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Neurosis Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 13:43:00 - [1] After playing on Sisi for a couple of hours yesterday It seemed a lot like CCP was attempting to bring back skirmish warfare. Before carriers, MS, And Titans it was very feasible for a small group of PvP'ers to impact alliance operations using hit and run tactics and by controlling key entrances to 0.0 My question is how will the addition of bombs, the new pos mods, and POS jump bridges affect how alliances do business as well as how does this affect smaller alliances. From my viewpoint bombs are the best anti-blob tool ever introduced, kinda like a poor mans DD, and with the DD being able to only being detonated with the ship on the field it looks like this may give smaller alliances and PvP forces a way to fight back. New pos mods from my take seem to be geared towards making it much harder to initially assault a POS, preventing your 2-4 man dread operations from effectively being able to take on a large tower, this also seems like it may deter much of the pos piracy I see. Being able to take out pos defenses requires a fair force to be effective but how will this affect system sieges when dreads mow down an entire system of pos's defenses leaving them unprotected. Lastly POS Jump Bridges, seems like this may do an amazing amount for server performance removing so many jump que's, this also seems to be the poor man's titan giving small alliances ways to move ships and equipment deep into enemy territory, or for small alliances to completely bypass some of the more painful to defend entrances. being in an alliance with a fair number of super capitals and seeing directly the benefit of them logistically and tactically, it now appears we may soon be facing an enemy with much better means to effectively counter us without having to spend the gazillion isk to build mother ships and titans. discuss _________________________________________________' "I have the ability and the experience to do destroy BoB and believe me, BoB is getting desperate" 'Madeye'McCreedy' [red]Sig is not eve r
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.06.06 13:52:00 - [2] Well, its freaking time that something changes don't you think? The rich boys already had their prime time for too long if you ask me.
Astasia Orian Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 13:54:00 - [3] The bridge module requires 5 weeks of holding sov + a large tower to run it. It has a very limited range (which is a good) thing, so it won't be the total cheesefest of 'no more stargates' that people are likely to complain about. On one hand it's going to be rather convenient, on the other it means less opportunity to find exposed freighters/haulers. Overall I think the pos changes are going to expand the concept of Total War, as opposed to just bringing out the dreads at two 10-minute windows. You'll need smaller, agile gangs to disable guns, disable cyno jammers, etc. In the end it's still about having to put consistent, organized effort into taking space, so the same people crying 'poswar buhu' now will still be complaining.
Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.06 13:58:00 - [4] So everybody can set up jump bridge nets to empire and move freighters with no risk. whoopie. It was a bad idea to allow that on titans and it'll be a bad idea here.
Cupdeez Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:00:00 - [5] Don't forget about the fact that you can't jump into someones system if they have the new cyno net up and running. 1st you have to take in BSs and kill the anti-cyno generator (not sure how well this will go since its installed at a pos outside the sheilds) After this is down then you can jump dread and carriers in. Defending a system will be easy since you don't have to worry about hostile Capitals jumpping in on your fleet. You say roaming gang will be good I don't think this is going to be the case but it might be... I think you will see 3-8 carriers camping gates with large bubbles up knowning damn well no hostiles can drop capitals on you. Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Eldo Davip
Talen Reaper O.R.C. Outrage Compliant Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:02:00 - [6] the alliances that have the capabilities to hold space or to have allies hold space for them will be able to move cap ship fleets all over 00 space quickly thus giving them a tactical advantage over those who don't ..now what alliance in EvE does this help the most ???????
Astasia Orian Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:05:00 - [7] Originally by: Vile rat So everybody can set up jump bridge nets to empire and move freighters with no risk. whoopie. It was a bad idea to allow that on titans and it'll be a bad idea here. The bridge has a 5 LY range. You can't claim sov in empire. I admit that posting AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is more fun than facts though.
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:10:00 - [8] Faster logistic, faster travel mean bigger blob.
Major Stormer Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Cupdeez Don't forget about the fact that you can't jump into someones system if they have the new cyno net up and running. 1st you have to take in BSs and kill the anti-cyno generator (not sure how well this will go since its installed at a pos outside the sheilds) After this is down then you can jump dread and carriers in. Defending a system will be easy since you don't have to worry about hostile Capitals jumpping in on your fleet. You say roaming gang will be good I don't think this is going to be the case but it might be... I think you will see 3-8 carriers camping gates with large bubbles up knowning damn well no hostiles can drop capitals on you. True, but it also means if those carriers leave the system, they will have to wait for the anti-cyno system to be taken offline, during which the enemy can drop in capitals. Its just a game. Get over yourselfs.
VoYvod Amarr Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:13:00 - [10] quit the whining 1st off i'm sure things will be fixed b4 it comes out , if it doesnt im sure the nerf bat will hit some things soon , but that anti-cyno generator , who ever thought of that deserves a kick in the throat a few times

Crohnx Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Astasia Orian Originally by: Vile rat So everybody can set up jump bridge nets to empire and move freighters with no risk. whoopie. It was a bad idea to allow that on titans and it'll be a bad idea here. The bridge has a 5 LY range. You can't claim sov in empire. I admit that posting AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is more fun than facts though. when did a goon post anything that made sense?
EzSnake Caldari The Silent Rage R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:17:00 - [12] Don't ya need Const Sov and have 3 outpost in that const will, to use most of these new 'toys'.... making it far more difficult for the 'little guys' to utilize many of the new features ________________________________________________ Next MMO
Myz Toyou Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:45:00 - [13] The bombs seems quite useless according to a movie I saw these days here on the forums! - 2 bombs to pop a untanked wolf - 3 bombs to pop an untanked cruiser - and 5 or 6 bombs for an untanked Raven /me sees blobs of bombers near the chokepoints soon(TM) CYVOK > All you station jockies better get out their and start killing these idiots
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:59:00 - [14] Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 06/06/2007 14:58:28 Jump bridges make people too mobile.
David Ryan Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:21:00 - [15] Originally by: Cupdeez Don't forget about the fact that you can't jump into someones system if they have the new cyno net up and running. 1st you have to take in BSs and kill the anti-cyno generator (not sure how well this will go since its installed at a pos outside the sheilds) After this is down then you can jump dread and carriers in. Defending a system will be easy since you don't have to worry about hostile Capitals jumpping in on your fleet. You say roaming gang will be good I don't think this is going to be the case but it might be... I think you will see 3-8 carriers camping gates with large bubbles up knowning damn well no hostiles can drop capitals on you. I like the concept of having to send in non-capitals to disable the anti-cyno, but in reality it just wouldn't work well. The defender would just put a blob of carriers on the gate making it not possible for the incoming fleet to do get anywhere.. -------------------
Chirinako Caldari Legionari Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:24:00 - [16] In a nutshell, I think that CCP are trying to employ anti-blob tactics. Although in some cases I can see it being quite the opposite. Goon: "OMG BOB MS 10k OFF GATE@@@@@" GoonFC: "WOW READY THE BOMBER FLEET!!!!@@@" GoonGrunt: "LEEROOOOOOY@@@@@@@@@@@" GoonFC: "KWIK WARP IN THE 600 BOMBERS ON THE MS DROP BOMBS AND BANG BANG BANG!!!" Bob MS: "o noe...NOE..NOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...//////" bang I do agree though that Rev2 is being designed to bring back Skirmish warfare and for that I am thankful because I don't like playing a game that reduces itself to 1 frame every 10 seconds when there's more than 50 people on grid.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:35:00 - [17] I dont see jump bridges and cyno mods making much of an effect on an alliance's widespread logistics due to the sov. requirements. However, they finally give the defender an advantage over the attacker, say you have a pair of outposts in a constellation. Your fleet is stuck in outpost system #1, while outpost system #2 is under attack. You can use your very-short range jump bridge array to move your fleet into a defensive position in outpost system #2. They'll also make internal logistics much, much easier. Moving a large quantity of minerals, pos fuel or capital components from one outpost to another will simply be a matter of undocking the freighter and sending it to the pos, instead of a 100-man 6-hour marathon freighter op between the systems. Should make pos logisitics alot easier.
The Anointed Caldari KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:47:00 - [18] Edited by: The Anointed on 06/06/2007 15:51:46 I think the idea of having a mod on the pos to disable all cynos in the system is awesome. Should stop an entire system being washed away overnight with the defending alliance not having the cap ships to cope with it. At least gives them a chance to fight back to a certain extent. The addition of player controled defences that are outside of a pos sheild is similar to the above statement, allowing people to focus fire leggaly and put up a bit of a fight. Link that with a cyno inhibitor and you have the potential for pos takedowns being stupidly difficult. Take this imaginary situation for instance, anyone attacking a hostile POS would have to face focused fire from player controlled guns, as well as standard pos guns, whilst not being able to cyno in anything. So they get a nice large blob of bs's to throw at this pos. 10 mins into the fight 10 throwaway bombers warp in. I can imagine the cries on vent already. The jump bridge is quite cool again, it gives smaller alliances the ability to jump large fleets to a pos elsewhere, again with the other additions this makes it more feasable to claim an area of space with less people. Does the jump bridge allow the jumping of cap ships? Would be un balanced if it did. Bombs, well im kind of undecided on them at the moment, mainly because they are easy to train for and would be stupidly overpowered in swarms (hint hint). youl probably see every ship in the game fitting lunchers with defender missiles to try and counter them, or more than likely people sitting at pos's and deep safes untill they know they arent going to get nuked by a fleet of bombers. So far the changes that I have seen on the test server seem to be in the right direction for allowing better control of space, but at the same time, I was under the impression the idea was to make it so that small gangs could have an impact on territory control.
Vodka Neat Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:48:00 - [19] I like the changes for the simple fact that it will be something different. Right now most everyone is still thinking in the strategy of how it has been. Give it a few weeks on the live server to see some master tactician come up with the new "way it should be done". Why are you still reading? Its over. Continue to the next post.
Kar Strike Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:48:00 - [20] Originally by: Astasia Orian Originally by: Vile rat So everybody can set up jump bridge nets to empire and move freighters with no risk. whoopie. It was a bad idea to allow that on titans and it'll be a bad idea here. The bridge has a 5 LY range. You can't claim sov in empire. I admit that posting AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is more fun than facts though. uh... Originally by: Astasia Orian On one hand it's going to be rather convenient, on the other it means less opportunity to find exposed freighters/haulers. You already raised a very similar point to him. Now you disagree with someone just because of their ticker? That's not at all petty.

Grim Faust Kinetic Vector Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:49:00 - [21] Some things I'd be interested to know is; What's the overall requirements of the grid/cpu of a anti-cyno generator? I find this important to know because it will signify just how hard or easy they will be to defend. This is of course in terms of , if you place this at a designated POS, how much room is left to support turrets to defend it? How tough are they to kill in comparrison to one turret? I also find this important because the scale of damage needed to take one out in comparison to how hard a turret is to take out will determine a likely strikes target. If it's as easy to kill as one turret then you'll obviously kill the anti-cyno first and hop out asap. If it's as easy as killing 4 turrets and there are less than 4 turrets, you'd kill the turrets first of course. But if it were as tough as 4 turrets and there were more than 4 turrets, once again, timewise you'd probably go for the anti-cyno first. I also don't see how this helps the smaller alliances either. Perhaps if you already hold space, then maybe. But to have 3 outposts to start is no small feat. Not to mention the fact that if you DON'T already hold space, these new features will make it that much harder for smaller alliances to take down such things and get a foothold. In my opinion, these changes just solidify powerblocks even more and that in my opinion is not what the game needed. __________________________________________________ I survived CCP eating all my sigs and all I got was a crappy colorful moderator message... colorful? -Sahwoolo ... =(
Githtakai Gallente Crab and Krawdad Enterprises	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:50:00 - [22] Edited by: Githtakai on 06/06/2007 15:49:44 At one point you could put up guns and other modules during reinforced mode under the new changes. Has anyone here played with that recently? If that's still the way of things it makes POSs cheaper because they won't have guns running most of the time... You just have one jammer POS with some guns. Then once the bad guys take that down and put your POSs into reinforced you activate guns everywhere and put up a new cyno jammer with some spare offline jammers (because you can only run one per system) in case the enemy blows up your main one. Better yet, now that you have warning you can set up remote repping carriers to defend the anti-cyno module and the attacker will have to defeat numerous capital ships in order to down the cyno-jammer. I know they are changing things a lot but that's how it was last time I checked and it looked like a defender could make things MUCH more difficult than it is today. (Edited: clarity)
Crusari Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:52:00 - [23] They should have made it easier to kill a POS, not harder. It already encourages fleets to bring in loads of ppl just to protect the capitals.
The Anointed Caldari KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:58:00 - [24] The fact that the defenders have the ability to use cap ships to defend a system against an attacker that cant cyno in his own cap ships, puts the defender on teh high ground by a large amount. Thats going to incite insane blobs. Bombers are going to be used to excess seeing as they are pretty throwaway. Mmmm, Trevs post about people being too rich is going to go out the window when people start trying to take down pos's.
Astasia Orian Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:00:00 - [25] Quote: So everybody can set up jump bridge nets to empire and move freighters with no risk. whoopie. It's the emotive THIS IS TERRIBLE rubbish that I object to. It's not zero risk, it's reduced. It's not "everybody", it's people who are prepared to hold sov unmolested for 5 weeks, run a large tower, etc. The vast majority of 0.0 space-holding empires are connected to highsec via lowsec and then 0.0, not highsec -> 0.0 (or at least not the 0.0 that will be the destination for their freighters). Given that you can't claim sov in lowsec and that the bridge has quite a limited range, you'll see reduced opportunity to bag freighters going between 0.0 outposts/conqs in the same area, not OMG EVERYONE GETS INSTANTFREE BRIDGE FROM JITA TO NOL. Allainces will still be doing the vast majority of their bulk logstics the same way they do today. Discussion of new features always gets overwhelmed with the "lets state the worst possible scenario based on me having read 2 lines of information on the feature" posts so I'm whinging about that a bit :)
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:01:00 - [26] Edited by: Victor Vision on 06/06/2007 16:01:01 Originally by: Neurosis From my viewpoint bombs are the best anti-blob tool ever introduced, kinda like a poor mans DD... Poor mans strategy is the blob. Giving the poor man a good tool to kill themselves is very thoughtfull, indeed. Originally by: Neurosis New pos mods from my take seem to be geared towards making it much harder to initially assault a POS, preventing your 2-4 man dread operations from effectively being able to take on a large tower... That is great! It will help large alliances stay in power, and prevent anyone from wrongfully taking it from them. A splendid idea! Originally by: Neurosis Lastly POS Jump Bridges, seems like this may do an amazing amount for server performance removing so many jump que's, this also seems to be the poor man's titan giving small alliances ways to move ships and equipment deep into enemy territory... ... so they can then loose their equipment quickly to BoB. Providing BoB with fun pew-pew. Awesome. Originally by: Neurosis being in an alliance with a fair number of super capitals and seeing directly the benefit of them logistically and tactically, it now appears we may soon be facing an enemy with much better means to effectively counter us without having to spend the gazillion isk to build mother ships and titans. That is right. Others besides BoB should not build motherships and titans. That would be just wrong and unfair. And yes, they should instead bring many targets which can easily be killed by titans and motherships. Overall, seems like excellent ideas. What I am missing is alliance owned sentry-guns. These should only be available to the alliance which effectively controls most of 0.0 though. They fought hard for it, and deserve this priviledge. That would nicely round up the package. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Major Stallion The Dark Horses Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Talen Reaper the alliances that have the capabilities to hold space or to have allies hold space for them will be able to move cap ship fleets all over 00 space quickly thus giving them a tactical advantage over those who don't ..now what alliance in EvE does this help the most ??????? ZING! score one for you, my friend. Well placed pot shot! =D
Grim Faust Kinetic Vector Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:10:00 - [28] Edited by: Grim Faust on 06/06/2007 16:12:22 Originally by: The Anointed The fact that the defenders have the ability to use cap ships to defend a system against an attacker that cant cyno in his own cap ships, puts the defender on teh high ground by a large amount. Thats going to incite insane blobs. Bombers are going to be used to excess seeing as they are pretty throwaway. Mmmm, Trevs post about people being too rich is going to go out the window when people start trying to take down pos's. In a nutshell that pretty much sums things up. You have someone with a MS or 3 and a stack of 20-30 dreads/carriers with possible support to defend. How the heck are you going to be able to take that sort of system with no caps to assualt with. Just think about then scaling that up with people who can bring 100 caps to the field. How many BS would it take to overthrow such a force??? The answer is way too damn many. Hell! That even pidgeon holes people in to getting DD'd to death. Can't assault with caps? Bring in the small ships to swarm the POS! WRONG. DD. YOU LOSE. LAWL... __________________________________________________ I survived CCP eating all my sigs and all I got was a crappy colorful moderator message... colorful? -Sahwoolo ... =(
Hey You Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:21:00 - [29] Originally by: Victor Vision Useless Take on new Changes Do you Dream about us regularly? Are those dreams good or bad? Do you have nightmares about us? Do you have BoB Posters on your room walls? Are you in love with BoB? And finally and most important... Would a hug help? To fall in love and fall in debt To alcohol and cigarettes and Mary Jane To keep me insane and doing someone else's cocain
Crohnx Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:22:00 - [30] Edited by: Crohnx on 06/06/2007 16:23:08 lmfao at least wait for patch and than give up...geez

Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:26:00 - [31] Originally by: Hey You Originally by: Victor Vision Useless Take on new Changes Do you Dream about us regularly? Are those dreams good or bad? Do you have nightmares about us? Do you have BoB Posters on your room walls? Are you in love with BoB? And finally and most important... Would a hug help? HeyYou, I said the changes are excellent. Also I did not mention the name of your wonderfull alliance anywhere in this thread. So where lies your problem, dear sir? Do you need a hug? Besides, you post off topic. Please comment on the new features, this is what this thread is about. EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Hey You Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Victor Vision ... so they can then loose their equipment quickly to BoB. Providing BoB with fun pew-pew. Awesome. That is right. Others besides BoB should not build motherships and titans. That would be just wrong and unfair. And yes, they should instead bring many targets which can easily be killed by titans and motherships. Overall, seems like excellent ideas. N o i mentioned us To fall in love and fall in debt To alcohol and cigarettes and Mary Jane To keep me insane and doing someone else's cocain
Interval The Triad Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:33:00 - [33] What I like about the changes is that you have to watch your systems more closely now otherwise roaming gangs can cause you harm.
Shining Shadow Business Associates	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:33:00 - [34] Originally by: Grim Faust You have someone with a MS or 3 and a stack of 20-30 dreads/carriers with possible support to defend. How the heck are you going to be able to take that sort of system with no caps to assualt with. Just think about then scaling that up with people who can bring 100 caps to the field. How many BS would it take to overthrow such a force??? The answer is way too damn many. The cynojamming module need constellation Sov to be active. I don't think your target alliance will have a capital fleet waiting in every system of their home constellation as well as cyno jammers in all of them. Just attack one of the weaker systems in the constellation first to cause them to lose Sov, then go for the one you want when their defenses have weakened due to lost Sov. At least that's what I figure would be a reasonable way after reading about the changes.
Sidrat Flush Caldari Wolf Pack Enterprises E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:35:00 - [35] The new features are a step in the right direction for allowing the alliances who control..no read HOLD space to defend it properly. Seems a shame that it's about a year too late, but then again, those alliances without a cap fleet or a small one that they don't practice with will always be at a disadvantage. This is what BoB members do. Go on to the test server and see how the future of Eve will play out. The O.P is there doing it already and it's what several months down the line. If you want to be a major alliance ALL members should be required to spend time on the test server and see what it's all going to be about, instead of resting on the laurels of yesterdays tactics and thinking they'll always work. I don't have real love or hate for BoB, it's what they do and they do it well. They also ask opinions from other alliances too. Suffice to say, if you're not holding space with enough capital to purchase these new toys your space will not be as well protected as others who have done their research. Adapt to Survive. Life is about memories the more the better. End Slavery.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:41:00 - [36] Edited by: Victor Vision on 06/06/2007 16:51:27 Originally by: Hey You Originally by: Victor Vision ... so they can then loose their equipment quickly to BoB. Providing BoB with fun pew-pew. Awesome. That is right. Others, besides the largest alliance, should not build motherships and titans. That would be just wrong and unfair. And yes, they should instead bring many targets which can easily be killed by titans and motherships. Overall, seems like excellent ideas. N o i mentioned us You mean to say I mentioned your alliance by name in this thread? Where? You must be hallucinating EVE War I - Quick Overview (Feb/March)
Grim Faust Kinetic Vector Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:51:00 - [37] Originally by: Shining Shadow The cynojamming module need constellation Sov to be active. I don't think your target alliance will have a capital fleet waiting in every system of their home constellation as well as cyno jammers in all of them. Just attack one of the weaker systems in the constellation first to cause them to lose Sov, then go for the one you want when their defenses have weakened due to lost Sov. At least that's what I figure would be a reasonable way after reading about the changes. You seem to forget, you don't need a cap fleet actually in every system you own. You'll have jump bridges to remedy that. Also, to not put a cyno jammer in every system you need to hold sovereignty would be stupid on an alliances behalf and they deserve to lose sov. if they don't plan for that. Unless cyno jammers are incredibly expensive, putting one in every system you own will be a new trend. Same goes for jump bridges. One thing I'd like to know though, is if cyno jammers work against friendly cyno's as well. Either or, jump bridges will more than likely be the resolution to that problem for defenders moving caps around home turf. __________________________________________________ I survived CCP eating all my sigs and all I got was a crappy colorful moderator message... colorful? -Sahwoolo ... =(
Nhaz Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:31:00 - [38] as someone who has played around with the bombers on the test server at this time they were in no way affect blob warfare with any real difference. It has what i call the "ohsht" effect. Unfortunately seeing that SIG radius appears to be the deciding factor in the damage the bomb does, therefore it does almost no damage against small ships. and not enough damage against large ships. Dropping a bomb on a gate and jumping causes the bomb to dissappear. bombs can be destroyed by smart bombs. it will take 20 bombers to take a large enough chunk out of a cap ships capacitor to keep it from running away. ECM bombs are ecm burst. not too useful, ever. The bombers can only carry a total of 4 bombs 2 in the launcher and 2 in the bay. The bombs being 75m3 in size. the price of the bombs themselves will keep the numbers of these being deployed fairly low. its effectively like spending a cruiser for every bomb dropped. alot of people can afford it but not in serious numbers. While i love the idea of stealth bombers. at this time they will play no serious part of fleet warfare. _____________________________________________ It's NOT paranoia, If they REALLY ARE out to get you!
Ruato Gallente Gurgleblaster Industries	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:35:00 - [39] Originally by: Neurosis From my viewpoint bombs are the best anti-blob tool ever introduced, kinda like a poor mans DD, and with the DD being able to only being detonated with the ship on the field it looks like this may give smaller alliances and PvP forces a way to fight back. I find their attempt to create these anti blob weapons kinda funny because whole eve is designed so that it basically forces blobbing. Meaning that theres couple places in each solarsystem where you can go (stations, gates, pos, asteroid belts). There will always be blobbing until they find a way to allow free travel (and make all that wasted space usable) inside the solarsystem. --- *Get rid of those bleeping secure containers. bleep!*
Pesadel0 Ordem dos Templarios	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:40:00 - [40] Originally by: Astasia Orian Originally by: Vile rat So everybody can set up jump bridge nets to empire and move freighters with no risk. whoopie. It was a bad idea to allow that on titans and it'll be a bad idea here. The bridge has a 5 LY range. You can't claim sov in empire. I admit that posting AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is more fun than facts though. He has a point ,what keeps people form establishing a jump bridge net of large POS? I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.

Agmar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:54:00 - [41] Originally by: Pesadel0 what keeps people form establishing a jump bridge net of large POS? The need for sovereignty.
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:55:00 - [42] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: Astasia Orian Originally by: Vile rat So everybody can set up jump bridge nets to empire and move freighters with no risk. whoopie. It was a bad idea to allow that on titans and it'll be a bad idea here. The bridge has a 5 LY range. You can't claim sov in empire. I admit that posting AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is more fun than facts though. He has a point ,what keeps people form establishing a jump bridge net of large POS? Enemies with the balls to attack the pos? Nemo me impune lacessit
Thundirr Amarr Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:06:00 - [43] I have a few questions on the 'methods of jump bridging' between POS. 1: Freighter A makes it to a POS in low sec .1 space Owned by alliance A for 5 weeks. Can Freighter 1 jump from a POS in low sec to a POS in 0.0 held by alliance B that has had SOV for 5 weeks. Or Do the Jump bridges have to be between Towers held by the same Corp? or Same Alliance? or Just having the pilots in the same gang? So the question is. Can i jump from a friendly Jump bridge to an alliance one? or is it alliance/corp only.
Agmar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:12:00 - [44] Originally by: Thundirr I have a few questions on the 'methods of jump bridging' between POS. 1: Freighter A makes it to a POS in low sec .1 space Owned by alliance A for 5 weeks. Can Freighter 1 jump from a POS in low sec to a POS in 0.0 held by alliance B that has had SOV for 5 weeks. Or Do the Jump bridges have to be between Towers held by the same Corp? or Same Alliance? or Just having the pilots in the same gang? So the question is. Can i jump from a friendly Jump bridge to an alliance one? or is it alliance/corp only. AFAIK, it is going to be the same as cynoing... gang is all you need.
Aegis Osiris Gallente Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:22:00 - [45] Edited by: Aegis Osiris on 06/06/2007 19:24:16 I thought that the jump bridge module required the alliance to hold sov. If that's the case, then no lowsec POS's will be involved. They cyno jammer does, of course, provide a huge advantage to the defender. However, if I heard properly (maybe its been changed, I dunno) the cyno jammer disables ALL cynos, friendly and hostile. Perhaps that should remain, as 'perfect' defense (ie. your group with cap ships, the enemy with none) comes with the cost of not being able to move your own caps out of system. So, to really figure out the effects, we need to know the answers to 2 question: 1. Will the cyno jammer also disable friendly cyno fields? 2. Will the cyno jammer disable jump bridges? Also, if jump bridges require Constellation sov (they do, yes?), wouldnt that mean that you can only set them up within that constellation, or perhaps between if you hold sov in more then 1? I see those as useful for shuttling ships/good around the core systems, but little else tbh. ________________________________________________ This thread does not exist Sig in process....
TheArchJudge Gallente FinFleet	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:40:00 - [46] Edited by: TheArchJudge on 06/06/2007 19:40:34 Originally by: Thundirr I have a few questions on the 'methods of jump bridging' between POS. 1: Freighter A makes it to a POS in low sec .1 space Owned by alliance A for 5 weeks. Can Freighter 1 jump from a POS in low sec to a POS in 0.0 held by alliance B that has had SOV for 5 weeks. Or Do the Jump bridges have to be between Towers held by the same Corp? or Same Alliance? or Just having the pilots in the same gang? So the question is. Can i jump from a friendly Jump bridge to an alliance one? or is it alliance/corp only. I belive the pos jump bridge will be only betwen alliance (regardless of corp) pos's that have sovereignty for more than 5 weeks. That doesn't include any low sec pos or pos's in 0.0 npc space. It makes sence that way, at least for me. Anyways after reading the patch notes on development i can say that all are very nice ideas, that will increase the gameplay in one way or the other ... if only CCP would deploy them without any bug's or delays :P
munchy Prison Break Inc. FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:42:00 - [47] Edited by: munchy on 06/06/2007 19:47:09 Edited by: munchy on 06/06/2007 19:45:19 edit2 - bah screw it, im too stoned to post in this thread ---
OGUZ KAGAN SPACE TURK COPS	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:59:00 - [48] if i got it true these changes will only lead to an empire on 0,0 systems and after many things changed in last wars that this will lead an entity more and more overpowered. And for newcomer alliances it will be impossible to have a space in 0,0 and with the planted turrets on stargates it will be impossible for roaming gangs to enter these spaces. You will be like jumping stargates in empire with worst standing and Turrets will deal with your ships.And where you will make super capitals if you can have the enough isk or economy to built them ?? in Jita ?? So you will have to buy your ships from the 0,0 entities to attack them ?huh I think after this changes rev 2 name also must be changed to REBELLION VS EMPIRE ah and also some jedi skills would be awesome
Voltron Caldari STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:00:00 - [49] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: Astasia Orian Originally by: Vile rat So everybody can set up jump bridge nets to empire and move freighters with no risk. whoopie. It was a bad idea to allow that on titans and it'll be a bad idea here. The bridge has a 5 LY range. You can't claim sov in empire. I admit that posting AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is more fun than facts though. He has a point ,what keeps people form establishing a jump bridge net of large POS? Enemies with the balls to attack the pos? You mean SPACEBALLS? Volt It's great touching your own dink isn't it? "Droog812 > normally id care if it was a logon trap - but considering bobs history of taking down super caps, i dont care how it died"
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:11:00 - [50] Basically they've given a long term territorial alliance the ability to put an entire system into seige mode. Should be interesting, at least.

Paltar Eternal Rising EternalRising	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:14:00 - [51] My main question/query is: At the moment Pos are under-effective... with the new changes they look alot more viable as staging points (if you can make your enemy come to you) and better defensive platforms without having to drop 5 or 6 "just to be sure". 1 well setup, expensive pos > lots of small crap ones. BUT at the moment the general pos defense is lots of guns in a vain hope to pop a ship or two with the alpha before the cycling starts. but with the new "outside shield defenses" does that not leave the Caldari towers a little open to exploitation. Install a cyno blocker... then lots of ECM, damps and POS NOS.... only the largest and toughest BS fleets will stand a chance of bringing down that cyno blocker with the amazing effectiveness of POS ECM and damps. sadly i don't have the resource to test it myself (like a large BS fleet) but thats the one thing that springs to mind once you remove cap ships from the equation in a pos takedown. I understand that the majority of POS won't have a cyno blocker.. .but surely the important systems will be bound to have one on release day. www.eternalrising.net
Ikarushka Gallente Delusive Influence	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:16:00 - [52] Originally by: Hey You Originally by: Victor Vision Useless Take on new Changes Do you Dream about us regularly? Are those dreams good or bad? Do you have nightmares about us? Do you have BoB Posters on your room walls? Are you in love with BoB? And finally and most important... Would a hug help? WTB a BoB poster for a reasonable price :)
Koronos Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:30:00 - [53] imo these changes will increase teh blob not reduce it. It is mentioned above how cyno suppressors will require the attackers to blob to kill the cyno suppressor, as they will be at a major disadvantage until it is done. More worrisome to me though, as I mentioned in another thread it seems like the jumpbridge will mean the attacking force will have to outblob the defender's entire fleetstrength every time they attack a system, right? I mean, you have your 10 dreads attacking the target system pos and you're camping the gates with 50, well, the defenders jumpbridge 20 dreads and 100 support on top of your dreads. At least without the jumpbridge or titans you could have warning when the 100 support come to kill you and you can hope to get your 10 dreads out. Now, if you know that the enemy has 20 dreads and 100 ships in their fleet, you will have to bring more than that every time you attack anything, right? what am I missing? Koronos
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:41:00 - [54] Doesn't the jump bridge require a cyno field? If the supressor is still up, they can't reinforce their POS with capitals from outside the system. If they drop the cynosuppressor, they expose themselves to the attackers waiting cyno fleet. This breaks up the blob for larger territorial alliances by requiring them to disperse their capital fleets across their territory in order to have support on hand in the event an attack force comes in. You can't have a blob on standby in EVERY system you control, so you're either forced to use massive support fleets and a handful of, if any, capital ships to defend a deathstar in a cyno guarded system, or you drop the cynosuppressor, blob up, and deal with whatever the enemy throws at you like y'all do now. For established alliances, its now possible to protect yourselves against the capital blob. You're back to battleship fleets with occassional capital support during wars against established powers.
MrMajIc VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:47:00 - [55] Well briefly reading the notes, and the general BS in the forums not really testing it out much in sisi. I see good ideas which will possible backfire. Lets take for instance the cyno-net thing..Ok i am sure you need some sorta sov. for it to be anchored. thus making taking space pretty difficult. All you need to do is blob up the nets, and sit the already difficult to kill motherships on the gates with the new ecm burst and yeah slaughterfest. I personally think the ecm burst should go toward a different ship class or a new one. Giving MOMs more power to turn fleet fights is already annoying as we all know who has massive amounts of them. (GJ on the cap builds) now the little worthless bombers.....well glad something is done for them cause they were quite lame. Pos bridges 5au...cute see how this one works who ever wants to keep up more pos work cool I am looking forward to seeing it used properly. now the pos changes I am not much for dealing with pos's i know their a bit overwhelming for a griefer like me (winks at Xelas to ZE POS) but to focus fire, mods exposed, and yeah whatever else would help maybe force more attacking force losses but it still will get pwnt by blobs of captials. anti-cyno thingies come in here, restrict attackers to send in the old school fleets.....but wait frack me there is 10 ms in system.......DOH! Sad it's about 1-2 months too late for d2 eh? So last words I think it will force more alliances ot form ties and work together, I HOPE it brings back more small gang, medium fights (f bomb them ms blobs waagaah) But I see ms just jump in ecm burst dictor warp fleet in pwnt. So yeah more thought plx before patching sharkbait!
Stevobob Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.06 22:14:00 - [56] One thing I'm a bit confused about: is the POS jump bridge going to be POS-to-POS only, or can you just open a jump portal to whereever?
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 23:12:00 - [57] Another thing that I like about rev 2 that hasnt been mentioned in this thread yet is that poses are going to have significantly lower hp when anchoring & onlining. This will make it harder to pos-spam, because you will have to defend the pos before it comes online. Make Mining Better
Talen Reaper O.R.C. Outrage Compliant Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 23:19:00 - [58] Originally by: munchy Edited by: munchy on 06/06/2007 19:47:09 Edited by: munchy on 06/06/2007 19:45:19 edit2 - bah screw it, im too stoned to post in this thread that make`s you primed to post in any eve-o thread ..I thought it was a prerequisite
Algorithm 5 Caldari Hakata Group Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.07 02:22:00 - [59] Originally by: Cupdeez Don't forget about the fact that you can't jump into someones system if they have the new cyno net up and running. 1st you have to take in BSs and kill the anti-cyno generator (not sure how well this will go since its installed at a pos outside the sheilds) After this is down then you can jump dread and carriers in. Defending a system will be easy since you don't have to worry about hostile Capitals jumpping in on your fleet. You say roaming gang will be good I don't think this is going to be the case but it might be... I think you will see 3-8 carriers camping gates with large bubbles up knowning damn well no hostiles can drop capitals on you. Co-ordinated suicide stealth bombers? Those bombs do a hell of a lot of damage... I see lots of room for interesting tactics here, beyond merely carriers camping battleships.
Algorithm 5 Caldari Hakata Group Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.07 02:32:00 - [60] Originally by: Grim Faust Edited by: Grim Faust on 06/06/2007 16:12:22 Originally by: The Anointed The fact that the defenders have the ability to use cap ships to defend a system against an attacker that cant cyno in his own cap ships, puts the defender on teh high ground by a large amount. Thats going to incite insane blobs. Bombers are going to be used to excess seeing as they are pretty throwaway. Mmmm, Trevs post about people being too rich is going to go out the window when people start trying to take down pos's. In a nutshell that pretty much sums things up. You have someone with a MS or 3 and a stack of 20-30 dreads/carriers with possible support to defend. How the heck are you going to be able to take that sort of system with no caps to assualt with. Just think about then scaling that up with people who can bring 100 caps to the field. How many BS would it take to overthrow such a force??? The answer is way too damn many. It may be just me, but it sounds a bit like you are suggesting that the new anti-blob changes will make blobbing ineffective? Originally by: Grim Faust Hell! That even pidgeon holes people in to getting DD'd to death. Can't assault with caps? Bring in the small ships to swarm the POS! WRONG. DD. YOU LOSE. LAWL... And small ship blobbing is ineffective too... As I replied to someone else, perhaps all that's needed it to trickle in some stealth bombers, get them safed, and when you are ready to go, bomb the cyno jammer. There's only one per system so even if another is anchored, it's going to take some time to get it online. During that time, the Falcon/Arazu you have in there pops the cyno field, and in come the capitals. It's just going to mean there's no way to go directly from one lurking recon to OMGWTF capital blob. It will actually require some small gang tactics and teamwork. Or I could be completely wrong and it will be a total cluster**** :)

Exco Executor Occam's Razor Combine R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.07 03:07:00 - [61] Originally by: Neurosis Lastly POS Jump Bridges, seems like this may do an amazing amount for server performance removing so many jump que's, this also seems to be the poor man's titan giving small alliances ways to move ships and equipment deep into enemy territory, or for small alliances to completely bypass some of the more painful to defend entrances. Jump Bridges have static max range of 5 ly, what is very very short range. (Carrier jumps further with minimum skills) Therefore I think CCP did nerf this new array before even patch launch... www.occam-razor.com
Jack Cannon The 5 Amigo's LLC. NxT LeveL	Posted - 2007.06.07 05:54:00 - [62] Everyone poo poo'ing bombers has no idea what they are talking about. No, 100 bombers on a gate will not be effective as only a few of them can launch bombs and only of the exact same damage type in a given cycle. Sure after that a few more bombers can launch their bombs but it will hardly be an end to blob warfare. Also anything with ANY kind of speed (ccp encouraging fast ships? me head spins!!!) will easily escape the bombs. So it's not a frig nerf as long as you don't all orbit the same thing within that 15km sphere with EVERY single frig in your fleet. (but oh no he says... what about primary aren't we all supposed to fire on the same one?) As for the pos upgrades time will tell there. I really haven't played enough with them to form an opinion. It should be interesting.
Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.07 06:05:00 - [63] Originally by: Astasia Orian Originally by: Vile rat So everybody can set up jump bridge nets to empire and move freighters with no risk. whoopie. It was a bad idea to allow that on titans and it'll be a bad idea here. The bridge has a 5 LY range. You can't claim sov in empire. I admit that posting AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is more fun than facts though. While you could not claim sov in empire you could set up a jump chain that would vastly reduce the risk involved in moving freighters. While logisticians will jump for joy it makes destroying the freighters almost impossible. It makes holding large sections of space easy compared to how it is now and the difficulty in holding and maintaining conquerable space is one of the natural built in limitations on how big a space empire can become. It's a good check/balance and should be encouraged to remain instead of destroyed. Quote: when did a goon post anything that made sense? Hey thanks for this. Your contributions to this thread are a shining beacon of insight in an otherwise dark and dreary realm of ignorance.
Arenis Xemdal Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.07 06:43:00 - [64] CCP's changes will only phase out the relevance of having Supercapitals from alliance warfare, as they are more or less introducing a poor man's Doomsday and a more static version of the Jump Bridge. To compound that, there are numerous changes/nerfs that will mean a massive gamble every time you field a Mothership or Titan. Otherwise, POS warfare is not going to get any more fun or less tedious, and it will still come down to whoever has the bigger Dreadnaught fleet. Incapacitating POS mods may sound like a novel idea at first, but unless its followed by immediate reinforcing of the POS you've just wasted time, ammo, and possibly some ships doing it. To reinforce POS, people will still need to bring in Dreadnaughts to do it in any reasonable amount of time. And they won't be any more vulnerable versus undefended POS, which negates the whole point of bringing in a skirmish team to incapacitate the weaponry. The most significant change will be giving the support fleet (bs, hacs, bcs) something to shoot alongside the dreads, which could make it go slightly faster and less boring for support. Outright destroying the guns going to take even more time and ammo, and have the collective impact of costing the enemy 10-40mil ISK to replace his batteries.. which is a big fat whoop. Have each person in the gang npc for an hour or two and you can make enough to get yourselves a large tower. 7 day sovereignty clock with 5-9 day reinforced timers is sure going to win And having constellation sovereignty may sound like a great way to fortify space, until you realize they will just move in freighters to spam pos first, and worry about killing cyno inhibitors + using capitals later. Chances are, the array itself would get incapacitated pretty quick against a proper fleet.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.07 07:14:00 - [65] I think these changes are making regional warfare better. Even right now "who has the biggest dread fleet" is what wins POS warfare, so I dunno how big of an argument that really is. I want to see it in action for awhile before I make a final call though. - Recruitment open again-
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.07 07:15:00 - [66] Originally by: Exco Executor Jump Bridges have static max range of 5 ly, what is very very short range. (Carrier jumps further with minimum skills) Therefore I think CCP did nerf this new array before even patch launch... True, but then again you won't need to have a much farther jump bridge, just move your fleet to an adjacent system, and that way you may circumvent any gatecamp preventing you from doing it traditionally. - Recruitment open again-
Kinsy Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.06.07 09:17:00 - [67] Edited by: Kinsy on 07/06/2007 09:17:19 Originally by: Neurosis After playing on Sisi for a couple of hours yesterday It seemed a lot like CCP was attempting to bring back skirmish warfare. Please explain to me how you came to this conclusion. Originally by: Neurosis Before carriers, MS, And Titans it was very feasible for a small group of PvP'ers to impact alliance operations using hit and run tactics and by controlling key entrances to 0.0 Hell yes. Was this a bad thing? No. If they are unable to fight for their space, why should they own it? Now it is not a case of having to fight for ones space against a small well organised group. Just have a couple of capships ready to jump and fit your npcers with cyno generators. Yawn... Originally by: Neurosis Lastly POS Jump Bridges...being in an alliance with a fair number of super capitals and seeing directly the benefit of them logistically and tactically, it now appears we may soon be facing an enemy with much better means to effectively counter us without having to spend the gazillion isk to build mother ships and titans. ISK isnt so much of a problem...as stated, unless you already control the territory you cant build a POS jump bridge. Would you let a hostile alliance hold sov over a constellation in your back yard for longer than a week? The towers wouldn't last a week in even the most incompetent alliances back yard.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.07 09:23:00 - [68] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal CCP's changes will only phase out the relevance of having Supercapitals from alliance warfare, as they are more or less introducing a poor man's Doomsday and a more static version of the Jump Bridge. To compound that, there are numerous changes/nerfs that will mean a massive gamble every time you field a Mothership or Titan. Otherwise, POS warfare is not going to get any more fun or less tedious, and it will still come down to whoever has the bigger Dreadnaught fleet. Incapacitating POS mods may sound like a novel idea at first, but unless its followed by immediate reinforcing of the POS you've just wasted time, ammo, and possibly some ships doing it. To reinforce POS, people will still need to bring in Dreadnaughts to do it in any reasonable amount of time. And they won't be any more vulnerable versus undefended POS, which negates the whole point of bringing in a skirmish team to incapacitate the weaponry. The most significant change will be giving the support fleet (bs, hacs, bcs) something to shoot alongside the dreads, which could make it go slightly faster and less boring for support. Outright destroying the guns going to take even more time and ammo, and have the collective impact of costing the enemy 10-40mil ISK to replace his batteries.. which is a big fat whoop. Have each person in the gang npc for an hour or two and you can make enough to get yourselves a large tower. 7 day sovereignty clock with 5-9 day reinforced timers is sure going to win And having constellation sovereignty may sound like a great way to fortify space, until you realize they will just move in freighters to spam pos first, and worry about killing cyno inhibitors + using capitals later. Chances are, the array itself would get incapacitated pretty quick against a proper fleet. You would spam POS in a system where you can't put in capitals to defend them? Aside from the limitations they are saying they are gonna put on POS spamming, putting up POSses in a system under hostile control and him having capitals and not you seems like a bad idea. About POS warfare still being boring I would agree. Personally i think they should move all the Large POSses from the moons to the planets to claim sovereignty, and only allow small POSses at moons with industrial stuff. Reduces the amount of POSses needed to protect or attack a system immensely. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
Kebdil X-Fire	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:10:00 - [69] ok the way i see it, the cyno jammer can work both ways...help the alliance protect its system...but if the attacking force manages to first bring caps in system and then put a cyno jammer on...well then blob the gate and it can pretty much kill what it wants with almost no interjection? unless i missed something?although if the defending alliance has the pos jump net what is it to stop it from cynoying in the next system after the attacked one and go in from the gate behind? so the attackers will have to watch all gates:) any thoughts? -------------------- Proud member of X-Fire since my 1st day ---------- History is on the move captain, those who cannot keep up with it will be left behind to watch from a distance , But those wh
Tonoppa Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:16:00 - [70] one question about cyno jammers, if u jumped out of cyno-jammed system then turn around and go back into system but with cyno-jammed effect still ongoing, i assume friendly cant CYNO back into if so that is fair trade off then

Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:16:00 - [71] The new bombs will be a hell for carriers and moms. That diminishes the capital power a bit If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
The Dokter 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:49:00 - [72] Oke for the cyno jammers, you need sovereignity over the system or the constelation? And what happens when one of the weaker systems falls, the cyno thingie's stop working? Because then it will mean that cap fights will be less frequent. First you need to take out the cyno thingie in the system the least defended, then you need to take out the pos there and claim it. After that you can cyno in your capitals and bring in the fleet to the main target system. So for defending constelations it's not only important you have a big ammount of cap ships, but also a good bs or support fleet. Sounds like fun. "It is a good idea to "shop around" before you settle on a doctor. He can kill you."
Gunship Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:56:00 - [73] All these new things will mean alot of change, however those who evolve (sorry could not help myself) are proberly more likly to win (again). It will be even more important to be well structured and organized, atm I can only think of 3 Alliances that master this. So you want to join us?
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.06.07 12:10:00 - [74] Originally by: Victor Vision Edited by: Victor Vision on 06/06/2007 16:49:49 Edited by: Victor Vision on 06/06/2007 16:01:01 Originally by: Neurosis From my viewpoint bombs are the best anti-blob tool ever introduced, kinda like a poor mans DD... Poor mans strategy is the blob. Giving the poor man a good tool to kill themselves is very thoughtfull, indeed. Originally by: Neurosis New pos mods from my take seem to be geared towards making it much harder to initially assault a POS, preventing your 2-4 man dread operations from effectively being able to take on a large tower... That is great! It will help the largest alliance to stay in power, and prevent anyone from wrongfully taking it from them. A splendid idea! Originally by: Neurosis Lastly POS Jump Bridges, seems like this may do an amazing amount for server performance removing so many jump que's, this also seems to be the poor man's titan giving small alliances ways to move ships and equipment deep into enemy territory... ... so they can then loose their equipment quickly to the largest alliance. Providing the largest alliance with fun pew-pew. Awesome. Originally by: Neurosis being in an alliance with a fair number of super capitals and seeing directly the benefit of them logistically and tactically, it now appears we may soon be facing an enemy with much better means to effectively counter us without having to spend the gazillion isk to build mother ships and titans. That is right. Others, besides the largest alliance, should not build motherships and titans. That would be just wrong and unfair. And yes, they should instead bring many targets which can easily be killed by titans and motherships. Overall, seems like excellent ideas. What I am missing is alliance owned sentry-guns. These should only be available to the alliance which effectively controls most of 0.0 though. They fought hard for it, and deserve this priviledge. That would nicely round up the package. You, good sir, are a plank. good day...
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.06.07 12:12:00 - [75] Originally by: Victor Vision Edited by: Victor Vision on 06/06/2007 16:14:53 Originally by: Grim Faust Edited by: Grim Faust on 06/06/2007 16:10:44 Edited by: Grim Faust on 06/06/2007 16:09:48 Originally by: The Anointed The fact that the defenders have the ability to use cap ships to defend a system against an attacker that cant cyno in his own cap ships, puts the defender on teh high ground by a large amount. Thats going to incite insane blobs. Bombers are going to be used to excess seeing as they are pretty throwaway. Mmmm, Trevs post about people being too rich is going to go out the window when people start trying to take down pos's. In a nutshell that pretty much sums things up. You have someone with a MS and a stack of 20-30 dreads/carriers with possible support to defend. How the heck are you going to be able to take that sort of system. Just think about then scaling that up with people who can bring 100 caps to the field. How many BS would it take to take over such a force??? The answer is way too damn many. Hell! That even pidgeon holes people in to getting DD'd to death. Can't assault with super-caps? Bring in the small ships to swarm the POS! WRONG. DD. YOU LOSE. LAWL... I find it fairly outrageous these wonderfull new features are being criticised. I am sure CCP talked directly with the most qualified players in EVE before implementing them. Also the devs with alliance experience surely gave their input as well. Thus, the new features are just perfect for the game, and good for all of us. Still a plank...
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.06.07 12:13:00 - [76] Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Hey You Originally by: Victor Vision Useless Take on new Changes Do you Dream about us regularly? Are those dreams good or bad? Do you have nightmares about us? Do you have BoB Posters on your room walls? Are you in love with BoB? And finally and most important... Would a hug help? HeyYou, I said the changes are excellent. Also I did not mention the name of your wonderfull alliance anywhere in this thread. So where lies your problem, dear sir? Do you need a hug? Besides, you post off topic. Please comment on the new features, this is what this thread is about. The plankness continues....
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.06.07 12:19:00 - [77] Originally by: Thundirr I have a few questions on the 'methods of jump bridging' between POS. 1: Freighter A makes it to a POS in low sec .1 space Owned by alliance A for 5 weeks. Can Freighter 1 jump from a POS in low sec to a POS in 0.0 held by alliance B that has had SOV for 5 weeks. Or Do the Jump bridges have to be between Towers held by the same Corp? or Same Alliance? or Just having the pilots in the same gang? So the question is. Can i jump from a friendly Jump bridge to an alliance one? or is it alliance/corp only. By the sounds of the things in this thread, and using a little common sense, I would suggest that both sides of the bridge would need to be in sovereign space. And since nobody can hold sovereignity in low sec, the jump bridge will never exist between low sec and 0.0... Unless I am reading something wrong...
EzSnake Caldari The Silent Rage R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.07 12:31:00 - [78] Edited by: EzSnake on 07/06/2007 12:30:48 Mattduk - how about you post on TOPIC and stop trolling with your "plank" post(s).....mmmkay!! Testing on SiSi-- unless you had the skills to use these new toys, 2/3 months prior to their announcement, then sisi is useless for a testing platform as you can't use items!!! ________________________________________________ Next MMO
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.07 12:41:00 - [79] You keep talking about the possibilities for 'small alliances', but have you considered the uses of and imba caused by 'large alliances' using all these shiny new things?
busta nut Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:16:00 - [80] Originally by: EzSnake Edited by: EzSnake on 07/06/2007 12:30:48 Mattduk - how about you post on TOPIC and stop trolling with your "plank" post(s).....mmmkay!! Testing on SiSi-- unless you had the skills to use these new toys, 2/3 months prior to their announcement, then sisi is useless for a testing platform as you can't use items!!! actually they recently gave everyone the skills to use some of the new toys, i think its based on what you could use before- so if you could use carriers, you can test the triage mod, personally i was given - not trained for on either server- the skills to use bombs on the test server. just an FYI

Koronos Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.09 14:14:00 - [81] Originally by: Janu Hull Doesn't the jump bridge require a cyno field? Does it? That was not my understanding. Originally by: Janu Hull If the supressor is still up, they can't reinforce their POS with capitals from outside the system. If they drop the cynosuppressor, they expose themselves to the attackers waiting cyno fleet. This breaks up the blob for larger territorial alliances by requiring them to disperse their capital fleets across their territory in order to have support on hand in the event an attack force comes in. You can't have a blob on standby in EVERY system you control, so you're either forced to use massive support fleets and a handful of, if any, capital ships to defend a deathstar in a cyno guarded system, or you drop the cynosuppressor, blob up, and deal with whatever the enemy throws at you like y'all do now. For established alliances, its now possible to protect yourselves against the capital blob. You're back to battleship fleets with occassional capital support during wars against established powers. Which would seem to necessiate absolute maximum blobsize, no? I guess I just don't get how these changes are supposed to reduce blob. If thats not their intention, 1) well, okay, but more importantly 2) why not? :p Koronos Fixing lag > all other changes please. Oh except the titan nerf, thats good. :)
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.09 15:34:00 - [82] Originally by: Neurosis From my viewpoint bombs are the best anti-blob tool ever introduced, kinda like a poor mans DD, and with the DD being able to only being detonated with the ship on the field it looks like this may give smaller alliances and PvP forces a way to fight back. Bombs are just more affordable, more readily available capital insurance, since they basicly make interdiction a thing of the past and kill regular tacklers at the same time. Their damage portions also only endanger sub-capitals - being difficult to deal with for battleships (but just barely shy of instapopping anything) and instant death for anyone else, but negligible by capitals in every serious way. So it's really going to rather dramatically cement capitals as the modus operandi, with yet another efficient way to deal with groups of non-capitals :/ Quote: New pos mods from my take seem to be geared towards making it much harder to initially assault a POS, preventing your 2-4 man dread operations from effectively being able to take on a large tower, this also seems like it may deter much of the pos piracy I see. Being able to take out pos defenses requires a fair force to be effective but how will this affect system sieges when dreads mow down an entire system of pos's defenses leaving them unprotected. Every serious structurebuff is bad, because player versus structure is a) way too biased towards lagging the node out b) really unfun. There is no way anyone can sanely say PoS guns of all things need a buff :/ Quote: Lastly POS Jump Bridges, seems like this may do an amazing amount for server performance removing so many jump que's, this also seems to be the poor man's titan giving small alliances ways to move ships and equipment deep into enemy territory, or for small alliances to completely bypass some of the more painful to defend entrances. Supposedly you'll be requiring Sov. Which limits it mainly (although not entirely) to those with capital superiority in a region. Which would only be half as bad if it weren't the shipclass that effectively rules out of most of the playerbase. Quote: being in an alliance with a fair number of super capitals and seeing directly the benefit of them logistically and tactically, it now appears we may soon be facing an enemy with much better means to effectively counter us without having to spend the gazillion isk to build mother ships and titans. discuss You're on drugs. But it's easy to be naive as all get out when you don't have to make practical plans. If I had to make a prediction, this will be a trainwreck much like the massive capital HP boost + rigs in Kali 1. Another change heralded as a fix by the completely insightless, followed by weeks of pondering and fingerpointing on E-O why things will be controlled by caps just as much if not more.
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.09 15:40:00 - [83] Originally by: Kagura Nikon The new bombs will be a hell for carriers and moms. That diminishes the capital power a bit Except a) you can't drop enough capbombs without blowing them up yourself to make a dent at all b) every physical bomb counters capbombs. And ECM bombs ? Same deal, everybody not in a cap gets screwed - but at least this time, it hurts Dreadnoughts as well. All other capitals have sensorstrength coming out the ears, they won't care much. By the simple design of the mechanic that necessitates that all non-physical bomb have 0% to all physical resists, a single intermittent physical bomb (remember, caps are practically immune to this) renders anything else useless. The only negative impact on capitals is possibly fighters, since physical bombing can be hard to stop and since they have to often travel away from the launching ship they're very likely to get the short end of the stick.
Karina Kurophsky Incognito Inc	Posted - 2007.06.09 17:05:00 - [84] Its funny watching all the whining. A few have specific constructive points but most just whine. EVE isnt going to give you a free ride. The most powerfull alliances in EVE today did not get to were there at without a sick amount of work and EVE addiction. Just like in a free world you get out what you put in. Until your all ready to put out like real men then you should can it and go play WOW were you can cry about some 13 year old sploiting you and how it aint fair. EVE is a game that rewards those willing to take risk and that have the Real world skills in Leadership, organization, and commitment. I say amen to the new changes as it will liven up the POS wars and make people actually have to think before dumping the Le-Blob into system. Adapt or die people, I can imagine some of you dont live your RL that way so all this whining makes sence.
sakana North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.06.09 17:09:00 - [85] Originally by: Vile rat So everybody can set up jump bridge nets to empire and move freighters with no risk. whoopie. It was a bad idea to allow that on titans and it'll be a bad idea here. Well afaik you need Sov, so you couldn't jump to empire. I may be wrong tho, really not sure. If I'm right, alliance -> empire chokepoints are gonna be interesting again possibly... ------------
Slow Joe I can't believe it's not a noob corp	Posted - 2007.06.10 05:38:00 - [86] This doesn't belong in CAOD. It should be moved to Game Development Forum. Originally by: Sochin In this case, we are razing 0.0 of all the useless debris and planting new seedling alliances that will blossom into beautiful flowers of awesomeness.
mamolian M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.06.10 05:53:00 - [87] Alot of these new changes won't bring back skirmish warefare as the number one form of combat.. =/ Seems to me all it will do, will allow the bigger alliances to entrench themselves in space, and make it even more difficult to remove, without the backing of a 400+ man 23 hour force.. -------------------------------
ArcticFox Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.06.10 06:43:00 - [88] Edited by: ArcticFox on 10/06/2007 06:43:33 Originally by: Victor Vision You mean to say I mentioned your alliance by name in this thread? Where? You must be hallucinating Actually, you're right. You said "largest alliance," so you can only have meant Goonswarm. Unless of course you were referring to largest capital fleet, in which case you must have meant RA. Yes, it's a good thing for BoB these huge powers are such good friends with them, because if they were enemies these new features might make it considerably more difficult for BoB to go on the offensive against them. Or were you basing your assumptions on the dev blog that said these would be available only to alliances with B in their name? -------------------------- There is only one +6 sword of WTFPWN in Eve, and only the lag is allowed to equip it.
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.06.10 07:49:00 - [89] Okay, let's get some stuff clear about the new modules, everyone seems to be getting each other confused. Cyno Jammer: Requires "Sovereignty 3", which means you have a POS claiming sov for 5+ weeks in a system (which is fairly easy to do). This is not constellation sovereignty. Once it's up no one can ignite a cyno field in the jammed system (this also blocks the new cyno generator array), however the owner can still bring in cap ships via the jump bridge. Jump Bridge. This also requires "Sovereignty 3" (see above). This means you can't set the things up in NPC 0.0 or low-sec. The array works more like a stargate than anything else; to use it you need to connect 2 bridges together, and it consumes liquid ozone and strontium on use (approximately 2x as much as a Titan jump portal). It's worth noting that these modules must be outside the POS bubble, meaning anyone using them is going to enter and land outside and be vulnerable to attack. It will be possible to build chains for safer routes obviously, but Freighters will still need to enter 0.0 the hard way. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Koronos Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.10 16:49:00 - [90] Originally by: mamolian Alot of these new changes won't bring back skirmish warefare as the number one form of combat.. =/ Seems to me all it will do, will allow the bigger alliances to entrench themselves in space, and make it even more difficult to remove, without the backing of a 400+ man 23 hour force.. That's exactly how I read it. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see how I am, and noone's explained it to me yet



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