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Cloaked ships to be SCANNABLE/PROBABLE in Rev 2?!

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Kw4h Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:19:00 - [121] Originally by: Rawthorm Well this is definatly gonna harm how we can use Hera (The Nyx) for raids on alliance terretory. No matter what the cloak penilty is to a scan result, the Nyx is so big it's still pretty much gonna be a guarenteed and fairly accurate find. Of course we wont stop using her in this fassion, but its dammed anoying that a tactical way of being able to hit the many, with only a few on your side is being nerfed so hard. I can only imagine how this will effect other peoples ability to do hit and run attacks with a small cloaked force. It's a dammed shame we are now removing the psycological aspect in baiting a raiding force out into a trap, and just giving the defenders the easy way out Being pushed back to the blob 4tl... You just wrote down the reason why this boost is implemented... _ Planet Sight Wallpaper - EvE map
DeckardIRL Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:28:00 - [122] Originally by: murder one Personally I wouldn't have any issue at all with scanning/probing regular ships fitted with cloaks. That is to say: all ships except Recons, Covert Ops and Stealth Bombers. The above three classes simply need to be allowed to fit Covert Ops cloaks (including the SBs), and everyone else not fitting COC2s can be probed/scanned down. Problem solved. If CCP do anything other than this then it will be a total disgrace and a joke. I would have to consider my accounts. Our recon teams live on being undetectable. It still takes 300m to fit a recon properly. Deck _____________________________________________ Xelas Fleet Admiral
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:35:00 - [123] I think they really went about this change the wrong way. Instead they should have put a fairly heavy lock penalty in place for ships equiping cloaks if they are not the class of ships meant to scout... that way people could still cloak, but it wouldnt be useful for cloaking BS gangs to gank people.
TiggerTime Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.28 10:08:00 - [124] Originally by: Rawthorm but its dammed anoying that a tactical way of being able to hit the many, with only a few on your side is being nerfed so hard. I can only imagine how this will effect other peoples ability to do hit and run attacks with a small cloaked force. It's a dammed shame we are now removing the psycological aspect in baiting a raiding force out into a trap, and just giving the defenders the easy way out Being pushed back to the blob 4tl... /signed
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.28 10:08:00 - [125] Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Sure, this just means you need to have a lot of luck, or a pretty decently sized gang locking down the system for 5 hours to make sure there are no hostiles. Right. Seriously, in what dreamworld you are living in? It's in no way different to solo ratting & mining - which can be done quite easily atm - just watch local and if hostiles enter the system spend the time warping between safes. Quote: Apart from that, hitting scan and going afk for 5 minutes doesn't really work now either. Check scan and probe life times if you want to know why. WTS: clue. The person who I replied to was speaking about EXPLORATION. Maybe you should do yourself a favour and check stuff yourself first in the future.
Yakumo Smith Gallente The Forsakened Companions	Posted - 2007.05.28 10:21:00 - [126] If the technology exists to detect cloaked covert op ships, then the technology used to detect ships in deadspace needs boosting to match this "leap in probing technology" Can't have it both ways.
Caletha Reborn	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:02:00 - [127] Originally by: Kw4h You just wrote down the reason why this boost is implemented... Its implemented to stop people from making strategic retreats? Because lets be honest, if you see Ign0raMus in local your not really doubting what he's flying... And even motherships need to retreat from battle at times... So no, I dont think what he wrote is why its implemented... This is implemented because of all the carebears whining "we have a cloaker 24/7 in our system" while not comming up with ways to get rid of them... And while its annoying, I fear this 'solution' will ruin strategic cloak-warfare... I fear this might destroy force-recon gangs all together... But the patch isnt online yet, so we dont know yet how accurate probing cloakers will be, and how this will effect the strategic benefits of cloaks. But if this means that all ships that cant fit covert ops cloaks (no velocity penalty) are basicly useless cloakers, then I fear they just tried to fix something that wasnt broken but broke it while 'fixing it'. For my corp, cloaks allow us to have carrier backup far away from any pos-network that we have setup. Removing that ability would be a shame. Why would one fit a cloak if you just end up getting probed out the same was as without a cloak? Ohwell, I guess this free's up a highslot on my carrier...
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:05:00 - [128] Originally by: Caletha Reborn This is implemented because of all the carebears whining "we have a cloaker 24/7 in our system" while not comming up with ways to get rid of them... And while its annoying, I fear this 'solution' will ruin strategic cloak-warfare... I fear this might destroy force-recon gangs all together... How about you think before you say stupid things about how to get rid of an AFK cloaker in local. Better, go try doing it.
SFShootme The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:09:00 - [129] so ur saying that u can just probe cloaked ships just as fast as an uncloaked ship? Good job whiners. Tho shall give Life, for Life.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:10:00 - [130] Now if it was adjusted to make covops cloaks still undetectable, I could very well live with this change. But if it also affects covops cloaks, it is too bad a nerf to recons and exploration, so the benefit of no more afk cloakers pales in comparison Not to mention that afk cloakers probably still could easily avoid detection by stuffing their meds with ECCM, while the recons and explorers need those slots for other stuff. Really a bad idea that will do nothing to solve the true problem but thoroughly nerf other areas. If you want to fix afk cloaking, do it by making cloaks use fuel, or even better, use your shiney new heat system to prevent non-covops cloaks from constantly running. Thank you SkyFlyer! There is no 'n' in tur
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:36:00 - [131] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Not to mention that afk cloakers probably still could easily avoid detection by stuffing their meds with ECCM, while the recons and explorers need those slots for other stuff. It's an active mod, so no. While cloaking the only active mod you can run is the cloak.
SFShootme The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:50:00 - [132] manti + 3 speed mods + 2 speed rigs = 500+ m/s cloaked. it'll be long gone before u warp to 0 Tho shall give Life, for Life.
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:59:00 - [133] Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 28/05/2007 12:00:38 I'm looking forward to this after being harassed by afk-cloaking Recons/BS buddies for so long, them being uncatchable when they are just afk is stupid. What is this? High sec? Now at least they will have to put some effort into the game, keep on the move, and not afk playing counterstrike for 6 hours before checking in on the system they are in, to see if they can gank those trying to get on with their business. Recon frigs are too fast to be caught by any prober, and recon cruisers can simply warp away un-noticed. TBH, an invulnerability drive for BS/cruisers/carriers/MS doesnt fit in Eve.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:10:00 - [134] Originally by: Caletha Reborn Originally by: Kw4h You just wrote down the reason why this boost is implemented... Its implemented to stop people from making strategic retreats? Because lets be honest, if you see Ign0raMus in local your not really doubting what he's flying... And even motherships need to retreat from battle at times... So no, I dont think what he wrote is why its implemented... This is implemented because of all the carebears whining "we have a cloaker 24/7 in our system" while not comming up with ways to get rid of them... And while its annoying, I fear this 'solution' will ruin strategic cloak-warfare... I fear this might destroy force-recon gangs all together... But the patch isnt online yet, so we dont know yet how accurate probing cloakers will be, and how this will effect the strategic benefits of cloaks. But if this means that all ships that cant fit covert ops cloaks (no velocity penalty) are basicly useless cloakers, then I fear they just tried to fix something that wasnt broken but broke it while 'fixing it'. For my corp, cloaks allow us to have carrier backup far away from any pos-network that we have setup. Removing that ability would be a shame. Why would one fit a cloak if you just end up getting probed out the same was as without a cloak? Ohwell, I guess this free's up a highslot on my carrier... Cloaking capitals are bull**.. titans more so. If you can explain to me how this will, in any way, ruin a recon gang i'd love to hear it. Recons can warp while cloaked, remember? and they are pretty quick, even while cloaked. You know whats slow/invincible while cloaked? Isk whoring ravens and badger II's. If you see them warp to a planet you can decloak them and kill em easy... if they go to SS you are boned. It is sickening how many kills are missed this way even with a skilled and dedicated probe ship in a gang. Your cloak will still be usefull if you keep moving, and i am sure that ships intended to be covert would be harder to catch... The main problem that this will solve is A) cloaking titans, that rediculous **. B) goodbye isk farmers. they are going to pos spam like mad now... if rats give proper log off aggro and cloakers can be probed... they will hide in pos's... but thats a pretty big investment and kinda hard for NPC corp ravens to use. And its something that you can attack, they cant ctrl+q their pos. Yay for anti cloak probes!!
Peanut Swsh Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:15:00 - [135] as i posted in the other thread: as far as i understand the changes, i'm happy that the cloaked ships can now be scanned. all the guys are just complaining that their solo-pwnmobiles will be nerfed... except they wont. most of the time you are attacking other players solo or even 2-3 hostiles, whats the chance of most ships having a probe launcher fitted? pretty much zero. if you are expecting to take on fleets (who SHOULD have a covops) then i would have to say that your expectations are slightly unrealistic. also considering that probe launchers have 200cpu fitting requirement, which means any ship you are against which has one fitted is probably either a cov-ops (not really a threat), or seriously gimped. and if the other ship isn't a cov-ops then their scan time is 2+minutes. if you don't notice the probe on your directional scanner, and start moving then you deserve to be popped. with your small sig radius (and it should be made even smaller when cloaked, in regards to probing anyway) you will be impossible to find except in the most flukish of incidents. only a dedicated cov-ops would be a threat to you. and they would still have to spam probes all over the system to find you. and if they did spam, it would most likely be 20AU probes which have buggerall chance of pinpointing you in the right grid. by the time they have gotten close enough to get a 5au probe on you, well you know they are there, and you just move (preferable more then 5au) . and they have to start all over again with 20au probes to even have a clue where you are. all they are gonna acheive is a lot of wasted time, and wasted isk in probes. if you are fighting a gang with a cov-ops, just keep moving. the odds of someone scanning you out, then bringing enough ships and drone spamming to find you is extremely low. and if they do bring 15 ships, then i think they deserve at least a possibility of finding you, thou i doubt they would. try adapting like most cloakers say to everyone else. adapting ain't that hard, just pop the cov-ops while he is too busy watching his scan window. they are made outta paper bags and clag. most of the time these days if you are in a cloaker(this really applies for any ship) and you jump into a system people either warp to pos or station or warp to safe and cloak. if they are stupid enough not to do either of these things, then whether or not you are probe-able or not, makes no difference. to summarize dedicated cloaking ships still have a massive advantage. its already pretty much impossible to probe down a ship thats bouncing safes in system. i've been in systems after a fight, trying to probe and kill that last cruiser the hostiles had, and its impossible, if they keep moving. a ship with a cloak? forgetabout it. the only difference if these changes are implemented, is that cloakers actually have to be at their pc, 'playing' eve (OMG YOUR KIDDING, I HAVE TO SIT AT MY PC?) like everyone else. you are gonna argue its not realistic? nothing in this game is realistic. most people are just crying because cloaking devices don't operate the way their oxford dictionary definition makes them think they should. maybe the doomsday devices should actually create a doomsday, eve explodes.. you know, just to keep inline with cloaks. in regards to haulers etc, well the solution is easy enough, just use a scout. so yeah overall a good idea. with a note that, cloaked ships should be harder to probe then uncloaked ships of the same class, i.e. 20% reduction in sig radius when cloaked for the crappy cloaks, and 50% reduction in sig radius for covert ops cloaking device II's. makes the afk cloakers probe-able, but anyone actually playing eve, impossible to find.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:25:00 - [136] Originally by: Peanut Swsh makes the afk cloakers probe-able, but anyone actually playing eve, impossible to find. A good post imo other than this part, i think only those in covert ships should be hard to find, but not impossible. I think ratting ravens or OMFG TITANS (its a ******* moon. it changes the tides of planets ffs. you should be able to see it on overview no matter where the hell it is.) should be very easy to probe out... This doesnt nerf cloakers, those really really meant to have them on will be fine, those using them on ships not intended will have to deal with the downside of their mold breaking idea.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:29:00 - [137] Originally by: SFShootme manti + 3 speed mods + 2 speed rigs = 500+ m/s cloaked. it'll be long gone before u warp to 0 Faster actually, SB got a very decent speed boost on sisi. A manticore with 2 OD2, a 3% speed implant and nav 5 has a speed of 760 m/s.
Peanut Swsh Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:35:00 - [138] perhaps it was poorly worded. i'm not saying covert ops or recons should be impossible to find. but really any ship smaller then a BS, which keeps moving ain't gonna get probed down anyway. so the changes just mean that cloakers can't afk with a prober around. but with a sig radius decrease due to the cloak, they will also have an advantage over just any odd person who's bouncing safes.
Thanos Mortis Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:36:00 - [139] Wait are they making cloaked ships show on the ship scanner or be scan probable or both? -
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:40:00 - [140] Originally by: Thanos Mortis Wait are they making cloaked ships show on the ship scanner or be scan probable or both? B O T H Because I said so...
Peanut Swsh Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:51:00 - [141] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Thanos Mortis Wait are they making cloaked ships show on the ship scanner or be scan probable or both? B O T H oh well i disagree with this then. they should be probe-able, but showing up on directional scanner is a no-no. can you link to where this is said?
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:51:00 - [142] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Leandro Salazar Not to mention that afk cloakers probably still could easily avoid detection by stuffing their meds with ECCM, while the recons and explorers need those slots for other stuff. It's an active mod, so no. While cloaking the only active mod you can run is the cloak. Meh true enough, so replace med with low and you still have that issue. Thank you SkyFlyer! There is no 'n' in tur
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:58:00 - [143] Originally by: Peanut Swsh Originally by: murder one Originally by: Thanos Mortis Wait are they making cloaked ships show on the ship scanner or be scan probable or both? B O T H oh well i disagree with this then. they should be probe-able, but showing up on directional scanner is a no-no. can you link to where this is said? Read my OP. Dev specifically says 'scan', in addition to 'probe'. The original post has been deleted by the dev in question, for reasons I can only guess at. Because I said so...
Peanut Swsh Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:05:00 - [144] Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 28/05/2007 13:04:00 my understanding of the OP is that they can only be scan probed. scan in the OP, refers to scan probing. afterall scan probing is a method of scanning. and it specifically mentions scan probes. no mention of the directional scanners. you are just toying with the wording imo. would be nice if a dev could confirmation would be nice, but from the OP, i would say 99% that they aren't looking at letting cloaked ships appear on the directional scanner.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:24:00 - [145] Edited by: hydraSlav on 28/05/2007 13:24:30 Originally by: Hellown Thanks CCP, again you give into the whiners, i Hope this doesnt affect the covert ops/recon ships. Eve: Where Whining carebears get EVERYTHING they ask for. LOL, look who is whining If the covertops/recon is not AFK there is virtually no way he would be caught/decloaked. But this change will finally stop AFK cloakers. And the stupidity that is cloaked capitals I applaud the change, CCP == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Malena Panic Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:35:00 - [146] This is several different shades of awesome, all mixed together in a pot labeled 'awesome.' The submarine warfare part of this game just got a whole lot more fun. Thanks CCP!
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:40:00 - [147] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Meh true enough, so replace med with low and you still have that issue. Nope. You ignore that cov ops and recons are already harder to find from their base stats. The chance to find a target depends on their sig/sensor strength relation, the lower the smaller the chance. A Buzzard has there 2.1, a falcon 6.4. And a raven 20.9. Now, 3 lowslot backup arrays give you a sensor strength bonus of 167% (they have the stacking penality). This gives the raven 7.8 there, still more than the recon. If it fills ALL 5 lows with them (which sees unrealistic since it won't be a very efficient ratter then) it will be around 1% harder to probe than the falcon (6.359 vs 6.423).
Ashaz	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:06:00 - [148] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn It is more the fact that everyone and their mother uses cov ops cloaks on every type of ship in the game, especially ratting ships, and that should not be happening. I would also like a way to make it really easy to uncloak Battleships that try to use a cov ops device. I am just curious. what ratting ship are you refering to exactly that has 100000 cpu?
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:15:00 - [149] Originally by: Ashaz Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn It is more the fact that everyone and their mother uses cov ops cloaks on every type of ship in the game, especially ratting ships, and that should not be happening. I would also like a way to make it really easy to uncloak Battleships that try to use a cov ops device. I am just curious. what ratting ship are you refering to exactly that has 100000 cpu? And this is why COVOPS/RECON specialists are getting hit due to the ignorant screaming for a nerf they actually don't have a clue about . Pathetic... More alliance cookies....patooie I say....patooie "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
SFShootme The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:19:00 - [150] if they're going to be shown on the ship scanner it makes cloaking TOTALLY pointless. Probing, fine Scanning? No f'in way Tho shall give Life, for Life.

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