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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
172
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Posted - 2012.01.07 18:16:00 -
[61] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:let's face it TECH II BPO is stealling off every new TECH II producer in the game.
Wait, I thought you were against T2 BPOs. That'd be a sweet thing to have in game. I'd boast about it in my sig.
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Jenny Hong
Cat Scratch Fever III
0
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Posted - 2012.01.07 18:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
Cindy Marco wrote:
And as for Plex players not supporting the game? LOL, figure out where plex come from. I assure your there isn't a BPO.
Cindy, this is such an important point, I can't say it strongly enough. CCP is one of the very few game companies that has thought carefully and intelligently about the whole issue of "gold buying".
Congratulations. You have put your finger right on the central point of the whole argument. |
Heun zero
Aegis Evolution Soldiers 0f Fortune
31
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Posted - 2012.01.07 18:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Well I'm glad you find your niche i was looking to produce some items but found that the very cost of invetion at max skills was going to cost more isk than the market was currently selling at due to an owner of a TECH II BPO who has pretty much been given the right to print ISK by CCP.
An how do you figure it is because of a t2 BPO holder somewhere??? It is far more likely that your fellow inventors are terrible at math, to lazy to do math etc. And thus selling their products below their manufacutring value. That is what is really messing with invention profit.
Stupid players have a far bigger impact then t2 bpo owners....
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Hamatitio
Aperture Harmonics K162
64
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Posted - 2012.01.07 20:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
Assuming he even invented a module (most likely a troll)
I'd wager that he bought all completed materials off of sell orders, eating into his own profitability. Rather than putting up buyl orders for raw goods and producing when it is prudent :).
I played when the t2 lotto was around. No i wasn't one of the lemmings that put it all into Starship command hoping for a ship BPO. And I still didn't get one. I'm not bitter.
For the vast majority of items in EVE, invention is what sets the prices. If you can't pull a profit it is due to one thing:
You are lazy. Too lazy to use buy orders, too lazy to do research.
T2 BPO owners sell for the price that is set by the invetioneers, and are offered extra profits above what those running invention get (as they dont have to buy datacores, and can use a researched BPO).
This is negated by the fact that 1 t2 BPO can only be run in 1 manufacturing slot. Someone inventing on 10 manufacturing lines will make more isk per month than the person running 1 T2 BPO. What about someone running 10 T2 BPOs? Well this person would more than likely have 60+ Billion isk in assets. At that point, this person would make more isk station trading in jita, than by running those 10 T2 BPOs.
What am I getting at here? Stop complaining its fine. |
Harleigh
Genbuku. Nulli Secunda
24
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Posted - 2012.01.07 20:39:00 -
[65] - Quote
Well as the owner of a bunch of T2 BPO's I can tell you this:
T2 BPO's aren't huge money printing machines. Most are barely profitable due to the market values set by invention, and some are less then you would think as the manufacturing times are so long (like command ships) that you are nerfed by only having 1 build at a time. I will admit there are some profitable ones out there but most are like my pilgrim print that averages about 1.5 ish bil / month in profit.
The ones that really profit are the ones that got them for free in the initial lotteries ( I got a couple) and are now reselling to collectors( of which I am one).
2 weeks ago I spent 60 B + on a BPO (Crusader) that makes a whopping 600 mil a month. Am I stupid? Well, yes but I have also played the game since 03 and have isk laying around that I have no other real use for so I collect things. I thought crusader was cool looking and might look even more awesome when they V3 it later this year but other then that it sits in a hanger just as part of the collection of all things amarr :)
It is collectors like me looking for the rare things in eve that make the prices what they are cause I am not alone and certainly not the richest. For people like me, T2 BPO's are like the Picaso's of the eve world. Does it make sense that people spend millions on a piece of canvas with a bit of paint on it ? Nope... but as long as there are collectors there will be percieved value.
There isn't a hell of a lot for us old vets in this game, leave our Picaso's alone :P My bucket list is done, I have done pretty much all there is to do in game (built several outposts, run alliances, fleet fights, built and flown supers for years , etc, etc), so is it really that bad that we spend stupid amounts of ISK on a blue box in our hangers ? :)
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Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
244
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Posted - 2012.01.07 21:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
Lauren Hellfury wrote:Look everyone! A dead horse!!
Pass me a bat?
Oh no. THIS is not a dead horse. AT ALL.
T2 BPO's were an unfair disaster from the word GO.
Once I found out the 'deal', I sold all my T1 BPO's and stopped Invention and Manufacturing utterly.
The time spent moving all the crap around to build and then make only 7 Mill Profit on a FREAKING CRANE ??????
And they can Research those T2 BPOs down to more like a 25,000,000 profit.
I can't even begin to compete.
Yet another thing ruined by CCP like the Great PI Nerf of 2011.
Is there going to be anything LEFT to do in-game anymore that is WORTH doing ?? PvP even gets old sometimes..................... OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Jurinak
Galcom Phi
0
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Posted - 2012.01.07 23:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
Heun zero wrote:[quote=Brewlar Kuvakei]
Stupid players have a far bigger impact then t2 bpo owners....
Maybe we should remove stupid players , but who will open the next "remove T2 BPO" Thread then?? |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
7
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Posted - 2012.01.07 23:46:00 -
[68] - Quote
Jurinak wrote: Maybe we should remove stupid players , but who will open the next "remove T2 BPO" Thread then??
I know this topic is a reccurent theme on this forum for the last 4 years, it's as if there is maybe something wrong with TECH II Blue prints and more importantly with CCP's gifting of items to allready influencial players. Oh wait everything in EVE is fine the game is surging with new players and CCP's future is looking bright.
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Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
327
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Posted - 2012.01.08 01:46:00 -
[69] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Jurinak wrote: Maybe we should remove stupid players , but who will open the next "remove T2 BPO" Thread then??
I know this topic is a reccurent theme on this forum for the last 4 years, it's as if there is maybe something wrong with TECH II Blue prints and more importantly with CCP's gifting of items to allready influencial players. Oh wait everything in EVE is fine the game is surging with new players and CCP's future is looking bright. actually eve is one of the few MMOs that has been steadily gaining subs over the past few years so maybe you are just a ******. |
Aldous Borrn
Originated Saviors
1
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Posted - 2012.01.08 05:42:00 -
[70] - Quote
Persistent troll is persistent.
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Lauren Hellfury wrote:Look everyone! A dead horse!!
Pass me a bat? Oh no. THIS is not a dead horse. AT ALL. T2 BPO's were an unfair disaster from the word GO. Once I found out the 'deal', I sold all my T1 BPO's and stopped Invention and Manufacturing utterly. The time spent moving all the crap around to build and then make only 7 Mill Profit on a FREAKING CRANE ?????? And they can Research those T2 BPOs down to more like a 25,000,000 profit. I can't even begin to compete. Yet another thing ruined by CCP like the Great PI Nerf of 2011. Is there going to be anything LEFT to do in-game anymore that is WORTH doing ?? PvP even gets old sometimes.....................
...alt?
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Harleigh
Genbuku. Nulli Secunda
24
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Posted - 2012.01.08 06:17:00 -
[71] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Lauren Hellfury wrote:Look everyone! A dead horse!!
Pass me a bat? Oh no. THIS is not a dead horse. AT ALL. T2 BPO's were an unfair disaster from the word GO. Once I found out the 'deal', I sold all my T1 BPO's and stopped Invention and Manufacturing utterly. The time spent moving all the crap around to build and then make only 7 Mill Profit on a FREAKING CRANE ?????? And they can Research those T2 BPOs down to more like a 25,000,000 profit. I can't even begin to compete. Yet another thing ruined by CCP like the Great PI Nerf of 2011. Is there going to be anything LEFT to do in-game anymore that is WORTH doing ?? PvP even gets old sometimes.....................
Yeah but the point your missing is that the crane bpo owner can build 1 every what 24 hours or so ? The inventor can invent several at a time so your 7 mill profit x say even only 5 invention jobs = 35 mil in profit ....
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Regam Voss
House of Voss
10
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Posted - 2012.01.08 06:29:00 -
[72] - Quote
psdigjaeovhrovuern oer vroubheoruvh zvn v48hvr8hvznvz 4 o48y 4zb48 h48 TECHII BPO'S liauvb rvrivuz lkr74yg 9487 3y4g hvhnzore hgiuh zurehgzour gezorgh g348g TECHII BPO's ;aojvhnoruvh rvuy vy [vpsdigjaeovhrovuern oer vroubheoruvh zvn v48hvr8hvznvz 4 o48y 4zb48 h48 TECHII BPO'S liauvb rvrivuz lkr74yg 9487 3y4g hvhnzore hgiuh zurehgzour gezorgh g348g TECHII BPO's ;aojvhnoruvh rvuy vy [v
OP IS DUMB!!!! |
Clementina
The Scope
44
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Posted - 2012.01.08 06:43:00 -
[73] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei, you seem to be allowing Tech 2 Blue Print Originials to have unnecessary lordship over your life and your game (Your posts are monaical about these things and you insist on capitalizing them with every mention). Tech 2 bpo's are not the sole way to wealth in Eve. Most of the wealthy have never held a Tech 2 bpo. Also not every tech 2 item has been hollowed out by bpo holders. There is an increasing number of tech 2 items which have never had a tech 2 bpo for them. Also even the modules which were controlled by tech 2 monopolies in the old days can have good prices for people willing to produce them. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
182
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Posted - 2012.01.08 08:21:00 -
[74] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Salpad wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Well I'm glad you find your niche i was looking to produce some items but found that the very cost of invetion at max skills was going to cost more isk than the market was currently selling at due to an owner of a TECH II BPO who has pretty much been given the right to print ISK by CCP. T2 BPOs may be bad in principle, but in practice, most if not all T2 tems have dropped drastically in price, relative to when I started playing almost 5 full years ago. Most likely this drop is due to CCP changing the mechanics so that there is an alternative to owning a BPO if one wants to produce T2 items. Invention, I presume? Look at Hulk costs. 5 years ago they were insanely expensive compared to now. Same goes for T2 cargo expander modules. And I'm sure others can give many more examples. That's because the owners of TECH II BPO have researched the **** out of them in those 5 years allowing them to further hammer down the price completely undercutting all other competition in certain fields of TECH II. CCP has gifted certain players the right to bypass 1 whole stage of tech II production for free for zero, zilch,nothing. ''Hey we like you, here have this it will make printing ISK that much easier and **** off all of our new players who want to produce tech II but can't because you can now undercut them with this magic item that never ever ever ever runs out., heck it can't even be stolen, you can lock it away but don't worry we'll still magically let everyone you want be able to use it even though it's locked away''.
You are one sad idiot or a troll .. i hope not a troll as i do like a sad idiot now and then.
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
174
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Posted - 2012.01.08 16:25:00 -
[75] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
The time spent moving all the crap around to build and then make only 7 Mill Profit on a FREAKING CRANE ??????
Sounds like you were doing invention wrong then. Good thing you quit. Of course, you might have sounded a bit different, if you were making 700 mil profit on 100 cranes, but that's your choice. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
184
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Posted - 2012.01.09 15:22:00 -
[76] - Quote
So go Invent T2 ships that have no BPOs in existence for them?
Heavy Interdictors Electronic Assault Frigates Tech 2 Battleships (Black Ops, Marauders) Jump Freighters
ZERO TECH 2 BPOs EXIST for these ships. Go go, no BPO competition. All these were added to the game after T2 BPO lottery ended.
(There are also plenty of modules that are like this, for example all the new Tech 2 modules added in Crucible, for starters).
Also no BPOs for Tech 3 cruisers either... tho the manufacturing process for those (+subsystems) is fairly complex. Probably too complex for you. |
Ameron Phinard
7
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Posted - 2012.01.09 16:35:00 -
[77] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:So go Invent T2 ships that have no BPOs in existence for them? ... Electronic Assault Frigates
Probably not the best idea. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
185
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Posted - 2012.01.09 17:08:00 -
[78] - Quote
Ameron Phinard wrote:Jarnis McPieksu wrote:So go Invent T2 ships that have no BPOs in existence for them? ... Electronic Assault Frigates
Probably not the best idea.
Hey, I didn't say all these were mega isk printers. Just that they had no T2 BPO competition because no BPOs of these exist.
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mama guru
Evolution
22
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Posted - 2012.01.09 17:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
T2 BPO's are profitable, but no where near as crazy as when you could have 5 million profit out of a 50k production cost as was the case with Cap Recharger II's for a while during 2005. With the addition of inventions and Tech getting boosted much later the majority of the profit in the T2 market lies in simply selling moon gold which is mined passively and emptied once a week. If anything CCP should not nerf BPO's but rather curbstomp r64 moons.
______
EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's to hard you are to weak. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
186
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Posted - 2012.01.09 18:19:00 -
[80] - Quote
mama guru wrote:T2 BPO's are profitable, but no where near as crazy as when you could have 5 million profit out of a 50k production cost as was the case with Cap Recharger II's for a while during 2005. With the addition of inventions and Tech getting boosted much later the majority of the profit in the T2 market lies in simply selling moon gold which is mined passively and emptied once a week. If anything CCP should not nerf BPO's but rather curbstomp r64 moons.
Technetium is R32.
It is the outlier because when CCP rebalanced moon goo usage across T2 production, they did :lolccp: math and the end result was that Technetium became the major bottleneck.
If they take another stab at it and do a bit more math, they might balance it out one day... which would probably lead to R32s and R64s both being somewhat valuable but none being stupidly expensive like Technetium is today.
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Xylem Viliana
Dust Bunnies Emergent Avionics
26
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Posted - 2012.01.09 18:36:00 -
[81] - Quote
I cant be bothered reading all 4 pages but read the first few, if this has been said already or the conversation has moved on then... Oh well
Anyway If CCP remove t2 BPO's then they may aswel remove invention as in 99% sure most of the t2 is from invention. and if all t2 is removed from even to pander to new pilots they may as well remove the meta items as heaven forbid the price on them will go up and the new pilots cant afford them,
And if you remove all the meta as well why bother with skills at all, everyone has the ability for all things and it then is the players abilities VS the other players and nothing else. which kills eve.
So no leave the BPO's alone.
Yes I went on a tangent of possible speculation deal with it. |
Carniflex
StarHunt
6
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Posted - 2012.01.11 12:03:00 -
[82] - Quote
Over the past half decade or so all arguments against and for the T2 BPO removal have been made.
At this point this is game design question - as any viable argument from both sides have been already made (several times). It is no secret that in my opinion they should be removed. Arguments (and counterarguments) can be found using EVE-Search so I shall not type them again here. |
Gravecall
Nordic Innovations BLACK-MARK
0
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Posted - 2012.01.11 13:10:00 -
[83] - Quote
Harleigh wrote:Well as the owner of a bunch of T2 BPO's I can tell you this:
T2 BPO's aren't huge money printing machines. Most are barely profitable due to the market values set by invention, and some are less then you would think as the manufacturing times are so long (like command ships) that you are nerfed by only having 1 build at a time. I will admit there are some profitable ones out there but most are like my pilgrim print that averages about 1.5 ish bil / month in profit.
The ones that really profit are the ones that got them for free in the initial lotteries ( I got a couple) and are now reselling to collectors( of which I am one).
2 weeks ago I spent 60 B + on a BPO (Crusader) that makes a whopping 600 mil a month. Am I stupid? Well, yes but I have also played the game since 03 and have isk laying around that I have no other real use for so I collect things. I thought crusader was cool looking and might look even more awesome when they V3 it later this year but other then that it sits in a hanger just as part of the collection of all things amarr :)
It is collectors like me looking for the rare things in eve that make the prices what they are cause I am not alone and certainly not the richest. For people like me, T2 BPO's are like the Picaso's of the eve world. Does it make sense that people spend millions on a piece of canvas with a bit of paint on it ? Nope... but as long as there are collectors there will be percieved value.
There isn't a hell of a lot for us old vets in this game, leave our Picaso's alone :P My bucket list is done, I have done pretty much all there is to do in game (built several outposts, run alliances, fleet fights, built and flown supers for years , etc, etc), so is it really that bad that we spend stupid amounts of ISK on a blue box in our hangers ? :)
+1
I own 4 T2 small ammo BPOs, I've had them for a while now but they haven't come even remotely close to making back their cost (which looking at sell orders the asking price looks to have gone up ~50-75% since I bought these, could sell them but I just like having them), I mostly bought them just as shiny (well, not really shiny, more of a laminated paper look) collectables since I had the isk. I have other ways of making far more isk/unit time, heck even mission grinding pays out better, as T2 he prices some folks seek for their produce really leave me thinking the old "I made it so it was free" mindset came in for PI products and minerals needed for them. Then you'll also have people taking the same view of the datacores they are given, whereas I can just wait until I have a large number and then sell them all to people who have the sense to realize the datacores are not zero cost items when calculating your production costs.
Reality is that if the devs were to remove them they'd need to compensate the owners quite generously to prevent a lynching at the following annual fan-fest, this in turn would make the rich become even richer with respect to the less rich => whatever the flavour of the month ships/items are would become massively more expensive as we look for a new collectable and then we'd have others demanding that those items/ships be removed or additional sources be added, bringing us right back to the same standoff that currently exists with the T2 BPOs. I think the real problem is that some people just don't understand how capitalism works...
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Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
136
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Posted - 2012.01.12 07:58:00 -
[84] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:It is quite strange that CCP allows tech II BPO to continue to exist after gifting them free to a select few players. This has alienated the majority of players who were not gifted items for free in a corrupt lottery. CCP is litteraly pumping ISK into the hands of select players while losing out on RL $ as new players refuse to subscribe to a game that gives massive unfair advantages to an older player.
I don't know why CCP commits to this Bizzaro RMT to support players that do not financially contribute to the game and to a system that deters new players from further subscription. Well hopefully CCP will finally do something as the player base online slips below the 20K mark.
My God, you are tripping.
Could you share whatever it is you're on? It's clearly good stuff
I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count? |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
136
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Posted - 2012.01.12 08:02:00 -
[85] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Further more current game mechanics allow other pilot's to access and use your BPO without any risk of it being stolen. This is a pure joke on the part of CCP.
''Here use my item but don't steal it.''
let's do the same for ships and all other items then aswell as the inablility to steal BPO's
Tech II BPO zero effort, zero isk investment and zero risk. Massive rewards = Broken.
Ummmm...what?
Seriously, mate, what are you on?
I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count? |
Sutskop
PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus
39
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Posted - 2012.01.12 11:49:00 -
[86] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Jurinak wrote: Maybe we should remove stupid players , but who will open the next "remove T2 BPO" Thread then??
I know this topic is a reccurent theme on this forum for the last 4 years, it's as if there is maybe something wrong with TECH II Blue prints and more importantly with CCP's gifting of items to allready influencial players.
No, this only proves that we didn't run out of stupid players yet. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
314
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Posted - 2012.01.12 12:39:00 -
[87] - Quote
Two tech II BPOs succesfully removed. |
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
107
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Posted - 2012.01.12 13:08:00 -
[88] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:When are CCP going to realise that removing TECH II BPO will increasce player numbers? Person from side: what does "T2 BPO" mean and why should i start playing Eve is there will be no those things?
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Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
199
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Posted - 2012.01.12 13:29:00 -
[89] - Quote
I approve this product/service.
Also... IRC.
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