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Kirov VIII	Posted - 2007.09.12 21:29:00 - [1] CCP, I refresh a little your memory. Read your own dev blog : Here I quote somes sentences : Quote: Amarr needs oomph. Still waiting for oomph ... Quote: problems that plague Amarr. The biggest one in my opinion is the popularity of so called omni tank. Not really corrected Quote: The Amarr were supposed to be the capacitor race No change ! Quote: Of course that is totally dependant on how we're "overhauling" nosferatus. Remplace nosferatu by neutralizer. The problem is the same => no more cap Quote: People say that beams are too hard to fit and in general, I agree. You have modifier only ONE BEAM turret ! Quote: Khanid MK2 It's ok but you have remplaced all turrets by launchers. It's good but don't correct other amarr ship ... Quote: Which ships you might ask? Well, Armageddon might need some fitting help, the cruisers aren't really that great and Apocalypse might get a bit of a role twist. It's really easy : no change on both BS, no change on all cruisers CCP, you await what ? You have about 25% of the game which really need something and you make nothing ! You have only corrected a very old nerfl (2years, may be more). The 50% reduce of the pulse range without any bonus. Amarr need always oomph ! If one gallente by example say : Amarr are overpowered. You can change the damage of the laser by hybrid and give our very good em/thermal damage to gallente for laught ? ********************************************* For me, it's almost not possible to correct the laser without change damage or rebalance all resists and it's probably too much job for you ... The laser should be supposed pierce all materials no ? You can try to put all damages on lenses with very low damage for correct the problem of this crap em damage on most player/npc ships.
Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.12 21:42:00 - [2] yay i thought the amarr whine was dead but obviously not. While we are here though i would ask that something be done about 80% of amarr ships having one of their bonuses tied up in the laser cap use bonus and something be done about long range ammo only doing EM as that makes amarr a little weak at sniping.
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech	Posted - 2007.09.12 21:43:00 - [3] yeah, an omni-damage type laser would be cool. maybe call it a "phaser" or "disruptor" or something... and it could use enough cap that only amarr ships with laser bonuses would be able to make proper use of them. ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Redglare's Demise Blood Corsair's The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:13:00 - [4] Considering any laser boat wastes one bonus just to be able to USE lasers... Lasers need some kind of boost.
Nex Angelus Caldari Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:19:00 - [5] Edited by: Nex Angelus on 12/09/2007 23:20:02 Tbh, I never had a problem with the gankageddon, the one ship that made me fear Amarr... Now all Amarr ships is up for grabs (especially since you nerfed the Curse) Edit: and I'm Caldari specced ffs... the non-PvP race
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:33:00 - [6] Edited by: Kazuma Saruwatari on 12/09/2007 23:33:54 Lasers need a boost, and badly ever since Amarr was created. Seriously, having nearly all ships having a bonus to laser cap use just shows how badly lasers need a boost. Amarr ships are fine, cept when you put lasers on them. And even if you are mad enough to spec amarr up to lvl5-everything, Amarr are still suffering cap issues, to the point they're a non-issue also due to EM/Therm damage outputs. the only consolation with Amarr is that when the target is not tanking em/therm (and by god wtf was he thinking?!), they can melt it and melt it fast. Now, put the same situation against someone who knows how to tank against amarr, and you'll see 9/10's of the time Amarr either run out of cap and die, take too long and die, or just die. - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Daelorn State War Academy	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:38:00 - [7] Unbalance is more fun. Unless you're Amarr »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
Arachidamia The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:54:00 - [8] Even making some of the crystals do more thermal than em damage would be a welcome step in the right direction. All the issues with amarr come down to lasers really. They have cap problems, fitting problems and damage type problems. And not much in return. Something needs to be done
Amy Wang	Posted - 2007.09.13 00:01:00 - [9] Originally by: Redglare's Demise Considering any laser boat wastes one bonus just to be able to USE lasers... Lasers need some kind of boost. So what? Projectile boats waste one bonus to up the dps to a bit less then pathetic levels, thats just how it works: ship bonuses making up for weaknesses of racial weapons
esclavegalllente	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:00:00 - [10] i agree kirov , ccp put the heavy assault missile launcher on the sacrilege because it accepts that the laser aren't balanced
Terianna Eri Amarr STK Scientific M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Amy Wang Originally by: Redglare's Demise Considering any laser boat wastes one bonus just to be able to USE lasers... Lasers need some kind of boost. So what? Projectile boats waste one bonus to up the dps to a bit less then pathetic levels, thats just how it works: ship bonuses making up for weaknesses of racial weapons What about the optimal range bonuses on caldari railguns? What about the damage and tracking bonuses on blasters? I thought that Minmatar had double damage bonii on lots of their ships so that they could get as much damage out of 6 slots as other ships could out of 8, which let them use their additional highs for other stuff, being the 'versatility' race. __________________________________
annoing Amarr MisFunk Inc. Frontline.	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:44:00 - [12] If I had known Amarr was so crap I would have never created this amarr character all those years ago. Cant fight and tank at the same time. Lasers are weak. Cap usage is perversly way out of synch. More armour? Big deal, means nothing if you cant tank it. I fly Ravens now because I can simply run 4 shield hardeners and 7 launchers and NEVER run out of cap when I rat. As for PVP I have to use covert or stealth Aamarr because you cant battle in anything else for fear of cap drain. Never mind, instead of fixing the game and equalising the races, we can walk around stations, order drinks and choose new clothes.. how exciting is that yawn PS: CCP GM's etc never read this stuff, and if they do they give a wry smile and forget it instantly. Developers dont develop, bug hunters dont hunt, customer service ignores customers and we all ignored. Welcome to Eve.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.09.15 22:08:00 - [13] What kills me in all this time is CCP saw fit to buff the Gallente Deimos and will soon be buffing drone ships: Originally by: CCP Oveur Bandwidth referenced here is not in reference to your internet connection. It's to un-nerf specialized drone ships and allow more differentation between ships. WTF? Deimos maybe needed a bit of a tweak but Amarr have been waiting FAR longer. And "un-nerf" drone ships? Huh? Is that because there has been a rampaging cry from Gallente that they are nerfed and need help? Because in the tournament all those Ishtars and such were so awful? Because Dominixes are used less than Apocalypse? Yeah...Gallente have been SO hurting. Look, maybe these changes are good ones but Amarr have been borked for ages. Gallente are THE preferred PvP ship choice. Frankly if they had one semi-nerfed ship in the Deimos tough. Amarr have pretty much their entire line of ships in need of help.
Cpt Constantinus PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.15 22:13:00 - [14] Edited by: Cpt Constantinus on 15/09/2007 22:13:09 A small boost would be nice indeed. Especialy the Apoc needs some serious help. The Maller and the Omen too. Regarding the capdrain in pvp...try a passive tanked Geddon for group pvp. Works fine and you will rarely run out of cap.
Titus Lewis Absolutely No Return The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.09.15 23:38:00 - [15] CCP, please fix lasers. Thanks Freedom is Slavery
Oedus Caro Caldari Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.09.16 00:16:00 - [16] Look, I agree that Amarr needs some more loving, but don't be in such a rush to bite their heads off because the changes thus far are unsatisfactory. The last thing CCP wants to do is to boost Amarr from worst race to best race, so they're going to do it in baby steps. They've said as much explicitly; calm down and be patient for it.
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.09.16 00:30:00 - [17] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h What kills me in all this time is CCP saw fit to buff the Gallente Deimos and will soon be buffing drone ships: Originally by: CCP Oveur Bandwidth referenced here is not in reference to your internet connection. It's to un-nerf specialized drone ships and allow more differentation between ships. WTF? Deimos maybe needed a bit of a tweak but Amarr have been waiting FAR longer. And "un-nerf" drone ships? Huh? Is that because there has been a rampaging cry from Gallente that they are nerfed and need help? Because in the tournament all those Ishtars and such were so awful? Because Dominixes are used less than Apocalypse? Yeah...Gallente have been SO hurting. Look, maybe these changes are good ones but Amarr have been borked for ages. Gallente are THE preferred PvP ship choice. Frankly if they had one semi-nerfed ship in the Deimos tough. Amarr have pretty much their entire line of ships in need of help. read the 'geddon will no longer be able to field 5 heavies.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.09.16 00:36:00 - [18] Originally by: Audri Fisher read the 'geddon will no longer be able to field 5 heavies. Most likely it will still be able to field 5 heavies. The feature is designed to make it so that dedicated drone ships can have more replacements without letting them field drones too big for their size class. The vexor is a prime example of this. Increasing its drone bay would let you use a full load of heavies and that's just not going to happen but with bandwidth it will be fine. So the major change is that gallente ships and more specifically drone-specialised ships will get larger drone bays and their DPS will be reigned in a bit on any ship where it's out of balance like perhaps the myrmidon. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.09.16 00:42:00 - [19] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Imperator Jora'h What kills me in all this time is CCP saw fit to buff the Gallente Deimos and will soon be buffing drone ships: Originally by: CCP Oveur Bandwidth referenced here is not in reference to your internet connection. It's to un-nerf specialized drone ships and allow more differentation between ships. WTF? Deimos maybe needed a bit of a tweak but Amarr have been waiting FAR longer. And "un-nerf" drone ships? Huh? Is that because there has been a rampaging cry from Gallente that they are nerfed and need help? Because in the tournament all those Ishtars and such were so awful? Because Dominixes are used less than Apocalypse? Yeah...Gallente have been SO hurting. Look, maybe these changes are good ones but Amarr have been borked for ages. Gallente are THE preferred PvP ship choice. Frankly if they had one semi-nerfed ship in the Deimos tough. Amarr have pretty much their entire line of ships in need of help. read the 'geddon will no longer be able to field 5 heavies. And thus, a stealth nerf to Gallente (which needs it, more or less) and Amarr (which doesnt need it). Seriously, CCP, Lasers need work, lots of work. Amarr are fine as armor-tanking melters, and not versatility. Amarr are one-railed as is in design focus, with lasers this just flat-out restricts them all the more, to either full gank with EM/Therm, or flat-out tank. Gallente can do Amarr's job way better, without drone use. - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Cosmo Raata Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.16 01:15:00 - [20] signed-- Over the last year & 1/2 of amarr being broken I have cross trained to gallante and still haven't gone back. Still waiting on laser/non-khanid fixes. I must say ccp did a very good job with khanid but I'm still training to use missles.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.16 02:56:00 - [21] Y'know, it would be nice if my True Amarr character who lives in Amarr space and is pretty much all-Amarr, all the time, would be better off flying a beam boat than Caldari ships, or Calmarr... m'bad, KHANID ships. (Not that I'm complaining about Khanid Mk2. TYVM for that one, seriously.)
Bellum Eternus Gallente Blood Corsair's The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.09.16 03:31:00 - [22] Just finished training up T2 pulse for my Abaddon on Sisi. Wow, these things are awesome. Rips right through a Dominix tank no sweat. HACs and Command Ships where the EM resists are really low just get mangled by it, since most people armor tank, and the first thing they protect is their explosive resist hole. Passive armor tank is just insane as well. With my HG slaves on TQ I'm looking at over 44k armor easy. That's nuts. With dual injectors and a great optimal, I can keep fighting for quite a while as long as I don't get ECMed. 2-3 heavy neutralizers really hurt my cap, but nos just isn't the problem it used to be. Neuts are pretty scary, but if you time your booster cycles right, you can use up most of your cap before the next neut cycle hits. Just make sure you're fully passive tanked with a DC instead of any active hardeners, so your tank doesn't shut off due to lack of cap. Haven't tried the Harbinger much yet, but from the looks of it, it should get some really good DPS with maxed gunnery skills. The laser optimal is great. Too bad I don't have access to faction multifrequency crystals on Sisi at the moment. That's another 15% free DPS. Bellum Eternus [Vid]Blood Corsairs - Day One
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.16 03:36:00 - [23] Here's my idea for a simple, effective way to boost Amarr. Firstly, implement a "racial bonus" on all ships. This is an RP bonus that reflects the ship design's origin. These bonuses are something like as follows: Amarr: 40% reduction in capacitor need of energy turrets. Caldari: 25% reduction in missile launcher CPU requirements Gallente: 10% reduction in hybrid turret CPU and Powergrid requirements. Minmatar: 25% reduction in projectile turret powergrid requirements. (Note: I just made these up on the spot. The actual values would probably need tweaking in the intersts of game fairness) These are fixed constants across the board on all ships of that race. Now that that's out of the way, we look at giving the amarrians an actual second bonus to their ship. here's some suggestions: Executioner: 5% increase per level to base speed. Punisher: 5% increase per level in small energy turret rate of fire Omen: 5% increase per level in medium energy turret damage Maller: 5% increase per level to armour HP Armageddon: 10% increase per level in large energy turret optimal range Apocalypse: 5% increase per level to armour HP. Abaddon: no change. note that it has the racial bonus now, however. The thing is that this does NOTHING to fix the damage types, or even the balance of the amarrian ships - but what it does generally do is allow them to fire faster, or hit harder. Lasers don't necessarily need to have more base damage coming out of their ammo - but with the right bonuses in place they can still be competetive. All the other races, of course, already have two bonuses per ship - this way, they get a beneficial extra effect that usually serves the purpose of making them easier to fit. Everyone gets something, it's like Christmas. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Chainsaw Plankton	Posted - 2007.09.16 04:09:00 - [24] Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 16/09/2007 04:09:20 needs oomph, yes yes it does, omni tank. here is where i am confused. Doesnt omni tank refer to a tank with high resists to everything. and doesnt that hurt every race equally. what does hurt amarr is the EANM+DC tank 80 em 60-70ish everything else. cap race, slightly better capamount/cap recharge rates? everything can be capped out. beams, yes quite hard to fit. maelstrom has same pg and better cpu then an abaddon? Khanid MK2, some nice changes but white elephant geddon got some more cpu. apoc got nothing, crusiers got nothing (well curse and pilgrim got "nerfed")
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.09.16 04:24:00 - [25] A simple boost to Amarr would be to cut the cap usage of lasers by 40-50% and replace the cap reduction on laser "bonus" with a +5% to cap capacity bonus (like the Apoc's). This fits in RP-wise since Amarr is supposed to be "the cap race". Really, a nice boost that won't overpower Amarr. Another simple boost would be to massively raise the thermal damage while massively decreasing the EM damage on laser crystals. Ship design rigidity (the Amarrian way of doing things, after all) is not a problem if you are doing the best damage type with your guns instead of the worst one. This is so simple that I simply don't understand why CCP hasn't done this yet. Besides, why in heaven's name would a laser, a beam of concentrated light, do more EM damage than thermal in the first place? As for oomph, well, I'd be perfectly glad to play a simple, rigid race if the ships actually performed the way they are supposed to.
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.09.16 04:28:00 - [26] Amarr is the capOUT race. I like a lot of the Amarr ships, but certain things like the Zealot being one of the weakest dps HACs in the game is kinda silly. I get a whopping 320dps with t2 heavy pulse and 3x dmg mods. Meanwhile my Ishtar has slots for EW and does 466dps without even using dmg mods.
UGWidowmaker Caldari The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.09.16 05:45:00 - [27] amarr sucks...nothingmore to say rely... OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.09.16 06:13:00 - [28] Originally by: Stitcher Here's my idea for a simple, effective way to boost Amarr. Firstly, implement a "racial bonus" on all ships. This is an RP bonus that reflects the ship design's origin. These bonuses are something like as follows: Amarr: 40% reduction in capacitor need of energy turrets. Caldari: 25% reduction in missile launcher CPU requirements Gallente: 10% reduction in hybrid turret CPU and Powergrid requirements. Minmatar: 25% reduction in projectile turret powergrid requirements. (Note: I just made these up on the spot. The actual values would probably need tweaking in the intersts of game fairness) This man speaks wisdom, CCP... Listen to it - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Ridjeck Thome The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.16 10:58:00 - [29] @ OP: thank-you...i was only wondering if REV3 would cover the promised Amarr changes at all. it would be nice to hear if there are any proposed changes to Amarr.
Senghir Amarr Deep Space Security	Posted - 2007.09.16 11:44:00 - [30] I too would like to see us get the changes which were talked about in the dev blog earlier this year. The blog said it was due for over the summer, but all I've seen is a Khanid boost, which isn't enough as firstly they aren't Tech 1 ships and therefore only affect those pilots wanting to go specialised in an area, and secondly it's only one of the three ship companies for Amarr. Another pilot said to me recently that a good change to make Amarr lasers better would be to simply reduce the standard EM armour resist, thereby not having to worry about what damage types the lasers are doing and affects everyone including Amarr on the armour. Anyway, I'm not too fussed about what changes we get as long as we get something. Our race sucks more than others at the moment and no-one disagrees. I mean take a look at other MMORPGs, no-one can agree on anything as far as class balance goes, but here in EVE you have a game where even the other races think Amarr need some love so you really do have an issue here.

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