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mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2007.09.17 10:15:00 - [61] Originally by: Tareen Kashaar I fly Amarr. Amarr are fine. Crosstrain some other races, m'dears. Every race has their drawbacks and strengths. Amarr actually rule pretty hard. Amarr is not broken in terms of T2(except the zealot) its their classic ships that are falling behind. -YOU ARE NOW READING MY SIGNATURE- EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.09.17 10:56:00 - [62] Edited by: Kazuma Saruwatari on 17/09/2007 10:56:32 There's a reason why only the t2 amarr ships get praise so far in this thread. See any T1 praise besides the Abbadon? Gallente, give praise to nearly all of it's t1 and t2 lineup. Caldari, give praise to it's t2 lineup, the Rokh, Raven, Caracal, Drake, Blackbird. Mimmatar, give praise. Period. See something missing? - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Neo Rainhart Caldari Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2007.09.17 11:49:00 - [63] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Edited by: Kazuma Saruwatari on 17/09/2007 10:56:32 There's a reason why only the t2 amarr ships get praise so far in this thread. See any T1 praise besides the Abbadon? Gallente, give praise to nearly all of it's t1 and t2 lineup. Caldari, give praise to it's t2 lineup, the Rokh, Raven, Caracal, Drake, Blackbird. Mimmatar, give praise. Period. See something missing? T1 amarr huh? An arbitrator can pwn all t1 gunships (thorax, rupture etc) pretty hard anytime Besides that, geddon, punisher, prophecy with AC's, Gank harbinger...there i filled the missing part for you
Weryl	Posted - 2007.09.17 12:25:00 - [64] The market doesn't lie ... you can buy mega pulse and mega beam best named lasers for close to 1/10th the price of every other races best named weapon systems ...I personally have been buying faction mega beams and pulses for what I've seen other races tech 1 named guns selling for ...
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.17 13:05:00 - [65] Originally by: Neo Rainhart T1 amarr huh? An arbitrator can pwn all t1 gunships (thorax, rupture etc) pretty hard anytime Besides that, geddon, punisher, prophecy with AC's, Gank harbinger...there i filled the missing part for you No, it cant. Its good, but it cant.
Arachidamia The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.17 13:30:00 - [66] Originally by: Weryl The market doesn't lie ... you can buy mega pulse and mega beam best named lasers for close to 1/10th the price of every other races best named weapon systems ...I personally have been buying faction mega beams and pulses for what I've seen other races tech 1 named guns selling for ... Good luck trying that with cruiser weapons. Ever seen how expensive named focused medium pulse is? Kind of odd that tech2 focused mediums are about 400k, yet the decent named focused mediums are many millions each.
General StarScream Cybertronic Decepticons	Posted - 2007.09.17 13:35:00 - [67] Amarr dont need anything. they got there percks. as for the lame reson that everyone tanks Em And therm thats bs. most people have 71/71/80/80 so with that logic, gallante is the one that needs a boost in Dam. atlest for blasters. Amarr is just fine, and got alot of boost, far more than they needed. they dont need ammo, they can change range crystals at will with allmost no reload time. [
zilllii	Posted - 2007.09.17 13:44:00 - [68] Originally by: General StarScream Amarr dont need anything. they got there percks. as for the lame reson that everyone tanks Em And therm thats bs. most people have 71/71/80/80 so with that logic, gallante is the one that needs a boost in Dam. atlest for blasters. Amarr is just fine, and got alot of boost, far more than they needed. they dont need ammo, they can change range crystals at will with allmost no reload time. here you dropped your bag of *********
Sleepkevert Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.17 14:05:00 - [69] Originally by: General StarScream they can change range crystals at will with allmost no reload time. Oh and guess what, we almost need to every 10 seconds because of the crappy fallof laser guns have... Sign my sig
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.09.17 14:07:00 - [70] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 17/09/2007 14:09:54 "Well Jitas a lagfest, drones arn't to par. I just can't digest, this going too far." They whine about this, they whine about that. Their taking the wizz, in the I R C chat! But there's still a whine, that i do always adore, So had to do a little rhyme! Just so it's not a bore! Don't have to go far, it's so good to hear! They whine 'bout Amarr, So christmas is near! My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
infraX Caldari Endgame. Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.09.17 14:30:00 - [71] I fly all 4 races, split 2 races over 2 main characters. I am not biased. Take the 3 tier 2 gunboat battleships with BS V: The Tempest gets 25% ROF bonus & 25% damage to projectiles. The Megathron gets 25% Tracking bonus & 25% damage to hybrids. The Apocalypse gets 50% cap bonus to lasers & 25% overall cap bonus. The reason for these is to encourage the use of the 'correct' racial turret types on their respective ships. Without the bonuses, the turret is supposed to be unusable unless you use it on the correct ship: Projectiles ROF would be too slow. Hybrids Tracking would be inferior. Lasers cap usage would be insane. The turrets are balanced and the relevant ship bonuses for the Tier 2 battleships offset their default disadvantages. Otherwise everyone would just fit 'turret of the month' (tm). Now stop whinging because lasers 'only' get a cap bonus. Perhaps the default damage is high enough not to warrant a damage bonus on the ship, just as lasers tracking is high enough not to warrant a tracking bonus, and lasers ROF is high enough not to warrant a ROF bonus. CCP could reduce the base damage of lasers by 25% and then give the apoc a 5% per level damage to lasers while reducing the base cap usage to compensate. What's the difference? It all adds up to the same thing with proper skills.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.09.17 17:27:00 - [72] Originally by: General StarScream Amarr dont need anything. they got there percks. as for the lame reson that everyone tanks Em And therm thats bs. most people have 71/71/80/80 so with that logic, gallante is the one that needs a boost in Dam. atlest for blasters. Amarr is just fine, and got alot of boost, far more than they needed. they dont need ammo, they can change range crystals at will with allmost no reload time. Can I buy pot from you?
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.09.17 21:09:00 - [73] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Audri Fisher read the 'geddon will no longer be able to field 5 heavies. Most likely it will still be able to field 5 heavies. The feature is designed to make it so that dedicated drone ships can have more replacements without letting them field drones too big for their size class. The vexor is a prime example of this. Increasing its drone bay would let you use a full load of heavies and that's just not going to happen but with bandwidth it will be fine. So the major change is that gallente ships and more specifically drone-specialised ships will get larger drone bays and their DPS will be reigned in a bit on any ship where it's out of balance like perhaps the myrmidon. It's ammar, it will be nerfed.
Kirov VIII	Posted - 2007.09.18 17:50:00 - [74] C C P The players can't change turret/ship/damage/... You are alone and please WORK ON THE AMARR RACE ! It's 25% of your game which you ignore. Why change graphic effect of the laser if nobody use these turrets ? Stop all other things and balance ONE time the amarr ! I'm sure, it's very quick if all staff work on them.
Nihilo Deus Amarr Russian SOBR Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:07:00 - [75] Edited by: Nihilo Deus on 17/10/2007 14:13:31 Aah. Nwm
Tokra	Posted - 2007.10.17 15:37:00 - [76] Originally by: infraX I fly all 4 races, split 2 races over 2 main characters. I am not biased. Take the 3 tier 2 gunboat battleships with BS V: The Tempest gets 25% ROF bonus & 25% damage to projectiles. The Megathron gets 25% Tracking bonus & 25% damage to hybrids. The Apocalypse gets 50% cap bonus to lasers & 25% overall cap bonus. The reason for these is to encourage the use of the 'correct' racial turret types on their respective ships. Without the bonuses, the turret is supposed to be unusable unless you use it on the correct ship: Projectiles ROF would be too slow. Hybrids Tracking would be inferior. Lasers cap usage would be insane. The turrets are balanced and the relevant ship bonuses for the Tier 2 battleships offset their default disadvantages. Otherwise everyone would just fit 'turret of the month' (tm). Now stop whinging because lasers 'only' get a cap bonus. Perhaps the default damage is high enough not to warrant a damage bonus on the ship, just as lasers tracking is high enough not to warrant a tracking bonus, and lasers ROF is high enough not to warrant a ROF bonus. CCP could reduce the base damage of lasers by 25% and then give the apoc a 5% per level damage to lasers while reducing the base cap usage to compensate. What's the difference? It all adds up to the same thing with proper skills. And now the question. Why use Lasers on the Apocalypse? Using projectiles will give you all the cap for the tank and leave all other slots free for what you want. Instead of still having to equip (even with the 50% less cap use for lasers) cap modules just to fire your weapons becauce they still need way to much cap. If you ever can mount these PG eating monsters. Amarr ships are nice, untill you fit lasers on them :). And that is the problem with Amarr. Its not (mostly not) the problem with the ships. Its the lasers that make the problems. I am Amarr. And loved the ships, untill i used a drake (i am doing missions and not PVP). That really speaks for itself. I have 5.5 million sp in gunnery (all up to large pulse and beam spec) and dont even use them anymore.
Endaros System-Lords Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.17 16:25:00 - [77] Edited by: Endaros on 17/10/2007 16:27:14 Edited by: Endaros on 17/10/2007 16:26:45 Lasers? On an Apoc? Let's check the numbers, shall we... Apoc with 8x Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflag, 3x Heat Sink II, All level 5 skills: Volley Damage: 3223 Damage per Second: 743 Cap Usage: 34.6cap/s Optimal Cap Recharge: 26cap/s Time to No Cap: 10m 55s Apoc with 8x Neutron II, Void, 3x Mag Stab II, All level 5 skills: Volley Damage: 3760 Damage per Second: 843 Cap Usage: 31.5cap/s Optimal Cap Recharge: 26cap/s Time to No Cap: 14m 50s Apoc with 8x 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail, 3x Gyro II, All level 5 skills: Volley Damage: 2895 Damage per Second: 643 Cap Usage: 0cap/s Optimal Cap Recharge: 26cap/s Time to No Cap: Infinate So the differences? Neutrons: Volley Damage: +537 Damage per Second: +100 Cap Usage: -3.1cap/s Added Time to No Cap: 3m 55s 800s: Volley Damage: -328 Damage per Second: -100 Cap Usage: -34.6cap/s Added Time to No Cap: Infinate Confirming then, that if you want DPS on the Apoc, use Neutrons, and you get more cap as well... If you want infinate cap on the Apoc (ie what the bonuses SHOULD give), go for Autocannons, and you only lose 100 DPS! Okay, maybe it's not fair to compare guns on one ship, we've proved that the Apoc sucks for cap, so let's compare it's DPS versus other tier 2 BS... A recap on the original figures: Apoc with 8x Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflag, 3x Heat Sink II, All level 5 skills: Volley Damage: 3223 Damage per Second: 743 Cap Usage: 34.6cap/s And then: Mega with 7x Neutron II, Void, 3x Mag Stab II, All level 5 skills: Volley Damage: 4113 (+890) Damage per Second: 922 (+179) Cap Usage: 27.6cap/s (-7 Pest with 6x 800mm II, Hail, 3x Gyro II, All level 5 skills: Volley Damage: 2714 (-509) Damage per Second: 794 (+51) Raven with 6x Siege II, Rage, 3x BCS II, All level 5 skills: Volley Damage: 5630 (+2407) Damage per Second: 697 (-46) Bear in mind here, that the Megathron (which outshines every single BS) still has one free highslot, and the Tempest and Raven have two free highslots. Plus neither the pest nor raven need cap to fire guns, so can fire indefinately. As proved before, despite it's bonuses, the Apoc can only sustain fire for 10 minutes 55 seconds before capping out. Okay, so we've decided that the Apoc sucks for both DPS and cap (despite the fact that lasers are meant to have the highest DPS, and Amarr are "supposed to be the capacitor race"), so what is there left to check? EW capabilities! The Tempest and Raven both have more midslots, so that leaves the Megathron. A true comparison here... Well, as discussed the Mega has a free highslot, so can fit an energy neutraliser for EW as well as it's existing 4 mids. Everything else being equal between the two ships, the Megathron wins here also... So what's left? Tank ability? Well again, the Megathron has the same number of lowslots for all-out tanking than the Apocalypse does, so they're even... The Tempest is slightly worse off here, having one less slot with which to tank (but an extra midslot for EW, and TWO free highslots for neuts), and the Raven also only has 6 slots for a tank, but being a midslot tanker, the Raven can also fit damage mods, and therefore do both jobs at once, another thing that the Apoc fails at. So it has an average comparable tank, worse DPS, worse cap management... So what else can we test? The Apoc is a useless machine! Apoc with lasers is worse than Apoc with Neutrons in any way you look at it... The bonuses do not give it an advantage over any other ships, and it even fails at being a tank boat (AKA a lump of metal in space). So where's that role change? EDIT: Oh, and the Apoc also costs more to build than any other tier 2 BS...
Tokra	Posted - 2007.10.17 16:32:00 - [78] You forgot the most important role for the apoc. The mining factor. Thats the true role for Amarr, having a great mining BS... ;)
meateggsandowls	Posted - 2007.10.17 16:44:00 - [79] It is 20% of the game if you consider the number of miners in ORE ships.
Endaros System-Lords Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.17 16:49:00 - [80] Originally by: Tokra You forgot the most important role for the apoc. The mining factor. Thats the true role for Amarr, having a great mining BS... ;) Considering miners mine in all tier of BS, I'll just go through them. All level 5 skills, maximum number of mining lasers, maximum number of laser upgrades with CPU enhancers in. Ore yield per minute: Rokh: 1045 Abaddon: 1019 Maelstron: 1019 Hyperion: 1019 Apocalypse: 970 Megathron: 915 Armageddon: 915 Dominix: 791 Tempest: 784 Typhoon: 529 Raven: 528 Scorpion: 523 So before the introduction of the tier 3 BS, the Apoc was the best mining boat out there, but now it's inferior to all tier 3 BS, and the best mining boat is the Rokh! So Amarr lose yet another maths battle... Oh, and every single BS can field 5 Harvester mining bots, so that figure doesn't matter! ... I can't believe I just worked out the maths for that, I feel so dirty...
iiOs	Posted - 2007.10.17 16:55:00 - [81] most amarr ships have this useless high slot, move it to med:) that would be a start Click me and get isk
Tokra	Posted - 2007.10.17 16:56:00 - [82] You really had to burst my last bubble in hope for Amarr ships, hadnt you?
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.17 17:20:00 - [83] Funny how CCP "boosted" Amarr by giving us ships that use missiles. :D Fix the damn laserboats already! I admit Abaddon is nice, but what about all the others? Freakin a
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.10.17 17:42:00 - [84] Edited by: Cpt Fina on 17/10/2007 17:42:25 Originally by: Endaros Edited by: Endaros on 17/10/2007 16:27:14 Edited by: Endaros on 17/10/2007 16:26:45 Interesting facts Why don't you include optimal range in your calculations?
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.17 17:52:00 - [85] Edited by: Megadon on 17/10/2007 17:53:21 Aye Amarr need some love just on the cap front imo. A new weapon type might be in order. Something like "Pulse Cannons". They would be short range, high damage weapons that used less cap than todays pulses. Similar to autocannons. KAKOW!!!! --------------
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.10.17 18:09:00 - [86] Originally by: Tokra Originally by: infraX I fly all 4 races, split 2 races over 2 main characters. I am not biased. Take the 3 tier 2 gunboat battleships with BS V: The Tempest gets 25% ROF bonus & 25% damage to projectiles. The Megathron gets 25% Tracking bonus & 25% damage to hybrids. The Apocalypse gets 50% cap bonus to lasers & 25% overall cap bonus. The reason for these is to encourage the use of the 'correct' racial turret types on their respective ships. Without the bonuses, the turret is supposed to be unusable unless you use it on the correct ship: Projectiles ROF would be too slow. Hybrids Tracking would be inferior. Lasers cap usage would be insane. The turrets are balanced and the relevant ship bonuses for the Tier 2 battleships offset their default disadvantages. Otherwise everyone would just fit 'turret of the month' (tm). Now stop whinging because lasers 'only' get a cap bonus. Perhaps the default damage is high enough not to warrant a damage bonus on the ship, just as lasers tracking is high enough not to warrant a tracking bonus, and lasers ROF is high enough not to warrant a ROF bonus. CCP could reduce the base damage of lasers by 25% and then give the apoc a 5% per level damage to lasers while reducing the base cap usage to compensate. What's the difference? It all adds up to the same thing with proper skills. And now the question. Why use Lasers on the Apocalypse? Using projectiles will give you all the cap for the tank and leave all other slots free for what you want. Thats fine, you want to keep your tank at significantly reduced DPS. Just like if I wanted to slap some pew pew on my typhoon for increase gun damage, I am going to sacrifice mid slots for cap rechargers. Actually, I am going to stick lasers on my phoon just to try that out! hehe! _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Cygnus Zhada Amarr UK Corp	Posted - 2007.10.17 18:13:00 - [87] WTB race respec to Minmatar. Welcome to EVE Online: Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online
Myra2007	Posted - 2007.10.17 18:13:00 - [88] Edited by: Myra2007 on 17/10/2007 18:14:22 Originally by: infraX I fly all 4 races, split 2 races over 2 main characters. I am not biased. Ok. Originally by: infraX Take the 3 tier 2 gunboat battleships with BS V: The Tempest gets 25% ROF bonus & 25% damage to projectiles. The Megathron gets 25% Tracking bonus & 25% damage to hybrids. The Apocalypse gets 50% cap bonus to lasers & 25% overall cap bonus. Exactly, thats their bonuses. Originally by: infraX The reason for these is to encourage the use of the 'correct' racial turret types on their respective ships. Without the bonuses, the turret is supposed to be unusable unless you use it on the correct ship: Projectiles ROF would be too slow. Hybrids Tracking would be inferior. Lasers cap usage would be insane. Blaster tracking is better than pulse tracking. Its only beams/rails where its the other way around. So, that thing doesn't really fly. Originally by: infraX The turrets are balanced and the relevant ship bonuses for the Tier 2 battleships offset their default disadvantages. That argument is inconsistent as shown above. Also you do realize all but 1 laser ship do have the cap bonus but not all hybrid ships got a tracking bonus, right? Your analogies stink. Originally by: infraX Otherwise everyone would just fit 'turret of the month' (tm). Which certainly wouldn't be lasers. Apart from that you do know many people fit turrets of the month (read projectiles) on amarr ships? And they do better than with lasers without your "necessary" rof bonus! Originally by: infraX Now stop whinging because lasers 'only' get a cap bonus. Perhaps the default damage is high enough not to warrant a damage bonus on the ship, just as lasers tracking is high enough not to warrant a tracking bonus, and lasers ROF is high enough not to warrant a ROF bonus. Yes, or perhaps laser default damage is just not high enough to justify only a cap bonus? And pulses have the worst tracking of all close range weapons. You talk like there were only blasters or only pulses when in reality every race has 2 different kind of turrets. Beams have other problems then pulses. Whats important for one turret isnt for another, still you pretend laser tracking or damage would be high in general which is just ignorant. Also if laser dmg is so omguberwtfbbq (please note blaster base dmg > pulse base dmg) why do we have ships with either rof or dmg bonus anyway? Originally by: infraX CCP could reduce the base damage of lasers by 25% and then give the apoc a 5% per level damage to lasers while reducing the base cap usage to compensate. What's the difference? It all adds up to the same thing with proper skills. Yes, and the thing is crap. Maybe you are not biased but you are uninformed. The fact that you try to argue how fine amarr ships are with of all ships (omg) the apoc as example shows you have no clue about amarr ships. You take one look at the bonus and say its ok. Maybe investigate fitting possibilities? Maybe compare dps/tank/versatility against other ships of the same class? No, that would be too much of work. I wouldn't bother either if i was flying gallente, i guess.
Aralt Aran	Posted - 2007.10.17 18:20:00 - [89] Remove the amarr race from eve please,most eve players will never fly those golden ships.Reduce amarr space ,because they didn`t want it anyway.Make it caldari space.
Ryas Nia Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.10.17 18:44:00 - [90] Edited by: Ryas Nia on 17/10/2007 18:44:41 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Neo Rainhart T1 amarr huh? An arbitrator can pwn all t1 gunships (thorax, rupture etc) pretty hard anytime Besides that, geddon, punisher, prophecy with AC's, Gank harbinger...there i filled the missing part for you No, it cant. Its good, but it cant. Linkage Yes it can

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