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Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.09.06 03:43:00 - [121] Originally by: Mortuus Edited by: Mortuus on 06/09/2007 03:22:51 With its lower speed and the tracking boost to Pulses its very close, AND its not fighting in falloff with the additional 50% miss rate or more. And if you really want to, you can fit it to snipe. You know if you want to there is this little bar at the bottom of your screen. You can modify your velocity so as to not miss when you orbit.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.06 04:01:00 - [122] Dude the zealot dont need no extra gun. the graphs here and here obviously show it is wtfuwber pwnage like the Eagle. rawr. Liang Yarr?
goodby4u Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.06 04:05:00 - [123] Originally by: iiOs Originally by: magnus amadeus You do know that the vaga/muninn can both do around 600 DPS and the demios/ishtar can do about 800 right (ya gotta include drones)? duno how you get 800 dps out of deimos but ishtar yea, its crazy ship, but as i said its uber, and shouldnt be used to compare other hacs to it and about vaga and munin, you forgetting range changing possebility zealot have ;) Your forgetting they can change range aswell,and dont give me"insta swapping crystals,"when you swap more then three some dont reload so you have to swap them again,might as well use a ship without that bonus. The ishtar is a nice ship,so is the muninn(weak tank but meh)vaga is awesome,deimos is great and so is both the eagle and cerb(slight mehness in caldari)...These are all nice ships because they have niches,vaga speed,muninn can either snipe or do hella dps,deimos alot more dps but close range....The zealot's niche is....shooting outside 10km and having a light tank?Sounds like most of the other ships in this list can do that. Btw,stop being a troll. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.09.06 05:06:00 - [124] Originally by: Liang Nuren Dude the zealot dont need no extra gun. the graphs here and here obviously show it is wtfuwber pwnage like the Eagle. rawr. Liang The eagle has problems in the short range, there is no denying that. It doesnt have problems in the long range. The Zealot has problems everywhere.
Ather Ialeas Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.09.06 05:33:00 - [125] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr This isn't about balancing ships man, you know that. Everyone here who flies amarr know that they can compete with other hacs in the game right now if they are fit properly, I don't want to hear it. I've fought some really damn good Zealot pilots that made me think 'What the 4 letter word :) are people crying about on forums, that thing was pretty vicious.' Maybe you guys just need a better setup. :D Fit one medium neutralizer and you should beat all those Zealots, even if it's "properly fitted". Being the cap restricted race just plain sucks.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.06 05:34:00 - [126] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Liang Nuren Dude the zealot dont need no extra gun. the graphs here and here obviously show it is wtfuwber pwnage like the Eagle. rawr. Liang The eagle has problems in the short range, there is no denying that. It doesnt have problems in the long range. The Zealot has problems everywhere. The Zealot is awesome at short range according to these graphs here and here, and if you give it another turret slot it will be overpowered at every range. Liang Yarr?
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.09.06 06:41:00 - [127] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Liang Nuren Dude the zealot dont need no extra gun. the graphs here and here obviously show it is wtfuwber pwnage like the Eagle. rawr. Liang The eagle has problems in the short range, there is no denying that. It doesnt have problems in the long range. The Zealot has problems everywhere. The Zealot is awesome at short range according to these graphs here and here, and if you give it another turret slot it will be overpowered at every range. Liang I am sorry, what graphs?
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.06 07:17:00 - [128] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Liang Nuren Dude the zealot dont need no extra gun. the graphs here and here obviously show it is wtfuwber pwnage like the Eagle. rawr. Liang The eagle has problems in the short range, there is no denying that. It doesnt have problems in the long range. The Zealot has problems everywhere. The Zealot is awesome at short range according to these graphs here and here, and if you give it another turret slot it will be overpowered at every range. Liang I am sorry, what graphs? Oh, I'm just saying I'm linking to them. It saves me the trouble of making things up like you do. ^_^ Liang Yarr?
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.09.06 07:31:00 - [129] K, awesome levels of sillyness and trolling going on... -Yeah, eagle is ****. If you believe that the Zealot doesn't deserve a boost because of it, than you are a tard. Fix the Zealot, and fix the Eagle at the same time. 5th turret for both! -Eagle SHOULD do less damage than a Zealot, as a Zealot cannot hit out to 200+km, while the Eagle can. Both ships have different niches; Zealot -> close to mid range gankage, Eagle -> mid to long range sniperage. -Comparing HACs to Commands is just plain lol. For the sake of argument, when was the last time you saw a Zealot shoot at the same range your Vulture does, Waxau? -Binger doesn't do everything a Zealot does. Zealot still needs a boost, but saying that a Binger can do everything a Zealot can is false. -If you think the Zealot is so great, put your damn money where your mouth is, and do the training for it. Maybe then you will see where it falls short.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.09.06 08:01:00 - [130] Originally by: Liang Nuren Oh, I'm just saying I'm linking to them. It saves me the trouble of making things up like you do. ^_^ Liang I have linked to the graphs and explained them so many times already it is getting a bit painful to have to do it again in that thread. How many times do i have to do it until you look at the things?
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2007.09.06 09:46:00 - [131] A 5th turret would be nice for the Zealot but I would be happy (maybe happier) with a drone bay. 15m3 - same as the sac would do nicely, a little more DPS and an extra option.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.09.06 10:20:00 - [132] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus K, awesome levels of sillyness and trolling going on... -Yeah, eagle is ****. If you believe that the Zealot doesn't deserve a boost because of it, than you are a tard. Fix the Zealot, and fix the Eagle at the same time. 5th turret for both! -Eagle SHOULD do less damage than a Zealot, as a Zealot cannot hit out to 200+km, while the Eagle can. Both ships have different niches; Zealot -> close to mid range gankage, Eagle -> mid to long range sniperage. -Comparing HACs to Commands is just plain lol. For the sake of argument, when was the last time you saw a Zealot shoot at the same range your Vulture does, Waxau? -Binger doesn't do everything a Zealot does. Zealot still needs a boost, but saying that a Binger can do everything a Zealot can is false. -If you think the Zealot is so great, put your damn money where your mouth is, and do the training for it. Maybe then you will see where it falls short. Why was i comparing it to a command ship? Same reason you're comparing the harbinger to a zealot. And im sorry, but the damnation CAN outdamage the zealot. Go look up those graphs ya stuck up sod. And secondly, Claymore dps > minnie hac dps, eos > gal Hac dps. Dont start whining about them being fleets. It was a comparison to rival yours. You dont like it? Fine. But the fact still remains. You're wanting a boost in a ship, which doesnt need it, and using disproportionate examples to justify it. And you all say about 'balance'...And then flame me for comparing it to others? What kind of balance are you looking for eh? Nubs
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2007.09.06 11:41:00 - [133] Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 06/09/2007 11:41:12 funny how some mentioned the vaga because i got my zealot to 8900 m/s without implants and without gang bonus and without overloading the mwd :) it only lacks a bit dps but its a easy fix, give it 15m¦ drone bay
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.06 11:48:00 - [134] Originally by: Waxau You're wanting a boost in a ship, which doesnt need it, and using disproportionate examples to justify it. And you all say about 'balance'...And then flame me for comparing it to others? What kind of balance are you looking for eh? Nubs Is vaga decent enough example to justify it? Faster, more tank, better tracking, more cap independent, drones? Or perhaps just fact that huginn does outdamage zealot? (3x 220mm acII+barrage, 3x hamII+std ammo, 3x med + 2x light t2 drones) outdamage zealot with scorch and 2 heatsinks while huginn didn't use any dmg mods yet. While same huginn have ability to have like 7k shield with quite good resists(2x lse II+invul II is ok, you don't need 2 webs on hugabbond) Or perhaps arazu with drones + 2 mag stabs II and 250mm rails coming close to outdamage zealot? (with faction am, 280dps or so) Do you need more? All ships mentioned above do outperform zealot at pretty much any role while having some other useful abilities and zealot have ... none. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.09.06 11:48:00 - [135] 5th turret YES!
Julio Torres Chosen Path FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.06 12:55:00 - [136] /signed Zealot & Eagle both needs a 5th turret!
Baran Doban Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.06 13:02:00 - [137] Edited by: Baran Doban on 06/09/2007 13:02:36 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Liang Nuren Oh, I'm just saying I'm linking to them. It saves me the trouble of making things up like you do. ^_^ Liang I have linked to the graphs and explained them so many times already it is getting a bit painful to have to do it again in that thread. How many times do i have to do it until you look at the things? You forgot that Special Ed students are unique and beautiful snowflakes that require more delicate teaching methods. __________ Ware Koso Wa, Ware Koso Wa... Baran Doban! Ban! Ban! Ban! Ban!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.09.06 13:17:00 - [138] Originally by: Cpt Cosmic Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 06/09/2007 11:51:38 funny how some mentioned the vaga because i got my zealot to 8900 m/s without implants and without gang bonus and without overloading the mwd :) it only lacks a bit dps but its a easy fix, give it 15m¦ drone bay edit its more easy then a fix sell zealot, buy sacrilege :) funny thing is, scacrilege with dual armor rep tank and thermic passive hardener + 2 bcu II outdamages zealot and tanks 400 dps :) Can you hit 8900m/s without lieing? Or are you fitting a 100mn mwd? With a full rack of tech 2 overdrives/nanos, polycarbon rigs and a t2 MWD the zealot goes 4600m/s with maxed skills, so maybe 5500m/s with implants. With tech 2 rigs, a full rack of faction overdrives/nanos, tech 2 polycarbons, and a gistium A-type mwd, the Zealot hits 6340m/s at maxed skills so maybe 7.5-8k with implants.
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.09.06 13:26:00 - [139] no I want another low on my eos though..
Markus Aurelian	Posted - 2007.09.06 13:31:00 - [140] Originally by: Miss KillSome no I want another low on my eos though.. because we all know that the eos is in dire need of a boost Meatwad FTW
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.06 13:43:00 - [141] Originally by: Spartikaz Say yes if you think the zealot should get a extra gun slot! NO NO NO You do not have the cap or the PG to sustain 5 Heavy Pulse II and 5x Focused vs 4x HP II is still a bad choice. A 4x HP II Zealot with 3 dam mods does 450 dps - something in that order, with good gunnery and HAC 4. A drone bay would mean up to 100 extra variable DPS - hello to kin/exp damage, and the ability to use EW. Short of giving it a 4th mid - i have wet dreams about this, a drone bay would be the best thing for a Zealot; just 25m3 would be great. I'm not neutral in RAGOON vs BOB, I just dislike both sides. :)
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.06 13:47:00 - [142] Originally by: Lisento Slaven Zealot is 78 mil in Domain. Sacrilege is 110 mil in Domain. Prior to any announcement of the Khanid changes, the Sacrilege was about 68 mil in Domain. Prior to any announcements of the Khanid changes, the Zealot was about 110 mil in Domain (vague memory on this one). It is safe to say that people think the Zealot is not worth anywhere near as much anymore. In fact...the Sacrilege is more fun to fly in my opinion. The Zealot is boring and is outclassed by the harbinger. 25 m3 drone bay, 3 more turrets, +1 rig slot, +1 mid slot, -1 lowslot, obviously more grid and cpu. And also cheaper. (by about 40 mil in Domain region...I see the harbinger going for 34.8 mil). Harbinger is better than Zealot in my opinion =P Learn the ship, Harbinger has 50m3 drone bay. With Hammerheads II and Focused T2 Pulse with Conflag M it does 450 + 170 DPS. And that is not with uber skills and hardwirings. :) I'm not neutral in RAGOON vs BOB, I just dislike both sides. :)
goodby4u Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.06 13:55:00 - [143] Originally by: Baran Doban Edited by: Baran Doban on 06/09/2007 13:02:36 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Liang Nuren Oh, I'm just saying I'm linking to them. It saves me the trouble of making things up like you do. ^_^ Liang I have linked to the graphs and explained them so many times already it is getting a bit painful to have to do it again in that thread. How many times do i have to do it until you look at the things? You forgot that Special Ed students are unique and beautiful snowflakes that require more delicate teaching methods. Lose the debate so let's start with the personal attacks? Im sure he has linked them in the past(ive seen them)and has probably fought zealots before,ive flown one aswell as fought them and i can say its underpowered due to a lack of a niche. Btw graphs?most say the zealot only does about 460 dps(without implants or officer mods)is as slow as a maller and has a tank like a bleeder setup punisher...Its difficult to setup,fly,but not look at. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.06 14:01:00 - [144] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Ferocious FeAr It doesn't need another gun slot. Want poor dps for a hac? Fly an eagle, fly a cerberus. Thank you very much. You can close this thread now. Cerb does 440 DPS to 40km without needing to worry about tracking, being cap stable, going 2800m/s, and having a decent tank. That aint bad. That's a gank fitting, I'm talking about tank. Let's just say we are talking about gank, the Zealot still outperforms the Cerberus on damage. I can confirm with EFT if you wish. As for the guy who is talking about my logic, EFT doesn't lie my friend. My EFT says a Zealot does 454 DPS with Amarr Navy MF M @ 10km, and the Cerb does 494 DPS w/ Caldary Navy Terror Assault Missiles at 40km. I would love to see how you get more than 494 DPS with a Zealot, let alone do that at 40km. Ummm... Faction ammo missiles only go 23km, your figures are wrong. The DPS part is right, however, good luck tanking. While the Zealot does 454 which is correct but can tank better than the Cerberus (when it fits HAMs). Now I stand corrected on the DPS part but realistically there is no way a Cerb with HAM's and 3 BCU is going to have anything of a tank. Go ahead and try to fit a decent tank, you can't. That is why most Caldari users tend to lean towards HML's. At least you won't run into fitting problems if you run a 3 heat sink setup. My original post still stands. In the end Zealot will do more damage if fit correctly! You don't know the ship you are flying. How sad. Check what kind of bonus the Cerberus inherits from the Caracal and then read your post again. Maybe then you will realise why you are such a n00b. :) I'm not neutral in RAGOON vs BOB, I just dislike both sides. :)
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.06 15:43:00 - [145] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Liang Nuren Oh, I'm just saying I'm linking to them. It saves me the trouble of making things up like you do. ^_^ Liang I have linked to the graphs and explained them so many times already it is getting a bit painful to have to do it again in that thread. How many times do i have to do it until you look at the things? What? Oh, but explaining a random number generator is just useless. Your graphs don't reflect reality - so they might as well be a random number generator. Also, according to YOUR OWN GRAPHS, the Zealot, with an extra turret, would vastly overpower the Eagle - which is supposed to be the ultimate sniper. Liang Yarr?
Magazaki	Posted - 2007.09.06 16:19:00 - [146] Originally by: Liang Nuren What? Oh, but explaining a random number generator is just useless. Your graphs don't reflect reality - so they might as well be a random number generator. Also, according to YOUR OWN GRAPHS, the Zealot, with an extra turret, would vastly overpower the Eagle - which is supposed to be the ultimate sniper. Liang I just cut myself on the irony. Arrogance + hypocrisy + intelligence + belief that this intelligence is superior to others' + the oportunity of a guy to remove his arguments following his own interest = 2 very funny threads Gourmin commited what we could call "forum-character suicide" On another note, Eagle and then Zealot need a fifth turret. I know this is a thread about the Zealot and not eagle, but I mention the eagle cause since it is already the last of the pack his distance to the next one would be even bigger...
Jonny Magellan Amarr Dastardly Bastards	Posted - 2007.09.06 16:19:00 - [147] Originally by: Regaul Kinath Edited by: Regaul Kinath on 05/09/2007 23:29:28 Edited by: Regaul Kinath on 05/09/2007 23:28:11 If i wasnt so stupid i would say that the omen outdamages the zealot zealot = 4 turrets omen = 4 turrets + 1 heavy missile launcher + 3 light drones! what the hell am i the only one that seems something wrong here??? The omen outdamages the zealot, the zealot only tanks better! I thought it was supose a HAC outdamage a t1 counterpart! Yeah the omen does outdamage the zealot. And also, Lukec post is spot on.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.06 16:26:00 - [148] Originally by: Magazaki Originally by: Liang Nuren What? Oh, but explaining a random number generator is just useless. Your graphs don't reflect reality - so they might as well be a random number generator. Also, according to YOUR OWN GRAPHS, the Zealot, with an extra turret, would vastly overpower the Eagle - which is supposed to be the ultimate sniper. Liang just cut myself on the irony. Arrogance + hypocrisy + intelligence + belief that this intelligence is superior to others' + the oportunity of a guy to remove his arguments following his own interest = 2 very funny threads Gourmin commited what we could call "forum-character suicide" On another note, Eagle and then Zealot need a fifth turret. I know this is a thread about the Zealot and not eagle, but I mention the eagle cause since it is already the last of the pack his distance to the next one would be even bigger... I made a post in the Eagle thread suggesting specific boosts for all the HAC's bar the Vaga. I couldn't agree more that they both need a turret slot. ^_^ Liang Yarr?
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.09.06 16:38:00 - [149] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Deschenus Maximus -Binger doesn't do everything a Zealot does. Zealot still needs a boost, but saying that a Binger can do everything a Zealot can is false. Why was i comparing it to a command ship? Same reason you're comparing the harbinger to a zealot. Which I am not. I made it bold for you. So the rest of your ravings about fleet commands are pointless. Originally by: Waxau You're wanting a boost in a ship, which doesnt need it, and using disproportionate examples to justify it. IIRC, your argument against a Zealot boost is that it outdamages the Eagle. I'm sorry, but that's just plain silly. Eagle needs a 5th turret too, but the Zealot SHOULD outdamage it, for the same reason the Abaddon should outdamage the Rokh. Originally by: Waxau Nubs <3
Fon Revedhort Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion	Posted - 2007.09.06 16:43:00 - [150] 5th turret to zealot? Can I have the 7th on my abso then? That utility slot it's very useful, too ---

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