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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Phoenix Britannian
Gallente Virtue Corporation
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Posted - 2007.05.28 10:19:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Moving Along
Originally by: ZeroForce once again avoided the point there kieron stop hiding and face us you say there was no "rigging" involved yet you say that the ending is pre-determined make up your mind
It's called a storyline.
Storylines should have their foundations laid by the events team and then be built by the players. If a storyline's ending is set in stone, then it's a worthless storyline.
- Phoenix Britannian |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.28 10:24:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Aegieal
Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Why is there no sticky regarding bob contacts to devs high up via msn?.......
So if i know a dev in real life, and an ISD member breaks the rules in game, and call him up on the phone to ask for help, what is wrong with that?
So if i know a police officer in real life, and I see a cop break the law, and I call my cop friend up on the phone to ask for help, what is wrong with that?
A helluva lot. It gives your cop friend the chance to 'fix' the problem on the quiet. If you report the problem through appropriate channels (and assuming you don't have widespread corruption) a record is made and the bad cop will be punished.
Whilst I don't subscribe to the tin-foil hat brigade conspiracy crap that kind of 'bucking the system' needs to be stamped on. Either that or it needs to be formalised and documented. Perhaps nominate a player-side referee for events. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
This is not a signature |
Plib
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Posted - 2007.05.28 10:40:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Kimiko Kurosawa
Originally by: Feral wind So to clarify you don't rig events to favor any one player / group /alliance etc. However you do rig events so that players efforts have no effect whatsoever on the outcome. IMO pretty Lame. Why bother if CCP has already planned a FORCED outcome and nothing I, my corp, or anyone else can do will change it. <sigh>
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these Events essentially just fancy missions? People run Guristas Extravaganza everyday and the outcome of that never changes; is this rigged?
Dude, you have just so ruined my mission playing experience. You mean after all this time I will never lose?
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coa2000848
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Posted - 2007.05.28 10:57:00 -
[154]
I love eve. I couldn't care less what CCP does or are said to, I think some people forget a few simple things.
1) CCP made EVE... 2) CCP = GM 3) GM = GOD
The game they have let us play creates more fun than any damage they (or an employee) could accidentally or intentially do. (Except ban me or turn off the eve server permanently)
If you enjoy complaining about eve or ccp more than playing the game go play WOW...
enough said.
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Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.28 11:10:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 28/05/2007 11:10:18
Originally by: coa2000848 I love eve. I couldn't care less what CCP does or are said to, I think some people forget a few simple things.
1) CCP made EVE... 2) CCP = GM 3) GM = GOD
The game they have let us play creates more fun than any damage they (or an employee) could accidentally or intentially do. (Except ban me or turn off the eve server permanently)
If you enjoy complaining about eve or ccp more than playing the game go play WOW...
enough said.
I payed therefore i am entitled to whine. When you pay for my game, then you can deny my right to whine, but so far you don't have any right to do so.
enough said.
P: If i receive 350x6= 2.1bil in my wallet in the next 24hs i will stop whining for 3 months. --------------------------------------------------
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Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2007.05.28 11:18:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Starraker Heh, the OP says:
Originally by: CCP kieron The claims of CCP rigging events to benefit a player, corporation or alliance are groundless.
Every paranoid person on this forum reads:
The claims of CCP rigging events are groundless.
Isn't it strange how thousands of players don't really buy that one?
And this isn't just a bunch of paranoid freaks looking for something to shout 'conspiracy' over. A large proportion of the player base simply don't trust CCP AND THAT DOESN'T JUST HAPPEN WITHOUT A REASON!
I am sure all players (including me) started and have kept playing because they really like the experience, so why would so many of them suddenly turn hostile and suspecious for no good reason? People don't just do that!
No smoke without fire... (t20)
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.05.28 11:31:00 -
[157]
Johnny Wishbone, the famous clairvoyant, told me that Kieron would show up and state that CCP did nothing and Aurora is not rigged. Because that is after all, is his job.
However Johnny Wishbone hasn't been an "also ran" at an aurora event that was obviously stacked for one side to win.
Eve: Cheats prosper. |
Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.05.28 11:48:00 -
[158]
I'm concerned about this because of the confirmed MSN contact between Band of Brothers and the Devolopers. It was admitted to by Dianabolic a prominent member of Band of Brothers. If such a link exists, and I see no reason why Dianabolic or other BoB members would have lied about its existance, it is possible such information could be passed in ways not detectable by in game mechanics.
I have a question, at the CCP offices and GM center, do you monitor the electronic mail, instant message services, and internet relay chats as many other corporations do? If not then you need to implement a means to monitor these in the future for all company employees and make that information available to IA. It is very common to routinely monitor these forms of communication and they have led to several dismissals due to employee misconduct at other firms.
Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs |
Aralis
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.28 11:54:00 -
[159]
It's not just the roleplaying events.
The tournaments were all rigged too - and in favour of BOB. Yes this is provable fact but CCP aren't interested. If they want to talk to me I'll happily prove it but all they are interested in is cover ups - as this whole thread shows yet again.
The roleplaying events being rigged spoils the whole point of being in them. Any game where the results are predetermined is not a game it's a story. I'd rather read a good book ty.
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Mamba Lev
Caldari The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.28 11:55:00 -
[160]
Originally by: CCP kieron Following up with the results of our investigations as they come available, we would like to present the following in regards to the allegations of rigged events.
This was investigated previously, the results of which were posted here. Nothing new has been presented that merits re-opening the investigation into the events following the actions taken against the player/volunteer who violated a Non-Disclosure Agreement in regards to the Cult of Tetrimon event arc.
Concerning the allegation of event rigging in particular, the document referenced in the 'Open Letter' is not a finalized script of events, but a proposal and living document based on player interaction with the event arc. The paragraph he refers to states:
ôAs said earlier, we can have the ending open if allowed by you or we can stack the cards in favor of Theology Council so that we after the arc go back to a T2 status quo for the Empire, but without any Tetrimon Cult (who will be forever branded traitors of the Empire and utterly wiped out).ö
In short, it simply gives CCP the option of deciding which direction to move EVEÆs Prime Fiction at the end of the arc or to allow unfolding events to determine what is to follow. The claims of CCP rigging events to benefit a player, corporation or alliance are groundless.
That's nice and what about the rest of the allegations in the letter or is CCP just pretending they where not written?
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Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.05.28 12:03:00 -
[161]
Thanks Kieron, although after reading the open letter, the points on rigging were a waste of time. In a NPC conflict there has to be a foregone conclusion to favour a particular side in order to advance the story to the next level, otherwise it would be hard to plan events ahead. None of these actually affect the players, CCP try to get you involved in the NPC faction events rather than just posting a "news report" and this is what they get in return.
Yet some people still are so determined to find CCP wrongdoing, why?
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Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.05.28 12:06:00 -
[162]
Mamba, they are investigating those as well, they are posting the results as they get them for each point raised in that letter, so as to answer the questions as fast as possible. Be patient, this takes time :)
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Tessa Barrayar
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Posted - 2007.05.28 12:07:00 -
[163]
Very nice thread and so utterly useful (to whomever...).
I wonder how amny other players will react just the same way like me. On reading that BoB and Goons and RonaldMcDonald are all evil Alliances trying to tweak the game to their advantage and that CCP ist soooo unfair and biased and stuff. Yeah, right Moulder, the aliens are inside this computer!
For me the conclusion of all this is pretty clear - boycot. I'll just never ever join any alliance and just play happily on sub-alliance level. What do I care if alliance XYZ has a deathstar and starts blasting moons to pieces? As long as it is not in my vincinity or in the part of empire space I usually fly in, I could care less. *yawn*
I just regret having bothered reading this whole thread somewhat... :-/ |
Sunbird Huy
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Posted - 2007.05.28 12:20:00 -
[164]
Drop the forum wars, play the game. Avoid this smack talks, it is not worth time u spend writin'. better set up some help program for new players, like a guidance thing, lotsa noobs quit the game just because there is no help after that confusing tutorial. Have fun, this is a game. Cheers!
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Ironnight
Caldari x13 Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.28 12:42:00 -
[165]
I guess it is a good time to take a few days away from the game, I read the two updates, and the first thing that comes to my mind is whitewash.
Also how is this not an exploit? Linkage It is a video of BOB using titans to bunce people out of a POS, could someone explain to me how this is not an exploit, because I just dont see it.
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Kel Gunrunner
Dark Destiny Inc. TALIONIS ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2007.05.28 12:46:00 -
[166]
Hahaha tessa I know, I just wanna go kill some red guys with my mates, whats with all this conspiracy crap
EVE is a great game!!!
if there are issues let CCP deal with it! its their job!
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mardburg
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Posted - 2007.05.28 12:46:00 -
[167]
I fail to understand this fuzz. When I roleplay i dont expect to win every time. Certain times I've found that I really hadn't a change to make my way like i'd like to. I still had fun, I enjoyed the playing more than the result. Some losses have been actually very fruitful for the storyline. I think the idea of roleplay is not to win everytime but to also live the moments when you loose. That happends even in real life too.
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Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.05.28 12:51:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Krugerrand on 28/05/2007 12:50:18
Originally by: Ironnight I guess it is a good time to take a few days away from the game, I read the two updates, and the first thing that comes to my mind is whitewash.
Also how is this not an exploit? Linkage It is a video of BOB using titans to bunce people out of a POS, could someone explain to me how this is not an exploit, because I just dont see it.
You realize the likes of AAA etc are doing that too?
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Spoon Thumb
Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.05.28 12:54:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 28/05/2007 12:55:18
Originally by: Evelgrivion
The allegations that CCP was rigging these events to end in the favor of a few players was proven to be false. However, the issue of them being completely inflexible with a foregone conclusion is something aurora should address. They're somewhat less fun if the players cant affect the outcome
Originally by: Aralis
The roleplaying events being rigged spoils the whole point of being in them. Any game where the results are predetermined is not a game it's a story. I'd rather read a good book ty.
I concur with these statements, having attended events myself.
Khaldari
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Sabahl
Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.28 12:57:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Sabahl on 28/05/2007 12:58:16 The way I see it...
1) CCP have given an explanation as to how they see the accusations and have pronounced them as being groundless
2) We have a choice. Believe CCP's internal investigation or do not believe them
3) If we choose not to believe them, why are we playing a game where we have zero trust in the people who are creating and developing it? We should stop playing immediately.
4) If you are still reading, you do not believe 3) and therefore trust CCP's investigation
5) If 4) is correct that means that the original accusations are groundless. Therefore the original accusers should post up an apology immediately for all the disruption that was caused. Failure to do so would only be acceptable if they have enacted 3) and have quit the game
6) Lets not even talk about the leakage of the Aurora event details, how it derailed an entire story arc, disappointed a LARGE portion of the player base and lead to a huge amount of effort on the part of the events people to be lost. Whichever alliance was benefited by the leakage of the information ultimately lead to the loss of a huge amount of enjoyment for a sizable proportion of the rest of us players. I have no idea which alliance it was, but given the origin of the open letter I have a couple of guesses.
All those in favour, say Aye
Signed
The Rest of CCP's Customers
I do not speak for BoB. Hell, most of the time I don't speak for me! |
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Hugo Maxum
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Posted - 2007.05.28 13:07:00 -
[171]
I am still waiting for the ban on the players that took the T2 BPO's. This was a knowing violation of the rules that you made. I don't care that you want to hold bob's butt cheeks, I want justice.
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Boogerbuster
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Posted - 2007.05.28 13:12:00 -
[172]
Originally by: CCP kieron Following up with the results of our investigations as they come available, we would like to present the following in regards to the allegations of rigged events.
This was investigated previously, the results of which were posted here. Nothing new has been presented that merits re-opening the investigation into the events following the actions taken against the player/volunteer who violated a Non-Disclosure Agreement in regards to the Cult of Tetrimon event arc.
Concerning the allegation of event rigging in particular, the document referenced in the 'Open Letter' is not a finalized script of events, but a proposal and living document based on player interaction with the event arc. The paragraph he refers to states:
ôAs said earlier, we can have the ending open if allowed by you or we can stack the cards in favor of Theology Council so that we after the arc go back to a T2 status quo for the Empire, but without any Tetrimon Cult (who will be forever branded traitors of the Empire and utterly wiped out).ö
In short, it simply gives CCP the option of deciding which direction to move EVEÆs Prime Fiction at the end of the arc or to allow unfolding events to determine what is to follow. The claims of CCP rigging events to benefit a player, corporation or alliance are groundless.
I wish someone besides Kerion had responded to this. After the t20 incident, he has low credibility. :(
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Hugo Maxum
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Posted - 2007.05.28 13:12:00 -
[173]
And what does your investigation do anyway. In the end we get "we are sorry for any wrongdoing and it was dealt with."
Yet i don't see the justice in it. Somebody msn's and that is good enough to get someone else banned. Well, he went around the rules to get someone banned. Why is he not banned for breaking the rules? He won't be because he is buddies with a dev. Tell the truth for once, be honest. Stop the line of crap that keeps coming every time somebody messes up.
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Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.05.28 13:24:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Sabahl Edited by: Sabahl on 28/05/2007 12:58:16 The way I see it...
1) CCP have given an explanation as to how they see the accusations and have pronounced them as being groundless
2) We have a choice. Believe CCP's internal investigation or do not believe them
3) If we choose not to believe them, why are we playing a game where we have zero trust in the people who are creating and developing it? We should stop playing immediately.
4) If you are still reading, you do not believe 3) and therefore trust CCP's investigation
5) If 4) is correct that means that the original accusations are groundless. Therefore the original accusers should post up an apology immediately for all the disruption that was caused. Failure to do so would only be acceptable if they have enacted 3) and have quit the game
6) Lets not even talk about the leakage of the Aurora event details, how it derailed an entire story arc, disappointed a LARGE portion of the player base and lead to a huge amount of effort on the part of the events people to be lost. Whichever alliance was benefited by the leakage of the information ultimately lead to the loss of a huge amount of enjoyment for a sizable proportion of the rest of us players. I have no idea which alliance it was, but given the origin of the open letter I have a couple of guesses.
All those in favour, say Aye
Signed
The Rest of CCP's Customers
I do not speak for BoB. Hell, most of the time I don't speak for me!
You do not speak for CCP's customers.
At best you could speak for Band of Brothers alliance which represents 1.5% of the game's population. Since your signiture immediately declares you don't speak for BoB that means you are speaking for your corporation Reikoku, which has in the past been proven to have had help from a cheating dev. In itself Reikoku doesn't even represent .1% of the game's population.
The thing that has bothered folks the most has not been addressed. That is the inproper MSN link between BoB and the developers, a link confirmed by high ranking members of BoB in the last thread. It is inappropriate that any small group of the games population have any method to circumvent the normal established lines of communication.
Hopefully without telling their employees they bugged all communciation going in and out of CCP offices and Arkanon will actually have the information needed to sweep this corruption aside once and for all.
Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs |
Revan Neferis
Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2007.05.28 13:27:00 -
[175]
Originally by: CCP kieron The claims of CCP rigging events to benefit a player, corporation or alliance are groundless.
I was avoiding to post here but this... honestely. You can't be serious.
"One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
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M4sterm1nd
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.28 13:38:00 -
[176]
Dear whiners,
If you're gonna whine and moan that eve is harder than you'd like it to be, go play Quake with noclip and godmode on or something. Don't go harassing the GMs for trying to keep a game this size up and running.
Excuse the language, but frankly all this garbage just irritates the sh*t out of me. I love Eve, and if you don't, just frack off! There is no Big Brother, no hidden agenda, no shadow government, they are NOT out to get you! You're not that important, and i'm truly sorry you think you are. Maybe ask your mother to breastfeed you for a while longer.
Personally I say hats off to CCP for even taking the trouble to indulge in this mudslinging contest, but the sheer fact that it's even being taken seriously is just laughable! Worst of all, most of the people slandering CCP here have no clue whatsoever as to any facts of the cases, reasoning instead solely from hearsay, circumstancial evidence, and prejudice. Of course BoB claims to have "contacts on the inside". Pretty much EVERY seven year old that gets beat by a big bully does the same : my daddy's gonna call the president! My daddy's gonna this, my daddy's gonna that. Just you wait till my daddy gets here!
Let's just give it a rest, huh people? Get your collective teeth out of CCP's hand. CCP made this game, and though they may be flawed (OHNOES, THEYRE HUMAN!), they got it up, and keep it up, for all of us to enjoy.
With kindest regards, M4sterm1nd
_
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Sabahl
Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.28 13:39:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf
Originally by: Sabahl I do not speak for BoB. Hell, most of the time I don't speak for me!
You do not speak for CCP's customers.
At best you could speak for Band of Brothers alliance which represents 1.5% of the game's population. Since your signiture immediately declares you don't speak for BoB that means you are speaking for your corporation Reikoku, which has in the past been proven to have had help from a cheating dev. In itself Reikoku doesn't even represent .1% of the game's population.
Don't be ridiculous. That was a post from me, by me, for me. And my signing from The customers was a reference to the original open letter which purported to be from all the customers in the first place. If you don't like me signing off from the rest of the player base might I suggest you skewer the original open letter first? |
Sabahl
Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.28 13:40:00 -
[178]
Originally by: M4sterm1nd
Stuff
Hear god-damned hear! |
Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.05.28 13:43:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Sabahl
Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf
Originally by: Sabahl I do not speak for BoB. Hell, most of the time I don't speak for me!
You do not speak for CCP's customers.
At best you could speak for Band of Brothers alliance which represents 1.5% of the game's population. Since your signiture immediately declares you don't speak for BoB that means you are speaking for your corporation Reikoku, which has in the past been proven to have had help from a cheating dev. In itself Reikoku doesn't even represent .1% of the game's population.
Don't be ridiculous. That was a post from me, by me, for me. And my signing from The customers was a reference to the original open letter which purported to be from all the customers in the first place. If you don't like me signing off from the rest of the player base might I suggest you skewer the original open letter first?
Which would be acceptable if you hadn't signed it The Rest of CCPs customers, which you clearly cannot represent.
Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.05.28 13:46:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 28/05/2007 13:52:04
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 28/05/2007 04:38:56
Originally by: Andrus Delai If one side is predetermined to win, then the event is rigged. The fact that the events aren't rigged with a certain player/faction/alliance that only lessens the severity. If the outcome of any event is predetermined, EVE is not truly a sandbox game.
And since event information is not kept secret it could easily be leaked to others in the game and given a predetermined victor, the chance of information leaks increase dramatically.
This happens in every MMORPG. In fact, in most MMORPGs, every single event is like this.
Not only in every MMORPG, but in every god damn RPG out there.
I am a hard-core RPer. I RP in EVE about 99 percent of my gaming time, and I am very involved with one of the major CCP-created player factions. While I too have had my issues with certain details of certain events, this whining about a game of thousands of roleplayers having some "rigged" events in it is complete bull****. (Yea, I know that word won't pass the filter, but I just cannot make myself to invent a polite alternative for something that so obviously *is* complete bull****.)
I have been slightly involved in running a live action game that was played for about 10 hours every month, by about 50-70 people (depending on whether you count the support cast). There's no way you can run something like that completely open-ended, other than not have a storyline at all, but let players run it alone. If your local LARP GM tells you all the storylines they introduce are completely player-driven and receive equal love and care, here's a newsflash: either they don't really run those storylines by putting any more effort to them than you do yourself, or they are lying to you, and possibly to themselves, in order to preserve the illusion of a "real world".
The logistics of running an open-ended storyline do not scale up linearly in the number of players, it scales up linearly in the number of relationships between players or player factions - which is more or less exponential in the number of players.
There's no way humanely possible to run a completely open-ended storyline for thousands of players. As an extreme example - we all know there's factional warfare coming up. That takes huge planning, background story writing and programming - and no way is it going to get cancelled even if all player factions suddenly decide to hold hands and sing kumbayah. (True Unity! *cough* Sorry 'bout that.)
CCP has to have a rough idea where the storylines are going, in order to do the game development. The events staff has to work in the limits set by that. Anyone with half a brain and minimal game-mastering experience, even from something remotely similar like tabletops, realizes that.
There's lots of insanity going on with these accusations and witch hunts, but as far as roleplaying is concerned, in the end it all boils down to the same old ultimate maxime of roleplaying: if you don't like the way the game is run or how much the storylines are "railroaded", and if you don't trust the GM to work with eveyrone's fun in mind, get the **** out and go do something else. There's no point in wasting your life playing a game ran buy guys you don't trust and whose style you despise, let alone paying them for that.
Myself, I love what I have seen from the eventa staff lately, and I am staying. I don't give a damn if you guys are railroading it or not. For me, it's not about winning, it's about having fun. If I start to play to win, I hope I realize in time and go and get myself a life.
</soapbox>
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. "When pirates hate your guts, you know you are doing something right." |
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