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Umbriele
Gallente
Natural Inventions
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Posted - 2007.06.21 10:40:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Nish'a
Am I the only person who doesnt like this change?
So far it seems like everyone is against my opinion.
Yes.
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Pinpisa Jormao
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Posted - 2007.06.21 10:49:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Pinpisa Jormao on 21/06/2007 10:49:09
Rapier + stiletto with 2 sensor boosters + smartbombing BS for frig poppage.
So you need a bit of team work or multiboxing but you should catch pretty much anything except a vaga or travel fitted ship. Also remote sensor boosters + rigs can be useful if you don't have inty.
If you can't, well you're just too slow. 
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Pinpisa Jormao
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Posted - 2007.06.21 10:53:00 -
[123]
One other thing, I would certainly not mind if the autopilot atleast utilized the mwd/ab if installed if it can't be made to WTZ. Rumour is though that a macro autopilot does WTZ so maybe CCP should add that to regular players too to even the field.
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Milton Keynes
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Posted - 2007.06.21 10:54:00 -
[124]
OMFG - Page 5 already! Get a clue already people -> DON'T FEED THE TROLLS
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Araxmas
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
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Posted - 2007.06.21 11:07:00 -
[125]
De Ja vu
anywho I have been ganked while using wtz TO a gate. They smartbombed my inty 
and frankly all you need to do is just camp the other side of the gate..not to mention that pretty much EVERYONE has insta bookmarks anyway, only people that didn't were new people which tbh is not really a good gatecamping kill now is it.
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Robbie Rotten left me |
Pinpisa Jormao
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Posted - 2007.06.21 11:16:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Pinpisa Jormao on 21/06/2007 11:15:51
Here's how we get rid of gates without breaking the game and allow more freedom:
1. Remove all gates
2. Create new Capital ship module that allows creation of a warp tunnel singularity "beacon" that feeds of the star. Attempt to create another one will destabilize itself and disappear.
3. All ships have limited warp/jump range so they must travel between stars nearby instead of long distances without risk.
4. Activation of the warp tunnel will take longer the bigger mass your ship is.
5. Tunnels create subspace vortex that can be detected -> ships warping between stars are visible on the map. 
4. Camp the beacon/singularity point or intercept ships by looking at map and profit
Now I'm sorry I must go to create this EVE killer game, not like that was the only good idea I have for it.
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Milton Keynes
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.06.21 11:23:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Pinpisa Jormao
Edited by: Pinpisa Jormao on 21/06/2007 11:16:38
Here's how we get rid of gates without breaking the game and allow more freedom:
...Stuff..
Now I'm sorry I must go to create this EVE killer game, not like that was the only good idea I have for it.
That actually sounds VERY cool and is how I would have preferred EvE to have developed rather than having all these stupid gates.
I wonder if people realise that warping to/from and jumping through gates takes up a SIGNIFICANT fraction of their time ingame?
Not to mention that all combat becomes gate based (especially in 0.0) - unless you are lucky enough to probe out someone's safespot.
So much for epic battles BETWEEN the planets...
Ah well.EvE is what it is and I still love playing it. But please do make a game that works as you say - it would be a dream come true! 
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Terminus adacai
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.21 11:29:00 -
[128]
Only folks that hated this change were pirates. seems to be a lot fewer of em too...
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
barvo
7th Space Cavalry
Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2007.06.21 12:38:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Erim Solfara
I'd like to point out to you lot that 'faster travel' isn't neccessarily a good thing, the idea of having a 15km run to a gate restricted fleet and large ship travel times, it made the whole world bigger, made people stay and defend their own regions, a mass exodus or invasion was alot more of a feat to organise, and that's how it should be.
A battleship raiding party shouldn't be able to hope across a region or 2, engage, and run away home in an afternoon.
It just negates the whole concept of space as being this really REALLY big thing.
But the point is, if the FC had a set of instas, the whole fleet could do this anyway, with gang-warp.
We seem to have this whole rose-tinted idea of what life was before WTZ. Granted I'm only 14 months or some into the game, but I remember pre-WTZ and believe me, the first thing any decent corporation would do once a new recruit was trusted would be to get them to upload all the corp bookmarks.
Originally by: Anehra
1) It was a hell of a lot less bubblcamps back then. If you wanted to defend 0.0 you had intel channels and could usually catch them between gates.
-a) thus less people wasting valuable game time doing nothing.
-b) thus roaming gang and small gang pvp being alot more viable.
-c) thus alot better accibility to the game for casual gamers.
Interesting. I think you're forgetting the fact that you caught them mainly because you had bookmarks for "your" regions and they didn't, hence they were slowboating and you weren't.
But that raises an interesting point. Flame away, but:
Given the changes to sovereignty, what if having sovereignty over a region/constellation/system allowed you to WTZ to any of the warpable objects in that system, but not having sovereignty didn't?
I'm not saying I particularly like the idea, just throwing it out there.
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ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.06.21 12:42:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Nish'a
the issue was bookmarks ???
bms being removed is fine... but what exactly has that to do with warp to zero, for EVERY system, station gate .... this is ******** imo
so why did they introduce warp to zero if oveur was so against it, or do I remember something wrong here?
Nish'a
Everyone already *had* warp-to-zero.
It was called 30,000 instaBMs
i still have mine, and if i ever get bored i fly to Jita and sit on a gate copying them repeatedly.
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.06.21 12:45:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Elmicker
Its given roaming gangs the ability to dodge bubbles just about anywhere (short of large/dictor), and given roaming gangs the ability to cross huge swathes of space without being restricted by their ships' speeds or their sets of bookmarks. The only place its killed is lowsec, which no one used anyway.
It just put the camp on the other side of the gate. That, and you'll need a crew to gank someone coming through - no solo snipers anymore.
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"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Nish'a
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.21 12:54:00 -
[132]
Originally by: barvo
Given the changes to sovereignty, what if having sovereignty over a region/constellation/system allowed you to WTZ to any of the warpable objects in that system, but not having sovereignty didn't?
Quote:
nice thoughts, quite interesting idea!
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Supreme Biovizier
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:02:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Nish'a
However: warp to zero  
2005 called. They want their flamebait back.
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Fenren
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:18:00 -
[134]
Originally by: petergriffen
You're beginning to remind me of all of the old Beta CS players who refuse to play 1.6/source because the changes didn't suit the way they wanted to play...
HAHA!! thats me!
or at least almoust me... I quit playing when they released beta 4...
but at least i didnt whine about it on the forums a year after the release
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Hello!
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Billy Sastard
Amarr
Life. Universe. Everything.
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:47:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Billy Sastard on 21/06/2007 13:47:22
Personally, I think that CCP's decision to remplace instant BM's with WTZ stemmed from the huge number of people that threatened to quit if instant BM's were removed and nothing put in to replace it. It is the almighty bottom line which drives companys. The removal of the billions of lag inducing instant bookmarks was something that needed to be done, and to avoid losing subscriptions, CCP made a decision that kept the majority of players happy. From the initial anouncement that WTZ was staying in game, the number of people who did not like it was greatly outnumbered by the people who did. CCP does not make loads of cash by making decisions that make the minority happy while alienating the majority, if they are going to alienate anyone, it will be the minority, so that they lose less paying customers when the people who dont like the change leave.
I hope that made sense... I makes sense to me. Personally I don't really mind WTZ, as it really just emulates the way I was playing before with the use of instant BM's, so no big change there.
P.S. - BTW, WTZ was added in november of last year with Revelations I, that is about 7 months ago, not 18 
-=^=-
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:01:00 -
[136]
the OP seems to be asking why WTZ was implemented instead of "remove gate bookmarks and forbid their creation".
well I'll try to explain that instead of pointing the obvious 100th time.
you see this game is made for players who play it.
sure ideologically it's better to just remove and forbid. however at the time this was done, most players in eve (except for very new players) had all the "insta bookmarks" they needed, either making them themselves or buying through escrow packages. Even the first issue of official EVE E-ON magazine had entire article about how to create instas.
So you see, as the game evolves certain things that wasn't "fixed" in the right time (in this case - right after a few clever people created some first instas, which I guess have happened in first few days after game release), become new game features. You can't just nerf them, this would screw too much players. Sure there was a number of protesters, but the MAJORITY of player base got very very used for instas, both carebears and pvpers. This means basically that instas have became the inherent part of the game. so by that time, CCP had only one option to get rid of BM copy induced lag - to introduce WTZ. Other solution would be either too late in the existing situation or too complex.
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Mr Cleann
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:14:00 -
[137]
I think the warp to zero idea came shortly after someone came out with the anti warp generators that are capable of completly encompassing a stargate out to 45 km. To help ballance things out a little. I think someone thought that the anti-warp generators were a bit one sided. lol.
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Nish'a
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.21 16:15:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Billy Sastard
Personally, I think that CCP's decision to remplace instant BM's with WTZ stemmed from the huge number of people that threatened to quit if instant BM's were removed and nothing put in to replace it. It is the almighty bottom line which drives companys. The removal of the billions of lag inducing instant bookmarks was something that needed to be done, and to avoid losing subscriptions, CCP made a decision that kept the majority of players happy. From the initial anouncement that WTZ was staying in game, the number of people who did not like it was greatly outnumbered by the people who did. CCP does not make loads of cash by making decisions that make the minority happy while alienating the majority, if they are going to alienate anyone, it will be the minority, so that they lose less paying customers when the people who dont like the change leave.
well this sounds like the only logical reason so far ... so this is the playerbases fault ...
great so we can blame ourselve cuz we cant adapt ...
shame on us?
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Microsoft Sam
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.06.21 16:22:00 -
[139]
to be honest im glad the wtz is here and the instas are gone. i accumulated a stash of over 30000 instas on 2 characters.. a total of 60000 instas.. it maybe took me 4 or 5 seconds to load up my right click menu and probably double that to jump.
now i load up in or around a second and my right click menu has no instas.
tbh the change was a good one for my purposes, if i was a pirate i would probably have been against it but unlike most people i would have adapted.
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qilin
S.A.S
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.06.21 16:25:00 -
[140]
Edited by: qilin on 21/06/2007 16:24:27
i am so used to warp to zero i actually had totally forgotten you didnt used to be able to do it. i think its a good thing, its been accepted into the community and game. There was alot of *****ing and moaning about it when it came in but its all worked out fine. no more lag on making bms. Alot of people had instas for everywhere anyway so its not really made a whole lot of differance.
you have to catch people on the warp out now, which really isnt an issue, ppl still fight, kill, gank, pirate.
its put all the bm sellers and bm scammers out of buisness.
basically all good.
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Nish'a
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.21 16:42:00 -
[141]
Originally by: qilin
Edited by: qilin on 21/06/2007 16:24:27
i am so used to warp to zero i actually had totally forgotten you didnt used to be able to do it. i think its a good thing, its been accepted into the community and game. There was alot of *****ing and moaning about it when it came in but its all worked out fine. no more lag on making bms. Alot of people had instas for everywhere anyway so its not really made a whole lot of differance.
you have to catch people on the warp out now, which really isnt an issue, ppl still fight, kill, gank, pirate.
its put all the bm sellers and bm scammers out of buisness.
basically all good.
this is the same old agrument over and over again ...
what about tactic it has beend said soo often ...
people can tell you tales of new things which would make EVE combat better without instas or wtz ...
it is not like i want instas back... but I neither want wtz
wt 15 or wt 10 would just be fine, maybe some module ... scanning for a few secs before you iniate warp for an accuaray warp or anything similar would have worked just fine but WTZ is just god dam.n wrong in my book
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Tao Han
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.06.21 17:05:00 -
[142]
WTZ was introduced for the simple reason that bookmarks where putting a strain on the server. 100's of people copying thousands of bookmarks constantly is not all that great on performance.
The issue was to find a good compromise on how to handle the removal of the majority of the bookmarks and thus WTZ was introduced, but note that it doesnt work if you are AFK. So in reality millions of BM's where removed making it easier on server performance and everyone was given "gate instas".
Now this was changed along time ago so trying to start anything now is pointless, yes ppl kicked and screamed back then also but they eventually adapted or moved on.
This has all been explained since page one in this thread and if you dont "get it" (I think you do) then this might be the best trolling attempt ever 
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dirtfreak
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Posted - 2007.06.21 17:08:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Everyone already *had* warp-to-zero.
It was called 30,000 instaBMs
I made a fortune selling those...heh
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Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.06.21 17:28:00 -
[144]
Wasn't for the change at first but within a cple days was glad of it.
No more pesky instaBookmarks or having to copy them.
People with WTZ don't always land in docking range and die.
Dictors/bubbles do a grand job.
I don't want to spend half my evening traveling to a gate in a slow ass ship because my navigation computer is crap, am slowed down the other side by how long it takes me to get into warp.
No WTZ AP which means you have to sit at the computer to use WTZ, like with bookmarks.
If CCP removed the ability to WTZ completely you would see less combat as a whole fleet wise + no doubt a lot of people consider leaving the game. Travel is not fun, don't make it longer.
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Maxpie
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2007.06.21 17:31:00 -
[145]
It removed the most boring, worthless part of the game at the expense of some gate gankers who don't want to adapt. Personally I think it's the best improvement ever introduced. I"m not fond of sitting watching my ship crawl to a station, gate, belt or whatever. I have limited time to play, I want to play during that time.
He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things. |
fluffybunney
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Posted - 2007.06.21 17:53:00 -
[146]
constantly bumping the topic with a one or two sentence response is not very good trolling, and you're not even subtly attempting to flame others. I give you a 2/10 for persistance but your technique needs a lot of work.
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DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2007.06.21 18:29:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Nish'a
I left the game over 1 year ago and came back to see all that new stuff which I overall seem to like.
However: warp to zero
who in their right mind introduced that?
I could bet that Oveur swore that this would never happen?
Why has he changed his mind?
Im lost, for me this is a gamebreaker.
God I cant belive that ... 
Sounds like you need to go away for another year.
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tiewan
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Posted - 2007.06.21 18:56:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Erim Solfara
I'm with you Nish'a
I'd like to point out to you lot that 'faster travel' isn't neccessarily a good thing, the idea of having a 15km run to a gate restricted fleet and large ship travel times, it made the whole world bigger, made people stay and defend their own regions, a mass exodus or invasion was alot more of a feat to organise, and that's how it should be.
A battleship raiding party shouldn't be able to hope across a region or 2, engage, and run away home in an afternoon.
It just negates the whole concept of space as being this really REALLY big thing.
True.. but if you don't want fleet movements to be so easy.. they would have to remove insta's
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Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.21 21:33:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Neuromandis on 21/06/2007 21:33:53
Nish'a, I have a question for you (three actually)
a) Did you live in 0.0? If so, did *you* travel with instas?
*If you didn't , I'm all with you, you have balls, and you have the RIGHT to say wtz sucks.
*IF you did, STFU cause you're just a hypocrite who wanted to have an advantage at the expense of the rest of the playerbase
Yes the playerbase: Both your week-old victims that didn't have the chance or the money to get/buy bookmarks, and the rest of eve that had to suffer from lag, crashes and node-deaths so you could enjoy your advantage
The only difference now is that everyone does what you did anyway.
b) Or did you live in lowsec? If so, why don't you try moving around 0.0 as well a bit, but only warping to 15km. If you survive a single trip somewhere dangerous, I;m all with you as well. But since you won't, at least not with anything but an interceptor/nanoship, you need to understand that simply deleting the instas was NOT an option. It would very very much penalize (if not kill) 0.0, and that is a much bigger problem than inconveniencing the FEW lowsec pirates.
Being dangerous is one thing. Suicidal is another. So in any case, instas were NEEDED. And since they had to go, something different had to be implemented. Thus came WTZ, long live WTZ, that removed the stupid useless brainless bookmark copying.
c) Or did you live in empire, in which case get off our back and play the game?
I am betting my money on (b) to be honest, that you're mainly a lowsec character, because you don't sound like a hypocrite (which you would be if it was (a)), or a carebear (which you would be if the answer to (c) was yes).
In which case, think of all of us that live in 0.0 and CANNOT travel without either instas OR WTZ, and the change has been a blessing by removing a stupid LAG-sink that were the old instas.
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Vodka Neat
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.21 22:01:00 -
[150]
I wonder if Nish'a was a bookmark seller...
Anyhow I love it one less time waster is always good.
Why are you still reading? Its over. Continue to the next post.
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