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Kolwrath
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:01:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kolwrath on 13/08/2007 18:03:08
How do you guys think removing local in low and no sec would change game play?
This is not a "I think it should" or "I think it should not" post. I am just wondering what you guys think the impact of such a change would have on low-sec and no-sec game play.
My guess:
-It would make pirating harder. Pirates would have to come into a system and scan. They would have to hunt. This would be good for Prey since they could mine or do what have you and just pay attention to the overview instead of the local window. On the other hand low-sec and no-sec would be much scarier since you would never know who is out there. You would never feel safe. That being the case I would be low-sec would become even emptier overall due to the shear ôscarinessö increase.
-It would adversely affect blobbing since you would never be able to tell how big the target gang is. With local you can say ôoh they have 10 guys, we better get 12ö. Without local scouting to find a rough enemy count would be imperative. This would of course lead to safe spot traps where one guy is camping a gate, and 12 of his mates are 500km away waiting to reinforce.
So I guess I would say it would decrease the amount of PVP in all aspects quite abit. Gang leaders wont be able to say ôengage, there is no way we can looseö anymore. Battles will be a lot less ôcertainö. Engaging hostiles will become a large gambit since the ôknown unknownö factors such as gang size and reinforcement availability (yes I said it) would be much more substantial.
What do you guys think?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:03:00 -
[2]
0.0 carebears would become emo
____ __ ________
_sig below_
devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
Kolwrath
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:04:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: SiJira
0.0 carebears would become emo
Emo? could you explain?
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Illyria Ambri
RennTech
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:04:00 -
[4]
I think you should read the 9 page thread regarding this topic rather then starting yet another one.
------------
This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Here come the Drums!! - The Master |
BritishInvader
Amarr
Leela's Lamas
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:06:00 -
[5]
I don't give a **** because it's a hypothetical situation that will never happen.
-----+-----
Mailing List: Eve Art Store Orders
Channel: Eve Art Store
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MrJordanIOI
Minmatar
The Lantern Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:06:00 -
[6]
Give players the ability to distort local information.
Make a module that confuses whatever scanner on your ship derives the total number in system.
Let it copy players from systems closeby into local and fake their signature as if they were here.
IOI
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=567889&page=1#8..I just checked the subscription numbers, |
Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:06:00 -
[7]
The price of recons would skyrocket and we would spend all day warping past each other cloaked trying to find someone to fight...
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Ryan Scouse'UK
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:12:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ryan Scouse''UK on 13/08/2007 18:12:12
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
The price of recons would skyrocket and we would spend all day warping past each other cloaked trying to find someone to fight...
Me watchs frig in belt... warps in with my pilly... next thing 50 pilly decloak.. free for all.. Frig makes it out alive... while 45 of us are in pods.. =/
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Kolwrath
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Illyria Ambri
I think you should read the 9 page thread regarding this topic rather then starting yet another one.
Could have posted the link perhaps?
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Kolwrath
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: BritishInvader
I don't give a **** because it's a hypothetical situation that will never happen.
Yeah I dont think it will happen either. But this thread was supposed to be a "what do you think would change gameplay wise" thread ... but it seems to have become a massive troll magnet :(
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Kolwrath
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: MrJordanIOI
Give players the ability to distort local information.
Make a module that confuses whatever scanner on your ship derives the total number in system.
Let it copy players from systems closeby into local and fake their signature as if they were here.
IOI
Please read the OP. I want to know what you think it would do to change gameplay. Not what you think a new feature or way to manipulate local that should be added.
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:15:00 -
[12]
Removing local removes the only reliable intelligence tool in 0.0. No reliable intelligence means no carebears. No 0.0 carebears means no refining tax to 0.0 alliances. 0.0 collapses overnight.
Fun.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
Sanctuary
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:25:00 -
[13]
Removing local would have some significant effects on commerce.
Travel would take a lot longer, especially in lowsec and 0.0, as you'd have to scout every gate before heading in for bubbles. Not so much a problem in lowsec, because you can't bubble there, but in general travel across EVE would slow down, even to a certain extent in hisec for corps at war.
Scouts would be much more in demand, and alts would probably not be sufficient to serve the demand. Prices would go up on many goods, ore prices would jump a good bit, and a lot of people would complain.
SEARCh- we find sites for you! |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Removing local would have some significant effects on commerce.
Travel would take a lot longer, especially in lowsec and 0.0, as you'd have to scout every gate before heading in for bubbles. Not so much a problem in lowsec, because you can't bubble there, but in general travel across EVE would slow down, even to a certain extent in hisec for corps at war.
Scouts would be much more in demand, and alts would probably not be sufficient to serve the demand. Prices would go up on many goods, ore prices would jump a good bit, and a lot of people would complain.
so you are saying nothing out of the ordinary from the usual patch changes  
____ __ ________
_sig below_
devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kolwrath
-It would make pirating harder. Pirates would have to come into a system and scan. They would have to hunt. This would be good for Prey since they could mine or do what have you and just pay attention to the overview instead of the local window. On the other hand low-sec and no-sec would be much scarier since you would never know who is out there. You would never feel safe. That being the case I would be low-sec would become even emptier overall due to the shear ôscarinessö increase.
Probably, but I imagine this will scare more people out of low-sec with the exception of people mining in hidden belts.
Quote:
-It would adversely affect blobbing since you would never be able to tell how big the target gang is. With local you can say ôoh they have 10 guys, we better get 12ö. Without local scouting to find a rough enemy count would be imperative. This would of course lead to safe spot traps where one guy is camping a gate, and 12 of his mates are 500km away waiting to reinforce.
Most likely, actually.
Quote:
So I guess I would say it would decrease the amount of PVP in all aspects quite abit. Gang leaders wont be able to say ôengage, there is no way we can looseö anymore. Battles will be a lot less ôcertainö. Engaging hostiles will become a large gambit since the ôknown unknownö factors such as gang size and reinforcement availability (yes I said it) would be much more substantial.
Possibly, but hard to say...
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Whiners - Unite!
Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |
Jimer Lins
Gallente
Sanctuary
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tarminic
Probably, but I imagine this will scare more people out of low-sec with the exception of people mining in hidden belts.
Well, hidden belts are no longer deadspace so it's trivial to probe them out. No local would give scouts a huge boost. Smart miners would get scouts to first check the system out, probe for anyone in a safe, and then monitor the gates to report on anyone entering the system.
Probably won't happen, few groups are that organized. But it'd be nice to see. For those dedicated to mining, gate scouts and probing ships to find people in local before going in would become as much a part of a serious mining operation as haulers.
Thing is, there's no real incentive to go to lowsec to mine at the moment, the rewards simply don't match the risk. Of course, removing local changes one of the fundamental parts of that equation. But I'm not totally certain what the eventual ramifications would be.
SEARCh- we find sites for you! |
Jenna Shame
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:50:00 -
[17]
Make it fun for characters with balls.
This means that it would make it not fun for 90% of the player base and won't be done.
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:57:00 -
[18]
0.0 would actually be dangerous, and that's just outrageous!!!rabblerabblerabble!
Personally it's something I'd love to finally see as it would 0.0 would be somewhere you need both brains and balls to become successful. Sadly what many people don't seem to realize is that "no local" works against aggressors looking for kills as much as it does for them (harder to locate targets, can't see incoming hostiles and so on).
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Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:00:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Hamfast on 13/08/2007 19:00:22
it would make my scout's life less worthy ...
All he would be able to tell is if there was anyone around the gate he just jumped through, not how full the system is.
None of us is as dumb as all of us...
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
Sanctuary
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:03:00 -
[20]
It would turn scout into a full-time first-class profession, which would, in my opinion, be made of win. Scouts are valued now, but they're mostly considered a tool, the means to the end. Dedicated and talented scouts are hard to find now, because it's not a very fulfilling role. Removing local would make scouts more than just what you do with an alt.
SEARCh- we find sites for you! |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:06:00 -
[21]
I speculate that remove local whines would be replaced with "bring back local" whines.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
I speculate that remove local whines would be replaced with "bring back local" whines.
Yes, I forgot to mention - the forums would be filled with truly epic whines. Exclamation points would arc across the skies, sad faces would pile in the streets, and carebears and gankbears everywhere will be united in their great chorus of whining. And then the world will ***** at the seams, and all will be lost. Lost I say!
------------
Whiners - Unite!
Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |
Jenna Shame
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hamfast
Edited by: Hamfast on 13/08/2007 19:00:22
it would make my scout's life less worthy...
All he would be able to tell is if there was anyone around the gate he just jumped through, not how full the system is.
There is this thing...called the scanner.
CCP could increase the range a bit and bingo, scouts are still scouts, only they would need a clue too.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
I speculate that remove local whines would be replaced with "bring back local" whines.
Yes, I forgot to mention - the forums would be filled with truly epic whines. Exclamation points would arc across the skies, sad faces would pile in the streets, and carebears and gankbears everywhere will be united in their great chorus of whining. And then the world will ***** at the seams, and all will be lost. Lost I say!
This is so epic, it can only be portrayed in a painting of equal epic-ness. I would create this painting. However, I do believe it has already been created.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Trojanman190
Caldari
Murder-Death-Kill
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:37:00 -
[25]
Removing local would encourage blob warfare. Small gangs would have absolutely no chance to escape a slaughter. Small gangs have it rough as it is...
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Jenna Shame
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Trojanman190
Removing local would encourage blob warfare. Small gangs would have absolutely no chance to escape a slaughter. Small gangs have it rough as it is...
Are we playing the same game?
Seriously explain this one to me.
If anything it gives small skilled gangs a chance. Hell you could even get a few ganks on scattered blobs before they came in as 3/4ths of the lemmings wouldn't be paying attention.
You could shadow the blob picking off stragglers who fall behind.
The possibilities are endless and wonderful. Only its a bit too hard core for the carebear nature eve has these days.
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Insidi Us
Amarr
Suicidal Mercenaries
The Makhai
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:52:00 -
[27]
I think he means if that people hope for the best, but plan for the worst, they'll bring as many people as physically possible, just to cover all the bases.
People do the same thing now, they just know how many to bring. If local was gone, people would bring even more to deal with unknown variables.
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Fight the blob! |
Gort
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: BritishInvader
I don't give a **** because it's a hypothetical situation that will never happen.
... as stated during the Titanic lifeboat provisioning discussion.
Regards,
Gorty
--
When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Gort
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.08.13 20:01:00 -
[29]
Start out small.
Only true -1.0 systems have no local.
G
--
When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Jenna Shame
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Posted - 2007.08.13 20:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Insidi Us
I think he means if that people hope for the best, but plan for the worst, they'll bring as many people as physically possible, just to cover all the bases.
People do the same thing now, they just know how many to bring. If local was gone, people would bring even more to deal with unknown variables.
0.0 these days isn't about 'fun fights' its about the blob anyways. I don't think many people say 'no our gang is big enough, stay docked' these days.
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Christari Zuborov
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.13 20:25:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jenna Shame
Originally by: Trojanman190
Removing local would encourage blob warfare. Small gangs would have absolutely no chance to escape a slaughter. Small gangs have it rough as it is...
Are we playing the same game?
Seriously explain this one to me.
If anything it gives small skilled gangs a chance. Hell you could even get a few ganks on scattered blobs before they came in as 3/4ths of the lemmings wouldn't be paying attention.
You could shadow the blob picking off stragglers who fall behind.
The possibilities are endless and wonderful. Only its a bit too hard core for the carebear nature eve has these days.
QFJoygasm
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Zimjin
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Posted - 2007.08.13 20:29:00 -
[32]
What if you see no names in Local, ever, but you get warning about "Incoming warp detected". You only get this message once per 10 seconds, max, regardless of how many people are warping in, so you have to decide, "Do I wait and see who this is or do I start running right now?"
That way an escorted mining ship could immediately turn to run while the escort hangs out to see who it is.
Carebears have their wish -- they can ALWAYS run for it if someone is trying to warp on top of them, but pirates can still try to warp in further off and cloak their way in if they're patient, and pirate scouts could even detect incoming mining ships and attempt to coordinate warp-ins to catch them.
And slightly more daring Carebears might even wait to see who it is, because it might just be another Carebear and they don't want to interrupt their own mining session every time there's a warp signature.
And you might even get to catch people unawares. They're expecting their friend Bob to warp in, they hear "Incoming warp detected".... and that's not Bob!
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.08.13 20:31:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Jenna Shame
The possibilities are endless and wonderful. Only its a bit too hard core for the carebear nature eve has these days.
Productive carebears are a necessity to 0.0. No local means no productive carebears. No local, no one uses 0.0.
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Jenna Shame
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Posted - 2007.08.13 20:33:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: Jenna Shame
The possibilities are endless and wonderful. Only its a bit too hard core for the carebear nature eve has these days.
Productive carebears are a necessity to 0.0. No local means no productive carebears. No local, no one uses 0.0.
Maybe you wouldn't use 0.0, but I sure as heck would. Hell if it was that big a deal they could triple the value of the spawns to make it REALLY worth your while.
Risk vrs Reward.
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.08.13 20:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Jenna Shame
Maybe you wouldn't use 0.0, but I sure as heck would. Hell if it was that big a deal they could triple the value of the spawns to make it REALLY worth your while.
Risk vrs Reward.
I think you should go look at what the response was when CCP suggested they might move level 4s to lowsec.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.13 23:20:00 -
[36]
Edited by: SiJira on 13/08/2007 23:20:21
CCP should move level 3 missions to lowsec and level 4 missions to 0.0 and prevent people from running level 2 missions in 0.8 or above
____ __ ________
_sig below_
devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
Rhaegor Stormborn
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Posted - 2007.08.13 23:24:00 -
[37]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
I speculate that remove local whines would be replaced with "bring back local" whines.
Win.
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Daimos Bellurdan
Black Reign
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.13 23:45:00 -
[38]
Short term:
- It would kill 0.0 carebearing. You could get attacked in dead end alliance protected systems without even the smallest warning and chance.
- 0.0 would get a lot emptier once people lose lots of ships and are incapable of adapting.
- Survivors will keep to man points of player concentration (outposts, main alliance systems). Lots of systems will be totally empty.
- A lot less fights. Fighting will be limited to the scouts. Why would anyone ever attack a bait ship without intel? Even today you never know what will happen when you engage small gangs (cyno -> 5 carriers jump in, seen it happen several times).
- Macroers will seize to exist in 0.0
Long term:
- I do not think more blobbing than now will occur. We are already maxed out in that area as it is.
- After a looong time of adjustment the amount of pvp will improve.
- Lots of new tactics will surface, player skills starts to become an important factor.
- Macroers will adapt and be even more protected than now
Overall: Yes, please remove local in 0.0. In the longer run it will help the game. 0.0 will first shrink itself healthy and then grow again in the way it should have.
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coldplasma
Killson Corp
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.14 00:13:00 -
[39]
I can't believe this idea is still being tossed around. It is the most ridiculous piece of garbage idea that has ever got a fanboy following.
_________________
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JonnyWarhawk
Renovatio Industries
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.08.14 01:59:00 -
[40]
I have only been to 0.0 once but I like how local works.
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sableye
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.14 02:01:00 -
[41]
I don'nt need to speculate as I lived through no local bugs in eve, granted that was for like a day max and so things never settled down but we learned 1) you can;nt do anything against the hunters if you npc/mine, your way to vulnerabe they will catch you 2) you can kill the hunters because they can'nt see you either.
This means 0.0 becomes a very good and unexpected pvp ground but you can'nt do anything to earn isk without major drawbacks.
this lasted a day if it went on longer people wopuld leave and make isk in empire level 4's and 0.0 would almost be unpopulated its not unrealistic to make better isk of level 4's now you make 0.0 any more dangerous without buffing the rewards it will be a bigger ghost land than low security.
Join The Fight With Promo Today |
sableye
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.14 02:07:00 -
[42]
I'd also like to add that while I don't want 0.0 local togo away, perhaps some in game way of doing it would be good using channel jammers ect or perhaps random outages (no phone network works 100% of time) that may add some spice to 0.0 warfare but would not kill 0.0 completely.
Join The Fight With Promo Today |
Jaabaa
Minmatar
Dental Drilling Corporation
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Posted - 2007.08.14 02:13:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Jaabaa on 14/08/2007 02:14:00
Removing local would simply kill the game. No random chat with people you don't know, no random chat with people you do know and manage to notice in local.
So, no local = no chat, no chat = single player, and that means single player is not MMOPG.
So it will never happen. |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.14 02:17:00 -
[44]
Now Im just speculating here, but I think they'd be less smack talk in local.
C.
- sig designer - eve mail |
Nicholas Barker
MASS
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.08.14 03:30:00 -
[45]
bombageddons and warp bubbles EVERYWHERE
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sartorii
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.14 04:10:00 -
[46]
removing local would only work if there is some kind of semi-persistent (times out or needs to be refueled so they dont last forever) probe that could be dropped to monitor gate activity.
Without some such Smart players/corps/alliances will simply have dedicated cloaked alts sitting on the choke points watching jump ins... which is boring tedious work that really shouldn't require a 'brain' to process.... We've had automated sensors that could report various forms of troop/tank/aircraft movement activity for 30 years... Eve should be WAAAAY beyond what we can currently accomplish
"disconnect and self destruct one mullet at at time" [sic] |
Krulla
Minmatar
True Centii
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Posted - 2007.08.14 04:15:00 -
[47]
It'd be a bad thing in my humble opinion. They'd need to implement some other sort of early warning system.
0.0 ratters would be jittery and die more than they do now. Hunters could camp ratting systems and kill the ratters at will, meaning that all good ratting systems would be effectively useless.
In the middle of nowhere, ratters would be more safe, as the hunters would have no way to detect them, without warping inside every system and scanning every belt.
Lowsec pirates might profit a bit, since victims wouldn't see them coming. However, they're victims would be more safe if they were in low profile systems.
At the end of the day, this would result in less people in lowsec and 0.0, I believe.
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Le Cook
Amarr
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.14 08:28:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Le Cook on 14/08/2007 08:31:48
1. The ammount bookmarks will increase, because we need scanspots for every gate.
2. Fast Roaming Gangs in 0.0 will be screwed, and have to invest much more time into scanning the whole system for potential targets, but we all know 90% are empty and so this is just a big waste of time -> slow roaming -> boring.
3. Cloaked Recon Ships like Pilgrim, Arazu will become the flavour of the month, because they are completly invisible then. -> your target doesnt see u at all, until u decloak 5k next to him.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.08.14 08:32:00 -
[49]
The issue should not be about removing local from everywhere. It should be about removing local from 0.0 space only. That's what I think most people suggest, and it's the only decision I support.
It would make 0.0 feel more like deep space. It would feel darker and emptier. I don't know how it would change combat. People would use cloaked scouts more maybe? Scout all known grouping locations. It would be about spotting the enemy, not looking on a list.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Goonie Alt
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Posted - 2007.08.14 09:36:00 -
[50]
I would stop mining and ratting and live off the enemy's carebears with my arazu.
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Sandslinger
Cornerstone Unlimited
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.14 10:45:00 -
[51]
I'm answering this with the understanduing that local is simply removed without any alternative being out in place
I Think it will have a few effects and not the effects which most people have predicted in this thread like the end of macroing In fact the exact opposite will happen. To stay safe in a raven in a belt in 0.0 all you need to do is stay aligned to safe at all times chain one frig and then kill the battleships as they respawn one by one. this is the way I've seen most macro ravens operate - some even kill all spawns and donÆt chain. This means that all the macro needs to do is to include a scanner function in the macro which restarts scanner non stop. if a new player ship/probe appears on scan the macro jumps to safe and cloaks. With no local, gankers would most likely miss the fact that the macro which will react instataneously was even there.
Ergo no local is a macroers haven as they could operate all over 0.0 without anybody even realising that they're there if the macro is setup right to pop its own cans or whatever.
The exact opposite holds true for player ratting, most 99% of people ratting will rat alone in 0.0 as thatÆs the most efficient way to earn isk. If local is removed and nothing else is changed to balance it out the only safe way to rat will be to engage scanner non stop again and again for hours and hours. every time something appears you jump out. this means you'll end up going to safe when friends/macroers anything passes by so loads of disruption/wasted isk/per-H.
I can't see any but the most hardcore of 0.0 residents being bothered to rat like that having to focus that much more non stop over the old way of having local open and visible in a spot you can't miss it and without having to focus on it too intently. As indicated by others I also think recon and small ship gank gangs in the intial phase after local removal would increase exponentially as everyone would want to get in on the easy kills from the ratters that takes longer then the rest to realise 0.0 ratting isnt worth it without local and/or intell channels keeping you safe vs empire carebearing. Some people indicated ratting in groups would keep you safe but the majority of older players will always look at earning isk/time and know that group ratting vs empire solo carebearing cant compare isk wise.
So I think 0.0 would empty out a LOT. except Station systems which would be blobbed up to hell. I think eventually pvp would suffer except for gatecamps which would become much larger and be the predominant pvp form. Any non carrier Logistics would suffer greatly as scouting vs cloakers would simply not work, For mining ops even if you would have every gate in a system covered you would have to have a pvp force on standby with your barges just in case a hostile logs on inside the actual system close to the belts.
Which brings me on to log on traps which I think would become much much more common as if you take a large hostile force inside your enemies system log them off at a offgrid point then you can log them on use one cov op to find hostile ratters/miners and drop on top of them with near impunity - the only chance the victim wold have of spotting incoming enemies would be the time it takes for attacker to travel the some 14 au thats inside scan range. And the victim would have to be scanning non stop to even have a chance then(macro anybody)
|
Ruu
Caldari
JASDIP
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 11:19:00 -
[52]
Just a side question, whats a 0.0 carebear then? after reading these forums it was my understanding of a carebear was 'an empire mission runner/miner who would never dream of leaving the relative safety of empire, nor pvp'
|
Aziz Hekato
Minmatar
Hekato-Matari Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 11:32:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kolwrath
Originally by: SiJira
0.0 carebears would become emo
Emo? could you explain?
Self-destruct their Hulks crying while flying their pod into the nearest Veldspar asteroid.
*Squish*
|
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 11:37:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Aziz Hekato
Originally by: Kolwrath
Originally by: SiJira
0.0 carebears would become emo
Emo? could you explain?
Self-destruct their Hulks crying while flying their pod into the nearest Veldspar asteroid.
*Squish*
well said
____ __ ________
_sig below_
devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
Sandslinger
Cornerstone Unlimited
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:19:00 -
[55]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Aziz Hekato
Originally by: Kolwrath
Originally by: SiJira
0.0 carebears would become emo
Emo? could you explain?
Self-destruct their Hulks crying while flying their pod into the nearest Veldspar asteroid.
*Squish*
well said
Yes wholely relevant well thought out post worthy of the mature line that EVE likes to portray itself as
|
Kastar
Viziam
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:29:00 -
[56]
I'd find it a pity should local disappear.
I like to wave at people
-----------------------------------------------
|
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:36:00 -
[57]
In short.
It would become much more difficult to find intersting fights, since ppl would expect small gangs and single targets as simply bait.
Blobbing would increase exponentially, since there is no point in being the lamb at the slaugter.
Price of cloaks would go up. And everyone would fit cloaks. There is no way of determening wheter or not there are 300+ cloaked ships on any given gate...
Ppl expect the worst, so travel would slow down.
0.0 gateway systems like EC- would become total slaughterhouses since the gatecamps would be virtually undetecteble.
Price of mins would go up and T2 gear would become less and less available, since moon mining would become a very risky business, since you can't ice mine in peace anywhere and as such pos fuels would be extremely expensive.
Since general availability of items and crash in income in game would put traders, miners and manufacturers out of business the market would crash.
This would lead to the game losing lots of players and stagnation.
In general things would become a lot less fun.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:36:00 -
[58]
The bobbits would deny our presence in thier space (oh, wait a second they are already doing that now )
.
Do not read this thread!!!
|
Fester Addams
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 14:28:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kolwrath
Edited by: Kolwrath on 13/08/2007 18:21:11
Edited by: Kolwrath on 13/08/2007 18:03:08
-It would make pirating harder. Pirates would have to come into a system and scan. They would have to hunt. This would be good for Prey since they could mine or do what have you and just pay attention to the overview instead of the local window. On the other hand low-sec and no-sec would be much scarier since you would never know who is out there. You would never feel safe. That being the case I would be low-sec would become even emptier overall due to the shear ôscarinessö increase.
I dissagree.
There are two primary methods of pirating in EvE: Gate camping and roaming.
Gate camping will get a huge bonus from this as you have to actually be at the gate to see that there are no campers there, removing local will thus give the campers additional advantages, especially out in 0.0 where a bubble can catch a warp to 0 ship at the gate. Yes, most people know the names of most local pirates and can fast spot the lot of them in a system and realize there is a camp going on, usually they will even know what type of camp.
Roaming pirates have much more of my respect asthey seek out their targets rather than just sit at a gate and wait, however again removing local will not benefit the victim at all but will give the pirate a huge bonus.
The pirate would now be able to sneak into a system undetected and spend quite some time scanning before making his move.
While I am not principly against this it is wrong to claim that removing local will benefit the victims as that is false.
Quote:
-It would adversely affect blobbing since you would never be able to tell how big the target gang is. With local you can say ôoh they have 10 guys, we better get 12ö. Without local scouting to find a rough enemy count would be imperative. This would of course lead to safe spot traps where one guy is camping a gate, and 12 of his mates are 500km away waiting to reinforce.
Again I dissagree.
The reason for this in information, if you have good reliable information people will act accordingly, if you have shaky information at best and unknowns all over the place people will clump together for safety.
I would predict we would see more and larger blobs rather than fewer and smaller as the unknown now meens you throw in a few more ships just for safety... and a few more as the other guys will throw in a few more for safety... and you throw in even more to counter that he knows that you know that he knows that you know that he knows you will bring in more ships.
I am all for creating alternate info sources but untill there are working such removing local will have a negative effect on clumping (ie clumps grow not shrink), after all the human being is a heard animal and there is safety in numbers.
Quote:
So I guess I would say it would decrease the amount of PVP in all aspects quite abit. Gang leaders wont be able to say ôengage, there is no way we can looseö anymore. Battles will be a lot less ôcertainö. Engaging hostiles will become a large gambit since the ôknown unknownö factors such as gang size and reinforcement availability (yes I said it) would be much more substantial.
Odd, I disagree with both your assessments but find myself in part agreeing to your conclutions.
No more gang leader claims that we cant loose... well atleast none that can be believed, engagements will become more of a gamble as you will know very little about your foe however I think it would unpopulate lowsec even more as you would have to be constantly scanning for pirates, 0.0 unafiliated people would have a tough time too, true their posibility to hide may go upp a tad but having to keep upp a constant vigil in order not to miss a hunter will wear them down mentally, this will meen its more comfortable to simply play highsec and even more will move there.
|
Zim Zimmerson
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 14:38:00 -
[60]
What about this:
Being within 150km of an asteroid hides your name on Local. (Asteroidial Interference...)
That way you can see the names of gate campers and AFK cloakers, but not miners or pirates who are hiding out amongst the asteroid belts.
|
Gaven Blands
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 14:52:00 -
[61]
Can't the people who want No Local just stick some tape over it and let the rest of us get on with it in peace ?
|
Gaven Blands
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 14:52:00 -
[62]
Can't the people who want No Local just stick some tape over it and let the rest of us get on with it in peace ?
|
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 15:20:00 -
[63]
+'s
PVE anonimity due to needing to be scanned down, ran across randomly
No smacktalk channel
Fleets hide better
-'s
PVP targets need to be scanned down
No social channel for locals to chat in or form relationships
Fleets hide better
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 15:20:00 -
[64]
+'s
PVE anonimity due to needing to be scanned down, ran across randomly
No smacktalk channel
Fleets hide better
-'s
PVP targets need to be scanned down
No social channel for locals to chat in or form relationships
Fleets hide better
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Gaius BaItar
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 15:24:00 -
[65]
- The map would become the most used tool for info (statistics).
- Miners and ratters would need to work in gangs, as to improve their chances against random threats.
- Alliances would need to constantly patrol their most populated systems and keep early warning scouts near borders.
- Everyone would be in need of probes and probers.
- Wars would be more fun because of unpredictability of large fleets encounters.
- Small gang battles would be even more fun and would require a large portion of luck.
- Care bears would be forced to stay in high sec or get protection and scouting.
- People would need new skills to survive in a dark and unforgiving place. Some will adapt, most will die/leave.
-----------------------------------------------
THE END |
Gaius BaItar
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 15:24:00 -
[66]
- The map would become the most used tool for info (statistics).
- Miners and ratters would need to work in gangs, as to improve their chances against random threats.
- Alliances would need to constantly patrol their most populated systems and keep early warning scouts near borders.
- Everyone would be in need of probes and probers.
- Wars would be more fun because of unpredictability of large fleets encounters.
- Small gang battles would be even more fun and would require a large portion of luck.
- Care bears would be forced to stay in high sec or get protection and scouting.
- People would need new skills to survive in a dark and unforgiving place. Some will adapt, most will die/leave.
-----------------------------------------------
THE END |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 15:25:00 -
[67]
They just buffed Local.
What makes you think they're going to can it?
_________________
Burn. |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 15:25:00 -
[68]
They just buffed Local.
What makes you think they're going to can it?
_________________
Burn. |
Ruu
Caldari
JASDIP
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 15:53:00 -
[69]
Could someone reply to my point please, im basically wondering what a 0.0 carebear is?
I thaught the fact that you are in 0.0 suggests you arent a carebear, to my understanding carebear being an 'empire mission running/miner who never leaves the relative safety of empire, nor would consider pvp'.
|
Wufong Wei
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 16:04:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ruu
Could someone reply to my point please, im basically wondering what a 0.0 carebear is?
I thaught the fact that you are in 0.0 suggests you arent a carebear, to my understanding carebear being an 'empire mission running/miner who never leaves the relative safety of empire, nor would consider pvp'.
Plenty of people who aren't PvP certified in lowsec happily mining away in 0.0 mining and industrial corps.
|
Cleric JohnPreston
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 16:11:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Cleric JohnPreston on 14/08/2007 16:11:10
"SPECULATE: What effect would removing local have to gameplay?"
Alot of UNavoidable ganks due to it being removed!
|
Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 16:27:00 -
[72]
All advantages would go to the Attacker, while the Defender would be severely nerfed.
If you are Attacking, whether as a Pirate or as a Fleet, you will have dedicated Scouts who use probes as they enter systems. These individuals will be very proficient in finding people in system.
If you are Defending, whether Ratting/Mining/Mission Running or as a Fleet, you will be engaged in other activities and cannot devote full time to scanning. You location will be semi-static and you will be blind to what is going on in the system. That translates to being fruit on the vine waiting to be picked.
While an attacking force can afford to employ a few scouts, all other form of money-making ops will have their profit margins cut if they do so. To be effective, you will need scouts at every gate, simply watching for GateFire. Who will want that job? Who wants to PAY someone a full share to do that job?
Prices on all goods would rise, as the flow of 0.0 minerals would go down. Everyday life in 0.0 would be harder for those who live there, and easier for the random roaming gangs who fly thru.
|
cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 16:31:00 -
[73]
Out-of-game communications would be slightly more important in coordination between people who are not in the same corporation, alliance, or gang, but are interested in working together anyways (although this is more or less the case already, with or without local). The advance warning that local provides by its very nature would also be missing, so people would generally rely on their scanners and scouts a lot more. Smack talk wouldn't be quite as fun, since you'd only be able to smack one enemy per chat channel.
---
Grismar.net |
cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 16:33:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Ruu
Could someone reply to my point please, im basically wondering what a 0.0 carebear is?
I thaught the fact that you are in 0.0 suggests you arent a carebear, to my understanding carebear being an 'empire mission running/miner who never leaves the relative safety of empire, nor would consider pvp'.
0.0, depending on what part of 0.0 you are in and if you are in the good graces of the local alliance(s), is a lot like empire. There are many carebears in 0.0: players who are friendly with 0.0 alliances, rat and mine in 0.0 space, but rarely (or never) engage in combat. They usually return to empire when the going gets tough. On the flipside, they pay taxes.
---
Grismar.net |
RtoZ
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 17:12:00 -
[75]
This thread is simplistic in that it only asks what would happen if local was removed. There are other options to local than a simple removal. It could be kept in systems with high sovergnity levels, it could be kept in station systems, it could be a "talk to be seen" system. It could be done along with map statistics so that people are effectively hidded in 0.0. It could be done with stealth modules that people fit so that the transponders (or whatever) on their ships are inactive and they cannot use or be seen in local and map stats untill they dock... And probably also a million other ideas.
My problem with the current system, allthough tbh I use local as much as anyone when in lowsec, is that people are just too visible, which is fine for an alliance in alliance space or for a blob, but completely sucks for all small gang and individual endeavours. And imo that is what is wrong with eve 0.0 gameplay, it is too focused on the big guys, which leaves alliance space underexplored.
Imagine your average carrier or upcoming ORE cap ship pilot. The only way he can make use of those ships in 0.0, apart from station to station jumping in the carrier, is with massive protection, because whenever he moves the game mechanics put a massive beacon him telling EVERYONE in the game where he is. That is just plain wrong, its too much intel and makes the game too predictable, while putting ALL the risk in the carebear side.
I personally disagree with the obvious ccp game design bias to large corporations and alliances. Imo it adds to the blob, it destroys the very fun small gang 0.0 pvp, and it makes 0.0 a race for cluster domination, all bad things for gameplay. What is needed is a feeling that space is actually space, that its big and you can get lost in it. Atm eve feels like a labyrinth, and thats whats wrong with the local mechanics. That said, they work well for highsec, where I would leave them untouched, and they work well for systems with high soverignity levels in 0.0, where I would leave them untouched too. Where they do now work is in the empty ratting and mining and complex running and small outpost systems, where people want to keep a low profile but the game does not let them.
|
Nanobotter Mk2
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 17:14:00 -
[76]
It would require alot of other changes for removing local to be practical. It was removed once before as part of a bug, you would have been amazed almost every single person whined incessently until it ws fixed....
right now scanning is far to easy and it is far to easy to lock down people to not have local as some kind of warning. People can scan you out very easily, and when they warp in YOU ARE DEAD end of story. Scanning would need a big healthy nerf for local nerfing to be positive. also I think you will find people would blob more because they do NOT know how many people they will encounter so just incase will mandate get the biggest blob possible.
that is my opinion anyways. EVE pvp has core flaws that have nothing to do with local....I mean you can get the same intel from every other pvp game out there in some form, the difference is they cannot scan you down to determine exactly where you are, with how many friends, and warp directly on top of you and then instantly target you and be with in range to prevent you from moving indefinitely..... Those are far bigger a problem with eve than anything else.
specifically I beleive you should have to fly into areas of interest not just warp directly into them. LIke belts they should drop you out of the belt and you fly into it....ya ya I know how slow mining ships are... not sure why they are so slow and have such poor slotting cpu and grid. but it is needed. Piloting your ship has no place in eve it is just warp warp warp and that has created a serious flaw they cannot recover from.
|
Nanobotter Mk2
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 17:17:00 -
[77]
Quote:
Could someone reply to my point please, im basically wondering what a 0.0 carebear is?
I thaught the fact that you are in 0.0 suggests you arent a carebear, to my understanding carebear being an 'empire mission running/miner who never leaves the relative safety of empire, nor would consider pvp'.
you get many people in 0.0 who are playing eve on easy mode. they are buried way deep inside alliance territory and can play with almost certain safety knowing noone will be able to get into alliance space easily, and if they do they got local as warning along with all the other people in the alliance talking about intruders. you are more likely to get suicide ganked or griefed in empire than you are to get pk'd in your own alliance space.
|
slothe
Caldari
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 17:29:00 -
[78]
lots more gate camps. lots more.
|
Zalathar
Minmatar
Biometaloid INC
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 17:40:00 -
[79]
No local in 0.0 means more blods, as peple will blob together for safety.
No local in 0.0 means less people leaving empire, and as CCP wants people to leave empire, they want to keep local.
~~~~~~
*mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"*
~~~~~~
eeeeeekk  - Deckard
eeeeee...K -Darth Patches
gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge
you soo pretty
I think you're stunningly handsome and let me just say that you're wearing that dead parrot on your shoulder in a particularly dashing way today. -Hango
Your using up all the space hango! - Timmeh |
Acissej Notlimah
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 17:50:00 -
[80]
If local is ever removed, I'll quit and reprocess all of my items and sell them in jita for 10000000000000ISk per unit.
Same goes for removing static asteroid belts.
Theres much more important stuff than removing crap from the game that works the way as intended. other stuff needs a fixing...
|
sartorii
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 21:40:00 -
[81]
The other thing that would need to happen is ALL MAP statistics would need be removed as well....they are just as much 'free' (no effort) Intel as Local, and provide a clear advantage to the hunter looking for targets.. this includes pilots in space, kills, jumps, cynos.. anything you would have no way of knowing without actually being in system and/or present when it happened...
all in all I'd say removal of local would be a bad idea without revamping the entire scan/probe/situational awareness model currently in use.
"disconnect and self destruct one mullet at at time" [sic] |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 21:46:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Frug on 14/08/2007 21:46:27
Originally by: Acissej Notlimah
If local is ever removed, I'll quit and reprocess all of my items and sell them in jita for 10000000000000ISk per unit.
Same goes for removing static asteroid belts.
Theres much more important stuff than removing crap from the game that works the way as intended. other stuff needs a fixing...
Sweet. Can I have your stuff if you don't sell it?
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Nicocat
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 22:21:00 -
[83]
Why are we STILL contemplating this? There's like a thread or 10 a week about this...
----------------
Originally by: Splagada
SEED ME DADDY
Down with alts! One character per account per IP! |
cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 23:49:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Nicocat
Why are we STILL contemplating this? There's like a thread or 10 a week about this...
I didn't post in the other 9 threads this week, therefore this one is special, because I posted in it, and therefore it is unique, none of the other threads have my post in it, ergo there is no other thread dealing with this topic in this specific way, that is the way of me, and as I am the greatest person in Eve, we should still contemplate this topic in this thread.
I smell teriyaki.
---
Grismar.net |
Meleil
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 23:57:00 -
[85]
Why not have local removed. In it's place, make it so you can hack warp gates to find out how many players have come into the system recently and not left out another gate. This process wouldn't need to be timely, it would just require more intelligence on the players part. That way you could know how many players are in the system, you just wouldn't know who and the information wouldn't be handed to you for free.
~Mel
|
Sorja
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2007.08.15 00:08:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Jenna Shame
Make it fun for characters with balls.
This means that it would make it not fun for 90% of the player base and won't be done.
That sums it up.
I'm all for a local removal though, flying alone or small gang hunting would be the ultimate experience again.
Like it was on UO, you never knew when a gate opened what was going to pop through it.
TBH, UO remains the best PvP game of all times.
EVE is PvP for carebears IMHO.
It's so easy to hide in blobs and feel like a man because you have scored 10 kills in the evening.
Eventually, local removal will happen and people will adapt.
0.0 will then belong to whom deserves it and there would be no need for ****ty POS warfare and supercapicraps for that.
____________________
A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not. |
Altan Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.08.16 17:33:00 -
[87]
CCP should stop players from using the "friends" list to track down enemies too.
As complex as EVE is, I can't believe CCP has let the abuse of these functions go on for so long. This can't be that important of an issue. Anonymity benefits everyone. We all lose some broken exploits and gain the opportunity for new tactics.
Local needs to go, not because it would benefit one playstyle over another. but because its a cheap trick that impedes this game's progress towards a more complex and engaging experience. EVE is a work of art, and no masterpiece can remain flawed.
The real issue here is about stubbornness, and fear of change. If players weren't so afraid to learn something new, this would have been gone long ago.
|
Tellok
Fury Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.08.16 18:11:00 -
[88]
when and only when we can have a auto update on the scanner, clicking the thing every 3 seconds is a finger killer
|
Gort
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
|
Posted - 2007.08.16 19:36:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Gort on 16/08/2007 19:40:02
Originally by: RtoZ
Very well put comments.
You have sharpened my thinking about this issue a lot. I don't really mean get rid of local. I mean more like what you said.
Thanks,
Gorty
--
When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Big Al
The Aftermath
|
Posted - 2007.08.16 20:16:00 -
[90]
Remove local and gates as they function now (spit people out within 1au of the gate or something when they jump through) and you'll have yourself an actual space sim. Probably pretty boring though.
|
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.08.16 20:27:00 -
[91]
Give us a mod that will hide you from local - nuff said :P
|
Shidhe
Minmatar
The Babylon5 Consortuim
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.08.16 22:10:00 -
[92]
Once upon a time I thought this was a good idea - more realistic.
Then I had to try to hunt or defend against ships in 0.0, and I
realised that the game would grind to a halt with everyone in 0.0
performing pointless needle in the haystack hunts for people who
weren't there - not much fun. Local allows people to meet - for
fighting, talking,...
You can try to catch people - how do you do that
when you have no idea which system they went into before
conducting an extensive search, and they end up 15 jumps away
in the meantime.
Space is big, and if it were not for local, it would be boring as well.
|
Rawthorm
Gallente
The Establishment
Establishment
|
Posted - 2007.08.16 22:34:00 -
[93]
Local chat failed for the night due to a server issue earlier this year. As I recall all that happened was people died...alot of people
Bare in mind thats fun for the attacker at first but once it happens back, it's gonna wear real thin real fast. All that the removal of local will do is make recons a 100% effective killer, and as such we'll see all ratting, mining, and due to the then lack of targets, small scale pvp in 0.0 disapear.
We need to be tempting more people into 0.0 not giving them another reason to stay away.
|
Ruff Ceyx
Amarr
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.08.16 22:53:00 -
[94]
If they removed local,there would be cloaked alts all over 0.0
.. wait
too late..
-------------------------------------------
|
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.08.17 01:44:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 17/08/2007 01:46:53
Originally by: RtoZ
This thread is simplistic in that it only asks what would happen if local was removed. There are other options to local than a simple removal. It could be kept in systems with high sovergnity levels, it could be kept in station systems, it could be a "talk to be seen" system. It could be done along with map statistics so that people are effectively hidded in 0.0. It could be done with stealth modules that people fit so that the transponders (or whatever) on their ships are inactive and they cannot use or be seen in local and map stats untill they dock... And probably also a million other ideas.
My problem with the current system, allthough tbh I use local as much as anyone when in lowsec, is that people are just too visible, which is fine for an alliance in alliance space or for a blob, but completely sucks for all small gang and individual endeavours. And imo that is what is wrong with eve 0.0 gameplay, it is too focused on the big guys, which leaves alliance space underexplored.
Imagine your average carrier or upcoming ORE cap ship pilot. The only way he can make use of those ships in 0.0, apart from station to station jumping in the carrier, is with massive protection, because whenever he moves the game mechanics put a massive beacon him telling EVERYONE in the game where he is. That is just plain wrong, its too much intel and makes the game too predictable, while putting ALL the risk in the carebear side.
I personally disagree with the obvious ccp game design bias to large corporations and alliances. Imo it adds to the blob, it destroys the very fun small gang 0.0 pvp, and it makes 0.0 a race for cluster domination, all bad things for gameplay. What is needed is a feeling that space is actually space, that its big and you can get lost in it. Atm eve feels like a labyrinth, and thats whats wrong with the local mechanics. That said, they work well for highsec, where I would leave them untouched, and they work well for systems with high soverignity levels in 0.0, where I would leave them untouched too. Where they do now work is in the empty ratting and mining and complex running and small outpost systems, where people want to keep a low profile but the game does not let them.
This man has it spot on. Good Post - It deserves a full quoting and 4 gold stars! 
**** Edit: Found some gold
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Tanksmann
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Posted - 2007.08.17 02:11:00 -
[96]
How about the Constellation channel replaces local? You still know when enemies are nearby but you don't know EXACTLY where they are, and they don't know EXACTLY where you are.
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Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.08.17 02:13:00 -
[97]
No local would nerf pirates after they realize that the last 10 ships they attacked were bait.
Would suck for small 0.0 roaming gangs cos scanning every system for hostiles would be soooo boring. And even if they find any ships 50% chance they would be blue.
0.0 carebears and macroers would have to hit scanner every 10 sec.
Gate camps would be deathlier
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.08.17 03:04:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Elmicker on 17/08/2007 03:07:19
Originally by: Tanksmann
How about the Constellation channel replaces local? You still know when enemies are nearby but you don't know EXACTLY where they are, and they don't know EXACTLY where you are.
"Captain, there's a massive blob headed for our constellation!"
"where?"
"We don't know, sir!"
Deepsafe + no local = hidden fleet.
No matter which way you put it and no matter what you replace it with, removing local means one thing. More timesinks.
This is bad.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2007.08.17 03:41:00 -
[99]
Possibly there would be even more alts and people would have mandatory trial accounts set up with pilots and clones sitting at the select spots only to run wave after wave of recon alts to whatever location till they've gotten all the intel they need or desynced trying.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.17 11:54:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Possibly there would be even more alts and people would have mandatory trial accounts set up with pilots and clones sitting at the select spots only to run wave after wave of recon alts to whatever location till they've gotten all the intel they need or desynced trying.
and those who can already dont do that
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CCP Morpheus was here 
Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.08.19 06:00:00 -
[101]
I dont mind people arguing for the removal or downgrading of local as an information outlet.
Just please, please, PLEASE!
Stop trying to argue it as a method of making it harder for pirates and it helping the non pirates, it would not have that effect.
Removal of local would not harm piracy, that is the one reason I support a change of local as it would change the balance of piracy so that hunting piracy would become a more viable gameplay as oposed to gate/station camping.
2 or 3 times a week it seems one of thise threads pops upp and since some people consider themselves sly they sit down and try to make the argument from the carebears point of view so as to give the impression to CCP that both sides want it. Well they dont, local is great for non pirates.
There is infact no drawback to it as it works now, sure a pirate can spot that there are x potential targets in a system however he cant get anything else from it.
Are they in a station afk, just passing through, sightseeing, sitting in deep space in a shuttle taunting them or possibly in a belt mining. The pirate cant make the distinction from local and thus still has to spend time tracking them down.
The victim on the other hand only needs to know a known pirate has entered the system to know there is danger. Remove local and they will have to set upp tedious and anoying measures to gather the same intel.
Thus, please, stop trying to make it as if it would be good for the non pirate, make the argument from your real standpoint, its a decent one if presented correctly (ie not the common "I want more gank targets" whine).
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asgghsfdgsgsg
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Posted - 2007.08.31 11:17:00 -
[102]
What effect would having ship and fit display for everyone who is in the same system?
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Falbala
Gallente
Les Enfants de Gaia
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Posted - 2007.08.31 11:20:00 -
[103]
I've posted about this a long time ago, for different reasons though, but someone replied that it would be socially wrong, which is true.
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LvxOccvlta
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Posted - 2007.08.31 11:28:00 -
[104]
Removing local would make 0.0 scary, because 0.0 is meant to be scary.
There is no Concord.
On the subject of removing local and scouting for gatecamps...
I would be apprehensive about forming a gatecamp in the first place. Unless I was confident that my gang was big enough, I would otherwise be too afraid of a much larger, angrier gang barreling my down my way. Removing local would probably decrease the amount of gatecamps there are now.
And as someone said, removing local works for and against hunters and the prey.
Imagine a benefit it would bring to commerce in 0.0: Freighters would not be so easily targeted and followed-- so removing local would give an advantage in this regard to carebears who want to bring commerce to 0.0. Saying removing local would cause 0.0 economy to grind to a screeching halt is foolish talk.
Man I get excited just thinking about it: eve would finally be the game it's advertised to be.
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Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2007.08.31 11:31:00 -
[105]
Hi,
I'm up for the change of removing local in 0.0. It would totally change the game for the better in my mind.
But some things would have to be tweaked to make it still "fun" for many smaller groups.
1. Buff scanning.
2. Add a system scanning module for industrial class ships say (big size) allowing them to monitor the system for traffic while loading (but not warp to things).
3. Add the number of pilots in system information to the minimap that you could have open all the time while doing stuff (obviously its lagged 5 or so mins) for the constellation your in.
4. Maybe add the constellation channel back instead.
The problem I see with point 4 is you could end up with massive numbers of people in channels all the time and as I understood this was a cause of lag.
Taur
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althan gnartians
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Posted - 2007.09.01 09:53:00 -
[106]
Edited by: althan gnartians on 01/09/2007 09:53:50
Originally by: RtoZ
My problem with the current system, allthough tbh I use local as much as anyone when in lowsec, is that people are just too visible, which is fine for an alliance in alliance space or for a blob, but completely sucks for all small gang and individual endeavours. And imo that is what is wrong with eve 0.0 gameplay, it is too focused on the big guys, which leaves alliance space underexplored.
And what does local have to do with that issue, the aliances will just get one more advantages, their blobs will be the only thing that can protect you from gankers.
It takess less then 30 seconds for a good prober to spot if theres ships in a given system, you wont get the invisibility you think you need, and certainly big alliances can spare the resources to do hourly sweeps of most of their core space.
Non residents living in 0.0 and low sec PvE'ers will be the big big looser if local goes, NRDS(also known as anti-pirate squads) will be nerfed to death and your only real warning system will be too, along with the loners main channel for communication.
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