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Adam C 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.05 01:47:00 - [1] Edited by: Adam C on 05/06/2007 01:49:53 Edited by: Adam C on 05/06/2007 01:48:10 does the Arazu get a ew range boost... yes! does the Rapier " " " " .... yes! does the falcon " " " ".... yes ! does the Pilgrim " " " "... NO!!!! the devs hate Amarr rabble rabble rabble UNGIMP THE PILGRIM! especially before the nos nerf p.s. first day ive got the ship... (cause it was on special offer) --------------------------
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.06.05 01:50:00 - [2] The pilgrim looses the range bonus for the cyno bonus. ---------------------> curse
NoNah Marzipan Monkeys	Posted - 2007.06.05 01:51:00 - [3] There are some threads, you simple cant ever expect. Boost pilgrim-threads are one of them. Pilgrims, cruses and supercapitals are the few strengths the Amarr Navy have.
Adam C 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.05 01:54:00 - [4] Originally by: ReePeR McAllem The pilgrim looses the range bonus for the cyno bonus. ---------------------> curse bah give the cyno bonus to a frigate thats the playing style of cyno chars anyway. Whats the point. --------------------------
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.06.05 02:09:00 - [5] Originally by: NoNah There are some threads, you simple cant ever expect. Boost pilgrim-threads are one of them. Pilgrims, cruses and supercapitals are the few strengths the Amarr Navy have. I can hear a 'boost Amarr, increase the CPU reqs on EANMs' thread approaching. Nah i'm just messing with you. ... --- Originally by: Wild Rho I'm having a hard time getting over the irony of spelling "dumb" wrong.
LordSlay Them Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.05 02:10:00 - [6] Originally by: NoNah Amarr Navy have. thats crap, everyone in the wide world of WoW knows that Curse/Pilgrim are amatarr. Duh Pilgrim and curse are fine guys, just get off your arse and train recon 5. It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Markus Aurelian	Posted - 2007.06.05 02:20:00 - [7] Originally by: LordSlay Them Originally by: NoNah Amarr Navy have. thats crap, everyone in the wide world of WoW knows that Curse/Pilgrim are amatarr. Duh Pilgrim and curse are fine guys, just get off your arse and train recon 5. fail. pilgrim is amarrian (carthum conglomerate is an amarrian corporation and develops the pilgrim) and the curse is khanid, neither of which are ammatar. Meatwad FTW
LordSlay Them Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.05 02:38:00 - [8] Well i stayed at holiday inn express last night... And, touche! It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:00:00 - [9] Edited by: Toaster Oven on 05/06/2007 02:59:12 Agreed. The problem is that all Force Recons (except Amarr) lose a damage bonus from the recon skill to gain the cloak cpu bonus. Problem is that Amarr recons only have one damage bonus, which is linked to the cruiser skill. Solution is to juggle the bonuses around. New balanced bonuses should look like: Pilgrim Amarr Cruiser - 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level Recon Ships - 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level Curse Amarr Cruiser - 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level Recon Ships - 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. That would bring the Pilgrim inline with the other Force Recons.
NoNah Marzipan Monkeys	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:09:00 - [10] Ironicly, what you just did, was remove the one and only pure damage bonus the pilgrim gets. Wierd, huh? The pilgrim looses the bonus that will gimp it least. It can use cov ops cloaks and can thus determine at what range it wants to agress.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:15:00 - [11] Edited by: Toaster Oven on 05/06/2007 03:15:57 Originally by: NoNah Ironicly, what you just did, was remove the one and only pure damage bonus the pilgrim gets. Wierd, huh? The pilgrim looses the bonus that will gimp it least. It can use cov ops cloaks and can thus determine at what range it wants to agress. All force recons do less damage than their combat counterparts. Losing it's damage bonus is only fitting. Not wierd at all. If you believe NOS range bonus is less important than drone damage, than I seriously doubt you've ever flown a Pilgrim for anything other than ganking miners
jilahed	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:16:00 - [12] Nos is no ewar. Just look at supercapitals. They can be nossed right? But as a pilgrim pilot i'd love it lol. But seriously thats a bit overdone. Guess you could nano it up then although you are a bit low on the meds. Anyway scary. Maybe a much smaller range bonus up to 20km perhaps? Would give a little more protection but it still makes it a rather closerange ship. What i don't like is 13km away you are only an arbitrator with t2 resistances and potentially without propulsion mod.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Toaster Oven Originally by: NoNah Ironicly, what you just did, was remove the one and only pure damage bonus the pilgrim gets. Wierd, huh? The pilgrim looses the bonus that will gimp it least. It can use cov ops cloaks and can thus determine at what range it wants to agress. All force recons do less damage than their combat counterparts. Losing it's damage bonus is only fitting. Not wierd at all. If you believe NOS range bonus is less important than drone damage, than I seriously doubt you've ever flown a Pilgrim I think you have that backwards. I'd NEVER give up the drone damage bonus for a nos range one. The DPS is poor enough as it is. Plus, you don't need range on a Pilgrim when you can de-cloak a few thousand meters away. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix I think you have that backwards. I'd NEVER give up the drone damage bonus for a nos range one. The DPS is poor enough as it is. Plus, you don't need range on a Pilgrim when you can de-cloak a few thousand meters away. TBH, it really doesn't matter what you prefer. In terms of balance and continuity with other force recons Pilgrim needs to do less damage than Curse while keeping the same range. It's really that simple. And obviously you've never had some hostile support warp in 20km from your ass, scramble you, and proceed to laugh as you can't do anything except send a few drones at em because of your non-bnoused NOS range
jilahed	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Toaster Oven All force recons do less damage than their combat counterparts. Losing it's damage bonus is only fitting. Not wierd at all. If you believe NOS range bonus is less important than drone damage, than I seriously doubt you've ever flown a Pilgrim for anything other than ganking miners Pilgrim does already less damage (in theory ) because it has no launcher hardpoints. Okay few people use launchers on curse but still... Curse doesn't tank like pilgrim does. So curse needs the range much more. This change wouldn't be good neither for the pilgrim nor the curse.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Toaster Oven TBH, it really doesn't matter what you prefer. In terms of balance and continuity with other force recons Pilgrim needs to do less damage than Curse while keeping the same range. It's really that simple. And obviously you've never had some hostile support warp in 20km from your ass, scramble you, and proceed to laugh as you can't do anything except send a few drones at em because of your non-bnoused NOS range I use an MWD... CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:36:00 - [17] Originally by: jilahed Pilgrim does already less damage (in theory ) because it has no launcher hardpoints. Okay few people use launchers on curse but still... Try comparing apples with apples. If you're gonna fit launchers on a Curse, then I'll go slap some guns on a Pilgrim. And I guarantee 3x Heavy Neutron II Pilgrim will outdamage a launcher Curse. Quote: Curse doesn't tank like pilgrim does. So curse needs the range much more. You can say the same thing about any other race recons and they still all get range bonus. So your argument makes no sense unless you're advocating nerfing every other race. Quote: This change wouldn't be good neither for the pilgrim nor the curse. Err, this would make virtually no difference with Curse. End result with Recon V is the same ship it is today. And for Pilgrims it would bring it inline with other recons. You may not like it but on the other hand I know tons of Pilgrim pilots who would
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix I use an MWD... Great, so do I. Doesn't mean your fat, slow Pilgrim will be outrunning many cruiser/frig class ships. Also doesn't change the fact that every other force recon gets a range bonus either...
NoNah Marzipan Monkeys	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:45:00 - [19] Well its simple really, no other force gets two effectivness bonuses either. So for balance through that aspect, the pilgrim would be with the nos range bonus, but not the nos effectiveness bonus. Is that what you want? In my eyes thats a serious nerf.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:50:00 - [20] Originally by: NoNah Well its simple really, no other force gets two effectivness bonuses either. So for balance through that aspect, the pilgrim would be with the nos range bonus, but not the nos effectiveness bonus. Is that what you want? In my eyes thats a serious nerf. Fail. Falcon has 3 bonuses related to ECM (though it could use some loving as well). Also fail because NOS needs the effectiveness bonus to actually provide some punch. Web and scramble don't need any strength help, that would make them insanely overpowered.
NoNah Marzipan Monkeys	Posted - 2007.06.05 04:03:00 - [21] True, however the falcon gets bonus to only one type of ew.(Dont ***** about terminology, youre quite aware of what I mean) Thus it voids any form of comparisson really. The curse does arguably have 3 damage bonuses, as Nos - while not being direclty offensive, counters defensive and offensive measures. All the other recons will only counter the offensive measures. AND it gets a damage bonus.
jilahed	Posted - 2007.06.05 04:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Toaster Oven Try comparing apples with apples. If you're gonna fit launchers on a Curse, then I'll go slap some guns on a Pilgrim. And I guarantee 3x Heavy Neutron II Pilgrim will outdamage a launcher Curse. After fitting a cloak. How many nos/neut will your pilgrim fitting field? Now tell me about apples and oranges. As i said nos is no ewar otherwise would supercapitals be immune to it. Easy. So don't compare other recons ewar range bonus and nos range bonus. Nos bonuses make curse/pilgrim unique and imo the most fun recons ingame. No need to change anything.
Drazhar Kain Alpha Production Technologies Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.05 04:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Toaster Oven Originally by: NoNah Well its simple really, no other force gets two effectivness bonuses either. So for balance through that aspect, the pilgrim would be with the nos range bonus, but not the nos effectiveness bonus. Is that what you want? In my eyes thats a serious nerf. Fail. Falcon has 3 bonuses related to ECM (though it could use some loving as well). Also fail because NOS needs the effectiveness bonus to actually provide some punch. Web and scramble don't need any strength help, that would make them insanely overpowered. You're blind. Blinded by bias. It's a pretty common occurrance: someone doesn't like something about a ship they pilot, a module they use, a system they're in... complaining insues. Not factual or logical argument, just free spinning bias. To your argument.... you're comparing a Falcon to a Pilgrim. A Falcon does have three bonuses to ECM, though a Blackbird also has the only two that matter, as well. ECM Cap reduction is hardly a bonus against Nos range, Nos effectiveness, Drone Damage, or Tracking disruptor effectiveness. It's really completely outclassed by those bonuses. The fact is, the Falcon is a cloaking blackbird. Same role, same bonuses. It doesn't bring anything new to the table. The Pilgrim, on the other hand, isn't just an arbitrator with a tracking disruptor cap bonus, is it? No... not by a long shot. So in conclusion, go ** yourself, eat **, and die.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.06.05 05:00:00 - [24] Originally by: Drazhar Kain So in conclusion, go ** yourself, eat , and die. Oh my. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by:** CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Riho Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.06.05 07:34:00 - [25] Originally by: Toaster Oven Edited by: Toaster Oven on 05/06/2007 03:05:53 Agreed. All Force Recons (except Amarr) lose a damage bonus from the recon skill to gain the cloak cpu bonus. Problem is that Amarr recons only have one damage bonus, which is linked to the cruiser skill. Solution is to juggle the bonuses around. New balanced bonuses should look like: Pilgrim Amarr Cruiser - 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level Recon Ships - 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level Curse Amarr Cruiser - 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level Recon Ships - 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. That would bring the Pilgrim inline with the other Force Recons. and pilgrim looses its t1 ship bonuses and all of its dmg..... go back to the hole you just came from... pilgrim is fine when you have recon 5 :D what you should get anyways :P --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog -----------------
Aem Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.05 07:54:00 - [26] The pilgrim is fine as it is, its a beast of a machine and takes skill to pilot. Just because its different from the other force recons, doesnt mean it has to be inline with it. The pilgrim is perfect-os as it is. Someone above suggesting give it NOS range, well I say hell-&&&&-no to that, leave the energy amount as it is (that change also removed the drone bonuses, if thats the case, the pilgrim loses its pwn-ability) Pilgrim is the tank of the two, no need to turn it into a tanking curse, because with the NOS range bonus, thats all its going to be. Leave it alone. (All these threads because the ship isnt what you like, pay your $15 a month, fly your imaginary ship, and learn to live with how things are. If it doesnt work, find another ship that does, don't whine and moan)
kill0rbunny Alpha-Hirogen The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.06.05 07:57:00 - [27] Edited by: kill0rbunny on 05/06/2007 07:58:18 Edited by: kill0rbunny on 05/06/2007 07:56:38 Someone even THOUGHT of boosting one of the BEST ships ingame? That's hilarious. If you don't know how to fight using a pilgrim, use a domi instead. This ship is able to pick it's fights and eat most non-capital ships alive. No need boosting it. I pew therefore I am.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.06.05 08:14:00 - [28] I have no idea what ccp is doing.. but probably the only thing you can do is w8 what they have done and then cry.. Like with most of the changes.. HEAT prob extra lagg en bugs and exploits and problems.. Specialized NOS ship is crap after rev 2 Dont forget what they did to the command ships not to long ago.. Only good thing they did was the warp to 0 option... more content more bugs more lagg more epxloits more griefing.. ->My Vids<-
TheOgreTorix	Posted - 2007.06.05 08:44:00 - [29] Originally by: Adam C does the Arazu get a ew range boost... yes! does the Rapier " " " " .... yes! does the falcon " " " ".... yes ! does the Pilgrim " " " "... NO!!!! You are not taking into account the other bonuses on the other races recons. Each race has bonuses for two(except for caldari, they only have one) mods plus a damage bonus. The gallente/minmatar combat recons each have a one bonus for each of the non-combat mods, range for one and effectivness for the other. They also have 2 bonuses for their damage. The Force recons of the same races have the same bonuses except they drop a damage bonus for the cloaking bonus. So if you wanted to make the amarr combat and force recons like the gallente/minmatar recons the bonuses would have to be: Combat Recon: Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 20% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage per level Force Recon: Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level
Aem Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.05 11:12:00 - [30] Originally by: TheOgreTorix Originally by: Adam C does the Arazu get a ew range boost... yes! does the Rapier " " " " .... yes! does the falcon " " " ".... yes ! does the Pilgrim " " " "... NO!!!! You are not taking into account the other bonuses on the other races recons. Each race has bonuses for two(except for caldari, they only have one) mods plus a damage bonus. The gallente/minmatar combat recons each have a one bonus for each of the non-combat mods, range for one and effectivness for the other. They also have 2 bonuses for their damage. The Force recons of the same races have the same bonuses except they drop a damage bonus for the cloaking bonus. So if you wanted to make the amarr combat and force recons like the gallente/minmatar recons the bonuses would have to be: Combat Recon: Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 20% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage per level Force Recon: Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level Die please? Leave the ships as they are, thank you very much. There is nothing wrong with either, people just whine when they lose ships and/or are that bored at work and with their lives that they post crap on the forums, the pilgrim is fine as it is, the curse is what it is, no gun bonuses for it thaaaank you.

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