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Ditch the Lame Insta-jump Bookmarks

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Zubenelgenubi	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:08:00 - [31] Instead of getting rid of bookmarks, maybe CCP should limit their use? Maybe you should only be allowed to 'carry' so many bookmarks at a time and maybe they begin to decay after a while so you have to 're-make' them every so often? What I think is unfair is that out of all the 5000 odd systems in EVE only a tiny fraction have gate-campers waiting for incomming ships at them. So why penalize all the other travellers in the game that probably don't go anywhere near those hotspots anyway? If there was a way to stop people insta-jumping only at gates where a pirate is waiting then I think that will be the fairest way to solve this 'problem' As for exploring with BM's, I personally have insta-jump BM's deep into 0.0. I use them to get to a region I want to explore anytime I feel like doing some deep-space surveying or NPC hunts. Having to travel many many jumps back into empire space afterwards becomes tiresome after a while and thats where the BM's come in handy.
Highway Man	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:09:00 - [32] Quote: With a name like Highway Man I assumed you was moaning about insta jumps due to your obvious lack of a clue of how to catch people. You come on here giving it the big I AM to folks you dont even know. Digging me out because of my lame name or peoples first language is pathetic. You are clearly the carebear in this thread, cry me a river How am I the cearbear? Am I the only one who thinks this needs fixing? NO Please go troll another thread.
Lord Guerdo	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:16:00 - [33] Quote: Edited by: Kunming on 23/01/2004 12:16:30 If u r so blood thursty then go kill each other. Some ppl cant play so long as others and those ppl dont want to wait for their ship to dock or jump for 5 min each!! Get a life and grow up, no one is going to please your "demands"! WHY NOT IT WORKS FOR THE GOD DAMN CAREBEAR COMMUNITY WHY NOT A LITTLE PAYBACK ASSHAT! I mean c'mon, just think about it. What would make more sense then the 3 most hated alliances teaming up to lay waste to the people they all hate anyways? CA is already allied with PA, and TPS lies between the two alliances. Natural allies to be sure. But it's not just that, all but PA (and even some of them) have adopted a "stfu and die, or come and fight us, we don't give a **** what you think or do" philosophy, as well as a PvP Kill everyone not friend kind of mentality. These are the people in eve that kill or convert, the ones dedicated to the death of others, because history, circumstance, and the rest of eve have driven then to do so (except TPS, who are just cool ass pirates ).
Woetra	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:23:00 - [34] Why is it always the people who don't use them that call them risk-free? Have these people tried hauling in a 0.0 sec warzone? Without bookmarks you'd die once every 10 jumps. It's all very well gearing things towards PvP but haulers took a heavy nerf to their speed since castor, and your precious megacyte supply would soon dry up. Sig Thief
Zubenelgenubi	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:23:00 - [35] Quote: How am I the cearbear? Am I the only one who thinks this needs fixing? NO Please go troll another thread. Ok, so you've made your point. You don't like insta-jump bookmarks. You think they are 'unfair'. So tell us YOUR solution that will - 1. Eliminate insta-jump bookmarks (making it fair for gate campers) and, 2. Still not penalize all the other thousands of non-gatecamping players that travel in and out of systems were those BM's don't effect anyone (i.e. because there is NO ONE camping them)? Simply saying all insta-jump BM's should go cause its unfair on the handful of people who MAY be camping a particular gate at a particular time is whats unfair. IMHO nothing needs 'fixing' as you put it. 'Fixing' something that will cater to a small minority of players at the expense of the rest of us is 'unfair'. Wait for the Warp Distruptor thingies! FFS!!!
Lord Guerdo	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:24:00 - [36] Quote: Making the game slower by nerfing ship speeds was understandable, but removing BM's will put an end to long distance travelling and exploring for me... and thus will end my time in EVE. I play to have fun, and travelling without BM's aint fun. If pirates are too dumb to figure out ways to get people who use BM's or are too impatient to wait for warp distruptors to come out then thats thier problem and not the games. For the record I know of TWO ways to still get ships that use insta-jump BM's (not always 100%) but it IS possible - I've had first-hand experience. cya can i have your stuff? I mean c'mon, just think about it. What would make more sense then the 3 most hated alliances teaming up to lay waste to the people they all hate anyways? CA is already allied with PA, and TPS lies between the two alliances. Natural allies to be sure. But it's not just that, all but PA (and even some of them) have adopted a "stfu and die, or come and fight us, we don't give a **** what you think or do" philosophy, as well as a PvP Kill everyone not friend kind of mentality. These are the people in eve that kill or convert, the ones dedicated to the death of others, because history, circumstance, and the rest of eve have driven then to do so (except TPS, who are just cool ass pirates ).
Kaspersky	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:33:00 - [37] Personally I like these idea of bookmarks. Lets face it.... we have a lot of space in Eve and very little means of accessing most of it. So I think that doing away with bookmarks would be further restricting our movement in space. Plus I appreciate being able to inst-jump/dock at a station. I like to jump between my cargo containers and station - saves me a heap load of time. What I would like to see in Eve is the expansion of the amount of space that players occupy. What I mean by this is that instead of decreasing everybody's effective speed (MWD/ABS) why not increase the distance a player has to travel to get to destination. This would increase the amount of space available to players and allow more easily for long-range combat. At the moment when you warp into a system the immediate game area consists of approx 100KM across. Why not double or even triple this - the scanner used to support these kind of distances, only recently has the scanner been limited to 100KM. Guess the moto here is to expand not contract!
Theodin	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:35:00 - [38] For starters I am not a pirate and have never been one so this has no direct effect to me. My feeling about insta jump BM's is they should be removed or adjusted in some way. I have seen posts on this thread about being lazy and if you can't be bothered placing them... Isn't it just as lazy to use them instead of traveling through space as the game was designed? Again they kill any sort of gate risk when jumping, why is there player that insist on traveling without any risk. Its not like there is much anyway so the slightest amount should be treasured. Finally and again this is only how I feel on the mater, space is meant to be a huge place reducing travel time with BM's only helps to make it seem smaller and less awe inspiring. If you have to travel 10 jumps at 250m/s then so be it. I guess there will never be a way to please everyone on this subject. There are so many players who are so eager to make billions as quick and easy as they can they forget to actually play the game! Where are the hero's and the brave, we live in a galaxy of fools and cowards
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:37:00 - [39] "cya can i have your stuff?" Gee, that's original! What a ****... "Trust No One"
Miss Take	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:44:00 - [40] Quote: "cya can i have your stuff?" Gee, that's original! What a ****... So you want his stuff then?
Malus NalJa'ka	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:45:00 - [41] Quote: Too lazy? FFS, that is not the issue. Its abusing weak game mechanics. For the record, I neither pirate OR pvp. I am a production guru. I mine for basics in 0.0, unlike your ilk I dont strip 1.0's in my "battleship" wink wink. Your Apoc has probably never left .5 space, LOL. One word comes to mind here: a$$hat I don't strip mine, I hate mining I have gone NPC hunting in group in 0.0, solo in 0.0 and I've had a PC pirate hunt in ( waddaya know ) 0.0 , I've lost an armageddon in 0.0. I'm the hauler for mining ops. I like going to 0.0 , I don't use insta jump bookmarks and most importantly, I don't troll like you. Get your facts straight before trying to diminish people. Your ignorance is highly disturbing ... -------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------
Zubenelgenubi	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:56:00 - [42] Quote: For starters I am not a pirate and have never been one so this has no direct effect to me. My feeling about insta jump BM's is they should be removed or adjusted in some way. I have seen posts on this thread about being lazy and if you can't be bothered placing them... Isn't it just as lazy to use them instead of traveling through space as the game was designed? Again they kill any sort of gate risk when jumping, why is there player that insist on traveling without any risk. Its not like there is much anyway so the slightest amount should be treasured. Finally and again this is only how I feel on the mater, space is meant to be a huge place reducing travel time with BM's only helps to make it seem smaller and less awe inspiring. If you have to travel 10 jumps at 250m/s then so be it. I guess there will never be a way to please everyone on this subject. There are so many players who are so eager to make billions as quick and easy as they can they forget to actually play the game! Yes, but there is only risk at the gate where a pirate is waiting. If I have to travel say 15 jumps across dangerous space, and there is a gatecamping pirate at the last gate on my journey, why can't I use an insta-jump bookmark on the previous 14 gates where NO ONE is waiting? The pirate should be happy! His prey gets to him much quicker! LOL!
babyblue	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:57:00 - [43] This would be another change to the benefit of pirates and gate campers. Personally, I use bookmark jumps to go from field back to station in both my indy and my cruiser. It isn't an exploit, its just quicker.
Wild Rho	Posted - 2004.01.23 16:06:00 - [44] If people dont like pirates camping the gates them either pay a corp to force them out or find another around it. better yet stick to empire space. At no time should anyone be able to travel through an activly pirated 0.0 area with impunity. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
Theodin	Posted - 2004.01.23 16:09:00 - [45] Quote: Yes, but there is only risk at the gate where a pirate is waiting. If I have to travel say 15 jumps across dangerous space, and there is a gatecamping pirate at the last gate on my journey, why can't I use an insta-jump bookmark on the previous 14 gates where NO ONE is waiting? The pirate should be happy! His prey gets to him much quicker! LOL! So what you saying is use 14 insta jumps to get to the gate camper, then just try your luck at running it the old fashioned way on the last? No I think you would insta all 15 eliminating all risk from the journey. There is no way to convince the regular insta jumper, just as there is no way to convince the 1.0 BS belt striper to change his ways. All we can do is point out that yes they gain an advantage for themselves but as a whole take away from the game! Where are the hero's and the brave, we live in a galaxy of fools and cowards
Zubenelgenubi	Posted - 2004.01.23 16:21:00 - [46] Edited by: Zubenelgenubi on 23/01/2004 16:34:26 Quote: Quote: Yes, but there is only risk at the gate where a pirate is waiting. If I have to travel say 15 jumps across dangerous space, and there is a gatecamping pirate at the last gate on my journey, why can't I use an insta-jump bookmark on the previous 14 gates where NO ONE is waiting? The pirate should be happy! His prey gets to him much quicker! LOL! So what you saying is use 14 insta jumps to get to the gate camper, then just try your luck at running it the old fashioned way on the last? No I think you would insta all 15 eliminating all risk from the journey. There is no way to convince the regular insta jumper, just as there is no way to convince the 1.0 BS belt striper to change his ways. All we can do is point out that yes they gain an advantage for themselves but as a whole take away from the game! Nope... read the previous replies. I mentioned that CCP's implementation of the deployable warp field disruptors will take care of anyone who tries to insta-jump. Everyone bangs on about the risk vs reward. Shouldn't there be a risk to the gatecamper too or does it only apply to indy pilots? If a pirate wants to 'catch' his prey he has to deploy the warp distruptor which by all accounts will be an expensive piece of equipment. Here's the risk for the pirate - should that incomming ship be a bounty hunter or rival corp member, the pirate has to consider leaving his valuable distruptor behind or staying and fighting. But should that incomming ship be a fat indy loaded with valuable ore, he's safe in the knowledge that that ship aint going no where and no insta-jump bookmark is gonna save that indy from a quick demise. If you want risk vs reward it has to work both ways. I see no problem with insta-jump bookmarks where there are no warp distruptors deployed.
Theodin	Posted - 2004.01.23 16:40:00 - [47] Quote: Nope... read the previous replies. I mentioned that CCP's implementation of the deployable warp field disruptors will take care of anyone who tries to insta-jump. Everyone bangs on about the risk vs reward. Shouldn't there be a risk to the gatecamper too or does it only apply to indy pilots? If a pirate wants to 'catch' his prey he has to deploy the warp distruptor which by all accounts wil be an expensive piece of equipment. Here's the risk for the pirate - should that incomming ship be a bounty hunter or rival corp member, the pirate has to consider leaving his valuable distrupor behind or staying and fighting. But should that incomming ship be a fat indy loaded with valuable ore, he's safe in the knowledge that that ship aint going no where and no insta-jump bookmark is gonna save that indy from a quick demise. If you want risk vs reward it has to work both ways. I see no problem with insta-jump bookmarks where there are no warp distruptors deployed. So you think a gate camper has no risk and its only the poor old indy that gets caught?? Isn't it part of the game you play hauling in low sec space. If you are happy to inst jump everywhere then you eliminate the random encounters that may happen. Yes they are going to bring in warp inhibiters but its not in game yet. Tell me this what if every single player in eve used insta jumps, what would happen to the game? Where are the hero's and the brave, we live in a galaxy of fools and cowards
Galea Wildfang	Posted - 2004.01.23 16:51:00 - [48] Quote: As per usual, leave it to the cearbears to make wrong assumptions. I never asked to get rid of all bookmarks did I? My whole point is that it is neigh impossible to hold territory as it is in Eve. These insta-jump bm's make it risk free to travel in 0.0 and prevent any group from controling territory. Before you flame on, take time TO READ THE BOX!!! It clearly emphasises territorial control. As for the increased travel time, I have no sympathy. Why should you abuse game mechanics while the rest of us take 30 sec's to gate? I don't mind a group of people controlling an area. But so far, they're usually just controlling the entrances to certain areas and claim they belong to them. I personally think, you a) will have to wait for the warp field interruption to come in b) should patrol the area you claim to control, and thus the mapfeatures of 'players in space' as well as 'docked and active players' should go without replacement. CCP did a few things because they weren't realistic (e.g. MWD/AB change), but knowing from one end of the galaxy to the other where and how many active players are around is ? 2 ISK (I'll get flamed for) shrug 'Life on Earth might be expensive, but it does include an anual free trip around the sun'
babyblue	Posted - 2004.01.23 16:57:00 - [49] Quote: Nope... read the previous replies. I mentioned that CCP's implementation of the deployable warp field disruptors will take care of anyone who tries to insta-jump. Everyone bangs on about the risk vs reward. Shouldn't there be a risk to the gatecamper too or does it only apply to indy pilots? If a pirate wants to 'catch' his prey he has to deploy the warp distruptor which by all accounts will be an expensive piece of equipment. Here's the risk for the pirate - should that incomming ship be a bounty hunter or rival corp member, the pirate has to consider leaving his valuable distruptor behind or staying and fighting. But should that incomming ship be a fat indy loaded with valuable ore, he's safe in the knowledge that that ship aint going no where and no insta-jump bookmark is gonna save that indy from a quick demise. If you want risk vs reward it has to work both ways. I see no problem with insta-jump bookmarks where there are no warp distruptors deployed. Good point. Insta-jump is fine if warp disrupters prevent it and are expensive for the pirate to deploy. But then, ugh, don't the indy pilots need a warp-field-disruptor-detector module? Otherwise, once again, it just isnt fair.
Theodin	Posted - 2004.01.23 17:00:00 - [50] Quote: Good point. Insta-jump is fine if warp disrupters prevent it and are expensive for the pirate to deploy. But then, ugh, don't the indy pilots need a warp-field-disruptor-detector module? Otherwise, once again, it just isnt fair. Whats this isn't fair you talk about??? Is it not possible for someone to have an advantage in this game or should we all be equal? Where are the hero's and the brave, we live in a galaxy of fools and cowards
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2004.01.23 17:05:00 - [51] "Whats this isn't fair you talk about??? Is it not possible for someone to have an advantage in this game or should we all be equal?" You should follow your own advice bud. Why do the pilots who put the time in to make the BM's not have the advantage? DUH! "Trust No One"
RedShadow	Posted - 2004.01.23 17:08:00 - [52] YES! Then I can catch 2600 :P It's OK! I had subway!
babyblue	Posted - 2004.01.23 17:10:00 - [53] Quote: Whats this isn't fair you talk about??? Is it not possible for someone to have an advantage in this game or should we all be equal? Nope, but every measure has to have some kind of counter measure, otherwise indy pilots/pilots of any kind who aren't PvP competent don't have a slight chance. If it were possible to fit some gadets to your indy that countered the warp disruptor at the expense of, say, cargo capacity, then the balance would be restored.
Soolin	Posted - 2004.01.23 17:21:00 - [54] Quote: "Whats this isn't fair you talk about??? Is it not possible for someone to have an advantage in this game or should we all be equal?" You should follow your own advice bud. Why do the pilots who put the time in to make the BM's not have the advantage? DUH! Couldn't have said it better myself!
Dukath	Posted - 2004.01.23 18:48:00 - [55] Quote: Nope, but every measure has to have some kind of counter measure, otherwise indy pilots/pilots of any kind who aren't PvP competent don't have a slight chance. If it were possible to fit some gadets to your indy that countered the warp disruptor at the expense of, say, cargo capacity, then the balance would be restored. There already is a countermeasure in the game. The scanner. First you check local, if there isn't anyone hostile in local then you can safely use your instajump. If there are hostiles then you scan the gate you wanna jump to and the scanner will tell you if there is an anti warp device or not. The main problem i have with instajumps is that ccp promised the anti warp devices 2 days after castor and they are still not here :/
bUBbLeS	Posted - 2004.01.23 22:07:00 - [56] instajumps and instadocks suck they are ebil the devils werk Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
Highway Man	Posted - 2004.01.24 08:11:00 - [57] I dont care about travel speeds. What I do care about is that fact taht these jokers can operate with NO RISK!!! Thats not how Eve is suppose to be played. It is an EXPLOIT and needs to be fixed. It was suppose to be done for castor, but the carebears cried to TomB until it was changed.
QuantumX	Posted - 2004.01.24 11:55:00 - [58] Edited by: QuantumX on 24/01/2004 11:57:24 Oh shut up, Bookmarks are a game mechanic and not an exploit. And that includes the Instajump bookmarks. Be a good person and wait for the warp disruption modules that will be released eventually. These will stop people with instajump bm's at the 0.0 choke points. Why the hell should CC redesign a game mechanic for the MINORITY of players. Any good pirate worth their salt still make plenty of kills, and controlling an area of space, mean removal of instajump bm's what a load of poo poo. Controlling an area of space means player controlled stations, player controlled sentry guns. Also my god perhaps controlling an area of space means patrolling the area your suppose to control, ie use the fricking map and look for player concentrations in 0.0 space. Hell maybe this might indicate an "illegal" mining op. But god forbid people use some noggin to play rather that whinge at a game mechanic. So get of yer arse and move around the systems looking for trespassers and have some fun hunting rather than nothing than 0.0 choke point camping. two 2isk worth, flame away.
KIAHicks	Posted - 2004.01.24 13:37:00 - [59] Quote: WTF, I am so tired of ppl who exploit the game with these. Any ETA on their final demise? Never gonna happen. Players wanted them removed. Helmar removed them. Other players then kicked up such a fuss that they were put back in. I'll wait to see how the warp disrupter fields actually work out. Whether their too expensive or too time consuming to plant to lock a system down or not etc.... We shouldn't have to wait too much longer, after all we were told they should be in a few days after castor.. so converting eve time to ccp time, thats what? Another few months tops :) Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
SwitchBl4d3	Posted - 2004.01.24 13:49:00 - [60] i dont see the point, just sit 2.5km from gate and follow them through they will pop at least 12.5km from the gate lock scramble, thats why u need frigs and signature analisis lvl 5 "Teh lord of Nonni"

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