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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Marcus Starr Chosen Path FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 07:59:00 - [61] Khanid Mk. II may not help the laser loving fellers, but this 'ol Caldari is looking forward to cross training for these loverly Khanid ships.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:05:00 - [62] Edited by: Tamoko on 30/07/2007 08:05:21 Don't make any assumptions about the natural laser boats, yet :) Given the drastic changes to half the Amarr ships already, it's not outlandish to believe the beamboats will get some lovin' as well. That besides, huzzah for missile spamming, armor tanking, oohshiney black goodness. Khanid Mk-II: http://i13.tinypic.com/688zvjk.jpg http://i11.tinypic.com/5ycekb8.jpg
The Economist	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:09:00 - [63] Edited by: The Economist on 30/07/2007 08:12:55 Could be interesting but... 1)Please, no matter what else you do to the damnation, at least let it keep its 4 turret hardpoints...please. 2)Change the proposed bonuses so they aren't as limiting....by which I mean, for example, change the malediction dmg bonus to standard missiles and rockets rather than just rockets; likewise with the sac, damage bonus should be to heavy as well as heavy assault missiles. The bonuses force the ships to be used at specific ranges to make proper use of them; it's not like the geddon only gets a rof bonuses to pulses, or the abaddon a dmg bonus to beams... Also a mildly related afterthought on the heretic (not really referring to the proposed changes): Why when each race only gets one dictor and has one main weapon system that marks them out, is the heretic the only one that does not favour its racial prejudice? Even in cases of split weapon systems all the other dictors favour their primary, isn't it a tad unfair on amarr pilots to restrict them largely to what is, and has always been a marginalised weapon type for them on their only choice of dictor? I understand it's a khanid ship and so should broadly fit in with the khanid philosophy, but nonetheless it seems a fair point to make.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:14:00 - [64] Originally by: The Economist Could be interesting but... 1)Please, no matter what else you do to the damnation, at least let it keep its 4 turret hardpoints...please. 2)Change the proposed bonuses so they aren't as limiting....by which I mean, for example, change the malediction dmg bonus to standard missiles and rockets rather than just rockets; likewise with the sac, damage bonus should be to heavy as well as heavy assault missiles. Also a mildly related afterthought on the heretic (not really referring to the proposed changes): Why when each race only gets one dictor and has one main weapon system that marks them out, is the heretic the only one that does not favour its racial prejudice? Even in cases of split weapon systems all the other dictors favour their primary, isn't it a tad unfair on amarr pilots to restrict them largely to what is, and has always been a marginalised weapon type for them on their only choice of dictor? I understand it's a khanid ship and so should broadly fit in with the khanid philosophy, but nonetheless it seems a fair point to make. 1) I hate to ask, but why would you fit turrets on a damnation after the change? You'll just eat up cap for no good reason. The absolution is a fantastic beamboat. 2) I suspect that the reason for the Amarr ships being perplexingly short-ranged is so they don't completely obsolete caldari ships in pvp. That's fair. Caldari were missile ships first. 3) The dictor issue has been the only serious complaint I've picked up on in and out of game. I personally think the dictor role works best /w missiles, so this could only be a good thing. But for all the heretic pilots that like their lasers (including the one that ganked my crusader earlier ), I can appreciate why this might make them uncomfortable. Khanid Mk-II: http://i13.tinypic.com/688zvjk.jpg http://i11.tinypic.com/5ycekb8.jpg
Ather Ialeas Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:25:00 - [65] Seems like the market force has spoken already, some Jita stats: 51 units of Sacrilege was sold yesterday at median price of ~55,6M. Now there's 26 units available at nearly 100M. That's almost +80%. 29 units of Damnation was sold yesterday at median price of ~82,3M. Now there's 4 units available at exactly 140M. That's a bit over 70%. 107 units of Heretic was sold yesterday at median price of ~12,2M. Now there's numerous available at around 15,5M. That's about 27%. 180 units of Malediction was sold yesterday at median price of 4M. Now there's numerous available at 12M and up. That's 300%+. What made me really laugh is that Zealot is now cheaper than Sacrilege. [ insert fancy sig here ]
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:28:00 - [66] Originally by: Ather Ialeas What made me really laugh is that Zealot is now cheaper than Sacrilege. that's epic. Khanid Mk-II: http://i13.tinypic.com/688zvjk.jpg http://i11.tinypic.com/5ycekb8.jpg
The Economist	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:32:00 - [67] Edited by: The Economist on 30/07/2007 08:33:42 Originally by: Tamoko 1) I hate to ask, but why would you fit turrets on a damnation after the change? You'll just eat up cap for no good reason. The absolution is a fantastic beamboat. 2) I suspect that the reason for the Amarr ships being perplexingly short-ranged is so they don't completely obsolete caldari ships in pvp. That's fair. Caldari were missile ships first. - I have 49mil sp's in amarr, only 700k of which is in missiles (which i will train up now I guess), I use the damnation for gang mods and like to be able to shoot as well. The bonus change won't hurt it too much since the cap use reduction will be at least partially compensated for by the cap recharge bonus, so all it will lose is a little optimal from my point of view. Which I'm happy to live with for the option of being able to use missiles on it with a dmg bonus, I'd just like to keep the option of 4 turrets, there other split-weapon ships were one can use one or both types effectively, I just don't see why the damnation should be knee-capped down to 2 turret hardpoints. - Not really justification in my opinion. The bonuses gimp the ships into specific setups (if you want the bonus) in a way that no other ships are limited...namely that of weapon type within a class. No reason us amarr pilots should get the shaft while we're meant to be getting "boosted".
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:09:00 - [68] Fairly spoken, though I suspect that even with gimped missile skills, you'll still get comparable damage over time to the bonus-less lasers. Khanid Mk-II: http://i13.tinypic.com/688zvjk.jpg http://i11.tinypic.com/5ycekb8.jpg
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:11:00 - [69] This is old -> new stat comparison using current data from sisi: Malediction Layout change 2 missile + 3 turret -> 3 missile + 1 turret CPU 125tf -> 135tf Max. targeting range 22km -> 18km Targ. resolution 900mm -> 925mm Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to rocket damage and 5% bonus to armor resistances per level Sacrilege Layout change 3 missile + 4 turret -> 5 missile CPU 350tf -> 400tf Power 1100MW -> 1030MW Max. targeting range 60km -> 50km Targ. resolution 235mm -> 260mm Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile damage and (OLD BONUS 5% bonus to all armor resistances) per level Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time and 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level Anathema Layout change 1 missile + 2 turret -> 2 missile + 1 turret Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to rocket damage and 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time per level Vengeance LAyout change 1 missile + 3 turret -> 4 missile + 1 turret CPU 150tf -> 160tf Power 48MW -> 43MW Max. targeting range 45km -> 38km Targ. resolution 600mm -> 655mm Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to rocket damage, (OLD BONUSES 15% bonus to Shield and Armor Explosive resistance and 10% bonus to Shield and Armor Kinetic resistance) per level Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to armor resistances and ( OLD BONUS 5% bonus to cap recharge rate) per level Damnation Layout change 4 missile + 4 turret -> 5 missile + 2 turret Power 1510MW -> 1300MW Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile damage and (OLD BONUS 5% bonus to all armor resistances) per level Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time and (OLD BONUS 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links) per level
Annatar The Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:30:00 - [70] WTF? First hand Amarr a nice 25% bonus to Laserz and now removing all turrets from thier shiops turning them into Caldari Clones? What a nice idea to switch the underpowered Amarr into Caldari Missle Ships, nice balancing. Why races have diffrent weapons and setup anyways. /sarcasm off I honestly think CCP should stick to the basics and not mess around with stuff that worked (more or less) for more then 4 Years. Better spend the time on a rewok to Defender missels and thier effency on short range. Then you simply snipe off the cruise missels of Caldari ships with you Amarr vessel. -------------------------------------------- Never argue with an Idoit, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience.
Deva Blackfire Citadel of dark arts	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:35:00 - [71] Originally by: Annatar WTF? First hand Amarr a nice 25% bonus to Laserz and now removing all turrets from thier shiops turning them into Caldari Clones? What a nice idea to switch the underpowered Amarr into Caldari Missle Ships, nice balancing. Why races have diffrent weapons and setup anyways. /sarcasm off I honestly think CCP should stick to the basics and not mess around with stuff that worked (more or less) for more then 4 Years. Better spend the time on a rewok to Defender missels and thier effency on short range. Then you simply snipe off the cruise missels of Caldari ships with you Amarr vessel. Guess you didnt use sacrilege 2 years ago. Hint: it had missile bonus and was turned later on into useless zealot ripoff (thus going down from 100-120mil a piece to 55mil a piece).
volly Amarr SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:08:00 - [72] Tested the changes on Sissi and i am impressed. GOOD WORK CCP Finaly the Khanid Ships got a Role! And keep the limitation to the closerange missile systems. That differs them from the Caldary ones. Now both HACs fil a role. Take a Zealot for Sniping / Med Range Damagedealer or a Sacrilege for Solo / Closerange Fights. Due to the Cap bonus and no cap draining weapon systems these Sacri and Damnation can run a dual rep setup with all the tools you need for pvp (mwd, web, scram, injector) and crazy resists on top of it. /me love the new changes
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:20:00 - [73] I approve of these changes. Mmmmmm sacrilicious... Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:21:00 - [74] Edited by: Chronus26 on 30/07/2007 10:22:37 I don't like these changes. Turning a whole bunch of useful ships i've already trained for into missles ships that are no use to me at all. Especially the Damnation, going from a ship that can choose either Turrets or Missles with its 3 gang links to no choice at all. I can't exactly use an Absolution for fleet support in the same way as the Damnation... -----
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:59:00 - [75] love the changes:)
EvilPhog Amarr Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:25:00 - [76] Originally by: Chronus26 Edited by: Chronus26 on 30/07/2007 10:22:37 I don't like these changes. Turning a whole bunch of useful ships i've already trained for into missles ships that are no use to me at all. Especially the Damnation, going from a ship that can choose either Turrets or Missles with its 3 gang links to no choice at all. I can't exactly use an Absolution for fleet support in the same way as the Damnation... I'm sure that if you were able to find a decent use for the khanid ships as they are now, you will be perfectly capable of discovering new uses for them after the changes. :)
General Apocalypse Amarr The Merchant Marines	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:25:00 - [77] Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 11:25:31 This is a Sacrilege if this changes go to TQ i'll trow my Anathema on you all and be shure that I will have my Vengeance . In other words thank you GOD , CCP and Sarmaul this is something we have been fighting for a long time . Amarr finaly looks good althou nanoing a Sacrilege is . Maybe have him whit heavys as well same going 4 the Damnation Anyway this change is GOOD goon = A fool, or someone considered silly
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:31:00 - [78] Originally by: EvilPhog Originally by: Chronus26 Edited by: Chronus26 on 30/07/2007 10:22:37 I don't like these changes. Turning a whole bunch of useful ships i've already trained for into missles ships that are no use to me at all. Especially the Damnation, going from a ship that can choose either Turrets or Missles with its 3 gang links to no choice at all. I can't exactly use an Absolution for fleet support in the same way as the Damnation... I'm sure that if you were able to find a decent use for the khanid ships as they are now, you will be perfectly capable of discovering new uses for them after the changes. :) I'm not saying the changes are bad and all, just that now if I want to fly a Sacrelige for whatever, or a Damnation for Gang support I'll have to invest between 3 and 4 Mil SP in T2 missles and missle support skills to the same level as my gunnery skills. Boo Hoo to me I guess, I'll quit whining for now. -----
R3ign Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:43:00 - [79] Please stop whining on the sacrilege's bonus only applying to hams. Its way faster on sisi than on tq, if you continue ccp will apply the bonus to heavy missiles too and will leave it as slow as it is now on tq, turning it into a ghey mission runner ship :(
Parallax Error Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:57:00 - [80] On reflection, a bonus just to HAM's wouldn't be such a bad thing if the range of the T1 missiles were increased. I'm of the firm opinion that sub 15km is too short. Just a little eye opener for you all, here are the ratio's of max theoretical range for rocket to missile types. The percentage value is the percentage of max range the short range ammo has compared to the long range. Rocket - Light missile = 24% Heavy Assault - Heavy Missile = 18% Torpedo - Cruise Missile = 68% Just for a bit of comparison, the ratio of optimal + falloff for Heavy pulse 1's to Heavy Beam 1's is as follows. Heavy Pulse - Heavy Beam = 50% Now obviously this is going to vary if you look into hybrids and projectiles, but I thought that lasers would be reasonably appropriate for discussion on Khanid ships. Now, I'm not suggesting a flat ratio of 50% for every single missile size range but it does seem clear to me that for tech 1 ammunition HAM's and Rockets are a too short ranged and torpedo's are possibly too long ranged. I'd suggest that HAM's get a flight time increase from 3 seconds to 5 or 6 seconds and that rockets get a slight flight time increase. Not too bothered about Torpedo's as I don't think there are many issues surrounding them.
Tao Han Caldari Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2007.07.30 12:20:00 - [81] Originally by: Aluka 7th lots of stats Dont forget the added speed on these ships, now I'm at work so I cant check 100% but I think the Sacrilege went from 175m/s to 200m/s.
LeviUK hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:07:00 - [82] Loving the changes, I probably shouldn't mention dual-rep sacri with 5 ham launchers and mwd.. oh, I did
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:14:00 - [83] True, speed is changed for: Sacrilege 175m/s->205m/s Vengeance 230m/s->235m/s Don't know how I didn't notice that :)
Eardianm Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:20:00 - [84] Wait, you mean I won't have to shoe horn a HAM drake platform anymore? \o/ (or, at least, I'll have a couple ship options now) --------------
Rakane	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:30:00 - [85] Edited by: Rakane on 30/07/2007 13:32:57 Edited by: Rakane on 30/07/2007 13:32:33 If these Changes are really such a clear improvement, then why should it be necessary to forcefeed this "shortrange Missleboat"-Concept to the Players ? Why not make it optional instead by adding the new boni and the Possibility of more Launcher Hardpoints without removing the Turrets. Even the Laserboni could stay, for the one or two remaining Lasers after fitting all possible Launchers it wont add to much overall damage for the Ship. I guess those who like the new Concept whould skip the remaining Lasers anyway and fit Nos or something else in the remaining Highslots. While those who against all reason prefer Lasers and split weapon systems as well as those who just dont care about some best possible very specialised PvP- Setup could still fly around with their Khanid Ships using their uneffective old fittings.
Gozmoth Amarr Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:49:00 - [86] I love them, the new malediction is great.
Sniser 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:55:00 - [87] i love those changes. short range missile bonus its fine, if you want long range missiles train caldari
BillyBong2 Amarr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:09:00 - [88] I like the short range limitation as well, leave that as it is. I think the changes are in line with the Khanid and look great. They offer so many different possibilities now, I am getting giddy
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Return The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:14:00 - [89] Blog is out, also on Nos changes.
dalmety	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:20:00 - [90] did not read all posts so this has prob already been mentioned but will the new nos changes completely bugger up the pilgrim - its main advantage was the ability to completely drain another ships cap while running a tank its crap damage output was improved by the fact that the target ship[ had no cap to run rep mods will these new changer not ruin that as if u have to sacrifice ur own cap to drain theirs ur done for as they are paper thin

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