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PETITION: Reduce fighter spam lag!

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Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.14 21:40:00 - [331] Originally by: Jinmie How is it a nerf if all Carriers do equivalent dps after just through 5 Fighters, 5 Fighters that will die 2x slower due to having 100% more hp mind you... If anything that's clearly a buff. Moreover, reducing the lag caused by drone clouds means that carrier and droneboat pilots might actually be able to control their drones and be able to all assign them to the primary or their particular desired target, rather than the player throw them at the only ship that appears on his overview, or having them sit idle or auto-aggress a randomly selected ship from the enemy fleet. Originally by: 1Of9 Because less drones will do same damage, but once you kill 1 of them, u kill ur target dps ALOT faster .. so, yeah, it's a "hidden" pro-goon feature .. a.k.a. nerf nerf nerf Which is why I suggested merging the 2/3/4/5 individual drones into a 'squadron' entity which would have 2/3/4/5x the HP of an individual drone. That way, by the time you've chewed through the HP of that squadron and killed it, you've done the same amount of damage as you would have needed to kill the 5 individual drones/fighters anyway. I've no problem at all with changes which actually result in a slight net improvement in the performance of carriers and motherships - as I've pointed out previously, there's probably not all that great a difference between the amount of active carriers and MSs on the RSF side and those being used against us, so even if you think this is all some dark and evil goonie plot it would do little to benefit us anyway. What I, and I'm sure all of us, want is for those ships to make their presence felt on the field through the deliberate actions of the player piloting that ship, not for the carrier pilot to pop out the fighters and go afk for half an hour because he or she can't issue any commands anyway and just has to rely on the lag-free fighters to auto-aggress and do all the work.
Lars Erlkonig Caldari GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.14 21:41:00 - [332] When the other system has 200 pilots on the gate with 270 est fighter drones what do you expect us to do? Jump in 10 at a time so the node has time to re-balance? Give me a break. We've had gangs of equal size but due to lag don't jump them in because we cannot trust the nodes will hold with all the drone spam on a gate. I'd rather have some decent fights over giant lag-fests where nothing happens except for the few pilots who can shoot. I'm not saying that the OP has the best suggestion in mind, but we do need to do something about getting the resultant lag from epic style fleet fights to a manageable level.
1Of9 Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.09.14 22:06:00 - [333] I dont expect you 2do anything, except to die. i dont care if u jump 1by1 or all at once, just dont blaim it on the drones, because they r not it. you little coordinated forum-spam trick dont work. besides, you guys not just do the same, but u do even worse. and when u r the welcoming side, u dont complain. nerf nerf nerf you say? /not signed
Jinmie	Posted - 2007.09.14 22:47:00 - [334] Yes you would lose 2x the dps if one died, but they take 2x as much damage before they die ! Making them 2x easier to scoop / rep in time. How dense are you really? >.<
Ur235 Aliastra	Posted - 2007.09.15 00:45:00 - [335] I suppose the only fix for this is to stop drones auto aggroing, so the player ahs to order what to fight, making it an even playing field. Its a fare enuogh demand it does not give an advantge to either side.
James Duar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.15 01:23:00 - [336] Removing auto-drone aggression would fix balance issues, but not lag issues. It's kind of preferable to do both, but I'm under no illusions that it's just drones - there's lots of other things. Jump in mechanics probably need to change so a massed jump in actually results in everyone loading grid.
Usarua	Posted - 2007.09.15 02:25:00 - [337] Edited by: Usarua on 15/09/2007 02:32:30 I think allowing them to keep the capacity of fighters or even increase it, while slightly increasing fighter damage but lowering the number of fighters they are allowed to field at once by 3/5x or so would be the perfect solution. the fighters can replace the losses easily this way, but it doesnt lag the server and over time adds up to the same dps anyway, which means carriers dont suffer anything but slightly increased cost losses from fighters being in smaller numbers and therefore easier to focus fire kill. it also prevents all a carriers fighters being popped at once by DDD or smartbomb spam. Originally by: Kif Edited by: Kif on 07/09/2007 23:13:28 The only problem I have is the fact that fighters are essentially immune to lag (that they help create). Thats the problem that needs fixing. Complain all you want about huge fleets with hundreds of people lagging, but at least everyone has to deal with that. When you have 7 MS and 30 carriers that dump hundreds of fighters on grid at once, then procede to just agro whatever and tear it apart while its helpless... thats what sucks. upon seeing, this would actually fix the whole thing quickly for a while until its changed to be less lag inducing. because what fleet is going to lag itself and the enemy out with no gain?
Swinton Wolsoncroft Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.15 03:29:00 - [338] It is really awesome when hundreds of autonomous drones sit on the other side of a gate cause your client to fail to load for 5-10 minutes and when your client finally loads, its in a station in a newbie clone. Fix the lag now. Do not trolls in your sig. -Kaemonn
Zeoliter Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 04:30:00 - [339] Read the first page and it's just a Goon whine. Goon perspective: We are losing, nerf Eve. Go play WoW. And here's a another box of tissues.
Usarua	Posted - 2007.09.15 04:42:00 - [340] Originally by: Zeoliter Read the first page and it's just a Goon whine. Goon perspective: We are losing, nerf Eve. Go play WoW. And here's a another box of tissues. moderators, lets remove all this forum's troll and flame/criticize/unconstructive posts.

Zaranisa	Posted - 2007.09.15 05:07:00 - [341] Originally by: Usarua Originally by: Zeoliter Read the first page and it's just a Goon whine. Goon perspective: We are losing, nerf Eve. Go play WoW. And here's a another box of tissues. moderators, lets remove all this forum's troll and flame/criticize/unconstructive posts. yes doo that and also remove post #1
phillie blunt Live And Let Die	Posted - 2007.09.15 05:20:00 - [342] Originally by: James Duar Removing auto-drone aggression would fix balance issues, but not lag issues. It's kind of preferable to do both, but I'm under no illusions that it's just drones - there's lots of other things. Jump in mechanics probably need to change so a massed jump in actually results in everyone loading grid. since when the drones auto agress? ah yeah those are the t3 drones
Perpello Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 05:25:00 - [343] Quote: twenty carriers will launch 300 Yup, all Alliance carrier pilots have Advanced Drone Interfacing V and fit five drone control units. We are that good.
TechnoMag Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 05:49:00 - [344] Originally by: WrathOfOprah /Signed I don't care what you do CCP. Just do something. This is more annoying than the old Titans. I want to at least See when I die. yeah sure ... why not u r making your own game ... its kinda silly : nerf that (because we r loosing) after 2months ok nerf THAT and un-nerf the other one and so on... Why u think eve should be developed after your evolution ingame? if the ccp will nerf again on command because of goons mass petition maybe other alliance will do the same in future and petition the unliked features of the enemy? EULA 7. CONDUCT A. 1. You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System.
James Duar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.15 05:50:00 - [345] Originally by: Perpello Quote: twenty carriers will launch 300 Yup, all Alliance carrier pilots have Advanced Drone Interfacing V and fit five drone control units. We are that good. 4 from Carrier 4 + 4 from ADI 4 = 8 drones per carrier = 160 drones. 'splain to me how that is that much better?
Usarua	Posted - 2007.09.15 06:27:00 - [346] Edited by: Usarua on 15/09/2007 06:31:59 Edited by: Usarua on 15/09/2007 06:30:14 Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 08/09/2007 20:16:35 Originally by: CSFFlame ò 5 drones require 125 times more server calculations than just one. (5^3 / 1) ò 15 drones require 27 times more server calculations than five. (15^3 / 5^3) ò 25 drones require 125 times more server calculations than five, and 15,625 times more calculations than a single drone. The OP is completely wrong on this one (where the hell did he get that n^3 nonsense from), and if that is the basis of his argument, the argument is basically null and void. A drone/fighter (referenced collectively as 'drone' from now) requires a certain amount of server CPU. It needs that for flight-path calculation and shooting information. ò 2 drones require 2 times the CPU of 1 drones! ò 5 drones require 5 times the CPU of 1 drones! .....etc. This is so, because there are NO interaction between drones. They don't need to know about each other (unless they're shooting each other), i.e. drone A doesn't need to tell drone B that "I'm here, doing this". In that aspect, they're little different from any gun mounted on a ship. The information about them is a static piece, unless a player action changes it. So, if we try to count the different pieces of information needing to be calculated and sent to other ships on grid. Take a gun BS for example (Raven is worse since it also has missiles in flight): 7 or 8 pieces of firing information for its guns 10 pieces of information for its drones 1 piece of flight-path information ? pieces of effect information ? pieces of targeting information Total: 19 + ? + ? Now, take a carrier: ~2 pieces of firing information for its remote reppers (of whichever type) 18 pieces of information for its fighters (assuming he can control 9) 1 piece of flight-path information ? pieces of effect information ? pieces of targeting information Total: 21 + ? + ? And a mommyship: ~3 pieces of firing information for its remote reppers (of whichever type) 40 pieces of information for its fighters (assuming he can control 20) 1 piece of flight-path information ? pieces of effect information ? pieces of targeting information Total: 44 + ? + ? ......................... you very neatly neglected the part where turrets on a ship dont have velocities and trajectory calculations for flight into orbit around a target. to fire, once per the firing rate, the gun retrieves all the pertinent information, and updates the fight with a hit or miss. a drone or fighter is another ship with its own gun. thats 20 more ships running collision detection and trajectory modification based on how the target is movin. are you insane?
Tijuana Mrrp Technologies	Posted - 2007.09.15 07:13:00 - [347] Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Perpello Quote: twenty carriers will launch 300 Yup, all Alliance carrier pilots have Advanced Drone Interfacing V and fit five drone control units. We are that good. 4 from Carrier 4 + 4 from ADI 4 = 8 drones per carrier = 160 drones. 'splain to me how that is that much better? Now teaching MA 109 "Math for Goons" is: Professor Tijuana. 9 from Carrier Level 4 +4 from all 4 Drone Control Units = 13 Fighters (kinda like 8) 20 X 13 = 260 As Perpello suggested: 10 from Carrier Level 5 +5 from 5 DCUs =15 fighters 15 X 20 = 300 Hope that helps!
Perpello Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 08:46:00 - [348] Originally by: Tijuana Now teaching MA 109 "Math for Goons" is: Professor Tijuana. Well, counting isn't a skill that Goons are renowned for.
James Duar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.15 08:48:00 - [349] Originally by: Perpello Originally by: Tijuana Now teaching MA 109 "Math for Goons" is: Professor Tijuana. Well, counting isn't a skill that Goons are renowned for. Don't fly a carrier, just mildly amused that your point was still invalid even when I stuffed up the math grossly in its favor.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 08:50:00 - [350] You could remote dd them with titan, you know... ... but you were whining about that too. Now eat whatever you cooked.

BOldMan Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 09:44:00 - [351] Originally by: James Duar No one anywhere has implied drones are the sole cause of lag? All I see is 'pls nerf ships that can create lag to our ubber blob or can kill us in our uber lag'
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 09:56:00 - [352] Dear CCP Plz nerf everything that the whining majortiy of GS can not field and gets owned by it or they will whine whine whine . Br PS: Epic lulz at goons and their pets circle jerkign each other
Dagam GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.15 10:00:00 - [353] At this point it's mostly you guys bumping it giving it more attention. Thanks for dis.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 10:02:00 - [354] Originally by: Dagam At this point it's mostly you guys bumping it giving it more attention. Thanks for dis. At the point when ppl laugh at the village idiot he doesnt get attention he is just a mockery , exactly like you and ur alliance . MAD PROPS
Dagam GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.15 10:11:00 - [355] Probably the best suggestion yet to reduce lag was to remove drone collision. That, and reducing fighters to 5 while keeping dps the same, like what was done to drones in RMR, would go a long way to making massive fleet fights playable. For some reason this is unreasonable to many on the Bob side, though one can guess why.
1Of9 Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.09.15 10:16:00 - [356] we cant oublob anymore .. CCP nerf!!! nooo we are blobed to hell NERF!! nerf nerf nerf nerf
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 10:54:00 - [357] Originally by: Dagam Probably the best suggestion yet to reduce lag was to remove drone collision. That, and reducing fighters to 5 while keeping dps the same, like what was done to drones in RMR, would go a long way to making massive fleet fights playable. For some reason this is unreasonable to many on the Bob side, though one can guess why. How about every goon launching drones before we jumped into them? Was that also part of goon initative to reduce lag? For some reason, this is unreasonable to many on BoB side, though one can only guess why.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.09.15 10:56:00 - [358] Originally by: Usarua Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... you very neatly neglected the part where turrets on a ship dont have velocities and trajectory calculations for flight into orbit around a target. You'll kindly notice that I quoted 2 (two) pieces of information for the drones and 1 (one) for the turrets. The extra one is the flight calculation. IF collision detection and flight path calculation was the cause of lag, the game would be lagged to hell when there was no battle going on, but all had drones out. This however is not happening (drones out cause at max a slight decrease in responsivenes, even for a large fleet), so the argument is not valid. What most likely causes the majority of lag is the server trying to receive, parse and act of massive amount of player actions, and making massive amounts of damage calculations per second. Originally by: Kerfira are you insane? No, I'm just not accepting misrepresentation of the truth on the forum for the purpose of removing in-game enemies you're not good enough to handle. Originally by: Kerfira ...good tactic to use lag to kill people with the excuse that you bought all those ships and should be able to use them. Ask RA and their pets. They have the most experience in this area of the game. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Francesca Dell'Agio	Posted - 2007.09.15 10:57:00 - [359] Give it 3 months until you see the bulk of carrier pilots switched to motherships for POS action. Law of diminishing returns.
ElfeGER Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 11:03:00 - [360] some points on drones: - fighter amount bonus should be converted to dmg/hp bonus (max 5 drones) - dcu should be converted to drone dmg mod or they would be overpowered - normal combat drones rof needs adjustment (2 sec on every light, medium and heavy combat drone should be something like 3, 5, 7 seconds while keeping dps the same) - drone collisions should be removed (launching 500 idle drones might not lag the server to death but add cpu usage as well)



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