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Sakura Shiroi
EWH NanoTex
3
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Posted - 2012.01.24 07:40:00 -
[271] - Quote
[Umega wrote:Dzajic wrote:Its irrelevant if its faucet or not, CCP and Dr.Whateverishisname see no problems with it respect to game economy. Game design people have accepted that VGs are too good and will be fixed. Please post proof that CCP n the Doc see no problems with Incursions influence on the economy. Everyone can talk out of their ass.. and it usually smells like ass. You could atleast speculate with a point like.. it drives up PLEX prices.. making PLEX more desirable to bought with rl money for quick isks.. which in turn negatively effects rmts. But then you could also swing that around and get slapped with the logic that.. there aren't as many PLEX being bought for the demand, which is why prices have spiked.. because ppl that used to buy PLEX for quick iskies have now turned, or atleast made an alt.. to do Incursions. Which will easily fund both their new Incursion alt and pvp toon, as well as the PLEX for both. I assume.. that CCP didn't originally intend for them to be farmed like this. With a reward like a unique mom bpc.. I'm sure they thought people would burn through to get a crack at that and thus, the moms would be spanked on the spot. So unless you want to smell like Ass.. speculate, assume.. but don't claim something about someone else without proof. EDIT: And yes.. it is relevent if something is an isk faucet or sink or neither. Ignoring it makes you look like a biased idiot that has more of a hidden agenda than others, with all the back peddling/uturns/braking/right-left turns you'll have to do.
http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2011/CSM_CCP_Mettings_7-9_12_2011.pdf
Page 7 Says: "In general the EVE economy is in good shape. All macro indicators are within acceptable parameters, fluctuations are minimal and participation in the economy is going up. Most online games experience constant inflation, where the developers are constantly adding new items at higher prices which end up with devaluing both the currency used in the game and older items. EVE shows a different behavior, where over a few years there was a continued deflation (following the introduction of tech II invention) but over the past year and a half there has been good stability with a mild inflation (around 1% per month)."
also Page 8:
"Focusing the discussion on Incursions, CSM brought up the point that Incursions are unbalanced in that the easier levels of Incursions are more profitable than the more difficult levels GÇô something that CCP has noted as well and is working on adjusting. The full details of that adjustment are not known at this time as there are several options available. And the issue is not just monetary, the gameplay is also becoming too predictable, and with this predictability, the risk is reduced. Players applying cookie-cutter solutions to the sites, and running some in just a few minutes, is a problem that needs to be addressed. Both the CSM and CCP agree on that Incursions are good in terms of gameplay and ISK payout, but the time for adjustments based on player behavior data is at hand GÇô adjusting the distribution of the sites and adjusting the payout being highest on the list. But this is a positive problem, these issues are cropping up because there are so many people running Incursions. Such changes will be another example of the iterative approach CCP is committing to."
That shows clearly that CCP is aware that the Incursions are in fact NOT fiddling with the economy in a major way, although there is need to do something about the Vanguards.
See from Page 13 for further interest, that section is all about incursions.
Khanh'rhh wrote:Just reposting to confirm that carebears mewling and crying because Darius & co are running the sites AS CCP INTENDED is as hilarious as all fuckery.
"But... but .... I want to keep exploiting the same incursion for 5 days and farm for 12hours a day Q.Q"
Page 13:
"Incursion Spawn rate too fast GÇô It was brought up that many in the community feels that the overall Incursion event ends too soon. It was noted that the mothership site can be spotted in a very short time causing the actual incursion to only last a few days in high sec. Both CSM and CCP expressed a desire to increase the duration of an incursion. CCP was clear they want to keep the completion of the incursion event as organic as possible rather than putting in arbitrary tasks that have to be done, as that forces content on to players rather than allowing them to do it themselves. The CSM agreed with this sentiment and that perhaps some simple minimum timers on certain things could help extend the duration of a single incursion as needed."
Clearly it seems the CSM and CCP want them to be longer with the option to kill them earlier, but right now i personally see them as too short.
and last but not least: Also the MOM BPC only drops in Lowsec or Nullsec, so Highsec has no incentive to kill MOM-¦s early. |
Umega
Solis Mensa
58
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Posted - 2012.01.24 08:36:00 -
[272] - Quote
Sakura Shiroi wrote: Stuff..
You do know what Vanguards are the main culprit of.. ?
Don't forget the sigments about raising the risk. Also payout. Handing out the wealth of Incursions. Also I'll leave you with this...
Quote:The CSM reminded CCP that any changes done to game systems purely in terms of graphs and ISK consideration (i.e. in a vacuum) usually had some side effects on player behavior that resulted in increased player dissatisfaction. The CSM stressed that when game systems are to be changed, it has to be done in a holistic manner and in consultation with the playerbase. The CSM also wanted to make the point that such public discussions regarding Incursions, like the one taking place at the summit, were exactly the steps that needed to be taken to prevent these mishaps. CCP accepted the criticism and was also glad that the steps of discussing changes before implementation (another example is the hybrid balance done in Crucible), to prevent dissatisfaction in the future were accepted by the CSM.
At the very end of the Economy report.
Assume what you want without dialog to correctly decipher some of the quotes.
What I see when reading the minutes.. is a nerf to vanguard payout, flatout.. and while an Incursions may pay the same amount, it ends up getting spread out too more ppl, so less in each hand.. oh, while having changes to make it perhaps harder for players to do in certain current manners/methods. The quote above is a bit of a hint of things to come, a warning to warn so anger isn't so fierce on launch. |
Sakura Shiroi
EWH NanoTex
3
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Posted - 2012.01.24 10:50:00 -
[273] - Quote
Umega wrote:Assume what you want without dialog to correctly decipher some of the quotes.
What I see when reading the minutes.. is a nerf to vanguard payout, flatout.. and while an Incursions may pay the same amount, it ends up getting spread out too more ppl, so less in each hand.. oh, while having changes to make it perhaps harder for players to do in certain current manners/methods. The quote above is a bit of a hint of things to come, a warning to warn so anger isn't so fierce on launch.
I agree, Vanguards need to be thougher or pay less ultimately. But the current "close Incs down as fast as possible" is not a very good option, especially if it ultimately screws fun for quite some Players (including me, and i personally dislike Vanguards. Thats why i tend to look for Assault fleets)
Basically the current Griefing intends to stop the overly big money-flow from Vanguard-Blitzing. Why not simply make 8 10 man fleets and heavily contest the Vanguard systems instead of killing the MOM? It would get Money into their pockets, while still grieging the income.
(BTW: Darius did Incursions for 1 1/2 Months prior to this "mess" i-¦m intrigued how much he made) |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
177
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Posted - 2012.01.24 11:05:00 -
[274] - Quote
Sakura Shiroi wrote:Why not simply make 8 10 man fleets and heavily contest the Vanguard systems instead of killing the MOM? It would get Money into their pockets, while still grieging the income.
- They don't boycott incursions for farming ISK for their own.
- You don't boycott something by joining it.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
920
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Posted - 2012.01.24 11:52:00 -
[275] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:- You don't boycott something by joining it.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Darius and company aren't boycotting Incursions, they are Interdicting at best. They are taking part in the Incursion activity in order to force it to reach its conclusion faster, to deprive other people of the resource.
A boycott implies abstinence.
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Aramatheia
Traveler 52 D-Collective
15
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Posted - 2012.01.24 12:43:00 -
[276] - Quote
if we want to get real serious why not just delete vanguards. I wouldnt complain. Sure i ran them for a bit back in the day, i made 2 billion as a 2-3 month old character which is pretty crazy. I am a new player i dont have alts mains or whatever. What you see here is my eve career to date.
I fly assaults and hq's now. THe isk is far far lower, where i would make 2-300m per day in VG's i make 2-300m isk per week in assaults if that. It takes me better part of a month to pay for a plex but its fun. You have 39 other ppl to talk to more chance of making friends and as a logi its just better!
However even most assault/hq sites are in my opinion too easy now. The content has clearly been out long enough for people to master the spawns and strats. Ship fittings are "cookie cutter" now cause its been the same for so long.
To combat that sites need to be more random, things need to appear on grid that no one expected (im not talking about pvpers either lol but gankers are part of eve so carry on). I've said this else where but that stupid tower kill hq site needs spawns during the tower kill. Also add a timer in which the tower must be killed so eventually you may need to have some ships effectively tanking sansha with logis on them or else the fleet will be picked off. Maybe also if CCP has the manpower to create some brand new site types, so theres more variation. Less chance of getting 5 OTA's in a vg system for example.
Im just brainstorming here but knocking off incursiongs in 5 hours or making them nullsec zones isnt the answer. Making the effort worth the isk is something i support totally, as an incursioner, who depends on incursions to plex up each month. I'm willing to fight random spawns, willing to have sansha noobs neut and jam the hell out of my scimi |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
19
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Posted - 2012.01.29 16:03:00 -
[277] - Quote
Then go to Ani constellation in Metropolis and stop the incursion there. It has been at 0% debuffs for about 4 days now. Stop the farmers. |
ShipToaster
125
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Posted - 2012.01.29 16:17:00 -
[278] - Quote
Sakura Shiroi wrote:http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2011/CSM_CCP_Mettings_7-9_12_2011.pdf
Page 7 Says: "In general the EVE economy is in good shape. All macro indicators are within acceptable parameters, fluctuations are minimal and participation in the economy is going up. Most online games experience constant inflation, where the developers are constantly adding new items at higher prices which end up with devaluing both the currency used in the game and older items. EVE shows a different behavior, where over a few years there was a continued deflation (following the introduction of tech II invention) but over the past year and a half there has been good stability with a mild inflation (around 1% per month)."
People need to learn to interpret CCP speak better.
Over twelve percent inflation per annum in an economy where you cannot protect your money by investing it is pretty bad. Incursion math? part 1 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=678400#post678400 part 2 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=698871#post698871 |
LF9000
NO TAX QUITE LAX
2
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Posted - 2012.01.30 01:24:00 -
[279] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:Sakura Shiroi wrote:http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2011/CSM_CCP_Mettings_7-9_12_2011.pdf
Page 7 Says: "In general the EVE economy is in good shape. All macro indicators are within acceptable parameters, fluctuations are minimal and participation in the economy is going up. Most online games experience constant inflation, where the developers are constantly adding new items at higher prices which end up with devaluing both the currency used in the game and older items. EVE shows a different behavior, where over a few years there was a continued deflation (following the introduction of tech II invention) but over the past year and a half there has been good stability with a mild inflation (around 1% per month)." People need to learn to interpret CCP speak better. Over twelve percent inflation per annum in an economy where you cannot protect your money by investing it is pretty bad.
As opposed to deflation which is a sign of a terrible economy? 12% annually is nothing. Inflation is one of the main incentives to invest (other than to have more money) |
Spineker
139
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Posted - 2012.01.30 01:33:00 -
[280] - Quote
12% inflation is nothing? Huh?
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Yoshite McLulzypants
People called Romanes they go the house
3
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Posted - 2012.01.30 02:13:00 -
[281] - Quote
Jeez guys could it be that maybe, just maybe, they are doing this purely for the lulz? |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
27
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Posted - 2012.01.30 02:31:00 -
[282] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:Sakura Shiroi wrote:http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2011/CSM_CCP_Mettings_7-9_12_2011.pdf
Page 7 Says: "In general the EVE economy is in good shape. All macro indicators are within acceptable parameters, fluctuations are minimal and participation in the economy is going up. Most online games experience constant inflation, where the developers are constantly adding new items at higher prices which end up with devaluing both the currency used in the game and older items. EVE shows a different behavior, where over a few years there was a continued deflation (following the introduction of tech II invention) but over the past year and a half there has been good stability with a mild inflation (around 1% per month)." People need to learn to interpret CCP speak better. Over twelve percent inflation per annum in an economy where you cannot protect your money by investing it is pretty bad.
Its a game. You can make 20% a week via active management of suprisingly large stakes. Enough to pay for PVP or whatever. If you are sitting on 40 billion isk, then I do not care if its effectively 35 billion isk in a years time, and neither should CCP. Compared to deliberate blizzard expansion mudflation, that is extremely mild.
Also as a non-cash producer (I primarily either manufacture stuff or explore for deadspace modules), the cash price of stuff is largely meaningless, in that I produce non cash items, sell them for cash, and then buy non cash items, and therefore the price doesn't matter, so long as the price of the 2 objects I sell and buy, maintain their relativity - which they do.
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Spineker
140
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Posted - 2012.01.30 02:38:00 -
[283] - Quote
Haha strange |
Qual
Eggers Den
13
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Posted - 2012.01.30 10:18:00 -
[284] - Quote
So Darius & Co are playing the incursions as they where designed to be played?
Big deal... |
Levija Saplina
Sweet Capsuleer Tears
70
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Posted - 2012.01.30 12:06:00 -
[285] - Quote
Qual wrote:So Darius & Co are playing the incursions as they where designed to be played?
Big deal...
This.
In the end Darius and his little friends end up crying more and shedding more sweet tears than the carebears themselves.
Not a single ******* care was given. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
183
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Posted - 2012.01.31 01:17:00 -
[286] - Quote
Levija Saplina wrote:
Not a single ******* care was given.
Except for the 14 pages of caring in this thread.
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Romeo Deluxe
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.02.01 21:05:00 -
[287] - Quote
Interesting reading but as a fairly new player that has experienced only a small portion of the game to date I'm at a loss to really judge this, even if just for myself. I have yet to participate in an Incursion.
Has anyone considered lockout timers? Other games use that to pace the speed at which players can farm/abuse content. Maybe a lockout timer only on receiving payout? That is, some people can continue to fly in Incursions to help others but they themselves get no payout (limited payout vs full payout, diminishing payout, a permanent diminishing payout per player, etc?).
I hadn't seen anyone mention that so I thought I would throw it out there for your consideration. |
OninoTimmo
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
31
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Posted - 2012.02.02 06:38:00 -
[288] - Quote
I don't get the point of killing the mothership sites. The incursion ends but a new one pops up somewhere else in high sec, right? So that's a delay of just 30-60 minutes before people are farming isk again vOv. It's a slight inconvenience at worst. |
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