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Mining in bugged belts? Should we tolerate that?

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Elenia Keynes	Posted - 2004.01.17 18:48:00 - [1] some people (well, a lot of people) are using grid bug in belts to mine without npcs interference. CCP indicates it could be ocnsidered as an exploit but nothing compared to cowards/griefer using grid bugs around gates to kill other players. I'm wondering if something should be done against people using such tacticts for mining ... Sometimes belts are bugged, it's not your fault but some people are using this a bit too much imo... What do u think about that?
scouting	Posted - 2004.01.17 18:51:00 - [2] they are working on a fix --------------------------------------- Last nights patch, was, without doubt, the worst ever. Rest assured that I was on the forum within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world.
Elenia Keynes	Posted - 2004.01.17 18:58:00 - [3] good to hear... Some people were having "special" bms only for that... in order to make afk mining for bistot
Skillz	Posted - 2004.01.17 19:15:00 - [4] They should be banned, like any other exploiters. Keep on flaming, lamers.
Tenacha Khan	Posted - 2004.01.17 19:21:00 - [5] It has also come to light that the more ôresourcefulö members of the 0.0 mining community find hidden belts (those that have fallen off the grid), but ccp deem this as an exploit. I think that ccp should change their view point on this exploit and allow it...for it is realistic that there is unmarked belts and that these unmarked belts will not be infested with npcs and make it easier to mine. This would mean that explorers would be hired by corporations to find these belts, because at the moment explorers wander aimlessly looking for that ôone big findö. Furthermore, most of the eve community (including myself) believe that rules are important and try not to break them, players would then feel free to mine these ôhidden beltsö, this would also mean more megacyte for the construction and engineering industry in Eve. It also has a knock on effect, the lesser ores will then become more sought after again and the newer players to Eve will be able to get started easier, compared to as it stands now, there is not much market demand for trit, pyerite, mexalon, isogen and noxium. Also, if this did happen, there would be more traffic in and out of 0.0 and wasn't that the point of castor? More indys full of ore = more 0.0 pirate activity and thus leaving the empire huggers alone. This would mean people hiring armed escorts to fight the pirates (that part is stolen from lifewire) . Also fighting and mining corporations would make temporary alliances to do this. So if people were allowed to mine hidden belts it would benefit everyone in eve.
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.01.17 19:35:00 - [6] "I think that ccp should change their view point on this exploit and allow it...for it is realistic that there is unmarked belts and that these unmarked belts will not be infested with npcs and make it easier to mine." ... Might as well then remove asteroids from the current 'official' 0.0 belts, because who is going to risk pointlessly by mining in them, when they can do it safely? The only people going in the 'official' belts will be the NPC hunters, and they aren't interested in the rocks... so there's no point to have them there.
Tenacha Khan	Posted - 2004.01.17 19:45:00 - [7] I figure thay should make these belts harder to find. People are not mining the normal belts anyway...
RagnarH	Posted - 2004.01.17 19:57:00 - [8] Edited by: RagnarH on 17/01/2004 19:57:24 Quote: They should be banned, like any other exploiters. sure, let's ban half of Curse-alliance members This char is perm banned on forums :S
Kurenin	Posted - 2004.01.17 20:31:00 - [9] It is an exploit. Ban them. They are making obscene ammount of isk with absolutely no risk (not kidding about this, no risk at all) sometimes AFK in industrial ships. It is just wrong. ----- [22:02] <Kurenin> anyhow, on a more serious note, what did you think of those ideas? [22:02] <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming Inactivity wins you.
Kurtz	Posted - 2004.01.17 20:32:00 - [10] J0sephine, I donÆt think you have done this type of mining before. First off, you have to find one of these belts. This is no easy feat. Normally to mine higher end ores you have to venture out into deep 0.0 sec areas and find belts bearing the ore you are searching for, and for the most part these belts are only plentiful some 50 jumps out from Empire space. Of course there are rare ore systems in closer, but the odds are lower for finding anything. From the few systems that hold rare ores you must search each system and locate off grid ôstraysö. This takes considerable time. Once you have located stray belts, you will usually find only a dozen or so rocks there, and of that one to five of the rare ores. The one thing that nobody seems to bring up is: ôThe asteroid has been depletedö. Once you take the ore from those places, it takes a long time for it to replenish. The limited nature of these locations, combined with much ore can be extracted, places natural restrictions on how much these finds can be ôExploitedö. If this were as you suggested a easy feat, then nobody would be mining in empire space, we would all be out AFK mining in our industrials in hidden belts. If large well-organized corporations such as yours have the ability to pull in tremendous amounts of ore unfettered, there would be no Megacyte and Zydrine issues. There would be a glut. I think the phrase ôMeta game playö is more appropriate to this activity.
Phoibos	Posted - 2004.01.17 20:35:00 - [11] The hidden once are hard to find. And they will run out pretty fast. Then you have to mine in the normal ones. It is possbible to mine in the normal anyways but it is a pain. There should be some hidden belts with no npc i think, but they should not work like they do now with the out of grid distance.Remember that exploring should be part of the game too. I pay corp members several millions for good belts for example so we have a tiny exploring "division". Quite fun i think. /Phoibos
Kurenin	Posted - 2004.01.17 20:37:00 - [12] Kurtz. There would be megacyte and zydrine. People would just have to work together using teamwork instead of doing things solo. The spawns arent hard just get a team together and do it. No I in team... So on so forth ----- [22:02] <Kurenin> anyhow, on a more serious note, what did you think of those ideas? [22:02] <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming Inactivity wins you.
Valeria	Posted - 2004.01.17 20:44:00 - [13] Anyone who defends this kind of exploiting while at the same time complain about ganking at gates in 1.0 systems deserves to die from veldspar poisoning. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Arthur Guinness	Posted - 2004.01.17 21:54:00 - [14] Quote: Kurtz. There would be megacyte and zydrine. People would just have to work together using teamwork instead of doing things solo. The spawns arent hard just get a team together and do it. No I in team... So on so forth i love it when ppl say such things but don't have a clue how bad the spawns can be. get real you need 5+ bs to protect a mining op. the empire guys were already whining when mega was 20k per unit, make us mine it with 5+bs just for cover and we sell it for 50k per unit. Once npc spawns are fixed it's an other thing, but atm mining in 0.0 belts is almost impossible. mining in empire would make more money.
Klydor	Posted - 2004.01.17 22:02:00 - [15] Edited by: Klydor on 17/01/2004 22:05:21 edit: I removed a description of the gate grid exploit just in case. If its an exploit then it needs to be announced as one and people told not to do it. This isn't like sitting at a gate and using the grid exploit for ganking people. Its moving 1000's of kilometers to belts that don't appear on the scanner in order to mine. It involves real time and effort to find them. If people are in a belt with npc's and move a few k over the grid to mine without npcs attacking, then its an exploit. But if you find a belt with some ore in, why should players be banned for mining it? If players are not allowed to mine in these areas, then why is there ore there? I can understand there been ore a few kms over the grid by accident, but how can belts that don't appear on the scanner and are 1000's of km from a normal belt be an accident? These belts don't show on the scanner you have to spend time exploring to find them. They've been in the game for a long long time, and I always thought they were there as a reward to explorers. If this is not the case people need telling this instead of just banning.. If not, maybe the ore in the hidden belts should be removed. I'm not sure how ore distribution works, but if people continually mine the normal belts, whats to stop the hidden belt roids getting fatter and fatter until there is no ore left in the normal belts?
SwitchBl4d3	Posted - 2004.01.17 22:28:00 - [16] u3k in Great wildlands is just like that, they actually explore them in pods, I caught a guy napping in one and woke hm up wth a cruise missiles, fortunately for him he woke up quick "Teh lord of Nonni"
Skillz	Posted - 2004.01.17 22:59:00 - [17] No, they don't want to do team work. Mostly beacuse they are silly stuff strutters. Keep on flaming, lamers.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.01.17 23:00:00 - [18] If they banned people for this exploit half of Eve would disappear from the servers for X number of days. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Skillz	Posted - 2004.01.17 23:02:00 - [19] For once, I agree with JC, but fix it fast. It's just ruining the game. Keep on flaming, lamers.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.01.17 23:06:00 - [20] I wouldn't mind if there was a tiny percentage of "hidden" belts throughout the Eve Universe though - it'd be a nice reward for explorers and the like. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Reddari	Posted - 2004.01.18 00:47:00 - [21] Are you referring to "grid belts" or "hidden belts"? I've found a gigantic old Veldspar in 0.0, it was 1500 km from the nearest "proper belt". I have NEVER seen a "proper" belt which is 1500 km wide. There is a difference, to find the "hidden belts" we have to run from NPC's while using our scanners aiming all around, we then have to travel 300-1500 km out to find the hidden belts, all the time using the scanner to pinpoint the location. When we get there it might be empty, depleted roids with a couple of ore left in them, someone else found it first! Finding hidden belts requires tactics, time and patience. Comparing them to mining in "grid bug but proper belts" is for me, plain nonsense. Funny to see Kurenin indignant though...
Woetra	Posted - 2004.01.18 01:31:00 - [22] WTF? quit complaining all the time. when safe roids are gone and small corps can't handle the spawns you'll all be in tears, nevermind i'm sure you'll be able to cry on the forums and ccp will put them back in for you. There are other ways of making risk free money, some of them are scams. This one isn't so just enjoy it while it lasts. As far as I'm concerned nothings an exploit till it goes on the news-board. Everything else gets different answers from different GM's Oh and how the hell do you call a 10 jump trip through a 0.0 sec warzone in an indy "risk-free"? Sig Thief
Skillz	Posted - 2004.01.18 01:40:00 - [23] Funny to see people pratically aditting to be exploiters. Keep on flaming, lamers.
Sally	Posted - 2004.01.18 01:56:00 - [24] Warn. If ignored, ban. Grid exploiters suck. -- Stories: #1 --
NeoMorph	Posted - 2004.01.18 06:07:00 - [25] I'm a little confused here... Finding roids and mining them is now considered an exploit? Excuse me but the way things are going logging into the game is going to be an exploit in the near future. "Hidden" belts have been in the game since god knows when... I thought it was one of the things we were "supposed" to look for.... "Explore the galaxy" and all that. For your information the so called "hidden" belts I've mined haven't been safe and I'm always getting chased off them by rats spawning 20km from me. This is NOT an exploit... this is just Ninja Mining! If you can't do it then don't whine at the people who can. ------------------------------------------- <Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros>
Skillz	Posted - 2004.01.18 07:44:00 - [26] Edited by: Skillz on 18/01/2004 07:45:20 Explore the galaxy in Yulai, close to the gate to Amarr. From there you can shoot people without interference. So why is mining without NPCs that are supposed to be there not an exploit but mining PC without NPCs that are supposed there, to be an exploit? Hypocrits. Keep on flaming, lamers.
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2004.01.18 08:33:00 - [27] Never seen one of these belts. If its over a grid line and thats why npc's don't attack you then its an exploit obviously. Otherwise not. While we're on the topic, NPC's spawning in every single belt in Eve besides 1.0 and 9.0 is stupid. Players should be interacting with NPC's not NPC's with players. PC's should be the biggest and most potent threat to other players and alliances should be forced to protect their ore and not rely on NPC armada's to do that. Infinity
Alexis Machine	Posted - 2004.01.18 08:37:00 - [28] Hidden belts have been here since the game went gold, and in beta. Some have rats, some don't. They have to find em too. I suppose finding destroyed stations full of loot is an exploit too? Oh and looting derelict ships.. Isn't the grid exploit fixed on chaos? ----------------sig---------------------------- Dtai'kai'-dte sa-de nau'gkon dtain'aun bpi-de. if you don't wake up, i'll have to stop kissing you. all that flailing has made you sleepy. you rest while i untie you. stay here until they find you. My hand made mannequin. i won't let them get you. they'll know you're mine by the fingerprints on your throat. isn't she lovely? isn't she wonderful? like the *****s that we are, swatting flies from the wounds we design.
Mr nStuff	Posted - 2004.01.18 09:14:00 - [29] blah blah.. it's an exploit.. But I don't care who uses it.. People need the minerals. And if they ever fix the grid problem. I seriously doubt any of the corps capable of mining the goods plan to share. They will keep the minerals for the cause. Wouldn't make sense to sell the mega and then buy it to build ships.. No.. you keep the mega to build ships. Gonna sucks when the soloers can't supply the rest of you with minerals. Even if they aint makin bizilzians of isk anymores. 5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers.. Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer. My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period. Expires on 19. September 2004
Lilan Kahn	Posted - 2004.01.18 09:23:00 - [30] if you think ship prices where bad before wait and see how they are gona look soon ouch! Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Arthur Guinness	Posted - 2004.01.18 10:47:00 - [31] I had a GM in my non-npc belt last week, he didn't say anything about it being illegal or an exploit. In fact he laughed about the npc spawns in the proper belts ...... As for you skillz, it's not an exploit, go whine to ccp. And skillz you'd be the first to whine about megacyte prices anyway. As if there's a difference between grid bugged and hidden belts, no clue.
Iluyen	Posted - 2004.01.18 11:38:00 - [32] Quote: Edited by: RagnarH on 17/01/2004 19:57:24 Quote: They should be banned, like any other exploiters. sure, let's ban half of Curse-alliance members Yes, and lets ban all of SA/evol for always hiding in safespots, wich is no different from mining in safespots.
F4ze	Posted - 2004.01.18 11:51:00 - [33] You don't even have to look for gridbugged belts, you stumble upon them while mining without looking for them. I usually do ninjamining, but sometimes it happens that the NPC rats are bugged. They don't move, don't respawn, don't lock...they just sit there. So I should just pack my stuff and get out because I'm exploiting?
McWatt	Posted - 2004.01.18 13:14:00 - [34] Quote: Edited by: Skillz on 18/01/2004 07:45:20 Explore the galaxy in Yulai, close to the gate to Amarr. From there you can shoot people without interference. So why is mining without NPCs that are supposed to be there not an exploit but mining PC without NPCs that are supposed there, to be an exploit? Hypocrits. skillz is telling the simple truth here. somehow the word exploit is used rather fast with certain combat styles, while "weird" ways of making money pass unnoticed. it s been said before, risk reward is slightly out of balance in this game. the only counterbalance to this could come from PC pirates. great that they are stopped by insta jump bookmarks from doing their job.
Kin Hanyerec	Posted - 2004.01.18 16:12:00 - [35] Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 18/01/2004 16:37:20 Edit : i won't tell you what to do and i won't give you bad ideas
Blade Durrant	Posted - 2004.01.18 16:28:00 - [36] And i supposed you have the ability to warp to someone in local??? How the hell are people supposed to kill grid exploiters? Explore every frigging inch of the darn solar system? Really the hypocrisy about grid exploiting when its a gate, and not being grid exploiting when its a belt is ****ing me off....
McWatt	Posted - 2004.01.18 16:35:00 - [37] Quote: instead of whining that people is making a lot of isk without any risk in hidden belts, why you don't do your job and kill them ? you are acting exactly like npc pirates... you don't look for what you can't see instead of whining that ppl are killing you without any risk, why don t you do your job and avoid the grid-bugged gates? you are exactly like NPC convoys, running into the death that you can see
Kin Hanyerec	Posted - 2004.01.18 16:44:00 - [38] never had that problem
lickspittle	Posted - 2004.01.19 11:22:00 - [39] If you know of an asteroid belt where people are doing this, please e-mail a description of how to reproduce this bug there to [email protected]. I need some example locations to reproduce this in to ensure any fix that gets made works across the board. -- Richard CCP Programmer. Anything said above is not the official line, but my own take or opinion.
Kin Hanyerec	Posted - 2004.01.19 11:34:00 - [40] Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 19/01/2004 11:41:32 Quote: If you know of an asteroid belt where people are doing this, please e-mail a description of how to reproduce this bug there to [email protected]. I need some example locations to reproduce this in to ensure any fix that gets made works across the board. That means that hidden belts aren't intentional ? but why ? i think it's fun to have to explore an area of space which is not on the system objects list anyway you don't have to exploit any flaw of the game... just use a frigate with mwd, and navigate with your scanner for some time (depending on your speed) if you find something.
Miz Cenuij	Posted - 2004.01.19 11:47:00 - [41] An exploit is an exploit. "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
Silverlancer	Posted - 2004.01.19 11:49:00 - [42] Make the belts very rare, and have them move once every two days. Suddenly... no need for banning
Riddari	Posted - 2004.01.19 13:07:00 - [43] This is funny but sad. Two known PVP exploiters (and usually more) just can't put down that doll they picked up in their rage as they wave it around screaming their little lungs off. If anyone is not PVP-ing AND not in mortal danger EVERY second, then they are "carebearing" and "exploiting" and "don't have a place in EVE" If you want EVE to be a FPS, just give us unlimited respawns of our ships if they are insured. Just give us CounterStrike in space eh! ¼©¼ a history
LargeNuts	Posted - 2004.01.19 13:55:00 - [44] WTF?!?! Since when is using you brain an exploit? Why dont you people get off of your fat lazy a$$es and find hidden belts to find for yourselves? It is not that hard. See there is this tool called a "scanner"...You are all patheetic cry baby losers with no imagination, creativity, or ambition. You want to sit back and just whine about everyone else that is more successfull than you and find ways to call them exploiters.
Adliger Krieger	Posted - 2004.01.19 13:57:00 - [45] Edited by: Adliger Krieger on 19/01/2004 13:59:26 Edited by: Adliger Krieger on 19/01/2004 13:58:51 Quote: Quote: Kurtz. There would be megacyte and zydrine. People would just have to work together using teamwork instead of doing things solo. The spawns arent hard just get a team together and do it. No I in team... So on so forth i love it when ppl say such things but don't have a clue how bad the spawns can be. get real you need 5+ bs to protect a mining op. the empire guys were already whining when mega was 20k per unit, make us mine it with 5+bs just for cover and we sell it for 50k per unit. Once npc spawns are fixed it's an other thing, but atm mining in 0.0 belts is almost impossible. mining in empire would make more money. Amen, BECAUSE of the fact that people have found a way to mine Bistot, mineral, and naturally ship prices, will and have go down. Will you all be happy when you get your way and BS prices skyrocket again? ID10TS.
KIAEddZ	Posted - 2004.01.19 14:21:00 - [46] Quote: Kurtz. There would be megacyte and zydrine. People would just have to work together using teamwork instead of doing things solo. The spawns arent hard just get a team together and do it. No I in team... So on so forth utter bolix. A 3 BS spawn, with 10 Cruisers in Gurristas space, will cost you AT LEASt 3 BS, no matter who you are. Fix the bloody NPC to a manageable level for lets say, a 10 BS Operation, and you'll not have people using hidden belts, as its not that plentiful in hidden belts, and is a hassle. That said, Hidden belt mining is ok, grid exploiting, is verging on the dodgy, but whilst everyone else is doing it, so shall most others. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347 www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i
Other Minion	Posted - 2004.01.19 14:40:00 - [47] Well no need to debate this because I'm getting told that as of this recent downtime it has been 'fixed'.
Lockheed	Posted - 2004.01.19 15:06:00 - [48] Edited by: Lockheed on 19/01/2004 15:16:20 Quote: It is an exploit. Ban them. They are making obscene ammount of isk with absolutely no risk (not kidding about this, no risk at all) sometimes AFK in industrial ships. It is just wrong. pirating is an exploit[tm]. Ban them. These are power gamers bent on the destruction of the game (not kidding about this, grid hunting no risk at all) sometimes afk in scorps. Quote: WTF?!?! Since when is using you brain an exploit? Why dont you people get off of your fat lazy a$$es and find hidden belts to find for yourselves? It is not that hard. See there is this tool called a "scanner"...You are all patheetic cry baby losers with no imagination, creativity, or ambition. You want to sit back and just whine about everyone else that is more successfull than you and find ways to call them exploiters. Pirates have become TOTAL dam*ed whiners. You see the alts posting that started this discussion. If ccp has taken this out there will be zero solo ship mining in 0.0. Which will further kill more accounts by ccp listening to pirates and their alts. BELIEVE IT CCP, if you are truely doing this, just remember there is 2 sides to this story. I have seen petitions go up to about 10 per day per pirate. Every word they are saying is exploit, grid... Why do they get the benefit of getting ships back after they petition? why is logging off saving their ships still? They attack at 100 k where frigates have to use mwd to get near them.. by that time the frigate is dead due to the f90/sensor booster stack(which pirates found out first). Therefore frigs are useless in large scale battles. ________________ On a pale horse.
Lockheed	Posted - 2004.01.19 15:22:00 - [49] Quote: No, they don't want to do team work. Mostly beacuse they are silly stuff strutters. Everything you say gets more idiotic. Not everyone can schedule time to play with others, ie time zones, rl problems/emergencies. Power gamers like you that look for every exploit possible are ruining the game, but when someone else finds a profitable way to get minerals to build ships to fight you in, you cry. If it were up 2 u skills there would be zero sentury guns, no concord, no place to hide for n00bs, and 10 to 20 n00bs per day carrying big ticket blueprints going 120km/s 60k distance to the gate in a bestower. ________________ On a pale horse.
Blade Durrant	Posted - 2004.01.19 15:30:00 - [50] Edited by: Blade Durrant on 19/01/2004 15:45:26 Im neither a pirate or an alt and i sure as hell aint a carebear. And yes grid mining is an exploit. GM Xhaghen said it this morning in the help channel. PIRATING IS NOT AN EXPLOIT. The only real reason ganking happens is: drumroll. Sentry Guns. If it wasnt for sentry guns, you would see a lot less 60km shoot everything in site blockades, and a lot more action in empire space. Sadly though, sentries are here to stay, grid mining is not. Xhagen said that grid problems will be gone in the next patch. So whenever the next patch rolls around, no more grid mining. And alot of these so called "hidden belts" are really just part of the same asteroid belt, so in reality, its still grid mining. As Miz said: "An Exploit is an Exploit" And if people knew how to configure ships to kill npc rats fast, maybe they could mine low sec. Tachyons, 1400s, and 425s ARENT the only large weapons in the game you know. A tempest with 800s, a Mega with Neutrons, and an Apoc with close range weapons kills cruiser rats at 25km in 15-30 seconds. Jeez people, do some thinking...Now if the rats jump in at 25k, i need to kill them in under 2 minutes....what do i need to equip to do that...pt blank weapons. Is that that difficult to understand? Understand the game, think about the problems, find a solution. Oh and use cruisers to mine not battleships. BTW Miz I love your sig. Kudo's to you or whoever made it.
Silverlancer	Posted - 2004.01.19 15:36:00 - [51] MINING OFF GRID IS OK... If the devs have the off-grid fields move every day . No more camping that sweet offgrid field... you'll have to find another tomorrow
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.01.19 15:39:00 - [52] Quote: WTF?!?! Since when is using you brain an exploit? Why dont you people get off of your fat lazy a$$es and find hidden belts to find for yourselves? It is not that hard. See there is this tool called a "scanner"...You are all patheetic cry baby losers with no imagination, creativity, or ambition. You want to sit back and just whine about everyone else that is more successfull than you and find ways to call them exploiters. Odd...how many people screamed m0o was exploiting when they used their brains, imagination, creativity and ambition to wtfpwnkthnxb1 people at Mara/Passari using stamped heat sinks and surgical strike? How many people screamed Space Invaders was exploiting wht they used their brains, imagination, creativity and ambition to tank the sentry guns? Odd what people will attempt to justify to protect their wallets, ain't it? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
LargeNuts	Posted - 2004.01.19 16:16:00 - [53] Quote: Odd what people will attempt to justify to protect their wallets, ain't it? Yep, that is what you are doing right now by trying to get this taken away insted of looking for your own hidden belts. Hidden belts make things fun. Its exciting looking for them and finding them. I say keep them. There is nothing keeping you lazy tools from making money in them. And dont compare this to the Grid Griefers, that's just silly.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.01.19 16:21:00 - [54] Quote: If ccp has taken this out there will be zero solo ship mining in 0.0. Duh. When carebears get threatened... It doesn't happen very often, but the reactions are priceless. hidden belts - I don't have a problem with. grid belts - exploit. And suddenly everyone is up in arms; "WHAT DO YUO MEAN I CAN'T MINE BISTOT ON MY OWN. OMGS NO FAIR!!" CAREBEARS: KNOW YOUR LIMITS. Solo bist mining is what happens when an exploiter stumbles across an exploit. The people who claim the most ignorance of this, are the ones who are making the most money from it. Strange coincidence, or just greedy ****ers? .
Heine Shaver	Posted - 2004.01.19 16:23:00 - [55] If I recalll correctly didn't one of the devs mention that when players learn strategys and get some t2 they will be able to mine again. Well one strategy I learned is you lose battleships to ctd's when 20 guys spawn and start the river of missles. The other strategy I learned is that modules don't kick on for 15 seconds sometimes when you get spawned on. Ban the npc lag exploiters, insta targeters(even when I'm in a frigate) and then the super corps with 5-10 bs's will mine in a non-exploit manner(since no one else can).
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.01.19 16:31:00 - [56] Quote: Quote: Odd what people will attempt to justify to protect their wallets, ain't it? Yep, that is what you are doing right now by trying to get this taken away insted of looking for your own hidden belts. Hidden belts make things fun. Its exciting looking for them and finding them. I say keep them. There is nothing keeping you lazy tools from making money in them. And dont compare this to the Grid Griefers, that's just silly. 1) I buy all my minerals because I can't be arsed to pay 12.95 per month to let my Mammoth stare at an arkanor roid for hours while I go play another game on another PC. So if the majority of the high end minerals are coming from off grid mining, I'm going to take a hit in the wallet. And I still say it's an exploit. 2) I never said a single thing about grid griefing, now did I. This is about the point where Viceroy delivers a box of cookies for you. kthnxb1! I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Kin Hanyerec	Posted - 2004.01.19 16:38:00 - [57] Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 19/01/2004 16:45:18 Hey don't flame ! i'm asking seriously about those hidden belts ... It seems logic to me that there aren't only a hundred of asteroids in a solar system, and that asteroids belts usually cover more than an area of 200km radius (and that pirates can't cover every asteroid in a system). And If it was a bug you will find only one or two, in the universe, but there are hidden belts , in venal, in fountain, and in almost every region from what i heard. That's why i'm asking, it's not evident to define this as an exploit, i thought it was intentional before the dev's post . I'm asking to a dev (if they have the time :p) to explain if : - the hidden belts existence is intentional - If it's the fact that there aren't pirates in these hidden belts, is the "bug". and what will be done about that : - npc pirates spawns in belts , if there is too much people mining ? - deletion of every belt outside the "marked" belts ? Anyway i'm not trying to defend this cause, it's their game and it's their job to build it the way they want to... but finding objects in space with scanner is really fun
Roba	Posted - 2004.01.19 16:41:00 - [58] Lol, leave an indy afk in 0.0 space and any pc pirate that knows how to use a scanner will pod you. Also this created a profession in eve, well style. Scouting. I can tell you this though. With this removed mega prices will shoot up to over 25k - 30k within 2 weeks. The reason it droped to 12k was because of this grid mining. Unless they make the rats half the strength they are now it will not be profitable to mining ops. Why because right now it takes about 10 battleships to pull an op to mine this stuff. And those ten BS make a big mark on the map, and that mark calls PC pirates who know that they will have an easy time killing apocs fitted with miners and other bs's fitted for rat killing.
Kin Hanyerec	Posted - 2004.01.19 16:50:00 - [59] right, selling mega 30k per unit is better than 20k
Sharon Osbourne	Posted - 2004.01.19 16:52:00 - [60] Edited by: Sharon Osbourne on 19/01/2004 16:56:25 Quote: Lol, leave an indy afk in 0.0 space and any pc pirate that knows how to use a scanner will pod you. Also this created a profession in eve, well style. Scouting. I can tell you this though. With this removed mega prices will shoot up to over 25k - 30k within 2 weeks. The reason it droped to 12k was because of this grid mining. Unless they make the rats half the strength they are now it will not be profitable to mining ops. Why because right now it takes about 10 battleships to pull an op to mine this stuff. And those ten BS make a big mark on the map, and that mark calls PC pirates who know that they will have an easy time killing apocs fitted with miners and other bs's fitted for rat killing. exactally, the pirates just want to bend the game to their will every way possible. Voicing their crapinons and petitioning every day .... is too much crying for big tough pirates. It is becomming expected though. Sooner or later the devs/gm's will be deaf to the begging and pleading of pirates. Still they love to say that carebears r teh l337 whiners. Seems to me that people that whine the least amount would be the ones that the devs respect the most. We have come to deal with the harshness of castor and yet the pirates want it harder.. guess what mr pirate... "shut your cake hole, IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!!!!" ...teh rock _______________________ Rode the crazy train
Blade Durrant	Posted - 2004.01.19 16:57:00 - [61] Hmm as i recall most of the major changes in this game are the result of whining from carebears.... Lets see: Sentry Guns Concord on steroids No decaying sec rating More sentry guns Im sure there's more, but im still hungover from last night.
SithEwok	Posted - 2004.01.19 17:00:00 - [62] Quote: Hmm as i recall most of the major changes in this game are the result of whining from carebears.... Lets see: Sentry Guns Concord on steroids No decaying sec rating More sentry guns Im sure there's more, but im still hungover from last night. without these implementations people like tankceo would have been in 1.0 killing noobs and hauling his ore in every day with his alt. That was to do away with exploiting which is still done. Im really supprised at the tollerance lvl ccp has developed for pirates.. ie.. no more than a slap on the wrist. Next week new exploit.
Blade Durrant	Posted - 2004.01.19 17:02:00 - [63] Without pirates there would be no economy, no economy would mean no reason to build ships/equipment/ammo, no reason to build above means no reason to mine, no reason to mine means no reason to do anything, therefore the game will die. PVP RUNS THE ECONOMY.
SithEwok	Posted - 2004.01.19 17:13:00 - [64] Quote: Without pirates there would be no economy, no economy would mean no reason to build ships/equipment/ammo, no reason to build above means no reason to mine, no reason to mine means no reason to do anything, therefore the game will die. PVP RUNS THE ECONOMY. Without minerals there would be no ships, no ammo, NO ECONOMY, lol where do you get your ideas they are both needed, not in equal numbers for sure, so you cannot give too much power to the pirates or the NEW BLOOD comming into the game will quit if all they get is ganked.
Blade Durrant	Posted - 2004.01.19 17:18:00 - [65] Edited by: Blade Durrant on 19/01/2004 17:20:35 Personally i think if i was a n00b just starting i would rahter have asteroid belts in my home system than gate guns.... Dont want to get ganked?? Then dont go where ganking happens. Avoiding orvolle, ostingale, amamake, auroheren, and choke points increases your chances of not getting podded by 99%.
OmegaTron	Posted - 2004.01.19 17:19:00 - [66] i've have noticed a increase of CTD while mining since the patch. Also have noticed ALOT of lag since patch ------------------------------------------------ A Plague is comming....
babyblue	Posted - 2004.01.19 18:30:00 - [67] It depends (the original question). As I don't know how to use this cheat, its a bad thing. If someone were to tell me all about how to do it, then it'll suddenly become a useful game feature.
Riddari	Posted - 2004.01.19 19:44:00 - [68] Quote: Without pirates there would be no economy, no economy would mean no reason to build ships/equipment/ammo, no reason to build above means no reason to mine, no reason to mine means no reason to do anything, therefore the game will die. PVP RUNS THE ECONOMY. PVP runs economy Pirates don't PVP amongst corps such as PFOM/Oracle and PIE, now that's some good fun PVP where ships are killed in Aurohunen, Orvolle etc simply to pick up the loot... not even fun for the gankers I think most of the pirates are probably the type we know from: Counter-Strike Instead of defusing the bomb he runs to the other bomb site to see if the remaining terrorists are still there so he can shoot them - TEAM LOSES Team Fortress Instead of babysitting the VIP he rocketjumps on top of a spawn point and kills the lone snipers appearing there - TEAM LOSES Quake Yep, jumps to the railgun and sits in his corner sniping... l33t skills - TEAM LOSES In EVE, the TEAM LOSING is CCP and the rest of the players. Sure, pirating should be possible, it just shouldn't be the mainstream profession it's become. ¼©¼ a history
JackDonkey	Posted - 2004.01.19 19:46:00 - [69] Are there any hidden belts (belts so big you need the scanner to find some of the roids) in empire space? Are >90% of the hidden belts in 0.0 space? Do you think this is some kind of strange coincidence? It's called logic.
Mr nStuff	Posted - 2004.01.19 20:12:00 - [70] They aren't hidden belts.. You guys make it sound like they are some type of feature like hidden pirate bases. Silly how people try to justify cheating. Ok.. Go ahead and exploit the grid problem. I personally don't care. In this case I blame it on CCP because they suck. Pirates are stupidly difficult to even hunt let known mine around. And how stupid is it to make items in one grid invisible to everything in the adjoining grids. Ok.. I think it's perfectly fine for you to take advantage of this.. People need the minerals. And no one gets hurt. But to sit here and say it is in no way an exploit. That's denial or something. To me that's as dumb as the people that say when you jettison ore while mining, it's no longer yours.. It's your pirate given right to steal ore from a miner. But to sit there and say.. "Oh.. Well I thought you didn't want the ore no more because you jettisoned it". And to actually believe that.. Well you get the idea. 5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers.. Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer. My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period. Expires on 19. September 2004
Riddari	Posted - 2004.01.19 20:12:00 - [71] Show me a gridline that extends 1500 km from the belt and I'll admit that hidden belts don't exists, only gridbugs... ¼©¼ a history
McWatt	Posted - 2004.01.19 20:18:00 - [72] lol. this is weird!!!
Ramman	Posted - 2004.01.19 21:20:00 - [73] Edited by: Ramman on 19/01/2004 21:27:35 Admittedly I only read the "first" page of responses to this topic. One important point about the "hidden" belts was not mentioned. Hidden belts are a realistic construct of a dynamic system, not an exploit! Not every belt could ever possibly be camped by NPC's in RL so why should they be in EVE? Leave the hidden belts alone and they will eventually run out. Ramman out...
Blade Durrant	Posted - 2004.01.19 22:42:00 - [74] Actually there are always a certain number of belts that are unguarded for brief periods of time. Thats what let us all ninja mine early on.
Kular	Posted - 2004.01.20 01:57:00 - [75] You people who are against the hidden belts just don't get it do you? Not every corp has tons of members in BS who can actually make money by mining in the belts. What little ore there is in hidden belts is just perfect for the small corps who can spend time looking for it. There is a ton more bist in the regular belts we're lucky to find 2 roids in 1 hidden belt. They are there for a reason so leave us explorers alone, we need to make a living also! Home of Ubiqua Seraph Eve's only all Sarum loyal corporation.
Skillz	Posted - 2004.01.20 02:09:00 - [76] Quote: If you know of an asteroid belt where people are doing this, please e-mail a description of how to reproduce this bug there to [email protected]. Directly from a dev himself. So have a cookie about it not being an exploit. I'm a freedom fighter, I fight for freedom from. 1) Exploiters in general 2) 24/7 Macro miners 3) Gridbug exploiters 4) Jade Constatine (Only kidding) 5) Carebears 6) Teletubbies 7) Mining drones 8) 7 million skillpoint old nubs And when we gank an industrial full of arkonor, we know that we have corrected an exploiters illgotten gain. Keep on flaming, lamers.
Blade Durrant	Posted - 2004.01.20 02:27:00 - [77] Good 'ole skillz, always there to entertain me with his posts.
AndoJin	Posted - 2004.01.20 23:07:00 - [78] Well I know Venal uses the Grid Exploit all the time, that is the only way they can mine. Kill the Exploiters!
Errol Dinn	Posted - 2004.01.20 23:22:00 - [79] Skillz, define a gridbug exploit. I thought it was the lamers in Yulai and what not firing through the grid and killing people. Now mind you I've only been playing for about two months so I'm not the most well informed person out there but from what I've read grids are about 250KM x 250KM x 250KM. How is a belt 1500KM away from a main belt a grid bug exploit? That's at least four entire grids away from the belt making it a hidden belt not a grid bug. Now the belts that are just on the other side of the gridline that don't get a pirate spawn, I could agree with but again thats different from a belt 1500KM away from the main belt.
Totty	Posted - 2004.01.20 23:28:00 - [80] Good luck to anyone who finds a belt that's rat free and full of arkonor. If this is not meant to be a game feature, then belts should be sited where there isn't a grid problem, and hidden belts removed. You can't seriously expect people not to touch, if its there. I see this as very different to the Yulai gate issue, where other innocent players were exploited in a supposedly secure place.
Kilhu Emmek	Posted - 2004.01.20 23:57:00 - [81] I've been finding "phantom" asteroids since early launch, and have gotten quite good at it. I don't think these are "off grid" asteroids, as they're more than 500km away from any "charted" belt. Some of them are as much as 2000km away. I always thought they were intentional, sort of "lost rocks" or part of pseudo-LaGrange points or an Oort cloud. I mean, even when you get really good at finding these things (and I think I'm really good, by this point) they can still take hours to find. Granted, once you find them you can more or less mine unmolested (depends on where, after all), but they're still a lot of work to locate, and they don't last forever. I recall from beta someone at CCP saying they intended asteroid belts to be spread out over a huge area--essentially orbiting the star in their systems--the way they are in reality. I thought the recent "huge belt" addition was a step in that direction. I've seen the "off grid" asteroids, too--these are different from these "phantom" rocks because they exist in regular-seeming "chains" of rocks within roughly 200km or so of a "charted" belt. Anyway. I've emailed Richard about it. If it's an exploit, I think front page news or notification on log-in would be in order. As so many have said, CCP has dealt very lightly with exploiters in the past, and though I hate exploits and refuse to use them, there is a feeling of "well, the folks that are exploiting are just getting ahead." Bit hard to play nice when the not-so-nice are getting more kills and more isk. Gradient is hiring. Read our Code of Conduct before applying.
Christopher Xen	Posted - 2004.01.21 12:25:00 - [82] Quote: Quote: Without pirates there would be no economy, no economy would mean no reason to build ships/equipment/ammo, no reason to build above means no reason to mine, no reason to mine means no reason to do anything, therefore the game will die. PVP RUNS THE ECONOMY. Without minerals there would be no ships, no ammo, NO ECONOMY, lol where do you get your ideas they are both needed, not in equal numbers for sure, so you cannot give too much power to the pirates or the NEW BLOOD comming into the game will quit if all they get is ganked. ya know it is called low sec space for a reason. If you can't handle a challenge i suggest you dont leave .5 or above space mr. whino
Alexa Varajan	Posted - 2004.01.21 13:16:00 - [83] Mebee it would be an idea to tone down a bit the size of the rocks in hidden belts (or isn't that possible)? I admit, I know of such locations. 2 of em had like 15'000m3 ark in them, mineable in in any ship u like and not even that far form a station. So in Megacyte alone, these 2 locations where valued at +650 Million. Some people got stinky rich since castor (too bad I'm no mining char...) I'm not agains hidden belts. But the amount of money in them at the moment is obscene compared to the very low risk..
SinBin	Posted - 2004.08.03 10:41:00 - [84] Hi all didnt read it all soz & bit late to, im a scout & love such things, CCP need add more top ores in random place & hidden belt. As a new small corp 0.0 is only good at the crossing witch is full of pirates & over mined & the rest is sitting at the concouerble station in the hand of massive alliances that aint very nice & realy suspect of everything & anyone. The only reason for someone to complain " Elenia " is cos you cant find 1 ?, I havent found 1 yet but im now looking & hope I do before ccp spoil that to, like my cruise I train ages for then had to wait for my BS to fire um. Id rather the greedy big corps go to hidden belts & stay out the noobs fields to. _______________________________________ Ill Shutup when CCP remove bookmarks Maybe end the election round will do it ? & could save hundred of Users & Mods pain.
SinBin	Posted - 2004.08.03 10:41:00 - [85] Hi all didnt read it all soz & bit late to, im a scout & love such things, CCP need add more top ores in random place & hidden belt. As a new small corp 0.0 is only good at the crossing witch is full of pirates & over mined & the rest is sitting at the concouerble station in the hand of massive alliances that aint very nice & realy suspect of everything & anyone. The only reason for someone to complain " Elenia " is cos you cant find 1 ?, I havent found 1 yet but im now looking & hope I do before ccp spoil that to, like my cruise I train ages for then had to wait for my BS to fire um. Id rather the greedy big corps go to hidden belts & stay out the noobs fields to. _______________________________________ Ill Shutup when CCP remove bookmarks Maybe end the election round will do it ? & could save hundred of Users & Mods pain.
Orestes	Posted - 2004.08.03 11:07:00 - [86] Old old thread Join the IC!
Orestes	Posted - 2004.08.03 11:07:00 - [87] Old old thread Join the IC!

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