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TECH II BPO Removal

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 408	Posted - 2012.01.06 18:21:00 - [31] - Quote op, props to you this is a fantastic way to start the new year great thread, would read again, your responses are awesome
Zaxix Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog 16	Posted - 2012.01.06 18:41:00 - [32] - Quote I know that when I was deciding whether or not to play EVE, the very first thing I did was check to see whether T2 BPO's existed. Nevermind that I didn't know what T2 meant or stood for or what the hell a BPO was.
Linda Shadowborn Dark Steel Industries 55	Posted - 2012.01.06 18:44:00 - [33] - Quote 4/10.. got people to bite but cant give higher as its too easy to troll about t2 bpos.
Lady Ayeipsia Di-Tron Heavy Industries Cascade Imminent 15	Posted - 2012.01.06 18:57:00 - [34] - Quote Hey op, why no thread complaining about your lack of an armagedon imperial issue? I'd much rather have one of those to sell than a t2 bpo! At least a lot more people had a chance to win a t2 bpo.
Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 6	Posted - 2012.01.06 19:02:00 - [35] - Quote Lady Ayeipsia wrote: Hey op, why no thread complaining about your lack of an armagedon imperial issue? I'd much rather have one of those to sell than a t2 bpo! At least a lot more people had a chance to win a t2 bpo. I've yet to find one at the gate of almost every sytems I jump in unlike a TECH II BPO which is at the end of a lot of invention jobs insta popping my success before I've even finished inventing nevermind manufacturing, offering no other alternative but to stop inventing in that item even if there is a market for it.
Velicitia Open Designs 437	Posted - 2012.01.06 19:22:00 - [36] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: Lady Ayeipsia wrote: Hey op, why no thread complaining about your lack of an armagedon imperial issue? I'd much rather have one of those to sell than a t2 bpo! At least a lot more people had a chance to win a t2 bpo. I've yet to find one at the gate of almost every sytems I jump in unlike a TECH II BPO which is at the end of a lot of invention jobs insta popping my success before I've even finished inventing nevermind manufacturing, offering no other alternative but to stop inventing in that item even if there is a market for it. so, just so we all know what item(s) to avoid, what are you inventing where the market is commanded by T2 BPO?
Lady Ayeipsia Di-Tron Heavy Industries Cascade Imminent 15	Posted - 2012.01.06 19:35:00 - [37] - Quote If the op says t2 armor plates, I will not stop laughing for days.
Roscada We love Egg 8	Posted - 2012.01.06 19:44:00 - [38] - Quote Jarnis McPieksu wrote: T2 BPOs are irrelevant. They produce a mere fraction of the supply of anything used widely. Not true. T2 BPOs are one of the primary sources of forum tears.
Velicitia Open Designs 437	Posted - 2012.01.06 19:49:00 - [39] - Quote Lady Ayeipsia wrote: If the op says t2 armor plates, I will not stop laughing for days. there are T2 armour plates? [/fake shock]
Cyniac Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance 102	Posted - 2012.01.06 19:51:00 - [40] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: CCP Stem the flow of leaving players remove TECH II BPO even if you have to sacrifice some bitter vets who have not financially supported this game since PLEX became avalible. I have known many people who have left EVE for many reasons, some which were external to the game, while others were due to the nature of EVE itself or the various hiccups CCP has been throwing our way, or just simple good old burnout. However, I have yet to know of a single person who has left EVE because they could not live with the notion of T2 BPOs - not a single one. So... where again is that flow of people leaving you are talking about?

Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 6	Posted - 2012.01.06 19:52:00 - [41] - Quote Velicitia wrote: Lady Ayeipsia wrote: If the op says t2 armor plates, I will not stop laughing for days. there are T2 armour plates? [/fake shock] Who ever got the T2 plate BPO did get the worst trolling that CCP has dished out, that much is true.
Jarnis McPieksu Aliastra Gallente Federation 173	Posted - 2012.01.06 19:54:00 - [42] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: Velicitia wrote: Lady Ayeipsia wrote: If the op says t2 armor plates, I will not stop laughing for days. there are T2 armour plates? [/fake shock] Who ever got the T2 plate BPO did get the worst trolling that CCP has dished out, that much is true. Until... one day... CCP suddenly reworks them and they become the hottest item on Jita for the first few weeks (until invention guys catch up with the demand). Granted, buying one of those BPOs right now is like buying junk bonds... yeah, you might get epic returns one day but most likely you are just pouring ISK into a black hole and buying a paperweight.
Tommy Shanks 0	Posted - 2012.01.06 20:01:00 - [43] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: Lady Ayeipsia wrote: As an active industrialist, t2 bpos have no impact on my inventions or construction. I have found t2 warp disruprs, warp scrams, heavy missile launchers, and bombers all to be more than profitable enough for my needs. Even scourge fury and scorch ammo is profitable through invention. I have done the math on other modules and ammo, and there is ample profit to be made. So sorry, I view t2 bpos as a non entity. They have no impact on my business, so why should i care if the exist or not? Heck, this is like being upset because you did not get a zephyr or another gift ship. Get over it, find a good niche for your industrial activities and move along. Well I'm glad you find your niche i was looking to produce some items but found that the very cost of invetion at max skills was going to cost more isk than the market was currently selling at due to an owner of a TECH II BPO who has pretty much been given the right to print ISK by CCP. What item? What market is this in? How much is the item selling for? Me'thinks I smell profit out of all this bulllshit...
Tasko Pal Spallated Garniferous Schist 171	Posted - 2012.01.06 21:24:00 - [44] - Quote Out of curiosity, does anyone in this thread actually oppose the keeping of T2 BPOs in the game? I just see a lot of trolling. Maybe this is a sign that this particular nonsense is no longer the fad.
Velicitia Open Designs 441	Posted - 2012.01.06 21:37:00 - [45] - Quote Newbies who don't know any better seem to be the only ones who care about their existence. I don't mind them, beyond "I want one, and don't have one".
Toku Jiang Jiang Laboratories and Discovery 1	Posted - 2012.01.06 21:40:00 - [46] - Quote You clearly have not played this game very long. T2 BPO's used to have huge profit margins, but ever since invention circa 2007 the T2 market dropped like a stone and has stabilized for the most part at either slim to zero profit compared to what it was. The only increases you really see in prices of T2 goods are spikes in materials for one reason or another or a temporary shortage in supply. At this point T2 BPO's have essentially little impact on the market due to the vast number of inventors. I guarantee you that if CCP pulled all the T2 BPO's from the game you would hardly notice a price change in anything. I hate to tell you this Timmy, but there are a load of idiots out there who produce stuff and sell it for below "cost", and by cost I mean you couldn't buy the raw materials and make the item for less than what they are selling for. It's true in both T1 and T2 production. You have to look and find the T1 and T2 products that can actually turn a profit, and unless you are going to run a huge series of production lines you aren't going to win against major production producers in this game even with a T2 BPO. The reason being is that these people are most likely buying moon goo in bulk and creating their own materials cheaper than you can buy them. This is a game of economics you are talking about here. You have to adapt or lose profit. You have to figure out a way to beat the competition or find a new product to produce simple as that.
Driven Qantium Superior Eve Engineering 1	Posted - 2012.01.07 00:54:00 - [47] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: When are CCP going to realise that removing TECH II BPO will increasce player numbers? Sure you might get some bitter Vet BPO owners rage quiting and dragging a couple of friends along but surely it's better to lose these players who do not pay to play than seeing hundreds of noobs rage quit after finding out the hard way about invention and how futile it is to compete against certain Tech II BPO's? CCP Stem the flow of leaving players remove TECH II BPO even if you have to sacrifice some bitter vets who have not financially supported this game since PLEX became avalible. You win the official prize for beating the dead horse into a pulp. Don't you realize that t2 prices would skyrocket - same demand, less supply.....silly little boy. Besides anyone who blindly invents things people don't want deserves to lose money....please rage quit now....and have a nice day.
Cindy Marco Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2012.01.07 02:20:00 - [48] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: When are CCP going to realise that removing TECH II BPO will increasce player numbers? Sure you might get some bitter Vet BPO owners rage quiting and dragging a couple of friends along but surely it's better to lose these players who do not pay to play than seeing hundreds of noobs rage quit after finding out the hard way about invention and how futile it is to compete against certain Tech II BPO's? CCP Stem the flow of leaving players remove TECH II BPO even if you have to sacrifice some bitter vets who have not financially supported this game since PLEX became avalible. The solution is obvious. If you think they are great, buy a couple. And as for Plex players not supporting the game? LOL, figure out where plex come from. I assure your there isn't a BPO.
flakeys Arkham Innovations 181	Posted - 2012.01.07 10:10:00 - [49] - Quote Cindy Marco wrote: The solution is obvious. If you think they are great, buy a couple. . If you had not noticed on his rage level , either he is trolling or dishing out to those who have the isk to buy a T2 bpo , simply because he's a poor smug and can't cope with that.
Joshua Aivoras Tech IV Industries Pandorum Invictus 185	Posted - 2012.01.07 12:06:00 - [50] - Quote These never end well, just lock it.

Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 7	Posted - 2012.01.07 14:11:00 - [51] - Quote flakeys wrote: Cindy Marco wrote: The solution is obvious. If you think they are great, buy a couple. . If you had not noticed on his rage level , either he is trolling or dishing out to those who have the isk to buy a T2 bpo , simply because he's a poor smug and can't cope with that. Stop making out that BPO tech II cost billions they did not. Corps and certain players were gifted them for free and others won them in a corrupt lottery. To new players reading this don't belive the bitter vet bullshit about how TECH II BPO does not effect the game it's 100% bullshit other wise they'd not emo rage so much at the thought of giving them up. 90% of the posts in this thread are an attempt to downplay TECH II BPO. CCP is legendery for giving out unfair advantages to it's pet corps and it's refusal to remove BPO TECH II which are UNFAIR further enforces that fact. Remove TECH II BPO, level the unfair playing field make these bitter vets have to work for the right to produce Tech II like every other new player out there suffering terrible isk costs using invention.
Serajasko Space Research and Innovation 2	Posted - 2012.01.07 14:20:00 - [52] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: flakeys wrote: Cindy Marco wrote: The solution is obvious. If you think they are great, buy a couple. . If you had not noticed on his rage level , either he is trolling or dishing out to those who have the isk to buy a T2 bpo , simply because he's a poor smug and can't cope with that. Stop making out that BPO tech II cost billions they did not. Corps and certain players were gifted them for free and others won them in a corrupt lottery. To new players reading this don't belive the bitter vet bullshit about how TECH II BPO does not effect the game it's 100% bullshit other wise they'd not emo rage so much at the thought of giving them up. 90% of the posts in this thread are an attempt to downplay TECH II BPO. CCP is legendery for giving out unfair advantages to it's pet corps and it's refusal to remove BPO TECH II which are UNFAIR further enforces that fact. Remove TECH II BPO, level the unfair playing field make these bitter vets have to work for the right to produce Tech II like every other new player out there suffering terrible isk costs using invention. To quote: "Dont worry, be happy; It is just a game!" AFAIK this quote sums it all up :)
Salpad Carebears with Attitude 15	Posted - 2012.01.07 14:23:00 - [53] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: Well I'm glad you find your niche i was looking to produce some items but found that the very cost of invetion at max skills was going to cost more isk than the market was currently selling at due to an owner of a TECH II BPO who has pretty much been given the right to print ISK by CCP. T2 BPOs may be bad in principle, but in practice, most if not all T2 tems have dropped drastically in price, relative to when I started playing almost 5 full years ago. Most likely this drop is due to CCP changing the mechanics so that there is an alternative to owning a BPO if one wants to produce T2 items. Invention, I presume? Look at Hulk costs. 5 years ago they were insanely expensive compared to now. Same goes for T2 cargo expander modules. And I'm sure others can give many more examples.
Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 7	Posted - 2012.01.07 14:37:00 - [54] - Quote Salpad wrote: Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: Well I'm glad you find your niche i was looking to produce some items but found that the very cost of invetion at max skills was going to cost more isk than the market was currently selling at due to an owner of a TECH II BPO who has pretty much been given the right to print ISK by CCP. T2 BPOs may be bad in principle, but in practice, most if not all T2 tems have dropped drastically in price, relative to when I started playing almost 5 full years ago. Most likely this drop is due to CCP changing the mechanics so that there is an alternative to owning a BPO if one wants to produce T2 items. Invention, I presume? Look at Hulk costs. 5 years ago they were insanely expensive compared to now. Same goes for T2 cargo expander modules. And I'm sure others can give many more examples. That's because the owners of TECH II BPO have researched the ** out of them in those 5 years allowing them to further hammer down the price completely undercutting all other competition in certain fields of TECH II. CCP has gifted certain players the right to bypass 1 whole stage of tech II production for free for zero, zilch,nothing. ''Hey we like you, here have this it will make printing ISK that much easier and ** off all of our new players who want to produce tech II but can't because you can now undercut them with this magic item that never ever ever ever runs out., heck it can't even be stolen, you can lock it away but don't worry we'll still magically let everyone you want be able to use it even though it's locked away''.
Scrapyard Bob EVE University Ivy League 586	Posted - 2012.01.07 14:48:00 - [55] - Quote Tasko Pal wrote: Out of curiosity, does anyone in this thread actually oppose the keeping of T2 BPOs in the game? I just see a lot of trolling. Maybe this is a sign that this particular nonsense is no longer the fad. Not interested in seeing T2 BPOs eliminated. People paid for them, let them keep them. Other then a few markets (low-end mining crystals and a few other low-demand items), BPO owners can't keep up with demand. Their primary advantage is not having to deal with the click-fest that is Invention, not having to buy Datacores, and the ability to setup a week/month of production at a time. The fact that they can make them cheaper is offset by the limitation that even with perfect ME, a T2 BPO owner is limited in how many they can produce per month - and the inventors are constantly nibbling at their margins. But maybe let the ME/PE of the T1 BPC affect the ME/PE of the invented T2 BPC. Such as the ME level of the T2 BPC being calculated as (-5 + sqrt(T1 BPC ME)). Which would do interesting things in some of the market segments and have no effect in other market segments.
Cindy Marco Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2012.01.07 14:59:00 - [56] - Quote Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: flakeys wrote: Cindy Marco wrote: The solution is obvious. If you think they are great, buy a couple. . If you had not noticed on his rage level , either he is trolling or dishing out to those who have the isk to buy a T2 bpo , simply because he's a poor smug and can't cope with that. Stop making out that BPO tech II cost billions they did not. Corps and certain players were gifted them for free and others won them in a corrupt lottery. To new players reading this don't belive the bitter vet bullshit about how TECH II BPO does not effect the game it's 100% bullshit other wise they'd not emo rage so much at the thought of giving them up. 90% of the posts in this thread are an attempt to downplay TECH II BPO. CCP is legendery for giving out unfair advantages to it's pet corps and it's refusal to remove BPO TECH II which are UNFAIR further enforces that fact. Remove TECH II BPO, level the unfair playing field make these bitter vets have to work for the right to produce Tech II like every other new player out there suffering terrible isk costs using invention. You keep saying its an unfair advantage, but how? They weren't given out for free as you keep saying except for the T20 scandal. You had to grind the standings, train the skills, and pick the agent. Its not an old player vs new player issue. I was playing then and I wasn't given one "for free." I didn't get one at all, and I'm totally fine with that. Players put in the work that was required at the time for a shot at a T2 bpo. By the same logic officer and dead space mods are unfair. Someone might have gotten a free officer mod free once. Maybe even 5 years ago. They use the same crappy rng that we've always had. Most people will never loot an Estamel or Gist X-type mod. Should they all be pulled from the game? Someone got one free 5 years ago so everyone should get as many as they want for free, or they must be removed from the game. Sure I could buy an Estamel Invuln from someone who was lucky enough to get one. But I don't want too, its not fair.
Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 7	Posted - 2012.01.07 16:34:00 - [57] - Quote Scrap yard BOB. No, players did not pay for them, CCP should reinburse the agent research points to the current tech II BPO owner but that is it. If you buy stolen goods the police will seize them and not reinburse you a penny and let's face it TECH II BPO is stealling off every new TECH II producer in the game. CCP remove TECH II BPO and the unfair advantage that you gave to your pet players and for ever close the door to one of the darkest chapters in EVE history that is still ''Inet infamous'' to this day or continue to favour specific players alienating your new player base and discouraging them from subscribing further. It's completely insane it appears CCP does not want a larger player base but just to keep a small group happy by giving them massive advantages at every turn.
Emma Royd Maddled Gommerils 64	Posted - 2012.01.07 18:04:00 - [58] - Quote Brewlar, you're not even 3 months old on that character, yet you come on the forum spouting on how CCP should pander to your wants? I'm over 4 years old, and couldn't care less that people have T2 BPO's, or more shiny ships, or more isk than me, I play for playings sake, not to amass a huge bank balance. There is a great saying used in life, and in EvE, Adapt or Die, if you can't make the uber isk you seek by the means you're trying then try a different way. T2 BPO's and their removal is a dead issue, coming on with arguments that have been done to death many times before will not change things, if CCP wanted to remove them then they would have done so. You could very well argue that someone who has been paying eve since 2003 has an insurmountable advantage over someone who has just started, as they've got a huge skills difference, CCP have done a few things to make it easier for the new player to get the essential skills faster in the times, accelerated learnings, implants, tutorials that practically throw skillbooks at you, but as a new player, you will always technically be at a disadvantage compared to someone who has been doing the same thing who has had the chance to build up skills, experience, knowledge and standings with corporations and relationships with players to give them a better edge. So what do you propose ccp does about this situation, scrap skills and let everyone play 'god mode'? and how often should a reset of assets and wallets be performed so people don't gain an advantage? EvE is dynamic, some people have lots of isk, some don't. Some people find it really easy to make isk, some don't. If you can't make isk on Product A then try making isk on Product B, if that fails, try Product C. As for players quitting because they can't make isk on T2 products as easily as someone who ows a T2 BPO, get real, where on earth are you getting your information from, are you privy to the information people type in to their comments box when they unsubscribe? I suspect that more industrialists quit purely because of the botter problem devaluing personal mining to the point that everyone thinks you're insane to do it. To me it smacks of jealousy and wanting something that old players had a chance of getting in a lottery. Sure there was a limited problem with the T20 thing, but that was a nearly 5 years ago. You know, when hulks were 600 million isk+ and isk wasn't as plentiful as it is now with incursions etc, owing a hulk was a big deal then, and something the industrial people aspired to, now they're a 1/3 of that price at most, even dropping to around the 130mil mark at times. Surely it's time to let sleeping dogs lie, accept the fact that people have more than you, accept that fact that you've got more stuff than others, and just get on with the game (hint, bolded the important bit)
Tommy Shanks 0	Posted - 2012.01.07 18:07:00 - [59] - Quote Which market? Which item? How much is it selling for? Very simple questions - why can't you answer them? EVE fiction forum is that way
Jenny Hong Cat Scratch Fever III 0	Posted - 2012.01.07 18:12:00 - [60] - Quote Jarnis McPieksu wrote: You are aware of course that copying T2 BPOs (per license run) takes longer than manufacturing with a T2 BPO (per unit), right? Additionally, T2 BPO copying takes additional materials. It isn't free like T1 BPO copying. So anyone who cares about profit isn't going to use them for copying. While I was not one of those actively complaining, you have explained to me why this isn't an issue after all. Thank you, Jarnis.



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