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Murtific Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.02 23:53:00 - [1] So here I go again, thread will probably get locked. You get a friend in eve, sister that you work with at subway, or your wife's friend (whom of which has a power of attorney for the first person) whos husband is also getting deployed, to train both of those accounts for the two that are deployed. I wont bring up which document dictates the rights or wrongs committed here. The point being is that persons A and B still pay for their accounts and want their skills trained. We all agree that this is a major part of the game. I would like to publicaly state that ammendments to this document should be made. Conditions such as A) A legal way to "account share" [if we will name it this]; set ur account to some kind of inactive state, but only leaves it so that skills can be trained. B) No in game operation other that skill change can be conducted. C) Continueous logins will raise a flag for possible "account theft". Yea so, I can name about 15 soldiers that I work with here in Balad, Iraq with about 2 accounts each. You do the math on how much money CCP is raking in on 15 inactive people. 30 really. Are they saving bandwith, yep. I have a friend that had a nice little "debate" if you will with my friend. Just for the freaking information to everybody. Nobody demanded/asked/blackmailed me for my login information. And if they did, Why is my account still under my control and skills being trained??? =] "...What you did in regards to demanding the login details of your corp mates in return for ISK, ships, and skills is simply not accepted practice. I hope you can continue playing the game as it is intended to be played and that you will keep building friendships and having fun without sharing accounts. I assure you that the last thing we want to do is to be a thorn in your side. We are only trying to uphold the rules that are set to ensure safety. Best regards Senior GM Guard EVE Customer Support ..." You can only assume that somebody A) Ratted on us because I needed my accounts trained. B) What realy happend was, this individual knew inside information and in the end stole 1.4 bil from corp wallet through corp contract bugs and used to work for CCP, thus wanted to hurt people where it really matters, people like me and 15 other soldiers that I work with. YOu can probably tell I'm a bit angry, and angry at that GM Guard representitive. There are checks and balances.. The GM is simply balancing things, who's checking him and where he gets his information... Enough ranting. Grant some change to EULA for people that are unable to play but pay and expect great service, much like CCP advertises. Create some system. Who aggrees?? Hopefuly a few people will be able to post before this gets locked. Thx for all of your support! Specialist ********* US Army and livid EVE player =]
MC Smith	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:01:00 - [2] Edited by: MC Smith on 03/07/2007 00:01:10 Don't share accounts and don't post GM communications... Edit: also if you want someone to train your character transfer it to an account owned by them
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:01:00 - [3] First off posting communications from the GMs/Devs is a no-no. Edit that out of your post or it will get locked. To the main point account sharing is against the EULA. Certainly we can think of instances where it would be nice to do it and reasonable but CCP cannot get in the habit of researching every case and deciding one instance is ok and another is not. A blanket "no account sharing" is the way to go. If your wife is at home ask her to set skills for you. While I suppose this is technically account sharing it is the same household and your wife. I doubt anyone would ever know much less really care if they did. If she cannot do that then do an account transfer to someone who will maintain it for you and re-imburse them the monthly fee. In this way it is now their account and can legally (as far as CCP is concerned) use the account. When you return have the account transferred back. You have to trust those people but if they have power of attorney with you then I would assume you do trust them. Best of luck.
Alis Aquilae	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:02:00 - [4] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h First off posting communications from the GMs/Devs is a no-no. Edit that out of your post or it will get locked. To the main point account sharing is against the EULA. Certainly we can think of instances where it would be nice to do it and reasonable but CCP cannot get in the habit of researching every case and deciding one instance is ok and another is not. A blanket "no account sharing" is the way to go. If your wife is at home ask her to set skills for you. While I suppose this is technically account sharing it is the same household and your wife. I doubt anyone would ever know much less really care if they did. If she cannot do that then do an account transfer to someone who will maintain it for you and re-imburse them the monthly fee. In this way it is now their account and can legally (as far as CCP is concerned) use the account. When you return have the account transferred back. You have to trust those people but if they have power of attorney with you then I would assume you do trust them. Best of luck. The wife thing should work fine, I believe there is an exception for direct family?
X99 Z990	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:03:00 - [5] Rules are rules.
SgtDeaux	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:03:00 - [6] First of all Hooah. 2nd be smart in the sandbox 3rd contact CCP directally.. this is a special problem and therefore deserves special attention. I think they would rather keep you as a consumer than loose your money. Lets also not forget too mention the money of thousands of other soldiers who play this game around the world who would be ANNOYED too see a company screw a soldier.
Murtific Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:04:00 - [7] Why should I pay 40 dollars extra to ensure my account(s) get trained.
MC Smith	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:05:00 - [8] Originally by: Alis Aquilae The wife thing should work fine, I believe there is an exception for direct family? Only for parent-child afaik.
MC Smith	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Murtific Why should I pay 40 dollars extra to ensure my account(s) get trained. Why should you be given special treatment and be exempted from the rules?
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Murtific Why should I pay 40 dollars extra to ensure my account(s) get trained. I assume you mean the cost of tranferring and transferring back. Sucks I know but that's the deal. Maybe if you contacted CCP directly and explained why they might benice and wave the fee. No idea if they would but doesn't hurt to ask. Would be a nice thing for them to do for soldiers who get sent abroad (any country's soldiers).
Murtific Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:16:00 - [11] Originally by: MC Smith Originally by: Murtific Why should I pay 40 dollars extra to ensure my account(s) get trained. Why should you be given special treatment and be exempted from the rules? I never stated that I should be given special treatment. I stated that a system should be intriducted for the populous. Perceptions are your reality.
chrisreeves Gallente Asgard Protectorate	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:17:00 - [12] Edited by: chrisreeves on 03/07/2007 00:16:41 ibtl & you shouldn't post CCP communication, you'll get bad things done to you. Oh and, even though everyone says that its very clear, the EULA is flawed at best in it's attempt to dissuade members from sharing accounts, training skills for someone else, etc. Not that I share accounts, I don't. It's just that I can read for myself and see there are issues with it. Yeah I said it, flawed and don't give me that social engineered answer "the EULA says no" because the EULA also says that " #21 You may not share your account password with anyone. Infraction of this rule is done at your own risk. Further information on account transfers can be found in the EULA." Kinda vague there. So what's the EULA say? "2 B. You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Password and for any damage, harm, lost or deleted characters, etc. resulting from your disclosure, or allowing the disclosure, of any Password, or from use by any person of your Password." Now it also says in there that "YOU MUST NOT ALLOW" but, you can't have multiple negating rules that people are supposed to agree to. Anyways a simple solution but one that costs you more is to have the person start a new account and transfer your characters to them. They can train the characters and when you get back, transfer them back or to a new account. Sucks but, like many things in Eve, CCP just hasn't taken this to a place that addresses the different situations that their "loyal" subscribers get placed in in their lives. ----------------- Originally by: kieron The Ibis was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile. "It was empty!!"
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:19:00 - [13] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 03/07/2007 00:19:37 Originally by: Murtific Why should I pay 40 dollars extra to ensure my account(s) get trained. You pay 40 dollars to get away with it if someone untrustworthy is in the loop. Everyone does account sharing for the purpose of skill training sometime. Most people only let trustworthy people know about it. If it is let slip, CCP have to come down hard because all kinds of Badness could potentially ensue from abuses of account sharing. Oh, and IBTL . - You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means
Ore Liberator Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:23:00 - [14] Eve is a game where you can't trust anyone. The no account sharing clause sucks, but thems the rules. IMO it should not be enforced with the understanding of "if someone steals your account, you're screwed" much like how it is dealt with in WoW (hey, you got hacked, grats now you're banned!) I lost near a year of training in eve (this is an alt) on my day 1 character as a result of deployments, and yes, I do think it sucks.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:24:00 - [15] Originally by: chrisreeves Oh and, even though everyone says that its very clear, the EULA is flawed at best in it's attempt to dissuade members from sharing accounts, training skills for someone else, etc. Not that I share accounts, I don't. It's just that I can read for myself and see there are issues with it. EULA is fine. Originally by: chrisreeves #21 You may not share your account password with anyone. Infraction of this rule is done at your own risk. Further information on account transfers can be found in the EULA." Kinda vague there. The EULA says you can't account share. Rather than saying CCP will burn you at the stake, they simply say 'at your own risk'. Which, to just about anyone, means "don't get caught". Originally by: chrisreeves "2 B. You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Password and for any damage, harm, lost or deleted characters, etc. resulting from your disclosure, or allowing the disclosure, of any Password, or from use by any person of your Password." Now it also says in there that "YOU MUST NOT ALLOW" but, you can't have multiple negating rules that people are supposed to agree to. It is not a 'negating rule'. This also covers accidental disclosure of password. This is just an expansion on the 'at your own risk' part of the previous bit. Seems quite clear to me. - You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means
Jennai The Silent Rage R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Crumplecorn If it is let slip, CCP have to come down hard because all kinds of Badness could potentially ensue from abuses of account sharing. you mean like the account sharing 23/7 mining isk farmers that never have anything done to them? providing special considerations for soldiers on deployment is good PR. rules-lawyering soldiers into shelling out $40 in transfer fees while doing nothing about the thousands of isk farmers isn't going to look good if it hits the media.
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:48:00 - [17] Is this the final nail in the coffin containing consumer trust for CCP? If it gets out I would say so. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
chrisreeves Gallente Asgard Protectorate	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:49:00 - [18] The way the rules are written are so that CCP has a means to say "see, it says here" when in fact, it is said numerous times throughout the EULA but in fact does not agree with itself. The "contradictory" rules are contained in other passages, not necessarily in the ones I quoted. If you look at the TOS and EULA, they are not clear when it comes to being explicit in the sharing rules. Yes the EULA says that "you cannot" share which means, it's against the rules, penalties ensue. Yes the EULA says it's "your responsibility" <-- this should be removed because it suggests that you can share but wont be supported by CCP if something goes wrong when in fact, they don't want you sharing at all, no questions asked so this part is unnecessary. There is one famous precedent involved in the last statement from what I seem to remember, even a comment in a blog or dev statement in reference to a certain group of people when this was brought up in the past. I'll see if I can find it. ----------------- Originally by: kieron The Ibis was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile. "It was empty!!"
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:56:00 - [19] The sharing account details rules have always been lame and comedically enforced (cyno-alts, nope, no one anywhere has been sharing those out! Devs taking advantage of them? Nope never happened either!) Maybe what CCP should actually do is get on and implement a proper system to allow people to queue skills up for exactly this reason.
Mari Onette Amarr Gottland Production Transport Mines	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:56:00 - [20] #1: Thank you for your service. You do a job nobody should need to do and I have much respect for that. #2: I feel like there's something you're leaving out. you start out talking about how you needed to keep account's training for your soldier buddies, and suddenly the post skids into the theft of 1.4 billion isk, and GM interaction. I think you should take a moment to write out the whole story so we can better understand what happened. #3:If you have characters that are going inactive, It's best practice to remove all corp rights they may have to things this will prevent corp theft. ------ I am in blood! Stepp'd in so far that, should I wade no more, it would be as tedious as going over. -MacBeth
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Spenz Is this the final nail in the coffin containing consumer trust for CCP? If it gets out I would say so. Im not quite sure about this. Its a kick in the shins for the OP - but how could CCP get a media drubbing for following the rules they laid out. They didnt really get a drubbing for breaking the rules they laid out some time ago even. SKUNK Originally by: Fink Angel They acted like Mr. Creasote at the all you can eat buffet, and CCP provided the Wafer Theeen Mint.
MC Smith	Posted - 2007.07.03 00:57:00 - [22] Originally by: chrisreeves The way the rules are written are so that CCP has a means to say "see, it says here" when in fact, it is said numerous times throughout the EULA but in fact does not agree with itself. Its pretty explicit actually. The "your responsibility" and "at your own risk" part simply states that CCP is not liable for any actions taken by others as a result of you giving away your password.
Nadarius Chrome Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.07.03 01:10:00 - [23] Allowing skill queueing from the account management page would be a good solution. Don't allow changing of a skill in progress, but allow people to add one queued skill if there isn't one already, or change it if there is. This should obviously only work on open/active accounts, else you'd be able to skill on closed accounts.
Chronos Sage	Posted - 2007.07.03 01:30:00 - [24] who the hell is going to train your character for you when you have transfered it to thier account - no one - because only one character can be trained on any given account, so thats just silly - what is really needed it to be able to access the character training section via the web or somthing instead if actually having to have a eve client installed. then you could just drop into a local i-cafe and pull it up and change the skill training as required. having a short training queue would be better but weve had the answer to that over and over... so... my two cents anyway Sage
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.07.03 01:33:00 - [25] People tend to be in the sandbox for a lot longer than it takes to train two skills mate. There needs to be a long-term solution to allow someone else to manage your account, not character. Maybe it would require an approval process via CCP. Maybe it would be an exemption only allowed for military deployments and require a copy of your orders or some such. But this issue stinks and as it looks right now, CCP is profiteering people for $60 extra bucks if they want to keep their characters skilling when they can't access the game. Thats $20 you give your friend in cash so he can create a new account. Thats $20 to transfer the character over and thats $20 to transfer it back when you're done doing what your doing. Or maybe they could actually implement the changing of skills via cell-phone or the internet and not just through the game client. This still could still cut a lot of people out but most people, even soldiers in Iraq, tend to get internet access. ---- The Ridley Tree Productions Vault of Videos
Draygo Korvan Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.03 01:38:00 - [26] Ill give you a simple answer: If the person setting your training skills (like your wife) logs in to your computer, sets the skills, then logs off there is no way for CCP to know that it wasnt you unless you tell them. There is no way CCP can enforce no-account sharing in a household because it is completely undetectable. The larger question you are posing can only be answered by CCP. Good luck.
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.07.03 01:43:00 - [27] Edited by: Ridley Tree on 03/07/2007 01:42:16 Originally by: Draygo Korvan Ill give you a simple answer: If the person setting your training skills (like your wife) logs in to your computer, sets the skills, then logs off there is no way for CCP to know that it wasnt you unless you tell them. There is no way CCP can enforce no-account sharing in a household because it is completely undetectable. The larger question you are posing can only be answered by CCP. Good luck. And how can they tell if its not you if its a different computer? If I log into EVE from my place in California on Monday. My brother's place in Arizona on Tuesday. My friend's place in Texas on Wednesday and my cousin's place in Germany on Friday am I going to have my account canceled for account sharing? ---- The Ridley Tree Productions Vault of Videos
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.03 01:48:00 - [28] Originally by: Jennai Originally by: Crumplecorn If it is let slip, CCP have to come down hard because all kinds of Badness could potentially ensue from abuses of account sharing. you mean like the account sharing 23/7 mining isk farmers that never have anything done to them? No, I mean like someone getting their account stolen and trying to blame CCP. - You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.03 01:54:00 - [29] Originally by: Ridley Tree stuff You seem to have missed the part where you have to change skills yourself manually. CCP have refused to even add skill changes to the 'My Character' page because they want to force people to log in if they want their character to continue training. Not being able to continue training if you can't log in for an extended period isn't a problem, it's the game's design in action. This whole thing reminds me of noobs who stay up late at night to change over to their next 6H long skill, just on a longer time scale. - You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.03 01:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Dez Affinity I'm guessing this thread will get locked as well, which is sad because this game caters for lots of people and letting people voice their opinions about rules should be allowed, otherwise it's some kind of dictatorship. Oh well. The EULA is hardly going to be determined through democracy now is it? - You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.03 02:01:00 - [31] havent you got better things to be worrying about brother? stay safe. DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
Mungad Caldari Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.03 02:18:00 - [32] Don't ask, don't tell? _____________________________ I farm isk.
Keira Fordring Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.07.03 02:34:00 - [33] Edited by: Keira Fordring on 03/07/2007 02:34:49 Edited by: Keira Fordring on 03/07/2007 02:33:34 Edited by: Keira Fordring on 03/07/2007 02:32:59 Quote: There needs to be a long-term solution to allow someone else to manage your account, not character. Maybe it would require an approval process via CCP... How about a secondary password. Each account creates two passwords. One is primary in which you can log on and do anything you want. The second can ONLY train skills. It can't fly, buy, trade, etc. Hell, make it so when logged in under that password it automatically puts you in the station where your clone is and won't let you undock. Naturally the secondary password would be shareable. I still however like the idea of skill queues and web access to skill training.
Dez Affinity Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 02:37:00 - [34] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Dez Affinity I'm guessing this thread will get locked as well, which is sad because this game caters for lots of people and letting people voice their opinions about rules should be allowed, otherwise it's some kind of dictatorship. Oh well. The EULA is hardly going to be determined through democracy now is it? Ok then let me rephrase, the game is made for us to play and if a majority don't like something within the EULA then they quit. If they quit, less people play, eventually game dies. Basicaly what I'm trying to say is rather than stopping all form of criticism and suggestions about the rules, they should at least be considered. Originally by: R3dSh1ft havent you got better things to be worrying about brother? I guess it helps to take your mind off such things. _______________
UPA Terf DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2007.07.03 02:40:00 - [35] Hey im about to be kind of in the same situation (joining USAF and cant access for a good few months)and as it is i just use direct family members..it is a special situation but i can also see where the gm is coming from as it gives players access to "sensitive" information. ------------------------------ *~~Scorn~~*
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.07.03 04:13:00 - [36] Originally by: UPA Terf Hey im about to be kind of in the same situation (joining USAF and cant access for a good few months)and as it is i just use direct family members..it is a special situation but i can also see where the gm is coming from as it gives players access to "sensitive" information. And you have just admitted to account 'sharing' because currently the only exception is a parent creating an account for a minor child. Not direct family members. ---- The Ridley Tree Productions Vault of Videos

Kaemonn Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.07.03 05:11:00 - [37] Dont post GM communications. forum rules \| [email protected]\| Eve-CCG

voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.07.03 05:27:00 - [38] Edited by: voogru on 03/07/2007 05:26:54 I personally think that there are bigger account sharing problems going on rather than some dude logging in to train skills for you. Perhaps those ISK Farmers who are on 23/7, which usually have people working in shifts to control the account. Isn't that account sharing? It's not so bad though, you get to kill them/scam them twice as much because in 12 hours they won't remember what you did to them earlier.
Max Godsnottlingson Amarr Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.07.03 06:19:00 - [39] Listen Murtific. As a vet of the falklands war and the First Gulf War let me say thsi to you. SCREW EVE! It's not important. Just you concentrate on making sure thay you do your 'bit' out in that God awful place. But more importantly, that you do what you have to do to get yourself home again and in one bit. Good luck and god bless, and I for one will look forward to the day you are posting here to say you are back and it's back to 'Eve' business as usual Stay focused man. Max G.
Murtific Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 06:30:00 - [40] All great suggestions from everybody. I've got a response from a person that stated they will push this subject up to the right people. We'll see =] I'm just tryin' to help out those, like me, who cant play everyday. Especially when ur working 16 hour shifts to keep helicopters in the air for the ground guys.... Max, yea, good point, but I play eve to relieve stress and get my mind off things.... =]
Jaikar Isillia The Vinlanders Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.03 06:52:00 - [41] In eve it's only illegal if you get caught. So don't worry about it.
Semkhet Saudarkars	Posted - 2007.07.03 07:36:00 - [42] As far as I know, there's not a single country governed by the rule of law where clauses written in a private contract enjoy the legal power to superceed the law, except if the law has SPECIFICALLY granted said provision or the clause adresses a legal "foggy" area, as simple as that. Now legislation concerning virtual entertainment services is quite a new thing, and the pace countries update and adapt their laws is highly variable from place to place. However, to give an example concerning the EU, here's what happens: - In the EU, it is commonly stated that in case of conflict, it is the legal seat of the entertainment service provider which dictates the legal realm both parties will have to refer to. In the case of CCP, it is Iceland , which is NOT an EU member. So you might be inclined to believe that CCP is solely entitled to write in the EULA what it wishes as long it respects Icelandic law. -> Wrong. Why ? Because the EU laws concerning consumer protection also clearly state that a virtual service provider can refer to the legislation applying to its legal seat, PROVIDED said legislation and clauses of the binding contract DO NOT CONFLICT with the customer's legal rights granted by the legislation governing the country where the customer is LOCATED. In other words, with all its EU customers and the corresponding potential market of 450 million people, the various clauses of CCP's EULA are only valid on a case by case basis if they do not CONFLICT with the specific local customer's protection legal rights. Now take into account that the EU is composed by 27 nations which all have their own legislation and you can imagine the mess. Therefore, a customer displeased by a CCP decision based on the EULA could very well sue and win in a given EU country X, while another customer following exactly the same pattern could swiftly loose in the EU country Y. To CCP's credit, the international legal framework and the dynamics involved (laws change on a daily basis according to countries, politics, jurisprudence, etc...) make it impossible for CCP's lawyers to design an universal EULA 100% internationally proof. Bear in mind that CCP is a relatively new venture, and it's a gaming business. You certainly can't expect them to hire more lawyers than programmers and come up with the same complex contracts covering the tiniest hickup like international banks for example where each contract is explicitely aimed at a given country in a given context and for a specific set of services. Where would that put the monthly subscription to cover all these costs ? Hence the EULA will always be imperfect if you wish a cheap service, and I must say that I prefer an imperfect EULA than ending in a legal remake of the USA where for example half the price of a private medical intervention is related to bureaucracy and insurance coverages and an army of parasites spend their time seeking the tiniest hole in order to sue and make money on the backs of regular customers which are those who always will bear the final costs repercussion since businesses aren't there to loose money, one way or another.
UPA Terf DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2007.07.03 07:46:00 - [43] sorry i wasnt pointlessly pedantic about my post but i should have said "i will use family members" but now i guess i wont you have taught me just how much the little things matter...merry christmas everyone. ------------------------------ *~~Scorn~~*
Ulii	Posted - 2007.07.03 08:03:00 - [44] Originally by: Jennai Originally by: Crumplecorn If it is let slip, CCP have to come down hard because all kinds of Badness could potentially ensue from abuses of account sharing. you mean like the account sharing 23/7 mining isk farmers that never have anything done to them? providing special considerations for soldiers on deployment is good PR. rules-lawyering soldiers into shelling out $40 in transfer fees while doing nothing about the thousands of isk farmers isn't going to look good if it hits the media. yes! lets give every one that murders and kill in the name of uppholding a dictatorial regime special rights in this game!!
Tyrus Ex Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.03 08:33:00 - [45] Edited by: Tyrus Ex on 03/07/2007 08:33:41 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: chrisreeves #21 You may not share your account password with anyone. Infraction of this rule is done at your own risk. Further information on account transfers can be found in the EULA." Kinda vague there. The EULA says you can't account share. Rather than saying CCP will burn you at the stake, they simply say 'at your own risk'. Which, to just about anyone, means "don't get caught". Avoiding violation of point 21 of the EULA is relatively simple - you can set the client up (by editing the prefs.ini file, which is not against the EULA afaik) so that it automatically logs you into the game, without having to manually type in a password. In this way, your kids, wife, sister, brother, whatever, could change your skills, and you wouldn't have to share your password with them. IT would seem that from the language of the EULA, this would still be within the rules. Question for the OP: will you have internet access at all? If so, you could use VNC to remotely access your computer (with an http tunnel for example) and hence launch and play EVE (assuming you can't do it the normal way). Tyrus
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.03 08:36:00 - [46] If you have any type of net access on a computer made in the last 3-5 years then you should be able to eek out enough access to flip skills in EVE even by satellite. Probably best to aim for carriers or something though because a 2-3 s roundtrip can't make for fun.
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.03 08:42:00 - [47] Originally by: MC Smith Originally by: Murtific Why should I pay 40 dollars extra to ensure my account(s) get trained. Why should you be given special treatment and be exempted from the rules? Because he's being ordered (not asked) to leave the country, to risk his life to help keep your ass safe.
X99 Z990	Posted - 2007.07.03 08:46:00 - [48] Edited by: X99 Z990 on 03/07/2007 08:45:17 Again eve isnt based around one country or its army. Its the EULA. Edit - No special treatment!
Haxar The Usual Targets	Posted - 2007.07.03 08:54:00 - [49] Originally by: Malcanis [...] Because he's being ordered (not asked) to leave the country, to risk his life to help keep your ass safe. Nevertheless he wasn't ordered to join the army, he did that voluntarily.
Rafein	Posted - 2007.07.03 09:01:00 - [50] It is a touchy subject, cause to allow accout sharing/transfering at all basically opens up to acount selling for RL cash, with players making back alley deals through e-mail, then going through official channels when money is transfered. Which would be horrible for the game. Ya, if you just had someone log in, set skills, and log off, you probably would have been fine. But you probably got an Eve player, who decided to take your char out for a spin. All it takes is for him to let slip he is just a "caretaker", and one corp/alliance member tells CCP, and shows logs, and bam, you get banned. Personally, i would not mind specia cases of allowing characters to be transfered, or better, special cases when characters can be trained Via the web page, as long as they are well regulated, and documented proof is provided. However, changing the EULA to allow account transfers would open up the game to account selling, which woould further ruin the game. Especialy in a game where reuptation, and time invested is so important. Anyone can have a level 70 in WoW in a few weeks, no one can have a 30 million SP fighter in 2-3 months. ersonally, I woulda just sucked it up, et the longest thing I had, and let the account expire. Sure you lose some training time, but it's just time.

Ivan Kirilenkov Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.07.03 09:09:00 - [51] Please keep politics out of this; I'm going to allow the discussion to continue, but leave out possible ways to go around the EULA and/or break it, and political discussions. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.03 09:13:00 - [52] Yeah, and why should anyone deserve any consideration for offering to do that? Jeez, the guy volunteers to give up a number of freedoms - including the freedom to stay or go as he choose - in order to risk his life for his country and all you can do is talk like some low level helpdesk monkey. I'm sure you think you're being very "hardcore" and "old EvE player" and all that, but actually you just sound like a little kid crying it's not fair that your big brother is allowed to stay up an hour later than you.
DARTHxFREE Aliastra	Posted - 2007.07.03 09:17:00 - [53] Lets face it, the EULA sucks and we all know it, just most are to afraid to admit it, it's put in place to mostly shut us up so that if we have any complaints or questions they /point EULA which if zoomed out fully looks like a big "you are legaly obliged to shut up" Unlike Blizzard you cant say about CCP that they roll about in $$$ and thats all they care about. The evedence points to a more lazy outlook, in that as long as teh $$$ is rolling thats ok, lets hire 1-5 staff to cater for a world wide server and let the EULA take care of the slack, wake us up if theirs any big probs. For the OP, if you don't tell any one your acount sharring, they wont know. I don't belive any one could grass you up and get a GM to actualy listen and start an investigation. >:-E3 /join Cheeze & Whine Club Blaster Kamikaze, If your not prepeared to give it all up, stop saying your not a care bear
Gungankllr Caldari STK Scientific M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.07.03 09:36:00 - [54] If it means a great deal to you then go to a paralegal and draw up a power of attorney for whoever you want to access your account. Then send a certified copy to CCP's office via registered mail. That should work, unless CCP doesn't recognize the legality of a power of attorney.
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.07.03 09:37:00 - [55] If it means so much to you, put EvE on a USB drive, get a 3G datacard or ISP/cellphone for your lappy, logon EvE from iraq once every 3-4 weeks and train some lvl 5 rank 5+ skills while your out there...
Semkhet Saudarkars	Posted - 2007.07.03 10:01:00 - [56] Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth If it means so much to you, put EvE on a USB drive, get a 3G datacard or ISP/cellphone for your lappy, logon EvE from iraq once every 3-4 weeks and train some lvl 5 rank 5+ skills while your out there... Private cellular coverage in Iraq varies from bad to non-existing. For example, even in Baghdad there are zones with absolutely no coverage. Now that's the capital, so you can imagine how's the rest of the country...
RaTTuS BIG BIG is Beautiful	Posted - 2007.07.03 10:17:00 - [57] Originally by: Tyrus Ex Avoiding violation of point 21 of the EULA is relatively simple - you can set the client up (by editing the prefs.ini file, which is not against the EULA afaik) Tyrus no you cannot - that was removed in rev 1 IIRC. if you have internet access of any kind you can load up the client and change skills, by a varity of means -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & Skills Blog
Na'Kunni Amarr RSP Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.03 10:17:00 - [58] Originally by: SgtDeaux First of all Hooah. Lets also not forget too mention the money of thousands of other soldiers who play this game around the world who would be ANNOYED too see a company screw a soldier. Sounds like your about to declare war on CCP??
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.03 10:24:00 - [59] Originally by: Keira Fordring Edited by: Keira Fordring on 03/07/2007 02:34:49 Edited by: Keira Fordring on 03/07/2007 02:33:34 Edited by: Keira Fordring on 03/07/2007 02:32:59 Quote: There needs to be a long-term solution to allow someone else to manage your account, not character. Maybe it would require an approval process via CCP... How about a secondary password. Each account creates two passwords. One is primary in which you can log on and do anything you want. The second can ONLY train skills. It can't fly, buy, trade, etc. Hell, make it so when logged in under that password it automatically puts you in the station where your clone is and won't let you undock. Naturally the secondary password would be shareable. I still however like the idea of skill queues and web access to skill training. This seems like an excellent technical fix to the problem.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 10:56:00 - [60] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 03/07/2007 10:58:15 I'm sort of tired of debating, as there's been so little headway. I just think that CCP should see the difference between: 1) Legit account sharing. Your friends train skills for you, help the corp. jump items from empire to 0.0 (eg. if you're the only cap pilot), etc. - ie. it's up to you to decide whether a person is trustworthy enough to help you or not. I realize of course that this will never happen in any bureaucratic organization, but the fact that it doesn't happen affects customer satisfaction. I can imagine for instance a corporation of IRL-friends who decide to buy a shared account with a capital ship pilot (with ISK of course) to help the corporation. I would also imagine that a bunch of cyno alts to move across great distances is an additional "thing" that players should be allowed because the game-mechanics are the way they are. 2) Illegit account sharing. Pretty much any case where someone hacks an account, and the original account holder is unknowing. Through such means as brute-forcing, and where the only intention is to steal or abuse the account and characters on it. The fact that the EULA does not distinguish between the two above is a fundamental flaw imho. It's like in real life, I give my girlfriend my VISA card because I trust her, and it gives us the freedom so that she can use it to purchase items for me, or for the household. Or I give my friend the key to the house while I'm on vacation, to take care of the house, and maybe if he doesn't have my home cinema, he can watch videos and lay in my sofa as thanks for watering my plants or whatnot. The landlord forbidding such use (as in this case) really only makes matters more annoying and complicated, limiting the freedom of the house holder to do things as going on vacation without having a house full of dead plants and a dead cat because of the bueraucratic insanity and rule-fascist leaders. - Recruitment open again-
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:03:00 - [61] Leave your PC at home on all time (The password in not removed form the combo box when it gets out from DT. TEchnicaly solved, no one will know your password and they can change your skils :P If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Morghana Seputila	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:09:00 - [62] Why should it be any other way just because you have a differnt job than others? So a truck driver thats away 7 days in arow can also get others to train. Or kindergarden teacher thats on fieldtrip for 2 days? When it all comes down to it, its just a job like everyother job. Either change rules in general, or leave and let it count for all. I see no point in making sepcial rules for special groups. How a bout kids that go to school, and is not allowed to stay up later than 20.00? should they only pay for those hours then... and you can go on. Rules are rules, no matter job, age, gender, race, location etc etc. Just my opinion
Spaced Skunk Buffed Rumpuss Zit Dids	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:18:00 - [63] The EULA does mention the fact that sharing is 'at your own risk', however I equally think that CCP have the duty to protect the customer from account hacking. The fact is you could have paid for 12 months of game time/training time and may have been away for 11 months. I don't personally agree that if an instant like this arrises, the EULA prevents you from having your account trained by a friend or family member, yet CCP dont give out refunds because you cant be actively getting the game time/training time you paid for. CCP needs a skill tree system, that at least allows you to train multiple skills while you can't be playing. I think its the only way around for CCP to actually provide that training time people paid for, without them having to waste it or violate the EULA.
Morghana Seputila	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:19:00 - [64] Originally by: Semkhet Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth If it means so much to you, put EvE on a USB drive, get a 3G datacard or ISP/cellphone for your lappy, logon EvE from iraq once every 3-4 weeks and train some lvl 5 rank 5+ skills while your out there... Private cellular coverage in Iraq varies from bad to non-existing. For example, even in Baghdad there are zones with absolutely no coverage. Now that's the capital, so you can imagine how's the rest of the country... Yes varies - we had 10Mbit shared line with staff, but well enough to log in, check mails, use MSN/IPphone, Eveskills, whatever. And even if you dont - its still just a game. Nothing more, nothing less. It will be there when he gets home im quite sure...
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:28:00 - [65] Originally by: Morghana Seputila Why should it be any other way just because you have a differnt job than others? In the case of a soldier that question is kind of laughable. Its an accepted societal fact that soldiers get treated differently. Period. End of story. In the case of EVE the situation of a soldier simply serves to high-light the fundamental problem. There is no system in place that allows for your long-term absence that still allows you to take advantage of the skill system. One of EVE's biggest selling points is "you don't have to play the game to 'level' up." Its why people with limited game playing time like EVE. If this is going to be an EVE selling point there needs to be a system that allows for long-term absence as well. Quote: So a truck driver thats away 7 days in arow can also get others to train. Or kindergarden teacher thats on fieldtrip for 2 days? Yes and Yes. Quote: When it all comes down to it, its just a job like everyother job. Either change rules in general, or leave and let it count for all. I see no point in making sepcial rules for special groups. How a bout kids that go to school, and is not allowed to stay up later than 20.00? should they only pay for those hours then... and you can go on. Its rather easy to manage skills such that a few days aren't a problem. Its rather difficult to manage skills when you're going to be gone for 9 months +. Lets say I simply want to take a yacht and sale for 4 months. I should be able to just have someone log in and change my skills. I shouldn't have to pay $60 bucks for the privilege. I want a system to be created that allows for this, and that is what I think the OP wants as well. A system as simple as setting a queue of skills when you log off that continues to train, uninterrupted and automatically, so long as your account is active would be an excellent solution. Quote: Rules are rules, no matter job, age, gender, race, location etc etc. Just my opinion Most governments, and people, disagree with you. ---- The Ridley Tree Productions Vault of Videos
Lilian Long	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:36:00 - [66] Edited by: Lilian Long on 03/07/2007 11:42:45 In some other games I've seen baby-sitting modes, you can grant one other user restricted access to care about your stuff, while you are on vacation. The question in eve is, if that should allow more than skill training. Like someone else pointed out, skill training could also be done via web interface. As it is now, I'll never give my password away. I know 2 people, who have been 'hacked' (that's what they say) and 1 who got his account stolen by a RL mate afaik, after he gave him the login to babysit the account. Now the account is banned. I want to keep my personal risk at minimum, so noone gets my login. Then I also know, on which computer it is running (no keyloggers) and if/where login data is stored. It's a golden rule for me. If an alliance/corp I'd like to join would request my login, I'd say forget it. I'd even say that to the guys I've been playing with for years. It's a principle. I don't want to think about what might go wrong.
Polinus	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:25:00 - [67] Originally by: Ridley Tree Originally by: Morghana Seputila Why should it be any other way just because you have a differnt job than others? In the case of a soldier that question is kind of laughable. Its an accepted societal fact that soldiers get treated differently. Period. End of story. In the case of EVE the situation of a soldier simply serves to high-light the fundamental problem. There is no system in place that allows for your long-term absence that still allows you to take advantage of the skill system. One of EVE's biggest selling points is "you don't have to play the game to 'level' up." Its why people with limited game playing time like EVE. If this is going to be an EVE selling point there needs to be a system that allows for long-term absence as well. Quote: So a truck driver thats away 7 days in arow can also get others to train. Or kindergarden teacher thats on fieldtrip for 2 days? Yes and Yes. Quote: When it all comes down to it, its just a job like everyother job. Either change rules in general, or leave and let it count for all. I see no point in making sepcial rules for special groups. How a bout kids that go to school, and is not allowed to stay up later than 20.00? should they only pay for those hours then... and you can go on. Its rather easy to manage skills such that a few days aren't a problem. Its rather difficult to manage skills when you're going to be gone for 9 months +. Lets say I simply want to take a yacht and sale for 4 months. I should be able to just have someone log in and change my skills. I shouldn't have to pay $60 bucks for the privilege. I want a system to be created that allows for this, and that is what I think the OP wants as well. A system as simple as setting a queue of skills when you log off that continues to train, uninterrupted and automatically, so long as your account is active would be an excellent solution. Quote: Rules are rules, no matter job, age, gender, race, location etc etc. Just my opinion Most governments, and people, disagree with you. In SOME societies that is true. Not all and even on those societies that is far from confirming as an inteligent thing. Its your problem you decided to be a soldier. If I am amedic and i am called for an emergency surgery and loose my skill change time for a few hours. Why is soldier more important than me? The medic is salving a life... contrary to the other.
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:47:00 - [68] Edited by: Necronomicon on 03/07/2007 12:47:23 Edited by: Necronomicon on 03/07/2007 12:46:33 Yes, with all due respect, this is your chosen career, and we see RL getting in the way of a game on a daily basis, and chars who are older than mine with half the skillpoints due to RL. But tbh, I cannot see why CCP cannot add an out of game web based skill management service. Granted it would not allow you to buy new skills etc, but at least you would be able to train the ones you have. Also, skill queueing would help. That aside. I see no reason for CCP to change the EULA, It would be interesting however to ask if this is allowed. Player A (one due to be afk for some months) has Char A Player B (baby sitter for skilling Player A's char while he is away) Player A transfers Char A to Player B's account (paying transfer cost) Player A then toddles off wherever and Player B can skill train Char A legitimately for however long. Player A's account gets put on hold. Player A returns and Player B transfers Char A back to Player A's account. Job done? Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
csebal HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:54:00 - [69] Jesus, let's not start with this who is healing and who is killing stuff. Its just sick. In a sense, a soldier can save life, by protecting those who cant protect themselves, and in the same manner, a medic can kill by healing someone who will them go into a mall and massacre everyone. It is pointless. The only thing that matters is that the rules are set in a particular way. I've been lobbying for some time on the forums to have a web interface for skill training, but most people just don't care enough, and that is fine with CCP.. one less thing for them to do. That any social / professional group should get a special treatment, now thats a big nono... First of all, CCP is not a social institute of any military out there.. so if someone from some military organization feels let down, i suggest contacting the proper organization for better compensation. Then again, it would be quite contradictory anyway.. Soldiers usually get special treatment - in their own country - because they risk their lives for the country. In an internation game, that king of gesture has no place. This might be a harsh example, but you might very well be playing with the child of someone you shoot in whatever war you participate in. Same goes the other way around. Nah.. not thank you. While i feel sorry for his loss, he has to get over it. About character transfers costing money. Well, i think CCP starts to get over the line a bit. I honestly never liked the idea that character transfers cost money. It is just another way to make money off people, and i say.. F you, whoever got the idea originally. After all, it is an automated process FFS. Just a damn ID in the database, which account that damn character belongs to. Portrait change costing money? A joke. EVE voice costing money.. well.. i can certainly understand the issue of bandwidth, but i think if alliances can host their own voice servers serving 100s, then a company charging 15 damn euros a month for each of my 3 accounts can surely afford to set up a few servers and buy some extra bandwidth for it. Luckily for me, i have my own voice comm for both corp and alliance levels, so i do not need to rely on CCP-Greed features. EVE TV.. the biggest joke in history. I would maybe watch those shows once if they would be free.. but paying over 1 EUR for a damn weekly show? FOR EVERY DAMN TIME I WATCH IT? Thanks, but no thanks. Whoever got that idea, CCP, fire him ASAP, as a few more like these and people might seriously consider leaving this greed infested hole we are sliding into. End of my ranting. Sorry for being a bit off topic, but the above issue clearly show that at this moment, CCP is far too much concerned about skinning you to care for some account sharing problems. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Phear the arrows of the HUNs >>---->
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:56:00 - [70] Originally by: Spaced Skunk The EULA does mention the fact that sharing is 'at your own risk', however I equally think that CCP have the duty to protect the customer from account hacking. The fact is you could have paid for 12 months of game time/training time and may have been away for 11 months. I don't personally agree that if an instant like this arrises, the EULA prevents you from having your account trained by a friend or family member, yet CCP dont give out refunds because you cant be actively getting the game time/training time you paid for. CCP needs a skill tree system, that at least allows you to train multiple skills while you can't be playing. I think its the only way around for CCP to actually provide that training time people paid for, without them having to waste it or violate the EULA. Or just handle it case-by-case, if none of the users of the account suffers, why the heck should it be a CCP problem? Seriously? - Recruitment open again-
Selarana Velori	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:58:00 - [71] Well I don't think something can be done about this without being unfair as many others already pointed out. I was a soldier myself and it just gets with the job to be on maneuver for a couple of days. But to be honest if I was a citizen of such an aggressive and warmongering country I wouldn't have joined up in the first place. But still I think there is no good solution to your problem.
Selarana Velori	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:58:00 - [72] Edited by: Selarana Velori on 03/07/2007 12:57:36 double post
csebal HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:02:00 - [73] Originally by: Selarana Velori Well I don't think something can be done about this without being unfair as many others already pointed out. I was a soldier myself and it just gets with the job to be on maneuver for a couple of days. But to be honest if I was a citizen of such an aggressive and warmongering country I wouldn't have joined up in the first place. But still I think there is no good solution to your problem. That warmongering could easily have started AFTER he joined. You also shouldnt forget, that things are relative, and people from different countries tend believe what THEIR newspaper, TV, radio, goverment, etc says. So who is the warmonger and who isnt.. thats highly subject of where you look at it from. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Phear the arrows of the HUNs >>---->
Selarana Velori	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:07:00 - [74] Edited by: Selarana Velori on 03/07/2007 13:08:02 Quote: That warmongering could easily have started AFTER he joined. Somehow I doubt he is 180 years old Oh and about your subjectivism...yes the crusaders wouldn't have considered themselves to be warmongers, too. So yeah thats correct. But all I am saying is: That is just something he will have to accept. CCP probably won't do something about this.
Steel Tigeress Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:08:00 - [75] Originally by: Morghana Seputila Why should it be any other way just because you have a differnt job than others? So a truck driver thats away 7 days in arow can also get others to train. Or kindergarden teacher thats on fieldtrip for 2 days? When it all comes down to it, its just a job like everyother job. Either change rules in general, or leave and let it count for all. I see no point in making sepcial rules for special groups. How a bout kids that go to school, and is not allowed to stay up later than 20.00? should they only pay for those hours then... and you can go on. Rules are rules, no matter job, age, gender, race, location etc etc. Just my opinion Because we are talking about stuff ALOT longer then a year. And by the tone of your post, come back and talk when you are old enough to enlist and let the big people talk untill you are. 0.1 Isk to any mod that adds to my sig.
Rock Lobster Solarflare Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:08:00 - [76] Er...take a laptop to Iraq with you? I'm pretty sure there's internet and electricity in Iraq.
Steel Tigeress Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:20:00 - [77] Edited by: Steel Tigeress on 03/07/2007 13:24:07 Originally by: Selarana Velori Edited by: Selarana Velori on 03/07/2007 13:08:02 Quote: That warmongering could easily have started AFTER he joined. Somehow I doubt he is 180 years old Oh and about your subjectivism...yes the crusaders wouldn't have considered themselves to be warmongers, too. So yeah thats correct. But all I am saying is: That is just something he will have to accept. CCP probably won't do something about this. Somehow I doubt you know what the heck you are talking about as it was a lot more recent than 180 years that America tried to stay out of things. That time was in the 1930's. The US tried to keep out of it and let EU take care of their own issues, but got dragged into it anyways. You should be glad, remeber that you could verry well be speaking german right now... 0.1 Isk to any mod that adds to my sig.
Steel Tigeress Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:24:00 - [78] Originally by: Rock Lobster Er...take a laptop to Iraq with you? I'm pretty sure there's internet and electricity in Iraq. Yes there is, and yes there is. But depending on your camps leadership, you cant have personal access to internet for security reasons. Meening you can access the internet, but only on gov'nt computers run in cafes for checking email and contacting home. And no big surprise, you are not allowed to install any software on said computers. So basically when it comes to gaming, you can do little more than read and post on the forums while deployed. 0.1 Isk to any mod that adds to my sig.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:28:00 - [79] Edited by: Ogul on 03/07/2007 13:29:00 Edited by: Ogul on 03/07/2007 13:27:44 Originally by: Steel Tigeress Somehow I doubt you know what the heck you are talking about as it was a lot more recent than 180 years that America tried to stay out of things. That time was in the 1930's. The US tried to keep out of it and let EU take care of their own issues, but got dragged into it anyways. You should be glad, remeber that you could verry well be speaking german right now... Linkage I like to speak german. The only thing I am glad about is that the European part of WW2 ended differently from the pacific one.
Ulii	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:31:00 - [80] Originally by: Steel Tigeress Originally by: Selarana Velori Edited by: Selarana Velori on 03/07/2007 13:08:02 Quote: That warmongering could easily have started AFTER he joined. Somehow I doubt he is 180 years old Oh and about your subjectivism...yes the crusaders wouldn't have considered themselves to be warmongers, too. So yeah thats correct. But all I am saying is: That is just something he will have to accept. CCP probably won't do something about this. Somehow I doubt you know what the heck you are talking about as it was a lot mor recent than 180 years that America tried to stay out of things. That time was in the 1930's. The US thried to keep out of it and let EU take care of their own issues, but got dragged into it anyways. Next time you post such blatant filth, remeber that you could verry well be speaking german right now... does it really matters? he is most likely not 70 ether. The big issue is that he thinks he is entitled to some special treatment because he kills people and supress their right to choose their own form of government. yes, i do think that a people choose to be ruled, even by a dictator. you can not be ruled by someone you dont want to be ruled by. the prise might get quite high for not beeing ruled (torture, your life, every one you know's life and so on) but it is your choise. and as such, to go in with force without any other reason than your belief in a special form of government and some highly doubtfull inteligence sugesting they might have some form of dangerous weapon that you have thousands of, is bordering to tyrany and megalomania
Fenren	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:33:00 - [81] Originally by: Steel Tigeress Originally by: Rock Lobster Er...take a laptop to Iraq with you? I'm pretty sure there's internet and electricity in Iraq. Yes there is, and yes there is. But depending on your camps leadership, you cant have personal access to internet for security reasons. Meening you can access the internet, but only on gov'nt computers run in cafes for checking email and contacting home. And no big surprise, you are not allowed to install any software on said computers. So basically when it comes to gaming, you can do little more than read and post on the forums while deployed. you can run eve from a memory stick... Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello! Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Steel Tigeress Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:33:00 - [82] Broken link. And dont get me wrong, as a country the US sticks its nose alot of places it has no buisness. But on the other hand the alternatives arnt verry pleasent either. 0.1 Isk to any mod that adds to my sig.
Steel Tigeress Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:38:00 - [83] Quote: you can run eve from a memory stick... That may be possible, probably depends on you particulare camps leadership as to whether or not they would allow it. They really frowned on any software use for any types of communication used that wasn't on their computers. Even just email programs on memory sticks. But again that was somthing decided on by the base commanders over there. It may work, but I wouldn't count on it. 0.1 Isk to any mod that adds to my sig.
Ulii	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:39:00 - [84] Snip -ReverendM
MuthaTrucka Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:40:00 - [85] Just get either a Normal Power of Attorney or a limited Power of Attorney that includes your Online Gaming accounts. For all Legal Recourse in the US that person is Technically "you". In a legal battle the POA will override the EULA at all times. Doesn;t matter what the EULA reads the Limited POA Subjects CCP to reconizing that person as if they were You. My limited POA when I deployed specifically stated about my online accounts and the CC they were linked too. I am quite positive that if the person in my POA could clean out my back accounts,sell all my trash,and Run my credit card through the roof and the Government would do nothing, then CCP doesn't have any chance with a Broad and almost unenfocable EULA, not to mention that the JAG would love a nice court case. --------------- Don't Call me a Carebear, I don't really care about much at all.
Morghana Seputila	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:48:00 - [86] Originally by: Steel Tigeress Because we are talking about stuff ALOT longer then a year. And by the tone of your post, come back and talk when you are old enough to enlist and let the big people talk untill you are. I have been enlisted, and took the tour. Has nothing to do with this. This is a _game_ and nothing more. People sharing accounts are no better than chinese farmers that people whine about on these forums all the time, no matter chosen profession in RL life. I could twist it and say, if you choose a profession as professional solider, and you care more about EVE than getting home in 1 piece, then maybe you should get older before you enlist. - When you open for account sharing for some, you also open it for other groups like ISK sellers. When several people play on a toon, it will never be fair. FX Some guy in iraq, or the truck driver - hes wife, whos going home, can log in and make sure hes training 24/7 - but the lawyer og factory worker miss couple of hours of training each day, cause noone is training for him. You cant have it both ways - either its completely closed, or completely open. I for one think closed is better, and others may think open is better. ps: Dont judge a persons personal experience by the way one writes on a forum like this. you have _no_ idea. Language/cultural barrieres (spelling see?) makes it kind of hard m8. So please stay on subject gamewise, and leave personal stuff out will you. Thank you in advance
Orion Eridanus Dark Nova Crisis	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:50:00 - [87] This thread is going to get locked fast as it is spiraling into politics, BUT to support the OP, cause its obvious some of you will never ever join the military unless you are drafted, it is more difficult than you think to get internet access when deployed. Yes there are rec centers over there that offer internet services, but they do frown upon games being played as it eats up bandwidth and interfere's with other people using the internet. In addition to that there are times when you have to be away from the foward operating bases for over a month at a time, so whats he's supposed to do about that if he doesnt have any month long skills to train? So what if you miss out on training time, chances are its because you over slept, or didnt plan ahead properly, where as he knew ahead of time but there is really nothing he can do about it. To the person that did the medic/soldier refrence, soldier is a broad term applied to everyone in the army, just as Marine is applied to all Marines regardless of what they actually do in their respective branch. If I were to see him in uniform and not see his rank and needed some thing from him I would say "Excuse me, soldier....." just as if he were to see me in uniform without knowning my rank he would say "Excuse me Marine." Just because he is a soldier doesnt mean he is an actual infantryman. To all my fellow men and women currently deployed in uniform, stay safe over there, dont worry about this jack asses back here, I'll deal with them for you since I'm out now, just focus on your job over there and come home alive.

ReverendM Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:58:00 - [88] Thread Cleaned Let me review a couple things: This is not a political forum. (Rule 17) This is not a rant thread. (Rule 5) If you do not like a particular country, or have some sort of grievance against it, leave it at the door. (Rule 4 & 7) Be respectful of each other, and leave real world politics and biases behind. This is the last warning. -ReverendM eve-crc.net \| Common Ideas \| Forum Rules

Sunny Mooninite Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.03 14:16:00 - [89] Edited by: Sunny Mooninite on 03/07/2007 14:17:13 CCP should create a web application that lets people change skill training. EDIT: woops, just read the mad GMs post. Politcal stuff removed. Support the troops, not Bush. --- CCP wishes they could do this
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 14:31:00 - [90] Originally by: Morghana Seputila This is a _game_ and nothing more. People sharing accounts are no better than chinese farmers that people whine about on these forums all the time Why is training someone's character for them the same as chinese farmers? You claim they somehow interlink but have no argument to support it. It's like comparing bank-robbing with loaning money from a friend and trying to make them appear the same. Quote: When you open for account sharing for some, you also open it for other groups like ISK sellers. When several people play on a toon, it will never be fair. FX Some guy in iraq, or the truck driver - hes wife, whos going home, can log in and make sure hes training 24/7 - but the lawyer og factory worker miss couple of hours of training each day, cause noone is training for him. You cant have it both ways - either its completely closed, or completely open. You are mistaken. And you still fail to provide with any grounding to what helping someone out with training a character has to do with ISK-selling. Allowing someone to train or use your account for you while you're deployed is like lending him your car and your car keys. If you trust someone to do it, that's fine... it does not make you a drunk driver, or a madman, you don't have anything to support this claim. Quote: I for one think closed is better, and others may think open is better. And this should be left to you, if you do not wish to have anyone help you train your account, this is all in your control. But just because you believe this doesn't mean that your way of thinking should limit the ways for those who do. - Recruitment open again-
Ulii	Posted - 2007.07.03 14:34:00 - [91] Originally by: Sunny Mooninite Edited by: Sunny Mooninite on 03/07/2007 14:17:13 CCP should create a web application that lets people change skill training. EDIT: woops, just read the mad GMs post. Politcal stuff removed. snipped out some pollitics for safety I barely dare to post this... he seems quite angry, and partly on me (understandably)... that has been discussed a lot and it seems that they wont do it because they want people to log in to do things and because the risk of char farming
Ulii	Posted - 2007.07.03 14:41:00 - [92] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin You are mistaken. And you still fail to provide with any grounding to what helping someone out with training a character has to do with ISK-selling. Allowing someone to train or use your account for you while you're deployed is like lending him your car and your car keys. If you trust someone to do it, that's fine... it does not make you a drunk driver, or a madman, you don't have anything to support this claim. I do not think CCP are looking for people hwo lets someone else change a skill a few times a year. but if they use one account to play, because one for example works night, then ccp loose money and that is not good for us, and as such it should not be allowed. Quote: And this should be left to you, if you do not wish to have anyone help you train your account, this is all in your control. But just because you believe this doesn't mean that your way of thinking should limit the ways for those who do. as long as that is the only thing he does i seriusly doubt that he will get banned. but he wont get help if he gets in trouble because of it
Shoten Zenjin Caldari C O B R A	Posted - 2007.07.03 14:48:00 - [93] WOW... IS CCP THAT COLD BLOODED? I dont think so. See your out trying to protect this world! And I really dont think they would get all up in your b.eye for having the wife train your skills well your out getting shot at and bombs blowing you all over the place! (IN THE NAME OF FREEDOM AND JUSTICE) And to tell ya the truth that would really tick me off and alot of the other guys in the service who play this game when not on duty or active in other places in our world! Dont stress it. I really dont think there is much to it other than the wife logging in and swaping skills! And anyone who has a problem with it is more then welcome to speak up about it. Its just not going to do you any good to flame about this mans wife training his skills well he is out risking his life for our way of life! And GRUMBLING about that is a shame that cant be wiped away! He is owed at least the wife being able to log on and train his skills! TY MURTIFIC for your work and the risks you take too keep OUR LIFES SAFE AND HAPPY! Good Luck to you and yours! ZENJIN
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 14:59:00 - [94] Originally by: Auron Shadowbane Originally by: Alis Aquilae The wife thing should work fine, I believe there is an exception for direct family? Even if it's not "legaly right" there is no way to proof it. Same IP, same Computer, same ISP = same person. Thats how whole economies of isk farmers work around getting bannhammered... Let's say the wife says in corp-chat that she's training the account for him, apparently CCP uses this against the account holder. - Recruitment open again-
Seamus Rooke Minmatar Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.03 15:00:00 - [95] I have been deployed before. Of course I was playing online games at the time as well. On my second deployment I actually sent a email to the companies to explain my situation. While I was not expecting much I was surprised to find that there a few that will provide options to those faced with deployment (nationality wasn't a factor). From reading their rules I wouldn't of known about this options as they weren't really advertised, rather a case by case granting.
Ulii	Posted - 2007.07.03 15:05:00 - [96] Edited by: Ulii on 03/07/2007 15:05:20 Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Let's say the wife says in corp-chat that she's training the account for him, apparently CCP uses this against the account holder. and rightly so! it is a violation of the eula!! if she only changed skills it would be allright (or most likely even if she stated that but he had loyal corp members(loyal to him, not to ccp)) especially since they just warn the first time, as you stated.
Viktor VonCarstein Amarr Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2007.07.03 15:23:00 - [97] Edited by: Viktor VonCarstein on 03/07/2007 15:22:35 To change skills while deployed on ops with only restricted internet web access. Leave you computer on at home connected to the internet and set Logmein. www.logmein.com This is like remote desktop via a webpage and doesn't matter if the remote desktop port is blocked. I use it when am at work or am deployed. You can't play the game as its refresh rate is to slow but you can change skills and even send evemails or chat in text box. By setting up logmein on your home computer you can access your home computer from any other pc,laptop etc with internet web access http://hell-raisers.xippy.co.uk
Shoten Zenjin Caldari C O B R A	Posted - 2007.07.03 15:24:00 - [98] WOW... once again I get flamed! Quote: ffs cant you read??? they have stated that no politics is allowed! There is no politics my post! Nothing to debate.. THE RULES SET BY THIS GAME CANNOT OVERRIDE LAWS! He is married! And his wife is owner of 1/2 everything! And has power of attorney. And that just so happens to give her the rights to his accounts. Banks and any others invested in with family funds! I had to call my attorney And ask! And he sayed after faxing the rules to him that! "It would only be a violation if she had no power of attorney. She has all legal rights to take care of ALL things owned and or payed for VIA family funds. And that includes this account he payed for!" SO NO DEBATE CANT FIGHT LAW!
Minith Jin Amarr RSP Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.03 15:27:00 - [99] Originally by: Viktor VonCarstein Leave you computer on at home connected to the internet and set Logmein. I'd look forward to coming back after a year to see the electricity bill :P ------- Killing innocents since Jan 06
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.07.03 15:59:00 - [100] You knew when before you gave your account to someone that sharing your account was against the rules as does everyone else in the game who even pays attention to the community. I'm assuming you and the rest of your friends got caught one way or another. Now that you've been caught you make an uproar on the forums for change. You willingly broke the rules in order to keep your character developed. It is not CCP's fault you broke the rules. A lot of people think the rules should be changed and a lot of people think a new function to the skill system should be added (queing). I don't care and neither does CCP if you have a problem with getting caught breaking the rules. You made that choice just like a drunk driver made the choice to get drunk and lose the ability to make good decisions. Personally I think the ability to queue up skills would be awesome but until then your best bet is to turn off your account until you get home. Was it worth losing all that stuff that these people could have asked for? --- Put in space whales!
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 16:12:00 - [101] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 03/07/2007 16:11:53 Originally by: Lisento Slaven You knew when before you gave your account to someone that sharing your account was against the rules as does everyone else in the game who even pays attention to the community. I'm assuming you and the rest of your friends got caught one way or another. Now that you've been caught you make an uproar on the forums for change. You willingly broke the rules in order to keep your character developed. It is not CCP's fault you broke the rules. He never claimed that, he simply claimed that the rules in certain circumstances are inadequate, and that the application of them should allow for some consideration from those who apply them. In this case the GM:s. Quote: A lot of people think the rules should be changed and a lot of people think a new function to the skill system should be added (queing). I don't care and neither does CCP If CCP did not care, they would admit to not caring for some of their customers. They do care. Otherwise threads like these would not be allowed to prevail. Don't assume to speak for CCP. Quote: if you have a problem with getting caught breaking the rules. You made that choice just like a drunk driver made the choice to get drunk and lose the ability to make good decisions. Your analogy is flawed. Allowing a friend to train your account for you when you cannot has nothing to do with drinking and driving. Get to your senses, where you drunk when you made that thing up? Quote: Personally I think the ability to queue up skills would be awesome but until then your best bet is to turn off your account until you get home. Was it worth losing all that stuff that these people could have asked for? Agreed, it would be a welcome feature. I would personally prefer if I could let a friend train my account for me if I was absent for a longer period of time, and would like the EULA to be extended thus far. As for your latter part of the above quote, who knows of what you speak. - Recruitment open again-
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2007.07.03 16:23:00 - [102] Maybe it's due to the snippage, but reading that first post I'm not exactly sure what happened. Anyway, that's all pretty unimportant really. Take care of yourself in Iraq, keep your head down, and come back safe mate.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 16:27:00 - [103] Originally by: Fink Angel Maybe it's due to the snippage, but reading that first post I'm not exactly sure what happened. Anyway, that's all pretty unimportant really. Take care of yourself in Iraq, keep your head down, and come back safe mate. His matter is simple, he wishes to have someone train his account while he is deployed. And the EULA forbids it. - Recruitment open again-
Gothikia	Posted - 2007.07.03 16:38:00 - [104] I agree that we should be able to grant access to our accounts to those that we trust to take care of skill training and such things. Many moons ago, myself and two friends used to take care of each others accounts, but we cant do that anymore since CCP decided to get all ****y with people accessing other accounts. --- sig nerfed again... ú$~"$%#
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 16:40:00 - [105] Originally by: Gothikia I agree that we should be able to grant access to our accounts to those that we trust to take care of skill training and such things. Many moons ago, myself and two friends used to take care of each others accounts, but we cant do that anymore since CCP decided to get all ****y with people accessing other accounts. It's just so senseless... what possible hurt can it be when you weren't abusing the game-mechanics, or hacking, or whatnot? - Recruitment open again-
Callente Riveara Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.03 17:00:00 - [106] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Fink Angel Maybe it's due to the snippage, but reading that first post I'm not exactly sure what happened. Anyway, that's all pretty unimportant really. Take care of yourself in Iraq, keep your head down, and come back safe mate. His matter is simple, he wishes to have someone train his account while he is deployed. And the EULA forbids it. Then the EULA needs to be changed. That is absolutely ridiculous. Its hard enough that he is in a ****hole like Iraq, but to get gimped in a game that he enjoys because his country needs him is just stupid and IMO if CCP doesnt let a soldier share his account with some one from the SAME IP, that just shameful.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.07.03 17:12:00 - [107] Originally by: Minith Jin Originally by: Viktor VonCarstein Leave you computer on at home connected to the internet and set Logmein. I'd look forward to coming back after a year to see the electricity bill :P 1) Email wife "turn on pc honey" 2) Change skill, say hi to corpmates "I'm dodging real bullets you sissies!". 3) Email wife "turn off pc honey".
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.03 17:22:00 - [108] Originally by: Malcanis Yeah, and why should anyone deserve any consideration for offering to do that? Jeez, the guy volunteers to give up a number of freedoms - including the freedom to stay or go as he choose - in order to risk his life for his country and all you can do is talk like some low level helpdesk monkey. I'm sure you think you're being very "hardcore" and "old EvE player" and all that, but actually you just sound like a little kid crying it's not fair that your big brother is allowed to stay up an hour later than you. you really just hit the nail on the head though didn't you, he GAVE UP his freedom to play the game. And now he is whining that it didn't go his way. I served my country for a term of service and you just have to accept that you cant have everything YOUR way Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon!
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.07.03 17:41:00 - [109] it is not illegal until you get cough goes the saying. Just don't get cough... ----------- It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone...
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.07.03 17:42:00 - [110] Call me crazy, but you should worry about getting home alive much more about what your make-believe character is doing in an inconsequental game. You could die over there ffs man, get your priorities straight.
Cerodus Balsarferskratchin Inc Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.03 17:46:00 - [111] I agree, the eula is flawed in some ways but I don't see anything changing soon. I do wish for your safety while on deployment. I just got back from mine a few weeks ago and look forward to the safe return of all my buddies who are still over there. I had my brother train my acct. while I was away. Worked for us, but we're both addicts as well.
Viro Melchior	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:00:00 - [112] Hey, I feel that some account sharing is going to happen no matter what, and that should be "at your risk". CCP has said that they aren't going to make training skills any more accessible, unfortunately. But perhaps we could convince them to set something up like this: ------------------------------ Leave of absence request Accessible while logged in on the EVE site. Includes date of departure and date of return. Required minimum leave of 60 days. A time period for the leave is selected, and the EVE software on the site (that lets you see skills and all that) lets you select a queue of skills to train. If needed, restrictions could be placed on what is selectable. After an email confirmation (to help prevent hacking into accounts and forcing this), the account is banned from logging in for the period, but will automatically select a new skill each time one finishes. Minor tweaks such as "longest queued skill selectable gets trained first" could be used to stop people from using this to train 2 months worth of crappy short skills that can be a pain to switch between, or who knows what else CCP/players would think of. ------------------------------ This way, EVE players who are for any reason prevented from playing the game for a period of time (such as military deployment [or jail, lol]) would safely be able to continue paying for the game and knowing that their skills are training, without looking towards EULA violations. Additionally, because the account cannot be logged in during the timeframe, it can't be used by someone who would otherwise want to spend time logged in.
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:01:00 - [113] This type of issue comes up in just about any type of collaborative application. The usual solution is to add what is commonly called proxy access. That is to say a user would have the ability to designate certain tasks to another user with the understanding that they take responsibility for any actions caused by that user. I understand the argument against a skill que (even if I don't agree with them), but there is a solution that solves both problems: have the ability to train a secondary skill should the first one finish, but pay a time penalty for reverting to that secondary skill. It could not kick in for 24 hours or it could train at a fraction of the speed as regular skill changing. That way those who do monitor their skills closely keep their advantage and those who don't still get their money's worth of training time. "Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather than the victim." - Bertrand Russell
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:15:00 - [114] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Call me crazy, but you should worry about getting home alive much more about what your make-believe character is doing in an inconsequental game. You could die over there ffs man, get your priorities straight. Call me crazy but to have something else to think about other than survival all day, such as what your character is training next might be the distraction that changes a sane man or an insane man coming home. - Recruitment open again-
ekkertnafnlaust Grettistak	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:27:00 - [115] i see no reason for special options for soldiers. i know ppl that work at sea for months at a time should they get special options too? hell infact i¦d rather give the sailors a break then the ppl getting paid for killing others
Cyrra Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:28:00 - [116] Just as there is always two sides to a coin. There are always two sides to a story. Murt got in trouble not cause his wife was training his account. As he has no wife. But because his CEO of his corp was training his account. And said corp was not smart enough to not brag about said account sharing in corp chat. That my friends is the exact reason they got in trouble and the gm's warned them. Not to mention the demanding of corp members account information if one is going to be allowed to fly corp owned capital ships. Again against the rules. And dont go bragging on TeamSpeak that account sharing is not wrong and that you do it all the time. I know its hard being deployed and its not fair that you cant train your account while gone. But why should he be exempt from the rules. When i had to take almost a year off due to RL issues you didnt see me or any other person who has RL issues come to the forums and whine and complain to get the rules changed to give them special treatment. If everybody else in EvE has to follow the rules so should they. I know it sucks to lose skill training time. I know my poor main lost a year, but you get over it. If the rules get changed to include account sharing so one can train while deployed, having RL issues that prevent you from playing, or just cause your lazy that will be a very sad day indeed. But take it from me, these two are not in trouble for no reason. They broke the rules and are now whining cause they got caught.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 18:50:00 - [117] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 03/07/2007 18:49:01 Originally by: Cyrra Just as there is always two sides to a coin. There are always two sides to a story. Murt got in trouble not cause his wife was training his account. As he has no wife. It was a hypothetical scenario cyrra. No details were revealed of the case in question, as that would be to discuss GM rulings, which is not allowed (murt did post two threads on this in the past that were locked). Quote: [...]said corp was not smart enough to not brag about said account sharing in corp chat. Oh, said corp "bragged" about training his account, how exactly do you propose that this bragging went on? "Yeah dude, hahaha, we're soo cool, I'm like... training this guys account!" -No ** dude? That must be so bad, training the account for someone who is deployed in Iraq man. How can you live with yourself? It's a violation of the EULA! Quote: That my friends is the exact reason they got in trouble and the gm's warned them. Not to mention the demanding of corp members account information if one is going to be allowed to fly corp owned capital ships. Again against the rules. And dont go bragging on TeamSpeak that account sharing is not wrong and that you do it all the time. Yes, you would know a lot of this, would you not? Since the only reason you would make such claim is that you didn't get free capital skill books and access to a dread. Which was the correct decision, since you and the guy with you decided to steal when you left. Your position in the matter surely must be objective Quote: I know its hard being deployed and its not fair that you cant train your account while gone. But why should he be exempt from the rules. When i had to take almost a year off due to RL issues you didnt see me or any other person who has RL issues come to the forums and whine and complain to get the rules changed to give them special treatment. If everybody else in EvE has to follow the rules so should they. I know it sucks to lose skill training time. I know my poor main lost a year, but you get over it. And if it were allowed, and you had paid your account for that year, it should be allowed for everyone. Quote:** If the rules get changed to include account sharing so one can train while deployed, having RL issues that prevent you from playing, or just cause your lazy that will be a very sad day indeed. But take it from me, these two are not in trouble for no reason. They broke the rules and are now whining cause they got caught. The rule was broken, yes. No one denied that, this discussion however takes place because the rules are disagreed with in this particular case. Why account sharing is disallowed makes sense in regards of with what happens if someone gains access to someones account maliciously, without their agreement and causes harm to said account. That is something I think we all can agree on that there should be measures to prevent. However, the harmless training of someone's skills? Truly, rules are made as a ways to stop activities where at least one of the parties suffers. In the case of the account stealing, one party suffers. But what is the harm of having someone train their skills for them when they cannot? This is what we are discussing, feel free to stay on topic. - Recruitment open again-
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:00:00 - [118] Edited by: Sebastien LeReparteur on 03/07/2007 19:01:30 Originally by: Tobias Sjodin However, the harmless training of someone's skills? Truly, rules are made as a ways to stop activities where at least one of the parties suffers. In the case of the account stealing, one party suffers. But what is the harm of having someone train their skills for them when they cannot? This is what we are discussing, feel free to stay on topic. The main reason is it is very tough for CCP to see the difference between both. Any hacker could just go set that option ON after popping your account and say l0ook it was ON... Also this opens up Cyno net issues, your friend looses your dread while your are abroad and will go complain to CCP saying he used my account but undocked "Whinneee"... The only solution I see is no hear, no say, no see Hell I am sure that at some point or another most CCP staff on ISD member did the same too... Else this would have been closed a while ago. ----------- It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone...
Leena Hope	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:03:00 - [119] Edited by: Leena Hope on 03/07/2007 19:02:46 I just dont agree with account sharing in any way. Even harmless little skill training. Why should i have to log in each and every time my skill is finished but others shouldnt have to. Yes being deployed is a pretty good arguement for account sharing, but its still against the rules. If i have to sit at my pc each and every time my skill is up. so should everybody else. Period. Its just too close to "Twinking" as its called in other games. Edit: oops forgot to change to main. Main is: Cyrra
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:08:00 - [120] Originally by: Leena Hope Edited by: Leena Hope on 03/07/2007 19:02:46 I just dont agree with account sharing in any way. Even harmless little skill training. Why should i have to log in each and every time my skill is finished but others shouldnt have to. Yes being deployed is a pretty good arguement for account sharing, but its still against the rules. If i have to sit at my pc each and every time my skill is up. so should everybody else. Period. Its just too close to "Twinking" as its called in other games. Edit: oops forgot to change to main. Main is: Cyrra Ya i forgot this one too, skill farmers would love it... They would train all those little skills for a fee like you can do for WOW and all. All those skill you can;t do cause they always happen to take more or less time then you can schedule... ----------- It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone...
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:08:00 - [121] Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur The main reason is it is very tough for CCP to see the difference between both. Any hacker could just go set that option ON after popping your account and say l0ook it was ON... Except the original account holder would know, and he could report such activity immediately. Quote: Also this opens up Cyno net issues, your friend looses your dread while your are abroad and will go complain to CCP saying he used my account but undocked "Whinneee"... The only solution I see is no hear, no say, no see Hell I am sure that at some point or another most CCP staff on ISD member did the same too... Else this would have been closed a while ago. Yes, I can appreciate the difficulty of this scenario. This is why I think that there needs to be some form of an agreement. Like in the case of Murtific, he could give away the right to use his account while he is deployed, and during the time he does all his rights to complain about eg. lost assets are withdrawn. Murtific obviously trusts the second party, so for him there would be no problem, and for CCP, that would put them without responsibility, since Murtific agreed beforehand. Hence the training would be legal. Sounds fair? - Recruitment open again-
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:12:00 - [122] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur The main reason is it is very tough for CCP to see the difference between both. Any hacker could just go set that option ON after popping your account and say l0ook it was ON... Except the original account holder would know, and he could report such activity immediately. Quote: Also this opens up Cyno net issues, your friend looses your dread while your are abroad and will go complain to CCP saying he used my account but undocked "Whinneee"... The only solution I see is no hear, no say, no see Hell I am sure that at some point or another most CCP staff on ISD member did the same too... Else this would have been closed a while ago. Yes, I can appreciate the difficulty of this scenario. This is why I think that there needs to be some form of an agreement. Like in the case of Murtific, he could give away the right to use his account while he is deployed, and during the time he does all his rights to complain about eg. lost assets are withdrawn. Murtific obviously trusts the second party, so for him there would be no problem, and for CCP, that would put them without responsibility, since Murtific agreed beforehand. Hence the training would be legal. Sounds fair? Cyno net again? What prevents A from login in again to have 2 accounts manage skills? Player farmer anyone? check the trade forum... This as to remain the way it is... ----------- It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone...
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:13:00 - [123] Originally by: Leena Hope Edited by: Leena Hope on 03/07/2007 19:02:46 I just dont agree with account sharing in any way. Even harmless little skill training. Why should i have to log in each and every time my skill is finished but others shouldnt have to. Yes being deployed is a pretty good arguement for account sharing, but its still against the rules. If i have to sit at my pc each and every time my skill is up. so should everybody else. Period. Its just too close to "Twinking" as its called in other games. Edit: oops forgot to change to main. Main is: Cyrra So if a change to the EULA was made to allow say a friend of yours, let's call him Aduna, to train your skills you would object to that? Yeah, right. - Recruitment open again-
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:14:00 - [124] Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur Cyno net again? What prevents A from login in again to have 2 accounts manage skills? Player farmer anyone? check the trade forum... This as to remain the way it is... Please clarify. - Recruitment open again-
Cyrra Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:21:00 - [125] Actually no i wouldnt let anybody log into my account, friend or not. too much potental for abuse. And even if ccp ruled it as ok, i still wouldnt do it.
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:21:00 - [126] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur Cyno net again? What prevents A from login in again to have 2 accounts manage skills? Player farmer anyone? check the trade forum... This as to remain the way it is... Please clarify. Clarify what? CEO get access to all account fro months can use accounts for Cynonet... You pay CCP and won't be allowed you to use the account in the mean while, right... Account aren't IP bound, you could just login in back at any time. But now CEO as a right to use account for Cyno net "Oh I just switched one skill of BS 5 to another cruiser 5 and dropped a Cyno while I logged on for fun you know..." Players farmer for isk for $$$, but now 24h able to do it because ULA won't mind/prevent give tools against abuses... ----------- It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone...
Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:35:00 - [127] You could repetition and escalate the matter to a senior GM, based on what other posters have said about the EULA. If they ban accounts that have been reported as sharing, it must be because of policy rather than actually infringing the EULA. Of course, whoever it gets escalated to might not change anything... or even might make it worse. Personally I think it's a ridiculous decision by the GM, and there needs to be some better mechanism in place for getting consistent GM decisions. Petitions that are blatant out of game personal attacks should be rubbished. The only person that finding against you helps is this suspected guy who ratted you out. RL Police happily trash nonsensical and out of proportion complaints all the time. The acronym for it is "LOB". Prize for anyone who guesses what that means
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:38:00 - [128] Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur Clarify what? CEO get access to all account fro months can use accounts for Cynonet... You pay CCP and won't be allowed you to use the account in the mean while, right... Account aren't IP bound, you could just login in back at any time. But now CEO as a right to use account for Cyno net "Oh I just switched one skill of BS 5 to another cruiser 5 and dropped a Cyno while I logged on for fun you know..." Players farmer for isk for $$$, but now 24h able to do it because ULA won't mind/prevent give tools against abuses... I think you're being very vague, you mean that there are CEO:s who have access to whole networks of accounts? - Recruitment open again-
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:16:00 - [129] does balad have a similar setup to basrah and other nearby areas, some have a civvie run cabin (small fee, not too bad) with unrestricted internet use, you could always lob/install eve onto a usb stick and login that way. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Murtific Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.03 22:08:00 - [130] Interesting, opinions are like buttholes, everybody has one =] Some of you ham on people who find some things (like gaming) relaxing. Going to leave it at that. Through all the condacending crap I read through of the past 12 hours since I last was on shift, I only gather a few ideas that are worth anything. For those of you who put forward constructive thoughts, great job.
Jaysc	Posted - 2007.07.03 23:27:00 - [131] Edited by: Jaysc on 03/07/2007 23:28:35
Aduna Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.03 23:30:00 - [132] ya know, i swore that i wouldn't reply to this topic, but right now i feel that i cannot. i want to state right now: i had nothing to do with this whatsoever. i never made a petition about this, so if you have a leak, it must have come from someone else Tobias. again, i did not petition on this as i may have left OMG in bad faith after a misunderstanding incident, but i would not betray intra-corp secrets i was privy to. moreso, if i was gonna, i would have done it a long time ago. wrong guy. Tobias/Murt: i find your attempts to try to blatantly pin this on me as just sad. and yes Murt, you meant exactly me in your first post. you couldn't outright mention my name without the post being deleted, but i'm not an idiot either. perhaps i should link the post from the pirate forum to prove this? i will if you deny it, and then all can see for themselves. again, i had nothing to do with this petition whatsoever. i suggest OMG look indoors at their own people, either corp or alliance that would do this. i have no axe to grind against my former corporation or its memberbase, and i would take no action that would result in stuff like this going down. it's petty and stupid, and i would think that you all know me better than that.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.04 00:03:00 - [133] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 04/07/2007 00:05:04 n/m I realize it's not worth the effort. - Recruitment open again-
Zomiaen Gallente Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.04 00:36:00 - [134] Edited by: Zomiaen on 04/07/2007 00:39:45 Originally by: Aduna ya know, i swore that i wouldn't reply to this topic, but right now i feel that i cannot. i want to state right now: i had nothing to do with this whatsoever. i never made a petition about this, so if you have a leak, it must have come from someone else Tobias. again, i did not petition on this as i may have left OMG in bad faith after a misunderstanding incident, but i would not betray intra-corp secrets i was privy to. moreso, if i was gonna, i would have done it a long time ago. wrong guy. Tobias/Murt: i find your attempts to try to blatantly pin this on me as just sad. and yes Murt, you meant exactly me in your first post. you couldn't outright mention my name without the post being deleted, but i'm not an idiot either. perhaps i should link the post from the pirate forum to prove this? i will if you deny it, and then all can see for themselves. again, i had nothing to do with this petition whatsoever. i suggest OMG look indoors at their own people, either corp or alliance that would do this. i have no axe to grind against my former corporation or its memberbase, and i would take no action that would result in stuff like this going down. it's petty and stupid, and i would think that you all know me better than that. We haven't blatantly accused you of anything, just merely suggested it. Why do you feel the need to deny something so vigorously of which you haven't been directly accused of? Now, on topic.....Personally, my humble opinion is that for military personnel from any country, who legitimately prove that they are unable to continue actually playing (deployment letters, whatever), should have somewhat of a special exemption, but on a very strict basis. Only one extra person controlling the account and such. ---
Icarrystuff	Posted - 2007.07.04 01:01:00 - [135] Originally by: Cyrra Actually no i wouldnt let anybody log into my account, friend or not. too much potental for abuse. And even if ccp ruled it as ok, i still wouldnt do it. This is the truth. Someone I know got one of his RL mates to log in to change a skill for him. While logged in the guy stole money from the corp wallet and put his carrier up for sale in a contract for 0 ISK.
Novemb3r Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.04 01:06:00 - [136] Originally by: Zomiaen Now, on topic.....Personally, my humble opinion is that for military personnel from any country, who legitimately prove that they are unable to continue actually playing (deployment letters, whatever), should have somewhat of a special exemption, but on a very strict basis. Only one extra person controlling the account and such. But if you make that exemption for them you have to make it for everyone. What if I'm a scientist who has to go to antarctica for a year? Or if I am an astronaut and have to go and live on the space station? Or a thousand and one other examples of people in the same situation? Are their jobs somehow less deserving? -
Zomiaen Gallente Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.04 01:18:00 - [137] Originally by: Novemb3r Originally by: Zomiaen Now, on topic.....Personally, my humble opinion is that for military personnel from any country, who legitimately prove that they are unable to continue actually playing (deployment letters, whatever), should have somewhat of a special exemption, but on a very strict basis. Only one extra person controlling the account and such. But if you make that exemption for them you have to make it for everyone. What if I'm a scientist who has to go to antarctica for a year? Or if I am an astronaut and have to go and live on the space station? Or a thousand and one other examples of people in the same situation? Are their jobs somehow less deserving? I suppose thats true. Perhaps it should just be each individuals choice, though as previously mentioned it beings up the question of people claiming their account was hacked after giving away account details. Theres a hole in that logic though, as CCP claims to know when you have shared your account via, yes, specifically mentioned, chat logs. If a claim is made that someone has their account hacked, is it not reasonable to say that CCP could simply check the logs as they claim to do now to verify? ---

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