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Cloaked ships to be SCANNABLE/PROBABLE in Rev 2?!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:14:00 - [31] Edited by: Plutoinum on 27/05/2007 11:13:33 Originally by: Presidente Gallente I just cloak and keep moving. The probe-hero warps in and I am out of de-cloak range anyways. Works for the covert, probably not for a probed BS, because you are so slow. Probe, warp gang, everyone his drones out. Might work. Raven has maybe moved 2 km or so in that time. That anyone catches a Cheetah this way, even if it's afk, is unlikely. That thing moves with 500m/s or something like that cloaked, if you want.
Dave White coracao ardente	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:16:00 - [32] All I've got to say to this is... ffs CORA. Killboard Personal Killboard
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:27:00 - [33] Edited by: Plutoinum on 27/05/2007 11:30:19 Actually I think ships using covert ops cloaking devices shouldn't be probable. Covert OPs e.g. are usually used as warp-in points to hostile fleets, like jumping on top of a sniper fleet with dictor and close-range ships. If everyone is scanning those covert ops down, they can't do this job and that's just bad. A mechanism, that only works against afk'ing for those ships and touches nothing else there, would be a lot better. ( Depends also on how 'easy' it is to probe a covert down. )
Kahor Minmatar Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:32:00 - [34] So...you probe them, ok, now how do you uncloak them ? :) I mean, people will probably send their ship away in a random direction after cloaking, a recon goes about 200m/s, in 30 second it's 6km away from where you had your scan result :) ---------------- An eye for an eye make a whole world blind.
Presidente Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:35:00 - [35] Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 27/05/2007 11:13:33 Originally by: Presidente Gallente I just cloak and keep moving. The probe-hero warps in and I am out of de-cloak range anyways. Works for the covert, probably not for a probed BS, because you are so slow. Probe, warp gang, everyone his drones out. Might work. Raven has maybe moved 2 km or so in that time. That anyone catches a Cheetah this way, even if it's afk, is unlikely. That thing moves with 500m/s or something like that cloaked, if you want. I use a Cloak actually on a Vexor and Rifter. Vexor is something about 50ms and Rifter 95ms if I remember right. This is a good chance to sneak out of range. If we compare probing cloaked ships with eg. Star Trek where they just recognize a cloaked Bird of Prey by warp signature [?] it should be really hard and difficult to find them. Or just with a special, very expensive probe and damn good skills. I hope CCP will make it not too easy. Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Mikal Drey Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:41:00 - [36] hey hey 1) **** this ! 2) if your deviation from the scan result is 0m then you will decloak the ship when you drp out of warp 3) smartbomb when you land :/ 4) whine = nerf 5) isnt the whole entire point of a cloak to NOT be found !!
R0ot InNova Tech Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:47:00 - [37] Well if this is true THANK FECK! Finally those entire fleets that fit cloaking devices are in bother! ------------------------------------------------------------------
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:52:00 - [38] Originally by: Mikal Drey 2) if your deviation from the scan result is 0m then you will decloak the ship when you drp out of warp They could make the deviation dependant on the cloaking device used.
Presidente Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:57:00 - [39] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 27/05/2007 12:02:13 Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 27/05/2007 12:00:07 Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey 5) isnt the whole entire point of a cloak to NOT be found !! That's excactly the point. But objective spoken you can see it from different pov's of course. The cloak is my little station. Cloaking at a bookmark is like docking and stay safe afk in 0.0. It's a bit logical from a technology pov that there must be a little tech-chance to locate a cloaked ship like locating a stealth-bomber on radar IF the pilot does make some mistakes or the enemy had developed a new technology against that. But the chance must be very, very low with damn good advanced skills plus a super-expensive t2 or better: faction probe. Otherwise the whole idea of cloaking is messed up. I understand the idea behind nerf cloaking: it's a bit similar to logoffski. The risk to get catched at a afk-cloak-SS will force the player to stay in action and not feel 100% safe. From that pov I would support the idea. Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Thanos Mortis Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:02:00 - [40] I think this is a great idea, it removes the safety blanket associated with idle or AFK cloaking but doesn't hinder general cloak use or require stupid 'fuel'. Legitimate use of covops will not be affected, a recon or covops pilot can change safespots or keep up speed and remain hidden indefinitly, but those who simply warp to safespot and cloak lose their passive means of safety. -
Mikal Drey Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:07:00 - [41] afk cloaking did need to be looked at but there was so many other solutions rather than making them scanable. Coverts should not be found :( the leakage of spatial distortion on other cloaks and ships could provide a basis for being scanned out but certainly not covert ops. my huge issue is that there seems to be no end to the nerfbatting. just because people dont use stuff as intended. it would be much more sensible to design in module usage to be more specific. eg. strip miners/covert cloaks/capital items. Will scanning be limited to coverts ? probably not. im even expecting people to be able to probe out a cloaked ship in a shuttle as they will probably also have onboard scanners too. poof just went another module and balance went with it.
Yarek Balear Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:11:00 - [42] Originally by: Thanos Mortis Legitimate use of covops will not be affected, a recon or covops pilot can change safespots or keep up speed and remain hidden indefinitly, but those who simply warp to safespot and cloak lose their passive means of safety. Perhaps the best compromise is to always maintain a >10km deviation from the scan result, this ensures that those at the keyboard can react to anything warping in on their result, but those who are afk can be caught as people spread out drones/smartbombs in an effort to decloak them. This doesn't mean that cloaking specialised ships can stay safe all the time... I have no problem whatsoever with ships that can use the Covert Ops Cloaking Device II being unable to be scanned at all, it's only a problem for BS's and such that use the lesser cloaks to hide in local. This won't solve anything either - logoffski will become much more prevalent... I rarely say this, but I think the solution is a cack-handed method of addressing a problem that exists with ships that are not meant to cloak only...
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:14:00 - [43] The crux of this issue is ensuring that no cloaked ship ever is WTZ'd by a prober, that'd be just stupid. Ideally the probe just hits a 50-100km deviation as the limit on how close you can get and then you have to use wile to figure out where an AFK'er is whereas someone in a recon/cov ops will either (a) warp away or (b) be totally unaffected because they're already surveilling targets at that sort of range anyway.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:20:00 - [44] The stupid thing is this: if you can scan/probe out the location of a Covert Ops Recon, or Stealth Bomber, then that means that you already know it's there. If that's the case, then the whole point of having a cloak is already ruined. It's already hard as hell to sneak up on a target due to local. If you have a general idea of where a Recon or Cov Ops is, then there is hardly any point in using one anymore. Scanning/probing normal ships? I could care less. Probing Recons/Cov Ops? That's ******. You don't actually have to find someone's Recon to completely negate it's usefulness. Simply knowing how far away it is is enough to eliminate it as an effective combat ship. Because I said so...**
Pax Uranus Sofa.Kingdom	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:27:00 - [45] My guess is that the implementation of the chance to probe and distance deviation will be based on prober skill levels versus target's ship signature and quality of cloak. That's sort of how I'd do it if I had my druthers. Just sayin'.
Thanos Mortis Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:32:00 - [46] Originally by: Yarek Balear This doesn't mean that cloaking specialised ships can stay safe all the time... I disagree, if you are not afk you will be able to shipscan for probes, you can tell you're being searched for and you can change location long before you are troubled. -
Caanan Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:45:00 - [47] Well, this does solve the problem of cloaked capital ships. Although it kinda sucks for the smaller corps using cloaked carriers because if you run your carrier into a blob you're pretty much fked. So this change does promote blobs in a way. Although that's what capital ships are for. Other cloaked ships won't really have problems because they're constantly moving unless someone goes safe. listen to The Future Sound of BoB weekdays 18:00 GMT
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.27 13:57:00 - [48] The main problem I have with this is that it's not anywhere close to removing the invulnerability where it matters, namely how cost-effective simply PoSing up is. You can run sovless smalls indefinitely cheaper than anyone can shoot them down, which is as good as cloaking for ratting (and consequently : macro ratting). Same goes for the untouched logging mechanics. It also further doesn't realisticly touch recons at all, which are already a cheesy alpha class as is when used in conjunction with the only thing cheesier : supercapitals. To make this short, a cloaking fix would be great at any time except now. Right now there's bigger fish to fry, and changing these smaller ones first makes the big issues all the more prominent and gamebreaking. Hold off on it tbh until PoS-warfare and supercapitals (and maybe recons, but I doubt that'll happen) are made reasonable :/
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:12:00 - [49] Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 27/05/2007 11:12:41 Edited by: murder one on 27/05/2007 11:10:10 Originally by: CCP Fendahl The next patch also makes it possible to detect cloaked ships with scan probes, so the BS fleet could have its scouts scan for hidden surprises. O RLY? Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here). join me - we shall whine and use armies of alts to nerf everything else these damn 0.0 carebears like ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Digital Anarchist	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:19:00 - [50] Whiners FTL!!! ---------------- Nerf government!
Raketenkaese	Posted - 2007.05.27 14:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Twilight Moon lol....I frosee the following happening: 1) You probe out a cloaker. 2) You warp to them 3) You see nothing when you get there because the damn thing is still cloaked, and you landed more than 2500m away from it 4) You fly about aimlessly trying to run into it, not knowing if it has warped yet or not. 5) You whine on the forums a bit more. A covert running silent makes 450 m/s - staying cloaked and under way while leaving your pilot in a hostile system will still be perfectly possible without any risk of being decloaked if this will be the final implementation of decloaking technology.
britishfish Minmatar Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:02:00 - [52] i think anything with a T1 cloak fitted should be able to get scanned. anything with a T2 cloak fitted shouldnt be able to get scanned down. just my two cents A Dream is a goal without a plan. "No guts , no glory."
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:04:00 - [53] Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn on 27/05/2007 15:05:18 Okay, awesome start, but now fix logoffski mechanics are we have a game again. Fix the bug where jumping through a gate clears aggro timers, and increase the delay before one drops out of the game to a minimum of 5 minutes. But also, I think it should more difficult to scan our true Covert Ops ships. It is more the fact that everyone and their mother uses cov ops cloaks on every type of ship in the game, especially ratting ships. I would also like a way to make it really easy to uncloak Battleships that try to use a cov ops device.
Aslann Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:35:00 - [54] Originally by: Aramendel Ambushes? Never saw a bird of prey waiting in deep space till the enterprise has left the sector. Thats because it was cloaked
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:41:00 - [55] Edited by: TZeer on 27/05/2007 15:42:26 \o/ YAY!! more power to the blobs!!! Seriously!! WTF??? What will the point of a cloak be then??
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:50:00 - [56] Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 27/05/2007 11:12:41 Edited by: murder one on 27/05/2007 11:10:10 Originally by: CCP Fendahl The next patch also makes it possible to detect cloaked ships with scan probes, so the BS fleet could have its scouts scan for hidden surprises. O RLY? Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here). There are alot of presumptions going on. Keep in mind that detecting does not mean probing to 0 KM. And as others have stated any recon , cover-op, stealth bomber can simply pick a random direction and keep moving. THe odds of any of those ships but caught is SLIM. Now a BS or Hauler could be found not that it is going to be very easy either. THe odds are still in favor of the cloaker and the ship SS from one location to another. What this means is 15 hours afk cloaked in a BS will be a thing of the past. MAYBE have to wait and see and go from there
Masheine	Posted - 2007.05.27 15:51:00 - [57] If local is removed or altered to be like alliance chat, this change is fine. If local stays as an unintended intelligence tool, this change is ******. Maybe I'll start petitioning people for exploiting local every time a cloaked ship of mine is found.
Vengarioth Skullshanks Minmatar Bikini Girls with Machine Guns	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:06:00 - [58] I understand that the majority of the EvE community welcomes this changes. However there are still people in this game who like to fight differently. Sadly first and foremost this is a nerv to Guerilla Warfare. It's not about probing Isk farmers or ratters because you wont catch them anyway - logoffsky 4tl. I know most peeps dont like e.g. Cloaked damp ravens .. but it is a viable tactic where u can harm a much bigger entity without reverting to the common "i bring more numbers than u" blob. Eve is such a great game because of its versatility. Dont kill every aspect of it. 90% of Eve combat is already blob warfare ... you arent doing anything good to the minority who refuses to use numbers to win. cheers
Tredegar	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:19:00 - [59] Edited by: Tredegar on 27/05/2007 16:20:06 Maybe they should put modifiers on the chance of being spotted based on the type of cloak and class of vessel. (Base chance* cloak modifier* ship class modifier)100 = Percentage chance of finding a cloaked ship. Base chance =1 Cloak modifier = .5 Prototype Cloak .33 Improved Cloak .20 Covert Ops Cloak Ship class modifier = .20 Covert Ops .33 Recon Ships .50 Stealth Bombers 1.0 All other ship classes. So a Covert Ops with a Covert Ops cloak would have a 4% chance of being spotted. This percentage could also be considered as a modifier to signal strength. Just a thought. "I may be a craven little coward, but I'm a greedy* craven little coward." Daffy Duck
Achaiah Black Bag Ops	Posted - 2007.05.27 16:49:00 - [60] I can understand that cloaked capital ships is something CCP might wanna nerf, but this is simply amazing. And this because of a lot of whining from people who don't feel secure enough to play when they see one cloaked neutral/red in local (oh please, never leave high sec. Go away, play WoW.) Why is cloaking something that needs to be changed? Can someone at CCP please explain this one for me? Is it because 0.0 players can't deal with the pressure of having a solo cloaked hostile in 0.0? Man, capital blobs dominating everything, Titans even DDing small groups of half a dozen ships, and the solo fighter/small group terrorist using cloak gets hit with the nerf bat. Yeah, this makes sense. Who among the Devs just got pwned by a cloaked ship and went ballistic?

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