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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Andreya
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Posted - 2007.05.28 10:18:00 -
[1]
Yea im not so concerned about the whole actual bomb factor here.
Im able to get my Stealth bomber to go 5+km per second. forget the cloak. i can just zip about, put points on people and hit them with THREE cruise missiles!!! compared to the 3 standard missiles from a crow! and if I'm feeling feisty i can drop a nuke on them 
also the bombers have impressive resists, i lost my gank sabre to a manticore, he outtanked my guns... never woulda happened with pre rev 2 bombers.
so, now we have basically have interceptor speed (5km+), half the DPS of battleship raven, can drop nukes, can go 1.2km while cloaked. and has better resists than interdictor and interceptors.
something is wrong here.
At this rate everyoen will be flying them (inlcluding myself, which will end up very boring) and you'll hear about these things soloing battleships.
please address this.. I dont want to have to deal with everyone flying these like the old Istab BS's going 10km wich took like 3 months to fix
(someone mentioned use bombs on a new T2 destroyer, yes plz!!! :) dessies/dictors need more attention)
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Jotan Veer
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2007.05.28 10:35:00 -
[2]
That's just great, yet another speed tanked dps ship is exactly what this game needs....
/me changes his skill plan to include cruise missile spec
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Bombcrater
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.28 11:53:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Andreya
so, now we have basically have interceptor speed (5km+), half the DPS of battleship raven, can drop nukes, can go 1.2km while cloaked. and has better resists than interdictor and interceptors.
something is wrong here.
I don't see what the panic is about. Bombers are not a threat to Interceptors or Interdictors, for several reasons. An inty or dictor can out-run and out-maneuver a bomber because of their much lower mass. Get a web on the bomber and he's almost certainly dead. And the bomber can't really hurt you because cruise missiles cause tiny damage to an MWDing inty.
Bombs are the joker in the pack, of course. If you don't notice the bomb being launched it'll kill you easily. If you do notice, just orbit beyond 15km till it explodes then move back in and finish the bomber off. |
SumDum
AirHawk Alliance
Insomnia.
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Posted - 2007.05.28 13:18:00 -
[4]
How did you get the SB to 5km/s+? The way you put it, I might just have to put some skill points into cruise and get out of my Crow. Seriously.
on the bomb, 15 second travel time isn't much time to get anything big out of the way. So slow ships will take the hits, drones and fighters will probably be a little vulnerable since they are so buggy and slow to respond.
It sounds interesting and I have to get back on test to play with it asap.
Oh, and I agree with the op, the destroyers really could use a little attention. Spend some time adding a real use or boost to destroyers. I love that class of ship, it just folds so fast it's scary.
AHE wants YOU! |
Caletha Reborn
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Posted - 2007.05.28 15:32:00 -
[5]
Playing around with a stealth bomber setup gave me one that did 5.9k/sec, with 3 launchers, a cloak, a t2-mwd, small cap booster, 24km scram, 2 overdrive t2's and an mpac. (that was with a low-grade snake implant)
Somehow that gives stealth bomber a whole new feeling and I like it :D
Without fitting 3 launchers I could get my hound to do 6.9k/sec, but no damage makes it a bit useless.
Thats all in a straight line though, once that thing started turning, gave me a bit of a whale feeling...
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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2007.05.28 15:34:00 -
[6]
He must have full HG snakes, because my SB with full T2 OD in lows only went 8xx m/s cloaked.
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior)
I kill people ingame too.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
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Andreya
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Posted - 2007.05.28 16:53:00 -
[7]
sorry forgot to quote, but the dude a few posts above said the bombers no threat to a inty/dictor,
true. its no threat. andinty, or dictor can always run away, but i was playing with all the ships for ages on sisi.. i fly a sabre, and pretty much only a sabre, i know it inside and out. on sisi, i lost to a manticore... close range, no orbit. just plain muscle... ive NEVER lost a dual shield dictor to a bomber before on tranq... not even remotely close.
like i said. i could care less about these bombs, i think they are rather interesting, may need a little tweaking (for example they should not be able to resist their own explosions, cause your gonna get everyone droping the same bombs so they dont pop each other but do 100000 damage to their target, AND podding them all :P)
like i said. the theory is neat with bombs, keep em.. they may need to be toyed with. but the current setups for stealth bombers is just silly...
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Andreya
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Posted - 2007.05.28 16:56:00 -
[8]
hrmm, i may have found a solution to part of the problem.
they boosted the base speed for bombers. thats the main problem, having bombers fighitng like Crows.
cut their speed in half again, But, do 80% speed increase while cloaked or something instead. therefore, making it more beneficial to be cloaked, instead of zipping around like a inty on roids
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Bombcrater
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.28 18:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Andreya
i fly a sabre, and pretty much only a sabre, i know it inside and out. on sisi, i lost to a manticore... close range, no orbit. just plain muscle... ive NEVER lost a dual shield dictor to a bomber before on tranq... not even remotely close.
Let me point out the essential truth that you seem to have missed: a stealth bomber cannot kill an MWDing interdictor unless the pilot of the dictor is an idiot. This is true on both TQ and Sisi.
Cruise missile do trivial damage to fast targets. They won't hurt a dictor much less kill it. Bombs will insta-pop a dictor, but they have a 15 second timer. Just move out of rage - it takes a couple of seconds. You'll survive, the bomber pilot has wasted a 20m isk bomb and is going to die anyway.
Even with the Rev2 improvements bombers are still suicide ships, they just have a small chance to kill something before dying now. Please don't whine for a nerf that would put them back in the 'completely useless' category.  |
Ferocious FeAr
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.28 18:54:00 -
[10]
Stealth bombers that are going 5k+ have a snake set. You can also put on a gistii mwd to add to that. It's all about investing isk into making it faster, obviously anyone on sisi can get a snake set, now on TQ that's a bit different.
Don't hate me, learn to love me |
Andreya
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Posted - 2007.05.28 19:54:00 -
[11]
Bombcrater obviously you did not read everything and completely missed the point yes. thats great an all that a dictor inty can run away, thanks for pointing out something that i already acknowledged. on sisi the bomber was able to beat a tanked gank fitted sabre 1 vs 1 close range. which shouldnt happen. web or not. what happens when the bomber does have a web, he should be able to kill ships thats are specifically designed to kill frigate sized craft ?
and yes, thats 5km with gistii, no snakes. we've seen them go 7km+ and i heard one was going 9km (didnt see it tho)
During that nano battleships phase we went through. yea, we had to deal with domis goign 5km and such.... they weren't the problem. its the people who were able to get machariels goign 11km+ we will see the same thing here.
now, this is a testing server is it not? they want to hear our opinions if things need to be boosted or nerfed.
Now, if your telling me that a t2 frigate that :
can go 1.2km while cloaked
can go 5-7km with MWD
can do half the damage as a raven
can speed tank most missile based weapons
can speed tank most weapons with tracking
has more than enough slots for EW/tank/cap injector
can dictate range on short range ships (ei thorax
has better resists than intys and dictors
and can drop NUKES!
now.. think in your head how many ships that little thing is goign to be able to horribly bash 1 vs 1.
do YOU want to see every pvper in these things?
if your that naive to not think about what its currently capable of, dont come to me thinking im complaining. I'm just thinking ahead trying to prevent another nano-BS-like-phase.
this is a meant to be a constructive thread. if your going to post something in here, make a point.
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Ice Globe
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.05.28 20:11:00 -
[12]
Bombs look to be costing about 20 mill a pop so I doubt you'll be seeing them used for 1v1 s etc.
______________
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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2007.05.28 23:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ice Globe
Bombs look to be costing about 20 mill a pop so I doubt you'll be seeing them used for 1v1 s etc.
Bombs aren't the problem this thread is worried about, frigates that go almost as fast as inties doing 1/2 the damage of a cruise Raven to much smaller ships are the problem.
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior)
I kill people ingame too.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.05.29 00:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Andreya
Bombcrater obviously you did not read everything and completely missed the point yes. thats great an all that a dictor inty can run away, thanks for pointing out something that i already acknowledged. on sisi the bomber was able to beat a tanked gank fitted sabre 1 vs 1 close range. which shouldnt happen. web or not. what happens when the bomber does have a web, he should be able to kill ships thats are specifically designed to kill frigate sized craft ?
um you were still in a dictor?
you didn't move?
at all?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0SOAduKrTs
you poor noob
duh you got owned
your not suppose to stay still!
that is the ships greatest skill!
it's FAST
REALLY REALLY FAST
and thus it has a weaker tanking abillty.
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.05.29 00:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix
Originally by: Ice Globe
Bombs look to be costing about 20 mill a pop so I doubt you'll be seeing them used for 1v1 s etc.
Bombs aren't the problem this thread is worried about, frigates that go almost as fast as inties doing 1/2 the damage of a cruise Raven to much smaller ships are the problem.
what do mean the same damage to smaller ships?
it's running the same weapons as a raven.
it will do half dmg that a raven would do to a small ship as the rwven would do.
what's your point?
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CCP Fendahl
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Posted - 2007.05.29 01:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Andreya
hrmm, i may have found a solution to part of the problem.
they boosted the base speed for bombers. thats the main problem, having bombers fighitng like Crows.
cut their speed in half again, But, do 80% speed increase while cloaked or something instead. therefore, making it more beneficial to be cloaked, instead of zipping around like a inty on roids
We tested this at one point when we created the bombs. The drawback is that without a increased base speed the bomber won't make it out of the blast radius in time, unless they fire the MWD and then cloak. On the other hand bombers are not interceptor replacements, so the solution might be a compromise somewhere inbetween.
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Gor Kraon
Minmatar
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.29 02:17:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Gor Kraon on 29/05/2007 02:16:31
First thing i thought of when i read that base speed increase is: "how fast can i make that thing orbit..."
Yeah, i think its not a good idea to get them to orbit 4km/s+.
What is the cloak speed you are aiming for? 15 sec blast time, 15km radius? So 1.xkm/s or there about, fitted...
A hound with covert 4 and navigation 5 should hit around 1500 with 3 overdrive IIs, no gang bonus/implants, with the 40% speed/level cloaked bonus (currently not working).
Base speed really is the easiest fix... hmm. Could you make the 2x base speed only work when cloaked? Or an additional +100% speed when cloaked?
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.05.29 02:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CCP Fendahl
Originally by: Andreya
hrmm, i may have found a solution to part of the problem.
they boosted the base speed for bombers. thats the main problem, having bombers fighitng like Crows.
cut their speed in half again, But, do 80% speed increase while cloaked or something instead. therefore, making it more beneficial to be cloaked, instead of zipping around like a inty on roids
We tested this at one point when we created the bombs. The drawback is that without a increased base speed the bomber won't make it out of the blast radius in time, unless they fire the MWD and then cloak. On the other hand bombers are not interceptor replacements, so the solution might be a compromise somewhere inbetween.
Love all the game breaking design changes for the stealth bombers in order to accommodate the problems of the bomb design.
Because I said so...
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Andreya
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Posted - 2007.05.29 03:30:00 -
[19]
um you were still in a dictor?
you didn't move?
at all?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0SOAduKrTs
you poor noob
duh you got owned
your not suppose to stay still!
that is the ships greatest skill!
it's FAST
REALLY REALLY FAST
and thus it has a weaker tanking abillty.
o joy another guy who has nothing better to do then to call someone a noob
this is a test server where we were doing TESTS,get it through your head. on Tranq, a sabre can engage a bomber while both being point blank and immobile and come out on top. on sisi they cannot against these new bombers. it was just proving a point. so take your negative comments and go troll elsewhere.
And CCP im happy you guys are reading our threads and are taking into consideration our opinions. i hope you guys can figure out how to make the new bombers a fair ships to fly
back to the speed issue with them not being able to get out of the bomb blast in time, what if they have the lower base speed, with a very high cloaked speed boost, WITH an agility boost to the ship overall? so it can gain the speed itll need? (just a thought, but im trying to be productive)
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Andreya
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Posted - 2007.05.29 03:31:00 -
[20]
OR
This may work. when the cloak is activated, it lowers your sig radius. therefore the bomb will do minimal damage (if thats not too hard to program in) hence being able to survive your own bombs
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.05.29 04:04:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Andreya
um you were still in a dictor?
you didn't move?
at all?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0SOAduKrTs
you poor noob
duh you got owned
your not suppose to stay still!
that is the ships greatest skill!
it's FAST
REALLY REALLY FAST
and thus it has a weaker tanking abillty.
o joy another guy who has nothing better to do then to call someone a noob
this is a test server where we were doing TESTS,get it through your head. on Tranq, a sabre can engage a bomber while both being point blank and immobile and come out on top. on sisi they cannot against these new bombers. it was just proving a point. so take your negative comments and go troll elsewhere.
And CCP im happy you guys are reading our threads and are taking into consideration our opinions. i hope you guys can figure out how to make the new bombers a fair ships to fly
back to the speed issue with them not being able to get out of the bomb blast in time, what if they have the lower base speed, with a very high cloaked speed boost, WITH an agility boost to the ship overall? so it can gain the speed itll need? (just a thought, but im trying to be productive)
sorry
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Anti Derivative
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.29 04:10:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Anti Derivative on 29/05/2007 04:12:54
Edited by: Anti Derivative on 29/05/2007 04:09:07
add the speed of the bomber* to the target velocity (or subtract it from the explosion velocity) when calculating missile damage.
*(maybe multiplied by some coefficient, and/or bounded by some speed exemption to keep them useful in the traditional sense)
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Kimberly Possible
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Posted - 2007.05.29 04:14:00 -
[23]
I haven't tested this, so it may not be the case at the moment, but if their mass or agility is high enough that they can't orbit at interceptor speeds, then they should be fine. Going 9km/s only in a strait line doesn't do a whole lot of good when soloing since you wont be able to simultaneously speed tank and tackle the target. |
Laendra
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Posted - 2007.05.29 04:53:00 -
[24]
How about a speed boost while the bomb launcher is active? Or just make the launching ship immune to the effects of it's own weapons, much like Smartbombs? Either way, you don't have to mess with the base stats of the ship itself, preventing game-breaking mechanics coming into play.
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.05.29 05:06:00 -
[25]
or a mass speed boost of like 900% for a daring zoom filled escape!
duration 5 secs.
at 20 mil a bomb I don't think people will use this to gate run
and if bombs can't be used in 0.1 and above that's good too
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Andreya
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Posted - 2007.05.29 05:36:00 -
[26]
making them immune to their own bombs can be 'exploited' for example, 80% of my corp fly minmatar,,,
(remember isk is not a factor here as some of us may/could be/are billionaires)
we all jump into our hounds, all use explosive bombs, which i 'think' are nearly invincable to explosive damage. all we would do is **** out like 10 explosive bombs, and they wont hurt each others bombs, or ourselves. basically nuking everyhting in the bombs radius cept other hounds 
so yea, not a bad idea. but wont work
I still think, when you are cloaked, your sig radius drop to like 10, then ou will take minimal damage, of course, unless your decloaked and jump back up to a 40 sig rad 
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Andreya
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Posted - 2007.05.29 05:53:00 -
[27]
leandra, to reply to the 'speed bonus while bomb mod is active'
well its not a bad idea,but i would exploit like crazy,
like i said, for some of us, isk isnt an issue,,, and if i was in a hound, and i saw an inty running about, and i new he was gistii fitted or something expensive (therefore justifying the use of a bomb) i would drop the bomb for the speed boost, get a web on the inty and instapop the unplated uberspeed tanked inty with my Cruise missiles,all while ignoring the bomb. basically, paying 20 mill for a massive boost in speed so i can get in range of my prey (while completely throwing away a bomb)
also, i think a lot of people may just think its 'unrealistic' forexample, why, would turning on a big bomb launching bay speed up a ship
then again why do we hear those explosion in space
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RedClaws
Amarr
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.05.29 08:55:00 -
[28]
I personally saw a stealthbomber go 15km/s without gistii mods on the testserver last night. I'm not sure which race it was but it was zooming around like crazy decloaking and cloaking at 15.x km/s
I was only able to get mine up to 5.5km/s but that was already with a full pirate implant set (my skills for fast ships suck so i'm sure others can get that much speed without the implant set)
No clue on how the guy did it tbh
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MOS DEF
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.05.29 10:48:00 -
[29]
Comparing snaked up bombers to tech 2 fit non overdrive interceptors. You are a genius!
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.29 11:09:00 -
[30]
I dunno. You can get up to 160 dps with a stealth bomb, which is around 3 times what you can get with a crow, but it's still not THAT much. Hardly "half the dps of a raven".
And a SB definately does not tank better, a manticore has a good deal less hitpints than a crow, even with it's marginally better resistances. Look at the stats.
With decent speed skills and minor pimpage
nav5, acc con4, evasive 5, spaceship 5, 3% base and mwd speed hardwires, zors hyper link, 2 polycarbon rigs, 1 gistii mwd
I can orbit with 3.8km/s at 18k, 4.8k max speed. That with a hound (fastest SB) using 1 MPAC (needed to fit 3 cruise), 1 OD2 and 1 istab in the lows. No snakes. Thats decent, but not THAT high. My stilletto with a similar fit does almost 8k.
And, more importantly, it can sustain the MWD and a scram, The hound cannot, at least not without sacrificing speed. In order to sustain a gistii and a fleeting 20k dis I need (with max skills) a cap recharger2 and a cap power relay. If I want to use a t2 or faction scram thats a CR2 and 2 CPRs. With that I can orbit at 27k with 3.5k.
Thats IMO not enough to keep a paperthin ship alive long enough to justify spending 200 mil on it.
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