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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Sabian Treehugger Minmatar 54th Knights Templar O X I D E	Posted - 2007.07.17 18:29:00 - [421] fix this pls /signed
Velvet69 eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.18 03:37:00 - [422] Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer The code does not support a container within a container within a container. Placing GSC's inside industrials inside carrier ship maintenance bays was using a loophole, which was fixed. This was both a programming and a game design decision. Have you ever played EvE? o/ Velve IXC Velvet69 Proud Member of 'The House of Prawn'
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.19 12:17:00 - [423] To the first page we go.
Torshin Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2007.07.19 13:23:00 - [424] Originally by: Velvet69 Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer The code does not support a container within a container within a container. Placing GSC's inside industrials inside carrier ship maintenance bays was using a loophole, which was fixed. This was both a programming and a game design decision. Have you ever played EvE? o/ Velve ya they play all the time remember? thats why we can use heat and bombs now. ------------------------------------------- Backdoor Bandit - Unofficial leader of the new 'Post with your main or STFU' campaign. I'm Shinra and I'm the champion of Eve.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.19 17:59:00 - [425] Originally by: Torshin Originally by: Velvet69 Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer The code does not support a container within a container within a container. Placing GSC's inside industrials inside carrier ship maintenance bays was using a loophole, which was fixed. This was both a programming and a game design decision. Have you ever played EvE? o/ Velve ya they play all the time remember? thats why we can use heat and bombs now. Not sure what your point is exactly. Your just refrencing more broken content. There is enough bomb's suck threads out there to prove it too.
Ignition SemperFi The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.21 21:12:00 - [426] this shouldnt of fallen off the first page. CCP might forget they screwed the pooch on this one ARROW CAP SHIPS FOR SALE We Promise you wont be disappointed!
Salia Deluri	Posted - 2007.07.21 22:47:00 - [427] bump not on first page. I understand your delima witht he exploit. Just make the game check the skills of the pilot so that if you can;t fly the ship you can;t put anything in the Containers in it.
Bubble Jet	Posted - 2007.07.22 04:11:00 - [428] Yet another bump. Sorry, a "Heat Dissipation Array" shouldn't count as a container. Extracting POSes are completely unreasonable, now.
Jack Toad Federal Space Academy Red Army Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 10:57:00 - [429] Still waiting for comments. Bump.
Bon Hedus Amarr O.E.C Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.07.23 11:17:00 - [430] Edited by: Bon Hedus on 23/07/2007 11:50:42 Edited by: Bon Hedus on 23/07/2007 11:21:31 Also to reiterate... your normal cargo bay is used to carry Jumpfuel. That doesn't leave very much space for anything else... how about a Corporate Hangar bay increase to make up for lost cargo space, and something like a Standard Container, similar to what is used in Freighters so devisions of cargo can be made. Or even better, give us a jump capable freighter that also allows gate travel. Sort of a Hybrid ship. 150k m3 cargo cost around 1.5 billion fairly high armor and resists 1/1/1 slot space (high being a utility slot, no guns or missiles) no cargo expanders jump drive can scoop and deploy POS Cannot scoop jet cans (sorry miners) required: Advanced spaceship Command V Transport Ships V Capital Ships II Racial Freighter IV edit to change around some ideas after some thought -------------------------------------- Heavy Lag Spike II belonging to EvE Cluster Node #0815 hits your Connection, wrecking your latency to 998ms

GonzoWCS The Shadow Order	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:43:00 - [431] Fix This <signed>
Ssoraszh Tzarszh Minmatar Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks	Posted - 2007.07.24 12:33:00 - [432] Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: Torshin Originally by: Velvet69 Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer .... ... ... Not sure what your point is exactly. Your just refrencing more broken content. There is enough bomb's suck threads out there to prove it too. Sure thing, and four people reposting the same crap every other day makes it a majority yessir. Bla bla broken content. I'm not arguing that it would be handy to have some sort of method of sorting stuff out, but i have coped withoud the can's and you will have to do the same.
joahn	Posted - 2007.07.24 14:38:00 - [433] Well just for the record for everybody that has been using a RL carrier in there arguments. I have family that serves/served on carriers for the US navy. A super carrier Has the capibility of my self sustaining for 4 months on open sea before needed to port for resupply and the smaller varients are able to sustain for 2-3months depending on what mission they are on. Also the size of these monsters on the open water is like looking at a floating city. They have to be able to sustain themselves for a very long period of time which meand that they have to carry supplies for the crew as well and ammo and fuel for all the fighters that it carries. The carriers of today are basically HUGE cargoships with armor and fighters in all regard for front line battle they need to be part of a fleet and are usually not on the front line but a few knots away from the actual fight with a couple of escorts. Now that being said the Dev's by "fixing" gsc's have actually nerfed what a carrier in terms of meaning and use. A RL carrier gets shipments of what ever via crates not a pile of bullets and bombs. plus there are ammo hold, fuel hold, store holds(yes there is a PX onboard this monster of a ship), and a carrier does not need to carry fuel for itself since its primary engines are run by the reactor and battery cells. so the excuse of RL carriers are not used for hualing is inacurate and just plain wrong. In all honesty where i live we get super frieghters and carriers porting all the time. and a carrier is larger in all ways to a super frieghter. Length width and height. the only restrition that a carrier has is the amount of crew quaters and fighter storage. IMHO CCP just killed one primary us of carriers. This "Fix" was uncalled for and hampers almost every 0.0 alliance to a certain regard. There need to be either an introduction of a new transport class ship with a decnt m3 count that can use jump drives, or they need to create a way to make the carrier usefull again cause at this time most 0.0 alliances are feeling this pain. There are not to many alliances that have titans so being able to use jump bridges is going to not be a real option for them. and when it comes the freighter runs to empire that is going to be a logistical nightmare in its own right. Since this game is played by people that live in all diferent areas of the world it will be hard to get the number of people on and in places needed to move a freighter especially if you are in a deep area of 0.0 Ie. the new drone regions. it take out 40 jump for my crew to make it to empire in and another 40 back and not everybody can be on that long to babysit the frieghter. And for the people that are going to say "well RL carriers cant hold ships and such." this statement is not true during WWII the carriers had the ability of housing the boats that helped take Omaha beach and the Sherman tanks that where brought on land.
Deacon Ix Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.07.24 15:13:00 - [434] Originally by: joahn Well just for the record for everybody that has been using a RL carrier in there arguments. I have family that serves/served on carriers for the US navy. A super carrier Has the capibility of my self sustaining for 4 months on open sea before needed to port for resupply and the smaller varients are able to sustain for 2-3months depending on what mission they are on. Also the size of these monsters on the open water is like looking at a floating city. They have to be able to sustain themselves for a very long period of time which meand that they have to carry supplies for the crew as well and ammo and fuel for all the fighters that it carries. The carriers of today are basically HUGE cargoships with armor and fighters in all regard for front line battle they need to be part of a fleet and are usually not on the front line but a few knots away from the actual fight with a couple of escorts. Now that being said the Dev's by "fixing" gsc's have actually nerfed what a carrier in terms of meaning and use. A RL carrier gets shipments of what ever via crates not a pile of bullets and bombs. plus there are ammo hold, fuel hold, store holds(yes there is a PX onboard this monster of a ship), and a carrier does not need to carry fuel for itself since its primary engines are run by the reactor and battery cells. so the excuse of RL carriers are not used for hualing is inacurate and just plain wrong. In all honesty where i live we get super frieghters and carriers porting all the time. and a carrier is larger in all ways to a super frieghter. Length width and height. the only restrition that a carrier has is the amount of crew quaters and fighter storage. IMHO CCP just killed one primary us of carriers. This "Fix" was uncalled for and hampers almost every 0.0 alliance to a certain regard. There need to be either an introduction of a new transport class ship with a decnt m3 count that can use jump drives, or they need to create a way to make the carrier usefull again cause at this time most 0.0 alliances are feeling this pain. There are not to many alliances that have titans so being able to use jump bridges is going to not be a real option for them. and when it comes the freighter runs to empire that is going to be a logistical nightmare in its own right. Since this game is played by people that live in all diferent areas of the world it will be hard to get the number of people on and in places needed to move a freighter especially if you are in a deep area of 0.0 Ie. the new drone regions. it take out 40 jump for my crew to make it to empire in and another 40 back and not everybody can be on that long to babysit the frieghter. And for the people that are going to say "well RL carriers cant hold ships and such." this statement is not true during WWII the carriers had the ability of housing the boats that helped take Omaha beach and the Sherman tanks that where brought on land. Nice post /signed (again) Originally by: Steini OFSI The most efficient way to get a dev response is to have the word beer somewhere in your thread.
batmoth Amarr Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.24 16:51:00 - [435] Edited by: batmoth on 24/07/2007 16:55:09 /signed I agree with you joahn. the situation is bad. The devs really should look at this again and come up with a ability to orginize the cargo that we are carrying. also it would help if they start thinking about adding a cargo ship with jump capability. Cause of right now for the deep 0.0 pilots carriers are a must to move goods be it mods for ships or fuel for towers. drone regions are another nightmare when it comes to making isk also. Trying to move freighters that deep are very painful and extremely risky endevour.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.24 20:32:00 - [436] while we're at it... gargantuan secure contis plz: 7.500m¦ -> 10.000m¦ thx - putting the gist back into logistics
batmoth Amarr Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.24 20:48:00 - [437] Originally by: Roemy Schneider while we're at it... gargantuan secure contis plz: 7.500m¦ -> 10.000m¦ thx HAHA your so funny /sacrcasim off
Jack Toad Federal Space Academy Red Army Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.25 08:42:00 - [438] Back to page 1. Bump
Koti Resci	Posted - 2007.07.25 09:45:00 - [439] CCP, You stated that this "fix" was to prevent a possible exploit. This "fix" has been around for a month and a half, and yet you still have yet to detail exactly what exploit was being or could have been abused. As has been stated here by countless individuals (and moreso by those whom have not bothered to tell you their feelings), putting items inside of a cargo container is not an exploit. Putting that cargo container into a ship is not an exploit. Putting that ship into a carrier is not an exploit. So surely combining those three scenarios is not an exploit! Besides the fact that it's a simple matter of logic, it was most certainly working without any issues or complaints before you decided to put in this 'fix'. I trust that the real exploit has been fixed for long enough for investigations to have come to fruition to result in punishments. I trust that you're going to detail to us exactly why you've sent a lot of capital pilots reeling and haven't even given them the courtesy of a refund. I trust you're going to tell us why we can use industrials inside of carriers to hold a starbase under construction, but cannot do the same for a starbase under deconstuction. I trust you, CCP, to fix this fix. Surely, CCP, you're not going to betray my trust? Again?
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.25 15:43:00 - [440] People just need to start using dreads to move stuff.. 1 dread with cargo expanders on all low slots have avery good capability and can carry GSCs If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

batmoth Amarr Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.25 21:14:00 - [441] the problem is. that if we do start using dreadnaughts most likely they will find a way to nerf them as well. CCP needs to find a way of making teh carrier useful again, and triage is not the answer.
Virtuozzo IVC Consortium INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.26 11:59:00 - [442] Now there's the angle CCP sees as providing the solution for the problems arising from the carrier "fix". Jump Bridges. Nice idea, for controlled space, but looking at the posts in this thread I don't think many folks can agree with that perception. Virtuozzo Last words of a Caldari general: "Pull the Ravens back! Full retreat! they've got frigates!" snip Inappropriate. -Elmo Pug
batmoth Amarr Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.26 12:16:00 - [443] Originally by: Virtuozzo Now there's the angle CCP sees as providing the solution for the problems arising from the carrier "fix". Jump Bridges. Nice idea, for controlled space, but looking at the posts in this thread I don't think many folks can agree with that perception. now here is the problem with that so called "resolution" that the dev quoted. Deep 0.0 alliances are not going to be able to set these up 1 jump from empire. reason is casue some one else has sovernty there ie. drone regions. lets say i wanted to set a jump bridge from my territory to empire, I would have to claim quite a few systems not in my region. such as frege space and possibly invictus space which would make a mess of things. so Once again the devs are still not giving a good enough answer to why they did this to the carriers.
Virtuozzo IVC Consortium INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.26 13:13:00 - [444] Originally by: batmoth now here is the problem with that so called "resolution" that the dev quoted. Deep 0.0 alliances are not going to be able to set these up 1 jump from empire. reason is casue some one else has sovernty there ie. drone regions. lets say i wanted to set a jump bridge from my territory to empire, I would have to claim quite a few systems not in my region. such as frege space and possibly invictus space which would make a mess of things. so Once again the devs are still not giving a good enough answer to why they did this to the carriers. Well it is part of it. Jump Bridges are great for controlled space. But that is it. Anything above that and you're looking either at creating huge super alliance organisations (boring, detrimental, also in conflict with CCP's old concept of inter regional or even constellation specific pew pew) or infrastructural deployments for warfare which takes weeks to effectuate (hardly compatible with how the game is shall we say .. ). Jump Bridges are a railroad network. Great if you control a vast amount of space to move your troops from one end to the next. Great to move troops from an entry point to a destination at a frontline IN or at the edge of controlled space. But, they're not for logistics. First of all it is dreadfully easy to take out such an infrastructure, and who in his or her right mind puts all his money on one horse (donkey maybe, in this case :P). Secondly it's only feasible within controlled space, not outside, making it a defensive mechanism in that controlled space .. which is not a logistical attribute for large volumes of goods which by default come from outside of controlled space anyway. So Jump Bridges are lovely, but in no way or form an answer to the logistical challenge with this carrier "fix". No matter how you turn it, it is one of the most extreme examples in the past few years of how a small change can turn eve into a job for countless pilots. I know, adaptation is key. In older times everyone with a gun had an alt with an indy to move stuff around, these days it is pretty much obligatory to have a carrier alt. Still it is not a balanced picture, as with the coming of Revelations 2 the need for volumes of resources has gone through the roof, most notably with the sovereignty level specific infrastructures. To cut it short: CCP thought the solution was to be found in game. Unfortunately concepts are not practice proof. Usefulness and use alike depend on in game trends, practices and most importantly on the divide between perception from the outside and the effective situation on the inside. I think Jump Bridges are lovely, and a great tool at home, but the intended scope for them fails, and hard. Carriers, or any jump bridge enabled ship (and obviously Titans with their jump portals) are the only practical and feasible solutions on keeping the ever increasing logistics lines open - if not for the failure of Jump Bridges in practical situations, then for their flexibility and being able to use it in offensive situations which comprise imo the bulk of warfare in EVE. We really need either a reversal, or a new dedicated module for changing shipping capacity, or a new jump drive enabled ship type. Virtuozzo Last words of a Caldari general: "Pull the Ravens back! Full retreat! they've got frigates!" snip Inappropriate. -Elmo Pug
DaMaster Architect SOTI Inc. FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.26 17:00:00 - [445] It really should be clear that there should be a ship that can jump, and is made for hauling. Come on CCP, you know we want this for so long! As long as you don't give us a tool that can jump and is made for hauling, we will use every ship we can that can jump and has a big enough cargohold. Until you nerfed the crap out of everything. Nerfing is bad, mkay? At least I may hope that the ORE capital ship is suited for this purpose.
Ricky1989 Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:12:00 - [446] Okay so what, they nerfed carriers by restricting GSC in hauler cargoholds. Its here to stay so get over it.
batmoth Amarr Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:17:00 - [447] Originally by: Ricky1989 Okay so what, they nerfed carriers by restricting GSC in hauler cargoholds. Its here to stay so get over it. Gee it must be pretty hard for you to move things to your area of 0.0 ooh wait where are you guys again i cant seem to find you on the sovernty map?
Virtuozzo IVC Consortium INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.26 20:48:00 - [448] Here's a bit of insight for those who are not fully in touch with how CCP is pretty much providing the content in regards to sovereignty. POS are terribly easy to engage, target cycling of defences and lock times are a joke for the unforeseeable future. Something which has the nice consequences of making a POS now an arena for all ship types, but the bad consequence of bringing the blob. But that's a seperate topic. With POS being so vulnerable to becoming engagement zones, it is a must to tilt the balance of defence vs use implementation of a POS towards the defence angle. Beyond the human resources aspect of having several 4-5 man teams with good skill level in Starbase Defence management, you need to have the weaponry. Now look at the various cpu and more so grid requirements of the new infrastructural pos structures: cyno generator, cyno jammer, jump bridge. I'm sorry, but unless you're suicidal, you will have to implement for backup towers with such structure placement locations, as well as spreading the structure types out over several towers on a per type basis. So, with the logistical nerf through this carrier "fix", cutting hard into the capacity subscribers have for logistics without making the game a job - no matter how much teamwork you use (PVE sucks btw, EVE is about people, not structures), and with the post Revelations 2 increase in numbers of POS to run, in redundancy even, here is yet another argument for an incredibly speedy solution. 1. You've decreased available capacity for logistics total. 2. You've increased required volume of logistics by a severely high factor. Mismatch. EVE = PVP. We all get the point of POS, in the light of the ping pong of old times, and in the light of industry. But it is going overboard now. The above is jsut for the defensive point of view, and not even for a conquest view, where it gets even more interesting. I can't put it any other way: mismatch. Don't make EVE a job, or just PVE. Virtuozzo Last words of a Caldari general: "Pull the Ravens back! Full retreat! they've got frigates!" snip Inappropriate. -Elmo Pug
Develon Hitaki	Posted - 2007.07.27 18:19:00 - [449] bump to page 1
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.27 20:19:00 - [450] I'm willing to bet that CCP has this topic on their ignore list, because there isn't any reason why this topic has reached 16 pages and been on the front page of this forum without a dev response to our suggestions, complaints and questions. Oh well. Here's hoping we get some kind of jump-capable logistics ship (as in moving things, not healing things).



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