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Tasuric Orka
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.15 15:17:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 15/07/2007 15:20:44 The balance is missing, thats why i hope ccp pushes these cloak probes trough.
The targets have to do all the work, flying in gangs, trying to bait, camping gates, whatever.
While the attacker only has to warp and cloak = invulnerable/unfindable.
Either make afk cloaking impossible, or force cloakers to keep on the move.. both idea's basically work pretty much the same way.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 15:25:00 -
[152]
kids just read this thread and stop posting your ideas because they have no merit ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Kaar
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.07.15 15:30:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Kaar on 15/07/2007 15:30:37
Originally by: T'Laar Bok
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: T'Laar Bok I don't believe CCP should have introduced the ability to cloak and it should be removed. Its effect is waay too powerful and imbalanced.
i dont believe CCP should have introduced the ability to form alliances and it should be removed - its effect is way too powerful and imbalanced
A single player disrupting an entire system is way too powerful and imbalanced especially when that player doesnt even need to be playing.
WRONG WRONG WRONG
The players who sit in the system have a CHOICE to rat or not. The system is only disrupted if they choose the option not to.
Wether you get killed or not is totally different and depends many factors, intelligence of the person ratting being the paramount.
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Lord Zoran
Caldari House of Tempers
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Posted - 2007.07.15 15:33:00 -
[154]
i agree with anyone that says that only specialised ships for cloaking should have this ability, having ratting ravens cloak on me all the time in 0.0 can be a real pain in the arse --------------------------------------------- no sig for you !!! |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.15 15:34:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Oh-just noticed this was another anti-covert/recon thread
Its not really. Its an anti _afk_ covert/recon thread. :)
This dog has chased it's tail for so long it's ridiculous .
Feel free to nerf cloaks the same day 0.0 alliances are prevented from camping 0.0-Empire gates in 50 man blobs under the guise of "protecting mah 0.0 real pee-vee-pee alliance territory" while blasting every Velator and shuttle that rolls through.
Cookies or cake--can't have both
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.07.15 15:57:00 -
[156]
There are different things that needs to be changed before they implement any ways of scanning cloaked stuff down.
1: Fixing the probes. As it is now it doesnt matter how much you move around while they scan for you. If someone started a scan and you just got to your new SS when it was 10 sec left of the scanningtime, most probarbly they got a result. This needs to be fixed. In other words, the ship you are scanning for needs to be on the same location under the entire scan time.
2: If they implement probes against any form of cloaking, they will need to be designed so they are detectable. No 20AU probe who can get a position 2000m away from your ass. You will need to be able to detect them and have the chance to move. Probes with less then 15AU range. And this one will maybe drop you closer to the cloaker, but you would still need a second probe, less range higher strength to to be able to get on the same grid.
3: The people using the scanprobes will need to get a nerf in scanning. Special launcher/huge probes/make scanning with any other form of probes in the same system impossible cause of the huge engergy "pulse" needed to get a location.
Right now alliances have never had it easier:
Capships/ carriers with fighters can be a pain in the ass. Cyno jammers System scanning arrays 20 sec probingtime on default probes Jumpportals Largebubbles
You have everything you need to fight and keep your systems fairly safe.
Add the penalties for the cloak: (yeah yeah, I know this is the improved T2 one) -40% sig resolution (doubles the lockingtime) Unable to warp while cloaked -70% speed while cloaked 10 sec lockingdelay with maxed skill
The above would get rid of AFK cloakers, and make u able to hunt down cloakers who dont have an eye open on his surroundings.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 16:14:00 -
[157]
Originally by: TZeer There are different things that needs to be changed before they implement any ways of scanning cloaked stuff down.
1: Fixing the probes. As it is now it doesnt matter how much you move around while they scan for you. If someone started a scan and you just got to your new SS when it was 10 sec left of the scanningtime, most probarbly they got a result. This needs to be fixed. In other words, the ship you are scanning for needs to be on the same location under the entire scan time.
2: If they implement probes against any form of cloaking, they will need to be designed so they are detectable. No 20AU probe who can get a position 2000m away from your ass. You will need to be able to detect them and have the chance to move. Probes with less then 15AU range. And this one will maybe drop you closer to the cloaker, but you would still need a second probe, less range higher strength to to be able to get on the same grid.
3: The people using the scanprobes will need to get a nerf in scanning. Special launcher/huge probes/make scanning with any other form of probes in the same system impossible cause of the huge engergy "pulse" needed to get a location.
Right now alliances have never had it easier:
Capships/ carriers with fighters can be a pain in the ass. Cyno jammers System scanning arrays 20 sec probingtime on default probes Jumpportals Largebubbles
You have everything you need to fight and keep your systems fairly safe.
Add the penalties for the cloak: (yeah yeah, I know this is the improved T2 one) -40% sig resolution (doubles the lockingtime) Unable to warp while cloaked -70% speed while cloaked 10 sec lockingdelay with maxed skill
The above would get rid of AFK cloakers, and make u able to hunt down cloakers who dont have an eye open on his surroundings.
you make good points ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Silpher
The Blackstone Group Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.15 16:31:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Oki Riverson Edited by: Oki Riverson on 15/07/2007 11:49:15 Edited by: Oki Riverson on 15/07/2007 11:48:04 It seams alot of people are posting whines about, not cloaks, but Recon ships, they obivously DON'T understand the Recon, and I AM talking about the Recon here NOT the Force recon, Got that?
The standard Recon(Not the force recon, which btw the way CAN'T warp when cloaked) has considerably LESS teeth than its force counter part.
as most RECONS (NOT FORCE RECONS AS THEY CAN'T CLOAK WHILE WARPING...GOT THAT YET? GOOD)
Anyone have any idea what this guy is talking about? Apparently, mr. know-it-all here is a bit confused when it comes to recons.
There's no such thing as a "standard" recon. There's Combat Recon and Force Recon. Combat Recon has no sort of cloaking ability, but get's crazy bonuses to ewar and what have you. Force Recon, on the other hand, doesn't have quite the bonuses, but can warped while cloaked.
Wtf was that guy talking about?
Anyways, I don't feel like reading through the 2 pages of walls-of-text while I was asleep, so I'll reiterate the point I made earlier... STFU AND KILL THE GUY!
My alliance had Burn Eden give us hell for weeks with there cloaking games... yes, they sat AFK cloaked as well, but it was a bit more than a recon. This was 3-4 sniping BS, 2 dictors, 2 recons. They'd swoop in, dictor the target, use the recons to pin it down, and bring in the sniping battleships. All of there ships (besides) BS went rediculously fast, and the BS were so far away, they'd warp out before you got there.
You know what we did?! We didn't come crying to the forums, we caught one of them damn cloaked BS, which happened to be almost 100% faction fit, and dropped his cloaking ass. What happened next? THEY LEFT!!
****, moan and whine. --- If after I post my opinion, you feel the need to say, "Oh, guess what BRUCE thinks," go put on a tinfoil hat and praise jesus. It's MY opinion, not BRUCEs. |
Capt Rob
Minmatar Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.15 16:39:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Vyyrus We have had this guy in our system now for days. All he is doing is cloaking at a belt killing unsuspecting ratters then brags about it then cloaks whenever trouble comes for him. He has been in our system doing this crap for over a week now. Yes I do see the need for cloaks but this is not one of them. This is a pathetic way of style. This story has probably been mentioned time and time again but why CCP has done nothing about it? We have tried throwing bait at him but must of been getting him at his afk times thats another thing he can sit safetly in a hostile system afk cloaked not worrying about anything. Please CCP there is no countermeasure to this at all let there be someway to detect this kind of nonsense.
i dont think you realise the amount of isk farming ravens that do the opposite to your problem; but hey i dont think they should change it
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Silpher
The Blackstone Group Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.15 16:42:00 -
[160]
Originally by: TZeer
2: If they implement probes against any form of cloaking, they will need to be designed so they are detectable. No 20AU probe who can get a position 2000m away from your ass. You will need to be able to detect them and have the chance to move. Probes with less then 15AU range. And this one will maybe drop you closer to the cloaker, but you would still need a second probe, less range higher strength to to be able to get on the same grid.
All probes are scannable. There just isn't an option on your overview settings. You have to uncheck that box and WHAM, there it is.
I'm all for being able to find a non-native cloaker, but scanning cov-ops, force recons and stealth bombers, imho, is a rediculous request.
--- If after I post my opinion, you feel the need to say, "Oh, guess what BRUCE thinks," go put on a tinfoil hat and praise jesus. It's MY opinion, not BRUCEs. |
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Zalathar
Minmatar Biometaloid INC
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Posted - 2007.07.15 16:50:00 -
[161]
dont nerf cloaks, but make a POS module only available when you have sovereignty that allows you to san for cloacked ships in the system. ~~~~~~ *mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"* ~~~~~~ eeeeeekk - Deckard eeeeee...K -Darth Patches gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge you soo pretty I think you're stunningly handsome and let me just say that you're wearing that dead parrot on your shoulder in a particularly dashing way today. -Hango Your using up all the space hango! - Timmeh |
Silpher
The Blackstone Group Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.15 17:04:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Silpher on 15/07/2007 17:04:43 Here's an idea. If cloaker is in system A, move to system B. Deny him targets in system A. He'll get bored and either leave, or move over to system B, at which point you move back to system A. You have now encouraged him to move out of the one system and use gates, which makes it alot easier (although still difficult) to catch the cloaker.
There are many ways to combat these guys, but screaming for the nerf bat isn't one of them, and yes, it requires a bit of brains. --- If after I post my opinion, you feel the need to say, "Oh, guess what BRUCE thinks," go put on a tinfoil hat and praise jesus. It's MY opinion, not BRUCEs. |
T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2007.07.15 17:22:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Kaar WRONG WRONG WRONG
Please take a deep breath and calm down. Its just a discussion with people sharing their POVs. Nothing to pop a valve over.
Originally by: Kaar
The players who sit in the system have a CHOICE to rat or not. The system is only disrupted if they choose the option not to.
If there is a hostile cloaked ship it effects everyone in system, not just people ratting.
Its an even greater nightmare if there are multiple hostile cloaked ships.
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Sable Keetch
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Posted - 2007.07.15 20:02:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Sable Keetch on 15/07/2007 20:02:31 Again I ask the question. If you didn't know he was there would it matter as much to you?
I mean your whole problem seems to be that you know he's there and might not be at his computer.
Why not just close local and let him surprise you guys you don't seem to care if he's going to attack.Just if you can/can't see him.
Sorry about that last paragraph.I'm just getting a bit tired of hearing all the complaining.
Yes I'm an alt so what? |
Nobues
Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.15 20:11:00 -
[165]
I think you all are missing the point, keep the cloaks use your head. IF you have a cloaker in a station system, CLEAR out the station system until he leave, if everyone doesnt clear the system kick em out of the alliance/corp and pod them out.
You want a cloaker gone, giving them a reason not to stay, with only em in the system he will have nothing to do. Webhosting, for you and your corp Webhosting for ISK
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Irob Urore
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Posted - 2007.07.15 20:22:00 -
[166]
Best thing to do is get everyone in your system in a battleship, go a few clicks off your station and go afk cloaked for 17weeks straight .. if nobody can find nobody else in this game then maybe we can get the original AFK cloakers to see the plight of this situation.
CCP Pull your fingers out, its fun for the cloakers dead boring for the rest of us who also subscribe to this s#*($&.
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Irob Urore
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Posted - 2007.07.15 20:24:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Nobues I think you all are missing the point, keep the cloaks use your head. IF you have a cloaker in a station system, CLEAR out the station system until he leave, if everyone doesnt clear the system kick em out of the alliance/corp and pod them out.
You want a cloaker gone, giving them a reason not to stay, with only em in the system he will have nothing to do.
wow .. just wow.
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Irob Urore
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Posted - 2007.07.15 20:30:00 -
[168]
Originally by: eXtas
Originally by: Vyyrus Oh shut up trolls you all know there is no way to spot a cloaker. This must be your style of play as well. Wait for someone defenseless, gank him, cloak back up whenever trouble comes, repeat process for days. Must be fun.
why not just use a setup to take out his ship?
Your burn eden with your one trick pony tactic, you guys would go from 0238321327 kills a day to a handful overnight, it really is in your best interest to make sure cloaked battleships never get nerfed ... ever ever.
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Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.15 21:00:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Nicholas Barker QUICK, A GAME MECHANIC THAT DOESN'T AGREE WITH US! TO THE FORUMS!
THIS IS SPARTA!
I find the irony of this particular alliance complaining about the inability of their 800 members to cope with a single hostile to be magically delicious. _____ Heat Warfare |
Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.15 21:06:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Irob Urore
Originally by: eXtas
Originally by: Vyyrus Oh shut up trolls you all know there is no way to spot a cloaker. This must be your style of play as well. Wait for someone defenseless, gank him, cloak back up whenever trouble comes, repeat process for days. Must be fun.
why not just use a setup to take out his ship?
Your burn eden with your one trick pony tactic, you guys would go from 0238321327 kills a day to a handful overnight, it really is in your best interest to make sure cloaked battleships never get nerfed ... ever ever.
Not to poke my nose where it doesn't belong, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Burn Eden were quite effective before they started using Cloaking BS's, no? IIRC they used stabbed ravens and everyone complained about that, but they were effective before then as well, no? _____ Heat Warfare |
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p3stil3nce
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Posted - 2007.07.15 23:03:00 -
[171]
Cloak probes, i feel, is not the answer. Rather, why not a role bonus for CPU on SB, cov ops and recons? Make fitting a cloak, which already takes up a high slot, gimp a set up more so.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.15 23:35:00 -
[172]
so did any of you read this thread or will you continue with your drivel? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Streetrip
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.15 23:58:00 -
[173]
This cloaker sounds like a very good player! He's hitting you psychologically in that he's making you think twice about going out ratting. He's causing isk damage to you and on top of that also hitting a means of income to replace the damage He's also doing it with 1 ship. He picks his time to attack He picks which targets he wants to go after
It's a very good play! But besides giving him kudos by the very formation of this thread, you could try other ways of getting him? deny him any of his perfect scenarios and i reckon you could take him out easy. The value of the cloak isn't the whole invulnerability thing even. If he just sat in your station unkillable that really wouldn't bother you too much (but btw, it is annoying as hell and it would be cool to evict people) But the fact your giving him oppourtunities to harass you is the bit that should be focused upon as that's the real damage he's doing. When he's cloaked, you pretty much cant touch him. when he's uncloaked, you can REALLY nail him hard!
Here is your counter: Setup a battle badger. Tanked to hell and everything. Have your very own cloaker recon covering it so that when he drops his cloak, decloak yourself, lock, damp, kill. Hey even have an inty or two alligned for your location to warp in for extra hitting and scrambling power.
The cloak isn't the problem. The player and his tactics are. hint: They're working against you. The cloak is merely his tool
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Drykor
Minmatar Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.16 00:32:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Silpher
Originally by: TZeer
2: If they implement probes against any form of cloaking, they will need to be designed so they are detectable. No 20AU probe who can get a position 2000m away from your ass. You will need to be able to detect them and have the chance to move. Probes with less then 15AU range. And this one will maybe drop you closer to the cloaker, but you would still need a second probe, less range higher strength to to be able to get on the same grid.
All probes are scannable. There just isn't an option on your overview settings. You have to uncheck that box and WHAM, there it is.
I'm all for being able to find a non-native cloaker, but scanning cov-ops, force recons and stealth bombers, imho, is a rediculous request.
Probes may be scanable but your system scanner won't go above approx. 15AU.
I agree with the Burn Eden guy, if there are gonna be ways to find cloakers, then probing needs to be changed. I do think that AFK people should have some risk attached to cloaking though. Say a probe scan that takes 2 hours, returns no results if the guy warped in the meanwhile (so he doesn't have to make new safespots all the time either), but does give a pretty good result otherwise. This is no danger to any active pilot and 2 hours is still a long time.
Other than that, you should be able to deal with him even now, the mentioned solutions are good, sensor boosters, rat/mine in gangs. It can't be that hard in a capital system.
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Silpher
The Blackstone Group Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.16 00:41:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Drykor
Originally by: Silpher
Originally by: TZeer
2: If they implement probes against any form of cloaking, they will need to be designed so they are detectable. No 20AU probe who can get a position 2000m away from your ass. You will need to be able to detect them and have the chance to move. Probes with less then 15AU range. And this one will maybe drop you closer to the cloaker, but you would still need a second probe, less range higher strength to to be able to get on the same grid.
All probes are scannable. There just isn't an option on your overview settings. You have to uncheck that box and WHAM, there it is.
I'm all for being able to find a non-native cloaker, but scanning cov-ops, force recons and stealth bombers, imho, is a rediculous request.
Probes may be scanable but your system scanner won't go above approx. 15AU.
And sinse when do use a probe that's 15AU+ and get a direct hit the first time? More often than not, you get a so-so hit and warp there and then use a snoop. --- If after I post my opinion, you feel the need to say, "Oh, guess what BRUCE thinks," go put on a tinfoil hat and praise jesus. It's MY opinion, not BRUCEs. |
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