what does it matter how someone plays this game its a sandbox game. I dunt understand all the hate being tossed at some of the players just based on how thay play the game. I have never once done incursions because i have never wanted to. It seem s that null sec players are forceing the way thay play on the rest of eve.

And you seem, to be helping. Eve is a Sandbox game you are free to play it your way take away that freedom you take away part of the heart and soul if EvE onine.IF that is your goal you have failed as a CSM member.

Soon you will not be able to count on having an incursion available to you 23/7. We will be killing the rest of the MS all at one time in a few days if negotiations with the BLT and TDF leaders fall apart.

We expect CCP to step in and spawn more/change the mechanic that makes them spawn.

After killing/forcing the MS to be killed, there were 700 in public incursion channel. So we made a fake logi fleet and got @15 BS killed by luring them and not repping them once aggro came in.

I am interested in hearing from a broader audience than Crime and Punishment about our actions.

Approve or disapprove and why?

Hopefully every single one involved are blacklisted to start. A bunch of burned logis wont be of much use in hisec in the future.

Hopefully every single one involved are blacklisted to start. A bunch of burned logis wont be of much use in hisec in the future.

Banned from what? The MOM's getting taken down ASAP. Banned from twiddling your thumbs in the most elietist chats in eve. I'm sure your members will be devestated.

what does it matter how someone plays this game its a sandbox game. I dunt understand all the hate being tossed at some of the players just based on how thay play the game. I have never once done incursions because i have never wanted to. It seem s that null sec players are forceing the way thay play on the rest of eve. And you seem, to be helping. Eve is a Sandbox game you are free to play it your way take away that freedom you take away part of the heart and soul if EvE onine.IF that is your goal you have failed as a CSM member.

I have reading back on your posts OP and if it was true about the support you got in hisec than I hope that blacklist grows by leaps and bounds.

Folks people like the OP are using your so called feeling towards incursions and their runners to serve their own goals. Which is to drive people back into their CTAs. They don't give a DAMN about you in my opinion. You helped 00 overlords become more powerful and burned your characters to any good shiny fleet in the future. Congrats fools!

Nurf high sec is not three dimensional because what about low/null incursions or Sov combat site spawners or Sov complex spawners are those not free isk. Are you saying high sec haveing this content is more damageing then someone sitting in null farming the sites spawners make. In incursions you get only isk and lp not isk and deadspace/faction items that make you even more isk.

Nurfing content in high sec is nurfing high sec because its high sec content.
If it was really about incursions then it would be all incursions not just high sec ones.
If its really about Pve payouts then what about SOV pve spawning upgrades. Seams alot of high pay out pve is being left out dont you think.

I am also quite sure there are 0.0 leaders who would want their members to actually be in 0.0 instead of jump cloning away in hi sec (few have top pimp ship high SP alts). When I lived in 0.0 sec one of the important duties was to patrol our systems and be "present" 24/7. If half players jump away to hi sec, not only they won't patrol, but they will also be unavailable in case of attacks, operations and so on.

Soon you will not be able to count on having an incursion available to you 23/7.

You idiots will temporally drive people back into LVL4s but I hope you don't expect people to flock to your BS gatehump or structure bash CTA because you destroyed a way for people to group in hisec.

GET Yer butt out of incursions and defend mah MOON GOOZ!!!

Removing opportunities that empower members is a big goal of multiple nullsec alliances. Members were actually daring to want more of the pie and less forced CTAS and the alliances are striking back.

Just reading the OP and supportive comments (and in C&P threads) makes me physically sick. The feeling that EVE has more than its fair shared of sociopaths that had me unsub so many times before. And "wtf did I resub, its as bad as has always been".

You're only a victim if you choose to be one.
This is a game where people can do what they want, you should empower yourself instead of QQing about people doing things you don't approve of. Or find another game.

Good. Natural selection at work. Fewer competitions = more isk for the rest of us. "Public Incursion Blacklist" roaster is booming, now with corps and alliances instead of individuals.

There were 950 in constellation in Kisune last night. There is world outside BTL Pub and DTF; people will come and crowd and contest and die to suicide fleets. Shiny fleets were running with 12 and only 2 logis just to get some payout considering how contested everything was and will be.

Btw. There is no apparent inflation in EVE. Only price rising is price of PLEX. Ships and mods are stable or slowly bouncing up and down depending on events in nullsec. Huge part of PLEX price fluctuations are market speculators. "PLEX for remaps", "PLEX for AUR", "PLEX for fanfest"... whenever there is a hit of something like that PLEX exploded.

Good. Natural selection at work. Fewer competitions = more isk for the rest of us. "Public Incursion Blacklist" roaster is booming, now with corps and alliances instead of individuals.

I am interested in hearing from a broader audience than Crime and Punishment about our actions.

Approve or disapprove and why?

It reminds CVA blacklisting half the universe because the cousin of the friend of the corp of someone's dad did something bad 3 years before. It did not serve them well.

Also, good luck blacklisting the average 9 alts player.

Maybe i dont see the bigger picture so only commenting on what i gleen from these forums, but what effect does it have on your experience of playing eve, your game, that high sec players are farming a particular event and earning lots of isk?

OH MY GOD - LOOK AT ALL THOSE TEARS
What have I done?

Thing is, you and Darius and so many others are just terrible persons. You can say you are doing it for trolling or for lulz... but so near beneath those words your sociopathy shines like a nova. Causing injury and grief to others for personal profit and even worse for amusement isn't fun or trolling, its sociopathic behavior.

I approve heartily! Though I had hoped to one day farm Incursions myself, I think they shouldn't be nearly as farmable as they are. I doubt this will change anything on CCP's side, but I think they're already looking at making some changes anyhow.

On another note, I wholeheartedly disapprove of your slippery grasp on the English language...how did you ever make CSM again?

The bigger picture is this: despite low and 0.0 sec incursions nominally pay out better, low sec and 0.0 players come to hi sec (or jump clone to hi sec) to farm hi sec incursions.

Even former rich WH players abandon WHs to switch into doing hi sec incursions.


Now, the reasons are many but I suppose the main one is this:

Low sec and 0.0 incursions pay more but must be done on far worse ships and T2 fittings therefore they end up being done at more risk and MUCH less efficiency than high sec ones. Therefore the low sec / 0.0 dwellers do their math and all come to hi sec. Furthermore, unlike hi sec, the more you stay at a given site, the exponentially higher the probability of being found by aggressors.

This automagically promotes hi sec incursions as THE way to farm ISK. Expecially when made not to end.
In the past, this happened for other game features (i.e. L4) and CCP used some hard nerfs, multiple times.

Your bait fleets were "busted" immediately, and remain to be epically obvious traps. But with apparent lack of incursions people are desperate to get into fleets and feed you. How many alts did you recycle advertising in BTL and DTF? Fifty? Sixty?

And you really didn't do anything new. Grief fleets were there the moment incursions started. Without Darius'es help to turn Incursions into scarce commodity you couldn't have done anything.


Thing is, you and Darius and so many others are just terrible persons. You can say you are doing it for trolling or for lulz... but so near beneath those words your sociopathy shines like a nova. Causing injury and grief to others for personal profit and even worse for amusement isn't fun or trolling, its sociopathic behavior.

[...]
By doing this thay are Telling you have to play EvE online this way or we will not let you play. It defeats the point of making the game a sandbox game. Like i said remove the feedom and you remove part of the heart and soul of EvE.

From what I've seen, Incursion-bears are some of the most sanctimonious, up-themselves, elitist cunts in the game--as bad as sov-nulltards, and in some ways worse--and they could use a good kicking for that.

Your bait fleets were "busted" immediately, and remain to be epically obvious traps. But with apparent lack of incursions people are desperate to get into fleets and feed you. How many alts did you recycle advertising in BTL and DTF? Fifty? Sixty?

And you really didn't do anything new. Grief fleets were there the moment incursions started. Without Darius'es help to turn Incursions into scarce commodity you couldn't have done anything.


Thing is, you and Darius and so many others are just terrible persons. You can say you are doing it for trolling or for lulz... but so near beneath those words your sociopathy shines like a nova. Causing injury and grief to others for personal profit and even worse for amusement isn't fun or trolling, its sociopathic behavior.

You're new here, aren't you?

You just deny isk to newer players (or newcomers to incursions) and are forcing them to stay in highsec doing L4s.

I have reading back on your posts OP and if it was true about the support you got in hisec than I hope that blacklist grows by leaps and bounds.

Folks people like the OP are using your so called feeling towards incursions and their runners to serve their own goals. Which is to drive people back into their CTAs. They don't give a DAMN about you in my opinion. You helped 00 overlords become more powerful and burned your characters to any good shiny fleet in the future. Congrats fools!

Edit. No one is doing lowsec and null incursions. They just despawn at full red bars after 5 days or a week. This is true for so much cases that few exceptions are irrelevant. They could pay 10x as much as they pay now (which is already 45% more than highsec ones) and you'd still have a microscopic number of people doing them.

Just reading the OP and supportive comments (and in C&P threads) makes me physically sick. The feeling that EVE has more than its fair shared of sociopaths that had me unsub so many times before. And "wtf did I resub, its as bad as has always been".

There is no exploit of any kind involved with highsec incursions. Nothing. CCP made them to stay for a week and despawn if no one kills mom before that. Of course please keep them alive as long as possible and do sites that farm best isk. Its only reasonable option.

People without IRL socipathic tendencies would not indulge and enjoy in deeply sociopathic behavior in a virtual environment.

You are so wrong its hilarious. Go cry all the way back to wow.

Edit: Also this - "If what D3 et al are doing keeps mewling gold-farmer parasites like you out of our game, then I am even more for it."

This is what I do for fun:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12083444

Sooooo, you killed a probably-overconfident-and-sloppy Dramiel pilot (a lot of Drami pilots are like that) in a post-Crucible destroyer.

Big.
*******.
Whoop.

Because kill-mail e-peenzor-waving is a sign of being a real 1337-PvP'er, amirite?

People without IRL socipathic tendencies would not indulge and enjoy in deeply sociopathic behavior in a virtual environment.

You are so wrong its hilarious. Go cry all the way back to wow.

Edit: Also this - "If what D3 et al are doing keeps mewling ISK-farmer parasites like you out of our game, then I am even more for it."

I shot a pod that was afk on a gate today in Amarr.

Guess I'm a sociopath right?

When you are putting survivability of shiny fits into hands of strangers blacklisting is 100% necessary. Leaders of all Incursion running corps have such absurd amounts of ISK that in the end they will be the ones who can easiest just shrug and go "was nice till it lasted".

some bullshit post projecting his rage and anger at the only people his alliance can take on, highsec bears

No isk without risk, they say....

Ok, how about this then: we stop moon goo in null - sorry, the moons ran out.
Good news: wh space now has good.

Why?

Goo in null is money for nothing.

WH's are much harder to hold, so more risk, and thus there should be more isk.

This way we also get all the petrified powerblocs in null something to live and die for - the challenge to secure strategic wh access instead of the current static ressource allocation and endless isk pumps.

Imagine all the fun and games!

No isk without risk, they say....

Ok, how about this then: we stop moon goo in null - sorry, the moons ran out.
Good news: wh space now has good.

Why?

Goo in null is money for nothing.

WH's are much harder to hold, so more risk, and thus there should be more isk.

This way we also get all the petrified powerblocs in null something to live and die for - the challenge to secure strategic wh access instead of the current static ressource allocation and endless isk pumps.

Imagine all the fun and games!

Approve:

This low-risk ISK-farming has gotten right ******* stupid, and... stuff.

Rage is when you make troll thread to whine about other people making internet spaceship moniez.

U MAD BRO?

Love the tears. Null tears = Best tears.

Not to you specifically, but more generally....

Thanks for the less than insightful posts, though not really that surprising coming from nullsec-based carebears with a penchant for being being hypocrites. ISK faucets galore and a level of safety that's typically unavailable in high sec or low sec. (If this confuses you then I just have to assume you're new here.) You're nothing if not predictable. God forbid the highsec crowd get a new toy... the pissing & moaning just never stops.


*sips null tears and smiles*

Later...

No. Not at all. If you check my KB stats you will see I'm terrible at PVP and diaf a lot without any gain. Reason I'm posting with my main and linking KB is to prove to you that I have ventured outside of highsec; and that I have engaged in real PVP.
But you can easily just stretch label carebear to anyone who is above -5 and/or has less than 10 (or 100, or 1000) solo kills.

Is pissing in rl sandboxes and breaking other kid's toys bad and socially unacceptable behavior? Yes ofc.

What difference is there then? If your only joy in a game is causing inconvenience suffering and loss to other players? If you weren't having IRL sociopathic tendencies such a thing would not be attractive or fun to you; it is simply not how a completely healthy person would think.

You are drawing satisfaction from causing (emotional and mental) injury to other human beings. Why does the medium in which this is done matter?

Love the tears. Null tears = Best tears.

Not to you specifically, but more generally....

Thanks for the less than insightful posts, though not really that surprising coming from nullsec-based carebears with a penchant for being hypocrites. ISK faucets galore and a level of safety that's typically unavailable in high sec or low sec. (If this confuses you then I just have to assume you're new here.) You're nothing if not predictable. God forbid the highsec crowd get a new toy... the pissing & moaning just never stops.


*sips null tears and smiles*

Later...

Is pissing in rl sandboxes and breaking other kid's toys bad and socially unacceptable behavior? Yes ofc.

What difference is there then? If your only joy in a game is causing inconvenience suffering and loss to other players? If you weren't having IRL sociopathic tendencies such a thing would not be attractive or fun to you; it is simply not how a completely healthy person would think.

You are drawing satisfaction from causing (emotional and mental) injury to other human beings. Why does the medium in which this is done matter?

So its not ok to blacklist entire alliance if leader of that alliance is trying to inconvenience you as much as possible?

One again. Why am I a parasite? Of whom and how?

I dont run incursions so have no preference right now, so im sat on the fence.

I will ask this though, why? Why are you attempting to prevent high sec incursion runners from doing the same thing that low sec people, and null sec people do already, but for more reward? I understand the risk vs reward premise, which is why low/null incursions pay higher, so in the bigger picture you want to keep low/null incursions as they are ( already higher payouts ) but stop high sec players doing the same?

If so, i'd say that was pretty hypocritical.

Maybe i dont see the bigger picture so only commenting on what i gleen from these forums, but what effect does it have on your experience of playing eve, your game, that high sec players are farming a particular event and earning lots of isk?

So people who like to be cast in roles as murders, rapists, or all-around bad guys in movies must like doing that stuff irl ?

*An awful lot of ranting*

At best you made a few battleship explode. Things like this where done by PK'ers in Ultima Online in dungeons, this is no different.

CCP goes bankrupt, EA or Sony buys EVE and we get a game where forums are actually moderated and in game griefing is bannable offense. Yes it would be a extremely boring EVE; but also soo much less stressful and annoying one.

i wanted to start getting into incursions, but all this griefing scares me. are scout sites being targeted? maybe i can do those without being attacked. missions are boring and any time i leave high sec i get ganked. not sure what to do.

Soon you will not be able to count on having an incursion available to you 23/7. We will be killing the rest of the MS all at one time in a few days if negotiations with the BLT and TDF leaders fall apart.

We expect CCP to step in and spawn more/change the mechanic that makes them spawn.

After killing/forcing the MS to be killed, there were 700 in public incursion channel. So we made a fake logi fleet and got @15 BS killed by luring them and not repping them once aggro came in.

I am interested in hearing from a broader audience than Crime and Punishment about our actions.

Approve or disapprove and why?

If CCP wanted Incursions to be completed quickly why would have they given them a week long lifespan?

Completely different thing. Problem is you are not really "playing a role of bandit". Problem is you screwing with game of other paying customers. Incursions interdiction is pure meta-gaming and that is farthest you can get from in context behaviour or role playing. You are going all out in effort to make game-play as inconvenient and miserable for other players as you can.

Besides in movies good guys win 99% of time while in EVE it has always been the opposite. Because it is you who take internet spaceships too seriously an you spend enormous amounts of time planning such a event where your only goal is to prevent other people playing the game or make their game time as miserable as possible. And when it comes to taking internet spaceships seriously.... how more serious can it get from nullsec leaders with their steady IRL income from RMT shops to whom they lend their space.

Once again. You are not doing this for in game profit or for your "in game role-play". You are doing it to inconvenient other players and feed your feeble little souls on other people's discomfort and trouble.

I'm so bored of this discussion over all these years. I actually hope you win and CCP foolishly listens to all your absurd little demands. Remove highsec incursions and L4s all together. Instant 70 or 80% drop in subs; CCP goes bankrupt, EA or Sony buys EVE and we get a game where forums are actually moderated and in game griefing is bannable offense. Yes it would be a extremely boring EVE; but also soo much less stressful and annoying one.

That's the whole point. Its just a bloody game; people play it to have fun. If your only fun is to constantly and consistently frack with game-play and fun of other people you are being a real jerk to real people, you are just doing it isnide of a virtual environment.

CCP is notorious for adding features to the game without accounting for even half the potential repercussions of said game features.

It is pretty much impossible to predict all the repercussions of any given new ruleset in an already complex system, which will be bent, poked, twisted and abused by tens of thousands determined and creative human minds at their prime.

EVE players are nerds. Nerds are clever. A huge mass of clever nerds interacting structurally and chaotically creates emergent gameplay, making New Eden what it is. CCP not only can't prevent this from happening, neither they would want to prevent it from happening.

Good god! Huge mass of basement dwellers who take internet spaceships too seriously, getting all giggly off thinking they ruined someone else's day, thus forcing them back to their real lives that said basement dwellers lack.

I wish I owned a basement... :(

Focusing the discussion on Incursions, CSM brought up the point that Incursions are unbalanced in that the easier levels of Incursions are more profitable than the more difficult levels GÇô something that CCP has noted as
well and is working on adjusting. The full details of that adjustment are not known at this time as there are
several options available. And the issue is not just monetary, the gameplay is also becoming too predictable,
and with this predictability, the risk is reduced. Players applying cookie-cutter solutions to the sites, and running
some in just a few minutes, is a problem that needs to be addressed. Both the CSM and CCP agree on that
Incursions are good in terms of gameplay and ISK payout, but the time for adjustments based on player
behavior data is at hand GÇô adjusting the distribution of the sites and adjusting the payout being highest on the
list. But this is a positive problem, these issues are cropping up because there are so many people running
Incursions. Such changes will be another example of the iterative approach CCP is committing to.

What i am about to say is to all parties.
I think the level of hypocracy coming from the CSMs lately is disapointing.
You are supose to stand for the overal of the game not just the pvp section.
There are no lack of people in 0.0.
The problem is when you set blue everyone around you then ofcource you have no one to shoot at.
There is a negative effect to blue everyone around you!

There are plenty of people that do not play this game for the pvp. From my part pvp is it the most fun part of this game but to others its not.
The Mittani abused his postion as a CSM to initiate a war vs all mining barges in high sec.
Now Darius is also abusing his position to do this.
As a CSM you should not be forcing your type of gaming into the rest of eve nor should you be using your position to carry out your private vandettas OR you will fail as CSM.

CSM minutes are out. Check the latest DevBlog.

All please check parts about PLEX prices, inflation and Incursions. See that CSM and CCP agree that isk is not related to PLEX prices; that VGs may need a minor nerf or added challenge and that other Incursion sites need a boost. And that incursions as they are are good for game and should stay.

Edit.

For Christ's sake. They actually agreed that Moms get vulnerable too fast and that Incursions should last longer but have a lower respawn rate!

So mr Darius III; how come that you as CSM took a nearly completely different position on Incursions than one you have in game? Hypocrisy much? Trying to be buddy buddy with CCP while pissing on their playerbase while they don't look?

The Sansha mothership is a perfectly legitimate PVE war target.

/thread

You will also find that these nefarious nabobs of low and null will not jump out of your computer, kick your sister, and molest the dog.

If CCP wanted Incursions to be completed quickly why would have they given them a week long lifespan?

Is pissing in rl sandboxes and breaking other kid's toys bad and socially unacceptable behavior? Yes ofc.

What difference is there then? If your only joy in a game is causing inconvenience suffering and loss to other players? If you weren't having IRL sociopathic tendencies such a thing would not be attractive or fun to you; it is simply not how a completely healthy person would think.

You are drawing satisfaction from causing (emotional and mental) injury to other human beings. Why does the medium in which this is done matter?

[quote=Dzajic] [Plus a bunch of moralising based on a completely false premise...]

Just read the relevant prats from CSM minutes please.

Good god! Huge mass of basement dwellers who take internet spaceships too seriously, getting all giggly off thinking they ruined someone else's day, thus forcing them back to their real lives that said basement dwellers lack.

Let it be known that I, basement dweller, am MAD, and must respond as such.

I read it but it didn't say anything about sociopathy so its not really relevant to this thread.

You're not relevant to this thread?

The Mittani abused his postion as a CSM to initiate a war vs all mining barges in high sec.
Now Darius is also abusing his position to do this.
As a CSM you should not be forcing your type of gaming into the rest of eve nor should you be using your position to carry out your private vandettas OR you will fail as CSM.

So mr Darius III; how come that you as CSM took a nearly completely different position on Incursions than one you have in game? Hypocrisy much? Trying to be buddy buddy with CCP while pissing on their playerbase while they don't look?

What i am about to say is to all parties.
I think the level of hypocracy coming from the CSMs lately is disapointing.
You are supose to stand for the overal of the game not just the pvp section.
There are no lack of people in 0.0.
The problem is when you set blue everyone around you then ofcource you have no one to shoot at.
There is a negative effect to blue everyone around you!

There are plenty of people that do not play this game for the pvp. From my part pvp is it the most fun part of this game but to others its not.
The Mittani abused his postion as a CSM to initiate a war vs all mining barges in high sec.
Now Darius is also abusing his position to do this.
As a CSM you should not be forcing your type of gaming into the rest of eve nor should you be using your position to carry out your private vandettas OR you will fail as CSM.

I read the CSM notes with respect to Incursion sites.

The first thing that is interesting is that the notes are not complete spinless nerf-herding. I'll comment a little.

In the first paragraph, Vanguard sites are accused of being to easy. There is a lot to be said about Vanguard sites and their difficulty. However, it would be difficult to make them harder because lots of the toughness is in getting the 10 people together to do them. If it was as easy to find and lead 20 random people as it is to find and lead 10, the preference would be for Assaults.

The Forth paragraph is about the Nation's Consolidation Network which has a cruiser's gate and a battleship's gate. The CSM has told CCP that this is very unpopular because to do it some people have to reship into cruisers.

Very shiny fleets can shoot DDD, but unshiny fleets have to shoot AAD AAD D or some similar variation.

If you made it this far. We're probably going to see Incursion sites changed to make the ships within them more probabilistic. Vanguard and also the Nation's Consolidation Network could see significant changes to their mechanics.

Edit. No one is doing lowsec and null incursions. They just despawn at full red bars after 5 days or a week. This is true for so much cases that few exceptions are irrelevant. They could pay 10x as much as they pay now (which is already 45% more than highsec ones) and you'd still have a microscopic number of people doing them.

First I wanted to rage so I walked away... that I cooled down and loled, and that I loled again.

this bad thread

And nullsec players get it. You highsec players don't. You think you should live in some invuln bubble overheated by your tears to 100% resists.. delicate flowers that shall not be stomped upon because you 'pay to play this game like everyone else' and you believe that cause you wish to be highsec mains, your somehow different. And that's the thing.. you're not different. A nullsec main and a highsec main, wh, low.. whatever. You're all PLAYERS of EVE. I believe those outside of highsec get this..

Theres a lot of misinformation in this thread. While it is true I don't mind griefing carebears I also want people to be happy and make money. My motivation is to publicize the issues I have with incursions currently as well as have fun and get some lifesaving tears.

Incursion money is not balanced with the rest of Eve. Incursion money is not balanced within the incursions themselves. The vanguard sites need a nerf and the assault sites need a buff in payouts. I would like to see more LP's for killing the mom. Also incursions being more spread out would be in order IMO.

Everyone seems to be saying that I want to end incursion availability for everyone.This is 100% false. We discussed finishing all sites and decided against it. We did this partly so we could grief the bears in the existing incursion because it would be so overpopulated it would be easy to sucker people in to our non-repping logi fleet. Also we left it open so people could do their thing and enjoy eve and make some money, and because I was paid 500m. If it was all about the tears, we would have finished all sites.

While it is kinda cool everyone thinks it is ME ME ME really Krissada is the main guy. I just get some guys and try to act cool.

I plan on running as the incursion candidate, I have demonstrated knowledge and ability, as well as a desire to help my hisec brothers out. I will vote for FAIR rebalancing of incursions and to bring risk VS Reward more into line with everything else. (for those of you who may have missed it-I like to troll too).

People have literally come out of the woodwork to help out. Special thanks to Cigarellos for donating 10 Typhoons for the fleet and T2 fittings for same including trimarks. Woot! Double thanks to Kill it With Fire and Skunkworks for making it happen and again to Krissada for being the glue and inspiration and main promulgator. Good times were had by all..well all of us anyway. Look for video/audio tomorrow D3

Whilst I can't help but agree with some of this, I also can't help but despise people who feel they can force their views on others by such means. If you have a valid point to make (and you may well have, to a degree) then stick to the forums and CSM etc, and leave other people alone to play the game.

Whilst I can't help but agree with some of this, I also can't help but despise people who feel they can force their views on others by such means. If you have a valid point to make (and you may well have, to a degree) then stick to the forums and CSM etc, and leave other people alone to play the game.

My own feeling is that High-Sec has long needed something like incursions, and whilst they may need a little tweaking, I see no good reason that the self-important 0.0 corps/alliances out there who believe they are the most important thing in the Eve universe, should have any right to dictate how it plays, to others.

I do believe you've vastly underestimated the percentage of people that use incursions to fund pvp.

Also, just out of curiosity....how do you make isk?

Theres a lot of misinformation in this thread. While it is true I don't mind griefing carebears I also want people to be happy and make money. My motivation is to publicize the issues I have with incursions currently as well as have fun and get some lifesaving tears.

Incursion money is not balanced with the rest of Eve. Incursion money is not balanced within the incursions themselves. The vanguard sites need a nerf and the assault sites need a buff in payouts. I would like to see more LP's for killing the mom. Also incursions being more spread out would be in order IMO.

Everyone seems to be saying that I want to end incursion availability for everyone.This is 100% false. We discussed finishing all sites and decided against it. We did this partly so we could grief the bears in the existing incursion because it would be so overpopulated it would be easy to sucker people in to our non-repping logi fleet. Also we left it open so people could do their thing and enjoy eve and make some money, and because I was paid 500m. If it was all about the tears, we would have finished all sites.

While it is kinda cool everyone thinks it is ME ME ME really Krissada is the main guy. I just get some guys and try to act cool.

I plan on running as the incursion candidate, I have demonstrated knowledge and ability, as well as a desire to help my hisec brothers out. I will vote for FAIR rebalancing of incursions and to bring risk VS Reward more into line with everything else. (for those of you who may have missed it-I like to troll too).

I read the CSM notes with respect to Incursion sites.

The first thing that is interesting is that the notes are not complete spinless nerf-herding. I'll comment a little.

In the first paragraph, Vanguard sites are accused of being to easy. There is a lot to be said about Vanguard sites and their difficulty. However, it would be difficult to make them harder because lots of the toughness is in getting the 10 people together to do them. If it was as easy to find and lead 20 random people as it is to find and lead 10, the preference would be for Assaults.

The Second and Third paragraphs are about making sites vary more in order to make them more unpredictable and thus more risky. The CSM actually didn't want too much changes to alpha in sites, noting that bombers in Mothership sites can one-shot a logistics ship now.

The Forth paragraph is about the Nation's Consolidation Network which has a cruiser's gate and a battleship's gate. The CSM has told CCP that this is very unpopular because to do it some people have to reship into cruisers.

The Fifth paragraph is about bugs and exploits. I have not personally seen any bugs in my scant incursions running time, but there are a few things that might not be working as intended. Interestingly enough it's two out of three Vanguards.
In the Nation's Mining Colony, it is intended for the players to mine the ore and then use it to destroy the refinery. However what has been happening is that there is extra ore and some people have been saving it (Particularly people who run in the 'shiny fleets') So they finish the Sansha fleet, then use their stored ore to actually destroy the facility.
In the Override Transfer Array, it is intended that someone hack the Override Transfer Arrays in order to defeat the Sansha Logistics and thus finish the site. However, what people have been doing is simply shooting the Deltotes, which even with the Transfer Array support are still fragile enough to defeat. Very shiny fleets can shoot DDD, but unshiny fleets have to shoot AAD AAD D or some similar variation.

The Sixth paragraph is about Site Competition and the number of sites. CCP wanted more sites and the CSM did not.

The Seventh paragraph is about timing, the CSM believes that incursions end too soon, specifically the mothership appears to soon in high-sec. I wonder if opinions are still this?

The Eighth paragraph is about why Incursions always seem to happen in Amarrian space. CCP says they happen there because if you pick a high-sec constellation at random, the probability is greatest that it is an Amarrian constellation.

The benefits of Incursions as a social activity was praised in the closing paragraphs. The CSM said that improvements to Eve Voice, Tagging of enemies on the overview, and Fleet Command tools (especially with respect to knowing how many people are in your fleet) Would be Incursion boosts.

If you made it this far. We're probably going to see Incursion sites changed to make the ships within them more probabilistic. Vanguard and also the Nation's Consolidation Network could see significant changes to their mechanics.

A longish post

Sorry mate. CCP and CSM had had these talks over a month ago. CCP and the voice of community (CSM) have agreed on those things and they will be implemented soon(tm)/ Changes according to what is agreed in minutes are likely already under testing. Yes it will be overall nerf to incursions income; especially if they hardcode so that you can't blitz any sites any longer. Though ti would end up being stupidly unbalanced with Legion fleets continuing to blitz NCOs and other 2 taking ages to finish.

Ofc for maximum lulz these changes would affect all kinds of Incurions and not just high-sec so it will murder isk/hr income for everyone doing them, no matter where. Well at least it may bring attention seekers off our backs.
Even if it ends not paying much more money than L4s, even for shiny fleets, it will of course remain 10000x more interesting than doing L4s

Edit. With or without blitzing shiny fleet will do sites faster as they will have more DPS on field and also better tank.

What evidence do you have of them "testing" this? I heard of nothing on Sisi.

Sorry mate. CCP and CSM had had these talks over a month ago. CCP and the voice of community (CSM) have agreed on those things and they will be implemented soon(tm)/ Changes according to what is agreed in minutes are likely already under testing. .

Until it gets to Sisi or announced it really isn't meaningful testing.

I want to see what CCP announces. If they limit vanguard nerfing to just forcing them to be completed it would be ok. However it is obvious that folks like darius in my opinon want them nuked from orbit.

Until it gets to Sisi or announced it really isn't meaningful testing.

I want to see what CCP announces. If they limit vanguard nerfing to just forcing them to be completed it would be ok. However it is obvious that folks like darius in my opinon want them nuked from orbit.

Can we have a vote as to who is dumber, Endeavor or Dzajic?

This is a checkbox vote so you are allowed to check all the boxes.

I find you to be more annoying than anyone else in this thread.

Can we have a vote as to who is dumber, Endeavor or Dzajic?

This is a checkbox vote so you are allowed to check all the boxes.

endeavor isnt dumb, theres a post up there about darius that hits the nail right on the head, hell check his own post history and read between the lines. start from the post where he says brick squad have split. the anger at not being able to control corp/alliance members them blaming and attacking incursions instead of looking to see what was wrong in the first place. i'll spell it out -treat your members better and they wouldnt flip you the bird and stay in hi sec doing incursions.

anyway i wouldn't worry too much about it, ccp know how valuable incursions are and they won't just take anyones word that they need a nerf/buff, they have their own people out there running incursions and are gathering opinions and solutions internally.

edit: one good thing i will say about darius and co is that they dont like something and they are doing something about it in game, if incursion runners dont like it they need to balls up and fight back.

If anyone thinks Darius is doing this to get member back in fleet, they are literally dumb as hell.

nope he lost them, he's just throwing all the toys out of the sandbox because some of the other kids don't want to play by his rules.

there would be more people in null if it wasnt for the greedy overlords. what's funny is they can't see what ccp are doing, or they do see and it's a kneejerk reaction to save their little empires.

haha you think Brick has little empires

it was a broad generalization relating to how stagnant null has become and the causes. you think ccp made insursions the way they are by accident?

Perhaps I do underestimate. If they don't like what is happening.. they can, and should.. do something about it ingame.

I don't see how I make Isk as being the slighest bit relevent. I don't do Incursions, they are boring. I don't take advantage of ppl that don't deserve it.. which is why I posted in the first place. I have no horse in this race ultimately.. because..

I do find this whole thing hilarious. And applaud those involved for making a stand ingame against something they dislike.. altho I think there is more to it than that..

It's pretty damn funny at face value. And this is EVE.. do something about it just like they are, ingame. That was and is the whole damn point of my post.. they get it, others don't and sadly never will.

EDIT: PvP players.. PvE players.. it is an excuse. A bullshit excuse. Everyone is an EVE player.. it is that simple. Making it more than that is denying the foundation and core of this Sandbox PvP MMO. All in the same box.. given same tools.

Stuff..

Are pvp pilots using alts to farm Incursions? Are they or are they not doing so with friends? Does it not take organizing to successfully handle Incursions on a repeated basis?

Believing they shouldn't have to.. cause this is a sandbox like you seem to agree.. is bullshit. They should not be cuddled with extra affection.. at all. Even though they are to an extent. And because of that.. why should they be entitled to more than those that don't have the same level of 'protection' surrounding them?

And stop being fail in simple words. I stated, repeatedly.. there is no pve, there is no pvp.. there is ONLY EVE players. Plain and simple. Why you are attempting to twist what I say and lump it up is obvious.. so knock it off. Makes you look like an idiot, quite honestly. And I don't think you are, a bit confused me thinks tho.

You.. too narrowly defined the word 'sand castle'. I take the word and broaden it.. a person's 'sand castle' in EVE to me can be their ideals, their land, their ships, to philosphy, basicly..

What They Make Of EVE For Themself.

I didn't say highsec mains had to step outside of highsec, or be terrified. Quite the opposite. They can get off their ass and defend what they believe is theirs tho.

*merged comments*

IMO.. go for It.. defend It.. or be a lil *****. Doesn't matter who or where you are in the Game, nor what you do. Choice is yours. Choice is mine. Get it yet?

If anyone thinks Darius is doing this to get member back in fleet, they are literally dumb as hell.

The Mittani abused his postion as a CSM to initiate a war vs all mining barges in high sec.
Now Darius is also abusing his position to do this.
As a CSM you should not be forcing your type of gaming into the rest of eve nor should you be using your position to carry out your private vandettas OR you will fail as CSM.

More stuff..

Soon you will not be able to count on having an incursion available to you 23/7. We will be killing the rest of the MS all at one time in a few days if negotiations with the BLT and TDF leaders fall apart.

We expect CCP to step in and spawn more/change the mechanic that makes them spawn.

After killing/forcing the MS to be killed, there were 700 in public incursion channel. So we made a fake logi fleet and got @15 BS killed by luring them and not repping them once aggro came in.

I am interested in hearing from a broader audience than Crime and Punishment about our actions.

Approve or disapprove and why?

*snip*
Do you really believe it takes a mass super gank?
*snip*

The only other offensive action that could be taken is to attack those guys on their home turf...which won't happen, because they're much bigger than anything the incursion community could muster with any sort of regularity.

I mean I guess there's always merc corps, but even for incursion runners I'd imagine hiring enough mercs to take on an alliance or two would be prohibitively expensive....not to mention the logistics of finding that many in the first place.

Really? The incursion community couldn't muster a few dozen PVP ships to group up and wardec us? It's not that they lack numbers, it's that they lack the will (or maybe the courage) to actually do it.

Because hiring mercenaries has worked so well for them in the past.

Hey, I am new round here, and op making much big talk about doing something ... And lots of more big talk by many after that.

I looking in threads and not find yet anything major happenings... Except talking.

Has op actually achieved anything big like first post suggesting, or is this one also much bleat moan hot air?

Not really. We killed two Sansha MS...well we killed one and forced destruction of another. Then when only one incursion was up we went in and killed close to 20 ships by forming fleets with logi that never repped anyone. Good times. Way more tears than I expected and we only slowed down the bears for 1 day. BUT it marked the first time in recent memory that a C&P pickup fleet was successful. Was done to show imbalance and get attention to the fact that incursions need rebalancing.

Not really. We killed two Sansha MS...well we killed one and forced destruction of another. Then when only one incursion was up we went in and killed close to 20 ships by forming fleets with logi that never repped anyone. Good times. Way more tears than I expected and we only slowed down the bears for 1 day. BUT it marked the first time in recent memory that a C&P pickup fleet was successful. Was done to show imbalance and get attention to the fact that incursions need rebalancing.

It's funny how people say "EVE is a Sandbox, I should be able to play it however I want within the games mechanics!" in response to people playing EVE as a sandbox, doing whatever they want within the game mechanics.

what does it matter how someone plays this game its a sandbox game. I dunt understand all the hate being tossed at some of the players just based on how thay play the game. I have never once done incursions because i have never wanted to. It seem s that null sec players are forceing the way thay play on the rest of eve. And you seem, to be helping. Eve is a Sandbox game you are free to play it your way take away that freedom you take away part of the heart and soul if EvE onine.IF that is your goal you have failed as a CSM member.

.........
When I was in DR, in the beginning we had no moon, no goo yet we were in 0.0 with a nice ship replacement program even covering lost carriers and dreads
.............

Not really. We killed two Sansha MS...well we killed one and forced destruction of another.

Then when only one incursion was up we went in and killed close to 20 ships by forming fleets with logi that never repped anyone. Good times. Way more tears than I expected and we only slowed down the bears for 1 day. BUT it marked the first time in recent memory that a C&P pickup fleet was successful. Was done to show imbalance and get attention to the fact that incursions need rebalancing.

At first glance this thread could be viewed as information about Sansha Incursions which is pertinent to 'Missions & Complexes' sub forum channel. However, in reality it doesn't even remotely pertain to 'Missions & Complexes'.

The initial opening statement in the OP pertains to Corporation/Alliance politics and basically is an open declaration of war regarding Sansha Incursions. This fact alone shows this thread is in the wrong sub forum channel and as such should be moved to 'Corporation, Alliance & Organization Discussions'.

The next statement makes reference to CCP making possible changes to game play mechanics regarding Sansha Incursions which at this time is mostly conjecture from the OP. This fact alone shows this thread is in the wrong sub forum channel and as such should be moved to 'Features & Ideas Discussion' or 'Issues, Workarounds & Localization'.

Then the OP makes reference about completing a site and then gloats about creating a fake Logi Fleet to facilitate the destruction of other players ships. This fact alone shows this thread is in the wrong sub forum channel and as such should be moved to 'Crime & Punishment'.

Last but not least, the OP asks the community members here to participate in a discussion and post their viewpoints, both pro and con, about this thread without actually benefiting from the answers. This fact alone shows this thread is in the wrong sub forum channel and as such should be moved to 'Eve General Discussion'.


Now if there's already a similar thread active somewhere else in these forums, then this thread needs to be locked. Some might argue that it could pertain to 'Missions & Complexes' serving as a warning about Sansha Incursions. However, due to the lack of detail and the various topics contained in the OP, that is not the case. Personally I think the original post of this thread is actually just a rant looking to incite a flame war as well as a gloat looking to gain fame and notoriety. Either way it doesn't belong in 'Missions & Complexes' and as such is now being reported.

CCP CSM meeting

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3377

Notes from said meeting:

http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2011/CSM_CCP_Mettings_7-9_12_2011.pdf

Inflation in EVE is minor; PLEX is unrelated to ISK flow; Incursions are good for the game.

Those ain't my words, those are words of CCP and CSM.

And in case you wonder why PLEX is high.

https://secure.eveonline.com/fanfest/default.aspx

Nothing new, same happened last year. Couple thousand people buying from 6-30 PLEX to go to Iceland as its easier for them to spend couple dozen billion game money than couple hundred real $. Gee I wonder if PLEX will go up.

how about both tdf and btf stop running incursions for a while, and go back to running missions or whatever?
Do you really think they will pay? They can't be that stupid, the second they pay they'll have a dozen alliances on they'r ass trying to do the same

If they paid I am sure those involved wouldnt tell a soul, to protect their racket.

Hint: Give him the 176 M isk a day and be done with it.

Hmmm ... closing the incursions by killing the MOM quickly.
Purpose?
a. griefing HiSec runners
b. lutz
c. making point aimed at payout
d. wanting the best loot for selves.
e. trying to force CCP into action so you can whine about it
f. all of the above?