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Aleranie
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Posted - 2007.07.26 10:56:00 -
[31]
Shields are better than armor for pve, simply because of passive regen lets you turn your tank off without a risk of going pop. The additional armor hp also makes shield tanking a lot more forgiving if you are inebriated.
Missiles > Drones because you can stuff damage mods on a raven, and there isn't even a direct equivalent for drones.
Thats in addition to all the other things listed.
P.S. Sentries suck compared to heavies dps wise.
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Gawain Hill
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Posted - 2007.07.26 11:09:00 -
[32]
i rat in a harbinger or abaddon... i never use ANY ammo don't usually bother letting out my drones and can hold a few dozen faction spawns worth of loot in my hold with all that space i'm saving from not using ammo can even do it in a PvP fit and have cap boosters which are replaced many times over from battleship spawns so why would anyone rat in anything other than an amarr ship?
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Ziggy Stardustt
SwEaTy ArMpIT RaIDeRs
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.26 11:31:00 -
[33]
Deimos m8, any 0.0 spawn pasted   
 Originally by: Zkillz kun
Originally by: Trass
Originally by: Garret Marx
I never understood this. Everyone treats Raven as if it's the top of the line ratting ship but a dominix with t1 drones will out rat a raven with full missile skills.
I never understood people who rat in slow lazy battleships...
Why rat in a Raven or Dominix when you can rat in a Myrmidon?
why rat in a myrmidon when you can rat in a thorax
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.26 11:50:00 -
[34]
why rat in anything else than a titan! dd 50 belts at once!
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Ione Hunt
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.26 12:06:00 -
[35]
Yes, Gallente needs a nerf because Caldari absolutely SUCKS for PVE 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.07.26 12:13:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Akita T on 26/07/2007 12:17:01
Dominix with 5 gardes, 5 bouncers (or wardens, depends what you're "hunting") and 125m of whatever drones you might like extra.
Avoids most issues a heavy-drones Dominix has (oh, look, no scooping delay, no delayed damage issues, and for the friggies just use meds)... and then some, because it can be even faster as a Raven, especially if you also fit some GUNS (instead of just NOS).
Originally by: Aleranie
P.S. Sentries suck compared to heavies dps wise.
Hello, reality check ?
Garde I DPS > Ogre I DPS.
And Garde II DPS is not significantly lower as Ogre II DPS, it's only a bit lower because Ogre also gets at least 8% (at most 10%) extra DPS from the Gallente Drone Specialisation skill (while Garde II does not).
Then you have Bouncer, which has a pretty decent damage (both type and amount) AND great range.
_
Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
D CENT
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Posted - 2007.07.26 12:16:00 -
[37]
Just have to say that ratting in either of the ships is viable also the domi if you can push it can chain triple bs spawns and mine at the same time meaning that the domi is far more versitile in regards to 0.0 anything! Altho if ratting is the thing you are most interested in the raven will win! With right missile skills using cruise youll kill bs faster than any heavy drone!
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Dreadmuppet Four
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Posted - 2007.07.26 13:01:00 -
[38]
only advatage of the domi I can think of it that it allows you to fit a couple of tractors and salvagers without taking too much of a hit on DPS, those rigs cost a bloody fortune you know 
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Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
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Posted - 2007.07.26 14:05:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Garret Marx
I never understood this. Everyone treats Raven as if it's the top of the line ratting ship but a dominix with t1 drones will out rat a raven with full missile skills.
in highsec, you are right 
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Originally by: Marduk Felzhen
You have an amazing cleavage, except you have no arms :(
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NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys
Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.26 14:33:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Akita T
Hello, reality check ?
Garde I DPS > Ogre I DPS.
And Garde II DPS is not significantly lower as Ogre II DPS, it's only a bit lower because Ogre also gets at least 8% (at most 10%) extra DPS from the Gallente Drone Specialisation skill (while Garde II does not).
Care to run those numbers for me? Not that I disagree, but iirc that wasnt the case when I last had a look, and I dont have a client at hand at the moment.
Post count: 672774
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NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys
Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.26 14:47:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ashaz
Raven utilizes a shield tank which is far mre efficient then an armortank. Since when?
I only know armortanking so I wouldn't know about this part.
Since always. Shield is more effective than armor tanks. Period. The reason armortanks are more used for pvp is the fact that they are lowslot. There are long threads about this, if you want more info.
Originally by: Ashaz
Ammo is common - t2 drones are not as common. Uhu I never have trouble getting em anywhere...
*shrug* me neither tbh.
When in new 0.0, or any backend system tbh, theres no issue throwing up a pos and spew out torps and missiles left and right with just loot refinings and haulerspawns. How much is a torp bpo? How much is a Ogre II bpo? I'm not saying they are impossible to come by, im saying while you more often than not can make sure you have a steady supply of torps in system, drones will be a few jumps - at the very least - off.
Originally by: Ashaz
Damage is way higher on a torp raven than a drone/nosdomi. You are right on this one, though 2 large armor reppoers, 3 heavy NOS and a cloak give me some added security.
Cloak lower ratting speed. And I thought you said anyone with half a brain could dock up anyway?
Originally by: Ashaz
Domi's weaponry got a long travel time or low damage. Missle travel time also exists and due to my fittet traktor beams and salvager I am faster at looting to make up for it...
yes missiles have traveltime. but nowhere near as slow as ogres, or even valkyries.
Difference is the travel time for missiles is just a delay, while on drones its lost damage. If you have boogies 75 km ahead of you and 75km behind you, you will maintain your 800 dps with the torp raven, while the domi has to wait for drones to fly 150km - 0 dps meanwhile. Extreme example - but you get the point.
Thanks for answering the rest btw, Ashaz.
I'm not saying the domi is a bad ratting ship, after all its the one I'm flying myself. Though I see every point in flying a raven - it IS a better PvE ship. And note the fact that you have the option to upgrade to a CNR with the raven. I long for the day when the domi gets a counterpart with another drone controlled. =)
Post count: 31714
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:53:00 -
[42]
Basically if you stick a max skilled rat fit siege Raven (or variant) in a system with multiple spawns it'll get to the bottom of the belt list faster than any other ship in the game.
When you get to the point where pretty much every BS is 3-5 volleys of torps or less there really isn't any competition. Your ridiculous dps Domi/Mega might blow up a BS in 3.2 nanoseconds but it just spends too much time pratting about with optimals.
I guess if you came across an abnormally high amount of HAC spawns (250k'ish rats) then one of the CS's might do it quicker.
The Raven is easily the most efficient (and boring) ratter in the game.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:16:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Akita T on 26/07/2007 18:22:21
Sure, NoNah, quite easy. Here's without any ship bonuses :
Garde I : 50 thermal x 1.60 / 4 sec = 20 base DPS -> 50 DPS max
Ogre I : 24 thermal x 1.60 / 2 sec = 19.2 base DPS -> 48 DPS max
Garde II : 50 x 1.92 / 4 sec = 24 (sort of) base DPS -> 60 DPS max
Ogre II : 24 x 1.92 * 1.08 (or 1.1) / 2 sec = 24.8832 or 25.344 (sort of) base DPS -> 63.36 DPS max
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Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys
Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 26/07/2007 18:20:33
Sure, NoNah
Garde I : 50 thermal x 1.60 / 4 sec = 20 base DPS -> 50 DPS max
Ogre I : 24 thermal x 1.60 / 2 sec = 19.2 base DPS -> 48 DPS max
Garde II : 50 x 1.92 / 4 sec = 24 (sort of) base DPS -> 60 DPS max
Ogre II : 24 x 1.92 * 1.08 (or 1.1) / 2 sec = 24.8832 or 25.344 (sort of) base DPS -> 63.36 DPS max
As previously stated, I still dont have a client at hand, so I may very well be wrong but, continuing your numbers...
Bouncer I: 50 * 1.4 / 4 = 17.5
Curator I: 50 * 1.3 / 4 = 16.25
Warden I: 50 * 1.2 / 4 = 15
Berserker I: 24 * 1.3 / 2 = 15.6
Praetor I: 24 * 1.15 / 2 = 13.8
Wasp I: 24 * 1.45 / 2 = 17.4
And sentry drones have rigs to back them up.
This is just terribly annoying. Few months back, I went over the numbers and came to the same conclusion - sentries deal more damage. I was happy.
Then a few weeks back, I tested it and went through all the numbers again, and with the support of the fellow posters in the same thread - we reached the opposit conclusion. Heavies did in fact deal more damage. I just couldnt get it right. And now I'm back where I started.
This is simple math! Just cant figure out what went wrong that second time. Or what I'm forgetting now and here. Seeing that we have as much as 3(!) factors... Bah!
Post count: 609064
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:10:00 -
[45]
You're probably mixing T1 sentries with T2 heavies, or you're either comparing drones of same damage type instead of all possible drones.
For instance, the sentry multiplier is only the same as the heavies multiplier for thermal drones, the rest of damage types differ in multiplier (kinetic sentry has lowest multiplier, for instance, but explosive has both a better multiplier AND range as the EM sentry... yup, Amarr sentries suck more as Amarr heavies).
As for T2, don't bother with all calculations, just look at T1 ones.
If you have EVE-Mon (you don't ? why ? WHY ?), you should see all relevant T1 drone stats listed properly aready.
All T2 drones have a flat +20% DPS bonus compared to T1 version (via damage multiplier).
All T2 heavies also get +8% (minimal required L4 spec skill) or +10% (L5 spec skill) extra DPS, alongside extra speed and tracking.
The T2 sentries get a +20% optimal/falloff range instead of getting a DPS increase, and also no tracking bonus.
_
Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
Sharupak
Minmatar
Knights Of the Black Sun
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:15:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Garret Marx
I never understood this. Everyone treats Raven as if it's the top of the line ratting ship but a dominix with t1 drones will out rat a raven with full missile skills.
Why rat in ugly when you can rat in a maelstrom!
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RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp
Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:34:00 -
[47]
Max skills quickfit DPS, rarely accurate but good for comparison.
Domi:
Ogre II 475
Wasp II 431
Berserker II 386
Praetor II 342
Raven:
Siege 619 plus 158 to 114 from medium drones
No contest. Plus the more isk you throw at the Raven the better it gets the Domi on the other hand is stuck with t2.
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Yali
Aggressive Tendencies
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:39:00 -
[48]
Alot of ships are good ratters, some are just alot easier to use. Raven is the one where you really dont have to think - everyone know's how to fit a raven, everyone can with little training successfully rat in the ship.
Personally i prefer my phoon; major point here is zerker II's who can be hard to get in 0.0 - and easy to lose. with 4x siege, 4x dual 425's, 5x berserkers and damage mods in low it pretty much eats any rat. On the other hand its alot easier to just use a raven.
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Kill them all - God will recongnize his own. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:48:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Max skills quickfit DPS, rarely accurate but good for comparison.
Domi:
Ogre II 475
Wasp II 431
Berserker II 386
Praetor II 342
Raven:
Siege 619 plus 158 to 114 from medium drones
No contest. Plus the more isk you throw at the Raven the better it gets the Domi on the other hand is stuck with t2.
Uh, you know, you can actually use rails on the Domi too (you even have a damage bonus for them), those highslots arent's there just for NOS
Even with Dual 250mm IIs (which are trivial to fit), you still get some decent DPS... namely 243 at max skills (with antimatter). Add that to, say, 450 DPS from Garde IIs, and you get 673 DPS, all of which is "instant hit" (but, granted, mostly thermal, and not such a great range).
_
Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp
Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:04:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 26/07/2007 22:05:01
Ratting is work enough already without worrying about moving to range etc.
By the time your at optimal, with your drones on the first rat the Raven has cleared a spawn and moved on.
DPS actually isn't the main reason I use the Raven though, it's ease, ratting is work enough already, I may as well get to watch a movie / browse the web while doing it.
[EDIT: Ok, an exaggeration, but you get the idea]
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:13:00 -
[51]
Can switch damage types 'for free'
Can hit at any range between 0 and 100 with torps.
Lots of players chose Caldari for backplot reasons, and have the skills in place already.
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Raeff
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.29 03:47:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Raeff on 29/07/2007 03:52:39
Edited by: Raeff on 29/07/2007 03:48:56
funny how noone has mentioned the typhoon
HI: 4x Siege II / 4x Dual 650mm II
MID: 100mn MWD II / Web / 2x Cap Recharge II
LOW: 1x LAR II / 2-3 hardeners / 2-3 damage mods / rest CPR II
Drones: 5x T2 Heavy Drones
gun/missile rig + CCC rig + pic an armor rig
I use it against Blood Raiders and burn thru them FAST .. i've tried raven / apoc / geddon / megat / domi / myrm aswell .. they can't match the damage output
i wouldnt use it for L4 missions, but for 0.0 belt ratting its perfect .. handles trip 1.8mil BS spawns with ease
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Bohoba
Caldari
Dragons United
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.07.29 04:14:00 -
[53]
no no no your all wrong
Rat in a Raven cause we like the explosions, nothing like firing off all 4 types and getting a cool colored explosion :)
Domi is a good ratter to if set up right.
The Dark Force is strong in EvE But it will fail
Get Into the Game it makes it fun for all |
Naylon
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Posted - 2007.07.29 07:04:00 -
[54]
I can pilot a Domi and Raven with roughly equivalent skills, Spec 4 in torps and t2 drones.
Drones do kill BS rats slower than torps, but I fit a mwd to my domi so travel time to and from spawns with drones is minimal, plus I can loot and salvage every single wreck, so I get improved income from that. I'd say that the Domi is the superior NPCer, Raven is the faster.
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.29 07:27:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Zkillz kun
Originally by: Trass
Originally by: Garret Marx
I never understood this. Everyone treats Raven as if it's the top of the line ratting ship but a dominix with t1 drones will out rat a raven with full missile skills.
I never understood people who rat in slow lazy battleships...
Why rat in a Raven or Dominix when you can rat in a Myrmidon?
why rat in a myrmidon when you can rat in a thorax
Why rat in a thorax when you can rat in an Ibis?
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Grismar.net |
NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys
Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.29 08:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: cal nereus
Originally by: Zkillz kun
Originally by: Trass
Originally by: Garret Marx
I never understood this. Everyone treats Raven as if it's the top of the line ratting ship but a dominix with t1 drones will out rat a raven with full missile skills.
I never understood people who rat in slow lazy battleships...
Why rat in a Raven or Dominix when you can rat in a Myrmidon?
why rat in a myrmidon when you can rat in a thorax
Why rat in a thorax when you can rat in an Ibis?
Why rat in a Ibis when you can rat in a Velator of 150+ dps goodness.
Post count: 720842
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David DarkLighter
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Posted - 2007.07.29 08:43:00 -
[57]
Him...........
I can think of alot of reasons that both are good......
1. Ummmm we get money in both...
2. Ummmm we get money in both.......
3. Ummmm we get money in both.........
4. Ummmm we get money in both...........
But I personally would like to rat in a raven =\
Drake is getting perty old =\
I need to get those mods onto my drake =\
and reason 5...
Cant we all just get along?
Get a CNR and a Navy/Federation/Vindacator Megathron and blow some ****nits up.
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