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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
CONCORD SWAT
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Posted - 2007.06.13 05:18:00 -
[181]
So, let's recap:
- CCP adds capital-class ships called "Carriers" which are designed to be logistics ships
- CCP's idea of logistics is where you're able to repair and rearm friendlies within range
- The playerbase realizes that these carriers are also very capable for moving things about in relative safety (__NOT__ a problem in and of itself!), which is the REAL definition of logistics
- A large amount of time passes by, in which a significant portion of the playerbase has trained up to use these carriers specifically for the purpose of logistics (both CCP's idea and the REAL definition)
- During the above time, some seemingly unrelated events trigger suspicions of misconduct on CCP's side. Some events are proven true and dealt with while most others are apparently proven false
- CCP adds a change to the method in which items are transported using carriers
- CCP doesn't mention this change anywhere
- A carrier pilot finds this change and complains
- CCP tries to leverage the change as a fix to a problem which there have been absolutely no significant complaints, and wasn't even on the "known issues" list, even though CCP characterizes it as such
- In the meantime, the single alliance which would benefic most from this change says absolutely nothing on the issue, as if they were (at the very least) told not to reply to the issue or as if they (at the worst) already the specifics of the change and had planned for it
Mmhmm. Maybe you do want what's best for the playerbase, CCP. I'll believe it when you stop making changes that have the least affects to the portion of the playerbase that has the most to benefit from the changes.
If this is truly a fix to a long-standing problem, then you need to explain exactly what that long-standing problem is, or rather... was. You need to explain why that problem wasn't on the known issues list. You should tell us why you suddenly decided to fix this long-standing issue when no one has been complaining about it. You need to determine exactly why many carrier pilots are bitching. Misconduct or not, you definitely need to determine why one specific alliance has made no mention at all about the issue, and I do think you know to which alliance I am referring.
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Jerppu
Minmatar Brotherhood of Polar Equation Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.06.13 08:18:00 -
[182]
Originally by: CONCORD SWAT So, let's recap: If this is truly a fix to a long-standing problem, then you need to explain exactly what that long-standing problem is, or rather... was. You need to explain why that problem wasn't on the known issues list. You should tell us why you suddenly decided to fix this long-standing issue when no one has been complaining about it. You need to determine exactly why many carrier pilots are bitching. Misconduct or not, you definitely need to determine why one specific alliance has made no mention at all about the issue, and I do think you know to which alliance I am referring.
Please CCP, do explain and concider the alternative fixes to carriers that has been pointed in this thread.
If you "have to fix" GSC stuff, then do fix small corp hangars and ship maintenance bays by adding 250k m3 to ship maintenance bay and 30k m3 to corp hangar. Otherwise lot of us has spent almost a year valuable time and isk for nothing.
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Agent Stone
Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.06.13 08:32:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Jerppu Please CCP, do explain and concider the alternative fixes to carriers that has been pointed in this thread.
If you "have to fix" GSC stuff, then do fix small corp hangars and ship maintenance bays by adding 250k m3 to ship maintenance bay and 30k m3 to corp hangar. Otherwise lot of us has spent almost a year valuable time and isk for nothing.
/signed
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Deacon Ix
Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.06.13 09:50:00 -
[184]
Logistics are the backbone of the game,
Pls don't hide behind 'a carrier is not intended to carry goods'
if it was intended as a Fighter Carrier call it a Fighter Carrier.
'Carrier in RL is an abriviated form for Aircraft Carrier (hence the apostrophy) even then they are used to transport fuel/supplys for the fleet.
I agree that the carrier in game need to be more combat orientated - pls can you buff the fighters to make it a worth while ship to have
And where is this Capital industrial?
the stick and carrot method is all well and good but I for one am seeing far to much stick and no carrot. This game is going down hill.
Glad I have an alt that is on its way to a Revalation - can't use capital reppers/weapons or a siege module but it will be able to haul - with GSCs too I do belive - and I don't see 'Hauler' or 'carrier' anywhere in the ship name/description
The person who said 'violence never solves anything' has obviously never thrown a Rubix cube at a wall |
Dr FairosMakani
PBA Corporation
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Posted - 2007.06.13 10:29:00 -
[185]
I'm not happy about this, all it does is make the Drone regions more difficult to live in... The logistics are bad enough as it already is! :(
Rabble rabble rabble!
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Tonto Auri
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.06.13 11:10:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Tonto Auri Well, ok, I see one point of view, wich CCP can't see. One major problem with haulers it is not their ability to carry GSC, but that case of incremental bonus from expanders, skills and rigs, without any drawbacks related to carriers.
But it may be solved without nerfing. Just add one attribute to expanders: Let it increase ship size as cargohold capacity. May be not that dramatically, but at half of cargo size? For Bestower with full set of T2 expanders it will be
260*1.1375^4 = 435290.28m3
Still fit in a small carrier, but takes about whole space in it. And no boring issues with "omgwtf why i cant dock if size permits". All clearly understandable and no stupid overwhelming rules.
I mean - "half of cargo capacity bonus", of course. Sorry for misspelling. -- . |
easylad
Smoking Hillbillys
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Posted - 2007.06.13 11:38:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Dr FairosMakani I'm not happy about this, all it does is make the Drone regions more difficult to live in... The logistics are bad enough as it already is! :(
Rabble rabble rabble!
/signed
Rabble rabble rabble
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.06.13 11:46:00 -
[188]
Simple solution: give freighters a short range jump drive and just acknowledge that no one ever wants to move something that expensive with that much stuff manually through 0.0 even more then 2-3 jumps.
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Jeff Anderson
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2007.06.13 12:06:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Deacon Ix And where is this Capital industrial?
It was dumped from Rev II early on in favor of PVP/E stuff.
Sig: Miners supply the ore that the Industrialists use to build the ships you PVP/E with so please think of them as your ship blows up from the enhanced PVP/E in EVE. We know CCP hasn't.
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Ktadaemon
Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.13 12:07:00 -
[190]
3 dev replies in the first 2 pages and then nothing since? If you stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and sing lalalalalala at the top of your voice do you hope that we, your customers will just go away?
This nerf is unreasonable, unfair and unnecessary. remove it from Rev2 now.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.13 13:13:00 -
[191]
Edited by: Eleana Tomelac on 13/06/2007 13:12:58
Originally by: Ktadaemon 3 dev replies in the first 2 pages and then nothing since?
This nerf is unreasonable, unfair and unnecessary. remove it from Rev2 now.
I'll try to point why the issue has not been explained yet :
Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer Assembled containers and courier packages are the only restricted items that cannot be in an assembled ship inside a ship maintenance bay/array, in order to prevent exploits.
You see the word exploit? If this is explained right now, it's revealing how to make an exploit BEFORE the patch goes to TQ. I would be stupid, either people would try to use it or people would just look at it, anyway, it would end in tons of people banned...
But, I hope we get the explanation when the rev 2 patch goes on TQ.
Oh, and it's not a nerf by design, it's a bug/exploit fix. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Happy owner of a Vexor Navy Issue and few ishkurs. The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon ! |
Deacon Ix
Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.06.13 13:26:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Jeff Anderson
Originally by: Deacon Ix And where is this Capital industrial?
It was dumped from Rev II early on in favor of PVP/E stuff.
as always
love the sig quote
The person who said 'violence never solves anything' has obviously never thrown a Rubix cube at a wall |
Berand
Shadow Of The Light R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.13 14:12:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Berand on 13/06/2007 14:12:39 Edited by: Berand on 13/06/2007 14:11:41
I've gotta say, I think this is a horrible change to make, unless there's some compensation in another area, such as increasing carrier cargo holds or adding a jump-drive capable logistics ship. I've already posted in this thread to that extent.
But seriously guys, the tin-foil-hattery is ridiculous. FFS, CCP could start offering free orange juice in Jita 4-4, and people would cry that they're doing it because Blacklight f***ing loves citrus fruits.
You completely trivialize the point here by making a conspiracy case out of this. It'll be just as inconvenient for BoB as it will for the rest of us, if CCP goes through with it. But even if you don't believe that, just stick to the actual important argument anyway, namely that adding even more tedium to 0.0 logistics in exchange for no gain at all sucks. It'll be better for all of us.
Thanks
Berand
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clone 1
Caldari The Short Bus Squad The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2007.06.13 14:21:00 -
[194]
Oveur said once, that the day people don't care and don't post on the forums is a sad day for CCP.
Well, with the 'great' discussion going on with respect to Amarr Boost in the EVE Information Portal, and the 2 replies we got here I formally don't care anymore.
Do what you want CCP Dev Team, I dont care anymore.
Always Moaning About Race Retardations |
Moncton
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Posted - 2007.06.13 15:44:00 -
[195]
Originally by: clone 1 Oveur said once, that the day people don't care and don't post on the forums is a sad day for CCP.
Well, with the 'great' discussion going on with respect to Amarr Boost in the EVE Information Portal, and the 2 replies we got here I formally don't care anymore.
Do what you want CCP Dev Team, I dont care anymore.
Well, I am going to bump this thread every day so the devs can't help but see this thread at the top of their forums.
I recommend others do the same so this issue doesn't die.
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Tonto Auri
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.06.13 17:26:00 -
[196]
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 13/06/2007 17:28:56
Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Edited by: Eleana Tomelac on 13/06/2007 13:12:58
Originally by: Ktadaemon 3 dev replies in the first 2 pages and then nothing since?
This nerf is unreasonable, unfair and unnecessary. remove it from Rev2 now.
I'll try to point why the issue has not been explained yet :
Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer Assembled containers and courier packages are the only restricted items that cannot be in an assembled ship inside a ship maintenance bay/array, in order to prevent exploits.
You see the word exploit? If this is explained right now, it's revealing how to make an exploit BEFORE the patch goes to TQ. I would be stupid, either people would try to use it or people would just look at it, anyway, it would end in tons of people banned...
But, I hope we get the explanation when the rev 2 patch goes on TQ.
Oh, and it's not a nerf by design, it's a bug/exploit fix.
It is nerf by meaning. And there are only one exploit, but that exploit is a core of EVE calculations. In normal game You'll never get hauler with 3k base cargo hauling 12635.20k. Normal formula is not 3 000*(1.275^5)*(1+0.05*5) = 12 635.20 but 3 000*(1+0.275*5+0.05*5) = 7 875.00
See the difference? All calculations done by base cargo capacity.
But as that "feature" is core of EVE, there (in haulers hauling stuff) is no exploit at all, it just words to make people silent. -- . |
Damned Force
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Posted - 2007.06.13 17:42:00 -
[197]
My main char trained last 4-5 months for carrier to help my corp in deep 0.0 region, in drone region. We dont have so easy as other regions, because we nned to sell the alloys for the reward and for the money. So because thos major nerf was the training almost not worth. In this time i could train something funny, like command ships or other ships which makes fun. WANT REFUNDATION!!!! Money, Isk, Time!!!
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Lars Erlkonig
Caldari GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.13 18:03:00 -
[198]
I humbly ask CCP to reconsider this "nerf." Smaller alliances/corps lacking Titans and Sov claims needed for jump bridges from empire to their home turf have a manifest need for the extra hauling capacity.
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Axhind
Caldari Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.06.13 18:27:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Damned Force My main char trained last 4-5 months for carrier to help my corp in deep 0.0 region, in drone region. We dont have so easy as other regions, because we nned to sell the alloys for the reward and for the money. So because thos major nerf was the training almost not worth. In this time i could train something funny, like command ships or other ships which makes fun. WANT REFUNDATION!!!! Money, Isk, Time!!!
Same here. I'm just a month or two away from it (depending if it's only for logistics or for fighting too). Feels real fun to have spent last 4-5 months training skills and grinding ****ty ISK in order to finally get a nerfed carrier and be told to use a Titan or jump POS. If we had all that we would be jumping freighters and nobody would complain about Carrier nerf.
PS: anyone selling a titan for about 800mil? (Some of us are not as reach as old alliances).
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Yuki Nagato
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.13 18:43:00 -
[200]
Bumping. Are CCP going to respond to any of this stuff? The logistics of this game are a chore enough already, making it worse will just lead to burnout.
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Druadan
Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.06.13 19:00:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Axhind
Originally by: Damned Force My main char trained last 4-5 months for carrier to help my corp in deep 0.0 region, in drone region. We dont have so easy as other regions, because we nned to sell the alloys for the reward and for the money. So because thos major nerf was the training almost not worth. In this time i could train something funny, like command ships or other ships which makes fun. WANT REFUNDATION!!!! Money, Isk, Time!!!
Same here. I'm just a month or two away from it (depending if it's only for logistics or for fighting too). Feels real fun to have spent last 4-5 months training skills and grinding ****ty ISK in order to finally get a nerfed carrier and be told to use a Titan or jump POS. If we had all that we would be jumping freighters and nobody would complain about Carrier nerf.
PS: anyone selling a titan for about 800mil? (Some of us are not as reach as old alliances).
You can add me to that list. Almost into my carrier and it's going to get nerfed. Very very ******* fed up of CCP forcing tedium upon us. The bull**** excuse they are giving for this nerf is just laughable, and I would be laughing my arse off at it if it weren't for a certain group of male siblings, operating out of Delve, laughing at the rest of 0.0 because they're not going to be affected by this ridiculous nerf. Fed up of this game getting less and less fun with each patch, and wanting to lay down my subscription more and more and play something else. __________________________________________________
"A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire |
Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.13 19:27:00 -
[202]
Still awaiting a reasonable response for this. Hell, maybe we should just tell goons that this is all BoB's fault, and get them to do another threadnaught. It seems to be the only way to get a response these days.
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Linkel
Minmatar PBA Corporation The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.06.13 19:54:00 -
[203]
Not impressed CCP, your reasons are flawed if any and why do you guys continue to make the Drone Regions so flawed? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Michael McNeil
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Posted - 2007.06.13 20:01:00 -
[204]
I do not believe that ccp will respawn any farther to this,
1) if they do not lesson to us, its because they wont change and feel that they have answered the questions and we just dont like what htye have said.
2)if they do lesson to us, they may not have a scripted respawns to our demands.
either way, from what ive seen of the world in general the past few years, no one really lessons to thows whom they must answer to, unless you beat them with the obedeance stick... given this is a game, the only way to use this stick would be to quit the game. unfortently many of those whom have made this threat either 1) do not quit, or 2) quit for a month or two just long enough to not lose the charactor. then they return their by ccp knows that their threat is meaningless.
As for goons thread attack someone mentented, that is not a legal means of getting attention and rightfuly requiers in my view your banishment from the game and servers, (personly i feel this should apply to all of your accounts traced to your IP should be banned as well, not only the account which was used.)
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Damned Force
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Posted - 2007.06.13 20:18:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Michael McNeil I do not believe that ccp will respawn any farther to this,
1) if they do not lesson to us, its because they wont change and feel that they have answered the questions and we just dont like what htye have said.
2)if they do lesson to us, they may not have a scripted respawns to our demands.
either way, from what ive seen of the world in general the past few years, no one really lessons to thows whom they must answer to, unless you beat them with the obedeance stick... given this is a game, the only way to use this stick would be to quit the game. unfortently many of those whom have made this threat either 1) do not quit, or 2) quit for a month or two just long enough to not lose the charactor. then they return their by ccp knows that their threat is meaningless.
As for goons thread attack someone mentented, that is not a legal means of getting attention and rightfuly requiers in my view your banishment from the game and servers, (personly i feel this should apply to all of your accounts traced to your IP should be banned as well, not only the account which was used.)
U right. But the no answer just show us that they dont have any good reasn for this change and they simply need time to think out something. THEY FEAR US. But such ignorance with the costumers... its shame they able to do this. If we would have such customer support we could close in a week. SHAME!!!!!!
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Popsikle
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.13 23:52:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Elmicker Still awaiting a reasonable response for this. Hell, maybe we should just tell goons that this is all BoB's fault, and get them to do another threadnaught. It seems to be the only way to get a response these days.
No threatnaughts please, but BUMP to the top I will!
__________________________________________
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Ithakus
Gallente Red Horizon Inc Red Horizon
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Posted - 2007.06.14 00:04:00 -
[207]
If CCP would simply say "We may have acted too quickly. We will look into this further." it will help to calm some nerves.
As a carrier pilot who has hauled a lot of stuff for our corp and alliance, it's a nightmare thinking of transporting everyone's things without cans.
I think that using a carrier for moving supplies in and out of 0.0 from empire is a great use for the ship. The thing that makes me scratch my head is how the hell do GSC's hold 3900m3? It's only a 3000m3 container!
If they could only apply the magic that allows 3900m3 worth of stuff to fit into 3000m3 of space to lag, it'd be wonderful.
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sableye
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.14 00:11:00 -
[208]
Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer The code does not support a container within a container within a container. Placing GSC's inside industrials inside carrier ship maintenance bays was using a loophole, which was fixed. This was both a programming and a game design decision.
hmm my ship maintence bay is'nt a container its closerto my ship bay in station if anything.
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Mobius
Amarr The Avalon Foundation
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Posted - 2007.06.14 00:27:00 -
[209]
so no gsc's in haulers inside carriers ok then bump our corporate hangars to 30,000m3 so we can atleast get some lost space back in return
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Kage Toshimado
54th Knights Templar O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.14 00:42:00 -
[210]
This certainly puts a raincloud over my parade. I don't like this one bit either!
Don't do this, I really don't have the time or energy to waste sorting out all the items I am to haul back and forth from the Drone Regions.
Either give the Drones bounties or find a way for us to be able to seperate corp mates goods please.
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