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General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
   |
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:19:00 -
[1]
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 16:24:11
Ok NOS crying babys you won you got the nos on under the nerfbat but this kind of nerf is not good at all pls for the love of [pink]Eris[pink] let US force CCP to use any other nerf but this one.
Staking nerf, nos slots , sig radius based , but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms and we coud have the pleasure to be scrambeled for hours by a ceptor we can't kill waiting for reinforcements that take at least 20 mins to mobilise
So join me SAY NO to the current NOS change
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=566322Say NO to the NOS change[ |
Kraken Sra'vik
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:20:00 -
[2]
I totally support this. Just trained for Pilgrim, looks like something to throw in the trash now.
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Dr Fighter
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:21:00 -
[3]
like to test this for a few weeks on the test server before i can really sign any 'dont do it' threads really.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:22:00 -
[4]
The Pilgrim and Curse will still be decent ships after the change, you'll just have to think a little bit harder about how to use them.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Asestorian
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:22:00 -
[5]
I disagree. Say YES to the NOS change 
---
---
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:25:00 -
[6]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 30/07/2007 16:26:20
Aye, I think a few people are throwing the towel in before they've worked out how exactly this will effect the Curse/Pilgrim.
It's going to make cap management more difficult (no more activating all your modules and waiting for the enemy to die). On the plus side this will alow the Curse/Pilgrim to effectively kill their opponent faster than with an all nos setup.
It's going to be about finding the right balance between nos and neuts and knowing how and when to use them.
I think the new changes are great because currently flying the Amarr recons is less complicated than flying missile boats. I would still like to see dampeners nerfed on ships without bonuses however.
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General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:26:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Asestorian
I disagree. Say YES to the NOS change
You'll still get onwned by the Domi sily same goes for pilgrim/curse only in their case it will take more to own you .
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=566322Say NO to the NOS change[ |
Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:28:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 30/07/2007 16:31:06
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Ok NOS crying babys you won
Yes, and apparently you are turning into a crybaby yourself :)
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Judas Lonestar
Ganja Labs
Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:28:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Judas Lonestar on 30/07/2007 16:28:27
CCC rigs, More neut, less NOS.
Whats the problem?
Oh right, you have to THINK. Damn, hate it when that happens.....
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Kraken Sra'vik
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:28:00 -
[10]
Just annoys me NOS will not suck the other guy below your own cap percentage...
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Vitrael
Warriors of the Einherjar
Fimbulwinter
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms and we coud have the pleasure to be scrambeled for hours by a ceptor we can't kill waiting for reinforcements that take at least 20 mins to mobilise
STOP WHINING AND FIT SOME NEUTS.
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Kraken Sra'vik
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Judas Lonestar
3 CCC rigs, More neut, less NOS.
Whats the problem?
Oh right, you have to THINK. Damn, hate it when that happens.....
And what, I wasn't fitting other rigs on the ship?
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AnKahn
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:29:00 -
[13]
Yes to NOS change. I haven't even read what it is.
What a stupid module to begin with.
Learn to fight with actual weapons.
And all you gankers/pirates. Oh yea, you make EvE fun to play. Right!
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Just annoys me NOS will not suck the other guy below your own cap percentage...
You steal what cap you can then activate your neuts. Your cap will fall below the targets again then you can continue nossing.
All this is going to do is make your target die faster and make your whole piloting routine quite a bit more complicated. Think about it, all this change really does is make neuts useful.
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Kraken Sra'vik
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: AnKahn
Yes to NOS change. I haven't even read what it is.
What a stupid module to begin with.
Learn to fight with actual weapons.
And all you gankers/pirates. Oh yea, you make EvE fun to play. Right!
What do you classify drones as, then?
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Kraken Sra'vik
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Just annoys me NOS will not suck the other guy below your own cap percentage...
You steal what cap you can then activate your neuts. Your cap will fall below the targets again then you can continue nossing.
All this is going to do is make your target die faster and make your whole piloting routine quite a bit more complicated. Think about it, all this change really does is make neuts useful.
Your idea makes sense, but why will this nerf make him die faster? I dont see that argument (I mean, pilgrim is fitting neut anyway).
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Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
Gallente Federal Bank
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: AnKahn
Yes to NOS change. I haven't even read what it is.
What a stupid module to begin with.
Learn to fight with actual weapons.
And all you gankers/pirates. Oh yea, you make EvE fun to play. Right!
WTB the powergrid to actually fit weapons.
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AnKahn
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:32:00 -
[18]
Oh, and this is an extension of the passive tank nerf.
Can I guess your position on that one???
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General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 30/07/2007 16:31:06
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Ok NOS crying babys you won
Yes, and apparently you are turning into a crybaby yourself :)
NB.
Oh the flame it burns . Not  
You stoped talking ever since Sarmaul got banned try to get a crusader killed on the Test Server try it at FFA 3 and see how the NOS nerf works and also TEST the Dominix and see that this nerf failed it's purpose
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=566322Say NO to the NOS change[ |
welsh wizard
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Originally by: welsh wizard
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Just annoys me NOS will not suck the other guy below your own cap percentage...
You steal what cap you can then activate your neuts. Your cap will fall below the targets again then you can continue nossing.
All this is going to do is make your target die faster and make your whole piloting routine quite a bit more complicated. Think about it, all this change really does is make neuts useful.
Your idea makes sense, but why will this nerf make him die faster? I dont see that argument (I mean, pilgrim is fitting neut anyway).
Well if you already fit neuts on your setup anyway then you won't kill them faster than you do currently but you will have to manage your cap more thoroughly. I'm not an Amarr recon pilot but I was under the impression that most just fit nos because neuts don't really offer much extra.
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Kraken Sra'vik
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: AnKahn
Oh, and this is an extension of the passive tank nerf.
Can I guess your position on that one???
That does kinda suck, but I see the positive for myself (Just like all the whiners about NOS).
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Kraken Sra'vik
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:37:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Kraken Sra''vik on 30/07/2007 16:37:27
Originally by: welsh wizard
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Originally by: welsh wizard
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Just annoys me NOS will not suck the other guy below your own cap percentage...
You steal what cap you can then activate your neuts. Your cap will fall below the targets again then you can continue nossing.
All this is going to do is make your target die faster and make your whole piloting routine quite a bit more complicated. Think about it, all this change really does is make neuts useful.
Your idea makes sense, but why will this nerf make him die faster? I dont see that argument (I mean, pilgrim is fitting neut anyway).
Well if you already fit neuts on your setup anyway then you won't kill them faster than you do currently but you will have to manage your cap more thoroughly. I'm not an Amarr recon pilot but I was under the impression that most just fit nos because neuts don't really offer much extra.
Well the idea of the Pilgrim's nos and neut is to drain the other guys cap completely so he has no cap to tank with. I can garuntee any plgrim pilot that knew wat he was doing fit a neut. Its drain is substantially more than a nos. However, they use substantially more cap.
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:38:00 -
[23]
YES to this change. Its very welcome. People just need to fit 1 neutere extra if you REAAly need to dry someone.
Only thing I didn't liked is that I was intended to go to empire sell by stock of 140 heavy diminish nos this weekend :P
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:39:00 -
[24]
The main problem is that this change fails it's target the NOS Dominix i'm not shure about the curse/pilgrim but the things that get buffed way to much are ceptors and captals 
Say NO to the NOS nerf |
Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:39:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 30/07/2007 16:42:49
Originally by: General Apocalypse
You stoped talking ever since Sarmaul got banned
Actually I stopped posting when I couldn't take it anymore, while Sarmaul got banned because he couldn't take it anymore either. :)
As for the change, it can't be worse than what is currently on TQ and in this respect I'm enjoying every nosferatu related thread of this forum while remembering the whole supertanker of smack raining upon the few, and later many, who tried to have the gameplay improved by tweaking the nosferatus. I also believe that we could have had a better solution if the nosferatus discussions weren't derailed into trollfests by people who are so upset today "for the wrong reasons" (i.e. disagreeing with any change at all).
I didn't want to smack you but simply point out that you can't have a convinving argument when you start by picturing people disagreeing with you as crybabies, while precisely you are writing a huge cry post. 'this all really ;o)
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:39:00 -
[26]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms and we coud have the pleasure to be scrambeled for hours by a ceptor we can't kill waiting for reinforcements that take at least 20 mins to mobilise
wth happened to T2 warriors?
they got smoked too?
---
truth about EVE: Quote:
"Guns are fine, boost players"
Quote:
"Players are fine, boost guns"
|
AnKahn
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:40:00 -
[27]
Drones DPS reminds me of missile's DPS. Yea, weapons, but a little meh. Understand why peeps upset about losing their nos. Apparently you will have to learn how to use neuts now, so you will still be able to use your same "plays".
And I really hope you guys can fit guns where you now have nos, thru training skills, maybe.
Otherwise I will support a boost call for powergrids, but for everyone, not just the NOS***** withdrawlers.
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Kraken Sra'vik
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:40:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: General Apocalypse
but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms and we coud have the pleasure to be scrambeled for hours by a ceptor we can't kill waiting for reinforcements that take at least 20 mins to mobilise
wth happened to T2 warriors?
they got smoked too?
lol if you put warriors on hes just gonna run out of drone control range. Then you cannot even dream of getting him. Cap kills mwd.
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:41:00 -
[29]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 30/07/2007 16:42:18
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Edited by: Kraken Sra''vik on 30/07/2007 16:37:27
Originally by: welsh wizard
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Originally by: welsh wizard
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Just annoys me NOS will not suck the other guy below your own cap percentage...
You steal what cap you can then activate your neuts. Your cap will fall below the targets again then you can continue nossing.
All this is going to do is make your target die faster and make your whole piloting routine quite a bit more complicated. Think about it, all this change really does is make neuts useful.
Your idea makes sense, but why will this nerf make him die faster? I dont see that argument (I mean, pilgrim is fitting neut anyway).
Well if you already fit neuts on your setup anyway then you won't kill them faster than you do currently but you will have to manage your cap more thoroughly. I'm not an Amarr recon pilot but I was under the impression that most just fit nos because neuts don't really offer much extra.
Well the idea of the Pilgrim's nos and neut is to drain the other guys cap completely so he has no cap to tank with. I can garuntee any plgrim pilot that knew wat he was doing fit a neut. Its drain is substantially more than a nos. However, they use substantially more cap.
I'm aware of the mechanics of nosferatu and neutralisers.
Basically we've just gotta wait and try it out. With practice I reckon the Curse/Pilgrim will be just as effective as they've always been. Slightly more vulnerable against multiple ships perhaps but still practically unbeatable in a 1v1 unless you bump into an fof spewing passive shield tank..
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Marine Commander
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
YES to this change. Its very welcome. People just need to fit 1 neutere extra if you REAAly need to dry someone.
And whre do you fit the goddam guns ?
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:43:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: General Apocalypse
but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms and we coud have the pleasure to be scrambeled for hours by a ceptor we can't kill waiting for reinforcements that take at least 20 mins to mobilise
wth happened to T2 warriors?
they got smoked too?
lol if you put warriors on hes just gonna run out of drone control range. Then you cannot even dream of getting him. Cap kills mwd.
he ran out of drone control range yeah...
....and unless that interceptor packs an officer warp jammer that uses 1k (or was it 2k?) grid, then you can get away.
---
truth about EVE: Quote:
"Guns are fine, boost players"
Quote:
"Players are fine, boost guns"
|
General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:43:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: General Apocalypse
but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms and we coud have the pleasure to be scrambeled for hours by a ceptor we can't kill waiting for reinforcements that take at least 20 mins to mobilise
wth happened to T2 warriors?
they got smoked too?
Unfortunatly they can only prey on slower ceptors top of the line crows and crusaders will only wave at them .
Go try it and don't fit any drone related upgrades
Say NO to the NOS nerf |
Kraken Sra'vik
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:44:00 -
[33]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Edited by: welsh wizard on 30/07/2007 16:42:18
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Edited by: Kraken Sra''vik on 30/07/2007 16:37:27
Originally by: welsh wizard
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Originally by: welsh wizard
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Just annoys me NOS will not suck the other guy below your own cap percentage...
You steal what cap you can then activate your neuts. Your cap will fall below the targets again then you can continue nossing.
All this is going to do is make your target die faster and make your whole piloting routine quite a bit more complicated. Think about it, all this change really does is make neuts useful.
Your idea makes sense, but why will this nerf make him die faster? I dont see that argument (I mean, pilgrim is fitting neut anyway).
Well if you already fit neuts on your setup anyway then you won't kill them faster than you do currently but you will have to manage your cap more thoroughly. I'm not an Amarr recon pilot but I was under the impression that most just fit nos because neuts don't really offer much extra.
Well the idea of the Pilgrim's nos and neut is to drain the other guys cap completely so he has no cap to tank with. I can garuntee any plgrim pilot that knew wat he was doing fit a neut. Its drain is substantially more than a nos. However, they use substantially more cap.
I'm aware of the mechanics of nosferatu and neutralisers.
Basically we've just gotta wait and try it out. With practice I reckon the Curse/Pilgrim will be just as effective as they've always been. Slightly more vulnerable against multiple ships perhaps but still practically unbeatable in a 1v1 unless you bump into an fof spewing passive shield tank..
Props on the lack of flames, and I guess we will see. Just hope they tweak the curse/pilgrim bonus to nos's atleast slightly. Those neuts running full time (i know, they wouldnt) would drain me in about 50 seconds. Thats assuming the other guy doesn't have a nos on me. Oh well, go eve. 
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:44:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Grimpak on 30/07/2007 16:46:14
Edited by: Grimpak on 30/07/2007 16:44:51
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: General Apocalypse
but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms and we coud have the pleasure to be scrambeled for hours by a ceptor we can't kill waiting for reinforcements that take at least 20 mins to mobilise
wth happened to T2 warriors?
they got smoked too?
Unfortunatly they can only prey on slower ceptors top of the line crows and crusaders will only wave at them .
Go try it and don't fit any drone related upgrades
that I have to agree, afterall all you need is to be faster than 6km/sec (with lvl4 skill) to run from T2 warriors 
edit: precision lights can hit up till 7km/sec tho, and with a few tweaks even faster.
---
truth about EVE: Quote:
"Guns are fine, boost players"
Quote:
"Players are fine, boost guns"
|
Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:45:00 -
[35]
Some baseless assumptions here
-most people use a nos to get a little boost or because they don't like missiles or whatever
-A few people rampantly abuse nos, filling their high slots even when they have bonused hardpoints left.
-This latter group, rather than the former, are the people whining about the change with little information about its effect on specialized ships and without trying it out.
Baseless conclusion
==> Nerf Nos MOAR
_____
CPU Love |
Kraken Sra'vik
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:46:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Kraken Sra''vik on 30/07/2007 16:46:05
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: General Apocalypse
but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms and we coud have the pleasure to be scrambeled for hours by a ceptor we can't kill waiting for reinforcements that take at least 20 mins to mobilise
wth happened to T2 warriors?
they got smoked too?
lol if you put warriors on hes just gonna run out of drone control range. Then you cannot even dream of getting him. Cap kills mwd.
he ran out of drone control range yeah...
....and unless that interceptor packs an officer warp jammer that uses 1k (or was it 2k?) grid, then you can get away.
Show me a BS warp in the time it takes for a ceptor to run out of range (~45 kms) and back to 20kms. Riiight.
|
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:47:00 -
[37]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Edited by: welsh wizard on 30/07/2007 16:26:20
Aye, I think a few people are throwing the towel in before they've worked out how exactly this will effect the Curse/Pilgrim.
It's going to make cap management more difficult (no more activating all your modules and waiting for the enemy to die). On the plus side this will alow the Curse/Pilgrim to effectively kill their opponent faster than with an all nos setup.
It's going to be about finding the right balance between nos and neuts and knowing how and when to use them.
I think the new changes are great because currently flying the Amarr recons is less complicated than flying missile boats. I would still like to see dampeners nerfed on ships without bonuses however.
QFT. What I'm thinking:
1) Nos possibly no longer on auto-repeat
2) Switch out a few nos for neuts
3) Orbit with everything on except the nos. When your cap reaches really low levels, activate the nos, and activate the neut intermitently to ensure your cap stays relatively low. If the enemy tries to rep, he will be putting the nails in his cap's coffin.
Not I-Win anymore, but nothing should be I-Win.
Still, had I known of this in advance, I probably would not have trained for the Curse, as Amarr laser points might actually be useable for solo again.
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Kraken Sra'vik
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:47:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Santa Anna
Some baseless assumptions here
-most people use a nos to get a little boost or because they don't like missiles or whatever
-A few people rampantly abuse nos, filling their high slots even when they have bonused hardpoints left.
-This latter group, rather than the former, are the people whining about the change with little information about its effect on specialized ships and without trying it out.
Baseless conclusion
==> Nerf Nos MOAR
If a module gets nerfed, and the "specialized" ship is left completely alone, there will be no difference between the specialized ship, and the normal ship. Other than that the specialized ship will be nerfed less.
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:48:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Edited by: Kraken Sra''vik on 30/07/2007 16:46:05
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: General Apocalypse
but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms and we coud have the pleasure to be scrambeled for hours by a ceptor we can't kill waiting for reinforcements that take at least 20 mins to mobilise
wth happened to T2 warriors?
they got smoked too?
lol if you put warriors on hes just gonna run out of drone control range. Then you cannot even dream of getting him. Cap kills mwd.
he ran out of drone control range yeah...
....and unless that interceptor packs an officer warp jammer that uses 1k (or was it 2k?) grid, then you can get away.
Show me a BS warp in the time it takes for a ceptor to run out of range (~45 kms) and back to 20kms. Riiight.
if the interceptor is out of range why not using the "return and orbit" command?
oh and it's 59km with skills.
---
truth about EVE: Quote:
"Guns are fine, boost players"
Quote:
"Players are fine, boost guns"
|
Lithel
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:49:00 -
[40]
Pilgrim, curse bhaalgorn = Now useless garbage.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
|
Lt Angus
Caldari
the united
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:49:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Lt Angus on 30/07/2007 16:49:14
Funny one of the ships least affected by this is nos domi, the nerf only hurts ships with 1 or 2 nos
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:51:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Originally by: Santa Anna
Some baseless assumptions here
-most people use a nos to get a little boost or because they don't like missiles or whatever
-A few people rampantly abuse nos, filling their high slots even when they have bonused hardpoints left.
-This latter group, rather than the former, are the people whining about the change with little information about its effect on specialized ships and without trying it out.
Baseless conclusion
==> Nerf Nos MOAR
If a module gets nerfed, and the "specialized" ship is left completely alone, there will be no difference between the specialized ship, and the normal ship. Other than that the specialized ship will be nerfed less.
I'm not sure there's reason to believe that CCP won't tinker with pilgrim/curse, seeing as how their bonuses just went from the best in the game to something less than the best in the game.
_____
CPU Love |
General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:51:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: welsh wizard
Edited by: welsh wizard on 30/07/2007 16:26:20
Aye, I think a few people are throwing the towel in before they've worked out how exactly this will effect the Curse/Pilgrim.
It's going to make cap management more difficult (no more activating all your modules and waiting for the enemy to die). On the plus side this will alow the Curse/Pilgrim to effectively kill their opponent faster than with an all nos setup.
It's going to be about finding the right balance between nos and neuts and knowing how and when to use them.
I think the new changes are great because currently flying the Amarr recons is less complicated than flying missile boats. I would still like to see dampeners nerfed on ships without bonuses however.
QFT. What I'm thinking:
1) Nos possibly no longer on auto-repeat
2) Switch out a few nos for neuts
3) Orbit with everything on except the nos. When your cap reaches really low levels, activate the nos, and activate the neut intermitently to ensure your cap stays relatively low. If the enemy tries to rep, he will be putting the nails in his cap's coffin.
Not I-Win anymore, but nothing should be I-Win.
Still, had I known of this in advance, I probably would not have trained for the Curse, as Amarr laser points might actually be useable for solo again.
Welcome to I-Win Interceptor/Vagabond Online
Say NO to the NOS nerf |
welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:52:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: welsh wizard
Edited by: welsh wizard on 30/07/2007 16:26:20
Aye, I think a few people are throwing the towel in before they've worked out how exactly this will effect the Curse/Pilgrim.
It's going to make cap management more difficult (no more activating all your modules and waiting for the enemy to die). On the plus side this will alow the Curse/Pilgrim to effectively kill their opponent faster than with an all nos setup.
It's going to be about finding the right balance between nos and neuts and knowing how and when to use them.
I think the new changes are great because currently flying the Amarr recons is less complicated than flying missile boats. I would still like to see dampeners nerfed on ships without bonuses however.
QFT. What I'm thinking:
1) Nos possibly no longer on auto-repeat
2) Switch out a few nos for neuts
3) Orbit with everything on except the nos. When your cap reaches really low levels, activate the nos, and activate the neut intermitently to ensure your cap stays relatively low. If the enemy tries to rep, he will be putting the nails in his cap's coffin.
Not I-Win anymore, but nothing should be I-Win.
Still, had I known of this in advance, I probably would not have trained for the Curse, as Amarr laser points might actually be useable for solo again.
Exactly, use of nos and neuts is going to become a tactical affair. Not using auto-repeat will probably become a requirement for proper use.
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Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:53:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Lt Angus
Edited by: Lt Angus on 30/07/2007 16:49:14
Funny one of the ships least affected by this is nos domi, the nerf only hurts ships with 1 or 2 nos
You may want to reread the devblog. You only drain energy when you have less than your opponent.
The "nerf" boosts ships with 1-2 nos and cap-hungry weapons a great deal.
_____
CPU Love |
Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:55:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Lt Angus
Edited by: Lt Angus on 30/07/2007 16:49:14
Funny one of the ships least affected by this is nos domi, the nerf only hurts ships with 1 or 2 nos
Incorrect. this nerf hurts the specialized ships the most and ships with a nos thrown on cause you got 1 extra highslot really aren't affected.
-----------------------------------
btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai |
Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:56:00 -
[47]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Welcome to I-Win Interceptor/Vagabond Online
You could use a Huginn, or a destroyer, or an AF.
You might have to change the composition of your gangs to deal with the fact that nos is no longer an automatic win module in small-scale/solo pvp.
_____
CPU Love |
slothe
Caldari
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:57:00 -
[48]
can someone actually post / link the proposed changes please , so we can all join in the discussion, thanks.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 16:58:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Lithel
Pilgrim, curse bhaalgorn = Now useless garbage.
why people cannot understand that "not nber" does nto equal to "garbage"? They won be solo wtf machines, but several times CCP said that the idea of game didn't involved solo WTF machines...
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:59:00 -
[50]
Originally by: slothe
can someone actually post / link the proposed changes please , so we can all join in the discussion, thanks.
It's in the new Dev Blog
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General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:00:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Lithel
Pilgrim, curse bhaalgorn = Now useless garbage.
why people cannot understand that "not nber" does nto equal to "garbage"? They won be solo wtf machines, but several times CCP said that the idea of game didn't involved solo WTF machines...
Vagabond / Interceptors gangs (if the NOS change gets trough)
Say NO to the NOS nerf |
welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:00:00 -
[52]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 30/07/2007 17:03:55
Originally by: slothe
can someone actually post / link the proposed changes please , so we can all join in the discussion, thanks.
:P
edit: NPC'ers use nos for evasion, now they'll either fit a cloak or a neut, I know where my bets are placed. :/
Nerf non-covert cloaks and bring neut grid use inline with current nosferatu levels! :P
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Lasselanta
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:01:00 -
[53]
NO to the NOS nerf!
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Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Lithel
Pilgrim, curse bhaalgorn = Now useless garbage.
why people cannot understand that "not nber" does nto equal to "garbage"? They won be solo wtf machines, but several times CCP said that the idea of game didn't involved solo WTF machines...
They're hardly solopwnmachines to begin with, they all have ass for dps which a shield tank can almost passively tank anyway. Curse is only overpowered cause, like nos, Damps are overpowered on ships they are not suppose to fit on.
Fly the ships before you say they are uber or such.
-----------------------------------
btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai |
General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Welcome to I-Win Interceptor/Vagabond Online
You could use a Huginn, or a destroyer, or an AF.
You might have to change the composition of your gangs to deal with the fact that nos is no longer an automatic win module in small-scale/solo pvp.
Hugin yes , all the other do some kills yoursef then post
Say NO to the NOS nerf |
Verone
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:01:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kraken Sra'vik
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: General Apocalypse
but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms and we coud have the pleasure to be scrambeled for hours by a ceptor we can't kill waiting for reinforcements that take at least 20 mins to mobilise
wth happened to T2 warriors?
they got smoked too?
lol if you put warriors on hes just gonna run out of drone control range. Then you cannot even dream of getting him. Cap kills mwd.
Then he'll also be out of tackling range, problem solved.
>>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:03:00 -
[57]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Lithel
Pilgrim, curse bhaalgorn = Now useless garbage.
why people cannot understand that "not nber" does nto equal to "garbage"? They won be solo wtf machines, but several times CCP said that the idea of game didn't involved solo WTF machines...
Vagabond / Interceptors gangs (if the NOS change gets trough)
how does a GANG of vagabons or inties qualify as SOLO ship? or you don know the meaning of solo?
For god sake, if you fear inties so much fit a single Large neut. Stop crying, the change will be minimal to all but ships that go all NOS to break enemy tank.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
SkinnyBish
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:07:00 -
[58]
Players - 0
Forum Whiners - the whole damn game
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Great Artista
Caldari
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:09:00 -
[59]
Well apparently I cant say YES to nos change, so I'll say NO then. 
_______
GA out. |
RoCkEt X
Caldari
The Order of Chivalry
Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:11:00 -
[60]
Edited by: RoCkEt X on 30/07/2007 17:13:09
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 16:39:03
Staking nerf, nos slots , sig radius based , but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms
ROFLMAO. i am a capital pilot in its true sense. carrier and dread pilots, like myself, will like the change for this purpose. however when bored i do spend time roaming around lowsec in a NOS myrm, so... save my capitals, or change my myrm fitting. blaster myrm 4tw!!!!!!!!!111
If u wanna take down a carrier. BE A MAN break its tank, exhaust its cap without NOS. grow some nutz.
Carrier 4tw! MUAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHA....
ok but myrm is now crying in hanger. i am of 2 minds. tbh, it makes my raven more uber, so i suppose i agree with the nos nerf as i am not gallente specc'ed so i dont care about myrm too much.
Cry away people. Chances are CCP will make the change reguardless.
The more cap u got... the bigger 1% is, the more cap u got, the better,
CCC I rigs will now cry, the cap extender thingys are now teh pwn. Dont stick in the past, modify and change yourself to fit eve. Serves u right for putting all ur eggs in one basket (training ur skills so that you need nos to function at full capacity)
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Shin Mao
Caldari
AFC
Ultima Rati0
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:14:00 -
[61]
This nerf kiled my dream be honorable & proud pilot of curse and piligrim  good job CCP, thank you...
X-ray nuclear pumped laser:
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:15:00 -
[62]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 16:39:03
Staking nerf, nos slots , sig radius based , but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms
ROFLMAO. i am a capital pilot in its true sense. carrier and dread pilots, like myself, will like the change for this purpose. however when bored i do spend time roaming around lowsec in a NOS myrm, so... save my capitals, or change my myrm fitting. blaster myrm 4tw!!!!!!!!!111
If u wanna take down a carrier. BE A MAN break its tank, exhaust its cap without NOS. grow some nutz.
Carrier 4tw! MUAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHA....
ok but myrm is now crying in hanger. i am of 2 minds. tbh, it makes my raven more uber, so i suppose i agree with the nos nerf as i am not gallente specc'ed so i dont care about myrm too much.
Cry away people. Chances are CCP will go through with this even if u lot sleep with thier board of directors.
The more cap u got... the bigger 1% is, the more cap u got, the better,
CCC I rigs will now cry, the cap extender thingys are now teh pwn. Dont stick in the past, modify and change yourself to fit eve. Serves u right for putting all ur eggs in one basket (training ur skills so that you need nos to function at full capacity)
Sucking a carrier wont change much. A BS with 4 NOS and 2 neuter will keep its cap pretty low most of time. Low enough to be under the 30% magical level. Dropping the carrier cap under that is enough to guarantee it won't raise up again, so broken tank. Or someoen really think any BS have a problem to bring DOWN its cap so it can suck you?
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Lt Angus
Caldari
the united
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:21:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: Lt Angus
Edited by: Lt Angus on 30/07/2007 16:49:14
Funny one of the ships least affected by this is nos domi, the nerf only hurts ships with 1 or 2 nos
You may want to reread the devblog. You only drain energy when you have less than your opponent.
The "nerf" boosts ships with 1-2 nos and cap-hungry weapons a great deal.
Lets just say there will be nerf neut threads in the coming months
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Kadesh Priestess
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:23:00 -
[64]
Personally, i like this change.
But i'd ask to add neutralizer bonuses comparable to ones for nosf on curse/piligrim. Or just change nosf bonuses to neutralizer... cuz they really should suck in general after this change.
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Vitrael
Warriors of the Einherjar
Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:24:00 -
[65]
Oh no! Now that we don't have solOMG nos ships we can't possibly kill interceptors or vagabonds because it is IMPOSSIBLE that we would fit neuts!
1 heavy neut cycle = dead inty cap, BOOOOOST!
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:27:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Lt Angus
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: Lt Angus
Edited by: Lt Angus on 30/07/2007 16:49:14
Funny one of the ships least affected by this is nos domi, the nerf only hurts ships with 1 or 2 nos
You may want to reread the devblog. You only drain energy when you have less than your opponent.
The "nerf" boosts ships with 1-2 nos and cap-hungry weapons a great deal.
Lets just say there will be nerf neut threads in the coming months
Nah, neuts on their own will still be exactly the same, its the combination of neuts and nos and their tactical use that will either be deemed OP or not OP in the next few months.
Also there are a few concerned about overpowered tacklers now, 1 heavy neut on your BS and 2 medium neuts on your recon will sort them out. Basically you're going to need capacitor to escape the tackler now. Much better imo.
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Streetrip
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:28:00 -
[67]
omfg this nerf (yes nerf) couldn't have come soon enough! I mean c'mon how can anyone argue that this is a bad move at all?
On one hand you have a module that has no effective downside AT ALL. Fits easier than most weapon systems and not only incapacitate's your target from doing ANYTHING besides warp a short distance or move a small distance (which if your PvPing you should have propulsion jamming to deal with those) but on top of absolutely turning a ship into just a thick armored mini-can, it ADDS to your own cap reinforcing your ships abilities.
The only cost is that you used a hi-slot. ohnoes u had to trade a dmg module to turn a ship inert. I mean c'mon the damn modules dont even have chance to hit, it ALWAYS hits and in the heavy case, can outrange propulsion jammers so ensures security as well.
NOS as it is, a single heavy nos will drop the effectiveness of most cruisers/frigs and 2 NOS will hammer in most T2 items and BCs. Stacking nerf wont work
nos slots? Value per slot is still too high. 1 or 2 is all thats needed so the only other alternative is to make alot of ships have no nos slots which would kind of be disastourous in terms of letting people fit different setups of hi's besides all out guns/missiles. Sig radius based sounds like a decent idea. But then due to it being constant hit it's just a matter of time or more nos. If you incorporated all the nerfs you suggested then that might be quite good...but then i dont think you'd be happy still. 1 nos which is dependant on sig radius...may as well take the percentage nerf.
If i had my way nos should be dependant on ammo and have a chance to hit similar to turrets and be sig rad dependant. kinda like a nos ball. But that's too far i reckon.
If you really wanna drop carriers/moms, then neutralizers work just fine as a dedicated weapon...afterall you wouldn't want to be able to do everything at once like hit cap AND cause damage now do you? That'd just be too "I-win" wouldn't it? kinda like how it is now.
Curse and pilgrim now has a catch to being flown? Well that should now add to the rest of the recons. A bit more brains to fly seems about right. Gallente recons must stay out of the targets lock range and hope they dont have sensor boosters. Caldari recons have a fundamental "to hit" chance anyways.
Minmatar recons are still susceptible to being hit no matter what anyways.
Curse and pilgrim now needs...a shuffle in refit and timing? maybe requiring some additional situational awareness is a bit too much to ask from pilots that just wanna engage modules and be done with it.
also if you dont wanna be scrambled for hours by a ceptor you cant kill while its waiting for reinforcements that takes at least 20 mins to mobilise...can always self destruct.
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SkinnyBish
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:29:00 -
[68]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Edited by: RoCkEt X on 30/07/2007 17:13:09
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 16:39:03
Staking nerf, nos slots , sig radius based , but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms
ROFLMAO. i am a capital pilot in its true sense. carrier and dread pilots, like myself, will like the change for this purpose. however when bored i do spend time roaming around lowsec in a NOS myrm, so... save my capitals, or change my myrm fitting. blaster myrm 4tw!!!!!!!!!111
If u wanna take down a carrier. BE A MAN break its tank, exhaust its cap without NOS. grow some nutz.
Carrier 4tw! MUAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHA....
ok but myrm is now crying in hanger. i am of 2 minds. tbh, it makes my raven more uber, so i suppose i agree with the nos nerf as i am not gallente specc'ed so i dont care about myrm too much.
Cry away people. Chances are CCP will make the change reguardless.
The more cap u got... the bigger 1% is, the more cap u got, the better,
CCC I rigs will now cry, the cap extender thingys are now teh pwn. Dont stick in the past, modify and change yourself to fit eve. Serves u right for putting all ur eggs in one basket (training ur skills so that you need nos to function at full capacity)
ROFLMAO on sucker !
Now is the time to start whining about your capital ships being overpowered and needing another big swat with the nerf bat. The door swings both ways
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General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:31:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Lithel
Pilgrim, curse bhaalgorn = Now useless garbage.
why people cannot understand that "not nber" does nto equal to "garbage"? They won be solo wtf machines, but several times CCP said that the idea of game didn't involved solo WTF machines...
Vagabond / Interceptors gangs (if the NOS change gets trough)
how does a GANG of vagabons or inties qualify as SOLO ship? or you don know the meaning of solo?
For god sake, if you fear inties so much fit a single Large neut. Stop crying, the change will be minimal to all but ships that go all NOS to break enemy tank.
Do you even have a brain or you lost it ? Vaga is a solopwnmobile stupid same goes for mach
Say NO to the NOS nerf |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:33:00 -
[70]
Originally by: SkinnyBish
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Edited by: RoCkEt X on 30/07/2007 17:13:09
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 16:39:03
Staking nerf, nos slots , sig radius based , but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms
ROFLMAO. i am a capital pilot in its true sense. carrier and dread pilots, like myself, will like the change for this purpose. however when bored i do spend time roaming around lowsec in a NOS myrm, so... save my capitals, or change my myrm fitting. blaster myrm 4tw!!!!!!!!!111
If u wanna take down a carrier. BE A MAN break its tank, exhaust its cap without NOS. grow some nutz.
Carrier 4tw! MUAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHA....
ok but myrm is now crying in hanger. i am of 2 minds. tbh, it makes my raven more uber, so i suppose i agree with the nos nerf as i am not gallente specc'ed so i dont care about myrm too much.
Cry away people. Chances are CCP will make the change reguardless.
The more cap u got... the bigger 1% is, the more cap u got, the better,
CCC I rigs will now cry, the cap extender thingys are now teh pwn. Dont stick in the past, modify and change yourself to fit eve. Serves u right for putting all ur eggs in one basket (training ur skills so that you need nos to function at full capacity)
ROFLMAO on sucker !
Now is the time to start whining about your capital ships being overpowered and needing another big swat with the nerf bat. The door swings both ways
as i already stated in other thread, veryminimal change on sucking capitals. just keep your MWD on and you will suck them to the very end.Just carry 1 neuterer each BS to finish the job.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Akel jomar
Gallente
Creative Destruction
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:39:00 -
[71]
OR....
you can just revert to the days when Nos didn't work anyhoo.
Nos is a crutch, if you rely on it too much in this (often) changing game, you open yourself to the repercussions.
--------
Originally by: Eris Discordia
: I pwn all.
Eris Discordia wtfpwns this thread using fastlockbeamz0r and wrecks for omgwtflock!! damage
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General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:43:00 -
[72]
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 17:43:28
For ppl that don't get it why this NOS change is very bad pls read this
Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs.
So what will hapend whit ships that can't keep up  Deimos, Myrm , Drake , Megatron , Abaddon , Zealot , Munnin Die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof
Say NO to the NOS nerf |
Kadesh Priestess
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:44:00 -
[73]
I enjoy playing games with 'dynamic' balance :P
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Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:46:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 30/07/2007 17:48:01
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs. [...] ... die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof.
And why does this problem have to be adressed by tweaking nosferatus? When you have a hammer in the head, every problem looks like a nail...
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Vitrael
Warriors of the Einherjar
Fimbulwinter
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:47:00 -
[75]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 17:43:28
For ppl that don't get it why this NOS change is very bad pls read this
Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs.
So what will hapend whit ships that can't keep up Deimos, Myrm , Drake , Megatron , Abaddon , Zealot , Munnin Die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof
First of all, making your post bold and colorful only makes it annoying. A more effective way of making it stand out would be to spell properly.
Secondly, a single heavy neut will instantly empty an interceptor's capacitor, and I'm sure it will put a big fat dent in a Vagabond's. The goal of nos was not to make large ships dry up small ones- it was for small ones to have cap while fighting larger ones.
Myrm, Drake, Mega, Muninn... whatever... fit a neut to make an interceptor grind to a stop. That is not what Nos is for. Now you can use your Nos to balance out the cap after you waste yours on neut. Problem solved.
Or you could just fit precision missiles.
STOP WHINING AND ADAPT.
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:47:00 -
[76]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 30/07/2007 17:47:45
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 17:43:28
For ppl that don't get it why this NOS change is very bad pls read this
Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs.
So what will hapend whit ships that can't keep up Deimos, Myrm , Drake , Megatron , Abaddon , Zealot , Munnin Die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof
Dude, please just take a step back and think about it for a second. A neutraliser will sort out those tacklers and then some. You're just gonna need enough cap for a neut cycle or two. That's really the only thing thats changed, the fact that you will now need cap to evade a tackler.
Some setups might need altering slightly to accomodate the neuts greater PG requirement but for evading tacklers 1 neut should be enough anyway! You really need to look at this objectively and then wait and see how it pans out.
It isn't that bad on paper.
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Kadesh Priestess
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:47:00 -
[77]
Lol, man. I want to see interceptor packs. Why do you think they're so evil?
I hate when gang consists of BS/cap hordes...
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Tao Han
Caldari
Synthetic Frontiers
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:48:00 -
[78]
General Apocalypse, are you the same guy (I cant remember his name) that just kept complaining over and over again about how invincible ceptors are and that his Raven should insta pop it (I believe it was a around the missile rebalance).
Because you whine as much as he did, type in exactly the same way.
God, he was annoying...
|
Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:51:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Tao Han
God, he was annoying...
It was detaurus and damn, he was hilarious. Now, if only Lorth and him could ever argue again, this would be epic ^.^:;
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 17:58:00 -
[80]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 17:43:28
For ppl that don't get it why this NOS change is very bad pls read this
Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs.
So what will hapend whit ships that can't keep up Deimos, Myrm , Drake , Megatron , Abaddon , Zealot , Munnin Die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof
lol you descredited yourself... putting munin as a ship that fear inties. It will pop several inties far before they reach the munin.
And i don see why a quite superior squad of inties should not be a very powerfull force.
Overload web and you have range to keep 8/10 inties out of their weapons range. If they are too many.. so bad, bring friends.
Or use the new marvelous khanid dictor to pulverize the inties.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Feirik
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 18:00:00 -
[81]
I think this change is great, tho its seems harsh in the start, I really think it will favour smaller ships more. Not just vagabonds online, but maybe people try to undock their deimoses, closerange muninns, new amarr missilestuff and go pvp with them now as everything wont need a cap booster.
Now also battleships not fitting nos will get a buff, as you can actually tank without having to counternos all the time, it will also be interesting with full passive tanks and remote reps for a little larger gangs.
If you want to burn your enemys cap now, you gotta fit neuts + cap boosters... if youre so afraid of not breaking those capital tanks, fit out 5 BS for full neut and cap boosting... 24k cap neuted every 12 sec.
The age of brute force has come, not the age of cap warfare.
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PathetiQ
Gallente
The Rat Pack
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:01:00 -
[82]
/signed no NOS NERF!
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Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:05:00 -
[83]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Welcome to I-Win Interceptor/Vagabond Online
You could use a Huginn, or a destroyer, or an AF.
You might have to change the composition of your gangs to deal with the fact that nos is no longer an automatic win module in small-scale/solo pvp.
Hugin yes , all the other do some kills yoursef then post
If you mix some AFs or destroyers in with your BS gang then an inty gang won't bother you. They don't have the range to snipe the smaller stuff and can't single it out without getting into web range of the BS. Of course if your AFs/Destroyers run away from the BS gang they're dead pretty quick, but that's playing their game rather than forcing them to play yours.
If you want to talk solo, then a Hawk/Harpy or a Cormorant will give a long-range inty a problem. An AC Thrasher will give problems to any inty in web range.
You may not kill inties with these ships (the inties can run), but you'll give them trouble if they try to mess with your BS gang.
Vaga is very hard to kill without a Huginn and frigs/destroyers are of little help. The smaller ships were for the inties, not the Vaga, but I thought that obvious.
_____
CPU Love |
Streetrip
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 18:05:00 -
[84]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 17:43:28
For ppl that don't get it why this NOS change is very bad pls read this
Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs.
So what will hapend whit ships that can't keep up Deimos, Myrm , Drake , Megatron , Abaddon , Zealot , Munnin Die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof
Just neut the damn things...web them too while your at it. They may be NOS proof but they're not neut proof. I'm not sure if u understand it. This NOS change will just make people use Neutralizers and neuts at this time are fine because they cost cap...Altho i think they should be nerfed too in advance but thats just me. I mean seriously...all your problems still have counters! You haven't "lost" eve yet! The effect your worried about loosing is the ability to drain other ships capacitors...that can still be done. The effect your persistant on wanting to stay but dont want to admit/cannot see it, is that you want a module to drain enemy cap at no cost/positive cost to your own. Thats just greedy
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Tenpun M
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:08:00 -
[85]
Originally by: AnKahn
Oh, and this is an extension of the passive tank nerf.
Can I guess your position on that one???
actually i don't think it is really, an active tank will still be disadvantaged by NOS. A passive tanked ship with 0 cap will still be 100% effective & render NOS on the attacking ship useless.
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:18:00 -
[86]
Edited by: n0thing on 30/07/2007 18:18:55
Change was really needed to adress the 6 nosf domis and the like. And yes, I am Gallente pilot. But not that kinda change imo.
But tbh, such change can be easily avoided. It doesnt solve the problem.
How? Easily.
I have dual rep setup on domi with 4 nosfs. I dont activate nosfs at first and simply kick in MWD/LAR IIs and all that uses cap. Wow, my cap falls below 20%. Now I nosf my target, then again, self-drain myself and nosf him again and again.
If I wanna risk further I can self-drain myself to even 5% cap and then kill enemy cap completly even now.
Doesnt change anything.
---
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Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:19:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Tenpun M
Originally by: AnKahn
Oh, and this is an extension of the passive tank nerf.
Can I guess your position on that one???
actually i don't think it is really, an active tank will still be disadvantaged by NOS. A passive tanked ship with 0 cap will still be 100% effective & render NOS on the attacking ship useless.
This change will have negligible effect on passive tankers.
It won't hurt any active tankers relative to the status quo. (Non-Nos ***** division)
It will help active tankers who are strapped for cap before nos as they can no longer be nossed.
==> good for active tankers.
_____
CPU Love |
Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 18:21:00 -
[88]
Originally by: n0thing
If I wanna risk
...
Doesnt change anything.
That's the change.
_____
CPU Love |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:31:00 -
[89]
Do you guys realize that Heavy Neuts have a cycle time of 24 secs? That will NOT keep any inty from tackling you forever...
Now if Neuts get their cap drain, cap need and cycle time halved, maybe THEN we can talk about them as nos replacement as the only viable defense for BS against small fast ships.
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
AnKahn
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:35:00 -
[90]
Tenpun and others,
Maybe more accurate to say this is a logical extension of the passive tank nerf. The gankers(really the only possible pro NOS people)were crying "Nerf the Drake" cuz their nos ships could not solo pwn the passive tank. They celebrated the small nerf they got but this is the follow up to it. I agree the NOS nerf helps the active tankers and TOGETHER with the passive tank nerf brings the shield tank thing into better balance.
The other reason for that particular post of mine was to try and point out that pro-NOS = GANKER. Ganker = GRIEFER.
Yes every game needs bad guys. Just with NOS the bad guys had a slightly too powerful weapon. Yes I read that NOS could be used for good but we still have neuts for that.
And how may times have you died warp scrambled and with a dry cap, with annoying drones pew pewing you.
This is the beginning of Gallente balancing too guys.
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Soros
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 18:36:00 -
[91]
I am 'pro' the changes, however I still think signature radius effected nos would be better
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Roidpwning101
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 18:37:00 -
[92]
Best possible change? Nope.
Change? Yes
Change = good?
...yes.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 18:37:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Do you guys realize that Heavy Neuts have a cycle time of 24 secs? That will NOT keep any inty from tackling you forever...
Where is the problem?
Allign, neut inty, hit warp.
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Master OlavPancrazio
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:38:00 -
[94]
*GrumbleGrumbleGrumbleGrumbleGrumbleGrumbleGrumbleGrumbleGrumbleGrumbleGrumbleGrumbleGrumbleGrumble nos nos amar sux pilgrim sux grumble wtf missles grumble*
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AnKahn
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:39:00 -
[95]
The defense against small fast ships?
Bring a small fast friend.
MMO right?
Maybe CCP smarter than we give them credit for?
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:48:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: n0thing
If I wanna risk
...
Doesnt change anything.
That's the change.
Well, I didnt say im against the change, I fly nosf-domi myself and dont intend to be against it.
It boosts cap using weapons a little, now we can fire while nossed, and it boosts Amarr since their damage source is always cap using.
So yea, sure why not, just Curse pilots need to be more carefull now.
As for whiners win...well, mod that was giving you cap in expense of nothing, wasnt a good thing. Maybe it was in the past, but when it became a trend....it needs a change.
---
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Brother Todd
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:49:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Shin Mao
This nerf kiled my dream be honorable & proud pilot of curse and piligrim good job CCP, thank you...
There was nothing honorable about flying said ships and it was certainly nothing to be proud of. Stop chasing the FOTM ffs!
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Exlegion
KnightRaven Research
KnightRaven Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 18:53:00 -
[98]
Originally by: AnKahn
The defense against small fast ships?
Bring a small fast friend.
MMO right?
Maybe CCP smarter than we give them credit for?
I need to pick on your statement because I see this being brought up numerous times:
MMO =! Massive Multi-Friendship Online, especially in Eve, where friendships can easily be betrayed and abused. Don't make an MMO more than what it is.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
Alexandre Reinard
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 18:56:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess
Personally, i like this change.
But i'd ask to add neutralizer bonuses comparable to ones for nosf on curse/piligrim. Or just change nosf bonuses to neutralizer... cuz they really should suck in general after this change.
Curse and Pilgrim's bonuses already work with neutralizers.
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Ethan Hunte
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:56:00 -
[100]
something like utility slots would have stopped the abuse of NOS without nerfing the specialty ships.
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Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 19:03:00 -
[101]
Originally by: n0thing
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: n0thing
If I wanna risk
...
Doesnt change anything.
That's the change.
Well, I didnt say im against the change, I fly nosf-domi myself and dont intend to be against it.
It boosts cap using weapons a little, now we can fire while nossed, and it boosts Amarr since their damage source is always cap using.
So yea, sure why not, just Curse pilots need to be more carefull now.
As for whiners win...well, mod that was giving you cap in expense of nothing, wasnt a good thing. Maybe it was in the past, but when it became a trend....it needs a change.
Sorry, that was my point and I was trying to flex my forum-fu. If you want to nuke someone's cap, you have to face a risk/cost by either nuking your own cap then using nos or by using neuts.
I imagine a well-piloted curse will be nearly as effective as before. The judicious use of neuts will be more important, but pilots who can't use neuts effectively probably shouldn't be killing BS's in a nos/neut cruiser anyway.
_____
CPU Love |
Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 19:06:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Ethan Hunte
something like utility slots would have stopped the abuse of NOS without nerfing the specialty ships.
Nos hardpoints may not have been practical to implement. Modifying the pilgrim/curse bonus probably makes more sense than adding a new family of hardpoints to the game.
_____
CPU Love |
Hephaesteus
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 19:15:00 -
[103]
I used to be firmly in the "leave nos alone camp" now though I think this will be a good thing for the game.
Me goes washes and waxes Deimos and Astarte, and pats ecm drones. 
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Sazkyen
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 19:18:00 -
[104]
I'm thinking about aborting my Gallente BS skill training.
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Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 19:21:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Sazkyen
I'm thinking about aborting my Gallente BS skill training.
Why? Gallente BS get a huge boost out of this.
_____
CPU Love |
Man1ac
Xenobytes
Stain Empire
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 19:21:00 -
[106]
Bye bye Pilgrim,
3 nosf with no range bonus was barely enough to keep you alive.
... And now you are going to be just super-expensive cyno ship.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.07.30 19:36:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Man1ac
Bye bye Pilgrim,
3 nosf with no range bonus was barely enough to keep you alive.
... And now you are going to be just super-expensive cyno ship.
Please donate all your Pilgrims to me.
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Gawain Hill
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Posted - 2007.07.30 19:39:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Man1ac
Bye bye Pilgrim,
3 nosf with no range bonus was barely enough to keep you alive.
... And now you are going to be just super-expensive cyno ship.
or rather nice and cheap since no one will fly them...
/me places buy order
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MirrorGod
Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 19:41:00 -
[109]
As an Amarr pilot who can only benefit from not having to worry about Nos boats, I'd like to say the Nos-nerf is completely ********. Try again kthx.
/signed
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Timmeh ([email protected]) |
Byzan Zwyth
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 19:42:00 -
[110]
I agree NOS needed to be nerfed, but this is too much. This will totaly roger NOS and the ships that use it. Mostly gallente and amarr who's weapons need cap.
----------------------
Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder
Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc? |
Aston Gulliver
Gallente
Kudzu Collective
Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 19:42:00 -
[111]
I'm not a fan of this nerf for a couple of reasons. The most important of which being that it effectively nerfs a number of ships altogether. Gone are the days of NOS being used, at all. Why equip something that puts you on an even playing field with the target? This makes no sense. Can we get guns that only take HP away from you target as long as you have fewer HP? Armor repairers that repair armor even with your opponents HP?
I feel like this nerf was a creative solution rather than a technically sound one. I think there were a number of proposed nerfs that were very interesting including:
- protected cap past 30%
- tracking speeds
- smart bombing to "overload" the energy stream
And to top it all of, since when was the issue that NOS were preferred over neuts? Huh? I'm witholding distain and utter disrespect as this change hasn't hit tranquility. I'd suggest a serious rethink here...
PS - I'm thinking that this pretty much nerfs half the Amarr BS setups. Could an Amarr BS pilot speak to this?
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Gabriel Karade
Quam Singulari
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.30 19:48:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Sazkyen
I'm thinking about aborting my Gallente BS skill training.
haha classic...I guess you can't distinguish the arse-end of a large blaster from a siege launcher...
Well good luck to you Sir!...
----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Man1ac
Xenobytes
Stain Empire
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 19:51:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Please donate all your Pilgrims to me.
Nah, they still good at hauling small expensive stuff.
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Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 19:55:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Soros
I am 'pro' the changes, however I still think signature radius effected nos would be better
QFTW.. This 'socialist' NOS is absolutely ********, Oh, Im richer in cap percentage wise than you, I cant take any of your cap. But those low in cap can steal from the rich ?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..............
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Uhr Zylex
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Posted - 2007.07.30 19:58:00 -
[115]
Totally signed. The proposed solution is not very well thought out at all. It is generally agreed that noses need a nerfing of some sort, but for the love of god, make it some sort of sig radius based thing that reduces usefulness of big noses vs small targets!
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Zkillz kun
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 19:59:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus
Originally by: AnKahn
Yes to NOS change. I haven't even read what it is.
What a stupid module to begin with.
Learn to fight with actual weapons.
And all you gankers/pirates. Oh yea, you make EvE fun to play. Right!
WTB the powergrid to actually fit weapons.
i heard you like awu. only weaponst that take more pg than nos are large artilery, 250mm rails and heavy beams. and you can't fit those on any ship that has a tank
_____
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Foxy CEO
Altcenaries
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 20:00:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Aston Gulliver
Why equip something that puts you on an even playing field with the target? This makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense. You have no interest in "evening the playing field" when you are ahead. When you are behind, however, it's a good idea. Many ships cap themselves out quickly and could use a spare high slot or two for nos to even the playing field with their target.
Nos is an energy siphon. Try to siphon water uphill.
Quote:
- protected cap past 30%
This did that, effectively. Having untouchable cap past 30% would have made cap ships very very hard to kill without cap ships, but with this you'll find few ships able to nos you below 25% without shutting down themselves.
Quote:
- tracking speeds
With an entire nos skill tree to go with it? NosDomis would still be a problem.
Quote:
- smart bombing to "overload" the energy stream
A mod which helps me when attacked by a specific ship but no others that takes up a high slot mod where I could put nos? Why not just use nos?
Quote:
And to top it all of, since when was the issue that NOS were preferred over neuts?
The problem is that Nos works as a neut, only better. Now if you want to kill someone else's cap you have to use neuts. If you want to make someone else pay for your own cap-hungry ways, use nos.
NBALT Recruitment |
Kadesh Priestess
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 20:00:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Alexandre Reinard
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess
Personally, i like this change.
But i'd ask to add neutralizer bonuses comparable to ones for nosf on curse/piligrim. Or just change nosf bonuses to neutralizer... cuz they really should suck in general after this change.
Curse and Pilgrim's bonuses already work with neutralizers.
Lol, sorry, never noticed that, always considered curse to be nosf-only ship...
Now, i want to say that i love this change :) w/o any drawbacks.
And, maybe, nosf/neut really should be dependant upon signature radius or like that... dunno how neut kills the same energy amount on both BS and frigate...
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Prez21
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 20:15:00 -
[119]
I actualy like the change, im not sure how effective it will be, but only time will tell and i think it will bring another strategic option to the game.
However how does this change affect the Bhaalgorn? from the looks of things it will realy hit this ship hard as unlike the curse/pilgrim it doesnt get the neut bonus.
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
FreeFall Securities
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 20:19:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Prez21
I actualy like the change, im not sure how effective it will be, but only time will tell and i think it will bring another strategic option to the game.
However how does this change affect the Bhaalgorn? from the looks of things it will realy hit this ship hard as unlike the curse/pilgrim it doesnt get the neut bonus.
The Bhaal needs to be buffed/fixed (as do all faction ships), and then everything is fine.
Originally by: Goumindong
it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
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Spaced Skunk
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 20:31:00 -
[121]
Nos nerf YAR!!
This balance makes me go YARRR!!
Ok blood raider ships need a revise, but other than that yarr!
Neutralisers are a little more risky to use, so I like this change.
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DeadDuck
Amarr
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.07.30 20:38:00 -
[122]
Nice to see the high slots full of NOs + Drones saying bye bye to the game. You can still use the neutralizers but ... is not the same isnt it
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lyrenna
Caldari
The Renaissance
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Posted - 2007.07.30 20:39:00 -
[123]
i refuse to say no to nos nerf as a af pilot(hell yeah there is a little of us who willing to pvp with them) nos nerf is good especialy in current situation its a damn i win button against frig sized ships.
time to train up your neut skill up, no more lvl 3 iwin system operation shutting up everything.
===
when you armor tank a raven god kills a kitten.
=== |
Man1ac
Xenobytes
Stain Empire
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 20:39:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Spaced Skunk
Nos nerf YAR!!
Neutralisers are a little more risky to use, so I like this change.
Totally in Favor!!! YARRR!!!
Also please nerf Non-Covert Cloaks! Make them eat capacitor to function!
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Insidi Us
Amarr
Suicidal Mercenaries
The Makhai
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 20:41:00 -
[125]
Hmm, I am not happy about this one. But I'll adapt, as always.
Why not add a NOS range bonus to the Pilgrim, since it is not as good a speed-tanker as the Curse is. Curse might be able to MWD fast enough to neut an interceptor, but the slower Pilgrim probably wouldn't ever get fast enough, even with speed rigs and implants. Perhaps the Pilgrim should lose its ridiculous cyno fuel bonus (who actually uses it that way?) and make its role more along the lines of a mid-range cap killer. Neut a couple times down to a tiny cap, then NOS back up, then neut again, etc etc.
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Fight the blob! |
Drazin DawnTreader
The Elear
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 21:03:00 -
[126]
How will this affect Mission runners?
Do NPC ships always have 100% Cap, therefore allowing mission runners to still use NoS in place of making thier ships cap stable?
I am -mostly- a Frigate driver. Inty's, AF's Cov-ops... So any change to NoS is a good change imo.
Though like others, I much prefer the Sig-Rad idea.
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Zenst
Gallente
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 21:06:00 -
[127]
i disagree, change makes sence, though skill to allow you to have greater cap would be ncie (5% difference per level type affair be enough) as I want capital NOS and neuts - now look at the changes
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:20:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader
How will this affect Mission runners?
Do NPC ships always have 100% Cap, therefore allowing mission runners to still use NoS in place of making thier ships cap stable?
No, NPC ships have a limited pool of nosable cap.
If it is empty they will still be able to shoot with the same frequency and will have a tank pulse less regulary.
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Cpt Placeholder
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:33:00 -
[129]
Nosferatus are too good, no doubt, but I'll say no to this change until the tank/gank ratio gets balanced.
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Cloue
Gallente Stripping Agency
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 21:34:00 -
[130]
I fly pilgrim and have so on sisi too, i can confirm that its has been heavily nerfed.
You wont be able to solo anything really above cruiser in this now.
Let me explain for the FIT NEUTS PEOPLE
Lets say we fit 2 neuts and 1 nos, the 2 neuts will kill ur cap pritty fast but heh thats fine we can now use are nos BUT remember you have to tank his dmg which u cant do at 10%cap and 1 nos and the fight is gona last long enough as you just dont have the dps.And his cap wont be killed before yours is.
Why not fit cap boosters you say, no power grid for that
Why not use cap rigs you say, you need them for your tank, take them away and you really are left with an easily breakable tank
Now i have had some awesome fights in the pilgrim lurking around space looking for a sweet 1v1 as thats how i play the game,i do play in groups also but sometimes you just wanna gout out there on your own.I have killed many ships in it but i have also lost them a few times, i really do think they are perfect as they are now
I agree nos did need a nerf BUT on ships that werent speced for it eg. NOS DOMI
Also i cannot comment on the curse as i havent really tried that ship out but it is proabally the same for the curse.
It really is a shame tbh as the pilgrim was such a fun ship to fly and after all isnt this game about having fun?
8 out of 10 Owners who Expressed a Preference said Their Cats Preferred Gallente Stripping Agency. |
n0thing
omen.
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 21:36:00 -
[131]
Edited by: n0thing on 30/07/2007 21:40:00
Just thought about someone said that neuts being unchanged isnt fair, well, nosf is 2 way, you send/receive, while neut is only send. Thus, ofc more complicated module have its limitations.
Neutralizers however, now will requere nano pilots also to be aware. Before, you could see the trouble of nosfs and pull out of range, now if your target is smart, he can catch you with your pants down and zero cap from one activation. Thus also will need same amount of care when flying at all ranges yet still engaged in close-range combat scenario.
And Gallente, it doesnt do anything apart from helping all cap using weapons to be on par with capless weapons. Imo, the best thing to do.
Moreover, you can just alter Domi setups if you like em so much to use 2 neuts/2 nosfs. However, now we will finally see some diversity, some will fly turret cap using ships like finally Zealots and Deimoses, some will fit neuts, some nosfs....would be alot better imo.
Oh and btw, game is about fun yes, but its not fun when single recon outclasses its own race HAC and also does other race`s EW while using its own EW type. The key in post above is: I killed many but lost few.
And above pilot doesnt rely on his skill, he relies on his ship. Thats whats wrong. Source of kills should be primarily the expirience, secondary the SP and the ship setup.
Moreover, well, if you got no grid, you can easily, easily fit an RCU in there, and loose how much 200m/s? 300m/s? From about 3 000 m/s you got? Oh...right, now the dreads in siege will track you with long range guns and surely kill you.
---
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Serret
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:48:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Cloue
I fly pilgrim and have so on sisi too, i can confirm that its has been heavily nerfed.
You wont be able to solo anything really above cruiser in this now.
"Role: Force Recon Ship
Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships, they are nonetheless able to do their job as reconaissance vessels very effectively, due in no small part to their ability to interface with covert ops cloaking devices and set up cynosural fields for incoming capital ships."
--
<Coupo`Work> if i die illl gum you to death |
Aston Gulliver
Gallente
Kudzu Collective
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:49:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Foxy CEO
Originally by: Aston Gulliver
Why equip something that puts you on an even playing field with the target? This makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense. You have no interest in "evening the playing field" when you are ahead. When you are behind, however, it's a good idea. Many ships cap themselves out quickly and could use a spare high slot or two for nos to even the playing field with their target.
Nos is an energy siphon. Try to siphon water uphill.
With an entire nos skill tree to go with it? NosDomis would still be a problem.
Quote:
- smart bombing to "overload" the energy stream
A mod which helps me when attacked by a specific ship but no others that takes up a high slot mod where I could put nos? Why not just use nos?
Quote:
And to top it all of, since when was the issue that NOS were preferred over neuts?
The problem is that Nos works as a neut, only better. Now if you want to kill someone else's cap you have to use neuts. If you want to make someone else pay for your own cap-hungry ways, use nos.
Ok, lets see here.
Siphon water uphill
This makes no sense. How exactly does this apply to cap transfer? Confused. Not going to respond...
NOS Domis would be overpower even with a tracking hit.
One of the reasons NOS is overpowered is it basically makes smaller ships stay out range. Ever tried tackling a NOS Domi in an inty? Ya doesn't work so well. Apply tracking to NOS and bam, who cares if you have 4 Heavy NOS fitted. This is pretty much how every other weapon system in EVE works. Even missles have explosion velocities...
Smart bombs only help to conteract NOS
Once again have you ever been instapopped by a BS with large Smart Bombs? Hmm I have...
NOS works better than a Neut
A NOS and Neut are similar but not the same. To say that NOS works better is moot. Although now you could probably make the assertion as NOS has become ********.
I guess my whole point is no one is going to use NOS now. Was it unbalance before? Yes. However, its still unbalanced, just in the opposite way now as NOS doesn't factor into the equation anymore...
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Cloue
Gallente Stripping Agency
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:59:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Serret
Originally by: Cloue
I fly pilgrim and have so on sisi too, i can confirm that its has been heavily nerfed.
You wont be able to solo anything really above cruiser in this now.
"Role: Force Recon Ship
Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships, they are nonetheless able to do their job as reconaissance vessels very effectively, due in no small part to their ability to interface with covert ops cloaking devices and set up cynosural fields for incoming capital ships."
Yes i was Forceing my recon down people throats, whats the problem?
8 out of 10 Owners who Expressed a Preference said Their Cats Preferred Gallente Stripping Agency. |
Leon Czolgosz
Amarr
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:07:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess
Originally by: Alexandre Reinard
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess
Personally, i like this change.
But i'd ask to add neutralizer bonuses comparable to ones for nosf on curse/piligrim. Or just change nosf bonuses to neutralizer... cuz they really should suck in general after this change.
Curse and Pilgrim's bonuses already work with neutralizers.
Lol, sorry, never noticed that, always considered curse to be nosf-only ship...
And therein lies the problem with nosferatu. Everybody thought of it that way, or more significantly as such an IWIN butan that no one would fit a neutralizer.
Now if they'll just nerf non-covert cloaks to the point where one can either choose to rat, or to fit a cloak, the game will be perfect. Apart from lag and desynchronization.
Oh, and get rid of warp to zero. Make it warp to 10.
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:09:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Cloue
Originally by: Serret
Originally by: Cloue
I fly pilgrim and have so on sisi too, i can confirm that its has been heavily nerfed.
You wont be able to solo anything really above cruiser in this now.
"Role: Force Recon Ship
Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships, they are nonetheless able to do their job as reconaissance vessels very effectively, due in no small part to their ability to interface with covert ops cloaking devices and set up cynosural fields for incoming capital ships."
Yes i was Forceing my recon down people throats, whats the problem?
You certainly talk nonsense. One ship never shouldnt be an answer to everything.
Your supposed to fly diff ships for diff situations, that what its about.
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6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:13:00 -
[137]
I think the proposed Nos changes are excessive and will only lead to another round of boosting/nerfing. I will post an alternative idea shortly.
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Cloue
Gallente Stripping Agency
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:16:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Cloue on 30/07/2007 22:16:48
Originally by: n0thing
Originally by: Cloue
Originally by: Serret
Originally by: Cloue
I fly pilgrim and have so on sisi too, i can confirm that its has been heavily nerfed.
You wont be able to solo anything really above cruiser in this now.
"Role: Force Recon Ship
Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships, they are nonetheless able to do their job as reconaissance vessels very effectively, due in no small part to their ability to interface with covert ops cloaking devices and set up cynosural fields for incoming capital ships."
Yes i was Forceing my recon down people throats, whats the problem?
You certainly talk nonsense. One ship never shouldnt be an answer to everything.
Your supposed to fly diff ships for diff situations, that what its about.
I fly all race ships would ya believe it just happened to be i had most fun in the pilgrim
8 out of 10 Owners who Expressed a Preference said Their Cats Preferred Gallente Stripping Agency. |
Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:29:00 -
[139]
I didnt read the whole post, but there will be a new use for capacitor flux coils. They are not useless anymore.
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General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.07.31 07:16:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 17:43:28
For ppl that don't get it why this NOS change is very bad pls read this
Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs.
So what will hapend whit ships that can't keep up Deimos, Myrm , Drake , Megatron , Abaddon , Zealot , Munnin Die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof
lol you descredited yourself... putting munin as a ship that fear inties. It will pop several inties far before they reach the munin.
And i don see why a quite superior squad of inties should not be a very powerfull force.
Overload web and you have range to keep 8/10 inties out of their weapons range. If they are too many.. so bad, bring friends.
Or use the new marvelous khanid dictor to pulverize the inties.
The amount of carebear stupidity you have is realy huge . We're not talking fleet warfare here the T2 BS is gonna be king no matter what you do but small gangs (read up to 10 ppl). And we're not talking idiots that fly an inty at 2km/s .
We're talking ppl that can take and inty at over 7 km/s easy (claymore gang mods ftw). And the distance of the targets is gonna be gate range max. 20 KM . Try flying some ships and killing stuff whit them whiout being in a fleet.
Say NO to the NOS nerf |
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Ivan Kirilenkov
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.07.31 07:19:00 -
[141]
Keep the feedback in the feedback thread in EIP please.
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