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Trak Cranker
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.15 13:19:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Victor Vision
- While he is cloaked in a safe, he can not attack you
To sum up on this and a few of the other comments:
Noone is whining about the ships or the cloak as such.
It is the situation where the ships and cloaks are used _afk_, to pose a threat on a system with no effort, forcing a change of MO, thats the problem. In mine, and others apparently, humble opinion.
A change of MO to run gangs with pilots that could be ratting to hunt him and/or cover miners, that would otherwise not need protection costs isk, Victor. Lots of isk. Possibly way more than he could destroy by making an actual attack regularly. And he does it from an unassailable position.
I am all for cloakers being able to work in the ways described - but in the least there should be a chance of hunting them down if they are not paying just a minimum of attention.
Not saying they should be easy to hunt down - but someone going afk cloaked should not be able to go to work and come back 10-11 hours later and be certain that he is not back at the medical station.
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Donna Maria
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.15 13:21:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Mister Xerox
Originally by: Vyyrus We have had this guy in our system now for days. All he is doing is cloaking at a belt killing unsuspecting ratters then brags about it then cloaks whenever trouble comes for him. He has been in our system doing this crap for over a week now. Yes I do see the need for cloaks but this is not one of them. This is a pathetic way of style. This story has probably been mentioned time and time again but why CCP has done nothing about it? We have tried throwing bait at him but must of been getting him at his afk times thats another thing he can sit safetly in a hostile system afk cloaked not worrying about anything. Please CCP there is no countermeasure to this at all let there be someway to detect this kind of nonsense.
Try pinning down the pirates who sit cloaked in lowsec sniping anything smaller than a cruiser that just happens to be foolishly AFK on autopilot. Uraniumcore1 springs to mind, sitting in his little lowsec pocket with alts on all sides making sure that no organized group can sweep in and pop his cloaking BS.
I agree wholly that measures need to be taken to make cloaks findable. Not easy, nor swift, but something that with patience can be accomplished.
They nerfed the absolute bejesus out of warp stabs, making it almost impossible to operate a ship that has just one (much less several) fitted... they should do the same for non-covert cloaks. And they should allow bombers to use cov ops cloaks.
Stabs needed to be nerfed. They now cause the same penalty to Lock range that cloaks provide to locking time. Also, everyone, even 'AFK cloakers' have to re-log for downtime. So technically, they are not permantly AFK. And FFS if they have more than 40 in local at one time its not that hard to trap this guy. Someone cloaked in each belt, and sitting on each planet would make it hard for a cloaker to travel . If you cant figure it out, no one should help your figure it out. FWIW, If I knew where you lived I would come cloak in your system also since you seem so easy to kill and so clueless and lack any creativity. People like you are fun to kill..
Stop crying to CCP because someone else uses their brain better than your 600 person alliance.
And yes this is my alt. Im the girl momma warned you about..
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 13:35:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Xiaodown Everybody go back and read my post.
Sheesh.
The OP is a whiny loser. However, the one thing that is actually right is that you shouldn't be able to affect the game while you're AFK. Period. You should have to be at the keyboard to terrorize someone.
I'm all about terrorizing. Just not while you're out sexoring my mom. You need to be at the keyboard.
~X
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Originally by: SiJira
full sovereignty does not mean 0.0 carebear loveland it means you need to keep it up to maintain it
And I haven't seen anyone here advocating that the terrorizing he is doing shouldn't be doable. Quite the contrary.
There is just a reasonable request for him to be at the keyboard while he is doing it.
SiJira, do you honestly think it is reasonable that a player can log in, affect the productivity of an entire system, and then leave the keyboard for the next 23 hours at no risk whatsoever?
Its hardly the trademark for the Eve we all know and love.
oh my - seriously - and i mean this literally - kids - please just go back to empire
while he is afk he does nothing
while he is there and since its 0.0 you are in gangs he can get killed every time he uncloaks
please just read this thread and if you have any new whines to add be my guest - and you wont because in 24 pages its all been said and if you cant understand why you cant and shouldnt see a cloaker then i have nothing more to say to you please just stop whining and deal with the game it is not broken and i know this is a run on sentence and this whole thread and anti cloaking crap is a run on sentence and it makes me want to puke and i love eve and dont want to puke because of a half assed change that so many 0.0 carebears cry for instead of playing the game look at all the players that have no problem with it and these guys dont even use cloak they simply kill it ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 13:40:00 -
[124]
Originally by: T'Laar Bok I don't believe CCP should have introduced the ability to cloak and it should be removed. Its effect is waay too powerful and imbalanced.
i dont believe CCP should have introduced the ability to form alliances and it should be removed - its effect is way too powerful and imbalanced ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 13:43:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Lt Angus When he uncloaks you can spot him, when hes cloaked hes harmless. Id recommend high sec but there is scary afk people there too
> well said ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Trak Cranker
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.15 13:48:00 -
[126]
Originally by: SiJira while he is afk he does nothing
Ok, for the third time I think; That is not true. He hurts the isk making capability of the system. Badly.
And who is the bigger carebear, really? The one that want the opportunity to hunt afk cloakers down, or the one that want to be able to sit afk and risk free under cloak x hours a day and hurt the opponents finances?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 13:49:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
What did the allies do in WWII when the germans deployed submarines? They travled in convoys.
What did the germans do when they found 1 lone ship? Sink it with their torpedoes.
See, history can actually teach you a thing or 2
It does fit to an extent.
I don't think the right response is so much the issue. But that they are (potentially) forced to make it by little to no effort.
It is still a game, where there should be some corrolation between effort and effect.
Even if you were not able to stay cloaked while afk for a long time, you could still have a serious impact in this way. But then the opponent at least would know that you were putting _some_ effort into it.
It was not like the u-boat captains could just sink a merchant ship once a month and then leave the subs prowling the waters undetectable while they went home to the family for a large percentage of the time.
A cloaked killer in a system is a serious isk drain on the target. That should come with some risk for the unattentive pilot.
There are all kinds of suggestions and demands on the guys posting the issue to make an effort - yet the near effortless work of the afk cloaker seems quite acceptable?
i swear all you anti cloakers have a secret forum you share carebear ideas on - either that or some brainbug is controlling all of you in an effort to destroy eve as we know it ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 13:51:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Mallick
As for the Cloaks, CCP are making them scanable no?
no they decided against that once they realized only whiney carebears like yourself are asking for it and that the amount of players threatening to quit if this happens was more than if it stayed but non specialized ships will be made easier to get and im fine with that
by the way i dont like your attitude and you should respect the grown people you are responding to ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 13:56:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
It is the situation where the ships and cloaks are used _afk_,
afk does not hurt you are you having a hard time with this? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 13:58:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Originally by: SiJira while he is afk he does nothing
Ok, for the third time I think; That is not true. He hurts the isk making capability of the system. Badly.
And who is the bigger carebear, really? The one that want the opportunity to hunt afk cloakers down, or the one that want to be able to sit afk and risk free under cloak x hours a day and hurt the opponents finances?
do you even want a discussion or do you just want to whine as loud as you can? ill keep posting in your threads i dont care if you dont have the ability to respond to my posts ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
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Trak Cranker
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:01:00 -
[131]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Trak Cranker
A cloaked killer in a system is a serious isk drain on the target.
i swear all you anti cloakers have a secret forum you share carebear ideas on - either that or some brainbug is controlling all of you in an effort to destroy eve as we know it
Ok, I left the part you bolded in, as I must assume that the comment was targeted at that.
And I want to ask if you disagree with that? Because its not an idea - its pure logic.
And when will you understand that we are not cloak haters - I am not at least. It just shouldnt be a weapon you can set on autofire while go out and get drunk or whatever else.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:07:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Trak Cranker
A cloaked killer in a system is a serious isk drain on the target.
i swear all you anti cloakers have a secret forum you share carebear ideas on - either that or some brainbug is controlling all of you in an effort to destroy eve as we know it
Ok, I left the part you bolded in, as I must assume that the comment was targeted at that.
And I want to ask if you disagree with that? Because its not an idea - its pure logic.
And when will you understand that we are not cloak haters - I am not at least. It just shouldnt be a weapon you can set on autofire while go out and get drunk or whatever else.
guess what when they are afk they are not there to shoot you revelation - as in you might as well not have him in the system until he returns whats the drain exactly?
if ratting - rat in 2's if mining - have someone rat while you mine if running missions / plexes - do it in 2's
did i miss anything else? i still cant see this magical isk drain ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Trak Cranker
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:09:00 -
[133]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Originally by: SiJira while he is afk he does nothing
Ok, for the third time I think; That is not true. He hurts the isk making capability of the system. Badly.
And who is the bigger carebear, really? The one that want the opportunity to hunt afk cloakers down, or the one that want to be able to sit afk and risk free under cloak x hours a day and hurt the opponents finances?
do you even want a discussion or do you just want to whine as loud as you can? ill keep posting in your threads i dont care if you dont have the ability to respond to my posts
I see me responding to your claims. I see you doing nothing of the sort.
Answer me this(two quite simple questions): 1) Do you acknowledge that a cloaked ship in system hampers the isk generation in the system, compared to it not being there?
2) If yes to 1), do you think it is reasonable that such can be done from an unattackable position while you leave your computer for several hours?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:11:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Originally by: SiJira while he is afk he does nothing
Ok, for the third time I think; That is not true. He hurts the isk making capability of the system. Badly.
And who is the bigger carebear, really? The one that want the opportunity to hunt afk cloakers down, or the one that want to be able to sit afk and risk free under cloak x hours a day and hurt the opponents finances?
do you even want a discussion or do you just want to whine as loud as you can? ill keep posting in your threads i dont care if you dont have the ability to respond to my posts
I see me responding to your claims. I see you doing nothing of the sort.
Answer me this(two quite simple questions): 1) Do you acknowledge that a cloaked ship in system hampers the isk generation in the system, compared to it not being there?
2) If yes to 1), do you think it is reasonable that such can be done from an unattackable position while you leave your computer for several hours?
read this post
then read post 137 and if you answer them both i can attempt to answer this post - because as 137 states you can see why i cant really answer this post
____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Trak Cranker
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:13:00 -
[135]
Originally by: SiJira
guess what when they are afk they are not there to shoot you revelation - as in you might as well not have him in the system until he returns whats the drain exactly?
Newsflash: You dont know if he is afk. So you have to act as if he is not. And that prevents a lot of people from working as efficient as they could if they had a clean system.
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Montaire
Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:16:00 -
[136]
Okay, I read the entirety of this thread.
And the entirety (ungh) of that other thread you posted. I also read most of the links in that one.
You have already admited that AFK does hurt.
You said :
if ratting - rat in 2's if mining - have someone rat while you mine if running missions / plexes - do it in 2's
All of those things "cost" isk. Ratting in 2's means half the isk generated.
Ditto for all your other suggestions.
Respect to Tri, by the way, you guys fight like crazy dogs on steroids and meth.
I just tried to come to a corp mates defense here. I'm not complaining, just trying to clarify in a non-OMGNERF! manner that there is a problem with cloaking. Pointing out in logical, reasoned arguments how I feel about it, and how I feel it affects the game as a whole.
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Kaar
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:18:00 -
[137]
I love these threads. Particularly the following parts:
NPC'ers think it's their God given right to be able to rat 100% of the time simply because they hold the station in system The vast majority of the whiners havn't even tried to bait or trap these "cloakers" It's not unbalanced if you can do the exact same thing to their ratters in their systems - but just cba to because you dont have the patience
Of course im typing this as I sit cloaked in a system with 18 angry npc'ers. Just as I did with the last 3 entities we've been fighting.
Also, I love you duckie, you're my afk cloaking idle
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---
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Montaire
Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:26:00 -
[138]
Yeah, like I said earlier; just because I think its an poorly balanced tactic doesnt mean I havent already got an alt fitted for it. I moved him over to a central hub system for my enemy just now and took a hulk into structure before it got off.
Now Im going to bed, and they are going to have to honor the threat my afk Recon represents.
Its unbalanced. The risk vs. reward is not proportionate (maybe effort vs. payout is a better matrix to use). Just like old-style Warp Core Stabalizers, and the old Market-Downtime-Reset, and the old ECM it will eventually get changed.
Reasoned and thought out arguments can speed that up. Crazy spammage doesnt slow it down.
Originally by: Kaar I love these threads. Particularly the following parts:
NPC'ers think it's their God given right to be able to rat 100% of the time simply because they hold the station in system The vast majority of the whiners havn't even tried to bait or trap these "cloakers" It's not unbalanced if you can do the exact same thing to their ratters in their systems - but just cba to because you dont have the patience
Of course im typing this as I sit cloaked in a system with 18 angry npc'ers. Just as I did with the last 3 entities we've been fighting.
Also, I love you duckie, you're my afk cloaking idle
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Steel Tigeress
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:28:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme there is already a way to fidn cloakers
they are called smartbombs
quit whining and use the tools at hand
Try your own sudgestions befor you post please. Smartbombs do NOT remove cloak.
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Montaire
Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:32:00 -
[140]
Not only that but frankly its a big ass univere. And trying to find a cloaked, safe-spotted ship using smartbomts would be .... well flat frackin impossible.
Millions of years, in time. Easily.
Originally by: Steel Tigeress
Originally by: Tortun Nahme there is already a way to fidn cloakers
they are called smartbombs
quit whining and use the tools at hand
Try your own sudgestions befor you post please. Smartbombs do NOT remove cloak.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:41:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Tortun Nahme on 15/07/2007 14:41:28
Originally by: Steel Tigeress
Originally by: Tortun Nahme there is already a way to fidn cloakers
they are called smartbombs
quit whining and use the tools at hand
Try your own sudgestions befor you post please. Smartbombs do NOT remove cloak.
no dren, really? you mean that big WRECK doesn't give away their positition?
I use it to find solo cloaked pirates in eifer all the time, and I'm just one man, not an alliance Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:42:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Newsflash: You dont know if he is afk.
not getting attacked in a juice miner in over an hour might be a good indication - as in the trap you setup is not being baited
Quote:
So you have to act as if he is not. And that prevents a lot of people from working as efficient as they could if they had a clean system.
1) There might be situations where a miner cant get cover from a PvP ship. In that case he cant mine.
any alliance or large corp can find a partner for any of their members within a few minutes Quote:
2) There might be players that can't find partners that can only rat in a ship they know to be inferior to the cloakers, if they are commited to an NPC fight when engaged. They cannot rat.
heres my answer that ends this question and kills it and defiles it - if you are able to have POS in the system then you are able to have enough people so that no one has to play alone if they dont have to - if you dont have a POS there then you can move since you happen to be a single lonely player Quote:
3) The ratters might find that spawns in the system where the cloaker is, is inferior to other nearby systems. If they have to stay and cover miners, they lose out on isk.
travel as a group - the miners must always be covered - if a lone cloaker can jump in system im sure non cloaked ships can jump in and kill those miners even faster
Quote:
And that is all well and good in my book. If the cloaker is actually behind the wheel at the time.
let me quote you Quote: Newsflash: You dont know if he is afk.
maybe he likes to sit all day sitting there and fantasizing about all the social life he would have if he didnt play eve and then gets you when you are foolish enough to do something that causes you to be vulnerable in a 0.0 dangerous system ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:44:00 -
[143]
dag nabbit sijira you are not allowed to agree with me, go flood a different whine thread this one is mine Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:45:00 -
[144]
Edited by: SiJira on 15/07/2007 14:44:57
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Answer me this(two quite simple questions): 1) Do you acknowledge that a cloaked ship in system hampers the isk generation in the system, compared to it not being there?
no because anyone not able to fly in pvp fitted ships or in group of at least two doesnt deserve to own the system this is 0.0 and its dangerous
Quote:
2) If yes to 1), do you think it is reasonable that such can be done from an unattackable position while you leave your computer for several hours?
you can find out if he is afk by setting up traps and if he doesnt go for them you know hes afk - if he does you can now kill him completely - either way doesnt matter cause you should have someone backing you up at all times its 0.0 dangerous space!
Originally by: Tortun Nahme dag nabbit sijira you are not allowed to agree with me, go flood a different whine thread this one is mine
your parents make fine slaves ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:47:00 -
[145]
your parents made fine stew Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon |
Steel Tigeress
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:54:00 -
[146]
Ive said it befor as well, and I'll say it again too:
I dont really think cloaks need changed... its being AFK that needs changed.
Like a 10 min AFK timer. No keyboard input in 10 mins=loggoff
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Gutsani
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:56:00 -
[147]
my sig says it all, whining only gets you killed.
there are effective ways to fight "afk" cloakers, needing to be able to "probe em" is not one of them.
also, you cant kill em by whining on the forums about it. you need to have a plan...
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Trak Cranker
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:56:00 -
[148]
Originally by: SiJira
Quote:
And that is all well and good in my book. If the cloaker is actually behind the wheel at the time.
let me quote you Quote: Newsflash: You dont know if he is afk.
maybe he likes to sit all day sitting there and fantasizing about all the social life he would have if he didnt play eve and then gets you when you are foolish enough to do something that causes you to be vulnerable in a 0.0 dangerous system
You havent quite gotten the point have you? I want the afk cloaker to be frightened of going AFK for long stretches. Whether I know he is or not is irrelevant. I don't want the ordinary active cloaker to have to do more than an itsy bitsy tiny bit more than usual to avoid being found.
As in, if I _think_ he is AFK, I can give some difficult/longtimered probing a chance. Don't find him? Then he is most likely not afk. And all is good and fair.
In my book it would be a a VERY reasonable solution to introduce an incredibly small risk for the active cloaked pilot - but a risk that would be too big to go afk with for long. And we are not talking a potty break.
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Trak Cranker
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.15 14:58:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Steel Tigeress I dont really think cloaks need changed... its being AFK that needs changed.
Precisely.
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T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2007.07.15 15:14:00 -
[150]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: T'Laar Bok I don't believe CCP should have introduced the ability to cloak and it should be removed. Its effect is waay too powerful and imbalanced.
i dont believe CCP should have introduced the ability to form alliances and it should be removed - its effect is way too powerful and imbalanced
A single player disrupting an entire system is way too powerful and imbalanced especially when that player doesnt even need to be playing. |
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