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Robdon	Posted - 2007.09.16 13:39:00 - [1] Hi, I have just got myself a Covert Op ship (Buzzard, with a Covert Ops Cloak II). I've been fitting it out for getting me out of a warp bubble if I jump into a system and I'm right in the middle of a bubble (ie double click, MWD & Cloak). So my MWD top speed is now > 2000. However, how do you cope with if you are warping to a gate, and you hit a bubble at the gate, and you end up 20km away from the gate. What is the best 'defence' against this? I'm thinking the same aproach, Aproach gate, MWD and cloak to get 1 MWD cycle, and once near the gate uncloak and jump??? Any suggestions on what is the best method?? Also, what rigs would people suggest for Covert Ops? If I'm just snooping around rather than any combat. Thanks, Rob D.
Skiving Larry	Posted - 2007.09.16 14:32:00 - [2] Edited by: Skiving Larry on 16/09/2007 14:32:20 Quote: What is the best 'defence' against this? Scan the gate before warping to it. (and go somewhere else if you don't like the chances of running the blockade)
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.09.16 14:35:00 - [3] probably some kind of astronautic rig, the one that enhances warp speed, if you want to scout ahead and move unmolested otherwise the recon probe timer reduction rig is ideal for covert ops as well fyi: unlike mobile disruptors, interdictor spheres cant be scanned via directional scan nor do they have an overview category ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2007.09.16 14:40:00 - [4] I think the best defense in that case is to warp in from a slightly different angle, so youll land far enough away from any campers that they wont notice youre there. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Reem Fairchild	Posted - 2007.09.16 14:42:00 - [5] Originally by: Skiving Larry Scan the gate before warping to it. (and go somewhere else if you don't like the chances of running the blockade) This. An interceptor can do it without much of a problem, but in a covert ops I would warp to something that is within 14 au of the gate, scan the gate, and hold off if there's a strong camp there. If I had to go through though, I'd probably warp to the gate cloaked (but not straight from gate to gate, you have to get a different angle) and try to navigate my way to the gate while cloaked.
Skiving Larry	Posted - 2007.09.16 14:48:00 - [6] Edited by: Skiving Larry on 16/09/2007 14:48:26 Quote: fyi: unlike mobile disruptors, interdictor spheres cant be scanned via directional scan nor do they have an overview category This is not true, you just need to turn of the overview settings option on the scanner. (the bit about then not having a category is true)
Flaming Candle	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:00:00 - [7] Patience! move slowly to the gate, carefully avoiding the hostiles, remember that they will uncloak you if they get within 2k of you.
Robdon	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:26:00 - [8] ok, thanks for all the info guys... I'll practice a bit first, then give it a go :)
Skiving Larry	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:43:00 - [9] Oh, in case you don't know this one... If you need to scan a gate that's out of scan range from a warpable object you can warp part way by running your cap down very low before you warp . You might want to practice on something non-fatal tough
SoldierOfFortune Caldari Sheepish R and D	Posted - 2007.09.16 16:25:00 - [10] just warp in @ 100 cloaked from an odd angel and take a look lol then plan your escape ^^ "RAWR" is my keyword, and also my second language
Robdon	Posted - 2007.09.18 14:59:00 - [11] Hi, again. Just wanted to ask if you think its worth fitting an 'ECM Burst II' module. I'm planning to be cloaked most of the time, but wouldnt it be good to fit one of these to help drop drop locks on any people who target locks me, so that I can then cloak?? Or would most gatecampers have very high senor strengths, therefor it wont work most of the time? Thanks, Rob.
William Alex Viscosity	Posted - 2007.09.18 15:02:00 - [12] Originally by: SoldierOfFortune just warp in @ 100 cloaked from an odd angel and take a look lol then plan your escape ^^ good advice
34534bobalt3244	Posted - 2007.09.18 15:39:00 - [13] Bring Mothership. Bring Titan. ???? Profit!
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.18 15:43:00 - [14] Why oh Why did CCP stop corpses from decloaking you.. but still allow them to prevent you from cloaking... I got popped at a bubble camp in a stealth bomber cause I couldn't cloak due to biomass being w/i 2km of me. Any covops or cloaker that tries to get past a gate camp better hope there is no corpses near their jumpin point. Cause if there is.. you can forget about cloaking.. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.18 17:29:00 - [15] If you're in a Covops, you are already cloaked even if you hit the bubble. Getting out is the trick without getting too close to the campers. No need to hit MWD, they won't know you are there unless something decloaks you in the bubble. I'm not sure if the bubble itself will decloak you but I doubt it. Just look around and set a course out of the bubble, even if it's away from the gate. Once you can warp again, go to planet or other warpable object and try again from a different direction, preferably so you drop out of warp on the other side of the gate. Unless they have bubbles all around the gate, you'll get past. Even with the whole gate bubbled, you should find a route to the gate through holes in the defence. It would take a lot of ships to cover the whole gate so that nothing can find a 4km+ gap to squeeze through. --
Worsley	Posted - 2007.09.18 17:40:00 - [16] Edited by: Worsley on 18/09/2007 17:41:02 Edited by: Worsley on 18/09/2007 17:40:44 ^^^^^^^ Drizit has the answer. If you hit the bubble you are still cloaked. you do not (and can not) hit the mwd. You just sneak out, warp somewhere else to give you a different angle to the gate and then warp to the gate (or just head for the gate once out of the bubble). Problem solved.
the'internet is'for'porn	Posted - 2007.09.18 18:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Erotic Irony fyi: unlike mobile disruptors, interdictor spheres cant be scanned via directional scan nor do they have an overview category Wrong. You can indeed see warp disrupt probes on your scanner. To the OP: Cloak does not work inside the warp disruption or mobile disrupter bubble. Do a drained cap warp (warp, cancel warp with ctrl+space then repear until you have not enough cap to make it all the way) then scan the gate at 30 degrees. If there is a bubble and it's not a mobile warp bubble then hammer than make full speed towards the gate, hammer the scan button, and when the bubble disappears warp like your life depends on it. FYI: none of this will help you if there is a bubble up on the _other_ side of the gate. In that case the best bet is to make sure you are very zippy and hope you do not get webbed and can mwd out of scramble range. One last bit of advice, You can not avoid losing your covops. It will happen. If you can not afford to lose your cocps then don't use it :-)
Reem Fairchild	Posted - 2007.09.18 19:00:00 - [18] Originally by: the'internet is'for'**** To the OP: Cloak does not work inside the warp disruption or mobile disrupter bubble. They most definitely do work inside bubbles.
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.18 19:24:00 - [19] Cloaks do work in bubbles. If it is a large bubble you will have to find a way to the gate without getting within 2000 of something. If it is med or smaller you can find an object not in line with the bubble and warp around it. Warping to 100 will likely pull you into a bubble if it is large or you are in line. If you watch a gate often it is good to have a SS 400 or so away from it. That way you can warp to it without getting caught in any bubble and can still see objects near the gate on overview. If you jump into a large bubble align to the closest point out, hit mwd, then cloak and warp as soon as you are out of the bubble. If they have a nanno ship your prolly gonna die anyway. Certainty of death...small chance of success...what are we waiting for? - Gimli
the'internet is'for'porn	Posted - 2007.09.19 20:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: the'internet is'for'**** To the OP: Cloak does not work inside the warp disruption or mobile disrupter bubble. They most definitely do work inside bubbles. New to me. Every time I've warped to a bubble I was decloaked by the bubble.
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.09.19 21:02:00 - [21] Originally by: the'internet is'for'** Originally by:** Reem Fairchild Originally by: the'internet is'for'**** To the OP: Cloak does not work inside the warp disruption or mobile disrupter bubble. They most definitely do work inside bubbles. New to me. Every time I've warped to a bubble I was decloaked by the bubble. You were decloaked by passing something within 2k, it wasn't the bubble that decloaked you. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map: Keeping Down The Clone Business Since 2007AD
DaveW Caldari South Park Development	Posted - 2007.09.19 21:04:00 - [22] If it's a well traveled route take the time to set BM's 200 KM above or below the gate. Jump to them, if the gate is clear you should be able to warp to the gate with the 'approach' option. If it's camped , just move in slow from you location. --------------------------------------------------- "If you can't stand the heat..., stay out of the Kitchen."
Tryptic Photon Gallente Asgard Protectorate Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.09.19 21:07:00 - [23] Originally by: the'internet is'for'**** New to me. Every time I've warped to a bubble I was decloaked by the bubble. A little while back I was keeping an eye on a gate camp in my covops. I warped off to check something, and came back a minute later but during that time a dictor had bubbled the gate. I was zoomed out so far I didn't notice I had been sucked into the bubble. For about 10 minutes I sat there doing stuff in corp chat not realizing I was inside the camp. Getting ready to leave I clicked on the show-ship icon and suddenly there was my cloaked ship sitting right between two red battleships inside the bubble. They were both about 5km away, I sheepishly eased my ship out of the camp and jumped through the gate.
Reem Fairchild	Posted - 2007.09.19 21:25:00 - [24] Originally by: the'internet is'for'** Originally by:** Reem Fairchild Originally by: the'internet is'for'**** To the OP: Cloak does not work inside the warp disruption or mobile disrupter bubble. They most definitely do work inside bubbles. New to me. Every time I've warped to a bubble I was decloaked by the bubble. It's a common gate camp tactic to make a jet can (dropping a single unit of ammo or something) at the edge of the bubble, aligned with the gate you expect people to be warping in from. Cloaker warps in and is decloaked on arrival. That's why you should warp to a planet or something first then warp towards the gate, so you come in from a different angle.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 22:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Tryptic Photon Originally by: the'internet is'for'**** New to me. Every time I've warped to a bubble I was decloaked by the bubble. A little while back I was keeping an eye on a gate camp in my covops. I warped off to check something, and came back a minute later but during that time a dictor had bubbled the gate. I was zoomed out so far I didn't notice I had been sucked into the bubble. For about 10 minutes I sat there doing stuff in corp chat not realizing I was inside the camp. Getting ready to leave I clicked on the show-ship icon and suddenly there was my cloaked ship sitting right between two red battleships inside the bubble. They were both about 5km away, I sheepishly eased my ship out of the camp and jumped through the gate. That must have been a brown-trousers moment. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:10:00 - [26] Originally by: Reem Fairchild It's a common gate camp tactic to make a jet can (dropping a single unit of ammo or something) at the edge of the bubble, aligned with the gate you expect people to be warping in from. Cloaker warps in and is decloaked on arrival. That's why you should warp to a planet or something first then warp towards the gate, so you come in from a different angle. Wasn't this fixexd in the recent patch.. cans, corpses and wrecks no longer uncloak you... However they DO still prevent you from cloaking ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:14:00 - [27] Originally by: Illyria Ambri cans, corpses and wrecks no longer uncloak you... Nope. All still should decloak you. It has to do with your transition from warp to real space, and whether you're already within 2km of the object. Happens all the time with gates, where you land @ 1500m, but are still cloaked. You can go right up to 0m and stay cloaked, but if you make physical contact with the gate or a new object comes within 2000m you're gone. Best tactic to avoid camps on your out gates is to scan before you warp in. ALWAYS scan if there's a neutral in local. Don't even take the chance. If there's no celestial object within scan range of the gate in question, simply warp, stop your warp, warp and stop your warp until your cap is empty. you should then be able to warp a fraction of the distance. Repeat until you're within 14AU @ scan at 5 degrees.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:27:00 - [28] On heavily travelled routes, try dropping a bookmark a few hundred kilometers off the gate and warp to it first if you large quantities of unfriendly types in the system. Given that the role of a covops is to provide juicy intel to its friends, your next step should be to sit there, watch them, and acquire a full list of which pilots are flying which ships. on the other hand, if you're flying solo, just figure out an alternate route. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:29:00 - [29] Originally by: Stitcher On heavily travelled routes, try dropping a bookmark a few hundred kilometers off the gate and warp to it first if you large quantities of unfriendly types in the system. Large bubbles will almost certainly pull you in from these bookmarks. Scan from off-grid. Always safer. Also. Not "large quantities" but ANY quantity. All it takes is one sneaky bugger in a sabre and you and your cargo are screwed.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:35:00 - [30] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Stitcher On heavily travelled routes, try dropping a bookmark a few hundred kilometers off the gate and warp to it first if you large quantities of unfriendly types in the system. Large bubbles will almost certainly pull you in from these bookmarks. Scan from off-grid. Always safer. Also. Not "large quantities" but ANY quantity. All it takes is one sneaky bugger in a sabre and you and your cargo are screwed. I did say a few HUNDRED. I've never been pulled off my overwatch points, ever. The trick is to put them a ways off to either side of the gate, not in the line you'll be warping along. if your warp tunnel doesn't come withing 100km of the bubble, you're safe from being pulled in. Off-grid is nice, but the one thing it doesn't allow you to do is report back to your FC and tell him which name corresponds to what ship. My way allows the scout to give the FC enough info to pre-emptively call primary and secondary. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.20 03:38:00 - [31] I'll be suprised if the OP gets anything out of this thread, there are so many conflicting details. My credentials: Instructor for Agony Unleashed (over 1000 students taught), graduate of PvP-Covops and hundreds of hours in a covops frig. First off: Don't fit an MWD to your Covops. It nerfs your cap, so you can't warp as far. If you go into an enemy gatecamp and activate the MWD it will make your sig radius 5x larger, so they can lock you roughly 5x as fast. If they lock you, you die. I've lost several frigs this way. Use an AB instead. What is the best defence: Your scanner and tactical bookmarks. There's a free article on bookmarks on the Agony website in my sig. Make a set of tacticals where you commonly go. Once you warp to your tactical, scan the gate (with overview settings unchecked) and on 5 or 15 degree scan. If you see a warp disrupt probe, or mobile large bubble, you will be caught, consider another route. If you see a small, it will likely be aligned to another gate, so if you come in on another angle, you will probably be ok. If you see a medium, you might get through, or you might get caught (Mediums cannot cover the entire gate, due to the size of the gate). If you have to get through that gate: Come in at an angle that is not aligned (hopefully you made unaligned tacticals). If there is an interdictor (Sabre, Flycatcher, Eris, Heretic), there may be a bubble down there. If there is no bubble just yet, you can enter warp, and even if they pop a bubble while you are in warp, you will still land on the gate. If you see a bunch of debris on the scanner, you can add it to your overview, and hopefully avoid it, as you sneak your way to the gate. Rigs: Usually Gravity Capacitor rigs, so you can scan faster (for exploration or PvP). Otherwise, consider Auxiliary Thrusters (faster cloak speed), Low Friction Nozzle Joints (enter warp faster) or Polycarbons (less mass means you can warp farther, enter warp quicker, but not as fast as Low Frictions). Shameless plug: Agony teaches a PvP Covops class, but haven't had one recently due to the instructors being busy in RL. You may do well to take PvP Basic (Covers scanning), or PvP Wolfpacks (Covers bookmarks). Good Luck! --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com, "Veni, Vidi, Caedi"
chrisreeves Gallente Asgard Protectorate Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.09.20 06:32:00 - [32] A tip I have for ya is to get used to using the "solarsystem map" view of your map. Don't always warp straight gate to gate when there is anyone in local with you. Find a point that doesnt have a gate near it that you can warp to and then warp to your destination gate. When they know a cov ops is coming, dictors like to drop the bubble on the gate and then move to the edge of the bubble near to where they think you will be arriving at. That way they can decloak you if they are good. This also works well for avoiding the obvious placed mobile bubbles also (generally in line with another gate) ----------------- Originally by: kieron The Ibis was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.20 06:59:00 - [33] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Stitcher On heavily travelled routes, try dropping a bookmark a few hundred kilometers off the gate and warp to it first if you large quantities of unfriendly types in the system. Large bubbles will almost certainly pull you in from these bookmarks. Scan from off-grid. Always safer. Also. Not "large quantities" but ANY quantity. All it takes is one sneaky bugger in a sabre and you and your cargo are screwed. If you have bubbles that can pull me to the gate when I'm warping 200km above, below or to the side of the gate, can I buy some off you please? ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.09.20 07:33:00 - [34] Originally by: Dez Erichs I'll be suprised if the OP gets anything out of this thread, there are so many conflicting details. My credentials: Instructor for Agony Unleashed (over 1000 students taught), graduate of PvP-Covops and hundreds of hours in a covops frig. First off: Don't fit an MWD to your Covops. It nerfs your cap, so you can't warp as far. If you go into an enemy gatecamp and activate the MWD it will make your sig radius 5x larger, so they can lock you roughly 5x as fast. If they lock you, you die. I've lost several frigs this way. Use an AB instead. What is the best defence: Your scanner and tactical bookmarks. There's a free article on bookmarks on the Agony website in my sig. Make a set of tacticals where you commonly go. Once you warp to your tactical, scan the gate (with overview settings unchecked) and on 5 or 15 degree scan. If you see a warp disrupt probe, or mobile large bubble, you will be caught, consider another route. If you see a small, it will likely be aligned to another gate, so if you come in on another angle, you will probably be ok. If you see a medium, you might get through, or you might get caught (Mediums cannot cover the entire gate, due to the size of the gate). If you have to get through that gate: Come in at an angle that is not aligned (hopefully you made unaligned tacticals). If there is an interdictor (Sabre, Flycatcher, Eris, Heretic), there may be a bubble down there. If there is no bubble just yet, you can enter warp, and even if they pop a bubble while you are in warp, you will still land on the gate. If you see a bunch of debris on the scanner, you can add it to your overview, and hopefully avoid it, as you sneak your way to the gate. Rigs: Usually Gravity Capacitor rigs, so you can scan faster (for exploration or PvP). Otherwise, consider Auxiliary Thrusters (faster cloak speed), Low Friction Nozzle Joints (enter warp faster) or Polycarbons (less mass means you can warp farther, enter warp quicker, but not as fast as Low Frictions). Shameless plug: Agony teaches a PvP Covops class, but haven't had one recently due to the instructors being busy in RL. You may do well to take PvP Basic (Covers scanning), or PvP Wolfpacks (Covers bookmarks). Good Luck! All good except.... If you have trouble hitting your MWD and then cloaking before your covert can be targeted there is something wrong. You are correct that the sig increase allows people to target you more quickly, but there isn't a ship and load out in existence that can target you before you cloak if you do this properly. The MWD gives you the speed to get out of the vicinity of ships coming in to decloak you, and clear the bubble quickly of course. The more time you spend in the danger zone, the more likely your adversaries will stumble over you.
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.20 08:21:00 - [35] Originally by: Ranger 1 If you have trouble hitting your MWD and then cloaking before your covert can be targeted there is something wrong. You are correct that the sig increase allows people to target you more quickly, but there isn't a ship and load out in existence that can target you before you cloak if you do this properly. The MWD gives you the speed to get out of the vicinity of ships coming in to decloak you, and clear the bubble quickly of course. The more time you spend in the danger zone, the more likely your adversaries will stumble over you. I don't trust the latency in Eve. If there are fastlocking interceptors that could lock you in 2 seconds normally, the signature radius boost could put you in the 0.5 second territory. All fine and dandy if you live in the UK, but if you are in Australia it could be a serious problem. The AB is a compromise, because it doesn't have the cap or signature radius penalties. It's a less risky strategy. I recall hitting a bubble and sneaking around a Sabre pilot, and it took a couple minutes to dodge around corpses and cans to get to the gate without decloaking. I also recall losing a couple covops to fastlocking interceptors who were there for exactly that purpose (when I tried the MWD trick). --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com, "Veni, Vidi, Caedi"
Radioactive Babe Red Frost	Posted - 2007.09.20 09:11:00 - [36] Indeed, there are several ceptors which would be able to target you in less than a second .. (sensor boosted claw is fastest?) if their gang is big enough to cause lag you are toast if you try the mwd and cloak trick. I would agree with previous poster and say dont fit a mwd on a cov ops, if you are looking for something to fit, use an AB. What I see mostly is on jump in, is the ceptors zoom out to get the whole gate in view and burn in your general direction when you blip on the screen. I regularly see them with fighters assigned to increase the chance of getting within 2500m .... usually if entering a blockade or enemy station/outpost system Alas, poor risk vs reward, I knew you well
Anhtarus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.09.20 09:41:00 - [37] What do people mean by being 'pulled in' by a warp bubble? I am training for covops and recon ships and planning to checkout the big 0.0 and observe hostile gatecamps in general.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.20 10:20:00 - [38] Originally by: Anhtarus What do people mean by being 'pulled in' by a warp bubble? I am training for covops and recon ships and planning to checkout the big 0.0 and observe hostile gatecamps in general. If your warp tunnel passes within a certain distance (I think it's 100Km) of a warp disruptor bubble's boundary, you'll be "pulled in" to the bubble when you arrive - you'll wind up warping into the bubble, and not arriving at your intended destination. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:09:00 - [39] And don't forget that a smart bombing battleship (or even mothership!) on the gate is practically instant death for a covert ops ship and your pod.
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.20 15:52:00 - [40] Originally by: Anhtarus What do people mean by being 'pulled in' by a warp bubble? I am training for covops and recon ships and planning to checkout the big 0.0 and observe hostile gatecamps in general. There are three criteria for you to be caught in a bubble. 1. If your warp path lies on a line that passes through the bubble, you may be caught. 2. The bubble must be on the same grid as where your warp terminats. 3. The bubble must be dropped before you enter warp (or active, if you count mobile bubbles). Unless all the criteria are met, you won't get caught. Note: Eve is divided into roughly 1000km per side cubes. If it can appear on your overview, it's 'on grid'. If it appears on scanner, but not on grid, it's 'off grid' So, you can't put a bubble in the middle of space between gates and catch people. You can put a bubble 'in front' or 'behind' a destination gate, and grab people 100km away from the gate, so they have to either power through the bubble to get to the gate, or turn around and power to the gate. Dictor bubbles and large mobiles are typically placed directly on the gate. Another shameless plug: See the link in my sig for PvP training by Agony Unleashed. --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com, "Veni, Vidi, Caedi"
Cerias Shadows Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.20 17:23:00 - [41] I was just reading this thread thinking to myself that there was so much misinformation that I would be seriously confused about what was and was not true when it came to covops and bubbles. I think Dez saved this thread... but i've been known to be biased from time to time. ~Cerias Shadows ~Cerias Shadows
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:41:00 - [42] If there is a bubble on the grid you are warping to, and your warp vector intersects with the edge of the bubble, you will leave warp at the bubble edge. If you are in a heavy ship, you will also drift into the bubble. A bubble does not decloak you, but the object at the centre of the bubble will (e.g. the bubble generator, or the warp disrupt probe). Often there's litter on the edge of the bubble, which will decloak you though. (this is sometimes introduced deliberately). If you jump through a gate and find a 'dictor or large bubble on the other side, I find a MWD invaluable. It's possible to 'find' a cloaker, if you're sharp, because whilst you cannot lock them when they cycle cloak, it _is_ possible to get within 2km of them if you know what you're doing. Light the MWD on an odd vector, as you're cloaking htough (MWD on F1, cloak on F2, move, f1,f2) and you will be a couple of KM away, and safe unless you get unlucky. Also, have BMs >150km off vector, around every gate you use often. Warp to this, to see if it's clear (at 150, you can warp to the gate if it is). This is also useful for dodging interdictor bubbles. (Wait for the bubble to 'pop' and then warp) Crane needs more grid
Gort Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:46:00 - [43] Edited by: Gort on 20/09/2007 19:46:14 I think Dez saved it, too. G -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
Miss Mickey	Posted - 2007.09.20 20:07:00 - [44] To the MWD & Cloak trick: Try this, double click direction, hit cloak and THEN hit MWD. There's a short period of time AFTER the cloak icon goes green whereby you can activate a MWD. You'll need to practice, but it's easily done. In laggy situations, i'd take my chances moving cloaked and slow than not cloaked and fast with a huge target sign on my back!
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.09.20 20:13:00 - [45] Originally by: Dez Erichs First off: Don't fit an MWD to your Covops. It nerfs your cap, so you can't warp as far. That's just silly. If you fit no MWD, you'll struggle to get out of bubbles/back to the gates before ceptors decloak you. the MWD just about ensures your safety. The prattle about being locked 5x faster is not a factor. Nothing can lock you before you cloak unless you, as the covert pilot, **** up. @ Laboratus: You're assuming they only have 1 bubble on gate. It's not uncommon to deploy small/med bubbles beyond the large bubble near common tactical spots (above/below) to catch out coverts who think they're smart warping to an in-grid BM. Scan from off-grid, don't even take the chance.
Digital Anarchist	Posted - 2007.09.20 21:14:00 - [46] Drain your capacitor to get closer to an object without risking actually warping to it (a bubble at that object can suck you in it). How do drain Press warp, cancel warp (CTRL+SPACE), press warp, cancel warp ... until you have no more cap left. Then initiate a warp with less than the cap needed and you'll land somewhere closer to the target. Practice. Get your fix today
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.20 22:01:00 - [47] Edited by: Dez Erichs on 20/09/2007 22:03:12 Originally by: Elmicker That's just silly. If you fit no MWD, you'll struggle to get out of bubbles/back to the gates before ceptors decloak you. the MWD just about ensures your safety. The prattle about being locked 5x faster is not a factor. Nothing can lock you before you cloak unless you, as the covert pilot, **** up. OK, you go through a gate, and a dictor has dropped a probe roughly right on the gate. Dictor bubbles are about 20km, and you are roughly 15km to get to the gate. It's less than 5km from your position to the edge of the bubble, where you can warp away and continue on. Do you travel 5km to the edge of the bubble and get away, or to do struggle 15km to the gate, avoiding debris and enemy ships sitting at the gate, who will pursue if you jump through the gate? I don't know about you, but in my covops, I continue on my merry way. If I were in an interceptor I would likely power back to the gate, but it is a different ship. It's my opinion that it's safer (and more productive) to get out of the bubble and continue. As for large bubbles, I can count the times I've found myself in a large bubble on one hand. Half of those times there was noone there to bother me anyhow. As for the cap issues, my home system is 210 AU across. I fit a cap battery in order to make it across the system in one warp, and fit an AB so my cap isn't nerfed. I'm speaking from my experiences here, your mileage may vary. --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com, "Veni, Vidi, Caedi"
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.09.20 23:36:00 - [48] Originally by: Dez Erichs It's my opinion that it's safer (and more productive) to get out of the bubble and continue. Yes. i agree with you. Which is why you fit an MWD, so you can cover the 5km and be out of the bubble before they get anywhere close to decloaking you, instead of taking nearly a minute, as you would with a single cycle of an AB.
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.21 11:14:00 - [49] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Dez Erichs It's my opinion that it's safer (and more productive) to get out of the bubble and continue. Yes. i agree with you. Which is why you fit an MWD, so you can cover the 5km and be out of the bubble before they get anywhere close to decloaking you, instead of taking nearly a minute, as you would with a single cycle of an AB. Wait, you just recommended that you power back to the gate, and now you are backpeddaling? One cycle of the AB is more than enough to take you out of a dictor bubble. And it will take you far less than a minute. And it doesn't have the drawbacks of the MWD. In my classes, I don't recommend MWDs to new players because they take some finesse to use properly, while ABs are quite straightforward. I believe advising the OP to use an MWD is a bad idea. --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com, "Veni, Vidi, Caedi"
prsr Gallente JuBa Corp RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.21 12:51:00 - [50] Originally by: Dez Erichs In my classes, I don't recommend MWDs to new players because they take some finesse to use properly, while ABs are quite straightforward. I believe advising the OP to use an MWD is a bad idea. What finesse does it require? Your point about lag is moot since the only thing that matters is the time between the two module activation commands (mwd and cloak) which is not really affected by geographical distance. Now, if the node is lagging from all the people in the system, then you might have a point, since module activation gets all screwed up and there might be hundreds of instructions from other players for the server to process between your commands. But then, when the node lag strikes theres really nothing but luck that decides whether or not you will survive a jump-in. I use AB btw with a bunch of speed rigs myself btw. Can't use mwd due to other fitting reqs. -- .sig apathy ftw
Robdon	Posted - 2007.09.21 16:15:00 - [51] Hmmmm... What a lot of different answers! Looks like I'll have to give some a try and see what is true... However, it looks like Dez has the best/most thorough explanation. Thanks for all the input, Rob.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.09.21 16:53:00 - [52] Originally by: Dez Erichs Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Dez Erichs It's my opinion that it's safer (and more productive) to get out of the bubble and continue. Yes. i agree with you. Which is why you fit an MWD, so you can cover the 5km and be out of the bubble before they get anywhere close to decloaking you, instead of taking nearly a minute, as you would with a single cycle of an AB. Wait, you just recommended that you power back to the gate, and now you are backpeddaling? He didn't -recommend- going for the gate. He said "out of bubbles/back to the gates". There are times when going back would be the best option, though most of the time a CovOps is going to be perfectly capable of doing what it pleases. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
RC Denton	Posted - 2007.09.21 17:22:00 - [53] Easiest way to get out of warping into a gate bubble in a cov ops? Pull a 180, hit your mwd and cloak then warp back out the other direction. Then you can decide if you want to hit the gate at a long distance and fly in cloaked or just wait them out.
RC Denton	Posted - 2007.09.21 17:27:00 - [54] Originally by: Dez Erichs Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Dez Erichs It's my opinion that it's safer (and more productive) to get out of the bubble and continue. Yes. i agree with you. Which is why you fit an MWD, so you can cover the 5km and be out of the bubble before they get anywhere close to decloaking you, instead of taking nearly a minute, as you would with a single cycle of an AB. Wait, you just recommended that you power back to the gate, and now you are backpeddaling? One cycle of the AB is more than enough to take you out of a dictor bubble. And it will take you far less than a minute. And it doesn't have the drawbacks of the MWD. In my classes, I don't recommend MWDs to new players because they take some finesse to use properly, while ABs are quite straightforward. I believe advising the OP to use an MWD is a bad idea. You have more experience with it than I do but I've found that hitting your mwd on ctrl-f1 then cloak f3 using hotbuttons gives you the big speed boost and cloaks you so fast that it would be very very difficult for someone to lock you in that time. Granted the MWD increases your sig, but you are uncloaked for such a short period that you're not likely to get locked up. If they catch you uncloaked I think it's best just to hit the cloak and get some distance from them first.
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.22 09:07:00 - [55] Originally by: Robdon Hmmmm... However, it looks like Dez has the best/most thorough explanation. I r teh thred winnar! Fitting is personal choice. There's a lot of finesse to fly a covops well. --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com, "Veni, Vidi, Caedi"
Harm Gently Naughty 40 Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.22 14:12:00 - [56] iirc, bubble mechanics was changed a few patches back. They now catch you regardless of when you initiated warp.

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