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Tecam Hund The Buggers	Posted - 2007.06.05 17:12:00 - [31] I think that bounties on rats should be cut back somewhat, and insurance should be adjusted (not removed completely though) until it is at least remotely realistic. CCP is planning to reduce pure ISK income from missions, I believe, by removing bounties and replacing them with better loot and lp rewards. It was in a blog somewhere, but I can't find it now.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.05 17:14:00 - [32] I don't think that players are "too rich", I know that the majority of the players I run around with aren't. Most of us (around 20 players) started last October/November, right before Revelations. Of the lot I'm the only one that has successfully aquired more than 300M in cash, not counting ships. None of us have T2 ships, most of us don't have T2 equipment, we are all still flying lowepriced BSs and BCs. We are all high-sec mission runners, miners and fledgling industrialists. Since I've been here I've seen the rewards for missions and belt ratting slashed again and again for High Sec players. I make less ISK now on a per mission basis for level 3s and low level 4s than I made with level 2s in December. The loot drops are virtually non-existant in value so we melt them down to make ammo, Salvage has taken a couple of nerfs in the last two patches, fewer ships in the mission means less bounties, and the mission payouts are lower. Plus most of the newer missions are all "Factional" and give no bounties at all, while still not giving decent loot drops. I read CCP's thoughts on level 5 missions in LowSec, requiring gangs of BBs and capital ships to run, with NO bounties, and wonder exactly who is going to run them. I don't know anyone personally that can afford to. I think the problem with players having too much ISK is all left over from greener times or misperceptions from those living in 0.0 and thinking everyone has it so good. I know I have to kill 100+ (yes over 100) belt rats to equal the bounty payout for ONE in 0.0..... <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Lenaria Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna	Posted - 2007.06.05 17:19:00 - [33] Edited by: Lenaria on 05/06/2007 17:20:19 Originally by: Dark Shikari IMO primarily insurance has to be completely removed. If it was removed, this would force people to fly smaller ships--combat wouldn't be nearly as dominated by battleships. It would also drastically decrease the amount of ISK in the game, since the insurance payouts are just flooding the game with ISK. This is nonsense. Only several months ago T2 BS cost was 3x more expencive than now. Guess what? Every major aliance still fielded T2 BS fleets almost exclusevely... So obviosly insurance removal will not turn anyone from using BS - instead it will make losing penalties bigger (less PvP, especeally for smaller alliances) and promote even more grinding. Btw, looking at mineral prices there is rather deflation than inflation - that means what EVE actually have too little money and NOT too much. P.S. For anyone looking for uber-expencive toys what require insane amount of effort - there are motheships and titans. No point making dreadnouts like titans. ============================================== 1 Titan is ok, 2 kills any fun, 3 make peoples quit eve. No wonder online numbers decline for 3rd month.
Miz Cenuij OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.06.05 17:30:00 - [34] Scrap insurance. "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Earthan Gallente The Absolutely Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik	Posted - 2007.06.05 17:47:00 - [35] Originally by: Trevedian Edited by: Trevedian on 05/06/2007 15:53:14 Has mining become obsolete since there is sooo much isk floating around? Is it hurting EVE that people are too rich? Should we scrap insurance payouts outside of empire? Do we need better isk sinks? What new and interesting isk sinks are on the horizon? Should something every1 wants be sold only by NPC's? (Boosters) I can remember when EVE was like the wild west, when it hurt bad to lose a ship, but that made fighting even more exciting. The game used to be wide open, now it seems limited by restraints developed to hurt small gang warfare and solo PVP. Cap ships and POS's are tedious after the initial novelty wears off... Suggestions? Comments? i dont know i alwys have to little isk. I just recenlty bought my first carrer, true that before i devoted all my time to pvp or corp/allaince duties i was in. - Killing Eve bullies all over the galaxy hunting stories
Earthan Gallente The Absolutely Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik	Posted - 2007.06.05 17:51:00 - [36] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/06/2007 15:54:48 Yes. I think so. Back in the days, there was a "cutoff" between people who were good at making money and those who weren't. The cutoff wasn't that big though--a billion was loads. Today, a billion is pocket change for anyone who is good at making money unless they intentionally use it as they earn it, or PvP all the time rather than rat/mission/mine. But the people who suck at making money haven't gotten any better, and so they feel alienated by the gap. A corpmate of mine decided a few days ago he would go get himself in a dreadnought. A few days of ratting and he's already bought his dreadnought and fittings . imho you exagerate abit with your dread bit= few days of ncping. Maybe if you npc 8h/day it would be 1 week or 10 days ( lets assume oyu earn 200 milions perday).But i assume most poeple cant play more then 15 -20 hours a week, so its more like 1 month. Me personally npcing in very good 0.0 i earned for a carrer in around 1 month maybe a bit more, playing i guess around 10 hours per week in average.Also had to pvp a bit during that time. Doesnt seem so short to me. - Killing Eve bullies all over the galaxy hunting stories
Xtreem Gallente Viking Research and Production space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:11:00 - [37] also to be honest, older players dont think of insurance alot as they tend to fly t2 ships alot whih you cant insure... down with insurance, massive boost to cap ships, massive increase in price for cap ships (wayyy to easy to get) and i still think my insurance level on ship class is the best idea, promotes smaller gangs 2 at least in ship types, less sniper fleets and alot more close up dog fights
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:20:00 - [38] This is something I have been going on about for years since I saw how common Battleships were becoming so I just have to say a few extra words. I'll first start on other people's comments. Originally by: Trevedian Has mining become obsolete since there is sooo much isk floating around? Yes and no. If you ask me, it all depends on where you are located and if you are far out, how big your alliances is and/or how good your logistics are. Originally by: Trevedian Is it hurting EVE that people are too rich? Oh hell yes. I myself have 7B and I am rather bored. I hate dying if only because I have to go get a new ship, refit it, bring it to where I am, etc. Originally by: Trevedian Should we scrap insurance payouts outside of empire? If you ask me, yeah. I always wondered why someone would insure something that is located in a known lawless area. Originally by: Trevedian I can remember when EVE was like the wild west, when it hurt bad to lose a ship, but that made fighting even more exciting. The game used to be wide open, now it seems limited by restraints developed to hurt small gang warfare and solo PVP. Cap ships and POS's are tedious after the initial novelty wears off... Couldn't agree more. I sold off my 2 capital ships. I always felt they, as well as battleships, should be corporation owned assets that everyone worked for, much the way battleships were described during the beta. I'm feeling nostalgic now so I'll repeat two stories of the early days to give those newer people for a taste of what it was like. During beta, my corporation worked two-three weeks mining arkanor (it sold at 4096 back then) to buy our first cruiser off the NPC market. It was an Augoror and it was much different back then. Anyway, we actually were sharing the thing. Can you believe sharing a low level T1 cruiser? I mean, wow. We ended up doing some other mining and the cruiser got in trouble FIGHTING OTHER CRUISERS! Hard to believe, ain't it? So I rushed out in my Tristan (that took me a good few days to get too) to help out and I was just barely able to save my comrade (back then, a tristan could have 8 drones). It was a real nail biting experience because we put alot of time and work into that cruiser. A day after retail, my corp mates from beta formed another corp. We worked hard to just get Scythes (back then it was a different ship too). Once we got the BPO, it took about two weeks to get enough to build some for ourselves to be able to get more and so on. Eventually we got enough to get the Rupture BPO and built one of those. Now I got use of it from my corp's CEO. Our ONLY Rupture. I was travelling in low sec (it was a much different environment back then) and got jumped by 3 pirate frigates at the gate. I was thinking 'Oh crap'. So I started legging it for the gate. I took out 2 of them before I somehow lost a lock on the 3rd. Ewar was different back then and the 2nd ship got a jam on me before I took him out. Because there was no aggro timer back then, I was able to escape. That was the last real nail biting experience I have had in eve since. I kept thinking during that attack 'Bicc is so going to kill me if I die'.
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:21:00 - [39] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Xtreem however this would be harsh for new players, perhaps the level of poss insurance lowers per class level so by the time your at BS you can only get a 20% payout, 50% for bc, 75% for cruisers etc to help the new guys But if insurance is removed, the new players wouldn't need bigger ships as quickly because other players would have smaller ships also. I'm against removing insurance. I do like the idea of removing it for 0.0. I'm of two minds for empire space though. I do think that the build requirements should be increased by a small margin per ship size. Like 5% for frigate size, 10% for cruiser size, 20% for battleship size and 30% for capital ship size. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Only new ISK sink I am aware of comes with bringing "Heat" into the game. A module disabled by overheating will only be repairable at a station and paying for the repairs. You can dock at your alliance's outpost and repair for free if your alliance has it set up like that. Originally by: Gong Reprocessing npc-sold items is usually still a loss, and that's how it's supposed to be. So almost all mins come from mining and reprocessing loot/alloys and that's uneffected by how many isk floats arround. I've been feeling lately that the reprocessing part should be harsher and the skill for scrap metal given a higher benefit. It'd make the skill more valuable and also make it so you don't have to give up mining completely. I've known some alliances build entire fleets just from recycled loot. Originally by: Derovius Vaden EVE should: - triple the cost of higher-level clones Eek. My clone already costs 14M. There is only one clone above that. Originally by: Janu Hull One possible alteration to the Insurance system. Instead of multiple levels of coverage (what idiot would only cover partial cost on a ship?), just have the insurance system replace the hull itself. I'd be for lowering the insurance payout. Right now Megathrons are really cheap. You don't get your money back or anything but it is a pretty good deal. Originally by: Tecam Hund I think that bounties on rats should be cut back somewhat, and insurance should be adjusted (not removed completely though) until it is at least remotely realistic. CCP is planning to reduce pure ISK income from missions, I believe, by removing bounties and replacing them with better loot and lp rewards. It was in a blog somewhere, but I can't find it now. Oh hell yes. I remember when cruisers could actually be tough to fight. They should definitely scale it back. I think they listened to all the whiners way back when and introduced all this high bounty stuff. Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby I don't think that players are "too rich", I know that the majority of the players I run around with aren't. Most of us (around 20 players) started last October/November, right before Revelations. Of the lot I'm the only one that has successfully aquired more than 300M in cash, not counting ships. None of us have T2 ships, most of us don't have T2 equipment, we are all still flying lowepriced BSs and BCs. We are all high-sec mission runners, miners and fledgling industrialists. I think the problem with players having too much ISK is all left over from greener times or misperceptions from those living in 0.0 and thinking everyone has it so good. I know I have to kill 100+ (yes over 100) belt rats to equal the bounty payout for ONE in 0.0..... Then you are doing something wrong or your skills aren't there yet. Sometimes I start a new agent I haven't done missions with before and within a week, I start getting really good missions and can start making the real money from just cargo missions. I don't mind doing those if I am mostly afk. I can make 40M a week from those depending on hour many hours a day I spend doing them. For me, it just ends up being too easy and I get bored of it.
Fayn Trak Gallente Myridian Trading Systems	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:21:00 - [40] Quote: imho you exagerate abit with your dread bit= few days of ncping. Not really I knew a guy who used to pull in 4-5 hundred million in a day, it'd be a good day I suppose but he certainly had some lucky charm or some such for getting good loot. Anyway on the op, mining hasn't become obsolete as you still need the minerals, the ammount of people running missions/rat hunting and the refining the loot for minerals has certainly hit the mineral prices (might need to be looked at) certainly mining is out of the equation at the high end isk earning. The faact that there's so much isk floating around is changing eve it's not changing it to my liking but I don't think it's hurting the game overly. Insurance really does need some changing, warfare is so much larger these days that the ammount of isk dumped into the game via insurance has to be huge. If insurance is altered to not pay so much then the isk sinks should be fine(along with the agent adjustments) As was said heat will be a new isk sink though I don't see it being hugely effective it should be interesting to see how having all those pos guns outside alters things, they cost money to replace after all provided there'd be a point in attacking items outside the shield even if you weren't planning on taking out the tower. A herd of cattle A flock of geese A lot of isk remember when sigs were text?
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:21:00 - [41] I don¦t really understand what insurance payout would change, its peanuts anyway. T2 market and lvl4 missions have relocated large ammounts of isk into the wallet of "some" pilots. I think its harder than ever before to get into the ISK renerating industry now. T2 market spreads its profit. LVL4 mission will changed into none ISK gerating missions and lvl5+ will drop datacores and other stuff. So the problem was a problem i would say. - next minnie Outpost bpc me:5 available in 25 days -
Angaro Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:24:00 - [42] Not everyone has too much isk. I know I don't. So unless a tax on capital is introduced the players who don't like or know the best ways to make money (and don't have some T2 bpo's ofc) or simply don't have the playing time to devote a part of it to making isk, will suffer as well and even more so than the "rich" players. Which I hope is not a desired effect. Making high-SP clones more expensive is a pretty lousy idea. There is no direct relationship between character age and wealth. I wouldn't mind more people flying good old T1 frigs and cruisers though. So I propose a montly 5% tax on all assets, liquid or not. Above a certain threshold of course... Let's make everyone poor!
THEGREAT LOBO Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:24:00 - [43] I know lots of people are rich and feel that there is too much isk in the game. but as one of the poor people most of the time i have to disagree. Removing insurance or making it at 50% of what the ship is worth would make pirating a lot harder. tis already hard just to pay for new t2 mods everytime i do something silly :P with out insurance i would have to consider doing something honest for my money
bloomich Trotter's Independent Traders Co	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:28:00 - [44] Hmmm yes - Remove insurance and just have it drop a replacement ship in your hanger of the station you insured at. This would take isk out of the game all together as people pay for insurance. Of course, this means that all you get is one type of insurance, and no more default 40% insurance.
Earthan Gallente The Absolutely Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:33:00 - [45] Originally by: Fayn Trak Quote: imho you exagerate abit with your dread bit= few days of ncping. Not really I knew a guy who used to pull in 4-5 hundred million in a day, it'd be a good day I suppose but he certainly had some lucky charm or some such for getting good loot. I still think you miss one of the point of my post.Maybe he earned 400 milions because he was very lucky npcing with loot all day.ALL DAY. Come on who can play a freaking whole day often?? Also you cant npc all time in 0.0 you got to defend it. - Killing Eve bullies all over the galaxy hunting stories
Cardice Makar Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:38:00 - [46] I defiantly agree that there is a serious issue with cashflow in the game, but I'm not entirely convinced that removing insurance is the pure solution. The game needs more ISK-sinks, of this I am certain. Payable bills on the character level are a good start to this, and will certainly become easier to implement in Rev2. [Think docking fees in unliked/non-race stations, I suppose]. A potentially better [and more obvious] sink would be to copy the real-world insurance scheme: that being paying a monthly payment to keep your insurance active, remove the expiration date on your insurance, and have a "star-track record" that results in individuals that loose ships more often having to pay higher rates or even suspensions. Also, addition of licenses to use specific types of hardware in empire, transport specific quantities of types of goods, or pass specific check points could be implemented. Also, police services, rescue services, and other such things could be thrown into the mix. I for one agree that there needs to be other things eating your isk... but "removing insurance all together" isn't the proper solution IMO.
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:47:00 - [47] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 05/06/2007 18:46:30 Originally by: Janu Hull One possible alteration to the Insurance system. Instead of multiple levels of coverage (what idiot would only cover partial cost on a ship?), just have the insurance system replace the hull itself. A single lump payment that for 12 weeks, if you lose the ship, you have a replacement hull sitting in the hangar where you clone. No money added, you still need to replace the components. This saves the insurance system from flooding the market with ISK in the event a ship ever does actually come in cheap enough that platinum insurance turns a profit. Nice idea, but where does that leave the ship builders ? And ,since they have to get the minerals from somewhere, the miners ?
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:50:00 - [48] Here are some thoughts I came up with. ISK tends to be the real mover and shaker of EVE and I always felt everything in EVE feeds back on itself. People made alot of good suggestions that I quoted and replied to. One thing that could stand to be included along with the other suggestions is: - Changing ore distribution. If you ask me, it just downright sucks. There is the same ore distribution from low sec stretching out into 0.0 until you get to the very outside regions. What the hell is that all about? There are other factors for mentioning this. While it may seem like this would just add to ISK inflation, I think my point is to make those middle 0.0 regions more self sufficient if the other suggestions were followed. This should also include, but not be limited to, trade goods for towers that are used to claim space. I've been hoping they will allow more than one outpost to be allowed in a system in Revelations 2. And since they are placed at planets, why not start making planets actually do something? You could add an option in the outpost to make an expendature to colonize a planet that could produce trade goods that are used for POS fueling towers. Obviously the colony could also have its own needs much like a tower do but you could get them from other types of planets as you establish other outposts. It'd be a way of making those 0.0 empires more self sufficient. It can't really be argued that the most successful alliances, and the largest, are those in deep 0.0 and know how to handle the logistics of getting all this stuff from empire. But that just makes them completely dependant on Empire space. I can see the big alliances becoming self sufficient with the younger and/or smaller ones still requring trade goods from empire or other 0.0 alliances that may have a surplus. Obviously, this interaction should only occur on SOLID or ICE planets although I suppose a gas planet would be okay depending on the trade good. It would also give planets some kind of value. I think logistics people would appreciate this kind of micromanagement. There would also have to be a change in ice products in terms of isotopes. I personally felt that racial ice based on location is rather stupid. But if it is too much work to change it, why not a POS module that can just convert it for you and have it incorporate a small penalty as part of the conversion? I think something like this would be an important step because then there wouldn't be as big a need for all this really high valued ratting and loot, etc, and it could be scaled back. Fueling those damn towers gets downright expensive and if your supply run from Empire gets taken out, well, that is what will hurt. I always got the impression that it was because of these high fuel costs that they saw the need to increase bounties to such high levels out in 0.0.
Stefx	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:00:00 - [49] -CCP should ***** down on macro miners -Insurance should be void when in war -Insurance should be void when ship is destroyed by Concord
Ozzie Asrail Exploited	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:02:00 - [50] It's fine as it is at the moment. I'm certialy not a rich player but nether am i poor player, I actually only have about 50mil in cash atm although got about 6-7bil in assests. Losing a T2 fitted BS or a hac still hurts like hell, sure I could go into hardcore isk farming mode and pay for a few expensive ships in a few days but a. thats boring and b. i can lose them even quicker than that in hardcore pvp mode :p Stopping insurance, while it might not be a big deal in reality, would be a big mental hold-back for people PvP'ing. Especially newer or more casual players. If you find it a bit boring because you make too much isk then fly more expensive ships. I mean could any but the biggest T2 guys (gives khatred the evil eye) think that flying faction pimped ships everday is boring not risky? -----
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:04:00 - [51] Originally by: Cardice Makar The game needs more ISK-sinks, of this I am certain. Payable bills on the character level are a good start to this, and will certainly become easier to implement in Rev2. [Think docking fees in unliked/non-race stations, I suppose]. There was mention in the beta that battleships would have an upkeep but it never happened. Shame really. Make them only be able to move through systems via jump drives and maybe that would count as an upkeep.
Martin Mckenna D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:04:00 - [52] ive got 8mill nerf people over 100bill :P
THEGREAT LOBO Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:06:00 - [53] Originally by: Martin Mckenna ive got 8mill nerf people over 100bill :P Love it
Cardice Makar Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:11:00 - [54] Originally by: Martin Mckenna ive got 8mill nerf people over 100bill :P Income Tax? Yeah, I remember the 'upkeep' talk. Someone very well expressed the idea of hiring "ship crews" too, allowing Vetran [t2] crews to slightly increase ship efficiency at the cost of other aspects and ISK. Could work. Upkeep isn't a terrible idea, but I'd like to see more in the way of player-based bills. The faculties exist in the game already, so why not put them to use? Also, I'm sure clones could be taxed, and it's easy to implement services which don't give you a property return but still cost large amounts of isk. That creates big holes to drop isk into, in theory. Realism makes far more sense to me, rather than coming up with "fake" ways of taking isk out of circulation. I'd much rather see EvE work in a more realistic sense rather than fake ways of getting isk out of people's pockets.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:14:00 - [55] Originally by: Cardice Makar [ Yeah, I remember the 'upkeep' talk. Someone very well expressed the idea of hiring "ship crews" too, allowing Vetran [t2] crews to slightly increase ship efficiency at the cost of other aspects and ISK. Could work. I've always thought crews would be a GREAT isk sink. I always thought a good system would be that your crew is generic, but every ship has slots for "special officers", sort of like rigs or extra modules. You could have few or no slots for tiny ship classes, and a whole bunch of slots for large ship classes. Each "officer" would have certain ship-boosting attributes (like a rig) but would only be available from NPC vendors. They would also have a daily upkeep cost. The better they are, the more they cost. Fun, no? --------
Vasiliyan Dutch T2 Production	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:20:00 - [56] Some people have a lot of money, most don't. I'd like to see what happens when GTC selling is removed.
Stefx	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:25:00 - [57] -CCP should crrack down on macro miners -There should be no insurance payoff when at war (try to find an insurance company that will insure your car if you're shipping it to Irak for example...) -There should be no insurance payoff when your ship is destroyed by Concord
General Apocalypse Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:28:00 - [58] I can't see to much isk floating around tbh . 500 M is my worst case scenarion and i i didn't had it now i woudn't be in EVE anymore . TBH the ppl that are to rich don't usualy pvp. You won't see a very day pvper whit to many bilions. Also the amount of isk in you wallet depends on the amount of time you spend makeing them (yaaaawn) wich is not very fun , maybe 10/10 plexes are a bit fun due to the chalange and background . The best way to eliminate isk fountains is to obliderate the macro raters that rat all day long in a Raven whit cloack . Also kiling farmers like Vorgon did help EVE a lot. Curently the DEV team is working on giving us the tools to eliminate the 23/7 ratters. After that i don't think the'll be 2 much isk floating around , don't forget that the t2 market took a big nose dive as well so no more isk cascade from that direction. Thank You SkyFlyer
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:33:00 - [59] Originally by: General Apocalypse I can't see to much isk floating around tbh . 500 M is my worst case scenarion and i i didn't had it now i woudn't be in EVE anymore . TBH the ppl that are to rich don't usualy pvp. You won't see a very day pvper whit to many bilions. Also the amount of isk in you wallet depends on the amount of time you spend makeing them (yaaaawn) wich is not very fun , maybe 10/10 plexes are a bit fun due to the chalange and background . The best way to eliminate isk fountains is to obliderate the macro raters that rat all day long in a Raven whit cloack . Also kiling farmers like Vorgon did help EVE a lot. Curently the DEV team is working on giving us the tools to eliminate the 23/7 ratters. After that i don't think the'll be 2 much isk floating around , don't forget that the t2 market took a big nose dive as well so no more isk cascade from that direction. You think 500 million is your WORST CASE SCENARIO?! I don't think I've ever had that much money at once before At last count, I had less than 20 million isk in my account. And I own 1 cruiser. A Celestis, of all things. War is a pricey old game for the lazy --------
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.05 19:39:00 - [60] Edited by: Petrothian Tong on 05/06/2007 19:41:58 the genie is out of the bottle.. if you NERF ppl's isk income or ppl's isk loss... the rich will only get richer and the poor gets poorer. (well I can see the guys who thinks eve has too much isk IS someone will too much isk..) theres an alternative... sent me 1 billion, =P I would be a happy camper if you do that, double win, you wont feel that theres too much isk anymore..(unless you are like... insanely rich..) and this poor sap dont have to grind isk for afew months... oh, and nerf T2 markets... make invention % of success better (ships are just horrible...).. that way, the gap between the rich and poor will diminish even futher....(yeah yeah, I know only afew bps are worth it.. but hey, still make better money.) edit: yeah... rich ppl will endorse this nerf... =P poor guy like me will violently say no... or will stop pvp, market pvp and helping newbies all together....yes I still give away Frigs and fittings to newbies to the game... -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur

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