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Radio Silence, or else?

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PuyoPuyoFever	Posted - 2007.07.16 08:30:00 - [1] to Moderators, this is my first time posting, so please move this topic if it doesn't belong in general discussion. warning: minor ranting follows /rant on I've got a questions for all you pod-pilots who have participated in fleet operations: when fleet XO (fleet leader, if you will) ordered "Radio Silence on vent, essential com only", is it really necessary to shoot and podded someone who ignored that order? here's the event that's happened ,as told by an eve-buddy(Mr. A), to give you people better perspective: 10 minutes before contact, a standard radio-silence was announced. 2 minutes after announcement, my friend logged on, and was told to scramble or be stripped of his rank. However, his PvP equipments were two jumps away, and there was no way to get everything ready within 8 minutes. By that point, one of the tacklers got impatient and started to talk nasty stuff about Mr. A's mother. Mr. A responded in kind and a verbal exchange of what'd they do to each other's mother ensued. 1 minute later, fleet XO ordered both of them banned from vent, and also shot & podded as punishment. so, people, here's my second question: would even the most dedicated PvPers go that far? both of them banned from vent, which I can understand. However, shot & podded without warning is a bit over-the-top. Don't you think? /rant off PS: my buddy is not quitting, so you can not have his stuff.
hellsknights Phoenix Navy Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.07.16 08:39:00 - [2] Edited by: hellsknights on 16/07/2007 08:39:14 Edited by: hellsknights on 16/07/2007 08:38:37 Can you say power trip!!!! I think your FC is a tart,if i was in a corp alliance and they allowed this kind of conduct from an FC i would quit promptly. What kind of two bit corp/alliance would allow such a lame thing. POWER TRIPPING DOUCHBAG Hells Let me liberate you of your T2 mods. T2 mods are dropping in price, because of invention?? No its because of pirates.
Akathar Amarri	Posted - 2007.07.16 08:41:00 - [3] Sounds like most of the people in that chat were out of line. That said, it's not that hard to shut up when the XO tells you to.
Auldare Path-finder	Posted - 2007.07.16 08:42:00 - [4] Wont go into much about who was right or wrong in that situation, but will talk about the consequences. The banning from vent wasn't the punishment so to speak, it was to clear the channel and make sure it stayed clear. The punishment was the podding, only way to hurt someone in EVE is to hit their wallet. The FC also cannot spend time as judge to see who started it, in the end 2 people violated the rule therefore 2 people had to pay the 'fine'. Path-finder Recon/intel
Lolapa	Posted - 2007.07.16 08:46:00 - [5] RANK?? What rank? Don't tell me the have pretend military ranks like captain and general and things haha. In that case it doesn't suprise me in the least they where both stripped of their ranks and executed for disobeying orders, laff It's the whole role play thing. I mean keep the chatter to a minimum by all means but if I was in a fleet op with a new corp/alliance and the FC started pulling that crap I'd totally ask him to shove something up his rectum. TBH.
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.07.16 08:48:00 - [6] Kick them from TS and from gang, can't see why the podding was necessary tbh.
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.16 08:50:00 - [7] If the tackler and Mr. A are both so childish that they resort to talking about each other's mothers, then they both deserve to be podded repeatedly until they grow up.
hellsknights Phoenix Navy Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.07.16 08:52:00 - [8] I think the pod killing had to be the lamest thing a FC can do,matter fact any good/mature FC wouldent even consider doing so. Some people have some expensive implants plugged in, losing them to combat is one thing,losing them to your own corpmate is another. Kicking/banning them from vent for an hour would of gotten the point accross just as well.Like i said earlier that FC is lame and that corp is even lamer for condoning that kind of reaction. Hells Let me liberate you of your T2 mods. T2 mods are dropping in price, because of invention?? No its because of pirates.
ApaKaka Lone Starr Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.16 08:54:00 - [9] Sounds like that corp sucks. Join a corp where people actually care and want to have fun, not as a second job. As for smacking and speaking about eachothers mothers on vent during an op, they should be banned, and also kicked out of corp.
hellsknights Phoenix Navy Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.07.16 08:58:00 - [10] Ya the mother talk seems out of place,how old are these players 12??? Hells Let me liberate you of your T2 mods. T2 mods are dropping in price, because of invention?? No its because of pirates.
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.07.16 08:59:00 - [11] My opinion on this: If two people in a gang of mine decided to have an argument and wouldnt shut up then I would mute or move them if I had the admin rights. If not then a swift podding to shut them up would be my medicine. The whole gang is in jeopardy if nobody can hear orders because a couple of selfish idiots are having a fight. Fine if you want to argue, just switch channels! ============================================
Auldare Path-finder	Posted - 2007.07.16 09:09:00 - [12] I have seen many instances where people just do not follow the rules and think they are somehow exempt from them. Even get to the stage where they will blindly argue their right to not cooperate and do what is in the common interest for the group he is meant to be a part of. There are times when the person in charge must execute his authority and do things to regain control. Now there are a lot of different scenarios where this doesn't apply (Mutual respect within a group who all know and trust everyone in said group), but whenever the size of the fleet gets larger the more stern actions for non compliance have to be. Ask your friend this. Does he feel the FC is worth flying under? Does he do a good job? (But dont take into account the punishment he had received) I would say this though, if the leaders of your corp/alliance have to make similar actions happen regularly the corp/alliance is doomed to fail as it shows it's member cannot work together in any shape. Path-finder Recon/intel
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.16 09:14:00 - [13] I think the FC made the right choice. Ventrillo ban to get "radio disciplin" back and pod killing for the utter disrespect both pilots showed for their gang mates sounds very good to me. AND i would consider kicking them from the corp if it happens another time within 2-3 weeks. If the pilots want to smack each other they can use privat-convo or even corp chat but never ever a TS/Vent gang ops channel.
Boonaki Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.07.16 09:18:00 - [14] I so want to flog someone who disrupts TS/Vent comms. For not aligning proper during gate to gate travel, the punishment should be keel hauling. Fear the Ibis of doom! 113
Venduul Caldari Caldari Defense Group	Posted - 2007.07.16 09:33:00 - [15] to the OP: i think ur "buddy" and my main are in the same alliance. that sounds an awful lot like someone i know
Aioa Planetary Assault Systems	Posted - 2007.07.16 09:38:00 - [16] If you care about your gameplay, you care about voicecomm discipline - it can mean the difference between winning and losing. You also have to realise that when you act like a idiot on TS, you are spoiling many others' enjoyment. I don't spend my hard-earned money andd time to listening to children/tards insulting each other. OP's FC made a good call imo
Scorpyn Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.16 09:44:00 - [17] It's a bit odd if they got podded without the fc first telling them to stfu. It also depends a lot on the situation. Radio silence when there is no immediate threat will only make the op boring, while not keeping the discipline during the fights is a very serious issue.
Jita Alt	Posted - 2007.07.16 09:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Venduul to the OP: i think ur "buddy" and my main are in the same alliance. that sounds an awful lot like someone i know How crazy would i sound if i were to mention axiom empire at this point?
Venduul Caldari Caldari Defense Group	Posted - 2007.07.16 09:51:00 - [19] Edited by: Venduul on 16/07/2007 09:51:06 Originally by: Jita Alt Originally by: Venduul to the OP: i think ur "buddy" and my main are in the same alliance. that sounds an awful lot like someone i know How crazy would i sound if i were to mention axiom empire at this point? from what ive heard i wouldnt doubt similar shenanigans there, but thats not the alliance im speaking of
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:06:00 - [20] Radio silence is important, and sometimes popping their ship IS possibly a good option. Take once when I was in FLA. We were doing a fleet op, and we'd come up against something a bit tricky (we were fighting Tri at the time, and they'd set up a nasty blockade on a choke point that there was no easy way of dealing with). The FC and a few other senior PvPers, along with a scout or two, had gone in to Serious Talking ModeÖ on a separate TS channel, and were relaying what they'd come up with to the main TS channel every few seconds. Meanwhile, some eejit started running his mouth off at the top of his voice about how we should "stop ******* TALKING and just do some ACTION!!!!!", and then started spamming the channel every few seconds about how the FCs are stupid, so on and so forth. After telling him to shut up loads of times, someone muted him. Then he started spamming the text chat (including local) with how he was about to go fight them himself (LEROY JENKINS style), and did anyone want to join him. So we kicked him from channel and podded him, to get him out of the way. Thus, podding him for not observing combat comms was a good thing. In your case though, OP, it sounds like the FC was just being a douchebag. --------
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:14:00 - [21] Well, personally, I see the vent ban as the harsher punishment. As long as he's banned, he can't fully participate in any fleet ops at the best of his ability. If he's throwing "your mamma" insults around, he's a child. Verbal scolding generally has little effect on children, so sometimes harsher discipline is necessary. I personally would have podded first, vent banned second though.
Excesse Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:17:00 - [22] There's never any point destroying the assets of a member of your own corp/alliance, is there.
Venduul Caldari Caldari Defense Group	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:22:00 - [23] Originally by: Venduul Edited by: Venduul on 16/07/2007 09:51:06 Originally by: Jita Alt Originally by: Venduul to the OP: i think ur "buddy" and my main are in the same alliance. that sounds an awful lot like someone i know How crazy would i sound if i were to mention axiom empire at this point? from what ive heard i wouldnt doubt similar shenanigans there, but thats not the alliance im speaking of Hey Patch, youll know who im talking about, as u recently left this particular alliance
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Lolapa RANK?? What rank? Don't tell me the have pretend military ranks like captain and general and things haha. In that case it doesn't suprise me in the least they where both stripped of their ranks and executed for disobeying orders, laff It's the whole role play thing. I mean keep the chatter to a minimum by all means but if I was in a fleet op with a new corp/alliance and the FC started pulling that crap I'd totally ask him to shove something up his rectum. TBH. If you're in anything that even resembles a serious corp and there's no tertiary grouping between directors and entry level scrubs... well, then you're not in a serious corp, now, are you?
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:29:00 - [25] He said radio silence. The guy who got impatient and started the **** should have been kicked and punished immediately. If not, the XO should have told them to shut up, and the next person who talks gets punished. If they both ignore that, I'd not only pod them but kick them from the corp. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Selorian	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Venduul Originally by: Venduul Edited by: Venduul on 16/07/2007 09:51:06 Originally by: Jita Alt Originally by: Venduul to the OP: i think ur "buddy" and my main are in the same alliance. that sounds an awful lot like someone i know How crazy would i sound if i were to mention axiom empire at this point? from what ive heard i wouldnt doubt similar shenanigans there, but thats not the alliance im speaking of Hey Patch, youll know who im talking about, as u recently left this particular alliance Hmm.. Sparta?
Venduul Caldari Caldari Defense Group	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Selorian Originally by: Venduul Originally by: Venduul Edited by: Venduul on 16/07/2007 09:51:06 Originally by: Jita Alt Originally by: Venduul to the OP: i think ur "buddy" and my main are in the same alliance. that sounds an awful lot like someone i know How crazy would i sound if i were to mention axiom empire at this point? from what ive heard i wouldnt doubt similar shenanigans there, but thats not the alliance im speaking of Hey Patch, youll know who im talking about, as u recently left this particular alliance Hmm.. Sparta? yarrr!!! you get the cookie
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:44:00 - [28] Some people REALLY take this game to seriously Ok, sometimes someone needs to take charge, but beeing 'stripped of ur rank' and shooting someone. heh, he should have warned them from smacktalk number 1 and if they continued a ban, but shooting? heh, if this guy had done that to me his days would have been numbered, he could be expecting a torpedo up his rear nozzle when he least expected it. But there u have it and the reason i don't like the big alliances and fleetops at all, there are always a few peeps who need to go ubah powermonger on u in game. So u... err... i mean ur buddy gonna take any revenge? like betraying the SOB to his enemies? CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:45:00 - [29] Stuff like this makes me glad im not in a 0.0 corporation run by kids. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Dionisius Gallente Ordem dos Templarios Pax Atlantis	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:54:00 - [30] Just a mute in ts/vent would do, anything more from that like a kick from gang would be insued if they continued in the unapropriated channels. Other than that its just like waving the I'M THE MAN!!! banner high up in the void of space. _______________________ Originally by: Splagada Edited by: Splagada on 21/06/2007 13:51:39 in eve you can break their windows, take over the house, and throw the children in the fire.
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.16 10:56:00 - [31] Definately yes, The FC did the right thing podding the two tards. Hell, I'd just pod gallente pilots cuz I can't stand pink ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:18:00 - [32] Leaving aside the rather harsh 'get there NOW or lose your rank' business, Agony has a procedure for people who won't shut up on vent. The first thing to do is to remind everybody that they're supposed to be quiet, that works 99% of the time. Failing that, you mute people, and then discuss it with them afterwards. We wouldn't pop their ship, we'd only have to replace it from the corp hangar. Recruitment FAQ
Ali Amarano	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:18:00 - [33] Too many people take EvE way to seriously. Its only a game although its a very good one. I agree if you use Voice Comms there should be some discipline but being podded is just going way to far. I have seen so many situations like this in the last 4 years I have played. (yes this is not my main OMG!!!) I have lost count the ammount of times I have refrained from going on OPs due to the attitude of people involved in them.When people start demanding 'X UP FOR GANG NOW!' and similar in chats I start to get very disinterested tbh. Maybe if these people who DEMAND I join in were actually paying me to play EvE rather than me paying to play it then it would be different. The attitude of an awful lot of people in alliances these days absolutly stink and they way they talk to members is embarresing. They seem to forget there is more to EvE than running around shooting everything. They seem to think that because you want to help out in 0.0 that you MUST pvp pretty much all the time. And if you dont shout 'HOW HIGH SIR?' when they shout 'JUMP!!!FFS>>>COME NOW>>>>OMFG' they treat you like your a completly worthless individual. The day alliances realise that without the members that sort out building...buying etc etc there would be a lot less targets for them to shoot and it might actually become a much nicer situation to play in. Too many have little man syndrome and the louder they shout the less I listen as it really does get boring. Someone said to me that armys dont get anywhere by being nice to soldiers.....Well heres news for you all that think like that. IM NOT IN THE ARMY.....Im paying for and playing a GAME. Get a life and accept that no matter how much you shout and scream or threaten to kick people who dont come running or do as you expect its not going to change. Kick them out and your going to find that someone else will just take their place. Learn to talk properly to people and treat them with a little respect and its suprising just how much more you will get from them...scream and shout and you can forget it. Just making yourselves look stupid . Thats Life (its a GAME FFS) Flame On
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:49:00 - [34] Somthing quite a few people have missed is that the FCs decision was made shortly befor an engagement (which was known to come). 4 minutes befor the enemy arrives is really no time to stop at warning someone, most of the time this just leads to more "discussions" So Vent ban and podding was the fastest and most efficient way to get rid of a problem disturbing the op. Yes, some alliance commanders go a bit too far when they demand participation in their ops and as long as its not to defend the home system i dont like that either. BUT if its a defense op i really expect everyone to help even if its only in a frig. 100% corp tax usually gets everyones attention if calls in ally/corp chat dont help. And tbh the best way to do ops is with a military structure with one in command.
Karunel Princeps Corp YouWhat	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:57:00 - [35] Originally by: Jim McGregor Stuff like this makes me glad im not in a 0.0 corporation run by kids. It's not kiddie stuff; if you're on a fleet op and two people start arguing over Ventrilo your whole fleet can go down the toilet. Podding or otherwise getting the two to shut up is what a responsable person should do, IMO. I don't really get your comment tbh. ____ Originally by: elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:58:00 - [36] I hate when ppl can't STFU on TS, so annoying. Sounds like the FC did the right thing IMO. If you can't listen, and you're going to disrupt the OP with childish ****, go somewhere else... Building the homestead
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:59:00 - [37] If you play Eve at that level, then what the FC says is law. Your mate should have known to not respond, and the mouthy tackler would have got his just deserts, and your mate would be fine. Personally I play Eve to have fun, not get ordered around by some jumped up nartzi with a half inch peynis, but hey, whatever floats your boat. Second Life? Pah! This makes Eve sound more like Second Job!
Ozzie Asrail Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:09:00 - [38] Always more to a story than the 1 side though... Clear coms before a big fight is 100% nessesary, if 2 idiots start acting like 10 year olds and get kicked and podded then you can't say they did nothing wrong. -----
Dionisius Gallente Ordem dos Templarios Pax Atlantis	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:16:00 - [39] Originally by: Red Harvest Somthing quite a few people have missed is that the FCs decision was made shortly befor an engagement (which was known to come). 4 minutes befor the enemy arrives is really no time to stop at warning someone, most of the time this just leads to more "discussions" So Vent ban and podding was the fastest and most efficient way to get rid of a problem disturbing the op. Yes, some alliance commanders go a bit too far when they demand participation in their ops and as long as its not to defend the home system i dont like that either. BUT if its a defense op i really expect everyone to help even if its only in a frig. 100% corp tax usually gets everyones attention if calls in ally/corp chat dont help. And tbh the best way to do ops is with a military structure with one in command. Right, taking your atention away from your real targets was the proper course of action... nice touch, classy. _______________________ Originally by: Splagada Edited by: Splagada on 21/06/2007 13:51:39 in eve you can break their windows, take over the house, and throw the children in the fire.
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:25:00 - [40] Originally by: Dionisius Right, taking your atention away from your real targets was the proper course of action... nice touch, classy. Getting disciplin and focus back is way more important. Hostiles can be ignored till you are ready to engage them.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:31:00 - [41] sounds like a drunken iac op Join The Fight With Promo Today
00Dead Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:48:00 - [42] Comms discipline is essential for fleet ops. If certain members are unable to grasp when they can and can not speak in TS then they deserve everything they get. Usually in the following order: 1) Polite STFU from FC 2) Angry STFU from FC 3) kick/temp ban on TS and a podding if necessary. 4) if the situation doesnt improve on future ops then you have pretty much no choice other to kick them from corp. Communication between fc's and scouts in essential and people who can't adhere to comms dicipline have no place in many corps.
Rooker Lysian Enterprises United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:05:00 - [43] I've been sorely tempted to open fire on a few people for clogging up the comms. A couple of ******s actually caused a whole fleet to go off in two different directions because they were talking over the FC at the wrong moment. Some people heard about the new destination, some people didn't and we had to stop to sort it out. Some people are just too stupid to understand what "STFU" means and you can't do anything but mute them. I wouldn't pod anyone over it, but I'd sure be tempted. -- Forum Rules: 1) Do Not post while angry 2) Do Not post while drunk 3) Never, ever break rule #1 and #2 at the same time <== Guilty
Stakhanov kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:06:00 - [44] You got it wrong... kick the troublemaker from vent & gang , then kicking him from corp after several incidents / complaints... at which point he's fair game. You don't pod your own corpmates , you power tripping freaks If you're so desperate for fighters that you keep annoying idiots , you deserve to have your corp hangars emptied. That's what I would do if I were purposely podded by the people in charge
Robke Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:10:00 - [45] Originally by: Curzon Dax If the tackler and Mr. A are both so childish that they resort to talking about each other's mothers, then they both deserve to be podded repeatedly until they grow up. The problem is that you dont grow up by repeated podding; you 'grow down'.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:28:00 - [46] its what happens when people take eve too seriously ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:52:00 - [47] Originally by: SiJira its what happens when people take eve too seriously This has nothing to do with taking eve too serious (lots of ppl do though) but efficient teamplay. For the more idividualistic ppl this isnt fun but for me and lots of other ppl its great to fly with a good organized gang and an FC who knows what he¦s doing. Just a different level of gameplay which i think is more mature and professional but still fun. BTW i keep telling my mates the same about their football (aka soccer), that they are taking it too serious etc but on the other hand their regional liga club is quite successful.
Wardog 1 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:54:00 - [48] DaMiGe podded me once when my keyboard broke
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:58:00 - [49] Originally by: Red Harvest Originally by: SiJira its what happens when people take eve too seriously This has nothing to do with taking eve too serious (lots of ppl do though) but efficient teamplay. For the more idividualistic ppl this isnt fun but for me and lots of other ppl its great to fly with a good organized gang and an FC who knows what he¦s doing. Just a different level of gameplay which i think is more mature and professional but still fun. BTW i keep telling my mates the same about their football (aka soccer), that they are taking it too serious etc but on the other hand their regional liga club is quite successful. i disagree when you ruin someones entire gameday instead of just abandoning them from the team then you are taking it too seriously its like kicking someone off your team and holding them down and kicking their shins before you leave them where they lie ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
ChronoSphere Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.07.16 14:02:00 - [50] When running in a RISE fleet the FC is god, for all intents and purposes. If you don't like how he is running things you can A) Leave the gang B) Relieve the FC of the gang and take command yourself IF you outrank him C) Speak with him after the action is over about what you didn't like, and if that doesn't resolve it you speak to their superior officer. At no point do you violate the chain of command. Those that due get kicked off TS and from gang. Its a simple system and it works. ---- RADM ChronoSphere Security Division Assistant Director Sturmgrenadier, Inc.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.16 14:13:00 - [51] Originally by: ChronoSphere When running in a RISE fleet the FC is god, for all intents and purposes. If you don't like how he is running things you can A) Leave the gang B) Relieve the FC of the gang and take command yourself IF you outrank him C) Speak with him after the action is over about what you didn't like, and if that doesn't resolve it you speak to their superior officer. At no point do you violate the chain of command. Those that due get kicked off TS and from gang. Its a simple system and it works. if the army worked like that then new soldiers would be stranded all over the battlefields eh? not very smart ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.16 14:25:00 - [52] Originally by: PuyoPuyoFever so, people, here's my second question: would even the most dedicated PvPers go that far? both of them banned from vent, which I can understand. However, shot & podded without warning is a bit over-the-top. Don't you think? Sounds fair to me, provided they were warned first but kept on talking anyway. If not, then there should have been a sharp warning first. My alliance had to do this to one member not so long ago (for refusing to stop talking in local when ordered, refusing to obey orders in general, cursing out the FC and alliance mates, and shooting at blues - all in one op) and he was kicked out of his corp shortly after that. He used the 24 hour waiting period before they could throw him out to practically non-stop spam alliance chat though. Was kinda funny. ------------------
baaaaal	Posted - 2007.07.16 14:30:00 - [53] Edited by: baaaaal on 16/07/2007 14:34:40 sounds to me like the 2 people arguing over teamspeak during a fleet op are immature idiots who deserved to be pod killed. everyone should respect the pilots they are flying with on a fleet op, if it wasnt a fleet op and nothing important was going and both of them knew the other was just joking around with the name calling then thats fine imo. but on a fleet op all pilots should. keep comms clear at all times once told do so unless they are a scout or are anouncing an EW target ie "xxx dampeners" etc so the FC knows which targets should be given priority keep BS chat to gang chat not over voice comms the FC needs to be able to command the fleet if you are stopping him from doing so its your own fault if he chooses to pop you. in the alliance my main is in no bs is tolerated on ops even if we are just forming up , people can say whatever they like in gang chat but voice comms must be kept quiet unless you have a damn good reason to speak ie your asking what ship type is needed. Quote: I have lost count the ammount of times I have refrained from going on OPs due to the attitude of people involved in them.When people start demanding 'X UP FOR GANG NOW!' my opinion and i suspect many others people is that if you join a mainly pvp alliance you should be expected to join defensive gangs and offensive gangs unless you are a member of one of the alliances industrial corps or you are known to the alliance as someone who particpates in pvp operations on a regular basis. dont join a 0.0 alliance that likes to pew pew if all you want is access to there space so you can make alot of money of the rest of the alliances losses. why should 80% of the alliance lose ships so you can get rich? if you arent donating minerals etc to the war effort
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.16 14:33:00 - [54] Originally by: SiJira if the army worked like that then new soldiers would be stranded all over the battlefields eh? not very smart Most armys work pretty much like that and o/c on all ships (commander = GOD). Recruts/sailors get drilled hard to grasp that right from the start. Armys are no democracys and thats why they are efficient at what they do. And actually you can be shot in most armys during a war (even today) if you disobey orders or sabotage the own troops (not to mention cowardice in battle). On the bright side death is pretty much meaningless in EVE unless you lose some very expensiv imps and/or ship so i certainly wouldnt hesitate shooting a corp mate whos annoying everyone over TS if the FC orders it.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.16 14:37:00 - [55] Originally by: Red Harvest Originally by: SiJira if the army worked like that then new soldiers would be stranded all over the battlefields eh? not very smart Most armys work pretty much like that and o/c on all ships (commander = GOD). Recruts/sailors get drilled hard to grasp that right from the start. Armys are no democracys and thats why they are efficient at what they do. And actually you can be shot in most armys during a war (even today) if you disobey orders or sabotage the own troops (not to mention cowardice in battle). On the bright side death is pretty much meaningless in EVE unless you lose some very expensiv imps and/or ship so i certainly wouldnt hesitate shooting a corp mate whos annoying everyone over TS if the FC orders it. this guy came after the orders were given from what i read this is like shooting your reinforcements without giving them any brief because they disobeyed the unique rules you have in place that they do not know about - if you notice the most efficient armies today do not shoot their own soldiers ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.16 14:59:00 - [56] He came in later but he was informed about the op and ordered to grab a combat ship (thats how i read it). He even might not have heard the order about radio silence (if it wasnt repeated). BUT if there is a fleet op it doesnt matter! He should have known about the radio silence if he wasnt a total noob with the corps way to run gangs. He simply shouldnt have answered back to the tackler and nothing would have happened to him. Im 100% sure that "the most efficient armies", whoever those might be (maybe the british), have a draconic disciplin. Soldiers that talk back or cant keep their mouth shut certainly have no place there.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:08:00 - [57] Originally by: Red Harvest He came in later but he was informed about the op and ordered to grab a combat ship (thats how i read it). He even might not have heard the order about radio silence (if it wasnt repeated). BUT if there is a fleet op it doesnt matter! He should have known about the radio silence if he wasnt a total noob with the corps way to run gangs. He simply shouldnt have answered back to the tackler and nothing would have happened to him. Im 100% sure that "the most efficient armies", whoever those might be (maybe the british), have a draconic disciplin. Soldiers that talk back or cant keep their mouth shut certainly have no place there. arguments about mothers should just be ignored - i do agree ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:09:00 - [58] Sounds completely redundant to me... I'd hate to be in a corp like that... Saying that, I've only ever had a good time on VT whether we're on ops or what, and anyone that's wanted an organised comm system has generally left our group of gamers... Even in combat, you get random spam from the channels: FC: Primary is X Gang Member 1: I'm getting shot! Gang Member 2: Would everyone stop getting shot! FC: Shut the fudge up, guys! Kill X Gang Member 2: You shut up! Hell, I'm gonna shoot you! It's all fun and games... Anyone that takes it too seriously needs to chill and watch some Ace Ventura... Latest Video, Click Here!
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:12:00 - [59] Originally by: PuyoPuyoFever to Moderators, this is my first time posting, so please move this topic if it doesn't belong in general discussion. warning: minor ranting follows /rant on I've got a questions for all you pod-pilots who have participated in fleet operations: when fleet XO (fleet leader, if you will) ordered "Radio Silence on vent, essential com only", is it really necessary to shoot and podded someone who ignored that order? here's the event that's happened ,as told by an eve-buddy(Mr. A), to give you people better perspective: 10 minutes before contact, a standard radio-silence was announced. 2 minutes after announcement, my friend logged on, and was told to scramble or be stripped of his rank. However, his PvP equipments were two jumps away, and there was no way to get everything ready within 8 minutes. By that point, one of the tacklers got impatient and started to talk nasty stuff about Mr. A's mother. Mr. A responded in kind and a verbal exchange of what'd they do to each other's mother ensued. 1 minute later, fleet XO ordered both of them banned from vent, and also shot & podded as punishment. so, people, here's my second question: would even the most dedicated PvPers go that far? both of them banned from vent, which I can understand. However, shot & podded without warning is a bit over-the-top. Don't you think? /rant off PS: my buddy is not quitting, so you can not have his stuff. Your FC is on a power trip.
PuyoPuyoFever	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:16:00 - [60] wow, i didn't expect this many replies... thank you so much. anyway~ to clear a few things up: 1. the radio silence 10 minutes before contact was standard procedure. 2. it was an defensive OP on a major choke point. 3. corp tell every single fresh recruit this: "this is a corp run by mostly active- or ex- military people, so if you don't feel like taking orders. STFU and leave now." 4. also, each recruit has to read a long list of "protocols" before they join corp, and quite obviously, some chose to click "Yes, I have read and understood the above." without reading at all. So yeah, podding seems like right solution for not reading the corp's "EULA". 5. and no, my main actually witnessed the whole thing in that operation, and I had the pleasure of hearing Mr. A complaining/b****ing/sm@cktalking about it over a few drinks afterward.
Venduul Caldari Caldari Defense Group	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:20:00 - [61] Originally by: MacroDoomer Originally by: Venduul Originally by: Selorian Hmm.. Sparta? yarrr!!! you get the cookie THIS...IS...SPAAAAARTAH! No This...is...a....Disastaaah!!! but u didnt hear it from me...mkay?
Stakhanov kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:29:00 - [62] Who cares about what's most efficient in the army ? This is a game. Fleet ops are supposed to be based on voluntary participation , anyone is free to join and leave without needing a reason. It's not like you have to manage drafted soldiers. If the FC thinks he has absolute powers on his gang members , something is wrong. The only power he should have is to expell whoever he thinks doesn't fit in the team , at his discretion. A friend , even kicked out of the gang , remains a friend. It is wrong to kill him unless he was disruptive enough to become an enemy. There is no middle ground , it makes no sense.
Rho Enneyway	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:32:00 - [63] Defiantly sounds like the FCs of one of the new pet alliances in the north... Gate camping for raiders long enough would make me turn on my comrades too!
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:32:00 - [64] Thanks for the clarification. Especially with those points in mind, podding was a thing both should have seen comming. If Mr. A cant swallow it he should really think if he isnt in the wrong corp. A corp with military structure and leadership might not be the right place for him.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:42:00 - [65] What has this game come to?! You cant even have a heated discussion between corpies about their ho bag moms because it is punishable by 14 milisecond death! _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:48:00 - [66] Originally by: Sharupak What has this game come to?! You cant even have a heated discussion between corpies about their ho bag moms because it is punishable by 14 milisecond death! Im sure you can discuss that as much as you like in that corp too but not during a fleet op on the command channel.
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.07.16 16:14:00 - [67] If it is clear to the members prior to joining that they are joining a **** corporation then by all means the FC and punishment handed out was accurate. You should know what you're getting into before you actually get into it. I'm guessing this isn't the first time "power" actions have occured with whatever corp/alliance you're referring to =P --- Put in space whales!
Kurlieu Gallente The Ore House	Posted - 2007.07.16 16:46:00 - [68] Sounds to me like there is more to the story that we're not hearing. They should have been booted from TS immediately. If they kept it up, they should have been booted from gang as well. It does seem a bit odd, but not unheard of, to get podded immediately. My guess is, that one or both have a history of such behavior. Perhaps the XO was just having a bad day as well. In my experience the voice rules are pretty clearly posted, along with potential repercussions from violating the rules. I've seen FC's and Captains busted to Private without hesitation. You simply cannot jeopardize the fleet. Same goes for posting in local/ship naming/whatever. 0.0 can be very serious business at times. I can't get into the specifics, but hundreds of ships were lost a few weekends ago, and IMO a lot of the losses were due to poor circuit discipline. There is a chain of command and channels for a reason.
dragonssbane Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.07.16 16:54:00 - [69] Radio silence is standard. It is what it is. You kick em form gang and ts. And if it becomes and issue and the offender repeats, kick em from corp. It is frustrating to try to let the FC know that I have picked up gang that is warping to our gate and numbnutt #1 and numbnutt #2 are talking about how many hot dogs their mama's can swallow at once. You yell break break and they keep talking. Now I lose my ship and all my fittings along with 4 other mates because the FC can not hear over the numbnutt twins that a nasty gang was on the way. Hmm...blowing there asses out of the sky does not sound so bad now does it. The rules of conduct is very specific especially for corps and alliances that run ops via headset. For our corp mainly it is to ensure that every one has an enjoyable evening gathering skulls and kill mails.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.16 17:00:00 - [70] Edited by: Tortun Nahme on 16/07/2007 16:59:56 never done it in eve-o but if some nuckleheads are mucking up my squad/platoon comms on bf2142 the unit gets the tk order, and not just the player/s talking, their entire squad. Nothing straightens out discipline real fast like having your entire squad ticked at you for getting them killed, either the person learns the lesson, or they get replaced Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.17 09:11:00 - [71] Originally by: Red Harvest 4 minutes befor the enemy arrives is really no time to stop at warning someone, most of the time this just leads to more "discussions" Obviously, this depends on your corp. If an Agony FC says "Battlecoms", everybody shuts up. We all know what the word means, and we've all had the reason for it explained to us in detail. Sure, if the person won't shut up, you mute them. But if they're going to make it out of the battle alive, they're going to need to be able to hear what's going on; cutting them off from communications completely doesn't help anybody. A military structure is a very useful thing in combat situations, but just as FCs demand some professionalism from their pilots (the discipline to shut up when the channel needs to be clear for intel or orders), I think pilots can reasonably expect professionalism from FCs (respect for their dignity, and to refrain from pointless destruction of assets). Recruitment FAQ
Jotan Veer HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2007.07.17 10:10:00 - [72] Edited by: Jotan Veer on 17/07/2007 10:10:08 I'm currently in a smallish corp where everyone knows each other so a lot is allowed on ventrilo. However, my opinion if you join the army then be a man to face the consequences. Ie, if you join a corp where com rules are so strict then either follow the rules or leave the corp. Everyone has a right to play with other like minded players. If a group of players enjoy such a high level of discipline during pvp ops then it's cool in my book. Whoever can't take it can GTFO of that corp imho. It can be annoying to listen to bickering of two immature jackasses when one is trying to lead a fleet so I can understand the FC's point of view. HUN Corp. recruitment status: frozen
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.17 10:57:00 - [73] Originally by: Stakhanov Who cares about what's most efficient in the army ? This is a game. Fleet ops are supposed to be based on voluntary participation , anyone is free to join and leave without needing a reason. It's not like you have to manage drafted soldiers. If the FC thinks he has absolute powers on his gang members , something is wrong. The only power he should have is to expell whoever he thinks doesn't fit in the team , at his discretion. A friend , even kicked out of the gang , remains a friend. It is wrong to kill him unless he was disruptive enough to become an enemy. There is no middle ground , it makes no sense. that might e your opinion or of your alliance. But many are not like that, for the priviledge of using allaince resources, outposts, space etc.. you are entitled to be on MANDATORY ops. It within all right of an allaince to shoot, boot do anythign to members that disobey prime directives of allaince. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.24 14:45:00 - [74] Originally by: Jita Alt Originally by: Venduul to the OP: i think ur "buddy" and my main are in the same alliance. that sounds an awful lot like someone i know How crazy would i sound if i were to mention axiom empire at this point? Pretty damn batty. We'd have also stripped his roles and kicked him from the corp. Take it to Gang chat. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.07.24 16:13:00 - [75] The FC was right to do this. You quite simply do not argue with the FC when ordered to do something. Your choice at that point is to leave the gang, and you may face expulsion from the corp or if you were 'right' you might see the FC taking heat for his actions. But you follow orders, or don't play. I have had Corp members who were a disruptive influence in the past several times. The first time it was the Cousin of the CEO, which made him immune to punishment. I left that Corp when it was obvious things would not change, and took many members with me. The Corp was the loser in that exchange. Another time a T2-owning Miner would gang members for mining ops while we were on PVP gangs. This is in addition to not PVP'ng cuz his stuff was 'too valuable to risk.' I killed his Hulk, podded him, and kicked him from the corp. Point being that disruptive behavior should NOT be tolerated. Ever. You need to check your egos and submit to the FC. If you don't like that fact, then leave. If you argue with me over it, I'll 'help' you leave and never return.
Minmatar096773	Posted - 2007.08.31 10:50:00 - [76] This is one of those situations you can only discuss once it happens and when you have all the facts.
A wiseman Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.31 11:05:00 - [77] FC's job description in big ass fleets 1 fleet comander 2 tell people to shut up on comms so A) he can think and B) so he dosen't miss the OMG Titan at the gate!!! due to you insulting a fellow nub
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.31 11:13:00 - [78] Speaking as an FC, my response to that situation would have been. 1: Let the guy who couldn't make it off the hook. if he can't get there, he can't get there. fair enough. 2: Tell them both to shut the feth up. 3: Move them to another room (we use TS), and kick from gang. 4: Tempa-ban from the TS server if they come back in and start whining. 5: "Right, that's it. Kill the stupid bastard's ship." - Circulate the pilot's name and behaviour to the rest of the alliance's FCs and refuse to reimburse his ship. We NEVER pod-kill our own. Under any circumstances. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Luigi Thirty Caldari 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2007.08.31 11:15:00 - [79] Edited by: Luigi Thirty on 31/08/2007 11:15:15 Because Eve is SERIOUS BUSINESS and ex-military armchair generals are the elite in this game right The two times I commanded something everyone just shut up, so ---- DOMINIX IS INVINCIBLE:(((( Miner Luigi I am! I am a lucky miner! Let me tell you why!
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.31 11:18:00 - [80] Originally by: Luigi Thirty The two times I commanded something everyone just shut up, so Yeah, that's generally what happens. A well-placed" Guys, shut the hell up we're trying to PvP here" is usually enough to stop it dead in its tracks. people who ignore the FC telling them to can it are generally asking for whatever kicks/bans/firepower winds up coming their way. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.31 11:22:00 - [81] It isn't about punishing the two don't break the radio silence again in the future, it's about making sure _no one else_ tries the same thing. As long the punishment isn't more sever than getting banned from vent, others might feel like the risk is worth pushing a little once in a while.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.08.31 11:24:00 - [82] threadnecroing is bad mkay? CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.08.31 11:29:00 - [83] I see many people going: People take Eve way to seriously. But in the end its a competitive game, just like soccer, wrestling and so on. Someone are willing to take the game a step further to get the extra little they need to win. In this case voicecom. Everyone who have been in gangs, fleets and so on knows how crucial fast, effective voicecoms are. If you are not willing to play on that level so be it. But dont ruin other peoples gameexperience with bs on the voicecoms when hostile contact is about to happend.

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