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Goon bluff called... CCP reinstated!

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Phoebus Athenian Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.31 00:37:00 - [1] I must say the goon bluff was quite cunning... And it hit everywhere as mentioned in the link below: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=472 I was too sort of convinced, only because of the volume of information. I read the RSS from slashdot and usually take it seriously... It has to be said, however, that CCP gave a very good full report in very short notice. We must applaud this effort and.. ask for more of that kind of feedback. ---
Cynoka	Posted - 2007.05.31 00:55:00 - [2] Thankyou CCP, everything about it was suspect. Not the allegations just the accusations. Just a damn shame CCP cant really punish the wrongdoers without facing further allegations.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.31 00:57:00 - [3] Edited by: Tortun Nahme on 31/05/2007 00:56:15 sure they can add an extra 100000 billion isk to all goon bounties permanently hehehe then we will have macro goon farmers to deal with though
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.31 00:59:00 - [4] im truely disgusted with my fellow goons...How dare they plan and execute suce a barbaric assault upon CCP. Disgusting!
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.05.31 01:46:00 - [5] Originally by: Capt Rob im truely disgusted with my fellow goons...How dare they plan and execute suce a barbaric assault upon CCP. Disgusting! Yeah, but most people realise it is always just a few bad apples and not the whole barrel. A Minmater City... Cool! My Stats :)
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.05.31 01:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Capt Rob im truely disgusted with my fellow goons...How dare they plan and execute suce a barbaric assault upon CCP. Disgusting!
Aramova Gallente Middle Finger Technology Ghosts Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Capt Rob im truely disgusted with my fellow goons...How dare they plan and execute suce a barbaric assault upon CCP. Disgusting! -- Get the feeling SomthingAwful is going to happen to Mattani?
Minmatar Citizen 2468569 Destructive Infleunce	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:10:00 - [8] Originally by: Phoebus Athenian I must say the goon bluff was quite cunning... And it hit everywhere as mentioned in the link below: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=472 I was too sort of convinced, only because of the volume of information. I read the RSS from slashdot and usually take it seriously... It has to be said, however, that CCP gave a very good full report in very short notice. We must applaud this effort and.. ask for more of that kind of feedback. Post with your main
veritas primus	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:26:00 - [9] Hey Phoebus....you got a little something there....no right there! yea....on your chin.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:27:00 - [10] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 31/05/2007 03:25:50 Does silly drunk dance around bloated dead corpse of Conspiracy Theory Which Hunt Well, the rotting remains of the witch hunt are still stinking up the place a bit, but a bit of time under the harsh light of truth should just leave a dry withered husk as the only reminder that it ever existed. Quote: Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
Voculus E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:29:00 - [11] They still never addressed why BoB are the only alliance allowed to have personal contact with the Devs and GMs. Could have something to do with half of CCP being in BoB. _________________________________________________________
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:31:00 - [12] where has it been stated that they are? Cause I see no credible source for that info
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:39:00 - [13] Why should they punish the goons? Did BoB even get a slap on the wrist for their cheating? Also Known As
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:45:00 - [14] iunno, do they make any of their "player corrections" public?
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:52:00 - [15] More holes in that than in swiss cheese. But I won't be commenting on this crap. Play the game and lets hope CCP figures out how to run a real internal affairs department. ---- The Ridley Tree Productions Vault of Videos
Phoebus Athenian Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:56:00 - [16] Originally by: Ridley Tree More holes in that than in swiss cheese. But I won't be commenting on this crap. Play the game and lets hope CCP figures out how to run a real internal affairs department. Ridley, they're trying and we should applaud that, don't you think? Not too long ago there wasn't any internal affairs :P ---
Phoebus Athenian Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Voculus They still never addressed why BoB are the only alliance allowed to have personal contact with the Devs and GMs. Could have something to do with half of CCP being in BoB. Thats one of the reasons the goon propaganda got me... But sadly they used one valid point to twist the whole thing out of proportion. Its still a valid issue, however... Let the GMs who have friends in the game be warned ;) Metagaming == ban eventually. ---
Conrad Bland	Posted - 2007.05.31 04:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Why should they punish the goons? Did BoB even get a slap on the wrist for their cheating? Who are you kidding? T20 didn't even get a slap on the wrist for cheating..
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.31 04:02:00 - [19] I hope you guys don't mind that I'm stealing your sig.
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.31 04:53:00 - [20] CCP will do whats needed to keep the dollars pouring in its their game their determinations if they loose customers over unfair response then its also on their palte
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Phoebus Athenian I was too sort of convinced, only because of the volume of information. I read the RSS from slashdot and usually take it seriously... While I am glad you kept an open mind I find it rather shocking the number of people who jumped on the Goon bandwagon. I thought the age of the Salem Witch Trials was long past us but seems it is not so. The rush to judgement was appalling with people calling for CCP heads on a platter. Whatever happened to critical thinking? Is this a lost art? Heck, people's innate bullcrap meter should have pegged before getting halfway through the Goon screed. - A Dev openly joining a corp for all to see being up to no good? C'mon...do you REALLY think anyone would be so stupid if the intent was to "spy" or otherwise cause trouble? With all their Dev powers isn't it FAR more likely that if he wanted to get some info he could have gone about it in a way they would never have known about? - A letter from a disgruntled ISD who was canned. Hmm...while not making the letter false it is certainly something one has to consider when thinking on the person's veracity. - The whole thing is brought to light three weeks after it happened rather than immediately. - A concerted and coordinated effort is put together to spam CCP rather than it just being a single whistle blower. - The whole effort to slander CCP is timed across a holiday weekend. Dunno about you but the whole thing stunk badly. That all does not necessarily make what they were on about untrue but it is more than enough to wonder at it all and not go all Chicken Little and form up lynch mobs.
DiuxDium Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Voculus They still never addressed why BoB are the only alliance allowed to have personal contact with the Devs and GMs. Could have something to do with half of CCP being in BoB. They're not. Proof of half of CCP being in BoB. You sound like nothing more than a fool making such accusations with no evidence. You should spend more time in eve, and less on the forums. Maybe you wouldn't be so bitter if you did. ------------- [En] - So....I think the devs don't like me.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:19:00 - [23] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 31/05/2007 05:19:16 Originally by: Voculus They still never addressed why BoB are the only alliance allowed to have personal contact with the Devs and GMs. Could have something to do with half of CCP being in BoB. Proof? I recall awhile back in some Dev Post somewhere from CCP Arkanon (I think) that he looked in to the distribution of CCP employees in EVE and found they were well and truly spread out all over the place (different alliances, corps, regions, etc.). Getting tired of the ubiquitous, "BOB = Dev" posts. While not immediately relevant to the situation at hand the latest fiasco has revived that old mantra. Would be nice if he posted stats on that again (not who is where, just that the employees are suitably represented all over the place). EDIT: Disclosure -- I am not in BOB, have never been in BOB with any character ever. Sold a few some ships once is about it and I kinda know a few but then I know people in lots of Alliances.
Christopher Scott Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.31 06:51:00 - [24] I like how much of the hearsay is coming from alts. Since when was it proven that Goons coordinated anything? All I see are accusations being made at CCP, and they are making allegations back. There is no proof at all given. Originally by: DB Preacher I may be a muppet on these forums and wind peeps up massively but what is going on here is waaaaay over the edge of reasonable morality.
Sharkikke	Posted - 2007.05.31 07:04:00 - [25] I like how in the petition he said "ingame members of ISD new IDIOT" and nothing happened....He must have some MAJOR influence in CCP or he wouldnt get away with calling anyone an idiot, let alone an ISD member. Petition poster sure sounds like he knows alot about ISD members and there "rank" status..... Lets just hope the petitioner uses lube.
cal nereus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.05.31 07:06:00 - [26] I honestly don't expect CCP to do anything to Goons, and I think these accusations by the Goons against CCP won't go anywhere either. There's just a lot of ****-talk back and forth, but nothin' will happen. And that's how it should be IMO. Let the Goons raise their voices, and let CCP just run its little game. There's little to no evidence of a coordinated effort of foul play from either party, and I say let individuals take the flak.
Galan Amarias Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.31 07:29:00 - [27] Originally by: Christopher Scott I like how much of the hearsay is coming from alts. Since when was it proven that Goons coordinated anything? All I see are accusations being made at CCP, and they are making allegations back. There is no proof at all given. I've been wanting to chime in on this all day and this is the opening. Proof eh? Ok what were the allegations? All but one proved to be blatantly false on the dev blog, we got screenies of dev tools to prove it unless you want to be in the photoshop paranoia crowd. Then you may want to claim there was no moon landing and that the cold war was a sham. What hasn't been addressed? Devs using windows messenger or some other 3rdpy software to talk to people who play the game and are in BoB. How can you prove or disprove that? It's like proving that Jesus liked to wink. There is no evidence available, period. They can't monitor a 3rd party program. They can't dictate to their employees what they are and are not allowed to do in their free time. Can you imagine the free speach implications if they tried to prevent at-home MSN use to anyone? Any charges would be based on hearsay at best unless you make the instalation of CCP spyware on your home pc mandatory for employment. You better belive that would get them sued and rightly so. Is it possible that some ccp folks know some BOB folks? Sure the game is four years old and was tiny when it got running. In a small comunity people are going to meet. What should be addressed is what can BOB get from that interaction? Some super conduit of dev wonders? IA seems to be pretty on top of that. Anything BOB gets will leave a trail. So what does it come down to. Either you are a conspiricy theorist and your faith in the devs has been irevocably shattered, and you should probably move on because you're going to be jumping at shadows all over. Or you realize this was BS and they responded as quickly and throughly as possible pushing close to some of their NDA agrements to give us internal screenies and the game is still the coolest thing online so you have fun. As for proving the CCP allegations agains the Goons, it's self evident to anyone who isn't predjuduced against the devs. I'll hit the high points again, 3 week delay from incident to propaganda swarm. Propaganda hits on 3 day weekend. Propaganda hits within hours in droves on multiple sights and is largely baseless, except for the "BOB Cheats" mantra running through. When you want to resolve legitimate concerns you contat the other party and open a rational dialog. When you want to resolve illegitimate ambition you use a trick called "The Big Lie" I'm sure the ploy is defined on Wikipedia and you could get a good feel for it by watching Karl Rove. Me I'm for reason, the devs gave us what they could and the game still kicks <explative>. I'll be paying $15.00 again next month and loving it. -Galan
CaptainSeafort Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.05.31 08:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Blind Man Originally by: Capt Rob im truely disgusted with my fellow goons...How dare they plan and execute suce a barbaric assault upon CCP. Disgusting! NOOOO! BLINDMAN! youre sig! ive always loved your "grapple" sig, its infact saved on my HD "Planets and moons no longer hitch rides on player ships. Their towel privileges have been revoked." HHGG Lives on in EVE!
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.31 08:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Voculus They still never addressed why BoB are the only alliance allowed to have personal contact with the Devs and GMs. Could have something to do with half of CCP being in BoB. GoonSwarm's Dramabomb II strikes Voculus perfectly, wrecking what little semblance of intelligence he had. Pull your head out of your ass and stop assuming only BoB members are friends with CCP devs. There is a decent likelyhood of ANY veteran player of Eve (particularly one who has been to events such as fanfests) having contact with devs out of game. A number of people even had the sack to admit it in the wake of GS's dramabomb.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.05.31 08:32:00 - [30] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Phoebus Athenian I was too sort of convinced, only because of the volume of information. I read the RSS from slashdot and usually take it seriously... While I am glad you kept an open mind I find it rather shocking the number of people who jumped on the Goon bandwagon. I thought the age of the Salem Witch Trials was long past us but seems it is not so. The rush to judgement was appalling with people calling for CCP heads on a platter. Whatever happened to critical thinking? Is this a lost art? Heck, people's innate bullcrap meter should have pegged before getting halfway through the Goon screed. - A Dev openly joining a corp for all to see being up to no good? C'mon...do you REALLY think anyone would be so stupid if the intent was to "spy" or otherwise cause trouble? With all their Dev powers isn't it FAR more likely that if he wanted to get some info he could have gone about it in a way they would never have known about? - A letter from a disgruntled ISD who was canned. Hmm...while not making the letter false it is certainly something one has to consider when thinking on the person's veracity. - The whole thing is brought to light three weeks after it happened rather than immediately. - A concerted and coordinated effort is put together to spam CCP rather than it just being a single whistle blower. - The whole effort to slander CCP is timed across a holiday weekend. Dunno about you but the whole thing stunk badly. That all does not necessarily make what they were on about untrue but it is more than enough to wonder at it all and not go all Chicken Little and form up lynch mobs. Pipe Down SKUNK
Filthy Pierre Gallente Laughing Fox Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.31 08:36:00 - [31] (Boy, this forum w***ing is addictive!) Has anyone considered that CCP might just possibly be a BoB-sponsored event? Yeah, that's the ticket! CCP is a BoB-designed entity to rule the metagame universe! Where the heck did I put that copper mesh beanie...? FP
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.05.31 09:00:00 - [32] Originally by: Galan Amarias How can you prove or disprove that? It's like proving that Jesus liked to wink. There is no evidence available, period. They can't monitor a 3rd party program. They can't dictate to their employees what they are and are not allowed to do in their free time. Can you imagine the free speach implications if they tried to prevent at-home MSN use to anyone? Any charges would be based on hearsay at best unless you make the instalation of CCP spyware on your home pc mandatory for employment. You better belive that would get them sued and rightly so. -Galan Not that I buy into 100% of the conspiracy fluff that's floating around ATM, but I'd like to address this little chunk of fail. Ever read one of the nastier corporate NDAs? I've seen provisions to monitor your personal phone calls. You sign the agreement, you agree, so long as they don't directly violate your constitutional rights (assuming we're dealing with a nation governed by rule of law). Last I checked, outside dissemination of trade secrets doesn't qualify as protected speech. You're still right, though. People are arguing both sides of a point that they will never, ever have any sort of evidence for or against.
Aleranie	Posted - 2007.05.31 09:57:00 - [33] Edited by: Aleranie on 31/05/2007 09:56:50 The only problem that really concerned people, was the allegation that Bob could bypass the existing petition system because they had a "large" number of devs on contact. Bob directors THEMSELVES posted that they had this, and asserted it was friendly contact only. The fact that a petition was filed in the matter of the isd pilot getting the boot does lend credence to the fact that it was properly handled.... But that's not enough. If ccp had never been caught cheating, or even if they had consistently taken harsh responses to it, it might be. But it's not. CCP has been caught sweeping stuff under the rug, and they need to go a little farther. Run an audit to find out if inappropriate contact is going on. The T20 thing hasnt been forgotten. It was a massive breach of trust, both in how it was handled and the sheer scope of cheating. Do not mistake my meaning. I love this game. It is the only game like it, and the devs are doing a great job of making it better with each successive patch. It just makes me very sad to even consider that there might not be an even playing field.
John Thorlake	Posted - 2007.05.31 10:01:00 - [34] Sure fine, things was not so bad, the Dev only did his job and so forth and so on. BUT was that really the issue? The only thing CCP has done now with all their pictures and petition quotes is to give the Dev aliby to go check out rival corps problems as soon as they have a petition logged. I am sure that he hesitated a long time before embarking upon his "good deed" journey. Or perhaps he is just a good but silly guy that did not think of the consequenses before helping out. Why just not let a Dev that has no good or bad ties to the corp handle the petition instead? Or are you trying to tell me that this dev dude was the only person at CCP that was able to handle the problem? First off I will never get why CCP is letting there own staff play EvE wich is the real root to all evil. I myself am building systems for customers and I dont have to be working in their systems to know where to look when someone reports an error. I am not even allowed due to the sensitivity of their customer related data. For heavens sake I built the **** in the first place i know everything and what to test. Lets say for argument sake the Devs need to be in the game and "observe" like regular players for some strange reason I cant possibly understand. Then why not as a free roaming camera, invisible ship or something equal. They have built the frikkin game why not build the functionality to run maintenace the usual NEUTRAL way? If they need to test stuff, do it on the TEST server. I thought that is why it is there. That way no one will question if a dev takes a plunge into the database and checks for errors, joins a corp to test stuff or help players out in all imaginable situations. Neutrality is essential and the ONLY way CCP can make ALL accusations and rumours go away. It is so easy it is silly. It does not matter if they have an internal affairs department (Inside their own company my god.). People will still think there is something rotten in CCP. My point to all this is that the question concerning the reason WHY he did help out should never have to arise. And would never arise if CCP removed their staff from participating activly in the game itself. Silly buggers! :)
Darcuese Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.31 10:11:00 - [35] Edited by: Darcuese on 31/05/2007 10:11:34 Originally by: John Thorlake Lets say for argument sake the Devs need to be in the game and "observe" like regular players for some strange reason I cant possibly understand. Then why not as a free roaming camera, invisible ship or something equal. They have built the frikkin game why not build the functionality to run maintenace the usual NEUTRAL way? This particular part of your post show that basics of your concept are weak, IMHO. Combination of factors that can be calculated does not make something solid without expiriance that cant be calculated easy. Its like PvP abilities in a way. PPL can fly better ships with better skills and still lose 1 on 1 against weaker ship of pilot with weaker skills. Why is that? Only couse of expiriance that one them have and other one dont have. I admit, its not best example, but there are things that ppl need to be personaly involved in order to understand them. They are not just writen somehwere so others can fully use them and understand them as intended me, myself and I ------>
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.31 10:15:00 - [36] The thing is, if CCP didn't play their game, it wouldn't be the great game it is now. If they don't play it, they don't really understand it. If they don't understand it, they can't make well informed decisions on how to change it. As for the t20 incident. I saw this a bit of a non-event even when it all exploded early this year. Ok so a dev cheated a while back, he gave some mediocre BPO's to an alliance with enough resources not to need them anyway. But this happened 6 months prior to the dramabomb, and CCP dealt with it. They chose not to fire the dev in question. Who the hell are you people to say they should have fired him? CCP is not your company and you have no say in how it's run. It was a CCP internal affair and they didn't even have to say anything about it, because their internal disciplinary procedures are nobody elses damned business.
Coupo Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.31 10:55:00 - [37] Originally by: Voculus They still never addressed why BoB are the only alliance allowed to have personal contact with the Devs and GMs. Could have something to do with half of CCP being in BoB. Right, firstly I don't know who is and who is not a dev so I wont say I will. That being said, I am adamant that there are more devs outside of BoB than are in it. Also BoB are not the only ones with personal contact with devs or GMs. Ok heres a simple task list for everyone to carry out so you to can have Devs on your msn. 1. Get a Job 2. Save money 3. GOTO AN EVE MEET 4. MEET AND BEFRIEND A DEV, p.s. they're mature and funny guys so if you're the same they might like you back. example: see last EVE Meet EVE TV footage. 5. After you have befriended the dev, ask for his or her msn and say you wish to remain in contact because you like them and wish to build up a further relationship online. For the purposes of this tutorial it will be As good buddies only. 6. Add them to your msn, and begin chatting. Now i'm sure as you now have your own dev on the msn list you'll be tempted to discuss things about EVE. If you have been playing for a long time i'm sure the dev will take into account your opinion, because he or she will respect you as a person. Somethings will not obtain you this though, and these are constant *****ing, whining, and general antisocial behaviour and asking stupid questions at the EVE Meet. I Shoot first, ask questions about your veldspar mining technique later
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.31 11:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Coupo Originally by: Voculus They still never addressed why BoB are the only alliance allowed to have personal contact with the Devs and GMs. Could have something to do with half of CCP being in BoB. Right, firstly I don't know who is and who is not a dev so I wont say I will. That being said, I am adamant that there are more devs outside of BoB than are in it. Also BoB are not the only ones with personal contact with devs or GMs. Ok heres a simple task list for everyone to carry out so you to can have Devs on your msn. 1. Get a Job 2. Save money 3. GOTO AN EVE MEET 4. MEET AND BEFRIEND A DEV, p.s. they're mature and funny guys so if you're the same they might like you back. example: see last EVE Meet EVE TV footage. 5. After you have befriended the dev, ask for his or her msn and say you wish to remain in contact because you like them and wish to build up a further relationship online. For the purposes of this tutorial it will be As good buddies only. 6. Add them to your msn, and begin chatting. Now i'm sure as you now have your own dev on the msn list you'll be tempted to discuss things about EVE. If you have been playing for a long time i'm sure the dev will take into account your opinion, because he or she will respect you as a person. Somethings will not obtain you this though, and these are constant *****ing, whining, and general antisocial behaviour and asking stupid questions at the EVE Meet. This man speaketh the truth Factual devblog strikes goonswarm propoganda , wrecking for toys thrown out of the pram damage
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.31 11:10:00 - [39] Originally by: Coupo Originally by: Voculus They still never addressed why BoB are the only alliance allowed to have personal contact with the Devs and GMs. Could have something to do with half of CCP being in BoB. Right, firstly I don't know who is and who is not a dev so I wont say I will. That being said, I am adamant that there are more devs outside of BoB than are in it. Also BoB are not the only ones with personal contact with devs or GMs. Ok heres a simple task list for everyone to carry out so you to can have Devs on your msn. 1. Get a Job 2. Save money 3. GOTO AN EVE MEET 4. MEET AND BEFRIEND A DEV, p.s. they're mature and funny guys so if you're the same they might like you back. example: see last EVE Meet EVE TV footage. 5. After you have befriended the dev, ask for his or her msn and say you wish to remain in contact because you like them and wish to build up a further relationship online. For the purposes of this tutorial it will be As good buddies only. 6. Add them to your msn, and begin chatting. Now i'm sure as you now have your own dev on the msn list you'll be tempted to discuss things about EVE. If you have been playing for a long time i'm sure the dev will take into account your opinion, because he or she will respect you as a person. Somethings will not obtain you this though, and these are constant *****ing, whining, and general antisocial behaviour and asking stupid questions at the EVE Meet. OMG...The wisdom displayed here is mindblowing. So SIGNED!
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.05.31 11:18:00 - [40] Narrr, buy them lots of drinks untill they pass out, then make pics of them with another guy in bed and blackmail them into giving u a titan, or kill BoB, or add fluffy bunnies to the game, or whatever CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Valan	Posted - 2007.05.31 11:19:00 - [41] Edited by: Valan on 31/05/2007 11:19:03 You have to thank t20 for a being a cheating git in the first place or the current situation would be much worse. IMO CCP went into arrogant mode, they were experiencing some success and they thought they didn't have to justify anything to the player base. You could see it with various border line exploit issues and then the t20 thing came out. Halfway through trying to tell the player base it was none of their business someone had a moment of clarity and decided the players did matter and came clean (to be honest, it's minor fraud anywhere else you would be sacked but you can't do that 6 months later). They also made future provision for similar occurrences. So t20 inadvertently prepared CCP for the Goon onslaught. Even though it occurred at the weekend CCP were on the ball. If they had handled the Goon story the same as the previous one I think CCP would still be in a mess now. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Duff Ray	Posted - 2007.05.31 11:21:00 - [42] My question would be if the petition on the ISD reporter was legit, then how did the admiral guy know which ISD repoter it was, since it didn't mention his name in the petition?
Hans Roaming Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.31 11:23:00 - [43] Edited by: Hans Roaming on 31/05/2007 11:21:57 Originally by: John Thorlake The only thing CCP has done now with all their pictures and petition quotes is to give the Dev aliby to go check out rival corps problems as soon as they have a petition logged. I am sure that he hesitated a long time before embarking upon his "good deed" journey. Or perhaps he is just a good but silly guy that did not think of the consequenses before helping out. You know for sure this guy has a char in BoB? Originally by: John Thorlake Why just not let a Dev that has no good or bad ties to the corp handle the petition instead? Or are you trying to tell me that this dev dude was the only person at CCP that was able to handle the problem? I have looked hard and can't see the link between CCP Sharkbai and BoB, can you point me to where someone claims this is true and what they say backs it up? Originally by: John Thorlake First off I will never get why CCP is letting there own staff play EvE wich is the real root to all evil. I myself am building systems for customers and I dont have to be working in their systems to know where to look when someone reports an error. I am not even allowed due to the sensitivity of their customer related data. For heavens sake I built the ** in the first place i know everything and what to test. A business system is not like a game that is as complex as EVE, this is afaik the largest client server system in the world. Massively parallel, hugely dynamic its an order of magnitude more complex than a typical commercial system. Originally by:** John Thorlake Lets say for argument sake the Devs need to be in the game and "observe" like regular players for some strange reason I cant possibly understand. Then why not as a free roaming camera, invisible ship or something equal. They have built the frikkin game why not build the functionality to run maintenace the usual NEUTRAL way? If they need to test stuff, do it on the TEST server. I thought that is why it is there. That way no one will question if a dev takes a plunge into the database and checks for errors, joins a corp to test stuff or help players out in all imaginable situations. Am sure they do as you say already as mentioned by their method of catching people out POS bowling, however in order to get a feel for what works and doesn't and also how something as dynamic as combat works then you simply have to DO. Personally I take comfort in the fact that CCP eats its own dog food as that is a proven method for maximising quality. I also trust them to be vigilant about not taking actions as a whole that will destroy their income from the player base. Originally by: John Thorlake Neutrality is essential and the ONLY way CCP can make ALL accusations and rumours go away. It is so easy it is silly. It does not matter if they have an internal affairs department (Inside their own company my god.). People will still think there is something rotten in CCP. IA being inside CCP is fine, I mean we're not talking about the police or something other than a computer game. Also as I pointed out the self interest of CCP to make money is a strong motivational factor in ensuring that impartiality is the rule rather than the exception. Is it in CCPs interest to have one group of players be treated more favourable than another if the result is that this will trash their bottom line? I don't think so, do you? Originally by: John Thorlake My point to all this is that the question concerning the reason WHY he did help out should never have to arise. And would never arise if CCP removed their staff from participating activly in the game itself. Silly buggers! :) As pointed out above I feel you're wrong about devs being in the game as I trust them to have a self interest in the whole to not show favouritism, assuming anything else is to presume that they hold their friendships in game above that of their own income or the company surviving as a whole.
John Thorlake	Posted - 2007.05.31 11:23:00 - [44] Originally by: Darcuese Edited by: Darcuese on 31/05/2007 10:11:34 Its like PvP abilities in a way. PPL can fly better ships with better skills and still lose 1 on 1 against weaker ship of pilot with weaker skills. Why is that? Only couse of expiriance that one them have and other one dont have. Lets use your "poor example" shall we. And you don¦t think that was calculated and tested before they released the game? You seriously think that they created that kind of skill ladder and then released it to the players and had to play it themselves just to understand how it would work? If to save alot of production time that is a way yes. Turning players into testers. But somehow I dont think that was the way this is done. You give too much credit to the "sandbox". There are clearly defined rules. Factored, programmed, tested and documented before the game even reach the users. Then to their surprise people do stuff to the mechanics they had not thought of. And those things get adressed/changed. There are still no need for the Devs to be playing the game amongst the real playerbase. IMHO. It's like saying that they do not know what they have created themselves. Test it and play it on the test server. But do not participate in it yourselves. It will only create bad things despite the good the intentions are. And I understand the intentions but the outcome is worse than the benefita IMHO again.
John Thorlake	Posted - 2007.05.31 11:33:00 - [45] Originally by: Hans Roaming Edited by: Hans Roaming on 31/05/2007 11:21:57 As pointed out above I feel you're wrong about devs being in the game as I trust them to have a self interest in the whole to not show favouritism, assuming anything else is to presume that they hold their friendships in game above... I can understand how you see this. And I hope more people would feel the same way you do. But clearly this is not the case here. Just read the loads and loads of post concerning this. And I am only adressing the problem. Not putting any weight on any side of the allegations/rumours and such. I dont care who said what and when to whomever. In the end there are more Bad publicity than good out there due to all of this. And as I see it it is only one "official" way out of this. Besides turning more than half the playerbase around. Which can be hard to do. I hope more people would see abit further ahead as you have.
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.31 12:39:00 - [46] well you all can call bob devs and what not but if you want to get out to 0.0 you will be renting from us ....be mad at your friends and alliance mates that cant get their crap organised enough to give us a fight let alone take regions back from bob so flame on r-tards on topic ccp thanks for your celerity in the responce the fact that the smear campaign was timed as it was sucks hope your families understand and precious drinking time lost=( weak sauce Originally by: MrTripps combat in Jita is as slow and ugly as watching senior citizens copulate.
Caztra Tor	Posted - 2007.05.31 12:47:00 - [47] Edited by: Caztra Tor on 31/05/2007 12:48:39 Yea, Well, as long as T20 works for the company, Bob has a friend in CCP. Period. Oh, and all that is documented. Easy answer, Kill Bob and their friends. Unseat them from their region in space. That is the proof I need. I need to see them fall before I will believe CCP is all above board and honest and all that . . . because then it won't matter; because then we will be playing our game and not theirs. But that is just me. Caztra Tor
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.31 12:50:00 - [48] If you want a friend in CCP attend the Fanfest '07. If you still think, CCP is showing favorites ingame I have some ocean front property you can buy cheap...in arizona. I think CCP should punish GS...put all their security status to -10.0 during down time...and dont tell them. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Frances Ducoir Academy of Decadence	Posted - 2007.05.31 13:10:00 - [49] Originally by: Coupo Ok heres a simple task list for everyone to carry out so you to can have Devs on your msn. 1. Get a Job 2. Save money 3. GOTO AN EVE MEET 4. MEET AND BEFRIEND A DEV, p.s. they're mature and funny guys so if you're the same they might like you back. example: see last EVE Meet EVE TV footage. 5. After you have befriended the dev, ask for his or her msn and say you wish to remain in contact because you like them and wish to build up a further relationship online. For the purposes of this tutorial it will be As good buddies only. 6. Add them to your msn, and begin chatting. this sounds like an "adopt a dev" program :D pay 10 bucks per month to improve a poor devs life. (all the money will be invested into precious barley juice helping your fav dev through bad situations)
Kaemper Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.31 13:19:00 - [50] Edited by: Kaemper on 31/05/2007 13:20:18 Its sad that an entire player segment (goons) would be willing to destroy the reputation of a game and a company in a vain attempt to get ahead.. one has to wonder y they dont just leave the game altogether - their so called leaders already have.. tnx for that btw. Alot can be said about BoB, but the recent distorted propaganda campaign from the goons and partially the coalition in general vs CCP goes way beyond whatever rubbish BoB has done in the past - at least they did it in a manner that didnt affect the game in general. I couldnt care less what happens to goons, but the ppl who were a part of this should rly consider what they r doing here. Maybe its time to pss off and let the ppl who actually enjoy playing EVE do so. Sounds like a case of "if we cant win, we'll ruin it for every1 else and **** and moan in the process". Well you wont succeed and you'll only portray urselves as the tw*ts u are.
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.31 13:22:00 - [51] Poor devs, that 3 day weekend must have been the longest time in years they've had to remain sober . I'll adopt one so long as he's house trained and doesn't smell too bad (rules out most of them I'll bet ).
Imager GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.31 13:26:00 - [52] Originally by: Kaemper Edited by: Kaemper on 31/05/2007 13:20:18 Its sad that an entire player segment (goons) would be willing to destroy the reputation of a game and a company in a vain attempt to get ahead.. one has to wonder y they dont just leave the game altogether - their so called leaders already have.. tnx for that btw. Alot can be said about BoB, but the recent distorted propaganda campaign from the goons and partially the coalition in general vs CCP goes way beyond whatever rubbish BoB has done in the past - at least they did it in a manner that didnt affect the game in general. I couldnt care less what happens to goons, but the ppl who were a part of this should rly consider what they r doing here. Maybe its time to pss off and let the ppl who actually enjoy playing EVE do so. Sounds like a case of "if we cant win, we'll ruin it for every1 else and **** and moan in the process". Well you wont succeed and you'll only portray urselves as the tw*ts u are. qft. goonies
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.31 13:34:00 - [53] Glad to see a much improved response. The over-inflated claims debunked, and a nice, solid statement from the internal affairs team that all complaints about ccp staff and volunteers are to be routed through them and the petition system. This is about as good a response gets, kids. A problematic situation occured with a bad result, so it was investigated, and the systems put in place (or the players reminded of them being in place, in this case) to prevent it happening again. Beats 19 kinds of crap out of the response to the t20 situation, which was essentially "There is no T20."
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.31 13:35:00 - [54] Edited by: Elmicker on 31/05/2007 13:33:58 double, disregard
Pvt Sammich Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.31 14:51:00 - [55] Yeah I love how it has become an open season on goons but hey we accually like it. Quote: Either CCP employees need to remove all BoB contacts and place them on ignore or CCP should publish the MSN contacts for all members to be able to have a direct line to the developers. -
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.31 15:14:00 - [56] bahaha boo hoo poor goonswarm, unseat bob for us cause we cant do it ourselves Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
Aria Jenneth Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.31 15:17:00 - [57] Originally by: John Thorlake I can understand how you see this. And I hope more people would feel the same way you do. But clearly this is not the case here. Just read the loads and loads of post concerning this. And I am only adressing the problem. Not putting any weight on any side of the allegations/rumours and such. I dont care who said what and when to whomever. In the end there are more Bad publicity than good out there due to all of this. And as I see it it is only one "official" way out of this. Besides turning more than half the playerbase around. Which can be hard to do. I hope more people would see abit further ahead as you have. "Lots and lots of posts," eh. Yes-- posts by GoonFleet. Short on credibility, just a little. What we see here, on either side, is the voice of the vocal minority. The forum game is rigged in that it's played only by those who care enough to post. My guess is that, if everyone who really thinks CCP favors BoB unfairly were to quit, the game would be down by maybe a few thousand players. Right now, that would be fine with me.
Galan Amarias Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.31 15:19:00 - [58] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Galan Amarias some stuff you can see near the bottom of page 1 -Galan Not that I buy into 100% of the conspiracy fluff that's floating around ATM, but I'd like to address this little chunk of fail. Ever read one of the nastier corporate NDAs? I've seen provisions to monitor your personal phone calls. You sign the agreement, you agree, so long as they don't directly violate your constitutional rights (assuming we're dealing with a nation governed by rule of law). Last I checked, outside dissemination of trade secrets doesn't qualify as protected speech. You're still right, though. People are arguing both sides of a point that they will never, ever have any sort of evidence for or against. Ahh but that's kind of the clincher eh? I work in Fraud prevention for one of the major American telecom companies. Trust me my NDA was about as toothy as you could want. Even there and even with the contract labor who should be insta-can-able a rash of lawsuits by outgoing losers has made getting rid of useless people vastly more difficult. What constitutes a "trade secret" certainly anything that was released about the mechanical side of the universe, how their interface functions graphics, software secrets, yeah they could certainly start a row over that. But "Hey man how you been?" on MSN off duty? "Did you see that fight in X?" "Stuff blew up" How do you prove that discussion of events within a fictious universe violates an NDA? More to the point it looks like CCP got blind sided by the need to have contractual statements like that. Bad on them but a typical bit of idealism common to non-fraud prevention/law enforcment types. I see it daily. So they have to cook up the legaliese and it has to be up to snuff for American and Netherlands legal code since they have employees here and there. Then they can implement it. Not before and they may have to get people to sign it and employees who were hired w/o that contract could probably make a legal case that they should't have to sign it. Also it can't punish transgressions that happened before it was implemented. Double Jepordy and all. It's a mess. They are rolling with it, but since there is no Sadam syle crusificafiuon of the prev dev no no on U-Tube some of the wich hunt folks will never be happy. Thus, trust the devs and have fun playing the game, or don't trust them and move on. I hear WOW is hard on devs, mabey that makes the game more fun :P -Galan
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.31 15:20:00 - [59] the fact that the goonies themselves havent left yet is proof enough that they dont take their OWN allegations seriously Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.31 15:30:00 - [60] The very fact that goons keep answering these threads and admit that they were at the origin of the attack on the forum just proves one thing in my opinion. They are partly right : BoB and CCP do have common points. When goons fight them, goons lose.
Kage Getsu Knowledge Industries Geological Research Ghosts Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.31 15:59:00 - [61] Just FYI, this drama was the culmination of about 2 months of non-stop whining about Titans on the SA forums by Goonswam members. They couldn't deal with them, so they did the one thing they ARE good at (drama and spamming). _________________________________________________________
Death Merchant InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.31 16:19:00 - [62] I just look at it like counter strike on a clan server. Sometimes you suspect people are cheating and they are not because they are that good. Sometimes they are but they are on the clans server so theres nothing you can do about it. I guess the main point is that the only people who can "prove" anything are the people who are accused of helping them cheating. So unless you can find another server you just have to play the best you can. Still a fun game, just seems stacked sometimes. Also I think its gotten to the point that even if CCP did find someone cheating, there is nothing they could really do about it. If they expose it, then people will say this has been happening all along and they will get crucified. It would destroy the game. If they keep it under wraps, everyone thinks they are hiding it and that makes it worse. Everything they do(like it is now) is called into question. Every action is an alterior motive. Its a catch 22. Same for BoB, no matter what they do, a vast majority of Eve thinks they cheated/sploited/hacked/gm'd/killed kittens to do it. Whether they did or not thats an F*&$& up cloud to be hanging over all of your achievments. I just think its CCP's good fortune that no game has come along that offers even 80% of what eve offers. This analogy works best. CCP = Major League Baseball BoB = Barry Bonds Goonswarm = Curt Schilling
Reiun Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.31 17:39:00 - [63] Edited by: Reiun on 31/05/2007 17:38:54 Now Im not in for conspiracies or the like but Im not impressed with CCP's handling of these matters (there are things doen well too I suppose). This inst some free sever, people pay ccp money to enjoy this fine game. Its ccp's call how to run this game but there are many things I dislike about what they have been doing. First of all villainizing a very large group of your players rubs me the wrong way, their actions may not have been ideal but as a corporation Id expect a bit more diplomatic tone less dismissive tone, certainly not outright hostility. The initial claims troubled a segment of your customer base, this group wanted a little more transparency and assurances that everything was kosher. Some of them would never be pleased no matter what action was taken but to say thousands of your customers are gunning for you is a bit much. The eventual response implying we did no wrong the people who claimed we did are corporate terrorist is insane. In regards to the actual claims, for anyone in the game to be able to bypass the the normal steps that everyone else must go through is unacceptable. In this case it was the petition system, would it be acceptable if a person could short cut any other systems that effect the play of the game, of course not and petitions play a part in the game as big as any ingame system. Neglecting any conspiracies or claims of ulterior motives this is still not good. The DS1 thing was kinda odd and I still think devs or whoever should let a CEO know whats up if they have to give themselves directorship if at all possible. I mean this game is sticky, what if a corp spy had to petition a bug while trying to rob a corp blind, this would be sticky so I admit ccp has to make their own policies about how devs handle things as telling the ceo too much would be unfair to the spy in that instance. Rigged events, if they occur, in a way kinda par for the course, Its easier to write and handle a real linear story. ---In summary (read only this part if lazy) It seems alot of the way things go on in this game wouldn't fly in alot of paid games, Free shards maybe, the old white wolf New Bremen scene maybe. To quote an ex blizzard employ with perhaps a slight bias: "As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me." Paid or volunteer GM's in other games would be on a pike for having open channels with players. Now gm's and devs must play the game, I'm a strong supporter of that, but I sometimes find statements from CCP perplexing and aggravating. I love the game in concept though and its got its market cornered
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.31 18:04:00 - [64] Edited by: Tortun Nahme on 31/05/2007 18:04:07 Originally by: Reiun Edited by: Reiun on 31/05/2007 17:38:54 Now Im not in for conspiracies or the like but Im not impressed with CCP's handling of these matters (there are things doen well too I suppose). This inst some free sever, people pay ccp money to enjoy this fine game. Its ccp's call how to run this game but there are many things I dislike about what they have been doing. First of all villainizing a very large group of your players rubs me the wrong way, their actions may not have been ideal but as a corporation Id expect a bit more diplomatic tone less dismissive tone, certainly not outright hostility. ccp hasnt villianized anyone, the GOONS villianized BoB and ccp, its the sensible players that have been villianizing the goons for using dramabombs Quote: The initial claims troubled a segment of your customer base, this group wanted a little more transparency and assurances that everything was kosher. Some of them would never be pleased no matter what action was taken but to say thousands of your customers are gunning for you is a bit much. The eventual response implying we did no wrong the people who claimed we did are corporate terrorist is insane. link, I've seen no such claims by ccp Quote: In regards to the actual claims, for anyone in the game to be able to bypass the the normal steps that everyone else must go through is unacceptable. In this case it was the petition system, would it be acceptable if a person could short cut any other systems that effect the play of the game, of course not and petitions play a part in the game as big as any ingame system. Neglecting any conspiracies or claims of ulterior motives this is still not good. Theres been no factualy evidence to support that anyone has had petitions expediated via any form of external communication Quote: The DS1 thing was kinda odd and I still think devs or whoever should let a CEO know whats up if they have to give themselves directorship if at all possible. I mean this game is sticky, what if a corp spy had to petition a bug while trying to rob a corp blind, this would be sticky so I admit ccp has to make their own policies about how devs handle things as telling the ceo too much would be unfair to the spy in that instance. according to the eula no foreknowledge is required on behalf of any player for a GM or dev investiagtion into bug or cheating reports, dont like it? tough. Quote: Rigged events, if they occur, in a way kinda par for the course, Its easier to write and handle a real linear story. ALL events in ALL games are scripted so wth is the problem? CCP covered their bases for a planned event with multiple possible outcomes, how is that a bad thing? Or even remotely unfair? I mean, do you blame your D&D DM for stacking the deck against you if he uses dynamic encounters just because he doesn't know what you are gonig to do? Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.05.31 18:07:00 - [65] I like how this thread has been kept open for 3 pages when all other ones that belong in the stickied thread in Info have been promptly closed. So if you suck up to CCP you get to have your thread remain open? I'm not a CCP basher, but once again the rules don't seem to apply to everyone equally. I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.31 18:10:00 - [66] if you look at the last 4 pages of the forums you will noticep lenty unlocked threads of this nature featuring both sides, the only ones they have been locking are the obvious flamebait from BOTH sides Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.05.31 18:24:00 - [67] Originally by: Tortun Nahme if you look at the last 4 pages of the forums you will noticep lenty unlocked threads of this nature featuring both sides, the only ones they have been locking are the obvious flamebait from BOTH sides Yeah, but they used to lock them all right away and directed people to the sticky. Why not stay consistent and keep doing that? I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.31 18:27:00 - [68] Edited by: Tortun Nahme on 31/05/2007 18:26:10 because the sheer volume overwhelmed them? their fingers fell off from clicking, and they are vastly outnumbered by idiots crying censor because they dont understand the simple concept of posting in the right thread edit: I swear I can't spell worth jack today Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
Damares Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold	Posted - 2007.05.31 18:44:00 - [69] that sounds far to clever for goonies, however i never really cared in the first place if CCP was cheating, never the less i wouldnt put it past goons to do something like that....
Gort Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.05.31 20:19:00 - [70] Originally by: DarkFenix The thing is, if CCP didn't play their game, it wouldn't be the great game it is now. If they don't play it, they don't really understand it. If they don't understand it, they can't make well informed decisions on how to change it. As for the t20 incident. I saw this a bit of a non-event even when it all exploded early this year. Ok so a dev cheated a while back, he gave some mediocre BPO's to an alliance with enough resources not to need them anyway. But this happened 6 months prior to the dramabomb, and CCP dealt with it. They chose not to fire the dev in question. Who the hell are you people to say they should have fired him? CCP is not your company and you have no say in how it's run. It was a CCP internal affair and they didn't even have to say anything about it, because their internal disciplinary procedures are nobody elses damned business. Wow, just wow. -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.05.31 20:53:00 - [71] Originally by: Damares that sounds far to clever for goonies, however i never really cared in the first place if CCP was cheating, never the less i wouldnt put it past goons to do something like that.... Most of them are not bright enough to come to any individual decisions about this. They're just buying what they're being told. The ones at the top aren't stupid, which is the worst part of all this. They know it's all lies, and they'll do it again if given the chance. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Smelt Down	Posted - 2007.05.31 21:02:00 - [72] The DS1 thing was probably wrong and just a communication problem between CCP and DS1, but that doesn't make the rest of the things said untrue. Why are BoB allowed to have dev/gm friends, but when a GM (using his GM name, nothing hidden or secretive) is found to be communicating with GOON in a friendly matter he is forced by CCP to stop within days? This was from a meeting at the 2006 evemeet thing in iceland. Just like what was mentioned people should do if they want ccp friends? BoB get MSN contacts and what not at evemeets = ok, because ccp still needs friends. GOON get contacts from evemeets = bad, devs/gm's cannot be interacting with players. Why does BoB get a 30 second response from CCP for a petition when everyone else gets weeks, at which time they will tell you they have no proof of any exploit/problem? I can 100% guarantee you that the surface on improper conduct/cheating has not been scratched and will never be scratched. The only "exploits" have been exposed have been due to paper trails left and then found by hackers (social or otherwise). How many improper things have happened that are never discovered? A very large number I can assure you. Do you really think T20 just did one thing, and then that was it, before getting caught? What about about other devs/aurora people/gm's who have never been caught? Remember about a year ago that officer fit GM piloted scorpion that was flying toward BoB space but got caught by some random gate camp? Or howabout when there was the mothership event a long time ago in BoB space and the mothership had officer gear, but when there was a mothership event in syndicate? (I think), it only had T2 gear? The amount of corruption will never be known. It is like that quote from the movie Tombstone "I don't think I will arrest myself today". CCP are the law, they have no overseers. CCP can do whatever they want, if caught they can just sweep it under the rug like they tried to do for T20. Remember how for a week they said nothing improper had occured?
Itzena Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.31 21:09:00 - [73] Originally by: Frug Originally by: Damares that sounds far to clever for goonies, however i never really cared in the first place if CCP was cheating, never the less i wouldnt put it past goons to do something like that.... Most of them are not bright enough to come to any individual decisions about this. They're just buying what they're being told. The ones at the top aren't stupid, which is the worst part of all this. They know it's all lies, and they'll do it again if given the chance. qft

CCP Zrakor	Posted - 2007.06.01 16:59:00 - [74] Edited by: CCP Zrakor on 01/06/2007 17:00:17 Originally by: Flaming Lemming a) I don't care how crappy, T2 BPOs aren't "unremarkable" b) after the person was 'punished', the "unremarkable" items remained with BoB for several months until a 3rd party raised a stink about the situation. b) is the problem because either the person lied at the time, and didn't tell his superiors about the BPOs, in which case he should have gotten into more trouble for lying about them, or, CCP did know, and left them with BoB anyway, which is a much bigger can of worms. Nothing can be done now to change what happened then, and the latest investigation, while not everything that could be expected, gives me enough faith to keep playing..but I can certainly see why people have trust issues jst based on b) alone. Hopefully thing will move on, more incidents like this can be avoided (that takes work from ALL SIDES...) and we can all enjoy the game we are so passionate about. Well, when I found out what the items were I found them unremarkable compared to what he could have created. That's the only thing I will say on the issue. As for point b), I can't comment on that as I don't have all the information, but what I do know is that CCP management have been very strict with the staff about cheating of any kind and I can't imagine them ever allowing it in any form. Other than that I really can't say anything on that particular case, except that I think it was blown way out of proportion.

Kvarium Ki legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.01 17:02:00 - [75] You sound like a nice guy Zrakor, the kind of guy I want to beleive. KK.
Peter Armstrong Caldari 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.01 17:27:00 - [76] Edited by: Peter Armstrong on 01/06/2007 17:27:17 Edited by: Peter Armstrong on 01/06/2007 17:27:04 FFS why dont people just play the fecking game than daming CCP for everything. I so sick of people try to destory the rep of CCP looks at goons Dont like it then leave that all i say! CCP i support ya and hope to see ya in november! PS I drunk ------------------------------------ It's all part of the Experiance! "IAC: Our wrecks will blot out the sun. BUM: Then we will loot in the shade." :)
Araviel Gallente Epic.	Posted - 2007.06.01 17:51:00 - [77] Edited by: Araviel on 01/06/2007 17:52:35 Originally by: CCP Zrakor Edited by: CCP Zrakor on 01/06/2007 15:58:17 Originally by: Voculus They still never addressed why BoB are the only alliance allowed to have personal contact with the Devs and GMs. Could have something to do with half of CCP being in BoB. This is my personal view and is not an official stance by CCP: Well actually I think there are at least just as many CCP employees that are or have been in other alliances. I know of a few at least here in house that were in other alliances but I won't name any names. Personally I have never been affiliated with Bob, and if I ever found out that someone inhouse was helping Bob out in any illegal way I'd slap him/her silly. Fortunately our actions are logged and we have a team devoted to keeping the server cheat free, whether the culprit is a CCP employee or someone else. There is only one valid case of cheating involving a CCP employee that I know about, which happened a long time ago now, which was dealt with by CCP, it was not pushed under the rug. Believe it or not the management here do not play Eve in any alliance and are quite fanatical about maintaining a clean, level playing field in our universe. I just think BOB contacts whit the Dev's has been greatly exaggerated, we all know how the forum works and how things easy get blowned out of proportions here. I would say Bob's contacts whit the dev's are just of the same kind that every dedicated player could get, (or could get, i dont know after all this drama) Since the dev's has always had a open relation to the community and it hasnt exactly been hard to make contact whit them if you are a dedicated player, and in my personal opinion this has been one of thoose things that has been so wonderfull whit this game, i havnt been to any other where this has been possible. In the past you could easy just jump on the EVE irc channels and say hi to one of them, or go to the fanfest and get drunk toghter whit them. and if your in ISD (wich is a volunteer program for thoose who dont know wich every player that has the will could aply to) you will probably have one or two of them on your MSN contact list aswell And yea, since bob are very dedicated players i belive they got contacts whit the dev's, but not exacly a red line directly into their office, only the same kind of contact that any of us could get, or could have got. (thank you very much goonies) ---------- signature under construction

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.06.01 18:11:00 - [78] Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: CCP Zrakor Edited by: CCP Zrakor on 01/06/2007 16:27:56 Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey Flame the crap out of me or whatever . . and Zrakor your one of the few CCP employees left i have total and utter respect for. However; wasnt there 2 employees that have been puvlicly caught cheating Mmm actually one of my co-workers just pointed out a cheating incident that I was not aware of. It was a GM that we hired some time ago, on his first or second day he cheated. Needless to say he was caught, fired and everything he created ingame (which was a ship and some modules as far as I know) were deleted. I don't know of any other instances where someone did cheat. There have been some accusations that have been proven false though, like the case involving Sharkbait. I think the accusations have sprung mainly due to paranoia still lingering after this one famous instance of someone cheating which I mentioned earlier, who was caught, and in fact the items that he created were quite unremarkable (I won't divulge any more details about that due to confidentiality issues). But regardless the items were all deleted and action was taken against the person involved, and the case was closed a long time ago. Yeah, I heard about that actually...the guy spawned a CNR and a bunch of faction stuff for his alliance buddies if I remember correctly. That was at least a year and a half or two years ago though... No he just spawned a CNR and modules for himself. And it was a brand new GM who did it. ___ Questions/Complaints/Opinions/Bree \| Forum Rules \| Our Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER

BobsBrother	Posted - 2007.06.01 18:31:00 - [79] I thought it was a faction fitted rattlesnake with all the best mods it could fit and then he got destroyed in low sec at a gate camp. the story goes that the people who blew him up also got banned for a while also.
Flaming Lemming Caldari Puppeteer Press	Posted - 2007.06.01 19:02:00 - [80] Originally by: CCP Zrakor Edited by: CCP Zrakor on 01/06/2007 17:00:17 Originally by: Flaming Lemming a) I don't care how crappy, T2 BPOs aren't "unremarkable" b) after the person was 'punished', the "unremarkable" items remained with BoB for several months until a 3rd party raised a stink about the situation. b) is the problem because either the person lied at the time, and didn't tell his superiors about the BPOs, in which case he should have gotten into more trouble for lying about them, or, CCP did know, and left them with BoB anyway, which is a much bigger can of worms. Nothing can be done now to change what happened then, and the latest investigation, while not everything that could be expected, gives me enough faith to keep playing..but I can certainly see why people have trust issues jst based on b) alone. Hopefully thing will move on, more incidents like this can be avoided (that takes work from ALL SIDES...) and we can all enjoy the game we are so passionate about. Well, when I found out what the items were I found them unremarkable compared to what he could have created. That's the only thing I will say on the issue. As for point b), I can't comment on that as I don't have all the information, but what I do know is that CCP management have been very strict with the staff about cheating of any kind and I can't imagine them ever allowing it in any form. Other than that I really can't say anything on that particular case, except that I think it was blown way out of proportion. The items may have been unremarkable to you, but as far as I'm coincernd, 1 unit of Trit would have been too much, only cheating a little bit is like being a little bit pregnant. As for your 2nd statement, I agree, CCP seems to have wised up, and toughened up, which is what most reasonable people should have hoped for. Were mistakes made? Yes Are things 100% perfect now? I don't think so. Are improvements being made? YES! And that is what I was hoping for most of all, no reasonable person should expect 100% perfection, but expecting people/companies to learn from their mistakes, and take steps to reduce/eliminate those mistakes is not only reasonable, but (in my opinion) a glaringly obvious necessity. And I'm happy to see CCP taking steps in that regard. Regarding your "blown out of proportion" phrase, let's just civilly agree to disagree here. Cheating is cheating is cheating...end of story as far as I'm concerned, and I'm glad to hear Arkanon saying the same thing (different words, but that's the feeling I get from what he says.) Thanks for the discussion Zrakor, and if you have a character in game...fly safe o7 No such thing as bad press!
Jinmie	Posted - 2007.06.01 19:34:00 - [81] Originally by: BobsBrother I thought it was a faction fitted rattlesnake with all the best mods it could fit and then he got destroyed in low sec at a gate camp. the story goes that the people who blew him up also got banned for a while also. I heard he spawned himself a personal Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.06.01 20:04:00 - [82] Originally by: Jinmie Originally by: BobsBrother I thought it was a faction fitted rattlesnake with all the best mods it could fit and then he got destroyed in low sec at a gate camp. the story goes that the people who blew him up also got banned for a while also. I heard he spawned himself a personal Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers. it was assigned to an amarr shuttle wich i hear does not make a very good tank ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
RossP Zoyka	Posted - 2007.06.01 20:22:00 - [83] Originally by: Jinmie Originally by: BobsBrother I thought it was a faction fitted rattlesnake with all the best mods it could fit and then he got destroyed in low sec at a gate camp. the story goes that the people who blew him up also got banned for a while also. I heard he spawned himself a personal Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers. Templar you say? The Amarr Carrier's equivalent of a drone which is suppousedly a manned fighting ship?
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.06.01 20:58:00 - [84] Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 01/06/2007 20:57:12 I wonder if the IAC leader Tyrax Thorax something has DEVs on MSN as well... or pretty one anyone who makes himself semi-famous in the fanfests!?
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.01 21:02:00 - [85] Originally by: Eldo Davip Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: CCP Zrakor Edited by: CCP Zrakor on 01/06/2007 16:27:56 Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey Flame the crap out of me or whatever . . and Zrakor your one of the few CCP employees left i have total and utter respect for. However; wasnt there 2 employees that have been puvlicly caught cheating Mmm actually one of my co-workers just pointed out a cheating incident that I was not aware of. It was a GM that we hired some time ago, on his first or second day he cheated. Needless to say he was caught, fired and everything he created ingame (which was a ship and some modules as far as I know) were deleted. I don't know of any other instances where someone did cheat. There have been some accusations that have been proven false though, like the case involving Sharkbait. I think the accusations have sprung mainly due to paranoia still lingering after this one famous instance of someone cheating which I mentioned earlier, who was caught, and in fact the items that he created were quite unremarkable (I won't divulge any more details about that due to confidentiality issues). But regardless the items were all deleted and action was taken against the person involved, and the case was closed a long time ago. Yeah, I heard about that actually...the guy spawned a CNR and a bunch of faction stuff for his alliance buddies if I remember correctly. That was at least a year and a half or two years ago though... No he just spawned a CNR and modules for himself. And it was a brand new GM who did it. SEtting the story straight. GJ my Brother in blackness.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.06.01 21:26:00 - [86] If going to fanfest and knocking back drinks with CCP entitles you to better or faster customer service, that's WRONG. Certainly CCP is allowed to have friends, but when the lines blur between business and pleasure, such as summoning an offline GM to handle something immediately while other customers wait in the petition queue, their relationship is being taken advantage of and is unfair to your other customers. The nonchalant attitude that both CCP and BoB has towards this issue is what burns me the most. That they think it isn't a big issue just tells me that this type of thing must be pretty common, otherwise it would be quite simple for them to just come out and say: "This was an isolated incident, the GM did not follow procedure and has been disciplined. Any and all in-game problems must be addressed via the petition system." -------------------------------------
Rosalina Sarinna KHM Corporation	Posted - 2007.06.01 21:38:00 - [87] Zrakor! Thankyou so much for your input, its wonderful for one of you guys to talk to us like this on the forum :) Much appreciated.

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