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New Stealth Bombers ='s Crow on crack

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Andreya	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:02:00 - [31] Originally by: Aramendel I dunno. You can get up to 160 dps with a stealth bomb, which is around 3 times what you can get with a crow, but it's still not THAT much. Hardly "half the dps of a raven". umm most ravens use cruise (in general) so lets do the math Manticore, 3 cruise missiles (with the 25% damage bonus i believe for frig 5) Raven, 6 cruise missiles (with 20% damage bonus for BS4 or 25% for BS5) now, drones arent much of an issue when your goign 5km, so we can leave them out of this Bomber 3 Cruise % Raven 6 cruise equals half the damage of a raven (maybe more if raven does not have BS5) As for not being able to run MWD and scram continuesly... Well, Gistii, Scram, Micro injector sounds like a safe bet for me. now i can perma scram, and be semi-nos resistent. personally i dont care if we leave em th way it is. cause you can damn well bet ill be training up my cruise launcher skills for one. what i DO care aboubt, is i dont want this ship to be overwhelming and have every damn pvper in one. i dont know about you guys, but it makes eve pretty damn boring for me at that point. (example, Nano BS's)
Raem Civrie	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:47:00 - [32] Edited by: Raem Civrie on 29/05/2007 12:49:19 Edited due to complete lack of knowledge. ---- I solemnly vow never to check the date of a topic or post.
Dixon Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:08:00 - [33] Originally by: Andreya Originally by: Aramendel I dunno. You can get up to 160 dps with a stealth bomb, which is around 3 times what you can get with a crow, but it's still not THAT much. Hardly "half the dps of a raven". umm most ravens use cruise (in general) so lets do the math Manticore, 3 cruise missiles (with the 25% damage bonus i believe for frig 5) Raven, 6 cruise missiles (with 20% damage bonus for BS4 or 25% for BS5) now, drones arent much of an issue when your goign 5km, so we can leave them out of this Bomber 3 Cruise % Raven 6 cruise equals half the damage of a raven (maybe more if raven does not have BS5) As for not being able to run MWD and scram continuesly... Well, Gistii, Scram, Micro injector sounds like a safe bet for me. now i can perma scram, and be semi-nos resistent. personally i dont care if we leave em th way it is. cause you can damn well bet ill be training up my cruise launcher skills for one. what i DO care aboubt, is i dont want this ship to be overwhelming and have every damn pvper in one. i dont know about you guys, but it makes eve pretty damn boring for me at that point. (example, Nano BS's) The RoF bonus is slightly better than a damage bonus, 25% rof = 33% damage. And the Manticore isn't going to be able to fit 3 BCU IIs. So, no, it's not half the dps of a Raven. Here's a fair comparison, a Manticore with 2 BCUIIs (I'm pretty sure it doesn't even fit) vs a Raven with drones and nothing else. Raven ( Hammerhead T2) 158 dps Raven ( Ogre T2) 184 dps Manticore ( Cruise Launcher T2 [T1 Missile (Best)] (2 Dm) ) 188 dps
Lyn Bunnions	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:11:00 - [34] Which is still a frigate doing 180 dps with 2k alpha applicable on any target size. Not all that cool.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:59:00 - [35] Edited by: Aramendel on 29/05/2007 14:00:59 Actually the SB on sisi have now a double damage bonus 25% damage from frig and 5% racial damage from cov ops. But as said already the raven has also spare room for BCUs and drones. A raven with 3 BCU2 does 450 dps with cruises. And can get on top of this around 150 dps from 5 med drones. Oh, and warrior2 can catch stuff going up to 6 km/s. Originally by: Lyn Bunnions Which is still a frigate doing 180 dps with 2k alpha applicable on any target size. Not all that cool. With the durability of a sick little girl.
Rigsta Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.05.29 14:38:00 - [36] I doubt we'll see quite this level of silliness on TQ. People pimp their ships and heads on Sisi to silly values because they can. On TQ where losses actually cost, we'll see the majority flying "standard" setups. Also the bombers are a good deal less agile, though an istab II on my nemesis sorts that out nicely. It is a bit disturbing how quick people are making these things. Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:01:00 - [37] Originally by: Lyn Bunnions Which is still a frigate doing 180 dps with 2k alpha applicable on any target size. Not all that cool. anyone forgetting that cruise missles are being slowed down to torp speed?
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:19:00 - [38] there tread has some good points but it's so full of nonsence I have to say something even if you won't listen to me http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g26.asp missle guide cruise missles have a explosion radius of 300 frigates have a rad of 40 that's a 87% reduction in damage an inty running an afterburner with good skills goes about 1200 m/s? cruise missles move 600 m/s with skills? that's a 15% damage reducion so how does a stand still fight determe any kind of balance? I understnd what your saying but like using a raven and not using missles and then complaning it can't kill something after rev2. please don't just bush me try and tell me what your point is and even if they were still it can not do 2k alpha damage to any size traget that's not how missles work
Gerard Valentine Gallente Direct Intent Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:53:00 - [39] Originally by: Andreya Originally by: Aramendel I dunno. You can get up to 160 dps with a stealth bomb, which is around 3 times what you can get with a crow, but it's still not THAT much. Hardly "half the dps of a raven". umm most ravens use cruise (in general) so lets do the math Manticore, 3 cruise missiles (with the 25% damage bonus i believe for frig 5) Raven, 6 cruise missiles (with 20% damage bonus for BS4 or 25% for BS5) now, drones arent much of an issue when your goign 5km, so we can leave them out of this Bomber 3 Cruise % Raven 6 cruise equals half the damage of a raven (maybe more if raven does not have BS5) As for not being able to run MWD and scram continuesly... Well, Gistii, Scram, Micro injector sounds like a safe bet for me. now i can perma scram, and be semi-nos resistent. personally i dont care if we leave em th way it is. cause you can damn well bet ill be training up my cruise launcher skills for one. what i DO care aboubt, is i dont want this ship to be overwhelming and have every damn pvper in one. i dont know about you guys, but it makes eve pretty damn boring for me at that point. (example, Nano BS's) covert ops skill gives a second damage bonus of 5% per level, makes for a bit more than half the cruise raven's damage The best way to make a small fortune pirating is to start with a large fortune.
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:45:00 - [40] Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 29/05/2007 18:44:09 Sounds like Destroyers will start to become popular, about time because anti bomber/bomb duty would be perfect for them. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
Andreya	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:02:00 - [41] Mother moon, i beleive the bombers are still getting the cruise missile explosion sig radius reduced. so sabically if you hit a immobile frig with a stealth bomber you do FULL damage. only speed will save you from a cruise missle
nickky01 The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:16:00 - [42] a nemesis with: 1mn MWD II 2 Overdrive Injector System II from a dead stop, i could not get out of my own bomb blast.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:27:00 - [43] Originally by: Andreya Mother moon, i beleive the bombers are still getting the cruise missile explosion sig radius reduced. so sabically if you hit a immobile frig with a stealth bomber you do FULL damage. only speed will save you from a cruise missle my head is spinning If they are lowering the sig radius for cruise missles then the the bomber won't be doing what it was made it to do. ok I understand the problem now.. actully I have a possible idea for a fix if you'll willing to hear me out. lower the sig radius of indys? by half. They're job is to get in fast and drop bubbles so why not make them harder to hit. maybe even lower it to 50 close to a frig. This would make it much more useful how about also increase it's agilty and it's lock speed Make it the fast frig killer it was built to be again? but instead of t1 frig killer it will be a t2 frig killer? or with the introduction of t3 ships mke a destoryer that gets cloaking bonuses :P
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:28:00 - [44] Originally by: nickky01 a nemesis with: 1mn MWD II 2 Overdrive Injector System II from a dead stop, i could not get out of my own bomb blast. they dont want them to be droped form a dead stop
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:48:00 - [45] Originally by: MotherMoon they dont want them to be droped form a dead stop No, but now that the ships are slow again it's still tricky even at full speed. Full speed without nanos/overdrives is about 950m/s on the Nemesis. We tested this, and even with gang bonuses getting us up to 1100m/s, it's still tricky to get away from your own bombs. Getting away from your own bombs should not be tricky. Dodging support ships and interceptors should be the hard part. CCP, please reconsider the speed change you made. Learn what it means to be Caldari with Omerta Syndicate
Lyn Bunnions	Posted - 2007.05.29 21:57:00 - [46] Why not just make bombers immune to racial bomb damage?
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.29 22:50:00 - [47] Originally by: Lyn Bunnions Why not just make bombers immune to racial bomb damage? Because not everyone in a corp's going to train for a specific bomber. If I'm in a Manticore I might be immune to Kinetic but then not the EM I have to drop because the fleet has more Purifiers. Learn what it means to be Caldari with Omerta Syndicate
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 22:54:00 - [48] I believe you should up the speed again and lower the agilty seems balanced
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:23:00 - [49] Originally by: MotherMoon I believe you should up the speed again and lower the agilty seems balanced Yeah, it's not that big a deal f a bomber goes by in a straight line at 5km/sec. Especialy if it only has the chance to launch a couple of salvos in that time...
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.29 23:45:00 - [50] Edited by: Kyoko Sakoda on 29/05/2007 23:44:56 I don't think most bombers will be going 5km/s anyway. Not everyone has snakes or polycarbs, and that's a rather expensive fit for a bomber. People use polycarbs and snakes on Crows because it makes them near-invincible. Because the bombers have so much mass, pilots will probably end up flying 2-2.5 if things are reverted, which is perfect. Learn what it means to be Caldari with Omerta Syndicate
Zakru Anul GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:47:00 - [51] Now first of all i fly bombers a lot. there my fav ships. ON TQ i run a Manticore with 2500 points of shields and a Small booster. this give me the tank i need too say 1 on 1 a ship i can handle on TQ> Intys and AF with no tank too Kin dmg i win hands down. i simply can tank them while they can not tank my 3 missles vollys. ON test. with bombs you need speed. has tanking of anykind hads sig too the manticore makeing it much bigger of a target for the bombs. before the change with a Unreal set up of full T2 gear and a full set of snakes i could get my manticore up too around 3.8 km, now at that speed my sig is very large and a bomb will insta gank my ship. in testing this system i found that if poeple nailed a lock on my bomber and landed a nos or web i would not be able too get out of blast range. Also with the Paper thin shields and armor the bombers a can be Lucky gun shot and blown up. happened twice now. Now Lets thorw in all the bugs with cloaking. 1 if your targeted you can;t cloak. which in it base of game fairness is fair. but is broken is Drones. that even if they won't chase you 150KM from the ship that sent them they retain there locks. at 300KM i was still locked by a Hobgoblin. Drones should not be able too lock something 300km away. I don't see Pure speed has being a good fix for them. but the ideal of a Large speed boost while cloaked seems great. if the bombers can reach speeds of 2500m/s while cloaked and only do say 250 out of it. then we got a system. set up the bombers so the cloak works much like a Microwarp drive on them. While cloak they go faster, gain speed at insane rates, this allows the taticed of warp in at range. cloak, move in too area, uncloak- drop bomb- recloak and Bline out of the blast zone.
xCOUNTx Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:11:00 - [52] Can't you simply warp off after dropping a bomb? If so, why would SB's need the speed as they can warp themselves out of the explosion radius?
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.30 03:14:00 - [53] Originally by: xCOUNTx Can't you simply warp off after dropping a bomb? If so, why would SB's need the speed as they can warp themselves out of the explosion radius? to slow
Andreya	Posted - 2007.05.30 03:43:00 - [54] Originally by: Lyn Bunnions Why not just make bombers immune to racial bomb damage? This wont work as you could then take a hound who has 99% explosive resist, then through on a kinetic/thermal resist rig, and two Energized adaptive nanos and be able to tank like a mofoe Another problem with making them uber fast while cloaked, is its gonna be damn near impossible to kill them in a gate camp, we can decloak recons and coverts easily enough, but something that moves 1.2+ while cloaked is goign to be impossible to catch... possibly having them take away part of the role of a covert ops, and no he cant warp while cloaked :P but at its speed it can fly offgrid then warp off
Andreya	Posted - 2007.05.30 03:47:00 - [55] Originally by: MotherMoon there tread has some good points but it's so full of nonsence I have to say something even if you won't listen to me http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g26.asp missle guide cruise missles have a explosion radius of 300 frigates have a rad of 40 that's a 87% reduction in damage an inty running an afterburner with good skills goes about 1200 m/s? cruise missles move 600 m/s with skills? that's a 15% damage reducion so how does a stand still fight determe any kind of balance? I understnd what your saying but like using a raven and not using missles and then complaning it can't kill something after rev2. please don't just bush me try and tell me what your point is and even if they were still it can not do 2k alpha damage to any size traget that's not how missles work MotherM, you know that stealthbombers have a bonus to their missile explosion radius right? their cruie missiles explosion is 40, not 300 like a normal cruise, so yes, when you shoot them at a Rifter, whos not moving, you do FULL damage
Andreya	Posted - 2007.05.30 03:53:00 - [56] Ok, so bringing up some of the problems people mentioned. we still have to sort out: getting yourself blown up becoming too fast and ending up like a Crow on roids its DPS and tanking ability (being able to kill dictors and AFs 1 vs 1 just sounds a little wierd with their new ablitys... why should this ship be able to destroy anythign destroyer sized and below, AND still be able to hurt larger ships) ability to go through gatecamps without any risk of being decloaked due to its high cloaked speeds
Slate Fistcrunch Direct Intent Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.05.30 04:12:00 - [57] I don't see why CCP is changing a ship to fit a new feature. The new feature should be implemented to fit the ship. When you eject from a ship, it still travels a bit in space and slows down. Why can't they make the bombs move like bombs do in the real world. When you drop the bomb have it going 10 km/s and give it the attributes so that it stops exactly at x km away from the ship. This way bomber pilots will have to become skilled in lining up for their bomb run, getting to the right distance, releasing the egg and turning away to avoid the blast. That's my 2 cents.
Zakru Anul GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 04:15:00 - [58] Originally by: Andreya Ok, so bringing up some of the problems people mentioned. we still have to sort out: getting yourself blown up becoming too fast and ending up like a Crow on roids its DPS and tanking ability (being able to kill dictors and AFs 1 vs 1 just sounds a little wierd with their new ablitys... why should this ship be able to destroy anythign destroyer sized and below, AND still be able to hurt larger ships) ability to go through gatecamps without any risk of being decloaked due to its high cloaked speeds i only want too point at one thing on that list. \ Bombers don't tank. now above i posted my bomber config that has 2500 points of shields and ect. but even with that it's no tank more of a stall. that ideal being that i can last longer then he can vs my weapons. a Dictor and AF frigs loseing too a bomber is all fair. what the bomber made for. takeing out small ship fast and from range. but saying that anyone in a bomber can go out and Pawn any dictor or AF is a tad over fact. I my self in my manticore will not fight caldri or Gal. AF, too much kin guard and i simply can't break it. on the other hand Dictors lose too it for most set up for loads of speed and gank. so when 3 missles hit for 500 each there paper thin ship breaks.
Andreya	Posted - 2007.05.30 08:06:00 - [59] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch I don't see why CCP is changing a ship to fit a new feature. The new feature should be implemented to fit the ship. When you eject from a ship, it still travels a bit in space and slows down. Why can't they make the bombs move like bombs do in the real world. When you drop the bomb have it going 10 km/s and give it the attributes so that it stops exactly at x km away from the ship. This way bomber pilots will have to become skilled in lining up for their bomb run, getting to the right distance, releasing the egg and turning away to avoid the blast. That's my 2 cents. thats a hot idea, its got my vote, lets get this game using more real piloting skills to get more benefeit.
Andreya	Posted - 2007.05.30 08:12:00 - [60] Originally by: Zakru Anul Originally by: Andreya Ok, so bringing up some of the problems people mentioned. we still have to sort out: getting yourself blown up becoming too fast and ending up like a Crow on roids its DPS and tanking ability (being able to kill dictors and AFs 1 vs 1 just sounds a little wierd with their new ablitys... why should this ship be able to destroy anythign destroyer sized and below, AND still be able to hurt larger ships) ability to go through gatecamps without any risk of being decloaked due to its high cloaked speeds i only want too point at one thing on that list. \ Bombers don't tank. now above i posted my bomber config that has 2500 points of shields and ect. but even with that it's no tank more of a stall. that ideal being that i can last longer then he can vs my weapons. a Dictor and AF frigs loseing too a bomber is all fair. what the bomber made for. takeing out small ship fast and from range. but saying that anyone in a bomber can go out and Pawn any dictor or AF is a tad over fact. I my self in my manticore will not fight caldri or Gal. AF, too much kin guard and i simply can't break it. on the other hand Dictors lose too it for most set up for loads of speed and gank. so when 3 missles hit for 500 each there paper thin ship breaks. im not reffering to tanking anything large, im just referring to a bomber, in my opinion, should not be able to go face to face with a AF or dictor and come out on top. it can shoot well over 100+km (i think :P) and do full damage, so it should stay at long range, a dictor or AF that manages to get that close and use its close range weapons definately 'should' win. i dont see how its balanced that the bomber should be the toughest of its class at short AND extremely long range. wheres the tactics in that?! (this is of course just my personal opinion)

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