP got rid of (supposedly on BoB's word alone). Well, I read what he wrote and it was pretty biased. He deserved it tbh. At any rate, we don't know how many people are in close contact with CCP members. There are likely a lot of them in a lot of alliances. Anyone who goes to a fan-fest or a similar event potentially has a dev in his back pocket, the thing is, so much negative attention is focused on BoB that nobody cares about the rest. That's partly what really annoys me about these threads. BoB were the ones linked to the initial dev misconduct issue, so the popular bandwagon is to blame BoB for any issues coming up in Eve, through dubious evidence at best. Node crash? Blame BoB. Your fleet gets destroyed by BoB? They must be cheating. Server lagging? Must be BoB again. I've seen that crap repeated ad nauseum across every board. I used to think the BoB forum crew were bad, but having seen GS and co lately I've thought again.
Capt Willard STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:50:00 - [4317] Whether or not CCP helps/uses corps&alliances is not in question imo. The real question is was it sanctioned from the highest lvls or is this a few rouge employees playing god? "There will be no cover up, I've previously stated my belief that it's not possible to cover up any in game events of any kind for long, the truth will out." replies from CCP like this seem noble, but they don't mention all the people that got banned for even suggesting foul play (bout 18 members of DS1 one example) Bit more sympathy/slack should have been given there imo. I think it all comes straight from the top, but not with some evil 'lets play our own game in god mode' motive, but to try and shape the Eve universe to keep it going where so many other games failed. CCP seems desperate to stop Eve getting crap in the same ways other big games like WoW have, especially with the economy. (money is all but meaningless in WoW and many other games) What was causing the market to get crap in Eve? T2 price fixing / farming etc. Farming is impossible to stop, people will find someway of doing it. SO invention appears, reducing the T2 prices from about 10 times build cost to bout 2 times the build cost in about a month. Its odds based, so can be generally manipulated by CCP to suite market saturation etc (anyone else had their T2 ship invention odds drop to nearly zero since the markets got floaded?) So how to get rid/blow up all of the silly isk/item stockpiles and bump the economy back into place? An intergalactic world war and billions destroyed every day would do alot, now if only CCP could find an alliance to back/help to do it.... In short, this game is mostly populated by geeks angry at the real world, and very fond of venting it on the forums when Eve isn't tailored to their exact wants. CCP has to act on these reguests in some way, but you cant fix everything by bringing out new things/nerfing old ones. Some direct interferance is going to be necessary. The question is this, if wealth/assests need to be reduced to help Eve keep an economy, would you rather it got blinked off the server during a DT? or would you rather fight with it till it gets blown up, even if its a unfair/rigged fight? Personally, i'd prefer the fireworks. I just hope CCP has the balls to do this abit more openly, and realises that general faith in the game is just as important as its mechanics. The Horror......
Solasta Kovacs Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:51:00 - [4318] Edited by: Solasta Kovacs on 29/05/2007 12:52:11 Edited by: Solasta Kovacs on 29/05/2007 12:50:55 QUOTE- "That's partly what really annoys me about these threads. BoB were the ones linked to the initial dev misconduct issue, so the popular bandwagon is to blame BoB for any issues coming up in Eve, through dubious evidence at best. Node crash? Blame BoB. Your fleet gets destroyed by BoB? They must be cheating. Server lagging? Must be BoB again. I've seen that crap repeated ad nauseum across every board. I used to think the BoB forum crew were bad, but having seen GS and co lately I've thought again." (sorry forgot to quote it...) -------- I agree entirely (yeah yeah I know I'm biased etc). The instant assumption and insinuation by many goons and friends was - Sharkbait gets involved with pos= must be sinister= must be helping BOB. The fact that they lumped such a spurious allegation in with other issues and chose to wait and spam the forums with them all at the same time, rather than raising them in the proper manner at the time, tells us much about their motives and intentions. All that from one innocent and minor aspect of the very well respected sharkbait doing his damned job! Its absurd- and frankly libellous insofar as Sharkbait is concerned. As for the idea that no one else in the game has contacts at CCP- thats nonsensical. I can think of one straight away who has those sorts of contacts. It was well known- and he wasn't a member of any BOB friendly alliance... ---------------------- The Tumaril: "Pies are different"
Gurn Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:55:00 - [4319] What's a dev contact on msn worth? 1 billion, 100 billion? 1 trillion? snip Removed - contact [email protected] to find out why.
Gee Lok	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:02:00 - [4320] Originally by: Angelyn oh but I did read all 160 pages, and what's got me upset is Dian admitting on page 12 that they do have an MSN line to the devs which nobody else in the game has When did Dian say that he is the only one? More importantly, how did he find out?
Hachun K'ar	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:03:00 - [4321] Originally by: Gee Lok Originally by: Angelyn oh but I did read all 160 pages, and what's got me upset is Dian admitting on page 12 that they do have an MSN line to the devs which nobody else in the game has When did Dian say that he is the only one? More importantly, how did he find out? Hello BoB alt... use your main! Y'arrrrrrrr
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:15:00 - [4322] Originally by: FireFoxx80 So. [list=a] We've shown that Sharkbait joining the corp in question, was a simple misunderstanding from a oldish petition. I haven't seen proof of any such thing.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:17:00 - [4323] Originally by: Gee Lok Originally by: Angelyn oh but I did read all 160 pages, and what's got me upset is Dian admitting on page 12 that they do have an MSN line to the devs which nobody else in the game has When did Dian say that he is the only one? More importantly, how did he find out? It is probable that he is not the only one with a batphone to CCP. He is however the only one who has admitted it. We have had other bobs here admitting that the Batphone has been used to gain advantages ingame, such as bypassing the petition system. Also admitted is that they have discussed EVE with the developers and I for one would love to see those logs, perhaps I could get a better insight on how EVE works and how to optimise my isk making. It is not about how many has the batphone. It is about a MSN contact between developers and players even exist.. And that it can and has been abused for in game advantages. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Daniella Althera	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:18:00 - [4324] By the way, Graelyn still speaks in you know where, here's one particular quote from him that made a lot of people raise their eyebrows: Quote: I should have been out scouting enemy positions every day in Empire with my '/tr'playername' commands, I should have been ganging with people and letting them gangwarp to enemy safespots and logged out capships. I should have accepted the story assignments about my enemies that I always turned down and made them look like **, repeatedly, infront of the entire community. Why in the hell did I have to let something like MORALS or A PROMISE get in the way of not ***** over people I didn't like? Bold and underline used for emphasis.
Mud Pandemonium Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:22:00 - [4325] Edited by: Mud Pandemonium on 29/05/2007 13:21:47 Have to head to work soon, just thought I'd throw this in the face of that BoB person screaming "Baseless accusation" Accusation: BoB uses MSN contacts for insta-petitions and to influence in-game matters. Base: An ISD member quickly fired after threatened by a BoB member, Dianbolic openly admitting they have a "hotline" to the higher ups at CCP. The only baseless accusation being thrown around here is the one that goons are somehow orchestrating this entire debacle, truly you give them far too much credit. Where in the hell did people get the idea that it was a Goon-ISD member? Where the hell did people come up with "ISD member was bumping the dreads around" Using one of the commands to appear at a player location the ISD member accidently bumped ONE dread, was this right? Nope, was this a mistake? Indeed it was, is it his fault? Yes and no, yes that he used the command knowing where it would land him, no because he didn't design the command and to be honest I doubt CCP has given commands for specific distances from the target player. However I could be wrong about this. Anyways, if the BoBers and their puppets would kindly stop spinning things and distorting facts I'm sure the entire EVE-O community would be much obliged. Lastly, could you please lose the arrogance when posting on these forums regarding issues concerning you and your conduct? A little tact might be in order here. I know you may have this false sense of security because you're in one of the older and more powerful alliances but you're not immune from the rules that apply to the rest of us who pay a monthly fee. When you're accused of misconduct the worst thing you can tell your fellow players is "If you don't like it, quit" No, I will not quit, I pay the same amount you do to play per month, fairly sure you're not entitled to any sort of preferential treatment. Regardless, I have to go earn a living.
SterlingReps	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:28:00 - [4326] The lot of you prattling on, mewling like toothless, dull clawed, old lions. Cloudy, glazed over, cataract eyed unable to keep from urinating on yourselves. æPetitioningÆ for redress, pathetic feigns at ælegal repercussionsÆ, æEULA agreementsÆ, and punitive, æsubscription cancellationsÆ. Each of you thinking the more you say a thin the more valid it becomes. So simple-minded as to believe that yelling will somehow induce listening by the other party. So many voices united clamoring on about one chronology or another, incapable of recognizing the kairoi and not a one save my own recognizing the moment for what it is; a moment of opportunity and demand for action. Players in play not developers, to CCPÆs credit, though likely unbeknownst, can resolve this; in game, using the mechanics at hand. ôOpportunity; that the lock of hair on his forehead indicated that while he is easy to catch as he approaches, yet, when he has passed by, the moment of action has likewise expired, and that, if opportunity is neglected, it cannot be recovered.ö
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:28:00 - [4327] @ Rhaegor Stormborn: I've not seen any proof of wrongdoing. From the evidence presented, Sharkbait quite openly entered their corp, not trying to hide this fact. He says it was to fix a problem, is there any particular reason to disbelieve him? All I see in this matter is a bit of sloppy admin work. Sharkbait not bothering to inform all necessary parties of all actions undertaken. But then again, if there wasn't this incessant witch hunt going on there wouldn't really be a need to would there? @ Shadow Elk: It isn't a "batphone to CCP", it's a few people in BoB maintaining contact with friends who happen to be CCP devs. Are they using it to bypass the petition system? Probably. I would. Isn't that a good thing in a way? Look at it this way; one of the most active and dedicated alliances in Eve has a way of getting bug reports straight to the top without them getting lost in transit or red tape. BoB aren't exactly the sort of alliance who petition for reimbursements on every ship they lose either, so I very much doubt (though I have no proof either way, just my own experience of BoB members' overall character as a former member) that CCP are getting reimbursement spam from BoB via MSN.
Daniella Althera	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:29:00 - [4328] Originally by: Mud Pandemonium Using one of the commands to appear at a player location the ISD member accidently bumped ONE dread, was this right? Nope, was this a mistake? Indeed it was, is it his fault? Yes and no, yes that he used the command knowing where it would land him, no because he didn't design the command and to be honest I doubt CCP has given commands for specific distances from the target player. However I could be wrong about this. Important thing to note is that it was a dread in SIEGE MODE which generally has one related penalty: -100% to maximum velocity. This means it can't move at all making it as solid and hard to bump as an outpost.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:35:00 - [4329] Originally by: DB Preacher You're not getting it Malachon. I don't care. I'll play until they take the servers down, then I'll play something else. If they take the servers down tomoz, I will stop playing tomoz. My life won't be destroyed, I won't curl up in a ball and cry myself to sleep everynight. I'll simply play something else as all good things come to an end eventually. That's why I don't give "pause" for the banal discussions in here. 165 pages of aimless garbage resulting in nothing. dbp Hi dbp. Have you ever used (or are still using) out-of-game communication methods (except fanfest) to chat with CCP employees? Thanks.
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:18:00 - [4330] Edited by: Itzena on 29/05/2007 17:17:40 Originally by: DB Preacher You're not getting it Malachon. I don't care. I'll play until they take the servers down, then I'll play something else. If they take the servers down tomoz, I will stop playing tomoz. My life won't be destroyed, I won't curl up in a ball and cry myself to sleep everynight. I'll simply play something else as all good things come to an end eventually. That's why I don't give "pause" for the banal discussions in here. 165 pages of aimless garbage resulting in nothing. dbp Wait, wait, wait. Wait. Wait. What? You're placing the 'lol internet spaceships' card? -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:32:00 - [4331] By applying censure in this forum about this grave subject, CCP gives us little choice but to go to other places to be heard. As Slashdot, Digg and PCGamer forums. It is not a very wise thing to do. But then again not much wisdom was shown here till now...
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:37:00 - [4332] Originally by: Richard Johannson Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: MissileRus Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner does that make you get to be so rude or is it because your in bob? (Head of Tournament Management a BoB member!) I'd rather be mining, or so many other things, but I can't go into 0.0 without having to watch my back, and another thing, how come when I'm in the system of my own corp one of your guys shows up and within 30 seconds is in the belt and targetting me no matter which belt I'm in, half the time I'm barely warping out as they warp into that belt. That in and of itself is damn fishy, they using the ISD TP commands or something?
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:41:00 - [4333] Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 29/05/2007 17:41:49 Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Originally by: Richard Johannson Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: MissileRus Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner does that make you get to be so rude or is it because your in bob? (Head of Tournament Management a BoB member!) I'd rather be mining, or so many other things, but I can't go into 0.0 without having to watch my back, and another thing, how come when I'm in the system of my own corp one of your guys shows up and within 30 seconds is in the belt and targetting me no matter which belt I'm in, half the time I'm barely warping out as they warp into that belt. That in and of itself is damn fishy, they using the ISD TP commands or something? Are you kidding me? There are a lot of things wrong here, but BoB is not using ISD hacks to kill your damn Procurer. What is WRONG with you?
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:43:00 - [4334] Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 17:44:45 Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 17:43:15 Actually it's warping in right on top of my raven, the one time I managed to get away before they nailed me I was in a drake, I don't mine in low sec, you need a guard for that, and with the way BoB have been that's not safe unless you pay their blackmail. What's even worse is it's not even safe then because they can change their minds and nail you anyway after you've paid them and they don't have the honor to honor their contracts with people
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:46:00 - [4335] Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 17:43:15 Actually it's warping in right on top of my raven, the one time I managed to get away before they nailed me I was in a drake, I don't mine in low sec, you need a guard for that, and with the way BoB have been that's not safe unless you pay their blackmail You are insane, and you make everyone who's genuinely concerned here look bad. Why are you mining in BoB space if you're not a blue to them?
Mystikos Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:48:00 - [4336] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 29/05/2007 17:41:49 Are you kidding me? There are a lot of things wrong here, but BoB is not using ISD hacks to kill your damn Procurer. What is WRONG with you? Yeah, they're also not using unofficial channels to get things done their way with the devs. They're not making loads of isk off of T2 BPOs obtained illegally. They're not pushing around innocent ISD and CCP employees. Have you read some of the posts made here and elsewhere? Claims of players using admin commands to scout territory and grab the best mining roids are prevalent. At this point, until CCP and/or BoB comes clean, nothing can be ruled out. -------------------------------- Fix Eve -- Disband BoB
Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:48:00 - [4337] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 17:43:15 Actually it's warping in right on top of my raven, the one time I managed to get away before they nailed me I was in a drake, I don't mine in low sec, you need a guard for that, and with the way BoB have been that's not safe unless you pay their blackmail You are insane, and you make everyone who's genuinely concerned here look bad. Why are you mining in BoB space if you're not a blue to them? That's just it, I'm mining in IAC space, when I was, and I am a member of IAC, I get attacked by BoB there, it's not their teritory, and I'm not safe
Azuraito Caldari Infestation.	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:48:00 - [4338] Edited by: Azuraito on 29/05/2007 17:47:54 damn forum quote's are screwed now, CCP fix the damn forums
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:50:00 - [4339] Originally by: Xandria Foreman Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 17:43:15 Actually it's warping in right on top of my raven, the one time I managed to get away before they nailed me I was in a drake, I don't mine in low sec, you need a guard for that, and with the way BoB have been that's not safe unless you pay their blackmail You are insane, and you make everyone who's genuinely concerned here look bad. Why are you mining in BoB space if you're not a blue to them? That's just it, I'm mining in IAC space, when I was, and I am a member of IAC, I get attacked by BoB there, it's not their teritory, and I'm not safe Are you seriously trying to drag your corporation not being able to defend you from BoB in game into a discussion of corruption and right and wrong? This has nothing to do with anything!! What is wrong with you! Move back to Empire if you can't fight them- just because thye seem to have inappropriate Dev contacts doesn't mean that they're invincible in game.
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:51:00 - [4340] Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 17:52:35 your off topic though, my point is they find me in any belt I'm in within 30 seconds of entering the system, it takes a full minute or more just to scan for person locations with a drone, and they find me in half that time. I also know people who have paid their little ransom to mine and they've been blasted by members of BoB after they paid out the isk. This is why I'm saying that even there they show no honor
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:54:00 - [4341] Originally by: Oliandra Friginia your off topic though, my point is they find me in any belt I'm in within 30 seconds of entering the system, it takes a full minute or more just to scan for person locations with a drone, and they find me in half that time Someone can scan a system with a probe in something like 24 seconds with perfect skills. If they know the layout of the system, they even have a good chance to nail you just using the directional scanner, and be even faster. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:56:00 - [4342] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 17:43:15 Actually it's warping in right on top of my raven, the one time I managed to get away before they nailed me I was in a drake, I don't mine in low sec, you need a guard for that, and with the way BoB have been that's not safe unless you pay their blackmail You are insane, and you make everyone who's genuinely concerned here look bad. Why are you mining in BoB space if you're not a blue to them? There's no problem with being somewhere, anywhere in eve, unless your isd and bob call their gm friends ^^, basically, nowhere in the EULA does it state that you're not allowed to enter bob space without their consent. The question you should ask yourself is how much of what he/she said is true, if bob do use isd teleport commands then it's ............................... really bad. - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait: Dude. True amarr tank shields!
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:57:00 - [4343] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Oliandra Friginia your off topic though, my point is they find me in any belt I'm in within 30 seconds of entering the system, it takes a full minute or more just to scan for person locations with a drone, and they find me in half that time Someone can scan a system with a probe in something like 24 seconds with perfect skills. If they know the layout of the system, they even have a good chance to nail you just using the directional scanner, and be even faster. The point is their in that belt almost as soon as they show up in local, before I have a chance to do anything, including warp out. and I initiate warp the moment I see them in local
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:57:00 - [4344] Originally by: Etho Demerzel By applying censure in this forum about this grave subject, CCP gives us little choice but to go to other places to be heard. As Slashdot, Digg and PCGamer forums. It is not a very wise thing to do. But then again not much wisdom was shown here till now... You attempts at blackmail are only good for another lollercaust, you're too funny.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:00:00 - [4345] Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 17:43:15 Actually it's warping in right on top of my raven, the one time I managed to get away before they nailed me I was in a drake, I don't mine in low sec, you need a guard for that, and with the way BoB have been that's not safe unless you pay their blackmail You are insane, and you make everyone who's genuinely concerned here look bad. Why are you mining in BoB space if you're not a blue to them? There's no problem with being somewhere, anywhere in eve, unless your isd and bob call their gm friends ^^, basically, nowhere in the EULA does it state that you're not allowed to enter bob space without their consent. The question you should ask yourself is how much of what he/she said is true, if bob do use isd teleport commands then it's ............................... really bad. The more you're credulous about ******** bullcrap like this, the easier it is for BoB to deflect interest from the issues that might be of real concern.
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:01:00 - [4346] Originally by: Solasta Kovacs Edited by: Solasta Kovacs on 29/05/2007 12:52:11 Edited by: Solasta Kovacs on 29/05/2007 12:50:55 QUOTE- "That's partly what really annoys me about these threads. BoB were the ones linked to the initial dev misconduct issue, so the popular bandwagon is to blame BoB for any issues coming up in Eve, through dubious evidence at best. Node crash? Blame BoB. Your fleet gets destroyed by BoB? They must be cheating. Server lagging? Must be BoB again. I've seen that crap repeated ad nauseum across every board. I used to think the BoB forum crew were bad, but having seen GS and co lately I've thought again." (sorry forgot to quote it...) -------- I agree entirely (yeah yeah I know I'm biased etc). The instant assumption and insinuation by many goons and friends was - Sharkbait gets involved with pos= must be sinister= must be helping BOB. The fact that they lumped such a spurious allegation in with other issues and chose to wait and spam the forums with them all at the same time, rather than raising them in the proper manner at the time, tells us much about their motives and intentions. All that from one innocent and minor aspect of the very well respected sharkbait doing his damned job! Its absurd- and frankly libellous insofar as Sharkbait is concerned. As for the idea that no one else in the game has contacts at CCP- thats nonsensical. I can think of one straight away who has those sorts of contacts. It was well known- and he wasn't a member of any BOB friendly alliance... If the BOB defense is "we arent the only ones who have backchannels to the DEV's so quit complaining"... Then the game is even MORE BROKEN then most of us fear. And therein lies the problem with how CCP is running things. The backchannels, private relationships, old-boys network, type feel that this conveys is very discouraging to the VAST sum of the community that quite simply doesnt have this access. If its not just BOB, and if other people, alliances etc are regularly having back-chats with the DEV's then the problem is several times worse then it initially appears. This "others have it" isnt a defense its actually the begining of what could be an even worse problem.
Constable Detritus PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:03:00 - [4347] Edited by: Constable Detritus on 29/05/2007 18:04:39 Edited by: Constable Detritus on 29/05/2007 18:03:21 Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Oliandra Friginia your off topic though, my point is they find me in any belt I'm in within 30 seconds of entering the system, it takes a full minute or more just to scan for person locations with a drone, and they find me in half that time Someone can scan a system with a probe in something like 24 seconds with perfect skills. If they know the layout of the system, they even have a good chance to nail you just using the directional scanner, and be even faster. The point is their in that belt almost as soon as they show up in local, before I have a chance to do anything, including warp out. and I initiate warp the moment I see them in local What Malachon said. If they know the system's layout, it takes about 15s to find someone in a belt just with the directional scanner, especially if all belts are within scanrange of a single spot in the system. I think you are just acting as Advocatus Diaboli (I thinks it is the appropriate term). EDIT: check local every 0.3 seconds, that might keep you alive. 2nd EDIT: typo ______________________________________ Repent, my sig is nigh! Oh, and btw, I am AntiBob
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:03:00 - [4348] I totally agree, however it's one more concern I have and the reason I've actually been very vocal in this forum. after hearing and seeing everything else I simply wonder if anyone else has noticed this same thing happen to them? If os is it not one more thing on top of everything else to be comcerned about? and just how do these people seem to warp within 1 meter of my ship when they do suddenly pop up right next to me without hitting me I might add? I've lsot two ravens over that, it's the reason I'm staying in high sec pretty much right now and doing nothign but training battle skills
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:06:00 - [4349] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 17:43:15 Actually it's warping in right on top of my raven, the one time I managed to get away before they nailed me I was in a drake, I don't mine in low sec, you need a guard for that, and with the way BoB have been that's not safe unless you pay their blackmail You are insane, and you make everyone who's genuinely concerned here look bad. Why are you mining in BoB space if you're not a blue to them? There's no problem with being somewhere, anywhere in eve, unless your isd and bob call their gm friends ^^, basically, nowhere in the EULA does it state that you're not allowed to enter bob space without their consent. The question you should ask yourself is how much of what he/she said is true, if bob do use isd teleport commands then it's ............................... really bad. The more you're credulous about ****** bullcrap like this, the easier it is for BoB to deflect interest from the issues that might be of real concern. True, and I'm not, but since the devs seem to have stopped from reading this thread at page 50 or so, it will make no difference in the end. Also i just skip most of the BoB replies, history has proved them to be compromised only of flames and various degrees of trolling. - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait*: Dude. True amarr tank shields!*
Constable Detritus PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:09:00 - [4350] Originally by: Oliandra Friginia I totally agree, however it's one more concern I have and the reason I've actually been very vocal in this forum. after hearing and seeing everything else I simply wonder if anyone else has noticed this same thing happen to them? If os is it not one more thing on top of everything else to be comcerned about? and just how do these people seem to warp within 1 meter of my ship when they do suddenly pop up right next to me without hitting me I might add? I've lsot two ravens over that, it's the reason I'm staying in high sec pretty much right now and doing nothign but training battle skills What you are implying is that DEV/GM commands work on regular playing accounts. If that's the case... ______________________________________ Repent, my sig is nigh! Oh, and btw, I am AntiBob
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:12:00 - [4351] Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 18:16:06 My real question is, why does it seem like such commands may be working on BoB ships? I use the word MAY here because it could just be something else entirely, I have no idea, but for the same pilot to find me three times in less then a minute in three seperate belts spread out across an entire solar system that's not even in their stomping grounds rather smacks of bad fish. Once, chance. Twice, coincidence, three times, shows a definate pattern, and one I don't like....
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Lords Of Amber	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:21:00 - [4352] And almost forgot again. Hello CCP. Would you be so kind to tell us why is it taking so long to get answers about ISD/MSN issue? As per your own FAQ ( linky ) : "10.5 But havenÆt there been allegations of abuse of power by the volunteers? Allegations, yes, but upon investigation, nearly all of these cases are proven to be false. To those outside ISD, the program is mysterious and the object of frequent misconceptions about what the volunteers can and cannot do. These misconceptions make the volunteers an easy target. We take accusations of abuse of power or other wrongdoing by the volunteers very seriously and investigate each thoroughly. On the rare occasion when a volunteer has broken the rules, he has been swiftly dismissed." Considering ISD reporter was swiftly dismissed, we assume CCP has already detailed report (because it has been already investigated thoroughly), and there is no need to keep details from that report away from us. Thank you.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:21:00 - [4353] Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 18:16:06 My real question is, why does it seem like such commands may be working on BoB ships? I use the word MAY here because it could just be something else entirely, I have no idea, but for the same pilot to find me three times in less then a minute in three seperate belts spread out across an entire solar system that's not even in their stomping grounds rather smacks of bad fish. Once, chance. Twice, coincidence, three times, shows a definate pattern, and one I don't like.... There's no chance of that. Shut up. No one cares about your stinking Drakes. You got scanned out and killed because you're a bad player, not because of anything like this. Are you a BoB alt trying to make everyone else look even dumber? Because it's working.
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:24:00 - [4354] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 18:16:06 My real question is, why does it seem like such commands may be working on BoB ships? I use the word MAY here because it could just be something else entirely, I have no idea, but for the same pilot to find me three times in less then a minute in three seperate belts spread out across an entire solar system that's not even in their stomping grounds rather smacks of bad fish. Once, chance. Twice, coincidence, three times, shows a definate pattern, and one I don't like.... There's no chance of that. Shut up. No one cares about your stinking Drakes. You got scanned out and killed because you're a bad player, not because of anything like this. Are you a BoB alt trying to make everyone else look even dumber? Because it's working. Did I hit a nerve asking about this, I didn't bother to mention how their shields almost instantly went back to max, along with their armor, or their sructure as I was actually about to win the fight, I figured since peopel covered that sort of thing already I'd keep my mouth shut, but since you want a can of worms....
Constable Detritus PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:27:00 - [4355] Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 18:16:06 My real question is, why does it seem like such commands may be working on BoB ships? I use the word MAY here because it could just be something else entirely, I have no idea, but for the same pilot to find me three times in less then a minute in three seperate belts spread out across an entire solar system that's not even in their stomping grounds rather smacks of bad fish. Once, chance. Twice, coincidence, three times, shows a definate pattern, and one I don't like.... There's no chance of that. Shut up. No one cares about your stinking Drakes. You got scanned out and killed because you're a bad player, not because of anything like this. Are you a BoB alt trying to make everyone else look even dumber? Because it's working. Did I hit a nerve asking about this, I didn't bother to mention how their shields almost instantly went back to max, along with their armor, or their sructure as I was actually about to win the fight, I figured since peopel covered that sort of thing already I'd keep my mouth shut, but since you want a can of worms.... Proof or STFU ______________________________________ Repent, my sig is nigh! Oh, and btw, I am AntiBob
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:28:00 - [4356] Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 18:16:06 My real question is, why does it seem like such commands may be working on BoB ships? I use the word MAY here because it could just be something else entirely, I have no idea, but for the same pilot to find me three times in less then a minute in three seperate belts spread out across an entire solar system that's not even in their stomping grounds rather smacks of bad fish. Once, chance. Twice, coincidence, three times, shows a definate pattern, and one I don't like.... There's no chance of that. Shut up. No one cares about your stinking Drakes. You got scanned out and killed because you're a bad player, not because of anything like this. Are you a BoB alt trying to make everyone else look even dumber? Because it's working. Did I hit a nerve asking about this, I didn't bother to mention how their shields almost instantly went back to max, along with their armor, or their sructure as I was actually about to win the fight, I figured since peopel covered that sort of thing already I'd keep my mouth shut, but since you want a can of worms.... Review the thread and you'll see that I've been fairly anti- BoB the whole time. Your accusations that BoB scanning you out while you were at war with them was somehow unusual and therefore must mean they have DEV tools is mindnumbingly stupid to a degree that hasn't been seen in the thread yet. You have said the stupidest thing so far in this monumentally stupid thread. Everyone is laughing at you, on both sides. Everyone on BoB's side is using this to think to themselves, "Yeah, see? They're all silly kids who have no idea what they're talking about." You whining about losing your petty assets because of your own bad playing is just...sooo...stupid.
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:30:00 - [4357] I gave you proof, I'm the pilot it happened to, you want more proof, then ask yourself this. How does a raven go from still having shields to suddenly, pop? Because both times I still had shields just barely when I got them into structure, the first time the bith with their stuff all poping back to max didn't happen and I'll admit, I think it was a fair kill, but the second time I had gotten my shield skills to max, and I was doing a damn good job of defense. you can't go from having shields to pop in one hit, not from a BC, and they were in a BC both times I did engage them.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:32:00 - [4358] Originally by: Oliandra Friginia I gave you proof, I'm the pilot it happened to, you want more proof, then ask yourself this. How does a raven go from still having shields to suddenly, pop? Because both times I still had shields just barely when I got them into structure, the first time the bith with their stuff all poping back to max didn't happen and I'll admit, I think it was a fair kill, but the second time I had gotten my shield skills to max, and I was doing a damn good job of defense. you can't go from having shields to pop in one hit, not from a BC, and they were in a BC both times I did engage them. You're a BoB alt
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:33:00 - [4359] Edited by: Cyberman Mastermind on 29/05/2007 18:32:25 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Everyone is laughing at you Surely not everyone. Some will laugh at you, for your rather childish behavior. I know I am. Oliandra Friginia may be accusing BoB of ridiculous things, but you¦re merely insulting for no reason.
Mister Spanky Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:34:00 - [4360] Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 18:16:06 My real question is, why does it seem like such commands may be working on BoB ships? I use the word MAY here because it could just be something else entirely, I have no idea, but for the same pilot to find me three times in less then a minute in three seperate belts spread out across an entire solar system that's not even in their stomping grounds rather smacks of bad fish. Once, chance. Twice, coincidence, three times, shows a definate pattern, and one I don't like.... There's no chance of that. Shut up. No one cares about your stinking Drakes. You got scanned out and killed because you're a bad player, not because of anything like this. Are you a BoB alt trying to make everyone else look even dumber? Because it's working. Did I hit a nerve asking about this, I didn't bother to mention how their shields almost instantly went back to max, along with their armor, or their sructure as I was actually about to win the fight, I figured since peopel covered that sort of thing already I'd keep my mouth shut, but since you want a can of worms.... Bob use a lot of remote repping set-ups in their gangs. They probably staged the repping for the last possible moment, purely for dramatic effect. BoB are very good players and can easily probe you down in seconds, especially if they are using staggered, system wide scans. Also, the ISD guy who mentioned using tools to warp gang members to enemy ships has posted another message following that to say that he never intended to imply that BoB (or anyone else) ever actually did that. He just meant that it was possible. I feel weird defending BoB but it's important that we stick to the issues at hand and not get distracted by stuff like this.
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:34:00 - [4361] Originally by: Oliandra Friginia I gave you proof, I'm the pilot it happened to, you want more proof, then ask yourself this. How does a raven go from still having shields to suddenly, pop? Because both times I still had shields just barely when I got them into structure, the first time the bith with their stuff all poping back to max didn't happen and I'll admit, I think it was a fair kill, but the second time I had gotten my shield skills to max, and I was doing a damn good job of defense. you can't go from having shields to pop in one hit, not from a BC, and they were in a BC both times I did engage them. Ok then, petition it... i give you an odd 3% chance of getting your raven / drake back and CCP banning a random ISD black sheep / cannon fodder. - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait: Dude. True amarr tank shields!
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:34:00 - [4362] no, I have nothing to do with BoB and it's because of the petty attacks they do, both on boards and in game. I was just asking a question, has anyone else had a member of BoB warp in right on top of them in an area that wasn't their area, I didn't bring the rest out until someone decided to slander me.
Malloc Memrel	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:35:00 - [4363] Edited by: Malloc Memrel on 29/05/2007 18:35:34 Originally by: Death Embodied CCP Ark, after reading this stuff all weekend at least one thing has become glaringly obvious and that is that if there really is nothing untoward going on you guys have some of the lamest customer relations skills, tools and procedures in the history of commercial endeavor. With all due deference - and in the spirit of constructive criticism - your posts in this thread are a decent example, some of which are dismissive in tone. Your initial post dismissed this issue saying that the corp had received an in game e-mail notice upon the GM leaving, but they get a notice when anyone leaves. If some outside unknown party unilaterally joins, makes himself a director, stays a few minutes, then leaves, obviously more than the in game 'so-and-so left the corp' e-mail is required to explain that. But obviously you guys know that, as later when its pointed out, you tell us that a corrective action change in procedure has been adopted. Yet even though that is the foundation of the complaint you didn't explain that in your initial post. Extremely poor customer communication. After all, CCP had taken action to eliminate the possibility of future occurances and you didn't tell your customers that critical fact on the front end. I'd wager that a large number of people posting here have had pettitions disappear in a puff of smoke. Even I have had that experience - multiple times. That makes your claim that pettitions cannot be deleted, that that is impossible, seem false at first. The only other explanation is that pettitions can be resolved but CCP sometimes resolves and closes pettitions without any notice to the original pettitioner. And as a decades long customer service manager I will respectfully submit to you that THAT is extremely poor customer relations procedure. Even if you guys just have a canned type response that is cut and pasted into an e-mail you should always respond to requests from your cutomers. That, combined with the forum mods deleting complaints from customers in the forums that may or may not be valid, leads people to suspect that something untoward is going on. Far better than deleting those posts would be to simply lock them with a brief comment explaining why. Again, having been reading this stuff all weekend as an uninvolved 3rd party it seems possible to me that CCP hasn't actually done anything wrong. That you guys really DON'T have your thumb on the scale for BoB, that you really are simply intervening to correct issues and/or bugs unrelated to any nefarious purpose. Unfortunately if that is true it is not the impression you guys have left with a lot of your customers and I'd largely point at CCP's collective communications skills and/or techniques and attitude towards its customers as the culprit. I'm quoting this from the Sharkbait thread because I believe it's the root of the problem. While I don't believe the allegations of developer impropriety are as true as they're claimed to be (Albeit possibly a little true, since there's precedent) there is nonetheless the perception of it, and in a customer-focused business that's almost as bad. If someone walked into a bank with a ski mask and a rifle, they could be totally innocuous- if you were in Minnesota at the time and he was stopping in on his way from a winter hunting trip, say- but it would still quicken a few pulses regardless. CCP needs to remove those things which foster the appearance of impropriety- making anonymous developer accounts, severing professional contact with customers inside the game, and so forth. Even if there's nothing wrong here and CCP is exonerated of all wrongdoing, this whole scenario is still a failure for them as a company because, bar none, this is not what good customer service looks like.
Oliandra Friginia	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:39:00 - [4364] Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 18:40:25 Thanks Spanky, you pretty much covered my concern, the only reason I spoke up about it si because nobody had mentioned such things, and I was wondering if it was chance, or if I just didn't fully understand scanning yet. In either case though that stuff about their structure, armor, and shields all going to max as I was about to kill them, and my ship going pop in the second encounter I had while I was in a raven and they were in a BC is still very much true, and the reason I'm concerned about the entire thing. At the time I went pop I had a damage control unit active, was still in shields and had no armor damage, or structure damage, I still don't understand how I could have suddenly gone pop, while their ship insta healed right before I went pop? But, I wanted to find out about the provability of someoen hitting the belt before I could warp first.
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:40:00 - [4365] This game will not be cheat proof until devs are taken out of game. All devs affiliated past or present with an alliance must lose their job, because of ccp's mistake. CCP what is the point in playing a game, where devs can cheat so EASILY. BoB has abused the system, and this is the only way to stop it, BoB has show they have no respect for a cheat-free atmosphere. You live and you learn.
Feynmen Open Concepts	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:44:00 - [4366] I agree with Malloc, regardless of what did or did not actually happen, CCP and the Player Community would both benefit if anything that even just appeared to be unethical was terminated. And in the future, all avoidance of the whole smoke-and-mirrors bit would help greatly to regain any lost trust from the Player Community. There, 169 pages of crap dealt with. "I don't think anyone really understands Quantum Mechanics." -Quantum Physicist Richard Feynmen
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:47:00 - [4367] Originally by: Feynmen I agree with Malloc, regardless of what did or did not actually happen, CCP and the Player Community would both benefit if anything that even just appeared to be unethical was terminated. And in the future, all avoidance of the whole smoke-and-mirrors bit would help greatly to regain any lost trust from the Player Community. There, 169 pages of crap dealt with. you CANNOT avoid dev cheating with ccp's system. It promotes cheating, because it is soooo easy.
Mister Spanky Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:48:00 - [4368] Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 18:40:25 Thanks Spanky, you pretty much covered my concern, the only reason I spoke up about it si because nobody had mentioned such things, and I was wondering if it was chance, or if I just didn't fully understand scanning yet. In either case though that stuff about their structure, armor, and shields all going to max as I was about to kill them, and my ship going pop in the second encounter I had while I was in a raven and they were in a BC is still very much true, and the reason I'm concerned about the entire thing. At the time I went pop I had a damage control unit active, was still in shields and had no armor damage, or structure damage, I still don't understand how I could have suddenly gone pop, while their ship insta healed right before I went pop? But, I wanted to find out about the provability of someoen hitting the belt before I could warp first. No problem Friginia. I wonder if you were experiencing any lag at the time? A sudden frame rate drop could mean that you were taking damage that you couldn't see while BoB were repping theirs, and then when the server / client caught back up again it would have precisely the effect you describe - your ship insta-pops and BoB are fully healed.
Deus Ex'Machina Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:52:00 - [4369] Originally by: MehTheTrader This game will not be cheat proof until devs are taken out of game. All devs affiliated past or present with an alliance must lose their job, because of ccp's mistake. CCP what is the point in playing a game, where devs can cheat so EASILY. BoB has abused the system, and this is the only way to stop it, BoB has show they have no respect for a cheat-free atmosphere. You live and you learn. Devs acusable of playing the game, taking sides and eventually cheating ( be it borderline or in major doses ) will not stand up and i say " i'm sorry, i quit, it was stoopid of me to take sides " but will just keep quiet hoping that the whole thing will just pass over on its own. And I presume it will, along with EVE. Imo they should stick to the testserver or play on tq when at work and only in groups and supervised. - Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER! Sharkbait: Dude. True amarr tank shields!
Feynmen Open Concepts	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:52:00 - [4370] Originally by: MehTheTrader you CANNOT avoid dev cheating with ccp's system. It promotes cheating, because it is soooo easy. Ok, did you even read my post? I would think the term "unethical" would cover cheating. So termination of that would naturally include changing the system to effectively nerf dev cheating. "I don't think anyone really understands Quantum Mechanics." -Quantum Physicist Richard Feynmen
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:55:00 - [4371] Originally by: Feynmen Originally by: MehTheTrader you CANNOT avoid dev cheating with ccp's system. It promotes cheating, because it is soooo easy. Ok, did you even read my post? I would think the term "unethical" would cover cheating. So termination of that would naturally include changing the system to effectively nerf dev cheating. You wrote that anything that seemed "unethical" to be forgetten about and move on. Was hard to understand your poetic words. But thats what i got. And no you cannot move on, shame on you once, shame on me twice.
Bozse Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:56:00 - [4372] Originally by: VInanath Diesel You cannot justify wrong doing by pointing @ ALLEGED wrong doing. A post like that in a thread like this isn't ironic at all Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:00:00 - [4373] Originally by: Bozse Originally by: VInanath Diesel You cannot justify wrong doing by pointing @ ALLEGED wrong doing. A post like that in a thread like this isn't ironic at all Once again bob has no integrity, and talk smack, and dont stick to real issue. Dont post your crap here please.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:13:00 - [4374] Originally by: MehTheTrader no integrity ...check Quote: talk smack ...check Quote: dont stick to real issue aaaand,...check. [center] Old blog
Malloc Memrel	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:51:00 - [4375] By way of anecdote since I ran out of room last post, we used to joke about an associate of mine at Blizzard having "Magic Dice". As is common in large dungeon crawls, the best loot would be "rolled" for by asking the system's random number generator for a number between one and a hundred, with the highest roller being allowed to take the most coveted items. This employee would almost always win the rolls. It didn't matter if the next highest roll was nine or ninety, he'd win it most of the time. When he played on the public servers, his guildmates gave him good-natured grief about it- "Argh, you lucky son of a~!"- but they just chalked it up to him being really lucky, as some people simply are. Think, for a second, what their reaction would be if they knew he was a developer? Would it be so easy to pass his consistent good fortune off with the knowledge that he knows the people who designed the random number generator? Would it be impossible to concieve that he knew, somehow, how to fix the dice? Even if it was the farthest thing from the truth, there'd be the suspicion, and it wouldn't be unreasonable, which is why he's never told anyone outside the company anything about his character, his guild, anything, ever. His guildmates have no reason to suspect him because they have no idea they're playing with a Blizzard employee. Nobody ever has any idea that they're playing with Blizzard employees, not even to each other. I've heard of Blizzard people who went to guild meets incognito and discovered that their co-workers have been right there in their guild with them for months and months without even realizing it, so total was the secrecy. I think EVE as a whole needs a new set of blinders put on it, one that obscures all vision between the customer side of the line and the corporate side of the line. Mixing the two is a pandora's box that has, is, and will inevitably lead to more public outcries over accusations of impropriety which ultimately hurt the company as a whole. I don't know how things are in Europe, but stateside the video game industry is one big incestuous family where everybody knows everybody else. How many times will "EVE Scandal!" have to appear on the front page of Slashdot before the company becomes a Resume' Stain? We're at twice, and that's pushing it already.
Jonas Vance Orion's Nebula	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:12:00 - [4376] Originally by: Malloc Memrel By way of anecdote since I ran out of room last post, we used to joke about an associate of mine at Blizzard having "Magic Dice". As is common in large dungeon crawls, the best loot would be "rolled" for by asking the system's random number generator for a number between one and a hundred, with the highest roller being allowed to take the most coveted items. This employee would almost always win the rolls. It didn't matter if the next highest roll was nine or ninety, he'd win it most of the time. When he played on the public servers, his guildmates gave him good-natured grief about it- "Argh, you lucky son of a~!"- but they just chalked it up to him being really lucky, as some people simply are. Think, for a second, what their reaction would be if they knew he was a developer? Would it be so easy to pass his consistent good fortune off with the knowledge that he knows the people who designed the random number generator? Would it be impossible to concieve that he knew, somehow, how to fix the dice? Even if it was the farthest thing from the truth, there'd be the suspicion, and it wouldn't be unreasonable, which is why he's never told anyone outside the company anything about his character, his guild, anything, ever. His guildmates have no reason to suspect him because they have no idea they're playing with a Blizzard employee. Nobody ever has any idea that they're playing with Blizzard employees, not even to each other. I've heard of Blizzard people who went to guild meets incognito and discovered that their co-workers have been right there in their guild with them for months and months without even realizing it, so total was the secrecy. I think EVE as a whole needs a new set of blinders put on it, one that obscures all vision between the customer side of the line and the corporate side of the line. Mixing the two is a pandora's box that has, is, and will inevitably lead to more public outcries over accusations of impropriety which ultimately hurt the company as a whole. I don't know how things are in Europe, but stateside the video game industry is one big incestuous family where everybody knows everybody else. How many times will "EVE Scandal!" have to appear on the front page of Slashdot before the company becomes a Resume' Stain? We're at twice, and that's pushing it already. /signed, signed and SIGNED You sir, win this thread.
ssorion Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:20:00 - [4377] Originally by: Feynmen There, 169 pages of crap dealt with. Hmmm, nope ? Most important matter (for me. I dont care about DS1 PoS, i dont care about event rigging - im not roleplayer) about BoB leadership having direct contacts of CCP DBA, and DBA doing them some favors, is still unresponded by CCP.
Tahmee Bhakeur	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:20:00 - [4378] Why should anyone that "looks" like a normal player have access to dev/gm tools? Shouldn't only designated CCP employees/characters have access to them? We've all seen CCP staffers on SiSi, but to have dev/gm's using player characters on TQ with access to dev tools just doesn't seem right at all regardless of which corp/alliance they are in. People who argue that it's necessary for DEV/GM's to play the game to know about it need to realize the only way for them to really do it is without their handy dandy wizardry. If the gods of EVE want to know how us mortals truly live, then they need to be stripped of their divinity and forced to live like us humble grinding mortals scraping out a meager existence.
Bi Tor	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:20:00 - [4379] Originally by: Mister Spanky Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 18:40:25 Thanks Spanky, you pretty much covered my concern, the only reason I spoke up about it si because nobody had mentioned such things, and I was wondering if it was chance, or if I just didn't fully understand scanning yet. In either case though that stuff about their structure, armor, and shields all going to max as I was about to kill them, and my ship going pop in the second encounter I had while I was in a raven and they were in a BC is still very much true, and the reason I'm concerned about the entire thing. At the time I went pop I had a damage control unit active, was still in shields and had no armor damage, or structure damage, I still don't understand how I could have suddenly gone pop, while their ship insta healed right before I went pop? But, I wanted to find out about the provability of someoen hitting the belt before I could warp first. No problem Friginia. I wonder if you were experiencing any lag at the time? A sudden frame rate drop could mean that you were taking damage that you couldn't see while BoB were repping theirs, and then when the server / client caught back up again it would have precisely the effect you describe - your ship insta-pops and BoB are fully healed. Concur, you suffered from lag death. Fairly simple. Sorry about your luck. I would petition it and see if you can get your ship back, not likely but you can try. If you need to you can Please don't troll. Thanks, Hango Bite Me! Bi`Tor
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:30:00 - [4380] Originally by: Tahmee Bhakeur Why should anyone that "looks" like a normal player have access to dev/gm tools? Shouldn't only designated CCP employees/characters have access to them? We've all seen CCP staffers on SiSi, but to have dev/gm's using player characters on TQ with access to dev tools just doesn't seem right at all regardless of which corp/alliance they are in. That's right, and well, hence they don't have normal indistuinghuisable characters that still have dev powers. They have normal chars like everyone else, and dev chars like noone else, on seperate accounts, all of which get logged and scrutinised. Quote: People who argue that it's necessary for DEV/GM's to play the game to know about it need to realize the only way for them to really do it is without their handy dandy wizardry. If the gods of EVE want to know how us mortals truly live, then they need to be stripped of their divinity and forced to live like us humble grinding mortals scraping out a meager existence. Also right, hence that's exactly what they do and always have done. [center] Old blog
Avrunath	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:29:00 - [4381] Yeah Right
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:34:00 - [4382] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Etho Demerzel By applying censure in this forum about this grave subject, CCP gives us little choice but to go to other places to be heard. As Slashdot, Digg and PCGamer forums. It is not a very wise thing to do. But then again not much wisdom was shown here till now... You attempts at blackmail are only good for another lollercaust, you're too funny. Lol. Its as much blackmail as in if I was telling them that walking over a subway rail can get you electrocuted. The story is already in all the important Internet gaming sites and forums. And even in places like Digg and Slashdot. Internet does not tolerate censure. Had they left things be discussed here it wouldn't have escalated that much. Now thanks to their own stupidity they are suffering the consequences. Even then if they tried to communicate with the community and were more transparent they could have somewhat controlled the damage. But noooo. It is much better t leave our outraged player base allienated and censure anythig that they don't like in the forums. In the top of that as a cherry in the icecream we have pearls like Kieron's comment in the previous incident telling people to leave. I sincerely don't know how they got here, but I am certainly sure Eve will be their last successful game. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:47:00 - [4383] Um,.... Guys.... Folks are on to the witch hunt thing. Just thought you might want to know. Quote: Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:53:00 - [4384] Thank you for quoting Kieron's pearl in your signature. I am sure he regrets everyday of having written this as it is the worst PR phrase I have ever seen in my life. It is saved in my files for posterity now. I will also use it as a signature. In every forum I post :D ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Hachun K'ar	Posted - 2007.05.29 22:10:00 - [4385] Hey I have an idea. Press this button.. that.. resets EVERYTHING. n00bs would leave and everything would be back to normal! Yayness for all!
Standard Deviation	Posted - 2007.05.29 22:17:00 - [4386] [qoute]Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs. The level of transparency sucks. Ill take some of keirons advice and take my money elsewhere. Capships online was becoming boring anyway. your lack of transparency breeds a lack of trust. 1. Dev joining corp at war, without notice. a bit strange, no? I would love to see the original petition he was responding too, also an explantion of the deleted ones. 2. rigged events...non issue for me, we all knew these things were rigged, the last one to take their heads out of the sand was you CCP 3. There's no need to flame, and there's no need to troll. Please try to remain civil. Thank you. -Hango 3> is also where the tinfoil hat comes into play. 50 dreads go down, when a mysterious cap is put on a system and no-one can jump in. Also rumors that something cooking in 1 array was stopped or moved to another.(it sounds stupid to believe that, but with the lack of transparancy you start believing in stupid rumors like that) Bowling once an exploit, deemed not an exploit, after someone with a known direct line to you is cought on video doing it.
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:27:00 - [4387] CCP crapped up big time on this.. If there ever will be an answere to the MSN-scandal it will be very interesting to read. It will be even more interesting to see what will happen to those involved. We allready know it has been used to unfair advantages but will the investigation not yield the information needed for proper action. My guess is it wont. Promises will be made, things will get less transparent and the soup will keep on boiling behind the iron curtain. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Krumpit Caldari Madness of Crowds	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:27:00 - [4388] Changed my mind about the football / referees analogy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Serie_A_scandal "The teams have been accused of rigging games by selecting favourable referees." "Luciano Moggi: 5 year ban from football, with a further recommendation to the FIGC president that he be banned for life from membership of the FIGC at any level." The day before the judgements were announced, Italy had paraded the World Cup in Rome. When the judgements hit the press the next day, the World Cup win was almost forgotten, and certainly devalued. The false dichotomy of "If you don't like it, quit", sadly, seems almost endorsed by that Kieron quote. It is utterly false to say that there are only two options open to any player, indeed, any "consumer" if that's how you choose to view yourself. When a rational consumer doensn't like some aspect of a product they have used for years - they complain, and assume that their complaint will be taken seriously. These statements are logically inconsistent: (1) "Someone bumped our dreads, we thought something was wrong so we complained" (2) "If you see something you don't like in Eve - don't complain, just quit."
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:49:00 - [4389] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Oliandra Friginia Edited by: Oliandra Friginia on 29/05/2007 18:16:06 My real question is, why does it seem like such commands may be working on BoB ships? I use the word MAY here because it could just be something else entirely, I have no idea, but for the same pilot to find me three times in less then a minute in three seperate belts spread out across an entire solar system that's not even in their stomping grounds rather smacks of bad fish. Once, chance. Twice, coincidence, three times, shows a definate pattern, and one I don't like.... There's no chance of that. Shut up. No one cares about your stinking Drakes. You got scanned out and killed because you're a bad player, not because of anything like this. Are you a BoB alt trying to make everyone else look even dumber? Because it's working. Did I hit a nerve asking about this, I didn't bother to mention how their shields almost instantly went back to max, along with their armor, or their sructure as I was actually about to win the fight, I figured since peopel covered that sort of thing already I'd keep my mouth shut, but since you want a can of worms.... Review the thread and you'll see that I've been fairly anti- BoB the whole time. Your accusations that BoB scanning you out while you were at war with them was somehow unusual and therefore must mean they have DEV tools is mindnumbingly stupid to a degree that hasn't been seen in the thread yet. You have said the stupidest thing so far in this monumentally stupid thread. Everyone is laughing at you, on both sides. Everyone on BoB's side is using this to think to themselves, "Yeah, see? They're all silly kids who have no idea what they're talking about." You whining about losing your petty assets because of your own bad playing is just...sooo...stupid. The only person i see, that is not prooving anything is you! - next minnie Outpost bpc me:5 available in 25 days -
Pseudothei	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:51:00 - [4390] Edited by: Pseudothei on 30/05/2007 01:20:14 Edited by: Pseudothei on 30/05/2007 00:04:24 Originally by: Krumpit The false dichotomy of "If you don't like it, quit", sadly, seems almost endorsed by that Kieron quote. It's not surprising, since thus far CCP haven't really shown they even understand the real issue. And yet, there are previous recorded cases where GM's have been ordered to cease friendly contacts with certain in-game alliances - and rightfully so IMO - on account of mere appearance, so I don't really get why BoB and Diana deserve to be the only ones allowed to remain with that privilege. [AnimalFarm]Some are more equal?[/AnimalFarm] vvvv :booya: :page170snypa: vvvv Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo
Mister Spanky Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:54:00 - [4391] Damn you Pseudothei that p170 Sniper was mine
Malashek Vatrii Furious Vendetta FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:56:00 - [4392] Edited by: Malashek Vatrii on 29/05/2007 23:55:40 p170 \o/ Over 5k replies and 330k views... impressive * * * * Iyay antway exysay imetay These views are mine, not my corps nor my alliances.. blahdy blah
Darkstar BP Caldari eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:56:00 - [4393] Originally by: fire 59 Unless i missed one, 2 of 4 accusation thingies have been cleared up so far and were proven groundless. Nah, nothing was proven, not even an attempt was made. A lot was asserted though. There is a difference.
Daveydweeb	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:59:00 - [4394] Originally by: Standard Deviation 1. Dev joining corp at war, without notice. a bit strange, no? I would love to see the original petition he was responding too, also an explantion of the deleted ones The issue here is not that Sharkbait might have been screwing with DS1, but that, when asked for a simple clarification, CCP responded with a stonewall when none was necessary. When acting as if you're in the wrong is the norm, there is something fundamentally wrong with your approach to public relations.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:04:00 - [4395] Edited by: Richard Johannson on 30/05/2007 00:52:12 Edited by: Richard Johannson on 30/05/2007 00:13:17 Edited by: Richard Johannson on 30/05/2007 00:07:40 Edited by: Richard Johannson on 30/05/2007 00:06:12 Qoute Throughout our history, there have been a handful of cases where our employees or members of our various volunteer and partner programs have taken advantage of the proprietary powers they are granted through access and knowledge. These cases have been investigated, prosecuted and judgment rendered. Usually the punishment has been quite simple: termination of employment. As of the beginning of January this year, we have been building up a special institution within our company similar to the Internal Affairs divisions of law enforcement agencies. For this team, we have assembled the most ardent hardliners in our ranks. They all fully understand the enormity of what they have accepted to do and we are certain that they will be able to shoulder this responsibility. It is no trivial thing when corruption takes place. In our case it's no different than the injustice of public servants in the real world feathering their own nests rather than ensuring the prosperity of the many. Living in a country of a comparable population as the world of EVE (Iceland only has 300,000 inhabitants), I sure know how it can feel when governance is not balanced and feeling powerless to stop it. I am certain that members of the EVE community are now going through similar emotions. I am sure that we all appreciate that it is no coincidence that Dante reserved the lowest level of Hell for "the worst of those who betrayed their benefactors." In our case, I would regard the EVE community as our benefactors. We are not the "gods" or "the masters" of EVE Online or the EVE community. We serve the community. You have entrusted us to sa*uard your hard work. End Quote http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=423 And do you know what is the best of it? This is a statement from a CCP public relation guy from Feb 2007 LOL, Well done!**
Mik Nostrebor Minmatar Tech 3 Hotsauce Limited	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:06:00 - [4396] Edited by: Mik Nostrebor on 30/05/2007 00:28:10 Look at it this way. A business man (CCP) is accused of murder and corruption. He is hauled in front of a judge and the judge asks him to launch an investigation into his own guilt. He goes away and promises to come back with an unbiased finding. He gets some employees in his own company to look into the issue and compile a report. He reviews the report and makes sure it has the right spin. He comes back to the judge and says, "I can find no evidence whatsoever of my guilt against all accusations". The judge says "Fine. You are not guilty; off you go" Issue finished. Justice is satisfied. I think that CCP needs to take some actions to indicate that they are taking all such issues seriously. What bothers me is that the whole ISD volunteer program is being called into question. It is unprofessional and it appears that it is not what you know but who you know that counts. I think that there is no co-incidence that ISD's senior staff is compromised by BoB members. *How odd is it that a Senior Goon is (was) only a lowly ISD reporter whereas there is clear evidence of BoB tampering in the affairs of ISD.** EDIT: oops - The chap is not a goon. My mistake. CCP needs to clean up ISD. It is not good for it to be seen as being run in a very bad and corrupt manner. To me it seems that ISD is at risk of being disbanded altogether which would be a bad thing for us players. After all, if this hoohar keeps up CCP will be looking for a scape goat and ISD is right up there in the line of fire. They need to make sure that NO BoB members (dev or otherwise) have direct personal access to senior ISD members and that ISD members remain anonymous to the devs. Only the CCP support managers have any business dealing with ISD at this level. It also means that none of the dev staff can actually be in ISD either except in publicly disclosed roles (eg Kieron). If I were in IA I would be making recommendations to that effect in an effort to remove any avenues of conflict of interest and possible corruption. So we should be lobbying CCP in the forums to reform ISD. EG: 1. Remove all devs from ISD except for support staff. 2. Remove dev access to ISD member identities 3. Initiate proper disciplinary procedures for ISD members and not arbitrary dismissal. 4. CCP Support staff who have access to ISD member information should not be allowed to have normal playing accounts on the live server. 5. RP GM staff should not ever have player accounts 6. Devs with player accounts cannot become involved in RP Events. 7. Devs with player accounts cannot be in senior roles in any Alliance or corp within an Alliance. They should be reminded that their player accounts are there mainly for gameplay testing purposes and not for personal fulfilment. 8. Devs with player accounts should be flagged clearly to to all other dev accounts, including their real identities. (Not flagged to normal players however) 9. All Dev accounts that are currently in BoB should be deleted, regardless of their involvment in the current debarcle. This should be done as a demonstration of the commitment of CCP to its players. 10. All player members in BoB who are also in the ISD program should have their ISD accounts suspended until they leave BoB or choose to leave the ISD program. 11. All ISD accounts should be recreated with different names to ensure anonymity . Those are my thoughts anyway.
Eric Black Caldari Tripocalyptic Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:06:00 - [4397] Edited by: Eric Black on 30/05/2007 00:43:35 Actually, I regularly see product contests, lotteries and such where family of the employees of the company in question are banned from participating. EVE may be a game, it is also a BUSINESS at the same time. Maybe time CCP started to act like that? How would it look if Manchester United had a direct line to the referees and organisers of the Premier League and other soccer teams did not? ------------------------------------------------------------ Um maybe you didnt notice but eve has no rl impact unlike the lotto etc you mentioned. Rl comparisons to games just dont work mate. No problem right, soccer is just a game...
Mister Spanky Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:10:00 - [4398] The ISD guy was not, is not, and has never been a Goon.
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:29:00 - [4399] Edited by: MehTheTrader on 30/05/2007 00:29:48 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Um,.... Guys.... Folks are on to the witch hunt thing. Just thought you might want to know. Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs. Kieron needs to be fired. He does not care about customer support. Is the business owner the same, selfish, like kieron, if so that is just ********. Can't believe I joined a game with cheating gm's, with selfish goals. Kieron please resign or something, you obviously don't care about community, only the money.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:32:00 - [4400] Originally by: Starfinder After a visit to the K mans site(you know the one we can't link here), I am becoming convinced CCP Arkanon is an empty suit. Either he has no power or his position is a sham to trick us into trusting CCP. If there was any fear of him or his position, we would not be here having this discussion today. CCP employeees would be toeing the line and Bod would not be bragging in local about their msn addressbook. /signed
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:41:00 - [4401] Edited by: Angelyn on 30/05/2007 00:42:27 alright guys, this is slightly off topic, and I apologize totally for it, but something happenned at the store while I was out that just 1)blew my mind and 2)gave me a hint as to how far this thing really is getting. the guy in front of me in line was counting his change and looked at the cashier. he was a bit annoyed and said, (exact quote) "What are you trying to do BoB me?" the cashier had no idea what he was saying and asked for an explanation whereupon the guy said cheat him, because he was 50 cents short in change......and no, before anyone asks, I am not making this up!!!
Eric Black Caldari Tripocalyptic Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:44:00 - [4402] Originally by: Mister Spanky The ISD guy was not, is not, and has never been a Goon. ---------------------------------- what about his other accounts? he did mention he had some.............
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:01:00 - [4403] Edited by: Richard Johannson on 30/05/2007 01:02:59 Edited by: Richard Johannson on 30/05/2007 01:00:39 Originally by: Angelyn Edited by: Angelyn on 30/05/2007 00:42:27 alright guys, this is slightly off topic, and I apologize totally for it, but something happenned at the store while I was out that just 1)blew my mind and 2)gave me a hint as to how far this thing really is getting. the guy in front of me in line was counting his change and looked at the cashier. he was a bit annoyed and said, (exact quote) "What are you trying to do BoB me?" the cashier had no idea what he was saying and asked for an explanation whereupon the guy said cheat him, because he was 50 cents short in change......and no, before anyone asks, I am not making this up!!! Angelyn i dont make this up either, 2 days ago i read in a german internet forum an quite similar thing in german but they were using the term Bobing as a word for cheating, i guess the two guys were eve players...
Ediz Daxx FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:02:00 - [4404] Originally by: Mister Spanky The ISD guy was not, is not, and has never been a Goon. How do you know?
Shadow Elk	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:03:00 - [4405] Edited by: Shadow Elk on 30/05/2007 01:03:29 Originally by: Ediz Daxx Originally by: Mister Spanky The ISD guy was not, is not, and has never been a Goon. How do you know? Through MSN. Now, if we also had MSN contact with devs we could confirm or deny it, couldnt we? Just a lil exampel. Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots.
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:05:00 - [4406] Edited by: Angelyn on 30/05/2007 01:05:45 I talked with him afterward, he isn't an eve player, he plays CoV, some CoH, but a friend told him about this incident and he read the forum. He did say however that after reading the kind of stuff BoB was posting he wasn't going to play no matter how attracted he had been prior to that. To me this says BoB are definately driving off possible clients, and where their is one, their most likely are several more...
Robert Denby	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:29:00 - [4407] Originally by: Mik Nostrebor I think that CCP needs to take some actions to indicate that they are taking all such issues seriously. Call the U.N.!!!
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:35:00 - [4408] As far as the ISD guy goes, the only name other than his ISD char that has come up is a member of Aegis Militia. Supposedly, an empire based RP group. From the ahem other forum's available to us, I've read nothing to indicate he is in the Goons, or connected with the Goons. Of course, he might be a goonie, but it seems so far he isn't. Of course, this may all be bull, but Dianabolic sure made an error by even mentioning the msn-friends bit :P, even if he's perfectly sincere in his innocence. whoops. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/02/2007 23:20:58 But come on, at least give the devs a chance to fire t20. Hmm, still waiting.
Obsidian Reborn	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:38:00 - [4409] Originally by: Jonas Vance Originally by: Malloc Memrel By way of anecdote since I ran out of room last post, we used to joke about an associate of mine at Blizzard having "Magic Dice". As is common in large dungeon crawls, the best loot would be "rolled" for by asking the system's random number generator for a number between one and a hundred, with the highest roller being allowed to take the most coveted items. This employee would almost always win the rolls. It didn't matter if the next highest roll was nine or ninety, he'd win it most of the time. When he played on the public servers, his guildmates gave him good-natured grief about it- "Argh, you lucky son of a~!"- but they just chalked it up to him being really lucky, as some people simply are. Think, for a second, what their reaction would be if they knew he was a developer? Would it be so easy to pass his consistent good fortune off with the knowledge that he knows the people who designed the random number generator? Would it be impossible to concieve that he knew, somehow, how to fix the dice? Even if it was the farthest thing from the truth, there'd be the suspicion, and it wouldn't be unreasonable, which is why he's never told anyone outside the company anything about his character, his guild, anything, ever. His guildmates have no reason to suspect him because they have no idea they're playing with a Blizzard employee. Nobody ever has any idea that they're playing with Blizzard employees, not even to each other. I've heard of Blizzard people who went to guild meets incognito and discovered that their co-workers have been right there in their guild with them for months and months without even realizing it, so total was the secrecy. I think EVE as a whole needs a new set of blinders put on it, one that obscures all vision between the customer side of the line and the corporate side of the line. Mixing the two is a pandora's box that has, is, and will inevitably lead to more public outcries over accusations of impropriety which ultimately hurt the company as a whole. I don't know how things are in Europe, but stateside the video game industry is one big incestuous family where everybody knows everybody else. How many times will "EVE Scandal!" have to appear on the front page of Slashdot before the company becomes a Resume' Stain? We're at twice, and that's pushing it already. /signed, signed and SIGNED You sir, win this thread. Hey Arkanon Pay attention to this one he has a winner of an idea!!!! Obsidian Reborn
Crux Australis Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:39:00 - [4410] Quote: Since last Friday, an unnamed corporation posted over 4000 times on EVE's message boards concerning these allegations. In addition, 1046 posts were made on Digg.com; 235 comments were added on Slashdot; and made multiple EVE-related edits on Wikipedia. Each of these sites was hit within a few hours of each other, at the start of the three-day Memorial Day weekend in the US and a three-day weekend in Iceland, all referencing unfounded allegations ù now proven to be false ù that occurred three weeks ago or longer. The volume and timing of these near-simultaneous references is no coincidence: we were the target of a carefully constructed and well-timed social engineering effort by one of the largest player groups in our community. The intention? To undermine EVE Online and the credibility of CCP Games. More specifically, the objective of this scheme was to permanently paint CCP as a biased and corrupt company that favors a select group of players over the rest of our community. In this particular case, instead of receiving notification of a possible problem and sufficient time to examine and address it, we faced a coordinated and hostile attack executed on our forums, Digg, Wikipedia, Slashdot, and other outlets at the beginning of a three-day weekend. We believe this speaks volumes of the intention of the person(s) responsible for orchestrating this scheme. Verification of this can be readily found on the forums of the people responsibleùor at least could, the last time we looked. Claims that the goal of this effort was to expose corruption within the company cannot be taken seriously. They are simply a smokescreen intended to mobilize and use the EVE community against CCP. There is no evidence to support the claim of information sent to CCP concerning internal corruption and wrongdoings on the part of our employees is being systematically suppressed. The fact that this attack took place over a holiday weekend was especially revealing of motive, which we believe was specifically by design to ensure that CCP would not be able to react as fast and efficiently as we would under normal circumstances. The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack. GG 'Unnamed Corporation'. To all the sympathizers, now you know who you are in bed with. And it's not BoD who is telling you. Originally by: Tuxford Sure play gallente and caldari if you like, just don't be upset when I waste your ass in a hurricane.
Alois Hammer Minmatar Hammers Slammers Slammer's Republic	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:42:00 - [4411] guys , guys , guys...... we cant honestly blame BOB for being such a bunch of assinine human beings.... i mean , just because they really dont care about the game (as DB proves it) , cuz of the uber-god help and support they get from the devs , we cant really blame them can we?? we all have played duke-nukem in god-mode ourselves , we never really cared if someone whined about how its unfair there either , im guessing to them its not cheating , just part of THEIR EVE , unfortunatley not ours. well its coming up on day 5 im giving it 3 more days before the CCP-BOB censor train kicks in and starts **** all of this. again , why play fair when your friendly dev is only a mouseclick away...unlike for all us other dirtbags that hafta wait for weeks at a time to get a response on our mundane and boring pettitions........
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:43:00 - [4412] yeah, were not in bed with a group who's name is becoming synonymous with cheating in the gaming community, and not just in Eve!!
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:46:00 - [4413] Originally by: Mik Nostrebor Look at it this way. A business man (CCP) is accused of murder and corruption. He is hauled in front of a judge and the judge asks him to launch an investigation into his own guilt. He goes away and promises to come back with an unbiased finding. He gets some employees in his own company to look into the issue and compile a report. He reviews the report and makes sure it has the right spin. He comes back to the judge and says, "I can find no evidence whatsoever of my guilt against all accusations". The judge says "Fine. You are not guilty; off you go" Issue finished. Justice is satisfied. Well said! You know they swep it under the rug like every time, i tell you in a few days they will come out with a statement look like this: Hey guys we just finished our investigation of this whole thing and found only some minor issues, case closed. It could only happen because none of the senior eve officials were present, once again only kids in the office. They were told again don't to do so in the future. This time they agreed, case setteld. And now: MOVE ALONG, WHINER! P.S. If you still want to leave, please hand over all your stuff and ships to BoB before you go, thanks.
Angelyn	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:50:00 - [4414] I can see it now guys, since BoB talks about going on after eve to other game, there we are, a member of BoB in the next greatest space game, say, "Space Race 9000". Ex-BoB member, "Yeha I played other online space games before, I was in Eve" New corp member, "Hey that was a great game, too bad it went down like it did, hey what corp were you in there?" Ex-BoB member, "Oh I was in BoB, we won the game" slight pause....... (Alliance switch over) New Corp Member,"Guys, the new guy was in BoB!!! Can his rump, NOW!!!" (Switch of to dev help channel) New Corp Member, "Guys, this player says he was in BoB in Eve..." (New game Dev Department manager) "Wait, we let a BoB member from Eve into the game and we know what account he has, banned it now!!!"

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:51:00 - [4415] Results of the investigation are here. Please continue the discussion there. This thread is now locked. Thread Locked click ___ Questions/Complaints/Opinions/Bree \| Forum Rules \| Our Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER


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