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eVe economy balancing and removing ISKs idea.

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Fenren	Posted - 2007.07.09 13:33:00 - [31] Originally by: SiJira no, this is ludicrous i dont get charged tax from handing money over to another person they removed that from the things they tax in sweden about 2 years ago (or was it 3?) they used to tax it if you recieved more than 1k euros a year (independent of giver) not many people payed that tax... Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello! Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Christari Zuborov	Posted - 2007.07.09 13:36:00 - [32] Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 09/07/2007 13:37:14 Originally by: Evanda Char Surely if there was too much isk, we wouldn't be seeing the massive downspiral in tech 2 prices we have been? The price of the Tech2 market has to do with the price of minerals and trade goods. i.e. No builder bases his prices purely at market rate. Ideally it would be (minerals + bpc/bpo cost * 1.05 or 1.10) for a 5-10% profit markup. When invention came in, non-bpc/bpo holders followed this formula rather than pricing at market rate, or the bpc/bpo holders reduced their prices in anticipation of the influx of goods in addition to the mineral market collapse. With the prices of minerals coming back up, we should start seeing the prices of T2 ships increase also. Also, people are still burning through BPC's they created through invention, which apparently the risk has increased on producing a T2 BPCs since the last patch. Things should be interesting soon.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.09 13:39:00 - [33] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 09/07/2007 13:40:41 Eve needs isk sinks ? why ? I'd rather ask CCP to remove those isk sinks, that'll bring balance to the world : it'll make missions rewards and bounties (therefore mindless ratting) less profitable as the isk mass increases, whereas items gotten through looting and manufacturing and mining will get more and more expensive (more isk means isk will soon be worth less and less). Therefore : getting isk will much easier to do through trade, manufacturing, and mining. Given the choice, I'd rather boost mining and manufacturers a boost, rather than boost mission runners. Therefore I support the complete annihilation of some isk sinks !
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.09 14:10:00 - [34] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 09/07/2007 12:32:42 My idea on how to balance eVe economy and remove too much ISKs. Before I present my idea, I want to make my post credible by declaring that I am a RL economist with many years experience. Originally by: Someone Like You I'm really a good guy, I swear. I'm just in a weird situation right now. I mean, yeah I have a girlfriend but things have been really weird and stuff, but I'm really a nice guy, I promise. You can keep taking off my pants. If you have to declare that you're knowledgeable before you make a supposedly knowledgeable post, then you aren't. Your post should speak for itself. Link removed from signature - not appropriate for Eve Forums teen rating - Timmeh IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.09 14:11:00 - [35] Originally by: Evanda Char Surely if there was too much isk, we wouldn't be seeing the massive downspiral in tech 2 prices we have been? invention ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Dionisius Gallente Critical Analysis Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.07.09 14:12:00 - [36] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 09/07/2007 12:32:42 My idea on how to balance eVe economy and remove too much ISKs. Before I present my idea, I want to make my post credible by declaring that I am a RL economist with many years experience. Q. How to balance the economy and remove ISKs? A. My favourite word, tax. Implementation. eVe bank to tax 2% per transaction of ISKs transferred between players when players give ISKs to another character through trade window or wallet option. No. _______________________ Originally by: Splagada Edited by: Splagada on 21/06/2007 13:51:39 in eve you can break their windows, take over the house, and throw the children in the fire.
Trovarion Gallente Spiritus Draconis	Posted - 2007.07.09 14:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Cipher7 The notion that there is too much ISK in game is one held by people who sit in 0.0 and chain spawns every day without ever losing a ship. corrected that for you. Custom made EVE Sigs and Graphics
Onchas Erivvia Black Eclipse Corp	Posted - 2007.07.09 14:30:00 - [38] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I want to make my post credible by declaring that I am a RL economist with many years experience. Experience at what? Frankly, I don't believe you. [qoute]eVe bank to tax 2% per transaction of ISKs transferred between players when players give ISKs to another character through trade window or wallet option. Even economists known how to make an argument. The first thing you have to establish is that the economic is actually "imbalanced" and that there is a "surplus" of isk in the economy and that that surplus has a negative effect on the exchange of goods and on people's ability to acquire the goods they first need, and second want. You have done none of those things. Assuming for a moment that there is a problem, your solution is wrong headed and ignores that the problem is on the source-side. This is not a problem with price inflation caused by demand outstripping supply of durable consumer goods, and you need a tax to cool off demand. If there is an inflation in the Eve economy, and based on ship prices and Tech2 prices, I would say there isn't, then the cause of that inflation is the huge amount of NPC farming that's going on. Prices on ships and modules have never been cheaper. I don't know if faction fittings are outrageously high, but I suspect as people find ways of getting those out of complexes, we'll see a drop in those again (assuming their price did spike). Faction fittings, however, are not something that would indicate any sort of inflation, they are the epitome of a luxury item. ------------------------------------------ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"' Teh Onchinator' Personal Assistant to MrsPitman
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.09 14:55:00 - [39] There is no such thing as "surplus" of money in an economy. ------------------
Price Checka Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.07.09 15:20:00 - [40] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire By the way, it is eVe bank to tax 2% per transaction of ISKs transferred between players when players give ISKs to another character through trade window or wallet option. We have tax on market trading, why not close this loop hole and have tax on ISKs transfer? Cause that means if I want to transfer money to one of my alt characters, I lose 2% of my isk. Let me just suggest...go back to RL economics... terrible idea.
ArtieLange	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:28:00 - [41] Originally by: Dark Shikari I liked the old Jenny so much better. I wouldn't know her Adam, but what the hell, I liked the old one better. --------------------------------------------- Internal Error: Transaction (Process ID 10710) was deadlocked on lock resources with another process and has been chosen as the deadlock victim. Re
Jennai The Silent Rage R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:37:00 - [42] Originally by: Hannobaal There is no such thing as "surplus" of money in an economy. it's possible with poorly-designed game economies based around loot items instead of player production chains. if people can generate money faster than they can get sellable loot items, the prices of good gear keep going up. and then that leads to huge farmer cartels where they have loot-farmer groups to monopolize the spawns that drop good items, and gold-farmer groups to sell money to players so they can afford to buy the loot from the loot-farmers.
Magunus The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:38:00 - [43] Originally by: SiJira Edited by: SiJira on 09/07/2007 13:12:49 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire My idea on how to balance eVe economy and remove too much ISKs. Before I present my idea, I want to make my post credible by declaring that I am a RL economist with many years experience. yes everyone is an economist in real life when they play eve <snip> Patently untrue! Only 20% are economists, 30% are game designers, 40% are network engineers, and 20% are Chuck Norris! (Which, by the way, means that Chuck Norris is an economist, game designer, or a network engineer at least 50% of the time.) --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:54:00 - [44] Originally by: Magunus Patently untrue! Only 20% are economists, 30% are game designers, 40% are network engineers, and 20% are Chuck Norris! (Which, by the way, means that Chuck Norris is an economist, game designer, or a network engineer at least 50% of the time.) QFT. ------------ LAG - Hopefully teen-appropriate now. IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
Xiaodown Lyran Procurement	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:57:00 - [45] Dumb Idea. So, when I want to buy a new ship on my alt, I send my alt 200M isk. Except my alt only gets 196M? 4M just vanishes into the aether? So, now I have to make money on each character, rather than training one for PVP and one for industry and science? Either that or pay a huge tax? Yeah, I liked the old Jenny Spitfire a lot more than this crap. Thank god Wrangler already replied. Also, to whoever said mission running makes people flow over with isk: Since the implementation of the LP store, most of the things mission runners made isk on are gone. But, remember, they also nerfed loot drops, and it's rare to get 2M worth of crap loot out of a lvl 4 mission now, even counting melting everything for minerals. Half the ships don't even drop anything anymore. ~X -- Lyran procurement is offering tritanium compression services for 0.0 alliances. Low prices, 25:1 compression. Click for Details...
Erim Solfara Amarr House of Solfara	Posted - 2007.07.09 16:58:00 - [46] I'm now officially adopting 'Spenny Jitfire' as the new monikor for this character. Not to mention, this is a rubbish idea. A new tool in the fight for balance?
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.09 17:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Jennai Originally by: Hannobaal There is no such thing as "surplus" of money in an economy. it's possible with poorly-designed game economies based around loot items instead of player production chains. if people can generate money faster than they can get sellable loot items, the prices of good gear keep going up. and then that leads to huge farmer cartels where they have loot-farmer groups to monopolize the spawns that drop good items, and gold-farmer groups to sell money to players so they can afford to buy the loot from the loot-farmers. The above is inflation. It can happen even if there was no loot. If the money supply increases faster than the amount of goods in the economy you get inflation and prices over all rise. If the opposite is true you get deflation and prices over all drop. So, what matters is the rate of growth of the money supply (compared to the rate of growth of the supply of goods), not the amount of money in the system at a given point in time. Maybe I'm arguing semantics, but "surplus" sounds like there is too much money in the system. There can't be. Any amount of money will work. It's how fast the amount of money in the system is increasing (or decreasing in the opposite case) that matters. ------------------
Jennai The Silent Rage R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.09 17:16:00 - [48] Originally by: Hannobaal Maybe I'm arguing semantics, but "surplus" sounds like there is too much money in the system. There can't be. Any amount of money will work. It's how fast the amount of money in the system is increasing (or decreasing in the opposite case) that matters. Germany 1924, where people would feed their stoves with bricks of paper money because it burned longer than the equivalent value of firewood. but yeah it's more about inflation than actual amount of money, because it can't reach that point unless there's a really high inflation rate and no one is doing anything about it.
Entreri Finwe Raptus Regaliter Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.09 17:21:00 - [49] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Oh please no, I've had enough with real world taxes, and dealing with the tax agency. No more taxes!! Read my lips, NO MORE TAXES!!! Entreri for president! --- I had a cool siggy but it had the wrong corp in it, then my server died :(
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.09 18:07:00 - [50] Originally by: Magunus Originally by: SiJira yes everyone is an economist in real life when they play eve Patently untrue! Only 20% are economists, 30% are game designers, 40% are network engineers, and 20% are Chuck Norris! (Which, by the way, means that Chuck Norris is an economist, game designer, or a network engineer at least 50% of the time.) brilliant deduction ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Return The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.09 18:17:00 - [51] Originally by: Vitrael Edited by: Vitrael on 09/07/2007 17:34:44 READ MY LIPS! NOOO NEW TAXES! Hehe, wonder how many ppl know where that's from.
TenthReality Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.09 19:26:00 - [52] CCP already has this in place sort of. Station components for building outposts can only come from NPC providers, thus ISK used to build a station is removed from the economy. A few more (and perhaps common) items which require materials only available from NPC would cause even more ISK to be removed from the playing field. Perhaps having the new POS gear BPC's using either station components, or a new class of components for construction only available from NPC.
Mari Onette Amarr Gottland Production Transport Mines	Posted - 2007.07.09 19:44:00 - [53] If the only solution to removing isk from the eve economy you can come up with is to add a tax on isk transfers, I don't think you are a very good economist, or you have a very poor grasp of the eve economy. I would elaborate on why this is a bad idea, but I can't be bothered to spend the time to make a well formed response to an idea that is clearly half baked. There are plenty of ways to pull isk from people who have too much isk without taxing people who don't have enough. And even then, Too much isk is hard to define. It's not like titans are cheap to build. ------ I am in blood! Stepp'd in so far that, should I wade no more, it would be as tedious as going over. -MacBeth
Taran Summers The Merovingians	Posted - 2007.07.09 19:45:00 - [54] If I wanted an ISK sink in this game. I'd add ship fuel and/or life support consumables. And make it a station service to provide them. Then CCP can adjust fuel prices and consumable prices to lower the isk supply as necessary.
Aypse D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.09 19:47:00 - [55] No taxation without representation! Don't make me dress up like a minmatar and start jettisoning tea into the harbor outside Jita 4-4! Originally by: Oveur Eve is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.07.09 19:57:00 - [56] Just kill more players, that sinks isk just fine. -------- Robbie Rotten left me
Cudaya Ebsldes	Posted - 2007.07.09 19:58:00 - [57] I thought this should be in the markets forum, but aparently the mods don't think so..... so my suggestiion is !fantafe! TWT The Wealth Tax. Since everyones assets and isk is already in the database it would be simple to tax everyone on the usual fair and progressive sliding (upward) scale from say 0% -- 1 - 1mil isk 1% -- 1 mil - 10 mil isk.....etc, until @ 1 bill isk 99% income redistribution tax. And let us not forget the *CIT* the Corporate Income Tax, set @ lets say 55%. And if too much is removed from the game we could have tax holidays. Lets not also forget Barbados Tax Havens, in Jove space for example....... Keyboard error or no keyboard present. Press F1 to continue.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.07.09 20:06:00 - [58] Originally by: Magunus Originally by: SiJira Edited by: SiJira on 09/07/2007 13:12:49 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire My idea on how to balance eVe economy and remove too much ISKs. Before I present my idea, I want to make my post credible by declaring that I am a RL economist with many years experience. yes everyone is an economist in real life when they play eve <snip> Patently untrue! Only 20% are economists, 30% are game designers, 40% are network engineers, and 20% are Chuck Norris! (Which, by the way, means that Chuck Norris is an economist, game designer, or a network engineer at least 50% of the time.) What about Jack Bauer? Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2007.07.09 20:37:00 - [59] Originally by: Dark Shikari I liked the old Jenny so much better.
Nobues Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.09 20:43:00 - [60] OR we just just add a option to pay for the tranfer fees of char in isk, like 1 or 2 billion in isk or 20 bucks, a lot of the people who dont have that 20 in real live but does in gang might take that option. Add other things you can buy with isk, like maybe on the left there make payer ad's and charge tons of isk for. There are a lot of ways CCP can remove isk from the game, but its if they do it or not is the question. Webhosting, for you and your corp Webhosting for ISK

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