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Why cloakers need to be able to be spotted.

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p3stil3nce	Posted - 2007.07.15 03:08:00 - [61] Edited by: p3stil3nce on 15/07/2007 03:08:24 Originally by: Montaire Originally by: SiJira Originally by: p3stil3nce being ganged 100% of the time is NOT unreasonable. It's 0.0 space. Thats putting it better than I did :~) That essentially removes all incentive for a defensive perimiter. Bieng in "Deep" 0.0 isnt necesarily about better mins, or more complexes or better rats. Its about having "Defense In Depth" and the ability to have a defensive sphere. Is that a dynamic we are willing to abandon as useless ? And to clarify : you are okay with the effect this person is able to have while bieng afk ? Are you okay with AFK mining ? Gaining a benefit without bieng at the keyboard - its very similar. You derrive a benefit (expending opponents effort, making them lose efficency) without taking any risk or activly playing the game. They are not the same, but there are definate parallels. 0.0 isn't about Defense and getting safety for your conquest. It's about the abundance of resources and the work it takes to keep that space yours. What's the point of a perimeter when it's been infiltrated? and I'm ok with AFK mining as long as macros aren't involved. PS I can't even use cloaks, it's about the principle. What's the point about being in a 1 man corp?
firepup82 The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.07.15 03:10:00 - [62] Originally by: Montaire Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Tortun Nahme Edited by: Tortun Nahme on 15/07/2007 02:58:40 I hereby petition that all of us with cloaks go to their system and join this mans blockade he is a hero to solo'ers everywhere he has single handedly brought and entire system to a screaching hault and have an entire alliance quaking in their boots and screaming nerf i agree with a minmatar is this the end of the world? I'd hardly say we are quaking in our boots. Or screaming NERF! And the fact that I think its a cheap tactic doesnt mean Im not already fitting an alt to do exactly this in someone elses space. Belive me, Im only fair-minded on the boards. Its ironic, though. The strongest disagreement is coming from people who are either in NPC corps or 1 man alt corps. I'm not an alt or in a one man corp. And living with a cloaker in system is a way of life where I am. But its Eve and its 0.0 my friend. Life isnt fair there.
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.15 03:46:00 - [63] Originally by: Vyyrus We have had this guy in our system now for days. All he is doing is cloaking at a belt killing unsuspecting ratters then brags about it then cloaks whenever trouble comes for him. He has been in our system doing this crap for over a week now. Yes I do see the need for cloaks but this is not one of them. This is a pathetic way of style. This story has probably been mentioned time and time again but why CCP has done nothing about it? We have tried throwing bait at him but must of been getting him at his afk times thats another thing he can sit safetly in a hostile system afk cloaked not worrying about anything. Please CCP there is no countermeasure to this at all let there be someway to detect this kind of nonsense. We had a BoB guy in our area who was doing that in a Munin heavy assault ship with a cloak on it, We killed him a few times and he got the point and stopped bothering us. ------------------
Devinator	Posted - 2007.07.15 04:09:00 - [64] Originally by: Montaire Originally by: Le Skunk I dont think that one person should be able to idle in 100% safety in someone else's sovrign held space. The problem that you have is that you think it is your space? It is just a game, no one owns anything in a video game. I do not see anything this guy is doing wrong, it is all within game mechanics. If you do not like it, then EVE may not be the right game for you.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.15 04:13:00 - [65] Originally by: Montaire Originally by: SiJira Originally by: p3stil3nce being ganged 100% of the time is NOT unreasonable. It's 0.0 space. Thats putting it better than I did :~) That essentially removes all incentive for a defensive perimiter. Bieng in "Deep" 0.0 isnt necesarily about better mins, or more complexes or better rats. Its about having "Defense In Depth" and the ability to have a defensive sphere. Is that a dynamic we are willing to abandon as useless ? And to clarify : you are okay with the effect this person is able to have while bieng afk ? Are you okay with AFK mining ? Gaining a benefit without bieng at the keyboard - its very similar. You derrive a benefit (expending opponents effort, making them lose efficency) without taking any risk or activly playing the game. They are not the same, but there are definate parallels. holy crap you are bringing the exact same points another pro-cloakkilling person has been pointing out not online in my 20+page thread but also in all the respawns of anti cloak threads im not sure if you guys spend a lot of time together or if theres an alternate forum where your horrible ideas grow and fester read over this for any arguments you have had - will have - and are thinking of having and all the rebuttals to them ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.15 04:23:00 - [66] Originally by: SiJira holy crap you are bringing the exact same points another pro-cloakkilling person has been pointing out not online in my 20+page thread but also in all the respawns of anti cloak threads im not sure if you guys spend a lot of time together or if theres an alternate forum where your horrible ideas grow and fester read over this for any arguments you have had - will have - and are thinking of having and all the rebuttals to them Thats a fair request, I'll read over it. But Im not "Anti-Cloak" or "Pro-CloakKilling" The ONLY part I object to is afk cloaking, where you can force a response while exposing yourself to no risk. Just to make that clear. I'll go read your thread, then post some thoughts tomorow.
firepup82 The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.07.15 04:31:00 - [67] If you need advice on how to catch the guy convo me in game tomorrow.
Vyyrus Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.15 04:32:00 - [68] All I know is someone shouldn't be able to camp cloaked in a hostile system while he is either playing his other accounts or afk. I pay just as much to play the game as any other. There needs to be something implemented. Like if a territory has SOV 4 or something probes can be sent out to catch these cloakers in friendly space.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.15 04:38:00 - [69] Originally by: Montaire Originally by: SiJira holy crap you are bringing the exact same points another pro-cloakkilling person has been pointing out not online in my 20+page thread but also in all the respawns of anti cloak threads im not sure if you guys spend a lot of time together or if theres an alternate forum where your horrible ideas grow and fester read over this for any arguments you have had - will have - and are thinking of having and all the rebuttals to them Thats a fair request, I'll read over it. But Im not "Anti-Cloak" or "Pro-CloakKilling" The ONLY part I object to is afk cloaking, where you can force a response while exposing yourself to no risk. Just to make that clear. I'll go read your thread, then post some thoughts tomorow. you dont need to read all of it - actually if you skip every other post you will get all of it anyways hehe but there are some good ideas on every other page ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.15 04:49:00 - [70] heres an idea, nerf sijira's trolling! Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.15 04:51:00 - [71] Originally by: Tortun Nahme heres an idea, nerf sijira's trolling! your disgust me i kill trolls with my omen ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.15 04:53:00 - [72] wrong game, go back to WoW Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.15 05:03:00 - [73] Originally by: Tortun Nahme wrong game, go back to WoW you shall pay minmatar scum ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.15 05:31:00 - [74] bring it, neck boi Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
Xiaodown Lyran Procurement	Posted - 2007.07.15 06:46:00 - [75] Everybody go back and read my post. Sheesh. The OP is a whiny loser. However, the one thing that is actually right is that you shouldn't be able to affect the game while you're AFK. Period. You should have to be at the keyboard to terrorize someone. I'm all about terrorizing. Just not while you're out sexoring my mom. You need to be at the keyboard. ~X -- Lyran procurement is offering tritanium compression services for 0.0 alliances. Low prices, 25:1 compression. Click for Details...
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.15 07:03:00 - [76] take your keyboard with you when you go out sexoring his momma Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
Trak Cranker Serenity Inc	Posted - 2007.07.15 07:05:00 - [77] Originally by: SiJira full sovereignty does not mean 0.0 carebear loveland it means you need to keep it up to maintain it And I haven't seen anyone here advocating that the terrorizing he is doing shouldn't be doable. Quite the contrary. There is just a reasonable request for him to be at the keyboard while he is doing it. SiJira, do you honestly think it is reasonable that a player can log in, affect the productivity of an entire system, and then leave the keyboard for the next 23 hours at no risk whatsoever? Its hardly the trademark for the Eve we all know and love.
Farham AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.07.15 07:05:00 - [78] Two words. Battle Badger. Intrepid Crossing Diplomat and All Around Major Idiot
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.15 07:09:00 - [79] Originally by: Trak Cranker Originally by: SiJira full sovereignty does not mean 0.0 carebear loveland it means you need to keep it up to maintain it And I haven't seen anyone here advocating that the terrorizing he is doing shouldn't be doable. Quite the contrary. There is just a reasonable request for him to be at the keyboard while he is doing it. SiJira, do you honestly think it is reasonable that a player can log in, affect the productivity of an entire system, and then leave the keyboard for the next 23 hours at no risk whatsoever? Its hardly the trademark for the Eve we all know and love. actually I would say its exactly the trademark we all know and love there are ways to deal with it, and eve has always relied on player initiative, in fact I would say whine/nerf threads are hardly the trademark for the eve we all know and love, and they SHOULDNT be either Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
Kil'Roy Minmatar The Rat Patrol	Posted - 2007.07.15 07:18:00 - [80] How about a 30min auto logout timer like they seem to have on Sisi. One thing though, a Stealth Bomber staying cloaked and attacking at moments of opportunity is the purpose of the ship. They can be a pain, but are a part of warfare. If you know the Alliance he is from, how put some of your own cloakers in their backyard and fight fire with fire. Too many things are getting Nerf'd because of players whinning, since that seems to be easier than coming up with a counter. I hope this is where the Devs draw the line, and don't decide to Nerf cloakers. If they decide to allow them to be detected by probes, then it better be hard as $@#% to do it, not just providing an expensive training entensive probe to do it, but take a lot of hard work and team work to do it. If the cloaker is at the wheel, then there shouldn't be much chance to find him, but if he is AFK, then maybe after an hour or two of hard work, you find him, maybe.
Trak Cranker Serenity Inc	Posted - 2007.07.15 07:23:00 - [81] Originally by: Devinator I do not see anything this guy is doing wrong, it is all within game mechanics. If you do not like it, then EVE may not be the right game for you. I don't think anyone suggested that it was not within the game mechanics. But game mechanics can, and will be, changed from time to time. And this is one I think could do with a lookover in terms of fairness and risk/reward. That it is part of the game now, is in no way an argument for that it should stay that way. I have been the cloaker quite a bit more than the "cloakee" - and that experience has left me convinced of the imbalance to the situation. The sense of terrorizing a system is quite satisfying - but it should come at a risk. Not only when you uncloak.
Trak Cranker Serenity Inc	Posted - 2007.07.15 07:24:00 - [82] Originally by: Kil'Roy One thing though, a Stealth Bomber staying cloaked and attacking at moments of opportunity is the purpose of the ship. Again, noone is saying it shouldn't be.
Trak Cranker Serenity Inc	Posted - 2007.07.15 07:27:00 - [83] Originally by: Tortun Nahme [ there are ways to deal with it, and eve has always relied on player initiative And just how do you deal with a cloaker thats afk? That you can catch him, if or when he uncloaks, is relatively irrelevant to the issue.
Cregi Intergalactic Technologies	Posted - 2007.07.15 07:28:00 - [84] Edited by: Cregi on 15/07/2007 07:28:56 Originally by: Vyyrus We have had this guy in our system now for days. All he is doing is cloaking at a belt killing unsuspecting ratters then brags about it then cloaks whenever trouble comes for him. He has been in our system doing this crap for over a week now. Yes I do see the need for cloaks but this is not one of them. This is a pathetic way of style. This story has probably been mentioned time and time again but why CCP has done nothing about it? We have tried throwing bait at him but must of been getting him at his afk times thats another thing he can sit safetly in a hostile system afk cloaked not worrying about anything. Please CCP there is no countermeasure to this at all let there be someway to detect this kind of nonsense. These nerf posts remind me of wow whines, just reading the wow forums kept me out of that game and now it seems to be affecting eve You got to be a wow vet
Cregi Intergalactic Technologies	Posted - 2007.07.15 07:34:00 - [85] And i guess if they make a cloak detectible like so many whiners are posting for, what do you all think the new name for said mod should be? After all you cant detect a cloak can you? or is the word cloak diffrent then i think?
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.15 07:46:00 - [86] Originally by: Trak Cranker Originally by: Tortun Nahme [ there are ways to deal with it, and eve has always relied on player initiative And just how do you deal with a cloaker thats afk? That you can catch him, if or when he uncloaks, is relatively irrelevant to the issue. youve been tracking his time online, you know when he comes on after dt, probe out his safe spot before he cloaks, at the very least you will narrow it to the right grid, only takes a few frigs with sb's to cover it all quickly enough, at the very least you force to move to a new one, keep doing it and he will have to leave for fear of being nabbed for that matter, he cant be probing so he must be within 2 au's of his prefered target location, if you have been tracking him it cant be that hard to pin down patterns, humans are creatures of habit or heaven forbid you just dont give him an opportunity to jump and individual, its not like solo pirates are hard to avoid, especially if you know he is there use your own cloakers to bait a trap, recons and covops with drones and scrambles will eat him for breakfast while your gankfleet jumps in the tools to deal with him are at your disposal, whining for a nerf is just an addmission that he has won Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
T'Laar Bok	Posted - 2007.07.15 08:02:00 - [87] I don't believe CCP should have introduced the ability to cloak and it should be removed. Its effect is waay too powerful and imbalanced.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.15 08:06:00 - [88] deal with it! cause from the looks of it, its not going anywhere Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
Trak Cranker Serenity Inc	Posted - 2007.07.15 08:06:00 - [89] Originally by: Tortun Nahme youve been tracking his time online, you know when he comes on after dt, probe out his safe spot before he cloaks, at the very least you will narrow it to the right grid, only takes a few frigs with sb's to cover it all quickly enough, at the very least you force to move to a new one, keep doing it and he will have to leave for fear of being nabbed Correct me if I am wrong here - I admit to being a probing noob - but when he logs in and warps back to his safespot, and immideately activates the cloak, wont there be too little time to scan him out? Wouldn't it be a better option to strike as he logs out? (an action he can postpone to dt, if he deems it too risky before, though)
Sable Keetch	Posted - 2007.07.15 08:07:00 - [90] And now we're all the way to the same question that has to be asked. If you couldn't see him would it be the same thing? Would it bug you so much? Because being surprised doesn't seem to annoy you it's just the fact you can see him. I also have to agree with the other folks in asking,if there really are 600-800 of you how can you not catch him?Hell he's got to run out of ammo sooner or later,catch him when he goes for ammo. Yes I'm an alt so what?

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