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The "Taunt" module

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Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.06.26 23:58:00 - [1] In every other MMO, the tanking character has a skill or item he can use to draw aggro from NPCs onto himself. But not EVE. I don't know what you'd call such a module from a RP perspective, but with level 5s and gang mission rewards, some ability to taunt NPCs is sorely needed for gang work versus NPCs. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Hellman109 Gallente Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:08:00 - [2] a module that does 1 damage in a large radius would be perfect for this, perhaps a 'smart bomb' setup with 1 damage. That way, you cant kill enemies with it (1 damamge would probably be 0 after resistances) but draw aggro. But would cause concordpwnage possibly... perhaps a smarter one that only hits red enemies.
NoNah Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:31:00 - [3] Thing is eve got a reasoning behind most of its modules and skills. A taunt module does not allow such a thing. You can however simply fit a gun, fire at an npc and await their fury. Most of them wont change target once theyve decided. The brighter ones will however, wich is a good thing, if that makes it to hard for you - stay on the easier missions. Post count: 279517
Aries Acheron Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:43:00 - [4] Edited by: Aries Acheron on 27/06/2007 00:41:49 Sensor dampeners or ECM. Why taunt your target when you can make them useless? Edit: Even though you know, they suck in PVE. But hey, they work fine in PVP? :) ~~~ Action! Suspense! Jita! Eve Tribune
Drazin DawnTreader The Elear	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:59:00 - [5] Edited by: Drazin DawnTreader on 27/06/2007 00:59:08 Well, if CCP decided to do such a thing, to allow a "Main tank" to control aggro vs NPC's they could just add a module that overrides the NPC's targetting system and forces it to lock onto your signature. The user would have to manually target and override every NPC ship he wants locked onto him, so it would atleast take a little while to control the aggro of large rooms of ships. But I don't see this being something CCP will invest any time into since you can scoop drones and your gang can warp out/in to clear aggro. edit I can see this becoming an exploit if everyone in your gang keeps forcing ships to switch target lock, preventing them from firing their weapons - Especially if they allowed it to affect PC ships.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.27 08:40:00 - [6] no.
Loree Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.06.27 08:48:00 - [7] Would it be rude to say : Go Back to WoW. I think not.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.27 08:48:00 - [8] no "to be honest it makes me wonder about the mental state of a person who would join a corp called Space Perverts and Forum warriors"
Nid Hoggur	Posted - 2007.06.27 09:01:00 - [9] In fleet pvp jump in a Scorpion, Rook, falcon or any other EW ship. You will get all agro for sure
Cpt Branko Guardian Heroes	Posted - 2007.06.27 09:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Loree Would it be rude to say : Go Back to WoW. I think not. It wouldn't be rude at all ;P I'm afraid the thing you're asking for doesn't make sense (make someone magically target somebody else? If you want EW, use EW!). "Aggro" menagement is just a way to introduce (fake) complexity in games that revolve around bashing tons of stupid NPCs. If you want to make someone ****ed, player or NPC, shoot him. I'd like, in fact, more intelligent NPCs, who know who's the most dangerous guy and gang up on him. Not reducing them to stupid rats who's aggro you micromenage (and get even a specialied module for it!) to grind them more efficently. I'd prefer them being a challenge. As for normal (read, against players) combat, that is just useless. Imagine you not being to target who you want because someone else is "aggro"-ing you. What's the rationale in that? If you want to mess with someone's ability to lock & shoot, use ECM / damps. Not to mention the exploitability of it ;P
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.06.27 09:55:00 - [11] Originally by: Guillame Herschel In every other MMO, the tanking character has a skill or item he can use to draw aggro from NPCs onto himself. But not EVE. I don't know what you'd call such a module from a RP perspective, but with level 5s and gang mission rewards, some ability to taunt NPCs is sorely needed for gang work versus NPCs. Civilian railgun lol. No ammo. Will aggro rats. BUYING CALDARI NAVY HEAVY MISSILE LAUNCHERS, PAYING WELL, CONVO/MAIL IN-GAME
The Internetz United Society Starfleet Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.06.27 10:25:00 - [12] You mean Improved Cloaking Device II?
errorist Caldari Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 10:54:00 - [13] Originally by: Loree Would it be rude to say : Go Back to WoW. I think not. I agree with this, this module would not be viable cause we are not talking persons/creatures in eve, we are talking "intelligent" pilots, so a taunt module is not possible. If Somethings hard doing its not worth doing, But get going anyway
sandamar Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:05:00 - [14] Quote: In fleet pvp jump in a Scorpion, Rook, falcon or any other EW ship. You will get all agro for sure This i agree totally, if you want taunt module, you can use taunt ship for pvp :) And by the way if you want a detaunt ship just use an apoc, i can tell you that you will be the last one targetted :)
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:21:00 - [15] We have local channel -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Aries Acheron Edited by: Aries Acheron on 27/06/2007 00:41:49 Sensor dampeners or ECM. Why taunt your target when you can make them useless? Edit: Even though you know, they suck in PVE. But hey, they work fine in PVP? :) I think you meant to say target painters ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking
Vasiliyan Aliastra	Posted - 2007.06.27 12:08:00 - [17] Firing a single shot at an unagressed NPC will aggro them to you, as will using an EW module on them such as a target painter. I'm not sure of the effects of ECM on NPCs, whether it causes them to switch targets or not.
Jacob Holland Gallente 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2007.06.27 12:23:00 - [18] If you successfully break an NPC's lock with ECM there is a very good chance that they'll agro youwhich the cycle runs its course. I don't know it the same applies to Damps but it doesn't work with Tracking Disruptors or Target Painters. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2007.06.27 13:18:00 - [19] Oh, but we do, we have quite a few "taunt" modules. Namely every offensive item in the game, to name a few. Go back to WoW. ---------------- Originally by: "Cyberus" cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.
Lucy Skylancer	Posted - 2007.06.27 13:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Guillame Herschel In every other MMO, the tanking character has a skill or item he can use to draw aggro from NPCs onto himself. But not EVE. I don't know what you'd call such a module from a RP perspective, but with level 5s and gang mission rewards, some ability to taunt NPCs is sorely needed for gang work versus NPCs. It contradicts the idea of intelligent enemies. So in my eyes, it's viable for stupid creatures, monsters, stupid aliens, but it wouldn't make really sense to be able to taunt intelligent enemies and tech races. It's a contradiction. Would you ignore the unprotected guy aiming with a shotgun at you, just because another guy in a protector suit shows you his tongue to tease you ?
Car Wars coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.27 13:36:00 - [21] i want an "i win module"
Rigsta Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.06.27 14:25:00 - [22] Edited by: Rigsta on 27/06/2007 14:24:49 I don't think such a module has a place in EVE, though it would be nice to have all the NPCs in a level 5 shooting a carrier instead of a battleship. When doing encounters or expeditions in 0.0, all our participants fit a tank, we bring a logistics cruiser (they are awesome) and at least one other person brings repair drones. This pretty much has us covered. Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
Gabriel Karade Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.27 14:43:00 - [23] no. In fact it's about bloody time the NPC's got an 'upgrade' - namely switching fire, re-introducing tacklers, making Battleships spawns actually dangerous(as per Castor) again. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Tzarr Inzaghi Path of Light R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:10:00 - [24] I like this idea. It does make sense as a form of Electronic Warfare. It could simply be a form of Electronic misdirection. Like a decoy. The enemy targeting computers "think" they are attacking other targets when in fact they have been redirected to the "decoy" The RL military uses all kinds of electronic misdirection, such as chaff, towed decoys, balloons, radar reflectors, winged decoys, stealth, electronic misdirection and jamming. It would give gang set-ups and tactics another interesting dynamic.
Kokoshu Caldari Militaris	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:19:00 - [25] If this ever happens I vote for magical swords and fieeball launchers for my ship. seriosuly no no no never its just not even slightly realisic. I vote for clever NPC's not the ability to wave at one and they "magically target you" htink i made my point
Landrassa Astral Resource Cartel	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:37:00 - [26] Originally by: Kokoshu If this ever happens I vote for magical swords and fieeball launchers for my ship. seriosuly no no no never its just not even slightly realisic. I vote for clever NPC's not the ability to wave at one and they "magically target you" htink i made my point You mean smartbombs and missiles? As for taunting....clones are immune to yo momma jokes, although I'd pay dearly for a module that'd allow me to smack back at Kruul. ------------------------------------------------ As I walk in the Valley of the Omber of Death, I shall have no fear...
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:19:00 - [27] Its called Dooms day device... If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
milinkoee Bastage Incorporated	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:26:00 - [28] Have you tried talking smack to them in local? Bastage, Inc. Worst Pirates Ever!!!
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:27:00 - [29] No offense to the op, but this would be one of those small reasons that makes this game cooler. One of the reasons I got sick of EQ2 and their grouping system was this....There is only one way to do group combat. Everyone target the mob that the tank is on and spam....wait for tank to switch targets and repeat. If you get a good gang together and run a room with 40-50 npcs or more, its just mass chaos and the fun in it is trying to figure out what the hell is going on. If you get a good gang leader, the strategy gets interesting. _______________________________________________ It is people like the OPer which cause MMO games to suck because they have that "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome so developers s
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:50:00 - [30] Why do ppl always want changes that make a game more simple. "Instead of having to think about getting aggro and having to click a few buttons i just want 1 big button to make it more simple" Why? Let's just change the entire mission shall we so instead of having to kill all the npc rats you just click a button that completes the mission and then just have to wait for a timer and your done. Much easier that way. DE
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 16:44:00 - [31] Originally by: DarkElf Why do ppl always want changes that make a game more simple. "Instead of having to think about getting aggro and having to click a few buttons i just want 1 big button to make it more simple" Why? Let's just change the entire mission shall we so instead of having to kill all the npc rats you just click a button that completes the mission and then just have to wait for a timer and your done. Much easier that way. DE Signed It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Bull Frog Amarr Dirt Nap Squad FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.01 20:11:00 - [32] Originally by: Guillame Herschel In every other MMO, the tanking character has a skill or item he can use to draw aggro from NPCs onto himself. But not EVE. I don't know what you'd call such a module from a RP perspective, but with level 5s and gang mission rewards, some ability to taunt NPCs is sorely needed for gang work versus NPCs. Translation: I want a way to make it easier for a macro farm to control the game.
Luucas	Posted - 2007.07.01 21:53:00 - [33] Originally by: Bull Frog Translation: I want a way to make it easier for a macro farm to control the game. Strange, I translated it to be that the OP wanted a more challenging means of controlling agro - a continual balance between taunting and others doing damage. In my opinion this is more realistic than the current, laughable situation where (most of the time) the enemy continues to attempt to break the tank of the first thing it targets. Which often tends to be a tiny ship moving fast and with insane resists. If you want some "realism" in there, you need to introduce the mechanic where the ship will switch targets more often. Of course, you start introducing those sorts of mechanics and you have balancing issues so we're left with the current moronic situation.
Shadowrunner99	Posted - 2007.07.01 22:49:00 - [34] Originally by: Gabriel Karade no. In fact it's about bloody time the NPC's got an 'upgrade' - namely switching fire, re-introducing tacklers, making Battleships spawns actually dangerous(as per Castor) again. I agree managing aggro in this game is such a joke/easy that you dont need this module. In wow where enemies will switch all the time you need tanking skills and items, but here in EvE its a joke.
Tzarr Inzaghi Path of Light R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:19:00 - [35] After re-reading this thread after some time has passed, I think a lot of the disagreement in this thread comes from the fact that posters are talking about two totally different situations, PvP and PvE. I was talking solely about PvP since I don't run missions anymore (too boring). To all the folks who say having electronic decoys/modules that draw fire and fool enemy targeting computers aren't realistic, you are ignorant of RL Electronic Warfare. To those who are saying that this would make running missions easier, perhaps. I hadn't thought of that since I only do PvP combat (except for some ratting/mining). I was thinking only of how cool this could make gang warfare. CCP wants battles to last longer? This would certainly do it. I still think it sounds very neat and could make warfare more fun and varied.
Trillian Mcmillan The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:34:00 - [36] No. However... Improved NPC AI? Yes, please. This works againts controlled agro bw. However... Improved Drone AI/Interface before anything else dealing with AI please.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:36:00 - [37] I have such a module on my Megathron. Come to think of it, I have seven of them. It's called a 425mm Railgun. Perhaps you've heard of it? I target an NPC anywhere within 130km and engage the module. The NPC explodes. All his friends aggro on me. My friends warp in and start shooting the NPCs as they pound on me. Funny how that works. Actually, it would be a lot better if the NPCs recognized that my friend in the Hurricane was doing 10x more damage to them and they should kill him pronto. But hey, that would be too hard.
Cpt Branko Guardian Heroes	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:56:00 - [38] We already have plenty of EW, and it's effective, at least it is on ewar ships. Now you're asking for a mechanic to get permajamming ECM. Without specialised "taunt" ships, we'd have some very unbalanced things you could do in PvP. Imagine if you could only target one damn thing in a fight, which (for example) happens to be a drake with a logistics fixing it, or some monstrosity with 50K armour and a logistics fixing it. You lose, unless you bring a much bigger group. Imagine a taunt-tanker, a logistics, a EWAR ship and a damage ship. The only four-man group which is going to beat it is actually the same group, or just a group with more people. That sounds like WoW PvE in space, only against players... and reducing me to a WOW rat which can only shoot what has mysteriously 'aggroed' him is not my idea of fun in PvP. Killing tacklers, etc, etc, and prioritising targets stop being tactically viable options, because you can only shoot the thing 'taunting' you. You need to bring enough numbers and DPS to kill everything, because it's the only thing you can do, much like rats in games where there's aggro menagement. Anyway, combat is as long as it should be now. Increase it more, and you're just adding more incentives to fight in large groups and eventually blob, because, with better 'tankability', you can wait for reinforcements. This would be a nerf to all the solo-ers or small gangs out there, and would always give a buff to the larger gang, since it could play "shift aggro to the best tanker" game, combine that with logistics and EW, and the only thing you can do about it is blob more. I hate any proposal which intices people to blob more.
Manaswa	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:37:00 - [39] I'm sure I'm not the first in this topic to say this (haven't read replies) but...... I have a taunt module. It looks surprisingly like a big ass gun and I've discovered that the bad guys usually don't like it when I hit F1-F8 and blow a hole through their ship.
Scilent Enigma Minmatar Gerek Business Consortium	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:00:00 - [40] I've found target painters to be very effective at drawing aggro.. but to break an NPC's aggro and draw it to yourself? dunno about that.. would be pretty handy though.
Mo adib	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:12:00 - [41] normally I hate to take this line of logic but in this situation I find it applicable. This game is not your standard mmo (thankgod) if that is what you want to play so be it but this is not the place for that, the thing that makes eve great is that it is not like everyother game

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