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Vrabac Amarr BALKAN EXPRESS	Posted - 2007.09.16 11:53:00 - [31] The Khanid mk2, geddon cpu and few other minor changes did help amarr slightly, but it's not what the core of the problem is. Amarr arent such a bad race once they HEAVILY specialize. They can do wicked damage. They can have very tough tanks. Problem is they can't have effective mixture of those 2, while many other ships of other races, namely Gallente, can. Problam lies IMHO in 1-bonus layout of majority of the ships. On the other hand if they would recieve 2nd bonus of high value (lets say armor resist bonus on harbinger instead of cap bonus, or rof bonus on punisher or something like that) it would actually make most of them too strong, except for those really useless ships like Omen or Apoc. Problem is pretty complex, and imho can't be resolved in one single attempt. Maybe the way ccp is taking with gradual boosts/nerfs is the right way to go, we can only wait and see.
Mashie Saldana Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.09.16 11:56:00 - [32] If Amarr is so badly broken, why am I crosstraining for an Absolution right now? Light Assault Launchers & Defender FoF ideas
Senghir Amarr Deep Space Security	Posted - 2007.09.16 12:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Mashie Saldana If Amarr is so badly broken, why am I crosstraining for an Absolution right now? I think only you know the answer to that. It's a pointless question imo. It doesnt benefit the thread in any way except to perhaps hint that you disagree with Amarr needing a buff. If that's what you mean, say it.
Bon Hedus Amarr O.E.C Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.09.16 12:04:00 - [34] Originally by: Mashie Saldana If Amarr is so badly broken, why am I crosstraining for an Absolution right now? Because the Absolution is a great ship. Why don't you cross train to fly the Curse/Pilgrim, now that NOS has been nerfed. How about Training to fly the Amarr BS's with all the issues that have been brought up? How about Training to fly the Guardian? Or how about the Amarr EW ships? (oh wait, we don't have those) Cross training to fly 1 ship means absolutely jack. Try the rest of the ships in the Amarr line. -------------------------------------- Heavy Lag Spike II belonging to EvE Cluster Node #0815 hits your Connection, wrecking your latency to 998ms
Mashie Saldana Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.09.16 12:18:00 - [35] Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Mashie Saldana If Amarr is so badly broken, why am I crosstraining for an Absolution right now? I think only you know the answer to that. It's a pointless question imo. It doesnt benefit the thread in any way except to perhaps hint that you disagree with Amarr needing a buff. If that's what you mean, say it. To be honest, every race want their stuff buffed until they have the I-win button. Before the nos nerf I didn't hear any Curse pilots complain about Amarr ships being crap. Light Assault Launchers & Defender FoF ideas
Mrs Crow Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.09.16 12:23:00 - [36] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Mashie Saldana If Amarr is so badly broken, why am I crosstraining for an Absolution right now? I think only you know the answer to that. It's a pointless question imo. It doesnt benefit the thread in any way except to perhaps hint that you disagree with Amarr needing a buff. If that's what you mean, say it. To be honest, every race want their stuff buffed until they have the I-win button. Before the nos nerf I didn't hear any Curse pilots complain about Amarr ships being crap.
Bon Hedus Amarr O.E.C Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.09.16 12:26:00 - [37] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Mashie Saldana If Amarr is so badly broken, why am I crosstraining for an Absolution right now? I think only you know the answer to that. It's a pointless question imo. It doesnt benefit the thread in any way except to perhaps hint that you disagree with Amarr needing a buff. If that's what you mean, say it. To be honest, every race want their stuff buffed until they have the I-win button. Before the nos nerf I didn't hear any Curse pilots complain about Amarr ships being crap. No, you didn't hear any Curse pilots complaining about the Recons. However there are pages on pages of Amarr pilots complaining about the other Amarr ships (Other than the Absolution. The arguments brought up in the previous pages are quite valid. A boost has been promised for Amarr, and it really hasn't happened as yet. Amarr was undoubtedly the best before the Heatsink stacking nerf of way back... now any pvper worth his or her salt will tank for Amarr. Just open your eyes to the rest of the ships. There are issues there that need to be addressed. 1 good ship (absolution) out of all of Amarr's fleet does not mean that the rest are ok. -------------------------------------- Heavy Lag Spike II belonging to EvE Cluster Node #0815 hits your Connection, wrecking your latency to 998ms
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2007.09.16 12:54:00 - [38] Amarr MK.II Reduce fitting requirements of all laser turrets a little(shave off 50-75 powergrid on lets say mega pulses, 200 or more for Tachyons Make sure we dont have more highslot then turrets, replace said spare highslot with 1 extra midslot, exceptions of this rule are Ewar ships like the Arbitrator. Cut laser cap usage by 40% flat out, replace the bonus with a 10% armor hp per lvl bonus on all ships that does not have an armor related bonus. Exceptions to this rule are for example the Arbitrator. Replace all Rate of Fire bonuses with Direct Damage bonuses. New armageddon: 7x Highs (7x turrets) 4x midslots 8x lowslots 5% bonus to laser damage per level. 10% bonus to armor hp per level Give the Zealot +15tf CPU and another Turret slot to bring it in line with other "Gank HAC's" OR give it a 40-50 m3 dronebay, however id still prefer the extra turret as it feels more amarr style , even tho the dronebay would be better. Problem solved, no need for explosive crystals or anything. Is this gonna unscrew amarr? Yes. Is this gonna make them overpowerd compared to lets say gallente/minmatar? no. Is there no reason whatsoever NOT to bring in similar changes? NO. There was a thread a while ago that suggested similar changes to amarr ships. I liked it alot but i cant find it. -YOU ARE NOW READING MY SIGNATURE- EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Arachidamia The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:16:00 - [39] Originally by: mama guru Cut laser cap usage by 40% flat out I'm against that. If you cut fitting reqs and cap use.. you're making lasers like hybrids. Better to keep the heavy fitting reqs and cap use, and instead buff the damage (types). Imho lasers should be a pain to fit and fuel with cap... but their damage output should be the highest to balance that out. And right now their realistic DPS is rather low...
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:25:00 - [40] Originally by: Arachidamia Originally by: mama guru Cut laser cap usage by 40% flat out I'm against that. If you cut fitting reqs and cap use.. you're making lasers like hybrids. Better to keep the heavy fitting reqs and cap use, and instead buff the damage (types). Imho lasers should be a pain to fit and fuel with cap... but their damage output should be the highest to balance that out. And right now their realistic DPS is rather low... That wont fix the problem, the problem is simple. amarr does not live up to their intended design unless it is to be the worst race when it comes to fittings and cap efficiency. I dont want explosive damage on lasers, I want them to last longer and be a tiny bit easier to fit. That way amarr can get a bonus that is actually useful -YOU ARE NOW READING MY SIGNATURE- EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Fon Revedhort Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:27:00 - [41] Originally by: Kirov VIII Quote: People say that beams are too hard to fit and in general, I agree. You have modifier only ONE BEAM turret ! Nope! They've boosted pulses tracking by 25% and rendered quad light beams to be absolutely useless. That's how CCP addressed beams ---
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:46:00 - [42] Originally by: Mashie Saldana If Amarr is so badly broken, why am I crosstraining for an Absolution right now? Cos you've been suckered! The ship is great but the weapons are what let it down. Only by training lvl5 Command ships can you actually match the damage done by many other ships. Adding specialiszed laser skills to get the most out of them is extremely time consuming. Even a Drake can deal more damage with specialized missile skills than an energy weapon Absolution with equally specialized energy weapon skills. The only thing that strengthens the Absolution against the Drake is the ROF bonus and its resists. But this small difference between a Tier3 BC and a Command ship is pitifully small compared to the cost difference. I actually started training hybrid to put rails on most of my Amarr ships because energy weapons suck. --
Ather Ialeas Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:50:00 - [43] Originally by: Fon Revedhort Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 16/09/2007 18:33:32 Originally by: Kirov VIII Quote: People say that beams are too hard to fit and in general, I agree. You have modifier only ONE BEAM turret ! Nope! They've boosted pulses tracking by 25% and rendered quad light beams to be absolutely useless. That's how CCP addressed beams Nevermind they've ignored cap use and fitting issues. We are amarr and can wait another year or so And then we'll face a damage mods CPU use 'fix' Do remember though that it was what, 1..1+ year ago when Pulse tracking was hit hard by the nerfbat, I think it was something like 30-50% decrease. -
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:57:00 - [44] Originally by: mama guru Things I would sell my own mother for this.
Ira Theos	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:11:00 - [45] I totally endorse all the criticisms of CCP's stupidity with regard to the Amarr imabalance. Lasers need to be removed from the weapons categuory since a basic requirement of a "weapon" is that it must do damage to the target. Lasers are "light show" displays, not weapons.
Ira Theos	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:16:00 - [46] Originally by: annoing If I had known Amarr was so crap I would have never created this amarr character all those years ago. Cant fight and tank at the same time. Lasers are weak. Cap usage is perversly way out of synch. More armour? Big deal, means nothing if you cant tank it. I fly Ravens now because I can simply run 4 shield hardeners and 7 launchers and NEVER run out of cap when I rat. As for PVP I have to use covert or stealth Aamarr because you cant battle in anything else for fear of cap drain. Never mind, instead of fixing the game and equalising the races, we can walk around stations, order drinks and choose new clothes.. how exciting is that yawn PS: CCP GM's etc never read this stuff, and if they do they give a wry smile and forget it instantly. Developers dont develop, bug hunters dont hunt, customer service ignores customers and we all ignored. Welcome to Eve. ************************* I totally endorse this player's viewpoint.
Mithfindel Amarr Ordo Crucis Argenteus	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:47:00 - [47] Edited by: Mithfindel on 16/09/2007 19:50:23 I understand that a long, long time ago in a galaxy far away (EVE Cluster) there used to be really good lasers. However, they were used by other races, too, so they were hit by the nerfbat. The result is known by scholars around the universe as "vae Amarria", or more commonly, "the Amarrian whine". Not to be confused with the fine spiced wines of the Kador region. Suggestion for (possible) balancing: - Raise laser damage by across the board. This will act as a replacement for the ship bonus. - Raise all laser PG requirements across the board. This will mean that they'll become impossible/insane to fit, except that... - Change the Amarr cap bonus to be a cap and pg bonus for laser weapons. (Edit: Two bonuses in one, but to the same thing - so ships still obey the "two bonuses" rule.) Problems: - Abaddon does not have the cap bonus. Perhaps replace its damage bonus with the cap/fitting bonus? Then again, it would change the ship completely. Making it have the huge PG required to fit its arsenal would be, again, troublesome. - Low-skilled characters get nerfed. Though, then there'd be some real use for the low-end weapons, as well. - "too powerful" whines should be generally set aside as the main damage type (EM) is very easy to tank (specially if you tank armour, but EM hardener and a few Invulnerability fields make wonders for the shield tanks, as well). Example values: - All laser damage +25% - All laser PG requirements +50% - Amarr ship's bonus -10 % to laser cap usage, -7.5 % to laser PG usage With skills at level 5, this would mean that the cap usage of lasers is the same as now, but they do 25% more damage and their PG usage is modified by +50% and -37.5% to the modified value, total change of 150*(100-37.5)%=93.75%.
Jangizal Caldari NYIT Gangstaz SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:51:00 - [48] I fly Caldari and Gallente ships, so naturally I would be biased in favor of these two races, but I do agree that the Amarr race needs some help. Blog.
Grez Minmatar Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:53:00 - [49] Been waiting for years. Still no change - I wouldn't get your hopes up. ---
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.16 19:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: mama guru Things I would sell my own mother for this. I'm already trying to sell your mother for this. Hell, I'll throw my own mother into the mix. A two-for-one mother enslavement deal. D to the C's mom plus mine, for the cheap price of Amarr ship mods that don't suck and lasers that aren't facking boat anchors! It's highway robbery, and we'll thank you for it!
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.09.16 20:35:00 - [51] The simplest fix would be to increase laser damage across the board. If you take away the laser cap use bonus from the ships, you'd have other races using lasers.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.09.16 21:15:00 - [52] Originally by: mama guru Amarr MK.II Good GOD YES PLEASE - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.09.16 22:07:00 - [53] Originally by: Amarria Black I'm already trying to sell your mother for this. Hell, I'll throw my own mother into the mix. A two-for-one mother enslavement deal. D to the C's mom plus mine, for the cheap price of Amarr ship mods that don't suck and lasers that aren't facking boat anchors! It's highway robbery, and we'll thank you for it! Did you get any offers so far? If not, I'll throw in my sister and an almost-new pair of sneakers.
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2007.09.16 22:20:00 - [54] I would like to see more damage and more HP on amarr ships. and the apoc needs a smartbomb or mining bonus... ------------- fixed for greater eve content
Liet Traep Minmatar Black Lance Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.16 22:53:00 - [55] I personally would love the cap use bonus dropped for a nos bonus. Right now you can only nos down to your cap state. what if amarr ships got a bonus letting them nos an enemy closer to 0% based on skill level. Just an idea.
Sleepkevert Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.16 23:03:00 - [56] Edited by: Sleepkevert on 16/09/2007 23:10:47 I have always used rails / artys on my prophecy. What are these lasers you speak of? And why should you use them on ships that only get 10% reduction in cap for lasers, if you can use guns that use no cap at all? So, when i'm using artys anyway, why not train for a race that has bonuses to them? Ah right, i already did! The only good reason there is to lasers, is that they don't use any ammo. This can be quite an advantage while ratting in 0.0 or something, but other then that, it's really no deal to by some cheap ammo (imagine the amount of shells you can shoot with the amount of money you pay for a crystal) Now, name me one, just one, good reason to use lasers over other races turrets on 50% of the amarr boats that only have the x% of cap reduction bonus on turrets... By not using them i can free up at least 3 slots on my NPCing geddon, because of the amount of t2 cap relays and t2 cap rechargers needed to perma run the damn lasers... Sign my sig
Some Caldari Caldari Shadow Warrioz	Posted - 2007.09.17 00:08:00 - [57] Maybe make it so that lasers still take the same amount of cap but have a modifier that reduced cap use by 50% when fitted to amarr hulls so effectively freeing up amarr ships to have a second proper bonus while making it undesirable to use lasers with other races. That or have it as a static bonus like the blockade runners +2 warp strength. ------------ Originally by: Banana Torres Gurls are overrated, they nick your money and hurt your ears. Just so you can have limited access to their soft and squishy bits.
Trishan Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.09.17 00:12:00 - [58] Originally by: Sleepkevert Edited by: Sleepkevert on 16/09/2007 23:10:47 I have always used rails / artys on my prophecy. What are these lasers you speak of? And why should you use them on ships that only get 10% reduction in cap for lasers, if you can use guns that use no cap at all? Probably because an unbonused ship with arty is going to put out some pitiful dps.
Neo Rainhart Caldari Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2007.09.17 09:20:00 - [59] Edited by: Neo Rainhart on 17/09/2007 09:23:14 Originally by: Bon Hedus Originally by: Mashie Saldana If Amarr is so badly broken, why am I crosstraining for an Absolution right now? Because the Absolution is a great ship. Why don't you cross train to fly the Curse/Pilgrim, now that NOS has been nerfed. How about Training to fly the Amarr BS's with all the issues that have been brought up? How about Training to fly the Guardian? Or how about the Amarr EW ships? (oh wait, we don't have those) Cross training to fly 1 ship means absolutely jack. Try the rest of the ships in the Amarr line. Im crosstraining for an absolution and the amarr battleships atm.. When i finish t2 megapulses and amarr BS 5 im gonna have the time of my life flying gank abaddons and geddons Nothing to complain about tbh, amarr is a kickass race. And i consider the abaddon a good solopwnmobile (nos nerf confirms)
Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.17 09:58:00 - [60] I fly Amarr. Amarr are fine. Crosstrain some other races, m'dears. Every race has their drawbacks and strengths. Amarr actually rule pretty hard. --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!

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