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Cloaked ships to be SCANNABLE/PROBABLE in Rev 2?!

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Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:09:00 - [181] Originally by: Jayson Lee ...Covert ops and recon should be very dangerous jobs, with a high probability of losing your ship. Currently its the easiest profession out there with little to no risk. Funny. I'd say the same for hauling/mining.
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:19:00 - [182] Edited by: Savesti Kyrsst on 28/05/2007 17:17:48 Originally by: Jayson Lee How many more ships will be killed because of the current changes? The only ones I see being at risk are those that go AFK when cloaked. Tactics havent changed only now people must be a little more attentive to what they are doing. Cloaked ships on the same grid will be uncloaked and killed fairly often I bet by gangs with a prober. 30secs at 200m/s is just 6km; a domi warping there and spewing drones followed by a crow circling around have a pretty good chance. This will change tactics, and force cloakers to constantly spam scan for probes, and frankly it will give me a headache. I have just thought of a way you can still go afk cloaked in a system though, so that's something
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:26:00 - [183] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Round and round it goes. I can't help but wondering how many of those saying that being able to "warp to your target" is going to ruin covops have ever used a recon probe in your lives Interesting question indeed. I believe the answer is: not many, which is further reinforced by quotes like these: Quote: When you probe someone out, I'd assume you warp TO them, and not away from them, thus your initial approach will 9 times out of 10, be where the cloaker is But hey, at least both parties agree that the only real fix is to remove local == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Jayson Lee Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:31:00 - [184] Originally by: Blue Pixie Originally by: Jayson Lee ...Covert ops and recon should be very dangerous jobs, with a high probability of losing your ship. Currently its the easiest profession out there with little to no risk. Funny. I'd say the same for hauling/mining. In hostile space, deep in enemy territory is suicidal, whats your point? Are you agreeing with me that cloaking is alittle bit on the easy side considering how dangerous the job is?
Jayson Lee Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:34:00 - [185] Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst Edited by: Savesti Kyrsst on 28/05/2007 17:17:48 Originally by: Jayson Lee How many more ships will be killed because of the current changes? The only ones I see being at risk are those that go AFK when cloaked. Tactics havent changed only now people must be a little more attentive to what they are doing. Cloaked ships on the same grid will be uncloaked and killed fairly often I bet by gangs with a prober. 30secs at 200m/s is just 6km; a domi warping there and spewing drones followed by a crow circling around have a pretty good chance. This will change tactics, and force cloakers to constantly spam scan for probes, and frankly it will give me a headache. I have just thought of a way you can still go afk cloaked in a system though, so that's something You know, hitting the scan button repeatedly is something that miners/ratters/mission runners have been told repeatledy. If you are in a recon ship and let someone get with in 2500m then maybe your are doing something wrong. However, 30 seconds is a detail that can change, what about the concept? Maybe 30 seconds is too quick, that doesnt invalidate the concept of finding cloaked ships.
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:46:00 - [186] Originally by: Jayson Lee However, 30 seconds is a detail that can change, what about the concept? Maybe 30 seconds is too quick, that doesnt invalidate the concept of finding cloaked ships. It's not just spamming scan repeatedly, it's spamming scan with "use overview settings" turned off, sorting through all the rubbish, and hoping and praying that no-one's probing you from outside scan range. It's a different situation from ratters and miners. Frankly, I'm not too keen on anyone having to spam scan constantly whether they're mining, ratting or hunting. I've mined before y'know, and even got ganked once At least if you're ratting or mining, you watch local as well, and you try to match ships to people, watch for little red minuses, and especially in 0.0 try not to do anything risky if anyone non-blue is in syst. What I'm saying is you do a variety of things, but you don't have to spam scan constantly, only at specific times. Every few minutes in a mission, but more if you're stuck at a warp-in point. Ratting or mining - depends how local looks and on the system. 30 seconds is too quick. I don't see a problem with cloakers being detectable with exploration probes, for example, or by a specific POS module. It'd also make sense if they just let probes show up in overview and thus be scanned specifically for.
Jayson Lee Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:06:00 - [187] Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst Originally by: Jayson Lee However, 30 seconds is a detail that can change, what about the concept? Maybe 30 seconds is too quick, that doesnt invalidate the concept of finding cloaked ships. It's not just spamming scan repeatedly, it's spamming scan with "use overview settings" turned off, sorting through all the rubbish, and hoping and praying that no-one's probing you from outside scan range. It's a different situation from ratters and miners. Frankly, I'm not too keen on anyone having to spam scan constantly whether they're mining, ratting or hunting. I've mined before y'know, and even got ganked once At least if you're ratting or mining, you watch local as well, and you try to match ships to people, watch for little red minuses, and especially in 0.0 try not to do anything risky if anyone non-blue is in syst. What I'm saying is you do a variety of things, but you don't have to spam scan constantly, only at specific times. Every few minutes in a mission, but more if you're stuck at a warp-in point. Ratting or mining - depends how local looks and on the system. 30 seconds is too quick. I don't see a problem with cloakers being detectable with exploration probes, for example, or by a specific POS module. It'd also make sense if they just let probes show up in overview and thus be scanned specifically for. I agree with you there. I never did understand why these ships dont have an active radar. It makes WWII tech look jovian by comparrison.
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:09:00 - [188] Originally by: Jayson Lee In hostile space, deep in enemy territory is suicidal, whats your point? That it just got a lot safer for you in sovereign space. Nothing short of a well organized blob is going to pose much of a threat. Here's where you tell me that's as it should be. Originally by: Jayson Lee Are you agreeing with me that cloaking is alittle bit on the easy side considering how dangerous the job is? Believe it or not, I've always agreed with you that cloaking was too easy. Where we've clearly disagreed is that using local is far too easy as well. My main beef is it takes away the initiative from the cloaked pilot. The Force Recon now becomes the hunted, rather than the hunter. The spy must rely on his cloak to avoid capture, not detection. This is "covert" in name only. True "cloaking" undermined by a freakin' chat tab.
Jayson Lee Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:25:00 - [189] Originally by: Blue Pixie Originally by: Jayson Lee In hostile space, deep in enemy territory is suicidal, whats your point? That it just got a lot safer for you in sovereign space. Nothing short of a well organized blob is going to pose much of a threat. Here's where you tell me that's as it should be. Originally by: Jayson Lee Are you agreeing with me that cloaking is alittle bit on the easy side considering how dangerous the job is? Believe it or not, I've always agreed with you that cloaking was too easy. Where we've clearly disagreed is that using local is far too easy as well. My main beef is it takes away the initiative from the cloaked pilot. The Force Recon now becomes the hunted, rather than the hunter. The spy must rely on his cloak to avoid capture, not detection. This is "covert" in name only. True "cloaking" undermined by a freakin' chat tab. I dont have a problem with removing local, just want there to be something added to replace it. One that requires an active effort on all parties, I even started a thread about it. I just think that maybe you under estimate just what removing local would do. I can see people erroring on the side of caution and scanning for all ships, cloaked or otherwise. With out the safety blanket of local, I think it will be even harder to track down and kill ships since they will be even more paranoid than before. Honestly I liked an idea brought up by another person, in a thread awhile back. Change the role of destroyers and make them the only ship that can dectect and track down a cloaked ship(at least the specialized cloaked ships). Equip them with very sensitive radar equipment and allow them to fite "depth charges" that can find a cloaked ship once the general area is narrowed down.
Steel Tigeress	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:33:00 - [190] Originally by: Cadela Fria Edited by: Cadela Fria on 28/05/2007 14:04:46 I STILL can't believe this is happening. Cloaking to avoid detection...IT WAS ONE OF THE FRIGGIN RULES! It takes up a highslot that could've been weapon...it renders you incapable of doing anything in terms of ship activity, it severely slows your ship too, you can't warp etc etc etc. You do know the RULES, to coin your phrase, had cloaks being probable from the verry begining. So in essence you have been breaking the RULES all this time by using cloaks that were not probable. Thank you please drive through....
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:49:00 - [191] Originally by: Jayson Lee I just think that maybe you under estimate just what removing local would do. Absolutely not. I'm not bucking for a quick fix, let's just globally drop local and let the chips fall where they may. But honestly, Jayson, despite our past differences, you've got to admit the whole local/cloaking mechanic are strongly at odds with one another.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.28 19:08:00 - [192] This will cause a whole lot of logging out. What is the point of this fix without something to give people a reason NOT to log out? Right now cloaking accomplishes to big things (other than cov ops scouting): 1. It allows ratters to warp to a safespot and cloak. Which actually alleviates the need for them to instantly log out, which is actually a good thing in my opinion. 2. It is a way to combat npc'ers that automatically log out as soon as a hostile enters local. If you idle-cloak in system for a few hours they eventually start ratting/mining again and you can then attack them, and hopefully agro them before they can ctrl + q. The bottom line is: This fix is completely meaningless, and will actually hurt game play even more. Without something to address the logging out of ships that have not yet been aggro'd then this changes nothing. Shamis
Jayson Lee Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.28 19:11:00 - [193] Originally by: Blue Pixie Originally by: Jayson Lee I just think that maybe you under estimate just what removing local would do. Absolutely not. I'm not bucking for a quick fix, let's just globally drop local and let the chips fall where they may. But honestly, Jayson, despite our past differences, you've got to admit the whole local/cloaking mechanic are strongly at odds with one another. I do agree compelety with you. But you cant drop local without major game changes, which you know already so I will stop sounding like a broken record. I do hope that with the changes to cloaks, and the possible removal of static belts, that changes to local may be on the way. I foresee alot of wailing and nashing of teeth in the coming future.
Arekhon Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.05.29 05:22:00 - [194] F-ing stupid!!!!11!!! I quit playing BF2 cause it got nerfed all to hell and back, and at this rate I will be done with EVE in oh...about next patch. This is bulls**t. What kind of game places content and then takes it away. Thnx for making me wast 26 days on Recons LVL 5 CCP!!!! proud member of [BEES] my thoughts and ideas represent your corp
Sailon	Posted - 2007.05.29 05:37:00 - [195] coverts should be immune on this or whats the ******* point of buying 30mil recon cloak on your ship than buying 1mil protocloak to you just get 30sec more detection time i say no coverts immune protocloaks able to get scanned.
Borasao	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:24:00 - [196] Originally by: Hellown Thanks CCP, again you give into the whiners, i Hope this doesnt affect the covert ops/recon ships. Eve: Where Whining carebears get EVERYTHING they ask for. I doubt carebears are the ones whining about not being able to find cloaked ships...
Borasatar	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:27:00 - [197] So, if being scanned out doesn't actually uncloak the person, what good will it do? I guess ships that equip the poor cloaks will move slowly and you can try to find them but the ships that move quicker will have moved a bit by the time you get to them, making it harder to uncloak them. So... if you plan to cloak, load up on overdrives, I guess.
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:04:00 - [198] Does anyone remember Eve without cloaks? I do, it wasnt the end of the world. get a grip. Merc Blog
Says	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:46:00 - [199] Edited by: Says on 05/06/2007 18:52:20 Edited by: Says on 05/06/2007 18:45:31 Originally by: Savesti Kyrsst Edited by: Savesti Kyrsst on 28/05/2007 17:17:48 Cloaked ships on the same grid will be uncloaked and killed fairly often I bet by gangs with a prober. 30secs at 200m/s is just 6km; a domi warping there and spewing drones followed by a crow circling around have a pretty good chance. BULL***. I have flown many hours in my main in a CovOps. If you're already 6km away, you have nothing to fear from the domi's drones. (One exception - they send drones in your direction. Not a big chance of that one, though.) The Crow circling has a chance, but it's still a fairly small one. Have enough speed mods, choose the right direction, and you're golden. I've flown CovOps, done a setup for gang mates, then had to dive under their MWD approaching drones. I've snuck up to battleships with "Keep at 5km" distance and sat there calmly while they released orbiting drones. So long as you keep outside of 5km, there is very little chance of you being found. Just sort overview by distance, and have everything* on overview. And I mean everything. Especially corpses near chokepoint gatecamps! Only time I've ever been uncloaked and popped was by a corpse and by running into an off-center anchored POS shield.
Says	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:52:00 - [200] Originally by: Borasatar So, if being scanned out doesn't actually uncloak the person, what good will it do? I guess ships that equip the poor cloaks will move slowly and you can try to find them but the ships that move quicker will have moved a bit by the time you get to them, making it harder to uncloak them. So... if you plan to cloak, load up on overdrives, I guess. Scanning out cloakers, even if you don't uncloak them, lets you know when you are being watched. This is very valuable tactical information. You can know if the fleet you have gathered at the "Alliance Safe" POS is being watched. You can know if your POS anchoring operation is being watched. You can know if the hostiles in a contested system are watching your ops, are aligned at a pounce safespot, or just sitting AFK. It is a good change. People should stop whining. Only thing this really changes is sitting cloaked AFK. Otherwise, it provides more tactical information and makes fleet combat more interesting.
Kamikaze Rock	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:07:00 - [201] Originally by: Jayson Lee Honestly I liked an idea brought up by another person, in a thread awhile back. Change the role of destroyers and make them the only ship that can dectect and track down a cloaked ship(at least the specialized cloaked ships). Equip them with very sensitive radar equipment and allow them to fit "depth charges" that can find a cloaked ship once the general area is narrowed down. Bombs from Stealth Bombers could fulfill this role. If flying a special purpose cloaking ship is going to become even more like submarine warfare, then I think this interesting and a very good thing.
Darth Pheonix	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:23:00 - [202] Edited by: Darth Pheonix on 05/06/2007 19:26:35 Edited by: Darth Pheonix on 05/06/2007 19:25:48 The entire idea of being able to find cloaked ships is perposterous (I know it's spelled wrong). Cloaking is FINE, STOP *****ING. Every time someone comes up with a new way to use something, people cry "nerf" because they don't want to engage their brains to come up with a counter. Everyone whines about fairness but forgets that 20 ships vs 5 is not fair. And then you cant hide from them, so you lose the ONLY way you have to escape from a large blob. Thanks CCP for giving more power to those who don't know how to think. EDIT: If cloaking causes you to be MUCH harder to scan (as in, even with the best skills and equipment they end up >10km away), then this "nerf"/neutering/UTTER RAPAGE OF A PERFECT ALRIGHT MOD may be tolerable. However, CCP is pushing the boundries of decent gameplay and forcing EVE to go the way of the dodo.
Mark Bollak	Posted - 2007.10.14 02:22:00 - [203] Originally by: Twilight Moon lol....I frosee the following happening: 1) You probe out a cloaker. 2) You warp to them 3) You see nothing when you get there because the damn thing is still cloaked, and you landed more than 2500m away from it 4) You fly about aimlessly trying to run into it, not knowing if it has warped yet or not. 5) You whine on the forums a bit more. haha...gold !
Nathomos Minmatar Magellan Exploration and Survey Rare Faction	Posted - 2007.10.14 02:25:00 - [204] Originally by: Mark Bollak haha...gold ! Umm, check post date before replying? Necro'd :\
Mark Bollak	Posted - 2007.10.14 02:47:00 - [205] Originally by: murder one The stupid thing is this: if you can scan/probe out the location of a Covert Ops Recon, or Stealth Bomber, then that means that you already know it's there. If that's the case, then the whole point of having a cloak is already ruined. It's already hard as hell to sneak up on a target due to local. If you have a general idea of where a Recon or Cov Ops is, then there is hardly any point in using one anymore. Scanning/probing normal ships? I could care less. Probing Recons/Cov Ops? That's ******. You don't actually have to find someone's Recon to completely negate it's usefulness. Simply knowing how far away it is is enough to eliminate it as an effective combat ship. I think you,ve just oulined my main issue with local... LOACL GIVES THE MAIN INTEL AWAY "that we are here" I mean, It,s pretty useless to have a cloaked ship...fitted to go behind enemy line for "INTEL" and have to give away MORE INTEL that you are initally getting... Look at it from this stand point, You are a recon pilot, your job is to get there, WITHOUT changing the target's main behavior..cauz that,s what you want "Him/her" to feel at easy..and fly out with either her/his best ship...see what,s he/she is about, Or at best...catch him/her in a smaller vessel...and assassinate the F*** with a few PewPew... and second...Killmail... sice when was it soo easy to know..who kiled you...when the one doing it did it in less than 15 second... "That's some mighty dang fine Detectives you have here charley !" If only we could get a killmail from OJ...hat would have been sweel...at least we would have written proof My 2cent
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.10.14 02:56:00 - [206] And the dead shall walk the land once more...... /sig --->Enter at your own risk<---
Stakhanov Katana's Edge	Posted - 2007.10.14 03:06:00 - [207] You fail at necros. It's an obvious one due to the thread title - Rev 2 has been already released , Rev 3 is the next Originally by: F'nog One does not simply log into Jita.
Inamarian	Posted - 2007.10.14 03:07:00 - [208] Quit whining.

ISD Rauth Kivaro ISD STAR	Posted - 2007.10.14 03:13:00 - [209] Do not necro. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website


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